Messages in AquaticLife group.

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52809	From: Grady Ferguson	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52812	From: Ray	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52813	From: Ray	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52814	From: William M	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52815	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52816	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Tetra Safe Start bacteria worked quite well
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52817	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52818	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52819	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52820	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: question about pairing JD's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52821	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52823	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52824	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tetra Safe Start bacteria worked quite well
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52825	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: question about pairing JD's
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52826	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52828	From: birddog541@yahoo.com	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: I have a new Verizon Yahoo! email address
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52829	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52830	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52831	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52832	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52833	From: Ray	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52834	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52835	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52836	From: Curtis Taylor	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52837	From: Ray	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52838	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52839	From: Ray	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52840	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Fotos of rocks and Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52841	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52843	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52844	From: kbgwp	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fotos of rocks and Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52845	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52848	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: PH value after one night .... amazing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52849	From: Ray	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: PH value after one night .... amazing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52850	From: Ray	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52851	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52852	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52853	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52854	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52855	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: feeding vegetables....how?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52856	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52857	From: Ray	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52858	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52859	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52860	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52861	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52862	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52863	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52864	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52865	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52866	From: Ray	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52867	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52868	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Live plants..... Sources for buying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52869	From: pam andress	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Live plants..... Sources for buying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52870	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52871	From: Showpup	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52872	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52873	From: Scott Holleman	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52874	From: Kyle	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52875	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52876	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52878	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52879	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52880	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52883	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52884	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52885	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52888	From: Ray	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52889	From: Ray	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52890	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52891	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52895	From: Ray	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52896	From: bamberggreenman	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52897	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52898	From: William M	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52899	From: Mike Kurliez	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: We Humans are Amphibians.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52900	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52901	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: water measurements still accurate with ich medication in tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52902	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52903	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52904	From: sh017127	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: red severum look for larger tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52905	From: Ray	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52906	From: phyllis	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: New to group, but not to fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52907	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52908	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52910	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52911	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52912	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52913	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52914	From: phyllis	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Intro- Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52915	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intro- Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52916	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52917	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52918	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intro- Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52919	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52920	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52921	From: Ray	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52922	From: Ray	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52923	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52924	From: Paul	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52925	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52926	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52927	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52928	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52929	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52930	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52931	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52932	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52933	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52934	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52935	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52936	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52937	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52938	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52939	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52940	From: emilynicole527	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: HELP!!! Albino African Dwarf Frog - can see red veins now??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52941	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52942	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Albino African Dwarf Frog - can see red veins now??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52943	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52944	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52945	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52946	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52947	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52948	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: quarantine/hospital tank - sick molly
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52949	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: storing filter media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52950	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52951	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52952	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Lifeguard from Tetra: experiences?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52953	From: haecklers	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52954	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52955	From: BRI	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52956	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52957	From: KristyLP	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52959	From: jshphoto@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52960	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52962	From: Bill	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52963	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52964	From: pam andress	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52965	From: haecklers	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52966	From: Brigitte Cherubini	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: hair algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52967	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52969	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52970	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52971	From: kbgwp	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52972	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52973	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52974	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52975	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52976	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: 2 mollies in hospital tank, info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52977	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52978	From: haecklers	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52979	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52980	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52981	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52982	From: haecklers	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52983	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52984	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52985	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52986	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52987	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52988	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Velvet ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52989	From: k chen	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52990	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52991	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52992	From: haecklers	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52993	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52994	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52995	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52996	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52997	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52998	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52999	From: Bill	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53000	From: Patrick	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53001	From: Bill	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53002	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53003	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53004	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53005	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53006	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53007	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53008	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53010	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53011	From: Bill	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53014	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53015	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53016	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53017	From: Catie Mccormick	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53018	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53019	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53020	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53021	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53022	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53023	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53024	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53025	From: haecklers	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53026	From: NA	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53027	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53028	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53029	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53030	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53031	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53032	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53033	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53034	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53035	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53036	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: 2 mollies in hospital tank, info
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53037	From: Jamie arthur	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53038	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53039	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53040	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53041	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53042	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53044	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53045	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53046	From: William M	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53047	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53048	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Velvet ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53049	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53050	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53051	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53052	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53053	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53054	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53055	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53056	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Bad form
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53057	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53058	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53059	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53060	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53061	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53062	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Bad form
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53063	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53064	From: Kevin Mintmier	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53065	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53066	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53067	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53068	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53069	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53070	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53071	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53072	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53073	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53074	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53075	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53077	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53078	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53079	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53080	From: Patrick	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53081	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53082	From: Ray	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53083	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53084	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53085	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53086	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53088	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53089	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53090	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53091	From: Ray	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53092	From: joe t	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53093	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Reminder, please trim your posts
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53094	From: Ray	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53095	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53096	From: houston@student.org	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53097	From: Rick Duffy	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53098	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53099	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53100	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53103	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53104	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53105	From: pam andress	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53106	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53107	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-----€¦â
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53108	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53109	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53110	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53111	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53112	From: Judy Moon	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53113	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53114	From: Jaiko	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53115	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53116	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53117	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53118	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53119	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53120	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53121	From: ScottW	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53122	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53124	From: k chen	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53125	From: Ray	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Subject Line/Thread Description
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53126	From: Judy	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Just learning about tropical fish (mostly bettas)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53127	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53128	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Just learning about tropical fish (mostly bettas)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53129	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53130	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53131	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53132	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53133	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53134	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53135	From: Ray	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53136	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53137	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed- Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53138	From: ScottW	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53139	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53140	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed- Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53141	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53142	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: - Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53143	From: Ray	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Chris; (was - Ray)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53144	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53145	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53146	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53147	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53148	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53149	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53150	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53152	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53153	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53154	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53155	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53156	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53157	From: Wendie	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53158	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53159	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53160	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53161	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53162	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53163	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53164	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Acclimating new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53165	From: Paul Gressling	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53166	From: William M	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53167	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53168	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53169	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53171	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53172	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53173	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53174	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53175	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53176	From: Wendie	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Kuhlis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53177	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53178	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53179	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: New Fish I am Interested In....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53180	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53181	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53182	From: Wendie	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53183	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53184	From: Ray	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53185	From: Ray	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53186	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Fish I am Interested In....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53187	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53188	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53189	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Fish I am Interested In....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53190	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53191	From: kerrysunuser	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: I have a pond full of healthy fish in Dunstable UK that need rehomin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53192	From: Martin VanderWal	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53193	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53194	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Black Algea - HELP!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53195	From: Wendie	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53196	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53197	From: Ray	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53198	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53199	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: inverts, fish, and buckets.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53200	From: Ray	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53201	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: inverts, fish, and buckets.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53202	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53203	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53204	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53205	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53206	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53207	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53208	From: Ray	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53209	From: Paul	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Anyone try the new Repashy fish foods?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53211	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53212	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53213	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53215	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn!/Trimming Plant Roots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53216	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53217	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53218	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53219	From: Ray	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53220	From: nancylowes@att.net	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: give away
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53221	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53222	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: spots of green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53223	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: spots of green algae
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53224	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: social behavior of fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53225	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53226	From: D and g	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: hi i have some rosy reds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53227	From: aasghari51	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53228	From: Ray	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53229	From: harry perry	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: test
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53230	From: s.lynda15	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53231	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53232	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53233	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: cycling without fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53234	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: adding sponge to biofilter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53235	From: haecklers	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: adding sponge to biofilter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53237	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53238	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: adding sponge to biofilter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53239	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: rocks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53240	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53241	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53242	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53243	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53244	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53245	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53246	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53247	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53248	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53249	From: jason	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: bichir help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53250	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53251	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53252	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53253	From: D and g F	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53254	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53255	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53256	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53257	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53258	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53259	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53261	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53262	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53263	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53264	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53265	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Correction -- rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53266	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53267	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53268	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53269	From: D and g	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53270	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Correction -- rainbow fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53271	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53274	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53275	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53276	From: Ray	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53277	From: Ray	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53278	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Black Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53279	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53280	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53281	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53282	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53283	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53284	From: k chen	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53285	From: Sriram Swaminathan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53286	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53287	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53288	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53289	From: joe t	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53290	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53291	From: D and g F	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53292	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53293	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53294	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53295	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53296	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53297	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53298	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53299	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53300	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53301	From: k chen	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53302	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use my wa
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53303	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53304	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53305	From: Ray	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53306	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53307	From: William M	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53308	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53309	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question - cycling a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53310	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53311	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question - cycling a tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53312	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53313	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53314	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53315	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53316	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois - dimension calculation
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53317	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Another option for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53318	From: k chen	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53319	From: Ray	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53320	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53321	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53322	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond//bureaucratic hoops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53323	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53324	From: mnsmileyss	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53325	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53326	From: Joseph F	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Methylene Blue & java moss?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53327	From: harry perry	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: John.......Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53328	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: John.......Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to c
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53329	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Aw Carp!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53330	From: William M	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond//bureaucratic hoops
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53331	From: Weims and Labs	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: full spectrum light for heating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53332	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: full spectrum light for heating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53333	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: full spectrum light for heating
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53334	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53335	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53336	From: D and g	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53337	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53338	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53339	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53340	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53341	From: D and g F	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53342	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53344	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53345	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53346	From: D and g F	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53347	From: Judy Moon	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53348	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53349	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53350	From: Ray	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53351	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53353	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53354	From: Dick Houston	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53355	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53356	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53357	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53358	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53359	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53360	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53361	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53362	From: Ray	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53363	From: joe t	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53364	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53365	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53366	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53367	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53368	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53370	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53371	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53372	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53373	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53374	From: vishwanath preetham	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53375	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53376	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53377	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53378	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53379	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53381	From: harry perry	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53382	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53384	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53385	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53386	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53387	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53388	From: Ray	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53389	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53390	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53391	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53392	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53393	From: kbgwp	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Freshwater live sand
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53394	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53395	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53396	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53397	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53398	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: how to clean gravel among plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53400	From: Ray	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53401	From: Ray	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53402	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53403	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to clean gravel among plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53404	From: Sue	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53405	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53406	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53407	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53408	From: William M	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53409	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53410	From: Ray	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53411	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53412	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53413	From: susan m.	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53414	From: Sue	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53415	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53416	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53417	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53418	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53419	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53420	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53421	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53422	From: William M	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53423	From: Gemi S	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53424	From: Ray	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53425	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53426	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53427	From: susan m.	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53428	From: kbgwp	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53429	From: m davis	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53430	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53431	From: susan m.	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53432	From: Gemi Sasson and Eric Brickson	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53434	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53435	From: Kevin	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: fish tanks in new hampshire
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53436	From: William M	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53437	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53438	From: joe t	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53439	From: kwondrash	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Reef capable LED lights?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53440	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53441	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53442	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Reef capable LED lights?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53443	From: Ray	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Aw Carp!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53444	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Unusual behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53445	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53446	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53447	From: Patrick	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53448	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53449	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53450	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53451	From: m davis	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53452	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53453	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53454	From: acousticwriter@aol.com	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Freshwater fish shows in the Midatlantic Area
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53455	From: joe t	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53456	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53457	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53458	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53459	From: redbarnfarms	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53460	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53461	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53462	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53463	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53464	From: m davis	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53465	From: m davis	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53466	From: Efrain Montanez	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53467	From: joe t	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53468	From: judymoon18	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53469	From: Tonya	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Free Fish to new home
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53470	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53471	From: Doug Forne	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53472	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53473	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53474	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53475	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53476	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: my small tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53477	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53478	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: my small tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53479	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53480	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Intake Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53481	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intake Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intake Basket
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53483	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53484	From: joe t	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53485	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53486	From: kwondrash	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Zoanthid corals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53487	From: joe t	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53488	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Help Required about Arowana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53489	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Zoanthid corals
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53490	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Help Required about Arowana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53491	From: Manuel Mejia	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53492	From: m davis	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Help Required about Arowana
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53493	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53494	From: houston@student.org	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53495	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53496	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53497	From: Vincent Hollands	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: How to rebuild a sump?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53498	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53499	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53500	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53501	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: How to rebuild a sump?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53502	From: William	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: posting?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53503	From: Joe Singing Wolf	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Senior Naturist in NE Oregon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53504	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: Senior Naturist in NE Oregon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53505	From: joe t	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Ray
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53506	From: dougforne@ymail.com	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: I am a happy man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53507	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: I am a happy man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53508	From: dougforne@ymail.com	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Danner Supreme Superking filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53509	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: I am a happy man
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53510	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53511	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53512	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53513	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53514	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53515	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53516	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53517	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53518	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53519	From: jackrobr	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Hey all.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53520	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53521	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53522	From: ken griffith	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53523	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53524	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Hey all.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53525	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53526	From: D and g	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: hi all
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53527	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53528	From: papsnpaints	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a small
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53529	From: littletanky	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Cobalt Aquatics
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53530	From: Ken Griffith	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53531	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53532	From: papsnpaints	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53533	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hey all.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53534	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53535	From: Patrick	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53536	From: William M	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53537	From: William M	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53538	From: Liz	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53539	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53540	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53541	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53542	From: Garoleen Wilson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53543	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53544	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53545	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53546	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53547	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53548	From: joe t	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53549	From: Noura T.	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53550	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53551	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53552	From: cobra427lady	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Welcome Back, Ray!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53553	From: Ray	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Welcome Back, Ray!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53554	From: Ray	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53555	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53556	From: Noura T.	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53557	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53558	From: John	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Finding Frogs in Greenville, SC
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53559	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53560	From: D and g	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53561	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53562	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53563	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53564	From: D and g F	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53565	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53566	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Is this a good liner??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53567	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Pond liner size
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53568	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53569	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53570	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53571	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53572	From: kbgwp	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53573	From: kbgwp	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Denitrification Podcast
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53574	From: D and g F	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53576	From: Weims and Labs	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53577	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53578	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/20/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53579	From: cobra427lady	Date: 5/20/2012
Subject: Re: Welcome Back, Ray!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53580	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/21/2012
Subject: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53581	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/21/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53582	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford [2 Attachments]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53583	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53584	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53585	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53586	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53587	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53588	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53589	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53590	From: Jason	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Hi everyone!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53591	From: Patrick	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53592	From: rachell7	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53593	From: joe t	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53594	From: CherylE	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53595	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53596	From: CherylE	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53597	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53598	From: rachell7	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53599	From: m davis	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53600	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53601	From: Patrick	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53602	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53603	From: k chen	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53604	From: rachell7	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53605	From: kezzabeast	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53607	From: m davis	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53608	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53609	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53610	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53611	From: m davis	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53612	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53613	From: kezzabeast	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53614	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53615	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53616	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53617	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53618	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53619	From: m davis	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53620	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53621	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53622	From: kezzabeast	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53623	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53624	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53625	From: m davis	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53626	From: weantdrive	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53627	From: rachell7	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53628	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: A very basic aquarium question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53629	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53630	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53631	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53632	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53633	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53634	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53635	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53636	From: k chen	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53637	From: k chen	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53638	From: rachell7	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53640	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53641	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53642	From: Patrick	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53643	From: William J. Scott	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53644	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53645	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53646	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53647	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Pond filter for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53648	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53649	From: m davis	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53650	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53651	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53652	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53653	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53654	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53655	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53656	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53657	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53658	From: Brian	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53659	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53661	From: m davis	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53662	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Look I found interesting opportunity...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53663	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Don't open this link.....Re: [AquaticLife] Look I found interesting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53664	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Do not open any link sent by me. Hi-jacked e-mail
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53665	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Trimming plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53666	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53667	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: fishless cycling - "nature's method"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53668	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: feeding betta in community tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53669	From: m davis	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53670	From: joe t	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53671	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53672	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: fishless cycling - "nature's method"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53673	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53674	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53675	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Does any one in this forum live In Israel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53676	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53677	From: William M	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53678	From: Patrick	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53679	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53680	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53681	From: Robert	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53682	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53683	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53684	From: rachell7	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Tired of replacing fish after a year or less. Suggestions anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53685	From: Evy	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53686	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53687	From: k chen	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53688	From: m davis	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53689	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53690	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53691	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53692	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53693	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53694	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53695	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Tired of replacing fish after a year or less. Suggestions anyon
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53696	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: chain stores
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53697	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53698	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53699	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: filter stop, bacteria ok?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53700	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Adding CO2 in tank - best method?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53701	From: Neener	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: filter stop, bacteria ok?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53703	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53704	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53705	From: freedom2m0soe	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, any tips!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53706	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53707	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53708	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, any tips!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53709	From: freedom2m0soe	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, thank you Dawn.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53710	From: Kiersten M	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53712	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53713	From: Kiersten	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53714	From: 'Dick Houston'	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53715	From: Kiersten	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53716	From: Kiersten M	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53717	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53718	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53719	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53720	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53721	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53722	From: yehezkal18	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Help!! Betta with fin rot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53723	From: m davis	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help!! Betta with fin rot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53724	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53725	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53726	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Help!! Betta with fin rot
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53727	From: reneap7040	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53728	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53729	From: c_chell24	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: African Dwarf Frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53731	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53732	From: yehezkal18	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53734	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53735	From: reneap7040	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: New
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53736	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53737	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53738	From: leehinckle@gmail.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53739	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53741	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53742	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53743	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53744	From: Paul	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: sodium thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53745	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Sodium Thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap wat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53746	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53747	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53748	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53749	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53750	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53751	From: mumof2_86	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53752	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53753	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53754	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53755	From: Brian	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53756	From: leehinckle@gmail.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53757	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: sodium thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap wat
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53758	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53759	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: JD fry die off
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53760	From: rustybar@sbcglobal.net	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: JD fry die off
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53761	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53762	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53763	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53764	From: m davis	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53765	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53766	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53767	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53768	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53769	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53770	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53771	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53772	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53773	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53774	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53775	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53776	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53777	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53778	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53779	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53780	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53781	From: Tonya	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53782	From: Tonya	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53783	From: Andy Mills	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53784	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53785	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53786	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53787	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53788	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53789	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53790	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53791	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53792	From: hrv_7103	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Fresh Water Aquarium Fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53793	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53794	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53795	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53796	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53797	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53798	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Plant Growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53799	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53800	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53801	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53802	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53803	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53804	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53805	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53806	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53807	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53808	From: harry perry	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53810	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53811	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Plant Growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53812	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53813	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53814	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53815	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53816	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53817	From: Kiersten M	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: tank devider?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53818	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53819	From: haliebackflips	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: batfish???
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53820	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53821	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: Harry.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the ta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53822	From: harry perry	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: John an Nora
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53824	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53825	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: Plant Growth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53826	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53827	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53828	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53829	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53830	From: mumof2_86	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53831	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: undergravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53832	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53833	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53834	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53835	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53836	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53837	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53838	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53839	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53840	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53841	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53842	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53843	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53844	From: m davis	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53845	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53846	From: m davis	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities and fish death camps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53847	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53848	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53849	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53850	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53851	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities. Less than 100 = not 100
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53852	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53853	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53854	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: need fish tank and coral!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53855	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: need fish tank and coral!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53856	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53857	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities and fish death camps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53858	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities. Less than 100 = not 100
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53859	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53860	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Water fleas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53861	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53862	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53863	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53864	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53865	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Lighting question... Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53866	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53867	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53868	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53869	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Digital Monitoring Device?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53870	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Lighting question... Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53871	From: Manuel Mejia	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Flourite & Flourish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53872	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53873	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53874	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53875	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Anyone from Illinois??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53876	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: segregated.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: segregated.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53878	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Anyone from Illinois area??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53879	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: segregated.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53880	From: kwondrash	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: keeping killies in c ommunity tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53881	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: keeping killies in c ommunity tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53882	From: Whey	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Fishing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53883	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fishing
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53884	From: johmanda	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53886	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: What Is The Best Aquarium Software??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53887	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53888	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53889	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: newbie
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53890	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: newbie - Dawn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53891	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: A New Book : Fauna Palaestina - Part 2. (July 2012)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53892	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Pair of Red Belly Piranhas Died :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53893	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Pair of Red Belly Piranhas Died :(
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53894	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Faded Color of Iridescent Shark / Blue Line Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53895	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: Faded Color of Iridescent Shark / Blue Line Shark
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53896	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53898	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53899	From: n9mxtham@gmail.com	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53900	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53901	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53902	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53903	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53904	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: School is in session.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53905	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53906	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53907	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53908	From: joe t	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53909	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53910	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53911	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53912	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53913	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53914	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53915	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53916	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Importance of basics......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53917	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53918	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53919	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Un-cycled tank.......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53920	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53921	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53922	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53923	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: O/T - New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53924	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: O/T - New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53925	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53926	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53927	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53928	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53929	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53930	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53931	From: Noura	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53932	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53933	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53934	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53935	From: Dawn Moneyhan	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53936	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53937	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53938	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Aquaticlife reply
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53939	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53941	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Miscarriage: was Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53942	From: pat6801	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really nee
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53943	From: Bill Marden	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53944	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? R...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53945	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53946	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53947	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53948	From: harry perry	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: John........Re: [AquaticLife] Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53949	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53950	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53951	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53952	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53953	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: A few questions from a new group member.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53954	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Re: A few questions from a new group member.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53955	From: harry perry	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Jennifer.....Re: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group memb
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53956	From: Noura	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Miscarriage: was Fish Abortion??!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53957	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53958	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53959	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Jennifer.....Re: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group memb
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53960	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53962	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53963	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53964	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53965	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53966	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53967	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53968	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53969	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53970	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53971	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53972	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53973	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53974	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group LET'S TRY AGAIN
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53975	From: k chen	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53976	From: rachell7	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53977	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53978	From: Amber	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53979	From: rachell7	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53980	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53981	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53982	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53983	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53984	From: Amber Larr	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53985	From: Reba	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Newbie to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53986	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53987	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53988	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53989	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53990	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53991	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53992	From: wieloszynski	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Frog Pond video
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53993	From: harry perry	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Paul....Re: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53994	From: joe t	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53995	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Paul....Re: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53996	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/9/2012
Subject: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53997	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53998	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53999	From: Brian	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54000	From: joe t	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54001	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54002	From: rachell7	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54003	From: Noura	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54004	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54005	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54006	From: Noura	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54007	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54008	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54009	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54010	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54012	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54014	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54016	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54019	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54020	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54021	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54022	From: joe t	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54025	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54026	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54027	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54028	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54029	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54030	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54031	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54033	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54035	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54036	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54037	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54038	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54039	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54040	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54041	From: jshsb86	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: 55 gallon South American
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54042	From: pam andress	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54043	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54044	From: Noura	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Outage! My fish are dying!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54045	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54046	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54047	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54048	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54049	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54050	From: Noura	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54051	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/27/2012
Subject: X2.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54052	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54053	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54054	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54055	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54056	From: m davis	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54057	From: harry perry	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Steve........SteveRe: [AquaticLife] Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54058	From: p.seadoo	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Danner Supreme Superking filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54059	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54060	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54061	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54062	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54063	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54064	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54065	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Flower Horn Escaping in Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54066	From: joe t	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: LIVE ROCK
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54067	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54068	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54069	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54070	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54071	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54072	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54073	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Quick update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54074	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54075	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54076	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Quick update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54077	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Questions and numbers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54078	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: MODERATE -- parkpac@earthlink.net posted to AquaticLife
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54079	From: Amber	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54080	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54081	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54082	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54083	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54084	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54085	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Thank You!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54086	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Questions and numbers
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54087	From: Amber Larr	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54088	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54089	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54090	From: ptimlin	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54091	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54092	From: joe t	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54093	From: Noura	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54095	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54096	From: Noura	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54097	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54098	From: Noura	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54099	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54100	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54101	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Water changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54102	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54103	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54104	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54105	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54106	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54107	From: erick blandino	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Too many tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54108	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54109	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54110	From: Noura	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Too many tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54111	From: erick blandino	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Too many tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54112	From: PAULA BROWN	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54113	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54114	From: Noura	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54115	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54116	From: Gary Palmer	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54117	From: Brian	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54118	From: Ava	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54119	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54120	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54121	From: harry perry	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Steve.........Re: [AquaticLife] Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54122	From: Noura	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54123	From: Patrick	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54124	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54125	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54126	From: Noura	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54127	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54128	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54129	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Confused
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54130	From: Ava	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Housing male Betta and African Dwarf Frog?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54131	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54132	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Housing male Betta and African Dwarf Frog?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54133	From: harry perry	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54134	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54135	From: aliengoddess	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54136	From: harry perry	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: : Rob..again....Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54137	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54138	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: My New Photos Uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54139	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54140	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54141	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54142	From: D and g F	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54143	From: Noura	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54144	From: m davis	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54145	From: m davis	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54146	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: I smell wood......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54147	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: pH changes
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54148	From: Noura	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54149	From: kwondrash	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54150	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54151	From: pam andress	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54152	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54153	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54154	From: kwondrash	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54155	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54156	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54157	From: harry perry	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Gail.....Re: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54158	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54159	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Gail.....Re: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54160	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54161	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54162	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54163	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54164	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54165	From: harry perry	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54166	From: rei_tremor	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54167	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54168	From: m davis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54169	From: m davis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54171	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54172	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54173	From: Brian Madera	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54174	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54175	From: Chris	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54176	From: joe t	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54178	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54179	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54180	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54181	From: Ava	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: African dwarf frog died
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54182	From: joe t	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54183	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: African dwarf frog died
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54184	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54185	From: Rusty Barfield	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54186	From: Noura	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54187	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54188	From: harry perry	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Al.........Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I smell wood......new homes and sor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54189	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54190	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2012, 1:0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54191	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Aquaria Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54192	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54193	From: Ava	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54194	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54195	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54196	From: Nancy L	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54197	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54198	From: Noura	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54199	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54200	From: Ava	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54201	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54202	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54203	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54204	From: Noura	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Ceramic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54205	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2012, 12:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54206	From: Aaron	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Happy TEN Year Anniversary!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54207	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Aquaria Plants
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54208	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Moving an 8 inch Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54209	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Moving an 8 inch Pleco
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54210	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54211	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54212	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54213	From: Amber	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Rainbow shark not doing well.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54214	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54215	From: Noura	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54216	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Rainbow shark not doing well.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54217	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54218	From: Reba	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Tiny White Dots in Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54219	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tiny White Dots in Water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54220	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54221	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54222	From: Noura	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54223	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Updates and a query.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54224	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54225	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54226	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54227	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54228	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54229	From: joe t	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54230	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54231	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54232	From: Noura	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54233	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Humming Water Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54234	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Humming Water Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54235	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54236	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54237	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54238	From: Noura	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54239	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54241	From: Noura	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54242	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: algae scrubber safe for acrylic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54243	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae scrubber safe for acrylic
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54244	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Test Kit Expiry Dates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54245	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Test Kit Expiry Dates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54246	From: Amber	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54247	From: Laurie	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: SPAM - do not open email with no subject
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54248	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54249	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Test Kit Expiry Dates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54250	From: Andy Mills	Date: 11/18/2012
Subject: Apple snail ban
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54251	From: Ava	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54252	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54253	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54254	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54255	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54256	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54257	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54258	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54259	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54261	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54262	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54263	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54264	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54265	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54266	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Need urgent help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54267	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Urgent!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54268	From: Ava	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54269	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: Need urgent help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54270	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54271	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54272	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54274	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54275	From: Noura	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54276	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54277	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA and another question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54278	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA and another question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54279	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54280	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54281	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54282	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54283	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54284	From: joebhoy80@yahoo.co.uk	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54285	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54286	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54287	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54288	From: Patrick	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54289	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54290	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54291	From: Patrick	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54292	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54293	From: joebhoy80@yahoo.co.uk	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54294	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54295	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54296	From: Patrick	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54297	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54298	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Byron....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54299	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2012
Subject: Byron....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54300	From: Noura	Date: 12/4/2012
Subject: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54302	From: Noura	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54303	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54304	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54305	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/7/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54306	From: goldmental	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54307	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54308	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54309	From: Rnp@comporium.net	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54310	From: Ava	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54311	From: Brian	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54312	From: harry perry	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: How about.........Re: [AquaticLife] Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54313	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54314	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54316	From: Jennifer Vaughan	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54317	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54318	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54319	From: Noura	Date: 12/13/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54320	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54321	From: Ava	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54322	From: Noura	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54323	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: Decisions, decisions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54324	From: Noura	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54325	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/22/2012
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54326	From: Paul	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Fluke-Like Creature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54327	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54328	From: annieg	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Hi I am new!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54329	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54330	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54331	From: Paul	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54332	From: rachell7	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54333	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54334	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54335	From: annieg	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54336	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54337	From: Reba	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Fancy Guppy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54338	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54339	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54340	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54341	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54342	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54343	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54344	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54345	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54346	From: weantdrive	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54348	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54349	From: harry perry	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54350	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54351	From: harry perry	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Aqueon pro 150 watt. Re: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recomm
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54352	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54353	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54354	From: rachell7	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54355	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54356	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54357	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54358	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54359	From: Patrick	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54360	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54361	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54362	From: Reba	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54363	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54364	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54365	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54366	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54367	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54368	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54369	From: Wendie	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54370	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54371	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54372	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54373	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54374	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54375	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54376	From: Ava	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Planted Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54377	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54378	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54379	From: kbgwp	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: Planted Tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54380	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54381	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54382	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54383	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: male betta help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54384	From: Ava	Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54385	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54386	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/8/2013
Subject: Re: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54387	From: Andy Mills	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: Long nose snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54388	From: Ava	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: Submerging magnet in aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54389	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: just an update.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54390	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54391	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Submerging magnet in aquarium?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54392	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54393	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: just an update.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54394	From: Ava	Date: 1/16/2013
Subject: Low-tech fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54395	From: angelasfeathers	Date: 1/16/2013
Subject: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54396	From: Noura	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54397	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54398	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54399	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54400	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54401	From: Patrick	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54402	From: joebhoy80	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Nitrite levels??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54403	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Stratifying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54404	From: deenerzz	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54405	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54406	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54407	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/18/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54408	From: Jessica Hardy	Date: 1/18/2013
Subject: New member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54409	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: Nitrite levels??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54410	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54411	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Stratifying
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54412	From: joebhoy80	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: Nitrite levels??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54413	From: Ava	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Battery operated LED clip on light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54414	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54415	From: jerryhutcherson	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Aquarium Products
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54416	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54417	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54418	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Video: Trust Accounts -Behavior Works (Dr Susan Friedman's narrates
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54419	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/23/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54420	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Wanted: Fish tank/Filter (Malibu)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54421	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Wanted: Fish tank/Filter (Malibu)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54422	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54423	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: here fishie fishie.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54424	From: Noura	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Re: here fishie fishie.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54425	From: joebhoy80	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54426	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: here fishie fishie.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54427	From: Ava	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: DIY 3D background with sandfall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54428	From: Ava	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54429	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54430	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54431	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54432	From: Noura	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54433	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54434	From: rene berghofer	Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: (no subject)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54435	From: annieg	Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54436	From: nicholassmirlis	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: raising bettas
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54437	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54438	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54439	From: Ray	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54440	From: Patrick	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54441	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54442	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54443	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54444	From: Amber	Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54445	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54446	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54447	From: Ray	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54448	From: Matthew	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54449	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54450	From: Amber Larr	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54451	From: reneap7040	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54452	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54453	From: vegeta38_99	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Snails and slime
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54454	From: Noura	Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54455	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 2/15/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54456	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54457	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54458	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54459	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54460	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54461	From: Ray	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54462	From: mark	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: FX5 Fluval media help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54463	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54464	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54465	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: FX5 Fluval media help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54466	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54467	From: Brian	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54468	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54469	From: Patrick	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54470	From: Ava	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54471	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54472	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54473	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54474	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54475	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54476	From: Amber Larr	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54477	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: FX5 Fluval media help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54478	From: Ray	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: decor
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54479	From: Patrick	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54480	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54481	From: deenerzz	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54482	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54483	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54484	From: Ava	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54485	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54486	From: reneap7040	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54487	From: goldmental	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54488	From: deenerzz	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54489	From: Ray	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54490	From: goldmental	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54491	From: Ray	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54492	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54493	From: Just Micky	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54494	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54495	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54496	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54497	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/3/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54498	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/4/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54499	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/4/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54500	From: oldies1433	Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Test? new addy
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54501	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54502	From: Des	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54503	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54504	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54505	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54506	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54507	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54508	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54509	From: Desire`	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54510	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54511	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54512	From: Ray	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54513	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54514	From: Desire`	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54515	From: cactus_t_2002	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54516	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54517	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54518	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54519	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54520	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54521	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54522	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54523	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54524	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: New to the group
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54525	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54526	From: Patrick	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54527	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54528	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54529	From: Desire`	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54530	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54531	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54532	From: Patrick	Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54533	From: Noura	Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54534	From: melanie199225	Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Help! Swim Bladder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54535	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: Help! Swim Bladder
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54536	From: A Comulada	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Hi, new group member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54537	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: Hi, new group member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54538	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: Hi, new group member
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54539	From: melanie199225	Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54540	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54541	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54542	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54543	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54544	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54545	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54546	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54547	From: Robert	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54548	From: Efrain Montanez	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54549	From: 708804@gmail.com	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54550	From: harry perry	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54551	From: deenerzz	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54552	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54553	From: 708804@gmail.com	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54554	From: Patrick	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54555	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54556	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54557	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54558	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54559	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54560	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54561	From: Ray	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54562	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54563	From: Patrick	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54564	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54565	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54566	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54567	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54568	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54569	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54570	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54571	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54572	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54573	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54574	From: Robert	Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Snail keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54576	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: A shell game.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54577	From: Robert	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54578	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54579	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54580	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: The finned crusaders.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54581	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54582	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54583	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54584	From: Patrick	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54585	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54586	From: hnorton74	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54587	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54588	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54589	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54590	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54591	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54592	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54593	From: Patrick	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54594	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54595	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54596	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54598	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54599	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54600	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54601	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54602	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54603	From: Georgene	Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54604	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54605	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54606	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54607	From: Georgene	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Too Many Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54608	From: SUZANNE WEBB	Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Too Many Mollies
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54609	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54610	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Brrrrrr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54611	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54612	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54613	From: rachell7	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54614	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54615	From: Robert	Date: 4/19/2013
Subject: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54616	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54617	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54618	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54619	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54620	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Using hot water tap
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54621	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Using hot water tap
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54622	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Using hot water tap
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54623	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54624	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54625	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54626	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54627	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54628	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54629	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54630	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54631	From: Dctrpangloss	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54632	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: [was ] Snails and hair - now goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54633	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish and salt (?); was: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54634	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54635	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54636	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54637	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54638	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: A life jacket for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: A life jacket for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54640	From: Ava	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54641	From: harry perry	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54642	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54643	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54644	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54645	From: Amber	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Ick on Tiger Barbs!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54646	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54647	From: Robert	Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54648	From: Ava	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Cost of a beginner salt water setup?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54649	From: harry perry	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Ava.....Re: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54650	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ava.....Re: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54651	From: hba1c98pump13	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54652	From: Amber Larr	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54653	From: harry perry	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: A beautiful documentory.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54654	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: Re: A beautiful documentory.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54655	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: Cost of a beginner salt water setup?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54656	From: hba1c98pump13	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54657	From: harry perry	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54659	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54660	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54661	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54662	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54663	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54664	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54665	From: Amber	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54666	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54667	From: Robert	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54668	From: pam andress	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54669	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54670	From: jaiko	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54671	From: aquaticjoy@...	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: A life jacket for goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54672	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54673	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54674	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up tw...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54675	From: pam andress	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54676	From: pam andress	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54677	From: janfuqua2004	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Decorative Barnacles in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54678	From: deenerzz	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Decorative Barnacles in Aquarium
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54679	From: Laura Galbraith	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54680	From: Laura Galbraith	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54681	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54682	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54683	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54684	From: Amber	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54685	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54686	From: Jaiko	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54687	From: Amber	Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54688	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54689	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54690	From: harry perry	Date: 5/10/2013
Subject: Fw: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54691	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: Fw: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54692	From: reneap7040	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: crawfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54693	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: crawfish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54694	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54695	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/12/2013
Subject: Re: A beautiful documentory.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54696	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54697	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54698	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54699	From: Patrick	Date: 5/14/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54700	From: Amber	Date: 5/14/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54701	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54702	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54703	From: Amber	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54704	From: rachell7	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54705	From: rachell7	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54706	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54707	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54708	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54709	From: Amber	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54710	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: How can I keep my fish tank cool?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54711	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54712	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54713	From: Amber	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54714	From: Noura	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54715	From: Patrick	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54716	From: Amber	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54717	From: rachell7	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54718	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54719	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54720	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54721	From: rachell7	Date: 5/20/2013
Subject: Thank You! Re: Can I use these in my tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54722	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54723	From: Amber	Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54724	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54725	From: cliffl	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: tropical shrimps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54726	From: cliffl	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: New Member from UK
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54727	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: Re: New Member from UK
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54728	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54729	From: cliffl	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New Member from UK
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54730	From: cliffl	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54731	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54732	From: johnd	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: A Few Daphnia?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54733	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54734	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54735	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Goldfish Basics Care Guide
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54736	From: Garry Peak	Date: 5/27/2013
Subject: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54737	From: Amber	Date: 5/27/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54738	From: joe t	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54739	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54740	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54741	From: Amber	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54742	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54743	From: cliffl	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54744	From: Noura	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54745	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54746	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54747	From: Noura	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54748	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54749	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54750	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54751	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54752	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54753	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54754	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54755	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54756	From: harry perry	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: ICK ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54757	From: Noura	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54758	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54759	From: Amber	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54760	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54761	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54762	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54763	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54764	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54765	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54766	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54767	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54768	From: Amber	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54769	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54770	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54771	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54772	From: harry perry	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Amber.....Re: [AquaticLife] ICK ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54773	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Ick, how to get it...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54774	From: cliffl	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54775	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54776	From: Siva	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54777	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54778	From: Ava	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Betta fish as a gift?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54779	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54780	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54781	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54782	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54783	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54784	From: Michelle	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Ick, how to get it...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54785	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54786	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Betta fish as a gift?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54787	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54788	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54789	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifec...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54790	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54791	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54792	From: Amber	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54793	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54794	From: handsomestick	Date: 6/2/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54795	From: Michelle	Date: 6/2/2013
Subject: Move sick fish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54796	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/3/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54797	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54798	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus) sighted off the Coast of Palestin
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54799	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54800	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54801	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54802	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54803	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54804	From: harry perry	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Something to cosider.....
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54805	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54806	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54807	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54808	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54809	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54810	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54811	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54812	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54813	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54814	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54815	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54816	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54817	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54818	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54819	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54820	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54821	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54822	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54823	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54824	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54825	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54826	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54827	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54828	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54829	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54830	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54831	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54832	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54833	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54834	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54835	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54836	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54837	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54838	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54839	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Al.......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54840	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54841	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54842	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54843	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54844	From: harry perry	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54845	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54846	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54847	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54848	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54849	From: Amber	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54850	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54851	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54852	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54853	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54854	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54855	From: harry perry	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54856	From: Michelle	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54857	From: Michelle	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54858	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54859	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54860	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54861	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54862	From: cliffl	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54863	From: Ava	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54864	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54865	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54866	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54867	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54868	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54869	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Got me a new aquarium light
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54870	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54871	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54872	From: harry perry	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54873	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54874	From: Michelle	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54875	From: Ava	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54876	From: Michelle	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54877	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54878	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54879	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54880	From: Jaiko	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54881	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54882	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54883	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54884	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54885	From: johnd	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Daphnia north of Boston?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54886	From: panickingberserker	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54887	From: Ava	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54888	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Here are my goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54889	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54890	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54891	From: Amber	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54892	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54893	From: panickingberserker	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54894	From: Ava	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54895	From: Amber	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54896	From: Robert	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54897	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54898	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54899	From: Ava	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54900	From: cobra427lady	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54901	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54902	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54903	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54904	From: Avin Deen	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54905	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54906	From: Ava	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54907	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54908	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54909	From: Amber	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54910	From: rachell7	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Dawn's reef tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54911	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54912	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Dawn's reef tank pictures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54913	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54914	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54915	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54916	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54917	From: Amber	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54918	From: harry perry	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54919	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54920	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54921	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54922	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54923	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54924	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54925	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54926	From: Michelle	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Hello to my fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54927	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54928	From: Amber	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54929	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54930	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54931	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54932	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54933	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54934	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Does fish value increase based on size?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54935	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54936	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54937	From: Amber	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54938	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54939	From: Ava	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Goldfish Swim Bladder Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54940	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54941	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish Swim Bladder Issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54942	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Hello to my fish!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54943	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54944	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54945	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54946	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54947	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54948	From: Ray	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54949	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54950	From: cliffl	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: cardinal tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54951	From: joe t	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54952	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: cardinal tetras
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54953	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54954	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54955	From: Ray	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54956	From: Amber	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54957	From: Ray	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54958	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54959	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54960	From: harry perry	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54962	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54963	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54964	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54965	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54966	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Up and running.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54967	From: Amber	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Up and running.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54968	From: joe t	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54969	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54970	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54971	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54972	From: Ray	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54973	From: Ava	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54974	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54975	From: Amber	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54976	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54977	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54978	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54979	From: Andy Mills	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Is there such a thing as a blue angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54980	From: deenerzz	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as a blue angelfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54981	From: Ray	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54982	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54983	From: Ray	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54984	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54985	From: deenerzz	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54986	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54987	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54988	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54989	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54990	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54991	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54992	From: Ray	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: O/T to Dawn and Bill Z.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54993	From: Suzi	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54994	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54995	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54996	From: Suzi	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54997	From: Suzi via Dropbox	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Suzi .. shared an image with you!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54998	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54999	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55000	From: cobra427lady	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55001	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55002	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55003	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55004	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55005	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55006	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55007	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55008	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55009	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55010	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55011	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55012	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55013	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55014	From: Patrick	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55016	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55018	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55019	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55020	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55021	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55022	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55023	From: joe t	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55024	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55025	From: joe t	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55026	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55027	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55028	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55029	From: Ray	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55030	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55031	From: Brian	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55032	From: harry perry	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55033	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55034	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55035	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55036	From: joe t	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55037	From: Ray	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55038	From: Lorraine Murphy	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55039	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55040	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55041	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55042	From: harry perry	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Fin and tail rot.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55043	From: Ray	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55044	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55045	From: harry perry	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55046	From: oldies1433	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55047	From: joe t	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55048	From: Ava	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55049	From: rachell7	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55050	From: Just Micky	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55051	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55052	From: Matthew	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55053	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55054	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55055	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55056	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55057	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55058	From: Ray	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55059	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55060	From: Ray	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55061	From: Suzi	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55062	From: Ava	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55063	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55064	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55065	From: Patrick	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55066	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55067	From: morningstar1576	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55068	From: Amber	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55069	From: Amber	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55070	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55071	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55072	From: Suzi	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55073	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55074	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: My photo of my new betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55075	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55077	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55078	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55079	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55080	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55081	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55082	From: Judy Moon	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55083	From: Amber	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55084	From: kbgwp	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55085	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55086	From: harry perry	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55087	From: Judy Moon	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55088	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55089	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Deals.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55090	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Deals.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55091	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55092	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55093	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55094	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55095	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Deals.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55096	From: kbgwp	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55098	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55099	From: Ray	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55100	From: Ava	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55101	From: joe t	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55102	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55103	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55104	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55105	From: Noura T.	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55106	From: Ava	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55107	From: Patrick	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55108	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55109	From: luvmylilguy83	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55110	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55111	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55112	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55113	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55114	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55115	From: Amber	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55116	From: joe t	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55117	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55118	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55119	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55120	From: rachell7	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55121	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55122	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55123	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55124	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55125	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55126	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55127	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55128	From: rachell7	Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55129	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55130	From: Desire`	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55131	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55132	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55133	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55134	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55135	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55136	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55137	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55138	From: Desire`	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55139	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55140	From: Amber	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55142	From: Amber	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55143	From: Ray	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55144	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55145	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55147	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55148	From: Michelle	Date: 7/19/2013
Subject: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55149	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/20/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55150	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/21/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55151	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/21/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55152	From: Amber	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55153	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55154	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Pleco update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55155	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55156	From: Just Micky	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55157	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55158	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55159	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55160	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55161	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55162	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55163	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55164	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55165	From: Ray	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55166	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55167	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55168	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55169	From: harry perry	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55170	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55171	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55172	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55173	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55174	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55175	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55176	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Salimander Home set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55177	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55178	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55179	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55180	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55181	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: Salimander Home set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55182	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55183	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: Salimander Home set up
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55184	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55185	From: Michelle	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55186	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55187	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55188	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55189	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Looking for a new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55190	From: deenerzz	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55191	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55192	From: Parham	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55193	From: Michelle	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55194	From: Ray	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55195	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55196	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55197	From: rachell7	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55198	From: Ray	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55199	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55200	From: Ray	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55201	From: Amber	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55202	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55203	From: joe t	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55204	From: Ray	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55205	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55206	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55207	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55208	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55209	From: harry perry	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Qyarantine tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55210	From: joe t	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55211	From: Laryl	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: new tank, best fish choice for hard water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55212	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: Qyarantine tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55213	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55214	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55215	From: harry perry	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Live Plants......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55216	From: joe t	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: Qyarantine tank.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55217	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: Live Plants......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55218	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55219	From: Amber	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: new tank, best fish choice for hard water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55220	From: Amber	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: ich?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55221	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: Amber
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55222	From: Laryl	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: new tank, best fish choice for hard water
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55223	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55224	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55225	From: Patrick	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55226	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55227	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55228	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55229	From: Amber	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55230	From: Robert	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55231	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55232	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55233	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55234	From: Priss	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55235	From: Amber	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55236	From: Priss	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55237	From: Jamie W	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55238	From: Ray	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55239	From: Ava	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55240	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55241	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55242	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55243	From: Ava	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Molly gave birth
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55244	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55245	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55246	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Is there something going around?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55247	From: Amber Larr	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Is there something going around?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55248	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55249	From: Robert	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55250	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55251	From: Ray	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55252	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55253	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55254	From: Amber Larr	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55255	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55256	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55257	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55258	From: Ava	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Molly fry tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55259	From: Jamie W	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55260	From: kbgwp	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Molly fry tank?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55261	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55262	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55263	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55264	From: deenerzz	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55265	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: New betta
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55266	From: Robert	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55267	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55268	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/8/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55269	From: Ray	Date: 8/8/2013
Subject: Re: help
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55270	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55271	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55272	From: Amber	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55274	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55275	From: harry perry	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55276	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55277	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: New tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55278	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55279	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55280	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55281	From: harry perry	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55282	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55283	From: kristybeddow	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: salt water tank -- sump pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55284	From: Amber	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55285	From: kristybeddow	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55286	From: Robert	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55287	From: harry perry	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55288	From: Ray	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55289	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55290	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55291	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55292	From: joe t	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Scale protrusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55293	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55294	From: Ray	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Scale protrusion
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55295	From: Robert	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55296	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/16/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55297	From: judymoon1945	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55298	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55299	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55300	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55301	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55302	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55303	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55304	From: Mary	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55305	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55306	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55307	From: Patrick	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55308	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55309	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55310	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55311	From: tkedsall721	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55312	From: Mary	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55313	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55314	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55315	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55316	From: Tracy Edsall	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Florida Gar/Spotted Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55317	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55318	From: Patrick	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55319	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55320	From: tkedsall721	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55321	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55322	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55323	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55324	From: Noura T.	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Anubias Flower!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55325	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Re: Anubias Flower!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55326	From: harry perry	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: New Angelfish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55327	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Recommendations, please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55328	From: Amber	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: New Angelfish Tank
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55329	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55330	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55331	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55332	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55333	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Recommendations, please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55334	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55335	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Keeping large fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55336	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Keeping large fish.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55337	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Recommendations, please
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55338	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Filter/heater questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55339	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Ciclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55340	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55341	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55342	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55343	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Cichlids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55344	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55345	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55346	From: Parham	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55347	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55348	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55349	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55350	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55351	From: Ray	Date: 8/26/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55352	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/26/2013
Subject: John's Christmas list.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55353	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55354	From: harry perry	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55355	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55356	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Off -Topic: Heaters (debate)
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55357	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55358	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55359	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55360	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55361	From: stevebiondi	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: The Best,Ray!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55362	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55363	From: reneap7040	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: black convict.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55364	From: Lynn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55365	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: black convict.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55366	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55367	From: Lynn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: slightly off topic was Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55368	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55369	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: slightly off topic was Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55370	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55371	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55372	From: reneap7040	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: black convict.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55373	From: cindy.winter.t21@btinternet.com	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55374	From: Lynn	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55375	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55376	From: cindy.winter.t21@btinternet.com	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55377	From: Noura T.	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55378	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55379	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55380	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55381	From: harry perry	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55382	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55383	From: harry perry	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55384	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55385	From: harry perry	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55386	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55387	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55388	From: Devgiri Prasad	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55389	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55390	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55391	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55392	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55393	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55394	From: harry perry	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55395	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55396	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55397	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55398	From: Cindy Winter	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55399	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55400	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55401	From: Cindy Winter	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55402	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55403	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Any request about fish aliments - - !
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55404	From: Noura T.	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: New filter, N cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55405	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: New filter, N cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55406	From: noura_taweel	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55407	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Silent Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55408	From: noura_taweel	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55409	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: New filter, N cycle question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55410	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55411	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Any otto cat people here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55412	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Any otto cat people here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55413	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Silent Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55414	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55415	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Silent Pumps
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55416	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55417	From: harry perry	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55418	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55419	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55420	From: harry perry	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55421	From: joe t	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55422	From: jaffacity	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Loggerhead Sea Turtle in Gaza, Palestine
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55423	From: Joseph	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55424	From: Noura T.	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55425	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55426	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55427	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55428	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: unwanted fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55429	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55430	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55431	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55432	From: harry perry	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55433	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: Any otto cat people here?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55434	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 9/12/2013
Subject: 19year old invents way to clean our oceans within 5 years
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55435	From: Lynn	Date: 9/13/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55436	From: Paul Gressling	Date: 9/13/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55437	From: megablasto2000	Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: filter bags and nitrobacters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55438	From: megablasto2000	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: nitrobacter media questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55439	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: filter bags and nitrobacters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55440	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: nitrobacter media questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55441	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: filter bags and nitrobacters
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55442	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: nitrobacter media questions
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55443	From: Lynn	Date: 9/18/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55444	From: genealogyresearcher7	Date: 9/19/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55445	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/24/2013
Subject: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55446	From: harry perry	Date: 9/24/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55447	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55448	From: jett07002	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55449	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55450	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55451	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/27/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55452	From: Mary Guido	Date: 9/28/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55453	From: janicedewire	Date: 9/29/2013
Subject: Hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55454	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/29/2013
Subject: Re: Hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55455	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55456	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55457	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55458	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55459	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55460	From: janicedewire	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Anyone with Oscars?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55461	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Anyone with Oscars?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55462	From: harry perry	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Anyone with Oscars?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55463	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55464	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55465	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55466	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55467	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55468	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55469	From: dominick1008	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55470	From: jett07002	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55471	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55472	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55473	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55474	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55475	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55476	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55477	From: joseph7787	Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Aquatic plant trade for planted tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55478	From: joseph7787	Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Aquatic plant trade for planted tanks?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55479	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 10/9/2013
Subject: do Jack Dempseys change sex?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55480	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/9/2013
Subject: Re: do Jack Dempseys change sex?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55481	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: do Jack Dempseys change sex?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55482	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55483	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55484	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55485	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55486	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55487	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: My Oscar has swollen lips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55488	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55489	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55490	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55491	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55492	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55493	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Coelacanth Fish from State of Kuwait
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55494	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55495	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Re: Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55496	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55497	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55498	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/18/2013
Subject: Interesting Salmon turning yellow
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55499	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Coelacanth Model at Museum Koenig in Bonn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55500	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Re: Coelacanth Model at Museum Koenig in Bonn
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55501	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55502	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55503	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/20/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55504	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/20/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55505	From: Amber	Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55506	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55507	From: Dale Beasley	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55508	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55509	From: cobra427lady	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55510	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55511	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 1:0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55512	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 1:0
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55514	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55515	From: cobra427lady	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55516	From: Harry Perry	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55517	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55518	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Coelacanth at Kuwait Educational Science Museum
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55519	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 12:
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55520	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55521	From: pam andress	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55522	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55523	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55524	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55525	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55526	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/4/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55527	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55528	From: jett07002	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55529	From: jett07002	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55530	From: Amber	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55531	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55532	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55533	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 1...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55534	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55535	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55536	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55537	From: janicedewire	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55538	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55539	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55540	From: Amber	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55541	From: Amber	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55542	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gravel
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55543	From: Gwydryn2000	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55544	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55545	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55546	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55547	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55548	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55549	From: jett07002	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55550	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55551	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Question about cermramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55552	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55553	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: confused about biological media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55554	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55555	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55556	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55557	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55558	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/11/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55559	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/12/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55560	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55561	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55562	From: Amber	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55563	From: love_animals07	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Fish got ick!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55564	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55565	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55566	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55567	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55568	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55569	From: Amber	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55570	From: jett07002	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55571	From: Lorraine Murphy	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55572	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55573	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: undergravel filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55574	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55576	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55577	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55578	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Octopus Intelligence
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55579	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/18/2013
Subject: Re: Octopus Intelligence
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55580	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55581	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55582	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55583	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55584	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 11/21/2013
Subject: Piranhas eating others
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55585	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas eating others
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55586	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55587	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55588	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55589	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Fw: Recent breeding.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55590	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55591	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55592	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55593	From: adonaikam	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55594	From: jett07002	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55595	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55596	From: adonaikam	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55597	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55598	From: Jasmine	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55599	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Thanksgiving.
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55600	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55601	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55602	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55603	From: Jasmine	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55604	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55605	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55606	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55607	From: Amber	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55608	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55609	From: Amber	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55610	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55611	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55612	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55613	From: Just Micky	Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55614	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55615	From: john	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55616	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55617	From: Just Micky	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55618	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/4/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55619	From: ptimlin	Date: 12/4/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55620	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/5/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55621	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/5/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55622	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/6/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55623	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/7/2013
Subject: Coralife T5 HO Lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55624	From: Tim OMalley	Date: 12/8/2013
Subject: Re: Coralife T5 HO Lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55625	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/9/2013
Subject: Re: Coralife T5 HO Lights
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55626	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/9/2013
Subject: T5 HO Fixtures
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55627	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Indoor/Outdoor Pond
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55628	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55629	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55630	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55631	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/22/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55632	From: jett07002	Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55633	From: barnsten	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: API test kit question...
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55634	From: Harry Perry	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Christmas.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55635	From: pam andress	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Christmas.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55636	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55637	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55638	From: Farooq Ansari	Date: 12/25/2013
Subject: Re: Christmas.......
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/26/2013
Subject: Hi Noura
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55640	From: katgrrrrl99	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Fishless tank cycling??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55641	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Re: Fishless tank cycling??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55642	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Re: Fishless tank cycling??
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55643	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55644	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55645	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55646	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55647	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55648	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update
Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55649	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

---

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52809	From: Grady Ferguson	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

putting tap water in a bucket, and letting it set for at least 24 hours will allow most impurities to settle to bottom of bucket.cyphining the water off the top for use during regular replentishing. >________________________________ > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:50 PM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium > > >  >Hi Ray and everybody, > >thanks again for all the information! >I think my messages came a little out of order too (they moderated I think and that might mix up a response a little bit). In any case I am glad for all the responses! > >Having fish really includes a lot of science! >I think I have to read everything twice to not miss some information. > >Just a brief update: I think fortunately my ammonia levels are almost or exactly 0 now (2-3 days now). The tank temperature fluctuates a little between 78 and 80. It seems if I switch off the light at night it goes down a little and then up with the light. Even though the heater should be temperature regulated. According to the stripes I think the ph was rather 7.8 than 8 but the exact value is really hard to tell with the color code of the stripes :( >But the nitrite is still coming up every day since 2-3 days now but I start to see some color on the nitrate stripe too. I do not remember which bacteria brand I used in the beginning but I hope they shortened the cycle a little bit and I might be lucky that I only have to deal with the nitrite... It might have been the "good" brand you mentioned before (but not Dr. Tim's) >I still do (since maybe 4 days) daily partial water changes (maybe 50%) to keep the nitrite levels down and add Prime now in the normal (or maybe double) dose...I will try to locate Dr. Tim's bacteria, thanks! > >According to your info the fish came really very close to a too high exposure of both toxins. I am lucky they are still there and seem mostly ok. >But I notice that at least one was affected unfortunately by the temporary higher levels of ammonia or nitrite. One more than the others. He swims close to the surface, does not swim much around and I noticed the heavy gill movement days ago. That was when I had the brief peak in nitrite. He is better now and I hope the Prime prevents further problems. The other fish still seem ok, only stressed by the frequent water changes. Especially one started to hide when I come, I think he expects another intrusion in his tank...I am glad the salt might have prevented the worst! > >Thanks again, >Nora > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: >> >> Hi again Nora, >> >> As for testing your tap water for Ammonia and Nitrite, if it contains chloramine as added by your water company, you can expect it will test positive for ammonia -- it's just how much ammonia that's the question. Your Prime will take care of that though, and will also take care of any ammonia being produced as fish waste. Nitrite can also be found in tap water, so determining that would go a long way in deciding how to proceed with your water issues. >> >> I noticed on another Forum (Uniquarium) that you used double the normal dose of Prime with your first PWC, and the fish were fine, but when using 4 times the normal dose of Prime with your next (50%) PWC, your fish weren't acting exactly right. I don't know if there's any limit that's been deemed by the aquarium community as being safe, only that SeaChem has recommended their standard dose in their directions. As the fish were still fine at 2 X the normal dose, it would seem to still be safe at that dosage, so I wouldn't discontinue its use -- just cut back from 4 X the dosage. After determining your nitrite levels of both your tap water and of your tank water, your best method for it's removal may still be via PWC's if your tap water is determined to contain little or no nitrite. >> >> Off-gassing (allowing the excess CO2 to dissipate) will not affect your ammonia nor nitrite reading, but MAY see a difference in your pH test from the time the water is first drawn to the 24 hour period it's allowed to stand. >> >> Getting back to your question (on Uniquaria) of what the water conditioner/additive "Stabilize" is, it was apparently formulated as a liquid bio-media, used to promote your cycle; it is advertised as having live nitrifying bacteria. Please know that while the original formula seemed to work for some hobbyists, many others did not have as good results with it. Still, if it appeared to work, it might be worth a try anyway -- EXCEPT for the fact that the formula has been reported to have been changed. As a result, Many more hobbyists are reporting having negative results with it, and fewer are having positive results with it. >> >> There are several other similar products designed to act the same way, "Start Smart" (by TLC) being one of them, as also is "SuperBac" sold by Big Al's (on on-line aquarium retailer). Tetra also offers their "Safe Start," but as live nitrifying bacteria need a constant source of oxygen to survive -- unless specially formulated to decrease their metabolism (and none of these products thus far mentioned are), they become useless in short time -- if they ever were useful (?). There is only one such live nitrifying bacteria on the market that I know of that is actually viable and functional, and this one was formulated by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec, as containing live aerobic autotrophic nitrobacteraceae, being named "Dr. Tim's One and Only." This product needs to be refrigerated to remain viable and even then it's shelf life is limited -- although vastly extended from the "Bio-Spira" product he previously developed when working for Marineland. "Bio-Spira's" formula has now been changed (by Marineland) and no longer needs to be refrigerated, by I need to question how well it still works compared to how extremely successful it first was as it's original formula product. >> >> If you want a product to jump-start your nitrogen cycle, get Dr. Hovanec's product (not easy to find as its refrigeration requirement limits the number of stores wanting to carry it). Most other so-called bacteria additives simply don't work as advertised, or their action is delayed by several weeks as they contain not aerobic autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, but instead facultative anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria not needing oxygen and first needing to break down excess foods and fish waste by putrification before any nitrifying bacteria can even start these bacteria' by-products. So, don't waste your money on them. I'm replying to your Uniquaria questions on this List as when I reply on Uniquaria my posts can often be delayed be several days. This is not mrant as any reflection on the owner of that list as I know he's very busy, and has even so stated this to us on yet another List we both moderate. >> >> Ray -- Moderator >> >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Ray, >> > >> > thanks for all the info! It helps a lot to get more detailed information than just having to guess. >> > I was hoping with Prime I have found the miracle solution but it seems it is not that easy.... >> > >> > My ammonia readings were 0 or very low (with the stripes it is hard to say) the last two times so it seems my cycle works quite fast. Maybe the bacteria I added in the beginning were helping. >> > On the other hand: I had added one time a tablet against ammonia so I wonder if that affects the readings? I did two water changes in the meantime so I thought I would have measured something nevertheless if it was there... >> > >> > In any case I will continue the PWC's daily and add Prime and hope it will work out. >> > >> > Thanks again, >> > Nora >> > >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: >> > > >> > > Nora, >> > > >> > > As Amber has told you, don't stop doing PWC's, and as Dawn has said, don't change too much at any one time. It's better to change 1.5 gallons every day than 3 gallons every other day. Still, depending on your ammonia and nitrite readings, you will have to change whatever amount of water it takes every day to keep these organic waste product levels from reaching levels that would be toxic to your fishes -- even though changing water will extend the cycling time -- and here I'm more concerned about your nitrite levels. This is yet another reason for not cycling a tank with fish in it, but it's too late to enter this part into the scenario since you already have them. >> > > >> > > I'm reminded here that you're just a little past 10 days into the cycle, at which time the ammonia generally spikes. You can expect your nitrite to climb higher than what it reads now if you don't make larger PWC's every day; keep monitoring it. A nitrite level of 5.0 ppm will be lethal to all your fishes, regardless of pH or temperature. >> > > >> > > In all I've read from you, I haven't seen you mention what you keep the temperature of the tank at. While this is a lessor factor than pH when considering how toxic any ammonia or nitrite might be, it still enters into the picture and can be a deciding factor on just how toxic these DOS's (Dissolved Organic Solids) ultimately become. Noticed your pH is 8.0 -- BUT, you need to make sure this is an accurate reading when giving this parameter to us, and not just something "close," as this is what we'll need in knowing how to advise you further. That your fishes seemingly aren't suffering, would indicate to me that your pH might be somewhat lower, but I have no way of knowing this. That you added, and are maintaining, salt since the very beginning has given your fishes a great benefit in them remaining relatively free from the toxic effects of ammonia, and can be slightly helpful with nitrite problems, although this compound (salt) will not fully address this latter problem. >> > > >> > > You should see the ammonia level start to go down of its own accord within a few days, as a part of the nitrifying bacteria converting this product becoming fully established in the cycle -- but you'll still need to do enough PWC's to keep the nitrite down. Getting back to the ammonia, while no amount of it is any good for your fishes (it impacts a stress on them), dropping the temperature of the water will go a long way in keeping this ammonia from becoming lethal at your pH 8.0, if not using Prime. Glad to see that you invested in this fine water conditioner. >> > > >> > > At pH 8.0, 1.0 ppm of ammonia is lethal to many different species of fishes at only 62 o, so you salt is obviously doing its job in preventing this from happening, as well too is the Prime helping with this issue. Note, that at pH 7.8, this same 1.00 ppm of ammonia doesn't become toxic until reaching 73 o, so it's very important to get as accurate a pH reading as you can determine. Still at the pH of 8.0 though, a much lower 0.5 ppm ammonia becomes lethal at 80 o (and toxic at 68 o). Also, at this same pH, a level of 0.25 ammonia does not become lethal, nor does it even become toxic, even at 80 o or more. The Prime will ensure that any Free Ammonia will not exist, but even ammonium, as relatively harmless as it is to fish, will exert some stress on them, which is why it's best to keep the ammonia (ammonium) reading down at all times during a tank cycling. To answer your question, it's much better on the fish to keep toxic levels down at all times, even though this means to stretch out the cycle. Maintaining really high levels of ammonia and nitrite, even for just a very short period, is extremely dangerous to fishes as there can reach a point when they become lethal if only at that level for an hour. Also, nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia, so it's something you need to keep at a minimum, and drop the temperature somewhat during this period to help your fishes get through it. >> > > >> > > Ray >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > I have 2 mollies, 1 platy and 3 white cloud in a 10 Gallon aquarium that I started new 10 days ago. >> > > > >> > > > I am doing partial water changes 3 times a week to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low (and have 2 Tablespoon salt in the water). The ammonia levels are approx. 0.5 -1 ppm since days. In the fish shop today they tried to convince me that I should stop water changes and just let everything proceed until the aquarium had cycled itself. >> > > > I wonder what is more dangerous: really high levels of ammonia for some days or low levels for a longer time? >> > > > >> > > > Is it right that the aquarium will be cycled in the end if I continue water changes? To me it seems more reasonable to keep toxic levels down even if it might take longer...In the internet are too many opinions but maybe someone has first hand experience with this way? >> > > > >> > > > How is your experience with additional chemicals like Amquel or Prime? >> > > > Is it better to just change partial water or are those chemicals easier on the fish? >> > > > >> > > > The fish seem happy but how do I notice if levels are too high and affecting them? >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Nora >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52811	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

This is not true for chloramines in the water. These take quite a long time to out-gas (weeks I believe). Amber On 12/31/2011 6:22 PM, Grady Ferguson wrote: > > putting tap water in a bucket, and letting it set for at least 24 > hours will allow most impurities to settle to bottom of > bucket.cyphining the water off the top for use during regular > replentishing. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52812	From: Ray	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

Grady, I have no idea which "impurities" you're referring to, or how you came to this erroneous blanket conclusion, but the specific impurities in the message you've replied to are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as products of Nora's New Tank Syndrome/established Cycle process. These organic waste products do not drop out of solution no matter how long the water is allowed to stand. While it appears you've replied to the wrong message in this thread, I do recognize that you're referring to tap water (and not the aquarium water being discussed in this certain message), but please note -- as Amber has just stated -- that the impurity of Chloramine as part of the issue of this thread does not settle out of solution to the bottom either, no matter how long it's allowed to stand. Even heavy metals that are introduced via some hobbyist's water supplies need those additives in their water conditioners they use which address heavy metals as these impurities too do not just drop out of solution by standing. Unless you can be more specific in your responses, such information -- being seen as completely wrong in the application/thread at hand is extremely misleading and disruptively dangerous to those members seeking correct and needed information (which cannot be allowed, for the good of the members). As you're a new member here, starting just 4 days ago on 12/29/11, I don't know if you're also a beginning hobbyist which may explain your rather rash reply, but I have no other choice here but to put you on moderation. This is in no way any kind of punishment, but is meant just to monitor your future input. Actually, it is the general policy to put all new members on a moderated period until such time it can be determined that they be allowed to post unmoderated, and I don't know how your membership got past this most important step (I hadn't seen your application being sent to this List). You really should have started out being moderated, but the moderator who approved you apparently overlooked this little detail. Please feel free to post as you ordinarily would, with the understanding that your messages will have to pass by us moderators first. I'm sure we'll be able to take you off of this status very shortly; thanks for your understanding. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Grady Ferguson <davidsson70@...> wrote: > > putting tap water in a bucket, and letting it set for at least 24 hours will allow most impurities to settle to bottom of bucket.cyphining the water off the top for use during regular replentishing. > > > >________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:50 PM > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium > > > > > >  > >Hi Ray and everybody, > > > >thanks again for all the information! > >I think my messages came a little out of order too (they moderated I think and that might mix up a response a little bit). In any case I am glad for all the responses! > > > >Having fish really includes a lot of science! > >I think I have to read everything twice to not miss some information. > > > >Just a brief update: I think fortunately my ammonia levels are almost or exactly 0 now (2-3 days now). The tank temperature fluctuates a little between 78 and 80. It seems if I switch off the light at night it goes down a little and then up with the light. Even though the heater should be temperature regulated. According to the stripes I think the ph was rather 7.8 than 8 but the exact value is really hard to tell with the color code of the stripes :( > >But the nitrite is still coming up every day since 2-3 days now but I start to see some color on the nitrate stripe too. I do not remember which bacteria brand I used in the beginning but I hope they shortened the cycle a little bit and I might be lucky that I only have to deal with the nitrite... It might have been the "good" brand you mentioned before (but not Dr. Tim's) > >I still do (since maybe 4 days) daily partial water changes (maybe 50%) to keep the nitrite levels down and add Prime now in the normal (or maybe double) dose...I will try to locate Dr. Tim's bacteria, thanks! > > > >According to your info the fish came really very close to a too high exposure of both toxins. I am lucky they are still there and seem mostly ok. > >But I notice that at least one was affected unfortunately by the temporary higher levels of ammonia or nitrite. One more than the others. He swims close to the surface, does not swim much around and I noticed the heavy gill movement days ago. That was when I had the brief peak in nitrite. He is better now and I hope the Prime prevents further problems. The other fish still seem ok, only stressed by the frequent water changes. Especially one started to hide when I come, I think he expects another intrusion in his tank...I am glad the salt might have prevented the worst! > > > >Thanks again, > >Nora > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > >> > >> Hi again Nora, > >> > >> As for testing your tap water for Ammonia and Nitrite, if it contains chloramine as added by your water company, you can expect it will test positive for ammonia -- it's just how much ammonia that's the question. Your Prime will take care of that though, and will also take care of any ammonia being produced as fish waste. Nitrite can also be found in tap water, so determining that would go a long way in deciding how to proceed with your water issues. > >> > >> I noticed on another Forum (Uniquarium) that you used double the normal dose of Prime with your first PWC, and the fish were fine, but when using 4 times the normal dose of Prime with your next (50%) PWC, your fish weren't acting exactly right. I don't know if there's any limit that's been deemed by the aquarium community as being safe, only that SeaChem has recommended their standard dose in their directions. As the fish were still fine at 2 X the normal dose, it would seem to still be safe at that dosage, so I wouldn't discontinue its use -- just cut back from 4 X the dosage. After determining your nitrite levels of both your tap water and of your tank water, your best method for it's removal may still be via PWC's if your tap water is determined to contain little or no nitrite. > >> > >> Off-gassing (allowing the excess CO2 to dissipate) will not affect your ammonia nor nitrite reading, but MAY see a difference in your pH test from the time the water is first drawn to the 24 hour period it's allowed to stand. > >> > >> Getting back to your question (on Uniquaria) of what the water conditioner/additive "Stabilize" is, it was apparently formulated as a liquid bio-media, used to promote your cycle; it is advertised as having live nitrifying bacteria. Please know that while the original formula seemed to work for some hobbyists, many others did not have as good results with it. Still, if it appeared to work, it might be worth a try anyway -- EXCEPT for the fact that the formula has been reported to have been changed. As a result, Many more hobbyists are reporting having negative results with it, and fewer are having positive results with it. > >> > >> There are several other similar products designed to act the same way, "Start Smart" (by TLC) being one of them, as also is "SuperBac" sold by Big Al's (on on-line aquarium retailer). Tetra also offers their "Safe Start," but as live nitrifying bacteria need a constant source of oxygen to survive -- unless specially formulated to decrease their metabolism (and none of these products thus far mentioned are), they become useless in short time -- if they ever were useful (?). There is only one such live nitrifying bacteria on the market that I know of that is actually viable and functional, and this one was formulated by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec, as containing live aerobic autotrophic nitrobacteraceae, being named "Dr. Tim's One and Only." This product needs to be refrigerated to remain viable and even then it's shelf life is limited -- although vastly extended from the "Bio-Spira" product he previously developed when working for Marineland. > "Bio-Spira's" formula has now been changed (by Marineland) and no longer needs to be refrigerated, by I need to question how well it still works compared to how extremely successful it first was as it's original formula product. > >> > >> If you want a product to jump-start your nitrogen cycle, get Dr. Hovanec's product (not easy to find as its refrigeration requirement limits the number of stores wanting to carry it). Most other so-called bacteria additives simply don't work as advertised, or their action is delayed by several weeks as they contain not aerobic autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, but instead facultative anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria not needing oxygen and first needing to break down excess foods and fish waste by putrification before any nitrifying bacteria can even start these bacteria' by-products. So, don't waste your money on them. I'm replying to your Uniquaria questions on this List as when I reply on Uniquaria my posts can often be delayed be several days. This is not mrant as any reflection on the owner of that list as I know he's very busy, and has even so stated this to us on yet another List we both moderate. > >> > >> Ray -- Moderator > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Ray, > >> > > >> > thanks for all the info! It helps a lot to get more detailed information than just having to guess. > >> > I was hoping with Prime I have found the miracle solution but it seems it is not that easy.... > >> > > >> > My ammonia readings were 0 or very low (with the stripes it is hard to say) the last two times so it seems my cycle works quite fast. Maybe the bacteria I added in the beginning were helping. > >> > On the other hand: I had added one time a tablet against ammonia so I wonder if that affects the readings? I did two water changes in the meantime so I thought I would have measured something nevertheless if it was there... > >> > > >> > In any case I will continue the PWC's daily and add Prime and hope it will work out. > >> > > >> > Thanks again, > >> > Nora > >> > > >> > > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Nora, > >> > > > >> > > As Amber has told you, don't stop doing PWC's, and as Dawn has said, don't change too much at any one time. It's better to change 1.5 gallons every day than 3 gallons every other day. Still, depending on your ammonia and nitrite readings, you will have to change whatever amount of water it takes every day to keep these organic waste product levels from reaching levels that would be toxic to your fishes -- even though changing water will extend the cycling time -- and here I'm more concerned about your nitrite levels. This is yet another reason for not cycling a tank with fish in it, but it's too late to enter this part into the scenario since you already have them. > >> > > > >> > > I'm reminded here that you're just a little past 10 days into the cycle, at which time the ammonia generally spikes. You can expect your nitrite to climb higher than what it reads now if you don't make larger PWC's every day; keep monitoring it. A nitrite level of 5.0 ppm will be lethal to all your fishes, regardless of pH or temperature. > >> > > > >> > > In all I've read from you, I haven't seen you mention what you keep the temperature of the tank at. While this is a lessor factor than pH when considering how toxic any ammonia or nitrite might be, it still enters into the picture and can be a deciding factor on just how toxic these DOS's (Dissolved Organic Solids) ultimately become. Noticed your pH is 8.0 -- BUT, you need to make sure this is an accurate reading when giving this parameter to us, and not just something "close," as this is what we'll need in knowing how to advise you further. That your fishes seemingly aren't suffering, would indicate to me that your pH might be somewhat lower, but I have no way of knowing this. That you added, and are maintaining, salt since the very beginning has given your fishes a great benefit in them remaining relatively free from the toxic effects of ammonia, and can be slightly helpful with nitrite problems, although this compound (salt) will not fully > address this latter problem. > >> > > > >> > > You should see the ammonia level start to go down of its own accord within a few days, as a part of the nitrifying bacteria converting this product becoming fully established in the cycle -- but you'll still need to do enough PWC's to keep the nitrite down. Getting back to the ammonia, while no amount of it is any good for your fishes (it impacts a stress on them), dropping the temperature of the water will go a long way in keeping this ammonia from becoming lethal at your pH 8.0, if not using Prime. Glad to see that you invested in this fine water conditioner. > >> > > > >> > > At pH 8.0, 1.0 ppm of ammonia is lethal to many different species of fishes at only 62 o, so you salt is obviously doing its job in preventing this from happening, as well too is the Prime helping with this issue. Note, that at pH 7.8, this same 1.00 ppm of ammonia doesn't become toxic until reaching 73 o, so it's very important to get as accurate a pH reading as you can determine. Still at the pH of 8.0 though, a much lower 0.5 ppm ammonia becomes lethal at 80 o (and toxic at 68 o). Also, at this same pH, a level of 0.25 ammonia does not become lethal, nor does it even become toxic, even at 80 o or more. The Prime will ensure that any Free Ammonia will not exist, but even ammonium, as relatively harmless as it is to fish, will exert some stress on them, which is why it's best to keep the ammonia (ammonium) reading down at all times during a tank cycling. To answer your question, it's much better on the fish to keep toxic levels down at all > times, even though this means to stretch out the cycle. Maintaining really high levels of ammonia and nitrite, even for just a very short period, is extremely dangerous to fishes as there can reach a point when they become lethal if only at that level for an hour. Also, nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia, so it's something you need to keep at a minimum, and drop the temperature somewhat during this period to help your fishes get through it. > >> > > > >> > > Ray > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > I have 2 mollies, 1 platy and 3 white cloud in a 10 Gallon aquarium that I started new 10 days ago. > >> > > > > >> > > > I am doing partial water changes 3 times a week to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low (and have 2 Tablespoon salt in the water). The ammonia levels are approx. 0.5 -1 ppm since days. In the fish shop today they tried to convince me that I should stop water changes and just let everything proceed until the aquarium had cycled itself. > >> > > > I wonder what is more dangerous: really high levels of ammonia for some days or low levels for a longer time? > >> > > > > >> > > > Is it right that the aquarium will be cycled in the end if I continue water changes? To me it seems more reasonable to keep toxic levels down even if it might take longer...In the internet are too many opinions but maybe someone has first hand experience with this way? > >> > > > > >> > > > How is your experience with additional chemicals like Amquel or Prime? > >> > > > Is it better to just change partial water or are those chemicals easier on the fish? > >> > > > > >> > > > The fish seem happy but how do I notice if levels are too high and affecting them? > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Nora > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52813	From: Ray	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

Hi Nora, Don't be too concerned about your messages possibly being a little out of order. It appears that we all got the meaning(s) of them. There are times here too, when my (and perhaps other's) messages may also be "out of order," sometimes purposefully in an attempt to stress more important points first. It looks like you have a good handle on everything all of us tried to help you with. With obtaining an all-liquid master test kit -- containing all the needed individual tests -- you'll be able to be more on top of just what your water parameter values are. Looks like things are progressing fairly well so far; just keep up with the PWC's to keep the nitrite down. I saw where you indicated that you feel your pH is coloser to 7.8 as I suspected. This would partially explain your fish remaining fairly well despite the high ammonia level during that recent period. Yes, I believe the salt you used from the beginning prevented any detrimental effects, and fortunately so. Salt is really not generally needed, even for Mollies -- if you water is otherwise hard and basic (above pH 7.0), although not all fishes enjoy hard water. You were lucky to have thought of using salt from the beginning, undoubtedly because of the Mollies, but as long as you had only 1/8 teaspoon per gallon of it before your ammonia or nitrite started to escalate, your fish should have been safe from their toxic effects. I did happen to see a post recently (I don't remember whoch Forum), which recommended your doubling up on the salt content you now have. Just wanted to add this is not at all necessary -- unless your parameters escalated before adding salt. While maintaining fishes does include more than first meets the eye, and requires the uses of a lot of science, most of this science is really basic after you realize what it entails. If any of it is beyond you, don't let it get the better of you. We're here to help, and are more than pleased to be able to do so. Please feel free to continue to ask us anything you don't fully understand. We enjoy nothing better than to see new hobbyists succeed. Oh, on that "Dr. Tim's" bacteria additive, it's not exactly cheap but is well worth it's price. As long as you stay on top of things though, you may not need it but that's up to you -- it can be useful stuff even when part way into establishing a cycle. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray and everybody, > > thanks again for all the information! > I think my messages came a little out of order too (they moderated I think and that might mix up a response a little bit). In any case I am glad for all the responses! > > Having fish really includes a lot of science! > I think I have to read everything twice to not miss some information. > > Just a brief update: I think fortunately my ammonia levels are almost or exactly 0 now (2-3 days now). The tank temperature fluctuates a little between 78 and 80. It seems if I switch off the light at night it goes down a little and then up with the light. Even though the heater should be temperature regulated. According to the stripes I think the ph was rather 7.8 than 8 but the exact value is really hard to tell with the color code of the stripes :( > But the nitrite is still coming up every day since 2-3 days now but I start to see some color on the nitrate stripe too. I do not remember which bacteria brand I used in the beginning but I hope they shortened the cycle a little bit and I might be lucky that I only have to deal with the nitrite... It might have been the "good" brand you mentioned before (but not Dr. Tim's) > I still do (since maybe 4 days) daily partial water changes (maybe 50%) to keep the nitrite levels down and add Prime now in the normal (or maybe double) dose...I will try to locate Dr. Tim's bacteria, thanks! > > According to your info the fish came really very close to a too high exposure of both toxins. I am lucky they are still there and seem mostly ok. > But I notice that at least one was affected unfortunately by the temporary higher levels of ammonia or nitrite. One more than the others. He swims close to the surface, does not swim much around and I noticed the heavy gill movement days ago. That was when I had the brief peak in nitrite. He is better now and I hope the Prime prevents further problems. The other fish still seem ok, only stressed by the frequent water changes. Especially one started to hide when I come, I think he expects another intrusion in his tank...I am glad the salt might have prevented the worst! > > Thanks again, > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi again Nora, > > > > As for testing your tap water for Ammonia and Nitrite, if it contains chloramine as added by your water company, you can expect it will test positive for ammonia -- it's just how much ammonia that's the question. Your Prime will take care of that though, and will also take care of any ammonia being produced as fish waste. Nitrite can also be found in tap water, so determining that would go a long way in deciding how to proceed with your water issues. > > > > I noticed on another Forum (Uniquarium) that you used double the normal dose of Prime with your first PWC, and the fish were fine, but when using 4 times the normal dose of Prime with your next (50%) PWC, your fish weren't acting exactly right. I don't know if there's any limit that's been deemed by the aquarium community as being safe, only that SeaChem has recommended their standard dose in their directions. As the fish were still fine at 2 X the normal dose, it would seem to still be safe at that dosage, so I wouldn't discontinue its use -- just cut back from 4 X the dosage. After determining your nitrite levels of both your tap water and of your tank water, your best method for it's removal may still be via PWC's if your tap water is determined to contain little or no nitrite. > > > > Off-gassing (allowing the excess CO2 to dissipate) will not affect your ammonia nor nitrite reading, but MAY see a difference in your pH test from the time the water is first drawn to the 24 hour period it's allowed to stand. > > > > Getting back to your question (on Uniquaria) of what the water conditioner/additive "Stabilize" is, it was apparently formulated as a liquid bio-media, used to promote your cycle; it is advertised as having live nitrifying bacteria. Please know that while the original formula seemed to work for some hobbyists, many others did not have as good results with it. Still, if it appeared to work, it might be worth a try anyway -- EXCEPT for the fact that the formula has been reported to have been changed. As a result, Many more hobbyists are reporting having negative results with it, and fewer are having positive results with it. > > > > There are several other similar products designed to act the same way, "Start Smart" (by TLC) being one of them, as also is "SuperBac" sold by Big Al's (on on-line aquarium retailer). Tetra also offers their "Safe Start," but as live nitrifying bacteria need a constant source of oxygen to survive -- unless specially formulated to decrease their metabolism (and none of these products thus far mentioned are), they become useless in short time -- if they ever were useful (?). There is only one such live nitrifying bacteria on the market that I know of that is actually viable and functional, and this one was formulated by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec, as containing live aerobic autotrophic nitrobacteraceae, being named "Dr. Tim's One and Only." This product needs to be refrigerated to remain viable and even then it's shelf life is limited -- although vastly extended from the "Bio-Spira" product he previously developed when working for Marineland. "Bio-Spira's" formula has now been changed (by Marineland) and no longer needs to be refrigerated, by I need to question how well it still works compared to how extremely successful it first was as it's original formula product. > > > > If you want a product to jump-start your nitrogen cycle, get Dr. Hovanec's product (not easy to find as its refrigeration requirement limits the number of stores wanting to carry it). Most other so-called bacteria additives simply don't work as advertised, or their action is delayed by several weeks as they contain not aerobic autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, but instead facultative anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria not needing oxygen and first needing to break down excess foods and fish waste by putrification before any nitrifying bacteria can even start these bacteria' by-products. So, don't waste your money on them. I'm replying to your Uniquaria questions on this List as when I reply on Uniquaria my posts can often be delayed be several days. This is not mrant as any reflection on the owner of that list as I know he's very busy, and has even so stated this to us on yet another List we both moderate. > > > > Ray -- Moderator > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > thanks for all the info! It helps a lot to get more detailed information than just having to guess. > > > I was hoping with Prime I have found the miracle solution but it seems it is not that easy.... > > > > > > My ammonia readings were 0 or very low (with the stripes it is hard to say) the last two times so it seems my cycle works quite fast. Maybe the bacteria I added in the beginning were helping. > > > On the other hand: I had added one time a tablet against ammonia so I wonder if that affects the readings? I did two water changes in the meantime so I thought I would have measured something nevertheless if it was there... > > > > > > In any case I will continue the PWC's daily and add Prime and hope it will work out. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > > > As Amber has told you, don't stop doing PWC's, and as Dawn has said, don't change too much at any one time. It's better to change 1.5 gallons every day than 3 gallons every other day. Still, depending on your ammonia and nitrite readings, you will have to change whatever amount of water it takes every day to keep these organic waste product levels from reaching levels that would be toxic to your fishes -- even though changing water will extend the cycling time -- and here I'm more concerned about your nitrite levels. This is yet another reason for not cycling a tank with fish in it, but it's too late to enter this part into the scenario since you already have them. > > > > > > > > I'm reminded here that you're just a little past 10 days into the cycle, at which time the ammonia generally spikes. You can expect your nitrite to climb higher than what it reads now if you don't make larger PWC's every day; keep monitoring it. A nitrite level of 5.0 ppm will be lethal to all your fishes, regardless of pH or temperature. > > > > > > > > In all I've read from you, I haven't seen you mention what you keep the temperature of the tank at. While this is a lessor factor than pH when considering how toxic any ammonia or nitrite might be, it still enters into the picture and can be a deciding factor on just how toxic these DOS's (Dissolved Organic Solids) ultimately become. Noticed your pH is 8.0 -- BUT, you need to make sure this is an accurate reading when giving this parameter to us, and not just something "close," as this is what we'll need in knowing how to advise you further. That your fishes seemingly aren't suffering, would indicate to me that your pH might be somewhat lower, but I have no way of knowing this. That you added, and are maintaining, salt since the very beginning has given your fishes a great benefit in them remaining relatively free from the toxic effects of ammonia, and can be slightly helpful with nitrite problems, although this compound (salt) will not fully address this latter problem. > > > > > > > > You should see the ammonia level start to go down of its own accord within a few days, as a part of the nitrifying bacteria converting this product becoming fully established in the cycle -- but you'll still need to do enough PWC's to keep the nitrite down. Getting back to the ammonia, while no amount of it is any good for your fishes (it impacts a stress on them), dropping the temperature of the water will go a long way in keeping this ammonia from becoming lethal at your pH 8.0, if not using Prime. Glad to see that you invested in this fine water conditioner. > > > > > > > > At pH 8.0, 1.0 ppm of ammonia is lethal to many different species of fishes at only 62 o, so you salt is obviously doing its job in preventing this from happening, as well too is the Prime helping with this issue. Note, that at pH 7.8, this same 1.00 ppm of ammonia doesn't become toxic until reaching 73 o, so it's very important to get as accurate a pH reading as you can determine. Still at the pH of 8.0 though, a much lower 0.5 ppm ammonia becomes lethal at 80 o (and toxic at 68 o). Also, at this same pH, a level of 0.25 ammonia does not become lethal, nor does it even become toxic, even at 80 o or more. The Prime will ensure that any Free Ammonia will not exist, but even ammonium, as relatively harmless as it is to fish, will exert some stress on them, which is why it's best to keep the ammonia (ammonium) reading down at all times during a tank cycling. To answer your question, it's much better on the fish to keep toxic levels down at all times, even though this means to stretch out the cycle. Maintaining really high levels of ammonia and nitrite, even for just a very short period, is extremely dangerous to fishes as there can reach a point when they become lethal if only at that level for an hour. Also, nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia, so it's something you need to keep at a minimum, and drop the temperature somewhat during this period to help your fishes get through it. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I have 2 mollies, 1 platy and 3 white cloud in a 10 Gallon aquarium that I started new 10 days ago. > > > > > > > > > > I am doing partial water changes 3 times a week to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low (and have 2 Tablespoon salt in the water). The ammonia levels are approx. 0.5 -1 ppm since days. In the fish shop today they tried to convince me that I should stop water changes and just let everything proceed until the aquarium had cycled itself. > > > > > I wonder what is more dangerous: really high levels of ammonia for some days or low levels for a longer time? > > > > > > > > > > Is it right that the aquarium will be cycled in the end if I continue water changes? To me it seems more reasonable to keep toxic levels down even if it might take longer...In the internet are too many opinions but maybe someone has first hand experience with this way? > > > > > > > > > > How is your experience with additional chemicals like Amquel or Prime? > > > > > Is it better to just change partial water or are those chemicals easier on the fish? > > > > > > > > > > The fish seem happy but how do I notice if levels are too high and affecting them? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52814	From: William M	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

Chloramine is the combination of chlorine and ammonia. It is put into tap water at the pumps so that chlorine woudl not evaporate and the cities and towns could save money by not having to use as much chlorine and also there should not be high places where chlorine would be above safe levels and other places had none. I do not know how long it takes for chloramine to break up if left undisturbed. But Prime and other products that are used for chloramine should work fast to break up the bond and make them safe in a fairly fast manner. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > This is not true for chloramines in the water. These take quite a long > time to out-gas (weeks I believe). > > Amber > > On 12/31/2011 6:22 PM, Grady Ferguson wrote: > > > > putting tap water in a bucket, and letting it set for at least 24 > > hours will allow most impurities to settle to bottom of > > bucket.cyphining the water off the top for use during regular > > replentishing. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52815	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/1/2012
Subject: Re: ammonia levels, cycling aquarium

Hi Ray and everyone, thank a lot for all the help! I must admit at the beginning and I had no idea how much is involved in a new tank and how bad it can get for the fish ... But I am really glad to get more knowledge about the details and appreciate the time everyone spends for explaining! (I love science and I am glad about the opportunity to use my brain a little more ;). It also helps me a lot for the future to get background information/ info about the process in the water and also the different possible approaches give me a better idea for the options. Today I bought Tetra Safe start (they did not carry Dr. Tim's one and only) and I just filled it in the tank (after a PWC again...the water got really cloudy). Fortunately everything seems a little better now (ammonia probably gone, nitrite around 1 ppm with the PWC's and maybe some nitrate already). So far all the fish are there and I hope in time they will forgive me the constant water changes ;) Thank you all very much! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Don't be too concerned about your messages possibly being a little out of order. It appears that we all got the meaning(s) of them. There are times here too, when my (and perhaps other's) messages may also be "out of order," sometimes purposefully in an attempt to stress more important points first. > > It looks like you have a good handle on everything all of us tried to help you with. With obtaining an all-liquid master test kit -- containing all the needed individual tests -- you'll be able to be more on top of just what your water parameter values are. Looks like things are progressing fairly well so far; just keep up with the PWC's to keep the nitrite down. I saw where you indicated that you feel your pH is coloser to 7.8 as I suspected. This would partially explain your fish remaining fairly well despite the high ammonia level during that recent period. > > Yes, I believe the salt you used from the beginning prevented any detrimental effects, and fortunately so. Salt is really not generally needed, even for Mollies -- if you water is otherwise hard and basic (above pH 7.0), although not all fishes enjoy hard water. You were lucky to have thought of using salt from the beginning, undoubtedly because of the Mollies, but as long as you had only 1/8 teaspoon per gallon of it before your ammonia or nitrite started to escalate, your fish should have been safe from their toxic effects. I did happen to see a post recently (I don't remember whoch Forum), which recommended your doubling up on the salt content you now have. Just wanted to add this is not at all necessary -- unless your parameters escalated before adding salt. > > While maintaining fishes does include more than first meets the eye, and requires the uses of a lot of science, most of this science is really basic after you realize what it entails. If any of it is beyond you, don't let it get the better of you. We're here to help, and are more than pleased to be able to do so. Please feel free to continue to ask us anything you don't fully understand. We enjoy nothing better than to see new hobbyists succeed. Oh, on that "Dr. Tim's" bacteria additive, it's not exactly cheap but is well worth it's price. As long as you stay on top of things though, you may not need it but that's up to you -- it can be useful stuff even when part way into establishing a cycle. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray and everybody, > > > > thanks again for all the information! > > I think my messages came a little out of order too (they moderated I think and that might mix up a response a little bit). In any case I am glad for all the responses! > > > > Having fish really includes a lot of science! > > I think I have to read everything twice to not miss some information. > > > > Just a brief update: I think fortunately my ammonia levels are almost or exactly 0 now (2-3 days now). The tank temperature fluctuates a little between 78 and 80. It seems if I switch off the light at night it goes down a little and then up with the light. Even though the heater should be temperature regulated. According to the stripes I think the ph was rather 7.8 than 8 but the exact value is really hard to tell with the color code of the stripes :( > > But the nitrite is still coming up every day since 2-3 days now but I start to see some color on the nitrate stripe too. I do not remember which bacteria brand I used in the beginning but I hope they shortened the cycle a little bit and I might be lucky that I only have to deal with the nitrite... It might have been the "good" brand you mentioned before (but not Dr. Tim's) > > I still do (since maybe 4 days) daily partial water changes (maybe 50%) to keep the nitrite levels down and add Prime now in the normal (or maybe double) dose...I will try to locate Dr. Tim's bacteria, thanks! > > > > According to your info the fish came really very close to a too high exposure of both toxins. I am lucky they are still there and seem mostly ok. > > But I notice that at least one was affected unfortunately by the temporary higher levels of ammonia or nitrite. One more than the others. He swims close to the surface, does not swim much around and I noticed the heavy gill movement days ago. That was when I had the brief peak in nitrite. He is better now and I hope the Prime prevents further problems. The other fish still seem ok, only stressed by the frequent water changes. Especially one started to hide when I come, I think he expects another intrusion in his tank...I am glad the salt might have prevented the worst! > > > > Thanks again, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again Nora, > > > > > > As for testing your tap water for Ammonia and Nitrite, if it contains chloramine as added by your water company, you can expect it will test positive for ammonia -- it's just how much ammonia that's the question. Your Prime will take care of that though, and will also take care of any ammonia being produced as fish waste. Nitrite can also be found in tap water, so determining that would go a long way in deciding how to proceed with your water issues. > > > > > > I noticed on another Forum (Uniquarium) that you used double the normal dose of Prime with your first PWC, and the fish were fine, but when using 4 times the normal dose of Prime with your next (50%) PWC, your fish weren't acting exactly right. I don't know if there's any limit that's been deemed by the aquarium community as being safe, only that SeaChem has recommended their standard dose in their directions. As the fish were still fine at 2 X the normal dose, it would seem to still be safe at that dosage, so I wouldn't discontinue its use -- just cut back from 4 X the dosage. After determining your nitrite levels of both your tap water and of your tank water, your best method for it's removal may still be via PWC's if your tap water is determined to contain little or no nitrite. > > > > > > Off-gassing (allowing the excess CO2 to dissipate) will not affect your ammonia nor nitrite reading, but MAY see a difference in your pH test from the time the water is first drawn to the 24 hour period it's allowed to stand. > > > > > > Getting back to your question (on Uniquaria) of what the water conditioner/additive "Stabilize" is, it was apparently formulated as a liquid bio-media, used to promote your cycle; it is advertised as having live nitrifying bacteria. Please know that while the original formula seemed to work for some hobbyists, many others did not have as good results with it. Still, if it appeared to work, it might be worth a try anyway -- EXCEPT for the fact that the formula has been reported to have been changed. As a result, Many more hobbyists are reporting having negative results with it, and fewer are having positive results with it. > > > > > > There are several other similar products designed to act the same way, "Start Smart" (by TLC) being one of them, as also is "SuperBac" sold by Big Al's (on on-line aquarium retailer). Tetra also offers their "Safe Start," but as live nitrifying bacteria need a constant source of oxygen to survive -- unless specially formulated to decrease their metabolism (and none of these products thus far mentioned are), they become useless in short time -- if they ever were useful (?). There is only one such live nitrifying bacteria on the market that I know of that is actually viable and functional, and this one was formulated by Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec, as containing live aerobic autotrophic nitrobacteraceae, being named "Dr. Tim's One and Only." This product needs to be refrigerated to remain viable and even then it's shelf life is limited -- although vastly extended from the "Bio-Spira" product he previously developed when working for Marineland. "Bio-Spira's" formula has now been changed (by Marineland) and no longer needs to be refrigerated, by I need to question how well it still works compared to how extremely successful it first was as it's original formula product. > > > > > > If you want a product to jump-start your nitrogen cycle, get Dr. Hovanec's product (not easy to find as its refrigeration requirement limits the number of stores wanting to carry it). Most other so-called bacteria additives simply don't work as advertised, or their action is delayed by several weeks as they contain not aerobic autotrophic nitrifying bacteria, but instead facultative anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria not needing oxygen and first needing to break down excess foods and fish waste by putrification before any nitrifying bacteria can even start these bacteria' by-products. So, don't waste your money on them. I'm replying to your Uniquaria questions on this List as when I reply on Uniquaria my posts can often be delayed be several days. This is not mrant as any reflection on the owner of that list as I know he's very busy, and has even so stated this to us on yet another List we both moderate. > > > > > > Ray -- Moderator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > thanks for all the info! It helps a lot to get more detailed information than just having to guess. > > > > I was hoping with Prime I have found the miracle solution but it seems it is not that easy.... > > > > > > > > My ammonia readings were 0 or very low (with the stripes it is hard to say) the last two times so it seems my cycle works quite fast. Maybe the bacteria I added in the beginning were helping. > > > > On the other hand: I had added one time a tablet against ammonia so I wonder if that affects the readings? I did two water changes in the meantime so I thought I would have measured something nevertheless if it was there... > > > > > > > > In any case I will continue the PWC's daily and add Prime and hope it will work out. > > > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > > > > > As Amber has told you, don't stop doing PWC's, and as Dawn has said, don't change too much at any one time. It's better to change 1.5 gallons every day than 3 gallons every other day. Still, depending on your ammonia and nitrite readings, you will have to change whatever amount of water it takes every day to keep these organic waste product levels from reaching levels that would be toxic to your fishes -- even though changing water will extend the cycling time -- and here I'm more concerned about your nitrite levels. This is yet another reason for not cycling a tank with fish in it, but it's too late to enter this part into the scenario since you already have them. > > > > > > > > > > I'm reminded here that you're just a little past 10 days into the cycle, at which time the ammonia generally spikes. You can expect your nitrite to climb higher than what it reads now if you don't make larger PWC's every day; keep monitoring it. A nitrite level of 5.0 ppm will be lethal to all your fishes, regardless of pH or temperature. > > > > > > > > > > In all I've read from you, I haven't seen you mention what you keep the temperature of the tank at. While this is a lessor factor than pH when considering how toxic any ammonia or nitrite might be, it still enters into the picture and can be a deciding factor on just how toxic these DOS's (Dissolved Organic Solids) ultimately become. Noticed your pH is 8.0 -- BUT, you need to make sure this is an accurate reading when giving this parameter to us, and not just something "close," as this is what we'll need in knowing how to advise you further. That your fishes seemingly aren't suffering, would indicate to me that your pH might be somewhat lower, but I have no way of knowing this. That you added, and are maintaining, salt since the very beginning has given your fishes a great benefit in them remaining relatively free from the toxic effects of ammonia, and can be slightly helpful with nitrite problems, although this compound (salt) will not fully address this latter problem. > > > > > > > > > > You should see the ammonia level start to go down of its own accord within a few days, as a part of the nitrifying bacteria converting this product becoming fully established in the cycle -- but you'll still need to do enough PWC's to keep the nitrite down. Getting back to the ammonia, while no amount of it is any good for your fishes (it impacts a stress on them), dropping the temperature of the water will go a long way in keeping this ammonia from becoming lethal at your pH 8.0, if not using Prime. Glad to see that you invested in this fine water conditioner. > > > > > > > > > > At pH 8.0, 1.0 ppm of ammonia is lethal to many different species of fishes at only 62 o, so you salt is obviously doing its job in preventing this from happening, as well too is the Prime helping with this issue. Note, that at pH 7.8, this same 1.00 ppm of ammonia doesn't become toxic until reaching 73 o, so it's very important to get as accurate a pH reading as you can determine. Still at the pH of 8.0 though, a much lower 0.5 ppm ammonia becomes lethal at 80 o (and toxic at 68 o). Also, at this same pH, a level of 0.25 ammonia does not become lethal, nor does it even become toxic, even at 80 o or more. The Prime will ensure that any Free Ammonia will not exist, but even ammonium, as relatively harmless as it is to fish, will exert some stress on them, which is why it's best to keep the ammonia (ammonium) reading down at all times during a tank cycling. To answer your question, it's much better on the fish to keep toxic levels down at all times, even though this means to stretch out the cycle. Maintaining really high levels of ammonia and nitrite, even for just a very short period, is extremely dangerous to fishes as there can reach a point when they become lethal if only at that level for an hour. Also, nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia, so it's something you need to keep at a minimum, and drop the temperature somewhat during this period to help your fishes get through it. > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 2 mollies, 1 platy and 3 white cloud in a 10 Gallon aquarium that I started new 10 days ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am doing partial water changes 3 times a week to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels low (and have 2 Tablespoon salt in the water). The ammonia levels are approx. 0.5 -1 ppm since days. In the fish shop today they tried to convince me that I should stop water changes and just let everything proceed until the aquarium had cycled itself. > > > > > > I wonder what is more dangerous: really high levels of ammonia for some days or low levels for a longer time? > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it right that the aquarium will be cycled in the end if I continue water changes? To me it seems more reasonable to keep toxic levels down even if it might take longer...In the internet are too many opinions but maybe someone has first hand experience with this way? > > > > > > > > > > > > How is your experience with additional chemicals like Amquel or Prime? > > > > > > Is it better to just change partial water or are those chemicals easier on the fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > The fish seem happy but how do I notice if levels are too high and affecting them? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52816	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Tetra Safe Start bacteria worked quite well

Hi all, I used yesterday evening Tetra Safe Start bacteria (a bottle suitable for up to 15 Gallons, I had maybe 1 ppm nitrite and did a 50% water change before using the bottle) and today in the morning and evening as well there was no (or almost no) nitrite :) It seems this is really a brand that works.... thanks for the recommendation! I could also see that the one fish that was less active over the previous days started over night to be more active again too. Great there are such products out there! I stopped the PWC's for the moment to let the bacteria settle and will see how the aquarium continues. Finally there is time to plan ahead and just enjoy the fish! Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52817	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi all, our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. Regarding the plants: - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? - is there a danger for the water values? - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? Regarding the fish in community tanks: we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. Right now we have the following fish: 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) 1 platy (red/black) 3 golden white clouds - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? Thanks a lot for advice, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52818	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi again, we would also be interested in glow light Tetra or crabs or ? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > Regarding the plants: > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > - is there a danger for the water values? > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > Right now we have the following fish: > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > 1 platy (red/black) > 3 golden white clouds > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > Thanks a lot for advice, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52819	From: Alex Mejia	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hello Nora, Glad to hear things are working out for you so far. Like you; I was once a beginner full questions and little knowledge of fish and their environment. My aquarium (80 gallons) has now been set up and running for a little over 2 year. Thanks to the group I have been able to keep my fish alive after little success and lots of unnecessary deaths. While I can definitely understand wanting to get a bit more adventurous let me suggest you give it some time and get used to your current set up. See what works and what does not. It was just recently that I was able to successfully introduce live plants. Before that I was using plastic/fake plants. As someone else said before. This is a hobby where patience should be exercised and can be very important. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52820	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: question about pairing JD's

I am attempting to put together a breeding pair of Jack Dempsies consisting of a electric blue male and an EB carrier female. My male is about 2 1/2" long, flashes at his own reflection, and is building nests in various locations by clearing away rocks to leave the glass bottom of his tank exposed. I am thinking that I need to introduce some females ASAP. The only blue carrier females I can locate in my area are about 3 1/2" long. The fish store owner has assured me that they are not aggressive in nature and will not hurt my EB male. I think that they are too large making this fish choice too risky. Is this a correct assumption? The dealer also has some smaller JD which are about 1 1/2" to 2" in size however he does not know if these carry the blue gene or not. He says that they are too young to be able to tell. I think I am better off going with the smaller fish?? ~Tamara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52821	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/3/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Alex, yes I understand. It is just that I read that especially Mollies can benefit from live plants so I have some motivation of trying soon if possible... You mentioned only recently you were successful with live plants: in which way did it not work out before? Did the plant die or were the fish or water quality affected? Thanks for info, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello Nora, > > > > Glad to hear things are working out for you so far. > > > > Like you; I was once a beginner full questions and little knowledge of fish > and their environment. My aquarium (80 gallons) has now been set up and > running for a little over 2 year. Thanks to the group I have been able to > keep my fish alive after little success and lots of unnecessary deaths. > > > > While I can definitely understand wanting to get a bit more adventurous let > me suggest you give it some time and get used to your current set up. See > what works and what does not. It was just recently that I was able to > successfully introduce live plants. Before that I was using plastic/fake > plants. > > > > As someone else said before. This is a hobby where patience should be > exercised and can be very important. > > > > Alex > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52822	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Your tank is currently over-stocked (unfortunately that happens very quickly with 10 gallon tanks). If you want a larger variety of community fish you'll have to upgrade your tank for (at least) a 20 gallon, preferably something closer to 30 gallons. Adding live plants will help add oxygen to the water (while the lights are on), and will also help lower the nitrates produced from the fish. Depending on the type of plants you get you won't have to add anything extra (fertilizers, special gravel). If you're going to get them from a local fish store (LFS) then ask which plants are low light plants, these require the least amount of extra care. If they can't answer that question then I would suggest writing down the plant names they have and coming back home and researching them on the internet. Often times you will find pond plants in with regular aquatic plants, and some pond plants cannot grow fully summerged, and therefor will slowly die in a fully aquatic environment. Not to mention that some plants they sell are going to require a lot more nutrients/lighting than easy to care for low-light plants. Try to look for java fern, anubias, horn wort, naja (or guppy) grass, and even some amazon sword plants will do fine in low lighting, just make sure to pick plants that are not very colorful. The more colorful (such as red plants) require more nutrients and HIGH lighting most of the time, so they will quickly wither and die if you're not giving them what they need. As far as adding them, you can add them all at once if you want to, it's not going to upset the balance of the tank, but may upset the fish with all the rearranging and movement in their tank. I would not suggest plastic plants (especially hard plastic) as fish will often injure themselves on the plastic plants, but you can purchase silk plants which will move in the water and look (almost) like real plants. Check out: www.plantgeek.net Very good site on plants, you can search for plants just on lighting requirements, or even placement in the tank (such as background plants that grow large or very tall). Feel free to ask any more questions and I'll do my best to help you out with your plants. Amber On 1/3/2012 3:23 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi all, > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the > help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be > stable. > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are > thinking about the final setup. > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we > would like to add a few more fish. > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up > more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as > possible. > > Regarding the plants: > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > time? > - is there a danger for the water values? > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > get? Does it matter? > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the > water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning > for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > Right now we have the following fish: > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > 1 platy (red/black) > 3 golden white clouds > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. > It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies > instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions > (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school > or be included in that one? > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with > peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places > to hide like plants and caves? > > Thanks a lot for advice, > Nora > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52823	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Nora, Noticed you added "one" Anacharis plant to your tank. These bunch plants (ANY bunch plants) should not be planted as one bunch, all clumped together as they are sold. Instead, the tie that holds all the individual strands together should be removed and these strands should be planted individually -- somewhat close toether to appear as one bunch yet with some space in between the strands to allow water to freely circulate between them and to allow light to reach between all the strands. Neglecting to do this will result in the bottom-most sections of these strands to die off after several weeks. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > yes I understand. It is just that I read that especially Mollies can benefit from live plants so I have some motivation of trying soon if possible... > > You mentioned only recently you were successful with live plants: in which way did it not work out before? Did the plant die or were the fish or water quality affected? > > Thanks for info, > Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@> wrote: > > > > Hello Nora, > > > > > > > > Glad to hear things are working out for you so far. > > > > > > > > Like you; I was once a beginner full questions and little knowledge of fish > > and their environment. My aquarium (80 gallons) has now been set up and > > running for a little over 2 year. Thanks to the group I have been able to > > keep my fish alive after little success and lots of unnecessary deaths. > > > > > > > > While I can definitely understand wanting to get a bit more adventurous let > > me suggest you give it some time and get used to your current set up. See > > what works and what does not. It was just recently that I was able to > > successfully introduce live plants. Before that I was using plastic/fake > > plants. > > > > > > > > As someone else said before. This is a hobby where patience should be > > exercised and can be very important. > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52824	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tetra Safe Start bacteria worked quite well

Nora, It should be no wonder that your nitrite is now at zero -- and that the product you added "seems" to work. Tetra Safe Start is the replacement for the original Marineland BioSpira, which has since been discontinued. It has functional nitrifying bacteria, and apparently was fairly fresh. You made a good choice. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I used yesterday evening Tetra Safe Start bacteria (a bottle suitable for up to 15 Gallons, I had maybe 1 ppm nitrite and did a 50% water change before using the bottle) and today in the morning and evening as well there was no (or almost no) nitrite :) > It seems this is really a brand that works.... thanks for the recommendation! > I could also see that the one fish that was less active over the previous days started over night to be more active again too. > Great there are such products out there! > > I stopped the PWC's for the moment to let the bacteria settle and will see how the aquarium continues. > > Finally there is time to plan ahead and just enjoy the fish! > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52825	From: Ray	Date: 1/4/2012
Subject: Re: question about pairing JD's

Ideally, of course, it's preferable that the two partners be near the same size. That they may not be does not preclude that they can't be paired up. Fortunately, female substrate-spawning Cichlids such as Jack Dempseys are not as territorial as males. With consideration that you might be introducing multiple females with this smaller male, no one female should have cause to be overly aggressive towards this smaller male in the presence of others of their own gender as now there will be competition for this mate. The fact that you're supplying several females should ensure that any attentions that any one female pays to this male in their presence would most likely lead to bonding rather than shear aggression once they (the male and the eventual mate) find compatability, their bonding is assured. While quite often, such Cichlids will resort to testing each other's strength in engaging in "wrestling" each other -- especially when only one of each gender is used in trying to obtain a pair -- whenever there is a choice available, "testing" each other is not necessarily part of an eventual bonding. Then too, many bondings between just a pair (male and female) of Cichlids otherwise strangers to each other will at times result in mutual bondings without their going through the testing ritual when they both decide from the outset that they prefer each other without having to resort to wrestling. It's helpful (but not always necessary) to introduce two Cichlids of the opposite sex with a divider in the tank at first, and then to observe them while they get used to each other before actually putting them together with removal of the divider. This more gradual method of introduction will help the two fish get used to each other more gradually, often leading to the omission of the testing part of the courtship. That you're intending on using several females, this tactic of using a divider is not necessary but just included here to demonstrate Cichlid behavior and a way to lessen the unfamiliarity between individuals. At the size you're referring to, it's unlikely that these fish are yet mature, especially the male at only 2 1/2". Electric Blue male Dempseys don't get as large as normal males of this species though, so there may be this possibility. The females, at only 3 1/2", should not be anything to cause much concern over yet either, if it's aggression you're worried about as they're barely mature -- if that! -- even without them being in plural. Starting with 1 1/2" to 2" Dempseys of unknown genetic make-up is a gamble at best however, since you can't even know if the blue gene is carried by any one of them. My choice would not be the smaller fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@...> wrote: > > I am attempting to put together a breeding pair of Jack Dempsies consisting > of a electric blue male and an EB carrier female. My male is about 2 1/2" > long, flashes at his own reflection, and is building nests in various > locations by clearing away rocks to leave the glass bottom of his tank > exposed. I am thinking that I need to introduce some females ASAP. The > only blue carrier females I can locate in my area are about 3 1/2" long. The > fish store owner has assured me that they are not aggressive in nature and > will not hurt my EB male. I think that they are too large making this fish > choice too risky. Is this a correct assumption? The dealer also has some > smaller JD which are about 1 1/2" to 2" in size however he does not know if > these carry the blue gene or not. He says that they are too young to be able > to tell. I think I am better off going with the smaller fish?? > > ~Tamara >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52826	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

I have to agree with Amber that this tank is fully stocked. (if not slightly over stocked depending on what types of mollys you have... sailfin mollys would make for a very overstocked tank once they are adult, as they can easily reach 3 - 5 inches each in length) I would like to add about the lighting, it sounds as if you have an incandescent light fixture instead of a florescent one. I would not suggest trying to grow hornwort or amazon swords under incandescent lighting. Also, if you decide to start adding live plants you will want to be sure you have both bulbs in the fixture, not just one. A single incandescent bulb isn't going to work for even things like anubias and java fern... it just simply isn't enough light output. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > Regarding the plants: > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > - is there a danger for the water values? > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > Right now we have the following fish: > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > 1 platy (red/black) > 3 golden white clouds > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > Thanks a lot for advice, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52828	From: birddog541@yahoo.com	Date: 1/5/2012
Subject: I have a new Verizon Yahoo! email address

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I have a brand new Verizon Yahoo! email address; birddog541@.... Please update your address book and send me emails at this new address from now on. Thanks! Kevin Mintmier

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52829	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and nitrite) this is a special bonus. On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL bulbs. Hope this is of some help. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Regarding the plants: > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > - is there a danger for the water values? > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52830	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Ray, yes, I had cut the rubber band and have them floating since a few days. I will put them into the gravel today with a water change so I hope it will not disturb the fish too much. They look great and make the tank much nicer. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Noticed you added "one" Anacharis plant to your tank. These bunch plants (ANY bunch plants) should not be planted as one bunch, all clumped together as they are sold. Instead, the tie that holds all the individual strands together should be removed and these strands should be planted individually -- somewhat close toether to appear as one bunch yet with some space in between the strands to allow water to freely circulate between them and to allow light to reach between all the strands. Neglecting to do this will result in the bottom-most sections of these strands to die off after several weeks. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > yes I understand. It is just that I read that especially Mollies can benefit from live plants so I have some motivation of trying soon if possible... > > > > You mentioned only recently you were successful with live plants: in which way did it not work out before? Did the plant die or were the fish or water quality affected? > > > > Thanks for info, > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Mejia <AMejia1976@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello Nora, > > > > > > > > > > > > Glad to hear things are working out for you so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like you; I was once a beginner full questions and little knowledge of fish > > > and their environment. My aquarium (80 gallons) has now been set up and > > > running for a little over 2 year. Thanks to the group I have been able to > > > keep my fish alive after little success and lots of unnecessary deaths. > > > > > > > > > > > > While I can definitely understand wanting to get a bit more adventurous let > > > me suggest you give it some time and get used to your current set up. See > > > what works and what does not. It was just recently that I was able to > > > successfully introduce live plants. Before that I was using plastic/fake > > > plants. > > > > > > > > > > > > As someone else said before. This is a hobby where patience should be > > > exercised and can be very important. > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52831	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi again, we had added 3 guppies 2 days ago and I agree that it is a lot of fish. I will see how it goes and I can still upgrade the tank. The fish get along very well. Even the molly that was hiding a lot and seemed easily stressed after all the PWC's is now swimming with the others and seems much more comfortable in its behavior. I think the present of the other fish makes it feel safer (?) I will make sure that the tank has separate corners so they can escape from each other if they like. (They are all males so there will be no breeding) Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I have to agree with Amber that this tank is fully stocked. (if not slightly over stocked depending on what types of mollys you have... sailfin mollys would make for a very overstocked tank once they are adult, as they can easily reach 3 - 5 inches each in length) > > I would like to add about the lighting, it sounds as if you have an incandescent light fixture instead of a florescent one. I would not suggest trying to grow hornwort or amazon swords under incandescent lighting. Also, if you decide to start adding live plants you will want to be sure you have both bulbs in the fixture, not just one. A single incandescent bulb isn't going to work for even things like anubias and java fern... it just simply isn't enough light output. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > 1 platy (red/black) > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52832	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Amber, thanks for all the info. I will check out the website you mentioned! I will also change our light bulb to a more plant friendly one and will add one. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Your tank is currently over-stocked (unfortunately that happens very > quickly with 10 gallon tanks). If you want a larger variety of community > fish you'll have to upgrade your tank for (at least) a 20 gallon, > preferably something closer to 30 gallons. > Adding live plants will help add oxygen to the water (while the lights > are on), and will also help lower the nitrates produced from the fish. > Depending on the type of plants you get you won't have to add anything > extra (fertilizers, special gravel). If you're going to get them from a > local fish store (LFS) then ask which plants are low light plants, these > require the least amount of extra care. If they can't answer that > question then I would suggest writing down the plant names they have and > coming back home and researching them on the internet. Often times you > will find pond plants in with regular aquatic plants, and some pond > plants cannot grow fully summerged, and therefor will slowly die in a > fully aquatic environment. Not to mention that some plants they sell are > going to require a lot more nutrients/lighting than easy to care for > low-light plants. Try to look for java fern, anubias, horn wort, naja > (or guppy) grass, and even some amazon sword plants will do fine in low > lighting, just make sure to pick plants that are not very colorful. The > more colorful (such as red plants) require more nutrients and HIGH > lighting most of the time, so they will quickly wither and die if you're > not giving them what they need. As far as adding them, you can add them > all at once if you want to, it's not going to upset the balance of the > tank, but may upset the fish with all the rearranging and movement in > their tank. I would not suggest plastic plants (especially hard plastic) > as fish will often injure themselves on the plastic plants, but you can > purchase silk plants which will move in the water and look (almost) like > real plants. > Check out: > www.plantgeek.net > Very good site on plants, you can search for plants just on lighting > requirements, or even placement in the tank (such as background plants > that grow large or very tall). > > Feel free to ask any more questions and I'll do my best to help you out > with your plants. > > Amber > > On 1/3/2012 3:23 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the > > help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be > > stable. > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are > > thinking about the final setup. > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we > > would like to add a few more fish. > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up > > more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as > > possible. > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the > > water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning > > for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > 1 platy (red/black) > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. > > It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies > > instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions > > (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school > > or be included in that one? > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with > > peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places > > to hide like plants and caves? > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52833	From: Ray	Date: 1/6/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi again Nora, Before going very much further, I've noticed that you've repeatedly written about getting info off the internet. Just wanted to warn you that not all websites are equal. There are numerous websites on the 'Net, some even being copycats of others, which appear as being very authoritative and knowledgeable -- but actually contain much erroneous and misleading information, as anyone can put up a website or post on the 'Net without having to know anything. Yes, there are those who would make you believe they know everything there is to know about tropical fish, but would be lucky to know the difference between a goldfish and a guppy. Without knowing beforehand whether the knowledge you get off of the internet is correct, there is no way of knowing how accurate any of these internet sources are; and of course, you wouldn't know the difference or you wouldn't be looking for the info in the first place if you did. Unless otherwise knowing yourself, the internet is not the place to get information from when it comes to tropical fishes. You would do best by investing in at least one good book on aquarium basics, such as a Baensch Atlas Volume I, which can still be found on eBay and AquaBid quite often. Now, getting to lighting for growing live plants, I notice that you don't "want to shine too much light into the aquarium." If your only reason for this is that the lights through off a lot of heat, I might guess (especially as you have two, which can be turned on and off independently), that you have incandescent bulbs. Restricting the amount of light though, will not grow plants as they need about 6 to 8 hours of light to do well. As incandescent aquarium bulbs are offered in 25 Watt and 40 Watt capacities, and as you need about 3 Watts per gallon when it comes to this type of lighting, you'd do best with two 25 Watt bulbs, keeping them both lit for about 6 hours a day for starters until you see how the plants flourish. If you feel the water is being heated by them too much, you can always raise them up a bit to allow for some ventilatilation, provided you have an acrylic cover on top of the tank to prevent any fish from jumping out. Provided the fish are all larger, like your Mollies, there's a plastic "egg-crate" material used for flourescent ceiling lights (and found in Home Depot) that can be used when cut to size, which will allow for further ventilation of the water surface, but smaller fish may jump through it and out; it's made of 5/8" squares. Some hobbyists who haven't been in the hobby all that long prefer fluorescent lighting as they don't have any success with incandescent lights (and fluorescents are cooler), but early on in the hobby we didn't have the luxury of fluorescent lighting -- yet I used to grow very prosperous and full Amazon Sword Plants, Sagittaria, Anacharis, Valisneria and many other aquatic plants under incandescent lights, even had them blooming. There's nothing at all wrong with growing the more basic selections of aquatic plants with incandescent lights, except for the heat issue which can be worked around. We've all done it in earlier years, very successfully. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > Regarding the plants: > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > - is there a danger for the water values? > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > Right now we have the following fish: > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > 1 platy (red/black) > 3 golden white clouds > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > Thanks a lot for advice, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52834	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Ray, Thanks again for the additional infos. Because of the web: Yes, I noticed that different websites sometimes provided different informations... I started to read up a topic on many different sites to get an idea about the variety of opinion. As soon as I can get to it I will also check the library for some more material. Is there a (or more) book you could recommend especially? Because of the plants: Thanks for the suggestions! I have a pre-made black plastic lid on top that came with the aquarium and fits around the filter (I also have some smaller fish). So I bought a day light 6500K lamp (they had only one left at the store) and it is amazing how much more light it gives...I will use it above the plant and will see how the anacharis will like it or if I need a second one. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi again Nora, > > Before going very much further, I've noticed that you've repeatedly written about getting info off the internet. Just wanted to warn you that not all websites are equal. There are numerous websites on the 'Net, some even being copycats of others, which appear as being very authoritative and knowledgeable -- but actually contain much erroneous and misleading information, as anyone can put up a website or post on the 'Net without having to know anything. Yes, there are those who would make you believe they know everything there is to know about tropical fish, but would be lucky to know the difference between a goldfish and a guppy. > > Without knowing beforehand whether the knowledge you get off of the internet is correct, there is no way of knowing how accurate any of these internet sources are; and of course, you wouldn't know the difference or you wouldn't be looking for the info in the first place if you did. Unless otherwise knowing yourself, the internet is not the place to get information from when it comes to tropical fishes. You would do best by investing in at least one good book on aquarium basics, such as a Baensch Atlas Volume I, which can still be found on eBay and AquaBid quite often. > > Now, getting to lighting for growing live plants, I notice that you don't "want to shine too much light into the aquarium." If your only reason for this is that the lights through off a lot of heat, I might guess (especially as you have two, which can be turned on and off independently), that you have incandescent bulbs. Restricting the amount of light though, will not grow plants as they need about 6 to 8 hours of light to do well. As incandescent aquarium bulbs are offered in 25 Watt and 40 Watt capacities, and as you need about 3 Watts per gallon when it comes to this type of lighting, you'd do best with two 25 Watt bulbs, keeping them both lit for about 6 hours a day for starters until you see how the plants flourish. > > If you feel the water is being heated by them too much, you can always raise them up a bit to allow for some ventilatilation, provided you have an acrylic cover on top of the tank to prevent any fish from jumping out. Provided the fish are all larger, like your Mollies, there's a plastic "egg-crate" material used for flourescent ceiling lights (and found in Home Depot) that can be used when cut to size, which will allow for further ventilation of the water surface, but smaller fish may jump through it and out; it's made of 5/8" squares. > > Some hobbyists who haven't been in the hobby all that long prefer fluorescent lighting as they don't have any success with incandescent lights (and fluorescents are cooler), but early on in the hobby we didn't have the luxury of fluorescent lighting -- yet I used to grow very prosperous and full Amazon Sword Plants, Sagittaria, Anacharis, Valisneria and many other aquatic plants under incandescent lights, even had them blooming. There's nothing at all wrong with growing the more basic selections of aquatic plants with incandescent lights, except for the heat issue which can be worked around. We've all done it in earlier years, very successfully. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > 1 platy (red/black) > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52835	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Bryon, I got a 6500K day light lamp yesterday. It is amazing how much brighter the aquarium looks... I will check for the Vllisneria! Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL bulbs. > > Hope this is of some help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52836	From: Curtis Taylor	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Amber: Is plantgeek.net down? Page comes up saying "Account Has Been Suspended". Attempted to access the site from different computers, even smartphones and we are met with same page. CRT On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > Your tank is currently over-stocked (unfortunately that happens very > quickly with 10 gallon tanks). If you want a larger variety of community > fish you'll have to upgrade your tank for (at least) a 20 gallon, > preferably something closer to 30 gallons. > Adding live plants will help add oxygen to the water (while the lights > are on), and will also help lower the nitrates produced from the fish. > Depending on the type of plants you get you won't have to add anything > extra (fertilizers, special gravel). If you're going to get them from a > local fish store (LFS) then ask which plants are low light plants, these > require the least amount of extra care. If they can't answer that > question then I would suggest writing down the plant names they have and > coming back home and researching them on the internet. Often times you > will find pond plants in with regular aquatic plants, and some pond > plants cannot grow fully summerged, and therefor will slowly die in a > fully aquatic environment. Not to mention that some plants they sell are > going to require a lot more nutrients/lighting than easy to care for > low-light plants. Try to look for java fern, anubias, horn wort, naja > (or guppy) grass, and even some amazon sword plants will do fine in low > lighting, just make sure to pick plants that are not very colorful. The > more colorful (such as red plants) require more nutrients and HIGH > lighting most of the time, so they will quickly wither and die if you're > not giving them what they need. As far as adding them, you can add them > all at once if you want to, it's not going to upset the balance of the > tank, but may upset the fish with all the rearranging and movement in > their tank. I would not suggest plastic plants (especially hard plastic) > as fish will often injure themselves on the plastic plants, but you can > purchase silk plants which will move in the water and look (almost) like > real plants. > Check out: > www.plantgeek.net > Very good site on plants, you can search for plants just on lighting > requirements, or even placement in the tank (such as background plants > that grow large or very tall). > > Feel free to ask any more questions and I'll do my best to help you out > with your plants. > > Amber > > > On 1/3/2012 3:23 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the > > help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be > > stable. > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are > > thinking about the final setup. > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we > > would like to add a few more fish. > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up > > more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as > > possible. > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the > > water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning > > for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > 1 platy (red/black) > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. > > It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies > > instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions > > (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school > > or be included in that one? > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with > > peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places > > to hide like plants and caves? > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52837	From: Ray	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Nora, It's easy to get confused or mislead by the different information that's posted on the 'Net, even if you think you can put it all together and come up with your own opinion. This is definitely not the safe way to go when your fishes' lives depend on precise information. I did mention the Baensch Atlas Volume I as one good source for all the basic information you'd need. I believe it's out of print, but is quite often offered on both eBay and AquaBid. One other excellent book for basic information is one that has long been referred to as the "bible" of the Aquarium hobby, and one that had been published for 19 subsequent editions from 1935 until about 1959. It's a book that many earlier hobbyist haver cut their teeth on including myself, and one that I highly recommend in addition to the Baensch Atlas (Vol 1), even though this one does not contain an explanation of the nitrogen cycle. This was written by Dr William T. Innes, noted as being the "father of the aquarium hobby" and is titled "Exotic Aquarium Fishes." It too can often be found on eBay and AquBid; you're best served with buying one of the editions having the dark green leatherette cover (Original Innes Publishing editions). I'm glad that Byron brought up the subject of the screw-in CFL's (Compact Fluorescents) for your light fixture. I had just thought that the'd be too large in diameter to be able to fit one of these aquarium relectors, even though I have a few in some of my table lamps. In measuring them though, I see they're only 1 5/8" in diameter. If you can find another one, you should buy it for the other socket, and alternate their use every few days. Fluorescent lights for aquarium use should really be referred to by Lumens instead of Watts as they produce so much more light. The 18 Watt Compact Fluorescent bulbs I use in my table lamps are rated to produce as much light as a regular 60 Watt bulb. BTW, as for regular incandescent bulbs, I'll remind everyone here that they are being discontinued from being produced as of this month, so stock up on what you can get now if you prefer them for certain applications. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Thanks again for the additional infos. > Because of the web: Yes, I noticed that different websites sometimes provided different informations... I started to read up a topic on many different sites to get an idea about the variety of opinion. As soon as I can get to it I will also check the library for some more material. Is there a (or more) book you could recommend especially? > > Because of the plants: > Thanks for the suggestions! I have a pre-made black plastic lid on top that came with the aquarium and fits around the filter (I also have some smaller fish). So I bought a day light 6500K lamp (they had only one left at the store) and it is amazing how much more light it gives...I will use it above the plant and will see how the anacharis will like it or if I need a second one. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi again Nora, > > > > Before going very much further, I've noticed that you've repeatedly written about getting info off the internet. Just wanted to warn you that not all websites are equal. There are numerous websites on the 'Net, some even being copycats of others, which appear as being very authoritative and knowledgeable -- but actually contain much erroneous and misleading information, as anyone can put up a website or post on the 'Net without having to know anything. Yes, there are those who would make you believe they know everything there is to know about tropical fish, but would be lucky to know the difference between a goldfish and a guppy. > > > > Without knowing beforehand whether the knowledge you get off of the internet is correct, there is no way of knowing how accurate any of these internet sources are; and of course, you wouldn't know the difference or you wouldn't be looking for the info in the first place if you did. Unless otherwise knowing yourself, the internet is not the place to get information from when it comes to tropical fishes. You would do best by investing in at least one good book on aquarium basics, such as a Baensch Atlas Volume I, which can still be found on eBay and AquaBid quite often. > > > > Now, getting to lighting for growing live plants, I notice that you don't "want to shine too much light into the aquarium." If your only reason for this is that the lights through off a lot of heat, I might guess (especially as you have two, which can be turned on and off independently), that you have incandescent bulbs. Restricting the amount of light though, will not grow plants as they need about 6 to 8 hours of light to do well. As incandescent aquarium bulbs are offered in 25 Watt and 40 Watt capacities, and as you need about 3 Watts per gallon when it comes to this type of lighting, you'd do best with two 25 Watt bulbs, keeping them both lit for about 6 hours a day for starters until you see how the plants flourish. > > > > If you feel the water is being heated by them too much, you can always raise them up a bit to allow for some ventilatilation, provided you have an acrylic cover on top of the tank to prevent any fish from jumping out. Provided the fish are all larger, like your Mollies, there's a plastic "egg-crate" material used for flourescent ceiling lights (and found in Home Depot) that can be used when cut to size, which will allow for further ventilation of the water surface, but smaller fish may jump through it and out; it's made of 5/8" squares. > > > > Some hobbyists who haven't been in the hobby all that long prefer fluorescent lighting as they don't have any success with incandescent lights (and fluorescents are cooler), but early on in the hobby we didn't have the luxury of fluorescent lighting -- yet I used to grow very prosperous and full Amazon Sword Plants, Sagittaria, Anacharis, Valisneria and many other aquatic plants under incandescent lights, even had them blooming. There's nothing at all wrong with growing the more basic selections of aquatic plants with incandescent lights, except for the heat issue which can be worked around. We've all done it in earlier years, very successfully. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > > 1 platy (red/black) > > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52838	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...

Hi all, this time it is another question..... :) I bought the liquid API water test kit and tested the water again. The results puzzled me a little. I thought my tap water had a high PH but apparently it is just 7. The aquarium water on the other hand measured almost 8. So I try to find out what brings the values up? I did not change the water recently as much as before (I had thought before with lots of PWCs the ph in the aquarium was more like 7.8, but that was measured with strips) but in any case it is much higher than the tap water. I tried a little test: - measuring the plain tap water - measuring with additional Prime - measuring with addition salt on top of the Prime Prime and salt seemed to add a little alkalinity but not more than until 7.2- 7.3 in the end. One other possible source: we put some big rocks from the beach (we boiled them in water before adding to the aquarium) in the aquarium. So in the test water from above (tap + Prime + salt) I added similar rocks from the beach today and I will test the water after 1-2 days and see if the PH will rise due to them. Other than that? Are there any other known sources that bring the PH up. Too many fish? The Anacharis plant we have in the aquarium? Thanks for ideas.... Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52839	From: Ray	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...

Hi Nora, I had intended on asking you, in my last message, about your test results you received when using your new API liquid master test kit as it was recommended to you to get some Vallisneria. Val does exceptionally well in hard alkaline water of a high pH. With your tank water having a pH of 8.0, this plant should just fine. Getting to a possible source of something promoting a higher pH in your tank, a first question would be where you bought your gravel (and what kind of gravel are you using?). If bought at Home Depot for use as a garden path, it could be limestone. Those seashore rocks could be the source, but then too, so still it could be the water itself. Have you allowed your tap water to stand for 24 hours before testing it? As tap water can contain CO2, until this is off-gassed it can give your water a lower pH reading than it ordinarily would have without the heavy amount of dissolved CO2 in this water when first drawn, as this CO2 produces temporary carbonic acid. Yep, all the more science in this aquarium hobby that's needed to be known. Too many fish or the presence of the Anacharis plants will not raise the pH. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > this time it is another question..... :) > > I bought the liquid API water test kit and tested the water again. The results puzzled me a little. I thought my tap water had a high PH but apparently it is just 7. The aquarium water on the other hand measured almost 8. > So I try to find out what brings the values up? > I did not change the water recently as much as before (I had thought before with lots of PWCs the ph in the aquarium was more like 7.8, but that was measured with strips) but in any case it is much higher than the tap water. > > I tried a little test: > - measuring the plain tap water > - measuring with additional Prime > - measuring with addition salt on top of the Prime > > Prime and salt seemed to add a little alkalinity but not more than until 7.2- 7.3 in the end. > > One other possible source: we put some big rocks from the beach (we boiled them in water before adding to the aquarium) in the aquarium. So in the test water from above (tap + Prime + salt) I added similar rocks from the beach today and I will test the water after 1-2 days and see if the PH will rise due to them. > > Other than that? > Are there any other known sources that bring the PH up. Too many fish? > The Anacharis plant we have in the aquarium? > > Thanks for ideas.... > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52840	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Fotos of rocks and Aquarium

Hi again, when approved there will be an Album (Nora's Aquarium) in the Photo Section of this Forum that shows the aquarium and the rocks I used... Maybe somebody knows this type of rocks? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52841	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/8/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...

Hi Ray, thanks for the info! I forgot to let the tap water stand... So I will add a second container and will test the water with the rocks and the plain water tomorrow again. I bought the gravel at a tropical fish store intended for aquarium use. Other than that I added plastic aquarium plants and an artificial tree stump (also for aquarium), and a green glass container that I boiled before including. Can the glass be a problem? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I had intended on asking you, in my last message, about your test results you received when using your new API liquid master test kit as it was recommended to you to get some Vallisneria. Val does exceptionally well in hard alkaline water of a high pH. With your tank water having a pH of 8.0, this plant should just fine. > > Getting to a possible source of something promoting a higher pH in your tank, a first question would be where you bought your gravel (and what kind of gravel are you using?). If bought at Home Depot for use as a garden path, it could be limestone. Those seashore rocks could be the source, but then too, so still it could be the water itself. Have you allowed your tap water to stand for 24 hours before testing it? As tap water can contain CO2, until this is off-gassed it can give your water a lower pH reading than it ordinarily would have without the heavy amount of dissolved CO2 in this water when first drawn, as this CO2 produces temporary carbonic acid. Yep, all the more science in this aquarium hobby that's needed to be known. > > Too many fish or the presence of the Anacharis plants will not raise the pH. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > this time it is another question..... :) > > > > I bought the liquid API water test kit and tested the water again. The results puzzled me a little. I thought my tap water had a high PH but apparently it is just 7. The aquarium water on the other hand measured almost 8. > > So I try to find out what brings the values up? > > I did not change the water recently as much as before (I had thought before with lots of PWCs the ph in the aquarium was more like 7.8, but that was measured with strips) but in any case it is much higher than the tap water. > > > > I tried a little test: > > - measuring the plain tap water > > - measuring with additional Prime > > - measuring with addition salt on top of the Prime > > > > Prime and salt seemed to add a little alkalinity but not more than until 7.2- 7.3 in the end. > > > > One other possible source: we put some big rocks from the beach (we boiled them in water before adding to the aquarium) in the aquarium. So in the test water from above (tap + Prime + salt) I added similar rocks from the beach today and I will test the water after 1-2 days and see if the PH will rise due to them. > > > > Other than that? > > Are there any other known sources that bring the PH up. Too many fish? > > The Anacharis plant we have in the aquarium? > > > > Thanks for ideas.... > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52842	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Yes, it looks like it's broken, somehow. Amber On 1/8/2012 10:43 AM, Curtis Taylor wrote: > > Amber: > > Is plantgeek.net down? Page comes up saying "Account Has Been Suspended". > Attempted to access the site from different computers, even > smartphones and > we are met with same page. > > CRT > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52843	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Ray! Can you tell me where to find verification that the incandescent bulbs are being discontinued this month? There are a great many companies still producing and selling the fixtures for small tanks that use incandescent bulbs. It doesn't make much sense that the manufacturers would continue to put out a product that has no replacement bulbs available, especially with the shorter lifespan of these types of bulbs... they know that the bulbs would need replacing regularly. I did some searching online for information about this and all I could find was that 100 watt incandescent bulbs are being discontinued, which wouldn't apply to those needed for aquarium light fixtures. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > It's easy to get confused or mislead by the different information that's posted on the 'Net, even if you think you can put it all together and come up with your own opinion. This is definitely not the safe way to go when your fishes' lives depend on precise information. I did mention the Baensch Atlas Volume I as one good source for all the basic information you'd need. I believe it's out of print, but is quite often offered on both eBay and AquaBid. One other excellent book for basic information is one that has long been referred to as the "bible" of the Aquarium hobby, and one that had been published for 19 subsequent editions from 1935 until about 1959. It's a book that many earlier hobbyist haver cut their teeth on including myself, and one that I highly recommend in addition to the Baensch Atlas (Vol 1), even though this one does not contain an explanation of the nitrogen cycle. This was written by Dr William T. Innes, noted as being the "father of the aquarium hobby" and is titled "Exotic Aquarium Fishes." It too can often be found on eBay and AquBid; you're best served with buying one of the editions having the dark green leatherette cover (Original Innes Publishing editions). > > I'm glad that Byron brought up the subject of the screw-in CFL's (Compact Fluorescents) for your light fixture. I had just thought that the'd be too large in diameter to be able to fit one of these aquarium relectors, even though I have a few in some of my table lamps. In measuring them though, I see they're only 1 5/8" in diameter. If you can find another one, you should buy it for the other socket, and alternate their use every few days. Fluorescent lights for aquarium use should really be referred to by Lumens instead of Watts as they produce so much more light. The 18 Watt Compact Fluorescent bulbs I use in my table lamps are rated to produce as much light as a regular 60 Watt bulb. BTW, as for regular incandescent bulbs, I'll remind everyone here that they are being discontinued from being produced as of this month, so stock up on what you can get now if you prefer them for certain applications. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > Thanks again for the additional infos. > > Because of the web: Yes, I noticed that different websites sometimes provided different informations... I started to read up a topic on many different sites to get an idea about the variety of opinion. As soon as I can get to it I will also check the library for some more material. Is there a (or more) book you could recommend especially? > > > > Because of the plants: > > Thanks for the suggestions! I have a pre-made black plastic lid on top that came with the aquarium and fits around the filter (I also have some smaller fish). So I bought a day light 6500K lamp (they had only one left at the store) and it is amazing how much more light it gives...I will use it above the plant and will see how the anacharis will like it or if I need a second one. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again Nora, > > > > > > Before going very much further, I've noticed that you've repeatedly written about getting info off the internet. Just wanted to warn you that not all websites are equal. There are numerous websites on the 'Net, some even being copycats of others, which appear as being very authoritative and knowledgeable -- but actually contain much erroneous and misleading information, as anyone can put up a website or post on the 'Net without having to know anything. Yes, there are those who would make you believe they know everything there is to know about tropical fish, but would be lucky to know the difference between a goldfish and a guppy. > > > > > > Without knowing beforehand whether the knowledge you get off of the internet is correct, there is no way of knowing how accurate any of these internet sources are; and of course, you wouldn't know the difference or you wouldn't be looking for the info in the first place if you did. Unless otherwise knowing yourself, the internet is not the place to get information from when it comes to tropical fishes. You would do best by investing in at least one good book on aquarium basics, such as a Baensch Atlas Volume I, which can still be found on eBay and AquaBid quite often. > > > > > > Now, getting to lighting for growing live plants, I notice that you don't "want to shine too much light into the aquarium." If your only reason for this is that the lights through off a lot of heat, I might guess (especially as you have two, which can be turned on and off independently), that you have incandescent bulbs. Restricting the amount of light though, will not grow plants as they need about 6 to 8 hours of light to do well. As incandescent aquarium bulbs are offered in 25 Watt and 40 Watt capacities, and as you need about 3 Watts per gallon when it comes to this type of lighting, you'd do best with two 25 Watt bulbs, keeping them both lit for about 6 hours a day for starters until you see how the plants flourish. > > > > > > If you feel the water is being heated by them too much, you can always raise them up a bit to allow for some ventilatilation, provided you have an acrylic cover on top of the tank to prevent any fish from jumping out. Provided the fish are all larger, like your Mollies, there's a plastic "egg-crate" material used for flourescent ceiling lights (and found in Home Depot) that can be used when cut to size, which will allow for further ventilation of the water surface, but smaller fish may jump through it and out; it's made of 5/8" squares. > > > > > > Some hobbyists who haven't been in the hobby all that long prefer fluorescent lighting as they don't have any success with incandescent lights (and fluorescents are cooler), but early on in the hobby we didn't have the luxury of fluorescent lighting -- yet I used to grow very prosperous and full Amazon Sword Plants, Sagittaria, Anacharis, Valisneria and many other aquatic plants under incandescent lights, even had them blooming. There's nothing at all wrong with growing the more basic selections of aquatic plants with incandescent lights, except for the heat issue which can be worked around. We've all done it in earlier years, very successfully. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > > > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > > > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > > > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > > > 1 platy (red/black) > > > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > > > > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52844	From: kbgwp	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fotos of rocks and Aquarium

Nora, Just a thought. The aquarium gravel wasn't for salt-water aquariums only was it? I think (could be wrong) that might cause the pH to rise. Maybe you could try testing the gravel and rocks with a little vinegar to see if they bubble. ...Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > when approved there will be an Album (Nora's Aquarium) in the Photo Section of this Forum that shows the aquarium and the rocks I used... > Maybe somebody knows this type of rocks? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52845	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

I just did some checking with a manufacturer about the incandescent light bulb situation and was told that the pet trade will be unaffected by this. Apparently Bush signed a bill into law that required the discontinuance of incandescent bulbs, but this applies to home use bulbs only, the pet trade use bulbs were exempt from this law. I was also told that Obama has since squashed this law because of the expense of CF and LED bulbs at this time. There should be no shortage of the bulbs needed for aquarium light fixtures anytime in the near future. If something like this were to happen it would wreak havoc on both the aquarium trade as well as the reptile trade... reptiles still make a lot of use of incandescent bulbs for their heat sources. Most of the reptile heat/basking lamps being used/made are incandescent. CF and LED would not put out enough heat for such a thing, so there is little chance the pet trade will have a problem finding incandescent lights for at least the next 5 - 10 yrs if not longer (until an alternative is found and produced at an affordable price). I hope this helps to avoid any panic over finding these light bulbs for aquarium use and I also hope it doesn't stop anyone from buying the smaller tanks (such as 2.5 and 5 gallon set ups for bettas) that the companies are still producing with incandescent fixtures. Dawn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52846	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: PH value higher in Aquarium than tap water ...

The gravel should be safe (not changing your pH at all, as well as the decorations you added and the glass container). The only thing likely to change the water (in your case) is those rocks, or possibly the addition of Co2 from your water company in the local water supply, and after your water out-gasses pH gradually increases to 8. Test your pH in your buckets first after 24 hours, then once again after another 24 hours passes, this will show how much your pH shifts over time. When your tank is over-stocked and the Nitrates get too high this will cause the pH to drop, not increase. If those rocks were limestone they will slowly release minerals into the water that can cause change the pH over time with water changes (typically this happens slowly). To find out if these rocks are limestone take one and pour some vinegar on it, if it bubbles then it's limestone. Obviously clean the rock if you're going to put it back in the fish tank ;) Amber On 1/8/2012 6:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > thanks for the info! I forgot to let the tap water stand... So I will > add a second container and will test the water with the rocks and the > plain water tomorrow again. > I bought the gravel at a tropical fish store intended for aquarium > use. Other than that I added plastic aquarium plants and an artificial > tree stump (also for aquarium), and a green glass container that I > boiled before including. Can the glass be a problem? > > Thanks, Nora > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52847	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

I replaced my incandescent bulbs in my 10 gallons with small CFL spiral bulbs, they put out more light (in the proper spectrum for plants), and use less electricity than the bulbs that come with the fixture. I think I got the lowest wattage CFL full spectrum bulbs that were in the store, I want to say they were 9 watts, but maybe less than that. Amber On 1/9/2012 12:01 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Hi Ray! Can you tell me where to find verification that the > incandescent bulbs are being discontinued this month? There are a > great many companies still producing and selling the fixtures for > small tanks that use incandescent bulbs. It doesn't make much sense > that the manufacturers would continue to put out a product that has no > replacement bulbs available, especially with the shorter lifespan of > these types of bulbs... they know that the bulbs would need replacing > regularly. > > I did some searching online for information about this and all I could > find was that 100 watt incandescent bulbs are being discontinued, > which wouldn't apply to those needed for aquarium light fixtures. Any > help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52848	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: PH value after one night .... amazing

Hi again, amazing: after letting the tap water stand overnight the PH value increased from almost 7 to 8! So it seems it is not the fault of the rocks after all ;) I just wonder: is that ok with the fish if I do a 50% or even 30% PWC? and the PH suddenly changes and creeps back overnight? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52849	From: Ray	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: PH value after one night .... amazing

Hi Nora, So, I see the cause of your pH rise was the CO2, as suspected. The change in pH at any one time should be no more than 0.2 for a stress free experience for the fish. Still, we often do more than that when adjusting their pH from a store's water to our aquariums -- but, over a period of from 30 minutes to up to an hour or more. While these dsifferences do stress our fish, the relativly gradual change over this time period (as opposed to a sudden change) lessens it enough so as not to cause pH shock. As for your PWC's, you'd do best if you made several 25% PWC's per week, IF you need to -- although I doubt you'd really need to. As you'd still be retaining 75% of the water at any one time, this couldn't change the pH significantly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > amazing: after letting the tap water stand overnight the PH value increased from almost 7 to 8! > So it seems it is not the fault of the rocks after all ;) > > I just wonder: is that ok with the fish if I do a 50% or even 30% PWC? > and the PH suddenly changes and creeps back overnight? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52850	From: Ray	Date: 1/9/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Dawn, I received it as one of those news flashes that I first get when opening my computer for the day. This was just before New Years, and its content was kind of general -- I don't recalling it specifying any certain size bulbs being affected by this. As I automatically get new announcements every day as part of the function of my internet provider, they don't stay up on my web page for more than a day, so I'd have no way of even getting back to them. Just before posting this though, I sort of noticed new messages on this group's Home Page by you and others, that 1) it only refers to 100 Watt bulbs and 2) that one of you gals (Amber?) mentioned it doesn't effect the pet trade. I'll have open these new messages in their entirety as soon as I post this to see them in more detail as I'm curious too. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray! Can you tell me where to find verification that the incandescent bulbs are being discontinued this month? There are a great many companies still producing and selling the fixtures for small tanks that use incandescent bulbs. It doesn't make much sense that the manufacturers would continue to put out a product that has no replacement bulbs available, especially with the shorter lifespan of these types of bulbs... they know that the bulbs would need replacing regularly. > > I did some searching online for information about this and all I could find was that 100 watt incandescent bulbs are being discontinued, which wouldn't apply to those needed for aquarium light fixtures. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > It's easy to get confused or mislead by the different information that's posted on the 'Net, even if you think you can put it all together and come up with your own opinion. This is definitely not the safe way to go when your fishes' lives depend on precise information. I did mention the Baensch Atlas Volume I as one good source for all the basic information you'd need. I believe it's out of print, but is quite often offered on both eBay and AquaBid. One other excellent book for basic information is one that has long been referred to as the "bible" of the Aquarium hobby, and one that had been published for 19 subsequent editions from 1935 until about 1959. It's a book that many earlier hobbyist haver cut their teeth on including myself, and one that I highly recommend in addition to the Baensch Atlas (Vol 1), even though this one does not contain an explanation of the nitrogen cycle. This was written by Dr William T. Innes, noted as being the "father of the aquarium hobby" and is titled "Exotic Aquarium Fishes." It too can often be found on eBay and AquBid; you're best served with buying one of the editions having the dark green leatherette cover (Original Innes Publishing editions). > > > > I'm glad that Byron brought up the subject of the screw-in CFL's (Compact Fluorescents) for your light fixture. I had just thought that the'd be too large in diameter to be able to fit one of these aquarium relectors, even though I have a few in some of my table lamps. In measuring them though, I see they're only 1 5/8" in diameter. If you can find another one, you should buy it for the other socket, and alternate their use every few days. Fluorescent lights for aquarium use should really be referred to by Lumens instead of Watts as they produce so much more light. The 18 Watt Compact Fluorescent bulbs I use in my table lamps are rated to produce as much light as a regular 60 Watt bulb. BTW, as for regular incandescent bulbs, I'll remind everyone here that they are being discontinued from being produced as of this month, so stock up on what you can get now if you prefer them for certain applications. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > Thanks again for the additional infos. > > > Because of the web: Yes, I noticed that different websites sometimes provided different informations... I started to read up a topic on many different sites to get an idea about the variety of opinion. As soon as I can get to it I will also check the library for some more material. Is there a (or more) book you could recommend especially? > > > > > > Because of the plants: > > > Thanks for the suggestions! I have a pre-made black plastic lid on top that came with the aquarium and fits around the filter (I also have some smaller fish). So I bought a day light 6500K lamp (they had only one left at the store) and it is amazing how much more light it gives...I will use it above the plant and will see how the anacharis will like it or if I need a second one. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again Nora, > > > > > > > > Before going very much further, I've noticed that you've repeatedly written about getting info off the internet. Just wanted to warn you that not all websites are equal. There are numerous websites on the 'Net, some even being copycats of others, which appear as being very authoritative and knowledgeable -- but actually contain much erroneous and misleading information, as anyone can put up a website or post on the 'Net without having to know anything. Yes, there are those who would make you believe they know everything there is to know about tropical fish, but would be lucky to know the difference between a goldfish and a guppy. > > > > > > > > Without knowing beforehand whether the knowledge you get off of the internet is correct, there is no way of knowing how accurate any of these internet sources are; and of course, you wouldn't know the difference or you wouldn't be looking for the info in the first place if you did. Unless otherwise knowing yourself, the internet is not the place to get information from when it comes to tropical fishes. You would do best by investing in at least one good book on aquarium basics, such as a Baensch Atlas Volume I, which can still be found on eBay and AquaBid quite often. > > > > > > > > Now, getting to lighting for growing live plants, I notice that you don't "want to shine too much light into the aquarium." If your only reason for this is that the lights through off a lot of heat, I might guess (especially as you have two, which can be turned on and off independently), that you have incandescent bulbs. Restricting the amount of light though, will not grow plants as they need about 6 to 8 hours of light to do well. As incandescent aquarium bulbs are offered in 25 Watt and 40 Watt capacities, and as you need about 3 Watts per gallon when it comes to this type of lighting, you'd do best with two 25 Watt bulbs, keeping them both lit for about 6 hours a day for starters until you see how the plants flourish. > > > > > > > > If you feel the water is being heated by them too much, you can always raise them up a bit to allow for some ventilatilation, provided you have an acrylic cover on top of the tank to prevent any fish from jumping out. Provided the fish are all larger, like your Mollies, there's a plastic "egg-crate" material used for flourescent ceiling lights (and found in Home Depot) that can be used when cut to size, which will allow for further ventilation of the water surface, but smaller fish may jump through it and out; it's made of 5/8" squares. > > > > > > > > Some hobbyists who haven't been in the hobby all that long prefer fluorescent lighting as they don't have any success with incandescent lights (and fluorescents are cooler), but early on in the hobby we didn't have the luxury of fluorescent lighting -- yet I used to grow very prosperous and full Amazon Sword Plants, Sagittaria, Anacharis, Valisneria and many other aquatic plants under incandescent lights, even had them blooming. There's nothing at all wrong with growing the more basic selections of aquatic plants with incandescent lights, except for the heat issue which can be worked around. We've all done it in earlier years, very successfully. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > our new tank (10G) seems to have just finished cycling (thanks to the help of this forum and the internet :) and I hope it continues to be stable. > > > > > So now we are starting to get a little more adventurous and are thinking about the final setup. > > > > > I would like to try having live plants instead of the plastic and we would like to add a few more fish. > > > > > This time I would like to plan ahead instead of being one step behind... > > > > > > > > > > Could you give me advice of the following? I will check and read up more in the internet too but I would be glad to get as many info as possible. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the fish in community tanks: > > > > > we just added a white molly (we had to exchange it in the beginning for a platy and were waiting to introduce one again into the tank) > > > > > Now we are open to add other species or types if possible. > > > > > > > > > > Right now we have the following fish: > > > > > 3 mollies (a white, an orange and a dalmatian molly) > > > > > 1 platy (red/black) > > > > > 3 golden white clouds > > > > > > > > > > - My son loves fish with beautiful tails/color and would love a betta. It does not seem a too good idea so we were wondering about guppies instead? But they seem to like slightly different water conditions (lower ph?) or are they flexible enough to be ok? > > > > > > > > > > - Also we wanted to add 3 more clouds to make a school... > > > > > are there other school fish that we could add to form a second school or be included in that one? > > > > > > > > > > - what is the limit? What happens if the tank is "crowded" with peaceful fish, can I cope with more water changes and lots of places to hide like plants and caves? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52851	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi again, I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL bulbs. > > Hope this is of some help. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52852	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Nora, One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years & have never seen any snails in my tank. John*<o)))< * On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > bulbs. > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > Byron. > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > time? > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > get? Does it matter? > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52853	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

My Petsmart has little cylindrical plastic packages of plants. There are over a dozen plant species to choose from. They claim to be "snail-free." If you catch them on sale, the small containers are $3 apiece. Rather than plant them directly into the substrate, I have potted them in plastic "on the rocks" party glasses with great success in my tanks. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL bulbs. > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > Byron. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a time? > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can get? Does it matter? > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52854	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi John, thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > > bulbs. > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > time? > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > get? Does it matter? > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52855	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: feeding vegetables....how?

Hi all, I would have some questions regarding feeding vegetables to the fish tank... I read several vegetables were recommended like peas, cucumber, spinach, zucchini, and broccoli (we have mollies, a platy, guppies...). How should I feed them to the fish: cooked or raw? Is it important if it is organic or not? Usually everyone says not to feed more than what they can eat immediately. How does that work with veggies? Does it matter if there are left overs in the tank? One time until now I fed peas and even though I took only a few there are still some remaining pieces in the tank after days. Do I need to get them out? They definitely liked them so I would like to continue to add other veggies too. How big can the pieces be? Are the fish capable of chewing something off or do they need to wait until it rots....? If it need to be cooked: is this to make it softer or more digestible for the fish? Thanks a lot, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52856	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/10/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?

Most veggies are more readily eaten if they're blanched in boiling water first (of course cool them down before you add them to the tank). When you feed pees just squish them so that the inside part pops out and feed the insides to the fish, the skin doesn't have as much nutritional value and the fish don't seem to like it as much either. I would feed small pieces that the fish can fit in their mouth without difficulty. If you have any food left over I would remove it within 12 hours (at most), it will start to rot and quickly foul up your water. Typically I feed my pleco's in the evening before lights out, then I remove any left-over food the next morning. Molly's, platy's and guppies will readily try to bite off chunks of anything that appears edible (very curious little fish), so if you feed larger chunks that are cooked and soft then they should be able to bite off chunks to eat. Pees are not as easy to bite off chunks off, which is why I suggested squishing them and feeding bite sized pieces. You can take a fork and mash it a little, that will make it easier for the fish to eat too. Organic is not important, just make sure to clean the veggies and blanch them. My guppies, swordtail's and platy's also like butternut squash (I put it in for the pleco's). Amber On 1/10/2012 5:55 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would have some questions regarding feeding vegetables to the fish > tank... > I read several vegetables were recommended like peas, cucumber, > spinach, zucchini, and broccoli (we have mollies, a platy, guppies...). > > How should I feed them to the fish: cooked or raw? Is it important if > it is organic or not? > > Usually everyone says not to feed more than what they can eat > immediately. How does that work with veggies? Does it matter if there > are left overs in the tank? > > One time until now I fed peas and even though I took only a few there > are still some remaining pieces in the tank after days. Do I need to > get them out? They definitely liked them so I would like to continue > to add other veggies too. > > How big can the pieces be? Are the fish capable of chewing something > off or do they need to wait until it rots....? > > If it need to be cooked: is this to make it softer or more digestible > for the fish? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52857	From: Ray	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by as many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the solution before being placed in the aquarium. While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With this bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots should not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket with the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before putting the plants in the aquarium. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in > > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with > > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to > > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is > > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years > > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > > time? > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > > get? Does it matter? > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52858	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?

Feed cucumber on a clip. No need to cook in that case. Definitely remove any leftovers rotten food just pollutes the tank. If the vege is hard cook or blanch it. Some veges like peas you can freeze and thaw. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] feeding vegetables....how? Hi all, I would have some questions regarding feeding vegetables to the fish tank... I read several vegetables were recommended like peas, cucumber, spinach, zucchini, and broccoli (we have mollies, a platy, guppies...). How should I feed them to the fish: cooked or raw? Is it important if it is organic or not? Usually everyone says not to feed more than what they can eat immediately. How does that work with veggies? Does it matter if there are left overs in the tank? One time until now I fed peas and even though I took only a few there are still some remaining pieces in the tank after days. Do I need to get them out? They definitely liked them so I would like to continue to add other veggies too. How big can the pieces be? Are the fish capable of chewing something off or do they need to wait until it rots....? If it need to be cooked: is this to make it softer or more digestible for the fish? Thanks a lot, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52859	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/11/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Hi Ray, Thanks for the tip about not immersing the roots-I didn't know that. John*<o)))< * On 11 January 2012 10:58, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid > plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit > less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by > as many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution > to completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to > remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with > less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any > rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while > submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to > address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a > bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the > solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, > especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt > (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With > this bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an > average aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set > up any plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The > plants are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for > most plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots > should not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water > (as outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other > solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium > permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability > to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these > methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods > are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, > Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum > sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket > with the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per > gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 > Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, > don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before > putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52860	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

So question. If you soak for 2 days, and don’t submerge the roots don’t they dry out? Trying to figure out the logistics of that. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:59 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by as many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the solution before being placed in the aquarium. While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With this bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots should not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket with the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before putting the plants in the aquarium. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in > > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with > > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to > > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is > > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years > > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > > time? > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > > get? Does it matter? > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52861	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

Where did you get 2 days? it's 3-5 minutes of soaking... not days. Amber On 1/12/2012 3:30 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > So question. If you soak for 2 days, and don't submerge the roots...don't > they dry out? Trying to figure out the logistics of that. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community > tank....general questions > > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid > plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit > less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied > by as > many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to > completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to > remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with > less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any > rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions > while > submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to > address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a > bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the > solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, > especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt > (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. > With this > bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average > aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any > plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants > are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most > plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots > should > not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as > outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other > solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium > permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's > ability > to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these > methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these > methods > are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, > Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum > sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the > supermarket with > the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per > gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 > Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, > don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water > before > putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > _,___ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52862	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

At the very end there is a 2-day option for alum. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions Where did you get 2 days? it's 3-5 minutes of soaking... not days. Amber On 1/12/2012 3:30 AM, Donna Ransome wrote: > > So question. If you soak for 2 days, and don't submerge the roots...don't > they dry out? Trying to figure out the logistics of that. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community > tank....general questions > > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid > plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit > less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied > by as > many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to > completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to > remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with > less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any > rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions > while > submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to > address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a > bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the > solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, > especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt > (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. > With this > bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average > aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any > plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants > are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most > plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots > should > not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as > outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other > solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium > permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's > ability > to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these > methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these > methods > are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, > Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum > sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the > supermarket with > the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per > gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 > Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, > don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water > before > putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > _,___ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52863	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/12/2012
Subject: plants

hi all. just got my first plant. followed your instructions about vinegar and water to a t....and it is in quarintine now... thanks john for the tips. my question is .. its a bacopa plant... it has a metal clip just above the roots holding the stems together... should i remove it before planting it or will it help... so keep it on? thanks all for your pickable gray matter. al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52864	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: plants

Remove the clip. Strip the leaves from at least 1/3 the bottom of the stem and plant up to the leaves. Plant in a group, but plant each stem separately. Bacopa, in my experience, pulls out of the substrate easily until roots form. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plants hi all. just got my first plant. followed your instructions about vinegar and water to a t....and it is in quarintine now... thanks john for the tips. my question is .. its a bacopa plant... it has a metal clip just above the roots holding the stems together... should i remove it before planting it or will it help... so keep it on? thanks all for your pickable gray matter. al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52865	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: plants

cool thanks donna. i'll warn them all to stay away from it... and if this works well i'll buy them more. :-)>>> > > hi all. > just got my first plant. followed your instructions about vinegar and water > to a t....and it is in quarintine now... thanks john for the tips. > my question is .. its a bacopa plant... it has a metal clip just above the > roots holding the stems together... should i remove it before planting it or > will it help... so keep it on? > thanks all for your pickable gray matter. > al. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52866	From: Ray	Date: 1/13/2012
Subject: Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community tank....general questions

GOOD QUESTION, Donna, You're to put the roots that are hanging over the edge of the bowl having the alum in it, in a separate bowl along side having just aquarium water. OR, you need to pour water over the roots every hour on the hour for 48 hours <g>. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > So question. If you soak for 2 days, and don't submerge the roots don't > they dry out? Trying to figure out the logistics of that. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:59 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: live plants for 10 G tank, community > tank....general questions > > > > > > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid > plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit > less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by as > many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to > completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to > remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with > less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any > rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while > submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to > address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a > bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the > solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, > especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt > (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With this > bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average > aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any > plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants > are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most > plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots should > not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as > outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other > solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium > permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability > to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these > methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods > are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, > Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum > sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket with > the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per > gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 > Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, > don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before > putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white > vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them > in > > > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted > with > > > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure > to > > > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > > > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method > is > > > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several > years > > > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > * > > > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water > Sprite > > > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get > some > > > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? > I > > > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial > for > > > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, > so > > > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants > at > > > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. > It is > > > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish > like > > > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian > Pennywort > > > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in > the > > > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being > one > > > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you > should > > > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted > tanks. > > > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a > 10g > > > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g > and > > > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal > from CFL > > > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one > at a > > > > time? > > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I > can > > > > get? Does it matter? > > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the > water > > > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52867	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?

Thanks for all the info! I got a much better idea how to handle it! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would have some questions regarding feeding vegetables to the fish tank... > I read several vegetables were recommended like peas, cucumber, spinach, zucchini, and broccoli (we have mollies, a platy, guppies...). > > How should I feed them to the fish: cooked or raw? Is it important if it is organic or not? > > Usually everyone says not to feed more than what they can eat immediately. How does that work with veggies? Does it matter if there are left overs in the tank? > > One time until now I fed peas and even though I took only a few there are still some remaining pieces in the tank after days. Do I need to get them out? They definitely liked them so I would like to continue to add other veggies too. > > How big can the pieces be? Are the fish capable of chewing something off or do they need to wait until it rots....? > > If it need to be cooked: is this to make it softer or more digestible for the fish? > > > Thanks a lot, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52868	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Live plants..... Sources for buying

Hi Ray and all, thanks for all the plant tips! I got Anacharis from Petco and I think I was lucky to stay snail free with only rinsing them in water... Originally I thought Anacharis did not like our tank because the leaves did not look healthy and I had to take out some stems but now the remaining ones start with new growth on many places. Additional we got one of the "snail-free" plants from Petsmart in the plastic cylinder (Wisteria) and now we have to see how it will grow. But the plant looked initially snail free and green so at the moment I could recommend the cylinders. Vallisneria seems to be more rare to get. My only source until now is a tropical fish shop and it looked not in good shape and was probably snail-infested. Can anyone recommend a good internet source for a variety of plants? If possible even snail-free? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by as many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With this bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots should not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket with the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in > > > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with > > > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to > > > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > > > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is > > > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years > > > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > * > > > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > > > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > > > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > > > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > > > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > > > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > > > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > > > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > > > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > > > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > > > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > > > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > > > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > > > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > > > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > > > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > > > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > > > time? > > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > > > get? Does it matter? > > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > > > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52869	From: pam andress	Date: 1/15/2012
Subject: Re: Live plants..... Sources for buying

Is there a safe way to get hair algae off of Anubis plants? Last time I tried with peroxide (I think) I killed all the leaves as I did not dilute it. :( I didn't know too. Pam > A good solution ratio of white vinegar to water for making a bath to rid plants of snails and snail eggs is 30% white vinegar to 70% water (a bit less than 1/3 cup vinegar to a bit more than 2/3 cup water, multiplied by as many times as you need to create enough of a quantity of this solution to completely cover the plant when immersed. The plant should be allowed to remain in this bath for up to 5 minutes, depending on its hardiness, with less hardy plant receiving about 3 minutes. As with all plant dips, any rooted plants should not have their roots immersed in these solutions while submerging them -- and, as with all plants being dipped in a solution to address snail or algae issues, these plants should be transferred to a bucket of same-temperature dechloraminated water to rinse them of the solution before being placed in the aquarium. > > While no snail-removing solution is completely safe for all plants, especially those less tolerant of these bath additives, a strong salt (Kosher Salt) dip is one of the safest even for less hardy plants. With this bath, one uses 1 cup of salt dissolved in 1 gallon of water (at an average aquarium temperarture of around 75 o -- 76 o, or so) -- always set up any plant bath at a similar temperature so as to not set them back. The plants are allowed to remain in this bath for between 15 and 20 seconds for most plants, and about 10 seconds for less hardy plants. Again, the roots should not be submerged, The plants should be rinsed in a bucket of water (as outlined above) before tranferring to the aquarium. > > There are other methods of eliminating snails from plants with other solutions, using 1) bleach, 2) hydrogen peroxide and 3) Potassium permanganate to varying degrees of success depending on the plant's ability to tolerate these solutions but not all plants do well with some of these methods. I won't go into them here unless ask for, as some of these methods are not very friendly towards less hardy plants such as Anacharis, Vallisneria, Cabomba and a few others. > > One quite safe method of ridding plants of snails is to use Alum (aluminum sulfate) that is used in canning -- and can be found in the supermarket with the canning supplies. A solution of 3 Tablespoons of Alum is used per gallon, for a 2 to 3 hour bath. For a more dilute solution, one can use 1 Tablespoon of Alum per gallon, for a period of 2 days. As with other dips, don't allow the roots to be submersed and rinse in a bucket of water before putting the plants in the aquarium. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > thanks for the tip. How diluted with water is the solution of white vinegar that you use usually and do you just dip the plant briefly into it? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > One way to get rid of unwanted hitch-hikers on plants is to rinse them in > > > a solution of white vinegar, the rinse in water which has been salted with > > > aquarium, rock or sea salt, then rinse in conditioned water. Make sure to > > > temperature-match the water as plants as well as fish can be adversely > > > affected by temperature changes. I don't know how successful this method is > > > for getting rid of snail eggs but I have done this method for several years > > > & have never seen any snails in my tank. > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > * > > > On 10 January 2012 21:26, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > I looked at pictures of Vallisneria, Branzilian Pennywort, Water Sprite > > > > and Cabomba in the internet: they look beautiful and I will try to get some > > > > of them. Is there a way to reduce the risk of getting snail infected? I > > > > read snails seem to love those plants. I know they are also beneficial for > > > > the aquarium but still I like to avoid them... > > > > (A sales person at Petco told me they have snails in all their tanks, so > > > > if I buy the plant there we at "high risk") > > > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm just commenting on your plant-related questions. Add the plants at > > > > once. Given the harder water that mollies need, Vallisneria works very > > > > well. The smallish Corkscrew Vallisneria will suit a 10g tank and by > > > > sending out runners with plantlets soon fill the tank if you let it. It is > > > > ideal in livebearer tanks. Some floating plants are always good, fish like > > > > a "cover" above them. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is one of my > > > > favourites. Some stem plants do well left floating, Brazilian Pennywort > > > > works very well this way. You could also try green Cabomba, planted in the > > > > substrate in a small clump in a rear corner. > > > > > > > > > > There are many advantages to live plants, stable water quality being one > > > > of them. The amount of ammonia (as ammonium) plants assimilate is > > > > remarkable, and since mollies are highly sensitive to any ammonia (and > > > > nitrite) this is a special bonus. > > > > > > > > > > On your light, with an incandescant fixture [screw-in bulbs] you should > > > > use Compact Flourescent Bulbs, the "spiral" ones, that you can buy at > > > > hardware-type stores. The "daylight" type are excellent for planted tanks. > > > > GE, Sylvania and Phillips make them, they have a rating of 6500K. On a 10g > > > > I would use two 10w bulbs. I have two GE Daylight 10w bulbs on my 10g and > > > > 20g tanks and the plant growth is remarkable. Heat is very minimal from CFL > > > > bulbs. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this is of some help. > > > > > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding the plants: > > > > > > - can I just add the plants immediately all together or only one at a > > > > time? > > > > > > - is there a danger for the water values? > > > > > > - which plants work best for mollies or do I have to take what I can > > > > get? Does it matter? > > > > > > - any disadvantages having live plants vs. plastic? > > > > > > - do they get enough nutrition from the fish alone usually? > > > > > > - I do not want to shine too much light into the aquarium and used > > > > only one of the two possible light bulb until now, they also heat the water > > > > up, so I am limited there. A problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for advice, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52870	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: feeding vegetables....how?

Hi Nora, You definitely need to remove all uneaten foodstuffs from the tank as soon as you notice that they are left over, a turkey baster is a good tool for this. This is especially important with smaller tanks as the amount of water can quickly become polluted. I'm not entirely sure veggies are good for tropical fish so perhaps someone can jump in here-I know you can use them as a mild laxative in Goldfish. John<o)))< --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would have some questions regarding feeding vegetables to the fish tank... > I read several vegetables were recommended like peas, cucumber, spinach, zucchini, and broccoli (we have mollies, a platy, guppies...). > > How should I feed them to the fish: cooked or raw? Is it important if it is organic or not? > > Usually everyone says not to feed more than what they can eat immediately. How does that work with veggies? Does it matter if there are left overs in the tank? > > One time until now I fed peas and even though I took only a few there are still some remaining pieces in the tank after days. Do I need to get them out? They definitely liked them so I would like to continue to add other veggies too. > > How big can the pieces be? Are the fish capable of chewing something off or do they need to wait until it rots....? > > If it need to be cooked: is this to make it softer or more digestible for the fish? > > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52871	From: Showpup	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! Janet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52872	From: kuradi8	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

My "dream" 55g would have black sand/gravel, a dark background, two http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3202491 and a bunch of Electric Yellow Lab Cichlids. For other ideas, check out: http://ratemyfishtank.com/tanks_by_size.php/i_55 ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Showpup" <ford@...> wrote: > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > Janet >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52873	From: Scott Holleman	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

I've got some of the milder cichlids, Malawi, I believe.  The store had them labels O B Cichlids.  They may be hybrids, but they seem to get along quite well. Scott ________________________________ From: Showpup <ford@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...   I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52874	From: Kyle	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > My "dream" 55g would have black sand/gravel, a dark background, two http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3202491 and a bunch of Electric Yellow Lab Cichlids. > > For other ideas, check out: > http://ratemyfishtank.com/tanks_by_size.php/i_55 > ~Kai > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Showpup" <ford@> wrote: > > > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. > > > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. > > > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. > > > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. > > > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > > > Janet > > > Hey well as far as fish go there are so many ways to go about it but it sounds like you wont a non aggressive community tank you also have to decide how many fish you wont you could get 1 or 2 large fish 6 to 8 medium size fish or have 20 to 30 small fish. As far as using that sand and rocks people say you can boil them and such but i would say go with a store bought sand and rocks made for fish tanks much safer choice i will look around and try and give you some advice on picking fish if you know size and temperament fish you wont to go with. p.s good luck with your tank =)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52875	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

Hi Janet, You test rocks by submersing them in vinegar-if they bubble then don't use them. One idea for cave sections is to use several broken terra-cotta plant pots stacked alternately one above the other in several rows, you can get an aquatic safe silicone [same as the seals on your tank edges] that will stick your construction together & keep it safe. Good luck with your license! John*<o)))< * On 16 January 2012 14:21, Showpup <ford@...> wrote: > ** > > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and > fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make > the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find > suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to > 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are > pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want > to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming > environment for them to observe. > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road > trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix > with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? > I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have > enough. > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were > safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of > varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of > building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat > it with for fish safety. > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a > lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of > fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > Janet > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52876	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

OB Malawi are pretty aggressive. They are either hybrid peacocks (Aulonocara) or mbuna like Metriaclima or Labeotropheus. Yellow labs are the least aggressive mbuna and they are colorful. Still aggressive though. If you really don't want aggression, maybe something other than cichlids. 3D backgrounds are nice, but I would not build in caves.too hard to catch a sick fish when necessary. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Holleman Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions... I've got some of the milder cichlids, Malawi, I believe. The store had them labels O B Cichlids. They may be hybrids, but they seem to get along quite well. Scott ________________________________ From: Showpup <ford@... <mailto:ford%40netonecom.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 8:21 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions... I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! Janet [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52877	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/16/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

You can take the styro-foam and paint it with spray paint, then make sure to carefully cover it in 2 part epoxy and let it FULLY dry before adding it to fish tank. The problem with styro-foam is that it's going to float, so unless you secure it with silicone to the aquarium or a rock, you're going to probably give up and throw it away later. I had a project where I was going to design my own rock background with nooks for plants, etc. Well it just never happened. I still have the spray paint, 2 part epoxy, and the styro-foam. Maybe one of these days I'll actually get around to it. It's time consuming and tedious work. I would suggest putting the sand in a bucket with tank water and let it sit for at least 2 days, then measure the pH and compare it to your tank pH. If there is no difference then the sand should be safe to use, just make sure to clean it very good. I'm not sure you can boil sand, but you can soak it in bleach-water (rinse very very well after), but I'm not sure what the ratio of bleach/water should be. I also love community tanks, I have several of them myself. If you want colorful and active fish that are non-aggressive you should be able to find more than a few that will get along together. I have Neon and Cardinal Tetras, they are very colorful but don't do much other than swim around looking for food. Danio's are very curious fish and will be very active all the time, so if you get shy fish then don't get Danio's as they can often disturb shy fish by all their constant activity. But I really love to watch my danio's play with each other, I have a school of 12 so they are very active. I just love Loaches myself, my favorite fishes, all of them! LOL. There are several varieties of Botia Loaches that are non-aggressive bottom feeders, they come in a variety of patterns/colors and they also eat snails, so if you're worried about having snails on your plants these guys will help keep the snails under control (within reason). Make sure you DO NOT get Clown Loaches, these guys get HUGE and need very big tanks, or you will have to trade them in for smaller ones periodically (if your fish store will allow this). I also like Coryadoras catfish, they are decent bottom feeder fish and can be quite active if you keep them in a school (at least 3 of each species, they do best when kept with at least 3 of each type of Cory's). Sometimes different species will school together, but only if they have similar colors/patterns, they seem to prefer their own sub-species over other types of Cory's. Another good bottom feeder are upside-down catfish. They swim upside down, just like the names suggests, and they stay rather small in size (they do get kind of fat when well fed, but they don't grow more than about 2 1/2-3 inches in length). I love watching these guys search for food and school together (I have 4 of them). If you want to witness the miracle of birth (and quite often at that) you could get some live-bearers. There are several species to choose from, and they all have live babies. BUT if you get Danio's they will actively hunt out the fry and eat them if there is not enough plant cover for the babies to hide in. I use Naja Grass (also called Guppy grass), and hornwort for the babies to hide in, works great. I have Guppies, Platties, and Swordtails. Platties and Swordtails have to be kept separate though, as they can interbreed and that's not a good thing with fish. People don't want to purchase mixed species fish. There are a few other types of live-bearers to pick from as well, but Mollies can get kind of big, so I don't usually recommend them for a community tank (they have big babies and can quickly over populate a tank if nothing is eating their babies). Another often over-looked fish is the female beta. If you get just one of them they are very docile (mostly, some females can be a little nippy, but they won't beat up other fish). They are VERY curious and explore their environment thoroughly, even the males will check out every nook and cranny. The males can often get picked on by other fish because of their long tails, so unless you get very docile fish that aren't surface breathers like betas are (such as gourami's) they will be very docile and happy in a community tank with just a single beta (male or female). And since I've mentioned Gourami's... Some gourami's stay very small (the dwarf varieties), but nearly all gourami's that I've had have all been fairly aggressive and territorial. The only ones that seem to be less aggressive are the pearl gourami's, but they look similar to other color varieties, so it's hard to tell if you're REALLY getting a pearl gourami, or another color type of gourami instead (one of the aggressive ones). It's just too bad though, because I just love the looks of gourami's, they can be so pretty, and yet so mean at the same time :( Hope all of this helps, the email ended up a bit longer than I had planned, sorry! Amber On 1/16/2012 5:21 AM, Showpup wrote: > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor > and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want > to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then > trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and > love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important > to me. > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We > are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I > don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want > peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a > road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I > can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight > sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is > required, I may not have enough. > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they > were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large > amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was > thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but > unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there > is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what > kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > Janet > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52878	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

Hi, Janet: Thought I would chime in with a few suggestions for a peaceful but active community group...I keep my 115G stocked with assorted Rainbows (Reds, Turquoise and Australian) and a small group of Roseline Sharks, along with some clown loaches and one (only 1) Angelfish (then it truly acts like an "angel" LOL) There is also a myriad of relatively smaller fish (cories, SAEs, gobies, b/n plecos etc) that hang out & help me as the cleanup crew. I know my tank is twice the size of yours, but you could consider some of these fish, especially if you look at the smaller varieties of rainbows, like celebes, threadfins an turquoise varieties. Don't know where you are located, but that should not stop your LFS from being able to order them for you. Any of the tetras (neons, bloodfins, rummynose) are usually a good bet for a schooling group in your tank, too. I have a 40G set up with neons in with my celebes rainbows & a breeding pair of albino longfin bristlenose plecos. If you wanted to go species specific, then I would suggest New World Cichlids like German Blue Rams, Bolivian Rams, some of the Apistos, etc, though you would be keeping less fish so each could have territory - I have a pair of Gold Rams in my 115 and they have staked out a small area with a cave. Angels are okay as long as they are the only one of their kind, as I mentioned earlier. I kept 4 together in a 100G and they all turned out to be females who paired off and laid eggs everywhere and fought a lot....trimmed down to 1 angel and she is a nice addition now - I learned that lesson! All my tanks are heavily planted, too, so you would have to keep that a consideration as well. Plastic plants can work if you choose wisely for a natural and peaceful look, though I like the look of live plants & mopani wood better though it is a bit more work. Good luck! Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > You can take the styro-foam and paint it with spray paint, then make > sure to carefully cover it in 2 part epoxy and let it FULLY dry before > adding it to fish tank. The problem with styro-foam is that it's going > to float, so unless you secure it with silicone to the aquarium or a > rock, you're going to probably give up and throw it away later. > I had a project where I was going to design my own rock background with > nooks for plants, etc. Well it just never happened. I still have the > spray paint, 2 part epoxy, and the styro-foam. Maybe one of these days > I'll actually get around to it. It's time consuming and tedious work. > I would suggest putting the sand in a bucket with tank water and let it > sit for at least 2 days, then measure the pH and compare it to your tank > pH. If there is no difference then the sand should be safe to use, just > make sure to clean it very good. I'm not sure you can boil sand, but you > can soak it in bleach-water (rinse very very well after), but I'm not > sure what the ratio of bleach/water should be. > I also love community tanks, I have several of them myself. > If you want colorful and active fish that are non-aggressive you should > be able to find more than a few that will get along together. > > I have Neon and Cardinal Tetras, they are very colorful but don't do > much other than swim around looking for food. > > Danio's are very curious fish and will be very active all the time, so > if you get shy fish then don't get Danio's as they can often disturb shy > fish by all their constant activity. But I really love to watch my > danio's play with each other, I have a school of 12 so they are very active. > > I just love Loaches myself, my favorite fishes, all of them! LOL. There > are several varieties of Botia Loaches that are non-aggressive bottom > feeders, they come in a variety of patterns/colors and they also eat > snails, so if you're worried about having snails on your plants these > guys will help keep the snails under control (within reason). Make sure > you DO NOT get Clown Loaches, these guys get HUGE and need very big > tanks, or you will have to trade them in for smaller ones periodically > (if your fish store will allow this). > > I also like Coryadoras catfish, they are decent bottom feeder fish and > can be quite active if you keep them in a school (at least 3 of each > species, they do best when kept with at least 3 of each type of Cory's). > Sometimes different species will school together, but only if they have > similar colors/patterns, they seem to prefer their own sub-species over > other types of Cory's. > > Another good bottom feeder are upside-down catfish. They swim upside > down, just like the names suggests, and they stay rather small in size > (they do get kind of fat when well fed, but they don't grow more than > about 2 1/2-3 inches in length). I love watching these guys search for > food and school together (I have 4 of them). > > If you want to witness the miracle of birth (and quite often at that) > you could get some live-bearers. There are several species to choose > from, and they all have live babies. BUT if you get Danio's they will > actively hunt out the fry and eat them if there is not enough plant > cover for the babies to hide in. I use Naja Grass (also called Guppy > grass), and hornwort for the babies to hide in, works great. I have > Guppies, Platties, and Swordtails. Platties and Swordtails have to be > kept separate though, as they can interbreed and that's not a good thing > with fish. People don't want to purchase mixed species fish. There are a > few other types of live-bearers to pick from as well, but Mollies can > get kind of big, so I don't usually recommend them for a community tank > (they have big babies and can quickly over populate a tank if nothing is > eating their babies). > > Another often over-looked fish is the female beta. If you get just one > of them they are very docile (mostly, some females can be a little > nippy, but they won't beat up other fish). They are VERY curious and > explore their environment thoroughly, even the males will check out > every nook and cranny. The males can often get picked on by other fish > because of their long tails, so unless you get very docile fish that > aren't surface breathers like betas are (such as gourami's) they will be > very docile and happy in a community tank with just a single beta (male > or female). > > And since I've mentioned Gourami's... Some gourami's stay very small > (the dwarf varieties), but nearly all gourami's that I've had have all > been fairly aggressive and territorial. The only ones that seem to be > less aggressive are the pearl gourami's, but they look similar to other > color varieties, so it's hard to tell if you're REALLY getting a pearl > gourami, or another color type of gourami instead (one of the aggressive > ones). It's just too bad though, because I just love the looks of > gourami's, they can be so pretty, and yet so mean at the same time :( > > Hope all of this helps, the email ended up a bit longer than I had > planned, sorry! > > Amber > > > On 1/16/2012 5:21 AM, Showpup wrote: > > > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor > > and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want > > to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then > > trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and > > love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important > > to me. > > > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We > > are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I > > don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want > > peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. > > > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a > > road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I > > can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight > > sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is > > required, I may not have enough. > > > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they > > were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large > > amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was > > thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but > > unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. > > > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there > > is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what > > kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > > > Janet > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52879	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

First off, I have to disagree about the use of sand collected on any beach. pH and how it affects water chemistry would be the least of the potential problems. Sand, gravel, rock, wood, etc. collected from a natural habitat is a dangerous thing to put into any aquarium. The primary problem is pollution, and no, bleach will not remove many types of pollution that are toxic to aquarium fish and are unseen by the naked eye. Aquarium fish do not have the same immunities as wild fish, which makes the situation even worse. I would not use anything picked up outside for an aquarium, its just not safe. As for fish, if you want colorful, not overly large and not overly aggressive, why not look into the various species of barbs? You can get a beautiful color mix, high activity level, and fish that reside peacefully together if you stick to just barbs with similar temperaments. Tiger barbs, green barbs, albino tiger barbs, rosy and neon rosy barbs, odessa barbs, black ruby barbs... all can be mixed together, all get some brilliant coloration (especially males when females are present) and all can live quite happily together without problem. The barbs to avoid with this kind of mixture would be cherry barbs and gold barbs... and you'd want to stay away from tinfoil barbs due to their massive size as adults. The barbs I listed do well in planted tanks, so if that interests you, there would be no worry about the fish harming/eating the plants. The species I listed average about 2 - 3 inches each at full grown, so big enough to see and enjoy but not huge. In a 55 gallon tank you could easily add 3 - 4 groups of 3 (2 males/1 female for optimum color) and have a full tank without overcrowding them. There would be no breeding issues to worry about, as these are egg laying/scattering fishes and the fish would quickly eat any eggs they might find in the tank and you would never know it. In regards to the styrofoam... also not a real good option for creating any kind of 3D background because, as Amber pointed out, styrofoam floats, even if sealed with something fish safe. Also a warning about 3D backgrounds... they can be quite difficult to impossible to keep clean long term. Remember that any tank can and will grow some form and some degree of algae, and in the situation of caves that are permanently anchored into a tank, it can be impossible to get a gravel vac in there to pull out organic debris that will collect and pollute the water if left alone long term. Rocks can be stacked to form caves, and as John mentioned, terra cotta pots cut in 1/2 can make for great cave structures, as can coconut shells cut in 1/2... all easily moved to allow cleaning inside/under them. Aquarium safe drift wood can also make for beautiful decor in an aquarium, just be sure to know what kind of wood it is and be prepared to soak it for a good length of time to bleed out any tannins that may be there so they don't alter your water chemistry uncontrollably. Welaby wood and malaysian drift wood tend to be the 2 worst for tannins. The deeper red the color and the heavier/denser the wood the more likely it will have a heavy amount of tannins. Lastly, regarding 3D backgrounds... be careful with the type of materials used for this. Even some that are listed as "aquarium safe" can cause problems with cyano bacteria growth which will affect the overall health of the tank. It is safer and easier to get a background that attaches to the back of the tank (on the outside) and then add decor to enhance the appearance, which can also give a 3D effect without the potential for problems. I have found fabrics at various fabric stores and even Walmart that work nicely as backgrounds for the tank, give a 3D appearance, and are easily changed, cleaned (throw them in the wash and rehang them) and near impossible to damage with dripping water. They last almost forever if taken care of. I hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Showpup" <ford@...> wrote: > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming environment for them to observe. > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have enough. > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat it with for fish safety. > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > Janet >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52880	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

Hi All, Specifically regarding decorative structures within the tank. I would have a real worry about using anything like that inside my tank no matter how inert & fish-safe it is claimed to be. Apart from the difficulty of keeping it clean as Dawn mentioned, there is always the possibility it will crack & release toxic substances into the water water. I also know it is a relatively common practice to paint the inside bottom or back panel of new tanks before setting them up & then again this is something I would not even consider being safe no matter what types of materials are used. A lady I know has a great & completely safe method of backdrop decoration for her tanks behind the back panel, she just uses pages from an old wallpaper catalogue. That way you can have garishly bright geometric pattens or pastel floral scenes, whatever you like & the beauty of this is that when you [or the fish] get bored with one scene you simply change it for another & you don't even have to get your hands wet! John*<o)))< * On 17 January 2012 21:35, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > wrote: > ** > > > First off, I have to disagree about the use of sand collected on any > beach. pH and how it affects water chemistry would be the least of the > potential problems. Sand, gravel, rock, wood, etc. collected from a natural > habitat is a dangerous thing to put into any aquarium. The primary problem > is pollution, and no, bleach will not remove many types of pollution that > are toxic to aquarium fish and are unseen by the naked eye. Aquarium fish > do not have the same immunities as wild fish, which makes the situation > even worse. I would not use anything picked up outside for an aquarium, its > just not safe. > > As for fish, if you want colorful, not overly large and not overly > aggressive, why not look into the various species of barbs? You can get a > beautiful color mix, high activity level, and fish that reside peacefully > together if you stick to just barbs with similar temperaments. Tiger barbs, > green barbs, albino tiger barbs, rosy and neon rosy barbs, odessa barbs, > black ruby barbs... all can be mixed together, all get some brilliant > coloration (especially males when females are present) and all can live > quite happily together without problem. The barbs to avoid with this kind > of mixture would be cherry barbs and gold barbs... and you'd want to stay > away from tinfoil barbs due to their massive size as adults. > > The barbs I listed do well in planted tanks, so if that interests you, > there would be no worry about the fish harming/eating the plants. The > species I listed average about 2 - 3 inches each at full grown, so big > enough to see and enjoy but not huge. In a 55 gallon tank you could easily > add 3 - 4 groups of 3 (2 males/1 female for optimum color) and have a full > tank without overcrowding them. There would be no breeding issues to worry > about, as these are egg laying/scattering fishes and the fish would quickly > eat any eggs they might find in the tank and you would never know it. > > In regards to the styrofoam... also not a real good option for creating > any kind of 3D background because, as Amber pointed out, styrofoam floats, > even if sealed with something fish safe. Also a warning about 3D > backgrounds... they can be quite difficult to impossible to keep clean long > term. Remember that any tank can and will grow some form and some degree of > algae, and in the situation of caves that are permanently anchored into a > tank, it can be impossible to get a gravel vac in there to pull out organic > debris that will collect and pollute the water if left alone long term. > Rocks can be stacked to form caves, and as John mentioned, terra cotta pots > cut in 1/2 can make for great cave structures, as can coconut shells cut in > 1/2... all easily moved to allow cleaning inside/under them. Aquarium safe > drift wood can also make for beautiful decor in an aquarium, just be sure > to know what kind of wood it is and be prepared to soak it for a good > length of time to bleed out any tannins that may be there so they don't > alter your water chemistry uncontrollably. Welaby wood and malaysian drift > wood tend to be the 2 worst for tannins. The deeper red the color and the > heavier/denser the wood the more likely it will have a heavy amount of > tannins. > > Lastly, regarding 3D backgrounds... be careful with the type of materials > used for this. Even some that are listed as "aquarium safe" can cause > problems with cyano bacteria growth which will affect the overall health of > the tank. It is safer and easier to get a background that attaches to the > back of the tank (on the outside) and then add decor to enhance the > appearance, which can also give a 3D effect without the potential for > problems. I have found fabrics at various fabric stores and even Walmart > that work nicely as backgrounds for the tank, give a 3D appearance, and are > easily changed, cleaned (throw them in the wash and rehang them) and near > impossible to damage with dripping water. They last almost forever if taken > care of. > > I hope this helps. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Showpup" <ford@...> wrote: > > > > I just re-set my 55 gallon tank. It's had water for a week plus decor > and fake plants. No fish. Still trying to plan my tank. I don't want to > make the same mistake of buying those that catch my eye and then trying to > find suitable tank mates as I went. ugh. > > > > I want color and personality. I spend hours looking at my tank and love > to 'get lost' in their world so a total environment is important to me. > > > > Was thinking cichlids but their aggressive nature is worrying me. We are > pursuing our foster care license and not to sound silly, but I don't want > to expose these kids to constant aggression. I want peaceful, calming > environment for them to observe. > > > > Also, I have some black sand I collected from Agate Beach when on a road > trip a few years ago hoping I could use it for a tank. Can I? I can mix > with gravel in one section, sand in another or, if straight sand, how deep? > I don't have a ton of it so if a few inches is required, I may not have > enough. > > > > And - I heard years ago there was a way to test rocks to see if they > were safe for a tank. How do I do that? If not rocks, I have a large amount > of varying thicknesses of styrofoam wall insulation sheets. Was thinking of > building a nice backdrop with cave sections from it but unsure what to coat > it with for fish safety. > > > > Sorry for so many questions. I really want to do this right and there is > a lot of work for me before I can get fish... but need to know what kind of > fish to plan for before doing any of it. UGH! > > > > Janet > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52881	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

I've used driftwood and rocks from my local beaches, after boiling them several times (and running them through the dishwasher without soap on the extra hot setting), I've put them in my tanks with no problems. I suppose the biggest thing to consider when using ANYTHING from the outdoors is whether the area could have possibly been contaminated, and whether you're willing to risk putting it in your tank. I'm on an island in SE Alaska, surrounded by many other islands. The chance of our beaches being contaminated is not very likely, and we've never had an oil spill anywhere near our islands. The closest oil spill was nearly 1000 miles away and that was about 20 years ago. In higher populated areas the chance of contamination is going to be more likely, especially on beaches with a lot of foot traffic. I'm not arguing with Dawn, there is a risk to your fish if you use anything from the outdoors. I'm just stating that I've done it safely and have yet to have any problems caused from it. Amber On 1/17/2012 12:35 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > First off, I have to disagree about the use of sand collected on any > beach. pH and how it affects water chemistry would be the least of the > potential problems. Sand, gravel, rock, wood, etc. collected from a > natural habitat is a dangerous thing to put into any aquarium. The > primary problem is pollution, and no, bleach will not remove many > types of pollution that are toxic to aquarium fish and are unseen by > the naked eye. Aquarium fish do not have the same immunities as wild > fish, which makes the situation even worse. I would not use anything > picked up outside for an aquarium, its just not safe. > > As for fish, if you want colorful, not overly large and not overly > aggressive, why not look into the various species of barbs? You can > get a beautiful color mix, high activity level, and fish that reside > peacefully together if you stick to just barbs with similar > temperaments. Tiger barbs, green barbs, albino tiger barbs, rosy and > neon rosy barbs, odessa barbs, black ruby barbs... all can be mixed > together, all get some brilliant coloration (especially males when > females are present) and all can live quite happily together without > problem. The barbs to avoid with this kind of mixture would be cherry > barbs and gold barbs... and you'd want to stay away from tinfoil barbs > due to their massive size as adults. > > The barbs I listed do well in planted tanks, so if that interests you, > there would be no worry about the fish harming/eating the plants. The > species I listed average about 2 - 3 inches each at full grown, so big > enough to see and enjoy but not huge. In a 55 gallon tank you could > easily add 3 - 4 groups of 3 (2 males/1 female for optimum color) and > have a full tank without overcrowding them. There would be no breeding > issues to worry about, as these are egg laying/scattering fishes and > the fish would quickly eat any eggs they might find in the tank and > you would never know it. > > In regards to the styrofoam... also not a real good option for > creating any kind of 3D background because, as Amber pointed out, > styrofoam floats, even if sealed with something fish safe. Also a > warning about 3D backgrounds... they can be quite difficult to > impossible to keep clean long term. Remember that any tank can and > will grow some form and some degree of algae, and in the situation of > caves that are permanently anchored into a tank, it can be impossible > to get a gravel vac in there to pull out organic debris that will > collect and pollute the water if left alone long term. Rocks can be > stacked to form caves, and as John mentioned, terra cotta pots cut in > 1/2 can make for great cave structures, as can coconut shells cut in > 1/2... all easily moved to allow cleaning inside/under them. Aquarium > safe drift wood can also make for beautiful decor in an aquarium, just > be sure to know what kind of wood it is and be prepared to soak it for > a good length of time to bleed out any tannins that may be there so > they don't alter your water chemistry uncontrollably. Welaby wood and > malaysian drift wood tend to be the 2 worst for tannins. The deeper > red the color and the heavier/denser the wood the more likely it will > have a heavy amount of tannins. > > Lastly, regarding 3D backgrounds... be careful with the type of > materials used for this. Even some that are listed as "aquarium safe" > can cause problems with cyano bacteria growth which will affect the > overall health of the tank. It is safer and easier to get a background > that attaches to the back of the tank (on the outside) and then add > decor to enhance the appearance, which can also give a 3D effect > without the potential for problems. I have found fabrics at various > fabric stores and even Walmart that work nicely as backgrounds for the > tank, give a 3D appearance, and are easily changed, cleaned (throw > them in the wash and rehang them) and near impossible to damage with > dripping water. They last almost forever if taken care of. > > I hope this helps. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52882	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

When people paint their tanks they are actually painting the outside of the glass. I've never seen someone paint the inside glass of their fish tank. I suppose there are people that have done it... but I've only seen people recommend painting the outside glass only, and to be careful about it (make sure you don't get any paint inside). Only 2 of my tanks actually have backgrounds on them, one came with it (used tank), and the other I bought a cheap plastic background from my local fish store. One of my tanks is in front of a window and the curtains are always closed, so the curtains are actually the background. Amber On 1/17/2012 2:35 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Hi All, > > Specifically regarding decorative structures within the tank. I would > have a real worry about using anything like that inside my tank no matter > how inert & fish-safe it is claimed to be. Apart from the difficulty of > keeping it clean as Dawn mentioned, there is always the possibility it > will > crack & release toxic substances into the water water. I also know it is a > relatively common practice to paint the inside bottom or back panel of new > tanks before setting them up & then again this is something I would not > even consider being safe no matter what types of materials are used. > > A lady I know has a great & completely safe method of backdrop decoration > for her tanks behind the back panel, she just uses pages from an old > wallpaper catalogue. That way you can have garishly bright geometric > pattens or pastel floral scenes, whatever you like & the beauty of this is > that when you [or the fish] get bored with one scene you simply change it > for another & you don't even have to get your hands wet! > > John*<o)))< > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52883	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2012
Subject: Re: Setting up a 55 Gallon... Questions...

Hi Amber, Sitting here in landlocked Leicester [UK Midlands] your location sounds very exotic indeed! John*<o)))< * On 18 January 2012 01:24, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > I've used driftwood and rocks from my local beaches, after boiling them > several times (and running them through the dishwasher without soap on > the extra hot setting), I've put them in my tanks with no problems. I > suppose the biggest thing to consider when using ANYTHING from the > outdoors is whether the area could have possibly been contaminated, and > whether you're willing to risk putting it in your tank. > I'm on an island in SE Alaska, surrounded by many other islands. The > chance of our beaches being contaminated is not very likely, and we've > never had an oil spill anywhere near our islands. The closest oil spill > was nearly 1000 miles away and that was about 20 years ago. In higher > populated areas the chance of contamination is going to be more likely, > especially on beaches with a lot of foot traffic. > I'm not arguing with Dawn, there is a risk to your fish if you use > anything from the outdoors. I'm just stating that I've done it safely > and have yet to have any problems caused from it. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52884	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: plants

R.I.P. bacopa plant. What a mess. I shall try again; some day; probbably with the addition of more light. :-)>>> > hi all. > just got my first plant. followed your instructions about vinegar and water to a t....and it is in quarintine now... thanks john for the tips. > my question is .. its a bacopa plant... it has a metal clip just above the roots holding the stems together... should i remove it before planting it or will it help... so keep it on? > thanks all for your pickable gray matter. > al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52885	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: question about nitrate spike

Hi, I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of <http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjA A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liveaquaria.com%2Fproduct%2Fprod_Display.cfm%3FpCatId %3D780&ei=rDoWT66xEqGniALL2dHyDw&usg=AFQjCNEi_TUSRuVkyvXZ4GeUg1I0wReKuQ> Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is considered safe for most fish My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to remove accumulated debris at that time. . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? ~Tamara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52888	From: Ray	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

Wayne, Startsmart will not remove or reduce Tamara's high nitrate level. This product you're recommending is meant for cycling a tank. As this tank's ammonia and nitrite levels are Zero, I see no problem with its cycle. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayne" <wayne@...> wrote: > > > Use Startsmart. > http://www.organicearthsolutionsllc.com/aquarium.html > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > > <http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjA > > A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liveaquaria.com%2Fproduct%2Fprod_Display.cfm%3FpCatId > > %3D780&ei=rDoWT66xEqGniALL2dHyDw&usg=AFQjCNEi_TUSRuVkyvXZ4GeUg1I0wReKuQ> > > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > > considered safe for most fish > > > > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > > > > > ~Tamara > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52889	From: Ray	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

Hi Tamara, With your having much more sensitive and demanding fish in your tank than a Scat, I can't tell you why it was this fish that died, especially as nitrate really doesn't become toxic to fish until it reaches a level twice that of what you had. At 160 ppm, it will be stressful though, for many fish, but I see all your other fish lived through this. Ideally, however, it is best to maintain your nitrate level at no more than 40 ppm or preferably less which I see you're aware of. As your filter media was stinky when you opened your filter, I can offer that you may have been generating noxious gases into your aquarium water even though the water smelled fresh to you. Hydrogen and methane are toxic to fish, and this may have caused the death of that fish -- although I still don't know why it was this fish out of all the rest. Oh, and "looking" clean does not mean a thing when you can't see the water's make-up without testing it. Unfortunately, there are no test kits in the hobby to detect these gases in the water, but your nose already told you of its presence. Since you're asking for suggestions, let me just say that your "MONTHLY" water changes would appear to be the essence of your problem. Where did you ever come up with this notion that you needn't change any water for a month? Proper aquarium maintenance requires that you make PWC's (partial water changes) weekly -- not monthly -- and, with your heavy bioload, your filter should be cleaned about every two weeks. Now, looking over you stock list and approximating the bioload it represents, you are grossly overstocked. This is one major cause for your high nitrate level, in addition to your too infrequent maintenance procedures. You'll need to bring some of those fish back to your fish store, and make more frequent (andpossibly larger) PWC's along with no less than twice a month filter cleaning. The gravel needs to be vacuumed much more frequntly too, like with every PWC, although you could do one half one week and the other half the following week. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > considered safe for most fish > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > ~Tamara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52890	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

For immediate gratification, change 50% of the water now and your nitrate will be 40ppm. Then do the same thing (another 50%) tomorrow and your nitrate will be 20ppm Then weekly water changes thereafter to keep between 10ppm and 20ppm. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about nitrate spike Hi Tamara, With your having much more sensitive and demanding fish in your tank than a Scat, I can't tell you why it was this fish that died, especially as nitrate really doesn't become toxic to fish until it reaches a level twice that of what you had. At 160 ppm, it will be stressful though, for many fish, but I see all your other fish lived through this. Ideally, however, it is best to maintain your nitrate level at no more than 40 ppm or preferably less which I see you're aware of. As your filter media was stinky when you opened your filter, I can offer that you may have been generating noxious gases into your aquarium water even though the water smelled fresh to you. Hydrogen and methane are toxic to fish, and this may have caused the death of that fish -- although I still don't know why it was this fish out of all the rest. Oh, and "looking" clean does not mean a thing when you can't see the water's make-up without testing it. Unfortunately, there are no test kits in the hobby to detect these gases in the water, but your nose already told you of its presence. Since you're asking for suggestions, let me just say that your "MONTHLY" water changes would appear to be the essence of your problem. Where did you ever come up with this notion that you needn't change any water for a month? Proper aquarium maintenance requires that you make PWC's (partial water changes) weekly -- not monthly -- and, with your heavy bioload, your filter should be cleaned about every two weeks. Now, looking over you stock list and approximating the bioload it represents, you are grossly overstocked. This is one major cause for your high nitrate level, in addition to your too infrequent maintenance procedures. You'll need to bring some of those fish back to your fish store, and make more frequent (andpossibly larger) PWC's along with no less than twice a month filter cleaning. The gravel needs to be vacuumed much more frequntly too, like with every PWC, although you could do one half one week and the other half the following week. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > considered safe for most fish > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > ~Tamara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52891	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 1/18/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

Hi all, Thanks for the comments/ suggestions. I have only been in this hobby since last May. It has been a steep learning curve and I have more to learn. As to why I only clean the tank monthly, this was the specific instructions I was given at our local fish store. I was told that more frequent cleanings would decimate my bacteria bed responsible for processing fish waste and would disrupt the nitrate cycle. I was told that vacuuming the entire tank, which I do monthly, would destroy this bacteria bed and caused the spike. I am not sure how true this is. I did not know prior to this that my filtration system could be taken apart and cleaned. It will be cleaned frequently in the future. I think I need to also alter how I feed my fish. It was apparent from the contents of the filter that a lot of food was being sucked into it and was dirtying it up in a big way. I have sold back my two Silver Dollars. With their exit, there may be a chance that my plants will actually stay rooted. How many fish should I have? With the exception of the gold severum, my fish are relatively small in mass. My gold severum is about half grown. I do have a question. How does one vacuum a tank with rooted plants in it? Today, the nitrate level has dropped to 40 ppm. I will take Donna's advice tomorrow and perform an additional water change to bring that level down lower still. Thanks again for the advice and suggestions! ~Tamara -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 5:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: question about nitrate spike For immediate gratification, change 50% of the water now and your nitrate will be 40ppm. Then do the same thing (another 50%) tomorrow and your nitrate will be 20ppm Then weekly water changes thereafter to keep between 10ppm and 20ppm. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about nitrate spike Hi Tamara, With your having much more sensitive and demanding fish in your tank than a Scat, I can't tell you why it was this fish that died, especially as nitrate really doesn't become toxic to fish until it reaches a level twice that of what you had. At 160 ppm, it will be stressful though, for many fish, but I see all your other fish lived through this. Ideally, however, it is best to maintain your nitrate level at no more than 40 ppm or preferably less which I see you're aware of. As your filter media was stinky when you opened your filter, I can offer that you may have been generating noxious gases into your aquarium water even though the water smelled fresh to you. Hydrogen and methane are toxic to fish, and this may have caused the death of that fish -- although I still don't know why it was this fish out of all the rest. Oh, and "looking" clean does not mean a thing when you can't see the water's make-up without testing it. Unfortunately, there are no test kits in the hobby to detect these gases in the water, but your nose already told you of its presence. Since you're asking for suggestions, let me just say that your "MONTHLY" water changes would appear to be the essence of your problem. Where did you ever come up with this notion that you needn't change any water for a month? Proper aquarium maintenance requires that you make PWC's (partial water changes) weekly -- not monthly -- and, with your heavy bioload, your filter should be cleaned about every two weeks. Now, looking over you stock list and approximating the bioload it represents, you are grossly overstocked. This is one major cause for your high nitrate level, in addition to your too infrequent maintenance procedures. You'll need to bring some of those fish back to your fish store, and make more frequent (andpossibly larger) PWC's along with no less than twice a month filter cleaning. The gravel needs to be vacuumed much more frequntly too, like with every PWC, although you could do one half one week and the other half the following week. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > considered safe for most fish > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > ~Tamara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52895	From: Ray	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

Apologies to all. Suspecting that this person's motives were self-promoting, as profiting from pushing his products from his retail outlet, a check of his membership profile proved that he is affiliated with a notorious spam generator on these groups -- JSmith -- and as such, has been removed. All of his messages have likewise been removed from the archives. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayne" <wayne@...> wrote: > > Quote "Since 1975 Azalea Aquariums has tested new products before we recommend them. Start smart really works better than the other brands to start an aquarium bacterial Nitrite cycle. We are excited about Start Smart Complete because it does all this and lowers Nitrate. In both fresh and salt water we have dropped the N03 levels from 300 to 80 or less in less than two months and it is still dropping. The algae problems have also dramatically cleared up." > Azalea Aquarium is Richmond's largest freshwater and saltwater aquarium retailer Established in 1975 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Wayne, > > > > Startsmart will not remove or reduce Tamara's high nitrate level. This product you're recommending is meant for cycling a tank. As this tank's ammonia and nitrite levels are Zero, I see no problem with its cycle. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayne" <wayne@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Use Startsmart. > > > http://www.organicearthsolutionsllc.com/aquarium.html > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > > > > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > > > > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > > > > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > > > > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > > > > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > > > > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > > > > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > > > > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > > > > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > > > > <http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjA > > > > A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liveaquaria.com%2Fproduct%2Fprod_Display.cfm%3FpCatId > > > > %3D780&ei=rDoWT66xEqGniALL2dHyDw&usg=AFQjCNEi_TUSRuVkyvXZ4GeUg1I0wReKuQ> > > > > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > > > > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > > > > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > > > > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > > > > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > > > > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > > > > considered safe for most fish > > > > > > > > > > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > > > > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > > > > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > > > > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > > > > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > > > > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > > > > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > > > > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > > > > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > > > > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > > > > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > > > > > > > > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Tamara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52896	From: bamberggreenman	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

I'm not thinking nitrate was your issue. Reason:The stink you noticed in your filter is Hydrogen Sulfide, and it is much more toxic than nitrate. Your filter may have become clogged or the impeller may have temporarily stopped working. Common causes can include:Impellers can be stopped quite handily by small snail shells, gravel, sand, plant fiber... or filter media can become clogged from detritus. Either of these scenarios can allow anaerobic digestion of waste, and your filter going septic. Using the common causes from above:When flow was returned through your filter (the impeller began spinning again or the detritus was anaerobically digested), the anaerobic waste product (H2S) was flushed into your tank. I don't know the lethal level of H2S for Scatophagus, but it can begin killing some sensitive aquarium fish in as little as 5ppb. Yes, 5parts-per-Billion. Water changes and a canister filter are in order. Most canister filters have their impellers after the filter media, which will greatly reduce the chances of fouling in the impeller housing. H2S Aquatic Toxicity <http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC39183#Ecotoxi\ city> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tamara Burnett" <tamara@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > I am dealing with a nitrate spike in my 75 gallon freshwater aquarium. Last > Sunday we came home from a day trip to a nasty surprise. Our Silver Scat was > lying dead at the bottom of the tank. I examined him and found no signs of > trauma or obvious signs of disease. So, even though this tank has been > stable and the water was fresh smelling and clear I thought I better run > some tests. Ammonia and Nitrites were zero however the Nitrate test at 160 > ppm! So even though it was approaching 1:00 a.m., I immediately did a 50% > water change. I also dosed the tank with Prime and threw in a nitrogen > absorbing pillow into the filter. The next morning the nitrates tested at 80 > ppm which is still dangerously high. So I bought 6 bunches of > <http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDE\ QFjA > A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.liveaquaria.com%2Fproduct%2Fprod_Display.cfm%3FpC\ atId > %3D780&ei=rDoWT66xEqGniALL2dHyDw&usg=AFQjCNEi_TUSRuVkyvXZ4GeUg1I0wReKuQ> > Anacharis and placed those into my tank. 1/2 a day later the tank still > tested at around 80 ppm for nitrates. So I then disassembled the flow over > filter at the back of my Truview tank and carefully cleaned all of the > filter media and replaced it. It was very stinky in there once I opened it > up. The tank now tests at about 50-60ppm from what I can tell from my ACI > test kit. I am trying to get the nitrate level below 40 ppm which is > considered safe for most fish > > > My tank is 75 gallons and I have Malaysian Bog Wood and quite a few plants- > most of which have been uprooted by my two silver dollars. I have the > following fish in addition to the silver dollars: medium sized gold severum, > butterfly fish, 10" long reed fish, small bristle nosed pleco, two larger > Parkinson rainbows, two irian rainbows, one congo tetra, three rosy tetras, > two neon tetras, two opalescent gouramis, one gold gourami, one moonlight > gourami, 1 medium sized angel fish, 1 headstander, some large snails and a > small unwanted population of smaller snails which I am hoping my reed fish > is taking care of. The tank looks clean and smells clean. A monthly water > change was conducted right after Christmas and the gravel was vacuumed to > remove accumulated debris at that time. > > > . I can't think of anything else to do. Does anyone have any suggestions? > > > > ~Tamara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52897	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

Excellent catch Ray ! -----Original Message----- From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 19, 2012 8:27 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: question about nitrate spike Apologies to all. Suspecting that this person's motives were self-promoting, as profiting from pushing his products from his retail outlet, a check of his membership profile proved that he is affiliated with a notorious spam generator on these groups -- JSmith -- and as such, has been removed. All of his messages have likewise been removed from the archives. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayne" <wayne@...> wrote: > > Quote "Since 1975 Azalea Aquariums has tested new products before we recommend them. Start smart really works better than the other brands to start an aquarium bacterial Nitrite cycle. We are excited about Start Smart Complete because it does all this and lowers Nitrate. In both fresh and salt water we have dropped the N03 levels from 300 to 80 or less in less than two months and it is still dropping. The algae problems have also dramatically cleared up." > Azalea Aquarium is Richmond's largest freshwater and saltwater aquarium retailer Established in 1975 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Wayne,

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52898	From: William M	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: Re: question about nitrate spike

I am thinking that the scat bing a brackish water fish might not have been able to adjust to the freshwater in the tank. Also what is the water temp and pH of the water? These might have been out side of the range for the scat. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "bamberggreenman" <bamberggreenman@...> wrote: > > I'm not thinking nitrate was your issue. > Reason:The stink you noticed in your filter is Hydrogen Sulfide, and it > is much more toxic than nitrate. Your filter may have become clogged or > the impeller may have temporarily stopped working. > Common causes can include:Impellers can be stopped quite handily by > small snail shells, gravel, sand, plant fiber... or filter media can > become clogged from detritus. Either of these scenarios can allow > anaerobic digestion of waste, and your filter going septic. > Using the common causes from above:When flow was returned through your > filter (the impeller began spinning again or the detritus was > anaerobically digested), the anaerobic waste product (H2S) was flushed > into your tank. > I don't know the lethal level of H2S for Scatophagus, but it can begin > killing some sensitive aquarium fish in as little as 5ppb. Yes, > 5parts-per-Billion. > Water changes and a canister filter are in order. Most canister filters > have their impellers after the filter media, which will greatly reduce > the chances of fouling in the impeller housing. > H2S Aquatic Toxicity > <http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC39183#Ecotoxi\ > city> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52899	From: Mike Kurliez	Date: 1/19/2012
Subject: We Humans are Amphibians.

We humans are Amphibians. http://wj-writingjockey.hubpages.com/hub/We-Humans-are%c2%a0 Read the above article... I am sure you will not be disappointed. You can always refer the facts in the above article to your friends while just trying to create a conversation. Its a good read. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52900	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Hi all, I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52901	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: water measurements still accurate with ich medication in tank?

Hi again, another question regarding ich treatment with Maracide: does the liquid water test kit still work accurately? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52902	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

You gotta be kidding. Take the charcoal/carbon out of the filtration system no matter how old when one treats with some pharmaceutical. Even old loaded Charcoal will take out new Organic compounds. The Bacteria you want to save are on the glass, gravel, ornaments and plants. The filter is trivial. `````` Experienced aquarists expect all new fish have parasite or something bad with them. 3 to 4 weeks alone and most problems exhibit themselves. That gives us a chance to treat them. malachite green is not as bad as Formalin on the Tetras but Ich will kill them all. Pick your choices. The Local Fish Stores ( LFS ) have common problems. Most of the time it is Ich. There are others that are more insidious, take longer to develop and are quicker to kill their hosts. All of us need to expect something is wrong with the LFS fish and be ready to treat full strength for the most common parasites and quarantine new fish from the major group or show tank. Charles H http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish >I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with >Maracide from Mardel. >In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older >than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally >to remove the carbon filter... >I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" >bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged >the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). >Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave >or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > >How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they >might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that >are better with live plants in the tank? > >Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for >up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it >routinely? >Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake >of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > >Thanks, >Nora -- I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52903	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/20/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Thanks for your reply! Because of the carbon filter: Since the product description specifically says the carbon filter can be left in place if it is older (more than 5 days) I wonder why the company thinks it might work for Maracide. Does anyone knows details regarding the differences of the different medications regarding the filter and has experience Maracide might work that way? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > You gotta be kidding. > > Take the charcoal/carbon out of the filtration system no matter how > old when one treats with some pharmaceutical. Even old loaded > Charcoal will take out new Organic compounds. The Bacteria you want > to save are on the glass, gravel, ornaments and plants. The filter is > trivial. > > `````` > Experienced aquarists expect all new fish have parasite or something > bad with them. 3 to 4 weeks alone and most problems exhibit > themselves. That gives us a chance to treat them. > > malachite green is not as bad as Formalin on the Tetras but Ich will > kill them all. Pick your choices. > The Local Fish Stores ( LFS ) have common problems. Most of the time > it is Ich. There are others that are more insidious, take longer to > develop and are quicker to kill their hosts. > > All of us need to expect something is wrong with the LFS fish and be > ready to treat full strength for the most common parasites and > quarantine new fish from the major group or show tank. > > Charles H > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish > > >I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with > >Maracide from Mardel. > >In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older > >than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally > >to remove the carbon filter... > >I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" > >bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged > >the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > >Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave > >or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > > >How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they > >might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that > >are better with live plants in the tank? > > > >Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for > >up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it > >routinely? > >Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake > >of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > > >Thanks, > >Nora > > -- > I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines > to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52904	From: sh017127	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: red severum look for larger tank.

Adult red severum looking for larger tank. I suspect he's male. if your intrested please contact me 07989194668.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52905	From: Ray	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Hi Nora, First of all, regardless of whether or not the carbon in your filter will absorb your medication -- which it will, just as Charles states -- or whether the medication's instructions say that you can leave the carbon in the filter (or even if you remove the carbon), the bottom line is that the main ingredient of Maracide is Malachite Green (as printed on the bottle). Malachite Green is lethal to your nitrifying bacteria, just as it's lethal to Ich protozoa. As it appears that at least part of your concern is that you want to preserve your nitrifying bacteria, know that whether or not you remove your carbon, the remainder of any nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium -- on your gravel, your glass, in your filter sans carbon or anywhere else in your aquarium will be wiped out by using Maracide. What little nitrifying bacteria you may have saved by removing it (if you can keep it alive, which is questionable) will not be enough to resume your cycle once you reinstall it; you'll no doubt need to go through a mini-cycle at best and may still need to recycle your tank from the beginning as there's no way to save the bacteria on your carbon without placing it in another aquarium's filter. Why would you want to subject your fishes to a harsh chemical medication though, when all's you need to do for treating Ich would be to give your aquarium the heat treatment for Ich? This does not require any harsh medications or chemicals of any sort, but merely a rise in temperature to at least 86 degrees with the addition of a token amount of salt at the rate of only 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. There are many fish will will not tolerate Malachite Green at the manufacturer-recommended doseage and will die as a result of using it. If you have any Cory catfish or Loaches (and yes, Neon Tetras), I'd advise you remove this Maracide immediately or at least make a 50% PWC to cut the doseage in half -- IF you still want to continue with it. Personally, If it were me. I'd remove it entirely and go with the chemical-free heat treatment for Ich. One of the first rules of aquarium maintenance is to not add ANY chemicals to the fishes' water, unless absolutely necessary. There are occassions when it is mnecessary, but this is not one of them. Yes, quarantining new fish for up to ONE MONTH, is or should be routinely done, to observe them during this time in efforts not to introduce diseases into your main aquarium and to be able to treat any new fish for diseases they may be carrying. The heat treatment requires keeping the temperature at 86 o, for a minimum of two days after seeing no more signs of Ich. This may take up to ten day, depending on how fast the Ich is erradicated, after which the temperatureis broufght back down slowly over two days. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. > In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... > I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? > > Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? > Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52906	From: phyllis	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: New to group, but not to fish keeping

Hello- Just wanted to intro myself. I am on several salt and Reef groups, but didn't have a place to talk/ hear about freshwater fish stuff. So, here I am. I have been in fish-keeping for about 45 years and Reefing for around 40 and am still learning new stuff all of the time. I will never know it all, but will have fun trying to. I will set up Pics when I get my digital camera and learn how to use it. I am a way low tech person. I have cut way back on tanks since my health is failing somewhat and now only maintain 8- well, 10 if you count the 2 quarantine tanks. I am a nut for plants in both Fresh and Salt tanks. Useful and beautiful- what's not to like? 92- Salt Fish Only 75 Reef 56 Goldfish 55 Reef 54 Planted Fresh community 45 Livebearer fresh- also planted 15 Brackish Puffer 14 Salt Growout & remote refugium 10- Salt quarantine 5 -Fresh quarantine Lookin' forward to getting to know y'all. Chris

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52907	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping

Nice tanks I always liked salt water fish but don't have big enough tanks. 2 cichlids 3 rosy fin tetras 1 betta --- On Sat, 1/21/12, phyllis <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] New to group, but not to fish keeping To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 4:14 PM   Hello- Just wanted to intro myself. I am on several salt and Reef groups, but didn't have a place to talk/ hear about freshwater fish stuff. So, here I am. I have been in fish-keeping for about 45 years and Reefing for around 40 and am still learning new stuff all of the time. I will never know it all, but will have fun trying to. I will set up Pics when I get my digital camera and learn how to use it. I am a way low tech person. I have cut way back on tanks since my health is failing somewhat and now only maintain 8- well, 10 if you count the 2 quarantine tanks. I am a nut for plants in both Fresh and Salt tanks. Useful and beautiful- what's not to like? 92- Salt Fish Only 75 Reef 56 Goldfish 55 Reef 54 Planted Fresh community 45 Livebearer fresh- also planted 15 Brackish Puffer 14 Salt Growout & remote refugium 10- Salt quarantine 5 -Fresh quarantine Lookin' forward to getting to know y'all. Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52908	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52909	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping

Welcome to the group Chris. We can always use more people around for salt water tank advice, since most of us have freshwater tanks. If you've cut way back I'd hate to think how many tanks you used to have, LOL. I have 7 freshwater tanks ranging from 10 gallons up to 125 gallon tank. All of my tanks are planted freshwater tanks (low tech, most of them are Walstad planted tanks). Amber On 1/21/2012 12:14 PM, phyllis wrote: > > Hello- > > Just wanted to intro myself. I am on several salt and Reef groups, but > didn't have a place to talk/ hear about freshwater fish stuff. So, > here I am. I have been in fish-keeping for about 45 years and Reefing > for around 40 and am still learning new stuff all of the time. I will > never know it all, but will have fun trying to. I will set up Pics > when I get my digital camera and learn how to use it. I am a way low > tech person. > I have cut way back on tanks since my health is failing somewhat and > now only maintain 8- well, 10 if you count the 2 quarantine tanks. I > am a nut for plants in both Fresh and Salt tanks. Useful and > beautiful- what's not to like? > > 92- Salt Fish Only > 75 Reef > 56 Goldfish > 55 Reef > 54 Planted Fresh community > 45 Livebearer fresh- also planted > 15 Brackish Puffer > 14 Salt Growout & remote refugium > 10- Salt quarantine > 5 -Fresh quarantine > > Lookin' forward to getting to know y'all. > Chris > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52910	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Are you removing the cichlids? If you are keeping them, what kind are they? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emma Caccia Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank hi everybody i need ideas for what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52911	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Hi Emma, How many gallons does your tank hold? What are the dimensions of your tank? What kind of filtration do you have at the moment? Can you tell us what kind of cichlids you have? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 6:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52912	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/21/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Hi Emma, When I replied I did not notice the topic where you clearly stated 10 gallon tank. So we probably need to know what kind of cichlids you have to figure out their maximum size and gauge their needs. Cichlids can be as small as an inch and almost up to three feet. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Hi Emma, How many gallons does your tank hold? What are the dimensions of your tank? What kind of filtration do you have at the moment? Can you tell us what kind of cichlids you have? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 6:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52913	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: New to group, but not to fish keeping

Hi and welcome to the group. I always enjoy when another reef keeper shows up. :-) I look forward to seeing your photos and who knows, maybe even the ability to trade frags at some point too. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "phyllis" <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > > Hello- > > Just wanted to intro myself. I am on several salt and Reef groups, but didn't have a place to talk/ hear about freshwater fish stuff. So, here I am. I have been in fish-keeping for about 45 years and Reefing for around 40 and am still learning new stuff all of the time. I will never know it all, but will have fun trying to. I will set up Pics when I get my digital camera and learn how to use it. I am a way low tech person. > I have cut way back on tanks since my health is failing somewhat and now only maintain 8- well, 10 if you count the 2 quarantine tanks. I am a nut for plants in both Fresh and Salt tanks. Useful and beautiful- what's not to like? > > 92- Salt Fish Only > 75 Reef > 56 Goldfish > 55 Reef > 54 Planted Fresh community > 45 Livebearer fresh- also planted > 15 Brackish Puffer > 14 Salt Growout & remote refugium > 10- Salt quarantine > 5 -Fresh quarantine > > Lookin' forward to getting to know y'all. > Chris >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52914	From: phyllis	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Intro- Amber

I have sold or given away over 25 tanks between 2 1/2 and 280 gallon over the past 6-7 years. The other half says the place was like a LFS before...and the electric bill was a whopper. I can no longer maintain really large tanks well enough to keep them. But I still get on a step stool for my deep 92 and 54 Corner Bow Fronts 'cause they ain't goin' anywhere before I do! The one tank size that I covet and have never had- is a 150 long. I may freak out the better half and get one ( but I better be prepared to RUN! ). Question: What is a Walstad? A brand name or a type of tank? Thanks to the ones that responded. I hope to be able to help and to learn. Chris Welcome to the group Chris. We can always use more people around for salt water tank advice, since most of us have freshwater tanks. If you've cut way back I'd hate to think how many tanks you used to have, LOL. I have 7 freshwater tanks ranging from 10 gallons up to 125 gallon tank. All of my tanks are planted freshwater tanks (low tech, most of them are Walstad planted tanks). Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52915	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intro- Amber

Wow, that's quite a lot of fish tanks, I can only imagine! My husband would make me move out, LOL. Walstad is a type of planted tank. Diana Walstad is the one that came up with the method, years ago. She has a book out as well. Basically under the gravel is a layer of soil, for the plants to root themselves into naturally, and provide nutrients. It's supposed to be for a low-light setup. A natural way for the plants to get all the nutrients they need and thrive. Obviously this type of setup would not be good for fish that like to dig in the substrate. http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method Amber On 1/22/2012 8:46 AM, phyllis wrote: > > I have sold or given away over 25 tanks between 2 1/2 and 280 gallon > over the past 6-7 years. The other half says the place was like a LFS > before...and the electric bill was a whopper. I can no longer maintain > really large tanks well enough to keep them. But I still get on a step > stool for my deep 92 and 54 Corner Bow Fronts 'cause they ain't goin' > anywhere before I do! The one tank size that I covet and have never > had- is a 150 long. I may freak out the better half and get one ( but > I better be prepared to RUN! ). > > Question: What is a Walstad? A brand name or a type of tank? > > Thanks to the ones that responded. I hope to be able to help and to learn. > Chris > > Welcome to the group Chris. We can always use more people around for > salt water tank advice, since most of us have freshwater tanks. > If you've cut way back I'd hate to think how many tanks you used to > have, LOL. > I have 7 freshwater tanks ranging from 10 gallons up to 125 gallon tank. > All of my tanks are planted freshwater tanks (low tech, most of them are > Walstad planted tanks). > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52916	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

The tank is a ten gallon long I don't know the exact dimensions,it holds ten gallons,I have a top filter,the cichlids are auratus African cichlids I think. Emma. --- On Sat, 1/21/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [Aquatic Life] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 11:33 PM   Hi Emma, When I replied I did not notice the topic where you clearly stated 10 gallon tank. So we probably need to know what kind of cichlids you have to figure <br> out their maximum size and gauge their needs. Cichlids can be as small as an inch and almost up to three feet. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Deenerz <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Hi Emma, How many gallons does your tank hold? What are the dimensions of your tank? What kind of filtration do you have at the moment? Can you tell us what kind of cichlids you have? -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 6:01 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52917	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Yes I will be removing the cichlids but I'm not sure about the tetras. --- On Sat, 1/21/12, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 21, 2012, 9:38 PM   Are you removing the cichlids? If you are keeping them, what kind are they? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emma Caccia Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank hi everybody i need ideas for what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52918	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intro- Amber

You mean there are other kinds of fish that DON'T pick in the substrate? LOL. Ms Walstad ( I checked the link- thanks! ) describes my first tanks actually. Because we were broke and the 5 & dime only had crazy colors of gravel. I liked a natural look to my tank. I used mud out of the back yard and river rocks for my Goldfishes. Hmmm... can you say retro?   I guess I am happy with my micro gravel these days. My plants sure do agree with it and grow and spread to the point that I have to throw some away ( I heard y'all gasp! ) because sadly, nobody I know locally is into planted tanks and the local Pet Shop will only buy so much. I have decent lighting though. If I ever had to do a low light tank, I may have to go back and re-read that link. But I would think eventually, all soil / substrate would have to be regenerated, added to, or replaced- no matter what it is. Just my thought....   Your warm welcome is appreciated Amber!   Chris ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Intro- Amber Wow, that's quite a lot of fish tanks, I can only imagine! My husband would make me move out, LOL. Walstad is a type of planted tank. Diana Walstad is the one that came up with the method, years ago. She has a book out as well. Basically under the gravel is a layer of soil, for the plants to root themselves into naturally, and provide nutrients. It's supposed to be for a low-light setup. A natural way for the plants to get all the nutrients they need and thrive. Obviously this type of setup would not be good for fish that like to dig in the substrate. http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method Amber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52919	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich...

Hi Ray, thanks for the advice! Unfortunately I had started the Maracide already before I could read any answers here. Two mollies had started alarmingly fast to behave very sick and I was afraid of losing any more time. In the fish-shop I was advised that Maracide is the most harmless way of treating ich and the company states that the biofilter stays intact... I think Maradel claims the use of new technology of microspheres that encloses the Malachite Green in particles that dissolve slowly on the fish. Why it does not dissolve on the biofilter as well is not explained...? So right now I am just hoping it will hold up long enough. I still did a partial water change and just added the according amount of medication into the new water again. I had read about heat and salt treatment and was afraid it might not be effective for all strains of ich? If the usual experience is that it works well already at 86F I will try it. Is there any danger to white clouds at this temperature for several days? Or is the Malachit Green worse for the Neons and the other fish? I would have two more days of treatment... should I just stop and try the heat instead? The fish shop stated that the medication is so harmless that it is better to use it than to risk the continuous infection but now it seems Malachite Green is carcinogen and possible deadly for some fish :( It is difficult to find right decisions with different types of fish involved and little experience. Thanks a lot, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > First of all, regardless of whether or not the carbon in your filter will absorb your medication -- which it will, just as Charles states -- or whether the medication's instructions say that you can leave the carbon in the filter (or even if you remove the carbon), the bottom line is that the main ingredient of Maracide is Malachite Green (as printed on the bottle). Malachite Green is lethal to your nitrifying bacteria, just as it's lethal to Ich protozoa. As it appears that at least part of your concern is that you want to preserve your nitrifying bacteria, know that whether or not you remove your carbon, the remainder of any nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium -- on your gravel, your glass, in your filter sans carbon or anywhere else in your aquarium will be wiped out by using Maracide. > > What little nitrifying bacteria you may have saved by removing it (if you can keep it alive, which is questionable) will not be enough to resume your cycle once you reinstall it; you'll no doubt need to go through a mini-cycle at best and may still need to recycle your tank from the beginning as there's no way to save the bacteria on your carbon without placing it in another aquarium's filter. > > Why would you want to subject your fishes to a harsh chemical medication though, when all's you need to do for treating Ich would be to give your aquarium the heat treatment for Ich? This does not require any harsh medications or chemicals of any sort, but merely a rise in temperature to at least 86 degrees with the addition of a token amount of salt at the rate of only 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. There are many fish will will not tolerate Malachite Green at the manufacturer-recommended doseage and will die as a result of using it. If you have any Cory catfish or Loaches (and yes, Neon Tetras), I'd advise you remove this Maracide immediately or at least make a 50% PWC to cut the doseage in half -- IF you still want to continue with it. Personally, If it were me. I'd remove it entirely and go with the chemical-free heat treatment for Ich. One of the first rules of aquarium maintenance is to not add ANY chemicals to the fishes' water, unless absolutely necessary. There are occassions when it is mnecessary, but this is not one of them. > > Yes, quarantining new fish for up to ONE MONTH, is or should be routinely done, to observe them during this time in efforts not to introduce diseases into your main aquarium and to be able to treat any new fish for diseases they may be carrying. > > The heat treatment requires keeping the temperature at 86 o, for a minimum of two days after seeing no more signs of Ich. This may take up to ten day, depending on how fast the Ich is erradicated, after which the temperatureis broufght back down slowly over two days. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. > > In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... > > I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > > Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > > > How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? > > > > Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? > > Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52920	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Hi Ray again, I sent my previous message too fast... I will stop the Malachite Green and will go with the heat treatment instead after a big water change. I will also get new bacteria that I will add additionally. I hope the fish and tank will be forgiving.. Thanks for your advice! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > First of all, regardless of whether or not the carbon in your filter will absorb your medication -- which it will, just as Charles states -- or whether the medication's instructions say that you can leave the carbon in the filter (or even if you remove the carbon), the bottom line is that the main ingredient of Maracide is Malachite Green (as printed on the bottle). Malachite Green is lethal to your nitrifying bacteria, just as it's lethal to Ich protozoa. As it appears that at least part of your concern is that you want to preserve your nitrifying bacteria, know that whether or not you remove your carbon, the remainder of any nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium -- on your gravel, your glass, in your filter sans carbon or anywhere else in your aquarium will be wiped out by using Maracide. > > What little nitrifying bacteria you may have saved by removing it (if you can keep it alive, which is questionable) will not be enough to resume your cycle once you reinstall it; you'll no doubt need to go through a mini-cycle at best and may still need to recycle your tank from the beginning as there's no way to save the bacteria on your carbon without placing it in another aquarium's filter. > > Why would you want to subject your fishes to a harsh chemical medication though, when all's you need to do for treating Ich would be to give your aquarium the heat treatment for Ich? This does not require any harsh medications or chemicals of any sort, but merely a rise in temperature to at least 86 degrees with the addition of a token amount of salt at the rate of only 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. There are many fish will will not tolerate Malachite Green at the manufacturer-recommended doseage and will die as a result of using it. If you have any Cory catfish or Loaches (and yes, Neon Tetras), I'd advise you remove this Maracide immediately or at least make a 50% PWC to cut the doseage in half -- IF you still want to continue with it. Personally, If it were me. I'd remove it entirely and go with the chemical-free heat treatment for Ich. One of the first rules of aquarium maintenance is to not add ANY chemicals to the fishes' water, unless absolutely necessary. There are occassions when it is mnecessary, but this is not one of them. > > Yes, quarantining new fish for up to ONE MONTH, is or should be routinely done, to observe them during this time in efforts not to introduce diseases into your main aquarium and to be able to treat any new fish for diseases they may be carrying. > > The heat treatment requires keeping the temperature at 86 o, for a minimum of two days after seeing no more signs of Ich. This may take up to ten day, depending on how fast the Ich is erradicated, after which the temperatureis broufght back down slowly over two days. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. > > In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... > > I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > > Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > > > How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? > > > > Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? > > Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52921	From: Ray	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich...

Hi Nora, I saw (and approved for posting) your next message after this, but before moving on to it I fist wanted to ad a reply here. If there is a new technology developed by Mardel to enclose their Malachite Grren within microspheres, that's a great step forward. I hadn't heard of this until now, but then, I haven't been made aware of any type of news from this company. I would hope that this new technology is real and that this is not just an advertising ploy to sell more product. In consideration of your latest reply here so far (and not yet going to your next post), I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying since you haven't said if this PWC was before or after you added the medication, but there would be no need to remedicate after doing the PWC if you already had medication in there before the PWC. The PWC would be done to reduce the amount of medication, to make it safe for fish not tolerating the full amount. By adding more medication after the PWC, you'd be subjecting these fish to dangerous levels of toxic (to them) medication again, if you dosed the tank previously with Maracide. Glad to see that you've read about the heat treatment for Ich, and that you're at least somewhat familiar with it. The heat treatment is effective for both strains of Ich, including the latest virulent one that remains viable above 86 o. With this strain, one needs to increase the temperature to 92 o. Most fish will tolerate this, but not all. Fortunately, this new strain is still EXTREMELY rare and VERY SELDOM seen. It's very unlikely you need to deal with it. Malachite Green (a dye medication) is much more toxic to Neons and other Tetras than it is to White Clouds. White Clouds are in the Carp/"Minnows" Family, which are not as affected by dye medications. When ever at all possible, increased aeration should be used with the heat treatment to ensure the highest concentration of oxygen in the water at the high temperature. This would especially benefit fish having a normally lower temperature requirement than most other tropical fish, and White Clouds would be one species of fish having a normally lower temperature requirement. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > thanks for the advice! > Unfortunately I had started the Maracide already before I could read any answers here. Two mollies had started alarmingly fast to behave very sick and I was afraid of losing any more time. > > In the fish-shop I was advised that Maracide is the most harmless way of treating ich and the company states that the biofilter stays intact... I think Maradel claims the use of new technology of microspheres that encloses the Malachite Green in particles that dissolve slowly on the fish. Why it does not dissolve on the biofilter as well is not explained...? So right now I am just hoping it will hold up long enough. I still did a partial water change and just added the according amount of medication into the new water again. > > I had read about heat and salt treatment and was afraid it might not be effective for all strains of ich? If the usual experience is that it works well already at 86F I will try it. Is there any danger to white clouds at this temperature for several days? > Or is the Malachit Green worse for the Neons and the other fish? > > I would have two more days of treatment... should I just stop and try the heat instead? > > The fish shop stated that the medication is so harmless that it is better to use it than to risk the continuous infection but now it seems Malachite Green is carcinogen and possible deadly for some fish :( > It is difficult to find right decisions with different types of fish involved and little experience. > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > First of all, regardless of whether or not the carbon in your filter will absorb your medication -- which it will, just as Charles states -- or whether the medication's instructions say that you can leave the carbon in the filter (or even if you remove the carbon), the bottom line is that the main ingredient of Maracide is Malachite Green (as printed on the bottle). Malachite Green is lethal to your nitrifying bacteria, just as it's lethal to Ich protozoa. As it appears that at least part of your concern is that you want to preserve your nitrifying bacteria, know that whether or not you remove your carbon, the remainder of any nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium -- on your gravel, your glass, in your filter sans carbon or anywhere else in your aquarium will be wiped out by using Maracide. > > > > What little nitrifying bacteria you may have saved by removing it (if you can keep it alive, which is questionable) will not be enough to resume your cycle once you reinstall it; you'll no doubt need to go through a mini-cycle at best and may still need to recycle your tank from the beginning as there's no way to save the bacteria on your carbon without placing it in another aquarium's filter. > > > > Why would you want to subject your fishes to a harsh chemical medication though, when all's you need to do for treating Ich would be to give your aquarium the heat treatment for Ich? This does not require any harsh medications or chemicals of any sort, but merely a rise in temperature to at least 86 degrees with the addition of a token amount of salt at the rate of only 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. There are many fish will will not tolerate Malachite Green at the manufacturer-recommended doseage and will die as a result of using it. If you have any Cory catfish or Loaches (and yes, Neon Tetras), I'd advise you remove this Maracide immediately or at least make a 50% PWC to cut the doseage in half -- IF you still want to continue with it. Personally, If it were me. I'd remove it entirely and go with the chemical-free heat treatment for Ich. One of the first rules of aquarium maintenance is to not add ANY chemicals to the fishes' water, unless absolutely necessary. There are occassions when it is mnecessary, but this is not one of them. > > > > Yes, quarantining new fish for up to ONE MONTH, is or should be routinely done, to observe them during this time in efforts not to introduce diseases into your main aquarium and to be able to treat any new fish for diseases they may be carrying. > > > > The heat treatment requires keeping the temperature at 86 o, for a minimum of two days after seeing no more signs of Ich. This may take up to ten day, depending on how fast the Ich is erradicated, after which the temperatureis broufght back down slowly over two days. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. > > > In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... > > > I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > > > Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > > > > > How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? > > > > > > Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? > > > Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52922	From: Ray	Date: 1/23/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Hi Nora, If Mardel's new development of encapsulating the Malachite Green in its Maracide actually works in time-releasing of the medication, there should be little adverse effects on your Neons. As this dye medication is toxic to protozoa (such as Ich), it would stand to reason that it would be toxic to bacteria, including Nitrobacters, etc. (nitrifying bacteria), regardless of whether it's time-released. As you're going to buy new bacteria again, there's really no need for you to stop the Malachite Green treatment at this stage of the game, as long as it's being administered at half-strength. I do understand your concern about it's carcinogenic characteristic though, but I have no idea how much this property of it has an effect. There have been a number of excellent fish medications available in the past for treating tropical fish of pathogens they may develop, and found to be carcinogenic -- Chloromycetin being but one example of this -- but the claims have always made me wonder if these findings were meant as a warning for human contact with them or for fish contact with them. Chloromycetin was one of the best fish medications available for treating just about any fish disease you could think of, until it was taken off the market. Either way, you'd want to avoid them, but I've never heard of anyone (or any fish) being adversely affected by either of these two meds (unless possibly by ingesting them). While you've already started the Maracide treatment, you may just as well follow through with it since your bacteria may well have been affected by now anyhow, but whenever being confronted with anything new needing to be attended to in the future, you may want to first discuss it here in the future before acting on it, to know how to best proceed. If you decide on trying the heat treatment, bring the temp up to 87 o, if you're not sure of your thermometer's accuracy -- and have an airpump and airstone going, if you have one. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray again, > > I sent my previous message too fast... > I will stop the Malachite Green and will go with the heat treatment instead after a big water change. I will also get new bacteria that I will add additionally. > I hope the fish and tank will be forgiving.. > > Thanks for your advice! > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > First of all, regardless of whether or not the carbon in your filter will absorb your medication -- which it will, just as Charles states -- or whether the medication's instructions say that you can leave the carbon in the filter (or even if you remove the carbon), the bottom line is that the main ingredient of Maracide is Malachite Green (as printed on the bottle). Malachite Green is lethal to your nitrifying bacteria, just as it's lethal to Ich protozoa. As it appears that at least part of your concern is that you want to preserve your nitrifying bacteria, know that whether or not you remove your carbon, the remainder of any nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium -- on your gravel, your glass, in your filter sans carbon or anywhere else in your aquarium will be wiped out by using Maracide. > > > > What little nitrifying bacteria you may have saved by removing it (if you can keep it alive, which is questionable) will not be enough to resume your cycle once you reinstall it; you'll no doubt need to go through a mini-cycle at best and may still need to recycle your tank from the beginning as there's no way to save the bacteria on your carbon without placing it in another aquarium's filter. > > > > Why would you want to subject your fishes to a harsh chemical medication though, when all's you need to do for treating Ich would be to give your aquarium the heat treatment for Ich? This does not require any harsh medications or chemicals of any sort, but merely a rise in temperature to at least 86 degrees with the addition of a token amount of salt at the rate of only 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. There are many fish will will not tolerate Malachite Green at the manufacturer-recommended doseage and will die as a result of using it. If you have any Cory catfish or Loaches (and yes, Neon Tetras), I'd advise you remove this Maracide immediately or at least make a 50% PWC to cut the doseage in half -- IF you still want to continue with it. Personally, If it were me. I'd remove it entirely and go with the chemical-free heat treatment for Ich. One of the first rules of aquarium maintenance is to not add ANY chemicals to the fishes' water, unless absolutely necessary. There are occassions when it is mnecessary, but this is not one of them. > > > > Yes, quarantining new fish for up to ONE MONTH, is or should be routinely done, to observe them during this time in efforts not to introduce diseases into your main aquarium and to be able to treat any new fish for diseases they may be carrying. > > > > The heat treatment requires keeping the temperature at 86 o, for a minimum of two days after seeing no more signs of Ich. This may take up to ten day, depending on how fast the Ich is erradicated, after which the temperatureis broufght back down slowly over two days. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I think my fish might be infected by ich and started treatment with Maracide from Mardel. > > > In the product description it is said if the carbon filter is older than 6 days it can be left in place. Different sources say generally to remove the carbon filter... > > > I would like to keep it in place because I think some of the "good" bacteria live there (I have a newly cycled tank and when I exchanged the carbon filter I got a nitrite spike recently). > > > Any experience if it makes a difference for the treatment to leave or remove the "not new" carbon filter? > > > > > > How bad is malachite green for neon tetra? I read somewhere they might be more sensitive for it? Any other products recommended that are better with live plants in the tank? > > > > > > Another question: if you buy new fish, is it common to put them for up to 2 weeks in a quarantine tank first? Does everybody here do it routinely? > > > Until now I always added the fish directly and also made the mistake of buying fish from a tank with dead fish in it :( > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52923	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: treating ich... carbon filter out?

Hi Ray, thanks, one molly seemed a little better (the other one is white and I do not see if it has spots but it seems sick: resting a lot and swimming sometimes vertically head up) and the tetras seem ok so I will finish the last remaining day with the Maracide. I added an airstone approx. 2 weeks ago to make sure they have enough oxygen with the high temp. (usually between 78 and 80) and the fish sometimes take a bubble bath. Because I probably cannot test the water quality with the medication I did every 1-2 days a partial water change and added "some" medication accordingly. Unfortunately, I am not sure if the medication coats everything immediately or is still present in the water after a day. So I had to guess how much medication I have taken out with the PWC and tried to find a compromise with adding maybe half the amount of the "maybe missing" medication .... If the fish are not better after 1-2 days I will wait a few days and probably try the heat treatment if I still see white spots. I just hope it is really ich and nothing else.... But with all the fish from different stores it would not be surprising. Thanks for your help! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52924	From: Paul	Date: 1/24/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Pygmy Cory Cats --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: > > hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52925	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

If you want a peaceful tank- I'd rehome the cichlids and go with Tetras. There dozens of varieties that will do well for you. Stay at about 1 inch of the adult size of the fish per gallon to avoid over crowding.   Hope that helps- Chris ________________________________   > hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52926	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 1:35 AM EST Paul wrote: >Pygmy Cory Cats > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52927	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

My suggestions is to find a home for the auratus cichlids. Even among cichlids I have found these to be very aggressive. I love cichlids and this is mostly what I keep but Auratus are too much for your tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 10:26 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 1:35 AM EST Paul wrote: >Pygmy Cory Cats > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52928	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts, Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom.   Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or you can and most likely will- throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People that insist on an instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good.   Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...>   Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52929	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: to clean or not to clean.

that is the question. after a year of use my gravel vacuum hose is getting quite ...well...gross.. black icky...you get the picture. should i clean it by soaking it in a bleach solution or something.. and rinse well? or dont worry about it; since its just the tanks own bacteria? i always hang it up to dry after use. once again i thank you for your expertise. al. p.s. both tanks are doing well...as are our younguns.. baby corries are so cute!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52930	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.

Al. I would just try HOT water. If you can run hot tap water through it it does a pretty good job. That and a soak will often do it. If you want you can also get some apple cider vinegar. That stuff is good at cleaning a lot of things. I am trying it right now in a cup with a fist full of mts snails to see if it will kill them. Mike -----Original Message----- From: al_keep_fish@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:11 am Subject: [AquaticLife] to clean or not to clean. that is the question. after a year of use my gravel vacuum hose is getting quite ...well...gross.. black icky...you get the picture. should i clean it by soaking it in a bleach solution or something.. and rinse well? or dont worry about it; since its just the tanks own bacteria? i always hang it up to dry after use. once again i thank you for your expertise. al. p.s. both tanks are doing well...as are our younguns.. baby corries are so cute! #AOLMsgPart_1_5ab208e5-2858-4447-8844-25736c6b8e71 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_5ab208e5-2858-4447-8844-25736c6b8e71 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_5ab208e5-2858-4447-8844-25736c6b8e71 #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_5ab208e5-2858-4447-8844-25736c6b8e71 #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52931	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Cool but I only have a ten gallon. And for some reason I don't like tetras. Emma.     --- On Wed, 1/25/12, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 1:44 PM   Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts, Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom.   Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or you can and most likely will- throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People that insist on an instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good.   Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...>   Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52932	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

i know i'm looking for a home for them and the tetras --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 2:20 PM   My suggestions is to find a home for the auratus cichlids. Even among cichlids I have found these to be very aggressive. I love cichlids and this is mostly what I keep but Auratus are too much for your tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 10:26 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 1:35 AM EST Paul wrote: >Pygmy Cory Cats > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52933	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Have you looke at celestial pearl danios? I have about 14 in an 8 gallon tank and they don't take up very much room at all. They are quite colorful. Or Endlers live bearers. i have some in two tanks. Males are pretty and females are just brown. but a few male endlers alone mixed with the danios and some pygmy cories would be nice. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank i know i'm looking for a home for them and the tetras --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 2:20 PM My suggestions is to find a home for the auratus cichlids. Even among cichlids I have found these to be very aggressive. I love cichlids and this is mostly what I keep but Auratus are too much for your tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 10:26 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 1:35 AM EST Paul wrote: >Pygmy Cory Cats > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> hi everybody i need ideas for what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_615a5fe3-54fc-4e18-a0e9-0f2f2fd5d888 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_615a5fe3-54fc-4e18-a0e9-0f2f2fd5d888 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52934	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching out of an opening if they can. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Cool but I only have a ten gallon. And for some reason I don't like tetras. Emma. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 1:44 PM Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts,Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom. Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or youcan and most likely will-throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People thatinsist onan instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good. Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52935	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

unfortunately the pet store i go to doesn't have them. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: [Aquatic Life] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:27 PM   Have you looke at celestial pearl lookers? I have about 14 in an 8 gallon tank and they don't take up very much room at all. They are quite colorful. Or Endlers live bearers. i have some in two tanks. Males are pretty and females are just brown. but a few male endlers alone mixed with the danios and some pygmy cories would be nice. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank i know i'm looking for a home for them and the tetras --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 2:20 PM My suggestions is to find a home for the auratus cichlids. Even among cichlids I have found these to be very aggressive. I love cichlids and this is mostly what I keep but Auratus are too much for your tank. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 10:26 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 1:35 AM EST Paul wrote: >Pygmy Cory Cats > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> hi everybody i need ideas for what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_615a5fe3-54fc-4e18-a0e9-0f2f2fd5d888 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_615a5fe3-54fc-4e18-a0e9-0f2f2fd5d888 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52936	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.

Oh heavens yes Al! Please do clean your siphon. Bleach water at 1 part to 5 warm water. Scrub out what you can reach with bottle brush. Rinse until you think it is absolutely bleach free and then rinse it some more. To prevent in future- always rinse your equipment well with clear water before storing. It is not ok to leave the bacteria on/in  it because it is 'just tank water'. My 2 cents- keep the change.   Cory babies are sweet little boogers. Good luck! Chris ________________________________    that is the question. after a year of use my gravel vacuum hose is getting quite ...well...gross.. black icky...you get the picture. should i clean it by soaking it in a bleach solution or something.. and rinse well? or dont worry about it; since its just the tanks own bacteria? i always hang it up to dry after use. once again i thank you for your expertise. al. p.s. both tanks are doing well...as are our younguns.. baby corries are so cute! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52937	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

my tank is well covered what kind of hatchets would u suggest for a ten gallon tank --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:31 PM   Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching out of an opening if they can. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Cool but I only have a ten gallon. And for some reason I don't like tetras. Emma. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 1:44 PM Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts,Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom. Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or youcan and most likely will-throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People thatinsist onan instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good. Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52938	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

I was thinking about that but the tertras i have are aggressive the killed the other tetras i had so i'm not to sure about the tetras my mom loves the though. Emma. ------------------------------ On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:57 AM EST phyllis crubaugh wrote: >If you want a peaceful tank- I'd rehome the cichlids and go with Tetras. There dozens of varieties that will do well for you. Stay at about 1 inch of the adult size of the fish per gallon to avoid over crowding. >  >Hope that helps- Chris > > >________________________________ >  >> hi everybody i need ideas for  what kind of fish i can put in my tank.it currently holds 2 cichlids and 3 rosy finned tetras. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52939	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

As far as I know there are only two kinds. I would send a link but I am on my phone and not the most talented at using it ;) Not too many stores in my area carry them. if your local store has even one kind you are pretty lucky. As another option see if your store has Killifish. Most stores only carry the golden wonder killi but there are hundreds of Killifish that are stunning in their color and finnage. Most killifish keepers buy online or tade with each other. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:43 am Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank my tank is well covered what kind of hatchets would u suggest for a ten gallon tank --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:31 PM Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching out of an opening if they can. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Cool but I only have a ten gallon. And for some reason I don't like tetras. Emma. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 1:44 PM Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts,Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom. Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or youcan and most likely will-throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People thatinsist onan instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good. Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52940	From: emilynicole527	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: HELP!!! Albino African Dwarf Frog - can see red veins now??

I was going to clean my frogs' tank when one of them bumped his head on the lid... now he has visible red lines all over his body- like blood veins... The other two still are normal and don't have these red veins. I tried looking up what was wrong but apparently albinos are so rare no one had anything to post about them. HELP!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52941	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/25/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.

Hi Al, I agree-keep it as clean as you possibly can because even though it is just tank water-that tank water is bio-water & full of bacteria good & bad. Even aged tap water from the mains causes hoses to become soiled after repeated use. The low-tech cleaning method is to use a small amount of sand or light gravel inserted into the tube with a small funnel. Then add a few inches of water, hold your thumbs over both ends & shake the sand & water mix along the hose-this will bring all of the debris off the inside & you can just flush it with hot water then-I just stick it up the tap nozzle int eh bath & turn it on! The high tech method is simply to use a hose brush that you can buy at any LFS, it's a small bottle brush on a length of rigid but flexible nylon stick. John*<o)))< * On 25 January 2012 21:31, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...>wrote: > ** > > > Oh heavens yes Al! Please do clean your siphon. Bleach water at 1 part to > 5 warm water. Scrub out what you can reach with bottle brush. Rinse until > you think it is absolutely bleach free and then rinse it some more. To > prevent in future- always rinse your equipment well with clear water before > storing. It is not ok to leave the bacteria on/in it because it is 'just > tank water'. My 2 cents- keep the change. > > Cory babies are sweet little boogers. Good luck! > Chris > > > ________________________________ > > > that is the question. > after a year of use my gravel vacuum hose is getting > quite ...well...gross.. black icky...you get the picture. > should i clean it by soaking it in a bleach solution > or something.. and rinse well? > or dont worry about it; since its just the tanks own bacteria? > i always hang it up to dry after use. > once again i thank you for your expertise. > al. > p.s. both tanks are doing well...as are our younguns.. > baby corries are so cute! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52942	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Albino African Dwarf Frog - can see red veins now??

The red veins visible through the entire body can be caused by stress, which would happen after an injury. (that's what this sounds like) As long as the frog continues to eat and act normally I would not be too concerned, but watch him closely for a few days and make sure he is ok. Unfortunately there is no way to fix blunt force trauma for this kind of animal, so there is no "treatment" to suggest for you. If the frog appears to be a bit weaker than the others and falls prey to any bullying it may need to be moved to a quarantine tank for a bit of time in order for it to recover safely. Unless it hit the cover extremely hard and caused some sort of physical injury to the brain (which is unlikely) there should be no cause for alarm. These animals can get bruises just like people can and those things just take time to heal. If there's anything more you need for help with it, please feel free to post. I will do all I can to help you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "emilynicole527" <emolsen@...> wrote: > > I was going to clean my frogs' tank when one of them bumped his head on the lid... now he has visible red lines all over his body- like blood veins... The other two still are normal and don't have these red veins. I tried looking up what was wrong but apparently albinos are so rare no one had anything to post about them. HELP! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52943	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.

Hot bleach water should do the trick, and if the hose is really dirty it may take soaking it for a night or 2 to get it completely clean. This should not hurt the hose. The bleach will completely eradicate any organic build up inside the hose if it is left exposed to it long enough, and then all you would need to do is rinse well by running some hot water through the hose until all odor of bleach is gone. If this is a long hose (over 10 ft) then you can also hook up a basic pump (such as a rio) in a bucket of hot water, attach one end of the hose to the pump and coil it into the bucket so it continues to recirculate, add bleach water, and let it run for an hour or 2. This is the method I use for cleaning my python hose about once/yr and it comes clean rather quickly without wasting a lot of water. Once clean just run the clean water through it as described, until all odor or bleach is gone, and let it sit to dry completely for a few days. When allowing the hose to dry be sure it isn't coiled up, which will trap moisture inside of it, thus not allowing any traces of bleach to evaporate. The reason bleach is safe is because when allowed to completely air dry it will evaporate and not leave any residue that could harm the fish. And I agree with the others... its very important to keep your hoses clean. Bacteria that builds up in the hose will get into the water that runs through that hose and can send things into your tank that could eventually cause problems. Dirty hoses are not "safe". Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > that is the question. > after a year of use my gravel vacuum hose is getting > quite ...well...gross.. black icky...you get the picture. > should i clean it by soaking it in a bleach solution > or something.. and rinse well? > or dont worry about it; since its just the tanks own bacteria? > i always hang it up to dry after use. > once again i thank you for your expertise. > al. > p.s. both tanks are doing well...as are our younguns.. > baby corries are so cute! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52944	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/26/2012
Subject: Re: to clean or not to clean.

Thanks folks; I shall make it my project before my next p.w.c.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52945	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

they don't have killifish either they aren't the best pet store but at the other one i may as well be buying dead fish --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 5:25 PM   As far as I know there are only two kinds. I would send a link but I am on my phone and not the most talented at using it ;) Not too many stores in my area carry them. if your local store has even one kind you are pretty lucky. As another option see if your store has Killifish. Most stores only carry the golden wonder killi but there are hundreds of Killifish that are stunning in their color and finnage. Most killifish keepers buy online or tade with each other. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:43 am Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank my tank is well covered what kind of hatchets would u suggest for a ten gallon tank --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:31 PM Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching out of an opening if they can. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank Cool but I only have a ten gallon. And for some reason I don't like tetras. Emma. --- On Wed, 1/25/12, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 1:44 PM Hatchets- both reg and marbled are lovely and stay at the top of the water column. Most of the Tetra group are more in the middle. Headlight/Tail lights, Cardinals, Black skirts,Zebra Danios, Black Neons, Lemons- a whole gaggle of 'em will work for you! There are literally dozens of Tetras to choose from. Go to your local shop & watch them a bit before purchase. Choose what turns you on. I LOVE to toss in a school of Rummy Noses! They are schooling fish that gallop around together like a herd of mustangs- red faces and checkered tails. Look cool and lots of movement. Try 3 total for your tank size. A loach and Cory Cat for the bottom. Tetras being the most peaceable of Community fishes are colorful, easily obtained and basically, a no-brainer. I have a few dozen in my heavily planted 54 corner bowfront tank with 22 gal sump. Go slow and only add 1-2 fish at a time, or youcan and most likely will-throw your bio load into crash. Besides, anticipation is a wonderful thing. People thatinsist onan instant tankful should take a picture of one, hang it on the wall and call it good. Hope that was helpful- Chris ________________________________ From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> Thanks do u have any good ideas for middle or top swimmers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_709bd6c3-7a43-4b8d-9569-6a4cdb56b1ca #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52946	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Well there is always aquabid.com Lot of variety, just read the sellers feedback and read the forums for the inside scoop on sellers! -Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 7:32 am Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank they don't have killifish either they aren't the best pet store but at the other one i may as well be buying dead fish --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 5:25 PM   As far as I know there are only two kinds. I would send a link but I am on my phone and not the most talented at using it ;) Not too many stores in my area carry them. if your local store has even one kind you are pretty lucky. As another option see if your store has Killifish. Most stores only carry the golden wonder killi but there are hundreds of Killifish that are stunning in their color and finnage. Most killifish keepers buy online or tade with each other. Mike -----Original Message----- From: horserider283@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:43 am Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank my tank is well covered what kind of hatchets would u suggest for a ten gallon tank --- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:31 PM Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching out of an opening if they can. Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52947	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten gallon tank

Cool ------------------------------ On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 11:30 PM EST Deenerz@... wrote: >Well there is always aquabid.com > >Lot of variety, just read the sellers feedback and read the forums for >the inside scoop on sellers! > >-Mike G > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> >To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 7:32 am >Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a >ten gallon tank > > > > > >they don't have killifish either they aren't the best pet store but at >the other one i may as well be buying dead fish > >--- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > >From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> >Subject: Re: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a >ten gallon tank >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 5:25 PM > >  > >As far as I know there are only two kinds. I would send a link but I am >on my phone and not the most talented at using it ;) > >Not too many stores in my area carry them. if your local store has even >one kind you are pretty lucky. > >As another option see if your store has Killifish. Most stores only >carry the golden wonder killi but there are hundreds of Killifish that >are stunning in their color and finnage. Most killifish keepers buy >online or tade with each other. > >Mike > >-----Original Message----- > >From: horserider283@... > >To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:43 am > >Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten >gallon tank > >my tank is well covered what kind of hatchets would u suggest for a ten >gallon tank > >--- On Wed, 1/25/12, Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> wrote: > >From: Deenerz@... <Deenerz@...> > >Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: what kind of fish can u put in a ten >gallon tank > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 4:31 PM > >Hatchets are very cool fish. However you want to make sure the top of >your tank is well covered. If you look at hatchets you will see they >are a great little flying fish and they will take a stab at launching >out of an opening if they can. > >Mike

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52948	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/28/2012
Subject: quarantine/hospital tank - sick molly

Hi, I recently tried ich treatment on my 10 G tank with livebearers and tetras in it. All fish survived but an orange molly is still sick and I do not know what it has (only two mollies seem sick before and one seems better). I never saw many spots on the fish but suspected ich because I never used precautions with new fish and the molly has some lighter spots on it (or rather "blank looking" areas) and the gills seem more yellowish than they should be or were. The fish lays around a lot on the bottom on the tank and hardly eats anymore. It can swim around normally if necessary but tries to rest. What should I do with this molly? My water quality is not perfect but not too bad, considering that the tetras are fine I do not think that this is the main problem. I just bought a new 10 G tank to use as a hospital (and in the future as quarantine) tank. I thought I start with some antibiotics in this tank to see if the molly has a gill infections. What else can/should I do? Generally: how should one handle such a tank. After having the molly in it (with good or bad ending), should I disinfect it somehow? How? I read one should keep the tank cycled, zebra danios were suggested for the time in between use as quarantine/hospital. Could I put them in the community tank whenever I need their hospital tank? Are they peaceful enough? Thanks a lot, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52949	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: storing filter media

so im knocking down my 75 for an indefinite amount of time. i have an eheim external canister. whats the best way to store the media, or should i just start over from new when i put it back up? erika newark de usa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52950	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi, my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52951	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media

You do not say what types of filtering media that you use- but I'll try to answer it. The type of media that stays and you do not normally have to replace like bio-balls, plugs, etc- Anything that you can properly clean well- I would boil gently in 1 part bleach to 10 parts water - pour off and then soak overnight in clear water. Pour off the water and then soak them overnight again in clear water. Stir well. Allow to dry completely before storing. The rest? I would toss it out. Point is not to store dirty/or wet stuff so you don't have anearobic ( Never could spell that darn word! ) bacterias building up in storage. Toss the rest because you cannot clean it well for storage. Maybe somebody else would do it differently-jump in. Bummer that you have to tear it down- even for a while.  Hope that helped you. Chris ________________________________ so im knocking down my 75 for an indefinite amount of time. i have an eheim external canister. whats the best way to store the media, or should i just start over from new when i put it back up? erika newark de usa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52952	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/29/2012
Subject: Lifeguard from Tetra: experiences?

Hi, I just bought Lifeguard from tetra to treat my sick molly. I can hardly find detailed reviews from customers... Does anybody has experience with this medication? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52953	From: haecklers	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52954	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media

Having done this several times, my suggestion is to rinse the solid media (ceramic disks, bio- porous rock etc. under the hot water tap, leave out to dry, then put it in the cleaned filter canister for storage. Same for the blue stiff pad (if your model has this). I have done this for periods of a few months up to 3-4 years and never had an issue setting up the filter again. The white filter pads I would throw out; I find that after a couple rinsings these lose their shape to the point they don't really serve the purpose as water can get around them, so new pads is best. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "erika77andnewton91" <e.isme@...> wrote: > > so im knocking down my 75 for an indefinite amount of time. i have an eheim external canister. whats the best way to store the media, or should i just start over from new when i put it back up? > > > erika newark de usa >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52955	From: BRI	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: hair algae

Can i use an algae killer in a tank with live plants? Ive gotten an epidemic of hair algae in spite of my partial water changes. Once it starts, it's all over but the crying.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52956	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: hair algae

The direct answer to your question is- yes, and I would recommend API Algaefix- it will not hurt your live plants. Follow the dosing instructions- more is not better. But- far more important is why it is happening to begin with?   How long has the tank been set up? How many fish, what kind of fish and in what size tank? How much/often/what are you feeding? What additives, if any, do you use? Have you ever tested your water both before and after putting in tank?   Before you get annoyed with me at the seemingly stupid questions- I will say that I have been in this hobby for over 45 years and after I moved to my farm almost 6 years ago- I never thought to test my brand new well's water for Nitrates/ Phosphates! DUH. Do I feel stupid! I have now finally figured out why I have Phosphates in my tanks when I am so very stringent ( read anal here ) and careful ( read paranoid here ). I had assumed ( and ya know what they say about that word ) since I had drilled extra deep and directly into the aquaduct that I no longer had to worry about such things. Sigh...back to RO/DI for me- and I gave away all of the equipment for that, that I have accumulated for a lifetime-oops. Please get back to us with the answers to above questions, and we can help you nail down how to avoid this issue in future.   Hope that helps you- Chris ________________________________ From: BRI <brigittecherubini@...> Can i use an algae killer in a tank with live plants? Ive gotten an epidemic of hair algae in spite of my partial water changes. Once it starts, it's all over but the crying. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52957	From: KristyLP	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Which Canister Filter???

Hi there... My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter. Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... those things really scare me. So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. Thanks so much, Kristy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52958	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

I love the XP canisters I have had several for several years and never a problem! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KristyLP Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? Hi there... My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter. Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... those things really scare me. So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. Thanks so much, Kristy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52959	From: jshphoto@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

I have a Rena XP1 hooked up to the UGF in my 75 and a powerhead on the other UGF and works great. I've had Marineland Magnum 350 but really dislike the flimsy metal clips. Just my $.02. Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry� -----Original Message----- From: "KristyLP" <kristylp@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:50:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? Hi there... My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter. Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... those things really scare me. So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. Thanks so much, Kristy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52960	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi, thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Hi Kristy, Welcome to the group. I agree with you about the bewildering amount of info to take in, especially when it is about something you know very little about. I have had great success with the Eheim 2026 for looking after my Goldfish. Originally they used to be in a 40 gallon long & I had 2 of these filters running the tank. Now I have upgraded to 100 gallons I use a big sump [wet/dry] as my main filter but I still have kept one of my Eheims for running the UV sub-system & after over 5 years it is still going strong & ridiculously easy to clean! You just remove the hose attachment & it automatically closes the valves in the hoses so no spillage. The top is fixed by 4 corner clips & once released you just lift out the polyester pads & the 2 media baskets below. You can use a variety of media, as a personal preference I have dispensed with the manufacturer's supplied ceramic balls & hoops several years ago & substituted simple nylon pot scrubbers in both media baskets. The blue sponge sheet that fits between the 2 baskets & Eheim recommend replacing every 6 moths is still going strong & looks virtually indestructible. The only thing I replace at my 6-8 week cleaning sessions is the white polyester floss pads at the top which act as water polishers. Here's a tip-if you can find this material at a local store or market stall then buy it in bulk & cut out your own pads. It is the same material that is used for stuffing soft toys & pillows, just make sure that it is pure polyester & does not contain any fire retardants which may be toxic. Please don't apologise for asking anything on here-we all started out knowing nothing& the only way to learn is to ask questions, that's what we are here for! The canister hoses are easily cleaned with a hose brush. I don't know about any specific requirements for your type of fish but how about instead of replacing your current filter you keep it & add the new canister? I know with Goldfish that you cannot over filter them so I would imagine the same is true of many other types of fish. At the very least I would suggest keeping both filters running for a couple of weeks to seed the new canister from the good bacteria in your old bio wheel. Oh yes-my filter is almost silent. John*<o)))< * On 31 January 2012 00:41, <jshphoto@...> wrote: > I have a Rena XP1 hooked up to the UGF in my 75 and a powerhead on the > other UGF and works great. I've had Marineland Magnum 350 but really > dislike the flimsy metal clips. > > Just my $.02. > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > -----Original Message----- > From: "KristyLP" <kristylp@...> > Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:50:36 > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? > > Hi there... > > My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, > and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums > for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins > and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived > long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. > > My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently > moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon > aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In > the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister > filter. > > Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for > WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not > that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but > everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews > that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like > the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... > those things really scare me. > > So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so > sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, > but I would really appreciate any input you can give. > > Thanks so much, > > Kristy > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52962	From: Bill	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Ditto on the Mag 350.. flimsy clips.. same with the older Fluvals.. (Wonder why it was such a particularly popular replacement part online?)  My Rena is solid as is an older Eheim although I'm not enamored with the close mechanics on that one either.   Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: "jshphoto@..." <jshphoto@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? I have a Rena XP1 hooked up to the UGF in my 75 and a powerhead on the other UGF and works great. I've had Marineland Magnum 350 but really dislike the flimsy metal clips. Just my $.02. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "KristyLP" <kristylp@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:50:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? Hi there... My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today.  I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13.  Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff".  However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium.  I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space.  In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter.  Now, here's where I really need the help!!  I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!!  It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite.  And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean...  those things really scare me. So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters.  I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. Thanks so much, Kristy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52963	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Nora, How many fish do you have in your 10 gallon, what type of filter & how often & how much water do you change? If you are not too overstocked then changing more water more often will dilute any toxins more effectively. Not sure what to suggest for your hospital tank as I know very little about tropical fish so hopefully one of the experts can jump in here. For Goldfish I would set up 2 small hospital tanks side by side & use the 'Tub-To-Tub' method. This is transferring the fish from one tank to the other every 24 hours. There should be nothing in them except a good airstone as you want the most sterile environment possible & by changing 100% of hte water daily you are constantlyu moving the fish into clean water & away from any infection. In this controlled environment you can dose medication & treatments more accurately. You don't need to cycle hospital tanks as they are temporary. John*<o)))< * On 31 January 2012 01:08, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But > I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do > regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the > toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank > can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad > since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add > occasionally bacteria. > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them > directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have > all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the > beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and > I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks > and finally died (with swimming troubles). > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled > yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt > in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and > maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly > eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too > long and it does not get better. > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been > irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, > right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish > do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about > cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, > especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will > probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites > down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here > is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take > back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a > month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the > ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And > you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the > pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few > days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it > has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could > that be parasites? > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal > parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52964	From: pam andress	Date: 1/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

I have 4 Fluvals and LOVE them. I have never had any problems with them. I would love to get a bigger one for my 72 gal bow front. Right now I'm using the 2 that came off of my 29 gal tanks. If I want to set those tanks up again, I will have to go with a HOB filter and I hate those. I just don't have the $ to buy another filter. :( Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: williemcd@... Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:50:28 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? Ditto on the Mag 350.. flimsy clips.. same with the older Fluvals.. (Wonder why it was such a particularly popular replacement part online?) My Rena is solid as is an older Eheim although I'm not enamored with the close mechanics on that one either. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: "jshphoto@..." <jshphoto@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? I have a Rena XP1 hooked up to the UGF in my 75 and a powerhead on the other UGF and works great. I've had Marineland Magnum 350 but really dislike the flimsy metal clips. Just my $.02. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: "KristyLP" <kristylp@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:50:36 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Canister Filter??? Hi there... My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter. Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... those things really scare me. So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. Thanks so much, Kristy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52965	From: haecklers	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52966	From: Brigitte Cherubini	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: hair algae

Neither am I new to the hobby. Been doing it since the 60s. LOL!  Thanks for your reply!   ~Brigitte~ Mississippi Gulf Coast [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52967	From: cobra427lady	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Hi, Kristy: For what it is worth I love, love, love my Eheims! They are quiet, dependable and easy to clean. I run them on my 115G and 40G, both heavily planted and stocked. Have an Eheim 2026 Pro II on the 115 and a Eheim Classic 2215 on the 40. Also have an Eheim Ecco which I use on my quarantine tank. I also use a Aquaclear 110 HOB on the 115 to supplement the filtration. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "KristyLP" <kristylp@...> wrote: > > Hi there... > > My name is Kristy, and I just joined the group today. I am 40 years old, and have had aquariums since I was 13. Even though I have had aquariums for over half my life, I actually know very little when it comes to the ins and outs of the "technical stuff". However, my fish have always lived long, happy lives with what little effort I have put into them. > > My biggest reason for entering this group is because we are currently moving into our new home, and I am upgrading from a 55 to a 75 gallon aquarium. I am doing so to give my 6-7 inch Silver Dollars more space. In the process I would also like to moved from bio wheel filters to a canister filter. > > Now, here's where I really need the help!! I have been researching for WEEKS, and I'm about ready to pull my hair out, and give up!! It's not that it doesn't look like there are some great options out there, but everytime I find one that seems really great, there will be other reviews that say just the oposite. And some of the things really scare me, like the Rena XP3 leaking, or other great brands that are difficult to clean... those things really scare me. > > So, I have come to this group, seeking advice on canister filters. I'm so sorry, as I'm sure you all have had this discussion numerous times before, but I would really appreciate any input you can give. > > Thanks so much, > > Kristy >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52968	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

It may not be as convenient as a local store but you can occasionally find sellers on aquabid selling wild caught or F1 mollies. Or many other wild caught or F1 F2 F3 livebearers. Perhaps it is time to throw some wild genes into our mollies. I went on a collecting trip to Florida a few years ago and I was trying to get mollies but had no luck. I know they are there to catch but I was just in the wrong place. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: haecklers <haecklers@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 5:12 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly? Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52969	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Thank you guys so much for the welcome and the information...  I really appreciate it.   I was torn between the Eheims, Rena, and Fluvals...   But have heard just about equal responses to the 3 of them on this list.... LOL!!!   I have read that the NON self priming ones are really hard to prime.  Also, a big issue with me is cleaning.  I am in a wheelchair, which is also a big part of why I am turning to the canister... so that I can clean it myself, and not have to nag my husband about cleaning the filter as I can't reach the filters on our two 55s.  So, ease of cleaning is a big issue for me.    I was told the Fluval XF5 was the BOMB, but... it seems a bit over kill for what I'm needing, and a bit pricey compared to the others.   Again, thank you so much for the info, and any other opinions are greatly appreciated!!   Kristy     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52970	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Nora, White stringy poop can be caused by a lot of different things, including what they are eating and if they stop eating. The color of the poop can change quickly according to their diet and doesn't not mean they have internal parasites. There are steps to properly diagnosing a problem and that symptom alone doesn't give a clear indication of any problem at all. I have been following your posts since you first got started with this tank. The biggest problems I can see are 1. lack of proper quarantine of new fish, 2. Over stocking the tank from the very beginning, 3. Dosing medications before getting the proper advice, and 4. Too many drastic changes taking place for new fish that are already stressed from the other problems mentioned. All of these things are situations that members here have tried their best to help warn you about and yet you went ahead and did it all anyways. The reason I am pointing this out is because I'm wondering if the time we have all spent trying to help you has even been worth our efforts? Do you really want our help to begin with? I am sorry if this sounds harsh but it can be quite frustrating for everyone to spend the time trying to help you and then watch you go ahead and ignore our advice anyways... only to have you come back afterwards and ask for more because things went horribly wrong. I am not trying to be cruel but everyone here is a volunteer and everyone here cares about what happens with you and your fish. If white stringy poop is the only symptom there is no reason to be dumping any medications into that tank at all... unless you surely want to kill the fish. Adding medications on a whim just to be doing something is not going to help your fish. Medications can be quite toxic, especially if you are adding something that your particular species of fish can't handle. Also, not all medications can mix with each other and not all can be safely mixed into a tank with heavy salt content. Fish have very delicate systems that are easily damaged. Just as much as improper medications can cause harm so can stress and massive amounts of change to their environment, especially over a short period of time and even more so with new fish that have already suffered the stress of being moved from wholesaler/breeder to store to home tank environment. Poor water quality such as you have been experiencing can also cause stress enough to make fish sick, but that is usually something that is most easily fixed by fixing the problems in the water chemistry. You have not indicated whether or not the ich has disappeared? You haven't listed any other new symptoms besides white poop? You mentioned adding 6 tablespoons of salt to the new hospital tank, but have not said what size it is? If that is a 10 gallon or smaller tank, that is a LOT of salt... especially if they are coming from a tank with almost no salt in it. That kind of drastic change could be harmful enough to kill them. Adding medications to that even worse. Treating them with an antibiotic when there is no sign of a bacterial infection.. again, only going to cause more harm. Mixing antibiotics alongside of a medication to treat parasites in that tank... if they survive that I would be very surprised. Most of the mistakes you have made thus far are easily avoided if you were to slow down and listen to the advice offered from the members here in the group. Ray has tried a number of times to help you, as have I. We can't help you if you don't listen to our advice. The best thing you can do right now for your fish is to let them be, work on getting the water parameters in check (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates no higher than 20) and provide us with a list of all of their symptoms and as much details about the tank as it is now as you possibly can, even if it seems trivial to you. Once we have a clear picture of exactly what is happening in your tank we can suggest any medications you might need for existing problems and talk you through the steps on how to use it safely. I, personally, would very much like to help you but I am feeling at a loss right now... not sure that anything I'm going to suggest is going to be taken seriously or acted upon. Your fish don't have to continue to die or struggle... but that choice is entirely up to you. The most important key to success in fish keeping is patience. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52971	From: kbgwp	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Nora, I am far from an expert but wanted to encourage you to not get discouraged or quit asking questions. I have been following this topic since you started it and I have had the same problems. I think slowing down might be a good idea. Dawns suggestions sound good to me. My problems turned out to be mostly water quality related (due mostly to impatience) although I did fail to quarantine a couple fish and ended up infecting my fish with Ich. A 10 gallon tank is pretty small and overstocking the tank is very easy to do especially when just starting out. Make sure your tank is actually cycled and not just testing ok due to the water changes. Have patience and don't give up. Once you get a stable aquarium, you will probably spend countless hours just watching your fish. ...Brian in PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52972	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Hello again Kristy, Just to tell you about the self-priming mechanism on the Eheim 2026 Pro II. While it is an excellent filter in all respects the actual plunger takes a lot of force to depress fully & you also need to do it smartly to expel all of the trapped air in the inlet tube & hose. You need to get this our or you have some irritating fizzing noises! I actually use my foot [carefully] to depress this & I also need to tip the canister & re-plunge several times as there always seems to be a little bit more air inside the canister. John*<o)))<* On 31 January 2012 21:11, Kristy Ratliff <kristylp@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank you guys so much for the welcome and the information... I really > appreciate it. > > I was torn between the Eheims, Rena, and Fluvals... But have heard just > about equal responses to the 3 of them on this list.... LOL!!! > > I have read that the NON self priming ones are really hard to prime. > Also, a big issue with me is cleaning. I am in a wheelchair, which is also > a big part of why I am turning to the canister... so that I can clean it > myself, and not have to nag my husband about cleaning the filter as I can't > reach the filters on our two 55s. So, ease of cleaning is a big issue for > me. > > I was told the Fluval XF5 was the BOMB, but... it seems a bit over kill > for what I'm needing, and a bit pricey compared to the others. > > Again, thank you so much for the info, and any other opinions are greatly > appreciated!! > > > Kristy > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52973	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Dawn, I am sorry you feel that I do not take the advice here seriously. Quite the opposite is the case and it was a lot of times very helpful for me in determining how to proceed. But this is not the only source of advice I get and often in getting advice opinions and not facts are involved. So knowing my complete situation at the end I have to try to take everything into account and make the best decision I can. I am not sure if you read my messages as detailed as you mention. I used only one medication until now: Maracide that seems on the more harmless side and was probably quite necessary in my case (all fish from different tanks and stores put together without quarantine). If I stay in front of the situation of letting a fish die because of doing nothing, I rather take action and try my best. Even if I do not have the experience to get everything right immediately. Thanks to the input I got we now have a quarantine tank that is 10G. According to the knowledge I acquired the salt level is just fine for my purpose: it treats two sick mollies who are able to live even in marine saltwater and is rather beneficial to them. Depending on the next days and further research I might even increase it a little bit. Additionally it helps against possible ick and velvet infection. As you mentioned the symptoms on my mollies are not completely clear. That is why I choose the heat and salt treatment for the moment since mollies should thrive with it anyway. The additional medications I mentioned I have not yet used BECAUSE I was waiting for more input here. At the moment the two mollies are both doing better in the hospital tank: they are swimming more actively again and started to have a lot of interest in food (including eating it) So I am sorry if you are frustrated with my actions, but in my situation (including my family situation with having little kids) I do the best I can. After starting having fish I talked to a lot of people and from what I heard and saw until know it was just scary to see the lack of knowledge and willingness to improve fish situations in many households. So sorry again that I am not willing to accept all the blame you are imposing on me. I am willing to improve and learn but have to make decisions at some point/time that might not agree with your ideas and might not be perfect. But I also learned already that fish keepers are quite opinionated about most things and realized that I, too started to be less tolerant with actions in fish keeping I judge wrong... In any case I hope to continue to get advice and can only confirm again, that I value all opinions and try to get the most out of them. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Nora, > White stringy poop can be caused by a lot of different things, including what they are eating and if they stop eating. The color of the poop can change quickly according to their diet and doesn't not mean they have internal parasites. There are steps to properly diagnosing a problem and that symptom alone doesn't give a clear indication of any problem at all. > > I have been following your posts since you first got started with this tank. The biggest problems I can see are 1. lack of proper quarantine of new fish, 2. Over stocking the tank from the very beginning, 3. Dosing medications before getting the proper advice, and 4. Too many drastic changes taking place for new fish that are already stressed from the other problems mentioned. All of these things are situations that members here have tried their best to help warn you about and yet you went ahead and did it all anyways. > > The reason I am pointing this out is because I'm wondering if the time we have all spent trying to help you has even been worth our efforts? Do you really want our help to begin with? > > I am sorry if this sounds harsh but it can be quite frustrating for everyone to spend the time trying to help you and then watch you go ahead and ignore our advice anyways... only to have you come back afterwards and ask for more because things went horribly wrong. I am not trying to be cruel but everyone here is a volunteer and everyone here cares about what happens with you and your fish. > > If white stringy poop is the only symptom there is no reason to be dumping any medications into that tank at all... unless you surely want to kill the fish. Adding medications on a whim just to be doing something is not going to help your fish. Medications can be quite toxic, especially if you are adding something that your particular species of fish can't handle. Also, not all medications can mix with each other and not all can be safely mixed into a tank with heavy salt content. Fish have very delicate systems that are easily damaged. Just as much as improper medications can cause harm so can stress and massive amounts of change to their environment, especially over a short period of time and even more so with new fish that have already suffered the stress of being moved from wholesaler/breeder to store to home tank environment. Poor water quality such as you have been experiencing can also cause stress enough to make fish sick, but that is usually something that is most easily fixed by fixing the problems in the water chemistry. > > You have not indicated whether or not the ich has disappeared? You haven't listed any other new symptoms besides white poop? You mentioned adding 6 tablespoons of salt to the new hospital tank, but have not said what size it is? If that is a 10 gallon or smaller tank, that is a LOT of salt... especially if they are coming from a tank with almost no salt in it. That kind of drastic change could be harmful enough to kill them. Adding medications to that even worse. Treating them with an antibiotic when there is no sign of a bacterial infection.. again, only going to cause more harm. Mixing antibiotics alongside of a medication to treat parasites in that tank... if they survive that I would be very surprised. > > Most of the mistakes you have made thus far are easily avoided if you were to slow down and listen to the advice offered from the members here in the group. Ray has tried a number of times to help you, as have I. We can't help you if you don't listen to our advice. > > The best thing you can do right now for your fish is to let them be, work on getting the water parameters in check (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates no higher than 20) and provide us with a list of all of their symptoms and as much details about the tank as it is now as you possibly can, even if it seems trivial to you. Once we have a clear picture of exactly what is happening in your tank we can suggest any medications you might need for existing problems and talk you through the steps on how to use it safely. > > I, personally, would very much like to help you but I am feeling at a loss right now... not sure that anything I'm going to suggest is going to be taken seriously or acted upon. > Your fish don't have to continue to die or struggle... but that choice is entirely up to you. > The most important key to success in fish keeping is patience. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52974	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Brian, thanks a lot for your encouragement and your kind words! I must admit it seems sometimes very frustrating to spend a lot of time learning, figuring things out, trying to improve and still having troubles. But nevertheless the kids and I are still happy to have started this adventure and already spent a lot of time just watching the fish swim :) My older one who is seven claimed already that he always wants to have fish from now on. Somebody I talked to today found a nice word for watching fish: soothing .... Also I think my son learns immensely from accompanying me to the stores, hearing what I try to figure out etc. and he sees how we value each life. Because of the water quality: it always seems to be great each time after using the Tetra Smart bacteria. But after changing the carbon filter it is worse and I have to start again with lots of water changes and new bacteria. Right now the quality is great again (0 toxins) and I wonder what will happen with the next carbon filter change (hopefully more than a week away). I continue to do daily testing and will do partial water changes as required (I try to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25 ppm). The amount of fish we have: 6 little Tetras (glowlight and neon), 3 white clouds (also little), 2 guppies, 2 platies In the hospital tank there are 2 mollies since 2 days. So if I go with the rule of 1 inch fish per gallon we definitely have much. On the other hand I heard the Tetras hardly contribute to affect the water quality so I was hoping with regular water changes we should be ok. Additionally we have live plants in the tank that started growing really well. Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kbgwp" <kbgwp@...> wrote: > > Nora, > I am far from an expert but wanted to encourage you to not get discouraged or quit asking questions. I have been following this topic since you started it and I have had the same problems. I think slowing down might be a good idea. Dawns suggestions sound good to me. My problems turned out to be mostly water quality related (due mostly to impatience) although I did fail to quarantine a couple fish and ended up infecting my fish with Ich. A 10 gallon tank is pretty small and overstocking the tank is very easy to do especially when just starting out. Make sure your tank is actually cycled and not just testing ok due to the water changes. Have patience and don't give up. Once you get a stable aquarium, you will probably spend countless hours just watching your fish. > ...Brian in PA >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52975	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 1/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Nora- Just an FYI- Tetras produce as much waste for thier size as any other fish does. You are over-stocking the tank. Especially while it cycles. Only buy 1 fish at a time in future for that size of tank- but don't buy ANY more for the one you have now! Hang in there, go slow ( you can teach your kids patience that way too ) and try to take the good advice of the folks trying to help you, OK? Chris ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> So if I go with the rule of 1 inch fish per gallon we definitely have much. On the other hand I heard the Tetras hardly contribute to affect the water quality so I was hoping with regular water changes we should be ok. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52976	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: 2 mollies in hospital tank, info

Hi again, there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. To summarize: Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. My questions: I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. Thanks for ideas! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52977	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi, thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52978	From: haecklers	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

After hearing how many fish you have, I think probably the problems in the mollies were mainly from ammonia, which should be kept to 0, any amount is toxic. When you get new fish, if you are able to keep them in very clean water they can often overcome whatever infections they are carrying from the store and become healthy, but if the water contains toxins like ammonia then they cannot fight anything off and quickly succumb, plus spread illness and parasites to the other fish. It's good you got the second tank, mollies grow to 2-3 inches so they would have quickly outgrown the other tank, making it too overcrowded to keep all of the fish healthy (or alive). Experienced fish keepers can keep tanks much more heavily stocked than 1 fish-inch per gallon (I had 30 1-inch betta fry in a 10 gallon) but it's a lot of work with large daily water changes and constant vacuuming. The less work you want it to be the lower your stocking rate should be. Unless your fish are very small babies, I'd suggest you already up the water changes to 2 gallons every 3-4 days, making sure to age the water for 24 hours first each time (a dedicated 2-gallon bucket will be helpful here!) If you get any reading of ammonia, do more water changes until it goes back down to 0 again. You don't really need to change out the carbon all that often - every 3 weeks is sufficient, but once the tank has cycled it shouldn't need the carbon any more unless you add medication and need to remove it (carbon removes medications from the water). Having carbon is bad for your aquatic plants, too. If you are changing out all of the filter media then your tank cannot cycle because it's the filter media that need to get the beneficial bacteria established. One more issue that can happen with kids and tanks is the kids sometimes decide to feed the fish when you're not around or to show their friends and accidentally over-feed them. Well, I even caught one of my daughter's friends HOLDING one of our guppies, in her hands, out of the water. You never know what kids (or their friends) will do sometimes. If you ever notice the water smelling "off" or the fish suddenly going sick, do a 90% water change, vacuum, and squeeze out the filter into the water you removed in the water change (then put it back it for the beneficial bacteria still there to continue doing their job) I set up a nano tank (5 gallons) for my kids that they loved for a long time. It had red cherry shrimp, kuhli loaches, and whatever came off of some mossy rocks they found in a stream - mostly planaria but also some damselfly nymphs and other interesting critters. I found the key to enjoying a small tank is to put in small creatures, so it creates an illusion of a huge world. We used a lot of plants, too - java moss and vallisneria mostly. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52979	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi again, Thanks for your concerns. I am very sure my kids put nothing in the tank without me. I dose the feedings in their hands and only that goes in. The filter: I never exchanged the bio filter and I have the 3rd carbon filter in after almost 2 months now. How about carbon in general: are there better alternatives? We have a power filter that hangs on the outside that was included with the aquariums (we added an air stone in addition) I read the carbon filter might take out minerals for the fish and can produce little particles that float in the water? Would you or somebody know what is usually a common filter choice besides carbon? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > After hearing how many fish you have, I think probably the problems in the mollies were mainly from ammonia, which should be kept to 0, any amount is toxic. When you get new fish, if you are able to keep them in very clean water they can often overcome whatever infections they are carrying from the store and become healthy, but if the water contains toxins like ammonia then they cannot fight anything off and quickly succumb, plus spread illness and parasites to the other fish. > > It's good you got the second tank, mollies grow to 2-3 inches so they would have quickly outgrown the other tank, making it too overcrowded to keep all of the fish healthy (or alive). Experienced fish keepers can keep tanks much more heavily stocked than 1 fish-inch per gallon (I had 30 1-inch betta fry in a 10 gallon) but it's a lot of work with large daily water changes and constant vacuuming. The less work you want it to be the lower your stocking rate should be. Unless your fish are very small babies, I'd suggest you already up the water changes to 2 gallons every 3-4 days, making sure to age the water for 24 hours first each time (a dedicated 2-gallon bucket will be helpful here!) > > If you get any reading of ammonia, do more water changes until it goes back down to 0 again. > > You don't really need to change out the carbon all that often - every 3 weeks is sufficient, but once the tank has cycled it shouldn't need the carbon any more unless you add medication and need to remove it (carbon removes medications from the water). Having carbon is bad for your aquatic plants, too. > > If you are changing out all of the filter media then your tank cannot cycle because it's the filter media that need to get the beneficial bacteria established. > > One more issue that can happen with kids and tanks is the kids sometimes decide to feed the fish when you're not around or to show their friends and accidentally over-feed them. Well, I even caught one of my daughter's friends HOLDING one of our guppies, in her hands, out of the water. You never know what kids (or their friends) will do sometimes. If you ever notice the water smelling "off" or the fish suddenly going sick, do a 90% water change, vacuum, and squeeze out the filter into the water you removed in the water change (then put it back it for the beneficial bacteria still there to continue doing their job) > > I set up a nano tank (5 gallons) for my kids that they loved for a long time. It had red cherry shrimp, kuhli loaches, and whatever came off of some mossy rocks they found in a stream - mostly planaria but also some damselfly nymphs and other interesting critters. I found the key to enjoying a small tank is to put in small creatures, so it creates an illusion of a huge world. We used a lot of plants, too - java moss and vallisneria mostly. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52980	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

oops, should have written in the first sentence: the fish from the store are often not in best shape. I did not mean our fish... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52981	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: storing filter media

thanks gus much appreciated:-) yeah it does suck but it will be better in the long run. i had to put it up in a hurry when i first moved to my house and was never really happy with it. this way once finances are better i can really do it up;-) i was going to sell it but i think i have talked myself out of that... erika newark de usa . The type of media that stays and you do not normally have to replace like bio-balls, plugs, etc- Anything that you can properly clean well- I wouldboil gently in 1 part bleach to 10 parts water - pour off and then soakovernight in clear water. Pour off the water and then soak them overnight againin clear water. Stir well. Allow to dry completely before storing. The rest? I would toss it out. Point is not to store dirty/or wet stuff so you don't haveanearobic ( Never could spell that darn word! ) bacterias building up in storage. Bummer that you have to tear it down- even for a while. > Having done this several times, my suggestion is to rinse the solid media (ceramic disks, bio- porous rock etc. under the hot water tap, leave out to dry, then put it in the cleaned filter canister for storage. Same for the blue stiff pad (if your model has this). I have done this for periods of a few months up to 3-4 years and never had an issue setting up the filter again. The white filter pads I would throw out; I find that after a couple rinsings these lose their shape to the point they don't really serve the purpose as water can get around them, so new pads is best. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52982	From: haecklers	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

The carbon can be helpful while the tank is cycling. After that (once your nitrite and ammonia measure 0 consistently) you can just remove that part. If it leaves a gap, they sell some bio-sponges in the replacement filter media section of most pet stores for pretty cheap. Get one and cut it to size and put that in instead. It offers more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to live on and can provide some mechanical filtration as well. I have a 55g aquarium with just sponges in the filter and it is doing a very good job. Every week during a water change I squeeze just one of them to get rid of things they've caught in the water. That water is very good for watering houseplants. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > Thanks for your concerns. > I am very sure my kids put nothing in the tank without me. I dose the feedings in their hands and only that goes in. > > The filter: I never exchanged the bio filter and I have the 3rd carbon filter in after almost 2 months now. > > How about carbon in general: are there better alternatives? We have a power filter that hangs on the outside that was included with the aquariums (we added an air stone in addition) > I read the carbon filter might take out minerals for the fish and can produce little particles that float in the water? > > Would you or somebody know what is usually a common filter choice besides carbon? > > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > After hearing how many fish you have, I think probably the problems in the mollies were mainly from ammonia, which should be kept to 0, any amount is toxic. When you get new fish, if you are able to keep them in very clean water they can often overcome whatever infections they are carrying from the store and become healthy, but if the water contains toxins like ammonia then they cannot fight anything off and quickly succumb, plus spread illness and parasites to the other fish. > > > > It's good you got the second tank, mollies grow to 2-3 inches so they would have quickly outgrown the other tank, making it too overcrowded to keep all of the fish healthy (or alive). Experienced fish keepers can keep tanks much more heavily stocked than 1 fish-inch per gallon (I had 30 1-inch betta fry in a 10 gallon) but it's a lot of work with large daily water changes and constant vacuuming. The less work you want it to be the lower your stocking rate should be. Unless your fish are very small babies, I'd suggest you already up the water changes to 2 gallons every 3-4 days, making sure to age the water for 24 hours first each time (a dedicated 2-gallon bucket will be helpful here!) > > > > If you get any reading of ammonia, do more water changes until it goes back down to 0 again. > > > > You don't really need to change out the carbon all that often - every 3 weeks is sufficient, but once the tank has cycled it shouldn't need the carbon any more unless you add medication and need to remove it (carbon removes medications from the water). Having carbon is bad for your aquatic plants, too. > > > > If you are changing out all of the filter media then your tank cannot cycle because it's the filter media that need to get the beneficial bacteria established. > > > > One more issue that can happen with kids and tanks is the kids sometimes decide to feed the fish when you're not around or to show their friends and accidentally over-feed them. Well, I even caught one of my daughter's friends HOLDING one of our guppies, in her hands, out of the water. You never know what kids (or their friends) will do sometimes. If you ever notice the water smelling "off" or the fish suddenly going sick, do a 90% water change, vacuum, and squeeze out the filter into the water you removed in the water change (then put it back it for the beneficial bacteria still there to continue doing their job) > > > > I set up a nano tank (5 gallons) for my kids that they loved for a long time. It had red cherry shrimp, kuhli loaches, and whatever came off of some mossy rocks they found in a stream - mostly planaria but also some damselfly nymphs and other interesting critters. I found the key to enjoying a small tank is to put in small creatures, so it creates an illusion of a huge world. We used a lot of plants, too - java moss and vallisneria mostly. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > > > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > > > > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > > > > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52983	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea! I will look into it... Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > The carbon can be helpful while the tank is cycling. After that (once your nitrite and ammonia measure 0 consistently) you can just remove that part. If it leaves a gap, they sell some bio-sponges in the replacement filter media section of most pet stores for pretty cheap. Get one and cut it to size and put that in instead. It offers more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to live on and can provide some mechanical filtration as well. I have a 55g aquarium with just sponges in the filter and it is doing a very good job. Every week during a water change I squeeze just one of them to get rid of things they've caught in the water. That water is very good for watering houseplants. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > Thanks for your concerns. > > I am very sure my kids put nothing in the tank without me. I dose the feedings in their hands and only that goes in. > > > > The filter: I never exchanged the bio filter and I have the 3rd carbon filter in after almost 2 months now. > > > > How about carbon in general: are there better alternatives? We have a power filter that hangs on the outside that was included with the aquariums (we added an air stone in addition) > > I read the carbon filter might take out minerals for the fish and can produce little particles that float in the water? > > > > Would you or somebody know what is usually a common filter choice besides carbon? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > After hearing how many fish you have, I think probably the problems in the mollies were mainly from ammonia, which should be kept to 0, any amount is toxic. When you get new fish, if you are able to keep them in very clean water they can often overcome whatever infections they are carrying from the store and become healthy, but if the water contains toxins like ammonia then they cannot fight anything off and quickly succumb, plus spread illness and parasites to the other fish. > > > > > > It's good you got the second tank, mollies grow to 2-3 inches so they would have quickly outgrown the other tank, making it too overcrowded to keep all of the fish healthy (or alive). Experienced fish keepers can keep tanks much more heavily stocked than 1 fish-inch per gallon (I had 30 1-inch betta fry in a 10 gallon) but it's a lot of work with large daily water changes and constant vacuuming. The less work you want it to be the lower your stocking rate should be. Unless your fish are very small babies, I'd suggest you already up the water changes to 2 gallons every 3-4 days, making sure to age the water for 24 hours first each time (a dedicated 2-gallon bucket will be helpful here!) > > > > > > If you get any reading of ammonia, do more water changes until it goes back down to 0 again. > > > > > > You don't really need to change out the carbon all that often - every 3 weeks is sufficient, but once the tank has cycled it shouldn't need the carbon any more unless you add medication and need to remove it (carbon removes medications from the water). Having carbon is bad for your aquatic plants, too. > > > > > > If you are changing out all of the filter media then your tank cannot cycle because it's the filter media that need to get the beneficial bacteria established. > > > > > > One more issue that can happen with kids and tanks is the kids sometimes decide to feed the fish when you're not around or to show their friends and accidentally over-feed them. Well, I even caught one of my daughter's friends HOLDING one of our guppies, in her hands, out of the water. You never know what kids (or their friends) will do sometimes. If you ever notice the water smelling "off" or the fish suddenly going sick, do a 90% water change, vacuum, and squeeze out the filter into the water you removed in the water change (then put it back it for the beneficial bacteria still there to continue doing their job) > > > > > > I set up a nano tank (5 gallons) for my kids that they loved for a long time. It had red cherry shrimp, kuhli loaches, and whatever came off of some mossy rocks they found in a stream - mostly planaria but also some damselfly nymphs and other interesting critters. I found the key to enjoying a small tank is to put in small creatures, so it creates an illusion of a huge world. We used a lot of plants, too - java moss and vallisneria mostly. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > > > > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > > > > > > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > > > > > > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > > > > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > > > > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52984	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Nora, There is so much information to take in when starting out with setting up a new tank & cycling is the hardest part even for seasoned hobbyists so you are doing ok but everyone you seek advice from has an opinion & they are all different so all that conflicting information will only mess you up! That is why the best advice I can give you is to only take *your* advice from one source-this forum! Advice from stores-even aquatic specialist shops is at best patchy & so is much of the info around on the internet [remember anyone can claim to be anything they like online] & especially guilty are those sites that also sell stuff so you get a biased opinion as they will always want to sell you their product-they care nothing for the well being of fish or the poor person struggling to care for them, they are just interested in profit. The folks on here have no such agenda-all they want to do is pass on their vast array of knowledge to ensure newcomers, or their fish don't fall victim to the common mistakes that are all too easy to make & we have all done it. Anyone who claims never to have made errors when starting out is either a liar or a genius! *Carbon*-my personal opinion of carbon is that it is far too widely used as a broad-spectrum filter media. In a well balanced tank you really have no need for it as it's only really useful for cleaning up water polluted by medications or other toxins. It is virtually useless for growing good bacteria that help your tank yet manufacturers will often use up to 50% of the stuff-especially on smaller filters where you really need to maximize your good bugs. It is taking up valuable space in the filter that is far better used for something like ceramic chips or inert sponges that will grow huge colonies of good bugs. You can also use regular polyester foam as the final media to really 'polish' the water & unlike the other media this needs to be replaced often but is dirt-cheap from any upholstery outlet.Even filters that require special [& often very expensive] unique refills can usually be modified to take your choice of media instead of what the manufacturer recommends. John*<o)))< * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52985	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

I live in a flat & in the Summer I grow great tomatoes, peppers & melons on the windowsills fed entirely with nitrate rich-fish water! John*<o)))<* On 1 February 2012 18:17, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > ** > > > The carbon can be helpful while the tank is cycling. After that (once your > nitrite and ammonia measure 0 consistently) you can just remove that part. > If it leaves a gap, they sell some bio-sponges in the replacement filter > media section of most pet stores for pretty cheap. Get one and cut it to > size and put that in instead. It offers more surface area for the > beneficial bacteria to live on and can provide some mechanical filtration > as well. I have a 55g aquarium with just sponges in the filter and it is > doing a very good job. Every week during a water change I squeeze just one > of them to get rid of things they've caught in the water. That water is > very good for watering houseplants. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52986	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

I agree, no need for carbon. But since it is in there.some of your bacteria are growing on it and you should not take it out or change it until your bio-filter is established. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly? Hi Nora, There is so much information to take in when starting out with setting up a new tank & cycling is the hardest part even for seasoned hobbyists so you are doing ok but everyone you seek advice from has an opinion & they are all different so all that conflicting information will only mess you up! That is why the best advice I can give you is to only take *your* advice from one source-this forum! Advice from stores-even aquatic specialist shops is at best patchy & so is much of the info around on the internet [remember anyone can claim to be anything they like online] & especially guilty are those sites that also sell stuff so you get a biased opinion as they will always want to sell you their product-they care nothing for the well being of fish or the poor person struggling to care for them, they are just interested in profit. The folks on here have no such agenda-all they want to do is pass on their vast array of knowledge to ensure newcomers, or their fish don't fall victim to the common mistakes that are all too easy to make & we have all done it. Anyone who claims never to have made errors when starting out is either a liar or a genius! *Carbon*-my personal opinion of carbon is that it is far too widely used as a broad-spectrum filter media. In a well balanced tank you really have no need for it as it's only really useful for cleaning up water polluted by medications or other toxins. It is virtually useless for growing good bacteria that help your tank yet manufacturers will often use up to 50% of the stuff-especially on smaller filters where you really need to maximize your good bugs. It is taking up valuable space in the filter that is far better used for something like ceramic chips or inert sponges that will grow huge colonies of good bugs. You can also use regular polyester foam as the final media to really 'polish' the water & unlike the other media this needs to be replaced often but is dirt-cheap from any upholstery outlet.Even filters that require special [& often very expensive] unique refills can usually be modified to take your choice of media instead of what the manufacturer recommends. John*<o)))< * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52987	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hi, our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a little? I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other dangers involved? Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like to dismiss that option. The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52988	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Velvet ?

Hi again, I think one of my mollies has probably velvet (the other one maybe too but not visible yet). I see the gold dust on it in the sunshine and the other scratched his gills on the glass today. Does anybody has experience with treating velvet? It seems it is rather deadly when visible but maybe there are other experiences? Did treatment work for somebody? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52989	From: k chen	Date: 2/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Canister Filter???

Hi fellow Aquaice Life Member, Let me throw my thoughts in. Personally, I have used Eheims filter, specially the classics series and second hand ones. These things are built to last. Just need to replace the casket's large O-ring on regular basis and you will have worry free fish keeping experience. They maybe more expensive but it is well worth it. The plastic is sturdy, and tubing retain their shape and don't degrade over time. The mechanical parts are so well made that they generate very very little noise. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: kristylp@... Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:11:59 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Canister Filter??? Thank you guys so much for the welcome and the information... I really appreciate it. I was torn between the Eheims, Rena, and Fluvals... But have heard just about equal responses to the 3 of them on this list.... LOL!!! I have read that the NON self priming ones are really hard to prime. Also, a big issue with me is cleaning. I am in a wheelchair, which is also a big part of why I am turning to the canister... so that I can clean it myself, and not have to nag my husband about cleaning the filter as I can't reach the filters on our two 55s. So, ease of cleaning is a big issue for me. I was told the Fluval XF5 was the BOMB, but... it seems a bit over kill for what I'm needing, and a bit pricey compared to the others. Again, thank you so much for the info, and any other opinions are greatly appreciated!! Kristy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52990	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi again, thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I just leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it continues to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active carbon is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon properties anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure the water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the bio filter... With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining chemicals in the foam that might leak out? What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > There is so much information to take in when starting out with setting up > a new tank & cycling is the hardest part even for seasoned hobbyists so you > are doing ok but everyone you seek advice from has an opinion & they are > all different so all that conflicting information will only mess you up! > That is why the best advice I can give you is to only take *your* advice > from one source-this forum! > > Advice from stores-even aquatic specialist shops is at best patchy & so is > much of the info around on the internet [remember anyone can claim to be > anything they like online] & especially guilty are those sites that also > sell stuff so you get a biased opinion as they will always want to sell you > their product-they care nothing for the well being of fish or the poor > person struggling to care for them, they are just interested in profit. > > The folks on here have no such agenda-all they want to do is pass on their > vast array of knowledge to ensure newcomers, or their fish don't fall > victim to the common mistakes that are all too easy to make & we have all > done it. Anyone who claims never to have made errors when starting out is > either a liar or a genius! > > *Carbon*-my personal opinion of carbon is that it is far too widely used as > a broad-spectrum filter media. In a well balanced tank you really have no > need for it as it's only really useful for cleaning up water polluted by > medications or other toxins. It is virtually useless for growing good > bacteria that help your tank yet manufacturers will often use up to 50% of > the stuff-especially on smaller filters where you really need to maximize > your good bugs. It is taking up valuable space in the filter that is far > better used for something like ceramic chips or inert sponges that will > grow huge colonies of good bugs. You can also use regular polyester foam as > the final media to really 'polish' the water & unlike the other media this > needs to be replaced often but is dirt-cheap from any upholstery > outlet.Even filters that require special [& often very expensive] > unique refills > can usually be modified to take your choice of media instead of what the > manufacturer recommends. > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52991	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

That is a great idea :) We have some veggie barrels that we have to fertilize all the time. I only wish they were closer to our tanks: I do not dare going down the stairs from the second floor with buckets full of old fishwater yet ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I live in a flat & in the Summer I grow great tomatoes, peppers & melons on > the windowsills fed entirely with nitrate rich-fish water! > > John*<o)))<* > > On 1 February 2012 18:17, haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > The carbon can be helpful while the tank is cycling. After that (once your > > nitrite and ammonia measure 0 consistently) you can just remove that part. > > If it leaves a gap, they sell some bio-sponges in the replacement filter > > media section of most pet stores for pretty cheap. Get one and cut it to > > size and put that in instead. It offers more surface area for the > > beneficial bacteria to live on and can provide some mechanical filtration > > as well. I have a 55g aquarium with just sponges in the filter and it is > > doing a very good job. Every week during a water change I squeeze just one > > of them to get rid of things they've caught in the water. That water is > > very good for watering houseplants. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52992	From: haecklers	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

I'm always reading not to mess with your water pH, the fish adapt to it for the most part, except for very difficult fish like discus or rams. If it changes as it ages then there may be some dissolved gasses in it at first that off-gas into the air, so the "older" water should be the more stable of the two choices. Some people do peat filters and such, but whenever you put in tap water for a water change you're shifting the pH some then. Easier to let the fish get used to it as it is. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a little? > I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other dangers involved? > > Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like to dismiss that option. > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52993	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? ~Kai > Nora wrote: > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52994	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi Nora, Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then it really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins in the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back into the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need for the eco system to run smoothly. The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out that would be good too. Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll & the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not containing any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it disintegrates after a while. The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut to size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & may also be made of unsuitable materials. Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. John*<o)))< * On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I just > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it continues > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active carbon > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon properties > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure the > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the bio > filter... > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining chemicals in > the foam that might leak out? > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52995	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

I think fish can acclimate if the pH is close, but I would not want to keep rams in that water, LOL. Making water harder is easier than making it softer. To be effective, you would want an RO unit for softer water. Not easy or cheap. It does seem odd that the pH would increase usually it crashes after 24 hours if it moves at all. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 8:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? ~Kai > Nora wrote: > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52996	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Hi Kai and everyone, I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. But that means every time I perform a partial water change with fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the gases are gone again. So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? Any additional info very welcome :) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > ~Kai > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52997	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/2/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi again, thanks for the additional explanations! I use an Aqua-Tech Powerfilter for 5-15G (our tank has 10G) and it hangs on the backside. Only the suction tube goes into the water and the filtered water splashes back into the tank as a little waterfall. The bio filter sits back to back with the carbon filter in the part outside (the carbon filter pad is at least one third larger than the bio). My water values are so perfect at the moment that I would hate to take the carbon filter out anytime soon if I do not have to. It seems our good bacteria really like it in there ... But I probably could soak a new bio sponge with new bacteria and see what happens. How are generally the filtration properties from a bio sponge in comparison to a carbon filter? Does the bio sponge needs to be bigger for the same result? Or how thick should it be approx.? Thanks a lot for the info! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the > filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then it > really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your > electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins in > the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out > regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back into > the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water > then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have > the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need for > the eco system to run smoothly. > > The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as > inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of > your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also > if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out > that would be good too. > > Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was > meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll & > the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for > stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not containing > any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can > use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal > clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it disintegrates > after a while. > > The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they > come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut to > size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they > are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery > sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & may > also be made of unsuitable materials. > > Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I just > > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it continues > > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active carbon > > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon properties > > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure the > > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the bio > > filter... > > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining chemicals in > > the foam that might leak out? > > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52998	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Driftwood can have a slight impact, but it cannot make enough of a difference to matter. If you really need to change pH to make it lower, mixing your water with RO (not a chemical) is effective. RO is just water with the minerals, etc. removed. You purchase and use an RO unit to do this. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 12:24 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Hi Kai and everyone, I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. But that means every time I perform a partial water change with fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the gases are gone again. So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? Any additional info very welcome :) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > ~Kai > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 52999	From: Bill	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?   Hi Kai and everyone, I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. But that means every time I perform a partial water change with fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the gases are gone again. So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? Any additional info very welcome :) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > ~Kai > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53000	From: Patrick	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. > If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, > something is effecting it. As Nora already pointed out, the main issue with tap water changing pH when sitting for a while is due to tap water being delivered under pressure and having various gases dissolved in it. In particular CO2 creates carbonic acid which lowers pH. When sitting at atmospheric pressure, CO2 can gas out, carbonic acid levels drop, and the pH rises. Also in some locations, the opposite happens because some water supplies add buffers to the water to purposely raise the pH for delivery. This helps to prolong life of pipes, values, pumps, and other delivery infrastructure and in particular as a way to reduce dissolving into the water metals that may be harmful such as in lead pipes. In those cases the water is delivered with a higher pH due to buffers but after getting in the tank the pH can quickly start to drop as those pH buffers are used up. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53001	From: Bill	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Great post Patrick! ________________________________ From: Patrick <ptimlin@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph   --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. > If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, > something is effecting it. As Nora already pointed out, the main issue with tap water changing pH when sitting for a while is due to tap water being delivered under pressure and having various gases dissolved in it. In particular CO2 creates carbonic acid which lowers pH. When sitting at atmospheric pressure, CO2 can gas out, carbonic acid levels drop, and the pH rises. Also in some locations, the opposite happens because some water supplies add buffers to the water to purposely raise the pH for delivery. This helps to prolong life of pipes, values, pumps, and other delivery infrastructure and in particular as a way to reduce dissolving into the water metals that may be harmful such as in lead pipes. In those cases the water is delivered with a higher pH due to buffers but after getting in the tank the pH can quickly start to drop as those pH buffers are used up. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53002	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

I agree-very interesting thanks! John*<o)))< * On 3 February 2012 16:40, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > ** > > > Great post Patrick! > > ________________________________ > From: Patrick <ptimlin@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph > > > � > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. > > If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, > > something is effecting it. > > As Nora already pointed out, the main issue with tap water changing pH > when sitting for a while is due to tap water being delivered under pressure > and having various gases dissolved in it. In particular CO2 creates > carbonic acid which lowers pH. When sitting at atmospheric pressure, CO2 > can gas out, carbonic acid levels drop, and the pH rises. > > Also in some locations, the opposite happens because some water supplies > add buffers to the water to purposely raise the pH for delivery. This helps > to prolong life of pipes, values, pumps, and other delivery infrastructure > and in particular as a way to reduce dissolving into the water metals that > may be harmful such as in lead pipes. In those cases the water is delivered > with a higher pH due to buffers but after getting in the tank the pH can > quickly start to drop as those pH buffers are used up. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53003	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/3/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi Nora, I have had a quick Google of this filter & am I right in thinking that it has separate carbon & sponge sections? Am I also right in thinking that they are both identical shapes? If so then dispense with the carbon unit & use a sponge unit in place of the carbon. Let me know if this is not possible. In any situation & using identical units a regular sponge will always out perform carbon for filtration simply because it is able to hold far more good bugs. John*<o)))< * On 3 February 2012 05:36, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > thanks for the additional explanations! > I use an Aqua-Tech Powerfilter for 5-15G (our tank has 10G) and it hangs > on the backside. Only the suction tube goes into the water and the filtered > water splashes back into the tank as a little waterfall. The bio filter > sits back to back with the carbon filter in the part outside (the carbon > filter pad is at least one third larger than the bio). My water values are > so perfect at the moment that I would hate to take the carbon filter out > anytime soon if I do not have to. It seems our good bacteria really like it > in there ... > But I probably could soak a new bio sponge with new bacteria and see what > happens. > > How are generally the filtration properties from a bio sponge in > comparison to a carbon filter? Does the bio sponge needs to be bigger for > the same result? > Or how thick should it be approx.? > > Thanks a lot for the info! > > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the > > > filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then > it > > really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your > > electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins > in > > the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out > > regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back > into > > the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water > > then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have > > the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need > for > > the eco system to run smoothly. > > > > The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as > > inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of > > your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also > > if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out > > that would be good too. > > > > Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was > > meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll > & > > the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for > > stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not > containing > > any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can > > use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal > > clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it > disintegrates > > after a while. > > > > The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they > > come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut > to > > size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they > > are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery > > sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & > may > > also be made of unsuitable materials. > > > > Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I > just > > > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it > continues > > > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active > carbon > > > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon > properties > > > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure > the > > > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the > bio > > > filter... > > > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining > chemicals in > > > the foam that might leak out? > > > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53004	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi John, thanks for the tips! The carbon and bio filter are sitting in the same compartment in two different slots. The water goes through the carbon and then directly through the bio (they are each mounted on a plastic grid that goes in and out with the filter, back to back. But the slot for the bio is narrower so it has a smaller size. Also the bio filter material does not look like it has much surface. I think a sponge will definitely will improve the living space for the good bacteria! To avoid the flaring up of toxins when I remove the carbon I will try to squeeze some sponge in before and hope it gets soaked with bacteria ... Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I have had a quick Google of this filter & am I right in thinking that it > has separate carbon & sponge sections? Am I also right in thinking that > they are both identical shapes? If so then dispense with the carbon unit & > use a sponge unit in place of the carbon. Let me know if this is not > possible. > > In any situation & using identical units a regular sponge will always out > perform carbon for filtration simply because it is able to hold far more > good bugs. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 3 February 2012 05:36, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > thanks for the additional explanations! > > I use an Aqua-Tech Powerfilter for 5-15G (our tank has 10G) and it hangs > > on the backside. Only the suction tube goes into the water and the filtered > > water splashes back into the tank as a little waterfall. The bio filter > > sits back to back with the carbon filter in the part outside (the carbon > > filter pad is at least one third larger than the bio). My water values are > > so perfect at the moment that I would hate to take the carbon filter out > > anytime soon if I do not have to. It seems our good bacteria really like it > > in there ... > > But I probably could soak a new bio sponge with new bacteria and see what > > happens. > > > > How are generally the filtration properties from a bio sponge in > > comparison to a carbon filter? Does the bio sponge needs to be bigger for > > the same result? > > Or how thick should it be approx.? > > > > Thanks a lot for the info! > > > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the > > > > > filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then > > it > > > really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your > > > electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins > > in > > > the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out > > > regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back > > into > > > the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water > > > then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have > > > the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need > > for > > > the eco system to run smoothly. > > > > > > The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as > > > inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of > > > your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also > > > if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out > > > that would be good too. > > > > > > Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was > > > meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll > > & > > > the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for > > > stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not > > containing > > > any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can > > > use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal > > > clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it > > disintegrates > > > after a while. > > > > > > The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they > > > come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut > > to > > > size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they > > > are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery > > > sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & > > may > > > also be made of unsuitable materials. > > > > > > Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > * > > > On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I > > just > > > > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it > > continues > > > > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active > > carbon > > > > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon > > properties > > > > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure > > the > > > > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the > > bio > > > > filter... > > > > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining > > chemicals in > > > > the foam that might leak out? > > > > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53005	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Very true. Does anyone know if in the first case, CO2 will gas out if the water is vigorously agitated? Chlorine will dissipate out like this (but not chloramine of course), but what about CO2? I can't try this myself since my situation is the second scenario, the buffers are added to raise pH which is naturally very low. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. > > If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, > > something is effecting it. > > As Nora already pointed out, the main issue with tap water changing pH when sitting for a while is due to tap water being delivered under pressure and having various gases dissolved in it. In particular CO2 creates carbonic acid which lowers pH. When sitting at atmospheric pressure, CO2 can gas out, carbonic acid levels drop, and the pH rises. > > Also in some locations, the opposite happens because some water supplies add buffers to the water to purposely raise the pH for delivery. This helps to prolong life of pipes, values, pumps, and other delivery infrastructure and in particular as a way to reduce dissolving into the water metals that may be harmful such as in lead pipes. In those cases the water is delivered with a higher pH due to buffers but after getting in the tank the pH can quickly start to drop as those pH buffers are used up. > > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53006	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

The entire point of water agitation is gas/air exchange. The answer is yes.   Chris ________________________________ From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> Very true. Does anyone know if in the first case, CO2 will gas out if the water is vigorously agitated?  Chlorine will dissipate out like this (but not chloramine of course), but what about CO2?  I can't try this myself since my situation is the second scenario, the buffers are added to raise pH which is naturally very low. Byron. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53007	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va.  > > > ________________________________ > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? > > >   > Hi Kai and everyone, > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the gases are gone again. > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > Any additional info very welcome :) > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53008	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Yes agitating the water will outgas CO2 faster than just letting it sit. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:45 AM, amphibian_ca wrote: > > Very true. > > Does anyone know if in the first case, CO2 will gas out if the water > is vigorously agitated? Chlorine will dissipate out like this (but not > chloramine of course), but what about CO2? I can't try this myself > since my situation is the second scenario, the buffers are added to > raise pH which is naturally very low. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. > > > If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, > > > something is effecting it. > > > > As Nora already pointed out, the main issue with tap water changing > pH when sitting for a while is due to tap water being delivered under > pressure and having various gases dissolved in it. In particular CO2 > creates carbonic acid which lowers pH. When sitting at atmospheric > pressure, CO2 can gas out, carbonic acid levels drop, and the pH rises. > > > > Also in some locations, the opposite happens because some water > supplies add buffers to the water to purposely raise the pH for > delivery. This helps to prolong life of pipes, values, pumps, and > other delivery infrastructure and in particular as a way to reduce > dissolving into the water metals that may be harmful such as in lead > pipes. In those cases the water is delivered with a higher pH due to > buffers but after getting in the tank the pH can quickly start to drop > as those pH buffers are used up. > > > > Patrick > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53009	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53010	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)

Hi everyone, I wrote about 3 months ago about housing my koi fish (Elle) inside for the winter since her outside pond wouldn't be adequate for winter housing. I really appreciate the advice and help everyone gave about getting her water levels adjusted, and just info in general. I thought I'd provide an update so you guys can know how Elle is fairing. Her water levels have remained at zero for ammonia and nitrite and her nitrate levels stay at 10-20 ppm. The water temperature stays constantly at 72 degrees, and I have no way of moving her aquarium to a 'cooler' room of the house. She seems to be content and not stressed. I do (2) 25 percent water changes each week. This has helped the water levels stay healthy. In addition, I also added two small koi for Elle to have company - Spooks and Ginger. I didn't want to get anymore than that for fear of overstocking. Since the addition of the two new fish though, the water levels, as I've said, are staying well within the acceptable parameters. Elle loves the company! Now that Spring is almost among us (or here for some of us, although not officially...it feels like its here in South Louisiana now though..everyone is planting gardens already!), the next step is to prepare a suitable pond for Elle and company. My plans, as of this time, are to house Elle and company TEMPORARILY in the 140 gallon pond come next month. I will need advice on how to transition them back to outside- what to do about cycling it to prep them for this, etc. I don't plan to leave them in there for very long. Could I use the same test kit once they are in the pond? I'd also like advice on where I can get a pond liner, and pump/filter for the bigger pond I want to get done for them this spring. I'm hoping to do it as inexpensively as possible (I'd like to set my budget at $1,000 for this project if at all possible...and this is without me having doing any estimating yet..it will likely be over some) yet built the best way possible, using quality products. What kind of pond liner and pump would one recommend? And what size pond is recommended for 3 koi fish? I know bigger is usually better or the most expensive one you can afford (at least in the case of bird cages! I have parrots). I was thinking about a pond 3 feet deep ( with our somewhat mild winters, I thought this depth would suffice..I know its probably the minimum..I don't want something very deep though) and 3400 gallons. What dimensions would the pond have to be to get this amountT? And how many fish would I be able to keep in this size pond? I'd like a few more to have a small school of fish. I have a spot pretty much picked out..our backyard is small and has a huge deck, so I was thining of putting it in our side yard, near the deck. Next to our fence is a low lying area...would a few feet away from that be okay to put a pond? Could we add more dirt to build it up some before digging the pond? My dad has an excavator and so digging the pond should not be too labor intense. I just want to make sure we go about it the right way to begin with, thus saving major problems later on? When it is set up, would I add water from their smaller pond in there as well? And I have read that its recommended to put a bottom drain in the pond? Should the location of the pond be in a somewhat shaded area? This is a problem if so. Most of our property gets part to full sun....The front of our home (facing south) gets shade in the middle of the day but we want the pond to be somewhwere where we can enjoy it more..we rarely sit on our front porch. The back deck gets a lot of usage so that is why I wanted to see about situating it near the deck, if possible. Our backyard is small and basically made up of all deck minus a small strip of grass just big enough for the lawn mowever to pass between the deck and wooden fence. Sorry for all the jumbled up thoughts and questions. This is so very new to me and I have a lot to learn about ponds- well, doing them correctly! Oh and while they are in the smaller pond, I do plan to put netting over the top to protect them from predators. I Know this was a concern when I mentioned my preformed pond was not very deep. As I've said, their staying in the smaller pond is a very temporarily thing while I get the finances together to get the pond dug (I have a beautiful stainless steel bird cage I'm going to sell to help fund the project, to cut down on out of pocket expense) and get the pond completed. This will take, I hope, no longer than two months. I want to get them in the bigger pond before the end of Spring. I DEEPLY appreciate any and all responses and will try to reply back in a timely manner. Desire' in Southwest Louisiana , where Spring is making its debut already! Fish momma to the kois- Elle, Spooks and Ginger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53011	From: Bill	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them.  You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours.  He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves.  As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH.  You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods.  Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53012	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)

Good to hear Elle is doing great and has company. I've never built my own pond, but I did some googling and found a site about building your own Koi pond and guidelines to follow. Hopefully it will help you out. http://www.koifishponds.com/building.htm Amber On 2/4/2012 9:43 AM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I wrote about 3 months ago about housing my koi fish (Elle) inside for > the winter since her outside pond wouldn't be adequate for winter > housing. I really appreciate the advice and help everyone gave about > getting her water levels adjusted, and just info in general. > > I thought I'd provide an update so you guys can know how Elle is > fairing. Her water levels have remained at zero for ammonia and > nitrite and her nitrate levels stay at 10-20 ppm. The water > temperature stays constantly at 72 degrees, and I have no way of > moving her aquarium to a 'cooler' room of the house. She seems to be > content and not stressed. I do (2) 25 percent water changes each week. > This has helped the water levels stay healthy. In addition, I also > added two small koi for Elle to have company - Spooks and Ginger. I > didn't want to get anymore than that for fear of overstocking. Since > the addition of the two new fish though, the water levels, as I've > said, are staying well within the acceptable parameters. Elle loves > the company! > > Now that Spring is almost among us (or here for some of us, although > not officially...it feels like its here in South Louisiana now > though..everyone is planting gardens already!), the next step is to > prepare a suitable pond for Elle and company. My plans, as of this > time, are to house Elle and company TEMPORARILY in the 140 gallon pond > come next month. I will need advice on how to transition them back to > outside- what to do about cycling it to prep them for this, etc. I > don't plan to leave them in there for very long. Could I use the same > test kit once they are in the pond? > > I'd also like advice on where I can get a pond liner, and pump/filter > for the bigger pond I want to get done for them this spring. I'm > hoping to do it as inexpensively as possible (I'd like to set my > budget at $1,000 for this project if at all possible...and this is > without me having doing any estimating yet..it will likely be over > some) yet built the best way possible, using quality products. What > kind of pond liner and pump would one recommend? And what size pond is > recommended for 3 koi fish? I know bigger is usually better or the > most expensive one you can afford (at least in the case of bird cages! > I have parrots). I was thinking about a pond 3 feet deep ( with our > somewhat mild winters, I thought this depth would suffice..I know its > probably the minimum..I don't want something very deep though) and > 3400 gallons. What dimensions would the pond have to be to get this > amountT? And how many fish would I be able to keep in this size pond? > I'd like a few more to have a small school of fish. I have a spot > pretty much picked out..our backyard is small and has a huge deck, so > I was thining of putting it in our side yard, near the deck. Next to > our fence is a low lying area...would a few feet away from that be > okay to put a pond? Could we add more dirt to build it up some before > digging the pond? My dad has an excavator and so digging the pond > should not be too labor intense. I just want to make sure we go about > it the right way to begin with, thus saving major problems later on? > When it is set up, would I add water from their smaller pond in there > as well? And I have read that its recommended to put a bottom drain in > the pond? Should the location of the pond be in a somewhat shaded > area? This is a problem if so. Most of our property gets part to full > sun....The front of our home (facing south) gets shade in the middle > of the day but we want the pond to be somewhwere where we can enjoy it > more..we rarely sit on our front porch. The back deck gets a lot of > usage so that is why I wanted to see about situating it near the deck, > if possible. Our backyard is small and basically made up of all deck > minus a small strip of grass just big enough for the lawn mowever to > pass between the deck and wooden fence. > > Sorry for all the jumbled up thoughts and questions. This is so very > new to me and I have a lot to learn about ponds- well, doing them > correctly! Oh and while they are in the smaller pond, I do plan to put > netting over the top to protect them from predators. I Know this was a > concern when I mentioned my preformed pond was not very deep. As I've > said, their staying in the smaller pond is a very temporarily thing > while I get the finances together to get the pond dug (I have a > beautiful stainless steel bird cage I'm going to sell to help fund the > project, to cut down on out of pocket expense) and get the pond > completed. This will take, I hope, no longer than two months. I want > to get them in the bigger pond before the end of Spring. > > I DEEPLY appreciate any and all responses and will try to reply back > in a timely manner. > > Desire' in Southwest Louisiana , where Spring is making its debut already! > Fish momma to the kois- Elle, Spooks and Ginger > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53013	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

I have neutral (7 pH) water here in my town, but unfortunately there are hardly ANY buffers to keep the pH from crashing, so all of my tanks have crushed coral in the substrate as well as in the filter to help buffer the pH and keep my pH from crashing. When I first got my tanks set up and I tested the pH (without any crushed coral in the filter/substrate) my pH was in the low 6's, and headed for the 5 pH range. Straight from the tap it's 7, and after 48 hours it's still at 7, but when it goes into the fish tank all my plants eat up the buffers and cause the pH to quickly drop. So I've had to combat this by adding crushed coral. It's hard to find a happy medium and after a couple years I've figured it out (finally). It didn't help when I started adding driftwood to my tanks for my pleco's, I had to watch my pH closely again to see how the driftwood affected my water. It's just so much easier when you have enough buffers in the water to keep the pH at a stable level. I wish I didn't have to worry about it! I'm jealous of people who don't have to add buffers to their tanks, LOL. Amber On 2/4/2012 5:16 PM, Bill wrote: > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters > rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they > do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact > opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving > to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of > the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften > the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do > the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - > using driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too > low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53014	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/4/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53015	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?   There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53016	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be ideal for all of them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53017	From: Catie Mccormick	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: New to the group

I have just become the owner of a ten gallon tank with three tetras (2 black skirt & 1 pink) and a pleco that is about 2" shorter than the height of the tank.  I got them from a family that got the set up to teach the daughter "responsibility.  So here I am, asking for help.  The black skirt tetras have almost no color and I thought they needed to be in a bigger group than three.   Setup includes: heater, plastic plants, WalMart filter, airstone and 2.5" of typical WalMart colored gravel.  The food given to me was cheap tropical fish flakes and algae tabs.   I also have (not set up) a 55 gallon tank and (not set up) 5 gallon tank.   The first thing I want to do is make sure I have the right ph (I have to buy a ph test kit) and add some live plants.    Please let me know what I need to do to get these fish healthy and happy.   Caitrin "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." — Will Rogers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53018	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. Bill in Va.   The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be ideal for all of them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53019	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

But those (with the exception of certain shellies) would not be appropriate for a 10G. I have been keeping fish from the Rift Lakes (Malawi, Victoria, Tanganyika) for the past seven years love them! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 11:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans. Those are what I was suggesting. I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and Lake Tanganyika. It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. Bill in Va. The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be ideal for all of them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes twice a week. If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to clean them for spiders. Amber On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > >  > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > gases are gone again. > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53020	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group

You can get a good test kit (master test kit) by API from walmart.com and have it shipped to your local store for pickup for free shipping. This is one of the cheapest ways to get a test kit. First I'd recommend getting that 55 gallon set up, as soon as you have it set up move all the fish to a bucket temporarily. Then move all the gravel and decorations over to the 55 gallon, and move the filter to the 55 gallon as well. If you don't have a filter for the 55 gallon already I'd get that before moving everyone, but make sure you move all the decorations and the 10 gallon's filter, as these are all holding the nitrifying bacteria that you will need to colonize the 55 gallon with. Your tetras can do okay with just a group of 3, but you're right, they will prefer more than that for their school. The reason I suggest moving all the fish to your 55 gallon is because of that Pleco, right now he's drastically over grown for that little 10 gallon tank, and he's going to cause health issues for the other fish (as well as himself eventually, but he's the hardiest fish in that tank right now). He's putting out a lot of waste for such a small tank, that is probably why the skirts are so light in color (they are stressed out). Amber On 2/5/2012 5:29 AM, Catie Mccormick wrote: > > I have just become the owner of a ten gallon tank with three tetras (2 > black skirt & 1 pink) and a pleco that is about 2" shorter than the > height of the tank. I got them from a family that got the set up to > teach the daughter "responsibility. So here I am, asking for help. > The black skirt tetras have almost no color and I thought they needed > to be in a bigger group than three. > > Setup includes: heater, plastic plants, WalMart filter, airstone and > 2.5" of typical WalMart colored gravel. The food given to me was > cheap tropical fish flakes and algae tabs. > > I also have (not set up) a 55 gallon tank and (not set up) 5 gallon tank. > > The first thing I want to do is make sure I have the right ph (I have > to buy a ph test kit) and add some live plants. > > Please let me know what I need to do to get these fish healthy and happy. > > Caitrin > > "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where > they went." — Will Rogers > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53021	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Bill, Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > Bill in Va. >   > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > ideal for all of them. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53022	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Gotcha... maybe it's because I'm exposed within my local fish club (150 strong) of 90% that keep the cichlids of the 3 big lakes.. Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?   Bill, Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > Bill in Va. >   > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > ideal for all of them. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53023	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , high PH African's, that ya can't defend.  Just for hit's and grins, I did a google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221%c2%a0   (while I don't agree with it.. it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores will require hard and high water) Or here is cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.php Later, Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?   Bill, Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > Bill in Va. >   > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > ideal for all of them. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53024	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Can anyone think of an African that would prefer the pH=8.2 and 10G tank that Nora is asking about other than a few of the shellies? I couldn’t, but maybe I’m too used to the more common ones and the Malawi-Victoria-Tanganyika ones. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , high PH African's, that ya can't defend. Just for hit's and grins, I did a google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221 (while I don't agree with it.. it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores will require hard and high water) Or here is cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.p hp Later, Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Bill, Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > Bill in Va. >  > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > ideal for all of them. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53025	From: haecklers	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group

That's a big pleco for a tank that small! I bet the color loss is from the water problems of living with a fish that big in a tank that small. I'd do water changes about every 2 days until you have time to set up the 55 gallon. That or see if a pet store wants the big pleco. Do you know if the gravel has been vacuumed? It may have a lot of food bits that have fallen down into it that could be a source of bacteria, another problem. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Catie Mccormick <catie.mccormick@...> wrote: > > I have just become the owner of a ten gallon tank with three tetras (2 black skirt & 1 pink) and a pleco that is about 2" shorter than the height of the tank.  I got them from a family that got the set up to teach the daughter "responsibility.  So here I am, asking for help.  The black skirt tetras have almost no color and I thought they needed to be in a bigger group than three. >   > Setup includes: heater, plastic plants, WalMart filter, airstone and 2.5" of typical WalMart colored gravel.  The food given to me was cheap tropical fish flakes and algae tabs. >   > I also have (not set up) a 55 gallon tank and (not set up) 5 gallon tank. >   > The first thing I want to do is make sure I have the right ph (I have to buy a ph test kit) and add some live plants.  >   > Please let me know what I need to do to get these fish healthy and happy. >   > Caitrin > > "If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." â€" Will Rogers > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53026	From: NA	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Picking out fish.

As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53027	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Not having had the opportunity to get up on line for the past several days, I'll reply to those messages which I see need attending to, either to support and clarify what has been offered or to show the errors of what has been brought forth. While I've read most of the posts, I might have missed a few, but to start here -- even if this was covered (which I'll address separately if needed to) -- most often when stringy white waste appears hanging from the belly, it could very well be an indication of parasite being present in the digestive system. This white matter is generally the result of some of the cells of the linings of the stomach and/or the intestine, depending upon how far advanced the parasite is. While this manifestation may not necessarily be from parasites all the time, when it is seen, it's prudent to assume it could be and it should be addressed accordingly, along with the way the fish is behaving. When such parasites do occur, the affected fish generally loses it's appetite, so offering medicated food is often useless. If the fish is still eating, ingestion of the proper medication as part of the food is the best way to effect a cure. If the fish refuses to eat, medication must be administered via the water column. Salt (NaCl) does nothing to aid in this treatment, although when caught early, Epsom salt will help clean the digestive system and at the same time eliminate many of the parasites adhering to the stomach lining, but while this will help it will not cure the fish in itself. It will help promote an easier cure though, along with the medication. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53028	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Donna.. I must have missed the declaration of a 10G... My OP was to "work with what ya have"... Hard water. high ph... This is beyond the pale as far as nit-pickiing... As a mod of my fishclub, I'd have set the record straight in no time.. Apparently there are a number on here that live to confront.. Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:07 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?   Can anyone think of an African that would prefer the pH=8.2 and 10G tank that Nora is asking about other than a few of the shellies? I couldn’t, but maybe I’m too used to the more common ones and the Malawi-Victoria-Tanganyika ones. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , high PH African's, that ya can't defend. Just for hit's and grins, I did a google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221 (while I don't agree with it.. it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores will require hard and high water) Or here is cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.p hp Later, Bill in Va. ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? Bill, Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > Bill in Va. >  > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > ideal for all of them. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > twice a week. > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > clean them for spiders. > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > >  > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53029	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: New to the group

I would tend to disagree with moving that Pleco into the 55 until it is established well. Plecos are a lot like horses. They can look big & strong and yet are actually quite delicate when it comes to rapid changes. The Pleco has been in that 10 gal environment for as long as took to grow that big. It isn't going to die from being there for a few more weeks while the other, larger tank gets to a more established maturity level. Although it is in a very small environ for it's size, the dangers of new tank syndrome would be far more likely to do it in than having a bit of patience. That's my 2 cents- keep the change.   Chris in SC ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53030	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Yes, as was previously stated, white stringy feces is not necessarily a sign of internal parasites -- but it most often is, more so than most any other factor. Right, the idea here is to wait it out if there was another source of irritation recently affecting the fish. For this reason, except for the note on the Epsom salt, I didn't specify any medication to be used -- nor did I mention what type of medicated food to be given (not all medicated foods contain the same meds). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53031	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

I notice here that the Mollies are not eating very well, but I don't know how well they were eating when you first got them. I don't recall your giving us your water parameters at this point, although I can't specifically say. The water parameters (in numbers) might give an indication as to these fish's loss of appetite if it were recent. External parasites would be shown by the fish being irritated by them, and causing them to flash against an object (rock, ornament. etc.) in the aquarium or the gravel. If the fish aren't displaying this behavior, there's no reason to medicate against such external parasites which would not seem to exist. Generally, hospital tanks are not cycled, because 1) they often receive medication which kills nitrifying bacteria, and 2) the affected fish generally (hopefully) are cured long before a cycling tank's parameters will escalate to any point that would become toxic, especially as most treatments call for PWC's between doses. Not knowing the size of the hospital tank, I can't comment on whether 6 Tablespoons of salt is proper. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53032	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Great post. Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?   Not having had the opportunity to get up on line for the past several days, I'll reply to those messages which I see need attending to, either to support and clarify what has been offered or to show the errors of what has been brought forth. While I've read most of the posts, I might have missed a few, but to start here -- even if this was covered (which I'll address separately if needed to) -- most often when stringy white waste appears hanging from the belly, it could very well be an indication of parasite being present in the digestive system. This white matter is generally the result of some of the cells of the linings of the stomach and/or the intestine, depending upon how far advanced the parasite is. While this manifestation may not necessarily be from parasites all the time, when it is seen, it's prudent to assume it could be and it should be addressed accordingly, along with the way the fish is behaving. When such parasites do occur, the affected fish generally loses it's appetite, so offering medicated food is often useless. If the fish is still eating, ingestion of the proper medication as part of the food is the best way to effect a cure. If the fish refuses to eat, medication must be administered via the water column. Salt (NaCl) does nothing to aid in this treatment, although when caught early, Epsom salt will help clean the digestive system and at the same time eliminate many of the parasites adhering to the stomach lining, but while this will help it will not cure the fish in itself. It will help promote an easier cure though, along with the medication. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > Thanks, > Nora > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53033	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

It could well be that the fish were sick when obtained, but Ich could have come from a chilling between the store and the home. Additionally, if the ammonia and nitrite were elevated in cycling, the stress of this could have either brought on an illness or contributed to one already contracted in the LFS. It should be noted too, that while Mollies are inexpensive and on par with many other common Livebearers in cost, they are not really "beginner" fish. Getting back to the white stringy feces, while I haven't seen whether the fish is eating or not (did I miss that?), the behavior of it resting on the bottom could indicate more than the digestive system just being irritated from the medicine. It could be a sign of internal parasites (Hexamita). This is not necessarily linked with either HITH (Hole In The Head) disease or HLLE (Head & Lateral Line Erosion) disease. While it was first assumed a good number of years ago that Heximita was linked with the afore-mentioned maladies (HITH and HLLE), the more recent take on this is that while both can occur simultaneously, this is usually no direct connection between the two. Heximita (internal parasites) is caused by one of several species of the genus Hexamita, notably Hexamita intestinalis or H. truttae (or H. salmanis, in trout). On the other hand, HITH and HLLE are found to be caused by a related Diplomad (there are about 15 to 20 different ones), most often Spironucleus vortens or Spironucleus barkhanus. However, when the fish contracts Spironeucleus torosa, this can effect the fish in the gut, similar to Heximita as well as manifesting itself as the external erosions of the head and lateral line. Whether caused by a Heximita species or by S. torosa, the medication of choice for treating these internal flagellates/parasites is Metronidazole -- at a rate not less than 400 mg per 10 gallons (and preferably, at 500 mg per 10 gallons)-- not the 250 mg per gallon on the label -- at a temperature of no less than 30 o C (86 0 F) -- Metronidazole's optimum temperature of activity is 28 o C -- but as Heximita does not respond very well to Metronidazole even 86 o F, this temperature needs to be raised to 90 o F (92 o F, if the fish will tolerate it). Reason for this is that Hexamita's optimum temperature for multiplication is from 28 o C to 31 o C (85 o F to 88 o F). Contrary to what the medication's labels will say, Metronidazole should be re-administered at no later than 8 hour intervals for best results, as it's half-life is 6 to 8 hours at 86 o F. A 25% PWC should be done between each dosage. As Metronidazole is not very soluable in water, it should first be made into a paste and slowly have very warm water added to it thereafter before adding it to the tank. It can (should, with hardy fish such as Cichlids) be used in conjunction with the medication -- Clout -- which is to be used as directed at one 250 mg tablet per 10 gallons (and not more). Usually, 3 such consecutive treatments are needed for best results, with a 50% PWC afterwards. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53034	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Hi Nora, I think what Dawn means, and what I seem to see, is that you appear to vacillate here from some of the more obscure or somewhat erroneous advices to other more sound and accurate pieces of advice. This is not totally unexpected as I'm sure that much of this is all new to you. My estimation here even is that you're somewhat confused by the many replies from all directions, sometimes even giving you somewhat conflicting (or at least not harmonious) information, quite possibly resulting in your not even being aware that you're confused -- but your reactions appear to show it. There's a lot to digest here, and as a beginner, there's no way you can know all of what to believe from everyone. So, by that same token, you really can't yet know what's right or wrong in some cases, so you shouldn't take the stance that you do (as it's impossible to). I would like to point out though, that Dawn has only the best of intentions here towards you and your fish, and has been giving nothing but the most accurate information. I do hope that you can accept her kind advice for what it's worth as you'd be hard-pressed to get much more useful information. One problem here is that while all the members here are giving great advice for the most part, and so much better than you'd find elsewhere, there is still some inaccurate and misleading comments being made even on this group -- even though not intentionally -- but it only adds to not receiving some needed good info that you have no way of knowing one way or the other. I know that you need to make some decisions out of all this, but try to accept the factual knowledge that is given to you in good faith, and weigh it against any poor bits of info that are being corrected. Hope your fish will be doing better soon. We'll try our best to stear you right on how to proceed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > I am sorry you feel that I do not take the advice here seriously. Quite the opposite is the case and it was a lot of times very helpful for me in determining how to proceed. > But this is not the only source of advice I get and often in getting advice opinions and not facts are involved. So knowing my complete situation at the end I have to try to take everything into account and make the best decision I can. > > I am not sure if you read my messages as detailed as you mention. I used only one medication until now: Maracide that seems on the more harmless side and was probably quite necessary in my case (all fish from different tanks and stores put together without quarantine). If I stay in front of the situation of letting a fish die because of doing nothing, I rather take action and try my best. Even if I do not have the experience to get everything right immediately. > > Thanks to the input I got we now have a quarantine tank that is 10G. According to the knowledge I acquired the salt level is just fine for my purpose: it treats two sick mollies who are able to live even in marine saltwater and is rather beneficial to them. Depending on the next days and further research I might even increase it a little bit. Additionally it helps against possible ick and velvet infection. As you mentioned the symptoms on my mollies are not completely clear. That is why I choose the heat and salt treatment for the moment since mollies should thrive with it anyway. > The additional medications I mentioned I have not yet used BECAUSE I was waiting for more input here. > > At the moment the two mollies are both doing better in the hospital tank: they are swimming more actively again and started to have a lot of interest in food (including eating it) > > So I am sorry if you are frustrated with my actions, but in my situation (including my family situation with having little kids) I do the best I can. After starting having fish I talked to a lot of people and from what I heard and saw until know it was just scary to see the lack of knowledge and willingness to improve fish situations in many households. So sorry again that I am not willing to accept all the blame you are imposing on me. I am willing to improve and learn but have to make decisions at some point/time that might not agree with your ideas and might not be perfect. > > But I also learned already that fish keepers are quite opinionated about most things and realized that I, too started to be less tolerant with actions in fish keeping I judge wrong... > > In any case I hope to continue to get advice and can only confirm again, that I value all opinions and try to get the most out of them. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > Nora, > > White stringy poop can be caused by a lot of different things, including what they are eating and if they stop eating. The color of the poop can change quickly according to their diet and doesn't not mean they have internal parasites. There are steps to properly diagnosing a problem and that symptom alone doesn't give a clear indication of any problem at all. > > > > I have been following your posts since you first got started with this tank. The biggest problems I can see are 1. lack of proper quarantine of new fish, 2. Over stocking the tank from the very beginning, 3. Dosing medications before getting the proper advice, and 4. Too many drastic changes taking place for new fish that are already stressed from the other problems mentioned. All of these things are situations that members here have tried their best to help warn you about and yet you went ahead and did it all anyways. > > > > The reason I am pointing this out is because I'm wondering if the time we have all spent trying to help you has even been worth our efforts? Do you really want our help to begin with? > > > > I am sorry if this sounds harsh but it can be quite frustrating for everyone to spend the time trying to help you and then watch you go ahead and ignore our advice anyways... only to have you come back afterwards and ask for more because things went horribly wrong. I am not trying to be cruel but everyone here is a volunteer and everyone here cares about what happens with you and your fish. > > > > If white stringy poop is the only symptom there is no reason to be dumping any medications into that tank at all... unless you surely want to kill the fish. Adding medications on a whim just to be doing something is not going to help your fish. Medications can be quite toxic, especially if you are adding something that your particular species of fish can't handle. Also, not all medications can mix with each other and not all can be safely mixed into a tank with heavy salt content. Fish have very delicate systems that are easily damaged. Just as much as improper medications can cause harm so can stress and massive amounts of change to their environment, especially over a short period of time and even more so with new fish that have already suffered the stress of being moved from wholesaler/breeder to store to home tank environment. Poor water quality such as you have been experiencing can also cause stress enough to make fish sick, but that is usually something that is most easily fixed by fixing the problems in the water chemistry. > > > > You have not indicated whether or not the ich has disappeared? You haven't listed any other new symptoms besides white poop? You mentioned adding 6 tablespoons of salt to the new hospital tank, but have not said what size it is? If that is a 10 gallon or smaller tank, that is a LOT of salt... especially if they are coming from a tank with almost no salt in it. That kind of drastic change could be harmful enough to kill them. Adding medications to that even worse. Treating them with an antibiotic when there is no sign of a bacterial infection.. again, only going to cause more harm. Mixing antibiotics alongside of a medication to treat parasites in that tank... if they survive that I would be very surprised. > > > > Most of the mistakes you have made thus far are easily avoided if you were to slow down and listen to the advice offered from the members here in the group. Ray has tried a number of times to help you, as have I. We can't help you if you don't listen to our advice. > > > > The best thing you can do right now for your fish is to let them be, work on getting the water parameters in check (ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrates no higher than 20) and provide us with a list of all of their symptoms and as much details about the tank as it is now as you possibly can, even if it seems trivial to you. Once we have a clear picture of exactly what is happening in your tank we can suggest any medications you might need for existing problems and talk you through the steps on how to use it safely. > > > > I, personally, would very much like to help you but I am feeling at a loss right now... not sure that anything I'm going to suggest is going to be taken seriously or acted upon. > > Your fish don't have to continue to die or struggle... but that choice is entirely up to you. > > The most important key to success in fish keeping is patience. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53035	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hi NA, The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? John*<o)))< * On 5 February 2012 20:24, NA <specialname76@...> wrote: > ** > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a > mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. > According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test > kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a > heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get > things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water > from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53036	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: 2 mollies in hospital tank, info

I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > To summarize: > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > My questions: > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > Thanks for ideas! > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53037	From: Jamie arthur	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Nevermind, I will just keep to myself like usual. I rehomed them, added a heater and know that strip are not accurate. Well guess I will unjoin ever better. bye. I asked about picking a mix of fish not to be picked apart.. ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   Hi NA, The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? John*<o)))< * On 5 February 2012 20:24, NA <specialname76@...> wrote: > ** > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a > mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. > According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test > kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a > heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get > things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water > from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53038	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

I realize that the topic here has been replied to, even in some detail, but in attempts to cover it even more thoroughly, I'd like to exemplify the matter of this subject more clearly. It looks like you have this 10 gallon tank running for two months now. While the biofilter portion needn't be exchanged (for new), it should at least have been removed every 2 or three weeks and rinsed in old aquarium water that was about to be discarded during a PWC -- which I'm assuming you did. Carbon is always promoted by the filter manufacturers, and others who would say it's needed, but the real fact is that as much if not more impurities of all kinds are being removed directly every time you do a partial water change. Of course this doesn't preclude any impurities you may be adding as part of your tap water, but as much good that carbon may do, it can also do reversible damage when it becomes saturated with impurities, releasing the very impurities that it was gathering up -- and there's no way of knowing when that will occur. One big problem with carbon is that it's impossible to know when it's used up. One other suspected problem with carbon is that it may be removing any of the needed vitamins and minerals that be be dissolved in the water, and which are needed by the fish. It's thought that this vitamin (especially "C") and mineral deprivation may contribute to fish contracting Hexamita. Many filters have a mechanical medium (which removes actual particles of debris), and a biological medium where nitrifying bacteria are cultured (which removes your dissolved organic wastes). As you already have a bio-filter section, it would not be advantageous to install a section of foam to further this same purpose. Yes, there are better alternatives, and you don't need to continue to use the carbon, but you may use the same cartridge that the carbon came in, simply by slitting the cartridge across the dump and dumping the carbon. Then, just replace it with one of the media that are available from any one of the reputable on-line aquarium supply houses (such as Drs Foster & Smith). You may replace the carbon with any one of these following products -- Eheim Ehfisubstrat Pro, Azoo Quartz Ball Bio Media or Azoo Bio-Glass -- lava, ceramic or glass mini-pieces which will grow more nitrifying bacteria. The outer cartridge itself will act as a mechanical filter, removing any heavy particals. It can be removed from the filter periodically and again rinsed in old aquarium water. You can even use coarse gravel in these cartridges as a surface to grow bacteria on. BTW, your exchanging these 3 carbon filters for new, during this two year period, has continually led to mini-cycles as you were removing a substantial portion of your nitrifying bacteria each time you did this. These bacteria do not only grow in your biological filtration section of your filter but on any such surfaces in your filter where well oxygentated water flows past. Well established carbon holds a lot of nitrifying bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > Thanks for your concerns. > I am very sure my kids put nothing in the tank without me. I dose the feedings in their hands and only that goes in. > > The filter: I never exchanged the bio filter and I have the 3rd carbon filter in after almost 2 months now. > > How about carbon in general: are there better alternatives? We have a power filter that hangs on the outside that was included with the aquariums (we added an air stone in addition) > I read the carbon filter might take out minerals for the fish and can produce little particles that float in the water? > > Would you or somebody know what is usually a common filter choice besides carbon? > > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > After hearing how many fish you have, I think probably the problems in the mollies were mainly from ammonia, which should be kept to 0, any amount is toxic. When you get new fish, if you are able to keep them in very clean water they can often overcome whatever infections they are carrying from the store and become healthy, but if the water contains toxins like ammonia then they cannot fight anything off and quickly succumb, plus spread illness and parasites to the other fish. > > > > It's good you got the second tank, mollies grow to 2-3 inches so they would have quickly outgrown the other tank, making it too overcrowded to keep all of the fish healthy (or alive). Experienced fish keepers can keep tanks much more heavily stocked than 1 fish-inch per gallon (I had 30 1-inch betta fry in a 10 gallon) but it's a lot of work with large daily water changes and constant vacuuming. The less work you want it to be the lower your stocking rate should be. Unless your fish are very small babies, I'd suggest you already up the water changes to 2 gallons every 3-4 days, making sure to age the water for 24 hours first each time (a dedicated 2-gallon bucket will be helpful here!) > > > > If you get any reading of ammonia, do more water changes until it goes back down to 0 again. > > > > You don't really need to change out the carbon all that often - every 3 weeks is sufficient, but once the tank has cycled it shouldn't need the carbon any more unless you add medication and need to remove it (carbon removes medications from the water). Having carbon is bad for your aquatic plants, too. > > > > If you are changing out all of the filter media then your tank cannot cycle because it's the filter media that need to get the beneficial bacteria established. > > > > One more issue that can happen with kids and tanks is the kids sometimes decide to feed the fish when you're not around or to show their friends and accidentally over-feed them. Well, I even caught one of my daughter's friends HOLDING one of our guppies, in her hands, out of the water. You never know what kids (or their friends) will do sometimes. If you ever notice the water smelling "off" or the fish suddenly going sick, do a 90% water change, vacuum, and squeeze out the filter into the water you removed in the water change (then put it back it for the beneficial bacteria still there to continue doing their job) > > > > I set up a nano tank (5 gallons) for my kids that they loved for a long time. It had red cherry shrimp, kuhli loaches, and whatever came off of some mossy rocks they found in a stream - mostly planaria but also some damselfly nymphs and other interesting critters. I found the key to enjoying a small tank is to put in small creatures, so it creates an illusion of a huge world. We used a lot of plants, too - java moss and vallisneria mostly. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > thanks, yes it seems the fish are often not in the best shape. I bought the first mollies from a tropical fish store and one of the tanks was treated later for ich :( > > > We also made the mistake of buying neons from a tank with lots of dead plecos in it in another store....never again. > > > > > > With the hexamita I read it might cause the hole in head disease but must not. Are there other problems associated with it? I could not find much about it and are not sure how I could diagnose it apart from that. > > > > > > I am afraid we have no chance for fry: we bought all males. Taking care of fry seemed too much to handle in the beginning. I was not aware of how many diseases the adult fish could bring home with them. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ah! So probably they were sick when you got them. I've had a lot of trouble with pet store fish, it's getting to where I'll only buy from 2 of the 5 local stores and even then I check their tankmates and quarantine them for several weeks. It seems the quality of the "cheap beginner fish" like mollies is really deteriorating lately. :( > > > > > > > > White stringy poos can be a symptom of hexamita, which dies at around 90F, but you'd have to check whether your fish can handle that high a temp (kills plecos, I've found out the hard way). That can make them hide, stop swimming and eating, and lose weight/waste until they die. It also causes hole-in-the-head disease, with ulcers in the skin, but not always. It used to be rare, but I've had bettas with it. I think the pet stores accidentally spread it from tank to tank via shared water. > > > > > > > > With guppies, another livebearer, the adults from pet stores die more often than not, and the best strategy is to nurse them along until they have some fry, which usually do just fine and live a long time. So hopefully your mollies can manage to squeeze out a few fry before they pass. > > > > > > > > Sorry to hear about all of your problems. Fishkeeping can be really fun once you get some stable stock! > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the advice! I have a 10G tank with probably too many fish. But I was aware of the cycling (at least after the first initial 2 days) and do regular water tests. I always have 2-3 Tablespoon salt in the tank and the toxic values are not perfect but manageable. I think the Tetras in the tank can act as additional indicator that the water quality cannot be too bad since they are fine. I also still do lots of water changes and add occasionally bacteria. > > > > > > > > > > I have the mollies for several weeks from different stores and added them directly into the tank (all the other fish too). So I am afraid I can have all types of problems. One molly recently died and it was sickly from the beginning but survived the cycling of the tank. Afterwards it got worse and I never knew what really happened. It just got weaker over maybe 2 weeks and finally died (with swimming troubles). > > > > > I suspect we might have parasites, internal or external. > > > > > > > > > > The new hospital tank with the newly transferred two mollies is not cycled yet. Right now I will heat it up to 86F and have already 6 Tablespoon salt in it and will add a few more. Additionally I plan to use antibiotics and maybe something against internal parasites. But the mollies are hardly eating anymore so I am not sure if that makes sense... > > > > > > > > > > I am only sure that they will die if I do nothing. They are sickly too long and it does not get better. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > White stringy poop can be normal if the fish's internal organs have been irritated like from recent medication. You just treated them for ich, right? I'd wait a bit and see if it goes away. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this a new tank with new fish? How big is the tank and how many fish do you have? I'm asking because pet stores often don't tell customers about cycling a tank, and let them start with too many fish. If that is the case, especially if you have too many fish in too small a tank, they will probably die unless you work really hard to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. There is a lot of good information on the internet about this, here is one example: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like you have several new mollies - if so, maybe you can take back all but one and let the tank cycle with that one, then get more in a month or two. Adding lots of plants is another way to help bring down the ammonia - floating stem plants and houseplant cuttings work well. And you'll need to either buy a test kit or take some of your water in to the pet store to get it tested to see what your ammonia is. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the ich, raising the temperature of the tank to 90F for a few days (or above 86F, at any rate) will kill the ich without medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mollies need salt, so do add some. Just don't use table salt because it has whiteners and flow agents added, but Kosher or sea salt is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > > > > > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53039	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then added on for these fish. Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid newbie mistakes. Wish you the best- Chris     ________________________________ Hi NA,   The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish?   John*<o)))< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53040	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Do you currently have gold fish in the tank? If so you can't mix with tropical fish, goldfish prefer colder waters than most tropical fish will live in, not to mention gold fish are notorious for eating whatever fits in their mouth (fish included). If you don't have any fish in the tank, then the tank can no longer be 'cycled' your bacteria will quickly die off if you aren't feeding the tank with a source of ammonia (which is a waste product from your fish). Also it takes more than just used water to cycle a tank, you often have to feed it from your filter as well (you can rub sponges and such together to help seed the new filter), but you will still have to watch the water parameters as this will not fully cycle a tank. Your bacteria will still have to grow. Amber On 2/5/2012 11:24 AM, NA wrote: > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion > for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller > fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a > master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get > those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week > with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is > cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53041	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

I was just as confused as John was, and neither of us were picking on anyone, only clarifying what we weren't sure about. If the person can't handle questions then this is not the group for them. We often have to ask more questions to give the proper answers. Amber On 2/5/2012 3:57 PM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they > indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then > added on for these fish. > Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make > the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first > go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with > a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add > 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish > at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you > don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid > newbie mistakes. > Wish you the best- Chris > > > > ________________________________ > Hi NA, > > The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously > with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where > your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? > > John*<o)))< > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53042	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Phyllis.. ya think it might be too late?.. Seeing that he/she's only faced ridicule on here I cannot blame him/her for now becoming the latest member on my local fish club.  Turns out he/she's only 40 miles down the road from the core of our group!.. Take heart, we'll not treat him/her in the same manner and will encourage rather than discourage their venture into this wonderful hobby.  Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then added on for these fish. Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid newbie mistakes. Wish you the best- Chris     ________________________________ Hi NA,   The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish?   John*<o)))< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53043	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Where was this 'ridicule'? Please show it to me, I only saw people asking questions and clarifying. Myself included. This is called constructive criticism, some people can't handle it apparently. Amber On 2/5/2012 5:46 PM, Bill wrote: > > Phyllis.. ya think it might be too late?.. Seeing that he/she's only > faced ridicule on here I cannot blame him/her for now becoming the > latest member on my local fish club. Turns out he/she's only 40 miles > down the road from the core of our group!.. Take heart, we'll not > treat him/her in the same manner and will encourage rather than > discourage their venture into this wonderful hobby. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@... > <mailto:phylliscrubaugh%40yahoo.com>> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. > > > > I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they > indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then > added on for these fish. > Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make > the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first > go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with > a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add > 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish > at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you > don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid > newbie mistakes. > Wish you the best- Chris > > > > ________________________________ > Hi NA, > > The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit > enormously > with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where > your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? > > John*<o)))< > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53044	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Amber..If you can't see it.. you'll not understand.. Good luck... And thanks for our newest member.. Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   Where was this 'ridicule'? Please show it to me, I only saw people asking questions and clarifying. Myself included. This is called constructive criticism, some people can't handle it apparently. Amber On 2/5/2012 5:46 PM, Bill wrote: > > Phyllis.. ya think it might be too late?.. Seeing that he/she's only > faced ridicule on here I cannot blame him/her for now becoming the > latest member on my local fish club. Turns out he/she's only 40 miles > down the road from the core of our group!.. Take heart, we'll not > treat him/her in the same manner and will encourage rather than > discourage their venture into this wonderful hobby. Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@... > <mailto:phylliscrubaugh%40yahoo.com>> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. > > > > I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they > indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then > added on for these fish. > Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make > the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first > go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with > a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add > 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish > at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you > don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid > newbie mistakes. > Wish you the best- Chris > > > > ________________________________ > Hi NA, > > The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit > enormously > with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where > your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? > > John*<o)))< > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53045	From: Bill	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

To all:... I posted earlier about some of the nit-picking going on with this site.  The latest post from NA or whatever just kinda supports my position.  Now I suggest ya all sit back and ask yourselves. "Am I in this to help others or to bolster my ego by showing my knowledge and trying to "one-upmanship" the  other "guru's" on here"... As stated, I'm a moderator on a relatively new fish group based in Richmond, Va.  One year, over 150 members.  We don't have presidents, vice's, or anything other like that.. Just hobby'st looking for advice or looking to offer advice.  If I were a mod of this group, I'da been busier than a "one-legged man in an a$$ kicking contest"... Good luck going forward. Bill McDonald Richmond, Va.  ________________________________ From: Jamie arthur <specialname76@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   Nevermind, I will just keep to myself like usual. I rehomed them, added a heater and know that strip are not accurate. Well guess I will unjoin ever better. bye. I asked about picking a mix of fish not to be picked apart.. ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   Hi NA, The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? John*<o)))< * On 5 February 2012 20:24, NA <specialname76@...> wrote: > ** > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a > mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. > According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test > kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a > heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get > things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water > from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53046	From: William M	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Amber.. "He had gold fish".. then being lectured on keeping gold fish in the tank with others... "He was going to pick up a API liquid test kit" and being lectured about the test strips... There are about 3 or 5 on this yahoo group that use it as a lectern to show-off their knowledge rather than mentor those new to the hobby. I frankly do not "suffer fools gladly".. nor those that need to stroke their own egos or lack-of-life by belittling others that are only in a stage that we all have been in at one point in time. If ya wanna see a FRIENDLY and welcoming fish club.. hit me up at williemcd@... and I steer you to my group that has more activity, more membership applications and more satisfaction than this national group.. and ours is a very localized group... Richmond, Va. NUFF SAID.. Bill McDonald Richmond, Va. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Where was this 'ridicule'? Please show it to me, I only saw people > asking questions and clarifying. Myself included. This is called > constructive criticism, some people can't handle it apparently. > > Amber > > On 2/5/2012 5:46 PM, Bill wrote: > > > > Phyllis.. ya think it might be too late?.. Seeing that he/she's only > > faced ridicule on here I cannot blame him/her for now becoming the > > latest member on my local fish club. Turns out he/she's only 40 miles > > down the road from the core of our group!.. Take heart, we'll not > > treat him/her in the same manner and will encourage rather than > > discourage their venture into this wonderful hobby. Bill in Va. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@... > > <mailto:phylliscrubaugh%40yahoo.com>> > > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. > > > > > > > > I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they > > indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then > > added on for these fish. > > Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make > > the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first > > go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with > > a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add > > 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish > > at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you > > don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid > > newbie mistakes. > > Wish you the best- Chris > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Hi NA, > > > > The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit > > enormously > > with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where > > your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53047	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hi Bill-   I saw their reply email after I had sent my own. Yeah, prolly too late, but I hope not. I didn't see anybody beating them up- just trying to get info. Their email was just mis-read and a question asked about it based on what they saw. As they say, defecation occurs. If you are still around specialname- hang in there with us. It was a simple misunderstanding. Nobody is beating you up.   Although I will say that it seems to me that some folks ( me included at times ) are pretty opinionated when it comes to this hobby. I have watched another thread on here that has been beating the crap out of using carbon filtration. Heck, I didn't know that after 45 years of successful fishkeeping, I've been getting it wrong for all of these years! LOL. I am now down to only 8 tanks from around 35 of them ( yeah, I was nuts ) and all but 2 of them have exclusively carbon filtration. The other 2 are drilled and sumped. Even those 2 have a bag o' carbon in the sump. The use of carbon isn't a bad thing folks. Let's not forget that the good bacteria is on the substrate, the bag that the carbon is in, on the decorations, plants and everything in the tank too.   Sorry to merge 2 different threads here, but it is an example of how we kinda take off in a direction and don't look left or right while we drive our point through. In this one case though, I think it was an honest attempt to help that got taken wrong. I am new here, so don't want to come across in a any way that can be taken as rude. Dunno some times if I should speak up or not. You asked me directly, so I answered. Peace to all-- Chris   ________________________________ From: Bill <williemcd@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. Phyllis.. ya think it might be too late?.. Seeing that he/she's only faced ridicule on here I cannot blame him/her for now becoming the latest member on my local fish club.  Turns out he/she's only 40 miles down the road from the core of our group!.. Take heart, we'll not treat him/her in the same manner and will encourage rather than discourage their venture into this wonderful hobby.  Bill in Va.  ________________________________ From: phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then added on for these fish. Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid newbie mistakes. Wish you the best- Chris     ________________________________ Hi NA, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53048	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Velvet ?

Nora, If you're really convinced that one of your Mollies has Velvet, try locating Jungle Lab's Velvet Guard. I'm afraid sending a photo of the affected fish wouldn't help, as I doubt it would show up well. The Velvet Guard is about the best med you can use for this, although Prazi-Pro is also effective -- and can be found at Drs Foster & Smith. Velvet can infect fish that are stressed by fluctuating temperatures and poor water conditions and your water conditions are far from being good for fish, as I've already explained. Keep the temperature up, but it doesn't need to be at 86 o. A somewhat higher temperature will increase the activity of the immune system though. While the Maracide you were using is said to help against Velvet, a medication containing acriflavin would be much better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > I think one of my mollies has probably velvet (the other one maybe too but not visible yet). I see the gold dust on it in the sunshine and the other scratched his gills on the glass today. > Does anybody has experience with treating velvet? > It seems it is rather deadly when visible but maybe there are other experiences? Did treatment work for somebody? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53049	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hi Nora, I thought I had read that your pH was high -- after the CO2 outgassed -- and I see now where I read this. I don't know if you care to go to the expense, but you could get an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit which will give you pure water with no minerals in it. By mixing a portion of this water with your tap water, you'll greatly reduce the carbonate hardness (KH) of the water which should bring your pH down naturally. Barring this route, you could use distilled water if you can be assured that copper piping was not used in the process. Getting back to your ammonia, it starts getting toxic with your pH 8.2, at 76 o. You're fortunate that your pH isn't 8.3, as you 0.25 ammonia level would be lethal at 82 o. Any lowering of your pH would help the situation for your fish whenever the ammonia reaches o.25 again. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a little? > I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other dangers involved? > > Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like to dismiss that option. > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53050	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Kai, It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high. Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place. My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground. After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6. If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > ~Kai > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53051	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

John, While I can't prove it, the consensus seems to be that once the carbon has become saturated with impurities, it will start to leach them back out -- just as I see you're stating. Whether or not this is set in stone, it wouldn't seem prudent to leave the carbon in the filter long-term under these circumstances. Why take a chance of your water becoming uninhabitable. While it's in use, it will colonize nitrifying bacteria populations; there's no reason to believe it wouldn't. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the > filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then it > really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your > electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins in > the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out > regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back into > the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water > then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have > the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need for > the eco system to run smoothly. > > The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as > inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of > your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also > if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out > that would be good too. > > Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was > meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll & > the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for > stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not containing > any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can > use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal > clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it disintegrates > after a while. > > The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they > come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut to > size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they > are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery > sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & may > also be made of unsuitable materials. > > Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I just > > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it continues > > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active carbon > > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon properties > > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure the > > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the bio > > filter... > > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining chemicals in > > the foam that might leak out? > > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53052	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

I would not change the pH of your aquarium by very much. a difference of pH 0.2 would be all that would be practical, as as more would cause a larger pH bounce every time you do a PWC. As it is, it appears you should make smaller but more frequent WC's. As mentioned, distilled water would seem to be the way to go as it's extremely controllable, whereas the effects of driftwood would continually be unexpected as you seem to realize. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the gases are gone again. > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > Any additional info very welcome :) > Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53053	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

The term, "African Cichlids" seems to be what is referred to most by hobbyists, when they mean Rift Lake Cichlids. Perhaps the latter term is just too long to say (?). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > Gotcha... maybe it's because I'm exposed within my local fish club (150 strong) of 90% that keep the cichlids of the 3 big lakes.. Bill in Va.  > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? > > >   > Bill, > > Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). > > There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > > > > Bill in Va. > >   > > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > > ideal for all of them. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@ > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > > twice a week. > > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > > clean them for spiders. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > > have you added? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53054	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Bill, Yeah, I kinda figured you'd come up with the large number of hard/water/high pH Cichlids once I mentioned the dozens of West African Cichlids. As far as I know, and even though there are new West African Cichlids still being discoved, I doubt they would number into the hundreds. I find that 95% figure very interesting though, but I know that the Rift Lake Cichlids are still extremely popular, so I guess it shouldn't be too surprising. I just didn't think it was quite that much vs the soft/low pH riverine Cichlids. Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , high PH African's, that ya can't defend.  Just for hit's and grins, I did a google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: > http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221%c3%82%c2%a0   (while I don't agree with it.. it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores will require hard and high water) > > Or here is cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.php > > Later, Bill in Va.  > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood? > > >   > Bill, > > Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). > > There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, Kribensis and dozens more). > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > > > > Bill in Va. > >   > > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > > ideal for all of them. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@ > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters rather > > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area with > > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as you. > > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > > twice a week. > > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too low. > > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > > clean them for spiders. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > > have you added? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53055	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

A pair of Neolamprologus brichardi might be suitable for a ten, but that would be about it. Even then, the 10 would be maxed out; the fish would really be better off in a 15 to 20 gallon. I'm wondering about one of the Tanganyika Goby Cichlids, like Eretmodus. Provided they're compatable they should be alright in a ten as they don't get too big. Some of the Julies would "fit" as there are a few which don't get very big, but they all enjoy more room. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Can anyone think of an African that would prefer the pH=8.2 and 10G tank > that Nora is asking about other than a few of the shellies? > > > > I couldn't, but maybe I'm too used to the more common ones and the > Malawi-Victoria-Tanganyika ones. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > > > Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater > African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , > high PH African's, that ya can't defend. Just for hit's and grins, I did a > google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: > http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221 (while I don't agree with it.. > it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores > will require hard and high water) > > Or here is > cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.p > hp > > Later, Bill in Va. > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > driftwood? > > > > Bill, > > Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify > what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that > continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the > major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift > Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying > vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert > etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water > parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). > > There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal > River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, > Kribensis and dozens more). > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those > are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... > Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these > three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > > > > Bill in Va. > >  > > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > > ideal for all of them. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@ > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters > rather > > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area > with > > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as > you. > > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > > twice a week. > > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too > low. > > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > > clean them for spiders. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > > have you added? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53056	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Bad form

It is considered bad form to advertise a group without first asking permission from the owner or moderator. To date anyone who asked that was not running a business was always granted the ability to promote their group. Someone tonight went too far and abused that. Please ask the moderators or owner before promoting a group. -Mike, a moderator

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53057	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@...> wrote: > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53058	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Thanks to everyone for the Cichlid discussion for our 10 G. I appreciate the advice for the future if we should consider refilling the tank from scratch. Right now it is filled and I strongly hope that our current fish will last .... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > A pair of Neolamprologus brichardi might be suitable for a ten, but that would be about it. Even then, the 10 would be maxed out; the fish would really be better off in a 15 to 20 gallon. I'm wondering about one of the Tanganyika Goby Cichlids, like Eretmodus. Provided they're compatable they should be alright in a ten as they don't get too big. Some of the Julies would "fit" as there are a few which don't get very big, but they all enjoy more room. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Can anyone think of an African that would prefer the pH=8.2 and 10G tank > > that Nora is asking about other than a few of the shellies? > > > > > > > > I couldn't, but maybe I'm too used to the more common ones and the > > Malawi-Victoria-Tanganyika ones. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Bill > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater > > African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , > > high PH African's, that ya can't defend. Just for hit's and grins, I did a > > google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: > > http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221 (while I don't agree with it.. > > it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores > > will require hard and high water) > > > > Or here is > > cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.p > > hp > > > > Later, Bill in Va. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@ > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify > > what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that > > continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the > > major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift > > Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying > > vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert > > etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water > > parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). > > > > There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal > > River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, > > Kribensis and dozens more). > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those > > are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... > > Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these > > three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > > > > > > > Bill in Va. > > >  > > > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > > > > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > > > ideal for all of them. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > > Behalf Of Bill > > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@ > > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > > > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > > > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > Behalf Of Bill > > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters > > rather > > > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > > > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > > > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area > > with > > > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as > > you. > > > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > > > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > > > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > > > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > > > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > > > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > > > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > > > twice a week. > > > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > > > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > > > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > > > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > > > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > > > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too > > low. > > > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > > > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > > > clean them for spiders. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > > > have you added? > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53059	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

19 of your tanks....? May I ask how many you have in total? Are you working professionally with fish or as a hobby? Just being curious :) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@> wrote: > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53060	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hi Bill, I can't say that I understand what you're talking about here. Hopefully, you can enlighten me. The only other use of the term "nit-pick" that I noticed you used was to me when I questioned that 90% of all fish sold in pet shops were hard water and high pH requiring fishes, which you changed to 95%. At first, I read that as meaning the Cichlids of Africa -- riverine Cichlids vs Rift Lake Cichlids,but then in going back and reading it a second time, I see that you said 95% of ALL fish sold in stores. To this, while we're on the subject, I have to say that this is fasr from accurate as there are just as many thousands of fishes sold in stores that require soft and somewhat acid water. We need to consider not only all the fishes in the African rivers and streams, but all the thousands of species from South America and Asia which come from soft, acid water. Except for the Rift Lake Cichlids though, most other fishes -- whether coming from hard or soft water, or high or low pH, will adapt to differing conditions other than what they came from, so it's all immaterial anyway. Now, as far as the latest post from NA, as I see, it merely asks about whether 4 Angelfish plus several groups of small fish would be suitable for A 75 gallon tank. I see nothing there that would indate nit-picking, but perhaps there's something I'm missing here. Likewise, I don't see where I was nit-picking in the post of mine that you replied to as such. I don't see anyone on here trying to "one-upmanship" anyone else here either, so I don't know what you're referring to. In reading most all of the posts, I only see questions and information being asked for, along with very helpful and informative replies, all of which have been given with the goodness of much time and effort on the part of those who supplied the asked for info, including my own responses. If there's something you don't understand about all of our members supplying this info out of the goodness of their hearts in efforts to help others, please feel free to ask (or am I missing something again? As I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.) Where did all this come from??? And BTW, us mods are busier than you could ever realize. Just ask Amber, who I can see is really on top of things, and Mike, and Harry. There is always something going on behind the scenes, to keep this cite as great as it is -- from reviewing and approving various messages for posting, to deleting loads of spam and removing/banning these would-be spammers which we need to deal with just about every day, often several times a day. Now, I'm not calling you to task, nor am I upset with any of this, but I just don't know where you're coming from when you're saying this. As far as I'm aware -- while it may not appear so to you for reasons unknown -- we're all here to help each other. Otherwise, we don't need to spend all the time that we do if we didn't feel it was all helpful. Again, please clarify as I feel I must be missing something, since I don't see this picture anyways near what you're seeming to paint. Best of luck with your new fish group. Best regards, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > To all:... I posted earlier about some of the nit-picking going on with this site.  The latest post from NA or whatever just kinda supports my position.  Now I suggest ya all sit back and ask yourselves. "Am I in this to help others or to bolster my ego by showing my knowledge and trying to "one-upmanship" the  other "guru's" on here"... > As stated, I'm a moderator on a relatively new fish group based in Richmond, Va.  One year, over 150 members.  We don't have presidents, vice's, or anything other like that.. Just hobby'st looking for advice or looking to offer advice.  If I were a mod of this group, I'da been busier than a "one-legged man in an a$$ kicking contest"... Good luck going forward. > Bill McDonald > Richmond, Va.  > > > ________________________________ > From: Jamie arthur <specialname76@...> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. > > >   > Nevermind, I will just keep to myself like usual. I rehomed them, added a heater and know that strip are not accurate. Well guess I will unjoin ever better. bye. I asked about picking a mix of fish not to be picked apart.. > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:48 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. > > >   > Hi NA, > > The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously > with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where > your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 5 February 2012 20:24, NA <specialname76@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a > > mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. > > According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test > > kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a > > heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get > > things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water > > from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53061	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly?

Bill, Thanks for the kind words, they're really appreciated. Seems like a stark difference from the nit-picking accusations however, which is very refreshing to see, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill <williemcd@...> wrote: > > Great post. Bill in Va.  > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: how to treat internal parasites in molly? > > >   > Not having had the opportunity to get up on line for the past several days, I'll reply to those messages which I see need attending to, either to support and clarify what has been offered or to show the errors of what has been brought forth. > > While I've read most of the posts, I might have missed a few, but to start here -- even if this was covered (which I'll address separately if needed to) -- most often when stringy white waste appears hanging from the belly, it could very well be an indication of parasite being present in the digestive system. This white matter is generally the result of some of the cells of the linings of the stomach and/or the intestine, depending upon how far advanced the parasite is. While this manifestation may not necessarily be from parasites all the time, when it is seen, it's prudent to assume it could be and it should be addressed accordingly, along with the way the fish is behaving. > > When such parasites do occur, the affected fish generally loses it's appetite, so offering medicated food is often useless. If the fish is still eating, ingestion of the proper medication as part of the food is the best way to effect a cure. If the fish refuses to eat, medication must be administered via the water column. Salt (NaCl) does nothing to aid in this treatment, although when caught early, Epsom salt will help clean the digestive system and at the same time eliminate many of the parasites adhering to the stomach lining, but while this will help it will not cure the fish in itself. It will help promote an easier cure though, along with the medication. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > my white molly has some white waste hanging from the belly... could that be parasites? > > Do higher salt concentrations in the water help with internal parasites too or would I need to treat with medicated food? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53062	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Bad form

Thanks for the reminder, Mike. Let's hope in the future that the members will follow this. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > It is considered bad form to advertise a group without first asking > permission from the owner or moderator. To date anyone who asked that > was not running a business was always granted the ability to promote > their group. > > Someone tonight went too far and abused that. > > Please ask the moderators or owner before promoting a group. > > -Mike, a moderator >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53063	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

Nora, You're extremely welcome; I sincerely hope we were able to help you out. Please keep us informed on the progress of your fish, and feel free to ask anything else you need answered. Our only goal is to help you succeed -- if we possibly can (even if we're not always lucky at it). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for the Cichlid discussion for our 10 G. > I appreciate the advice for the future if we should consider refilling the tank from scratch. Right now it is filled and I strongly hope that our current fish will last .... > > Thanks, > Nora > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > A pair of Neolamprologus brichardi might be suitable for a ten, but that would be about it. Even then, the 10 would be maxed out; the fish would really be better off in a 15 to 20 gallon. I'm wondering about one of the Tanganyika Goby Cichlids, like Eretmodus. Provided they're compatable they should be alright in a ten as they don't get too big. Some of the Julies would "fit" as there are a few which don't get very big, but they all enjoy more room. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > Can anyone think of an African that would prefer the pH=8.2 and 10G tank > > > that Nora is asking about other than a few of the shellies? > > > > > > > > > > > > I couldn't, but maybe I'm too used to the more common ones and the > > > Malawi-Victoria-Tanganyika ones. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Bill > > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 2:56 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray.. ya can nitpick all ya want and state there are dozens of softwater > > > African cichlids.. granted.. but compared to the thousands of HARD water , > > > high PH African's, that ya can't defend. Just for hit's and grins, I did a > > > google search on African cichlids and softwater... Interesting replies: > > > http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2112221 (while I don't agree with it.. > > > it's pretty much a given that 95% or more that we find in the fish stores > > > will require hard and high water) > > > > > > Or here is > > > cichlid-forum...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/why_african_cichlids.p > > > hp > > > > > > Later, Bill in Va. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@ > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 2:15 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Probably clearer if you just say "Rift Lake Cichlids." That would clarify > > > what you're talking about. "African Cichlids" covers all Cichlids from that > > > continent, whether they're from the East African Great Lakes or from the > > > major West African rivers. Lake Victoria would not be included as a Rift > > > Lake, the same as any satellite lake of Lake Victoria in the outlying > > > vicinity would not be one -- such as Lake Edward, Lake Kivu, Lake Albert > > > etc, some of which connect to Lake Victoria (and have similar water > > > parameters, like a pH of 7.6; not all that high). > > > > > > There are plenty of soft-water-requiring Congo, Niger, Volta and Senegal > > > River Basin Cichlids from West Afica (including the Jewel Cichlids, > > > Kribensis and dozens more). > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The dominate fishes seen in the market are the Big Lake Africans.  Those > > > are what I was suggesting.  I guess I should have been more specific... > > > Lake Malawi, Lake Victoria and  Lake Tanganyika.  It's my guess that these > > > three lakes make up 90% of the African cichlids sold in the US. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill in Va. > > > >  > > > > The part where you said they prefer the higher pH. : ) > > > > > > > > Some of the other Africans are from rivers and ponds. 8.2 would not be > > > > ideal for all of them. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Bill > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:35 AM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > Donna.. where did I specify the Rift lake region? > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@ > > > > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:14 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > There are not a lot of African cichlids from the Rift Lakes (the ones that > > > > like ther higher pH) that are a good fit for a 10G tank. Even many of the > > > > shellies prefer a larger tank. You could do a pair of brevis though. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > > > On > > > > Behalf Of Bill > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 9:17 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > I agree with Amber.. work with your current existing water parameters > > > rather > > > > than against them. You could look into African cichlids as they do > > > > appreciate higher PH and harder water!.. My friend has the exact opposite > > > > (?) problem from yours. He's a Lake Vic freak and is moving to an area > > > with > > > > super soft water!.. So, he'll be fighting somewhat of the same fight as > > > you. > > > > Leaves.. yes.. dried and brown leaves. As they decompose the soften the > > > > water and lower the PH. You can buy almond leaves online that do the same > > > > thing but I'm just cheap and harvest from the woods. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 12:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > Trying to change your pH is often very time consuming. It would be safer > > > > and less troublesome if you just purchase fish that prefer a higher pH > > > > range (and there are plenty of them out there). Just do smaller water > > > > changes so that you don't change the pH too much temporarily until the > > > > CO2 out gasses from your fresh water. I'd recommend 10% water changes > > > > twice a week. > > > > If I remember correctly you have a 10 gallon tank? If that's the case > > > > it's actually more dangerous to try messing with your pH in such a small > > > > tank, the more water the more stable your tank parameters will be. That > > > > little of water volume the tank is more likely to fluctuate if you add > > > > things like dried oak leaves or driftwood, so you will have to keep a > > > > close eye on the pH and remove the leaves/driftwood if the pH goes too > > > low. > > > > I believe you're supposed to use oak leaves that are no longer attached > > > > to the tree (ones that have fallen on the ground), but make sure to > > > > clean them for spiders. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 2/4/2012 6:33 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ah interesting! Do you know if any type of oak leaves works? We have a > > > > > lot of california live oaks here. How far does it lower the ph and how > > > > > often do you have to put fresh leaves in (green leaves directly from > > > > > the branches?) Are the fish eating them too? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill <williemcd@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen ph change by itself but I'll take your word for > > > > > it!... A natural way to lower ph?. adding the drift wood or... I go > > > > > out to my chem-free back yard and collect a half dozen oak leaves, > > > > > band the stems together and stick the stems in the substrate. Or you > > > > > can order almond leaves online.. Bill in Va. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 12:23 AM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using > > > > > driftwood? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > Hi Kai and everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > I had discussed the issue of the changing pH a while ago on this > > > > > forum. The mystery was originally that the pH in the aquarium was > > > > > around 8 and the pH from the fresh tap water around 7. > > > > > > As it turned out, by letting the clean fresh water sit in a > > > > > container overnight the pH had turned to 8 ("by itself"). It seems CO2 > > > > > (or maybe other gases too?) are dissolved in the fresh tap water and > > > > > evaporate over the hours, changing the PH. > > > > > > Also my recently set up hospital tank has a pH around 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > But that means every time I perform a partial water change with > > > > > fresh tap water I lower the pH in the aquarium temporarily until the > > > > > gases are gone again. > > > > > > > > > > > > So I wonder if I should add some driftwood to lower the pH in a > > > > > "natural" stable way. I would not use artificial chemicals because > > > > > that seems to be problematic and a potential trouble source. The > > > > > driftwood leaks out a substance slowly that causes a slightly lower pH > > > > > and softer water. But I am not sure yet about any downsides? > > > > > > > > > > > > Any additional info very welcome :) > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by > > > > > itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 > > > > > hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What > > > > > do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other > > > > > rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations > > > > > have you added? > > > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water > > > > > stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT > > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53064	From: Kevin Mintmier	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Easiest way go to fosters and smith live aquaria and look at the compatability chart they have all the information on a lot of fish ________________________________ From: Bill <williemcd@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish.   To all:... I posted earlier about some of the nit-picking going on with this site. ﾂ�The latest post from NA or whatever just kinda supports my position. ﾂ�Now I suggest ya all sit back and ask yourselves. "Am I in this to help others or to bolster my ego by showing my knowledge and trying to "one-upmanship" the ﾂ�other "guru's" on here"... As stated, I'm a moderator on a relatively new fish group based in Richmond, Va. ﾂ�One year, over 150 members. ﾂ�We don't have presidents, vice's, or anything other like that.. Just hobby'st looking for advice or looking to offer advice. ﾂ�If I were a mod of this group, I'da been busier than a "one-legged man in an a$$ kicking contest"... Good luck going forward. Bill McDonald Richmond, Va.ﾂ� ________________________________ From: Jamie arthur <specialname76@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. ﾂ� Nevermind, I will just keep to myself like usual. I rehomed them, added a heater and know that strip are not accurate. Well guess I will unjoin ever better. bye. I asked about picking a mix of fish not to be picked apart.. ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Picking out fish. ﾃつ� Hi NA, The test strips are notoriously inaccurate so you will benefit enormously with a Master Test Kit. What is the ambient temperature in the room where your tank is? I am wondering why you are using a heater with Goldfish? John*<o)))< * On 5 February 2012 20:24, NA <specialname76@...> wrote: > ** > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a > mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. > According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test > kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a > heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get > things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water > from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53065	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hey Ray- That's OLD school! WhoHooooo! I love it! Chris ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Kai, It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high.  Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place.  My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground.  After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6.  If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. Ray  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53066	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph - using driftwood?

<cracking up> I guess I'm supposed to be on the short bus Ray- I  had the critters for 20 years or better and only knew them as Lake Tanganikan Cichilds ( had yella Labs - it's one of the tanks I did away with ). First time I heard of Rift Lake Cichilds was on this forum. I guess since I got internet, I never had to look up anything about them. So, I learned a new thing here. Rift Lake Cichlids sounds kinda cool at that.... Chris ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> The term, "African Cichlids" seems to be what is referred to most by hobbyists, when they mean Rift Lake Cichlids.  Perhaps the latter term is just too long to say (?). Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53067	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hi Amber- I wasn't knocking John or anybody else for that matter- just pointing out that it was misread is all. I am as human as you are. Just as subject to making a mistake. There is no need to defend if not being attacked. Sometimes, emails just don't carry the "tone" that we are trying to convey.   I hear ya- many, many times, newbies don't know the correct info to give in order to get the info they need back. Maybe a newbie packet is in order to explain this? Sometimes, it's hard for folks that have been in the hobby for a long time to remember the way it was for them in the beginning. How we didn't know how to ask the right question or what info to give to receive what we needed to know. Understandable and 'curable' if they are told that they need to give certain info basics up front in order to get what they need to help. Maybe there IS one, and I missed it?   Wow- this thread kinda turned into a bit of a bugger , didn't it? Chris ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> I was just as confused as John was, and neither of us were picking on anyone, only clarifying what we weren't sure about. If the person can't handle questions then this is not the group for them. We often have to ask more questions to give the proper answers. Amber On 2/5/2012 3:57 PM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > I believe if you re-read the post John, you will see that they > indicated that it had previously had goldfish and the heater was then > added on for these fish. > Specialname- I think you are doing the right thing to go slow and make > the gradual changes. Angels can be a bit ticky if these are your first > go-'round with fish other than Goldfish. If it were me, I'd start with > a coupla Tetras and slowly add to the tank with time. I would only add > 1-2 fish at a time and minimum of 3-5 week intervals. Inspect the fish > at the store for health before purchase. Acclimate slowly and if you > don't know how- ask. Anticipation is half the fun- go slow and avoid > newbie mistakes. > Wish you the best- Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53068	From: Ray	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

I have about 90 tanks in my hatchery. These 19 tanks are set up for pairing off Angels for obtaining breeding pairs. This is strictly a hobby for me, although I naturally have to sell off excess fish that I raise, to the local pet shops, or else I'd soon be s o o o overloaded with fish. Been in this hobby for 64 years so far. I no longer work with fish professionally, but used to have my own aquarium store and also imported fish from Africa and Germany to distribute across the country. I was in partners also, in a Rift Lake Cichlid wholesale business. Got to know many great people who were catching and exporting the fish to us. Even got to go to Lake Victoria to instruct the fishermen on what to catch, as in the beginning they were sending us only all males. This may sound like a lot of tanks to some people, but the hobby here on the East Coast is big! I know other hobbyists who have up to 150 tanks, a few of them world-renown hobbyists. Many of my friends have similar numbers of tanks, it's like, the norm! Then too, 90 tanks may not sound like very many to some other people, but many of them are large -- averaging about 50 gallon (with some 125 to 150 gallons and others 20 to 30 gallons) -- so there's a total of about 3200 gallons in all the tanks. There's a guy I know on the other side of the state who has 10,000 gallons in his tanks -- his place is hugh, and so are his tanks. Thanks for asking. Perhaps you might have this many tanks (or more?) sometime. It's work, but it's lots of fun < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > 19 of your tanks....? May I ask how many you have in total? Are you working professionally with fish or as a hobby? > > Just being curious :) > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@> wrote: > > > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53069	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/5/2012
Subject: trying to clarify details.....

Hi Ray, first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just read from you! I included an update about the mollies. I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... - about hospital tanks: with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? What is a good practice to ensure water quality? Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so quickly at this pH? - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to it? We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that filtration would not catch? - fish sickness: I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were actually exposed to. Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are not completely clear. In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and started eating again. Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might be the case... Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the pH unstable? Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) All infos are very appreciated, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > To summarize: > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > My questions: > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53070	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

wow, that is amazing....! I can hardly imagine how much space is necessary for 90 tanks :) But I can imagine how beautiful they must look! I am not surprised you have so much detailed knowledge ... I wish we had a bigger tank but my husband is already afraid that it will be hard to stop me once I would start adding ;) Thanks for the infos!! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I have about 90 tanks in my hatchery. These 19 tanks are set up for pairing off Angels for obtaining breeding pairs. This is strictly a hobby for me, although I naturally have to sell off excess fish that I raise, to the local pet shops, or else I'd soon be s o o o overloaded with fish. Been in this hobby for 64 years so far. I no longer work with fish professionally, but used to have my own aquarium store and also imported fish from Africa and Germany to distribute across the country. I was in partners also, in a Rift Lake Cichlid wholesale business. Got to know many great people who were catching and exporting the fish to us. Even got to go to Lake Victoria to instruct the fishermen on what to catch, as in the beginning they were sending us only all males. > > This may sound like a lot of tanks to some people, but the hobby here on the East Coast is big! I know other hobbyists who have up to 150 tanks, a few of them world-renown hobbyists. Many of my friends have similar numbers of tanks, it's like, the norm! Then too, 90 tanks may not sound like very many to some other people, but many of them are large -- averaging about 50 gallon (with some 125 to 150 gallons and others 20 to 30 gallons) -- so there's a total of about 3200 gallons in all the tanks. There's a guy I know on the other side of the state who has 10,000 gallons in his tanks -- his place is hugh, and so are his tanks. > > Thanks for asking. Perhaps you might have this many tanks (or more?) sometime. It's work, but it's lots of fun < g >. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > 19 of your tanks....? May I ask how many you have in total? Are you working professionally with fish or as a hobby? > > > > Just being curious :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53071	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

oh, just to mention something that I just realized about ammonia in our tank... what probably helped our fish in the original tank despite the high pH of our tap water (at least high after out gassing the Co2) is that I did so many partial water changes initially that I would guess most of the time the pH of the water was significantly lower that 8.2. and the ammonia less toxic. Which means I probably should perform now daily water changes in the hospital until I am sure again about the ammonia concentration in it?! Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > - about hospital tanks: > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so quickly at this pH? > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to it? > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that filtration would not catch? > > - fish sickness: > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were actually exposed to. > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are not completely clear. > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and started eating again. > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the pH unstable? > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > All infos are very appreciated, > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > My questions: > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53072	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Non-neutral water could/will drift toward neutral but neutral water wouldn't change without some sort of outside influence. Another way to find the culprit is to remove a handful of substrate (or whatever else Nora might suspect) and put it into a bowl with neutral tap water, then test the water in the bowl in a day or two. Start with anything that's coral, shell or marble. ~Kai > Ray wrote: > > Kai, > > It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high. Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place. My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground. After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6. If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. > > Ray > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53073	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Dang Ray! I thought I was crazy for having as many as I did!  You are the new poster child for " See honey, I don't have THAT many tanks "! Chris ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> I have about 90 tanks in my hatchery.  These 19 tanks are set up for pairing off Angels for obtaining breeding pairs.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53074	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hi Kai, Our tap water is only neutral fresh out of the pipes. When I let it stand in a clean container for 24 hours it had the same pH as the aquarium: around 8.2 . So it fits that the aquariums have the same pH... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Non-neutral water could/will drift toward neutral but neutral water wouldn't change without some sort of outside influence. > > Another way to find the culprit is to remove a handful of substrate (or whatever else Nora might suspect) and put it into a bowl with neutral tap water, then test the water in the bowl in a day or two. > > Start with anything that's coral, shell or marble. > ~Kai > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > Kai, > > > > It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high. Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place. My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground. After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6. If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53075	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/6/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hi again, I am afraid an R/O unit outgrows our "aquarium-budget" but how about peat filtration. Is it the same effect like driftwood? An acid leaking slowly into the water? I am a little hesitant to go with distilled water because I like the option of doing water changes whenever necessary (without needing gallons of special water stored). Also, is there no danger of depriving the fish of some essential minerals in the water? Or did you mean to only supplement the normal water like half/half? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I thought I had read that your pH was high -- after the CO2 outgassed -- and I see now where I read this. I don't know if you care to go to the expense, but you could get an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit which will give you pure water with no minerals in it. By mixing a portion of this water with your tap water, you'll greatly reduce the carbonate hardness (KH) of the water which should bring your pH down naturally. Barring this route, you could use distilled water if you can be assured that copper piping was not used in the process. > > Getting back to your ammonia, it starts getting toxic with your pH 8.2, at 76 o. You're fortunate that your pH isn't 8.3, as you 0.25 ammonia level would be lethal at 82 o. Any lowering of your pH would help the situation for your fish whenever the ammonia reaches o.25 again. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a little? > > I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other dangers involved? > > > > Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like to dismiss that option. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

The minerals, to some extent, are what is making the pH be 8.2 so you WANT to provide less. Your water has mineral overkill for your particular fish. Peat and driftwood will have an impact, but so small as to be almost a waste of time. RO water or distilled water are the things that will actually accomplish the goal. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph Hi again, I am afraid an R/O unit outgrows our "aquarium-budget" but how about peat filtration. Is it the same effect like driftwood? An acid leaking slowly into the water? I am a little hesitant to go with distilled water because I like the option of doing water changes whenever necessary (without needing gallons of special water stored). Also, is there no danger of depriving the fish of some essential minerals in the water? Or did you mean to only supplement the normal water like half/half? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I thought I had read that your pH was high -- after the CO2 outgassed -- and I see now where I read this. I don't know if you care to go to the expense, but you could get an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit which will give you pure water with no minerals in it. By mixing a portion of this water with your tap water, you'll greatly reduce the carbonate hardness (KH) of the water which should bring your pH down naturally. Barring this route, you could use distilled water if you can be assured that copper piping was not used in the process. > > Getting back to your ammonia, it starts getting toxic with your pH 8.2, at 76 o. You're fortunate that your pH isn't 8.3, as you 0.25 ammonia level would be lethal at 82 o. Any lowering of your pH would help the situation for your fish whenever the ammonia reaches o.25 again. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a little? > > I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other dangers involved? > > > > Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like to dismiss that option. > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53077	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: Next Step : Planning a pond for my koi (Input needed!)

Hi Desire' Nice to hear from you again & happy to hear that Elle is doing well, you are doing a great job there! Spooks & Ginger will be very welcome company for Elle & the temporary set up sounds like it is running really well. Regarding their transfer to the 140 gallon temporary outside pond I would wait until the temperature has warmed up sufficiently to be stable as the last thing you need is for fluctuations which can cause problems. I don't know how much room you have indoors where they are at the moment but I'm wondering if you could fit a pond filter there? If so then how about getting a filter suitable for your proposed 3,400 gallon pond & running your tank with it? You can never over-filter Carps & it would be cycled ready-you could also then use it on your temporary outdoor pond come the good weather so no need for any cycling problems. If this is an option then run it alongside your present filter & that will seed it in a few weeks. The only drawbacks to this might be the noise & also siting it higher because if you use a gravity filter then it will have to be sited above the level of the tank. If this is not an option then how about using the filter you buy for the big pond on the temporary pond? When you transfer the fish from the tank just think of it as a large water change & put the media from the indoor filter into the new one so you will have the good bacteria already working. Yes-you can use the same test kit anywhere. I can't really give you any specific advice regarding types & makes of filters or pond liners because I think you have different stuff in the US to that here in the UK but have a look at this page & click through the menu on the left & that should give you plenty of of ideas to be going on with: http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/ponds/pond_design.html 3 feet deep is fine, go a little deeper in the middle if you like A few general points-once you have made the hole line it either with sand or old carpet to ensure there is nothing sharp that might damage it. As you are filling the pond let the water pull the liner in & any folds that appear due to the irregular shape then fold the crease away from the main point of viewing. Another idea to consider is having a raised pond-that is to say you dig out a rectangular shape say 2 feet deep, then fix sturdy timbers such as old railway sleepers around the hole to a height of another 2 feet, then you line it all & you have a pond 4 feet deep with the bonus of being able ot sit all around the edge. Following on from this if you really want to go to town then you could even have a roof over it! Personally I would not use a bottom drain on tanks or ponds simply because of safety for the fish-the weak spot on any system is the joints & if you do get a problem then you risk loosing all your fish if the drain is at the lowest point. A good pump sited on a couple of breeze blocks or bricks at the lowest part of the pond is fine & is also fail-safe. If your plumbing fails & the pumps continue to pump water there will still be several inches of water left at the bottom which should be enough to ensure the survival of your fish until help arrives. Still on the subject of safety the netting over the top is absolutely vital. Just some thoughts & ideas-the You will probably have lots of questions so let us know what you think. John*<o)))<* On 5 February 2012 02:21, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Good to hear Elle is doing great and has company. I've never built my > own pond, but I did some googling and found a site about building your > own Koi pond and guidelines to follow. Hopefully it will help you out. > > http://www.koifishponds.com/building.htm > > Amber > > On 2/4/2012 9:43 AM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I wrote about 3 months ago about housing my koi fish (Elle) inside for > > the winter since her outside pond wouldn't be adequate for winter > > housing. I really appreciate the advice and help everyone gave about > > getting her water levels adjusted, and just info in general. > > > > I thought I'd provide an update so you guys can know how Elle is > > fairing. Her water levels have remained at zero for ammonia and > > nitrite and her nitrate levels stay at 10-20 ppm. The water > > temperature stays constantly at 72 degrees, and I have no way of > > moving her aquarium to a 'cooler' room of the house. She seems to be > > content and not stressed. I do (2) 25 percent water changes each week. > > This has helped the water levels stay healthy. In addition, I also > > added two small koi for Elle to have company - Spooks and Ginger. I > > didn't want to get anymore than that for fear of overstocking. Since > > the addition of the two new fish though, the water levels, as I've > > said, are staying well within the acceptable parameters. Elle loves > > the company! > > > > Now that Spring is almost among us (or here for some of us, although > > not officially...it feels like its here in South Louisiana now > > though..everyone is planting gardens already!), the next step is to > > prepare a suitable pond for Elle and company. My plans, as of this > > time, are to house Elle and company TEMPORARILY in the 140 gallon pond > > come next month. I will need advice on how to transition them back to > > outside- what to do about cycling it to prep them for this, etc. I > > don't plan to leave them in there for very long. Could I use the same > > test kit once they are in the pond? > > > > I'd also like advice on where I can get a pond liner, and pump/filter > > for the bigger pond I want to get done for them this spring. I'm > > hoping to do it as inexpensively as possible (I'd like to set my > > budget at $1,000 for this project if at all possible...and this is > > without me having doing any estimating yet..it will likely be over > > some) yet built the best way possible, using quality products. What > > kind of pond liner and pump would one recommend? And what size pond is > > recommended for 3 koi fish? I know bigger is usually better or the > > most expensive one you can afford (at least in the case of bird cages! > > I have parrots). I was thinking about a pond 3 feet deep ( with our > > somewhat mild winters, I thought this depth would suffice..I know its > > probably the minimum..I don't want something very deep though) and > > 3400 gallons. What dimensions would the pond have to be to get this > > amountT? And how many fish would I be able to keep in this size pond? > > I'd like a few more to have a small school of fish. I have a spot > > pretty much picked out..our backyard is small and has a huge deck, so > > I was thining of putting it in our side yard, near the deck. Next to > > our fence is a low lying area...would a few feet away from that be > > okay to put a pond? Could we add more dirt to build it up some before > > digging the pond? My dad has an excavator and so digging the pond > > should not be too labor intense. I just want to make sure we go about > > it the right way to begin with, thus saving major problems later on? > > When it is set up, would I add water from their smaller pond in there > > as well? And I have read that its recommended to put a bottom drain in > > the pond? Should the location of the pond be in a somewhat shaded > > area? This is a problem if so. Most of our property gets part to full > > sun....The front of our home (facing south) gets shade in the middle > > of the day but we want the pond to be somewhwere where we can enjoy it > > more..we rarely sit on our front porch. The back deck gets a lot of > > usage so that is why I wanted to see about situating it near the deck, > > if possible. Our backyard is small and basically made up of all deck > > minus a small strip of grass just big enough for the lawn mowever to > > pass between the deck and wooden fence. > > > > Sorry for all the jumbled up thoughts and questions. This is so very > > new to me and I have a lot to learn about ponds- well, doing them > > correctly! Oh and while they are in the smaller pond, I do plan to put > > netting over the top to protect them from predators. I Know this was a > > concern when I mentioned my preformed pond was not very deep. As I've > > said, their staying in the smaller pond is a very temporarily thing > > while I get the finances together to get the pond dug (I have a > > beautiful stainless steel bird cage I'm going to sell to help fund the > > project, to cut down on out of pocket expense) and get the pond > > completed. This will take, I hope, no longer than two months. I want > > to get them in the bigger pond before the end of Spring. > > > > I DEEPLY appreciate any and all responses and will try to reply back > > in a timely manner. > > > > Desire' in Southwest Louisiana , where Spring is making its debut > already! > > Fish momma to the kois- Elle, Spooks and Ginger > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53078	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

You have magic water, Nora. :oP ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Kai, > > Our tap water is only neutral fresh out of the pipes. When I let it stand in a clean container for 24 hours it had the same pH as the aquarium: around 8.2 . > So it fits that the aquariums have the same pH... > > Thanks, Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Non-neutral water could/will drift toward neutral but neutral water wouldn't change without some sort of outside influence. > > > > Another way to find the culprit is to remove a handful of substrate (or whatever else Nora might suspect) and put it into a bowl with neutral tap water, then test the water in the bowl in a day or two. > > > > Start with anything that's coral, shell or marble. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high. Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place. My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground. After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6. If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53079	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

I agree. Rainwater will also work if it is otherwise safe. If you mix tap water with any of these "pure" waters, the GH of the resulting water will be reduced proportionally. Example, mixing half tap and half distilled will mean the resulting water mix will have one half the GH of the tap. Once you have the tank initially where you want it (GH and KH) the pH will correspond. Doing smaller volume water changes will affect the tank less, so rather than changing half the tank and having to prepare suitable water, change 1/4 of the tank. You need to experiment a bit with this to see how it affects the GH and pH. Slight changes are not detrimental, and the more stable the tank becomes the less it will be affected anyway. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > The minerals, to some extent, are what is making the pH be 8.2 so you WANT > to provide less. Your water has mineral overkill for your particular fish. > Peat and driftwood will have an impact, but so small as to be almost a waste > of time. RO water or distilled water are the things that will actually > accomplish the goal. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:42 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: softening the water, lowering Ph > > > > > > Hi again, > > I am afraid an R/O unit outgrows our "aquarium-budget" but how about peat > filtration. Is it the same effect like driftwood? An acid leaking slowly > into the water? > I am a little hesitant to go with distilled water because I like the option > of doing water changes whenever necessary (without needing gallons of > special water stored). > Also, is there no danger of depriving the fish of some essential minerals in > the water? Or did you mean to only supplement the normal water like > half/half? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > I thought I had read that your pH was high -- after the CO2 outgassed -- > and I see now where I read this. I don't know if you care to go to the > expense, but you could get an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit which will give you > pure water with no minerals in it. By mixing a portion of this water with > your tap water, you'll greatly reduce the carbonate hardness (KH) of the > water which should bring your pH down naturally. Barring this route, you > could use distilled water if you can be assured that copper piping was not > used in the process. > > > > Getting back to your ammonia, it starts getting toxic with your pH 8.2, at > 76 o. You're fortunate that your pH isn't 8.3, as you 0.25 ammonia level > would be lethal at 82 o. Any lowering of your pH would help the situation > for your fish whenever the ammonia reaches o.25 again. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for > 24 hours. Is there a natural way of lowering it and softening the water a > little? > > > I read about a moss and drift wood. Does it work or are there other > dangers involved? > > > > > > Using chemicals seem to make the water rather unstable so I would like > to dismiss that option. > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, so I wonder if every partial > water change might jump the Ph a little and stress the fish. I do not want > the let the water stay around for 24 hours for every PWC because I could not > guarantee that it stays as clean as it was .... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53080	From: Patrick	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Hi Nora, --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" wrote: > I am afraid an R/O unit outgrows our "aquarium-budget" but > how about peat filtration. Is it the same effect like driftwood? > An acid leaking slowly into the water? Peat works very well and there are a couple of ways you can use it. Usually setting up a separate peat system where you then use the peat filtered water in your water changes or actually adding peat directly to your aquarium's filtration system somewhere. I have used the separate system method for making peat water for small tanks. In my case I happened to have an old large hang on the back type power filter and some square shaped 4 gallon buckets. The square shape was key because I could hang the filter right on the bucket. I basically filled a large mesh bag with peat, probably about the size of a grapefruit and that simply sat in the filter. This was set up in the corner of my basement and would run all week. Come the weekend, I would simply siphon out whatever amount I needed into one-gallon jugs then refilled the peat bucket to let it run for another week. I would then use this peat water for water changes in my small tanks (e.g. 10 gallon tank). Every once in a while (a couple/few times a year) I would change out the peat. This could easily be setup with a spare 10 gallon tank and you don't even need a filter. You could simply put the bag directly in the tank "tea bag" style and run a cheap power head for circulation. Obviously the above method is only really suited for smaller tanks unless you want to be shlepping around lots of water in buckets and jugs to your larger tanks. So for larger tanks I suggest doing it directly on the tank. And I also suggest you might want to set up a independent filter for this leaving your regular filters the way they are unless you happen to be running a large canister filter and can spare a compartment for peat. The nice thing about this is you don't need a special or expensive filter. In fact, this is a task that is great for any old filter you might have stopped using and have tucked away somewhere. Like that one you stopped using because it uses expensive cartridges that were not very effective and nothing else would fit properly in the filter chamber. Those types of filters are great to simply hang on the tank and throw a bag of peat into them where it doesn't matter how well the water flow through the peat. As long as it is making contact with the water which is flowing past, it will work. > I am a little hesitant to go with distilled water because I like the option > of doing water changes whenever necessary (without needing gallons > of special water stored). Ya, with things like distilled and R/O water, you need to store a lot and like I mentioned above, for larger tanks this can be a bit of a pain if you are trying to change only 10% in a 75 gallon tank and have to haul around 7.5 gallons of water in buckets. And it certainly is much more expensive than a giant bundle of garden peat. :) > Also, is there no danger of depriving the fish of some essential > minerals in the water? Or did you mean to only supplement the > normal water like half/half? Yes, normally you don't use straight distilled or R/O water 100% all the time. Instead you would tend to mix it with your tap water. So half tap and half pure water will half your minerals and such resulting in softer water with a lower pH. You just have to work out the ratio of each to get where you want. Regards, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53081	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: carbon filter vs. sponges

Hi Ray, I bow to your superior knowledge! I didn't realise carbon could harbour much bacteria at all good or bad. John*<o)))<* On 6 February 2012 04:31, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > > While I can't prove it, the consensus seems to be that once the carbon has > become saturated with impurities, it will start to leach them back out -- > just as I see you're stating. Whether or not this is set in stone, it > wouldn't seem prudent to leave the carbon in the filter long-term under > these circumstances. Why take a chance of your water becoming > uninhabitable. While it's in use, it will colonize nitrifying bacteria > populations; there's no reason to believe it wouldn't. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > Just to clarify a few points-yes, you *can* leave the carbon in the > > filter-it won't do any harm but unless you have toxins in the water then > it > > really just be taking up valuable swimming space & using up your > > electricity bill for nothing. If you'd keep it in & if there are toxins > in > > the water then yes you will also have to change the carbon sponges out > > regularly as old carbon that has taken toxins out may leach them back > into > > the water once it is full but again if there is no toxins in the water > > then you are really wasting your time by using carbon as it does not have > > the capacity to grow large colonies of good bugs which is what you need > for > > the eco system to run smoothly. > > > > The old filter will likely be easy to adapt to use better media such as > > inert sponges & polyester foam=can you tell us the make & model number of > > your filter & I will have a look online & let you know what I think, also > > if you could post some photos of it & describe how you take the media out > > that would be good too. > > > > Sorry for any confusion but I wasn't referring to upholstery foam, I was > > meaning just the polyester foam/floss that usually comes on a large roll > & > > the upholstery store will cut you some off. The foam is what you use for > > stuffing pillows & soft toys but make sure that it is pure & not > containing > > any fire retardants which may be toxic to your fish. This is what you can > > use as a water polisher to ensure the water returns to the tank crystal > > clear & you will need to change this on a regular basis as it > disintegrates > > after a while. > > > > The permanent medias want to be sponges from your local fish store-they > > come in many shapes & sizes & also they come in blocks that you can cut > to > > size. These aquatic sponges differ from the upholstery ones in that they > > are open pore-the water can pass through then whereas the upholstery > > sponges are closed pore so far less effective for filtration purposes & > may > > also be made of unsuitable materials. > > > > Hope this is clear-let me know what you think. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 2 February 2012 01:59, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > thanks, that is interesting! That brings me to the question: could I > just > > > leave the carbon filter in indefinitely and just clean it so it > continues > > > to filter? As I understood it has to be exchanged because the active > carbon > > > is used up after a while. If I do not care for the active carbon > properties > > > anymore, is the old filter not as good as any as long as I can ensure > the > > > water throughput? Our carbon filter is probably twice the size of the > bio > > > filter... > > > With upholstery foam I would wonder if there are no remaining > chemicals in > > > the foam that might leak out? > > > What type of bio sponge should I get, is there only one type? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53082	From: Ray	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Hi Nora, In case you were looking forward to receiving a reply from me on this post (below) of yours, I just wanted you to know that I wrote you about 4 pages of info in detail, addressing every issue of your post -- BUT -- my computer dropped off line after typing all that on Sunday night, leaving me with nothing but a blank screen. It all disappeared in a flash, so, I started up my older computer which generally gives me no trouble (even though it's terribly slow) as I use it with Mozilla Firefox. After answering several other posts on other groups, I re-wrote my lengthy reply to you, best as I could remember it, getting done about 1:30 AM Monday morning. Then, when I hit Send, it gave me the message that it couldn't find the Server. I messed with it for about 1/2 hour trying to get it to send, and half-way through that, it got lost in the shuffle. No amount of fooling around with it could bring it back up let alone send it, so that was lost also. I just can't type all that detail all over again -- at least not as one piece. Nor will I try to include it on the Home Page or in the Archives/Site Messages, if I even try it again at all. If you want that stuff answered, you'd be better off asking in much smaller messages that I don't need to spend as much time on in one shot. It turned out to be just a colossal waste of time, sorry to say. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > - about hospital tanks: > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so quickly at this pH? > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to it? > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that filtration would not catch? > > - fish sickness: > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were actually exposed to. > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are not completely clear. > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and started eating again. > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the pH unstable? > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > All infos are very appreciated, > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > My questions: > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53083	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Hi Ray, How frustrating but I know exactly where you are coming from because I have been there many times. I know this isn't going to help you restore your painstaking work or Nora to get her info but what I do now when I am responding to an email & it is going to be more than just a few lines then I type it out in Notepad & copy & paste it when I am done. Additionally after every 3 or 4 paragraphs I save the partially message so far to my desktop so as I go along even if my computer crashes or I loose the connection I still have most of my work saved on my desktop. Hope this helps... John*<o)))<* On 7 February 2012 23:26, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Nora, > > In case you were looking forward to receiving a reply from me on this post > (below) of yours, I just wanted you to know that I wrote you about 4 pages > of info in detail, addressing every issue of your post -- BUT -- my > computer dropped off line after typing all that on Sunday night, leaving me > with nothing but a blank screen. It all disappeared in a flash, so, I > started up my older computer which generally gives me no trouble (even > though it's terribly slow) as I use it with Mozilla Firefox. After > answering several other posts on other groups, I re-wrote my lengthy reply > to you, best as I could remember it, getting done about 1:30 AM Monday > morning. Then, when I hit Send, it gave me the message that it couldn't > find the Server. I messed with it for about 1/2 hour trying to get it to > send, and half-way through that, it got lost in the shuffle. No amount of > fooling around with it could bring it back up let alone send it, so that > was lost also. I just can't type all that detail all over again -- at least > not as one piece. Nor will I try to include it on the Home Page or in the > Archives/Site Messages, if I even try it again at all. If you want that > stuff answered, you'd be better off asking in much smaller messages that I > don't need to spend as much time on in one shot. It turned out to be just a > colossal waste of time, sorry to say. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just > read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing > pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current > questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential > (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, > bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as > good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now > our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to > maybe 0.25. > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled > and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use > Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the > effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some > prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so > quickly at this pH? > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the > filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products > from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for > beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I > countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not > necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to > it? > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. > Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional > sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish > is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for > the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist > peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that > filtration would not catch? > > > > - fish sickness: > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a > sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt > and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were > actually exposed to. > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are > not completely clear. > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature > gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and > started eating again. > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it > could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not > there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I > have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in > live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not > break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it > either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and > salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what > extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might > be the case... > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal > color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned > down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for > tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the > pH unstable? > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from > more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia > level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the > temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY > toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, > the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as > possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm > ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic > infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the > LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still > a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most > internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for > internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills > being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of > the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments > observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that > Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas > of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even > though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to > indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, > neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I > understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these > fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as > that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear > somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while > this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this > much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause > additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., > it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 > teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the > orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's > normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; > this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present > though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it > could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, > with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to > raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the > ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero > (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as > they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is > the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that > you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred > into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that > is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies > dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water > changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower > ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought > out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank > from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month > later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a > black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look > for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had > from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water > conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim > normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish > discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my > impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. > While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly > started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, > less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they > both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden > glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still > spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather > good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by > parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank > scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how > velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are > enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else > could they have? > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe > they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have > parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53084	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/7/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Hi Ray, oh my god, I am so sorry! It happened to me occasionally too (not 4 pages though) and I still remember the frustration. If I write a long email I started to save drafts in between but with the messages here I risk the same thing. I guess using Notepad or so is a good idea but sometimes one does not know how long something can get. In any case thank you very much for the effort (2 times) and I will try to split my questions better. I will post the main ones again and hope your computer will "cooperate" if you find the time. Thanks a lot! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > In case you were looking forward to receiving a reply from me on this post (below) of yours, I just wanted you to know that I wrote you about 4 pages of info in detail, addressing every issue of your post -- BUT -- my computer dropped off line after typing all that on Sunday night, leaving me with nothing but a blank screen. It all disappeared in a flash, so, I started up my older computer which generally gives me no trouble (even though it's terribly slow) as I use it with Mozilla Firefox. After answering several other posts on other groups, I re-wrote my lengthy reply to you, best as I could remember it, getting done about 1:30 AM Monday morning. Then, when I hit Send, it gave me the message that it couldn't find the Server. I messed with it for about 1/2 hour trying to get it to send, and half-way through that, it got lost in the shuffle. No amount of fooling around with it could bring it back up let alone send it, so that was lost also. I just can't type all that detail all over again -- at least not as one piece. Nor will I try to include it on the Home Page or in the Archives/Site Messages, if I even try it again at all. If you want that stuff answered, you'd be better off asking in much smaller messages that I don't need to spend as much time on in one shot. It turned out to be just a colossal waste of time, sorry to say. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so quickly at this pH? > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to it? > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that filtration would not catch? > > > > - fish sickness: > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were actually exposed to. > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are not completely clear. > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and started eating again. > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the pH unstable? > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53085	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Ray, Compose it in Thunderbird, SAVE on a regular basis (or turn on auto-save) and then copy and paste onto the web page reply. ~Kai --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > In case you were looking forward to receiving a reply from me on this post (below) of yours, I just wanted you to know that I wrote you about 4 pages of info in detail, addressing every issue of your post -- BUT -- my computer dropped off line after typing all that on Sunday night, leaving me with nothing but a blank screen. It all disappeared in a flash, so, I started up my older computer which generally gives me no trouble (even though it's terribly slow) as I use it with Mozilla Firefox. After answering several other posts on other groups, I re-wrote my lengthy reply to you, best as I could remember it, getting done about 1:30 AM Monday morning. Then, when I hit Send, it gave me the message that it couldn't find the Server. I messed with it for about 1/2 hour trying to get it to send, and half-way through that, it got lost in the shuffle. No amount of fooling around with it could bring it back up let alone send it, so that was lost also. I just can't type all that detail all over again -- at least not as one piece. Nor will I try to include it on the Home Page or in the Archives/Site Messages, if I even try it again at all. If you want that stuff answered, you'd be better off asking in much smaller messages that I don't need to spend as much time on in one shot. It turned out to be just a colossal waste of time, sorry to say. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so quickly at this pH? > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any disadvantage to it? > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that filtration would not catch? > > > > - fish sickness: > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were actually exposed to. > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms are not completely clear. > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and started eating again. > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make the pH unstable? > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still weak. > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? What else could they have? > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53086	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

I use mozilla thunderbird for my email needs, and it auto-saves as I'm typing my messages and keeps them in the draft folder until I actually hit send. that way if I lose it somehow it's still saved (most of it at least) in my draft folder. Amber On 2/7/2012 3:18 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > How frustrating but I know exactly where you are coming from because I > have been there many times. I know this isn't going to help you restore > your painstaking work or Nora to get her info but what I do now when I am > responding to an email & it is going to be more than just a few lines then > I type it out in Notepad & copy & paste it when I am done. Additionally > after every 3 or 4 paragraphs I save the partially message so far to my > desktop so as I go along even if my computer crashes or I loose the > connection I still have most of my work saved on my desktop. Hope this > helps... > > John*<o)))<* > > On 7 February 2012 23:26, Ray <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > In case you were looking forward to receiving a reply from me on > this post > > (below) of yours, I just wanted you to know that I wrote you about 4 > pages > > of info in detail, addressing every issue of your post -- BUT -- my > > computer dropped off line after typing all that on Sunday night, > leaving me > > with nothing but a blank screen. It all disappeared in a flash, so, I > > started up my older computer which generally gives me no trouble (even > > though it's terribly slow) as I use it with Mozilla Firefox. After > > answering several other posts on other groups, I re-wrote my lengthy > reply > > to you, best as I could remember it, getting done about 1:30 AM Monday > > morning. Then, when I hit Send, it gave me the message that it couldn't > > find the Server. I messed with it for about 1/2 hour trying to get it to > > send, and half-way through that, it got lost in the shuffle. No > amount of > > fooling around with it could bring it back up let alone send it, so that > > was lost also. I just can't type all that detail all over again -- > at least > > not as one piece. Nor will I try to include it on the Home Page or > in the > > Archives/Site Messages, if I even try it again at all. If you want that > > stuff answered, you'd be better off asking in much smaller messages > that I > > don't need to spend as much time on in one shot. It turned out to be > just a > > colossal waste of time, sorry to say. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just > > read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing > > pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current > > questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential > > (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water > changes, > > bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were either > "low" (as > > good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the color can get. > Right now > > our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank fluctuated with ammonia up to > > maybe 0.25. > > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not > cycled > > and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day > and use > > Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the > > effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to > add some > > prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic levels so > > quickly at this pH? > > > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the > > filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other > products > > from various companies. Would those products ensure higher surfaces for > > beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in > toxins (I > > countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be not > > necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any > disadvantage to > > it? > > > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile > equilibrium. > > Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or additional > > sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large amount > of fish > > is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per gallon except for > > the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are able to coexist > > peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate too fast that > > filtration would not catch? > > > > > > - fish sickness: > > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a > > sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With > the salt > > and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish were > > actually exposed to. > > > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the > symptoms are > > not completely clear. > > > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature > > gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first and > > started eating again. > > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it > > could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were not > > there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold sparkle > but I > > have no comparison and not enough experience to know. How rare is > velvet in > > live bearers? I read it is often present if freshwater fish but does not > > break out as long as the immune system is strong. Is that a tale? Is it > > either there as sickness or not at all? I had read somewhere that > heat and > > salt might also work against the parasites causing velvet but not to > what > > extent. So I had hoped it will give me time to find out better what > might > > be the case... > > > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has > normal > > color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. I turned > > down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for > > tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it > make the > > pH unstable? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long > message :) > > > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from > > more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An > ammonia > > level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. If the > > temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm ammonia is > HIGHLY > > toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and especially at > higher pH's, > > the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be 0.00 or as close to it as > > possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm ammonia -- it means > 0.00 ppm > > ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a > parasitic > > infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were exposed to > in the > > LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for treating Hexamita, > it's still > > a good all-around broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against most > > internal bacteria even though it would not be the medication of > choice for > > internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills > > being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one of > > the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill filaments > > observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, know that > > Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but may have > areas > > of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even > > though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would > seem to > > indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this problem, > > neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal issue. > While I > > understand that you don't want to stand around doing nothing to help > these > > fish, medications should never be used indiscriminately nor > improperly, as > > that can be worse than doing nothing. In this case, if the fish appear > > somewhat better, it was despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, > while > > this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish when this > > much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change can cause > > additional stress. Adding salt should always be done progressively > -- i.e., > > it should be added in smaller increments daily. , at no more than 1 > > teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 gallons) per day. If the > > orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, this is may well be part > of it's > > normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is not the treatment at all, for > Velvet; > > this treatment is ONLY for Ich. It's doubtful that there's Velvet > present > > though, but as to where the illnesses may have started from -- while it > > could have been from the stores, your cycling the tank with the fish > in it, > > with a pH of 8.2 and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you > had to > > raise the temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the > > ammonia level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero > > (better if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as > > they were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' > problems is > > the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia > level that > > you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I > transferred > > into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that > > is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my > mollies > > dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I either > do water > > changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low (around 0.25 or > lower > > ppm). I could only imagine that they were initially stressed what > brought > > out a parasite? How likely is a bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank > > from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store > a month > > later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. It was a > > black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I did not look > > for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two mollies (one we had > > from the beginning, one we bought later after we had rather stable water > > conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim > > normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish > > discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my > > impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also less. > > While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second molly > > started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but still > weak. > > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, > > less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in > 10G they > > both do better. In the different light there I thought to see golden > > glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There are still > > spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with > rather > > good water quality unless they got infected or where already infected by > > parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in the > original tank > > scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they did not. > > > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how > > velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus > salt are > > enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? > What else > > could they have? > > > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe > > they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they have > > parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53087	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

The best way to keep a hospital tank properly cycled is to keep an extra filter (in this case a little filter made for a 10 gallon tank) running on your larger and fully established tank. This little filter will have it's own little colony of bacteria growing it, so after you do your medications you can swap the filter running on the 10 gallon with the established filter running on your other tank, this way you always have a filter colonized for your hospital tank. I'm not sure why carbon is so common in filters, my own thought is because it was one of the first media's found to absorb toxins in your water, so it's the most widely known about and has an established reputation. The newer products are still earning their reputations. The best way to increase your beneficial bacteria colony is to change your media in your filter, or in your case you could always add another filter on the tank, this will keep the tank better colonized for your beneficial bacteria if you remove anything from your other filter (such as exchanging an old worn out carbon pad/bag for a new one, or changing it to a sponge whatever you end up doing). There are many product out there that can be purchased that will do a better job of creating a home for your bacteria colony, so it's just a matter of finding one that will fit in your filter. Either way these bio-balls or whatever you happen to purchase, will still have to be cleaned when you clean the rest of your filter weekly. Just rinse them in removed tap water from your tank, then put them back. I typically take my carbon pads and sponges to the kitchen sink and spray them out with tap water, this will quickly kill ALL beneficial bacteria from the chlorine/chloramines in the tap water, so you always want to make sure that you keep your bio-balls (or equivalent product) and rinse them with tank water to not kill all your bacteria in your filter and have to cycle your tank all over again. A lot of people rinse all of their filter media in removed tank water, but I can never get mine clean enough (to my liking at least). I also have heavily planted tanks and that helps keep my tank from doing much of a mini-cycle, as my plants quickly use up any excess ammonia from a mini cycle before anything bad can happen. The one waste product that normal filtration methods/products will not filter out is Nitrates, which is why you have to do regular water changes (to lower your Nitrates to a safe range for your fish). If nitrates get too high in a tank it can cause the pH to lower very fast as well, which is not good. Not to mention some fish are very sensitive to nitrates and will die if the nitrates get too high for them. Not sure if I answered all the questions fully, but hope at least some of that info helps you out. Amber On 2/5/2012 10:32 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just > read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing > pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current > questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > - about hospital tanks: > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential > (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water > changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were > either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the > color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank > fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not > cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and > use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the > effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add > some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic > levels so quickly at this pH? > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the > filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other > products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher > surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins > (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be > not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any > disadvantage to it? > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile > equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or > additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large > amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per > gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are > able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate > too fast that filtration would not catch? > > - fish sickness: > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a > sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the > salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish > were actually exposed to. > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms > are not completely clear. > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature > gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first > and started eating again. > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it > could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were > not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold > sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. > How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if > freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is > strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? > I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the > parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it > will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has > normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. > I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for > tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make > the pH unstable? > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > All infos are very appreciated, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from > more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An > ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. > If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm > ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and > especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be > 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm > ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a > parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were > exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for > treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum > antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it > would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills > being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one > of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill > filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, > know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but > may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even > though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem > to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this > problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal > issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing > nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used > indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing > nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was > despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, > while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish > when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change > can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done > progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. > , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 > gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, > this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is > not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. > It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the > illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the > stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 > and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the > temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia > level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better > if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they > were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is > the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level > that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I > transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that > is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my > mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I > either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low > (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were > initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a > bacterial infection? > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank > from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a > month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. > It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I > did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two > mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we > had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim > normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish > discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my > impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also > less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second > molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but > still weak. > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, > less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G > they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see > golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There > are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > My questions: > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with > rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already > infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in > the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they > did not. > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how > velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt > are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? > What else could they have? > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe > they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they > have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > Nora > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53088	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

now I only need a spell to make it soft ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > You have magic water, Nora. :oP > ~Kai > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Kai, > > > > Our tap water is only neutral fresh out of the pipes. When I let it stand in a clean container for 24 hours it had the same pH as the aquarium: around 8.2 . > > So it fits that the aquariums have the same pH... > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > > > Non-neutral water could/will drift toward neutral but neutral water wouldn't change without some sort of outside influence. > > > > > > Another way to find the culprit is to remove a handful of substrate (or whatever else Nora might suspect) and put it into a bowl with neutral tap water, then test the water in the bowl in a day or two. > > > > > > Start with anything that's coral, shell or marble. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray wrote: > > > > > > > > Kai, > > > > > > > > It's possible that the gravel or rocks may contain carbonates, which would increase the pH, but I would hope that Nora might be aware of anything like this, especially as she'd rather not have her pH quite this high. Then too, depending upon the KH level, the off-gassing of CO2 can result in a change in the basic direction if the amount of this gas were considerable in the first place. My well water, for instance is at pH 6.0 when it first comes out of the ground. After letting it stand for 24 hours to off-gas the CO2, the pH comes up to 6.6. If Nora has any doubt, she should test a sample of her gravel though, by removing some and pouring some vinegar over it to see if it bubbles. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's possible for the pH of water to change all by itself. If it comes out of the tap neutral and changes to 8.2 after 24 hours, something is effecting it. > > > > > > > > > > I assume you are taking that 24 hour reading from tank water. What do you have in there that could be affecting it? Coral? Marble? Other rocks? What kind of substrate do you have? What kinds of decorations have you added? > > > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nora wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > our tap water has a very high Ph: 8.2 after letting the water stand for 24 hours. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fresh tap water is almost neutral, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53089	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: softening the water, lowering Ph

Thanks a lot, that sounds interesting! I will look into it more... I am not sure yet in which form I can buy peat and if I can add it to the filter I have. In principle I might remove the carbon filter and fill the slot and empty space with something else. Maybe a combination of sponge and peat ... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" wrote: > > I am afraid an R/O unit outgrows our "aquarium-budget" but > > how about peat filtration. Is it the same effect like driftwood? > > An acid leaking slowly into the water? > > Peat works very well and there are a couple of ways you can use it. Usually setting up a separate peat system where you then use the peat filtered water in your water changes or actually adding peat directly to your aquarium's filtration system somewhere. > > I have used the separate system method for making peat water for small tanks. In my case I happened to have an old large hang on the back type power filter and some square shaped 4 gallon buckets. The square shape was key because I could hang the filter right on the bucket. I basically filled a large mesh bag with peat, probably about the size of a grapefruit and that simply sat in the filter. This was set up in the corner of my basement and would run all week. Come the weekend, I would simply siphon out whatever amount I needed into one-gallon jugs then refilled the peat bucket to let it run for another week. I would then use this peat water for water changes in my small tanks (e.g. 10 gallon tank). Every once in a while (a couple/few times a year) I would change out the peat. This could easily be setup with a spare 10 gallon tank and you don't even need a filter. You could simply put the bag directly in the tank "tea bag" style and run a cheap power head for circulation. > > Obviously the above method is only really suited for smaller tanks unless you want to be shlepping around lots of water in buckets and jugs to your larger tanks. So for larger tanks I suggest doing it directly on the tank. And I also suggest you might want to set up a independent filter for this leaving your regular filters the way they are unless you happen to be running a large canister filter and can spare a compartment for peat. The nice thing about this is you don't need a special or expensive filter. In fact, this is a task that is great for any old filter you might have stopped using and have tucked away somewhere. Like that one you stopped using because it uses expensive cartridges that were not very effective and nothing else would fit properly in the filter chamber. Those types of filters are great to simply hang on the tank and throw a bag of peat into them where it doesn't matter how well the water flow through the peat. As long as it is making contact with the water which is flowing past, it will work. > > > > I am a little hesitant to go with distilled water because I like the option > > of doing water changes whenever necessary (without needing gallons > > of special water stored). > > Ya, with things like distilled and R/O water, you need to store a lot and like I mentioned above, for larger tanks this can be a bit of a pain if you are trying to change only 10% in a 75 gallon tank and have to haul around 7.5 gallons of water in buckets. And it certainly is much more expensive than a giant bundle of garden peat. :) > > > > Also, is there no danger of depriving the fish of some essential > > minerals in the water? Or did you mean to only supplement the > > normal water like half/half? > > Yes, normally you don't use straight distilled or R/O water 100% all the time. Instead you would tend to mix it with your tap water. So half tap and half pure water will half your minerals and such resulting in softer water with a lower pH. You just have to work out the ratio of each to get where you want. > > Regards, > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53090	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/8/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Hi Amber, yes thanks, I got a better idea about filtration! It really leaves some options ... With a hospital tank I have a general problem since our pH with 8.2 is so high. As soon as I use medication that affects the bio-filter it seems the resulting ammonia rise might be extremely dangerous to the fish, even with additional water changes...As somebody else wrote before: the cure could be worse than the disease :( I guess I have to hope that we got strong self-healing fish ... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The best way to keep a hospital tank properly cycled is to keep an extra > filter (in this case a little filter made for a 10 gallon tank) running > on your larger and fully established tank. This little filter will have > it's own little colony of bacteria growing it, so after you do your > medications you can swap the filter running on the 10 gallon with the > established filter running on your other tank, this way you always have > a filter colonized for your hospital tank. > > I'm not sure why carbon is so common in filters, my own thought is > because it was one of the first media's found to absorb toxins in your > water, so it's the most widely known about and has an established > reputation. The newer products are still earning their reputations. > > The best way to increase your beneficial bacteria colony is to change > your media in your filter, or in your case you could always add another > filter on the tank, this will keep the tank better colonized for your > beneficial bacteria if you remove anything from your other filter (such > as exchanging an old worn out carbon pad/bag for a new one, or changing > it to a sponge whatever you end up doing). There are many product out > there that can be purchased that will do a better job of creating a home > for your bacteria colony, so it's just a matter of finding one that will > fit in your filter. Either way these bio-balls or whatever you happen to > purchase, will still have to be cleaned when you clean the rest of your > filter weekly. Just rinse them in removed tap water from your tank, then > put them back. I typically take my carbon pads and sponges to the > kitchen sink and spray them out with tap water, this will quickly kill > ALL beneficial bacteria from the chlorine/chloramines in the tap water, > so you always want to make sure that you keep your bio-balls (or > equivalent product) and rinse them with tank water to not kill all your > bacteria in your filter and have to cycle your tank all over again. A > lot of people rinse all of their filter media in removed tank water, but > I can never get mine clean enough (to my liking at least). I also have > heavily planted tanks and that helps keep my tank from doing much of a > mini-cycle, as my plants quickly use up any excess ammonia from a mini > cycle before anything bad can happen. > > The one waste product that normal filtration methods/products will not > filter out is Nitrates, which is why you have to do regular water > changes (to lower your Nitrates to a safe range for your fish). If > nitrates get too high in a tank it can cause the pH to lower very fast > as well, which is not good. Not to mention some fish are very sensitive > to nitrates and will die if the nitrates get too high for them. > > Not sure if I answered all the questions fully, but hope at least some > of that info helps you out. > > Amber > > On 2/5/2012 10:32 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just > > read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing > > pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current > > questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential > > (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water > > changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were > > either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the > > color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank > > fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not > > cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and > > use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the > > effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add > > some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic > > levels so quickly at this pH? > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the > > filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other > > products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher > > surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins > > (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be > > not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any > > disadvantage to it? > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile > > equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or > > additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large > > amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per > > gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are > > able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate > > too fast that filtration would not catch? > > > > - fish sickness: > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a > > sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the > > salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish > > were actually exposed to. > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms > > are not completely clear. > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature > > gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first > > and started eating again. > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it > > could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were > > not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold > > sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. > > How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if > > freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is > > strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? > > I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the > > parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it > > will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has > > normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. > > I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for > > tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make > > the pH unstable? > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from > > more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An > > ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. > > If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm > > ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and > > especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be > > 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm > > ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a > > parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were > > exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for > > treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum > > antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it > > would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills > > being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one > > of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill > > filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, > > know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but > > may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even > > though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem > > to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this > > problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal > > issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing > > nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used > > indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing > > nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was > > despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, > > while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish > > when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change > > can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done > > progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. > > , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 > > gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, > > this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is > > not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. > > It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the > > illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the > > stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 > > and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the > > temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia > > level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better > > if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they > > were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is > > the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level > > that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I > > transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that > > is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my > > mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I > > either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low > > (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were > > initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a > > bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank > > from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a > > month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. > > It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I > > did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two > > mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we > > had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim > > normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish > > discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my > > impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also > > less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second > > molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but > > still weak. > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, > > less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G > > they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see > > golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There > > are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with > > rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already > > infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in > > the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they > > did not. > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how > > velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt > > are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? > > What else could they have? > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe > > they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they > > have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53091	From: Ray	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: trying to clarify details.....

Nora. Amber covered some of what I included in my lost message, about carbon and filters (thanks, Amber). There's something else you need to know also, about medication and filters -- not all medications will kill you nitrifying bacteria. Dye medications like Malachite Green will though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > yes thanks, I got a better idea about filtration! It really leaves some options ... > With a hospital tank I have a general problem since our pH with 8.2 is so high. As soon as I use medication that affects the bio-filter it seems the resulting ammonia rise might be extremely dangerous to the fish, even with additional water changes...As somebody else wrote before: the cure could be worse than the disease :( > I guess I have to hope that we got strong self-healing fish ... > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > The best way to keep a hospital tank properly cycled is to keep an extra > > filter (in this case a little filter made for a 10 gallon tank) running > > on your larger and fully established tank. This little filter will have > > it's own little colony of bacteria growing it, so after you do your > > medications you can swap the filter running on the 10 gallon with the > > established filter running on your other tank, this way you always have > > a filter colonized for your hospital tank. > > > > I'm not sure why carbon is so common in filters, my own thought is > > because it was one of the first media's found to absorb toxins in your > > water, so it's the most widely known about and has an established > > reputation. The newer products are still earning their reputations. > > > > The best way to increase your beneficial bacteria colony is to change > > your media in your filter, or in your case you could always add another > > filter on the tank, this will keep the tank better colonized for your > > beneficial bacteria if you remove anything from your other filter (such > > as exchanging an old worn out carbon pad/bag for a new one, or changing > > it to a sponge whatever you end up doing). There are many product out > > there that can be purchased that will do a better job of creating a home > > for your bacteria colony, so it's just a matter of finding one that will > > fit in your filter. Either way these bio-balls or whatever you happen to > > purchase, will still have to be cleaned when you clean the rest of your > > filter weekly. Just rinse them in removed tap water from your tank, then > > put them back. I typically take my carbon pads and sponges to the > > kitchen sink and spray them out with tap water, this will quickly kill > > ALL beneficial bacteria from the chlorine/chloramines in the tap water, > > so you always want to make sure that you keep your bio-balls (or > > equivalent product) and rinse them with tank water to not kill all your > > bacteria in your filter and have to cycle your tank all over again. A > > lot of people rinse all of their filter media in removed tank water, but > > I can never get mine clean enough (to my liking at least). I also have > > heavily planted tanks and that helps keep my tank from doing much of a > > mini-cycle, as my plants quickly use up any excess ammonia from a mini > > cycle before anything bad can happen. > > > > The one waste product that normal filtration methods/products will not > > filter out is Nitrates, which is why you have to do regular water > > changes (to lower your Nitrates to a safe range for your fish). If > > nitrates get too high in a tank it can cause the pH to lower very fast > > as well, which is not good. Not to mention some fish are very sensitive > > to nitrates and will die if the nitrates get too high for them. > > > > Not sure if I answered all the questions fully, but hope at least some > > of that info helps you out. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/5/2012 10:32 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > first of all, thank you very much for all the detailed answers I just > > > read from you! I included an update about the mollies. > > > I am trying to get a picture together and I still have some missing > > > pieces of the puzzles in several areas. I just try to list my current > > > questions and hope the answer will clarify everything a little more.... > > > > > > - about hospital tanks: > > > with the high pH of my tap water general water quality seems essential > > > (what I mean is: especially with the high pH). I used prime, water > > > changes, bacteria to ensure "low" toxins. The last weeks they were > > > either "low" (as good as I can judge the color) or as far 0 as the > > > color can get. Right now our first tank is 0 and the hospital tank > > > fluctuated with ammonia up to maybe 0.25. > > > How can I keep the hospital tank (10G) with 0 toxins if it is not > > > cycled and medications are used that even might inhibit accurate readings? > > > What is a good practice to ensure water quality? > > > Does it make sense to do a little water change almost every day and > > > use Prime (I guess applying PWC's also depend if that does not the > > > effectiveness of some medications?) ? Or is it enough/necessary to add > > > some prime every day preventative since the ammonio reaches toxic > > > levels so quickly at this pH? > > > > > > - ensuring general water quality in a small tank with many fish: > > > Why are carbon filter so common in many aquariums? > > > What toxins are they filtering if it is a "clean" tank? > > > Best ways to increase the beneficial bacteria in the filtration? > > > > > > You mentioned that I would not need to add a bio sponge in the > > > filtration but that I could replace the carbon filter with other > > > products from various companies. Would those products ensure higher > > > surfaces for beneficial bacteria or what would be their purpose? > > > Since the exchange of the carbon filter showed an increase in toxins > > > (I countered them with adding new bacteria immediately), would it be > > > not necessary to increase the bio filter surface? Is there any > > > disadvantage to it? > > > > > > We have 0 toxins at the moment but it seems to be a fragile > > > equilibrium. Can additional filtration (in form of a second filter or > > > additional sponges/material in the first/only one) ensure that a large > > > amount of fish is tolerated? What defines the max. amount of fish per > > > gallon except for the ability to obtain 0 toxins and that the fish are > > > able to coexist peacefully? Are there waste products that accumulate > > > too fast that filtration would not catch? > > > > > > - fish sickness: > > > I can imagine that the not perfect water triggered an outbreak of a > > > sickness that might have been suppressed or invisible before. With the > > > salt and Prime in the water it is hard to judge for me what the fish > > > were actually exposed to. > > > > > > Update on the mollies: it seems such a guessing game if the symptoms > > > are not completely clear. > > > > > > In the hospital tank (I had increased the salt amount and temperature > > > gradually to 86F and 6 Tbsp salt) the mollies seemed better at first > > > and started eating again. > > > Sadly, the orange molly died a few days ago. I am still not sure if it > > > could have been velvet or not. The yellow spots around the eyes were > > > not there naturally in the beginning and I think I saw the gold > > > sparkle but I have no comparison and not enough experience to know. > > > How rare is velvet in live bearers? I read it is often present if > > > freshwater fish but does not break out as long as the immune system is > > > strong. Is that a tale? Is it either there as sickness or not at all? > > > I had read somewhere that heat and salt might also work against the > > > parasites causing velvet but not to what extent. So I had hoped it > > > will give me time to find out better what might be the case... > > > > > > Fortunately, the white molly seems much better and the waste has > > > normal color again. Additionally it swims more active and eats a lot. > > > I turned down the heat and salt gradually and it still looks much better. > > > > > > I read recently about peat in the filtration... Is this suitable for > > > tropical freshwater fish or can it cause other problems? Does it make > > > the pH unstable? > > > > > > Thanks a lot for your time and to everyone who read this long message :) > > > > > > All infos are very appreciated, > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't recall the pH being stated here yet, but seem to recall from > > > more recent messages I've read that it might be as high as 8.2. An > > > ammonia level of 0.25 ppm IS toxic if the temperature is 78 o -- 80 o. > > > If the temperature is still at 86 o at this point, the 0.25 ppm > > > ammonia is HIGHLY toxic, causing all sorts of stress. Ideally, and > > > especially at higher pH's, the ammonia (and nitrate) should always be > > > 0.00 or as close to it as possible. Zero toxins does not mean 0.25 ppm > > > ammonia -- it means 0.00 ppm ammonia -- ESPECIALLY at a high pH. > > > > > > > > As to whether there may be either a bacterial infection or a > > > parasitic infection, much of this is dependent upon what they were > > > exposed to in the LFS's tanks. While Metronidazole is meant for > > > treating Hexamita, it's still a good all-around broad-spectrum > > > antibiotic, effective against most internal bacteria even though it > > > would not be the medication of choice for internal bacteria issues. > > > > > > > > As for diagnosing this orange Molly, the description of the gills > > > being yellowish brings to question how this was arrived at -- was one > > > of the gill plates lifted away from the body and the actual gill > > > filaments observed? As for yellowish spotting appearing near the eye, > > > know that Orange Mollies are not always a solid orange in color, but > > > may have areas of lighter or darker orange/yellow. > > > > > > > > The White Molly, at first described as resting on the bottom -- even > > > though it could swim normally -- and mow, swimming head up, would seem > > > to indicate a swim bladder issue. Maracide does nothing for this > > > problem, neither can Maracide have any effect on any kind of internal > > > issue. While I understand that you don't want to stand around doing > > > nothing to help these fish, medications should never be used > > > indiscriminately nor improperly, as that can be worse than doing > > > nothing. In this case, if the fish appear somewhat better, it was > > > despite the use of Maracide, and luckily so. > > > > > > > > As for the 6 Tablespoons of salt in the 10 gallon hospital tank, > > > while this is not too much for Mollies, it IS too much for ANY fish > > > when this much salt is added all at once. Again, this drastic change > > > can cause additional stress. Adding salt should always be done > > > progressively -- i.e., it should be added in smaller increments daily. > > > , at no more than 1 teaspoons per gallon (3 1/3 Tablespoons per 10 > > > gallons) per day. If the orange "glitter" is one the Orange Molly, > > > this is may well be part of it's normal coloration. 86 o F and salt is > > > not the treatment at all, for Velvet; this treatment is ONLY for Ich. > > > It's doubtful that there's Velvet present though, but as to where the > > > illnesses may have started from -- while it could have been from the > > > stores, your cycling the tank with the fish in it, with a pH of 8.2 > > > and an ammonias level of 0.25 would do it, when you had to raise the > > > temperature to 86 o. At that pH, and at that temperature, the ammonia > > > level should never have been allowed to be any more than Zero (better > > > if the tank was never cycled with fish in it, being stressed as they > > > were). I'd have to say that at least half of your Mollies' problems is > > > the stress they are continually getting from this toxic ammonia level > > > that you call "0", when in fact it's not "0". > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > there were different questions regarding the 2 mollies I > > > transferred into a hospital tank (10G) 2 days ago. > > > > > > > > > > To summarize: > > > > > > > > > > Because of water quality: yes, I know how important it is and that > > > is why I do daily tests. The values were good enough to exclude my > > > mollies dying from it. Right now I have 0 toxins. If that changes I > > > either do water changes or add bacteria and that kept the values low > > > (around 0.25 or lower ppm). I could only imagine that they were > > > initially stressed what brought out a parasite? How likely is a > > > bacterial infection? > > > > > > > > > > The reason I suspect parasites or something infectious: > > > > > We had a molly that was sickly from the beginning (the same tank > > > from which we bought the molly was treated against ich in the store a > > > month later) but died after our tank had already good water quality. > > > It was a black and white lyretail dalmatian molly and at that time I > > > did not look for ich but did not see unusual spots. The other two > > > mollies (one we had from the beginning, one we bought later after we > > > had rather stable water conditions) got sick later. > > > > > > > > > > Their behavior: one (orange) was laying more around but could swim > > > normally, it also had some yellowish spot near the eye and yellowish > > > discolored gills (hard to tell on an organ fish but that was my > > > impression). The other (white) preferred to swim head up and also > > > less. While using Maracide I thought to see improvement and the second > > > molly started to swim almost normal again and both seemed better but > > > still weak. > > > > > A few days later the orange one got weaker again (less swimming, > > > less eating) while the white was unchanged. > > > > > > > > > > Now in the hospital tank with 86 F and 6 Tablespoon salt in 10G > > > they both do better. In the different light there I thought to see > > > golden glitter on the orange one (velvet?) but I am not sure. There > > > are still spots around his eyes but they are more yellow than white. > > > > > > > > > > My questions: > > > > > I would not know how the mollies would get sick suddenly with > > > rather good water quality unless they got infected or where already > > > infected by parasites or bacteria or? Occasionally I saw the fish in > > > the original tank scratching but not often. In the hospital tank they > > > did not. > > > > > > > > > > I cannot tell if the white one might have ich, I am not sure how > > > velvet would look on the orange one and I am not sure if 86F plus salt > > > are enough for Velvet (if it is Velvet)? Any opinions or experiences? > > > What else could they have? > > > > > > > > > > Right now I wait and see. The mollies started eating more so maybe > > > they are getting already better just by heat and salt. But if they > > > have parasites I worry about the rest of the fish in my other tank. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for ideas! > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53092	From: joe t	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hey, Ray Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. Have to put some insulation around the basement to help hold the heat better. As you said, it's a lot of work but it's worth it cause (to me anyway) it's fun. I enjoy it. Yes, when I am finished (God knows when that will be, I'm getting any younger) I'll take some pics. Thanks. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > I have about 90 tanks in my hatchery. These 19 tanks are set up for pairing off Angels for obtaining breeding pairs. This is strictly a hobby for me, although I naturally have to sell off excess fish that I raise, to the local pet shops, or else I'd soon be s o o o overloaded with fish. Been in this hobby for 64 years so far. I no longer work with fish professionally, but used to have my own aquarium store and also imported fish from Africa and Germany to distribute across the country. I was in partners also, in a Rift Lake Cichlid wholesale business. Got to know many great people who were catching and exporting the fish to us. Even got to go to Lake Victoria to instruct the fishermen on what to catch, as in the beginning they were sending us only all males. > > This may sound like a lot of tanks to some people, but the hobby here on the East Coast is big! I know other hobbyists who have up to 150 tanks, a few of them world-renown hobbyists. Many of my friends have similar numbers of tanks, it's like, the norm! Then too, 90 tanks may not sound like very many to some other people, but many of them are large -- averaging about 50 gallon (with some 125 to 150 gallons and others 20 to 30 gallons) -- so there's a total of about 3200 gallons in all the tanks. There's a guy I know on the other side of the state who has 10,000 gallons in his tanks -- his place is hugh, and so are his tanks. > > Thanks for asking. Perhaps you might have this many tanks (or more?) sometime. It's work, but it's lots of fun < g >. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > 19 of your tanks....? May I ask how many you have in total? Are you working professionally with fish or as a hobby? > > > > Just being curious :) > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53093	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Reminder, please trim your posts

Hello, Just a reminder to please trim your posts. Our members on digest have difficulties with posts that are untrimmed and those of us on our tiny phone screens have trouble as well. It is important to leave information about what you are replying to but the extraneous information can be removed when a post start to get a little long. Thank you. Mike G

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53094	From: Ray	Date: 2/9/2012
Subject: Re: Picking out fish.

Hey Joe, I'd like to send some pics to the List but I wouldn't know how. I'd first need to take some pics though. Then, I'd need to get a slide scanner as that's all I take. I have 5 very good quality 35mm SLR (Single Lens Reflex) cameras -- which take film (slide film). I don't have a digital camera and don't want one as I have no use for them. Maybe one of these days when I learn how to send pics, and when I get a slide scanner, I'll be able to show some photos. Sure, working with fish is a lot of work when you have a lot of them, but it's work that you enjoy doing as part of keeping them in good shape -- and keeping them in good shape is the reward for your work as it's always great seeing them appreciate PWC's; and you can see that they enjoy the PWC's just by their renewed vigor as soon as the fresh water is added to their tanks. You see it their behavior, they immediately become extremely perky, and show a voracious appetite. What more can you ask of them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hey, Ray > > Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. Have to put some insulation around the basement to help hold the heat better. > > As you said, it's a lot of work but it's worth it cause (to me anyway) it's fun. I enjoy it. > > Yes, when I am finished (God knows when that will be, I'm getting any younger) I'll take some pics. > > Thanks. > > joe t > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > I have about 90 tanks in my hatchery. These 19 tanks are set up for pairing off Angels for obtaining breeding pairs. This is strictly a hobby for me, although I naturally have to sell off excess fish that I raise, to the local pet shops, or else I'd soon be s o o o overloaded with fish. Been in this hobby for 64 years so far. I no longer work with fish professionally, but used to have my own aquarium store and also imported fish from Africa and Germany to distribute across the country. I was in partners also, in a Rift Lake Cichlid wholesale business. Got to know many great people who were catching and exporting the fish to us. Even got to go to Lake Victoria to instruct the fishermen on what to catch, as in the beginning they were sending us only all males. > > > > This may sound like a lot of tanks to some people, but the hobby here on the East Coast is big! I know other hobbyists who have up to 150 tanks, a few of them world-renown hobbyists. Many of my friends have similar numbers of tanks, it's like, the norm! Then too, 90 tanks may not sound like very many to some other people, but many of them are large -- averaging about 50 gallon (with some 125 to 150 gallons and others 20 to 30 gallons) -- so there's a total of about 3200 gallons in all the tanks. There's a guy I know on the other side of the state who has 10,000 gallons in his tanks -- his place is hugh, and so are his tanks. > > > > Thanks for asking. Perhaps you might have this many tanks (or more?) sometime. It's work, but it's lots of fun < g >. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > 19 of your tanks....? May I ask how many you have in total? Are you working professionally with fish or as a hobby? > > > > > > Just being curious :) > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Four Angelfish in this 75 gallon tank could work (but no guarantees). As Angels all have individual personalities, it would all depend on how well they each behaved. Nineteen of my tanks have multiple adult Angelfish populations, with three of these tanks having four fish each -- and they all get along fine. But then, they were all raised in these tanks together from fry, so that may also make some difference. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "NA" <specialname76@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As I am watching posts about fish and ph. I would like a suggestion for a mix. I thought about 4 angels, and a couple groups of smaller fish. According to the strip I have used 6 is the ph, but til I get a master test kit and test again. I have a 75 gal, no hood, will get those. I added a heater as I had goldfish. I have now waited a week with heater in it to get things used to warmer life. This tank is cycled been up with used water from 20 since October. ty for your input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53095	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Multiple Tank Syndrome

A question to all: How many tanks do you have? I have 4. 55g Tinfoils in the dining room 5g Betta downstairs for Mom 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. ~Kai > "joe t" wrote: > > Hey, Ray > > Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? > I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53096	From: houston@student.org	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

Cutting back now. Only 17 operating. A servant of the Christ, Dick Houston houston@... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kuradi8 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 9:55 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome A question to all: How many tanks do you have? I have 4. 55g Tinfoils in the dining room 5g Betta downstairs for Mom 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. ~Kai > "joe t" wrote: > > Hey, Ray > > Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? > I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53097	From: Rick Duffy	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

I have a 15 g with just a female betta in it at the moment; a 29 g where I bred two pair of zebras and ended up with about 60 adults; and a 75g with one angel, one 4" gourami, 10 neons, 5 platies, 8 red tail or something like that Tetras, one little black shark with deep red fins (who used to live in the 15g but he destroyed the prior male betta so he got put in the big tank) a cory, and 4 zebras. I have a plant I don't know the name of, like a bush, which is thriving in two of the tanks - in the 75 I've removed almost all the plastic plants because this big thing is taking over, and I love it. And then there's this 150 gallon oak stand tank in the store I'm lusting after....but probably won't get......not too sure......when the work stress gets too much, I seem to buy a tank lol. Rick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53098	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

I have 9 set up right now- 92 salt- fish only 75 salt -mixed reef 56 fresh-goldfish 55 salt- NPS reef 54 fresh-heavily planted community 45 fresh- Livebearer 15 Brackish- Puffer ( tiny guy, will have to be upgraded to 30 soon ) 14 salt- growout 5 fresh- nano   Maybe it should be titled- Multiple Tank Addiction? LOL All freshwater are planted, all but 1 salt is planted.   Chris ________________________________ From: kuradi8 <kuradi8A question to all: How many tanks do you have? I have 4. 55g Tinfoils in the dining room 5g Betta downstairs for Mom 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53099	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

I only have a 60 gallon set up with three koi in it right now (two of which are still babies and the other is about 9 inches long) until I get their outside pond ready this Spring/summer. When the koi fish move outside, I will have to figure out what I will do with the empty 60 gallon. I was thinking of putting some blood parrots? but I need to research that more and wanted to ask the group's input on possible fish to put in my 60 gallon (which has a higher pH- not sure how blood parrots do with a high pH). Then I have a 10 gallon that is all set up, empty of fish right now. I was thinking of just putting a little crowntail betta male in there. I miss not having a Betta fish. With three high energy dogs, a curious rabbit (that is the same size as one of my dogs), and two conspiring little quaker parrots, I don't think I'd have time for more than two tanks (one small and one big) plus an outside pond. I also do a lot of gardening (flowers, veggies, etc.) and that takes up quite a bit of time as well..I don't have much 'free time' after these things. I love all animals in general and am not just drawn to devoting my time to just one (i.e. fish). I guess I like variety! I'm content with just the kois. I just figured I get fish to put in their tank once its empty though. I'd hate to hae something that I paid so much for not being used and its been very peaceful to have them inside, watching them swim around and listening to the sound of water as I go about my work at the computer. I will miss that when they move outside, but then again, the weather will be warmer and I'll be outside more then too, so I'll still get to enjoy them quite a bit. It seems logical that I'd get more fish to put in there once its empty. I may use the 10 gallon for a quarantine tank though until I get the 60 gallon complete with the fish I want in it and have the proper amount. Then add a little betta. Such beautiful, peaceful fish to watch. Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks and keep up with it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things and mine is no exception. Do those of you with several tanks have other animals as well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm just curious. Desire' in Louisiana, Momma to the spoiled kois- Elle, Spooks, & Ginger Visit Your Group Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53100	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can have so many. But yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, 12 goats ( 4 goats that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a Zebu and 4 rabbits ( meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian Dogs. Those are outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats ( don't ask ) 2 dogs, a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage of various Finches and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside now since my illness has progressed and my Partner tends the livestock, which up until last year, I also tended. My children are grown & gone and have youngun's of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their animals with them or the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk goats before I had to cut back. Chris     Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks and keep up with it so well.  Everyone knows their limits on things and mine is no exception.  Do those of you with several tanks have other animals as well to tend to?  Do you work outside the home? I'm just curious.  Desire' in Louisiana, Momma [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53101	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

I have 6 tanks with fish in them, 2x10 gallon tanks with just water in them and snails. and a 2 gallon bowl with just water and snails (I moved the beta into one of my 10 gallon tanks after all the shrimp slowly died off, don't think shrimp like my soft water even with crushed coral in my tanks/filters). 125 gallon community tank 55 gallon with 2 angel fish, red wag platy's, a BN pleco, and 2 crawfish (new inhabitants, may move the angel's to the 125 gallon in the near future if the crawfish get pestered too much). 29 gallon with some guppy's and assorted Cory catfish 2 x 10 gallon both with a single male beta in each. 2 x 10 gallon (just snail/water) 2 gallon bowl (snails/water) Amber On 2/10/2012 5:54 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > A question to all: > How many tanks do you have? > > I have 4. > 55g Tinfoils in the dining room > 5g Betta downstairs for Mom > 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53102	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, 2 dogs. In the more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet rabbit, and another cat. The rats have since passed on, and I re-homed the rabbit and extra cat, things were a bit overwhelming at times. I can't have out-door animals as I live in a condo, and the association has LOTS of rules (some of them rather ridiculous). But some day I'd love to have an outdoor pond if I get my own house, but with the housing market I don't think I'll be able to sell my condo anytime in the next few years. Amber On 2/10/2012 9:52 AM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can have so many. But > yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, 12 goats ( 4 goats > that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a Zebu and 4 rabbits ( > meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian Dogs. Those are > outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats ( don't ask ) 2 dogs, > a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage of various Finches > and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside now since my illness > has progressed and my Partner tends the livestock, which up until last > year, I also tended. My children are grown & gone and have youngun's > of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their animals with them or > the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk goats before I had to cut > back. > Chris > > > Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks and keep up with > it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things and mine is no > exception. Do those of you with several tanks have other animals as > well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm just curious. > > Desire' in Louisiana, > Momma > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53103	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

Seven: 125G Lake Tanganyika cichlids 75G Lake Malawi mbuna 75G Lake Malawi haps and peacocks 38G Lethrinops Mbasi breeding tank 20G Lethrinops Mbasi fry 10G Lethrinops Mbasi fry 10G Lake Victorians (waiting for me to take them to LFS) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, 2 dogs. In the more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet rabbit, and another cat. The rats have since passed on, and I re-homed the rabbit and extra cat, things were a bit overwhelming at times. I can't have out-door animals as I live in a condo, and the association has LOTS of rules (some of them rather ridiculous). But some day I'd love to have an outdoor pond if I get my own house, but with the housing market I don't think I'll be able to sell my condo anytime in the next few years. Amber On 2/10/2012 9:52 AM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can have so many. But > yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, 12 goats ( 4 goats > that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a Zebu and 4 rabbits ( > meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian Dogs. Those are > outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats ( don't ask ) 2 dogs, > a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage of various Finches > and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside now since my illness > has progressed and my Partner tends the livestock, which up until last > year, I also tended. My children are grown & gone and have youngun's > of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their animals with them or > the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk goats before I had to cut > back. > Chris > > > Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks and keep up with > it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things and mine is no > exception. Do those of you with several tanks have other animals as > well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm just curious. > > Desire' in Louisiana, > Momma > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53104	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

Thanks for sharing.   Chris ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, 2 dogs. In the more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet rabbit, and another cat. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53105	From: pam andress	Date: 2/10/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. Plus lots of other cats and dogs. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: djransome@... Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:11:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question Seven: 125G Lake Tanganyika cichlids 75G Lake Malawi mbuna 75G Lake Malawi haps and peacocks 38G Lethrinops Mbasi breeding tank 20G Lethrinops Mbasi fry 10G Lethrinops Mbasi fry 10G Lake Victorians (waiting for me to take them to LFS) _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, 2 dogs. In the more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet rabbit, and another cat. The rats have since passed on, and I re-homed the rabbit and extra cat, things were a bit overwhelming at times. I can't have out-door animals as I live in a condo, and the association has LOTS of rules (some of them rather ridiculous). But some day I'd love to have an outdoor pond if I get my own house, but with the housing market I don't think I'll be able to sell my condo anytime in the next few years. Amber On 2/10/2012 9:52 AM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can have so many. But > yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, 12 goats ( 4 goats > that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a Zebu and 4 rabbits ( > meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian Dogs. Those are > outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats ( don't ask ) 2 dogs, > a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage of various Finches > and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside now since my illness > has progressed and my Partner tends the livestock, which up until last > year, I also tended. My children are grown & gone and have youngun's > of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their animals with them or > the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk goats before I had to cut > back. > Chris > > > Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks and keep up with > it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things and mine is no > exception. Do those of you with several tanks have other animals as > well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm just curious. > > Desire' in Louisiana, > Momma > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53106	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

Hi Pam! Reading all of this I was just wondering……………………… If you could get just a few more animals……………………. You might be able to get qualified as a “Game Preserve”! <G> Your vet bill must be unreal. Great hearing from you Pam, it's been a while, bill in pa --- On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:47 AM > > 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. > I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut > down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I > have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one > ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No > outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have > had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. > Plus lots of other cats and dogs. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: djransome@... > Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:11:54 -0500 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       Seven: > > > > 125G Lake Tanganyika cichlids > > > > 75G Lake Malawi mbuna > > > > 75G Lake Malawi haps and peacocks > > > > 38G Lethrinops Mbasi breeding tank > > > > 20G Lethrinops Mbasi fry > > > > 10G Lethrinops Mbasi fry > > > > 10G Lake Victorians (waiting for me to take them to LFS) > > > > _____  > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > question > > > > I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, 2 > dogs. In the > > more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet rabbit, and > another > > cat. The rats have since passed on, and I re-homed the > rabbit and extra > > cat, things were a bit overwhelming at times. > > I can't have out-door animals as I live in a condo, and the > association > > has LOTS of rules (some of them rather ridiculous). But some > day I'd > > love to have an outdoor pond if I get my own house, but with > the housing > > market I don't think I'll be able to sell my condo anytime > in the next > > few years. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/10/2012 9:52 AM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > > > > > I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can have so > many. But > > > yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, 12 > goats ( 4 goats > > > that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a Zebu > and 4 rabbits ( > > > meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian Dogs. > Those are > > > outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats ( > don't ask ) 2 dogs, > > > a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage of > various Finches > > > and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside now > since my illness > > > has progressed and my Partner tends the livestock, > which up until last > > > year, I also tended. My children are grown & gone > and have youngun's > > > of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their > animals with them or > > > the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk goats > before I had to cut > > > back. > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > Its awesome those of you that can have so many tanks > and keep up with > > > it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things and > mine is no > > > exception. Do those of you with several tanks have > other animals as > > > well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm just > curious. > > > > > > Desire' in Louisiana, > > > Momma > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >     >       > >     >     > > > > > > >        >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53107	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-----€¦â

I don't know either? Possible morse code? Ya, Yahoo Mail at its best! bill in pa --- On Sat, 2/11/12, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 12:23 PM > Hi Pam! > > Reading all of this I was just > wondering……………………… > If you could get just a few more > animals……………………. > You might be able to get qualified as a “Game > Preserveâ€�! <G> > Your vet bill must be unreal. > > Great hearing from you Pam, it's been a while, > > bill in pa > > > --- On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > question > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:47 AM > > > > 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right > now. > > I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may > shut > > down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then > I > > have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter > and one > > ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! > No > > outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I > have > > had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg > chickens. > > Plus lots of other cats and dogs. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > From: djransome@... > > Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 20:11:54 -0500 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > > question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > >   > > > > > >     > >       > >       > >       Seven: > > > > > > > > 125G Lake Tanganyika cichlids > > > > > > > > 75G Lake Malawi mbuna > > > > > > > > 75G Lake Malawi haps and peacocks > > > > > > > > 38G Lethrinops Mbasi breeding tank > > > > > > > > 20G Lethrinops Mbasi fry > > > > > > > > 10G Lethrinops Mbasi fry > > > > > > > > 10G Lake Victorians (waiting for me to take them to > LFS) > > > > > > > > _____  > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > > > > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:15 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > > question > > > > > > > > I also have a house-zoo. I have 4 Sun conures, 2 cats, > 2 > > dogs. In the > > > > more recent years I also had pet rats, and a pet > rabbit, and > > another > > > > cat. The rats have since passed on, and I re-homed the > > rabbit and extra > > > > cat, things were a bit overwhelming at times. > > > > I can't have out-door animals as I live in a condo, and > the > > association > > > > has LOTS of rules (some of them rather ridiculous). But > some > > day I'd > > > > love to have an outdoor pond if I get my own house, but > with > > the housing > > > > market I don't think I'll be able to sell my condo > anytime > > in the next > > > > few years. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 2/10/2012 9:52 AM, phyllis crubaugh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am disabled and am at home. That is how I can > have so > > many. But > > > > > yeah, I have many other critters as well. A horse, > 12 > > goats ( 4 goats > > > > > that must be milked ) chickens, turkeys, moos, a > Zebu > > and 4 rabbits ( > > > > > meat ) and 2 Great Pyranese Livestock Guardian > Dogs. > > Those are > > > > > outside. On the inside, I have the tanks, 5 cats > ( > > don't ask ) 2 dogs, > > > > > a Maroon-Bellied Conure, Breeding Budgies, a cage > of > > various Finches > > > > > and about 45 plants to tend to. I tend the inside > now > > since my illness > > > > > has progressed and my Partner tends the > livestock, > > which up until last > > > > > year, I also tended. My children are grown & > gone > > and have youngun's > > > > > of their own. Thankfully, they took most of their > > animals with them or > > > > > the list would be even longer! I had 36 milk > goats > > before I had to cut > > > > > back. > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its awesome those of you that can have so many > tanks > > and keep up with > > > > > it so well. Everyone knows their limits on things > and > > mine is no > > > > > exception. Do those of you with several tanks > have > > other animals as > > > > > well to tend to? Do you work outside the home? I'm > just > > curious. > > > > > > > > > > Desire' in Louisiana, > > > > > Momma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >     > >       > > > >     > >     > > > > > > > > > > > > > >        > >          > >            > >   > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & > ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > > replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that > is > > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC > of > > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. > "new > > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead > of > > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at > a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able > to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53108	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

Cool Pam! We used to have a hog farm in Illinois- tiny- about 150 head ( it takes thousands before you are actually considered serious about it there ! ) and we do raise 3-6 yearly here too. Forgot to mention it. I way here ya about the electric bill--If you get the LED's for the house light bulbs, it makes a huge difference. I use less now with every light in the house burning than I did with with ONE bulb before. Sigh... One day, when I grow up- I will get LED's for the tanks too. Prolly will have to wait for prices to come down though. In the meantime, making the house light bulb changes made a huge difference for us. Thought I'd share that. They can be bought nearly anywhere now- Walmart has them. ( Walmart haters- please keep it to yourselves- spouse works there ). Chris ________________________________ From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. Plus lots of other cats and dogs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53109	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

1 - 2.5 gallon betta 1 - 7 gallon betta 1 - 10 gallon freshwater 1 - 20 gallon freshwater 1 - 29 gallon saltwater frag holding tank(biocube setup) 1 - 30 gallon freshwater 3 - 65 gallon freshwater 1 - 75 gallon saltwater reef 1 - 90 gallon 1 - 120 gallon freshwater nursery 2 - 215 gallon freshwater Other pets, 1 dog, 1 sun conure, and 1 macaw (soon to be coming home from the ex's house). I have over 100 empty tanks (mostly large, 75 gallon or more) in storage but ran out of space to set them up since we bought this house. As for other pets, would have more if I could but we live just inside the city limits and ordinances limit us to "3 pets" and ban most of the other animals I want to keep such as snakes, octopus, sting rays, cuttlefish, and any species of shark. Hoping to eventually move outside of city limits as I have plans to breed octopus, cuttlefish, and would very much like another bali cat shark some day... just can't do that while living here. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > A question to all: > How many tanks do you have? > > I have 4. > 55g Tinfoils in the dining room > 5g Betta downstairs for Mom > 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. > ~Kai > > > > > "joe t" wrote: > > > > Hey, Ray > > > > Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? > > I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53110	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I could do it again. I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to buy some fish?? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: phylliscrubaugh@... Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:35:38 -0800 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam Cool Pam! We used to have a hog farm in Illinois- tiny- about 150 head ( it takes thousands before you are actually considered serious about it there ! ) and we do raise 3-6 yearly here too. Forgot to mention it. I way here ya about the electric bill--If you get the LED's for the house light bulbs, it makes a huge difference. I use less now with every light in the house burning than I did with with ONE bulb before. Sigh... One day, when I grow up- I will get LED's for the tanks too. Prolly will have to wait for prices to come down though. In the meantime, making the house light bulb changes made a huge difference for us. Thought I'd share that. They can be bought nearly anywhere now- Walmart has them. ( Walmart haters- please keep it to yourselves- spouse works there ). Chris ________________________________ From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. Plus lots of other cats and dogs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53111	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

Hi Bill, Well the 2 Shelties and 3 cats are mine, plus the fish. The Golden retriever was my mom's dog and I gave him to my ex-husband, so he is back here with him. The German Shepherd is my daughters dog. We are just lucky that they all get along. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to pay to take one of my Shelties into the vet. I believe he has congestive heart failure and needs to be put down. He can't do anything without coughing. We are trying to keep him as calm as possible, but every time he moves he coughs. It is tearing me apart as he was born in my house. I have had him all his life and I have shown him in obedience, so we are very close with all the training we did. Pam Hi Pam! Reading all of this I was just wondering��������� If you could get just a few more animals��������. You might be able to get qualified as a �Game Preserve�! <G> Your vet bill must be unreal. Great hearing from you Pam, it's been a while, bill in pa --- On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:47 AM > > 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. > I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut > down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I > have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one > ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No > outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have > had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. > Plus lots of other cats and dogs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53112	From: Judy Moon	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: (no subject)

I am wondering if there is someplace that has shelving units that will hold multiple 5 gal. tanks. I looked at the pet stores and the on line places. Judy Moon I serve a risen Savior John 3:16 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53113	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re:

Stainless steel kitchen racks may do the job. Costco sells them. Walmart may have them as well. Many people build there own out of wood. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Judy Moon <judymoon@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 11, 2012 12:36 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] I am wondering if there is someplace that has shelving units that will hold multiple 5 gal. tanks. I looked at the pet stores and the on line places. Judy Moon I serve a risen Savior John 3:16 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53114	From: Jaiko	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

Omg dawn mts all the way!!! dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: >1 - 2.5 gallon betta >1 - 7 gallon betta >1 - 10 gallon freshwater >1 - 20 gallon freshwater >1 - 29 gallon saltwater frag holding tank(biocube setup) >1 - 30 gallon freshwater >3 - 65 gallon freshwater >1 - 75 gallon saltwater reef >1 - 90 gallon >1 - 120 gallon freshwater nursery >2 - 215 gallon freshwater > >Other pets, 1 dog, 1 sun conure, and 1 macaw (soon to be coming home from the ex's house). >I have over 100 empty tanks (mostly large, 75 gallon or more) in storage but ran out of space to set them up since we bought this house. As for other pets, would have more if I could but we live just inside the city limits and ordinances limit us to "3 pets" and ban most of the other animals I want to keep such as snakes, octopus, sting rays, cuttlefish, and any species of shark. Hoping to eventually move outside of city limits as I have plans to breed octopus, cuttlefish, and would very much like another bali cat shark some day... just can't do that while living here. > >Dawn > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: >> >> A question to all: >> How many tanks do you have? >> >> I have 4. >> 55g Tinfoils in the dining room >> 5g Betta downstairs for Mom >> 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. >> ~Kai >> >> >> >> > "joe t" wrote: >> > >> > Hey, Ray >> > >> > Are you/can you honor us with a picture of your fish room? >> > I tore mine down and am in the process of building it up again. >> > >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53115	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

What fish are you looking to get rid of? I don't need any BN pleco's, mine are trying to breed me out of tank and home ;) But I may be interested in other fish, if you're serious about getting rid of some. Do you still have shrimp? I think I remember you saying last year that you sold most of yours off. Amber On 2/11/2012 11:14 AM, pam andress wrote: > Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I could do it again. > I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to buy some fish?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53116	From: bill 1433	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

Sorry to hear that Pam. My wife and I have been there done that (with the putting down). What always saved us? First, we have always had two dogs. When at first the dog we had when our son was born passed away, and we only had her, the whole house went into depression. After that, always two dogs. Should one pass, another in a few days. They are all shelter dogs or puppies that no one else wants. We help with an adaptation and get a new friend to boot! bill in pa On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 3:21 PM > > Hi Bill, > Well the 2 Shelties and 3 cats are mine, plus the fish. The > Golden retriever was my mom's dog and I gave him to my > ex-husband, so he is back here with him. The German Shepherd > is my daughters dog. We are just lucky that they all get > along. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to pay to take > one of my Shelties into the vet. I believe he has congestive > heart failure and needs to be put down. He can't do anything > without coughing. We are trying to keep him as calm as > possible, but every time he moves he coughs. It is tearing > me apart as he was born in my house. I have had him all his > life and I have shown him in obedience, so we are very close > with all the training we did. > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > >     >       >       >       Hi Pam! > > > > Reading all of this I was just > wondering……………………… > > If you could get just a few more > animals……………………. > > You might be able to get qualified as a “Game Preserve”! > <G> > > Your vet bill must be unreal. > > > > Great hearing from you Pam, it's been a while, > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > question > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:47 AM > > > > > > 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right > now. > > > I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may > shut > > > down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then > I > > > have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter > and one > > > ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! > No > > > outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I > have > > > had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg > chickens. > > > Plus lots of other cats and dogs. > > > > > > > > > >        >          >            >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53117	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question

I have raised, trained, and shown my Shelties for about 24 years. Until last year Munch was from my last litter. He is now 10 years old. Last year I had a litter and I was going to keep a male from it, as Munch was not doing that well then. I ended up selling him to a friend in my dog club. She is going to train and show him. Due to my health, I no longer train and show my dogs. I want to keep at least one dog in my life, but I do not know what breed any more. I love my Shelties, but I don't know if I want to breed my female again. It took forever to sell the males. Pam Sorry to hear that Pam. My wife and I have been there done that (with the putting down). What always saved us? First, we have always had two dogs. When at first the dog we had when our son was born passed away, and we only had her, the whole house went into depression. After that, always two dogs. Should one pass, another in a few days. They are all shelter dogs or puppies that no one else wants. We help with an adaptation and get a new friend to boot! bill in pa On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 3:21 PM > > Hi Bill, > Well the 2 Shelties and 3 cats are mine, plus the fish. The > Golden retriever was my mom's dog and I gave him to my > ex-husband, so he is back here with him. The German Shepherd > is my daughters dog. We are just lucky that they all get > along. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to pay to take > one of my Shelties into the vet. I believe he has congestive > heart failure and needs to be put down. He can't do anything > without coughing. We are trying to keep him as calm as > possible, but every time he moves he coughs. It is tearing > me apart as he was born in my house. I have had him all his > life and I have shown him in obedience, so we are very close > with all the training we did. > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pam! > > > > Reading all of this I was just > wondering……………………… > > If you could get just a few more > animals……………………. > > You might be able to get qualified as a “Game Preserve”! > <G> > > Your vet bill must be unreal. > > > > Great hearing from you Pam, it's been a while, > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Sat, 2/11/12, pam andress <pamandress23@...> > wrote: > > > > > From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> > > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's > question > > > To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012, 2:47 AM > > > > > > 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right > now. > > > I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may > shut > > > down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then > I > > > have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter > and one > > > ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! > No > > > outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I > have > > > had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg > chickens. > > > Plus lots of other cats and dogs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53118	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

I have a 10 gal tank with cherry shrimp, 15 gal with shellies (Neolamprologus multifasciatus), a live bearer (in 55 gal, not sure how many) I will have to look up the name, and a cichlid (in 72 Gal, 6 of them) that I will have to look up the name. In my other 55G I have Flame? delta guppies. Then of course I have tons of BN's. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: arberglund@... Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:38:52 -0900 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam What fish are you looking to get rid of? I don't need any BN pleco's, mine are trying to breed me out of tank and home ;) But I may be interested in other fish, if you're serious about getting rid of some. Do you still have shrimp? I think I remember you saying last year that you sold most of yours off. Amber On 2/11/2012 11:14 AM, pam andress wrote: > Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I could do it again. > I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to buy some fish?? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53119	From: pam andress	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

Live bearer is 6 or 7 ilyodon furcidens Cichlid is 6 Australoheros oblongum I believe I have 3 pairs. They are about 2 1/2- 3 inches right now.> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > From: pamandress23@... > Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:52:52 +0000 > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > > I have a 10 gal tank with cherry shrimp, 15 gal with shellies > (Neolamprologus multifasciatus), a live bearer (in 55 gal, not sure how many) I will have to look up the name, and a cichlid (in 72 Gal, 6 of them) that I will have to look up the name. In my other 55G I have Flame? delta guppies. Then of course I have tons of BN's. > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: arberglund@... > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:38:52 -0900 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What fish are you looking to get rid of? I don't need any BN pleco's, > > mine are trying to breed me out of tank and home ;) But I may be > > interested in other fish, if you're serious about getting rid of some. > > Do you still have shrimp? I think I remember you saying last year that > > you sold most of yours off. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/11/2012 11:14 AM, pam andress wrote: > > > Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I could do it again. > > > I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to buy some fish?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53120	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

I was in Mattoon, Illinois when we had the hog farm. About 1 hour south of Champaign. Now I am in the midlands of South Carolina. Wow! What a difference. The only crops that grow for diddly here are hay and ROCKS. All of my gardens are raised beds. The fruit trees struggle.   I am also disabled and have about the same income level. Thankfully, my Partner works because otherwise, we'd never be able to afford what we have.   I only get attached to the breeders- that is how I am able to do it. I have no problems filling my freezer with their offspring that way. I sell a decent number of milk-fed pigs each year and 1 or 2 moos. You simply can't beat knowing that every mouthful that your livestock have consumed is yak ( Pesticides & such ) free and so then is every mouthful you consume. We are about 80% self-sufficient here. I still buy staple goods and local grain ( from farmers that I have interviewed as to what they use ), but we grow our own meats, veggies, and many fruits. It's a great way to live!   Back to fish tanks- I would hang on to at least one of them. Basic lighting doesn't cost all that much and neither does an airpump & filter. It pays for itself in "wellness factor" because I know it has to help you with your mental health anyway. For me, the maintenance is my physical therapy and the results of my work is for my mental well-being. That counts for a LOT in my book. I prolly take less meds because of my tanks.   Hang in there!   Chris ________________________________ From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I could do it again. I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to buy some fish??                               Cool Pam! We used to have a hog farm in Illinois- tiny- about 150 head ( it takes thousands before you are actually considered serious about it there ! ) and we do raise 3-6 yearly here too. Forgot to mention it. I way here ya about the electric bill--If you get the LED's for the house light bulbs, it makes a huge difference. I use less now with every light in the house burning than I did with with ONE bulb before. Sigh... One day, when I grow up- I will get LED's for the tanks too. Prolly will have to wait for prices to come down though. In the meantime, making the house light bulb changes made a huge difference for us. Thought I'd share that. They can be bought nearly anywhere now- Walmart has them. ( Walmart haters- please keep it to yourselves- spouse works there ). Chris ________________________________ From: pam andress <pamandress23@...> 2- 55G, 1-72G bow front, 1-15G and 1-10G running right now. I have more tanks, but I'm trying to cut back. I may shut down more shortly as my electric bill is too high. Then I have 4 dogs, 3 cats, two grandchildren, one daughter and one ex-husband living in my house. It is a zoo here too! No outside animals since I now live in town limits, but I have had 3 pigs, 1 dwarf goat, and lots of meat and egg chickens. Plus lots of other cats and dogs. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]                                           [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53121	From: ScottW	Date: 2/11/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

1-55g peacock s and hap 1-35 j. dempsey 1-29 j. dempsey 3-10g angels, duckweed, white clouds, java moss 4-ponds goldfish, guppies / aquaponics no other pets yet. have had hermit crabs, salamanders, and frogs in the past. had cows, sheep, and horse while growing up. Will get more if we can get some land.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53122	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/12/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam

Wow I've never seen these cichlids before, beautiful fish! They remind me of jack dempsey's in color. Amber On 2/11/2012 5:10 PM, pam andress wrote: > > > Live bearer is 6 or 7 > ilyodon furcidens > Cichlid is 6 Australoheros oblongum I believe I have 3 pairs. They are > about 2 1/2- 3 inches right now.> To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: pamandress23@... <mailto:pamandress23%40hotmail.com> > > Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:52:52 +0000 > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > > > > > I have a 10 gal tank with cherry shrimp, 15 gal with shellies > > (Neolamprologus multifasciatus), a live bearer (in 55 gal, not sure > how many) I will have to look up the name, and a cichlid (in 72 Gal, 6 > of them) that I will have to look up the name. In my other 55G I have > Flame? delta guppies. Then of course I have tons of BN's. > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > From: arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:38:52 -0900 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What fish are you looking to get rid of? I don't need any BN pleco's, > > > > mine are trying to breed me out of tank and home ;) But I may be > > > > interested in other fish, if you're serious about getting rid of some. > > > > Do you still have shrimp? I think I remember you saying last year that > > > > you sold most of yours off. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 2/11/2012 11:14 AM, pam andress wrote: > > > > > Where in IL are you? I was raised in Harvey and now I live in > northern IN. I never thought I would be able to raise animals and then > eat them, but those chickens and pigs where the best meat!!!! Wish I > could do it again. > > > > > I am on SS and SSI as I am disabled, so I am only getting 700 a > month to live on. I took in my X as he cannot work anymore and got him > to file for disability. My daughter also filed for disability as she > has a medical condition that makes her pass out all the time. This > makes it very difficult for her to keep a job. No one wants to hire > her as she could get hurt in their business. So with only my 700 > trying to run this house, it is very difficult when my last electric > bill was over 300 bucks. I do use the LED lights where I can, but I > still think I am going to have to shut down more tanks. Anyone want to > buy some fish?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on > "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53124	From: k chen	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Hi, You can buy a metal shelving unit from IKEA, or industrial strength type. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: lfs_s@... Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:40:24 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] (unknown) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Moon" <judymoon@...> wrote: > > I am wondering if there is someplace that has shelving units that will hold multiple 5 gal. tanks. I looked at the pet stores and the on line places. > > > > Judy Moon > > I serve a risen Savior > > John 3:16 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > http://www.lowes.com/pd_71485-80752-182436C-DS_4294936624+4294965759__?productId=3473485&Ntt=shelving&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl_Real%2BOrganized_4294936624%2B4294965759__s%3FNtt%3Dshelving&facetInfo=Real%20Organized 10 on top, 5.5's on middle and bottom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53125	From: Ray	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Subject Line/Thread Description

Hi Judy, Please use the Subject line by inserting just what it is that you intend to write about. Without anything noted in the Subject Line, you message would be more likely than not, be deleted by many members here, as appearing to be no more than Spam. For those replying to Judy's message, the Subject Line should not remain blank; you need to fill in some name to this thread -- something like "Shelving for Tanks," etc. Many thanks, Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Moon" <judymoon@...> wrote: > > I am wondering if there is someplace that has shelving units that will hold multiple 5 gal. tanks. I looked at the pet stores and the on line places. > > > > Judy Moon > > I serve a risen Savior > > John 3:16 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53126	From: Judy	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Just learning about tropical fish (mostly bettas)

I'm sort of along for the ride until I can afford to start buying tanks and equipment for Bettas. Later I hope to have some other types (not in with the bettas). Also have to not get in too much of a hurry as my house goes on the market around May or June of this year. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Judy, > > Please use the Subject line by inserting just what it is that you intend to write about. Without anything noted in the Subject Line, you message would be more likely than not, be deleted by many members here, as appearing to be no more than Spam. For those replying to Judy's message, the Subject Line should not remain blank; you need to fill in some name to this thread -- something like "Shelving for Tanks," etc. Many thanks, > > Ray -- Moderator > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Moon" <judymoon@> wrote: > > > > I am wondering if there is someplace that has shelving units that will hold multiple 5 gal. tanks. I looked at the pet stores and the on line places. > > > > > > > > Judy Moon > > > > I serve a risen Savior > > > > John 3:16 > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53127	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

Guppies are suitable for ponds ? Is it inside or out? I'm curious to know more. Thanks! Desire' in LA ----- Original Message ----- From: ScottW To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:33 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam 1-55g peacock s and hap 1-35 j. dempsey 1-29 j. dempsey 3-10g angels, duckweed, white clouds, java moss 4-ponds goldfish, guppies / aquaponics no other pets yet. have had hermit crabs, salamanders, and frogs in the past. had cows, sheep, and horse while growing up. Will get more if we can get some land. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53128	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Just learning about tropical fish (mostly bettas)

Hello Judy! I am one of the folks that deleted your last entry w/o reading it 'cause of no subject line. So I didn't know you were new. I am new here too. Seems like a nice group of folks. You are right not to dive into tanks with a pending sale on your home. It would frustrate you I think. At least you were smart enough to join a group BEFORE you dived in- most don't, and their fish pay the price. I am not a Betta pro like some here, but have maintained at least one Betta bowl or tank over the last 40 years. Few fish are as easy to maintain, and they are so very beautiful! I'll defer to the Betta Pros answer your questions. Welcome to the group! Chris- the Oldfish   ________________________________ From: Judy <judymoon@...> I'm sort of along for the ride until I can afford to start buying tanks and equipment for Bettas.  Later I hope to have some other types (not in with the bettas).  Also have to not get in too much of a hurry as my house goes on the market around May or June of this year. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53129	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

Any fish that can handle the outside temps in your area can technically be put in a pond (although the goldfish will eat the smaller ones). I've heard of people keeping guppies and platy's in ponds, both breed prolifically and can give the goldfish another source of food besides plants/flakes or pellets. Amber On 2/14/2012 7:11 AM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: > > Guppies are suitable for ponds ? Is it inside or out? I'm curious to > know more. > > Thanks! > Desire' in LA > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ScottW > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:33 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > 1-55g peacock s and hap > 1-35 j. dempsey > 1-29 j. dempsey > 3-10g angels, duckweed, white clouds, java moss > 4-ponds goldfish, guppies / aquaponics > > no other pets yet. have had hermit crabs, salamanders, and frogs in > the past. had cows, sheep, and horse while growing up. Will get more > if we can get some land. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53130	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

Hi Desire', I don't think Guppies would last long in your pond with 3 hungry Koi on the prowl! John*<o)))< * On 14 February 2012 22:49, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Any fish that can handle the outside temps in your area can technically > be put in a pond (although the goldfish will eat the smaller ones). I've > heard of people keeping guppies and platy's in ponds, both breed > prolifically and can give the goldfish another source of food besides > plants/flakes or pellets. > > Amber > > On 2/14/2012 7:11 AM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: > > > > Guppies are suitable for ponds ? Is it inside or out? I'm curious to > > know more. > > > > Thanks! > > Desire' in LA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: ScottW > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:33 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam > > > > 1-55g peacock s and hap > > 1-35 j. dempsey > > 1-29 j. dempsey > > 3-10g angels, duckweed, white clouds, java moss > > 4-ponds goldfish, guppies / aquaponics > > > > no other pets yet. have had hermit crabs, salamanders, and frogs in > > the past. had cows, sheep, and horse while growing up. Will get more > > if we can get some land. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53131	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

Thanks for responding, Amber. I live in South Louisiana, so I'm wondering how guppies would do in our hot and humid climate? Would they do well in a smaller pond (150 gallon?)? When I move my koi to their larger pond that I'm planning to get dug at beginning of summer, this one would be empty. I would winter them (wha tever fish gets put in there- if any) inside. Since guppies stay pretty small, I thought they might make a suitable choice for a small pond. How many would I start with? I know they are livebearers...would it quickly overstock the size pond I mentioned with continuously breeding? I may or may not put a fish in the 150 gallon when I transfer the koi but had wondered if it was possible to keep a few small fish (and which kinds) in it during the warmer months. I would house them inside in winter if I did decide to do this. Since the kois get pretty big, that's why I'm trying to get them a larger and deeper pond dug so they can stay outside in winter too because they'd likely be way too big to go back in a 60 gallon, especially when there are three of them! Anyway I was just curious about the guppies being suitable for warmer weather pond living. It might be something for me to look into- if the size pre-formed pond I have would be suitable..and of course I'd have to put netting for their protection. Thoughts? Desire' in LA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Berglund" <arberglund@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds? > Any fish that can handle the outside temps in your area can technically > be put in a pond (although the goldfish will eat the smaller ones). I've > heard of people keeping guppies and platy's in ponds, both breed > prolifically and can give the goldfish another source of food besides > plants/flakes or pellets. > > Amber > > On 2/14/2012 7:11 AM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: >> >> Guppies are suitable for ponds ? Is it inside or out? I'm curious to >> know more. >> >> Thanks! >> Desire' in LA >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: ScottW >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 10:33 PM >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome- D's question-Pam >> >> 1-55g peacock s and hap >> 1-35 j. dempsey >> 1-29 j. dempsey >> 3-10g angels, duckweed, white clouds, java moss >> 4-ponds goldfish, guppies / aquaponics >> >> no other pets yet. have had hermit crabs, salamanders, and frogs in >> the past. had cows, sheep, and horse while growing up. Will get more >> if we can get some land. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53132	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a betta fish in it. Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. I tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but the media was too big and wouldn't fit. How often would I do a PWC for the 10 gallon- both without any fish in it and once I add a betta? What water temp is best for a betta? This particular tank (located in the same room as the 60 gallon, but opposite side of the room- closer to a window) is warmer, at 72-74 degrees. I did a water testing on it and there is ammonia, 0.50ppm and nitrite 0 ppm (probably obvious since I don't have fish in it). Any other advice about betta keeping would be greatly appreciated as well. I just plan to house one male in a 10 gallon - I know two males do not get along together. I"ve kept bettas before but its been about 6 years. Thanks in advance! Desire' in Louisiana [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53133	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

White clouds, just about any Tetra, about any livebearer- wags, swords, mollies, Guppies- either commons or fancy, smaller goldfishes, most tropicals- since you are talking warm months.  I have a friend that had success breeding Oscars in a pond too. How many to start? If you choose livebearers, a trio- 2 females, one male will make a pondfull in short order. If you want it to be ongoing, trade out a few males every coupla months to get new blood. They will be hardier. You would be taking them out of the pond for the winter? Then in early fall, set up a tank with a few of them to begin cycling the tank. Or, take them up to your LFS to trade for store credit on equipment and feed.   Just like with a tank, start small. Nitrogen cycle still applies.   On small ponds, it's a good idea to have a shade source over part of the pond. If there is not a natural tree, get a potted plant tree to provide shade for afternoon sun. On the bottom, provide a few places where the fishes can get away from each other and predators- like terra cotta pots, driftwood. I had a Greater Blue Heron stop in for lunch on several occasions- yikes! Throw in a few pond plants- a few floaters and a lily make great places for the fish to go under, fry to hide and they are beautiful as well as functional in taking up nutrients. You can get some duckweed, but you will have to keep it in check unless you have Mollies or goldfish to eat it. Most others can't keep up. I used to have to scoop and toss a bucketful monthly or it would take over.   I hope that helped you- Chris in SC ________________________________ From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> I live in South Louisiana, so I'm wondering how guppies would do in our hot and humid climate?  Would they do well in a smaller pond (150 gallon?)? When I move my koi to their larger pond that I'm planning to get dug at beginning of summer, this one would be empty.  I would winter them (wha tever fish gets put in there- if any) inside.  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53134	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. ________________________________ From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a betta fish in it.  Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it.  I tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but the media was too big and wouldn't fit. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53135	From: Ray	Date: 2/14/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the temperature and the pH. PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly afterwards. Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o rather than at 72 o. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a betta fish in it.  > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it.  I tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53136	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

I have to agree with Ray on this one, especially the temp. If a betta gets too cold they get lethargic and sick pretty fast. 78 - 80 is a good temp for a betta. And be sure to cover the tank... they are prolific jumpers and will need the humidity trapped between cover and water surface. If the air temp at the surface of the water is too much lower than the water temp the betta will get sick quickly. Colder air temp at the surface can drastically affect their body temp when they surface to breathe. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the temperature and the pH. > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly afterwards. > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o rather than at 72 o. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@> wrote: > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@> > > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a betta fish in it.  > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it.  I tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53137	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed- Ray

I could see the worry over a ( disgusting ) bowl. I can understand getting in a twist over a  2 1/2g- in which case, I would agree that it would require bacterial seeding. But a 10 gallon tank for one Betta? With a 2 gal change weekly? Any ammonia spike would be negligible and most tolerable. I'll concede to your obviously greater wisdom. I'll also have to dig up the many Bettas that have exceeded 5 and 6 years ( and one memorable fish- " Bubbles" at 11 weeks shy of age 7 )  of lifespan under my care over the years and apologize. Ya know, I am not always right just by virtue of the decades spent in fishkeeping. I accept that. My Bettas may have lasted even longer had I been aware of your advice. On the next go-'round with a Betta, I'll try it your way. The point is to give them as many happy years as is possible right? You are obviously knowledgeable- I'll concede the point. Chris   ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:22 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice.  I don't know why you're saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high.  Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the temperature and the pH.  PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the ammonia down.  Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless ammonium.  Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by having it cycle with fish in it.  Early on, and between PWC's the ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to convert it to nitrite.  As there will be no water conditioner being added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly afterwards.  Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o rather than at 72 o. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53138	From: ScottW	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

I can put just about anything in the aquaponics systems since they are heated and very well filtered by the plants. Guppies are going gang busters in there. I built a small greenhouse to cover my small ponds. I will be introducing Jack Dempseys to the systems soon. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > >  White clouds, just about any Tetra, about any livebearer- wags, swords, mollies, Guppies- either commons or fancy, smaller goldfishes, most tropicals- since you are talking warm months.  I have a friend that had success breeding Oscars in a pond too. > How many to start? If you choose livebearers, a trio- 2 females, one male will make a pondfull in short order. If you want it to be ongoing, trade out a few males every coupla months to get new blood. They will be hardier. > You would be taking them out of the pond for the winter? Then in early fall, set up a tank with a few of them to begin cycling the tank. Or, take them up to your LFS to trade for store credit on equipment and feed. >   > Just like with a tank, start small. Nitrogen cycle still applies. >   > On small ponds, it's a good idea to have a shade source over part of the pond. If there is not a natural tree, get a potted plant tree to provide shade for afternoon sun. On the bottom, provide a few places where the fishes can get away from each other and predators- like terra cotta pots, driftwood. I had a Greater Blue Heron stop in for lunch on several occasions- yikes! Throw in a few pond plants- a few floaters and a lily make great places for the fish to go under, fry to hide and they are beautiful as well as functional in taking up nutrients. You can get some duckweed, but you will have to keep it in check unless you have Mollies or goldfish to eat it. Most others can't keep up. I used to have to scoop and toss a bucketful monthly or it would take over. >   > I hope that helped you- Chris in SC > > > ________________________________ > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> > I live in South Louisiana, so I'm wondering how guppies would do in our hot > and humid climate?  Would they do well in a smaller pond (150 gallon?)? > When I move my koi to their larger pond that I'm planning to get dug at > beginning of summer, this one would be empty.  I would winter them (wha > tever fish gets put in there- if any) inside.  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53139	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

Since the filter media won't fit into the smaller filter on the 10 gallon tank you can just squeeze/rub the filter media onto the smaller filter media for the 10 gallon. This will help "seed" the filter for your betta much faster than letting it cycle with him in the tank. Amber On 2/14/2012 2:38 PM, Desire' A. Heatherly wrote: > > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > betta fish in it. > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. I > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > How often would I do a PWC for the 10 gallon- both without any fish in > it and once I add a betta? What water temp is best for a betta? This > particular tank (located in the same room as the 60 gallon, but > opposite side of the room- closer to a window) is warmer, at 72-74 > degrees. I did a water testing on it and there is ammonia, 0.50ppm and > nitrite 0 ppm (probably obvious since I don't have fish in it). > > Any other advice about betta keeping would be greatly appreciated as > well. I just plan to house one male in a 10 gallon - I know two males > do not get along together. I"ve kept bettas before but its been about > 6 years. > > Thanks in advance! > > Desire' in Louisiana > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53140	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed- Ray

Chris, Did I NOT ALREADY SAY that with one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank, that the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high? If you'll reread my reply, you certainly see that I did. I also said that ANY amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic, but that it could be lethal, depending upon the temperature and the pH -- and this too is very true also -- even with doing 2 gallon per week PWC's. I'm not saying that this is necessarily always true, and that the small amount of ammonia being generated will always be lethal or even toxic -- but if the temperature, and especially the pH is high enough it sure will be at least toxic and quite possibly lethal. I don't know your pH, nor do I know what temperature you plan on keeping your Betta at (although this latter parameter does not contribute to the toxicity as much as the pH does). Too, I don't know what others on this list have for their pH -- and as such I could never recommend as a blanklet statement, that introducing one Betta to a 10 gallon tank without it being cycled would be prudent. During a cycle -- which will be taking place in a new tank of water whenever a fish is added to it and produces organic waste -- the ammonia will spike first, approximately at between the 10th and the 12th day. If you do a 2 gallon PWC on day 7, there's still the distinct possibility than the tank will have enough ammonia in it before you do the next PWC at day 14, that it MAY be toxic -- if your water is highly basic. Add to this, while I can guess what temperature you'd intend to keep your Betta at -- since you feel that room temperature is alright for it (which it isn't), I don't know what temperature others here would keep their Bettas at -- and I need to consider others here, especially as a moderator, but even if I were not. I would hope that others would keep their Bettas at their fish's preferred temperature -- of at least 78 o -- which would add to the danger of cycling this lone fish in a 10 gallon tank if the water were high enough in pH to make the existing amount of ammonia toxic. It takes only 0.25 ppm of ammonia, at 76 o -- if one's water has a pH of 8.2 to become toxic to most fishes. This same small amount of ammonia will also become toxic if the pH were at 8.1, although the temperature would need to be 82 o. This is not a very high temperature for Bettas, and is definitely not a high temperature in the Summer when many people can't avoid their tanks reaching or exceeding this temperature. It goes without saying that the higher the tempertaure, the more toxic is even a small amount of ammonia, and more so at a higher pH. I haven't even touched on the nitrite yet -- which spikes between the 20th and the 24th day into the cycle. So, between day 14 when you make your 2nd PWC, and day 21 when you make your 3rd PWC, you may have a higher than tolerable level of nitrite -- especially as nitrite is much more toxic than ammonia. It may continue to build up after your 3rd PWC, even though you removed some of it with the PWC, and the elevation of it again, can be toxic. It's just not a good idea to cycle a tank with fish in it, and not knowing what pH we're even talking about you or another member wanting to keep a Betta has for this parameter in their water, I can't recommend doing this. You're doing well with keeping Bettas with as long as you're keeping them, but you don't need to be so sarcastic when describing this. Perhaps if you were to tell me what your parameters were in the very beginning I could have told you how safe they would permit you to start a Betta in a 10 gallon tank, but I can't say as much for others here if I don't know their parameters -- and I need to keep them in mind also since they may try something not recommended for their water parameters that may be dangerous, which you're able to do unscathed. No, I would venture that you're not always right just by the virtue of your decades spent in fishkeeping; I don't think anyone is. I know my 6+ decades in the hobby does not automatically mean that I'm always right. The more I learn about the hobby, the more I realize that there's so much more to learn. No one of us can or will ever be able to say we know everything. BTW, the time itself involved in the hobby is meaningless compared to the experiences we've had in learning along the way. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > >  I could see the worry over a ( disgusting ) bowl. I can understand getting in a twist over a  2 1/2g- in which case, I would agree that it would require bacterial seeding. But a 10 gallon tank for one Betta? With a 2 gal change weekly? Any ammonia spike would be negligible and most tolerable. > I'll concede to your obviously greater wisdom. I'll also have to dig up the many Bettas that have exceeded 5 and 6 years ( and one memorable fish- " Bubbles" at 11 weeks shy of age 7 )  of lifespan under my care over the years and apologize. > Ya know, I am not always right just by virtue of the decades spent in fishkeeping. I accept that. My Bettas may have lasted even longer had I been aware of your advice. On the next go-'round with a Betta, I'll try it your way. The point is to give them as many happy years as is possible right? You are obviously knowledgeable- I'll concede the point. > Chris >   > > > ________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:22 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice.  I don't know why you're saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high.  Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the temperature and the pH.  > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the ammonia down.  Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless ammonium.  Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by having it cycle with fish in it.  Early on, and between PWC's the ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to convert it to nitrite.  As there will be no water conditioner being added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly afterwards.  > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o rather than at 72 o. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53141	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome-Scott - Guppies in ponds?

Hi Desire', An idea regarding protection for Elle & her friends when they are outside. In the US you have more potential predators than we do in the UK so your security needs to be good because these scavenger are cunning & stealthy! In my opinion you can forget the plastic Herons, electronic fences & movement activated scarers-they are a waste of time & money, predators are not fooled. One of my customers was continually getting raided even though his pond was netted & the final straw came last year when a Heron attacked & injured 3 of his fish. Luckily all the wounds were superficial & have now healed up nicely but we have put up a sturdy net using fence posts so that the net is about 3 feet above the water whereas before it was only a couple of inches so the Heron would use his weight to drop into the water & it was only the fact that there was a net there that saved the fish as he was not able to close his beak through the netting. Once the new netting was in place he tried several times but was unable to reach the water-it was funny watching him trying to balance as if he was on a trampoline! Soon after he realised there were easier pickings elsewhere & he hasn't been seen since. The thing is that this netting is not visually obtrusive & the only real indication is the posts around the pond as the fine net is only visible close up. Another person I know has built a permanent roof over her entire pond & because her pond is rectangular it is in effect a large garage without sides which has several advantages. The pond never gets direct sunlight, it never freezes over & best of all you can view your fishy friends all year round whatever the weather & stay dry as this pond has been dug down to around 3 feet then has old railway sleepers round the edge so the actual depth is around 5 feet & the sides double as all-round seating. Obviously this set up is going to discourage many predators simply by it's enclosed nature & it is also sited very near to the house. There is another idea that I have heard of but have no practical experience with & that is the Winter domes & also steel pond covers-have a look at these 2 links-they're UK but may give you some ideas: http://www.dfs-pet-blog.com/2011/04/pond-cover-2/ http://www.harrodhorticultural.com/HarrodSite/pages/product/product.asp?prod=GDN-557&AffiliateCode=Google014&gclid=CLSL88nsoK4CFUcTfAodMwRp6Q&cookie_test=1 You may not have to go to such extremes but to make you aware of all the potential problems as you have snakes, rats, neighborhood cats, eagles, raccoons, foxes & I don't know what else. Just some ideas to think about, maybe some of the folks on here have some practical advice about any of these. John*<o)))< * On 15 February 2012 18:18, ScottW <diyscott@...> wrote: > ** > > > I can put just about anything in the aquaponics systems since they are > heated and very well filtered by the plants. Guppies are going gang busters > in there. I built a small greenhouse to cover my small ponds. I will be > introducing Jack Dempseys to the systems soon. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> > wrote: > > > > White clouds, just about any Tetra, about any livebearer- wags, swords, > mollies, Guppies- either commons or fancy, smaller goldfishes, most > tropicals- since you are talking warm months. I have a friend that had > success breeding Oscars in a pond too. > > How many to start? If you choose livebearers, a trio- 2 females, one > male will make a pondfull in short order. If you want it to be ongoing, > trade out a few males every coupla months to get new blood. They will be > hardier. > > You would be taking them out of the pond for the winter? Then in early > fall, set up a tank with a few of them to begin cycling the tank. Or, take > them up to your LFS to trade for store credit on equipment and feed. > > > > Just like with a tank, start small. Nitrogen cycle still applies. > > > > On small ponds, it's a good idea to have a shade source over part of the > pond. If there is not a natural tree, get a potted plant tree to provide > shade for afternoon sun. On the bottom, provide a few places where the > fishes can get away from each other and predators- like terra cotta pots, > driftwood. I had a Greater Blue Heron stop in for lunch on several > occasions- yikes! Throw in a few pond plants- a few floaters and a lily > make great places for the fish to go under, fry to hide and they are > beautiful as well as functional in taking up nutrients. You can get some > duckweed, but you will have to keep it in check unless you have Mollies or > goldfish to eat it. Most others can't keep up. I used to have to scoop and > toss a bucketful monthly or it would take over. > > > > I hope that helped you- Chris in SC > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> > > > I live in South Louisiana, so I'm wondering how guppies would do in our > hot > > and humid climate? Would they do well in a smaller pond (150 gallon?)? > > When I move my koi to their larger pond that I'm planning to get dug at > > beginning of summer, this one would be empty. I would winter them (wha > > tever fish gets put in there- if any) inside. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53142	From: phyllis crubaugh	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: - Ray

Ok Ray- you are right. I was being sarcastic, and for that I am sorry. It is pretty out of character for me and I do apologise sincerely to both you and the group. I think that you are a smart man with a lot of experience. I have only been in your group for a short time, but have watched anybody that speaks out get nailed. To be fair, you were apparently absent for a time and I could see that you were trying to unravel the issues. I had been about to bail out when you came back and wanted to see how it went.   Maybe I was weary of the "I am gonna present the facts and you are wrong" mode set forth prior to your return. Maybe you were weary of trying to unravel the BS via multiple replies to all of the whoopla in here lately and that is why your reply was shouted at the beginning.   You know  what? For the first 20 years I kept fish, I didn't even know what the heck Ph was. I just kept them and they did OK. If something didn't work, I tried something else. And I ( and the fish ) won way more than I lost. There was not much info out there, and I did the best I could- and it went pretty well. I am not well versed in the technical aspects of our hobby to this day. I do test and know what the testing means. Beyond that- not so much. I just keep fish- fresh, salt, brackish and they live, breed, and often exceed the normal lifespan in many cases. Sure have had some lulu screw ups I'll admit over the years too. I learned from them and moved on.   Obviously, this group has a fine leader with lots of experience and technical knowledge at their disposal. Y'all sure don't need me, 'cause all I have is practical experience and am way light on the technical stuff. The only things that I had hoped for was that I could give info in a way that average folks could understand, could learn new info, and I could find like-minded people to share my hobby with. I have found none of those things in here. I am not walking away mad, or being sarcastic or ugly, just sad. I have no desire for what I have found in here. You are absolutely right- no amount of years spent in a hobby is meaningful compared to the experiences one has had. And no number of years makes us exempt from further learning. I have never felt that I have learned all there was to learn, nor will I ever make such an assumption. <BG> But I think you are still full of hooey that a Beta can't make it and thrive in 10 g tank with 2 g w/c a week. I guess we shall agree to disagree.   I hope this group flourishes and becomes the best on the 'net. Blessings to all- Chris ________________________________ From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> Chris, Did I NOT ALREADY SAY that with one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank, that the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high?  If you'll reread my reply, you certainly see that I did.  I also said that ANY amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic, but that it could be lethal, depending upon the temperature and the pH -- and this too is very true also -- even with doing 2 gallon per week PWC's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53143	From: Ray	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: Chris; (was - Ray)

Hi Chris, I just want to point out, that I never said a Betta couldn't make it in a ten gallon tank without it being cycled first. You left out the part where I said the amount of toxicity depends on the pH and the temperature. While any amount of ammonia is stressful for a fish during the time the tank is being cycled with him in it -- and with PWC's to reduce these organic wastes -- the ammonia's and the nitrite's toxicity directly depends on the pH and the temperature. As your Bettas have been doing fine, obviously despite the fact you cycle your Betta containers with the fish in them, your water mustn't be very high in pH -- or at least not high enough to make ammonia toxic for the fish. This may not be the case for everyone here, so I can't recommend they follow your procedure as some of our members may have water of a high pH. Besides, why would anyone want to stress the fish unnecessarily if there's even the remote chance of some ammonia build up despite the PWC's, albeit, not to a toxic state? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, phyllis crubaugh <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > > Ok Ray- you are right. I was being sarcastic, and for that I am sorry. It is pretty out of character for me and I do apologise sincerely to both you and the group. I think that you are a smart man with a lot of experience. I have only been in your group for a short time, but have watched anybody that speaks out get nailed. To be fair, you were apparently absent for a time and I could see that you were trying to unravel the issues. I had been about to bail out when you came back and wanted to see how it went. >   > Maybe I was weary of the "I am gonna present the facts and you are wrong" mode set forth prior to your return. Maybe you were weary of trying to unravel the BS via multiple replies to all of the whoopla in here lately and that is why your reply was shouted at the beginning. >   > You know  what? For the first 20 years I kept fish, I didn't even know what the heck Ph was. I just kept them and they did OK. If something didn't work, I tried something else. And I ( and the fish ) won way more than I lost. There was not much info out there, and I did the best I could- and it went pretty well. I am not well versed in the technical aspects of our hobby to this day. I do test and know what the testing means. Beyond that- not so much. I just keep fish- fresh, salt, brackish and they live, breed, and often exceed the normal lifespan in many cases. Sure have had some lulu screw ups I'll admit over the years too. I learned from them and moved on. >   > Obviously, this group has a fine leader with lots of experience and technical knowledge at their disposal. Y'all sure don't need me, 'cause all I have is practical experience and am way light on the technical stuff. The only things that I had hoped for was that I could give info in a way that average folks could understand, could learn new info, and I could find like-minded people to share my hobby with. I have found none of those things in here. I am not walking away mad, or being sarcastic or ugly, just sad. I have no desire for what I have found in here. > You are absolutely right- no amount of years spent in a hobby is meaningful compared to the experiences one has had. And no number of years makes us exempt from further learning. I have never felt that I have learned all there was to learn, nor will I ever make such an assumption. <BG> But I think you are still full of hooey that a Beta can't make it and thrive in 10 g tank with 2 g w/c a week. I guess we shall agree to disagree. >   > I hope this group flourishes and becomes the best on the 'net. > Blessings to all- Chris > > > ________________________________ > From: sevenspringss <sevenspringss@...> > Chris, > > Did I NOT ALREADY SAY that with one fish of this size in a 10 gallon tank, that the ammonia probably wouldn't spike very high?  If you'll reread my reply, you certainly see that I did.  I also said that ANY amount of ammonia generated could not only be toxic, but that it could be lethal, depending upon the temperature and the pH -- and this too is very true also -- even with doing 2 gallon per week PWC's. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53144	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: algae on plants

Hi, is there a trick to get algae off the plants? We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the tank) I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in hot water maybe? Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. Thanks for ideas/advice, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53145	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: betta with other community fish?

Hi again, does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other community fish like platies or tetras? I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53146	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: algae on gravel

Hi again, I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53147	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Hello Nora; If I remember correctly the brown algae can be due to your tank reaching the end of the Nitrogen Cycle. Brown algae can be good in small, manageable quantities. It can also mean you are feeding the fish too much and not doing sufficient water changes. Algea can also be caused by the lighting you use. Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > is there a trick to get algae off the plants? > > We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the tank) > > I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... > How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in hot water maybe? > Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? > > My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. > > Thanks for ideas/advice, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53148	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. Dora On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi again, > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > community fish like platies or tetras? > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53149	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Feed less, reduce the light period and do lots of partial water changes to keep nitrates between 10ppm and 20ppm. You won’t have much algae. To remove from plastic scrub with a brush under running water. Yes, algae on the leaves of live plants will block light uptake and possibly kill the plant. Rub it off weekly with your fingers until you get it under contro. More live plants is a big help as well. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on plants Hi, is there a trick to get algae off the plants? We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the tank) I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in hot water maybe? Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. Thanks for ideas/advice, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53150	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

It certainly wouldn't kill the betta to be kept in a cycled tank. What most people do with bettas is just change part or all of their water each week, or every few days - that's if the betta is in an aquarium and not a jar. It's hard to run a filter and so forth in a betta tank because as I understand it a betta doesn't want to deal with deep water, maybe six or eight inches or something. Dora On 2/15/2012 12:22 AM, Ray wrote: > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're > saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in > -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish > of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike > very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated > could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the > temperature and the pH. > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general > maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only > be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the > ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as > part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at > those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless > ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by > having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the > ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to > convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being > added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the > fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly > afterwards. > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these > fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o > rather than at 72 o. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, phyllis crubaugh > <phylliscrubaugh@...> wrote: > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes > weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...> > > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > betta fish in it. > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. I > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53151	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel

Same answer. Control the algae so you don’t have the problem. Do you have algae or cyanobacteria? It commonly attaches to substrate which is why I ask. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on gravel Hi again, I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. Thanks, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53152	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Thanks, I will try that! It seem the live plant has a race with the algae in the moment: It grows new leaves and the algae occupies them while the plant grows more... I will also try to exchange the plastic with live, I only need to get the right snail free plants somewhere. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Feed less, reduce the light period and do lots of partial water changes to > keep nitrates between 10ppm and 20ppm. You won�t have much algae. > > > > To remove from plastic scrub with a brush under running water. Yes, algae > on the leaves of live plants will block light uptake and possibly kill the > plant. Rub it off weekly with your fingers until you get it under contro. > More live plants is a big help as well. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:02 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on plants > > > > > > Hi, > > is there a trick to get algae off the plants? > > We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are > covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the > tank) > > I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner > but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... > How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in > hot water maybe? > Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? > > My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. > > Thanks for ideas/advice, > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53153	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel

hmm..., how do I see the difference? The substance on the gravel has the same color like the rest. But it is only in the area where I do not use the gravel cleaner. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Same answer. Control the algae so you don�t have the problem. Do you have > algae or cyanobacteria? It commonly attaches to substrate which is why I > ask. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on gravel > > > > > > Hi again, > > I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is > only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel > suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53154	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

Hi, I saw videos on youtube with bettas (all females) in 10G, many plants and they were happy according to the owner... From what I read at different places I got the impression they might not like large open spaces but would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between. Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > It certainly wouldn't kill the betta to be kept in a cycled tank. What > most people do with bettas is just change part or all of their water > each week, or every few days - that's if the betta is in an aquarium and > not a jar. > > It's hard to run a filter and so forth in a betta tank because as I > understand it a betta doesn't want to deal with deep water, maybe six or > eight inches or something. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 12:22 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're > > saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in > > -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish > > of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike > > very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated > > could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the > > temperature and the pH. > > > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general > > maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only > > be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the > > ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as > > part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at > > those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless > > ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by > > having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the > > ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to > > convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being > > added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the > > fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly > > afterwards. > > > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these > > fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o > > rather than at 72 o. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, phyllis crubaugh > > <phylliscrubaugh@> wrote: > > > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes > > weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@> > > > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > > betta fish in it. > > > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. I > > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53155	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Hi Alex, I have those algae since a while and just cleaned them off the glass until now. I still do plenty of water changes but probably I use too much food...I think I cannot reduce the lightening too much because of the live plants. Good to know the algae are not too bad. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello Nora; > > If I remember correctly the brown algae can be due to your tank reaching the end of the Nitrogen Cycle. > > Brown algae can be good in small, manageable quantities. It can also mean you are feeding the fish too much and not doing sufficient water changes. > > Algea can also be caused by the lighting you use. > > Alex > Semper Fi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > is there a trick to get algae off the plants? > > > > We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the tank) > > > > I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... > > How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in hot water maybe? > > Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? > > > > My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. > > > > Thanks for ideas/advice, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53156	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G

Hi again, because of the topic of a betta in a non-cycled tank.... An example might be: right now I have 2 platies in a former hospital tank that is a couple of weeks old but not fully cycled yet (longer story why they are in there). I guess 2 platies might be the equivalent of one betta regarding the bioload ? It is a 10G tank but I still have to do daily 50% water changes to keep the ammonia below 0.25 ppm, additional with adding bacteria from several companies several times plus using a detoxyfier with each change. I read betta are hardy fish and probably can "take it" without maybe exhibiting obvious signs (in dependence of the other water values) but I would guess the ammonia will be there in similar amounts. How would you cycle an empty tank? I read ammonia drops: where do you get those? Other chemicals/additives? Using Fish food I read has a lot of phosphor and might cause excessive algae? I am not sure if we can transfer the platies again (they are horrified of the net) but we might need to put them back in the former "clean" tank... Thanks for reading and info, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53157	From: Wendie	Date: 2/15/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

When I bred the bettas I kept them in a 10 gallon tank without problems. However, once the males start getting their fins, the extra weight is a burden to their swimming ability. If their tank mates start nipping at the fins, you'll find them up near the surface hiding behind something. The females and male plakats can handle the 10 gallon tank. Wendie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed Hi, I saw videos on youtube with bettas (all females) in 10G, many plants and they were happy according to the owner... From what I read at different places I got the impression they might not like large open spaces but would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between. Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > It certainly wouldn't kill the betta to be kept in a cycled tank. What > most people do with bettas is just change part or all of their water > each week, or every few days - that's if the betta is in an aquarium > and not a jar. > > It's hard to run a filter and so forth in a betta tank because as I > understand it a betta doesn't want to deal with deep water, maybe six > or eight inches or something. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 12:22 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're > > saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish > > in > > -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish > > of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike > > very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia > > generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending > > on the temperature and the pH. > > > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general > > maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not > > only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to > > keep the ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite > > spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at > > those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless > > ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by > > having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the > > ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to > > convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being > > added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for > > the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly > > afterwards. > > > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these > > fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 > > o rather than at 72 o. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, phyllis crubaugh > > <phylliscrubaugh@> wrote: > > > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes > > weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@> Last Saturday I set up > > > a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > > betta fish in it. > > > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. > > > I > > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53158	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel

Cyanobacteria is blue green and slimy. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae on gravel hmm..., how do I see the difference? The substance on the gravel has the same color like the rest. But it is only in the area where I do not use the gravel cleaner. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Same answer. Control the algae so you don�t have the problem. Do you have > algae or cyanobacteria? It commonly attaches to substrate which is why I > ask. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on gravel > > > > > > Hi again, > > I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is > only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel > suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53159	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

Hi Dora, I'm not really sure where you're going with this, but yes, I agree, it certainly wouldn't kill a Betta (or any other fish) to be kept in a cycled tank. A cycled tank is where fish should be kept, as an uncycled tank could kill it. Yes again -- most people change part of the water each week (or every few days) for ALL their fish in aquariums, including Bettas. This is part of general maintenance. I can't agree as a blanket statement, that a Betta's (or any other fish's) water should be changed completely, although under certain circumstances it's perfectly allowable. In the Far East, many fish breeders use a constant flow of fresh water through their tanks and vats all the time. Their water's temperature allows it, and there are no additives being put in the water. I notice that you must have come under a misconception in understanding that a Betta doesn't want to deal witgh deep water. Just as Nora says, while they may not like large open spaces they enjoy much space (with lots of plants), and as Wendie states she kept them in a 10 gallon tank without problems. When I was breeding Bettas, that's all I used to breed and raise them -- 10 gallon tanks (which are 12" high). I've read though (however correct or incorrect), that some recommend not to use water over 8" high to make it easier for the male to gather up the falling eggs from the female during breeding, but I've never had a problem with that. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > It certainly wouldn't kill the betta to be kept in a cycled tank. What > most people do with bettas is just change part or all of their water > each week, or every few days - that's if the betta is in an aquarium and > not a jar. > > It's hard to run a filter and so forth in a betta tank because as I > understand it a betta doesn't want to deal with deep water, maybe six or > eight inches or something. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 12:22 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're > > saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish in > > -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish > > of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike > > very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia generated > > could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending on the > > temperature and the pH. > > > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general > > maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not only > > be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to keep the > > ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite spikes as > > part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at > > those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless > > ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by > > having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the > > ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to > > convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being > > added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for the > > fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly > > afterwards. > > > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these > > fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 o > > rather than at 72 o. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, phyllis crubaugh > > <phylliscrubaugh@> wrote: > > > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes > > weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@> > > > Last Saturday I set up a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > > betta fish in it. > > > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. I > > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53160	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53161	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Brown algae (also known as "Silica Algae") is the result of Diatoms -- a type of Phytoplankton. Just as Donna suggest with green algae, brown algae also occures when the nitrate is allowed to increase due to insufficient PWC's or, as Alex mentions, overfeeding. As they use hydrated silica to build their cell walls, it's said that they may derive it from any tank containing a silica substrate -- and most substrates used in aquaria are made of silica. I've occasionally had it in some of my tanks, but with having bare bottoms, so I'm not exactly how sure the accuracy of this statement is. Perhaps they get enough silica from the possible minute amount of it dissolving from the aquarium's glass, if that's feasible. It doesn't seem to need a lot of light though, as it often does best in the absence of green algae. I can't see that it has any benefit though, and really don't see any good it can offer. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > I have those algae since a while and just cleaned them off the glass until now. I still do plenty of water changes but probably I use too much food...I think I cannot reduce the lightening too much because of the live plants. Good to know the algae are not too bad. > > > Thanks, Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <AMejia1976@> wrote: > > > > Hello Nora; > > > > If I remember correctly the brown algae can be due to your tank reaching the end of the Nitrogen Cycle. > > > > Brown algae can be good in small, manageable quantities. It can also mean you are feeding the fish too much and not doing sufficient water changes. > > > > Algea can also be caused by the lighting you use. > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > is there a trick to get algae off the plants? > > > > > > We have live, plastic and silk plants in a 10 G tank and they all are covered in brownish algae...(together with the rest of the interior of the tank) > > > > > > I read about putting plastic plants in the dish washer with bleach cleaner but since I have only 2 plastic plants ... > > > How about silk plants: is there a trick I should know of? Just rinsing in hot water maybe? > > > Live plants: is the algae a problem for them or does it not matter? > > > > > > My live bearers love to nibble on the algae but it is a lot. > > > > > > Thanks for ideas/advice, > > > Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53162	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G

Hi again Nora, Thanks for airing your experiences here, about keeping your 2 Platies in a 10 gallon tank and explaining the maintenance needed to be done on this aquarium with frequent PWC's just to keep the ammonia down to 0.25 ppm. While not completely ideal (better if the ammonia were at 0.0 ppm), at least it hasn't been allowed to become toxic for these fish, undoubtedly due in part to your moderate pH not being excessively far from neutral. It does show though, how much ammonia can build up with only a very small bioload in a fair sized tank such as 10 gallons. Depending upon the size of your Platies, 2 of them could even be equal to 1 1/2 Bettas as Platies can get big even if not very long. Still, having to change out 50% of the water daily indicates how much organic waste only two such fish can produce for the size tank you were keeping them in. Bettas are fairly hardy, but even so, any amount of ammonia is stressful on any fish -- which shows why cycling a tank beforehand is always best for them. Cycling a tank without fish in it is easy to do just by adding "drops of ammonia," just as you mentioned. These ammonia "drops" that you talked about are just that -- drops of liquid household ammonia from a bottle. You need to use plain clear ammonia though, not sudsy ammonia; I think it's bottled as 10% ammonia. You need to maintain a 4.0 to 5.0 ppm level of ammonia in your fish-free aquarium during cycling. This is done by adding 3 to 5 drops of household ammonia. As each day passes, you'll need to add additional drops of ammonia to keep the level of it at between 4.0 and 5.0 ppm. Near the end of 10 to 12 days, you'll find that you may need to add less ammonia to keep the level at 4.0 -- 5.0 ppm, as it will be spiking at this time, but it should be allowed to spike as part of starting off the nitrite-consuming bacteria (there are two general and separate types of nitrifying bacteria used in the aquarium, those that first convert ammonia into nitrite, and those that then convert nitrite into nitrate as the second step in the cycle. From there on in, the ammonia will slowly drop -- unless you add enough more ammonia to keep the level up, which you'll need to do as you'll now need to start feeding the bacteria that converts the nitrite to nitrate. The nitrite level will spike at between 20 and 24 days into the cycle, then slowly start to taper off. When the ammonia and the nitrite levels remain at 0.0. ppm the following days that you're still adding 3 to 5 drops of ammonia each day, then you know that your nitrifying bacteria has become fully established as they'll be consuming every drop of ammonia you're adding at this time. At this time, you'll need to make some water changes before adding fish, as you'll need to get the nitrate level down. Needless to say, you need to make frequent use of your test kits to follow the cycle's progress. It's quite simple, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi again, > > because of the topic of a betta in a non-cycled tank.... An example might be: right now I have 2 platies in a former hospital tank that is a couple of weeks old but not fully cycled yet (longer story why they are in there). > I guess 2 platies might be the equivalent of one betta regarding the bioload ? It is a 10G tank but I still have to do daily 50% water changes to keep the ammonia below 0.25 ppm, additional with adding bacteria from several companies several times plus using a detoxyfier with each change. I read betta are hardy fish and probably can "take it" without maybe exhibiting obvious signs (in dependence of the other water values) but I would guess the ammonia will be there in similar amounts. > > How would you cycle an empty tank? I read ammonia drops: where do you get those? Other chemicals/additives? > Using Fish food I read has a lot of phosphor and might cause excessive algae? > > I am not sure if we can transfer the platies again (they are horrified of the net) but we might need to put them back in the former "clean" tank... > > Thanks for reading and info, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53163	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed

I usually bred my bettas in a small 5 gallon tank with the water level lowered just a bit. I kept the babies in that tank - over 300 of them at times - until they were a few weeks old. Then I set the 5 gallon tank inside the 10 gallon tank and slowly raised the water levels until they were swimming in the 10 gallon tank. They stayed there for several weeks - males and females - with the removal of only those aggressive males. Once removed, the male could never be returned to that tank and had his own tank at that point or went to a new home. Many of the overseas breeders in Asia use small earthenware jugs to house the bettas until sold or gotten rid of. I have to admit that I miss breeding them. It was always fun watching them stuff themselves with baby brine shrimp and get pink stomachs. They just got fat on the worms! Those little bellies sure could expand. Wendie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:08 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: 10 gallon for a betta- Advice needed Hi Dora, I'm not really sure where you're going with this, but yes, I agree, it certainly wouldn't kill a Betta (or any other fish) to be kept in a cycled tank. A cycled tank is where fish should be kept, as an uncycled tank could kill it. Yes again -- most people change part of the water each week (or every few days) for ALL their fish in aquariums, including Bettas. This is part of general maintenance. I can't agree as a blanket statement, that a Betta's (or any other fish's) water should be changed completely, although under certain circumstances it's perfectly allowable. In the Far East, many fish breeders use a constant flow of fresh water through their tanks and vats all the time. Their water's temperature allows it, and there are no additives being put in the water. I notice that you must have come under a misconception in understanding that a Betta doesn't want to deal witgh deep water. Just as Nora says, while they may not like large open spaces they enjoy much space (with lots of plants), and as Wendie states she kept them in a 10 gallon tank without problems. When I was breeding Bettas, that's all I used to breed and raise them -- 10 gallon tanks (which are 12" high). I've read though (however correct or incorrect), that some recommend not to use water over 8" high to make it easier for the male to gather up the falling eggs from the female during breeding, but I've never had a problem with that. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > It certainly wouldn't kill the betta to be kept in a cycled tank. What > most people do with bettas is just change part or all of their water > each week, or every few days - that's if the betta is in an aquarium > and not a jar. > > It's hard to run a filter and so forth in a betta tank because as I > understand it a betta doesn't want to deal with deep water, maybe six > or eight inches or something. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 12:22 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Sorry, but this is completely wrong advice. I don't know why you're > > saying that the tank doesn't need to cycle before putting the fish > > in > > -- as ALL tanks need to be cycled first, although with only one fish > > of this size in a 10 gallon tank the ammonia probably wouldn't spike > > very high. Still, not knowing the pH, any amount of ammonia > > generated could not only be toxic but it could be lethal, depending > > on the temperature and the pH. > > > > PWC's, such as the 2 gallons per week would be fine as general > > maintenance, but before the tank is cycled, these PWC's would not > > only be general maintenance, but would be essential in efforts to > > keep the ammonia down. Why subject any fish to ammonia and nitrite > > spikes as part of the cycle that we know will occur? > > > > Yes, with weekly PWC's, the addition of a good water conditioner at > > those times will ensure that the ammonia is converted to harmless > > ammonium. Still, this is not the proper way to start any tank by > > having it cycle with fish in it. Early on, and between PWC's the > > ammonia will build up as there will be no nitrifying bacteria yet to > > convert it to nitrite. As there will be no water conditioner being > > added at these times, this ammonia can reach a dangerous level for > > the fish -- and likewise with the nitrite, when that spikes shortly > > afterwards. > > > > Despite many hobbyists maintaining Bettas at room temperature, these > > fish prefer warmer water, so ideally they are best kept at around 78 > > o rather than at 72 o. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, phyllis crubaugh > > <phylliscrubaugh@> wrote: > > > > > > No need to cycle the tank first. Just do partial water changes > > weekly 2 gallons is good. Room temp for a Betta. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@> Last Saturday I set up > > > a 10 gallon aquarium to cycle so I can put a > > betta fish in it. > > > > > > Firstly, I need advice on how to cycle a tank without fish in it. > > > I > > tried putting filter media from my 60 gallon tank in the filter, but > > the media was too big and wouldn't fit. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53164	From: Wendie	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Acclimating new fish

I usually do the bag method but want to use a drip method on these particular fish. Does anyone know the rate of drip per minute that I should be using? Thanks Wendie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53165	From: Paul Gressling	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

I’ve kept my bettas in community aquariums for years. I have only had a few instances when the female needed to be remove. Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53166	From: William M	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: Multiple Tank Syndrome

Hello, I have been mostly a lurker here and enjoyed reading everyones post. I have just bought a house and plan on making a fish room the will be about 15 foot by 15 foot and I plan on putting in several central filtration systems so that it will be easier to do water changes. I plan on breeding fishes to try to make some money out of the hobby. Some of the fish that I will be breeding will be some of the more unusual angelfish strains. I will also be raising several kinds of fresh water inverts such as "killer snails", and several other kinds of snails (for sell) as well as the feeder snails for the killer snails, several kinds of shrimp and crayfish as dwarf crayfish, and if I can find them, there is an interesting invert that looks like a cross between a creyfish and a crab the comes from either South or Central America. If anyone knows of this animal and knows where I can get some I am all ears. Other fish that I plan on raising are killifish, some cichlids (dwarf), livebearing fish besides the common ones. I wil have to see how much room is left after that. I also want to raise meat rabbits or chinchillas (or some kind of small animal tha is easy to raise and sell that does not take lots of room or make much noise. I will be growing an organic garden so that I know how good the food will be (the rabbit manure will be one of the organic fertilizers for the garden and also have a worm ben for ghe garden ans for food for the fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have 6 tanks with fish in them, 2x10 gallon tanks with just water in > them and snails. and a 2 gallon bowl with just water and snails (I moved > the beta into one of my 10 gallon tanks after all the shrimp slowly died > off, don't think shrimp like my soft water even with crushed coral in my > tanks/filters). > > 125 gallon community tank > 55 gallon with 2 angel fish, red wag platy's, a BN pleco, and 2 crawfish > (new inhabitants, may move the angel's to the 125 gallon in the near > future if the crawfish get pestered too much). > 29 gallon with some guppy's and assorted Cory catfish > 2 x 10 gallon both with a single male beta in each. > 2 x 10 gallon (just snail/water) > 2 gallon bowl (snails/water) > > Amber > > On 2/10/2012 5:54 AM, kuradi8 wrote: > > > > A question to all: > > How many tanks do you have? > > > > I have 4. > > 55g Tinfoils in the dining room > > 5g Betta downstairs for Mom > > 2x 2.5g Betta here on my computer desk. > > ~Kai > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53167	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant.   Dora --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM   Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > Dora > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53168	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Hi Ray, I've had this Silica Algae on my plants when I had no substrate & my tank is acrylic! Do you think it can get enough nutrients just from the water? John*<o)))< * On 16 February 2012 12:53, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Brown algae (also known as "Silica Algae") is the result of Diatoms -- a > type of Phytoplankton. Just as Donna suggest with green algae, brown algae > also occures when the nitrate is allowed to increase due to insufficient > PWC's or, as Alex mentions, overfeeding. As they use hydrated silica to > build their cell walls, it's said that they may derive it from any tank > containing a silica substrate -- and most substrates used in aquaria are > made of silica. I've occasionally had it in some of my tanks, but with > having bare bottoms, so I'm not exactly how sure the accuracy of this > statement is. Perhaps they get enough silica from the possible minute > amount of it dissolving from the aquarium's glass, if that's feasible. It > doesn't seem to need a lot of light though, as it often does best in the > absence of green algae. I can't see that it has any benefit though, and > really don't see any good it can offer. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53169	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel

makes sense, the name is a giveaway then ;) Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Cyanobacteria is blue green and slimy. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae on gravel > > > > > > hmm..., how do I see the difference? The substance on the gravel has the > same color like the rest. But it is only in the area where I do not use the > gravel cleaner. > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Same answer. Control the algae so you don�t have the problem. Do you > have > > algae or cyanobacteria? It commonly attaches to substrate which is why I > > ask. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on gravel > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is > > only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel > > suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on gravel

To get rid of it one time, I would gravel vac just the surface. Thereafter I would control the algae to keep it away. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae on gravel makes sense, the name is a giveaway then ;) Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Cyanobacteria is blue green and slimy. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:53 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae on gravel > > > > > > hmm..., how do I see the difference? The substance on the gravel has the > same color like the rest. But it is only in the area where I do not use the > gravel cleaner. > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Same answer. Control the algae so you don�t have the problem. Do you > have > > algae or cyanobacteria? It commonly attaches to substrate which is why I > > ask. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:09 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] algae on gravel > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > I forgot to ask: what do you do about algae on gravel? Right now there is > > only part of it affected among the live plants. I cannot use the gravel > > suction cleaner there because I do not want to disturb the plant roots. > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53171	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Dora, I don't know if you've kept comminity tanks with Bettas in them at any time, but from what I'm reading here of your reply it sounds as if you may have. If so, them you mustn't have had a good mix of species for your Bettas to have hidden behind plants. You may even have had some more aggressive species which attacked, or tried to attack the Betta, although I'm not sure, and you may not even have observed this. While I don't keep community tanks anymore, any that I did keep that contained a Betta never induced such fear in the fish (Betta) as to have him hiding in the plants. All of my Bettas in community tanks were always out and around and in full view for anyone to see. While Nora did state that Bettas would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between, the extent that I can support this belief is that Bettas do enjoy a lot of space -- and, that most fish enjoy the security of plants (the more plants, the more security they offer), as being a nearby refuge they can seek shelter in if necessary -- if being chased by a predator for instance. I won't say there's a case of right or wrong here, my observations of Bettas in my community tanks showed me that these fish didn't try to hide in my plants, although they probably felt fairly safe having the plants there to hide in if they needed to. I hope this allows you to understand what to expect of Bettas when keeping them in community tanks, if you haven't done this before. Actually, unlike Nora's understanding of Bettas, I can only say that I've never observed Bettas to dislike open spaces as mine were just as often out in the open rather than swimming (but not hiding) among some plants. Getting back to the subject of the Betta's tankmates, this may have a lot to do with how the Bettas behave in the aquarium and how much they either prefer to hide or prefer to swim openly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant. >   > Dora > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM > > > >   > > > > Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. > > I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > > > Dora > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53172	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Hi John, You bring up a good point. Not being an algae expert, I can't give you an answer. That brown algae can grow in the apparent lack of silicone in it's environment would seem an egnigma, yet it apparently did under your circumstances. I don't know enough about brown (silica) algae to give you an answer. One thing that's somewhat puzzling here though is that you even had live plants in your tank when there was no place for them to root without having any substrate. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I've had this Silica Algae on my plants when I had no substrate & my tank > is acrylic! Do you think it can get enough nutrients just from the water? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 February 2012 12:53, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Brown algae (also known as "Silica Algae") is the result of Diatoms -- a > > type of Phytoplankton. Just as Donna suggest with green algae, brown algae > > also occures when the nitrate is allowed to increase due to insufficient > > PWC's or, as Alex mentions, overfeeding. As they use hydrated silica to > > build their cell walls, it's said that they may derive it from any tank > > containing a silica substrate -- and most substrates used in aquaria are > > made of silica. I've occasionally had it in some of my tanks, but with > > having bare bottoms, so I'm not exactly how sure the accuracy of this > > statement is. Perhaps they get enough silica from the possible minute > > amount of it dissolving from the aquarium's glass, if that's feasible. It > > doesn't seem to need a lot of light though, as it often does best in the > > absence of green algae. I can't see that it has any benefit though, and > > really don't see any good it can offer. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53173	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/16/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Other algae’s (not diatoms) can have a brownish coloration. Black brush algae can look brownish, black or red. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 12:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: algae on plants Hi John, You bring up a good point. Not being an algae expert, I can't give you an answer. That brown algae can grow in the apparent lack of silicone in it's environment would seem an egnigma, yet it apparently did under your circumstances. I don't know enough about brown (silica) algae to give you an answer. One thing that's somewhat puzzling here though is that you even had live plants in your tank when there was no place for them to root without having any substrate. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I've had this Silica Algae on my plants when I had no substrate & my tank > is acrylic! Do you think it can get enough nutrients just from the water? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 February 2012 12:53, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Brown algae (also known as "Silica Algae") is the result of Diatoms -- a > > type of Phytoplankton. Just as Donna suggest with green algae, brown algae > > also occures when the nitrate is allowed to increase due to insufficient > > PWC's or, as Alex mentions, overfeeding. As they use hydrated silica to > > build their cell walls, it's said that they may derive it from any tank > > containing a silica substrate -- and most substrates used in aquaria are > > made of silica. I've occasionally had it in some of my tanks, but with > > having bare bottoms, so I'm not exactly how sure the accuracy of this > > statement is. Perhaps they get enough silica from the possible minute > > amount of it dissolving from the aquarium's glass, if that's feasible. It > > doesn't seem to need a lot of light though, as it often does best in the > > absence of green algae. I can't see that it has any benefit though, and > > really don't see any good it can offer. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53174	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

I've found that it depends on the betta itself. I have a male that didn't like ANY other tank inhabitants, and would beat on them until they got injuries. I removed the catfish very quickly once I noticed the betta's actions. I've had female betta's live mostly peacefully in a community tank, but so far none of my males tolerate any other fish in the tank. My theory is it depends on how long that male betta has been living alone (either in a cup at the fish store, or alone in your tank at home), I think mine lived alone for too long and don't take kindly to another fish in their territory. I've seen males in community tanks at other people's homes, so I know it's possible. I just haven't gotten lucky yet I guess... Amber On 2/15/2012 4:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi again, > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > community fish like platies or tetras? > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > Thanks, > Nora > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53175	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Is it possible that there is silica in the water supply? Also there are more than a few live plants that don't require being planted to grow well. I have a lot of bacopa plants growing very well, floating around in my tanks. This is just one example, I have another plant I don't know the name of that is growing well that is a dark red w/ green and I just let it float (every time I plant it it just comes uprooted somehow, I think it's the current of the HOB filter moving the plant too much, the tank is full of BN plecos, swordtails, and neon/cardinal tetras). Perhaps John had several types of floating plants in his tank with no substrate? I have the red plant in some of my other tanks and it's planted in the gravel/soil, it seems to grow just as well as it does floating in my BN pleco tank. It dies if it grows out of the water though, where-as the bacopa grows just as well emergent. Amber On 2/16/2012 8:55 PM, Ray wrote: > > Hi John, > > You bring up a good point. Not being an algae expert, I can't give you > an answer. That brown algae can grow in the apparent lack of silicone > in it's environment would seem an egnigma, yet it apparently did under > your circumstances. I don't know enough about brown (silica) algae to > give you an answer. One thing that's somewhat puzzling here though is > that you even had live plants in your tank when there was no place for > them to root without having any substrate. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, SIMMONDS JOHN > <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > I've had this Silica Algae on my plants when I had no substrate & my > tank > > is acrylic! Do you think it can get enough nutrients just from the > water? > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 16 February 2012 12:53, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Brown algae (also known as "Silica Algae") is the result of > Diatoms -- a > > > type of Phytoplankton. Just as Donna suggest with green algae, > brown algae > > > also occures when the nitrate is allowed to increase due to > insufficient > > > PWC's or, as Alex mentions, overfeeding. As they use hydrated > silica to > > > build their cell walls, it's said that they may derive it from any > tank > > > containing a silica substrate -- and most substrates used in > aquaria are > > > made of silica. I've occasionally had it in some of my tanks, but with > > > having bare bottoms, so I'm not exactly how sure the accuracy of this > > > statement is. Perhaps they get enough silica from the possible minute > > > amount of it dissolving from the aquarium's glass, if that's > feasible. It > > > doesn't seem to need a lot of light though, as it often does best > in the > > > absence of green algae. I can't see that it has any benefit > though, and > > > really don't see any good it can offer. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53176	From: Wendie	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: Kuhlis

Has anyone ever had experience with breeding Kuhlis? Wendie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53177	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

No, I haven't tried it, I'm asking it to determine if I'd want to try it.   People here are consistently saying that if a 10 to 20 gallon tank is full of water or if there are other fish in the water, you'll never see that betta, and you'll certainly never see the betta swimming around doing his betta little thing.   That's the whole point of having a betta.   Who wants a colorful fish they never see, or never see move?   Unless they really wanted a tank decoration hiding behind a rock.    So, once again.  Are you all saying that if I put a betta in a normal tank I will never see said betta out swimming around?   Dora --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 11:39 PM   Dora, I don't know if you've kept comminity tanks with Bettas in them at any time, but from what I'm reading here of your reply it sounds as if you may have. If so, them you mustn't have had a good mix of species for your Bettas to have hidden behind plants. You may even have had some more aggressive species which attacked, or tried to attack the Betta, although I'm not sure, and you may not even have observed this. While I don't keep community tanks anymore, any that I did keep that contained a Betta never induced such fear in the fish (Betta) as to have him hiding in the plants. All of my Bettas in community tanks were always out and around and in full view for anyone to see. While Nora did state that Bettas would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between, the extent that I can support this belief is that Bettas do enjoy a lot of space -- and, that most fish enjoy the security of plants (the more plants, the more security they offer), as being a nearby refuge they can seek shelter in if necessary -- if being chased by a predator for instance. I won't say there's a case of right or wrong here, my observations of Bettas in my community tanks showed me that these fish didn't try to hide in my plants, although they probably felt fairly safe having the plants there to hide in if they needed to. I hope this allows you to understand what to expect of Bettas when keeping them in community tanks, if you haven't done this before. Actually, unlike Nora's understanding of Bettas, I can only say that I've never observed Bettas to dislike open spaces as mine were just as often out in the open rather than swimming (but not hiding) among some plants. Getting back to the subject of the Betta's tankmates, this may have a lot to do with how the Bettas behave in the aquarium and how much they either prefer to hide or prefer to swim openly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant. >   > Dora > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM > > > >   > > > > Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. > > I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > > > Dora > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53178	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Hi Ray, just wanted to mention: it is not my personal opinion that they dislike open spaces. It is only my explanation for the reports of others who claim their betta felt uncomfortable in a big or deep tank. I read bettas often live in planted rice fields. So I could understand if they might like to swim around in larger areas while at the same time prefer rather lots of plants in it. I never had a betta but if I will have one I would try to put it in as big a tank as possible (in our case 10G) because it just seems natural to me that they would enjoy room for exploration. Even if they might survive in little spaces I would always think it would be wise to go with as much space as possible. If people claim their betta was perfectly happy in their bowl I personally believe the fish was just glad to escape the mini container in the fish shop and never knew how much space could be available. Probably they also might need adjustment time from their mini container to sudden swimming spaces. But I would doubt that fish would prefer a small container to a big one if given the choice... ooopps, time to stop ;) Thanks for reading, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > I don't know if you've kept comminity tanks with Bettas in them at any time, but from what I'm reading here of your reply it sounds as if you may have. If so, them you mustn't have had a good mix of species for your Bettas to have hidden behind plants. You may even have had some more aggressive species which attacked, or tried to attack the Betta, although I'm not sure, and you may not even have observed this. > > While I don't keep community tanks anymore, any that I did keep that contained a Betta never induced such fear in the fish (Betta) as to have him hiding in the plants. All of my Bettas in community tanks were always out and around and in full view for anyone to see. While Nora did state that Bettas would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between, the extent that I can support this belief is that Bettas do enjoy a lot of space -- and, that most fish enjoy the security of plants (the more plants, the more security they offer), as being a nearby refuge they can seek shelter in if necessary -- if being chased by a predator for instance. > > I won't say there's a case of right or wrong here, my observations of Bettas in my community tanks showed me that these fish didn't try to hide in my plants, although they probably felt fairly safe having the plants there to hide in if they needed to. I hope this allows you to understand what to expect of Bettas when keeping them in community tanks, if you haven't done this before. Actually, unlike Nora's understanding of Bettas, I can only say that I've never observed Bettas to dislike open spaces as mine were just as often out in the open rather than swimming (but not hiding) among some plants. Getting back to the subject of the Betta's tankmates, this may have a lot to do with how the Bettas behave in the aquarium and how much they either prefer to hide or prefer to swim openly. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant. > >   > > Dora > > > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. > > > > I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > > > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > > > > > Dora > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53179	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: New Fish I am Interested In....

Hi to Ray and All! Having bred German Blue Rams and long fin albino ancistrus successfully this past year, I would now like to try my hand at some Africans....my LFS guy recommended these shell dweller species from Lake Tanganiyka: neolaprologus multifaciatus and lamprologus ocellatus gold Can anyone out there share their experiences and recommend a good source for them? I have been looking around...I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area. Thanks for any info - I totally appreciate this group.... Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53180	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: shipping fish?

Hi, is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how long does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be interested in in the future (if we should get a bigger tank somewhen...). How safe is it for the fish and how healthy are they usually? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53181	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?

It is a common practice. They are packed the same as when you bring them home from the fish store, except within a Styrofoam box to maintain temperature. If it’s cold a heat pack may be used inside. The fish are healthy and safe. After all they had to get here all the way from Africa (or wherever yours are from). I prefer overnight shipping and I arrange to work from home on the day they arrive so I can get them in the tanks promptly. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? Hi, is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how long does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be interested in in the future (if we should get a bigger tank somewhen...). How safe is it for the fish and how healthy are they usually? Thanks, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53182	From: Wendie	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?

I've dealt with the same importer for about 5 to 6 years now and have been very happy with everything I've gotten from him. I'm able to get fish that are not normally offered in a pet store. I, myself, have shipped bettas to various stateside locations with no problems. Wendie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? It is a common practice. They are packed the same as when you bring them home from the fish store, except within a Styrofoam box to maintain temperature. If it’s cold a heat pack may be used inside. The fish are healthy and safe. After all they had to get here all the way from Africa (or wherever yours are from). I prefer overnight shipping and I arrange to work from home on the day they arrive so I can get them in the tanks promptly. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? Hi, is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how long does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be interested in in the future (if we should get a bigger tank somewhen...). How safe is it for the fish and how healthy are they usually? Thanks, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53183	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?

On 2/17/2012 9:21 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi, > > is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how > long does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? > The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be > interested in in the future (if we should get a bigger tank > somewhen...). How safe is it for the fish and how healthy are they > usually? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53184	From: Ray	Date: 2/17/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Hi Nora, Okay, it's good to know your take on how much room and/or open space Bettas might enjoy, which would coincide with what most have seen of these fish. All of what you're saying makes sense, especially the part that reminds us all that these fish are normally displayed and sold in very small containers and sometimes need adjusting to their new, more spacious surroundings when they're brought home. As each one is different, some may need more time to adjust to their sudden "freedom" than others, while others take to their more spacious tanks immediately. This could explain why there are some hobbyists who erroneously feel that Bettas appear to "prefer" hiding, which is not their normal behavior if it's any behavior of a few of them at all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > just wanted to mention: it is not my personal opinion that they dislike open spaces. It is only my explanation for the reports of others who claim their betta felt uncomfortable in a big or deep tank. I read bettas often live in planted rice fields. So I could understand if they might like to swim around in larger areas while at the same time prefer rather lots of plants in it. > > I never had a betta but if I will have one I would try to put it in as big a tank as possible (in our case 10G) because it just seems natural to me that they would enjoy room for exploration. Even if they might survive in little spaces I would always think it would be wise to go with as much space as possible. > If people claim their betta was perfectly happy in their bowl I personally believe the fish was just glad to escape the mini container in the fish shop and never knew how much space could be available. Probably they also might need adjustment time from their mini container to sudden swimming spaces. But I would doubt that fish would prefer a small container to a big one if given the choice... > > ooopps, time to stop ;) > > Thanks for reading, > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > I don't know if you've kept comminity tanks with Bettas in them at any time, but from what I'm reading here of your reply it sounds as if you may have. If so, them you mustn't have had a good mix of species for your Bettas to have hidden behind plants. You may even have had some more aggressive species which attacked, or tried to attack the Betta, although I'm not sure, and you may not even have observed this. > > > > While I don't keep community tanks anymore, any that I did keep that contained a Betta never induced such fear in the fish (Betta) as to have him hiding in the plants. All of my Bettas in community tanks were always out and around and in full view for anyone to see. While Nora did state that Bettas would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between, the extent that I can support this belief is that Bettas do enjoy a lot of space -- and, that most fish enjoy the security of plants (the more plants, the more security they offer), as being a nearby refuge they can seek shelter in if necessary -- if being chased by a predator for instance. > > > > I won't say there's a case of right or wrong here, my observations of Bettas in my community tanks showed me that these fish didn't try to hide in my plants, although they probably felt fairly safe having the plants there to hide in if they needed to. I hope this allows you to understand what to expect of Bettas when keeping them in community tanks, if you haven't done this before. Actually, unlike Nora's understanding of Bettas, I can only say that I've never observed Bettas to dislike open spaces as mine were just as often out in the open rather than swimming (but not hiding) among some plants. Getting back to the subject of the Betta's tankmates, this may have a lot to do with how the Bettas behave in the aquarium and how much they either prefer to hide or prefer to swim openly. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant. > > >   > > > Dora > > > > > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. > > > > > > I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > > > > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > > > > > > > Dora > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > > > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > > > > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > > > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > > > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > > > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53185	From: Ray	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Hi Dora, By and large (for the most part), most reports of observations of Bettas describe them as preferring to swim throughout the environment of their aquariums. Those few reports you may have read of these fish preferring to hide may be isolated cases, if some do show this behavior. Those that may be seen to hide could have various reasons to do so, if that's what's occasionally seen, and these reasons could be anything from having tankmates that were nipping the Betta's fins to the occasionally different personalities of the Bettas themselves which may need additional time for them to adjust to a tank (of any size) after they've been confined to their small jars for any length of time. Then too, there may be a few Bettas -- which, just as most others, have been confined to their jars before being sold -- and which just may have lost their ability to know how to coexist with other fishes as they've been deprived of any freedom which would allow them the experience to intermingle with any other fishes or know what to expect from them. Just as we need to be careful of which other fish we include in a community tank when maintaining a Betta in the same aquarium (because of some other fishes' aggressiveness and/or their propensity for fin nipping), so too, to a lesser degree we need to take into account both some more than usual timidness of other fish and those other fish (such as fancy Guppies) which may look somewhat similar to a Betta and provocate a Betta's fighting instinct. Both of these last two factors are things that need to be considered when placing a Betta into an aquarium with other fishes, not because of any tendency that they may hide, but because of how they may get along with other fish. As has been recommended here a number of times in the past, don't include fancy Guppies in the same tank as Bettas or the Guppies may be attacked. Then too, don't include fish like Tiger Barbs which are notorious for nipping fins, nor even fish such as Endlers Livebearers which are described as being nippy and more aggressive. There may be occassional Swordtails which might be nippy towards a Betta too, but as you can see here, this comes back to the individual behavior of the fish -- not the Betta's individual behavior this time, but the different behavior of any one of the fish that are put with the Betta. More individualistic behavior such as this is most often seen in fish, such as Livebearers, Killiefish, Anabantids, Cichlids and others which do their own thing in the aquarium rather than all of the group behaving similarly as in schooling fish; schooling fish being Tetras and Barbs, etc. As I noted above, care also needs to be considered when intermixing a Betta with more timid fish, which a Betta may take the advantage of if his fighting instinct kicks in. This doesn't happen very often, except when probably encountering fancy Guppies, but may sometimes happen on other rare occasions when housed with young and unsuspecting fish that would not be aware of a Betta's possible motives of behavior if his aggressiveness kicked in. I had one Betta (in a 15 gallon community tank) that was placed in the tank that contained all peaceful fish, including about half a dozen young quarter-size Angelfish. This one Betta would come up along side the unsuspecting Angelfish and suddenly attack them by biting their eye out. Once I saw this, I of course promptly removed him, but I can only attribute his very-different-from-normal behavior as resulting from being "stir-crazy" from being in confinement in his tiny display jar in the LFS -- like being in solitary confinement, and being put in "the hole" (a very small area of imprisonment). Aside from these few incidentals, as long as you have a few plants to add to the tank for a Betta's (or any other fish's) security, I think it's well worth giving a Betta a try in a community tank. I doubt very much that it will hide. If you're unsure about how it may interact with your present fishes, let us know what else you have in your tank to allow us to consider his or their behavior towards each other, and get back to you on this. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > No, I haven't tried it, I'm asking it to determine if I'd want to try it. >   > People here are consistently saying that if a 10 to 20 gallon tank is full of water or if there are other fish in the water, you'll never see that betta, and you'll certainly never see the betta swimming around doing his betta little thing.   That's the whole point of having a betta.   Who wants a colorful fish they never see, or never see move?   Unless they really wanted a tank decoration hiding behind a rock.  >   > So, once again.  Are you all saying that if I put a betta in a normal tank I will never see said betta out swimming around? >   > Dora > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 11:39 PM > > > >   > > > > Dora, > > I don't know if you've kept comminity tanks with Bettas in them at any time, but from what I'm reading here of your reply it sounds as if you may have. If so, them you mustn't have had a good mix of species for your Bettas to have hidden behind plants. You may even have had some more aggressive species which attacked, or tried to attack the Betta, although I'm not sure, and you may not even have observed this. > > While I don't keep community tanks anymore, any that I did keep that contained a Betta never induced such fear in the fish (Betta) as to have him hiding in the plants. All of my Bettas in community tanks were always out and around and in full view for anyone to see. While Nora did state that Bettas would enjoy much space with many plants to hide in between, the extent that I can support this belief is that Bettas do enjoy a lot of space -- and, that most fish enjoy the security of plants (the more plants, the more security they offer), as being a nearby refuge they can seek shelter in if necessary -- if being chased by a predator for instance. > > I won't say there's a case of right or wrong here, my observations of Bettas in my community tanks showed me that these fish didn't try to hide in my plants, although they probably felt fairly safe having the plants there to hide in if they needed to. I hope this allows you to understand what to expect of Bettas when keeping them in community tanks, if you haven't done this before. Actually, unlike Nora's understanding of Bettas, I can only say that I've never observed Bettas to dislike open spaces as mine were just as often out in the open rather than swimming (but not hiding) among some plants. Getting back to the subject of the Betta's tankmates, this may have a lot to do with how the Bettas behave in the aquarium and how much they either prefer to hide or prefer to swim openly. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > From what I've seen in this discussion, if you have a betta in a 20 gallon tank with other fish, do you often SEE it?    I mean, that's the main point of keeping a betta.   I really wouldn't want one that's going to spend its days sitting stock still behind a plant. > >   > > Dora > > > > --- On Thu, 2/16/12, Ray <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > From: Ray <sevenspringss@> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: betta with other community fish? > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012, 6:18 AM > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > Yes, that's probably the main issue with keeping a Betta in a community tank -- fin nipping -- by other fish, with the Betta getting the worst of it. (they're not particularly fast swimmers and they don't fend for themselves except against other Bettas. You need to choose the tankmates more carefully to help preclude this from happening. > > > > I've often kept Bettas (single males) in community tanks in the past without problem, so yes, it can certainly be done. They don't necessarily need shallow water either, as I'd keep them in 15 and 20 gallon community tanks and they did just fine. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > I think one issue is fin nipping. Also I think that bettas basically > > > need a different, much shallow environment than other aquarium fish. > > > > > > Dora > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/2012 7:05 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > does anybody has experience with betta fish together with other > > > > community fish like platies or tetras? > > > > > > > > I read it should be possible and seems to be done quite often, > > > > anything one should look out for? How likely is it that a betta does > > > > not get a long with the others ? I am aware that the other fish better > > > > not have long fins and look alike another betta, but apart from that? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53186	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Fish I am Interested In....

Clare, Come join us at the PCCA meeting in March. Same location that the SVAS meets at and some of us belong to both clubs. I have bought the Multifasciatus at the meetings before as well as other dwarf cichlids. Tell you what, I will post that someone is looking for what you have listed on our facebook page and maybe a member will bring some next month. Mike G. www.Cichlidworld.com -----Original Message----- From: cobra427lady <clare@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 6:08 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] New Fish I am Interested In.... Hi to Ray and All! Having bred German Blue Rams and long fin albino ancistrus successfully this past year, I would now like to try my hand at some Africans....my LFS guy recommended these shell dweller species from Lake Tanganiyka: neolaprologus multifaciatus and lamprologus ocellatus gold Can anyone out there share their experiences and recommend a good source for them? I have been looking around...I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area. Thanks for any info - I totally appreciate this group.... Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53187	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: algae on plants

Hi Ray & Amber, Sorry for the confusion-I omitted to say that when my tank had no substrate the plants were in regular clay pots although there were a few that free-floated but this was mainly from the destructive explorations of my Goldfish rather than by design! I do have gravel now but my plants remain in pots because the fish will still dig them up from the gravel & it is difficult to vac the gravel when you have delicate roots to worry about. With the pots I just move them, vac underneath & replace them on the clean gravel. John. On 17 February 2012 09:23, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Is it possible that there is silica in the water supply? > Also there are more than a few live plants that don't require being > planted to grow well. I have a lot of bacopa plants growing very well, > floating around in my tanks. This is just one example, I have another > plant I don't know the name of that is growing well that is a dark red > w/ green and I just let it float (every time I plant it it just comes > uprooted somehow, I think it's the current of the HOB filter moving the > plant too much, the tank is full of BN plecos, swordtails, and > neon/cardinal tetras). Perhaps John had several types of floating plants > in his tank with no substrate? > I have the red plant in some of my other tanks and it's planted in the > gravel/soil, it seems to grow just as well as it does floating in my BN > pleco tank. It dies if it grows out of the water though, where-as the > bacopa grows just as well emergent. > > Amber > > On 2/16/2012 8:55 PM, Ray wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > You bring up a good point. Not being an algae expert, I can't give you > > an answer. That brown algae can grow in the apparent lack of silicone > > in it's environment would seem an egnigma, yet it apparently did under > > your circumstances. I don't know enough about brown (silica) algae to > > give you an answer. One thing that's somewhat puzzling here though is > > that you even had live plants in your tank when there was no place for > > them to root without having any substrate. > > > > Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53188	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

What about a 20 gallon tank with pristella tetras and danios? Also, do bettas prefer it calm? I have a couple of filters and an airstone going. Dora On 2/18/2012 2:30 AM, Ray wrote: > > Hi Dora, > > By and large (for the most part), most reports of observations of > Bettas describe them as preferring to swim throughout the environment > of their aquariums. Those few reports you may have read of these fish > preferring to hide may be isolated cases, if some do show this > behavior. Those that may be seen to hide could have various reasons to > do so, if that's what's occasionally seen, and these reasons could be > anything from having tankmates that were nipping the Betta's fins to > the occasionally different personalities of the Bettas themselves > which may need additional time for them to adjust to a tank (of any > size) after they've been confined to their small jars for any length > of time. > > Then too, there may be a few Bettas -- which, just as most others, > have been confined to their jars before being sold -- and which just > may have lost their ability to know how to coexist with other fishes > as they've been deprived of any freedom which would allow them the > experience to intermingle with any other fishes or know what to expect > from them. Just as we need to be careful of which other fish we > include in a community tank when maintaining a Betta in the same > aquarium (because of some other fishes' aggressiveness and/or their > propensity for fin nipping), so too, to a lesser degree we need to > take into account both some more than usual timidness of other fish > and those other fish (such as fancy Guppies) which may look somewhat > similar to a Betta and provocate a Betta's fighting instinct. > > Both of these last two factors are things that need to be considered > when placing a Betta into an aquarium with other fishes, not because > of any tendency that they may hide, but because of how they may get > along with other fish. As has been recommended here a number of times > in the past, don't include fancy Guppies in the same tank as Bettas or > the Guppies may be attacked. Then too, don't include fish like Tiger > Barbs which are notorious for nipping fins, nor even fish such as > Endlers Livebearers which are described as being nippy and more > aggressive. There may be occassional Swordtails which might be nippy > towards a Betta too, but as you can see here, this comes back to the > individual behavior of the fish -- not the Betta's individual behavior > this time, but the different behavior of any one of the fish that are > put with the Betta. More individualistic behavior such as this is most > often seen in fish, such as Livebearers, Killiefish, Anabantids, > Cichlids and others which do their own thing in the aquarium rather > than all of the group behaving similarly as in schooling fish; > schooling fish being Tetras and Barbs, etc. > > As I noted above, care also needs to be considered when intermixing a > Betta with more timid fish, which a Betta may take the advantage of if > his fighting instinct kicks in. This doesn't happen very often, except > when probably encountering fancy Guppies, but may sometimes happen on > other rare occasions when housed with young and unsuspecting fish that > would not be aware of a Betta's possible motives of behavior if his > aggressiveness kicked in. I had one Betta (in a 15 gallon community > tank) that was placed in the tank that contained all peaceful fish, > including about half a dozen young quarter-size Angelfish. This one > Betta would come up along side the unsuspecting Angelfish and suddenly > attack them by biting their eye out. Once I saw this, I of course > promptly removed him, but I can only attribute his > very-different-from-normal behavior as resulting from being > "stir-crazy" from being in confinement in his tiny display jar in the > LFS -- like being in solitary confinement, and being put in "the hole" > (a very small area of imprisonment). > > Aside from these few incidentals, as long as you have a few plants to > add to the tank for a Betta's (or any other fish's) security, I think > it's well worth giving a Betta a try in a community tank. I doubt very > much that it will hide. If you're unsure about how it may interact > with your present fishes, let us know what else you have in your tank > to allow us to consider his or their behavior towards each other, and > get back to you on this. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > wrote: > > > > No, I haven't tried it, I'm asking it to determine if I'd want to > try it. > >  > > People here are consistently saying that if a 10 to 20 gallon tank > is full of water or if there are other fish in the water, you'll never > see that betta, and you'll certainly never see the betta swimming > around doing his betta little thing.  That's the whole point of > having a betta.  Who wants a colorful fish they never see, or never > see move?  Unless they really wanted a tank decoration hiding > behind a rock. > >  > > So, once again. Are you all saying that if I put a betta in a > normal tank I will never see said betta out swimming around? > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53189	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Fish I am Interested In....

Thanks so much, Mike....will definitely come to the meeting in March; thanks also for posting on Facebook - found a source for the multis but the gold ocellatus areproving harder to find.....I have time, though as the tanks are cycling now anyway. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Clare, > > Come join us at the PCCA meeting in March. > Same location that the SVAS meets at and some of us belong to both > clubs. > > I have bought the Multifasciatus at the meetings before as well as > other dwarf cichlids. > > Tell you what, I will post that someone is looking for what you have > listed on our facebook page and maybe a member will bring some next > month. > > Mike G. > > www.Cichlidworld.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cobra427lady <clare@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 6:08 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] New Fish I am Interested In.... > > > > > > Hi to Ray and All! > > Having bred German Blue Rams and long fin albino ancistrus successfully > this past year, I would now like to try my hand at some Africans....my > LFS guy recommended these shell dweller species from Lake Tanganiyka: > > neolaprologus multifaciatus > > and > > lamprologus ocellatus gold > > Can anyone out there share their experiences and recommend a good > source for them? I have been looking around...I am located in the San > Francisco Bay Area. > > Thanks for any info - I totally appreciate this group.... > > Cheers, > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53190	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?

Hi, Wendie...can you share your importers information with us? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > > I've dealt with the same importer for about 5 to 6 years now and have been > very happy with everything I've gotten from him. I'm able to get fish that > are not normally offered in a pet store. > I, myself, have shipped bettas to various stateside locations with no > problems. > Wendie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? > > It is a common practice. They are packed the same as when you bring them > home from the fish store, except within a Styrofoam box to maintain > temperature. If it's cold a heat pack may be used inside. The fish are > healthy and safe. After all they had to get here all the way from Africa > (or wherever yours are from). > > > > I prefer overnight shipping and I arrange to work from home on the day they > arrive so I can get them in the tanks promptly. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? > > > > > > Hi, > > is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how long > does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? > The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be interested in > in the future (if we should get a bigger tank somewhen...). How safe is it > for the fish and how healthy are they usually? > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53191	From: kerrysunuser	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: I have a pond full of healthy fish in Dunstable UK that need rehomin

Due to a house move and the purchasers not wanting a pond I have a large quantity of health fish that need to be rehomed. The largest of these are two grass carp at about 30" and 36" along with a few 12-18" Koi/orfe and then an assortment of large goldfish and rudd. Whoever takes the larger fish will need to show me they know how to move them safely. thanks. Phil - 07974 175222

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53192	From: Martin VanderWal	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G

Great post, Ray! Well explained, easy to understand. I think I will follow this method in starting up my 30 gal. For this size do I need to change the number of ammonia drops I put in? And, as I am planning to have live plants, should I start my DIY CO2 before or after my tank begins cycling? Thanks! Martin Sent from my iPod On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:38 AM, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > in

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53193	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

Yes male betta's with the long fins (not the plakats) will have trouble swimming in strong currents. Even my little hob on my 10 gallon can sometimes give my little betta some trouble now and then, but he handles it okay. He spends his day exploring his 10 gallon, in and out of caves and plants. He's a busy little guy. My male plakat is much less active, which I find ironic, since he doesn't have the fins to weigh him down. Amber On 2/18/2012 5:15 AM, Dora Smith wrote: > > What about a 20 gallon tank with pristella tetras and danios? > > Also, do bettas prefer it calm? I have a couple of filters and an > airstone going. > > Dora > > On 2/18/2012 2:30 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Hi Dora, > > > > By and large (for the most part), most reports of observations of > > Bettas describe them as preferring to swim throughout the environment > > of their aquariums. Those few reports you may have read of these fish > > preferring to hide may be isolated cases, if some do show this > > behavior. Those that may be seen to hide could have various reasons to > > do so, if that's what's occasionally seen, and these reasons could be > > anything from having tankmates that were nipping the Betta's fins to > > the occasionally different personalities of the Bettas themselves > > which may need additional time for them to adjust to a tank (of any > > size) after they've been confined to their small jars for any length > > of time. > > > > Then too, there may be a few Bettas -- which, just as most others, > > have been confined to their jars before being sold -- and which just > > may have lost their ability to know how to coexist with other fishes > > as they've been deprived of any freedom which would allow them the > > experience to intermingle with any other fishes or know what to expect > > from them. Just as we need to be careful of which other fish we > > include in a community tank when maintaining a Betta in the same > > aquarium (because of some other fishes' aggressiveness and/or their > > propensity for fin nipping), so too, to a lesser degree we need to > > take into account both some more than usual timidness of other fish > > and those other fish (such as fancy Guppies) which may look somewhat > > similar to a Betta and provocate a Betta's fighting instinct. > > > > Both of these last two factors are things that need to be considered > > when placing a Betta into an aquarium with other fishes, not because > > of any tendency that they may hide, but because of how they may get > > along with other fish. As has been recommended here a number of times > > in the past, don't include fancy Guppies in the same tank as Bettas or > > the Guppies may be attacked. Then too, don't include fish like Tiger > > Barbs which are notorious for nipping fins, nor even fish such as > > Endlers Livebearers which are described as being nippy and more > > aggressive. There may be occassional Swordtails which might be nippy > > towards a Betta too, but as you can see here, this comes back to the > > individual behavior of the fish -- not the Betta's individual behavior > > this time, but the different behavior of any one of the fish that are > > put with the Betta. More individualistic behavior such as this is most > > often seen in fish, such as Livebearers, Killiefish, Anabantids, > > Cichlids and others which do their own thing in the aquarium rather > > than all of the group behaving similarly as in schooling fish; > > schooling fish being Tetras and Barbs, etc. > > > > As I noted above, care also needs to be considered when intermixing a > > Betta with more timid fish, which a Betta may take the advantage of if > > his fighting instinct kicks in. This doesn't happen very often, except > > when probably encountering fancy Guppies, but may sometimes happen on > > other rare occasions when housed with young and unsuspecting fish that > > would not be aware of a Betta's possible motives of behavior if his > > aggressiveness kicked in. I had one Betta (in a 15 gallon community > > tank) that was placed in the tank that contained all peaceful fish, > > including about half a dozen young quarter-size Angelfish. This one > > Betta would come up along side the unsuspecting Angelfish and suddenly > > attack them by biting their eye out. Once I saw this, I of course > > promptly removed him, but I can only attribute his > > very-different-from-normal behavior as resulting from being > > "stir-crazy" from being in confinement in his tiny display jar in the > > LFS -- like being in solitary confinement, and being put in "the hole" > > (a very small area of imprisonment). > > > > Aside from these few incidentals, as long as you have a few plants to > > add to the tank for a Betta's (or any other fish's) security, I think > > it's well worth giving a Betta a try in a community tank. I doubt very > > much that it will hide. If you're unsure about how it may interact > > with your present fishes, let us know what else you have in your tank > > to allow us to consider his or their behavior towards each other, and > > get back to you on this. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > No, I haven't tried it, I'm asking it to determine if I'd want to > > try it. > > >  > > > People here are consistently saying that if a 10 to 20 gallon tank > > is full of water or if there are other fish in the water, you'll never > > see that betta, and you'll certainly never see the betta swimming > > around doing his betta little thing.  That's the whole point of > > having a betta.  Who wants a colorful fish they never see, or never > > see move?  Unless they really wanted a tank decoration hiding > > behind a rock. > > >  > > > So, once again. Are you all saying that if I put a betta in a > > normal tank I will never see said betta out swimming around? > > >  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53194	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Black Algea - HELP!!!

Hope everyone is having a good weekend. Wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how to get rid of black algea. Everything I have found online and LFS sais to EMPTY aquarium and pretty much start all over. If that is the case. How can I clean rocks, decorations and plants? I was planning to remove gravel little by little, clean (how?) then remove the plants and clean (how again?) Any suggestions are very welcomed. Thanks; Alex Semper Fi PS - Anyone here lives in or around Orlando Fl? 80 us Gl Lots of Fish pH 7.6 0 Ammo 0 Nitri 40 Nitra 5 kH 11gH 75 deg Temp Lots of fish Several plants 2 Pieces of Mopany wood

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53195	From: Wendie	Date: 2/18/2012
Subject: Re: shipping fish?

His name is Mark and he has a group on Yahoo called Anubias design. Join his group and you'll see that he usually puts up a notice weekly of those fish available or those fish he is considering ordering if there is enough interest in that fish. He lives in Pennsylvania and attends fish meets in the area. He will take fish to the meets and if you order from him and live near a meet you can usually pick them up at that time. Monitor the list and you can see just what others are ordering. My orders usually consist of pleco, green neons, kuhli, etc. As I said, I've been on the list and ordering for several years now. The stock list on the group site is old. Stick to whatever he posts on a regular basis. Wendie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cobra427lady Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 11:31 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: shipping fish? Hi, Wendie...can you share your importers information with us? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Wendie <wendieo@...> wrote: > > I've dealt with the same importer for about 5 to 6 years now and have > been very happy with everything I've gotten from him. I'm able to get > fish that are not normally offered in a pet store. > I, myself, have shipped bettas to various stateside locations with no > problems. > Wendie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of Donna Ransome > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:13 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? > > It is a common practice. They are packed the same as when you bring > them home from the fish store, except within a Styrofoam box to > maintain temperature. If it's cold a heat pack may be used inside. > The fish are healthy and safe. After all they had to get here all the > way from Africa (or wherever yours are from). > > > > I prefer overnight shipping and I arrange to work from home on the day > they arrive so I can get them in the tanks promptly. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 9:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] shipping fish? > > > > > > Hi, > > is it common practice to ship fish around? How are they packed and how > long does a trip take? Are the fish usually ok with it? > The pet/fish stores I know of do not have the fish I would be > interested in in the future (if we should get a bigger tank > somewhen...). How safe is it for the fish and how healthy are they usually? > > Thanks, > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT > that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the > original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: > old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53196	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!

Reduce your nutrients and lighting. 40ppm nitrates is too high keep them between 10ppm after water change and 20ppm before water change. Feed less. The algae will die off. If you want to remove the rocks, the algae comes off with warm water and a scrub brush. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Algea - HELP!!! Hope everyone is having a good weekend. Wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how to get rid of black algea. Everything I have found online and LFS sais to EMPTY aquarium and pretty much start all over. If that is the case. How can I clean rocks, decorations and plants? I was planning to remove gravel little by little, clean (how?) then remove the plants and clean (how again?) Any suggestions are very welcomed. Thanks; Alex Semper Fi PS - Anyone here lives in or around Orlando Fl? 80 us Gl Lots of Fish pH 7.6 0 Ammo 0 Nitri 40 Nitra 5 kH 11gH 75 deg Temp Lots of fish Several plants 2 Pieces of Mopany wood [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53197	From: Ray	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: betta with other community fish?

A 20 gallon tank is fine. The Tetras are peaceful, and while Danios can be nippy, it's usually shown towards each other (if they can catch one another -- which they usually can't) if there are enough of them. Besides, Danios prefer to use only the top quarter of the water column. As Amber states, in general Bettas don't like a lot of current or aggitation. Your couple of filters may not offer a calm enough environment for a Betta. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > What about a 20 gallon tank with pristella tetras and danios? > > Also, do bettas prefer it calm? I have a couple of filters and an > airstone going. > > Dora > > On 2/18/2012 2:30 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Hi Dora, > > > > By and large (for the most part), most reports of observations of > > Bettas describe them as preferring to swim throughout the environment > > of their aquariums. Those few reports you may have read of these fish > > preferring to hide may be isolated cases, if some do show this > > behavior. Those that may be seen to hide could have various reasons to > > do so, if that's what's occasionally seen, and these reasons could be > > anything from having tankmates that were nipping the Betta's fins to > > the occasionally different personalities of the Bettas themselves > > which may need additional time for them to adjust to a tank (of any > > size) after they've been confined to their small jars for any length > > of time. > > > > Then too, there may be a few Bettas -- which, just as most others, > > have been confined to their jars before being sold -- and which just > > may have lost their ability to know how to coexist with other fishes > > as they've been deprived of any freedom which would allow them the > > experience to intermingle with any other fishes or know what to expect > > from them. Just as we need to be careful of which other fish we > > include in a community tank when maintaining a Betta in the same > > aquarium (because of some other fishes' aggressiveness and/or their > > propensity for fin nipping), so too, to a lesser degree we need to > > take into account both some more than usual timidness of other fish > > and those other fish (such as fancy Guppies) which may look somewhat > > similar to a Betta and provocate a Betta's fighting instinct. > > > > Both of these last two factors are things that need to be considered > > when placing a Betta into an aquarium with other fishes, not because > > of any tendency that they may hide, but because of how they may get > > along with other fish. As has been recommended here a number of times > > in the past, don't include fancy Guppies in the same tank as Bettas or > > the Guppies may be attacked. Then too, don't include fish like Tiger > > Barbs which are notorious for nipping fins, nor even fish such as > > Endlers Livebearers which are described as being nippy and more > > aggressive. There may be occassional Swordtails which might be nippy > > towards a Betta too, but as you can see here, this comes back to the > > individual behavior of the fish -- not the Betta's individual behavior > > this time, but the different behavior of any one of the fish that are > > put with the Betta. More individualistic behavior such as this is most > > often seen in fish, such as Livebearers, Killiefish, Anabantids, > > Cichlids and others which do their own thing in the aquarium rather > > than all of the group behaving similarly as in schooling fish; > > schooling fish being Tetras and Barbs, etc. > > > > As I noted above, care also needs to be considered when intermixing a > > Betta with more timid fish, which a Betta may take the advantage of if > > his fighting instinct kicks in. This doesn't happen very often, except > > when probably encountering fancy Guppies, but may sometimes happen on > > other rare occasions when housed with young and unsuspecting fish that > > would not be aware of a Betta's possible motives of behavior if his > > aggressiveness kicked in. I had one Betta (in a 15 gallon community > > tank) that was placed in the tank that contained all peaceful fish, > > including about half a dozen young quarter-size Angelfish. This one > > Betta would come up along side the unsuspecting Angelfish and suddenly > > attack them by biting their eye out. Once I saw this, I of course > > promptly removed him, but I can only attribute his > > very-different-from-normal behavior as resulting from being > > "stir-crazy" from being in confinement in his tiny display jar in the > > LFS -- like being in solitary confinement, and being put in "the hole" > > (a very small area of imprisonment). > > > > Aside from these few incidentals, as long as you have a few plants to > > add to the tank for a Betta's (or any other fish's) security, I think > > it's well worth giving a Betta a try in a community tank. I doubt very > > much that it will hide. If you're unsure about how it may interact > > with your present fishes, let us know what else you have in your tank > > to allow us to consider his or their behavior towards each other, and > > get back to you on this. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> > > wrote: > > > > > > No, I haven't tried it, I'm asking it to determine if I'd want to > > try it. > > >  > > > People here are consistently saying that if a 10 to 20 gallon tank > > is full of water or if there are other fish in the water, you'll never > > see that betta, and you'll certainly never see the betta swimming > > around doing his betta little thing.  That's the whole point of > > having a betta.  Who wants a colorful fish they never see, or never > > see move?  Unless they really wanted a tank decoration hiding > > behind a rock. > > >  > > > So, once again. Are you all saying that if I put a betta in a > > normal tank I will never see said betta out swimming around? > > >  > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53198	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP

Hello, I'm new here and hope someone will be able to help me with an unusual problem: the Whisper floss bags I have been using for years, now seem to start dissolving into mush after 2-3 weeks. I normally use a bag for 3-6 months before it starts wearing out. I have the bag filled with a Chemipure pouch. About my tank: Oceanic 40L with 48" fluorescent bulb, set up since 1989,UG filter with powerhead, bubble wand, 2 Whisper power filters (40 and 60) with Chemipure in one, Ceramic media and sponges in the other (along with craft store polyfill on top in all 3 chambers. I do 25-30% partial water changes weekly (via gravel cleaner). Water tests No ammonia, nitrate or nitrite, alkalinity idea at 120, pH between 7.2 and 7.8, hardness is soft at 75. I use Aqueon water conditioner (used to use Amquel/Nov-Aqua until the rotton egg stink from the Amquel drove me crazy and started killing some of my fish - looked like they had been scalded. No more problems since switching to the Aqueon). I have recently been dealing with brown algae - not sure where this came from, but it started about the time I began giving my fish zuchini slices (??) - I tend to underfeed rather than overfeed, having reduced feeding to once a day to try and get the algae under control. My tank is overstocked (thus the diligent weekly care)and houses 1 black ghost, 4 clown loaches, 3 yo-yo loaches, 4 gourami, 1 angel - all average about 2.5" (except black ghost is 7" head to tail). I've always had the tank overstocked, but the fish all do well(prior black ghost and a kuhlii loach lived 13 years in this tank). I recently added 4 juvenile blood red parrot cichlids (yeah, I am aware of the controversy, but they are fun) and 1 juvenile jack dempsey - all about 2.5" at this point. And, yes, I am planning to get a larger tank in the near future - would love some feedback on where to find a good one similar to Oceanic (not Petsmart), types of filters, etc. Thank you for any feedback (good and bad and constructive) that you can offer!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53199	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: inverts, fish, and buckets.

Hi folks. silly question?...maybe not... I'm wanting to pick up some shrimp for my nocturnal tank beside the bed... ghosts in all likelihood.... but maybe a type better seen under blue light. Do they need to be quarantined if bought out of a tank with just shrimp in it? Or is there little chance of a disease that affects both inverts and fish? If so, how long do I need to find a bucket for them? Thanks all.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53200	From: Ray	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: cycling with fish, without fish, betta in 10G

Martin, Doesn't matter what size the tank is -- you still use the same number of drops per gallon. As not all eye droppers give the same size drops, as I mentioned, the number of drops can vary between 3 and 5 drops per gallon. You'd have to add 3 drops per gallon first (90 drops if the tank were filled right to the top andf you had no gravel). As I can assume you have gravel since you're going to have plants, add only 80 drops to start. After it's well mixed, test your ammonia level as you may need to add more to get it to 4 -- 5 ppm. Test your water for ammonia each day, and add only enough more to bring it back up to 4 -- 5 ppm ammonia. In the very beginning, as there won't be but a very little ammount of nitrifying bacteria, you wouldn't need to add very much more at all the next day, or the next few following days. The idea is to keep the ammonia level at 4 to 5 ppm each day until the test results the following day indicate that you have a large population of bacteria, which would tell you by it consuming all of the ammonia -- your reading the followeing day at this time would be zero after adding ammonia the prevuious day. Likewise for the nitrite. As nitrifying bacteria thrive best in well oxygenated water, I would tend to think that adding CO2 in the beginning may slow the process down. I might not add CO2 until after the cycle is complete -- to ensure the fastest cycle time that you can, but perhaps as long as the bacteria receive their needed O2, the CO2 level may be immaterial. That being said, you could probably begin the CO2 at any time -- before or after the cycle is started -- just so that the bacteria get a good flow of oxygenated water past them. In other words, if there is any interruption of the oxygenated water to the bacteria, stop the CO2 immediately as it would only serve to suffocate them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Martin VanderWal <mrtnvwal@...> wrote: > > Great post, Ray! Well explained, easy to understand. > > I think I will follow this method in starting up my 30 gal. For this size do I need to change the number of ammonia drops I put in? And, as I am planning to have live plants, should I start my DIY CO2 before or after my tank begins cycling? > > Thanks! > > Martin > > Sent from my iPod > > On Feb 16, 2012, at 8:38 AM, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > in >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53201	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: inverts, fish, and buckets.

Hi Al, To be on the safe side I would quarantine anything before adding it despite what the store would tell you or how well the animals have been looked after previously there is always the chance that they carry something that they are immune to but could be deadly to your established system. John*<o)))<* On 19 February 2012 17:27, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi folks. > silly question?...maybe not... > I'm wanting to pick up some shrimp for my nocturnal tank beside the bed... > ghosts in all likelihood.... but maybe a type better seen under blue light. > Do they need to be quarantined if bought out of a tank > with just shrimp in it? Or is there little chance of a disease > that affects both inverts and fish? > If so, how long do I need to find a bucket for them? > Thanks all. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53202	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP

Hi, Did this problem with the floss bags start when you began feeding the zucchini & the brown algae appeared? If not the did you do anything different, add or remove anything [fish/decor etc] or change your feeding or water change regime when this began to happen? Did it start when you added the new fish? I know my white polyester foam will start to disintegrate after a few weeks when it gets really dirty so I'm wondering if additional bio load is making this happen? John*<o)))< * On 19 February 2012 16:53, <LJFUQUA@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, I'm new here and hope someone will be able to help me with an > unusual problem: the Whisper floss bags I have been using for years, now > seem to start dissolving into mush after 2-3 weeks. I normally use a bag > for 3-6 months before it starts wearing out. I have the bag filled with a > Chemipure pouch. About my tank: Oceanic 40L with 48" fluorescent bulb, set > up since 1989,UG filter with powerhead, bubble wand, 2 Whisper power > filters (40 and 60) with Chemipure in one, Ceramic media and sponges in the > other (along with craft store polyfill on top in all 3 chambers. I do > 25-30% partial water changes weekly (via gravel cleaner). Water tests No > ammonia, nitrate or nitrite, alkalinity idea at 120, pH between 7.2 and > 7.8, hardness is soft at 75. I use Aqueon water conditioner (used to use > Amquel/Nov-Aqua until the rotton egg stink from the Amquel drove me crazy > and started killing some of my fish - looked like they had been scalded. No > more problems since switching to the Aqueon). I have recently been dealing > with brown algae - not sure where this came from, but it started about the > time I began giving my fish zuchini slices (??) - I tend to underfeed > rather than overfeed, having reduced feeding to once a day to try and get > the algae under control. My tank is overstocked (thus the diligent weekly > care)and houses 1 black ghost, 4 clown loaches, 3 yo-yo loaches, 4 gourami, > 1 angel - all average about 2.5" (except black ghost is 7" head to tail). > I've always had the tank overstocked, but the fish all do well(prior black > ghost and a kuhlii loach lived 13 years in this tank). I recently added 4 > juvenile blood red parrot cichlids (yeah, I am aware of the controversy, > but they are fun) and 1 juvenile jack dempsey - all about 2.5" at this > point. And, yes, I am planning to get a larger tank in the near future - > would love some feedback on where to find a good one similar to Oceanic > (not Petsmart), types of filters, etc. Thank you for any feedback (good and > bad and constructive) that you can offer! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53203	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Mesh Pots

As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not getting pulled out by the fish. On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that sells something that might work. This is the vendor: http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? Alex Semper Fi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53204	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/19/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!

OK. I have reduced light to 5 hrs per day from 1. Feeding to 1 from 2 per day. Water change I will do tomorrow. What about the algea on the plants? Would a vinegar/water solution work? Say 1 part vinegar/10part water? Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Reduce your nutrients and lighting. > > > > 40ppm nitrates is too high keep them between 10ppm after water change and > 20ppm before water change. > > > > Feed less. > > > > The algae will die off. > > > > If you want to remove the rocks, the algae comes off with warm water and a > scrub brush.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53205	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

I do use these, but along with two other items. First there is a terra cotta pot that fits this exactly. That is submerged in the substrate and stays there permanently. Inside of the plastic pot in your link is a coco liner that also fits exactly. I fill it with plant substrate why top it with regular? Oh note from experience. The fish will take the plant substrate from the pots and spit it all over the tank, so hope you don’t mind a mix, LOL. After this happened and orange fluorite got mixed with my beige pool filter sand I switched to matching substrates. Now both are black (black fluorite and black fluorite sand). This way I can switch the plants out when the fish eat them, and slip in a freshly potted plant into the waiting terra cotta pot. You can get the coco liner from the same hydroponics vendors. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mesh Pots As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not getting pulled out by the fish. On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that sells something that might work. This is the vendor: http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? Alex Semper Fi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53206	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!

Rub it off with your fingers. Anything left will melt away naturally once you remove the nutrients. I tried a solution to remove algae from plants once, and it seemed to have taken a layer of cells off the plant. It was paler and more transparent after the treatment. I’d use that as a last resort. Or even replace the plants before doing that. Go to 1 feeding per day max unless you have fry. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amejia1976 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Algea - HELP!!! OK. I have reduced light to 5 hrs per day from 1. Feeding to 1 from 2 per day. Water change I will do tomorrow. What about the algea on the plants? Would a vinegar/water solution work? Say 1 part vinegar/10part water? Alex Semper Fi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Reduce your nutrients and lighting. > > > > 40ppm nitrates is too high keep them between 10ppm after water change and > 20ppm before water change. > > > > Feed less. > > > > The algae will die off. > > > > If you want to remove the rocks, the algae comes off with warm water and a > scrub brush. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53207	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Black Algea - HELP!!!

Hi Alex, I don't think a vinegar solution would be any use-it works for removing any unwanted hitch-hikers on new plants but it probably would not have any effect on the algae-at least not as a dip. Go with Donna's suggestion of gently rubbing with your fingers or perhaps using a cotton bud very carefully. John*<o)))<* On 20 February 2012 03:41, amejia1976 <amejia1976@...> wrote: > ** > > > OK. I have reduced light to 5 hrs per day from 1. Feeding to 1 from 2 per > day. > > Water change I will do tomorrow. > > What about the algea on the plants? Would a vinegar/water solution work? > Say 1 part vinegar/10part water? > > Alex > Semper Fi > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Reduce your nutrients and lighting. > > > > > > > > 40ppm nitrates is too high�keep them between 10ppm after water change and > > 20ppm before water change. > > > > > > > > Feed less. > > > > > > > > The algae will die off. > > > > > > > > If you want to remove the rocks, the algae comes off with warm water and > a > > scrub brush. > > > Reply to sender<amejia1976@...?subject=Re%3A%20Black%20Algea%20-%20HELP%21%21%21>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Black%20Algea%20-%20HELP%21%21%21>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMjhzOGF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTcwOTg4Mg--?act=reply&messageNum=53204>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlamQ0YzhhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTcwOTg4Mg--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53194;_ylc=X3oDMTM2b25zZ2hsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTcwOTg4MgR0cGNJZAM1MzE5NA-->( > 3) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZjA0Zzd2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3MDk4ODI-?o=6> > 2 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNG4xYXB2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTcwOTg4Mg--> > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53208	From: Ray	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

There are extremely small mesh pots that plants sometimes are sold with -- probably unlike those which Donna uses. They're used to allow the plants to get a good start before they're bought, then they need to be cut off off the plant before putting the plant into the substrate. These are really too small to keep on the plants' roots, if this is what you have in mind, as they restrict the plants' root growth. The small terra cotta pots she describes would be better, provided again that they're not too small. They can be put down partially into the gravel to make them less conspicuous. The larger mesh pots that are shown via your link are primarily designed for pond bog plants, but there's probably no reason why you couldn't use them in the aquarium although I don't understand yourpurpose for wanting to. Eventually, some of the roots will be seen to grow out through the mesh and defeat the purpose of containing them. One good suubstrate you could use for growing plants -- among others -- is Eco-Complete by CaribSea. Another one is SeaChem's Flourite. You may want to talk them over with you LFS owner to see which fits your needs best. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not getting pulled out by the fish. > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that sells something that might work. > > This is the vendor: > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > Alex > Semper Fi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53209	From: Paul	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Anyone try the new Repashy fish foods?

Anyone try the new Repashy fish foods? Paul

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53211	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

You are right Ray I use the 3” pots. Three inches across and three inches high. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:46 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mesh Pots There are extremely small mesh pots that plants sometimes are sold with -- probably unlike those which Donna uses. They're used to allow the plants to get a good start before they're bought, then they need to be cut off off the plant before putting the plant into the substrate. These are really too small to keep on the plants' roots, if this is what you have in mind, as they restrict the plants' root growth. The small terra cotta pots she describes would be better, provided again that they're not too small. They can be put down partially into the gravel to make them less conspicuous. The larger mesh pots that are shown via your link are primarily designed for pond bog plants, but there's probably no reason why you couldn't use them in the aquarium although I don't understand yourpurpose for wanting to. Eventually, some of the roots will be seen to grow out through the mesh and defeat the purpose of containing them. One good suubstrate you could use for growing plants -- among others -- is Eco-Complete by CaribSea. Another one is SeaChem's Flourite. You may want to talk them over with you LFS owner to see which fits your needs best. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not getting pulled out by the fish. > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that sells something that might work. > > This is the vendor: > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > Alex > Semper Fi > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53212	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: I'M NEW HERE AND HAVE QUESTIONS/HELP

I would guess from what you say that the 'new, improved' versions are neither! I have seen this type of thing happen with many products fish & non-fish related.Unless you can get hold of any more old stock or find an alternative you are probably going to have to get used to using an inferior product unfortunately. John*<o)))< * On 20 February 2012 22:43, <LJFUQUA@...> wrote: > ** > > > THE PROBLEMS WITH THE FLOSS BAGS BEGAN LAST YEAR WHEN I ORDERED A NEW > SHIPMENT (I HAD AN OLD BOX OF THEM ON HAND THAT TOOK FOREVER TO USE UP - I > ORDERED THOSE BACK BEFORE THEY "DISAPPEARED" FOR AWHILE.) THERE IS > SOMETHING AMISS WITH THE NEW BAGS, WHICH I ORDERED FROM EITHER > DRSFOSTERANDSMITH OR THATFISHPLACE - THEY WERE MARKED IN THE CATALOG "BACK > BY POPULAR DEMAND" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Did this problem with the floss bags start when you began feeding the > > zucchini & the brown algae appeared? If not the did you do anything > > different, add or remove anything [fish/decor etc] or change your feeding > > or water change regime when this began to happen? Did it start when you > > added the new fish? > > > > I know my white polyester foam will start to disintegrate after a few > weeks > > when it gets really dirty so I'm wondering if additional bio load is > making > > this happen? > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 19 February 2012 16:53, <LJFUQUA@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hello, I'm new here and hope someone will be able to help me with an > > > unusual problem: the Whisper floss bags I have been using for years, > now > > > seem to start dissolving into mush after 2-3 weeks. I normally use a > bag > > > for 3-6 months before it starts wearing out. I have the bag filled > with a > > > Chemipure pouch. About my tank: Oceanic 40L with 48" fluorescent bulb, > set > > > up since 1989,UG filter with powerhead, bubble wand, 2 Whisper power > > > filters (40 and 60) with Chemipure in one, Ceramic media and sponges > in the > > > other (along with craft store polyfill on top in all 3 chambers. I do > > > 25-30% partial water changes weekly (via gravel cleaner). Water tests > No > > > ammonia, nitrate or nitrite, alkalinity idea at 120, pH between 7.2 and > > > 7.8, hardness is soft at 75. I use Aqueon water conditioner (used to > use > > > Amquel/Nov-Aqua until the rotton egg stink from the Amquel drove me > crazy > > > and started killing some of my fish - looked like they had been > scalded. No > > > more problems since switching to the Aqueon). I have recently been > dealing > > > with brown algae - not sure where this came from, but it started about > the > > > time I began giving my fish zuchini slices (??) - I tend to underfeed > > > rather than overfeed, having reduced feeding to once a day to try and > get > > > the algae under control. My tank is overstocked (thus the diligent > weekly > > > care)and houses 1 black ghost, 4 clown loaches, 3 yo-yo loaches, 4 > gourami, > > > 1 angel - all average about 2.5" (except black ghost is 7" head to > tail). > > > I've always had the tank overstocked, but the fish all do well(prior > black > > > ghost and a kuhlii loach lived 13 years in this tank). I recently > added 4 > > > juvenile blood red parrot cichlids (yeah, I am aware of the > controversy, > > > but they are fun) and 1 juvenile jack dempsey - all about 2.5" at this > > > point. And, yes, I am planning to get a larger tank in the near future > - > > > would love some feedback on where to find a good one similar to Oceanic > > > (not Petsmart), types of filters, etc. Thank you for any feedback > (good and > > > bad and constructive) that you can offer! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Reply to sender<LJFUQUA@...?subject=Re%3A%20I%27M%20NEW%20HERE%20AND%20HAVE%20QUESTIONS%2FHELP>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20I%27M%20NEW%20HERE%20AND%20HAVE%20QUESTIONS%2FHELP>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbm9ocWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjEwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc3ODUyMg--?act=reply&messageNum=53210>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMjUyMHRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc3ODUyMg--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53198;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MjU5OHZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjEwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc3ODUyMgR0cGNJZAM1MzE5OA-->( > 3) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZWdncXE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3Nzg1MjI-?o=6> > 2 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2I0Y2RkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc3ODUyMg--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53213	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Hi Alex, I also use regular clay pots & like Donna have found that the fish will try every trick in the book to uproot them & make a mess! What I do is to use a planting substrate such as TetraPlant & on top of this a good layer of aquarium gravel & just to be on the safe side I cover this with pebbles or marbles. This is because my fish are big streamlined Goldfish so they are good diggers & even make light work of the pebbles sometimes. My latest pot is a 14" rectangular planter that I have put my Vallis in & it is doing great. John*<o)))< * On 20 February 2012 23:48, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > You are right Ray�I use the 3� pots. Three inches across and three inches > high. > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mesh Pots > > > There are extremely small mesh pots that plants sometimes are sold with -- > probably unlike those which Donna uses. They're used to allow the plants to > get a good start before they're bought, then they need to be cut off off > the > plant before putting the plant into the substrate. These are really too > small to keep on the plants' roots, if this is what you have in mind, as > they restrict the plants' root growth. The small terra cotta pots she > describes would be better, provided again that they're not too small. They > can be put down partially into the gravel to make them less conspicuous. > The > larger mesh pots that are shown via your link are primarily designed for > pond bog plants, but there's probably no reason why you couldn't use them > in > the aquarium although I don't understand yourpurpose for wanting to. > Eventually, some of the roots will be seen to grow out through the mesh and > defeat the purpose of containing them. > > One good suubstrate you could use for growing plants -- among others -- is > Eco-Complete by CaribSea. Another one is SeaChem's Flourite. You may want > to > talk them over with you LFS owner to see which fits your needs best. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > > "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > getting > pulled out by the fish. > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > tiny > mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that > sells something that might work. > > > > This is the vendor: > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<djransome@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A%20Mesh%20Pots>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A%20Mesh%20Pots>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNzRjMm10BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--?act=reply&messageNum=53211>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTIyNDQ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53203;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bTNtODMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOAR0cGNJZAM1MzIwMw-->( > 4) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZzMxZm5nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3ODE3MTg-?o=6> > 2 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHIyb3M3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--> > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53214	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/20/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

The plant roots grow through the coco liner and cling, even if all the substrate gets rooted out. I just refill weekly during partial water changes, LOL. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Mesh Pots Hi Alex, I also use regular clay pots & like Donna have found that the fish will try every trick in the book to uproot them & make a mess! What I do is to use a planting substrate such as TetraPlant & on top of this a good layer of aquarium gravel & just to be on the safe side I cover this with pebbles or marbles. This is because my fish are big streamlined Goldfish so they are good diggers & even make light work of the pebbles sometimes. My latest pot is a 14" rectangular planter that I have put my Vallis in & it is doing great. John*<o)))< * On 20 February 2012 23:48, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > You are right Ray I use the 3” pots. Three inches across and three inches > high. > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:46 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Mesh Pots > > > There are extremely small mesh pots that plants sometimes are sold with -- > probably unlike those which Donna uses. They're used to allow the plants to > get a good start before they're bought, then they need to be cut off off > the > plant before putting the plant into the substrate. These are really too > small to keep on the plants' roots, if this is what you have in mind, as > they restrict the plants' root growth. The small terra cotta pots she > describes would be better, provided again that they're not too small. They > can be put down partially into the gravel to make them less conspicuous. > The > larger mesh pots that are shown via your link are primarily designed for > pond bog plants, but there's probably no reason why you couldn't use them > in > the aquarium although I don't understand yourpurpose for wanting to. > Eventually, some of the roots will be seen to grow out through the mesh and > defeat the purpose of containing them. > > One good suubstrate you could use for growing plants -- among others -- is > Eco-Complete by CaribSea. Another one is SeaChem's Flourite. You may want > to > talk them over with you LFS owner to see which fits your needs best. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > > "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > getting > pulled out by the fish. > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > tiny > mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that > sells something that might work. > > > > This is the vendor: > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<djransome@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A%20M esh%20Pots>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A% 20Mesh%20Pots>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNzRjMm10BF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMjExBHN lYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--?act=reply&messageNum=53211>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTIyNDQ2BF 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2 50cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53203;_ylc=X3oDMTM2b TNtODMwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkA zUzMjExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOAR0cGNJZAM1MzIwMw-->( > 4) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZzMxZ m5nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc 2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3ODE3MTg-?o=6> > 2 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHIyb3M3BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHA Ec3RpbWUDMTMyOTc4MTcxOA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53215	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn!/Trimming Plant Roots

As we are talking of plants that reminded me-a couple of months ago I posted some pictures to the 'John's Plants' photo album showing my Vallis which had then just started to pick up after a couple of years of dormancy when it seemed to be hanging on & not growing like it used to. Dawn suggested that I try trimming the roots a little when I re-potted it & so having nothing to loose I tried it & they started to show signs of growth. I only cut about a quarter of the length of the root off but now 2 months down the line the Vallis had really started to take off to such an extent that I recently have had to re-pot it again, this time what was in 3 small pots has ended up into one large 6" diameter pot & a 14" rectangular planter-it has grown in length to almost 2 feet & is now trailing along the surface like it used to do. I am so pleased with this & my fish are too as it gives them plenty of cover & interesting places to explore but also gives some structure at all levels of the tank which looks nice. The Vallis has also started to throw out runners & the baby plants are thriving. I also took the opportunity to get some Anacharis & this has also really done well doubling in length from about 8" before Christmas to 16"+ &is also starting to give out side shoots & long roots. The other plant in view [when the pictures get approved] is Hornwort & while this doesn't really need to be rooted it looks good in bunches so I just gather several strands together & hold them down with large pebbles. I have another 14" planter which I may re-pot some of the Anacharis into. John*<o)))< * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53216	From: amejia1976	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Is it better to use plain terra cotta or can the ones that have designs on them ok? such as http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202892262/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=terra cotta pots&storeId=10051 Alex SemperFi --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not getting pulled out by the fish. > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company that sells something that might work. > > This is the vendor: > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > Alex > Semper Fi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53217	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/21/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Hi Alex, This looks to be fired glazing & if so then it is probably inert & therefore safe just like regular glass-it certainly looks very nice & I can't see any reason not to use it. What I would say is make sure that the glazing is unchipped with no cracks & that it is absolutely smooth. Also check the line between the colour & the terra-cotta is not raised so there is nothing for the fish to injure themselves on. John*<o)))< * On 21 February 2012 23:59, amejia1976 <amejia1976@...> wrote: > ** > > > Is it better to use plain terra cotta or can the ones that have designs on > them ok? > > such as > > > http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202892262/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=terracotta pots&storeId=10051 > > Alex > SemperFi > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > getting pulled out by the fish. > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company > that sells something that might work. > > > > This is the vendor: > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > Alex > > Semper Fi > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53218	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Another option: I use clear plastic "on the rocks" party glasses for my potted plants. I suppose you could drill holes on the bottom like flower pots have -- but I never did. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53219	From: Ray	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Hi John, Alex, Just because a pot is fire glazed does not necessarily mean that it's inert or that it may not be toxic to fish. To the contrary, depending on the method used it may be extremely toxic to fish -- or even to humans if used improperly. Even going back many decades, glazed pottery has always been notoriously dangerous to put in the hands of small children who may use it as a container for food -- such as ice cream, in a glazed decorative plate -- or who just may happen to lick the pottery, as kids may sometimes do. The degree of safeness of glazing all depends on how it was fired, and what the glazing is made of. There are different methods used in glazing -- some much safer than others -- and if one doesn't know how a piece of pottery was glazed, it's best not to have it in the hands of children, just as it's best not to use it for the aquarium. Any such glazed pottery manufactured in China is especially suspect of being dangerous in how it was made, and we all know of the many dangerous products sold here over the years which were produced in China, which had to be recalled as they were dangerous to infants, as they had been made under lax controls which would have normally been in effect had they been made in this country. There are five "Cones" of temperature zones that glazing is produced by. Low-fired glazing -- done at temperatures between about 1600 o F and about 2000 o F -- may often use toxic (and/or non-toxic) heavy metals in the process as a flux to enable the glass to melt at lower temperatures. These toxic metals may lead, copper or even arsenic -- none of which should be in the hands of infants, nor used in the aquarium, for obvious reasons. Additionally, arsenic is often used to create the color green in low-fired glazing, so this color pottery should especially be avoided if one doesn't know the method used to produce the piece. While heavy metals may not necessarily have been used in the glazing, China's lack of standards -- which would normally be used in this country -- may be something to avoid if it's determined that's where the pottery has been made. High-fired pottery, on the other hand, requires temperatures of from about 2300 o F to 2500 o F, and doesn't need heavy metals to act as a flux since the temperatures by themselves are high enough to enable glazing without further additives. The highest firing methods produced porcelain, but as long as the glazing is high-fired (there are three other firing temperature ranges bettween the two mentioned) it should be safe. You're best going with pottery made as Food-Grade if you want to use it for the aquarium. Generally, low-fired glazing produces the brightest coloring, whereas high-fired glazing generally produces more subdued coloring. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > This looks to be fired glazing & if so then it is probably inert & > therefore safe just like regular glass-it certainly looks very nice & I > can't see any reason not to use it. What I would say is make sure that the > glazing is unchipped with no cracks & that it is absolutely smooth. Also > check the line between the colour & the terra-cotta is not raised so there > is nothing for the fish to injure themselves on. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 21 February 2012 23:59, amejia1976 <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Is it better to use plain terra cotta or can the ones that have designs on > > them ok? > > > > such as > > > > > > http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202892262/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=terracotta pots&storeId=10051 > > > > Alex > > SemperFi > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@> wrote: > > > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the > > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > > getting pulled out by the fish. > > > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > > tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company > > that sells something that might work. > > > > > > This is the vendor: > > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 > > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another > > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > > > Alex > > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53220	From: nancylowes@att.net	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: give away

10 gal tank with 4 fish. The tank is a few years old, but the heater and the filter system will need to be replaced soon, they both are working. These are fresh water fish. I live in Sault Ste. Marie, MI

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53221	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/22/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Hi Ray, You are absolutely right & my first thoughts when I read Alex's initial post *was* to advise Alex against putting anything in an aquarium that is not simple, tested & safe but I have to admit I was attracted by the bright colour of the glazed pot & this swayed my belief that it would be safe because it is fired. I was completely unaware of all the discrepancies in that process so this is an excellent example of how we can, in all innocence, harm our fish doing what we erroneously believe to be perfectly safe or being dazzled by pretty colours [most 'novelty' tank decorations are at best suspect too] so a good call all round & hopefully a lesson learned: "if in doubt-leave it out". I am very careful with plastic containers that I use but that is only because I already knew to use food grade products. John*<o)))< * On 22 February 2012 16:44, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, Alex, > > Just because a pot is fire glazed does not necessarily mean that it's > inert or that it may not be toxic to fish. To the contrary, depending on > the method used it may be extremely toxic to fish -- or even to humans if > used improperly. Even going back many decades, glazed pottery has always > been notoriously dangerous to put in the hands of small children who may > use it as a container for food -- such as ice cream, in a glazed decorative > plate -- or who just may happen to lick the pottery, as kids may sometimes > do. > > The degree of safeness of glazing all depends on how it was fired, and > what the glazing is made of. There are different methods used in glazing -- > some much safer than others -- and if one doesn't know how a piece of > pottery was glazed, it's best not to have it in the hands of children, just > as it's best not to use it for the aquarium. Any such glazed pottery > manufactured in China is especially suspect of being dangerous in how it > was made, and we all know of the many dangerous products sold here over the > years which were produced in China, which had to be recalled as they were > dangerous to infants, as they had been made under lax controls which would > have normally been in effect had they been made in this country. > > There are five "Cones" of temperature zones that glazing is produced by. > Low-fired glazing -- done at temperatures between about 1600 o F and about > 2000 o F -- may often use toxic (and/or non-toxic) heavy metals in the > process as a flux to enable the glass to melt at lower temperatures. These > toxic metals may lead, copper or even arsenic -- none of which should be in > the hands of infants, nor used in the aquarium, for obvious reasons. > Additionally, arsenic is often used to create the color green in low-fired > glazing, so this color pottery should especially be avoided if one doesn't > know the method used to produce the piece. While heavy metals may not > necessarily have been used in the glazing, China's lack of standards -- > which would normally be used in this country -- may be something to avoid > if it's determined that's where the pottery has been made. > > High-fired pottery, on the other hand, requires temperatures of from about > 2300 o F to 2500 o F, and doesn't need heavy metals to act as a flux since > the temperatures by themselves are high enough to enable glazing without > further additives. The highest firing methods produced porcelain, but as > long as the glazing is high-fired (there are three other firing temperature > ranges bettween the two mentioned) it should be safe. You're best going > with pottery made as Food-Grade if you want to use it for the aquarium. > Generally, low-fired glazing produces the brightest coloring, whereas > high-fired glazing generally produces more subdued coloring. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > This looks to be fired glazing & if so then it is probably inert & > > therefore safe just like regular glass-it certainly looks very nice & I > > can't see any reason not to use it. What I would say is make sure that > the > > glazing is unchipped with no cracks & that it is absolutely smooth. Also > > check the line between the colour & the terra-cotta is not raised so > there > > is nothing for the fish to injure themselves on. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 21 February 2012 23:59, amejia1976 <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Is it better to use plain terra cotta or can the ones that have > designs on > > > them ok? > > > > > > such as > > > > > > > > > > http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202892262/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=terracottapots&storeId=10051 > > > > > > Alex > > > SemperFi > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop > the > > > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > > > getting pulled out by the fish. > > > > > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > > > tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one > company > > > that sells something that might work. > > > > > > > > This is the vendor: > > > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use > 2 > > > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then > another > > > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > > > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53222	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: spots of green algae

I have a 3 gallon acrylic round little tank with an undergravel filter, lots of live plants, a couple mystery snails and 2 zebra danios. I change half the water weekly and feed lightly. I don't know the parameters but all have been healthy and happy for 2 years. There are consistent small spots of green algae on the walls. I tried an algaecide once but it stressed the fish too much. Is it true that I can completely cover the tank leaving it dark for 3 days and the algae will die? Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53223	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/23/2012
Subject: Re: spots of green algae

Hi Rose, I get those too-occupational hazard of fishkeeping really although more likely to happen in a warm, well lit tank. Just scrape them off with your finger nail when you next do a water change. It will stress the fish less than using any chemicals & they will do your system no good either. Also scraping it off won't cost you a penny! Have you changed anything since the algae dots appeared-more light perhaps or moved your tank near to a radiator or sunlit window? I don't know if covering the tank for any length of time would work although I suspect it would as the algae would be starved of light but I would not recommend doing that because you will be stressing your animals by altering their routine. John*<o)))< * On 23 February 2012 14:06, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...>wrote: > ** > > > I have a 3 gallon acrylic round little tank with an undergravel filter, > lots of live plants, a couple mystery snails and 2 zebra danios. I change > half the water weekly and feed lightly. I don't know the parameters but all > have been healthy and happy for 2 years. There are consistent small spots > of green algae on the walls. I tried an algaecide once but it stressed the > fish too much. Is it true that I can completely cover the tank leaving it > dark for 3 days and the algae will die? Thanks, Rose > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53224	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: social behavior of fish

Hi, in our 10 G tank I noticed that our two guppies constantly mingle with each other, our little platy is the shadow of the bigger one, the tetras school with each other and the white clouds mostly swim together. Only our white molly is swimming "alone" (but was always accompanied by the orange molly when we still had it). I am not surprised the schooling fish stick together but I had not expected that the livebearer (all males in our tank) have such a strong preference with their own species. They all mingle also with the others but after a short while they always find their "buddies" again. Did you notice the same (that they mostly stick to their own kind) or did you also see strong "friendships" between different species, even if a fish from the same species would be available? Just being curious.... Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53225	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Mesh Pots

Hi Ray, thanks for that info! I might have to go through our kitchen cabinet now... Would you know by any chance how likely it can been that the "wrong" firing type might end up as a decorative plate from china in the dishes department? Sorry that this is off topic concerning aquariums...but it just came into my mind... Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi John, Alex, > > Just because a pot is fire glazed does not necessarily mean that it's inert or that it may not be toxic to fish. To the contrary, depending on the method used it may be extremely toxic to fish -- or even to humans if used improperly. Even going back many decades, glazed pottery has always been notoriously dangerous to put in the hands of small children who may use it as a container for food -- such as ice cream, in a glazed decorative plate -- or who just may happen to lick the pottery, as kids may sometimes do. > > The degree of safeness of glazing all depends on how it was fired, and what the glazing is made of. There are different methods used in glazing -- some much safer than others -- and if one doesn't know how a piece of pottery was glazed, it's best not to have it in the hands of children, just as it's best not to use it for the aquarium. Any such glazed pottery manufactured in China is especially suspect of being dangerous in how it was made, and we all know of the many dangerous products sold here over the years which were produced in China, which had to be recalled as they were dangerous to infants, as they had been made under lax controls which would have normally been in effect had they been made in this country. > > There are five "Cones" of temperature zones that glazing is produced by. Low-fired glazing -- done at temperatures between about 1600 o F and about 2000 o F -- may often use toxic (and/or non-toxic) heavy metals in the process as a flux to enable the glass to melt at lower temperatures. These toxic metals may lead, copper or even arsenic -- none of which should be in the hands of infants, nor used in the aquarium, for obvious reasons. Additionally, arsenic is often used to create the color green in low-fired glazing, so this color pottery should especially be avoided if one doesn't know the method used to produce the piece. While heavy metals may not necessarily have been used in the glazing, China's lack of standards -- which would normally be used in this country -- may be something to avoid if it's determined that's where the pottery has been made. > > High-fired pottery, on the other hand, requires temperatures of from about 2300 o F to 2500 o F, and doesn't need heavy metals to act as a flux since the temperatures by themselves are high enough to enable glazing without further additives. The highest firing methods produced porcelain, but as long as the glazing is high-fired (there are three other firing temperature ranges bettween the two mentioned) it should be safe. You're best going with pottery made as Food-Grade if you want to use it for the aquarium. Generally, low-fired glazing produces the brightest coloring, whereas high-fired glazing generally produces more subdued coloring. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > This looks to be fired glazing & if so then it is probably inert & > > therefore safe just like regular glass-it certainly looks very nice & I > > can't see any reason not to use it. What I would say is make sure that the > > glazing is unchipped with no cracks & that it is absolutely smooth. Also > > check the line between the colour & the terra-cotta is not raised so there > > is nothing for the fish to injure themselves on. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 21 February 2012 23:59, amejia1976 <amejia1976@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Is it better to use plain terra cotta or can the ones that have designs on > > > them ok? > > > > > > such as > > > > > > > > > http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202892262/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=terracotta pots&storeId=10051 > > > > > > Alex > > > SemperFi > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amejia1976" <amejia1976@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As I dabble a bit more into plants I am finding it difficult to drop the > > > plants or bulbs I buy into the gravel and having them stay in or not > > > getting pulled out by the fish. > > > > > > > > On a recent trip to PetSupermarket I notice they have their plants in > > > tiny mesh pots. I was not able very lucky online. Only found one company > > > that sells something that might work. > > > > > > > > This is the vendor: > > > > http://florahydroponics.com/product.aspx?id=1829 > > > > > > > > Has anyone tried something similar? I figured I can get some and use 2 > > > layers of substrate. One that would help with plant growth and then another > > > layer of regular substrate. One other benefit of the pots might be that > > > roots will hopefully grown in the mesh and not under the gravel. > > > > > > > > Any recommendation as substrate that would enhance plant growth? > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > Semper Fi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53226	From: D and g	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: hi i have some rosy reds

i have some rosy reds how do i tell there sex thay all look the same to me

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53227	From: aasghari51	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: test

helo

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53228	From: Ray	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: test

What's this??? Who approved this for posting? I didn't know we permitted testing on this List -- especially from a new member who's first message is a test ! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aasghari51" <aasghari51@...> wrote: > > helo >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53229	From: harry perry	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: test

I approved it. Why not????? Do you have a list of what you permit???. Harry ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:34 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: test   What's this??? Who approved this for posting? I didn't know we permitted testing on this List -- especially from a new member who's first message is a test ! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "aasghari51" <aasghari51@...> wrote: > > helo > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53230	From: s.lynda15	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello

Hello all. Just joined. So excited! Finally, ppl who like to talk about fish as much as I, lol. Just upgraded to a 70 gallon, and loving it. Trying for a relatively peaceful cichlid tank with Angels, Green and Gold severums and a few yellow labs...pics hopefully coming soon.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53231	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello

I would not mix the yellow labs and angels the angels fins will get nipped. Not sure about the others. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of s.lynda15 Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello Hello all. Just joined. So excited! Finally, ppl who like to talk about fish as much as I, lol. Just upgraded to a 70 gallon, and loving it. Trying for a relatively peaceful cichlid tank with Angels, Green and Gold severums and a few yellow labs...pics hopefully coming soon. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53232	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello

Hello:    Welcome to the group.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: s.lynda15 <s.lynda15@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 8:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello   Hello all. Just joined. So excited! Finally, ppl who like to talk about fish as much as I, lol. Just upgraded to a 70 gallon, and loving it. Trying for a relatively peaceful cichlid tank with Angels, Green and Gold severums and a few yellow labs...pics hopefully coming soon. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53233	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: Re: cycling without fish

Hi Ray, a late thank you for the detailed description on how to cycle a tank with plain ammonia! I will try this within the next days with our former hospital tank. It seems much easier to cycle it and use it then as hospital or quarantine tank than having to deal with the constant ammonia rise in it during use otherwise. I think after cycling I will put a few little fish in there to keep it cycled and in need I can transfer them out into the other tank temporarily. Somebody suggested also to keep a second filter running on the main tank and transfer it to the hospital tank when in need but I have no opening in the plastic cover that allows for a second filter there. I hope this makes sense... Thank you very much! Nora > > Cycling a tank without fish in it is easy to do just by adding "drops of ammonia," just as you mentioned. These ammonia "drops" that you talked about are just that -- drops of liquid household ammonia from a bottle. You need to use plain clear ammonia though, not sudsy ammonia; I think it's bottled as 10% ammonia. You need to maintain a 4.0 to 5.0 ppm level of ammonia in your fish-free aquarium during cycling. This is done by adding 3 to 5 drops of household ammonia. As each day passes, you'll need to add additional drops of ammonia to keep the level of it at between 4.0 and 5.0 ppm. Near the end of 10 to 12 days, you'll find that you may need to add less ammonia to keep the level at 4.0 -- 5.0 ppm, as it will be spiking at this time, but it should be allowed to spike as part of starting off the nitrite-consuming bacteria (there are two general and separate types of nitrifying bacteria used in the aquarium, those that first convert ammonia into nitrite, and those that then convert nitrite into nitrate as the second step in the cycle. > > From there on in, the ammonia will slowly drop -- unless you add enough more ammonia to keep the level up, which you'll need to do as you'll now need to start feeding the bacteria that converts the nitrite to nitrate. The nitrite level will spike at between 20 and 24 days into the cycle, then slowly start to taper off. When the ammonia and the nitrite levels remain at 0.0. ppm the following days that you're still adding 3 to 5 drops of ammonia each day, then you know that your nitrifying bacteria has become fully established as they'll be consuming every drop of ammonia you're adding at this time. At this time, you'll need to make some water changes before adding fish, as you'll need to get the nitrate level down. Needless to say, you need to make frequent use of your test kits to follow the cycle's progress. It's quite simple, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi again, > > > > because of the topic of a betta in a non-cycled tank.... An example might be: right now I have 2 platies in a former hospital tank that is a couple of weeks old but not fully cycled yet (longer story why they are in there). > > I guess 2 platies might be the equivalent of one betta regarding the bioload ? It is a 10G tank but I still have to do daily 50% water changes to keep the ammonia below 0.25 ppm, additional with adding bacteria from several companies several times plus using a detoxyfier with each change. I read betta are hardy fish and probably can "take it" without maybe exhibiting obvious signs (in dependence of the other water values) but I would guess the ammonia will be there in similar amounts. > > > > How would you cycle an empty tank? I read ammonia drops: where do you get those? Other chemicals/additives? > > Using Fish food I read has a lot of phosphor and might cause excessive algae? > > > > I am not sure if we can transfer the platies again (they are horrified of the net) but we might need to put them back in the former "clean" tank... > > > > Thanks for reading and info, > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53234	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/25/2012
Subject: adding sponge to biofilter

Hi, I recently got advice about filter improvements to improve the performance of our bio filter... I now added a bio sponge in the free space next to the bio filter in the power filter on our 10 G tank. But it does not cover the whole area of the biofilter. Does it nevertheless help with the colonization in a larger way or would the water need to be forced through it without an escape route around it? My guess was that it still improves enough the available surface to be of use but maybe I would need to ensure the flow really through it? Thanks if anyone has experience there.. Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53235	From: haecklers	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: adding sponge to biofilter

I think it still improves it, depending on just how much space is around it. Mine have around 1/2 centimeter on both sides and they work fine. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I recently got advice about filter improvements to improve the performance of our bio filter... > > I now added a bio sponge in the free space next to the bio filter in the power filter on our 10 G tank. But it does not cover the whole area of the biofilter. Does it nevertheless help with the colonization in a larger way or would the water need to be forced through it without an escape route around it? > My guess was that it still improves enough the available surface to be of use but maybe I would need to ensure the flow really through it? > > Thanks if anyone has experience there.. > > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53237	From: kuradi8	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: Missouri, USA, Cichlid keeper..hello

Yellow labs and angels have totally different water parameter requirements. One wants hard and alkaline, the other wants soft and acidic. One is African, the other is new world. Please Google for more information on creating proper ecosystems for each. No matter how much you might like each, mustard and ice cream do not go together. ~kai > Donna Ransome wrote: > > I would not mix the yellow labs and angels the angels fins will get nipped. > Not sure about the others. > > > > _____ > > s.lynda15 wrote: > > > Hello all. Just joined. So excited! Finally, ppl who like to talk about fish as much as I, lol. Just upgraded to a 70 gallon, and loving it. Trying for a relatively peaceful cichlid tank with Angels, Green and Gold severums and a few yellow labs...pics hopefully coming soon. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53238	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: adding sponge to biofilter

I think mine is similar, Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "haecklers" <haecklers@...> wrote: > > I think it still improves it, depending on just how much space is around it. Mine have around 1/2 centimeter on both sides and they work fine. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I recently got advice about filter improvements to improve the performance of our bio filter... > > > > I now added a bio sponge in the free space next to the bio filter in the power filter on our 10 G tank. But it does not cover the whole area of the biofilter. Does it nevertheless help with the colonization in a larger way or would the water need to be forced through it without an escape route around it? > > My guess was that it still improves enough the available surface to be of use but maybe I would need to ensure the flow really through it? > > > > Thanks if anyone has experience there.. > > > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53239	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: rocks.

hi all. i appreciate all your knolledge. i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i think it should be ok. i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution and scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and if the rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house my great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. thanks al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53240	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.

What pH and KH are you shooting for in your tank? What is it now? If you want pH high, the vinegar/bubble test is not necessary. Soak in bleach solution, scrub, rinse, rinse, rinse and use dechlorinator. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] rocks. hi all. i appreciate all your knolledge. i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i think it should be ok. i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution and scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and if the rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house my great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. thanks al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53241	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: rainbow fish?

Hi, does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy going community tank fish? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53242	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

I think they're not tropical fish but like cooler water, so not suitable for a tropical tank. There aren't many small not tropical fish out there. Dora On 2/26/2012 6:21 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi, > > does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy > going community tank fish? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53243	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

These are Tropical fish. New Guinea, Indonesia, parts of Australia. I don't have my books handy for further reference but all my rainbows are kept in Tropical community tanks. -Mike G -----Original Message- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 7:20 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish? I think they're not tropical fish but like cooler water, so not suitable for a tropical tank. There aren't many small not tropical fish out there. Dora On 2/26/2012 6:21 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi, > > does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy > going community tank fish? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53244	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

You want a 30” tank or larger and ideal temp is 75-76 degrees. They like a heavily planted, stress-free tank. Try to keep 5 fish all of the same gender, or if you have room for more than 5 fish keep the number of males and females evenly divided. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 7:21 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish? Hi, does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy going community tank fish? Thanks, Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53245	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.

thanks donna... i'm neutralish on the tank; its my little nocturnal cory tank beside the bed. i have it soaking in a 15 percent bleach solution... ill give it a day or so then scrub and rinse till i'm blue in the face.. hopefully after all that it passes the vinegar test. :-)>>> its scary putting a 16 pound rock in the little tank...but i guess they take that into account when they make them.. water's kinda heavy also.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > What pH and KH are you shooting for in your tank? What is it now? If you > want pH high, the vinegar/bubble test is not necessary. > > > > Soak in bleach solution, scrub, rinse, rinse, rinse and use dechlorinator. > > > hi all. > i appreciate all your knolledge. > i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i > think it should be ok. > i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution and > scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and if the > rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? > i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house my > great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised > there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. > i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. > thanks > al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53246	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you change it? Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does it need to be changed? Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53247	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

I thought their water temperature was like 65 degrees. Dora On 2/26/2012 10:38 PM, Deenerz@... wrote: > > These are Tropical fish. > > New Guinea, Indonesia, parts of Australia. I don't have my books handy > for further reference but all my rainbows are kept in Tropical > community tanks. > > -Mike G > > -----Original Message- > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com>> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 7:20 pm > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] rainbow fish? > > I think they're not tropical fish but like cooler water, so not > suitable > for a tropical tank. There aren't many small not tropical fish out > there. > > Dora > > On 2/26/2012 6:21 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy > > going community tank fish? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53248	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

The internet is a wonderful place to get information: Just one of hundreds of references: http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53249	From: jason	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: bichir help

Hello group, ok for starters luck for me I have a few tanks and was able to stop the madness. Here is what happened. I have a 55 gal. as with a great community of tropic fish (barbs,mollies, platies, tetras, gouramis,and knives. I also had a dino. bichir that was getting along fine and i knew that it would eat smaller fish if i didn't keep him full of shrimp. how ever even with all the safety I was taking it ate three of my large Guorami's. Now I have him in a little 10 gal. by his self. Is there anything I can use as a tank mate for this guy. I have other tanks that I can move fish around and get him to a 30 gal. with a couple of tank mates.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53250	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

I use 18 dessert spoonfulls of 3mm carbon pellets in pantyhose sausages & put them in my filter socks. I change them roughly once every 3 weeks & I have a 100 [UK] gallon tank with 4 streamlined Goldfish. John*<o)))< * On 27 February 2012 17:52, <LJFUQUA@...> wrote: > ** > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > change it? > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > it need to be changed? > Thanks! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53251	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal experience about peacefulness etc. I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > Charles H >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53252	From: john Lewis	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help

Hello:    How big is the Bichir.  I would imagine it to be fairly large in order to eat Gouramis.   Knowing how big it is would help in figuring out what to keep with it.    I've kept them and never had one go after food so large.  The Bichirs I kept stuck with smaller food for the most part.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: jason <has_04_04@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 3:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] bichir help   Hello group, ok for starters luck for me I have a few tanks and was able to stop the madness. Here is what happened. I have a 55 gal. as with a great community of tropic fish (barbs,mollies, platies, tetras, gouramis,and knives. I also had a dino. bichir that was getting along fine and i knew that it would eat smaller fish if i didn't keep him full of shrimp. how ever even with all the safety I was taking it ate three of my large Guorami's. Now I have him in a little 10 gal. by his self. Is there anything I can use as a tank mate for this guy. I have other tanks that I can move fish around and get him to a 30 gal. with a couple of tank mates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53253	From: D and g F	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help

you can put it in with some biger oscers and a placo thay will give it a run just make shere that thay are the same size or so   ________________________________ From: jason <has_04_04@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 2:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] bichir help   Hello group, ok for starters luck for me I have a few tanks and was able to stop the madness. Here is what happened. I have a 55 gal. as with a great community of tropic fish (barbs,mollies, platies, tetras, gouramis,and knives. I also had a dino. bichir that was getting along fine and i knew that it would eat smaller fish if i didn't keep him full of shrimp. how ever even with all the safety I was taking it ate three of my large Guorami's. Now I have him in a little 10 gal. by his self. Is there anything I can use as a tank mate for this guy. I have other tanks that I can move fish around and get him to a 30 gal. with a couple of tank mates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53254	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi, I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. Hope that helps, Nora > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > change it? > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > it need to be changed? > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53255	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Nora, Generally they are a great community fish. I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. Mike G -----Original Message----- From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal experience about peacefulness etc. I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > Charles H >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53256	From: cobra427lady	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

I have them now too as a community fish in my 115G and 40G....the larger tank supports 4 Red Rainbows, 3 Turquoise and 3 Australian Rainbows - all between 3- 3.5 inches long. They share the tank with my Apistos, Rams and Roseline Sharks, to name a few. The small tank supports the Celebes Rainbows - I love their darting habit; they live with Neon & Cardinal Tetras and a thriving colony of albino long fin bristle nose plecos that breed uncontrollably LOL Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > does anybody has experience with dwarf rainbow fish? Are they easy going community tank fish? > > Thanks, > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53257	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Nora, > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > Mike G > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > experience about peacefulness etc. > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> > wrote: > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > Charles H > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53258	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: bichir help

Knowing how big it is now would surely help a lot, but I would like to make sure you are aware that it can't stay long term in a 30 gallon tank because it will get too big. Full grown these fish get to be about a foot long and they are predatory and will eat whatever fits into their mouths. While oscars, jack dempseys, and other large semi aggressive South & Central American cichlids make good tank mates, that also requires a very large tank to keep them all together because they all get quite large and are heavy waste producers. To have 2 - 3 suitable tank mates you'd need at least 125 gallons for a set up like that by the time they are all full grown. If you want some accurate information about them you can find it here: http://fishprofiles.com/profiles/freshwater/OthersFW/Polypterus_senegalus/ Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, D and g F <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > you can put it in with some biger oscers and a placo thay will give it a run just make shere that thay are the same size or so >   > > > ________________________________ > From: jason <has_04_04@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 2:29 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] bichir help > > > >   > > Hello group, ok for starters luck for me I have a few tanks and was able to stop the madness. Here is what happened. I have a 55 gal. as with a great community of tropic fish (barbs,mollies, platies, tetras, gouramis,and knives. I also had a dino. bichir that was getting along fine and i knew that it would eat smaller fish if i didn't keep him full of shrimp. how ever even with all the safety I was taking it ate three of my large Guorami's. Now I have him in a little 10 gal. by his self. Is there anything I can use as a tank mate for this guy. I have other tanks that I can move fish around and get him to a 30 gal. with a couple of tank mates. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53259	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! Dora On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > Nora, > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > Mike G > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here > > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > > experience about peacefulness etc. > > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Harrison <charles@> > > wrote: > > > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53260	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Hi Dora, I have some that are smaller at full adult size. This link shows a 2.6 inch one. http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbow-fish-tropical-fish-fish/pseudomugil-furcatus-forktail-rainbowfish-blue-eye-rainbowfish/ Description: A truly vibrant Rainbowfish, the Forktail or Blue Eye is a sight to behold. With black and bright yellow tipped fins and tail, silvery-grey bodies and glowing red markings, the Pseudomugil furcatus grows to a meagre 6.5cm (2.6 inches), and lives up to 3 years. The males usually have a longer dorsal fin and are more brightly coloured than females. Mike G -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 28, 2012 10:20 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! Dora On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>;, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > Nora, > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > Mike G > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53261	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Dora, Your research results are erroneous. If you searched the Web for this info, perhaps you found one of those many sites that I've mentioned in the past, that may look authoritive but in reality are bogus. The Web is not a place to go to find info, unless you already know something about the subject to know if it's bogus or not. There a number of Rainbowfish that are smaller than 4". To name a few, I'll start with the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia praecox) which gets to 2.5". Then there the Threadfin Rainbowfish (Iriantherina werneri) which gets to 2", and the Dwarf Auatralian Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi) which gets to 3". I believe there are several others than are also smaller than 4". BTW, all Rainbows are best kept in groups of no fewer than 5 of a species. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! > > Dora > > On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > > > Mike G > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here > > > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > > > experience about peacefulness etc. > > > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Harrison <charles@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53262	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Nora, How many filter inserts/cartridges do you have in your power filter? When you say you "exchange" the carbon filter pads every 2 to 3 weeks, is this the only insert you have in your filter, or do you have at least one other type? By "exchanging," are we to understand that you are replacing the old carbon filter insert for a new one each time? If this is the only insert/cartridge that you have in your filter, you are throwing away almost all of your nitrifying bacteria each time you do this. If you do have a second insert in your filter, you're still throwing away a good portion of this beneficial (and needed) bacteria when you discard the old populated one and add a brand new one. You can be causing mini-cycles to occur in your tank by doing this. It's always best to clean your filter inserts (until they get worn out) in old aquarium water rather to exchange them for new ones that need to build up bacteria again -- but which can't even do that since you're changing them out every 2 to 3 weeks -- much too soon for the bacteria to get established, but immaterial anyway if you're just going to throw them away after such a short time. While it's impossible to say how long the carbon actually lasts in its activity, it should see a minimum of at least a month on average, unless you have a large bioload -- and then, you needn't discard the whole insert, but merely replace the carbon it it. In this way, the mesh insert itself will still be holding your beneficial bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > Hope that helps, > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > > change it? > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > > it need to be changed? > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53263	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.

Hello: As long as you don't drop the rock in the tank you would be surprised at the weight the glass could hold. Place it carefully and it will be fine. Also, in case anyone is interested, water weighs about 8.4 pounds per gallon. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53264	From: joe t	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hello: I don't use any carbon at all in my tanks with one exception. If I want to filter out any treatments from the water. Carbon is not active that long and once it has absorbed to its capacity it is not doing a thing for the better of the tank water. If you do your partial water changes religiously you should not and do not need carbon. It's a waste of your money. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > Hope that helps, > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > > change it? > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > > it need to be changed? > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53265	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Correction -- rainbow fish?

The last word in this message should read; "specimen" (not species). Just as with any schooling fish, it's best to have at least 5 (specimems) of the same species. Sorry 'bout that ! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > Your research results are erroneous. If you searched the Web for this info, perhaps you found one of those many sites that I've mentioned in the past, that may look authoritive but in reality are bogus. The Web is not a place to go to find info, unless you already know something about the subject to know if it's bogus or not. There a number of Rainbowfish that are smaller than 4". To name a few, I'll start with the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia praecox) which gets to 2.5". Then there the Threadfin Rainbowfish (Iriantherina werneri) which gets to 2", and the Dwarf Auatralian Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi) which gets to 3". I believe there are several others than are also smaller than 4". BTW, all Rainbows are best kept in groups of no fewer than 5 of a species. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! > > > > Dora > > > > On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > > > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > > > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > > > > > Mike G > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here > > > > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > > > > experience about peacefulness etc. > > > > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Harrison <charles@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > > > > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53266	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rainbow fish?

Hi Dora, if you look particular under "dwarf rainbow" the right webpages might show up. I was interested in the dwarf neon rainbow but since they like lots of others I will wait for a bigger setup... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > Your research results are erroneous. If you searched the Web for this info, perhaps you found one of those many sites that I've mentioned in the past, that may look authoritive but in reality are bogus. The Web is not a place to go to find info, unless you already know something about the subject to know if it's bogus or not. There a number of Rainbowfish that are smaller than 4". To name a few, I'll start with the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia praecox) which gets to 2.5". Then there the Threadfin Rainbowfish (Iriantherina werneri) which gets to 2", and the Dwarf Auatralian Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia maccullochi) which gets to 3". I believe there are several others than are also smaller than 4". BTW, all Rainbows are best kept in groups of no fewer than 5 of a species. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! > > > > Dora > > > > On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different varieties, > > > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to other > > > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > > > > > Mike G > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody here > > > > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > > > > experience about peacefulness etc. > > > > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Harrison <charles@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > > > > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53267	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Ray, thanks for your input! yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter options...I probably should explain the details a little better: The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size of the carbon filter. I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently about carbon filter, sponges etc. The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae form the glass that my fish love to eat. There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that matter?). So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon filter than a big bio filter... I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and do not worry about open spots for the water? Thanks a lot, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Nora, > > How many filter inserts/cartridges do you have in your power filter? When you say you "exchange" the carbon filter pads every 2 to 3 weeks, is this the only insert you have in your filter, or do you have at least one other type? By "exchanging," are we to understand that you are replacing the old carbon filter insert for a new one each time? If this is the only insert/cartridge that you have in your filter, you are throwing away almost all of your nitrifying bacteria each time you do this. If you do have a second insert in your filter, you're still throwing away a good portion of this beneficial (and needed) bacteria when you discard the old populated one and add a brand new one. You can be causing mini-cycles to occur in your tank by doing this. > > It's always best to clean your filter inserts (until they get worn out) in old aquarium water rather to exchange them for new ones that need to build up bacteria again -- but which can't even do that since you're changing them out every 2 to 3 weeks -- much too soon for the bacteria to get established, but immaterial anyway if you're just going to throw them away after such a short time. While it's impossible to say how long the carbon actually lasts in its activity, it should see a minimum of at least a month on average, unless you have a large bioload -- and then, you needn't discard the whole insert, but merely replace the carbon it it. In this way, the mesh insert itself will still be holding your beneficial bacteria. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > Hope that helps, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53268	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Nora, I use sausages made of pantyhose filled with carbon pellets in my filter. However, I would add that-they are replaced every 3 or 4 weeks & only use them because I have such a high volume of toxins constantly in my system despite 25% daily water changes. This is due to being seriously overstocked with 4 large streamlined Goldfish in a 120 gallon tank but cannot upgrade as I live in a small flat so no more space. In your case I would not recommend using carbon at all unless you had some toxicity in your water. Because your present filter seems very inflexible with regard to media changes you might want to look into getting a completely new filtration system-perhaps a small canister. Being outside of the tank a canister would also increase slightly the amount of gallonage in your tank. John. On 28 February 2012 22:22, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > > thanks for your input! > yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. > That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter > options...I probably should explain the details a little better: > > The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge > inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. > and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the > cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio > filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size > of the carbon filter. > > I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched > the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to > many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently > about carbon filter, sponges etc. > > The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as > microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot > just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... > I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it > became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water > throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It > happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae > form the glass that my fish love to eat. > > There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another > filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I > might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that > matter?). > > So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material > (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the > right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization > and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... > > Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some > TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good > water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love > to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional > sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very > welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon > filter than a big bio filter... > > I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to > clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and > do not worry about open spots for the water? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53269	From: D and g	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: hi all i am in need of advise

i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to the fish and plants

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53270	From: Dora Smith	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: Correction -- rainbow fish?

I didn't get confused. However the 1.8 inch species is yellow and brown; wrong color for my tank. Dora On 2/28/2012 3:48 PM, Ray wrote: > > The last word in this message should read; "specimen" (not species). > Just as with any schooling fish, it's best to have at least 5 > (specimems) of the same species. Sorry 'bout that ! > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > Your research results are erroneous. If you searched the Web for > this info, perhaps you found one of those many sites that I've > mentioned in the past, that may look authoritive but in reality are > bogus. The Web is not a place to go to find info, unless you already > know something about the subject to know if it's bogus or not. There a > number of Rainbowfish that are smaller than 4". To name a few, I'll > start with the Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia praecox) which > gets to 2.5". Then there the Threadfin Rainbowfish (Iriantherina > werneri) which gets to 2", and the Dwarf Auatralian Rainbowfish > (Melanotaenia maccullochi) which gets to 3". I believe there are > several others than are also smaller than 4". BTW, all Rainbows are > best kept in groups of no fewer than 5 of a species. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > I did a little research; found the smallest of them is 4 inches long! > > > > > > Dora > > > > > > On 2/28/2012 11:14 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks, when I have a bigger tank I love to have some.... > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > > > > > Generally they are a great community fish. > > > > > > > > > > I have kept them in many community tanks, Several different > varieties, > > > > > from small to larger and they generally are not bothersome to > other > > > > > fish. Some cichlid keepers use them as dither fish for their fish. > > > > > > > > > > Mike G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> > > > > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>> > > > > > Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:50 pm > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: rainbow fish? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, I looked on some webpages too... I was hoping somebody > here > > > > > might have them in a community tank and can tell from personal > > > > > experience about peacefulness etc. > > > > > I was surprised they do not seem to be very common in fish stores? > > > > > > > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Charles Harrison <charles@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The internet is a wonderful place to get information: > > > > > > > > > > > > Just one of hundreds of references: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.aquariumfishexperts.com/tropical-fish-fish/rainbowfish-species/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53271	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Nora, you can actually ignore the instructions about replacing your carbon pad every 2-4 weeks, you only need to replace it if you use medications. The carbon will absorb the medications and then need to be replaced, I've kept carbon pads in my filters for over a year before without replacing them. I use them until they fall apart. If you are doing your weekly filter cleaning then it's not as important to replace the carbon pad. Throwing the carbon pad out can also cause a mini cycle, so watch your ammonia and nitrites after you throw the pad out and put a new one in, you may have to do extra water changes until the nitrifying bacteria regrows. Amber On 2/27/2012 6:52 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi, > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter > insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but > thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is > now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium > glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to > exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > Hope that helps, > Nora > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how > often do you > > > change it? > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how > often does > > > it need to be changed? > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53272	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Get aquarium silicone, it's non toxic (just make sure to let it FULLY cure and dry before putting it into water, especially with fish in it). Amber On 2/28/2012 4:46 PM, D and g wrote: > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant > tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek > to the fish and plants > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Amber, I'm not certain but I think carbon could leech it's collected impurities back into the water after a few weeks & this is why it cannot be kept indefinitely-can someone confirm? John*<o)))<* On 29 February 2012 01:57, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Hi Nora, you can actually ignore the instructions about replacing your > carbon pad every 2-4 weeks, you only need to replace it if you use > medications. The carbon will absorb the medications and then need to be > replaced, I've kept carbon pads in my filters for over a year before > without replacing them. I use them until they fall apart. > If you are doing your weekly filter cleaning then it's not as important > to replace the carbon pad. Throwing the carbon pad out can also cause a > mini cycle, so watch your ammonia and nitrites after you throw the pad > out and put a new one in, you may have to do extra water changes until > the nitrifying bacteria regrows. > > Amber > > On 2/27/2012 6:52 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter > > insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but > > thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is > > now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium > > glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to > > exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > Hope that helps, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how > > often do you > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how > > often does > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53274	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: rocks.

thanks for the reassurance joe. after soaking the rock for a day, i see that it has a tiny bit of sand comming off it... so i'm guessing its.... a... hmmm...a sandstone maybe... :-)>>> i'm sure the corys won't object to the addition of some sand mixed in with the gravel to root around in. my concern is with the happiness of the aqua clear h.o.b. filter... has anyone had experience with that kind of filter and a sandy bottom? should i be expecting heartache in keeping the filter clean? as always, this relative beginner [who reads a lot] thanks you all. > Hello: > > As long as you don't drop the rock in the tank you would be surprised at the weight the glass could hold. Place it carefully and it will be fine. > > Also, in case anyone is interested, water weighs about 8.4 pounds per gallon. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53275	From: Ray	Date: 2/28/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Cyanoacrylate cement (instant/super glue) is non-toxic to fish and plants after it sets up. While aquarium silicone sealant might be the first choice one might think of to use, it doesn't hold well on Plexi-Glass, just as it doesn't hold well on Acrylic aquariums ("PlexiGlass" is a trademark of Acrylic -- it's the same hard plastic). If silicone sealant held well on bonding panels of Acrylic tanks together, aquarium manufacturers would use this to build these tanks -- but they don't, because it doesn't. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "D and g" <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to the fish and plants >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53276	From: Ray	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

John, Up until recently, this was thought to be true. Lately, however, there's more and more controversy as to whether this really occurs; the jury seems to still be out on this one. It still may be a good idea though, to not allow carbon to be kept in the filter after it becomes "saturated" with impurities. The problem has always been not being able to know when the carbon's activity is used up, but the general concensus has usually been its usefulness is depleted after about a month, on average. If we want to be cautious in assuming the impurities may still leach out, it would be good to change it at this time, although this may not be needed. "Stay tuned" for further findings on this by the scientists. The manufacturers would have us buying fresh carbon every week if they could convince us of that need. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I'm not certain but I think carbon could leech it's collected impurities > back into the water after a few weeks & this is why it cannot be kept > indefinitely-can someone confirm? > > John*<o)))<* > > On 29 February 2012 01:57, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > Hi Nora, you can actually ignore the instructions about replacing your > > carbon pad every 2-4 weeks, you only need to replace it if you use > > medications. The carbon will absorb the medications and then need to be > > replaced, I've kept carbon pads in my filters for over a year before > > without replacing them. I use them until they fall apart. > > If you are doing your weekly filter cleaning then it's not as important > > to replace the carbon pad. Throwing the carbon pad out can also cause a > > mini cycle, so watch your ammonia and nitrites after you throw the pad > > out and put a new one in, you may have to do extra water changes until > > the nitrifying bacteria regrows. > > > > Amber > > > > On 2/27/2012 6:52 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter > > > insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but > > > thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is > > > now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium > > > glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to > > > exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > > > Hope that helps, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how > > > often do you > > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how > > > often does > > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53277	From: Ray	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Nora, I recall now, your concern about this problem several weeks ago, and the dialog from others that went along with it -- now that you mention this again. Hard to keep all these posts/threads separated from one another over time, when there are other members writing in with similar problems. I see where you're coming from here, but up until now I wasn't aware that the carbon in your pad is imbedded into it and not added as a separate layer between two outer pads/coverings. I would not advise replacing it with a sponge for a couple of reasons, the first being the possible problem you've brought up about having openings in that material where the water would just run through. Besides having a biofilter section, you also need a mechanical filtration section which filters out the suspended physical particals. Any breaches in the mechanical filter would just allow most of the water to go through any openings unfiltered. I remember suggesting to you, that you slit the carbon cartridge near the top and just dump the old carbon out for new -- although I don't know now if that was in one of my messages that never made it out of my 'puter. I see now though, that your carbon cartridge is not designed to allow this. One additional problem with using a sponge as a replacement for the carbon pad is that there are all densities of sponges available, with many restricting the water flow too much. It's hard to know what to buy as a sponge that would ensure a good water flow and yet retain all of the physical particles you'd want to filter out. You could try experimental though, until you find one that works. Still, with your frequent scrapings of brown algae, these sponges are going to get clogged up pretty fast -- and will need replacing, just as you're doing now. It might be time to look into a new HOB filter, such as a Hagen AquaClear filter. I remember the Tetra Whisper filters I've used had a cartridge that had carbon sandwiched in between its thin bag-like double sides that allowed for just the carbon replacement if the top was slit open. These bags were easily cleaned off with an old toothbrush if needed to. Try looking into something like these. What your spending in Tetra SafeStart bacteria supplements, you could have already bought a new filter. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > thanks for your input! > yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter options...I probably should explain the details a little better: > > The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size of the carbon filter. > > I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently about carbon filter, sponges etc. > > The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... > I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae form the glass that my fish love to eat. > > There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that matter?). > > So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... > > Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon filter than a big bio filter... > > I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and do not worry about open spots for the water? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Nora, > > > > How many filter inserts/cartridges do you have in your power filter? When you say you "exchange" the carbon filter pads every 2 to 3 weeks, is this the only insert you have in your filter, or do you have at least one other type? By "exchanging," are we to understand that you are replacing the old carbon filter insert for a new one each time? If this is the only insert/cartridge that you have in your filter, you are throwing away almost all of your nitrifying bacteria each time you do this. If you do have a second insert in your filter, you're still throwing away a good portion of this beneficial (and needed) bacteria when you discard the old populated one and add a brand new one. You can be causing mini-cycles to occur in your tank by doing this. > > > > It's always best to clean your filter inserts (until they get worn out) in old aquarium water rather to exchange them for new ones that need to build up bacteria again -- but which can't even do that since you're changing them out every 2 to 3 weeks -- much too soon for the bacteria to get established, but immaterial anyway if you're just going to throw them away after such a short time. While it's impossible to say how long the carbon actually lasts in its activity, it should see a minimum of at least a month on average, unless you have a large bioload -- and then, you needn't discard the whole insert, but merely replace the carbon it it. In this way, the mesh insert itself will still be holding your beneficial bacteria. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > > > Hope that helps, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53278	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Black Ghost Knife Fish

Hi Would like to know from those who have large black ghost, what you would feed a 12" black ghost knife.  Thanks Siva [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53279	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Hi Ray, My acrylic tank was 'chemically bonded' I never really though about it before but I guess that means it was glued with cyanoacrylate cement? John*<o)))< * On 29 February 2012 07:55, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Cyanoacrylate cement (instant/super glue) is non-toxic to fish and plants > after it sets up. While aquarium silicone sealant might be the first choice > one might think of to use, it doesn't hold well on Plexi-Glass, just as it > doesn't hold well on Acrylic aquariums ("PlexiGlass" is a trademark of > Acrylic -- it's the same hard plastic). If silicone sealant held well on > bonding panels of Acrylic tanks together, aquarium manufacturers would use > this to build these tanks -- but they don't, because it doesn't. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "D and g" <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant > tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to > the fish and plants > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53280	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Haha, ain't that the case-just like the rest of the media they tell us to religiously change regularly. I bought an Eheim 2026 about 6 years ago for a 40 gallon tank, really good filter & it is still going strong running a small UV sub-system. The instruction leaflet recommended changing the blue pad that sits on top of the lower basket every 6 months or so. I clean the filter approx every 2 months & that blue sponge gets a really good wringing & rinsing each time-it's still every bit as robust & sound as the day I bought it. I didn't keep the supplied substrate that was ceramic chips & balls. Instead I used nylon pot scrubbers [which are also indestructible by the way!] I sent the ceramic media to a friend & she is still using them. The only thing that I replace regularly is the white polyester foam 'polishing' pads & I cut them out myself. John<o)))< On 29 February 2012 08:11, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > > Up until recently, this was thought to be true. Lately, however, there's > more and more controversy as to whether this really occurs; the jury seems > to still be out on this one. It still may be a good idea though, to not > allow carbon to be kept in the filter after it becomes "saturated" with > impurities. The problem has always been not being able to know when the > carbon's activity is used up, but the general concensus has usually been > its usefulness is depleted after about a month, on average. If we want to > be cautious in assuming the impurities may still leach out, it would be > good to change it at this time, although this may not be needed. "Stay > tuned" for further findings on this by the scientists. The manufacturers > would have us buying fresh carbon every week if they could convince us of > that need. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53281	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Ray, yes thanks for your advice! I will look into different filter options in addition. Right now I squeezed some additional sponge in a gap next to the bio filter. So I have the carbon filter that acts also as physical filter that covers that entire water flow, then the bio filter and after that in the same compartment the new sponge part in addition. It is in there since a few days now and I hope because it is last in line it will not become clogged and can stay in there indefinitely... But it is true: the whole filter I think is less than 20,-- while every bottle of TetraSafeStart bacteria is 10,--...plus the possible stress on the fish. I give my "improved" filter system a last chance and see how it works when I have to replace (or clean thoroughly) the carbon filter again in a few weeks. Thanks for all input!! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I recall now, your concern about this problem several weeks ago, and the dialog from others that went along with it -- now that you mention this again. Hard to keep all these posts/threads separated from one another over time, when there are other members writing in with similar problems. I see where you're coming from here, but up until now I wasn't aware that the carbon in your pad is imbedded into it and not added as a separate layer between two outer pads/coverings. > > I would not advise replacing it with a sponge for a couple of reasons, the first being the possible problem you've brought up about having openings in that material where the water would just run through. Besides having a biofilter section, you also need a mechanical filtration section which filters out the suspended physical particals. Any breaches in the mechanical filter would just allow most of the water to go through any openings unfiltered. > > I remember suggesting to you, that you slit the carbon cartridge near the top and just dump the old carbon out for new -- although I don't know now if that was in one of my messages that never made it out of my 'puter. I see now though, that your carbon cartridge is not designed to allow this. One additional problem with using a sponge as a replacement for the carbon pad is that there are all densities of sponges available, with many restricting the water flow too much. It's hard to know what to buy as a sponge that would ensure a good water flow and yet retain all of the physical particles you'd want to filter out. You could try experimental though, until you find one that works. Still, with your frequent scrapings of brown algae, these sponges are going to get clogged up pretty fast -- and will need replacing, just as you're doing now. > > It might be time to look into a new HOB filter, such as a Hagen AquaClear filter. I remember the Tetra Whisper filters I've used had a cartridge that had carbon sandwiched in between its thin bag-like double sides that allowed for just the carbon replacement if the top was slit open. These bags were easily cleaned off with an old toothbrush if needed to. Try looking into something like these. What your spending in Tetra SafeStart bacteria supplements, you could have already bought a new filter. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > thanks for your input! > > yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter options...I probably should explain the details a little better: > > > > The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size of the carbon filter. > > > > I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently about carbon filter, sponges etc. > > > > The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... > > I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae form the glass that my fish love to eat. > > > > There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that matter?). > > > > So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... > > > > Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon filter than a big bio filter... > > > > I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and do not worry about open spots for the water? > > > > Thanks a lot, > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Nora, > > > > > > How many filter inserts/cartridges do you have in your power filter? When you say you "exchange" the carbon filter pads every 2 to 3 weeks, is this the only insert you have in your filter, or do you have at least one other type? By "exchanging," are we to understand that you are replacing the old carbon filter insert for a new one each time? If this is the only insert/cartridge that you have in your filter, you are throwing away almost all of your nitrifying bacteria each time you do this. If you do have a second insert in your filter, you're still throwing away a good portion of this beneficial (and needed) bacteria when you discard the old populated one and add a brand new one. You can be causing mini-cycles to occur in your tank by doing this. > > > > > > It's always best to clean your filter inserts (until they get worn out) in old aquarium water rather to exchange them for new ones that need to build up bacteria again -- but which can't even do that since you're changing them out every 2 to 3 weeks -- much too soon for the bacteria to get established, but immaterial anyway if you're just going to throw them away after such a short time. While it's impossible to say how long the carbon actually lasts in its activity, it should see a minimum of at least a month on average, unless you have a large bioload -- and then, you needn't discard the whole insert, but merely replace the carbon it it. In this way, the mesh insert itself will still be holding your beneficial bacteria. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > > > > > Hope that helps, > > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how often do you > > > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how often does > > > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53282	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON

Hi Amber, thanks for your input! I only replaced the carbon filter because it got clogged relatively fast... In message 53267 I write about the troubles in a little more detail. I agree that the frequent exchange causes trouble for the water quality and hope it will work better with the additional sponge insert. I think the design of the setup is not perfect for my case and I will look into different filter systems too... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, you can actually ignore the instructions about replacing your > carbon pad every 2-4 weeks, you only need to replace it if you use > medications. The carbon will absorb the medications and then need to be > replaced, I've kept carbon pads in my filters for over a year before > without replacing them. I use them until they fall apart. > If you are doing your weekly filter cleaning then it's not as important > to replace the carbon pad. Throwing the carbon pad out can also cause a > mini cycle, so watch your ammonia and nitrites after you throw the pad > out and put a new one in, you may have to do extra water changes until > the nitrifying bacteria regrows. > > Amber > > On 2/27/2012 6:52 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I have a 10G tank with a powerfilter that includes a carbonfilter > > insert. The size of the carbon pad is approx. the size of my hand but > > thin (maybe 5 mm?). I exchange it whenever it gets clogged which is > > now maybe every 2-3 weeks. (I scrape regularly algae from the aquarium > > glass that partially ends up there). In the description it says to > > exchange it every 2-4 weeks. > > > > Hope that helps, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone here use Chemipure? If so, what size tank and how > > often do you > > > > change it? > > > > > > > > Those using carbon: how much do you use per tank size and how > > often does > > > > it need to be changed? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53283	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/29/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?

Hi John, that is interesting! It brings me to the question: do you or anybody knows what type of toxins are filtered out with the carbon filter? Some said one only needs it for medications while it seems in your caste with heavy waste production it has some more benefits? I have to look into canister filters (I know nothing about them :) Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I use sausages made of pantyhose filled with carbon pellets in my filter. > However, I would add that-they are replaced every 3 or 4 weeks & only use > them because I have such a high volume of toxins constantly in my system > despite 25% daily water changes. This is due to being seriously overstocked > with 4 large streamlined Goldfish in a 120 gallon tank but cannot upgrade > as I live in a small flat so no more space. > > In your case I would not recommend using carbon at all unless you had some > toxicity in your water. Because your present filter seems very inflexible > with regard to media changes you might want to look into getting a > completely new filtration system-perhaps a small canister. Being outside of > the tank a canister would also increase slightly the amount of gallonage > in your tank. > > John. > > On 28 February 2012 22:22, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > thanks for your input! > > yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. > > That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter > > options...I probably should explain the details a little better: > > > > The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge > > inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. > > and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the > > cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio > > filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size > > of the carbon filter. > > > > I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched > > the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to > > many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently > > about carbon filter, sponges etc. > > > > The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as > > microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot > > just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... > > I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it > > became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water > > throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It > > happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae > > form the glass that my fish love to eat. > > > > There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another > > filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I > > might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that > > matter?). > > > > So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material > > (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the > > right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization > > and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... > > > > Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some > > TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good > > water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love > > to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional > > sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very > > welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon > > filter than a big bio filter... > > > > I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to > > clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and > > do not worry about open spots for the water? > > > > Thanks a lot, > > Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53284	From: k chen	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

you can find silicon sealant sold in fish shop which is suitable for fishing keeping use. If you need more, GE makes a regular packaging, ie cheaper, silicon sealant which is sold in blue color tube. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss@... Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:55:54 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all i am in need of advise Cyanoacrylate cement (instant/super glue) is non-toxic to fish and plants after it sets up. While aquarium silicone sealant might be the first choice one might think of to use, it doesn't hold well on Plexi-Glass, just as it doesn't hold well on Acrylic aquariums ("PlexiGlass" is a trademark of Acrylic -- it's the same hard plastic). If silicone sealant held well on bonding panels of Acrylic tanks together, aquarium manufacturers would use this to build these tanks -- but they don't, because it doesn't. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "D and g" <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to the fish and plants > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53285	From: Sriram Swaminathan	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish

well...i have around 11" black ghost...ive been feeding him freeze dried blood worms... ________________________________ From: Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012 11:38 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Black Ghost Knife Fish   Hi Would like to know from those who have large black ghost, what you would feed a 12" black ghost knife.  Thanks Siva [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53286	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Hi John, No, Cyanoacrylate cement is not used for acrylic aquarium construction, but it will work for bonding pieces of this PlexiGlass together quite well. I recommended this to our member, "D & G", because of this quality and the inexpensive price. The small tubes of Super Glue can often be found in Dollar Stores for about a buck. Acrylic tanks are bonded together during their manufacture by using very high strength Weld-On (brand name) #4 acrylic cement, which is made of Methylene Chloride (dichloromethane) -- or sometimes called Methyl Ethyl Ketone. This solvent actually dissolves the surfaces of the two pieces of PlexiGlass being joined together and fuses them as one piece of PlexiGlass; much like joining PVC tubing together. It's like "welding" two pieces of steel together in that the whole joint becomes one piece of steel, only in this case,the whole joint becomes one piece of plastic (Plexi-Glass). This is a commercial grade of Weld-On acrylic cement used primarily in acrylic tank production. I don't know if it's available in hardware stores, but it might be worth looking for if it's really needed. There's a Weld-On #3 acrylic cement also, but it's faster acting (doesn't allow much time in assembling) and can cause blushing in humid conditions -- "blushing" meaning that it can leave white opaque coloring at the joints if the humidity in the air is high. For that reason, it's not often used by aquarium manufacturers. There's also a Weld-On #16, which is even stronger the Weld-On #4 and which is thicker -- like Super-Glue's Gel cement. I think this is available in Home Depot and Lowes -- but it probably costs at least #5.99 or so, which is why I didn't mention it as this strength isn't needed for D & G's project. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > My acrylic tank was 'chemically bonded' I never really though about it > before but I guess that means it was glued with cyanoacrylate cement? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 29 February 2012 07:55, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Cyanoacrylate cement (instant/super glue) is non-toxic to fish and plants > > after it sets up. While aquarium silicone sealant might be the first choice > > one might think of to use, it doesn't hold well on Plexi-Glass, just as it > > doesn't hold well on Acrylic aquariums ("PlexiGlass" is a trademark of > > Acrylic -- it's the same hard plastic). If silicone sealant held well on > > bonding panels of Acrylic tanks together, aquarium manufacturers would use > > this to build these tanks -- but they don't, because it doesn't. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "D and g" <ford_rocks@> wrote: > > > > > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant > > tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to > > the fish and plants > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53287	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?

Hi Nora, We'll see what John replies with to his answer to you, especially with what types of toxins he refers to as concerned with his fish producing, although I suspect he means nitrate. In the meantime, and getting right to the gist of your question, I don't believe that activated carbon is discriminatory in specifically absorbing only certain impurities but takes in any that come in contact with it. If it's suspected that one has any types of certain impurities in their water, then using carbon would be beneficial under these conditions -- or if tested for certain toxins that come up positive then carbon can surely be useful. There are many materials in our TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) that the aquarium hobby has no test kits available for, and if anything other than what we know our water to contain is suspected to be present, perhaps from just the "different" (from normal) way our fish are behaving and/or eating, then again carbon might be of use here. Carbon will absorb nitrate, which has always been the hobby industry's main object in offering it to us, especially for the beginner hobbyist, as it reduces this toxin. BUT, as we generally change out the recommended 25% to 33% of the aquarium water each week (or at least, we should) as part of the regular maintenance of the tank, we're constantly physically removing the nitrate with these PWC's even more efficiently than the carbon would be doing it -- so there's really no further need for carbon unless other toxins are building up faster than they can be removed (or there are toxins being introduced to the tank from the tap water -- besides chloramine, which we have conditioners for). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > that is interesting! It brings me to the question: do you or anybody knows what type of toxins are filtered out with the carbon filter? Some said one only needs it for medications while it seems in your caste with heavy waste production it has some more benefits? > > I have to look into canister filters (I know nothing about them :) > > Thanks, > Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > I use sausages made of pantyhose filled with carbon pellets in my filter. > > However, I would add that-they are replaced every 3 or 4 weeks & only use > > them because I have such a high volume of toxins constantly in my system > > despite 25% daily water changes. This is due to being seriously overstocked > > with 4 large streamlined Goldfish in a 120 gallon tank but cannot upgrade > > as I live in a small flat so no more space. > > > > In your case I would not recommend using carbon at all unless you had some > > toxicity in your water. Because your present filter seems very inflexible > > with regard to media changes you might want to look into getting a > > completely new filtration system-perhaps a small canister. Being outside of > > the tank a canister would also increase slightly the amount of gallonage > > in your tank. > > > > John. > > > > On 28 February 2012 22:22, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > thanks for your input! > > > yes, I agree with the problems of exchanging the carbon filter so often. > > > That was in principle the reason for my search for additional bio filter > > > options...I probably should explain the details a little better: > > > > > > The setup that came with the 10G tank is a power filter with 2 cartridge > > > inserts: the carbon filter pad that is blue in the size of my hand approx. > > > and maybe 5 mm thick (firmly attached to a plastic grid that forms the > > > cartridge), and a second insert (back to back with the carbon filter) a bio > > > filter, that is in principle only a coarse mash maybe half or 2/3 the size > > > of the carbon filter. > > > > > > I noticed that with each exchange of the carbon filter (I never touched > > > the bio filter) the water quality suffered and I assumed that I loose to > > > many beneficial bacteria. That was the reason for all my questions recently > > > about carbon filter, sponges etc. > > > > > > The carbon filter is only a pad and the active carbon must be hidden as > > > microscopic particles in the blue pad. So I had the problem that I cannot > > > just exchange the carbon and leave a mesh there.... > > > I tried rinsing the carbon cartridge in aquarium water as soon as it > > > became cloaked but I did not manage to get it clean enough to ensure water > > > throughput again. So I only could exchange it each time that happens. It > > > happens so often I think because I regularly scrape of some brown algae > > > form the glass that my fish love to eat. > > > > > > There is not enough space next to the carbon cartridge to add another > > > filter medium and if I replace it completely with a sponge I was afraid I > > > might leave openings where the water runs through unfiltered (would that > > > matter?). > > > > > > So as first solution now I squeezed an additional spongelike material > > > (actually an exchange filter for some other system that I cut into the > > > right size) next to the biofilter to increase the surface for colonization > > > and hope that a carbon pad exchange has less impact then... > > > > > > Whenever I exchanged the carbon pad in the past I could add some > > > TetraSafeStart bacteria (almost the whole bottle) and brought back the good > > > water quality within 1-2 days. But it is fairly expensive and I would love > > > to find a better solution. I will see in a few weeks if the additional > > > sponge will help (I soaked it with bacteria). Any additional ideas are very > > > welcome! I do not know why the original setup included a much larger carbon > > > filter than a big bio filter... > > > > > > I read someone else fills a mesh with carbon pellets? Those seem easier to > > > clean or maybe I should just exchange the whole cartridge with a sponge and > > > do not worry about open spots for the water? > > > > > > Thanks a lot, > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53288	From: Ray	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Yes, but this is only half of the story. You left out that, when buying GE Silicone Sealant in the larger ("regular"?) blue colored cartridge/tube, that it MUST be labled for Window & Door use -- NOT for Bathroom, or Kitchen or any similar use that needs to be guarded against mildew and mold as these latter sealants have toxins in them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, k chen <kchen5@...> wrote: > > > you can find silicon sealant sold in fish shop which is suitable for fishing keeping use. If you need more, GE makes a regular packaging, ie cheaper, silicon sealant which is sold in blue color tube. > Karl > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: sevenspringss@... > Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:55:54 +0000 > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all i am in need of advise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cyanoacrylate cement (instant/super glue) is non-toxic to fish and plants after it sets up. While aquarium silicone sealant might be the first choice one might think of to use, it doesn't hold well on Plexi-Glass, just as it doesn't hold well on Acrylic aquariums ("PlexiGlass" is a trademark of Acrylic -- it's the same hard plastic). If silicone sealant held well on bonding panels of Acrylic tanks together, aquarium manufacturers would use this to build these tanks -- but they don't, because it doesn't. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "D and g" <ford_rocks@> wrote: > > > > > > i am working on seting up a Fish Tank Ecosystem i am bilding the plant tray out of plexey glass what tipe of glue will work that is not toxek to the fish and plants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53289	From: joe t	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Hello Karl: Have you used the GE silicone with the blue tube? If you have, why and how long ago? I am asking because I don't use any silicone that is not marked "suitable for aquariums". I am curious if you have had any problems with your fish after you used it. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53290	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish

My black ghost knife, Stevie, is currently 10" (from 3" new less than 2 yrs ago)- he eats whatever the others eat - cichlid pellets (small), flakes, freeze dried tubifex worms, algae discs and fresh zucchini. My last black ghost lived about 13 yrs and he ate only flakes and tubifex. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi > > Would like to know from those who have large black ghost, what you would feed a 12" black ghost knife.  > > Thanks > Siva > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53291	From: D and g F	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

i have not yet tryed any becose i do not whant to contamanat my tank ________________________________ From: joe t <jett07002@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 10:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all i am in need of advise   Hello Karl: Have you used the GE silicone with the blue tube? If you have, why and how long ago? I am asking because I don't use any silicone that is not marked "suitable for aquariums". I am curious if you have had any problems with your fish after you used it. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53292	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 3/1/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish

Forgot to mention - my black ghost knife also likes shrimp pellets. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, LJFUQUA@... wrote: > > My black ghost knife, Stevie, is currently 10" (from 3" new less than 2 yrs ago)- he eats whatever the others eat - cichlid pellets (small), flakes, freeze dried tubifex worms, algae discs and fresh zucchini. My last black ghost lived about 13 yrs and he ate only flakes and tubifex. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > Would like to know from those who have large black ghost, what you would feed a 12" black ghost knife.  > > > > Thanks > > Siva > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53293	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish

Thank you. Sounds interesting. People had written in different forums that they feed beefheart and live feeds like fish, snails etc. I do not feed my guys(have 2 BGK in a 180G, 6ft, along with few other larger fellows) live feeds, fearing parasites etc that can get into BGK's system, i have been feeding him hikari carnisticks, as he stopped showing interest to eat freeze-dried shrimps and freeze-dried bloodworms. Since last week, bit worried as he started to reject the sticks, but guess it should be water quality issues due to filters not being able to pickup larger droppings and filters themselves needing cleaning. Will update the group further, post cleaning i see things improving slowly.  Others with different experience kindly do share please.  ________________________________ From: "LJFUQUA@..." <LJFUQUA@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 2 March 2012 12:17 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Black Ghost Knife Fish   Forgot to mention - my black ghost knife also likes shrimp pellets. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, LJFUQUA@... wrote: > > My black ghost knife, Stevie, is currently 10" (from 3" new less than 2 yrs ago)- he eats whatever the others eat - cichlid pellets (small), flakes, freeze dried tubifex worms, algae discs and fresh zucchini. My last black ghost lived about 13 yrs and he ate only flakes and tubifex. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > Would like to know from those who have large black ghost, what you would feed a 12" black ghost knife.  > > > > Thanks > > Siva > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53294	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Snail question

Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will it hurt them? I can't really find much info. Thanks Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53295	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

There is no need to use a product to control nitrates or nitrites, so why risk your inverts? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 5:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Snail question Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will it hurt them? I can't really find much info. Thanks Tara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53296	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

Hi Tara, Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. Adding chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up your tank & bio filter. John*<o)))< * On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will it > hurt them? > > I can't really find much info. > > Thanks > Tara > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53297	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?

Hi Ray, I do a 25% water change daily on my 120 UK gallon system & still I am struggling to keep my nitrate below 40 as I have 4 large streamlined Goldfish. According to the instructions with the Polyfilter if it turns dark brown [which mine does] it says this is 'Organic Wastes' so I guess it could well be nitrate although I don't overfeed them-just too small a system for the amount & size of fish I have but I cannot upgrade my 8 foot tank any further as I live in a small flat so weight & size are already at my maximum. On a general note I hope anyone planning a streamlined Goldfish tank will take note of my situation-these fish need vast amounts of water & are totally unsuitable for indoors unless you have a swimming pool handy! John*<o)))< * On 1 March 2012 11:49, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Nora, > > We'll see what John replies with to his answer to you, especially with > what types of toxins he refers to as concerned with his fish producing, > although I suspect he means nitrate. In the meantime, and getting right to > the gist of your question, I don't believe that activated carbon is > discriminatory in specifically absorbing only certain impurities but takes > in any that come in contact with it. If it's suspected that one has any > types of certain impurities in their water, then using carbon would be > beneficial under these conditions -- or if tested for certain toxins that > come up positive then carbon can surely be useful. > > There are many materials in our TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) that the > aquarium hobby has no test kits available for, and if anything other than > what we know our water to contain is suspected to be present, perhaps from > just the "different" (from normal) way our fish are behaving and/or eating, > then again carbon might be of use here. Carbon will absorb nitrate, which > has always been the hobby industry's main object in offering it to us, > especially for the beginner hobbyist, as it reduces this toxin. BUT, as we > generally change out the recommended 25% to 33% of the aquarium water each > week (or at least, we should) as part of the regular maintenance of the > tank, we're constantly physically removing the nitrate with these PWC's > even more efficiently than the carbon would be doing it -- so there's > really no further need for carbon unless other toxins are building up > faster than they can be removed (or there are toxins being introduced to > the tank from the tap water -- besides chloramine, which we have > conditioners for). > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53298	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. Thanks Tara On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > Hi Tara, > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. Adding > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up your > tank & bio filter. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will it > > hurt them? > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > Thanks > > Tara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53299	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

The best thing to do is cycle the tank (grow beneficial bacteria) using ammonia before you add the fish so that the toxins like nitrite cannot hurt the fish. Do you have another established tank? If yes, you can use a filter or filter media from the established tank to provide bacteria for the new tank. The beneficial bacteria eat the nitrites and ammonia. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail question Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. Thanks Tara On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > wrote: > Hi Tara, > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. Adding > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up your > tank & bio filter. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will it > > hurt them? > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > Thanks > > Tara > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53300	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

Hi Tara, You need to be doing partial water changes regularly as part of your maintenance schedule or your nitrate will get out of control & over time chronic nitrate will hurt the fish & other organisms. I would suggest approx 30% weekly using same temperature treated water, after a few weeks start to rinse out the filter sponges in the old tank water each time you do a water change. You want to be removing all the loose debris that the filter picks up because this is what is raising your nitrate & by doing the water changes you are constantly diluting the amount of potentially harmful nitrate in your tank but you will need to test your water regularly to determine exactly how often & how much water you should be changing. What are your test results? John*<o)))<* On 3 March 2012 13:20, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a > partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites > & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember > what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a > few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. > > Thanks > Tara > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53301	From: k chen	Date: 3/3/2012
Subject: Re: hi all i am in need of advise

Hi Joe, Yes, I have. I did not repair on the second hand tank that I obtained. I cam across the info on a web blog. It is way cheaper than the one sold in fish shop but is bigger in size and need more handling when applying it. It wont be marked suitable for aquarium use, since its main market is for home improvement. No problem, use it to keep dungeness crabs which are way more sensitive than fishes. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: jett07002@... Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 16:10:56 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all i am in need of advise Hello Karl: Have you used the GE silicone with the blue tube? If you have, why and how long ago? I am asking because I don't use any silicone that is not marked "suitable for aquariums". I am curious if you have had any problems with your fish after you used it. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53302	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use my wa

Hello I have called to talk to several people at a couple diffrent pet stores and a majority have told me it is ok to use my water softner to fill my tank but the last girl I spoke with said I need to by pass the water softner. We have very very hard rusty water.We are a very small country town and we have well water not city water. We use mortians rust buster softner salt. I was told to use aqurium salt,stress coat and stress zime. Wednesday I am looking at paying my tank off and want to start putting water in it.I am planning on getting neon tetras,micky mouse platties pinanple sord tails some algie eaters that stay small and maybe a few other types of fish I am just not sure of what kind yet that would be neat to add to the assortment. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53303	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/4/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m

I would bypass the water softener. I do not keep the fish you name, but as I reall, neons want softer water and platties/sword tails want harder water. So I am not sure what kind of water you need to keep the fish in, but maybe the hard water would be a good thing. Did you test the water as it comes from the well and without going through the water softener? What is the pH and KH? What are the pH and KH requirements of your fish? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of northernlace1979 Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 4:31 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use my water softner? Hello I have called to talk to several people at a couple diffrent pet stores and a majority have told me it is ok to use my water softner to fill my tank but the last girl I spoke with said I need to by pass the water softner. We have very very hard rusty water.We are a very small country town and we have well water not city water. We use mortians rust buster softner salt. I was told to use aqurium salt,stress coat and stress zime. Wednesday I am looking at paying my tank off and want to start putting water in it.I am planning on getting neon tetras,micky mouse platties pinanple sord tails some algie eaters that stay small and maybe a few other types of fish I am just not sure of what kind yet that would be neat to add to the assortment. Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53304	From: Cee Jaye	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

Ok i see. How long does it take for beneficial bacteria to grow? No, i dont have another est tank right now. When i set up my larger tank, do i just cycle it with water? With the filter & all running? Thank you for the help! Tara On Mar 3, 2012 8:50 AM, "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> wrote: > The best thing to do is cycle the tank (grow beneficial bacteria) using > ammonia before you add the fish so that the toxins like nitrite cannot hurt > the fish. > > > > Do you have another established tank? If yes, you can use a filter or > filter media from the established tank to provide bacteria for the new > tank. > > > > The beneficial bacteria eat the nitrites and ammonia. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail question > > > > > > Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a > partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites > & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember > what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a > few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. > > Thanks > Tara > On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@... > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Tara, > > > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. > Adding > > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up > your > > tank & bio filter. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... > <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will > it > > > hurt them? > > > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53305	From: Ray	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m

Hello WHO? (please sign your posts), It's not okay to fill your tank with water from your water softener as it works on the principle of ion-exchange. For every ion of calcium or magnesium salts taken out of your hard water, it will replace it with sodium ions (as sodium chloride -- table salt). As youj state your water is extremely (very very) hard, your water softener would be giving you large amounts of salt. The last girl you spoke to was quite correct. You may need to install a small in-line (under-sink type) water filter if you have a real rust problem, at least between the water softener by-pass and your tank. Many freshwater fishes do not tolerate salt well. This would include the Neon Tetras (or any Tetras) you plan to add. Catfish don't like salt either, in case you're planning on any of them. Along these same lines, there's no need to use aquarium salt -- and as you can see by this, many fishes just don't like it anyhow. Depending on how much salt the water softener will add to your water, it may be fine for those Livebearers you want to add, but I don't know what other fishes you have in mind to add. One rule in aquarium maintenance that should be observed whenever possible, is to not add chemicals, as fish prefer water free of them and will only do their absolute best in chemical-free water. There are no chemicals found in their natural environment where they evolved, so they haven't existed up to this point in time with having to tolerate them. The more chemicals you can keep out of the tank, the better they'll prosper, as fish always prefer clean water ("clean" in this context meaning free from any chemicals), as in pristine. There are many additives on the market which the manufacturers and the stores will have you buy, but most of them are unnecessary. Stress Coat has additives in it that promotes a heavier body slime. As fish naturally promote body slime anyway, in a proportion that has enabled them to be protected from their environment over the eons, there's no need to induce them to secrete more. Stress Zyme is another gimmick by manufacturers to get you to buy more product. It's supposedly intended to help you start your nitrogen cycle, but as it can't maintain live nitrocycling bacteria as bottled -- because this bottled additive contain little to no oxygen, which is needed by these aerobic bacteria -- any bacteria it may contain is not going to directly start your cycle. It may contain anaerobic bacteria, which will act to first rot (putrefy) any excess fish foods or other organic matter -- which may take several weeks before this results in any organic waste material being available for nitrifying bacteria to first begin to feed on; and they (the nitrifying bacteria) can do this without the anaerobic bacteria in Stress Zyme. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "northernlace1979" <northernlace1979@...> wrote: > > Hello > I have called to talk to several people at a couple different pet stores and a majority have told me it is ok to use my water softner to fill my tank but the last girl I spoke with said I need to by pass the water softener. We have very very hard rusty water.We are a very small country town and we have well water not city water. We use mortens rust buster softener salt. I was told to use aquarium salt, stress coat and stress zyme. > Wednesday I am looking at paying my tank off and want to start putting water in it. I am planning on getting neon tetras, mickey mouse platies pineapple swordtails some algae eaters that stay small and maybe a few other types of fish I am just not sure of what kind yet that would be neat to add to the assortment. > Thanks >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53306	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

About six weeks IME. When you get your larger tank, you can transfer the established filter from your current tank to the bigger tank. If you don’t have an established filter, you use ammonia (plain ammonia from the grocery store) before you add any fish. Many LFS sell bottled nitrifiers (beneficial bacteria) that you can buy and add to the tank it will help. You may need to do daily water changes to keep the toxins low enough for the fish to live, but if you use the bottled stuff, follow the directions regarding water changes. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cee Jaye Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snail question Ok i see. How long does it take for beneficial bacteria to grow? No, i dont have another est tank right now. When i set up my larger tank, do i just cycle it with water? With the filter & all running? Thank you for the help! Tara On Mar 3, 2012 8:50 AM, "Donna Ransome" <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > The best thing to do is cycle the tank (grow beneficial bacteria) using > ammonia before you add the fish so that the toxins like nitrite cannot hurt > the fish. > > > > Do you have another established tank? If yes, you can use a filter or > filter media from the established tank to provide bacteria for the new > tank. > > > > The beneficial bacteria eat the nitrites and ammonia. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:20 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail question > > > > > > Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a > partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites > & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember > what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a > few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. > > Thanks > Tara > On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > wrote: > > > Hi Tara, > > > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. > Adding > > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up > your > > tank & bio filter. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will > it > > > hurt them? > > > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53307	From: William M	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question

These bottled nitrifiers (beneficial bacteria) that you can buy can be good if used when "fresh" but if they have been on the shelves for any lingth of time, the bacteris will start to die and not be good. If you can get some of the stores bacteria from their filters or gravel form the tanks (this will have good bacteris growing on it) and can be used to get the good bacteria growing and cycling the tank. I would then start using plain ammonia (no additives in it) to get these bacteria to grow enough to cycle the tank. Use enough ammonia to get a reading of between 3 and 4 parts per million of ammonia. Check each day and add enough to get it back to the 3 to 4 PPM (parts per million). When it is down to zero after a day, the nitrites will start going up so keep adding ammonia until the nitrite goes down to zero over night. The tank will be cycled then. You will want to do a large water change to get rid of the nitrate that will be there before you put any fish in but this will keep you from loosing fish needlessly by subjecting them to undue amounts of ammonia and nitrites. William Maier AKA Lame Bull --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > About six weeks IME. > > > > When you get your larger tank, you can transfer the established filter from > your current tank to the bigger tank. > > > > If you don't have an established filter, you use ammonia (plain ammonia from > the grocery store) before you add any fish. > > > > Many LFS sell bottled nitrifiers (beneficial bacteria) that you can buy and > add to the tank it will help. > > > > You may need to do daily water changes to keep the toxins low enough for the > fish to live, but if you use the bottled stuff, follow the directions > regarding water changes.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53308	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?

wow, I never would have thought that a 125G tank can be too small for 4 fish (regarding water quality issues)... Thanks for giving us these details! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I do a 25% water change daily on my 120 UK gallon system & still I am > struggling to keep my nitrate below 40 as I have 4 large streamlined > Goldfish. According to the instructions with the Polyfilter if it turns > dark brown [which mine does] it says this is 'Organic Wastes' so I guess it > could well be nitrate although I don't overfeed them-just too small a > system for the amount & size of fish I have but I cannot upgrade my 8 foot > tank any further as I live in a small flat so weight & size are already at > my maximum. > > On a general note I hope anyone planning a streamlined Goldfish tank will > take note of my situation-these fish need vast amounts of water & are > totally unsuitable for indoors unless you have a swimming pool handy! > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 1 March 2012 11:49, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > We'll see what John replies with to his answer to you, especially with > > what types of toxins he refers to as concerned with his fish producing, > > although I suspect he means nitrate. In the meantime, and getting right to > > the gist of your question, I don't believe that activated carbon is > > discriminatory in specifically absorbing only certain impurities but takes > > in any that come in contact with it. If it's suspected that one has any > > types of certain impurities in their water, then using carbon would be > > beneficial under these conditions -- or if tested for certain toxins that > > come up positive then carbon can surely be useful. > > > > There are many materials in our TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) that the > > aquarium hobby has no test kits available for, and if anything other than > > what we know our water to contain is suspected to be present, perhaps from > > just the "different" (from normal) way our fish are behaving and/or eating, > > then again carbon might be of use here. Carbon will absorb nitrate, which > > has always been the hobby industry's main object in offering it to us, > > especially for the beginner hobbyist, as it reduces this toxin. BUT, as we > > generally change out the recommended 25% to 33% of the aquarium water each > > week (or at least, we should) as part of the regular maintenance of the > > tank, we're constantly physically removing the nitrate with these PWC's > > even more efficiently than the carbon would be doing it -- so there's > > really no further need for carbon unless other toxins are building up > > faster than they can be removed (or there are toxins being introduced to > > the tank from the tap water -- besides chloramine, which we have > > conditioners for). > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53309	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question - cycling a tank

Hi, I was in a similar situation like you (cycling a tank with fish in it) and I describe below what I did. Ray recently posted a guideline of how to cycle a tank with ammonia and without fish in it, I copy the main part of his message below for your larger tank later. I am following his instructions right now for a rather new 10G tank and it seems very easy. My older tank I cycled with a few fish in it and it was much more work intensive to keep toxins down and to succeed to end with a cycled tank. What I did and how it worked: lots and lots of partial water changes to keep ammonia in the beginning and later nitrite down to an "acceptable" level for cycling. That means daily water tests with a liquid test kit and at certain times at least daily partial water changes. Additional I added a detoxifying substance (Prime from Sachem that is supposed to make the ammonia non toxic but leaves it digestible for the forming bacteria, probably it also helps with the nitrite later). In addition I added bacteria from TetraSafeStart that were effective to shorten everything and still help me if I get into trouble for various reasons. I read somewhere else that the most effective product for bacteria is supposed to be Dr.Tim's best and only (or so...) that is stored in a fridge, but sometimes hard to get. I do not have snails in the tank but can recommend to keep asking here :) Good luck and below part of Ray's message about "ammonia induced" cycling. Nora (part of Ray's message:) Cycling a tank without fish in it is easy to do just by adding "drops of ammonia," just as you mentioned. These ammonia "drops" that you talked about are just that -- drops of liquid household ammonia from a bottle. You need to use plain clear ammonia though, not sudsy ammonia; I think it's bottled as 10% ammonia. You need to maintain a 4.0 to 5.0 ppm level of ammonia in your fish-free aquarium during cycling. This is done by adding 3 to 5 drops of household ammonia. As each day passes, you'll need to add additional drops of ammonia to keep the level of it at between 4.0 and 5.0 ppm. Near the end of 10 to 12 days, you'll find that you may need to add less ammonia to keep the level at 4.0 -- 5.0 ppm, as it will be spiking at this time, but it should be allowed to spike as part of starting off the nitrite-consuming bacteria (there are two general and separate types of nitrifying bacteria used in the aquarium, those that first convert ammonia into nitrite, and those that then convert nitrite into nitrate as the second step in the cycle. From there on in, the ammonia will slowly drop -- unless you add enough more ammonia to keep the level up, which you'll need to do as you'll now need to start feeding the bacteria that converts the nitrite to nitrate. The nitrite level will spike at between 20 and 24 days into the cycle, then slowly start to taper off. When the ammonia and the nitrite levels remain at 0.0. ppm the following days that you're still adding 3 to 5 drops of ammonia each day, then you know that your nitrifying bacteria has become fully established as they'll be consuming every drop of ammonia you're adding at this time. At this time, you'll need to make some water changes before adding fish, as you'll need to get the nitrate level down. Needless to say, you need to make frequent use of your test kits to follow the cycle's progress. It's quite simple, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask. (end of Ray's instructions) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@...> wrote: > > Ok i see. How long does it take for beneficial bacteria to grow? No, i dont > have another est tank right now. > > When i set up my larger tank, do i just cycle it with water? With the > filter & all running? > > Thank you for the help! > Tara > On Mar 3, 2012 8:50 AM, "Donna Ransome" <djransome@...> wrote: > > > The best thing to do is cycle the tank (grow beneficial bacteria) using > > ammonia before you add the fish so that the toxins like nitrite cannot hurt > > the fish. > > > > > > > > Do you have another established tank? If yes, you can use a filter or > > filter media from the established tank to provide bacteria for the new > > tank. > > > > > > > > The beneficial bacteria eat the nitrites and ammonia. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:20 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail question > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a > > partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites > > & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember > > what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a > > few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. > > > > Thanks > > Tara > > On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@... > > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Tara, > > > > > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > > > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > > > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > > > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. > > Adding > > > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up > > your > > > tank & bio filter. > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > * > > > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@... > > <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will > > it > > > > hurt them? > > > > > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Tara > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > > to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53310	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: CHEMIPURE VS CARBON - benefits of carbon filter?

Hi Nora, No, neither would I when I started out! This is the tragedy of Goldfish & particularly the streamlined types-because they are cheap & plentiful they are used by the more unscrupulous aquatic outlets as 'starter' fish in bowls to get us interested in marine life but this is a complete misnomer. In reality Goldfish are quite difficult to keep properly & make a good deal more waste pound-for-pound than many other fish [I have heard 3 times the amount of waste but cannot confirm this] but the results speak for themselves, even 120 gallons cannot dilute it enough to lower the NO3 below 40. Even worse is the amount of these fish given away as prizes almost always to recipients who have no more idea how to look after them than I have about nuclear fusion! These poor creatures are also raised & sold in terrible conditions as food for other aquatic animals-'Feeders' Such an injustice to these gentle, intelligent & potentially very long lived animals. Ok-that's my soapbox speech over for the day but if I can save this happening to just one fish by my post then it has been well worth it-streamlined Goldfish belong in big ponds! John*<o)))<* On 5 March 2012 19:13, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > wow, I never would have thought that a 125G tank can be too small for 4 > fish (regarding water quality issues)... > > Thanks for giving us these details! > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53311	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/5/2012
Subject: Re: Snail question - cycling a tank

Hi again, I just wanted to add, the 3-5 drops ammonia for cycling (in the message below) are meant per gallon. Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was in a similar situation like you (cycling a tank with fish in it) and I describe below what I did. > > Ray recently posted a guideline of how to cycle a tank with ammonia and without fish in it, I copy the main part of his message below for your larger tank later. I am following his instructions right now for a rather new 10G tank and it seems very easy. > > My older tank I cycled with a few fish in it and it was much more work intensive to keep toxins down and to succeed to end with a cycled tank. What I did and how it worked: lots and lots of partial water changes to keep ammonia in the beginning and later nitrite down to an "acceptable" level for cycling. That means daily water tests with a liquid test kit and at certain times at least daily partial water changes. Additional I added a detoxifying substance (Prime from Sachem that is supposed to make the ammonia non toxic but leaves it digestible for the forming bacteria, probably it also helps with the nitrite later). In addition I added bacteria from TetraSafeStart that were effective to shorten everything and still help me if I get into trouble for various reasons. I read somewhere else that the most effective product for bacteria is supposed to be Dr.Tim's best and only (or so...) that is stored in a fridge, but sometimes hard to get. > I do not have snails in the tank but can recommend to keep asking here :) > > Good luck and below part of Ray's message about "ammonia induced" cycling. > Nora > > (part of Ray's message:) > Cycling a tank without fish in it is easy to do just by adding "drops of > ammonia," just as you mentioned. These ammonia "drops" that you talked about > are just that -- drops of liquid household ammonia from a bottle. You need to > use plain clear ammonia though, not sudsy ammonia; I think it's bottled as 10% > ammonia. You need to maintain a 4.0 to 5.0 ppm level of ammonia in your > fish-free aquarium during cycling. This is done by adding 3 to 5 drops of > household ammonia. As each day passes, you'll need to add additional drops of > ammonia to keep the level of it at between 4.0 and 5.0 ppm. Near the end of 10 > to 12 days, you'll find that you may need to add less ammonia to keep the level > at 4.0 -- 5.0 ppm, as it will be spiking at this time, but it should be allowed > to spike as part of starting off the nitrite-consuming bacteria (there are two > general and separate types of nitrifying bacteria used in the aquarium, those > that first convert ammonia into nitrite, and those that then convert nitrite > into nitrate as the second step in the cycle. > > From there on in, the ammonia will slowly drop -- unless you add enough more > ammonia to keep the level up, which you'll need to do as you'll now need to > start feeding the bacteria that converts the nitrite to nitrate. The nitrite > level will spike at between 20 and 24 days into the cycle, then slowly start to > taper off. When the ammonia and the nitrite levels remain at 0.0. ppm the > following days that you're still adding 3 to 5 drops of ammonia each day, then > you know that your nitrifying bacteria has become fully established as they'll > be consuming every drop of ammonia you're adding at this time. At this time, > you'll need to make some water changes before adding fish, as you'll need to get > the nitrate level down. Needless to say, you need to make frequent use of your > test kits to follow the cycle's progress. It's quite simple, but if you have > any further questions, feel free to ask. > > (end of Ray's instructions) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@> wrote: > > > > Ok i see. How long does it take for beneficial bacteria to grow? No, i dont > > have another est tank right now. > > > > When i set up my larger tank, do i just cycle it with water? With the > > filter & all running? > > > > Thank you for the help! > > Tara > > On Mar 3, 2012 8:50 AM, "Donna Ransome" <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > The best thing to do is cycle the tank (grow beneficial bacteria) using > > > ammonia before you add the fish so that the toxins like nitrite cannot hurt > > > the fish. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have another established tank? If yes, you can use a filter or > > > filter media from the established tank to provide bacteria for the new > > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > The beneficial bacteria eat the nitrites and ammonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Cee Jaye > > > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:20 AM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone. My tank is fairly new about a month or so. I will do a > > > partial water change. I remember awhile back someone talking about nitrites > > > & such being high a few weeks after adding fish. I just couldnt remember > > > what I should do about it. I have a 20 gal with 4 guppies a few snails & a > > > few shrimp. I have a larger tank im looking for a stand for to set up. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Tara > > > On Mar 2, 2012 9:11 PM, "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@ > > > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Tara, > > > > > > > > Can you tell us a little more about your system please, how long has it > > > > been running, what other creatures you have in there & what size it is. > > > > Ordinarily if the tank is cycled you should have zero nitrite & regular > > > > partial water changes should take care of the nitrate & keep it low. > > > Adding > > > > chemicals &/or 'quick fix' cures for stuff like that will only mess up > > > your > > > > tank & bio filter. > > > > > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > > > > > * > > > > On 2 March 2012 22:48, Cee Jaye <CeeJayee@ > > > <mailto:CeeJayee%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi. I have snails in my aquarium. (Mystery snails & rabbit snails). Im > > > > > wondering if i use aquarium products (like for nitrates/nitrites) will > > > it > > > > > hurt them? > > > > > > > > > > I can't really find much info. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Tara > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > > You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > > > to > > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > > you > > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > > the > > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which > > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53312	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use

Hello I cant afford to use reverse asmosses water and if i dont use my water softner i will have brown water. How can i avoid this? I dont want to think of getting my money back and not having the fish tank. Thanks Kacie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53313	From: northernlace1979	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m

Hello I cant aford RO water and if i dont use the softner i will have brown water. How can i avoid this.I dont want to think about getting my money back and not having the tank at all. Thanks Kacie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello WHO? (please sign your posts), > > It's not okay to fill your tank with water from your water softener as it works on the principle of ion-exchange. For every ion of calcium or magnesium salts taken out of your hard water, it will replace it with sodium ions (as sodium chloride -- table salt). As youj state your water is extremely (very very) hard, your water softener would be giving you large amounts of salt. The last girl you spoke to was quite correct. You may need to install a small in-line (under-sink type) water filter if you have a real rust problem, at least between the water softener by-pass and your tank. > > Many freshwater fishes do not tolerate salt well. This would include the Neon Tetras (or any Tetras) you plan to add. Catfish don't like salt either, in case you're planning on any of them. Along these same lines, there's no need to use aquarium salt -- and as you can see by this, many fishes just don't like it anyhow. Depending on how much salt the water softener will add to your water, it may be fine for those Livebearers you want to add, but I don't know what other fishes you have in mind to add. > > One rule in aquarium maintenance that should be observed whenever possible, is to not add chemicals, as fish prefer water free of them and will only do their absolute best in chemical-free water. There are no chemicals found in their natural environment where they evolved, so they haven't existed up to this point in time with having to tolerate them. The more chemicals you can keep out of the tank, the better they'll prosper, as fish always prefer clean water ("clean" in this context meaning free from any chemicals), as in pristine. There are many additives on the market which the manufacturers and the stores will have you buy, but most of them are unnecessary. Stress Coat has additives in it that promotes a heavier body slime. As fish naturally promote body slime anyway, in a proportion that has enabled them to be protected from their environment over the eons, there's no need to induce them to secrete more. > > Stress Zyme is another gimmick by manufacturers to get you to buy more product. It's supposedly intended to help you start your nitrogen cycle, but as it can't maintain live nitrocycling bacteria as bottled -- because this bottled additive contain little to no oxygen, which is needed by these aerobic bacteria -- any bacteria it may contain is not going to directly start your cycle. It may contain anaerobic bacteria, which will act to first rot (putrefy) any excess fish foods or other organic matter -- which may take several weeks before this results in any organic waste material being available for nitrifying bacteria to first begin to feed on; and they (the nitrifying bacteria) can do this without the anaerobic bacteria in Stress Zyme. > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "northernlace1979" <northernlace1979@> wrote: > > > > Hello > > I have called to talk to several people at a couple different pet stores and a majority have told me it is ok to use my water softner to fill my tank but the last girl I spoke with said I need to by pass the water softener. We have very very hard rusty water.We are a very small country town and we have well water not city water. We use mortens rust buster softener salt. I was told to use aquarium salt, stress coat and stress zyme. > > Wednesday I am looking at paying my tank off and want to start putting water in it. I am planning on getting neon tetras, mickey mouse platies pineapple swordtails some algae eaters that stay small and maybe a few other types of fish I am just not sure of what kind yet that would be neat to add to the assortment. > > Thanks > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53314	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use

Your filter and some charcoal will take care of the brown water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of northernlace1979 Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use Hello I cant afford to use reverse asmosses water and if i dont use my water softner i will have brown water. How can i avoid this? I dont want to think of getting my money back and not having the fish tank. Thanks Kacie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53315	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Pond Advice for Kois

I know I wrote about this before, but I still have so many questions- I only remember reading two replies to my previous email about it, and one referred me to a koi website (Which, btw, Thanks Amber! It didn't quite have the info I was looking for though)I am sure there are other fish pond people out there that could give me some advice! My first question is how many gallons would be sufficient for three koi? I may add a few more but wanted to know the minimum requirement for the three I already have first. That way I at least know that I'm not going too small in the size. I was THINKING of going 3000 gallons. Not sure if that is a good size for the ones I alerady have and if I'd have roomto add a few more? Next, I am wondering how to figure out the dimensions for the pond once I know how many gallons I want it to be. I do know that I want it 3 feet deep. Thirdly, I am looking for recommendations on a good filter for koi and what to look for in the filters. I want to make sure I get a filter that will do the job it needs to do! Fourth, a good place to buy the liner and where it isn't too expensive, but a fair price. Then I need to figure out how big of a liner I will need to order once I know my pond dimensions. I will stop for now not to overwhelm and looking forward to getting some responses. Time is fastly approaching to get this project started and I want to be as prepared as possible- not to mention having the finances in order to do the project. We are getting a swimming pool put in our backyard (above ground) and will attach it to our existing back deck...but the koi pond will be between the original deck and the pool. So I'm going to have to see how much space we will need to leave for it before we get our pool and such. We thought of buying a 3 ft. swimming pool (like the kind you get at Walmart) to put the kois in but don't know how that would work out (my dad would put wood all around it and such to where you wouldn't even see the pool and there would be a sitting area next to the pond/koi pool). I would imagine there are several cons to doing it this way and if you have any input on that as well, please feelf ree to share! I will pass along any of that input to my dad- who would be doing the project! Thanks for any and all responses and I will try to respond more timely!! Life here gets so hectic that I don't often hae time to respond to my email like I'd like, but I do read every one. Oh and I am going to be setting up their temporary 140 gallon pond SOON. I think it was John who gave me advice to put the outside pond pump in the aquarium to get the good bacteria in it so the outside pond will be cycled for them when its time for them to be transferred. I plan to do this soon! I need to order a filter sponge and disconnect the pump outside first. I have more questions about that but I'll ask at another time. Thanks again! Desire', for the spoiled kois- Elle, Spooks, & Ginger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53316	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois - dimension calculation

Hi, I do not know about the Koi but here is some help for calculating the dimensions: If you assume you like 3000 G water volume for example and you want the pond 3 feet deep.... The equivalent of 1 cubic foot is 7.48 Gallon. That means 3000 G equals approx. 400 cubic feet. Divide this by the 3 feet for the depths and you receive approx. 133 square feet area for your pond. If you assume a square shape: 11.5 feet side length (= square root of the 133). If you like a round shape: 13 feet diameter (133 square feet divided by pi (pi=3.1415...) and the square root of the result gives you the radius, times 2 gives you the diameter) I hope this helps! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > I know I wrote about this before, but I still have so many questions- I only remember reading two replies to my previous email about it, and one referred me to a koi website (Which, btw, Thanks Amber! It didn't quite have the info I was looking for though)I am sure there are other fish pond people out there that could give me some advice! > > My first question is how many gallons would be sufficient for three koi? I may add a few more but wanted to know the minimum requirement for the three I already have first. That way I at least know that I'm not going too small in the size. I was THINKING of going 3000 gallons. Not sure if that is a good size for the ones I alerady have and if I'd have roomto add a few more? > > Next, I am wondering how to figure out the dimensions for the pond once I know how many gallons I want it to be. I do know that I want it 3 feet deep. > > Thirdly, I am looking for recommendations on a good filter for koi and what to look for in the filters. I want to make sure I get a filter that will do the job it needs to do! > > Fourth, a good place to buy the liner and where it isn't too expensive, but a fair price. Then I need to figure out how big of a liner I will need to order once I know my pond dimensions. > > I will stop for now not to overwhelm and looking forward to getting some responses. Time is fastly approaching to get this project started and I want to be as prepared as possible- not to mention having the finances in order to do the project. We are getting a swimming pool put in our backyard (above ground) and will attach it to our existing back deck...but the koi pond will be between the original deck and the pool. So I'm going to have to see how much space we will need to leave for it before we get our pool and such. > > We thought of buying a 3 ft. swimming pool (like the kind you get at Walmart) to put the kois in but don't know how that would work out (my dad would put wood all around it and such to where you wouldn't even see the pool and there would be a sitting area next to the pond/koi pool). I would imagine there are several cons to doing it this way and if you have any input on that as well, please feelf ree to share! I will pass along any of that input to my dad- who would be doing the project! > > Thanks for any and all responses and I will try to respond more timely!! Life here gets so hectic that I don't often hae time to respond to my email like I'd like, but I do read every one. > > Oh and I am going to be setting up their temporary 140 gallon pond SOON. I think it was John who gave me advice to put the outside pond pump in the aquarium to get the good bacteria in it so the outside pond will be cycled for them when its time for them to be transferred. I plan to do this soon! I need to order a filter sponge and disconnect the pump outside first. I have more questions about that but I'll ask at another time. > > Thanks again! > Desire', > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Spooks, & Ginger > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53317	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/6/2012
Subject: Another option for koi pond

Thought I'd create a seperate email for this question... I was reading at different places how an above ground pond is suitable only for a few fish and that koi prefer the ground? Other places talk about all the pros of having an above ground pond. What do you guys think of above ground ponds? The reason why I'm asking is because this is something I have been considering. I want it to attach to our back deck, but I want it a little higher since our back deck is about a foot or so from the ground but still to where we can easily see and watch the fish from our seats. I also don't want my dad to have to dig a massively large hole in the ground for a 3 feet pond. I was wondering if its possible for it be partially in the ground and the rest rasied? Hope would I go about this? Sorry for all the questions! I am obviously very new to this! Thanks for your patience with me. Desire' in LA Kois- Elle, Ginger, Spooks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53318	From: k chen	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use

Personally, reverse osmosis water is too clean for fish keeping. Regular tap water minus the chlorine and heavy metals will do. As for the brown water, charcoal will do but make sure you change it regularly otherwise once charcoal absorption is full, it will release the impurities back into the water. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: djransome@... Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:48:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] RE: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use Your filter and some charcoal will take care of the brown water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of northernlace1979 Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 5:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RE: My 125 gallon fish tank Water to use Hello I cant afford to use reverse asmosses water and if i dont use my water softner i will have brown water. How can i avoid this? I dont want to think of getting my money back and not having the fish tank. Thanks Kacie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53319	From: Ray	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Please Help! Setting up my 125 Gal fresh water tank. Can I use m

Hi Kacie, I don't think that R/O water is the way to go. I haven't seen anyone recommending it for you, and it's just not necessary. I understand your problem with having brown water if you by-pass your water softener, but Donna recommended a solution to it by using carbon in your filter. I don't know if you read my previous message thoroughly (it is a long one), but I mentioned that you may need a small in-line (under-sink type) water filter when by-passing your water softener. This would take care of rust and/or off-color brown water. They're available at Home Depot or Lowes, and if you're not familiar with them, they're a cartridge type filter having a hard plastic screw-on casing (about 10" or 12" high) inside of which is a replaceable filter cartridge. While they're primarily designed to be installed under the sink to supply better drinking water quality, they can be installed anywhere in your water system. There are several types of cartridges, from pleated ones that remove particulates to carbon ones which remove chemical impurites -- AND discoloration -- in the water. Some people use one or the other, while others use two, one in line with the other, with the one designed for removing actual particles of rust, etc., first in line. This would give you clear, color-free water before it even reaches your aquarium. Many thanks for signing, BTW; it's very much appreciated. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "northernlace1979" <northernlace1979@...> wrote: > > Hello > I cant aford RO water and if i dont use the softner i will have brown water. How can i avoid this.I dont want to think about getting my money back and not having the tank at all. > Thanks Kacie > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hello WHO? (please sign your posts), > > > > It's not okay to fill your tank with water from your water softener as it works on the principle of ion-exchange. For every ion of calcium or magnesium salts taken out of your hard water, it will replace it with sodium ions (as sodium chloride -- table salt). As youj state your water is extremely (very very) hard, your water softener would be giving you large amounts of salt. The last girl you spoke to was quite correct. You may need to install a small in-line (under-sink type) water filter if you have a real rust problem, at least between the water softener by-pass and your tank. > > > > Many freshwater fishes do not tolerate salt well. This would include the Neon Tetras (or any Tetras) you plan to add. Catfish don't like salt either, in case you're planning on any of them. Along these same lines, there's no need to use aquarium salt -- and as you can see by this, many fishes just don't like it anyhow. Depending on how much salt the water softener will add to your water, it may be fine for those Livebearers you want to add, but I don't know what other fishes you have in mind to add. > > > > One rule in aquarium maintenance that should be observed whenever possible, is to not add chemicals, as fish prefer water free of them and will only do their absolute best in chemical-free water. There are no chemicals found in their natural environment where they evolved, so they haven't existed up to this point in time with having to tolerate them. The more chemicals you can keep out of the tank, the better they'll prosper, as fish always prefer clean water ("clean" in this context meaning free from any chemicals), as in pristine. There are many additives on the market which the manufacturers and the stores will have you buy, but most of them are unnecessary. Stress Coat has additives in it that promotes a heavier body slime. As fish naturally promote body slime anyway, in a proportion that has enabled them to be protected from their environment over the eons, there's no need to induce them to secrete more. > > > > Stress Zyme is another gimmick by manufacturers to get you to buy more product. It's supposedly intended to help you start your nitrogen cycle, but as it can't maintain live nitrocycling bacteria as bottled -- because this bottled additive contain little to no oxygen, which is needed by these aerobic bacteria -- any bacteria it may contain is not going to directly start your cycle. It may contain anaerobic bacteria, which will act to first rot (putrefy) any excess fish foods or other organic matter -- which may take several weeks before this results in any organic waste material being available for nitrifying bacteria to first begin to feed on; and they (the nitrifying bacteria) can do this without the anaerobic bacteria in Stress Zyme. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "northernlace1979" <northernlace1979@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello > > > I have called to talk to several people at a couple different pet stores and a majority have told me it is ok to use my water softner to fill my tank but the last girl I spoke with said I need to by pass the water softener. We have very very hard rusty water.We are a very small country town and we have well water not city water. We use mortens rust buster softener salt. I was told to use aquarium salt, stress coat and stress zyme. > > > Wednesday I am looking at paying my tank off and want to start putting water in it. I am planning on getting neon tetras, mickey mouse platies pineapple swordtails some algae eaters that stay small and maybe a few other types of fish I am just not sure of what kind yet that would be neat to add to the assortment. > > > Thanks > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53320	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond

I will do my best to answer your questions but please forgive if I miss something from your other post. I am going to try to do it all in one for you. First of all, the materials you use for your pond, including the type of filter depends on what shape you wish it to be. There is a choice between soft liner and hard liners. Hard liners are preformed and bought already shaped, you just place them, support them, and fill them with water. Soft liners allow a lot more variation to shape of the pond, both diameter shape as well as allowing for shelving and "tiers" as it goes deeper, great places to line with plants and etc. which are beneficial to water quality and the fish for shelter purposes, too. The most common soft liner is roofing rubber and this can be purchased from a number of different places. There are various types of roofing rubber, different thicknesses, etc. Some pet stores (who deal with pond supplies) offer this for sale, garden centers often offer it, but probably the cheapest place to get it is from a roofing supply place. That is where I have always bought mine because of the difference in price. Using a regular store bought swimming pool means checking on the materials the pool is made of, including the thickness of the liner material. Swimming pools are not all created equal. To have a pond that is partially above ground and partially below ground you would want to dig a hole in the right shape/dimension so the pool or liner sits down as deep as you want the underground space to be and then build up the supports around the outer frame of that hole so the liner comes up to the height you decide to go. Koi can do just fine in an above ground pool. Check with your local building inspector because there are strict regulations that differ from city to city, state to state, in regards to ponds. Many places require it be entirely fenced in if it goes beyond a certain depth, but again, that differs from place to place. The only way to find out what is required in your area is to consult a building inspector. Some places also require a building permit for such a thing. Where I live, anything beyond 18 inches deep must be completely fenced in with a fence of at least 4 ft in height and I need a building permit to do it. That changes the price significantly. Here we also have a rule about how much of our property we are allowed to alter because at least 30% of our total property is required to remain "green" which refers to grass area. Filters... I have always preferred barrel filters as they are effective, easy to maintain, and come in enough different sizes to accommodate any size pond. They allow for the use of various types of media depending on what you prefer and need and are easily hidden with the construction and planting around the pond itself. Are you planning any kind of waterfall in your pond? There are filters that can help easily create such a thing and waterfalls themselves are great forms of filtration. There are so many options and methods for building ponds that it is almost endless. To cover everything in a few posts would be impossible. My best advice would be to browse online and take a look at photos of ponds (Google images is an easy way to do this.. just search "koi pond") and get a better feel for how you want it to look. Once you have a better idea of how you want it to look it will be much easier for someone to coach you through the needed supplies and steps in building it. You will also want to take out paper and pencil and sketch out a simple idea of shape and etc. to use as a building plan for yourself and your dad. Figuring out the size of a liner means first knowing the shape/area as well as depth, so there isn't anyone who can help you exactly with that until you know what shape you desire. There is a formula to follow when figuring out the amount of liner but I'm not remembering it off the top of my head. I will check with my husband tonight and get back to you for that. Sorry, it has been a long time since I've had to use that information for either my job or myself... but I will get it to you asap. Using a hard shell liner or a swimming pool would eliminate that need (its used for figuring out soft liner) but that would also limit the shape of your pond. That is a choice that only you can make. The pond we currently have is both underground and above ground and has not only pond plants around the back of it but also an herb garden around the front of it. I will try to get some photos in the next few wks as the weather allows. That might help you a bit. It isn't at its prettiest stage right now because we are still getting plenty of winter weather, so plants aren't all grown and pretty... but the photos might give you some ideas for the pond construction itself. We will be digging/building a larger one in the near future, but we can't afford it just yet, so that won't be of any help to you really. The new one will be very different and more "natural" using rocks instead of wood to frame it. I hope this helps and I'm sorry if I missed anything from your other post... and don't apologize for asking questions, that what this group is for. Ask all the questions you need! This is not something you want to guess at and need to be informed before you begin. There is nobody here who minds the extensive questions. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > Thought I'd create a seperate email for this question... > > I was reading at different places how an above ground pond is suitable only for a few fish and that koi prefer the ground? Other places talk about all the pros of having an above ground pond. What do you guys think of above ground ponds? > > The reason why I'm asking is because this is something I have been considering. I want it to attach to our back deck, but I want it a little higher since our back deck is about a foot or so from the ground but still to where we can easily see and watch the fish from our seats. I also don't want my dad to have to dig a massively large hole in the ground for a 3 feet pond. I was wondering if its possible for it be partially in the ground and the rest rasied? Hope would I go about this? > > Sorry for all the questions! I am obviously very new to this! Thanks for your patience with me. > > Desire' in LA > Kois- Elle, Ginger, Spooks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53321	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond

Hi Dawn, I'm absolutely amazed at the amount of bureaucratic hoops you have to jump through in the States to build ponds on your own land-I was convinced that we had the monopoly on interfering red tape here in the UK!! John*<o)))< * On 7 March 2012 21:32, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: > ** > > > I will do my best to answer your questions but please forgive if I miss > something from your other post. I am going to try to do it all in one for > you. > > First of all, the materials you use for your pond, including the type of > filter depends on what shape you wish it to be. There is a choice between > soft liner and hard liners. Hard liners are preformed and bought already > shaped, you just place them, support them, and fill them with water. Soft > liners allow a lot more variation to shape of the pond, both diameter shape > as well as allowing for shelving and "tiers" as it goes deeper, great > places to line with plants and etc. which are beneficial to water quality > and the fish for shelter purposes, too. The most common soft liner is > roofing rubber and this can be purchased from a number of different places. > There are various types of roofing rubber, different thicknesses, etc. Some > pet stores (who deal with pond supplies) offer this for sale, garden > centers often offer it, but probably the cheapest place to get it is from a > roofing supply place. That is where I have always bought mine because of > the difference in price. > > Using a regular store bought swimming pool means checking on the materials > the pool is made of, including the thickness of the liner material. > Swimming pools are not all created equal. > > To have a pond that is partially above ground and partially below ground > you would want to dig a hole in the right shape/dimension so the pool or > liner sits down as deep as you want the underground space to be and then > build up the supports around the outer frame of that hole so the liner > comes up to the height you decide to go. Koi can do just fine in an above > ground pool. Check with your local building inspector because there are > strict regulations that differ from city to city, state to state, in > regards to ponds. Many places require it be entirely fenced in if it goes > beyond a certain depth, but again, that differs from place to place. The > only way to find out what is required in your area is to consult a building > inspector. Some places also require a building permit for such a thing. > Where I live, anything beyond 18 inches deep must be completely fenced in > with a fence of at least 4 ft in height and I need a building permit to do > it. That changes the price significantly. Here we also have a rule about > how much of our property we are allowed to alter because at least 30% of > our total property is required to remain "green" which refers to grass area. > > Filters... I have always preferred barrel filters as they are effective, > easy to maintain, and come in enough different sizes to accommodate any > size pond. They allow for the use of various types of media depending on > what you prefer and need and are easily hidden with the construction and > planting around the pond itself. Are you planning any kind of waterfall in > your pond? There are filters that can help easily create such a thing and > waterfalls themselves are great forms of filtration. > > There are so many options and methods for building ponds that it is almost > endless. To cover everything in a few posts would be impossible. My best > advice would be to browse online and take a look at photos of ponds (Google > images is an easy way to do this.. just search "koi pond") and get a better > feel for how you want it to look. Once you have a better idea of how you > want it to look it will be much easier for someone to coach you through the > needed supplies and steps in building it. You will also want to take out > paper and pencil and sketch out a simple idea of shape and etc. to use as a > building plan for yourself and your dad. Figuring out the size of a liner > means first knowing the shape/area as well as depth, so there isn't anyone > who can help you exactly with that until you know what shape you desire. > There is a formula to follow when figuring out the amount of liner but I'm > not remembering it off the top of my head. I will check with my husband > tonight and get back to you for that. Sorry, it has been a long time since > I've had to use that information for either my job or myself... but I will > get it to you asap. Using a hard shell liner or a swimming pool would > eliminate that need (its used for figuring out soft liner) but that would > also limit the shape of your pond. That is a choice that only you can make. > > The pond we currently have is both underground and above ground and has > not only pond plants around the back of it but also an herb garden around > the front of it. I will try to get some photos in the next few wks as the > weather allows. That might help you a bit. It isn't at its prettiest stage > right now because we are still getting plenty of winter weather, so plants > aren't all grown and pretty... but the photos might give you some ideas for > the pond construction itself. We will be digging/building a larger one in > the near future, but we can't afford it just yet, so that won't be of any > help to you really. The new one will be very different and more "natural" > using rocks instead of wood to frame it. > > I hope this helps and I'm sorry if I missed anything from your other > post... and don't apologize for asking questions, that what this group is > for. Ask all the questions you need! This is not something you want to > guess at and need to be informed before you begin. There is nobody here who > minds the extensive questions. > > Dawn > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53322	From: erika77andnewton91	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond//bureaucratic hoops

its not like that in all places john. it often depends on the local lawmakers. In my county we have similar rules because its a more urban built up area (fenced in, building permits past a certain size etc). i can go the next county over and one can literally build a one acre pond no questions asked.sometimes it also depends on the neighborhoods and any deed restrictions there might be. erika newark de usa --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > I'm absolutely amazed at the amount of bureaucratic hoops you have to jump > through in the States to build ponds on your own land-I was convinced that > we had the monopoly on interfering red tape here in the UK!! > > John*<o)))< > > *

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53323	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Hi Desire', Just to follow on from Dawn's expansive post-a few more ideas & suggestions for you as I work with Koi ponds. I think a 3000 gallon would be the minimum you want to aim for & if possible 5000+ would be better, remember these fish are going to live very many years & will likely reach 3 feet long [or more] so they will need plenty of room not to mention the waste they will generate! I can't remember if I have mentioned this before but I know a lady who has a fabulous 6000 gallon pond that is part dug & part raised. She has dug down approx 3 feet below ground level & then built up the sides with old railway sleepers which are securely fastened together & this all makes a depth of water around 5 feet. The top of the railway sleepers has become one large all-round padded seat & the entire pond is covered with a permanent roof with the sides open. This means it never freezes & also discourages predators. I've been there & hand fed one of her fish who is 43 years old & she has had him since he was a baby. Plants-a plus side to having an all over roof is you virtually eliminate blanket weed which although not harmful is a constant Summer pest but the down side is you can only have pond plants around the edge where the sunlight can hit the water. Waterfalls-they look nice but make sure they are well built & double lined below the masonry because in my experience they are the weak point in a pond's integrity. Many times when we have been called to look at a pond that is leaking, I would guess 70% of the time it is the waterfall that has cracked & is leaking due to frost, heat or simply poor cementing. My late friend Lawrence who had worked in the industry for 40 years had a theory, although never proven, that disease *could* be brought into a pond by birds bathing in the waterfall. This is because they can bring disease from any water course they have visited straight to your pond on their feet. I've no evidence for this one way or another but worth thinking about. Most of the remaining 30% of pond leaks seem to be down to bad plumbing, poorly fitted hoses [especially on the pressure side] & bulkheads or old cracked buried hose-that is a real nightmare to trace & diagnose! Only a very few cases I have known involve the actual lining being holed although we did have one last year. That was due to a garden ornament-a metal Heron-being knocked into the pond by an unknown creature & its beak holed the lining a foot underwater. Always avoid putting anything tall or sharp nearby as it may also have hurt or killed a fish as it fell. Liners. I guess large, Koi sized pre-formed plastic liners are more easily available in the US. Here in the UK the majority of pre-formed ponds are way too small for even a few Goldfish let alone Koi, if you do use a flexible liner then line the hole with old carpet or sand & try to fold any creases away from the house so that they are less apparent when viewing from indoors. This would be more obvious in a round or irregular shape because a rectangular pond would only have 4 creases-one at each corner. Filtration-I don't know much about your options in the US but one of the best filters we have is the Oase Biotech range-here is the 30 which I think would be a good option for your size of pond & are very easy to clean & maintain: http://www.swelluk.com/pond/pond-filters-24/pond-bio-filters-328/oase-biotec-30-pond-filter-609.html TMC make some great UV clarifiers that will help to keep your pond parasite & blanket weed free: http://85.133.58.150/Catalog/Category/83 As Dawn said there are loads of options & these were just some ideas to start you off. John*<o)))<* On 7 March 2012 01:41, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > I know I wrote about this before, but I still have so many questions- I > only remember reading two replies to my previous email about it, and one > referred me to a koi website (Which, btw, Thanks Amber! It didn't quite > have the info I was looking for though)I am sure there are other fish pond > people out there that could give me some advice! > > My first question is how many gallons would be sufficient for three koi? I > may add a few more but wanted to know the minimum requirement for the three > I already have first. That way I at least know that I'm not going too small > in the size. I was THINKING of going 3000 gallons. Not sure if that is a > good size for the ones I alerady have and if I'd have roomto add a few more? > > Next, I am wondering how to figure out the dimensions for the pond once I > know how many gallons I want it to be. I do know that I want it 3 feet deep. > > Thirdly, I am looking for recommendations on a good filter for koi and > what to look for in the filters. I want to make sure I get a filter that > will do the job it needs to do! > > Fourth, a good place to buy the liner and where it isn't too expensive, > but a fair price. Then I need to figure out how big of a liner I will need > to order once I know my pond dimensions. > > I will stop for now not to overwhelm and looking forward to getting some > responses. Time is fastly approaching to get this project started and I > want to be as prepared as possible- not to mention having the finances in > order to do the project. We are getting a swimming pool put in our backyard > (above ground) and will attach it to our existing back deck...but the koi > pond will be between the original deck and the pool. So I'm going to have > to see how much space we will need to leave for it before we get our pool > and such. > > We thought of buying a 3 ft. swimming pool (like the kind you get at > Walmart) to put the kois in but don't know how that would work out (my dad > would put wood all around it and such to where you wouldn't even see the > pool and there would be a sitting area next to the pond/koi pool). I would > imagine there are several cons to doing it this way and if you have any > input on that as well, please feelf ree to share! I will pass along any of > that input to my dad- who would be doing the project! > > Thanks for any and all responses and I will try to respond more timely!! > Life here gets so hectic that I don't often hae time to respond to my email > like I'd like, but I do read every one. > > Oh and I am going to be setting up their temporary 140 gallon pond SOON. I > think it was John who gave me advice to put the outside pond pump in the > aquarium to get the good bacteria in it so the outside pond will be cycled > for them when its time for them to be transferred. I plan to do this soon! > I need to order a filter sponge and disconnect the pump outside first. I > have more questions about that but I'll ask at another time. > > Thanks again! > Desire', > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Spooks, & Ginger > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53324	From: mnsmileyss	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it

The picture is awaiting moderator approval but it will be under Minnesota Tree Frog. He(she?) was found in a friends basement awake and moving in late February. It's a good 2 months before we can release him back into the wild so I need to know how to take care of him. I say a tree frog by the sticky pads on his toes. He can climb the aquarium glass. Right now he has 2 options for food - a couple live baby swordtail fish in his little dish/pond and some fish food I make from chicken, shrimp, calf liver, veggies and flake fish food to bind it together. Also, aside from live plants, what can I give him in his aquarium to make him comfortable?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53325	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it

Hello:    Until the pics are up it will be hard to tell the species though I lean towards the Grey Treefrog (Hyla versicolor), or the Spring Peeper (Pseudacris crucifer) (we'll see.).    No matter what it is most treefrogs are similar in care.  They prefer a woodland habitat with a large pond-type water bowl and their preferred food is insects (crickets, mealworms, moths, etc.).  They usually feed with no problem.  The frog should be easy to care for until you release it.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: mnsmileyss <mnsmileyss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it   The picture is awaiting moderator approval but it will be under Minnesota Tree Frog. He(she?) was found in a friends basement awake and moving in late February. It's a good 2 months before we can release him back into the wild so I need to know how to take care of him. I say a tree frog by the sticky pads on his toes. He can climb the aquarium glass. Right now he has 2 options for food - a couple live baby swordtail fish in his little dish/pond and some fish food I make from chicken, shrimp, calf liver, veggies and flake fish food to bind it together. Also, aside from live plants, what can I give him in his aquarium to make him comfortable? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53326	From: Joseph F	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Methylene Blue & java moss?

Does anyone know if a treatment of Methylene Blue will kill java moss? Thank you. Joseph Endlers.comxa.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53327	From: harry perry	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: John.......Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care

Go to the group home page and click on one new photo. Harry ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it       Hello:    Until the pics are up it will be hard to tell the species though I lean towards the Grey Treefrog (Hyla versicolor), or the Spring Peeper (Pseudacris crucifer) (we'll see.).    No matter what it is most treefrogs are similar in care.  They prefer a woodland habitat with a large pond-type water bowl and their preferred food is insects (crickets, mealworms, moths, etc.).  They usually feed with no problem.  The frog should be easy to care for until you release it.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: mnsmileyss <mnsmileyss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it   The picture is awaiting moderator approval but it will be under Minnesota Tree Frog. He(she?) was found in a friends basement awake and moving in late February. It's a good 2 months before we can release him back into the wild so I need to know how to take care of him. I say a tree frog by the sticky pads on his toes. He can climb the aquarium glass. Right now he has 2 options for food - a couple live baby swordtail fish in his little dish/pond and some fish food I make from chicken, shrimp, calf liver, veggies and flake fish food to bind it together. Also, aside from live plants, what can I give him in his aquarium to make him comfortable? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53328	From: john Lewis	Date: 3/8/2012
Subject: Re: John.......Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to c

Hello:    Thanx for the heads Up.  My hunch was correct.  It is a cute little Grey Treefrog so the care I outlined would be correct until it is released.  One thing I forgot to mention is that they like to be sprayed with water from a sprayer bottle occasionally.  As an added bonus, if the frog is a male, he may start calling after being sprayed.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 5:11 PM Subject: John.......Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it   Go to the group home page and click on one new photo. Harry ________________________________ From: john Lewis <creatureproductions@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it ﾂ� ﾃつ�ﾃつ�ﾃつ� Hello: ﾃつ�ﾃつ� Until the pics are up it will be hard to tell the species though I lean towards the Grey Treefrog (Hyla versicolor), or the Spring Peeper (Pseudacris crucifer) (we'll see.). ﾃつ�ﾃつ� No matter what it is most treefrogs are similar in care.ﾃつ� They prefer a woodland habitat with a large pond-type water bowl and their preferred food is insects (crickets, mealworms, moths, etc.).ﾃつ� They usually feed with no problem.ﾃつ� The frog should be easy to care for until you release it. ﾃつ�ﾃつ� Have a Great Day!!! ﾃつ�ﾃつ� Spawn ________________________________ From: mnsmileyss <mnsmileyss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help ID a frog and tell me how to care for it ﾃつ� The picture is awaiting moderator approval but it will be under Minnesota Tree Frog. He(she?) was found in a friends basement awake and moving in late February. It's a good 2 months before we can release him back into the wild so I need to know how to take care of him. I say a tree frog by the sticky pads on his toes. He can climb the aquarium glass. Right now he has 2 options for food - a couple live baby swordtail fish in his little dish/pond and some fish food I make from chicken, shrimp, calf liver, veggies and flake fish food to bind it together. Also, aside from live plants, what can I give him in his aquarium to make him comfortable? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53329	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Aw Carp!

I lost a day this week and thought today is Friday, not Saturday. Don't anyone else miss this event in Lyndhurst, NJ today! http://njas.net/documents/swapper.pdf Sorry, Ray! I'll catch up with you at another event. ~Kai

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53330	From: William M	Date: 3/10/2012
Subject: Re: Another option for koi pond//bureaucratic hoops

I believe that the formula for a soft liner is to take the debth (times 2) and add the width or length and then again add 2 foot (for overhang and being able to trim it or place rocks or other itmes on it to keep it from falling into the pond and emptying it. Yes you need to have the liner go up and down the sides of the pond (therfore the 2 times the debth and the length or width (widest or longest points) plus add enough so that it will come over and out of the pond by about a foot on all sides. If you fill it slowly, you can fold the liner so that the folds do not show or allow to trap any fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "erika77andnewton91" <e.isme@...> wrote: > > its not like that in all places john. it often depends on the local lawmakers. In my county we have similar rules because its a more urban built up area (fenced in, building permits past a certain size etc). i can go the next county over and one can literally build a one acre pond no questions asked.sometimes it also depends on the neighborhoods and any deed restrictions there might be. > > erika newark de usa > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > I'm absolutely amazed at the amount of bureaucratic hoops you have to jump > > through in the States to build ponds on your own land-I was convinced that > > we had the monopoly on interfering red tape here in the UK!! > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53331	From: Weims and Labs	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: full spectrum light for heating

Hi, My name is Georgene.  I'm new to this group.  I have 2-29 gal tropical freshwater fish tanks, a vivarium with live plants and a toad and frog, and a 6 gal tank with a very prolific male molly.    In my vivarium I have been using zoo med daylight blue full spectrum for heating.  They are only are lasting a month.  Can anyone give me a better bulb to use.  I don't need a lot of heat.   Georgene, Hunter, Harley, and Rocky                   “It took awhile, but when their number dwindled from 50 to eight, the other dwarfs began to suspect Hungry.” ~Anon. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53332	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2012
Subject: Re: full spectrum light for heating

Hi Georgene. I am very suprised that you are having trouble with these lights. My friends and I use a lot of Zoo Med products without issues. Have you spoken to the retailer where you got them? My guess would be damage during shipping or on the retailers display. My friend had A two story aquarium shop with well over 100 tanks and Zoo Med were his preferred lights. Have you tried contacting Zoo Med directly? They use what they sell. The owner is big time into Herps, reptiles, and fish. Mike G -----Original Message----- From: woofs3in18103@... To: Aquatic life <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 13, 2012 1:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] full spectrum light for heating Hi, My name is Georgene. I'm new to this group. I have 2-29 gal tropical freshwater fish tanks, a vivarium with live plants and a toad and frog, and a 6 gal tank with a very prolific male molly. In my vivarium I have been using zoo med daylight blue full spectrumfor heating. They are only are lasting a month. Can anyone give me a better bulb to use. I don't need a lot of heat. Georgene,Hunter, Harley, and Rocky “It took awhile, but when their number dwindled from 50 to eight, the other dwarfs began to suspect Hungry.” ~Anon. 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53333	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/14/2012
Subject: Re: full spectrum light for heating

You might want to have your ballast checked out to be sure its not the ballast that's having the problem and thus burning out your bulbs faster than it should. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Weims and Labs <woofs3in18103@...> wrote: > > Hi, My name is Georgene.  I'm new to this group.  I have 2-29 gal tropical freshwater fish tanks, a vivarium with live plants and a toad and frog, and a 6 gal tank with a very prolific male molly.   >  In my vivarium I have been using zoo med daylight blue full spectrum for heating.  They are only are lasting a month.  Can anyone give me a better bulb to use.  I don't need a lot of heat.   > > Georgene, Hunter, Harley, and Rocky >   >   >   >   >   >   >   >   >   > “It took awhile, but when their number dwindled from 50 to eight, the other dwarfs began to suspect Hungry.” ~Anon. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53334	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Sorry that I am just now emailing back... I figured out (finally) the size my pond would be. It would be 5 feet wide x 9 feet long x 4 feet , which would make it 1350 gallons. Yes, I know this would not be large enough to support 3 koi when they are full grown. This is, however, the only available space I have to work with. I tried placing it different places and such but it would never work out right. I found the best location and where it would be enjoyed the most, but I don't have the space for it to be very large. My biggest koi is about 12 inches and the other two are still about 4-5 inches long- not very big. Wondering if it would be possible to keep only these three in that size if I have a large enough filter or am I looking at serious trouble trying to keep all three in that size? Just wondering! If need be, once they get full-size, I could get rid of two and just keep one, but I'd prefer to not have to do that. You get attached quickly to them- I have. I wish there was a way I could build a larger pond, but this is not my property and it is the space I have to work with. I'd go even 5 feet but really don't want it that deep and I KNOW my dad (who is going to construct the pond for me) is not going to want his yard dug up that deeply. So if you have any tips to make it work, I'm all ears. This will be, btw, a raised pond and it will be the shape of a rectangle. With three in a 1350 gallon, should I do PWC often to keep the water in good condition? Is it okay to use Prime water conditioner to add to the pond or do I need a different water conditioner? Just wasn't sure if the Prime could be used in ponds as well. Its what I use on the 60 gallon tank I have. I am going to get a EPDM pond liner. They are on sale right now at DrsFosterSmith. Which size would I need? Please don't give me the formula to figure it out because I tried it a few times and came out with something different each time. I mess up with numbers- math is not my strong suit obviously! If I added a waterfall, I'd have to go bigger on the liner, right? I wonder how much bigger? I have a top piece of a preformed pond where the water would flow in the main pond that I thought about using but don't know the logistics of how this would work? Oh! And would I have to account for more liner as I would like to put a shelf in about 10 inches from the top of the water or would it just use the same size liner by adding the shelf? Still trying to figure out the pump size I would need. Do I do 1350 gallons for GPH or less? What is a good brand of pump to buy? I think I might be confusing filter and pump though. Sorry if I am. This is all very new to me and I think I am suffering from information overload at the moment. Trying to sift out everything. Waterfalls: Do I need a separate filter for that if I decide to put one? What all will I need for the pond? Underlayer, liner Filter and or pump (are both necessary?) UV Sterlizer ANything else?? I am trying to start shoppping around so I can get an estimate on how much this project is going to cost me. I am paying cash for everything as I do not like debt so I want to budget accordingly. Would it be necessary to purchase a heater to put in the pond for winter? Trying to think ahead so I can figure out plumbing and electrical issues. I am fine without having many if any pond plants. I tried plants IN the pond, but my kois ate it all! Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming! I'm slow at responding, but this is helping so much! Definite food for thought. Desire' in Louisiana ----- Original Message ----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pond Advice for Kois Hi Desire', Just to follow on from Dawn's expansive post-a few more ideas & suggestions for you as I work with Koi ponds. I think a 3000 gallon would be the minimum you want to aim for & if possible 5000+ would be better, remember these fish are going to live very many years & will likely reach 3 feet long [or more] so they will need plenty of room not to mention the waste they will generate! I can't remember if I have mentioned this before but I know a lady who has a fabulous 6000 gallon pond that is part dug & part raised. She has dug down approx 3 feet below ground level & then built up the sides with old railway sleepers which are securely fastened together & this all makes a depth of water around 5 feet. The top of the railway sleepers has become one large all-round padded seat & the entire pond is covered with a permanent roof with the sides open. This means it never freezes & also discourages predators. I've been there & hand fed one of her fish who is 43 years old & she has had him since he was a baby. Plants-a plus side to having an all over roof is you virtually eliminate blanket weed which although not harmful is a constant Summer pest but the down side is you can only have pond plants around the edge where the sunlight can hit the water. Waterfalls-they look nice but make sure they are well built & double lined below the masonry because in my experience they are the weak point in a pond's integrity. Many times when we have been called to look at a pond that is leaking, I would guess 70% of the time it is the waterfall that has cracked & is leaking due to frost, heat or simply poor cementing. My late friend Lawrence who had worked in the industry for 40 years had a theory, although never proven, that disease *could* be brought into a pond by birds bathing in the waterfall. This is because they can bring disease from any water course they have visited straight to your pond on their feet. I've no evidence for this one way or another but worth thinking about. Most of the remaining 30% of pond leaks seem to be down to bad plumbing, poorly fitted hoses [especially on the pressure side] & bulkheads or old cracked buried hose-that is a real nightmare to trace & diagnose! Only a very few cases I have known involve the actual lining being holed although we did have one last year. That was due to a garden ornament-a metal Heron-being knocked into the pond by an unknown creature & its beak holed the lining a foot underwater. Always avoid putting anything tall or sharp nearby as it may also have hurt or killed a fish as it fell. Liners. I guess large, Koi sized pre-formed plastic liners are more easily available in the US. Here in the UK the majority of pre-formed ponds are way too small for even a few Goldfish let alone Koi, if you do use a flexible liner then line the hole with old carpet or sand & try to fold any creases away from the house so that they are less apparent when viewing from indoors. This would be more obvious in a round or irregular shape because a rectangular pond would only have 4 creases-one at each corner. Filtration-I don't know much about your options in the US but one of the best filters we have is the Oase Biotech range-here is the 30 which I think would be a good option for your size of pond & are very easy to clean & maintain: http://www.swelluk.com/pond/pond-filters-24/pond-bio-filters-328/oase-biotec-30-pond-filter-609.html TMC make some great UV clarifiers that will help to keep your pond parasite & blanket weed free: http://85.133.58.150/Catalog/Category/83 As Dawn said there are loads of options & these were just some ideas to start you off. John*<o)))<* On 7 March 2012 01:41, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > I know I wrote about this before, but I still have so many questions- I > only remember reading two replies to my previous email about it, and one > referred me to a koi website (Which, btw, Thanks Amber! It didn't quite > have the info I was looking for though)I am sure there are other fish pond > people out there that could give me some advice! > > My first question is how many gallons would be sufficient for three koi? I > may add a few more but wanted to know the minimum requirement for the three > I already have first. That way I at least know that I'm not going too small > in the size. I was THINKING of going 3000 gallons. Not sure if that is a > good size for the ones I alerady have and if I'd have roomto add a few more? > > Next, I am wondering how to figure out the dimensions for the pond once I > know how many gallons I want it to be. I do know that I want it 3 feet deep. > > Thirdly, I am looking for recommendations on a good filter for koi and > what to look for in the filters. I want to make sure I get a filter that > will do the job it needs to do! > > Fourth, a good place to buy the liner and where it isn't too expensive, > but a fair price. Then I need to figure out how big of a liner I will need > to order once I know my pond dimensions. > > I will stop for now not to overwhelm and looking forward to getting some > responses. Time is fastly approaching to get this project started and I > want to be as prepared as possible- not to mention having the finances in > order to do the project. We are getting a swimming pool put in our backyard > (above ground) and will attach it to our existing back deck...but the koi > pond will be between the original deck and the pool. So I'm going to have > to see how much space we will need to leave for it before we get our pool > and such. > > We thought of buying a 3 ft. swimming pool (like the kind you get at > Walmart) to put the kois in but don't know how that would work out (my dad > would put wood all around it and such to where you wouldn't even see the > pool and there would be a sitting area next to the pond/koi pool). I would > imagine there are several cons to doing it this way and if you have any > input on that as well, please feelf ree to share! I will pass along any of > that input to my dad- who would be doing the project! > > Thanks for any and all responses and I will try to respond more timely!! > Life here gets so hectic that I don't often hae time to respond to my email > like I'd like, but I do read every one. > > Oh and I am going to be setting up their temporary 140 gallon pond SOON. I > think it was John who gave me advice to put the outside pond pump in the > aquarium to get the good bacteria in it so the outside pond will be cycled > for them when its time for them to be transferred. I plan to do this soon! > I need to order a filter sponge and disconnect the pump outside first. I > have more questions about that but I'll ask at another time. > > Thanks again! > Desire', > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Spooks, & Ginger > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53335	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/15/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Hi Desire', That's too bad that you can only build a pond with a capacity of 1350 gallons. As I recall, you said you were planning on 3000 gallons many months ago, but I see thing have changed. Can you go just one more foot wider or longer? It's recommended that Koi need a minimum pf between 500 and 600 gallons each -- preferably 600 gallons each, but at least 500 gallons each. PWC's will help support your three Koi as they reach near maximum size, but they can reach up to at least 32". Normally, PWC's are done on ponds (of adequate size) about every two months during the growing season, and your 1350 gallon pond wouldn't need any more than that when your fish are still small, but as they approach 2' long several years from now (and a 12" Koi can grow at least 4" and possibly 6" in a season), you'll have to start changing more water than usual in a few years. Yes, you can use Prime, but many water gardeners use Ammo-Lock-2 (by Pond Care/Tetra). With 1350 gallons -- if that's only as large as you can build it -- you could still easily keep two full size Koi. Now, if you could add 1' to the length, this would give you 1500 gallons (actually 1496 gallons) but if you could instead add 1' to the width you would have 1600 gallons (actually, 1615 gallons), both of which would just about be fine for 3 Koi but the 1' wider pond would give you just a bit more. If you can't go any wider or longer, adding just 6" to the depth (4 1/2' deep) would give you 1458 gallons -- fairly close to the recommended absolute minimum for 3 Koi, but at that depth you would definitely need to keep you water clear or else you may not see the fish clearly since they're primaraily bottom swimmers. Most water garden suppliers offer EPDM liner only in 5' increments. It's made by Pond Guard, a subsidiary of Firestone Rubber and should be 45 MiIL thick (if it isn't offered by Drs Foster & Smith in this minimum thickness, look elsewhere). I don't know if Drs Foster & Smith offer it right to the exact size, but I guess you'll soon find that out. For you present plan of 5' X 9' X 4' the first thing you should know is that for determining the liner size, the depth (4' in your case) needs to be doubled in each direction (width and length) as there are 2 sides and 2 ends. So, lengthwise you will need 9' X 8' (2 times 4' ) = 17' -- AND you should preferably have 1' overlap on top at each of the four sides, although you can get away with 6" overlap if you really need to. BUT, as the liner is probably being cut in 5' increments, this will include the full 1' overlap in each direction when you take it as needed to be cut. Getting back to this length. now determined at 17' add this 2' (1' on each side) overlap to it. This will come out to 19' that you need for your 9' length and 4' depth with 1' overlap on each side. You may need to buy it as 20' though. Now, with the width of 5' add 8' (2 sides at 4' deep), and also add the additional 2' overlap (1' on each side) -- for a total of 15'. So you need 15' X 19' (which is usually sold as 15' X 20'. Okay, now as for the shelf -- just figure that in as extra bottom width or length (depending upon which direction you're going to make the shelf at). This material will be extra and will only be included as part of your 15' X 19' liner -- IF you intend on having the shelf at one of the ends of the pond, but NOT at one of the sides -- as in all likelyhood, it will come as 15' X 20' But ask DrsFosterSmith when ordering if it auromatically is to be cut as 20' long. OTHERWISE, you will need to specifically ask for the full 20'. If you want your shelf to be at one of the sides however, you'll definitely need to ask for more material. EPDM liner is not cut in inches but only in feet, so you'll have a 12' shelf (not a 10" shelf). Up until this point, you'll need 15' for the width, but with the shelf, you'll need 16' -- although, if DrsFosterSmith cuts only to 5' increments, as most places do, you'll need to order 20' wide and trim 4' off off it. So, in this case, you'll need a liner 20' X 19' (probably cut as 20' X 20' ) if you have the shelf on the side rather than at the end. This would be alright, since you're planning on a waterfall, so this cut-off material won't go to waste. You waterfall needs to be lined with EPDM liner also, and you have a strip 4' wide X 20' long for this use. This is secured to your pond liner with special EPDM double-sided 3" wide double sided tape. After the waterfall liner is secured, by overlapping it over the poond liner and installing the tape between the two, it's usually best to additionally seal the seam with an overlay of EPDM single-sided 6" tape. For the absolute best bonding of the seam, it's best to use Firestone's "Quick Prime Plus" made especially for better bonding when using these EPDM tapes. It's not cheap though, as it costs around $24 a quart (minimum size), but it's well worth the security that this seam will never leak. And, No, you don;t need a separate pump for the waterfall, although all the plumping should be in place as the pond is being built as it's usually done with a bottom drain (they come in 3" and 4" diameter opening, sizes). A 2" diameter vacuum bottom drain can be installed later, if you don't install a regular bottom drain at the time the pond is first being built, but your flexible hosing will then be in your pond and not outside underneath it. Most pumps and filters are sold separately. For your size pond, an Oase BioClear Model 5 filter would be one choice you could go with; it's rated for a 1500 gallon pond. You could also look into a Cyprio Bioforce #2000 Filter (for ponds less than 1400 gallons). A Cyprio "Green Machine" would be another choice. I think the Oase would be a good choice, when having a waterfall, but any of these would work fine. For operating the waterfall, you'll need to install a diversion valve to direct a portion of the water to the top of the waterfall. There are several different pumps to use, and brands of them, but part of the size you'd need would depend on the filter of choice and also the height of the waterfall -- and the volume of water you'd like to have flowing through it. Oh, and YES, a filter is definitely needed with Koi. If the bottom of the pond's hole is sandy, you'd be safer from any punctures, and may not need much more than a heavy layer of newspaper being layed down first, but if there are any rocks ate all, you'll need an underlayment. You could buy this with the liner, but many people just use old rugs if any are being thrown out around your neighborhood, and this is perfectly acceptable to shield against rocks, after first digging out all of them that you can. A UV Sterilizer is a good idea if there's the chance that your pond might develop suspended algae. This in large part depends on how many hours of full sun you'd get during the day. Some of the excess sunlight can be blocked by keeping the pond 2/3 covered with some type or another of floating aquatic plants, but too much sun can still cause algae despite this precaution. There are several manufacturers of them, with Tetra being one of the least expensive. This manufacturer offers them in 3 sizes, but for ponds up to 1800 gallons, you'd only need the smallest; Model UV-1. Again, you'd need another diversion valve for this model as it has a maximum flow rate of 900 GPH. If you'd like, I could mail you a water garden catalog from Waterford Gardens which I used to manage until about 5 years ago. It will be an outdated catalog, so the prices probably changed a bit, but it will give you some idea of what's needed and what's available. Ray . . </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53336	From: D and g	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: hi what is a good plant

i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to servive in gravel not souyal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53337	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

Hi, Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants that you could have. John*<o)))< * On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > ** > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > servive in gravel not souyal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53338	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants though. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant Hi, Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants that you could have. John*<o)))< * On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > servive in gravel not souyal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53339	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Hi Desire' Don't worry about information overload-I know exactly what you mean. I had exactly the same problems when I started out. Just save the info & read it later at your leisure. Ray's advice is far more detailed than mine so if I am at odds with anything he says then please go by his advice rather than my suggestions! I would agree with Ray about the 500 gallons per Koi so how about less steps underwater for the plant pots-making a couple of the sides straight down rather than grading should easily give you 1,500 gallons but you will have to be on top of the water quality at all times once the fish have reached adult sizes although by that time you will have a lot more experience so it will be easy. Have a look at this page for some creative ideas about design & situation: http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/ponds/pond_design.html The small pond with the roll-over netting is only 600 gallons but a similar netting structure could easily be constructed on a pond 3 times the size & it provides 100% protection. The lady who owns that pond has lost no fish to predation since the net was installed several years ago. It rests on an enclosed line of short wooden stakes that we hammered into the ground to form a sturdy wall. The 1000 gallon pond immediately above it is partially sunken & has the low wall around it that could easily double as seating-very pleasant on warm Summer evenings! Note the method of filling to let the liner pull itself into the pond rather than forcing it. Letting it fill naturally & just assisting the liner to form into the shape will ensure that there is no undue stress on any one part of the liner. Let me know if you have any specific questions about these ponds. Water changes- with a 10-20% water change every couple of weeks once the fish are adult size. An alternative to doing regular water changes could be to have a trickle system. That is a line plumbed into the mains supply with a dechlorinating unit & delivering a precise amount of water & a similar amount being expelled from the pond via an overflow so that there is a slow but constant water change process going on. Do you know if your local water company use chlorine or chloramine? If they use chlorine an alternative to using a water conditioner is just to atomise the water in a fine spray to refill after a water change. That will off-gas the chlorine & you can smell it coming out. If they use chloramine then unfortunately you will have to use conditioner. Many water companies have a facility on their website whereby you can enter your post/zip code & you will get a detailed water report for that area. have a look & see if you can do this. If you can then post the results & it will be interesting to see as it details many more things of use to the fish keeper. As for sizing the pond liner-really easy for a rectangular hole, even though you are planning to have it graduated just imagine it is square on all dimensions [like a swimming pool] & calculate that way. Down one side-across the bottom via the longest dimension of the rectangle & up the other side plus add at least 2 feet either side just to be sure & buy a square piece this size. I'm not a big fan of waterfalls for a couple of reasons, mainly they are often the weak point of a system for water loss plus the chance of birds carrying disease from infected water courses on their feet when they come to bathe in the waterfall. If you must have a waterfall then I would go for a pre-formed plastic one-piece. That way you can well overlap the waterfall across the edge of the liner. Pumps-not sure what you have available in the US but some good makes are Oase & Aquamax. The best filters in my opinion are Oase Biotechs I think I linked one of those to you last time. The set-up is simple, the pump goes near the lowest part of the pond-not right on the bottom because if you have any disasters like a broken hose [drive-train] then that would empty your pond down to the level of the pump. If the pump is on the bottom then the fish will die-if the pump is on a coupe of breeze blocks or similar then the fish have small but survivable amount of water until they are discovered. Set the bricks/blocks additional pieces of liner trimmed from the edge to protect the main liner below & as a final precaution secure the pump to the blocks with cable ties [I think you call them zip strips?] so the pump cannot be inadvertently knocked off by a boisterous fish-you would be surprised how powerful these fish can be! From the pump you have a length of flexible concertina hose up to the filter which is situated at the highest point-possibly on a small purpose built mound-you could use some of the spoil from your pond excavations to build your filter mound. Then the filter is working purely by gravity-it fills from the pump at the bottom of the pond & the water returns via the waterfall or simply a large pipe outfall. You want to ensure that the return water is well away from the pump area-that way you will be getting a good circulation of the entire pond. If possible get the returning outfall at an angle to the pond so you have a gentle swirling motion in the water. If your return water is coming back in near the pump you will leave large areas around the edge to go stagnant as they will get very little current. Regarding the UV clarifier unit I think I sent you a link for them last time too but let me know & I will resend if you can't find it. To line the hole before putting the liner in you can use sand or old carpets. If you have a local carpet fitting store they will probably jump at the chance to offload old removed carpets rather than have to take them to the local rubbish dump. Generally ponds in the UK don't have heaters but I am not familiar with Louisiana weather, do you get bad Winters? John*<o)))<* On 15 March 2012 16:08, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Desire', > > That's too bad that you can only build a pond with a capacity of 1350 > gallons. As I recall, you said you were planning on 3000 gallons many > months > ago, but I see thing have changed. Can you go just one more foot wider or > longer? It's recommended that Koi need a minimum pf between 500 and 600 > gallons each -- preferably 600 gallons each, but at least 500 gallons > each. PWC's > will help support your three Koi as they reach near maximum size, but they > can reach up to at least 32". Normally, PWC's are done on ponds (of > adequate size) about every two months during the growing season, and your > 1350 > gallon pond wouldn't need any more than that when your fish are still > small, but > as they approach 2' long several years from now (and a 12" Koi can grow at > least 4" and possibly 6" in a season), you'll have to start changing more > water than usual in a few years. > > Yes, you can use Prime, but many water gardeners use Ammo-Lock-2 (by Pond > Care/Tetra). With 1350 gallons -- if that's only as large as you can build > it -- you could still easily keep two full size Koi. Now, if you could add > 1' to the length, this would give you 1500 gallons (actually 1496 gallons) > but if you could instead add 1' to the width you would have 1600 gallons > (actually, 1615 gallons), both of which would just about be fine for 3 Koi > but > the 1' wider pond would give you just a bit more. If you can't go any > wider > or longer, adding just 6" to the depth (4 1/2' deep) would give you 1458 > gallons -- fairly close to the recommended absolute minimum for 3 Koi, but > at > that depth you would definitely need to keep you water clear or else you > may > not see the fish clearly since they're primaraily bottom swimmers. > > Most water garden suppliers offer EPDM liner only in 5' increments. It's > made by Pond Guard, a subsidiary of Firestone Rubber and should be 45 MiIL > thick (if it isn't offered by Drs Foster & Smith in this minimum > thickness, > look elsewhere). I don't know if Drs Foster & Smith offer it right to the > exact size, but I guess you'll soon find that out. For you present plan of > 5' > X 9' X 4' the first thing you should know is that for determining the > liner > size, the depth (4' in your case) needs to be doubled in each direction > (width and length) as there are 2 sides and 2 ends. So, lengthwise you > will > need 9' X 8' (2 times 4' ) = 17' -- AND you should preferably have 1' > overlap > on top at each of the four sides, although you can get away with 6" > overlap > if you really need to. BUT, as the liner is probably being cut in 5' > increments, this will include the full 1' overlap in each direction when > you take > it as needed to be cut. Getting back to this length. now determined at 17' > add this 2' (1' on each side) overlap to it. This will come out to 19' > that > you need for your 9' length and 4' depth with 1' overlap on each side. You > may need to buy it as 20' though. > > Now, with the width of 5' add 8' (2 sides at 4' deep), and also add the > additional 2' overlap (1' on each side) -- for a total of 15'. So you need > 15' > X 19' (which is usually sold as 15' X 20'. > > Okay, now as for the shelf -- just figure that in as extra bottom width or > length (depending upon which direction you're going to make the shelf at). > This material will be extra and will only be included as part of your 15' > X > 19' liner -- IF you intend on having the shelf at one of the ends of the > pond, but NOT at one of the sides -- as in all likelyhood, it will come as > 15' X 20' But ask DrsFosterSmith when ordering if it auromatically is to > be > cut as 20' long. OTHERWISE, you will need to specifically ask for the full > 20'. > > If you want your shelf to be at one of the sides however, you'll > definitely > need to ask for more material. EPDM liner is not cut in inches but only in > feet, so you'll have a 12' shelf (not a 10" shelf). Up until this point, > you'll need 15' for the width, but with the shelf, you'll need 16' -- > although, if DrsFosterSmith cuts only to 5' increments, as most places do, > you'll > need to order 20' wide and trim 4' off off it. So, in this case, you'll > need > a liner 20' X 19' (probably cut as 20' X 20' ) if you have the shelf on > the > side rather than at the end. > > This would be alright, since you're planning on a waterfall, so this > cut-off material won't go to waste. You waterfall needs to be lined with > EPDM > liner also, and you have a strip 4' wide X 20' long for this use. This is > secured to your pond liner with special EPDM double-sided 3" wide double > sided > tape. After the waterfall liner is secured, by overlapping it over the > poond > liner and installing the tape between the two, it's usually best to > additionally seal the seam with an overlay of EPDM single-sided 6" tape. > For the > absolute best bonding of the seam, it's best to use Firestone's "Quick > Prime > Plus" made especially for better bonding when using these EPDM tapes. It's > not cheap though, as it costs around $24 a quart (minimum size), but it's > well worth the security that this seam will never leak. And, No, you don;t > need a separate pump for the waterfall, although all the plumping should > be in > place as the pond is being built as it's usually done with a bottom drain > (they come in 3" and 4" diameter opening, sizes). A 2" diameter vacuum > bottom drain can be installed later, if you don't install a regular bottom > drain > at the time the pond is first being built, but your flexible hosing will > then be in your pond and not outside underneath it. > > Most pumps and filters are sold separately. For your size pond, an Oase > BioClear Model 5 filter would be one choice you could go with; it's rated > for > a 1500 gallon pond. You could also look into a Cyprio Bioforce #2000 > Filter > (for ponds less than 1400 gallons). A Cyprio "Green Machine" would be > another choice. I think the Oase would be a good choice, when having a > waterfall, but any of these would work fine. For operating the waterfall, > you'll > need to install a diversion valve to direct a portion of the water to the > top > of the waterfall. There are several different pumps to use, and brands of > them, but part of the size you'd need would depend on the filter of choice > and also the height of the waterfall -- and the volume of water you'd like > to > have flowing through it. Oh, and YES, a filter is definitely needed with > Koi. > > If the bottom of the pond's hole is sandy, you'd be safer from any > punctures, and may not need much more than a heavy layer of newspaper > being layed > down first, but if there are any rocks ate all, you'll need an > underlayment. > You could buy this with the liner, but many people just use old rugs if > any > are being thrown out around your neighborhood, and this is perfectly > acceptable to shield against rocks, after first digging out all of them > that you > can. > > A UV Sterilizer is a good idea if there's the chance that your pond might > develop suspended algae. This in large part depends on how many hours of > full sun you'd get during the day. Some of the excess sunlight can be > blocked > by keeping the pond 2/3 covered with some type or another of floating > aquatic plants, but too much sun can still cause algae despite this > precaution. > There are several manufacturers of them, with Tetra being one of the least > expensive. This manufacturer offers them in 3 sizes, but for ponds up to > 1800 > gallons, you'd only need the smallest; Model UV-1. Again, you'd need > another diversion valve for this model as it has a maximum flow rate of > 900 GPH. > > If you'd like, I could mail you a water garden catalog from Waterford > Gardens which I used to manage until about 5 years ago. It will be an > outdated > catalog, so the prices probably changed a bit, but it will give you some > idea > of what's needed and what's available. > > Ray > > . > > . </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53340	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. John*<o)))<* On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > Hi, > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > that you could have. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53341	From: D and g F	Date: 3/16/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

i am trying to breed rosys and want to use plants as a filter i am using a 10 gal tank i am making a plant box to run the water in to  ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant   I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. John*<o)))<* On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > Hi, > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > that you could have. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53342	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

Plants can help remove certain toxins, but I don't think they can totally replace a filter. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of D and g F Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant i am trying to breed rosys and want to use plants as a filter i am using a 10 gal tank i am making a plant box to run the water in to ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. John*<o)))<* On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > ** > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > Hi, > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > that you could have. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53343	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 3/17/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Hi John, Your pond advice is generally very good, but I feel the need to add to it to clarify some points made. One thing I'm a bit unsure of though, is your reference to some of Desire's plans she stated in the last message she posted -- unless there was a more recent post she made that I didn't see (and I really would appreciate being directed to it if there is one I haven't seen). One of these points is Desire's planned plant step -- singular, not multiple -- and which she states as going to be 10" wide. I can see that this very point needs to be clarified, for both you and Desire', as for one thing it would need to be planned outside of her 5' X 9' perimeter plan for her pond or else it would severely reduce the 1350 (actually, 1346) gallon capacity she plans for with her dimensions. As an addition though, to either the 5' width or 9' length she has in mind, this would retain the 1350 gallons figured by the full 5' X 9' width and length of this planned pond. While the pond itself (without yet any plans for this shelf) is being planned to be a full 5' X 9', I'm assuming that this 10" shelf is being planned by Desire' to extend beyond her pond's dimensions -- or at least I'm hoping she's planning this. So, with the shelf, the overall pond dimensions would be (depending on where this shelf would be situated), either 5' 10" wide X 9' long, or 5' X 9' 10" long. This would retain the full 1350 gallons figured upon. As I said above, without having the shelf dimension external to the actual pond dimensions, having it figured within the 5' X 9' parimeter would reduce the water capacity. The 10" wide shelf would have to be bought as 1' as no one cuts EPDM liner in inches, but while on this topic there is one other thing I need to make clear. As far as figuring the extramaterial to make this shelf, it doesn't matter at what depth this shelf would be. The shelf could be placed at and depth and the 1' extra EPDM liner is all that's needed, beyond what I already stated for the pond proper and its overlap onto the ground (or top support of the pond, if it's elevated). Also, and I hope you are able to follow me here, in your 4th paragraph ("As for sizing the pond liner . . . "), with your mention of having an extra 2' feet on either side -- I hope by "side" you mean (both width and length) with 2 feet being added to the width & depth measurements and 2 feet being added to the length & depth measurements. What I'm getting at is that there is no need for either the width or the depth to have 2 feet added to the ponds dimensions on all four sides, as your recommendation could be interpreted. There needs to be only 1 foot added to each side as extra liner material, and while this simple figure can be confusing without having a diagram to view, the full width of the pond liner as planned by Desire' (and this is WITHOUT figuring in the extra shelf) needs to be 5' wide (as the very bottom), + 4' deep (on one side), + 4' deep (on the other side) + 1' , + 1' as overlap at the top of each of these two 4' sides. For a total of 15'. This goes the same with the full length of the liner. The length (as the very bottom) is 9', + 4' deep (on one side), + 4' deep (on the other side), + 1', + 1' for overlap at the top of each of the 4' sides. For a total of 19'. This dimension likely will be sold only as 20', if DrsFosterSmith sells EPDM liner only in 5' increments as most other suppliers do, so 1' will need to be trimmed. Now, as far as your mention of imagining the pond to be square in all dimensions -- like a swimming pool -- Desire's 1350 gallons she figured would only be calculated to be at this capacity if all four sides were perpendicular (completely verticle) to the bottom. This is one reason why I believe she must already realize that any shelf build within the dimensions she gave would take away from this capacity, and that the shelf needs to extend outside of those dimensions given to retain this capacity. A pre-formed, plastic waterfall is not the best route to go (pleaee don't confuse Desire' ), as it is not easily joined to the EPDM liner. Only extra EPDM liner, joined as I previously mention via Firestone materials for their liner product, would make a leak-proof one-piece EPDM unit with the liner. After the waterfall base is constructed (by stone, wood, dirt, cement or any other material), the extra EPDM liner is put into place over this waterfall base to make a completely leak-proof liner for it. Any addition stonework should then be placed within (on top of) the waterfall to the design of the builder, but this stone should preferably be rounded and weathered to prevent any punctures. While on this subject, the most common cause of lost water when having a waterfall feature is water being diverted out of the pond at one of the sides, no matter how small this diversion is. Over time, with continual water diversion as the waterfall constantly flows, more and more water can be lost until it becomes substantial. The design of the sides of the waterfall must be attended to, to prevent such a water diversion from occurring. Oase pumps are one of the best. There are a number of good submersible pumps to be used, but if having a waterfall (and a large above-ground filter), one of the small external pumps. like the Sequence (brand) Model # 3500, would be a good choice expecially with the higher the waterfall that's being planned for. Yes, submersibele pump -- or the bottom-drain leading to the hose for the external pump and filter should always be place at the opposite end of the pond from the water's return, whether that be a waterfall or just a plain return pipe. This ensures complete circulation of the pond. While there's nothing wrong with a gravity operated pond filter, there are also pressurized ones which offer a greater flow capacity. As for the pump size, I can't recommend what's needed without knowing the height of the planned waterfall, as larger ones are needed the higher the water is to be lifted. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53344	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....

My rock has been in my cory tank for two weeks now and everyone seems happy still. Thanks for all the cleaning advice. I put a pic. in my folder if anyone is interested. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > hi all. > i appreciate all your knolledge. > i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i think it should be ok. > i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution and scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and if the rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? > i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house my great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. > i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. > thanks > al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53345	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....

Hi Al, Looks good! Shouldn't be a problem as it's probably inert but what are your parameters just now? John*<o)))< * On 18 March 2012 18:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > My rock has been in my cory tank for two weeks now and everyone seems > happy still. Thanks for all the cleaning advice. I put a pic. in my folder > if anyone is interested. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > hi all. > > i appreciate all your knolledge. > > i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i > think it should be ok. > > i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution > and scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and > if the rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? > > i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house > my great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised > there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. > > i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. > > thanks > > al. > > > > > Reply to sender<al_keep_fish@...?subject=Re%3A%20rocks%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%20update%2E%2E%2E%2E>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20rocks%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%20update%2E%2E%2E%2E>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTM2MjcwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--?act=reply&messageNum=53344>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2w1Mm0wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53239;_ylc=X3oDMTM2M2RhZ2h0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MAR0cGNJZAM1MzIzOQ-->( > 6) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTdiYTg0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzIwOTUwODA-?o=6> > 8 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGFsM2x0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53346	From: D and g F	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

this is what i am talking http://blog.stylefactory.com/modern-aquariums ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:26 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant   Plants can help remove certain toxins, but I don't think they can totally replace a filter. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of D and g F Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant i am trying to breed rosys and want to use plants as a filter i am using a 10 gal tank i am making a plant box to run the water in to ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. John*<o)))<* On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > ** > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants though. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > Hi, > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are quite > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > that you could have. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs to > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53347	From: Judy Moon	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12

Some of you already know, others are just now being told. My house in Chino Valley is sold and supposed to close on 3/23/12. I am renting a 15 ft U-haul and an auto transport for my SUV. I am only moving 2 pieces of furniture (a barrel chair on wheels and a wood chest). I sold all the other furniture. The buyer, and 2 neighbors are supposed to come to help load the U-Haul. I will be out of touch until I get to Idaho. Then everyone that is getting this mail will get an email from me letting you know my snail mail, phone number and new email. Until then may God bless you all. Judy Moon Chug_dogs_-subscribe@yahoogroups.com John 3:16 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53348	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: Pond Advice for Kois

Hi Ray & Desire', I'll try to clarify-I have to admit that I did not do the calculation for both the outer & inner edges of the planned step so was unaware of the exact volume of water that each possibility would contain but I was just making the point that if the step was dispensed with & the pond was dug straight down in a purely cubic rectangle shape from the outer perimeter then that would maximise the amount of water available to her. Referring to my comment in the 4th paragraph about having an extra 2 feet of liner to play with, yes by 'side' I did mean both width & length & also I meant that a total overhang on all 4 sides should be a foot & not 2 feet. I hope you both can follow that, it might be an idea of we could do a quick sketch plan of all the possible permutations, a picture being worth a thousand words etc! I was only suggesting a pre-formed water fall as I thought it would be easier to install than building one up from scratch but as you may have gathered I am not a particular fan of waterfalls as they have often proved troublesome in the past & would rather make a pond without one by having the filter outfall piped directly back into the the pond. However, I would add that many of the 'problem' waterfalls that we have had to repair or bypass had not been built properly in the first place so obviously your advice regarding these features will be to a high standard. Finally the gravity vs pressure filter dilemma-again I'm going from experience & pressure filters are fine, I was just going with the simplest method which is the gravity worked filters. Admittedly a gravity filter cannot compete with the return power of a pressurized system unless it is substantially bigger & the fall is steep but a negative side of the pressurized system is you have more chance of springing a leak at any jointing in the drive train. Sod's Law dictates that this failure is almost always underneath the bit that you concreted in!! Again, with the filter I think once the approximate topography around the pond has been decided on then a sketch of the area would be invaluable in calculating what type of filter[s] to use. Apologies for my vagueness originally & I hope the above make more sense. John*<o)))< * On 17 March 2012 13:20, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Your pond advice is generally very good, but I feel the need to add to it > to clarify some points made. One thing I'm a bit unsure of though, is your > reference to some of Desire's plans she stated in the last message she > posted > -- unless there was a more recent post she made that I didn't see (and I > really would appreciate being directed to it if there is one I haven't > seen). > > One of these points is Desire's planned plant step -- singular, not > multiple -- and which she states as going to be 10" wide. I can see that > this very > point needs to be clarified, for both you and Desire', as for one thing it > would need to be planned outside of her 5' X 9' perimeter plan for her > pond > or else it would severely reduce the 1350 (actually, 1346) gallon capacity > she plans for with her dimensions. As an addition though, to either the 5' > width or 9' length she has in mind, this would retain the 1350 gallons > figured by the full 5' X 9' width and length of this planned pond. While > the pond > itself (without yet any plans for this shelf) is being planned to be a > full > 5' X 9', I'm assuming that this 10" shelf is being planned by Desire' to > extend beyond her pond's dimensions -- or at least I'm hoping she's > planning > this. > > So, with the shelf, the overall pond dimensions would be (depending on > where this shelf would be situated), either 5' 10" wide X 9' long, or 5' X > 9' > 10" long. This would retain the full 1350 gallons figured upon. As I said > above, without having the shelf dimension external to the actual pond > dimensions, having it figured within the 5' X 9' parimeter would reduce > the water > capacity. The 10" wide shelf would have to be bought as 1' as no one cuts > EPDM liner in inches, but while on this topic there is one other thing I > need > to make clear. As far as figuring the extramaterial to make this shelf, it > doesn't matter at what depth this shelf would be. The shelf could be > placed > at and depth and the 1' extra EPDM liner is all that's needed, beyond what > I > already stated for the pond proper and its overlap onto the ground (or top > support of the pond, if it's elevated). > > Also, and I hope you are able to follow me here, in your 4th paragraph > ("As > for sizing the pond liner . . . "), with your mention of having an extra > 2' > feet on either side -- I hope by "side" you mean (both width and length) > with 2 feet being added to the width & depth measurements and 2 feet being > added to the length & depth measurements. What I'm getting at is that > there is > no need for either the width or the depth to have 2 feet added to the > ponds > dimensions on all four sides, as your recommendation could be interpreted. > There needs to be only 1 foot added to each side as extra liner material, > and while this simple figure can be confusing without having a diagram to > view, the full width of the pond liner as planned by Desire' (and this is > WITHOUT figuring in the extra shelf) needs to be 5' wide (as the very > bottom), + > 4' deep (on one side), + 4' deep (on the other side) + 1' , + 1' as > overlap > at the top of each of these two 4' sides. For a total of 15'. > > This goes the same with the full length of the liner. The length (as the > very bottom) is 9', + 4' deep (on one side), + 4' deep (on the other > side), + > 1', + 1' for overlap at the top of each of the 4' sides. For a total of > 19'. This dimension likely will be sold only as 20', if DrsFosterSmith > sells > EPDM liner only in 5' increments as most other suppliers do, so 1' will > need > to be trimmed. > > Now, as far as your mention of imagining the pond to be square in all > dimensions -- like a swimming pool -- Desire's 1350 gallons she figured > would > only be calculated to be at this capacity if all four sides were > perpendicular > (completely verticle) to the bottom. This is one reason why I believe she > must already realize that any shelf build within the dimensions she gave > would take away from this capacity, and that the shelf needs to extend > outside > of those dimensions given to retain this capacity. > > A pre-formed, plastic waterfall is not the best route to go (pleaee don't > confuse Desire' ), as it is not easily joined to the EPDM liner. Only > extra > EPDM liner, joined as I previously mention via Firestone materials for > their > liner product, would make a leak-proof one-piece EPDM unit with the liner. > After the waterfall base is constructed (by stone, wood, dirt, cement or > any other material), the extra EPDM liner is put into place over this > waterfall base to make a completely leak-proof liner for it. Any addition > stonework > should then be placed within (on top of) the waterfall to the design of > the > builder, but this stone should preferably be rounded and weathered to > prevent any punctures. While on this subject, the most common cause of > lost > water when having a waterfall feature is water being diverted out of the > pond at > one of the sides, no matter how small this diversion is. Over time, with > continual water diversion as the waterfall constantly flows, more and more > water can be lost until it becomes substantial. The design of the sides of > the waterfall must be attended to, to prevent such a water diversion from > occurring. > > Oase pumps are one of the best. There are a number of good submersible > pumps to be used, but if having a waterfall (and a large above-ground > filter), > one of the small external pumps. like the Sequence (brand) Model # 3500, > would be a good choice expecially with the higher the waterfall that's > being > planned for. Yes, submersibele pump -- or the bottom-drain leading to the > hose for the external pump and filter should always be place at the > opposite > end of the pond from the water's return, whether that be a waterfall or > just a > plain return pipe. This ensures complete circulation of the pond. While > there's nothing wrong with a gravity operated pond filter, there are also > pressurized ones which offer a greater flow capacity. As for the pump > size, I > can't recommend what's needed without knowing the height of the planned > waterfall, as larger ones are needed the higher the water is to be lifted. > > Ray > > </HTML> > __ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53349	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/18/2012
Subject: Re: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12

Hi Judy, Do you have any fish to move & if so do you need any advice on how to do it safely? John*<o)))< * On 18 March 2012 22:33, Judy Moon <judymoon@...> wrote: > ** > > > Some of you already know, others are just now being told. My house in Chino > Valley is sold and supposed to close on 3/23/12. I am renting a 15 ft > U-haul and an auto transport for my SUV. I am only moving 2 pieces of > furniture (a barrel chair on wheels and a wood chest). I sold all the other > furniture. The buyer, and 2 neighbors are supposed to come to help load the > U-Haul. > > I will be out of touch until I get to Idaho. Then everyone that is getting > this mail will get an email from me letting you know my snail mail, phone > number and new email. Until then may God bless you all. > > Judy Moon > > Chug_dogs_-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > John 3:16 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53350	From: Ray	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: I am moving Saturday 3/24/12

Hi Judy, Hope all goes well with your move from Arizona to Idaho. While you mention selling most of your furniture and keeping only 2 of the furniture pieces, you haven't said anything about what you're doing with your aquarium(s). I realize that a 15' trailer doesn't offer very much room to haul much, but with practically no furniture to move, it would appear that carrying your tank set-up(s) would not be impossible -- unless you have a large collection of shoes or a huge wardrobe (LOL). While on the topic of your moving, I would ask you that the next time you post a message to us concerning your move, that you please use "O/T" (Off-Topic) in the Subject line since this message is way off topic here and has absolutely nothing to do with fish at all (not even a mention of "fish"). In fact, I almost thought that someone had hacked your addy, until I checked back to your membership profile that includes your present location. Best of luck on your trip up North. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Moon" <judymoon@...> wrote: > > Some of you already know, others are just now being told. My house in Chino > Valley is sold and supposed to close on 3/23/12. I am renting a 15 ft > U-haul and an auto transport for my SUV. I am only moving 2 pieces of > furniture (a barrel chair on wheels and a wood chest). I sold all the other > furniture. The buyer, and 2 neighbors are supposed to come to help load the > U-Haul. > > > > I will be out of touch until I get to Idaho. Then everyone that is getting > this mail will get an email from me letting you know my snail mail, phone > number and new email. Until then may God bless you all. > > > > Judy Moon > > Chug_dogs_-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > John 3:16 > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53351	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/19/2012
Subject: Re: rocks...... update....

thanks john... they didn't change at all. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Looks good! Shouldn't be a problem as it's probably inert but what are > your parameters just now? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 18 March 2012 18:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > My rock has been in my cory tank for two weeks now and everyone seems > > happy still. Thanks for all the cleaning advice. I put a pic. in my folder > > if anyone is interested. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > hi all. > > > i appreciate all your knolledge. > > > i have a rock i would like to put in my small tank. its semi heavy but i > > think it should be ok. > > > i power washed it so far. should i dunk it in a water bleach solution > > and scrub. then rinse rinse rinse? also i read to dunk it in vinugar, and > > if the rock doesnt bubble it is safe. is this right? > > > i would love to use it because it came from the foundation of the house > > my great great grandparents built, and my great grandma was born and raised > > there... i love family stuff. any help and hints are appreciated. > > > i put a couple pics in my folder here if that helps. > > > thanks > > > al. > > > > > > > > > Reply to sender<al_keep_fish@...?subject=Re%3A%20rocks%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%20update%2E%2E%2E%2E>| Reply > > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20rocks%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%2E%20update%2E%2E%2E%2E>| Reply > > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTM2MjcwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--?act=reply&messageNum=53344>| Start > > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2w1Mm0wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--> > > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53239;_ylc=X3oDMTM2M2RhZ2h0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MAR0cGNJZAM1MzIzOQ-->( > > 6) > > Recent Activity: > > > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTdiYTg0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzIwOTUwODA-?o=6> > > 8 > > > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGFsM2x0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjA5NTA4MA--> > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53353	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/20/2012
Subject: Re: hi what is a good plant

Hi, There are some very interesting ideas & images on your link so thanks for posting. I don't think I have seen anything like this before although I am worried about the quality of life that the Betta fish is getting in that condo because despite the many sections it has there is no decor in there for him to hide in. The next one down the modern aquarium is better in respect to decor & looks ideal for a small tropical community & is very attractive. I guess the one you are talking about is the third one down & that idea looks similar to what I am planning on dong by using a Pothos plant in my sump filter but unlike this one where the plants are utilising CO2 to give good quality air for us I am using the plants to drag my high organic levels down by eating up my NO3. I think these examples must be a demonstration as the water snakes & fish don't have any decor or cover. This makes me wonder if they have been designed by someone as a purely visual artifact with no idea of the real needs of the creatures as there doesn't appear to be any filtration going on & with animals of that size they would be dead in a matter of days without it. I really like the idea of the labyrynth-the 4th one down- as it is a real interesting space for the fish to explore & I think it would be lots of fun to watch them playing in here but I would imagine a real nightmare to clean-how would you gravel-vac those lower orbs & imagine dropping your glass magnet at the bottom!! There is [was?] a similar set up but on a mmuch larger scale in a coffee shop in Germany-ther are plenty of pictures of it on the internet with large pipes connecting tanks all over the building. The final idea-the aquarium/shower fixture is a real bad idea. Perhaps it would be fun to have a shower looking at your fish but imagine how stressful it would be for them & also how do you maintain it? There must be a service hatch somewhere but I'm thinking bruised head & elbows. Looks impressive but have the designers actually tried to keep one running for any length of time? Call me old fashioned but I still say the best tank shape is a rectangle & a filter is essential, these designs are purely art. John*<o)))< * On 18 March 2012 15:56, D and g F <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > ** > > > this is what i am talking http://blog.stylefactory.com/modern-aquariums > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:26 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > > Â > > Plants can help remove certain toxins, but I don't think they can totally > replace a filter. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of D and g F > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > i am trying to breed rosys and want to use plants as a filter i am using a > 10 gal tank i am making a plant box to run the water in to > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@... > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I > apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants > though. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] > On > > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > > > Hi, > > > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are > quite > > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > > that you could have. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs > to > > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<ford_rocks@...?subject=Re%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20hi%20what%20is%20a%20good%20plant>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20hi%20what%20is%20a%20good%20plant>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzNrb3E5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--?act=reply&messageNum=53346>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTRicHUzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53336;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bm9nZGlxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQR0cGNJZAM1MzMzNg-->( > 7) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcDFyNmsyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzIxMDUwMTU-?o=6> > 8 > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJma2Zzc3FlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzIxMDUwMTU-> > 1 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMnQ1bGhlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53354	From: Dick Houston	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Art aquariums

I hope changing the subject to more nearly reflect the comments I am going to make is ok. I normally strip the previous emails from my responses but felt in this case it was better to leave them. The so called labyrinth-the 4th one down would be fatal to many of the fish shown in it. There appear to be several male Betta Splendens in various globes. (not a good idea – male Betta Splendens fight and damage each other) The probability of a betta getting into a lower globe is high. The probability of him remembering the route back to the top is low. ( a dead betta for lack of air). The same applies to the Dwarf Gouramies shone. No this art not practical for labyrinth fish. A Servant of the Christ, Dick Houston houston@... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:53 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant Hi, There are some very interesting ideas & images on your link so thanks for posting. I don't think I have seen anything like this before although I am worried about the quality of life that the Betta fish is getting in that condo because despite the many sections it has there is no decor in there for him to hide in. The next one down the modern aquarium is better in respect to decor & looks ideal for a small tropical community & is very attractive. I guess the one you are talking about is the third one down & that idea looks similar to what I am planning on dong by using a Pothos plant in my sump filter but unlike this one where the plants are utilising CO2 to give good quality air for us I am using the plants to drag my high organic levels down by eating up my NO3. I think these examples must be a demonstration as the water snakes & fish don't have any decor or cover. This makes me wonder if they have been designed by someone as a purely visual artifact with no idea of the real needs of the creatures as there doesn't appear to be any filtration going on & with animals of that size they would be dead in a matter of days without it. I really like the idea of the labyrynth-the 4th one down- as it is a real interesting space for the fish to explore & I think it would be lots of fun to watch them playing in here but I would imagine a real nightmare to clean-how would you gravel-vac those lower orbs & imagine dropping your glass magnet at the bottom!! There is [was?] a similar set up but on a mmuch larger scale in a coffee shop in Germany-ther are plenty of pictures of it on the internet with large pipes connecting tanks all over the building. The final idea-the aquarium/shower fixture is a real bad idea. Perhaps it would be fun to have a shower looking at your fish but imagine how stressful it would be for them & also how do you maintain it? There must be a service hatch somewhere but I'm thinking bruised head & elbows. Looks impressive but have the designers actually tried to keep one running for any length of time? Call me old fashioned but I still say the best tank shape is a rectangle & a filter is essential, these designs are purely art. John*<o)))< * On 18 March 2012 15:56, D and g F <ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > this is what i am talking http://blog.stylefactory.com/modern-aquariums > > ________________________________ > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:26 AM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > >  > > Plants can help remove certain toxins, but I don't think they can totally > replace a filter. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of D and g F > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:25 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > i am trying to breed rosys and want to use plants as a filter i am using a > 10 gal tank i am making a plant box to run the water in to > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > I completely agree- a filter is essential if you are keeping fish, I > apologise for not saying that myself as I had mis-read your original post. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 16 March 2012 23:12, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I would still have a filter on your tank in addition to the plants > though. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > ] > On > > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:46 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] hi what is a good plant > > > > Hi, > > > > Peace Lilys are not true aquatic plants & there is some evidence to > > suggest that they could be poisonous to some fish so I would not bother > > with them. There are dozens of true aquatic plants, many of which are > quite > > happy in gravel. What size tank do you have, what lighting & what kind of > > fish are you keeping? That will determine the type[s] & amount of plants > > that you could have. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 16 March 2012 20:42, D and g <ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > > <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > i am still in the serch for a good plant as a filter for my fish tank > > > i am told peace lilys are good and some vegtabuls are to but it needs > to > > > servive in gravel not souyal > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<ford_rocks@... <mailto:ford_rocks%40rocketmail.com> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20hi%20what%20is%20a%20good%20plant>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20hi%20what%20is%20a%20good%20plant>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzNrb3E5BF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ2BHN lYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--?act=reply <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZzNrb3E5BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzQ2BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--?act=reply&messageNum=53346> &messageNum=53346>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOTRicHUzBF 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2 50cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53336;_ylc=X3oDMTM2b m9nZGlxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkA zUzMzQ2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQR0cGNJZAM1MzMzNg-->( > 7) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcDFyN msyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc 2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzIxMDUwMTU-?o=6> > 8 > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJma2Zzc3Fl BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xr A3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzIxMDUwMTU-> > 1 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMnQ1bGhlBF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHA Ec3RpbWUDMTMzMjEwNTAxNQ--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53355	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs

Hello Everyone, I want to keep following fishes in aquarium: 1. Pair of Blue Line Sharks 2. Pair of White Koi. 3. Pair of Arowana, Can you please suggest that how feasible is to keep such fishes & what should be the size of tank for that? Your valuable suggestions are required. BR///Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53356	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs

Hi Faisal, I know nothing about Blue Line Sharks. For Koi you need 500+ gallons per fish & a body of water that is at least 5 times their maximum body length & wide enough so they can turn without bending themselves round or touching the sides which means an aquarium at least 15 feet long x 3 feet wide. Then you will need at least 3 feet depth so that gives you a tank capacity of just over 1,000 US gallons or just under 850 UK gallons with *MASSIVE* filtration & this is just for the 2 Koi. It is not advisable to keep Carps [Koi] with any other type[s] of fish. I've never heard of anyone keeping Koi with either of the other 2 species you mention. I know very little about Arowana but I understand they can be aggressive & best kept with their own kind. John<o)))< On 21 March 2012 19:08, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Everyone, > > I want to keep following fishes in aquarium: > > 1. Pair of Blue Line Sharks > 2. Pair of White Koi. > 3. Pair of Arowana, > > Can you please suggest that how feasible is to keep such fishes & what > should be the size of tank for that? > > Your valuable suggestions are required. > > BR///Faisal > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<faisal.ashhraf@...?subject=Re%3A%20What%20should%20be%20size%20of%20Tank%20with%203%20different%20Pairs>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20What%20should%20be%20size%20of%20Tank%20with%203%20different%20Pairs>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcGVtM2xyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzU1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjM1ODM4Mw--?act=reply&messageNum=53355>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM25lamhoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjM1ODM4Mw--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53355;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZXB2c20wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzMzU1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjM1ODM4MwR0cGNJZAM1MzM1NQ-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZ2l1dTZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzIzNTgzODM-?o=6> > 8 > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOTRxZmdhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzIzNTgzODM-> > 1 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGh2NTI5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMjM1ODM4Mw--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53357	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs

it isn't. 3 huge tanks... or maybe ponds... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I want to keep following fishes in aquarium: > > > 1. Pair of Blue Line Sharks > 2. Pair of White Koi. > 3. Pair of Arowana, > > Can you please suggest that how feasible is to keep such fishes & what > should be the size of tank for that? > > > Your valuable suggestions are required. > > BR///Faisal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53358	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

Hi Dick, Thanks for your input-my comments regarding the labyrinth set up were entirely based on Goldfish behaviour as they love exploring tubes, nooks & crannies etc & have great memories but I bow to your superior knowledge regarding Bettas & Gouramis. I think we can all agree that the best shape for aquariums are 'boring' rectangles despite what exiting shapes the designers may offer us! John*<o)))< * On 21 March 2012 14:52, Dick Houston <houston@...> wrote: > ** > > > I hope changing the subject to more nearly reflect the comments I am going > to make is ok. I normally strip the previous emails from my responses but > felt in this case it was better to leave them. The so called labyrinth-the > 4th one down would be fatal to many of the fish shown in it. There appear > to > be several male Betta Splendens in various globes. (not a good idea � male > Betta Splendens fight and damage each other) The probability of a betta > getting into a lower globe is high. The probability of him remembering the > route back to the top is low. ( a dead betta for lack of air). The same > applies to the Dwarf Gouramies shone. No this art not practical for > labyrinth fish. > > A Servant of the Christ, > > Dick Houston > houston@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53359	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

Hi Ray (or others), I was following your advice on how to cycle an aquarium without fish and finally would have a few questions. I am using ammonia from Walmart (1/2 gallon size) that says ammonium hydroxide and surfactant for ingredients. How about the surfactants? Are they ok or how do I "clean" the aquarium at the end of the cycle? At the moment I still have a lot of nitrite while the ammonium cycle seems finished. How do I start the aquarium for fish once the cycling is complete, do I just change the total amount of water once, or twice or ? Are the surfactants negligible? How many fish could I add in the beginning that would be an equivalent to the ammonia amount I put in to reach 3-5 ppm in the beginning? I guess if I put in just 1-2 I loose most of the bacteria again? Or is it necessary to check if everything went right and just add 1-2 every few weeks? Thanks for your help! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53360	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

I just try to think how the designs will look once brown algae start covering it (or of the impossible task to get them off in the round balls ;) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Dick, > > Thanks for your input-my comments regarding the labyrinth set up were > entirely based on Goldfish behaviour as they love exploring tubes, nooks & > crannies etc & have great memories but I bow to your superior knowledge > regarding Bettas & Gouramis. I think we can all agree that the best shape > for aquariums are 'boring' rectangles despite what exiting shapes the > designers may offer us! > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 21 March 2012 14:52, Dick Houston <houston@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I hope changing the subject to more nearly reflect the comments I am going > > to make is ok. I normally strip the previous emails from my responses but > > felt in this case it was better to leave them. The so called labyrinth-the > > 4th one down would be fatal to many of the fish shown in it. There appear > > to > > be several male Betta Splendens in various globes. (not a good idea – male > > Betta Splendens fight and damage each other) The probability of a betta > > getting into a lower globe is high. The probability of him remembering the > > route back to the top is low. ( a dead betta for lack of air). The same > > applies to the Dwarf Gouramies shone. No this art not practical for > > labyrinth fish. > > > > A Servant of the Christ, > > > > Dick Houston > > houston@... > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53361	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

The fish are what, The Designer, has offered us... they don't need fancy boxes... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Dick, > > Thanks for your input-my comments regarding the labyrinth set up were > entirely based on Goldfish behaviour as they love exploring tubes, nooks & > crannies etc & have great memories but I bow to your superior knowledge > regarding Bettas & Gouramis. I think we can all agree that the best shape > for aquariums are 'boring' rectangles despite what exiting shapes the > designers may offer us! > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 21 March 2012 14:52, Dick Houston <houston@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I hope changing the subject to more nearly reflect the comments I am going > > to make is ok. I normally strip the previous emails from my responses but > > felt in this case it was better to leave them. The so called labyrinth-the > > 4th one down would be fatal to many of the fish shown in it. There appear > > to > > be several male Betta Splendens in various globes. (not a good idea – male > > Betta Splendens fight and damage each other) The probability of a betta > > getting into a lower globe is high. The probability of him remembering the > > route back to the top is low. ( a dead betta for lack of air). The same > > applies to the Dwarf Gouramies shone. No this art not practical for > > labyrinth fish. > > > > A Servant of the Christ, > > > > Dick Houston > > houston@... > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53362	From: Ray	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

Hi Nora, I regret to have to tell you, that despite what you may believe, you have not followed my advice. To begin with, although this has nothing to do with cycling a tank, I have no idea why you'd buy a half gallon of ammonia unless you have some household chores to use most of this on. Now, as for cycling your tank, you were specifically told to use only clear ammonia, with nothing else in it -- no additives, no nothing. You were also very specifically told not to use sudsy ammonia. Surfacants essentially act as soaps -- or the "sudsy" part of those ammonia solutions sold as "sudsy ammonia." Sudsy ammonia is unfit to use in cycling a tank for fish. I doubt very much if the water would be safe for any fish and there's no way you could even put a test fish in the tank to see if it were safe, if you wanted to -- not that I would recommend using any fish for such test purposes. But, under normal circumstances (using clear ammonia), you would need to change out a sufficient amount of water to reduce your nitrate to no more that 40 ppm. and then add fish, and or course discontinue adding any more ammonia. Then, so as not to starve out the nitrifying bacteria. you would need to add most of the fish you want to keep all at once. This would be after your nitrite stabilizes back to zero, which I see is still elevated. A fully stocked tank (not overstocked tank) of fish would produce in the vicinity of 3+ ppm ammonia, which a fully cycled tank would handle as converting it all the nitrate when the time came. You may need to do as much as a 60% or even as 70% PWC first, to get the nitrate below 40 ppm -- which will be building up all the time the nitrite converting bacteria phase of the cycle is being developed. With your using sudsy ammonia though, I'm not even sure if a 100% water change would be safe for the fish, with your filter being cycled using this additive. If anyone else (Dawn? Anyone?) here can recommend adding fish to cycled tank where sudsy ammonia has been used, I know that Nora would like to hear this, but I can't recommend it. I would suggest starting over again, after emptying the tank and starting with fresh filter media, as I just wouldn't want to take the chance of killing a whole complement of new fishes -- unless someone can state unequivocally otherwise, that it may be safe. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray (or others), > > I was following your advice on how to cycle an aquarium without fish and finally would have a few questions. > > I am using ammonia from Walmart (1/2 gallon size) that says ammonium hydroxide and surfactant for ingredients. > How about the surfactants? Are they ok or how do I "clean" the aquarium at the end of the cycle? > At the moment I still have a lot of nitrite while the ammonium cycle seems finished. How do I start the aquarium for fish once the cycling is complete, do I just change the total amount of water once, or twice or ? Are the surfactants negligible? > > How many fish could I add in the beginning that would be an equivalent to the ammonia amount I put in to reach 3-5 ppm in the beginning? I guess if I put in just 1-2 I loose most of the bacteria again? Or is it necessary to check if everything went right and just add 1-2 every few weeks? > > Thanks for your help! > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53363	From: joe t	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

I must admit that what I saw looked very interesting, BUT!! I would personally never use any of those tanks for my fish. They may look nice aesthetically and while uyou may not care for the fish and only want it to look nice that's fine. But if you care for your fish, you are going to have one hell of a time keeping the water parameters where they should be for whatever fish you are keeping. And to keep it clean???? That is going to be some feat. In my opinion, they look nice when they are new, but trying to keep them looking nice...you have a big job on your hands. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53364	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: What should be size of Tank with 3 different Pairs

As has already been mentioned here, none of those species can be kept together. The blue like shark, aka irridescent shark averages about 3+ ft long when full grown and if healthy should grow rather quickly (from 2 inch baby to 6 inches within the first 6 - 8 months). A pair of these sharks would need a tank at least double the length of their bodies for width so they are able to turn around, and the tank should be at least 3 times their length so they can do what they do best... pace the length of the tank. These animals are very active, very skittish, and very sensitive to water quality. They are also very dirty when they get beyond 6 inches in length, as they have a high level of waste output. Minimum # of gallons would be about 1000+ for a pair of them, but you should also know that these fish do not fare well when kept as a pair in their adult lives. They are shoaling fish as juveniles but solitary as adults. Arrowana, depends on what species you are talking about. The most popular tends to be the silver arrowana, which reach a length of over 6 ft as adults. I have seen a few as large as 7 ft. Arrowanas are very aggressive and keeping 2 of them together long term is also not a good idea, as they will fight until there is only one left and they will also compete aggressively for food, which often leaves 1 much smaller than the other and thus it tends to become food. There are a number of species of arrowana and not all get quite that large. The black arrowana, the other that is commonly found, will average around 3 - 3.5 ft in length full grown, so the tank size needed would be similar to that of the sharks mentioned above. There is no arrowana species compatible with the sharks. John has given some pretty good information about the koi so I won't repeat that here other than to say there are a lot of different dimensions that can be worked with to make up the size pond koi would need. Lastly I want to mention that the sharks and arrowanas are tropical fish, which means they need warm water (average temp 78F - 82F). Koi are cold water fish and need much lower water temperature through most of the year to keep them healthy and thriving. So overall, as was already suggested, you would need 3 very large tanks or ponds to keep all of those fish and pairing the sharks and arrowana with another of their own species is a bad idea. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I want to keep following fishes in aquarium: > > > 1. Pair of Blue Line Sharks > 2. Pair of White Koi. > 3. Pair of Arowana, > > Can you please suggest that how feasible is to keep such fishes & what > should be the size of tank for that? > > > Your valuable suggestions are required. > > BR///Faisal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53365	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/22/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

I think the main problem is that they have all been designed by people who do not keep fish. John*<o)))< * On 22 March 2012 13:51, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > I must admit that what I saw looked very interesting, BUT!! I would > personally never use any of those tanks for my fish. They may look nice > aesthetically and while uyou may not care for the fish and only want it to > look nice that's fine. But if you care for your fish, you are going to have > one hell of a time keeping the water parameters where they should be for > whatever fish you are keeping. And to keep it clean???? That is going to be > some feat. In my opinion, they look nice when they are new, but trying to > keep them looking nice...you have a big job on your hands. > > joe t > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53366	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

Hi Ray, well, I am glad I asked :) I remember you mentioned not using a certain type of ammonia solution but honestly had no idea what "sudsy" is ;) Since you had pointed out it should be "clear" then (I had thought as opposed to "milky" or something like that and thought "mine" to be clear in that way) I thought it might be ok... My husband had also mentioned he had not seen any other type in the store. But, yes, makes perfectly sense now! At least I might have a very clean tank now (despite a lot of bacteria....:) I just wonder that the bacteria do not mind the soap part? But I remember now also that I read in the past that a bar of soap (not antibacterial soap) is often overloaded with bacteria and not at all "clean". That brings me back to my original old question: where do you get "pure" ammonia? A special drugstore or grocery store? Did we just look in the wrong store and usually it is commonly available? I mentioned the "half gallon" because I hoped you might be familiar with the type of bottle we bought, it is labeled in big letters as just "ammonia" but obviously it is not "just" that. Fortunately the cycling until now was so little work that I do not mind starting again. I guess I will put the whole tank outside and flush it out with a garden hose several times ..... Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I regret to have to tell you, that despite what you may believe, you have not followed my advice. To begin with, although this has nothing to do with cycling a tank, I have no idea why you'd buy a half gallon of ammonia unless you have some household chores to use most of this on. > > Now, as for cycling your tank, you were specifically told to use only clear ammonia, with nothing else in it -- no additives, no nothing. You were also very specifically told not to use sudsy ammonia. Surfacants essentially act as soaps -- or the "sudsy" part of those ammonia solutions sold as "sudsy ammonia." Sudsy ammonia is unfit to use in cycling a tank for fish. I doubt very much if the water would be safe for any fish and there's no way you could even put a test fish in the tank to see if it were safe, if you wanted to -- not that I would recommend using any fish for such test purposes. But, under normal circumstances (using clear ammonia), you would need to change out a sufficient amount of water to reduce your nitrate to no more that 40 ppm. and then add fish, and or course discontinue adding any more ammonia. Then, so as not to starve out the nitrifying bacteria. you would need to add most of the fish you want to keep all at once. This would be after your nitrite stabilizes back to zero, which I see is still elevated. > > A fully stocked tank (not overstocked tank) of fish would produce in the vicinity of 3+ ppm ammonia, which a fully cycled tank would handle as converting it all the nitrate when the time came. You may need to do as much as a 60% or even as 70% PWC first, to get the nitrate below 40 ppm -- which will be building up all the time the nitrite converting bacteria phase of the cycle is being developed. With your using sudsy ammonia though, I'm not even sure if a 100% water change would be safe for the fish, with your filter being cycled using this additive. If anyone else (Dawn? Anyone?) here can recommend adding fish to cycled tank where sudsy ammonia has been used, I know that Nora would like to hear this, but I can't recommend it. > > I would suggest starting over again, after emptying the tank and starting with fresh filter media, as I just wouldn't want to take the chance of killing a whole complement of new fishes -- unless someone can state unequivocally otherwise, that it may be safe. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray (or others), > > > > I was following your advice on how to cycle an aquarium without fish and finally would have a few questions. > > > > I am using ammonia from Walmart (1/2 gallon size) that says ammonium hydroxide and surfactant for ingredients. > > How about the surfactants? Are they ok or how do I "clean" the aquarium at the end of the cycle? > > At the moment I still have a lot of nitrite while the ammonium cycle seems finished. How do I start the aquarium for fish once the cycling is complete, do I just change the total amount of water once, or twice or ? Are the surfactants negligible? > > > > How many fish could I add in the beginning that would be an equivalent to the ammonia amount I put in to reach 3-5 ppm in the beginning? I guess if I put in just 1-2 I loose most of the bacteria again? Or is it necessary to check if everything went right and just add 1-2 every few weeks? > > > > Thanks for your help! > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53367	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

Nora, One of our former members suggested urine. But I will yield to whatever advice Ray offers up on that :) Mike G -----Original Message----- From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 12:35 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions Hi Ray, well, I am glad I asked :) I remember you mentioned not using a certain type of ammonia solution but honestly had no idea what "sudsy" is ;) Since you had pointed out it should be "clear" then (I had thought as opposed to "milky" or something like that and thought "mine" to be clear in that way) I thought it might be ok... My husband had also mentioned he had not seen any other type in the store. But, yes, makes perfectly sense now! At least I might have a very clean tank now (despite a lot of bacteria....:) I just wonder that the bacteria do not mind the soap part? But I remember now also that I read in the past that a bar of soap (not antibacterial soap) is often overloaded with bacteria and not at all "clean". That brings me back to my original old question: where do you get "pure" ammonia? A special drugstore or grocery store? Did we just look in the wrong store and usually it is commonly available? I mentioned the "half gallon" because I hoped you might be familiar with the type of bottle we bought, it is labeled in big letters as just "ammonia" but obviously it is not "just" that. Fortunately the cycling until now was so little work that I do not mind starting again. I guess I will put the whole tank outside and flush it out with a garden hose several times ..... Thanks again, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53368	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

Is that a challenge John? All plan drawings must be submitted by April 1. to have a chance at the grand prize. :-)>>> - -- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I think the main problem is that they have all been designed by people who > do not keep fish. > > John*<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53369	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

I think you might be able to get the plain ammonia from a hardware store, I've never bought it myself, but I think that's where it was mentioned being available. You might call a couple hardware stores before you run out shopping, just to see if they have it in stock. Amber On 3/22/2012 11:13 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > well, I am glad I asked :) > I remember you mentioned not using a certain type of ammonia solution > but honestly had no idea what "sudsy" is ;) Since you had pointed out > it should be "clear" then (I had thought as opposed to "milky" or > something like that and thought "mine" to be clear in that way) I > thought it might be ok... My husband had also mentioned he had not > seen any other type in the store. > But, yes, makes perfectly sense now! > > At least I might have a very clean tank now (despite a lot of > bacteria....:) I just wonder that the bacteria do not mind the soap > part? But I remember now also that I read in the past that a bar of > soap (not antibacterial soap) is often overloaded with bacteria and > not at all "clean". > > That brings me back to my original old question: where do you get > "pure" ammonia? A special drugstore or grocery store? Did we just look > in the wrong store and usually it is commonly available? > I mentioned the "half gallon" because I hoped you might be familiar > with the type of bottle we bought, it is labeled in big letters as > just "ammonia" but obviously it is not "just" that. > > Fortunately the cycling until now was so little work that I do not > mind starting again. > I guess I will put the whole tank outside and flush it out with a > garden hose several times ..... > > Thanks again, > Nora ~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~ end group email --> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53370	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Art aquariums

Hi Al, I would love to see an aquarium that is more interesting for us to look at than the humble rectangle but it has to be practical, easy to maintain & most importantly the fish have to enjoy living in it-design away!! John*<o)))< * On 23 March 2012 12:04, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Is that a challenge John? > All plan drawings must be submitted by > April 1. to have a chance at the grand prize. > :-)>>> > - > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53371	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

That's what I did when I set up my 100 gallon back in 2009-worked a treat & it cycled almost immediately, cheaper than ammonia too!! John*<o)))< * On 23 March 2012 08:37, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > ** > > > Nora, > > One of our former members suggested urine. > But I will yield to whatever advice Ray offers up on that :) > > Mike G > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53372	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/23/2012
Subject: Re: Cycling aquarium without fish - questions

Thanks, I think I try that! Nots --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I think you might be able to get the plain ammonia from a hardware > store, I've never bought it myself, but I think that's where it was > mentioned being available. You might call a couple hardware stores > before you run out shopping, just to see if they have it in stock. > > Amber > > On 3/22/2012 11:13 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > well, I am glad I asked :) > > I remember you mentioned not using a certain type of ammonia solution > > but honestly had no idea what "sudsy" is ;) Since you had pointed out > > it should be "clear" then (I had thought as opposed to "milky" or > > something like that and thought "mine" to be clear in that way) I > > thought it might be ok... My husband had also mentioned he had not > > seen any other type in the store. > > But, yes, makes perfectly sense now! > > > > At least I might have a very clean tank now (despite a lot of > > bacteria....:) I just wonder that the bacteria do not mind the soap > > part? But I remember now also that I read in the past that a bar of > > soap (not antibacterial soap) is often overloaded with bacteria and > > not at all "clean". > > > > That brings me back to my original old question: where do you get > > "pure" ammonia? A special drugstore or grocery store? Did we just look > > in the wrong store and usually it is commonly available? > > I mentioned the "half gallon" because I hoped you might be familiar > > with the type of bottle we bought, it is labeled in big letters as > > just "ammonia" but obviously it is not "just" that. > > > > Fortunately the cycling until now was so little work that I do not > > mind starting again. > > I guess I will put the whole tank outside and flush it out with a > > garden hose several times ..... > > > > Thanks again, > > Nora ~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~ end group email --> > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53373	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/26/2012
Subject: care for aquatic plants

Hi all, I would have a general question for those with live plants in the aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. Thanks a lot for care advice! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53374	From: vishwanath preetham	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants

Hi Nora, I've have had a ten gallon tank with lots of plant in it successfully for years. All i had was an external filter and 2 Watts per gallon lighting (CFL 6500K Color temp) for 8 hours a day and PH around 7. Occasionally I've used few drops of Tetra Flora Pride only when i find the plant with symptoms of deficiency Thanks Preetham ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] care for aquatic plants   Hi all, I would have a general question for those with live plants in the aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. Thanks a lot for care advice! Nora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53375	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants

Hi Nora, I have tried Cabomba before & it looks great but my naughty Comets destroyed it all in a couple of days just like they do with my Pennywort. Right now I have Anacharis, Vallis & Hornwort, the Anacharis & Hornwort don't need planting as such because they grow fine by just floating around the tank but I have anchored several stems of Anacharis into clay pots with pebbles & I secure the stands of Hornwort under large pebbles so they look nice & neat as they grow upwards rather than clogging up my inlet weirs. My Vallis is planted in a variety of clay pots from small 6 inch diameter ones to a large 14 inch long square planter. I took advice from Dawn about trimming the roots of this plant & it has now shot up. I would guess many of the leaves are over 2 feet long & trail along the surface in the current from my outfall nozzles which looks very nice & natural. It also gives great cover for my fish as well as giving the tank varied decor at all depths. The Vallis is planted in a mixture of fine sandy gravel & TetraPlant growing media topped-off with pebbles or marbles. I have to cover it because if I leave the bare growing substrate the fish dig it all out in a day-they cannot get though the pebbles although they frequently try. I have added a couple of pictures to my 'John's Plants' photo album showing the progress at 12th Dec last year & 27th Feb, I will add another tonight if I remember as the growth is incredible I am so happy with it & the fish love it now. If you look at my earlier photos you can see just how much my plants have come on. I guess a little of the fish waste will fall onto the surface of the pots & act as fertiliser but not much I don't think because when I do a gravel vac which is a couple of times per week there is almost no waste in the old water as my filters are really powerful & get rid of everything in the water column. I don't use any CO2 either. My lighting is 2 x lots of a regular 39W Arcadia T5 Plant pro + 39W Arcadia T5 Original Tropical Pro as I think this combination gives a nice spectrum similar to real daylight. The lights are on for 7 hours per day but the room is very light & airy anyway. John*<o)))< * On 27 March 2012 10:14, vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Nora, > > I've have had a ten gallon tank with lots of plant in it successfully for > years. All i had was an external filter and 2� Watts per gallon lighting > (CFL 6500K Color > temp)� for 8 hours a day and PH around 7. Occasionally I've used few drops > of Tetra Flora Pride only when i find the plant with symptoms of deficiency > > Thanks > Preetham > > ________________________________ > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] care for aquatic plants > > > � > Hi all, > > I would have a general question for those with live plants in the > aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish > waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? > > I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name > (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) > Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new > and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. > I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. > > Thanks a lot for care advice! > > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53376	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants

It rather depends upon the specific aquarium. Plants need 17 nutrients and sufficient light in order to photosynthesize. Most of the nutrients will be present in the aquarium from various sources; some in the tap water (calcium, magnesium, potassium and perhaps others, depending upon the hardness), some via fish foods, and some naturally occur (hydrogen from water, oxygen, and carbon via CO2). Plants will grow (photosynthesize) if these are all present and the light is of sufficient intensity, up to the point where something is no longer available. Light is the single most imortant aspect, and over a 10g the best and least expensive light is incandescent (screw-in bulbs) using compact fluorescent (CFL) Daylight bulbs with a kelvin of 6500K or thereabouts. Two 10w bulbs will be adequate. You can by these in hardware-type stores; I happen to use GE and they work very well. Fast growing plants and floating plants require more nutrients than other plants simply because they are growing faster and using more. Stem plants are fast growing. Adding nutrients via a complete liquid fertilizer is easy to ensure everything is present, but it may not be necessary. The fish load determines how much food is getting into the tank, plus the water hardness as mentioned earlier, replenished during the water change. My recommendations for a general fertilizer is Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement or Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti. These two contain most all essential nutrients and in proportion to the plants' needs. CO2 is the one variable. It occurs naturally from fish and plant respiratino, but much more comes from the breakdown of waste organics in the substrate. I never touch my substrates, as this is a valuable source of many nutrients and especially CO2. Most advocate not running airstones (unless part of the filter) as this causes a faster release of CO2 from the water. Hope this helps. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would have a general question for those with live plants in the aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? > > I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) > Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. > I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. > > Thanks a lot for care advice! > > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53377	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/27/2012
Subject: John's Plants

Hi Everyone, I have uploaded several photos to my 'John's Plants' folder that I took today in a sub-folder dated 27th March. I have captioned the pictures so you can see what order the plants are in. Once they are approved compare today's views with those of even just a month ago & you can see the incredible growth. From lots of trial & error I have found that the 3 types of plant that are virtually 'Goldfish proof' are what I have now-Hornwort, Vallis & Anacharis. Several years ago my fish would uproot & destroy anything green that went into the tank including these hardy plant types but now they seem to ignore them largely although if they were not secured down they would rip them up. As it is I often have to reset the Hornwort as they can easily move the large pebbles holding them down-usually during breeding frenzy which is around once a week so they keep my work cut out for me. In an ideal world I would love to grow these plants directly from the gravel/substrate but I don't think that is possible with Carps-too boisterous but this is a nice compromise-my tank is almost perfect now, I just need to add a large piece of bogwood that I am still soaking because it has not stopped leeching out tannin yet & the hardness in the tub is not yet equal to my tank. John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53378	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

It seems that Yahoo! cannot cope with something as basic as sub-folders so not to confuse anyone [myself included] I have simply put everything I mentioned in my last post into my 'John's Plants' folder but unfortunately we will again have to wait for them to be approved by the moderators so my apologies to them for that & to everyone for the hassle. John<o)))< --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I have uploaded several photos to my 'John's Plants' folder that I took > today in a sub-folder dated 27th March. I have captioned the pictures so > you can see what order the plants are in. Once they are approved compare > today's views with those of even just a month ago & you can see the > incredible growth. From lots of trial & error I have found that the 3 types > of plant that are virtually 'Goldfish proof' are what I have now-Hornwort, > Vallis & Anacharis. Several years ago my fish would uproot & destroy > anything green that went into the tank including these hardy plant types > but now they seem to ignore them largely although if they were not secured > down they would rip them up. As it is I often have to reset the Hornwort as > they can easily move the large pebbles holding them down-usually during > breeding frenzy which is around once a week so they keep my work cut out > for me. > > In an ideal world I would love to grow these plants directly from the > gravel/substrate but I don't think that is possible with Carps-too > boisterous but this is a nice compromise-my tank is almost perfect now, I > just need to add a large piece of bogwood that I am still soaking because > it has not stopped leeching out tannin yet & the hardness in the tub is not > yet equal to my tank. > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53379	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Beta Fishes keep dying

three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. Next fish: six months. Next fish: Two month Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... What am I doing wrong?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53380	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

To help answer your question we are going to need a little more information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with vials, they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you clean it? How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change each time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. Such as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything you can see that's abnormal. Amber On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > Next fish: six months. > Next fish: Two month > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > What am I doing wrong? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53381	From: harry perry	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

What kind of filter are you running. With out a filter the fish is living in it's own waste.  If your constantly changing the water in the tank the tank hasn't cycled. Are you de-chlorinating the added water?. Did you test the water?. What are the test results?. Harry ________________________________ From: magicalbookworm <magicalbookworm@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 10:23 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Beta Fishes keep dying   three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. Next fish: six months. Next fish: Two month Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... What am I doing wrong? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53382	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean fake plants... etc. He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > To help answer your question we are going to need a little more > information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. > Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with vials, > they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test > results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. > Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you > clean it? > How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change each > time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? > Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? > Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to > describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. Such > as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything > you can see that's abnormal. > > Amber > > On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > > > Next fish: six months. > > Next fish: Two month > > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53383	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

I don't recommend 100% water changes personally, this is a lot of stress on the fish and can cause health problems from the shock. By the symptoms it sounds like it has swim bladder problems (which can be caused from your 100% water change, as well as over-feeding which causes bloating and constipation in bettas very easily). Sometimes they can recover without anything needed. Sometimes they never recover. You can use Epsom salts to do a quick bath for the betta, it helps ease constipation. You will have to use google to find the amounts to use for the epsom salt treatment, as I do not remember off-hand. Amber On 3/28/2012 7:06 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I > asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was > great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a > few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well > for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean > fake plants... etc. > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started > swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and > couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he > looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. > Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > To help answer your question we are going to need a little more > > information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. > > Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with > vials, > > they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test > > results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. > > Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you > > clean it? > > How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change > each > > time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? > > Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? > > Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to > > describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. Such > > as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything > > you can see that's abnormal. > > > > Amber > > > > On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > > > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > > > > > Next fish: six months. > > > Next fish: Two month > > > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > > > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53384	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/28/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

I haven't changed this fishes water at all. But him in the small tank i have to get rid of the blue water, then moved him to the big tank. He's ate only a few tiny flakes for the past few days, so I don't think he's been over feed. Sadly my computer isn't letting me use any search engines right now. (no clue what's wrong with that!) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I don't recommend 100% water changes personally, this is a lot of stress > on the fish and can cause health problems from the shock. By the > symptoms it sounds like it has swim bladder problems (which can be > caused from your 100% water change, as well as over-feeding which causes > bloating and constipation in bettas very easily). > Sometimes they can recover without anything needed. Sometimes they never > recover. You can use Epsom salts to do a quick bath for the betta, it > helps ease constipation. You will have to use google to find the amounts > to use for the epsom salt treatment, as I do not remember off-hand. > > Amber > > On 3/28/2012 7:06 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I > > asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was > > great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a > > few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well > > for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean > > fake plants... etc. > > > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started > > swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and > > couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he > > looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. > > Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > To help answer your question we are going to need a little more > > > information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. > > > Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with > > vials, > > > they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test > > > results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. > > > Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you > > > clean it? > > > How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change > > each > > > time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? > > > Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? > > > Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to > > > describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. Such > > > as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything > > > you can see that's abnormal. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > > > > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > > > > > > > Next fish: six months. > > > > Next fish: Two month > > > > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > > > > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > > > > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53385	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Hi, Bettas are not my strong point but you might find this link useful: http://nippyfish.net/ The navigation takes a little getting used to but hover your cursor over 'BETTAS 101' the drop-down menu gives you 'ALL ABOUT WATER' & you should find some helpful info there. John*<o)))< * On 29 March 2012 04:39, magicalbookworm <magicalbookworm@...> wrote: > ** > > > I haven't changed this fishes water at all. But him in the small tank i > have to get rid of the blue water, then moved him to the big tank. He's ate > only a few tiny flakes for the past few days, so I don't think he's been > over feed. > > Sadly my computer isn't letting me use any search engines right now. (no > clue what's wrong with that!) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I don't recommend 100% water changes personally, this is a lot of stress > > on the fish and can cause health problems from the shock. By the > > symptoms it sounds like it has swim bladder problems (which can be > > caused from your 100% water change, as well as over-feeding which causes > > bloating and constipation in bettas very easily). > > Sometimes they can recover without anything needed. Sometimes they never > > recover. You can use Epsom salts to do a quick bath for the betta, it > > helps ease constipation. You will have to use google to find the amounts > > to use for the epsom salt treatment, as I do not remember off-hand. > > > > Amber > > > > On 3/28/2012 7:06 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > > > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I > > > asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was > > > great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a > > > few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > > > > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well > > > for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean > > > fake plants... etc. > > > > > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started > > > swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and > > > couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > > > > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he > > > looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. > > > Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > To help answer your question we are going to need a little more > > > > information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. > > > > Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with > > > vials, > > > > they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test > > > > results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. > > > > Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you > > > > clean it? > > > > How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change > > > each > > > > time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? > > > > Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? > > > > Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to > > > > describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. > Such > > > > as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything > > > > you can see that's abnormal. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > > > > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > > > > > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > > > > > > > > > Next fish: six months. > > > > > Next fish: Two month > > > > > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > > > > > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > > > > > > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53386	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

OK, the GOOD thing is that you let the water sit in a jug. The BAD thing is that you clean the tank, rocks, decorations, etc so thoroughly. You are literally killing them with kindness. Best advice I ever heard: In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water. The others will talk to you of water testing -- nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc. It makes my head spin. The bottom line is that every time you change the water completely and/or clean the tank so thoroughly, the water has to "cycle" again. "Cycling" is a complex biological process in which the water turns toxic before it becomes a suitable environment. That's why your Bettas get sick and die. So long complicated story short... don't do that. Instead, continue to use water that has sat in a jug but never change more than half of the water at a time. A good way to vacuum the bottom of the tank is to use a length of air hose rubber banded to something like a chopstick (so you can aim it well and don't have to stick your hand in the water) to siphon the debris off the bottom of the tank. Then replenish the water from the jug. Just add water to the jug after you do. Don't dump it out, clean it and start from scratch each time. The water in there is cycling too. Let it. And yes, Bettas can be surface breathers -- but they live longer happier lives if you put in a bubbler or filter of some sort. ~Kai > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean fake plants... etc. > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53387	From: magicalbookworm	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

How long should you let a tank cycle for? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > OK, the GOOD thing is that you let the water sit in a jug. > > The BAD thing is that you clean the tank, rocks, decorations, etc so thoroughly. You are literally killing them with kindness. > > Best advice I ever heard: > In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water. > > The others will talk to you of water testing -- nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc. It makes my head spin. The bottom line is that every time you change the water completely and/or clean the tank so thoroughly, the water has to "cycle" again. "Cycling" is a complex biological process in which the water turns toxic before it becomes a suitable environment. That's why your Bettas get sick and die. So long complicated story short... don't do that. > > Instead, continue to use water that has sat in a jug but never change more than half of the water at a time. A good way to vacuum the bottom of the tank is to use a length of air hose rubber banded to something like a chopstick (so you can aim it well and don't have to stick your hand in the water) to siphon the debris off the bottom of the tank. Then replenish the water from the jug. > > Just add water to the jug after you do. Don't dump it out, clean it and start from scratch each time. The water in there is cycling too. Let it. > > And yes, Bettas can be surface breathers -- but they live longer happier lives if you put in a bubbler or filter of some sort. > ~Kai > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean fake plants... etc. > > > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53388	From: Ray	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Hello Magical . . . or Bookworm . . . or . . . ?(please sign your messages; you have not signed a single post since you started this thread), Just as Amber asked, I would similarly ask; Do you use a dechloraminator? -- but I notice your reply to Amber was that you let the water sit in a jug for a few weeks (and let the water sit in the tank for a while before adding fish). While letting the water sit in a jug for a few weeks, or even just a few days, will surely see to it that any chlorine will be long gone, but more and more water suppliers are switching from chlorine to chloramine today. As such, you could let the water sit in a jug for a few months, yet the chloramine will still be in the water ready to kill your fish as it breaks down extremely slowly -- and likewise, with the water in your tank, the chloramine in it will kill your fish too, unless you use a dechloraminator; a water conditioner which breaks the bond between the compound of the chlorine and the ammonia that water companies are now adding to their water. Without neutralizing this chloramine and having the locked up ammonia converted to harmless ammonium by a water conditioner, your tank will never cycle for starters, as this compound is toxic to all life-forms including nitrifying bacteria. Fish don't live very long in this water either. Without testing your water, you (and us) will have no idea what harmful chemicals may be in your water, or if your water is even suitable for the fish you want to maintain in it. And, BTW, you can't believe everything that's told to you by PetSmart employees as they may not necessarily have much training in tropical fish. Then too, while your area's tap water may be great to use for tropical fish -- as the people at PetSmart have told you -- they may have told you this assuming that you already know to use a water conditioner to neutralize any chloramine now being added to the water. Ray -- Moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "magicalbookworm" <magicalbookworm@...> wrote: > > > I never tested the water with my first fish that lived for 2 years. I asked and the fish people at Petsmart said that the area's water was great to use just tap water :\ I do let the water sit in a jug for a few weeks and let the tank sit a while before adding the fish. > > No filter system. I normally clean the tank once a week. Worked well for the first fish. I empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean fake plants... etc. > > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this after noon he started swimming side ways. He'd go for air at the top of the tank and couldn't get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive into the rocks. > > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins or body, truthfully he looked to be the best fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of the tank. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > To help answer your question we are going to need a little more > > information to help us trouble-shoot the issues. > > Do you happen to have a test kit (preferably the liquid kind with vials, > > they are the the most accurate), if you do we could use your test > > results for pH, Nitrites, Ammonia, and Nitrates. > > Do you use a filter of some sort on the tank? If so how often do you > > clean it? > > How often do you do water changes, and how much water do you change each > > time? Do you use a De-chlorinator product for water changes? > > Do you vacuum clean the gravel? If so how often? > > Does the fish have any visible indication of illness? Please try to > > describe any visible signs, or physical signs as well as you can. Such > > as swimming strangely (upside down, etc), fuzzy fins, spots, anything > > you can see that's abnormal. > > > > Amber > > > > On 3/28/2012 6:23 PM, magicalbookworm wrote: > > > > > > three years ago I bought my first beta fish. Got a 2.5 tank with a > > > light and a air pump. that fish lived for two years. > > > > > > Next fish: six months. > > > Next fish: Two month > > > Next fish: (bought a heater) One month. > > > Next fish: Currently acting sick and pretty much dying... > > > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53389	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

All this jabber about some fish and NO ONE has said anything about the subject about the subject's name. Betas are a species of the Onion plant. Beta is the second letter in the Latin numerical alphabet. Calling this fish a 'beta' is really stupid!! There are 2 T's in BETTA and the species is not a Beta! Charles Harrison -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53390	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/29/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

There is so much good information in this last post. The good bacteria lives in the substrata and on the walls of the glass cage. Nature changes water, She doesn't scrub the rocks, etc. On the other hand, the technical parts need addressing as well. I can't say " That's why your Bettas get sick" but it may be a major part of it all. The fish may have had a problem before they were introduced into the glass cage. ~Kai's information below is extremely important and worthwhile for the small glass cage. Think about it and try to implement "just changing the water" Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > The BAD thing is that you clean the tank, >rocks, decorations, etc so thoroughly. You are >literally killing them with kindness. >> >> Best advice I ever heard: >> In order to be a keeper of fish, you must first be a keeper of water. >> > > The others will talk to you of water testing >-- nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, etc. It makes >my head spin. The bottom line is that every >time you change the water completely and/or >clean the tank so thoroughly, the water has to >"cycle" again. "Cycling" is a complex >biological process in which the water turns >toxic before it becomes a suitable environment. >That's why your Bettas get sick and die. So >long complicated story short... don't do that. > > >> Instead, continue to use water that has sat in >>a jug but never change more than half of the >>water at a time. A good way to vacuum the >>bottom of the tank is to use a length of air >>hose rubber banded to something like a >>chopstick (so you can aim it well and don't >>have to stick your hand in the water) to siphon >>the debris off the bottom of the tank. Then >>replenish the water from the jug. >> >> Just add water to the jug after you do. Don't >>dump it out, clean it and start from scratch >>each time. The water in there is cycling too. >>Let it. >> >> And yes, Bettas can be surface breathers -- >>but they live longer happier lives if you put >>in a bubbler or filter of some sort. > > ~Kai >> >> >> >> >> > "magicalbookworm" wrote: >> > >> > I never tested the water with my first fish >>that lived for 2 years. I asked and the fish >>people at Petsmart said that the area's water >>was great to use just tap water :\ I do let the >>water sit in a jug for a few weeks and let the >>tank sit a while before adding the fish. >> > >> > No filter system. I normally clean the tank >>once a week. Worked well for the first fish. I >>empty all the water, clean the rocks out, clean >>fake plants... etc. >> > >> > He was fine monday and tuesday, but this >>after noon he started swimming side ways. He'd >>go for air at the top of the tank and couldn't >>get back down, then when he did he'd nose dive >>into the rocks. >> > >> > He looks healthy, no weird marks on his fins >>or body, truthfully he looked to be the best >>fish on the shelf when I bought him Monday. >>Right now the fish is sitting at the bottom of >>the tank. > > > -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53391	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Until it's done cycling. :o) That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. ~Kai > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53392	From: kuradi8	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Replying to myself, I said: > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > Unless you've neglected your tank for months on end and/or have horribly over-stocked your tank, the old "dirty" water really isn't that dirty. The new water that will need to cycle is probably more toxic. So don't be afraid to leave the old water in and to keep your water changes to a minimum. ~Kai > Kai wrote: > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > ~Kai > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53393	From: kbgwp	Date: 3/30/2012
Subject: Freshwater live sand

With all of the recent talk about cycling tanks, I remembered an old idea I had about producing live sand or gravel for freshwater aquariums. My plan was to cycle the substrate using ammonia to simulate the fish waste. The pre-cycled gravel or sand could then be used to seed a newly set up aquarium and shorten or eliminate the waiting period for the tank to cycle. A similar set up was planed to pre-cycle filter pads (either specific types or a universal insert) for use in new tanks. I never got further than the testing stage of this idea but I expected to be able to set up tanks for myself or others and add fish the same day and have them live. This might not work but, in my mind, all you would be changing was the glass and pumps. Especially if you brought your own water (treated and aged). If you are only talking a 10 or 20 gallon tank, I think that would be possible. I may never actually try this idea again but, from what I did do, it was a fun experiment that gave me a chance to play with my test kit without risking any fish. Plastic storage totes made cheap test tanks. Brian in PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53394	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants

Thanks for all the infos! It seems our plants might be fine without doing too much, I will just wait and see then. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I have tried Cabomba before & it looks great but my naughty Comets > destroyed it all in a couple of days just like they do with my Pennywort. > Right now I have Anacharis, Vallis & Hornwort, the Anacharis & Hornwort > don't need planting as such because they grow fine by just floating around > the tank but I have anchored several stems of Anacharis into clay pots with > pebbles & I secure the stands of Hornwort under large pebbles so they look > nice & neat as they grow upwards rather than clogging up my inlet weirs. My > Vallis is planted in a variety of clay pots from small 6 inch diameter ones > to a large 14 inch long square planter. I took advice from Dawn about > trimming the roots of this plant & it has now shot up. I would guess many > of the leaves are over 2 feet long & trail along the surface in the current > from my outfall nozzles which looks very nice & natural. It also gives > great cover for my fish as well as giving the tank varied decor at all > depths. The Vallis is planted in a mixture of fine sandy gravel & > TetraPlant growing media topped-off with pebbles or marbles. I have to > cover it because if I leave the bare growing substrate the fish dig it all > out in a day-they cannot get though the pebbles although they frequently > try. I have added a couple of pictures to my 'John's Plants' photo album > showing the progress at 12th Dec last year & 27th Feb, I will add another > tonight if I remember as the growth is incredible I am so happy with it & > the fish love it now. If you look at my earlier photos you can see just how > much my plants have come on. I guess a little of the fish waste will fall > onto the surface of the pots & act as fertiliser but not much I don't think > because when I do a gravel vac which is a couple of times per week there is > almost no waste in the old water as my filters are really powerful & get > rid of everything in the water column. I don't use any CO2 either. My > lighting is 2 x lots of a regular 39W Arcadia T5 Plant pro + 39W Arcadia T5 > Original Tropical Pro as I think this combination gives a nice spectrum > similar to real daylight. The lights are on for 7 hours per day but the > room is very light & airy anyway. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 27 March 2012 10:14, vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > I've have had a ten gallon tank with lots of plant in it successfully for > > years. All i had was an external filter and 2Â Watts per gallon lighting > > (CFL 6500K Color > > temp)Â for 8 hours a day and PH around 7. Occasionally I've used few drops > > of Tetra Flora Pride only when i find the plant with symptoms of deficiency > > > > Thanks > > Preetham > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:30 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] care for aquatic plants > > > > > > Â > > Hi all, > > > > I would have a general question for those with live plants in the > > aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish > > waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? > > > > I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name > > (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) > > Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new > > and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. > > I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. > > > > Thanks a lot for care advice! > > > > Nora > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53395	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: care for aquatic plants

Hi, I guess I take it easy then and see how everything goes without my interference... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, vishwanath preetham <vpreeth666us@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I've have had a ten gallon tank with lots of plant in it successfully for years. All i had was an external filter and 2 Watts per gallon lighting (CFL 6500K Color > temp) for 8 hours a day and PH around 7. Occasionally I've used few drops of Tetra Flora Pride only when i find the plant with symptoms of deficiency > > Thanks > Preetham > > > ________________________________ > From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:30 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] care for aquatic plants > > >   > Hi all, > > I would have a general question for those with live plants in the aquarium. Do your plants just get their nutrition from your fish (fish waste/food) or do you additionally add Co2 and plant nutrient? > > I have a 10 G tank with wisteria, cabomba, and one plant I forgot the name (lidellia or so? green with rather round leaves...) > Until now I did not feed the plants but two of the plants are rather new and I am not sure how they will do if I do nothing. > I have an airstone in the tank and gravel. > > Thanks a lot for care advice! > > Nora > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53396	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Hi Kai, I got a little confused when I read your comments about cycling. I thought I understood until now it will take several weeks to cycle a tank independent of the size? Because it is smaller does that not just mean there is more waste per gallon of water (that maybe triggers a faster grow of bacteria) but still one has to wait out first the ammonia and then the nitrite cycle? And how does the water in the jug cycle? Is it not supposed to be "clean" and is missing the food for the bacteria to grow? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > ~Kai > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53397	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

wow, your plants really have grown a lot in the last pictures!! What did you do with the roots to make them shoot up like this? Was that the only change? I am sorry if I missed the story behind it... Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I have uploaded several photos to my 'John's Plants' folder that I took > today in a sub-folder dated 27th March. I have captioned the pictures so > you can see what order the plants are in. Once they are approved compare > today's views with those of even just a month ago & you can see the > incredible growth. From lots of trial & error I have found that the 3 types > of plant that are virtually 'Goldfish proof' are what I have now-Hornwort, > Vallis & Anacharis. Several years ago my fish would uproot & destroy > anything green that went into the tank including these hardy plant types > but now they seem to ignore them largely although if they were not secured > down they would rip them up. As it is I often have to reset the Hornwort as > they can easily move the large pebbles holding them down-usually during > breeding frenzy which is around once a week so they keep my work cut out > for me. > > In an ideal world I would love to grow these plants directly from the > gravel/substrate but I don't think that is possible with Carps-too > boisterous but this is a nice compromise-my tank is almost perfect now, I > just need to add a large piece of bogwood that I am still soaking because > it has not stopped leeching out tannin yet & the hardness in the tub is not > yet equal to my tank. > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53398	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: how to clean gravel among plants?

Hi again, regarding our plants in our 10G tank: how do you clean the gravel around the plants that are planted directly into the gravel? I usually cleaned only the other half of the tank so I do not disturb and uproot the plants. But now I added a little glass bowl filled with gravel with another plant and there is hardly any free space on the bottom of the aquarium that I can access easily. Our gravel layer is not very thick (between 1-2 inches), do I NEED to vacuum clean it regularly or can I just let it be? I wonder if I should plant all the plants in glass containers so I can move them around for the cleaning of the areas in between. The plants formed roots in the gravel but they are not anchored very securely yet and even careful cleaning around them makes them float away... Thanks for advice how it is or should be done! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53399	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

The water in the jug won't be cycling while it is sitting. It's just releasing any excess gasses that are in the water (such as chlorine, but unfortunately this won't work for chloramines as they take weeks to dissipate from water). Amber On 3/30/2012 11:03 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi Kai, > > I got a little confused when I read your comments about cycling. > I thought I understood until now it will take several weeks to cycle a > tank independent of the size? Because it is smaller does that not just > mean there is more waste per gallon of water (that maybe triggers a > faster grow of bacteria) but still one has to wait out first the > ammonia and then the nitrite cycle? > And how does the water in the jug cycle? Is it not supposed to be > "clean" and is missing the food for the bacteria to grow? > > Thanks, Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g > Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the > water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" > water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates > the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what > gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically > because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by > the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most > 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that > slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or > decorations is a GOOD thing. > > > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining > the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test > unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank > cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half > the water at a time." > > > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53400	From: Ray	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Kai, In reading through your replies on this topic, I need to tell you that cycling does not depend on the size of the tank, but instead, the degree/amount of organic waste per volume (any volume, but most often litre is used, when the amount of waste is expressed in mg's) of water, as stated in ppm's; one ppm = one mg/L. Usually, the amount of this organic waste needed to be cycled in an average aquarium is no more than 2 to 3 ppm, per day, as a bioload producing any more than this would require too frequent of PWC's to keep the end product of the cycle (the nitrate) below 40 ppm. It is not the water that is cycled, as this is only the medium in which the growth of nitrifying bacteria populations take place, on surfaces that are exposed to the most oxygen passing by them, via this medium (water). While all of the inside surfaces of the aquarium, including the substrate, will grow nitrifying bacteria, in effect nitrifying bacteria colonization will take place in its heaviest concentrations inside if the filter, where oxygenated water (and food, in the form of ammonia, and later, nitrite) is constantly flowing past the filter surfaces (and these bacteria). These nitrifying bacteria need large amounts of oxygen to thrive best, and to break down organic waste products that would otherwise build up in the water column. The constant flow of water being drawn past these bacteria ensures that new oxygen at its highest concentration (not yet exposed to these bacteria) is coming into contact with these bacteria at all times, promoting their metabolism and multiplication. The process of establishing a nitrifying bacteria cycle able to take care of (convert/oxidize) from 2 to 3 ppm ammonia per day in any size tank/filter normally takes from 4 to 6 weeks. The new water that is added at the time of making a PWC (Partial Water Change) does not get "cycled;" it merely -- but very importantly -- dilutes the remaining nitrate and other impurity(s) concentrations to keep it at a minimum. It will get colonized by small/token free-swimming populations of nitrifying (and other) bacteria from the remaining old water, but these are not the actual cycling populations of these bacteria. I might add, that in large tanks that are able to use power heads, and in tanks that can employ filters producing a large flow of water -- when/if these water flows are directed at any one aquarium wall, that particular aquarium wall will increase its nitrifying bacteria populations above the remaining three aquarium walls, even if not quite reaching the population level per area as the filter proper. Now, water sitting in a jug may have bacteria in it, but not necessarily nitrifying bacteria, and even if it may, the cycling process has certainly not already started as 1) nitrifying bacteria need a large volume of oxygen flowing past them to flourish, and 2) nitrifying bacteria need a constant source of food -- ammonia and nitrite to live. BTW, the new water does not need to be "cycled." Actually, if one thinks about it, the less bacteria (including nitrifying bacteria) found in the water column, the better the health of the aquarium. For larger quantities of nitrifying bacteria to be found in the water column, this would only mean that there are larger quantities of organic wastes present in the water column -- which we should want to keep at a minimum at all times. An extreme example of nitrifying bacteria seen in the water column when the nitrifying bacteria populations in the filter fail for whatever reason -- and organic wastes parameters exponentially increase because they're not being converted there -- is the manifestation of white/cloudy water as the result of these bacteria suddenly multiplying in the water column, where we don't want them to be -- a mini-cycle (or "new-tank syndrome"). The quantity of one's PWC's depends directly on one's bioload, and how much waste (nitrate, growth-inhibiting hormones and other impurities) that bioload produced in a given time period. Most often, we base PWC's on a weekly schedule. While there's no need to restrict PWC's to 1/4, 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank, what we need to do is restrict the bioload to produce only the amounts of organic wastes that can be removed by only 1/4, 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank of water when doing the weekly PWC. To need to make large PWC's means that the bioload is too large to be properly maintained with these smaller PWC's. One may change out, however, any larger amounts of water -- provided this is done on a regular basis so that the water in the aquarium most nearly matches the parameters of the tap water, keeping any changes (and subsequent possible stress) at an absolute minimum. The more water changed out on a regular basis, the better the overall heath of the aquarium and its inhabitants; one can never change out too much water if done regularly. In nature, the water in a river is giving its fish a constant (every second of every minute) 100% Water Change, with the best results that can be obtained from this by these fish. In the aquarium, as the nitrifying bacteria are mostly found in the filter, with much of these remaining bacteria found growing onto the inside aquarium surfaces, an 80% PWC will not deplete the needed quantities of nitrifying bacteria. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > ~Kai > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53401	From: Ray	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Kai, Water changes should not be kept to a minimum, nor is there any reason to want to keep them at a minimum. Instead, PWC's should be done adequately, even if this requires changing more water than the "minimum" (whatever amount that may be). This means that, while live plants will remove a good amount of organic waste products being built up, they can never remove enough organic wastes of an average normally (but not overly) stocked tank. As such, sufficient PWC's must be made on a regular basis, to keep the nitrate level down below 40 ppm -- and possibly much lower wherever practical. Old "dirty" water can build up large quantities of nitrate, and unless the excess amounts of this are removed mechanically via PWC's, the fish will suffer from it in time. As I stated before, new water does not need to be cycled. Unless the proper water conditioner is not used to detoxify either chlorine or chloramine that the water supplier is adding, or heavy metals are some of the elements being found in the new water that aren't being addressed by the proper water conditioner, there's no reason to believe the new water is more toxic than the old water -- unless there are other toxins found in the tap water that we don't know about. Often, the old water is more toxic than the new water, a reason why we make PWC's. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > Replying to myself, I said: > > > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > > > Unless you've neglected your tank for months on end and/or have horribly over-stocked your tank, the old "dirty" water really isn't that dirty. The new water that will need to cycle is probably more toxic. So don't be afraid to leave the old water in and to keep your water changes to a minimum. > ~Kai > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. > > > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." > > > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53402	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Hi Nora, The root trimming was all I did different, I took about a third off the length of each plant before replanting them-the rest of the set up is the same as it was for years. Simply I have various clay planters with Vallis set in a mixture of fine gravel & TetraPlant growing substrate. John*<o)))< * On 31 March 2012 08:15, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > wow, your plants really have grown a lot in the last pictures!! > What did you do with the roots to make them shoot up like this? Was that > the only change? I am sorry if I missed the story behind it... > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53403	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: how to clean gravel among plants?

This is why I have my plants in planters- I don't know how you would do this when the plants are set directly into the gravel so I look forward to seeing any replies about this too! John*<o)))< * On 31 March 2012 08:11, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > regarding our plants in our 10G tank: how do you clean the gravel around > the plants that are planted directly into the gravel? I usually cleaned > only the other half of the tank so I do not disturb and uproot the plants. > But now I added a little glass bowl filled with gravel with another plant > and there is hardly any free space on the bottom of the aquarium that I can > access easily. > Our gravel layer is not very thick (between 1-2 inches), do I NEED to > vacuum clean it regularly or can I just let it be? > I wonder if I should plant all the plants in glass containers so I can > move them around for the cleaning of the areas in between. The plants > formed roots in the gravel but they are not anchored very securely yet and > even careful cleaning around them makes them float away... > > Thanks for advice how it is or should be done! > Nora > > __ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53404	From: Sue	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: outside ponds

Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I do not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? I do not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my fish! Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53405	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: Beta Fishes keep dying

Hi Ray, thanks for your detailed response, you make everything very clear! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Kai, > > Water changes should not be kept to a minimum, nor is there any reason to want to keep them at a minimum. Instead, PWC's should be done adequately, even if this requires changing more water than the "minimum" (whatever amount that may be). This means that, while live plants will remove a good amount of organic waste products being built up, they can never remove enough organic wastes of an average normally (but not overly) stocked tank. As such, sufficient PWC's must be made on a regular basis, to keep the nitrate level down below 40 ppm -- and possibly much lower wherever practical. Old "dirty" water can build up large quantities of nitrate, and unless the excess amounts of this are removed mechanically via PWC's, the fish will suffer from it in time. As I stated before, new water does not need to be cycled. Unless the proper water conditioner is not used to detoxify either chlorine or chloramine that the water supplier is adding, or heavy metals are some of the elements being found in the new water that aren't being addressed by the proper water conditioner, there's no reason to believe the new water is more toxic than the old water -- unless there are other toxins found in the tap water that we don't know about. Often, the old water is more toxic than the new water, a reason why we make PWC's. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@> wrote: > > > > Replying to myself, I said: > > > > > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > > > > > > Unless you've neglected your tank for months on end and/or have horribly over-stocked your tank, the old "dirty" water really isn't that dirty. The new water that will need to cycle is probably more toxic. So don't be afraid to leave the old water in and to keep your water changes to a minimum. > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > Kai wrote: > > > > > > Until it's done cycling. :o) > > > > > > That depends on the size of the tank. I'm going to guess that a 2.5g Betta tank of brand new water will probably take a week until the water stabilizes. Obviously, a larger tank would take longer. > > > > > > Then in the future, when you do a partial water changes, the "old" water that remains --the water that has already cycled-- accelerates the cycling process of the new water that you add to replenish what gets sucked out. Only the new stuff has to cycle (and theoretically because it has been sitting in a jug, that process has already started.) > > > > > > It's a constant balance between water that's getting "dirtied" by the fish in the tank and the cycling of the new water that is being added. > > > > > > The key is to restrict your water changes to 1/4 or 1/3 or at most 1/2 a tank. And while you don't want a lot of algae build-up, that slick "slime" you feel if you run your fingers on the wall or decorations is a GOOD thing. > > > > > > If you Google CYCLING AQUARIUM, you'll get a zillion hits explaining the process and how to test the water, etc. Personally, I never test unless I think there's something wrong. I just keep up on regular tank cleanings and stick to the basic rule of "never change more than half the water at a time." > > > > > > A tank is a delicate ecosystem. Fish don't live in pure drinking water. > > > ~Kai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "magicalbookworm" wrote: > > > > > > > > How long should you let a tank cycle for? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53406	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Hi again, very interesting, would you know why root trimming helps? Does it stimulate the growth because the plant tries to get more nutrients over the leaves if the roots are shorter or is there an obvious reason I am missing? Also, is the TetraPlant growing substrate treated with minerals or similar or just a good place to anchor the roots? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > The root trimming was all I did different, I took about a third off the > length of each plant before replanting them-the rest of the set up is the > same as it was for years. Simply I have various clay planters with Vallis > set in a mixture of fine gravel & TetraPlant growing substrate. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 31 March 2012 08:15, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > wow, your plants really have grown a lot in the last pictures!! > > What did you do with the roots to make them shoot up like this? Was that > > the only change? I am sorry if I missed the story behind it... > > Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53407	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 3/31/2012
Subject: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi, I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? Just being curious.... Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53408	From: William M	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

If they sell lots of fish during each week, they are doing water changes (by taking water from the tanks that the fish are sold from). Some stores have central filtration systems where all of the tanks from one system run through one filter but that also means that there is more water per system than in each individual tank which makes it harder for any disease to find a host fish to live on. Also many stores have UV steralizers on the water that flows back to each tank that will kill harmfull diseases. When they add water to the filter (to make up for the water taken out by selling, splashing or evaporation, they will put the water conditioner in the "sump" and make sure that the water temp is very close to what is in the system. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > Just being curious.... > > Thanks, Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53409	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Nora, Different stores use different methods, and thus have various ranges of outcome. PetCo and PetSmart, along with Walmart and a number of other big chain stores tend to use systems that are as you describe "interconnected" where they all share the water and one common filtration system. We tend to refer to these systems as "bank systems" but there are a number of different names for them. You are correct about disease traveling to all of the tanks in a system such as this. In regards to medications... most stores who use these types of set ups don't medicate their fish for anything, but those few who do, yes, the medication would then be diluted unless they dose it for the total amount of water in the entire system. This can be a very dangerous practice (which is one reason not many attempt such a thing) because not all species of fish can tolerate all types of medications. Water changes tend to be done seldom in these types of set ups, and when they are they tend to shut down the sump filter and do the water changes from there... then filling it up again in the same location. Some stores, such as the one I worked in last, choose to do each tank individually, and for this there are a number of different ways to set up the filtration process. Smaller stores tend to do individual filters on each tank, some do smaller "banks" of tanks together on a shared sump filter, and others work with a constant drip/overflow system in each tank like we used at the store where I worked. We had over 350 individual sales tanks, each had its own overflow with water lines that went through the entire 8000 sq ft fish room, a valve over each individual tank, where fresh water constantly dripped into each tank. When we did an actual water change on each tank we simply turned up the drip rate to refill the tank. If there were fish in the tank then it was set to a fast drip, if the tank was empty of fish we would open the valve so the tank filled faster. This meant less work and constant clean water going into every tank. I should mention that this worked exclusively for the freshwater and brackish water tanks. Our marine tanks worked on "bank" systems with shared sump filtration, but they were divided up based on what was kept in them so as to prevent spread of disease and to allow us to put animals in the proper water chemistry. Each of these tanks was also designed with overflow, and each tank could be individually "turned off" or separated from the main system in cases where medications were needed, so that medications were restricted to that specific tank. When that would happen the tank would be cleaned manually before it was again reconnected to the main bank system. How aquariums are run in pet stores should never be used as an example of how to do it at home. Not only is it near impossible in some situations, such as the one where I worked, but it is not "easy" or conducive to healthy fish keeping for the average fish keeper who only has a few individual tanks which usually tend to differ from each other in animals and water chemistry requirements. The other thing that needs to be remembered is that fish store aquarium set ups are designed as "temporary" housing for the fish... not long term. Most fish are in pet stores for less than a week, sometimes less than a day before they are either sold or die... and pet stores, regardless of how they are set up, tend to have a very high mortality rate when it comes to fish, but it is usually hidden well from the public. Some of that is unavoidable, especially with the amount of shipping, stress, and changes these fish go through to get from breeder to wholesaler to store in a short period of time. I hope this helps to answer your question. If you would like more details or have specific questions beyond this, just let me know and I will do my best to explain it to you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > Just being curious.... > > Thanks, Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53410	From: Ray	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi Nora, You're asking about water changes in two very different types of systems. While some stores have individual tanks that have their own filtering systems for each tank, other stores have their tanks interconnected on a central filtration system. Those stores having individual tanks change a number of their tanks' water on a rotating basis. If they have 50 tanks, as am example, they may do a partial water change on 12 of them each successive week until all are done -- then they start back with the first one they cleaned and start all over again. These tanks are given PWC's either with a Python water changing hose, or by using an external water pump and hoses, with each tank being done one at a time. The water conditioner is added to each tank as they're being filled, just as many of us do at home. Many of the larger "Super" (chain) stores use the central filtration system I mentioned. Each tank has its own individual overflow, which feeds into one main manifold going to a central sump/filter. After this water is run through the filter, it is returned via another manifold and distributed to all the tanks via these tanks' water feed lines. Since all the water is collected in one large sump to be filtered, it's coming from every tank and no tank gets only it's own water returned but instead a mixture of water that was drained from all the tanks. There is a large U/V filter also, in this system, but no U/V filter can take the full flow of any central filtration system. As an example, the large pump that moves all the water from all the tanks back to them may move the water at a rate of 1000 or 2000 GPH. U/V filters are designed to have a flow rate through them at a much slower rate (perhaps 200 GPH or less), to ensure that the water will have a sufficient exposure in time for the ultraviolet rays to be effective in killing off any pathogens and suspended algae. So, this means that while some of the flow is directed through the U/V filter with each pass of the same water mixture, most of it bypasses the U/V filter. The U/V's effectiveness is dependent upon multiple passes of the water mixture with each return of the water mixture, but you can see by this that there will always be a portion of the water that is never exposed to the U/V ray as it's bypassing the U/V filter. So, Yes -- there's always the chance that Ich and any other diseases can spread from tank to tank, however slim this chance may be. BUT -- it doesn't take much for some pathogens to effect some species which ere never exposed to them. A number of domesticated species will contract pathogens brought into the system by wild fish even though they will be in a different tank. One major example of this is -- unless the central filtration system is maintained impeccably (which it seldom is) -- Any of our domestic Angelfish are prone to just this situation of being exposed to pathogens in a central filtration system that they've never been exposed to before. They just cannot handle it; i/e., Angelfish cannot tolerate being in a central filtration system -- they will almost invariably fold up (perish) in short time, often within the week. This is one fish that should not be displayed in a central filtration system, for resale. As for treating an individual tank for a disease, each tank's fill pipe has a valve on it, which can be used to isolate the tank at these times when it becomes necessary. The medication then, will not be diluted as it will remain only in that tank. For anyone contemplating buying Angelfish from a store having a central filtration system -- forget about it. Odds are 10 to 1 that your new purchases will be dead within 2 weeks -- and more probably, within 1 week. Unless an Angelfish breeder knows that a store's central filtration system is being maintained impeccably, it's best not to sell to such a store as numerous losses will almost always occur, which will need replacing almost as fast as they're being delivered, if the breeder "guarantees" them. I knew of only one such store in my local area that maintained their central filtration system in a manner being able to maintain Angelfish without incident, and had a nice account with them selling to them every week and this was a PetCo store. Unfortunately, they were taken over in time by a PetSmart store which, although they used the same existing central system, they just don't maintain it properly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > Just being curious.... > > Thanks, Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53411	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Hi Sue, Welcome to the group. I don't know much about poisonous plants so I cannot give you a definitive list but certainly one general type of plant to avoid is anything prickly or thorny such as Holly, Blackberry or Rose bushes. Not only is that a danger to the fish if any of it falls into the water but it's a nightmare when you are doing pond maintenance, I got the scars to prove it! Also if possible avoid any overhanging trees, swallowed pine cones have been responsible for many Koi deaths & large amounts of leaves falling in during the Autumn can seriously affect the pH if they are not removed swiftly. A large pond can be landscaped to sit in with it's surroundings-grass right down to the water looks impressive while smaller ponds look nice with rockeries at the back of them & some small trialing alpine plants either set directly into the scree/rockery or in pots & perhaps a few shrubs at the top to hide the filtration system. Can you let us know approximately how large your pond is & also do you have anything specific in mind? If you could post some pictures of your system that would be really useful. John*<o)))< * On 1 April 2012 04:14, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > ** > > > Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the > winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I do > not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? I do > not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my fish! > > Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!) > > > Reply to sender <lovemym8@...?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGQ5M2UzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--?act=reply&messageNum=53404>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmpidG1uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53404;_ylc=X3oDMTM2a25tbmV2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNAR0cGNJZAM1MzQwNA-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbDBsbTg0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-?o=6> > 10 > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM3U3bmViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-> > 22 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTJrdDQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53412	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Hi Nora, I think trimming the roots means that the plant has less distance to bring the nutrients to feed the foliage & there is less root structure to look after so more 'above-soil' growth occurs. I really don't know any specifics on this-I posted last year in desperation as my plants were in a very sorry state & Dawn told me about the root trimming. I had nothing to loose & tried it & it this is how the plants look today! TetraPlant-I don't know what it contains but I assume there is some type of fish-friendly fertiliser there are small clumps of dark material in it's mainly sandy make-up. It is really made for tropical tanks but I have used it in my pots for years. I think it is a good mixture of various nutrients as my plants never grew very well in regular gravel but once I started using this they shot up. It is quite expensive but I re-use it many times over so in the long run it works out cheap. I think in nearly 8 years of fish keeping I have bought 3 or 4 large 5.8kg tubs at £17.95 each. When you set that against the other running costs such as new lighting & filtration media then it really is very little for nice plants. John*<o)))< * On 1 April 2012 06:32, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > very interesting, would you know why root trimming helps? Does it > stimulate the growth because the plant tries to get more nutrients over the > leaves if the roots are shorter or is there an obvious reason I am missing? > Also, is the TetraPlant growing substrate treated with minerals or similar > or just a good place to anchor the roots? > > Thanks, Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53413	From: susan m.	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Also I would love to reduce my number of cat tails. Any ideas? Sue ------------------------------ On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 2:44 PM CDT SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: >Hi Sue, > > Welcome to the group. I don't know much about poisonous plants so I cannot >give you a definitive list but certainly one general type of plant to avoid >is anything prickly or thorny such as Holly, Blackberry or Rose bushes. Not >only is that a danger to the fish if any of it falls into the water but >it's a nightmare when you are doing pond maintenance, I got the scars to >prove it! Also if possible avoid any overhanging trees, swallowed pine >cones have been responsible for many Koi deaths & large amounts of leaves >falling in during the Autumn can seriously affect the pH if they are not >removed swiftly. A large pond can be landscaped to sit in with it's >surroundings-grass right down to the water looks impressive while smaller >ponds look nice with rockeries at the back of them & some small trialing >alpine plants either set directly into the scree/rockery or in pots & >perhaps a few shrubs at the top to hide the filtration system. Can you let >us know approximately how large your pond is & also do you have anything >specific in mind? If you could post some pictures of your system that would >be really useful. > > John*<o)))< > >* >On 1 April 2012 04:14, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the >> winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I do >> not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? I do >> not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my fish! >> >> Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!) >> >> >> Reply to sender <lovemym8@...?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply >> to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply >> via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGQ5M2UzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--?act=reply&messageNum=53404>| Start >> a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmpidG1uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> >> Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53404;_ylc=X3oDMTM2a25tbmV2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNAR0cGNJZAM1MzQwNA-->( >> 1) >> Recent Activity: >> >> - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbDBsbTg0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-?o=6> >> 10 >> - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM3U3bmViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-> >> 22 >> >> Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTJrdDQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> >> AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s >> >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53414	From: Sue	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Hi John, Thank you. I don't have a system. I just have a pond and that's it! Everything is thriving! My pond is over 5 feet deep and at least 10 feet across the circle. I don't do anything but sit by it and watch my fish swim like crazy! In the spring I have a pair of mallards that hang out but don't nest near me. But no system. I don't touch it and it is thriving! I love it! Sue --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Sue, > > Welcome to the group. I don't know much about poisonous plants so I cannot > give you a definitive list but certainly one general type of plant to avoid > is anything prickly or thorny such as Holly, Blackberry or Rose bushes. Not > only is that a danger to the fish if any of it falls into the water but > it's a nightmare when you are doing pond maintenance, I got the scars to > prove it! Also if possible avoid any overhanging trees, swallowed pine > cones have been responsible for many Koi deaths & large amounts of leaves > falling in during the Autumn can seriously affect the pH if they are not > removed swiftly. A large pond can be landscaped to sit in with it's > surroundings-grass right down to the water looks impressive while smaller > ponds look nice with rockeries at the back of them & some small trialing > alpine plants either set directly into the scree/rockery or in pots & > perhaps a few shrubs at the top to hide the filtration system. Can you let > us know approximately how large your pond is & also do you have anything > specific in mind? If you could post some pictures of your system that would > be really useful. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 1 April 2012 04:14, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the > > winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I do > > not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? I do > > not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my fish! > > > > Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!) > > > > > > Reply to sender <lovemym8@...?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply > > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20outside%20ponds> | Reply > > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGQ5M2UzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--?act=reply&messageNum=53404>| Start > > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYmpidG1uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> > > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53404;_ylc=X3oDMTM2a25tbmV2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDA0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNAR0cGNJZAM1MzQwNA-->( > > 1) > > Recent Activity: > > > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbDBsbTg0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-?o=6> > > 10 > > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM3U3bmViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMzMyNTAxMTQ-> > > 22 > > > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTJrdDQ5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzMzI1MDExNA--> > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53415	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi Dawn, thanks a lot for the detailed answer! I was getting curious how it is done and also wondered where it would be safest for the future to buy fish. Fish shops with the dripping system or at least disconnected systems seem a lot safer regarding getting "disease-free" fish... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Nora, > Different stores use different methods, and thus have various ranges of outcome. PetCo and PetSmart, along with Walmart and a number of other big chain stores tend to use systems that are as you describe "interconnected" where they all share the water and one common filtration system. We tend to refer to these systems as "bank systems" but there are a number of different names for them. > > You are correct about disease traveling to all of the tanks in a system such as this. In regards to medications... most stores who use these types of set ups don't medicate their fish for anything, but those few who do, yes, the medication would then be diluted unless they dose it for the total amount of water in the entire system. This can be a very dangerous practice (which is one reason not many attempt such a thing) because not all species of fish can tolerate all types of medications. > > Water changes tend to be done seldom in these types of set ups, and when they are they tend to shut down the sump filter and do the water changes from there... then filling it up again in the same location. > > Some stores, such as the one I worked in last, choose to do each tank individually, and for this there are a number of different ways to set up the filtration process. Smaller stores tend to do individual filters on each tank, some do smaller "banks" of tanks together on a shared sump filter, and others work with a constant drip/overflow system in each tank like we used at the store where I worked. We had over 350 individual sales tanks, each had its own overflow with water lines that went through the entire 8000 sq ft fish room, a valve over each individual tank, where fresh water constantly dripped into each tank. When we did an actual water change on each tank we simply turned up the drip rate to refill the tank. If there were fish in the tank then it was set to a fast drip, if the tank was empty of fish we would open the valve so the tank filled faster. This meant less work and constant clean water going into every tank. I should mention that this worked exclusively for the freshwater and brackish water tanks. Our marine tanks worked on "bank" systems with shared sump filtration, but they were divided up based on what was kept in them so as to prevent spread of disease and to allow us to put animals in the proper water chemistry. Each of these tanks was also designed with overflow, and each tank could be individually "turned off" or separated from the main system in cases where medications were needed, so that medications were restricted to that specific tank. When that would happen the tank would be cleaned manually before it was again reconnected to the main bank system. > > How aquariums are run in pet stores should never be used as an example of how to do it at home. Not only is it near impossible in some situations, such as the one where I worked, but it is not "easy" or conducive to healthy fish keeping for the average fish keeper who only has a few individual tanks which usually tend to differ from each other in animals and water chemistry requirements. The other thing that needs to be remembered is that fish store aquarium set ups are designed as "temporary" housing for the fish... not long term. Most fish are in pet stores for less than a week, sometimes less than a day before they are either sold or die... and pet stores, regardless of how they are set up, tend to have a very high mortality rate when it comes to fish, but it is usually hidden well from the public. Some of that is unavoidable, especially with the amount of shipping, stress, and changes these fish go through to get from breeder to wholesaler to store in a short period of time. > > I hope this helps to answer your question. If you would like more details or have specific questions beyond this, just let me know and I will do my best to explain it to you. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > > > Just being curious.... > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53416	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Hi again, ah, maybe I should try a different substrate too....at least in the glass container. My new plant (the one I forgot the name with round green leaves) has lots of roots coming out from everywhere along the stems into the water which are just hanging there freely (in addition to the roots in the gravel). Do you or anyone know if that is a good sign? Does it mean the plant is thriving or rather that it would need more nutrients and tries desperately to get them? Right now it seems to grow well but it is rather new and I really like it. Thanks for all the info, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I think trimming the roots means that the plant has less distance to > bring the nutrients to feed the foliage & there is less root structure to > look after so more 'above-soil' growth occurs. I really don't know any > specifics on this-I posted last year in desperation as my plants were in a > very sorry state & Dawn told me about the root trimming. I had nothing to > loose & tried it & it this is how the plants look today! > > TetraPlant-I don't know what it contains but I assume there is some type of > fish-friendly fertiliser there are small clumps of dark material in it's > mainly sandy make-up. It is really made for tropical tanks but I have used > it in my pots for years. I think it is a good mixture of various nutrients > as my plants never grew very well in regular gravel but once I started > using this they shot up. It is quite expensive but I re-use it many times > over so in the long run it works out cheap. I think in nearly 8 years of > fish keeping I have bought 3 or 4 large 5.8kg tubs at £17.95 each. When you > set that against the other running costs such as new lighting & filtration > media then it really is very little for nice plants. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 1 April 2012 06:32, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > very interesting, would you know why root trimming helps? Does it > > stimulate the growth because the plant tries to get more nutrients over the > > leaves if the roots are shorter or is there an obvious reason I am missing? > > Also, is the TetraPlant growing substrate treated with minerals or similar > > or just a good place to anchor the roots? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53417	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi, thanks for the info, too! Makes sense that the dilution through the central filtration helps a lot. But it seems one really has to be lucky to get a completely healthy fish from such a system... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > If they sell lots of fish during each week, they are doing water changes (by taking water from the tanks that the fish are sold from). Some stores have central filtration systems where all of the tanks from one system run through one filter but that also means that there is more water per system than in each individual tank which makes it harder for any disease to find a host fish to live on. Also many stores have UV steralizers on the water that flows back to each tank that will kill harmfull diseases. When they add water to the filter (to make up for the water taken out by selling, splashing or evaporation, they will put the water conditioner in the "sump" and make sure that the water temp is very close to what is in the system. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > > > Just being curious.... > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53418	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/1/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Bacopa? They are supposed to have the roots all along the stems. They will grow to the top of your aquarium and then need to be trimmed and the tips with roots replanted to start over again and again. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 11:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: John's Plants Hi again, ah, maybe I should try a different substrate too....at least in the glass container. My new plant (the one I forgot the name with round green leaves) has lots of roots coming out from everywhere along the stems into the water which are just hanging there freely (in addition to the roots in the gravel). Do you or anyone know if that is a good sign? Does it mean the plant is thriving or rather that it would need more nutrients and tries desperately to get them? Right now it seems to grow well but it is rather new and I really like it. Thanks for all the info, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I think trimming the roots means that the plant has less distance to > bring the nutrients to feed the foliage & there is less root structure to > look after so more 'above-soil' growth occurs. I really don't know any > specifics on this-I posted last year in desperation as my plants were in a > very sorry state & Dawn told me about the root trimming. I had nothing to > loose & tried it & it this is how the plants look today! > > TetraPlant-I don't know what it contains but I assume there is some type of > fish-friendly fertiliser there are small clumps of dark material in it's > mainly sandy make-up. It is really made for tropical tanks but I have used > it in my pots for years. I think it is a good mixture of various nutrients > as my plants never grew very well in regular gravel but once I started > using this they shot up. It is quite expensive but I re-use it many times > over so in the long run it works out cheap. I think in nearly 8 years of > fish keeping I have bought 3 or 4 large 5.8kg tubs at £17.95 each. When you > set that against the other running costs such as new lighting & filtration > media then it really is very little for nice plants. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 1 April 2012 06:32, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > very interesting, would you know why root trimming helps? Does it > > stimulate the growth because the plant tries to get more nutrients over the > > leaves if the roots are shorter or is there an obvious reason I am missing? > > Also, is the TetraPlant growing substrate treated with minerals or similar > > or just a good place to anchor the roots? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53419	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi Ray, thank you very much for the long answer! I had not read about UV systems before but now I understand why the fish stores do not seem to have an algae problem for example... I remember you have over or around 90 differently sized tanks. Are you also using a filtration overflow system that works automatically? I could hardly imagine of doing more than maybe 10 smaller tanks manually...? Right now I do maybe 25% water change every 2-3 days since we have lots of fish in our 10G tank. But it seems to be stable now and even after exchanging another carbon filter I did not notice much of a change (the added sponge in the system seems to help sufficiently). But each water change kept me wondering how others with larger systems and lots of tanks handle it... Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > You're asking about water changes in two very different types of systems. While some stores have individual tanks that have their own filtering systems for each tank, other stores have their tanks interconnected on a central filtration system. > > Those stores having individual tanks change a number of their tanks' water on a rotating basis. If they have 50 tanks, as am example, they may do a partial water change on 12 of them each successive week until all are done -- then they start back with the first one they cleaned and start all over again. These tanks are given PWC's either with a Python water changing hose, or by using an external water pump and hoses, with each tank being done one at a time. The water conditioner is added to each tank as they're being filled, just as many of us do at home. > > Many of the larger "Super" (chain) stores use the central filtration system I mentioned. Each tank has its own individual overflow, which feeds into one main manifold going to a central sump/filter. After this water is run through the filter, it is returned via another manifold and distributed to all the tanks via these tanks' water feed lines. Since all the water is collected in one large sump to be filtered, it's coming from every tank and no tank gets only it's own water returned but instead a mixture of water that was drained from all the tanks. > > There is a large U/V filter also, in this system, but no U/V filter can take the full flow of any central filtration system. As an example, the large pump that moves all the water from all the tanks back to them may move the water at a rate of 1000 or 2000 GPH. U/V filters are designed to have a flow rate through them at a much slower rate (perhaps 200 GPH or less), to ensure that the water will have a sufficient exposure in time for the ultraviolet rays to be effective in killing off any pathogens and suspended algae. So, this means that while some of the flow is directed through the U/V filter with each pass of the same water mixture, most of it bypasses the U/V filter. The U/V's effectiveness is dependent upon multiple passes of the water mixture with each return of the water mixture, but you can see by this that there will always be a portion of the water that is never exposed to the U/V ray as it's bypassing the U/V filter. > > So, Yes -- there's always the chance that Ich and any other diseases can spread from tank to tank, however slim this chance may be. BUT -- it doesn't take much for some pathogens to effect some species which ere never exposed to them. A number of domesticated species will contract pathogens brought into the system by wild fish even though they will be in a different tank. One major example of this is -- unless the central filtration system is maintained impeccably (which it seldom is) -- Any of our domestic Angelfish are prone to just this situation of being exposed to pathogens in a central filtration system that they've never been exposed to before. They just cannot handle it; i/e., Angelfish cannot tolerate being in a central filtration system -- they will almost invariably fold up (perish) in short time, often within the week. This is one fish that should not be displayed in a central filtration system, for resale. > > As for treating an individual tank for a disease, each tank's fill pipe has a valve on it, which can be used to isolate the tank at these times when it becomes necessary. The medication then, will not be diluted as it will remain only in that tank. > > For anyone contemplating buying Angelfish from a store having a central filtration system -- forget about it. Odds are 10 to 1 that your new purchases will be dead within 2 weeks -- and more probably, within 1 week. Unless an Angelfish breeder knows that a store's central filtration system is being maintained impeccably, it's best not to sell to such a store as numerous losses will almost always occur, which will need replacing almost as fast as they're being delivered, if the breeder "guarantees" them. I knew of only one such store in my local area that maintained their central filtration system in a manner being able to maintain Angelfish without incident, and had a nice account with them selling to them every week and this was a PetCo store. Unfortunately, they were taken over in time by a PetSmart store which, although they used the same existing central system, they just don't maintain it properly. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > > > Just being curious.... > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53420	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi Ray, I forgot to mention: thanks for the insight regarding delicate fish like Angelfish. It is good to know what to avoid in the future if we should consider getting one! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > You're asking about water changes in two very different types of systems. While some stores have individual tanks that have their own filtering systems for each tank, other stores have their tanks interconnected on a central filtration system. > > Those stores having individual tanks change a number of their tanks' water on a rotating basis. If they have 50 tanks, as am example, they may do a partial water change on 12 of them each successive week until all are done -- then they start back with the first one they cleaned and start all over again. These tanks are given PWC's either with a Python water changing hose, or by using an external water pump and hoses, with each tank being done one at a time. The water conditioner is added to each tank as they're being filled, just as many of us do at home. > > Many of the larger "Super" (chain) stores use the central filtration system I mentioned. Each tank has its own individual overflow, which feeds into one main manifold going to a central sump/filter. After this water is run through the filter, it is returned via another manifold and distributed to all the tanks via these tanks' water feed lines. Since all the water is collected in one large sump to be filtered, it's coming from every tank and no tank gets only it's own water returned but instead a mixture of water that was drained from all the tanks. > > There is a large U/V filter also, in this system, but no U/V filter can take the full flow of any central filtration system. As an example, the large pump that moves all the water from all the tanks back to them may move the water at a rate of 1000 or 2000 GPH. U/V filters are designed to have a flow rate through them at a much slower rate (perhaps 200 GPH or less), to ensure that the water will have a sufficient exposure in time for the ultraviolet rays to be effective in killing off any pathogens and suspended algae. So, this means that while some of the flow is directed through the U/V filter with each pass of the same water mixture, most of it bypasses the U/V filter. The U/V's effectiveness is dependent upon multiple passes of the water mixture with each return of the water mixture, but you can see by this that there will always be a portion of the water that is never exposed to the U/V ray as it's bypassing the U/V filter. > > So, Yes -- there's always the chance that Ich and any other diseases can spread from tank to tank, however slim this chance may be. BUT -- it doesn't take much for some pathogens to effect some species which ere never exposed to them. A number of domesticated species will contract pathogens brought into the system by wild fish even though they will be in a different tank. One major example of this is -- unless the central filtration system is maintained impeccably (which it seldom is) -- Any of our domestic Angelfish are prone to just this situation of being exposed to pathogens in a central filtration system that they've never been exposed to before. They just cannot handle it; i/e., Angelfish cannot tolerate being in a central filtration system -- they will almost invariably fold up (perish) in short time, often within the week. This is one fish that should not be displayed in a central filtration system, for resale. > > As for treating an individual tank for a disease, each tank's fill pipe has a valve on it, which can be used to isolate the tank at these times when it becomes necessary. The medication then, will not be diluted as it will remain only in that tank. > > For anyone contemplating buying Angelfish from a store having a central filtration system -- forget about it. Odds are 10 to 1 that your new purchases will be dead within 2 weeks -- and more probably, within 1 week. Unless an Angelfish breeder knows that a store's central filtration system is being maintained impeccably, it's best not to sell to such a store as numerous losses will almost always occur, which will need replacing almost as fast as they're being delivered, if the breeder "guarantees" them. I knew of only one such store in my local area that maintained their central filtration system in a manner being able to maintain Angelfish without incident, and had a nice account with them selling to them every week and this was a PetCo store. Unfortunately, they were taken over in time by a PetSmart store which, although they used the same existing central system, they just don't maintain it properly. > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > > > Just being curious.... > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53421	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: John's Plants

Hi Nora, That sounds like Anacharis [or Elodea as they insist on calling it here in UK!] & yes the stem roots are a very good sign that all is well. I anchor this plant into pots purely to keep it reasonably neat & sometimes the roots will extend down into the substrate if they are low down on the stem but it doesn't seem to bother making any permanent root structures under the soil-at least not in my experience. I'm not certain but I think the roots get eaten by my fish as they seem to disappear after a while. It should grow branches off the main stem & you might find that the older parts of the plant die off a little & turn yellow. You can trim it but I would recommend keeping a little of the old yellow stem either side of the new growth as this helps to feed the new shoot. I bought some small bunches of this for my tank late last year & now each have grown a couple of feet. I have seen it often in ponds where it will grow unchecked & can reach several feet long with branches all over. John*<o)))< * On 2 April 2012 04:01, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > ah, maybe I should try a different substrate too....at least in the glass > container. > My new plant (the one I forgot the name with round green leaves) has lots > of roots coming out from everywhere along the stems into the water which > are just hanging there freely (in addition to the roots in the gravel). Do > you or anyone know if that is a good sign? Does it mean the plant is > thriving or rather that it would need more nutrients and tries desperately > to get them? Right now it seems to grow well but it is rather new and I > really like it. > > Thanks for all the info, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53422	From: William M	Date: 4/2/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

The flow through system is good if you are not conserned about the cost of the water and sewer charges. In general, you will use more water using a flow through method than a central filtration system(s). I just bought a house and will set up central filtration systems (after things settle down a bit and I know for sure how much room that i can use for the fish room. Also I tent to raise heardy fish such as cichlids. If you keep the fish unstressed, they will usually be able to avoid coming down with any disease. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Nora, > Different stores use different methods, and thus have various ranges of outcome. PetCo and PetSmart, along with Walmart and a number of other big chain stores tend to use systems that are as you describe "interconnected" where they all share the water and one common filtration system. We tend to refer to these systems as "bank systems" but there are a number of different names for them. > > You are correct about disease traveling to all of the tanks in a system such as this. In regards to medications... most stores who use these types of set ups don't medicate their fish for anything, but those few who do, yes, the medication would then be diluted unless they dose it for the total amount of water in the entire system. This can be a very dangerous practice (which is one reason not many attempt such a thing) because not all species of fish can tolerate all types of medications. > > Water changes tend to be done seldom in these types of set ups, and when they are they tend to shut down the sump filter and do the water changes from there... then filling it up again in the same location. > > Some stores, such as the one I worked in last, choose to do each tank individually, and for this there are a number of different ways to set up the filtration process. Smaller stores tend to do individual filters on each tank, some do smaller "banks" of tanks together on a shared sump filter, and others work with a constant drip/overflow system in each tank like we used at the store where I worked. We had over 350 individual sales tanks, each had its own overflow with water lines that went through the entire 8000 sq ft fish room, a valve over each individual tank, where fresh water constantly dripped into each tank. When we did an actual water change on each tank we simply turned up the drip rate to refill the tank. If there were fish in the tank then it was set to a fast drip, if the tank was empty of fish we would open the valve so the tank filled faster. This meant less work and constant clean water going into every tank. I should mention that this worked exclusively for the freshwater and brackish water tanks. Our marine tanks worked on "bank" systems with shared sump filtration, but they were divided up based on what was kept in them so as to prevent spread of disease and to allow us to put animals in the proper water chemistry. Each of these tanks was also designed with overflow, and each tank could be individually "turned off" or separated from the main system in cases where medications were needed, so that medications were restricted to that specific tank. When that would happen the tank would be cleaned manually before it was again reconnected to the main bank system. > > How aquariums are run in pet stores should never be used as an example of how to do it at home. Not only is it near impossible in some situations, such as the one where I worked, but it is not "easy" or conducive to healthy fish keeping for the average fish keeper who only has a few individual tanks which usually tend to differ from each other in animals and water chemistry requirements. The other thing that needs to be remembered is that fish store aquarium set ups are designed as "temporary" housing for the fish... not long term. Most fish are in pet stores for less than a week, sometimes less than a day before they are either sold or die... and pet stores, regardless of how they are set up, tend to have a very high mortality rate when it comes to fish, but it is usually hidden well from the public. Some of that is unavoidable, especially with the amount of shipping, stress, and changes these fish go through to get from breeder to wholesaler to store in a short period of time. > > I hope this helps to answer your question. If you would like more details or have specific questions beyond this, just let me know and I will do my best to explain it to you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53423	From: Gemi S	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

Hi All, I'm a new member of this forum and just wanted to say how much I appreciate the discussions about cycling and plants. A friend gave me her unused 29 gallon tank this winter and I am hooked, although I realize I have a lot to learn. In fact, I just bought a 75 gallon tank so I can get some slightly larger fish. I'm just getting my college-age daughter set up with a 10 gallon tank (also a gift from the above friend). She plans on having guppies, a cory or two and possibly some tetras or white cloud mountain minnows. She'll be going back to school in the fall and was wondering if it's possible to (relatively) safely transport her fish somehow so she can have them with her during the school year? It's a 4-hour drive for her. Any tips on doing this - or is it better to just keep them in one place permanently? Thanks! Best, Gemi

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53424	From: Ray	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: water changes in large systems, fish shop?

Hi Nora, My pleasure in supply you with as full an explanation as possible, so you can best fully understand an answer to your question(s). As for a UV system, it will do nothing for algae growing on a surface, but is only effective on eliminating suspended algae (green water). No, I don't use a fully automatic overflow system, although I'll make it clear that the changed water is "overflowed" (directed down the drain) and not recirculated. I do not have a central filtration system, using one large filter and sump, and returning the mixed water back to the tanks as I don't believe in this type of system as a way to keep fish their healthiest without risk. I've seen too many central filtration systems spread disease despite the hobbyist's best efforts in maintaining everything properly. Getting back to my previous message on this Subject, when I said I used to raise Angelfish for my local PetCo outlet, I became very good friends with the fish department manager who designed and built the central filtration system for that store at the time the store first opened about 20 years ago. One day he took me behind the scenes to the large room where the huge central sump and filtration system was located, and where all the piping came in and returned out of it. He explained it all, and it was very impressive. As he maintained it, it was flawless in keeping the store's many display tanks of fish in the best of health, but keeping fish displayed for only a few weeks or lass until they are sold, and maintaining fish indefinitely long-term until they die of old age are two very different things to consider when thinking about using a central filtration system. Long-term, fish being kept in water that is constantly being purified of all or most pathogens exposed to UV eventually lose their immunity to many ordinary aquatic diseases and can quickly contract a disease either when sold or when other newer fish are added in with them, even when these newer fish may be quarantined for a month or more. Many fish -- especially wild ones, but even domestic ones raised on fish farms -- can carry diseases without manifestation of them, as these fishes' immune systems prevent them from being adversely affected. So, even after a month or even six weeks in quarantine, they will show no ill effects. But when these quarantined and healthy-appearing fish are put with those fish living in a central filtration system, the original fish can no longer fight the simplest of diseases as they have no immunity to them any longer. It was explained to me by this PetCo fish dep't manager that a central filtration system should certainly not be considered by a fish breeder who would be raising fish in these sterile conditions, only to sell them to the local shops and put into tanks where ordinary fish having built-up immune systems are being maintained, as these tank raised fish having never been exposed to any diseases will surely contract any of the simplest diseases and won't be able to fight them. After some time selling my tank raised Angels to this PetCo outlet, I mentioned to this manager that I was thinking about converting my system to a central filtration system like he built, but this was before he explained the pit-falls of this system for fish having a long exposure to this environment. I invited him over to my hatchery one day, and after seeing what I installed, he said I was much better off staying with what I had -- but would help me if I still wanted to convert to certal filtration. I'm glad I never made that transition. I have a semi-automatic PWC system, which has the waste water go right down the drain, or out to the gardens. I'm working on making it fully automated, by it's going to take me some more time -- if I ever get tro finish it (as right now, what I have fairly well suits my needs). I have 3/4" PVC tubing running around the ceiling of the hatchery, above every row of tanks, for feeding fresh water into them. There's a water pump attached to this at the beginning of PVC feed-water system, which draws water from four 125 gallon holding tanks (aquariums). I have all the overflows built and in place, to be used as automatically allowing excess water to be drained off but they're not being used yet. Instead, and because I find that many of the tanks have their individual needs as to removing waste, I'm using another pump to draw water out of each tank separately into a drain manifold of PVC tubing, with using a length of garden hose attached to the inlet side of this pump, which allows me to direct the hose exactly where I want it to be in each tank. Some tanks have fry or juveniles, which requires more attention in removing waste as they could easily be drawn up with the waste water if not taking the precaution to avoid it. As the next tank is being pumped down, the previous tank is being filled at the flip of a switch so that no time is being wasted. As mentioned, I have about 500 gallons of water in reserve at all times, for making PWC's. In the Summer, I can use this much every day with the well water coming up to the ambient temperature within 24 hours, although in the Winter it takes two days. As I have about 3200 gallons of water in my tanks, I can do 100% water changes on all the tanks each week in the Summer (with using 500 gallons a day, for 7 days) -- although I really only do 90% PWC's; got to leave the fish some room to swim in while their tanks are being refilled < g >. Every tank is filtered though, but separately. As the well is privately owned, the water doesn't cost me anything, and luckily, there is no discharged water fee that some communities (especially in CT) charge, as Bill pointed out. Everyone needs some kind of a system for maintaining their fish, to make things easiest for them -- and I'm not necessarily talking about a physical system of PVC piping, but some kind or organization in doing these weekly chores. Once a plan is kept in mind, it makes things a lot easier to maintain your fish with the least amount of time and work needing to be used. I'm glad to see that you're able to keep your tank stable now, with the help of that additional filter sponge. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > thank you very much for the long answer! I had not read about UV systems before but now I understand why the fish stores do not seem to have an algae problem for example... > > I remember you have over or around 90 differently sized tanks. Are you also using a filtration overflow system that works automatically? I could hardly imagine of doing more than maybe 10 smaller tanks manually...? > > Right now I do maybe 25% water change every 2-3 days since we have lots of fish in our 10G tank. But it seems to be stable now and even after exchanging another carbon filter I did not notice much of a change (the added sponge in the system seems to help sufficiently). But each water change kept me wondering how others with larger systems and lots of tanks handle it... > > Thanks again, Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > You're asking about water changes in two very different types of systems. While some stores have individual tanks that have their own filtering systems for each tank, other stores have their tanks interconnected on a central filtration system. > > > > Those stores having individual tanks change a number of their tanks' water on a rotating basis. If they have 50 tanks, as am example, they may do a partial water change on 12 of them each successive week until all are done -- then they start back with the first one they cleaned and start all over again. These tanks are given PWC's either with a Python water changing hose, or by using an external water pump and hoses, with each tank being done one at a time. The water conditioner is added to each tank as they're being filled, just as many of us do at home. > > > > Many of the larger "Super" (chain) stores use the central filtration system I mentioned. Each tank has its own individual overflow, which feeds into one main manifold going to a central sump/filter. After this water is run through the filter, it is returned via another manifold and distributed to all the tanks via these tanks' water feed lines. Since all the water is collected in one large sump to be filtered, it's coming from every tank and no tank gets only it's own water returned but instead a mixture of water that was drained from all the tanks. > > > > There is a large U/V filter also, in this system, but no U/V filter can take the full flow of any central filtration system. As an example, the large pump that moves all the water from all the tanks back to them may move the water at a rate of 1000 or 2000 GPH. U/V filters are designed to have a flow rate through them at a much slower rate (perhaps 200 GPH or less), to ensure that the water will have a sufficient exposure in time for the ultraviolet rays to be effective in killing off any pathogens and suspended algae. So, this means that while some of the flow is directed through the U/V filter with each pass of the same water mixture, most of it bypasses the U/V filter. The U/V's effectiveness is dependent upon multiple passes of the water mixture with each return of the water mixture, but you can see by this that there will always be a portion of the water that is never exposed to the U/V ray as it's bypassing the U/V filter. > > > > So, Yes -- there's always the chance that Ich and any other diseases can spread from tank to tank, however slim this chance may be. BUT -- it doesn't take much for some pathogens to effect some species which ere never exposed to them. A number of domesticated species will contract pathogens brought into the system by wild fish even though they will be in a different tank. One major example of this is -- unless the central filtration system is maintained impeccably (which it seldom is) -- Any of our domestic Angelfish are prone to just this situation of being exposed to pathogens in a central filtration system that they've never been exposed to before. They just cannot handle it; i/e., Angelfish cannot tolerate being in a central filtration system -- they will almost invariably fold up (perish) in short time, often within the week. This is one fish that should not be displayed in a central filtration system, for resale. > > > > As for treating an individual tank for a disease, each tank's fill pipe has a valve on it, which can be used to isolate the tank at these times when it becomes necessary. The medication then, will not be diluted as it will remain only in that tank. > > > > For anyone contemplating buying Angelfish from a store having a central filtration system -- forget about it. Odds are 10 to 1 that your new purchases will be dead within 2 weeks -- and more probably, within 1 week. Unless an Angelfish breeder knows that a store's central filtration system is being maintained impeccably, it's best not to sell to such a store as numerous losses will almost always occur, which will need replacing almost as fast as they're being delivered, if the breeder "guarantees" them. I knew of only one such store in my local area that maintained their central filtration system in a manner being able to maintain Angelfish without incident, and had a nice account with them selling to them every week and this was a PetCo store. Unfortunately, they were taken over in time by a PetSmart store which, although they used the same existing central system, they just don't maintain it properly. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was wondering how water treatment and changes are done in stores with many aquariums? How are they performing water changes? How much water is interconnected? > > > I think I heard from a salesperson at PetCo that all the tanks share the same filtration. Is that possible or did I misunderstood? Does that mean if one tank has e.g. ich parasites they all get it potentially? > > > And if they treat one tank the medicine gets dilutes soon through the total system? > > > Or do they always medicate (like antibiotics) to make sure there are no bigger outbreaks? > > > > > > Just being curious.... > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53425	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

Hi Gemi, Welcome to the group. You certainly have got the bug! a 75 gallon is a really nice sized tank, what are you looking to put in it? On the subject of your daughter's tank, I don't know a lot specifically about tropical fish [I'm a Carp man!] but for sure it would be better to have her tank permanently set up in one location as transporting fish is not only stressful for them but successfully transporting an entire established tank means tearing it all down & rebuilding it at the other end, you'd need various water tight containers plus some kind of battery operated airstones so is very time consuming & a lot of work even for a small 10 gallon system such as this. John*<o)))< * On 3 April 2012 15:33, Gemi S <imgnr@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi All, > > I'm a new member of this forum and just wanted to say how much I > appreciate the discussions about cycling and plants. A friend gave me her > unused 29 gallon tank this winter and I am hooked, although I realize I > have a lot to learn. In fact, I just bought a 75 gallon tank so I can get > some slightly larger fish. > > I'm just getting my college-age daughter set up with a 10 gallon tank > (also a gift from the above friend). She plans on having guppies, a cory or > two and possibly some tetras or white cloud mountain minnows. She'll be > going back to school in the fall and was wondering if it's possible to > (relatively) safely transport her fish somehow so she can have them with > her during the school year? It's a 4-hour drive for her. Any tips on doing > this - or is it better to just keep them in one place permanently? Thanks! > > Best, > Gemi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53426	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Hi Sue, If you are happy with your pond as it is & everything sounds like it is really thriving then I would carry on not touching it, never fix anything that is not broken, that is a recipe for disaster! From the dimensions you have given your pond is around 2,500 UK gallons so it will have a nicely established eco system. How long has it been there & is it set in trees or an open area? John*<o)))< * On 1 April 2012 22:41, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > Thank you. I don't have a system. I just have a pond and that's it! > Everything is thriving! My pond is over 5 feet deep and at least 10 feet > across the circle. I don't do anything but sit by it and watch my fish swim > like crazy! In the spring I have a pair of mallards that hang out but don't > nest near me. But no system. I don't touch it and it is thriving! I love > it! Sue > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Sue, > > > > Welcome to the group. I don't know much about poisonous plants so I > cannot > > give you a definitive list but certainly one general type of plant to > avoid > > is anything prickly or thorny such as Holly, Blackberry or Rose bushes. > Not > > only is that a danger to the fish if any of it falls into the water but > > it's a nightmare when you are doing pond maintenance, I got the scars to > > prove it! Also if possible avoid any overhanging trees, swallowed pine > > cones have been responsible for many Koi deaths & large amounts of leaves > > falling in during the Autumn can seriously affect the pH if they are not > > removed swiftly. A large pond can be landscaped to sit in with it's > > surroundings-grass right down to the water looks impressive while smaller > > ponds look nice with rockeries at the back of them & some small trialing > > alpine plants either set directly into the scree/rockery or in pots & > > perhaps a few shrubs at the top to hide the filtration system. Can you > let > > us know approximately how large your pond is & also do you have anything > > specific in mind? If you could post some pictures of your system that > would > > be really useful. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 1 April 2012 04:14, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the > > > winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I > do > > > not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? > I do > > > not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my > fish! > > > > > > Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53427	From: susan m.	Date: 4/3/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

We are near trees but on the edge...in a yard.  I do not want to add anything to the pond but I would love to plant a flower garden right near the pond.  But I do not want to put anything near the pond that could harm it.  I also need to get rid of some of the cat tails.  They seem to be taking over.  Other than putting a boat in the pond and pulling the cat tails do you have any ideas?  Sue --- On Tue, 4/3/12, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: outside ponds To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 7:09 PM   Hi Sue, If you are happy with your pond as it is & everything sounds like it is really thriving then I would carry on not touching it, never fix anything that is not broken, that is a recipe for disaster! From the dimensions you have given your pond is around 2,500 UK gallons so it will have a nicely established eco system. How long has it been there & is it set in trees or an open area? John*<o)))< * On 1 April 2012 22:41, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > Thank you. I don't have a system. I just have a pond and that's it! > Everything is thriving! My pond is over 5 feet deep and at least 10 feet > across the circle. I don't do anything but sit by it and watch my fish swim > like crazy! In the spring I have a pair of mallards that hang out but don't > nest near me. But no system. I don't touch it and it is thriving! I love > it! Sue > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Sue, > > > > Welcome to the group. I don't know much about poisonous plants so I > cannot > > give you a definitive list but certainly one general type of plant to > avoid > > is anything prickly or thorny such as Holly, Blackberry or Rose bushes. > Not > > only is that a danger to the fish if any of it falls into the water but > > it's a nightmare when you are doing pond maintenance, I got the scars to > > prove it! Also if possible avoid any overhanging trees, swallowed pine > > cones have been responsible for many Koi deaths & large amounts of leaves > > falling in during the Autumn can seriously affect the pH if they are not > > removed swiftly. A large pond can be landscaped to sit in with it's > > surroundings-grass right down to the water looks impressive while smaller > > ponds look nice with rockeries at the back of them & some small trialing > > alpine plants either set directly into the scree/rockery or in pots & > > perhaps a few shrubs at the top to hide the filtration system. Can you > let > > us know approximately how large your pond is & also do you have anything > > specific in mind? If you could post some pictures of your system that > would > > be really useful. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 1 April 2012 04:14, Sue <lovemym8@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Do any of you have outside ponds and fish? Our fish go dormant over the > > > winter and come to again in March. I want landscape around my pond. I > do > > > not want to hurt my ponds eco system. Are there plants I should avoid? > I do > > > not use chemicals.....so I hope I can landscape without hurting my > fish! > > > > > > Sue. (Ps I'm new here!!) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53428	From: kbgwp	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

Hi Gemi, As you probably expect, it would be best to keep them in one place permanently. I do have a few ideas for you/her. The easiest would be just get another 10 gallon tank for college. Moving fish, 4+ hours away, might be rough on them but they ship fish so it must be possible. A small inverter for your car/truck could be used to keep an air pump and even a heater running while she drives there. Might be able to move the fish to a clean bucket with their own water for transporting. If you move the aquarium as well as the fish, I would make sure to save your gravel in a separate bucket with a small bit of water to try to save the good bacteria. Same thing with the filters except plastic bags should work there. Doing this might keep from having to cycle the tank again. Be sure to acclimate the fish to the tank and get the temperature set before adding the fish. Better idea is to buy the fish close to college after the tank has been set up and cycled. ...Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gemi S" <imgnr@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm a new member of this forum and just wanted to say how much I appreciate the discussions about cycling and plants. A friend gave me her unused 29 gallon tank this winter and I am hooked, although I realize I have a lot to learn. In fact, I just bought a 75 gallon tank so I can get some slightly larger fish. > > I'm just getting my college-age daughter set up with a 10 gallon tank (also a gift from the above friend). She plans on having guppies, a cory or two and possibly some tetras or white cloud mountain minnows. She'll be going back to school in the fall and was wondering if it's possible to (relatively) safely transport her fish somehow so she can have them with her during the school year? It's a 4-hour drive for her. Any tips on doing this - or is it better to just keep them in one place permanently? Thanks! > > Best, > Gemi >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53429	From: m davis	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

1. get large cooler 2. put large plastic bag in it 3. fill with 3 gallons of water--from ur tank, preferably 4. tie off bat 5.inflate bag--u might arrange with local pet store to inflate bag---maybe buy a fish from 'em 6--u're ready 2 go  good luck; monica ________________________________ From: kbgwp <kbgwp@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish Hi Gemi, As you probably expect, it would be best to keep them in one place permanently.  I do have a few ideas for you/her.  The easiest would be just get another 10 gallon tank for college. Moving fish, 4+ hours away, might be rough on them but they ship fish so it must be possible.  A small inverter for your car/truck could be used to keep an air pump and even a heater running while she drives there.  Might be able to move the fish to a clean bucket with their own water for transporting. If you move the aquarium as well as the fish, I would make sure to save your gravel in a separate bucket with a small bit of water to try to save the good bacteria.  Same thing with the filters except plastic bags should work there.  Doing this might keep from having to cycle the tank again. Be sure to acclimate the fish to the tank and get the temperature set before adding the fish. Better idea is to buy the fish close to college after the tank has been set up and cycled. ...Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Gemi S" <imgnr@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I'm a new member of this forum and just wanted to say how much I appreciate the discussions about cycling and plants. A friend gave me her unused 29 gallon tank this winter and I am hooked, although I realize I have a lot to learn. In fact, I just bought a 75 gallon tank so I can get some slightly larger fish. > > I'm just getting my college-age daughter set up with a 10 gallon tank (also a gift from the above friend). She plans on having guppies, a cory or two and possibly some tetras or white cloud mountain minnows. She'll be going back to school in the fall and was wondering if it's possible to (relatively) safely transport her fish somehow so she can have them with her during the school year? It's a 4-hour drive for her. Any tips on doing this - or is it better to just keep them in one place permanently? Thanks! > > Best, > Gemi > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53430	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Hi Sue, Just about any Alpine & rockery plant will be fine, just avoid anything spiny, prickly or spiky & also nothing that overhangs the pond but I'm afraid that is the limit of my botanical knowledge! I don't want to recommend anything that is going to be a hazard to the fish so hopefully someone on here can give you more specifics about that. With regard to the Cattails, in the couple of ponds I visit that have them I cut them down at the end of the Summer to just above the water line & that keeps them coming back nicely without taking over. I generally wade in but yours is a deep pond at 5 feet & so I see your problem although I wonder if it is possible for you to put some sturdy timber planks across from side to side so that you can cut them down that way? If you do then be sure to cut everything above the lowest possible water level & that way you will not risk the fish injuring themselves on the cut stems. How far from the bank are the ones you want to get rid of? Of course if they are getting too obtrusive & clogging the pond you will have no option other than to take them out completely from the roots & then there is no option but to go in & do it. John*<o)))< * On 4 April 2012 03:34, susan m. <lovemym8@...> wrote: > ** > > > We are near trees but on the edge...in a yard. I do not want to add > anything to the pond but I would love to plant a flower garden right near > the pond. But I do not want to put anything near the pond that could harm > it. I also need to get rid of some of the cat tails. They seem to be > taking over. Other than putting a boat in the pond and pulling the cat > tails do you have any ideas? > > Sue > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53431	From: susan m.	Date: 4/4/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Yes lol I think I need to put in a small boat and pull them out by the roots. I am going to put an iris patch near..but not touching the pond. They grow wild around here near lakes so I hope I'm safe with them. In fact I have some wild ones growing near my pond right now. Well I did and I am sure when spring has sprung they will be back! Sue ------------------------------ On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 7:48 PM CDT SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: >Hi Sue, > > Just about any Alpine & rockery plant will be fine, just avoid anything >spiny, prickly or spiky & also nothing that overhangs the pond but I'm >afraid that is the limit of my botanical knowledge! I don't want to >recommend anything that is going to be a hazard to the fish so hopefully >someone on here can give you more specifics about that. > >With regard to the Cattails, in the couple of ponds I visit that have them >I cut them down at the end of the Summer to just above the water line & >that keeps them coming back nicely without taking over. I generally wade in >but yours is a deep pond at 5 feet & so I see your problem although I >wonder if it is possible for you to put some sturdy timber planks across >from side to side so that you can cut them down that way? If you do then >be sure to cut everything above the lowest possible water level & that way >you will not risk the fish injuring themselves on the cut stems. How far >from the bank are the ones you want to get rid of? > >Of course if they are getting too obtrusive & clogging the pond you will >have no option other than to take them out completely from the roots & then >there is no option but to go in & do it. > > John*<o)))< > >* >On 4 April 2012 03:34, susan m. <lovemym8@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> We are near trees but on the edge...in a yard. I do not want to add >> anything to the pond but I would love to plant a flower garden right near >> the pond. But I do not want to put anything near the pond that could harm >> it. I also need to get rid of some of the cat tails. They seem to be >> taking over. Other than putting a boat in the pond and pulling the cat >> tails do you have any ideas? >> >> Sue >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53432	From: Gemi Sasson and Eric Brickson	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

Thanks for the ideas, everyone! I read somewhere that someone had used a cooler like Monica suggested, but it was big enough to surround the inflated fish bag(s) with packing peanuts or air-filled bags to reduce jarring. I realize such a long drive would be stressful for the fish, but I think the bigger issue my daughter has to consider is who will take care of her fish during the longer breaks in spring and fall when she comes home to visit? Hmm, yes, I think she'll have to just leave them home. Fish are the only pets they are allowed to have at school. All the best, Gemi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53433	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/5/2012
Subject: Re: Hello! And a question about transporting fish

She could always purchase a male or female betta and bring it back and forth from/to school with her. A single fish would be a lot easier to transport, and a betta should transport okay in a long drive if there is plenty of air in the bag for them to breathe. Plus you can keep a betta in a large jar (or 1-2 gallon container if you want to give your betta a bigger home), then just bring the betta home in a container and keep him/her in the 10 gallon while she is visiting. Just a thought. Amber On 4/5/2012 5:42 AM, Gemi Sasson and Eric Brickson wrote: > > Thanks for the ideas, everyone! I read somewhere that someone had used a > cooler like Monica suggested, but it was big enough to surround the > inflated > fish bag(s) with packing peanuts or air-filled bags to reduce jarring. I > realize such a long drive would be stressful for the fish, but I think the > bigger issue my daughter has to consider is who will take care of her fish > during the longer breaks in spring and fall when she comes home to visit? > Hmm, yes, I think she'll have to just leave them home. Fish are the only > pets they are allowed to have at school. > > All the best, > > Gemi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53434	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/6/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

Hi Sue, For what it's worth there's at least one pond I visit that has an iris patch on it's bank. John*<o)))< * On 5 April 2012 04:37, susan m. <lovemym8@...> wrote: > ** > > > > Yes lol I think I need to put in a small boat and pull them out by the > roots. > > I am going to put an iris patch near..but not touching the pond. They grow > wild around here near lakes so I hope I'm safe with them. In fact I have > some wild ones growing near my pond right now. Well I did and I am sure > when spring has sprung they will be back! > > Sue > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53435	From: Kevin	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: fish tanks in new hampshire

Im looking for a 10 to 20 gallon fresh water fish tank that would be nice if it had a filter and stones/pebles thanks you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53436	From: William M	Date: 4/8/2012
Subject: Re: outside ponds

In one of the ponds that I have dug myself, I put some bare rooted iris in the shallow area (just covering the roots) and they thrived. Not all iris can grow with their roots in water. These iris thrived and divided very well. If you go to a good nursery that sells pond equipment and plants for the pond, you will have a better chance of finding a plant that can tolerate your climate. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Sue, > > For what it's worth there's at least one pond I visit that has an iris > patch on it's bank. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 5 April 2012 04:37, susan m. <lovemym8@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > > Yes lol I think I need to put in a small boat and pull them out by the > > roots. > > > > I am going to put an iris patch near..but not touching the pond. They grow > > wild around here near lakes so I hope I'm safe with them. In fact I have > > some wild ones growing near my pond right now. Well I did and I am sure > > when spring has sprung they will be back! > > > > Sue > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53437	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/9/2012
Subject: freshwater sunfish

Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would be great! Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53438	From: joe t	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Hello jshsb86 (?) The only thing I can tell you about these fish.....(all together??!!) is you better have one hell of a big tank....and a good filter system to keep the water moving. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53439	From: kwondrash	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Reef capable LED lights?

I'm researching upgrading my lighting system. I only have a small FOWLR, 30 gallon, but would like to try zooanthids. I've been reading alot on Marineland's lights, especialy the reef capable ones. They are expensive though..I've seen 18-24" ones for about $150 Is anyone using LEDs right now? Likes/dislikes, and do the smaller ones (ie double row of lights, a step down from Reef capable) work for Zoos? Would like a little input please....thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53440	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

I've never kept them with the flag fish, but I've kept sunfish... they can be very aggressive and will happily eat anything they think will fit into their mouths and they are not beyond chewing on smaller fish. They're also very dirty fish, would compare them to oscars and other large cichlids in regards to waste output, so good filtration is needed. They also can be very territorial, so make sure they have plenty of space and lots of decor. Nippy... yes... so watch the fins on the flag fish. I would supervise that situation carefully, especially as the sunfish grow. First sign of aggression is when I would be removing the flag fish. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@...> wrote: > > Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would be great! Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53441	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Sorry my first answer was cut short, had to go answer my phone... The other thing I wanted to add is that such a situation with mixing in flag fish would be temporary at best... won't work long term once the sunfish grow much larger than the flag fish. I've kept flag fish, just not with sunfish because they just aren't a suitable mix. And I agree with the other post about needing a HUGE tank... the sunfish get pretty large and need a lot of space. Don't crowd them or they'll take each other out as well. Hope this helps... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@...> wrote: > > Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would be great! Thanks! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53442	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 4/10/2012
Subject: Re: Reef capable LED lights?

I bought the marineland lights for my freshwater tank and I love them. The only caveat to that is I had to mod the power system to allow for the day light and moon light to be on separate power supplies so I can put the daylight on a timer. I do recall seeing one that had a timer built in, but that was pretty expensive. The fix was pretty simple it involved taking the rocker switch out of the picture and putting each light section on its own PS and then then plugging the PS for the daylighting into a timer. The moonlighting stays on, so that stays in a regular outlet. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kwondrash Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 10:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Reef capable LED lights? I'm researching upgrading my lighting system. I only have a small FOWLR, 30 gallon, but would like to try zooanthids. I've been reading alot on Marineland's lights, especialy the reef capable ones. They are expensive though..I've seen 18-24" ones for about $150 Is anyone using LEDs right now? Likes/dislikes, and do the smaller ones (ie double row of lights, a step down from Reef capable) work for Zoos? Would like a little input please....thanks! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53443	From: Ray	Date: 4/11/2012
Subject: Re: Aw Carp!

Hi Kai, Just a reminder in case you're thinking of making it, NJAS will be holding their Spring Auction event this coming Sunday (April 15th) -- same place as the Swap Meet, Lyndhurst, NJ Elks Club. If you're still after a purple Betta, let me know if you want me to ask Rich Martucci if he would bring one for you and what kind (Half-Moon, Crowntail, etc.) and the price. Also, if you want a same-color, same-strain pair (matching female). Otherwise, it's pot luck as far as what kind and what colors are in the auction, but the prices are unbeatable.. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kuradi8" <kuradi8@...> wrote: > > I lost a day this week and thought today is Friday, not Saturday. > > Don't anyone else miss this event in Lyndhurst, NJ today! > http://njas.net/documents/swapper.pdf > > Sorry, Ray! I'll catch up with you at another event. > ~Kai >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53444	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Unusual behavior

Hi, I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. Thanks for the advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53445	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior

Hi Steve,   Your not saying tank size or maintenance here.  What are your water parameters?  pH, nitrate, nitrite readings and most important, ammonia. Jewels are for the most part, given age anywhere from 1 or 2" young to 6 to 7"s at maturity.  If you have 18 of them in one tank, you may simply have an over crowding problem.   This is something that a lot of folks forget, the fishs size. Sometimes with having a tank up so long and being use to it just plain being there,  that they forget the fish they put in there last year are larger now.    Finally, are these fish eating at all?  Normally, seldom, just not as much not at all? Your not giving us enough information on what maybe be probable cause.   bill in pa --- On Thu, 4/12/12, parkpac@... <parkpac@...> wrote: From: parkpac@... <parkpac@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:11 AM Hi, I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them  are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. Thanks for the advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53446	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!

Hi Steve, Your not saying tank size or maintenance here. What are your water parameters? pH, nitrate, nitrite readings and most important, ammonia. Jewels are for the most part, given age anywhere from 1 or 2" young to 6 to 7"s at maturity. If you have 18 of them in one tank, you may simply have an over crowding problem. This is something that a lot of folks forget, the fishs size. Sometimes with having a tank up so long and being use to it just plain being there, that they forget the fish they put in there last year are larger now. Finally, are these fish eating at all? Normally, seldom, just not as much not at all? Your not giving us enough information on what maybe be probable cause. bill in pa --- On Thu, 4/12/12, parkpac@... <parkpac@...> wrote: From: parkpac@... <parkpac@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:11 AM Hi, I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them  are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. Thanks for the advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53447	From: Patrick	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@...> wrote: > I have an established tank What size? > with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. A lot of fish. Hope it is a big tank. > Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are > swimming near the top. > > Anyone have any ideas what I should check? To second what Bill already said in his reply, have you done any sort of water testing? pH, ammonia, and nitrites would be the main ones. How about regular maintenance? Are you changing water on a regular basis? If so, how much and how often? Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53448	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Thank you for the information. I had heard mixed reviews on the two species mixing. I have a 55 and was going to have 1 pumkinseed and was wondering what other fish could be in the same tank. It will be well planted and sand on tye bottom. Thank you for the help! Jon --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Sorry my first answer was cut short, had to go answer my phone... > The other thing I wanted to add is that such a situation with mixing in flag fish would be temporary at best... won't work long term once the sunfish grow much larger than the flag fish. I've kept flag fish, just not with sunfish because they just aren't a suitable mix. > > And I agree with the other post about needing a HUGE tank... the sunfish get pretty large and need a lot of space. Don't crowd them or they'll take each other out as well. > > Hope this helps... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@> wrote: > > > > Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would be great! Thanks! > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53449	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!

Hi Bill, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Jewels are about 2-3 inches right now. This morning in the tank appears to have a breeding pair that has taken over the right side of the tank. All the others are grouping on the far left. Never raised Jewels before and am excited that they might be mating. Thanks, Steve From: bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior---repost---i hope! Hi Steve, Your not saying tank size or maintenance here. What are your water parameters? pH, nitrate, nitrite readings and most important, ammonia. Jewels are for the most part, given age anywhere from 1 or 2" young to 6 to 7"s at maturity. If you have 18 of them in one tank, you may simply have an over crowding problem. This is something that a lot of folks forget, the fishs size. Sometimes with having a tank up so long and being use to it just plain being there, that they forget the fish they put in there last year are larger now. Finally, are these fish eating at all? Normally, seldom, just not as much not at all? Your not giving us enough information on what maybe be probable cause. bill in pa --- On Thu, 4/12/12, mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> wrote: From: mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> Subject: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:11 AM Hi, I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. Thanks for the advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53450	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!

Hi Steve, Jewels are great fish but if you have 18 in anything but a 200 gallon tank, you’ve got trouble and quite a number of funerals to attend! These fish are known to be aggressive but with mating at such a young age, predicting what will be the outcome is difficult at best. If you have the tank space and availability, I would recommend that you get as many of the other fish out as soon as possible unless their tank mates are big enough to defend themselves. Make sure your pair are well fed and continue with your regular tank maintenance and keep an eye on them. If they are a pair, and spawn, you’ll know it. Of course, cigars are not necessary! bill in pa --- On Thu, 4/12/12, parkpac@... <parkpac@...> wrote: > From: parkpac@... <parkpac@...> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior---repost---i hope! > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 1:43 PM > Hi Bill, > > Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Jewels are about > 2-3 inches right now. This morning in the tank appears to > have a breeding pair that has taken over the right side of > the tank. All the others are grouping on the far left. Never > raised Jewels before and am excited that they might be > mating. > > Thanks, Steve > > From: bill 1433 > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior---repost---i > hope! > >   > Hi Steve, > > Your not saying tank size or maintenance here. What are your > water > parameters? pH, nitrate, nitrite readings and most > important, ammonia. > Jewels are for the most part, given age anywhere from 1 or > 2" young to 6 to 7"s > at maturity. If you have 18 of them in one tank, you may > simply have an > over crowding problem. > > This is something that a lot of folks forget, the fishs > size. Sometimes with having > a tank up so long and being use to it just plain being > there, that they forget > the fish they put in there last year are larger now. > > Finally, are these fish eating at all? Normally, seldom, > just not as much not at all? > Your not giving us enough information on what maybe be > probable cause. > > bill in pa > > --- On Thu, 4/12/12, mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net > <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> wrote: > > From: mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net > <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:11 AM > > Hi, > > I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in > it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that > some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that > they had paired off and were beginning to breed. > Don’t think so . Half of them  are > spending too much time near the top but they are not > gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. > > Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the > filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some > crushed coral in it. > > Thanks for the advice. > > Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask > ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to > receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time > in a single email > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the > No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read > messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to > receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53451	From: m davis	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!

jewels are beautiful, but they are also meaner'n rattlesnakes when breeding and will take  on other cichlids and anything else that gets in the way of their caring for their babies. i had a pair that took over 2/.3 of a 30 gallon tank and chased everything out of their "nest". good luck   ________________________________ From: "parkpac@..." <parkpac@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior---repost---i hope! Hi Bill, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Jewels are about 2-3 inches right now. This morning in the tank appears to have a breeding pair that has taken over the right side of the tank. All the others are grouping on the far left. Never raised Jewels before and am excited that they might be mating. Thanks, Steve From: bill 1433 Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior---repost---i hope!   Hi Steve, Your not saying tank size or maintenance here. What are your water parameters? pH, nitrate, nitrite readings and most important, ammonia. Jewels are for the most part, given age anywhere from 1 or 2" young to 6 to 7"s at maturity. If you have 18 of them in one tank, you may simply have an over crowding problem. This is something that a lot of folks forget, the fishs size. Sometimes with having a tank up so long and being use to it just plain being there, that they forget the fish they put in there last year are larger now. Finally, are these fish eating at all? Normally, seldom, just not as much not at all? Your not giving us enough information on what maybe be probable cause. bill in pa --- On Thu, 4/12/12, mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> wrote: From: mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> Subject: [AquaticLife] Unusual behavior To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 2:11 AM Hi, I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them  are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. Thanks for the advice. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53452	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/12/2012
Subject: Re: Unusual behavior

Sit back and observe them where they can't see you... watch for aggression and territorial behavior. It may be that the others are chasing and keeping them there. Jewels can be very territorial and it may be that they are starting to mature and staking claim to territories. You didn't mention what size tank this is or how much decor is in it... or how big they are... you may be in need of a larger tank or more decor, or both. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I have an established tank with about 18 Jewel cichlids in it. Been set up for about 5 months. Today, I noticed that some are swimming near the top. At first, I thought that they had paired off and were beginning to breed. Don’t think so . Half of them are spending too much time near the top but they are not gasping. Did a partial water change but no difference. > > Anyone have any ideas what I should check? Gonna change the filter tomorrow. It’s A Rena 3 with some crushed coral in it. > > Thanks for the advice. > > Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53453	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Just a warning to you... even for 1 pumpkinseed, you are eventually going to need larger than a 55 gallon tank. These guys get big and they get dirty. If you want to save some money you would be better off starting out with a 75 or 90 gallon and let the fish grow into it instead of having to upgrade to the larger tank in a year... this especially applies if you intend to try mixing any other fish into the tank with it. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@...> wrote: > > Thank you for the information. I had heard mixed reviews on the two species mixing. I have a 55 and was going to have 1 pumkinseed and was wondering what other fish could be in the same tank. It will be well planted and sand on tye bottom. > > Thank you for the help! > Jon > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > Sorry my first answer was cut short, had to go answer my phone... > > The other thing I wanted to add is that such a situation with mixing in flag fish would be temporary at best... won't work long term once the sunfish grow much larger than the flag fish. I've kept flag fish, just not with sunfish because they just aren't a suitable mix. > > > > And I agree with the other post about needing a HUGE tank... the sunfish get pretty large and need a lot of space. Don't crowd them or they'll take each other out as well. > > > > Hope this helps... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@> wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would be great! Thanks! > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53454	From: acousticwriter@aol.com	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Freshwater fish shows in the Midatlantic Area

Hi everyone, I am interested in attending some freshwater fish shows this year, specifically in the midatlantic area. I live near Baltimore, Md area but would be willing to drive from NC to PA. Does anyone know of any shows or clubs having shows this year, in these specified areas? Thxs. Jodie ----- Sent from my Virgin Mobile.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53455	From: joe t	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Hello Jon Once again, You are going to need a very big tank. I am sure a 55 gal is not going to cut it. Especially the way you are talking in your inquiries, the way I understnd them, you intend to put more fish in with them. I don't know what kind of accomodations you have. If you can use a 100 gallons or better You may be able to keep them. That's a big "IF". It depends on your 1) filtering system 2) If you don't overstock the tank, and 3) If you can (and are willing to) make partial water changes often. Most of all, if you are going to keep this in your residence --as opposed to a basement for instance -- you better check the floor load capacity. A big tank like that is a lot of weight! I hope I am not sounding too negative, but I want you to know what you are getting yourself into. If you can not do these things than it is not fair to you or the fish. I am writing this in a hurry so I am sure there is something I may have missed that I should have told you. Amber seems to be up on Sunnies and the others you mentioned. Anyone into these fish, help me out here please.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53456	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/13/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Hi Jon, If you do live in a flat or intend to place your tank in an upstairs room the couple of links below should be useful. In all probability you will be absolutely fine because the maximum floor strengths are usually far in excess of anything you could possibly install. I live in a first floor flat & before I installed my 100 [UK] gallon tank + 20 gallon plumbing & sump I pulled up some of the floorboards across the living room & measured the spacing between the joists & also the size of the joists. Before putting the floorboards back I made sure that the joists were not cut through anywhere from central heating or electrical installation plus I conformed that they went through the load bearing wall & came out the other side [my kitchen] as one piece of timber. From this info I ascertained that the maximum 'live' load in the middle of my living room floor would be around 2.5 tons-that's like a large 4x4 standing in your house! So, seeing as my tank weighs just over half a ton, is located 5" from a load-bearing wall & spans across 6 joists I am well within the structural capabilities of my building. Also ensure that the tank is sitting on a stand & that stand is a box-section running base rather than legs which are no good because all that weight is focused on just the contact points which are the legs & that can cause the legs to puncture the floorboards. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm John*<o)))< * On 14 April 2012 00:57, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Jon > > Once again, You are going to need a very big tank. I am sure a 55 gal is > not going to cut it. Especially the way you are talking in your inquiries, > the way I understnd them, you intend to put more fish in with them. > > I don't know what kind of accomodations you have. If you can use a 100 > gallons or better You may be able to keep them. That's a big "IF". It > depends on your 1) filtering system 2) If you don't overstock the tank, and > 3) If you can (and are willing to) make partial water changes often. Most > of all, if you are going to keep this in your residence --as opposed to a > basement for instance -- you better check the floor load capacity. A big > tank like that is a lot of weight! > > I hope I am not sounding too negative, but I want you to know what you are > getting yourself into. If you can not do these things than it is not fair > to you or the fish. I am writing this in a hurry so I am sure there is > something I may have missed that I should have told you. Amber seems to be > up on Sunnies and the others you mentioned. Anyone into these fish, help me > out here please. > > __ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53457	From: jshsb86	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

Thank you for all the information. You sre something on the web and they are not always right. I have my pumkinseed in my outdoor pond (which is about 2000 gallons and he is probably the friendliest fiah on there first to come ovrr and say hi at meal times. I was asking since i wanted to bring him on since he is a pretty fish amd is so used to me know. I guess i will leave him where he is and enjoy there thank you! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > If you do live in a flat or intend to place your tank in an upstairs room > the couple of links below should be useful. In all probability you will be > absolutely fine because the maximum floor strengths are usually far in > excess of anything you could possibly install. I live in a first floor flat > & before I installed my 100 [UK] gallon tank + 20 gallon plumbing & sump I > pulled up some of the floorboards across the living room & measured the > spacing between the joists & also the size of the joists. Before putting > the floorboards back I made sure that the joists were not cut through > anywhere from central heating or electrical installation plus I conformed > that they went through the load bearing wall & came out the other side [my > kitchen] as one piece of timber. From this info I ascertained that the > maximum 'live' load in the middle of my living room floor would be around > 2.5 tons-that's like a large 4x4 standing in your house! So, seeing as my > tank weighs just over half a ton, is located 5" from a load-bearing wall & > spans across 6 joists I am well within the structural capabilities of my > building. Also ensure that the tank is sitting on a stand & that stand is > a box-section running base rather than legs which are no good because all > that weight is focused on just the contact points which are the legs & that > can cause the legs to puncture the floorboards. > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html > http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > On 14 April 2012 00:57, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hello Jon > > > > Once again, You are going to need a very big tank. I am sure a 55 gal is > > not going to cut it. Especially the way you are talking in your inquiries, > > the way I understnd them, you intend to put more fish in with them. > > > > I don't know what kind of accomodations you have. If you can use a 100 > > gallons or better You may be able to keep them. That's a big "IF". It > > depends on your 1) filtering system 2) If you don't overstock the tank, and > > 3) If you can (and are willing to) make partial water changes often. Most > > of all, if you are going to keep this in your residence --as opposed to a > > basement for instance -- you better check the floor load capacity. A big > > tank like that is a lot of weight! > > > > I hope I am not sounding too negative, but I want you to know what you are > > getting yourself into. If you can not do these things than it is not fair > > to you or the fish. I am writing this in a hurry so I am sure there is > > something I may have missed that I should have told you. Amber seems to be > > up on Sunnies and the others you mentioned. Anyone into these fish, help me > > out here please. > > > > __ > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53458	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/15/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

He sounds very happy in your pond so I agree with you to just leave your friend in there! John*<o)))< * On 15 April 2012 17:45, jshsb86 <jshsb86@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank you for all the information. You sre something on the web and they > are not always right. I have my pumkinseed in my outdoor pond (which is > about 2000 gallons and he is probably the friendliest fiah on there first > to come ovrr and say hi at meal times. I was asking since i wanted to bring > him on since he is a pretty fish amd is so used to me know. I guess i will > leave him where he is and enjoy there thank you! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53459	From: redbarnfarms	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: plastic water fall liner

I want to add a water fall to my small pond and I was wondering if I can use any type of plastic sheeting under the water fall. I have no local supplier for pond supplies and have to mail order for everything. was wondering if I could use any heavy duty plastic sheeting, thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53460	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/17/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner

Hi Rose, I would say only one thing. It is possible to do what you are trying ……….But Believe it or not, it all goes to where you are located. Miami, Florida? No problem! Buffalo, New York------problem! Why? Excessive frost anything with water in or around it will heave upward because of frost on the first wintry day that you have. Result? All of your hard work would be lost. bill in pa --- On Tue, 4/17/12, redbarnfarms <redbarnfarm@...> wrote: > From: redbarnfarms <redbarnfarm@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] plastic water fall liner > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2012, 1:14 PM > I want to add a water fall to my > small pond and I was wondering if I can use any type of > plastic sheeting under the water fall. I have no local > supplier for pond supplies and have to mail order for > everything. was wondering if I could use any heavy duty > plastic sheeting, thanks, Rose > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53461	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner

HI Bill, I live in Northern WI and am well aware how frost moves things around. What I have in mind is a large center point rock that I would then line along the sides with smaller flatter rocks. I would put the plastic on top of the smaller rocks with a lip up the sides to create a basin that would slope into the pond. I would have the plastic overlap the edge of the pond liner. I would put a 8" length of pvc pipe attached to my tubing from the pump and the pvc would have holes along it width to form the waterfall. I would put rocks over this to conceal the source of the water. My rocks are from our fields and I have been coating the ones around the pond with an acrylic sealer so they look prettier. Would that be save to use on the rocks in the waterfall since the water will be running over them and into the pond? I am getting impatient for the weather to warm up. I am so wanting to put some koi in the pond but am afraid to buy some from a store and put them in the cold water. It is averaging about 32 to 40 at night here. I know koi can take cold water but figure since they are coming from a warm store it will be too much of a shock?? thanks for the help, Rose Hi Rose, I would say only one thing. It is possible to do what you are trying .But br> Believe it or not, it all goes to where you are located. Miami, Florida? No problem! Buffalo, New York------problem! Why? Excessive frost anything with water in or around it will heave upward because of frost on the first wintry day that you have. Result? All of your hard work would be lost. bill in pa Red Barn Farm Rose Herbst 11843 Flambeau Road Butternut, WI 54514 http://redbarnfarm.net/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53462	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/18/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner

Hi Rose, It sounds like you really have a plan there! On the fish themselves, I’m stumped, but if it were I, I would double check with the store you want to buy them from. If they have any brains at all, they are not going to give you bad advise or they just may never see you again. For the fish themselves, I have a family down the road a few miles from here and they have had their Koi in their front yard pond well over the 30-years that we have been living out here and those fish are huge, well into the 8 to 10 pound class easily. They do not take the fish in for the winter months and the pond itself is fed with a natural very cold-water under-ground spring, to the tune of about 56 degrees constant, winter and summer. About your pond construction Rose, I am afraid I can not help at all but there are some on this group that can, if they want to jump in here. Also, I would check very carefully both with friends and around the neighborhood. I am getting, that this is a first attempt on your part with this pond and we want you to be successful with it. To that end, find out what others are doing. You know, the where, when and how they are doing different things that you are suggesting. Surely you cannot be the only one in Wisconsin that wants or has a pond! <g> Please keep us posted and a few pictures if you can spare the time for them. Good luck! bill in pa --- On Wed, 4/18/12, Red Barn Farm <redbarnfarm@...> wrote: > From: Red Barn Farm <redbarnfarm@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plastic water fall liner > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 8:41 AM > HI Bill, I live in Northern WI and am > well aware > how frost moves things around. What I have in > mind is a large center point rock that I would > then line along the sides with smaller flatter > rocks. I would put the plastic on top of the > smaller rocks with a lip up the sides to create a > basin that would slope into the pond. I would > have the plastic overlap the edge of the pond > liner. I would put a 8" length of pvc pipe > attached to my tubing from the pump and the pvc > would have holes along it width to form the > waterfall. I would put rocks over this to conceal > the source of the water. My rocks are from our > fields and I have been coating the ones around > the pond with an acrylic sealer so they look > prettier. Would that be save to use on the rocks > in the waterfall since the water will be running > over them and into the pond? I am getting > impatient for the weather to warm up. I am so > wanting to put some koi in the pond but am afraid > to buy some from a store and put them in the cold > water. It is averaging about 32 to 40 at night > here. I know koi can take cold water but figure > since they are coming from a warm store it will > be too much of a shock?? thanks for the help, Rose > > Hi Rose, > > I would say only one thing. It is possible to do what you > are > trying ……….But > br> > Believe it or not, it all goes to where you are located. > Miami, Florida? > No problem! Buffalo, New York------problem! Why? Excessive > frost > anything with water in or around it will heave upward > because of frost > on the first wintry day that you have. Result? > All of your hard work would be lost. > > bill in pa > > Red Barn Farm > Rose Herbst > 11843 Flambeau Road > Butternut, WI 54514 > http://redbarnfarm.net/ > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53463	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: moss balls

I recently purchased 2 "moss balls" at PetsMart and was wondering if anyone has any tips on care? Thanks, Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53464	From: m davis	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls

http://www.aquariumforum.com/f15/moss-balls-21164.html   ________________________________ From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] moss balls I recently purchased 2 "moss balls" at PetsMart and was wondering if anyone has any tips on care? Thanks, Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53465	From: m davis	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls

don't u just drop 'em in ur aquariums and they keep algae down by eating the nutrients algae'd use? md   ________________________________ From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] moss balls I recently purchased 2 "moss balls" at PetsMart and was wondering if anyone has any tips on care? Thanks, Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53466	From: Efrain Montanez	Date: 4/19/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls

I bought a moss ball for my tank in order to clear the water, because by january and february thy tank became milky because the food. The person in Pet Smart told me that the ball will resolve the problem because the moss are good to absolve the high nitrate... But I also bought drops to water clarifier so I not sure if the moss do all the job alone :-) On Apr 19, 2012, at 4:12 PM, m davis wrote: > don't u just drop 'em in ur aquariums and they keep algae down by eating the nutrients algae'd use? md > > > ________________________________ > From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:57 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] moss balls > > I recently purchased 2 "moss balls" at PetsMart and was wondering if anyone has any tips on care? Thanks, Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53467	From: joe t	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but moss ball or no moss ball, it will NEVER replace partial water changes. They are a MUST for any good aquarium keeping. Also, Efrain, if you are making the water cloudy from putting food in the aquarium, then you are feeding way too much. Even with the moss ball and the water clarifier, you STILL need to do partial water changes to keep your aquarium healthy. The commercial people ei: sales people and the ones making the products will tell you almost anything to sell. But think about it. Without doing partial water changes all those things that are causing the problems for you to think you need these products are still in the water. So you are really putting a temporary band-aid on what is going to turn into a bigger problem. If you want the moss ball, use it because you like the way it looks. Don't beieve it is going to cure all the aquarium problems. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53468	From: judymoon18	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Intro

My name is Judy and I live in Wallace, ID with my 8 little dogs, 8 cats and a parrot. I want to once again have some Betta fish. I am hoping to get my first 5 gal tank set up. I remember that I should get the tank all set up and going for about a month before introducing the betta. I want to buy a couple of reference books about bettas. So if anyone can suggest some please advise. Judy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53469	From: Tonya	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Free Fish to new home

I have gotten a tank that came with some semi aggressive fish. I am wanting a community tank and so I would love to have someone either come get these fish. Thanks. 208-627-9142 1 Oscar, 2 chilids.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53470	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

You want to cycle the tank with ammonia (not just let it run) before adding the fish. I don’t do betta’s so I will let someone else recommend the book. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of judymoon18 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Intro My name is Judy and I live in Wallace, ID with my 8 little dogs, 8 cats and a parrot. I want to once again have some Betta fish. I am hoping to get my first 5 gal tank set up. I remember that I should get the tank all set up and going for about a month before introducing the betta. I want to buy a couple of reference books about bettas. So if anyone can suggest some please advise. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53471	From: Doug Forne	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

U do not need any books google Betta fish and u will have all the info u need. -- Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53472	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: moss balls

I agree 100% with Joe, stores-particularly the chains-will tell you anything just to separate you from your cash. Nearly all of the 'quick-fix' gizmos & magic potions that claim to make your life easier are a waste of money & will only add to your problems. There is no substitute for simplicity & elbow grease! Water changes together with good filtration & good management will solve most tank problems. Overfeeding is one of the biggest causes of fish mortalily & system meltdown, however most fish can survive for weeks with no direct feeding if they have to & I have never come across a fish dying from malnutrition. Rose & Efrain, can you tell us a little about your fish & tanks? My guess is that your problems are easily [& cheaply] fixed once we know what we are dealing with. John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2012 18:24, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Sorry to disappoint you guys, but moss ball or no moss ball, it will NEVER > replace partial water changes. They are a MUST for any good aquarium > keeping. > > Also, Efrain, if you are making the water cloudy from putting food in the > aquarium, then you are feeding way too much. Even with the moss ball and > the water clarifier, you STILL need to do partial water changes to keep > your aquarium healthy. The commercial people ei: sales people and the ones > making the products will tell you almost anything to sell. But think about > it. Without doing partial water changes all those things that are causing > the problems for you to think you need these products are still in the > water. So you are really putting a temporary band-aid on what is going to > turn into a bigger problem. > > If you want the moss ball, use it because you like the way it looks. Don't > beieve it is going to cure all the aquarium problems. > > joe t > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53473	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

Hi Judy, Welcome to the group.I cannot suggest any books on Bettas but I can recommend your doing a fishless cycle before adding any fish & that will ensure that they do not suffer any undue stress while the tank is building it's eco system because very high levels of toxins are necessary to do this. Hopefully some Betta experts can jump in here & give you some practical advice but meantime here is a good Betta website: http://nippyfish.net/ which includes a good article about doing your fishless cycle here: http://nippyfish.net/bettas-101/all-about-water/nitrogen-cycle/ John*<o)))< * On 20 April 2012 14:51, judymoon18 <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > ** > > > My name is Judy and I live in Wallace, ID with my 8 little dogs, 8 cats > and a parrot. > > I want to once again have some Betta fish. I am hoping to get my first 5 > gal tank set up. I remember that I should get the tank all set up and going > for about a month before introducing the betta. > > I want to buy a couple of reference books about bettas. So if anyone can > suggest some please advise. > > Judy > > > Reply to sender <judymoon1945@...?subject=Re%3A%20Intro> | Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Intro> | Reply via > web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbXA4bXY2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDY4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--?act=reply&messageNum=53468>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlamZ1OGNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/55;_ylc=X3oDMTMzYXF1MmIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDY4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMAR0cGNJZAM1NQ-->( > 14) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNHQzZ2NpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzQ5NTEwMDA-?o=6> > 10 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMXNwNDB0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53474	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/20/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

Just plain ammonia – like you buy at the drugstore Judy Moon John 3:16 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 4:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Intro You want to cycle the tank with ammonia (not just let it run) before adding the fish. I don’t do betta’s so I will let someone else recommend the book. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of judymoon18 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:51 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Intro My name is Judy and I live in Wallace, ID with my 8 little dogs, 8 cats and a parrot. I want to once again have some Betta fish. I am hoping to get my first 5 gal tank set up. I remember that I should get the tank all set up and going for about a month before introducing the betta. I want to buy a couple of reference books about bettas. So if anyone can suggest some please advise. Judy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4948 - Release Date: 04/20/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53475	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

Thanks Judy Moon John 3:16 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug Forne Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Intro U do not need any books google Betta fish and u will have all the info u need. -- Doug [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4949 - Release Date: 04/20/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53476	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: my small tank

I have written about my tank before. I have had fish all my life but now only have a 2 gallon acrylic round tank with 2 danios in it, undergravel filter. I had inquired in the past about getting rid of algae on the walls, whether keeping the tank in the dark for 3 days would work. Someone suggested "rubbing off the spots during a water change" well this algae is like cement and I would scratch the acrylic (found out the hard way) rubbing it off. Anyway I change 1/2 the water weekly and have live plants, to which I just added 2 moss balls, hence my question. I wasn't considering giving up my water changes, just curious about the moss balls as I'd never seen one before. All has been healthy for 2 years with indirect window light. I really enjoy fish but am too old and too many health problems and responsibilities these days to take on more.  Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53477	From: Judy Moon	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: Intro

Thanks so much. That was full of information. I saved it on my favorites. Judy Moon John 3:16 From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 3:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Intro Hi Judy, Welcome to the group.I cannot suggest any books on Bettas but I can recommend your doing a fishless cycle before adding any fish & that will ensure that they do not suffer any undue stress while the tank is building it's eco system because very high levels of toxins are necessary to do this. Hopefully some Betta experts can jump in here & give you some practical advice but meantime here is a good Betta website: http://nippyfish.net/ which includes a good article about doing your fishless cycle here: http://nippyfish.net/bettas-101/all-about-water/nitrogen-cycle/ John*<o)))< * On 20 April 2012 14:51, judymoon18 <judymoon1945@... <mailto:judymoon1945%40suddenlink.net> > wrote: > ** > > > My name is Judy and I live in Wallace, ID with my 8 little dogs, 8 cats > and a parrot. > > I want to once again have some Betta fish. I am hoping to get my first 5 > gal tank set up. I remember that I should get the tank all set up and going > for about a month before introducing the betta. > > I want to buy a couple of reference books about bettas. So if anyone can > suggest some please advise. > > Judy > > > Reply to sender <judymoon1945@... <mailto:judymoon1945%40suddenlink.net> ?subject=Re%3A%20Intro> | Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ?subject=Re%3A%20Intro> | Reply via > web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbXA4bXY2BF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDY4BHN lYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--?act=reply <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbXA4bXY2BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDY4BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--?act=reply&messageNum=53468> &messageNum=53468>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlamZ1OGNtBF 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2 50cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/55;_ylc=X3oDMTMzYXF1 MmIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUz NDY4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMAR0cGNJZAM1NQ-->( > 14) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNHQzZ 2NpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc 2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzQ5NTEwMDA-?o=6> > 10 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMXNwNDB0BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHA Ec3RpbWUDMTMzNDk1MTAwMA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4949 - Release Date: 04/20/12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53478	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/21/2012
Subject: Re: my small tank

Hi Rose, I also have an acrylic tank & I use the BiOrb cleaning pads like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/biOrb-Cleaning-Pads-x3-/360390402887?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e8f12347You will find many more online & probably get them from your LFS too. They work great without damaging your tank because they are designed for use on plastics. They have a rough side for stubborn spots & a smooth side for regular cleaning. I use a them on the inside & outside pads of a regular algae magnet although obviously this is not an option for your round tank but I think you will find it easy to simply just do a section of your tank prior to a water change & you will soon get on top of the problem. These pads seem to be quite tough & last for ages-I have used them to clean black algae off my clay planters that was positively welded on but also they are soft enough to gently remove the algae from some of my Vallis leaves without damaging the plant. John*<o)))< * On 21 April 2012 21:34, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have written about my tank before. I have had fish all my life but now > only have a 2 gallon acrylic round tank with 2 danios in it, undergravel > filter. I had inquired in the past about getting rid of algae on the walls, > whether keeping the tank in the dark for 3 days would work. Someone > suggested "rubbing off the spots during a water change" well this algae is > like cement and I would scratch the acrylic (found out the hard way) > rubbing it off. Anyway I change 1/2 the water weekly and have live plants, > to which I just added 2 moss balls, hence my question. I wasn't considering > giving up my water changes, just curious about the moss balls as I'd never > seen one before. All has been healthy for 2 years with indirect window > light. I really enjoy fish but am too old and too many health problems and > responsibilities these days to take on more. Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<bustamante.rose@...?subject=Re%3A%20my%20small%20tank>| Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20my%20small%20tank>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxaGQ4bGNxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTA0NzQ5MQ--?act=reply&messageNum=53476>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3A1cTFxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTA0NzQ5MQ--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53476;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZWRoY2cwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDc2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTA0NzQ5MQR0cGNJZAM1MzQ3Ng-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdGo1b2ZoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzUwNDc0OTE-?o=6> > 10 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcjJodTRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTA0NzQ5MQ--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53479	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS

Has anyone had experience with reverse flow powerheads? What are the pros and cons? I currently have a powerhead attached to my undergravel filter, pulling water up through the upright tube, but was wondering if the reverse flow is better or not. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53480	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Intake Basket

Installing my Eheim canister filter, but intake basket is only about 1/2 inch from the gravel... how far above the gravel should my intake basket be??   Thanks so much,   Kristy     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53481	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intake Basket

Hi Kristy, Not sure what the 'official' line is but I've always had mine resting on the gravel. As long as your individual gravel pieces are too large to fit through the intake grill, in the case of bare bottomed tanks then again have it actually on the bottom. The only time I think it would be better to have it raised up a little would be if you have either sand or a very fine gravel that will fit through the inlet grill so then you raise it up so there is not enough current to pull up the small substrate. Having the inlet low will maximise the amount of waste that it collects because the debris all tends to fall to the bottom eventually-these are great filters, virtually silent & so easy to maintain-I still have one running on my tank together with my big wet/dry. John*<o)))< * On 22 April 2012 19:39, Kristy Ratliff <kristylp@...> wrote: > ** > > > Installing my Eheim canister filter, but intake basket is only about 1/2 > inch from the gravel... how far above the gravel should my intake basket > be?? > > Thanks so much, > > Kristy > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53482	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/22/2012
Subject: Re: Intake Basket

I believe they work best about 1-2 inches away from the gravel. Amber On 4/22/2012 2:55 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Hi Kristy, > > Not sure what the 'official' line is but I've always had mine resting on > the gravel. As long as your individual gravel pieces are too large to fit > through the intake grill, in the case of bare bottomed tanks then again > have it actually on the bottom. The only time I think it would be better > to have it raised up a little would be if you have either sand or a very > fine gravel that will fit through the inlet grill so then you raise it up > so there is not enough current to pull up the small substrate. Having the > inlet low will maximise the amount of waste that it collects because the > debris all tends to fall to the bottom eventually-these are great filters, > virtually silent & so easy to maintain-I still have one running on my tank > together with my big wet/dry. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 22 April 2012 19:39, Kristy Ratliff <kristylp@... > <mailto:kristylp%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Installing my Eheim canister filter, but intake basket is only about 1/2 > > inch from the gravel... how far above the gravel should my intake basket > > be?? > > > > Thanks so much, > > > > Kristy > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53483	From: bill 1433	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: hello

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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53484	From: joe t	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS

Hello, LJFUQUA I've been keeping aquariums for well over 50 years and I have used quite a few undergravel filters. There has been quite a bit of controversy about the use of the UG filters. Some aquarists like them and others have reasons for not liking them. I, personally, have never had a problem with or without them. Meaning I have kept aquariums with the UG filter and with the box filters, and with the overflow filters, etc. In my opinion, the key to having a healthy aquarium is what amount of effort you are willing to put into its upkeep. Up side: With many of my UG filter tanks, I had beautiful plants. The filter sort of "sucked into the sand/gravel" nutrients for the roots to absorb. Down side: When I had to clean the tank -- a total clean that is -- It was a job getting all the roots, etc. out of the UG filter grates without destroying the plants. Up side to this is, of course, with proper maintenenace you don't have to tear down (completely clean) an aquarium for quite a while. As I have said many times when I answer a question, the most important thing to do with an aquarium is religious partial water changes. Makes no difference what kind of filter you are using. Could be the best one on the market. You still have to properly maintain a tank. That is where all the new aquarists make their mistake. They buy all the new bells and whistles thinking these contraptions and water conditioners of one sort or another are going to do all the work for them. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53485	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS

Hi Joe, You have an excellent point there-I was lead to believe that UG filters were no good but as I got more involved in the hobby I discovered that the most important thing is water changes & more water changes. I'm also with you regarding the all singing, all dancing bells & whistles gizmos! Simplicity & lo-tech wins the day for me every time. Something that I still am not sure about is tearing down/completely cleaning tanks-do you ever have to do this if the eco system & tank is working fine? Maybe you only need to do it if you keep certain types of aquatic animals? Other than an emergency, what situation would arise that meant you would have to completely strip down your tank? John*<o)))< * On 24 April 2012 16:43, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, LJFUQUA > > I've been keeping aquariums for well over 50 years and I have used quite a > few undergravel filters. There has been quite a bit of controversy about > the use of the UG filters. Some aquarists like them and others have reasons > for not liking them. I, personally, have never had a problem with or > without them. Meaning I have kept aquariums with the UG filter and with the > box filters, and with the overflow filters, etc. > > In my opinion, the key to having a healthy aquarium is what amount of > effort you are willing to put into its upkeep. > > Up side: With many of my UG filter tanks, I had beautiful plants. The > filter sort of "sucked into the sand/gravel" nutrients for the roots to > absorb. > > Down side: When I had to clean the tank -- a total clean that is -- It was > a job getting all the roots, etc. out of the UG filter grates without > destroying the plants. > > Up side to this is, of course, with proper maintenenace you don't have to > tear down (completely clean) an aquarium for quite a while. > > As I have said many times when I answer a question, the most important > thing to do with an aquarium is religious partial water changes. Makes no > difference what kind of filter you are using. Could be the best one on the > market. You still have to properly maintain a tank. > > That is where all the new aquarists make their mistake. They buy all the > new bells and whistles thinking these contraptions and water conditioners > of one sort or another are going to do all the work for them. > > joe t > > > Reply to sender<jett07002@...?subject=Re%3A%20REVERSE%20FLOW%20POWER%20HEADS>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20REVERSE%20FLOW%20POWER%20HEADS>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdHEyaWJzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDg0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTI4MjIwMg--?act=reply&messageNum=53484>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlODVsaGFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTI4MjIwMg--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53479;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NG9yZm9oBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDg0BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTI4MjIwMgR0cGNJZAM1MzQ3OQ-->( > 2) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcG41cG01BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzUyODIyMDI-?o=6> > 7 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbXVnc3J0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTI4MjIwMg--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53486	From: kwondrash	Date: 4/24/2012
Subject: Zoanthid corals

I'm planning on getting some zoanthid corals....I love the wide array of colors they come in! I have a T5 HO light, so I'm thinking that should be enough for them.... Can anyone share some of their helpful tips on these corals? I've read and studied online until my eyes glazed over, but would like to hear from real people now too LOL!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53487	From: joe t	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS

Hi John, The only time I do a complete tear down is if I am moving a tank or for some reason the eco-system of the tank goes completely whacko! Let's not forget we are trying to play God with a "little" (no matter how big your tank is, it's little compared to nature) body of water. And, of course, no matter how hard we try, we are never a good substitute for Mother Nature. I have literally kept tanks up for years without problems. But now and then something is going to go wrong. No matter what you do, fish may keep dying, or the water tests are never really where you would want them to be and won't change. Things like that. With good maintenance -- LOL, there I go again -- this does not happen often. That is why many of the accomplished aquarists say it is easier to maintain a larger aquarium than a small one. That is why maintenance is so important especially with a small aquarium where things can go bad fast since there isn't much area (volume, etc). With a larger aquarium you may have a little more leeway....providing proper maintenance was adhered to. Proper maintenance, by the way, (to me, anyway,) is, also, not overstocking a tank. Overstocking is a big contributor to aquarium problems. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53488	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Help Required about Arowana

Hello Guys, I purchased pair of Arowana 1 week ago. They were happy in Aquarium for few days. Nowadays I noticed some strange behavior. Both arowana's fight with each other once they come near & more than half day one arowana sits on the bottom of the aquarium. I am much upset & surprised to see such behavior. Can you please share your experience about that & assist me about this. BR///Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53489	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Zoanthid corals

You don't state how deep your tank is? Whether or not the single HO T5 fixture is enough or not will depend on tank depth. Also remember that light is only part of the process of keeping any coral, even something as "simple" as the zoanthids. Flow rate makes a big difference, as well as calcium levels alongside of overall good water quality/chemistry. Salinity also plays a part. I'm not sure if you're an experienced saltwater tank hobbyist or not or if this is your first tank, first venture into corals, etc?? If you have animals in the tank other than zoanthids (other corals, fish, other inverts such as shrimps, crabs, starfish, etc.) they will all play a role in your success or failure too. If you can post some details about your tank and what is in it, how long it has been set up, how much live rock is in it, type of substrate, filtration, water parameters (please include calcium), water temp, etc. then I can do more to help guide you. Lastly, please remember that not all zoanthids are created equal. Some have very specific lighting, flow rate, and feeding needs. Are the new zoanthids long tentacle or short? Photos would be a huge help, both of the zoanthids and the whole tank. I'll do what I can to advise you as you move forward but I can't always get here promptly these days. I have a lot going on here at home right now. If you post and don't get any answers right away feel free to email me off list either with questions or with a note asking me to check in on your thread. And... in case this is your first venture into saltwater... welcome to the marine hobby. :-) It can be a lot of fun if you're patient and willing to do the work involved to keep it thriving. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kwondrash" <kwondrash1@...> wrote: > > I'm planning on getting some zoanthid corals....I love the wide array of colors they come in! I have a T5 HO light, so I'm thinking that should be enough for them.... > Can anyone share some of their helpful tips on these corals? I've read and studied online until my eyes glazed over, but would like to hear from real people now too LOL! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53490	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Help Required about Arowana

Hi Faisal, I am not at all surprised that this is happening, Dawn told you specifically that it would after your post requesting information on March 22nd-here is what she posted then: *"Arowana, depends on what species you are talking about. The most popular tends to be the silver arowana, which reach a length of over 6 ft as adults. I have seen a few as large as 7 ft. Arowanas are very aggressive and keeping 2 of them together long term is also not a good idea, as they will fight until there is only one left and they will also compete aggressively for food, which often leaves 1 much smaller than the other and thus it tends to become food. There are a number of species of Arowana and not all get quite that large. The black Arowana, the other that is commonly found, will average around 3 - 3.5 ft in length full grown, so the tank size needed would be similar to that of the sharks mentioned above [1000 gallons]." * Even the Wikipedia entry for Arowana says that they are solitary fish: Please do the right thing for these 2 animals & return them to the store as soon as possible because they really are way too difficult for beginners & they will surely suffer & die if you don't. How big is your tank? let us know & we will be happy to advise you on easy beginners fish that are suitable for the size of aquarium that you have. John*<o)))< * On 25 April 2012 20:24, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Guys, > > I purchased pair of Arowana 1 week ago. They were happy in Aquarium for few > days. > > Nowadays I noticed some strange behavior. > > Both arowana's fight with each other once they come near & more than half > day one arowana sits on the bottom of the aquarium. I am much upset & > surprised to see such behavior. > > Can you please share your experience about that & assist me about this. > > BR///Faisal > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<faisal.ashhraf@...?subject=Re%3A%20Help%20Required%20about%20Arowana>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Help%20Required%20about%20Arowana>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcms3bzhjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTM4MzU2OA--?act=reply&messageNum=53488>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM2ZyaGZ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTM4MzU2OA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53488;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ajltc3U5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNDg4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTM4MzU2OAR0cGNJZAM1MzQ4OA-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYTZtaDA5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzUzODM1Njg-?o=6> > 6 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJla2lrdWdvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNTM4MzU2OA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53491	From: Manuel Mejia	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

Hello everyone. Hope everyone is having a nice spring.   So my son's goldfish tank is taking up too much space in his room on top of his dresser. I was thinking of getting this shelving unit at HomeDepot for it as it would allow me to have some additional storage options for his toys. The description indicates it can hold up to 200lbs per shelve. The aquarium is 20 gallons plus gravel; let's say 10lbs more. Based on my calculations the total weight would be around $177. Has anyone tried something similar? http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678 Thanks for your feedback. Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53492	From: m davis	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Help Required about Arowana

these can be viscious fish;one species can't tolerate others of its kind.  how big is ur tank? everything i've read says u need a 200 gal. tank.  http://www.fishlore.com/profiles_silver_arowana.htm http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=10310 good luck.mdavis From: Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help Required about Arowana Hello Guys, I purchased pair of Arowana 1 week ago. They were happy in Aquarium for few days. Nowadays I noticed some strange behavior. Both arowana's fight with each other once they come near & more than half day one arowana sits on the bottom of the aquarium. I am much upset & surprised to see such behavior. Can you please share your experience about that & assist me about this. BR///Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53493	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: REVERSE FLOW POWER HEADS

Thanks Joe, makes perfect sense! John*<o)))< * On 25 April 2012 18:56, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > The only time I do a complete tear down is if I am moving a tank or for > some reason the eco-system of the tank goes completely whacko! > > Let's not forget we are trying to play God with a "little" (no matter how > big your tank is, it's little compared to nature) body of water. And, of > course, no matter how hard we try, we are never a good substitute for > Mother Nature. > > I have literally kept tanks up for years without problems. But now and > then something is going to go wrong. No matter what you do, fish may keep > dying, or the water tests are never really where you would want them to be > and won't change. Things like that. > > With good maintenance -- LOL, there I go again -- this does not happen > often. That is why many of the accomplished aquarists say it is easier to > maintain a larger aquarium than a small one. That is why maintenance is so > important especially with a small aquarium where things can go bad fast > since there isn't much area (volume, etc). With a larger aquarium you may > have a little more leeway....providing proper maintenance was adhered to. > > Proper maintenance, by the way, (to me, anyway,) is, also, not > overstocking a tank. Overstocking is a big contributor to aquarium problems. > > joe t > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53494	From: houston@student.org	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

I have in the past used such a unit with tanks on every shelf. The only issue is it can become top heavy and less stable if much weight is high. Make sure the supporting rods are securely seated for each shelf. A servant of the Christ, Dick Houston houston@... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manuel Mejia Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 6:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Stand/Shelve <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8495157/grpspId=1705042752/msgId =53491/stime=1335403520/nc1=4836042/nc2=5758222/nc3=4025338> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53495	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

I believe water weighs about 2 pounds per gallon. Amber On 4/25/2012 2:10 PM, Manuel Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone. Hope everyone is having a nice spring. > > So my son's goldfish tank is taking up too much space in > his room on top of his dresser. I was thinking of getting this > shelving unit at > HomeDepot for it as it would allow me to have some additional storage > options > for his toys. The description indicates it can hold up to 200lbs per > shelve. > The aquarium is 20 gallons plus gravel; let's say 10lbs more. Based on my > calculations the total weight would be around $177. > Has anyone tried something similar? > http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678 > <http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678> > Thanks for your feedback. > Alex > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53496	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 4/25/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

I'm very sorry my last information was wrong. Each gallon of water weighs 8.35 lbs. On 4/25/2012 2:10 PM, Manuel Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone. Hope everyone is having a nice spring. > > So my son's goldfish tank is taking up too much space in > his room on top of his dresser. I was thinking of getting this > shelving unit at > HomeDepot for it as it would allow me to have some additional storage > options > for his toys. The description indicates it can hold up to 200lbs per > shelve. > The aquarium is 20 gallons plus gravel; let's say 10lbs more. Based on my > calculations the total weight would be around $177. > Has anyone tried something similar? > http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678 > <http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678> > Thanks for your feedback. > Alex > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53497	From: Vincent Hollands	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: How to rebuild a sump?

Please share with me info on how to rebuild a sump. My salt water tank is a 225 gallon.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53498	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

Correction, Amber, water weighs 8.55 pounds per gallon. Big difference! Enid ________________________________ From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Aquarium Stand/Shelve I believe water weighs about 2 pounds per gallon. Amber On 4/25/2012 2:10 PM, Manuel Mejia wrote: > > Hello everyone. Hope everyone is having a nice spring. > > So my son's goldfish tank is taking up too much space in > his room on top of his dresser. I was thinking of getting this > shelving unit at > HomeDepot for it as it would allow me to have some additional storage > options > for his toys. The description indicates it can hold up to 200lbs per > shelve. > The aquarium is 20 gallons plus gravel; let's say 10lbs more. Based on my > calculations the total weight would be around $177. > Has anyone tried something similar? > http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678 > <http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100006678> > Thanks for your feedback. > Alex > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53499	From: Mike Whitfield	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: freshwater sunfish

If you want to keep flagfish with sunfish I'd recommend pigmy sunfish IF you can find some tank bred and are willing to provide a varied diet of mostly live and frozen food. Otherwise dollar sunfish are your best bet, followed by stream longears and as a distant third, stream green sunfish. However green sunfish, while often a very beautiful fish on the smaller end of the sunfish and not in my experience too pugnacious in aquaria, have big mouths for their size and will eventually see a Big Mac when your flagfish swims by. Dollar sunfish top out at five or maybe six inches and are pretty tame. Longears from smaller streams tend to stay smaller - although 8" rather than 10" - 12" is still too big for a 55 - and longears have relatively small mouths and eat smaller prey. I've also kept redbreasts with minnows, topminnows and even darters without aggression, but I have a pond to release them in when they grow too large. Bluegills by contrast are minnow eaters, grow pretty large, aren't really very attractive until they get large, and can often be quite aggressive in aquaria. I'm not familiar with pumpkinseeds, but I believe they grow to four pounds as well. If you have a tank measured in the hundreds of gallons, large male bluegills in breeding colors are as gorgeous as anything tropical, but they are always hungry and can eat surprisingly large fish. Try NANFA.ORG and you'll probably find someone who has kept any combination of natives you can imagine. MW On 4/9/2012 11:52 AM, jshsb86 wrote: > > Has anyone kept freshwater sunfish ( i.e. Bluegills and Pumkinseeds) > with the american flagfish (jordanella floridae)??? Any advice would > be great! Thanks! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53500	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquarium Stand/Shelve

Hi Amber & Enid, I think you are both right-UK & US gallons! John*<o)))< * On 26 April 2012 14:37, Enid Rodriguez <gwydryn2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Correction, Amber, water weighs 8.55 pounds per gallon. Big difference! > Enid > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53501	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/28/2012
Subject: Re: How to rebuild a sump?

Hi Vincent, Please tell us more-has your sump broken in some way, do you need to re-fill it with media or are you just setting up? John*<o)))< * On 26 April 2012 18:23, Vincent Hollands <vincenthollands@...> wrote: > ** > > > Please share with me info on how to rebuild a sump. My salt water tank is > a 225 gallon. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53502	From: William	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: posting?

have not received much mail from here? just checking postings. bill in pa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53503	From: Joe Singing Wolf	Date: 4/29/2012
Subject: Senior Naturist in NE Oregon

Once again I'm entering into this field of interest but thinking of Wild Freshwater Native fish. Have been offered a large aquariam not being used but meanwhile preparing the space it will be placed in. Am retired from Biology dept of State University back East. Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53504	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/30/2012
Subject: Re: Senior Naturist in NE Oregon

How large is the aquarium? The size of the tank will dictate what you can put in it... if you're asking for ideas/suggestions on what fish to consider for this tank the group first needs to know how big the set up is. Thanks, Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Singing Wolf" <jwn_73@...> wrote: > > Once again I'm entering into this field of interest but thinking of Wild Freshwater Native fish. Have been offered a large aquariam not being used but meanwhile preparing the space it will be placed in. > > Am retired from Biology dept of State University back East. > > Joe >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53505	From: joe t	Date: 5/1/2012
Subject: Ray

Hi All. I have not been seeing any posts from Ray for what I think is quite awhile. Is he on vacation? joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53506	From: dougforne@ymail.com	Date: 5/4/2012
Subject: I am a happy man

Just got a Danner Supreme Superking filter. Traded some nice Angles for it. I have been looking for one of the superkings for a few years now. Wish they still made them, they just kick butt. LOL love them.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53507	From: bill 1433	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: I am a happy man

I remember them too Doug, great filters! bill in pa --- On Fri, 5/4/12, dougforne@... <2186436@...> wrote: > From: dougforne@... <2186436@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] I am a happy man > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 7:53 PM > Just got a  Danner Supreme > Superking filter. Traded some nice Angles for it. I have > been looking for one of the superkings for a few years now. > Wish they still made them, they just kick butt. LOL love > them. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when > replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is > NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of > the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new > subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. > , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by > clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53508	From: dougforne@ymail.com	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Danner Supreme Superking filter

Ya I know had them in the 70s 80s 90s love them, been looking all over the place for some old ones. Lucked out on this one, I gentleman passed away in Ohio and wife was selling everything, went with a buddy 2 look at all the stuff and there was a lot of stuff. Well my buddy seen it first and got it. Well LOL he had eyes for some of my Angles, so it was a win win for me. And I will never part with this one, when the motor goes on it I will have it rebuilt.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53509	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/5/2012
Subject: Re: I am a happy man

:) On 5/4/2012 6:53 PM, dougforne@... wrote: > > Just got a Danner Supreme Superking filter. Traded some nice Angles > for it. I have been looking for one of the superkings for a few years > now. Wish they still made them, they just kick butt. LOL love them. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53510	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food.....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53511	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Yellow Labs

Hi, I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two days ago. I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, and killed one of them this morning. Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? Thanks! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53512	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hi Noura, I don't know a lot about these fish because I am really a Carp man but until someone with specialist knowledge can help I hope I can do something. I believe Labs are quite territorial & your 3" Lab who lost his mate a couple of days ago is going to be pretty stressed & upset just now so introducing any more fish is going to give him a real headache. I would suggest immediately returning the new fish to the store & set the decor back as it was because he is hurting right now & needs some stability & the reassurance of familiar surroundings. Hopefully someone can give you some advice about introducing any new fish at a later date but I think you will end up loosing all your newbies & possibly your original fish as well to stress if you do nothing. John*<o)))< * On 8 May 2012 10:28, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, > I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two > days ago. > I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the > places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, > and killed one of them this morning. > Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish > store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? > > Thanks! > Noura > > > Reply to sender <n-taweel@...?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZGRldm8yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53511>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmgxMjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53511;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MmtqaWEyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3NwR0cGNJZAM1MzUxMQ-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdXFiZGxxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY0NzgwNzc-?o=6> > 7 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2dzNW9xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53513	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

Hi Liz, I'm sorry to hear of your problems-first thing is to not panic! your algae eater *may* just be stressed from the effects of the recent accident & the water warming up. Is there any sign of physical injury or deformity on him? Can you say how long the light was in the water before you noticed it? What is your regular tank temperature & what did it rise to? Check your parameters & do a one third water change, the tank having green algae around the edges does not necessarily mean they he has food. It is my understanding of algae eaters that they will only eat the algae off the tank if they are starving so a suitable food should always be fed such as pieces of cucumber/squash or algae wafers. How old is he & was he acting normally before the accident? Let us know what he is doing now & also tell us what your water readings are + how big your tank is & how many other fish you have in there. Some photos would be good if possible. John*<o)))< * On 8 May 2012 04:59, Liz <drivnkids4fun@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i > will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now > killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to > the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it > up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have > neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is > doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another > algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled > down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips > over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such > thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next > meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank > is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... > > > Reply to sender<drivnkids4fun@...?subject=Re%3A%20HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP>| Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdWh2OW1iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTEwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3Nzk4Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53510>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzU2YTFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3Nzk4Nw--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53510;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NTdnZGg1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTEwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3Nzk4NwR0cGNJZAM1MzUxMA-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZnRzMTFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY0Nzc5ODc-?o=6> > 7 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc2s1OXNuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3Nzk4Nw--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53514	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

I would have your water tested ASAP. It sounds like you may have either an ammonia spike or a nitrite spike. Both of those chemicals in too high a concentration will kill fish. How often do you clean your tank? How often do you perform water changes? Do you have adequate filtration? Do you have any live plants? I find they help maintain the nitrate cycle in my tank. ~Tamara -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Liz Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53515	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Liz, > > I'm sorry to hear of your problems-first thing is to not panic! your algae > eater *may* just be stressed from the effects of the recent accident & the > water warming up. Is there any sign of physical injury or deformity on him? > Can you say how long the light was in the water before you noticed it? What > is your regular tank temperature & what did it rise to? > > Check your parameters & do a one third water change, the tank having green > algae around the edges does not necessarily mean they he has food. It is > my understanding of algae eaters that they will only eat the algae off the > tank if they are starving so a suitable food should always be fed such as > pieces of cucumber/squash or algae wafers. > > How old is he & was he acting normally before the accident? Let us know > what he is doing now & also tell us what your water readings are + how big > your tank is & how many other fish you have in there. Some photos would be > good if possible. > > John*<o)))< > > * >OK I guess in my stress I did not make things clear....the fish that got the light dropped into its tank....yea boiled...I currently have neons and platties that are doing just fine and have for a long time...My cory is my oldest and he is beautiful....It is jut algae eaters. I have a 10 gal filtered tank. I filter with charcoal and add nitrate and ammonia filters. My cats drink about a gal of water a week so i just replace...last time I did more then that I lost all of my guppies.My tank stays clear and well filtered i just need a algae eater to handle the rocks and stuff. Water temp is 78 and no live plants....and well the oto didn't make it....I am going to take the eater in to be tested today and go from there but last time I did it was all fine.OH and I do run about .25 salt per gal.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53516	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@...> wrote: > > Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... > well water tested great, my supplier said that the ones that she had pulled a dead one that day ( it happens i mean she has thousands)so she gave me a new one and so far so good.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53517	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

What are the dimensions of the tank they are in? How big is the original lab? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 5:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Yellow Labs Hi, I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two days ago. I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, and killed one of them this morning. Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? Thanks! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53518	From: Noura	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

hmmmm... So now that Yellow "criminal" will get to keep the whole 20 G tank for him/her self? although it's not its fault, but I find it hard to feel sympathy for that fish right now! Thanks for the advise John. I, too, hope someone knows how to make this cichlid accept the new comers. Right now I separated them by using a 2 G bowl until I found a solution. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Noura, > > I don't know a lot about these fish because I am really a Carp man but > until someone with specialist knowledge can help I hope I can do something. > I believe Labs are quite territorial & your 3" Lab who lost his mate a > couple of days ago is going to be pretty stressed & upset just now so > introducing any more fish is going to give him a real headache. I would > suggest immediately returning the new fish to the store & set the decor > back as it was because he is hurting right now & needs some stability & > the reassurance of familiar surroundings. > > Hopefully someone can give you some advice about introducing any new fish > at a later date but I think you will end up loosing all your newbies & > possibly your original fish as well to stress if you do nothing. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 8 May 2012 10:28, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi, > > I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two > > days ago. > > I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the > > places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, > > and killed one of them this morning. > > Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish > > store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? > > > > Thanks! > > Noura > > > > > > Reply to sender <n-taweel@...?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZGRldm8yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53511>| Start > > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmgxMjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53511;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MmtqaWEyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3NwR0cGNJZAM1MzUxMQ-->( > > 1) > > Recent Activity: > > > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdXFiZGxxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY0NzgwNzc-?o=6> > > 7 > > > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2dzNW9xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53519	From: jackrobr	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Hey all.

Hello everybody. Just joined. Am I supposed to post here.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53520	From: Liz	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two days ago. > I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, and killed one of them this morning. > Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? > > Thanks! > Noura > i would buy a tank separator until everyone can get along. they are about 20 and easy to install

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53521	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hi Noura, That's right-the fish is not at fault at all-he's having a bad day too. As I said I don't know much about these types of fish but I wouldn't recommend keeping anything in a bowl for longer then a few hours so in the absence of any further advice I would seriously consider taking them back or getting them a separate tank real soon as I don't think integration is ever going to be an option here. John*<o)))< * On 8 May 2012 21:55, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > ** > > > > hmmmm... So now that Yellow "criminal" will get to keep the whole 20 G > tank for him/her self? although it's not its fault, but I find it hard to > feel sympathy for that fish right now! > Thanks for the advise John. I, too, hope someone knows how to make this > cichlid accept the new comers. Right now I separated them by using a 2 G > bowl until I found a solution. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > I don't know a lot about these fish because I am really a Carp man but > > until someone with specialist knowledge can help I hope I can do > something. > > I believe Labs are quite territorial & your 3" Lab who lost his mate a > > couple of days ago is going to be pretty stressed & upset just now so > > introducing any more fish is going to give him a real headache. I would > > suggest immediately returning the new fish to the store & set the decor > > back as it was because he is hurting right now & needs some stability & > > the reassurance of familiar surroundings. > > > > Hopefully someone can give you some advice about introducing any new fish > > at a later date but I think you will end up loosing all your newbies & > > possibly your original fish as well to stress if you do nothing. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 8 May 2012 10:28, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) > two > > > days ago. > > > I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed > the > > > places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new > ones, > > > and killed one of them this morning. > > > Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the > fish > > > store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Noura > > > > > > > > > Reply to sender <n-taweel@...?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > > > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> > | Reply > > > via web post< > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZGRldm8yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53511>| > Start > > > a New Topic< > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmgxMjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw-- > > > > > Messages in this topic< > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53511;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MmtqaWEyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3NwR0cGNJZAM1MzUxMQ-- > >( > > > 1) > > > Recent Activity: > > > > > > - New Members< > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdXFiZGxxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY0NzgwNzc-?o=6 > > > > > 7 > > > > > > Visit Your Group< > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2dzNW9xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw-- > > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53522	From: ken griffith	Date: 5/8/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

it's the size diff . also , if the 3" in male then you may have gotten all 1" males . I would return them and try to get all females and 2" if possible . Try a local breeder or ask your fish store to order them for you . Most will . I have a 4" lab and two females . I had bought a lab and he would chase it all the time . I asked my fish store and the ordered me two females . Now he only chases them when spawning . They both have spit fry so far . You may also need to upgrade to at least a 30 gal . Hope this helps . From: Noura <n-taweel@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Labs   hmmmm... So now that Yellow "criminal" will get to keep the whole 20 G tank for him/her self? although it's not its fault, but I find it hard to feel sympathy for that fish right now! Thanks for the advise John. I, too, hope someone knows how to make this cichlid accept the new comers. Right now I separated them by using a 2 G bowl until I found a solution. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Noura, > > I don't know a lot about these fish because I am really a Carp man but > until someone with specialist knowledge can help I hope I can do something. > I believe Labs are quite territorial & your 3" Lab who lost his mate a > couple of days ago is going to be pretty stressed & upset just now so > introducing any more fish is going to give him a real headache. I would > suggest immediately returning the new fish to the store & set the decor > back as it was because he is hurting right now & needs some stability & > the reassurance of familiar surroundings. > > Hopefully someone can give you some advice about introducing any new fish > at a later date but I think you will end up loosing all your newbies & > possibly your original fish as well to stress if you do nothing. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 8 May 2012 10:28, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi, > > I have one 3" Yellow Lab that lost its tank mate (another yellow lab) two > > days ago. > > I bought 4 small Y.Labs yesterday, each is 1" long. Although I changed the > > places of decorations in the tank, the old Lab is attacking the new ones, > > and killed one of them this morning. > > Is there anything I can do other than taking the big attacker to the fish > > store? Like making some steps to get him to accept the new comers? > > > > Thanks! > > Noura > > > > > > Reply to sender <n-taweel@...?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> | Reply > > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZGRldm8yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53511>| Start > > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmgxMjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53511;_ylc=X3oDMTM2MmtqaWEyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3NwR0cGNJZAM1MzUxMQ-->( > > 1) > > Recent Activity: > > > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdXFiZGxxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY0NzgwNzc-?o=6> > > 7 > > > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN2dzNW9xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjQ3ODA3Nw--> > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53523	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hello, Thanks for all your ideas. Remebering the case before in this tank, this 3" lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its terretorial mate "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a future! Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and these can't be sexed at this age. I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank just for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to grow together in peace. OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in this tank. Tough decision!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53524	From: Noura	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Hey all.

Welcome Jack, Yes here's where to post if you have anything to ask, or if you want to introduce yourself "and your fish". Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jackrobr" <jackrobr@...> wrote: > > Hello everybody. Just joined. Am I supposed to post here. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53525	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

What are the dimensions of the tank? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Labs Hello, Thanks for all your ideas. Remebering the case before in this tank, this 3" lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its terretorial mate "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a future! Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and these can't be sexed at this age. I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank just for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to grow together in peace. OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in this tank. Tough decision! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53526	From: D and g	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: hi all

i am thincking abot opining a fish store in my towne dos any one have any ideas on what lisences or parmits that i mite need or what it would calst any info is welcome

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53527	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hi Noura, I understand your dilemma now! Is getting a second tank for your 4 new Labs an option? That would be my first move. If not then maybe take the 3" Lab back to the store & keep your 4 new fish **but** I would want to make sure that he will be resold & not simply become food for another fish in the store [I have heard of that happening]. You may find that your 4 new fish will live peacefully for the time being but as they mature there may be territorial issues again? I don't know how these fish behave but it would certainly seem that way from what some of the others have said. I'm sorry I cannot help you more but I don't know enough about this species to advise you properly one way or another. John*<o)))< * On 9 May 2012 23:55, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > What are the dimensions of the tank? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Yellow Labs > > > Hello, > Thanks for all your ideas. Remebering the case before in this tank, this 3" > lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its terretorial mate > "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? > > Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a > future! > Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria > and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and > these can't be sexed at this age. > I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank > just > for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". > Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to grow > together in peace. > OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in > this > tank. > Tough decision! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53528	From: papsnpaints	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a small

Hello, My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me that I should do it. I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. So I have some questions. 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some sort before returning to the tub? 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run continuously. 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for chlorine for the safety of the fish? 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi would feed on them. 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. I welcome any suggestions or comments.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53529	From: littletanky	Date: 5/9/2012
Subject: Cobalt Aquatics

Has anyone heard of Cobalt Aquatics? I met a rep at my local store this weekend. They have some very nice products.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53530	From: Ken Griffith	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

Make sure the tub is sealed . Rust in the water will kill you fish . You cold use a pond sealant rather than having the tub restored . you will need to filter your water. You will need to know how much water the tub will hold first. Then figure about 4 to six times turn over of entire volume of water an hour ( Gallons tub will hold times 4 to six = pump size you will need ). This will filter your water the best and keep it clear. I would use a screen of some sort on the drain . The filter should be before the pump . They make external pond pumps . I use one for my tanks . I prefer Coral Life . I would use rock . Rock would be easier due to the drain hole size . Water should be treated first . Not too much sun . I could warm the water too high for the fish . The bug zapper would be an addition but you will still need Koi food . Just make sure it is very secure . If it falls in the water it could cause a whole mess of problems ( dead fish and fire). --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "papsnpaints" <wilsong@...> wrote: > > Hello, > My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. > I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me that I should do it. > I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. > So I have some questions. > 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some sort before returning to the tub? > 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. > 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run continuously. > 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for chlorine for the safety of the fish? > 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi would feed on them. > 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. > I welcome any suggestions or comments. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53531	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

Hi Garoleen, Welcome to the group. How big is the tub that you are planning on using? You need approx 200 gallon per fish if you are keeping Koi! Let us know the size & we can work from there. John*<o)))<* On 10 May 2012 03:44, papsnpaints <wilsong@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, > My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off > since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. > I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden > area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw > foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the > very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me > that I should do it. > I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head > above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My > employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add > to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a > submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a > drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. > So I have some questions. > 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some > sort before returning to the tub? > 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. > 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run > continuously. > 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for > chlorine for the safety of the fish? > 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi > would feed on them. > 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon > shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. > I welcome any suggestions or comments. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53532	From: papsnpaints	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

I measured and it's not as big as I thought. It's a HEAVY sucker tho! 60" long, 22" wide and 18" deep. I called an area green house that does water gardens and koi ponds. She told me my tub was too small for Koi as the small amount of water would heat up too much for Koi. However she did recommend having some small fish to eliminate the mosquito larvae. Should they be tropical fish? Can they withstand the changing temps between day and night? I was thinking some colorful local fish seined from the river but I'm certainly open to suggestions. The tub would be placed on the east side of my building and would be in the shade about half of the day. She recommended a filter before the water goes into the pump. She hasn't worked with inline pumps before. She prefers a "natural" filter using rocks but said some people with small ponds like a "UV" filter. For my situation I'm thinking a UV filter might be the ticket. I'm thinking I would make a pedestal that antique hand pump would be fastened to. The filter and pump would be inside the pedestal so it would be easily accessible but still hidden. I will take a closer look at it for the rust. I think there is some but not sure how much. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Garoleen, > > Welcome to the group. How big is the tub that you are planning on using? > You need approx 200 gallon per fish if you are keeping Koi! Let us know the > size & we can work from there. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 10 May 2012 03:44, papsnpaints <wilsong@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hello, > > My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off > > since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. > > I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden > > area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw > > foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the > > very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me > > that I should do it. > > I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head > > above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My > > employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add > > to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a > > submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a > > drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. > > So I have some questions. > > 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some > > sort before returning to the tub? > > 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. > > 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run > > continuously. > > 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for > > chlorine for the safety of the fish? > > 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi > > would feed on them. > > 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon > > shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. > > I welcome any suggestions or comments. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53533	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hey all.

Hi Jack, Welcome to the group-yes post here if you have any questions, problems or just want to tell us about your fish! John*<o)))< * On 8 May 2012 23:57, jackrobr <jackrobr@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello everybody. Just joined. Am I supposed to post here. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53534	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

Hello again Garoleen, Your tub works out at around around 100 US gallons but personally I don't think any type of fish would do well in there due to the exposed position because rapid temperature changes cause great stress. John*<o)))< * On 11 May 2012 03:55, papsnpaints <wilsong@...> wrote: > ** > > > I measured and it's not as big as I thought. It's a HEAVY sucker tho! 60" > long, 22" wide and 18" deep. I called an area green house that does water > gardens and koi ponds. She told me my tub was too small for Koi as the > small amount of water would heat up too much for Koi. However she did > recommend having some small fish to eliminate the mosquito larvae. Should > they be tropical fish? Can they withstand the changing temps between day > and night? I was thinking some colorful local fish seined from the river > but I'm certainly open to suggestions. The tub would be placed on the east > side of my building and would be in the shade about half of the day. > She recommended a filter before the water goes into the pump. She hasn't > worked with inline pumps before. She prefers a "natural" filter using rocks > but said some people with small ponds like a "UV" filter. For my situation > I'm thinking a UV filter might be the ticket. I'm thinking I would make a > pedestal that antique hand pump would be fastened to. The filter and pump > would be inside the pedestal so it would be easily accessible but still > hidden. > I will take a closer look at it for the rust. I think there is some but > not sure how much. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53535	From: Patrick	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > Welcome to the group. How big is the tub that you are planning > on using? You need approx 200 gallon per fish if you are keeping > Koi! Let us know the size & we can work from there. In my opinion Koi are strictly POND fish and by pond I am talking about a few feet deep and thousands of gallons. They are simply much too large a fish species to be kept in any sort of tank or tub. I think a standard bathtub might be about 200 gallons for a larger one, so likely an old Claw foot tub is probably somewhere in the 100-200 gallon range. I would even say Comets are also too large (when fully grown) and are best for real ponds. Also keep in mind that the viewing of a tub is much different than viewing in a tank. So fish that look impressive from the side may not look all that great from the top. So when looking for potential fish to stock, consider what they look like from above. Various smaller goldfish varieties might be a good choice. Maybe shubunkins or other fancy varieties. Keep in mind that many of these varieties were bred to be viewed from above as they were often kept in large open/wide topped vases or small ponds and so were "designed" to be viewed from up top. The other thing to consider is many of the fancy varieties are not great swimmers, so don't go nuts on the water flow as too much current will be a problem. And I would suggest if the original poster goes with a goldfish variety to allow roughly 10 gallons or more per adult fish. So for a 100 gallon bathtub, ten goldfish should be plenty and also be enough for visual interest. I would also suggest potted plants might be a good idea, ones that can grow up and out of the water. These will offer some shade and visual interest. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53536	From: William M	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

I was going to suggest some smaller water lillies and have the pump under the lillies to hide it and then you can pump the water through the slpiggot or shower head. I have used sump pumps in a kiddy litter pan with aquarium gravel around it and some sort of fine mess on top for a filtering medium. Depending on where you live, you might have t bring the fish in during the winter, if you are in a warmer area, you might be able to keep some sub tropical fish in it year round. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Welcome to the group. How big is the tub that you are planning > > on using? You need approx 200 gallon per fish if you are keeping > > Koi! Let us know the size & we can work from there. > > In my opinion Koi are strictly POND fish and by pond I am talking about a few feet deep and thousands of gallons. They are simply much too large a fish species to be kept in any sort of tank or tub. I think a standard bathtub might be about 200 gallons for a larger one, so likely an old Claw foot tub is probably somewhere in the 100-200 gallon range. I would even say Comets are also too large (when fully grown) and are best for real ponds. > > Also keep in mind that the viewing of a tub is much different than viewing in a tank. So fish that look impressive from the side may not look all that great from the top. So when looking for potential fish to stock, consider what they look like from above. Various smaller goldfish varieties might be a good choice. Maybe shubunkins or other fancy varieties. Keep in mind that many of these varieties were bred to be viewed from above as they were often kept in large open/wide topped vases or small ponds and so were "designed" to be viewed from up top. The other thing to consider is many of the fancy varieties are not great swimmers, so don't go nuts on the water flow as too much current will be a problem. > > And I would suggest if the original poster goes with a goldfish variety to allow roughly 10 gallons or more per adult fish. So for a 100 gallon bathtub, ten goldfish should be plenty and also be enough for visual interest. > > I would also suggest potted plants might be a good idea, ones that can grow up and out of the water. These will offer some shade and visual interest. > > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53537	From: William M	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

It would help to know the numbers instead of it is fine. That does not tell us anything really except that some fish might be alright in it. How long did you have the algae eater before it died. It culd be stress from the water that it coming from not being close to the water conditions that are in your tank especially if you are just adding water as it evaporates.You need to take out a gallon of aquarium water and replace it with a gallon of treated water of close to the same temp water and do this at least once a week, twice or more a week would be better. When I say treated I mean to get rid of chlorine and ammonia plus possibly heavy metals. Thre should be plenty of treatment choises from you LFS. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@...> wrote: > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@> wrote: > > > > Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... > > > well water tested great, my supplier said that the ones that she had pulled a dead one that day ( it happens i mean she has thousands)so she gave me a new one and so far so good. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53538	From: Liz	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

I didnt write down the numbers. The new one is just fine and hour by hour my tank is becoming clearer and clearer. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "William M" <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > > It would help to know the numbers instead of it is fine. That does not tell us anything really except that some fish might be alright in it. How long did you have the algae eater before it died. It culd be stress from the water that it coming from not being close to the water conditions that are in your tank especially if you are just adding water as it evaporates.You need to take out a gallon of aquarium water and replace it with a gallon of treated water of close to the same temp water and do this at least once a week, twice or more a week would be better. When I say treated I mean to get rid of chlorine and ammonia plus possibly heavy metals. Thre should be plenty of treatment choises from you LFS. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... > > > > > well water tested great, my supplier said that the ones that she had pulled a dead one that day ( it happens i mean she has thousands)so she gave me a new one and so far so good. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53539	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

Some things I can add to the current info already offered. There is no species of goldfish that is suitable for a 100 gallon tub. I read that Patrick suggested this tub was large enough for 10 goldfish... not sure where he got that information but that is wrong and will only result in a mess and dead fish. Please do not put goldfish into this size of a tub/container. If you are looking simply for mosquito control you might want to consider adding a dozen or so mosquito fish. They are not bright and colorful but they are very functional when it comes to eating mosquito larvae and even adult mosquitoes that land on the water's surface. They will also eat other types of small insect larvae and they are quite tolerant of summer time temperature fluctuations, but would not withstand cold winters. If you are in a climate where winter temperatures fall below 50 - 60 degrees during the day then you would want to bring the fish inside for the winter months. Mosquito fish don't get very large which would allow them to winter inside the house in a somewhat smaller tank (depending on how many you have, a dozen of them could safely winter inside in a 30 gallon tank). If you desire something more colorful for fish there are other options that don't get as large as goldfish and can tolerate pond conditions, however, it would help greatly if we knew what region/climate you live in? If you are in the states, knowing what state would be very helpful, if you are not then knowing what country would be most helpful. The first fish that is coming to mind for me is the bitterlings. There are blue as well as red varieties, and 2 of these could do very well in a 100 gallon tub, but I would not suggest more than 2 total because they still average 6 - 8 inches as adults. I can offer you more suggestions once I know the climate. In regards to the UV filter, please be aware that this is not going to filter waste from the water, but is intended to help prevent bacteria blooms, algae blooms, and parasites from surviving in your water. This IS a useful thing to have, especially if your pond/tub is going to receive a fair amount of sunlight, but it will NOT replace a basic filtration system meant to filter waste and keep the fish healthy. I hope this information is helpful to you and will check back in soon to see if you post about your climate so I can maybe offer other suggestions for appropriate fish species for your situation. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "papsnpaints" <wilsong@...> wrote: > > Hello, > My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. > I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me that I should do it. > I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. > So I have some questions. > 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some sort before returning to the tub? > 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. > 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run continuously. > 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for chlorine for the safety of the fish? > 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi would feed on them. > 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. > I welcome any suggestions or comments. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53540	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

I apologize for missing your location mentioned in your original post. I just caught it after writing my post to you. I'm not familiar with the yearly weather situation in Kansas... can you give an estimate of average temperatures for the year? (ie. summer, fall, winter, high/low temp averages?) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Some things I can add to the current info already offered. > There is no species of goldfish that is suitable for a 100 gallon tub. I read that Patrick suggested this tub was large enough for 10 goldfish... not sure where he got that information but that is wrong and will only result in a mess and dead fish. Please do not put goldfish into this size of a tub/container. > > If you are looking simply for mosquito control you might want to consider adding a dozen or so mosquito fish. They are not bright and colorful but they are very functional when it comes to eating mosquito larvae and even adult mosquitoes that land on the water's surface. They will also eat other types of small insect larvae and they are quite tolerant of summer time temperature fluctuations, but would not withstand cold winters. If you are in a climate where winter temperatures fall below 50 - 60 degrees during the day then you would want to bring the fish inside for the winter months. Mosquito fish don't get very large which would allow them to winter inside the house in a somewhat smaller tank (depending on how many you have, a dozen of them could safely winter inside in a 30 gallon tank). > > If you desire something more colorful for fish there are other options that don't get as large as goldfish and can tolerate pond conditions, however, it would help greatly if we knew what region/climate you live in? If you are in the states, knowing what state would be very helpful, if you are not then knowing what country would be most helpful. The first fish that is coming to mind for me is the bitterlings. There are blue as well as red varieties, and 2 of these could do very well in a 100 gallon tub, but I would not suggest more than 2 total because they still average 6 - 8 inches as adults. I can offer you more suggestions once I know the climate. > > In regards to the UV filter, please be aware that this is not going to filter waste from the water, but is intended to help prevent bacteria blooms, algae blooms, and parasites from surviving in your water. This IS a useful thing to have, especially if your pond/tub is going to receive a fair amount of sunlight, but it will NOT replace a basic filtration system meant to filter waste and keep the fish healthy. > > I hope this information is helpful to you and will check back in soon to see if you post about your climate so I can maybe offer other suggestions for appropriate fish species for your situation. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "papsnpaints" <wilsong@> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > My name is Garoleen Wilson from Smith Center KS. I have had aquariums off since childhood and tried my hand at a gold fish pond about 15 years ago. > > I own a small business and want to add a small relaxing/welcoming garden area to the entrance of my pet spa. I've always envisioned an antique claw foot bath tub as a water feature. Well I found a tub, purely by chance, the very day (actually within hours) I talked about doing this which tells me that I should do it. > > I want to pump the water from the tub into either a large shower head above the tub or through an antique hand pump to flow back into the tub. My employee has some 6" Koi from her aquarium that she thought we should add to the tub. I would prefer some sort of inline pump rather than a submersible pump that would be visible in the bottom of the tub. There is a drain with a fitting on the tub. There is a 110 outlet available. > > So I have some questions. > > 1. If we do add Koi does that water need to go through a filter of some sort before returning to the tub? > > 2. Does there need to be sand or river rock in the bottom of the tub. > > 3. I'm familiar with inline RV pumps but wonder if they can run continuously. > > 4. I have only city water available. Does the water need to be treated for chlorine for the safety of the fish? > > 5. I'm thinking of a small solar bug zapper above the tank if the Koi would feed on them. > > 6. What kind of Sun/Shade would a small pond/tub need. There is afternoon shade. There is a privacy fence on the north to block the wind. > > I welcome any suggestions or comments. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53541	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2012
Subject: Re: HHHHEEELLLLLLPPPPP

Hi Liz, Although clearer water is a good sign, unfortunately it does not always equate to better water *quality. *It's a pity you didn't write the readings down but would be better still if you had a test kit at home because relying on the store is a very hit & miss affair & also very subjective. A good water conditioner is AquaSafe by Tetra. As William said, the more often you do partial water changes the better your overall quality will be because you are diluting the toxins that are constantly building up. John*<o)))< * On 11 May 2012 16:19, William M <dreammaker2623@...> wrote: > ** > > > It would help to know the numbers instead of it is fine. That does not > tell us anything really except that some fish might be alright in it. How > long did you have the algae eater before it died. It culd be stress from > the water that it coming from not being close to the water conditions that > are in your tank especially if you are just adding water as it > evaporates.You need to take out a gallon of aquarium water and replace it > with a gallon of treated water of close to the same temp water and do this > at least once a week, twice or more a week would be better. When I say > treated I mean to get rid of chlorine and ammonia plus possibly heavy > metals. Thre should be plenty of treatment choises from you LFS. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Liz" <drivnkids4fun@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello. so here is my issue....i am a murderer. If you are an algae > eater i will kill you. What do i do? i put you in my tank and you DIE.I > have now killed off,otos,bulnose,plica.and oh a upside down,though he was > not due to the tank....my cat knocked the light into the tank and well > warmed it up.WHY,WHY,WHY,WHY...again i ask WWWHHHHHYYYYY. i am so > frustrated.I have neons and dwarf platties and had guppies at one time...i > had e cory that is doing just fine but i sit now watching the horrible > death of yet another algae eater...he is floating sideways at the top of > the tank tail curled down, the opitimy of dead yet when he floats into the > current he flips over...swims back to the top and "dies" again.my mothers > oto does no such thing he sticks like glue, freaks out then settles on his > next meal......please someone tell me what i am doing wrong..oh and yea the > tank is green around the edges sooooo yep he has food..... > > > > > well water tested great, my supplier said that the ones that she had > pulled a dead one that day ( it happens i mean she has thousands)so she > gave me a new one and so far so good. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53542	From: Garoleen Wilson	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

In reading the suggestions here and speaking with other people I have come to the conclusion that fish wouldn't be suitable for this tub. That's why it's best to ask for advice from more experienced people before jumping into something one knows little about. Thank YOU! I love the look of the old tub, its charm and because it's, well. a bath tub. My business is pet grooming and I thought it would tie in nicely. I think perhaps either make it a vessel for displaying greenery and flowering plants or make it a recirculating water feature on a smaller scale. Water flowing into a bucket covered by a screen and rocks to hide it the pumped back through the old well pump. A couple questions were asked about Kansas weather. It can be extremes over a hundred degrees in the summer, below zero in the winter and often lots of wind. Thank You for saving me a lot of trouble and expense. I still would love a fish pond and do have room at home. Then the issue would be keeping the raccoon outs (we have large dogs which that is there job) but keeping the dogs out would be the next issue, they love water. Maybe I better stick to something else... Again thank you all for your help. Garoleen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53543	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/12/2012
Subject: Re: New here - looking for some suggestions to a new project for a s

Hi Garoline, Thank *you*, It is so nice to be able to help when it has saved not only yourself a lot of time, money & trouble but also the fish from any suffering. Your tub will still look great as a display for plants or a water feature. On the subject of a pond for your home then both the problems you mentioned [raccoons & dogs] are easily solved-just let us know! John*<o)))<* On 12 May 2012 14:10, Garoleen Wilson <wilsong@...> wrote: > ** > > > In reading the suggestions here and speaking with other people I have come > to the conclusion that fish wouldn't be suitable for this tub. That's why > it's best to ask for advice from more experienced people before jumping > into > something one knows little about. Thank YOU! I love the look of the old > tub, its charm and because it's, well. a bath tub. My business is pet > grooming and I thought it would tie in nicely. I think perhaps either make > it a vessel for displaying greenery and flowering plants or make it a > recirculating water feature on a smaller scale. Water flowing into a bucket > covered by a screen and rocks to hide it the pumped back through the old > well pump. > > A couple questions were asked about Kansas weather. It can be extremes over > a hundred degrees in the summer, below zero in the winter and often lots of > wind. > Thank You for saving me a lot of trouble and expense. I still would love a > fish pond and do have room at home. Then the issue would be keeping the > raccoon outs (we have large dogs which that is there job) but keeping the > dogs out would be the next issue, they love water. Maybe I better stick to > something else... > > Again thank you all for your help. > > Garoleen > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<wilsong@...?subject=Re%3A%20New%20here%20-%20looking%20for%20some%20suggestions%20to%20a%20new%20project%20for%20a%20s>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20New%20here%20-%20looking%20for%20some%20suggestions%20to%20a%20new%20project%20for%20a%20s>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcGRnbmp2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTQyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjg1OTY2Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53542>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGt1OXBhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjg1OTY2Nw--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53542;_ylc=X3oDMTM2dTVqMzN0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTQyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjg1OTY2NwR0cGNJZAM1MzU0Mg-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYjhzZmRuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY4NTk2Njc-?o=6> > 8 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNzQ3M3FnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNjg1OTY2Nw--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53544	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/13/2012
Subject: Ray still here?

Hi all, recently somebody asked about Ray and I never saw an answer....? I wonder too that there were no more messages? I always valued his knowledge and helpful/friendly responses. Does anyone know what happened? I hope everything is all right!? Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53545	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi Nora, Yes, I'm still here, and I thank you very much both for your concern and for Joe T's concern when he asked about me two weeks ago. Good to know that I'm missed by at least a few of you. Have had bronchial pneumonia for about 3 1/2 weeks, which I'm over now -- although some occasional residual congestion problems seem to linger almost every morning. I'll be getting that checked out when I go back to my doctor this coming Wednesday, to have a more concerning issue of a heart problem symptom looked into. So, my illness is the main reason why I haven't been up to participating on the Group, although I've been continually monitoring and acting on the various messages that need approving (or rejecting, etc.) where I could. I've seen that Amber has taken on a greater workload with this, as well as I presume, both Harry and Mike; thanks all. The other major problem preventing me from doing much responding on the Group is that my regular computer crapped out and I'm now temporarily relegated to my old (read; ancient) computer with which I have numerous problems in trying to just navigate with it. It no longer allows me to just answer from my emails, nor can I reply directly by going to the Group site, as my Windows Server just doesn't permit it. Instead, I need to use one of the other servers such as Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird and Safari, etc., which lately has been giving me all sorts of problems. With each change of a page, even when hitting "Reply" to just be able to open as page to respond to a message on the Group, I'll get an error message each and every time telling me that; "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding." To proceed, I have the option of hitting either the "Stop Script" button or the "Continue" buttom to complete/enable the new page to come up -- or, I can just hit the "X" in the upper left to get rid of it (which I do most of the time), which tells you that there is really nothing wrong with the page's Script to begin with. On top of that though, with each change of a page I need to do, such as opening "Messages" on the Group, etc., or any other chore, the next page that comes up may be completely white (blank) except for the toolbar across the top. So then, I need to hit "Back" and go back to the previous page I just came from and try to do that same chore all over again -- like, hitting "Reply" again to be able to write a post to your message. I may need to do this up to about ten times before being able to actually bring up the Group page that now allows me to write a post to your message. As you can see, it can be a real bear to even make one post, and is surely no fun. It's very discouraging to try to do much posting. I'll be here for anyone needing further advice on anything, so just know I'll be around, depending on my future health. I hope to be upgrading to a better 'puter soon, too. Many thanks again for your concerns. Best, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > recently somebody asked about Ray and I never saw an answer....? I wonder too that there were no more messages? I always valued his knowledge and helpful/friendly responses. Does anyone know what happened? > > I hope everything is all right!? > > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53546	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hi Noura, For your 3" male Yellow Lab to be hiding from its "mate" (recently deceased), this mate would have had to be another male -- the most dominant of your Yellow Labs. Even if this mate were as female (which then wouldn't be as aggressive or dominant), your present 3" male Yellow Lab would not be missing her as Rift Lake Mouthbrooders do not establish pair bonds, so there's definitely no reason to feel sorry for him for that reason of his losing his "mate." Now getting back to the 5 fih (one 3" male and four 1" juveniles), there is NO WAY that they will get along in one tank. Although Yellow Labs are one of the more "peaceful" Malawi Cichlids, they are still territorial and any substantial difference in size will bring out the aggression of not only this much larger male Yellow Lab towards his much smaller conspecifics, but also this male's aggression as the previous lone and now dominant fish of the tank -- which he considers his territory. The main problem though, is the size difference, which he will constantly take advantage of since the others are so much smaller. For them to all get along somewhat more peacefully, the smaller ones would need to be at least 2 1/2" long -- and that would presume they are all females. For another male to coexist in this same tank with the 3" male and three 2 1/2" females, this extra male would need to be very nearly the same size as the 3" male. He (the extra male), would then take on female-like coloration in efforts to disguise himself and not receive the brunt of the 3" male's aggression. By this, you can see that it would take many months of raising these 1" Yellow Labs up to a suitable enough size to be able to handle themselves in the presence of the 3" male (which may be 3 1/2" by this time). Your best solution is to return this 3" male to your local fish store, as there's little chance that things would work out otherwise -- at least not at this time at these two different sizes. I'd recommend getting at least one more 1" yellow Lab while your at the fish store, and preferably two more if you can upgrade to a 29 (or 30 gallon long tank) -- which is really considered the minimum size tank to maintain this less-aggressive species. Five of any of these less-aggressive African Cichlids of the same size will usually get along together though, are are generally considered to be the absolute minimum number of this species to be housed together as a more peaceful group, but you may also need to add more rockwork to provide refuges. The more fish of a species of any of these mouthbrooders, the greater the chances that any aggression will be spread out between all of them and no one individual will be targeted by the dominant one. I don't recalling you mentioning anything about how much rockwork you installed when you first set the tank up with these fishes (and you had several different kinds at that time). Also, you still haven't answered what the dimension are to your 20 gallon tank; a 20 Gallon Long (30" long) is much better for these fish than a 20 Gallon High (24"), as the longer tank gives them more area to co-habit, reducing the aggression a bit. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > Thanks for all your ideas. Remembering the case before in this tank, this 3" lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its territorial mate "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? > > Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a future! > Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and these can't be sexed at this age. > I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank just for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". > Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to grow together in peace. > OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in this tank. > Tough decision! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53547	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi Ray, Good to hear from you, I'm sorry your computer is giving you grief-I run Firefox & had a similar problem some time ago when I was using an outdated version, the current version 12.0-here is a link to down load & install it: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ I hope you can get it sorted soon. John. On 14 May 2012 11:54, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Nora, > > Yes, I'm still here, and I thank you very much both for your concern and > for Joe T's concern when he asked about me two weeks ago. Good to know that > I'm missed by at least a few of you. Have had bronchial pneumonia for about > 3 1/2 weeks, which I'm over now -- although some occasional residual > congestion problems seem to linger almost every morning. I'll be getting > that checked out when I go back to my doctor this coming Wednesday, to have > a more concerning issue of a heart problem symptom looked into. So, my > illness is the main reason why I haven't been up to participating on the > Group, although I've been continually monitoring and acting on the various > messages that need approving (or rejecting, etc.) where I could. I've seen > that Amber has taken on a greater workload with this, as well as I presume, > both Harry and Mike; thanks all. > > The other major problem preventing me from doing much responding on the > Group is that my regular computer crapped out and I'm now temporarily > relegated to my old (read; ancient) computer with which I have numerous > problems in trying to just navigate with it. It no longer allows me to just > answer from my emails, nor can I reply directly by going to the Group site, > as my Windows Server just doesn't permit it. Instead, I need to use one of > the other servers such as Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird and Safari, etc., > which lately has been giving me all sorts of problems. With each change of > a page, even when hitting "Reply" to just be able to open as page to > respond to a message on the Group, I'll get an error message each and every > time telling me that; "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have > stopped responding." To proceed, I have the option of hitting either the > "Stop Script" button or the "Continue" buttom to complete/enable the new > page to come up -- or, I can just hit the "X" in the upper left to get rid > of it (which I do most of the time), which tells you that there is really > nothing wrong with the page's Script to begin with. > > On top of that though, with each change of a page I need to do, such as > opening "Messages" on the Group, etc., or any other chore, the next page > that comes up may be completely white (blank) except for the toolbar across > the top. So then, I need to hit "Back" and go back to the previous page I > just came from and try to do that same chore all over again -- like, > hitting "Reply" again to be able to write a post to your message. I may > need to do this up to about ten times before being able to actually bring > up the Group page that now allows me to write a post to your message. As > you can see, it can be a real bear to even make one post, and is surely no > fun. It's very discouraging to try to do much posting. I'll be here for > anyone needing further advice on anything, so just know I'll be around, > depending on my future health. I hope to be upgrading to a better 'puter > soon, too. Many thanks again for your concerns. > > Best, > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53548	From: joe t	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Glad you're OK, Ray. Sorry to hear about the pneumonia. Yes, the residuals will stay with you for a good while (if not forever). Every year about the same time my friends who have had pneumonia have a little bout with some sort of bronchitis. Nothing to take lightly, but if you do what you're supposed to, it doesn't last too long. Heart problems seem to come with the territory when you're getting up there. I have the same woes. Best regards. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53549	From: Noura T.	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hello Ray, and welcome back! The 20 G tank is a long one, not tall. 90x27 cm footprint. There's an artificial cave that I made out of cut pipes and covered with fine gravel. Two 4" cichlids would easily fit in. And the other work is a volcano that can only house one 1.5" cichlid. There's a hiding place for two small fish behind the filter, and there's a clay crock that can house a 3" fish. Is that enough? Any ideas for light handmade cavings that will fit in? Currently I'm separating the old Lab from the remaining 3 small Labs with a tank divider that me and my husband made at home last week. I was planning on taking the old Lab to the fish store tomorrow, but after reading your reply, I think I'll exchange it for two more 1" labs. The total number will become 5 fish. Thanks for your reply. Noura-Syria <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53546;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZHM5dm FkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNT Q2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY5OTgwOTE-> Re: Yellow Labs Posted by: "Ray" <mailto:sevenspringss@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> sevenspringss@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sevenspringss> sevenspringss Mon May 14, 2012 5:11 am (PDT) Hi Noura, For your 3" male Yellow Lab to be hiding from its "mate" (recently deceased), this mate would have had to be another male -- the most dominant of your Yellow Labs. Even if this mate were as female (which then wouldn't be as aggressive or dominant), your present 3" male Yellow Lab would not be missing her as Rift Lake Mouthbrooders do not establish pair bonds, so there's definitely no reason to feel sorry for him for that reason of his losing his "mate." Now getting back to the 5 fih (one 3" male and four 1" juveniles), there is NO WAY that they will get along in one tank. Although Yellow Labs are one of the more "peaceful" Malawi Cichlids, they are still territorial and any substantial difference in size will bring out the aggression of not only this much larger male Yellow Lab towards his much smaller conspecifics, but also this male's aggression as the previous lone and now dominant fish of the tank -- which he considers his territory. The main problem though, is the size difference, which he will constantly take advantage of since the others are so much smaller. For them to all get along somewhat more peacefully, the smaller ones would need to be at least 2 1/2" long -- and that would presume they are all females. For another male to coexist in this same tank with the 3" male and three 2 1/2" females, this extra male would need to be very nearly the same size as the 3" male. He (the extra male), would then take on female-like coloration in efforts to disguise himself and not receive the brunt of the 3" male's aggression. By this, you can see that it would take many months of raising these 1" Yellow Labs up to a suitable enough size to be able to handle themselves in the presence of the 3" male (which may be 3 1/2" by this time). Your best solution is to return this 3" male to your local fish store, as there's little chance that things would work out otherwise -- at least not at this time at these two different sizes. I'd recommend getting at least one more 1" yellow Lab while your at the fish store, and preferably two more if you can upgrade to a 29 (or 30 gallon long tank) -- which is really considered the minimum size tank to maintain this less-aggressive species. Five of any of these less-aggressive African Cichlids of the same size will usually get along together though, are are generally considered to be the absolute minimum number of this species to be housed together as a more peaceful group, but you may also need to add more rockwork to provide refuges. The more fish of a species of any of these mouthbrooders, the greater the chances that any aggression will be spread out between all of them and no one individual will be targeted by the dominant one. I don't recalling you mentioning anything about how much rockwork you installed when you first set the tank up with these fishes (and you had several different kinds at that time). Also, you still haven't answered what the dimension are to your 20 gallon tank; a 20 Gallon Long (30" long) is much better for these fish than a 20 Gallon High (24"), as the longer tank gives them more area to co-habit, reducing the aggression a bit. Ray --- In <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > Thanks for all your ideas. Remembering the case before in this tank, this 3" lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its territorial mate "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? > > Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a future! > Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and these can't be sexed at this age. > I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank just for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". > Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to grow together in peace. > OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in this tank. > Tough decision! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53550	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Hello Noura, Glad to see your 20 G tank is a long one. These fish much prefer having adequate area rather than water column height. As for your artificial cave (able to house two 4" Cichlids); note that it's preferable for each mouthbrooder to have a cave to itself. Preferably, an African Mouthbrooder set up should ideally have at least one additional cave than there are fish, and two additional caves would not be excessive. This is for more aggressive species, but may be kept in mind even for less aggressive species like these Labs when confining them to smaller than ideal tanks (if you had a 29 Gallon tank, you could include a total of 6 fish, which would help in distributing the aggression). You should not depend on any fish having to hide behind the filter. I wouldn't count the volcano as a hiding place either, especially as the fish grow larger. When I mentioned having more rockwork, I just assumed that even in Syria, that your local fish store would have an assortment of aquarium-safe rocks to sell for fish tanks. Here in the States, there's generally a variety of different kinds of rocks to buy. Many years ago, I bought two 50 pound (23 Kilo's) bushels of red shale just for this purpose, but as it's a local rock gathered in the neighboring State (Pennsylvania), it may not necessarily be available near you. For light, handmade caves that will fit in, I also use clay flowerpots, but with the bottom knocked out so that no fish being chased can get cornered in it. I also use 2" and 3" diameter PVC (hard plastic) pipe -- depending upon the size of the fish -- cut to lengths suitable to the size of the fish and the size of the tank. This may be what you have, which you covered with fine gravel. While you can add several more individual pipe caves over the tank's bottom, it's helpful too, to glue three of them together and then glue With silicone cement) two more pipes on top of these for fish being chased to swim into a pipe-cave that's more in line with the fish's swimming height off the bottom. Chased fish don't always think to dive to the bottom to gain access to a cave. You can also suspend a cave-pipe from the tank side or end so that it is just submersed beneath the surface, to give chased fish a place to retreat to when near the surface (many fish will often prefer to hide in an upper corner of the tank where they're vulnerable to attack). This gives them cover. BTW, while actual rocks may be heavy, keep in mind they are displacing their volume in water which, while not as heavy as solid rock, still weighs 8 1/3 pounds (3.76 Kilo's) per gallon; there's little danger of breaking the tank bottom when using rock as there isn't very much additional weigh (as compared to water), when using rocks. Wasn't aware you lost one of the four small Labs, but I may have read it and forgot about it. Yes, two more 1" Labs would be best. Try not to buy the very largest ones as they're more apt to be males (you want more males than females). It would be best if you could end up with two males and three females, but I know you can't tell them apart at this size. Best wishes with them, and don't be concerned that the 3" male will wind up as fish food for some larger fish or reptile. These fish are just too valuable for the shop owner to use this fish this way; he'd make much more money selling it as it's not a cheap fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hello Ray, and welcome back! > > The 20 G tank is a long one, not tall. 90x27 cm footprint. > > There's an artificial cave that I made out of cut pipes and covered with > fine gravel. Two 4" cichlids would easily fit in. > > And the other work is a volcano that can only house one 1.5" cichlid. > There's a hiding place for two small fish behind the filter, and there's a > clay crock that can house a 3" fish. > > Is that enough? > > Any ideas for light handmade cavings that will fit in? > > > > Currently I'm separating the old Lab from the remaining 3 small Labs with a > tank divider that me and my husband made at home last week. > > I was planning on taking the old Lab to the fish store tomorrow, but after > reading your reply, I think I'll exchange it for two more 1" labs. The total > number will become 5 fish. > > Thanks for your reply. > > Noura-Syria > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53546;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZHM5dm > FkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNT > Q2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMzY5OTgwOTE-> Re: Yellow Labs > > > Posted by: "Ray" > <mailto:sevenspringss@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> > sevenspringss@... <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sevenspringss> > sevenspringss > > > Mon May 14, 2012 5:11 am (PDT) > > > > > Hi Noura, > > For your 3" male Yellow Lab to be hiding from its "mate" (recently > deceased), this mate would have had to be another male -- the most dominant > of your Yellow Labs. Even if this mate were as female (which then wouldn't > be as aggressive or dominant), your present 3" male Yellow Lab would not be > missing her as Rift Lake Mouthbrooders do not establish pair bonds, so > there's definitely no reason to feel sorry for him for that reason of his > losing his "mate." > > Now getting back to the 5 fih (one 3" male and four 1" juveniles), there is > NO WAY that they will get along in one tank. Although Yellow Labs are one of > the more "peaceful" Malawi Cichlids, they are still territorial and any > substantial difference in size will bring out the aggression of not only > this much larger male Yellow Lab towards his much smaller conspecifics, but > also this male's aggression as the previous lone and now dominant fish of > the tank -- which he considers his territory. The main problem though, is > the size difference, which he will constantly take advantage of since the > others are so much smaller. For them to all get along somewhat more > peacefully, the smaller ones would need to be at least 2 1/2" long -- and > that would presume they are all females. For another male to coexist in this > same tank with the 3" male and three 2 1/2" females, this extra male would > need to be very nearly the same size as the 3" male. He (the extra male), > would then take on female-like coloration in efforts to disguise himself and > not receive the brunt of the 3" male's aggression. > > By this, you can see that it would take many months of raising these 1" > Yellow Labs up to a suitable enough size to be able to handle themselves in > the presence of the 3" male (which may be 3 1/2" by this time). Your best > solution is to return this 3" male to your local fish store, as there's > little chance that things would work out otherwise -- at least not at this > time at these two different sizes. I'd recommend getting at least one more > 1" yellow Lab while your at the fish store, and preferably two more if you > can upgrade to a 29 (or 30 gallon long tank) -- which is really considered > the minimum size tank to maintain this less-aggressive species. Five of any > of these less-aggressive African Cichlids of the same size will usually get > along together though, are are generally considered to be the absolute > minimum number of this species to be housed together as a more peaceful > group, but you may also need to add more rockwork to provide refuges. The > more fish of a species of any of these mouthbrooders, the greater the > chances that any aggression will be spread out between all of them and no > one individual will be targeted by the dominant one. I don't recalling you > mentioning anything about how much rockwork you installed when you first set > the tank up with these fishes (and you had several different kinds at that > time). Also, you still haven't answered what the dimension are to your 20 > gallon tank; a 20 Gallon Long (30" long) is much better for these fish than > a 20 Gallon High (24"), as the longer tank gives them more area to co-habit, > reducing the aggression a bit. > > Ray > > --- In <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > "Noura" <n-taweel@> wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > Thanks for all your ideas. Remembering the case before in this tank, this > 3" lab was constantly hiding behind the filter to avoid its territorial mate > "who died 3 days ago". Maybe they were both males? > > > > Now what I understand from some replies that these four labs don't have a > future! > > Changing the young ones for females is not an option, because I'm in Syria > and among all the conflicts I was lucky to even find these 1" labs, and > these can't be sexed at this age. > > I'm left with two options, because I don't want to leave the whole tank > just for one fish "he'll be miserable alone anyway". > > Either I give the big lab to the fish store and keep the young ones to > grow together in peace. > > OR , I take ALL these labs to the fish store and put another species in > this tank. > > Tough decision! > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53551	From: Ray	Date: 5/14/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi Joe, Thanks for your message; I wasn't aware though, that I can expect these periodic residual bouts of congestion which has gotten me discouraged in thinking I'd never get over this illness. I see now that it may be with me for some time, although it's annoying. I've been using mentholated cough drops which helps clear my throat, but I wasn't planning on living on them < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Glad you're OK, Ray. > > Sorry to hear about the pneumonia. Yes, the residuals will stay with you for a good while (if not forever). Every year about the same time my friends who have had pneumonia have a little bout with some sort of bronchitis. Nothing to take lightly, but if you do what you're supposed to, it doesn't last too long. > > Heart problems seem to come with the territory when you're getting up there. I have the same woes. > > Best regards. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53552	From: cobra427lady	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Welcome Back, Ray!

Great news to hear you are on the mend, Ray! This group values and respects your wisdom and though others can and do admirably pick up the torch, you are missed :-) Now I understand why you never replied to my direct email....hope you can get a new computer soon - try a Mac LOL I love mine! Oh, btw, I had such success with the albino lf bn plecs and german blue rams last year (4 large spawns each) that I have begun breeding multis and peacock gudgeons...I am getting spawns and fry within weeks of set up! The multis are comparatively easier to breed that the rams, but still fun to watch as they are harem breeding shell dwellers - they crack me up just watching them. I ordered the peacock gudgeons online & they just got here last week and I already had a spawn in the pvc tube, but the male ate them after 24 hours - oh, well, I hope he keeps trying. Practice makes perfect.... You were such a fount of information and I learned so much that I decided to branch out and try something new - thanks tons, Ray,for being a part of my endeavors! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53553	From: Ray	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Welcome Back, Ray!

Hi Clare, Nice to receive your message and kind words. I've always tried to advise others as best I know how. I have seen that others have filled in while I was recuperating, some messages not as correct as others, but it all balanced out right in the end. I guess I'll see what the doc has to say about my overall health tomorrow. Hadn't seen your direct mail. Don't know if I ever received it or not, or maybe I just missed it. My apologies for the omission though, and wished I'd have seen it to reply. So glad to hear of your successes with your fishes. I notice you've gotten into Tanganyika Cichlids. Yes, Multi's have become extremely popular. If you think they're fun to watch though, you should get some Neolamprologus brichardi (or one of the Julies). The N. brichardi are easier (than the Julidochomis) to pair off though, so I'd recommend these as a first choice -- and the N. brichardi "Daffodil" variety is real nice (and these fish don't get too big). With both this species of Neolamps or any of the Julies, the older spawns (juveniles) help the parents take care of the younger (fry) spawns that are just free-swimming. You can raise 3 or even 4 successive spawns together if you have the room, as none will get eaten and each spawn will look after the next in guarding them, etc. I'd highly recommend them as you're next acquisition if you enjoy watching them, as I'm sure you do. They're great to see as a group of different ages, each watching over the others. I was fortunate to be the first one in this country to have bred them when they were first imported, so they're still one of my particular favorites. Managed to get two breeding pairs going back then, and while I haven't had this species for a good while, a friend of mine recently gave me a bunch, so I'm back with them (LOL). Don't give up on the Gudgeons, they're too nice a fish to pass over; best of luck with them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@...> wrote: > > Great news to hear you are on the mend, Ray! This group values and respects your wisdom and though others can and do admirably pick up the torch, you are missed :-) > > Now I understand why you never replied to my direct email....hope you can get a new computer soon - try a Mac LOL I love mine! > > Oh, btw, I had such success with the albino lf bn plecs and german blue rams last year (4 large spawns each) that I have begun breeding multis and peacock gudgeons...I am getting spawns and fry within weeks of set up! The multis are comparatively easier to breed that the rams, but still fun to watch as they are harem breeding shell dwellers - they crack me up just watching them. I ordered the peacock gudgeons online & they just got here last week and I already had a spawn in the pvc tube, but the male ate them after 24 hours - oh, well, I hope he keeps trying. Practice makes perfect.... > > You were such a fount of information and I learned so much that I decided to branch out and try something new - thanks tons, Ray,for being a part of my endeavors! > > Cheers, > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53554	From: Ray	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi John, Good to be back. Yeah, the 'puter I'm using is really problematic. Thanks for the advice on upgrading to a newer version of my server, although it's easy for you to say since you had no problem doing it < g >. My relic refuses to accept a download of a newer version though, so I'm out of luck with that idea. When I tell it to download a newer version of what I'm using, it tells me to upgrade my operating system. Then, since this relic is too old, it refuses to upgrade my OS. I'll get straightened out with better equipment soon, but in the meantime I'll just have to plug along. Thanks very much for the suggestion though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Good to hear from you, I'm sorry your computer is giving you grief-I run > Firefox & had a similar problem some time ago when I was using an outdated > version, the current version 12.0-here is a link to down load & install it: > http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ > I hope you can get it sorted soon. > > John. > > On 14 May 2012 11:54, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > Yes, I'm still here, and I thank you very much both for your concern and > > for Joe T's concern when he asked about me two weeks ago. Good to know that > > I'm missed by at least a few of you. Have had bronchial pneumonia for about > > 3 1/2 weeks, which I'm over now -- although some occasional residual > > congestion problems seem to linger almost every morning. I'll be getting > > that checked out when I go back to my doctor this coming Wednesday, to have > > a more concerning issue of a heart problem symptom looked into. So, my > > illness is the main reason why I haven't been up to participating on the > > Group, although I've been continually monitoring and acting on the various > > messages that need approving (or rejecting, etc.) where I could. I've seen > > that Amber has taken on a greater workload with this, as well as I presume, > > both Harry and Mike; thanks all. > > > > The other major problem preventing me from doing much responding on the > > Group is that my regular computer crapped out and I'm now temporarily > > relegated to my old (read; ancient) computer with which I have numerous > > problems in trying to just navigate with it. It no longer allows me to just > > answer from my emails, nor can I reply directly by going to the Group site, > > as my Windows Server just doesn't permit it. Instead, I need to use one of > > the other servers such as Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird and Safari, etc., > > which lately has been giving me all sorts of problems. With each change of > > a page, even when hitting "Reply" to just be able to open as page to > > respond to a message on the Group, I'll get an error message each and every > > time telling me that; "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have > > stopped responding." To proceed, I have the option of hitting either the > > "Stop Script" button or the "Continue" buttom to complete/enable the new > > page to come up -- or, I can just hit the "X" in the upper left to get rid > > of it (which I do most of the time), which tells you that there is really > > nothing wrong with the page's Script to begin with. > > > > On top of that though, with each change of a page I need to do, such as > > opening "Messages" on the Group, etc., or any other chore, the next page > > that comes up may be completely white (blank) except for the toolbar across > > the top. So then, I need to hit "Back" and go back to the previous page I > > just came from and try to do that same chore all over again -- like, > > hitting "Reply" again to be able to write a post to your message. I may > > need to do this up to about ten times before being able to actually bring > > up the Group page that now allows me to write a post to your message. As > > you can see, it can be a real bear to even make one post, and is surely no > > fun. It's very discouraging to try to do much posting. I'll be here for > > anyone needing further advice on anything, so just know I'll be around, > > depending on my future health. I hope to be upgrading to a better 'puter > > soon, too. Many thanks again for your concerns. > > > > Best, > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53555	From: john Lewis	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hello:    It's good to know you're out there again Ray.    Have a Great Day!!!    Spawn ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:51 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ray still here?   Hi John, Good to be back. Yeah, the 'puter I'm using is really problematic. Thanks for the advice on upgrading to a newer version of my server, although it's easy for you to say since you had no problem doing it < g >. My relic refuses to accept a download of a newer version though, so I'm out of luck with that idea. When I tell it to download a newer version of what I'm using, it tells me to upgrade my operating system. Then, since this relic is too old, it refuses to upgrade my OS. I'll get straightened out with better equipment soon, but in the meantime I'll just have to plug along. Thanks very much for the suggestion though. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Good to hear from you, I'm sorry your computer is giving you grief-I run > Firefox & had a similar problem some time ago when I was using an outdated > version, the current version 12.0-here is a link to down load & install it: > http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ > I hope you can get it sorted soon. > > John. > > On 14 May 2012 11:54, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > Yes, I'm still here, and I thank you very much both for your concern and > > for Joe T's concern when he asked about me two weeks ago. Good to know that > > I'm missed by at least a few of you. Have had bronchial pneumonia for about > > 3 1/2 weeks, which I'm over now -- although some occasional residual > > congestion problems seem to linger almost every morning. I'll be getting > > that checked out when I go back to my doctor this coming Wednesday, to have > > a more concerning issue of a heart problem symptom looked into. So, my > > illness is the main reason why I haven't been up to participating on the > > Group, although I've been continually monitoring and acting on the various > > messages that need approving (or rejecting, etc.) where I could. I've seen > > that Amber has taken on a greater workload with this, as well as I presume, > > both Harry and Mike; thanks all. > > > > The other major problem preventing me from doing much responding on the > > Group is that my regular computer crapped out and I'm now temporarily > > relegated to my old (read; ancient) computer with which I have numerous > > problems in trying to just navigate with it. It no longer allows me to just > > answer from my emails, nor can I reply directly by going to the Group site, > > as my Windows Server just doesn't permit it. Instead, I need to use one of > > the other servers such as Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird and Safari, etc., > > which lately has been giving me all sorts of problems. With each change of > > a page, even when hitting "Reply" to just be able to open as page to > > respond to a message on the Group, I'll get an error message each and every > > time telling me that; "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have > > stopped responding." To proceed, I have the option of hitting either the > > "Stop Script" button or the "Continue" buttom to complete/enable the new > > page to come up -- or, I can just hit the "X" in the upper left to get rid > > of it (which I do most of the time), which tells you that there is really > > nothing wrong with the page's Script to begin with. > > > > On top of that though, with each change of a page I need to do, such as > > opening "Messages" on the Group, etc., or any other chore, the next page > > that comes up may be completely white (blank) except for the toolbar across > > the top. So then, I need to hit "Back" and go back to the previous page I > > just came from and try to do that same chore all over again -- like, > > hitting "Reply" again to be able to write a post to your message. I may > > need to do this up to about ten times before being able to actually bring > > up the Group page that now allows me to write a post to your message. As > > you can see, it can be a real bear to even make one post, and is surely no > > fun. It's very discouraging to try to do much posting. I'll be here for > > anyone needing further advice on anything, so just know I'll be around, > > depending on my future health. I hope to be upgrading to a better 'puter > > soon, too. Many thanks again for your concerns. > > > > Best, > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53556	From: Noura T.	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Yellow Labs

Dear Ray, THANK YOU for the detailed reply. Yes I mentioned on the first post that the 3" Lab killed one of the new ones the next morning I introduced them. I examined him today by "venting" and it looks like he's a male. Today I noticed that one of the new 3 Labs, which are temporarily occupying half of the 20G tank, is dominating the other 2 fish. They're all the same size, but the dominating one has the darkest fins. I believe this problem will not sustain when I remove the tank divider after taking the BIG Lab out. As for the caves. What I have handmade before is what you're describing, I made it in "y" shape, It was fun! I can do it again in the "Pyramid shape" that you're suggesting. Here's what my cave looks like : <http://aquarium.shuru.com/printerfriendly.htm> http://aquarium.shuru.com/printerfriendly.htm I just made an additional "window" in the cave's body and the fish usually peak through it when they're inside the cave to see what's going on around. I tend to put PVC and clay caves rather than rocks "Dangerous, doesn't provide suitable caving, obstacles when you try to net a fish, breaking risk.. etc.." Best regards, Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53550;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNnBrbn AzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNT UwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzMzcwODQxMDQ-> Re: Yellow Labs Posted by: "Ray" sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Yellow%20Labs> sevenspringss <http://profiles.yahoo.com/sevenspringss> Mon May 14, 2012 12:15 pm (PDT) Hello Noura, Glad to see your 20 G tank is a long one. These fish much prefer having adequate area rather than water column height. As for your artificial cave (able to house two 4" Cichlids); note that it's preferable for each mouthbrooder to have a cave to itself. Preferably, an African Mouthbrooder set up should ideally have at least one additional cave than there are fish, and two additional caves would not be excessive. This is for more aggressive species, but may be kept in mind even for less aggressive species like these Labs when confining them to smaller than ideal tanks (if you had a 29 Gallon tank, you could include a total of 6 fish, which would help in distributing the aggression). You should not depend on any fish having to hide behind the filter. I wouldn't count the volcano as a hiding place either, especially as the fish grow larger. When I mentioned having more rockwork, I just assumed that even in Syria, that your local fish store would have an assortment of aquarium-safe rocks to sell for fish tanks. Here in the States, there's generally a variety of different kinds of rocks to buy. Many years ago, I bought two 50 pound (23 Kilo's) bushels of red shale just for this purpose, but as it's a local rock gathered in the neighboring State (Pennsylvania), it may not necessarily be available near you. For light, handmade caves that will fit in, I also use clay flowerpots, but with the bottom knocked out so that no fish being chased can get cornered in it. I also use 2" and 3" diameter PVC (hard plastic) pipe -- depending upon the size of the fish -- cut to lengths suitable to the size of the fish and the size of the tank. This may be what you have, which you covered with fine gravel. While you can add several more individual pipe caves over the tank's bottom, it's helpful too, to glue three of them together and then glue With silicone cement) two more pipes on top of these for fish being chased to swim into a pipe-cave that's more in line with the fish's swimming height off the bottom. Chased fish don't always think to dive to the bottom to gain access to a cave. You can also suspend a cave-pipe from the tank side or end so that it is just submersed beneath the surface, to give chased fish a place to retreat to when near the surface (many fish will often prefer to hide in an upper corner of the tank where they're vulnerable to attack). This gives them cover. BTW, while actual rocks may be heavy, keep in mind they are displacing their volume in water which, while not as heavy as solid rock, still weighs 8 1/3 pounds (3.76 Kilo's) per gallon; there's little danger of breaking the tank bottom when using rock as there isn't very much additional weigh (as compared to water), when using rocks. Wasn't aware you lost one of the four small Labs, but I may have read it and forgot about it. Yes, two more 1" Labs would be best. Try not to buy the very largest ones as they're more apt to be males (you want more males than females). It would be best if you could end up with two males and three females, but I know you can't tell them apart at this size. Best wishes with them, and don't be concerned that the 3" male will wind up as fish food for some larger fish or reptile. These fish are just too valuable for the shop owner to use this fish this way; he'd make much more money selling it as it's not a cheap fish. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53557	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/15/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi Ray, From what you say it does sound like your system is past it's sell by date. Unfortunately computer technology is evolving at light speed so it's hard to keep up & even when you do buy the state of the art device [which I did a couple of years ago] it becomes outdated almost as son as you get it home! John*<o)))< * On 15 May 2012 20:51, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Good to be back. Yeah, the 'puter I'm using is really problematic. Thanks > for the advice on upgrading to a newer version of my server, although it's > easy for you to say since you had no problem doing it < g >. My relic > refuses to accept a download of a newer version though, so I'm out of luck > with that idea. When I tell it to download a newer version of what I'm > using, it tells me to upgrade my operating system. Then, since this relic > is too old, it refuses to upgrade my OS. I'll get straightened out with > better equipment soon, but in the meantime I'll just have to plug along. > Thanks very much for the suggestion though. > > Ray > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53558	From: John	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Finding Frogs in Greenville, SC

Hello everyone. I am from greenville, SC and am interesting in finding some frogs but do not know where to look. Does anyone know of any hotspots for frogs? Thanks..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53559	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ray still here?

Hi Ray, thanks for your messages! We are all glad you are back and better! I hope your health continues to improve and your heart is not giving you any concern....! Computer problems can be so annoying. Thanks for putting so much effort in it and still being present with all those complications. Hopefully it will be easier soon! All the best, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Yes, I'm still here, and I thank you very much both for your concern and for Joe T's concern when he asked about me two weeks ago. Good to know that I'm missed by at least a few of you. Have had bronchial pneumonia for about 3 1/2 weeks, which I'm over now -- although some occasional residual congestion problems seem to linger almost every morning. I'll be getting that checked out when I go back to my doctor this coming Wednesday, to have a more concerning issue of a heart problem symptom looked into. So, my illness is the main reason why I haven't been up to participating on the Group, although I've been continually monitoring and acting on the various messages that need approving (or rejecting, etc.) where I could. I've seen that Amber has taken on a greater workload with this, as well as I presume, both Harry and Mike; thanks all. > > The other major problem preventing me from doing much responding on the Group is that my regular computer crapped out and I'm now temporarily relegated to my old (read; ancient) computer with which I have numerous problems in trying to just navigate with it. It no longer allows me to just answer from my emails, nor can I reply directly by going to the Group site, as my Windows Server just doesn't permit it. Instead, I need to use one of the other servers such as Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird and Safari, etc., which lately has been giving me all sorts of problems. With each change of a page, even when hitting "Reply" to just be able to open as page to respond to a message on the Group, I'll get an error message each and every time telling me that; "A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding." To proceed, I have the option of hitting either the "Stop Script" button or the "Continue" buttom to complete/enable the new page to come up -- or, I can just hit the "X" in the upper left to get rid of it (which I do most of the time), which tells you that there is really nothing wrong with the page's Script to begin with. > > On top of that though, with each change of a page I need to do, such as opening "Messages" on the Group, etc., or any other chore, the next page that comes up may be completely white (blank) except for the toolbar across the top. So then, I need to hit "Back" and go back to the previous page I just came from and try to do that same chore all over again -- like, hitting "Reply" again to be able to write a post to your message. I may need to do this up to about ten times before being able to actually bring up the Group page that now allows me to write a post to your message. As you can see, it can be a real bear to even make one post, and is surely no fun. It's very discouraging to try to do much posting. I'll be here for anyone needing further advice on anything, so just know I'll be around, depending on my future health. I hope to be upgrading to a better 'puter soon, too. Many thanks again for your concerns. > > Best, > > Ray > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > recently somebody asked about Ray and I never saw an answer....? I wonder too that there were no more messages? I always valued his knowledge and helpful/friendly responses. Does anyone know what happened? > > > > I hope everything is all right!? > > > > Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53560	From: D and g	Date: 5/17/2012
Subject: hi all help having some trobel

hi my name is don i need some help salving a problem i am having with one of my tanks i just lost the oscers that i got for my wife for mothers day the water tested good dont know what to do

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53561	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel

Hi Don, I think for us to give you any useful advice we need ot know several things: What size tank is it? What are you water readings? How many fish did you have? Did you set it up recently or has it been established a long time? Was it cycled? Were there any other fish in there? What filtration do you have? What gravel, decor & lighting do you have? John On 17 May 2012 22:37, D and g <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > ** > > > hi my name is don i need some help salving a problem i am having with one > of my tanks i just lost the oscers that i got for my wife for mothers day > the water tested good dont know what to do > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53562	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel

They didn't live very long at all, which leads me to believe you put "them" (how many)? in a too small tank without cycling or water changes, and overfed them. How large is your tank? I think most people only keep one oscar at a time because of all the space they need. What water tests did you do and what were the exact readings? "fine" doesn't tell enough. Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53563	From: Kristy Ratliff	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"

Question...  When you say "cycling" the water, what does that intell, and what benefits does that provide??  I'm only asking because we just moved our fish from a 55 to a 75 new set up, and I'm wondering if this is something we should be doing...   Thank you,   Kristy   --- On Fri, 5/18/12, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> wrote: From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all help having some trobel To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, May 18, 2012, 7:05 AM   They didn't live very long at all, which leads me to believe you put "them" (how many)? in a too small tank without cycling or water changes, and overfed them. How large is your tank? I think most people only keep one oscar at a time because of all the space they need. What water tests did you do and what were the exact readings? "fine" doesn't tell enough. Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53564	From: D and g F	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel

thay where two baby oscers like one in the tests the peaple at the pet store sead that the water tested fine that is all thay sead and thay where in a 20 gal tank with a placo that was 1 1/2 inand it stade on the botem of the water filter ________________________________ From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:05 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all help having some trobel   They didn't live very long at all, which leads me to believe you put "them" (how many)? in a too small tank without cycling or water changes, and overfed them. How large is your tank? I think most people only keep one oscar at a time because of all the space they need. What water tests did you do and what were the exact readings? "fine" doesn't tell enough. Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53565	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"

Hi Kristy, The chances are that your tank is already cycled, basically a cycled tank is one where the mini eco system is perfectly in balance-animals, plants & decor. A cycled tank typically will have zero nitrite & ammonia, a stable pH & nitrate at or below 40. The process is started by bacteria braking down the toxic ammonia in fish waste into nitrite. This nitrite is also deadly but it is then further broken down by more bacteria to nitrate which is far less dangerous in lower concentrations. This process can take anything from a couple of weeks to a few months. Unfortunately there is not a third biological process which eliminates the nitrate so that is where our water changes & filtration come in to dilute the nitrate to safe levels. This maintenance regime is easily worked out by using test kits before & after water changes-then altering your amount of new water accordingly. An established, cycled tank is a very delicate balancing act & overfeeding, adding more fish, not cleaning the filters or doing enough water changes [or any combination of these things] all can contribute to a bio meltdown. There is a good web page about cycling here: http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm It is from a Cichlid site but the basics are identical for almost all fish keeping. Specifically-unless you are adding more animals when you upgrade then your fish will benefit from the move from a 55 to a 75 gallon because you will have the same number of fish making the same amount of waste but in a larger area so it will take longer to pollute & consequently be healthier. I would always recommend, even to newcomers, to start out with the most massive tank you can reasonably fit/afford because more water=more stability & is less maintenance. John*<o)))< * On 18 May 2012 16:06, Kristy Ratliff <kristylp@...> wrote: > ** > > > Question...� When you say "cycling" the water, what does that intell, and > what benefits does that provide??� I'm only asking because we just moved > our fish from a 55 to a 75 new set up, and I'm wondering if this is > something we should be doing... > � > Thank you, > � > Kristy > � > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53566	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Is this a good liner??

Saw this awesome sale and wanted to take advantage of it for my upcoming koi pond! Just wanted to know if this was the right kind of liner to buy! The right thickness, etc. Thanks!!! http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9213 I have so many questions but I'll ask later! Time is short right now. Thank you! Desire' in Louisiana for the spoiled kois- Elle, Ginger and Spooks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53567	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Pond liner size

Sorry for the second email...I was wondering the SIZE liner I would need. My pond will be 5 feet wide by 10 feet long and 4 feet deep, and will most likely have a small waterfall. Ray, I think, had mentioned in a previous email a few months back that a 20' x 20' liner would be the size I needed. I added another feet to the length (was 9 feet, now 10 feet) so I wondered if I would need a bigger liner or if the 20' x 20' would work? Thanks! Desire' in LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53568	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??

Hi Desire', Yes, this is exactly the right kind of liner to buy. There are other more expensive liners, such Xavan Liners, but you really don't need to go that far. Xavan does have a guarantee of 25 years vs 20 years for EPDM, but then it costs about $20 per foot for 19.5' wide material (price based on how long you need this material from a 19.5' wide roll), and $15 for 14.7' wide material. Most water gardeners use EPDM however. Yes, the 45 Mil, as advertised by Drs Foster & Smith is the right (STANDARD) thickness for EPDM. The extra foot you added to the length of this pond (from 9', now to 10') will not necessitate anything larger than the 20' I first recommended. This will give you 1' overlap onto the ground (at the top), as I first mentioned. I can't confirm 20' as being needed for the width, as you're now giving the pond width as only 5', and I believe you stated you were planning on having an additional shallow area on the side -- which would need to include more material than just having a 5' width. The 20' I mentioned for the width would have included this shallow area, but I don't see you mention that idea any longer here. Without that additional shallow area, you're 5' width would need just 15' of material -- which would also give you exactly 1' overlap at the top. If however, you're still planning on the shallow area, you would need the extra 5' of width (for 20' wide). By DrsFosterSmith's ad, it appears they cut to custom made ponds. By this, I'm taking it that they are willing to custom cut to any size you're making your pond, but if so, this would only pertain to the pond length if it didn't work out to come to a 5' increment. The EPDM liners come as standard widths of 5.5'. 10', 15', 20', 25', 30', 35', 40' and 50'. You would automatically get a 20' width if you wanted the shallow area even though you would only need 18' -- and would have to pay for 20' as the width comes on a roll 20' wide and wouldn't be custom cut. If it was, you'd still need to pay for 20' wide, as you'd need to pay for the 2' cut-off waste. As you're planning a waterfall though, provided this waterfall isn't very wide, you could use this off-cut for that application. It would be much better than using plastic sheeting for a waterfall. You would join the waterfall liner to the pond liner with double-sided (3" wide) EPDM tape, and would have an absolutely waterproof joint. You should (although not essential) get a quart of "Quick Prime Plus" to apply to the joint before putting the tape on to doubly ensure the best adhesion of the tape. This is especially important in cool weather. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > Saw this awesome sale and wanted to take advantage of it for my upcoming koi pond! Just wanted to know if this was the right kind of liner to buy! The right thickness, etc. Thanks!!! > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9213 > > > I have so many questions but I'll ask later! Time is short right now. Thank you! > > > > Desire' in Louisiana > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Ginger and Spooks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53569	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel

Don, There is very little information here to go on. I realize that you may not know what info we may need, but then at least give us as much info as you can. Even things like ornaments you may have added, which may not necessarily be fish-safe. You stated yesterday, that your two small Oscar you got for Mother's day "just died" but you don't even say when you "just bought them" (how long you've had them). Did you get them the day before on May 17th or did you get them last week? I guess I can presume you used a water conditioner, since the Pleco is still alive -- is that right? The 20 gallon tank is definitely large enough, so that's not the problem. Next time you have your water tested in the event you have another problem, you need to ask for all the numbers of the water test results. This is the only way we have of knowing your exact water parameters. A result of "fine" just isn't much help, as for one thing, "fine" may be borderline by a tester if he feels the water is not dangerously toxic enough to kill the fish. We would need the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate to be completely useful to us in determining whether your water is "fine." Still, it would be extremely useful if we (and you) also knew the pH of the fish shop's water of the tank that these fish came out of when you bought them. As it's very easy -- and quite useful for you to know -- I would recommend getting your own master water test kit containing test for those parameters I just mentioned. Most dedicated hobbyist find that these kits are indispensable when having problems they can't otherwise understand. If for no other reason, you should ask the shop at the time of purchase, what pH their particular tank water is of the tank you just purchased fish from -- and then test your tank water at home for the same quality (the pH), to know if there's much shock-inducing difference between the shop's water pH and your water pH. For now, and assuming that your water is perfectly "fine" in all respects, I'm suggesting that your fish problem may have stemmed from improper acclimate of the fish when you brought them home. Can you tell us what procedures you used in acclimating these Oscars to your tank water? I'm hoping you just didn't dump them in. Proper acclimation of fish includes (but not limits) your floating the bag of fish in your tank for about 15 minutes to equalize the temperature. Then, you need to open the bag an roll the bag sides down to create air pockets within the folds, allowing the bag to float. You should then check the pH of the bag's water if you haven't gotten this info from the store, and then check the pH of your tank water. If there's very little difference, the fish can then be added to your tank; the bag's water and fish can be dumped into a net, the fish added to your tank, and the water discarded (never add bag water to your tank). But, if there's any considerable difference, you need to slowly mix in some of your tank water into the bag, while discarding some bag water, in efforts to slowly bring the bag water's pH as near to that of your tank's water as possible. Depending on how great this pH difference may be, this may take up to another hour to adjust the bag water's pH to your tank's pH, if this difference is great. Minor, but yet still substantial pH differences may take 20 to 30 minutes to adjust to your tank's pH. Not ensuring this pH adjustment where needed can and will cause stress and shock to your new fish -- sometimes being lethal if this difference is considerable. BTW, I'd hope you're aware that Oscars easily grow to over 12" and often up to 16" or 18". As they grow, you'd need to be prepared to upgrade the size of your aquarium. Two full grown Oscars would require at least a 125 gallon tank, or better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, D and g F <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > thay where two baby oscers like one in the tests the peaple at the pet store sead that the water tested fine that is all thay sead and thay where in a 20 gal tank with a placo that was 1 1/2 inand it stade on the botem of the water filter > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:05 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all help having some trobel > > > > Â > > They didn't live very long at all, which leads me to believe you put "them" (how many)? in a too small tank without cycling or water changes, and overfed them. How large is your tank? I think most people only keep one oscar at a time because of all the space they need. What water tests did you do and what were the exact readings? "fine" doesn't tell enough. Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53570	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"

I'd just like to make one correction to the information John has provided about the nitrogen cycle. There IS a natural process that breaks down nitrate (denitrification), it just isn't as commonly used in freshwater as it is in marine tanks. The use of a refugium is the most popular method of denitrification, and yes, this CAN be set up and used for a freshwater tank if one so desires, and it is very effective if done correctly. I won't get into a deep explanation of such a thing unless someone is in true need of the information at this time, as my time is limited right now and it would require a bit of depth to explain fully. This is also something that can vary in it's set up methods depending on what is in the main tank, where & how it is set up, etc. I just wanted to make sure that everyone reading this thread is aware that there is such a thing and that it can be done. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Kristy, > > The chances are that your tank is already cycled, basically a cycled tank > is one where the mini eco system is perfectly in balance-animals, plants & > decor. A cycled tank typically will have zero nitrite & ammonia, a stable > pH & nitrate at or below 40. > > The process is started by bacteria braking down the toxic ammonia in fish > waste into nitrite. This nitrite is also deadly but it is then further > broken down by more bacteria to nitrate which is far less dangerous in > lower concentrations. This process can take anything from a couple of weeks > to a few months. Unfortunately there is not a third biological process > which eliminates the nitrate so that is where our water changes & > filtration come in to dilute the nitrate to safe levels. This maintenance > regime is easily worked out by using test kits before & after water > changes-then altering your amount of new water accordingly. > > An established, cycled tank is a very delicate balancing act & overfeeding, > adding more fish, not cleaning the filters or doing enough water changes > [or any combination of these things] all can contribute to a bio meltdown. > There is a good web page about cycling here: > http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm > It is from a Cichlid site but the basics are identical for almost all fish > keeping. > > Specifically-unless you are adding more animals when you upgrade then your > fish will benefit from the move from a 55 to a 75 gallon because you will > have the same number of fish making the same amount of waste but in a > larger area so it will take longer to pollute & consequently be healthier. > I would always recommend, even to newcomers, to start out with the most > massive tank you can reasonably fit/afford because more water=more > stability & is less maintenance. > > John*<o)))< > > * > > On 18 May 2012 16:06, Kristy Ratliff <kristylp@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Question... When you say "cycling" the water, what does that intell, and > > what benefits does that provide?? I'm only asking because we just moved > > our fish from a 55 to a 75 new set up, and I'm wondering if this is > > something we should be doing... > >  > > Thank you, > >  > > Kristy > >  > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53571	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??

Thanks for responding so timely!! I wanted to make sure before I ordered so I can get in on this great price!! Considering they have free shipping, I am saving $70.00- which is how much more I would have had to pay at another place I found same size liner (the shipping was high). Yes, I did plan to put waterfall. Not sure how wide and long I can make it with the leftover liner? I had planned to do a shallow area and still plan to do so - sorry if I forgot to mention it. So with the shallow area (a feeding/plant shelf) AND a waterfall, would the 20' still work for the width? Or would I need to go to the 25'? I don't mind having some leftover. I just don't want to not have enough! How deep would you recommend the shallow/feeding shelf be? Would it be okay to put plants on there as well? I have heard that koi are destructible with plants and like to eat them so I've stayed away from pond plants in the past because of it. Also- how big should the shelf be? Should it just be on one side, correct? As not to eat up more space in the pond itself and diminish it in gallons. I was looking at the Oase filters that someone previously recommended (you or John?) and I have not been able to find them anywhere. Their website says that they are no longer made?? Since I about have the liner situation under control, I am wondering about a water pump/fountain and the biological filter. I actually asked Drs. FosterSmith 's Customer service and I was just confused about the info they gave me. Could someone please explain this to me in layman's terms? (Please excuse- I am VERY new to this pond building stuff and want to learn!) What do they mean about the head height as they say? This pump will be in 4 feet of water. I am assuming that I will need to set it up on something inside the pond since it will be pretty deep? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. I just want to make sure I get these things right so I'm not shaking my head later, having been too embarassed to ask questions to begin with! Thanks! Desire' ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:44 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Is this a good liner?? Hi Desire', Yes, this is exactly the right kind of liner to buy. There are other more expensive liners, such Xavan Liners, but you really don't need to go that far. Xavan does have a guarantee of 25 years vs 20 years for EPDM, but then it costs about $20 per foot for 19.5' wide material (price based on how long you need this material from a 19.5' wide roll), and $15 for 14.7' wide material. Most water gardeners use EPDM however. Yes, the 45 Mil, as advertised by Drs Foster & Smith is the right (STANDARD) thickness for EPDM. The extra foot you added to the length of this pond (from 9', now to 10') will not necessitate anything larger than the 20' I first recommended. This will give you 1' overlap onto the ground (at the top), as I first mentioned. I can't confirm 20' as being needed for the width, as you're now giving the pond width as only 5', and I believe you stated you were planning on having an additional shallow area on the side -- which would need to include more material than just having a 5' width. The 20' I mentioned for the width would have included this shallow area, but I don't see you mention that idea any longer here. Without that additional shallow area, you're 5' width would need just 15' of material -- which would also give you exactly 1' overlap at the top. If however, you're still planning on the shallow area, you would need the extra 5' of width (for 20' wide). By DrsFosterSmith's ad, it appears they cut to custom made ponds. By this, I'm taking it that they are willing to custom cut to any size you're making your pond, but if so, this would only pertain to the pond length if it didn't work out to come to a 5' increment. The EPDM liners come as standard widths of 5.5'. 10', 15', 20', 25', 30', 35', 40' and 50'. You would automatically get a 20' width if you wanted the shallow area even though you would only need 18' -- and would have to pay for 20' as the width comes on a roll 20' wide and wouldn't be custom cut. If it was, you'd still need to pay for 20' wide, as you'd need to pay for the 2' cut-off waste. As you're planning a waterfall though, provided this waterfall isn't very wide, you could use this off-cut for that application. It would be much better than using plastic sheeting for a waterfall. You would join the waterfall liner to the pond liner with double-sided (3" wide) EPDM tape, and would have an absolutely waterproof joint. You should (although not essential) get a quart of "Quick Prime Plus" to apply to the joint before putting the tape on to doubly ensure the best adhesion of the tape. This is especially important in cool weather. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > Saw this awesome sale and wanted to take advantage of it for my upcoming koi pond! Just wanted to know if this was the right kind of liner to buy! The right thickness, etc. Thanks!!! > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9213 > > > I have so many questions but I'll ask later! Time is short right now. Thank you! > > > > Desire' in Louisiana > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Ginger and Spooks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53572	From: kbgwp	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"

Thanks Dawn, I wanted to mention that but I don't really know enough to explain it. I do remember when I had a salt water tank (10 gallon...no fish) I was surprised to see all the test numbers including Nitrate drop to zero. Since my gravel bed was only an inch or so deep, I suspect it was the large amount of live rock that removed the nitrate. I remember hearing a PETFISHTALK podcast about a denitrification trick that used lava rock to remove the nitrate. I think it was anaerobic (without oxygen) bacteria that did it. I also remember them saying that you should NOT have zero nitrate. I don't know why that would be a problem but, unless I'm remembering wrong, they said not to let it drop below -now I'm really guessing- 40 ppm. Correct me if I got that wrong but they were talking freshwater. I'm pretty sure saltwater should be all zeros - again I could be wrong. ...Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I'd just like to make one correction to the information John has provided about the nitrogen cycle. There IS a natural process that breaks down nitrate (denitrification), it just isn't as commonly used in freshwater as it is in marine tanks. The use of a refugium is the most popular method of denitrification, and yes, this CAN be set up and used for a freshwater tank if one so desires, and it is very effective if done correctly. > > I won't get into a deep explanation of such a thing unless someone is in true need of the information at this time, as my time is limited right now and it would require a bit of depth to explain fully. This is also something that can vary in it's set up methods depending on what is in the main tank, where & how it is set up, etc. I just wanted to make sure that everyone reading this thread is aware that there is such a thing and that it can be done. > > Dawn

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53573	From: kbgwp	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Denitrification Podcast

I just wanted to post the link to the PETFISHTALK podcast <http://www.petfishtalk.com/shows_special/denitrification/denitrificatio\ n.htm> I mentioned in my last post. They seem to have a lot of commercials but the information is good and entertaining. ...Brian in PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53574	From: D and g F	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: hi all help having some trobel

i hade the oscers for a week and i got my own tester it is a pool tester but i tested the water it was cl/br <1/2>    ph 7.5 that was from the tank ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all help having some trobel   Don, There is very little information here to go on. I realize that you may not know what info we may need, but then at least give us as much info as you can. Even things like ornaments you may have added, which may not necessarily be fish-safe. You stated yesterday, that your two small Oscar you got for Mother's day "just died" but you don't even say when you "just bought them" (how long you've had them). Did you get them the day before on May 17th or did you get them last week? I guess I can presume you used a water conditioner, since the Pleco is still alive -- is that right? The 20 gallon tank is definitely large enough, so that's not the problem. Next time you have your water tested in the event you have another problem, you need to ask for all the numbers of the water test results. This is the only way we have of knowing your exact water parameters. A result of "fine" just isn't much help, as for one thing, "fine" may be borderline by a tester if he feels the water is not dangerously toxic enough to kill the fish. We would need the test results for pH, ammonia, nitrite and even nitrate to be completely useful to us in determining whether your water is "fine." Still, it would be extremely useful if we (and you) also knew the pH of the fish shop's water of the tank that these fish came out of when you bought them. As it's very easy -- and quite useful for you to know -- I would recommend getting your own master water test kit containing test for those parameters I just mentioned. Most dedicated hobbyist find that these kits are indispensable when having problems they can't otherwise understand. If for no other reason, you should ask the shop at the time of purchase, what pH their particular tank water is of the tank you just purchased fish from -- and then test your tank water at home for the same quality (the pH), to know if there's much shock-inducing difference between the shop's water pH and your water pH. For now, and assuming that your water is perfectly "fine" in all respects, I'm suggesting that your fish problem may have stemmed from improper acclimate of the fish when you brought them home. Can you tell us what procedures you used in acclimating these Oscars to your tank water? I'm hoping you just didn't dump them in. Proper acclimation of fish includes (but not limits) your floating the bag of fish in your tank for about 15 minutes to equalize the temperature. Then, you need to open the bag an roll the bag sides down to create air pockets within the folds, allowing the bag to float. You should then check the pH of the bag's water if you haven't gotten this info from the store, and then check the pH of your tank water. If there's very little difference, the fish can then be added to your tank; the bag's water and fish can be dumped into a net, the fish added to your tank, and the water discarded (never add bag water to your tank). But, if there's any considerable difference, you need to slowly mix in some of your tank water into the bag, while discarding some bag water, in efforts to slowly bring the bag water's pH as near to that of your tank's water as possible. Depending on how great this pH difference may be, this may take up to another hour to adjust the bag water's pH to your tank's pH, if this difference is great. Minor, but yet still substantial pH differences may take 20 to 30 minutes to adjust to your tank's pH. Not ensuring this pH adjustment where needed can and will cause stress and shock to your new fish -- sometimes being lethal if this difference is considerable. BTW, I'd hope you're aware that Oscars easily grow to over 12" and often up to 16" or 18". As they grow, you'd need to be prepared to upgrade the size of your aquarium. Two full grown Oscars would require at least a 125 gallon tank, or better. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, D and g F <ford_rocks@...> wrote: > > thay where two baby oscers like one in the tests the peaple at the pet store sead that the water tested fine that is all thay sead and thay where in a 20 gal tank with a placo that was 1 1/2 inand it stade on the botem of the water filter > > > > ________________________________ > From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 7:05 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: hi all help having some trobel > > > > Â > > They didn't live very long at all, which leads me to believe you put "them" (how many)? in a too small tank without cycling or water changes, and overfed them. How large is your tank? I think most people only keep one oscar at a time because of all the space they need. What water tests did you do and what were the exact readings? "fine" doesn't tell enough. Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??

Hi Desire', I think if you put any planters-particularly anything tall on the shallow area then the fish will eventually knock them off & that could cause all manner of potential problems-broken planters injuring fish, damaging the liner or hoses etc. With regard to feeding you don't specifically need a shallow area/shelf because once they get to take food from your hand then the depth of water is irrelevant. Water lilies would be ok in the deeper part of your pond as long as they are in plastic planters & the surface of the soil is covered in large pebbles sot he fish cannot go digging them up. I think you can find Oase filters in the US, they certainly have a trading address there, if you click 'Find Dealer' at the top of this link & fill in your location details you should find something: http://www.oase-livingwater.com/en_EN/water-garden/start.html I had a quick look on eBay US & found several Aquamax pumps too. There are plenty of other good makes around if you still have difficulty in finding these but as I am not in the US you are probably better to get recommendations from some of the US ponders on this forum. What are the approximate dimensions of your pond again please? Head height-not a dumb question at all-this is exactly what this forum is for! The head height just means the distance the water has to rise from the pond to the filter so, for example if you had your filter 10 feet above the water then you would need a much more powerful pump to raise the water to it but if it was situated only 3 feet above the water the a less powerful pump would do the same job because of the smaller amount of dead-weight water the pump has to push uphill to the filter. You are right about needing to set the pump up on something to raise it above the bottom of the pond. When I am setting them up I usually set the pump on a couple of house bricks side by side or a breeze block & as an additional safety measure you might want to secure it to these blocks with several cable ties so that the fish cannot knock it off. The reason for it being raised up is a safety measure. If there is a break or blockage anywhere in the plumbing between pump & filter [the drive train] or the filter gets holed or even the waterfall gets breached then it is possible that the pond could be emptied because the pump will continue to pump water out but by having the pump set above the base of the pond that will give your fish those life-saving few inches of water until they are found, once the water level goes below the pump it cannot empty any more out. Having the pump set directly on the bottom could be disastrous. John*<o)))< * On 19 May 2012 21:23, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > Thanks for responding so timely!! I wanted to make sure before I ordered > so I can get in on this great price!! Considering they have free shipping, > I am saving $70.00- which is how much more I would have had to pay at > another place I found same size liner (the shipping was high). > > Yes, I did plan to put waterfall. Not sure how wide and long I can make it > with the leftover liner? I had planned to do a shallow area and still plan > to do so - sorry if I forgot to mention it. So with the shallow area (a > feeding/plant shelf) AND a waterfall, would the 20' still work for the > width? Or would I need to go to the 25'? I don't mind having some leftover. > I just don't want to not have enough! How deep would you recommend the > shallow/feeding shelf be? Would it be okay to put plants on there as well? > I have heard that koi are destructible with plants and like to eat them so > I've stayed away from pond plants in the past because of it. Also- how big > should the shelf be? Should it just be on one side, correct? As not to eat > up more space in the pond itself and diminish it in gallons. > > I was looking at the Oase filters that someone previously recommended (you > or John?) and I have not been able to find them anywhere. Their website > says that they are no longer made?? Since I about have the liner situation > under control, I am wondering about a water pump/fountain and the > biological filter. I actually asked Drs. FosterSmith 's Customer service > and I was just confused about the info they gave me. Could someone please > explain this to me in layman's terms? (Please excuse- I am VERY new to this > pond building stuff and want to learn!) What do they mean about the head > height as they say? This pump will be in 4 feet of water. I am assuming > that I will need to set it up on something inside the pond since it will be > pretty deep? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. I just want to make > sure I get these things right so I'm not shaking my head later, having been > too embarassed to ask questions to begin with! > > Thanks! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53576	From: Weims and Labs	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner

Hi, I am new to aquatic life.  What a wealth of pond and aquarium information you all have to offer.  I'm from PA.  I have 2- 30 gal tanks.  We put a heater with a thermostat in our pond for the winter.  You just need a hole in the ice for the CO2 to escape.  We do not feed the fish all winter, we also cut back on their slow metabolic food by late fall.  We have a koi about a foot long that we've had 5+years.  We did have 2 koi but one was picked up by a blue heron. Sadly he dropped it in the grass on a 90 degree day.  We now keep a heron watch. Georgene, Hunter, Harley, and Rocky                   “It took awhile, but when their number dwindled from 50 to eight, the other dwarfs began to suspect Hungry.” ~Anon. >________________________________ > From: bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:15 AM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: plastic water fall liner > > >  > > >Hi Rose, > >It sounds like you really have a plan there! On the fish themselves, >I’m stumped, but if it were I, I would double check with the store >you want to buy them from. If they have any brains at all, they are not >going to give you bad advise or they just may never see you again. > >For the fish themselves, I have a family down the road a few miles from here and >they have had their Koi in their front yard pond well over the 30-years that we have been living out here and those fish are huge, well into the 8 to 10 pound class easily. They do not take the fish in for the winter months and the pond itself is fed with a natural very cold-water under-ground spring, to the tune of about 56 degrees constant, winter and summer. > >About your pond construction Rose, I am afraid I can not help at all but there are some on this group that can, if they want to jump in here. Also, I would check very carefully both with friends and around the neighborhood. I am getting, that this is a first attempt on your part with this pond and we want you to be successful with it. To that end, find out what others are doing. You know, the where, when and how they are doing different things that you are suggesting. Surely you cannot be the only one in Wisconsin that wants or has a pond! <g> > >Please keep us posted and a few pictures if you can spare the time for them. Good luck! > >bill in pa > >--- On Wed, 4/18/12, Red Barn Farm <redbarnfarm@...> wrote: > >> From: Red Barn Farm <redbarnfarm@...> >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: plastic water fall liner >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 8:41 AM >> HI Bill, I live in Northern WI and am >> well aware >> how frost moves things around. What I have in >> mind is a large center point rock that I would >> then line along the sides with smaller flatter >> rocks. I would put the plastic on top of the >> smaller rocks with a lip up the sides to create a >> basin that would slope into the pond. I would >> have the plastic overlap the edge of the pond >> liner. I would put a 8" length of pvc pipe >> attached to my tubing from the pump and the pvc >> would have holes along it width to form the >> waterfall. I would put rocks over this to conceal >> the source of the water. My rocks are from our >> fields and I have been coating the ones around >> the pond with an acrylic sealer so they look >> prettier. Would that be save to use on the rocks >> in the waterfall since the water will be running >> over them and into the pond? I am getting >> impatient for the weather to warm up. I am so >> wanting to put some koi in the pond but am afraid >> to buy some from a store and put them in the cold >> water. It is averaging about 32 to 40 at night >> here. I know koi can take cold water but figure >> since they are coming from a warm store it will >> be too much of a shock?? thanks for the help, Rose >> >> Hi Rose, >> >> I would say only one thing. It is possible to do what you >> are >> trying ……….But >> br> >> Believe it or not, it all goes to where you are located. >> Miami, Florida? >> No problem! Buffalo, New York------problem! Why? Excessive >> frost >> anything with water in or around it will heave upward >> because of frost >> on the first wintry day that you have. Result? >> All of your hard work would be lost. >> >> bill in pa >> >> Red Barn Farm >> Rose Herbst >> 11843 Flambeau Road >> Butternut, WI 54514 >> http://redbarnfarm.net/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s >> >> >> Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when >> replying, Thank You. >> ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> >> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is >> NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of >> the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new >> subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. >> , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> >> If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of >> unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by >> clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  >> >> Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com >> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a >> time in a single email >> >> Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com >> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to >> read messages on the group and post replies. >> >> Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com >> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >>     AquaticLife-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com >> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53577	From: Ray	Date: 5/19/2012
Subject: Re: Is this a good liner??

The width of your planned waterfall, and the width and numbers of shallow areas would of course depend on how wide you order your liner. As I mentioned, you need only 15' width to accommodate your pond (without any shallow area). A 3' wide shallow area on one side would give you an off-cut of 2' x 20' when you order an additional 5' wide (20' instead of 15'). This is not to consider another shallow area on the other side. A 2' wide section isn't very wide though, to use for a waterfall, unless you don't want anything too wide. If you make the shallow area 2' wide, then you'll have a 3' x 20' cut-off, which would be more useful in making your waterfall. We know that your waterfall will not be 20' long, but that dimension would be best used for it's length (height), allowing 3' for the waterfall's width, cutting off the excess of the 20' length to match your planned waterfall height. I don't know what you have planned for the shallow area(s), or what kinds of plants you're planning to put there -- or even how wide you're planning to make the shallow area(s), although I seem to recall you may have said 3' wide a couple of months ago (I could be wrong). This is one area where you need to plan its use before planning its width. Most often such a shallow area is used for marginal (bog) plants. While water lilies may be placed there, it would not allow for the spreading of the leaves in the direction of the area's edge where it meets the ground. It would only permit the leaves to spread outward toward the main section of the pond. Water lilies are usually situated somewhere in the main section of the pond, perhaps on weighted (with rocks) milk crates resting on the 4' bottom. Then too, this also depends on what size water lilies you're thinking of getting, as they come in various sizes (various leaf spreads). Smaller water lilies would be more suitable for a shallow (bog) area at the pond's side. A second shallow area on the opposite side of the pond would require an another additional 5' width (25' wide). One thing to consider with shallow areas on both sides of the pond is that now it limits your access to the pond's main 4' deep section if you need to get at it; you'd be limited to accessing the deep pond area from the pond's ends -- and then, not very easily if you have the waterfall at one of the ends. I really wouldn't recommend two shallow areas with one on each side of the pond. Usually, and especially if you have any taller bog plants such as Water Iris, Sweetflag, Canna, Cattails or Pickerel Rush, etc, the shallow area that these plants are on are at the opposite side of the pond you're viewing the pond from, so as not to block your view of the pond and fish. The taller plants would be placed nearer the pond's far edge and shorter bog plants closer to the viewer near the drop off where it meets the deeper water. Koi are herbivores and will take advantage of any bog plants they can access, so most pond owners put in a barrier of just enough larger but inobtrusive rocks along the edge of their shallow areas where it meets the drop off to deeper water. These would be completely submersed and spaced so that the fish couldn't get in between them to the bog area. You would not (could not, unless you want your bog plants eaten) use the shallow area for a Koi feeding area unless you don't want bog plants. If the shallow area is only for fish feeding, then you need only one such area, which the fish will get used to using at feeding time. But normally, the fish are fed in the center/deeper area of the pond. I will add, that if the Koi do have access to the shallow area, that they won't bother with most taller bog plants such as hardy Cattails, Horsetail, Canna and other very tough tall emersed-leaf plants, but they may eat many low-growing bog plants. Allowing for the Koi's growth, if you plan on allowing them into the shallow area, it should probably be about 18" deep, since these fish can easily get to 32" long or more and have a large girth. If you're going to use the shallow area for bog plants, be aware that most bog plants require no more than 6" of water over their crowns -- some requiring no more than 3" of water over their crowns. This still leaves some plants, like water Iris (and others) being able to take up to 2' of water over their crowns, although these too will thrive in a foot or less of water. Hardy Lilies like depths of up to 2' over their crowns while Tropical Lilies prefer not much more than 1' of water over their crowns. This also goes with the plants' size. There are Dwarf Water Lilies which are best kept in 6" - 8" of water. I wasn't aware that Oase went out of business; that's really too bad. No surprise that you were confused by DrsFosterSmith's explanation of various filtering systems as it's a lot of info to digest. Cyprio makes a good pond filter, but you'd need to then buy a pump. Many pond filters, even the Oase, do not come with pumps -- they're sold separately. and Cyprio is also one that offers pumps (in 3 sizes, depending on your needs and waterfall head); naturally, the pump should match the filter, so as not to overpower it. There are other very good pump manufactures -- Alita, Little Giant and Pondmaster to name a few (all submersible). They should always be kept a bit off of the bottom so as not to draw debris into them. Sequence (brand) is an excellent above ground pump if they fit your needs -- in various sizes. Simply put, "Head Height" is the height of your water fall above the ground. This height determines how large of a water pump you need. The higher the waterfall above the ground (above the pond's water surface), the larger the pump you'd need to pump the same amount of water. The same pump will pump less water the higher it needs to pump it, above the ground. The fact that your water pump would be nearly 4' under water has nothing to do with head height as the work needing to lift water starts only at the water surface. Don't ever be embarrassed to ask any questions -- that's what we're here for. You can't be expected to know everything. I'm just glad to be able to give you some answers, as I was a manager (before retiring) for Waterford Gardens -- previously Tricker's Water Gardens, one of the leading water garden suppliers since 1917. BTW, to get some ideas of what's available in pumps and filters, etc., why don't you call Waterford Gardens (in saddle River, NJ) for a free catalog, at (201) - 327-0721. You can then ask them any other questions you may have, at this same time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > Thanks for responding so timely!! I wanted to make sure before I ordered so I can get in on this great price!! Considering they have free shipping, I am saving $70.00- which is how much more I would have had to pay at another place I found same size liner (the shipping was high). > > Yes, I did plan to put waterfall. Not sure how wide and long I can make it with the leftover liner? I had planned to do a shallow area and still plan to do so - sorry if I forgot to mention it. So with the shallow area (a feeding/plant shelf) AND a waterfall, would the 20' still work for the width? Or would I need to go to the 25'? I don't mind having some leftover. I just don't want to not have enough! How deep would you recommend the shallow/feeding shelf be? Would it be okay to put plants on there as well? I have heard that koi are destructible with plants and like to eat them so I've stayed away from pond plants in the past because of it. Also- how big should the shelf be? Should it just be on one side, correct? As not to eat up more space in the pond itself and diminish it in gallons. > > I was looking at the Oase filters that someone previously recommended (you or John?) and I have not been able to find them anywhere. Their website says that they are no longer made?? Since I about have the liner situation under control, I am wondering about a water pump/fountain and the biological filter. I actually asked Drs. FosterSmith 's Customer service and I was just confused about the info they gave me. Could someone please explain this to me in layman's terms? (Please excuse- I am VERY new to this pond building stuff and want to learn!) What do they mean about the head height as they say? This pump will be in 4 feet of water. I am assuming that I will need to set it up on something inside the pond since it will be pretty deep? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. I just want to make sure I get these things right so I'm not shaking my head later, having been too embarassed to ask questions to begin with! > > Thanks! > > Desire' > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ray > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:44 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Is this a good liner?? > > > > Hi Desire', > > Yes, this is exactly the right kind of liner to buy. There are other more expensive liners, such Xavan Liners, but you really don't need to go that far. Xavan does have a guarantee of 25 years vs 20 years for EPDM, but then it costs about $20 per foot for 19.5' wide material (price based on how long you need this material from a 19.5' wide roll), and $15 for 14.7' wide material. Most water gardeners use EPDM however. Yes, the 45 Mil, as advertised by Drs Foster & Smith is the right (STANDARD) thickness for EPDM. > > The extra foot you added to the length of this pond (from 9', now to 10') will not necessitate anything larger than the 20' I first recommended. This will give you 1' overlap onto the ground (at the top), as I first mentioned. > > I can't confirm 20' as being needed for the width, as you're now giving the pond width as only 5', and I believe you stated you were planning on having an additional shallow area on the side -- which would need to include more material than just having a 5' width. The 20' I mentioned for the width would have included this shallow area, but I don't see you mention that idea any longer here. Without that additional shallow area, you're 5' width would need just 15' of material -- which would also give you exactly 1' overlap at the top. If however, you're still planning on the shallow area, you would need the extra 5' of width (for 20' wide). By DrsFosterSmith's ad, it appears they cut to custom made ponds. By this, I'm taking it that they are willing to custom cut to any size you're making your pond, but if so, this would only pertain to the pond length if it didn't work out to come to a 5' increment. > > The EPDM liners come as standard widths of 5.5'. 10', 15', 20', 25', 30', 35', 40' and 50'. You would automatically get a 20' width if you wanted the shallow area even though you would only need 18' -- and would have to pay for 20' as the width comes on a roll 20' wide and wouldn't be custom cut. If it was, you'd still need to pay for 20' wide, as you'd need to pay for the 2' cut-off waste. As you're planning a waterfall though, provided this waterfall isn't very wide, you could use this off-cut for that application. It would be much better than using plastic sheeting for a waterfall. You would join the waterfall liner to the pond liner with double-sided (3" wide) EPDM tape, and would have an absolutely waterproof joint. You should (although not essential) get a quart of "Quick Prime Plus" to apply to the joint before putting the tape on to doubly ensure the best adhesion of the tape. This is especially important in cool weather. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@> wrote: > > > > Saw this awesome sale and wanted to take advantage of it for my upcoming koi pond! Just wanted to know if this was the right kind of liner to buy! The right thickness, etc. Thanks!!! > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9213 > > > > > > I have so many questions but I'll ask later! Time is short right now. Thank you! > > > > > > > > Desire' in Louisiana > > for the spoiled kois- Elle, Ginger and Spooks > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53578	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/20/2012
Subject: Re: "Cycling"

I will listen to the podcast when I have some time to do so, maybe later tonight or tomorrow and then offer you my opinion on the information contained in it. You are correct about anaerobic bacteria and how the environment needs to be low to no oxygen for them to survive and/or thrive. This is why trying to create denitrification in a main tank can be dangerous to any plants and animals in the tank where this is happening. Denitrification in a main tank requires a deep sand bed (5 - 7 inches) and the actual process of denitrification happens in approximately the lower 1 - 2 inches of substrate depending on the water current. This also requires an environment where the substrate is not disturbed by animals or gravel vacs. The other reason denitrification is best done in a refugium type situation is because of the actual process. When anaerobic bacteria break down nitrate they convert it to nitrogen gas, which in higher levels, is toxic to aquarium animals, often referred to as "dead spots". (Dead spots can contribute to lowered pH and the build up of other toxic gases such as hydrogen sulfide. The break down of nitrogen is a complicated process to explain. I am doing my best to simplify it here for the purposes of this post) Because of the needed environment for denitrification, what often happens when trying to achieve this in a main tank is that the lower oxygen levels contribute to the build up of nitrogen gas within the tank, thus leading to the demise of the animals. If proper circulation is maintained to avoid this problem and sustain the animals then it defeats the purpose of dentrification because it kills the anaerobic bacteria. This applies to saltwater and freshwater both. In a marine refugium situation denitrification is most often created by using a deep (5 - 7 inches) aragonite sand bed (lack of O2 penetrating the sand to allow for bacteria growth) and often combined with macro algae such as caulerpa, which utilizes the nitrogen for it's growth. Lava rock and live rock, if quality rock, would be too porous to create an ideal situation for denitrification and are most often used for nitrification instead. In a freshwater refugium situation denitrification is often created by using a deep (5 - 7 inches) silica sand bed (this prevents the higher pH and calcium level that would come from aragonite sand) along with live plants that are known to be heavy utilizers of nitrogen such as hornwort, anacharis, naja grass, etc. Refugiums are set up so that water from the main tank trickles slowly into the refugium tank/box, which means no current, no power heads, no filters, no gravel vacs or cleaning of the substrate, etc. take place. Current creates O2, which would kill anaerobic bacteria. The water from the refugium will then channel slowly across the substrate and through the plants and then out of the refugium, typically via a drain pipe, where the "filtered" water is then drained back to the main tank. Gravity is the typical method for channeling water through such a system since "forcing" water through via mechanical methods defeats the purpose by creating a higher oxygen situation that would kill the anaerobic bacteria. While this may sound complicated it really is not. The biggest drawback of using a refugium is the space that is needed at the proper level for gravity to aid in this process. As mentioned in my previous post, this type of set up can be very effective at reducing nitrate, especially with animals such as goldfish, large cichlids, and other known heavy waste producers. I'm not sure where you heard the information about not dropping nitrate below 40 in a freshwater tank, but that would be incorrect. A healthy tank has a very low nitrate level, as low as one can get it. Nitrate is toxic to the animals, the higher the level of nitrate the higher the level of toxicity. High nitrate can not only stunt growth of fish but it is a major contributor to bacterial and fungal illness issues, it weakens the immune system, and can also cause vast and varying amounts of organ damage. A nitrate level of 40 should be viewed as the maximum desired level in a freshwater tank, and in a marine tank this drops to about 20. It IS possible to have a perfectly healthy and cycled tank with 0 nitrate, if the environment is set up properly so that biological filtration is processing all waste naturally. This is very different from over cleaning a tank, however, and should not be confused with a tank that reads 0 nitrate due to massive and frequent water changes, which eliminates the waste before it is allowed to break down into nitrate. An over cleaned aquarium will develop constant problems with ammonia and nitrite because it lacks the biological situation to break these down immediately and safely, and thus the tank never fully cycles. Again, this applies to marine as well as freshwater. I hope this helps you to sort out the information you had prior to this post. I will continue to do my best to answer your questions about denitrification as much as I can, and for the benefit of the group I will try to keep it somewhat simplified, but please understand that such things are not "simple" in nature and thus the information can get complicated. As mentioned above, there is a lot of chemistry involved in the breakdown of nitrate, there is nothing simple about this process. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kbgwp" <kbgwp@...> wrote: > > Thanks Dawn, > I wanted to mention that but I don't really know enough to explain it. I do remember when I had a salt water tank (10 gallon...no fish) I was surprised to see all the test numbers including Nitrate drop to zero. Since my gravel bed was only an inch or so deep, I suspect it was the large amount of live rock that removed the nitrate. I remember hearing a PETFISHTALK podcast about a denitrification trick that used lava rock to remove the nitrate. I think it was anaerobic (without oxygen) bacteria that did it. I also remember them saying that you should NOT have zero nitrate. I don't know why that would be a problem but, unless I'm remembering wrong, they said not to let it drop below -now I'm really guessing- 40 ppm. Correct me if I got that wrong but they were talking freshwater. I'm pretty sure saltwater should be all zeros - again I could be wrong. > > ...Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > I'd just like to make one correction to the information John has provided about the nitrogen cycle. There IS a natural process that breaks down nitrate (denitrification), it just isn't as commonly used in freshwater as it is in marine tanks. The use of a refugium is the most popular method of denitrification, and yes, this CAN be set up and used for a freshwater tank if one so desires, and it is very effective if done correctly. > > > > I won't get into a deep explanation of such a thing unless someone is in true need of the information at this time, as my time is limited right now and it would require a bit of depth to explain fully. This is also something that can vary in it's set up methods depending on what is in the main tank, where & how it is set up, etc. I just wanted to make sure that everyone reading this thread is aware that there is such a thing and that it can be done. > > > > Dawn >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53579	From: cobra427lady	Date: 5/20/2012
Subject: Re: Welcome Back, Ray!

Just glad to see you are back - feel stronger everyday and thanks for everything your do! BTW, the gudgeons are trying again - they are such fussy little eaters - finally found something other than tubifex that they will eat - glass worms LOL Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cobra427lady" <clare@...> wrote: > > Great news to hear you are on the mend, Ray! This group values and respects your wisdom and though others can and do admirably pick up the torch, you are missed :-) > > Now I understand why you never replied to my direct email....hope you can get a new computer soon - try a Mac LOL I love mine! > > Oh, btw, I had such success with the albino lf bn plecs and german blue rams last year (4 large spawns each) that I have begun breeding multis and peacock gudgeons...I am getting spawns and fry within weeks of set up! The multis are comparatively easier to breed that the rams, but still fun to watch as they are harem breeding shell dwellers - they crack me up just watching them. I ordered the peacock gudgeons online & they just got here last week and I already had a spawn in the pvc tube, but the male ate them after 24 hours - oh, well, I hope he keeps trying. Practice makes perfect.... > > You were such a fount of information and I learned so much that I decided to branch out and try something new - thanks tons, Ray,for being a part of my endeavors! > > Cheers, > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53580	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 5/21/2012
Subject: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria

Me again. I wanted to put this in a separate email than from the pond liner one. My kois for the last few months have been digging at the gravel in their aquarium and sometimes swimming rather oddly. I have not seen any flashing though- unless they do that when I don't see it. I was wondering if they might possibly have something wrong and the best way to treat them, esp. since I don't know for sure if they have something wrong and if so, what it is. I will be moving them to a temporary outside pond (to give them more swimming room) in the next week or so and wanted to treat them before putting them in temp. pond. What would I have to buy to treat them if they do have something wrong? This way I can get it ordered and take care of the situation. Also- I am concerned about destroying the good bacteria that has built up in my 7 month old system. I don't want to have to worry about nitrite and ammonia highs again. I want to be able to transport the good bacteria over to the temp. pond - how would I go about doing this since I may have to treat the aquarium? I had planned to help fill the pond with the water in the aquarium and if it has to be treated, then I wonder what to do in that case? Use the aquarium water still or fresh water from the hose (conditioned of course)? Sorry for all the questions. I wish I had more knowledge on fish- I'm learning. I never would have thought to check water levels and such had it not been for this group telling me that its essential for me to do when I had problems with wintering my koi inside last fall. I've come a little ways in the last few months and hope to learn a lot more as time/experience progresses. Thanks again for all the info! Desire' in Louisiana P.S. I will respond about the pond liner emails when I return home this afternoon/evening. Thanks! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53581	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/21/2012
Subject: Re: plastic water fall liner

Hi Georgene, Welcome to the group. I'm sorry to hear you lost one of your Koi. There are a few things to deter predators that you might want to look into, electronic scarers that are movement activated have always given good result in my experience because they emit random calls rather than a generic one that the birds would get used to. Another idea is the electric fences that string around the pond. They are low voltage & small enough to be almost invisible although I have known determined birds to step over them & risk the discomfort anyway. A better but far more obtrusive method is to completely net or grill your pond but this can be a bit of an eyesore & time consuming to remove & refit when doing maintenance. John*<o)))< * On 20 May 2012 03:07, Weims and Labs <woofs3in18103@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, I am new to aquatic life. What a wealth of pond and aquarium > information you all have to offer. I'm from PA. I have 2- 30 gal tanks. > We put a heater with a thermostat in our pond for the winter. You just > need a hole in the ice for the CO2 to escape. We do not feed the fish all > winter, we also cut back on their slow metabolic food by late fall. We > have a koi about a foot long that we've had 5+years. We did have 2 koi but > one was picked up by a blue heron. Sadly he dropped it in the grass on a 90 > degree day. We now keep a heron watch. > > Georgene, Hunter, Harley, and Rocky > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53582	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford [2 Attachments]

Hi Everyone, I posted this on another fishkeeping forum so apologies if you are reading it again but I thought it was such a heartwarming story that I would copy it here as well. Last November I took 3 Koi that had been left in a pond when the owner died to a friend's 4000 gallon pond 70 miles away in Staffordshire. Last week the new owner of the house with the old pond called me & said that he had found another fish in there. The pond has not had any filtration for 6 months since we took those 3 Koi out & had been partially drained last year to just over a foot of liquid mud which had frozen over completely during the Winter. They were bailing the last bit of this out last week so that they could remove the liner & fill it all in when suddenly a fish was tipped out of one of the buckets into the drain. Luckily there was a grill on the drain & they quickly put him back in the tiny amount of water that was left. When I got a phone call about this I was thinking the worst & imagined I'd find a very poorly & probably injured fish when I got there but as I drained the last of the mud I found a lovely, healthy 14 inch Tench wallowing at the bottom. Several of the ponds I maintain have Tench but I had never been up close to one before or handled one & they are really soft & silky-like a scale-less Koi. I had previously got a large tub ready for him with half filthy pond water/half clean, aerated fresh water, he was quite happy for me to pick him up & place him in the tub. I think living in that swamp for so long had probably slowed his reactions down but as soon as he was tubbed I set it in my car with a small battery powered airstone & we got going for his new home. The journey was about 90 minutes & along the way I heard him splash in the tub occasionally which is a good sign-like he was coming round from his 6 month stupour. Once we were there I spent an hour or so just adding small amounts of the new pond water to the tub while removing the old to acclimatise him. Then I set the tub in the pond & let him come out in his own time-he must have thought all his Christmasses had come at once! It's nice to know this beautiful fish is now in a safe & clean environment with his 3 other friends from the same pond & about 80 other assorted Goldfish & small Koi. Here is a short movie of him moving into his new home: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v684/mrbushy/?action=view¤t=MrTenchGoesToStafford.mp4 He is similar to a Koi but sleeker & more eel-like with small fins & very tiny, smooth scales-a really nice looking fish. John*<o)))< * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53583	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria

Digging in the gravel is normal behavior for koi, they spend a lot of their time foraging. Can you explain about "swimming oddly" please? Thus far you have not given any indication to indicate a medical problem in need of medication. Are there any other symptoms at all? If not then I would not attempt to medicate these fish for fear of doing more harm than good. Koi have very strong immune systems and are not prone to most of the typical diseases we see in aquarium fish. It's never safe to medicate any animal unless you know for sure what you are treating for. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire' A. Heatherly" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > Me again. I wanted to put this in a separate email than from the pond liner one. > > My kois for the last few months have been digging at the gravel in their aquarium and sometimes swimming rather oddly. I have not seen any flashing though- unless they do that when I don't see it. I was wondering if they might possibly have something wrong and the best way to treat them, esp. since I don't know for sure if they have something wrong and if so, what it is. I will be moving them to a temporary outside pond (to give them more swimming room) in the next week or so and wanted to treat them before putting them in temp. pond. What would I have to buy to treat them if they do have something wrong? This way I can get it ordered and take care of the situation. > > Also- I am concerned about destroying the good bacteria that has built up in my 7 month old system. I don't want to have to worry about nitrite and ammonia highs again. I want to be able to transport the good bacteria over to the temp. pond - how would I go about doing this since I may have to treat the aquarium? I had planned to help fill the pond with the water in the aquarium and if it has to be treated, then I wonder what to do in that case? Use the aquarium water still or fresh water from the hose (conditioned of course)? > > Sorry for all the questions. I wish I had more knowledge on fish- I'm learning. I never would have thought to check water levels and such had it not been for this group telling me that its essential for me to do when I had problems with wintering my koi inside last fall. I've come a little ways in the last few months and hope to learn a lot more as time/experience progresses. > > Thanks again for all the info! > Desire' in Louisiana > > P.S. I will respond about the pond liner emails when I return home this afternoon/evening. Thanks! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53584	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford

What a nice story, and what a cool fish! Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53585	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: [TotallyGoldfish] Mr Tench Goes To Stafford

Thanks David, Sherrii & Cheryl, I've got quite used to moving fish around the country now! I got an update from Jim who owns the pond & saw him today, Mr Tench is doing great. I didn't know but as well as the small Koi & masses of Goldfish there's also Orfe, Rudd & a few more Tench in there too so he'll be having a *whale*of a time. I'm probably going back there mid Summer to build a reed bed filter on the pond. John*<o)))< * On 22 May 2012 17:24, Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: > ** > > > What a nice story, and what a cool fish! > > Cheryl from Seattle > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53586	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/22/2012
Subject: Re: Possible fish treatment / Keeping good bacteria

Hi Desire' Kois are famous for their digging antics-I wouldn't let that behaviour worry you. They're always foraging for food & digging is part of this. That is why it is very difficult to get any plants to grow in Koi ponds except for sturdy water lilies & other plants that have huge roots-even then it is no guarantee. Just last week I had to re-sink a large lily that had been dug up by the occupants & then left to float around the pond-usually once they have dug something up & find out what is underneath they are not interested anymore! Can you elaborate on the odd swimming? Is there anything in their physical appearance that makes you think something is wrong-spots, lumps, oddly shaped marks, anything that was not there before or change in colouring etc? Has this strange behaviour only just started & when you first noticed it, had you changed anything in you maintenance regime or added or removed anything from the tank? Even a change in food/feeding times or water conditioner could be significant so no matter how trivial let us know if anything has changed. If you could post some pictures then that would be great. If there is anything amiss then it is likely that simple salt will take care of it & if so then that will have little or no effect on your eco system. Has your tank been running at the same parameters steadily [nitrate, nitrite, ammonia & pH] or has anything altered? Finally, you mentioned about putting your fish outdoors soon-can you say what size temporary pond they are going into? It would also be a good idea to cover it with some strong mesh or netting to ensure they are safe from predators. John On 21 May 2012 13:46, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > Me again. I wanted to put this in a separate email than from the pond > liner one. > > My kois for the last few months have been digging at the gravel in their > aquarium and sometimes swimming rather oddly. I have not seen any flashing > though- unless they do that when I don't see it. I was wondering if they > might possibly have something wrong and the best way to treat them, esp. > since I don't know for sure if they have something wrong and if so, what it > is. I will be moving them to a temporary outside pond (to give them more > swimming room) in the next week or so and wanted to treat them before > putting them in temp. pond. What would I have to buy to treat them if they > do have something wrong? This way I can get it ordered and take care of the > situation. > > Also- I am concerned about destroying the good bacteria that has built up > in my 7 month old system. I don't want to have to worry about nitrite and > ammonia highs again. I want to be able to transport the good bacteria over > to the temp. pond - how would I go about doing this since I may have to > treat the aquarium? I had planned to help fill the pond with the water in > the aquarium and if it has to be treated, then I wonder what to do in that > case? Use the aquarium water still or fresh water from the hose > (conditioned of course)? > > Sorry for all the questions. I wish I had more knowledge on fish- I'm > learning. I never would have thought to check water levels and such had it > not been for this group telling me that its essential for me to do when I > had problems with wintering my koi inside last fall. I've come a little > ways in the last few months and hope to learn a lot more as time/experience > progresses. > > Thanks again for all the info! > Desire' in Louisiana > > P.S. I will respond about the pond liner emails when I return home this > afternoon/evening. Thanks! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<mustanggirl83@...?subject=Re%3A%20Possible%20fish%20treatment%20%2F%20Keeping%20good%20bacteria>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Possible%20fish%20treatment%20%2F%20Keeping%20good%20bacteria>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOWwyNGphBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzNzYwODk0Nw--?act=reply&messageNum=53580>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmsxYTdoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNzYwODk0Nw--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53580;_ylc=X3oDMTM2YmZ1NWpyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNTgwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzNzYwODk0NwR0cGNJZAM1MzU4MA-->( > 1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNGZhbmU0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzc2MDg5NDc-?o=6> > 4 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWdzYnZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzNzYwODk0Nw--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53587	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 5/26/2012
Subject: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

After many years of wanting one, I just got a 20 gallon aquarium. Won't be setting it up for another few months because I plan to move soon, but thought I'd get as much info as possible now. It's my best thrift store find ever! Whoever donated it included what I think is a breeder tank as well as a filter, siphon, and some gravel that they sterilized in a pressure cooker. Not fond of the neon blue gravel, so I might get a more natural color for substrate and add some glass baubles for interest. My favorite fish are fantail goldfish, but I'm not sure there's enough room in the tank for such messy fish. I know I'll have to do a partial water change every week no matter what I put in there. My houseplants will love the dirty fish water, I'm sure. I have read on caresheets that you should allow 10 gallons of tank space per goldfish, so if they're right I can keep up to two. I have a friend who used to breed them, and she agrees with the caresheets. I know that the "one gallon per inch of fish" rule definitely doesn't apply to goldfish. But I'm not sure whether ten gallons per fish is the right amount. If the caresheets are wrong, what other fish should I get? I'm obviously a beginner if I'm asking this sort of question, so they need to be easy to care for. The only fish I've ever had was a betta, and I had to keep him in a bowl because I was in college at the time and wasn't allowed to have anything electric in the tank, not even a bubble filter, in the dorms. I don't have a heater for the aquarium, but I'm sure I could buy one. In additon to goldfish, I also like colorful schooling fish. Also, how should I plant the tank? Fake plants or live plants? How much of the tank should be planted? I would appreciate all the advice for my first aquarium that people can give! -Katherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53588	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Hi Katherine, It's good to be able to help someone who asks questions first because so many times [both on forums & in my job of pond maintenance] we have to try to fix problems after the event-so...whatever fish you finally get they will certainly have a good Mom! You are correct that 20 gallons is not large enough for Goldfish-you could get away with raising a couple of babies in there for a few months but then you would have to upgrade to a much larger tank with a bigger filtration system & that would defeat the whole point of setting up a tank that is both a pleasure for you to watch & also a happy home for the fish. That 10 gallon per Goldfish rule doesn't take into account the fact that they grow & consequently need more dilution. Can you tell us what make & model your filter is please-if it has a label on it. You will do right to get rid of the old gravel-some natural, rounded grade would be far better-the artificially coloured gravels often have pigment that can leech into the water With regard to what type[s] of fish are going to be suitable I will leave that to the other folks on here as I only know about Goldfish. I would guess a small tropical community & that would need a heater but is very low maintenance compared to Goldfish. The old water is definitely good for your houseplants-mine are thriving on a diet of fish waste! Plants-I always go for live plants even though they may be harder to set up because I think it's nicer for the fish but again that is a personal choice although with a community tank you will have a lot of choice. I have had to restrict my types of plants to just a few because my Goldfish tear most things up & eat them. I would recommend you sterilize the tank & equipment again yourself just to be safe. You also want to test fill it for a few hours-preferably outside just to make sure that everything is watertight. You can also set up the filter while you are testing the tank so that you know it is running smoothly & there is no undue vibration or noise. If you can get hold of potassium permanganate [PP] crystals from a local chemist then add just the tiniest amount to the tank once it is full & running. That will turn the water pink as they dissolve & kill off anything nasty that could be lurking but be careful-that stuff not only stains clothing permanently but is also very toxic so take suitable precautions when handling. If you cannot get any PP then use white vinegar-a quarter cup full should do the job. Once you have sterilized & cleaned the tank, empty it & refill, this time add a couple of dessert spoons of rock/sea/aquarium/pickling/kosher [not table] salt. Finally empty & swill out with clean running water. Just a note about moving tanks-never carry any glass tank with water in-it will strain the seals & possibly break so always drain before moving & then refill once it is in place. John*<o)))< * On 27 May 2012 06:09, Katherine Whitney <kl_whitney@...> wrote: > ** > > > After many years of wanting one, I just got a 20 gallon aquarium. Won't be > setting it up for another few months because I plan to move soon, but > thought I'd get as much info as possible now. It's my best thrift store > find ever! Whoever donated it included what I think is a breeder tank as > well as a filter, siphon, and some gravel that they sterilized in a > pressure cooker. Not fond of the neon blue gravel, so I might get a more > natural color for substrate and add some glass baubles for interest. > My favorite fish are fantail goldfish, but I'm not sure there's enough > room in the tank for such messy fish. I know I'll have to do a partial > water change every week no matter what I put in there. My houseplants will > love the dirty fish water, I'm sure. I have read on caresheets that you > should allow 10 gallons of tank space per goldfish, so if they're right I > can keep up to two. I have a friend who used to breed them, and she agrees > with the caresheets. I know that the "one gallon per inch of fish" rule > definitely doesn't apply to goldfish. But I'm not sure whether ten gallons > per fish is the right amount. > If the caresheets are wrong, what other fish should I get? I'm obviously a > beginner if I'm asking this sort of question, so they need to be easy to > care for. The only fish I've ever had was a betta, and I had to keep him in > a bowl because I was in college at the time and wasn't allowed to have > anything electric in the tank, not even a bubble filter, in the dorms. I > don't have a heater for the aquarium, but I'm sure I could buy one. In > additon to goldfish, I also like colorful schooling fish. > Also, how should I plant the tank? Fake plants or live plants? How much of > the tank should be planted? > I would appreciate all the advice for my first aquarium that people can > give! > -Katherine > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53589	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Goldfish need more like 30-50 gallons of water per fish. How about neon tetras? You will need a heater if you are going to keep tropicals. Enjoy it! _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Whitney Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank? After many years of wanting one, I just got a 20 gallon aquarium. Won't be setting it up for another few months because I plan to move soon, but thought I'd get as much info as possible now. It's my best thrift store find ever! Whoever donated it included what I think is a breeder tank as well as a filter, siphon, and some gravel that they sterilized in a pressure cooker. Not fond of the neon blue gravel, so I might get a more natural color for substrate and add some glass baubles for interest. My favorite fish are fantail goldfish, but I'm not sure there's enough room in the tank for such messy fish. I know I'll have to do a partial water change every week no matter what I put in there. My houseplants will love the dirty fish water, I'm sure. I have read on caresheets that you should allow 10 gallons of tank space per goldfish, so if they're right I can keep up to two. I have a friend who used to breed them, and she agrees with the caresheets. I know that the "one gallon per inch of fish" rule definitely doesn't apply to goldfish. But I'm not sure whether ten gallons per fish is the right amount. If the caresheets are wrong, what other fish should I get? I'm obviously a beginner if I'm asking this sort of question, so they need to be easy to care for. The only fish I've ever had was a betta, and I had to keep him in a bowl because I was in college at the time and wasn't allowed to have anything electric in the tank, not even a bubble filter, in the dorms. I don't have a heater for the aquarium, but I'm sure I could buy one. In additon to goldfish, I also like colorful schooling fish. Also, how should I plant the tank? Fake plants or live plants? How much of the tank should be planted? I would appreciate all the advice for my first aquarium that people can give! -Katherine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53590	From: Jason	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Hi everyone!

Hi everyone, I am new to this site and I have been in the hobby of goldfish ponds and aquariums for 4 years now now. I have 3 aquariums and 3 goldfish ponds that are full of plants. I have in my ponds mostly water hyacinths and water poppies. I also have some water lettuce, anacharis, and water lilies. I have fantail and comet goldfish and a lot newts in my ponds. If you would like to chat please write anytime. Take care, Jason

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53591	From: Patrick	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine Whitney" wrote: > After many years of wanting one, I just got a 20 gallon aquarium. Congrats and welcome to the hobby. > My favorite fish are fantail goldfish, > I have read on caresheets that you should > allow 10 gallons of tank space per goldfish, Ya the ten gallons per fish is kind of a minimum suggestion and usually assumes you are buying small fish. If you went with a fantail, I would suggest that you treat the 20 gallon as a first grow out tank with a bigger tank later. If you don't want to get anything bigger, you may want to rethink the fantail. > so if they're right I can keep up to two. > I have a friend who used to breed them, > and she agrees with the caresheets. Well to be fair, if she was breeding them (successfully) then she was probably also changing a lot of water frequently if she was keeping them at that density. For casual keepers, this isn't usually convenient and you may not be able or willing to change enough water often enough to support a pair of fantails in a 20 gallon. > I know that the "one gallon per inch of fish" rule definitely > doesn't apply to goldfish. And it really only applies to other fish in a very limited scope. Generally that rule of thumb was developed for beginners would would be buying standard rectangular (longer than tall) tanks and would be buying small (2-inch max) fish like Neons, tiger barbs and other popular "bread and butter" tropical fish. Throw in bigger species, heavy bodied fish, tall tanks, and the like that that rule of thumb starts to not apply anymore. > I don't have a heater for the aquarium, but I'm sure I could > buy one. If you want tropical fish, then yes, most will require you to keep the tank at anywhere from around 72 degrees and higher depending on fish species. If you want to skip a heater there are plenty of choices of "room temperature" fish you would try. > Also, how should I plant the tank? Fake plants or live plants? I have live plants in all my tanks but I generally keep easy ones that do not have a lot of special requirements like high intensity lighting, special substrates and the like. Nothing wrong with fake plants though. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53592	From: rachell7	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Patrick, what do you consider to be 'room temperature' fish and what are some of the 'easy' plants you would recommend? RaChell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > > If you want tropical fish, then yes, most will require you to keep the tank at anywhere from around 72 degrees and higher depending on fish species. If you want to skip a heater there are plenty of choices of "room temperature" fish you would try. > > > > Also, how should I plant the tank? Fake plants or live plants? > > I have live plants in all my tanks but I generally keep easy ones that do not have a lot of special requirements like high intensity lighting, special substrates and the like. Nothing wrong with fake plants though. > > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53593	From: joe t	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Hello, Katherine, and welcome to the club. You are certianly doing the right thing ingetting ready in adavnce. Wish everyone would do that. 20 gallongs is a fair sized tank. It would help if you could give just a bit more information for our members to give you some sound advise. To start off with, you mentioned that you thought you had a breeder tank? The difference would be is the tank "high" or "long"? In my opinion it would make a difference for your gold fish, also. The gold fish would probably have more swimming room in a long tank. (If you decide to go with gold fish.) But befor we even get to that, do yourself a favor, if you can, and fill the tank with water somewhere to make sure it does not leak. That would be a big surprise when you move if it does. LOL. If you are satisfied with one or two pets, the 20 gallons will probably be sufficient for a while. It depends on how big your gold fish get. Some get really big. But in the meantime the 20 gallon tank is certainly a lot better than the "solitary cnfinement" of a "gold fish bowl". Please do not do that to the poor creatures. Live plants with gold fish is a great idea if you do not mind replacing them after the fish nibble them down. Many of the people on this site are probably involved with the holiday and I am sure those involved with gold fish will be answering after the the barbequeing is over. Hope this helped a little. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53594	From: CherylE	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Guppies usually do well at room temp, and they aren't nearly as messy as goldfish, but they do breed like crazy, they also won't harm live plants. Cheryl from Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53595	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

White clouds are another fish that does not need a tank heater providing the room is not too cold. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CherylE Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 7:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank? Guppies usually do well at room temp, and they aren't nearly as messy as goldfish, but they do breed like crazy, they also won't harm live plants. Cheryl from Seattle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53596	From: CherylE	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

In my earlier post I suggested guppies, but alternatively if you want to get a heater then tropicals are good too! Contrary to popular belief, goldfish are not easy to keep and not a good beginner fish, especially fancy goldfish. Common goldfish are hardier, but they can get big and they make a lot of waste. I have a goldfish pond and also a 90 gallon tropical fish tank, I also had a reef tank for many years. I would start with hardy community tropical fish like platy's, tetras, danios etc...the real key to success is not overstocking, doing partial water changes regularly and letting the tanks biological filter catch up by adding only a few fish at a time and being patient. Read, read, read, everything you can find on the net about fish keeping and keep asking questions. You are off to a great start and you will be rewarded with a very exciting new hobby. Cheryl from Seattle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53597	From: Katherine Whitney	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Thanks

Hi all, Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I think I'll get some guppies and put live plants in the tank. If anyone has some spare easy to grow aquatic plants that they can send me a cutting of I'd really appreciate it. I know that if I get both sexes that there need to be more females than males, since a too high male to female ratio results in a lot of stress in the school. I also know that you can keep just males and they'll live peacefully together. Like a fish fraternity. But it would be nice if they would breed. If they overcrowd, I can always find someone else who keeps fish and give them away. Will post again closer to setup time. -Katherine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53598	From: rachell7	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Thanks Cheryl and Donna! Every time I've asked at the pet store, I've been told to get either a beta or gold fish. Neither are fish I really want. At the moment I have some platys which seem to be doing well for almost a year now. Cheryl, I'm doing OK with a 10 gallon tank, but I can not imagine a 90 gallon tank or a reef tank! I've been lurking on this group for about a year and half now and have learned a lot from all of you. So a big Thank You! :) RaChell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "CherylE" <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: > > In my earlier post I suggested guppies, but alternatively if you want to get a heater then tropicals are good too! > > Contrary to popular belief, goldfish are not easy to keep and not a good beginner fish, especially fancy goldfish. Common goldfish are hardier, but they can get big and they make a lot of waste. I have a goldfish pond and also a 90 gallon tropical fish tank, I also had a reef tank for many years. I would start with hardy community tropical fish like platy's, tetras, danios etc...the real key to success is not overstocking, doing partial water changes regularly and letting the tanks biological filter catch up by adding only a few fish at a time and being patient. Read, read, read, everything you can find on the net about fish keeping and keep asking questions. You are off to a great start and you will be rewarded with a very exciting new hobby. > > Cheryl from Seattle >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53599	From: m davis	Date: 5/27/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

I love my goldfish: i have 5 tanks--shut 2 down due to deaths. my goldfish in the 30 gallon are doing well--i have a 50 gallon filter and am using nylon sponges as filtration. this tank has been up for 8 months--only deaths were some rosey reds that the goldfish ate--note to  self: don't put any fish in goldfish tank that can fit in their mouths. i have a 6 in koi in that tank, as well and these nuts are so close, they are almost like siamese twins. I did lose 2 betas---went on two trips in the last 3 weeks, was gone 3 days on the first one and 10 on the other. i put some of those multi day feeders in the tanks; nobody died, except 2 betas. always remember; goldfish don't stay little. my largest one is 7 inches from nose 2 tail. I love my mean, evil, nasty tempered cichlids---and have them in one tank. one  lived in a 10 gallon tank with a goldfish for 8 months, until the cichlid and his tankmate got 2 big.   ________________________________ From: CherylE <cheryl.ellison@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:46 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank? In my earlier post I suggested guppies, but alternatively if you want to get a heater then tropicals are good too! Contrary to popular belief, goldfish are not easy to keep and not a good beginner fish, especially fancy goldfish.  Common goldfish are hardier, but they can get big and they make a lot of waste.  I have a goldfish pond and also a 90 gallon tropical fish tank, I also had a reef tank for many years.  I would start with hardy community tropical fish like platy's, tetras, danios etc...the real key to success is not overstocking, doing partial water changes regularly and letting the tanks biological filter catch up by adding only a few fish at a time and being patient.  Read, read, read, everything you can find on the net about fish keeping and keep asking questions.  You are off to a great start and you will be rewarded with a very exciting new hobby. Cheryl from Seattle ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53600	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks

I'm glad you have decided on something other than goldfish. Goldfish in a small tank is never a good thing... but I won't go into all of those details needlessly at this point. One thing you should be aware of with the guppies is the rate at which they breed, especially if you are only working with a 20 gallon tank. Each female guppy can have anywhere from 30 - 50 fry (baby fish) every 30 days which is the average, but there are some who will exceed the 50+ number. The larger and older the female the more likely they are to have more fry each time. The fry grow and mature very fast and are capable of breeding (amongst themselves and with parent fish) by about 8 - 12 wks of age, and again, each female can have 30+ fry every 30 days. Those who start out breeding guppies without this information usually learn the hard way that they will quickly overpopulate a small tank and can get out of hand which tends to lead to fish losses and a lot of work. This can also be a hard thing to keep up with unless you have a store that is willing to take the fry regularly, as well as having a 2nd tank available for separating male from female fry as soon as they are able to be sexed (usually anywhere from 4 - 6 wks) to avoid further breeding among them. Massive inbreeding among fry also tends to result in genetic deformities in their fry, which is also something to be aware of ahead of time. Also something to be aware of is that any female coming from a store tank with males should be presumed to be pregnant. A female live bearing fish can retain milt (sperm) in her body for up to 3 - 4 months, which means she can produce fry for that many months without a male in the tank. This applies to all live bearing fishes... swordtails, mollys, platys, guppies, etc. I bred live bearers (for the stores) for many yrs. My last round of guppies before I finally shut the breeding down was a number of yrs ago, but I wanted to give you an example of how quickly they can overwhelm you. I started my breeding (that time) with 6 adult females and 2 males in a 30 gallon tank and a 20 gallon tank (to separate male/female and control breeding) Even with the controlled breeding, those 6 females over populated a 55 gallon tank within a matter of 3 months while I had to wait for the fry to mature enough to be sold to the store. By the end of 5 months (when the store suddenly didn't want them for a few months) they had over populated a 90 gallon tank with fry. I tell you this so you are prepared and have the opportunity to rethink the plan to breed them and just give away the fry. It isn't quite that simple unless you have a good constant outlet for the fry and are prepared ahead of time for what will happen. Best of luck to you! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "alleycat0352" <alleycat0352@...> wrote: > > Just wanted to thank those who gave the advice on my little green > puffer. He is doing well. I added aquarium salt. It was iffy at first > but he finally came around. I was thinking it was the threats of > getting another puffer to replace him that brought him back...lol. I > would post a pic, but he is too busy eating up the snails he ignored > for 2 weeks. Thanks again. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53601	From: Patrick	Date: 5/28/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" wrote: > Patrick, what do you consider to be 'room temperature' fish and > what are some of the 'easy' plants you would recommend? As already mentioned by others here common guppies do very well and white cloud mountain minnows are also great. "Feeder" Guppies are an outstanding bargain since you can often get a dozen or whatever for a buck. You just need to be careful of diseases and parasites if you wanted to add them to a tank with other fish in it. But if they are the first and/or only fish going into a tank, then there is nothing to worry about since the new tank would also by default be the quarantine tank to make sure they are all healthy (if you wanted to add other fish or move the guppies to other tanks). I have a ten gallon in my bedroom that is lots of plants and nothing by a free breeding colony of guppies. Very active, pretty, curious fish. If you later add any other species of fish to the tank, they will often act as "breeding control" since they will likely eat the babies. White Clouds can tolerate down right cold tanks, so are a great choice even if a tank gets down to the upper 50s! And if there are no other fish in the tank, they usually will breed as well. Generally White Clouds are very cheap to buy. Rosy barbs are usually touted as tropical but actually moderate temperature fish and do very well at room temperatures. However they are kind of big fish as far as barbs go. The could work in a 20 gallon initially but might be better suited for a 30 gallon or larger. American Flag Fish are another that you see occasionally in stores these days. They nibble algae as well. As to plants, first and foremost the easy ones are simply put the ones that do well in YOUR tank. :) Everyone has different water, lighting, etc. so what is easy for one person is hard for the next. I know that I used to have some plants that did very well for me then after I moved to a new town, some of them didn't work anymore but others did. In general Java Fern, Java Moss, Hornwort (floating plant), Water Sprite (planted or floating), and Anacharis (especially for cool water tanks) tend to be easier plants that are usually not too expensive. Any of the Anubius variants are usually good since they grow in lower light but they also tend to be expensive and slow growing. Many of the Sags and Vals are worth a shot. And I have some Crypts growing in some of my tanks under normal conditions. Some you probably want to avoid that are commonly sold, usually because they really require higher lighting include Banana plants, sword plants (although sometimes you get luck with these in normal tanks) and Cambomba (Fanwort). Reagrds, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53602	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

A really good tip I got from looking at Dawn's tanks is to use strands of the free-floating Hornwort & attach them under rocks or other decor so that they grows upwards towards the light. It is a very pretty plant & looks great displayed like this but only works well in calmer areas where it can grow straight up. John*<o)))< * On 28 May 2012 19:39, Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: > ** > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" wrote: > > Patrick, what do you consider to be 'room temperature' fish and > > what are some of the 'easy' plants you would recommend? > > As already mentioned by others here common guppies do very well and white > cloud mountain minnows are also great. > > "Feeder" Guppies are an outstanding bargain since you can often get a > dozen or whatever for a buck. You just need to be careful of diseases and > parasites if you wanted to add them to a tank with other fish in it. But if > they are the first and/or only fish going into a tank, then there is > nothing to worry about since the new tank would also by default be the > quarantine tank to make sure they are all healthy (if you wanted to add > other fish or move the guppies to other tanks). I have a ten gallon in my > bedroom that is lots of plants and nothing by a free breeding colony of > guppies. Very active, pretty, curious fish. If you later add any other > species of fish to the tank, they will often act as "breeding control" > since they will likely eat the babies. > > White Clouds can tolerate down right cold tanks, so are a great choice > even if a tank gets down to the upper 50s! And if there are no other fish > in the tank, they usually will breed as well. Generally White Clouds are > very cheap to buy. > > Rosy barbs are usually touted as tropical but actually moderate > temperature fish and do very well at room temperatures. However they are > kind of big fish as far as barbs go. The could work in a 20 gallon > initially but might be better suited for a 30 gallon or larger. > > American Flag Fish are another that you see occasionally in stores these > days. They nibble algae as well. > > As to plants, first and foremost the easy ones are simply put the ones > that do well in YOUR tank. :) Everyone has different water, lighting, etc. > so what is easy for one person is hard for the next. I know that I used to > have some plants that did very well for me then after I moved to a new > town, some of them didn't work anymore but others did. > > In general Java Fern, Java Moss, Hornwort (floating plant), Water Sprite > (planted or floating), and Anacharis (especially for cool water tanks) tend > to be easier plants that are usually not too expensive. > > Any of the Anubius variants are usually good since they grow in lower > light but they also tend to be expensive and slow growing. Many of the Sags > and Vals are worth a shot. And I have some Crypts growing in some of my > tanks under normal conditions. > > Some you probably want to avoid that are commonly sold, usually because > they really require higher lighting include Banana plants, sword plants > (although sometimes you get luck with these in normal tanks) and Cambomba > (Fanwort). > > Reagrds, > Patrick > > > Reply to sender<ptimlin@...?subject=Re%3A%20What%20kind%20of%20fish%20for%20a%2020%20gallon%20tank%3F>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20What%20kind%20of%20fish%20for%20a%2020%20gallon%20tank%3F>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxb2c4b3E4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjAxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzODIzMTI1Mg--?act=reply&messageNum=53601>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWhwNW1iBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODIzMTI1Mg--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53587;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZHI5MTQwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjAxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODIzMTI1MgR0cGNJZAM1MzU4Nw-->( > 12) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNHRzMnR1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzgyMzEyNTI-?o=6> > 9 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcTczdDFtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzODIzMTI1Mg--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53603	From: k chen	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Second that Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: ptimlin@... Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 18:39:33 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" wrote: > Patrick, what do you consider to be 'room temperature' fish and > what are some of the 'easy' plants you would recommend? As already mentioned by others here common guppies do very well and white cloud mountain minnows are also great. "Feeder" Guppies are an outstanding bargain since you can often get a dozen or whatever for a buck. You just need to be careful of diseases and parasites if you wanted to add them to a tank with other fish in it. But if they are the first and/or only fish going into a tank, then there is nothing to worry about since the new tank would also by default be the quarantine tank to make sure they are all healthy (if you wanted to add other fish or move the guppies to other tanks). I have a ten gallon in my bedroom that is lots of plants and nothing by a free breeding colony of guppies. Very active, pretty, curious fish. If you later add any other species of fish to the tank, they will often act as "breeding control" since they will likely eat the babies. White Clouds can tolerate down right cold tanks, so are a great choice even if a tank gets down to the upper 50s! And if there are no other fish in the tank, they usually will breed as well. Generally White Clouds are very cheap to buy. Rosy barbs are usually touted as tropical but actually moderate temperature fish and do very well at room temperatures. However they are kind of big fish as far as barbs go. The could work in a 20 gallon initially but might be better suited for a 30 gallon or larger. American Flag Fish are another that you see occasionally in stores these days. They nibble algae as well. As to plants, first and foremost the easy ones are simply put the ones that do well in YOUR tank. :) Everyone has different water, lighting, etc. so what is easy for one person is hard for the next. I know that I used to have some plants that did very well for me then after I moved to a new town, some of them didn't work anymore but others did. In general Java Fern, Java Moss, Hornwort (floating plant), Water Sprite (planted or floating), and Anacharis (especially for cool water tanks) tend to be easier plants that are usually not too expensive. Any of the Anubius variants are usually good since they grow in lower light but they also tend to be expensive and slow growing. Many of the Sags and Vals are worth a shot. And I have some Crypts growing in some of my tanks under normal conditions. Some you probably want to avoid that are commonly sold, usually because they really require higher lighting include Banana plants, sword plants (although sometimes you get luck with these in normal tanks) and Cambomba (Fanwort). Reagrds, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53604	From: rachell7	Date: 5/29/2012
Subject: Re: What kind of fish for a 20 gallon tank?

Thank you for all the information on the fish! I will have to keep those in mind. And I'm definitely going to take your advice re: the plants. I haven't been happy with the plastic plants and would prefer to have real ones. It'll be interesting to see what will grow. RaChell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" wrote: > > Patrick, what do you consider to be 'room temperature' fish and > > what are some of the 'easy' plants you would recommend? > > As already mentioned by others here common guppies do very well and white cloud mountain minnows are also great. > > "Feeder" Guppies are an outstanding bargain since you can often get a dozen or whatever for a buck. You just need to be careful of diseases and parasites if you wanted to add them to a tank with other fish in it. But if they are the first and/or only fish going into a tank, then there is nothing to worry about since the new tank would also by default be the quarantine tank to make sure they are all healthy (if you wanted to add other fish or move the guppies to other tanks). I have a ten gallon in my bedroom that is lots of plants and nothing by a free breeding colony of guppies. Very active, pretty, curious fish. If you later add any other species of fish to the tank, they will often act as "breeding control" since they will likely eat the babies. > > White Clouds can tolerate down right cold tanks, so are a great choice even if a tank gets down to the upper 50s! And if there are no other fish in the tank, they usually will breed as well. Generally White Clouds are very cheap to buy. > > Rosy barbs are usually touted as tropical but actually moderate temperature fish and do very well at room temperatures. However they are kind of big fish as far as barbs go. The could work in a 20 gallon initially but might be better suited for a 30 gallon or larger. > > American Flag Fish are another that you see occasionally in stores these days. They nibble algae as well. > > As to plants, first and foremost the easy ones are simply put the ones that do well in YOUR tank. :) Everyone has different water, lighting, etc. so what is easy for one person is hard for the next. I know that I used to have some plants that did very well for me then after I moved to a new town, some of them didn't work anymore but others did. > > In general Java Fern, Java Moss, Hornwort (floating plant), Water Sprite (planted or floating), and Anacharis (especially for cool water tanks) tend to be easier plants that are usually not too expensive. > > Any of the Anubius variants are usually good since they grow in lower light but they also tend to be expensive and slow growing. Many of the Sags and Vals are worth a shot. And I have some Crypts growing in some of my tanks under normal conditions. > > Some you probably want to avoid that are commonly sold, usually because they really require higher lighting include Banana plants, sword plants (although sometimes you get luck with these in normal tanks) and Cambomba (Fanwort). > > Reagrds, > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53605	From: kezzabeast	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Hi, I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. Any advice appreciated. Thanks Kez

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53606	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

If you don't want to get a single betta (which that bioOrb would be a great tank for a single male or single female betta), you could always look at getting some common or feeder guppies. Make sure you try to get all males if you don't want to have to worry about taking all their live babies to the fish store throughout the year, because guppies can be very prolific little guys/gals. Also your BioOrb is roughly just under 8 gallons, in case anyone is curious. Amber On 5/30/2012 3:05 PM, kezzabeast wrote: > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info > from them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would > love to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to > keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, > (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their > interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and > offering the fish good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53607	From: m davis	Date: 5/30/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will fight, sometimes to the death.  Just to start, and not put a lot of money in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable fish.,monica   ________________________________ From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? Hi, I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish  good life. Any advice appreciated. Thanks Kez ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53608	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer perhaps? If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my viewpoint & has been from day one. John*<o)))< * On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > fight, sometimes to the death. Just to start, and not put a lot of money > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > fish.,monica > > > ________________________________ > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > the fish good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53609	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I so agree John, it makes me sick to see "feeder" goldfish at carnival's with kids winning them and carrying them around in bags, the fate of most of these fish is not good. I went to a wedding once and at the reception they had a little bowl at every table with a goldfish in it, they were gasping for air, they probably had been put in these containers days before, I couldn't even look at them, it was terrible, and what the heck were they going to do with them after the reception, in infuriated me. A life is a life, cruelty is cruelty, .10 cent fish don't deserve to die a painful, agonizing death just because they are cheap. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer perhaps? If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my viewpoint & has been from day one. John*<o)))< * On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > fight, sometimes to the death. Just to start, and not put a lot of money > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > fish.,monica > > > ________________________________ > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 > and > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > the fish good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53610	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Kez, You've been given some great advice by Amber and John both, and I also have to agree with what John wrote about the feeder goldfish. A goldfish is a goldfish and there isn't any type/species that belongs in a small tank. There are other options for your tank, however, besides just feeder guppies. In 3 gallons I would not suggest you add more than 2 - 3 small fish total as your full population. With no heater in the tank, male feeder guppies/endlers are 1 option, but also white clouds, gold white clouds, and zebra danios could do just fine. (because of the size of the tank and types of fish I would suggest you stick to just 1 species of fish) If you can put a heater into this tank then there are other options such as rasbora het, emerald rasboras, or galaxy rasboras. You might want to look these fish up in Goggle so you can get some idea of their appearance. If any of these interest you and you'd like further information about them please just ask rather than relying on all of the conflicting info found rampant online. I'm sure as today goes on I will have other suggestions for you so will pop back in and add to the list. These are just the first that pop into my head right away that are suitable for such a small tank. Once you get your tank up and running and cycled be sure to decorate it well before you begin adding the fish. There are many here who can talk you through cycling and getting your tank ready for the fish. I apologize for not having the time to do so myself right now but life here has been extremely busy as of lately. Best of luck to you with your new tank. I will keep an eye on this thread and offer any help I can when I get a chance to stop in. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53611	From: m davis	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I love my "feeders"; one is 8" long and i call him Guts,  'cause all he likes to do is eat. I don't use guppies n  feeders to exxperiment on; they have their own tank,  or live in a community tank. I like the idea of  seeing them grow. i had a jack dempsy in a tank with other cichlids and he gutted two of the beautiful ones. u have to be careful of what kind of fish u put together, which is why i now have 4 active tanks and two i need to clean and restock. I have 4 large goldfish and 3 small ones in a 30 gallon tank, with a 30-50 gallon filter in it. i put a 14 day feeder pack in my tanks when i went to DC 3 weeks ago and me monsters got along just fine. So, research your fish; don't listen to the people  at the pet store, 'cause some of then don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. Goldfish, guppies, rosey reds make nice tanks, and bettas are good for single species tanks. But, be careful; i had a mean male who was ok with the female for several months, then he gnawed a monster hole in her side n killed her. i put 3 females in the tank and the male "disappeared";' cosmic justice, I guess good luck monica   ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer perhaps?   If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my viewpoint & has been from day one.   John*<o)))< * On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > fight, sometimes to the death.  Just to start, and not put a lot of money > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > fish.,monica > > > ________________________________ > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > the fish  good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53612	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: > I so agree John, it makes me sick to see "feeder" goldfish at carnival's > with kids winning them and carrying them around in bags, the fate of most of > these fish is not good.  I went to a wedding once and at the reception they > had a little bowl at every table with a goldfish in it, they were gasping > for air, they probably had been put in these containers days before, I > couldn't even look at them, it was terrible, and what the heck were they > going to do with them after the reception, in infuriated me.  A life is a > life, cruelty is cruelty, .10 cent fish don't deserve to die a painful, > agonizing death just because they are cheap. > > Cheryl from Seattle If you take your "A life is a life . . . " seriously then you would not even want to consume plants as they have to die for you to consume. The end point to that is foregone. I, therefore, differ with your stance that "A life is a life . . ." in that they are NOT all the same! Darald

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53613	From: kezzabeast	Date: 5/31/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Hi, I have a heater for the tank. I am going to set it up tomorrow, and I have been told to wait a couple of weeks for water and filter to settle and the PH to be right before getting the fish. I am thinking of going for neons. I understand I could have 5-8 of these in the bioOrb Is this right?? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Kez, > You've been given some great advice by Amber and John both, and I also have to agree with what John wrote about the feeder goldfish. A goldfish is a goldfish and there isn't any type/species that belongs in a small tank. > There are other options for your tank, however, besides just feeder guppies. In 3 gallons I would not suggest you add more than 2 - 3 small fish total as your full population. > > With no heater in the tank, male feeder guppies/endlers are 1 option, but also white clouds, gold white clouds, and zebra danios could do just fine. (because of the size of the tank and types of fish I would suggest you stick to just 1 species of fish) > If you can put a heater into this tank then there are other options such as rasbora het, emerald rasboras, or galaxy rasboras. You might want to look these fish up in Goggle so you can get some idea of their appearance. If any of these interest you and you'd like further information about them please just ask rather than relying on all of the conflicting info found rampant online. > I'm sure as today goes on I will have other suggestions for you so will pop back in and add to the list. These are just the first that pop into my head right away that are suitable for such a small tank. > > Once you get your tank up and running and cycled be sure to decorate it well before you begin adding the fish. There are many here who can talk you through cycling and getting your tank ready for the fish. I apologize for not having the time to do so myself right now but life here has been extremely busy as of lately. > > Best of luck to you with your new tank. I will keep an eye on this thread and offer any help I can when I get a chance to stop in. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Kez > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53614	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Well said John... If predators need smaller fish to eat that is one thing but to use and dispose of them needlessly is something different. Thanks for your thoughts! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use > 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any > suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice > from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I > think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish > are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer > perhaps? > > If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' > bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only > fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that > these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives > seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an > intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because > they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it > goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming > for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that > food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats > Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. > > I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the > needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same > pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The > monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the > creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the > cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I > work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my > viewpoint & has been from day one. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > > fight, sometimes to the death. Just to start, and not put a lot of money > > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > > fish.,monica > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > > > > Hi, > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > > them initially) > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > > to have some fish in the house. > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > > them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and > > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > > the fish good life. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Kez > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53615	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Male And female Bettas will often fight too.A single Male Will be happy in there,they live alone in nature anyway.Rene'. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will fight, sometimes to the death.  Just to start, and not put a lot of money in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable fish >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53616	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

One goldfish can grow to a foot,or more,within a couple of years.So one goldfish needs min.20gal.to grow in. 2 goldfish can do with 30gal. and 3 can do with 40 ,and so forth.Also you will need filters and all that stuf.Rene' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53617	From: reneap7040	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

A inch of fish for one gal.,of the small fish.A big kind,like a goldfish,needs min.20gal.Rene'. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@...> wrote: > > Hi, > I have a heater for the tank. I am going to set it up tomorrow, and I have been told to wait a couple of weeks for water and filter to settle and the PH to

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53618	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I thought this was a group set up to share fish info with others, not a group to talk trash about pet store employees!  Monica, I am a pet store employee with 14 years experience with exotic animals in wildlife settings, and have retired to a job in a pet store.  I am not as dumb as a box of rocks, and I do know my arse from a hole in the ground.  I understand that some stores hire young people to work in there pet areas, and because these are low paying jobs that require a lot of work, the turnover is great.  Often they do not know a lot about the fish they care for, but at our store I do know that we try our best.  Often when we give sound advice it is the customer that thinks they know everything, and they get angry, or refuse to listen to us, and we know the fish will not survive.  This is an extremely frustrating situation, and sometimes we just have to shut our mouth and let the "know-it-alls" have their way.  So you see-it is not always the pet store employees that are the bad guy. Denise   "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated."    Dian Fossey ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 1:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?   Well said John... If predators need smaller fish to eat that is one thing but to use and dispose of them needlessly is something different. Thanks for your thoughts! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use > 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any > suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice > from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I > think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish > are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer > perhaps? > > If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' > bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only > fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that > these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives > seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an > intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because > they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it > goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming > for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that > food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats > Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. > > I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the > needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same > pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The > monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the > creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the > cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I > work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my > viewpoint & has been from day one. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > > fight, sometimes to the death. Just to start, and not put a lot of money > > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > > fish.,monica > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > > > > Hi, > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > > them initially) > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > > to have some fish in the house. > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > > them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and > > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > > the fish good life. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Kez > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53619	From: m davis	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I apologize for the generalities. I have 2 fav stores in town, one employee has been there for years.  I just don't like walking into a pet store and seeing dozens of dead fish floating on top of the tank. md   ________________________________ From: Denise Monroe <kprdenise@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? I thought this was a group set up to share fish info with others, not a group to talk trash about pet store employees!  Monica, I am a pet store employee with 14 years experience with exotic animals in wildlife settings, and have retired to a job in a pet store.  I am not as dumb as a box of rocks, and I do know my arse from a hole in the ground.  I understand that some stores hire young people to work in there pet areas, and because these are low paying jobs that require a lot of work, the turnover is great.  Often they do not know a lot about the fish they care for, but at our store I do know that we try our best.  Often when we give sound advice it is the customer that thinks they know everything, and they get angry, or refuse to listen to us, and we know the fish will not survive.  This is an extremely frustrating situation, and sometimes we just have to shut our mouth and let the "know-it-alls" have their way.  So you see-it is not always the pet store employees that are the bad guy. Denise   "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated."       Dian Fossey ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 1:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?   Well said John... If predators need smaller fish to eat that is one thing but to use and dispose of them needlessly is something different. Thanks for your thoughts! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use > 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any > suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice > from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I > think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish > are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer > perhaps? > >  If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' > bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only > fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that > these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives > seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an > intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because > they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it > goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming > for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that > food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats > Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. > > I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the > needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same > pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The > monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the > creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the > cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I > work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my > viewpoint & has been from day one. > >  John*<o)))< > > * > On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > > fight, sometimes to the death.  Just to start, and not put a lot of money > > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > > fish.,monica > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > > > > Hi, > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > > them initially) > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > > to have some fish in the house. > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > > them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and > > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > > the fish  good life. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Kez > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53620	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/1/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

You have to do more than just 'wait' for the water. if you want it to be cycled before you add fish to the tank you'll have to get some plain ammonia (without surfactants/soaps), I don't know how much you have to add each day off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone can help you out. Amber On 5/31/2012 1:13 PM, kezzabeast wrote: > > Hi, > I have a heater for the tank. I am going to set it up tomorrow, and I > have been told to wait a couple of weeks for water and filter to > settle and the PH to be right before getting the fish. > > I am thinking of going for neons. I understand I could have 5-8 of > these in the bioOrb > Is this right?? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > Kez, > > You've been given some great advice by Amber and John both, and I > also have to agree with what John wrote about the feeder goldfish. A > goldfish is a goldfish and there isn't any type/species that belongs > in a small tank. > > There are other options for your tank, however, besides just feeder > guppies. In 3 gallons I would not suggest you add more than 2 - 3 > small fish total as your full population. > > > > With no heater in the tank, male feeder guppies/endlers are 1 > option, but also white clouds, gold white clouds, and zebra danios > could do just fine. (because of the size of the tank and types of fish > I would suggest you stick to just 1 species of fish) > > If you can put a heater into this tank then there are other options > such as rasbora het, emerald rasboras, or galaxy rasboras. You might > want to look these fish up in Goggle so you can get some idea of their > appearance. If any of these interest you and you'd like further > information about them please just ask rather than relying on all of > the conflicting info found rampant online. > > I'm sure as today goes on I will have other suggestions for you so > will pop back in and add to the list. These are just the first that > pop into my head right away that are suitable for such a small tank. > > > > Once you get your tank up and running and cycled be sure to decorate > it well before you begin adding the fish. There are many here who can > talk you through cycling and getting your tank ready for the fish. I > apologize for not having the time to do so myself right now but life > here has been extremely busy as of lately. > > > > Best of luck to you with your new tank. I will keep an eye on this > thread and offer any help I can when I get a chance to stop in. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon > bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, > false info from them initially) > > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i > would love to have some fish in the house. > > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard > to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, > (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their > interest. > > > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and > offering the fish good life. > > > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Kez > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53621	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Hi Kez, I'm sorry-I should have posted these links for you a couple of days ago after Dawn's message but I had been so busy it completely slipped my mind & Amber's post has just jogged my mind! The reason for cycling any new system be it tank or pond is to get a stable eco-system up & running for the fish to feel at home. By simply dropping fish into water their waste immediately starts to pollute the water & unless there is some biological process in place then the water will soon become polluted. There are 3 stages to cycling & is where filters come in-the fish waste collects in them & the filter is the main place that the cycling happens-think of the filter as a sewage farm. The first stage is the beneficial bacteria [good bugs] turning the ammonia into nitrite. Nitrite is also highly toxic but another set of good bugs turns the nitrite into far less harmful nitrate. This nitrate is still a problem if left unchecked & unfortunately there is no third set of good bugs to help us out so this is where the water changes come in-the more water you change the more dilution of the accumulated nitrate. Obviously the smaller system you have & also the more fish then the quicker it will get polluted meaning more frequent & larger water changes. Some people still use 'disposable' fish to do this cycling job but the levels of toxicity during the process are not only stressful for the fish involved but can also be permanently damaging-hence the use of raw ammonia [or fish food-see link] to simulate the fish waste. I have been told by unscrupulous stores in the past to simply set up a system & let it run for a week but of course without anything producing ammonia I could let it run for a year & it still wouldn't change anything. The process of cycling can take anything from a couple of weeks to over a month depending on so many different factors but daily testing with a good kit such as the API Master Test Kit will tell you how your eco-system is developing. Have a look at the links here: http://theaquariumwiki.com/The_Art_of_Fishless_Cycling http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm The graph in the last link clearly illustrates how firstly the ammonia & then secondly the nitrite [NO2] will spike & then fall giving rise to a healthy nitrate [NO3] reading. I'd also mention that although the second link is from a Cichlid website the information in it is exactly the same for all types of fish. Sounds all very technical I know but it really isn't that hard once you get into it & we are all here to help you if you have any problems-let us know what you think. John*<o)))< * On 2 June 2012 03:25, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > You have to do more than just 'wait' for the water. if you want it to be > cycled before you add fish to the tank you'll have to get some plain > ammonia (without surfactants/soaps), I don't know how much you have to > add each day off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone can help you out. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53622	From: kezzabeast	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Sorry, when I said 'wait' for the water I meant cycling etc. I may need further advice for this. I plan to start Monday once I have a test kit. When I am home I will look through everything my friend gave me so I can establish what else I require. Please understand I am a complete novice, so may ask a lot of questions, some of which you may think are obvious. I have looked online, but often get conflicting info, so would rather discuss with people . Thanks for all your help so far. Kez --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Kez, > > I'm sorry-I should have posted these links for you a couple of days ago > after Dawn's message but I had been so busy it completely slipped my mind & > Amber's post has just jogged my mind! The reason for cycling any new system > be it tank or pond is to get a stable eco-system up & running for the fish > to feel at home. By simply dropping fish into water their waste immediately > starts to pollute the water & unless there is some biological process in > place then the water will soon become polluted. There are 3 stages to > cycling & is where filters come in-the fish waste collects in them & the > filter is the main place that the cycling happens-think of the filter as a > sewage farm. The first stage is the beneficial bacteria [good bugs] turning > the ammonia into nitrite. Nitrite is also highly toxic but another set of > good bugs turns the nitrite into far less harmful nitrate. This nitrate is > still a problem if left unchecked & unfortunately there is no third set of > good bugs to help us out so this is where the water changes come in-the > more water you change the more dilution of the accumulated nitrate. > Obviously the smaller system you have & also the more fish then the quicker > it will get polluted meaning more frequent & larger water changes. > > Some people still use 'disposable' fish to do this cycling job but the > levels of toxicity during the process are not only stressful for the fish > involved but can also be permanently damaging-hence the use of raw ammonia > [or fish food-see link] to simulate the fish waste. I have been told by > unscrupulous stores in the past to simply set up a system & let it run for > a week but of course without anything producing ammonia I could let it run > for a year & it still wouldn't change anything. The process of cycling can > take anything from a couple of weeks to over a month depending on so many > different factors but daily testing with a good kit such as the API Master > Test Kit will tell you how your eco-system is developing. Have a look at > the links here: > http://theaquariumwiki.com/The_Art_of_Fishless_Cycling > http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm > The graph in the last link clearly illustrates how firstly the ammonia & > then secondly the nitrite [NO2] will spike & then fall giving rise to a > healthy nitrate [NO3] reading. I'd also mention that although the second > link is from a Cichlid website the information in it is exactly the same > for all types of fish. > > Sounds all very technical I know but it really isn't that hard once you get > into it & we are all here to help you if you have any problems-let us know > what you think. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 2 June 2012 03:25, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > You have to do more than just 'wait' for the water. if you want it to be > > cycled before you add fish to the tank you'll have to get some plain > > ammonia (without surfactants/soaps), I don't know how much you have to > > add each day off the top of my head, but I'm sure someone can help you out. > > > > Amber > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53623	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I am really surprised and disturbed by the advice given in this thread where goldfish are concerned. (with the exception of John, who I know has goldfish and learned the hard way over the yrs about putting them into small tanks) 20 gallons is NOT ok for a goldfish, nor is 30 gallons. If we are talking about humane treatment of the fish then their adult size, rapid growth rate, messy eating habits, and high levels of waste need to all be taken into account. I know I have mentioned my Freddy before in this group but for those who are new or may have forgotten, please let me reiterate for you. Freddy was an oranda/ryukin mix fancy goldfish. I rescued him from a 37 gallon tank when he was about 3 yrs old, alongside of another ryukin fancy goldfish, also about 3 yrs old. The other fish was covered in tumors to a point it could barely swim and it was blind. Both were severely stunted and Freddy had a bad bacterial infection. This happened because they were forced to live in a small tank for years without the proper care or food. I didn't expect either fish to live more than a day or 2. The one with the tumors lasted just over a year and all of the tumors went away, but it required hand feeding so it could find the food. All I did for it was give it a larger tank and plenty of clean water and proper food. The internal damage I found when it died was enough to make anyone sick. Freddy lived for over 6 yrs and once in a proper size tank began to grow again, reaching full adult size for a fancy goldfish... 9 inches long and as big around as a softball. Anything less than a 120 gallon tank by that point was too small and he would get sick quickly, and eventually he outgrew that, too. Eating 8 - 10 pellets/day and having anacharis in the tank as well as duck weed to munch on and to help with water quality, and that 120 gallon tank with 2 filters still required daily water changes to keep him healthy. The point is, goldfish get large and are one of the dirtiest fish out there. They are one of the hardest fish to care for because they require so much space and so much maintenance. Confining even a single goldfish to a 20 or 30 gallon tank is a death sentence filled with suffering. I'm sorry if my post offends anyone but to be quite blunt about it, the info being posted here about goldfish offends and upsets me. The average lifespan of a fancy goldfish is 25 yrs, for a comet it is 35 yrs... so before anyone jumps in to insist I am wrong because they kept a goldfish in a small tank and it lived 3 - 5 yrs... keep in mind that only means another baby fish was killed needlessly. There was a time many yrs ago when this was common practice, as was goldfish in bowls. I like to think we in the fish world have learned something since then and will stop promoting such cruelty. Everyone would have a fit if someone suggested raising an oscar to adulthood in a 20 or 30 gallon tank. Comet goldfish get to the same size range as an oscar and are equally as dirty, and fancy goldfish, by the time you count in the fins, get almost as large and are still equally as dirty. Sorry for the rant but I couldn't let this go. Spreading that kind of misinformation around only hurts more innocent fish and I am just sick of watching it happen. Lastly, I want to thank Denise for standing up for those pet store employees who DO know what they are talking about and doing. While they are getting to be a rarity, they do still exist. Anyone who has the ability to visit Big Al's would get a treat to work with those employees. I also worked for a store where education was constant and a job requirement and most of the staff held college degrees along with many years of experience in the aquatic industry. Aquatic biologist, vet tech, botanist, etc. were all part of our staff. Seminars and school were a weekly requirement just to keep our jobs. Giving out bad information meant getting fired. It was a thankless job and the reason we were all there is because we cared so deeply about the animals. Most of the problems were the customers who came in asking for "no maintenance fish" or wanting to put "nemo in a bowl" or use angelfish as feeders for their pet piranha. Customers often neglect to ask questions and more often argue with the staff about who is right vs who is wrong because they don't like to hear the honest truth or be told that something can't/won't work. I could tell horror stories that would make people's heads spin to hear them... like the lady who bought 10 cardinal tetras every week for her 10 gallon tank, insisting that "any idiot knows they only live a week and then you buy more". Please don't generalize all pet store employees as bad, they are not all bad. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "reneap7040" <begotten65@...> wrote: > > One goldfish can grow to a foot,or more,within a couple of years.So one goldfish needs min.20gal.to grow in. > 2 goldfish can do with 30gal. and 3 can do with 40 ,and so forth.Also you will need filters and all that stuf.Rene' > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" <kagedkez@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Kez > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53624	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I've always found the best stores to get advice are the small independents who usually keep fish themselves & so understand the problems involved. The worst places are the general pet stores that sell everything & the big box stores like out Pets At Home or PetCo in the US where the turnover of staff is large & that coupled with the low wages make for some terrible advice which is merely half-truths & myths passed down from employee to employee. However, there are exceptions to every rule & I think Kez went to an aquatic specialist in her home town & that is why she is here now! Also there is a girl who works in my local Pets At Home & she knows loads of stuff about aquatic systems. Finally-Kez, please don't worry about asking the 'obvious' questions, they are only obvious once you know the answer & that is what we are here for. John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53625	From: m davis	Date: 6/2/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I agree with you about the  independents; one of the best sources I have is a guy who now manages the fish dept in a locally owned pet store--a job he got to finance his fish addiction. Monica   ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? I've always found the best stores to get advice are the small independents who usually keep fish themselves & so understand the problems involved. The worst places are the general pet stores that sell everything & the big box stores like out Pets At Home or PetCo in the US where the turnover of staff is large & that coupled with the low wages make for some terrible advice which is merely half-truths & myths passed down from employee to employee. However, there are exceptions to every rule & I think Kez went to an aquatic specialist in her home town & that is why she is here now! Also there is a girl who works in my local Pets At Home & she knows loads of stuff about aquatic systems. Finally-Kez, please don't worry about asking the 'obvious' questions, they are only obvious once you know the answer & that is what we are here for.   John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53626	From: weantdrive	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions

This is a recent development the Pleco is the only inhabitant of a 20 long aquarium. It is about 10 inches long. Every week or less I have to change the water. The water appears to be fouled with urine, it has a yellow cast. There is some solid matter also not more that I would expect. I have 2 HOB's filtering the water. There is a small piece of wood in the aquarium that has been there for years. Again suggestions??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53627	From: rachell7	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

You know, I was going to ask where the members of this group get their fish. The local independent store here went out of business several years ago or else I would go there. There are a couple of Petsmarts nearby (for me nearby means 30 to 45 miles away) but both have dirty tanks and dead fish. I did find a Petco where I have been buying my fish and they seem to be pretty knowledgeable and so far the biggest threat to my fish has been me, I tend to over feed. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > I agree with you about the  independents; one of the best sources I have is a guy who now manages the fish dept in a locally owned pet store--a job he got to finance his fish addiction. Monica >   > > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? > > I've always found the best stores to get advice are the small independents > who usually keep fish themselves & so understand the problems involved. The > worst places are the general pet stores that sell everything & the big box > stores like out Pets At Home or PetCo in the US where the turnover of staff > is large & that coupled with the low wages make for some terrible advice > which is merely half-truths & myths passed down from employee to employee. > However, there are exceptions to every rule & I think Kez went to an > aquatic specialist in her home town & that is why she is here now! Also > there is a girl who works in my local Pets At Home & she knows loads of > stuff about aquatic systems. > > Finally-Kez, please don't worry about asking the 'obvious' questions, they > are only obvious once you know the answer & that is what we are here for. > >   John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53628	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: A very basic aquarium question

Hi, I am new to aquariums. I have a 6 gallon tank with a half moon betta fish. So today I checked his water before I did my 25% water change. Everything was fine except ammonia. It was a bit high. So I put a Microlift product to lower the ammonia in the aquarium. Then I vacuumed the gravel and pumped out 25%v of the water. Then, I added new water. It had been sitting out for three days and I added a couple of drops of Prime yesterday and put it in his tank today. When should I do an ammonia test again? Did I make a mistake and should only test the water after I put in the new water? Thank you Yechezkel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53629	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions

I’d rehome him since a 10” pleco is too big for a 20Long. In the meantime, do larger water changes. Weekly would be the minimum, are you already doing 50% weekly? What are test results for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of weantdrive Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 1:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions This is a recent development the Pleco is the only inhabitant of a 20 long aquarium. It is about 10 inches long. Every week or less I have to change the water. The water appears to be fouled with urine, it has a yellow cast. There is some solid matter also not more that I would expect. I have 2 HOB's filtering the water. There is a small piece of wood in the aquarium that has been there for years. Again suggestions?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53630	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question

You would test the ammonia immediately after the water change to see if you changed enough. If you did not change enough water (still have ammonia) you could immediately change more. Why do you have ammonia? Is the tank not cycled? You should not need a product to lower ammonia. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of yehezkal18 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A very basic aquarium question Hi, I am new to aquariums. I have a 6 gallon tank with a half moon betta fish. So today I checked his water before I did my 25% water change. Everything was fine except ammonia. It was a bit high. So I put a Microlift product to lower the ammonia in the aquarium. Then I vacuumed the gravel and pumped out 25%v of the water. Then, I added new water. It had been sitting out for three days and I added a couple of drops of Prime yesterday and put it in his tank today. When should I do an ammonia test again? Did I make a mistake and should only test the water after I put in the new water? Thank you Yechezkel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53631	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

I guess it would depend on where you are and what kind of fish you keep. I would not buy fish at Petco. I buy mostly online and occasionally from local breeders or a particular LFS which is 45 miles away. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rachell7 Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? You know, I was going to ask where the members of this group get their fish. The local independent store here went out of business several years ago or else I would go there. There are a couple of Petsmarts nearby (for me nearby means 30 to 45 miles away) but both have dirty tanks and dead fish. I did find a Petco where I have been buying my fish and they seem to be pretty knowledgeable and so far the biggest threat to my fish has been me, I tend to over feed. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > I agree with you about the independents; one of the best sources I have is a guy who now manages the fish dept in a locally owned pet store--a job he got to finance his fish addiction. Monica > > > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? > > I've always found the best stores to get advice are the small independents > who usually keep fish themselves & so understand the problems involved. The > worst places are the general pet stores that sell everything & the big box > stores like out Pets At Home or PetCo in the US where the turnover of staff > is large & that coupled with the low wages make for some terrible advice > which is merely half-truths & myths passed down from employee to employee. > However, there are exceptions to every rule & I think Kez went to an > aquatic specialist in her home town & that is why she is here now! Also > there is a girl who works in my local Pets At Home & she knows loads of > stuff about aquatic systems. > > Finally-Kez, please don't worry about asking the 'obvious' questions, they > are only obvious once you know the answer & that is what we are here for. > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53632	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question

Hi Yechezkel, I agree with Donna, if your tank is still showing ammonia then either change a little more water-perhaps 33% &/or step-up your water changes a little. Dilution of any toxins is the key-personally I hate all those products that raise or lower your water parameters because they all have a trade-off despite the manufacturer's claims & they are all very expensive. The less chemicals we can add to our water then the better it is for the fish. As you are adding a conditioner to your water then you don't need to let it stand for 3 days, only a few hours until it has reached room temperature. You would only need to let it stand 24 hours to off-gas the chlorine if you were not adding a conditioner. However-if your water company uses chloramine instead of chlorine then a conditioner is essential because that stuff takes weeks to off-gas naturally. When you age your water do you have a pump running in the tub? If not then it can be worse than using it immediately because the water can become stale if it is not moving. John*<o)))<* On 3 June 2012 21:42, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > You would test the ammonia immediately after the water change to see if you > changed enough. > > If you did not change enough water (still have ammonia) you could > immediately change more. > > Why do you have ammonia? Is the tank not cycled? You should not need a > product to lower ammonia. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of yehezkal18 > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A very basic aquarium question > > > Hi, I am new to aquariums. I have a 6 gallon tank with a half moon betta > fish. > > So today I checked his water before I did my 25% water change. > > Everything was fine except ammonia. It was a bit high. > > So I put a Microlift product to lower the ammonia in the aquarium. > > Then I vacuumed the gravel and pumped out 25%v of the water. > > Then, I added new water. It had been sitting out for three days and I added > a couple of drops of Prime yesterday and put it in his tank today. > > When should I do an ammonia test again? > > Did I make a mistake and should only test the water after I put in the > new water? > > Thank you > > Yechezkel > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<djransome@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20A%20very%20basic%20aquarium%20question>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20A%20very%20basic%20aquarium%20question>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcDVndXRxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjMwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjE2MA--?act=reply&messageNum=53630>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJldmp2aDV1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjE2MA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53628;_ylc=X3oDMTM2Z2tycHE5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjMwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjE2MAR0cGNJZAM1MzYyOA-->( > 2) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMGdobGs5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3NTYxNjA-?o=6> > 9 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ29kdTR0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjE2MA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53633	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions

. . . . & are you using a gravel vac to remove the old water? It sounds like there is a fair amount of debris in his tank. I don't think the yellow cast is urine-perhaps the tannins in the wood are leaching out? John*<o)))< * On 3 June 2012 21:41, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I�d rehome him since a 10� pleco is too big for a 20Long. In the meantime, > do larger water changes. Weekly would be the minimum, are you already doing > 50% weekly? What are test results for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of weantdrive > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 1:01 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions > > > This is a recent development the Pleco is the only inhabitant of a 20 long > aquarium. It is about 10 inches long. > Every week or less I have to change the water. The water appears to be > fouled with urine, it has a yellow cast. There is some solid matter also > not > more that I would expect. > I have 2 HOB's filtering the water. There is a small piece of wood in the > aquarium that has been there for years. > Again suggestions?? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<djransome@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Sailfin%20Pleco%20fouling%20aquarium%2E%20%20Suggestions>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Sailfin%20Pleco%20fouling%20aquarium%2E%20%20Suggestions>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNTg2NmI0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjI5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjA2OQ--?act=reply&messageNum=53629>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWE1MzNwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjA2OQ--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53626;_ylc=X3oDMTM2bG03amtwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNjI5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjA2OQR0cGNJZAM1MzYyNg-->( > 2) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTQ0NmlvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMzg3NTYwNjk-?o=6> > 9 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYTQxaG5nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMzODc1NjA2OQ--> > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53634	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Hi Rachell, That's a shame you lost your LFS so might be an idea to have a Google & see if there are any aquatic clubs or societies in your vicinity. If so then they may well have some quality stock for sale or at least may know of local amateur breeders that have. Overfeeding is certainly a problem, I find it hard not to walk past my tank when those cute little faces are constantly begging at me but you have to be strong & say no sometimes for their own good! Overfeeding is one of the commonest causes of poor water quality. John*<o)))< * On 3 June 2012 21:44, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I guess it would depend on where you are and what kind of fish you keep. I > would not buy fish at Petco. I buy mostly online and occasionally from > local breeders or a particular LFS which is 45 miles away. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of rachell7 > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > You know, I was going to ask where the members of this group get their > fish. > The local independent store here went out of business several years ago or > else I would go there. There are a couple of Petsmarts nearby (for me > nearby > means 30 to 45 miles away) but both have dirty tanks and dead fish. I did > find a Petco where I have been buying my fish and they seem to be pretty > knowledgeable and so far the biggest threat to my fish has been me, I tend > to over feed. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53635	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Aquarium societies. I used to attend three a month but am down to once a month now :) Local fish shops. Or not so local if I come across them in my travels. Aquarium society conventions. The American Cichlid Association has a yearly convention. I try to attend every year. They have an awesome auction and it is hard not to come home with bags and bags of fish. Aquabid or other online sellers. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: rachell7 <rachell7@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 3, 2012 12:15 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? You know, I was going to ask where the members of this group get their fish. The local independent store here went out of business several years ago or else I would go there. There are a couple of Petsmarts nearby (for me nearby means 30 to 45 miles away) but both have dirty tanks and dead fish. I did find a Petco where I have been buying my fish and they seem to be pretty knowledgeable and so far the biggest threat to my fish has been me, I tend to over feed. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > I agree with you about the  independents; one of the best sources I have is a guy who now manages the fish dept in a locally owned pet store--a job he got to finance his fish addiction. Monica >   > > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? > > I've always found the best stores to get advice are the small independents > who usually keep fish themselves & so understand the problems involved. The > worst places are the general pet stores that sell everything & the big box > stores like out Pets At Home or PetCo in the US where the turnover of staff > is large & that coupled with the low wages make for some terrible advice > which is merely half-truths & myths passed down from employee to employee. > However, there are exceptions to every rule & I think Kez went to an > aquatic specialist in her home town & that is why she is here now! Also > there is a girl who works in my local Pets At Home & she knows loads of > stuff about aquatic systems. > > Finally-Kez, please don't worry about asking the 'obvious' questions, they > are only obvious once you know the answer & that is what we are here for. > >   John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53636	From: k chen	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions

Try carbon but need to be careful as once carbon is fully absorbed of toxins, it will release the toxin back into water. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: weant1@... Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:00:46 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Sailfin Pleco fouling aquarium. Suggestions This is a recent development the Pleco is the only inhabitant of a 20 long aquarium. It is about 10 inches long. Every week or less I have to change the water. The water appears to be fouled with urine, it has a yellow cast. There is some solid matter also not more that I would expect. I have 2 HOB's filtering the water. There is a small piece of wood in the aquarium that has been there for years. Again suggestions?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53637	From: k chen	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: A very basic aquarium question

My personal opinion is you are doing too much, don't mess with water parameter too much and too often. For Betta, don't need to do 25% water change, 5-10% is good enough. Is best way to condition water is to put aquarium bacteria and enzymes regularly which helps to stabilize water parameters. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: yehezkal18@... Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:34:49 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] A very basic aquarium question Hi, I am new to aquariums. I have a 6 gallon tank with a half moon betta fish. So today I checked his water before I did my 25% water change. Everything was fine except ammonia. It was a bit high. So I put a Microlift product to lower the ammonia in the aquarium. Then I vacuumed the gravel and pumped out 25%v of the water. Then, I added new water. It had been sitting out for three days and I added a couple of drops of Prime yesterday and put it in his tank today. When should I do an ammonia test again? Did I make a mistake and should only test the water after I put in the new water? Thank you Yechezkel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53638	From: rachell7	Date: 6/4/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Thank you for the suggestion! I never thought about trying to find any clubs in my area. And yes, it's hard not to over feed the fish! Thanks again! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Rachell, > > That's a shame you lost your LFS so might be an idea to have a Google & > see if there are any aquatic clubs or societies in your vicinity. If so > then they may well have some quality stock for sale or at least may know of > local amateur breeders that have. > > Overfeeding is certainly a problem, I find it hard not to walk past my tank > when those cute little faces are constantly begging at me but you have to > be strong & say no sometimes for their own good! Overfeeding is one of the > commonest causes of poor water quality. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 3 June 2012 21:44, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I guess it would depend on where you are and what kind of fish you keep. I > > would not buy fish at Petco. I buy mostly online and occasionally from > > local breeders or a particular LFS which is 45 miles away. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of rachell7 > > Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 2:57 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > > > > You know, I was going to ask where the members of this group get their > > fish. > > The local independent store here went out of business several years ago or > > else I would go there. There are a couple of Petsmarts nearby (for me > > nearby > > means 30 to 45 miles away) but both have dirty tanks and dead fish. I did > > find a Petco where I have been buying my fish and they seem to be pretty > > knowledgeable and so far the biggest threat to my fish has been me, I tend > > to over feed. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2012
Subject: RO water vs Bottled water

Hi Everyone, On another fish forum someone asked what is the difference between RO water & bottled water which I thought was an interesting point so can anyone explain please? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53640	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

RO water has all minerals removed during the reverse osmosis process. Bottled water has all the natural minerals still present. So for example, bottled water will have calcium and RO water will have none. RO water can be mixed with bottled water or tap water to dilute the calcium and lower pH (KH) for fish that like softer water. Straight RO water cannot be used with fish, whereas bottled water can. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] RO water vs Bottled water Hi Everyone, On another fish forum someone asked what is the difference between RO water & bottled water which I thought was an interesting point so can anyone explain please? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53641	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

I have noticed there is some discrepancy in the info about RO water that I'd like to help clarify. RO water is not completely "pure"... that would be DI water, there is a difference. Deionized water is pure like distilled water, without any mineral content. RO water, on the other hand, is purer than tap water but not as pure as DI water. Depending on the amount of filtration and how often the cartridges are changed, RO water can be crappy quality just like tap water can be. (which is why anyone using RO water bought at a store should always test it before using it, since the purity of it is dependent on the maintenance of the RO unit and most grocery stores and even pet stores don't change those cartridges near often enough) RO water is usually safe to drink and safe to use for fish, however DI and distilled water are not safe for either unless they are mixed with tap water. When you talk about "bottled water" this should be more specific, as that could mean RO water, spring water, distilled water, purified water, etc. There are a lot of options in way of "bottled water" and each one is a bit different. John, if RO water were completely pure without mineral content then the water coming from your RO system would test 0 down the board for nitrates, kh, gh, etc. and you already know that isn't the case. If you were to run those same tests on DI or distilled water, you would see the difference. You might want to pick up a small bottle of distilled water at the store and run those tests just so you can see for yourself the big difference between them. Straight RO water is not safe for all species of fish and tends to need some kind of supplement to make it safe, such as adding tap water to it. This can only be determined by testing the RO water and knowing what species of fish you are planning to use it for, since different species have different requirements. Discus would need far different water chemistry than African cichlids, etc. You would want RO water for a discus tank but never for an African cichlid tank because the RO unit would drop the mineral content of the water too far to be safe for the Africans. The other thing to test for (which a lot of people don't) is TDS. (total dissolved solids) This, too, will show differences from RO to DI or distilled water. So how safe RO water is and how much tap water is needed to be mixed into it can only be determined by testing it and knowing what your specific fish require. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > On another fish forum someone asked what is the difference between RO > water & bottled water which I thought was an interesting point so can > anyone explain please? > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53642	From: Patrick	Date: 6/7/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > On another fish forum someone asked what is the difference between > RO water & bottled water which I thought was an interesting point > so can anyone explain please? Hi John, So if you are talking about pure water (water with all or most of the non-water bits removed there are ways to make this sort of water. RO = reverse osmosis and Distilling being two more common ways. Then there are waters that are filtered or perhaps run through carbon or past UV light. However RO water can be put in bottles, Distilled water is often sold in jugs at the grocery store, you can put mineral water in bottles, tap water in bottles, "filtered" water, spring water, glacier water, etc. My point being that "bottled water" only implies some type of water has been placed in bottles. Which tells you nothing about what the water is made up. So to answer your question you would have to be more specific as to which type of water you are referring when you talk about "bottled" water. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53643	From: William J. Scott	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

This question has been asked for years and one would have to know the makeup of the RO unit. How often do they change out the membrame & how much RO water does it put out & how big is the holding tank, All factors to know. If someone buys 5 gallons of RO water & someone else comes in right away & buys 5 gallons also, are they really getting RO water? Is the unit just an RO unit OR is it an RO + DI unit. I have a 6 stage unit which gives me the water I need for the fish I keep. (Apisto's, Killies & Nannochromis species). It makes 50 gallons every 24 hours & I have that unit running in to a 33 gal. trash can with a float valve. If anyone wants a diagram, Email me & I will send it to you....Bill Scott If you are really concerned about this, I would suggest you buy your own RO unit. They are easy to install & only cost around $150.00 USD. I also have a RaynePure Plus® Reverse Osmosis System under my sink which gives me an additional 50 gallons.but it only has a 4 gal., tank. It was a lot more cash, but you can find a unit at most larger pet shops. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53644	From: bill 1433	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

Hi Bill!   Another bill on this end.  May I ask the "Y" for the RO? Problems here with well-water.  I have heard of a less expensive unit by API which to the faucet.   bill in pa --- On Fri, 6/8/12, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: RO water vs Bottled water To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 8:28 AM This question has been asked for years and one would have to know the makeup of the RO unit. How often do they  change out the membrame & how much RO water does it put out & how big is the holding tank, All factors to know. If someone buys  5 gallons of RO water & someone else comes in right away & buys 5 gallons also, are they really getting RO water? Is the unit just an RO unit OR is it an RO + DI unit. I have a 6 stage unit which gives me the water I need for the fish I keep. (Apisto's, Killies & Nannochromis species). It makes 50 gallons every 24 hours & I have that unit running in to a 33 gal. trash can with a float valve. If anyone wants a diagram, Email me & I will send it to you....Bill Scott If you are really concerned about this, I would suggest you buy your own RO unit. They are easy to install &  only cost around $150.00 USD. I also have a RaynePure Plus® Reverse Osmosis System under my sink which gives me an additional 50 gallons.but it only has a 4 gal., tank. It was a lot more cash, but you can find a unit at most larger pet shops. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53645	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

I see that this subject is a lot deeper than I thought & as I am a novice to the world of RO water I will give you some background details about my system & my reasons for installing an RO unit. I have a 100 UK gallon tank with an additionel 20 gallons in the sump & filtration system. I have 4 large Goldfish that make a lot of waste & have had some problems related to water quality. In the past I was getting a nitrate reading of below 20 but for the last year or so the nitrate at the tap has been 40 & has only recently started to move back towards 30. This despite the fact that my local water company claims the NO3 in the supplied household water is only 14.59! The reason for this is we have had a 2 years drought in the UK & the lowered reserviors are dragging out lots of nitrate. Obviously however large a water change I do at 40 I cannot hope to lower the nitrate & with the possibility of long-term health problems for my fish & with some fantastic help & support from Dawn I have taken steps to improve the situation permanently & usign RO water appears to be the way forward. My unit is an AQRO3, Aquatique 50, 3 stage system at the bottom of the page here: http://www.aquacure.co.uk/cgi-bin/scribe?showinfo=pp009 The instruction leaflet suggests repalcing the pre-filter inserts every year & the membrane every 6 month which I intend to do. The manufacturer's claim that this unit will produce 50 gallons of RO water every 24 hours is completely subjective because it is dependant on many things such as temperature, water supply quality & even how fast the system is fed. Obviously if the valve is setf ully open then a much larger amount of water will be supplied evvery 24 hours but the trade-off is that the slower it is supplied then the more impurities will be taken out by the unit. Added to that the unit is an American system so 50 US gallons translates to around 40 in the UK. I am currently getting around 6 gallons every 24 hours which is fine for my needs as I have done some research. This unit cost me �90 which is around $140 I think. I tested varying amounts of mixed tap, tank & RO water to find the optimum amount of RO water I would need to lower my nitrate to an acceptable & safe level for the fish while also making sure I was keeping enough of the beneficial trace-elements in the tap water & my conclusions were a mixture of 25%RO water to 75% tap. That gave me a nitrate reading of 20 which is a workable solution but this is still theoretical as I have only started to add in small amounts of RO water to my water change regime over the last week. I normally change 25% of my water every 3 days & that equates to 30 gallons. To get the required 25/75 mix I am going to build up until I am adding 7.5 gallons of RO water to my 30 gallon water change tub so I will have 22.5 gallons out of the tap. I age this water overnight prior to a water change & I am gradually adding more & more of hte RO water until I reach the 7.5 gallon stage & this will take me about a month as I am doing it gradually. Oh yes, my next purchase is going to be a TDS meter! As I am still very much a novice with this RO business I would welcome any observations or suggestions from anyone. John*<o)))< * On 8 June 2012 16:34, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Bill! > > Another bill on this end. May I ask the "Y" for the RO? > Problems here with well-water. I have heard of a less expensive > unit by API which to the faucet. > > bill in pa > > --- On Fri, 6/8/12, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: > > From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: RO water vs Bottled water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 8:28 AM > > > This question has been asked for years and one would have to know the > makeup > of the RO unit. > How often do they change out the membrame & how much RO water does it put > out & how big is the holding tank, All factors to know. > If someone buys 5 gallons of RO water & someone else comes in right away & > buys 5 gallons also, are they really getting RO water? > Is the unit just an RO unit OR is it an RO + DI unit. > I have a 6 stage unit which gives me the water I need for the fish I keep. > (Apisto's, Killies & Nannochromis species). It makes 50 gallons every 24 > hours & I have that unit running in > to a 33 gal. trash can with a float valve. If anyone wants a diagram, Email > me & I will send it to you....Bill Scott > If you are really concerned about this, I would suggest you buy your own RO > unit. They are easy to install & only cost around $150.00 USD. > I also have a RaynePure Plus� Reverse Osmosis System under my sink which > gives me an additional 50 gallons.but it only has a 4 gal., tank. It was a > lot more cash, but > you can find a unit at most larger pet shops. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53646	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

I'd use plants instead. Within one week of planting Vallisneria I had zero nitrates. That also is not good when you have plants, but they sure are effective. If your fish eat plants, you can plant in a refugium. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: RO water vs Bottled water I see that this subject is a lot deeper than I thought & as I am a novice to the world of RO water I will give you some background details about my system & my reasons for installing an RO unit. I have a 100 UK gallon tank with an additionel 20 gallons in the sump & filtration system. I have 4 large Goldfish that make a lot of waste & have had some problems related to water quality. In the past I was getting a nitrate reading of below 20 but for the last year or so the nitrate at the tap has been 40 & has only recently started to move back towards 30. This despite the fact that my local water company claims the NO3 in the supplied household water is only 14.59! The reason for this is we have had a 2 years drought in the UK & the lowered reserviors are dragging out lots of nitrate. Obviously however large a water change I do at 40 I cannot hope to lower the nitrate & with the possibility of long-term health problems for my fish & with some fantastic help & support from Dawn I have taken steps to improve the situation permanently & usign RO water appears to be the way forward. My unit is an AQRO3, Aquatique 50, 3 stage system at the bottom of the page here: http://www.aquacure.co.uk/cgi-bin/scribe?showinfo=pp009 The instruction leaflet suggests repalcing the pre-filter inserts every year & the membrane every 6 month which I intend to do. The manufacturer's claim that this unit will produce 50 gallons of RO water every 24 hours is completely subjective because it is dependant on many things such as temperature, water supply quality & even how fast the system is fed. Obviously if the valve is setf ully open then a much larger amount of water will be supplied evvery 24 hours but the trade-off is that the slower it is supplied then the more impurities will be taken out by the unit. Added to that the unit is an American system so 50 US gallons translates to around 40 in the UK. I am currently getting around 6 gallons every 24 hours which is fine for my needs as I have done some research. This unit cost me £90 which is around $140 I think. I tested varying amounts of mixed tap, tank & RO water to find the optimum amount of RO water I would need to lower my nitrate to an acceptable & safe level for the fish while also making sure I was keeping enough of the beneficial trace-elements in the tap water & my conclusions were a mixture of 25%RO water to 75% tap. That gave me a nitrate reading of 20 which is a workable solution but this is still theoretical as I have only started to add in small amounts of RO water to my water change regime over the last week. I normally change 25% of my water every 3 days & that equates to 30 gallons. To get the required 25/75 mix I am going to build up until I am adding 7.5 gallons of RO water to my 30 gallon water change tub so I will have 22.5 gallons out of the tap. I age this water overnight prior to a water change & I am gradually adding more & more of hte RO water until I reach the 7.5 gallon stage & this will take me about a month as I am doing it gradually. Oh yes, my next purchase is going to be a TDS meter! As I am still very much a novice with this RO business I would welcome any observations or suggestions from anyone. John*<o)))< * On 8 June 2012 16:34, bill 1433 <warrenprint@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Bill! > > Another bill on this end. May I ask the "Y" for the RO? > Problems here with well-water. I have heard of a less expensive > unit by API which to the faucet. > > bill in pa > > --- On Fri, 6/8/12, William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> wrote: > > From: William J. Scott <w.j.scott@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: RO water vs Bottled water > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 8:28 AM > > > This question has been asked for years and one would have to know the > makeup > of the RO unit. > How often do they change out the membrame & how much RO water does it put > out & how big is the holding tank, All factors to know. > If someone buys 5 gallons of RO water & someone else comes in right away & > buys 5 gallons also, are they really getting RO water? > Is the unit just an RO unit OR is it an RO + DI unit. > I have a 6 stage unit which gives me the water I need for the fish I keep. > (Apisto's, Killies & Nannochromis species). It makes 50 gallons every 24 > hours & I have that unit running in > to a 33 gal. trash can with a float valve. If anyone wants a diagram, Email > me & I will send it to you....Bill Scott > If you are really concerned about this, I would suggest you buy your own RO > unit. They are easy to install & only cost around $150.00 USD. > I also have a RaynePure Plus® Reverse Osmosis System under my sink which > gives me an additional 50 gallons.but it only has a 4 gal., tank. It was a > lot more cash, but > you can find a unit at most larger pet shops. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53647	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 6/8/2012
Subject: Pond filter for koi pond

Me again. The koi pond novice.... Sorry to be a bother yet again, but I'm now trying to search for a filter that would be good to use on my pond. I remember getting some emails not too long ago in response to my email regarding the liner and for a pump and filter. However, my email crashed and I lost most all of my emails so I will have to check on the group site when I am able to to remember what all was said. Pond info (again): 5 feet wide x 10 feet long x 4 feet deep. Raised pond. Will put a 10 inch shelf and the waterfall will be about 3 feet wide (got the 20 feet x 20 feet liner..hope I got the right one!). Not sure how HIGH my pond waterfall will be as of yet. I haven't really had the time to sit down and get into all of the specifics about that just yet. I know someone here explained to me about head height and you have to take into account how far the pump (or filter? ) is from the waterfall and how high the waterfall is?? to know gph for pump. Hope I got that right! Still a bit confused about it..(I need to find that email that explains it) Drs. Foster and Smith is having a sale on their pond stuff and I found a filter that tlooks to be a very good one tha I'm considering using on my pond. They come in several different sizes. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5186+5226+10394&pcatid=10394 It has the UV, mechanical and biological filtration combined. Not sure if I'd have to get the 2000 or the 3000. My pond will be almost 1500 gallons (well, on last calculation- guessing it will be a bit more with the 10 inch shelf on one long side). would I need to know how high the waterfall will be before I can figure the gph for the pump and the filter? Thanks! Desire' in LA for the kois- Elle, Spooks, Ginger who have recently moved outside into their temporary pre-formed pond! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53648	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

Donna-I've got a tank full of plants & they don't seem to have any effect on the nitrate. 2 large pots of thick, lush Vallis, the leaves must be around 2 feet long, some Anacharis that is growing like wildfire all over the place & assorted Hornwort but unfortunately I am not getting any better results than when my tank was almost bare so the RO water is really my last attempt to get somewhere near reasonable water quality for my fish. John*<o)))<* On 9 June 2012 02:02, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I'd use plants instead. Within one week of planting Vallisneria I had zero > nitrates. That also is not good when you have plants, but they sure are > effective. If your fish eat plants, you can plant in a refugium. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53649	From: m davis	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

i agree; life in all its forms is precious. I feed my fish critters oatmeal, fish food, and the ocassional veggie or diced meat.  What aggrevates the snot out of me is to walk into a  pet store and see a zillion feeder fish in a 15 gal. or less tank with  10-20 dead fish floating on top. even if u are using the as "feeders", all those dead fish contaminate the water and give the rest of the fish diseases, which u bring home to ur tanks.   ________________________________ From: Cheryl Ellison <cheryl.ellison@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? I so agree John, it makes me sick to see "feeder" goldfish at carnival's with kids winning them and carrying them around in bags, the fate of most of these fish is not good.  I went to a wedding once and at the reception they had a little bowl at every table with a goldfish in it, they were gasping for air, they probably had been put in these containers days before, I couldn't even look at them, it was terrible, and what the heck were they going to do with them after the reception, in infuriated me.  A life is a life, cruelty is cruelty, .10 cent fish don't deserve to die a painful, agonizing death just because they are cheap. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? I feel I have to jump in here after seeing to Monica's suggestion to use 'Feeder' Goldfish. Kez, the original poster, does not want to inflict any suffering after having seen the demise of one Goldfish due to bad advice from a store so to use them in this manner would be morally wrong for her I think. Once the system is cycled or for any other reason the Feeder fish are no longer needed then what happens to them-flushed down the sewer perhaps?   If this treatment happened on a widespread daily basis to 'cuddly & cute' bunnies & kittens then there would be an outcry but because they are 'only fish' it doesn't seem to matter & we continue to ignore it. The fact that these disposable creatures could, if properly housed live long, happy lives seem immaterial. Now that fishless cycling is widely known about, to use an intelligent, trusting & friendly animal merely for testing just because they are cheap & plentiful is, in my opinion, not only unnecessary but it goes against everything that a responsible fish keeper should be aiming for. If you use one creature to feed another that would ordinarily eat that food in the wild then that is fine but as far as I am aware nothing eats Goldfish in the wild as part of any natural food chain. I maintain ponds & I cannot think of one instance where I have put the needs of an expensive fish ahead of a cheap one, they both inhabit the same pond & they both contribute to the balance of that pond's eco system. The monetary value is only something that we, in our vanity put on the creature-the perception & value of life from the viewpoint of both the cheap Goldfish & the expensive Koi is exactly the same & that is the way I work. I realise this may be at odds with many fish keepers but that is my viewpoint & has been from day one.   John*<o)))< * On 31 May 2012 00:29, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > betas are OK as long as u have 1 male and maybe 2 females. males will > fight, sometimes to the death.  Just to start, and not put a lot of money > in it, you might get some feeder goldfish---i get 'em 6/$1 and see how u > like the fish, before investing serious money in to the hobby. but if u > want to spend it, betas are fine, tetras are pretty good, 2. good luck; > sometimes folks in those pet stores are dumb as a box of rocks. it pays to > do your research on the internet before you waste mooney on unsuitable > fish.,monica > > > ________________________________ > From: kezzabeast <kagedkez@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:05 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Which Fish?? Bettas? > > > Hi, > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 > goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from > them initially) > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love > to have some fish in the house. > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep > them together and they can be aggressive. > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if > possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 > and > 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering > the fish  good life. > > Any advice appreciated. > > Thanks > Kez > > ------------------------------------ > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53650	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

"If you take is a > life, cruelty is cruelty, .10 cent fish don't deserve to die a painful, > agonizing death just because they are cheap. your "A life is a life . . . " seriously then you would not even want to consume plants as they have to die for you to consume. The end point to that is foregone. I, therefore, differ with your stance that "A life is a life . . ." in that they are NOT all the same!" What I meant by that is that no life should have to die by needlessly suffering, I eat meat, but I would hate to think that the hamburger I had came from a cow that was tortured to death and died a long agonizing death. Obviously, I meant life that feels, I am not against "feeder fish" as "feeder fish", they serve the purpose of food for another life and generally their death is swift, I am not a fan of spiders, but I wouldn't pull out their legs and wait for them to die. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53651	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond

Desire', I sent you all the needed information all over again, after sending it originally when at that time you said you lost it. I believe the first time you asked for it was back in February, and then again in April, although I'm not really sure if those months are correct. I can't keep writing long replies over again when you keep losing them, although I understand your 'puter problems. If you felt the info was beneficial to you back then, you might have either printed it out, filed it, or made a written notation where you could easily find it again. For now, I'd suggest doing a Yahoogroup search for those messages on the Aquatic Life Yahoo Group home page, if you know some of the wording of the Subject Line. If you don't know what was included in the Subject Line, just search through the back messages on the List page by repeatedly hitting "older" on the message lists and reading through the Subject Lines until you get back to it. Watch for your own post -- which you should recognize and my reply will be seen somewhere after that. Easy enough to do, especially if you remember about when you posted it, but I just can't do it for you right now. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53652	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond

Hi Desire', Go to to the Aquatic Life forum page [rather than accessing it via your email account] & click 'Messages' in the left hand side menu. Then in the 'Message #' box type the message number that you want. I think the 4 messages you are looking for are: 53568, 53571, 53575 & 53577. John*<o)))< * On 9 June 2012 04:00, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > Me again. The koi pond novice.... > > Sorry to be a bother yet again, but I'm now trying to search for a filter > that would be good to use on my pond. I remember getting some emails not > too long ago in response to my email regarding the liner and for a pump and > filter. However, my email crashed and I lost most all of my emails so I > will have to check on the group site when I am able to to remember what all > was said. > > Pond info (again): 5 feet wide x 10 feet long x 4 feet deep. Raised pond. > Will put a 10 inch shelf and the waterfall will be about 3 feet wide (got > the 20 feet x 20 feet liner..hope I got the right one!). Not sure how HIGH > my pond waterfall will be as of yet. I haven't really had the time to sit > down and get into all of the specifics about that just yet. I know someone > here explained to me about head height and you have to take into account > how far the pump (or filter? ) is from the waterfall and how high the > waterfall is?? to know gph for pump. Hope I got that right! Still a bit > confused about it..(I need to find that email that explains it) > > Drs. Foster and Smith is having a sale on their pond stuff and I found a > filter that tlooks to be a very good one tha I'm considering using on my > pond. They come in several different sizes. > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5186+5226+10394&pcatid=10394 > > It has the UV, mechanical and biological filtration combined. Not sure if > I'd have to get the 2000 or the 3000. My pond will be almost 1500 gallons > (well, on last calculation- guessing it will be a bit more with the 10 inch > shelf on one long side). would I need to know how high the waterfall will > be before I can figure the gph for the pump and the filter? > > Thanks! > > Desire' in LA > for the kois- Elle, Spooks, Ginger who have recently moved outside into > their temporary pre-formed pond! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53653	From: Desire' A. Heatherly	Date: 6/9/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond

Oh, I wasn't asking anyone to re-write anything. I will try to get to those other emails on the Yahoo! group site to try to print them off. I was just asking if the pond filter I linked to would be a good one! (it has mechanical, biological AND UV clarifier in it) Thanks! Desire' in Louisiana ----- Original Message ----- From: sevenspringss@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Pond filter for koi pond Desire', I sent you all the needed information all over again, after sending it originally when at that time you said you lost it. I believe the first time you asked for it was back in February, and then again in April, although I'm not really sure if those months are correct. I can't keep writing long replies over again when you keep losing them, although I understand your 'puter problems. If you felt the info was beneficial to you back then, you might have either printed it out, filed it, or made a written notation where you could easily find it again. For now, I'd suggest doing a Yahoogroup search for those messages on the Aquatic Life Yahoo Group home page, if you know some of the wording of the Subject Line. If you don't know what was included in the Subject Line, just search through the back messages on the List page by repeatedly hitting "older" on the message lists and reading through the Subject Lines until you get back to it. Watch for your own post -- which you should recognize and my reply will be seen somewhere after that. Easy enough to do, especially if you remember about when you posted it, but I just can't do it for you right now. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53654	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: Pond filter for koi pond

Hi Desire', Yes, sorry I didn't read your post properly! When planning on filtration for Carps be it tanks or ponds of any size I would always recommend doubling the water capacity & buying filtration accordingly so if your pond is 1500 gallons then go for a filter that is manufacturer rated for 3000 gallons. That way you plenty of spare capacity in hand to take care of any minor water quality issues as well as the gradual growth of your fish because the bigger they get the more waste they will be putting out. Additionally it then gives you the option to add one or two more fish in future without worrying about the eco system. Specifically, the filter that you linked to-I have no experience of this particular model but I have worked with various pressure filters & I have always found them to be rather inconvenient & difficult to maintain, particularly getting them to re-seal properly after maintenance plus you have more stuff to go wrong. If you have a simple gravity-fed system where the pump in the bottom of your pond simply fills a box of sponges & then that falls back into the pond with gravity you have a much easier to work with system & you have no pressure so don't have to worry about sealing everything up. The only moving part is the pump but with a pressure system you have several. Obviously the benefits of this one you have liked to is that everything is in one place, the UV light is in there too whereas I would install a separate UV unit cut into the pipe [drive train] between the pump & filter box. If you do decide on a pressure filter don't believe the manufacturer's claims that they are self-cleaning! Ignore the back-flushing advice, take it apart once a month & manually clean out the gunge from the sponges by rinsing them in clean old pond water-it is far more effective. I'm not sure what gravity filters are available in the States-I recall someone saying that Oase Biotech systems were not available in America? Perhaps some of the ponders in the States can tell you what is available out there or might also be an idea to go into or call several aquatic stores & see what they have to offer, the more you ask the better idea you will get of what is available & can compare prices-sometimes they can be wildly different for the same product. As an example, last year a customer wanted an Oase Biotech 10 & they were generally going for around £379 but shopping around I found one locally for £199 so always worth looking. John*<o)))<* On 9 June 2012 23:02, Desire' A. Heatherly <mustanggirl83@...>wrote: > ** > > > Oh, I wasn't asking anyone to re-write anything. I will try to get to > those other emails on the Yahoo! group site to try to print them off. I was > just asking if the pond filter I linked to would be a good one! (it has > mechanical, biological AND UV clarifier in it) > > Thanks! > Desire' in Louisiana > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53655	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

> I've got a tank full of plants & they don't seem to have any effect > on the nitrate.   John, one thought that comes to mind is that perhaps your nitrate test is not very accurate? If you could find a water sample that you KNOW is nitrate free, I would run your test on it to get a baseline on it to make sure that zero nitrates is really zero nitrates. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53656	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2012
Subject: Re: RO water vs Bottled water

Hi Patrick, Thanks for hte suggestion but I did think of that knowing that these tests can sometimes give false results but I have used this same test kit [API] on customer's ponds that have readings as low as 2 or 3. I also tried it on my girlfriend's tank & tap water [she is in the same supply area as myself] & that is the same high readings as mine. My R/O water however is a real improvement-I tested a sample this afternoon & it was just over 10. I have also tested with several other good makes such as Tetra, Nutrafin & Palin-they all return the same results across the board unfortunately. John*<o)))<* On 10 June 2012 23:03, Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@...> wrote: > ** > > > > I've got a tank full of plants & they don't seem to have any effect > > > on the nitrate. > > > John, one thought that comes to mind is that perhaps your nitrate test is > not very accurate? If you could find a water sample that you KNOW is > nitrate free, I would run your test on it to get a baseline on it to make > sure that zero nitrates is really zero nitrates. > > Regards, > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53657	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?

I have had a male half moon Betta for one month. I brought him home from the aquarium store and put him into a small "critter keeper" (one of the small plastic tubs with handles). The water was treated, etc. This was while I was cycling the new tank. The first three days he was happy. He was building bubble nests. then he suddenly stopped. Four days later, I put him in his 6 gallon tank.I am using a sponge filter. Heated to about 80 F. I check water levels and do water changes every 7 to 10 days. I treat the new water before I put in the tank with Prime and add some of the BetaPlus water conditioner with almond leaf extract. I feed him three Betta pellets every morning. One day I week I give him freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets. One day I week I fast him. His appetite is great. In the new tank he has never built bubble nests. He is very active and appears healthy. However, He never stops fighting his reflection. I think this is stressing him out. I no longer turn on the artificial light (made the tank too reflective he was constantly fighting). Now he gets indirect sunlight from the windows in the room with the aquarium. It has calmed him down a little, but he still constantly fights his reflection. I have tried different outside backings. Most ones made for aquariums are too glossy.However. matte paper and clothes ones of different colors have not helped. He still fights his reflection. I have a large leafy artificial plant for him to hide. He doesn't usually. I also have a large sunken jar aquarium ornament for him to hide in and relax , but he never hangs out in there. I am thinking of adding another artificial plant. So at this point here are my questions: What kind of backing that is non reflecting can I use? The owner of the fish store suggested using a precut and pre painted styrofoam backing. I am concerned that this will leach harmful chemicals into the water. Is that true> I saw on the internet a green mesh backing you put in the tank, so moss can grow on it. I was thinking of using this as the backing and growing java moss on it. I also thought of putting natural almond leaves in, which would tint the water and maybe cut down on the glare. Thoughts? Any other backing suggestions? Or ideas why he isn't making bubble nests? Thank you!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53658	From: Brian	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?

You already tried or thought of most ideas I can think of for the covering. One I thought of that may or may not work (but is permanant) is to paint to outside (back/sides). If this is still too reflective, you could try scuffing up the insides with some sandpaper or maybe even a scotchbrite pad (no soap and as coarse as you can find) to cut down on the shine and make a frosted texture. This might (probably would) grow algae real quick though. With water changes, this might not be a problem and it might actually look nice if it don't get real out of control. I'm guessing this tank is plastic. If not, wet/dry sandpaper might scratch the glass enough but would be more expensive of a mistake if it doesn't work. Might just need a larger tank with more space to distract it. The filter is disturbing the water surface and it can't build the bubble nest. Others will have to give more details but I think they need calm/shallow water to build their bubble nest and hatch eggs. ...Brian in PA yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> wrote: >I have had a male half moon Betta for one month. > >I brought him home from the aquarium store and put him into a small "critter keeper" (one of the small plastic tubs with handles). The water was treated, etc. This was while I was cycling the new tank. > >The first three days he was happy. He was building bubble nests. then he suddenly stopped. > >Four days later, I put him in his 6 gallon tank.I am using a sponge filter. Heated to about 80 F. I check water levels and do water changes every 7 to 10 days. I treat the new water before I put in the tank with Prime and add some of the BetaPlus water conditioner with almond leaf extract. > >I feed him three Betta pellets every morning. One day I week I give him freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets. One day I week I fast him. His appetite is great. > > >In the new tank he has never built bubble nests. He is very active and appears healthy. > >However, He never stops fighting his reflection. I think this is stressing him out. I no longer turn on the artificial light (made the tank too reflective he was constantly fighting). Now he gets indirect sunlight from the windows in the room with the aquarium. It has calmed him down a little, but he still constantly fights his reflection. > >I have tried different outside backings. Most ones made for aquariums are too glossy.However. matte paper and clothes ones of different colors have not helped. He still fights his reflection. > >I have a large leafy artificial plant for him to hide. He doesn't usually. I also have a large sunken jar aquarium ornament for him to hide in and relax , but he never hangs out in there. I am thinking of adding another artificial plant. > > >So at this point here are my questions: > >What kind of backing that is non reflecting can I use? > >The owner of the fish store suggested using a precut and pre painted styrofoam backing. I am concerned that this will leach harmful chemicals into the water. Is that true> > > >I saw on the internet a green mesh backing you put in the tank, so moss can grow on it. I was thinking of using this as the backing and growing java moss on it. > >I also thought of putting natural almond leaves in, which would tint the water and maybe cut down on the glare. > > >Thoughts? > >Any other backing suggestions? Or ideas why he isn't making bubble nests? > >Thank you!! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53659	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?

Hi Yehezkal, Unfortunately I cannot offer you any specific Betta advice but you are right about the possible harmful effects of putting anything like pre painted backings into the water-no matter how much the manufacturers tell you they are safe. Also, no matter what material or colour you use on the outside of your tank you will never get any lessening of the internal gloss because the glass is reflective. John*<o)))< * On 11 June 2012 22:56, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > You already tried or thought of most ideas I can think of for the > covering. One I thought of that may or may not work (but is permanant) is > to paint to outside (back/sides). If this is still too reflective, you > could try scuffing up the insides with some sandpaper or maybe even a > scotchbrite pad (no soap and as coarse as you can find) to cut down on the > shine and make a frosted texture. This might (probably would) grow algae > real quick though. With water changes, this might not be a problem and it > might actually look nice if it don't get real out of control. I'm guessing > this tank is plastic. If not, wet/dry sandpaper might scratch the glass > enough but would be more expensive of a mistake if it doesn't work. Might > just need a larger tank with more space to distract it. > > The filter is disturbing the water surface and it can't build the bubble > nest. Others will have to give more details but I think they need > calm/shallow water to build their bubble nest and hatch eggs. > > ...Brian in PA > > > yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> wrote: > > >I have had a male half moon Betta for one month. > > > >I brought him home from the aquarium store and put him into a small > "critter keeper" (one of the small plastic tubs with handles). The water > was treated, etc. This was while I was cycling the new tank. > > > >The first three days he was happy. He was building bubble nests. then he > suddenly stopped. > > > >Four days later, I put him in his 6 gallon tank.I am using a sponge > filter. Heated to about 80 F. I check water levels and do water changes > every 7 to 10 days. I treat the new water before I put in the tank with > Prime and add some of the BetaPlus water conditioner with almond leaf > extract. > > > >I feed him three Betta pellets every morning. One day I week I give him > freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets. One day I week I fast him. > His appetite is great. > > > > > >In the new tank he has never built bubble nests. He is very active and > appears healthy. > > > >However, He never stops fighting his reflection. I think this is > stressing him out. I no longer turn on the artificial light (made the tank > too reflective he was constantly fighting). Now he gets indirect sunlight > from the windows in the room with the aquarium. It has calmed him down a > little, but he still constantly fights his reflection. > > > >I have tried different outside backings. Most ones made for aquariums are > too glossy.However. matte paper and clothes ones of different colors have > not helped. He still fights his reflection. > > > >I have a large leafy artificial plant for him to hide. He doesn't > usually. I also have a large sunken jar aquarium ornament for him to hide > in and relax , but he never hangs out in there. I am thinking of adding > another artificial plant. > > > > > >So at this point here are my questions: > > > >What kind of backing that is non reflecting can I use? > > > >The owner of the fish store suggested using a precut and pre painted > styrofoam backing. I am concerned that this will leach harmful chemicals > into the water. Is that true> > > > > > >I saw on the internet a green mesh backing you put in the tank, so moss > can grow on it. I was thinking of using this as the backing and growing > java moss on it. > > > >I also thought of putting natural almond leaves in, which would tint the > water and maybe cut down on the glare. > > > > > >Thoughts? > > > >Any other backing suggestions? Or ideas why he isn't making bubble nests? > > > >Thank you!! > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53660	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/11/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?

The mesh backing to grow moss on actually sounds like a really good idea to me, but it will take time to grow unless you buy one that's pre-grown. (I suggest checking aquabid.com for the pre-grown moss backgrounds). If the sponge filter is causing a lot of surface agitation he won't be able to properly build a nest (but that doesn't stop some males from trying anyways). I had a plakat male that never built a nest, but my "normal" long finned male used to build one all the time (he preferred a floating leaf, but they degrade over time and you have to replace them often). Some people use a styrofoam cup and cut it in half and float it on top of the water, it will give the male a calm spot to build a nest under and it won't foul up your water in your tank. If you don't have any live plants it's probably better not to use too much lighting as it will just cause the algae to grow even more, be careful about the tank getting too much sunlight as well as this will cause algae to grow even more than an artificial light does. Maybe use a desk lamp that's just nearby the tank (rather than right over the top)? Just a thought. Amber On 6/11/2012 11:24 AM, yehezkal18 wrote: > > I have had a male half moon Betta for one month. > > I brought him home from the aquarium store and put him into a small > "critter keeper" (one of the small plastic tubs with handles). The > water was treated, etc. This was while I was cycling the new tank. > > The first three days he was happy. He was building bubble nests. then > he suddenly stopped. > > Four days later, I put him in his 6 gallon tank.I am using a sponge > filter. Heated to about 80 F. I check water levels and do water > changes every 7 to 10 days. I treat the new water before I put in the > tank with Prime and add some of the BetaPlus water conditioner with > almond leaf extract. > > I feed him three Betta pellets every morning. One day I week I give > him freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets. One day I week I > fast him. His appetite is great. > > In the new tank he has never built bubble nests. He is very active and > appears healthy. > > However, He never stops fighting his reflection. I think this is > stressing him out. I no longer turn on the artificial light (made the > tank too reflective he was constantly fighting). Now he gets indirect > sunlight from the windows in the room with the aquarium. It has calmed > him down a little, but he still constantly fights his reflection. > > I have tried different outside backings. Most ones made for aquariums > are too glossy.However. matte paper and clothes ones of different > colors have not helped. He still fights his reflection. > > I have a large leafy artificial plant for him to hide. He doesn't > usually. I also have a large sunken jar aquarium ornament for him to > hide in and relax , but he never hangs out in there. I am thinking of > adding another artificial plant. > > So at this point here are my questions: > > What kind of backing that is non reflecting can I use? > > The owner of the fish store suggested using a precut and pre painted > styrofoam backing. I am concerned that this will leach harmful > chemicals into the water. Is that true> > > I saw on the internet a green mesh backing you put in the tank, so > moss can grow on it. I was thinking of using this as the backing and > growing java moss on it. > > I also thought of putting natural almond leaves in, which would tint > the water and maybe cut down on the glare. > > Thoughts? > > Any other backing suggestions? Or ideas why he isn't making bubble nests? > > Thank you!! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53661	From: m davis	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection?

put them on the outside of the tank using some kind of water soluble glue stick-so u can remove the backing when u want to.mdavis   ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stressed Out Betta? Fron fighting his reflection? Hi Yehezkal,   Unfortunately I cannot offer you any specific Betta advice but you are right about the possible harmful effects of putting anything like pre painted backings into the water-no matter how much the manufacturers tell you they are safe. Also, no matter what material or colour you use on the outside of your tank you will never get any lessening of the internal gloss because the glass is reflective.   John*<o)))< * On 11 June 2012 22:56, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > You already tried or thought of most ideas I can think of for the > covering. One I thought of that may or may not work (but is permanant) is > to paint to outside (back/sides). If this is still too reflective, you > could try scuffing up the insides with some sandpaper or maybe even a > scotchbrite pad (no soap and as coarse as you can find) to cut down on the > shine and make a frosted texture. This might (probably would) grow algae > real quick though. With water changes, this might not be a problem and it > might actually look nice if it don't get real out of control. I'm guessing > this tank is plastic. If not, wet/dry sandpaper might scratch the glass > enough but would be more expensive of a mistake if it doesn't work. Might > just need a larger tank with more space to distract it. > > The filter is disturbing the water surface and it can't build the bubble > nest. Others will have to give more details but I think they need > calm/shallow water to build their bubble nest and hatch eggs. > > ...Brian in PA > > > yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> wrote: > > >I have had a male half moon Betta for one month. > > > >I brought him home from the aquarium store and put him into a small > "critter keeper" (one of the small plastic tubs with handles). The water > was treated, etc. This was while I was cycling the new tank. > > > >The first three days he was happy. He was building bubble nests. then he > suddenly stopped. > > > >Four days later, I put him in his 6 gallon tank.I am using a sponge > filter. Heated to about 80 F. I check water levels and do water changes > every 7 to 10 days. I treat the new water before I put in the tank with > Prime and add some of the BetaPlus water conditioner with almond leaf > extract. > > > >I feed him three Betta pellets every morning. One day I week I give him > freeze dried blood worms instead of the pellets. One day I week I fast him. > His appetite is great. > > > > > >In the new tank he has never built bubble nests. He is very active and > appears healthy. > > > >However, He never stops fighting his reflection. I think this is > stressing him out. I no longer turn on the artificial light (made the tank > too reflective he was constantly fighting). Now he gets indirect sunlight > from the windows in the room with the aquarium. It has calmed him down a > little, but he still constantly fights his reflection. > > > >I have tried different outside backings. Most ones made for aquariums are > too glossy.However. matte paper and clothes ones of different colors have > not helped. He still fights his reflection. > > > >I have a large leafy artificial plant for him to hide. He doesn't > usually. I also have a large sunken jar aquarium ornament for him to hide > in and relax , but he never hangs out in there. I am thinking of adding > another artificial plant. > > > > > >So at this point here are my questions: > > > >What kind of backing that is non reflecting can I use? > > > >The owner of the fish store suggested using a precut and pre painted > styrofoam backing. I am concerned that this will leach harmful chemicals > into the water. Is that true> > > > > > >I saw on the internet a green mesh backing you put in the tank, so moss > can grow on it. I was thinking of using this as the backing and growing > java moss on it. > > > >I also thought of putting natural almond leaves in, which would tint the > water and maybe cut down on the glare. > > > > > >Thoughts? > > > >Any other backing suggestions? Or ideas why he isn't making bubble nests? > > > >Thank you!! > > > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53662	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Look I found interesting opportunity...

<p>Hi Friend...<br><br>living on my own has really opened my eyes now im always one step ahead I had finally hit rock bottom!<br><a href="http://projecteveryone.99k.org//Darren_Wright88/">http://projecteveryone.99k.org//Darren_Wright88/</a> now im on top of my game<br>I thought maybe you needed some help.<br>goodbye!</p> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53663	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Don't open this link.....Re: [AquaticLife] Look I found interesting

Sorry for the inconvenience. I will change my password. That normally stops it. Harry ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AlexanderOilPaintingClub@yahoogroups.com" <AlexanderOilPaintingClub@yahoogroups.com>; "Alternative-Medicine-Forum@yahoogroups.com" <Alternative-Medicine-Forum@yahoogroups.com>; "antiqueoutboard-engines@yahoogroups.com" <antiqueoutboard-engines@yahoogroups.com>; "anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com" <anubiasdesign@yahoogroups.com>; "AquaBiz@yahoogroups.com" <AquaBiz@yahoogroups.com>; "aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com" <aquaria-freshwater@yahoogroups.com>; "aquarium_club@yahoogroups.com" <aquarium_club@yahoogroups.com>; "aquariumclub2@yahoogroups.com" <aquariumclub2@yahoogroups.com>; "aquariumdebates@yahoogroups.com" <aquariumdebates@yahoogroups.com>; "aquariumfishlovers@yahoogroups.com" <aquariumfishlovers@yahoogroups.com>; "AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com>; "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com>; "art@..." <art@...>; "art@..." <art@...>; "ArtAnonAlt@yahoogroups.com" <ArtAnonAlt@yahoogroups.com>; "ArtAnonymous@yahoogroups.com" <ArtAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>; "Artists-Who-Survive@yahoogroups.com" <Artists-Who-Survive@yahoogroups.com>; "backporch@..." <backporch@...>; "badis-dario@yahoogroups.com" <badis-dario@yahoogroups.com>; "badisbadis@yahoogroups.com" <badisbadis@yahoogroups.com>; "boilerplant@..." <boilerplant@...>; "Cafe_Terrace@yahoogroups.com" <Cafe_Terrace@yahoogroups.com>; "casseroles_and_crockpots@yahoogroups.com" <casseroles_and_crockpots@yahoogroups.com>; "cia_price@..." <cia_price@...>; "CigarEnvy@yahoogroups.com" <CigarEnvy@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:57 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Look I found interesting opportunity...   <p>Hi Friend...<br><br>living on my own has really opened my eyes now im always one step ahead I had finally hit rock bottom!<br><a href="http://projecteveryone.99k.org//Darren_Wright88/">http://projecteveryone.99k.org//Darren_Wright88/</a> now im on top of my game<br>I thought maybe you needed some help.<br>goodbye!</p> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53664	From: harry perry	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Do not open any link sent by me. Hi-jacked e-mail

It would be best not to open any links unless you are sure who sent it. This is happening a lot across all Yahoo groups. Sorry for the inconvenience. I will change my password. That normally stops it. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53665	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Trimming plants?

Hi all, I have different plants in our 10 Gallon aquarium and some of the stems became so long that I probably should start trimming them. I was so glad that they finally grew a lot that I only recently realized how messy it became and that the fish do not have much free swimming space anymore. How does one usually trim a plant best? I think I remember somebody mentioned better from the root because they grow back fast? Is that right? Does it depend on the plant? I do not remember all plant names correctly but I have spread over two 10G aquariums Wisteria, Cabomba, Gold Ribbon, Pennywort, Argentine Sword and others Thanks for info! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53666	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: peaceful/shy Betta

Hi, we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... We have them since a couple of days now. Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53667	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: fishless cycling - "nature's method"

Hi John, I remembered your advice how you cycled your tank "all natural" ;) Just wanted to let you know that we used your method on our second 10G aquarium at our second attempt to cycle it fishless. The first time we used the wrong type of ammonium bottle and had to do it all over again (so I tried something new...). It worked great and was minimum effort! When I looked online for more opinions and saw some forum dialogues about it like "how gross..." or "I could never touch that water again..." I could only laugh. People do not mind touching the dirty fish water but are appalled if they add something much "cleaner"? I guess after having two kids the perspective changes a lot :) So thank you for that advice! The fish are swimming happily around since days and it was really easy! Nora P.S. For those who wonder: we added a natural product "U...e" ;)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53668	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: feeding betta in community tank

Hi again, I wonder how we should feed our Betta the right way in a community tank with Platies and Tetras together. I have not read a lot about it yet but since Betta are carnivores and the others omnivores: how does the Betta know what is his food? I read one should not feed Betta the normal Tropical Flakes. But he seems to snack on them too anytime I put them in for the others. Does it matter? Until now I bought freeze dried blood worms and freeze dried brine shrimps. Additional I put in the tank different varieties of flakes with more or less algae in it. Can I trust that the Betta knows what is good for him in which amount? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53669	From: m davis	Date: 6/12/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

platys can be mean little monsters. i set up a tank with platys and bettas 2 years ago.  the plattys gnawed the skin off the male betta's head n killed him. 100 gallon tank   ________________________________ From: nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:54 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] peaceful/shy Betta Hi, we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... We have them since a couple of days now. Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. Thanks, Nora ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53670	From: joe t	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?

Hello, Nora. You mentioned trimming your plants from the roots? The only time I remember giving info about cutting plants roots, along with other members....Donna and Amber come to mind, is when initially putting the plants in the tank. For plants that are growing well, I DO NOT recommend pulling them up to trim the roots. If you are just wanting to trim the plants, such as cabomba, wisteria, and pennywort just trim the stems. As a matter of fact, the stems can be replanted to start more plants. Plants like the Argentine sword plant and such, I would just trim the leaves. Take off old decaying leaves, etc. Now, if you are talking about taking the plants out of the aquarium because you want to put them elswhere, then I would go through the process of trimming roots, etc. when replanting them. If you are talking about dividing the plants that is another thing all together. You can try it, but be aware it is an experiment and you may lose the plant until you get the hang of it. It takes a bit of experience, but as we all know, there is only one way to get that. As for Gold Ribbon plant, I am at a loss. I never heard of it so I can not offer any advise. Maybe I know it by another name.(?) joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53671	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? really Nora!? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... > > We have them since a couple of days now. > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. > > Thanks, Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53672	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: fishless cycling - "nature's method"

Hi Nora, What great news! Like yourself I thought it was a crazy idea when I first heard about it but I was told by a very dear & sadly deceased friend Dr Lawrence Belshaw who ran the Fish Helpline in the UK. There was not much that Lawrence didn't know about fish so whatever he told you to do, no matter how bizarre you knew it would be ok. There are at least 2 distinct benefits to using this 'product' over anything store-bought. One is you know what's in it, the other [my favorite] it's free. John*<o)))< * On 13 June 2012 04:05, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > I remembered your advice how you cycled your tank "all natural" ;) > > Just wanted to let you know that we used your method on our second 10G > aquarium at our second attempt to cycle it fishless. The first time we used > the wrong type of ammonium bottle and had to do it all over again (so I > tried something new...). > > It worked great and was minimum effort! > When I looked online for more opinions and saw some forum dialogues about > it like "how gross..." or "I could never touch that water again..." I could > only laugh. People do not mind touching the dirty fish water but are > appalled if they add something much "cleaner"? > I guess after having two kids the perspective changes a lot :) > > So thank you for that advice! The fish are swimming happily around since > days and it was really easy! > > Nora > > P.S. For those who wonder: we added a natural product "U...e" ;) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53673	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/13/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?

Nora, can you post a photo or a link showing the Gold Ribbon plant? I've never heard that name either but there are so many different names for the same plant that it is probably common if we saw it. John*<o)))< * On 13 June 2012 17:36, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, Nora. > > You mentioned trimming your plants from the roots? The only time I > remember giving info about cutting plants roots, along with other > members....Donna and Amber come to mind, is when initially putting the > plants in the tank. For plants that are growing well, I DO NOT recommend > pulling them up to trim the roots. If you are just wanting to trim the > plants, such as cabomba, wisteria, and pennywort just trim the stems. As a > matter of fact, the stems can be replanted to start more plants. > > Plants like the Argentine sword plant and such, I would just trim the > leaves. Take off old decaying leaves, etc. > > Now, if you are talking about taking the plants out of the aquarium > because you want to put them elswhere, then I would go through the process > of trimming roots, etc. when replanting them. > > If you are talking about dividing the plants that is another thing all > together. You can try it, but be aware it is an experiment and you may lose > the plant until you get the hang of it. It takes a bit of experience, but > as we all know, there is only one way to get that. > > As for Gold Ribbon plant, I am at a loss. I never heard of it so I can not > offer any advise. Maybe I know it by another name.(?) > > joe t > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53674	From: betti@optonline.net	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

Tetras are known to nip fins and bettas have gorgeous long fins, so that might be why he is wary of them. Bettas are very peaceful fish, except a male betta with another male betta. They do fine in mixed tanks, but I would be very cautious about having that many tetras in a small tank with other fish. Maybe eliminate either the betta or the tetras with the platties. ----- Original Message -----From: Al Keep Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:39 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] Re: peaceful/shy BettaTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> 2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? > really Nora!? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" > wrote:> >> > Hi,> > > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We > filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two > schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is > it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The > Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and > backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer...> > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate > the tank...> > > > We have them since a couple of days now.> > > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have > different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ.> > > > Thanks, Nora> >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53675	From: yehezkal18	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Does any one in this forum live In Israel?

I live in Jerusalem, Israel and I am trying to find certain products for my aquarium here or know what I can import. Please contact me via email

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53676	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: My Plants

Hello, I have some kind of Sword plant and Amazon Plant in a tank, along with live bearers and Malaysian Trumpet Snails, lots of these. For 3 years the snails never ate the plants which were thrieving near the window. Now I'm noticing that they're eating them, I see a dozen of snails on one leaf, and all the leaves are decaying and getting worn-out. I'm wondering which happened first, the plants decaying or the snails invasion! Nothing changed in the tank, not even the lighting or fish population. Any idea what and why this is happening? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53677	From: William M	Date: 6/14/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

If you have not changed to lighting, thesplectrum of the light bulbs has changed over time and may not be giving the right light to the plants which may be causing the lelaves to decay and the trumpet snails to try eating the decaying leaves. I woudl try to change the light bulbs to newer ones with full slprectum for the plants and see what happens. Also what other maitience do you do and how often? h, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate as well asow much and how often do you do water changes. We will need the numbers of the pH, nitrite and nitrate andnot just that they are ok. Another thing is that they might not be getting enough fertilizers to grow well. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have some kind of Sword plant and Amazon Plant in a tank, along with live > bearers and Malaysian Trumpet Snails, lots of these. > > For 3 years the snails never ate the plants which were thrieving near the > window. Now I'm noticing that they're eating them, I see a dozen of snails > on one leaf, and all the leaves are decaying and getting worn-out. > > I'm wondering which happened first, the plants decaying or the snails > invasion! > > Nothing changed in the tank, not even the lighting or fish population. > > > > Any idea what and why this is happening? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53678	From: Patrick	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." wrote: > I have some kind of Sword plant and Amazon Plant in a tank, along > with live bearers and Malaysian Trumpet Snails, lots of these. > > For 3 years the snails never ate the plants which were thrieving > near the window. Now I'm noticing that they're eating them, > I see a dozen of snails on one leaf, and all the leaves are > decaying and getting worn-out. > > I'm wondering which happened first, the plants decaying or the > snails invasion! I am going with the plant leaves decaying first then the snails going after them. Trumpet snails, in my experience, are not plant eaters in the sense that they do not attack healthy leaves. Sword plants will tend to drop leaves after a while and grow new ones, so it isn't unusual to have a few leaves go bad. But if the whole plant is having problems, then like already suggested you might want to look at what might be causing problems there like your light being no longer very food, water conditions changed, etc.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53679	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

This is most likely a light or nutrient issue, or both. Malaysian Livebearing snails will not eat healthy plants; I have 7 well-planted tanks with hundreds if not thousands of these snails and they have never touched healthy plant leaves. But as soon as a leaf begins to die, they will. The light issue raised by the other member is probably the issue. Fluorescent tubes (I'm assuming you have this type of lighting) must be replaced on a regular basis, not wait for them to burn out, because the intensity diminishes quite rapidly as they burn. If it is T8, the "standard" 1-inch diameter tube, planted tank authors vary in recommending from one to three years for the latest T8 tubes; I have found issues after 18 months [algae begins to increase, which can occur if the light is not of sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis] so I tend to replace them before this. If you have just one tank, every 12 months will not break the bank and you will be OK with respect to the light. Nutrients is less likely an issue unless something has changed in this area, if the plants have been fine for the past couple of years. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I have some kind of Sword plant and Amazon Plant in a tank, along with live > bearers and Malaysian Trumpet Snails, lots of these. > > For 3 years the snails never ate the plants which were thrieving near the > window. Now I'm noticing that they're eating them, I see a dozen of snails > on one leaf, and all the leaves are decaying and getting worn-out. > > I'm wondering which happened first, the plants decaying or the snails > invasion! > > Nothing changed in the tank, not even the lighting or fish population. > > > > Any idea what and why this is happening? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53680	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

I agree with Byron, change your lighting tubes once a year irrespective of what the manufacturer claims because although the light may look the same to you it's the luminosity which can degrade over time & this is invisible to us. John*<o)))< * On 15 June 2012 15:49, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > ** > > > This is most likely a light or nutrient issue, or both. Malaysian > Livebearing snails will not eat healthy plants; I have 7 well-planted tanks > with hundreds if not thousands of these snails and they have never touched > healthy plant leaves. But as soon as a leaf begins to die, they will. > > The light issue raised by the other member is probably the issue. > Fluorescent tubes (I'm assuming you have this type of lighting) must be > replaced on a regular basis, not wait for them to burn out, because the > intensity diminishes quite rapidly as they burn. If it is T8, the > "standard" 1-inch diameter tube, planted tank authors vary in recommending > from one to three years for the latest T8 tubes; I have found issues after > 18 months [algae begins to increase, which can occur if the light is not of > sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis] so I tend to replace them > before this. If you have just one tank, every 12 months will not break the > bank and you will be OK with respect to the light. > > Nutrients is less likely an issue unless something has changed in this > area, if the plants have been fine for the past couple of years. > > Byron. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-taweel@...> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have some kind of Sword plant and Amazon Plant in a tank, along with > live > > bearers and Malaysian Trumpet Snails, lots of these. > > > > For 3 years the snails never ate the plants which were thrieving near the > > window. Now I'm noticing that they're eating them, I see a dozen of > snails > > on one leaf, and all the leaves are decaying and getting worn-out. > > > > I'm wondering which happened first, the plants decaying or the snails > > invasion! > > > > Nothing changed in the tank, not even the lighting or fish population. > > > > > > > > Any idea what and why this is happening? > > > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53681	From: Robert	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Returning to the tank

Hey guys. It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a Betta at the time. My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, most likely with tropical fish. While I know the general rule is to stay away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in their aquarium section. What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available? Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas? Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so that's reasonable as well. Any advice is appreciated. V/R Rob Mazur

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53682	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

Hi again, thanks for all responses! It seems the Betta only needed a few days of getting used to his new environment. In the beginning he swam very slow and rested a lot. Now he is much faster and swims more often actively around. If the platties come too close he sometimes rises his fins and they go apart from each other again. I think they will be fine and seem to enjoy the tank... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, betti@... wrote: > > Tetras are known to nip fins and bettas have gorgeous long fins, so that might be why he is wary of them. Bettas are very peaceful fish, except a male betta with another male betta. They do fine in mixed tanks, but I would be very cautious about having that many tetras in a small tank with other fish. Maybe eliminate either the betta or the tetras with the platties. ----- Original Message -----From: Al Keep Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:39 pmSubject: [AquaticLife] Re: peaceful/shy BettaTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> 2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? > really Nora!? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" > wrote:> >> > Hi,> > > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We > filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two > schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is > it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The > Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and > backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer...> > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate > the tank...> > > > We have them since a couple of days now.> > > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have > different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ.> > > > Thanks, Nora> >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53683	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

Yes, really! But do not worry, there are less than 50 tetra in each school ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > 2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? really Nora!? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... > > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... > > > > We have them since a couple of days now. > > > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53684	From: rachell7	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Tired of replacing fish after a year or less. Suggestions anyone?

I am losing the last of my bumble bee's. It seems that the platys I chose have a short life expectancy. They last a year at the most and bottom line is - I'm getting rather tired of replacing them. I looked on-line and was happy to see my plecostomus should be around for a while. :) So with that in mind, what recommendations do you have for peaceful, colorful companion fish that are easy to care for and will still be around a little longer then my platys. I have a 10 gallon tank but would like to up-grade. RaChell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53685	From: Evy	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

I just bought a new Betta from PetSmart... why is the general rule to stay away from these two stores? I was planning on getting more fish and possibly a couple of African Dwarf frogs from them. Evy --- On Sat, 6/16/12, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: From: Robert <rpmazur@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:38 AM   Hey guys. It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a Betta at the time. My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, most likely with tropical fish. While I know the general rule is to stay away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in their aquarium section. What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available? Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas? Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so that's reasonable as well. Any advice is appreciated. V/R Rob Mazur [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53686	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

Hi, As for the light, I rarely turn on the light bulb on this tank (6 gallons) because it's right near the west window but no direct sunlight reaches the tank for more than one hour aday. It's been that way for over 3 years, summer and winter, and the same plants were doing great. I must say that the temperature in all my tanks rose dramatically this week due to a summer heat attack, especially in this tank. It was around 86.6, and this week it's about 89.6. It has just occurred to me that this might be the answer. Parameters today: PH 8 (it's always this high , alkaline tap water) Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0.25 Nitrate 80 "ouch!" I did a 50% PWC immediately and the Ammonia dropped to 0, Nitrates to 40. I'll do another PWC in 12 hours. Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53687	From: k chen	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

If the tank is big enough and there is plant coverings then Bettas goes about their own business. Betta is only aggressive when seeing other betta or provoked. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: ehebens@... Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:47:20 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: peaceful/shy Betta Yes, really! But do not worry, there are less than 50 tetra in each school ;) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > 2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? really Nora!? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... > > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... > > > > We have them since a couple of days now. > > > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53688	From: m davis	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

my local pet smart isn' t tooo bad; generally, if one person  doesn't know the answer to a question, they will find a  department mgr who usually  does. I love their discount cards; nice varieties of fish for a buck---only problem; they run out of them fast. initially fish kinda pricey but with the card, just right.monica   ________________________________ From: Evy <evyfiftytwofourteen@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank I just bought a new Betta from PetSmart... why is the general rule to stay away from these two stores? I was planning on getting more fish and possibly a couple of African Dwarf frogs from them. Evy --- On Sat, 6/16/12, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: From: Robert <rpmazur@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:38 AM                           Hey guys.  It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a Betta at the time.  My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, most likely with tropical fish.  While I know the general rule is to stay away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in their aquarium section. What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available?  Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas?  Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so that's reasonable as well. Any advice is appreciated. V/R Rob Mazur                   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53689	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Hi Rob, In the UK there is a similar 'box' store called Pets At Home & to be honest they do great plants-I got some 6" Anacharis shoots from there late last year, these are now around 2-3 feet long & branching out all over the tank! I think the reason these places get a bad press is justified to some degree though, partly because many of the staff are poorly trained & know next to nothing about what they are selling & also, in general they tend to go for quantity over quality so you get lower quality stock than you would find in a small independent store. Never buy a 'starter' aquarium, they are a waste of time, effort & money that ultimately will only kill your fish. Going for a 20 gallon is a great idea for a small tropical community tank, hopefully someone can jump in here & give you some specifics about setting up & stocking your tropical tank. John*<o)))<* On 16 June 2012 16:38, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey guys. It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a > Betta at the time. My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, > most likely with tropical fish. While I know the general rule is to stay > away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in > their aquarium section. > > What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available? > Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. > Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas? Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so > that's reasonable as well. > > Any advice is appreciated. > > V/R > > Rob Mazur > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53690	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: peaceful/shy Betta

ooooh so there's less than 100 fish in that 10 gallon.... well you're fine then... i think the general rule is 10 fish per gallon.....is that right everyone?.... she's really been paying attention all this time folks...... unbelievable.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Yes, really! But do not worry, there are less than 50 tetra in each school ;) > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > 2 platys, 2 schools of tetras, and a betta!, in a 10 gallon?? really Nora!? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > we finally set up our second 10G aquarium for a Betta fish. We filled the aquarium as a community tank with 2 Platies and two schools of Tetras. They get along fine, I was only wondering: is it normal for the Betta to be so shy of the Platy/Tetra? The Betta seems happy but we were surprised that it is quite shy and backs off if other fish approach and come a little closer... > > > It is our first Betta and we somehow expected it to dominate the tank... > > > > > > We have them since a couple of days now. > > > > > > Just interested for other experiences. I read they all have different personalities, I just wonder how much they can differ. > > > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53691	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/16/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Once again, I feel that I have to defend myself and my store.  Last month, pet store employees were referred to as "dumb as rocks" and now I see the "general rule" is to stay away from Petsmart.  I am an employee of a chain of pet stores, and I realize that there are some stores out there that do a terrible job in their pet care areas.  However, there are some of us that put a lot of sweat and tears into caring for our pets; fish, reptiles, small animals, birds- you name it.  Yes, sometimes our fish supplier sends us a load of fish with problems, and we do our best to quarantine them, treat them, and hope they recover.  We pull any dead fish as soon as we see them, but the minute we don't catch one- somebody - usually a kid or a teenager will loudly proclaim to everyone around= "there's a dead one in there".   We try to educate people, but many think they know everything- yelling at us that yes, a goldfish can go in a bowl- it's just a fish!, and they just want some fish for their kid- "I don't care if they die, we have to have some fish today in our tank that we are setting up when we get home", some parents won't tell their children no.,,, and on, and on, and on,...and then I come on this site and find out that I'm as dumb as a rock and my store should be avoided.  It is very disturbing to find that this is a general rule.  I realize that we are not the small, family owned store that is fully staffed, and can concentrate on one particular group of animals every day, but some of us do the best we can with what we have.  Being on this site has given me a lot of good knowledge regarding fish care, but I am about ready to look for advice and experience elsewhere.  And yes, I have several fish tanks stocked with our "pet store" fish that are very healthy and beautiful pets. Sorry Evy, non of this rant is directed at you, and I hope your experience with a pet store is a good one.  Like I said, not all are the same, and even some of the same chain within a city will have good and bad tanks.  It really is a reflection of the store managers, and there are some really good ones out there.    ________________________________ From: Evy <evyfiftytwofourteen@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank   I just bought a new Betta from PetSmart... why is the general rule to stay away from these two stores? I was planning on getting more fish and possibly a couple of African Dwarf frogs from them. Evy --- On Sat, 6/16/12, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: From: Robert <rpmazur@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:38 AM   Hey guys. It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a Betta at the time. My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, most likely with tropical fish. While I know the general rule is to stay away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in their aquarium section. What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available? Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas? Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so that's reasonable as well. Any advice is appreciated. V/R Rob Mazur [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53692	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Hi Denise, I am so sorry if my comments have upset you-this was certainly not my intention & I was just offering my point of view from my personal experience rather than just saying what everyone else was saying. Of course there are good & bad in everything & indeed there are a couple of specialist aquatic stores in my town that I would not go near so I am not condemning all large outlets point-blank. I agree with you that is mainly down to the store manager & how they train the staff so I would revise my earlier comment & say that anyone who has had a good experience with *any *store & are happy with them then continue too patronise them until they give you reason not to. Finally please do not go elsewhere for advice, we really appreciate your being with us on this forum. John*<o)))< * On 17 June 2012 03:15, Denise Monroe <kprdenise@...> wrote: > ** > > > Once again, I feel that I have to defend myself and my store. Last month, > pet store employees were referred to as "dumb as rocks" and now I see the > "general rule" is to stay away from Petsmart. I am an employee of a chain > of pet stores, and I realize that there are some stores out there that do a > terrible job in their pet care areas. However, there are some of us that > put a lot of sweat and tears into caring for our pets; fish, reptiles, > small animals, birds- you name it. Yes, sometimes our fish supplier sends > us a load of fish with problems, and we do our best to quarantine them, > treat them, and hope they recover. We pull any dead fish as soon as we see > them, but the minute we don't catch one- somebody - usually a kid or a > teenager will loudly proclaim to everyone around= "there's a dead one in > there". We try to educate people, but many think they know everything- > yelling at us that yes, a goldfish can go in a bowl- it's just a fish!, and > they just want some fish for their kid- "I don't care if they die, we have > to have some fish today in our tank that we are setting up when we get > home", some parents won't tell their children no.,,, and on, and on, and > on,...and then I come on this site and find out that I'm as dumb as a rock > and my store should be avoided. It is very disturbing to find that this is > a general rule. I realize that we are not the small, family owned store > that is fully staffed, and can concentrate on one particular group of > animals every day, but some of us do the best we can with what we have. > Being on this site has given me a lot of good knowledge regarding fish > care, but I am about ready to look for advice and experience elsewhere. > And yes, I have several fish tanks stocked with our "pet store" fish that > are very healthy and beautiful pets. > > Sorry Evy, non of this rant is directed at you, and I hope your experience > with a pet store is a good one. Like I said, not all are the same, and > even some of the same chain within a city will have good and bad tanks. It > really is a reflection of the store managers, and there are some really > good ones out there. > > ________________________________ > From: Evy <evyfiftytwofourteen@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank > > > > I just bought a new Betta from PetSmart... why is the general rule to stay > away from these two stores? I was planning on getting more fish and > possibly a couple of African Dwarf frogs from them. > Evy > > --- On Sat, 6/16/12, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > From: Robert <rpmazur@...> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Returning to the tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 11:38 AM > > Â > > Hey guys. It's been a few years since I last posted on here and had a > Betta at the time. My wife and I are looking to setup a 20 gallon fish, > most likely with tropical fish. While I know the general rule is to stay > away from PetSmart/Co, I was there for other business and was looking in > their aquarium section. > > What are your thoughts about the "starter" aquariums that are available? > Also, does anyone know of reputable fish stores in the Ft. > Riley/Manhattan/Junction City area of Kansas? Topeka is a 2 hour drive, so > that's reasonable as well. > > Any advice is appreciated. > > V/R > > Rob Mazur > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53693	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Returning to the tank

First of all, I didn't mean to offend anybody. I am on a few other boards and personal experiences with the chain stores has been less than stellar. I also research a lot before making a significant purchase and a lot of the reviews of the Petsmarts/Cos haven't been supportive. Now I realize that not all stores are the same and there are some that do actually know what they are talking about. 6 years ago I bought a Betta from Petsmart and he lasted 4 years, above the norm and the guy there was helpful. In my humble opinion, I feel that a store dedicated to tropical fish (or fish of any type) will tend to have the information readily available. I've always been a "Mom and Pop" store shopper when possible. Again, didn't mean to offend anybody and I realize that I made a generalized, blanket statement and I also realize that I can't believe everything I hear/read, but I do take that into consideration. John -- what's the reason for staying away from a starter kit? Thanks again Rob -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ ------ Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53694	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

You need to keep on top of your water quality Noura, how often do you change the water & how much do you change each time? John*<o)))< * On 16 June 2012 21:58, Noura T. <n-taweel@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, > > As for the light, I rarely turn on the light bulb on this tank (6 gallons) > because it's right near the west window but no direct sunlight reaches the > tank for more than one hour aday. It's been that way for over 3 years, > summer and winter, and the same plants were doing great. > > I must say that the temperature in all my tanks rose dramatically this week > due to a summer heat attack, especially in this tank. It was around 86.6, > and this week it's about 89.6. It has just occurred to me that this might > be > the answer. > > Parameters today: > > PH 8 (it's always this high , alkaline tap water) > > Nitrite 0 > > Ammonia 0.25 > > Nitrate 80 "ouch!" > > I did a 50% PWC immediately and the Ammonia dropped to 0, Nitrates to 40. > I'll do another PWC in 12 hours. > > Thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53695	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Tired of replacing fish after a year or less. Suggestions anyon

The first advice I would give you is to try and figure out why you have lost so many fish before you begin buying new ones. We can help you with this but it is very important to understand your situation in order to correct any problems you appear to be having. Healthy platys should live for about 3 - 5 yrs on average, so they are a relatively short lived fish, but if they have all died within a year that is an indication of a problem. You mentioned "bumble bees" can you be more specific about the species? Are you referring to bumble bee gobys? If so, you should know that bumble bee gobys require brackish water conditions while a pleco and platys are freshwater. That would be a huge difference in environmental requirements and could begin to explain why you suffered losses of one species. Can you give us more information about the conditions in your tank? Water test results (from a liquid kit) for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? Type of filter you are using? What media is in the filter? Water temperature? Maintenance schedule (water changes and gravel vacs... how much water at a time and how often you changed it)? How many fish did you have in your tank total? (can you break it down by how many of each species please) What can you tell us about feeding your fish? Kind of foods offered? How often? How much at a time? Decor in the tank? How much and what kinds? Live plants? Type of substrate used? The more you can tell us about your tank the easier it will be for us to help you. Once we can narrow down what went wrong over this past year and why you lost so many fish so soon we will also be better able to help you find new fish that are suitable to the environment you have for them. We will also need to know what size tank you are considering upgrading to? And what type of pleco you have? If you're unsure of his species a photo can help us to identify him for you. Knowing what species you have is important for continued success in keeping him as there are many different types of plecos out there and they can have very different needs, from food supply to long term housing/environment conditions, to suitable/compatible tank mates. Sorry there isn't a faster or easier way to offer you immediate help but when it comes to fish keeping a lot of information is needed to sort out issues and resolve them safely. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > I am losing the last of my bumble bee's. It seems that the platys I chose have a short life expectancy. They last a year at the most and bottom line is - I'm getting rather tired of replacing them. > > I looked on-line and was happy to see my plecostomus should be around for a while. :) So with that in mind, what recommendations do you have for peaceful, colorful companion fish that are easy to care for and will still be around a little longer then my platys. I have a 10 gallon tank but would like to up-grade. > RaChell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53696	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: chain stores

Most of fish in my 2 aquariums and my outside pond have come from Walmart and I have been very happy with them. Each store varies, one Walmart store let their tanks have numerous dead fish. But, I have been to private stores that even had just remains of dead fish they didn't bother to clean out. I only buy from tanks with no sick or dead fish no matter where I happen to be shopping that day, Rose http://redbarnfarm.net/ http://stores.ebay.com/Red-Barn-Farm-Spin-Weave-Knit http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=33471

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53697	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Hi Rob, My reasoning for hostility towards starter kits is because in the UK a starter kit for Goldfish consists of an unfiltered 4 gallon plastic tank. John<o)))< On 17 June 2012 15:28, Rob Mazur <rpmazur@...> wrote: > ** > > > First of all, I didn't mean to offend anybody. I am on a few other boards > and personal experiences with the chain stores has been less than stellar. > I also research a lot before making a significant purchase and a lot of the > reviews of the Petsmarts/Cos haven't been supportive. Now I realize that > not all stores are the same and there are some that do actually know what > they are talking about. > > 6 years ago I bought a Betta from Petsmart and he lasted 4 years, above the > norm and the guy there was helpful. In my humble opinion, I feel that a > store dedicated to tropical fish (or fish of any type) will tend to have > the information readily available. I've always been a "Mom and Pop" store > shopper when possible. Again, didn't mean to offend anybody and I realize > that I made a generalized, blanket statement and I also realize that I > can't believe everything I hear/read, but I do take that into > consideration. > > John -- what's the reason for staying away from a starter kit? > > Thanks again > > Rob > > -- > http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ > http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ > ------ > Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against > you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." > --Luke 15:21 > > But the voice of truth tells me a different story > The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' > The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' > Out of all the voices calling out to me > I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth > --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > --James A. Lovell > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53698	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Re: Trimming plants?

Hi John, I try to add a photo soon. It has long leaves that have light green (yellowish)/darker green stripes from the bottom to the top. I think that is why they called it Gold Ribbon. I bought it at Petco in the snail-free container and the name was printed on the container. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Nora, can you post a photo or a link showing the Gold Ribbon plant? I've > never heard that name either but there are so many different names for the > same plant that it is probably common if we saw it. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 13 June 2012 17:36, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hello, Nora. > > > > You mentioned trimming your plants from the roots? The only time I > > remember giving info about cutting plants roots, along with other > > members....Donna and Amber come to mind, is when initially putting the > > plants in the tank. For plants that are growing well, I DO NOT recommend > > pulling them up to trim the roots. If you are just wanting to trim the > > plants, such as cabomba, wisteria, and pennywort just trim the stems. As a > > matter of fact, the stems can be replanted to start more plants. > > > > Plants like the Argentine sword plant and such, I would just trim the > > leaves. Take off old decaying leaves, etc. > > > > Now, if you are talking about taking the plants out of the aquarium > > because you want to put them elswhere, then I would go through the process > > of trimming roots, etc. when replanting them. > > > > If you are talking about dividing the plants that is another thing all > > together. You can try it, but be aware it is an experiment and you may lose > > the plant until you get the hang of it. It takes a bit of experience, but > > as we all know, there is only one way to get that. > > > > As for Gold Ribbon plant, I am at a loss. I never heard of it so I can not > > offer any advise. Maybe I know it by another name.(?) > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53699	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: filter stop, bacteria ok?

Hi, I have a question regarding the survival of the beneficial bacteria in filter media. As I understood the bacteria thrive better in the filter because of the constant O2 throughput with the flowing water. Today our filter stopped for a while (I think it was congested) and now it works again. If the bacteria were on air for hours, are they still ok? Do they need water or O2 mainly? Does anybody know how fast a change of conditions changes the status of a tank regarding "being cycled"? I think our tank is still ok since probably most of our bacteria sit in the gravel etc. but I wonder generally how fast they can be affected. Thanks for your thoughts/experience! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53700	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 6/17/2012
Subject: Adding CO2 in tank - best method?

Hi again, I have two methods of adding CO2 in our 2 aquariums and I wonder which or what else is better? One system has tablets that are dissolved in an extra container in water, a hose transports the CO2 into a container that rests upside down (the opening is on the bottom) in the aquarium water. This container is filled with the gas that dissolves slowly over hours into the aquarium water (one can see how the water slowly fills this container up again). Only yesterday it happens, that some foam was transported over the hose into the aquarium container and now I still have some residual foam floating on the water. I wonder what it might be (I did already a partial water change)? The other method: I bought a CO2 booster-bottle that contains a liquid that goes directly into the aquarium water every day (1 ml for our 10G). I am not familiar with the chemicals involved in the liquid or the tablets. Is there a better method or are there any dangers? Thanks for advice! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53701	From: Neener	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

I have to say that I have had a great experience with my local Petsmart.  That is the only place I will buy fish in my area.  The tanks are always clean and the fish always look healthy. I have also gotten a 55 gallon starter tank which I have had stocked with Petsmart fish for about 1 1/2 years and they are the same fish I started with and some came from my 29 gallon that I switched from.  So to answer your question about a starter tank, yes it works and will last just as long as buying the more expensive parts indiviually.  In my opinion it is a better value if you are looking to have simple tropicals that don't need a lot.  Also, I would reccomend that you first go in and talk to the manager of your Petsmart and take a good look at the tanks.  Ask if they quarantine and pull out diseased ones.  That would be the only way to know if your particular branch is going to be a good source of fish.  Hope this helps you out, and don't judge the chain stores.  Just because you get bad advice from one branch, doesn't mean the company as a whole is bad. Just try a different location.   Jannine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53702	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: filter stop, bacteria ok?

Nora watch your water parameters closely for at least a week to see how they change. You might see a mini-cycle from most of the bacteria in your filter being dead (from no water). They need water movement, so stagnant water will also kill off the bacteria (if it sits for a few hours with no new water flowing in/out). It should even itself back out within a week or two (depending on how much of the beneficial bacteria you lost). Amber On 6/17/2012 8:18 PM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question regarding the survival of the beneficial bacteria in > filter media. As I understood the bacteria thrive better in the filter > because of the constant O2 throughput with the flowing water. > Today our filter stopped for a while (I think it was congested) and > now it works again. If the bacteria were on air for hours, are they > still ok? Do they need water or O2 mainly? > > Does anybody know how fast a change of conditions changes the status > of a tank regarding "being cycled"? > > I think our tank is still ok since probably most of our bacteria sit > in the gravel etc. but I wonder generally how fast they can be affected. > > Thanks for your thoughts/experience! > Nora > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53703	From: Noura T.	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

It's a small tank, 6 gallons. I usually do 50% changes every week, but this last month I had guests in my house and the tanks were not properly maintained. But after examining the information I provided, why do you think my plants are decaying? I'm sure a nitrate spike won't do that.. Is it the heat? (up to 32C today).. Thanks, Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53694;_ylc=X3oDMTJycGhpdm 9yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNj k0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzNDAwMTgzODg-> Re: My Plants Posted by: "SIMMONDS JOHN" simmonds.john@... <mailto:simmonds.john@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20My%20Plants> mrbushy2003 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrbushy2003> Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:35 am (PDT) You need to keep on top of your water quality Noura, how often do you change the water & how much do you change each time? John*<o)))< * On 16 June 2012 21:58, Noura T. <n-taweel@... <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > ** > > > Hi, > > As for the light, I rarely turn on the light bulb on this tank (6 gallons) > because it's right near the west window but no direct sunlight reaches the > tank for more than one hour aday. It's been that way for over 3 years, > summer and winter, and the same plants were doing great. > > I must say that the temperature in all my tanks rose dramatically this week > due to a summer heat attack, especially in this tank. It was around 86.6, > and this week it's about 89.6. It has just occurred to me that this might > be > the answer. > > Parameters today: > > PH 8 (it's always this high , alkaline tap water) > > Nitrite 0 > > Ammonia 0.25 > > Nitrate 80 "ouch!" > > I did a 50% PWC immediately and the Ammonia dropped to 0, Nitrates to 40. > I'll do another PWC in 12 hours. > > Thanks, > > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53704	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: My Plants

Heat can cause plants to die off. Amber On 6/18/2012 3:28 AM, Noura T. wrote: > > It's a small tank, 6 gallons. > > I usually do 50% changes every week, but this last month I had guests > in my > house and the tanks were not properly maintained. > > But after examining the information I provided, why do you think my plants > are decaying? I'm sure a nitrate spike won't do that.. Is it the heat? (up > to 32C today).. > > Thanks, > > Noura > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53694;_ylc=X3oDMTJycGhpdm > 9yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzNj > k0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzNDAwMTgzODg-> Re: My Plants > > Posted by: "SIMMONDS JOHN" simmonds.john@... > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com> > <mailto:simmonds.john@... > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com>?Subject=%20Re%3A%20My%20Plants> > mrbushy2003 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrbushy2003> > > Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:35 am (PDT) > > You need to keep on top of your water quality Noura, how often do you > change the water & how much do you change each time? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 June 2012 21:58, Noura T. <n-taweel@... > <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > <mailto:n-taweel%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi, > > > > As for the light, I rarely turn on the light bulb on this tank (6 > gallons) > > because it's right near the west window but no direct sunlight > reaches the > > tank for more than one hour aday. It's been that way for over 3 years, > > summer and winter, and the same plants were doing great. > > > > I must say that the temperature in all my tanks rose dramatically this > week > > due to a summer heat attack, especially in this tank. It was around > 86.6, > > and this week it's about 89.6. It has just occurred to me that this > might > > be > > the answer. > > > > Parameters today: > > > > PH 8 (it's always this high , alkaline tap water) > > > > Nitrite 0 > > > > Ammonia 0.25 > > > > Nitrate 80 "ouch!" > > > > I did a 50% PWC immediately and the Ammonia dropped to 0, Nitrates > to 40. > > I'll do another PWC in 12 hours. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53705	From: freedom2m0soe	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, any tips!

Hello AL, My name is Raymond and I am in the process of gathering the equipment required to have a marine environment. 1) Set-Up advice: Having looked at several sites for advice, I am confused a wee bit about using the filter media in an external canister filter. Store advice is to leave the standard media out and let the live rock do the work of filtering. 2) The Aquarium - Interpet FishBox 40 (cm) Capacity 48 Litre I also have the stand to match. It was used for tropical fish recently, and has had the gravel removed and the inside wiped clean. 3) Substrate How to rinse? I have 2 x 4Kg of 1mm coral sand, which one website said to wash in a colander! I don't think so, but what is the best way to wash the coral sand prior to placing in the Aquarium? 4) Saltwater (Store Purchased) I have 14L so far and have been advised that 35L in total should be sufficient allowing for displacement by the cured live rock. 5) External Canister 1000 Litre Per Hour. Filter Media or no? I believe that this is a wee bit over requirement, but will be handy when a larger aquarium is in place. I have been advised to not put the filter media in the trays, is this a good idea? 6) Heater. I already have a Interpet Suction Pad model in place which worked well with the Tropical set up. 7) Hydrometer. I would like to get one even though the water is re-mixed. 8) Test Kit I have one on my Amazon wish list to order soon. Have I forgotten anything? Concise and plain advice much appreciated. Thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53706	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Hi Jannine, I guess I got my wires crossed with the different terminology between the US & the UK. In the UK a starter tank is a tiny affair no bigger than a bowl that I would not even keep snails in, your 55 gallon starter tank sounds excellent! John*<o)))< * On 18 June 2012 14:30, Neener <rockgoddess8182@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have to say that I have had a great experience with my local Petsmart. > That is the only place I will buy fish in my area. The tanks are always > clean and the fish always look healthy. I have also gotten a 55 gallon > starter tank which I have had stocked with Petsmart fish for about 1 1/2 > years and they are the same fish I started with and some came from my 29 > gallon that I switched from. So to answer your question about a starter > tank, yes it works and will last just as long as buying the more expensive > parts indiviually. In my opinion it is a better value if you are looking > to have simple tropicals that don't need a lot. Also, I would reccomend > that you first go in and talk to the manager of your Petsmart and take a > good look at the tanks. Ask if they quarantine and pull out diseased > ones. That would be the only way to know if your particular branch is > going to be a good source of fish. Hope this helps you out, and don't > judge the chain > stores. Just because you get bad advice from one branch, doesn't mean the > company as a whole is bad. Just try a different location. > > Jannine > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53707	From: Denise Monroe	Date: 6/18/2012
Subject: Re: Returning to the tank

Thank you! Denise   "I feel more comfortable with gorillas than people. I can anticipate what a gorilla's going to do, and they're purely motivated."    Dian Fossey ________________________________ From: Neener <rockgoddess8182@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:30 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Returning to the tank   I have to say that I have had a great experience with my local Petsmart.  That is the only place I will buy fish in my area.  The tanks are always clean and the fish always look healthy. I have also gotten a 55 gallon starter tank which I have had stocked with Petsmart fish for about 1 1/2 years and they are the same fish I started with and some came from my 29 gallon that I switched from.  So to answer your question about a starter tank, yes it works and will last just as long as buying the more expensive parts indiviually.  In my opinion it is a better value if you are looking to have simple tropicals that don't need a lot.  Also, I would reccomend that you first go in and talk to the manager of your Petsmart and take a good look at the tanks.  Ask if they quarantine and pull out diseased ones.  That would be the only way to know if your particular branch is going to be a good source of fish.  Hope this helps you out, and don't judge the chain stores.  Just because you get bad advice from one branch, doesn't mean the company as a whole is bad. Just try a different location.   Jannine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53708	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: Re: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, any tips!

Hello Raymond and welcome to the saltwater hobby! I will do all I can to help guide you through the process and will try to make it as easy to understand as possible. I encourage you to continue to ask questions throughout the process, as understanding the environment and the animals is essential to success. It sounds as if you have a good start, however, I will need to ask some questions as I work through explaining and answering your list of questions for you. My first question is what animals are you hoping to keep in this tank? 48 liters works out to about 12.5 gallons, which is called a "nano tank" and not suitable for much other than corals, a few inverts (such as a few hermit crabs, 1 shrimp and maybe a small shrimp goby). A healthy tank is going to grow quickly and space is going to become an issue before you know it (in a matter of months) so it's advisable to talk to your local pet store to find out if they will take excess coral frags from you regularly. Once you can give me an idea of what animals/corals you intend to keep I can then also prep you for what will be needed to propagate the corals without killing them. You should also be aware that the smaller the tank the harder it's going to be to care for, the more work it will be to maintain. The smaller the tank and water volume the faster the rate of fluctuation, which can leave for some major (and expensive) issues if you are not doing daily maintenance. Can you clarify for me what type of substrate you have? There are 2 options to work with in saltwater... crushed coral and aragonite sand. Your term "coral sand" has me unsure of which of these 2 substrates you have purchased. Aragonite sand also comes in 2 forms... live sand (which is wet inside the bag) and dry sand. I will need to know which of those you have if you do indeed have the sand. How you prepare the substrate differs according to what type it is. Wet/live sand should not be rinsed, as that will destroy the bacteria and other "critters" (micro organisms) that live in it, which defeats the purpose of spending the extra money to use it. This is the best approach to starting a new nano tank, as I would not suggest the crushed coral for such a situation. The animals that can live in this size of a tank will require sand instead of the larger, rougher, sharper, crushed coral. Your approach to the filter and media should be determined based on what animals you wish to keep. Saltwater is a much more exact science than freshwater, which leaves less room for error and also means that the animals have much stricter requirements for their environment. Live rock is the most efficient and effective form of filtration for a reef tank, which I am assuming this is planned to be due to what can fit into it. There are other options such as floss media and sponge media that can also be helpful, but again this will be determined once we know what animals are planned to go into this tank. It's good that you already have purchased your saltwater, however, I would like to add that you will want to make sure you always have at least a 1/2 tank's worth of spare saltwater on hand for water changes each week and also a constant supply of freshwater in the form of RO/DI water (never use tap water in a marine tank). What water will be needed on a daily basis will depend on evaporation rates as well as waste levels. Water changes should be done with saltwater, where water is removed from the tank and replaced. Top offs from evaporation should be done with freshwater so as to maintain a steady salinity level. Top off's will always be needed in a marine tank to some degree or you will need to alter the salinity of the saltwater for each change according to the current need. Keeping a stable salinity level is probably the hardest part of keeping a nano tank, especially if you have heavy evaporation levels. Small tanks tend to evaporate very quickly and you can lose a lot of water each day, which alters salinity. (water evaporates, salt does not) A constant or drastic change in salinity will cause a lot of problems in keeping the animals alive. You have mentioned a future larger tank... do you have any idea of how much larger this new tank will be and how long into the future before you intend to purchase it? Planning ahead will help to ensure your success in this hobby. You will also want to invest in a quarantine tank. While this is important in both fresh and saltwater situations, for saltwater it is vital. The large majority of saltwater animals are still being wild caught, which means a much wider range of disease, illness, parasites, etc. that get introduced with any new addition. Because in aquarium keeping most people mix animals (from corals to fish) that come from different areas of the world, that means the animals are more prone to contracting illness they have no personal immunity to defend against. ALL saltwater animals should spend at least 3 wks in quarantine before being introduced to an established tank... so everything beyond the very first animal should go into quarantine to protect your main tank. Medications in saltwater tanks are also much more difficult to use/prescribe and the animals are much more sensitive to any medication. Inverts, from corals to shrimp, crabs, snails, etc. are very intolerant of any medication and should never be exposed. Live rock in a tank will absorb most medications and retain them after treatment is complete, which poses a huge risk to any invert or sensitive fish in the tank thereafter. All medicating should be done in quarantine. Having a hyrdometer is a necessity even if you purchase your saltwater from the pet store. You will need to check your salinity via hydrometer anytime you have evaporation, anytime you add water to the tank. That is the only way you will have to know what the salinity needs to be of the water you are adding, and as mentioned previously, this will change on an almost daily basis in such a small tank. I'm not familiar with the type of heater you have mentioned, but the pad type heaters are not new to me overall. You will need to be sure the heater does not come into contact with the rock or the substrate. Ideally, for tropical saltwater animals, temperature of 76 degrees is going to be best. Avoid cold water animals unless you intend and have the ability to hook up a chiller to your tank, as keeping the water cold enough for them at all times can be quite challenging, since it is colder than comfortable room temperature for humans. Chillers are not only expensive to purchase but they can be quite expensive to run (they are hard on the electric bill). It's good to see you already have a test kit ordered. I am hoping it is a liquid test kit designed for saltwater? The tests you should always have on hand are ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and calcium. You may also want to check with your local pet store to see if they can do periodic checks for you on iodine, magnesium, and phosphates as well. These are essential for healthy corals and the only way to know if you have a proper balance is to test the water in the tank. Phosphates should always read at 0, and if any trace of it shows up on a test then a phosphate remover should be used. Phosphates will make a mess of any saltwater tank in a hurry. The other comments I can offer you in regards to setting up your new tank are these... 1. this is the most important... patience! A saltwater tank is not something that can be thrown together quickly and it takes much longer to cycle than a freshwater tank. Expect 6 - 8 wks minimum for cycling, even in such a small tank. No animals should be added until the cycle is complete and the tank is stable for at least another week afterwards. A saltwater tank should be cycled using the substrate and live rock only. Adding all of the live rock at once will slightly shorten the time it takes to cycle the tank. Anytime live rock is moved from one environment to another, even if they are set up identical to each other, there will be some level of "die off" from the rock, which will increase ammonia levels for a period of time until the bacteria catch up and have the ability to completely break it down to nitrate. 2. When it is time to add animals start with your clean up crew... ie. hermit crabs and snails. Give the clean up crew at least 2 wks to settle into the tank and show they are thriving before adding the next animal. Beyond the clean up crew, add only 1 animal at a time, be it coral, invert, or fish. The size of your tank will not allow for too much of an increase in waste load at a time without causing harm. 3. Do your research! Any coral, any crab, any shrimp, anything at all that you desire to put into your tank, be sure you know what it is, what it's requirements are, what it eats, what it will grow into, and what it is compatible with. Also check thoroughly into each animal's wild habitat, since that will help to dictate what environment it needs in your tank. Not all corals can be housed together in the same tank, and most especially in a nano tank. There are a great many coral species that are aggressive and will wage chemical warfare against each other if they are too close. The sweeper tentacles of some corals can span a much larger tank than you have, thus they have the ability to sting each other to kill off the other coral, which can wipe out an entire tank quickly (overnight). Lastly, ask a lot of questions every step of the way. Don't rely on guess work, as that gets very expensive in replacing dead animals. The only stupid question is the one someone doesn't ask. I have 20 yrs of experience in saltwater and my husband is an aquatic biologist who specializes in saltwater. My smallest successful nano tank was 2 1/2 gallons and my largest saltwater tank has been over 200 gallons. I have worked in the industry for 20 yrs, so you will be hard pressed to find a question that I or my husband can't answer for you... between us we have experience with almost every animal you can find in the hobby. I currently have a 75 gallon reef tank and a 29 gallon reef/frag tank running and have plans for a 65 gallon saltwater tank sometime in the near future (as soon as I can find space for it). Once again, welcome to the hobby. Please don't let this information scare you, but rather use it to help keep you and your animals safe from the start. This is not a "hard" hobby, but it is more complicated and takes more time than freshwater. I look forward to helping you further and seeing photos of your success! :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "freedom2m0soe" <raymondgbaxter@...> wrote: > > Hello AL, > My name is Raymond and I am in the process of gathering the equipment required > to have a marine environment. > > 1) Set-Up advice: > Having looked at several sites for advice, I am confused a wee bit about using > the filter media in an external canister filter. > Store advice is to leave the standard media out and let the live rock do the > work of filtering. > > 2) The Aquarium - Interpet FishBox 40 (cm) Capacity 48 Litre > I also have the stand to match. It was used for tropical fish recently, and has > had the gravel removed and the inside wiped clean. > > 3) Substrate How to rinse? > I have 2 x 4Kg of 1mm coral sand, which one website said to wash in a colander! > I don't think so, but what is the best way to wash the coral sand prior to > placing in the Aquarium? > > 4) Saltwater (Store Purchased) > I have 14L so far and have been advised that 35L in total should be sufficient > allowing for displacement by the cured live rock. > > 5) External Canister 1000 Litre Per Hour. Filter Media or no? > I believe that this is a wee bit over requirement, but will be handy when a > larger aquarium is in place. I have been advised to not put the filter media in > the trays, is this a good idea? > > 6) Heater. > I already have a Interpet Suction Pad model in place which worked well with the > Tropical set up. > > 7) Hydrometer. > I would like to get one even though the water is re-mixed. > > 8) Test Kit > I have one on my Amazon wish list to order soon. > > Have I forgotten anything? Concise and plain advice much appreciated. Thank you >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53709	From: freedom2m0soe	Date: 6/19/2012
Subject: New to group and to Saltwater Set Up, thank you Dawn.

Fish Stock Wish List I was planning to keep a Clownfish & a Tang? (Dorian) a few small hermit crabs to clean the 1mm coral sand (I have 6kg in the aquarium) sloping up to the rear edge. My local aquarium supplier, if I may mention them is Dobbies, a UK store brand name who have said that this would be the limit for the Interpet Fish Box 40. Here is a link to the item: http://www.petsathome.com/shop/fish-box-40cm-tank-by-interpet-(available-in-store-only)-36859 I am aware that small aquariums are more work than larger ones, but I appreciate you leaving no ¡¥substrate¡¦ unturned. ƒº LOL Substrate is 1mm Coral Sand from Dobbies store, it¡¦s dry, well it was in the sack cloth bag it came in! ƒº LOL Filter is a 1000 litre per hour external filter with the Bio-Balls, & Ceramic media in place so far. I had been advised NOT to add the ¡¥foam¡¦ media as that will keep the bacteria which I understand that marine fish do not like! I also have carbon media, again not yet added. Rock I do have 1.5Kg of live and another 3Kg on order as they have a delivery soon, and need to ¡¥cure¡¦ it afore selling. Salt Water I now have 36 litres in the aquarium, the 22 litres that I bought yesterday I bought as RO water only, adding Sea Salt separately mixed as per the pack information. Mind you, I don¡¦t know how much salt was in the pre-mixed solution (the initial 14 litres) and therefore am waiting to see tomorrow the true reading, and adjust accordingly. Currently the SG is reading ¡¥high¡¦ but as the manufacturer states it requires soaking in salt water for 48 hours before taking an accurate reading. The Heater is an Interpet brand Delta Therm 100 watt, the same brand as the aquarium. It worked well with the tropical set-up for over 6 months. SUMMARY: That¡¦s about it so far, I should mention I cleaned the aquarium with saltwater, and wiped it dry before adding the above items. As I type this on the morning of Wednesday 20th the aquarium is very cloudy at just 8 hours running, but is gradually clearing. I can see the live rock and the external filter pipe work a wee bit now! You mention that water evaporates but salt does not, I did not know that! I may have to just add RO only water once I can check the SG in a day or so. My water level is about 2 ¡V 3 inches from the plastic lip of the top frame. I have been advised that there should be at least an inch from that lip down to the water level, is this so? What is DI, is that short for distilled? I will be ordering the test kit shortly; it is on my Amazon.co.uk Aquarium wish list for now. Replying to your comments: 1. Indeed, patience is a virtue, I¡¦ll see if Amazon.co.uk sells that! ƒº 2. Clean up crew sounds like a good plan. 3. Yes I will do that, no doubt you have advice on requirements for any of the species mentioned above. I have a feeling that you¡¦ll not be impressed with the quantity of my wife¡¦s choice of stock. I asked the ¡¥expert¡¦s before I bought all this additional equipment. I asked if I could ¡¥squeeze¡¦ in a small Starfish, but the look on their faces told me NO! Save that for the next, and larger aquarium then. I almost forgot to add that I have a 22 litre tank as a spare, it has a Interpet PF Mini filter, but currently no heater for it as yet, so could that act as the Q-aquarium? I have a couple of Kg of the coral dry sand spare for now.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53710	From: Kiersten M	Date: 6/26/2012
Subject: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Hello, my name is kiersten. Bit about me, iv got a 10 month old son named urijah, 2 dogs - Debo n ninja, a cat-felix, 2coati mundis- Bobo n nutmeg, and my fish tank. Its a 29 gal I just got Friday. I upgraded from a 10. All I have is plattys! N snails I can't get rid of... I'm going for a natural look. Iv got pebbles in there n fake plants n one thing of real grass. No idea what it is. Jst bought it from Walmart. Iv had it for 3 months n no issues. I'm wanting to put drift wood in there once I find a piece I like. Also got some flat rocks that I want to help support the drift wood. As far as plants go, I'm going to get more of the grass stuff for the babies. Iv got 2 females about to pop n it makes a great hideout for them. I am wanting to add some color in there. Is there a plant with defined leaves that are not too big but not too small? N moss n fern is what I'm wanting to plant around my rock/wood area. But just worried the moss will over run my tank. N the light is ALWAYS on because the tank is next to my sons crib. Iv never had any trouble with it. I shut it off maybe 10 hrs total a week? Its got gravel in it too. Would plants be able to root n grow? I'm not sure how it works bit the grass came in a little pot. I just left it in there. N if I plant them in there will I be able to rearrange my tank? N my last question... how or what can I use to get rid of the snails... they're everywhere n I can't get them out. Iv been giving them away in bags full of up to 25 snails. N I'm constantly picking them out of my filter.... but that's all for now. Thank u for reading, any help is greatly appreciated. =) Iv looked on line, but I seem to keep finding repetitive info n normally trying to get me to buy stuff instead of informing me on it. N ill also need a pointer or two on trimming them. Iv also seen little "bushy" grass plants n love them. Just gota figure out what its called. Lol

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53711	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Welcome to the group Kiersten :) You'll have trouble with plants that are not green unless you use CO2 injection of some sort, because anything that is red/pink/purple/etc requires a lot of nutrients. You'll want to stick to the green varieties for the most part, unless you want to mess with CO2. Also you'll have to soak the driftwood if it's dry, and that could take a long time before it no longer floats (I have one that's been in the tank weighted down for over a year and it will still float if the rocks fall of it), so make sure you secure it down really well in your tank. You might like anubias nana, it grows slowly so it won't take over your tank and it has small little oval shaped leaves, I think it's really pretty myself, and you can tie it to the driftwood or even rocks and it will grow just fine that way, doesn't have to be in the gravel. If you want to be able to easily rearrange your decorations during cleaning and such it's easier if you plant the plants into either little jars or terra cotta pots. I put soil in the pots, then plant the plant and cover the top with gravel so that the fish don't stir up the soil. As far as the snails there's no easy way to get rid of them that I know of. I'm constantly picking snails out of my filter and tanks as well, so I know how you feel. I have purchased Assassin snails (they eat other snails but are harmless to fish), and they do an okay job of keeping the snails under control in my 10 gallon tank, but they reproduce slowly so they can get easily out numbered by pest snails. Amber On 6/26/2012 10:37 PM, Kiersten M wrote: > > Hello, my name is kiersten. > Bit about me, iv got a 10 month old son named urijah, 2 dogs - Debo n > ninja, a cat-felix, 2coati mundis- Bobo n nutmeg, and my fish tank. > > Its a 29 gal I just got Friday. I upgraded from a 10. All I have is > plattys! N snails I can't get rid of... I'm going for a natural look. > Iv got pebbles in there n fake plants n one thing of real grass. No > idea what it is. Jst bought it from Walmart. Iv had it for 3 months n > no issues. I'm wanting to put drift wood in there once I find a piece > I like. Also got some flat rocks that I want to help support the drift > wood. As far as plants go, I'm going to get more of the grass stuff > for the babies. Iv got 2 females about to pop n it makes a great > hideout for them. I am wanting to add some color in there. Is there a > plant with defined leaves that are not too big but not too small? N > moss n fern is what I'm wanting to plant around my rock/wood area. But > just worried the moss will over run my tank. N the light is ALWAYS on > because the tank is next to my sons crib. Iv never had any trouble > with it. I shut it off maybe 10 hrs total a week? > > Its got gravel in it too. Would plants be able to root n grow? I'm not > sure how it works bit the grass came in a little pot. I just left it > in there. N if I plant them in there will I be able to rearrange my > tank? N my last question... how or what can I use to get rid of the > snails... they're everywhere n I can't get them out. Iv been giving > them away in bags full of up to 25 snails. N I'm constantly picking > them out of my filter.... but that's all for now. Thank u for reading, > any help is greatly appreciated. =) > > Iv looked on line, but I seem to keep finding repetitive info n > normally trying to get me to buy stuff instead of informing me on it. > N ill also need a pointer or two on trimming them. Iv also seen little > "bushy" grass plants n love them. Just gota figure out what its > called. Lol > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53712	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/27/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Hi Kiersten, Welcome to the group. I think setting plants in clay pots is a wonderful idea & so much easier to manage that planting them directly into the substrate which in many cases is a hobby in itself. In addition to simply using soil as Amber suggested, there are plenty of aquatic potting compounds available for just that purpose, the one I use is called TetraPlant Compleat Substrate. I have used it for years in my clay pots & have never had any problems except for my fish digging in it because it is sandy & fine so now I just cover the top of the planters with marbles or gravel to keep them out. John*<o)))< * On 27 June 2012 15:29, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > Welcome to the group Kiersten :) > > You'll have trouble with plants that are not green unless you use CO2 > injection of some sort, because anything that is red/pink/purple/etc > requires a lot of nutrients. You'll want to stick to the green varieties > for the most part, unless you want to mess with CO2. Also you'll have to > soak the driftwood if it's dry, and that could take a long time before > it no longer floats (I have one that's been in the tank weighted down > for over a year and it will still float if the rocks fall of it), so > make sure you secure it down really well in your tank. You might like > anubias nana, it grows slowly so it won't take over your tank and it has > small little oval shaped leaves, I think it's really pretty myself, and > you can tie it to the driftwood or even rocks and it will grow just fine > that way, doesn't have to be in the gravel. > If you want to be able to easily rearrange your decorations during > cleaning and such it's easier if you plant the plants into either little > jars or terra cotta pots. I put soil in the pots, then plant the plant > and cover the top with gravel so that the fish don't stir up the soil. > As far as the snails there's no easy way to get rid of them that I know > of. I'm constantly picking snails out of my filter and tanks as well, so > I know how you feel. I have purchased Assassin snails (they eat other > snails but are harmless to fish), and they do an okay job of keeping the > snails under control in my 10 gallon tank, but they reproduce slowly so > they can get easily out numbered by pest snails. > > Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53713	From: Kiersten	Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Thank u very much =) I finally found a link with a picture and info n looked that plant up n it is pretty. N ya, definatly not wanting to mess with all the other technical stuff yet. Not ready for it. Lol. But if I can master the plain simple stuff then ill move up to the colored plants. But when that time comes ill be asking away again. N thanks for the drift wood tip. Lol Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53714	From: 'Dick Houston'	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Greetings Kiersten, Where are you located. I am in the process of resetting some of my tanks and have a lot of dwarf Sagittaria. I’ll be glad to share a lot of it with you for just the cost of shipping. Email me and let’s see how I can help. A servant of the Christ, Dick Houston houston@... From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kiersten Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=) Thank u very much =) I finally found a link with a picture and info n looked that plant up n it is pretty. N ya, definatly not wanting to mess with all the other technical stuff yet. Not ready for it. Lol. But if I can master the plain simple stuff then ill move up to the colored plants. But when that time comes ill be asking away again. N thanks for the drift wood tip. Lol Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53715	From: Kiersten	Date: 6/30/2012
Subject: Re: NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=)

Thank you very much! Ill definatly use them. Lol. Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone 'Dick Houston' <houston@...> wrote: >Greetings Kiersten, >Where are you located. I am in the process of resetting some of my tanks and have a lot of dwarf Sagittaria. I’ll be glad to share a lot of it with you for just the cost of shipping. Email me and let’s see how I can help. > >A servant of the Christ, > >Dick Houston >houston@... > > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kiersten >Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:26 PM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] NEWBIE at planted tank. info plz=) > > >Thank u very much =) I finally found a link with a picture and info n looked that plant up n it is pretty. N ya, definatly not wanting to mess with all the other technical stuff yet. Not ready for it. Lol. But if I can master the plain simple stuff then ill move up to the colored plants. > >But when that time comes ill be asking away again. N thanks for the drift wood tip. Lol > >Kiersten >Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53716	From: Kiersten M	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n I couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of drift wood. Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of a muddy river bank with very very still moving water. Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. Iv read on at least 15 links to scrub it with a brush, then boil it(although it wont fit in a pot that I have because its "branchy") so the next best thing I see is to add boiling water to a 5 gal bucket with the wood in it - wait to cool- rinse and repeat a few times, and then let it soak in clean water for a week chaining the water until I notice a decrease of tannin in the water. It said to soak it with a dechlorinating agent. Are there any that work better or are preferred over others? I'm just a bit worried I wont get it clean enough n I kill my tank n have to start aaaalllllll over again. I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome rock to go with the drift wood and iv got it soaking in water with a bit of vinegar but its going to get at lease a week of soaking and scrubbing before it goes in my tank. Iv searched everywhere for "that piece" to add to it, but I haven't found it on line or in my pet stores. Send me to the river for 20 minutes n I'm one happy camper. Haa. Thank u guys very much. As I said, I'm a total newbie here. So I'm very thankful for ur advice and patience with me. Lol Kiersten

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53717	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kiersten M" wrote: > Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n >I couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of >drift wood. Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of >a muddy river bank with very very still moving water. > Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. >  I'm just a bit worried I wont get it clean enough n I kill my tank > n have to start aaaalllllll over again.   > I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome > rock to go with the drift wood Hi, I tend to be a DIY kind of person when it comes to "nature picks" going into my tanks. This includes wood, rocks, plants, and snails. Some people feel you should only be putting stuff you get at the pet store in your tanks, which is fine, but I don't think this should be a hard and fast rule as some would have you believe. After all, I have seen some pet store stock that is simply dreadful. All of your suggestions are fine for the various ways you might clean up something like a piece of water logged wood, so you can pick and choose those that you feel most comfortable with. I will just say my own experience has been to simply take something from a local river that I know to be "clean" and simply brush off the loose bits of mud and stuff, rinse well and put it in a tank. HOWEVER, I should note that usually I am adding these to a tank with NOT prized fish, so common barbs or whatever. In other words, I wouldn't do this if you have a tank full of $60 each discus fish. Generally tanks I do this with the grand total of fish value in the tank would be pricey if they reached $60.  ;) Usually the most common issues you will encounter are things like snails and aquatic insects. Most insects are harmless and the fish will usually pick them off in short order, however one that could be a problem are dragon fly larva which are predatory and can pick off small fish. However they are fascinating in their own right. Snails can be a problem depending on your personal opinion of them in your tanks plus what fish you have (e.g. a tank with loaches will not develop a snail problem.   Other things you could bring in the tank could include ich or things like hydra, although in my opinion, you run a greater risk of these from store stock (despite people's thinking that store stock is safer). A final thought. People do not bat an eye when keepers of reef tanks add "live rock" to their tanks. This is a normal part of their hobby. Why should freshwater be any different? Pioneers in the hobby like Innes did it this way as they often didn't have a lot of other choices in the early days. So go with your gut and your comfort level of risk. If you want to mostly add these straight to the tank as is, more power to you. If you want to boil the crud out of them or soak them in bleach for a week, well more power to you again.  ;)  They are YOUR tanks, so you are free to enjoy them in any way you wish. Regards, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53718	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

I do NOT suggest you put that wood into your tank. Aside from tannins there are fungus, bacteria, parasites, and pollution to worry about, and soaking it in boiling water or baking it in an oven for a few hours is not going to rid you of all of the things that could be contaminating that piece of wood and could quickly cause some major problems in your tank. Insects and parasites can lay eggs inside of the wood. These "bugs" can lie dormant for a long time until conditions are just right and then suddenly hatch, infesting your tank and quite possibly your fish. The same thing applies to fungus spores. Aside from those things there are a lot of different forms of pollution that you simply can't remove by boiling and baking. Pet supply manufacturers that sell wood have special equipment to help sterilize the pieces of wood they collect and they also have specific places they collect it from, which cuts down on the risk, however, it does not guarantee that any piece of wood bought from a pet supply store is safe from all of the above mentioned things. Whenever you put any piece of wood into your tank there is some risk involved. Collecting your own from a lake, stream, river, etc. only increases that risk by 10 fold. I have seen many people over the years wipe out their expensive and beloved tanks by adding a piece of drift wood they picked up outdoors. In regards to the rock you picked up... there is something I suggest you do besides the sterilizing and vinegar check. Get out your pH, KH, and GH test kits. After the rock is clean and free of the vinegar, soak that rock in a bucket of water taken from your aquarium and test it with each of those tests every couple of days for 2 wks to be sure it doesn't contain minerals that will alter the pH, KH, and/or GH of your water. This too can be quite harmful to your fish. When we pick up a rock and we clean it and do the vinegar test that allows us to see how safe it is on the surface, but we still have no idea what is contained inside. There is the possibility of any of a multitude of minerals and/or heavy metals that can be veined through that rock and can and will affect water chemistry in ways that can harm your fish/animals. Here again, I have seen many disastrous situations happen because someone skipped this step and added a rock picked up from outdoors to their tank. There are forms of pollution that also cannot be removed via vinegar and water conditioner, so please understand that in spite of all the testing, there is some level of risk involved, but these extra precautions lower that risk greatly. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kiersten M" <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > > Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n I couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of drift wood. Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of a muddy river bank with very very still moving water. Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. Iv read on at least 15 links to scrub it with a brush, then boil it(although it wont fit in a pot that I have because its "branchy") so the next best thing I see is to add boiling water to a 5 gal bucket with the wood in it - wait to cool- rinse and repeat a few times, and then let it soak in clean water for a week chaining the water until I notice a decrease of tannin in the water. It said to soak it with a dechlorinating agent. Are there any that work better or are preferred over others? I'm just a bit worried I wont get it clean enough n I kill my tank n have to start aaaalllllll over again. > > I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome rock to go with the drift wood and iv got it soaking in water with a bit of vinegar but its going to get at lease a week of soaking and scrubbing before it goes in my tank. Iv searched everywhere for "that piece" to add to it, but I haven't found it on line or in my pet stores. Send me to the river for 20 minutes n I'm one happy camper. Haa. > > Thank u guys very much. As I said, I'm a total newbie here. So I'm very thankful for ur advice and patience with me. Lol > Kiersten >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53719	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/2/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

Hi Kiersten, I would have to agree with Dawn regarding not adding anything alien to your tank but I also understand fully what Patrick is saying abut having choice because it is *your* tank. My viewpoint is to give my animals the best possible quality of life & that can often mean taking advice from people who know stuff I don't. I think the best way I can put it is to quote something a dear friend & fish keeper once told me & that was wild living aquatic animals are like street kids so they are virtually immune to almost everything nasty in their environment. Fish raised & sold as pets in stores or from breeders are completely different & have had a very sheltered existence so are not hardy or able to withstand anything like what their wild counterparts would cope with so adding wild decor can be a death sentence. Mixing & matching will only cause problems for you & your fish. John. On 2 July 2012 20:57, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: > ** > > > I do NOT suggest you put that wood into your tank. Aside from tannins > there are fungus, bacteria, parasites, and pollution to worry about, and > soaking it in boiling water or baking it in an oven for a few hours is not > going to rid you of all of the things that could be contaminating that > piece of wood and could quickly cause some major problems in your tank. > Insects and parasites can lay eggs inside of the wood. These "bugs" can > lie dormant for a long time until conditions are just right and then > suddenly hatch, infesting your tank and quite possibly your fish. The same > thing applies to fungus spores. > Aside from those things there are a lot of different forms of pollution > that you simply can't remove by boiling and baking. > > Pet supply manufacturers that sell wood have special equipment to help > sterilize the pieces of wood they collect and they also have specific > places they collect it from, which cuts down on the risk, however, it does > not guarantee that any piece of wood bought from a pet supply store is safe > from all of the above mentioned things. > > Whenever you put any piece of wood into your tank there is some risk > involved. Collecting your own from a lake, stream, river, etc. only > increases that risk by 10 fold. > > I have seen many people over the years wipe out their expensive and > beloved tanks by adding a piece of drift wood they picked up outdoors. > > In regards to the rock you picked up... there is something I suggest you > do besides the sterilizing and vinegar check. Get out your pH, KH, and GH > test kits. After the rock is clean and free of the vinegar, soak that rock > in a bucket of water taken from your aquarium and test it with each of > those tests every couple of days for 2 wks to be sure it doesn't contain > minerals that will alter the pH, KH, and/or GH of your water. This too can > be quite harmful to your fish. When we pick up a rock and we clean it and > do the vinegar test that allows us to see how safe it is on the surface, > but we still have no idea what is contained inside. There is the > possibility of any of a multitude of minerals and/or heavy metals that can > be veined through that rock and can and will affect water chemistry in ways > that can harm your fish/animals. > > Here again, I have seen many disastrous situations happen because someone > skipped this step and added a rock picked up from outdoors to their tank. > There are forms of pollution that also cannot be removed via vinegar and > water conditioner, so please understand that in spite of all the testing, > there is some level of risk involved, but these extra precautions lower > that risk greatly. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kiersten M" <ariesstarfire.blue@...> > wrote: > > > > Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n I > couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of drift wood. > Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of a muddy river bank with > very very still moving water. Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. Iv read > on at least 15 links to scrub it with a brush, then boil it(although it > wont fit in a pot that I have because its "branchy") so the next best thing > I see is to add boiling water to a 5 gal bucket with the wood in it - wait > to cool- rinse and repeat a few times, and then let it soak in clean water > for a week chaining the water until I notice a decrease of tannin in the > water. It said to soak it with a dechlorinating agent. Are there any that > work better or are preferred over others? I'm just a bit worried I wont get > it clean enough n I kill my tank n have to start aaaalllllll over again. > > > > I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome rock to go > with the drift wood and iv got it soaking in water with a bit of vinegar > but its going to get at lease a week of soaking and scrubbing before it > goes in my tank. Iv searched everywhere for "that piece" to add to it, but > I haven't found it on line or in my pet stores. Send me to the river for 20 > minutes n I'm one happy camper. Haa. > > > > Thank u guys very much. As I said, I'm a total newbie here. So I'm very > thankful for ur advice and patience with me. Lol > > Kiersten > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53720	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

Kiersten, One factor that hasn't been brought up here, is that even if this driftwood were to be otherwise safe, you would need to know woods and whether this is a hardwood or not. If it's not from a hardwood tree, and is from the roots of pine trees or other evergreens, it will only rot in your aquarium. But, not coming from a source that you can be assured of as being safe, I'd advise against using it in any case. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53721	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

I would like to address the info Patrick questioned about live rock and marine tanks because it is directly tied to what John responded. Marine animals are still mostly wild caught today, there are very few exceptions to this and finding wild fish in each of those few species is also quite easy. The captive breeding of marine fish is not only difficult, but in many cases impossible due to lack of knowledge of their spawning habits, difficulty in their adjustment to spawning in aquarium situations/captive life, and for some it's due to the many stages of growth and ability to feed and maintain water quality that stands in the way. Collecting live rock from a wild environment and mixing it with wild caught fish poses far less risk than collecting wood and rock from a wild environment and mixing it with captive bred fish that have no immunity to the many things that can come into the aquarium with these objects, ie. viruses, bacteria, parasites, fungus, etc. Comparing freshwater to saltwater just doesn't work, they are 2 entirely different worlds. I would also like to add that live rock collected comes from locations that are 10+ miles away from shore where the risk of pollution is much less likely. It is done this way for that reason. A person cannot just go out and pick up a piece of live rock from shallow water unless they want to go through the risk of getting caught and fined, and in some places jailed for doing so. There are strict regulations in place anywhere live rock is collected, which is one reason for the high price of it. Collectors must have permits that allow them to collect in a given location and the permit dictates how much and how often they are allowed to do so. To get caught doing otherwise is something to fear because the penalties are very high, including permanently losing the ability to obtain a legal permit to collect it in the future. Patrick's observation of "wiping off/rubbing off" dirt from a piece of wood or rock does not pertain to pollution. Put simply, you can't wipe away pollution that contaminates most things today when it is found on the shorelines of any waterway, and in many cases nor can you bleach it away, wash it away, or bake it away in your home oven. Fish keeping habits and behaviors have changed greatly over the years as we learn more about the animals and environments and as new technology allows us the ability to better protect the animals we keep. Back when collecting wild decor for our tanks was common, so was keeping wild caught fish who came from that particular environment and thus had natural immunities to the many potential problems I have mentioned. A lot has changed since then. The choice is yours to make, however, I felt it necessary to warn you of the risks involved. Making an informed decision can make all the difference in the world. Lastly I would like to comment on Patrick's take on what fish it's ok to take that risk with. Why should the life of a barb be any less valuable or deserving than that of a discus? How can anyone put a price on a life in such a way? We lose a bit more of humanity when we do something like that. That sort of thinking would then mean it's ok to risk the life of a shelter dog but not ok to risk the life of a purebred... it's ok to risk the life of a gerbil but not a chinchilla... ok to risk a garter snake but not ok to risk a boa constrictor... simply because one animal is more expensive than another. That is wrong on any level. A life is a life and each one is equally as valuable as another. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Kiersten, > > I would have to agree with Dawn regarding not adding anything alien to > your tank but I also understand fully what Patrick is saying abut having > choice because it is *your* tank. My viewpoint is to give my animals the > best possible quality of life & that can often mean taking advice from > people who know stuff I don't. I think the best way I can put it is to > quote something a dear friend & fish keeper once told me & that was wild > living aquatic animals are like street kids so they are virtually immune to > almost everything nasty in their environment. Fish raised & sold as pets in > stores or from breeders are completely different & have had a very > sheltered existence so are not hardy or able to withstand anything like > what their wild counterparts would cope with so adding wild decor can be a > death sentence. Mixing & matching will only cause problems for you & your > fish. > > John. > > On 2 July 2012 20:57, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I do NOT suggest you put that wood into your tank. Aside from tannins > > there are fungus, bacteria, parasites, and pollution to worry about, and > > soaking it in boiling water or baking it in an oven for a few hours is not > > going to rid you of all of the things that could be contaminating that > > piece of wood and could quickly cause some major problems in your tank. > > Insects and parasites can lay eggs inside of the wood. These "bugs" can > > lie dormant for a long time until conditions are just right and then > > suddenly hatch, infesting your tank and quite possibly your fish. The same > > thing applies to fungus spores. > > Aside from those things there are a lot of different forms of pollution > > that you simply can't remove by boiling and baking. > > > > Pet supply manufacturers that sell wood have special equipment to help > > sterilize the pieces of wood they collect and they also have specific > > places they collect it from, which cuts down on the risk, however, it does > > not guarantee that any piece of wood bought from a pet supply store is safe > > from all of the above mentioned things. > > > > Whenever you put any piece of wood into your tank there is some risk > > involved. Collecting your own from a lake, stream, river, etc. only > > increases that risk by 10 fold. > > > > I have seen many people over the years wipe out their expensive and > > beloved tanks by adding a piece of drift wood they picked up outdoors. > > > > In regards to the rock you picked up... there is something I suggest you > > do besides the sterilizing and vinegar check. Get out your pH, KH, and GH > > test kits. After the rock is clean and free of the vinegar, soak that rock > > in a bucket of water taken from your aquarium and test it with each of > > those tests every couple of days for 2 wks to be sure it doesn't contain > > minerals that will alter the pH, KH, and/or GH of your water. This too can > > be quite harmful to your fish. When we pick up a rock and we clean it and > > do the vinegar test that allows us to see how safe it is on the surface, > > but we still have no idea what is contained inside. There is the > > possibility of any of a multitude of minerals and/or heavy metals that can > > be veined through that rock and can and will affect water chemistry in ways > > that can harm your fish/animals. > > > > Here again, I have seen many disastrous situations happen because someone > > skipped this step and added a rock picked up from outdoors to their tank. > > There are forms of pollution that also cannot be removed via vinegar and > > water conditioner, so please understand that in spite of all the testing, > > there is some level of risk involved, but these extra precautions lower > > that risk greatly. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kiersten M" <ariesstarfire.blue@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n I > > couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of drift wood. > > Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of a muddy river bank with > > very very still moving water. Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. Iv read > > on at least 15 links to scrub it with a brush, then boil it(although it > > wont fit in a pot that I have because its "branchy") so the next best thing > > I see is to add boiling water to a 5 gal bucket with the wood in it - wait > > to cool- rinse and repeat a few times, and then let it soak in clean water > > for a week chaining the water until I notice a decrease of tannin in the > > water. It said to soak it with a dechlorinating agent. Are there any that > > work better or are preferred over others? I'm just a bit worried I wont get > > it clean enough n I kill my tank n have to start aaaalllllll over again. > > > > > > I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome rock to go > > with the drift wood and iv got it soaking in water with a bit of vinegar > > but its going to get at lease a week of soaking and scrubbing before it > > goes in my tank. Iv searched everywhere for "that piece" to add to it, but > > I haven't found it on line or in my pet stores. Send me to the river for 20 > > minutes n I'm one happy camper. Haa. > > > > > > Thank u guys very much. As I said, I'm a total newbie here. So I'm very > > thankful for ur advice and patience with me. Lol > > > Kiersten > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53722	From: yehezkal18	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Help!! Betta with fin rot

Hello: I have had a halfmoon betta for the last month. His fins have been fine. Today, I noticed fin rot. The biggest change was two days ago I added a marimosa moss ball and an almond leaf. !!Perhaps one of them had fungus? Until then the water always has been crystal clear. He has a good appetite and is very active. His water parameters have been like this for the last month: Ph 7.6 ( a bit high?) no nitrites ammonia at 1.0.I have been unable to get the ammonia down to 0. no nitrates I do 25% water changes every week. His tank is usually between 78-80 degrees. Maybe 82 on hot day. He is in a 6 gallon tank with a sponge filter and heater. I took him out of his tank and put him in a hospital tank (has no filtration). 1) I have both mardel maroxy and Jungle Fungus Clear tablets. Should I put either one of them in the hospital tank with him? 2) 2) How do I clean and disinfect his 6 gallon tank? Gravel, plants, ornaments, etc. Then do I treat him in the hospital tank or in the regular tank Thank you for any help you can offer.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53723	From: m davis	Date: 7/3/2012
Subject: Re: Help!! Betta with fin rot

I've had success with Bettamax.monica ________________________________ From: yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 6:55 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Help!! Betta with fin rot Hello: I have had a halfmoon betta for the last month. His fins have been fine. Today, I noticed fin rot. The biggest change was two days ago  I added a marimosa moss ball and an almond leaf. !!Perhaps one of them had fungus? Until then the water always has been crystal clear. He has a good appetite and is very active. His water parameters have been like this for the last month: Ph 7.6 ( a bit high?) no nitrites ammonia at 1.0.I have been unable to get the ammonia down to 0. no nitrates I do 25% water changes every week. His tank is usually between 78-80 degrees. Maybe 82 on hot day. He is in a 6 gallon tank with a sponge filter and heater. I took him out of his tank and put him in a hospital tank (has no filtration). 1) I have both mardel maroxy and Jungle Fungus Clear tablets. Should I put either one of them in the hospital tank with him? 2) 2) How do I clean and disinfect his 6 gallon tank? Gravel, plants, ornaments, etc. Then do I treat him in the hospital tank or in the regular tank Thank you for any help you can offer. ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53724	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

I got to thinking that dawn right after I sent that email out. Im going to make a mold of my drift wood piece n use that. until I can find a real piece I like, I called my favorite fish supplier n she's loving the idea n she said she would help n go half's in with me on this project. But that's why I'm here, ask n learn from ppl who have a LOT more experience than I do. Lol. N it all makes sense to me for sure. I just wasn't sure if that was a possibility of cleaning my own piece vs buying one. Some day ill set up a test tank just to see what kind of things come out of a piece of picked up wood. Wouldn't that be cool? A river/lake tank. I might have to start on one of those next year. But by all means thank u all so very much for ur input/advice. It is very much appreciated Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: >I would like to address the info Patrick questioned about live rock and marine tanks because it is directly tied to what John responded. Marine animals are still mostly wild caught today, there are very few exceptions to this and finding wild fish in each of those few species is also quite easy. The captive breeding of marine fish is not only difficult, but in many cases impossible due to lack of knowledge of their spawning habits, difficulty in their adjustment to spawning in aquarium situations/captive life, and for some it's due to the many stages of growth and ability to feed and maintain water quality that stands in the way. Collecting live rock from a wild environment and mixing it with wild caught fish poses far less risk than collecting wood and rock from a wild environment and mixing it with captive bred fish that have no immunity to the many things that can come into the aquarium with these objects, ie. viruses, bacteria, parasites, fungus, etc. Comparing freshwater to saltwater just doesn't work, they are 2 entirely different worlds. >I would also like to add that live rock collected comes from locations that are 10+ miles away from shore where the risk of pollution is much less likely. It is done this way for that reason. A person cannot just go out and pick up a piece of live rock from shallow water unless they want to go through the risk of getting caught and fined, and in some places jailed for doing so. There are strict regulations in place anywhere live rock is collected, which is one reason for the high price of it. Collectors must have permits that allow them to collect in a given location and the permit dictates how much and how often they are allowed to do so. To get caught doing otherwise is something to fear because the penalties are very high, including permanently losing the ability to obtain a legal permit to collect it in the future. > >Patrick's observation of "wiping off/rubbing off" dirt from a piece of wood or rock does not pertain to pollution. Put simply, you can't wipe away pollution that contaminates most things today when it is found on the shorelines of any waterway, and in many cases nor can you bleach it away, wash it away, or bake it away in your home oven. Fish keeping habits and behaviors have changed greatly over the years as we learn more about the animals and environments and as new technology allows us the ability to better protect the animals we keep. Back when collecting wild decor for our tanks was common, so was keeping wild caught fish who came from that particular environment and thus had natural immunities to the many potential problems I have mentioned. A lot has changed since then. > >The choice is yours to make, however, I felt it necessary to warn you of the risks involved. Making an informed decision can make all the difference in the world. > >Lastly I would like to comment on Patrick's take on what fish it's ok to take that risk with. Why should the life of a barb be any less valuable or deserving than that of a discus? How can anyone put a price on a life in such a way? We lose a bit more of humanity when we do something like that. That sort of thinking would then mean it's ok to risk the life of a shelter dog but not ok to risk the life of a purebred... it's ok to risk the life of a gerbil but not a chinchilla... ok to risk a garter snake but not ok to risk a boa constrictor... simply because one animal is more expensive than another. That is wrong on any level. A life is a life and each one is equally as valuable as another. > >Dawn > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Kiersten, >> >> I would have to agree with Dawn regarding not adding anything alien to >> your tank but I also understand fully what Patrick is saying abut having >> choice because it is *your* tank. My viewpoint is to give my animals the >> best possible quality of life & that can often mean taking advice from >> people who know stuff I don't. I think the best way I can put it is to >> quote something a dear friend & fish keeper once told me & that was wild >> living aquatic animals are like street kids so they are virtually immune to >> almost everything nasty in their environment. Fish raised & sold as pets in >> stores or from breeders are completely different & have had a very >> sheltered existence so are not hardy or able to withstand anything like >> what their wild counterparts would cope with so adding wild decor can be a >> death sentence. Mixing & matching will only cause problems for you & your >> fish. >> >> John. >> >> On 2 July 2012 20:57, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: >> >> > ** >> > >> > >> > I do NOT suggest you put that wood into your tank. Aside from tannins >> > there are fungus, bacteria, parasites, and pollution to worry about, and >> > soaking it in boiling water or baking it in an oven for a few hours is not >> > going to rid you of all of the things that could be contaminating that >> > piece of wood and could quickly cause some major problems in your tank. >> > Insects and parasites can lay eggs inside of the wood. These "bugs" can >> > lie dormant for a long time until conditions are just right and then >> > suddenly hatch, infesting your tank and quite possibly your fish. The same >> > thing applies to fungus spores. >> > Aside from those things there are a lot of different forms of pollution >> > that you simply can't remove by boiling and baking. >> > >> > Pet supply manufacturers that sell wood have special equipment to help >> > sterilize the pieces of wood they collect and they also have specific >> > places they collect it from, which cuts down on the risk, however, it does >> > not guarantee that any piece of wood bought from a pet supply store is safe >> > from all of the above mentioned things. >> > >> > Whenever you put any piece of wood into your tank there is some risk >> > involved. Collecting your own from a lake, stream, river, etc. only >> > increases that risk by 10 fold. >> > >> > I have seen many people over the years wipe out their expensive and >> > beloved tanks by adding a piece of drift wood they picked up outdoors. >> > >> > In regards to the rock you picked up... there is something I suggest you >> > do besides the sterilizing and vinegar check. Get out your pH, KH, and GH >> > test kits. After the rock is clean and free of the vinegar, soak that rock >> > in a bucket of water taken from your aquarium and test it with each of >> > those tests every couple of days for 2 wks to be sure it doesn't contain >> > minerals that will alter the pH, KH, and/or GH of your water. This too can >> > be quite harmful to your fish. When we pick up a rock and we clean it and >> > do the vinegar test that allows us to see how safe it is on the surface, >> > but we still have no idea what is contained inside. There is the >> > possibility of any of a multitude of minerals and/or heavy metals that can >> > be veined through that rock and can and will affect water chemistry in ways >> > that can harm your fish/animals. >> > >> > Here again, I have seen many disastrous situations happen because someone >> > skipped this step and added a rock picked up from outdoors to their tank. >> > There are forms of pollution that also cannot be removed via vinegar and >> > water conditioner, so please understand that in spite of all the testing, >> > there is some level of risk involved, but these extra precautions lower >> > that risk greatly. >> > >> > Dawn >> > >> > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kiersten M" <ariesstarfire.blue@> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Today we went floating on a river n I noticed a pile of wood n I >> > couldn't help but pick through it n found the perfect piece of drift wood. >> > Have NOT put it in my tank because I dug it out of a muddy river bank with >> > very very still moving water. Im wanting to prepare it for my tank. Iv read >> > on at least 15 links to scrub it with a brush, then boil it(although it >> > wont fit in a pot that I have because its "branchy") so the next best thing >> > I see is to add boiling water to a 5 gal bucket with the wood in it - wait >> > to cool- rinse and repeat a few times, and then let it soak in clean water >> > for a week chaining the water until I notice a decrease of tannin in the >> > water. It said to soak it with a dechlorinating agent. Are there any that >> > work better or are preferred over others? I'm just a bit worried I wont get >> > it clean enough n I kill my tank n have to start aaaalllllll over again. >> > > >> > > I'm definatly a DIY kinda person, so I picked up an awesome rock to go >> > with the drift wood and iv got it soaking in water with a bit of vinegar >> > but its going to get at lease a week of soaking and scrubbing before it >> > goes in my tank. Iv searched everywhere for "that piece" to add to it, but >> > I haven't found it on line or in my pet stores. Send me to the river for 20 >> > minutes n I'm one happy camper. Haa. >> > > >> > > Thank u guys very much. As I said, I'm a total newbie here. So I'm very >> > thankful for ur advice and patience with me. Lol >> > > Kiersten >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53725	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: driftwood from river, curing/cleaning.

Hi Kiersten, I think that setting up a river or lake test tank with some harvested driftwood would be a real interesting project, something I would like to do myself but just don't have the time. If you go ahead then keep us up to date with it! John*<o)))< * On 4 July 2012 16:21, Kiersten <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > ** > > > I got to thinking that dawn right after I sent that email out. Im going to > make a mold of my drift wood piece n use that. until I can find a real > piece I like, I called my favorite fish supplier n she's loving the idea n > she said she would help n go half's in with me on this project. But that's > why I'm here, ask n learn from ppl who have a LOT more experience than I > do. Lol. N it all makes sense to me for sure. I just wasn't sure if that > was a possibility of cleaning my own piece vs buying one. Some day ill set > up a test tank just to see what kind of things come out of a piece of > picked up wood. Wouldn't that be cool? A river/lake tank. I might have to > start on one of those next year. > > But by all means thank u all so very much for ur input/advice. It is very > much appreciated > > Kiersten > Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53726	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2012
Subject: Re: Help!! Betta with fin rot

Hi Yehezkal, Best I can offer you is this link as I don't keep Bettas: http://nippyfish.net/ Hope you can sort him out. John*<o)))< * On 4 July 2012 00:55, yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello: > > I have had a halfmoon betta for the last month. > His fins have been fine. Today, I noticed fin rot. > > The biggest change was two days ago I added a marimosa moss ball and an > almond leaf. > > !!Perhaps one of them had fungus? > > Until then the water always has been crystal clear. He has a good appetite > and is very active. > > His water parameters have been like this for the last month: > > Ph 7.6 ( a bit high?) > > no nitrites > > ammonia at 1.0.I have been unable to get the ammonia down to 0. > > no nitrates > > I do 25% water changes every week. > > His tank is usually between 78-80 degrees. Maybe 82 on hot day. > > He is in a 6 gallon tank with a sponge filter and heater. > > I took him out of his tank and put him in a hospital tank (has no > filtration). > > 1) I have both mardel maroxy and Jungle Fungus Clear tablets. > > Should I put either one of them in the hospital tank with him? > > 2) 2) How do I clean and disinfect his 6 gallon tank? > > Gravel, plants, ornaments, etc. > > Then do I treat him in the hospital tank or in the regular tank > > Thank you for any help you can offer. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53727	From: reneap7040	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: New

Hi. I am 47 year old male in the state of WA. I have a 20 Gal.tank with 8 fish in it.A female betta,2 cherry barbs,a glow neon tetra,a black neon tetra,a red eyed tetra,a flameback red heart tetra and a serpea tetra. I use 2 20 Gal.Powerfilters.I have a heater.My tank are densly planted,and I use rock and gravel in the buttom.And I have a skull in there too.The watertemp.are always 78-80 degrees. I do a 1 Gal. waterchange 2-3 times a week,with aged and conditioned water. My fish knows me very well.They all come to me when I put my fingers to the side of the tank,or if I put my hand in the water. I feed them a little fishfood twice a day.Once in while only once a day. I really love my little tank,and I love to fiddle with it,and read about the hobby. I am glad to be in this group,and read all the neat things you guys write. Rene

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53728	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: New

Hi Rene, Welcome to the group, how long have you had your tank set up? John*<o)))< * On 5 July 2012 18:29, reneap7040 <begotten65@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi. > I am 47 year old male in the state of WA. > I have a 20 Gal.tank with 8 fish in it.A female betta,2 cherry barbs,a > glow neon tetra,a black neon tetra,a red eyed tetra,a flameback red heart > tetra and a serpea tetra. > I use 2 20 Gal.Powerfilters.I have a heater.My tank are densly planted,and > I use rock and gravel in the buttom.And I have a skull in there too.The > watertemp.are always 78-80 degrees. > I do a 1 Gal. waterchange 2-3 times a week,with aged and conditioned water. > My fish knows me very well.They all come to me when I put my fingers to > the side of the tank,or if I put my hand in the water. > I feed them a little fishfood twice a day.Once in while only once a day. > I really love my little tank,and I love to fiddle with it,and read about > the hobby. > I am glad to be in this group,and read all the neat things you guys write. > Rene > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53729	From: c_chell24	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: African Dwarf Frogs

I currently have a 55 gal. tank. We have recently become proud owners of African Dwarf Frogs. However one of them got stuck in the filter wand while we was away yesterday, and i came home, and we turned off the filter, and gently removed him. He was lifeless..so i don't know how long his little legs and body was stuck on there. I left off my filter. I am trying to come up with something to cover the suction. I removed some of the water so either frog could get out of the tank. But in the meanwhile, the frog that was injured is not hardly moving unless you nudge him with the net, is floating alot,not eating, and has this white stuff all over his legs. In our tank We have guppies, neons, 2 African dwarf frogs and 2 snails. I dont know what to do in order to keep the frog alive. I don't have a hospital tank. and i read somewhere if you increase the heat on the tank up to 89 degrees..for up to 4 days that i will kill the fungus. I did turn up the heat gradually..I also turned on the tank light. Any help would be appreciated. Thank You, Shelly

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53730	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/5/2012
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs

Put a filter sponge on the intake to your filter. If you can purchase something like an aquaclear sponge you can cut a slit in the sponge and place it over the intake. Make sure whatever sponge you use is aquarium safe. Non aquarium sponges may have a mildewcide to keep mold from growing on the sponge and this may be harmful to your tank inhabitants. Mike -----Original Message----- From: c_chell24 <c_chell24@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 11:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] African Dwarf Frogs I currently have a 55 gal. tank. We have recently become proud owners of African Dwarf Frogs. However one of them got stuck in the filter wand while we was away yesterday, and i came home, and we turned off the filter, and gently removed him. He was lifeless..so i don't know how long his little legs and body was stuck on there. I left off my filter. I am trying to come up with something to cover the suction. I removed some of the water so either frog could get out of the tank. But in the meanwhile, the frog that was injured is not hardly moving unless you nudge him with the net, is floating alot,not eating, and has this white stuff all over his legs. In our tank We have guppies, neons, 2 African dwarf frogs and 2 snails. I dont know what to do in order to keep the frog alive. I don't have a hospital tank. and i read somewhere if you increase the heat on the tank up to 89 degrees..for up to 4 days that i will kill the fungus. I did turn up the heat gradually..I also turned on the tank light. Any help would be appreciated. Thank You, Shelly

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53731	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/6/2012
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frogs

Hi Shelley, Sorry to hear about your frog, I wish I could help you more but I know very little about your type of set up. What I would say is that turning up the heat & leaving the lighting on my well be detrimental to all the other healthy inhabitants of your tank because they will very likely have a specific temperature that they need. Hopefully someone can jump in with specific advice for your frog. John*<o)))<* On 6 July 2012 07:53, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > ** > > > Put a filter sponge on the intake to your filter. If you can purchase > something like an aquaclear sponge you can cut a slit in the sponge and > place it over the intake. Make sure whatever sponge you use is > aquarium safe. Non aquarium sponges may have a mildewcide to keep mold > from growing on the sponge and this may be harmful to your tank > inhabitants. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: c_chell24 <c_chell24@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 11:48 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] African Dwarf Frogs > > I currently have a 55 gal. tank. We have recently become proud owners > of African Dwarf Frogs. However one of them got stuck in the filter > wand while we was away yesterday, and i came home, and we turned off > the filter, and gently removed him. He was lifeless..so i don't know > how long his little legs and body was stuck on there. I left off my > filter. I am trying to come up with something to cover the suction. I > removed some of the water so either frog could get out of the tank. But > in the meanwhile, the frog that was injured is not hardly moving unless > you nudge him with the net, is floating alot,not eating, and has this > white stuff all over his legs. In our tank We have guppies, neons, 2 > African dwarf frogs and 2 snails. I dont know what to do in order to > keep the frog alive. I don't have a hospital tank. and i read somewhere > if you increase the heat on the tank up to 89 degrees..for up to 4 days > that i will kill the fungus. I did turn up the heat gradually..I also > turned on the tank light. Any help would be appreciated. > > Thank You, > > Shelly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53732	From: yehezkal18	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Best way to cycle a new tank?

I want to set up a 5 gallon tank for a Betta and 7 gallon tank for red cherry shrimp. What is the best way to cycle these tanks?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53733	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

The fastest way is to buy a product such as Dr. Tim's One and Only, add it to the tank and it's instantly cycled and you add the fish right away. Otherwise you can do the fishless cycle by adding drops of ammonia (with NO surfactants/soap in it, just plain ammonia). Amber On 7/8/2012 10:56 AM, yehezkal18 wrote: > > I want to set up a 5 gallon tank for a Betta and 7 gallon tank for red > cherry shrimp. What is the best way to cycle these tanks? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53734	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/8/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Hi Yehezkal, If you already have a cycled tank then run the new filter for the tank you are planning in your established tank alongside your old filter & it will self-seed with good bacteria in a couple of weeks. That way you can keep setting up as many new tanks as you like all ready cycled. If you do not have an established tank & this is your first tank then have a look at this link: http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm Don't worry about it being from a Cichlid web site-it's the same for all new tanks whatever you keep. Let us know if you have any questions. John*<o)))<* On 8 July 2012 19:56, yehezkal18 <yehezkal18@...> wrote: > ** > > > I want to set up a 5 gallon tank for a Betta and 7 gallon tank for red > cherry shrimp. What is the best way to cycle these tanks? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53735	From: reneap7040	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: New

Hi John.I had my tank for little less than 4 years know. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Rene, > > Welcome to the group, how long have you had your tank set up? > > John*<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53736	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Live plants. With relatively fast-growing plants, and floating plants are ideal for this, you will not discern a "cycle" as such--and more importantly, neither will the fish. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "yehezkal18" <yehezkal18@...> wrote: > > I want to set up a 5 gallon tank for a Betta and 7 gallon tank for red cherry shrimp. What is the best way to cycle these tanks? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53737	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/9/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Byron, While aquatic plants will consume a fair portion of the nitrate being produced, there are also many which prefer consuming ammonia and nitrite over nitrate. Still, depending on the bioload and the flora to fauna balance, they can rarely be depended upon to maintain a low enough ammonia level not toxic to fish when this waste product peaks around the ten day period; likewise for the expected nitrite spike within the 20 day period. Live plants will certainly help towards this end, in cycling a tank, but unless the tank is loaded up enough with plants in comparison to the amount of fish mass present, the organic wastes can rise beyond the fish's tolerance -- especially during the nights (of the 10th to 12th days), the time when plants don't uptake foods because of not being able to synthesise them in the dark. There can be a fine line in this balance of fish and plants, which cannot be trusted to fall back on until the nitrifying bacteria populate in sufficient amounts to control the spiking of the organic wastes. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53738	From: leehinckle@gmail.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Hot Fish!

Hi, I have never posted but do enjoy reading the info given to others. I now have my own problem. We have been having Hot weather. We do not have AC but open all the windows at night then close them once it starts to warm up and we have several fans. My problem is my community fish have been at a temp of 78 and because of the heat the tank temp is almost 90. I have been watching the fish most seem ok but my black molly has white spots all over I think it is ick so I'm going to take the filter pad out of my outside filter so it still circulates and medicate the tank or would it be better to just take the fish out of the tank? I'm not exactly sure how long he has had the spots... I have kept the light off to keep from further heat being added to the tank. Also.... Should I take some water out and put cooler water in or what is your advice? I have a 55 gallon tank. I have a 2" pleo, 1 molly,3 neon tetra's and about 15 young guppies. Thank you for your advice in advance.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53739	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

I guess I should have detailed this more, so allow me to expand. Aquatic plants significantly prefer ammonium as their source of nitrogen and rarely take up nitrate unless the ammonium is not sufficient. When nitrate is taken up, studies have shown that the plants must change it back into ammonium, and this takes additional energy, which is why they prefer ammonia/ammonium. In acidic water, the ammonia produced by fish and bacteria is basically changed into ammonium and the plants take it up directly. In basic water the plants still take up the ammonia but convert it into ammonium. They also have the ability to take up ammonia as a toxin; when I once questioned my colleagues on one of the plant groups if there was a limit to this, Tom Barr mentioned that the plants' ability to take up ammonia was considerable and unless the tank was way out of balance this would never be reached. In my 15+ years of planted tanks I have set up dozens of new tanks, and reset existing tanks using new substrate and filter media, and always put fish in the tank on day one (having it well planted). I never see ammonia or nitrite above zero, ever. The Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria do establish, but their numbers are much fewer if there are sufficient plants. The minimal amount of ammonia that somehow manages to get past the plants is so low it cannot be detected with our basic test kits; and of course, nitrite is the same. Another benefit of plants is that nitrite is not a result of their take up of ammonia. Diana Walstad notes that the plants are in competition with bacteria for the ammonia, and the plants are generally much faster. This is why we do not want to encourage excess biological filtration. Provided there is sufficient light intensity to drive photosynthesis, and assuming the other 16 nutrients are available, plants will win out. I fully agree that the fish load must be in balance with the plant load. But this is fairly easy to achieve, if one uses fast-growing plants such as stem plants and especially floating plants which are fast assimilators of nutrients including ammonia/ammonium, and the initial fish stocking is low. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Byron, > > While aquatic plants will consume a fair portion of the nitrate being > produced, there are also many which prefer consuming ammonia and nitrite over > nitrate. Still, depending on the bioload and the flora to fauna balance, they > can rarely be depended upon to maintain a low enough ammonia level not toxic > to fish when this waste product peaks around the ten day period; likewise > for the expected nitrite spike within the 20 day period. Live plants will > certainly help towards this end, in cycling a tank, but unless the tank is > loaded up enough with plants in comparison to the amount of fish mass present, > the organic wastes can rise beyond the fish's tolerance -- especially during > the nights (of the 10th to 12th days), the time when plants don't uptake > foods because of not being able to synthesise them in the dark. There can be > a fine line in this balance of fish and plants, which cannot be trusted to > fall back on until the nitrifying bacteria populate in sufficient amounts to > control the spiking of the organic wastes. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53740	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Byron, The problem with "cycling," using plants consuming ammonia/ammonium is that the nitrogen cycle will usually never get establish, as they'll be largely starved out. As you said yourself, the plants will out-compete the nitrifying bacteria for food, especially the Nitrosomas and Nitrospira (those bacteria which feed directly only on ammonia). In those cases where a nitrogen cycle does get establish, this would only occur when there is too little plant life available in the aquarium to prevent the ammonia from spiking. In which case, a spike in ammonia -- and a sufficient population of Nitrosomas and Nitrospira enabling the conversion of sufficient ammonia to nitrite, to feed and establish large enough populations of Nitrobacters and Nitrospina -- is the only way a substantial enough cycle is to be established to constantly convert the organic waste of a normal bioload of fishes to ensure the Free Ammonia level never reaching toxicity. But to get back to using plants. While we know many aquatic plants will feed on ammonia, we also know that the presence of ammonia is not needed for plants to thrive. I'm sure you must know, that plants can utilize other foods, nitrate not being adverse to their needs. There are also food supplements such as Flourish Excel, which are used by many successful plant growers -- Takashi Amano being just one of them. It would be infinitely more beneficial both for growing plants while assuring the establishment of a nitrogen cycle for the fishes in the same tank, to start the majority of the plants only after the cycle has become established via nitrifying bacteria. With plants otherwise consuming ammonia, it's difficult, if not impossible to be able to cycle your tank with sufficiently large populations of bacteria, to remove the organic waste level of a tank of fish if for any reason those same plants weren't present -- which could happen, for example, when needing to raise the temperature above the plants' tolerance in treating some fish diseases (and having many of the plants die as a result of this necessity). It is not safe in the aquarium to rely solely on plants to remove ammonia without being able to grow a large enough population of nitrifying bacteria. Growing plants is not cycling. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53741	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Hi Lee, While fish usually only get diseased if they are stressed, a high temperature alone should not cause them to get Ich. Too, at temperatures above 86 o, Ich cannot multiply. Are you sure the water's temperature is near 90 o, even though the air is? Have you been adding any ice or taking any other measures to more rapidly bring the temperature down? Have you recently checked not only you ammonia level, but also your pH? Ammonia becomes more toxic with the increase in pH and in temperature, and this would definitely be a stress factor sufficient enough to induce the invasion of a disease. Give us your water parameters, but if you find ammonia (or nitrite) present, you may well need to do a partial water change (PWC) to help eliminate it. After the PWC. if you find you need one, add salt to the tank in the amount of 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. I notice you have Neons and a small Pleco, so don't exceed this amount. They will tolerate this token amount but will not take larger quantities of salt. The salt will make it difficult for any Ich. Do not medicate, yet, do not remove your heater as this will ensure your water's temperature no dropping too low. Better yet, if you can adjust your heater to 86 o, as this will control any Ich -- even though I realize you'd like to get the temperasture down if possible. Now is not the time to do it however, until you can be assured of no more Ich. If by chance you're seeing Ich near the 90 o range you mentioned (in the water, not the room), note, that there is a rare and very virulent strain of Ich which can survive higher temperatures, which you may have if you still see it at water temperatures near 90 o. In this case you may need to medicate, even though this is still unlikely. Give us more info on all your parameters, including the water temperature. If it comes to your needing to medicate, try avoiding any medication containing Malachite Green as this is toxic to Tetras (Neons) and Catfish. While this type of medication may be used safely with these fish at half-strength, it's not as effective on the disease. Usually, the heat treatment -- sustained 86 o and salt, will eliminate Ich in several days if the water is "clean" (contains no ammonia to further strss the fish). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53742	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

i have a tupperware container full of treated water that i float in the tank till it thaws... then re-freeze... i do thiis twice a day and it keeps it down a few degrees... the poor dears like it... they gather around it sometimes... and the snail will hop on for a ride... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@... wrote: > > Hi, I have never posted but do enjoy reading the info given to others. I now have my own problem. We have been having Hot weather. We do not have AC but open all the windows at night then close them once it starts to warm up and we have several fans. My problem is my community fish have been at a temp of 78 and because of the heat the tank temp is almost 90. I have been watching the fish most seem ok but my black molly has white spots all over I think it is ick so I'm going to take the filter pad out of my outside filter so it still circulates and medicate the tank or would it be better to just take the fish out of the tank? > > I'm not exactly sure how long he has had the spots... I have kept the light off to keep from further heat being added to the tank. Also.... Should I take some water out and put cooler water in or what is your advice? > > I have a 55 gallon tank. I have a 2" pleo, 1 molly,3 neon tetra's and about 15 young guppies. > > Thank you for your advice in advance. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53743	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

oh... and your molly may be unwell because its a brackish water fish and shouldnt really be in a freshwater tank... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@... wrote: > > Hi, I have never posted but do enjoy reading the info given to others. I now have my own problem. We have been having Hot weather. We do not have AC but open all the windows at night then close them once it starts to warm up and we have several fans. My problem is my community fish have been at a temp of 78 and because of the heat the tank temp is almost 90. I have been watching the fish most seem ok but my black molly has white spots all over I think it is ick so I'm going to take the filter pad out of my outside filter so it still circulates and medicate the tank or would it be better to just take the fish out of the tank? > > I'm not exactly sure how long he has had the spots... I have kept the light off to keep from further heat being added to the tank. Also.... Should I take some water out and put cooler water in or what is your advice? > > I have a 55 gallon tank. I have a 2" pleo, 1 molly,3 neon tetra's and about 15 young guppies. > > Thank you for your advice in advance. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53744	From: Paul	Date: 7/10/2012
Subject: sodium thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap water

The source I used to get this from raised his price. I can get it cheaper on Ebay but wonder is there are different concentrations of the crystals, or is the standard 99% pure. I don't want to use too much or too little. Paul

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53745	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Sodium Thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap wat

Paul, Let me know how much you want and I will give you wholesale pricing. Inkmaker, aka: Charles@... >The source I used to get this from raised his price. I can get it >cheaper on Ebay but wonder is there are different concentrations of >the crystals, or is the standard 99% pure. I don't want to use too >much or too little. > Paul

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53746	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

>Hi Lee, Ray speaks the truth, but misses one very important item, the water freshness. A 1/4 tank water change every other day can change things for the better and remove the spots from your fish if they are not due to Parasite: Ich. Water quality and removal of Nitrogen compounds will greatly improve the fishes chances to improved health. If other fishes in the tank show the white spots - it is most certainly Ich. But the water changes are still a bigger part of the whole story in fish husbandry. Charles H > >While fish usually only get diseased if they are stressed, a high >temperature alone should not cause them to get Ich. Too, at >temperatures above 86 o, >Ich cannot multiply. Are you sure the water's temperature is near 90 o, >even though the air is? Have you been adding any ice or taking any other >measures to more rapidly bring the temperature down? Have you >recently checked >not only you ammonia level, but also your pH? Ammonia becomes more toxic >with the increase in pH and in temperature, and this would definitely be a >stress factor sufficient enough to induce the invasion of a disease. > >Give us your water parameters, but if you find ammonia (or nitrite) >present, you may well need to do a partial water change (PWC) to >help eliminate it. > After the PWC. if you find you need one, add salt to the tank in the >amount of 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. I notice you have Neons and a >small Pleco, >so don't exceed this amount. They will tolerate this token amount but will >not take larger quantities of salt. The salt will make it difficult for >any Ich. Do not medicate, yet, do not remove your heater as this will ensure >your water's temperature no dropping too low. Better yet, if you can adjust >your heater to 86 o, as this will control any Ich -- even though I realize >you'd like to get the temperasture down if possible. Now is not the time to >do it however, until you can be assured of no more Ich. > >If by chance you're seeing Ich near the 90 o range you mentioned (in the >water, not the room), note, that there is a rare and very virulent strain of >Ich which can survive higher temperatures, which you may have if you still >see it at water temperatures near 90 o. In this case you may need to >medicate, even though this is still unlikely. Give us more info on all your >parameters, including the water temperature. If it comes to your needing to >medicate, try avoiding any medication containing Malachite Green as >this is toxic >to Tetras (Neons) and Catfish. While this type of medication may be used >safely with these fish at half-strength, it's not as effective on the disease. > Usually, the heat treatment -- sustained 86 o and salt, will eliminate Ich >in several days if the water is "clean" (contains no ammonia to further >strss the fish). > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53747	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Charles, Lee, I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic waste contaminents via regular PWC's. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53748	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

I have to agree with Byron on this one, with one exception... there are some plant species that prefer to feed on nitrate and will wither and die without enough nitrate for food, such as hornwort or naja grass. The key in using this method is in understanding the plants and the balance needed for plants and fish (waste). It takes a large amount of plants to utilize a small amount of waste. Thus, a 55 gallon tank with 3 - 4 bunches of plants in it is not a "fully planted" tank and cannot utilize waste from a full population of fish. I have seen many references to people keeping planted tanks and see a lack of understanding in what makes up a "fully planted" tank vs just a planted tank. A tank with live plants in it (any number) is considered a "planted tank", while a tank heavily stocked with plants (ie. a 55 gallon with 20+ bunches of plants) would more be considered a "fully planted" or "heavily planted" tank. I'm wondering if Byron has any photos to share of one of his fully planted tanks for reference? It should also be noted that plants also being in the nitrifying bacteria with them, be it in small amounts. When plants come from a cycled environment their leaves, stems, and even roots serve as surface area within the tank, and thus will hold a small population of bacteria that helps to start out the cycling process in a new tank as long as they don't come into contact with chlorine/chloramines which would kill the bacteria. For this reason, when I rinse new plants, I do it using tank water that is either established from an existing cycled tank or the new tank that has been treated with water conditioner a few days before the plants are introduced. This helps to preserve that bacteria and thus there is "something" in way of living bacteria to get things started right away. Plants also can give off a limited amount of waste that can create ammonia content, such as that single dying/dead leaf you may find when you purchase the plant. For this reason I tend to leave that minimal "undesirable" leaf here and there, at least until the fish are added to provide a food source for plants and bacteria alike. Like Byron, this is my preferred method of starting up any new tank and I have been using this method for many yrs without any difficulties or fish losses. There are multiple safe ways to cycle any tank.. doing a fishless cycle isn't the only one. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > I guess I should have detailed this more, so allow me to expand. > > Aquatic plants significantly prefer ammonium as their source of nitrogen and rarely take up nitrate unless the ammonium is not sufficient. When nitrate is taken up, studies have shown that the plants must change it back into ammonium, and this takes additional energy, which is why they prefer ammonia/ammonium. In acidic water, the ammonia produced by fish and bacteria is basically changed into ammonium and the plants take it up directly. In basic water the plants still take up the ammonia but convert it into ammonium. They also have the ability to take up ammonia as a toxin; when I once questioned my colleagues on one of the plant groups if there was a limit to this, Tom Barr mentioned that the plants' ability to take up ammonia was considerable and unless the tank was way out of balance this would never be reached. > > In my 15+ years of planted tanks I have set up dozens of new tanks, and reset existing tanks using new substrate and filter media, and always put fish in the tank on day one (having it well planted). I never see ammonia or nitrite above zero, ever. The Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria do establish, but their numbers are much fewer if there are sufficient plants. The minimal amount of ammonia that somehow manages to get past the plants is so low it cannot be detected with our basic test kits; and of course, nitrite is the same. Another benefit of plants is that nitrite is not a result of their take up of ammonia. > > Diana Walstad notes that the plants are in competition with bacteria for the ammonia, and the plants are generally much faster. This is why we do not want to encourage excess biological filtration. Provided there is sufficient light intensity to drive photosynthesis, and assuming the other 16 nutrients are available, plants will win out. I fully agree that the fish load must be in balance with the plant load. But this is fairly easy to achieve, if one uses fast-growing plants such as stem plants and especially floating plants which are fast assimilators of nutrients including ammonia/ammonium, and the initial fish stocking is low. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Byron, > > > > While aquatic plants will consume a fair portion of the nitrate being > > produced, there are also many which prefer consuming ammonia and nitrite over > > nitrate. Still, depending on the bioload and the flora to fauna balance, they > > can rarely be depended upon to maintain a low enough ammonia level not toxic > > to fish when this waste product peaks around the ten day period; likewise > > for the expected nitrite spike within the 20 day period. Live plants will > > certainly help towards this end, in cycling a tank, but unless the tank is > > loaded up enough with plants in comparison to the amount of fish mass present, > > the organic wastes can rise beyond the fish's tolerance -- especially during > > the nights (of the 10th to 12th days), the time when plants don't uptake > > foods because of not being able to synthesise them in the dark. There can be > > a fine line in this balance of fish and plants, which cannot be trusted to > > fall back on until the nitrifying bacteria populate in sufficient amounts to > > control the spiking of the organic wastes. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53749	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

With respect, this argument does not hold scientific scrutiny in a couple of areas. First, some ammonia will get past the plants and the bacteria will be established though at lower levels than if no plants were present. If one establishes the bacteria via a "normal" cycle, and then added plants later, the plants would still outcompete the bacteria for the ammonia/ammonium and the bacteria would die off accordingly. The end result in either case is basically the same. But you have not had to "cycle" initially with live plants and thus avoided either detriment to fish or messing around with some form of fishless cycling. And the hundreds of natural planted tank aquarists with successful healthy fish tanks shows that this does and will work. Second, plants must have ammonium. As I mentioned previously, nitrate will be used, but for many plants only when ammonium/ammonia is not sufficient on its own. If you check with Seachem, you will find that their nitrogen supplement has both the ammonium and nitrate forms. Plants have to spend energy to change the nitrate back into ammonium, and they prefer assimilating ammonium/ammonia to doing this. There are scientific studies proving this, so it is not my guesswork. Walstad cites them in her book if interested. And several acknowledged planted tank sources maintain the same. High tech systems such as Amano's that need to dose high amounts of nitrogen obviuosly will use nitrate as the safer compared to adding ammonia/ammonium, but this is not because plants prefer the nitrate. Third, Flourish Excel is a liquid carbon supplement, not nitrogen, so this is a very different issue. And I do not recomend using Excel or API's Carbon Booster, as both are toxic chemicals that will kill some plants outright, and can kill fish and bacteria if overdosed; the toxicity fact sheet on these products is worth reading. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Byron, > > The problem with "cycling," using plants consuming ammonia/ammonium is that > the nitrogen cycle will usually never get establish, as they'll be largely > starved out. As you said yourself, the plants will out-compete the > nitrifying bacteria for food, especially the Nitrosomas and Nitrospira (those > bacteria which feed directly only on ammonia). > > In those cases where a nitrogen cycle does get establish, this would only > occur when there is too little plant life available in the aquarium to > prevent the ammonia from spiking. In which case, a spike in ammonia -- and a > sufficient population of Nitrosomas and Nitrospira enabling the conversion of > sufficient ammonia to nitrite, to feed and establish large enough populations > of Nitrobacters and Nitrospina -- is the only way a substantial enough > cycle is to be established to constantly convert the organic waste of a normal > bioload of fishes to ensure the Free Ammonia level never reaching toxicity. > > But to get back to using plants. While we know many aquatic plants will > feed on ammonia, we also know that the presence of ammonia is not needed for > plants to thrive. I'm sure you must know, that plants can utilize other > foods, nitrate not being adverse to their needs. There are also food > supplements such as Flourish Excel, which are used by many successful plant growers -- > Takashi Amano being just one of them. It would be infinitely more > beneficial both for growing plants while assuring the establishment of a nitrogen > cycle for the fishes in the same tank, to start the majority of the plants > only after the cycle has become established via nitrifying bacteria. > > With plants otherwise consuming ammonia, it's difficult, if not impossible > to be able to cycle your tank with sufficiently large populations of > bacteria, to remove the organic waste level of a tank of fish if for any reason > those same plants weren't present -- which could happen, for example, when > needing to raise the temperature above the plants' tolerance in treating some > fish diseases (and having many of the plants die as a result of this > necessity). It is not safe in the aquarium to rely solely on plants to remove > ammonia without being able to grow a large enough population of nitrifying > bacteria. Growing plants is not cycling. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53750	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Byron, With all due respect, it may just be that my rebuttal doesn't fit only with your scrutiny -- although I'm open to anything I may have missed. But first, as to some ammonia getting past the plants and establishing some bacteria, even though at a lower level of population -- I've already said that, and totally agree with it. This is a given, and a foregone conclusion. I stated that; with plants using the ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will never get established, as they'll (the bacteria, if you're following me) be largely starved out. Note, I said "largely" starved out, not completely starved out. So, sure, the relatively little ammonia left in the water column that the plants don't consume will be eaten by the nitrifying bacteria -- and they will multiply up to the point of what that small amount of ammonia will permit them to do, to the extent of how much bacteria this smaller amount of food can nourish them. And, while the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (in addition to the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria) will also populate -- also, in much smaller amounts -- none of these bacteria populations will be large enough to convert the organic wastes of a normal bioload of fishes, as their populations will never be allowed to reach the proportions needed. In effect, the tank will not be cycled with a sufficient amount of bacteria to be considered as being able to maintain the water in a toxic-free state for the fishes without the help of the plants. Such a tank will never be fully cycled to the equivilent of being able to convert all the fish waste, in the absence of ammonia-consuming plants, if they were ever to perish or be removed/transplanted to other aquaria. While live plants are a help in keeping the ammonia level down, I see them as a tool not to be relied upon, as a replacement for nitrifying bacteria. There are many hobbyists who just don't know which plants to use and which plants not to use, when employing them as ammonia consumers (not all aquatic plants can use ammonia as a food). Now, if the nitrifying bacteria were to be allowed to cycle to the equivilent of converting the organic waste of the bioload of fishes present in the tank, in the absence of these plants, there would be much larger populations of the bacteria permitted to colonize the filter and all other surfaces. While adding plants after a full cycle is allowed to be established will reduce the amount of available ammonia, I have to disagree with you if your position is that the plants will still sufficiently out-compete the bacteria for this food, as to substantially reduce their numbers. With so much more bacteria now present, as first being allowed to multiply, the shear numbers of these bacteria would be able to use most -- although, of course, not all -- the ammonia given off by the fishes, in a normally planted tank. A "normally planted tank," however can not only be subjective, but if one purposely overloads the tank with plants in efforts to use them to consume the ammoina rather than the bacteria, then sure, any large multitude of ammonia-consuming plants would hardly leave 0.01 ppm of ammonia left as bacteria food. If it's your choice to rely largely on plants to keep the ammonia in check, that's your prerogative, but it's still my opinion that it's running a risk not to have a fully cycled tank running, with sufficient populations of nitrifying bacteria. I certainly cannot condone it on here, especially as for one consideration, as these ammonia-consuming plants (even though they are many) have not been identified to the membership, and, unless they're aware that removing the full (or large portion) compliment of these plants will result in the much smaller than needed populations of bacteria not being able to address the now-rising ammonia level, their fishes will be subjected to toxic conditions of a mini-cycle. Without the membership knowing the all the aspects of using plants over cycling their tanks, it would be irresponsible for me to approve of this method if they did not know not to ever remove their plants -- or if they had a plant population die-off if, for example, they needed to raise their temp to a range that will "melt" some plant species, when needing to treat a disease. Yes, I'm sure most of the members are aware of Flourish Excel's limits -- and dangers if overdosed -- and I was not trying to use this as any kind of example of an ammonia substitute, as we all know it's liquid carbon. As for "overdosing" (and it's possible with any product when not being careful), there are more milder products (even including some meds) such as this, which if used improperly (overdosed) can be equally toxic to fishes. Nothing should be purposely overdosed for any reason. This product (Flourish Excel) has been covered on this List many times in the past. It may be used at normal dosage as a plant food (of another type), especially in the absence of a CO2 injector -- can even be used to control some algae, but this is getting off the thread. Even in normal dosages though, as has been explained here also a number of times, it will melt Valisneria and Anacharis/Elodea. Ray . </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53751	From: mumof2_86	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in august. sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world to me :) Elly xx

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53752	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Hi Dawn, While using plants to control the ammonia given off by fish cannot be consider in the farthest stretch of the imagination to be considered as "cycling" a tank, when it's the plants that are controlling the ammonia and not the bacteria, I agree that nitrifying bacteria would be present on their surfaces if they were removed from an established tank -- and rinsed appropriately with tank water. You also made a good point when stating, "The key in using this method is in understanding the plants and the balance needed for plants and fish (waste). Just as you also said though, you've "seen many references to people keeping planted tanks and see a lack of understanding in what makes up a 'fully planted' tank vs just a planted tank." You also stress that it takes a lot of plants to utilize a small amount of waste, which many of us realize, but unfortunately all to few -- and all of what you've said contributes to one major point I am trying go make -- that most members here don't realize that it takes a good many plants to consume relatively little ammonia, and that they need a well-planted tank to control the ammonia. Further, most hobbyists do not have a full understanding, not only of what makes up a fully [lanted tank, but they have no concept in what makes a balance of plants and fish (waste). It's for this reason, I cannot endorse such a method on these Lists, as without the hobbyists having an undertanding of it, they're prone to failure. . As I stated in my previous post, a fully planted tank is subjective, subject to that particular hobbyist's planting preferences in the amount of plants one uses. There is no formula or even rough guideline for them to follow in attempting any kind of balance, and unfortunately they themselves don't have the first clue. But, even if this "balance" were accidentally found, this would still not constitute having a nitrogen cycle in the tank -- at least not one that can come close to utilizing the ammonia given off by a normal stocking of fishes if these bacteria needed to be relied upon to do this job themselves. What would happen if the heater stuck on long enough to kill many of the plants but not cook the fishes (and there are many plants that suffer before 90 o is reached)? I don't think I need to tell you; without the needed amount of plants, and with grossly inadequate bacteria populations, the ammonia is going to rise at rate directly dependent on the amount of fish in the tank (many hobbyists stock at levels more towards the limit rather than more sparsely, even if they don't exceed it). A full cycle of nitrifying bacteria, on the other hand, will survive until 120 o, although of course by that time every fish will be dead -- but the point here is that these bacteria will survive temperatures where they and fish will make it through while many plants will perish. A tank will still stay fully cycled at 90 o -- if of course, it was cycled in the firtst place -- and so will most fishes survive, provided the alert hobbyist is aware enough to pull the heater plug. Nitrifying bacteria actually thrive best at 86 o, although we seldom want our fish up in that range. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53753	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

Hi Elly, Can you tell us how many Goldfish are in the tank & also could you measure the tank [height/depth/width] please? That will enable us to work out a cleaning regime for you. Does the tank have a filter running just now? What water treatment are you using? If possible could you also post a couple of pictures-that would be great. Meantime have a look at this: http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-basics.html Let us know if you have any queries about anything! John*<o)))< * On 11 July 2012 21:09, mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > ** > > > hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > Elly > xx > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53754	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

This is all extremely interesting reading because it is completely new to me-I didn't know there were *any* plants that consumed ammonia. Can I just confirm what you are all saying here-that using a heavily planted tank as a method of removing ammonia from the water is essentially 'temporarily cycled state' & that if the plants were removed then would the tank immediately go into a regular cycle with spiking ammonia & then nitrite before settling down? A couple more layman's questions: Are there also plants that eat nitrite & are these the same [or some of the same] plants as those that eat ammonia? Furthermore are these plants the same [or some of the same] plants that would ordinarily eat the nitrate in tank that has been cycled in the regular way? John*<o)))< * On 11 July 2012 22:26, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Dawn, > > While using plants to control the ammonia given off by fish cannot be > consider in the farthest stretch of the imagination to be considered as > "cycling" > a tank, when it's the plants that are controlling the ammonia and not the > bacteria, I agree that nitrifying bacteria would be present on their > surfaces > if they were removed from an established tank -- and rinsed appropriately > with tank water. You also made a good point when stating, "The key in > using > this method is in understanding the plants and the balance needed for > plants > and fish (waste). Just as you also said though, you've "seen many > references to people keeping planted tanks and see a lack of understanding > in what > makes up a 'fully planted' tank vs just a planted tank." > > You also stress that it takes a lot of plants to utilize a small amount of > waste, which many of us realize, but unfortunately all to few -- and all > of > what you've said contributes to one major point I am trying go make -- > that > most members here don't realize that it takes a good many plants to > consume > relatively little ammonia, and that they need a well-planted tank to > control > the ammonia. Further, most hobbyists do not have a full understanding, not > only of what makes up a fully [lanted tank, but they have no concept in > what makes a balance of plants and fish (waste). It's for this reason, I > cannot endorse such a method on these Lists, as without the hobbyists > having an > undertanding of it, they're prone to failure. . > > As I stated in my previous post, a fully planted tank is subjective, > subject to that particular hobbyist's planting preferences in the amount > of plants > one uses. There is no formula or even rough guideline for them to follow > in attempting any kind of balance, and unfortunately they themselves don't > have the first clue. > > But, even if this "balance" were accidentally found, this would still not > constitute having a nitrogen cycle in the tank -- at least not one that > can > come close to utilizing the ammonia given off by a normal stocking of > fishes > if these bacteria needed to be relied upon to do this job themselves. What > would happen if the heater stuck on long enough to kill many of the plants > but not cook the fishes (and there are many plants that suffer before 90 o > is > reached)? I don't think I need to tell you; without the needed amount of > plants, and with grossly inadequate bacteria populations, the ammonia is > going to rise at rate directly dependent on the amount of fish in the tank > (many > hobbyists stock at levels more towards the limit rather than more > sparsely, > even if they don't exceed it). A full cycle of nitrifying bacteria, on the > other hand, will survive until 120 o, although of course by that time > every > fish will be dead -- but the point here is that these bacteria will > survive > temperatures where they and fish will make it through while many plants > will perish. A tank will still stay fully cycled at 90 o -- if of course, > it > was cycled in the firtst place -- and so will most fishes survive, > provided > the alert hobbyist is aware enough to pull the heater plug. Nitrifying > bacteria actually thrive best at 86 o, although we seldom want our fish up > in > that range. > > Ray</HTML> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53755	From: Brian	Date: 7/11/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. ...Brian in PA mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in august. > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world to me :) > >Elly >xx >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53756	From: leehinckle@gmail.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Charles, Lee, > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53757	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: sodium thiosulfate (pentahydrate) for de-chlorination of tap wat

I expect you're probably getting it as cheaply as you can. I use - well, it's in the next room, and I have to go to work. The bottled stuff for aquariums. Dora On 7/10/2012 4:05 PM, Paul wrote: > > The source I used to get this from raised his price. I can get it > cheaper on Ebay but wonder is there are different concentrations of > the crystals, or is the standard 99% pure. I don't want to use too > much or too little. > > Paul > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53758	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Hi Lee, I'd seriously suggest your getting at least an ammonia test kit. A master test kit containing most of the important individual test kits are available for $20 or less, though; this is an API (Aquarium Pharmaceutical Inc.) master test kit, which is good quality and easy to "read" the colors. This is the only way you have, to be able to know exactly what the parameters of your tap water and your aquarium water are, and the test results are essential to be able to keep your fish in a healthy state, in good water conditions. I see you do have a pH test kit though, and you state yopur pH is very high. Further, your local pet shop also told you the area's water's pH is very high. They are correct in telling you that don't have to (and shouldn't) worry about it -- PROVIDED that you keep up with a regular regimen of doing sufficient PWC's at sufficient intervals so as not to allow the organic waste products of the fishes to elevate to toxic levels. As you have no other test kits besides one for pH, at this time, you can't know the condition of your water and what waste products might be in it. The monthly partial water changes are rarely frequently enough to maintain a tank's water in proper enough condition to promote the health of fishes. You don't say how large of a partial water change you do monthly, but the general rule of thumb for a properly (and not excessively) stocked tank is to do between 25% and 33% PWC's weekly. I'm highly suspecting that your too infrequent PWC's have resulted in an increase of at least one of the organic waste products normally found in the nitrogen cycle at one stage or another. If for some reason your nitrogen cycle isn't working properly (as possibly being interrupted), your ammonia may well have increase to toxic levels. The higher the pH, the more toxic the ammonium/ammonia becomes, as more Free Ammonia is released from the Total Ammonia (combination, ammonium and ammonia) due to the increase in pH. Ammonia is highly toxic to fish -- and Nitrite is even more toxic. Even nitrate can reach toxic levels when insufficient PWC's aren't performed, and monthly PWC's are fasr from frequent enough. Without changing enough water, you may eventually expect your fish to get illness -- Fungus certainly being one of them. High levels of contaminents (organic waste products not being removed) will stress fish to the point of weakening them, causing them to contract these illnesses. As you don't have any other test kits on hand at the moment, I can only advise you to make a series of small PWC's over the course of the next several days, replacing whatever salt you remove when taking out water. As soon as you get your test kits -- and you need to check if the nitrite and nitrate kits are provided in the master test kit (one of them needs to be bought separately, but I don't recall which one) -- do your tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and give us the results -- in numbers. For now, without reducing the suspected contaminents, you're risking that their levels may even reach beyond toxicity to lethal. If by some strange chance that you water contains very little contaminents (which I doubt), the PWC's will never be harmful to your fishes, so it will never be done in vain, but it's your best bet now to help your fishes without knowing your water's condition. I notice you are doing PWC's evey day lately, because of the hot weather. The water you add should never be more than 2 o cooler that that of your tank. Any greater difference can also stress your fishes. After the new water is added, you may help cool the aquarium more slowly by placing an electric fan at one end and letting it blow across the surface, unless you have a full light fixture over it. The fan will evaporate the surface water, inducing some cooling effect. Some hobbyist use zip lock bags with ice in it, but here you need to balance how much ice as compared to the size of the tank. For smaller tanks, you shouldn't use too much ice. Another method is to place a soda bottle half full of frozen water into the tank, with lots of circulation in the tank. This should only be done in larger aquariums, and even then, the thermometer should be monitored to prevent the temperature from dropping too far and too fast. The aquarium should never be allowed to drop in temperature more than 4 or 5 degrees (slowly) in one day, as without you being there to help in cooling it off during the night, it will only rise again and this fluctuation is also stressful. BTW, please give us the size of your tank. If there is any procedure outlined here as being adverse to what one should do, and if you've done any of these wrong procedures, let us know to inform us further in offering advice. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53759	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: JD fry die off

Hi, I have two pairs of Jack Dempseys who have had a couple of broods each. Each brood has simply died off after 2- 3 days. Does anyone have any thoughts about what might be causing this. ~Tamara

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53760	From: rustybar@sbcglobal.net	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: JD fry die off

Hi Tamara. Yeah hate when that happens. Are the fry being fed? If so, what and how often? Water parameters? Sort of need more info. Are the fry dying or disappearing as if becoming food for someone? Rusty On Jul 12, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Tamara Burnett wrote: > > Hi, > > I have two pairs of Jack Dempseys who have had a couple of broods each. Each > brood has simply died off after 2- 3 days. Does anyone have any thoughts > about what might be causing this. > > ~Tamara > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53761	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite unhappy... and probably not live very long.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@... wrote: > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53762	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

Good call on the box filters Brian, Just after Christmas 2004 three of my four Goldfish were dumped on me when they were babies. I knew nothing at all about aquatics but used a couple of cheap corner box filters running off an airpump for several months until I found out I needed to massively upgrade my 15 gallon tank. However-while not an ideal situation by any means I'm convinced these small, simple & cheap filters filled with white polyester foam saved my fish who are now enormous & currently charging around their 100 gallon tank right next to me making lots of noise as they make light work of their supper! John*<o)))< * On 12 July 2012 03:04, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but > not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been > plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had > a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just > a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a > piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full > of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the > water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with > the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace > the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the > top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it > might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is > pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine > shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in > or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for > your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are > probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a > large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air > pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these > filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. > > Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the > old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use > charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. > > ...Brian in PA > > mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > > >Elly > >xx > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53763	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Hi Ray, Here in the UK the API Master Test Kit contains both nitrite & nitrate tests, has done for at least 7 years since i have been buying them. The full list of what they contain is 5 separate tests: pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate. John*<o)))< * On 12 July 2012 18:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Lee, > > I'd seriously suggest your getting at least an ammonia test kit. A master > test kit containing most of the important individual test kits are > available > for $20 or less, though; this is an API (Aquarium Pharmaceutical Inc.) > master test kit, which is good quality and easy to "read" the colors. This > is > the only way you have, to be able to know exactly what the parameters of > your > tap water and your aquarium water are, and the test results are essential > to be able to keep your fish in a healthy state, in good water conditions. > > I see you do have a pH test kit though, and you state yopur pH is very > high. Further, your local pet shop also told you the area's water's pH is > very > high. They are correct in telling you that don't have to (and shouldn't) > worry about it -- PROVIDED that you keep up with a regular regimen of > doing > sufficient PWC's at sufficient intervals so as not to allow the organic > waste > products of the fishes to elevate to toxic levels. As you have no other > test kits besides one for pH, at this time, you can't know the condition > of > your water and what waste products might be in it. > > The monthly partial water changes are rarely frequently enough to maintain > a tank's water in proper enough condition to promote the health of fishes. > You don't say how large of a partial water change you do monthly, but the > general rule of thumb for a properly (and not excessively) stocked tank is > to > do between 25% and 33% PWC's weekly. I'm highly suspecting that your too > infrequent PWC's have resulted in an increase of at least one of the > organic > waste products normally found in the nitrogen cycle at one stage or > another. > If for some reason your nitrogen cycle isn't working properly (as possibly > being interrupted), your ammonia may well have increase to toxic levels. > The higher the pH, the more toxic the ammonium/ammonia becomes, as more > Free > Ammonia is released from the Total Ammonia (combination, ammonium and > ammonia) due to the increase in pH. Ammonia is highly toxic to fish -- and > Nitrite > is even more toxic. Even nitrate can reach toxic levels when insufficient > PWC's aren't performed, and monthly PWC's are fasr from frequent enough. > > Without changing enough water, you may eventually expect your fish to get > illness -- Fungus certainly being one of them. High levels of contaminents > (organic waste products not being removed) will stress fish to the point > of > weakening them, causing them to contract these illnesses. As you don't > have > any other test kits on hand at the moment, I can only advise you to make a > series of small PWC's over the course of the next several days, replacing > whatever salt you remove when taking out water. As soon as you get your > test > kits -- and you need to check if the nitrite and nitrate kits are provided > in > the master test kit (one of them needs to be bought separately, but I > don't > recall which one) -- do your tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate > and > give us the results -- in numbers. For now, without reducing the suspected > contaminents, you're risking that their levels may even reach beyond > toxicity to lethal. If by some strange chance that you water contains very > little > contaminents (which I doubt), the PWC's will never be harmful to your > fishes, so it will never be done in vain, but it's your best bet now to > help your > fishes without knowing your water's condition. > > I notice you are doing PWC's evey day lately, because of the hot weather. > The water you add should never be more than 2 o cooler that that of your > tank. Any greater difference can also stress your fishes. After the new > water > is added, you may help cool the aquarium more slowly by placing an > electric > fan at one end and letting it blow across the surface, unless you have a > full light fixture over it. The fan will evaporate the surface water, > inducing some cooling effect. Some hobbyist use zip lock bags with ice in > it, but > here you need to balance how much ice as compared to the size of the tank. > For smaller tanks, you shouldn't use too much ice. Another method is to > place a soda bottle half full of frozen water into the tank, with lots of > circulation in the tank. This should only be done in larger aquariums, and > even > then, the thermometer should be monitored to prevent the temperature from > dropping too far and too fast. The aquarium should never be allowed to > drop > in temperature more than 4 or 5 degrees (slowly) in one day, as without > you > being there to help in cooling it off during the night, it will only rise > again and this fluctuation is also stressful. BTW, please give us the size > of your tank. If there is any procedure outlined here as being adverse to > what one should do, and if you've done any of these wrong procedures, let > us > know to inform us further in offering advice. > > Ray</HTML> > _ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53764	From: m davis	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

I have 3 tanks with goldfish and use nylon sponges as filters. works quite well; very cheap; i get 10 sponges for a dollar at dollar tree; every month i take the sponges out, rinse them a abait and stick 'em back in the filters. tanks have been going strong for 3 years. and my little boogers are spoiled silly   ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ Good call on the box filters Brian,   Just after Christmas 2004 three of my four Goldfish were dumped on me when they were babies. I knew nothing at all about aquatics but used a couple of cheap corner box filters running off an airpump for several months until I found out I needed to massively upgrade my 15 gallon tank. However-while not an ideal situation by any means I'm convinced these small, simple & cheap filters filled with white polyester foam saved my fish who are now enormous & currently charging around their 100 gallon tank right next to me making lots of noise as they make light work of their supper!   John*<o)))< * On 12 July 2012 03:04, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but > not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been > plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had > a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just > a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a > piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full > of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the > water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with > the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace > the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the > top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it > might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is > pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine > shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in > or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for > your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are > probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a > large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air > pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these > filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. > > Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the > old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use > charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. > > ...Brian in PA > > mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > > >Elly > >xx > > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53765	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Another option is sealed plastic frozen water bottles. I have been doing this for close to ten years and works great. no need to worry about pretreating water as it stays in the container and it thaws at slower pace from what I have observed. Mike -----Original Message----- From: al_keep_fish@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite unhappy... and probably not live very long.. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@... wrote: > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53766	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

how much can it cost to treat a bottle or tupperware container of water just in case though mike?....its not an option for them though... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Another option is sealed plastic frozen water bottles. I have been doing this for close to ten years and works great. no need to worry about pretreating water as it stays in the container and it thaws at slower pace from what I have observed. > > Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: al_keep_fish@... > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! > > > > bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite unhappy... and probably not live very long.. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > > > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > > > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > > > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > > > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > > > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53767	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Thank you Al, I admit I missed that part of the post :/ Mike -----Original Message----- From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:48 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! how much can it cost to treat a bottle or tupperware container of water just in case though mike?....its not an option for them though... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Another option is sealed plastic frozen water bottles. I have been doing this for close to ten years and works great. no need to worry about pretreating water as it stays in the container and it thaws at slower pace from what I have observed. > > Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: al_keep_fish@... > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! > > > > bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite unhappy... and probably not live very long.. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > > > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > > > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > > > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > > > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > > > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 td{color: black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53768	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/12/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi all, very interesting to me too: I did not know that plants help with the ammonia/nitrite reduction. That might explain why my first tank became overnight stable after I added more new plants in the evening. I had thought I had improved the filter but probably the amount of live plants was the solution :) Somebody recommended before NOT to use API Co2 booster... Is it very bad? I had used it a couple of times on my new tank but noticed that the substance (glutaral) was smelly. Is it bad for the fish or only for some plants? What should one use if at all? I stopped adding CO2 for now because it seems all I needed were root tablets and the plants are growing again. But it would be nice to know what is considered safe? Are the CO2 tablets from "Jungle" better? Does anybody know the plant supplement FlorinMulit from Brightwell Aquaricts? I had added those drops for a while but they seem to do nothing for the plants while the root tablets had a huge effect. It would be great to get more info about what products are good or not if possible.... Thanks a lot, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > This is all extremely interesting reading because it is completely new to > me-I didn't know there were *any* plants that consumed ammonia. Can I just > confirm what you are all saying here-that using a heavily planted tank as a > method of removing ammonia from the water is essentially 'temporarily > cycled state' & that if the plants were removed then would the tank > immediately go into a regular cycle with spiking ammonia & then nitrite > before settling down? > > A couple more layman's questions: > Are there also plants that eat nitrite & are these the same [or some of the > same] plants as those that eat ammonia? Furthermore are these plants the > same [or some of the same] plants that would ordinarily eat the nitrate in > tank that has been cycled in the regular way? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 11 July 2012 22:26, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > While using plants to control the ammonia given off by fish cannot be > > consider in the farthest stretch of the imagination to be considered as > > "cycling" > > a tank, when it's the plants that are controlling the ammonia and not the > > bacteria, I agree that nitrifying bacteria would be present on their > > surfaces > > if they were removed from an established tank -- and rinsed appropriately > > with tank water. You also made a good point when stating, "The key in > > using > > this method is in understanding the plants and the balance needed for > > plants > > and fish (waste). Just as you also said though, you've "seen many > > references to people keeping planted tanks and see a lack of understanding > > in what > > makes up a 'fully planted' tank vs just a planted tank." > > > > You also stress that it takes a lot of plants to utilize a small amount of > > waste, which many of us realize, but unfortunately all to few -- and all > > of > > what you've said contributes to one major point I am trying go make -- > > that > > most members here don't realize that it takes a good many plants to > > consume > > relatively little ammonia, and that they need a well-planted tank to > > control > > the ammonia. Further, most hobbyists do not have a full understanding, not > > only of what makes up a fully [lanted tank, but they have no concept in > > what makes a balance of plants and fish (waste). It's for this reason, I > > cannot endorse such a method on these Lists, as without the hobbyists > > having an > > undertanding of it, they're prone to failure. . > > > > As I stated in my previous post, a fully planted tank is subjective, > > subject to that particular hobbyist's planting preferences in the amount > > of plants > > one uses. There is no formula or even rough guideline for them to follow > > in attempting any kind of balance, and unfortunately they themselves don't > > have the first clue. > > > > But, even if this "balance" were accidentally found, this would still not > > constitute having a nitrogen cycle in the tank -- at least not one that > > can > > come close to utilizing the ammonia given off by a normal stocking of > > fishes > > if these bacteria needed to be relied upon to do this job themselves. What > > would happen if the heater stuck on long enough to kill many of the plants > > but not cook the fishes (and there are many plants that suffer before 90 o > > is > > reached)? I don't think I need to tell you; without the needed amount of > > plants, and with grossly inadequate bacteria populations, the ammonia is > > going to rise at rate directly dependent on the amount of fish in the tank > > (many > > hobbyists stock at levels more towards the limit rather than more > > sparsely, > > even if they don't exceed it). A full cycle of nitrifying bacteria, on the > > other hand, will survive until 120 o, although of course by that time > > every > > fish will be dead -- but the point here is that these bacteria will > > survive > > temperatures where they and fish will make it through while many plants > > will perish. A tank will still stay fully cycled at 90 o -- if of course, > > it > > was cycled in the firtst place -- and so will most fishes survive, > > provided > > the alert hobbyist is aware enough to pull the heater plug. Nitrifying > > bacteria actually thrive best at 86 o, although we seldom want our fish up > > in > > that range. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53769	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

hi john, there are 2 goldfish and a wee eel type fish. H39W40D29cm. there is nothing in there are the moment cleaning the water as the nursery didnt give me anything as they stopped using the filter they had but i think it was because of the cleaning but im not getting into that as i have my own tank which is in perfect nick :) Water treatment at the moment is just tap safe and gold fish enrichment which i used for years on my own goldfish but i did have a filter in their tank hence why i think a small filter will help not havin to change their water once a week due to it getting extreamely dirty. thanks hope i have provided everything you need. ellyx To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: simmonds.john@... Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 01:13:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ Hi Elly, Can you tell us how many Goldfish are in the tank & also could you measure the tank [height/depth/width] please? That will enable us to work out a cleaning regime for you. Does the tank have a filter running just now? What water treatment are you using? If possible could you also post a couple of pictures-that would be great. Meantime have a look at this: http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-basics.html Let us know if you have any queries about anything! John*<o)))< * On 11 July 2012 21:09, mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > ** > > > hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > Elly > xx > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53770	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

hi Brian, thanks for you fantastic idea i had looked at a few of these on youtube the day i posted the ad :) i have to say i somehow would manage to mess this up as im pretty rubbish at making things of importance but also im not sure there would be enough room as it is a strange shaped tank. your idea is fab and i am very greatful foe you reply. thanks ellyx To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: kbgwp@... Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 22:04:59 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. ...Brian in PA mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in august. > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world to me :) > >Elly >xx > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53771	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

i forgot the picture sorry so here is it when i got them home the first day a few weeks ago :) sorry its sideways :/ also im really wondering about making the filter but as i mentioned to Brian im not sure if it would fir and also sorry if this sound dumb but how do you get the air into the tank (ive only ever used bought air pump/filters? thanksellyx To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: davis4000_2000@... Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ I have 3 tanks with goldfish and use nylon sponges as filters. works quite well; very cheap; i get 10 sponges for a dollar at dollar tree; every month i take the sponges out, rinse them a abait and stick 'em back in the filters. tanks have been going strong for 3 years. and my little boogers are spoiled silly ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ Good call on the box filters Brian, Just after Christmas 2004 three of my four Goldfish were dumped on me when they were babies. I knew nothing at all about aquatics but used a couple of cheap corner box filters running off an airpump for several months until I found out I needed to massively upgrade my 15 gallon tank. However-while not an ideal situation by any means I'm convinced these small, simple & cheap filters filled with white polyester foam saved my fish who are now enormous & currently charging around their 100 gallon tank right next to me making lots of noise as they make light work of their supper! John*<o)))< * On 12 July 2012 03:04, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but > not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been > plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had > a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just > a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a > piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full > of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the > water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with > the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace > the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the > top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it > might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is > pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine > shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in > or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for > your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are > probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a > large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air > pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these > filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. > > Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the > old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use > charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. > > ...Brian in PA > > mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > > >Elly > >xx > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53772	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

hi again sorry to keep posting i found the name of the tank its marina cool 21L blue i managed to find it on amazon fo manage to find out the info on it. thanks again xTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: davis4000_2000@... Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ I have 3 tanks with goldfish and use nylon sponges as filters. works quite well; very cheap; i get 10 sponges for a dollar at dollar tree; every month i take the sponges out, rinse them a abait and stick 'em back in the filters. tanks have been going strong for 3 years. and my little boogers are spoiled silly ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ Good call on the box filters Brian, Just after Christmas 2004 three of my four Goldfish were dumped on me when they were babies. I knew nothing at all about aquatics but used a couple of cheap corner box filters running off an airpump for several months until I found out I needed to massively upgrade my 15 gallon tank. However-while not an ideal situation by any means I'm convinced these small, simple & cheap filters filled with white polyester foam saved my fish who are now enormous & currently charging around their 100 gallon tank right next to me making lots of noise as they make light work of their supper! John*<o)))< * On 12 July 2012 03:04, Brian <kbgwp@...> wrote: > ** > > > I used a homemade, air-powered filter in a 10 gallon aquarium before but > not with goldfish. This filter was simply a glass jar (could have been > plastic) that had a short piece of PVC pipe going down into the jar. I had > a 90 degree elbow on the bottom but I don't think that was necessary. Just > a tube for the bubbles to come through and carry water along. Then I put a > piece of airline tubing at the bottom of the pipe and filled the jar full > of aquarium gravel. When submerged in the tank, the air bubbles in the > water at the bottom of the jar and moves a little bit of water along with > the air. Water is draw into the top of the jar and travels down to replace > the water flowing out the PVC outlet tube. Filter floss could be put on the > top to help filter it better if needed. This isn't a powerful filter but it > might help some especially once the bacteria find their new home. It is > pretty cheap and easy to make. Works good for raising baby fish or brine > shimp since there is no pump to harm them and the fish don't get sucked in > or stuck to the filter inlet. I don't think this idea will be enough for > your goldfish but it might help some. Goldfish are kind of messy so you are > probably going to have to continue with the water changes. If you have a > large enough tank or container that the fish are in and a good enough air > pump (or a couple pumps), you could easily make more than one of these > filters. Not fancy but with colored gravel, it don't look real bad. > > Just an IDEA. No guarantees it's a good one. It is just a version of the > old style corner filters or the under gravel filter in a jar. You could use > charcoal and filter floss in this filter but I was going for CHEAP. > > ...Brian in PA > > mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > >hi we are looking after my sons nursey goldfish and i am having to clean > them out quite alot which i do not like doing due to having to treat their > water everytime and i dont want to end up killing them :( > > > >i will be giving the nursery the filter when i give them the fish back in > august. > > > >sadly i dont have the funds to just go out and buy one :( > > > >please if anyone can help it would be fantastic and would mean the world > to me :) > > > >Elly > >xx > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53773	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Nora, If you just have the normal types of green aquatic plants, you probably don't need any kind of CO2 tablets. If you were to use them, you probably woudn't see much of an improvement -- unless perhaps you increased your lighting somewhat. But then, there are many normal (green) plants that don't appreciate more lighting. If you feel you must try a CO2 additive, use FlourishExcel -- provided you don't have Valisneria or Anacharis, Elodea -- and use it at normal dosage as recommended only. CO2 additions, either as gas injection or in a solid supplement is primarily meant for growing the reddish varieties of many aquatic plants, and lighting is increased for these plants at the same time. They don't have as much chlorophyll in their leaves -- or it's masked by the red -- and need the extra lighting and nutrition to thrive. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53774	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Hi, regarding the replacement of salt in the tank: if you just replenish water that evaporated the salt will stay in the tank because it does not evaporate with the water. If you actively change the water than you have to add the fraction of the salt that you took out because it was dissolved in the water. I have not read every detail of this message tree so sorry if that came double... Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@... wrote: > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have ice to throw in either. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make PWC's if any > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish healthy, whether > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to possible > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not to subject > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from organic > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53775	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Live plants will always grab the ammonia faster than Nitrosomonas bacteria, always. It makes no difference if the tank is "cycled" before plants are added, or if the plants are introduced on day one. Once they are there, they need nitrogen and they use the ammonia/ammonium fast. The majority of aquarium plants do prefer ammonium as their nitrogen, and will use it if it is present. They turn to nitrates (and possibly nitrite, though the scientific studies on this are still sketchy) only if ammonium is not sufficient for their needs. And this means the light and other 16 nutrients have to be availalble in numbers needed by the various plants to fully photosynthesize. Walstad is a trained microbiologist who has written extensively on this subject. And every knowledgeable botanist/planted tank source will say the same. In my own experience, I have set up dozens of tanks in my 15+ years using plants. I never have ammonia or nitrite above zero, and the tanks run for years until I decide to tear them down, change the substrate, or whatever. Plants do also take up toxic ammonia as a toxin, over and above their need for it as a nutrient. And as Tom Barr, who is a professional aquatic botanist holding 2 or 3 degrees in the subject, has written, they can assimilate all the ammonia produced by fish and bacteria in a balanced aquarium. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Byron, > > With all due respect, it may just be that my rebuttal doesn't fit only with > your scrutiny -- although I'm open to anything I may have missed. But > first, as to some ammonia getting past the plants and establishing some > bacteria, even though at a lower level of population -- I've already said that, and > totally agree with it. This is a given, and a foregone conclusion. I > stated that; with plants using the ammonia, the nitrogen cycle will never get > established, as they'll (the bacteria, if you're following me) be largely > starved out. Note, I said "largely" starved out, not completely starved out. > So, sure, the relatively little ammonia left in the water column that the > plants don't consume will be eaten by the nitrifying bacteria -- and they will > multiply up to the point of what that small amount of ammonia will permit > them to do, to the extent of how much bacteria this smaller amount of food can > nourish them. > > And, while the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (in addition to the > ammonia-oxidizing bacteria) will also populate -- also, in much smaller amounts -- none > of these bacteria populations will be large enough to convert the organic > wastes of a normal bioload of fishes, as their populations will never be > allowed to reach the proportions needed. In effect, the tank will not be cycled > with a sufficient amount of bacteria to be considered as being able to > maintain the water in a toxic-free state for the fishes without the help of the > plants. Such a tank will never be fully cycled to the equivilent of being > able to convert all the fish waste, in the absence of ammonia-consuming plants, > if they were ever to perish or be removed/transplanted to other aquaria. > While live plants are a help in keeping the ammonia level down, I see them as > a tool not to be relied upon, as a replacement for nitrifying bacteria. > There are many hobbyists who just don't know which plants to use and which > plants not to use, when employing them as ammonia consumers (not all aquatic > plants can use ammonia as a food). > > Now, if the nitrifying bacteria were to be allowed to cycle to the > equivilent of converting the organic waste of the bioload of fishes present in the > tank, in the absence of these plants, there would be much larger populations > of the bacteria permitted to colonize the filter and all other surfaces. > While adding plants after a full cycle is allowed to be established will > reduce the amount of available ammonia, I have to disagree with you if your > position is that the plants will still sufficiently out-compete the bacteria for > this food, as to substantially reduce their numbers. With so much more > bacteria now present, as first being allowed to multiply, the shear numbers of > these bacteria would be able to use most -- although, of course, not all -- > the ammonia given off by the fishes, in a normally planted tank. A "normally > planted tank," however can not only be subjective, but if one purposely > overloads the tank with plants in efforts to use them to consume the ammoina > rather than the bacteria, then sure, any large multitude of ammonia-consuming > plants would hardly leave 0.01 ppm of ammonia left as bacteria food. > > If it's your choice to rely largely on plants to keep the ammonia in check, > that's your prerogative, but it's still my opinion that it's running a risk > not to have a fully cycled tank running, with sufficient populations of > nitrifying bacteria. I certainly cannot condone it on here, especially as for > one consideration, as these ammonia-consuming plants (even though they are > many) have not been identified to the membership, and, unless they're aware > that removing the full (or large portion) compliment of these plants will > result in the much smaller than needed populations of bacteria not being able > to address the now-rising ammonia level, their fishes will be subjected to > toxic conditions of a mini-cycle. Without the membership knowing the all the > aspects of using plants over cycling their tanks, it would be irresponsible > for me to approve of this method if they did not know not to ever remove > their plants -- or if they had a plant population die-off if, for example, they > needed to raise their temp to a range that will "melt" some plant species, > when needing to treat a disease. > > Yes, I'm sure most of the members are aware of Flourish Excel's limits -- > and dangers if overdosed -- and I was not trying to use this as any kind of > example of an ammonia substitute, as we all know it's liquid carbon. As for > "overdosing" (and it's possible with any product when not being careful), > there are more milder products (even including some meds) such as this, which > if used improperly (overdosed) can be equally toxic to fishes. Nothing > should be purposely overdosed for any reason. This product (Flourish Excel) > has been covered on this List many times in the past. It may be used at > normal dosage as a plant food (of another type), especially in the absence of a > CO2 injector -- can even be used to control some algae, but this is getting > off the thread. Even in normal dosages though, as has been explained here > also a number of times, it will melt Valisneria and Anacharis/Elodea. > > Ray > > . > > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53776	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

All tanks with live fish must cycle initially; Nitrosomonas and then Nitrospira bacteria appear and colonize surfaces as they do in any aquarium. The benefit of live plants--and again, this means well-planted with at least some fast-growing plants (stem plants, floating plants and plants such as Echinodorus (swords), Vallisneria, Hellanthium, etc)--is that there is no discernable ammonia or nitrite from day one, so the fish are not harmed by even low levels. If all the plants were to be removed, the existing bacteria present would then begin to multiply accordingly. I don't know why one would take out all the plants without also removing the fish, and i certainly wouldn't. Just as i would not deliberately do anything to upset the natural balance in an established aquarium. Walstad in her book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" writes of the preference for ammonia/ammonium over nitrate: Most aquatic plants studied, when presented with a choice between ammonium and nitrates as their nitrogen source, take up ammonium exclusively. Only when ammonium is unavailable do plants tanke up nitrates. ...Many aquatic plants have been found to prefer ammonium over nitrates, and the extent of this preference is substantial. For example, Elodea nuttallii growing in a mixture of ammonium and nitrates, removed 50% of the initial ammonium after 8 hours but few nitrates. Only when much of the ammonium was gone (i.e., at about 16 hours) did it begin to take up nitrates. Aquatic plants take up ammonium more quickly that nitrates. For example, the "turnover time" for ammonium (at 0.4 ppm N) in Pistia stratiotes was found to be just 4 hours, while nitrate turnover required a full 20 hours. Of 33 aquatic plant species investigated, most [29 species] were found to prefer ammonium over nitrates. [A list of the species is on p. 108.] Nitrite uptake by plants does occur; to cite from Walstad (p. 22 of her book): Although plants deefinitely can use nitrite as a nitrogen source, the pertinent question for aquarium hobbyists is--Do aquatic plants remove the toxic nitrite in preference to the non-toxic nitrate? No definitive answer to this question in the scientific literature is currently available. But when the duckweed Spirodela oligorrhiza was grown in media containing nitrate and nitrite, it clearly took up nitrite in preference to nitrate. When the same investigator grew S. oligorrhiza in media containing ammonium and nitrite, it removed both ions at approximately the same rate. These results indicate that aquatic plants might remove both the ammonium and nitrite equally in preference to nitrates. However, the results with S. oligorrhiza can probably not be generalized to other aquatic plants. This is because nitrite uptake and assimilation into proteins requires specific transporters and enzymes, whereas ammonium uptake does not. For example, the enzyme nitrite reductase required for duckweed Lemna minor to use nitrite must be induced. This induction can be blocked by ammonium suggesting that L. minor is one aquatic plant species that does not use nitrite if ammonium is available. In general, nitrite and nitrate are less desirable N sources than ammonium. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > This is all extremely interesting reading because it is completely new to > me-I didn't know there were *any* plants that consumed ammonia. Can I just > confirm what you are all saying here-that using a heavily planted tank as a > method of removing ammonia from the water is essentially 'temporarily > cycled state' & that if the plants were removed then would the tank > immediately go into a regular cycle with spiking ammonia & then nitrite > before settling down? > > A couple more layman's questions: > Are there also plants that eat nitrite & are these the same [or some of the > same] plants as those that eat ammonia? Furthermore are these plants the > same [or some of the same] plants that would ordinarily eat the nitrate in > tank that has been cycled in the regular way? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 11 July 2012 22:26, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > While using plants to control the ammonia given off by fish cannot be > > consider in the farthest stretch of the imagination to be considered as > > "cycling" > > a tank, when it's the plants that are controlling the ammonia and not the > > bacteria, I agree that nitrifying bacteria would be present on their > > surfaces > > if they were removed from an established tank -- and rinsed appropriately > > with tank water. You also made a good point when stating, "The key in > > using > > this method is in understanding the plants and the balance needed for > > plants > > and fish (waste). Just as you also said though, you've "seen many > > references to people keeping planted tanks and see a lack of understanding > > in what > > makes up a 'fully planted' tank vs just a planted tank." > > > > You also stress that it takes a lot of plants to utilize a small amount of > > waste, which many of us realize, but unfortunately all to few -- and all > > of > > what you've said contributes to one major point I am trying go make -- > > that > > most members here don't realize that it takes a good many plants to > > consume > > relatively little ammonia, and that they need a well-planted tank to > > control > > the ammonia. Further, most hobbyists do not have a full understanding, not > > only of what makes up a fully [lanted tank, but they have no concept in > > what makes a balance of plants and fish (waste). It's for this reason, I > > cannot endorse such a method on these Lists, as without the hobbyists > > having an > > undertanding of it, they're prone to failure. . > > > > As I stated in my previous post, a fully planted tank is subjective, > > subject to that particular hobbyist's planting preferences in the amount > > of plants > > one uses. There is no formula or even rough guideline for them to follow > > in attempting any kind of balance, and unfortunately they themselves don't > > have the first clue. > > > > But, even if this "balance" were accidentally found, this would still not > > constitute having a nitrogen cycle in the tank -- at least not one that > > can > > come close to utilizing the ammonia given off by a normal stocking of > > fishes > > if these bacteria needed to be relied upon to do this job themselves. What > > would happen if the heater stuck on long enough to kill many of the plants > > but not cook the fishes (and there are many plants that suffer before 90 o > > is > > reached)? I don't think I need to tell you; without the needed amount of > > plants, and with grossly inadequate bacteria populations, the ammonia is > > going to rise at rate directly dependent on the amount of fish in the tank > > (many > > hobbyists stock at levels more towards the limit rather than more > > sparsely, > > even if they don't exceed it). A full cycle of nitrifying bacteria, on the > > other hand, will survive until 120 o, although of course by that time > > every > > fish will be dead -- but the point here is that these bacteria will > > survive > > temperatures where they and fish will make it through while many plants > > will perish. A tank will still stay fully cycled at 90 o -- if of course, > > it > > was cycled in the firtst place -- and so will most fishes survive, > > provided > > the alert hobbyist is aware enough to pull the heater plug. Nitrifying > > bacteria actually thrive best at 86 o, although we seldom want our fish up > > in > > that range. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53777	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

John, If you would prefer to call a heavily planted tank "cycled" at all, in any possible state, it might be more correct to consider it partially cycled rather than temporarily cycled. After all, the tank would be cycled only to the extent that the small quantity of ammonium left in the water column (after the plants consumed most of it) would never permit a cycle large enough (having sufficient populations of bacteria) to oxidize the amount of ammonia/ammonium produced by the fish in a normally stocked tank in the plants absence, if they were ever to be removed. You are assuming correctly though, no matter terminology we use for the cycle at this stage; with removing the plants and with the subsequent increase in ammonia because of this, the tank would immediately start to go into a regular cycle -- with the ammonia spiking near the 10 day period and the nitrite spiking near the 20 day period before settling down. These time frames and the levels of these spikes would depend directly on the number of plants originally in the tank and the amount (percentage) of ammonia being produced by the fish, that they were consuming. Yes, aquatic plants preferring to eat ammonia and especially ammonium rather than nitrate will also eat nitrite (only as a second choice) and prefer it over nitrate as it's easier for them to convert nitrite to ammonium than it would be to convert nitrate to ammonium. Some of those aquatic plants having a preference for nitrate will consume nitrite, but not as their first choice. There still are those plants that prefer nitrate rather than ammonia, which prefer only nitrate -- and use very little (if ANY) nitrite. In a working cycle, there is usually some nitrate present -- and in a quantity much larger than that of nitrite -- unless the hobbyist does very large PWC's. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53778	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

no probb. Mike. I think we'd have to take this up as a part time job to take all of this thread in.... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > Thank you Al, > > I admit I missed that part of the post :/ > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:48 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! > > > > > > how much can it cost to treat a bottle or tupperware container of water > just in case though mike?....its not an option for them though... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > Another option is sealed plastic frozen water bottles. I have been > doing this for close to ten years and works great. no need to worry > about pretreating water as it stays in the container and it thaws at > slower pace from what I have observed. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: al_keep_fish@ > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! > > > > > > > > bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, > that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for > fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish > can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once > a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet > store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added > to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are > Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... > in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite > unhappy... and probably not live very long.. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, leehinckle@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this time I have no testing supplies for ammonia and nitrites as > soon as we have some money I will get a kit for that. I do have the ph. > The ph in this area is very high. I used a whole bottle of PH down > trying to get it down to the right level. Not all at once I used > according to the directions. I never did get it quite down to the right > level. When I went back into the pet store to get more I asked them > how many bottles will I have to use and how to keep it at the right > level. I was told the area water is very high in PH and as long as the > fish are not sick and doing well, I don't have to worry about it. At > that time they were all doing fine including the Molly. I do a partial > water change once a month and at that time I put the stuff in the water > for the chlorine. I have already put the salt in the tank like you said > per the information of the pet store person and she told me I don't > need to replace it once it is in the tank. All the other fish are > still looking good. The black Molly now does not look like ick but > some sort of fungus maybe or wounds but he still has white stuff coming > off of him. The water temp as been running around 85 to 90 depending > on the time of the day. I have not done anything to cool it off. All I > could do in the HOT part of the day is do water changes every day and > put in cooler water not sure if that is a good idea or not? We have a > VERY small freezer and have no room for even an ice tray so don't have > ice to throw in either. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles, Lee, > > > > > > > > > > > > I did mention to test for ammonia and nitrite -- and to make > PWC's if any > > > > > > are found. Clean water goes a lo o o ng way in keeping fish > healthy, whether > > > > > > they have Ich or any other malady such as I'm suspecting (due to > possible > > > > > > poor water conditions). The best way to keep fish healthy is not > to subject > > > > > > them to poor water conditions, but to keep their water free from > organic > > > > > > waste contaminents via regular PWC's. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 td{color: > black;} #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 > #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; > margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp hr { > border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #hd { > color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: > 122%; margin: 10px 0; } > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp #ads { > margin-bottom: 10px; } > #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 #ygrp-mkp .ad { > padding: 0 0; } #AOLMsgPart_1_e07ba84f-69b5-4de4-9811-6fc43fa4d800 > #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53779	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

Hi Elly, Thanks for the additional info & the measurements of your tank which works out at just under 12 gallons. That really is far too small for even one Goldfish as these animals need massive dilution to remain healthy for any length of time. However-I realise that this is not your choice to have these fish & you are simply looking after them in good faith so we will do what we can with what we have. Getting the water filtered must be your number one priority if these fish are to have a chance of longevity as high levels of toxic ammonia will be quickly building up in such a small tank & that means less & less oxygen until they suffocate. The home-made box filter that Brian suggested is an excellent idea & it is simple to run from an air pump. That will at least give the fish some degree of relief from the high toxic levels but you also need to drastically increase the amount of water changes that you are doing. Change about 30% of the water every 3 days & the new water needs to be temperature matched as well as treated. I'm sorry of this is sounding like a lot of work but unfortunately you have been temporarily lumbered with animals that have been inappropriately housed & are in need of some drastic maintenence to keep them from getting sick. The nursery needs to seriously upgrade their arrangements for these fish or they will not get to live anywhere near their full life span, if possible email the owners of the tank this link: http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-basics.html Thanks for sending the picture but unfortunately I cannot see it on the email, did you post it to the forum Photo Albums? John*<o)))< * On 13 July 2012 10:38, Eloise Dryburgh <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > i forgot the picture sorry so here is it when i got them home the first > day a few weeks ago :) sorry its sideways :/ also im really wondering > about making the filter but as i mentioned to Brian im not sure if it would > fir and also sorry if this sound dumb but how do you get the air into the > tank (ive only ever used bought air pump/filters? thanksellyx > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: davis4000_2000@... > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53780	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/13/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Hi Nora, Yes-both of those statements are true. John*<o)))< * On 13 July 2012 15:22, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, > > regarding the replacement of salt in the tank: > > if you just replenish water that evaporated the salt will stay in the tank > because it does not evaporate with the water. > If you actively change the water than you have to add the fraction of the > salt that you took out because it was dissolved in the water. > > I have not read every detail of this message tree so sorry if that came > double... > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53781	From: Tonya	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Thank you for the information about the Salt. maybe she was just taking someone's place in the fish area. I went to Petco. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > regarding the replacement of salt in the tank: > > if you just replenish water that evaporated the salt will stay in the tank because it does not evaporate with the water. > If you actively change the water than you have to add the fraction of the salt that you took out because it was dissolved in the water. > > I have not read every detail of this message tree so sorry if that came double... > Nora > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53782	From: Tonya	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a 55 gallon tank. I'm not sure how to judge how much water I have taken out to know how much salt to put back in? Is there an easy formula to figure this out or do I have to guess at it? I may be able to freeze some water in bags if I can make them flat so I will try and buy some freezer bags and try that. just thought of... I do have some Ice packs for lunches? Maybe I could use those through out the weekend. Also I did not choose the Mollie but my husband bought it for me as a surprise... he wanted to get me a fish since he knew I liked them. I can't rehome him sick like this. All I have is a gallon tank with air stone but no heater... don't need one in this heat. I could put it in there but that is the best I can do for him. Thanks! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > how much can it cost to treat a bottle or tupperware container of water > > just in case though mike?....its not an option for them though... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@ wrote: > > > > > > Another option is sealed plastic frozen water bottles. I have been > > doing this for close to ten years and works great. no need to worry > > about pretreating water as it stays in the container and it thaws at > > slower pace from what I have observed. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: al_keep_fish@ > > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Hot Fish! > > > > > > > > > > > > bummer on the small freezer... make sure if you ever do ice, > > that its treated water being frozen. i think ice is a better method for > > fish because its a far more gradual change than a water change. fish > > can be shocked by fast temperature changes. you do a water change once > > a month?... yikes... i change a 1/3 twice a week. oh and your pet > > store is wrong...the salt is mixed in the water so it needs to be added > > to the water that is changed... and yes...... salt... mollys are > > Brackish water fish... thats 1/2 way between fresh and salt water.... > > in my opinion that fish doesnt belong in that tank... and will be quite > > unhappy... and probably not live very long.. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53783	From: Andy Mills	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?

Hello, I've got 3 catfish who I would consider to be pretty old, but am wondering if anyone here knows how long they can actually live. 1. Synodontis angelica - have had since December 1997. 2. Sailfin pleco - have had since about November 1996, was pretty big when I got him so could have been a few years old at that time. 3. Striped talking (raphael) catfish - have had since February 1988 so is at least 24 years old, could even be more. The strange thing is when I first got this fish I didn't expect it to live long because we had an old tropical fish book at the time which said the fish needed live food at least 3 times a week to survive. As we didn't have a regular supply of live food at the time I didn't expect the fish to live, but he's still going strong and has survived all the usual beginner mistakes and a couple of heater failures. It seems to be quite difficult to find information on life span for fish and I'd just be interested to know if anyone has information on how long these fish can actually live.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53784	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?

Hi Andy, Have tried Planet Catfish? I have not been on their site in a year or so but they seemed to have good data on Catfish. Congrats on keeping them this long! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Andy Mills <andy.mills@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Jul 14, 2012 11:36 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live? Hello, I've got 3 catfish who I would consider to be pretty old, but am wondering if anyone here knows how long they can actually live. 1. Synodontis angelica - have had since December 1997. 2. Sailfin pleco - have had since about November 1996, was pretty big when I got him so could have been a few years old at that time. 3. Striped talking (raphael) catfish - have had since February 1988 so is at least 24 years old, could even be more. The strange thing is when I first got this fish I didn't expect it to live long because we had an old tropical fish book at the time which said the fish needed live food at least 3 times a week to survive. As we didn't have a regular supply of live food at the time I didn't expect the fish to live, but he's still going strong and has survived all the usual beginner mistakes and a couple of heater failures. It seems to be quite difficult to find information on life span for fish and I'd just be interested to know if anyone has information on how long these fish can actually live.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53785	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?

Synodontis can live over 30 years. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Mills Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:16 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live? Hello, I've got 3 catfish who I would consider to be pretty old, but am wondering if anyone here knows how long they can actually live. 1. Synodontis angelica - have had since December 1997. 2. Sailfin pleco - have had since about November 1996, was pretty big when I got him so could have been a few years old at that time. 3. Striped talking (raphael) catfish - have had since February 1988 so is at least 24 years old, could even be more. The strange thing is when I first got this fish I didn't expect it to live long because we had an old tropical fish book at the time which said the fish needed live food at least 3 times a week to survive. As we didn't have a regular supply of live food at the time I didn't expect the fish to live, but he's still going strong and has survived all the usual beginner mistakes and a couple of heater failures. It seems to be quite difficult to find information on life span for fish and I'd just be interested to know if anyone has information on how long these fish can actually live. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53786	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?

Hi Andy, Reports I've read indicate: Synodontis angelicus -- over 20 years Striped Raphael Catfish -- over 20 years (which we already know) ; I've had my pair since 1992 as small juveniles so, exactly 20 years, so far and going strong. You're doing better than I am. Sailfin (Leopard?) Pleco Catfish -- over 20 years; one report said closer to 30 years. As Mike said though, check with Planet Catfish for more accurate info -- and report back here in you find anything more definitive.. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53787	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Tonya, There's no "formula" that I know of -- just simple math. If you put a measuring tape up against a 55 gallon tank, you'll find it's about 20" high. As most aquaria aren't filled completely up to the top, but are down at least an inch to an inch and a half, there really isn't a full 55 gallons in them, Then too, your gravel takes up some space that the water would ordinarily take up. You probably have closer to about 50 gallons of water in the tank. If you figure on the tank having 18" of water, figure that the 9" high level will be 50% and the 13.5" high level will be the 75% full mark (if there were no gravel). To make a 25% PWC (about 12.5 gallons), draw the water down to about the 14" high mark and that should be close enough (depending on how much gravel and rocks you have). At that same time, you would be drawing out 25% of any salt you may have added, also. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53788	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/14/2012
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how long these types of catfish can live?

Hi Andy, I was going to suggest looking at Planet Catfish as well for your answers. Very well done for keeping them so long-it's good to know they are being well looked after. How big are they? John*<o)))< * On 14 July 2012 19:16, Andy Mills <andy.mills@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, I've got 3 catfish who I would consider to be pretty old, but am > wondering if anyone here knows how long they can actually live. > > 1. Synodontis angelica - have had since December 1997. > > 2. Sailfin pleco - have had since about November 1996, was pretty big > when I got him so could have been a few years old at that time. > > 3. Striped talking (raphael) catfish - have had since February 1988 so > is at least 24 years old, could even be more. The strange thing is when > I first got this fish I didn't expect it to live long because we had an > old tropical fish book at the time which said the fish needed live food > at least 3 times a week to survive. As we didn't have a regular supply > of live food at the time I didn't expect the fish to live, but he's > still going strong and has survived all the usual beginner mistakes and > a couple of heater failures. > > It seems to be quite difficult to find information on life span for fish > and I'd just be interested to know if anyone has information on how long > these fish can actually live. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53789	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Ray, thank you very much! Fortunately I only have the green types. So I will skip the CO2 for now. As you said it did not seem to do much. After I used the root tablet I could see a huge improvement but the water was cloudy for hours. Is that ok for the fish? I probably will need to add root tablets in regular intervals to ensure the plant growth. Is there a negative side effect on the aquarium? Thanks again, Nora P.S. I see a lot of messages from your account again, I am glad we have you back :) Could you get a new computer or is it working better again? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > If you just have the normal types of green aquatic plants, you probably > don't need any kind of CO2 tablets. If you were to use them, you probably > woudn't see much of an improvement -- unless perhaps you increased your lighting > somewhat. But then, there are many normal (green) plants that don't > appreciate more lighting. If you feel you must try a CO2 additive, use > FlourishExcel -- provided you don't have Valisneria or Anacharis, Elodea -- and use it > at normal dosage as recommended only. CO2 additions, either as gas > injection or in a solid supplement is primarily meant for growing the reddish > varieties of many aquatic plants, and lighting is increased for these plants at > the same time. They don't have as much chlorophyll in their leaves -- or > it's masked by the red -- and need the extra lighting and nutrition to thrive. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53790	From: Tricia Garner	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Hot Fish!

Tonya, I always know how much water I have removed because I syphon it into an ordinary builders-type bucket which has the measurements marked on the inside. Use the same bucket for the replacement water, which makes it easy to calculate how much conditioner to add. HTH, Tricia You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive. On 14 Jul, in article <jtrp5b+i8q1@...>, Tonya <t_cokenour@...> wrote: > Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a 55 gallon tank. I'm not sure > how to judge how much water I have taken out to know how much salt > to put back in? Is there an easy formula to figure this out or do > I have to guess at it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53791	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Nora, You haven't mentioned what kind of root tablet fertilizers you're using. I'm sure you know not to use root tablets designed for terrestrial/house plants. Then too, the various kinds/brands of aquarium root tab ferts may have different ingredients and/or can react differently in the substrate, with some releasing nutrients into the water column. Sometimes this release is very dependent upon how you use the tablets -- how well you re-cover the substrate over the tabs after you push them down between the roots. Some root tab fertilizers will even release part of their ammonium content into the water column, resulting in a partial mini-cycle as bacteria will feed on it right in mid water. This may be the cloudiness you see. As the plants can't take up all of this suuden addition of fertilizers all at once, you need to push the tablets down into the substrate a good distance. Chopping them in pieces is also a good idea rather than leaving them as a whole tablet. Aquarium-designed "Plant-Tabs" are formulated quite well, and are safe for fish. I've never had nothing but good results wih them whenever I've used them. I'm glad to hear, that you're glad to see more of me on here lately. As it's much more difficult for me to get up on the Home Page right now to reply or post from there, I've decided to reply right to the Yahoogroup emails received at my email in-box. The major problem with this is that the message I'm reply to doesn't appear under mine. The reader must first read the Subject Line to make sure to know which thread is being replied to. I have to make sure to address everyone by name, at the start of my messages, so that it's unmistakeable who I'm replying to (which I try to usually do anyway). The previous message may need to be gone back to though and read again, if it gets difficult to follow what I'm replying to. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53792	From: hrv_7103	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Fresh Water Aquarium Fish

Dear All, Please give me details of Fresh water fish supplier in india.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53793	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Hi all, in the previous discussion about the effect of plants on the water quality it was mentioned that a well planted tank is often mistaken for a full planted tank. Does anybody have some pictures of full versus/and well planted tanks or knows where to find them? Thanks, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53794	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Ray, it is great you found a way of answering/participating with less computer trouble! Thanks for the info about root tablets! Yes, I used aquarium root tablets and maybe I did not push them deep enough into the gravel. With all the plants in the gravel I do not vacuum the gravel anymore which means a rather big cloud comes out whenever I disturb the gravel. So I hardly change anything and probably added the tablets too shallow (I will push them in deeper next time). The water and fish seem great without the "vacuum cleaning" so I hope that is ok and works for the tank also for a longer time ?! I do the same for our second 10 G with same results for now. I wonder: why is cleaning the gravel with the siphon usually recommended? Is it important or an option and with plants less urgent? Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > You haven't mentioned what kind of root tablet fertilizers you're using. > I'm sure you know not to use root tablets designed for terrestrial/house > plants. Then too, the various kinds/brands of aquarium root tab ferts may have > different ingredients and/or can react differently in the substrate, with > some releasing nutrients into the water column. Sometimes this release is > very dependent upon how you use the tablets -- how well you re-cover the > substrate over the tabs after you push them down between the roots. > > Some root tab fertilizers will even release part of their ammonium content > into the water column, resulting in a partial mini-cycle as bacteria will > feed on it right in mid water. This may be the cloudiness you see. As the > plants can't take up all of this suuden addition of fertilizers all at once, > you need to push the tablets down into the substrate a good distance. > Chopping them in pieces is also a good idea rather than leaving them as a whole > tablet. Aquarium-designed "Plant-Tabs" are formulated quite well, and are > safe for fish. I've never had nothing but good results wih them whenever I've > used them. > > I'm glad to hear, that you're glad to see more of me on here lately. As > it's much more difficult for me to get up on the Home Page right now to reply > or post from there, I've decided to reply right to the Yahoogroup emails > received at my email in-box. The major problem with this is that the message > I'm reply to doesn't appear under mine. The reader must first read the > Subject Line to make sure to know which thread is being replied to. I have to > make sure to address everyone by name, at the start of my messages, so that > it's unmistakeable who I'm replying to (which I try to usually do anyway). > The previous message may need to be gone back to though and read again, if it > gets difficult to follow what I'm replying to. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53795	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Without plants to consume the toxins, the mulm in the gravel pollutes the tank. If the plants are consuming all of the toxins, then no pollution. The problem would be if the plants were consuming only part of the toxins. Keep an eye on your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates when that big cloud is in the tank, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nonstopmom888 Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info? Hi Ray, it is great you found a way of answering/participating with less computer trouble! Thanks for the info about root tablets! Yes, I used aquarium root tablets and maybe I did not push them deep enough into the gravel. With all the plants in the gravel I do not vacuum the gravel anymore which means a rather big cloud comes out whenever I disturb the gravel. So I hardly change anything and probably added the tablets too shallow (I will push them in deeper next time). The water and fish seem great without the "vacuum cleaning" so I hope that is ok and works for the tank also for a longer time ?! I do the same for our second 10 G with same results for now. I wonder: why is cleaning the gravel with the siphon usually recommended? Is it important or an option and with plants less urgent? Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > You haven't mentioned what kind of root tablet fertilizers you're using. > I'm sure you know not to use root tablets designed for terrestrial/house > plants. Then too, the various kinds/brands of aquarium root tab ferts may have > different ingredients and/or can react differently in the substrate, with > some releasing nutrients into the water column. Sometimes this release is > very dependent upon how you use the tablets -- how well you re-cover the > substrate over the tabs after you push them down between the roots. > > Some root tab fertilizers will even release part of their ammonium content > into the water column, resulting in a partial mini-cycle as bacteria will > feed on it right in mid water. This may be the cloudiness you see. As the > plants can't take up all of this suuden addition of fertilizers all at once, > you need to push the tablets down into the substrate a good distance. > Chopping them in pieces is also a good idea rather than leaving them as a whole > tablet. Aquarium-designed "Plant-Tabs" are formulated quite well, and are > safe for fish. I've never had nothing but good results wih them whenever I've > used them. > > I'm glad to hear, that you're glad to see more of me on here lately. As > it's much more difficult for me to get up on the Home Page right now to reply > or post from there, I've decided to reply right to the Yahoogroup emails > received at my email in-box. The major problem with this is that the message > I'm reply to doesn't appear under mine. The reader must first read the > Subject Line to make sure to know which thread is being replied to. I have to > make sure to address everyone by name, at the start of my messages, so that > it's unmistakeable who I'm replying to (which I try to usually do anyway). > The previous message may need to be gone back to though and read again, if it > gets difficult to follow what I'm replying to. > > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53796	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Nora, I think you answered your question yourself, when you said that whenever you disturb the gravel a big cloud forms. Naturally, this is debris and waste; much it fish waste and quite possibly some uneaten food too. It's very important to vacuum as much of this surface as you can, with deeper vacuuming where there are no plant roots. Otherwise, in time, this will not only build up, but can increase your ammonia level if there's fish food that's breaking down. Anaerobic bacteria can start forming in deeper pockets where uneaten food may have fallen to, and will only serve to putrify (rot) this waste with resulting noxious gases. You're only asking for trouble by not addressing this issue, and soomer or later the fishes' health will be affected Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53797	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Nora, I think you may well be heading for a biological tank meltdown by not vacuuming the gravel-what are your readings for nitrate, nitrite, ammonia & pH? John*<o)))<* On 15 July 2012 23:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Nora, > > I think you answered your question yourself, when you said that whenever > you disturb the gravel a big cloud forms. Naturally, this is debris and > waste; much it fish waste and quite possibly some uneaten food too. It's > very > important to vacuum as much of this surface as you can, with deeper > vacuuming > where there are no plant roots. Otherwise, in time, this will not only > build up, but can increase your ammonia level if there's fish food that's > breaking down. Anaerobic bacteria can start forming in deeper pockets > where > uneaten food may have fallen to, and will only serve to putrify (rot) this > waste with resulting noxious gases. You're only asking for trouble by not > addressing this issue, and soomer or later the fishes' health will be > affected > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53798	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/15/2012
Subject: Plant Growth

Hi Everyone, I've just posted a series of pictures showing the progress my plants have made since March. They are in the 'John's Plants' photo album & should be available to view shortly when they have been moderated. I was having serious problems with lack of plant growth & Dawn suggested I trim the roots so having nothing to loose [see the first few pictures in that folder!] I trimmed them & this is the result. I was pleased by the progress up to March but now the plants have really taken over-the straight Vallis has gotten to around 2 feet in length & looks really lovely now it trails across the surface in the flow from my 2 outlets. The other main plant is Anacharis, I bought a few small stems & potted them up-now each one is branching out & I am able to prune them so as I only leave the best light green shoots which have also grown to considerable length &also thickened up. In addition to these I also have Hornwort, originally I let it drift around the tank in the currents but it kept getting snagged up in the airlines or blocking the weir inlets so I copied something Dawn has done by anchoring it down in small ceramic rings with foam inside so it grown upwards & it looks very nice like that. It grows prolifically & I am forever pruning it as it keeps reaching the surface so I cut it back from the bottom. If you look on the right-hand-side of my tank near the bogwood arch there is some darker & more bushy Hornwort. This has all grown from a small piece in with the regular stuff-can anyone tell me what the two types of Hornwort are that I have? With the exception of the Hornwort all of my plants are in regular clay planters filled with TetraPlant growing substrate & the top inch or so is covered with variously marbles, aquatic safe pebbles or more gravel to stop the fish from digging everything up. This is the best showing of plants I have ever had in almost 8 years of looking after these fish & they really love it with so many places to hide & hang out , a variety & interest at all levels of the tank. John*<o)))< *ps-Nora, I think my tank is well planted although it is nowhere near what would be called a 'Planted Tank'.* * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53799	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank? plant supplement info?

Hi Ray and anyone, I am not sure if I completely understand it and like to try to understand it a little better. We also have snails (came with some plants) in one tank that (as far as I understood until now) break down the leftover food and transform it into something that the bacteria can digest/transform quickly. How "absolute" is the transformation of food by bacteria? If it is said that the end product is nitrate: how much additional waste remains usually? Is that the one that has to be cleaned away or is it usually non toxic? I stopped vacuum cleaning the gravel since a few months now and the water quality is very good. If the food waste/fish waste breaking down would cause a problem, would that have manifested until now? Could it be that "the cloud" comes from particles that are at least partially "leftovers" that are more or less inert to the whole process? The cloud usually settles down rather quickly and has a greenish/brownish cooler. Before I had planted live plants I vacuumed the gravel at least once a week and there was always quite something in there. But since I stopped (having the plants everywhere) the water seemed actually even clearer and the tank more stable. I wonder: does cleaning the gravel takes away lots of bacteria? My general question/problem: the whole gravel area of the tank is more or less planted and I would not know how to clean/deep clean it without unrooting most of the plants? The gravel layer is not extremely deep: approx. 2 inches (at some spots more and at others less). Is that enough for anaerobic bacteria? How deep does the oxygen exchange with the water usually works? Would I not clean away the root tablets each time? How do fish keeper with live plants in the gravel go about this problem? I put a glass container in the beginning in the tank and planted some plants in there but it takes away too much space and I cannot add more of them. Thanks for advice, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53800	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: about not gravel cleaning the tank

Hi again, what I would be curious to know if possible: If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and only the water is changed? I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? Thanks a lot, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53801	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

Hi John, yes, I wonder about the biological meltdown too. But I would love to really "know" more about. In the past fish owner thought it necessary to boil the gravel to keep it clean and to scrub everything regularly etc. and that knowledge has changed too. So I wonder how much is assumption and how much is approved knowledge? I do not want to risk our fish for a test study but since I do not know at this point how to clean the gravel around the plants (unless somebody has a good idea?) it would be helpful for me to know more about the processes in the tank. I will try to look at your plants as soon as I can: I remember they had an amazing growth last time I looked. Did you add any nutrients too? Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I think you may well be heading for a biological tank meltdown by not > vacuuming the gravel-what are your readings for nitrate, nitrite, ammonia & > pH? > > John*<o)))<* > > On 15 July 2012 23:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > I think you answered your question yourself, when you said that whenever > > you disturb the gravel a big cloud forms. Naturally, this is debris and > > waste; much it fish waste and quite possibly some uneaten food too. It's > > very > > important to vacuum as much of this surface as you can, with deeper > > vacuuming > > where there are no plant roots. Otherwise, in time, this will not only > > build up, but can increase your ammonia level if there's fish food that's > > breaking down. Anaerobic bacteria can start forming in deeper pockets > > where > > uneaten food may have fallen to, and will only serve to putrify (rot) this > > waste with resulting noxious gases. You're only asking for trouble by not > > addressing this issue, and soomer or later the fishes' health will be > > affected > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53802	From: Eloise Dryburgh	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

hi again, after checking the tank online it is 21L. I will mention to the nursery about upgrading asap, thanks you so much for all of your help :) i have done what has been advised. elly xx ps not sure if the pic went into group album it was on this email :/ x To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: simmonds.john@... Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 02:29:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ Hi Elly, Thanks for the additional info & the measurements of your tank which works out at just under 12 gallons. That really is far too small for even one Goldfish as these animals need massive dilution to remain healthy for any length of time. However-I realise that this is not your choice to have these fish & you are simply looking after them in good faith so we will do what we can with what we have. Getting the water filtered must be your number one priority if these fish are to have a chance of longevity as high levels of toxic ammonia will be quickly building up in such a small tank & that means less & less oxygen until they suffocate. The home-made box filter that Brian suggested is an excellent idea & it is simple to run from an air pump. That will at least give the fish some degree of relief from the high toxic levels but you also need to drastically increase the amount of water changes that you are doing. Change about 30% of the water every 3 days & the new water needs to be temperature matched as well as treated. I'm sorry of this is sounding like a lot of work but unfortunately you have been temporarily lumbered with animals that have been inappropriately housed & are in need of some drastic maintenence to keep them from getting sick. The nursery needs to seriously upgrade their arrangements for these fish or they will not get to live anywhere near their full life span, if possible email the owners of the tank this link: http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-basics.html Thanks for sending the picture but unfortunately I cannot see it on the email, did you post it to the forum Photo Albums? John*<o)))< * On 13 July 2012 10:38, Eloise Dryburgh <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > i forgot the picture sorry so here is it when i got them home the first > day a few weeks ago :) sorry its sideways :/ also im really wondering > about making the filter but as i mentioned to Brian im not sure if it would > fir and also sorry if this sound dumb but how do you get the air into the > tank (ive only ever used bought air pump/filters? thanksellyx > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: davis4000_2000@... > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53803	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Nora, I have a few photos in my album here in the group (Dawn Moneyhan's tanks) that represent full/heavily planted tanks. Take a look but pay attention to the size of the tanks listed as well... so you can get a feel for how many plants it has taken to do this. If I get a chance later to browse some of the other member's tanks and find more for you I will do that and post the album names for you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > in the previous discussion about the effect of plants on the water quality it was mentioned that a well planted tank is often mistaken for a full planted tank. > Does anybody have some pictures of full versus/and well planted tanks or knows where to find them? > > Thanks, Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53804	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Best way to cycle a new tank?

Thank Ray, I get it now! John*<o)))< * On 13 July 2012 18:18, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > > If you would prefer to call a heavily planted tank "cycled" at all, in any > possible state, it might be more correct to consider it partially cycled > rather than temporarily cycled. After all, the tank would be cycled only > to > the extent that the small quantity of ammonium left in the water column > (after > the plants consumed most of it) would never permit a cycle large enough > (having sufficient populations of bacteria) to oxidize the amount of > ammonia/ammonium produced by the fish in a normally stocked tank in the > plants > absence, if they were ever to be removed. > > You are assuming correctly though, no matter terminology we use for the > cycle at this stage; with removing the plants and with the subsequent > increase > in ammonia because of this, the tank would immediately start to go into a > regular cycle -- with the ammonia spiking near the 10 day period and the > nitrite spiking near the 20 day period before settling down. These time > frames > and the levels of these spikes would depend directly on the number of > plants > originally in the tank and the amount (percentage) of ammonia being > produced > by the fish, that they were consuming. > > Yes, aquatic plants preferring to eat ammonia and especially ammonium > rather than nitrate will also eat nitrite (only as a second choice) and > prefer it > over nitrate as it's easier for them to convert nitrite to ammonium than > it > would be to convert nitrate to ammonium. Some of those aquatic plants > having a preference for nitrate will consume nitrite, but not as their > first > choice. There still are those plants that prefer nitrate rather than > ammonia, > which prefer only nitrate -- and use very little (if ANY) nitrite. In a > working cycle, there is usually some nitrate present -- and in a quantity > much > larger than that of nitrite -- unless the hobbyist does very large PWC's. > > Ray. > > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53805	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank

Hi Nora, I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable really so I would recommend vacuuming. John*<o)))< * On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > what I would be curious to know if possible: > > If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": > are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and > only the water is changed? > > I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is > there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? > > How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53806	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

The only nutrients my plants get is in the TetraPlant substrate that they grow in. my photos have been approved & are now online. John*<o)))< * On 16 July 2012 15:05, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > yes, I wonder about the biological meltdown too. But I would love to > really "know" more about. > In the past fish owner thought it necessary to boil the gravel to keep it > clean and to scrub everything regularly etc. and that knowledge has changed > too. So I wonder how much is assumption and how much is approved knowledge? > > I do not want to risk our fish for a test study but since I do not know at > this point how to clean the gravel around the plants (unless somebody has a > good idea?) it would be helpful for me to know more about the processes in > the tank. > > I will try to look at your plants as soon as I can: I remember they had an > amazing growth last time I looked. Did you add any nutrients too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53807	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

Thank Elly-that's all you can do really, it is then up to them how they proceed but tell them they are most welcome to join our forum too in case they feel out of their depth with the new information. Goldfish really are quite difficult fish to keep properly. I have not been able to view your photo, could you post it in the photo albums please? John*<o)))< * On 16 July 2012 18:18, Eloise Dryburgh <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > ** > > > > hi again, > > after checking the tank online it is 21L. I will mention to the nursery > about upgrading asap, thanks you so much for all of your help :) i have > done what has been advised. > > elly > xx > > ps not sure if the pic went into group album it was on this email :/ x > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53808	From: harry perry	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank

I disagree. Two of my tanks have been running for years. They are well planted and I don't have any problems. I never vacuum my gravel. My thirty gallon had been running for months without a filter. I never use air stones. Folks with natural planted tanks keep their system running for years with out the need to vacuum the gravel. Would you have a reference website we could go to for the results of scientific studies backing up the information you are giving to the group. Also, the cycle already starts out in the open. In the filter,the water column and the gravel and where ever else the Nitrobacter bacteria resides. Folks here are starting new tanks. Spending their hard earned money on something they enjoy. They need information backed up by scientific fact. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank   Hi Nora, I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable really so I would recommend vacuuming. John*<o)))< * On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > what I would be curious to know if possible: > > If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": > are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and > only the water is changed? > > I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is > there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? > > How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53809	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

No. Don't boil and scrub the gravel. The gravel contains important waste processing bacteria! I DO remove the plastic decorations and rocks and soak them in bleach. Dora On 7/16/2012 9:05 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi John, > > yes, I wonder about the biological meltdown too. But I would love to > really "know" more about. > In the past fish owner thought it necessary to boil the gravel to keep > it clean and to scrub everything regularly etc. and that knowledge has > changed too. So I wonder how much is assumption and how much is > approved knowledge? > > I do not want to risk our fish for a test study but since I do not > know at this point how to clean the gravel around the plants (unless > somebody has a good idea?) it would be helpful for me to know more > about the processes in the tank. > > I will try to look at your plants as soon as I can: I remember they > had an amazing growth last time I looked. Did you add any nutrients too? > > Thanks, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, SIMMONDS JOHN > <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > I think you may well be heading for a biological tank meltdown by not > > vacuuming the gravel-what are your readings for nitrate, nitrite, > ammonia & > > pH? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > On 15 July 2012 23:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > I think you answered your question yourself, when you said that > whenever > > > you disturb the gravel a big cloud forms. Naturally, this is > debris and > > > waste; much it fish waste and quite possibly some uneaten food > too. It's > > > very > > > important to vacuum as much of this surface as you can, with deeper > > > vacuuming > > > where there are no plant roots. Otherwise, in time, this will not only > > > build up, but can increase your ammonia level if there's fish food > that's > > > breaking down. Anaerobic bacteria can start forming in deeper pockets > > > where > > > uneaten food may have fallen to, and will only serve to putrify > (rot) this > > > waste with resulting noxious gases. You're only asking for trouble > by not > > > addressing this issue, and soomer or later the fishes' health will be > > > affected > > > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53810	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Hi Dawn, thanks a lot! Wow, the plants look beautiful and thriving! I love how green they are... Some of my plants have a more yellowish/brownish color now except for the new leaves. Wisteria is green and thriving but the Cambomba and one other is growing but does not have the fresh green color it had in the beginning. I wonder if it misses nutrients, if the ph is too high or if there is not enough light? Or maybe some extra algae growth on them discolors them...? I am looking forward to more pictures if you find the time. But the ones I saw already gave a good impression! Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Nora, > I have a few photos in my album here in the group (Dawn Moneyhan's tanks) that represent full/heavily planted tanks. Take a look but pay attention to the size of the tanks listed as well... so you can get a feel for how many plants it has taken to do this. If I get a chance later to browse some of the other member's tanks and find more for you I will do that and post the album names for you. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > in the previous discussion about the effect of plants on the water quality it was mentioned that a well planted tank is often mistaken for a full planted tank. > > Does anybody have some pictures of full versus/and well planted tanks or knows where to find them? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53811	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: Plant Growth

Hi John, I just looked at your photos: the Vallisneria is amazing! Do you know what your water pH is? The plants look so healthy, I wonder why some of mine are looking less green. Maybe your goldfish produce the best fertilizer :) The 4 fish are beautiful too, how big are they approx.? I know your tank is big so it is hard to estimate for me from the tank pictures alone. Are they already 8 years old (I think you mentioned that is how long you have the aquarium?) Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I've just posted a series of pictures showing the progress my plants have > made since March. They are in the 'John's Plants' photo album & should be > available to view shortly when they have been moderated. I was having > serious problems with lack of plant growth & Dawn suggested I trim the > roots so having nothing to loose [see the first few pictures in that > folder!] I trimmed them & this is the result. I was pleased by the progress > up to March but now the plants have really taken over-the straight Vallis > has gotten to around 2 feet in length & looks really lovely now it trails > across the surface in the flow from my 2 outlets. The other main plant is > Anacharis, I bought a few small stems & potted them up-now each one is > branching out & I am able to prune them so as I only leave the best light > green shoots which have also grown to considerable length &also thickened > up. > > In addition to these I also have Hornwort, originally I let it drift around > the tank in the currents but it kept getting snagged up in the airlines or > blocking the weir inlets so I copied something Dawn has done by anchoring > it down in small ceramic rings with foam inside so it grown upwards & it > looks very nice like that. It grows prolifically & I am forever pruning it > as it keeps reaching the surface so I cut it back from the bottom. If you > look on the right-hand-side of my tank near the bogwood arch there is some > darker & more bushy Hornwort. This has all grown from a small piece in with > the regular stuff-can anyone tell me what the two types of Hornwort are > that I have? > > With the exception of the Hornwort all of my plants are in regular clay > planters filled with TetraPlant growing substrate & the top inch or so is > covered with variously marbles, aquatic safe pebbles or more gravel to stop > the fish from digging everything up. This is the best showing of plants I > have ever had in almost 8 years of looking after these fish & they really > love it with so many places to hide & hang out , a variety & interest at > all levels of the tank. > > John*<o)))< > > *ps-Nora, I think my tank is well planted although it is nowhere near what > would be called a 'Planted Tank'.* > > * > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53812	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank

Hi again, thanks for your answer! I am sorry I keep digging for more info but I have to ask: why would it be a problem if the cycle is more confined to the aquarium than the filter? If e.g. the plants are taking over a large part of toxin removal it seems to be a similar situation (the bio filter being less important)? I checked the water values today and Ammonia/nitrite are 0 (as good as I can tell with the color table of the liquid set) and nitrate is less than 10. The pH is at least 8 (or 8.1,8.2? also difficult to tell with the color table). Does anyone know if the pH would go up or down by time if problems arise? Right now I do approx. 30-35% water change every 5-7 days and it seems to keep things stable with apparently (hopefully) happy fish... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes > if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill > everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could > cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out > in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable > really so I would recommend vacuuming. > > John*<o)))< > * > On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > what I would be curious to know if possible: > > > > If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": > > are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and > > only the water is changed? > > > > I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is > > there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? > > > > How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? > > > > Thanks a lot, > > Nora > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53813	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank

Ah, thanks for that info! I was hoping somebody else maybe had tried already to leave the gravel alone... So it seems possible without heading into a sure disaster? Were your plants always thriving and do you think that kept the tank stable? I wonder if one has to be lucky or if it can be done "normally". Are there more people out there who tried and can they give some feedback on their experience? Thanks a lot, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I disagree. Two of my tanks have been running for years. They are well planted and I don't have any problems. I never vacuum my gravel. My thirty gallon had been running for months without a filter. I never use air stones. Folks with natural planted tanks keep their system running for years with out the need to vacuum the gravel. > > > Would you have a reference website we could go to for the results of scientific studies backing up the information you are giving to the group. > > Also, the cycle already starts out in the open. In the filter,the water column and the gravel and where ever else the Nitrobacter bacteria resides. > > Folks here are starting new tanks. Spending their hard earned money on something they enjoy. They need information backed up by scientific fact. > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > > Harry > > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank > > >   > Hi Nora, > > I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes > if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill > everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could > cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out > in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable > really so I would recommend vacuuming. > > John*<o)))< > * > On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > what I would be curious to know if possible: > > > > If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": > > are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and > > only the water is changed? > > > > I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is > > there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? > > > > How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? > > > > Thanks a lot, > > Nora > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53814	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/16/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

Hi Dora, oh no do not worry! I just meant it as an example for how much the understanding about proper procedures has changed already. I do the opposite right now and just wonder if that is too extreme too. Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > No. Don't boil and scrub the gravel. The gravel contains important > waste processing bacteria! > > I DO remove the plastic decorations and rocks and soak them in bleach. > > Dora > > > On 7/16/2012 9:05 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > yes, I wonder about the biological meltdown too. But I would love to > > really "know" more about. > > In the past fish owner thought it necessary to boil the gravel to keep > > it clean and to scrub everything regularly etc. and that knowledge has > > changed too. So I wonder how much is assumption and how much is > > approved knowledge? > > > > I do not want to risk our fish for a test study but since I do not > > know at this point how to clean the gravel around the plants (unless > > somebody has a good idea?) it would be helpful for me to know more > > about the processes in the tank. > > > > I will try to look at your plants as soon as I can: I remember they > > had an amazing growth last time I looked. Did you add any nutrients too? > > > > Thanks, > > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, SIMMONDS JOHN > > <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > I think you may well be heading for a biological tank meltdown by not > > > vacuuming the gravel-what are your readings for nitrate, nitrite, > > ammonia & > > > pH? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 15 July 2012 23:47, <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Nora, > > > > > > > > I think you answered your question yourself, when you said that > > whenever > > > > you disturb the gravel a big cloud forms. Naturally, this is > > debris and > > > > waste; much it fish waste and quite possibly some uneaten food > > too. It's > > > > very > > > > important to vacuum as much of this surface as you can, with deeper > > > > vacuuming > > > > where there are no plant roots. Otherwise, in time, this will not only > > > > build up, but can increase your ammonia level if there's fish food > > that's > > > > breaking down. Anaerobic bacteria can start forming in deeper pockets > > > > where > > > > uneaten food may have fallen to, and will only serve to putrify > > (rot) this > > > > waste with resulting noxious gases. You're only asking for trouble > > by not > > > > addressing this issue, and soomer or later the fishes' health will be > > > > affected > > > > > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53815	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan

I'm guilty of never cleaning my gravel, I really dnt change the water too often either. Maybe a few gallons here n there, normally I let my water level drop to a point n add fresh to it. N my tank thrives, my fish breed, and the fry are doing great. Actually have 2 females getting ready to give birth again. Not saying anything scientifically here, just saying iv never done any of it n iv never had any issues. Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: >I disagree. Two of my tanks have been running for years. They are well planted and I don't have any problems. I never vacuum my gravel. My thirty gallon had been running for months without a filter. I never use air stones. Folks with natural planted tanks keep their system running for years with out the need to vacuum the gravel. > > >Would you have a reference website we could go to for the results of scientific studies backing up the information you are giving to the group. > >Also, the cycle already starts out in the open. In the filter,the water column and the gravel and where ever else the Nitrobacter bacteria resides. > >Folks here are starting new tanks. Spending their hard earned money on something they enjoy. They need information backed up by scientific fact. > >http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > > > >Harry > > >________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:37 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank > > >  >Hi Nora, > >I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes >if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill >everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could >cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out >in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable >really so I would recommend vacuuming. > >John*<o)))< >* >On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> what I would be curious to know if possible: >> >> If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": >> are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and >> only the water is changed? >> >> I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is >> there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? >> >> How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? >> >> Thanks a lot, >> Nora >> >> >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53816	From: bill 1433	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan

--- On Mon, 7/16/12, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> Subject: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012, 7:41 PM I disagree. Two of my tanks have been running for years. They are well planted and I don't have any problems. I never vacuum my gravel. My thirty gallon had been running for months without a filter. I never use air stones. Folks with natural planted tanks keep their system running for years with out the need to vacuum the gravel. Would you have a reference website we could go to for the results of scientific studies backing up the information you are giving to the group. Also, the cycle already starts out in the open. In the filter,the water column and the gravel and where ever else the Nitrobacter bacteria resides. Folks here are starting new tanks. Spending their hard earned money on something they enjoy. They need information backed up by scientific fact. http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tank   Hi Nora, I think depending on many factors there are several *possible* outcomes if you never vacuum your gravel. One is the eco system will collapse & kill everything in the tank & the other is that the mulch on the bottom could cause 'passive filtration' to take place ie the cycle will start right out in the open rather than in the confines of the filter. Neither is desirable really so I would recommend vacuuming. John*<o)))< * On 16 July 2012 14:55, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > what I would be curious to know if possible: > > If the gravel is not "vacuum cleaned": > are there any studies about what happens if the gravel is left alone and > only the water is changed? > > I understand the recommendation is to do it for various reason. But is > there any certainty about what happens if it is not done? > > How long does it usually take for fish food to decompose? > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53817	From: Kiersten M	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: tank devider?

Iv read on nets and boxes and seperate tanks n just letting mom have babies in the community tank. Iv tried a seperate tank, all my babies died one by one. I am wondering if I can make a net tank divider or if they do have one somewhere I haven't found yet? Im trying to keep as many as i can and the best luck i have had is just letting them have babies in the regular tank with lots of cover in the corners n walls of the tank. So i was wanting to avoid the hanging nets if I could. My female is a total spaz n would not agree at all with one. But I'm worried if I just get a solid plastic tank divider my water wont circulate in that area.that's if they even make one for a 29 gal. I'm going for a particular color since iv intentionally bred certain fish *I hope its not stored from another male. Thanks for any help. Kiersten

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53818	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other life forms. The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained below. Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely dry. These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce within 15-60 minutes—compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying bacteria—you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to non-planted tanks as well. In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want to see the sources will find the article here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ Byron.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53819	From: haliebackflips	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: batfish???

Ok way out of the blue, i live in texas what is the best way to catch a batfish on a fishing line?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53820	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: responsibilities.

As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy."

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53821	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: Harry.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the ta

Harry, As you may (or may not?) have noticed, John has been replying to Nora, who is much of a beginner in the hobby. I notice that she is even asking many question to gain as much knowledge as she can here, and so, deserves all the help she can get. While your methods may work for you, and may also work for me, I surely won't recommend not vacuuming the gravel to a beginning hobbyist such as Nora. I'm sure you're quite aware that one of the beginning hobbyists' worst problems when they first start, is to overfeed their fish. While we hope Nora doesn't fall into that classification, until she learns better over time on how to feed her fish properly, there's a good chance that she may overfeed, at least on occasion. With a pH of at least 8.0 or higher (she thinks it may be as high as 8.2) it wouldn't take any more than a 0.25 ppm level of Total Ammonia for it to be toxic to her fish at this pH (and an even much lower level at pH 8.2). I see it as being too risky for a beginner not to vacuum the gravel to ensure any leftover food is cleaned up and doesn't sicken her fish. I would not recommend foregoing this important maintenance procedure for a beginner. They're spending hard earned money on fish that they're putting to risk, when they are still learning how to properly feed their fish, if they were to ignore a basic beginner tank maintenance procedure. Yes, the cycle "starts" right out in the open, in the water column -- and on all.surfaces including the gravel, the interior glass panes and the filter. It very soon migrates to the filter as its populations increase there due to conditions being more favorable to their multiplication at that location, even though nitrifying bacteria will always reside in the water and on other surfaces. For nitrifying bacteria to once more multiply in mid-water after a cycle has been established (in the filter), this is generally seen when a mini-cycle is taking place, and the conditions causing this should be avoided whenever possible. Fortunately, it looks like this is a greenish/brownish cloud which would appear to be a type (or types) of suspended algae -- even though this too should be corrected. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53822	From: harry perry	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: John an Nora

I think perhaps I sent the wrong message with my post on vacuuming. My experience is with heavily planted tanks. I can't constantly disturb the gravel. To me there is a difference between cleaning the top and constantly digging up the grave. The top of the gravel can be, should be cleaned during weekly water changes. Hopefully this would eliminate the need to dig up the gravel. A large part of the helpful bacteria resides there as well as the filter. I hope I didn't confuse any one. It is very important to establish good maintenance habits in the beginning. It will save a lot of grief later on. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53823	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Nora, The problem with your Cabomba is quite possibly a lack of light, although not a problem of light intensity.. While this plant is sold in bunches, it should never be planted this way. Instead, the wrapper that holds the strands together in a tight bunch should be removed, and each strand should be planted individually. While it should still be loosely planted as a "bunch," the individual strands should be planted at least 1/4" or more apart from each other to allow the light to reach the strands that would otherwise be cut off from light -- if they were planted all together as one tight bunch. The bottoms of the inner strands would never receive light. The plant needs water circulation between the strands also. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53824	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

Nora, If you can't deep vacuum the gravel because of no areas being root-free, just surface clean the gravel to remove any debris before it settles down into the substrate. Just that procedure will go a long way in keeping your water parameters within tolerance. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53825	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: Plant Growth

Thanks Nora, I try to do my best for my fish! My pH is around 7.8 but sometimes goes to 8. I put the plant growth firmly down to Dawn's suggestion to trim the roots about 6 months ago plus the large amount of TetraPlant substrate in the planters. The beauty of having plants like this is they provide interest & diversity at all levels in the tank-the fish love to swim through them as well as around them. My lighting is on for 7.5 hours daily although the tank is in a naturally lit room & the top is clear so plenty of light is going in there constantly. The tank is 8 feet long & 20 inches in square section. The 2 large Comets, Apricot [silver] & Marmalade [orange] are just over 8 inches long, the small silver Comet-Buttercup is about 7 inches long & Tiny the Common Goldfish is about 8 inches long. Despite appearances Tiny is the largest in body mass & she is tiny in name only! I measure them every few months & they are constantly growing at the rate of around an inch per year plus getting really thick-set in the body. I can only estimate their ages but I'm basing it on them being around 6 months old when I got them which is probably about right as I believe they are this age when they are sold in stores. Apricot & Marmalade were won at a local fair-Apricot in 2003 & Marmalade in 2004. Tiny was purchased from a local pet store in 2004. The 3 of them were in a 1.5 gallon hex until the beginning of 2005 when they were given to me. I put them firstly in a 15 gallon tank, then a 32 gallon & they have been in the 100 gallon since June 2009. I got Buttercup in 2005 & also his dear brother Blacktail who died prematurely last December. He was a great fish & I miss him proudly parading around so much, I think the cause was a combination of internal tumors & a bacterial infection. * *John*<o)))<* On 17 July 2012 06:41, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > I just looked at your photos: the Vallisneria is amazing! Do you know what > your water pH is? The plants look so healthy, I wonder why some of mine are > looking less green. Maybe your goldfish produce the best fertilizer :) > The 4 fish are beautiful too, how big are they approx.? I know your tank > is big so it is hard to estimate for me from the tank pictures alone. Are > they already 8 years old (I think you mentioned that is how long you have > the aquarium?) > > Thanks, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53826	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: about not gravel cleaning the tank

In the few years I have been involved with fish keeping & my limited experience I have realised there is very often more than one way to do things & something else that I think is very important is when you come across a system that works despite it going against everything in the proverbial rule book then I leave well alone & don't try to change anything, if it ain't broke-don't fix it. From your test results & maintenence regime it certainly appears that you have very good water quality. I don't know enough about water chemistry to answer your query about the pH fluctuating although I can tell you that a stable pH is the thing to aim for rather than a 'textbook' value. BTW, I know exactly what you mean about the test results being difficult to pin down. I think basically when it comes evaluating to the nitrate results [at least with API] red is not good, orange is so-so & yellow is good. What is your test measurements for tap water? John*<o)))<* On 17 July 2012 06:52, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > thanks for your answer! I am sorry I keep digging for more info but I have > to ask: why would it be a problem if the cycle is more confined to the > aquarium than the filter? If e.g. the plants are taking over a large part > of toxin removal it seems to be a similar situation (the bio filter being > less important)? > I checked the water values today and Ammonia/nitrite are 0 (as good as I > can tell with the color table of the liquid set) and nitrate is less than > 10. The pH is at least 8 (or 8.1,8.2? also difficult to tell with the color > table). > Does anyone know if the pH would go up or down by time if problems arise? > Right now I do approx. 30-35% water change every 5-7 days and it seems to > keep things stable with apparently (hopefully) happy fish... > > Thanks, Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53827	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: skipping gravel cleaning?

Hi Ray, I will keep that in mind and try to do that better. Thanks for all the advice! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Nora, > > If you can't deep vacuum the gravel because of no areas being root-free, > just surface clean the gravel to remove any debris before it settles down into > the substrate. Just that procedure will go a long way in keeping your > water parameters within tolerance. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53828	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/17/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Hi Ray, yes I planted the strands at different positions in the aquarium. But you are probably right about the lack of light. Leaves of other plants block partially the light to the Cabomba and some strands became so long that they loop through the aquarium and mix into areas with less light. Also the sheer plastic cover between lamps and water frequently becomes less transparent and I think now I should remove and clean it thoroughly... Thanks, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Nora, > > The problem with your Cabomba is quite possibly a lack of light, although > not a problem of light intensity.. While this plant is sold in bunches, it > should never be planted this way. Instead, the wrapper that holds the > strands together in a tight bunch should be removed, and each strand should be > planted individually. > > While it should still be loosely planted as a "bunch," the individual > strands should be planted at least 1/4" or more apart from each other to allow > the light to reach the strands that would otherwise be cut off from light -- > if they were planted all together as one tight bunch. The bottoms of the > inner strands would never receive light. The plant needs water circulation > between the strands also. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53829	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: John.........Re: [AquaticLife] about not gravel cleaning the tan

Hi Harry, I posted that reply to Nora without giving it the thought that I should have done [see my recent reply to her]. If it is working well for you & your fish then there is no point in altering it. Also, I can only comment with any practical experience on tanks that are planted rather than 'fully planted' tanks so apologies for that. John*<o)))<* On 17 July 2012 00:41, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > I disagree. Two of my tanks have been running for years. They are well > planted and I don't have any problems. I never vacuum my gravel. My thirty > gallon had been running for months without a filter. I never use air > stones. Folks with natural planted tanks keep their system running for > years with out the need to vacuum the gravel. > > Would you have a reference website we could go to for the results of > scientific studies backing up the information you are giving to the group. > > Also, the cycle already starts out in the open. In the filter,the water > column and the gravel and where ever else the Nitrobacter bacteria resides. > > Folks here are starting new tanks. Spending their hard earned money on > something they enjoy. They need information backed up by scientific fact. > > http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html > > Harry > > _ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53830	From: mumof2_86	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

i have added the picture to the aquarium album sorry if this was someone elses aablum i wasnt sure if it was just a generic album. x --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Eloise Dryburgh <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > > hi again, > > after checking the tank online it is 21L. I will mention to the nursery about upgrading asap, thanks you so much for all of your help :) i have done what has been advised. > > elly > xx > > ps not sure if the pic went into group album it was on this email :/ x > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: simmonds.john@... > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 02:29:32 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Elly, > > > > Thanks for the additional info & the measurements of your tank which > > works out at just under 12 gallons. That really is far too small for even > > one Goldfish as these animals need massive dilution to remain healthy for > > any length of time. However-I realise that this is not your choice to have > > these fish & you are simply looking after them in good faith so we will do > > what we can with what we have. Getting the water filtered must be your > > number one priority if these fish are to have a chance of longevity as high > > levels of toxic ammonia will be quickly building up in such a small tank & > > that means less & less oxygen until they suffocate. > > > > The home-made box filter that Brian suggested is an excellent idea & it is > > simple to run from an air pump. That will at least give the fish some > > degree of relief from the high toxic levels but you also need to > > drastically increase the amount of water changes that you are doing. Change > > about 30% of the water every 3 days & the new water needs to be temperature > > matched as well as treated. > > > > I'm sorry of this is sounding like a lot of work but unfortunately you have > > been temporarily lumbered with animals that have been inappropriately > > housed & are in need of some drastic maintenence to keep them from getting > > sick. The nursery needs to seriously upgrade their arrangements for these > > fish or they will not get to live anywhere near their full life span, if > > possible email the owners of the tank this link: > > http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-basics.html > > > > Thanks for sending the picture but unfortunately I cannot see it on the > > email, did you post it to the forum Photo Albums? > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 13 July 2012 10:38, Eloise Dryburgh <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > i forgot the picture sorry so here is it when i got them home the first > > > day a few weeks ago :) sorry its sideways :/ also im really wondering > > > about making the filter but as i mentioned to Brian im not sure if it would > > > fir and also sorry if this sound dumb but how do you get the air into the > > > tank (ive only ever used bought air pump/filters? thanksellyx > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > From: davis4000_2000@... > > > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:48:06 -0700 > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53831	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: undergravel filters

I know I'm in the minority here, but I still believe the best filtration and means of eliminating the deadly gas pockets is the undergravel filter. Yes it seems old fashioned but I have great success with them along with regular, once weekly 50% water changes. My tanks have gone healthily for years at a time this way, and I avoid the annoying gravel vaccuming. Does anyone else here use undergravel filters? What has your experience been? Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53832	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

Thanks Byron, Very interesting reading, can you explain what you mean by cyanobacteria 'fixing' the atmospheric nitrogen please? John*<o)))< * On 17 July 2012 15:29, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > ** > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or > not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to > the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting > ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle > is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this > stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into > nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component > of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria > involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other > life forms. > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are > several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within > nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the > water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we > term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no > oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since > de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will > naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained > below. > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like > fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, > etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to > live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in > biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter > media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain > potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely > dry. > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. > They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; > studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more > than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce > within 15-60 minutes�compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying > bacteria�you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm > the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic > bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the > autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs > in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects > in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in > planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to > non-planted tanks as well. > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 > inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place > approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen > sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it > will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in > finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the > presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and > worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in > the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the > substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than > sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, > having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian > Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy > biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in > freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want > to see the sources will find the article here: > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > Byron. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53833	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

Hi Al, I agree with you completely, whatever beings we choose to look after I think we have a moral obligation to find out as much as we can about them so we can make their lives as happy as possible. John*<o)))< * On 17 July 2012 20:20, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old > cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I > have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What > more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53834	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters

Not since 1960, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rose Bustamante Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] undergravel filters I know I'm in the minority here, but I still believe the best filtration and means of eliminating the deadly gas pockets is the undergravel filter. Yes it seems old fashioned but I have great success with them along with regular, once weekly 50% water changes. My tanks have gone healthily for years at a time this way, and I avoid the annoying gravel vaccuming. Does anyone else here use undergravel filters? What has your experience been? Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53835	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters

My experience with UGF has been bad. I know it works and have had succes with it but will not voluntarily use one again. If I did use one again I would probably mount a single or more power head to the uplift tubes. Mike -----Original Message----- From: bustamante.rose@... To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:17 am Subject: [AquaticLife] undergravel filters I know I'm in the minority here, but I still believe the best filtration and means of eliminating the deadly gas pockets is the undergravel filter. Yes it seems old fashioned but I have great success with them along with regular, once weekly 50% water changes. My tanks have gone healthily for years at a time this way, and I avoid the annoying gravel vaccuming. Does anyone else here use undergravel filters? What has your experience been? 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53836	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: WANTED - Air Filter for gold fish tank :/

Hi Elly, Did your photo upload ok? I've looked in that album & all I can find is 2 pictures added in 2006. John*<o)))< * On 18 July 2012 11:50, mumof2_86 <ellydryburgh@...> wrote: > ** > > > i have added the picture to the aquarium album sorry if this was someone > elses aablum i wasnt sure if it was just a generic album. > x > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53837	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/18/2012
Subject: Re: undergravel filters

I have an under graveled filter and a regular filter. I just wiggle the gravel around once a week in different areas with my fish net. Maybe that's why iv never had any issues? Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone Deenerz@... wrote: >My experience with UGF has been bad. I know it works and have had succes with it but will not voluntarily use one again. If I did use one again I would probably mount a single or more power head to the uplift tubes. > >Mike > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: bustamante.rose@... >To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:17 am >Subject: [AquaticLife] undergravel filters > > > > I know I'm in the minority here, but I still believe the best filtration and means of eliminating the deadly gas pockets is the undergravel filter. Yes it seems old fashioned but I have great success with them along with regular, once weekly 50% water changes. My tanks have gone healthily for years at a time this way, and I avoid the annoying gravel vaccuming. Does anyone else here use undergravel filters? What has your experience been? 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} > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53838	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

Hi Byron, thank you so much for the detailed info about the bacterial processes! It was great to read a compressed version with so much info in it! Just to make sure I understood it right: Coarse gravel layers thinner than 4 inches most likely promote the existence of beneficial bacteria (different types) and avoid the production of harmful hydrogen sulfide because they still enable enough oxygen throughput? There was only one point that was not clear too me: it was mentioned that the anaerobic bacteria multiply much faster than the nitrifying bacteria and might take over certain areas (like the filter) if not maintained properly... It seemed if the filter is not cleaned they might overwhelm the nitrifying bacteria while on the other hand in the gravel this does not happen? How is the balance maintained in the gravel and not in the filter? Maybe it is obvious and I just do not see it but I must admit I do not fully understand the interaction between the two bacteria types. Even through I am relieved that it seems the gravel balances it out somehow... :) Thanks again, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other life forms. > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained below. > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely dry. > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce within 15-60 minutes—compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying bacteria—you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to non-planted tanks as well. > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want to see the sources will find the article here: > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > Byron. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53839	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

Hi Al, just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53840	From: Dora Smith	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

Hmmm, I'm familiar with anaerobes at the bottom of your gravel making hydrogen sulfide gas which suddenly erupts and kills everything in the tank. I have wondered how in the world you clean a planted tank, as presumably it has dirt in the bottom of the tank instead of gravel, and if you vacuumed it you'd vacuum up the dirt. Dora On 7/19/2012 2:43 AM, nonstopmom888 wrote: > > Hi Byron, > > thank you so much for the detailed info about the bacterial processes! > It was great to read a compressed version with so much info in it! > > Just to make sure I understood it right: > Coarse gravel layers thinner than 4 inches most likely promote the > existence of beneficial bacteria (different types) and avoid the > production of harmful hydrogen sulfide because they still enable > enough oxygen throughput? > There was only one point that was not clear too me: it was mentioned > that the anaerobic bacteria multiply much faster than the nitrifying > bacteria and might take over certain areas (like the filter) if not > maintained properly... It seemed if the filter is not cleaned they > might overwhelm the nitrifying bacteria while on the other hand in the > gravel this does not happen? How is the balance maintained in the > gravel and not in the filter? Maybe it is obvious and I just do not > see it but I must admit I do not fully understand the interaction > between the two bacteria types. Even through I am relieved that it > seems the gravel balances it out somehow... :) > > Thanks again, > Nora > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> > wrote: > > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of > cleaning or not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will > try to respond to the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting > ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen > cycle is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; > in this stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert > nitrate into nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. > Another component of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not > present in our aquaria involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen > by cyanobacteria and other life forms. > > > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there > are several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen > within nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free > oxygen in the water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally > occur in what we term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is > stopped and thus no oxygen is available. These are the good guys among > heterotrophs, since de-nitrification is important in a healthy > aquarium. And they will naturally occur in the lower level of the > substrate as will be explained below. > > > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic > matter like fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, > dead bacteria, etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative > anaerobes, able to live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, > they colonize surfaces [in biofilms], and these are most prevalent in > the substrate and the filter media. Many species can survive complete > drying, allowing them to remain potent even when filter media that has > been previously used is completely dry. > > > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: > organics. They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and > surface area; studies show that even in relatively clean environments, > they occupy more than 50% of the available surface area. And given > that they can reproduce within 15-60 minutes---compare this to the > 12-32 hours required by nitrifying bacteria---you can see how easily > these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm the system. In a filter, if > sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic bacteria will multiply so > fast they actually smother and kill the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium > occurs in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost > that collects in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is > why the substrate in planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many > aquarists apply this to non-planted tanks as well. > > > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top > 1-2 inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place > approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing > hydrogen sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all > three cases, it will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) > and more shallow in finer substrates such as sand. These generalities > will also vary with the presence of live plant roots and substrate > "diggers" such as snails and worms, since these factors result in more > oxygen being made available in the substrate, reducing anaerobic > bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the substrate of as little as 1 > ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than sulfur reduction (hydrogen > sulfide). [6] > > > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 > inches, having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping > Malaysian Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of > providing a healthy biological system for aerobic and denitrifying > anaerobic bacteria. > > > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in > freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who > want to see the sources will find the article here: > > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > > > Byron. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53841	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

I'll try, as much as I understand it (not being a biologist) from my research. Cyanobacteria includes many species, including some that occur in different cell types. One of these, called heterocysts, are specially designed to "fix" nitrogen gas into ammonia, nitrite or nitrates which can then be taken up by plants (aquatic and terrestrial) and converted to proteins nucleic acids; plants cannot biologically take up atmospheric nitrogen. Cyanobacteria is found in just about all habitats, aquatic and terrestrial. Scientists believe it alone was responsible for converting the original reducing atmosphere of the planet into an oxidating one that led to the formation of algae and life forms beyond that. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Thanks Byron, > > Very interesting reading, can you explain what you mean by cyanobacteria > 'fixing' the atmospheric nitrogen please? > > John*<o)))< > * > On 17 July 2012 15:29, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or > > not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to > > the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting > > ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle > > is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this > > stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into > > nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component > > of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria > > involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other > > life forms. > > > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are > > several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within > > nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the > > water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we > > term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no > > oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since > > de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will > > naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained > > below. > > > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like > > fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, > > etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to > > live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in > > biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter > > media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain > > potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely > > dry. > > > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. > > They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; > > studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more > > than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce > > within 15-60 minutes—compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying > > bacteria—you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm > > the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic > > bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the > > autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs > > in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects > > in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in > > planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to > > non-planted tanks as well. > > > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 > > inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place > > approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen > > sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it > > will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in > > finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the > > presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and > > worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in > > the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the > > substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than > > sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, > > having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian > > Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy > > biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in > > freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want > > to see the sources will find the article here: > > > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53842	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

To your question on the gravel depth, yes. Of course, "dead spots" can occur in any depth if oxygen/water flow is basically stopped by something. On the second question, as I understand it from my research, the substrate is usually going to be "cleaner" than the dirty neglected filter, always assuming a biological balance exists in the aquarium. The biological processes occurring in the substrate are multi, unlike in the confined filter. And remember, we are talking a planted tank here. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Byron, > > thank you so much for the detailed info about the bacterial processes! > It was great to read a compressed version with so much info in it! > > Just to make sure I understood it right: > Coarse gravel layers thinner than 4 inches most likely promote the existence of beneficial bacteria (different types) and avoid the production of harmful hydrogen sulfide because they still enable enough oxygen throughput? > There was only one point that was not clear too me: it was mentioned that the anaerobic bacteria multiply much faster than the nitrifying bacteria and might take over certain areas (like the filter) if not maintained properly... It seemed if the filter is not cleaned they might overwhelm the nitrifying bacteria while on the other hand in the gravel this does not happen? How is the balance maintained in the gravel and not in the filter? Maybe it is obvious and I just do not see it but I must admit I do not fully understand the interaction between the two bacteria types. Even through I am relieved that it seems the gravel balances it out somehow... :) > > Thanks again, > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@> wrote: > > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other life forms. > > > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained below. > > > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely dry. > > > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce within 15-60 minutes—compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying bacteria—you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to non-planted tanks as well. > > > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want to see the sources will find the article here: > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > > > Byron. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53843	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53844	From: m davis	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry  about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53845	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

could be... but she said first she had a betta, some platys, and 2 schools of tetras in there.... then another post said dont worry there are less than 50 in each school...now to my understanding, a betta, some platys and even... one ...small... school of tetras would be pushing it... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > >  that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > > ________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > > My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry  about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53846	From: m davis	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities and fish death camps

1 gallon per inch of fish; even if those fish are an inch long, each, she'd need a 100 gallon tank. I over filter mine and have plants in it, but i doan wanna create a fish ghetto, or should I say death camp.   ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. could be... but she said first she had a betta, some platys, and 2 schools of tetras in there.... then another post said dont worry there are less than 50 in each school...now to my understanding, a betta, some platys and even... one ...small... school of tetras would be pushing it... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > >  that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > > ________________________________ >  From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. >  > My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry  about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53847	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

100 fish!!!! how long did they last!?! ------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43 AM PDT m davis wrote: > > > that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > >________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > >My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. >But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry  about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Al, >> >> just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: >> >> my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. >> That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: >> cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. >> For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. >> >> Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! >> Nora >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: >> > >> > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." >> > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53848	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

Thanks Byron, If I understand it right then heterocysts are agents that assist the plants? John. On 19 July 2012 16:25, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > ** > > > I'll try, as much as I understand it (not being a biologist) from my > research. Cyanobacteria includes many species, including some that occur in > different cell types. One of these, called heterocysts, are specially > designed to "fix" nitrogen gas into ammonia, nitrite or nitrates which can > then be taken up by plants (aquatic and terrestrial) and converted to > proteins nucleic acids; plants cannot biologically take up atmospheric > nitrogen. > > Cyanobacteria is found in just about all habitats, aquatic and > terrestrial. Scientists believe it alone was responsible for converting the > original reducing atmosphere of the planet into an oxidating one that led > to the formation of algae and life forms beyond that. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Thanks Byron, > > > > Very interesting reading, can you explain what you mean by cyanobacteria > > 'fixing' the atmospheric nitrogen please? > > > > John*<o)))< > > * > > On 17 July 2012 15:29, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning > or > > > not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond > to > > > the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > > > > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting > > > ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen > cycle > > > is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in > this > > > stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate > into > > > nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another > component > > > of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria > > > involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and > other > > > life forms. > > > > > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there > are > > > several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within > > > nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in > the > > > water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we > > > term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus > no > > > oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since > > > de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will > > > naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be > explained > > > below. > > > > > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter > like > > > fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead > bacteria, > > > etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, > able to > > > live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces > [in > > > biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter > > > media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to > remain > > > potent even when filter media that has been previously used is > completely > > > dry. > > > > > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. > > > They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface > area; > > > studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy > more > > > than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can > reproduce > > > within 15-60 minutes�compare this to the 12-32 hours required by > nitrifying > > > bacteria�you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can > overwhelm > > > > the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, > heterotrophic > > > bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the > > > autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > > > > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium > occurs > > > in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that > collects > > > in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the > substrate in > > > planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this > to > > > non-planted tanks as well. > > > > > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 > > > inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place > > > approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing > hydrogen > > > sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three > cases, it > > > will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow > in > > > finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with > the > > > presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and > > > worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available > in > > > the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level > in the > > > substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than > > > sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > > > > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, > > > having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian > > > Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a > healthy > > > biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > > > > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in > > > freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who > want > > > to see the sources will find the article here: > > > > > > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53849	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

pretty certain this was a joke -----Original Message----- From: haliebackflips@... To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. 100 fish!!!! how long did they last!?! ------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43 AM PDT m davis wrote: > > >that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > >________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > >My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. >But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Al, >> >> just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: >> >> my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. >> That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: >> cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. >> For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. >> >> Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! >> Nora >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: >> > >> > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." >> > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife ? A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >???`?.??.><((((?>.???`?.??.???`?.?><((((?> ?.???`?.?. , .???`?..><((((?> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><?((((><.???`?.??.???`?.?<?((((><?.???`?.?. , .???`?..<?((((><???`?.??. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53850	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/19/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

Oh.... :-S?? ------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:50 PM PDT Deenerz@... wrote: >pretty certain this was a joke > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: haliebackflips@... >To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05 am >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > > > >100 fish!!!! how long did they last!?! > >------------------------------ > >On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43 AM PDT m davis wrote: > >> > >> > >>that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > >> > >> > >>________________________________ > >> From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > >>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > >>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > >> > >>My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > >>But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > >> > >>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Al, > >>> > >>> just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > >>> > >>> my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > >>> That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > >>> cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > >>> For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > >>> > >>> Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > >>> Nora > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------ > >> > >>AquaticLife ? A great way to share experience & ask ?s > >> > >> > >>Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > >>???`?.??.><((((?>.???`?.??.???`?.?><((((?> ?.???`?.?. , .???`?..><((((?> > >>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >><?((((><.???`?.??.???`?.?<?((((><?.???`?.?. , .???`?..<?((((><???`?.??. > >>We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >>If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >> > >>Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53851	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities. Less than 100 = not 100

Hi again, to end the speculation about the amount of fish in our second tank: no there are not 100 fish in our 10 G tank. I am sorry that my message caused this amount of confusion and worries among some members! Al had criticized the amount of fish knowing only about 1 Betta, 2 platy and two schools of Tetra and I had wanted to point out that he was lacking detailed information... (I had not planned on worrying anybody about 100 fish in 10G) So 2 schools with less than 50 each are exactly 5 Neon Tetras and 7 other small Tetras which name I forgot... So according to the 1 inch per gallon rule they might be many (1 Betta, 2 platies, 5 neons and 7 other small Tetra) but on the other hand the water quality is very good and the tank is full with live plants. The platies enjoy each others company and the Tetra schools are just beautiful.... The Betta patrols mostly the upper part of the tank but explores from time to time every corner. They all interact peacefully with each other. So since we stocked this tank after a fishless cycle maybe 2 months ago no fish died and they all appear happy and healthy. I hope that calms down the worries a little bit! I know that in comparison to other experienced fish owners I/we are quite some beginners and it is an ongoing journey. But I am hopeful with constant learning and the message exchange with this forum some mistakes at least can be avoided.... Thanks everybody, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > could be... but she said first she had a betta, some platys, and 2 schools of tetras in there.... then another post said dont worry there are less than 50 in each school...now to my understanding, a betta, some platys and even... one ...small... school of tetras would be pushing it... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > > > > My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > > But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry  about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > > > > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > > > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > > > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > > > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > > > > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > > > Nora > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53852	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

The cleaning of substrate in planted tank is actually harmed and retards growth of plants. Just like soil to land based plants, substrate is the growth medium to water based plants. The nutrients are mostly absorbed through root systems. If you really have a lot of fish poo on the surface of substrate that mean your filtration system is not doing the job. So you need to change your filtration system rather than cleaning the substrate of planted tank. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: bhosking@... Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:25:40 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks I'll try, as much as I understand it (not being a biologist) from my research. Cyanobacteria includes many species, including some that occur in different cell types. One of these, called heterocysts, are specially designed to "fix" nitrogen gas into ammonia, nitrite or nitrates which can then be taken up by plants (aquatic and terrestrial) and converted to proteins nucleic acids; plants cannot biologically take up atmospheric nitrogen. Cyanobacteria is found in just about all habitats, aquatic and terrestrial. Scientists believe it alone was responsible for converting the original reducing atmosphere of the planet into an oxidating one that led to the formation of algae and life forms beyond that. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Thanks Byron, > > Very interesting reading, can you explain what you mean by cyanobacteria > 'fixing' the atmospheric nitrogen please? > > John*<o)))< > * > On 17 July 2012 15:29, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or > > not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to > > the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. > > > > The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting > > ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle > > is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this > > stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into > > nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component > > of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria > > involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other > > life forms. > > > > The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are > > several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within > > nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the > > water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we > > term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no > > oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since > > de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will > > naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained > > below. > > > > Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like > > fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, > > etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to > > live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in > > biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter > > media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain > > potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely > > dry. > > > > These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. > > They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; > > studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more > > than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce > > within 15-60 minutes�compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying > > bacteria�you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm > > the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic > > bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the > > autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. > > > > The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs > > in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects > > in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in > > planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to > > non-planted tanks as well. > > > > In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 > > inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place > > approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen > > sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it > > will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in > > finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the > > presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and > > worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in > > the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the > > substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than > > sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] > > > > Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, > > having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian > > Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy > > biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. > > > > The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in > > freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want > > to see the sources will find the article here: > > > > http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ > > > > Byron. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53853	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks

Well researched and said Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: bhosking@... Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 14:29:03 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks I carried out a fair degree of research into the question of cleaning or not cleaning the substrate in planted tanks, and I will try to respond to the questions I noted in the threads on this topic. The bacteria responsible for the nitrification process of converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate are termed nitrifying. But the nitrogen cycle is only complete (in aquaria) when it includes de-nitrification; in this stage, different bacteria that are termed denitrifying convert nitrate into nitrogen gas which is released back into the atmosphere. Another component of the complete nitrogen cycle in nature but not present in our aquaria involves the "fixing" of atmospheric nitrogen by cyanobacteria and other life forms. The denitrifying bacteria are heterotrophic bacteria, of which there are several species; they utilize nitrate by consuming the oxygen within nitrate and releasing nitrogen gas. They do not require free oxygen in the water so they are facultative anaerobes, and generally occur in what we term "dead spots," which occur when water movement is stopped and thus no oxygen is available. These are the good guys among heterotrophs, since de-nitrification is important in a healthy aquarium. And they will naturally occur in the lower level of the substrate as will be explained below. Some species of heterotrophic bacteria break down dead organic matter like fish waste, dead fish or plant matter, uneaten fish food, dead bacteria, etc. Some are aerobic, but many species are facultative anaerobes, able to live with or without oxygen. Like all bacteria, they colonize surfaces [in biofilms], and these are most prevalent in the substrate and the filter media. Many species can survive complete drying, allowing them to remain potent even when filter media that has been previously used is completely dry. These bacteria have only one requirement to appear and live: organics. They compete with autotrophic bacteria for both oxygen and surface area; studies show that even in relatively clean environments, they occupy more than 50% of the available surface area. And given that they can reproduce within 15-60 minutes�compare this to the 12-32 hours required by nitrifying bacteria�you can see how easily these heterotrophic bacteria can overwhelm the system. In a filter, if sludge is allowed to increase, heterotrophic bacteria will multiply so fast they actually smother and kill the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria. The greatest population of bacteria in a healthy balanced aquarium occurs in the substrate, not the filter. The floc or humic compost that collects in the substrate is the host for the biofilms; this is why the substrate in planted tanks should never be disturbed, and many aquarists apply this to non-planted tanks as well. In very general terms, aerobic nitrification takes place in the top 1-2 inches of the substrate; anaerobic de-nitrification takes place approximately 2-4 inches down, and anaerobic bacteria producing hydrogen sulfide occurs in substrates deeper than 3-4 inches. In all three cases, it will be deeper in coarse substrates (like pea gravel) and more shallow in finer substrates such as sand. These generalities will also vary with the presence of live plant roots and substrate "diggers" such as snails and worms, since these factors result in more oxygen being made available in the substrate, reducing anaerobic bacteria activity. An oxygen level in the substrate of as little as 1 ppm promotes nitrogen reduction rather than sulfur reduction (hydrogen sulfide). [6] Maintaining a substrate of fine gravel or sand no deeper than 4 inches, having live plants rooted in the substrate, and keeping Malaysian Livebearing snails are the best and safest methods of providing a healthy biological system for aerobic and denitrifying anaerobic bacteria. The above is excerpted from an article I compiled on bacteria in freshwater aquaria, and the source references are included. Those who want to see the sources will find the article here: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/bacteria-freshwater-aquarium-74891/ Byron. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53854	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: need fish tank and coral!!

The yall i need a 55g fish tank (or more) stand too if possible,does any body have one you knows someone who has one?my # is 936-777-9094

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53855	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: need fish tank and coral!!

You may want to mention where you live :) Try the following. You can try your local Craigslist. I have gotten some great deals this way. Freecycle. Local Penny saver or classified ads. Kajiji Ebay. Aquabid.com Good luck! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Hallie Ness <haliebackflips@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:14 am Subject: [AquaticLife] need fish tank and coral!! The yall i need a 55g fish tank (or more) stand too if possible,does any body have one you knows someone who has one?my # is 936-777-9094

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53856	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities.

Please can you imagine putting 100 people and make them live in a cramp space and do you feel they will enjoy it? Karl To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com From: haliebackflips@... Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 18:20:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. Oh.... :-S?? ------------------------------ On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:50 PM PDT Deenerz@... wrote: >pretty certain this was a joke > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: haliebackflips@... >To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05 am >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > > > >100 fish!!!! how long did they last!?! > >------------------------------ > >On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43 AM PDT m davis wrote: > >> > >> > >>that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > >> > >> > >>________________________________ > >> From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > >>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > >>Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > >> > >>My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > >>But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > >> > >>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Al, > >>> > >>> just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > >>> > >>> my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > >>> That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > >>> cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > >>> For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > >>> > >>> Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > >>> Nora > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > >>> > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------ > >> > >>AquaticLife ? A great way to share experience & ask ?s > >> > >> > >>Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > >>???`?.??.><((((?>.???`?.??.???`?.?><((((?> ?.???`?.?. , .???`?..><((((?> > >>PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > >><?((((><.???`?.??.???`?.?<?((((><?.???`?.?. , .???`?..<?((((><???`?.??. > >>We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >> > >>If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >> > >>Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >> > >>Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >> > >>Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53857	From: k chen	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities and fish death camps

Even the 100 fishes are tetra, 10 gallon is not enough room for them to school and swim.....You need a long rectangular shaped tank to really school 100 tetra and show them off and create a natural environment for them. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: davis4000_2000@... Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:10:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities and fish death camps 1 gallon per inch of fish; even if those fish are an inch long, each, she'd need a 100 gallon tank. I over filter mine and have plants in it, but i doan wanna create a fish ghetto, or should I say death camp. ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. could be... but she said first she had a betta, some platys, and 2 schools of tetras in there.... then another post said dont worry there are less than 50 in each school...now to my understanding, a betta, some platys and even... one ...small... school of tetras would be pushing it... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > > > > that post sounds like sarcasm 2 me. anyone with any kind of sense would not put 100 fishy kritters in a 10 gallon tank. mdavis > > > ________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:45 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: responsibilities. > > My note wasn't directed at anyone in particular; more of an overall impression of some posters, from my reading of this group for the last year and a half. > But now that you mention it Nora, you did tell me once " not to worry about you overstocking... as you did have less than a hundred fish in your 10 gallon." Does that sound like someone who is out for the pets best, and who listens to advice... in say stocking, for that exanple? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@> wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > just to clarify to avoid a general misunderstanding about the recent message tree: > > > > my question about "not gravel cleaning" did not come from a desire to have less work but to maintain the tank properly. > > That means I have to figure out was is better for the tank: > > cleaning the gravel but disturbing the plant roots and maybe destroying a healthy equilibrium in the gravel layers or not cleaning the gravel and promoting a (maybe/hopefully) self sustained ecosystem in the gravel. > > For that the experiences and scientific backgrounds I can get from other fish owners are most valuable to me. > > > > Thanks to everybody who contributed their knowledge! > > Nora > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > As the keeper of two fishtanks, an Australian shepherd, and a 17 year old cat; I think that we should not be asking ourselves, "what is the minimum I have to do to keep my pets alive." Rather, we should ask ourselves, "What more can I do to keep my pets healthy and happy." > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53858	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/20/2012
Subject: Re: responsibilities. Less than 100 = not 100

Hi Nora, Happy to help! your tank sounds like it is going great, well done. John*<o)))<* On 20 July 2012 04:19, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi again, > > to end the speculation about the amount of fish in our second tank: > > no there are not 100 fish in our 10 G tank. > > I am sorry that my message caused this amount of confusion and worries > among some members! > > Al had criticized the amount of fish knowing only about 1 Betta, 2 platy > and two schools of Tetra and I had wanted to point out that he was lacking > detailed information... (I had not planned on worrying anybody about 100 > fish in 10G) > > So 2 schools with less than 50 each are exactly > 5 Neon Tetras and 7 other small Tetras which name I forgot... > > So according to the 1 inch per gallon rule they might be many (1 Betta, 2 > platies, 5 neons and 7 other small Tetra) but on the other hand the water > quality is very good and the tank is full with live plants. The platies > enjoy each others company and the Tetra schools are just beautiful.... The > Betta patrols mostly the upper part of the tank but explores from time to > time every corner. They all interact peacefully with each other. > > So since we stocked this tank after a fishless cycle maybe 2 months ago no > fish died and they all appear happy and healthy. > > I hope that calms down the worries a little bit! > > I know that in comparison to other experienced fish owners I/we are quite > some beginners and it is an ongoing journey. But I am hopeful with constant > learning and the message exchange with this forum some mistakes at least > can be avoided.... > > Thanks everybody, > Nora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53859	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 7/21/2012
Subject: Re: full planted vs. well-planted aquarium

Hey guys. I've been playing catchup on e-mails from this group and reading about plants and cycling the tank. I've been reading with interest because we are talking about getting a tank. I guess, the N00B question from me is which is better, a well planted tank or the "full planted" and how do you best determine a well planted tank. We are looking at a 20 gallon tank and using community oriented fish. It's been a long time since I/we had a full aquarium (and plus I was in 4th grade when Mom killed the tank), so I don't remember a whole lot about the maintained of the tank. Also, should I wait to add live plants to the tank since I'm pretty much a N00B at a larger tank? Six years ago while I was on recruiting detail, I had a Betta (I named him Golic <grin>) and had to leave him with my replacement when I moved to Germany, so I have been back in the fish arena so to speak. I can post some pictures of him later, but I digress. Thanks for all the help and I will probably be posting other questions as I think of them Rob On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > ** > > > Nora, > I have a few photos in my album here in the group (Dawn Moneyhan's tanks) > that represent full/heavily planted tanks. Take a look but pay attention to > the size of the tanks listed as well... so you can get a feel for how many > plants it has taken to do this. If I get a chance later to browse some of > the other member's tanks and find more for you I will do that and post the > album names for you. > > Dawn > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > in the previous discussion about the effect of plants on the water > quality it was mentioned that a well planted tank is often mistaken for a > full planted tank. > > Does anybody have some pictures of full versus/and well planted tanks or > knows where to find them? > > > > Thanks, Nora > > > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ ------ Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53860	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/22/2012
Subject: Water fleas?

I think iv got water fleas, just these Itty Bitty black bouncy guys in the bottom corner if my tank. They're more concentrated on one area but theyre a few else where. Places iv read say very little about them other than they're either from over feeding, or plants. Which I'm not over feeding because I'm starving the snails out of my tank successfully, also said their eggs can be dry and ride in on fish food too. But haven't read anything bad n said the baby fish will eat them. Is all of this true for the most part? I'm just worried I dumped a lot of time into my tank the last few days n got a nice brood that I don't want to all be lost over these,little black bouncy things. N they do swim. But they're too small to really see anything but a speck. Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53861	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?

What you describe is actually food for the fish and cause no harm to anything. But they may not be there due to over feeding as most are algae eaters. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >I think iv got water fleas, just these Itty >Bitty black bouncy guys in the bottom corner if >my tank. They're more concentrated on one area >but theyre a few else where. Places iv read say >very little about them other than they're either >from over feeding, or plants. Which I'm not over >feeding because I'm starving the snails out of >my tank successfully, also said their eggs can >be dry and ride in on fish food too. But haven't >read anything bad n said the baby fish will eat >them. Is all of this true for the most part? I'm >just worried I dumped a lot of time into my tank >the last few days n got a nice brood that I >don't want to all be lost over these,little >black bouncy things. N they do swim. But they're >too small to really see anything but a speck. > >Kiersten Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53862	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?

Hi Kiersten, How deep is the gravel where these things are concentrated? John*<o)))<* On 23 July 2012 05:29, Kiersten <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > ** > > > I think iv got water fleas, just these Itty Bitty black bouncy guys in the > bottom corner if my tank. They're more concentrated on one area but theyre > a few else where. Places iv read say very little about them other than > they're either from over feeding, or plants. Which I'm not over feeding > because I'm starving the snails out of my tank successfully, also said > their eggs can be dry and ride in on fish food too. But haven't read > anything bad n said the baby fish will eat them. Is all of this true for > the most part? I'm just worried I dumped a lot of time into my tank the > last few days n got a nice brood that I don't want to all be lost over > these,little black bouncy things. N they do swim. But they're too small to > really see anything but a speck. > > Kiersten > Sent from my U.S. Cellular�� Android-powered phone > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53863	From: Kiersten	Date: 7/23/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?

It ranges from 21/2 to 31/4. Iv got little dips n hills going on in my gravel. I like the look. Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: >Hi Kiersten, > > How deep is the gravel where these things are concentrated? > > John*<o)))<* > >On 23 July 2012 05:29, Kiersten <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I think iv got water fleas, just these Itty Bitty black bouncy guys in the >> bottom corner if my tank. They're more concentrated on one area but theyre >> a few else where. Places iv read say very little about them other than >> they're either from over feeding, or plants. Which I'm not over feeding >> because I'm starving the snails out of my tank successfully, also said >> their eggs can be dry and ride in on fish food too. But haven't read >> anything bad n said the baby fish will eat them. Is all of this true for >> the most part? I'm just worried I dumped a lot of time into my tank the >> last few days n got a nice brood that I don't want to all be lost over >> these,little black bouncy things. N they do swim. But they're too small to >> really see anything but a speck. >> >> Kiersten >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular�� Android-powered phone >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53864	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2012
Subject: Re: Water fleas?

Hi Kiersten, I can't think what these things could be-doesn't sound like anything I've come across in my limited experience. Ideally your gravel wants to be a little less depth-especially in smaller tanks a thick layer of grave can loose you several gallons of free-swimming space. However-if it's working for you the don't change anything drastically. John*<o)))< * On 24 July 2012 03:17, Kiersten <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > ** > > > It ranges from 21/2 to 31/4. Iv got little dips n hills going on in my > gravel. I like the look. > Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Android-powered phone > > SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > >Hi Kiersten, > > > > How deep is the gravel where these things are concentrated? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > >On 23 July 2012 05:29, Kiersten <ariesstarfire.blue@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> I think iv got water fleas, just these Itty Bitty black bouncy guys in > the > >> bottom corner if my tank. They're more concentrated on one area but > theyre > >> a few else where. Places iv read say very little about them other than > >> they're either from over feeding, or plants. Which I'm not over feeding > >> because I'm starving the snails out of my tank successfully, also said > >> their eggs can be dry and ride in on fish food too. But haven't read > >> anything bad n said the baby fish will eat them. Is all of this true for > >> the most part? I'm just worried I dumped a lot of time into my tank the > >> last few days n got a nice brood that I don't want to all be lost over > >> these,little black bouncy things. N they do swim. But they're too small > to > >> really see anything but a speck. > >> > >> Kiersten > >> Sent from my U.S. Cellular�� Android-powered phone > >> > >> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53865	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Lighting question... Help!

Hello All, I was wondering is there a light that I can utilize at night too be on or something that make my standard hood light slowing turn on getting brighter and brighter each minute upon day hours? I ask because I run a 150gal wild fish tank "Bass, bluegill, channel cat, bullhead cats, and a few other breeds. Anyway, when I turn the lights on in the morning the fish go nuts. Mostly the catfish freak out and swim in high speed around the tank and stir-up rocks and other things in the tank. I need the lights to slowing go on and slowly brighten just like in nature when the sun rises. I feel bad because instant on freaks them out so badly. What do you all suggest? Jeffrey

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53866	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?

Anyone know if their is a iPad or PC program that is made for aquariums so I can log all my maintenance and other essential stuff related to my 150gal freshwater setup. Please let me know what is good out there..

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53867	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?

Yes there is. It's called AquaPlanner. Just go to the app store and do a search. You'll love it. You can even put pictures in it. Gail D. Who's enjoying her 125 gal freshwater cichlid tank and 30 gal with parrot cichlids. Thanks to the experts here I got my nitrate levels to where they should be and all is well since I thinned out the number of cichlids in the tanks. Now I truly get what a healthy tank should be like. On Jul 26, 2012, at 9:56 AM, "Jeffrey" <n9mxtham@...> wrote: > Anyone know if their is a iPad or PC program that is made for aquariums so I can log all my maintenance and other essential stuff related to my 150gal freshwater setup. > > Please let me know what is good out there.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53868	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Frestwater Aquarium APP or Software?

approve</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53869	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Digital Monitoring Device?

Hey All, If their a monitoring system that would digitally monitor all critical systems inside my tank. I would for something to continuously monitor my tank and log/alert me when things start changing to a stressful or critical level. Or go the cheaper route, which I saw at petsmart a hanging monitor that would monitor my tank by color but have to change it after 6 months or something like that. Does this actually work? I am a gadget techie guy and would love to have automatic monitoring of this tank so it can be perfectly stable. Please let me know what you know or suggest!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53870	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/26/2012
Subject: Re: Lighting question... Help!

Hi Jeffrey, When I was planning on upgrading my Goldfish tank 4 years ago I had similar thoughts about the lighting & wanted something that would gradually brighten & dim the lights at the appropriate times of the day. The problem with regular strip lights is they use gas & that means that they are off until the current supplied to them is great enough & then the starter motor kicks in & they are instantly on a full brightness-there is no half way house. I did find a company that made really expensive computer controlled lighting units that did replicate daylight with sun & cloud-even to the extent of having Summer & Winter lighting times with sunrise & sunset. The night time hours were punctuated with a blue LED moon in lifelike phases ie getting brighter until the full moon & then getting darker with some nights moonless just like the real thing. Unfortunately I cannot remember the make offhand & a quick Google didn't turn anything up either so perhaps someone reading can help identify this? Good though those lighting units were I was not prepared to pay out close on �3000 for the lights which was the same price as my custom built 100 gallon acrylic tank so instead I got a couple of excellent double T8 units by BioPur off a German eBay site & they came to a very reasonable �100 including Airmail to the UK. These are a good company because whereve in the world you are they fix the voltage accordingly on the model you have won. As supplied they each had 2 standard white bulbs but I swapped one in each for an Arcadia pink tropical bulb which together with the white light gives a reasonable approximation of daylight & also a softer & warmer caste to the fish & decor whereas both white lights were quite harsh & cold. I also got a set of blue moonlight LEDs off eBay for �15 & I was all set. I have a lot of real plants so I give my tank 7.5 hours of light from the units but they don't come on until the early afternoon because the natural light in the room takes care of the plants in the a.m. The fish have already experienced a natural & gradual daybreak & are already asking me for their breakfast by the time I draw the curtains in the morning. The lights coming on in the afternoon don't cause any sudden changes because it is already light-they just add some intensity, especially during the Winter months when it is starting to go dull soon after lunch time. When the lights go off it is dark but as they are set 30 minutes apart then only one end of the tank is suddenly darker then the other but not by a great deal & I have the sidelights on in the room anyway a it is where I watch TV & work at my computer. 10 minutes before the second main unit goes off my blue LEDs come on so again there is not really a great difference for the fish. The LEDs are on until 0100 in the morning & when they go off I am still usually on my computer but only with a small sidelight so the fish are not bothered. I would add that this 3 hour moonlight window is one of their most active times & they really love the moonlight, I have 4 big Goldfish, 2 of them are silver & 2 are orange. The blue LEDs make the silver fish blue & the orange fish black-it looks fantastic. The moonlights are in one strip connected to a transformer plug that steps down to 12 volts. There are several different lighting intensities available by clicking a control on the plug unit-I have mine set around half way. The very highest setting is way too bright & they look like lasers, the lowest is too dim to illuminate anything. They are in 3 separate strips so I have one in the middle of the tank &one at each end at the top. Because my tank is one piece I have the lighting units & also the LEDs on the top so they shine through the clear acrylic. After the moonlights go out there is still some light in the room from the street lights outside so I gradually draw the curtains until the room is near pitch black & then retire leaving the fish to get a good nights sleep in darkness just as they would outside in a pond. I know this is not an option for some people but me & my fish have lived this way for many years now & it seems to work great with no stress or sudden lighting changes-anyway, just some ideas for you. John*<o)))<* On 26 July 2012 14:19, Jeffrey <n9mxtham@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello All, > I was wondering is there a light that I can utilize at night too be on or > something that make my standard hood light slowing turn on getting brighter > and brighter each minute upon day hours? > > I ask because I run a 150gal wild fish tank "Bass, bluegill, channel cat, > bullhead cats, and a few other breeds. Anyway, when I turn the lights on in > the morning the fish go nuts. Mostly the catfish freak out and swim in high > speed around the tank and stir-up rocks and other things in the tank. I > need the lights to slowing go on and slowly brighten just like in nature > when the sun rises. I feel bad because instant on freaks them out so badly. > > What do you all suggest? > > Jeffrey > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53871	From: Manuel Mejia	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Flourite & Flourish

Hello everyone. Decided to go with Flourite as substrate to try and grow some plants. On their website; Seachem indicates the product does not need to be replaced as it remains effective for the life of the aquarium. This is somewhat vague as it could mean the chemical properties remain or that the clay pebbles will not dissolve over time. Does anyone have any experience with this product? If the chemical properties stay the same, one can assume there would be no need to add addtional supplemets like Flourish down the road. If on the other hand it is the clay/pebbles that do not dissolve over time then it would be recomeneded that one add additional supplements such as Flourish? Any feedback/opinions will be greatly appreciated. Alex SemperFi Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53872	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/28/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish

I use fluorite and do no change the soil. But if I have heavy root feeders like swords or crypts then I do add root tabs or other fertilizers inserted into the soil. The balance of nitrate and phosphorus in the water is important too, but that may be fine with just fish waste and food, you have to test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manuel Mejia Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 11:22 AM To: Aquatic Life Group Subject: [AquaticLife] Flourite & Flourish Hello everyone. Decided to go with Flourite as substrate to try and grow some plants. On their website; Seachem indicates the product does not need to be replaced as it remains effective for the life of the aquarium. This is somewhat vague as it could mean the chemical properties remain or that the clay pebbles will not dissolve over time. Does anyone have any experience with this product? If the chemical properties stay the same, one can assume there would be no need to add addtional supplemets like Flourish down the road. If on the other hand it is the clay/pebbles that do not dissolve over time then it would be recomeneded that one add additional supplements such as Flourish? Any feedback/opinions will be greatly appreciated. Alex SemperFi Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53873	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish

I set up a 70g tank with Flourite substrate 15 months ago. I discontinued other fertilizers, assuming the substrate plants woould assimilate from the substrate, but apparently not. I am still having to dose Flourish Comprehensive Supplement twice weekly or the plants including those in the substrate will yellow. My swords in this tank are growing no better than the same species in other tanks with plain sand which also get Flourish Comprehensive. Those in the tanks with plain sand, Flourish Comprehensive and Flourish Tabs are growing very well. I am frankly very disappointed in this product. It has not "broken down" so it is still just as it was when set up as far as physical properties. The level of nutrient fertilization seems non-existant from what I can see. Having other tanks with sand and gravel substrates, identical lighting and plant species, has provided something of a comparison. I will never use this or any similar product again. It was very expensive. Another aspect is the sharpness of the substrate, that did affect my corys such that I moved them out of this tank and they improved. I choose Flourite over Eco-Complete mainly because I had thought after handling both products in the store that Flourite was smoother. But it is still rough. Even now, after 15 months, if I push my hand into the substrate it feels very hard and rough. Not a good substrate for fish like corys, loaches, catfish. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Manuel Mejia <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone. > Decided to go with Flourite as substrate to try and grow some plants. > > On their website; Seachem indicates the product does not need to be replaced as it remains effective for the life of the aquarium. This is somewhat vague as it could mean the chemical properties remain or that the clay pebbles will not dissolve over time. Does anyone have any experience with this product? > > If the chemical properties stay the same, one can assume there would be no need to add addtional supplemets like Flourish down the road. > > If on the other hand it is the clay/pebbles that do not dissolve over time then it would be recomeneded that one add additional supplements such as Flourish? > > Any feedback/opinions will be greatly appreciated. > > Alex > SemperFi > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53874	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/29/2012
Subject: Re: Flourite & Flourish

I use it for it’s texture, not fertilization. And I pot the gravel product for plant roots but for substrate I use fluorite sand. I agree, you still need to keep nitrate and phosphate at the right levels, and if your plants consume them faster than the fish produce them, you will have to supplement. I definitely recommending testing for those nutrients. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of amphibian_ca Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 10:10 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Flourite & Flourish I set up a 70g tank with Flourite substrate 15 months ago. I discontinued other fertilizers, assuming the substrate plants woould assimilate from the substrate, but apparently not. I am still having to dose Flourish Comprehensive Supplement twice weekly or the plants including those in the substrate will yellow. My swords in this tank are growing no better than the same species in other tanks with plain sand which also get Flourish Comprehensive. Those in the tanks with plain sand, Flourish Comprehensive and Flourish Tabs are growing very well. I am frankly very disappointed in this product. It has not "broken down" so it is still just as it was when set up as far as physical properties. The level of nutrient fertilization seems non-existant from what I can see. Having other tanks with sand and gravel substrates, identical lighting and plant species, has provided something of a comparison. I will never use this or any similar product again. It was very expensive. Another aspect is the sharpness of the substrate, that did affect my corys such that I moved them out of this tank and they improved. I choose Flourite over Eco-Complete mainly because I had thought after handling both products in the store that Flourite was smoother. But it is still rough. Even now, after 15 months, if I push my hand into the substrate it feels very hard and rough. Not a good substrate for fish like corys, loaches, catfish. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Manuel Mejia <amejia1976@...> wrote: > > Hello everyone. > Decided to go with Flourite as substrate to try and grow some plants. > > On their website; Seachem indicates the product does not need to be replaced as it remains effective for the life of the aquarium. This is somewhat vague as it could mean the chemical properties remain or that the clay pebbles will not dissolve over time. Does anyone have any experience with this product? > > If the chemical properties stay the same, one can assume there would be no need to add addtional supplemets like Flourish down the road. > > If on the other hand it is the clay/pebbles that do not dissolve over time then it would be recomeneded that one add additional supplements such as Flourish? > > Any feedback/opinions will be greatly appreciated. > > Alex > SemperFi > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53875	From: Jeffrey	Date: 7/31/2012
Subject: Anyone from Illinois??

Anyone from Illinois?? If so can you contact me off site so I can chat about local shops too shop at. Thanks

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53876	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/1/2012
Subject: segregated.

hi all. i have had room for a school of tetras for a while now.... but had to wait quite some time for what i wanted. finally my not so/l.f.s. got in some rummynose tetras. so far i think they are a wonderfull little fish; great schoolers and nice looking, always on the go too. i bought 20 and have only lost 1, that being in the first week... i must be doing something right... from what i read they are delicate, and expected to lose more. my question is; they have been in quarantine for 2 weeks and their noses are bright red, [a sign of good health], they are active and seem healthy. would the consensus say that 2 weeks has been enough, and they are ready to go to the main tank? tks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53877	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: segregated.

The general consensus is that new fish be quarantined for at least a month before being added to one's main tank containing other fishes, no matter how well they appear to be doing. As for Rummynose Tetras being delicate, while the constitution of many of our aquarium species seem to always be changing -- and not necessarily for the better -- this Tetra used to be among the hardiest. Not really sure if it in fact has become "delicate," but I used to keep the outside as a pond fish many years ago and they always did well without any particular pampering. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53878	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Anyone from Illinois area??

I started a new group for people who are strictly from Illinois so that we locals can chit chat about the hobby. Also, for fish searches. Say you have been looking for a red tailed cat fish for your tank. Can't seem to locate one. Well, sure enough the local shop be me has 3. So, gladly tell you where to obtain one locally. If your interested in joining... I added a quick link in the Links section of this site. Also, here it is just in case you get lost! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ILFWAGF See you Illinois lovers around.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53879	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2012
Subject: Re: segregated.

a month... maaaan.... i'll try to be patient. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > The general consensus is that new fish be quarantined for at least a month > before being added to one's main tank containing other fishes, no matter how > well they appear to be doing. As for Rummynose Tetras being delicate, > while the constitution of many of our aquarium species seem to always be > changing -- and not necessarily for the better -- this Tetra used to be among the > hardiest. Not really sure if it in fact has become "delicate," but I used to > keep the outside as a pond fish many years ago and they always did well > without any particular pampering. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53880	From: kwondrash	Date: 8/3/2012
Subject: keeping killies in c ommunity tank

Good morning! I am considering trying my hand with a new species of fish for me. I'm wondering if anyone has had luck keeping any types of the more colorful killifish in a community tank, with perhaps guppies and a dwarf gourami? I'm thinking of getting 2 pairs, not sure of the species yet, but possibly a Gardneri type? Tank is a planted 30 gallon, PH is 7.6, water is fairly soft but closer in range to what is reading as hard. I can use RO to lower that reading if I have to, but the LFS I saw these at said they had success at keeping them in "regular tap water" ?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53881	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/4/2012
Subject: Re: keeping killies in c ommunity tank

>Good morning! I am considering trying my hand with a new species of >fish for me. I'm wondering if anyone has had luck keeping any types >of the more colorful killifish in a community tank, with perhaps >guppies and a dwarf gourami? > I'm thinking of getting 2 pairs, not sure of the species yet, but >possibly a Gardneri type? Tank is a planted 30 gallon, PH is 7.6, >water is fairly soft but closer in range to what is reading as hard. >I can use RO to lower that reading if I have to, but the LFS I saw >these at said they had success at keeping them in "regular tap >water" ? Tap water type water is just fine for most all Killifish. Certainly Gardneri species will do well in this type of water. They might be a little aggressive toward the Guppies and will keep the population down. There certainly is no problem with keeping Killifish in community tanks. The greatest concern is the fish jumping out of the tank. That one behavior is why local fish stores don't sell Gardneri and most all Killifish. One needs to completely cover the top of the tank to prevent the fish leaving the tank. If they don't like where they are, they will leave. They don't like a lot of fast moving water. They come from slow moving streams or small lakes which slowly change their water moment by moment. Constant water changes are not possible for most aquarists so just remember consistent deep water changes frequently will keep these killies happy along with most all tropical fishes. Good luck with your new Killifish! Let us know what is going on with your Community Tank. Charles Harrison, Chairman BOT, American Killifish Association

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53882	From: Whey	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Fishing

Anyone in the Greater Toronto Area that goes fishing? Would like to go on a fishing trip with like minded people.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53883	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fishing

If fishing in the Greater Toronto Area has anything to do with tropical fish, one of our moderators has things bass akwards to have approved this spam. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53884	From: johmanda	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: newbie

I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so that I can put some livestock in.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53885	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2012
Subject: Re: newbie

Welcome aboard. Look forward to hearing about your saltwater setup. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: johmanda <johmanda@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 6:59 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] newbie I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so that I can put some livestock in.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53886	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: What Is The Best Aquarium Software??

Hello All, Just wondering what you all suggest for the best Aquarium Logging software?? I want to log and track all my water quality, fish data, graphs, and all that necessary stuff. I was looking at AquarioGest already and that seems like a great fit but the best people to ask are others into the hobby as much as I am! I am already using AquaPlanner on the iPad and works nicely.. but since I have 5 other PC's around the house I would like to have a dedicated computer to my aquarium stuff. So, what do you all suggest?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53887	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: newbie

Welcome to the group, nice to hear you are doing a fishless cycle. John*<o)))< * On 11 August 2012 02:12, johmanda <johmanda@...> wrote: > ** > > > I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will > become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good > spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so > that I can put some livestock in. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53888	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/11/2012
Subject: Re: newbie

Thank you for the welcome. Patience has never been one of my virtues. My daughter and son-in-law has been here all week and we have been visiting fish/coral stores. At least I have an idea of what I want to put in after it cycles. Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie Welcome to the group, nice to hear you are doing a fishless cycle. John*<o)))< * On 11 August 2012 02:12, johmanda <johmanda@... <mailto:johmanda%40tampabay.rr.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will > become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good > spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so > that I can put some livestock in. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53889	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: newbie

Fishless is the only safe way to cycle a marine tank. Things work a little different in saltwater than they do in freshwater. Can I ask what kind of livestock you're planning to add to this tank? What kind of lighting you have? What your spg/salinity is reading? Push yourself in regards to patience, it is well worth the wait. Being impatient with saltwater makes for nothing more than a dead mess. Marine animals are much more sensitive to and reliant on their environment than freshwater animals. Mistakes are less tolerated and not only does that mean loss of life but lots of extra expense, too. Welcome to the group! It'll be nice to have another "reefer" here among us. :-) As much as I love all my freshwater, I think my biggest addiction is saltwater, reef and otherwise. One last tip before I have to call it a night... be sure you are also watching over calcium levels along with the standard 4 (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH). Calcium has very little wiggle room. Too high or too low and you will have a lot of issues. It should be within the right range (400 - 450) and stable before you put any kind of animals into the tank, and then you will want to test it regularly (before every water change for the first 6 months at least) to make sure it remains stable. Calcium can be depleted quickly by various animals in a reef tank. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kim Floyd" <johmanda@...> wrote: > > Thank you for the welcome. Patience has never been one of my virtues. My > daughter and son-in-law has been here all week and we have been visiting > fish/coral stores. At least I have an idea of what I want to put in after > it cycles. > > > > > > Johmanda > > Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs > > www.johmanda.com > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie > > > > > > Welcome to the group, nice to hear you are doing a fishless cycle. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 11 August 2012 02:12, johmanda <johmanda@... > <mailto:johmanda%40tampabay.rr.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will > > become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good > > spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so > > that I can put some livestock in. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53890	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/12/2012
Subject: Re: newbie - Dawn

I really like the Hammer Corals but that may be a little too difficult for me as a beginner. I think I prefer the LPS corals over the SPS corals. As for fish- I want a n Orchid Dottyback and my husband wants a Scooter Blenny. I also want a starfish of some kind. The lighting that I currently have is a 36” 2 bulb T5 fixture with an Actinic and a white that my son-in-law bought for me. The salinity is on the high side right now at 1.026 but I know that will come down as I top off the tank from evaporation. As to the Calcium – it was low when I set the tank up but has come up with the addition of the live rock and a tap water conditioner. We are on well water and that is what I used for the initial set up but I have access to bottled water and that is what I will be using for top off and water changes. I attended the last hour of the Tampa Bay Reef Club Conference here in Tampa last weekend. Every attendee got some free Blue-legged Hermit Crabs so I have about 30 of those in the tank and they are doing well. I figured they were free so I wouldn’t lose anything if they didn’t make it. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and surfing on the internet. I also have two great resources for advice in my son-in-law and a good friend that has been in ‘reefs’ for a long time. She is very knowledgeable in what fish are compatible with the corals as well as with each other among other myriads of knowledge. Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 5:56 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: newbie Fishless is the only safe way to cycle a marine tank. Things work a little different in saltwater than they do in freshwater. Can I ask what kind of livestock you're planning to add to this tank? What kind of lighting you have? What your spg/salinity is reading? Push yourself in regards to patience, it is well worth the wait. Being impatient with saltwater makes for nothing more than a dead mess. Marine animals are much more sensitive to and reliant on their environment than freshwater animals. Mistakes are less tolerated and not only does that mean loss of life but lots of extra expense, too. Welcome to the group! It'll be nice to have another "reefer" here among us. :-) As much as I love all my freshwater, I think my biggest addiction is saltwater, reef and otherwise. One last tip before I have to call it a night... be sure you are also watching over calcium levels along with the standard 4 (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH). Calcium has very little wiggle room. Too high or too low and you will have a lot of issues. It should be within the right range (400 - 450) and stable before you put any kind of animals into the tank, and then you will want to test it regularly (before every water change for the first 6 months at least) to make sure it remains stable. Calcium can be depleted quickly by various animals in a reef tank. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Kim Floyd" <johmanda@...> wrote: > > Thank you for the welcome. Patience has never been one of my virtues. My > daughter and son-in-law has been here all week and we have been visiting > fish/coral stores. At least I have an idea of what I want to put in after > it cycles. > > > > > > Johmanda > > Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs > > www.johmanda.com > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:37 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] newbie > > > > > > Welcome to the group, nice to hear you are doing a fishless cycle. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 11 August 2012 02:12, johmanda <johmanda@... <mailto:johmanda@...%0b> > <mailto:johmanda%40tampabay.rr.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I am new here and live in Central Florida. I have just set up what will > > become my first reef tank. It is a 46 gal. bowfront. I'm getting a good > > spike on the Nitrites aqnd Nitrates. Can't wait for it to fully cycle so > > that I can put some livestock in. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53891	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 8/13/2012
Subject: A New Book : Fauna Palaestina - Part 2. (July 2012)

Fauna Palaestina - Part Two (ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2). The Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 - 2009 Das Buch: Fauna Palaestina - Teil Zwei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 1983 - 2009 By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2 Erschienen: 1. Auflage / First Edition : July 2012, Shaaban 1433 H Publisher: Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine Website of the Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 – 2009 (ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2): http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart2.htm Literaturangaben. - Parallelsacht. in arab. Schr. - Text teilw. engl., teilw. arab. - Teilw. in arab. Schr. Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, July 2012, Shaaban 1433 H, ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2, Paperback Softcover. 1. Auflage / First Edition: 208 Seiten / Pages (Arabic Part 120 Pages and the English Part 88 Pages). zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen (Numerous black and white photography). Format: 23.5 x 16,5 cm, Gewicht (Weight): 345 gram. Preis: 30,00 Euro. Publisher: Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine. Tel. 00972-542263454. www.aljundi.biz, info@... Website of the Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 – 2009 (ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2): http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart2.htm E-mail of the Author: jaffacity@... English / German Cover: The State of Palestine Stamp with the Palestine Sunbird. Designed by the Palestinian Artist Khaled Jarrar Arabic Cover: A Collection of Palestinian Postage Stamps and Coins and the Jaffa Coin Medal. Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Printed and bound in Jerusalem, Palestine. Preface: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL Packed into Palestine's small area are snow-covered mountains, parched deserts, fertile fields, lush woodlands and long stretches of sand dunes. No less than four different geographical zones are included in Palestine, and the country's climate ranges from semi-arid to temperate to subtropical. All of this makes Palestine home to a stunning variety of plants and animals. Some 47,000 living species have been identified in Palestine, with another 4,000 assumed to exist. There are 116 species of mammals native to Palestine, 511 kinds of birds, 97 types of reptiles and nine types of amphibians. Some 2,780 types of plants grow countrywide, from Alpine flowers on northern mountain slopes to bright red coral peonies and desert papyrus reeds in the south. My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". I was especially interested in the Arabian Wildlife, and in particular, in my Homeland Palestine. My first zoological article about the Palestinian Fauna dates back to February 1983. The article was entitled "The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula". It was published in the Palestinian "Al Khalisah" Bulletin, Kuwait University. Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide (ISSN 0178 – 6288). My first zoological article in "Gazelle" was about "Order Lagomorpha in Palestine". Till now 98 "Gazelle" Issues were published; and many of my articles were about Palestinian Animals. Finally, and after more than 33 years in Zoological research and studies, in Palestine and many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my first book (Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin) in July 2004, and my second book (Aquatica Arabica) in August 2005, and my third book (Mammalia Arabica) in July 2006, and my fourth book (Felidae Arabica) in July 2007, and my fifth book (Carnivora Arabica) in September 2008, and my sixth book (Fauna Palaestina – Part One) in September 2009, and my seventh book (Fauna Emiratus – Part One) in November 2010; I finally decided to publish my newest scientific book in the Holy City of Jerusalem, Palestine, containing selected "Palestinian" research and articles which were published between 1983 - 2009. It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in Palestine. But recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and efforts to conserve the Palestinian Fauna. Palestinian animals lived with humans for thousands of years. There are a lot of stories concerning Prophets with Palestinian animals, which were mentioned in the Holy Quran, Bible and Torah. I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna Palaestina", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Palestinian and Arabian Fauna. Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-von Jaffa. Jerusalem, Palestine. 05th July 2012 (My 50th Birthday). About the Author: A Palestinian-German Zoologist: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian-German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" (ISSN 0178-6288), the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of eight books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009), Fauna Emiratus – Part One (2010), Fauna Palaestina – Part Two (2012), and the co-author of the book "Palestine: A Guide" (2005/2006). He discovered and scientifically named five new animal subspecies. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates; and the Arabian or Emirati Four-Tusked Elephant Fossil († Stegotetrabelodon syrticus emiratus Khalaf, 2010) from the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free scientific researcher and publisher in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (13 Years). Contents of the Book: English Articles: 1. Preface 2. The Nile Crocodile in Palestine 3. Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine 4. Threatened Mammals in Palestine 5. Flora and Fauna in Palestine 6. Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast 7. Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast 8. The Jaffa Amphipod (Ampelisca jaffaensis, Bellan-Santini & Kaim-Malka, 1977) from Jaffa, Palestine 9. The Common Weasel (Mustela nivalis, Linnaeus 1766) in Palestine and the East Mediterranean Region 10. Ornithomimid Dinosaur Tracks from Beit Zeit, West of Jerusalem, Palestine Arabic Articles: 11. An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine 12. The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula 13. The Leopards in Palestine 14. The Fishes of Palestine 15. The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army 16. The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53892	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Pair of Red Belly Piranhas Died :(

Hi, I have sad news of 2 of my Red Belly Piranha's died in 1 hour. Actually I was moving to other city so I putted my Piranha's into Plastic Bowl with net on top for air. What i did is, I put the water from Aquarium into the Plastic Box & put my Piranha's into it. Piranhas died in one hour. I am quite surpried & upset because of such. Can anyone share his expertise the reason of why such happening. and what was the negligence (if any) in it. Regards, Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53893	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Re: Pair of Red Belly Piranhas Died :(

Faisal, I was on a fish collecting trip in Peru about 6 years ago and several people caught Piranha. Many of them would die overnight despite being in the river water they were caught in and despite having small portable air pumps providing aeration. My best guess is not enough oxygen in the water; perhaps a larger container with a larger air pump for surface agitation to facilitate oxygen exchange in the water. Perhaps we have a fish importer here on the group that can share their knowledge on the best way to transport these fish. When fish are shipped they are packed with pure oxygen in the bag. There are exceptions to that however for fish with labarynth organs or that gulp air. These need a smaller dose of oxygen in the bag. Sorry to hear you lost these fish. I have always wanted to have a tank of them. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 10:55 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Pair of Red Belly Piranhas Died :( Hi, I have sad news of 2 of my Red Belly Piranha's died in 1 hour. Actually I was moving to other city so I putted my Piranha's into Plastic Bowl with net on top for air. What i did is, I put the water from Aquarium into the Plastic Box & put my Piranha's into it. Piranhas died in one hour. I am quite surpried & upset because of such. Can anyone share his expertise the reason of why such happening. and what was the negligence (if any) in it. Regards, Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53894	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 8/14/2012
Subject: Faded Color of Iridescent Shark / Blue Line Shark

Hello Friends, I have seen that out of 6 Iridiscent Sharks / Blue Line Sharks in my 90 Gallon tank, 2 of them is having faded color as compared to others. While remaining sharks have Black / dark blue in color. I am afraid that what could be the reason of such. The fishes are quite active in Tank & swim efficiently. Is there anything that has to worry. Please share your expert opinion. Regards, Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53895	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2012
Subject: Re: Faded Color of Iridescent Shark / Blue Line Shark

Can you tell us how old and how large the sharks are please? There are a few possibilities I can think of that would cause the faded color you mention. 1 of those is maturity. Irridescent sharks lose the black line as they get older and begin to mature. The other potential cause is stress. If these sharks are beginning to mature and are kept in a group that will cause a great deal of stress and eventually they will begin to fight. Irridescent sharks school while they are very young but as they begin to mature they are solitary and leave the safety of the shoal to set off on their own. If kept together for too long they begin to fight for territory. The stress involved in the fighting can cause their color to fade, and the rank of dominance among them can also cause their color to fade. Yet another cause could be water quality. Have you tested your water and can you post the test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH? I hope you are aware that even 1 irridescent shark cannot stay in a 90 gallon tank for real long. These animals grow very large, averaging about 4 ft long each at full grown. This is one species that gets sick and dies quite easily if it's tank is too small, if water quality isn't optimal at all times, or if the stress levels rise quickly, suddenly, or remain a constant problem. I hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > I have seen that out of 6 Iridiscent Sharks / Blue Line Sharks in my 90 > Gallon tank, 2 of them is having faded color as compared to others. While > remaining sharks have Black / dark blue in color. > > I am afraid that what could be the reason of such. The fishes are quite > active in Tank & swim efficiently. > > Is there anything that has to worry. Please share your expert opinion. > > Regards, > Faisal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53896	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/16/2012
Subject: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Hello All, I started a HAM RADIO site 5+ years ago with great success. So, I said the heck and started another YAHOO group dedicated to people into the hobby of aquariums in Illinois. If you are from Illinois please join ILFWAGF@yahoogroups.com group so us locals can get together or chit chat all from the same area. This way locals can talk about what local shops have what or what deals. If your from Illinois please join so the group can grow, and with growth comes friendship!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53897	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually why was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T portion)? In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when you don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53898	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO > have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually why > was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T portion)? > In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when you > don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? > > Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53899	From: n9mxtham@gmail.com	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not married to someone like him that's all I have to say. Thanks for the support Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually why >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T portion)? >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when you >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? >> >> Ray </HTML> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53900	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/17/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Ray is a very experienced fishkeeper with valuable advice for us all and he is doing his job as Moderator to question posts that are not on topic. Say hi to him in the winners circle at lots of fish shows. PS Ray I don’t like to sign my name to posts either you can’t be too careful about spreading your personal information all over the internet. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n9mxtham@... Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:55 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not married to someone like him that's all I have to say. Thanks for the support Sent from my iPhone On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@... <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually why >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T portion)? >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when you >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? >> >> Ray </HTML> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53901	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

It's not something I "like" to do, Al, but something I find necessary to do to keep the members here On Topic. It may occasionally be overlooked if "O/T" where to be put into the Subject Line. At least then everyone would know to expect that not everything in the message was not on topic, but this wasn't even done here. Not quite sure how to take that compliment (?), Jeffrey. Are you saying I'd be that bad to be married to (LOL) ? Thanks for the support, Donna, and your clarifying what my purpose is around here. A few others here don't post either, and at least some have explained to me (even if off-line, when I've emailed them about this) why they don't. Usually, it's understandable, as in your case. It's generally overlooked when long-time members have become known to all, but especially for newcomers (who just don't sign for no specific reason [or they can't be bothered]). it shows a lack of respect and consideration to all other members here. Most of us post out of respect, but a few newbies don't feel they need to? In general, not posting does not promote a friendly atmosphere; if no one posted, then everyone would appear as being more distant in wanting to mainly keep to themselves. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53902	From: Jeffrey	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

If I offended anyone I apologize in advance. My nephew is a very experienced fish keeper also and he's severely autistic. So, when you tell me Ray is very experienced and has valuable advice doesn't mean much in my eyes. All the knowledge he might have goes out the door when it comes from someone who needs to jump on someone else to make himself look good. I guarantee my nephew could teach him a few things on dealing with people in general! Too me my nephew has the real valuable advice. People can always put on an act out in public during shows but can't hide who they really are inside. Now, enough complaining about this topic. Lets talk FISH!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ray is a very experienced fishkeeper with valuable advice for us all and he > is doing his job as Moderator to question posts that are not on topic. > > > > Say hi to him in the winners circle at lots of fish shows. > > > > PS Ray I don't like to sign my name to posts either you can't be too careful > about spreading your personal information all over the internet. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of n9mxtham@... > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:55 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group > > > > > > You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not married > to someone like him that's all I have to say. > > Thanks for the support > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@... > <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , sevenspringss@ wrote: > >> > >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO > > >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually > why > >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T > portion)? > >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when > you > >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? > >> > >> Ray </HTML> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53903	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Hi Everyone, I feel I have to cut in here, while I may not have been quite so blunt as Ray I do find it *extremely* annoying [& perhaps also bad manners?] to not sign your posts & that goes for all the forums & chat rooms that I am a member of. Donna, your email header has your name on it even though you did not sign your post-I find that most 'anonymous' people's names can be worked out from their email headers, screen names or email addresses but anyway-as Jeffrey [who did not sign his post] suggested-"let's talk fish". John*<o)))<* On 18 August 2012 12:20, Jeffrey <n9mxtham@...> wrote: > ** > > > If I offended anyone I apologize in advance. My nephew is a very > experienced fish keeper also and he's severely autistic. So, when you tell > me Ray is very experienced and has valuable advice doesn't mean much in my > eyes. All the knowledge he might have goes out the door when it comes from > someone who needs to jump on someone else to make himself look good. I > guarantee my nephew could teach him a few things on dealing with people in > general! Too me my nephew has the real valuable advice. People can always > put on an act out in public during shows but can't hide who they really are > inside. > > Now, enough complaining about this topic. Lets talk FISH!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Ray is a very experienced fishkeeper with valuable advice for us all and > he > > is doing his job as Moderator to question posts that are not on topic. > > > > > > > > Say hi to him in the winners circle at lots of fish shows. > > > > > > > > PS Ray I don't like to sign my name to posts either�you can't be too > careful > > about spreading your personal information all over the internet. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of n9mxtham@... > > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group > > > > > > > > > > > > You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not > married > > to someone like him that's all I have to say. > > > > Thanks for the support > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@... > > > <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , sevenspringss@ wrote: > > >> > > >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM > RADIO > > > > >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and > actually > > why > > >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T > > portion)? > > >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when > > you > > >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? > > >> > > >> Ray </HTML> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , > .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53904	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/18/2012
Subject: School is in session.

My new school of 17 rummynose tetras are out of quarantine, and happily hanging out in the big house... after being in the "big house" so to speak. :-)>>> They're quite a nice bunch to look at. They really like each others company, and swim in formation often, like some ocean fish or flocks of birds all turning together.. oops I said birds... sorry...:-(>>> lol.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53905	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Newbie needs help!

Hi all! I have had Betta fish in oh bowls for a year or more. Thought I'd exPand so I got a 5 gal tank. I put Buddy my blue Betta in. He seemed fine. So I immediately bought a Plecostomus , 5 neon tetras and 2 small puffy belly fish. Sorry I can't remember what they were. That was 2 days ago. All died excePt for 1 tetra, the Pleco and Buddy who now has a white patch on his side. The heater is set at 75. After doing some research I see I was supposed to cycle the tank for a while. I did not so I'm sure thAt was a factor. So can you help me save what I have left? Thankfully I only put one Betta in. The other is happily living in his jar!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53906	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Although you definitely need to cycle a new tank, the lack of a cycle would not kill your fish in 2 days. Who is Buddy? I am not a betta keeper, but I think you had too many fish in the tank. Perhaps the betta alone, or one puffer alone or the 5 tetras in a 5G? To cycle your tank, pick up pure ammonia (no surfectants or perfumes) and a freshwater test kit. Allow six weeks. Put the remaining fish in another, cycled tank for that period. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sewlittletime Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 7:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Newbie needs help! Hi all! I have had Betta fish in oh bowls for a year or more. Thought I'd exPand so I got a 5 gal tank. I put Buddy my blue Betta in. He seemed fine. So I immediately bought a Plecostomus , 5 neon tetras and 2 small puffy belly fish. Sorry I can't remember what they were. That was 2 days ago. All died excePt for 1 tetra, the Pleco and Buddy who now has a white patch on his side. The heater is set at 75. After doing some research I see I was supposed to cycle the tank for a while. I did not so I'm sure thAt was a factor. So can you help me save what I have left? Thankfully I only put one Betta in. The other is happily living in his jar! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53907	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi Bonnie, Yes. you should be thankful for not putting the second Betta ("Buddy") in the same tank as the first one -- as one would have killed the other, and/or, both would have been in very rough shape. You cannot put two Bettas in the same tank, They are also called "Siamese Fighting Fish," for good reason. They are very pugnacious towards conspecifics, and especially males towards other males,. but females of this same species can often be very aggressive too. Sorry to hear that your first Betta died though, although it's unlikely (under normal circumstances) the lack of establishing a nitrogen cycle would have killed any fish in just two days. However, this would depend on the bioload and yours did exceed to tank's 5 gallon capacity -- not taking the unknown size of the Pleco into account. To start with, Plecos don't belong in a 5 gallon tank, even the smaller Bristle-Nose or Ancistrus species, as the minimum size of even the smaller ones is about 6" when full grown; the larger Plecos can exceed 18". If yours was even 1/3 the size of the smaller species, you had too many fish in the tank which would build up ammonia faster than normal in an uncycled tank. As you don't seem to know yet, which fish are compatible, I'd advise getting a good aquarium book (which should also include proper aquarium maintenance and the nitrogen cycle). Most Puffers, even the smaller Pea Puffers, are usually quite aggressive towards other fishes -- not to mention that many require brackish water. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53908	From: joe t	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

PEACE, EVERYONE! Come on folks. This is becoming a verbal-jitsu match, and this is not the WWWF! Please keep in mind that we are expressing ourselves in writing and, unless you are an experienced writer, things are not always read in the context in which they were meant. I am sure Ray was not trying to "look good". He is a moderator. He is trying to keep things in order and not stray too far off course. This is hard to do. You are always going to, maybe, hurt someone's feelings. Especially when you have to write what you want to express. I am sure if Ray and Jeffrey were speaking to each other, they would probably be more understanding of what each of the intentions were. Ray is a wealth of knowledge as far as I am concerned. And if Jeffrey could answer any fish problems we may have by consulting with his nephew that would be very welcomed, also. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" <n9mxtham@...> wrote: > > If I offended anyone I apologize in advance. My nephew is a very experienced fish keeper also and he's severely autistic. So, when you tell me Ray is very experienced and has valuable advice doesn't mean much in my eyes. All the knowledge he might have goes out the door when it comes from someone who needs to jump on someone else to make himself look good. I guarantee my nephew could teach him a few things on dealing with people in general! Too me my nephew has the real valuable advice. People can always put on an act out in public during shows but can't hide who they really are inside. > > Now, enough complaining about this topic. Lets talk FISH!! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Ray is a very experienced fishkeeper with valuable advice for us all and he > > is doing his job as Moderator to question posts that are not on topic. > > > > > > > > Say hi to him in the winners circle at lots of fish shows. > > > > > > > > PS Ray I don't like to sign my name to posts either you can't be too careful > > about spreading your personal information all over the internet. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of n9mxtham@ > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:55 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group > > > > > > > > > > > > You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not married > > to someone like him that's all I have to say. > > > > Thanks for the support > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@ > > <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , sevenspringss@ wrote: > > >> > > >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO > > > > >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually > > why > > >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T > > portion)? > > >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when > > you > > >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? > > >> > > >> Ray </HTML> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53909	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Thanks so much for the info! No Buddy the Betta is still alive although he now has a white patch on his side and around his eyes and mouth. The "puffers" were Molleys with round bellys but they are gone...the Pleco is about 1 1/2" long and they said he wouldn't grow beyond 4". He is ok so far. And I have one neon yet. So that's 3 in a 5gal tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53910	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Having had more time to reflect on this whole thing. I agree that there is a lot of Knowledge available in this group; and I am thankfull for it; it's quite convient to get info that way. Keep in mind though people, that all that info is available elsewhere. This medium I think, should be for social interaction also. Most people are here because the people in their "real lives" aren't into fish; at least not into discussing them... lol.. I probbably bend my wife's ears more, concerning fish than she would desire...lol Where was I.. oh ya; lets just be friends, and not bite ears off when people get off topic for one sentence. Thus ends my rant my friends. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > PEACE, EVERYONE! > Come on folks. This is becoming a verbal-jitsu match, and this is not the WWWF! > > Please keep in mind that we are expressing ourselves in writing and, unless you are an experienced writer, things are not always read in the context in which they were meant. > > I am sure Ray was not trying to "look good". He is a moderator. He is trying to keep things in order and not stray too far off course. This is hard to do. You are always going to, maybe, hurt someone's feelings. Especially when you have to write what you want to express. > > I am sure if Ray and Jeffrey were speaking to each other, they would probably be more understanding of what each of the intentions were. > > Ray is a wealth of knowledge as far as I am concerned. And if Jeffrey could answer any fish problems we may have by consulting with his nephew that would be very welcomed, also. > > joe t > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" <n9mxtham@> wrote: > > > > If I offended anyone I apologize in advance. My nephew is a very experienced fish keeper also and he's severely autistic. So, when you tell me Ray is very experienced and has valuable advice doesn't mean much in my eyes. All the knowledge he might have goes out the door when it comes from someone who needs to jump on someone else to make himself look good. I guarantee my nephew could teach him a few things on dealing with people in general! Too me my nephew has the real valuable advice. People can always put on an act out in public during shows but can't hide who they really are inside. > > > > Now, enough complaining about this topic. Lets talk FISH!! > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray is a very experienced fishkeeper with valuable advice for us all and he > > > is doing his job as Moderator to question posts that are not on topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Say hi to him in the winners circle at lots of fish shows. > > > > > > > > > > > > PS Ray I don't like to sign my name to posts either you can't be too careful > > > about spreading your personal information all over the internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of n9mxtham@ > > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:55 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have people like Ray every where you go! Just be happy your not married > > > to someone like him that's all I have to say. > > > > > > Thanks for the support > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:25 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@ > > > <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > you sure like to bitch, don't you ray. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Why should we be concerned about your HAM RADIO site? What does HAM RADIO > > > > > > >> have to do with tropical fish or aquatic life of any kind (and actually > > > why > > > >> was it approved without it having been edited to remove this O/T > > > portion)? > > > >> In reality, why should we be concerned about this message at all, when > > > you > > > >> don't even have the courtesy of signing your post? > > > >> > > > >> Ray </HTML> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > > > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > > home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53911	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

I think you just want the betta. For a 4” pleco, you would want a 36” long tank. The betta is likely to kill the neon. Get a test kit and see if you have ammonia or nitrite (toxins) so you can figure out what is wrong with Buddy. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sewlittletime Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 1:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help! Thanks so much for the info! No Buddy the Betta is still alive although he now has a white patch on his side and around his eyes and mouth. The "puffers" were Molleys with round bellys but they are gone...the Pleco is about 1 1/2" long and they said he wouldn't grow beyond 4". He is ok so far. And I have one neon yet. So that's 3 in a 5gal tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53912	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/19/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi Bonnie, Very sorry to hear of your losses which is, unfortunately, all too common in this hobby but through no fault of yours. The problem is little or no information out there & what info there is both online & instore may be misleading or contradictory. It sounds as if you have overloaded the uncycled system with too many fish that are all making waste & so therefore polluting the limited space you have available. Can you tell us what your maintenance regime was when you just had Buddy in his bowl & how long have you had him in the bowl? As Donna suggested you really need to give us your water stats before we can make an informed guess about your tank. The best kit to use is the API Master Test Kit, failing that any liquid test kit such as Nutrafin, Tetra etc but try not to use the strips. The strips are cheaper but quite inaccurate & just now we need to know exact values as far as possible. Let us know your readings for nitrate, nitrite, ammonia & high range pH. Also could you let us know the high range pH of your freshly drawn tap water please. You say your heater is set to 75, is that the same temperature that Buddy's bowl was set to? While we are waiting to hear about your results I would suggest you change approximately one third of your tank water daily using same temperature, treated water. You didn't say if you had a filter in your tank-if not then you need to get one, a filter is an essential life support system for your fish. I won't attempt to give you any advice regarding Buddy's white patch because I am not familiar with Bettas. John*<o)))<* On 19 August 2012 21:47, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I think you just want the betta. For a 4� pleco, you would want a 36� long > tank. The betta is likely to kill the neon. > > Get a test kit and see if you have ammonia or nitrite (toxins) so you can > figure out what is wrong with Buddy. > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Sewlittletime > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 1:41 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help! > > > Thanks so much for the info! No Buddy the Betta is still alive although he > now has a white patch on his side and around his eyes and mouth. The > "puffers" were Molleys with round bellys but they are gone...the Pleco is > about 1 1/2" long and they said he wouldn't grow beyond 4". He is ok so > far. > And I have one neon yet. So that's 3 in a 5gal tank. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender<djransome@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A%20Newbie%20needs%20help%21>| Reply > to group<AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BAquaticLife%5D%20Re%3A%20Newbie%20needs%20help%21>| Reply > via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxczNjNWw5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzOTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM0NTQwOTI1OA--?act=reply&messageNum=53911>| Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbm50OXE1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM0NTQwOTI1OA--> > Messages in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/53905;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NXJpazVmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzUzOTExBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM0NTQwOTI1OAR0cGNJZAM1MzkwNQ-->( > 5) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcThqcTlmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNDU0MDkyNTg-?o=6> > 3 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNWJyZDlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM0NTQwOTI1OA--> > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53913	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Thanks for your info. Found Buddy dead this am. Other two still ok. Going to pet store to get a water test kit and book! I was thinking......I got the fish at Pet Smart. The girl who sold me the fish said it was a new shipment....they had just come in an hour before... Maybe they were sick?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53914	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi there. Sorry about your pets. My two cents, would be to advise you to promise yourself to not set up another tank, until you have taken some time to read up on fish keeping; say a few weeks, or whatever. This is a complicated hobby; but there is a lot of info out there. I'm thankful to have read about the subject for a few months before getting my tank. This group can be a fountain of facts. If you keep to the basics of the hobby that most people agree on, concerning quality water, and stocking, you'll do ok. I still have three of the first fish that I bought for my first tank; bought at x-mas 2010, three and four weeks after it was set up. I've found this to be an enjoyable hobby. Stick with it and learn.. read, read, read; and keep with a regular maintenance schedule. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sewlittletime" <bonnietalcott@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your info. Found Buddy dead this am. Other two still ok. Going to pet store to get a water test kit and book! I was thinking......I got the fish at Pet Smart. The girl who sold me the fish said it was a new shipment....they had just come in an hour before... Maybe they were sick? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53915	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

why did my frogfish die? stress? food? water circulation? ------------------------------ On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 12:42 PM PDT Al Keep wrote: >Hi there. Sorry about your pets. >My two cents, would be to advise you to promise yourself to not set up another tank, until you have taken some time to read up on fish keeping; say a few weeks, or whatever. This is a complicated hobby; but there is a lot of info out there. I'm thankful to have read about the subject for a few months before getting my tank. This group can be a fountain of facts. If you keep to the basics of the hobby that most people agree on, concerning quality water, and stocking, you'll do ok. I still have three of the first fish that I bought for my first tank; bought at x-mas 2010, three and four weeks after it was set up. >I've found this to be an enjoyable hobby. Stick with it and learn.. read, read, read; and keep with a regular maintenance schedule. >:-)>>> > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sewlittletime" <bonnietalcott@...> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your info. Found Buddy dead this am. Other two still ok. Going to pet store to get a water test kit and book! I was thinking......I got the fish at Pet Smart. The girl who sold me the fish said it was a new shipment....they had just come in an hour before... Maybe they were sick? >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53916	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Importance of basics......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!

I agree with Al. I've been a moderator here for quite a few years. Over the years, a lot of the problems I've seen could have been eliminated or never started in the first place, with just some common sence and adhereance to some basic principals. Of course we all know the problem with common sense is it's not very common. Weekly partial water changes is a big one. Especially since new fish keepers have a tendency to put way too many fish in their tanks. It helps but it's not a solution. Here are some suggestions but certainly not all that is needed....... Allow your tank to cycle. I'm sure I'll get mail on this....It is totally ridiculous to wait 6 to 8 weeks for a tank to cycle. There are better ways. Let's move into the 21st century,O.K.?. l A 10 gallon tank is 20 inches long. The common Pleco can reach 12 to 14 inches. Would you like to live in a dog box?. Research your fish and plants before you buy them. That's before.... not when you finally realize your interesting gar fish will reach 4 feet and you will have to feed it the neighbors dogs and cats. Or all the money you spent on live plants has resulted in a beautiful home made swamp because you plants are "melting" because you don't have the lighting for the plants you bought. Test your water on a regular basis. Don't over feed you fish. Excess fish food becomes algae food. Husband get's up and feeds the fish. Wife passes the tank and figures he forgot. Kids think the fish look hungry. Sound familiar?. Your pet store has a chemical to fix everything you forgot to do. Go easy with the chemicals. Adverse interaction is not always stated. Mixing chemicals can kill fish. It can also make it difficult to figure out what is going on with your water. This group is a valuable resource. Go to the group site, click on messages, type your issue in the search box. Viole !!!!! In most cases over 5000 posts. Or....just ask your question here. I'll try to help you whether you sign your posts or not???????. Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!   Hi there. Sorry about your pets. My two cents, would be to advise you to promise yourself to not set up another tank, until you have taken some time to read up on fish keeping; say a few weeks, or whatever. This is a complicated hobby; but there is a lot of info out there. I'm thankful to have read about the subject for a few months before getting my tank. This group can be a fountain of facts. If you keep to the basics of the hobby that most people agree on, concerning quality water, and stocking, you'll do ok. I still have three of the first fish that I bought for my first tank; bought at x-mas 2010, three and four weeks after it was set up. I've found this to be an enjoyable hobby. Stick with it and learn.. read, read, read; and keep with a regular maintenance schedule. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sewlittletime" <bonnietalcott@...> wrote: > > Thanks for your info. Found Buddy dead this am. Other two still ok. Going to pet store to get a water test kit and book! I was thinking......I got the fish at Pet Smart. The girl who sold me the fish said it was a new shipment....they had just come in an hour before... Maybe they were sick? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53917	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Well today the neon and the Pleco seem fine. Went to a different pet store and bought 2 books and a water test kit. Findings are: PH 7.6 High PH 8.2 Ammonia 2.0 Nitrate 2. 0 Nitrate 3. 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53918	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi Bonnie, The temperature is also one of the water's parameters. What is the temperature of your tank? I know you said you set the heater on 75 o, but this does not necessarily mean that this is what the water temperature (you do have an aquarium thermometer in the tank, I hope -- don't you?). I'll guess at the temperature being 75 o for now. At 75 o, and at pH 7.6, your 2.0 ppm Total Ammonia reading results in a Free Ammonia level not only toxic to most fish, it's lethal -- actually 1 1/2 times the amount considered to be lethal. I know the numbers I will be giving don't mean very much to you yet at this time, but a Free-Ammonia level of 0.020 ppm is toxic and a level of 0.030 ppm is lethal. Your reading, along with a 75 o temperature tells me your Free-Ammonia level is 0.041 ppm. It's the Free-Ammonia level that's the indicator of how toxic the environment is -- which increases on toxicity with the temperature and the pH. There's no aquarium test kit for Free-Ammonia, but the Total-Ammonia level tested for tells me exactly what the Free-Ammonia level is with your parameters. I would advise you to start making some PWC's (partial water changes) ASAP. It's surprising that you have any live fish, if the readings you're giving us are anywhere near accurate. This ammonia is the result of having too large of a fish load in the tank. I know you said you only had three fish in the tank (after the rest died), but it was the original number of fish, and their sizes, you had that resulted in too much waste when considering the tank wasn't yet cycled. I am very sorry that you had such a fish loss. Sorry about thhe loss of Buddy too. I know you wouldn't have put him in the 5 gallon tank where all the other fishes were dying, but your description of him indicated he had some type of bodily infection -- either a bacterial issue, or a fungal issue, but he was gone before I had the chance to ask you to describe the malady further (whether the white coatings appeared "cottony," or "smooth"). He could have been sick right from the store, but the odds are that if his water was also high in ammonia, that this would have been enough stress toimake him ill. You need to remove as much ammonia as you can by taking it out with the water, but instead of making a 95% PWC (which I might advise for someone more experienced), I'd advise you to make several 30 to 40% PWC's -- being sure to match the temperature of the tank, and adding a water conditioner to the new water you're putting in. Spread these PWC's out to about one PWC per hour, leaving an hour in between PWC's. After doing three PWC's, test the water for ammonia again. I'm fairly sure you'll need to make at least four 30% PWC's to get the ammonia level far enough below the toxicity level to make things safe for the fishes again. This fourth PWC can be at 40%; give us the ammonia reading after this PWC. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53919	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Un-cycled tank.......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!

So, this is an un-cycled tank. You need to get the Nitrites and Ammonia down quickly. Professionals and myself use Dr. Tim's One and Only to cycle within 24 hours. I've never had a problem. Also there is Nutrafin Cycle and Seachem's Stability. I use Dr. Tim's first before fish. Test the water in 12 hours. Two things.......90% of the folks who say it doesn't work didn't shake the bottle. I.E. follow instructions. Secondly the fish need to be added in 12 to 24 hours or the bacteria will die. Then after fish are added I continue testing every day for about 5 days to be sure the cycle is established. You'll know when Ammonia and Nitrites are at 0. Folks are using these products with fish in the tank. That's your decision. With your Ammonia and Nitrite levels I would try it. Nutrafin  is cheaper. Other chemicals neutralize the toxins instead of jump starting the cycle. Harry  ________________________________ From: Sewlittletime <bonnietalcott@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help!   Well today the neon and the Pleco seem fine. Went to a different pet store and bought 2 books and a water test kit. Findings are: PH 7.6 High PH 8.2 Ammonia 2.0 Nitrate 2. 0 Nitrate 3. 0 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53920	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Bonnie, Just wanted to add, that your Nitrite is extremely high too, and Nitrite can be even more toxic than Ammonia. With your PWC's, you'll be removing this contaminent also. Know too, that Nitrite becomes more toxic as the pH drops. For now, even though it's extremely high for the well-being of the fishes, it's the Ammonia that you need to worry about as that's more toxic in the higher pH ranges. No need to be concerned with the Nitrite, as it's generally recommended that this can be as high as 40 ppm and still be safe -- even though we recommend trying to keep it as low as possible. Again, the PWC's will also help in removing a lot of that. After getting the Ammonia level down to a safe range (Zero is always recommended, but not always doable in this situation), you'll need to recheck this level tomorrow and each day afterwards, and make additional PWC's accordingly until the nitrogen cycle gets established. Note -- your water will not be toxic at your pH and temperature if you can get the Total-Ammonia level down to 0.50 ppm, although I wouldn't stop making PWC's there, when another PWC will bring it down much further. Best of luck and keep us informed. As you're not yet familiar with proper aquarium maintenance, and/or, the compatability of different fishes, a good book is the way to go -- although we'll guide you through everything. I just don't want to see you have to learn the hard way though, with making mistakes. I think I saw you say you picked up two books -- YAY! A good one is the Baensch Altas, Volume 1; it's out of print, but can often be located on eBay or Aqua-Bid. BTW, most of the smaller Plecos reach at least 5" to 6". The one you have may be the "Starlight" Pleco, which does average around 4" -- BUT, can still reach 5" at times (the females get larger than the males). Even a 4" Pleco would really be too large for a 5 gallon tank, as not only do we need to consider the length when approximating it's bioload on the tank, but also it's girth. The longer the fish gets, the more body mass it has (it's wider and higher). Best regards, Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53921	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Do not add any more fish until you get the nitrogen cycle established. The Dr Tims "One and Only" product is about the best live nitrifying bacteria culture one can buy. Not all lfs's (local fish stores) carry it, but it's worth looking for. Many of us turn to one of the very reputable on-line fish stores, such as Drs Foster & Smith to get products we can't get elsewhere, and they carry this. As there are three different formulas of this, you need to ask for the Fresh Water type.. After you add this, the very next day, you can add the rest of the fish you planned to get for this tank, but as the Pleco will eventually grow too large, you might trade him back in now for a couple of small variety Cory catfish. If you're unsure of anything, just ask here first before getting yourself into trouble. There's a rough guide you can use for determining how many fish your 5 gallon tank will safely maintain, which is fairly reliable for slenderer fishes up to (only) 3" in length -- and that is, 1" of fish per gallon. (and this is dependent on their eventual full size). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53922	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/20/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Ouch! The ammonia and/or the nitrite killed your fish. The good news is if you cycle the tank, those problems go away. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sewlittletime Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help! Well today the neon and the Pleco seem fine. Went to a different pet store and bought 2 books and a water test kit. Findings are: PH 7.6 High PH 8.2 Ammonia 2.0 Nitrate 2. 0 Nitrate 3. 0 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53923	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: O/T - New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Hi Group, With this very contested "debate" by a few of our members now having died down and ended -- and my not entering into the fray by posting to you supporters of Jeffrey/n9mxtham, I'd like to now fill you in on the rest of the story, although this is not to prolong this O/T subject. After my posting to Jeffrey (who was the ex-member who started this flap), and after reading posts both in support of me (thank you, guys) and those posts opposing my position, you supporters of Jeffrey may like to know that I had researched his profile and found him to be an affiliate of the JSmith Domain -- our most constant and worst disrupter and spammer on this and other aquarium-related Yahoo groups. The JSmith Domain enlists people such as Jeffrey to infiltrate our Yahoogroups (he joined just about a month ago), and cause problems such as disruptive messages which only get worse when allowed to continue, or just plain outright spam -- when we don't immediately catch where these members come from. He submitted his exact same message for approval of posting to another aquarium Yahoogroup I also moderate, although I saw it only after one of the other moderators there attended to it. With all moderators being CC'd in on that moderator's reply to Jeffrey at that time, and before proceeding to post his message -- which was never approved -- that moderator asked Jeffrey to rephrase some of his message so that it wouldn't be Off-Topic. Jeffrey never did resubmit his message in a reworded manner, which appears that he knew he was out of line. I did not have the opportunity to reject Jeffrey's message when it was first submitted here as another moderator here had already approved it. Perhaps that moderator may have questioned his message as well, when it first came in for approval, or at the least, checked into his profile background, but then none of us moderators are perfect (but we all try). I probably should have checked his profile sooner, myself. Suffice it to say, being an affiliate of our worst spammer -- who most of you aren't aware of, that we're constantly intercepting and deleting spam and disruptive messages generated by the JSmith Domain behind the scenes before it's posted and reaches you -- this member has summarily been banned. Likewise, I note he has also been banned on the other Yahoogroup I mentioned, so this should tell you something. Our moderating job isn't always easy, but it keeps the spam off this List. By now, I've learned to "smell" these people out, which is why I felt the need to confront him -- not yet checking into his profile at that time. Hope all remains peaceful here for a while; have a great fishy day. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53924	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: O/T - New Illinois Aquarium Yahoo Group

Excellent work Ray! Have a great day yourself Sir, John*<o)))< * On 21 August 2012 13:06, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Group, > > With this very contested "debate" by a few of our members now having died > down and ended -- and my not entering into the fray by posting to you > supporters of Jeffrey/n9mxtham, I'd like to now fill you in on the rest of > the > story, although this is not to prolong this O/T subject. > > After my posting to Jeffrey (who was the ex-member who started this flap), > and after reading posts both in support of me (thank you, guys) and those > posts opposing my position, you supporters of Jeffrey may like to know > that I > had researched his profile and found him to be an affiliate of the JSmith > Domain -- our most constant and worst disrupter and spammer on this and > other > aquarium-related Yahoo groups. The JSmith Domain enlists people such as > Jeffrey to infiltrate our Yahoogroups (he joined just about a month ago), > and > cause problems such as disruptive messages which only get worse when > allowed > to continue, or just plain outright spam -- when we don't immediately > catch > where these members come from. > > He submitted his exact same message for approval of posting to another > aquarium Yahoogroup I also moderate, although I saw it only after one of > the > other moderators there attended to it. With all moderators being CC'd in > on > that moderator's reply to Jeffrey at that time, and before proceeding to > post > his message -- which was never approved -- that moderator asked Jeffrey to > rephrase some of his message so that it wouldn't be Off-Topic. Jeffrey > never > did resubmit his message in a reworded manner, which appears that he knew > he was out of line. > > I did not have the opportunity to reject Jeffrey's message when it was > first submitted here as another moderator here had already approved it. > Perhaps > that moderator may have questioned his message as well, when it first came > in for approval, or at the least, checked into his profile background, but > then none of us moderators are perfect (but we all try). I probably should > have checked his profile sooner, myself. > > Suffice it to say, being an affiliate of our worst spammer -- who most of > you aren't aware of, that we're constantly intercepting and deleting spam > and > disruptive messages generated by the JSmith Domain behind the scenes > before > it's posted and reaches you -- this member has summarily been banned. > Likewise, I note he has also been banned on the other Yahoogroup I > mentioned, so > this should tell you something. Our moderating job isn't always easy, but > it keeps the spam off this List. > > By now, I've learned to "smell" these people out, which is why I felt the > need to confront him -- not yet checking into his profile at that time. > Hope > all remains peaceful here for a while; have a great fishy day. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53925	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Update: Pleco and Neon still fine. Did several PWC and here ate the new numbers: PH 7.6 High PH 7.4 Ammonia .50 ppm. :) Nitrite no 2. 0 ppm Nitrite no 3. 0 ppm Temp is 79.3 even though I turned it down a couple of hours ago.....:/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53926	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Bonnie, Thanks for the update. Your 0.50 ppm Total Ammonia is still safe from being toxic to your remaining fishes even though your temperature is over 79 o. This results in a Free-Ammonia level of 0.012 ppm at pH 7.6, a good distance yet away from the 0.020 ppm level of Free-Ammonia that is toxic to most fishes. Still, while this number is not toxic to your fishes, I must tell you that any amount of Ammonia causes stress to fish and it's always best to have zero ppm Ammonia. Try doing another PWC to at least get the Ammonia level down further -- hopefully at or near zero. BTW, you don't need to use the high pH test kit. This is mainly for hobbyists keeping Lake Malawi Cichlids and especially Lake Tanganyika Cichlids which ideally like to be kept at pH 9.2 or there abouts. As your Nitrite didn't drop any, even with making PWC's. this tells me either of two things -- (1) that your test results are faulty, possibly from not doing the procedure correctly or maybe reading the results wrong, or (2) you have Nitrite in your tap water. I'd suggest you test your tap water's parameters, for pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. I noticed you wrote down the reading for Nitrite twice this time -- the second time having it at 3.0 ppm. I'm sure you must have meant Nitrate for this latter reading. That's about it this time. Do you have any idea of what other fishes you plan to add to this tank when it's ready to accept more? Did you have any luck in locating Dr. Tim's One and Only? Have you given any thought to getting a larger tank? I'm asking this last question, not to have you go bigger in the hobby suddenly, but a larger tank is more stable than a smaller tank and much easier to maintain the parameters at a steady level -- provided you don't overstock the tank. One last thing for right now; an overstocked tank may not necessarily have very elevated ammonia levels once it's cycled, but such a tank can be more apt to decrease in pH (dependent upon the temporary hardness). I don't want to get you too deep into water chemistry right yet, but what this means in short, is that if this ever happens and your Nitrite level is still at 2.0 ppm, it can be disasterous as this compound can be so much more toxic than Ammonia when the pH drops. Below pH 6.6 it turns into diluted nitrous acid. If your Master Test kit does not have a KH test (for "Temporary" or "Carbonate": Hardness), it would be a good idea to get one as it's always beneficial to know how much buffering capacity your water has -- and this is the test for it. Not essential at this time, but something you should eventually have, to get a better idea of what to expect in your water's behavior. Later, Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53927	From: Sewlittletime	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

No no the bottles say Nitrite (NO2-) and Nitrate (NO3-) Both are 0

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53928	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Bonnie, Okay, I'm glad to see they're both at Zero. Yesterday, you wrote: Nitrate -- 2.0 Nitrate -- 3.0 and today you wrote: Nitrite -- 2.0 Nitrite -- 3.0 Just as I re-wrote it here. If you're not sure of this, just go back and check what you wrote. I know what you mean -- except for the Nitrite and Nitrate now being 0.0 ppm -- which was welcome news to me. I figured they had to come down with all the water changing, but you wrote a level for them (2.0 and 3.0, respectively) earlier. today. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53929	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/21/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi Ray, The only reason I suggested using the high range pH test was because the regular pH test in the API Master Test Kit only goes up to 7.6 so any higher reading would only return the maximum amount for the test at 7.6. The high range goes up to over 9 & as my own tank water is 7.8 [& has been since I started keeping fish] then I just thought it advisable to recommend that one. John*<o)))<* On 22 August 2012 02:23, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Bonnie, > > Okay, I'm glad to see they're both at Zero. > > Yesterday, you wrote: > Nitrate -- 2.0 > Nitrate -- 3.0 > > and today you wrote: > Nitrite -- 2.0 > Nitrite -- 3.0 > > Just as I re-wrote it here. If you're not sure of this, just go back and > check what you wrote. I know what you mean -- except for the Nitrite and > Nitrate now being 0.0 ppm -- which was welcome news to me. I figured they > had > to come down with all the water changing, but you wrote a level for them > (2.0 and 3.0, respectively) earlier. today. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53930	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

Hi John, Good catch! Many pH test kits are different. The API kit (normal range) only tests from pH 6.2 to pH 7.6, as you said. The Tetra pH kit tests from pH 5.0 to pH 10.00 and the normal pH range Red sea fish pHarmaceuticals ltd. tests from pH 6.2 to pH 7.4. Their high range kit then tests from pH 7.4 to pH 8.6. The Bromythol Blue reagent I use test from pH 6.0 (actually, one can determine pH 5.8 but there's no color match on the chart), to pH 7.8 (again, no color match on the chart for this value), and I'm used to using this type of kit -- for over 6 decades. The API Master Kit is excellent and their pH test kit is much easier to read than Tetra's -- and is why it's recommended. To be assured that a pH is no higher than 7.6 using this kit, it would be prudent to also use the high range kit as you suggested. Fortunately, I notice that Bonnie's high range pH tests out at pH 7.4 (while her normal range pH tests out at pH 7.6). It's not all unusual to come up with slightly different results when using both pH range kits, for any of the manufacturers supplying both. We've often seen these varying results reported here in the past, although I have no clue why this occurs. When considering the consequences of ammonia presence though, it's always best to go with the highest pH reading obtained, to understand how toxic it may be even if it really isn't -- in efforts to address such an issue. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53931	From: Noura	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Fish Abortion??!

Hello, I bought a female Molly 5 days ago, and 30 minutes after reaching home, while she was still in the bag floating in the tank for acclimation , she dropped about 20 small transparent yellow pellets. Is it possible that she was in the early stages of pregnancy and that the stress of transportation from the fish store to my house caused her an abortion? If not, then what were these pellets? In case you were wondering, she's fine now 5 days later, swimming and eating normally. Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53932	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie needs help!

What I found was the low range pH gave me the max reading. And my high range pH test gave me a reading higher than the max. I just assumed this made sense and I needed to use the high range test. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:12 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Newbie needs help! Hi John, Good catch! Many pH test kits are different. The API kit (normal range) only tests from pH 6.2 to pH 7.6, as you said. The Tetra pH kit tests from pH 5.0 to pH 10.00 and the normal pH range Red sea fish pHarmaceuticals ltd. tests from pH 6.2 to pH 7.4. Their high range kit then tests from pH 7.4 to pH 8.6. The Bromythol Blue reagent I use test from pH 6.0 (actually, one can determine pH 5.8 but there's no color match on the chart), to pH 7.8 (again, no color match on the chart for this value), and I'm used to using this type of kit -- for over 6 decades. The API Master Kit is excellent and their pH test kit is much easier to read than Tetra's -- and is why it's recommended. To be assured that a pH is no higher than 7.6 using this kit, it would be prudent to also use the high range kit as you suggested. Fortunately, I notice that Bonnie's high range pH tests out at pH 7.4 (while her normal range pH tests out at pH 7.6). It's not all unusual to come up with slightly different results when using both pH range kits, for any of the manufacturers supplying both. We've often seen these varying results reported here in the past, although I have no clue why this occurs. When considering the consequences of ammonia presence though, it's always best to go with the highest pH reading obtained, to understand how toxic it may be even if it really isn't -- in efforts to address such an issue. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53933	From: Hallie Ness	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

thats weird? ive never heard of that? ------------------------------ On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:00 PM PDT Noura wrote: >Hello, >I bought a female Molly 5 days ago, and 30 minutes after reaching home, while she was still in the bag floating in the tank for acclimation , she dropped about 20 small transparent yellow pellets. Is it possible that she was in the early stages of pregnancy and that the stress of transportation from the fish store to my house caused her an abortion? If not, then what were these pellets? >In case you were wondering, she's fine now 5 days later, swimming and eating normally. > >Noura > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53934	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

Hi Noura, Maybe these were just regular Molly eggs? John*<o)))< * On 22 August 2012 22:00, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, > I bought a female Molly 5 days ago, and 30 minutes after reaching home, > while she was still in the bag floating in the tank for acclimation , she > dropped about 20 small transparent yellow pellets. Is it possible that she > was in the early stages of pregnancy and that the stress of transportation > from the fish store to my house caused her an abortion? If not, then what > were these pellets? > In case you were wondering, she's fine now 5 days later, swimming and > eating normally. > > Noura > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53935	From: Dawn Moneyhan	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

Without being able to see these "pellets" there is no way to say for sure what they are, however, it is possible.  Not only the stress of the move, but how she was netted and put into the bag... any pregnant live bearer fish, when coming into direct contact with the air during a move from one location to another, can trigger premature labor.  This is why, whenever I purchase female live bearers and WANT the fry, I tell the store staff to make sure they are not lifting the fish out of the water when they bag it.  That one simple step can prevent premature labor even in spite of the stress of moving the fish to a new location. John, if you're suggesting that a molly "laid eggs" in the bag you should know that mollys are not egg layers.  Their eggs are fertilized within the body and they give birth to live fry, thus the term "live bearers".  It is not normal for a live bearing fish to express eggs for no reason.  Any female live bearing fish that is full of unfertilized eggs for any length of time typically reabsorbs the eggs and then the body produces more when ovulation occurs. Dawn Dawn Moneyhan Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist To learn more about me go to http://www.helium.com/users/449334 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53936	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

Many times a livebearer like Guppies, Swords and Mollies will drop a few undeveloped eggs along with the many live clutch of fry. These are just undeveloped eggs and for some unknown reason were just not as far along as the rest of the clutch. Very often a Livebearer like these domesticated crosses will, under stress, release their clutch before their time and the eggs are simply not completely developed. If the "pellets" had eyes looking back at you and a tail curled around the inside the egg - the stress and nearness of the term of the development caused her to drop the clutch. Very often such a thing will kill the mother. You and she are lucky. Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53937	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/23/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

Thanks Dawn, Of course-the clue was in the type of fish: "Live Bearer" I should have realised it wasn't regular! John*<o)))<* On 23 August 2012 21:13, Dawn Moneyhan <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: > ** > > > Without being able to see these "pellets" there is no way to say for sure > what they are, however, it is possible. Not only the stress of the move, > but how she was netted and put into the bag... any pregnant live bearer > fish, when coming into direct contact with the air during a move from one > location to another, can trigger premature labor. This is why, whenever I > purchase female live bearers and WANT the fry, I tell the store staff to > make sure they are not lifting the fish out of the water when they bag it. > That one simple step can prevent premature labor even in spite of the > stress of moving the fish to a new location. > > John, if you're suggesting that a molly "laid eggs" in the bag you should > know that mollys are not egg layers. Their eggs are fertilized within the > body and they give birth to live fry, thus the term "live bearers". It is > not normal for a live bearing fish to express eggs for no reason. Any > female live bearing fish that is full of unfertilized eggs for any length > of time typically reabsorbs the eggs and then the body produces more when > ovulation occurs. > > Dawn > > Dawn Moneyhan > Aquatics Specialist/Nutritionist > To learn more about me go to > http://www.helium.com/users/449334 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53938	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Aquaticlife reply

Hi Charles, this is Noura from Aquaticlife Yahoogroup. I live in Syria, and we're having very bad internet because of the "war". I'm not able of posting replies to the group for a mysterious reason, the reply just won't go , neither from my email nor from the website, so I'm sending it to you, hope it will reach you. If it does, please be kind to post it again in the group. Thanks! --------------------------------- Hello, Charles, according to the info you provided, I'm pretty sure not that it was an "abortion". The "eggs" were dark yellow, and crystal clear, so I guess it must be a very early stage of egg development, no eyes or tails yet. OR, the eggs were not fertilized, and instead of being absorbed back, they were dropped because of the stress. Thanks for all the replies, I think "we" are lucky indeed that the young mother is still fine and healthy. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote:

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53939	From: Noura	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

Hello, Charles, according to the info you provided, I'm pretty sure not that it was an "abortion". The "eggs" were dark yellow, and crystal clear, so I guess it must be a very early stage of egg development, no eyes or tails yet. OR, the eggs were not fertilized, and instead of being absorbed back, they were dropped because of the stress. Thanks for all the replies, I think "we" are lucky indeed that the young mother is still fine and healthy, and getting ready for a new most welcomed pregnancy. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Many times a livebearer like Guppies, Swords and Mollies will drop a > few undeveloped eggs along with the many live clutch of fry. These > are just undeveloped eggs and for some unknown reason were just not > as far along as the rest of the clutch. Very often a Livebearer like > these domesticated crosses will, under stress, release their clutch > before their time and the eggs are simply not completely developed. > If the "pellets" had eyes looking back at you and a tail curled > around the inside the egg - the stress and nearness of the term of > the development caused her to drop the clutch. > > Very often such a thing will kill the mother. You and she are lucky. > > Charles H >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53940	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fish Abortion??!

I think the word abortion implies an intentional act to remove the embryo, whereas miscarriage is something unintentional. I also don’t know whether these are the correct fish terms or if they just apply humans. I checked the definition just to verify my understanding because every time I see that subject I feel a little jolt of shock, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Abortion??! Hello, Charles, according to the info you provided, I'm pretty sure not that it was an "abortion". The "eggs" were dark yellow, and crystal clear, so I guess it must be a very early stage of egg development, no eyes or tails yet. OR, the eggs were not fertilized, and instead of being absorbed back, they were dropped because of the stress. Thanks for all the replies, I think "we" are lucky indeed that the young mother is still fine and healthy, and getting ready for a new most welcomed pregnancy. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Many times a livebearer like Guppies, Swords and Mollies will drop a > few undeveloped eggs along with the many live clutch of fry. These > are just undeveloped eggs and for some unknown reason were just not > as far along as the rest of the clutch. Very often a Livebearer like > these domesticated crosses will, under stress, release their clutch > before their time and the eggs are simply not completely developed. > If the "pellets" had eyes looking back at you and a tail curled > around the inside the egg - the stress and nearness of the term of > the development caused her to drop the clutch. > > Very often such a thing will kill the mother. You and she are lucky. > > Charles H > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53941	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Miscarriage: was Fish Abortion??!

>I think the word abortion implies an intentional act to remove the embryo, >whereas miscarriage is something unintentional. I also don’t know whether >these are the correct fish terms or if they just apply humans. Good choice. > I checked the definition just to verify my understanding because every time >I see that subject I feel a little jolt of shock, LOL. > > > > _____ > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Noura >Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:58 AM >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Abortion??! > > > > > > >Hello, >Charles, according to the info you provided, I'm pretty sure not that it was >an "abortion". The "eggs" were dark yellow, and crystal clear, so I guess it >must be a very early stage of egg development, no eyes or tails yet. OR, the >eggs were not fertilized, and instead of being absorbed back, they were >dropped because of the stress. >Thanks for all the replies, I think "we" are lucky indeed that the young >mother is still fine and healthy, and getting ready for a new most welcomed >pregnancy. > >Noura > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , >Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: >> >> Many times a livebearer like Guppies, Swords and Mollies will drop a >> few undeveloped eggs along with the many live clutch of fry. These >> are just undeveloped eggs and for some unknown reason were just not >> as far along as the rest of the clutch. Very often a Livebearer like >> these domesticated crosses will, under stress, release their clutch >> before their time and the eggs are simply not completely developed. >> If the "pellets" had eyes looking back at you and a tail curled >> around the inside the egg - the stress and nearness of the term of >> the development caused her to drop the clutch. >> >> Very often such a thing will kill the mother. You and she are lucky. >> >> Charles H >> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject >(was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 >posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post >replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53942	From: pat6801	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really nee

We'be been struggling with how to control algae in our garden pond. We've tried barley straw and general algae control chemicals and nothing seems to work. Would would greatly appreciate proven suggestions short of draining the pond and filling it in. Pat and Kathy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53943	From: Bill Marden	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really

its to much sun causeing the algy problem plant lots of lillyes and plants gl bill ________________________________ From: pat6801 <pat6801@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2012, 20:36 Subject: [AquaticLife] How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really need help   We'be been struggling with how to control algae in our garden pond. We've tried barley straw and general algae control chemicals and nothing seems to work. Would would greatly appreciate proven suggestions short of draining the pond and filling it in. Pat and Kathy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53944	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? R...

Pat and Kathy, I'm assuming you're referring to suspended algae (green water), are you not? How many hours of direct sunlight does your pond get? Most any pond should employ enough plants to cover 2/3 of the water's surface. Without this cover, you can expect green water -- especially if you have little or no submersed plants, such are Anacharis or Hornwort to use the nutrients, to help starve out the algae. Without knowing how much sun you're getting though, I can't recommend some plants that would work well for this condition. Most TropicaLWater Lilies require at least 5 hours of diect sun, on average, with some requiring more and a few tolerating less. Most Hardy Water Lilies need from 5 to 6 hours of direct sun, again with some requiring more (none requiring less). You may also use Duckweed, Azolla and/or Salvinia (or a combination of two or all three), Water Hyacinth, Water Lettuce, Botswana Wonder, Neptunia and Parrots Feather as topwater/floating plants along with water lilies to block the excess light. Barley straw will work, given enough time (it needs to preferably be placed at the edge of a water fall for best results), but if not started soon enough, it will not promote enough hyrogen peroxide to be very effective; which is how it works, in generating peroxide as it decays. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53945	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: How best to control algae in outdoor water garden pond ? Really

Hi Pat & Kathy, How big is your pond, how long has it been set up, how many fish do you have-how big are they & have you had this problem before? Can you also tell us how long you have used the barley straw & also what other treatments have you used? Algae is an opportunist plant & will grow prolifically on anything up to several inches below the water line if it is in direct sunlight. I can't comment on the barley straw method as I have never used it but I have frequently used a proprietary herbicide called Blanket Weed Control [a pink powder with a similar consistency to sugar] & the affected ponds are dosed with it monthly, it's the top one here: http://www.orchardfisheries.co.uk/treatments/blanket-weed-control. This is in the UK although there must be something similar in the US. Even this is only partially successful-the best way to deter algae/blanket weed is to have some shade to your pond from surrounding trees or buildings. You might also set plenty of Water Lilys & other plants both aquatic & marginal that will go about out-competing the algae for nutrients because a bare or sparsely planted pond is ideal breeding ground for blanket weed. You can try using a stick & gently rolling the strands around it as if you were making candy-floss & that will grab a lot of the stuff out immediately but it needs to be done frequently. I know a lady who has a a partially raised 5000 gallon pond that is open at the sides but completely roofed over so never gets any direct sunlight & I don't think she ever has any problems. John*<o)))<* On 25 August 2012 20:36, pat6801 <pat6801@...> wrote: > ** > > > We'be been struggling with how to control algae in our garden pond. We've > tried barley straw and general algae control chemicals and nothing seems to > work. > > Would would greatly appreciate proven suggestions short of draining the > pond and filling it in. > > Pat and Kathy > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53946	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Duckweed

I have a natural pond that is COVERED with duckweed. Anyone have a good suggestion for getting rid of the dickweed?? Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53947	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

John, What kind of fish do you have in your pond? Generally, Goldfish and Koi -- both being herbivors -- usually consume duckweed about as fast as it grows. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53948	From: harry perry	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: John........Re: [AquaticLife] Duckweed

Once it starts it's a matter of constantly fishing it out. In an aquarium situation you can eliminate it but in a pond I would think it's impossible with out draining the pond. Harry ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Duckweed   John, What kind of fish do you have in your pond? Generally, Goldfish and Koi -- both being herbivors -- usually consume duckweed about as fast as it grows. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53949	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

I agree with Ray, the only ponds I have known where Duckweed thrives are those with no fish at all-you do describe your pond as natural so are we talking no fish? I am currently working on a garden with a small wildlife pond & it is absolutely covered in the stuff-the resident frog has been looking at us each day with just his head poking out of the green! If you look at the link on my last post-the second item down is what you would need or at least something comparable if you are not in the UK. In my experience Duckweed is even harder to eliminate than blanket weed, you'd have to scoop out every single leaf or it covers the pond or water course again in a just a few days. John*<o)))< * On 26 August 2012 01:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > > What kind of fish do you have in your pond? Generally, Goldfish and Koi -- > both being herbivors -- usually consume duckweed about as fast as it grows. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53950	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Currently there are no fish. At one point the water level had dropped to near dry. We have had rains so now the water level is back up. As I said – this is a ‘natural’ pond – approx.. ¾ acre. Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Duckweed John, What kind of fish do you have in your pond? Generally, Goldfish and Koi -- both being herbivors -- usually consume duckweed about as fast as it grows. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53951	From: Eric Roberts	Date: 8/25/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Other than using a defoliant, I am not sure there is anything you can do. It is a very virulent invader. I don’t know of any native fish that eat it. I know angels love it. I used to get it for free from a local nursery that carried aquatic plants. They couldn’t get rid of it fast enough and the fish loved it. It would bloom in my tank and cover it for about a day or 2 (55gal) and within a week it would be gone eaten by the 2 angels we used to have. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Floyd Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed I have a natural pond that is COVERED with duckweed. Anyone have a good suggestion for getting rid of the dickweed?? Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53952	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Sell it in eBay. I have bought it and I know it does sell. Do a quick search and see the prices, not bad. Goldfish absolutely love it. You could put sterile carp in your pond to get rid of it too. Check your local extension service for sources. Enid ________________________________ From: Eric Roberts <woad@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:54 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Duckweed   Other than using a defoliant, I am not sure there is anything you can do. It is a very virulent invader. I don’t know of any native fish that eat it. I know angels love it. I used to get it for free from a local nursery that carried aquatic plants. They couldn’t get rid of it fast enough and the fish loved it. It would bloom in my tank and cover it for about a day or 2 (55gal) and within a week it would be gone…eaten by the 2 angels we used to have. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kim Floyd Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed I have a natural pond that is COVERED with duckweed. Anyone have a good suggestion for getting rid of the dickweed?? Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53953	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: A few questions from a new group member.

Greetings all! I am new to the forum and am already learning a lot from your posts! I have been keeping fish for about 7 years now as a result of a starter Betta tank at my office. I now have two 20 gallons at work, two 3 gallons betta tanks (one work, one home), and a 45 gallon tank at home. I am struggling with blue green algae in one tank and would LOVE some suggestions! It's proliferating in a planted tank and I don't want to cut the light back anymore. It's a 20 gallon tank with some Emerald Eye Rasboras (Rasboras dorsiocellata), 1 German Ram and 2 Botia striata. I am also struggling to learn the ins and outs of my 45 gallon which was a wonderful "free" acquisition. It has a sump filtration system (which I had no previous knowledge about) and I am wondering about setting up a refugium. Does anyone have any experience with this? I would love to plant some useable herbs or otherwise edible plants without worrying about toxicity to the fish. Additionally in the 45 tank, I have really wanted to establish a few German Rams, but I cannot get them to thrive. The tank is newer but the chemistry is stable. It's happily supporting a few otocinclus, 2 Botia Striata, 10 Spotted Blue Eyes (Pseudomugil gertrudae), and 3 Peacock Gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda). I do also want to get some Badis badis (not the Dario), so if anyone has any connections I would appreciate it! My LFS (who has been QUITE wonderful) has had trouble locking some down. Finally, I am wanting some input regarding personal experience with planted tanks. I am finally getting some wonderful growth after changing my substrate to the Flourite and Eco-Complete, and adding CO2 with fermenters. I have been lax about otherwise adding fertilizers which I guess I may need to get better about. Suggestions? Thank you all so much! Jennifer (Richmond, Virginia)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53954	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Re: A few questions from a new group member.

I get blue-green algae (cyanobacteria really) in my planted tanks when the plants start to languish due to lack of fertilizer. If you catch it early, you can fertilize and the plants recover thus no more cyanobacteria. You can also treat it with erythromycin but it will come back unless you solve the problem causing it in the first place. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of milnoquejr Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 2:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group member. Greetings all! I am new to the forum and am already learning a lot from your posts! I have been keeping fish for about 7 years now as a result of a starter Betta tank at my office. I now have two 20 gallons at work, two 3 gallons betta tanks (one work, one home), and a 45 gallon tank at home. I am struggling with blue green algae in one tank and would LOVE some suggestions! It's proliferating in a planted tank and I don't want to cut the light back anymore. It's a 20 gallon tank with some Emerald Eye Rasboras (Rasboras dorsiocellata), 1 German Ram and 2 Botia striata. I am also struggling to learn the ins and outs of my 45 gallon which was a wonderful "free" acquisition. It has a sump filtration system (which I had no previous knowledge about) and I am wondering about setting up a refugium. Does anyone have any experience with this? I would love to plant some useable herbs or otherwise edible plants without worrying about toxicity to the fish. Additionally in the 45 tank, I have really wanted to establish a few German Rams, but I cannot get them to thrive. The tank is newer but the chemistry is stable. It's happily supporting a few otocinclus, 2 Botia Striata, 10 Spotted Blue Eyes (Pseudomugil gertrudae), and 3 Peacock Gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda). I do also want to get some Badis badis (not the Dario), so if anyone has any connections I would appreciate it! My LFS (who has been QUITE wonderful) has had trouble locking some down. Finally, I am wanting some input regarding personal experience with planted tanks. I am finally getting some wonderful growth after changing my substrate to the Flourite and Eco-Complete, and adding CO2 with fermenters. I have been lax about otherwise adding fertilizers which I guess I may need to get better about. Suggestions? Thank you all so much! Jennifer (Richmond, Virginia) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53955	From: harry perry	Date: 8/26/2012
Subject: Jennifer.....Re: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group memb

I had it years ago. When I tested my water for phosphates it was off the chart. One of the best sources of phosphates is fish food. The quickest way to fill your tank with cyanobacteria or regular algae is to follow the feeding instructions on the side of the fish food can and not to do weekly water changes.   My solution: I maintained my lighting.  Fed the fish once every other day. Added plants. Did more frequent water changes. Put a phosphate pillow in my filter.(It absorbs phosphates)(From Fluval). Fertilized my plants. Removed as much as I could physically. I didn't use medication. I didn't want to upset the balance further by damaging the biological filer. Donna is 100% correct. You need to solve the probable cause or it will be back. The above might seem like overkill but this crap is a bear to get rid of. It can also be treated with Hydrogen Peroxide. Added to the tank or spot treated. With the fish in the tank. Be very careful. Just Google the formula.  I would try the natural way first before adding any chemicals. Keep us posted. Harry From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 10:25 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group member.   I get blue-green algae (cyanobacteria really) in my planted tanks when the plants start to languish due to lack of fertilizer. If you catch it early, you can fertilize and the plants recover thus no more cyanobacteria. You can also treat it with erythromycin…but it will come back unless you solve the problem causing it in the first place. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of milnoquejr Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 2:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group member. Greetings all! I am new to the forum and am already learning a lot from your posts! I have been keeping fish for about 7 years now as a result of a starter Betta tank at my office. I now have two 20 gallons at work, two 3 gallons betta tanks (one work, one home), and a 45 gallon tank at home. I am struggling with blue green algae in one tank and would LOVE some suggestions! It's proliferating in a planted tank and I don't want to cut the light back anymore. It's a 20 gallon tank with some Emerald Eye Rasboras (Rasboras dorsiocellata), 1 German Ram and 2 Botia striata. I am also struggling to learn the ins and outs of my 45 gallon which was a wonderful "free" acquisition. It has a sump filtration system (which I had no previous knowledge about) and I am wondering about setting up a refugium. Does anyone have any experience with this? I would love to plant some useable herbs or otherwise edible plants without worrying about toxicity to the fish. Additionally in the 45 tank, I have really wanted to establish a few German Rams, but I cannot get them to thrive. The tank is newer but the chemistry is stable. It's happily supporting a few otocinclus, 2 Botia Striata, 10 Spotted Blue Eyes (Pseudomugil gertrudae), and 3 Peacock Gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda). I do also want to get some Badis badis (not the Dario), so if anyone has any connections I would appreciate it! My LFS (who has been QUITE wonderful) has had trouble locking some down. Finally, I am wanting some input regarding personal experience with planted tanks. I am finally getting some wonderful growth after changing my substrate to the Flourite and Eco-Complete, and adding CO2 with fermenters. I have been lax about otherwise adding fertilizers which I guess I may need to get better about. Suggestions? Thank you all so much! Jennifer (Richmond, Virginia) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53956	From: Noura	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Miscarriage: was Fish Abortion??!

Sorry about that, Donna. It wasn't my intention to upset you. You're right. English is not my native language and I didn't realize the difference between the two words. Thanks for the remark. It's good to learn something new. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >I think the word abortion implies an intentional act to remove the embryo, > >whereas miscarriage is something unintentional. I also don't know whether > >these are the correct fish terms or if they just apply humans. > > Good choice. > > > > I checked the definition just to verify my understanding because every time > >I see that subject I feel a little jolt of shock, LOL. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >Behalf Of Noura > >Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:58 AM > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Fish Abortion??! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello, > >Charles, according to the info you provided, I'm pretty sure not that it was > >an "abortion". The "eggs" were dark yellow, and crystal clear, so I guess it > >must be a very early stage of egg development, no eyes or tails yet. OR, the > >eggs were not fertilized, and instead of being absorbed back, they were > >dropped because of the stress. > >Thanks for all the replies, I think "we" are lucky indeed that the young > >mother is still fine and healthy, and getting ready for a new most welcomed > >pregnancy. > > > >Noura > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > >Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > >> > >> Many times a livebearer like Guppies, Swords and Mollies will drop a > >> few undeveloped eggs along with the many live clutch of fry. These > >> are just undeveloped eggs and for some unknown reason were just not > >> as far along as the rest of the clutch. Very often a Livebearer like > >> these domesticated crosses will, under stress, release their clutch > >> before their time and the eggs are simply not completely developed. > >> If the "pellets" had eyes looking back at you and a tail curled > >> around the inside the egg - the stress and nearness of the term of > >> the development caused her to drop the clutch. > >> > >> Very often such a thing will kill the mother. You and she are lucky. > >> > >> Charles H > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > >(was re: old subject)" <- > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, > >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your > >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > >Membership" on the home page. > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to > >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > >posts at a time in a single email > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for > >the No E-Mail option where you will still be > >able to read messages on the group and post > >replies. > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to > >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53957	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Goldfish Problem

Hi Everyone, One of my fish, an 8-9 year old Comet approx 7" long [not including tail] has been spending a lot of time hanging almost motionless, head-up vertically just under the water's surface as if he is in a trance. He gradually drops still in the vertical position until his tail is almost touching the gravel & then he will swim back up & start all over again. This could go on for hours. When disturbed he moves normally & swims around. This has only been going on for a few days-beforehand he would spend much of his time resting in a large tunnel but he has hardly been in there since this behavior change. I have checked the obvious things like water quality & pH but there is nothing different to report there. I do have an ongoing battle with high NO3 which despite changing 25% every three days & using some RO water I'm still returning a reading of around 40. This has been an ongoing problem for a couple of years. I read that swim bladder disorders are linked to high NO3 so that could well be the problem. Occasionally he will go beyond the upright position-by that I mean he will tilt farther back so that he is at more than 90 degrees to the water's surface & then he will do a somersault to right himself. At no time does he show any signs of distress or difficulty. The only places he does this is at the ends in the corners & then only the front corners. When he swims normally he will actively swim from one end to the other & then go vertical again. I wonder if Epsom Salts would be worth thinking about? Another idea I have is that he could be doing this out of habit-any ideas please? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53958	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Re: Duckweed

Eat it or use it in compost? http://www.eattheweeds.com/duckweed/ -Jennifer > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kim Floyd > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Duckweed > > I have a natural pond that is COVERED with duckweed. Anyone have a good > suggestion for getting rid of the dickweed?? > > Johmanda > > Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs > > www.johmanda.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53959	From: milnoquejr	Date: 8/27/2012
Subject: Jennifer.....Re: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group memb

THANKS!!! I will increase the water changes and fertilize the plants. I currently only feed 4 days a week, but maybe the tap water is high in phosphates or I'm not changing water frequently enough. I'll look into the phosphate pillow as well! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I had it years ago. When I tested my water for phosphates it was off the chart. > > One of the best sources of phosphates is fish food. The quickest way to fill your tank with cyanobacteria or regular algae is to follow the feeding instructions on the side of the fish food can and not to do weekly water changes. > >   > My solution: > > I maintained my lighting.  > Fed the fish once every other day. > > Added plants. > > Did more frequent water changes. > Put a phosphate pillow in my filter.(It absorbs phosphates)(From Fluval). > Fertilized my plants. > Removed as much as I could physically. > > I didn't use medication. I didn't want to upset the balance further by damaging the biological filer. > > Donna is 100% correct. You need to solve the probable cause or it will be back. > > The above might seem like overkill but this crap is a bear to get rid of. > > It can also be treated with Hydrogen Peroxide. Added to the tank or spot treated. > > With the fish in the tank. Be very careful. Just Google the formula.  > > I would try the natural way first before adding any chemicals. > > Keep us posted. > > Harry > > > > > From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 10:25 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group member. > > >   > I get blue-green algae (cyanobacteria really) in my planted tanks when the > plants start to languish due to lack of fertilizer. If you catch it early, > you can fertilize and the plants recover thus no more cyanobacteria. You > can also treat it with erythromycin…but it will come back unless you solve > the problem causing it in the first place. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of milnoquejr > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 2:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] A few questions from a new group member. > > Greetings all! > > I am new to the forum and am already learning a lot from your posts! > > I have been keeping fish for about 7 years now as a result of a starter > Betta tank at my office. I now have two 20 gallons at work, two 3 gallons > betta tanks (one work, one home), and a 45 gallon tank at home. > > I am struggling with blue green algae in one tank and would LOVE some > suggestions! It's proliferating in a planted tank and I don't want to cut > the light back anymore. It's a 20 gallon tank with some Emerald Eye Rasboras > (Rasboras dorsiocellata), 1 German Ram and 2 Botia striata. > > I am also struggling to learn the ins and outs of my 45 gallon which was a > wonderful "free" acquisition. It has a sump filtration system (which I had > no previous knowledge about) and I am wondering about setting up a refugium. > Does anyone have any experience with this? I would love to plant some > useable herbs or otherwise edible plants without worrying about toxicity to > the fish. Additionally in the 45 tank, I have really wanted to establish a > few German Rams, but I cannot get them to thrive. The tank is newer but the > chemistry is stable. It's happily supporting a few otocinclus, 2 Botia > Striata, 10 Spotted Blue Eyes (Pseudomugil gertrudae), and 3 Peacock > Gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda). I do also want to get some Badis badis > (not the Dario), so if anyone has any connections I would appreciate it! My > LFS (who has been QUITE wonderful) has had trouble locking some down. > > Finally, I am wanting some input regarding personal experience with planted > tanks. I am finally getting some wonderful growth after changing my > substrate to the Flourite and Eco-Complete, and adding CO2 with fermenters. > I have been lax about otherwise adding fertilizers which I guess I may need > to get better about. Suggestions? > > Thank you all so much! > Jennifer > (Richmond, Virginia) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53960	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/28/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Hi John, You could try Epsom salt, as you had asked about; it couldn't hurt and may just help. You could also try feeding it de-shelled green peas. Might just be that it's constipated and the pressure is pushing against the swim bladder. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Hi Ray, Added the Epsom Salts & within 20 minutes he was looking better, by this morning he was doing great & tonight he is almost back to normal. The prolonged surface hanging has stopped & he is now swimming around with his friends-such a relief. I have used this treatment before when one of my fish was bottom sitting & looking bloated-within a few hours he had done a poop almost a foot long & was swimming around like nothing had happened. I'm not sure of the percentage but the total gallonage of my tank including the filtration system & plumbing is around 120 UK gallons [144 US gallons] & to that I added 72 dessert spoons of Epsom Salts. I mixed it in a bucket with some tank water until it was completely dissolved & then added it slowly back in to the tank over the next half hour, one cupful at a time. Today I did my regular 30 gallon water change & so I added back the pro-rata rate of 18 dessert spoons of Epsom Salts to this new water. John*<o)))< * On 28 August 2012 13:20, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > You could try Epsom salt, as you had asked about; it couldn't hurt and may > just help. You could also try feeding it de-shelled green peas. Might just > be that it's constipated and the pressure is pushing against the swim > bladder. > > Ray</HTML> > __. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53962	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Hi John, I don't know exactly how a dessert spoon compares to a teaspoon, so have no idea of the capacity of it. Most similar measures in treating aquarium fish are either in teaspoons or tablespoons, with about the most Epsom salt I'd recommend for this problem being 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. Gallons (4.16 Imperial Gallons) -- or, 1 2/3 teaspoon per U.S. gallon. Might be that your dessert spoons come out to this amount, I don't know. Glad to hear it worked; it sounded as though this fish was constipated, so I expected good results. As some of your fish seem to get this occasionally, you might try feeding them green peas once a month. It's a natural laxative and probably better than using Epsom salt, even though the salt treatment is mild. It of course will harden the water considerably, so remove it even more slowly than you added it to avoid any possible osmotic shock. Its complete removal over several days wouldn't be too fast, and since there seems no further need for it, you may just as well start taking it out starting with your next PWC unless you still see a further fish problem. Can you think of any particular food that may be causing this? As I'm sure you're aware, a varied diet is always best. As Goldfish are herbivors, try feeding more veggie-type foods -- even some Duckweed as has been mentioned on here recently (or spirulina flakes, if you would). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53963	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Hi Ray, I weighed out a dessert spoonful of Epsom Salts & it is 0.46 ounces or 13 grams. I have a 120 UK gallon system [144 US gallons] & I have added 72 dessert spoonfuls to that which equals 936 grams or 33 ounces. Hopefully now someone can tell me a] what the current concentration is & b] what the maximum safe levels are just so I have some guidelines to work to. I have just weighed out a tea spoonful of the Epsom Salts & that measures 6 grams or 0.21 ounces so that is almost exactly the same pro-rata as the measurement I am using with a dessert spoon although it is more in tune with the US gallonage but still [I think?] a workable measurement for my tank. I will be very careful to do it slowly when I remove the Epsom Salts. My fish has taken a turn for the worse this afternoon unfortunately, he was looking ok this morning but has started the same corner hanging just under the surface this afternoon & also has a definate bend to his body which is not a good sign. When disturbed he will swim normally although he has a tendency to go upside down now & again. I'm not aware of anything that could be contributing to this because my foods have been the same for over a year now. The staple diet is good quality 6mm floating Koi pellets together with the regular Tetra Pond Sticks & Pro Gold Large Goldfish sinking pellets. I also offer small sprinklings of the tiny Hikari Marine 'S' seaweed sinking pellets which they love & give them an opportunity to sift through all the gravel. My tank is quite heavily stocked with plants now & I have 2 types of Hornwort together with straight Vallis & long Anacharis which I started with primarily for them to snack on but to this day I have never seen anyone take even a small nibble of any of the plants but they used to when they were baby fish & did so until two or three years ago. However-it was my understanding that good quality pellets contained everything the fish needed for nutrition? John. On 29 August 2012 15:59, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > I don't know exactly how a dessert spoon compares to a teaspoon, so have > no > idea of the capacity of it. Most similar measures in treating aquarium > fish are either in teaspoons or tablespoons, with about the most Epsom > salt I'd > recommend for this problem being 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. Gallons (4.16 > Imperial Gallons) -- or, 1 2/3 teaspoon per U.S. gallon. Might be that > your > dessert spoons come out to this amount, I don't know. > > Glad to hear it worked; it sounded as though this fish was constipated, so > I expected good results. As some of your fish seem to get this > occasionally, you might try feeding them green peas once a month. It's a > natural > laxative and probably better than using Epsom salt, even though the salt > treatment > is mild. It of course will harden the water considerably, so remove it > even more slowly than you added it to avoid any possible osmotic shock. > Its > complete removal over several days wouldn't be too fast, and since there > seems > no further need for it, you may just as well start taking it out starting > with your next PWC unless you still see a further fish problem. > > Can you think of any particular food that may be causing this? As I'm sure > you're aware, a varied diet is always best. As Goldfish are herbivors, try > feeding more veggie-type foods -- even some Duckweed as has been mentioned > on here recently (or spirulina flakes, if you would). > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53964	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

John, Your salt addition seems to be right about on the money, as far as the quantity you used. Appears that while this may have promoted at least some temporary relief for this fish, there may be some internal infection -- either intestinal or swim bladder. I know you can't always obtain the same medications that I might use here in the States, but I'd recommend treating with a readily absorbable (internally) broad-spectrum antibiotic -- such as Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid, if you can find it. It may not necessarily be named as such, but should include one of these medications of choice for addressing any such issue. As the salt content doesn't seem excessive, there's no need to rush its removal. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53965	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Who rocks in this group?

Hi all. I went to a big family reunion on the weekend, and dug out 5 different kinds of rocks from where just the foundation is left, from the house my great, great grandparents built. I really wanted to use all of them, but one of the big ones; that is nice looking, failed the vinegar test. After looking it up, it looks like a type of limestone. Most of my fish are pretty "neutral" on their feelings about their water. Is there anything that would allow me to still use the rock; short of constantly adding stuff to counteract its effects? Is there a clear coating that I could apply to it; as a D.I.Y. kind of guy, to make it safe? Anyone done that before with a rock or something else? If not; then it will find a place of honour in our garden. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53966	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53967	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Hi Al, Many years ago (back in the early 50's), we had a choice of using either black asphaltum paint (or hot tar) or clear spar varnish on the inside seams of slate-bottom steel-frame aquariums when they leaked. There was no silicone sealant back then, there weren't even any all-glass tanks. You might try using the spar varnish on a test piece of rock. Better yet, if you could use it on a test piece of limestone rock, and take a pH test on water it's submerged in after it dries. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53968	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/29/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

spar varnish.... never heard of such a thing... i shall give it a few coats... put it in a bucket for a few days and then test the ph. thanks Ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Many years ago (back in the early 50's), we had a choice of using either > black asphaltum paint (or hot tar) or clear spar varnish on the inside seams > of slate-bottom steel-frame aquariums when they leaked. There was no > silicone sealant back then, there weren't even any all-glass tanks. You might try > using the spar varnish on a test piece of rock. Better yet, if you could > use it on a test piece of limestone rock, and take a pH test on water it's > submerged in after it dries. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53969	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

I might try it (bucket for a few days) without the varnish first sometimes the rock dissolves so slowly that it does not raise your pH. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Who rocks in this group? spar varnish.... never heard of such a thing... i shall give it a few coats... put it in a bucket for a few days and then test the ph. thanks Ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Many years ago (back in the early 50's), we had a choice of using either > black asphaltum paint (or hot tar) or clear spar varnish on the inside seams > of slate-bottom steel-frame aquariums when they leaked. There was no > silicone sealant back then, there weren't even any all-glass tanks. You might try > using the spar varnish on a test piece of rock. Better yet, if you could > use it on a test piece of limestone rock, and take a pH test on water it's > submerged in after it dries. > > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53970	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Al, You should be able to find it in a hardware store, Try it on a test piece of rock first. It may not be what you want after it dries, even though it's supposedly clear. We used it over the black aquarium putty of the time, and could never really tell (or care) if it dried exacty clear or not; we just were more concerned about sealing the leaking tanks. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53971	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Spar Varnish is a marine type varnish and is very hard. Most local type hardware stores carry it or can get it. Not sure of the HomeDepot’s and Lowe’s. I know that ACE Hardware’s at least have access to it if they don’t carry it and most can order on a weekly basis. Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Who rocks in this group? spar varnish.... never heard of such a thing... i shall give it a few coats... put it in a bucket for a few days and then test the ph. thanks Ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Many years ago (back in the early 50's), we had a choice of using either > black asphaltum paint (or hot tar) or clear spar varnish on the inside seams > of slate-bottom steel-frame aquariums when they leaked. There was no > silicone sealant back then, there weren't even any all-glass tanks. You might try > using the spar varnish on a test piece of rock. Better yet, if you could > use it on a test piece of limestone rock, and take a pH test on water it's > submerged in after it dries. > > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53972	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Thanks all for your thoughts. theres a marina just down the street from me that can sell me some... they may even give me a bit.... its a small town. Thats a good idea though Donna; I'll test it first to see if its necessary... its almost finished its bleach bath.. then rinse rinse rinse....Ill let ya all know how it turns out, and put some pics in my folder... i think its cool to have that family history in my tanks. thanks again. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > I went to a big family reunion on the weekend, and dug out 5 different kinds of rocks from where just the foundation is left, from the house my great, great grandparents built. I really wanted to use all of them, but one of the big ones; that is nice looking, failed the vinegar test. After looking it up, it looks like a type of limestone. > Most of my fish are pretty "neutral" on their feelings about their water. Is there anything that would allow me to still use the rock; short of constantly adding stuff to counteract its effects? > Is there a clear coating that I could apply to it; as a D.I.Y. kind of guy, to make it safe? Anyone done that before with a rock or something else? If not; then it will find a place of honour in our garden. > Thanks. > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53973	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?

Hi everyone,   Doing a search here I came across two things of note.  First it seems that there are very similar products on the market at Home Depot currently.  One of those must be through the roof money wise, they won't even quote a price directly on the net.  I got interested in this thread because I may build my own stand and just found out last night that my old standby-by, Polyurethane is not as it use to be.   Oh well, few things are these days!  In any event here are the links:   http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lanco-marine-master-1-qt-oil-ultra-spar-marine-varnish-mm300-5.html   http://www.homedepot.com/buy/varathane-1-gallon-clear-gloss-spar-varnish-242179.html#more_info   Both of these products came up on my search.  Remember one thing if you follow along and read the links.  The marine is only for a QT.!  The Varathane is for a gallon.  Note the pricing-.........and sit down when you do!   bill in pa   --- On Thu, 8/30/12, Kim Floyd <johmanda@...> wrote: From: Kim Floyd <johmanda@...> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Who rocks in this group? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, August 30, 2012, 12:09 PM Spar Varnish is a marine type varnish and is very hard.  Most local type hardware stores carry it or can get it.  Not sure of the HomeDepot’s and Lowe’s.  I know that ACE Hardware’s at least have access to it if they don’t carry it and most can order on a weekly basis. Johmanda Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs www.johmanda.com From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Who rocks in this group?   spar varnish.... never heard of such a thing... i shall give it a few coats... put it in a bucket for a few days and then test the ph. thanks Ray. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Many years ago (back in the early 50's), we had a choice of using either > black asphaltum paint (or hot tar) or clear spar varnish on the inside seams > of slate-bottom steel-frame aquariums when they leaked. There was no > silicone sealant back then, there weren't even any all-glass tanks. You might try > using the spar varnish on a test piece of rock. Better yet, if you could > use it on a test piece of limestone rock, and take a pH test on water it's > submerged in after it dries. > > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53974	From: bill 1433	Date: 8/30/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group LET'S TRY AGAIN

Hi everyone,   Doing a search here I came across two things of note.  First it seems that there are very similar products on the market at Home Depot currently.  One of those must be through the roof money wise, they won't even quote a price directly on the net.  I got interested in this thread because I may build my own stand and just found out last night that my old standby-by, Polyurethane is not as it use to be.   Oh well, few things are these days!  In any event here are the links:   http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lanco-marine-master-1-qt-oil-ultra-spar-marine-varnish-mm300-5.html   http://www.homedepot.com/buy/varathane-1-gallon-clear-gloss-spar-varnish-242179.html#more_info   Both of these products came up on my search.  Remember one thing if you follow along and read the links.  The marine is only for a QT.!  The Varathane is for a gallon.  Note the pricing-.........and sit down when you do!   bill in pa

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53975	From: k chen	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Based on my experience, it has to do with the food which we feed to goldfish. Although some food are formulated to sink to the bottom so goldfish does not gulp in air while eating, it may not help. Through trial and error, I found that pro-gold goldfish food does the trick. You can buy it only through online. Karl To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss@... Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 10:59:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish Problem Hi John, I don't know exactly how a dessert spoon compares to a teaspoon, so have no idea of the capacity of it. Most similar measures in treating aquarium fish are either in teaspoons or tablespoons, with about the most Epsom salt I'd recommend for this problem being 1 Tablespoon per 5 U.S. Gallons (4.16 Imperial Gallons) -- or, 1 2/3 teaspoon per U.S. gallon. Might be that your dessert spoons come out to this amount, I don't know. Glad to hear it worked; it sounded as though this fish was constipated, so I expected good results. As some of your fish seem to get this occasionally, you might try feeding them green peas once a month. It's a natural laxative and probably better than using Epsom salt, even though the salt treatment is mild. It of course will harden the water considerably, so remove it even more slowly than you added it to avoid any possible osmotic shock. Its complete removal over several days wouldn't be too fast, and since there seems no further need for it, you may just as well start taking it out starting with your next PWC unless you still see a further fish problem. Can you think of any particular food that may be causing this? As I'm sure you're aware, a varied diet is always best. As Goldfish are herbivors, try feeding more veggie-type foods -- even some Duckweed as has been mentioned on here recently (or spirulina flakes, if you would). Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53976	From: rachell7	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)

OK while all of you who are seasoned and experienced aquarium owners are rolling your eyes and going OMG and LMAO! I need some advice, this is the first baby fish I have had and I've had my 10 gal. tank now for over a year and a half. I was going to do a monthly vacuum and noticed a piece of debris floating near the bottom that didn't act like the normal stuff you see. Upon closer inspection, it's a baby red wag that is a 1/4 inches long and I notice hangs around the plants!!! OK, I'm excited but want to know, is there anything I should/can do to ensure it'll make it? I'm postponing the vacuum of course! But plan to do a water change. I don't have another tank to transfer it into so it has to stay where it is. Any hints or tips. I have to go away for a couple of days later this week but other then that will be checking back with the group! Thanks and try not to laugh so hard guy! Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53977	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)

>OK while all of you who are seasoned and >experienced aquarium owners are rolling your >eyes and going OMG and LMAO! I need some advice, >this is the first baby fish I have had and I've >had my 10 gal. tank now for over a year and a >half. I was going to do a monthly vacuum and >noticed a piece of debris floating near the >bottom that didn't act like the normal stuff you >see. Upon closer inspection, it's a baby red >wag that is a 1/4 inches long and I notice hangs >around the plants!!! > >OK, I'm excited but want to know, is there >anything I should/can do to ensure it'll make >it? I'm >postponing the vacuum of course! But >plan to do a water change. I don't have another >tank to >transfer it into so it has to stay >where it is. Any hints or tips. I have to go >away for a couple of >days later this week but >other then that will be checking back with the >group! Thanks and try not >to laugh so hard >guy! Rachell Hey, Rachell, I think you have reached the "Second Tank" level. I hear that PetSmart is having a dollar sale, purchase a tank for a dollar a gallon. A ten gallon tank will only set you back $10.oo. It sounds like it's time. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53978	From: Amber	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?

Hello! I've got a 55 gallon tank with four medium sized goldfish in it. We set the tank up around a month ago and ever since our tank has been cloudy. Even the water coming out of the filters is cloudy. Here's the info on the tank: 55 gallons AquaClear 50 HOB filter. Tetra Whisper Internal 30i filter 3 common goldfish 1 comet goldfish I do not know anything about the ammonia or nitrite levels in the tank right now. We don't have the extra money to get a testing kit. Hopefully I will be able to get a kit soon. Here's some info. on the filters, just in case. AquaClear: It has multiple things for the filter media. It's got a foam insert, a carbon pouch, and a bio-bag. Here's some information on them. Typical Filter Media Placement: Bottom AquaClear Foam Insert, which does the following: 1. Helps with debris removal and provides optimal water distribution patterns, allowing subsequent filter media to perform at full efficiency. 2. Biological filtration, due to the porous structure of foam, providing surfaces for beneficial bacteria. Middle AquaClear Activated Carbon Filter Inserts contain 100% premium research grade carbon. Premium research grade carbon provides large amounts of surface area for adsorption of undesirable impurities. The Activated Carbon Filter Inserts will remove unwanted odors, discoloration and impurities resulting in a crystal clear aquarium. AquaClear Carbon filter inserts provide more than five times the carbon found in most single cartridge clip on filter systems. This level of carbon will provide optimal water clarity in both freshwater and saltwater aquariums. Top AquaClear BioMax Filter Inserts contain BioMax ceramic rings. The surface of BioMax is made up of a complex pore system that allows bacteria to thrive. Use of the BioMax Filter Insert will provide optimal living space for beneficial bacteria and enhance the removal of ammonia and nitrites resulting in a healthy aquarium environment. ........ The Whisper internal filter is a lot simpler. It only has a simple filter cartridge. ...... Okay, so on to my questions: I should be doing a 50% water change once a week, right? So, if this is true could I do five 10% changes every week? What's making the tank cloudy and what can I do to help remedy that? Every water change I take the foam insert out of my AquaClear and rinse it clean. I don't touch the bio-bag or the carbon pouch. I've put pictures of the water that I took out of the tank on flicker and if anyone would like to see them I'm sure I can post a link to them. I know goldfish are difficult to take care of but I don't really want to have to give them up.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53979	From: rachell7	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)

Thanks Charles! I'll check them out tomorrow for a tank and hope to pick something up! Now I have another question, if I move the little one to a tank of it's own what do I feed it? And also what do you suggest to use to move it, I'm afraid the net I have will damage or injure it. OK I am excited and I have asked my husband to check the group for me while I'm out of town. Thanks in advance for any help! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > >OK while all of you who are seasoned and > >experienced aquarium owners are rolling your > >eyes and going OMG and LMAO! I need some advice, > >this is the first baby fish I have had and I've > >had my 10 gal. tank now for over a year and a > >half. I was going to do a monthly vacuum and > >noticed a piece of debris floating near the > >bottom that didn't act like the normal stuff you > >see. Upon closer inspection, it's a baby red > >wag that is a 1/4 inches long and I notice hangs > >around the plants!!! > > > >OK, I'm excited but want to know, is there > >anything I should/can do to ensure it'll make > >it? I'm >postponing the vacuum of course! But > >plan to do a water change. I don't have another > >tank to >transfer it into so it has to stay > >where it is. Any hints or tips. I have to go > >away for a couple of >days later this week but > >other then that will be checking back with the > >group! Thanks and try not >to laugh so hard > >guy! Rachell > > Hey, Rachell, > I think you have reached the "Second Tank" level. > I hear that PetSmart is having a dollar sale, > purchase a tank for a dollar a gallon. A ten > gallon tank will only set you back $10.oo. It > sounds like it's time. > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53980	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/4/2012
Subject: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?

I have a Green Killing Machine UV sterilizer in my saltwater tank. I've had it a little over a year. How long do the bulbs last, and how do I put a new one in? Thanks!!!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53981	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Karl, You make a valid point, gulping air has always been a problem -- not only with Goldfish but with many other fishes. Quite often, when this does occur, the manifestation of this problem of gulping air resulting in the fishes not being able to balance themselves properly in the water column, is seen just about as soon as they're put on dry foods. At least, this is what I've observed in some of my tanks -- depending on the species -- and then, it's seen only as a temporary condition which lasts just a very short time (until the next feeding brings it on again). John's problem appears to have cropped up very suddenly whereas he's never seen it before while the fish was growing, affecting only his grown fish, so I'm not sure if his problem is due to his fish merely gulping air, or at least it wouldn't seem to be; but refraining from feeding floating foods is sure worth a try. I have seen reports of sudden swim bladder problems resulting from the intake of air though. Thanks for drawing our attention to the Pro-Gold food. It's worth considering, even for other members. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53982	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?

Amber (love_animals07), You don't make it explicitly clear, but by your description of events, it sounds like you added these fish almost as soon as setting up the tank. Did you establish a nitrogen cycle first? If not, this is why your tank is continously cloudy as what you're seeing is a bacterial bloom -- unless this cloudiness is greenish (in which case, it's suspended algae). If it's whitish (or grayish) though, it's definitely bacteria developing from the ammonia that is being given off by the fish and not being converted to nitrate by a nitrogen cycle. NO aquarium filter made will remove bacteria from the water -- with exception of having an Ultra-Violet unit. Your BioMax ceramic rings will remove it, but only after they become populated with nitrifying bacteria; i.e., beneficial bacteria will migrate to your filter in establishing a cycle, given time. It takes about 6 weeks for this to be completed (fish really shouldn't be added before this time). While you don't state the size of your "medium" goldfish. please know that four of them will eventually grossly overcrowd the tank as they can easily reach 14" in length -- and by "medium" right now, I have to assume they're fairly sizeable and exerting a fairly heavy bioload on the environment. Two Comet or two common Goldfish would need a minimum of a 75 gallon tank (and a 90 gallon would be more suited to two straight-tails). As a test kit is not now in your budget, I would highly recommend doing large and frequent partial water changes (PWC's) each week. As to your question on this, one larger PWC per week will remove much more than five smaller PWC's per week -- simply because if you made five 10% PWC's, with each succeeding PWC, you'd be removing more and more of the new water you just added each previous day, As ammonia is very toxic to fishes, and as there's obviously enough ammonia in your tank in dangerous amounts that aren't being broken down to relatively harmless nitrate (or else you wouldn't have this cloudy bloom), I'd recommend doing two fairly large PWC's per week, on the order of amount 40% each time -- especially as you don't have an ammonia test kit to monitor it. Reason; four medium goldfish in a 75 gallon tank can build up ammonia levels beyond toxic levels before a tank is "cycled," when sufficient water is not changed. Then too, you don't know your nitrite (not nitrate) level after 4 weeks of not having a nitrogen cycle to remove it, and this can be even more toxic than ammonia. You also mention that you rinse the foam filter insert with every water change. I hope you're rinsing it in a bucket of old aquarium water and not under your faucet. Fresh water, with it's chloramine, will destroy any beneficial nitrifying bacteria attempting to colonize this foam insert which arer needed for establishing your nitogen cycle. I'd also recommend taking two of your Goldfish back to the fish store, unless you plan on upgrading to a 150 (or larger) gallon tank in the near future. Perhaps their return would enable you to purchase a test kit, which I'd also highly recommend as soon as you can -- as a master test kit, containing most tests needed. I'd hate to see you lose any of these fish through ammonia poisoning. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53983	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?

UV sterilizer bulbs should be changed once a year (at least). Don't know how to change the one in your unit, as I'm not familiar with it. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53984	From: Amber Larr	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?

Thanks. I've been thinking about finding someone with a pond and giving them some of my goldfish. I'd keep at least one of them, though. I know they're going to grow. They are all around four or five inches. I'd put a pond in at my house (Just a small one) but I don't know how long we'd be living here. Yes, I do use aquarium water when I rinse the foam. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53985	From: Reba	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Newbie to the Group

Hi everyone. My name is Reba and I'm a new member to the group. I had a fish tank for about 20 years, then stopped for the last 10 years. I missed it so I recently started a 45 gallon tank with a 10 gallon hospital tank. In all the years I never had a planted tank so this time I want to try my hand at plants. I don't know anything about planting in a tank. I'm getting community fish. Within the first 2 weeks my new tank developed ich, just my luck. I first used a commercial Ich product for 10 days and the Ich seemed to grow. 4 days ago, I started using heat and salt and the fish look a lot better already. I'll be glad when my new tank is settled so I won't bring home anymore Ich. I hope to share this hobby with you and learn a lot about planting tanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53986	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)

Rachell, Setting up a new tank is a big deal and you should be aware of some of the problems as well as the benefits. You will need some of the live material from the established tank to get the tank to cycle and new filter and maybe a light as well. Don't rush into something like this blind. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >Thanks Charles! I'll check them out tomorrow >for a tank and hope to pick something up! Now I >have another question, if I move the little one >to a tank of it's own what do I feed it? And >also what do you suggest to use to move it, I'm >afraid the net I have will damage or injure it. > >OK I am excited and I have asked my husband to >check the group for me while I'm out of town. >Thanks in advance for any help! Rachell > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: >> >> >OK while all of you who are seasoned and >> >experienced aquarium owners are rolling your >> >eyes and going OMG and LMAO! I need some advice, > >this is the first baby fish I have had and I've [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53987	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?

>Okay, so on to my questions: >I should be doing a 50% water change once a >week, right? So, if this is true could I do five >10% changes every week? NO! That is not the same. 50% water change takes out 50% of the waste, 10% only takes out 10% of it. 90% is left behind. Next 10% out still leaves 90% of the waste behind. The equilibrium will drop to a specific level over several weeks but 50% out gets closer to new water than 10% out ever will. What keeps the water cloudy? The tank never really cycled and the Bio-load you have it under is too high. Goldfish don't have much of a stomach. They don't digest their food very well. That is true of many scavenger/bottom feeders. A large portion of what you put into their mouths comes out the other end unchanged. That's why they need so much room/water to be housed. Of course the fish gets to 7 to 12 pounds full grown and that is a lot of fish and fish waste. Good luck. }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >Hello! I've got a 55 gallon tank with four >medium sized goldfish in it. We set the tank up >around a >month ago and ever since our tank has >been cloudy. Even the water coming out of the >filters is >cloudy. Here's the info on the tank: > >55 gallons >AquaClear 50 HOB filter. >Tetra Whisper Internal 30i filter >3 common goldfish >1 comet goldfish What's making the tank cloudy >and what can I do to help remedy that? Every >water change I take the foam insert out of my >AquaClear and rinse it clean. I don't touch the >bio-bag or the carbon pouch. I've put pictures >of the water that I took out of the tank on >flicker and if anyone would like to see them I'm >sure I can post a link to them. I know goldfish >are difficult to take care of but I don't really >want to have to give them up. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53988	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Goldfish Problem

Hi Ray & Karl, I do use the Pro Gold sinking pellets that I have sent over from the US as part of my fishes diet but I also don't think that surface feeding can create problems as this only seems to be an issue with fat bodied fancy Goldfish rather than the streamlined Commons & Comets that I have. Furthermore I have never seen any problems like this in pond fish or indeed wild fish who gulp air at the surface constantly. There are two sizes of Pro Gold, the regular small pellets & the larger 6mm round pellets for bigger fish-these are what I use. John*<o)))< * * * On 5 September 2012 09:50, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Karl, > > You make a valid point, gulping air has always been a problem -- not only > with Goldfish but with many other fishes. Quite often, when this does > occur, > the manifestation of this problem of gulping air resulting in the fishes > not being able to balance themselves properly in the water column, is seen > just about as soon as they're put on dry foods. At least, this is what > I've > observed in some of my tanks -- depending on the species -- and then, it's > seen only as a temporary condition which lasts just a very short time > (until > the next feeding brings it on again). John's problem appears to have > cropped > up very suddenly whereas he's never seen it before while the fish was > growing, affecting only his grown fish, so I'm not sure if his problem is > due to > his fish merely gulping air, or at least it wouldn't seem to be; but > refraining from feeding floating foods is sure worth a try. I have seen > reports of > sudden swim bladder problems resulting from the intake of air though. > Thanks for drawing our attention to the Pro-Gold food. It's worth > considering, > even for other members. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53989	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Uv sterilizer bulbs--how long?

I change mine as a matter of course every 8 months just to be on the safe side as the UV bulbs loose their effectiveness over time. There are lots of videos about this unit on YouTube, you will likely find one that shows you how to replace the bulb on there. John*<o)))< * On 5 September 2012 11:59, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > UV sterilizer bulbs should be changed once a year (at least). Don't know > how to change the one in your unit, as I'm not familiar with it. </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53990	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Cloudy Tank and water changes advise?

Hi Amber, I have 4 Goldfish in a 100 UK gallon tank [I think that's 120+ US gallons] & they are all a little bigger than yours. I struggle to maintain anything like good quality water doing a 30 gallon water change every other day so I do think it is a good idea of yours to find someone with a pond that your fish can live happily in-these animals can reach over a foot long so they will be messing up their water big time. I would add that Goldfish love each others company so it is kinder to keep 2 rather than 1 if you are going to keep any. They are very dirty fish waste-wise & will quickly pollute any small system they are in so you need huge tanks with vast filtration for Goldfish. One of the ironies of fishkeeping is that the humble Goldfish-one of the cheapest fish-needs a lot of money, time & knowledge invested to keep after them properly. John*<o)))<* On 5 September 2012 20:21, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > >Okay, so on to my questions: > >I should be doing a 50% water change once a > >week, right? So, if this is true could I do five > >10% changes every week? > > NO! That is not the same. 50% water > change takes out 50% of the waste, 10% only takes > out 10% of it. 90% is left behind. Next 10% out > still leaves 90% of the waste behind. The > equilibrium will drop to a specific level over > several weeks but 50% out gets closer to new > water than 10% out ever will. > > What keeps the water cloudy? The tank never > really cycled and the Bio-load you have it under > is too high. > > Goldfish don't have much of a stomach. They don't > digest their food very well. That is true of many > scavenger/bottom feeders. A large portion of what > you put into their mouths comes out the other end > unchanged. That's why they need so much > room/water to be housed. Of course the fish gets > to 7 to 12 pounds full grown and that is a lot of > fish and fish waste. > > Good luck. > }}<{{{�> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{�> }}<{{{�> > > >Hello! I've got a 55 gallon tank with four > >medium sized goldfish in it. We set the tank up > >around a >month ago and ever since our tank has > >been cloudy. Even the water coming out of the > >filters is >cloudy. Here's the info on the tank: > > > >55 gallons > >AquaClear 50 HOB filter. > >Tetra Whisper Internal 30i filter > >3 common goldfish > >1 comet goldfish What's making the tank cloudy > >and what can I do to help remedy that? Every > >water change I take the foam insert out of my > >AquaClear and rinse it clean. I don't touch the > >bio-bag or the carbon pouch. I've put pictures > >of the water that I took out of the tank on > >flicker and if anyone would like to see them I'm > >sure I can post a link to them. I know goldfish > >are difficult to take care of but I don't really > >want to have to give them up. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53991	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Hi Reba, Welcome to the group. I know next to nothing about planted tanks so I'll leave that for the experts to tell you but I will say well done in getting the Ich under control-salt is a really good ally for fishkeepers & unlike many over the counter products it is really effective & has little or no detrimental effect on your system. John. On 5 September 2012 20:07, Reba <reba_curtis@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi everyone. My name is Reba and I'm a new member to the group. I had a > fish tank for about 20 years, then stopped for the last 10 years. I missed > it so I recently started a 45 gallon tank with a 10 gallon hospital tank. > In all the years I never had a planted tank so this time I want to try my > hand at plants. I don't know anything about planting in a tank. I'm getting > community fish. Within the first 2 weeks my new tank developed ich, just my > luck. I first used a commercial Ich product for 10 days and the Ich seemed > to grow. 4 days ago, I started using heat and salt and the fish look a lot > better already. I'll be glad when my new tank is settled so I won't bring > home anymore Ich. I hope to share this hobby with you and learn a lot about > planting tanks. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53992	From: wieloszynski	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Frog Pond video

Am new to the group; have a frog pond in back yard here in Middle Tennessee, near Nashville. Wife and I created a music video using the frogs, which can be found on YouTube, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwH5EeyL4k Leave a comment or "like" to let us know what you think. Thanks in advance. Paul Mt. Juliet, TN

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53993	From: harry perry	Date: 9/5/2012
Subject: Paul....Re: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video

I love it. Very well done. Harry ________________________________ From: wieloszynski <wieloszynski@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:49 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video   Am new to the group; have a frog pond in back yard here in Middle Tennessee, near Nashville. Wife and I created a music video using the frogs, which can be found on YouTube, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwH5EeyL4k Leave a comment or "like" to let us know what you think. Thanks in advance. Paul Mt. Juliet, TN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53994	From: joe t	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Newbie to the Group

Hello, Reba: I know you will probably love a planted tank. I always use live plants in my tanks. My strngest advise to you would be to make good use of that quarantine tank. To my thinking, ....I may have misread....you got Ich in your main show tank. You should have quarantined the "new" fish before they wer put into the show tank. Don't forget, the quarantine tank is not only for fish that are ill, but for newbies from the store. This is especially important with a planted tank, since many plants may be (or are) sensitive to salt and medications. Planted aquariums are real picturesue and natural. But having to repace them frequently will soon be a burden on you enthusiasm and you wallet. joe t. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Reba" <reba_curtis@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. My name is Reba and I'm a new member to the group. I had a fish tank for about 20 years, then stopped for the last 10 years. I missed it so I recently started a 45 gallon tank with a 10 gallon hospital tank. In all the years I never had a planted tank so this time I want to try my hand at plants. I don't know anything about planting in a tank. I'm getting community fish. Within the first 2 weeks my new tank developed ich, just my luck. I first used a commercial Ich product for 10 days and the Ich seemed to grow. 4 days ago, I started using heat and salt and the fish look a lot better already. I'll be glad when my new tank is settled so I won't bring home anymore Ich. I hope to share this hobby with you and learn a lot about planting tanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53995	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2012
Subject: Re: Paul....Re: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video

Hi Paul, Excellent-made me laugh! Welcome to the group. John*<o)))< * On 6 September 2012 04:11, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > I love it. Very well done. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: wieloszynski <wieloszynski@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:49 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Frog Pond video > > > � > Am new to the group; have a frog pond in back yard here in Middle > Tennessee, near Nashville. > > Wife and I created a music video using the frogs, which can be found on > YouTube, here: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwH5EeyL4k > > Leave a comment or "like" to let us know what you think. Thanks in advance. > Paul > Mt. Juliet, TN > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53996	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/9/2012
Subject: Using "eggcrate"

Hi---I am curious to see if anyone here has used or knows someone who has used a plastic material called "eggcrate" as the top of their aquarium instead of the standard glass top. I have a 40 gallon saltwater, and the old glass top has the silcone strip breaking apart in the middle. I know the evaporation rate will be higher, but it will keep the fish in, support my T-5 lights and maybe even allow more light than the somewhat clouded old one. I cannot seem to get all the salt creep residue off :( A new glass top ranges from $40-45 from what I've been told...measuring 36x18". I was told I could find the plasic eggcrate stuff at Menards...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53997	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"

I use egg crate, but under the rocks not on top. It would not keep my fish in many of them are small enough to get through. Cyps, caudopunctatus, julidochromis, etc. How much heat does your fixture generate the egg crate is not meant to be directly on the fixtures I don’t think. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kwondrash Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:54 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Using "eggcrate" Hi---I am curious to see if anyone here has used or knows someone who has used a plastic material called "eggcrate" as the top of their aquarium instead of the standard glass top. I have a 40 gallon saltwater, and the old glass top has the silcone strip breaking apart in the middle. I know the evaporation rate will be higher, but it will keep the fish in, support my T-5 lights and maybe even allow more light than the somewhat clouded old one. I cannot seem to get all the salt creep residue off :( A new glass top ranges from $40-45 from what I've been told...measuring 36x18". I was told I could find the plasic eggcrate stuff at Menards... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53998	From: kwondrash	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"

My lights have legs that hold them off them surface of the top, so they would not be direectly on the eggcrate. My saltwater fish are large enough that I don't think they'll get through. I heard the eggcrate only has about 1/2" or so openings.... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I use egg crate, but under the rocks not on top. It would not keep my fish > in many of them are small enough to get through. Cyps, caudopunctatus, > julidochromis, etc. > > > > How much heat does your fixture generate the egg crate is not meant to be > directly on the fixtures I don't think. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kwondrash > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:54 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Using "eggcrate" > > > > > > Hi---I am curious to see if anyone here has used or knows someone who has > used a plastic material called "eggcrate" as the top of their aquarium > instead of the standard glass top. I have a 40 gallon saltwater, and the old > glass top has the silcone strip breaking apart in the middle. > I know the evaporation rate will be higher, but it will keep the fish in, > support my T-5 lights and maybe even allow more light than the somewhat > clouded old one. I cannot seem to get all the salt creep residue off :( > A new glass top ranges from $40-45 from what I've been told...measuring > 36x18". I was told I could find the plasic eggcrate stuff at Menards... > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 53999	From: Brian	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"

You might want to check on the cost of the eggcrate before making up your mind. I seem to remember it being $20+ (still cheaper than the glass top and you could probably get 2 out of one panel) If your original top is glass, I would try vinegar and maybe steel wool or even a razer blade to get the salt creep off. What do you have to loose? Glass is pretty tough and even if it does scratch it might be better than the salt coating as far as light transmission goes. ...Brian in PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54000	From: joe t	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"

Hello, Kwondrash; Yes I have used the "eggcrate" to top my tanks. I must say, though, that I have fresh water tanks. I use it in the summer so the heat build-up would not be so great. I doubt if the saltwater would affect it since it is plastic. Be advised though, that presuming you have your lights on top of the glass cover you are now using, the salt water would probably splash on your lights with the "eggcrate". You are the better judge on if that would be a problem for you. If your fish are not small, they would not be able to jump out. Very small fish MIGHT be able to jump out depending on how high they jump and if their aim is that good to go through one of the little squares. You will be able to tell if the fish have a possibility of fitting through when you see the "eggcrate". Presuming Menards is a housing store of some kind, I am not farmiliar with the name, you can find it in the lighting department. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54001	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/10/2012
Subject: Re: Using "eggcrate"

The dimensions of the eggcrate plastic are 21.88" X 45.84". You'd only get one piece out of it for an 18" X 36" tank. The square openings are 9/16" square. Home Depot has it for $12. Loews probably has it too, and for the same price (or less?). I don't use it for tank covers, but instead, as tank dividers for New World Cichlids that need to be introduced to each other more slowly. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54002	From: rachell7	Date: 9/12/2012
Subject: Re: I have my first baby - fish that is! :)

Hey thanks! But most of what is in my present tank will go into the 20 gallon one Charles! And I know enough to not just dump everything in and expect it to live either! LOL! No, a lot of planning and time will go into setting it up. My biggest problem will be that I would like to put it where the 10 gallon one is now. We bought a breeder's net and it took us 20 minutes to capture the baby fish and place him in it. And my husband watched him while I was out of town for several days,he even named him Rambo, pretty good for a guy who refuses to put his hands in 'fish pee'! He is growing but still too small to release out with the larger ones. Thanks for your advice, and it never hurts to remind people but don't worry, I've lurked enough around here long enough and have made some mistakes so the new tank when it does get set up, it'll be done with a lot of thought and prep work! :) Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Rachell, > Setting up a new tank is a big deal and you > should be aware of some of the problems as well > as the benefits. You will need some of the live > material from the established tank to get the > tank to cycle and new filter and maybe a light as > well. Don't rush into something like this blind. > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > >Thanks Charles! I'll check them out tomorrow > >for a tank and hope to pick something up! Now I > >have another question, if I move the little one > >to a tank of it's own what do I feed it? And > >also what do you suggest to use to move it, I'm > >afraid the net I have will damage or injure it. > > > >OK I am excited and I have asked my husband to > >check the group for me while I'm out of town. > >Thanks in advance for any help! Rachell > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > >> > >> >OK while all of you who are seasoned and > >> >experienced aquarium owners are rolling your > >> >eyes and going OMG and LMAO! I need some advice, > > >this is the first baby fish I have had and I've > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54003	From: Noura	Date: 9/13/2012
Subject: Plants

Hello, I have a type of Cryptocoryne in two of my four tanks. It's growing perfectly and reproduces well in the small 6G. tank (which is near the windows, with one hour of direct sunlight aday, and I rarely turn its light bulbs on). But in the 20 G. the same Cryptocoryne is not doing well. Instead of growing "up" it spreads the leaves horizontally, and it's very light in color, more yellow than green.But the leaves are strong and numerous. All in all, it's not a pretty sight, unlike the ones in the 6 G near the window. Do you think the problem with the 20 G. is too much light, or less light than needed? I have one white bulb, and another pink one over it, they are 60cm fluorescent bulbs. 18 Watts each. The tank is a bow front community tank (livebearers included) with wooden hood, NOT a tall tank. Filters: 1 undergravel filter + 1 internal filter. Thanks! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54004	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Plants

The plant may be perfectly happy, but yes, one that grows up has less light and one that grows flat has more light no need to reach for it. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 7:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Plants Hello, I have a type of Cryptocoryne in two of my four tanks. It's growing perfectly and reproduces well in the small 6G. tank (which is near the windows, with one hour of direct sunlight aday, and I rarely turn its light bulbs on). But in the 20 G. the same Cryptocoryne is not doing well. Instead of growing "up" it spreads the leaves horizontally, and it's very light in color, more yellow than green.But the leaves are strong and numerous. All in all, it's not a pretty sight, unlike the ones in the 6 G near the window. Do you think the problem with the 20 G. is too much light, or less light than needed? I have one white bulb, and another pink one over it, they are 60cm fluorescent bulbs. 18 Watts each. The tank is a bow front community tank (livebearers included) with wooden hood, NOT a tall tank. Filters: 1 undergravel filter + 1 internal filter. Thanks! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54005	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/14/2012
Subject: Re: Plants

Noura, The pink light isn't really doing anything in helping the plant. If this 20 gallon tank isn't near the window either, then the plants are just relying on the one 18 Watt bulb. While Cryptocorynes are low-light plants, you have less than one Watt per gallon. And, while many Crypt species can be low-growing plants under more normal conditions, they shouldn't be yellowish. It would seem as though they're not getting as much light as they really need -- especially if this tank isn't near the window. Also, while the 20 G may not be tall, it's undoubtedly taller than the 6 G tank. The taller the tank, the less light that will penetrate though the water. You need more light on these plants -- but yet not too much. You don't say how long you keep this light on. Keeping it on longer may help, but otherwise, another 18 Watt bulb wouldn't be too much lighting. At leasst then, t would be more controlable and you could always cut the timing back if needed, but at least enough light would reach the leaves. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54006	From: Noura	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Plants

Thanks Ray and Donna, I keep the lights on about 12 hours aday. And the tank is not anywhere near a window. I will buy a new white 18W bulb. Thankfully, it's almost automn here a;nd I don't have to worry about the excess heat that this bulb will cause. I'll try to post two photos of the two tanks, if that helps. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Noura, > > The pink light isn't really doing anything in helping the plant. If this > 20 gallon tank isn't near the window either, then the plants are just relying > on the one 18 Watt bulb. While Cryptocorynes are low-light plants, you > have less than one Watt per gallon. And, while many Crypt species can be > low-growing plants under more normal conditions, they shouldn't be yellowish. It > would seem as though they're not getting as much light as they really need > -- especially if this tank isn't near the window. Also, while the 20 G may > not be tall, it's undoubtedly taller than the 6 G tank. The taller the > tank, the less light that will penetrate though the water. You need more light > on these plants -- but yet not too much. > > You don't say how long you keep this light on. Keeping it on longer may > help, but otherwise, another 18 Watt bulb wouldn't be too much lighting. At > leasst then, t would be more controlable and you could always cut the timing > back if needed, but at least enough light would reach the leaves. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54007	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Plants

I’d reduce the hours/day to 8 hours (10 max) and use a stronger/better “color” bulb to provide usable light. In the US you look for 6700K color temperature (not white). I think in the UK they have 6500K more often. White is 10000K and is not the best choice although better than pink or blue. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Plants Thanks Ray and Donna, I keep the lights on about 12 hours aday. And the tank is not anywhere near a window. I will buy a new white 18W bulb. Thankfully, it's almost automn here a;nd I don't have to worry about the excess heat that this bulb will cause. I'll try to post two photos of the two tanks, if that helps. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Noura, > > The pink light isn't really doing anything in helping the plant. If this > 20 gallon tank isn't near the window either, then the plants are just relying > on the one 18 Watt bulb. While Cryptocorynes are low-light plants, you > have less than one Watt per gallon. And, while many Crypt species can be > low-growing plants under more normal conditions, they shouldn't be yellowish. It > would seem as though they're not getting as much light as they really need > -- especially if this tank isn't near the window. Also, while the 20 G may > not be tall, it's undoubtedly taller than the 6 G tank. The taller the > tank, the less light that will penetrate though the water. You need more light > on these plants -- but yet not too much. > > You don't say how long you keep this light on. Keeping it on longer may > help, but otherwise, another 18 Watt bulb wouldn't be too much lighting. At > leasst then, t would be more controlable and you could always cut the timing > back if needed, but at least enough light would reach the leaves. > > Ray</HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54008	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/15/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.

Hi all, just an update. I put pics in my folder, for anyone interested, of the rocks I put in my tanks from the ruins of the house my great great grandparents built. {soo cool} The bigger white one is the one that didn't pass the vinager test. I coated it with at least 3 coats of spar varnish over the course of a week...[many thanks for that tip] paint, dry for a day, flip, repeat. it's been in there for 5 days and all is well... happy fish still. What else can I coat next to make my own decor.... hmmm...lol. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > I went to a big family reunion on the weekend, and dug out 5 different kinds of rocks from where just the foundation is left, from the house my great, great grandparents built. I really wanted to use all of them, but one of the big ones; that is nice looking, failed the vinegar test. After looking it up, it looks like a type of limestone. > Most of my fish are pretty "neutral" on their feelings about their water. Is there anything that would allow me to still use the rock; short of constantly adding stuff to counteract its effects? > Is there a clear coating that I could apply to it; as a D.I.Y. kind of guy, to make it safe? Anyone done that before with a rock or something else? If not; then it will find a place of honour in our garden. > Thanks. > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54009	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.

Hi Al, You have some nice looking creations there-I particularly like the tank with the blue gravel, what are those fish? John*<o)))< * On 16 September 2012 02:09, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi all, just an update. I put pics in my folder, for anyone interested, of > the rocks I put in my tanks from the ruins of the house my great great > grandparents built. {soo cool} > The bigger white one is the one that didn't pass the vinager test. I > coated it with at least 3 coats of spar varnish over the course of a > week...[many thanks for that tip] paint, dry for a day, flip, repeat. > it's been in there for 5 days and all is well... happy fish still. > What else can I coat next to make my own decor.... hmmm...lol. > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all. > > I went to a big family reunion on the weekend, and dug out 5 different > kinds of rocks from where just the foundation is left, from the house my > great, great grandparents built. I really wanted to use all of them, but > one of the big ones; that is nice looking, failed the vinegar test. After > looking it up, it looks like a type of limestone. > > Most of my fish are pretty "neutral" on their feelings about their > water. Is there anything that would allow me to still use the rock; short > of constantly adding stuff to counteract its effects? > > Is there a clear coating that I could apply to it; as a D.I.Y. kind of > guy, to make it safe? Anyone done that before with a rock or something > else? If not; then it will find a place of honour in our garden. > > Thanks. > > Al. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54010	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/18/2012
Subject: Re: Who rocks in this group?......I guess I do.

Thanks John. Much obliged. They are rummy nose tetras. I think they are the best schooling tetras I have ever seen. I added a pic of the whole tank to my folder. I should go through the pic section and look at the tanks of the frequent posters. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > You have some nice looking creations there-I particularly like the tank > with the blue gravel, what are those fish? > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 16 September 2012 02:09, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi all, just an update. I put pics in my folder, for anyone interested, of > > the rocks I put in my tanks from the ruins of the house my great great > > grandparents built. {soo cool} > > The bigger white one is the one that didn't pass the vinager test. I > > coated it with at least 3 coats of spar varnish over the course of a > > week...[many thanks for that tip] paint, dry for a day, flip, repeat. > > it's been in there for 5 days and all is well... happy fish still. > > What else can I coat next to make my own decor.... hmmm...lol. > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all. > > > I went to a big family reunion on the weekend, and dug out 5 different > > kinds of rocks from where just the foundation is left, from the house my > > great, great grandparents built. I really wanted to use all of them, but > > one of the big ones; that is nice looking, failed the vinegar test. After > > looking it up, it looks like a type of limestone. > > > Most of my fish are pretty "neutral" on their feelings about their > > water. Is there anything that would allow me to still use the rock; short > > of constantly adding stuff to counteract its effects? > > > Is there a clear coating that I could apply to it; as a D.I.Y. kind of > > guy, to make it safe? Anyone done that before with a rock or something > > else? If not; then it will find a place of honour in our garden. > > > Thanks. > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54011	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Salt water tank

I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in a fish tank, LOL. My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 gallon over. There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing his fish somehow, LOL. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54012	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/19/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

That's not what we mean by, "testing the waters" in this group Amber. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > a fish tank, LOL. > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > gallon over. > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing > his fish somehow, LOL. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54013	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Amber, Best of luck in going to marine fish again. Since you've maintained salt water fish in the past, there no reason to think you can't do it successfully again. That the cycle has evened off with this fish doing better, it looks like you're over the hurdle. Any problems you start to see, we have Dawn to help you through them. While fingers are allowable in the tank occasionally when needed, toes are a no-no (LOL). Fish might even find them objectionable < G >. Wishing you all the success with this one. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54014	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created out of concrete mixes. Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid any of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the exception of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on their own and they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals (which I am assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy about which ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, and the smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that will work together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe and still allow room for growth. What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help determine what corals you can add. You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is vital to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test calcium levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for proper growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. Target area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure this is where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before you attempt to add your animals. The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to cure in the tank before adding any animals. A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, skimmer, etc? Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > a fish tank, LOL. > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > gallon over. > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing > his fish somehow, LOL. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54015	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

The tank is a 29 gallon. Thanks for the tips on the crushed coral not being good for some critters, I will remember that. What about hermit crabs? I wasn't planning on getting any anemones just because they tend to kill some corals, and I'd really like to get some soft corals at some point. I have CFL (I think they are 90 watt bulbs) daylight spectrum lighting (aprox 6700K), right now I just have 2 running but the fixture has 6 bulbs in it total. Since I only have a few tiny critters living on my live rock and some grass, I figured I didn't need super bright lighting yet and only have 2 bulbs running for now. I don't have a protein skimmer, but it's something I plan on purchasing ASAP. I would somehow like to connect the 2 tanks (48 gallon and my 29 gallon), perhaps with a water bridge or something similar. I moved about a 1/4 of the cycled gravel from my boyfriend's tank into mine, as well as his one chunk of live rock and his one clown fish. I also set his filter up on my tank and added a 2nd filter of my own. I will update more later, have to go back to work. Amber On 9/20/2012 9:53 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb > of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can > get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority > of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. > I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, > even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. > Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. > Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but > Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't > overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed > filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created > out of concrete mixes. > > Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid any > of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand > sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling > fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of > the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to > live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of > their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef > tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it > also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. > > Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the exception > of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on their own and > they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals (which I am > assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy about which > ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, and the > smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that will work > together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe and still > allow room for growth. > > What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help > determine what corals you can add. > > You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is vital > to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test calcium > levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for proper > growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. Target > area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure this is > where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before you > attempt to add your animals. > > The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the > "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to > happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at > a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the > longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing > live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock > is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, > from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should > expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different > conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into > the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to > cure in the tank before adding any animals. > > A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, > including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is > normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so > don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this > will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank > will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the > algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. > > Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, > skimmer, etc? > > Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help > you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) > > Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > a fish tank, LOL. > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > gallon over. > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about > killing > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54016	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding animals also makes the process easier. I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to actually be able to see what I'm referring to. I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that happen for you. I'll be back later. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > The tank is a 29 gallon. Thanks for the tips on the crushed coral not > being good for some critters, I will remember that. What about hermit crabs? > I wasn't planning on getting any anemones just because they tend to kill > some corals, and I'd really like to get some soft corals at some point. > I have CFL (I think they are 90 watt bulbs) daylight spectrum lighting > (aprox 6700K), right now I just have 2 running but the fixture has 6 > bulbs in it total. Since I only have a few tiny critters living on my > live rock and some grass, I figured I didn't need super bright lighting > yet and only have 2 bulbs running for now. > I don't have a protein skimmer, but it's something I plan on purchasing > ASAP. I would somehow like to connect the 2 tanks (48 gallon and my 29 > gallon), perhaps with a water bridge or something similar. > I moved about a 1/4 of the cycled gravel from my boyfriend's tank into > mine, as well as his one chunk of live rock and his one clown fish. I > also set his filter up on my tank and added a 2nd filter of my own. > > I will update more later, have to go back to work. > > Amber > > On 9/20/2012 9:53 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb > > of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can > > get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority > > of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. > > I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, > > even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. > > Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. > > Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but > > Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't > > overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed > > filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created > > out of concrete mixes. > > > > Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid any > > of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand > > sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling > > fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of > > the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to > > live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of > > their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef > > tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it > > also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. > > > > Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the exception > > of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on their own and > > they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals (which I am > > assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy about which > > ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, and the > > smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that will work > > together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe and still > > allow room for growth. > > > > What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help > > determine what corals you can add. > > > > You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is vital > > to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test calcium > > levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for proper > > growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. Target > > area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure this is > > where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before you > > attempt to add your animals. > > > > The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the > > "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to > > happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at > > a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the > > longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing > > live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock > > is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, > > from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should > > expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different > > conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into > > the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to > > cure in the tank before adding any animals. > > > > A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, > > including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is > > normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so > > don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this > > will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank > > will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the > > algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. > > > > Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, > > skimmer, etc? > > > > Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help > > you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) > > > > Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > > a fish tank, LOL. > > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > > gallon over. > > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about > > killing > > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54017	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice thought to have the tanks connected. Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just have to find it, LOL. Thanks Amber On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > animals also makes the process easier. > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > happen for you. > > I'll be back later. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54018	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/20/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Thanks Ray, I've actually never had a marine tank before, so this is a new experience for me, I might be asking Dawn a lot of questions in the future. LOL. I'm excited to try something new though. Amber On 9/20/2012 4:15 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Amber, > > Best of luck in going to marine fish again. Since you've maintained salt > water fish in the past, there no reason to think you can't do it > successfully > again. That the cycle has evened off with this fish doing better, it > looks > like you're over the hurdle. Any problems you start to see, we have Dawn > to help you through them. While fingers are allowable in the tank > occasionally when needed, toes are a no-no (LOL). Fish might even find > them > objectionable < G >. Wishing you all the success with this one. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54019	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Ok, the lighting makes more sense now. Can you get a photo of it for me? That would help a lot. What you will need for spectrum will depend on what corals you decide you want to keep. Be careful not to get too many, as they will grow and spread quickly. You might also want to start looking into an outlet for coral frags BEFORE you purchase even your first one. As they grow and reproduce they will quickly overrun the tank and crowed each other out, leaving you with dead/dying corals instead of those that thrive. Also before you order even your fist coral, do the research about what is involved in fragging each type you want to get, as this will be important to know to keep your tank healthy. You may find that some are a little more work and difficult to frag than what you want to deal with and that might help you decide which ones to get and which to avoid. Each one is a little different when it comes to frags, and while some are very easy, others can be quite difficult to do without killing the whole thing. If it were me I would still consider getting rid of that crushed coral, especially if that is 50% of the substrate. Crushed coral and reef don't mix real well in an aquarium and will leave you with many up and coming problems and challenges over time. The filters you are running... the Rena is a good one, however, the magnum will clog up quickly. That is one filter I would never use on a saltwater tank, also because the parts are not really designed to withstand the salinity for any length of time. A sump is not mandatory but it does offer some options that make it much easier to maintain over time as the tank matures. Personally, I won't do a saltwater tank without a sump anymore, for that very reason. Hang on skimmers are not real good/effective and can be difficult to get them set properly. A sump would offer you a much easier solution to setting up a good skimmer, which is important for a reef tank. As surface proteins begin to collect on the water's surface they can quickly suffocate everything in the tank. This can be resolved by manually skimming the tanks surface with paper towels, but this can be messy and time consuming. I am not fond of using canister filters on saltwater tanks overall... not just due to lack of circulation, but also because all of those same things I mentioned will grow in a bridge/tunnel will eventually also begin collecting and growing in a canister filter too... which means more maintenance than you'd be used to doing in a freshwater tank. Spray bars can clog quickly as well, if not from coraline algae growth (because it should sit above the water's surface) but more because of salt creep. This can also be a pain and a lot of work to keep up with. I've run a number of different canister filters on saltwater tanks over the yrs and always ended up changing over to sump before I was done just because of the hassles involved and how often I was forced to clean out or mess with the filter to keep it functioning properly. And yes, this includes Eheim, which is the only canister really designed for saltwater. I have also worked with HOB filters on saltwater tanks, and honestly, if given the choice, I prefer HOB to canisters if a sump isn't possible. This brings me to my next warning/precaution for you. Please be sure your walls, carpeting, stand, and everything within 2 ft of the tank in any direction are protected from salt creep. Salt creep is the crystallized salt that will collect on any surface that is in any way touched by the saltwater and also has any air flow to it where it can/will dry. There is no way to stop it from happening and no way to avoid it no matter how well covered the tank is. It will also collect on the hoses to your filters where they come and leave the tank as well as around O rings and any other part of the filter where condensation, spray, etc. will happen. Salt creep is extremely damaging to most anything it touches aside from glass and silicone. It will eat away dry wall, carpeting, weaken wood (stands), cause wrought iron stands to rust, and if it gets up into a light fixture can cause a fire hazard. Salt is a great conductor of electricity. Please be careful. I am hoping you have a glass cover on this tank? That will need to be cleaned regularly, at least once/wk if not more to prevent the cover from collecting salt deposits from the spray bars of your filters. If the covers are not kept clean all the time this will prevent enough light from penetrating through the tank for the corals and live rock. When I set up my 75 gallon reef tank this past year I laid thick plastic on the floor and used duct tape to secure it with about a 1 ft span around all sides of the tank. I also had my husband put up large pieces of thin plexi on the wall behind the tank and then I taped the plastic on the floor to the bottom of the plexi for protection. I have to wipe down that plexi and plastic regularly, which is a good example of what kind of exposure my wall and carpet would have had to the salt creep and how much damage it would have caused to my house. The other thing I wanted to ask is what you plan to use for a quarantine tank? While quarantine is important in freshwater, it is vital in saltwater, especially with a reef. Because most saltwater animals are still wild caught and because there are so many potential things that can be brought into a saltwater tank via live rock, corals, fish, other inverts, etc. to not have one puts your main tank at total risk anytime you add any animal to it. Saltwater inverts are not able to tolerate medications and then there is also the problem that live rock will absorb medications, making it virtually impossible to treat a reef tank with most medications safely. The last zoanthid frags I purchased online came in 1/2 dead as well as bringing flat worms with them... and these quickly infested my tanks. I lost all but 1 of the zoanthid frags in quarantine due to the flatworm infestation. I was ok with it in my main tank without the zoanthids because it's a food source for my mandarin, however, getting rid of flatworms in a tank is extremely difficult and they can cause an array of problems, especially for a beginner. This is just one example of a potential issue that happens too often to those who forget or think they can bypass quarantine. Even when prepared, these things sometimes can't be avoided. There are too many potential issues to name off in just a simple post, but I wanted to be sure to warn you so you can work on a quarantine tank right away before you get too involved in ordering animals for your tank. Everything except crabs, snails, and shrimp, should spend at least 4 wks in quarantine before attempting to put them into your main tank. If you need help on an easy way to set up a saltwater quarantine let me know and I can walk you through it. If your main tank is 29 gallons I would suggest a quarantine tank of 15 - 20 gallons to suit your needs. It should be large enough to accommodate your largest fish for up to a month at a time or a combination of all of your fish for up to a month if needed. If fish get sick they can be treated safely in quarantine without worry of risking the reef to the medications. Corals have zero tolerance to most meds. (I can think of only 1 exception that corals can handle) Also remember that stocking a saltwater tank is not like stocking a freshwater tank. Oxygen levels differ in saltwater and the physical needs of the fish differ as well. That tomato clown you currently have means you are going to be limited to maybe 1 other smallish size fish for a total fish population. Everything else for animals will be restricted to inverts (crabs, shrimp, snails, starfish, etc). Tomato clowns can be quite aggressive and territorial, especially once mature, so be careful if you decide to add another fish. Be very selective and ask if you're at all in doubt. (just an example of their aggression, we kept a tomato clown in a 92 gallon tank with an adult snowflake eel at the store in one of our display tanks... whenever we did maintenance on the tank the eel would usually hide but the clown would attack anyone who put their hands in the water.. and yes, it hurts to get bit.) Let me know what else I can do to help. I'd like to see you skip past all of the easy beginner mistakes and not have to learn the hard way, which is expensive as well as heart breaking. I've been keeping saltwater tanks for about 20 yrs now, my husband for about 25+ yrs. so if there's a mistake to be made, it's likely we or our customers have made it already, lol. The best advice I can offer to anyone starting out with saltwater is to forget all of the rules of freshwater and learn everything new from the start. It's not harder to do if you understand it, but it is very different. After the first year when the tank is established (it takes that long to be considered established) saltwater is actually less work than freshwater as long as you stay on top of it and don't let anything go. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > thought to have the tanks connected. > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > have to find it, LOL. > > Thanks > Amber > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > > happen for you. > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54020	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Hi Amber, With your mentioning of the 125 gallon having been used as a marine aquarium before being converted to freshwater, without thinking any further I just asssumed you had salt water before. But then, only after saying you never had marine fish before, it occurred to me that you bought the tank used and it was a salt water tank by the previous owner. So then, you are new at this. Wish I could help you more, but the only experience I've had with salt water fish was when one of my friends' dentist was getting rid of hos salt water fish and gave me his Panther Grouper. As he had let his tank go with little maintenance, the pH was down to 6.0. I tried slowly bringing the pH up after I got it, but to no avail, and it didn't last very long after that. You're in good hands though, with Dawn helping you in this. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54021	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Hi Amber,   Yes, its been a while.  A favor?  Is there any way to get some pictures of this unit?  I think Dawn would benfit too?   bill in pa --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice thought to have the tanks connected. Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just have to find it, LOL. Thanks Amber On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > animals also makes the process easier. > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > happen for you. > > I'll be back later. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54022	From: joe t	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Hi Dawn: I am not into saltwater aquariums at all. At my age, I don't think I am going to start now. LOL. But I do enjoy looking at them. Thay are beautiful when kept by one who knows what they're doing, and even more so, CARES about what they are doing. Enough said about that. I didn't mean to write a speech. :0) Let me ask what may be a dumb question, but in fresh water I (we) never used the term "live rock." What is live rock? joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created out of concrete mixes. > > Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid any of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. > > Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the exception of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on their own and they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals (which I am assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy about which ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, and the smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that will work together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe and still allow room for growth. > > What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help determine what corals you can add. > > You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is vital to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test calcium levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for proper growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. Target area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure this is where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before you attempt to add your animals. > > The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to cure in the tank before adding any animals. > > A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. > > Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, skimmer, etc? > > Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) > > Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > a fish tank, LOL. > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > gallon over. > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > Amber > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54023	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Thanks for all the advice, I'll respond more later when I have time, have to get to work in a few minutes. We are planning on moving the 48 gallon bowfront over to my place and set it back up for the main saltwater tank, the 29 gallon was more of a temporary housing until we can get the 48 gallon clean enough to move. If I'm more doomed using this tank because of my crushed coral/sand substrate then perhaps when we move the 48 gallon over I should consider using this 29 gallon as a Q tank instead and just take all the substrate out except some of the sand from the 48 gallon? Just an idea. I have 3 separate 10 gallon tanks that are empty that could also be possibly used for Q tanks if needed. I have a variety of filters, I have HOB's and even an eheim (one of the deluxe canister ones with the built in heater inside), but the eheim is currently running on my 125 gallon tank, so I would have to work a bit to get things switched around. Amber On 9/21/2012 1:59 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Ok, the lighting makes more sense now. Can you get a photo of it for > me? That would help a lot. What you will need for spectrum will depend > on what corals you decide you want to keep. Be careful not to get too > many, as they will grow and spread quickly. You might also want to > start looking into an outlet for coral frags BEFORE you purchase even > your first one. As they grow and reproduce they will quickly overrun > the tank and crowed each other out, leaving you with dead/dying corals > instead of those that thrive. Also before you order even your fist > coral, do the research about what is involved in fragging each type > you want to get, as this will be important to know to keep your tank > healthy. You may find that some are a little more work and difficult > to frag than what you want to deal with and that might help you decide > which ones to get and which to avoid. Each one is a little different > when it comes to frags, and while some are very easy, others can be > quite difficult to do without killing the whole thing. > > If it were me I would still consider getting rid of that crushed > coral, especially if that is 50% of the substrate. Crushed coral and > reef don't mix real well in an aquarium and will leave you with many > up and coming problems and challenges over time. > > The filters you are running... the Rena is a good one, however, the > magnum will clog up quickly. That is one filter I would never use on a > saltwater tank, also because the parts are not really designed to > withstand the salinity for any length of time. A sump is not mandatory > but it does offer some options that make it much easier to maintain > over time as the tank matures. Personally, I won't do a saltwater tank > without a sump anymore, for that very reason. Hang on skimmers are not > real good/effective and can be difficult to get them set properly. A > sump would offer you a much easier solution to setting up a good > skimmer, which is important for a reef tank. As surface proteins begin > to collect on the water's surface they can quickly suffocate > everything in the tank. This can be resolved by manually skimming the > tanks surface with paper towels, but this can be messy and time > consuming. I am not fond of using canister filters on saltwater tanks > overall... not just due to lack of circulation, but also because all > of those same things I mentioned will grow in a bridge/tunnel will > eventually also begin collecting and growing in a canister filter > too... which means more maintenance than you'd be used to doing in a > freshwater tank. Spray bars can clog quickly as well, if not from > coraline algae growth (because it should sit above the water's > surface) but more because of salt creep. This can also be a pain and a > lot of work to keep up with. I've run a number of different canister > filters on saltwater tanks over the yrs and always ended up changing > over to sump before I was done just because of the hassles involved > and how often I was forced to clean out or mess with the filter to > keep it functioning properly. And yes, this includes Eheim, which is > the only canister really designed for saltwater. > > I have also worked with HOB filters on saltwater tanks, and honestly, > if given the choice, I prefer HOB to canisters if a sump isn't possible. > > This brings me to my next warning/precaution for you. Please be sure > your walls, carpeting, stand, and everything within 2 ft of the tank > in any direction are protected from salt creep. Salt creep is the > crystallized salt that will collect on any surface that is in any way > touched by the saltwater and also has any air flow to it where it > can/will dry. There is no way to stop it from happening and no way to > avoid it no matter how well covered the tank is. It will also collect > on the hoses to your filters where they come and leave the tank as > well as around O rings and any other part of the filter where > condensation, spray, etc. will happen. Salt creep is extremely > damaging to most anything it touches aside from glass and silicone. It > will eat away dry wall, carpeting, weaken wood (stands), cause wrought > iron stands to rust, and if it gets up into a light fixture can cause > a fire hazard. Salt is a great conductor of electricity. Please be > careful. I am hoping you have a glass cover on this tank? That will > need to be cleaned regularly, at least once/wk if not more to prevent > the cover from collecting salt deposits from the spray bars of your > filters. If the covers are not kept clean all the time this will > prevent enough light from penetrating through the tank for the corals > and live rock. > > When I set up my 75 gallon reef tank this past year I laid thick > plastic on the floor and used duct tape to secure it with about a 1 ft > span around all sides of the tank. I also had my husband put up large > pieces of thin plexi on the wall behind the tank and then I taped the > plastic on the floor to the bottom of the plexi for protection. I have > to wipe down that plexi and plastic regularly, which is a good example > of what kind of exposure my wall and carpet would have had to the salt > creep and how much damage it would have caused to my house. > > The other thing I wanted to ask is what you plan to use for a > quarantine tank? While quarantine is important in freshwater, it is > vital in saltwater, especially with a reef. Because most saltwater > animals are still wild caught and because there are so many potential > things that can be brought into a saltwater tank via live rock, > corals, fish, other inverts, etc. to not have one puts your main tank > at total risk anytime you add any animal to it. Saltwater inverts are > not able to tolerate medications and then there is also the problem > that live rock will absorb medications, making it virtually impossible > to treat a reef tank with most medications safely. The last zoanthid > frags I purchased online came in 1/2 dead as well as bringing flat > worms with them... and these quickly infested my tanks. I lost all but > 1 of the zoanthid frags in quarantine due to the flatworm infestation. > I was ok with it in my main tank without the zoanthids because it's a > food source for my mandarin, however, getting rid of flatworms in a > tank is extremely difficult and they can cause an array of problems, > especially for a beginner. This is just one example of a potential > issue that happens too often to those who forget or think they can > bypass quarantine. Even when prepared, these things sometimes can't be > avoided. There are too many potential issues to name off in just a > simple post, but I wanted to be sure to warn you so you can work on a > quarantine tank right away before you get too involved in ordering > animals for your tank. Everything except crabs, snails, and shrimp, > should spend at least 4 wks in quarantine before attempting to put > them into your main tank. If you need help on an easy way to set up a > saltwater quarantine let me know and I can walk you through it. If > your main tank is 29 gallons I would suggest a quarantine tank of 15 - > 20 gallons to suit your needs. It should be large enough to > accommodate your largest fish for up to a month at a time or a > combination of all of your fish for up to a month if needed. If fish > get sick they can be treated safely in quarantine without worry of > risking the reef to the medications. Corals have zero tolerance to > most meds. (I can think of only 1 exception that corals can handle) > Also remember that stocking a saltwater tank is not like stocking a > freshwater tank. Oxygen levels differ in saltwater and the physical > needs of the fish differ as well. That tomato clown you currently have > means you are going to be limited to maybe 1 other smallish size fish > for a total fish population. Everything else for animals will be > restricted to inverts (crabs, shrimp, snails, starfish, etc). Tomato > clowns can be quite aggressive and territorial, especially once > mature, so be careful if you decide to add another fish. Be very > selective and ask if you're at all in doubt. (just an example of their > aggression, we kept a tomato clown in a 92 gallon tank with an adult > snowflake eel at the store in one of our display tanks... whenever we > did maintenance on the tank the eel would usually hide but the clown > would attack anyone who put their hands in the water.. and yes, it > hurts to get bit.) > > Let me know what else I can do to help. I'd like to see you skip past > all of the easy beginner mistakes and not have to learn the hard way, > which is expensive as well as heart breaking. I've been keeping > saltwater tanks for about 20 yrs now, my husband for about 25+ yrs. so > if there's a mistake to be made, it's likely we or our customers have > made it already, lol. The best advice I can offer to anyone starting > out with saltwater is to forget all of the rules of freshwater and > learn everything new from the start. It's not harder to do if you > understand it, but it is very different. After the first year when the > tank is established (it takes that long to be considered established) > saltwater is actually less work than freshwater as long as you stay on > top of it and don't let anything go. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even > more > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > Thanks > > Amber > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > bulbs as > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > info is > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you > have > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > can be > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface > may > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are > set > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > adding > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > able to > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > Things > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If > you > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > established > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask > them > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see > that > > > happen for you. > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54024	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just in case. Amber On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some pictures of > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > bill in pa > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > thought to have the tanks connected. > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > have to find it, LOL. > > Thanks > Amber > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > > happen for you. > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > Dawn > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54025	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Live rock is dead (hard) corals that have new organisms growing on them (such as algae and plants and some soft corals), they help filter the water much like nitrifying bacteria does inside of your filter in a freshwater tank. Think of it as a rock that's also a biological filter inside your tank. Amber On 9/21/2012 5:57 AM, joe t wrote: > > Hi Dawn: > > I am not into saltwater aquariums at all. At my age, I don't think I > am going to start now. LOL. But I do enjoy looking at them. Thay are > beautiful when kept by one who knows what they're doing, and even more > so, CARES about what they are doing. > > Enough said about that. I didn't mean to write a speech. :0) > > Let me ask what may be a dumb question, but in fresh water I (we) > never used the term "live rock." What is live rock? > > joe t > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb > of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can > get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority > of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. > I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, > even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. > Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. > Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but > Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't > overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed > filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created > out of concrete mixes. > > > > Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid > any of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand > sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling > fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of > the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to > live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of > their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef > tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it > also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. > > > > Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the > exception of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on > their own and they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals > (which I am assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy > about which ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, > and the smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that > will work together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe > and still allow room for growth. > > > > What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help > determine what corals you can add. > > > > You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is > vital to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test > calcium levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for > proper growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. > Target area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure > this is where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before > you attempt to add your animals. > > > > The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the > "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to > happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at > a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the > longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing > live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock > is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, > from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should > expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different > conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into > the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to > cure in the tank before adding any animals. > > > > A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, > including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is > normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so > don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this > will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank > will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the > algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. > > > > Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, > skimmer, etc? > > > > Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help > you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) > > > > Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> > wrote: > > > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my > toes in > > > a fish tank, LOL. > > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in > a 48 > > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move > his 48 > > > gallon over. > > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his > new > > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of > live > > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we > end > > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and > in my > > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the > gravel. So > > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about > killing > > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54026	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Correct Ray, it was a saltwater tank before I purchased it used. I'm not sure if it was a reef tank or not, it came with some live rock and of course the crushed coral/sand substrate and the canister filter, and a sump (which I gave away). Was a great buy for only $225 for a 125 gallon tank+stand and accessories. Amber On 9/21/2012 2:41 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > With your mentioning of the 125 gallon having been used as a marine > aquarium before being converted to freshwater, without thinking any > further I just > asssumed you had salt water before. But then, only after saying you never > had marine fish before, it occurred to me that you bought the tank > used and > it was a salt water tank by the previous owner. So then, you are new at > this. > > Wish I could help you more, but the only experience I've had with salt > water fish was when one of my friends' dentist was getting rid of hos > salt water > fish and gave me his Panther Grouper. As he had let his tank go with > little maintenance, the pH was down to 6.0. I tried slowly bringing > the pH up > after I got it, but to no avail, and it didn't last very long after that. > You're in good hands though, with Dawn helping you in this. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54027	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Joe t, Amber is partially correct about live rock. The thing I want to clarify is that not all live rock is dead coral... there are many different types of rock that qualify as live rock. Live rock is a porous rock that comes from the ocean, and yes, unless someone attempts to make it artificially with cement (bad idea) the live rock we see in the stores is collected from the wild... miles out off shore (so nobody gets the idea to go collect their own as that isn't safe or legal) where the pollution levels are not a factor due to the depth of the water and the distance from shorelines. A permit is needed to collect it and that applies all around the world, and one reason the expense is so high is because each collector has a strict limit on how much they can take from a given area each year. This is heavily regulated and monitored. Along with the organisms that Amber mentioned, live rock is porous enough that it works much the way filter media works in a freshwater aquarium, it serves as surface area for nitrifying and in many cases, denitrifying bacteria as well. There are different densities of live rock which account for its quality. The more dense the rock the less of a filtering job it can do in the aquarium, and vice versa. (this is due to the amount of surface area available to the bacteria) The term "live rock" refers to rock that is collected and kept wet and not allowed to dry out, or "base rock" (which is dried live rock) which is "seeded" with the organisms and bacteria typically using live sand and other cured live rock that already contain these organisms and bacteria. Curing of base rock to make it live rock is a somewhat lengthy process and typically takes months to accomplish. Adding all base rock to a new saltwater aquarium means a much longer cycling period to allow the rock to cure directly in the aquarium, not something that should be done with animals in the tank. Saltwater environments rely much more heavily on biological filtration than mechanical or chemical, which is more common in freshwater. The nitrogen cycle tends to take longer in a marine tank vs a freshwater tank because of the many stages a new tank will go through, such as the algae growth I mentioned to Amber in a previous post, as well as the difference in how the bacteria and various other organisms function in saltwater. Any time live rock is moved from one environment to another, (even 2 tanks that sit side by side) a period of "die off" has to be expected, which is where the various organisms and algaes contained in and on the rock will die due to the change of water chemistry, temp, etc. This die off will raise ammonia levels, triggering either the beginning of the nitrogen cycle in some cases (food for the bacteria) or a mini cycle in a more established environment. For this reason it is always safest to put the majority of rock into the tank before adding animals and letting the tank cycle and stabilize for a period of weeks until the cycle is complete. Adding rock to an established tank with animals should be done slowly and in small amounts at a time, spaced so as to let each smaller piece catch up and fully cure before adding more. This helps to avoid any major problems in the water chemistry that will harm the animals. Marine animals are much more sensitive to environmental changes and changes in water chemistry than most freshwater fishes are. I hope this helps to explain live rock, what it is as well as it's function. If you have more questions please feel free to ask. There are many people who fear saltwater tanks because they have heard it is "harder" to keep. That is a myth, provided the person understands the environment and can exercise patience during set up, doesn't over stock the tank, and keeps up with regular maintenance. In all reality, once established (about 1 yr after set up is complete) a marine tank is actually less work to care for than freshwater if it is done correctly... so I enjoy helping to get the info out there and offer help to anyone who wishes to try their hand at a saltwater tank. Education and patience are the keys to success. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn: > > I am not into saltwater aquariums at all. At my age, I don't think I am going to start now. LOL. But I do enjoy looking at them. Thay are beautiful when kept by one who knows what they're doing, and even more so, CARES about what they are doing. > > Enough said about that. I didn't mean to write a speech. :0) > > Let me ask what may be a dumb question, but in fresh water I (we) never used the term "live rock." What is live rock? > > joe t > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > What size is this new tank? On average it is usually figured as 1 lb of live rock per gallon of tank size, but the more live rock you can get in there the healthier the tank will be. In saltwater the majority of your filtration is going to come from your substrate and live rock. I can also tell you that it DOES pay to get good quality live rock, even if that means buying it a bit at a time due to the expense. Quality live rock should be lighter weight (less dense) and porous. Marshall Island live rock is one of the best if you can get it, but Fiji live rock is also pretty good. Branch rock is very dense so don't overdo on that stuff if you find it. It won't offer you the needed filtration, and avoid claims of "homemade" live rock that is created out of concrete mixes. > > > > Since you have crushed coral in the tank it would be wise to avoid any of the bottom feeding/sand sifting animals such as gobies, sand sifting starfish, etc. and the same applies for bottom dwelling fishes... the crushed coral can easily damage the mouths and gills of the gobies and etc. and it's too sharp for the starfish and etc. to live in. This also applies to nassarius snails that spend most of their time under the substrate. I never add crushed coral to a reef tank because there are too many animals that can't handle it and it also doesn't offer as good of a filtration bed as just sand alone. > > > > Other things to avoid in a small tank are anemones with the exception of rock anemones since they don't move around as much on their own and they don't get real big. If you intend to add corals (which I am assuming since you said reef tank) be careful and choosy about which ones you mix, they are not all compatible with each other, and the smaller the tank the harder it can be to find the ones that will work together and still be spaced enough to keep them all safe and still allow room for growth. > > > > What kind of lighting do you have over the tank? That will help determine what corals you can add. > > > > You didn't mention your specific gravity/salinity level? That is vital to a healthy fish and healthy everything. And be sure to test calcium levels regularly since all of the animals rely on calcium for proper growth and body function. Too high is just as bad as too low. Target area for calcium levels in a reef tank is 400 - 450. Be sure this is where it needs to be and stable for at least a few wks before you attempt to add your animals. > > > > The only other thing I can think to warn about at this point is the "die off" when adding new/more live rock to the tank. Expect this to happen EVERY time you add new pieces of rock. The more rock you add at a time the higher the ammonia levels will spike and that means the longer it will take for the tank to catch up in way of cycling. Curing live rock in another tank or vat will not avoid die off once the rock is moved to your tank, and the more change there is in conditions, from temp to lighting, to salinity, etc. the more die off you should expect. This happens any time the rock is moved to different conditions. For this reason you should work to get as much rock into the tank as possible and give it time (a couple of wks minimum) to cure in the tank before adding any animals. > > > > A new saltwater tank will go through various stages of algae growth, including a period of cyano bacteria in most situations. This is normal and will subside on it's own during the cycling process, so don't panic. Don't attempt to fix it with large water changes as this will only prolong it, not get rid of it. The average saltwater tank will take about 8 wks to fully cycle and get through the worst of the algae stages, some can take as long as 12 wks. This, too, is normal. > > > > Can you list the various different equipment you are using? Filter, skimmer, etc? > > > > Be sure to post some photos of your tank. That will help us to help you and I know I would enjoy seeing the photos! :-) > > > > Best of luck to you and please post if you need help. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > > a fish tank, LOL. > > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > > gallon over. > > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing > > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54028	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just in case. > > Amber > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some pictures of > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > Thanks > > Amber > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > > > happen for you. > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54029	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having a time issue with work.   bill in pa --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot.  :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just in case. > > Amber > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > Yes, its been a while.  A favor?  Is there any way to get some pictures of > > this unit?  I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one that > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece that > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get some of > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say it's at > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater tank. > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do that > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I also > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need even more > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the powerheads > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just fine. > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > Thanks > > Amber > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and bulbs as > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the info is > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what is off > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what you have > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe (not > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This can be > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need to add > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will settle to > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the surface may > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you are set > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start adding > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be able to > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get up in > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. Things > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. If you > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an established > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, ask them > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to see that > > > happen for you. > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54030	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/21/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. Anyways. I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and one of the light fixture. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list Amber On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > a time issue with work. > > bill in pa > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > in case. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > pictures of > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one > that > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece > that > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > some of > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > it's at > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > tank. > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do > that > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I > also > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > even more > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > powerheads > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > fine. > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > bulbs as > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > info is > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > is off > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > you have > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe > (not > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > can be > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > to add > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > settle to > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > surface may > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > are set > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > adding > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > able to > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > up in > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > Things > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > If you > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > established > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > ask them > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > see that > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54031	From: bill 1433	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Hi Amber,   I hate to ask because I know your jammed for time with work but whenever you can, please more pictures of the fixture?  I am especially interested in what those bulbs are being screwed into, the fixture itself.   Thanks again,   bill in pa --- On Sat, 9/22/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 2:01 AM Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. Anyways. I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and one of the light fixture. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list Amber On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > a time issue with work. > > bill in pa > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot.  :-) > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > in case. > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > Yes, its been a while.  A favor?  Is there any way to get some > pictures of > > > this unit?  I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one > that > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece > that > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > some of > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > it's at > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > tank. > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do > that > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I > also > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > even more > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > powerheads > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > fine. > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > bulbs as > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > info is > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > is off > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > you have > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe > (not > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > can be > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > to add > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > settle to > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > surface may > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > are set > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > adding > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > able to > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > up in > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > Things > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > If you > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > established > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > ask them > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > see that > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54032	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

It was made out of 2 bathroom vanity light fixtures (both with 3 light sockets), it was mounted to a board. I will get some more pictures of it today. Amber On 9/22/2012 3:45 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > I hate to ask because I know your jammed for time with work > but whenever you can, please more pictures of the fixture? I am > especially interested in what those bulbs are being screwed into, > the fixture itself. > > Thanks again, > > bill in pa > > --- On Sat, 9/22/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, September 22, 2012, 2:01 AM > > Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone > when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. > Anyways. > I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and one of > the light fixture. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list > > Amber > > On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > > a time issue with work. > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com> > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > > in case. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > > pictures of > > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 > watts, > > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one > > that > > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs > (6700K), not > > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to > freshwater > > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece > > that > > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > > some of > > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our > local > > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll > probably > > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as > I will > > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > > it's at > > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > > tank. > > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do > > that > > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one > that came > > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so > I no > > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I > > also > > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > > even more > > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > > powerheads > > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > > fine. > > > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, > I just > > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > > bulbs as > > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > > info is > > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes > and a 6 > > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > > is off > > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > > you have > > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) > you can > > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you > have. > > > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate > cleaned > > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe > > (not > > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > > can be > > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the > crushed > > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This > would > > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > > to add > > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > > settle to > > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and > lighter > > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > > surface may > > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > > are set > > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term > keeping of > > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > > adding > > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, > and is > > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of > situation. Put > > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be > crusted > > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the > coraline > > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > > able to > > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to > another, > > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > > up in > > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > > Things > > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle > worms, > > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > > If you > > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > > established > > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > > ask them > > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll > try to > > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then > show you > > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as > avoid > > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some > things > > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in > unprepared > > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > > see that > > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54033	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Hi Amber, Let me begin by addressing your light fixture. While that is a clever fixture and suitable for freshwater needs, I hate to say it, but that is not going to work for a reef set up. Let me explain the reasons why... First it doesn't have the correct bulbs in it. Compact fluorescent bulbs are not all created equal. The type of bulbs needed if you choose to go with compact fluorescent bulbs for this tank would be these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/lighting/aquarium-compact-fluorescent-light-bulb-lamp/ps/c/3578/3733/8068 Notice they have pins on them and do not screw in? That means, unfortunately, they would need the proper fixture... which would look like this: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+23507&pcatid=23507 I'm sure you've looked at the cost of this type of fixture and bulbs by now and are groaning... so let me offer you a less expensive solution for your lighting. Take a look at the HO T5 fixtures suitable for reef keeping... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23590&pcatid=23590 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23753&pcatid=23753 HO T5 fixtures can be suited for freshwater or saltwater, it's just a matter of what bulbs are put into it. If you order the fixtures suited for marine/reef tanks they do come with the proper bulbs for a reef, and these bulbs are typically easy to find for replacement once/yr. (and yes, they do need replacing once/yr to avoid losing their spectrum and intensity which will cause a host of problems in a reef tank) Aside from the bulbs in your current fixture there are some other reasons why it is not suitable for a reef. The height that it sits off of the tank allows for far too much light loss... and if you look at the photo you posted of the whole tank setup you can see how much light is reflected on the wall behind the tank as well as onto the tank sitting off to the side of this one. Corals, even the easy, lower light needing species, need much stronger lighting than what this fixture can offer you as well as a different spectrum than what the current bulbs offer. Another problem with your current fixture is the wood as well as the bulb's open exposure to salt creep. (and yes, salt creep can get that high off of the tank) Not only will the salt eat through the wood of your current fixture but it would also have the ability to get into the sockets around those bulbs... which is a huge fire hazard. I hate having to give bad news and I hope you're not too upset... but I wouldn't be helping you if I told you this fixture would work for you. I don't want to see you have a fire in your home, nor do I want to see you waste a ton of money in corals that will only die if added to this set up as it is now. While studying your photos I also noticed another potential problem that I need to make you aware of for safety's sake. I noticed that the table this tank is sitting on is not an aquarium stand, and that the edges of the tank hang over the ends of the table a bit. This tank, at some point, will break if it remains this way long term. Saltwater is heavier than freshwater, (it is more dense), which makes the risk of cracking/breaking even higher. As you begin to sort out the other problems such as correcting the substrate and adding enough live rock, the weight of this tank is going to increase even further. The manufacturer warranty on this tank has already been voided because of the table it sits on, so if/when it breaks, there would be no way to recoup your losses... both tank as well as damage expenses. 29 gallons of salt water can cause an extreme amount of damage to your home. Again, I mention this because I don't want to see you have to deal with a disaster which is only a matter of time as this tank sits currently. Aquariums are made to hold the weight of the things we want/need to put into them, but only if they are braced properly to accommodate the weight distribution. I liked your idea of using your bf's tank as a main tank and then using this 29 gallon as a quarantine. That would be a good solution to your quarantine problem without having to spend a ton of money... however, to quarantine corals in this tank you would still need to address the problems mentioned above. Corals without the proper lighting for even a few days to a week will quickly begin to fade away and die, and unlike plants in a fresh water situation, bringing them back from near death is extremely difficult to impossible. Please remember that corals are not plants, they are animals, and they have very specific needs, both for lighting as well as water chemistry. Dead/dying corals in a reef tank will quickly pollute the water and affect everything else in the tank. So sorry to have to bring you "bad news" but as I said, my desire is to help you and not see you go through the issues and expense that would be coming your way without this information. The saltwater hobby is not cheap because it is a much more exact science than freshwater, requires much more specific types of equipment/lighting, and that means it allows less room for error before disaster strikes. Making mistakes is much more expensive in the marine hobby and can be much more difficult to correct once it happens. Please let me know what else I can do to help you as you proceed. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone > when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. > Anyways. > I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and one of > the light fixture. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list > > Amber > > On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > > a time issue with work. > > > > bill in pa > > > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're asking > > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > > in case. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > > pictures of > > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 watts, > > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not one > > that > > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs (6700K), not > > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to freshwater > > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large piece > > that > > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > > some of > > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty colors of > > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. Our local > > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll probably > > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, as I will > > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, I may > > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > > it's at > > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > > tank. > > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably not do > > that > > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a nice > > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one that came > > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, so I no > > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the tank, a > > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister filter. I > > also > > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > > even more > > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > > powerheads > > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > > fine. > > > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can use, I just > > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > > bulbs as > > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > > info is > > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes and a 6 > > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > > is off > > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > > you have > > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) you can > > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be letters as > > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what you have. > > > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate cleaned > > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef safe > > (not > > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider removing the > > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > > can be > > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the crushed > > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. This would > > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > > to add > > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > > settle to > > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and lighter > > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > > surface may > > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > > are set > > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term keeping of > > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > > adding > > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick quickly, and is > > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of situation. Put > > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be crusted > > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through it and > > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the coraline > > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > > able to > > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to another, > > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > > up in > > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > > Things > > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, bristle worms, > > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > > If you > > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > > established > > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > > ask them > > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box for a > > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. If you > > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll try to > > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after they > > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you of my > > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't really have > > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other is my > > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then show you > > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well as avoid > > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some things > > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in unprepared > > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > > see that > > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54034	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I was trying to get away with using the CFL bulbs with pins, they are WAY too expensive for me to get here, the fish store charges over 50 dollars for just ONE bulb. I can't afford that, and ordering them is a pain since I live in Alaska (they usually arrive broken and cost a fortune to ship here). This is the same for both CFL straight pin and T5 bulbs, the only bulbs I can get for a good deal are T8 bulbs from walmart or other hardware stores and they don't produce enough light for most saltwater tanks from what I can tell. I don't have a lot of choices for a light fixture here, I either have to build one myself out of bulbs that are not CFL or regular fluorescent (such as buying LED lights and making my own fixture that way). Or find a much better paying job. I have one light fixture on a freshwater tank that uses the straight pin CFL bulbs and I'm tired of replacing them for a fortune. :( I replaced my other straight pin light fixture and am using a 7 foot shop light with T8 bulbs instead because they are cheaper to replace. Amber On 9/22/2012 12:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Hi Amber, > Let me begin by addressing your light fixture. While that is a clever > fixture and suitable for freshwater needs, I hate to say it, but that > is not going to work for a reef set up. Let me explain the reasons why... > First it doesn't have the correct bulbs in it. Compact fluorescent > bulbs are not all created equal. The type of bulbs needed if you > choose to go with compact fluorescent bulbs for this tank would be these: > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/lighting/aquarium-compact-fluorescent-light-bulb-lamp/ps/c/3578/3733/8068 > > Notice they have pins on them and do not screw in? That means, > unfortunately, they would need the proper fixture... which would look > like this: > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+23507&pcatid=23507 > > I'm sure you've looked at the cost of this type of fixture and bulbs > by now and are groaning... so let me offer you a less expensive > solution for your lighting. Take a look at the HO T5 fixtures suitable > for reef keeping... > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23590&pcatid=23590 > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23753&pcatid=23753 > > HO T5 fixtures can be suited for freshwater or saltwater, it's just a > matter of what bulbs are put into it. If you order the fixtures suited > for marine/reef tanks they do come with the proper bulbs for a reef, > and these bulbs are typically easy to find for replacement once/yr. > (and yes, they do need replacing once/yr to avoid losing their > spectrum and intensity which will cause a host of problems in a reef > tank) > > Aside from the bulbs in your current fixture there are some other > reasons why it is not suitable for a reef. The height that it sits off > of the tank allows for far too much light loss... and if you look at > the photo you posted of the whole tank setup you can see how much > light is reflected on the wall behind the tank as well as onto the > tank sitting off to the side of this one. Corals, even the easy, lower > light needing species, need much stronger lighting than what this > fixture can offer you as well as a different spectrum than what the > current bulbs offer. > > Another problem with your current fixture is the wood as well as the > bulb's open exposure to salt creep. (and yes, salt creep can get that > high off of the tank) Not only will the salt eat through the wood of > your current fixture but it would also have the ability to get into > the sockets around those bulbs... which is a huge fire hazard. > > I hate having to give bad news and I hope you're not too upset... but > I wouldn't be helping you if I told you this fixture would work for > you. I don't want to see you have a fire in your home, nor do I want > to see you waste a ton of money in corals that will only die if added > to this set up as it is now. > > While studying your photos I also noticed another potential problem > that I need to make you aware of for safety's sake. I noticed that the > table this tank is sitting on is not an aquarium stand, and that the > edges of the tank hang over the ends of the table a bit. This tank, at > some point, will break if it remains this way long term. Saltwater is > heavier than freshwater, (it is more dense), which makes the risk of > cracking/breaking even higher. As you begin to sort out the other > problems such as correcting the substrate and adding enough live rock, > the weight of this tank is going to increase even further. The > manufacturer warranty on this tank has already been voided because of > the table it sits on, so if/when it breaks, there would be no way to > recoup your losses... both tank as well as damage expenses. 29 gallons > of salt water can cause an extreme amount of damage to your home. > Again, I mention this because I don't want to see you have to deal > with a disaster which is only a matter of time as this tank sits > currently. Aquariums are made to hold the weight of the things we > want/need to put into them, but only if they are braced properly to > accommodate the weight distribution. > > I liked your idea of using your bf's tank as a main tank and then > using this 29 gallon as a quarantine. That would be a good solution to > your quarantine problem without having to spend a ton of money... > however, to quarantine corals in this tank you would still need to > address the problems mentioned above. Corals without the proper > lighting for even a few days to a week will quickly begin to fade away > and die, and unlike plants in a fresh water situation, bringing them > back from near death is extremely difficult to impossible. Please > remember that corals are not plants, they are animals, and they have > very specific needs, both for lighting as well as water chemistry. > Dead/dying corals in a reef tank will quickly pollute the water and > affect everything else in the tank. > > So sorry to have to bring you "bad news" but as I said, my desire is > to help you and not see you go through the issues and expense that > would be coming your way without this information. The saltwater hobby > is not cheap because it is a much more exact science than freshwater, > requires much more specific types of equipment/lighting, and that > means it allows less room for error before disaster strikes. Making > mistakes is much more expensive in the marine hobby and can be much > more difficult to correct once it happens. > > Please let me know what else I can do to help you as you proceed. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone > > when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. > > Anyways. > > I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and > one of > > the light fixture. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > > > a time issue with work. > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > > > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > > > > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're > asking > > > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > > > in case. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > > > pictures of > > > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 > watts, > > > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not > one > > > that > > > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs > (6700K), not > > > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to > freshwater > > > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large > piece > > > that > > > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > > > some of > > > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty > colors of > > > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. > Our local > > > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll > probably > > > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, > as I will > > > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, > I may > > > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > > > it's at > > > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > > > tank. > > > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably > not do > > > that > > > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a > nice > > > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one > that came > > > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, > so I no > > > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the > tank, a > > > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister > filter. I > > > also > > > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > > > even more > > > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > > > powerheads > > > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can > use, I just > > > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > > > bulbs as > > > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > > > info is > > > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes > and a 6 > > > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > > > is off > > > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > > > you have > > > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) > you can > > > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be > letters as > > > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what > you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate > cleaned > > > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef > safe > > > (not > > > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider > removing the > > > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > > > can be > > > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the > crushed > > > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. > This would > > > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > > > to add > > > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > > > settle to > > > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and > lighter > > > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > > > surface may > > > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > > > are set > > > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term > keeping of > > > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > > > adding > > > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick > quickly, and is > > > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of > situation. Put > > > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be > crusted > > > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through > it and > > > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the > coraline > > > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > > > able to > > > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to > another, > > > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > > > up in > > > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > > > Things > > > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, > bristle worms, > > > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > > > If you > > > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > > > established > > > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > > > ask them > > > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box > for a > > > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. > If you > > > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll > try to > > > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after > they > > > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you > of my > > > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't > really have > > > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other > is my > > > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then > show you > > > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well > as avoid > > > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some > things > > > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in > unprepared > > > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > > > see that > > > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option > > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54035	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I hope you are keeping in mind that at the beginning I said this tank is only temporary until we get the 48 gallon over to my house (which has a proper stand built for it and a proper hood) but the light fixture that came with it is only a fluorescent T8 (single bulb) fixture, and I know that's not enough light at all. Amber On 9/22/2012 12:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Hi Amber, > Let me begin by addressing your light fixture. While that is a clever > fixture and suitable for freshwater needs, I hate to say it, but that > is not going to work for a reef set up. Let me explain the reasons why... > First it doesn't have the correct bulbs in it. Compact fluorescent > bulbs are not all created equal. The type of bulbs needed if you > choose to go with compact fluorescent bulbs for this tank would be these: > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/lighting/aquarium-compact-fluorescent-light-bulb-lamp/ps/c/3578/3733/8068 > > Notice they have pins on them and do not screw in? That means, > unfortunately, they would need the proper fixture... which would look > like this: > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+23507&pcatid=23507 > > I'm sure you've looked at the cost of this type of fixture and bulbs > by now and are groaning... so let me offer you a less expensive > solution for your lighting. Take a look at the HO T5 fixtures suitable > for reef keeping... > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23590&pcatid=23590 > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23753&pcatid=23753 > > HO T5 fixtures can be suited for freshwater or saltwater, it's just a > matter of what bulbs are put into it. If you order the fixtures suited > for marine/reef tanks they do come with the proper bulbs for a reef, > and these bulbs are typically easy to find for replacement once/yr. > (and yes, they do need replacing once/yr to avoid losing their > spectrum and intensity which will cause a host of problems in a reef > tank) > > Aside from the bulbs in your current fixture there are some other > reasons why it is not suitable for a reef. The height that it sits off > of the tank allows for far too much light loss... and if you look at > the photo you posted of the whole tank setup you can see how much > light is reflected on the wall behind the tank as well as onto the > tank sitting off to the side of this one. Corals, even the easy, lower > light needing species, need much stronger lighting than what this > fixture can offer you as well as a different spectrum than what the > current bulbs offer. > > Another problem with your current fixture is the wood as well as the > bulb's open exposure to salt creep. (and yes, salt creep can get that > high off of the tank) Not only will the salt eat through the wood of > your current fixture but it would also have the ability to get into > the sockets around those bulbs... which is a huge fire hazard. > > I hate having to give bad news and I hope you're not too upset... but > I wouldn't be helping you if I told you this fixture would work for > you. I don't want to see you have a fire in your home, nor do I want > to see you waste a ton of money in corals that will only die if added > to this set up as it is now. > > While studying your photos I also noticed another potential problem > that I need to make you aware of for safety's sake. I noticed that the > table this tank is sitting on is not an aquarium stand, and that the > edges of the tank hang over the ends of the table a bit. This tank, at > some point, will break if it remains this way long term. Saltwater is > heavier than freshwater, (it is more dense), which makes the risk of > cracking/breaking even higher. As you begin to sort out the other > problems such as correcting the substrate and adding enough live rock, > the weight of this tank is going to increase even further. The > manufacturer warranty on this tank has already been voided because of > the table it sits on, so if/when it breaks, there would be no way to > recoup your losses... both tank as well as damage expenses. 29 gallons > of salt water can cause an extreme amount of damage to your home. > Again, I mention this because I don't want to see you have to deal > with a disaster which is only a matter of time as this tank sits > currently. Aquariums are made to hold the weight of the things we > want/need to put into them, but only if they are braced properly to > accommodate the weight distribution. > > I liked your idea of using your bf's tank as a main tank and then > using this 29 gallon as a quarantine. That would be a good solution to > your quarantine problem without having to spend a ton of money... > however, to quarantine corals in this tank you would still need to > address the problems mentioned above. Corals without the proper > lighting for even a few days to a week will quickly begin to fade away > and die, and unlike plants in a fresh water situation, bringing them > back from near death is extremely difficult to impossible. Please > remember that corals are not plants, they are animals, and they have > very specific needs, both for lighting as well as water chemistry. > Dead/dying corals in a reef tank will quickly pollute the water and > affect everything else in the tank. > > So sorry to have to bring you "bad news" but as I said, my desire is > to help you and not see you go through the issues and expense that > would be coming your way without this information. The saltwater hobby > is not cheap because it is a much more exact science than freshwater, > requires much more specific types of equipment/lighting, and that > means it allows less room for error before disaster strikes. Making > mistakes is much more expensive in the marine hobby and can be much > more difficult to correct once it happens. > > Please let me know what else I can do to help you as you proceed. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone > > when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. > > Anyways. > > I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and > one of > > the light fixture. > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list > > > > Amber > > > > On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > > > a time issue with work. > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > > > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > > > > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're > asking > > > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > > > in case. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > > > pictures of > > > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 > watts, > > > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not > one > > > that > > > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs > (6700K), not > > > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to > freshwater > > > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large > piece > > > that > > > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > > > some of > > > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty > colors of > > > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. > Our local > > > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll > probably > > > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, > as I will > > > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, > I may > > > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > > > it's at > > > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > > > tank. > > > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably > not do > > > that > > > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a > nice > > > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one > that came > > > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, > so I no > > > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the > tank, a > > > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister > filter. I > > > also > > > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > > > even more > > > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > > > powerheads > > > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can > use, I just > > > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > > > bulbs as > > > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > > > info is > > > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes > and a 6 > > > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > > > is off > > > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > > > you have > > > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) > you can > > > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be > letters as > > > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what > you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate > cleaned > > > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef > safe > > > (not > > > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider > removing the > > > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > > > can be > > > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the > crushed > > > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. > This would > > > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > > > to add > > > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > > > settle to > > > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and > lighter > > > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > > > surface may > > > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > > > are set > > > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term > keeping of > > > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > > > adding > > > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick > quickly, and is > > > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of > situation. Put > > > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be > crusted > > > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through > it and > > > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the > coraline > > > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > > > able to > > > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to > another, > > > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > > > up in > > > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > > > Things > > > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, > bristle worms, > > > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > > > If you > > > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > > > established > > > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > > > ask them > > > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box > for a > > > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. > If you > > > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll > try to > > > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after > they > > > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you > of my > > > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't > really have > > > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other > is my > > > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then > show you > > > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well > as avoid > > > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some > things > > > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in > unprepared > > > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > > > see that > > > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > Thank You. > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > message > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > subject)" <- > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > unsubscribing, > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > digest, > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > option > > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > post > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > individual > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > Thank You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > message > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > unsubscribing, > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54036	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Yes I was keeping that in mind, but thought I needed to warn you if you intend to use this 29 gallon as a quarantine tank. I understand your dilemma in regards to the lighting, but you need to know that the lights you mention for options are not going to work for a reef tank. I'm sorry, but they just don't produce enough light or the right spectrum for such a thing. It would cost you a lot more than $50/bulb for the proper CFL bulbs if you were to order hundreds of dollars worth of corals only to watch them die because they don't have the proper lighting. I guess my advice to you has to be to consider a fish only tank for your 48 gallon tank, stay away from corals/reef setting. That would allow you to use a lower grade of lighting, however, the live rock should still have something appropriate for salt water or it isn't going to grow anything but troublesome algae. Even coraline algae needs proper lighting to grow on the rock. I'm going to post some photos of my 75 gallon reef tank for you (taken today) and also 1 of my 29 gallon biocube taken just before I tore it down back in March to turn it into a quarantine tank. I'm very sorry for you that your situation doesn't allow for keeping of a reef tank, that is very sad. But, it's better that you find out now before you waste a ton of money trying to do something that won't/can't work. If there's anything more I can do to help please just ask. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I hope you are keeping in mind that at the beginning I said this tank is > only temporary until we get the 48 gallon over to my house (which has a > proper stand built for it and a proper hood) but the light fixture that > came with it is only a fluorescent T8 (single bulb) fixture, and I know > that's not enough light at all. > > Amber > > On 9/22/2012 12:21 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Hi Amber, > > Let me begin by addressing your light fixture. While that is a clever > > fixture and suitable for freshwater needs, I hate to say it, but that > > is not going to work for a reef set up. Let me explain the reasons why... > > First it doesn't have the correct bulbs in it. Compact fluorescent > > bulbs are not all created equal. The type of bulbs needed if you > > choose to go with compact fluorescent bulbs for this tank would be these: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/fish-supplies/lighting/aquarium-compact-fluorescent-light-bulb-lamp/ps/c/3578/3733/8068 > > > > Notice they have pins on them and do not screw in? That means, > > unfortunately, they would need the proper fixture... which would look > > like this: > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9654+23507&pcatid=23507 > > > > I'm sure you've looked at the cost of this type of fixture and bulbs > > by now and are groaning... so let me offer you a less expensive > > solution for your lighting. Take a look at the HO T5 fixtures suitable > > for reef keeping... > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23590&pcatid=23590 > > > > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+23753&pcatid=23753 > > > > HO T5 fixtures can be suited for freshwater or saltwater, it's just a > > matter of what bulbs are put into it. If you order the fixtures suited > > for marine/reef tanks they do come with the proper bulbs for a reef, > > and these bulbs are typically easy to find for replacement once/yr. > > (and yes, they do need replacing once/yr to avoid losing their > > spectrum and intensity which will cause a host of problems in a reef > > tank) > > > > Aside from the bulbs in your current fixture there are some other > > reasons why it is not suitable for a reef. The height that it sits off > > of the tank allows for far too much light loss... and if you look at > > the photo you posted of the whole tank setup you can see how much > > light is reflected on the wall behind the tank as well as onto the > > tank sitting off to the side of this one. Corals, even the easy, lower > > light needing species, need much stronger lighting than what this > > fixture can offer you as well as a different spectrum than what the > > current bulbs offer. > > > > Another problem with your current fixture is the wood as well as the > > bulb's open exposure to salt creep. (and yes, salt creep can get that > > high off of the tank) Not only will the salt eat through the wood of > > your current fixture but it would also have the ability to get into > > the sockets around those bulbs... which is a huge fire hazard. > > > > I hate having to give bad news and I hope you're not too upset... but > > I wouldn't be helping you if I told you this fixture would work for > > you. I don't want to see you have a fire in your home, nor do I want > > to see you waste a ton of money in corals that will only die if added > > to this set up as it is now. > > > > While studying your photos I also noticed another potential problem > > that I need to make you aware of for safety's sake. I noticed that the > > table this tank is sitting on is not an aquarium stand, and that the > > edges of the tank hang over the ends of the table a bit. This tank, at > > some point, will break if it remains this way long term. Saltwater is > > heavier than freshwater, (it is more dense), which makes the risk of > > cracking/breaking even higher. As you begin to sort out the other > > problems such as correcting the substrate and adding enough live rock, > > the weight of this tank is going to increase even further. The > > manufacturer warranty on this tank has already been voided because of > > the table it sits on, so if/when it breaks, there would be no way to > > recoup your losses... both tank as well as damage expenses. 29 gallons > > of salt water can cause an extreme amount of damage to your home. > > Again, I mention this because I don't want to see you have to deal > > with a disaster which is only a matter of time as this tank sits > > currently. Aquariums are made to hold the weight of the things we > > want/need to put into them, but only if they are braced properly to > > accommodate the weight distribution. > > > > I liked your idea of using your bf's tank as a main tank and then > > using this 29 gallon as a quarantine. That would be a good solution to > > your quarantine problem without having to spend a ton of money... > > however, to quarantine corals in this tank you would still need to > > address the problems mentioned above. Corals without the proper > > lighting for even a few days to a week will quickly begin to fade away > > and die, and unlike plants in a fresh water situation, bringing them > > back from near death is extremely difficult to impossible. Please > > remember that corals are not plants, they are animals, and they have > > very specific needs, both for lighting as well as water chemistry. > > Dead/dying corals in a reef tank will quickly pollute the water and > > affect everything else in the tank. > > > > So sorry to have to bring you "bad news" but as I said, my desire is > > to help you and not see you go through the issues and expense that > > would be coming your way without this information. The saltwater hobby > > is not cheap because it is a much more exact science than freshwater, > > requires much more specific types of equipment/lighting, and that > > means it allows less room for error before disaster strikes. Making > > mistakes is much more expensive in the marine hobby and can be much > > more difficult to correct once it happens. > > > > Please let me know what else I can do to help you as you proceed. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Sorry I'm so late, had issues getting my computer to recognize my phone > > > when I went to upload the photos. Took me hours. LOL. > > > Anyways. > > > I put the pictures up on the group page, I have 2 of the tank and > > one of > > > the light fixture. > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1965213528/pic/list > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 12:06 PM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > I hinted as much Dawn but I think for right now she's having > > > > a time issue with work. > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 9/21/12, dawnshungryeyes4u2c > > > > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@ > > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@ > > > > <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c%40yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Friday, September 21, 2012, 3:42 PM > > > > > > > > Both light fixture and tank photos would help a lot. :-) > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'll get a picture of it after work today. I'm assuming you're > > asking > > > > > about the light fixture? I'll take some pics of the tank too, just > > > > in case. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 9/21/2012 5:24 AM, bill 1433 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Amber, > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, its been a while. A favor? Is there any way to get some > > > > pictures of > > > > > > this unit? I think Dawn would benfit too? > > > > > > > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 9/20/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@ > > > > > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Salt water tank > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 10:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I double checked the CFL (spiral kind) bulbs, they are each 42 > > watts, > > > > > > and there are 6 of them. It's a custom made light fixture, not > > one > > > > that > > > > > > was made for the tank. They are definitely daylight bulbs > > (6700K), not > > > > > > sure if I need a different spectrum for corals, I'm used to > > freshwater > > > > > > planted tanks. The live rock I have in the tank is one large > > piece > > > > that > > > > > > weighs about 15 lbs. It seems very dense and was very heavy when I > > > > > > lifted it out of the tank to move it to mine. I'm hoping to get > > > > some of > > > > > > the lighter live rock (some of them come in really pretty > > colors of > > > > > > algae growth on them too), I just can't afford it quite yet. > > Our local > > > > > > fish store only special orders saltwater fish/inverts so I'll > > probably > > > > > > be doing my own ordering off of aquabid or somewhere online, > > as I will > > > > > > get a better deal using my fedex account to ship stuff in. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a mixture of crushed coral and (what was once live) sand, > > I may > > > > > > have forgotten to say that, it's not ALL crushed coral. I'd say > > > > it's at > > > > > > least a 50/50 mix of sand/crushed coral. The sand I moved from my > > > > > > boyfriend's tank was from an established (over 5 years) saltwater > > > > tank. > > > > > > Thanks for the tips on the water bridge idea, I'll probably > > not do > > > > that > > > > > > now that I have more info on what could go wrong, but it was a > > nice > > > > > > thought to have the tanks connected. > > > > > > Is a sump/overflow necessary for a saltwater tank? I had one > > that came > > > > > > with my 125 gallon tank, but I gave it away about a year ago, > > so I no > > > > > > longer have the sump box and powerhead that was in it. > > > > > > As far as the equipment goes I have 2 filters running on the > > tank, a > > > > > > Rena XP (I think it's a XP 2), and a Magnum 350 canister > > filter. I > > > > also > > > > > > have 2 extra powerheads that can be used in the tank if I need > > > > even more > > > > > > water flow for corals, I wasn't sure how much I need and the > > > > powerheads > > > > > > have been in the closet for about a year but they still work just > > > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a calcium test kit around here somewhere that I can > > use, I just > > > > > > have to find it, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/20/2012 4:23 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber, can you double check the info on the light fixture and > > > > bulbs as > > > > > > > well as the measurements of your tank please? Something in the > > > > info is > > > > > > > off... compact fluorescent bulbs don't come in 90 watt sizes > > and a 6 > > > > > > > bulb fixture over a 29 gallon tank wouldn't fit. Not sure what > > > > is off > > > > > > > but would like to help you sort it out. Knowing for sure what > > > > you have > > > > > > > is important because it will determine what animals (corals) > > you can > > > > > > > keep in the tank. Can you tell me what is written on each of the > > > > > > > bulbs? (the print directly on the bulb) There should be > > letters as > > > > > > > well as numbers there. That would help me to identify what > > you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hermits can work with crushed coral but they tend to have a more > > > > > > > difficult time finding enough food or keeping the substrate > > cleaned > > > > > > > up, especially if you are sticking to hermits that are reef > > safe > > > > (not > > > > > > > all crabs are reef safe). You might want to consider > > removing the > > > > > > > crushed coral and making up the difference with live sand. This > > > > can be > > > > > > > done with a strainer where the sand can fall through but the > > crushed > > > > > > > coral pieces are too big and will remain in the strainer. > > This would > > > > > > > preserve the sand you have at present and then you'd only need > > > > to add > > > > > > > to it. Also, the sand in your tank that's mixed in now will > > > > settle to > > > > > > > the bottom under the crushed coral because it is smaller and > > lighter > > > > > > > weight, so using a tube to suck the crushed coral from the > > > > surface may > > > > > > > also be an option... depends on your ratio of each and how you > > > > are set > > > > > > > up. I suggest this now because it will make the long term > > keeping of > > > > > > > this tank much easier and because doing it now before you start > > > > adding > > > > > > > animals also makes the process easier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not suggest connecting the tanks via some kind of > > > > > > > tunnel/tube/bridge system. In a healthy saltwater tank there is > > > > > > > coraline algae growth that will build up quickly, that's a good > > > > > > > thing... however, it's very hard, can get very thick > > quickly, and is > > > > > > > near impossible to remove from a tunnel/tube type of > > situation. Put > > > > > > > simply, it would start out looking nice but would quickly be > > crusted > > > > > > > in coraline algae where you wouldn't be able to see through > > it and > > > > > > > then eventually it would slow water flow/circulation as the > > coraline > > > > > > > continues to build. If your intention is for the animals to be > > > > able to > > > > > > > pass back and forth through this "tunnel" from one tank to > > another, > > > > > > > again I say don't do it. There are so many things that will get > > > > up in > > > > > > > there and get stuck or begin to grow where you have no access to > > > > > > > remove them, it would become a nightmare situation before long. > > > > Things > > > > > > > such as tube worms, aptasia, various forms of algaes, > > bristle worms, > > > > > > > etc. would all "live" in there and make for one heck of a mess. > > > > If you > > > > > > > know anyone who is running a saltwater tank at present, an > > > > established > > > > > > > tank that is at least 1+ yrs old with a sump/overflow system, > > > > ask them > > > > > > > if you can take a flashlight and peek into the overflow box > > for a > > > > > > > minute or 2 and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about. > > If you > > > > > > > don't know anyone where you can do this let me know and I'll > > try to > > > > > > > get some photos for you on this end. It's important for you to > > > > > > > actually be able to see what I'm referring to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have company due to arrive any moment now, but later after > > they > > > > > > > leave I will get out my camera and take some photos for you > > of my > > > > > > > saltwater tanks. One is a quarantine tank that I don't > > really have > > > > > > > anything in so I just let it do it's own thing and the other > > is my > > > > > > > main tank that is maintained daily. I will be able to then > > show you > > > > > > > some of the things to prepare for and watch out for as well > > as avoid > > > > > > > in your own tank. Every tank is different but there are some > > things > > > > > > > that are common about all marine set ups... and going in > > unprepared > > > > > > > can mean more work as well as more expense later. I'd hate to > > > > see that > > > > > > > happen for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll be back later. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > > > Thank You. > > > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > > > message > > > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old > > subject)" <- > > > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > > > unsubscribing, > > > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the > > digest, > > > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > > > option > > > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and > > post > > > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive > > individual > > > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, > > Thank You. > > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > > > > important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original > > message > > > > MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of > > unsubscribing, > > > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > > > > Membership" on the home page. > > > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, > > > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail > > option > > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > > > replies. > > > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual > > > > e-mails.Yahoo! 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Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54037	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/22/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I've just uploaded some photos to the album "Dawn's reef" but they are waiting for moderator approval. Hopefully that won't take real long. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > a fish tank, LOL. > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > gallon over. > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about killing > his fish somehow, LOL. > > Amber >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54038	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I have a light that will work for saltwater and even have bulbs for saltwater (I removed them and put in 6700K daylight bulbs and put the actinic and 10000K bulbs in the closet). I just don't want to move it until we have my BF's 48 gallon over here (it's too long for the 29 gallon, but the perfect length for a 48 or 55 gallon tank, the legs are adjustable). I also have square pin CFL fixtures (for 4 bulbs) that I removed from my 125 gallon hood because I didn't need so much light for my freshwater low light plants. I just don't have square pin bulbs for that fixture, only straight pin ones for the other light fixture. This is the light I'm talking about that I have appropriate salt water bulbs for: http://www.aquaticlife.com/products/296 It's discontinued but it is a great fixture, I'd love to switch to the same type only LED some day. Amber On 9/22/2012 3:06 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Yes I was keeping that in mind, but thought I needed to warn you if > you intend to use this 29 gallon as a quarantine tank. > > I understand your dilemma in regards to the lighting, but you need to > know that the lights you mention for options are not going to work for > a reef tank. I'm sorry, but they just don't produce enough light or > the right spectrum for such a thing. It would cost you a lot more than > $50/bulb for the proper CFL bulbs if you were to order hundreds of > dollars worth of corals only to watch them die because they don't have > the proper lighting. > > I guess my advice to you has to be to consider a fish only tank for > your 48 gallon tank, stay away from corals/reef setting. That would > allow you to use a lower grade of lighting, however, the live rock > should still have something appropriate for salt water or it isn't > going to grow anything but troublesome algae. Even coraline algae > needs proper lighting to grow on the rock. > > I'm going to post some photos of my 75 gallon reef tank for you (taken > today) and also 1 of my 29 gallon biocube taken just before I tore it > down back in March to turn it into a quarantine tank. > > I'm very sorry for you that your situation doesn't allow for keeping > of a reef tank, that is very sad. But, it's better that you find out > now before you waste a ton of money trying to do something that > won't/can't work. > > If there's anything more I can do to help please just ask. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I hope you are keeping in mind that at the beginning I said this > tank is > > only temporary until we get the 48 gallon over to my house (which has a > > proper stand built for it and a proper hood) but the light fixture that > > came with it is only a fluorescent T8 (single bulb) fixture, and I know > > that's not enough light at all. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54039	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Pictures are gorgeous Dawn, I love the mandarin goby, saw some on aquabid a few weeks ago and thought they were so neat. I'm curious because my gravel looks just like the gravel you have in that same tank, was it a mixture of crushed coral? I might be wrong about what kind of gravel I have, it was used and the woman never really told me what kind it was, just that it was live sand for her saltwater tank. I guess I assumed it was a mixture of sand/crushed coral. Is there a way to find out what I have? Maybe I can bring some to the fish store and ask, but they mainly keep freshwater fish, they just have 1 display tank that's saltwater (the owners). Amber On 9/22/2012 3:10 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > I've just uploaded some photos to the album "Dawn's reef" but they are > waiting for moderator approval. Hopefully that won't take real long. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > a fish tank, LOL. > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > gallon over. > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about > killing > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > Amber > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54040	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

While we're discussing lighting, have you ever done DIY LED lighting? I have a youtube video link of a person who's done a lot of DIY prodjects (mostly fish tanks and such, but also stands/hoods etc). I was wondering what you might think of his LED light fixture that he made in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rLFh3Q_FEA&feature=g-user-u Amber On 9/22/2012 3:06 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Yes I was keeping that in mind, but thought I needed to warn you if > you intend to use this 29 gallon as a quarantine tank. > > I understand your dilemma in regards to the lighting, but you need to > know that the lights you mention for options are not going to work for > a reef tank. I'm sorry, but they just don't produce enough light or > the right spectrum for such a thing. It would cost you a lot more than > $50/bulb for the proper CFL bulbs if you were to order hundreds of > dollars worth of corals only to watch them die because they don't have > the proper lighting. > > I guess my advice to you has to be to consider a fish only tank for > your 48 gallon tank, stay away from corals/reef setting. That would > allow you to use a lower grade of lighting, however, the live rock > should still have something appropriate for salt water or it isn't > going to grow anything but troublesome algae. Even coraline algae > needs proper lighting to grow on the rock. > > I'm going to post some photos of my 75 gallon reef tank for you (taken > today) and also 1 of my 29 gallon biocube taken just before I tore it > down back in March to turn it into a quarantine tank. > > I'm very sorry for you that your situation doesn't allow for keeping > of a reef tank, that is very sad. But, it's better that you find out > now before you waste a ton of money trying to do something that > won't/can't work. > > If there's anything more I can do to help please just ask. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54041	From: jshsb86	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: 55 gallon South American

Hi! I am looking to set up a 55 gal South American tank. Main reason for this is I love the pictus catfish! I would like to know what other tank mates would be suitable. I know I can't go too small since the pictus would just eat them! Would silver dollars or blood red parrots or rams be ok? I was originally thinking angel fish but they are slower moving and i know the pictus is a very active catfish. What are some thoughts? Could i get away with a pleco in there? I want something that will occupy the middle to upper since the pictus tends to be towards the lower mid region. I have the tank cycling now and its ready everything has stabilzed. Ibwill have live plants as well in there. Thanks! Jon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54042	From: pam andress	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American

My neighbor has them and has BN's and angel fish with them. To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: jshsb86@... Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:56:44 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] 55 gallon South American Hi! I am looking to set up a 55 gal South American tank. Main reason for this is I love the pictus catfish! I would like to know what other tank mates would be suitable. I know I can't go too small since the pictus would just eat them! Would silver dollars or blood red parrots or rams be ok? I was originally thinking angel fish but they are slower moving and i know the pictus is a very active catfish. What are some thoughts? Could i get away with a pleco in there? I want something that will occupy the middle to upper since the pictus tends to be towards the lower mid region. I have the tank cycling now and its ready everything has stabilzed. Ibwill have live plants as well in there. Thanks! Jon [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54043	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/23/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

I haven't had a chance to watch the video all the way through yet, only the first few minutes of it. Sorry but I'm battling a sinus infection and just wasn't feeling good today. I will try to sit and watch it tomorrow with my husband since he works at one of the manufacturers who makes the LED fixtures. He'll be able to tell me how feasible this would be and what potential issues would be involved. I did also check out (briefly) the website listed in the beginning of that video and am wondering if you checked into the expense of building your own LED fixture, since money was mentioned as an issue for you? When you start adding up what would be needed for components, (IF this guy's diy plans are a doable thing) you'd be looking at spending up to around $400 on average to build this fixture. Expense is one of the reasons why LED fixtures are not real popular yet overall and want to make sure you're prepared for that... buying a ready made/built fixture or diy, it's still not going to be cheap. I will post again after hubby and I have had a chance to watch the whole video and will give you our take on it then, hopefully tomorrow if I'm feeling up to it. In the mean time, can you tell me what bulbs and how many you have for that other fixture you mentioned? (I need to know what is printed on each bulb) Knowing what you have is the first thing in deciding what can and can't work for your situation and will make it much easier for me to help you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > While we're discussing lighting, have you ever done DIY LED lighting? I > have a youtube video link of a person who's done a lot of DIY prodjects > (mostly fish tanks and such, but also stands/hoods etc). I was wondering > what you might think of his LED light fixture that he made in this video: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rLFh3Q_FEA&feature=g-user-u > > Amber > > On 9/22/2012 3:06 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Yes I was keeping that in mind, but thought I needed to warn you if > > you intend to use this 29 gallon as a quarantine tank. > > > > I understand your dilemma in regards to the lighting, but you need to > > know that the lights you mention for options are not going to work for > > a reef tank. I'm sorry, but they just don't produce enough light or > > the right spectrum for such a thing. It would cost you a lot more than > > $50/bulb for the proper CFL bulbs if you were to order hundreds of > > dollars worth of corals only to watch them die because they don't have > > the proper lighting. > > > > I guess my advice to you has to be to consider a fish only tank for > > your 48 gallon tank, stay away from corals/reef setting. That would > > allow you to use a lower grade of lighting, however, the live rock > > should still have something appropriate for salt water or it isn't > > going to grow anything but troublesome algae. Even coraline algae > > needs proper lighting to grow on the rock. > > > > I'm going to post some photos of my 75 gallon reef tank for you (taken > > today) and also 1 of my 29 gallon biocube taken just before I tore it > > down back in March to turn it into a quarantine tank. > > > > I'm very sorry for you that your situation doesn't allow for keeping > > of a reef tank, that is very sad. But, it's better that you find out > > now before you waste a ton of money trying to do something that > > won't/can't work. > > > > If there's anything more I can do to help please just ask. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54044	From: Noura	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Outage! My fish are dying!

Hello, We're having a huge outage, the electricity was off for 22 hours during the last 31 hours. NO WATER EITHER! I only have the roof reservoire's water and I haven't checked its level yet. All 4 tanks were okey up till last night "it's 3 pm here in Syria now", but today I found 2 dead fancy guppies in the 6G, and the third female guppy is suffering. The cichlid tank is doing great, considering the circumstances. The 20G. community tank looks fine, but I lost one molly fry. I moved the molly fry from the jar to the 20 G. I thought it's safer for them. Back to the 6G, I took some measurments: Nitrate 80 "It was due to a water change 2 days ago but the water is off" Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0.25 What do you recommend? I can sacrifice some water to save the fish. But really should do the minimum as I don't know how much water do I have left in the reservoire. Will try to check later when I get the keys. Thanks! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54045	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American

Jon, You could definitely get away with a Pleco in a 55 gallon tank, provided it's of the Ancistrus Genus ("Bushy-Nose" -- or Bristle-Nose, Pleco), which average about 6" or so. The common Pleco gets to at least 18" though -- too large for your tank. Most catfish will stay near or on the bottom though, except for suckermouth ones attaching themselves to the tank sides. Rainbowfish inhabit the upper 1/3 of the tank however, and while they're active, they're not lightening fast. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54046	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Salt water tank

Thanks Amber, glad you enjoyed the photos. The mandarin is my newest addition, got her about 6 - 8 wks ago. As pretty as they are, that is a VERY difficult fish to keep. They require a massive amount of natural food supply and a single mandarin needs a minimum of a 75 gallon tank to do well. She is the reason I didn't mind the planaria issue that got into that tank, since that is food for her, but I had to let it build up for a few months before it was safe to add her. That is one fish that you won't be able to keep with your tomato clown, since the tomatoes are just too aggressive for something like that. The only substrate I have ever used in my reef tanks is live sand. (Aragonite sand) As for yours, if you can get me a clear close up photo of your substrate I should be able to tell you what is in there... the last photos showed something that looked "green" and appeared larger than sand in your tank. I was going to ask you about that because it looks like green "gravel" mixed in. Freshwater gravels are not a good idea in marine tanks, in case that is what it is. Sorry for the delays in my posts, please bear with me. Whatever this illness is that I'm battling is getting worse instead of better. I fear I may have bronchitis, which means I may once again end up with pneumonia. (I'm prone to it) My time online is going to be very limited until I get well again, hopefully that won't take real long. Keep posting and asking your questions though, because I usually can at least get here to read through them daily, it's just a matter of the time to type up a reply. The more I can answer in a single post the easier it will be for me to keep up with you right now. Thanks for your understanding. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Pictures are gorgeous Dawn, I love the mandarin goby, saw some on > aquabid a few weeks ago and thought they were so neat. > I'm curious because my gravel looks just like the gravel you have in > that same tank, was it a mixture of crushed coral? > I might be wrong about what kind of gravel I have, it was used and the > woman never really told me what kind it was, just that it was live sand > for her saltwater tank. I guess I assumed it was a mixture of > sand/crushed coral. Is there a way to find out what I have? Maybe I can > bring some to the fish store and ask, but they mainly keep freshwater > fish, they just have 1 display tank that's saltwater (the owners). > > Amber > > On 9/22/2012 3:10 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > I've just uploaded some photos to the album "Dawn's reef" but they are > > waiting for moderator approval. Hopefully that won't take real long. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber Berglund > > <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I've just recently dipped my toes into trying a Saltwater tank (reef > > > tank). Oh and that's figuratively of course, I'd never stick my toes in > > > a fish tank, LOL. > > > My boyfriend had a lonely little tomato clown fish (Grumpy Jr.) in a 48 > > > gallon bowfront tank, the tank was in serious need of cleaning, and > > > since he's working on moving into my condo we decided to move his > > > fish/filter/and gravel over to one of my tanks until we can move his 48 > > > gallon over. > > > There was a slight mini-cycle after the move, but things have evened > > > back out and the fish is doing great and seems much happier in his new > > > clean tank (even if it's smaller). I only have one large piece of live > > > rock, so I'm pretty sure I need to purchase more, especially if we end > > > of having 2 saltwater tanks running after he brings his over. > > > I had a bunch of crushed coral/sand that had once been living and in my > > > 125 gallon tank, but when I made it freshwater I changed the gravel. So > > > I used about 1/4 of my boyfriends gravel and added it on top of my > > > crushed coral sand to help seed the gravel with nitrifying bacteria. > > > I'm excited to try out saltwater for a change, but nervous about > > killing > > > his fish somehow, LOL. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54047	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: 55 gallon South American

While researching tank mates for the pictus it's a good idea to consider how large of a tank you're planning to upgrade to for the final max tank size and how soon? Whenever dealing with fish that get large it's always a good idea to plan ahead right from the beginning as this will give you a better indication of what will and won't work out for you. Since pictus cats get 16 - 18 inches long full grown and when healthy grow rather rapidly, you'll want to stick with fish that stay large enough they can't be eaten as the catfish grows. Silver dollars also get quite large, some more so than others depending on species, and can also be quite rapid growers if they're healthy. In that same size range you also have severums (gold or green no matter), the larger species of gouramis (such as pearl gouramis), chocolate cichlids, festivums, argentia, tinfoil barbs, etc. The trick is to get something large enough to not be food and passive enough to not tear up the pictus (semi peaceful fish). Considering how many other fish you want will also help to determine the future needs such as tank size, filtration, etc. and how soon you will need those things. Any idea how large of a pictus you're planning to start with? That will help you figure out how many other fish and what sizes they need to be to get you started in the 55 gallon and whether or not you will want/need to wait to get more fish later after the next tank upgrade. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "jshsb86" <jshsb86@...> wrote: > > Hi! I am looking to set up a 55 gal South American tank. Main reason for this is I love the pictus catfish! I would like to know what other tank mates would be suitable. I know I can't go too small since the pictus would just eat them! Would silver dollars or blood red parrots or rams be ok? I was originally thinking angel fish but they are slower moving and i know the pictus is a very active catfish. What are some thoughts? Could i get away with a pleco in there? I want something that will occupy the middle to upper since the pictus tends to be towards the lower mid region. > I have the tank cycling now and its ready everything has stabilzed. Ibwill have live plants as well in there. > > Thanks! > Jon >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54048	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!

Hi Noura, Sorry to hear you are having these problems-may be a long shot but if you can get any bottled water then use that to do your water changes. Bottled water is not ideal as a rule because it contains very little in the way of trace elements so it is sterile but I think in your situation it would certainly help to save your fish. Hopefully someone on here can come up with a longer term solution for you. Is your roof reservoir sealed or is it open to the air? if it is open then it is probably not fit for drinking & therefore no good for your fish. You can get some aeration into your tanks by using a small jug or cup & simply scooping up & gently pouring back the water. Time consuming but well worth it if you are able to do it, try to aerate each tank for a few minutes every hour or so. This will at least get some oxygen back into your water. As your filters have been off for so long the good bacteria in them will likely have died off by now so that is going to be another problem for you so prepare to do some large water changes when you get your water & electric back-treat all your tanks as newly set-up. John*<o)))< * On 24 September 2012 12:53, Noura <n-taweel@...> wrote: > ** > > > > Hello, > We're having a huge outage, the electricity was off for 22 hours during > the last 31 hours. NO WATER EITHER! I only have the roof reservoire's water > and I haven't checked its level yet. > All 4 tanks were okey up till last night "it's 3 pm here in Syria now", > but today I found 2 dead fancy guppies in the 6G, and the third female > guppy is suffering. > The cichlid tank is doing great, considering the circumstances. > The 20G. community tank looks fine, but I lost one molly fry. > I moved the molly fry from the jar to the 20 G. I thought it's safer for > them. > > Back to the 6G, I took some measurments: > Nitrate 80 "It was due to a water change 2 days ago but the water is off" > Nitrite 0 > Ammonia 0.25 > > What do you recommend? I can sacrifice some water to save the fish. But > really should do the minimum as I don't know how much water do I have left > in the reservoire. Will try to check later when I get the keys. > > Thanks! > Noura > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54049	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!

Any surface movement to exchange the tank "surface" with the water column - the better the Oxygen in the water column. The larger tanks tend to stratify and need help to move the water around to get the surface air. Smaller tanks are in real trouble because of the quick build up of urine (Ammonia) and the numbers of fish per gallon can be a deadly problem. Baking Soda and salt help in small tanks to stabilize the pH prevent NitrITE build up. Salt in the water helps the fish's kidneys to maintain the correct osmotic pressure. Wash your sponge filters as soon as you are able to do so. The Bacteria are mostly dead but not gone. You can bring everything back to life. Been There and Done That! Charles Harrison, Chairman BOT American Killifish Association > We're having a huge outage, the electricity was off for 22 hours during > > the last 31 hours. NO WATER EITHER! I only have the roof reservoire's water >> and I haven't checked its level yet. >> All 4 tanks were okey up till last night "it's 3 pm here in Syria now", >> but today I found 2 dead fancy guppies in the 6G, and the third female >> guppy is suffering. >> The cichlid tank is doing great, considering the circumstances. >> The 20G. community tank looks fine, but I lost one molly fry. >> I moved the molly fry from the jar to the 20 G. I thought it's safer for >> them. >> >> Back to the 6G, I took some measurments: >> Nitrate 80 "It was due to a water change 2 days ago but the water is off" >> Nitrite 0 >> Ammonia 0.25 >> >> What do you recommend? I can sacrifice some water to save the fish. But >> really should do the minimum as I don't know how much water do I have left >> in the reservoire. Will try to check later when I get the keys. >> >> Thanks! > > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54050	From: Noura	Date: 9/24/2012
Subject: Re: Outage! My fish are dying!

Thanks for the replies. The salt tip looks promising! I added some salt to the 6G after doing a 50% water change, and the female guppy that was almost dying is back to life! We had our water back during the night "it's 8 am here now", and I think the power will be back to the usual schedule during the conflicts "that is 6 hours aday of power outage everyday divided into 2 times, the fish did okey with that schedule now that the heat is down". The reservoire is almost sealed and used on a daily basis, I use it for everything in the house including PWCs for the fish tanks, and the main tap water is loaded with Chlorin. So now that I have as much water as I want, I would appreciate a plan for what to do next, now that the nitrifying bacteria must be all dead. I'm off to work now, and will be back in 6 hours and ready to do whatever is needed to give the fish the best water conditions that I can under these circumstances. Note: I already did a 50% PWC to the 6G, and 25% PWC to the 20G community tank yesterday with the little water that I had left in the reservoire. Ray, I would like to read your suggestions too. You helped me tremendously in the previous years to overcome the lack of fish equipments with alternative ideas. Thanks to all, Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Any surface movement to exchange the tank "surface" with the water > column - the better the Oxygen in the water column. > > The larger tanks tend to stratify and need help to move the water > around to get the surface air. > > Smaller tanks are in real trouble because of the quick build up of > urine (Ammonia) and the numbers of fish per gallon can be a deadly > problem. > > Baking Soda and salt help in small tanks to stabilize the pH prevent > NitrITE build up. Salt in the water helps the fish's kidneys to > maintain the correct osmotic pressure. > > Wash your sponge filters as soon as you are able to do so. The > Bacteria are mostly dead but not gone. You can bring everything back > to life. > > Been There and Done That! > > Charles Harrison, > Chairman BOT > American Killifish Association > > > > > We're having a huge outage, the electricity was off for 22 hours during > > > the last 31 hours. NO WATER EITHER! I only have the roof reservoire's water > >> and I haven't checked its level yet. > >> All 4 tanks were okey up till last night "it's 3 pm here in Syria now", > >> but today I found 2 dead fancy guppies in the 6G, and the third female > >> guppy is suffering. > >> The cichlid tank is doing great, considering the circumstances. > >> The 20G. community tank looks fine, but I lost one molly fry. > >> I moved the molly fry from the jar to the 20 G. I thought it's safer for > >> them. > >> > >> Back to the 6G, I took some measurments: > >> Nitrate 80 "It was due to a water change 2 days ago but the water is off" > >> Nitrite 0 > >> Ammonia 0.25 > >> > >> What do you recommend? I can sacrifice some water to save the fish. But > >> really should do the minimum as I don't know how much water do I have left > >> in the reservoire. Will try to check later when I get the keys. > >> > >> Thanks! > > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54051	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/27/2012
Subject: X2.

Two times I say. Two times the water. After not being able to find a part for my telescope that I wanted; I decided that, the birthday money can make itself quite at home in another hobby.... the water shall be doubled. The 20 gallon tank will be replaced with a 40... breeder most call it. 36', 18', 16' It will fit nicely on the antique table we use. And my wife is right on board with the project, win, win. :-)>>> I'll need a tank, hood, light combo, another 100w heater, and a bag of gravel. I have lots of decorations, ect... cuzz I like to change stuff around. I'm thinkin this will allow for a couple more platies, and or corries and either 1 angelfish or blood red parrot cichlid. 2 questions. 1. Mix the gravel together? old stuff on top or botttom? Doesn't matter? 2. If I could find someone in town to buy my old tank.... would it be worthwile rushing it to its new home? Would it save much cycling time? Would the bio matter on the glass have such a short shelf/travel life, as to make it inconsequential. Thanks. Al. There may be a pic or two in the future. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54052	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.

Hi Al, Whatever fish you keep a larger amount of water & therefore swimming space is always good. Regarding the gravel, if the new gravel is the same type as the old then by all means gently mix them together so that the good bugs on the established stuff can colonise the new. If you want to replace the old gravel with a different colour or type then make some pantyhose sausages of the old gravel & lay them on the new gravel so the seeding process can take place & after a couple of weeks you can take the sausages out & you have nicely seeded new gravel. Regarding your second question, if the tank you are getting rid of is glass then make sure it is almost completely drained before attempting to move it or it will break because the seals are not strong enough for the pressure. Only keep enough water in it to just cover the gravel in the bottom & even then try to move it on a rigid board so there is no sideways movement or strain on the corner seals. Any larger items of decor or plants should be transported separately in buckets of old tank water. You would also need to refill the tank & start up a cycled filter within a few hours to get some oxygenation going or you risk the good bacteria dying off. I don't think the algae on the glass would have any significant effect as long as you have a cycled filter &/or gravel in the tank & having the tank almost empty would be a good opportunity to clean the glass. Generally if the residue on the glass is anything but green then clean it off but green is good although it can look messy. John*<o)))< * On 27 September 2012 21:02, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Two times I say. > Two times the water. > After not being able to find a part for my telescope that > I wanted; I decided that, the birthday money can make itself > quite at home in another hobby.... the water shall be doubled. > The 20 gallon tank will be replaced with a 40... breeder most call it. > 36', 18', 16' > It will fit nicely on the antique table we use. > And my wife is right on board > with the project, win, win. :-)>>> > I'll need a tank, hood, light combo, another 100w heater, > and a bag of gravel. I have lots of decorations, ect... > cuzz I like to change stuff around. > I'm thinkin this will allow for a couple more platies, > and or corries and either 1 angelfish or > blood red parrot cichlid. > 2 questions. > 1. Mix the gravel together? old stuff on top or botttom? > Doesn't matter? > 2. If I could find someone in town to buy my old tank.... > would it be worthwile rushing it to its new home? > Would it save much cycling time? > Would the bio matter on the glass have such a short > shelf/travel life, as to make it inconsequential. > > Thanks. > Al. There may be a pic or two in the future. > :-)>>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54053	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.

Al, The old gravel on top -- and then, mainly the top 1/2" layer of the old gravel. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54054	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Need some advice

Hi All, Gotta tell you that I am stumped. My 50 gallon tank, which has been running with the same fish, convicts and Dempseys for almost 2 years with no problems. I did a water change last week and everything kinda just crapped ou. Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. Have done 5 or 6 partial changes and replaced the Purigen again. Any thoughts about what happened and what else I can do? After a change, they swim around like normal but end up on the bottom. Thanks, Steve PS will have all the numbers tomorrow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54055	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.

Thanks folks. I'll just be selling the old tank, hood and light; all the contents and filter will be transfered. I also keep my glass pretty clean... I scrape it down with a plastic card once a week...[ my fishing licence from last year actually.... I don't think they get the irony though.. :-)>>> ] So as thats the case, there probably won't be enough seed material to worry about or tell anyone of... I'll just tell them about cycling ... if they will listen...tank for sale $__ ... includes some expertise I have in setting it up... lol. Q3 I do have another question... this will all happen next week, and I like to be prepared. The old industrial table we use is quite strong enough I'm sure... it looks to be early 20th century...[ I threw a pic of it in my folder ] It is 44 x 21 inches, the legs are sturdy, and the wood its made of, including the two planks that make up its top, are a full inch thick hardwood.... we may even stick a small dresser under it for more storage, if we can find one that fits under fairly snug. The thing that concerns me more with the 36 x 18 tank.... as opposed to the 20 g. tank, is that the table top is not perfectly flat. It sags a bit down the center of the length of it; anywhere from 1/8 to a 1/4 inch from its highest point; so I'm thinking I should put a few shims at each end of the tank, and gently hammer them tight. Has anyone done this before? and would it be wood shims that would be recommended? Would any wood do? I'm thinking I may also fill in under the glass with some styrofoam or?? any other suggestions... oops does that make it Q4? :-)>>> Thanks again. As soon as I hit send I will probably think of another question.. nice to have this pool of knoledge though. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Whatever fish you keep a larger amount of water & therefore swimming > space is always good. Regarding the gravel, if the new gravel is the same > type as the old then by all means gently mix them together so that the good > bugs on the established stuff can colonise the new. If you want to replace > the old gravel with a different colour or type then make some pantyhose > sausages of the old gravel & lay them on the new gravel so the seeding > process can take place & after a couple of weeks you can take the sausages > out & you have nicely seeded new gravel. > > Regarding your second question, if the tank you are getting rid of is glass > then make sure it is almost completely drained before attempting to move it > or it will break because the seals are not strong enough for the pressure. > Only keep enough water in it to just cover the gravel in the bottom & even > then try to move it on a rigid board so there is no sideways movement or > strain on the corner seals. Any larger items of decor or plants should be > transported separately in buckets of old tank water. You would also need to > refill the tank & start up a cycled filter within a few hours to get some > oxygenation going or you risk the good bacteria dying off. I don't think > the algae on the glass would have any significant effect as long as you > have a cycled filter &/or gravel in the tank & having the tank almost empty > would be a good opportunity to clean the glass. Generally if the residue on > the glass is anything but green then clean it off but green is good > although it can look messy. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 27 September 2012 21:02, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Two times I say. > > Two times the water. > > After not being able to find a part for my telescope that > > I wanted; I decided that, the birthday money can make itself > > quite at home in another hobby.... the water shall be doubled. > > The 20 gallon tank will be replaced with a 40... breeder most call it. > > 36', 18', 16' > > It will fit nicely on the antique table we use. > > And my wife is right on board > > with the project, win, win. :-)>>> > > I'll need a tank, hood, light combo, another 100w heater, > > and a bag of gravel. I have lots of decorations, ect... > > cuzz I like to change stuff around. > > I'm thinkin this will allow for a couple more platies, > > and or corries and either 1 angelfish or > > blood red parrot cichlid. > > 2 questions. > > 1. Mix the gravel together? old stuff on top or botttom? > > Doesn't matter? > > 2. If I could find someone in town to buy my old tank.... > > would it be worthwile rushing it to its new home? > > Would it save much cycling time? > > Would the bio matter on the glass have such a short > > shelf/travel life, as to make it inconsequential. > > > > Thanks. > > Al. There may be a pic or two in the future. > > :-)>>> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54056	From: m davis	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

uh, stupid question: did u use a water conditioner on the new water, or let it sit for half an hour??  monica   ________________________________ From: "parkpac@..." <parkpac@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 9:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Need some advice Hi All, Gotta tell you that I am stumped. My 50 gallon tank, which has been running with the same fish, convicts and Dempseys for almost 2 years with no problems. I did a water change last week and everything kinda just crapped ou. Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. Have done 5 or 6 partial changes and replaced the Purigen again. Any thoughts about what happened and what else I can do? After a change, they  swim around like normal but end up on the bottom. Thanks, Steve PS will have all the numbers tomorrow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54057	From: harry perry	Date: 9/29/2012
Subject: Steve........SteveRe: [AquaticLife] Need some advice

Best thing to do is wait for the numbers so we're not spinning our wheels. Let's not waste time. You could lose these fish. Harry ________________________________ From: "parkpac@..." <parkpac@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 10:09 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Need some advice   Hi All, Gotta tell you that I am stumped. My 50 gallon tank, which has been running with the same fish, convicts and Dempseys for almost 2 years with no problems. I did a water change last week and everything kinda just crapped ou. Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. Have done 5 or 6 partial changes and replaced the Purigen again. Any thoughts about what happened and what else I can do? After a change, they swim around like normal but end up on the bottom. Thanks, Steve PS will have all the numbers tomorrow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54058	From: p.seadoo	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Danner Supreme Superking filter

I just stopped using my SuperKing and it is in perfect condition. My new home is just too small for the size tank. If any one is interested let me know. Peter C. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dougforne@..." <2186436@...> wrote: > > Ya I know had them in the 70s 80s 90s love them, been looking all over the place for some old ones. Lucked out on this one, I gentleman passed away in Ohio and wife was selling everything, went with a buddy 2 look at all the stuff and there was a lot of stuff. Well my buddy seen it first and got it. Well LOL he had eyes for some of my Angles, so it was a win win for me. And I will never part with this one, when the motor goes on it I will have it rebuilt. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54059	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Fw: [AquaticLife] Need some advice

Hi All, Gotta tell you that I am stumped. My 50 gallon tank, which has been running with the same fish, convicts and Dempseys for almost 2 years with no problems. I did a water change last week and everything kinda just crapped ou. Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. Have done 5 or 6 partial changes and replaced the Purigen again. Any thoughts about what happened and what else I can do? After a change, they swim around like normal but end up on the bottom. Thanks, Steve PS will have all the numbers tomorrow [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54060	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.

Hi Al, Don't you mean to put the shims near the middle rather than the end of the tank because it is in the centre of the tank that you have the space if I'm understanding the problem right? I occasionally set up a small 15 gallon hospital tank on a coffee table, that also sags in the middle so I put in a couple of small timbers in the middle that are exactly the same height as the legs at the ends & that takes care of the sag. Another solution would be to pack the space in the middle of the tank with something like polystyrene or expanded foam but you need to ensure the weight of the tank is not going to further deform the table top or you could end up with the tank just being supported at either end which would put a great deal of strain on it. Personally I would go for the supporting timbers if that is a viable option. John*<o)))<* On 30 September 2012 03:53, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks folks. > I'll just be selling the old tank, hood and light; all the contents and > filter will be transfered. I also keep my glass pretty clean... I scrape it > down with a plastic card once a week...[ my fishing licence from last year > actually.... I don't think they get the irony though.. :-)>>> ] > So as thats the case, there probably won't be enough seed material to > worry about or tell anyone of... I'll just tell them about cycling ... if > they will listen...tank for sale $__ ... includes some expertise I have in > setting it up... lol. > Q3 > I do have another question... this will all happen next week, and I like > to be prepared. > The old industrial table we use is quite strong enough I'm sure... it > looks to be early 20th century...[ I threw a pic of it in my folder ] It is > 44 x 21 inches, the legs are sturdy, and the wood its made of, including > the two planks that make up its top, are a full inch thick hardwood.... we > may even stick a small dresser under it for more storage, if we can find > one that fits under fairly snug. > The thing that concerns me more with the 36 x 18 tank.... as opposed to > the 20 g. tank, is that the table top is not perfectly flat. It sags a bit > down the center of the length of it; anywhere from 1/8 to a 1/4 inch from > its highest point; so I'm thinking I should put a few shims at each end of > the tank, and gently hammer them tight. > Has anyone done this before? and would it be wood shims that would be > recommended? Would any wood do? > I'm thinking I may also fill in under the glass with some styrofoam or?? > any other suggestions... oops does that make it Q4? :-)>>> > > Thanks again. > As soon as I hit send I will probably think of another question.. nice to > have this pool of knoledge though. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Whatever fish you keep a larger amount of water & therefore swimming > > space is always good. Regarding the gravel, if the new gravel is the same > > type as the old then by all means gently mix them together so that the > good > > bugs on the established stuff can colonise the new. If you want to > replace > > the old gravel with a different colour or type then make some pantyhose > > sausages of the old gravel & lay them on the new gravel so the seeding > > process can take place & after a couple of weeks you can take the > sausages > > out & you have nicely seeded new gravel. > > > > Regarding your second question, if the tank you are getting rid of is > glass > > then make sure it is almost completely drained before attempting to move > it > > or it will break because the seals are not strong enough for the > pressure. > > Only keep enough water in it to just cover the gravel in the bottom & > even > > then try to move it on a rigid board so there is no sideways movement or > > strain on the corner seals. Any larger items of decor or plants should be > > transported separately in buckets of old tank water. You would also need > to > > refill the tank & start up a cycled filter within a few hours to get some > > oxygenation going or you risk the good bacteria dying off. I don't think > > the algae on the glass would have any significant effect as long as you > > have a cycled filter &/or gravel in the tank & having the tank almost > empty > > would be a good opportunity to clean the glass. Generally if the residue > on > > the glass is anything but green then clean it off but green is good > > although it can look messy. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > On 27 September 2012 21:02, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Two times I say. > > > Two times the water. > > > After not being able to find a part for my telescope that > > > I wanted; I decided that, the birthday money can make itself > > > quite at home in another hobby.... the water shall be doubled. > > > The 20 gallon tank will be replaced with a 40... breeder most call it. > > > 36', 18', 16' > > > It will fit nicely on the antique table we use. > > > And my wife is right on board > > > with the project, win, win. :-)>>> > > > I'll need a tank, hood, light combo, another 100w heater, > > > and a bag of gravel. I have lots of decorations, ect... > > > cuzz I like to change stuff around. > > > I'm thinkin this will allow for a couple more platies, > > > and or corries and either 1 angelfish or > > > blood red parrot cichlid. > > > 2 questions. > > > 1. Mix the gravel together? old stuff on top or botttom? > > > Doesn't matter? > > > 2. If I could find someone in town to buy my old tank.... > > > would it be worthwile rushing it to its new home? > > > Would it save much cycling time? > > > Would the bio matter on the glass have such a short > > > shelf/travel life, as to make it inconsequential. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Al. There may be a pic or two in the future. > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54061	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54062	From: Al Keep	Date: 9/30/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.

Hi John. Nope, the table sags a bit in the center if you look down the end along the length. that would be the better of the two I would think, since the longer of the tank sides sit flat. I'll get some small wooden shims, [wedges], since you have had success with that. Ya you're right; I won't bother with the foam, I'm sure they make the bottom glass plenty strong enough. Thanks John. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Don't you mean to put the shims near the middle rather than the end of > the tank because it is in the centre of the tank that you have the space if > I'm understanding the problem right? I occasionally set up a small 15 > gallon hospital tank on a coffee table, that also sags in the middle so I > put in a couple of small timbers in the middle that are exactly the same > height as the legs at the ends & that takes care of the sag. > > Another solution would be to pack the space in the middle of the tank with > something like polystyrene or expanded foam but you need to ensure the > weight of the tank is not going to further deform the table top or you > could end up with the tank just being supported at either end which would > put a great deal of strain on it. Personally I would go for the supporting > timbers if that is a viable option. > > John*<o)))<* >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54063	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: X2.... Q#3.

I would not use anything as a stand that did not evenly support the frame of the tank. I would not trust shims unless they are under the furniture, not under the tank. Further, the supports should not be the middle of the span of a table top or dresser top the legs and frame of the “stand” should be directly under the frame of the tank. The bottom glass is very strong if evenly supported and bearing a heavy weight. If there is the slightest twist (check with a level, not your eye) in the support, it creates stress on the silicone joints of the tank and over time they give way. The glass can crack too. Torsion is your enemy. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: X2.... Q#3. Hi John. Nope, the table sags a bit in the center if you look down the end along the length. that would be the better of the two I would think, since the longer of the tank sides sit flat. I'll get some small wooden shims, [wedges], since you have had success with that. Ya you're right; I won't bother with the foam, I'm sure they make the bottom glass plenty strong enough. Thanks John. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Don't you mean to put the shims near the middle rather than the end of > the tank because it is in the centre of the tank that you have the space if > I'm understanding the problem right? I occasionally set up a small 15 > gallon hospital tank on a coffee table, that also sags in the middle so I > put in a couple of small timbers in the middle that are exactly the same > height as the legs at the ends & that takes care of the sag. > > Another solution would be to pack the space in the middle of the tank with > something like polystyrene or expanded foam but you need to ensure the > weight of the tank is not going to further deform the table top or you > could end up with the tank just being supported at either end which would > put a great deal of strain on it. Personally I would go for the supporting > timbers if that is a viable option. > > John*<o)))<* > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54064	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54065	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Flower Horn Escaping in Tank

Hi Experts, I just bought FlowerHorn and keep it in same tank with small size Cichlids. I have noticed that it was perfectly fine in 90 Gallon tank for 2 / 3 days but now he is most of the time escape in Tank specially under the rocks or in the corner near Under Gravel Filter. This thing is mostly observed when I put the Aquarium Light ON. Can you please share your expertise if something is wrong or how can I keep my FlowerHorn Healthy. Thanks! Regards, Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54066	From: joe t	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: LIVE ROCK

Hello Everybody: A little while back I had asked "what is live rock?" I never got a reply. Not being into salt water aquaria I was not familiar with it. So I looked it up for myself at Wikipedia. In case anyone else is interested (but was afraid to ask ;o) )here is the link. It's interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_rock joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54067	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/1/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Hi Donna,Ray and group Pretty sure that it’s not cottonmouth. There were about a dozen fish, convicts and Dempseys, that I had there for a year and a half. Did a PWc. They looked as if the were burned.White areas on the bodies, eyes were fungusy(new word) and had white stuff around the mouth. Did 5 PWC but the fish all died. There are about 5 still swimming around but mainly on the bottom. Any other ideas. Ray, do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54068	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Sounds exactly like columnaris. Why you do you it's not? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna,Ray and group Pretty sure that it's not cottonmouth. There were about a dozen fish, convicts and Dempseys, that I had there for a year and a half. Did a PWc. They looked as if the were burned.White areas on the bodies, eyes were fungusy(new word) and had white stuff around the mouth. Did 5 PWC but the fish all died. There are about 5 still swimming around but mainly on the bottom. Any other ideas. Ray, do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54069	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Sorry for the typo.why do you think it's not columnaris? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 5:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Sounds exactly like columnaris. Why you do you it's not? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of parkpac@... <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna,Ray and group Pretty sure that it's not cottonmouth. There were about a dozen fish, convicts and Dempseys, that I had there for a year and a half. Did a PWc. They looked as if the were burned.White areas on the bodies, eyes were fungusy(new word) and had white stuff around the mouth. Did 5 PWC but the fish all died. There are about 5 still swimming around but mainly on the bottom. Any other ideas. Ray, do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54070	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Steve, I thought you were asked for your water parameters a day or maybe two days ago, but I can't find the message that may have asked that. Perhaps this was asked of another member here instead, who had a fish illness problem. In any case, whenever having a fish problem having to do with them being sick and/or dying, please always give us all of your water parameter readings (in numbers, of course). If you want help, you need to supply us with something to go on. We can't just grab a diagnoses out of thin air when the water these fishes live in have everything to do with their health. I realize now though, after your making 5 or 6 PWC's (were they "partial"?), that the water parameters probably now check out fine, but then too, there may be something either wrong with your tap water at this present time -- OR, the way you're describing this, possibly a large change from your previous water parameters to your new water's parameters. Letting us know your normal maintenance regimen would be a big help too, like how often you make PWC's and how much. Without much else to go on, it might appear that an external bacteria infection has set in -- which would need a gram-negative/broad-spectrum antibiotic to treat; "broad-spectrum" in this case meaning it will treat against some gram-positive bacteria, but is mainly focused on gram-negative pathogens. I'm leaning on your previous water building up dissolved organic wastes (ammonia, nitrite, etc.) or a large change in pH as a possible cause for this, but it's way too premature to say exactly as it would only be speculation. BTW, we'd like to know what type -- by NAME -- of water conditioner you use. The Purigen you're using can be destroyed by any conditioner having slime promoting properties -- such as Stress Coat and the like.. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54071	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Hi Donna,Ray and group, When I first looked at some pictures of columnaris , my fish looked much different but that may be because the disease had just started. You could be right. Looking at the ones that are left, similar symptoms are present. If it is columnaris, what treatment do you recommend.Ray mentioned in another post about a gram-negative antibiotic to treat this. What names should I be looking for? Will the fish that are left respond to this treatment or are they too far gone to save? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Sorry for the typo.why do you think it's not columnaris? _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 5:44 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Sounds exactly like columnaris. Why you do you it's not? _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:28 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna,Ray and group Pretty sure that it's not cottonmouth. There were about a dozen fish, convicts and Dempseys, that I had there for a year and a half. Did a PWc. They looked as if the were burned.White areas on the bodies, eyes were fungusy(new word) and had white stuff around the mouth. Did 5 PWC but the fish all died. There are about 5 still swimming around but mainly on the bottom. Any other ideas. Ray, do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:35 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54072	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Steve, You haven't replied with your water parameters, and I'm curious to know why. It would help us a lot in determining just what's going on and to know if the circumstances would be prone to developing Columnaris. Neither, have you responded to what kind of water conditioner you use. and this is important for both of us to know, as it's possible your fishes may have been poisoned. Stress Coat contains Amines (Base Polymers). Purigen is a Resin (Ion-Exchange Resin -- a blend of natural and synthetic resins). Together, they're potentially toxic. Amines and Ion-Exchange Resins are a bad mix. If you use Stress Coat, it's most likely this toxicity reached lethal proportions and killed your fishes, but I still don't know if this is what you used. Could you enlighten us on that? As for treating against Columnaris (Flexibacteria), the medications of choice are two, with a third one also extremely good. The first choice would be Kanamycin Sulfate combined with Nitrofurazone. The second, and just about as equally effective is Furan II (Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone and Methylene Blue Trihydrate). Also extremely effective is Oxolinic Acid. As with any other medications, a partial water change sholuld first be done, but I note you've done 5 already. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54073	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Quick update

Hi Ray, Sorry that I have not gotten back to you yet. Been working remotely while the contractors finish my yard and deck..I will try to get the readings and post them. I have been using Amquel Plus.Seems odd that the tank with the hardiest fish gets columnaris while the 3 others are fine.The day after the PWC is when all Hell broke loose. I do a water change every 2 weeks. The fish were healthy and swimming around ,waiting for food. One of my fish buddies suggested adding Tetra SafeStart immediately to replenish the bacteria. He also suggested that I add NovaAqua water conditioner to help the slime coat. By the time I get home, he will have added both. What is my next step? Do I need to add the medication too? Water change how soon and how much? Thanks, Steve From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:16 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Steve, You haven't replied with your water parameters, and I'm curious to know why. It would help us a lot in determining just what's going on and to know if the circumstances would be prone to developing Columnaris. Neither, have you responded to what kind of water conditioner you use. and this is important for both of us to know, as it's possible your fishes may have been poisoned. Stress Coat contains Amines (Base Polymers). Purigen is a Resin (Ion-Exchange Resin -- a blend of natural and synthetic resins). Together, they're potentially toxic. Amines and Ion-Exchange Resins are a bad mix. If you use Stress Coat, it's most likely this toxicity reached lethal proportions and killed your fishes, but I still don't know if this is what you used. Could you enlighten us on that? As for treating against Columnaris (Flexibacteria), the medications of choice are two, with a third one also extremely good. The first choice would be Kanamycin Sulfate combined with Nitrofurazone. The second, and just about as equally effective is Furan II (Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone and Methylene Blue Trihydrate). Also extremely effective is Oxolinic Acid. As with any other medications, a partial water change sholuld first be done, but I note you've done 5 already. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54074	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

I used Maracyn and Maracyn2 simultaneously with some success. It made the lesions go away at least. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:28 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna,Ray and group, When I first looked at some pictures of columnaris , my fish looked much different but that may be because the disease had just started. You could be right. Looking at the ones that are left, similar symptoms are present. If it is columnaris, what treatment do you recommend.Ray mentioned in another post about a gram-negative antibiotic to treat this. What names should I be looking for? Will the fish that are left respond to this treatment or are they too far gone to save? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 3:37 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Sorry for the typo.why do you think it's not columnaris? _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Ransome Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 5:44 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Sounds exactly like columnaris. Why you do you it's not? _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net <mailto:parkpac%40earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 9:28 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna,Ray and group Pretty sure that it's not cottonmouth. There were about a dozen fish, convicts and Dempseys, that I had there for a year and a half. Did a PWc. They looked as if the were burned.White areas on the bodies, eyes were fungusy(new word) and had white stuff around the mouth. Did 5 PWC but the fish all died. There are about 5 still swimming around but mainly on the bottom. Any other ideas. Ray, do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks, Steve From: Donna Ransome Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:35 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Cotton mouth is a common name for columnaris. I did not find the fish to be lethargic with this disease, although it did eventually kill the fish. Is the mustache fuzzy or smooth? Cichlids can get smooth white lips from lip-lock fighting or scraping algae off rocks. This is harmless. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:24 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice There is a fish disease, some call "cotton mouth" ? --- Most of the fish are sitting on the bottom and some have what looks like a white mustache arounf their mouth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54075	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

Hi Donna, While Maracyn II (Minocycline) wouldn't be my first choice, it's an excellent primarily-gram-negative, broad-spectrum antibiotic -- which would work well against Columnaris. I see you're trying to cover all bases by also using Maracyn < g >, but as this (Erythromycin) broad-spectrum anitibiotic treats primarily against gram-positive, it's really of little use against Columnaris. I might clarify, that most often "broad-spectrum" really means that the antibiotic will be somewhat effective against some bacteria opposite of what they primarily treat against, but that effect is not very wide spread (it won't treat against most bacteria other than what it's meant to treat -- at least not very effecvtively if it does treat at all). It really serves no purpose to use both a gram-negative bacticide and a gram-positive bacticide, and any medications that are not needed should be avoided since, as we know, using them arbitrarily will reduce their effectiveness when they are needed. Since any treatment using an antibiotic having the property to treat the opposite pole than what you're actually treating for will only increase the virility of those bacteria we're not treating for as they gain an immunity to them, they should always be avoided and not used indiscriminantly. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54076	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Quick update

Steve, Yes, some readings might help, even though not entirely as we would still have no way of knowing what your numbers werre before doing the water change. If you have some idea of what your tank's water parameters generally are, you may know if the tap water you added is any different from that of your aquarium. With you having no problem up until you changed the water, this could suggest that there may have been some significant difference in one or more of your parameters as compared to those of your tap water. Sometimes, water companies change from one supply to another if they have multiple sources, and their other sources may be quite different from what they usually supply. While I never indicated that your remaining fishes have Columnaris, I still feel that their present condition was due to a major shock/change in one of the new water's parameters -- possible a large enough change in pH, or possibly an increase in ammonia as combined in their chloramine. While you haven't shown any pics of these fishes, your description sounds like patches of slime was removed from parts of their bodies, making them prone to a bacterial infection (although not necessarily Columnaris). Still need to see the numbers though. Your changing relatively small quantities of water with each PWC -- if you've been doing this -- could have caused a drop in your tank's pH without you realizing it (since it seems you haven't really been testing for anything). If a large enough difference in pH happens, like the water company suddenly supplying water at pH 7.8 or 8.0, and your water has drop into the acid range, this would be more than enough to highly stress your fish to the extend your saying -- even killing them. Before doing another PWC, check the tank's water parameters as well as those of the tap water. By now, after doing 5 other PWC's, I don't suspect that there would now be much difference but at least you'll know what kind of water your being supplied with. If the pH is the same, and if the ammonia and nitrite in the tank is at Zero, there's no need to do a further water change. Medicate the fish with one of the following; Kanamycin, Maracyn II (TWO) or Furan II (TWO). The NovAqua that was added is unlike the Stress Coat I mentioned as far as I'm aware, and while it will also promote a slime coat it does not contain Aloe Vera (as in Stress Coat) so it won't interact with your Purigen. No need to worry about this conditioner. NovAqua instead, contains an Echinacae colloid to promote a slime coating rather than Aloe Vera with which this latter ingredient acts by irritating the fish skin to promote addition slime. I might add too while on this subject, that the Aloe Vera found in Stress Coat has been reported to also coat the fishes' gill membranes, making it more difficult for them to breathe. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54077	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Questions and numbers

Hi Ray, Managed to get some test results. Ammonia tested at 0,nitrate was less than 5 and the pH came in around 5.8.Will do another test later tonight too. There are 5 fish left . They periodically swim around but still not like before. Should I do another water change tonight? I am going to pick up the antibiotics tomorrow. Running a Rena3 Filstar on this tank. Should I turn off the filter after I medicate them? If so, for how long? Can put a smaller HOB for the short term if you think that will help. What do you think about adding another fish on Friday if everything stays the same? That will tell me if the tank is back to normal. Thanks, Steve From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 8:07 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quick update Steve, Yes, some readings might help, even though not entirely as we would still have no way of knowing what your numbers werre before doing the water change. If you have some idea of what your tank's water parameters generally are, you may know if the tap water you added is any different from that of your aquarium. With you having no problem up until you changed the water, this could suggest that there may have been some significant difference in one or more of your parameters as compared to those of your tap water. Sometimes, water companies change from one supply to another if they have multiple sources, and their other sources may be quite different from what they usually supply. While I never indicated that your remaining fishes have Columnaris, I still feel that their present condition was due to a major shock/change in one of the new water's parameters -- possible a large enough change in pH, or possibly an increase in ammonia as combined in their chloramine. While you haven't shown any pics of these fishes, your description sounds like patches of slime was removed from parts of their bodies, making them prone to a bacterial infection (although not necessarily Columnaris). Still need to see the numbers though. Your changing relatively small quantities of water with each PWC -- if you've been doing this -- could have caused a drop in your tank's pH without you realizing it (since it seems you haven't really been testing for anything). If a large enough difference in pH happens, like the water company suddenly supplying water at pH 7.8 or 8.0, and your water has drop into the acid range, this would be more than enough to highly stress your fish to the extend your saying -- even killing them. Before doing another PWC, check the tank's water parameters as well as those of the tap water. By now, after doing 5 other PWC's, I don't suspect that there would now be much difference but at least you'll know what kind of water your being supplied with. If the pH is the same, and if the ammonia and nitrite in the tank is at Zero, there's no need to do a further water change. Medicate the fish with one of the following; Kanamycin, Maracyn II (TWO) or Furan II (TWO). The NovAqua that was added is unlike the Stress Coat I mentioned as far as I'm aware, and while it will also promote a slime coat it does not contain Aloe Vera (as in Stress Coat) so it won't interact with your Purigen. No need to worry about this conditioner. NovAqua instead, contains an Echinacae colloid to promote a slime coating rather than Aloe Vera with which this latter ingredient acts by irritating the fish skin to promote addition slime. I might add too while on this subject, that the Aloe Vera found in Stress Coat has been reported to also coat the fishes' gill membranes, making it more difficult for them to breathe. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54078	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: MODERATE -- parkpac@earthlink.net posted to AquaticLife

Hi Steve, I'm assuming these test results are for your aquarium water. Now, please give us test results for your tap water. It comes as no surprise that your tank has no ammonia and that your nitrate is only 5.0 ppm, after making 5 water changes, but at least we know this much. That your pH is at 5.8 after making five water changes tells me either that your tap water is especially acid or that your tank water was far more acid than it is now. It's highly unusual for tap water to have a pH 5.8 value -- only because the water companies most often try to keep the pH above neutral so that it doesn't erode their pipes. At a pH of 5.8, this is far from normal yet, so don't even think about adding another fish; why rush it? You can make another PWC, but I'd like to know how much water you consider to be a normal water change. I asked you to give us your schedule of your maintenance regimen -- how often and how much water you change at any one time -- but you haven't answered that. I still need that information. You can keep your canister filter running. If you have any carbon in it, remove it. Use Furan II to medicate as it's advertised not to harm the nitrifying bacteria. Remember, give us your tap water test results, and give us your tank water test results after doing this water change. If you have a nitrite test kit, test for that also. What kind of fish are these five remaining ones and what were the fish that died? How large is your tank, and how many fish (and what size) did you have in there before this happened? We need as much info as you can provide. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54079	From: Amber	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?

Hey, I've got a fifty five gallon tank that's empty and needs some fish. I've done a little researching and have come up with this list. What do you think of it? # Fish (Size of Fish) 8 Mollies (Up to 3 inches) 8 Tiger Barbs (3 inches 8 Cherry Barbs (3 inches) 2 or so Mystery Snails 1 Red Tailed Black Shark (4+ inches) I asked this question on answers and some people were telling me the mollies would grow up to 6+ inches! Someone else said the tiger barbs would be aggressive in such large groups but the truth is, from what I've heard, tiger barbs are less aggressive when kept in large groups. Does anyone have any suggestions or problems with my list? Oh, the filters on the tank are a AquaClear 50 and a Tetra Whisper 10-30i. Thank you!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54080	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Update

Hi Ray, Just lost 2 of remaining 5. Now there are 2 small convicts and 1 medium Dempsey. I sent you a picture and movie of one of the dead ones too .It came from my other email address. pH from the tap is 7.8 ,tank is 5.8 Nitrate looks to be around 2.5mg Ammonia is 0. Tank is 50 gallons with an inch and a half of gravel. I generally change 5 gallons every 2 weeks. Had 12 fish, convicts and Dempseys. Dempseys were around 3 inches as were the big convicts. All were together for the last 1.5 years Would it be better to start this tank all over again? Will the bacteria that killed all of these fish remain in the tank? Thanks, Steve From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:18 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: MODERATE -- parkpac@... posted to AquaticLife Hi Steve, I'm assuming these test results are for your aquarium water. Now, please give us test results for your tap water. It comes as no surprise that your tank has no ammonia and that your nitrate is only 5.0 ppm, after making 5 water changes, but at least we know this much. That your pH is at 5.8 after making five water changes tells me either that your tap water is especially acid or that your tank water was far more acid than it is now. It's highly unusual for tap water to have a pH 5.8 value -- only because the water companies most often try to keep the pH above neutral so that it doesn't erode their pipes. At a pH of 5.8, this is far from normal yet, so don't even think about adding another fish; why rush it? You can make another PWC, but I'd like to know how much water you consider to be a normal water change. I asked you to give us your schedule of your maintenance regimen -- how often and how much water you change at any one time -- but you haven't answered that. I still need that information. You can keep your canister filter running. If you have any carbon in it, remove it. Use Furan II to medicate as it's advertised not to harm the nitrifying bacteria. Remember, give us your tap water test results, and give us your tank water test results after doing this water change. If you have a nitrite test kit, test for that also. What kind of fish are these five remaining ones and what were the fish that died? How large is your tank, and how many fish (and what size) did you have in there before this happened? We need as much info as you can provide. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54081	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Need some advice

The combo was recommended to me, and of the three meds I tried, it worked the best. I also tried a course of triple-sulfa and a course of Kanamycin. Results with those were not as good. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 8:33 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Need some advice Hi Donna, While Maracyn II (Minocycline) wouldn't be my first choice, it's an excellent primarily-gram-negative, broad-spectrum antibiotic -- which would work well against Columnaris. I see you're trying to cover all bases by also using Maracyn < g >, but as this (Erythromycin) broad-spectrum anitibiotic treats primarily against gram-positive, it's really of little use against Columnaris. I might clarify, that most often "broad-spectrum" really means that the antibiotic will be somewhat effective against some bacteria opposite of what they primarily treat against, but that effect is not very wide spread (it won't treat against most bacteria other than what it's meant to treat -- at least not very effecvtively if it does treat at all). It really serves no purpose to use both a gram-negative bacticide and a gram-positive bacticide, and any medications that are not needed should be avoided since, as we know, using them arbitrarily will reduce their effectiveness when they are needed. Since any treatment using an antibiotic having the property to treat the opposite pole than what you're actually treating for will only increase the virility of those bacteria we're not treating for as they gain an immunity to them, they should always be avoided and not used indiscriminantly. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54082	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?

I was under the impression that mollies are "brackish water fish" and don't really belong in a freshwater tank... they won't be happy or do well. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > Hey, I've got a fifty five gallon tank that's empty and needs some fish. I've done a little researching and have come up with this list. What do you think of it? > > # Fish (Size of Fish) > > 8 Mollies (Up to 3 inches) > > 8 Tiger Barbs (3 inches > > 8 Cherry Barbs (3 inches) > > 2 or so Mystery Snails > > 1 Red Tailed Black Shark (4+ inches) > > I asked this question on answers and some people were telling me the mollies would grow up to 6+ inches! Someone else said the tiger barbs would be aggressive in such large groups but the truth is, from what I've heard, tiger barbs are less aggressive when kept in large groups. > > Does anyone have any suggestions or problems with my list? Oh, the filters on the tank are a AquaClear 50 and a Tetra Whisper 10-30i. > > Thank you! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54083	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Update

That comes out to a 10% change every 2 weeks... I change 33% and vacuum twice a week.... if you don't mind the excercize, it can only do your fish well to step it up. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Just lost 2 of remaining 5. Now there are 2 small convicts and 1 medium Dempsey. I sent you a picture and movie of one of the dead ones too .It came from my other email address. > > pH from the tap is 7.8 ,tank is 5.8 Nitrate looks to be around 2.5mg Ammonia is 0. > > Tank is 50 gallons with an inch and a half of gravel. I generally change 5 gallons every 2 weeks. Had 12 fish, convicts and Dempseys. Dempseys were around 3 inches as were the big convicts. All were together for the last 1.5 years > > Would it be better to start this tank all over again? Will the bacteria that killed all of these fish remain in the tank? > > Thanks, Steve > > > > From: sevenspringss@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:18 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: MODERATE -- parkpac@... posted to AquaticLife > > > Hi Steve, > > I'm assuming these test results are for your aquarium water. Now, please > give us test results for your tap water. It comes as no surprise that your > tank has no ammonia and that your nitrate is only 5.0 ppm, after making 5 > water changes, but at least we know this much. That your pH is at 5.8 after > making five water changes tells me either that your tap water is especially > acid or that your tank water was far more acid than it is now. It's highly > unusual for tap water to have a pH 5.8 value -- only because the water > companies most often try to keep the pH above neutral so that it doesn't erode > their pipes. > > At a pH of 5.8, this is far from normal yet, so don't even think about > adding another fish; why rush it? > > You can make another PWC, but I'd like to know how much water you consider > to be a normal water change. I asked you to give us your schedule of your > maintenance regimen -- how often and how much water you change at any one > time -- but you haven't answered that. I still need that information. > > You can keep your canister filter running. If you have any carbon in it, > remove it. Use Furan II to medicate as it's advertised not to harm the > nitrifying bacteria. Remember, give us your tap water test results, and give us > your tank water test results after doing this water change. If you have a > nitrite test kit, test for that also. What kind of fish are these five > remaining ones and what were the fish that died? How large is your tank, and how > many fish (and what size) did you have in there before this happened? We > need as much info as you can provide. > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54084	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: Update

Hi Steve, This whole picture is now starting to shape up. Your tap water test readings tell a lot, when added into the scene with your aquarium's test readings. I gathered early on, that you couldn't immediately supply us with test results, that you rarely if ever tested your water, If you had, you would have seen right away that you pH was far to low to sustain these fish indefinitely under these conditions. Under normal aquarium maintenance, one's aquarium water is very close in pH to that of one's tap water, if large enough and frequent enough PWC's are done. That you already made five partial water changes with tap water of a pH of 7.8 -- and yet your aquarium water was still no higher than pH 5.8 shows that before you did these five water changes, that your pH must have been much lower -- possibly as low as pH 5.4 -- since it would appear that all five of your water changes were probably about 5 gallons each; a substantial amount when done in a very short time. For starters, you need to test yoir water much more frequently. If you'd have done this all along, you would have seen the pH starting to drop way before it reached this dangerous low. That is, If you're aware that these fishes don't belong in water having a pH of 5.4 (or even 5.6). There are very few fishes that can endure a pH this low for any length of time. I don't know what your General Hardness is or even your Carbonate Hardness, but if it was low, you pH could have crashed for all we know. I did see your photo and film, and putting everything together, it sure looks like your fishes were eventually "burned" by water that was too acid -- causing the white patches in the removal of their body slime. Your fishes were not sick, they were just allowed to remain in water that was getting increasingly too acid for a year and a half. This is not in any way meant to degrade you, as I'm trying to help you understand what happened here. I have no idea why you would think that changing water only twice a month was the proper thing to do, and I wish you could tell me as it's certainly not good aquarium maintenance. Neither, is only changing 5 gallons out of a 50 gallon tank when it's stocked that fully. You should have been doing 25% (12 1/2 gallons) water changes -- every week. The pH kept dropping over this last 18 months, creating an environment for these fishes that was getting worse and worse -- despite their apparent good health appearance. That they stopped eating normally should have been the first clue that something was wrong although maybe too late by this time. I don't know if your remaining three fish will make it or not. Don't change any more water at this time, even though their pH needs to be higher, as it would begin to be too much of a change too soon. You may use an antibiotic, but as a prophylactic -- a preventative against any disease which is very possible to occur, and those white patches of slimeless acid-water burned bodily areas are very prone to a bacterial invasion. It's not the white patches that caused the fishes deaths, but the poor water conditions that caused to white patches (and deaths). If these three fish make it, continue changing water at the rate of 5 gallons every other day until the pH reaches 6.8. Then, you can do 10 gallon water changes every two days until the pH reaches 7.8. BTW, please be advised that Dempseys grow to nearly a foot in length and Convicts grow to at least 5" or more (males up to nearly 6"). By this, I hope you can see that you had too many fish in your tank as they never had the opportunity to rerach their full potential size. At a year and a half, the Dempseys should have been at least double this size, if not more. The acid water was partially responsible for not allowing them to grow larger -- as was the build-up of growth-inhibiting hormones that all fishes produce. When you start out again, be sure to periodically test your water -- And do larger and more frequent partial water changes. Don't try to put as many fish in the tank either. While on this, I'll mention your gravel, which should be deep cleaned at least every couple of weeks to remove any uneaten food and debris that can accumulate down into it, causing the pollution of your water. Unless you see a white slimy appearance or a white fuzzy appearance starting on the remaining fish, any bacteria or fungus now in the tank is normal -- and probably very low in their populations, as probably are the nitrifying bacteria -- as most bacteria don't grow as well in highly acid water. You should also realize, that Dempseys and Convicts are both Central American fish -- meaning, that they do best in alkaline water (a pH above 7.0). Most Central American waters are in the alkaline range. Keep us posted, and best of luck in your future fish-keeping. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have as you go along. In closing, know that the continuing process of organic waste products being oxidized (converted), from ammonia to nitrate will ensure a constant drop in pH if insufficient new water is changed all too infrequently. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54085	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Thank You!!!!!

Morning, Ray Thanks for clarifying what went on. I appreciate all the time and effort that you spent on my behalf. Instead of feeling offended or mad, you made me see that I have been way too lax with my water changes. The other tanks are gonna get more changes too. The reason that I asked if it was now safe to add more fish is that this weekend , both of my fish groups,SFAS and SV AS are having their meetings. That’s where I usually buy some fish. Add a couple if the price is right?? Thanks again, Steve From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Update Hi Steve, This whole picture is now starting to shape up. Your tap water test readings tell a lot, when added into the scene with your aquarium's test readings. I gathered early on, that you couldn't immediately supply us with test results, that you rarely if ever tested your water, If you had, you would have seen right away that you pH was far to low to sustain these fish indefinitely under these conditions. Under normal aquarium maintenance, one's aquarium water is very close in pH to that of one's tap water, if large enough and frequent enough PWC's are done. That you already made five partial water changes with tap water of a pH of 7.8 -- and yet your aquarium water was still no higher than pH 5.8 shows that before you did these five water changes, that your pH must have been much lower -- possibly as low as pH 5.4 -- since it would appear that all five of your water changes were probably about 5 gallons each; a substantial amount when done in a very short time. For starters, you need to test yoir water much more frequently. If you'd have done this all along, you would have seen the pH starting to drop way before it reached this dangerous low. That is, If you're aware that these fishes don't belong in water having a pH of 5.4 (or even 5.6). There are very few fishes that can endure a pH this low for any length of time. I don't know what your General Hardness is or even your Carbonate Hardness, but if it was low, you pH could have crashed for all we know. I did see your photo and film, and putting everything together, it sure looks like your fishes were eventually "burned" by water that was too acid -- causing the white patches in the removal of their body slime. Your fishes were not sick, they were just allowed to remain in water that was getting increasingly too acid for a year and a half. This is not in any way meant to degrade you, as I'm trying to help you understand what happened here. I have no idea why you would think that changing water only twice a month was the proper thing to do, and I wish you could tell me as it's certainly not good aquarium maintenance. Neither, is only changing 5 gallons out of a 50 gallon tank when it's stocked that fully. You should have been doing 25% (12 1/2 gallons) water changes -- every week. The pH kept dropping over this last 18 months, creating an environment for these fishes that was getting worse and worse -- despite their apparent good health appearance. That they stopped eating normally should have been the first clue that something was wrong although maybe too late by this time. I don't know if your remaining three fish will make it or not. Don't change any more water at this time, even though their pH needs to be higher, as it would begin to be too much of a change too soon. You may use an antibiotic, but as a prophylactic -- a preventative against any disease which is very possible to occur, and those white patches of slimeless acid-water burned bodily areas are very prone to a bacterial invasion. It's not the white patches that caused the fishes deaths, but the poor water conditions that caused to white patches (and deaths). If these three fish make it, continue changing water at the rate of 5 gallons every other day until the pH reaches 6.8. Then, you can do 10 gallon water changes every two days until the pH reaches 7.8. BTW, please be advised that Dempseys grow to nearly a foot in length and Convicts grow to at least 5" or more (males up to nearly 6"). By this, I hope you can see that you had too many fish in your tank as they never had the opportunity to rerach their full potential size. At a year and a half, the Dempseys should have been at least double this size, if not more. The acid water was partially responsible for not allowing them to grow larger -- as was the build-up of growth-inhibiting hormones that all fishes produce. When you start out again, be sure to periodically test your water -- And do larger and more frequent partial water changes. Don't try to put as many fish in the tank either. While on this, I'll mention your gravel, which should be deep cleaned at least every couple of weeks to remove any uneaten food and debris that can accumulate down into it, causing the pollution of your water. Unless you see a white slimy appearance or a white fuzzy appearance starting on the remaining fish, any bacteria or fungus now in the tank is normal -- and probably very low in their populations, as probably are the nitrifying bacteria -- as most bacteria don't grow as well in highly acid water. You should also realize, that Dempseys and Convicts are both Central American fish -- meaning, that they do best in alkaline water (a pH above 7.0). Most Central American waters are in the alkaline range. Keep us posted, and best of luck in your future fish-keeping. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have as you go along. In closing, know that the continuing process of organic waste products being oxidized (converted), from ammonia to nitrate will ensure a constant drop in pH if insufficient new water is changed all too infrequently. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54086	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Questions and numbers

Hi Steve, It might be an idea to email your local water company & ask them if they have changed anything recently such as the supply source or if they have changed from adding chlorine to chloramine. The water companies usually have a chemist on hand to answer stuff like that. In addition it would be worth getting a full breakdown of what is actually in your water supply & that is usually also available from their websites. You simply type in your local post/zip code in the relevant section & you get a full list of everything in your water supply area. On the subject of adding another fish I would certainly leave off that until a] your problems have been diagnosed & treated successfully and b] leave it for several weeks or even months after that so you can be sure that everything is on an even keel again. John. On 4 October 2012 00:23, <parkpac@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > > Managed to get some test results. Ammonia tested at 0,nitrate was less > than 5 and the pH came in around 5.8.Will do another test later tonight too. > > There are 5 fish left . They periodically swim around but still not like > before. Should I do another water change tonight? I am going to pick up the > antibiotics tomorrow. > > Running a Rena3 Filstar on this tank. Should I turn off the filter after I > medicate them? If so, for how long? Can put a smaller HOB for the short > term if you think that will help. > > What do you think about adding another fish on Friday if everything stays > the same? That will tell me if the tank is back to normal. > > Thanks, Steve > > From: sevenspringss@... > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 8:07 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Quick update > > Steve, > > Yes, some readings might help, even though not entirely as we would still > have no way of knowing what your numbers werre before doing the water > change. > If you have some idea of what your tank's water parameters generally are, > you may know if the tap water you added is any different from that of your > aquarium. With you having no problem up until you changed the water, this > could suggest that there may have been some significant difference in one > or > more of your parameters as compared to those of your tap water. > > Sometimes, water companies change from one supply to another if they have > multiple sources, and their other sources may be quite different from what > they usually supply. While I never indicated that your remaining fishes > have > Columnaris, I still feel that their present condition was due to a major > shock/change in one of the new water's parameters -- possible a large > enough > change in pH, or possibly an increase in ammonia as combined in their > chloramine. While you haven't shown any pics of these fishes, your > description > sounds like patches of slime was removed from parts of their bodies, > making them > prone to a bacterial infection (although not necessarily Columnaris). > Still need to see the numbers though. > > Your changing relatively small quantities of water with each PWC -- if > you've been doing this -- could have caused a drop in your tank's pH > without you > realizing it (since it seems you haven't really been testing for > anything). > If a large enough difference in pH happens, like the water company > suddenly supplying water at pH 7.8 or 8.0, and your water has drop into > the acid > range, this would be more than enough to highly stress your fish to the > extend > your saying -- even killing them. > > Before doing another PWC, check the tank's water parameters as well as > those of the tap water. By now, after doing 5 other PWC's, I don't suspect > that > there would now be much difference but at least you'll know what kind of > water your being supplied with. If the pH is the same, and if the ammonia > and > nitrite in the tank is at Zero, there's no need to do a further water > change. Medicate the fish with one of the following; Kanamycin, Maracyn II > (TWO) > or Furan II (TWO). > > The NovAqua that was added is unlike the Stress Coat I mentioned as far as > I'm aware, and while it will also promote a slime coat it does not contain > Aloe Vera (as in Stress Coat) so it won't interact with your Purigen. No > need to worry about this conditioner. NovAqua instead, contains an > Echinacae > colloid to promote a slime coating rather than Aloe Vera with which this > latter ingredient acts by irritating the fish skin to promote addition > slime. I > might add too while on this subject, that the Aloe Vera found in Stress > Coat has been reported to also coat the fishes' gill membranes, making it > more > difficult for them to breathe. > > Ray > > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54087	From: Amber Larr	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?

________________________________ I was under the impression that mollies are "brackish water fish" and don't really belong in a freshwater tank... they won't be happy or do well. .... Mollies are more susceptible to ich tank other fish. Putting them in a brackish tank will kill the ich virus. I've got four mollies already in a smaller tank. They're all doing really well. Basically, mollies can be kept in freshwater, but they will not get ich if they're in a brackish tank. I quote from Aquaticcommunity.com; "Salt is however not necessary and will offer little to no benefit if you give the mollies the environment they want"  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54088	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?

Meant to say that Ick is not a virus, when I said it's not a fungus (it's a protozoan), but any technical term is immaterial when confronted with it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54089	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater?

I've read differing opinions on the subject; that can be a problem with the internet. In more of what I have read than not though, it is concluded that they are better off in brackish water. So faced with a dilemma like that, I usually like to err on the side of caution, when it comes to my pets happiness... there are lots of other types of fish out there. :-)>>> > > ________________________________ > I was under the impression that mollies are "brackish water fish" and don't really belong in a freshwater tank... they won't be happy or do well. > > > .... > > Mollies are more susceptible to ich tank other fish. Putting them in a brackish tank will kill the ich virus. I've got four mollies already in a smaller tank. They're all doing really well. Basically, mollies can be kept in freshwater, but they will not get ich if they're in a brackish tank. I quote from Aquaticcommunity.com; "Salt is however not necessary and will offer little to no benefit if you give the mollies the environment they want"  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54090	From: ptimlin	Date: 10/6/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "al_keep_fish" wrote: > In more of what I have read than not though, > it is concluded that they are better off in brackish water. Hi Everyone, Many years ago, actually a couple of decades ago (damn time flies), there was an article in Freshwater And Marine Aquarium magazine by Ted Coletti who wrote a regular column for the magazine called The Livebearer and is an expert of live bearers. This particular article was called "The Great Molly-Salt Debate" which I thought was particularly a good one to scan and keep as this subject is likely one that will never die. Anyway, it is waiting for approval by the moderators of this group, but if approved, you will find the scan in the Photo section of this group under the album by the same name of the article. It is two JPGs. I highly recommend anyone with any interest in Mollies or who has formed a strong opinion about Mollies and salt give it a read. If the moderators choose not to approve it, I can always put it somewhere else and point the link here, but let's wait and see if they are ok with it. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54091	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/7/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt

Hi Patrick, Most anything that Ted writes on Livebearers can be taken to the bank. I know Ted personally as a fellow NJAS member and friend, and he's put on several very informative programs for our club on this group of fishes. In the wild, several Molly species can be found off the eastern coast of Mexico, in 100% marine water as well as in the coastal brackish estuaries of streams emptying into the Gulf of Mexico. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54092	From: joe t	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Fish for 55 gallon freshwater? - Mollies and Salt

Thank you, Patrick: Very interesting. As I was reading the article, I remembered reading it (a long time ago, you're right, time does seem to fly by) and though I usually saved many of those old magazines I couldin't find this one. It will probably show up when I'm not looking for it. In any event, thanks to this article, I did keep mollies for a while when I was younger and wanted to keep everything. LOL. They did fine and thrived with no salt. I was very careful about keeping the water fresh and had no problems. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54093	From: Noura	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Stored Driftwood

Hello, I have this piece of driftwood that I took out of the tank a year ago and stored in a cabinet. Now it has some moldy spots "white" and it smells .. well.. like mold!! Is it enough to brush it and soak it in a bucket of clean water for a few days? Or should I take other procedures to make it safe for the fish? Thanks! Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54094	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

I would boil it myself, just to be safe. Amber On 10/8/2012 10:15 AM, Noura wrote: > > Hello, > I have this piece of driftwood that I took out of the tank a year ago > and stored in a cabinet. Now it has some moldy spots "white" and it > smells .. well.. like mold!! > Is it enough to brush it and soak it in a bucket of clean water for a > few days? Or should I take other procedures to make it safe for the fish? > Thanks! > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54095	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/8/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

Hi Noura, Boiling is an excellent idea. Clean the mold off with an old toothbrush. John*<o)))< * On 9 October 2012 01:32, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > I would boil it myself, just to be safe. > > Amber > > > On 10/8/2012 10:15 AM, Noura wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I have this piece of driftwood that I took out of the tank a year ago > > and stored in a cabinet. Now it has some moldy spots "white" and it > > smells .. well.. like mold!! > > Is it enough to brush it and soak it in a bucket of clean water for a > > few days? Or should I take other procedures to make it safe for the fish? > > Thanks! > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54096	From: Noura	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

Thanks, Amber and John. For how long should I boil? Are cookware totally safe for cooking our food after I have used them for boiling the wood? Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stored Driftwood Hi Noura, Boiling is an excellent idea. Clean the mold off with an old toothbrush. John*<o)))< * On 9 October 2012 01:32, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I would boil it myself, just to be safe. > > Amber > > > On 10/8/2012 10:15 AM, Noura wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I have this piece of driftwood that I took out of the tank a year ago > > and stored in a cabinet. Now it has some moldy spots "white" and it > > smells .. well.. like mold!! > > Is it enough to brush it and soak it in a bucket of clean water for a > > few days? Or should I take other procedures to make it safe for the fish? > > Thanks! > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54097	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

I think boiling it for 5-10 minutes should be more than long enough to kill anything on the driftwood. Make sure you cool it down (by either running it under cold tap water or letting it cool off naturally) before you add it to your tank. It will sink easier if you add it when the driftwood is wet. Yes the cookware is safe to use after boiling the driftwood (after you clean the cookware of course, LOL). Amber On 10/8/2012 9:04 PM, Noura wrote: > > Thanks, Amber and John. > > For how long should I boil? > > Are cookware totally safe for cooking our food after I have used them for > boiling the wood? > > Noura > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:09 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stored Driftwood > > Hi Noura, > > Boiling is an excellent idea. Clean the mold off with an old toothbrush. > > John*<o)))< > > * > On 9 October 2012 01:32, Amber Berglund <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I would boil it myself, just to be safe. > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 10/8/2012 10:15 AM, Noura wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > I have this piece of driftwood that I took out of the tank a year ago > > > and stored in a cabinet. Now it has some moldy spots "white" and it > > > smells .. well.. like mold!! > > > Is it enough to brush it and soak it in a bucket of clean water for a > > > few days? Or should I take other procedures to make it safe for the > fish? > > > Thanks! > > > Noura > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54098	From: Noura	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

Thanks for the info Amber. Oh and thank you especially for reminding me of washing the cookware! Lol Well the driftwood needs a lot more soaking , it's been totally dry through the whole Summer and is soaking since only 24 hours so far. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amber Berglund Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stored Driftwood I think boiling it for 5-10 minutes should be more than long enough to kill anything on the driftwood. Make sure you cool it down (by either running it under cold tap water or letting it cool off naturally) before you add it to your tank. It will sink easier if you add it when the driftwood is wet. Yes the cookware is safe to use after boiling the driftwood (after you clean the cookware of course, LOL). Amber On 10/8/2012 9:04 PM, Noura wrote: > > Thanks, Amber and John. > > For how long should I boil? > > Are cookware totally safe for cooking our food after I have used them for > boiling the wood? > > Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54099	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/9/2012
Subject: Re: Stored Driftwood

Some types of trees/wood sink easier than others. I have a few pieces of driftwood that sank really easily and one that has NEVER sunk, it still floats after over 2 years in my tank. I gave up weighing it down with rocks, every now and then it would somehow get away from the rocks and float back to the surface. I had a piece of driftwood I let soak in a rubbermade tub for a year before I boiled it and put it in a fishtank. LOL Amber On 10/9/2012 7:01 AM, Noura wrote: > > Thanks for the info Amber. Oh and thank you especially for reminding me of > washing the cookware! Lol > > Well the driftwood needs a lot more soaking , it's been totally dry > through > the whole Summer and is soaking since only 24 hours so far. > > Noura > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>] On > Behalf Of Amber Berglund > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 5:46 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Stored Driftwood > > I think boiling it for 5-10 minutes should be more than long enough to > kill anything on the driftwood. Make sure you cool it down (by either > running it under cold tap water or letting it cool off naturally) before > you add it to your tank. It will sink easier if you add it when the > driftwood is wet. > Yes the cookware is safe to use after boiling the driftwood (after you > clean the cookware of course, LOL). > > Amber > > On 10/8/2012 9:04 PM, Noura wrote: > > > > Thanks, Amber and John. > > > > For how long should I boil? > > > > Are cookware totally safe for cooking our food after I have used > them for > > boiling the wood? > > > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54100	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/11/2012
Subject: Water changes

Hi Ray and group, Took your advice about making more PWC’s. How often can I change the water? One tank has low pH. That’s the one where I lost the fish. Been changing 10 gallons every other day. Would it hurt if I upped the frequency? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54101	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: Water changes

> How often can I change the water? One tank has low pH. > That’s the one where I lost the fish. Been changing >10 gallons every other day. Would it hurt if I upped the frequency?   You are already changing every day, how much more frequent do you want to go? Or did you mean up the amount changed each time? Regardless, in general there is no harm in changing water frequently (breeders of fish like discus often change most of the water in tanks on a daily basis). As long as your water being added is not drastically different from change to change, you are ok. Likewise, you can change as much water as you like as long as you do it on a frequent basis. The only time large water changes can be harmful is when you want a LONGGGG time, example 6 months, the water in the tank has changed considerably from your make up water and then you suddenly change a large amount which might instantly change your fish's water conditions from one extreme to another. But if you change frequently and large amounts then the tank never has time for conditions to deteriorate so the changes do not drastically change things like pH, hardness, & salinity to name a few. Have fun, Patrick Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54102	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: new to group--couple questions

Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. I currently own 3 tanks. One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps water good temp, one bubbler) one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) ________ My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a larger tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 weeks, and used some bacteria supplements as well as water de-cholorinater and something to reduce ammonia. I was sure that the ammonia was safe and temperature was good. I took about half the water from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it in there when I switched them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed fine. Today, though, my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the corner at the surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is an issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started darting all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was out to get him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as my other fish seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. Any idea why he's doing this? _________ My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often so he was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the betta so he gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble nests, and where it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too much of a surface disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should turn it off for him, or leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest isn't necessary for me, but I'm not sure if it would make him more content? __________ Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, or if that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, about an inch and a half in length. _________ Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54103	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

If you test the water in the 30 gallon and the ammonia/nitrites both read 0 (zero) then the water is not likely your cause to the goldfish acting oddly. They could have been startled by something (movement or a change in lighting). I recommend testing the water and letting us know your readings to give you a better idea for your goldfish behavior. Also a heads up, you'll have to consider upgrading (again) for your goldfish. A 30 gallon is too small for 2 goldfish, you'll need to clean your filter at least once a week (if not twice) and change the water once or twice a week as well to keep up with all their waste. I would suggest putting the african dwarf frog into the 10 gallon and the betta in the 1.5 myself. The betta will be happy in the 1.5 gallon and the african dwarf frog will be much happier in a larger tank. Also be careful if you put the dwarf frog WITH the betta, I lost my dwarf frog to a very aggressive male betta. If the betta is not too aggressive towards the dwarf frog they could be housed together in the 10 gallon. Amber On 10/12/2012 9:45 AM, Ava wrote: > > Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. > I currently own 3 tanks. > One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, > (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) > > one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta > (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps > water good temp, one bubbler) > > one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. > (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) > ________ > My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a > larger tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 > weeks, and used some bacteria supplements as well as water > de-cholorinater and something to reduce ammonia. I was sure that the > ammonia was safe and temperature was good. I took about half the water > from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it in there when I switched > them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed fine. Today, though, > my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the corner at the > surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is an > issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started > darting all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was > out to get him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as > my other fish seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. > Any idea why he's doing this? > _________ > My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he > foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often > so he was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the > betta so he gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble > nests, and where it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too > much of a surface disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should > turn it off for him, or leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest > isn't necessary for me, but I'm not sure if it would make him more > content? > __________ > Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf > frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only > option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my > goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, > or if that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, > about an inch and a half in length. > _________ > Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! > -Ava > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54104	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

One idea... goldfish like cool water... they don't want or need a heater. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: > > If you test the water in the 30 gallon and the ammonia/nitrites both > read 0 (zero) then the water is not likely your cause to the goldfish > acting oddly. They could have been startled by something (movement or a > change in lighting). I recommend testing the water and letting us know > your readings to give you a better idea for your goldfish behavior. Also > a heads up, you'll have to consider upgrading (again) for your goldfish. > A 30 gallon is too small for 2 goldfish, you'll need to clean your > filter at least once a week (if not twice) and change the water once or > twice a week as well to keep up with all their waste. > > I would suggest putting the african dwarf frog into the 10 gallon and > the betta in the 1.5 myself. The betta will be happy in the 1.5 gallon > and the african dwarf frog will be much happier in a larger tank. Also > be careful if you put the dwarf frog WITH the betta, I lost my dwarf > frog to a very aggressive male betta. If the betta is not too aggressive > towards the dwarf frog they could be housed together in the 10 gallon. > > Amber > > On 10/12/2012 9:45 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. > > I currently own 3 tanks. > > One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, > > (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) > > > > one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta > > (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps > > water good temp, one bubbler) > > > > one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. > > (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) > > ________ > > My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a > > larger tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 > > weeks, and used some bacteria supplements as well as water > > de-cholorinater and something to reduce ammonia. I was sure that the > > ammonia was safe and temperature was good. I took about half the water > > from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it in there when I switched > > them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed fine. Today, though, > > my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the corner at the > > surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is an > > issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started > > darting all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was > > out to get him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as > > my other fish seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. > > Any idea why he's doing this? > > _________ > > My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he > > foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often > > so he was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the > > betta so he gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble > > nests, and where it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too > > much of a surface disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should > > turn it off for him, or leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest > > isn't necessary for me, but I'm not sure if it would make him more > > content? > > __________ > > Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf > > frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only > > option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my > > goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, > > or if that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, > > about an inch and a half in length. > > _________ > > Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! > > -Ava > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54105	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

I had gotten the 30 gal from a friend for free. He had told me it was a 50 gallon, which is what I was originally aiming for. I will (eventually) get them in a larger tank, but they're still fairly small and money is a tad tight. Though I will definitely get them into a larger tank once they grow more. The only reason the tank has a heater is because we have a "glass house" ...floor to ceiling windows. So where the tank is in the house, it gets REALLY cold. So I only have the heater at about 72 F. When it drops below that my black moor starts turning gold and I was told that's a sign that it's too cold. I was curious what you guys thought about using traditional glassware as a betta bowl? Hobby Lobby sells really nice looking glassware, all blown as one piece, so no seams... I just don't know if it's coated in something...? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > One idea... goldfish like cool water... they don't want or need a heater. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Berglund <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > If you test the water in the 30 gallon and the ammonia/nitrites both > > read 0 (zero) then the water is not likely your cause to the goldfish > > acting oddly. They could have been startled by something (movement or a > > change in lighting). I recommend testing the water and letting us know > > your readings to give you a better idea for your goldfish behavior. Also > > a heads up, you'll have to consider upgrading (again) for your goldfish. > > A 30 gallon is too small for 2 goldfish, you'll need to clean your > > filter at least once a week (if not twice) and change the water once or > > twice a week as well to keep up with all their waste. > > > > I would suggest putting the african dwarf frog into the 10 gallon and > > the betta in the 1.5 myself. The betta will be happy in the 1.5 gallon > > and the african dwarf frog will be much happier in a larger tank. Also > > be careful if you put the dwarf frog WITH the betta, I lost my dwarf > > frog to a very aggressive male betta. If the betta is not too aggressive > > towards the dwarf frog they could be housed together in the 10 gallon. > > > > Amber > > > > On 10/12/2012 9:45 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. > > > I currently own 3 tanks. > > > One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, > > > (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) > > > > > > one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta > > > (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps > > > water good temp, one bubbler) > > > > > > one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. > > > (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) > > > ________ > > > My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a > > > larger tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 > > > weeks, and used some bacteria supplements as well as water > > > de-cholorinater and something to reduce ammonia. I was sure that the > > > ammonia was safe and temperature was good. I took about half the water > > > from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it in there when I switched > > > them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed fine. Today, though, > > > my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the corner at the > > > surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is an > > > issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started > > > darting all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was > > > out to get him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as > > > my other fish seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. > > > Any idea why he's doing this? > > > _________ > > > My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he > > > foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often > > > so he was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the > > > betta so he gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble > > > nests, and where it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too > > > much of a surface disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should > > > turn it off for him, or leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest > > > isn't necessary for me, but I'm not sure if it would make him more > > > content? > > > __________ > > > Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf > > > frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only > > > option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my > > > goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, > > > or if that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, > > > about an inch and a half in length. > > > _________ > > > Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! > > > -Ava > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54106	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

Hi Ava, Welcome to the group. The darting you report from your Black Moor could well be stress related due to the move, even if the water quality is fine the change if environment will cause some issue initially I would think. You said that you let the 430 gallon cycle fro 2 & a half weeks-how did you do this? Without fish or ammonia the chances are that the tank remained sterile until the fish were introduced. If that was the case then the toxin levels are likely very high just now-another reason your fish is acting strange. Is your airpump controllable? if so then try turning it down a little so that it is not as vociferous-that could be why your Moor is panicking with all the noise, sound waves travel really well through water & can upset the fish. I agree with Amber about the size of tanks needed for Goldfish, always go as big as you possibly can & over filter because these are dirty fish & also need plenty of partial water changes. Clean the filter media in old tank water & not under running tap water as that will kill the good bugs, you want to remove the loose debris so the filter runs as efficiently as possible while keeping the good bacteria that has colonised the media. Your water test results in your 30 gallon will be really useful asap please but in the meantime I would suggest changing 40% using temperature matched, treated water every couple of days & we can take it from there. John*<o)))< * On 12 October 2012 18:45, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. > I currently own 3 tanks. > One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, > (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) > > one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta > (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps water > good temp, one bubbler) > > one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. > (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) > ________ > My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a larger > tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 weeks, and used > some bacteria supplements as well as water de-cholorinater and something to > reduce ammonia. I was sure that the ammonia was safe and temperature was > good. I took about half the water from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it > in there when I switched them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed > fine. Today, though, my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the > corner at the surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is > an issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started darting > all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was out to get > him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as my other fish > seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. Any idea why he's > doing this? > _________ > My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he > foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often so he > was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the betta so he > gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble nests, and where > it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too much of a surface > disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should turn it off for him, or > leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest isn't necessary for me, but > I'm not sure if it would make him more content? > __________ > Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf > frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only > option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my > goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, or if > that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, about an > inch and a half in length. > _________ > Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! > -Ava > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54107	From: erick blandino	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Too many tetras

Hello i'm new to this aquarium thing. But my question is what do I do to maintain the balance of too many tetras in the tank? Should I buy one fish that eat them and keep enough hiding spots for them to be in check? They reproduce often. Erick B. Petaluma, Ca. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54108	From: Ava	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

The ammonia reading this morning was between 0 and .25 (color in between there) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > Hello, all. I'm new to the group, as well as a new fish owner. > I currently own 3 tanks. > One 1.5 gallon, which I have an african dwarf frog in, > (no filter or heater, but it's monitored well) > > one 10 gallon, which is currently empty and I'm preparing for a betta > (one 10gal filter, came with tank. No heater, but room temp keeps water good temp, one bubbler) > > one 30 gallon, which has my 2 goldfish. One black moor, one telescope eye. > (one bio-wheel filter, for up to 50gal, one heater, one bubbler) > ________ > My two goldfish used to be in the 10, though I upgraded them to a larger tank (30 gal) just yesterday. I let it cycle for about 2.5 weeks, and used some bacteria supplements as well as water de-cholorinater and something to reduce ammonia. I was sure that the ammonia was safe and temperature was good. I took about half the water from their old tank (~5 gal), and put it in there when I switched them. I monitored them yesterday and they seemed fine. Today, though, my black moor seemed to be going nuts. He was in the corner at the surface blowing bubbles a lot. Though I don't think oxygen is an issue, as I have a wonderful bubbler in there. Then, he started darting all over, not casually swimming, DARTING as if something was out to get him. His movements are all jerky and I'm not sure why, as my other fish seems to be content. This behavior is unusual for him. Any idea why he's doing this? > _________ > My 10 gallon is now getting prepared for my friends betta, because he foolishly put it in his tank with an axolotl and they fight too often so he was moved into a flower vase... So soon I'll be getting the betta so he gets a tank to his own again. I was reading about bubble nests, and where it sounds interesting, I think my bubbler causes too much of a surface disturbance to the water. I was curious if I should turn it off for him, or leave it on? I don't plan on breeding, so nest isn't necessary for me, but I'm not sure if it would make him more content? > __________ > Even though I read that a 1.5 gallon tank is fine for an african dwarf frog, I can't help but want to give the little guy more room. My only option for him right now though is to put him in the 30 gal with my goldfish. I was curious if the goldfish filth is harmful to the frog, or if that would be overcrowding? My goldfish are still fairly small, about an inch and a half in length. > _________ > Thanks for reading, folks. I know it's a lot. Hope to hear back soon! > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54109	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/12/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

Hi Ava, Welcome to the group, and the best of luck with your fish (& frog). Can you please give us readings for your pH and Nitrite -- and Nitrate too, while you're at it. On the Goldfish and the size of tank they'll eventually need -- please know that these types of Goldfish can reach at least 8" or more, and will need at least 35 gallons each to properly maintain them. You have some time before you'll need to upgrade, but you'd do better buying at least a 75 gallon tank instead of a 50 gallon. If you can be an even larger tank, so much the better, as then it will be much easier to care for them. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54110	From: Noura	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Too many tetras

Hello Erick, I was really surprised at your message, Tetras reproducing FAST?! Wow, I have been keeping Tetras for 10+ years and they never even spawned, so .. congratulations! That must be fun, and your fish must be really happy to reproduce this fast. What kind of Tetra are they? I would strongly advise you NOT to bring a "predator" fish, as this will increase your Tetras stress level too much. Your fish won't be happy anymore, if you ended up with any survivors at all in the first place. And you won't be happy to watch them run for their life constantly. I suggest a good solution that works well for me, you can grab some Tetras into a plastic bag whenever their population number gets high and trade them at your local fish store for any fish supplies, food, other fish... I used to trade my adult Clown loaches and Plecos for juveniles whenever they outgrew my 20 G. The store's owner couldn't be happier! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of erick blandino Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:00 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Too many tetras Hello i'm new to this aquarium thing. But my question is what do I do to maintain the balance of too many tetras in the tank? Should I buy one fish that eat them and keep enough hiding spots for them to be in check? They reproduce often. Erick B. Petaluma, Ca. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54111	From: erick blandino	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: Too many tetras

The little neon ones. Thanks they seem to be o.k. For now. Thought it was going to be an ongoing cycle. Maybe I got a batch of plants that had the eggs already to hatch? So shouldn't be a problem, more lucky instead? Erick B. Petaluma, Ca. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54112	From: PAULA BROWN	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: HOB Filter

I am in the process of moving and will soon be breaking down my 30 gallon tank. It has a HOB and I am wondering if there is any way to keep the filter pad "alive" without actually being in water. I already have all of my other tanks set up in the new house, but I am not going to be able to set up the 30 gallon for a while because of remodeling. All of the other tanks presently running have HOB's with filters that were transfered from other tanks and all are doing fine. None of them have room though for the filter pads from the 30 gallon. I just hate to see all that goodness go to waste by just throwing them away - just wondering if freezing them in a ziploc bag might do any good? I am guessing that would kill any beneficial use, but thought I would ask just in case. Paula in Toledo, Ohio

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54113	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter

Hi Paula, Your nitrifying bacteria in your 30 gallon tank's filter pad needs to be kept in water for them to stay alive. I doubt that they'd survive freezing, or at the very least would be greatly diminished. You might try putting the filter pad in that same zip-lock bag you're asking about (but with water), and just refrigerate it. This would greatly decrease their metabolism to the point they wouldn't need much oxygen. The better quality bottled bacteria additives are treated this way. No guarantees still, as to how long they'll remain alive as they won't be put in a state of suspended animation, but it's worth a shot. If that fails, with your not being able to set this 30 gallon tank back up within a reasonable time, there's always Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria additive you could use. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54114	From: Noura	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter

Any chance you could transfer the HOB from the 30 G in a bucket of tank's water to the new house and keep it running in one of the other tanks until its own tank is ready? Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PAULA BROWN Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HOB Filter I am in the process of moving and will soon be breaking down my 30 gallon tank. It has a HOB and I am wondering if there is any way to keep the filter pad "alive" without actually being in water. I already have all of my other tanks set up in the new house, but I am not going to be able to set up the 30 gallon for a while because of remodeling. All of the other tanks presently running have HOB's with filters that were transfered from other tanks and all are doing fine. None of them have room though for the filter pads from the 30 gallon. I just hate to see all that goodness go to waste by just throwing them away - just wondering if freezing them in a ziploc bag might do any good? I am guessing that would kill any beneficial use, but thought I would ask just in case. Paula in Toledo, Ohio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54115	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter

That is what I would do run the 30G on one of the other tanks to preserve it. Or set up the 30G in a corner or closet now and then move it after remodeling. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HOB Filter Any chance you could transfer the HOB from the 30 G in a bucket of tank's water to the new house and keep it running in one of the other tanks until its own tank is ready? Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of PAULA BROWN Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 3:10 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] HOB Filter I am in the process of moving and will soon be breaking down my 30 gallon tank. It has a HOB and I am wondering if there is any way to keep the filter pad "alive" without actually being in water. I already have all of my other tanks set up in the new house, but I am not going to be able to set up the 30 gallon for a while because of remodeling. All of the other tanks presently running have HOB's with filters that were transfered from other tanks and all are doing fine. None of them have room though for the filter pads from the 30 gallon. I just hate to see all that goodness go to waste by just throwing them away - just wondering if freezing them in a ziploc bag might do any good? I am guessing that would kill any beneficial use, but thought I would ask just in case. Paula in Toledo, Ohio [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54116	From: Gary Palmer	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter

I've never heard of anything like that, but someone else may have some ideas.  BTW what is the next biggest size tank you have?  Could you just put the HOB filter on another tank and run it for awhile?  I once did it- a little tricky- I took the plastic strip off the back of the glass top and used saran wrap and masking tape to cover the open areas so the fish couldn't jump out.  Wasn't pretty, but it did work for a couple of weeks while I finished getting the other tank up and running.  Just a thought......... GaryP Delaware --- On Sat, 10/13/12, PAULA BROWN <paulabrown4480@...> wrote: From: PAULA BROWN <paulabrown4480@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] HOB Filter To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 13, 2012, 8:09 AM I am in the process of moving and will soon be breaking down my 30 gallon tank.  It has a HOB and I am wondering if there is any way to keep the filter pad "alive" without actually being in water.  I already have all of my other tanks set up in the new house, but I am not going to be able to set up the 30 gallon for a while because of remodeling.  All of the other tanks presently running have HOB's with filters that were transfered from other tanks and all are doing fine. None of them have room though for the filter pads from the 30 gallon. I just hate to see all that goodness go to waste by just throwing them away - just wondering if freezing them in a ziploc bag might do any good?  I am guessing that would kill any beneficial use, but thought I would ask just in case. Paula in Toledo, Ohio ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54117	From: Brian	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: HOB Filter

I'm all for trying the refrigerator or even freezer. What do you have to loose? If/when it doesn't work, why not just "seed" the tank/filter with some gravel or an old filter pad from one of the other tanks when you are ready to set it back up? ...Brian in PA sevenspringss@... wrote: >Hi Paula, > >Your nitrifying bacteria in your 30 gallon tank's filter pad needs to be >kept in water for them to stay alive. I doubt that they'd survive freezing, >or at the very least would be greatly diminished. You might try putting the >filter pad in that same zip-lock bag you're asking about (but with water), >and just refrigerate it. This would greatly decrease their metabolism to the >point they wouldn't need much oxygen. The better quality bottled bacteria >additives are treated this way. > >No guarantees still, as to how long they'll remain alive as they won't be >put in a state of suspended animation, but it's worth a shot. If that fails, >with your not being able to set this 30 gallon tank back up within a >reasonable time, there's always Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria additive you could >use. > >Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54118	From: Ava	Date: 10/13/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

I'll get the pH in the morning--The color change in my moor was from a few months ago--with the old tank. I think he was just getting used to the change, because he seems to be back to his old self. :) I cycled using some decorations from their old tank (left some of the gunk on, told it was good), and I put the moss ball that was in their tank before into the new one. I used water conditioner and this stuff called Prime. I have to buy some tests for Nitrite/Nitrate... I thought I had them but I guess not. -Ava --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Ava, > > Welcome to the group, and the best of luck with your fish (& frog). Can > you please give us readings for your pH and Nitrite -- and Nitrate too, while > you're at it. > > On the Goldfish and the size of tank they'll eventually need -- please know > that these types of Goldfish can reach at least 8" or more, and will need > at least 35 gallons each to properly maintain them. You have some time > before you'll need to upgrade, but you'd do better buying at least a 75 gallon > tank instead of a 50 gallon. If you can be an even larger tank, so much the > better, as then it will be much easier to care for them. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54119	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Re: new to group--couple questions

Hi Ava, Looks like you were doing everything right, or at least as best you could. Let us know if you need any more help; best wishes for a successful tank of fish. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54120	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Confused

Hi Ray and group, Still having trouble with the tank that too acid . Been doing 10 gallon Pwc for the last 3 days and the pH is still around 6.0 Tested the tap water.It was about 7.5. With more than half of the old water gone and the new higher pH water in place, why has it not gone up? Are there any other things that I might check? There are 4 fish left, 2 Dempseys and 2 convicts. They swim around the tank after the Pwc but by morning , they are near the bottom. Any ideas what’s going on? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54121	From: harry perry	Date: 10/14/2012
Subject: Steve.........Re: [AquaticLife] Confused

Consider this..... http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/problemsolving/f/old_tank_syndrome.htm Harry ________________________________ From: "parkpac@..." <parkpac@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Confused   Hi Ray and group, Still having trouble with the tank that too acid . Been doing 10 gallon Pwc for the last 3 days and the pH is still around 6.0 Tested the tap water.It was about 7.5. With more than half of the old water gone and the new higher pH water in place, why has it not gone up? Are there any other things that I might check? There are 4 fish left, 2 Dempseys and 2 convicts. They swim around the tank after the Pwc but by morning , they are near the bottom. Any ideas what’s going on? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54122	From: Noura	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Ouch! Cichlids in an acidic tank! I can feel with them , and with you! I'll have to reply without going back to your original post because I'm very tight on time. So I'm sorry if I'm asking about things that you already mentioned before. Are there any decorations or filter media that may be causing this pH drop? If you have driftwood in there, the tannins may drop you pH. Just a thought! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of parkpac@... Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 12:53 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com; sevenspringss@... Subject: [AquaticLife] Confused Hi Ray and group, Still having trouble with the tank that too acid . Been doing 10 gallon Pwc for the last 3 days and the pH is still around 6.0 Tested the tap water.It was about 7.5. With more than half of the old water gone and the new higher pH water in place, why has it not gone up? Are there any other things that I might check? There are 4 fish left, 2 Dempseys and 2 convicts. They swim around the tank after the Pwc but by morning , they are near the bottom. Any ideas what’s going on? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54123	From: Patrick	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Still having trouble with the tank that too acid . > Been doing 10 gallon Pwc for the last 3 days and the pH > is still around 6.0 Tested the tap water.It was about 7.5. > With more than half of the old water gone and the new > higher pH water in place, why has it not gone up? > Are there any other things that I might check? One thing that comes to mind is that in some areas of the world, local water supplies can be more acidic. In the USA, many local public water systems will artificially boost the pH level with temporary hardness (bicarbonates and that sort of thing) for delivery mostly to protect the systems infrastructure (pipes) from corrosion and to lessen the amount of leaching into the system of things like lead if the system is an older one. The problem with these pH boosts is that they are usually temporary. And your description sounds a lot like this may be the case. Initially the pH is fine but then quickly drops once in a tank. Harry's link to the article on "Old Tank Syndrome" doesn't really apply here because that is for tanks that almost never get water changes and simply get topped off as needed. Over time the water conditions deteriorate. But in your case, daily water changes are being performed. If you are on a public water supply, in the USA you can call them up and ask them for the latest copy of their water analysis report. They usually do this on a regular basis, having a lab test their water and the report will typically be a couple pages long. Most places should be able to email or mail you a copy of that report. At the very least, they should be able to tell you over the phone some of the basics like pH, hardness (both carbonate and bicarbonate), if they artificially boost the pH, etc. If you are on a public water supply and keep fish, then getting a baseline of your water is usually a good idea. > There are 4 fish left, 2 Dempseys and 2 convicts. > They swim around the tank after the Pwc but by morning, > they are near the bottom. Any ideas what's going on? Well taking a look at your past posts, it has only been a week or two since you had all the problems and lost a lot of fish. From your description of "burns" and such, my initial thought may be that the fish are simply still recovering. Injuries (external and internal) can take some time to heal. Especially if they suffered any sort of ammonia type burns, they very well could have some gill damage that isn't readily apparent to you. As long as they don't look bad, seem more or less active, are eating, etc. I would just give it some more time and keep up regular water changes. As to your water, normally I wouldn't worry all that much about your water being a pH of 6 as long as you are doing regular partial water changes and the fish seem ok (seem ok later once they recover). But if you want to boost the pH a bit more, try something a little more subtle and constant like adding some seashells to the tank which will slowly add hardness to the water. A few might do nothing more than keep the pH from dropping too low. More can help boost the pH up a bit. But the nice thing about things like shells, limestone, marble, crushed coral, etc. is they don't change things suddenly when used in moderation. Just keep monitoring the pH. If you find it starts creeping up too much, simply remove some of that material. In the meantime, just keep up regular partial water changes, monitor the pH, ammonia and nitrites (have you measured nitrites yet?) and give the fish some time to heal and see how it goes. Good luck, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54124	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Hi Noura, I noticed that you remarked as though Cichlids don't belong in acid water, as a blanket statement. Please know that most South American and West African Cichlids do best in acid water. Exceptions to this would be those fishes found in Pacific drainages (of the Andes) in South America. Steve's fishes do not belong in acid water though, as they're both Central American Cichlids. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54125	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Patrick, It appears that you may not have been following this thread from the beginning. Steve has only just begun making PWC's every day, at my recommendation. His water quality has deteriorated from insuffucient and infrequent PWCing to the point is has finally fell below the quality needed to maintain his fishes. His fishes are now suffering from this inadequacy, in their dying and becoming sick. While few water companies supply acid water, because of some of the reasons you mention, most prefer to keep their supply in the alkaline range to preventy problems with their infrastructure. While it's quite true that Steve should get a baseline for his source's parameters, it's pH is likely a good amount above neutral -- although I agree he should test for it, which I believe I asked him to do last week. The water parameter reports supplied by the water companies may be federally mandated now, as an annual outline for them to mail out to their customers, but some suppliers mail these reports out twice a year; Steve should look into getting these reports if he hasn't received one, or keep them from now on if they've been arriving in his mail. Assuming Steve's tap water is alkaline -- and it should be tested for -- PWC's are by far the best way to bring up his pH, rather than to use a water hardener containing a carbonate. Nothing wrong with using carbonates to raise the KH where it's needed, but there may be nothing wrong with his Tempoary Hardness; it may just have finally been overwhelmed by the build up of nitric acid from the natural process of nitrification -- as it very much appears -- and this would only serve to put a band-aid on it. You do have a point, that injured fish (even those injured by poor water conditions) will take time to heal. They can't be expected to make a full recovery within days when adverse conditions have been slowing adding up over time. To help keep you up to date, as I remember it, Steve set this tank up last year and has been changing out only about 5 gallons, only every two weeks -- and it's a 50 gallon tank, if memory serves. This is only 10% PWCing every TWO weeks -- not nearly enough, especially when he orginally had a very large bioload before losing many fishes last week. I'm sure this will tell you that his water was being kept in far from ideal conditions, and just kept on getting worse. Steve, we know that you did not allow your fishes water conditions to deteriorate intentionally, and we're glad you found us to be able to learn better maintenance procedures -- and I'm sure you're just as glad as well, to now know better procedures. As your PWCing (partial water changing) regimen has been too little and too infrequent for a long period of time, it's more than probable that your pH is far below pH 6.0, but as aquarium pH test kits are rarely available which give results for any pH value below pH 6.0, it's extremely likely that your pH is still far below 6.0 -- recognized if your pH vial shows a darker yellow rather than just a medium yellow. If your tank's pH had been at 6.0, and if your tap water's pH were above neutral, you would have seen some rise in pH when doing these recent 10 gallon PWC's. That you didn't, shows in itself that your pH is actually lower than 6.0 -- unless your tap water is also acid. Check your tap water's pH, as I recommended last week (and give us the results, in numbers), and continue making daily 10 gallon water changes if your tap water is alkaline. This is the surest way to increase the pH and over all quality of your aquarium water -- slowly enough that it shouldn't be stressful for your remaining fishes. Give us pH test results, both for your tap water, and then, test results of your aquarium (only) every day after making PWC's. Give us test results also, for your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate -- which I believe I asked you for last week too. I'm sure your nitrate had to be quite high last week, but hopefully it has come down a good amount by now. Ray . .</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54126	From: Noura	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Thank you for the information , Ray. I DID think that all cichlids prefer what my Malawi Cichlids do. My Yellow Labs couldn't be happier, their water is 8.2-8.4 . Once, one of the members here stated that some African Cichlid fans would "kill" for my type of water! Lol I remember this sentence almost everytime I look at my Yellow Labs. J Have a nice day! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Confused Hi Noura, I noticed that you remarked as though Cichlids don't belong in acid water, as a blanket statement. Please know that most South American and West African Cichlids do best in acid water. Exceptions to this would be those fishes found in Pacific drainages (of the Andes) in South America. Steve's fishes do not belong in acid water though, as they're both Central American Cichlids. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54127	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/15/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Hi Noura, You're very fortunate to have the pH that you do for your Malawi Cichlids, right out of the tap. While your water wouldn't be very good at all for South American Cichlids, or even that good for Tetras, it's ideal for the type of fishes you enjoy keeping. I remember you also had another Malawi Cichlid when uou first started with these Yellow Labs -- I think, a species of Melanochromis -- and was wondering if you still had any of them. You may have brought them back to the shop, but I don't recall. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54128	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

Hello Ray, Your memory is correct. I did have other Malawi Cichlids at first. They were Kenyis (2 Kenyis and 4 Labs , I think). As you fish experts predicted, the peace phase between the Yellow Labs and Kenyis didn't last for long. As soon as the biggest of my two Kenyis rached 2" long, he became a monster. I took them both to the fish store, and have been keeping Yellow Labs alone ever since. They grow amazingly fast here. They didn't breed, but I enjoy keeping them very much nevertheless. I currently have 4 of them, sized between 1.5 – 2.5 " . As you remember, I made some PVC caves for them upon your instructions. Actually I have photos that I'll share here soon. As for Tetras, the types that I kept in my community tank actually do great, except for the Neon Tetras, these never lived for more than 6 months. I successfully kept Serpae Tetra, White Skirt Tetra, and Red Eye Tetra. Most of them lived for 3+ yrs, and grew rapidly to their maximum size. Actually I have one white Skirt Tetra that I bought about 4 yrs ago. Maybe they're locally bred so they're accustomed to our hard water??! The Syrian fish market usually imports from Asia, in addition to the locally bred fish (mostly Goldfish, Guppies, Angelfish sometimes..) Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Confused Hi Noura, You're very fortunate to have the pH that you do for your Malawi Cichlids, right out of the tap. While your water wouldn't be very good at all for South American Cichlids, or even that good for Tetras, it's ideal for the type of fishes you enjoy keeping. I remember you also had another Malawi Cichlid when uou first started with these Yellow Labs -- I think, a species of Melanochromis -- and was wondering if you still had any of them. You may have brought them back to the shop, but I don't recall. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54129	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Confused

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/108924 9347/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1128310268/pic/10892 49347/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&a mp;dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc I totally forgot about posting these photos 3 years ago! These are my Malawi Cichlids when I first bought them and threw them in the community tank. Of course, shortly later, they got their own Cichlid tank when I realized my mistake! I'm uploading some new photos. Will post the links when I'm done. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Confused Hello Ray, Your memory is correct. I did have other Malawi Cichlids at first. They were Kenyis (2 Kenyis and 4 Labs , I think). As you fish experts predicted, the peace phase between the Yellow Labs and Kenyis didn't last for long. As soon as the biggest of my two Kenyis rached 2" long, he became a monster. I took them both to the fish store, and have been keeping Yellow Labs alone ever since. They grow amazingly fast here. They didn't breed, but I enjoy keeping them very much nevertheless. I currently have 4 of them, sized between 1.5 – 2.5 " . As you remember, I made some PVC caves for them upon your instructions. Actually I have photos that I'll share here soon. As for Tetras, the types that I kept in my community tank actually do great, except for the Neon Tetras, these never lived for more than 6 months. I successfully kept Serpae Tetra, White Skirt Tetra, and Red Eye Tetra. Most of them lived for 3+ yrs, and grew rapidly to their maximum size. Actually I have one white Skirt Tetra that I bought about 4 yrs ago. Maybe they're locally bred so they're accustomed to our hard water??! The Syrian fish market usually imports from Asia, in addition to the locally bred fish (mostly Goldfish, Guppies, Angelfish sometimes..) Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:29 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Confused Hi Noura, You're very fortunate to have the pH that you do for your Malawi Cichlids, right out of the tap. While your water wouldn't be very good at all for South American Cichlids, or even that good for Tetras, it's ideal for the type of fishes you enjoy keeping. I remember you also had another Malawi Cichlid when uou first started with these Yellow Labs -- I think, a species of Melanochromis -- and was wondering if you still had any of them. You may have brought them back to the shop, but I don't recall. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54130	From: Ava	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Housing male Betta and African Dwarf Frog?

Hello again all. I currently have a male betta in a 10 gallon tank, and an african dwarf frog in a 1.5 gallon. I've been thinking of housing them together in the 10 gal. I've been reading, and as far as I can tell, betta's and ADF's can make good tank-mates. I just wanted to get another opinion. The last time this betta was housed with another fish was with an axolotl. They were fine at first, but when the axolotl got larger it became an issue and they had to be separated, which is why I have the betta now. However, the ADF doesn't look like a fish, nor does it have crazy colors, and it's small. I was thinking to get extra plants and hiding spots, and then monitor them to see how they get along. I understand the feeding issue and the competition, I would take measures to be sure each got their share of food. Also, I've been using BETTAFIX by API to help repair the betta's fins from his last fight (he's a tad torn up). It's all natural with melaleuca, but I wanted to be sure that it wouldn't bother the frog. Opinions/advice appreciated! -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54131	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Used tank question

Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and fish in it. Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), stand and heater. Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help. Rob -- Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54132	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Housing male Betta and African Dwarf Frog?

personally i wouldn't risk it, but if you put more plants and hiding spots in you could try it. i know snails an bettas don't mix from expereance. --- On Tue, 10/16/12, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: From: Ava <aboswell91@...> Subject: [AquaticLife] Housing male Betta and African Dwarf Frog? To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 3:31 PM   Hello again all. I currently have a male betta in a 10 gallon tank, and an african dwarf frog in a 1.5 gallon. I've been thinking of housing them together in the 10 gal. I've been reading, and as far as I can tell, betta's and ADF's can make good tank-mates. I just wanted to get another opinion. The last time this betta was housed with another fish was with an axolotl. They were fine at first, but when the axolotl got larger it became an issue and they had to be separated, which is why I have the betta now. However, the ADF doesn't look like a fish, nor does it have crazy colors, and it's small. I was thinking to get extra plants and hiding spots, and then monitor them to see how they get along. I understand the feeding issue and the competition, I would take measures to be sure each got their share of food. Also, I've been using BETTAFIX by API to help repair the betta's fins from his last fight (he's a tad torn up). It's all natural with melaleuca, but I wanted to be sure that it wouldn't bother the frog. Opinions/advice appreciated! -Ava [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54133	From: harry perry	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question

This has worked well for me in the past. In a 3/4 full 10 gal.tank with no fish!!!!!! I add a cup of bleach. Stir the gravel well, put in anything else you want to disinfect like rocks equipment, no live plants. Fill the tank and let sit for a few days. Everything will be disinfected and you will be able to see if it leaks. You can clean up any water scale, scum etc. With just plain vinegar. When your ready to set up rinse everything thoroughly until you can't detect any hint of bleach and use a good deliminator. Of course cycle the tank before adding fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Rob Mazur <rpmazur@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Used tank question   Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and fish in it. Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), stand and heater. Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help. Rob -- Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54134	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question

Hi Rob, Sounds like a good price indeed! What size tank is it? As you say, the first thing you want to be sure of is whether it will safely hold water-do you know why the previous owner is getting rid of it? If it is a glass tank then as long as there are no cracks or chips in it the weak point is going to be the seals. This is especially so if the tank has been previously moved with any water in it as the silicone is not strong enough to deal with those forces. The best way to check this is to set up the tank, preferably outside & fill it up-then leave it for a day & mark the height of the water. If, after a day the line is still at the 'high water mark' then you can be almost certain of a watertight tank. If it is particularly big or long tank then be sure that is is indeed an aquatic tank rather than a vivarium. Larger aquatic tanks usually have strengthening struts across the middle & are generally thicker glass whereas vivariums that are not designed for so much pressure are usually thinner glass with no strengthening bars. You can test this as well when you fill it up because an unstrengthened tank will bow along the edges & possibly break. If you know that the tank has had water in it previously then this is not an issue. I know you said that it came with gravel but unless you know for sure that is was full of water then it could have housed amphibians instead of fish. Be sure to always transport the tank empty & preferably on a flat, solid base board keeping everything upright so that the angles all remain at 90 degrees. Personally I would not use the old gravel because as well as harboring potential parasites or bacteria, unless it has been submerged in bio water then most, if not all of the good bacteria on it would have died off by now anyway. A good way to sterilise the tank is to dissolve a sprinkling of Potassium Permanganate crystals in it when it is full so you can do this while you are testing it for any leaks. The PP turns the water a purple colour & will take care of any thing nasty that may be hitching a ride. PP is widely available at many pharmacies & chemists. Once the tank is emptied & rinsed out then gently scrub the inside with some salt while there is still a trace of water-any salt that is 100% pure will do fine. Finally rinse thoroughly with running water from a hose & your tank is ready. Here are a couple of links to fishless cycling: http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm There is probably a lot more that the other members can tell you, this is just my two pennyworth! John<o)))< On 16 October 2012 21:35, Rob Mazur <rpmazur@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested > in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. > > Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. > The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" > safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and > fish in it. > > Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater > fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter > (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, > and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), > stand and heater. > > Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I > need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a > good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be > replaced. > > Thanks for your help. > > Rob > > -- > Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against > you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." > --Luke 15:21 > > But the voice of truth tells me a different story > The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' > The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' > Out of all the voices calling out to me > I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth > --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > you > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > --James A. Lovell > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54135	From: aliengoddess	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Mollies

I love your sailfin and dalmation mollies. Unfortunatel, the species doens't love me. I've killed a few over the last 4 years, so I stick with my evil cichlids--love the bad tempered little boogers. Monica

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54136	From: harry perry	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: : Rob..again....Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question

At worse, it's not difficult to repair leaking seams. Harry ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:49 PM Subject: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question This has worked well for me in the past. In a 3/4 full 10 gal.tank with no fish!!!!!! I add a cup of bleach. Stir the gravel well, put in anything else you want to disinfect like rocks equipment, no live plants. Fill the tank and let sit for a few days. Everything will be disinfected and you will be able to see if it leaks. You can clean up any water scale, scum etc. With just plain vinegar. When your ready to set up rinse everything thoroughly until you can't detect any hint of bleach and use a good deliminator. Of course cycle the tank before adding fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Rob Mazur <rpmazur@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Used tank question   Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and fish in it. Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), stand and heater. Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help. Rob -- Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54137	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question

I’d try to fill it with water there – and use a siphon or buckets to empty it, not try to tip it, of course. Or else get a guarantee to take it home and test it. But since you don’t now the people you’d be getting it from, and if you could afford ot lose the money you’d get a new tank, I’d really try to test it there. Dora From: Rob Mazur Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Used tank question Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and fish in it. Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), stand and heater. Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help. Rob -- Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54138	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: My New Photos Uploaded

Hello, I've uploaded photos from my tanks and the fish store today. But was waiting for the moderators to approve them. You can find them in these albums: Noura's Tanks in Syria : Community tank. Malawi Cichlids: the caves that I made with PVC pipes, and the current Yellow Labs that I keep in my Cichlid tank. Fish Transport: Some photos of the brutal transport that fish have to suffer through. I felt like suffocating when I saw these in the local fish store, and took the pics myself. Take care, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54139	From: Noura	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies

Thank you , Monica! I love these Mollies too. As the photo shows, the Dalmation female was VERY pregnant when I bought her, but unfortunately I couldn't collect her fry. I never saw any of them actually! I don't like to put pregnant livebearers in breeding tanks, I just hope to be lucky and catch them giving birth, and put them in the hatchery. Mollies never did good in my tanks in the past, but this year I've been constantly adding salt to make their water brackish, and it works! I have four fry now that grew to adulthood and one of them just released her first fry batch! However that Sailfin male doesn't seem to be interested in any females, and leaves them all to the other "much smaller" male who isn't a sailfin type. Have a nice day, Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aliengoddess Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mollies I love your sailfin and dalmation mollies. Unfortunatel, the species doens't love me. I've killed a few over the last 4 years, so I stick with my evil cichlids--love the bad tempered little boogers. Monica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54140	From: Dora Smith	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question

One thing – don’t put the vinegar and the chlorox in the tank together! Dora From: harry perry Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Rob......Re: [AquaticLife] Used tank question This has worked well for me in the past. In a 3/4 full 10 gal.tank with no fish!!!!!! I add a cup of bleach. Stir the gravel well, put in anything else you want to disinfect like rocks equipment, no live plants. Fill the tank and let sit for a few days. Everything will be disinfected and you will be able to see if it leaks. You can clean up any water scale, scum etc. With just plain vinegar. When your ready to set up rinse everything thoroughly until you can't detect any hint of bleach and use a good deliminator. Of course cycle the tank before adding fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Rob Mazur <mailto:rpmazur%40gmail.com> To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:35 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Used tank question Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water and fish in it. Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), stand and heater. Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be replaced. Thanks for your help. Rob -- Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54141	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded

Hi Noura, Those pictures of the poor fish being transported are pretty gruesome-how many were dead when the bags were opened & put in that larger tub? John*<o)))< * On 16 October 2012 23:13, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > Hello, > > I've uploaded photos from my tanks and the fish store today. But was > waiting > for the moderators to approve them. > > You can find them in these albums: > > Noura's Tanks in Syria : Community tank. > > Malawi Cichlids: the caves that I made with PVC pipes, and the current > Yellow Labs that I keep in my Cichlid tank. > > Fish Transport: Some photos of the brutal transport that fish have to > suffer > through. I felt like suffocating when I saw these in the local fish store, > and took the pics myself. > > Take care, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54142	From: D and g F	Date: 10/16/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies

i have cichlids and mollies and guppeys and 3 placos   ________________________________ From: aliengoddess <davis4000_2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:45 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Mollies   I love your sailfin and dalmation mollies. Unfortunatel, the species doens't love me. I've killed a few over the last 4 years, so I stick with my evil cichlids--love the bad tempered little boogers. Monica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54143	From: Noura	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded

To my great surprise: NONE! But some may have died later. I examined them carefully when the store guy unpacked them, it was a 4-7 hour travel . I actually urged him to empty the bags immediately and not wait any further. The poor fish were barely covered in water in those bags! Unbelievable! I also remember seeing tanks full of Goldfish who have large injuries in the past, particularly on the sides, I'm guessing that such brutal transportation was where those injuries came from. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 4:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My New Photos Uploaded Hi Noura, Those pictures of the poor fish being transported are pretty gruesome-how many were dead when the bags were opened & put in that larger tub? John*<o)))< * On 16 October 2012 23:13, Noura <n-ocean@... <mailto:n-ocean%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > ** > > > > > Hello, > > I've uploaded photos from my tanks and the fish store today. But was > waiting > for the moderators to approve them. > > You can find them in these albums: > > Noura's Tanks in Syria : Community tank. > > Malawi Cichlids: the caves that I made with PVC pipes, and the current > Yellow Labs that I keep in my Cichlid tank. > > Fish Transport: Some photos of the brutal transport that fish have to > suffer > through. I felt like suffocating when I saw these in the local fish store, > and took the pics myself. > > Take care, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54144	From: m davis	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: My New Photos Uploaded

are u in US? That store should  be off limits to u,if u have another choice.  There is one store in town here that I put off my list; one of my fish died before i got it home because of inadequate water. Man, I looked at those bags and about freaked. Not good on fish to have so many fish in such a small bag and you could see that the oxygen and water levels were inadequate. 1. what kind of fish---?feeder goldfish 2. do u have alternatives? monica   ________________________________ From: Noura <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 1:09 AM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] My New Photos Uploaded To my great surprise: NONE! But some may have died later.  I examined them carefully when the store guy unpacked them, it was a 4-7 hour travel .  I actually urged him to empty the bags immediately and not wait any further. The poor fish were barely covered in water in those bags! Unbelievable! I also remember seeing tanks full of Goldfish who have large injuries in the past, particularly on the sides, I'm guessing that such brutal transportation was where those injuries came from. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 4:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My New Photos Uploaded   Hi Noura, Those pictures of the poor fish being transported are pretty gruesome-how many were dead when the bags were opened & put in that larger tub? John*<o)))< * On 16 October 2012 23:13, Noura <n-ocean@... <mailto:n-ocean%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > ** > > > > > Hello, > > I've uploaded photos from my tanks and the fish store today. But was > waiting > for the moderators to approve them. > > You can find them in these albums: > > Noura's Tanks in Syria : Community tank. > > Malawi Cichlids: the caves that I made with PVC pipes, and the current > Yellow Labs that I keep in my Cichlid tank. > > Fish Transport: Some photos of the brutal transport that fish have to > suffer > through. I felt like suffocating when I saw these in the local fish store, > and took the pics myself. > > Take care, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54145	From: m davis	Date: 10/17/2012
Subject: Re: Mollies

your answer shows that we need to know more about  the fish species that we love.  Pet stores in my area are kinda iffy when it comes to fish knowledge, particularly whenit is necessary to add salt.  And some of the newer fish books don't tell the whole story; which is why i collect fish books.  I have some that are older than I---and I'm 56.   ________________________________ From: Noura <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:19 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Mollies Thank you , Monica! I love these Mollies too. As the photo shows, the Dalmation female was VERY pregnant when I bought her, but unfortunately I couldn't collect her fry. I never saw any of them actually! I don't like to put pregnant livebearers in breeding tanks, I just hope to be lucky and catch them giving birth, and put them in the hatchery. Mollies never did good in my tanks in the past, but this year I've been constantly adding salt to make their water brackish, and it works! I have four fry now that grew to adulthood and one of them just  released her first fry batch! However that Sailfin male doesn't seem to be interested in any females, and leaves them all to the other "much smaller" male who isn't a sailfin type. Have a nice day, Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aliengoddess Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 12:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Mollies   I love your sailfin and dalmation mollies. Unfortunatel, the species doens't love me. I've killed a few over the last 4 years, so I stick with my evil cichlids--love the bad tempered little boogers. Monica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54146	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: I smell wood......

Lord bless me it's build day. The new tank has looked real pretty sitting on the kitchen table for... hmm.. coming on 3 weeks now.... I think even Job would be impressed with that... :-)>>> My fish have all been informed that they must pack their bags today, because they are moving on saturday. The inconvience of having a breeder tank on ones kitchen table was unavoidable however, as on inspecting closely our antique table that we use, I discovered that one of the legs had been broken long ago, and repaired. This unfortunate fact made me concerned enough to start shopping around for a store bought stand. I was however dreadfully dissapointed with the quality of stand my budget allowed for... so I designed my own stand. I did the math, and for about half the cost of a moderately priced stand, I could build my own... and build it in such a manner, as it just may survive the apocalypse.... :-)>>> I have all the materials ready to build it today, most of it will be made of white cedar. My dear wife will be helping me with the move tomorrow. I'll put some pics of the process up later... after the dust settles. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54147	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: pH changes

Hi Ray, First off, thanks so much for all your advice. The fish that are left are all swimming around , just like before. Been doing water changes almost evry day . What’s odd is the pH has not changed much according to the API master test kit. Is this normal or will it jump in stages? I’ve added some crushed coral but only about half of a small pot. Should I go ahead and add more? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54148	From: Noura	Date: 10/19/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......

Good luck Al. , and may God help you and your fish! Waiting for photos! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:24 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] I smell wood...... Lord bless me it's build day. The new tank has looked real pretty sitting on the kitchen table for... hmm.. coming on 3 weeks now.... I think even Job would be impressed with that... :-)>>> My fish have all been informed that they must pack their bags today, because they are moving on saturday. The inconvience of having a breeder tank on ones kitchen table was unavoidable however, as on inspecting closely our antique table that we use, I discovered that one of the legs had been broken long ago, and repaired. This unfortunate fact made me concerned enough to start shopping around for a store bought stand. I was however dreadfully dissapointed with the quality of stand my budget allowed for... so I designed my own stand. I did the math, and for about half the cost of a moderately priced stand, I could build my own... and build it in such a manner, as it just may survive the apocalypse.... :-)>>> I have all the materials ready to build it today, most of it will be made of white cedar. My dear wife will be helping me with the move tomorrow. I'll put some pics of the process up later... after the dust settles. :-)>>> Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54149	From: kwondrash	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Thoughts on cannister filter

Good morning! I have a 30 Gallon long saltwater tank. It is mainly a FOWLer but lately I've added several colorful Zoas and they seem to be doing great, especially under actinic lights at night :) I had been running a Whisper 30EX HOB filter, but noticed that my nitrates have been staying at 40. I do regular water changes of about 5-6 gallons every 2 weeks. I have 5 fish in the tank, all about 2.5". I've just bought a cannister filter rated for a 55 gallon tank...I've never used one before, have always had HOB style. Does anyone else run this style for a tank like mine? Have good luck with it? I plan on running a Nitrate removing filter in one of the compartments, since this one offers a wide range of medias. Also, I bought a large tub to use for mixing saltwater, and plan on upping my water change amount to about 8 gallons. I think I have not been removing a big enough amount. I've studied the theory of doing larger water changes than that to lower nitrates but am worried about a possible PH crash? My zoos are fully open and looking nice (except I can't keep a pulsating Xenia alive in there to save my soul LOL)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54150	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: pump

Has anyone ever used a submersible pump in their aquariums? thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54151	From: pam andress	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter

I know NOTHING about salt tanks, but I used mostly canister filters I hate HOB ones and love the canister ones. I have 4 fluval filters and they work great! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: kwondrash1@... Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 12:01:43 +0000 Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts on cannister filter Good morning! I have a 30 Gallon long saltwater tank. It is mainly a FOWLer but lately I've added several colorful Zoas and they seem to be doing great, especially under actinic lights at night :) I had been running a Whisper 30EX HOB filter, but noticed that my nitrates have been staying at 40. I do regular water changes of about 5-6 gallons every 2 weeks. I have 5 fish in the tank, all about 2.5". I've just bought a cannister filter rated for a 55 gallon tank...I've never used one before, have always had HOB style. Does anyone else run this style for a tank like mine? Have good luck with it? I plan on running a Nitrate removing filter in one of the compartments, since this one offers a wide range of medias. Also, I bought a large tub to use for mixing saltwater, and plan on upping my water change amount to about 8 gallons. I think I have not been removing a big enough amount. I've studied the theory of doing larger water changes than that to lower nitrates but am worried about a possible PH crash? My zoos are fully open and looking nice (except I can't keep a pulsating Xenia alive in there to save my soul LOL) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54152	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: pump

I'm going to start when I install my under-substrate jets. Do you have a question? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Red Barn Farm Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] pump Has anyone ever used a submersible pump in their aquariums? thanks, Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54153	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter

Do you already have a skimmer? I don’t think canisters make nitrates any lower than HOBs. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kwondrash Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 8:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts on cannister filter Good morning! I have a 30 Gallon long saltwater tank. It is mainly a FOWLer but lately I've added several colorful Zoas and they seem to be doing great, especially under actinic lights at night :) I had been running a Whisper 30EX HOB filter, but noticed that my nitrates have been staying at 40. I do regular water changes of about 5-6 gallons every 2 weeks. I have 5 fish in the tank, all about 2.5". I've just bought a cannister filter rated for a 55 gallon tank...I've never used one before, have always had HOB style. Does anyone else run this style for a tank like mine? Have good luck with it? I plan on running a Nitrate removing filter in one of the compartments, since this one offers a wide range of medias. Also, I bought a large tub to use for mixing saltwater, and plan on upping my water change amount to about 8 gallons. I think I have not been removing a big enough amount. I've studied the theory of doing larger water changes than that to lower nitrates but am worried about a possible PH crash? My zoos are fully open and looking nice (except I can't keep a pulsating Xenia alive in there to save my soul LOL) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54154	From: kwondrash	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter

I have a strange tank size unfortuantely---36"long by only 12 deep by 18 high. I had a small protein skimmer that I tired to put in, but then I could not get my tank cover on. I need that to hold up my lights so I had to take the skimmer out. Not deep enough front to back to fit one in and the cover on top. That's why I went for the cannister filter---more power with nothing in the way on back. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Do you already have a skimmer? I don't think canisters make nitrates any > lower than HOBs. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of kwondrash > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 8:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Thoughts on cannister filter > > > > > > Good morning! I have a 30 Gallon long saltwater tank. It is mainly a FOWLer > but lately I've added several colorful Zoas and they seem to be doing great, > especially under actinic lights at night :) > I had been running a Whisper 30EX HOB filter, but noticed that my nitrates > have been staying at 40. I do regular water changes of about 5-6 gallons > every 2 weeks. I have 5 fish in the tank, all about 2.5". > I've just bought a cannister filter rated for a 55 gallon tank...I've never > used one before, have always had HOB style. > Does anyone else run this style for a tank like mine? Have good luck with > it? I plan on running a Nitrate removing filter in one of the compartments, > since this one offers a wide range of medias. > Also, I bought a large tub to use for mixing saltwater, and plan on upping > my water change amount to about 8 gallons. I think I have not been removing > a big enough amount. I've studied the theory of doing larger water changes > than that to lower nitrates but am worried about a possible PH crash? My > zoos are fully open and looking nice (except I can't keep a pulsating Xenia > alive in there to save my soul LOL) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54155	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Re: pump

Hi Rose, What fish do you have? I used one a few years ago to move the lower water around a 40 gallon Goldfish tank but they didn't like it & started getting jumpy so I removed it. Now they are in a 100 gallon & I use an Eheim canister with a an extended outlet nozzle so that it reaches down a back corner & fires across the bottom of my tank. It has the same effect but without the noise of a submerged pump, obviously this may not be the case for all fish types but mine hated it. John*<o)))< * On 20 October 2012 20:04, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I'm going to start when I install my under-substrate jets. Do you have a > question? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Red Barn Farm > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] pump > > > Has anyone ever used a submersible pump in their aquariums? thanks, Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54156	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to take them home for my tanks. If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw them off. Gail

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54157	From: harry perry	Date: 10/20/2012
Subject: Gail.....Re: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank

I have read in a few places that if the rock contains an air pocket somewhere the rock could explode. Another Internet myth????? may be. I always get my rocks from the wild eh......the wilds of my neighbors landscaping. Any how I wash mine off with bleach and then rinse until I can't smell the bleach any more. Important to note some rocks are porous so I wouldn't soak them. Sandstone is porous I would think granite isn't. Harry ________________________________ From: Gail Dennis <gadennis42@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank   While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to take them home for my tanks. If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw them off. Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54158	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

What kind of cichlids? Yes, you could put them in the tank. Check with the local authorities to ensure it's legal to take them. Adding rocks can cause the fish to fight over territories, or it can create more territories so each can find a peaceful place to claim.you never know which it will be, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Dennis Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to take them home for my tanks. If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw them off. Gail [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54159	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Gail.....Re: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Hi Harry, I haven't heard of rocks exploding. Just my opinion but I wouldn't recommend using any wild-harvested material for use in fish tanks because you simply don't know what you are getting & if there is anything nasty that can hitch a ride into your tank. Even with bleaching/scrubbing/boiling you may not remove stubborn parasites or bacteria from all the nook & crannies. Wild fish are far hardier than tank or pond dwellers so I think it is always best to bite the bullet & pay the shop price for your decor purely in the interests of your pets. You can test the make-up of the rocks if oyu are unsure by doing the vinegar test. John*<o)))< * On 21 October 2012 04:50, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have read in a few places that if the rock contains an air pocket > somewhere the rock could explode. Another Internet myth????? may be. > > I always get my rocks from the wild eh......the wilds of my neighbors > landscaping. > > Any how I wash mine off with bleach and then rinse until I can't smell the > bleach any more. > > Important to note some rocks are porous so I wouldn't soak them. Sandstone > is porous I would think granite isn't. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Gail Dennis <gadennis42@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:29 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > > � > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > take them home for my tanks. > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > them off. > > Gail > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54160	From: Red Barn Farm	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: pump

I just brought in my fish from my outside pond. I have koi and goldfish. The big fish I put in a large tank in the basement and put in the submersible pump I had in the pond outside. I had about 30 baby fish that I put in a very large rubbermaid tub. I have a bubbler going in that tub but am thinking of using a small submersible pump intended for aquariums and was wondering how many people use them. My 2 aquariums upstairs have the pump filters that came with the tanks. I liked how the submersible pump in the pond filtered the water from the bottom of the pond. thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54161	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very well after bleach. Al. > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to take them home for my tanks. > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw them off. > > Gail >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54162	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Ya I wouldn't recommend boiling rocks and really it is just overkill anyway. If you are concerned and want to sanitize them, then give them a cleaning with a brush and water with a little bit of bleach (no need to over due it, a capfull or two in a small bucket is plenty). Rinse well (and if you have and use it, you could put them in some water with dechlorinator for a little while) and use them. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54163	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for your tank. What kind of cichlids? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very well after bleach. Al. > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to take them home for my tanks. > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw them off. > > Gail > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54164	From: Cheryl Ellison	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter

To remove nitrates you either have to do large water changes or to convert nitrate into nitrogen gas then you need an anaerobic filter such as a DSB (deep sand bed) filter or an anoxic filter. You also should be running a skimmer to get rid of as many DOC's as possible. Canister filters do not remove waste, they trap waste, they do a great job of that, but you need to clean them out often and it won't cure your nitrate problem. Cheryl from Seattle http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54165	From: harry perry	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/betta-mahachaiensis/ Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54166	From: rei_tremor	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?

I was browsing on youtube and saw some open bottom aquarium. They put an aquarium inside an aquarium but the opening is on the side of a long aquarium and the opening is the one inside of the other aquarium and they use a siphon to take out the air of the standing aquarium so that the air will go up to it. Like this one on the link below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=fvwrel

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54167	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

I have a variety of African cichlids such as Flamebacks Electric blues Yellow Labs Yellow Jackets Peacocks Gail On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for > your tank. What kind of cichlids? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely > submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them > in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that > would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that > failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine > varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... > Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very > well after bleach. > Al. > > > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > take them home for my tanks. > > > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > them off. > > > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54168	From: m davis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

we do not know everything under the heavens; there is a universe, or two, to explore.monica ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/betta-mahachaiensis/ Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54169	From: m davis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

what sized tank? I need to rearrange my tank. my little vicious monsters are having a blast, particulasrly the biggist mean fish in the tank, a 4 inch texas cichlid   monica ________________________________ From: Gail Dennis <gadennis42@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank I have a variety of African cichlids such as Flamebacks Electric blues Yellow Labs Yellow Jackets Peacocks Gail On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for > your tank. What kind of cichlids? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely > submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them > in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that > would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that > failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine > varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... > Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very > well after bleach. > Al. > > > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > take them home for my tanks. > > > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > them off. > > > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54170	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Quite a mix, hope you have a big tank. But they would all enjoy some rocks in their tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gail Dennis Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:36 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank I have a variety of African cichlids such as Flamebacks Electric blues Yellow Labs Yellow Jackets Peacocks Gail On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@... <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for > your tank. What kind of cichlids? > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely > submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them > in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that > would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that > failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine > varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... > Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very > well after bleach. > Al. > > > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > take them home for my tanks. > > > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > them off. > > > > Gail > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54171	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Actually I have 2 cichlid tanks. A 125 gal and a 30 gal. Yea they are very territorial the little buggers. Little frys are showing up in my big tank so I wanted to give them more hiding places from the big guys. It looks like soon I'll have to thin out the big tank so I don't have an overload. Thankfully I have a nice family owned fish shop that loves to take my fish in exchange for supplies. Gail On Oct 21, 2012, at 6:04 PM, m davis <davis4000_2000@...> wrote: > what sized tank? I need to rearrange my tank. my little vicious monsters are having a blast, particulasrly the biggist mean fish in the tank, a 4 inch texas cichlid > monica > > ________________________________ > From: Gail Dennis <gadennis42@...> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > I have a variety of African cichlids such as > Flamebacks > Electric blues > Yellow Labs > Yellow Jackets > Peacocks > > Gail > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for > > your tank. What kind of cichlids? > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > > > I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely > > submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them > > in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that > > would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that > > failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine > > varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... > > Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very > > well after bleach. > > Al. > > > > > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > > take them home for my tanks. > > > > > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. > > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > > them off. > > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54172	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?

I've set up similar things in outdoor ponds-really simple to do yet so effective & the fish seem to love the new found views they get! You set the upturned vessel on 4 sturdy bricks or stones & make sure the bottom is well under water. The only difficult bit is filling it up which is rather tricky-especially trying to get the last bit of air out. It's exactly the same principle as when you are doing the washing up & lift a glass tumbler upside down full of water. Search 'Fish Observatory' on YouTube & you'll find loads. John*<o)))< * On 21 October 2012 20:24, rei_tremor <lovemoako@...> wrote: > ** > > > I was browsing on youtube and saw some open bottom aquarium. They put an > aquarium inside an aquarium but the opening is on the side of a long > aquarium and the opening is the one inside of the other aquarium and they > use a siphon to take out the air of the standing aquarium so that the air > will go up to it. Like this one on the link below. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81goz-uxU&feature=fvwrel > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54173	From: Brian Madera	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Anyone knows how to do an open bottom aquarium?

Just some quick searching got me this page that explains it.  Sounds like an air pump with input and output hoses set up so the air is sucked out of the top and reintroduced at the bottom.  The same air is reused over and over again.  I'm thinking a small powerhead pointed into the upside down tank with an air inlet tube positioned at the top should work but that is just a guess.  Might be easier to find than the vacuum pump. ...Brian in PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54174	From: Gail Dennis	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Yes Donna. I have a 125 gal tank that I will be thinning out again soon. Gail On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > Quite a mix, hope you have a big tank. But they would all enjoy some rocks > in their tank. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Gail Dennis > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:36 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > I have a variety of African cichlids such as > Flamebacks > Electric blues > Yellow Labs > Yellow Jackets > Peacocks > > Gail > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@... > <mailto:djransome%40optonline.net> > wrote: > > > If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect > for > > your tank. What kind of cichlids? > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank > > > > I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I > completely > > submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak > them > > in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them > that > > would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, > that > > failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine > > varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... > > Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very > > well after bleach. > > Al. > > > > > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw > > lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to > > take them home for my tanks. > > > > > > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids > > tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the > bottom. > > My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw > > them off. > > > > > > Gail > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54175	From: Chris	Date: 10/21/2012
Subject: Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank

Are they free? Gail Dennis <gadennis42@...> wrote: >I have a variety of African cichlids such as >Flamebacks >Electric blues >Yellow Labs >Yellow Jackets >Peacocks > >Gail > >On Oct 21, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > >> If your cichlids prefer a high pH, the rocks that bubble may be perfect for >> your tank. What kind of cichlids? >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Al Keep >> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 10:06 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Rocks in Cichlid Tank >> >> I've used various rocks from different places with no problems. I completely >> submerse them for a couple of days in straight bleach.. but first soak them >> in vinegar.. if the rocks bubble, they probbably have something in them that >> would mess up your p.h. I've used a couple that i really liked anyway, that >> failed that test... just paint them with a few coats of "spar marine >> varnish"... fish safe and it seals them... >> Of course rinse well between vinegar and bleach, and very very very very >> well after bleach. >> Al. >> >> > While I was on vacation in Rockport, Ma (known for it's granite), I saw >> lots and lots of granite rocks on one of the beaches just beckoning me to >> take them home for my tanks. >> > >> > If I boiled these solid granite rocks, could I put them in my cichlids >> tank? I wouldn't stack them but just place in various places on the bottom. >> My tanks are now doing wonderful and I don't want to do anything to throw >> them off. >> > >> > Gail >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54176	From: joe t	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

Hi Harry, What you sent was interesting, though I have to say I was not much impressed with the fish itself. But, hey, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Maybe someone call help me on one thing, though. The picture showing the fish's nest. I clearly saw the nest on the left, but there is a blue circle that the person wanted to call out attention to. What are they pointing out? Seems like an air bubble to me. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54177	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

The nest is pictured (up close, zoomed in) on the left, what they are circling in the bigger picture is that same nest zoomed out. Amber On 10/22/2012 8:38 AM, joe t wrote: > > Hi Harry, > > What you sent was interesting, though I have to say I was not much > impressed with the fish itself. But, hey, everyone has their own likes > and dislikes. > > Maybe someone call help me on one thing, though. The picture showing > the fish's nest. I clearly saw the nest on the left, but there is a > blue circle that the person wanted to call out attention to. What are > they pointing out? Seems like an air bubble to me. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54178	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: Thoughts on cannister filter

Overly large water changes in a reef tank are not a good idea. (once you add corals it is considered a reef) Corals are so very sensitive to changes in water chemistry as well as temp, salinity, lighting, etc. Even zoas, which some of them are easier to keep than some of the other coral species, are still super sensitive to changes. It is always safer to do more frequent small changes than infrequent large ones. Xenia that doesn't pulse... nitrates will surely contribute to that but also check calcium levels and the amount of light it is getting. Xenia can be a bit touchy too. Can you list your spg/salinity please? Your calcium level? pH? Are you seeing any ammonia or nitrite? It would also help a lot if you could list all of the animals in the tank, what kind of substrate you're using and how deep it is, and how much live rock is in there. You can skim the tank's surface manually. If you can't use a skimmer I would highly recommend doing this regularly (at least once/wk). Those surface proteins, if allowed to collect on the water's surface, will not only cause deterioration in water quality but will block light for the corals and will prevent proper gas exchange at the water's surface. This can eventually cause issues for the fish as much as for the corals. Do you have any photos of your tank? If not, can you post any? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Cheryl Ellison" <cheryl.ellison@...> wrote: > > To remove nitrates you either have to do large water changes or to convert nitrate into nitrogen gas then you need an anaerobic filter such as a DSB (deep sand bed) filter or an anoxic filter. You also should be running a skimmer to get rid of as many DOC's as possible. Canister filters do not remove waste, they trap waste, they do a great job of that, but you need to clean them out often and it won't cure your nitrate problem. > > Cheryl from Seattle > http://cherylshtuff.blogspot.com/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54179	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 10/22/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

Definitely something i would love to have if i could find one.   Emma. --- On Mon, 10/22/12, Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> wrote: From: Amber Berglund <arberglund@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 22, 2012, 3:53 PM   The nest is pictured (up close, zoomed in) on the left, what they are circling in the bigger picture is that same nest zoomed out. Amber On 10/22/2012 8:38 AM, joe t wrote: > > Hi Harry, > > What you sent was interesting, though I have to say I was not much > impressed with the fish itself. But, hey, everyone has their own likes > and dislikes. > > Maybe someone call help me on one thing, though. The picture showing > the fish's nest. I clearly saw the nest on the left, but there is a > blue circle that the person wanted to call out attention to. What are > they pointing out? Seems like an air bubble to me. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54180	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....

Well; we've all made it through ok. Do it yourself projects do tend to hurt more as one gets older. Build day was friday, and setting up the new tank day, was saturday. This being tuesday, and everyone; finned or not; being alive still, I'm pretty confident that the move was a success. I had three buckets of tank water from the old tank, during the move; one with the gravel in it, and the filter on the side of the bucket running. one with water and decor, and one with fish. For the stand I used Two foot long cedar posts.. 2 8x8's, 2 6x6's, 2 5x5's, 6 pine 2x4's and a piece of plywood. I attached the cedar posts together with dowels and glue, and attached the 2x4 and plywood, with deck screws. The shelves I made of plywood, and they just sit on the ledges. We're not sure if we will paint the cedar posts or not; it looks nice, and cedar stands up well to water... though I doubt it will get wet, I'm careful. I put a few pic's of the process up in my file. I'll leave it be for a few weeks, before any more stocking.... hmmm.. just enough time to get something, and have it go through the quarantine tank. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Lord bless me it's build day. > > The new tank has looked real pretty sitting on the kitchen > table for... hmm.. coming on 3 weeks now.... I think even Job would > be impressed with that... > :-)>>> > My fish have all been informed that they must pack their > bags today, because they are moving on saturday. > The inconvience of having a breeder tank on ones kitchen table was unavoidable however, as on inspecting closely our antique > table that we use, I discovered that one of the legs had been broken long ago, and repaired. This unfortunate fact made me concerned enough to start shopping around for a store bought stand. > I was however dreadfully dissapointed with the quality of stand my budget allowed for... so I designed my own stand. I did the math, and for about half the cost of a moderately priced stand, I could build my own... and build it in such a manner, as it just may survive the apocalypse.... :-)>>> > I have all the materials ready to build it today, most of it will be made of white cedar. > My dear wife will be helping me with the move tomorrow. > I'll put some pics of the process up later... after the dust settles. > :-)>>> > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54181	From: Ava	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: African dwarf frog died

I lost an african dwarf frog this morning--I can't fathom why, other than my ammonia was at .5 I was being sure to feed them a lot (I had three), to make sure everyone got a share. They eat API frog and tadpole pellets. I break them because they're too big. I think maybe the food in the tank raised it? I have no other idea as to why. The other frog I got with that one is hanging out in the same area where my other one was, the filter, and not really fighting the water movement. It's not a place they usually hang BECAUSE of the movement. My third frog, the first one I had, is chilling at the bottom in his usual spot. I did a water change (only like 20%) and added prime. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to be sure I don't lose this other frog? -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54182	From: joe t	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: A new Betta has been discovered........Betta Mahachaienis

Thanks, Amber.    Thought my eyes were getting real bad.   LOL   joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54183	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: African dwarf frog died

Hi Ava, I'm sorry that you lost one of your frogs, can you tell us how long the tank has been set up & give us all of your water readings please. Has the ammonia always been at this level? How often do you change 20% of the water? John*<o)))< * On 23 October 2012 15:24, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > I lost an african dwarf frog this morning--I can't fathom why, other than > my ammonia was at .5 I was being sure to feed them a lot (I had three), to > make sure everyone got a share. They eat API frog and tadpole pellets. I > break them because they're too big. I think maybe the food in the tank > raised it? I have no other idea as to why. The other frog I got with that > one is hanging out in the same area where my other one was, the filter, and > not really fighting the water movement. It's not a place they usually hang > BECAUSE of the movement. My third frog, the first one I had, is chilling at > the bottom in his usual spot. > > I did a water change (only like 20%) and added prime. Is there anything I > can do in the meantime to be sure I don't lose this other frog? > > -Ava > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54184	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/23/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....

Great job Al, Thanks for posting pictures of the construction-I love seeing how things are made up as well as the finished article & yours looks solid enough an elephant could stand on it so well done! John*<o)))< * On 23 October 2012 20:28, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Well; we've all made it through ok. > Do it yourself projects do tend to hurt more as one gets older. > Build day was friday, and setting up the new tank day, was saturday. > This being tuesday, and everyone; finned or not; being alive still, I'm > pretty confident that the move was a success. > I had three buckets of tank water from the old tank, during the move; one > with the gravel in it, and the filter on the side of the bucket running. > one with water and decor, and one with fish. > For the stand I used Two foot long cedar posts.. 2 8x8's, 2 6x6's, 2 > 5x5's, 6 pine 2x4's and a piece of plywood. > I attached the cedar posts together with dowels and glue, and attached the > 2x4 and plywood, with deck screws. The shelves I made of plywood, and they > just sit on the ledges. We're not sure if we will paint the cedar posts or > not; it looks nice, and cedar stands up well to water... though I doubt it > will get wet, I'm careful. > I put a few pic's of the process up in my file. > I'll leave it be for a few weeks, before any more stocking.... hmmm.. > just enough time to get something, and have it go through the quarantine > tank. > > :-)>>> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > Lord bless me it's build day. > > > > The new tank has looked real pretty sitting on the kitchen > > table for... hmm.. coming on 3 weeks now.... I think even Job would > > be impressed with that... > > :-)>>> > > My fish have all been informed that they must pack their > > bags today, because they are moving on saturday. > > The inconvience of having a breeder tank on ones kitchen table was > unavoidable however, as on inspecting closely our antique > > table that we use, I discovered that one of the legs had been broken > long ago, and repaired. This unfortunate fact made me concerned enough to > start shopping around for a store bought stand. > > I was however dreadfully dissapointed with the quality of stand my > budget allowed for... so I designed my own stand. I did the math, and for > about half the cost of a moderately priced stand, I could build my own... > and build it in such a manner, as it just may survive the apocalypse.... > :-)>>> > > I have all the materials ready to build it today, most of it will be > made of white cedar. > > My dear wife will be helping me with the move tomorrow. > > I'll put some pics of the process up later... after the dust settles. > > :-)>>> > > > > Al. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54185	From: Rusty Barfield	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....

Nice stand Al. I like the way you laid the cedar posts lengthwise and used the lip to create shelves. Beefy and sturdy. Russ On Oct 23, 2012, at 2:28 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > Well; we've all made it through ok. > Do it yourself projects do tend to hurt more as one gets older. > Build day was friday, and setting up the new tank day, was saturday. > This being tuesday, and everyone; finned or not; being alive still, I'm pretty confident that the move was a success. > I had three buckets of tank water from the old tank, during the move; one with the gravel in it, and the filter on the side of the bucket running. one with water and decor, and one with fish. > For the stand I used Two foot long cedar posts.. 2 8x8's, 2 6x6's, 2 5x5's, 6 pine 2x4's and a piece of plywood. > I attached the cedar posts together with dowels and glue, and attached the 2x4 and plywood, with deck screws. The shelves I made of plywood, and they just sit on the ledges. We're not sure if we will paint the cedar posts or not; it looks nice, and cedar stands up well to water... though I doubt it will get wet, I'm careful. > I put a few pic's of the process up in my file. > I'll leave it be for a few weeks, before any more stocking.... hmmm.. > just enough time to get something, and have it go through the quarantine tank. > > :-)>>> > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: >> >> Lord bless me it's build day. >> >> The new tank has looked real pretty sitting on the kitchen >> table for... hmm.. coming on 3 weeks now.... I think even Job would >> be impressed with that... >> :-)>>> >> My fish have all been informed that they must pack their >> bags today, because they are moving on saturday. >> The inconvience of having a breeder tank on ones kitchen table was unavoidable however, as on inspecting closely our antique >> table that we use, I discovered that one of the legs had been broken long ago, and repaired. This unfortunate fact made me concerned enough to start shopping around for a store bought stand. >> I was however dreadfully dissapointed with the quality of stand my budget allowed for... so I designed my own stand. I did the math, and for about half the cost of a moderately priced stand, I could build my own... and build it in such a manner, as it just may survive the apocalypse.... :-)>>> >> I have all the materials ready to build it today, most of it will be made of white cedar. >> My dear wife will be helping me with the move tomorrow. >> I'll put some pics of the process up later... after the dust settles. >> :-)>>> >> >> Al. >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54186	From: Noura	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....

Hello Al, Good to know that everyone made it safely. I saw the pics, nice job ! I bet it will look better with some paint on, I never liked white wood, a transparent light brown color maybe "to keep the wood lines showing", or even all black? Just my personal opinion. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54187	From: Rob Mazur	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: Used tank question

Thanks to all that answered. I apologize for not writing back sooner.....been real busy at work the last couple of weeks. A couple of things to note: (1) I do know the owner, she's a coworker. (2) The angel fish that was in the tank ate all the smaller fish before the filter on the tank died. (3) It's a 30gal tank. (4) Since all they had left was a Betta, they decided to get rid of the tank. I was thinking that the old gravel probably wasn't a good idea for the same reason (bad bacteria) and I haven't looked at the tank as of yet but plan on looking at it this week. Thanks again guys and gals :) On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:34 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Rob, > > Sounds like a good price indeed! What size tank is it? As you say, the > first thing you want to be sure of is whether it will safely hold water-do > you know why the previous owner is getting rid of it? If it is a glass tank > then as long as there are no cracks or chips in it the weak point is going > to be the seals. This is especially so if the tank has been previously > moved with any water in it as the silicone is not strong enough to deal > with those forces. The best way to check this is to set up the tank, > preferably outside & fill it up-then leave it for a day & mark the height > of the water. If, after a day the line is still at the 'high water mark' > then you can be almost certain of a watertight tank. > > If it is particularly big or long tank then be sure that is is indeed an > aquatic tank rather than a vivarium. Larger aquatic tanks usually have > strengthening struts across the middle & are generally thicker glass > whereas vivariums that are not designed for so much pressure are usually > thinner glass with no strengthening bars. You can test this as well when > you fill it up because an unstrengthened tank will bow along the edges & > possibly break. If you know that the tank has had water in it previously > then this is not an issue. I know you said that it came with gravel but > unless you know for sure that is was full of water then it could have > housed amphibians instead of fish. > > Be sure to always transport the tank empty & preferably on a flat, solid > base board keeping everything upright so that the angles all remain at 90 > degrees. Personally I would not use the old gravel because as well as > harboring potential parasites or bacteria, unless it has been submerged in > bio water then most, if not all of the good bacteria on it would have died > off by now anyway. A good way to sterilise the tank is to dissolve a > sprinkling of Potassium Permanganate crystals in it when it is full so you > can do this while you are testing it for any leaks. The PP turns the water > a purple colour & will take care of any thing nasty that may be hitching a > ride. PP is widely available at many pharmacies & chemists. Once the tank > is emptied & rinsed out then gently scrub the inside with some salt while > there is still a trace of water-any salt that is 100% pure will do fine. > Finally rinse thoroughly with running water from a hose & your tank is > ready. > > Here are a couple of links to fishless cycling: > http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php > http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm > > There is probably a lot more that the other members can tell you, this is > just my two pennyworth! > > John<o)))< > > On 16 October 2012 21:35, Rob Mazur <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > Hi there. I have the opportunity to get a used tank that I am interested > > in (the price is right === free) and had some questions. > > > > Obviously I want to make sure there are no cracks or leaks in the glass. > > The tank is coming with gravel and I am wondering if that can be "reused" > > safely or if there is a way to "clean" the gravel before putting water > and > > fish in it. > > > > Also, what can I use to clean the tank that will be safe for freshwater > > fish. There are some things that I need to purchase, like a new filter > > (the old one went bad on the previous owner), test kit, water treatment, > > and thermometer. The tank is coming with a hood (but I may need lights), > > stand and heater. > > > > Is there anything I should be leery about getting used with the tank? I > > need to start the cycle before putting fish in there so, that would be a > > good time to see if any of the equipment coming with the tank needs to be > > replaced. > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > Rob > > > > -- > > Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and > against > > you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." > > --Luke 15:21 > > > > But the voice of truth tells me a different story > > The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' > > The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' > > Out of all the voices calling out to me > > I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth > > --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" > > > > There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch > things > > happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, > > you > > need to be a person who makes things happen.. > > --James A. Lovell > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > -- http://www.pbase.com/mazurgallery/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmazur/ http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b185/rpmazur/ ------ Then his son said to him "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I am no longer worthy to be called your son." --Luke 15:21 But the voice of truth tells me a different story The voice of truth says, 'Do not be afraid!' The voice of truth says, 'This is for My glory' Out of all the voices calling out to me I will choose to listen and believe the voice of truth --Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth" There are people who make things happen, there are people who watch things happen, and there are people who wonder what happened. To be successful, you need to be a person who makes things happen.. --James A. Lovell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54188	From: harry perry	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Al.........Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I smell wood......new homes and sor

I hope you don't spill any water during water changes etc. since you have electronic gear under the tank. Harry ________________________________ From: Noura <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:53 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....   Hello Al, Good to know that everyone made it safely. I saw the pics, nice job ! I bet it will look better with some paint on, I never liked white wood, a transparent light brown color maybe "to keep the wood lines showing", or even all black? Just my personal opinion. Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54189	From: Al Keep	Date: 10/24/2012
Subject: Re: I smell wood......new homes and sore muscles....

Thanks all, I appreciate it. I'm currently in negotiations with my wife.... And by that I mean, dropping the odd hint, that she could paint something... She used to do folk art...... I'll see if she bites. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54190	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2012
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2012, 1:0

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Sunday November 4, 2012 Time:   1:00 am - 1:00 am Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2012  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54191	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Aquaria Plants

I've discovered something I found interesting. Water lettuce, which dies during the winter and is commonly used in my area as a pond plant, thrives in an indoor aquarium. I have several and the fish seem to love the roots. The plants are even sending off little shoots and starting new plants. I like it. However, at least during the winter, it will not (based on my experience) live in an unheated tank. I tried it in my betta bowls and the plant died. But I thought floating aquarium water lettuce was worth sharing.. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54192	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/26/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants

Hi Mary, Thanks for that-I always find it interesting knowing which pond plants can also thrive indoors in the tank. A couple of the ponds I looks after have a large mass of another floating plant- Parrot's Feather so I tried some in my tank-it grew well as I threaded it through some spare holes along the back so that the roots were submerged while the lush green growth was under the tank lights. Unfortunately after a couple of weeks my Goldfish decided it would be great fun to pull the plants back through the holes & then devour the roots leaving the foliage floating around so that was the end of that. Strange because both of the ponds that the plant is in are full of Goldfish & they don't mess with it at all. In the past my fish have destroyed Cabomba & Pennywort too! John*<o)))< * On 26 October 2012 15:45, Mary Carpenter <mcrupe@...-tech.edu> wrote: > ** > > > I've discovered something I found interesting. Water lettuce, which dies > during the winter and is commonly used in my area as a pond plant, thrives > in an indoor aquarium. I have several and the fish seem to love the roots. > The plants are even sending off little shoots and starting new plants. I > like it. However, at least during the winter, it will not (based on my > experience) live in an unheated tank. I tried it in my betta bowls and the > plant died. > > But I thought floating aquarium water lettuce was worth sharing.. :) > > > Reply via web post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdW5vbjBuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0MTkxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM1MTI2MjkzMA--?act=reply&messageNum=54191> Reply > to sender <mcrupe@...-tech.edu?subject=Re%3A%20Aquaria%20Plants> Reply > to group <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Aquaria%20Plants> Start > a New Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcm12aTd1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM1MTI2MjkzMA--> Messages > in this topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54191;_ylc=X3oDMTM2M3ZrcGtlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0MTkxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM1MTI2MjkzMAR0cGNJZAM1NDE5MQ-->(1) > Recent Activity: > > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYXB1bjc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNTEyNjI5MzA-?o=6> > 7 > - New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbjg4bWE2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzNTEyNjI5MzA-> > 4 > > Visit Your Group<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcnVlYzNoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM1MTI2MjkzMA--> > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54193	From: Ava	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Fin Rot treatments

I've come to the conclusion that my betta has fin rot. The tips of his fins are white with some pink/red streaks. Is it easier to treat with Melafix (which I already have), or aquarium salt? I have an African Dwarf Frog in the tank as well, should I quarantine? Also, how do I "remove the active carbon" from my filter? I always rinse it under water before I put a new one in... Is that it? Or do I need to do something else? I don't want the medication to be ineffective because of my filter. :/ Thanks, -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54194	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants

I tried that, but my monster pleco ate all of it before winter was over, I might try it in the 30 gallon with the baby turtle; already have some azolla and other small floaters in there and he doesnt seem interested. Enid ________________________________ From: Mary Carpenter <mcrupe@...-tech.edu> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:45 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Aquaria Plants   I've discovered something I found interesting. Water lettuce, which dies during the winter and is commonly used in my area as a pond plant, thrives in an indoor aquarium. I have several and the fish seem to love the roots. The plants are even sending off little shoots and starting new plants. I like it. However, at least during the winter, it will not (based on my experience) live in an unheated tank. I tried it in my betta bowls and the plant died. But I thought floating aquarium water lettuce was worth sharing.. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54195	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

Ava, What are your water parameters -- in numbers? Before treating, you not only need to know the cause, but you need to eliminate the cause. You also need to have a correct diagnosis before treating, to ensure you use the correct medication. If this is fin rot, your Melafix won't address it, nor will just salt do very much for it. As you mention "red streaks" in the fins though, this sounds very much like Hemhorragic Septicemia (blood poisoning) primarily caused by excessive ammonia and ultimately resulting either in an internal bacterial infection or viral infection. For this, you'll need a good internally-absorbed gram-negative antibiotic such as Kanamycin or Minocycline (Maracyn II), to treat against such a bacterial infection (hoping it's not the virus). Even for Fin Rot, you would need a medication such as Furan 2; Melafix just won't cut it. Add medication only after doing a PWC (and after first testing for you water parameters). You don't state here what kind of a filter you have, but if you have an HOB filter, just remove the filter medium cartridge. Never rinse your filter under tap water as it will kill your nitrifying bacteria -- even if by "filter" you mean only the actual filter case itself and not the filter media. Yes, it's best to isolate the fish in this case, when medicating. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54196	From: Nancy L	Date: 10/27/2012
Subject: Re: Aquaria Plants

Try frozen peas in the goldfish tank. They love them. In the freshwater tank you can grow: pothos and a few more houseplants but right now can't think. Will post it when I remember. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Carpenter" <mcrupe@...> wrote: > > I've discovered something I found interesting. Water lettuce, which dies during the winter and is commonly used in my area as a pond plant, thrives in an indoor aquarium. I have several and the fish seem to love the roots. The plants are even sending off little shoots and starting new plants. I like it. However, at least during the winter, it will not (based on my experience) live in an unheated tank. I tried it in my betta bowls and the plant died. > > But I thought floating aquarium water lettuce was worth sharing.. :) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54197	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 10/28/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

I'm with Ray on this in that people are quick to run to the pet store and buy some random anti-biotic or other "treatment" that claims to treat a plethora of problems. Most of them don't do a lot and usually they are the wrong treatment since most people have no idea what they are treating. So usually my first question is always about your water conditions and water change schedule, both amount and frequency. Many aquarium fish species are rather hardy and often it is deteriorating conditions more than anything else that causes problems and often simply getting on a good water change schedule right away can often do a world of good for many problem, especially as Ray mentioned, if the problems are the result of such things as ammonia poisoning/burns, excessively and perpetually high nitrates, water with a crashed pH below the range of your test kit, and that sort of thing.  So before starting a regiment of medication-soup in your tank have you measured any water parameters like pH, ammonia, hardness, etc. And more important, if you normally use your tap water for water changes how do the tank water parameters compare to your tap water? In other words, if your tap water is normally 7.4 in pH and close to zero nitrates but your tank measures below 6.0 and your nitrates are 50+, then clearly the tank water is old and hasn't been changed in some time or you change too little when you do. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54198	From: Noura	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: (no subject)

Hello, Is it safe to put a piece of ceramic in a fish tank? I want to attach a small square piece to my DIY sponge filter to hold it down. The ceramic is the type used in kitchens and bathrooms ( rough and red on one face, and has the ceramic on the other face). I also have some flat brick pieces that I can use if the ceramic isn't safe. But they are broken, not beautifully cut as the ceramic. Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54199	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re:

Hi Noura, I think that would be fine as long as the piece has no sharp/protruding edges. Generally the material used for tiles is inert & very similar to regular clay plant pots which are used widely in both tanks & ponds. I have used them with my fish for years. John*<o)))< * On 1 November 2012 16:23, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, > > Is it safe to put a piece of ceramic in a fish tank? I want to attach a > small square piece to my DIY sponge filter to hold it down. > > The ceramic is the type used in kitchens and bathrooms ( rough and red on > one face, and has the ceramic on the other face). > > I also have some flat brick pieces that I can use if the ceramic isn't > safe. > But they are broken, not beautifully cut as the ceramic. > > Thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54200	From: Ava	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

I don't think it's an ammonia issue-- my ammonia is at about .10, pH is about 7.4. I picked up some stuff to lower pH but I don't want to raise ammonia by doing so, so I'm only doing a little at a time. I'm being very picky about tank cleanliness, using my gravel vacuum every other day to get old food out. I lowered the temperature in the tank to about 75F because I heard that bacteria grows faster in warmer temps. Light is always off except for feeding time. I can't tell you exactly how many gallons I'm replacing with water changes, as I'm using a children's beach bucket, but it only lowers about an inch of water in my 10gal tank. I use Prime to lower ammonia/chlorine/metals/etc in water. I do water changes about once a week... should I increase that? Whatever I'm doing is at least improving his situation, as he's more active and eating a tad more. Not sure if it's a FIX though. -Ava --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > I've come to the conclusion that my betta has fin rot. The tips of his fins are white with some pink/red streaks. Is it easier to treat with Melafix (which I already have), or aquarium salt? I have an African Dwarf Frog in the tank as well, should I quarantine? Also, how do I "remove the active carbon" from my filter? I always rinse it under water before I put a new one in... Is that it? Or do I need to do something else? I don't want the medication to be ineffective because of my filter. :/ > Thanks, > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54201	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/1/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

Hi Ava, You should be very careful about using products that artificially alter the pH because they can have a cumulative effect. That is the products can have very little initial effect & then suddenly bang-your pH jumps wildly down & then you have the nightmare of stabilising it by using another product to try to raise your pH back up. My limited understanding on this is that for the majority of fish a stable pH is far better than the 'textbook' figure for that particular species even if it is a little different. If your ammonia is still showing 0.1 then it sounds as if the cycling has not fully completed but doing slightly larger & more frequent water changes than you are at present will only serve to dilute the ammonia further & so is fine. Can you tell us what your nitrite & nitrate readings are please? John*<o)))<* On 30 October 2012 03:03, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > I don't think it's an ammonia issue-- my ammonia is at about .10, pH is > about 7.4. I picked up some stuff to lower pH but I don't want to raise > ammonia by doing so, so I'm only doing a little at a time. I'm being very > picky about tank cleanliness, using my gravel vacuum every other day to get > old food out. I lowered the temperature in the tank to about 75F because I > heard that bacteria grows faster in warmer temps. Light is always off > except for feeding time. I can't tell you exactly how many gallons I'm > replacing with water changes, as I'm using a children's beach bucket, but > it only lowers about an inch of water in my 10gal tank. I use Prime to > lower ammonia/chlorine/metals/etc in water. I do water changes about once a > week... should I increase that? Whatever I'm doing is at least improving > his situation, as he's more active and eating a tad more. Not sure if it's > a FIX though. > -Ava > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > > > I've come to the conclusion that my betta has fin rot. The tips of his > fins are white with some pink/red streaks. Is it easier to treat with > Melafix (which I already have), or aquarium salt? I have an African Dwarf > Frog in the tank as well, should I quarantine? Also, how do I "remove the > active carbon" from my filter? I always rinse it under water before I put a > new one in... Is that it? Or do I need to do something else? I don't want > the medication to be ineffective because of my filter. :/ > > Thanks, > > -Ava > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54202	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

Posted by: "Ava" sylerwin91 > I don't think it's an ammonia issue-- my ammonia > is at about .10, pH is about 7.4. I picked up some > stuff to lower pH but I don't want to raise ammonia > by doing so, so I'm only doing a little at a time. > I'm being very picky about tank cleanliness, using > my gravel vacuum every other day to get old food out. Ok two things worry me about your post. First, even 0.1ppm of ammonia can be harmful and that you are even measuring ammonia means the tank is either not cycled or there is something else going on. The second thing is you comment that you vacuum to get old food out. That you can even have old food laying around is a sure cause of elevated ammonia levels and you may be over feeding. You should feed what your animals can eat at that time. If they eat a bunch and then start to ignore the rest of the food, then you have added too much. So again, I am sticking to your problem is probably more related to either water conditions or a still uncycled tank. Do not buy any sort of medications. If anything those might make the situation worse if they disturb you biofiltering of the tank.   Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54203	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Fin Rot treatments

Sorry if I may have missed something, but why on Earth would you want to alter a pH of 7.4 for a betta? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > I don't think it's an ammonia issue-- my ammonia is at about .10, pH is about 7.4. I picked up some stuff to lower pH but I don't want to raise ammonia by doing so, so I'm only doing a little at a time. I'm being very picky about tank cleanliness, using my gravel vacuum every other day to get old food out. I lowered the temperature in the tank to about 75F because I heard that bacteria grows faster in warmer temps. Light is always off except for feeding time. I can't tell you exactly how many gallons I'm replacing with water changes, as I'm using a children's beach bucket, but it only lowers about an inch of water in my 10gal tank. I use Prime to lower ammonia/chlorine/metals/etc in water. I do water changes about once a week... should I increase that? Whatever I'm doing is at least improving his situation, as he's more active and eating a tad more. Not sure if it's a FIX though. > -Ava > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > I've come to the conclusion that my betta has fin rot. The tips of his fins are white with some pink/red streaks. Is it easier to treat with Melafix (which I already have), or aquarium salt? I have an African Dwarf Frog in the tank as well, should I quarantine? Also, how do I "remove the active carbon" from my filter? I always rinse it under water before I put a new one in... Is that it? Or do I need to do something else? I don't want the medication to be ineffective because of my filter. :/ > > Thanks, > > -Ava > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54204	From: Noura	Date: 11/2/2012
Subject: Re: Ceramic

O.K! Thanks! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54205	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2012, 12:

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Sunday November 4, 2012 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2012  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54206	From: Aaron	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Happy TEN Year Anniversary!

Group Information Members: 2707 Category: Fish Founded: Nov 4, 2002 A Very Special Thanks to All the Moderators that have Helped Keep the Group Going All these Years! Aaron R. Martin, cmt

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54207	From: Mary Carpenter	Date: 11/3/2012
Subject: Aquaria Plants

I'm wondering if I can grow rice in my aquarium? Either the big heated tank or the small betta tanks. I'm having a hard time with plants in the big tank and because of it not even the guppies will spawn. Even if the rice ends up not yielding anything. The betta enclosures are only a few inches deep, and that might be good enough. Eventually I could custom order a tank several feet long and only 16 to 20 inches deep. Ask my genius husband to attach it to a wall properly, where it would get some sun light, and thin it out only enough to keep fish comfortable. If it works the way I hope, it would be ideal for beta breeding. It would offer enough cover to hide in that males may be able to happily avoid each other.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54208	From: parkpac@earthlink.net	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Moving an 8 inch Pleco

Hi Ray and group, Hope that your power has finally returned.What a nightmare you guys are going thru. I want to move my Pleco from one tank to another. Tanks do not have the same pH. Should I go ahead and acclimate him just like I do with my other fish? Best to catch him in a net or try to coax him into a jar? Thanks, Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54209	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Moving an 8 inch Pleco

Hi Steve, Definitely avoid the net-a large, rigid container is far better to move Plecos because they can easily get tangled in the weave of a net which could injure him, damage your net or both. John*<o)))<* On 4 November 2012 05:39, <parkpac@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray and group, > > Hope that your power has finally returned.What a nightmare you guys are > going thru. > > I want to move my Pleco from one tank to another. Tanks do not have the > same pH. Should I go ahead and acclimate him just like I do with my other > fish? > > Best to catch him in a net or try to coax him into a jar? > > Thanks, Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54210	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Everyone, Me & my fish are struggling just now, it would seem like I am having a complete tank meltdown & my poor fish are going through hell. I have 4 large Goldfish all between 6 & 8 inches long, their approximate ages range from 8-10 years. They were all rescues from various bad starts in life & I have had them since 2005. During this time I have upgraded from a 15 gallon to a 100 [UK] gallon system & even this is nowhere near big enough to cope with their bio load. For the last 3 years I have been struggling with high NO3, it has hardly been below 40 despite my efforts in doing sometimes 50% daily water changes. They have all been chronically ill with various things & I seem to have been constantly dosing my tank with salt, Epsom Salts or medicating various fish for goodness knows what. A few years ago they were happy & reasonably healthy individuals who would greet me & be constantly playing & larking around as Goldfish do. In desperation I took some great advice from Dawn early this year with regard to my general housing & management of the tank & this all went well but as she told me the underlying trend was always going to be downhill for a number of reasons, not least because the system I have is way too small to cope with dirty Goldfish so this is not entirely unexpected but nevertheless it is so heartbreaking to see my friends suffering so. Until just a couple of weeks ago they would still rouse themselves to greet me as I walked into the room & when i drew the curtains in the morning they would all be begging for their breakfast. The welcoming stopped some time ago but this morning was the first time they didn't beg for breakfast-they just sat in the tunnel & have shown no interest in anything. It all adds up to them simply waiting to die & they know it-I know it & it is killing me because I have neither the means or the knowledge to do any more. Since I have had these fish I have spent many thousands of ponds & probably the same amount of hours friutlessly searching for a solution but there really is none left except for euthanising my beloved pets so they don't have to suffer degenerating any farther. They a [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54211	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Everyone, Me & my fish are struggling just now, it would seem like I am having a complete tank meltdown & my poor fish are going through hell. I have 4 large Goldfish all between 6 & 8 inches long, their approximate ages range from 8-10 years, I lost one around this time last year. They were all rescues from various bad starts in life & I have had them since 2005. During this time I have upgraded from a 15 gallon to a 100 [UK] gallon system & even this is nowhere near big enough to cope with their bio load. For the last 3 years I have been struggling with high NO3, it has hardly been below 40 despite my efforts in doing sometimes 50% daily water changes. They have all been chronically ill with various things & I seem to have been constantly dosing my tank with salt, Epsom Salts, Medi Gold, Kanamycin or medicating various fish for goodness knows what else. A few years ago they were happy & reasonably healthy individuals who would greet me & be constantly playing & larking around as Goldfish do. In desperation I took some great advice from Dawn early this year with regard to my general housing & management of the tank & this all went well but as she told me the underlying trend was always going to be downhill for a number of reasons, not least because the system I have is way too small to cope with dirty Goldfish so this is not entirely unexpected but nevertheless it is so heartbreaking to see my friends suffering so. Until just a couple of weeks ago they would still rouse themselves to greet me as I walked into the room & when I drew the curtains in the morning they would all be begging for their breakfast. The welcoming stopped some time ago but this morning was the first time they didn't beg for breakfast-they just sat in the tunnel & have shown no interest in anything. It all adds up to them simply waiting to die & they know it-I know it & it is killing me because I have neither the means or the knowledge to do any more. Since I have had these fish I have spent many thousands of ponds & probably the same amount of hours fruitlessly searching for a solution but there really is none left except for euthanising my beloved pets so they don't have to suffer degenerating any farther. Polyfilters, Purapds & carbon are all in use but are really useless in stemming the relentless NO3 that I think is the underlying cause of all my troubles & it's like trying to sink a battleship with a pea shooter. They are all suffering from variously bacterial infections, lumps, badly congested blood vessels in their tails, fin rot together with prolonged & increasing bouts of flicking, flashing & fitting. They sometimes do themselves damage by this fitting. My latest efforts to stem this awful situation has been to use increasing amounts of RO water when I do a partial change but this seems to be having almost no effect on the NO3 although the test is taking noticeably longer to turn dark red then it used to but I am very concerned that the amount of RO water I'm now using is adversely affecting what little defences they still have & the pH appears to be lowering from a constant 8 to around 7.5. I thought fish keeping was all about fun & relaxation. All it has been for me is a stressful, expensive & time consuming journey just to watch 5 innocent & trusting little creatures die. I am going to post some pictures once they have been moderated so you can see what I am up against. If anyone can suggest anything I would be more than happy to give it a try but please let this show you once & for all that streamlined Goldfish do not belong in tanks unless you have unlimited space & are a very patient millionaire. John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54212	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/4/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

________________________________ I totally agree. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I had four six to eight inch goldfish in a 55 gallon. I knew I couldn't take care off them any longer. With a heavy heart, I put a free add in the paper making sure to tell anyone who got the fish that they needed a pond or huge tank. Luckily for me, the first day my ad was in the paper someone responded. She was an older lady with a pond that already had goldfish in it. She told me that people would just ask if she wanted their fish and she'd take them. I was so happy. I couldn't have wished for a better home for my fish. The very same fish I'd raised since they were half an inch long were now in their dream home. It was fun taking care of the goldfish but now I'm moving on to something that's suppose to be harder to take care of than goldfish but I'm sure it's really not; Tropical fish. I just couldn't handle the twice a week 50% water changes. The tank would get so dirty not even daily water changes could clear it up. Sometimes it would get so bad I could hardly see the fish in the tank. During those days, my fish would lay on the rocks on the bottom of the tank and barely move. Yes, it was hard to see my fish go but I know they should be happier where they are now. It's a new beginning both for my goldfish and for me. I know have the knowledge and first hand experience with goldfish not every has and I find it my calling to pass on my story and help others realize the difficulties of the goldfish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54213	From: Amber	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Rainbow shark not doing well.

Hi! I just got a Rainbow Shark to add to my tank. It's a 55 gallon that had only four platies in it. So, I got four more platies and the shark yesterday. During the trip home, the shark was just lying on the bottom of the bag not really moving. When I got it home and put it in the tank, it floated straight to the bottom of the tank and that's where it stayed. It's sort of gasping for air as well. I'm a little worried. Does any know why it's acting like this? Could it be stress or shock from the move? He was lively at the store...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54214	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/5/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi John, I am so sorry to read about your struggles! It is great you put so much effort in everything and tried your best to let them have a suitable environment and good care. It is sad that it still does not seem to work out... As you said it just seems goldfish are apparently not good candidates for home aquariums. I learned a lot from your messages and experiences and I am sure others too. So in any case you gave your goldfish a good chance and I hope you might find somebody with a pond or similar who can take them soon... I also had to realize how much work fish can be and seldom experienced it as a relaxing hobby to be honest. In my case everything is much simpler (having only smaller tropical fish) but my fish just grew and so I always seem a water change behind to be able to relax and I constantly worry if everything is all right. I had the impression that often the people who are most relaxed about fish keeping either do not care a lot or just lack a lot of knowledge and do not realize they are heading to major problems. Exception of course for those who really know/knew what they are doing and did everything right ;) It does not seem a simple hobby to me and it can go easily wrong. Thanks for the update and please keep us posted! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Me & my fish are struggling just now, it would seem like I am having a > complete tank meltdown & my poor fish are going through hell. I have 4 > large Goldfish all between 6 & 8 inches long, their approximate ages range > from 8-10 years, I lost one around this time last year. They were all > rescues from various bad starts in life & I have had them since 2005. > During this time I have upgraded from a 15 gallon to a 100 [UK] gallon > system & even this is nowhere near big enough to cope with their bio load. > For the last 3 years I have been struggling with high NO3, it has hardly > been below 40 despite my efforts in doing sometimes 50% daily water > changes. They have all been chronically ill with various things & I seem to > have been constantly dosing my tank with salt, Epsom Salts, Medi Gold, > Kanamycin or medicating various fish for goodness knows what else. > > A few years ago they were happy & reasonably healthy individuals who would > greet me & be constantly playing & larking around as Goldfish do. In > desperation I took some great advice from Dawn early this year with regard > to my general housing & management of the tank & this all went well but as > she told me the underlying trend was always going to be downhill for a > number of reasons, not least because the system I have is way too small to > cope with dirty Goldfish so this is not entirely unexpected but > nevertheless it is so heartbreaking to see my friends suffering so. Until > just a couple of weeks ago they would still rouse themselves to greet me as > I walked into the room & when I drew the curtains in the morning they would > all be begging for their breakfast. > > The welcoming stopped some time ago but this morning was the first time > they didn't beg for breakfast-they just sat in the tunnel & have shown no > interest in anything. It all adds up to them simply waiting to die & they > know it-I know it & it is killing me because I have neither the means or > the knowledge to do any more. Since I have had these fish I have spent > many thousands of ponds & probably the same amount of hours fruitlessly > searching for a solution but there really is none left except for > euthanising my beloved pets so they don't have to suffer degenerating any > farther. Polyfilters, Purapds & carbon are all in use but are really > useless in stemming the relentless NO3 that I think is the underlying cause > of all my troubles & it's like trying to sink a battleship with a pea > shooter. > > They are all suffering from variously bacterial infections, lumps, badly > congested blood vessels in their tails, fin rot together with prolonged & > increasing bouts of flicking, flashing & fitting. They sometimes do > themselves damage by this fitting. My latest efforts to stem this awful > situation has been to use increasing amounts of RO water when I do a > partial change but this seems to be having almost no effect on the NO3 > although the test is taking noticeably longer to turn dark red then it used > to but I am very concerned that the amount of RO water I'm now using is > adversely affecting what little defences they still have & the pH appears > to be lowering from a constant 8 to around 7.5. > > I thought fish keeping was all about fun & relaxation. All it has been for > me is a stressful, expensive & time consuming journey just to watch 5 > innocent & trusting little creatures die. I am going to post some pictures > once they have been moderated so you can see what I am up against. If > anyone can suggest anything I would be more than happy to give it a try but > please let this show you once & for all that streamlined Goldfish do not > belong in tanks unless you have unlimited space & are a very patient > millionaire. > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54215	From: Noura	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Well.. You're right! Good care leads to less relaxation, but to be honest, whenever I perform a PWC I feel refreshed as if my own "waters" were renewed! When I have time and desire, vacuuming the gravel and watching dirt go up that tube is a joy by itself. Anyway, the key to get that joy and relaxation of fish keeping is simple: Fewer bigger tanks, less fish. Just don't overstock your tanks. Yes simple, but how many of can actually stick to it? Your Honor, I confess of being guilty! lol I hope that John finds a new big home for the goldfish before it's too late. I gave up on keeping goldfish 15 years ago and never went back. No regrets. Have a nice day, Noura (with a U) J [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54216	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Rainbow shark not doing well.

This sounds like a stress reaction. Did you make sure you tested your water to be sure that pH was close or the same between yours and that of the store? Did you make sure that the temp between the 2 tanks was close in range (within 1 - 2 degrees)? And did you make sure there was plenty of decor and caves in your tank before adding the shark? Can you describe the acclimation procedure you went through for the shark when you got it home? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > Hi! I just got a Rainbow Shark to add to my tank. It's a 55 gallon that had only four platies in it. So, I got four more platies and the shark yesterday. During the trip home, the shark was just lying on the bottom of the bag not really moving. When I got it home and put it in the tank, it floated straight to the bottom of the tank and that's where it stayed. It's sort of gasping for air as well. I'm a little worried. Does any know why it's acting like this? Could it be stress or shock from the move? He was lively at the store... >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54217	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Nora, The secret to keeping it from becoming a lot of work or struggle is to avoid overstocking aquariums in the first place. I still have 8 tanks running, the smallest is 20 gallons, the largest a pair of 215 gallon tanks... but none of them is overstocked. What little time I have to spend on maintenance is simply an excuse to play with the fish because other than the 10 minutes it takes for me to feed them at night (if I take my time), the only other work involved is about an hour each week doing water changes and/or gravel vacs. When I still had 15 tanks set up last yr, I still didn't spend much more than that amount of time maintaining them, it was just all pleasure and relaxation and the maintenance was easy and never a big deal... and I didn't have fish dying or sick, didn't have medications to deal with, etc. It's all about learning to do it right, the patience to do it right, and the self control to not impulse shop. Oh, and yes... one of those tanks I took down had an adult goldfish in it. That tank was no more difficult to care for than any other because he had a 215 gallon tank to himself because I understood he needed it. Any pet will need some level of care but it doesn't have to be "work" and it doesn't have to be difficult if the person does it right. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > I am so sorry to read about your struggles! It is great you put so much effort in everything and tried your best to let them have a suitable environment and good care. It is sad that it still does not seem to work out... As you said it just seems goldfish are apparently not good candidates for home aquariums. I learned a lot from your messages and experiences and I am sure others too. So in any case you gave your goldfish a good chance and I hope you might find somebody with a pond or similar who can take them soon... > > I also had to realize how much work fish can be and seldom experienced it as a relaxing hobby to be honest. In my case everything is much simpler (having only smaller tropical fish) but my fish just grew and so I always seem a water change behind to be able to relax and I constantly worry if everything is all right. > I had the impression that often the people who are most relaxed about fish keeping either do not care a lot or just lack a lot of knowledge and do not realize they are heading to major problems. Exception of course for those who really know/knew what they are doing and did everything right ;) > It does not seem a simple hobby to me and it can go easily wrong. > > Thanks for the update and please keep us posted! > Nora > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Me & my fish are struggling just now, it would seem like I am having a > > complete tank meltdown & my poor fish are going through hell. I have 4 > > large Goldfish all between 6 & 8 inches long, their approximate ages range > > from 8-10 years, I lost one around this time last year. They were all > > rescues from various bad starts in life & I have had them since 2005. > > During this time I have upgraded from a 15 gallon to a 100 [UK] gallon > > system & even this is nowhere near big enough to cope with their bio load. > > For the last 3 years I have been struggling with high NO3, it has hardly > > been below 40 despite my efforts in doing sometimes 50% daily water > > changes. They have all been chronically ill with various things & I seem to > > have been constantly dosing my tank with salt, Epsom Salts, Medi Gold, > > Kanamycin or medicating various fish for goodness knows what else. > > > > A few years ago they were happy & reasonably healthy individuals who would > > greet me & be constantly playing & larking around as Goldfish do. In > > desperation I took some great advice from Dawn early this year with regard > > to my general housing & management of the tank & this all went well but as > > she told me the underlying trend was always going to be downhill for a > > number of reasons, not least because the system I have is way too small to > > cope with dirty Goldfish so this is not entirely unexpected but > > nevertheless it is so heartbreaking to see my friends suffering so. Until > > just a couple of weeks ago they would still rouse themselves to greet me as > > I walked into the room & when I drew the curtains in the morning they would > > all be begging for their breakfast. > > > > The welcoming stopped some time ago but this morning was the first time > > they didn't beg for breakfast-they just sat in the tunnel & have shown no > > interest in anything. It all adds up to them simply waiting to die & they > > know it-I know it & it is killing me because I have neither the means or > > the knowledge to do any more. Since I have had these fish I have spent > > many thousands of ponds & probably the same amount of hours fruitlessly > > searching for a solution but there really is none left except for > > euthanising my beloved pets so they don't have to suffer degenerating any > > farther. Polyfilters, Purapds & carbon are all in use but are really > > useless in stemming the relentless NO3 that I think is the underlying cause > > of all my troubles & it's like trying to sink a battleship with a pea > > shooter. > > > > They are all suffering from variously bacterial infections, lumps, badly > > congested blood vessels in their tails, fin rot together with prolonged & > > increasing bouts of flicking, flashing & fitting. They sometimes do > > themselves damage by this fitting. My latest efforts to stem this awful > > situation has been to use increasing amounts of RO water when I do a > > partial change but this seems to be having almost no effect on the NO3 > > although the test is taking noticeably longer to turn dark red then it used > > to but I am very concerned that the amount of RO water I'm now using is > > adversely affecting what little defences they still have & the pH appears > > to be lowering from a constant 8 to around 7.5. > > > > I thought fish keeping was all about fun & relaxation. All it has been for > > me is a stressful, expensive & time consuming journey just to watch 5 > > innocent & trusting little creatures die. I am going to post some pictures > > once they have been moderated so you can see what I am up against. If > > anyone can suggest anything I would be more than happy to give it a try but > > please let this show you once & for all that streamlined Goldfish do not > > belong in tanks unless you have unlimited space & are a very patient > > millionaire. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54218	From: Reba	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Tiny White Dots in Water

My tank has suddenly gotten tiny white dots directly in the water. They look like white specks of dust. It is not Ich and all the fish are OK and all water tests are "safe". At first I did a 20 Gal water change to a 45 gal tank, changed the filter, vacuumed the sudstrate and then put in a clarifier. Nothing changed though. Does anyone know what this is and how to get rid of it?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54219	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tiny White Dots in Water

Hi Reba, What fish do you keep & how long have you had them? Had you done anything different with your tank or maintenence regime immediately before you saw these specks? John*<o)))<* On 6 November 2012 13:33, Reba <reba_curtis@...> wrote: > ** > > > My tank has suddenly gotten tiny white dots directly in the water. They > look like white specks of dust. It is not Ich and all the fish are OK and > all water tests are "safe". > > At first I did a 20 Gal water change to a 45 gal tank, changed the filter, > vacuumed the sudstrate and then put in a clarifier. Nothing changed though. > > Does anyone know what this is and how to get rid of it? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54220	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Amber, You have done well with your fish & they will certainly be thanking you for your decision. It must have been so difficult but you did it in the best interests of your pets which shows you love them. John*<o)))<* On 5 November 2012 03:31, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > ________________________________ > > I totally agree. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I had four six to eight > inch goldfish in a 55 gallon. I knew I couldn't take care off them any > longer. With a heavy heart, I put a free add in the paper making sure to > tell anyone who got the fish that they needed a pond or huge tank. Luckily > for me, the first day my ad was in the paper someone responded. She was an > older lady with a pond that already had goldfish in it. She told me that > people would just ask if she wanted their fish and she'd take them. I was > so happy. I couldn't have wished for a better home for my fish. The very > same fish I'd raised since they were half an inch long were now in their > dream home. > > It was fun taking care of the goldfish but now I'm moving on to something > that's suppose to be harder to take care of than goldfish but I'm sure it's > really not; Tropical fish. > > I just couldn't handle the twice a week 50% water changes. The tank would > get so dirty not even daily water changes could clear it up. Sometimes it > would get so bad I could hardly see the fish in the tank. During those > days, my fish would lay on the rocks on the bottom of the tank and barely > move. > > Yes, it was hard to see my fish go but I know they should be happier where > they are now. It's a new beginning both for my goldfish and for me. I know > have the knowledge and first hand experience with goldfish not every has > and I find it my calling to pass on my story and help others realize the > difficulties of the goldfish. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54221	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Noura, Thank you-I don't think I came into this hobby for the same reasons as most do which is by choice. Until the beginning of 2005 I was not at all a pet person but my friend who emigrated brought round a small fish bowl on the morning of her departure & asked me if I would look after them. After several days of looking at those fish I absent minded 'Googled' Goldfish & here we are 8 years down the line withe these 3 fish together with another. Because I came into the hobby 'blind' as it were I made all the pitfalls that the average Goldfish keeper makes-no water test, tiny tanks, overstocking, pitiful water management etc etc. Over the years I have tried to remedy the situation with the help of some very caring & knowledgeable people, Dawn being one of them but by then it was too late & the damage had been done so now I & my poor fish are reaping the fallout of those uninformed years. They were all over a year old before I got them so it is likely that some damage had already occurred in the unfiltered fish bowl but that doesn't make the situation any easier to live with. These creatures are in my care I feel like have let them down because they look to me. Unfortunately I live in an upstairs flat & so I have no garden so the possibility of building them a pond is a non-starter. I do however know several people with good sized & secure well managed ponds but the problem there is that we are now entering Winter here in the UK & it is very cold suddenly-there was a hard frost this morning. With such sharp differences between tank & pond water I feel my fish would not stand the move outside well-especially as they are all considerably weakened at this point anyway I don't think their defences & natural immunity would hold out. On a slightly happier note, I have seen some improvement in their behavior today as they have been far more active-more so than they have been for a couple of weeks-they were chasing the female today & actually eating from my hand again. I will keep you updated with proceedings. John*<o)))<* On 6 November 2012 11:48, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Well.. You're right! Good care leads to less relaxation, but to be honest, > whenever I perform a PWC I feel refreshed as if my own "waters" were > renewed! When I have time and desire, vacuuming the gravel and watching > dirt > go up that tube is a joy by itself. > > Anyway, the key to get that joy and relaxation of fish keeping is simple: > Fewer bigger tanks, less fish. Just don't overstock your tanks. Yes simple, > but how many of can actually stick to it? Your Honor, I confess of being > guilty! lol > > I hope that John finds a new big home for the goldfish before it's too > late. > I gave up on keeping goldfish 15 years ago and never went back. No regrets. > > Have a nice day, > > Noura (with a U) J > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54222	From: Noura	Date: 11/7/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi John, If you could manage an intense maintenance schedule for the next five months, maybe the fish will hold on until Spring when it's warmer and they are able of handling the transition to a reasonably warm pond. Glad to hear they're better today , they felt your sorrow and wanted to cheer you up J Noura SY (I'll make this my signature from now on so you won't confuse me with Nora) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54223	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Updates and a query.

We bought an angel for the new 40g, and the little dear has been in quarantine for a week and a half.... we named the angel "Arc" hee hee. I put a rock from my great great grandparents house that I hadn't used before, in the 40. It is starting to form some rust on a few inches of it; so it probbably has some iron in it. If it spreads to the whole thing, I will wire brush it off and seal it with spar varnish. If it doesn't spread, and I think I can live with it; should I clean it up and seal it anyway? Would some rust on the rock mess up my water? Thanks all. I appreciate this fountain of knowledge. I'll throw some pics of "arc" in my folder. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54224	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/8/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.

Are you sure it is rust and not diatoms? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 5:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Updates and a query. We bought an angel for the new 40g, and the little dear has been in quarantine for a week and a half.... we named the angel "Arc" hee hee. I put a rock from my great great grandparents house that I hadn't used before, in the 40. It is starting to form some rust on a few inches of it; so it probbably has some iron in it. If it spreads to the whole thing, I will wire brush it off and seal it with spar varnish. If it doesn't spread, and I think I can live with it; should I clean it up and seal it anyway? Would some rust on the rock mess up my water? Thanks all. I appreciate this fountain of knowledge. I'll throw some pics of "arc" in my folder. Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54225	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Many thanks Noura, I think the intense schedule you suggest is our only hope now unfortunately. John*<o)))< * On 7 November 2012 21:35, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > If you could manage an intense maintenance schedule for the next five > months, maybe the fish will hold on until Spring when it's warmer and they > are able of handling the transition to a reasonably warm pond. > > Glad to hear they're better today , they felt your sorrow and wanted to > cheer you up J > > Noura SY (I'll make this my signature from now on so you won't confuse me > with Nora) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54226	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/9/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.

I wouldnt think so... i soaked it in straight bleach for a few days before putting it in. i gave it a quick scrub when i did my cleaning today and it cleaned it right up... i could do that every week. Do you think a bit of rust would mess up my water? thanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Are you sure it is rust and not diatoms? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 5:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Updates and a query. > > > > > > We bought an angel for the new 40g, and the little dear has been in > quarantine for a week and a half.... we named the angel "Arc" hee hee. > I put a rock from my great great grandparents house that I hadn't used > before, in the 40. It is starting to form some rust on a few inches of it; > so it probbably has some iron in it. If it spreads to the whole thing, I > will wire brush it off and seal it with spar varnish. If it doesn't spread, > and I think I can live with it; should I clean it up and seal it anyway? > Would some rust on the rock mess up my water? > > Thanks all. > I appreciate this fountain of knowledge. > I'll throw some pics of "arc" in my folder. > > Al. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54227	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.

You are going to get diatoms in most new aquariums it’s not something that exists before the aquarium is started up and can be bleached away in advance. Too much iron could be a problem but not sure it is rust yet. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Updates and a query. I wouldnt think so... i soaked it in straight bleach for a few days before putting it in. i gave it a quick scrub when i did my cleaning today and it cleaned it right up... i could do that every week. Do you think a bit of rust would mess up my water? thanks. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Are you sure it is rust and not diatoms? > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 5:35 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Updates and a query. > > > > > > We bought an angel for the new 40g, and the little dear has been in > quarantine for a week and a half.... we named the angel "Arc" hee hee. > I put a rock from my great great grandparents house that I hadn't used > before, in the 40. It is starting to form some rust on a few inches of it; > so it probbably has some iron in it. If it spreads to the whole thing, I > will wire brush it off and seal it with spar varnish. If it doesn't spread, > and I think I can live with it; should I clean it up and seal it anyway? > Would some rust on the rock mess up my water? > > Thanks all. > I appreciate this fountain of knowledge. > I'll throw some pics of "arc" in my folder. > > Al. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54228	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Updates and a query.

Thanks Donna. I love a good mystery. I see no evidence of the rust discolouration spreading; I'll keep my eyes open. It's not really a new tank; just the glass really. A month ago I changed everything over from the 20 to the new 40, I just needed another 100w heater and more gravel. I still have 3 healthy happy fish from 2 weeks after I set up the original tank 2 years ago; so its gone fairly well. hmmm... if too much iron can be a problem, I'll seal the rock if it spreads, or becomes hard to scrubb off... or the inhabitants don't look well of course... :-)>>> Such an interesting hobby, I'm quite enjoying it; being a fan of reading and learning helps with this endeavour. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > You are going to get diatoms in most new aquariums it's not something that > exists before the aquarium is started up and can be bleached away in > advance. > > > > Too much iron could be a problem but not sure it is rust yet. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Updates and a query. > > > > > > I wouldnt think so... i soaked it in straight bleach for a few days before > putting it in. > i gave it a quick scrub when i did my cleaning today and it cleaned it right > up... i could do that every week. Do you think a bit of rust would mess up > my water? > thanks. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Are you sure it is rust and not diatoms? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 5:35 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Updates and a query. > > > > > > > > > > > > We bought an angel for the new 40g, and the little dear has been in > > quarantine for a week and a half.... we named the angel "Arc" hee hee. > > I put a rock from my great great grandparents house that I hadn't used > > before, in the 40. It is starting to form some rust on a few inches of it; > > so it probbably has some iron in it. If it spreads to the whole thing, I > > will wire brush it off and seal it with spar varnish. If it doesn't > spread, > > and I think I can live with it; should I clean it up and seal it anyway? > > Would some rust on the rock mess up my water? > > > > Thanks all. > > I appreciate this fountain of knowledge. > > I'll throw some pics of "arc" in my folder. > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54229	From: joe t	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hello, Everyone! I have been keeping fish since I was a pre-teen and, except for my initial experience (ignorance) and when I was in the business of breedng so I could sell in my friend's pet shop, I never found keeping my fish a burden. I tell you true, I am 70 now and still enjoy keeping them. Don't misunderstand, I had my moments when I didn't feel like doing a water change just because at that particular time I was too lazy to do it. But it wasn't because it was a big deal. Despite my times of indolence I did not loose fish and they didn't have health problems. Why? Simple. I agree with Dawn. I don't overcrowd my tanks. And I wish I did, but I do not have the expertise of Ray. I simply used common sense. Think about it. You cannot take creatures that, in nature, have plenty of space for moving around and are having an almost constant change of water (in most places, anyway) and put them in a "box" (an aquarium of whatever size) even with a good filter that is filtering and moving the SAME WATER over and over again. Yes, it is filtered and it is moving, but it is the SAME water. And to add insult to injury, we overcrowd them. How do you avoid overcrowding? Do your homework. Find out things like how big the fish is going to get, etc. I won't go into that. Many others have done that already. And I have written about this so many times on this group I think everyone got tired of me. LOL. So, in my humble opinion, I will say it once more, the main two keys to easy fishkeeping: 1, do not overcrowd the tank, 2, change water often. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54230	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/10/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Joe, It would appear you have as much expertise as Dawn or I. The common sense you've learned to abide by, picked up in your observations of your fish and of fish in the wild have given you this expertise. There's nothing better one can do for their fish than to change as much water as you can. as often as you can -- and not trying to cram every gallom of water with an inch of fish goes a long way in keeping them healthy. This is not to say that one nedds to make a job out of changing copius amounts of water each day beyond their capacity to do so, but as I said, "as you can." One only needs a system/plan worked out for each week, in keeping in mind the needed maintenance procedures to keep things running smoothly, and to prevent them from becoming work. When keeping fish becomes a chore, that's when the hobbyists starts to get burned out. Never let things reach that point as it will take all the enjoyment out of the hobby. If a member isn't sure how to develop a system, they just need to ask -- we'd be glad to help. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54231	From: Al Keep	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Well said Joe. Homework and dicipline are very big parts, of the puzzle that assemble an aquarist. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hello, Everyone! > > I have been keeping fish since I was a pre-teen and, except for my initial experience (ignorance) and when I was in the business of breedng so I could sell in my friend's pet shop, I never found keeping my fish a burden. I tell you true, I am 70 now and still enjoy keeping them. > > Don't misunderstand, I had my moments when I didn't feel like doing a water change just because at that particular time I was too lazy to do it. But it wasn't because it was a big deal. Despite my times of indolence I did not loose fish and they didn't have health problems. > > Why? Simple. I agree with Dawn. I don't overcrowd my tanks. And I wish I did, but I do not have the expertise of Ray. I simply used common sense. Think about it. You cannot take creatures that, in nature, have plenty of space for moving around and are having an almost constant change of water (in most places, anyway) and put them in a "box" (an aquarium of whatever size) even with a good filter that is filtering and moving the SAME WATER over and over again. Yes, it is filtered and it is moving, but it is the SAME water. And to add insult to injury, we overcrowd them. > > How do you avoid overcrowding? Do your homework. Find out things like how big the fish is going to get, etc. I won't go into that. Many others have done that already. > > And I have written about this so many times on this group I think everyone got tired of me. LOL. > > So, in my humble opinion, I will say it once more, the main two keys to easy fishkeeping: 1, do not overcrowd the tank, 2, change water often. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54232	From: Noura	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hello Ray, I "think" I know what you mean by making a weekly plan. Figure it would include PWC, filter clean up, gravel vacuuming for each tank? Actually, I don't do it that way, but I'm not a great fish keeper too! Lol Anyway, I'd love to see a sample of this "plan" if possible, and maybe modify it to suit my tanks and how much time I'm willing to give them. Thanks, Noura Sy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54233	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Humming Water Pumps

Hi Everyone, Despite my continuing fish problems I do have some good news is that I have finally solved the really irritating water pump humming that has plagued me through my fishkeeping career & especially since I have been using stand-alone pumps in a wet/dry rather than internal or canister filters for the last 4 years. The symptoms were puzzling because it was like a resonance going through the flat, as you walked around you went through various 'troughs & peaks' of hum at different distances from the tank & because it is a soundwave this was most noticeable at night when everything was quiet. It was also worse near to walls because that is where the sound was reflecting back off into the room so it was compunding the problem like ripples hitting the edge of a swimming pool & rebounding back. Not just in the living room where my tank is but all over the flat. I had thought of everything that might possibly be causing this including water temperature, bubbles in the impeller, the RPM of the pair of pumps not being exact & so setting up a sympathetic harmonic-even the distance between my 2 pumps within the pump compartment may have had a bearing? Anyway-yesterday I had a quick flash of inspiration. After 4 years the rubber suckers on my Eheim pumps had gone hard but that in itself was not the only problem because they hummed almost as bad when they were new & supple, the problem is that the bars which the rubber feet attach to are not a snug fit onto the main body casing of the pump but instead they rattle once they are attached. I had placed the pumps on one inch thick slabs of expanded polystyrene sealed within food bags to try to absorb the sound & even this had little effect. I also noted that if I put my ear to the tank it was creating one hell of a row inside too & although fish don't seem to mind noise it cannot be helping to have that din going on 24/7. I didn't have any more spare Eheim suckers but I did have some Fluval one of the same diameter. Unfortunately the Eheim suckers have locating holes whereas the Fluval ones have a small protruding spigot so I pressed the new supple suckers onto the the old hard ones & that gave me 4 small points of contact with the polystyrene slab, I then used black electrical tape around the pump & base so as to give me one solid item-think of a large mechanical object strapped to a shipping pallet but in miniature. Amazingly this worked & although there is still a background hum I would say that I have quietened it by 75% so this is very much a success. Hopefully this will be helpful to others who experience similar troubles, especially since there appears to be almost nothing on the web about this problem & it cannot only be me that has suffered from it? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54234	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Humming Water Pumps

Good work John! The hum is especially annoying for those in the home that are not into the fish. You have just helped contribute to household harmony ;) -Mike -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: TotallyGoldfish <TotallyGoldfish@yahoogroups.com>; AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 2:49 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Humming Water Pumps Hi Everyone, Despite my continuing fish problems I do have some good news is that I have finally solved the really irritating water pump humming that has plagued me through my fishkeeping career & especially since I have been using stand-alone pumps in a wet/dry rather than internal or canister filters for the last 4 years. The symptoms were puzzling because it was like a resonance going through the flat, as you walked around you went through various 'troughs & peaks' of hum at different distances from the tank & because it is a soundwave this was most noticeable at night when everything was quiet. It was also worse near to walls because that is where the sound was reflecting back off into the room so it was compunding the problem like ripples hitting the edge of a swimming pool & rebounding back. Not just in the living room where my tank is but all over the flat. I had thought of everything that might possibly be causing this including water temperature, bubbles in the impeller, the RPM of the pair of pumps not being exact & so setting up a sympathetic harmonic-even the distance between my 2 pumps within the pump compartment may have had a bearing? Anyway-yesterday I had a quick flash of inspiration. After 4 years the rubber suckers on my Eheim pumps had gone hard but that in itself was not the only problem because they hummed almost as bad when they were new & supple, the problem is that the bars which the rubber feet attach to are not a snug fit onto the main body casing of the pump but instead they rattle once they are attached. I had placed the pumps on one inch thick slabs of expanded polystyrene sealed within food bags to try to absorb the sound & even this had little effect. I also noted that if I put my ear to the tank it was creating one hell of a row inside too & although fish don't seem to mind noise it cannot be helping to have that din going on 24/7. I didn't have any more spare Eheim suckers but I did have some Fluval one of the same diameter. Unfortunately the Eheim suckers have locating holes whereas the Fluval ones have a small protruding spigot so I pressed the new supple suckers onto the the old hard ones & that gave me 4 small points of contact with the polystyrene slab, I then used black electrical tape around the pump & base so as to give me one solid item-think of a large mechanical object strapped to a shipping pallet but in miniature. Amazingly this worked & although there is still a background hum I would say that I have quietened it by 75% so this is very much a success. Hopefully this will be helpful to others who experience similar troubles, especially since there appears to be almost nothing on the web about this problem & it cannot only be me that has suffered from it? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54235	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/11/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Nora, Basically, a plan for maintenance is a schedule much as you're suspecting. You need to set an approximate time and date for making your PWC's, and cleaning you gravel and rinsing your filter media when these latter two procedures are due. If you have enough multiple tanks that it would lead to a major chore if you were to attend to all of them at this same period, you'd then need to break these procedures up, doing a certain amount of tanks at one time and ceretain other tanks on other days. To keep track of which tanks were done and which tanks still need to be done, you could make a chart of all your tank on one side of the chart and the days of the week you can set aside for maintaining them across the top, as a monthly calender. Then attend to those you do when they come due, setting aside those times in your plan. When too many tanks are being maintained thatr it would become a chore to make PWC's by hand -- with buckets -- you then need to consider looking into an easier way to do these weekly procedures that would make things easier and faster for you -- loke buying a Python-type of apparatus such as an Aqueon (Pythons has been discontinued from preduction). When even more tanks are added that makes it impractical to use one of these apparati, a water pump then becomes necessary to keep up with your schedule without the procedures impacting too greatly on you available time. Where prudent, the installation of an automatic water changing system may be considered -- and there are several types, some (but not all) even involving drilling the sides and/or bottom of your tanks and installing bulkheads and plumbing. PWC's in amounts your tanks require can then be made either all at one time (or spaced out over the week), or continuous as a constant slow -- even fast drip -- flow, all week every week. Where this is impractical for one reason of another, perhaps financially if it can't be budgeted (drilled holes can cost at least $15 each, if you cant do them yourself), you can obtain two water pumps with hoses; one to pump water in -- with having a reservoir(s) for clean water -- and one for removing water. Water can then be removed from the next tank you're attending to while the previous tank is being refilled. Many tanks can be maintained this way in very short time. Two different pumps -- where a hose from your faucet to refill your tanks becomes impractical for certain reasons -- also serves the purpose of restricting the water pump and hoses meant for water removal only for this purpose, eliminating it from adding water to you tank if it had been used on a diseased (or suspected diseased) tank, where a disease could be spread if this pump and set of hoses were used for both pirposes. In between uses on tanks, if a disease is even suspected, the first couple of feet of the water removal hose can be placed in your sterilization container. Every hobbyist having multiple tanks should have a sterilization container anyway, for their aquarium tools, nets and other equipment. You can use methylene blue (not especially effective on all suspected pathogens, or a liquid bleach solution. etc. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54236	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Just a quick note for this thread and the whole group... Python hoses are not discontinued. I know the man who owns Python Products, just saw him a week ago, and they are up and running smoothly again. There was a temporary stall, but that has been resolved for a while now. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > Basically, a plan for maintenance is a schedule much as you're suspecting. > You need to set an approximate time and date for making your PWC's, and > cleaning you gravel and rinsing your filter media when these latter two > procedures are due. If you have enough multiple tanks that it would lead to a > major chore if you were to attend to all of them at this same period, you'd then > need to break these procedures up, doing a certain amount of tanks at one > time and ceretain other tanks on other days. To keep track of which tanks > were done and which tanks still need to be done, you could make a chart of all > your tank on one side of the chart and the days of the week you can set > aside for maintaining them across the top, as a monthly calender. Then attend > to those you do when they come due, setting aside those times in your plan. > > When too many tanks are being maintained thatr it would become a chore to > make PWC's by hand -- with buckets -- you then need to consider looking into > an easier way to do these weekly procedures that would make things easier > and faster for you -- loke buying a Python-type of apparatus such as an Aqueon > (Pythons has been discontinued from preduction). > > When even more tanks are added that makes it impractical to use one of > these apparati, a water pump then becomes necessary to keep up with your > schedule without the procedures impacting too greatly on you available time. Where > prudent, the installation of an automatic water changing system may be > considered -- and there are several types, some (but not all) even involving > drilling the sides and/or bottom of your tanks and installing bulkheads and > plumbing. PWC's in amounts your tanks require can then be made either all at > one time (or spaced out over the week), or continuous as a constant slow -- > even fast drip -- flow, all week every week. > > Where this is impractical for one reason of another, perhaps financially if > it can't be budgeted (drilled holes can cost at least $15 each, if you cant > do them yourself), you can obtain two water pumps with hoses; one to pump > water in -- with having a reservoir(s) for clean water -- and one for > removing water. Water can then be removed from the next tank you're attending to > while the previous tank is being refilled. Many tanks can be maintained this > way in very short time. > > Two different pumps -- where a hose from your faucet to refill your tanks > becomes impractical for certain reasons -- also serves the purpose of > restricting the water pump and hoses meant for water removal only for this purpose, > eliminating it from adding water to you tank if it had been used on a > diseased (or suspected diseased) tank, where a disease could be spread if this > pump and set of hoses were used for both pirposes. In between uses on tanks, > if a disease is even suspected, the first couple of feet of the water > removal hose can be placed in your sterilization container. Every hobbyist having > multiple tanks should have a sterilization container anyway, for their > aquarium tools, nets and other equipment. You can use methylene blue (not > especially effective on all suspected pathogens, or a liquid bleach solution. etc. > > Ray > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54237	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/12/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Just to backtrack a little I have had what might be a breakthrough in my search for solutions to my ailing tank. This morning I noticed the first compartment in my wet/dry was cloudy as if the had milk spilled into it-the one with the filter socks-so I immediately sorted it out. Although I check all my systems & equipment regularly this had escaped my attention for a couple of weeks & there was some green/grey algae on the plastic tops of the filter socks & also on the top of the compartment-something I have never seen before. Both the filter sock compartment & the larger media compartment have a layer of silt on the bottom from time to time between cleans but while that in the main compartment has little or no odour-perhaps a slight 'pondy' smell the stuff coming out of my filter sock compartment this morning had a terrible smell like rotting eggs-something it has never had before.. Once I had emptied, cleaned & refilled the compartment I set in 2 clean filter socks loaded with new carbon & fired the system back up. Within minutes my poorly fish who have spent the best part of the last 2 weeks hiding & bottom sitting suddenly started to have some interest in life again & were active & playful. They have been so all day now & even now in the half light of the blue LEDs I can see them all swimming around which is very nice & something I didn't think I'd see again. I don't consider my self to be out of the woods yet by any means but this is certainly a glimmer of hope, I would add that I have had extra media in the filter sock compartment but I wonder if this was having a detrimental effect rather than offering additional filtration? I've now removed it all so all that is on the filter sock compartment now is the filter socks. Can anyone suggest what might have been going on here? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54238	From: Noura	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)

Thanks for explaining, Ray. It is ideal, but there are a lot of days when I don't feel like working for fish or cleaning tanks. However, the idea is really good, and I think I'm going to draw such table to mark the dates of the performed fish tasks. Meaning, my table will be for the already done tasks, not for the needed ones. This way I'll will know when my last filter cleanup was performed and I'll know that I should clean it again sometime this week for example. It's easy to keep it together when you only have three tanks. I admit that I have never thought of the possibility of pathogen transport through hoses and cleanup equipment. We learn something new everyday! As for changing water equipment, although I only have 3 tanks, I've been using a water pump (power head) for my PWCs for years! I have a bad back and carrying buckets is a no no. I also got a python from France a couple of years ago. But I found that it's not practical, it wasn't fast enough, and there was too much wasted clean water to keep the python running and functioning. Plus, it wasn't strong enough for gravel Vacuum. Now I only use water pumps, and if my husband was around and willing to carry buckets, then I can vacuum the gravel J Thanks again, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54239	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)

Hi Noura, Like yourself I have a bad back & so carrying lots of buckets is not an option-especially when you want to change 30 gallons! I don't know if this would work for you but when I do a water change I let gravity do all the work when I take the water out by using a long hose into my bath-because the tank is higher than the bath I simply suck the end & get the water running. Filling back up with new water is easy, I set out some new water the night before in a large tub & let it sit overnight with a small water pump at the bottom to keep it turning over. Then when the right amount of the old water is out I connect the hose to the small pump in the tub & refill the tank. The whole process takes less than an hour with no effort except to change over to the pump half way through. I also use a gravel vac while the hose is taking out the old water. John*<o)))< * On 13 November 2012 21:31, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks for explaining, Ray. It is ideal, but there are a lot of days when I > don't feel like working for fish or cleaning tanks. > > However, the idea is really good, and I think I'm going to draw such table > to mark the dates of the performed fish tasks. Meaning, my table will be > for > the already done tasks, not for the needed ones. This way I'll will know > when my last filter cleanup was performed and I'll know that I should clean > it again sometime this week for example. It's easy to keep it together when > you only have three tanks. > > I admit that I have never thought of the possibility of pathogen transport > through hoses and cleanup equipment. We learn something new everyday! > > As for changing water equipment, although I only have 3 tanks, I've been > using a water pump (power head) for my PWCs for years! I have a bad back > and > carrying buckets is a no no. > I also got a python from France a couple of years ago. But I found that > it's > not practical, it wasn't fast enough, and there was too much wasted clean > water to keep the python running and functioning. Plus, it wasn't strong > enough for gravel Vacuum. Now I only use water pumps, and if my husband was > around and willing to carry buckets, then I can vacuum the gravel J > > Thanks again, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54240	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/13/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)

Hi Noura, With your anticipation of making a record of the fish tasks already performed, this should be as good of a system as any other. There may always be days when we may not feel like playing around with doing fish tasks, or not having the time on particular days to get at them, but at least you'll know that you'll still have some to do and just which needs to be attended to that week. To be pinned down to a certain day of the week to do the tank maintenance is not always convenient, and can lead to it being a chore if there's a time conflict. Knowing that fish maintenance needs to be done however, it might be a good idea to plan for a certain day and time to set aside for it, as it should be regularly performed as part of fish keeping. Before going further, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Dawn for announcing that Python water changing units are again available. While they're not for everybody, they are very handy for those having just one or a very few tanks. They are a water waster though -- there's no way around stating this as a fact of their operation in the way they move other water. Some areas of the country have a more plentiful supply of water resources however, and an extremely low charge for it compared to other areas. Many members here will remember Lenny, another one of our moderators at the time. Living near New Orleans, his water billing was so much lower than mine here in the Northeast. While I meant an outside of the tank water pump, such as what can be found at the major on line suppliers (Drs Foster & Smith, That Fish Place, or Big Al's) -- or at Home Depot or Loews as a utility pump used with garden hoses -- I suppose power heads would do the same thing even if they're not what I had in mind; they'll serve the same purpose even if not as fast.or quite as convenient (provided they're practical in attaching a drain hose to). Provided also, you're sure you have no potential fish pathogens to contend with, even as a possible disease being carried with otherwise healthy fish, it's exponentially much faster to go from tank to tank with a garden hose connected to an external water pump to drain your water down -- following up behind the last tanks to be drawn down with a separate filling (only) hose attached to your water source. If one has a larger set up, such as a fish room or hatchery, this can be simplified by having a PVP system suspended over one's racks of tanks, having quick-connects at frequent intervals to which a short length of garden hose dropper is used between the PVC and the tanks. In this way, it reduces the hosing on the floor only to that used for removing the water. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54241	From: Noura	Date: 11/14/2012
Subject: Re: Maintenance (was: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks)

Hello, John, I tried using gravity alone to empty my tanks, but for reasons of personal "disgust" it didn't suit us. I -myself- don't like to put a hose's tip inside a drain, and my husband wouldn't accept fish "pee" to be splashed on the bathroom floor! So it wasn't accepted by either of us! Ray, the power head came after much thinking and searching in the market after I was diagnosed with a lumbar lesion. We originally searched for an external water pump, manual or electrical, but none was small enough for fish tanks. There may have been suitable ones out there, but we haven't found any ourselves. The power head I use is fast enough and practical. Though, when I want to vacuum my gravel, I need my hubby's muscles to empty the buckets! Fish keeping, although it's well popular here in Syria, hasn't developed into the next level yet, the low income being a main reason for fish shops owners not to import equipment of specialty or quality. Three years ago, most LFS owners here hadn't seen a gravel vacuum until I photographed one from the internet and showed it to them. A year later, they started holding this type of equipment. Chinese medium or low quality stuff are dominant here for everything , starting with fish food, through fish medications, into canister filters and air pumps. I've learned so much from this group, especially from Lenny "AKA gold lenny", Steve, and Ray. And I now have a lot to teach the LFS employees! Sometimes we argue over some information or fish compatibility or maintenance , etc.. and I always go back to this group or other fish forums for the trusted info. One LFS owner never changes water in his 6 ft planted fish tank, only adds the quantities that evaporate. The other one advised me to break down my tanks every 6-8 months for clean-up! I've never broken a tank since I joined "AquaticLife" group, except for changing the whole gravel for a smaller size to suit my corys and Clown loaches. The third LFS owner used to put a layer of polyester all over the undergravel filter, right under gravel!!! I learned not to argue much, as some people may have too much arrogance to accept a customer's advice, here and even in the USA as I hear from you, but I throw my word and follow what I've learned, as my own arrogance doesn't allow me to give a head shake to an awfully wrong advice! Lol Sponge filter don't even exist in my city, brine shrimp eggs ? don't even bother asking for. Baby fish food? Grind your own! Lol HOB filters?? That's another story that I may tell you someday! Have a nice day! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54242	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: algae scrubber safe for acrylic

Would someone kindly repost the link to algae scrubbers for acrylic tanks? Are you certain they won't scratch the acrylic? Thanks, Rose [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54243	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/15/2012
Subject: Re: algae scrubber safe for acrylic

Hi Rose, Maybe not what you are after but I use 2 BiOrb cleaning pads sandwiched in between my regular algae magnet. I've been doing this for over 4 years now & the tank is as bright as the day it was delivered. You should be able to get these just about anywhere locally or online. http://www.biorb.co.uk/products/product-detail/cleaning-pads John*<o)))< * On 15 November 2012 20:26, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...>wrote: > ** > > > Would someone kindly repost the link to algae scrubbers for acrylic tanks? > Are you certain they won't scratch the acrylic? Thanks, Rose > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54244	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Test Kit Expiry Dates

Hi Everyone, API liquid test kits have always had the manufacturing date printed on the bottles as part of the lot number. I recently bought an NO3 kit & alongside the manufacturing date [March 2012] it also has an expiry date of March 2017. Now I always thought that you should never use a kit that is more than a couple of years old because it could decay & give a false reading but here is the manufacturers telling us it is ok to use for 5 years so have we been throwing out useful kits in the past needlessly? After all, a manufacturer would not be telling us to keep their longer than necessary because they would be loosing money by doing so. John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54245	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Test Kit Expiry Dates

It is always best to have a standard around to compare the test results with a known standard. No matter how old the test kit is, there is always a question about its accuracy and worthiness Charles H. }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >API liquid test kits have always had the manufacturing date printed on the >bottles as part of the lot number. I recently bought an NO3 kit & alongside >the manufacturing date [March 2012] it also has an expiry date of March >2017. Now I always thought that you should never use a kit that is more >than a couple of years old because it could decay & give a false reading >but here is the manufacturers telling us it is ok to use for 5 years so >have we been throwing out useful kits in the past needlessly? After all, a >manufacturer would not be telling us to keep their longer than necessary >because they would be loosing money by doing so. > > John*<o)))<* -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54246	From: Amber	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi! I've got a fifty five gallon tank. It currently has eight platies and one Rainbow Shark in it. Today, when I was looking at my fish, I noticed that a platy looked like he was nearly dead. After a while, he moved again. Then, I noticed that him and almost all of my other platies looked like they had ich. Can I treat with salt or would that hurt my Rainbow Shark? If not, what else can I do? I do have two ten gallons that I could move my fish into if I need to. Please, help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54247	From: Laurie	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: SPAM - do not open email with no subject

Sorry my email was hacked.  Do not open an email from me sent early this morning.  If you already have, you may need to change your password.  SORRY!  Happy Thanksgiving :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54248	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/16/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

The amount of salt -- 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons -- needed to treat Ich would not hurt the Red Tail Shark. But salt alone is not enough to eradicate Ich. You need to raise the temperature to at least 86 o and keep it there for at least TWO days AFTER seeing no more signs of Ich. Increase the aeration (or filter flow) at this time if possible. Don't transfer any fish to a separate tank; the whole main tank needs to be treated. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54249	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/17/2012
Subject: Re: Test Kit Expiry Dates

Hi Charles, I know exactly what you mean, a couple of years ago I used 3 different makes of kit-all brand new- on the same sample of water & got 3 different results. They were all reputable makes as well-Tetra, API & Palintest. John*<o)))< * On 16 November 2012 15:33, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > It is always best to have a standard around to > compare the test results with a known standard. > No matter how old the test kit is, there is > always a question about its accuracy and > worthiness > Charles H. > > }}<{{{�> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{�> }}<{{{�> > > >API liquid test kits have always had the manufacturing date printed on the > >bottles as part of the lot number. I recently bought an NO3 kit & > alongside > >the manufacturing date [March 2012] it also has an expiry date of March > >2017. Now I always thought that you should never use a kit that is more > >than a couple of years old because it could decay & give a false reading > >but here is the manufacturers telling us it is ok to use for 5 years so > >have we been throwing out useful kits in the past needlessly? After all, a > >manufacturer would not be telling us to keep their longer than necessary > >because they would be loosing money by doing so. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54250	From: Andy Mills	Date: 11/18/2012
Subject: Apple snail ban

I just found out yesterday that the import of apple snails into european countries has now been banned, meaning that in a few years they'll most likely disappear from these countries altogether. I read an article several months ago about this on the practical fishkeeping website, but now the ban is apparently official. Strange to think you could once go into almost any aquarium shop and see loads of them in the tanks, now you won't see them again. Here's a short article I found confirming this ban. http://fishkeeper.co.uk/site/news/confirmation-of-the-official-ban-on-the-importation-of-apple-snails

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54251	From: Ava	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Frontosas?

Hello, Recently, my black moor hurt his eye. He must have bumped it on the tank decor. :( It started off as a little bit of blood in the bottom of his eye but the area has gotten slightly larger and he seems to be almost completely blind out of that eye. A lot of people told me to leave it be and it'll get better? It also looks like he may have rubbed off a bit of his velvet coat on the same side. Is that common? Also, could adding a lot of live plants over the course of a week or so shock my fish? I already had 3 stalks of bamboo and 2 moss balls, and I've recently added 3 more stalks, as well as some Anubis and Amazon Sword over the past week-ish. It didn't occur to me until this afternoon if that would shock my fish or not? Thanks, Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54252	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/19/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?

Hi Ava, Do you have any other fish in the tank? Can you tell us what your water readings are please? It would be useful for these injuries to add 0.3% aquarium salt to the tank at the approximate level of 1 dessert spoonful per gallon, completely dilute the salt in a small jug of tank water before adding back to the tank. Add the salt over a couple of days rather than all at once so that you don't shock your fish. Keep the salt in the tank for about a week-when you do a water change during this time replace the proportional amount of salt, ie-if you change 10 gallons than add 10 dessert spoons of salt to the new water. I'm not familiar with the plants that you have so you might have to remove some or all of them to a holding tank or bucket during the treatment as they may not cope with the salt-hopefully someone can offer some advice about this. John*<o)))<* On 19 November 2012 23:09, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, > > Recently, my black moor hurt his eye. He must have bumped it on the tank > decor. :( It started off as a little bit of blood in the bottom of his eye > but the area has gotten slightly larger and he seems to be almost > completely blind out of that eye. A lot of people told me to leave it be > and it'll get better? It also looks like he may have rubbed off a bit of > his velvet coat on the same side. Is that common? > > Also, could adding a lot of live plants over the course of a week or so > shock my fish? I already had 3 stalks of bamboo and 2 moss balls, and I've > recently added 3 more stalks, as well as some Anubis and Amazon Sword over > the past week-ish. It didn't occur to me until this afternoon if that would > shock my fish or not? > Thanks, > Ava > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54253	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?

Hi Ava, I must be missing something here as I don't see a connection between "Frontosa" (the Subject line) and Black Moor Goldfish, but maybe this thread was continued from a previous message I haven't seen. By "A lot of people" telling you "to leave it be" (and it will get better), I didn't see anyone here posting anything on this. That said, it's too bad you didn't ask here when this first started. As this condition has advanced to where the fish is almost completely blind in one eye, it appears that some time has gone by since this injury occurred. While salt may prevent further infection, I tend to doubt whether it will reverse this condition (but anything's worth a try). Had this been posted here when it happened, a silver oxide fish medication would have been recommended, followed up by a treatment of Kanamycin, but I fear it's too late for these remedies now. As for Goldfish losing color as they grow, this is a very common thing, but it's usually that some of the "gold" (orange) coloring reverts to the wild dark grey/blackish coloration. Other than this, the depth of color many fish retain is partially dependent upon the substrate and other surroundings the fish sees as a stimulant to keeping and/or developing their depth of color. This ability of the fish's normal sight is temporary and changeable as the environment changes, and will lighten or darken as the surroundings change -- but with an eye that cannot see well, this ability is compromised. This may be why the coloration on the same side is not staying as it was. As for the plants, I've never heard of adding them to a tank resulting in shocking fish. Most aquarium plants will tolerate up to about 2/3 of a teaspoon of salt per gallon. I don't know how large a teaspoon is in comparison to a dessert spoon, but if they're similar, a full teaspoon (or dessert spoon) per gallon may be too much for some plants to tolerate. The Anubias should still do well, but I especially question the moss balls being able to handle it (and doubt it). As the bamboo stalks are not true aquatic plants, I have no idea of their tolerances. While the Amazon Sword plant may handle it, I'd be reluctant to subject it to this. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54254	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Well, yesterday I finally got to buy some Ich medicine. I'd asked my mom to buy some over the weekend so none of my fish would die but she never did. Needless to say, I was devastated when I woke up Monday morning to find three dead fish and another on the brink of death. I cleaned out the dead fish and told my mom that we had to go to the pet store and buy some medicine. I bought some API ich cure stuff and put that in there. Then last night three more fish were dead. I took them out and flushed them down the toilet. When I got home from school today, yet another fish had died. So, now I'm down to two fish and my last platy is now more covered in the ich stuff.... My Rainbow shark's scales look weird, as well. There's a section of his scales where all of them are pale and a little reddish. It doesn't look like ich, though... So, I don't think I'm going to buy more Platies again. They're like mollies, right? They do better in a slightly salty tank because of how easily they can get ich, right? I heard someone say somewhere that Ich is not a killer. That person is wrong. It is a HUGE killer. Seven fish in just two days... I've never lost that many fish at once... And I think I'm going to loose another... :( Oh, can anyone tell me is Cichlids can coexist with Rainbow Sharks? I don't believe my shark will die from this and if it does I will be surprised. I was thinking that a tank of Cichlids would be nice. The tank is 55 gallons and if they can coexist, what type could I get? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54255	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?

Hi Ray, Yes I was a bit confused about the subject heading on this thread but I just put it down to the poster not knowing about starting a new thread or being unaware of forum etiquette. I hope I can clear a couple of points up regarding my comments to Ava-I didn't mean to imply that the salt would reverse the condition that her Black Moor was in but I merely suggested it as a safe means to control any infection or further damage until someone such as yourself could advise a specific treatment for her. With regard to the salt spoonful measurements that I mentioned, I should have checked this internationally first because like gallons the UK & US are different....Here in the UK a teaspoon is about half of a dessert spoon. A dessert spoon is half of a tablespoon so there are approximately 4 teaspoons in 1 tablespoon measure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablespoon Apologies for any confusion caused! John*<o)))<* On 20 November 2012 13:28, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ava, > > I must be missing something here as I don't see a connection between > "Frontosa" (the Subject line) and Black Moor Goldfish, but maybe this > thread was > continued from a previous message I haven't seen. > > By "A lot of people" telling you "to leave it be" (and it will get > better), > I didn't see anyone here posting anything on this. That said, it's too bad > you didn't ask here when this first started. As this condition has > advanced to where the fish is almost completely blind in one eye, it > appears that > some time has gone by since this injury occurred. While salt may prevent > further infection, I tend to doubt whether it will reverse this condition > (but > anything's worth a try). > > Had this been posted here when it happened, a silver oxide fish medication > would have been recommended, followed up by a treatment of Kanamycin, but > I > fear it's too late for these remedies now. > > As for Goldfish losing color as they grow, this is a very common thing, > but > it's usually that some of the "gold" (orange) coloring reverts to the wild > dark grey/blackish coloration. Other than this, the depth of color many > fish retain is partially dependent upon the substrate and other > surroundings > the fish sees as a stimulant to keeping and/or developing their depth of > color. This ability of the fish's normal sight is temporary and changeable > as > the environment changes, and will lighten or darken as the surroundings > change > -- but with an eye that cannot see well, this ability is compromised. This > may be why the coloration on the same side is not staying as it was. > > As for the plants, I've never heard of adding them to a tank resulting in > shocking fish. Most aquarium plants will tolerate up to about 2/3 of a > teaspoon of salt per gallon. I don't know how large a teaspoon is in > comparison > to a dessert spoon, but if they're similar, a full teaspoon (or dessert > spoon) per gallon may be too much for some plants to tolerate. The Anubias > should still do well, but I especially question the moss balls being able > to > handle it (and doubt it). As the bamboo stalks are not true aquatic > plants, I > have no idea of their tolerances. While the Amazon Sword plant may handle > it, I'd be reluctant to subject it to this. > > Ray</HTML> > __ > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54256	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi Amber, I'm sorry to hear that you lost some fish but Ray posted a response to your original message 5 days ago using salt & upping your temperature which would likely have saved them all. The salt would have been cheaper & more importantly less damaging to your bio filter than the medicine you used. Please don't flush dead fish [or anything deceased] down the toilet. This is because-depending on your sewerage arrangements-they may end up in a local water course & if so whatever disease or parasite they are carrying could wipe out whatever livestock it reaches. John*<o)))< * On 21 November 2012 01:15, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > ** > > > Well, yesterday I finally got to buy some Ich medicine. I'd asked my mom > to buy some over the weekend so none of my fish would die but she never > did. Needless to say, I was devastated when I woke up Monday morning to > find three dead fish and another on the brink of death. I cleaned out the > dead fish and told my mom that we had to go to the pet store and buy some > medicine. I bought some API ich cure stuff and put that in there. Then last > night three more fish were dead. I took them out and flushed them down the > toilet. When I got home from school today, yet another fish had died. So, > now I'm down to two fish and my last platy is now more covered in the ich > stuff.... My Rainbow shark's scales look weird, as well. There's a section > of his scales where all of them are pale and a little reddish. It doesn't > look like ich, though... > > So, I don't think I'm going to buy more Platies again. They're like > mollies, right? They do better in a slightly salty tank because of how > easily they can get ich, right? > > I heard someone say somewhere that Ich is not a killer. That person is > wrong. It is a HUGE killer. Seven fish in just two days... I've never lost > that many fish at once... And I think I'm going to loose another... :( > > Oh, can anyone tell me is Cichlids can coexist with Rainbow Sharks? I > don't believe my shark will die from this and if it does I will be > surprised. I was thinking that a tank of Cichlids would be nice. The tank > is 55 gallons and if they can coexist, what type could I get? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54257	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi Amber, so sorry for your fish loss... As far as I learned ich is a parasite that is either present/introduced in the tank or not and just having a little salt alone would not prevent it once it is in the tank. Only the combination with the higher temperature would clear it out of the tank. Ray also mentioned once to me that there is a temperature resistant type of ich that requires event higher temperatures than 86F but is rarer and not as likely to occur. Regarding why salt is good for mollies: from what I read Mollies often live in rivers near salt water and are exposed to more or less salty conditions. So it seems they thrive better in a little salty water. Before you get new fish be aware that ich survives for a certain time in the tank even without fish. In the internet is a lot of information about the time frame of the ich parasite cycle and how long it takes before they die of without having a new host. Good luck with everything! Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > Well, yesterday I finally got to buy some Ich medicine. I'd asked my mom to buy some over the weekend so none of my fish would die but she never did. Needless to say, I was devastated when I woke up Monday morning to find three dead fish and another on the brink of death. I cleaned out the dead fish and told my mom that we had to go to the pet store and buy some medicine. I bought some API ich cure stuff and put that in there. Then last night three more fish were dead. I took them out and flushed them down the toilet. When I got home from school today, yet another fish had died. So, now I'm down to two fish and my last platy is now more covered in the ich stuff.... My Rainbow shark's scales look weird, as well. There's a section of his scales where all of them are pale and a little reddish. It doesn't look like ich, though... > > So, I don't think I'm going to buy more Platies again. They're like mollies, right? They do better in a slightly salty tank because of how easily they can get ich, right? > > I heard someone say somewhere that Ich is not a killer. That person is wrong. It is a HUGE killer. Seven fish in just two days... I've never lost that many fish at once... And I think I'm going to loose another... :( > > Oh, can anyone tell me is Cichlids can coexist with Rainbow Sharks? I don't believe my shark will die from this and if it does I will be surprised. I was thinking that a tank of Cichlids would be nice. The tank is 55 gallons and if they can coexist, what type could I get? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54258	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 11/20/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi John, great the situation improved so much! Your fish are lucky you are so committed in caring for them! I was wondering if your water quality might benefit from introducing more plants. With more plants I mean a LOT more plants to make it a little jungle in the aquarium (as many as fit). It seems the plants help with everything (Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) and it might be worth trying? Would there be a downside to it that I do not realize yet? In our 2 aquariums one is full of plant growth (the other one only a third) so that I sometimes worry if the fish still have enough space. But then if I look closer from a fish point of view they still find a lot of space in between the plants and larger hidden spaces too. So I think it makes it more interesting for them and after every water change the arrangement of leaves is different again. In previous messages a while ago I understood that a tank can be even set up "uncycled" if enough plants are introduced immediately so it seems they have a dramatic effect on the water quality. Though you probably would have to cover the ground with a lot of marbles to prevent the "digging up" if I remember your goldfish from previous messages correctly ;) Just a thought :) Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Just to backtrack a little I have had what might be a breakthrough in my > search for solutions to my ailing tank. This morning I noticed the first > compartment in my wet/dry was cloudy as if the had milk spilled into it-the > one with the filter socks-so I immediately sorted it out. Although I check > all my systems & equipment regularly this had escaped my attention for a > couple of weeks & there was some green/grey algae on the plastic tops of > the filter socks & also on the top of the compartment-something I have > never seen before. > > Both the filter sock compartment & the larger media compartment have a > layer of silt on the bottom from time to time between cleans but while that > in the main compartment has little or no odour-perhaps a slight 'pondy' > smell the stuff coming out of my filter sock compartment this morning had a > terrible smell like rotting eggs-something it has never had before.. > > Once I had emptied, cleaned & refilled the compartment I set in 2 clean > filter socks loaded with new carbon & fired the system back up. Within > minutes my poorly fish who have spent the best part of the last 2 weeks > hiding & bottom sitting suddenly started to have some interest in life > again & were active & playful. They have been so all day now & even now in > the half light of the blue LEDs I can see them all swimming around which is > very nice & something I didn't think I'd see again. > > I don't consider my self to be out of the woods yet by any means but this > is certainly a glimmer of hope, I would add that I have had extra media in > the filter sock compartment but I wonder if this was having a detrimental > effect rather than offering additional filtration? I've now removed it all > so all that is on the filter sock compartment now is the filter socks. Can > anyone suggest what might have been going on here? > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54259	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Why Goldfish Should Not Be In Tanks

Hi Nora, Thank you for your kind words-I am still thinking that the situation I got myself in was my own fault by my becoming almost too close to my tank that I started to lapse & let the filter really get caked up with gunk. The situation is still improving & although the physical damage on my fish is still apparent to a large degree-almost exclusively their tails-the behaviour is so much back to normal now that it is a great relief both to myself & them I think! Now they play around, forage & interact with one another all the time & best of all they greet me again when I walk into the room. Even though I am always in & out of the living room I find time to sit right next to the tank every day-at least for a few minutes-so that my fish & I can 'converse' & they all come milling around every time! Regarding the water quality my nitrate is around 30 & ammonia + nitrite are zero so my problem is organic waste & I am quietly confident that I have found the solution by keeping the filter clean from now on. Now the plants-I think I have plenty already because over the past year they have really taken off. All of my plants are in clay pots-I have 2 lots of Vallis, one is in a rectangular pot & the other in a large circular one. They are thick & lush with leaves around 2 feet long that trail across the surface. I have 4 smaller pots with Anacharis that I am constantly cutting & there are 5 bunches of various types of Hornwort. These plants together with a large acrylic tunnel that the fish love & big piece of arched bogwood make for a very interesting environment with yes-plenty of hidden secluded areas for them to feel safe, they are always swimming around, over & through everything. If I were to add anything else I think I would be overdoing it. To answer your final point about the fish digging up the plants-yes they do! This is why I have all my plants set in pots & around the top I pot marbles or pebbles so that the cannot uproot them. This has a couple of other benefits in that I can move the plants around easily & also I can vacuum the gravel without interfering with the plants. John*<o)))<* On 21 November 2012 06:32, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > great the situation improved so much! Your fish are lucky you are so > committed in caring for them! > I was wondering if your water quality might benefit from introducing more > plants. With more plants I mean a LOT more plants to make it a little > jungle in the aquarium (as many as fit). It seems the plants help with > everything (Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) and it might be worth trying? > Would there be a downside to it that I do not realize yet? > In our 2 aquariums one is full of plant growth (the other one only a > third) so that I sometimes worry if the fish still have enough space. But > then if I look closer from a fish point of view they still find a lot of > space in between the plants and larger hidden spaces too. So I think it > makes it more interesting for them and after every water change the > arrangement of leaves is different again. In previous messages a while ago > I understood that a tank can be even set up "uncycled" if enough plants are > introduced immediately so it seems they have a dramatic effect on the water > quality. > Though you probably would have to cover the ground with a lot of marbles > to prevent the "digging up" if I remember your goldfish from previous > messages correctly ;) > > Just a thought :) > Nora > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54260	From: Dora Smith	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

I don’t know if ich is a killer; it seems like if it could only look ugly it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Sometimes the more important killer is tank conditions that make fish vulnerable to disease. Those conditions will readily kill your fish. How long have you had your tank set up? Someone who relies on his mum to get supplies might not realize that it is necessary to buy a testing kit to check the water quality, and might lose an argument with her about it, and the importance of establishing the biochemistry of the tank, and that sort of thing. It takes months to get the biological capacity going on a new tank before it is ready for a full tank of fish. Also it’s common for newbies to put too many fish in the tank. Dora From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich on platies; need advise! Hi Amber, I'm sorry to hear that you lost some fish but Ray posted a response to your original message 5 days ago using salt & upping your temperature which would likely have saved them all. The salt would have been cheaper & more importantly less damaging to your bio filter than the medicine you used. Please don't flush dead fish [or anything deceased] down the toilet. This is because-depending on your sewerage arrangements-they may end up in a local water course & if so whatever disease or parasite they are carrying could wipe out whatever livestock it reaches. John*<o)))< * On 21 November 2012 01:15, Amber Larr <mailto:love_animals07%40yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Well, yesterday I finally got to buy some Ich medicine. I'd asked my mom > to buy some over the weekend so none of my fish would die but she never > did. Needless to say, I was devastated when I woke up Monday morning to > find three dead fish and another on the brink of death. I cleaned out the > dead fish and told my mom that we had to go to the pet store and buy some > medicine. I bought some API ich cure stuff and put that in there. Then last > night three more fish were dead. I took them out and flushed them down the > toilet. When I got home from school today, yet another fish had died. So, > now I'm down to two fish and my last platy is now more covered in the ich > stuff.... My Rainbow shark's scales look weird, as well. There's a section > of his scales where all of them are pale and a little reddish. It doesn't > look like ich, though... > > So, I don't think I'm going to buy more Platies again. They're like > mollies, right? They do better in a slightly salty tank because of how > easily they can get ich, right? > > I heard someone say somewhere that Ich is not a killer. That person is > wrong. It is a HUGE killer. Seven fish in just two days... I've never lost > that many fish at once... And I think I'm going to loose another... :( > > Oh, can anyone tell me is Cichlids can coexist with Rainbow Sharks? I > don't believe my shark will die from this and if it does I will be > surprised. I was thinking that a tank of Cichlids would be nice. The tank > is 55 gallons and if they can coexist, what type could I get? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54261	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

The tank has been set up just for about a month now. I know it's not cycled yet. I also know you have to have a testing kit and I do have one. I have researched cycling a lot and have followed the steps accordingly. I've also got an Aqua Clear filter to help me with the process. The tank is a 55 gallon and all it had in it was several one inch platies and a three inch Rainbow shark. Before, it had four nearly 8 inch goldfish and 4 platies. Since then I have relocated my goldfish and bought a few more platies and the shark, which would have been my 'center piece' fish. I owned my goldfish for almost five years. Although, it's been less than a year since I first heard of cycling. I've explained to my mom that the tank is likely to stay cleaner once it is cycled. It won't get the new tank syndrome any more. That convinced her. Hey! Also, could someone help me with my Rainbow Shark? I've posted a video on YouTube about him, and I need to have your opinion. There's something strange on his side just under his dorsal fin. Can anyone tell me what is wrong and how to fix it? I'd rather not have every one of my fish die on me... Here's the link:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OpuHJj5hew%c2%a0%c2%a0%c2%a0%c2%a0 Thank you! ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich on platies; need advise! I don’t know if ich is a killer; it seems like if it could only look ugly it wouldn’t be such a big deal. Sometimes the more important killer is tank conditions that make fish vulnerable to disease.  Those conditions will readily kill your fish.  How long have you had your tank set up?  Someone who relies on his mum to get supplies might not realize that it is necessary to buy a testing kit to check the water quality, and might lose an argument with her about it, and the importance of establishing the biochemistry of the tank, and that sort of thing.    It takes months to get the biological capacity going on a new tank before it is ready for a full tank of fish.  Also it’s common for newbies to put too many fish in the tank.    Dora From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ich on platies; need advise!   Hi Amber, I'm sorry to hear that you lost some fish but Ray posted a response to your original message 5 days ago using salt & upping your temperature which would likely have saved them all. The salt would have been cheaper & more importantly less damaging to your bio filter than the medicine you used. Please don't flush dead fish [or anything deceased] down the toilet. This is because-depending on your sewerage arrangements-they may end up in a local water course & if so whatever disease or parasite they are carrying could wipe out whatever livestock it reaches. John*<o)))< * On 21 November 2012 01:15, Amber Larr <mailto:love_animals07%40yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > Well, yesterday I finally got to buy some Ich medicine. I'd asked my mom > to buy some over the weekend so none of my fish would die but she never > did. Needless to say, I was devastated when I woke up Monday morning to > find three dead fish and another on the brink of death. I cleaned out the > dead fish and told my mom that we had to go to the pet store and buy some > medicine. I bought some API ich cure stuff and put that in there. Then last > night three more fish were dead. I took them out and flushed them down the > toilet. When I got home from school today, yet another fish had died. So, > now I'm down to two fish and my last platy is now more covered in the ich > stuff.... My Rainbow shark's scales look weird, as well. There's a section > of his scales where all of them are pale and a little reddish. It doesn't > look like ich, though... > > So, I don't think I'm going to buy more Platies again. They're like > mollies, right? They do better in a slightly salty tank because of how > easily they can get ich, right? > > I heard someone say somewhere that Ich is not a killer. That person is > wrong. It is a HUGE killer. Seven fish in just two days... I've never lost > that many fish at once... And I think I'm going to loose another... :( > > Oh, can anyone tell me is Cichlids can coexist with Rainbow Sharks? I > don't believe my shark will die from this and if it does I will be > surprised. I was thinking that a tank of Cichlids would be nice. The tank > is 55 gallons and if they can coexist, what type could I get? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54262	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?

Hi John, I suspected that's what you may have meant about salt being used for this Black Moor -- it will at least help prevent further infection from setting in. While it may be a little late to reverse this eye condition at this point in time, it might be worth a try to use a good broad-spectrum antibiotic such as Maracyn Plus in hopes it may do something. Maracyn II may be used in place of Kanamycin, and would be readily absorbed internally where the infection lodged. Thanks for clarifying the size of a "dessert" spoon. Yes, now that I see the size of this measure, I see that it is double the size of a teaspoon -- Which no doubt would be detrimental to the Moss Ball (filamentous, Chlorophyta Algae). Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54263	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi John, Amber L., Yes, I too had wondered why the salt and heat treatment described to Amber wasn't given to these fish. It well may have saved every one of these fishes' lives. But with reading only after the fact, about medication used for treating these fish and the many dead fish resulting from this course of action, there was little more to be said when learning of this. Sorry to hear about this much fish loss. While Platies prefer hard, alkaline water, this is where the similarities of their recommended water parameters ends. They are not like Mollies, in that they don't prefer salt -- but if it's realized that a slightly salted tank will help prevent Ick, I have to wonder why the salt and heat treatment wasn't used. BTW, Platies are no more susceptible to getting Ich than most other fishes, and less prone to contracting it than many others. Ich doesn't need to be the killer it sometimes is allowed to be if treated properly. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54264	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/21/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi Amber, That looks like fungus on your Shark & also on the Platy-perhaps Ray can tell you what medication[s] to use. Can you tell us if the spot on your fish has changed colour or appearance since you have had him & if so how long ago did it first appear? Please let us know what your water test results are. John*<o)))<* On 21 November 2012 23:39, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > ** > > > The tank has been set up just for about a month now. I know it's not > cycled yet. I also know you have to have a testing kit and I do have one. I > have researched cycling a lot and have followed the steps accordingly. I've > also got an Aqua Clear filter to help me with the process. > > The tank is a 55 gallon and all it had in it was several one inch platies > and a three inch Rainbow shark. Before, it had four nearly 8 inch goldfish > and 4 platies. Since then I have relocated my goldfish and bought a few > more platies and the shark, which would have been my 'center piece' fish. > > I owned my goldfish for almost five years. Although, it's been less than a > year since I first heard of cycling. > > I've explained to my mom that the tank is likely to stay cleaner once it > is cycled. It won't get the new tank syndrome any more. That convinced her. > > Hey! Also, could someone help me with my Rainbow Shark? I've posted a > video on YouTube about him, and I need to have your opinion. There's > something strange on his side just under his dorsal fin. Can anyone tell me > what is wrong and how to fix it? I'd rather not have every one of my fish > die on me... Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OpuHJj5hew > Thank you! > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54265	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Re: Ich on platies; need advise!

Hi John, Amber, Body Fungus is easily treated with Furan 2. This same medication will effectively treat Ich, since this disease is in the tank. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54266	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Need urgent help!

Hi all, I bought one of these fluval chi fish tanks about 1 year ago from a local pet store and was told that i could put 3 goldfish in it which i did, i put in a goldfish, a blackmoor and a fantail, this was my first time buying fish and had no knowledge whatsoever so i put my faith in the petshop, up until recently everything was fine until i noticed my blackmoor sitting on the bottom of the tank, i immediately called a number i got online from the fish helpline and got some really good information from my friend john who has been brilliant and spent a lot of his time helping my recently, firstly he informed me that my tank was to small (5 gallons) and then i was informed i hadnt been doing enough water changes and over feeding. He also advised me to get the water tested and get regular water changes done which i did. I then went out and bought a tank which i beleive is around 33 gallons and set up the tank, i filled it up and let it filter overnight, then transferred my fish from the small tank the next day, putting in the water from the old tank also, the blackmoor was still bottom sitting so i got myself an api testing kit and all my readings were as follows ph around 7.4, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite zero and nitrate 0 ppm. When i first tested my water in the old tank my ph was low and my nitrate was 160ppm. Yesterday when i came home the blackmoor had died and the fantail died later on, i noticed the water was quite cloudy so ive since done two 50% water changes and tested the water several times and the readings are fine. All i have left now is my goldfish and hes not looking his usual self either. I really dont no what to do now and really dont want to lose my last goldfish does anyone have any suggestions and if so could you let me no ASAP. I have also been salting my water and following the instructions. Kind regards Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54267	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Urgent!!!

I bought 3 goldfish last year and was told a 25 litre tank would be suitable for it. I had very little knowledge of goldfish so put my faith in the pet shop.I bough a goldfish, a blackmoor and a fantail Everything was fine for about a year until last week i noticed my blackmoor sitting on the bottom and looking quite bloated. I thankfully got in touch with john who is a member of this group who started telling me about the basics and things that might be wrong. I got my water tested and was told that my ph was too low and my nitrate was way to high. I started doing more water changes which brought it down and then got myself a new tank which i believe is around 33 uk gallons, I filled the new tank up and left it to filter overnight using brand new filters, then i put my goldfish into the new tank, my blackmoor died yesterday and my fantail died last night and there was also a lot of cloudy water, i went to my local aquatic store and they advised regular water changes and gave me a product called filter aid which is for bacterial bloom, i then done another test today and noticed the ammonia was around 4.00ppm, i then changed 50% which has brought it back down to 0.25ppm, at the minute everything looks ok but im just really worried about my goldfish as he doesnt look his normal self and isnt eating, i understand there has been a lot of change recently and its maybe to much for him but i really dont no what else to do, does anyone have any other ideas?? i have also been salting the water. I think ive put the fish in the new tank possibly too early as it was new filters i used, i put the old tank water in but it probably wasnt enough and i now no it can take up to 6 weeks to cycle, if anyone has any suggestions please let me no. Kind Regards Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54268	From: Ava	Date: 11/22/2012
Subject: Re: Frontosas?

Sorry about the subject line. I originally was going to ask about frontosas and decided to keep it to the issue with my goldies and forgot to change the subject line. Thanks for the advice, guys. -Ava --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi John, > > I suspected that's what you may have meant about salt being used for this > Black Moor -- it will at least help prevent further infection from setting > in. While it may be a little late to reverse this eye condition at this point > in time, it might be worth a try to use a good broad-spectrum antibiotic > such as Maracyn Plus in hopes it may do something. Maracyn II may be used in > place of Kanamycin, and would be readily absorbed internally where the > infection lodged. > > Thanks for clarifying the size of a "dessert" spoon. Yes, now that I see > the size of this measure, I see that it is double the size of a teaspoon -- > Which no doubt would be detrimental to the Moss Ball (filamentous, > Chlorophyta Algae). > > Ray. </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54269	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: Need urgent help!

Hi Joe, Sorry to hear about your loss of these two Goldfish. Also sorry to hear of the poor information that your local petshop gave you. The larger tank you now have is just about big enough for your remaining Goldfish when it gets to full size, if it's similar to the ones that died, but as your differentiating between them -- and BTW, they're all "Goldfish," including the Black Moor and the Fantail -- I'm now assuming that the one you're calling a Goldfish may have a straight tail (and may also be orange/gold in color). Straight tail goldfish can reach up to 14" in length and really need a much bigger tank just for this one fish, but your present one is good for starters and infinitely better than your 5 gallon tank. As you may be starting to see, Goldfish are really pond fish and are not easy to keep in the aquarium. Getting to the problem at hand, in the poor appearance of your remaining goldfish (and possibly too, the reason for the two fish that expired), at this point it's difficult to say exactly what caused their daeaths and why the remaining fish isn't up to par, unless you've taken water parameter tests of the 5 gallon tank's water before discontinuing its use. In this way, we can determine if there was a large enough difference in the pH of the water of the old tank and the pH of the water in the new tank. It there is a large difference, this would at least partially explain the remaining Goldfish's poor appearance as it would have been subjected to pH shock. A large stressor such as this could have been the direct cause, or a contributing factor, in the deaths of the other to fish. While you stated the pH in your new tank in 7.4, and you alsoi mentioned the pH in your old tank was "low," you haven't said what it was. But as you've tested it, you would still probably know what that pH was. If the old tank's pH was very much below pH 7.0, this large difference would have been enough to both compromise the state of the now two dead fish, if they had been weakened -- as appears, from the Black Morr sitting on the bottom of the tank -- and also the present condition of the remaining Goldfish. There's no very much you can do for your remaining Goldfish now, except to hope it will continuw to acclimate to these new conditions without further issue. You haven't said how much salt you're using, and I don't know what "instruction" you mentioned that you're following, but if this is just a token amount of salt, keep using it. Onece it's added of course, it will remain in the water until you remove some when making a partial water change. You'd then need to replace the removed amount of salt, but otherwise, there's no need to add more. I see you've posted two messages, and I'll address your second one forthwith, as I saw at least one other issue I'd like to address. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54270	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/23/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!

Hi again Joe, As you can see by your 4.00 ppm ammonia reading after just one day, the Filter Aid product you added the day before is doing next to nothing (if anything), in starting your nitrifying bacteria you'll need to establish your nitrogen cycle (and I hope your fishstore informed you of this needed cycle) -- or is this product meant for eliminating this bacterial bloom ? If this is the case, you should do nothing to discourage the multiplication of you nitrifying bacteria, even though it's now happening in you water column; eventually, it will populate your filter where it's need to be. I see you're aware that this cycle can take up to 6 weeks to become established. In the meantime, continue to make daily PWC (Partial Water Changes) to keep the ammonia reading preferably not much above 1.00 ppm. As you're maintaining Goldfish, I'm assuming your tank's temperature is around 68 o F (20 0 C) and certainly no more than 72 o F (22 o C). At your pH (of 7.4), a Total Ammonia reading of just 2.00 ppm is toxic -- at 68 o. You're extremely lucky that you didn't lose this remaining fish, and you may have if you hadn't caught this ammonia increase immediately. Be prepared to test your water every day -- and to make PWC's every day -- as your ammonia will continue to rise until you nitrogen cycle becomes established. In another 10 to 12 days, your nitrite (not nitrate) will start rising and you'll need to test for that also, while making PWC's. Undoubtedly, this high ammonia has contributed to your remaining fish's poor appearance, but it should improve in time if you just keep up with your PWC's and keep the ammonia level down. It's not easy to cycle a tank already having fish in it. You can't make too large of PWC's as you'll then remove too much of the "food" (ammonia) that the nitrifying bacteria need to thrive on. There are much better products in the States that contain live nitrifying bacteria 00 such as Dr. Tim's "One and Only," but I don't know if they're available across the pond. The "Filter Aid" you added is not going to do very much in helping this cycle along very quickly. Making water changes and monitoring the parameters is about all you can do right now (unless you can find one of these live cycling products). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54271	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: AMMONIA

I am suddenly getting very high ammonia spikes and am unable to figure it out or control it. The tank details: Oceanic 40 long - set up in 1989 for tropicals. 3 months ago, I gradually phased over to african cichlid tank, replacing the gravel with crushed coral (made pantyhose coils of the gravel and kept them on top on the new substrate for a week (just in case, even though I know most of my bacterial population is in the filters) Have 2 HOB filters: 2-chamber Whisper and 1 chamber Bio-Wheel which was added about 4 months ago (the tank is situated on a pass-thru bar, so no room for a canister). I use Chemipure in one chamber, Fluval ceramics in one chamber, and charcoal packet in the Bio-Wheel (these are new - generic made by Drs. Foster/Smith. All chambers have floss, sponge. Filters are not clogged and floss is rinsed in aquarium water, not tap. I do a PWC/gravel siphon weekly of 25-30% - adding water conditioner to the tank before filling with replacement water - this has been my regimen for years. Had been using Aqueon water conditioner only until recently - started using Prime (heard it was good) - and that's when the ammonia spikes started, so began using Ammo-lock. I add a capful of Prime just before filling the tank, then another capful halfway through. Fish are fine, no stress, etc. About 12 mixed AC's (Petsmart variety). Chemistry: did 30% water change last night and this mornings readings are - ammonia is off the chart at 8+, 0 nitrate and nitrite, pH 8 (these using drops to test). Strip test shows 300 total hardness (very hard) and alkalinity is between 120-180 (idea). I removed some decorations last night - ones added just prior to the smmonia problem (replica Texas holey rock)just in case there might be something leaching out of the plastic?? The test kits and water conditioners are all new, not expired. Why does the ammonia go crazy after a PWC (either way up or no change at all). Could the water conditioners be working against each other? Using only Prime right now, but add the Ammo-Lock after testing. Also, the Ammo-Lock says ammonia will still test positive, even though it has been safely "locked." And a question about the Fluval rings: if they are used to create areas for bacterial growth, why does the package say to replace them after 6 months? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? I will appreciate any help you can give to help solve this mystery, and welcome any info on products, etc.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54272	From: Eleonore Hebenstreit	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!

Hi Joe, just a question about your water ammonia measurement: if it was 4 ppm and you did a 50% water change how can it land at 0.25 ppm? ppm means parts per million and should go linear, meaning it would end at 2 ppm. Is the reading off, the test kit old or did I misunderstand something? It might be important to know if you can trust the further measurement results... In any case it is great you do what you can to improve the situation for the goldfish! Good luck, Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/24/2012
Subject: Re: Urgent!!!

Hi Ray & Nora, Joe contacted me regarding his problems with the Goldfish & as I was unable to help with the declining health of his fish I suggested that he join the forum immediately. In his absence I'm sure he won't mind me filling in a couple of blanks-his pH in the small tank was 6.6 & he had not done any gravel vacuuming. He added salt to the old tank at the volume of 2 UK teaspoons per UK gallon. This is same concentration he has added to his new tank & looking at some online calculators to convert both teaspoons & gallons from UK to US measures I think this would equate to around 45 US teaspoons of salt in a 36 US gallon tank. He has only just bought his test kits-they are new API liquid ones. Hope this helps some. John*<o)))<* On 24 November 2012 17:38, Eleonore Hebenstreit <ehebens@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Joe, > > just a question about your water ammonia measurement: if it was 4 ppm > and you did a 50% water change how can it land at 0.25 ppm? ppm means > parts per million and should go linear, meaning it would end at 2 ppm. > Is the reading off, the test kit old or did I misunderstand something? > It might be important to know if you can trust the further measurement > results... > In any case it is great you do what you can to improve the situation for > the goldfish! > > Good luck, > Nora > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54274	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA

Hi LJ, Despite what your tests are "showing" you, it's extremely doubtful that you have Free Ammonia in your water, or at least probably not any substantial amount, if you do, since you're using a good water conditioner/dechloraminator. Never the less, at 3 months old, your tank should be fully cycled -- for the bioload you've had up until the time you converted to Rift Lake Cichlids. If your bioload is now much heavier than it was previously, you'll be experiencing a mini-cycle as the nitrobacters increase their populations as the added ammonia from the increased bioload is having them do -- but this increased ammonia won't yet be converted until these nitrobacters increase sufficiently to handle this ammonia increase. Of course, at least a part of this ammonia is directly due to your tap water's chloramine, possibly even all of it, if your new bioload is similar to what you had previously. A simple test of your tap water will tell you how much of your ammonia level is due to the chloramine. With you now maintaining African Cichlids -- and with your increase of pH and hardness, I have to assume African Rift Lake Cichlids (as opposed to West African Cichlids) -- even though you don't indicate such, you'd have to be holding the temperature near 78 o if you are to keep them properly. At 78 o and at your pH of 8.0, a 0.5 ppm reading of Total Ammonia would be toxic to your fishes, if your water conditioner were not detoxifying it (converting any Free Ammonia into Ammonium). A 1.0 ppm reading for Total Ammonia, at your parameters (temperature and pH) would be lethal to your fishes. A 4.0 ppm reading for Total Ammonia at 78 o and at pH 8.0 would hold well over 3 X the amount of Free (toxic) Ammonia to kill all of your fishes. At the present reading you state, of 8.0 ppm ammonia, I doubt if even the nitrifying bacteria could survive (LOL). While you stated you use strips to test for your GH, and I presume they're also used for your KH. I note you use drops for testing the pH and the ammonia, so you obviously have liquid test kits -- them being more accurate then strips. To begin with, most aquarium liquid test kits give you a reading for Total Ammonia. Total Ammonia is the combination of Ammonium (relatively non-toxic) and Free Ammonia (toxic). When using a dechloraminator such as Prime, all of your Free Ammonia is converted into Ammonium, making it all relatively non-toxic. While you'll still get a reading for "Ammonia," all of it will be in the form of Ammonium. Too, there are basically two different types of aquarium ammonia liquid test kits -- those with Nessler reagents and those that are Salicylate (indolphenol) - based reagents. The Nessler reagent based ammonia test kits will give erroneous readings with many of the water conditioner dechloraminators. While Prime is an excellent water conditioner by far, and one of the best that you can use, I believe it will produce false ammonia readings when using a Nessler reagent based ammonia test kit. You'd need to either switch to another water conditioner or switch to another (a Salicylate reagent based) liquid ammonia test kit to get a true reading. There are ammonia test kits also, which will give you both the reading for your Total Ammonia and the reading for your Free Ammonia, as separate tests, but these still require using a different water conditioner; I believe Sea Chem offers this combo ammonia kit. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54275	From: Noura	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA

Hi, I don't know much about the chemicals you mentioned, so let's for the "experts" to give their opinion. But, anyway, two questions come to my mind right now, they may not explain the "on and off" spikes of ammonia though, but anyway: Was there a power outage for longer than 2 hours? That could kill your N.bacteria. Or, Was there a temperature drop during your PWC's? Also could affect the N.bacteria. Regards, Noura Sy. ---------- ------------ ----------- ------------ ---------- --------- --------- - -------- - --------- <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54271;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYWpvcG 12BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0Mj cxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzNTM4NDA3NTI-> AMMONIA Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by: <mailto:LJFUQUA@...?subject=Re%3A%20AMMONIA> "LJFUQUA@..." janfuqua2004 I am suddenly getting very high ammonia spikes and am unable to figure it out or control it. The tank details: Oceanic 40 long - set up in 1989 for tropicals. 3 months ago, I gradually phased over to african cichlid tank, replacing the gravel with crushed coral (made pantyhose coils of the gravel and kept them on top on the new substrate for a week (just in case, even though I know most of my bacterial population is in the filters) Have 2 HOB filters: 2-chamber Whisper and 1 chamber Bio-Wheel which was added about 4 months ago (the tank is situated on a pass-thru bar, so no room for a canister). I use Chemipure in one chamber, Fluval ceramics in one chamber, and charcoal packet in the Bio-Wheel (these are new - generic made by Drs. Foster/Smith. All chambers have floss, sponge. Filters are not clogged and floss is rinsed in aquarium water, not tap. I do a PWC/gravel siphon weekly of 25-30% - adding water conditioner to the tank before filling with replacement water - this has been my regimen for years. Had been using Aqueon water conditioner only until recently - started using Prime (heard it was good) - and that's when the ammonia spikes started, so began using Ammo-lock. I add a capful of Prime just before filling the tank, then another capful halfway through. Fish are fine, no stress, etc. About 12 mixed AC's (Petsmart variety). Chemistry: did 30% water change last night and this mornings readings are - ammonia is off the chart at 8+, 0 nitrate and nitrite, pH 8 (these using drops to test). Strip test shows 300 total hardness (very hard) and alkalinity is between 120-180 (idea). I removed some decorations last night - ones added just prior to the smmonia problem (replica Texas holey rock)just in case there might be something leaching out of the plastic?? The test kits and water conditioners are all new, not expired. Why does the ammonia go crazy after a PWC (either way up or no change at all). Could the water conditioners be working against each other? Using only Prime right now, but add the Ammo-Lock after testing. Also, the Ammo-Lock says ammonia will still test positive, even though it has been safely "locked." And a question about the Fluval rings: if they are used to create areas for bacterial growth, why does the package say to replace them after 6 months? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? I will appreciate any help you can give to help solve this mystery, and welcome any info on products, etc. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54276	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA

Hi Noura, "no" to both of your questions, but thanks for asking. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I don't know much about the chemicals you mentioned, so let's for the > "experts" to give their opinion. > > > But, anyway, two questions come to my mind right now, they may not explain > the "on and off" spikes of ammonia though, but anyway: Was there a power > outage for longer than 2 hours? That could kill your N.bacteria. Or, Was > there a temperature drop during your PWC's? Also could affect the > N.bacteria. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Noura Sy. > > > > > > ---------- ------------ ----------- ------------ ---------- --------- > --------- - -------- - --------- > > > > > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54271;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYWpvcG > 12BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0Mj > cxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzNTM4NDA3NTI-> AMMONIA > > > Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by: > > > <mailto:LJFUQUA@...?subject=Re%3A%20AMMONIA> "LJFUQUA@..." > janfuqua2004 > > > I am suddenly getting very high ammonia spikes and am unable to figure it > out or control it. > > The tank details: Oceanic 40 long - set up in 1989 for tropicals. 3 months > ago, I gradually phased over to african cichlid tank, replacing the gravel > with crushed coral (made pantyhose coils of the gravel and kept them on top > on the new substrate for a week (just in case, even though I know most of my > bacterial population is in the filters) Have 2 HOB filters: 2-chamber > Whisper and 1 chamber Bio-Wheel which was added about 4 months ago (the tank > is situated on a pass-thru bar, so no room for a canister). I use Chemipure > in one chamber, Fluval ceramics in one chamber, and charcoal packet in the > Bio-Wheel (these are new - generic made by Drs. Foster/Smith. All chambers > have floss, sponge. Filters are not clogged and floss is rinsed in aquarium > water, not tap. I do a PWC/gravel siphon weekly of 25-30% - adding water > conditioner to the tank before filling with replacement water - this has > been my regimen for years. Had been using Aqueon water conditioner only > until recently - started using Prime (heard it was good) - and that's when > the ammonia spikes started, so began using Ammo-lock. I add a capful of > Prime just before filling the tank, then another capful halfway through. > > Fish are fine, no stress, etc. About 12 mixed AC's (Petsmart variety). > > Chemistry: did 30% water change last night and this mornings readings are - > ammonia is off the chart at 8+, 0 nitrate and nitrite, pH 8 (these using > drops to test). Strip test shows 300 total hardness (very hard) and > alkalinity is between 120-180 (idea). > > I removed some decorations last night - ones added just prior to the smmonia > problem (replica Texas holey rock)just in case there might be something > leaching out of the plastic?? > > The test kits and water conditioners are all new, not expired. Why does the > ammonia go crazy after a PWC (either way up or no change at all). > > Could the water conditioners be working against each other? Using only Prime > right now, but add the Ammo-Lock after testing. Also, the Ammo-Lock says > ammonia will still test positive, even though it has been safely "locked." > > And a question about the Fluval rings: if they are used to create areas for > bacterial growth, why does the package say to replace them after 6 months? > Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? > > I will appreciate any help you can give to help solve this mystery, and > welcome any info on products, etc. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54277	From: LJFUQUA@HOTMAIL.COM	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA and another question

Thanks Ray - I think you solved the mystery - most likely false readings from the test kit/Prime. I was aware that high pH, temp (mine is about 78-80) and just a little ammonia would kill the cichlids (yes, rift lake cichlids) - yet they were not dying - very much thriving. When I was using the test kit with the Aqueon, it did read normal. Another question (supposing I stay with the Prime and find a salycilate test kit): am I over-dosing with the 2 caps on the PWC? (1 cap is for 55 gal and I have 40 gal) - I wonder if this is what is causing the glass and ornaments/plants to coat/feel slimey (too much slime coat?)? --- In Aquat-icLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi LJ, > > Despite what your tests are "showing" you, it's extremely doubtful that you > have Free Ammonia in your water, or at least probably not any substantial > amount, if you do, since you're using a good water > conditioner/dechloraminator. Never the less, at 3 months old, your tank should be fully cycled -- for > the bioload you've had up until the time you converted to Rift Lake > Cichlids. If your bioload is now much heavier than it was previously, you'll be > experiencing a mini-cycle as the nitrobacters increase their populations as > the added ammonia from the increased bioload is having them do -- but this > increased ammonia won't yet be converted until these nitrobacters increase > sufficiently to handle this ammonia increase. Of course, at least a part of > this ammonia is directly due to your tap water's chloramine, possibly even all > of it, if your new bioload is similar to what you had previously. A simple > test of your tap water will tell you how much of your ammonia level is due > to the chloramine. > > With you now maintaining African Cichlids -- and with your increase of pH > and hardness, I have to assume African Rift Lake Cichlids (as opposed to West > African Cichlids) -- even though you don't indicate such, you'd have to be > holding the temperature near 78 o if you are to keep them properly. At 78 o > and at your pH of 8.0, a 0.5 ppm reading of Total Ammonia would be toxic to > your fishes, if your water conditioner were not detoxifying it (converting > any Free Ammonia into Ammonium). A 1.0 ppm reading for Total Ammonia, at > your parameters (temperature and pH) would be lethal to your fishes. A 4.0 > ppm reading for Total Ammonia at 78 o and at pH 8.0 would hold well over 3 X > the amount of Free (toxic) Ammonia to kill all of your fishes. At the > present reading you state, of 8.0 ppm ammonia, I doubt if even the nitrifying > bacteria could survive (LOL). > > While you stated you use strips to test for your GH, and I presume they're > also used for your KH. I note you use drops for testing the pH and the > ammonia, so you obviously have liquid test kits -- them being more accurate then > strips. To begin with, most aquarium liquid test kits give you a reading > for Total Ammonia. Total Ammonia is the combination of Ammonium (relatively > non-toxic) and Free Ammonia (toxic). When using a dechloraminator such as > Prime, all of your Free Ammonia is converted into Ammonium, making it all > relatively non-toxic. While you'll still get a reading for "Ammonia," all of > it will be in the form of Ammonium. > > Too, there are basically two different types of aquarium ammonia liquid > test kits -- those with Nessler reagents and those that are Salicylate > (indolphenol) - based reagents. The Nessler reagent based ammonia test kits will > give erroneous readings with many of the water conditioner dechloraminators. > While Prime is an excellent water conditioner by far, and one of the best > that you can use, I believe it will produce false ammonia readings when using > a Nessler reagent based ammonia test kit. You'd need to either switch to > another water conditioner or switch to another (a Salicylate reagent based) > liquid ammonia test kit to get a true reading. There are ammonia test kits > also, which will give you both the reading for your Total Ammonia and the > reading for your Free Ammonia, as separate tests, but these still require using > a different water conditioner; I believe Sea Chem offers this combo ammonia > kit. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54278	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA and another question

LJ, If you're talking about using one capful of Prime each, for the 55 gallon tank and then for the 40 gallon tank -- for the initial dosage --- you could be a bit heavy on your dosage for the 40 gallon tank. If you're talking about using this amount for each tank when you're making your 25% -- 30% PWC's, you couldf be heavy on both and especially heavy on the 40 gallon tank. The official "average" dosage of Prime is one capful (5 mL) per 50 gallons. This "average" depends on how much chloramine your water company is adding to your tap water. You may need more Prime or you may need less, but this is figuring for 50 gallons. Naturally, when making a 30% partial water change of a full 55 gallons, you're only adding 16.5 gallons of fresh, new water and this is all you need to add water conditioner (about 1/3 capful) to. For a full 40 gallons, a 30% partial water change would mean you're replacing 12 gallons and you'd add about 1/4 capful of Prime. Again, this is if your chloramine content is "average." If you're receiving heavy quantities of chloramine in your tap water, you need to add more Prime than I've shown here. If in doubt, it wouldn't hurt to add up to 5 X the normal Prime dosage, as that's recommended anyway if you have excess nitrite. While Prime is rendered useless after 48 hours, at which time it breaks down, its remnants still remain (until you remove them physically) so that if you use an ammonia testing Nessler reagent, you could still get false readings after 48 hours. Test your tap water for ammonia and you'll know if you need to continue with the increased dosage. Otherwise, just cut down on it. If you need to still use the higher dosage, I'd recommend increasing the aeration as this (and many other) dechloraminator uses a fair amount of oxygen in converting ammonia into ammonium. BTW, your hard and alkaline water may also serve to give you false ammonia readings (even without Prime), with a Nessler reagent based ammonia test, albeit not quite as bad. Additional Prime will not promote sliminess. Unlike Stress Coat and similar water conditioners, Prime contains no Aloe Vera additives to promote slime. It's really best not to use Stress Coat, etc., as fish secret sufficient amounts of body slime on their own -- they've evolved over eons to be able to do this. Unnecessary chemicals of any sort should be avoided whenever possible. As it the case of a good water conditioner though, adding these chemicals is unavoidable. Too much slime can be too much of a good thing, as it can interfere with proper gill function (exchange of gases through the fish). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54279	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 11/25/2012
Subject: Re: AMMONIA

This is not the first situation I've heard just recently where someone began using Prime and their ammonia began testing positive and off the chart while not appearing to affect the fish. Try not using the Prime water conditioner, keep up the water changes, and go back to using the Aqueon conditioner and see what happens. It is very likely the Prime is causing a false ammonia reading on your test kit. It will take time for all of the Prime conditioner to be removed from the water via water changes, but keep it up and watch for a decline in your ammonia reading. As long as the fish appear to not be affected I wouldn't panic about this. I can't answer your question about the Fluval rings at this time because I'm not familiar with the latest Fluval filters as of yet. I will look this up as soon as I get a chance so I can hopefully offer you an explanation about that, too... unless someone else has one of these filters and beats me to it. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, LJFUQUA@... wrote: > > I am suddenly getting very high ammonia spikes and am unable to figure it out or control it. > > The tank details: Oceanic 40 long - set up in 1989 for tropicals. 3 months ago, I gradually phased over to african cichlid tank, replacing the gravel with crushed coral (made pantyhose coils of the gravel and kept them on top on the new substrate for a week (just in case, even though I know most of my bacterial population is in the filters) Have 2 HOB filters: 2-chamber Whisper and 1 chamber Bio-Wheel which was added about 4 months ago (the tank is situated on a pass-thru bar, so no room for a canister). I use Chemipure in one chamber, Fluval ceramics in one chamber, and charcoal packet in the Bio-Wheel (these are new - generic made by Drs. Foster/Smith. All chambers have floss, sponge. Filters are not clogged and floss is rinsed in aquarium water, not tap. I do a PWC/gravel siphon weekly of 25-30% - adding water conditioner to the tank before filling with replacement water - this has been my regimen for years. Had been using Aqueon water conditioner only until recently - started using Prime (heard it was good) - and that's when the ammonia spikes started, so began using Ammo-lock. I add a capful of Prime just before filling the tank, then another capful halfway through. > > Fish are fine, no stress, etc. About 12 mixed AC's (Petsmart variety). > > Chemistry: did 30% water change last night and this mornings readings are - ammonia is off the chart at 8+, 0 nitrate and nitrite, pH 8 (these using drops to test). Strip test shows 300 total hardness (very hard) and alkalinity is between 120-180 (idea). > > I removed some decorations last night - ones added just prior to the smmonia problem (replica Texas holey rock)just in case there might be something leaching out of the plastic?? > > The test kits and water conditioners are all new, not expired. Why does the ammonia go crazy after a PWC (either way up or no change at all). > > Could the water conditioners be working against each other? Using only Prime right now, but add the Ammo-Lock after testing. Also, the Ammo-Lock says ammonia will still test positive, even though it has been safely "locked." > > And a question about the Fluval rings: if they are used to create areas for bacterial growth, why does the package say to replace them after 6 months? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? > > I will appreciate any help you can give to help solve this mystery, and welcome any info on products, etc. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54280	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Hi, First of all i would just like to say thanks to everyone for all there help recently. I am finding all of this quite a lot to take in at the moment if i am being honest, the good news is that my common goldfish has survived and is looking in really good shape, i no that my new tank is still cycling and that things could still change, the readings i am getting are ph 7.4, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrate 0ppm and nitrate 0ppm, i am using an api test kit as advised. This is the 8th day the goldfish has been in the new tank and i am doind daily water changes of around 15% and testing the water daily. Could anyone advise me of what exactly i should be doing and what signs to look out for as i am still very new to all this. Kind regards Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54281	From: joebhoy80	Date: 11/27/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

just another thing i have just noticed is that he is doing the toilet at the moment and it is about the same length as his body (about 4.5 inches) and it is really thin like a strand of hair and some of it is a clear white colour some of it is brown but it is mostly a white clear colour, anyone no what this could be? regards Joe --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joebhoy80" <joebhoy80@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > First of all i would just like to say thanks to everyone for all there help recently. > > I am finding all of this quite a lot to take in at the moment if i am being honest, the good news is that my common goldfish has survived and is looking in really good shape, i no that my new tank is still cycling and that things could still change, the readings i am getting are ph 7.4, ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrate 0ppm and nitrate 0ppm, i am using an api test kit as advised. > > This is the 8th day the goldfish has been in the new tank and i am doind daily water changes of around 15% and testing the water daily. > > Could anyone advise me of what exactly i should be doing and what signs to look out for as i am still very new to all this. > > Kind regards > > Joe >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54282	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Joe, Just keep on top of your water testing and partial water changing. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm is surely non-toxic to your Goldfish. If daily 15% PWC's are ensuring this, you may not need to make daily PWC's. If your ammonia level were up to 1.0 ppm, it would still be only at half the level that would be toxic to your fish (at your temperature and pH). While any higher ammonia level is more stressful to your fish, at a much lower level (such as your 0.25 ppm), it will take "forever" to cycle your tank since there's little food for the nitrobacters to consume and grow (multiply) on. Cycling a tank with fish in it is generally expected to be somewhat stressful for the fish -- the reason why we try to avoid it whenever possible. If you don't want to subject your fish to quite as much stress, you may hold the ammonia level at a more relatively stress-free level of 0.50 ppm, but it will then take longer to finally establish your cycle. As it is now, at a lower temperature, it's going to take longer than usual anyway, so be prepared for a good couple of months of this keeping on top of things. As for any other things to watch for, just keep an eye on your fish's behavior. The first sign of any fish feeling a stress is a decrease in appetite -- usually, even before it starts folding its fins. As long as it's eating normally, it's a good sign that it's feeling comfortable. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54283	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Joe, What you describe sounds very much like the internal infection called "Hexamita," which Goldfish can get. My first medication(s) (combination) of choice include Metronidazole as the partner treatment against this malady, but this is not one that's readily dissolved at a lower temperature, nor especially readily absorbed internally by any fish until at least 84 o is reached -- the medication actually becoming most effective at 88 o -- either temperature way too high for Goldfish. There is a medicated Krill fish food that contains Metronidazole though, called "Metro-Med," which you could try, to get this medication into the fish. Barring that, if you can't locate it, my second suggestion would be to use Fenbendazole ("Panacur"), which comes dissolved as a liquid medication. As the fish is still apparently eating (or I'd assume you'd have mentioned if it weren't), it's not yet feeling any adverse effects of this protozoan (flagellate), so this would be the time to treat it. There's one other medication for treating against this disease, called Praziquantel ("Prazi-Pro") which may be worth a try if you can't find anything else, but the reports of success with this are mixed. You could still try Metronidazole, first by dissolving it in an extremely small quantity of very warm (almost boiling) water to make a paste, and increasing its solution (adding more warm water) before adding it to the aquarium. Despite what the directions state (to use at a rate of 250 mg per 10 gallons) on the container, I've found that a minimum of 400 mg per 10 gallons is needed to be effective, with 500 mg per 10 gallon being best -- as I've since read, with reports by fish pathologists recommending this. Metronidazole can't be "overdosed" at these levels and at a much lower water temperature you may need to add just a bit more as cooler water results in a more marginal performance. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54284	From: joebhoy80@yahoo.co.uk	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Hi ray thanks again for the information I really appreciate you taking time out your day to help me, I'm going to cut back on the water changes and just keep testing my water, he seems to be really happy at the moment so alls looking good, thanks again, joe. Sent from my BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 05:46:38 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Thanks Everyone! More info needed!! Joe, Just keep on top of your water testing and partial water changing. An ammonia level of 0.25 ppm is surely non-toxic to your Goldfish. If daily 15% PWC's are ensuring this, you may not need to make daily PWC's. If your ammonia level were up to 1.0 ppm, it would still be only at half the level that would be toxic to your fish (at your temperature and pH). While any higher ammonia level is more stressful to your fish, at a much lower level (such as your 0.25 ppm), it will take "forever" to cycle your tank since there's little food for the nitrobacters to consume and grow (multiply) on. Cycling a tank with fish in it is generally expected to be somewhat stressful for the fish -- the reason why we try to avoid it whenever possible. If you don't want to subject your fish to quite as much stress, you may hold the ammonia level at a more relatively stress-free level of 0.50 ppm, but it will then take longer to finally establish your cycle. As it is now, at a lower temperature, it's going to take longer than usual anyway, so be prepared for a good couple of months of this keeping on top of things. As for any other things to watch for, just keep an eye on your fish's behavior. The first sign of any fish feeling a stress is a decrease in appetite -- usually, even before it starts folding its fins. As long as it's eating normally, it's a good sign that it's feeling comfortable. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54285	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 11/28/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Ray replied: > While any higher ammonia level is more stressful > to your fish, at a much lower level (such as > your 0.25 ppm), it will take "forever" to cycle your > tank since there's little food for the nitrobacters > to consume and grow (multiply) on. I am going to have to disagree with this.  If you can measure ammonia, then there is an excess of it in the water, more that the current bacteria population can handle. Therefore it would seem reasonable that the bacteria would have plenty to consume and will multiple at whatever their maximum rate is for the conditions. Since bacteria can only multiple at a constant rate putting even more ammonia in the water shouldn't have any effect of the rate at which they multiply. So keeping the ammonia levels low, but still measurable on a standard hobbyist grade test kit, should not effect cycle time. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54286	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Hi Patrick, I agree with what seems reasonable to you. Nitrifying bacteria multiply at an extremely slow rate when compared to other types of bacteria, and when compared especially with pathogenic bacteria. It would though, seem just by this factor that despite their very slow growth rate, that feeding them more would speed their multiplication rate up at least somewhat, as might be expected of any living organisms. However -- and as you point out -- this "seems" not to be the case for them when considering their set growth rates, but any larger amount of ammonia above what they can continue to consume will ensure their maximum growth rate -- and yes, this would seem to only need to be a level of only 0.25 ppm of ammonia, in theory. In actual practice though, time and time again, through numerous establishing cycles, it has been decisely and repeatedly shown, that using only this token low level of ammonia as compared to using a much larger ammonia value will actually impede the nitrobacter's multiplication rate -- or at the very least, not enable it to advance nearly as fast as when a higher ammonia level is present -- even though they can't consume it all at once. While I have no explanation for this, I speak from experience and from the many experiences of hobbyists who I guide and follow through their cycling stages; a 0.25 ppm level of ammonia has shown to actually extend the establishing of a cycle by up to 2 additional weeks as opposed to maintaining a higher ammonia level. When the hobbyist chooses the fishless cycling method, it is universally accepted (and recommended) that a concentration of between 4.0 ppm and 5.0 ppm be used at the start of the cycle, and maintained at this level throughout the procedure. While a typical bioload of fish, after they are added at the end of this cycle, may not necessarily produce such a constant level of ammonia for the cycled nitrobacters to consume -- and I'm sure the excess nitrobacter populations will starve out as a result of the typical bioload's lower ammonia production -- this appears to be the best and fastest way to cycle a tank according to the experts. With already having a fish in the tank, such a high ammonia level can't be maintained of course, but as high as is still comfortable for the fish is encouraged to complete the cycle in as short of time as possible Ray P.S,: On average, it generally takes about 24 hours for nitrifying bacteria to double their populations, whereas most other bacteria will double their populations in minutes in favorable conditions. That's the comparison of one bacteria type to to the others. Nitrobacters grow at a comparatively very slow rate.</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54287	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Hi Ray, I think as long as Joe is happy with his current regime then he will not mind the cycling process taking an additional 2 weeks at this lower level & also this low level of ammonia is far less uncomfortable for his fish than if it were upped to say 0.5. I have seen a movie of his fish a couple of days ago & it looks & acts just fine darting around & investigating everything in the tank. This is probably because he/she was in a tiny 4 gallon tank for a year so this new home must seem like heaven! John*<o)))<* On 29 November 2012 10:59, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Patrick, > > I agree with what seems reasonable to you. Nitrifying bacteria multiply at > an extremely slow rate when compared to other types of bacteria, and when > compared especially with pathogenic bacteria. It would though, seem just > by > this factor that despite their very slow growth rate, that feeding them > more > would speed their multiplication rate up at least somewhat, as might be > expected of any living organisms. However -- and as you point out -- this > "seems" not to be the case for them when considering their set growth > rates, but > any larger amount of ammonia above what they can continue to consume will > ensure their maximum growth rate -- and yes, this would seem to only need > to > be a level of only 0.25 ppm of ammonia, in theory. > > In actual practice though, time and time again, through numerous > establishing cycles, it has been decisely and repeatedly shown, that using > only this > token low level of ammonia as compared to using a much larger ammonia > value > will actually impede the nitrobacter's multiplication rate -- or at the > very > least, not enable it to advance nearly as fast as when a higher ammonia > level is present -- even though they can't consume it all at once. While I > have > no explanation for this, I speak from experience and from the many > experiences of hobbyists who I guide and follow through their cycling > stages; a 0.25 > ppm level of ammonia has shown to actually extend the establishing of a > cycle by up to 2 additional weeks as opposed to maintaining a higher > ammonia > level. > > When the hobbyist chooses the fishless cycling method, it is universally > accepted (and recommended) that a concentration of between 4.0 ppm and 5.0 > ppm > be used at the start of the cycle, and maintained at this level throughout > the procedure. While a typical bioload of fish, after they are added at > the > end of this cycle, may not necessarily produce such a constant level of > ammonia for the cycled nitrobacters to consume -- and I'm sure the excess > nitrobacter populations will starve out as a result of the typical > bioload's > lower ammonia production -- this appears to be the best and fastest way to > cycle a tank according to the experts. With already having a fish in the > tank, > such a high ammonia level can't be maintained of course, but as high as is > still comfortable for the fish is encouraged to complete the cycle in as > short of time as possible > > Ray > > P.S,: On average, it generally takes about 24 hours for nitrifying > bacteria to double their populations, whereas most other bacteria will > double their > populations in minutes in favorable conditions. That's the comparison of > one bacteria type to to the others. Nitrobacters grow at a comparatively > very slow rate.</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54288	From: Patrick	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > In actual practice though, time and time again, through numerous > establishing cycles, it has been decisely and repeatedly shown, > that using only this token low level of ammonia as compared to > using a much larger ammonia value will actually impede the > nitrobacter's multiplication rate -- or at the very > least, not enable it to advance nearly as fast as when a higher > ammonia level is present -- even though they can't consume it all > at once. While I have no explanation for this, I speak from > experience and from the many experiences of hobbyists who I guide > and follow through their cycling stages; a 0.25 ppm level of > ammonia has shown to actually extend the establishing of a > cycle by up to 2 additional weeks as opposed to maintaining a > higher ammonia level. Good morning Ray, Unfortunately your observation/experience is anecdotal. Show me the data. :) There are several key factors that go into the growth of nitrobacter growth. In particular pH, how much free ammonia is present in the water, temperature, oxygen levels, presence of other acids some important to their growth and some that can inhibit their growth, and even the light source over a tank can all have a direct impact on the rate at which these species of bacteria grow. For example, a higher pH is better for growth rates but also creates more free ammonia (vs. ammonium) which is not good for growth rates. So while it is nearly impossible for hobbyist to be able to control all these things with any degree of certainty and every tank is usually very different than every other tank, you can not simply pick ONE factor and claim it is the one limiting the process when any one aquarium can have widely varying factors such as pH, changes in pH through the day, temperatures, water chemistry, etc. all of which effect that rate. So I would be hesitant to suggest people arbitrarily raise their measured ammonia levels to speed up the process when any number of other factors may be the cause of a slow cycle time. It might help in some cases but in just as many other cases it may do nothing more than raise the ammonia levels for the inhabitants in the tank. Regards, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54289	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 11/29/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

I’m with Ray, we suggest going to 4ppm for a fishless cycle. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:36 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > In actual practice though, time and time again, through numerous > establishing cycles, it has been decisely and repeatedly shown, > that using only this token low level of ammonia as compared to > using a much larger ammonia value will actually impede the > nitrobacter's multiplication rate -- or at the very > least, not enable it to advance nearly as fast as when a higher > ammonia level is present -- even though they can't consume it all > at once. While I have no explanation for this, I speak from > experience and from the many experiences of hobbyists who I guide > and follow through their cycling stages; a 0.25 ppm level of > ammonia has shown to actually extend the establishing of a > cycle by up to 2 additional weeks as opposed to maintaining a > higher ammonia level. Good morning Ray, Unfortunately your observation/experience is anecdotal. Show me the data. :) There are several key factors that go into the growth of nitrobacter growth. In particular pH, how much free ammonia is present in the water, temperature, oxygen levels, presence of other acids some important to their growth and some that can inhibit their growth, and even the light source over a tank can all have a direct impact on the rate at which these species of bacteria grow. For example, a higher pH is better for growth rates but also creates more free ammonia (vs. ammonium) which is not good for growth rates. So while it is nearly impossible for hobbyist to be able to control all these things with any degree of certainty and every tank is usually very different than every other tank, you can not simply pick ONE factor and claim it is the one limiting the process when any one aquarium can have widely varying factors such as pH, changes in pH through the day, temperatures, water chemistry, etc. all of which effect that rate. So I would be hesitant to suggest people arbitrarily raise their measured ammonia levels to speed up the process when any number of other factors may be the cause of a slow cycle time. It might help in some cases but in just as many other cases it may do nothing more than raise the ammonia levels for the inhabitants in the tank. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54290	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Good Morning Patrick, Yes, there are other factors that contribute to the nitrobacters' successful prosperity in multiplication, just as there are with any other organism. I solely addressed your comments on ammonia as pertains to nitrobacters only as this was the topic of discussion both before your first post in this thread and as was still the topic you brought up. Naturally, the temperature of the environment of any organism which can't regulate their own have a lot to do with their rate of multiplication and even their success in remaining alive, depending on their preferred temperature range. I recognize and agree with you again on these organisms' oxygen needs, in that nitrobacters are aerobic autotrophic bacteria, although not only do they require a good source of oxygen but also need carbon dioxide to use nitrogen compounds to synthesize their foods. This is a given, and you're not telling us anything new. It's the reason why these organisms prefer colonizing aquarium filters to populate in maximum concentrations, as that's where the most oxygenated water will be flowing past them at any given time. As most hobbyist use a filter, and as most hobbyists set up their tanks with clean and conditioned tap water, this unpolluted flowing water ensures the maximum amount of oxygen in the water -- but again, as you're suggesting, this oxygen content can vary, and naturally again, the more oxygen available to these microbes, the better they'll thrive. As for pH and "the presence of other acids," while we all know these can vary, similar to most other bacteria, an acidic pH is not conducive to the flourishing of nitrobacters and most other bacteria, and can impede their multiplication depending on the level of pH; a much lower pH can kill off many bacteria and/or will not allow bacteria to grow at all. Still, these is not usually the deciding factor in cultivating nitrobacters in the home aquarium, and especially not in a newly set up home aquarium, as not only is the water well oxygenated, but the pH from the tap is usually alkaline since most water companies maintain it as such in efforts to prevent their infrastucture from deteriorating. As no organism can thrive, let alone live without food, keeping a proper level of ammonia in the aquarium is the major factor, even if not the limiting one, in establishing a cycle (especially because "it's nearly impossible for the hobbyists to be able to control all these things with any degree of certainty") -- and we're assuming the pH and O2 levels are already well within a range beneficial for these microbes. As the next intention is to add fish, it would be in the hobbyists' best interest to maintain these levels accordingly, to see that these organisms thrive also. While chlorinated water from a water supplier that hasn't yet converted to chloramine will still have a level of free ammonia after being treated with a dechlorinator -- and that level depends on both the temperature and pH (with the higher temperature and pH promoting more free ammonia), as I've described in other threads -- water received from a supply containing chloramine will usually not contain any free ammonia when a good dechloraminator is used, which converts any free ammonia into ammonium, and I'm assuming that Joe is using a good dechloraminator. Additional, with Joe's pH and temperature -- and you may remember my posts pertained directly to Joe's specific issues in this thread -- his free ammonia at his pH 7.4, and at an assumed 68 o F, is 0.002 ppm (at 69 o and up to 76 o F, he has 0.003 ppm free ammonia), when keeping a level of 0.25 ppm total ammonia. If he were to keep the total ammonia level at 1.00 ppm, his free ammonia would still only be at 0.010 ppm (at 68 o or 69 o F) or at 0.011 ppm (if the temperature were up to 73 o F; still not a hugh amount. Noticing too, that Donna also suggests going with 4.0 ppm of ammonia for a fishless cycle (thank you, Donna), you may choose to believe what is recommended. If you choose not to believe anything I'm saying, that's your prerogative, but I still stand by my advice as beneficial towards helping most other members here. Best of luck. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54291	From: Patrick	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I'm with Ray, we suggest going to 4ppm for a fishless cycle. I have no problem with that when talking about fishless cycling. However my response was assuming tanks WITH fish in them, as Joe's original post was about his goldfish tank and elevated ammonia levels and Ray's response suggesting a higher ammonia level might speed things up. My point is I would be hesitant to suggest to Joe that he allow those Ammonia levels to rise (by changing less water) in an attempt to speed up the cycle when none of us can know what factors in his tank are effecting the cycle time. Allowing the levels to rise may only have the effect of subjecting his fish to a harsher environment with perhaps no effect on the cycle and worst case it could even slow things down. Since his fish are seemingly doing well under current conditions, I would suggest Joe stay with what he is doing and wait it out. Cheers, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54292	From: harry perry	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami

I just picked up 4 of these. Have them intheir own tank. Anything special I should know about these fish? Anything any one can share would be appreciated. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54293	From: joebhoy80@yahoo.co.uk	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Thanks for all the advice patrick and everyone else, everything seems to be going well, doing daily tests and partial water changes, the fish is looking in great shape which is the main thing, thanks again folks Joe Sent from my BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:14:52 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I'm with Ray, we suggest going to 4ppm for a fishless cycle. I have no problem with that when talking about fishless cycling. However my response was assuming tanks WITH fish in them, as Joe's original post was about his goldfish tank and elevated ammonia levels and Ray's response suggesting a higher ammonia level might speed things up. My point is I would be hesitant to suggest to Joe that he allow those Ammonia levels to rise (by changing less water) in an attempt to speed up the cycle when none of us can know what factors in his tank are effecting the cycle time. Allowing the levels to rise may only have the effect of subjecting his fish to a harsher environment with perhaps no effect on the cycle and worst case it could even slow things down. Since his fish are seemingly doing well under current conditions, I would suggest Joe stay with what he is doing and wait it out. Cheers, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54294	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 11/30/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Hi Patrick, I don't understand your being in favor of maintaining that much (4.0 ppm) more ammonia in a tank for fishless cycling, but not wanting to maintain 1.0 ppm ammonia to cycle as tank (with Joe's parameters) having a fish in it. I'm sure Joe's responsible enough to use as a good dechloraminator with any tap water he adds to his tank, and this will render any free ammonia harmless by converting it to ammonium. If he doesn't do a PWC after two days, he can still add some dechloraminator after that time to keep any organic waste ammonia/ammonium (from the fish) from remaining as free ammonia. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54295	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami

A very lovely fish, but one that is sensitive to water quality. I had a group of six, three each of the two very similar species Sphaerichthys osphromenoides [this is the most common "Chocolate"] and Sphaerichthys selatanensis. The latter has a distinct horizontal cream-coloured band that is lacking in the other species. My S. osphromenoides spawned several times, and without any intervention from me I had several fry survive. Sadly I lost the whole tankful within a week due to a skin pathogen. A very heavily-planted tank is needed. These fish are not active swimmers at all, remaining among thick vegetation all day, slowly cruising among the plants and branches, picking off tidbits of microscopic food. There interaction is fascinating, so it is good you have 4. Males have a light (creamy white) edge to the dorsal and anal fins, and females have a dark spot on the caudal fin. They are mouthbrooders. Mine were in a tank thick with Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis), rooted in the substrate and allowed to reach the surface. Some continued to grow on the surface, but I prefer to trim it regularly to keep it at surface length so the lower leaves are less likely to fall off; Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) makes an ideal floating plant. The thick planting is undoubtedly why so many fry managed to survive; they not only found shelter at the surface but sufficient natural food. Tankmates from the medium rasbora such as the species in Trigonostigma are ideal. These fish too are not "swimmers" and the thick plants suit them admirably. I also had a group of Trichopsis pumila (pygmy or sparkling gourami) in this tank (a 70g) and they also spawned regularly and some fry survived. I kept the tank at 80F, and did weekly 50% water changes. Minimal water movement, just enough to circulate the tank gently. Very soft (near zero GH), pH below 6. I fed a variety of flake and micro-pellet foods. Things were fine for over a year until the pathogen did its thing. Byron. Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/chocolate-gourami/#ixzz2DoRy4xK1 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I just picked up 4 of these. Have them intheir own tank. Anything special I should know about these fish? Anything any one can share would be appreciated. > > Harry > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54296	From: Patrick	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > I don't understand your being in favor of maintaining that much > (4.0 ppm) more ammonia in a tank for fishless cycling, but not > wanting to maintain 1.0 ppm ammonia to cycle as tank (with Joe's > parameters) having a fish in it. Isn't that obvious? With fishless cycling there are no fish, so elevated ammonia levels won't hurt any living things in a tank. And you don't really care how long the cycle takes with respect to stressing fish. So if something in your tank's setup and conditions causes the tank to take an extra long time to cycle, the only thing this bothers is the convenience of the tank owner, not potentially harming living creatures in your care. > I'm sure Joe's responsible enough to use as a good dechloraminator > with any tap water he adds to his tank, and this will render any > free ammonia harmless by converting it to ammonium. Yes, if he uses public water that requires it. Probably a good assumption he is on public water so you are probably correct. However not everyone is. I have a private well, so one of the advantages of this is I can go straight from tap to tank with no treatment. Very convenient when you use a Python water changing device as I only need to adjust for temperature before refilling the tank. > If he doesn't do a PWC after two days, he can still add some > dechloraminator after that time to keep any organic waste > ammonia/ammonium (from the fish) from remaining as free ammonia. Which is a good suggestion and perhaps we should be suggesting that to anyone cycling a new tank even when they are not changing water. Since free ammonia is bad both for fish and the cycle process, I can't think of a reason off the top of my head that adding some every couple days would be a bad idea. Cheers, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54297	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/1/2012
Subject: Re: Thanks Everyone! More info needed!!

Patrick, Sorry to say, no it's not very obvious at all. I think you're missing something here. The 1.0 ppm level of ammonia, at the pH 7.4 conditions that I recommended it for, would not hurt any living thing at all, and especially not if a dechloraminator were used such as Prime. There would be absolutely no free ammonia. Agreed, not everyone is on a public water supply. While I have a public supply for my tap water, I too am using my private well for my aquarium water. While I don't need to use a water conditioner of any kind, there's nothing from preventing me from still using a dechloraminator to convert any free ammonia into ammonium if it ever builds up. I think we can agree on something, and that is, to suggest to anyone to use a good dechloraminator whether establishing a fish-less cycle or a cycle in a tank containing fish (but most importantly, in a tank containing fish). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54298	From: harry perry	Date: 12/2/2012
Subject: Byron....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami

Than you so much for responding. I did lose one. And it looked like another was going also.Then I took my best heater and set it at 80. The weak one seemed to recover overnight. Am feeding flake, bloodworms and BBS. My pH is 8. I don't like to use chemicals so I put some oak leaves in the tank to bring it down gradually. These seem to be extremely delicate fish. Do you think salt would have helped with the skin pathogen?. Thanks again for your help. Harry ________________________________ From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 10:14 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami   A very lovely fish, but one that is sensitive to water quality. I had a group of six, three each of the two very similar species Sphaerichthys osphromenoides [this is the most common "Chocolate"] and Sphaerichthys selatanensis. The latter has a distinct horizontal cream-coloured band that is lacking in the other species. My S. osphromenoides spawned several times, and without any intervention from me I had several fry survive. Sadly I lost the whole tankful within a week due to a skin pathogen. A very heavily-planted tank is needed. These fish are not active swimmers at all, remaining among thick vegetation all day, slowly cruising among the plants and branches, picking off tidbits of microscopic food. There interaction is fascinating, so it is good you have 4. Males have a light (creamy white) edge to the dorsal and anal fins, and females have a dark spot on the caudal fin. They are mouthbrooders. Mine were in a tank thick with Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis), rooted in the substrate and allowed to reach the surface. Some continued to grow on the surface, but I prefer to trim it regularly to keep it at surface length so the lower leaves are less likely to fall off; Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) makes an ideal floating plant. The thick planting is undoubtedly why so many fry managed to survive; they not only found shelter at the surface but sufficient natural food. Tankmates from the medium rasbora such as the species in Trigonostigma are ideal. These fish too are not "swimmers" and the thick plants suit them admirably. I also had a group of Trichopsis pumila (pygmy or sparkling gourami) in this tank (a 70g) and they also spawned regularly and some fry survived. I kept the tank at 80F, and did weekly 50% water changes. Minimal water movement, just enough to circulate the tank gently. Very soft (near zero GH), pH below 6. I fed a variety of flake and micro-pellet foods. Things were fine for over a year until the pathogen did its thing. Byron. Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/chocolate-gourami/#ixzz2DoRy4xK1 --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I just picked up 4 of these. Have them intheir own tank. Anything special I should know about these fish? Anything any one can share would be appreciated. > > Harry > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54299	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 12/3/2012
Subject: Byron....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami

Yes, they are very sensitive fish. I would go easy on the bloodworms, no more than once a week. That is a very high pH for this fish, but I agree to lower it naturally. I would be inclined to do a water change, or rather a series of small water changes, using "pure" water (rainwater, RO or distilled) to get the GH and pH down. You haven't mentioned GH, and that is probably even more significant to soft water fish than pH; but with a pH of 8 I expect the GH may be high? Worth considering. Bacteria and fungus is easier to control in soft water, and given the sensitivity of this species lowering the GH would help there too. The leaves will also aid you, they are good at targeting bacteria. I would never use salt with any soft water fish, unless that were the only option. The detrimental effects of salt on soft water fish is not worth the risk, nor of adding additional stress. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Than you so much for responding. I did lose one. And it looked like another was going also.Then I took my best heater and set it at 80. The weak one seemed to recover overnight. Am feeding flake, bloodworms and BBS. > > My pH is 8. I don't like to use chemicals so I put some oak leaves in the tank to bring it down gradually. > > These seem to be extremely delicate fish. > > Do you think salt would have helped with the skin pathogen?. > > Thanks again for your help. > > Harry > > > > ________________________________ > From: amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 10:14 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on Chocolate Gourami > > >   > A very lovely fish, but one that is sensitive to water quality. I had a group of six, three each of the two very similar species Sphaerichthys osphromenoides [this is the most common "Chocolate"] and Sphaerichthys selatanensis. The latter has a distinct horizontal cream-coloured band that is lacking in the other species. My S. osphromenoides spawned several times, and without any intervention from me I had several fry survive. Sadly I lost the whole tankful within a week due to a skin pathogen. > > A very heavily-planted tank is needed. These fish are not active swimmers at all, remaining among thick vegetation all day, slowly cruising among the plants and branches, picking off tidbits of microscopic food. There interaction is fascinating, so it is good you have 4. Males have a light (creamy white) edge to the dorsal and anal fins, and females have a dark spot on the caudal fin. They are mouthbrooders. > > Mine were in a tank thick with Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis), rooted in the substrate and allowed to reach the surface. Some continued to grow on the surface, but I prefer to trim it regularly to keep it at surface length so the lower leaves are less likely to fall off; Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) makes an ideal floating plant. The thick planting is undoubtedly why so many fry managed to survive; they not only found shelter at the surface but sufficient natural food. > > Tankmates from the medium rasbora such as the species in Trigonostigma are ideal. These fish too are not "swimmers" and the thick plants suit them admirably. I also had a group of Trichopsis pumila (pygmy or sparkling gourami) in this tank (a 70g) and they also spawned regularly and some fry survived. > > I kept the tank at 80F, and did weekly 50% water changes. Minimal water movement, just enough to circulate the tank gently. Very soft (near zero GH), pH below 6. I fed a variety of flake and micro-pellet foods. Things were fine for over a year until the pathogen did its thing. > > Byron. > > Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/profiles/chocolate-gourami/#ixzz2DoRy4xK1 > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > I just picked up 4 of these. Have them intheir own tank. Anything special I should know about these fish? Anything any one can share would be appreciated. > > > > Harry > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54300	From: Noura	Date: 12/4/2012
Subject: Tubifex worms

Hello, How many times a week would you feed these fish freezedried Tubifex worms? Community tank: Mollies, Clown Loach, Angel. Yellow Lab tank Guppy tank "with a couple of albino corys" Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54301	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/4/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms

Never for the labs. Probably never for any of them. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Tubifex worms Hello, How many times a week would you feed these fish freezedried Tubifex worms? Community tank: Mollies, Clown Loach, Angel. Yellow Lab tank Guppy tank "with a couple of albino corys" Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54302	From: Noura	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms

I thought that "Blood worms" are the problematic ones for African Cichlids, isn't it? Why wouldn't you give any tropical fish species these worms? Thanks, Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Never for the labs. Probably never for any of them. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tubifex worms > > > > > > Hello, > > How many times a week would you feed these fish freezedried Tubifex worms? > > Community tank: Mollies, Clown Loach, Angel. > > Yellow Lab tank > > Guppy tank "with a couple of albino corys" > > Thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54303	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms

Tubiflex can carry parasites and diseases. Mbuna are not carnivores and so do not need that level of protein. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:19 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tubifex worms I thought that "Blood worms" are the problematic ones for African Cichlids, isn't it? Why wouldn't you give any tropical fish species these worms? Thanks, Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Never for the labs. Probably never for any of them. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tubifex worms > > > > > > Hello, > > How many times a week would you feed these fish freezedried Tubifex worms? > > Community tank: Mollies, Clown Loach, Angel. > > Yellow Lab tank > > Guppy tank "with a couple of albino corys" > > Thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54304	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms

We used to feed them to our puffers as they required live foods. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Noura <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 6, 2012 11:24 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Tubifex worms I thought that "Blood worms" are the problematic ones for African Cichlids, isn't it? Why wouldn't you give any tropical fish species these worms? Thanks, Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Never for the labs. Probably never for any of them. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:45 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Tubifex worms > > > > > > Hello, > > How many times a week would you feed these fish freezedried Tubifex worms? > > Community tank: Mollies, Clown Loach, Angel. > > Yellow Lab tank > > Guppy tank "with a couple of albino corys" > > Thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54305	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/7/2012
Subject: Re: Tubifex worms

Hi Noura, Just to clarify, "Bloodworms" are not actually "worms," but are the larvae of midge fly's -- so they're really insect matter. They're one of the best foods that can be fed to most carnivorous and omnivorous tropical fishes, especially as they also don't carry the diseases that Tubifex worms can carry. High protein foods are not assimilated well by most rock-dwelling (Mbuna) Rift Lake Cichlids, which will often experience bloat as a result of eating too much of them. While many Rift Lake Cichlids do eat small invertibrates ("aufwichs") found within the green algae they scrape off of the rocks, by this it can be seen that the majority of their diet is vegetable (algae) matter. There are a number of insectivore Rift Lake Cichlid species, which will benefit more from consuming Bloodworms, but even then, they should not be fed too much of them, as these fishes too include algae as part of their diets. Many Melanochromis and Labidochromis fit into this category, but Spirulina and Algae based foods should still be the staple for these fishes. I feed this food, but very sparingly, to my Cyrtocara, Placidochromis, Protomelas, Sciaenochomis -- as these fishes are not rock dwellers but instead sift through the sand for inverts (and Bloodworms are [larger] inverts) -- and some Neolamprologus (N. leleupi). The Lake Tanganyika Tropheus especially, should not be fed Bloodworms -- at least not very much of them, if any -- as the food is too rich in protein for them to digest well. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54306	From: goldmental	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Fish food

Hi, which is the best food between hikari and new life spectrum I even want to try omega one but it is not easily available in Bangalore. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54307	From: Deenerz@aol.com	Date: 12/9/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food

My preference is for the New life spectrum. If it is a moist variety of Omega one my fish go nuts over it. Nothing wrong with Hikari either. I am almost out of New life spectrum and will be shopping for another 5 lbs in a day or two. Best prices in that bulk. Mike -----Original Message----- From: goldmental <devgiriprasad@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 7:23 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish food Hi, which is the best food between hikari and new life spectrum I even want to try omega one but it is not easily available in Bangalore. Thank you.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54308	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food

New Life Spectrum for me. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of goldmental Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish food Hi, which is the best food between hikari and new life spectrum I even want to try omega one but it is not easily available in Bangalore. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54309	From: Rnp@comporium.net	Date: 12/10/2012
Subject: Re: Fish food

Try Cobalts probiotic pellets. On Dec 10, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > New Life Spectrum for me. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of goldmental > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Fish food > > Hi, > > which is the best food between hikari and new life spectrum I even want > to try omega one but it is not easily available in Bangalore. > > Thank you. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54310	From: Ava	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Snails in betta tank

So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this morning). What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself while treating fin rot, oops). I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. They're so tiny. 10gallon 80 degrees F -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54311	From: Brian	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

How about trying to trap them? I'd try putting a little piece of lettuce or something else snails might like in a pill bottle or something and leave it overnight sitting on the bottom of the tank. Weight it down if needed. Check it in the morning and remove it with any snails inside. Repeat until they are gone. I never actually tried this but it should work. I think they sell snail traps or maybe just search google or youtube for trapping snails in aquarium. ...Brian in PA Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: >So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. > >I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. > >I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this morning). > >What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. > >I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself while treating fin rot, oops). > >I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. They're so tiny. > >10gallon >80 degrees F > >-Ava > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54312	From: harry perry	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: How about.........Re: [AquaticLife] Snails in betta tank

Doing nothing!!!!!. Snails could be the best thing to happen to your fish. They help clean up your tank by eating excess fish food. They may also help you control your algae. Harry ________________________________ From: Brian <kbgwp@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails in betta tank   How about trying to trap them? I'd try putting a little piece of lettuce or something else snails might like in a pill bottle or something and leave it overnight sitting on the bottom of the tank. Weight it down if needed. Check it in the morning and remove it with any snails inside. Repeat until they are gone. I never actually tried this but it should work. I think they sell snail traps or maybe just search google or youtube for trapping snails in aquarium. ...Brian in PA Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: >So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. > >I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. > >I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this morning). > >What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. > >I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself while treating fin rot, oops). > >I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. They're so tiny. > >10gallon >80 degrees F > >-Ava > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54313	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Physical removal is your best bet (by trapping or otherwise). Getting the biggest ones out first is key because they are the ones laying 100s more eggs all the time. If there are none big enough to lay eggs, the little ones will grow big enough for you to find. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:38 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails in betta tank How about trying to trap them? I'd try putting a little piece of lettuce or something else snails might like in a pill bottle or something and leave it overnight sitting on the bottom of the tank. Weight it down if needed. Check it in the morning and remove it with any snails inside. Repeat until they are gone. I never actually tried this but it should work. I think they sell snail traps or maybe just search google or youtube for trapping snails in aquarium. ...Brian in PA Ava <aboswell91@... <mailto:aboswell91%40gmail.com> > wrote: >So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. > >I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. > >I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this morning). > >What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. > >I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself while treating fin rot, oops). > >I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. They're so tiny. > >10gallon >80 degrees F > >-Ava > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54314	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Ava, The snails are there to eat the overwhelming amount of food you are feeding the fish. They are very good for the fish and the tank cleanliness. Take out the larger ones but you must change some things in the tank. Bettas in the wild get their water changed many time a day. How often are you changing your tank water? What else is in the tank in with the Betta to eat the waste? Get some more live & rooted plants. That will help keep your water clean and make it a healthier place for your Betta. Your tank is too hot as well. Get back into the 70's. Charles H >Ava <aboswell91@... <mailto:aboswell91%40gmail.com> > wrote: > >>So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at >the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. >> >>I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. >> >>I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to >become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this >morning). >> >>What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? >I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. >> >>I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself >while treating fin rot, oops). >> >>I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a >LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. >They're so tiny. >> >>10gallon > >80 degrees F > >-Ava -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54315	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 12/11/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

As the others have mentioned the snails aren't always bad, but they can easily overpopulate if you over-feed your betta. My betta's have often eaten snails though, let him get a little hungry and he will quickly figure out that they are yummy and edible. They will suck the snail right out of their shells. Amber On 12/11/2012 6:55 AM, Ava wrote: > > So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the > lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail > snuck in. > > I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. > > I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to > become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank > this morning). > > What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the > snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of > fin rot. > > I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that > myself while treating fin rot, oops). > > I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are > a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them > all. They're so tiny. > > 10gallon > 80 degrees F > > -Ava > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54316	From: Jennifer Vaughan	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

What Amber says is true. The bettas will eat the snails. But I always had to crush them against the glass before they'd snack. Still, the snails seem to get crazy without increased water changes and regular good scrubbing of the glass (keeping things spic n span in the tank means no food for the snails). In my 20 & 40 gallon, Striped Botia finally solved any snail problem I might have had, sadly, I wouldn't put them in a 10 gallon. Good luck!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54317	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

The others have given mostly good advice here but I do want to mention that 80 is an appropriate temp for a betta, contrary to what Harry contributed. Bettas thrive best at temps from 80 - 84, not the 70's. The other thing I want to mention is that while a few snails isn't necessarily a bad thing as some of the others have pointed out, please do keep in mind that while they eat algae and left over food if there is any, they also contribute to the waste load in the tank and snails are quite dirty little creatures. For this reason population control is important. Snail poo can wreak havoc on water quality. As Donna mentioned, removing the larger snails will prevent them from laying eggs, and this will eventually catch you up on their population if you do a daily check and remove anything larger than the size of a BB. By the time they are pea sized they will be laying eggs, which can quickly get out of control even if you're not over feeding your fish as some here have implied. They will find plenty of natural food supply in spite of what appears to the human eye as lack of food. I raise ram's horn and trumpet snails as food for my cichlids. The warmer water will slow down their reproduction rate if these are ram's horn snails, which is what it sounds like. That is a good thing in your situation. In cold water they multiply faster and grow much larger. Some bettas will eat them some will not. The suggestion of crushing a few against the tank glass is a good one as it will tempt the betta to see it as food and if the betta doesn't consume it the other snails will. The suggestion of leaf lettuce also works quite well but there is no need for a pill bottle. Simply place a small piece of leaf lettuce in the tank and walk away. Go back a few hours later and you should see it covered in snails. At this point remove and replace it. Don't leave the lettuce in the tank longer than 6 - 8 hrs or it will begin to rot and pollute the water, and once it begins to rot the snails don't usually bother with eating it, either. I have used the lettuce method to collect the snails for feeding to my fish and it usually works well, but they prefer leaf lettuce instead of iceberg. Last I want to mention to be sure to collect and remove the snail shells from your tank also. They are high in calcium content and as they break down, enough of them in there at a time can cause the water to harden/pH to fluctuate over time. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > So a while ago I got a plant for my betta tank and even though the lady at the pet store as well as myself rinsed the plant, a snail snuck in. > > I left it, seemed to be just one, thought it was harmless. > > I've been seeing more and more though recently, and I don't want it to become a problem. (I saw about 4 hanging out on one side of the tank this morning). > > What is an easy safe way for my betta that will help me remove the snails? I don't want to be too aggressive, he just got over a case of fin rot. > > I no longer have a live plant to worry about killing (I did that myself while treating fin rot, oops). > > I would just try going in there and getting them myself, but there are a LOT of hiding places in this tank and I feel I will never get them all. They're so tiny. > > 10gallon > 80 degrees F > > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54318	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 12/12/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Count me among the fans of snails. Most are harmless and usually the only time they get out of hand is if you are overfeeding and leaving too much food for them to grow and multiply. In other words, a population of snails is not harmful, but an overpopulation means you need to change your habits of how you care for the tank.   If you want to try and control their numbers, just scoop out the larger ones as you see them. As others mentioned, bettas will sometimes eat snails. Sometime you can actually train them to know when they hear you reach in with a finger and crack one against the tank side, the sound is the trigger that supper is served!  :) Also, 80-degrees is fine for a betta. I don't think it is too hot. Despite usally being sold at room temperature in little bowls, bettas thrive at temperatures around 78-84-ish. So you are fine there. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54319	From: Noura	Date: 12/13/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Hello Dawn, You said "I raise ram's horn and trumpet snails as food for my cichlids." When I read that I was like "Aha!". Do you think this is the reason that my Yellow Labs tank substrate is full of empty MT snails shells??! They're eating them out of their shells? Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54320	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/14/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Noura, I would have to say it's possible but it's unlikely that your yellow labs are eating the MT snails. Yellow labs are primarily vegetarian to start with, and beyond that I have found very few fish species, including most puffers, who eat MT snails. Something not a lot of people probably know is that MT snails don't have red blood, whereas ram's horns snails do have red blood. From my years of research I have found that the red blood of the ram's horns is one thing that attracts other animals to them to feed on them, thus when crushing them against rocks or glass in a tank tends to bring most fish and even other snails right to them to feed on them when otherwise the other animals seem to mostly leave them alone. Something else I've discovered about the MT snails is about their body and the way it is attached and running through the shell is much more complex than that of most other snails... and the MT snail shell is also much harder than many of the other freshwater snail species, making it more difficult to break. Because of how complex their shell design is, it is much more difficult to remove them from their shell, such as we often see fish suck the ram's horns from their shells... not so easily done with MT snails. If you have a lot of them try taking a larger MT snails and using a blunt end tweezers to break apart the shell starting at the wide open edge where you see the foot of the snail, then gradually break away pieces of the shell so you can see the inner makeup and how the body fits into it. Then, if you have any available, do the same thing with a ram's horn. The difference is quit obvious this way. If you try this, take note also of the difference in color of the blood. Ram's horns bleed red, MT snails bleed a blue to blue/green color. And yet another thing I've observed is the shorter lifespan of the MT snails vs many other freshwater species I've kept and/or worked with. In tanks with fish that I know for sure were not eating any snails, I too find many empty shells... so many that it gets difficult to tell them apart from the gravel after a while. I have also observed the changes in pH and overall water hardness when there are a lot of the snail shells present in the tank. My hypothesis is that the MT snails have a shorter lifespan but reproduce in such numbers it is often hard to tell. They also grow very rapidly and can get quite large, over an inch long. I have had many that reach about 2 inches in length. I don't feed the MT snails to my cichlids, which, by the way are geophagus cichlids, not African. The MT snails help to keep up with the mess that the ram's horns make and they help to keep the ram's horn population a bit under control because where there isn't enough organic debris for them to feed on they fall back to ram's horns egg sacks for food. I also raise the ram's horns snails to feed my botia striata loaches, but the loaches don't touch the MT snails even when the MT snails are all that are left in the tank. I have observed many snail eating fish species who literally turn away from a MT snails once it bleeds, leaving me to believe they taste bad to the fish. I have done years of tests and experiments with this and always get the same results. My African cichlid tank houses a pair of daffodil brichardi cichlids along with a dwarf synodontis species of catfish. In 65 gallons those are the only 3 fish in the tank, have been the only 3 fish ever in that tank. Both snail species have been introduced to that tank and while it is literally crawling with MT snails, there are very few ram's horns ever in there. That tank gets 30% weekly water changes and is fed minimal food, yet the MT snails thrive while the ram's horns barely survive. I add no other food than the little bit of pellet food the fish get. The only live plants in that tank are naja grass and hair algae that I allow to grow naturally to supplement the fish for food source. Sometimes I just sit and watch that tank as the substrate literally moves all the time due to the number of MT snails in that tank. It's hard to tell what is gravel and what is snails. At night the MT snails all come out and climb up the glass sides of the tank and cover it so completely I can barely see in to find the fish, and then by morning they are all in the gravel and on the rocks again. They really are fascinating little critters. :-) I hope this helps a bit in understanding the snails? If there's any further info I can offer you about them please just ask. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hello Dawn, > > You said "I raise ram's horn and trumpet snails as food for my cichlids." > > When I read that I was like "Aha!". Do you think this is the reason that my > Yellow Labs tank substrate is full of empty MT snails shells??! They're > eating them out of their shells? > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54321	From: Ava	Date: 12/15/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

I jumped the gun before reading all these posts and went to good ol' youtube to see how others deal with snails. I saw horror stories of how the gravel appears to "move" and it's aaaallll snails. So to prevent that, what I did is I removed EVERYTHING from the tank, including the gravel. I regularly clean the tank and do water changes, so there weren't as many as I had thought, but still more than I would have liked. I boiled the gravel but decided to not use it again and bought new gravel instead. After thoroughly scrubbing the tank and doing about a 40% water change (which was due anyway), I put new (I rinsed it) gravel in. I took all decorations out and boiled them as well before putting them back in. I took the filter apart and cleaned that (there were a few in the filter, as well as some slimy egg things) before putting that back in. To prevent new tank syndrome, I put in a bacteria supplement with my water conditioner and a bit of aquarium salt. It's been two days and all seems well. I haven't seen a snail, all levels in the tank are good, betta seems content. :) -Ava --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Noura, > I would have to say it's possible but it's unlikely that your yellow labs are eating the MT snails. Yellow labs are primarily vegetarian to start with, and beyond that I have found very few fish species, including most puffers, who eat MT snails. Something not a lot of people probably know is that MT snails don't have red blood, whereas ram's horns snails do have red blood. From my years of research I have found that the red blood of the ram's horns is one thing that attracts other animals to them to feed on them, thus when crushing them against rocks or glass in a tank tends to bring most fish and even other snails right to them to feed on them when otherwise the other animals seem to mostly leave them alone. > > Something else I've discovered about the MT snails is about their body and the way it is attached and running through the shell is much more complex than that of most other snails... and the MT snail shell is also much harder than many of the other freshwater snail species, making it more difficult to break. Because of how complex their shell design is, it is much more difficult to remove them from their shell, such as we often see fish suck the ram's horns from their shells... not so easily done with MT snails. If you have a lot of them try taking a larger MT snails and using a blunt end tweezers to break apart the shell starting at the wide open edge where you see the foot of the snail, then gradually break away pieces of the shell so you can see the inner makeup and how the body fits into it. Then, if you have any available, do the same thing with a ram's horn. The difference is quit obvious this way. If you try this, take note also of the difference in color of the blood. Ram's horns bleed red, MT snails bleed a blue to blue/green color. > > And yet another thing I've observed is the shorter lifespan of the MT snails vs many other freshwater species I've kept and/or worked with. In tanks with fish that I know for sure were not eating any snails, I too find many empty shells... so many that it gets difficult to tell them apart from the gravel after a while. I have also observed the changes in pH and overall water hardness when there are a lot of the snail shells present in the tank. > > My hypothesis is that the MT snails have a shorter lifespan but reproduce in such numbers it is often hard to tell. They also grow very rapidly and can get quite large, over an inch long. I have had many that reach about 2 inches in length. > > I don't feed the MT snails to my cichlids, which, by the way are geophagus cichlids, not African. The MT snails help to keep up with the mess that the ram's horns make and they help to keep the ram's horn population a bit under control because where there isn't enough organic debris for them to feed on they fall back to ram's horns egg sacks for food. I also raise the ram's horns snails to feed my botia striata loaches, but the loaches don't touch the MT snails even when the MT snails are all that are left in the tank. > > I have observed many snail eating fish species who literally turn away from a MT snails once it bleeds, leaving me to believe they taste bad to the fish. I have done years of tests and experiments with this and always get the same results. > > My African cichlid tank houses a pair of daffodil brichardi cichlids along with a dwarf synodontis species of catfish. In 65 gallons those are the only 3 fish in the tank, have been the only 3 fish ever in that tank. Both snail species have been introduced to that tank and while it is literally crawling with MT snails, there are very few ram's horns ever in there. That tank gets 30% weekly water changes and is fed minimal food, yet the MT snails thrive while the ram's horns barely survive. I add no other food than the little bit of pellet food the fish get. The only live plants in that tank are naja grass and hair algae that I allow to grow naturally to supplement the fish for food source. Sometimes I just sit and watch that tank as the substrate literally moves all the time due to the number of MT snails in that tank. It's hard to tell what is gravel and what is snails. At night the MT snails all come out and climb up the glass sides of the tank and cover it so completely I can barely see in to find the fish, and then by morning they are all in the gravel and on the rocks again. They really are fascinating little critters. :-) > > I hope this helps a bit in understanding the snails? If there's any further info I can offer you about them please just ask. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@> wrote: > > > > Hello Dawn, > > > > You said "I raise ram's horn and trumpet snails as food for my cichlids." > > > > When I read that I was like "Aha!". Do you think this is the reason that my > > Yellow Labs tank substrate is full of empty MT snails shells??! They're > > eating them out of their shells? > > > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54322	From: Noura	Date: 12/16/2012
Subject: Re: Snails in betta tank

Thanks for all these information and observations, Dawn! I agree BIG DEAL with your observation about MTS not needing extra food to populate a tank. At one point, I was afraid of starving my fish and yet the MT snails were thriving! But the possible reason you're putting for seeing many empty shells in your tank (short lifespan, changes of pH and/or hardness) may not explain their presence in my Yellow Lab tank alone, and not in my other two tanks that also contain a good number of MTS s . The Cichlid tank in particular has a pretty steady chemistry of pH 8.2 and Hardness 16. I'm starting to wonder if the cichlids habit of digging gravel could be the reason for the empty shells to rise up to the substrate's surface because there are lighter than gravel, whilst the other tanks don't contain fish that dig that deep? Just a thought. By the way, I have a pair of Botia "Clown Loaches" in my 20G and they do a great job keeping the MTS population under control. I hardly ever see any except for just a few at night. I once had to take the loaches to the fish store because they got too big for my tank (3"), and the snail invasion was back in less than two months! I filmed a short video of my Loach snacking on a MT snail at the door of his cave J . Cute fish! Noura <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54320;_ylc=X3oDMTJyY3FkbG JqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0Mz IwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEzNTU1Njg5NTU-> Re: Snails in betta tank Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:02 am (PST) . Posted by: <mailto:dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...?subject=Re%3A%20Snails%20in%20betta%20 tank> "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" dawnshungryeyes4u2c Noura, I would have to say it's possible but it's unlikely that your yellow labs are eating the MT snails. Yellow labs are primarily vegetarian to start with, and beyond that I have found very few fish species, including most puffers, who eat MT snails. Something not a lot of people probably know is that MT snails don't have red blood, whereas ram's horns snails do have red blood. From my years of research I have found that the red blood of the ram's horns is one thing that attracts other animals to them to feed on them, thus when crushing them against rocks or glass in a tank tends to bring most fish and even other snails right to them to feed on them when otherwise the other animals seem to mostly leave them alone. Something else I've discovered about the MT snails is about their body and the way it is attached and running through the shell is much more complex than that of most other snails... and the MT snail shell is also much harder than many of the other freshwater snail species, making it more difficult to break. Because of how complex their shell design is, it is much more difficult to remove them from their shell, such as we often see fish suck the ram's horns from their shells... not so easily done with MT snails. If you have a lot of them try taking a larger MT snails and using a blunt end tweezers to break apart the shell starting at the wide open edge where you see the foot of the snail, then gradually break away pieces of the shell so you can see the inner makeup and how the body fits into it. Then, if you have any available, do the same thing with a ram's horn. The difference is quit obvious this way. If you try this, take note also of the difference in color of the blood. Ram's horns bleed red, MT snails bleed a blue to blue/green color. And yet another thing I've observed is the shorter lifespan of the MT snails vs many other freshwater species I've kept and/or worked with. In tanks with fish that I know for sure were not eating any snails, I too find many empty shells... so many that it gets difficult to tell them apart from the gravel after a while. I have also observed the changes in pH and overall water hardness when there are a lot of the snail shells present in the tank. My hypothesis is that the MT snails have a shorter lifespan but reproduce in such numbers it is often hard to tell. They also grow very rapidly and can get quite large, over an inch long. I have had many that reach about 2 inches in length. I don't feed the MT snails to my cichlids, which, by the way are geophagus cichlids, not African. The MT snails help to keep up with the mess that the ram's horns make and they help to keep the ram's horn population a bit under control because where there isn't enough organic debris for them to feed on they fall back to ram's horns egg sacks for food. I also raise the ram's horns snails to feed my botia striata loaches, but the loaches don't touch the MT snails even when the MT snails are all that are left in the tank. I have observed many snail eating fish species who literally turn away from a MT snails once it bleeds, leaving me to believe they taste bad to the fish. I have done years of tests and experiments with this and always get the same results. My African cichlid tank houses a pair of daffodil brichardi cichlids along with a dwarf synodontis species of catfish. In 65 gallons those are the only 3 fish in the tank, have been the only 3 fish ever in that tank. Both snail species have been introduced to that tank and while it is literally crawling with MT snails, there are very few ram's horns ever in there. That tank gets 30% weekly water changes and is fed minimal food, yet the MT snails thrive while the ram's horns barely survive. I add no other food than the little bit of pellet food the fish get. The only live plants in that tank are naja grass and hair algae that I allow to grow naturally to supplement the fish for food source. Sometimes I just sit and watch that tank as the substrate literally moves all the time due to the number of MT snails in that tank. It's hard to tell what is gravel and what is snails. At night the MT snails all come out and climb up the glass sides of the tank and cover it so completely I can barely see in to find the fish, and then by morning they are all in the gravel and on the rocks again. They really are fascinating little critters. :-) I hope this helps a bit in understanding the snails? If there's any further info I can offer you about them please just ask. Dawn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54323	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: Decisions, decisions.

It's been awfully quiet here as of late; probably people getting ready for the holidays. Tomorrow is tank cleaning day, and I am thinking of re-arranging some finned pets. Does anyone here have any experience keeping angels with tetras? Our juvenile angel...Archimedes.. archangel... :-)>>>... is getting nipped a bit I think. His upper and lower fins that make the backwards bow shaped arc, are no longer pointed; they are rounded, the poor dear. Now, do you think that they will stop that, once arc is big enough to look on the tetras as dinner? and if so; will his fins grow back? I ask, because I have a couple platys in the smaller tank, that I could switch with the tetras... there are a few in the big tank, and they get along well with arc. Thanks folks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54324	From: Noura	Date: 12/20/2012
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions.

Hello Al, Just my own experience: . The Angelfish's fins will grow back , assuming the nipping stops! . My Serpae Tetras nipped on my Angelfish's fins constantly, but my White Skirt Tetra didn't. I had to take the Serpae's out of the tank. . My Angelfish have never considered a fish bigger than 1" a potential food! . Angelfish through 10 yrs of fish keeping always got along well with livebearers, including the small Guppies, if they were big enough NOT to fit into the Angelfish's mouth. But anything smaller than 1/2" was in certain danger. Have a nice evening, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54325	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/22/2012
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions.

thanks noura. nice to know that arcs fins will grow back. I did the fish switcheroo yesterday. lots of fun netting rummynose tetras In a 40g without harming them or the other inhabitants. I don't know who it stressed more... me or the fish... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hello Al, > > Just my own experience: > > . The Angelfish's fins will grow back , assuming the nipping stops! > > . My Serpae Tetras nipped on my Angelfish's fins constantly, but my > White Skirt Tetra didn't. I had to take the Serpae's out of the tank. > > . My Angelfish have never considered a fish bigger than 1" a > potential food! > > . Angelfish through 10 yrs of fish keeping always got along well with > livebearers, including the small Guppies, if they were big enough NOT to fit > into the Angelfish's mouth. But anything smaller than 1/2" was in certain > danger. > > > > Have a nice evening, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54326	From: Paul	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Fluke-Like Creature

Does anybody know what this fluke-like creature is? I found a couple in my fry tank. It's not planaria. A direct link to a video is below. The creature is about 1 mm long and can contract and elongate when needed. From about it looks like a miniature halibut. Paul http://s1001.beta.photobucket.com/user/tempest999/media/fluke001_zps29a2d47a.mp4.html

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54327	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/25/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature

Hi Paul, Do you have a Macro setting on your camera that you could get a few still of this creature with please? This movie is really too out of focus to determine anything positive. John*<o)))< * On 25 December 2012 19:16, Paul <Plwg000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Does anybody know what this fluke-like creature is? I found a couple in my > fry tank. It's not planaria. > > A direct link to a video is below. The creature is about 1 mm long and can > contract and elongate when needed. From about it looks like a miniature > halibut. > > Paul > > > http://s1001.beta.photobucket.com/user/tempest999/media/fluke001_zps29a2d47a.mp4.html > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54328	From: annieg	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Hi I am new!

I am Ann and am a new member. We have had all types of tanks off and on for years but had a long break from them but now have the bug again. We live in So Ut but originally are from NC I do have a question. I do have a 5 gal tank with 1 female betta and a dwarf frog in it, now my problem lays in the fact that I don't remember how to get it to start cycling. I know that I started fishless but at some point I added some platties and did my water changes and checked my test kits reguarly. What are the pros and cons of starting the cycle with fish (which was common years and years ago) and the fishless way and how does one get this started? I just cannot remember. Thank you so much and I am looking forward to making some very nice fish friends Ann

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54329	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!

Cycling with fish harms the fish and cycling with ammonia does not. To cycle with ammonia, just add ammonia. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of annieg Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi I am new! I am Ann and am a new member. We have had all types of tanks off and on for years but had a long break from them but now have the bug again. We live in So Ut but originally are from NC I do have a question. I do have a 5 gal tank with 1 female betta and a dwarf frog in it, now my problem lays in the fact that I don't remember how to get it to start cycling. I know that I started fishless but at some point I added some platties and did my water changes and checked my test kits reguarly. What are the pros and cons of starting the cycle with fish (which was common years and years ago) and the fishless way and how does one get this started? I just cannot remember. Thank you so much and I am looking forward to making some very nice fish friends Ann [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54330	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!

Hi Ann, Welcome to the group. When doing a fishless cycle you don't have to put the animals though the stress of a cycling system with all the high levels of toxins that involves & once the tank is cycled then you can go ahead & put your intended stock into a near-perfect environment straight away. Here are a couple of links to fishless cycling pages that explain it all: http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm Any questions please ask & enjoy the rest of your Christmas! John*<o)))< * On 26 December 2012 07:17, annieg <crazycora1@...> wrote: > ** > > > I am Ann and am a new member. We have had all types of tanks off and on > for years but had a long break from them but now have the bug again. We > live in So Ut but originally are from NC I do have a question. I do have a > 5 gal tank with 1 female betta and a dwarf frog in it, now my problem lays > in the fact that I don't remember how to get it to start cycling. I know > that I started fishless but at some point I added some platties and did my > water changes and checked my test kits reguarly. What are the pros and cons > of starting the cycle with fish (which was common years and years ago) and > the fishless way and how does one get this started? I just cannot remember. > Thank you so much and I am looking forward to making some very nice fish > friends > Ann > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54331	From: Paul	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature

I killed them off. I'll try to get better pics next time I catch some. Paul --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > Do you have a Macro setting on your camera that you could get a few still > of this creature with please? This movie is really too out of focus to > determine anything positive. > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > On 25 December 2012 19:16, Paul <Plwg000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Does anybody know what this fluke-like creature is? I found a couple in my > > fry tank. It's not planaria. > > > > A direct link to a video is below. The creature is about 1 mm long and can > > contract and elongate when needed. From about it looks like a miniature > > halibut. > > > > Paul > > > > > > http://s1001.beta.photobucket.com/user/tempest999/media/fluke001_zps29a2d47a.mp4.html > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54332	From: rachell7	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: heater recommendations anyone?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a heater for my 20 gallon tank? What do most of you use? I have my 10 gallon tank in the room that is coolest in the summer and warmest in the winter and with the incandescent lights from the hood , the water temperature has stayed in a consistence range. I have started a new 20 gallon tank but the new tank has florescent lights and I need a heater for it. I have a Topfin heater I got with my 10 gallon tank but it's too hard to work with and I can't get a decent setting. The tank has cycled for 4 weeks now but I don't want to put any fish in until the water temp. is right and I'd like to get the heater set up and going before hand, I don't want to cook my fish! BTW I have platys, nothing exotic. Also any thoughts re: the LED lights? I've been looking at those as well since I am not a fan of florescent lights. TIA! Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54333	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fluke-Like Creature

It's a Leach. They move around like an inch worm. Attach at the tail and extend their head and grasp with the head suction cup and release their tail, etc, etc. They can be very specific as to their host. I get them all the time with Black Worm shipments. The make great fish food, its the black worms they feed on. Charles H >I killed them off. I'll try to get better pics next time I catch some. > >Paul > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Paul, >> >> Do you have a Macro setting on your camera that you could get a few still >> of this creature with please? This movie is really too out of focus to >> determine anything positive. >> > > John*<o)))< > > On 25 December 2012 19:16, Paul <Plwg000@...> wrote: >> > > > ** > > > Does anybody know what this fluke-like creature is? I found a >couple in my >> > fry tank. It's not planaria. >> > >> > A direct link to a video is below. The creature is about 1 mm long and can >> > contract and elongate when needed. From about it looks like a miniature >> > halibut. >> > > > > Paul > > > > > > >http://s1001.beta.photobucket.com/user/tempest999/media/fluke001_zps29a2d47a.mp4.html >> > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54334	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

I used a 100w in my 20g. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a heater for my 20 gallon tank? What do most of you use? I have my 10 gallon tank in the room that is coolest in the summer and warmest in the winter and with the incandescent lights from the hood , the water temperature has stayed in a consistence range. I have started a new 20 gallon tank but the new tank has florescent lights and I need a heater for it. I have a Topfin heater I got with my 10 gallon tank but it's too hard to work with and I can't get a decent setting. The tank has cycled for 4 weeks now but I don't want to put any fish in until the water temp. is right and I'd like to get the heater set up and going before hand, I don't want to cook my fish! BTW I have platys, nothing exotic. > > Also any thoughts re: the LED lights? I've been looking at those as well since I am not a fan of florescent lights. TIA! Rachell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54335	From: annieg	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!

Thank you all for answering my concerns. I started setting up my tank and washed all the flourite and was putting it in when I got 5 little danios for my tank. My problem now is that all I have is a 5 gal with a female betta, dwarf frog it is very well planted and has a penquin 100 filter,partial water chanages are done once a week. are the 5 little danios too many for my little tank till the big one is ready for fish or do I use them to start my tank which i feel bad about doing. Any suggestions would be very appreciated I will try to do more research before I ask as I know that can be a pain to answer the same questions over and over Ann --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Cycling with fish harms the fish and cycling with ammonia does not. To > cycle with ammonia, just add ammonia. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of annieg > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:18 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi I am new! > > > > > > I am Ann and am a new member. We have had all types of tanks off and on for > years but had a long break from them but now have the bug again. We live in > So Ut but originally are from NC I do have a question. I do have a 5 gal > tank with 1 female betta and a dwarf frog in it, now my problem lays in the > fact that I don't remember how to get it to start cycling. I know that I > started fishless but at some point I added some platties and did my water > changes and checked my test kits reguarly. What are the pros and cons of > starting the cycle with fish (which was common years and years ago) and the > fishless way and how does one get this started? I just cannot remember. > Thank you so much and I am looking forward to making some very nice fish > friends > Ann > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54336	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: new filter?

hi all i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. anyone have any experience with these? thanks. al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54337	From: Reba	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Fancy Guppy Tank

Hi everyone. I have a 45 gallon community peaceful tank that has about 6 fancy male guppies along with other companions. Temp 78, 4 month old tank, all tests in normal range, change 10-20% water weekly. Use Water Conditioner, Stress Coat and Stress Xyme. I seem to have a problem keeping the fancy guppies alive. One by one, and only one at a time, they get ill and within days lose their entire tail into strings and then die. It is a fast procedure. I replace it with a new guppy and then another one does the same thing, and so on. I have lost and replaced about 5 or 6. All other fish are fine. What can be happening to my guppies. Are they sensitive to the chemicals or something? I wanted this tank to be mostly guppies but I can't seem to keep them alive. Is it tail rot? Frustrated and need help. Reba PS, the tank is planted with mostly live plants with an inch subtrate and then gravel on top of that. Water is clear. No smell. Separated a few and tried meds for fin rot but they died on the same schedule as if I hadn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54338	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 12/26/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank

50 to 70% water changes are recommended. The Organic Compounds are not accounted for in any of the Pet Store Test kits. Changing the water is the only way to be sure you are keeping things clean!! Water conditioners only mask the problems. LOOK AT THE FISH! >Hi everyone. I have a 45 gallon community peaceful tank that has >about 6 fancy male guppies along with other companions. Temp 78, 4 >month old tank, all tests in normal range, change 10-20% water >weekly. Use Water Conditioner, Stress Coat and Stress Xyme. I seem >to have a problem keeping the fancy guppies alive. One by one, and >only one at a time, they get ill and within days lose their entire >tail into strings and then die. It is a fast procedure. I replace >it with a new guppy and then another one does the same thing, and so >on. I have lost and replaced about 5 or 6. All other fish are >fine. What can be happening to my guppies. Are they sensitive to >the chemicals or something? I wanted this tank to be mostly guppies >but I can't seem to keep them alive. Is it tail rot? Frustrated >and need help. > >Reba PS, the tank is planted with mostly live plants with an inch substrate and then gravel on top of that. Water is clear. No smell. Separated a few and tried meds for fin rot but they died on the same schedule as if I hadn't.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54339	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

Hi Rachell, The aquarium heater is the one apparatus which the fish are totally dependent upon to stay alive, as it's essential that the fish remain within the temperature range they need. All others, as lights, filters and aeration devices, are really not needed for them to live as long as regular water maintenance procedures are followed. As such, the heater (or heating system) is the sole item that should never be scrimped on when purchased. It has long been established, that 2 Watts per gallon is needed to raise the temperature 5 degrees above the ambient (room) temperature in which the aquarium is being kept. So, as an example, if the room is kept at 68 o during the Winter, and you want to keep the water temperature at 78 o, this 10 degree difference will require 4 Watts per gallon to raise and keep the water at that temperature -- or, 80 Watts for a 20 gallon tank.. As a 20 gallon tank is never kept completely filled to the very top, and as the substrate and rock (and driftwood, etc.) will also displace water, a 75 Watt heater is sufficient -- provided it's of good quality. Much more than 75 Watts can cook your fish if the heater ever malfunctions in sticking on. I also notice that in Winter, you keep the room warm, and while you haven't stated this very important information needed to figure the size of your heater, if you do keep the room at 73 o to 74 o, I certainly would recommend you get a heater any larger than this -- but again, I must stress that you should get a quality heater as cheaper ones can be inferior in not maintaining the proper temperature. I you feel you need to use 100 Watts of heating, I'd definitely recommend that you get two 50 Watt heaters to share the work load. In this way, if one sticks on, it can't cook the fish by itself and the other one will remain off since it will be set to do so when the right temperature is reached (or exceeded). Likewise, if one heater fails to come on, the other one will ensure the temperature remains above the bottom line for the fishes' temperature requirements. Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable on-line supply houses. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54340	From: o1bigtenor	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:42 AM, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: snip > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> If you would be so kind as to offer some kind of list of those 'more reputable on-line supply houses' I would be very grateful!! D

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54341	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

D, In addition to Eheim-Jagor and Visi-Therm, a few other quality brand heaters include Fluval, Azoo, Aqueon and Hydor. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54342	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

D, As for reputable on line supply houses, those three that I'm aware of as being entirely reliable include Drs. Foster & Smith, That Fish Place and Big Al's. You should be able to Google them for phone numbers and/or email addresses. Have them send you a free catalog while you're up there. Most offer free shipping on orders over $49, and shipping of medications is always free no matter what they total. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54343	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

I have changed all of my heaters over to the Aqueon pro series. I like that there is no glass to break, they work incredibly well, and are not as expensive as some of the others mentioned. They are black (plastic material) on the outside and have a light to indicate when they are on vs when they are off, and they have numbers for adjusting the temp which takes a lot of the guess work out of reaching the proper temp. A thermometer is still needed to make sure you're right where you need to be in regards to water temp, but the Aqueon pro series heaters are one I've never had a problem with reading the proper temp based on what is printed for numbers on the heater itself. I've been using them since they first came out on the market and wouldn't use any other brand again... ever. Another benefit to these is that not only is there no glass to break if they are dropped or put through rapid temp changes, but if water evaporates and exposes part of the heater at any point, during water changes or even in cases of a leaking tank... it doesn't damage the heater like it would the other brands listed. If you save your receipt (file it away) there is a lifetime warranty on these heaters as long as you can prove proof of purchase. So if anything should ever go wrong with it, simply contact the company and they'll take care of replacing it. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > D, > > In addition to Eheim-Jagor and Visi-Therm, a few other quality brand > heaters include Fluval, Azoo, Aqueon and Hydor. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54344	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice for saltwater. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > hi all > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > anyone have any experience with these? > thanks. > al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54345	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank

Reba, can you tell us what other fish are in the tank with the guppies? Any other symptoms such as loss of color, loss of appetite, lessened activity level, etc.? Anything that might seem different or a bit off, however small or trivial it may seem to you, is important to note for us. There are some illnesses and diseases that tend to affect guppies while not bothering other species of fish, and there are some that are exclusive to live bearers (guppies, platys, mollys, etc) so that is surely something that should be investigated. Guppies are also prone to genetic problems due to inbreeding. I am also wondering if you are getting all of your guppies from the same place? Do you have test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH that you can post please? Can you get any clear photos of a guppy as soon as you notice a problem? A picture of the entire tank, too? This does not sound like a waste issue, but it's important to test the water not just to see if that is the case, but also to make sure it is safe for any types of medications that you may need to use. Please note that guppies are sensitive to many types of medication, so please use caution and get some advice before selecting one. Fish stores are not the place to go for that kind of advice. We can help you with that right here but we need much more info than has been provided thus far. Do you have a quarantine tank? If not, you may want to invest in one before you purchase anymore guppies. You may be able to isolate the problem and prevent it from spreading by putting the new fish into quarantine. I don't suggest buying more guppies until you get this problem resolved. I would also suggest moving the current guppies into a quarantine tank alone so if you need to medicate them you can do so safely, and it will also be much easier to monitor their condition and progress as well as eliminate the possibility that another fish in the main tank is preying on them. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Reba" <reba_curtis@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone. I have a 45 gallon community peaceful tank that has about 6 fancy male guppies along with other companions. Temp 78, 4 month old tank, all tests in normal range, change 10-20% water weekly. Use Water Conditioner, Stress Coat and Stress Xyme. I seem to have a problem keeping the fancy guppies alive. One by one, and only one at a time, they get ill and within days lose their entire tail into strings and then die. It is a fast procedure. I replace it with a new guppy and then another one does the same thing, and so on. I have lost and replaced about 5 or 6. All other fish are fine. What can be happening to my guppies. Are they sensitive to the chemicals or something? I wanted this tank to be mostly guppies but I can't seem to keep them alive. Is it tail rot? Frustrated and need help. > > Reba > > PS, the tank is planted with mostly live plants with an inch subtrate and then gravel on top of that. Water is clear. No smell. Separated a few and tried meds for fin rot but they died on the same schedule as if I hadn't. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54346	From: weantdrive	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

I haven't seen That Pet Place with $49 free shipping in months. They appear to be set at $99. I like the Visa-Therm heaters. They are reliable, easy to adjust and visual you can see when the heater is on. Paul --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > D, > > As for reputable on line supply houses, those three that I'm aware of as > being entirely reliable include Drs. Foster & Smith, That Fish Place and Big > Al's. You should be able to Google them for phone numbers and/or email > addresses. Have them send you a free catalog while you're up there. Most offer > free shipping on orders over $49, and shipping of medications is always free > no matter what they total. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54347	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

Petco, Petsmart, Marineland, Foster and Smith, and I think there might be yet another I’ve done business with. I think petsmart might be a bit irregular with how long it takes the product to reach you. But any of the better stores around you probably sell them. Try a Petco. then try Petsmart, and the upper end fish stores near you are likely to have them.. From: o1bigtenor Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:42 AM, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: snip > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> If you would be so kind as to offer some kind of list of those 'more reputable on-line supply houses' I would be very grateful!! D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54348	From: Dora Smith	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?

I’d really go for Eheim-Jagor or Visi-therm; there’s a serious quality difference there. The others tend to die on you. They don’t cost that much for two 50 watts to heat a 20 gallon, if that’s what you’re doing. Dora From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Bulk] Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? D, In addition to Eheim-Jagor and Visi-Therm, a few other quality brand heaters include Fluval, Azoo, Aqueon and Hydor. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54349	From: harry perry	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?

As you do your research, consider.......submersibles offer better heat distribution. When water levels are lower due to evaporation or a breeding tank you won't ruin your heater. Better heaters, when they fail, they simple shut off rather than cook the fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?   Petco, Petsmart, Marineland, Foster and Smith, and I think there might be yet another I’ve done business with. I think petsmart might be a bit irregular with how long it takes the product to reach you. But any of the better stores around you probably sell them. Try a Petco. then try Petsmart, and the upper end fish stores near you are likely to have them.. From: o1bigtenor Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:42 AM, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: snip > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> If you would be so kind as to offer some kind of list of those 'more reputable on-line supply houses' I would be very grateful!! D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54350	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?

Another vote for the aqueon pro. Visi Therm you have to be careful to turn off the heater 15 minutes before PWC. Aqueon pro does this automatically. I find the local fish stores cost 30% more than online (or even 100% more) so I will also vote for Ray’s recommended vendors…I usually price all three and order stuff every 6 months to get the free shipping. For large tanks I love the Hydor in-line heaters. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? As you do your research, consider.......submersibles offer better heat distribution. When water levels are lower due to evaporation or a breeding tank you won't ruin your heater. Better heaters, when they fail, they simple shut off rather than cook the fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? Petco, Petsmart, Marineland, Foster and Smith, and I think there might be yet another I’ve done business with. I think petsmart might be a bit irregular with how long it takes the product to reach you. But any of the better stores around you probably sell them. Try a Petco. then try Petsmart, and the upper end fish stores near you are likely to have them.. From: o1bigtenor Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:42 AM, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: snip > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> If you would be so kind as to offer some kind of list of those 'more reputable on-line supply houses' I would be very grateful!! D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54351	From: harry perry	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Aqueon pro 150 watt. Re: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recomm

30.57 At Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-Heaters-Submersible-Aquarium-150-Watt/dp/B003C5TMU4 Harry ________________________________ From: Donna Ransome <djransome@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:31 PM Subject: RE: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone?   Another vote for the aqueon pro. Visi Therm you have to be careful to turn off the heater 15 minutes before PWC. Aqueon pro does this automatically. I find the local fish stores cost 30% more than online (or even 100% more) so I will also vote for Ray’s recommended vendors…I usually price all three and order stuff every 6 months to get the free shipping. For large tanks I love the Hydor in-line heaters. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:17 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: D...........Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? As you do your research, consider.......submersibles offer better heat distribution. When water levels are lower due to evaporation or a breeding tank you won't ruin your heater. Better heaters, when they fail, they simple shut off rather than cook the fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@... <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? Petco, Petsmart, Marineland, Foster and Smith, and I think there might be yet another I’ve done business with. I think petsmart might be a bit irregular with how long it takes the product to reach you. But any of the better stores around you probably sell them. Try a Petco. then try Petsmart, and the upper end fish stores near you are likely to have them.. From: o1bigtenor Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] heater recommendations anyone? On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:42 AM, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: snip > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> If you would be so kind as to offer some kind of list of those 'more reputable on-line supply houses' I would be very grateful!! D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54352	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... its only a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a filter as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... odd... because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the water trickle.. any suggestions? does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the ac's for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I wonder if there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've tried all I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. :-)>>> but i'm not into them... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice for saltwater. > > Hope this helps. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > hi all > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > anyone have any experience with these? > > thanks. > > al. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54353	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it should be quiet. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... its only a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a filter as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... odd... because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the water trickle.. any suggestions? does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the ac's for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I wonder if there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've tried all I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. :-)>>> but i'm not into them... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice for saltwater. > > Hope this helps. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > hi all > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > anyone have any experience with these? > > thanks. > > al. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54354	From: rachell7	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

Thanks everyone! Wow! Who would have thought getting a heater could be so complicated! Everyone has pointed out a lot of things I had not considered and I appreciate that. The last thing I want to do is kill off my fish. I'll take everyone's advice and do some research and make a decision. Meanwhile my fish will have to be content to stay in their 10 gallon tank for a while longer. I'd like to get the heater and get it regulated first! I do agree with looking at Petco before Petsmart. I have had better results with buying equipment from them then Petsmart. And I had never thought to look at Amazon and other on-line and catalog companies! Thank you for all your help! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Rachell, > > The aquarium heater is the one apparatus which the fish are totally > dependent upon to stay alive, as it's essential that the fish remain within the > temperature range they need. All others, as lights, filters and aeration > devices, are really not needed for them to live as long as regular water > maintenance procedures are followed. As such, the heater (or heating system) is the > sole item that should never be scrimped on when purchased. > > It has long been established, that 2 Watts per gallon is needed to raise > the temperature 5 degrees above the ambient (room) temperature in which the > aquarium is being kept. So, as an example, if the room is kept at 68 o during > the Winter, and you want to keep the water temperature at 78 o, this 10 > degree difference will require 4 Watts per gallon to raise and keep the water > at that temperature -- or, 80 Watts for a 20 gallon tank.. As a 20 gallon > tank is never kept completely filled to the very top, and as the substrate and > rock (and driftwood, etc.) will also displace water, a 75 Watt heater is > sufficient -- provided it's of good quality. Much more than 75 Watts can cook > your fish if the heater ever malfunctions in sticking on. > > I also notice that in Winter, you keep the room warm, and while you haven't > stated this very important information needed to figure the size of your > heater, if you do keep the room at 73 o to 74 o, I certainly would recommend > you get a heater any larger than this -- but again, I must stress that you > should get a quality heater as cheaper ones can be inferior in not maintaining > the proper temperature. > > I you feel you need to use 100 Watts of heating, I'd definitely recommend > that you get two 50 Watt heaters to share the work load. In this way, if one > sticks on, it can't cook the fish by itself and the other one will remain > off since it will be set to do so when the right temperature is reached (or > exceeded). Likewise, if one heater fails to come on, the other one will > ensure the temperature remains above the bottom line for the fishes' temperature > requirements. > > Today's best heater technology seems to be in the submersible heaters, and > Eheim Jagor heaters are one of the best. A very close runner-up for a > quality heater is Marineland's Visi-Therm heater. Two heaters will naturally be > more of an expense than first anticipated, but it's cheap insurance when > considering losing a tank of fish if using a single heater cooks or doesn't > provide any heat at all. Best prices are often found on the more reputable > on-line supply houses. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54355	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

Paul, It appears that, That Fish Place (That Pet Place) has rescinded their previous free shipping offer for orders over $49 -- as you've brought to our attention. They recently had that lower shipping offer in place to become competitive with Drs Foster - Smith, but with going up on line to their site just now after seeing your post, I find that they've now gone to free shipping only after $99, as you've stated. Thanks for mentioning this -- it's something new. I did see that they presently have what appears to be a 65% holiday discount on everything on their on-line site, so they still might be quite competitive although I didn't check that sale out completely. Could still be worth looking into, depending on what that discount applies to. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54356	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; but ill check around. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it should > be quiet. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... its only > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a filter > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... odd... > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > water trickle.. any suggestions? > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the ac's > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I wonder if > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've tried all > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. :-)>>> > but i'm not into them... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice > for saltwater. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > hi all > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > thanks. > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54357	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; but ill check around. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it should > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... its only > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a filter > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... odd... > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the ac's > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I wonder if > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've tried all > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. :-)>>> > > but i'm not into them... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice > > for saltwater. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > thanks. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54358	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/27/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

If you're getting that kind of noise then I'd have to guess there is something going on with the filter because it shouldn't be making that kind of noise. Check your impeller. Is it mucked up? Is the shaft still straight? Can you see any wear/tear to it? Does it look like it's "bouncing" around in there? It may be as simple as replacing the impeller... which is easy to do. If you do decide another h.o.b filter is needed, the newer Aqueon h.o.b filters are awesome. The pump sits below the water line and it's deep enough that unless you severely neglect a tank and let the water level drop way too low, there is no noise except the water trickle and even that is pretty quiet. It's easy maintenance, easy cartridge change, and enough space for a bit of extra media if you choose to use any. The other thing I like is the telescopic intake tube. Easy to adjust anywhere you want it. Access to the impeller for maintenance and/or replacement is also very easy compared to most other h.o.b filters because of how it's designed. Awesome filters for a reasonable price. I have slowly but surely replaced all of my h.o.b's with the Aqueons. The only tanks not running these are the reef tanks, and both of those are sump systems. I used to be a fan of the whisper, penguin, and a.c h.o.b's until I tried one of these. I'll never go back. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; but ill check around. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it should > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... its only > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a filter > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... odd... > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the ac's > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I wonder if > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've tried all > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. :-)>>> > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for needing > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're cheaply > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and all 3 > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good choice > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank beside > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would be > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > thanks. > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54359	From: Patrick	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: heater recommendations anyone?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > Who would have thought getting a heater could be so complicated! Well not really complicated. I think everyone is simply pointing out that if there is one place to NOT go cheap on setting up an aquarium, it is with the heater. It is the one item that can actively kill your fish if it fails. Avoid the cheap clip on non-submersible heaters. It isn't if they will fail but WHEN they will fail. And this is usually by sticking ON and never turning off so you get to come home to cooked fish. And not going cheap does not mean you have to spend a lot either. Ebo-Jager heaters (now owned by Eheim I believe) have always been a dependable work horse in the hobby and you can get those mail order for about $20-ish depending on the size, which is about the same price as you pay in a retail store for a cheap clip on one. The 30-gallon tank right behind me has been running the same Jager heater for about 15 years now and still going strong. Cheers, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54360	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Hi Al, Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for their O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in consistency to Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. John*<o)))<* On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; > but ill check around. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters�keep the water level up to the lip and it > should > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... > its only > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a > filter > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... > odd... > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the > ac's > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > wonder if > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've > tried all > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. > :-)>>> > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > needing > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're > cheaply > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and > all 3 > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good > choice > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank > beside > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would > be > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > thanks. > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54361	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Hi I am new!

Hi Ann, How long had your tank been set up when you put the Danios in? If it was new with just the Betta & Dwarf Frog then you will have some problems with water quality as your tank cycles. Is it possible to return the Danios to the store & wait until your tank is cycled? Can you let us know what your water test results are please? John*<o)))<* On 27 December 2012 00:53, annieg <crazycora1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank you all for answering my concerns. I started setting up my tank and > washed all the flourite and was putting it in when I got 5 little danios > for my tank. My problem now is that all I have is a 5 gal with a female > betta, dwarf frog it is very well planted and has a penquin 100 > filter,partial water chanages are done once a week. are the 5 little danios > too many for my little tank till the big one is ready for fish or do I use > them to start my tank which i feel bad about doing. Any suggestions would > be very appreciated I will try to do more research before I ask as I know > that can be a pain to answer the same questions over and over > Ann > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Cycling with fish harms the fish and cycling with ammonia does not. To > > cycle with ammonia, just add ammonia. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of annieg > > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:18 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Hi I am new! > > > > > > > > > > > > I am Ann and am a new member. We have had all types of tanks off and on > for > > years but had a long break from them but now have the bug again. We live > in > > So Ut but originally are from NC I do have a question. I do have a 5 gal > > tank with 1 female betta and a dwarf frog in it, now my problem lays in > the > > fact that I don't remember how to get it to start cycling. I know that I > > started fishless but at some point I added some platties and did my water > > changes and checked my test kits reguarly. What are the pros and cons of > > starting the cycle with fish (which was common years and years ago) and > the > > fishless way and how does one get this started? I just cannot remember. > > Thank you so much and I am looking forward to making some very nice fish > > friends > > Ann > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54362	From: Reba	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank

Thank you Dawn and Charles for replying. As Charles recommended, I changed 50% of the water. Also pored boiling water over all utensils and let them dry thoroughly. Responding now to more specific questions from Dawn. > Reba, can you tell us what other fish are in the tank with the guppies? Any other symptoms such as loss of color, loss of appetite, lessened activity level, etc.? Anything that might seem different or a bit off, however small or trivial it may seem to you, is important to note for us. REPLY: Other fish include 1 mild mannered Betta, 5 cardinals, 3 tetras, 3 danios, 2 corys and a pregnant sword I'm moving after she gives birth. No other loses except guppies. Guppy Illness is swift, healthy one day, weak the next, dead the next. > I am also wondering if you are getting all of your guppies from the same place? REPLY. Mostly, yes. But so are all the other fish that have no problem. > > Do you have test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH that you can post please? REPLY: Easy Strip results are all in safe range except Alkalinity (KH) which is low. But, I don't know what this is nor how to fix it. Can you get any clear photos of a guppy as soon as you notice a problem? A picture of the entire tank, too? REPLY: I had a guppy start dying when I wrote the first post and he was dead by the time you replied. I will try to get the next one, hopefully there won't be a next one. I added a photo album of photos of the tank and the fish in it and some of the currently healthy guppies. I think the album needs approval, but when it is approved, it is Reba's Guppy Tank. > Fish stores are not the place to go for that kind of advice. We can help you with that right here but we need much more info than has been provided thus far. REPLY: Thank you so much for this support. > > Do you have a quarantine tank? If not, you may want to invest in one before you purchase anymore guppies. REPLY: I had one but turned it into a guppy fry tank. I'd have to invest in another at this point. THANK YOU! Reba > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Reba" <reba_curtis@> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone. I have a 45 gallon community peaceful tank that has about 6 fancy male guppies along with other companions. Temp 78, 4 month old tank, all tests in normal range, change 10-20% water weekly. Use Water Conditioner, Stress Coat and Stress Xyme. I seem to have a problem keeping the fancy guppies alive. One by one, and only one at a time, they get ill and within days lose their entire tail into strings and then die. It is a fast procedure. I replace it with a new guppy and then another one does the same thing, and so on. I have lost and replaced about 5 or 6. All other fish are fine. What can be happening to my guppies. Are they sensitive to the chemicals or something? I wanted this tank to be mostly guppies but I can't seem to keep them alive. Is it tail rot? Frustrated and need help. > > > > Reba > > > > PS, the tank is planted with mostly live plants with an inch subtrate and then gravel on top of that. Water is clear. No smell. Separated a few and tried meds for fin rot but they died on the same schedule as if I hadn't. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54363	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/28/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

thanks john. I've done some more reading on it... some say safe some no.... so better safe... than sorry.... i'll check at my lfs. for lube. I wonder if a tiny dab of olive oil from a q-tip would do the trick?.... its organic at least...hmmm. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to > your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for their > O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in consistency to > Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters > > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; > > but ill check around. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it > > should > > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... > > its only > > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a > > filter > > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... > > odd... > > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the > > ac's > > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > > wonder if > > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've > > tried all > > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. > > :-)>>> > > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > > needing > > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're > > cheaply > > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and > > all 3 > > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good > > choice > > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank > > beside > > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would > > be > > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54364	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Al, The vaseline won't hurt the fish if you're just using it to lube up the O ring, however, it can eat through some types of rubber used for some O rings. We used to use it all the time until I discovered it ate through certain types of rubber... oops, lol. Silicone lubricant (which is the same stuff as the Eheim lube John mentioned) can be found at most hardware stores without the hefty Eheim price tag. I'd skip olive oil because it's too thin... doesn't work well. Best of luck to you! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > thanks john. > I've done some more reading on it... some say safe some no.... > so better safe... than sorry.... i'll check at my lfs. for lube. > I wonder if a tiny dab of olive oil from a q-tip would do the trick?.... its organic at least...hmmm. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to > > your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for their > > O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in consistency to > > Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > > > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b filters > > > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a store; > > > but ill check around. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip and it > > > should > > > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like overkill... > > > its only > > > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as silent a > > > filter > > > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would like.... > > > odd... > > > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except for the > > > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I like the > > > ac's > > > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > > > wonder if > > > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; I've > > > tried all > > > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest solution. > > > :-)>>> > > > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > > > needing > > > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. They're > > > cheaply > > > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister filters are > > > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, but last > > > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these 3, and > > > all 3 > > > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a good > > > choice > > > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little tank > > > beside > > > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 would > > > be > > > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54365	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: Fancy Guppy Tank

Reba, Weighing the information you've provided there are 2 things I'd like to mention. 1st, those strip tests are known to be horribly inaccurate and are a waste of money. You'll want to get yourself a liquid test kit instead. Having accurate test results can mean the difference between life and death in an aquarium. API sells a good freshwater master kit that includes all of the needed tests for a reasonable price. 2nd, I'd like to ask you to really watch your tank closely for the next few days, especially after the lights go out for the night. Watch your "mild mannered" betta in regards to the guppies. Bettas, even those with mild personalities, are so well known for their aggression towards guppies because the fancy guppy tails, to them, represents another male betta, which means fight for territory. What you're describing doesn't sound like an illness as much as it sounds like aggression within the tank... the trick will be to find the culprit. Cardinals can also be quite nippy as well as danios, but my first guess would be your betta. All it would take is for a guppy to enter the betta's claimed territory and that would instigate a fight as the betta defends his chosen territory from what he will see as another male betta with flowing fins. When 2 male bettas fight they tend to shred each other's fins, which weakens their opponent by preventing it from swimming well. This would also explain why you're only losing 1 guppy at a time... whichever strays into betta territory at a given time. Watch the tank from a bit of a distance so you don't distract the fish and can see what they are really doing when you're not looking. Let us know what you observe please? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Reba" <reba_curtis@...> wrote: > > Thank you Dawn and Charles for replying. As Charles recommended, I changed 50% of the water. Also pored boiling water over all utensils and let them dry thoroughly. Responding now to more specific questions from Dawn. > > > Reba, can you tell us what other fish are in the tank with the guppies? Any other symptoms such as loss of color, loss of appetite, lessened activity level, etc.? Anything that might seem different or a bit off, however small or trivial it may seem to you, is important to note for us. > > REPLY: Other fish include 1 mild mannered Betta, 5 cardinals, 3 tetras, 3 danios, 2 corys and a pregnant sword I'm moving after she gives birth. No other loses except guppies. Guppy Illness is swift, healthy one day, weak the next, dead the next. > > > I am also wondering if you are getting all of your guppies from the same place? > > REPLY. Mostly, yes. But so are all the other fish that have no problem. > > > > Do you have test results for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH that you can post please? > > REPLY: Easy Strip results are all in safe range except Alkalinity (KH) which is low. But, I don't know what this is nor how to fix it. > > Can you get any clear photos of a guppy as soon as you notice a problem? A picture of the entire tank, too? > > REPLY: I had a guppy start dying when I wrote the first post and he was dead by the time you replied. I will try to get the next one, hopefully there won't be a next one. I added a photo album of photos of the tank and the fish in it and some of the currently healthy guppies. I think the album needs approval, but when it is approved, it is Reba's Guppy Tank. > > > Fish stores are not the place to go for that kind of advice. We can help you with that right here but we need much more info than has been provided thus far. > > REPLY: Thank you so much for this support. > > > > Do you have a quarantine tank? If not, you may want to invest in one before you purchase anymore guppies. > > REPLY: I had one but turned it into a guppy fry tank. I'd have to invest in another at this point. > > THANK YOU! > > Reba > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Reba" <reba_curtis@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi everyone. I have a 45 gallon community peaceful tank that has about 6 fancy male guppies along with other companions. Temp 78, 4 month old tank, all tests in normal range, change 10-20% water weekly. Use Water Conditioner, Stress Coat and Stress Xyme. I seem to have a problem keeping the fancy guppies alive. One by one, and only one at a time, they get ill and within days lose their entire tail into strings and then die. It is a fast procedure. I replace it with a new guppy and then another one does the same thing, and so on. I have lost and replaced about 5 or 6. All other fish are fine. What can be happening to my guppies. Are they sensitive to the chemicals or something? I wanted this tank to be mostly guppies but I can't seem to keep them alive. Is it tail rot? Frustrated and need help. > > > > > > Reba > > > > > > PS, the tank is planted with mostly live plants with an inch subtrate and then gravel on top of that. Water is clear. No smell. Separated a few and tried meds for fin rot but they died on the same schedule as if I hadn't. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54366	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Hi Dawn, Thanks for the info that regular silicone lubricant is the same as the expensive Eheim stuff, that's exactly why I love these forums! A couple of other cost saving measures for everyone [in case they don't know already] is that 100% pure cooking rock, pickling or sea salt does exactly the same as the aquarium salt from the LFS but at a fraction of the price-but make certain it says 100% on the ingredients. Another great tip is to use regular open weave nylon pot scrubbers in your filters, the ratio of good bacteria per cubic inch is comparable with the best on the market, they cost next to nothing & are virtually indestructible. John*<o)))< * On 29 December 2012 20:05, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > ** > > > Al, > The vaseline won't hurt the fish if you're just using it to lube up the O > ring, however, it can eat through some types of rubber used for some O > rings. We used to use it all the time until I discovered it ate through > certain types of rubber... oops, lol. > > Silicone lubricant (which is the same stuff as the Eheim lube John > mentioned) can be found at most hardware stores without the hefty Eheim > price tag. > > I'd skip olive oil because it's too thin... doesn't work well. > > Best of luck to you! > > Dawn > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > thanks john. > > I've done some more reading on it... some say safe some no.... > > so better safe... than sorry.... i'll check at my lfs. for lube. > > I wonder if a tiny dab of olive oil from a q-tip would do the trick?.... > its organic at least...hmmm. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to > > > your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for > their > > > O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in > consistency to > > > Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > > > > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > > > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b > filters > > > > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a > store; > > > > but ill check around. > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters�keep the water level up to the lip > and it > > > > should > > > > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like > overkill... > > > > its only > > > > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as > silent a > > > > filter > > > > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would > like.... > > > > odd... > > > > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except > for the > > > > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I > like the > > > > ac's > > > > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > > > > wonder if > > > > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; > I've > > > > tried all > > > > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest > solution. > > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > > > > needing > > > > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. > They're > > > > cheaply > > > > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister > filters are > > > > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, > but last > > > > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these > 3, and > > > > all 3 > > > > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a > good > > > > choice > > > > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little > tank > > > > beside > > > > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 > would > > > > be > > > > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54367	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: male betta help

Hi i have two male bettas in a ten gallon tank with a divider in between them. One of them is loosing his tale fins he was fine when i got him. The other one is perfectly healthy and happy. The only thing i can figure is it's tail rot. I have changed the filter, cleaned the tank, and changed the water. Please help. Emma

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54368	From: Al Keep	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

ya, thanks Dawn. I love the info gained here also John. I thought that silicone had to be aqua safe... maybe that's just the silicone to stick together glass? I've also read that kosher salt is aqua safe, and cheaper. I'll grab some silicone lube from the hardware store... I don't know if it will come into contact with rubber seals... its for the impeller shaft.. I guess it would have to be sealed at its base... but if not... hey, my little dear pets are worth a few bucks... and so is peace and quiet while my wife and I are trying to sleep. :-)>>> I love having a nocturnal tank beside the bed... its so nice to watch the corries in the blue light and listen to the waterfall noise while falling asleep. thanks for your help. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > Thanks for the info that regular silicone lubricant is the same as the > expensive Eheim stuff, that's exactly why I love these forums! A couple of > other cost saving measures for everyone [in case they don't know already] > is that 100% pure cooking rock, pickling or sea salt does exactly the same > as the aquarium salt from the LFS but at a fraction of the price-but make > certain it says 100% on the ingredients. Another great tip is to use > regular open weave nylon pot scrubbers in your filters, the ratio of good > bacteria per cubic inch is comparable with the best on the market, they > cost next to nothing & are virtually indestructible. > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > On 29 December 2012 20:05, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Al, > > The vaseline won't hurt the fish if you're just using it to lube up the O > > ring, however, it can eat through some types of rubber used for some O > > rings. We used to use it all the time until I discovered it ate through > > certain types of rubber... oops, lol. > > > > Silicone lubricant (which is the same stuff as the Eheim lube John > > mentioned) can be found at most hardware stores without the hefty Eheim > > price tag. > > > > I'd skip olive oil because it's too thin... doesn't work well. > > > > Best of luck to you! > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > thanks john. > > > I've done some more reading on it... some say safe some no.... > > > so better safe... than sorry.... i'll check at my lfs. for lube. > > > I wonder if a tiny dab of olive oil from a q-tip would do the trick?.... > > its organic at least...hmmm. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > > > Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to > > > > your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for > > their > > > > O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in > > consistency to > > > > Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > > > > > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > > > > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b > > filters > > > > > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a > > store; > > > > > but ill check around. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip > > and it > > > > > should > > > > > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > On > > > > > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like > > overkill... > > > > > its only > > > > > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as > > silent a > > > > > filter > > > > > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would > > like.... > > > > > odd... > > > > > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except > > for the > > > > > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > > > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I > > like the > > > > > ac's > > > > > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > > > > > wonder if > > > > > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; > > I've > > > > > tried all > > > > > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest > > solution. > > > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > > > > > needing > > > > > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. > > They're > > > > > cheaply > > > > > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister > > filters are > > > > > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, > > but last > > > > > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these > > 3, and > > > > > all 3 > > > > > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a > > good > > > > > choice > > > > > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little > > tank > > > > > beside > > > > > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 > > would > > > > > be > > > > > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54369	From: Wendie	Date: 12/29/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

That's a fairly big area for him to swim in plus seeing the other betta will keep him active. That will sometimes cause the fins to break down. Wendie -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emma Caccia Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:24 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] male betta help Hi i have two male bettas in a ten gallon tank with a divider in between them. One of them is loosing his tale fins he was fine when i got him. The other one is perfectly healthy and happy. The only thing i can figure is it's tail rot. I have changed the filter, cleaned the tank, and changed the water. Please help. Emma ------------------------------------ AquaticLife 7 A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. 74/`7.88.><((((:>.74/`7.88.74/`7.8><((((:> 8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..><((((:> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <:((((><.74/`7.88.74/`7.8<:((((><8.74/`7.8. , .74/`7..<:((((><74/`7.88. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54370	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

Emma, Have you ever wondered why they also call Bettas by the (very common) name of "Siamese Fighting Fish?" If you haven't heard of this, then I must recommend you buy a good book in aquarium fishes, as you mustn't have any basic knowledge of these and other aquarium fishes. As it can be expected that male Bettas (and very often, females too) will fight when put together, it's more than likely that the dominent male Betta is tearing up the fins of the other male Betta. I'd advise you separate them before one kills the other. Years ago, in Siam -- and probably still today, in Cambodia and Burma -- people would place bets on these fish for the outcome of fights between these fish, much like other people place bets on dog fights and cock fights. It's well known common knowledge that any two male Bettas will fight each other when placed together; it's their nature to do so. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54371	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

Emma, Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54372	From: sevenspringss@wmconnect.com	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

Emma, One other thing; is the divider porous or solid? That is, are there holes in the divider to allow the free flow of water or is it just a complete sheet of material preventing any intermixing of water? If the latter, this could explain why one fish may possibly be diseased when the other is unaffected -- the water parameters may be less than ideal in which the unhealthy looking fish resides, expecially if there's little filtration on that side of the divider. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54373	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

They divider is porous so that couldn't be it. Is it possible one just isn't very healthy. The one loosing the tail fins is from petco the other one is from petsmart. Emma ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:32 AM EST sevenspringss@... wrote: >Emma, > >One other thing; is the divider porous or solid? That is, are there holes >in the divider to allow the free flow of water or is it just a complete >sheet of material preventing any intermixing of water? If the latter, this >could explain why one fish may possibly be diseased when the other is unaffected >-- the water parameters may be less than ideal in which the unhealthy >looking fish resides, expecially if there's little filtration on that side of the >divider. > >Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54374	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

They are separated with a divider in between them so i know that isn't the problem. I have a book and it says nothing in there about them loosing there tail fins. Emma ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:24 AM EST sevenspringss@... wrote: >Emma, > >Have you ever wondered why they also call Bettas by the (very common) name >of "Siamese Fighting Fish?" If you haven't heard of this, then I must >recommend you buy a good book in aquarium fishes, as you mustn't have any basic >knowledge of these and other aquarium fishes. As it can be expected that >male Bettas (and very often, females too) will fight when put together, it's >more than likely that the dominent male Betta is tearing up the fins of the >other male Betta. I'd advise you separate them before one kills the other. >Years ago, in Siam -- and probably still today, in Cambodia and Burma -- >people would place bets on these fish for the outcome of fights between these >fish, much like other people place bets on dog fights and cock fights. It's >well known common knowledge that any two male Bettas will fight each other >when placed together; it's their nature to do so. > >Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54375	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it either. Emma ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... wrote: >Emma, > >Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the >divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? > >Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54376	From: Ava	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Planted Tank?

Hey folks. I recently got my hands on a 10 gallon tank. Because I don't have enough free outlets in my house to have a tank with fish, I was curious if I could make it a planted tank. I'm new to aquatic plants, so I'd go simple, but I was curious if I could pull it off without a filter? I understand I'd need a light, and I can manage that. I could even manage an air stone--just hook it up to my current pump for my goldfish tank. Think it could work? -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54377	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

Its not uncommon for bettas to come home already infected with the bacteria that starts fin rot. As it progresses, fungus takes over and feeds on the dead tissue left behind by the bacteria, which is when we start to see loss of fins appearing. The best and safest treatment for fin rot in bettas is Jungle's Fungus Clear. It's safe to use for an extended period of time and safe for the other fish that isn't showing symptoms. At the same time as using the Fungus Clear, methylene blue can also be used to help combat the fungus. There are a number of different ways this treatment can be carried out, so if you want more details please just ask. Also be aware that methylene blue can stain the silicone seals in any aquarium, so you may want to treat the sick fish in a quarantine tank instead of dosing the entire main tank. I've noted Ray's concerns about the 2 fish getting together and do agree that you need to make sure this isn't happening. I've seen many situations over the yrs where dividers are used and bettas jump over them, especially at night... and then jump back to their side of the tank after the battle is lost so as to get away from the other fish. You will want to make sure that this isn't possibly happening with your fish. Even with a cover over the tank, if there is a gap of 1 inch or more above that divider, that's all it takes for a fish to get over the top of it. Bettas are prolific jumpers and have surprisingly good aim when attempting such things, but this issue isn't exclusive to just bettas... there are many species of fish who have this ability. When working at the store we used to be amazed at how easily some of the fish were able to jump from tank to tank and work their way around the entire fish room in this fashion... feeding on other fish in the process. Red tail and rainbow sharks are another species that are well known for "traveling" like this. Best of luck to you and your fish. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: > > > No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it either. > Emma > > > > ------------------------------ > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... wrote: > > >Emma, > > > >Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the > >divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? > > > >Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54378	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: new filter?

Glad I could help. I hope you're able to resolve your problem this easily and without having to spend a ton of money. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > ya, thanks Dawn. I love the info gained here also John. > I thought that silicone had to be aqua safe... > maybe that's just the silicone to stick together glass? > I've also read that kosher salt is aqua safe, and cheaper. > I'll grab some silicone lube from the hardware store... I don't > know if it will come into contact with rubber seals... its for the impeller shaft.. I guess it would have to be sealed at its base... > but if not... hey, my little dear pets are worth a few bucks... > and so is peace and quiet while my wife and I are trying to sleep. > :-)>>> I love having a nocturnal tank beside the bed... its so nice to watch the corries in the blue light and listen to the waterfall noise while falling asleep. > > thanks for your help. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > Thanks for the info that regular silicone lubricant is the same as the > > expensive Eheim stuff, that's exactly why I love these forums! A couple of > > other cost saving measures for everyone [in case they don't know already] > > is that 100% pure cooking rock, pickling or sea salt does exactly the same > > as the aquarium salt from the LFS but at a fraction of the price-but make > > certain it says 100% on the ingredients. Another great tip is to use > > regular open weave nylon pot scrubbers in your filters, the ratio of good > > bacteria per cubic inch is comparable with the best on the market, they > > cost next to nothing & are virtually indestructible. > > > > John*<o)))< > > > > * > > > > > > On 29 December 2012 20:05, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < > > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > The vaseline won't hurt the fish if you're just using it to lube up the O > > > ring, however, it can eat through some types of rubber used for some O > > > rings. We used to use it all the time until I discovered it ate through > > > certain types of rubber... oops, lol. > > > > > > Silicone lubricant (which is the same stuff as the Eheim lube John > > > mentioned) can be found at most hardware stores without the hefty Eheim > > > price tag. > > > > > > I'd skip olive oil because it's too thin... doesn't work well. > > > > > > Best of luck to you! > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > thanks john. > > > > I've done some more reading on it... some say safe some no.... > > > > so better safe... than sorry.... i'll check at my lfs. for lube. > > > > I wonder if a tiny dab of olive oil from a q-tip would do the trick?.... > > > its organic at least...hmmm. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > > > > > Be careful with using Vaseline, it may contain stuff that is harmful to > > > > > your tank & the inhabitants. I know Eheim make a lubricating gel for > > > their > > > > > O ring seals that is aquatic safe-it's very similar stuff in > > > consistency to > > > > > Vaseline & you can get it from your LFS. > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28 December 2012 02:16, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just read that vaseline on the impeller shaft can help...hmmm... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nope.... the waterfall noise doesn't bother me... its nice to fall > > > > > > asleep to... it the vibration noise that's so maddening. > > > > > > > I have found on the eheim web site that they make small h.o.b > > > filters > > > > > > that they claim to be silent... I don't recall ever seeing them in a > > > store; > > > > > > but ill check around. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aqua Clear for HOB filters keep the water level up to the lip > > > and it > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > be quiet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:43 PM > > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: new filter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks donna.. the thing is that those others seem like > > > overkill... > > > > > > its only > > > > > > > > a 10 g tank... but its beside the bed.. so I would like as > > > silent a > > > > > > filter > > > > > > > > as possible.... the little a.c. hob is noisier that I would > > > like.... > > > > > > odd... > > > > > > > > because the ac hob I have on the 40g is virtually silent except > > > for the > > > > > > > > water trickle.. any suggestions? > > > > > > > > does anyone make a good silent little hob?... its a shame.. I > > > like the > > > > > > ac's > > > > > > > > for reliability and ease of maintenance...maybe I got a dud? or I > > > > > > wonder if > > > > > > > > there is a way to modify it to rid it of the vibration noise; > > > I've > > > > > > tried all > > > > > > > > I can think of....of course earplugs would be the cheapest > > > solution. > > > > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > > > but i'm not into them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > > > > > > > "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my favorite choice of filter because they're well known for > > > > > > needing > > > > > > > > more repair over time than almost any other on the market. > > > They're > > > > > > cheaply > > > > > > > > made, cheap materials. The current top 3 brands of canister > > > filters are > > > > > > > > Eheim, Rena, and Cascade. All equally as quiet as the Fluval, > > > but last > > > > > > > > longer, made better, and less issues overall with any of these > > > 3, and > > > > > > all 3 > > > > > > > > are also suitable for use in saltwater as well. Fluval... not a > > > good > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > for saltwater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > > > > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi all > > > > > > > > > > i'm thinking of getting a fluval 106 canister for the little > > > tank > > > > > > beside > > > > > > > > the bed... the a.c. 20 h.o.b. is noisy.. was thinking the fl.106 > > > would > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > quieter.. theyre on sale in a post x-mas sale. > > > > > > > > > > anyone have any experience with these? > > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54379	From: kbgwp	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: Planted Tank?

I had a 10 gallon planted tank that had a homemade air-powered filter run off of another air pump that was shared with another tank. The filter was similar to the old style box filter and was made out of a glass jar with a piece of PVC pipe and a couple elbows. The pipe was placed in the jar and an air line was placed at the bottom so the bubbles went through the pipe. Then, I just filled the jar with aquarium gravel and let it bubble away. Might not be the most professional way to go but the colored gravel didn't look too bad and it actually worked. This tank had no fish, no heater, and the lights were regular compact fluorescent lights with cheap shop type reflectors. The plants grew great and the filter kept the water clear and the surface agitated. Another benefit to this type of filter is that it won't suck tiny fish or other creatures in like a hang on back filter might. Mine had pond life (snails, bugs) in with the plants and they all did OK together although the plants might have just grown fast enough to outgrow the tiny snails feeding. Larger snails (like Apple snails) have cleared a tank of plants and algae so fast I ended up buying them food to keep them from starving so you probably shouldn't mix snails and plants but I was just playing anyway. ...Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > Hey folks. I recently got my hands on a 10 gallon tank. Because I don't have enough free outlets in my house to have a tank with fish, I was curious if I could make it a planted tank. I'm new to aquatic plants, so I'd go simple, but I was curious if I could pull it off without a filter? I understand I'd need a light, and I can manage that. I could even manage an air stone--just hook it up to my current pump for my goldfish tank. > Think it could work? > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54380	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 12/30/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

That makes me think of when I had two demasoni in a divided tank. I caught them together they were jumping over the divider above the water line but under the cover (about ½” of space) so they could fight. Did it a bunch of times. Grrr. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emma Caccia Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:40 AM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] male betta help No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it either. Emma ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: >Emma, > >Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the >divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? > >Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54381	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

They can't be jumping over if they did they would turn into fish sticks. Emma. ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 2:20 PM EST dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: >Its not uncommon for bettas to come home already infected with the bacteria that starts fin rot. As it progresses, fungus takes over and feeds on the dead tissue left behind by the bacteria, which is when we start to see loss of fins appearing. > >The best and safest treatment for fin rot in bettas is Jungle's Fungus Clear. It's safe to use for an extended period of time and safe for the other fish that isn't showing symptoms. At the same time as using the Fungus Clear, methylene blue can also be used to help combat the fungus. There are a number of different ways this treatment can be carried out, so if you want more details please just ask. Also be aware that methylene blue can stain the silicone seals in any aquarium, so you may want to treat the sick fish in a quarantine tank instead of dosing the entire main tank. > > >I've noted Ray's concerns about the 2 fish getting together and do agree that you need to make sure this isn't happening. I've seen many situations over the yrs where dividers are used and bettas jump over them, especially at night... and then jump back to their side of the tank after the battle is lost so as to get away from the other fish. You will want to make sure that this isn't possibly happening with your fish. Even with a cover over the tank, if there is a gap of 1 inch or more above that divider, that's all it takes for a fish to get over the top of it. Bettas are prolific jumpers and have surprisingly good aim when attempting such things, but this issue isn't exclusive to just bettas... there are many species of fish who have this ability. When working at the store we used to be amazed at how easily some of the fish were able to jump from tank to tank and work their way around the entire fish room in this fashion... feeding on other fish in the process. Red tail and rainbow sharks are another species that are well known for "traveling" like this. > >Best of luck to you and your fish. > >Dawn > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Emma Caccia <horserider283@...> wrote: >> >> >> No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it either. >> Emma >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >> >Emma, >> > >> >Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the >> >divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? >> > >> >Ray </HTML> >> > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54382	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 12/31/2012
Subject: Re: male betta help

Only problem is if they tried that they'd be ish sticks. Lol. Emma. ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:02 PM EST Donna Ransome wrote: >That makes me think of when I had two demasoni in a divided tank. I caught >them together…they were jumping over the divider above the water line but >under the cover (about ½” of space) so they could fight. Did it a bunch of >times. Grrr. > > > > _____ > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Emma Caccia >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:40 AM >To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] male betta help > > > > > > >No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it >either. >Emma > >------------------------------ >On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... ><mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > >>Emma, >> >>Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the >>divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? >> >>Ray </HTML> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54383	From: Emma Caccia	Date: 1/2/2013
Subject: Re: male betta help

Ok so woke up this morning went downstairs and looked in the tank the perfectly health one without the fins falling off was dead. Other one is swimming around and looks fine. Treated tank with API betta fix yesterday and just did it again a few minutes ago. Am going to go to petsmart tomorrow with water sample from them to test. Emma ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:02 PM EST Donna Ransome wrote: >That makes me think of when I had two demasoni in a divided tank. I caught >them together…they were jumping over the divider above the water line but >under the cover (about ½” of space) so they could fight. Did it a bunch of >times. Grrr. > > > > _____ > >From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >Behalf Of Emma Caccia >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:40 AM >To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] male betta help > > > > > > >No it's never come loose they couldn't swim around it under it or over it >either. >Emma > >------------------------------ >On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 6:27 AM EST sevenspringss@... ><mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > >>Emma, >> >>Are you saying that you've never dislodged your Bettas' divider? Has the >>divider ever come loose on its own to allow these two fish to mix? >> >>Ray </HTML> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54384	From: Ava	Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland

Driving the other day, I saw a big sign saying AQUARIUM ADVENTURE and Petland. I decided to look it up--I would love another option for somewhere to shop other than Petco/Petsmart. I currently have a 30 gallon tank with 3 goldfish. One little telescope eye (about an inch long including fins), a black moor (about 1.5 inches including fins), and a new addition: a big fat fantail who is about 3-4 inches including fins. I've been looking to upgrade their tank size, it's getting a bit cozy in there. And then I read THIS on the website of the store: http://www.aquariumadventure.com/AquariumAdventureTipSheet4.htm They SUPPORT goldfish bowls. Does this bother anyone else?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54385	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/3/2013
Subject: Re: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland

Hi Ava, Yes it bothers me too-the opening sentence on that page alludes to it being of the utmost importance to no keep Goldfish with tropical fish while promoting keeping them in bowls. This is exactly the sort of half baked information that leads to the death of thousands of these beautiful fish every year, you notice that all the photos accompanying that article are most definitely NOT taken in bowls. It goes on to say that most of their fish are pond raised-even worse then, to put a creature that is used to the space of a pond into the confines of a bowl. I will have a read through it more thoroughly tomorrow & see how many more errors it contains-it is really not in the best interests of the store to give out misleading & damaging information, especially as the majority of buyers will probably be impressionable kids. I will get in touch & politely set them straight on a number of issues. Depending on their response [if I get one] we will see whether they set profit above cruelty but I think we already know the answer to that one unfortunately. John*<o)))<* On 3 January 2013 16:36, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > Driving the other day, I saw a big sign saying AQUARIUM ADVENTURE and > Petland. I decided to look it up--I would love another option for somewhere > to shop other than Petco/Petsmart. > > I currently have a 30 gallon tank with 3 goldfish. One little telescope > eye (about an inch long including fins), a black moor (about 1.5 inches > including fins), and a new addition: a big fat fantail who is about 3-4 > inches including fins. > > I've been looking to upgrade their tank size, it's getting a bit cozy in > there. > > And then I read THIS on the website of the store: > > http://www.aquariumadventure.com/AquariumAdventureTipSheet4.htm > > They SUPPORT goldfish bowls. > Does this bother anyone else? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54386	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/8/2013
Subject: Re: "Aquarium Adventure" by Petland

Hello again Ava , Looking at the websites of the various Aquarium Adventure stores it doesn't seem like they have a public email address so unfortunately I cannot get in touch with them to take issue about their Goldfish information & as I am in the UK it is not possible for me to call them. Perhaps next time you are in your local outlet you can take them to task about it? I realise that is is most likely a marketing ploy because like most unscrupulous sellers they regard Goldfish as an expendable commodity to grab people into the hobby. Once several Goldfish have perished in a bowl or absurdly small tank then they can offer them some 'real' fish but of course 'real' fish come at a 'real' price!! Of course, their is the small chance that someone will actually heed the info & amend it if something was offered-worth a try? Let me know what you think. John*<o)))< * On 3 January 2013 16:36, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > Driving the other day, I saw a big sign saying AQUARIUM ADVENTURE and > Petland. I decided to look it up--I would love another option for somewhere > to shop other than Petco/Petsmart. > > I currently have a 30 gallon tank with 3 goldfish. One little telescope > eye (about an inch long including fins), a black moor (about 1.5 inches > including fins), and a new addition: a big fat fantail who is about 3-4 > inches including fins. > > I've been looking to upgrade their tank size, it's getting a bit cozy in > there. > > And then I read THIS on the website of the store: > > http://www.aquariumadventure.com/AquariumAdventureTipSheet4.htm > > They SUPPORT goldfish bowls. > Does this bother anyone else? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54387	From: Andy Mills	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: Long nose snails

Hello, about 6 weeks ago I bought 2 snails for my tropical tank which were marked as long nose snails. However, I don't seem to be able to find much information about them. In shape they almost look like big trumpet snails, cone shaped. The shells are very dark, either very dark brown or black. One has got a bluish tail whilst the others looks more white. They appear to behave very much like trumpet snails and spend most of their time living in the gravel. So far they seem to be doing well. Does anyone know anything about these snails? I'm expecting over the next few months, now that we can no longer get apple snails here in the UK, to see lots of other different types of snails in the shops. The problem is that half the time the shop staff don't seem to know very much about them and sometimes it can be very difficult to find information on the web as so many either have similar names or are called different things by different people/countries.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54388	From: Ava	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: Submerging magnet in aquarium?

So I bought a really pretty geisha-pattern material to use as an aquarium backdrop in my asian-style tank. However, I couldn't figure out a good way to hold it to the tank (Tape is ugly and doesn't hold). So my mother bought me 2 small magnetic algae cleaners to hold it to the tank. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Regent-Aqua-Tech-Magnetic-Algae-Remover-Pets/10313134 I put them towards the top, but there's a little bit of them underwater. If the magnet is always in the water (even just a bit) could that be bad for the water or hurt my fish? Thanks, Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54389	From: Al Keep	Date: 1/12/2013
Subject: just an update.

"Arc" our angels fins are growing back nicely, since the rummynose tetras were moved to the other tank. I bought a little tube of fluval silicone at my not so l.f.s... it was only $3. I put a little dab on the impeller shaft with a Q-tip. for three days... nuthin... I thought it was a total failure.. then I wake up in the morning to silence; and it's been quiet for days. I'm thinkin that tube should last me for months....just a little dab every week or two. its certainly a cheap fix if anyone has a noisy aquaclear h.o.b. the tank beside the bed is so quiet now that I can hardly keep my eyes op....

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54390	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails

Can you post any clear photos of the snails you bought that were listed as "long nose"? Can you tell us how big they are? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Andy Mills wrote: > > Hello, about 6 weeks ago I bought 2 snails for my tropical tank which > were marked as long nose snails. However, I don't seem to be able to > find much information about them. In shape they almost look like big > trumpet snails, cone shaped. The shells are very dark, either very dark > brown or black. One has got a bluish tail whilst the others looks more > white. They appear to behave very much like trumpet snails and spend > most of their time living in the gravel. So far they seem to be doing > well. Does anyone know anything about these snails? I'm expecting over > the next few months, now that we can no longer get apple snails here in > the UK, to see lots of other different types of snails in the shops. > The problem is that half the time the shop staff don't seem to know very > much about them and sometimes it can be very difficult to find > information on the web as so many either have similar names or are > called different things by different people/countries. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54391	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Submerging magnet in aquarium?

There should be no harm to the water or the fish. Magnetic scrapers are made to be kept on/in the tank. I have magnetic scrapers that have been in/on my various tanks for years, the only time they're removed is to clean them once in a while and then they go back in place. Hope this helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" wrote: > > So I bought a really pretty geisha-pattern material to use as an aquarium backdrop in my asian-style tank. > However, I couldn't figure out a good way to hold it to the tank (Tape is ugly and doesn't hold). > So my mother bought me 2 small magnetic algae cleaners to hold it to the tank. > http://www.walmart.com/ip/Regent-Aqua-Tech-Magnetic-Algae-Remover-Pets/10313134 > > I put them towards the top, but there's a little bit of them underwater. > If the magnet is always in the water (even just a bit) could that be bad for the water or hurt my fish? > > Thanks, > Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54392	From: Amber Berglund	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails

Are there stripes on these snail's shells or are they a solid color? A picture would help the most of course, they can be posted to the group website for everyone to look at. Amber On 1/12/2013 7:53 AM, Andy Mills wrote: > > Hello, about 6 weeks ago I bought 2 snails for my tropical tank which > were marked as long nose snails. However, I don't seem to be able to > find much information about them. In shape they almost look like big > trumpet snails, cone shaped. The shells are very dark, either very dark > brown or black. One has got a bluish tail whilst the others looks more > white. They appear to behave very much like trumpet snails and spend > most of their time living in the gravel. So far they seem to be doing > well. Does anyone know anything about these snails? I'm expecting over > the next few months, now that we can no longer get apple snails here in > the UK, to see lots of other different types of snails in the shops. > The problem is that half the time the shop staff don't seem to know very > much about them and sometimes it can be very difficult to find > information on the web as so many either have similar names or are > called different things by different people/countries. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54393	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/13/2013
Subject: Re: just an update.

Hi Al, Glad to hear Arc has got his full finnage back, I'm sure he feel better for it! Also pleased to hear you have sorted your noisy motor. I've had plenty of experience with noisy pumps & find that only a tiny percentage of the problem is actually faulty parts. 99 times out of 100 is it down to vibration, oscillation or simply air in the barrel. The vibration & oscillation problems seem to be mainly in the drive chain rather than the actual pump for instance as soon as I wedged a piece of bubble wrap between one of my hoses & my UV steriliser I had an almost silent tank. I have 2 pumps in my wet/dry & often when I restart them after a cleaning session they make an awful din but this is usually corrected by switching them on & off momentarily, two or three times which clears out the small amount of air in the barrel. John*<o)))< * On 13 January 2013 02:35, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > "Arc" our angels fins are growing back nicely, since the rummynose tetras > were moved to the other tank. > I bought a little tube of fluval silicone at my not so l.f.s... it was > only $3. I put a little dab on the impeller shaft with a Q-tip. > for three days... nuthin... I thought it was a total failure.. then I wake > up in the morning to silence; and it's been quiet for days. > I'm thinkin that tube should last me for months....just a little dab every > week or two. > its certainly a cheap fix if anyone has a noisy aquaclear h.o.b. > the tank beside the bed is so quiet now that I can hardly keep my eyes > op.... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54394	From: Ava	Date: 1/16/2013
Subject: Low-tech fish tanks?

Hello, I'm wanting to add another fish tank to my collection. However, I've only got one outlet open! I have an empty 10gallon tank that I would like to fill somehow though I'm not sure with what. Because I only have one outlet, I'd have to choose one of the following: heater, filter, or light. I don't need an air pump, I could connect it to my current one. Water temp would probably be around 65-68F at room temp where I'd have the tank. Would I be able to do something like that? Ideas on kinds of fish? Maybe an axolotl? Thanks. -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54395	From: angelasfeathers	Date: 1/16/2013
Subject: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/

Hi Harry and everyone, I am so happy to be here ..I am new but have worked with the science of behavior with many animal species including herps . Can someone help us with what is going on my daughter's fish have all died in just a few days at her fountain in Malibu, CA. The "pond" became completely dark after all the rain and I told her to take out just 1/4 of the water and refill it with clean hose water. Unfortunately I think she said she actually took out and put back in 3/4 new water from the hose. They started to die the very next day so far it seems to have stopped and the rest are still OK ? When she originally filled it she used hose water and let it sit for 24 hours or longer. We don't know what to do the pool is 4x 8 and does have a pump of some sort ( I have to find out what kind it is) ' At the fish store where she got the fish the person who works there told her she should have left the water black even though the fish could never be seen ...as it was it's own ecosystem . I completely understand the concept of a natural ecosystem ....but I am not convinced this is a true one and not convinced this is what caused the die off? I would love to know what and why this has happened to these poor beautiful fish :( . Did putting water from the hose in without airing it do this? PS. The white belly and the large gold fish have died ..but so far the Japanese big fish and a few of the gold fish are still alive and so far seem OK __________________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes .... people too. ~ California Wildlife Center,volunteer wildlife warrior. www.cawildlife.org

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54396	From: Noura	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?

Hello Ava, With the possibility of using an air tube, you can connect it to a sponge filter or air driven box filter, and use the available power outlet for a heater. This way you can choose any type of fish that is small enough for a 10 gallon. Don't put a wooden hood, and the room's light or a nearby lamp may provide enough light for the tank. But if you want a power filter, and your room temperature never drops below 65F, then you can keep swordtails without a heater (I've seen them listed under a 64-82F range). I would personally go with the first option (a sponge fitler and a heater) and not risk a sudden temperature drop that would put my fish into danger. Take care, Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ava Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Low-tech fish tanks? Hello, I'm wanting to add another fish tank to my collection. However, I've only got one outlet open! I have an empty 10gallon tank that I would like to fill somehow though I'm not sure with what. Because I only have one outlet, I'd have to choose one of the following: heater, filter, or light. I don't need an air pump, I could connect it to my current one. Water temp would probably be around 65-68F at room temp where I'd have the tank. Would I be able to do something like that? Ideas on kinds of fish? Maybe an axolotl? Thanks. -Ava [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54397	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/

Angela, By "hose water," I'm presuming you mean water from your municiplal water supply rather than from a private well -- even though you weren't that specific. Almost every public water supplier adds some form of bactericide to their water, which is toxic to fishes. I did notice that you said that when this pond was originally filled, that the water sat for 24 hours or longer -- but again, you weren't specific in saying exactly how long after this that the fish were added, nor do you say how many months (or years) ago this pond was originally filled.. Most water suppliers that add a bactericide (and that's most of them) now use a product called Chloramine, a combination of ammonia and chlorine which locks up as a compound and doesn't dissipate very fast at all. This would be lethal to fish for at least three weeks or better. While your water supply may have this compound but at a smaller than normal concentration -- explaining why these other fishes are still living -- iit's more probable that your tap (hose) water contains just Chlorine, which dissipates slowly over 24 to 48 hours. It's more likely that your tap water has this Chlorine especially if this pond was originally filled fairly recently, and if the fishes were added to this pond soon after allowing this water to sit for 24 hours (or more). Still, Chlorine in itself is very toxic to fish -- which is the reason for allowing it to sit for at least 24 hours so that t has time to dissipate. As 3/4 of this pond may well have been refilled with chlorinated water with fish being in this water, this would explain the fish deaths that were seen. After 24 hours, and with the Chlorine mostly dissipated, the stronger fish were fortunate enough to survive. I can't say what the black water occurred from, but placing carbon in the filer would probably have removed it. When doing partial water changes, they should generally be restricted to about 25% of the pond -- and then, a water conditioner container chlorine remover needs to be added at this same time. Call your water company to see exactly which bactericide they add to their water, and if they add Chloramine get a water conditioner having a dechloraminator in it.. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54398	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?

Ava, While I'm not advocating overloading your one outlet, is there any reason why you couldn't install one of those three-way outlets into this outlet? It would allow for up to three plugs and as you wouldn't need more than a 50 Watt heater for your 10 gallon tank, and as an air pump to operate an inside bottom filter only uses less than 10 Watts (more like 8 Watts, or even 4 Watts for smaller pumps), there's no reason why you couldn't use this single plug for everything. You wouldn't need any more than an 18 Watt single-tube fluorescent light either. Total power useage -- 75 to 80 Watts -- like a medium size incandescent light bulb. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54399	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/

Hi Angela, Sorry to hear of your losses, as Ray said it probably is something to do with the chlorine in the tap water but I am wondering about the advice you got from the store. Unfortunately the stores often give poor advice because their primary objective is to sell stuff rather than promote good conditions for your fish. One of the most important things to have is a water test kit, the results can tell us so much about what is happening in the system so please let us know your results as this will greatly help to keep the surviving fish alive if there are still some problems going on. You say the problem happened in just a few days but I am not clear whether you mean the system is new or not-how long has it been set up? John*<o)))<* On 17 January 2013 06:00, angelasfeathers <angelasfeathers@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > Hi Harry and everyone, > I am so happy to be here ..I am new but have worked with the science of > behavior with many animal species including herps . > Can someone help us with what is going on my daughter's fish have all died > in just a few days at her fountain in Malibu, CA. The "pond" became > completely dark after all the rain and I told her to take out just 1/4 of > the water and refill it with clean hose water. Unfortunately I think she > said she actually took out and put back in 3/4 new water from the hose. > They started to die the very next day so far it seems to have stopped and > the rest are still OK ? When she originally filled it she used hose water > and let it sit for 24 hours or longer. We don't know what to do the pool is > 4x 8 and does have a pump of some sort ( I have to find out what kind it > is) ' > At the fish store where she got the fish the person who works there told > her she should have left the water black even though the fish could never > be seen ...as it was it's own ecosystem . I completely understand the > concept of a natural ecosystem ....but I am not convinced this is a true > one and not convinced this is what caused the die off? > I would love to know what and why this has happened to these poor > beautiful fish :( . Did putting water from the hose in without airing it do > this? > PS. The white belly and the large gold fish have died ..but so far the > Japanese big fish and a few of the gold fish are still alive and so far > seem OK > __________________________________________ > Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal > Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ > Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive > reinforcement includes .... people too. ~ > California Wildlife Center,volunteer wildlife warrior. > www.cawildlife.org > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54400	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Help; Why are did my daughters fish die/

Hi Ray, Thank you so much for this information she will get what is needed and do as you say. The pond turned immediately black after two days of rain in Malibu, CA., making the fish completely invisible. I didn't think this was OK of course but the employee at the fish store told her its fine and leave it alone like that !? The "fountain" structure with the pond to fill up with water is more of an art design ( with no real fountain). Their is no well water the water source is only municipal water. As I suspected my daughter ( who is an wonderful "gentle"equestrian trainer on the Pacific Show Circuit) knew not a lot about fish before this (which is sure about to change) ,and removed more like 3/4 th's of the black water and not just 1/4th . Also how often should 1/4 th (with a remover conditioner) of the partial water changes be done? {Ray wrote} >Angela, By "hose water," I'm presuming you mean water from your municiplal water supply rather than from a private well -- even though you weren't that specific. Almost every public water supplier adds some form of bactericide to their water, which is toxic to fishes. I did notice that you said that when this pond was originally filled, that the water sat for 24 hours or longer -- but again, you weren't specific in saying exactly how long after this that the fish were added, nor do you say how many months (or years) ago this pond was originally filled.. Most water suppliers that add a bactericide (and that's most of them) now use a product called Chloramine, a combination of ammonia and chlorine which locks up as a compound and doesn't dissipate very fast at all. This would be lethal to fish for at least three weeks or better. While your water supply may have this compound but at a smaller than normal concentration -- explaining why these other fishes are still living -- iit's more probable that your tap (hose) water contains just Chlorine, which dissipates slowly over 24 to 48 hours. It's more likely that your tap water has this Chlorine especially if this pond was originally filled fairly recently, and if the fishes were added to this pond soon after allowing this water to sit for 24 hours (or more). Still, Chlorine in itself is very toxic to fish -- which is the reason for allowing it to sit for at least 24 hours so that t has time to dissipate. As 3/4 of this pond may well have been refilled with chlorinated water ( too much!) with fish being in this water, this would explain the fish deaths that were seen. After 24 hours, and with the Chlorine mostly dissipated, the stronger fish were fortunate enough to survive. I can't say what the black water occurred from, but placing carbon in the filer would probably have removed it. When doing partial water changes, they should generally be restricted to about removing only "25%" (one fourth) of the pond -- and then (important) , a water conditioner container chlorine remover needs to be added at this same time. Call your water company to see exactly which bactericide they add to their water, and if they add Chloramine get a water conditioner having a dechloraminator in it.. Then you will be always safe in the future. Ray {Angela wrote} >Hi Harry and everyone, I am so happy to be here ..I am new but have worked with the science of behavior with many animal species including herps . Can someone help us with what is going on my daughter' s fish have all died in just a few days at her fountain in Malibu, CA. The "pond" became completely dark after all the rain and I told her to take out just 1/4 of the water and refill it with clean hose water. Unfortunately I think she said she actually took out and put back in 3/4 new water from the hose. They started to die the very next day so far it seems to have stopped and the rest are still OK ? When she originally filled it she used hose water and let it sit for 24 hours or longer. We don't know what to do the pool is 4x 8 and does have a pump of some sort ( I have to find out what kind it is) ' At the fish store where she got the fish the person who works there told her she should have left the water black even though the fish could never be seen ...as it was it's own ecosystem . I completely understand the concept of a natural ecosystem ....but I am not convinced this is a true one and not convinced this is what caused the die off? I would love to know what and why this has happened to these poor beautiful fish :( . Did putting water from the hose in without airing it do this? PS. The white belly and the large gold fish have died ..but so far the Japanese big fish and a few of the gold fish are still alive and so far seem OK ____________ ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54401	From: Patrick	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" wrote: > I'm wanting to add another fish tank to my collection. > However, I've only got one outlet open! Hi Ava, I have a simply low tech tank I run in my bedroom which I find very enjoyable. 10 gallon with a standard 18W fluorescent lamp and a simple Aquaclear power filter which I only run a pair of reusable sponges. No heater, stocked with Java Moss, various Cryptocoryne, and a colony of common guppies started from cheap feeder guppies. I keep the house cool in the winter so the tank is usually in the mid-60s, perhaps a bit warmer at night when the light has been on all day. The guppies don't eat much, are not messy, super easy to care for, plants are all low light low tech types that do fine in plain gravel. Other than changing some water each week, the only other maintenance is squeezing out the sponges in the filter once in a while and trimming down the Java Moss every 3 months or so. To Ray's point, one outlet is enough to run a ten gallon tank even with a heater. A typical 10 gallon tank would usually be an 18W lamp, a 7W or so filter motor, and a 50 watt heater. That's 75 watts TOTAL. A typical USA household outlet (dual outlet) max's out at 1800 watts (120V times 15 amps). Your tank setup will be using less than 5% of the total power available, so certainly not even close to overloading it. Have fun, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54402	From: joebhoy80	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Nitrite levels??

Hi, I have a 30 gallon cold water fish tank with 1 common goldfish in it, i previously had a 6 gallon tank with 2 other fancy fish in it but they died when i moved them into the new tank. I had very little knowledge of fishkeeping when i done this. This was done over 2 months ago and i have been regulary testing my water and speaking to john who has been keeping me right with water changes etc. i done a water test using my api testing kit 2 nights ago and the ammonia levels had dropped to what looked like zero, and the nitrites had risen to what looked like about 1.0ppm, my ph has always been steady at around 7.4 and the nitrates have always looked to be zero. I carried out a 50% water change which halved the nitrites. I have just done another test and the nitrites look around 1.5-2.0. Can anyone give me any advice on what i should be doing. im assuming i want to be doing regular water changes and keeping feeding to a minimum im just wandering how long this process will take, the good news is my goldfish looks very happy and everything seems ok its just i no nitrites can still be very harmful and i want to keep stress to a minimum, any help would be really appreciated. thanks Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54403	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Stratifying

Can anyone explain more about something called STRATIFYING, when the top and bottom layers change position, when we have hot days and cold nights ( well actually the norm in California even in summer you always need a blanket at night, the weather here really spoils you and why it's a bloody fortune just to live here). ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54404	From: deenerzz	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying

I think stratifying happens in deep ponds and larger bodies of water. I dug up this link a moment ago. http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/pdf/0007.pdf MIke -----Original Message----- From: Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 10:57 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Stratifying Can anyone explain more about something called STRATIFYING, when the top and bottom layers change position, when we have hot days and cold nights ( well actually the norm in California even in summer you always need a blanket at night, the weather here really spoils you and why it's a bloody fortune just to live here). ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54405	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Low-tech fish tanks?

I have to agree with Ray and Patrick about the one outlet being enough for filter, heater, and standard fluorescent light fixture for a 10 gallon tank, which means you should be able to keep most any of the fishes that are suitable for a 10 gallon. If you choose to go without the heater there are also white clouds and gold white clouds that are both pretty/colorful, a bit larger than the endlers/guppies, active, and do better in the cooler temps since they are a minnow species. Just because nobody else has mentioned it yet I feel the need to warn you that 10 gallons is not nearly large enough to raise an axolotl. Minimum tank size for 1 would be about a 40 breeder, and that's if you keep up good on water changes. They get rather large and are quite dirty/messy and require extremely good water conditions at all times. Like most any amphibian they are subject to some major health issues if the water is less than perfect quality, most commonly skin infections and open sores. Good luck with your new tank. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" wrote: > > Hello, > I'm wanting to add another fish tank to my collection. However, I've only got one outlet open! > I have an empty 10gallon tank that I would like to fill somehow though I'm not sure with what. > Because I only have one outlet, I'd have to choose one of the following: heater, filter, or light. I don't need an air pump, I could connect it to my current one. > Water temp would probably be around 65-68F at room temp where I'd have the tank. > Would I be able to do something like that? Ideas on kinds of fish? Maybe an axolotl? Thanks. > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54406	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/17/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying

You wouldn't have stratifying in a pond 18" deep. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54407	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/18/2013
Subject: Re: Stratifying

Thanks for that link Mike, very interesting & something I knew very little about until now. It explains why pond fish sit at the bottom all the time during the Winter-it's warmer down there. John*<o)))<* On 17 January 2013 21:31, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > ** > > > I think stratifying happens in deep ponds and larger bodies of water. > I dug up this link a moment ago. > > http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/pdf/0007.pdf > > MIke > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Angela Cancilla Herschel angelasfeathers@...> > To: AquaticLife AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, Jan 17, 2013 10:57 am > Subject: [AquaticLife] Stratifying > > Can anyone explain more about something called > STRATIFYING, when the top and bottom layers > change position, when we have hot days and > cold nights ( well actually the norm in California even in summer you > always > need a blanket at night, the weather here really spoils you and why it's a > bloody fortune just to live here). > ________________________________ > Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal > > Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ > Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement > includes...people too. ~ > > California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior > www.cawildlife.org > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the > reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> > i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can > change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home > page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you > will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54408	From: Jessica Hardy	Date: 1/18/2013
Subject: New member

Just wanted to say hello and thank you for allowing us here.  The Koi are doing well so far. Looking forward to learning & sharing with y'all. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54409	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: Nitrite levels??

Hi Joe, I'm not sure if you received other replies on this. If so, I may have missed them. As you're aware of needing to test for these water parameters you've given us, I have to assume you're aware of needing to establish a nitrogen cycle. I don't know though, if you're aware that it's preferable to cycle your tank before adding fish. With already having a fish in your tank, it's extremely more difficult to establish a cycle without stressing your fish and without it forcing you to do so much more work in keeping your parameters stress-free for your fish. I'd even go so far as to recommend bringing this fish back to the store until your tank is cycled -- which takes between 4 and 6 weeks on average. As it appears you've set this 30 gallon tank up about 2 months ago, including adding your fish to it at the time (unless there's something else I'm missing), your tank should have been cycled by now. Since your nitrate has always looked to be zero, and is still testing zero, your nitrites will never go down of their own accord until you start getting a reading for your nitrate indicating that the nitrite is being converted (to nitrate); in essence, your tank is far from being cycled yet. In the meantime, you're just going to have to continue making large water changes to keep the nitrite level down, especially as it rises back up fast, to 1.5 -- 2.0 ppm soon after making a PWC -- as I understand it. This would indicate that your cycle is in it's second stage. The ammonia can be expected to rise first, and as that comes down with bacteria for it becoming established, the nitrite level will then rise after the ammonia-converting bacteria continue to produce more nitrite. For now, while establishing a cycle, you want to have some nitrite in the water to feed the nitrite-converting bacteria and get them well established also -- while still maintaining a safe environment for your fish by keeping this nitrite down to a more stress-less level via water changes. While you don't want 2.0 ppm nitrite in the water column if you can avoid it, you can add a water conditioner, like Prime, at double the recommended amount needed for breaking down chloramine and converting the ammonia in it to ammonium. The extra Prime being added will address any toxic issues of high nitrite -- but you'll still need to keep up with PWC's until the tank is comnpletely cycled. The beneficial effects of Prime are only good for up to 48 hours, after which you need to add more Prime (enough to treat the entire 30 gallons, not just an amount to treat the new water). You may need to make PWC's at least this often anyway, while the tank is cycling, so adding more Prime after 48 hours may be a moot point when you'll need to add it anyway.with the water change -- but I just wanted to clarify Prime's effective time limit. Fortunately, as opposed to ammonia becoming more toxic as the pH increases, nitrite becomes more toxic as the pH decreases. With your pH of 7.4, it's not nearly as toxic as it would be if your pH were at 6.8. Still, nitrite in itself is much more toxic than ammonia, so the Prime is a requisite until you see your nitrate building up as your nitrite decreases. At that time, only enough water needs to be changed to keep your nitrate below 40 ppm (and preferably as low as is practical for you). Additional aeration is always an added benefit when using more than the usual amounts of water conditions. Check your tap water parameters also, to see if that contains any nitrite to begin with. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54410	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member

Welcome Jessica; Glad you found us, Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54411	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Stratifying

Thank you for the great information. >stratifying happens in deep ponds and larger bodies of water. I dug up this link a moment ago. < http://ohioline.osu.edu/a-fact/pdf/0007.pdf> ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54412	From: joebhoy80	Date: 1/19/2013
Subject: Re: Nitrite levels??

Thanks very much for the information ray, I didn't no much about the cycling when I put the fish in the new tank, I'll just need to keep doing PWC every couple of days to keep stress levels to a minimum, I'll also buy that product that u mentioned and start adding that, if u have any other suggestions that would be great. Regards Joe Sent from my BlackBerry� smartphone -----Original Message----- From: sevenspringss@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 07:48:03 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Nitrite levels?? Hi Joe, I'm not sure if you received other replies on this. If so, I may have missed them. As you're aware of needing to test for these water parameters you've given us, I have to assume you're aware of needing to establish a nitrogen cycle. I don't know though, if you're aware that it's preferable to cycle your tank before adding fish. With already having a fish in your tank, it's extremely more difficult to establish a cycle without stressing your fish and without it forcing you to do so much more work in keeping your parameters stress-free for your fish. I'd even go so far as to recommend bringing this fish back to the store until your tank is cycled -- which takes between 4 and 6 weeks on average. As it appears you've set this 30 gallon tank up about 2 months ago, including adding your fish to it at the time (unless there's something else I'm missing), your tank should have been cycled by now. Since your nitrate has always looked to be zero, and is still testing zero, your nitrites will never go down of their own accord until you start getting a reading for your nitrate indicating that the nitrite is being converted (to nitrate); in essence, your tank is far from being cycled yet. In the meantime, you're just going to have to continue making large water changes to keep the nitrite level down, especially as it rises back up fast, to 1.5 -- 2.0 ppm soon after making a PWC -- as I understand it. This would indicate that your cycle is in it's second stage. The ammonia can be expected to rise first, and as that comes down with bacteria for it becoming established, the nitrite level will then rise after the ammonia-converting bacteria continue to produce more nitrite. For now, while establishing a cycle, you want to have some nitrite in the water to feed the nitrite-converting bacteria and get them well established also -- while still maintaining a safe environment for your fish by keeping this nitrite down to a more stress-less level via water changes. While you don't want 2.0 ppm nitrite in the water column if you can avoid it, you can add a water conditioner, like Prime, at double the recommended amount needed for breaking down chloramine and converting the ammonia in it to ammonium. The extra Prime being added will address any toxic issues of high nitrite -- but you'll still need to keep up with PWC's until the tank is comnpletely cycled. The beneficial effects of Prime are only good for up to 48 hours, after which you need to add more Prime (enough to treat the entire 30 gallons, not just an amount to treat the new water). You may need to make PWC's at least this often anyway, while the tank is cycling, so adding more Prime after 48 hours may be a moot point when you'll need to add it anyway.with the water change -- but I just wanted to clarify Prime's effective time limit. Fortunately, as opposed to ammonia becoming more toxic as the pH increases, nitrite becomes more toxic as the pH decreases. With your pH of 7.4, it's not nearly as toxic as it would be if your pH were at 6.8. Still, nitrite in itself is much more toxic than ammonia, so the Prime is a requisite until you see your nitrate building up as your nitrite decreases. At that time, only enough water needs to be changed to keep your nitrate below 40 ppm (and preferably as low as is practical for you). Additional aeration is always an added benefit when using more than the usual amounts of water conditions. Check your tap water parameters also, to see if that contains any nitrite to begin with. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54413	From: Ava	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Battery operated LED clip on light?

So, because I'm building a low-tech fish tank, I wanted a battery operated LED strip to use as a light--preferably a clip on Anyone know of any? All the lights I saw at the store either was very obviously a plug-in or didn't say and you couldn't tell without opening the box. It's for a 10gal. :) If anyone knows of any, a link would be appreciated :) Thanks guys! -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54414	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?

Hi Ava, Battery powered aquarium lighting doesn't ring any immediate bells with my limited experience, I do use LEDs as a low moonlight effect for a few hours after my main tank lights go out but they are mains powered so you may have to go that way but it shouldn't be a problem if you have a power point nearby & many of the LEDs run on very low wattages such as 12 or 6 with a transformer plug. John*<o)))< * On 21 January 2013 14:57, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > So, because I'm building a low-tech fish tank, I wanted a battery operated > LED strip to use as a light--preferably a clip on > > Anyone know of any? All the lights I saw at the store either was very > obviously a plug-in or didn't say and you couldn't tell without opening the > box. > > It's for a 10gal. :) > > If anyone knows of any, a link would be appreciated :) > > Thanks guys! > -Ava > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54415	From: jerryhutcherson	Date: 1/21/2013
Subject: Aquarium Products

http://www.webstore.com/145581,user_id,shop

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54416	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?

I think it would help us more if we knew more about your plans for this tank and why you are seeking a battery operated light vs one that plugs in? How often and how long at a time do you plan to turn the light on? I am assuming there will be no live plants in this tank, correct? Will there be natural sunlight hitting this tank at all? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" wrote: > > So, because I'm building a low-tech fish tank, I wanted a battery operated LED strip to use as a light--preferably a clip on > > Anyone know of any? All the lights I saw at the store either was very obviously a plug-in or didn't say and you couldn't tell without opening the box. > > It's for a 10gal. :) > > If anyone knows of any, a link would be appreciated :) > > Thanks guys! > -Ava >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54417	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?

Try Lowes, Home Depot, etc. for generic battery operated LED lights that can be placed on most glass topped tanks. For example, those puck shaped ones designed to stick in closets or under cabinets would work ("Sylvania Dot-It Silver LED Battery-Operated Stick-On Tap Light")... http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100670785/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=LED+battery+light&storeId=10051#.UP9Z6ej_2Iw Or maybe a bar light like this one ("Rite Lite 10 LED Wireless Slim Light, White")... http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100671569&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-SearchPLPHorizontal1-2-_-NA-_-100671569-_-N#.UP9Z5-j_2Iw Both use AAA or AA type batteries so you can always invest in some rechargeable batteries, say a couple of sets, and then swap them back and forth as one set is being used the other set is being recharged. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54418	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 1/22/2013
Subject: Video: Trust Accounts -Behavior Works (Dr Susan Friedman's narrates

Fish are easily taught to all go to the one side of the pond where the humans are as they learn they might get a primary reinforcer (aka: you don't need to learn to like food when you are hungry and ready for a meal ...whereas a secondary reinforcer is not inate and is something that must be learned ...example , touching etc ) . Don't forget this is why we form a positive relationship with our herps and why they will learn to follow us around the garden ! Even with us humans remember how that one wonderful professor made us feel smart and safe and creative and had us wanting to learn? ...and now remember all those professors that scared us ...and how we only did enough not to get in trouble and never ever offered any more. I always remember the story of one trainer using aversive training , and the other positive reinforcement . During the testing before all the onlookers .....one little elephant, when asked to lift his right foot , lifted his foot slowly just barley off the ground.....and the second little elephant , when asked to lift his right foot , did so too ...only this little guy did it with lightening speed lifting his foot high in the air while waving his trunk and flapping his tail and ears as he leaned closer to his beloved trainer . "A trusting relationship is an essential element of teaching and learning. This playful video compares learner trust to a bank account." ~ Dr Susan Friedman ( narrated by the great maestra herself ) <https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vu6KKb_dzms> __________________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive  reinforcement includes .... people too. ~ California Wildlife Center,volunteer wildlife warrior. www.cawildlife.org

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54419	From: sevenspringss	Date: 1/23/2013
Subject: Re: Battery operated LED clip on light?

Just to add to this thread, besides the 3" diameter round LED (battery operated) lights -- have 3 LED "bulbs -- sold in home improvement stores, there are also 6 1/2 " long LED strip lights containing 5 LED "bulbs." They're labeled, Stick N Click. While none of these units would be very useful at growing plants, they do throw some good light for their size, although I don't know why a house current operated unit wouldn't be opted for -- except for the expense. I don't know of any battery operated LED aquarium hoods in the hobby, but this is not to say there may not be any. For someone wanting to use a similar item that hasn't yet been marketed, a handy hobbyist could probably make a hood having battery operated LED lights installed in them if they have a mind to. After all, there wouldn't be any electrical shock danger to have to worry about when using batteries, and there's no heat involved. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54420	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Wanted: Fish tank/Filter (Malibu)

Hi, If anyone has a fish tank/ filter etc ., they no longer use my daughter would be happy to pick it up. She wants to be able to have it so it is less stressful as possible and have a place for them when she is doing partial water change with water treatment to their outside fountain "pond" enclosure on the patio garden. ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54421	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Wanted: Fish tank/Filter (Malibu)

Try Craig's list...there are usually lots of tanks. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Angela Cancilla Herschel Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:36 AM To: Cancilla Herschel Angela (Yahoo email) Subject: [AquaticLife] Wanted: Fish tank/Filter (Malibu) Hi, If anyone has a fish tank/ filter etc ., they no longer use my daughter would be happy to pick it up. She wants to be able to have it so it is less stressful as possible and have a place for them when she is doing partial water change with water treatment to their outside fountain "pond" enclosure on the patio garden. ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54422	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 2/2/2013
Subject: Re: Long nose snails

If you google apple snails you  will be cable to identify what you have.    Definite;y one of the items that will keep them alive is iceberg lettuce. Just a small portion to see how much they eat.   At one time I had a family with 300 babies. Alot of fun to watch grow and observe their actions.   Nancy/Pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54423	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: here fishie fishie.

hi all. I'm going to my not so l.f.s. tomorrow for supplies, and I will be wanting a small mid to top water fish.... not a jumper... that will get along with the rummynose tetras in the little tank... that are convinced they are corys, and should stay on the bottom. I have done a little research, and am thinking maybe a honey gourami... any other ideas? thanks folks. hope everyone and their fish are doing well. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54424	From: Noura	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Re: here fishie fishie.

Hello Al, you didn't say what tank size you have. Lol at those rummynose "corys"! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 9:52 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] here fishie fishie. hi all. I'm going to my not so l.f.s. tomorrow for supplies, and I will be wanting a small mid to top water fish.... not a jumper... that will get along with the rummynose tetras in the little tank... that are convinced they are corys, and should stay on the bottom. I have done a little research, and am thinking maybe a honey gourami... any other ideas? thanks folks. hope everyone and their fish are doing well. Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54425	From: joebhoy80	Date: 2/3/2013
Subject: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!

Hi, Up until last week i had 1 goldfish in a 30 gallon tank which hadnt been cycled, this was due to my lack of knowledge of fish keeping, i then done abit of research and got some advice from john who is on the forum, it took my tank over 2 months to cycle and i done all the necessary things to keep stress levels to a minimum and the goldfish appeared to be quite happy and looked great. Last week i added 2 more fish, a bristol shabunkin and a comet goldfish as i didnt just want to keep 1 fish and wanted to give my goldfish some company. Everything seemed fine until about 3 days ago when i noticed that my goldfish (the original one i had) started acting strange, basically not engaging and just sitting under the filters, i then noticed that he had some white fluffy stuff growin on his scales on his sides near the back of his body, i have now also noticed that when i tested my water there is a reading of ammonia (around 0.5ppm) my ph is 7.2, my nitrites are 0 and my nitrates are quite low. Today i bought a product called tetra goldmed which basically treats the majority of goldfish diseases, i done a 50% water change and added the correct ammount of the medication. im just really concerned about my goldfish and dont really no what else to do. does anyone have any suggestions on what else to do i really dont want to lose him regards Joe

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54426	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: here fishie fishie.

Hi Al, While Honey Gourami's are a good choice in a peaceful community tank of smaller fishes, it doesn't restrict itself to the upper portion pf the tank. You could consider any of the Danios, including the new and small Celestial Pearl Danio but many top-water species have evolved as such to take advantage of feeding on insects on the surface -- and may clear the surface in capturing them. So, even though you may not be feeding them insects, there's the good chance that these types of fishes may still jump on occasion, only because they can. You could also consider one of the Rainbow Fishes, some which don't get much bigger than Honey Gourami's and some -- like the Neon Rainbow -- staying smaller than these Gourami's. While they're not considered "surface fish," most stay within the upper 1/3 of the water column. Actually, if given the chance (like not keeping a cover on the tank), almost any fish may jump at any time -- whether it be now or two years from now (or 3 or 5 years) -- even bottom dwelling catfish. It only takes one time for them to jump to be able to lose them. Then, it's all over for them and you're without a fish. It just doesn't pay to keep a tank, offering the opportunity for any fish to jump, as you're asking for this eventual problem and when you least expect; keep a lid on it < g >. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54427	From: Ava	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: DIY 3D background with sandfall

My next project I want to do for my new 40 gallon axolotl tank is a 3d rock background with sandfall. I was curious if anyone has made one and has any photos or tips! Thanks -Ava

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54428	From: Ava	Date: 2/4/2013
Subject: Re: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!

When you say "white fluffy stuff" it sounds like ich to me, something that the new goldfish may have had from the petstore and when you brought them home, infected your other fish. I haven't heard of the medication you're using, but I'd go look for something for Ich/Ick specifically. When my goldfish got ick, I bought this: http://www.petguys.com/-046798773470.html?productid=-046798773470&channelid=FROOG&utm_source=CSEs&utm_medium=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=PetGuys It turned the water blue, but after a full treatment it cleared up and hasn't returned. Best of luck. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joebhoy80" wrote: > > Hi, > > Up until last week i had 1 goldfish in a 30 gallon tank which hadnt been cycled, this was due to my lack of knowledge of fish keeping, i then done abit of research and got some advice from john who is on the forum, it took my tank over 2 months to cycle and i done all the necessary things to keep stress levels to a minimum and the goldfish appeared to be quite happy and looked great. > > Last week i added 2 more fish, a bristol shabunkin and a comet goldfish as i didnt just want to keep 1 fish and wanted to give my goldfish some company. > > Everything seemed fine until about 3 days ago when i noticed that my goldfish (the original one i had) started acting strange, basically not engaging and just sitting under the filters, i then noticed that he had some white fluffy stuff growin on his scales on his sides near the back of his body, i have now also noticed that when i tested my water there is a reading of ammonia (around 0.5ppm) my ph is 7.2, my nitrites are 0 and my nitrates are quite low. > > Today i bought a product called tetra goldmed which basically treats the majority of goldfish diseases, i done a 50% water change and added the correct ammount of the medication. > > im just really concerned about my goldfish and dont really no what else to do. > > does anyone have any suggestions on what else to do i really dont want to lose him > > > regards > > Joe >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54429	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: Having problems any help would be really appreciated!!!

Hi Joe, It's noticed that even though you described this disease's appearance, that you haven't given a diagnosis. Your description of "some white fluffy stuff" could fit body fungus quite well though, if by this you mean it looks like a cottony-like growth (which I'd take your description to mean on the face of it). There are other white colored body infections though -- not really looking "fluffy" (although that description can be taken subjectively) -- and which may not necessarily be treatable with Tetra GoldMed. The bacterial infection, Columnaris (Flexibacteria) is one example of this, so most often, one medication goes not always treat the "majority" of goldfish diseases. The ingredients of Tetra GoldMed (Formalin and Malachite Green) are most often used for treating Ich (White Spot), offered under other labels as a medication for this disease. This medication is effective against Fungus though, and you were somewhat fortunate to use this med, if the cottony-like description fits what you observe -- although it's harsher than needed. Besides which, Tetra GoldMed has killed off your nitrifying bacteria, which will necessitate your cycling this tank all over again. There are other medications for treating Fungus which are not nearly as harsh, and which would not have decimated your cycle, yet which would have been just as effective (if not more) for treating Fungus. Assuming this is Fungus -- as it would seem to be -- there's really not much more you can do at this point except to follow the directrions on the back of the bottle and redose as directed -- making a partial water change at that time. Before the initial dose, and with an ammonia reading of 5 ppm, you should have made a partial water change then -- which I'm assuming you did. No amount of ammonia is good for fish, as it stresses them -- which may be why your fish got taken ill. At your pH of 7.2, a 0.5 ppm level of Total Ammonia would only result in a Free Ammonia level of 0.003 ppm at 70 o (and 0.005 ppm at 80 o, which you wouldn't maintain for goldfish) -- which would be far less than the 0.020 ppm level of Free Ammonia that would start to be toxic to fish. Still, if there's any small error on reading your pH test, this Total Ammonia could be even more dangerous. That your nitrate was not very high at that time, indicated that your tank may not have been fully cycled yet -- unless you were making large and frequent partial water changes to keep this nitrate down. But if you weren't, as I'd guess, this points more positively to an insufficiently cycled tank -- undoubtedly due to the addition of the two other fish, increasing the bioload (and increasing the ammonia load). One of the best things you should consider doinng for proper fish maintenance (and including disease identification) is to buy a good basic book on fish keeping, as your knowledge of fish keeping is still somewhat lacking. Please don't take this as a put-down, as it's certainly not meant that way; this would be the best thing you could do for yourself and your fish. Please know, that one goldfish needs at least 35 gallons (and 45 gallons would be better) -- and that's if it's a round-bodied double-tail type. This ensures that the fish will not be stunted and will provide it with the optimum conditions for it to do it's absolute best. Round-bodied goldfish can reach at least 8", and they're bulky. You haven't stated what kind of a goldfish this is, but if it's a straight-tail goldfish, it needs even more room. The Comet Goldfish (straight-tail) needs a minimum of 75 gallons if you want to have it prosper to its max, as it can get to 14" long -- it's really a pond fish. The Shubunkin Goldfish will get nearly this size, but at least 12" -- if you provide it with the right conditions, including water volume. So, be prepared to upgrade to a much larger tank as the fish start growing. Even now, as goldfish notoriously produce a lot of waste for their size, a larger tank should be considered to best keep the organic wastes (ammonia, etc.) down. An excellent book on Goldfish, if you can find it on the 'Net, is Dr. Innes' Goldfish Varieties and Water Gardens. Ray . </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54430	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall

Ava, 3-D rock backgrounds used to be made commercially. Photos of them can be found in older aquarium magazines, which may help you out (if you can find them). You may need to go up on eBay or Aqua-Bid to find these issues though. They do make for a great looking background appearance. One problem with them though, was that occasionally, a small fish would find its way in back of the background and couldn't get out. The only way to prevent that would be to use a silicone sealant around the perimeter of the background where it meets the back of the tank. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54431	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall

I do have 3D backgrounds (but no pics). True that fry swim through the grates but I just net them and flip them to the front. The edges are siliconed but there is a space in back for equipment and grates to allow the filters to intake water from the tank through the background. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY 3D background with sandfall Ava, 3-D rock backgrounds used to be made commercially. Photos of them can be found in older aquarium magazines, which may help you out (if you can find them). You may need to go up on eBay or Aqua-Bid to find these issues though. They do make for a great looking background appearance. One problem with them though, was that occasionally, a small fish would find its way in back of the background and couldn't get out. The only way to prevent that would be to use a silicone sealant around the perimeter of the background where it meets the back of the tank. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54432	From: Noura	Date: 2/5/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall

About 6months ago I found this amazing project of a tank with a sandfall rocky background. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSZ6B4SiyE You can also find videos about the process on youtube (keywords: aquarium – background- sandfall) , you'll find several ones. Please keep us posted as you go! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ava Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:35 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY 3D background with sandfall My next project I want to do for my new 40 gallon axolotl tank is a 3d rock background with sandfall. I was curious if anyone has made one and has any photos or tips! Thanks -Ava [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54433	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/6/2013
Subject: Re: DIY 3D background with sandfall

I have a tank with the 3D background in it. It's made of some kind of foam/resin type stuff... (it was a manufacturer prototype)and I'd like to offer something else to think about in regards to these 3D backgrounds and the materials used to make them... how do you clean them? I took down that tank when it was clear to me that the cyano bacteria growth was never going to let up, even with the use of antibiotics and other products meant to deal with it. There was just no way to get rid of it because the materials it was made from contributed to the growth of the cyano. It killed so many plants and was so much work and nothing helped. I was using a tootbrush daily to keep it clean and even that proved impossible. And in case anyone is wondering, it was a 75 gallon tank and fully planted with wisteria, hornwort, and various other plants... the only fish were a pair of juvenile angelfish about 2 inches in diameter each. The tank was running both a HOB rated for 100+ gallons as well as a canister filter, so it wasn't a matter of having a "dirty" tank that caused the issues. Because of the cyano problem I had to remove the fish after only a few weeks and even running with live plants and no fish, the problems were constant. I tried for months to get that tank in good shape enough to put fish into it but there was just nothing that worked. That tank is sitting in storage now waiting for me to set it back up as a dry tank for lizards or something non aquatic. It was/is a beautiful tank with a beautiful background... but it's useless in regards to fish. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" wrote: > > About 6months ago I found this amazing project of a tank with a sandfall > rocky background. Here's the link: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSZ6B4SiyE > > You can also find videos about the process on youtube (keywords: aquarium – > background- sandfall) , you'll find several ones. > > Please keep us posted as you go! > > > > Noura > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ava > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:35 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] DIY 3D background with sandfall > > > > > > My next project I want to do for my new 40 gallon axolotl tank is a 3d rock > background with sandfall. I was curious if anyone has made one and has any > photos or tips! > Thanks > -Ava > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54434	From: rene berghofer	Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: (no subject)

Hi' I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had them for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54435	From: annieg	Date: 2/7/2013
Subject: brown alage

My tank has been set up about 8 weeks. It is a 20 gal high with live plants I have danios,3 platties, 3 tetras, 1 female betta and a dwarf groumi. I have noticed that i have spots on the glass with some brown smudge looking spots. I am guessing it is alage since it is growing on a rock or two that I have,not a lot but one or two places. What causes this? Is it something I'm doing wrong or part of a cycle? Water is very clear and I do weekly water changes (5 gals) Any ideas I am sure ya'll will set me straight and send me in the right directions. thanks Annie

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54436	From: nicholassmirlis	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: raising bettas

i just got started raising bettas . i purchased a female betta but she is small. i would like to find people that have extra females to trade how do i go about this if i go on aquabid it is so much to buy a beta and the shipment is way too much

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54437	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage

Hi Annie. How often do you clean your glass? I scrape mine down once a week with an old fishing licence plastic card... I don't think they get the irony. :-)>>> I thought I had a problem with a rock rusting one time, then I think Donna in this group said, "maybe it's diatoms," and sure enough.... Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "annieg" wrote: > > My tank has been set up about 8 weeks. It is a 20 gal high with live plants I have danios,3 platties, 3 tetras, 1 female betta and a dwarf groumi. I have noticed that i have spots on the glass with some brown smudge looking spots. I am guessing it is alage since it is growing on a rock or two that I have,not a lot but one or two places. What causes this? Is it something I'm doing wrong or part of a cycle? Water is very clear and I do weekly water changes (5 gals) Any ideas I am sure ya'll will set me straight and send me in the right directions. thanks > Annie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54438	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Greetings

Welcome to the group Rene' I do things old school with buckets, so my back may stiffen just by thinking of a tank that size. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rene berghofer wrote: > > Hi' > I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. > 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had them for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54439	From: Ray	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage

Hi Annie, "Brown Algae" often occurs in recently set up aquariums. You're right, in referring to this growth as an algae, but it's far from the normal types of algae which synthesise their own foods. Brown Algae contain very little if any green chlorophyll in their cells, and so, cannot depend on photosynthesising their foods using carbon dioxide as other plants do. Instead, Brown Algae take advantage of any silica/silicate in the water as their major food source. Your bioload does not seem to be excessive, yet you still need to monitor your water parameters to keep organic wastes well within levels that won't contribute to the growth of your brown algae. Especially needed by us, is your test results of your nitrate as this nitrogen ccompound will be used by brown algae I note you're maintaining your tank making weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes). This may or may not be enough to keep the brown algae at bay. Let us know what this level is, before making water changes. Most often, brown algae thrive in low light. which is one of the main reasons it occurs to begin with. Here again, we'd need to know how much lighting you're providing for this tank. You may need to increase it, but conversely and for more intricate reasons, it will thrive too in excess light. Just as live plants make it difficult for green algae to thrive, so do they also make it difficult for brown algae to thrive. I don't know if you have live plants but I'd encourage you using some. Let us know here, how long you keep your tank light on. Without live plants, you won't want to increase the light duration too much even if it's needed to curtail this brown algae, as you'd be encouraging green algae to grow. Brown Algae also find hard water and water high in other dissolved minerals to be to their liking. Of course, they especially do well in water having a fairly moderate dissolved silicate level. You may have provided this unintentionally if you're using regular aquarium gravel -- especially gravel that wasn't rinsed thoroughly enough to remove most of the fine-grained silica particles -- which dissolve fairly easily. The tank's glass itself is silica, although not as easily dissolved as the gravel. Then too, your water supply may have a high content of silicates in it. One quick and easy way to find that out is to contact your water company. Here too, water companies send out annual (or sometimes semi-annual) reports, listing all the chemicals in their water. This may be a federal mandate, but I'm not sure. I don't believe there's an aquarium test kit that can be used for testing silicates, although I'm not really sure of that. I haven't seen any such kits listed by aquarium supply houses though. Unless your tap water already has dissolved silicates, doing larger and/or more frequent PWC's will minimize this level. On this same thought, I'd also advise getting water hardness test kits. This would tell you if hard water is a factor here in promoting this brown algae. If your tap water is hard, there won't be too much you could do in that department however, except to looking into ways of softening it -- and ion-exchange water softeners won't help a brown algae problem as sodium would be added back into the water by this process. You'd need to go with bottled distilled water or buy an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit. Insufficient water movement and/or water lower in oxygen content is also another contributer to brown algae. While we don't want a current in the tank that will blow the fish away, quite often the smaller HOB (hang-on-back) filters don't provide enough circulation. If this sounds like your situation, this may be one cause for this growth. Luckily, brown algae is easily removeable by wiping it off of rocks, etc., with just a paper towel. If you give this a try though, it must be done outside of the aquarium so as not to release the algae spores back into the water column. Lastly, if your water is high in phosphates, this too will contribute to the growth of brown algae. Phosphates can be introduced into the water by fish foods containing higher amounts of it. Or, it can already be part of the contaminents of your tap water. The water company reports would indicate this. Here again, live plants will help get rid of it. If it's your fish food that's the source of any phosphates in your water, you can always change to a different brand. There's a phosphate test kit available in your fish stores. If your tap water has phosphates, there is an ion-exchange resin that you can put in your filter, that will remove phosphate. This same ion-exchange resin will also remove silcates from the water, so keep that in mind when getting your test results for it from the water company. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "annieg" wrote: > > My tank has been set up about 8 weeks. It is a 20 gal high with live plants I have danios,3 platties, 3 tetras, 1 female betta and a dwarf groumi. I have noticed that i have spots on the glass with some brown smudge looking spots. I am guessing it is alage since it is growing on a rock or two that I have,not a lot but one or two places. What causes this? Is it something I'm doing wrong or part of a cycle? Water is very clear and I do weekly water changes (5 gals) Any ideas I am sure ya'll will set me straight and send me in the right directions. thanks > Annie >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54440	From: Patrick	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "annieg" wrote: > I have noticed that i have spots on the glass with > some brown smudge looking spots. Does it wipe off easily with a finger and does it feel a bit gritty (rather than slimy)? If so, then you have "brown algae" which is actually diatoms. Completely harmless and in my experience often makes an appearance in new tanks, usually right about the 1-3 month mark as your has. Also in my experience it also generally disappears after a little while (weeks+) never to return again. Generally people report that Ottos will help with this stuff (other algae eaters don't usually bother with it), but in general you can safely ignore it and wait for it to run its course. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54441	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings

Hi Rene, Welcome, we appear to have some things in common; I also have a 100 gallon tank with 4 Goldfish, albeit the streamlined variety & mine are called Apricot, Buttercup, Marmalade & Tiny. Apricot turns 10 this Spring & his friends are not far behind. Would be very interested to know more about your set-up & perhaps see some pictures if possible. John*<o)))<* On 8 February 2013 13:38, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Welcome to the group Rene' > I do things old school with buckets, > so my back may stiffen just by thinking > of a tank that size. :-)>>> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rene berghofer wrote: > > > > Hi' > > I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. > > 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live > togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had them > for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 > year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54442	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage

All my tanks have hard water and silica substrate. I find the brown algae/diatoms to be normal for a bunch of months in newly established tanks. Just wipe it off and eventually it will clear up on it’s own without any effort on your part. Be strict about not overfeeding in the meantime. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 12:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: brown alage Hi Annie, "Brown Algae" often occurs in recently set up aquariums. You're right, in referring to this growth as an algae, but it's far from the normal types of algae which synthesise their own foods. Brown Algae contain very little if any green chlorophyll in their cells, and so, cannot depend on photosynthesising their foods using carbon dioxide as other plants do. Instead, Brown Algae take advantage of any silica/silicate in the water as their major food source. Your bioload does not seem to be excessive, yet you still need to monitor your water parameters to keep organic wastes well within levels that won't contribute to the growth of your brown algae. Especially needed by us, is your test results of your nitrate as this nitrogen ccompound will be used by brown algae I note you're maintaining your tank making weekly 25% PWC's (partial water changes). This may or may not be enough to keep the brown algae at bay. Let us know what this level is, before making water changes. Most often, brown algae thrive in low light. which is one of the main reasons it occurs to begin with. Here again, we'd need to know how much lighting you're providing for this tank. You may need to increase it, but conversely and for more intricate reasons, it will thrive too in excess light. Just as live plants make it difficult for green algae to thrive, so do they also make it difficult for brown algae to thrive. I don't know if you have live plants but I'd encourage you using some. Let us know here, how long you keep your tank light on. Without live plants, you won't want to increase the light duration too much even if it's needed to curtail this brown algae, as you'd be encouraging green algae to grow. Brown Algae also find hard water and water high in other dissolved minerals to be to their liking. Of course, they especially do well in water having a fairly moderate dissolved silicate level. You may have provided this unintentionally if you're using regular aquarium gravel -- especially gravel that wasn't rinsed thoroughly enough to remove most of the fine-grained silica particles -- which dissolve fairly easily. The tank's glass itself is silica, although not as easily dissolved as the gravel. Then too, your water supply may have a high content of silicates in it. One quick and easy way to find that out is to contact your water company. Here too, water companies send out annual (or sometimes semi-annual) reports, listing all the chemicals in their water. This may be a federal mandate, but I'm not sure. I don't believe there's an aquarium test kit that can be used for testing silicates, although I'm not really sure of that. I haven't seen any such kits listed by aquarium supply houses though. Unless your tap water already has dissolved silicates, doing larger and/or more frequent PWC's will minimize this level. On this same thought, I'd also advise getting water hardness test kits. This would tell you if hard water is a factor here in promoting this brown algae. If your tap water is hard, there won't be too much you could do in that department however, except to looking into ways of softening it -- and ion-exchange water softeners won't help a brown algae problem as sodium would be added back into the water by this process. You'd need to go with bottled distilled water or buy an R/O (reverse osmosis) unit. Insufficient water movement and/or water lower in oxygen content is also another contributer to brown algae. While we don't want a current in the tank that will blow the fish away, quite often the smaller HOB (hang-on-back) filters don't provide enough circulation. If this sounds like your situation, this may be one cause for this growth. Luckily, brown algae is easily removeable by wiping it off of rocks, etc., with just a paper towel. If you give this a try though, it must be done outside of the aquarium so as not to release the algae spores back into the water column. Lastly, if your water is high in phosphates, this too will contribute to the growth of brown algae. Phosphates can be introduced into the water by fish foods containing higher amounts of it. Or, it can already be part of the contaminents of your tap water. The water company reports would indicate this. Here again, live plants will help get rid of it. If it's your fish food that's the source of any phosphates in your water, you can always change to a different brand. There's a phosphate test kit available in your fish stores. If your tap water has phosphates, there is an ion-exchange resin that you can put in your filter, that will remove phosphate. This same ion-exchange resin will also remove silcates from the water, so keep that in mind when getting your test results for it from the water company. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "annieg" wrote: > > My tank has been set up about 8 weeks. It is a 20 gal high with live plants I have danios,3 platties, 3 tetras, 1 female betta and a dwarf groumi. I have noticed that i have spots on the glass with some brown smudge looking spots. I am guessing it is alage since it is growing on a rock or two that I have,not a lot but one or two places. What causes this? Is it something I'm doing wrong or part of a cycle? Water is very clear and I do weekly water changes (5 gals) Any ideas I am sure ya'll will set me straight and send me in the right directions. thanks > Annie > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54443	From: sevenspringss	Date: 2/8/2013
Subject: Re: brown alage

Hi Patrick, Yes, most algae are really harmless, including this "brown algae." Many people consider algae as being unsightly, but they're just another plant form. Growing on rocks, they really do no harm, but can be problematic to live plants when they cover their leaves. BTW, these diatoms are just another form of algae, albeit not what most would consider a conventional form having chlorophyll. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54444	From: Amber	Date: 2/11/2013
Subject: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

Hi!! I have two bala sharks that are under two inches in my 55 gallon tank. One of them looks healthy, nicely colored and all, while the other is quite pale in color and seems to be flashing and has a cloudy eye. I have heard that balas will react to ick by flashing. I had ick in the tank once before. I used some ick cure but still lost my 8 Platies. That was before I got the balas. My rainbow shark survived but it had quite the allergic reaction to the ick cure. I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. I would get test strips but bad sweater prevents me from traveling too far. Hopefully when it clears up I can grab some. Please, if anyone knows a possible cause could you tell me? I don't want the shark to die.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54445	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" wrote: > bad sweater prevents me from traveling too far. Is it one of those awful 80s Cosby sweaters? Or just a tacky left over Xmas sweater?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54446	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" wrote: > I have two bala sharks that are under two inches in my 55 gallon tank. So my first word of warning is that Bala sharks generally are poor aquarium fish for several reasons, but the main one is they simply get a lot bigger than most people can comfortable house. A healthy full grown Bala shark easily exceeds a foot in length. On top of that, they are schooling fish so to properly keep them you should have a group of them. And a group of 1-foot+ long fish needs a BIG aquarium. So you may want to rethink this choice of fish for your aquarium. That said... > One of them looks healthy, nicely colored and all, while the other > is quite pale in color and seems to be flashing and has a cloudy > eye. I have heard that balas will react to ick by flashing. I had > ick in the tank once before. I used some ick cure but still lost my > 8 Platies. That was before I got the balas. My rainbow shark > survived but it had quite the allergic reaction to the ick cure. So my first thought is that it would be unlikely to be ich if only one of the sharks has it and the other is perfectly fine. In addition, a cloudy eye is not usually a symptom of ich. Besides the two Balas and the Rainbow, anything else currently in the tank? > I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. Why not today? And tomorrow? > I would get test strips but bad sweater prevents me from > traveling too far. ;) > Please, if anyone knows a possible cause could you tell me? > I don't want the shark to die. Do you know anything else about your water? pH, hardness, nitrites, ammonia, nitrates, etc? If not, when you go to the pet store, take a sample of water with you and ask them to test it. In the meantime, I would start partial water changes. Also, if you do think it might be ich, you may want to start raising the temperature in the tank. Get it above about 82°F and that is about where ich can be killed off from simply too high a temperature. If you have ich and your rainbow shark doesn't tolerate medication, "heat treating" is a safe way. And if not ich, you don't medicate unnecessarily. It may simply be something wrong with that one fish and not your tank as a whole with a problem. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54447	From: Ray	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

Most fish will react to Ich by flashing, although this action may be caused by another issue. A PWC by itself will not automatically address this problem of eye cloud. Unless this eye cloud is more severe, a simple dye medication such as Acriflavin should clear this up. If it's worse than just being superficial, you'd need to use a gram-negative antibiotic such as Furan 2 or Fungus Clear to clear it up. Any medicating though, should always be preceeded by a PWC. As for the Rainbow Shark having an "allergic" reaction to the Ich medication, medication is not needed to treat Ich. The heat and salt method is most effect (and safe) in curing Ich, but it must not be below 86 o. Any lower but still warm water would only serve to have Ich thrive and multiply faster. It's at 86 o that Ich can no longer reproduce. If you plan on getting water testing equipment, do not get test strips as they're reputed to be inaccurate and unreliable at best. Instead, get a master (having a series of test kits) liquid test kit, such as A.P.I. If you get your water tested, bring in a sample only of water from the aquarium which has not yet had a PWC. Otherwise, the water tests from a freshly-changed tank will not indicate what your problem right now is, to have caused this cloudy eye problerm. So, bring a sample of your water in to the shop before changing it. When you get the results, get them in specific numbers, not "okay" or "fine," as that wouldn't tell us anything. A possible cause for this eye cloud could be high nitrates -- or it could be caused by the interaction of the two Bala Sharks if they don't agree with each other -- as males of many species will display. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" wrote: > > Hi!! I have two bala sharks that are under two inches in my 55 gallon tank. One of them looks healthy, nicely colored and all, while the other is quite pale in color and seems to be flashing and has a cloudy eye. I have heard that balas will react to ick by flashing. I had ick in the tank once before. I used some ick cure but still lost my 8 Platies. That was before I got the balas. My rainbow shark survived but it had quite the allergic reaction to the ick cure. > > I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. I would get test strips but bad sweater prevents me from traveling too far. Hopefully when it clears up I can grab some. > > Please, if anyone knows a possible cause could you tell me? I don't want the shark to die. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54448	From: Matthew	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" wrote: > Patrick is right in raising the temp. But I would go to 85 degrees and use one teaspoon of kosher salt per gallon of water. Allow for displacement of water by ornaments and decorations. This is old school but it works over a period of time. Kosher salt is cheaper than aquarium salt and can be gotten in any supermarket. > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" wrote: > > I have two bala sharks that are under two inches in my 55 gallon tank. > > So my first word of warning is that Bala sharks generally are poor aquarium fish for several reasons, but the main one is they simply get a lot bigger than most people can comfortable house. A healthy full grown Bala shark easily exceeds a foot in length. On top of that, they are schooling fish so to properly keep them you should have a group of them. And a group of 1-foot+ long fish needs a BIG aquarium. > > So you may want to rethink this choice of fish for your aquarium. That said... > > > > One of them looks healthy, nicely colored and all, while the other > > is quite pale in color and seems to be flashing and has a cloudy > > eye. I have heard that balas will react to ick by flashing. I had > > ick in the tank once before. I used some ick cure but still lost my > > 8 Platies. That was before I got the balas. My rainbow shark > > survived but it had quite the allergic reaction to the ick cure. > > So my first thought is that it would be unlikely to be ich if only one of the sharks has it and the other is perfectly fine. In addition, a cloudy eye is not usually a symptom of ich. Besides the two Balas and the Rainbow, anything else currently in the tank? > > > > I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. > > Why not today? And tomorrow? > > > > I would get test strips but bad sweater prevents me from > > traveling too far. > > ;) > > > > Please, if anyone knows a possible cause could you tell me? > > I don't want the shark to die. > > Do you know anything else about your water? pH, hardness, nitrites, ammonia, nitrates, etc? If not, when you go to the pet store, take a sample of water with you and ask them to test it. > > In the meantime, I would start partial water changes. Also, if you do think it might be ich, you may want to start raising the temperature in the tank. Get it above about 82°F and that is about where ich can be killed off from simply too high a temperature. If you have ich and your rainbow shark doesn't tolerate medication, "heat treating" is a safe way. And if not ich, you don't medicate unnecessarily. > > It may simply be something wrong with that one fish and not your tank as a whole with a problem. > > Patrick >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54449	From: Patrick	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" wrote: > Patrick is right in raising the temp. But I would go to 85 degrees Agreed. Rereading my own post I realized 82 was too low and I meant to say something like "mid 80s". I have very rarely had ich (maybe 3 times in almost 20 years of keeping fish), but have always found this method works great, is dirt cheap, and is a must when you have so called "scaleless" fish that do not do well with various medications, like Clown Loaches. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54450	From: Amber Larr	Date: 2/12/2013
Subject: Re: Bala Shark's Strange Behavior

I know they will need a big tank. I am willing to get at least a 125 gallon tank for them. Also, there is a single tiger barb in there with the three sharks. I will be adding three more tiger barbs in a few days. I just got them a little under a week ago so they are in my quarantine tank so I can make sure they are healthy. I could not do a PWC yesterday because when I noticed the fish's behavior it was too late at night to do anything like that. And now that I think about it, this fish has acted strange since I got it. It would not go out and eat food like the other one would. It would just hide in the corner behind the plants. After the water change, my rainbow shark has come out of hiding and is lazily chashing the other fish around. Nothing too aggressive. The rainbow is around 4 inches long now. Yes, I know the cloudy eye can be caused by water quality problems. I am trying to get to the store for a test kit but I still do not know when I will be able Bolton get there. Hopefully it will be this weekend at the latest. ------------------------------ On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 9:42 AM EST Patrick wrote: >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" wrote: >> I have two bala sharks that are under two inches in my 55 gallon tank. > >So my first word of warning is that Bala sharks generally are poor aquarium fish for several reasons, but the main one is they simply get a lot bigger than most people can comfortable house. A healthy full grown Bala shark easily exceeds a foot in length. On top of that, they are schooling fish so to properly keep them you should have a group of them. And a group of 1-foot+ long fish needs a BIG aquarium. > >So you may want to rethink this choice of fish for your aquarium. That said... > > >> One of them looks healthy, nicely colored and all, while the other >> is quite pale in color and seems to be flashing and has a cloudy >> eye. I have heard that balas will react to ick by flashing. I had >> ick in the tank once before. I used some ick cure but still lost my >> 8 Platies. That was before I got the balas. My rainbow shark >> survived but it had quite the allergic reaction to the ick cure. > >So my first thought is that it would be unlikely to be ich if only one of the sharks has it and the other is perfectly fine. In addition, a cloudy eye is not usually a symptom of ich. Besides the two Balas and the Rainbow, anything else currently in the tank? > > >> I will do a 50% water change tomorrow. > >Why not today? And tomorrow? > > >> I would get test strips but bad sweater prevents me from >> traveling too far. > >;) > > >> Please, if anyone knows a possible cause could you tell me? >> I don't want the shark to die. > >Do you know anything else about your water? pH, hardness, nitrites, ammonia, nitrates, etc? If not, when you go to the pet store, take a sample of water with you and ask them to test it. > >In the meantime, I would start partial water changes. Also, if you do think it might be ich, you may want to start raising the temperature in the tank. Get it above about 82°F and that is about where ich can be killed off from simply too high a temperature. If you have ich and your rainbow shark doesn't tolerate medication, "heat treating" is a safe way. And if not ich, you don't medicate unnecessarily. > >It may simply be something wrong with that one fish and not your tank as a whole with a problem. > >Patrick > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54451	From: reneap7040	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings

It is funny about Tiny.I do buckets to.I have no camera for my computer,sorry.Rene' --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Hi Rene, > > Welcome, we appear to have some things in common; I also have a 100 > gallon tank with 4 Goldfish, albeit the streamlined variety & mine are > called Apricot, Buttercup, Marmalade & Tiny. Apricot turns 10 this Spring & > his friends are not far behind. Would be very interested to know more about > your set-up & perhaps see some pictures if possible. > > John*<* > > > On 8 February 2013 13:38, Al Keep wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Welcome to the group Rene' > > I do things old school with buckets, > > so my back may stiffen just by thinking > > of a tank that size. :-)>>> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rene berghofer wrote: > > > > > > Hi' > > > I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. > > > 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live > > togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had them > > for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 > > year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54452	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings

Hi Rene', I used to use buckets when I had my fish in smaller tanks, variously 15 & 32 gallon but since getting my 100 gallon 5 years ago I have done it the easy way & plus I don't think my back would tolerate lifting 30 buckets of water every 3 days now so I use a length of clear PVC hose & run it from my tank to the bath & simply suck the end to start the flow. My tank is set a couple of feet higher than the bath & once I have emptied about 25 gallons I just connect the end of the hose to a small pump in my aged water tub & fill the tank back up. The entire process takes about an hour which gives me ample time to do all the other bits of maintenance on my system have a cup of tea. My main filtration is a 15 gallon wet/dry loaded with nylon pot scrubbers, there are 2 powerful pumps that turn the tank over 10 times per hour plus a UV steriliser sub-system running on a small Eheim canister. What filtration do you use & how much water do you change at one time? your arms must be tired with all those buckets! John*<o)))< * On 13 February 2013 19:06, reneap7040 <reneap7040@...> wrote: > ** > > > It is funny about Tiny.I do buckets to.I have no camera for my > computer,sorry.Rene' > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > Hi Rene, > > > > Welcome, we appear to have some things in common; I also have a 100 > > gallon tank with 4 Goldfish, albeit the streamlined variety & mine are > > called Apricot, Buttercup, Marmalade & Tiny. Apricot turns 10 this > Spring & > > his friends are not far behind. Would be very interested to know more > about > > your set-up & perhaps see some pictures if possible. > > > > John*<* > > > > > > On 8 February 2013 13:38, Al Keep wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Welcome to the group Rene' > > > I do things old school with buckets, > > > so my back may stiffen just by thinking > > > of a tank that size. :-)>>> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, rene berghofer wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi' > > > > I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. > > > > 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live > > > togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had > them > > > for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 > > > year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54453	From: vegeta38_99	Date: 2/13/2013
Subject: Snails and slime

I have two small black water snails that often produce a thick slab of slime on their sides. What is the slime and why do they produce it when they stick to the container walls?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54454	From: Noura	Date: 2/14/2013
Subject: Re: Greetings

Here I use the pump IN THE TANK, to pump the water into a sink "don't like the smell of fish water on the bathroom floor!". When 40% of the water is emptied, I turn the pump off and connect the other end of the hose to the faucet. My 20G tank can be done is less than 15 minutes this way. When filter maintenance is due "isn't this what a fish keeper hates most about the fish care?!!" I take the filter out while the tank is half empty to clean it in a bucket containing about a gallon of the same tank's water, it never touches faucet water unless a tube is clogged. When I want to vacuum the gravel, it's hubby's turn to give me a hand in lifting buckets. THAT's what HE hates most about fish keeping! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 3:04 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: ***SPAM*** Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Greetings Hi Rene', I used to use buckets when I had my fish in smaller tanks, variously 15 & 32 gallon but since getting my 100 gallon 5 years ago I have done it the easy way & plus I don't think my back would tolerate lifting 30 buckets of water every 3 days now so I use a length of clear PVC hose & run it from my tank to the bath & simply suck the end to start the flow. My tank is set a couple of feet higher than the bath & once I have emptied about 25 gallons I just connect the end of the hose to a small pump in my aged water tub & fill the tank back up. The entire process takes about an hour which gives me ample time to do all the other bits of maintenance on my system have a cup of tea. My main filtration is a 15 gallon wet/dry loaded with nylon pot scrubbers, there are 2 powerful pumps that turn the tank over 10 times per hour plus a UV steriliser sub-system running on a small Eheim canister. What filtration do you use & how much water do you change at one time? your arms must be tired with all those buckets! John*< * On 13 February 2013 19:06, reneap7040 reneap7040@... <mailto:reneap7040%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > ** > > > It is funny about Tiny.I do buckets to.I have no camera for my > computer,sorry.Rene' > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > Hi Rene, > > > > Welcome, we appear to have some things in common; I also have a 100 > > gallon tank with 4 Goldfish, albeit the streamlined variety & mine are > > called Apricot, Buttercup, Marmalade & Tiny. Apricot turns 10 this > Spring & > > his friends are not far behind. Would be very interested to know more > about > > your set-up & perhaps see some pictures if possible. > > > > John*<* > > > > > > On 8 February 2013 13:38, Al Keep wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Welcome to the group Rene' > > > I do things old school with buckets, > > > so my back may stiffen just by thinking > > > of a tank that size. :-)>>> > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , rene berghofer wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi' > > > > I'm Rene'.I am a goldfish man.I got 4. > > > > 2 black moors,1 calico ruyikin and a calico fantail.They all live > > > togther in my 100 gallon tank.They are all between 5-8 inches.I had > them > > > for some years now.Their names are Monstro,Tiny,Target and Spirit.(My 6 > > > year old ,named them exp. for Spirit.I named him/her.) > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54455	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 2/15/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi Ray & Dawn, Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I did just that. Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ st <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. John<o)))< <br>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Dawn,<br>> <br>> As Valisneria, just like most other aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is successful in having their Valisneria flower.<br>> <br>> Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54456	From: Ray	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi John, Congrats on your very good success with your Jungle Vallisneria. When plants find conditions much to their liking, they'll certainly thrive and flower. I don't know if you'll be able to cultivate new ones from seeds, but it sure shows these plants are doing well. Good thing you didn't give up on the Val last year. Really hard to say though, after all this time, whether their flowering came from the maintenance procedure you made way back then, or whether the tank conditions just improved enough by now to have this influence on them, after all this time. In any case, the root trimming certainly hasn't been detrimental to them, as is obvious by their flourishing now. Yes, plant cover will give fishes a sense of security. It allows them to display a more natural behavior. As for the plants, once the tank gets firmly established plants will be found to do very well feeding off of the breaking down of whatever fish droppings are allowed to penetrate into the substrate after the major portion is vacuumed off, and there will usually be enough fish waste in a long-established tank, to promote a more luxurious plant growth. Best of luck, and thanks for the pics. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > did just that. > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > st > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > John<o)))< > > > <br>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> > wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Dawn,<br>> <br>> As Valisneria, just like most other > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > successful in having their Valisneria flower.<br>> <br>> Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54457	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi John, congrats on your success with the plants! Could you refresh my memory and tell us how you potted them? Did you use a new type of soil? I know you told me once but I forgot... Thanks a lot, Nora --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > did just that. > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > st > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > John<o)))< > > > <br>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> > wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Dawn,<br>> <br>> As Valisneria, just like most other > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > successful in having their Valisneria flower.<br>> <br>> Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54458	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/16/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi John, Thanks for sharing the pictures of your val flowers... it's looking great! Keep up the good work! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > did just that. > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > st > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > John<o)))< > > > <br>--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> > wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Dawn,<br>> <br>> As Valisneria, just like most other > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > successful in having their Valisneria flower.<br>> <br>> Ray > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54459	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi Nora, All of my plants are set in regular garden clay pots of varying sizes using TetraPlant Complete Substrate. It is quite expensive to buy initially but in time it proves very reasonable because you can use it over & over again but you have to cover the top of it with marbles or pebbles. Otherwise the fish will soon dig it all out & mess up your tank. Also, like regular garden plants you need to put a pebble over the hole in the bottom of the pot, otherwise the sandy substrate will gradually come out. I've been using this stuff for several years now & have no complaints. John*<o)))<* On 16 February 2013 17:30, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > congrats on your success with the plants! Could you refresh my memory and > tell us how you potted them? Did you use a new type of soil? > I know you told me once but I forgot... > > Thanks a lot, > Nora > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > > did just that. > > > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li>> > st > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l>> > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > > > John< > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > As Valisneria, just like most other > > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > > successful in having their Valisneria flower. > > > > Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54460	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Thanks Ray, I think the reason for the flowering may be tank conditions + the root trimming but either way I am very pleased with the result. I didn't even know Vallis flowered until I saw this! Several runners have recently cone from the main tubs & are setting up roots in the actual gravel so I am leaving them be, if they do start to develop a root-mat under hte gravel that can only be a good thing as the increased vegetation should continue to cut my NO3 down even further. John*<o)))< * On 16 February 2013 16:54, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Congrats on your very good success with your Jungle Vallisneria. When > plants find conditions much to their liking, they'll certainly thrive and > flower. I don't know if you'll be able to cultivate new ones from seeds, > but it sure shows these plants are doing well. > > Good thing you didn't give up on the Val last year. Really hard to say > though, after all this time, whether their flowering came from the > maintenance procedure you made way back then, or whether the tank > conditions just improved enough by now to have this influence on them, > after all this time. In any case, the root trimming certainly hasn't been > detrimental to them, as is obvious by their flourishing now. > > Yes, plant cover will give fishes a sense of security. It allows them to > display a more natural behavior. As for the plants, once the tank gets > firmly established plants will be found to do very well feeding off of the > breaking down of whatever fish droppings are allowed to penetrate into the > substrate after the major portion is vacuumed off, and there will usually > be enough fish waste in a long-established tank, to promote a more > luxurious plant growth. Best of luck, and thanks for the pics. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" wrote: > > > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > > did just that. > > > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li>> > st > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l>> > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > > > John< > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" > > wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > As Valisneria, just like most other > > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > > successful in having their Valisneria flower. > > > > Ray > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54461	From: Ray	Date: 2/17/2013
Subject: Re: Yo Dawn! [Flowering Vallis]

Hi John, Undoubtedly, your choice of substrate for these plants contributed immensely to the way they're flourishing, as this planting medium has just about every nutrient needed by them. Some hobbyists replace this substrate no later than every two years using PlantTabs towards the end of this period, while others replace it at about a year into using it. Reports are that its nutrients don't last much longer than a year, but with you having the plants potted it should be very easy to give these plants new substrate when that time comes. For those new plants that are setting up via runners in the tank's substrate outside of the terra cotta pots, you could give them PlantTabs to give them a boost, unless you're using the TetraPlant Complete in the whole tank too. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Nora, > > All of my plants are set in regular garden clay pots of varying sizes > using TetraPlant Complete Substrate. It is quite expensive to buy initially > but in time it proves very reasonable because you can use it over & over > again but you have to cover the top of it with marbles or pebbles. > Otherwise the fish will soon dig it all out & mess up your tank. Also, like > regular garden plants you need to put a pebble over the hole in the bottom > of the pot, otherwise the sandy substrate will gradually come out. I've > been using this stuff for several years now & have no complaints. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 16 February 2013 17:30, nonstopmom888 <ehebens@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > congrats on your success with the plants! Could you refresh my memory and > > tell us how you potted them? Did you use a new type of soil? > > I know you told me once but I forgot... > > > > Thanks a lot, > > Nora > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrbushy2003" wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray & Dawn, > > > > > > Rather than start afresh, I thought I would resurrect this old thread > > > as it contains reference to flowering Vallis plants & guess what-my > > > plants are doing just that! A few weeks ago I spotted the first runner & > > > it was already about 1.5 feet long & growing in a corkscrew kind of > > > coiled up stem. At the end is a small, attractive 3 petalled flower that > > > lays on the surface. Just now there must be almost 10 of these things > > > in my tank coming from both my planted pots of Vallis so conditions must > > > be greatly improved since I got some excellent advice & help off Dawn. > > > Before that my Vallis plants were a waste of time & they kept dying, > > > Dawn suggested I trim the roots & re-pot them so with nothing to loose I > > > did just that. > > > > > > Now, well over a year later my 2 large planters are bulging with healthy > > > green straight Vallis which must be at least 2 feet long. As I have one > > > pot either side of my tank the outlet current has formed the two lots > > > onto a lovely green arch that the fish love to sit under mid-water. I > > > guess having the cover gives them an added sense of security. I have > > > just uploaded 3 pictures of these flowers & they should be visible here: > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li\ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/li>> > > st > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l\ > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/l>> > > ist> once they have been approved by our moderators. > > > > > > John< > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dawn, > > > > > > As Valisneria, just like most other > > > aquatic plants, have only two modes of reproduction -- a) via > > > pollenation between two plants' tiny flowers held above the surface, and > > > b) via runners grown from the original (single) plant, I fail to see how > > > growing two different species of Valisneria in one pot could result in > > > the 2 plants crossbreeding since hardly anyone cultivates Valisneria > > > from seeds. The runners that a "mother" plant sends out along the > > > substrate to propagate additional plants is a result only of this > > > original ("mother") plant and is completely independent of any other > > > plants around it -- even other Valisneria of the same species. For a > > > cross-breed to occur, it would have to come from the cross-pollenation > > > of two plants' flowers, resulting in seeds -- which of course is > > > possible -- but who starts new Val from seeds unless it's some > > > horticulturist trying to develop a new variety of Val. Otherwise, it's > > > not very practical, nor is this type of cultivation very successful at > > > all, by the average hobbyist. I've never heard of any hobbyist > > > cultivating Val from the seeds of their flowers. For that matter, it > > > doesn't happen that often at all, that the average hobbyist is > > > successful in having their Valisneria flower. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54462	From: mark	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: FX5 Fluval media help!

Hello folks, First time poster here. I have a new 180 gallon tank Cichlid tank I am setting up. 3-4 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of the tank. I just bought a brand new FX5 filter and my question is-- what exact type of media should I be placing in the 3 trays of the filter (and in what order)? Everyone seems to have a different opinion. Can anyone give me best practices of what works for them? Also- where do you recommend I pick the media up? Any help would be great and I wish you all an awesome day!!! Mike ttmcampion@...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54463	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: decor

I was told that copper pennies would kill the little snails. What would happen if clean, boiled, change [$.10, $.05, would be put in a tank. The new pennies look great. Not having any  trouble with my guppies at all so far. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54464	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: New member, new tank

Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. I haven't had a tank setup for about 20 years. I'm going fresh water, 20-25 gal, no live plants. I've done my research locally and the new things to go with a new tank are amazing! I've been told that an external water filter is now better than the under gravel filter I used to use. Heater, pump, bubbler, all seem to be the about same. The external filters seem to have high maintenance costs. What are your opinions on the subject of filters? Thanks for the input. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54465	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: FX5 Fluval media help!

What does the manufacturer recommend? I have Eheim and Rena canisters. I do sponges in the bottom, and sintered glass in the center and top. At the very top there is a fine filter pad. I use nylon pot scrubbers in center and top for a couple of the filters which seems to work well too. A LOT cheaper. Crushed coral in one tray for some filters to avoid having it as a substrate. I buy supplies via online vendors like Drs. Foster and Smith, Big Al’s and That Fish Place every six months when they have free shipping. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mark Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 10:03 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] FX5 Fluval media help! Hello folks, First time poster here. I have a new 180 gallon tank Cichlid tank I am setting up. 3-4 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of the tank. I just bought a brand new FX5 filter and my question is-- what exact type of media should I be placing in the 3 trays of the filter (and in what order)? Everyone seems to have a different opinion. Can anyone give me best practices of what works for them? Also- where do you recommend I pick the media up? Any help would be great and I wish you all an awesome day!!! Mike ttmcampion@... <mailto:ttmcampion%40hotmail.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54466	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

I like a hang-on-back filter for a tank that size. Just don’t replace the cartridges like they tell you weekly rinse and reuse. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daydreamdesign13 Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] New member, new tank Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. I haven't had a tank setup for about 20 years. I'm going fresh water, 20-25 gal, no live plants. I've done my research locally and the new things to go with a new tank are amazing! I've been told that an external water filter is now better than the under gravel filter I used to use. Heater, pump, bubbler, all seem to be the about same. The external filters seem to have high maintenance costs. What are your opinions on the subject of filters? Thanks for the input. Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54467	From: Brian	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: decor

I once killed almost all the fish in my aquarium by putting change in the tank. Don't do it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54468	From: Al Keep	Date: 2/19/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

I like my aqua clear hang on backs. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I like a hang-on-back filter for a tank that size. Just don't replace the > cartridges like they tell you weekly rinse and reuse. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of daydreamdesign13 > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 7:30 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] New member, new tank > > > > > > Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. > > I haven't had a tank setup for about 20 years. I'm going fresh water, 20-25 > gal, no live plants. I've done my research locally and the new things to go > with a new tank are amazing! I've been told that an external water filter is > now better than the under gravel filter I used to use. Heater, pump, > bubbler, all seem to be the about same. The external filters seem to have > high maintenance costs. > > What are your opinions on the subject of filters? > Thanks for the input. > Deb > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54469	From: Patrick	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" wrote: > I like my aqua clear hang on backs. I second AquaClear hang on the back filters. They are very affordable, dependable and they use a fairly simply basket type system that allows for a wide range of media (you are not locked into an expensive, proprietary, ineffective cartridge system). I ran a couple of sponges in my AquaClears and just rinse them out once in a while and reuse. I have been using the same sponges for 10+ years. So my media costs are virtually zero. And water changes are cheaper than activated carbon, which I only use in specific situations. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54470	From: Ava	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!

This may be long, and I apologize. When I first got my axolotl, my tank wasn't quite finished cycling, and ammonia was a tad high, but not at dangerous levels. After about a week, the water cleared up and my readings on test kits were normal. (I used water conditioner and a bacteria supplement) It's been over a month now. It's a 10 gallon tank, though I only have it filled up around 2/3 (7 gallons worth about) of the way, my little guy isn't much of a swimmer, he prefers to crawl around the bottom. I do regular water changes about once a week I take out 2 gallons worth and replace it with tap water with some water conditioner, and I occasionally drop in a few crystals of aquarium salt. I'm really good with removing waste, and he always appears to eat all of his food. I have a standard 10 gallon HOB filter (not a bio one), and an air stone in there to keep a little water movement. Around 2 weeks ago, I realized that my little guy wasn't very active and his appetite had lessened. Following a simple pH test, I realized that my pH was high. I couldn't fathom why, but I simply put in some pH down. After about a day, he was back to normal. A few days ago, I realized his water was a tad cloudy. At first I assumed that he was playing and kicked up some sand (it's really fine so takes a while to settle), but once the cloudiness didn't go away I did an ammonia reading. IT WAS CRAZY HIGH. Around 8ppm! It was so high I literally looked at my little guy and asked him how he wasn't dead yet! Freaking out, I immediately put in some more water conditioner and a few crystals of aquarium salt. I then went to test our untreated tap water. The ammonia was high, around 2ppm, but not AS high as in my tank. I then set two buckets of tap water to the side, treated them with water conditioner, and let them sit overnight. I tested the ammonia in the buckets the next morning, and it barely budged! I went to my local pet store with a water sample for a free test to see if anything else was out of wack. She said my nitrates (or nitrites, one or the other, she didn't seem too sure of herself) were a tad high, but not at dangerous levels. At the pet store they basically told me to do everything that I've already been doing... But that's obviously not working. Currently I'm doing daily water changes of about 2 gallons, and treating my water with water conditioner, and a little extra bacteria supplement. ...Did my cycle crash? Am I doing something wrong? Ideas as to why this happened? I have no live plants in there because I hope to move him to a bigger tank soon, and don't want plants to root themselves and have to be torn out. I was hoping I could achieve the same thing by just adding the bacteria supplement. The thing that confuses me most, is that my axolotl seems perfectly fine. I never would assume something was wrong with him by the way he looks or acts. I know with fish you can tell easily that water levels are off because of their behavior. Everyone is telling me to calm down, that axolotls are hardy and he'll be fine, but I can't help but be afraid that I'll lose him. Am I freaking out too much? Again, sorry it was so long, I just want to be sure that all detail is there. Any ideas or tips will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54471	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor

I have to agree with Brian, that won't poison just the snails but the fish too. You may not see evidence of it immediately in regards to the fish but it is still toxic. By doing such a thing you are introducing heavy metals to the water. There is a reason why water conditioners treat to detoxify heavy metals... Also when dealing with copper, once it is introduced to an aquarium it can/will leave a residue in the tank that makes it unsafe for inverts from that time forward. That means not only snails but shrimps, crabs, and any sensitive and scaleless fish, etc. also. Very bad idea. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > I was told that copper pennies would kill the little snails. > > What would happen if clean, boiled, change [$.10, $.05, would be put in a tank. The new pennies look great. Not having any  trouble with my guppies at all so far. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54472	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Hang on back (HOB) filters are less maintenance than undergravel filters and they offer more types of filtration, which is why they have become so popular. Undergravel filters offer biological filtration only, but the plates that sit under the gravel need to be cleaned underneath them regularly, especially if no live plants are being kept in the tank to utilize the trapped "muck"/organic debris, which is plant food and will, over time raise nitrate levels and cause a multitude of problems such as a crash of pH, rise in ammonia, etc. HOB filters offer not only biological filtration but also mechanical and chemical filtration, keeping the tank cleaner and safer for the animals. Gravel vacs are still needed, however, there are no plates at the bottom to trap the debris, so gravel vacs can easily remove the buildup from the substrate to avoid a buildup that can create water quality issues. For a smaller tank such as 20 - 25 gallons this is usually the easiest and least expensive method of filtration. Cartridges should only need to be replaced monthly and can be rinsed in dirty tank water during water changes weekly to get rid of any debris that is trapped in the filter media. The other benefit of HOB filters is that they allow for various different types of media to be used according to an aquarium's specific needs. My favorite of the HOB filters is the Aqueon brand. The pump inside these filters is submerged in the water rather than located in the box of the filter and they offer good circulation/water flow while being easy to maintain at the same time. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "daydreamdesign13" <daydreamdesign13@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. > > I haven't had a tank setup for about 20 years. I'm going fresh water, 20-25 gal, no live plants. I've done my research locally and the new things to go with a new tank are amazing! I've been told that an external water filter is now better than the under gravel filter I used to use. Heater, pump, bubbler, all seem to be the about same. The external filters seem to have high maintenance costs. > > What are your opinions on the subject of filters? > Thanks for the input. > Deb >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54473	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor

Hi Nancy, Just about any kind of metal will corrode in water given time & that will introduce toxins into your system. John*<o)))<* On 20 February 2013 18:03, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have to agree with Brian, that won't poison just the snails but the fish > too. You may not see evidence of it immediately in regards to the fish but > it is still toxic. By doing such a thing you are introducing heavy metals > to the water. There is a reason why water conditioners treat to detoxify > heavy metals... Also when dealing with copper, once it is introduced to an > aquarium it can/will leave a residue in the tank that makes it unsafe for > inverts from that time forward. That means not only snails but shrimps, > crabs, and any sensitive and scaleless fish, etc. also. > Very bad idea. > > Dawn > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Lee wrote: > > > > I was told that copper pennies would kill the little snails. > > > > What would happen if clean, boiled, change [$.10, $.05, would be put in > a tank. The new pennies look great. Not having any trouble with my guppies > at all so far. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54474	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Hi Deb, Welcome to the group. On a previous tank I used a couple of Eheim 2026 canisters & I still use one of them on my UV sterilizer system now. I can't really fault them, they do exactly what they are designed to do & are almost silent. I have loaded both baskets with regular nylon pot scrubbers & they have been in use for about 7 years as they are virtually indestructible. Even the blue sponge between baskets which Eheim suggest replacing 'periodically' [well they would wouldn't they!] is still going strong. The only thing that I replace every 6-8 weeks is the white polyester foam pads at the top & I don't buy the Eheim ones, I make my own. A huge sheet of this stuff costs pennies & you will make dozens from it, should be available at any upholstery suppliers as it is the same stuff used for filling soft toys & stuffing pillows. I also use this polyester in my wet/dry in the final water polishing compartment. John*<o)))<* On 20 February 2013 18:13, dawnshungryeyes4u2c < dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hang on back (HOB) filters are less maintenance than undergravel filters > and they offer more types of filtration, which is why they have become so > popular. Undergravel filters offer biological filtration only, but the > plates that sit under the gravel need to be cleaned underneath them > regularly, especially if no live plants are being kept in the tank to > utilize the trapped "muck"/organic debris, which is plant food and will, > over time raise nitrate levels and cause a multitude of problems such as a > crash of pH, rise in ammonia, etc. > HOB filters offer not only biological filtration but also mechanical and > chemical filtration, keeping the tank cleaner and safer for the animals. > Gravel vacs are still needed, however, there are no plates at the bottom to > trap the debris, so gravel vacs can easily remove the buildup from the > substrate to avoid a buildup that can create water quality issues. > > For a smaller tank such as 20 - 25 gallons this is usually the easiest and > least expensive method of filtration. Cartridges should only need to be > replaced monthly and can be rinsed in dirty tank water during water changes > weekly to get rid of any debris that is trapped in the filter media. > The other benefit of HOB filters is that they allow for various different > types of media to be used according to an aquarium's specific needs. > My favorite of the HOB filters is the Aqueon brand. The pump inside these > filters is submerged in the water rather than located in the box of the > filter and they offer good circulation/water flow while being easy to > maintain at the same time. > > Dawn > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "daydreamdesign13" wrote: > > > > Hi everyone! I'm new to this group. > > > > I haven't had a tank setup for about 20 years. I'm going fresh water, > 20-25 gal, no live plants. I've done my research locally and the new things > to go with a new tank are amazing! I've been told that an external water > filter is now better than the under gravel filter I used to use. Heater, > pump, bubbler, all seem to be the about same. The external filters seem to > have high maintenance costs. > > > > What are your opinions on the subject of filters? > > Thanks for the input. > > Deb > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54475	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!

Hi Ava, Firstly I would say that I have no experience with Axolotls & am just giving you general opinion from fish keeping experience based on what you tell us about your tank. Hopefully one of the experts can jump in shortly & set you straight. The higher pH would probably have been caused by the poor water quality, using any of those products to raise or lower pH is a lottery because they can have a cumulative effect & not kick in until you have put a lot in-then it swings too far & you are forced to use another product to reverse the process & so on all the time adding more & more chemicals to your water. Certainly with fish a stable pH is far better than trying to keep a perfect pH only to have it swinging around all the time which causes stress. The cloudy water will likely have been a bacterial bloom caused by the tank having a mini cycle. Large water changes will usually take care of that but it seems your local water supply is high in ammonia which is unusual. Are you on a mains supply or well water? Check the website of your local water company, call them up & explain what you have found, try testing the water of a couple of your neighbours & that should tell you if it is something peculiar to your supply or in general. Just a thought but when you went to your LFS did their water test high with ammonia & did they test your water for ammonia? I'm wondering if your test kit is old or perhaps not working properly. Do you have the strips or a liquid test? strips are not very accurate. John*<o)))< * On 20 February 2013 14:59, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > This may be long, and I apologize. > > When I first got my axolotl, my tank wasn't quite finished cycling, and > ammonia was a tad high, but not at dangerous levels. > After about a week, the water cleared up and my readings on test kits were > normal. (I used water conditioner and a bacteria supplement) > It's been over a month now. > It's a 10 gallon tank, though I only have it filled up around 2/3 (7 > gallons worth about) of the way, my little guy isn't much of a swimmer, he > prefers to crawl around the bottom. > I do regular water changes about once a week I take out 2 gallons worth > and replace it with tap water with some water conditioner, and I > occasionally drop in a few crystals of aquarium salt. I'm really good with > removing waste, and he always appears to eat all of his food. > I have a standard 10 gallon HOB filter (not a bio one), and an air stone > in there to keep a little water movement. > Around 2 weeks ago, I realized that my little guy wasn't very active and > his appetite had lessened. Following a simple pH test, I realized that my > pH was high. I couldn't fathom why, but I simply put in some pH down. After > about a day, he was back to normal. > A few days ago, I realized his water was a tad cloudy. At first I assumed > that he was playing and kicked up some sand (it's really fine so takes a > while to settle), but once the cloudiness didn't go away I did an ammonia > reading. IT WAS CRAZY HIGH. Around 8ppm! It was so high I literally looked > at my little guy and asked him how he wasn't dead yet! Freaking out, I > immediately put in some more water conditioner and a few crystals of > aquarium salt. > I then went to test our untreated tap water. The ammonia was high, around > 2ppm, but not AS high as in my tank. I then set two buckets of tap water to > the side, treated them with water conditioner, and let them sit overnight. > I tested the ammonia in the buckets the next morning, and it barely budged! > I went to my local pet store with a water sample for a free test to see if > anything else was out of wack. She said my nitrates (or nitrites, one or > the other, she didn't seem too sure of herself) were a tad high, but not at > dangerous levels. At the pet store they basically told me to do everything > that I've already been doing... But that's obviously not working. > > Currently I'm doing daily water changes of about 2 gallons, and treating > my water with water conditioner, and a little extra bacteria supplement. > ...Did my cycle crash? Am I doing something wrong? Ideas as to why this > happened? > I have no live plants in there because I hope to move him to a bigger tank > soon, and don't want plants to root themselves and have to be torn out. I > was hoping I could achieve the same thing by just adding the bacteria > supplement. > > The thing that confuses me most, is that my axolotl seems perfectly fine. > I never would assume something was wrong with him by the way he looks or > acts. I know with fish you can tell easily that water levels are off > because of their behavior. Everyone is telling me to calm down, that > axolotls are hardy and he'll be fine, but I can't help but be afraid that > I'll lose him. Am I freaking out too much? > > Again, sorry it was so long, I just want to be sure that all detail is > there. Any ideas or tips will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54476	From: Amber Larr	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: decor

Why not take the pennies out and try the lettuce method? It is better than just plainly killing the snails. Think about it: You kill all of these snails. Now what??? They rot, that's what. It is like having a bunch of dead fish just sitting in the bottom of your tank. What you do is run a lettuce leaf, or several, under some hot water just before you shut the light off. Leave it, or them, in the water all night and take it out in the morning along with all of the snails on it. You might have to stick it under something so it does not float. I found this method by searching for 'snails in aquarium' on Google. The first link, which was aquaticcommunity, was the one I clicked on. Good luck. ---------------------------- >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: >> >> I was told that copper pennies would kill the little snails.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54477	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/20/2013
Subject: Re: FX5 Fluval media help!

Hi Mark, I use nylon pot scrubbers in both trays of my small Eheim canister & my big wet/dry has over 150 of them. They hold tons of good bacteria & are virtually indestructible-oh yes, they're incredibly cheap too! John*<o)))<* On 19 February 2013 15:02, mark <mmc_silly@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello folks, > > First time poster here. I have a new 180 gallon tank Cichlid tank I am > setting up. 3-4 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of the tank. I just > bought a brand new FX5 filter and my question is-- what exact type of media > should I be placing in the 3 trays of the filter (and in what order)? > Everyone seems to have a different opinion. > > Can anyone give me best practices of what works for them? Also- where do > you recommend I pick the media up? > > Any help would be great and I wish you all an awesome day!!! > > Mike > ttmcampion@... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54478	From: Ray	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: decor

Hi Nancy, I have to totally agree with Brian and Dawn. Copper especially (above all other metals), in a high enough concentration -- and it doesn't take very much -- is highly toxic to all aquatic forms. Whoever told you that copperv pennies would kill your little snails was absolutely right, but also irresponsible for not telling you that if left in the tank just a little too long, and allowed to dissolve just a little bit more, it will kill eveerything in your tank -- and unless you continually test for it and know exactly at which level it becomes toxic to everything beyond snail (which would include all other invertibrates), your fishes will be dead. It's like you taking arsenic in small doses. It may not kill you at such low levels, but taking larger quanities of it will surely put you in the ground, as we all know it's toxic. So where do you stop, or for that matter, why use it at all? This belief of using copper (and it was a viable belief if done knowledgably) for certain aquarium applications goes back to the earlier days of the hobby. Aquarists would use copper pennies in their tanks to cure Velvet disease, and it worked very effectively. But, it was also well known that it was dangerous to use as it was not only uncontrollable but difficult (if not near impossible) to know when leaving them in just a little too long -- and there was no set time to know how long to keep the pennies in as they dissolve at different rates depending on each aquarium's different pH levels. There were no copper test kits back then to monitor it's level. Many fish being treated for Velvet were lost due to the aquarists taking these risks. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Lee <msbutterfly770@...> wrote: > > I was told that copper pennies would kill the little snails. > > What would happen if clean, boiled, change [$.10, $.05, would be put in a tank. The new pennies look great. Not having any  trouble with my guppies at all so far. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54479	From: Patrick	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > Just a thought but when you went to your LFS did their water test high with > ammonia & did they test your water for ammonia? I'm wondering if your test > kit is old or perhaps not working properly. Do you have the strips or a > liquid test? strips are not very accurate. This was my first thought as well reading the original post. Then when they said they took a sample into the pet store, I thought, oh good this will verify if the ammonia reading was real or not. Then the post didn''t mention if the ammonia was read or not. Argggh! ;) To Ava, Are you on a public water supply (not a private well)? Are you in the USA? If yes & yes, have you tried calling your local water department and asking them about the ammonia levels you are seeing (assuming you can verify with a new kit or from the pet store that your ammonia reading are correct) and why the system went from no ammonia to 2ppm?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54480	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/21/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Wow! I am surprised everyone likes the hanging filter. And such great suggestions for replacing/cleaning the filters! You guys are good & really helpful! A friend of mine said that if I had any baby fish they would get sucked up in that kind of filter as opposed to the under gravel filter. Any comments on that? Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54481	From: deenerzz	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Hi Deb, I place a sponge filter over the intake tube. This will keep fry from getting stuck as well as adding a prefilter and another beneficial bacteria colony for bio filtration. Mike -----Original Message----- From: daydreamdesign13 <daydreamdesign13@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 7:21 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New member, new tank Wow! I am surprised everyone likes the hanging filter. And such great suggestions for replacing/cleaning the filters! You guys are good & really helpful! A friend of mine said that if I had any baby fish they would get sucked up in that kind of filter as opposed to the under gravel filter. Any comments on that? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54482	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Slip a pre-filter sponge over the intake. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daydreamdesign13 Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New member, new tank Wow! I am surprised everyone likes the hanging filter. And such great suggestions for replacing/cleaning the filters! You guys are good & really helpful! A friend of mine said that if I had any baby fish they would get sucked up in that kind of filter as opposed to the under gravel filter. Any comments on that? Deb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54483	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

It's been so long since I had a tank I feel like a beginner again. You guys have quick & easy suggestions. Looks like I joined the right group. Thank for all the help! I'll let you know how it goes. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54484	From: Ava	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: Dangerous ammonia spike? Help!

I have API's liquid test kit--and it doesn't expire until 2017. The pet store confirmed my ammonia spike as well, but didn't offer any new ideas as to how to fix it other than what I've been doing. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Just a thought but when you went to your LFS did their water test high with > > ammonia & did they test your water for ammonia? I'm wondering if your test > > kit is old or perhaps not working properly. Do you have the strips or a > > liquid test? strips are not very accurate. > > This was my first thought as well reading the original post. Then when they said they took a sample into the pet store, I thought, oh good this will verify if the ammonia reading was real or not. Then the post didn''t mention if the ammonia was read or not. Argggh! ;) > > To Ava, > > Are you on a public water supply (not a private well)? Are you in the USA? If yes & yes, have you tried calling your local water department and asking them about the ammonia levels you are seeing (assuming you can verify with a new kit or from the pet store that your ammonia reading are correct) and why the system went from no ammonia to 2ppm? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54485	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

Hi Deb, You can even use a small piece of pantyhose/tights over the inlet. John*<o)))< * On 22 February 2013 18:35, daydreamdesign13 <daydreamdesign13@...>wrote: > ** > > > > > It's been so long since I had a tank I feel like a beginner again. You > guys have quick & easy suggestions. > > Looks like I joined the right group. Thank for all the help! I'll let you > know how it goes. > > Deb > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54486	From: reneap7040	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: New member, new tank

I do the same.Rene'. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Deb, > > Welcome to the group. On a previous tank I used a couple of Eheim 2026 > canisters & I still use one of them on my UV sterilizer system now. I can't > really fault them, they do exactly what they are designed to do & are > almost silent. I have loaded both baskets with regular nylon pot scrubbers > & they have been in use for about 7 years as they are virtually > indestructible. Even the blue sponge between baskets which Eheim suggest > replacing 'periodically' [well they would wouldn't they!] is still going > strong. The only thing that I replace every 6-8 weeks is the white > polyester foam pads at the top & I don't buy the Eheim ones, I make my own. > A huge sheet of this stuff costs pennies & you will make dozens from it, > should be available at any upholstery suppliers as it is the same stuff > used for filling soft toys & stuffing pillows. I also use this polyester in > my wet/dry in the final water polishing compartment. > > > John*<o)))<* >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54487	From: goldmental	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: ph level in water

Hello, I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap water mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help me with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank or shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready can somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54488	From: deenerzz	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

Hello, Are these wild caught discus? Are you trying to breed them? If they are thriving at the current pH they may not need to have the pH lowered. Especially if they are a domestic strain used to a higher pH.. Mike -----Original Message----- From: goldmental <devgiriprasad@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 3:19 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] ph level in water Hello, I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap water mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help me with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank or shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready can somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54489	From: Ray	Date: 2/22/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

Hi Dev, Are these new arrivals being expected to yet arrive, or have they already arrived and present? If you're still expecting them to arrive, aak the sender -- or local fish store, if you're planning on buying them soon -- what their pH is. If already on hand, test their water before doing any changes. They may be as well suited to your pH 8.2 water as are these Discus you've had for 2 years. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of > the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to > keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap water > mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down > considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my > other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with > 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help me > with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank or > shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready can > somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank you. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54490	From: goldmental	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

-- i wish to thank both mike and ray for their response the discus i am getting is not wild i am getting them shortly from a reputed breeder with in my country I am getting them in 10 days from now though my present discus are doing well at 8 ph level I am not sure of the new arrivals I want to lower ph level for them I have succeeded in bringing down hardness of the water but ph level is constant. Since you people are more knowledgeable and experienced in handling situation of this kind I request you to help me or should I take a chance and let them into the new tanks which have been recycling for the past 20 days. Thank you. - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@...> wrote: > > > Hello, > > I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of > the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to > keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap water > mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down > considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my > other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with > 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help me > with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank or > shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready can > somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank you. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54491	From: Ray	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

Hi again Devgiri, Without knowing what pH this reputed breeder's Discus is in, why would you want to adjust your pH? It's possible that these fish you're expecting are in alkaline water and if so, could be acclimated to your pH. Before you lower your pH for these fish, find out from the breeder, what his pH is. Only if it's much lower, then you can plan on lowering your pH to more closely match his - which may need to be done in this case, depending on his pH. Until then, don't do anything until you find out his water parameters. I'm not sure at all, what you mean by the new tanks having been "recycling" for the past 20 days. Could you please explain this? If you mean that these tanks have been establishing a nitrogen 'cycle,' then you should be aware that it can take up to 6 weeks for a cycle to complete -- and it won't do this on its own accord unless you feed the nitrobacters (bacteria). If these tanks aren't fully cycled, they will be dangerous for the new fish. "Recycling" alone, or recirculation of the tank water though a filter will not establish a cycle in 20 days. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@...> wrote: > > -- > i wish to thank both mike and ray for their response the discus i am > getting is not wild i am getting them shortly from a reputed breeder > with in my country I am getting them in 10 days from now though my > present discus are doing well at 8 ph level I am not sure of the new > arrivals I want to lower ph level for them I have succeeded in bringing > down hardness of the water but ph level is constant. Since you people > are more knowledgeable and experienced in handling situation of this > kind I request you to help me or should I take a chance and let them > into the new tanks which have been recycling for the past 20 days. Thank > you. > - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of > > the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to > > keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap > water > > mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down > > considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my > > other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with > > 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help > me > > with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank > or > > shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready > can > > somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54492	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

What pH is the current owner keeping them at? What is your KH? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of goldmental Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 8:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ph level in water -- i wish to thank both mike and ray for their response the discus i am getting is not wild i am getting them shortly from a reputed breeder with in my country I am getting them in 10 days from now though my present discus are doing well at 8 ph level I am not sure of the new arrivals I want to lower ph level for them I have succeeded in bringing down hardness of the water but ph level is constant. Since you people are more knowledgeable and experienced in handling situation of this kind I request you to help me or should I take a chance and let them into the new tanks which have been recycling for the past 20 days. Thank you. - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "goldmental" wrote: > > > Hello, > > I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of > the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to > keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap water > mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down > considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my > other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with > 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help me > with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank or > shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready can > somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank you. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54493	From: Just Micky	Date: 2/23/2013
Subject: Re: ph level in water

With Discus dissolved solid is very important. I you breeder using 50% RO or 100% RO. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:46 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ph level in water > Hi again Devgiri, > > Without knowing what pH this reputed breeder's Discus is in, why would you > want to adjust your pH? It's possible that these fish you're expecting > are in alkaline water and if so, could be acclimated to your pH. Before > you lower your pH for these fish, find out from the breeder, what his pH > is. Only if it's much lower, then you can plan on lowering your pH to > more closely match his - which may need to be done in this case, depending > on his pH. Until then, don't do anything until you find out his water > parameters. > > I'm not sure at all, what you mean by the new tanks having been > "recycling" for the past 20 days. Could you please explain this? If you > mean that these tanks have been establishing a nitrogen 'cycle,' then you > should be aware that it can take up to 6 weeks for a cycle to complete -- > and it won't do this on its own accord unless you feed the nitrobacters > (bacteria). If these tanks aren't fully cycled, they will be dangerous > for the new fish. "Recycling" alone, or recirculation of the tank water > though a filter will not establish a cycle in 20 days. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@...> > wrote: >> >> -- >> i wish to thank both mike and ray for their response the discus i am >> getting is not wild i am getting them shortly from a reputed breeder >> with in my country I am getting them in 10 days from now though my >> present discus are doing well at 8 ph level I am not sure of the new >> arrivals I want to lower ph level for them I have succeeded in bringing >> down hardness of the water but ph level is constant. Since you people >> are more knowledgeable and experienced in handling situation of this >> kind I request you to help me or should I take a chance and let them >> into the new tanks which have been recycling for the past 20 days. Thank >> you. >> - In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "goldmental" <devgiriprasad@> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I request the members here to help me in bringing down the ph level of >> > the tap water(always 8) which I want to use for bare bottom tanks to >> > keep discus fish, i have already filled 3 tanks with the same tap >> water >> > mixing 50% of RO water though the hardness has gone down >> > considerably(120ppm) the ph has not changed it is constant at 8.2 my >> > other discus fishes which are in my planted tanks are doing fine with >> > 210 ppm and 8 ph level they are with me since 2 yrs can somebody help >> me >> > with this issue without adding driftwood, peat or plants to the tank >> or >> > shall I go head putting the new arrivals in the tanks that are ready >> can >> > somebody who is well versed with discus give me suggestions. Thank >> you. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54494	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Hi, Which is the most popular water conditioner among most of you for removing chloramine? I heard AmQuel and Novaqua were best. Then another said Prime and ammo-Lock was best ? ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54495	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

>Hi, >Which is the most popular water conditioner >among most of you for removing chloramine? I heard AmQuel and Novaqua were best. Then another said Prime and ammo-Lock was best ? Sodium Thiosulfate, Hypo, Photo Grade. Charles H -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54496	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/2/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Hi Angela, Tetra AquaSafe does a good job & I never had any problems with it. John*<o)))<* On 2 March 2013 23:26, Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...>wrote: > Hi, > Which is the most popular water conditioner among most of you for > removing chloramine? > I heard AmQuel and Novaqua were best. Then another said Prime and > ammo-Lock was best ? > > ________________________________ > Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal > Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ > Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement > includes...people too. ~ > California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior > www.cawildlife.org > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54497	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/3/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Many of the water conditioners remove chloramine, but leave behind the ammonia. So I look to see what it says it gets rid of. I’ve used Prime. Works well but expensive. Cheapest strategy is to start with a chlorine/ chloramine treater as they are usually inexpensive and work well in small quantities, then Prime or something like it. Dora From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 8:34 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which water conditioner for chloramine? Hi Angela, Tetra AquaSafe does a good job & I never had any problems with it. John*<* On 2 March 2013 23:26, Angela Cancilla Herschel mailto:angelasfeathers%40yahoo.com>wrote: > Hi, > Which is the most popular water conditioner among most of you for > removing chloramine? > I heard AmQuel and Novaqua were best. Then another said Prime and > ammo-Lock was best ? > > ________________________________ > Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal > Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ > Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement > includes...people too. ~ > California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior > www.cawildlife.org > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54498	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/4/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Hi Dora, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement, although I'm understanding that you're saying either, to start with a chlorine/chloramine treater as they are usually more inexpensive (less expensive) than Prime or to start with a chlorine/chloramine treater as they usually work well (better?) in smaller quantities, than Prime; or perhaps both. But Prime IS a chloramine treater, and is no more expensive than most other brands -- at least, no more expensive at the larger aquarium supply houses like Drs Foster - Smith. Prime's price (for 100 ml, treating over 1000 gallons) is equivalent to AmQuel+, NovAqua Plus, Ammo Lock, AquaSafe Plus, Stress Coat and others sold in amounts (usually, 16 ounces) needed to treat a similar amount of water. Actually, API's "Tap Water Conditioner" (Super-strength dechlorinator and chloramine neutralizer) is the least expensive water conditioner by far, when considering that only 3 drops are needs to treat a gallon of water.for chloramine (and one drop per gallon needed to treat for chlorine). API's (Drs Foster-Smith's) price for this is less than any of the other water conditioners too, but still can't beat the price of Prime as the least expensive of all. Maybe your lfs is pricing Prime far above the other brands, but they needn't be as it's not normally near as expensive as the others -- at $3.89 for treating over 1000 gallons -- when compared to AmQuel+ (@ $9.99), NovAqua Plus (@ $8.69), Ammo Lock (@ $8.99), AquaSafe Plus (@ $7.99), Stress Coat (@ $6.79) or even API's super Tap Water Conditioner (@ $5.69) -- all of these prices, by Drs F & S. I had thought though, that photo-developing grade hypo (sodium thiosulfate), while removing/neutralizing chlorine if it can break the chlorine-ammonia bond in chloramine, might not be able to convert the ammonia into ammonium, as dechloraminators do, but I'll defer to Charles H., having more knowledge on this subject than I. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54499	From: Dora Smith	Date: 3/4/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Yes, you can just use Prime. You do need a relatively large amount of Prime, and it’s expensive. I forgot to point that out. Dora From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 2:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Which water conditioner for chloramine? Hi Dora, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement, although I'm understanding that you're saying either, to start with a chlorine/chloramine treater as they are usually more inexpensive (less expensive) than Prime or to start with a chlorine/chloramine treater as they usually work well (better?) in smaller quantities, than Prime; or perhaps both. But Prime IS a chloramine treater, and is no more expensive than most other brands -- at least, no more expensive at the larger aquarium supply houses like Drs Foster - Smith. Prime's price (for 100 ml, treating over 1000 gallons) is equivalent to AmQuel+, NovAqua Plus, Ammo Lock, AquaSafe Plus, Stress Coat and others sold in amounts (usually, 16 ounces) needed to treat a similar amount of water. Actually, API's "Tap Water Conditioner" (Super-strength dechlorinator and chloramine neutralizer) is the least expensive water conditioner by far, when considering that only 3 drops are needs to treat a gallon of water.for chloramine (and one drop per gallon needed to treat for chlorine). API's (Drs Foster-Smith's) price for this is less than any of the other water conditioners too, but still can't beat the price of Prime as the least expensive of all. Maybe your lfs is pricing Prime far above the other brands, but they needn't be as it's not normally near as expensive as the others -- at $3.89 for treating over 1000 gallons -- when compared to AmQuel+ (@ $9.99), NovAqua Plus (@ $8.69), Ammo Lock (@ $8.99), AquaSafe Plus (@ $7.99), Stress Coat (@ $6.79) or even API's super Tap Water Conditioner (@ $5.69) -- all of these prices, by Drs F & S. I had thought though, that photo-developing grade hypo (sodium thiosulfate), while removing/neutralizing chlorine if it can break the chlorine-ammonia bond in chloramine, might not be able to convert the ammonia into ammonium, as dechloraminators do, but I'll defer to Charles H., having more knowledge on this subject than I. Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54500	From: oldies1433	Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Test? new addy

no message

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54501	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 3/6/2013
Subject: Re: Which water conditioner for chloramine?

Thiosulfate sells from me for $3.00 a pound (453.6 grams). Five grams treats 50 gallons of St Louis tap water. That is a gram per 10 gallons. So 453.5 grams treats 4,536 gallons of water for Chloramine treated water. St Louis tap water has max 1.0 ppm Chloramine. There may be more or less in your tap water. Given that 1 ppm Chlorine is the Safe Water Standard for municipal water treatment, $3.00 treats four and a half thousand gallons. That kills the Chlorine part of Chloramine. Given that 1.0 ppm Chloramine is present, there is a remaining 1.0 ppm Ammonia. That is about equivalent to a dozen Cardinals urinating in a 10 gallon tank in about 3 hours. All fish eliminate waste water and Ammonia from their kidneys. They are basic and don't convert the Nitrogen compounds as Uric Acid or Urea as some of the higher animals. The water changes, plants or bacteria have to take care of that. In a stable reasonably long term set up tank, the sudden appearance of 1.0 ppm Ammonia can be dealt with in a few hours. That would equal a 100% water change using Thiosulfate as the de-Chlorinator. I have done this for 45 years. In the last 15 years in St. Louis, I have turned in 167 different submissions to the Missouri Aquarium Society Breeders Award program. That includes 63 different Genera and a large number of species. They range from Cichlids, Killifish, Tetras, Callichthyidae ( Corydoras), Goodeidas, Guppies and more than I can remember. I maintain about 35 tanks ranging from 5 to 55 gallons. I don't waste money on Patented Chlorine removers. It's just plain stupid. I have three test I perform with regularity with my water. #1 is Temperature, #2 Chlorine, #3 is pH. I keep the Alkanity stable with regular water changes, no worry. All of the most successful breeders Change As Much Water As Often They Can! Charles Harrison > >Hi, >>Which is the most popular water conditioner >>among most of you for removing chloramine? >I heard AmQuel and Novaqua were best. Then >another said Prime and ammo-Lock was best ? > >Sodium Thiosulfate, Hypo, Photo Grade. > >Charles H >-- >}}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ >Change as much water as often as you can! >Charles Harrison in St Louis >http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ >}}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54502	From: Des	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as we speak! Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out and ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54503	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall weir instead. Desire’ From: Des Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as we speak! Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out and ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54504	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Hi Desire' A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the exact shape of your pond. I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a waterfall weir? John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > ** > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I���m using a waterfall > weir instead. > > Desire��� > > From: Des > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > we speak! > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out and > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54505	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

it’s a rectangular shape. http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.222/.f ( I thought about getting one of these, not sure if I should get 16 inch, 32 inch or ??) A weir is used in a lot of formal ponds. Instead of a cascading waterfall, this one is more slick like a sheet of water. -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire' A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the exact shape of your pond. I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a waterfall weir? John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > ** > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > weir instead. > > Desire’ > > From: Des > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > we speak! > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > and > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54506	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

I'm still trying to figure out what kind of filter I will need- there are so many choices! I know I need one with biological and mechanical filtration. I found this one that I liked: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5186+5226+20083&pcatid=20083 (the 3000). The pond is 4 feet deep, almost 3 full feet ABOVE the ground. The waterfall will LIKELY sit 2 feet above the surface of the water and pump will be slightly elevated at bottom of pond. So how do I figure out how many gphs I will need in a water pump? My pond, if I estimated correctly, will be 1680 gallons. Do you have to double it for koi? Then do you take the gph and make sure the chosen filter fits the recommended? I am so sorry for all the questions! I'm just overwhelmed- esp. since we will be installing these in about a week and I have yet to pick out the filter and pump! (I will be ordering in a day or so and get fast shipping). Thank you so much for ANY help you can give in this matter. I just want to make sure I don't mess up and then later regret it! Desire' in Louisiana -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire' A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the exact shape of your pond. I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a waterfall weir? John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > ** > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > weir instead. > > Desire’ > > From: Des > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > we speak! > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > and > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54507	From: Desire`	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

This is what I’m thinking of order: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5186+5226+20083&pcatid=20083#BVQAWidgetID (for the filter) http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5164+9372&pcatid=9372 (PM 9.5 for pump) Thoughts? Comments?? Would this pump work well to power a 16 or 31 inch waterfall weir? Should I go more GPH? I picked a filter that is recommended for a bigger sized pond as the model lowest was for a 1200 gallon pond and mine is 1645 gallons. The filter/pump combination is probably the hardest thing to figure out! I just want to make sure I get it right. I had heard Pondmaster was a good quality brand to purchase. Desire’ From: Desire` Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) it’s a rectangular shape. http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.222/.f ( I thought about getting one of these, not sure if I should get 16 inch, 32 inch or ??) A weir is used in a lot of formal ponds. Instead of a cascading waterfall, this one is more slick like a sheet of water. -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire' A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the exact shape of your pond. I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a waterfall weir? John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mailto:mustanggirl83%40mobiletel.com> wrote: > ** > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > weir instead. > > Desire’ > > From: Des > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > we speak! > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > and > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54508	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/7/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Hi Desire', It was I who guided you through what size liner you'd need. With you adding two feet to the length of your pond, the length of your liner will just barely make it. If it's much more than 11' long, you may not have enough liner to reach from the bottom to the top. You will need to trim the width though, but do not take any trim on the length. On all ponds having an EPDM liner installed in the pond's excavation, overlap onto the ground beside the pond is needed to prevent rain water from running off your lawn and into the pond. This overlap is also needed to hold the EPDM pond sides in place until the pond is filled. Preferably, this overlap should be 1' on all sides and ends. With your 11' long (and 4' deep) excavation, your 20' long liner will have only 6" of overlap at each end where it comes out of the ground -- so I hope you measured correctly and that you dug no more than 11' long and no more than 4' deep. The width of your liner will need to be trimmed from 20', down to no less than 15'. this will allow for 5' wide, plus 4' deep (on one side), plus 4' deep on the other side), plus 1' overlap on each side (2') -- a total of 15'. With this overlap, you should build up a slight berm around the very edge of the pond perimeter at the top, and drape this excess overlap over this higher ground (which would be higher than the surrounding ground) -- or, you could build this perimeter up slightly, with brick or stonework, not more than 3" high (and perhaps at least 6" or more wide) and drape this liner overlap over this berm. Where you have 1' of overlap, this berm can be 9" to 10" wide. Once this overlap is in place over this 3" high berm, you can hold it down by placing rockwork on top of it at various location, as needed. This will hold it all in place until it's filled, and will prevent muddy rainwater from running into the pond as run-off. Be absolutely sure of your ponds measurements though before you do any trimming. If you're 6" deeper than you thought, at any location near the sides, you will then only have 6" of overlap at that point on each side -- 6" deeper will mean that each side would be 4' 6" (total, 9' of liner for the sides -- without yet figuring for overlap), as opposed to 8' of liner being used for the two sides (plus 2' for overlap {1' per side]) if they're actually 4' deep. Ray -- Your Moderator</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54509	From: Desire`	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Would this being a raised pond make any difference in the 6 or 12 inches for the length sides? It’s a foot dug and 3 inches above. Thanks! Desire’ From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 11:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire', It was I who guided you through what size liner you'd need. With you adding two feet to the length of your pond, the length of your liner will just barely make it. If it's much more than 11' long, you may not have enough liner to reach from the bottom to the top. You will need to trim the width though, but do not take any trim on the length. On all ponds having an EPDM liner installed in the pond's excavation, overlap onto the ground beside the pond is needed to prevent rain water from running off your lawn and into the pond. This overlap is also needed to hold the EPDM pond sides in place until the pond is filled. Preferably, this overlap should be 1' on all sides and ends. With your 11' long (and 4' deep) excavation, your 20' long liner will have only 6" of overlap at each end where it comes out of the ground -- so I hope you measured correctly and that you dug no more than 11' long and no more than 4' deep. The width of your liner will need to be trimmed from 20', down to no less than 15'. this will allow for 5' wide, plus 4' deep (on one side), plus 4' deep on the other side), plus 1' overlap on each side (2') -- a total of 15'. With this overlap, you should build up a slight berm around the very edge of the pond perimeter at the top, and drape this excess overlap over this higher ground (which would be higher than the surrounding ground) -- or, you could build this perimeter up slightly, with brick or stonework, not more than 3" high (and perhaps at least 6" or more wide) and drape this liner overlap over this berm. Where you have 1' of overlap, this berm can be 9" to 10" wide. Once this overlap is in place over this 3" high berm, you can hold it down by placing rockwork on top of it at various location, as needed. This will hold it all in place until it's filled, and will prevent muddy rainwater from running into the pond as run-off. Be absolutely sure of your ponds measurements though before you do any trimming. If you're 6" deeper than you thought, at any location near the sides, you will then only have 6" of overlap at that point on each side -- 6" deeper will mean that each side would be 4' 6" (total, 9' of liner for the sides -- without yet figuring for overlap), as opposed to 8' of liner being used for the two sides (plus 2' for overlap {1' per side]) if they're actually 4' deep. Ray -- Your Moderator</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54510	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Hi Desire' Is the waterfall weir & it's associated pump going to be a separate system to the main filter unit? I'm generally not a big fan of waterfalls because they often are the cause of leaks & other problems but I do like the weir waterfall as it doesn't compromise the basic liner configuration. Not sure if they are available in the States but here we have a great filtration system called Biotech made by German company Oase & that one you have linked to looks very similar so should be perfect. I see that it has a built in UV clarifier which will take care of lots of potential parasites as well as helping to control the dreaded blanket weed! Regarding doubling-up the recommended system for Koi, I would always double what the manufacturer recommended for any kind of Carps from a small tank to a huge pond. How many fish are you putting in there & do you plan on adding more later? It is a fact that you cannot really over filter Carps so more filtration is always good so go for doubling. If you then do plan on getting a sizeable collection of Koi, Goldfish, Tench, Orfe etc it will save you a lot of hassle [& money] upgrading in future. I would strongly suggest that you also get some kind of netting that will completely cover the pond & also look into a movement activated Heron scarer &/or an electrified perimeter fence to keep the predators at bay. Once they realise they are not going to get anywhere at you pond they will move onto somewhere else. Regarding the height you want the pump to lift the water for your waterfall, the maximum head height that the GPH is pumped to is directly related to the bore of the pipe.If a pipe half the recommended size is used the water will come out twice as much force but as you increase the dimension of the inlet pipe the pressure will drop so less & less water will be lifted. To put it another way once you had the waterfall feature set up & running if you manually lifted it up higher than it's planned location the water would slow down & if you lowered it the water flow would increase. I noticed that your pond is a raised affair so for vacuuming dead leaves & fish waste etc from the bottom I don't think you would need to invest in any expensive pond vac. Simply attach a long broom handle to a length of flexible hose-put the other end down a nearby drain & you have a ready made vacuum that will work by simple gravity & be a lot more effective too. As a by product of this process, if you use this waste water on your garden you also get free organic fertiliser as it is full of nitrates & your plants will grow well! John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 05:11, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Desire', > > It was I who guided you through what size liner you'd need. With you > adding two feet to the length of your pond, the length of your liner will > just > barely make it. If it's much more than 11' long, you may not have enough > liner to reach from the bottom to the top. You will need to trim the width > though, but do not take any trim on the length. > > On all ponds having an EPDM liner installed in the pond's excavation, > overlap onto the ground beside the pond is needed to prevent rain water > from > running off your lawn and into the pond. This overlap is also needed to > hold > the EPDM pond sides in place until the pond is filled. Preferably, this > overlap should be 1' on all sides and ends. With your 11' long (and 4' > deep) > excavation, your 20' long liner will have only 6" of overlap at each end > where > it comes out of the ground -- so I hope you measured correctly and that > you > dug no more than 11' long and no more than 4' deep. > > The width of your liner will need to be trimmed from 20', down to no less > than 15'. this will allow for 5' wide, plus 4' deep (on one side), plus 4' > deep on the other side), plus 1' overlap on each side (2') -- a total of > 15'. > > With this overlap, you should build up a slight berm around the very edge > of the pond perimeter at the top, and drape this excess overlap over this > higher ground (which would be higher than the surrounding ground) -- or, > you > could build this perimeter up slightly, with brick or stonework, not more > than 3" high (and perhaps at least 6" or more wide) and drape this liner > overlap over this berm. Where you have 1' of overlap, this berm can be 9" > to 10" > wide. Once this overlap is in place over this 3" high berm, you can hold > it down by placing rockwork on top of it at various location, as needed. > This will hold it all in place until it's filled, and will prevent muddy > rainwater from running into the pond as run-off. Be absolutely sure of > your ponds > measurements though before you do any trimming. If you're 6" deeper than > you thought, at any location near the sides, you will then only have 6" of > overlap at that point on each side -- 6" deeper will mean that each side > would > be 4' 6" (total, 9' of liner for the sides -- without yet figuring for > overlap), as opposed to 8' of liner being used for the two sides (plus 2' > for > overlap {1' per side]) if they're actually 4' deep. > > Ray -- Your Moderator</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54511	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Desire'-you will need to line the hole with old carpet or sand before setting the liner in place so if it is slightly oversize for the liner that padding might take care of it. John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 14:52, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > ** > > > Would this being a raised pond make any difference in the 6 or 12 inches > for the length sides? It���s a foot dug and 3 inches above. > > Thanks! > Desire��� > > From: sevenspringss@... > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 11:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > Hi Desire', > > It was I who guided you through what size liner you'd need. With you > adding two feet to the length of your pond, the length of your liner will > just > barely make it. If it's much more than 11' long, you may not have enough > liner to reach from the bottom to the top. You will need to trim the width > though, but do not take any trim on the length. > > On all ponds having an EPDM liner installed in the pond's excavation, > overlap onto the ground beside the pond is needed to prevent rain water > from > running off your lawn and into the pond. This overlap is also needed to > hold > the EPDM pond sides in place until the pond is filled. Preferably, this > overlap should be 1' on all sides and ends. With your 11' long (and 4' > deep) > excavation, your 20' long liner will have only 6" of overlap at each end > where > it comes out of the ground -- so I hope you measured correctly and that > you > dug no more than 11' long and no more than 4' deep. > > The width of your liner will need to be trimmed from 20', down to no less > than 15'. this will allow for 5' wide, plus 4' deep (on one side), plus 4' > deep on the other side), plus 1' overlap on each side (2') -- a total of > 15'. > > With this overlap, you should build up a slight berm around the very edge > of the pond perimeter at the top, and drape this excess overlap over this > higher ground (which would be higher than the surrounding ground) -- or, > you > could build this perimeter up slightly, with brick or stonework, not more > than 3" high (and perhaps at least 6" or more wide) and drape this liner > overlap over this berm. Where you have 1' of overlap, this berm can be 9" > to 10" > wide. Once this overlap is in place over this 3" high berm, you can hold > it down by placing rockwork on top of it at various location, as needed. > This will hold it all in place until it's filled, and will prevent muddy > rainwater from running into the pond as run-off. Be absolutely sure of > your ponds > measurements though before you do any trimming. If you're 6" deeper than > you thought, at any location near the sides, you will then only have 6" of > overlap at that point on each side -- 6" deeper will mean that each side > would > be 4' 6" (total, 9' of liner for the sides -- without yet figuring for > overlap), as opposed to 8' of liner being used for the two sides (plus 2' > for > overlap {1' per side]) if they're actually 4' deep. > > Ray -- Your Moderator</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54512	From: Ray	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Desire', As I already assumed that your pond will be uniform in its sides' configurations from your description of it's excavation, your referral to "formal" here seems to support this. So, since you mention this weir is used on formal ponds and you're thinking about getting one for your pond, then I have to guess that your pond surely will be formal as I had assumed -- as having a regular rectangular shape and no irregular undulations along the pond's sides -- is this correct? If so, then I see no reason why a weir such as this would not fit right into the scheme of things. Almost always, when it comes to filtration (and I see that this weir's box is a filter container), one can't have too much of it. Now, I don't mean in the rate of circulation, but in volume and media surface area. So, as long as you have the room for it, the 32" weir should be the better choice. I believe I saw that even the smaller 16" weir has the capacity to be able to circulate water from about 900 GPH to 3200 GPH if I'm not mistaken -- but I don't have those figures right in front of me now. I don't know if you're going to rely on this unit as a filter, even though it's designed for this purpose, as I notice you're planning on having a separate filter. Even so, most often a pump and filter's plumbing is coordinated with a waterfall when that feature is included, so your weir could instead be connected to the outflow of your pump and filter. If you decide to go with the 32" weir and will not be relying on it specifically as a filter, its purpose then will primarily be esthetical, so keep in mind that to look best, the larger weir will need twice as much flow than the smaller one to have the same visual effect. With your 5' trim off your liner though, you could still make a waterfall with this base. Getting back to filtration and flow, unlike an aquarium usually needing a flow rate for its filter at two or three times per hour, of the volume of the tank, a pond is much different partially because its volume is much more stable, and its required turnover per hour decreases as the pond increases in size (volume). As examples, while a 2500 gallon pond would do very well with a turnover rate through its filter of 3000 GPH (somewhat over this pond's capacity), a 10,000 gallon pond will do just as well with a filter flow rate of only 5400 GPH (a bit over half this pond's capacity), and a 25,000 gallon pond will do well with a turnover rate of 10,800 GPH (somewhat over only a third of this pond's capacity) -- all still dependent though, on the bioload (number of fish). Yes, Pondmaster is a very good choice. While it's not top of the line, and is subject to occasional failure, it's reliable and quite durable. This brand of pond pump (made by Tetra) has been a mainstay in water gardening for decades. The "failure" possibility I mention happens primarily when debris is allowed into the plumbing, past the filter (if the pump is placed after the filter), or when the smaller pre-filter unit fails in keeping debris from entering the pump when the pump is placed before the filter. When referring to "debris" here, I mean harder substances like gravel or small stons rather than decaying plant matter. The Pondmasters' impellers are especially prone to breakage when hard debris is allowed to enter the pump. Other than that, they're great pumps but still, the impellers should be expected to need replacing after a while when the bushings wear out, but not until many seasons -- and it's a simple (and inexpensive) matter of replacing them. For filtration purposes, for your 1645.7 gallon (yes, you figured it exactly right) pond, you should have a pump and filter with a turnover rate of about 2000 GPH (or even somewhat slightly less), but you wouldn't need more. While a Pondmaster Model 1800 (Catalog #18) may be just adequate, you'd do better with a Model 2400 (catalog #24), especially if you still also having an addition, ordinary kind of waterfall (of no more than 3' high if you use this larger pump). If you have this plumbed to your weir though, you may want a larger pump (and filter) just so that you have more flow over your weir's "waterfall," even though you wouldn't need a larger flow for filtration purposes. Remember, you need to match the filter to the pump's flow rate. Tetra does make a Pondmaster 2000 Filter (Catalog #PMF20) for ponds up to 2000 gallons, but it's designed for the PM1800 pump (1800 GPH), not the PM2400 pump. When water gardens use a larger pump however, they divert part of the flow via a valve, through a parallel hose so as not to overpower their filter -- or their UV Unit (which has a much slower flow capacity). There's one thing you just recently mentioned in another message, and that is, that your 4' deep pond will be 3' above ground. I'm extremely curious -- what will these 3' of pond sides above the ground be supported with? Will you be building it up with cinder blocks or something similarly strong? I hope whatever you build this with above ground is strong, as water has a lot of weight (both down and outward). Along your 11' sides, where the 3' portion of the 4' deep sides meets the ground, you'll have a steady outward pressure of 2054 pounds and along your ends at this same location, at ground level, you'll have a steady outwards pressure of 933.75 pounds. This much pressure can move very substantially built retaining walls if they're not built strong enough. Otherwise, you can see what may happen; it may expand to 12' long X 6' wide < g > -- or 14' long X 8' wide (but only 1' high above ground (LOL). Oh, there's one thing I almost forgot to mention, which I thought you asked about -- the 1645 gallon pond can support three full size 32"+ Koi, and I think you said way back that that's the number of Koi you have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Desire`" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > it’s a rectangular shape. > > > http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.222/.f ( I thought about getting > one of these, not sure if I should get 16 inch, 32 inch or ??) > > A weir is used in a lot of formal ponds. Instead of a cascading waterfall, > this one is more slick like a sheet of water. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > Hi Desire' > > A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us > because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the > dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with > the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a > total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on > the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a > regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are > terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of > liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. > Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the > steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the > exact shape of your pond. > > I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a > waterfall weir? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > > weir instead. > > > > Desire’ > > > > From: Des > > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > > we speak! > > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > > and > > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54513	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Desire', Do you mean -- it's a foot dug and 3' above, when you said it's a foot dug and 3" (inches) above? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54514	From: Desire`	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Yes, sorry! It’s a foot below and three FEET above. Sorry about that! Desire’ From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 2:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Desire', Do you mean -- it's a foot dug and 3' above, when you said it's a foot dug and 3" (inches) above? Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54515	From: cactus_t_2002	Date: 3/8/2013
Subject: New to the group

Hi im Tom im new and keep tropical fish. I have been in the hobby for a long time.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54516	From: Noura	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Hi, I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to a 36 G long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. The expected measurements will be ( 35"Lx 15"Wx 23"H). I've made an illustration of my planned tank, here's the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/180450 6936/view?picmode= <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/18045 06936/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc If the link breaks, you can find the photo in my Album "Noura's Tanks in Syria", in Aquaticlife Group's photo section. I'm in the planning phase and need some advice. - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not the best disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many equipment in the tank, but will live with it if it's better to keep it. - What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one half of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in the current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the glass shop owner is clueless! Thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54517	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Yes, John, the waterfall weir is going to be separate from my main filter. I was going to build up a waterfall but was weary of problems that could occur. I thought this way might have less (or hopefully, NO) problems! I do have a netting I will put over the pond. I used this same netting on top of my pre-formed pond that the kois were in for the past two summers. It was a small 240 gallon pre-formed with very basic filtration and with the netting, the water stayed crystal clear all summer as the debris in the pond was minimal. I thought this would help the new pond water a lot to stay cleaner (aside from filtration) – as well as keep the fish safe. We will also have a pergola top over the pond with a canvas cover on top to block out the sunshine as it would be in full sun for half the day. This would also eliminate debris that would blow from the top of the house. Ever since I learned about it from this group (using aquarium water to water plants) I have been doing so! Thanks for all the helpful advice! This has been quite a learning process!!! Desire’ From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:30 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire' Is the waterfall weir & it's associated pump going to be a separate system to the main filter unit? I'm generally not a big fan of waterfalls because they often are the cause of leaks & other problems but I do like the weir waterfall as it doesn't compromise the basic liner configuration. Not sure if they are available in the States but here we have a great filtration system called Biotech made by German company Oase & that one you have linked to looks very similar so should be perfect. I see that it has a built in UV clarifier which will take care of lots of potential parasites as well as helping to control the dreaded blanket weed! Regarding doubling-up the recommended system for Koi, I would always double what the manufacturer recommended for any kind of Carps from a small tank to a huge pond. How many fish are you putting in there & do you plan on adding more later? It is a fact that you cannot really over filter Carps so more filtration is always good so go for doubling. If you then do plan on getting a sizeable collection of Koi, Goldfish, Tench, Orfe etc it will save you a lot of hassle [& money] upgrading in future. I would strongly suggest that you also get some kind of netting that will completely cover the pond & also look into a movement activated Heron scarer &/or an electrified perimeter fence to keep the predators at bay. Once they realise they are not going to get anywhere at you pond they will move onto somewhere else. Regarding the height you want the pump to lift the water for your waterfall, the maximum head height that the GPH is pumped to is directly related to the bore of the pipe.If a pipe half the recommended size is used the water will come out twice as much force but as you increase the dimension of the inlet pipe the pressure will drop so less & less water will be lifted. To put it another way once you had the waterfall feature set up & running if you manually lifted it up higher than it's planned location the water would slow down & if you lowered it the water flow would increase. I noticed that your pond is a raised affair so for vacuuming dead leaves & fish waste etc from the bottom I don't think you would need to invest in any expensive pond vac. Simply attach a long broom handle to a length of flexible hose-put the other end down a nearby drain & you have a ready made vacuum that will work by simple gravity & be a lot more effective too. As a by product of this process, if you use this waste water on your garden you also get free organic fertiliser as it is full of nitrates & your plants will grow well! John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 05:11, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Desire', > > It was I who guided you through what size liner you'd need. With you > adding two feet to the length of your pond, the length of your liner will > just > barely make it. If it's much more than 11' long, you may not have enough > liner to reach from the bottom to the top. You will need to trim the width > though, but do not take any trim on the length. > > On all ponds having an EPDM liner installed in the pond's excavation, > overlap onto the ground beside the pond is needed to prevent rain water > from > running off your lawn and into the pond. This overlap is also needed to > hold > the EPDM pond sides in place until the pond is filled. Preferably, this > overlap should be 1' on all sides and ends. With your 11' long (and 4' > deep) > excavation, your 20' long liner will have only 6" of overlap at each end > where > it comes out of the ground -- so I hope you measured correctly and that > you > dug no more than 11' long and no more than 4' deep. > > The width of your liner will need to be trimmed from 20', down to no less > than 15'. this will allow for 5' wide, plus 4' deep (on one side), plus 4' > deep on the other side), plus 1' overlap on each side (2') -- a total of > 15'. > > With this overlap, you should build up a slight berm around the very edge > of the pond perimeter at the top, and drape this excess overlap over this > higher ground (which would be higher than the surrounding ground) -- or, > you > could build this perimeter up slightly, with brick or stonework, not more > than 3" high (and perhaps at least 6" or more wide) and drape this liner > overlap over this berm. Where you have 1' of overlap, this berm can be 9" > to 10" > wide. Once this overlap is in place over this 3" high berm, you can hold > it down by placing rockwork on top of it at various location, as needed. > This will hold it all in place until it's filled, and will prevent muddy > rainwater from running into the pond as run-off. Be absolutely sure of > your ponds > measurements though before you do any trimming. If you're 6" deeper than > you thought, at any location near the sides, you will then only have 6" of > overlap at that point on each side -- 6" deeper will mean that each side > would > be 4' 6" (total, 9' of liner for the sides -- without yet figuring for > overlap), as opposed to 8' of liner being used for the two sides (plus 2' > for > overlap {1' per side]) if they're actually 4' deep. > > Ray -- Your Moderator</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54518	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

You are correct in your assumption. My apologies if my previous email did not state such. I was kind of frustrated with the pond project when I wrote in for help. When you are just learning the process for this, it can be very overwhelming and a lot to digest. We decided to get the 16 inch weir. My dad thought the 31 inch would be too much- seeing how their GPH goes all the way to 10,000. I found one on Ebay and it should be in on Wednesday. I had to get it somewhere where I can get faster shipping and buy directly. I found a seller on Amazon, but when you buy from a seller on there, you never exactly know when to expect your package, as opposed to Amazon where you have the option of getting it next day shipping. The waterfall weir will not be relied on as the primary filter. yes, I have three kois. I had thought about putting one more if its possible, since I’m going for a lot more filtration than recommended. I would likely add no more than one more though, for a total of four. Thanks for the helpful advice!I appreciate your taking the time to type it all out for me to understand better. Desire’ in Louisiana, for the kois Elle, Spooks and Ginger From: Ray Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 1:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) Desire', As I already assumed that your pond will be uniform in its sides' configurations from your description of it's excavation, your referral to "formal" here seems to support this. So, since you mention this weir is used on formal ponds and you're thinking about getting one for your pond, then I have to guess that your pond surely will be formal as I had assumed -- as having a regular rectangular shape and no irregular undulations along the pond's sides -- is this correct? If so, then I see no reason why a weir such as this would not fit right into the scheme of things. Almost always, when it comes to filtration (and I see that this weir's box is a filter container), one can't have too much of it. Now, I don't mean in the rate of circulation, but in volume and media surface area. So, as long as you have the room for it, the 32" weir should be the better choice. I believe I saw that even the smaller 16" weir has the capacity to be able to circulate water from about 900 GPH to 3200 GPH if I'm not mistaken -- but I don't have those figures right in front of me now. I don't know if you're going to rely on this unit as a filter, even though it's designed for this purpose, as I notice you're planning on having a separate filter. Even so, most often a pump and filter's plumbing is coordinated with a waterfall when that feature is included, so your weir could instead be connected to the outflow of your pump and filter. If you decide to go with the 32" weir and will not be relying on it specifically as a filter, its purpose then will primarily be esthetical, so keep in mind that to look best, the larger weir will need twice as much flow than the smaller one to have the same visual effect. With your 5' trim off your liner though, you could still make a waterfall with this base. Getting back to filtration and flow, unlike an aquarium usually needing a flow rate for its filter at two or three times per hour, of the volume of the tank, a pond is much different partially because its volume is much more stable, and its required turnover per hour decreases as the pond increases in size (volume). As examples, while a 2500 gallon pond would do very well with a turnover rate through its filter of 3000 GPH (somewhat over this pond's capacity), a 10,000 gallon pond will do just as well with a filter flow rate of only 5400 GPH (a bit over half this pond's capacity), and a 25,000 gallon pond will do well with a turnover rate of 10,800 GPH (somewhat over only a third of this pond's capacity) -- all still dependent though, on the bioload (number of fish). Yes, Pondmaster is a very good choice. While it's not top of the line, and is subject to occasional failure, it's reliable and quite durable. This brand of pond pump (made by Tetra) has been a mainstay in water gardening for decades. The "failure" possibility I mention happens primarily when debris is allowed into the plumbing, past the filter (if the pump is placed after the filter), or when the smaller pre-filter unit fails in keeping debris from entering the pump when the pump is placed before the filter. When referring to "debris" here, I mean harder substances like gravel or small stons rather than decaying plant matter. The Pondmasters' impellers are especially prone to breakage when hard debris is allowed to enter the pump. Other than that, they're great pumps but still, the impellers should be expected to need replacing after a while when the bushings wear out, but not until many seasons -- and it's a simple (and inexpensive) matter of replacing them. For filtration purposes, for your 1645.7 gallon (yes, you figured it exactly right) pond, you should have a pump and filter with a turnover rate of about 2000 GPH (or even somewhat slightly less), but you wouldn't need more. While a Pondmaster Model 1800 (Catalog #18) may be just adequate, you'd do better with a Model 2400 (catalog #24), especially if you still also having an addition, ordinary kind of waterfall (of no more than 3' high if you use this larger pump). If you have this plumbed to your weir though, you may want a larger pump (and filter) just so that you have more flow over your weir's "waterfall," even though you wouldn't need a larger flow for filtration purposes. Remember, you need to match the filter to the pump's flow rate. Tetra does make a Pondmaster 2000 Filter (Catalog #PMF20) for ponds up to 2000 gallons, but it's designed for the PM1800 pump (1800 GPH), not the PM2400 pump. When water gardens use a larger pump however, they divert part of the flow via a valve, through a parallel hose so as not to overpower their filter -- or their UV Unit (which has a much slower flow capacity). There's one thing you just recently mentioned in another message, and that is, that your 4' deep pond will be 3' above ground. I'm extremely curious -- what will these 3' of pond sides above the ground be supported with? Will you be building it up with cinder blocks or something similarly strong? I hope whatever you build this with above ground is strong, as water has a lot of weight (both down and outward). Along your 11' sides, where the 3' portion of the 4' deep sides meets the ground, you'll have a steady outward pressure of 2054 pounds and along your ends at this same location, at ground level, you'll have a steady outwards pressure of 933.75 pounds. This much pressure can move very substantially built retaining walls if they're not built strong enough. Otherwise, you can see what may happen; it may expand to 12' long X 6' wide < g > -- or 14' long X 8' wide (but only 1' high above ground (LOL). Oh, there's one thing I almost forgot to mention, which I thought you asked about -- the 1645 gallon pond can support three full size 32"+ Koi, and I think you said way back that that's the number of Koi you have. Ray --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, "Desire`" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > it’s a rectangular shape. > > > http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.222/.f ( I thought about getting > one of these, not sure if I should get 16 inch, 32 inch or ??) > > A weir is used in a lot of formal ponds. Instead of a cascading waterfall, > this one is more slick like a sheet of water. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > Hi Desire' > > A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us > because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the > dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with > the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a > total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on > the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a > regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are > terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of > liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. > Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the > steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the > exact shape of your pond. > > I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a > waterfall weir? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > > weir instead. > > > > Desire’ > > > > From: Des > > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > > we speak! > > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > > and > > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54519	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: New to the group

Hi Tom, Welcome to the group. John*<o)))<* On 8 March 2013 23:23, cactus_t_2002 <cactus_t_2002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi im Tom im new and keep tropical fish. > I have been in the hobby for a long time. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54520	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54521	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Desire', I realize that my reply was somewhat lengthy, but I just thought that the details would be helpful to you. Looks like you haven't read it all though, as you haven't answer a very important question I asked -- about how the 3' of pond sides above ground level are supported. Perhaps you may want to go back and re-read that message, and then let me know how you're doing this. I haven't even seen you touch on what I wrote on this at all and I'm extremely curious to know. One factor I didn't bring up though, is while you're living in southern Louisiana (I believe), you mentioned that your weather can still get very cold at times. I'm not sure if your realize, that with 3/4 of the pond's volume being above ground and exposed to the weather, that the water will cool off much faster (and colder) than it would if it were sunk into the ground like ordinary ponds. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54522	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Sorry, I don’t know what all my dad is using for the construction other than a very thick sheet of wood for the walls. I have no knowledge of carpentry so it’s a bit hard for me to explain. I know he has 2 x 4 s (?) built on to the outside of each wall and right now has a narrow board in center of pond to reinforce the walls ? I’m sorry I can’t explain much better. We are going to put brick on the outside of the pond and one long side of the pond is connected to our wooden fence with a narrow deck in between the two. There is also a 3 feet wide deck (will be built onto) on one of the short sides and other side will be same. In other words, the pond is surrounded by deck. I would think this would give more strength to the walls? we thought adding carpet padding along the sides might give the liner better protection going up the sides? I hope this help some! My dad knows way more about it than I do as he is the one doing it. He has over 40 years of carpentry experience and has built MANY houses before, so I’m sure he will do an amazing job building my pond. He knows how strong and sustainable houses (and ponds) would need to be. One thing I thought of though...I wonder if hurricane straps on the sides of the pond would help the walls to be stronger against water pressure? (hope that isn’t a dumb thought!) We had to put these on the ceiling and floor joists in our new home and our home is supposed to be completely indestructable of even the strongest hurricane winds. Surely this would help with water pressure as well?? Desire’ From: sevenspringss@... Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) Desire', I realize that my reply was somewhat lengthy, but I just thought that the details would be helpful to you. Looks like you haven't read it all though, as you haven't answer a very important question I asked -- about how the 3' of pond sides above ground level are supported. Perhaps you may want to go back and re-read that message, and then let me know how you're doing this. I haven't even seen you touch on what I wrote on this at all and I'm extremely curious to know. One factor I didn't bring up though, is while you're living in southern Louisiana (I believe), you mentioned that your weather can still get very cold at times. I'm not sure if your realize, that with 3/4 of the pond's volume being above ground and exposed to the weather, that the water will cool off much faster (and colder) than it would if it were sunk into the ground like ordinary ponds. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54523	From: Desire`	Date: 3/9/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Would the PUV 4000 work with the Pondmaster (PM 24) pump?? Links below to both... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=20107 PUV 4000 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9372 Pump Pondmaster 24 This is the set up I am thinking of going with. Let me know what you think! I want to try and place the order this evening. Desire’ From: Ray Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 1:29 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) Desire', As I already assumed that your pond will be uniform in its sides' configurations from your description of it's excavation, your referral to "formal" here seems to support this. So, since you mention this weir is used on formal ponds and you're thinking about getting one for your pond, then I have to guess that your pond surely will be formal as I had assumed -- as having a regular rectangular shape and no irregular undulations along the pond's sides -- is this correct? If so, then I see no reason why a weir such as this would not fit right into the scheme of things. Almost always, when it comes to filtration (and I see that this weir's box is a filter container), one can't have too much of it. Now, I don't mean in the rate of circulation, but in volume and media surface area. So, as long as you have the room for it, the 32" weir should be the better choice. I believe I saw that even the smaller 16" weir has the capacity to be able to circulate water from about 900 GPH to 3200 GPH if I'm not mistaken -- but I don't have those figures right in front of me now. I don't know if you're going to rely on this unit as a filter, even though it's designed for this purpose, as I notice you're planning on having a separate filter. Even so, most often a pump and filter's plumbing is coordinated with a waterfall when that feature is included, so your weir could instead be connected to the outflow of your pump and filter. If you decide to go with the 32" weir and will not be relying on it specifically as a filter, its purpose then will primarily be esthetical, so keep in mind that to look best, the larger weir will need twice as much flow than the smaller one to have the same visual effect. With your 5' trim off your liner though, you could still make a waterfall with this base. Getting back to filtration and flow, unlike an aquarium usually needing a flow rate for its filter at two or three times per hour, of the volume of the tank, a pond is much different partially because its volume is much more stable, and its required turnover per hour decreases as the pond increases in size (volume). As examples, while a 2500 gallon pond would do very well with a turnover rate through its filter of 3000 GPH (somewhat over this pond's capacity), a 10,000 gallon pond will do just as well with a filter flow rate of only 5400 GPH (a bit over half this pond's capacity), and a 25,000 gallon pond will do well with a turnover rate of 10,800 GPH (somewhat over only a third of this pond's capacity) -- all still dependent though, on the bioload (number of fish). Yes, Pondmaster is a very good choice. While it's not top of the line, and is subject to occasional failure, it's reliable and quite durable. This brand of pond pump (made by Tetra) has been a mainstay in water gardening for decades. The "failure" possibility I mention happens primarily when debris is allowed into the plumbing, past the filter (if the pump is placed after the filter), or when the smaller pre-filter unit fails in keeping debris from entering the pump when the pump is placed before the filter. When referring to "debris" here, I mean harder substances like gravel or small stons rather than decaying plant matter. The Pondmasters' impellers are especially prone to breakage when hard debris is allowed to enter the pump. Other than that, they're great pumps but still, the impellers should be expected to need replacing after a while when the bushings wear out, but not until many seasons -- and it's a simple (and inexpensive) matter of replacing them. For filtration purposes, for your 1645.7 gallon (yes, you figured it exactly right) pond, you should have a pump and filter with a turnover rate of about 2000 GPH (or even somewhat slightly less), but you wouldn't need more. While a Pondmaster Model 1800 (Catalog #18) may be just adequate, you'd do better with a Model 2400 (catalog #24), especially if you still also having an addition, ordinary kind of waterfall (of no more than 3' high if you use this larger pump). If you have this plumbed to your weir though, you may want a larger pump (and filter) just so that you have more flow over your weir's "waterfall," even though you wouldn't need a larger flow for filtration purposes. Remember, you need to match the filter to the pump's flow rate. Tetra does make a Pondmaster 2000 Filter (Catalog #PMF20) for ponds up to 2000 gallons, but it's designed for the PM1800 pump (1800 GPH), not the PM2400 pump. When water gardens use a larger pump however, they divert part of the flow via a valve, through a parallel hose so as not to overpower their filter -- or their UV Unit (which has a much slower flow capacity). There's one thing you just recently mentioned in another message, and that is, that your 4' deep pond will be 3' above ground. I'm extremely curious -- what will these 3' of pond sides above the ground be supported with? Will you be building it up with cinder blocks or something similarly strong? I hope whatever you build this with above ground is strong, as water has a lot of weight (both down and outward). Along your 11' sides, where the 3' portion of the 4' deep sides meets the ground, you'll have a steady outward pressure of 2054 pounds and along your ends at this same location, at ground level, you'll have a steady outwards pressure of 933.75 pounds. This much pressure can move very substantially built retaining walls if they're not built strong enough. Otherwise, you can see what may happen; it may expand to 12' long X 6' wide < g > -- or 14' long X 8' wide (but only 1' high above ground (LOL). Oh, there's one thing I almost forgot to mention, which I thought you asked about -- the 1645 gallon pond can support three full size 32"+ Koi, and I think you said way back that that's the number of Koi you have. Ray --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, "Desire`" <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > it’s a rectangular shape. > > > http://www.watergarden.org/s.nl/it.A/id.222/.f ( I thought about getting > one of these, not sure if I should get 16 inch, 32 inch or ??) > > A weir is used in a lot of formal ponds. Instead of a cascading waterfall, > this one is more slick like a sheet of water. > > -----Original Message----- > From: SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:11 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > Hi Desire' > > A 20 x 20 liner should work fine for the smaller dimension you gave us > because 5 feet wide x 4 feet deep gives a total length of 13 feet when the > dimensions are flattened out but there is not much margin for error with > the longer dimension of 11 feet long x 4 feet deep because that gives a > total length from edge to edge of 19 feet. All of this is also depending on > the shape of the pond underwater, if it is simply rectangular like a > regular swimming pool in miniature all well & good but if there are > terraces/steps etc anywhere or any irregular forms then the total length of > liner needed will increase because it has to fit into all the recesses. > Think of a stair carpet stretched out tight & then fitted into all of the > steps, it will be far longer when stretched out so we need to know the > exact shape of your pond. > > I can't remember if we discussed the waterfall before but what is a > waterfall weir? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 8 March 2013 01:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I found the receipt! It was a 20x20. Will this work with the dimensions I > > gave? No liner is being used for the waterfall. I’m using a waterfall > > weir instead. > > > > Desire’ > > > > From: Des > > Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:40 PM > > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > > > > I wrote on here previously about building a koi pond...its in progress as > > we speak! > > Silly me, I accidently threw away my receipt for my EPDM liner that I > > bought at Drs. Foster and Smith and can't remember the size of my liner! > > then I could not remember the measurements I had previously figured out > > and > > ended up adding 2 feet to the length of my pond. The dimensions are now 5 > > feet wide x 11 feet long x 4 feet deep. I'm wondering if the liner I got > > will now fit??I don't know how to figure out the liner size. Someone on > > here had helped me to do so. I THINK I had got 15x20,but it MAY have been > > 20x20. Help??? Desire' in LA > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54524	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: New to the group

Hi Tom, Welcome the Group. Glad you found us. Let us know if you need any help, or feel free to offer any advice if you have any. Hope you enjoy it here and that we can be helpful to you. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54525	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Hi Noura. I moved up to a 40 from a 20 about 6 months ago. 36x18x18 Congratulations.... and my sympathies to hubby... who now has to carry more water. :-)>>> my 40 has a glass top also... when I got it I thought it was odd that the new light fixture had the same length of fluorescent bulb as the 20... I thought 2x the water would need 2x the light... more or less.. so since it's a glass top, I put on the light hood from the 20 on it, as well as the new hood. the smaller hood I put on about half the time...I put a blue marine bulb in it... it gives them more light and makes their colours look brighter. My advice would be to make sure the table is able to support almost twice the weight... mine concerned me, so I designed and built my own stand. Let us know how it goes Noura...it must be hard keeping people healthy there sometimes... you have fish to worry about also.... I start freaking out if the power goes out for even a few hours. You're an inspiration Noura. p.s. last week we had a problem with the water system and we had a "boil water advisory" for four days...I thought better safe than sorry for my pets, so I boiled enough for a p.w.c. then waited till it cooled to the right temperature before cleaning the tank... I had to do that for the 10 gallon.. I'm glad the water was ok before it was time to do the 40... 4 buckets full would have really sucked. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to a 36 G > long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > The expected measurements will be ( 35"Lx 15"Wx 23"H). I've made an > illustration of my planned tank, here's the link: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/180450 > 6936/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/18045 > 06936/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > If the link breaks, you can find the photo in my Album "Noura's Tanks in > Syria", in Aquaticlife Group's photo section. > > I'm in the planning phase and need some advice. > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not the best > disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many equipment in the > tank, but will live with it if it's better to keep it. > > - What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one half > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in the > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the glass > shop owner is clueless! > > > > Thanks, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54526	From: Patrick	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" wrote: > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to > a 36 G long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not > the best disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many > equipment in the tank, but will live with it if it's better to > keep it. My personal preference would be to NOT use an UGF, especially if you plan on going with live plants later. And to be perfectly honest, if you are not a great gravel vacuumer, an UGF is probably the worst choice since an UGF required good flow through it to work properly. On the other hand, a tank with good plant growth does not need much vacuuming at all as the plants can break down much of the waste and you really only need to occasionally go over the surface if you start to notice a built up and maybe those dead corners where debris accumulates. Not to say you shouldn't try to keep up with keeping the gravel cleaned up of course, but that a planted tank is probably the most forgiving if you don't. > What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one half > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in the > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the glass > shop owner is clueless! The tank doesn't come with an optional cut to fit cover? Although usually not a sliding type, most tank manufacturers provide fitted covers with rubber hinge and the front half of the cover flips open. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54527	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

Hi Desire', Not wanting to bombard you with questions as you have plenty of info to be going on with just now but I did notice you mentioned decking. Are you planning on having this overhanging the water at any point? I ask because decking can be very dangerous, fish can jump up & injure themselves on the overhang. John*<o)))<* On 9 March 2013 23:50, Desire` <mustanggirl83@...> wrote: > ** > > > Sorry, I don’t know what all my dad is using for the construction other > than a very thick sheet of wood for the walls. I have no knowledge of > carpentry so it’s a bit hard for me to explain. I know he has 2 x 4 s (?) > built on to the outside of each wall and right now has a narrow board in > center of pond to reinforce the walls ? I’m sorry I can’t explain much > better. We are going to put brick on the outside of the pond and one long > side of the pond is connected to our wooden fence with a narrow deck in > between the two. There is also a 3 feet wide deck (will be built onto) on > one of the short sides and other side will be same. In other words, the > pond is surrounded by deck. I would think this would give more strength to > the walls? we thought adding carpet padding along the sides might give the > liner better protection going up the sides? > > I hope this help some! My dad knows way more about it than I do as he is > the one doing it. He has over 40 years of carpentry experience and has > built MANY houses before, so I’m sure he will do an amazing job building my > pond. He knows how strong and sustainable houses (and ponds) would need to > be. One thing I thought of though...I wonder if hurricane straps on the > sides of the pond would help the walls to be stronger against water > pressure? (hope that isn’t a dumb thought!) We had to put these on the > ceiling and floor joists in our new home and our home is supposed to be > completely indestructable of even the strongest hurricane winds. Surely > this would help with water pressure as well?? > > Desire’ > > From: sevenspringss@... > Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > Desire', > > I realize that my reply was somewhat lengthy, but I just thought that the > details would be helpful to you. Looks like you haven't read it all > though, > as you haven't answer a very important question I asked -- about how the > 3' > of pond sides above ground level are supported. Perhaps you may want to go > back and re-read that message, and then let me know how you're doing this. > I haven't even seen you touch on what I wrote on this at all and I'm > extremely curious to know. > > One factor I didn't bring up though, is while you're living in southern > Louisiana (I believe), you mentioned that your weather can still get very > cold > at times. I'm not sure if your realize, that with 3/4 of the pond's volume > being above ground and exposed to the weather, that the water will cool > off > much faster (and colder) than it would if it were sunk into the ground > like > ordinary ponds. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54528	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Thanks Al ;) Ever since the conflicts started here, my connection with my fish grew stronger, they're an important part of my "survival kit" in the most stressful days. More than once I thought of taking them to any fish store, especially when we suffered 9-12 hours of outages every day this winter, I didn't want to watch them freeze to death, but didn't do it, because I thought they would freeze as well in the fish store's smaller tanks. At least I could do something here, wrap with blankets or heat some water. I only lost 3 weak Guppies all winter long. I'm VERY excited about the new tank, I enjoy planning every detail although there's always a possibility that we get obliged to leave home in a short notice and maybe leave it with no return, but we still have to live as best as we can for as long as we can meanwhile. I have to stock a spare filter, a heater and tons of fish food because all products are vanishing from the markets one by one, including those that are intended for human consumption. I even have to "stock" my Clown Loaches who have grown too big for the 20G because there aren't any smaller ones in the pet market. Sorry I didn't mean to take the thread too far in this direction, but sometimes a soul that is about to explode finds solace in the occasional venting outs. I've done some research, I think I'll put a couple of white bulbs along with a "pink" one and another blue one. I noticed that pink brings out nicer fish colors than blue. But blue provides a fancy and fresh look to the tank. Anyway, no plants for now. New substrate without nutrients, no plants in market, problem is unsolvable unless I waited a few years for my Anubias Nana's "babies" to grow bigger! I'm planning to make a DIY background if enough materials are available. Thanks for the comments, I'll keep you posted whenever there are news to share. Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Finally upgrading the community tank! Hi Noura. I moved up to a 40 from a 20 about 6 months ago. 36x18x18 Congratulations.... and my sympathies to hubby... who now has to carry more water. :-)>>> my 40 has a glass top also... when I got it I thought it was odd that the new light fixture had the same length of fluorescent bulb as the 20... I thought 2x the water would need 2x the light... more or less.. so since it's a glass top, I put on the light hood from the 20 on it, as well as the new hood. the smaller hood I put on about half the time...I put a blue marine bulb in it... it gives them more light and makes their colours look brighter. My advice would be to make sure the table is able to support almost twice the weight... mine concerned me, so I designed and built my own stand. Let us know how it goes Noura...it must be hard keeping people healthy there sometimes... you have fish to worry about also.... I start freaking out if the power goes out for even a few hours. You're an inspiration Noura. p.s. last week we had a problem with the water system and we had a "boil water advisory" for four days...I thought better safe than sorry for my pets, so I boiled enough for a p.w.c. then waited till it cooled to the right temperature before cleaning the tank... I had to do that for the 10 gallon.. I'm glad the water was ok before it was time to do the 40... 4 buckets full would have really sucked. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to a 36 G > long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > The expected measurements will be ( 35"Lx 15"Wx 23"H). I've made an > illustration of my planned tank, here's the link: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/180450 > 6936/view?picmode= > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/18045 > 06936/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc> > &mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc > > If the link breaks, you can find the photo in my Album "Noura's Tanks in > Syria", in Aquaticlife Group's photo section. > > I'm in the planning phase and need some advice. > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not the best > disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many equipment in the > tank, but will live with it if it's better to keep it. > > - What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one half > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in the > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the glass > shop owner is clueless! > > > > Thanks, > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54529	From: Desire`	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction)

no, it will not. its alright...I appreciate all the info everyone has given! Desire’ From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 8:18 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) Hi Desire', Not wanting to bombard you with questions as you have plenty of info to be going on with just now but I did notice you mentioned decking. Are you planning on having this overhanging the water at any point? I ask because decking can be very dangerous, fish can jump up & injure themselves on the overhang. John*<o)))<* On 9 March 2013 23:50, Desire` <mailto:mustanggirl83%40mobiletel.com> wrote: > ** > > > Sorry, I don’t know what all my dad is using for the construction other > than a very thick sheet of wood for the walls. I have no knowledge of > carpentry so it’s a bit hard for me to explain. I know he has 2 x 4 s (?) > built on to the outside of each wall and right now has a narrow board in > center of pond to reinforce the walls ? I’m sorry I can’t explain much > better. We are going to put brick on the outside of the pond and one long > side of the pond is connected to our wooden fence with a narrow deck in > between the two. There is also a 3 feet wide deck (will be built onto) on > one of the short sides and other side will be same. In other words, the > pond is surrounded by deck. I would think this would give more strength to > the walls? we thought adding carpet padding along the sides might give the > liner better protection going up the sides? > > I hope this help some! My dad knows way more about it than I do as he is > the one doing it. He has over 40 years of carpentry experience and has > built MANY houses before, so I’m sure he will do an amazing job building my > pond. He knows how strong and sustainable houses (and ponds) would need to > be. One thing I thought of though...I wonder if hurricane straps on the > sides of the pond would help the walls to be stronger against water > pressure? (hope that isn’t a dumb thought!) We had to put these on the > ceiling and floor joists in our new home and our home is supposed to be > completely indestructable of even the strongest hurricane winds. Surely > this would help with water pressure as well?? > > Desire’ > > From: mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com > Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 4:32 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP! (Koi pond construction) > > > Desire', > > I realize that my reply was somewhat lengthy, but I just thought that the > details would be helpful to you. Looks like you haven't read it all > though, > as you haven't answer a very important question I asked -- about how the > 3' > of pond sides above ground level are supported. Perhaps you may want to go > back and re-read that message, and then let me know how you're doing this. > I haven't even seen you touch on what I wrote on this at all and I'm > extremely curious to know. > > One factor I didn't bring up though, is while you're living in southern > Louisiana (I believe), you mentioned that your weather can still get very > cold > at times. I'm not sure if your realize, that with 3/4 of the pond's volume > being above ground and exposed to the weather, that the water will cool > off > much faster (and colder) than it would if it were sunk into the ground > like > ordinary ponds. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54530	From: Noura	Date: 3/10/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Hello Patrick, and thank you. I must have been mistaken thinking that UGFs give live plants a better environment. I'm glad they don't. I've installed my UGF following the advice of the fish store owner. As for the glass cover, the tank is custom made. The manufacturer owns a glass workshop and builds tanks according to customers' measurements. A friend in this group suggested eliminating the glass cover all together since I'm going for a wooden hood. However, I think it's best to keep the tank "half- covered" in order to protect the compact fluorescent bulbs or LED panels from direct drizzles. If only kept "half-covered" I will only need two 13" thin glass rectangles siliconed to the tanks side panels to hold that one glass panel. Thanks, Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Finally upgrading the community tank! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Noura" wrote: > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to > a 36 G long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not > the best disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many > equipment in the tank, but will live with it if it's better to > keep it. My personal preference would be to NOT use an UGF, especially if you plan on going with live plants later. And to be perfectly honest, if you are not a great gravel vacuumer, an UGF is probably the worst choice since an UGF required good flow through it to work properly. On the other hand, a tank with good plant growth does not need much vacuuming at all as the plants can break down much of the waste and you really only need to occasionally go over the surface if you start to notice a built up and maybe those dead corners where debris accumulates. Not to say you shouldn't try to keep up with keeping the gravel cleaned up of course, but that a planted tank is probably the most forgiving if you don't. > What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one half > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in the > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the glass > shop owner is clueless! The tank doesn't come with an optional cut to fit cover? Although usually not a sliding type, most tank manufacturers provide fitted covers with rubber hinge and the front half of the cover flips open. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54531	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/11/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Hi Noura, I would just like to echo Al's comment about your being an inspiration-you are doing a fantastic job for your fish in such harsh circumstances. Sometimes I think it is easy for us to get bogged down in our daily life & we moan & groan about things that really are not that important-we forget how lucky we are to only have these minor things to complain about. Compared to yourself most of us have nothing to grumble about at all so I wish you & your hubby all the best & hope for a speedy end to the hostilities in your country. John*<o)))<* On 10 March 2013 19:58, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Patrick, and thank you. > > I must have been mistaken thinking that UGFs give live plants a better > environment. I'm glad they don't. I've installed my UGF following the > advice > of the fish store owner. > > As for the glass cover, the tank is custom made. The manufacturer owns a > glass workshop and builds tanks according to customers' measurements. > > A friend in this group suggested eliminating the glass cover all together > since I'm going for a wooden hood. However, I think it's best to keep the > tank "half- covered" in order to protect the compact fluorescent bulbs or > LED panels from direct drizzles. If only kept "half-covered" I will only > need two 13" thin glass rectangles siliconed to the tanks side panels to > hold that one glass panel. > > Thanks, > > > Noura > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Patrick > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Finally upgrading the community tank! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > "Noura" wrote: > > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to > > a 36 G long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not > > the best disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many > > equipment in the tank, but will live with it if it's better to > > keep it. > > My personal preference would be to NOT use an UGF, especially if you plan > on > going with live plants later. And to be perfectly honest, if you are not a > great gravel vacuumer, an UGF is probably the worst choice since an UGF > required good flow through it to work properly. On the other hand, a tank > with good plant growth does not need much vacuuming at all as the plants > can > break down much of the waste and you really only need to occasionally go > over the surface if you start to notice a built up and maybe those dead > corners where debris accumulates. Not to say you shouldn't try to keep up > with keeping the gravel cleaned up of course, but that a planted tank is > probably the most forgiving if you don't. > > > What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one > half > > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in > the > > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the > glass > > shop owner is clueless! > > The tank doesn't come with an optional cut to fit cover? Although usually > not a sliding type, most tank manufacturers provide fitted covers with > rubber hinge and the front half of the cover flips open. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54532	From: Patrick	Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" wrote: > I must have been mistaken thinking that UGFs give live plants a better > environment. I'm glad they don't. I've installed my UGF following the advice > of the fish store owner. You can grow some plants in tanks with UGF, but as I mentioned before, free flow through the gravel bed is the fundamental aspect of how an UGF works, so plant root systems tend to be counter to this. In essence, the better your plants do, the worse your UGF would do. :) Depending on the plant type, some or more dependent on their root systems for nutrients than others so a normal gravel bed which has some accumulation of waste is a more healthy environment for those types of plants as their roots can pick up what they need. In an UGF setup, the idea is to keep the area under the plate as free of waste of possible and not let the gravel bed itself get clogged. But for those who like UGFs, you can still have plants but it best to pick ones that can either be grown floating or planted ones that do not need to be deep nor send out much roots (java ferns come to mind). There is nothing wrong with UGF but they are an old idea now and in my opinion there are a lot better ideas out there with equipment we have today. But like a good old box filter or sponge filter, they still have their uses. But some old school pet store owners still cling to the UGF as the cutting edge of filtration. :) > As for the glass cover, the tank is custom made. The manufacturer owns a > glass workshop and builds tanks according to customers' measurements. Ah, ok. When you said bowfront, I figured you were talking about one of the commercial models. > A friend in this group suggested eliminating the glass cover all together > since I'm going for a wooden hood. However, I think it's best to keep the > tank "half- covered" in order to protect the compact fluorescent bulbs or > LED panels from direct drizzles. If only kept "half-covered" I will only > need two 13" thin glass rectangles siliconed to the tanks side panels to > hold that one glass panel. Ya open tanks work sometimes. I have one tank that I used to run open top in the summer when the light fixture could straddle the length of the tank, but I later switched to a smaller fixture that needs the glass to sit on so not I leave the glass cover on year round. One nice thing about open top tanks, especially if you can hang or mount the light a few inches above the top of the tank is you can grow some floating type plants that don't work well under a cover unless you lower the water level a fair bit. Water Lettuce, which do get rather big and best suited for ponds, can still be fun in these type of tanks. Some fish love the dangling roots. But because the head is all above water, you need at least 4-6 inches of headroom. My own problem with open top tanks is that I am in Massachusetts and I have forced hot air heating which we keep low. So in winter my house is cool (64F) and low humidity so any heated tanks lose a lot of water due to evaporation. So full covers help keep that down. Although on the flip side it also means glass covers get yucky faster needing to be scraped of algae and hard water deposits to keep light levels though them up. Ah, the troubles of keeping fish tanks! :) Have fun, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54533	From: Noura	Date: 3/12/2013
Subject: Re: Finally upgrading the community tank!

Naaah.. you would have done just the same thing if you had to live these circumstances. When it comes to the basics, we're all one J Thanks for the kind wishes my friend! Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 4:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Finally upgrading the community tank! Hi Noura, I would just like to echo Al's comment about your being an inspiration-you are doing a fantastic job for your fish in such harsh circumstances. Sometimes I think it is easy for us to get bogged down in our daily life & we moan & groan about things that really are not that important-we forget how lucky we are to only have these minor things to complain about. Compared to yourself most of us have nothing to grumble about at all so I wish you & your hubby all the best & hope for a speedy end to the hostilities in your country. John*<o)))<* On 10 March 2013 19:58, Noura <n-ocean@... <mailto:n-ocean%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > ** > > > Hello Patrick, and thank you. > > I must have been mistaken thinking that UGFs give live plants a better > environment. I'm glad they don't. I've installed my UGF following the > advice > of the fish store owner. > > As for the glass cover, the tank is custom made. The manufacturer owns a > glass workshop and builds tanks according to customers' measurements. > > A friend in this group suggested eliminating the glass cover all together > since I'm going for a wooden hood. However, I think it's best to keep the > tank "half- covered" in order to protect the compact fluorescent bulbs or > LED panels from direct drizzles. If only kept "half-covered" I will only > need two 13" thin glass rectangles siliconed to the tanks side panels to > hold that one glass panel. > > Thanks, > > > Noura > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Patrick > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 7:39 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Finally upgrading the community tank! > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > "Noura" wrote: > > I'm finally able of upgrading my 20 G bowfront community tank to > > a 36 G long. This is the maximum size that will fit on the table. > > > > - Should I keep the under-gravel filter? > > > > Some guiding facts: I may try live plants in the future, I'm not > > the best disciplined gravel vacuumer, and I don't like to see many > > equipment in the tank, but will live with it if it's better to > > keep it. > > My personal preference would be to NOT use an UGF, especially if you plan > on > going with live plants later. And to be perfectly honest, if you are not a > great gravel vacuumer, an UGF is probably the worst choice since an UGF > required good flow through it to work properly. On the other hand, a tank > with good plant growth does not need much vacuuming at all as the plants > can > break down much of the waste and you really only need to occasionally go > over the surface if you start to notice a built up and maybe those dead > corners where debris accumulates. Not to say you shouldn't try to keep up > with keeping the gravel cleaned up of course, but that a planted tank is > probably the most forgiving if you don't. > > > What is the best method for holding the glass cover so it will be > > easy to slide? We used to use plastic or Aluminium "rails" to allow one > half > > of the glass cover to slide back and forth above the other half, but in > the > > current war circumstances these rails are not not available, and the > glass > > shop owner is clueless! > > The tank doesn't come with an optional cut to fit cover? Although usually > not a sliding type, most tank manufacturers provide fitted covers with > rubber hinge and the front half of the cover flips open. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54534	From: melanie199225	Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Help! Swim Bladder

My gold fish has what seems to be swim bladder. I read to feed him peas but can't get him to eat. what should i do?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54535	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/14/2013
Subject: Re: Help! Swim Bladder

Hi Melanie, Can you describe the symptoms you are seeing please? Also can you give us a little background on your fish & set up: How old is he? How many fish do you have? How long has this been going on? Is he a fancy [fat-bodied] or regular [streamlined] Goldfish? How big is your tank? What filtration do you have? How much & how often do you change the water? Can you tell us your water readings? If he does have a swim bladder disorder then feeding the peas will not help but they may work if it is just constipation because peas can have a mild laxative effect. Either way we will need some of the above info to make a more informed guess at what is going on & be able to help you & your fish better. John*<o)))<* On 14 March 2013 21:46, melanie199225 <melanie199225@...> wrote: > ** > > > My gold fish has what seems to be swim bladder. I read to feed him peas > but can't get him to eat. what should i do? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54536	From: A Comulada	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Hi, new group member

Just thought i'd jump right in... Name is Anthony, been having fun with freshwater for a couple years now. I have a Oceanic 44 gal Hex planted community tank and a 10gal with a couple acie cichlids that are getting ready to move to a larger home here soon. Looking forward to getting in on the discussions!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54537	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: Hi, new group member

Hi Anthony, Welcome to the Group. Glad to meet you (see you) here, and glad you found us. Let us know if we can help in any way. Noticed you're into Malawi Cichlids; what size tank will you be moving them to? I'm assuming you have assorted community tank fish in your planted tank(?). Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54538	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/15/2013
Subject: Re: Hi, new group member

Welcome Anthony. What do you have in the 44? I have a 40 breeder and a 10. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "A Comulada" <comulada@...> wrote: > > Just thought i'd jump right in... > > Name is Anthony, been having fun with freshwater for a couple years now. I have a Oceanic 44 gal Hex planted community tank and a 10gal with a couple acie cichlids that are getting ready to move to a larger home here soon. > > Looking forward to getting in on the discussions! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54539	From: melanie199225	Date: 3/20/2013
Subject: Fish disease

Hello. I joined this group because one of my goldfish was dying. He was swimming upside down, sideways, into walls, and at the bottom of the tank. I placed him in a seperate tank. thought it was probably a swim bladder problem. he then got dark red streaks on his fins and dark splotches all over. his fins started to decay like fin rot but and i treated him with fungus clear. I also treaked the regular tank. he died the day before yesterday. My problem is that my older fish, about five or six years old, now has a few red streaks through out its tail fin and also a couple of dark spots. I think its hemorrhagic septicemium but am not sure. I am having a very hard time finding any treatment for it and the things that i have found are confusing because im not sure what kinds of treatments are safe to use together please help :( only one Comet goldfish now 30 gallon tank Temp stays about 73 Nitrite=0 amonia=0 nitrates= 10 ph =above 8 (major problem im trying to fix)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54540	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Hi Melanie, It's unfortunate that you didn't contact us again, when your first fish got the red streaking in its fins. The manifestation you describe for this issue certainly sounds like Hemorrhagic Septicema -- blood poisoning caused by toxins produced by certain pathogens in the circulatory system, and I'd say that this is exactly what's going on in your fish. While you've indicated that your tank is 30 gallons, I don't recall your stating how large your fish are, although at 5 to 6 years old, they'd have to be considerably large, abeit most probably somewhat stunted since they should each have at least 75 gallons -- with them having the potential of reaching 14". I'm sorry to hear that you lost one fish to this malady, though. Indirect, but totally contributing causes are overcrowding and inadequate water conditions, although you're saying that your present parameters are zero ammonia and zero nitrite (with only 10 ppm nitrate). The most frequent cause of this issue is high ammonia. Have you recently been doing large partial water changes to produce better conditions for your fish, and might the ammonia and/or nitrite have been much (or any) higher when this disease first appeared? This issue has two different direct causes, one being Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia (VHSv) and the other being Bacterial Hemhorrhagic Septicemia (BHS). The bacterial form in tropical aquaria is by far the most prevalent, being caused by an Aeromonas (A. hydrophila) bacterium, although the viral form (btw, very contagious) could still be causative. As your septicemia issue is being accompanied by "fin decay" (fin rot, which you're assuming to be a fungal issue), I'd have to say that your fish most probably has Bacterial Hemhorragic Septicemia as this fin rot is undoubtedly a bacterial issue caused by closely related anaerobic bacteria (Pseuodomonas). Both of these bacterial pathogens are opportunists which, when present, will invade your fish and overwhelm the immune system when the immune system is compromised by stress. As I stated above, most often this stress is high ammonia, but lower oxygen content or higher carbon dioxide content in the water will also be stressors sufficient to induce the malady, and can be caused by overcrowding. With two 5 to 6 year old Comet Goldfish in such a small tank -- when they really needed 150 gallons, so as not become crowded -- I find it difficult to believe their tank's water never had elevated ammonia -- but if all the parameters were always within a safe range, there could still be other conditions in your tank that could bring this issue on, supporting these pathogens passively. We're all aware that goldfish are heavy producers of organic wastes. How often, and how well do you clean your gravel? With heavy waste producers such as Goldfish, the gravel needs to not only be cleaned more often than with other fishes, but it needs to be ensured that the gravel be deep-cleaned (vacuumed) regularly -- as with a Python (Aqueon) gravel tube, as an example. If the gravel is not thoughly deep cleaned regulary, a build up of wastes will accumulate -- especially over 5 to 6 years -- which promotes the very environment conducive to the conditions anaerobic bacteria (Aeromonas and Pseudomonas) thrive in, including the ones that can become pathogenic (but in a latent form) that will attack your fish at the first opportunity. There are some of these species which reside in fishes' digestive tracts, showing how well they'll thrive in anaerobic conditions, but this isn't that common. Most cases of this in the aquarium are caused by these bacteria residing somewhere in the aquarium, and the anaerobic conditions in waste impacted gravel is where they'd be found. I'd advise you clean your gravel thoroughly, do a sufficently large water change afterwards to be sure the ammonia and nitrite is remaining at zero and treat with a good gram-negative broad spectrum, readily absorbed antibiotic. While Oxytetracycline and Neomycin may be used the medication of choice would be Kanamycin (Seachem's Kanaplex). Kanamycin is also instrumental treating against Pseudomonas-caused bacteria fin rot. Additionally, a token amount of salt may be added to the water, as one teaspoon per gallon per day (for Goldfish) -- for two consecutive days -- total amount having been added after two days being 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon, which helps not only with the blood issue but makes it more difficult for bacterial fin rot. Your high pH -- while still not really excessively high for Goldfish -- makes even the smallest amounts of ammonia toxic when allowed to accumulate even at such low levels as 0.25 ppm, so keep monitoring your parameters at all times. Keep a good water conditioner (like Prime or AmQuell+) on hand to be ready to dose at the first sign of ammonia if you can't do a PWC right away. This will turn any ammonia into toxic-free ammonium, and it's effective for 48 hours (only). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54541	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Hi Melanie, Very sorry to hear you lost your Comet, sounds like a bacterial infection & your water stats look ok except for the pH-how much above 8 does it go? Also has it been fluctuating at all? that could cause major problems-can you test your tap water & let us know what the pH is there please. The dark splotches you mention could be toxic burns which indicate water quality problems-has your stats been good for some time? The low nitrate would indicate you do regular & large water changes which is a good thing. It would be really helpful if you could post some photos of your fish so we can see what the extent of the problem is. John*<o)))<* On 21 March 2013 04:16, melanie199225 <melanie199225@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello. I joined this group because one of my goldfish was dying. He was > swimming upside down, sideways, into walls, and at the bottom of the tank. > I placed him in a seperate tank. thought it was probably a swim bladder > problem. he then got dark red streaks on his fins and dark splotches all > over. his fins started to decay like fin rot but and i treated him with > fungus clear. I also treaked the regular tank. he died the day before > yesterday. My problem is that my older fish, about five or six years old, > now has a few red streaks through out its tail fin and also a couple of > dark spots. I think its hemorrhagic septicemium but am not sure. I am > having a very hard time finding any treatment for it and the things that i > have found are confusing because im not sure what kinds of treatments are > safe to use together > please help :( > only one Comet goldfish now > 30 gallon tank > Temp stays about 73 > Nitrite=0 > amonia=0 > nitrates= 10 > ph =above 8 (major problem im trying to fix) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54542	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Is it ok to use maracyn 2 after i just used fungus guard yesterday? The first fish looked like he had fin rot but the other one has't shown any signs yet but i did treat her. Petsmart (the only petstore around because they put all the good mom and pop stores out of business) has Maracyn 2. I could not find Neomycin or Kanamycin. However Maracyn 2 is Gram-Negative antibiotic so it should be good. My sister was doing alot of research lastnight and said that people were saying that septicemia needs to be treated with an internal antibiotic like triplesulfa, trisulfa, tc tabs (all the same stuff). However we can not find the triple sulfa stuff at petsmart. Is triplesulfa something that we need to use. If it is we have to go to a different petstore to find it.   From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish disease Hi  Melanie, It's unfortunate that you didn't contact us again, when your first fish got the red streaking in its fins.  The manifestation you describe for this issue certainly sounds like Hemorrhagic Septicema -- blood poisoning caused by toxins produced by certain pathogens in the circulatory system, and I'd say that this is exactly what's going on in your fish.  While you've indicated that your tank is 30 gallons, I don't recall your stating how large your fish are, although at 5 to 6 years old, they'd have to be considerably large, abeit most probably somewhat stunted since they should each have at least 75 gallons -- with them having the potential of reaching 14".  I'm sorry to hear that you lost one fish to this malady, though.  Indirect, but totally contributing causes are overcrowding and inadequate water conditions, although you're saying that your present parameters are zero ammonia and zero nitrite (with only 10 ppm nitrate).  The most frequent cause of this issue is high ammonia.  Have you recently been doing large partial water changes to produce better conditions for your fish, and might the ammonia and/or nitrite have been much (or any) higher when this disease first appeared? This issue has two different direct causes, one being Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia (VHSv) and the other being Bacterial Hemhorrhagic Septicemia (BHS).  The bacterial form in tropical aquaria is by far the most prevalent, being caused by an Aeromonas (A. hydrophila) bacterium, although the viral form (btw, very contagious) could still be causative.  As your septicemia issue is being accompanied by "fin decay" (fin rot, which you're assuming to be a fungal issue), I'd have to say that your fish most probably has Bacterial Hemhorragic Septicemia as this fin rot is undoubtedly a bacterial issue caused by closely related anaerobic bacteria (Pseuodomonas). Both of these bacterial pathogens are opportunists which, when present, will invade your fish and overwhelm the immune system when the immune system is compromised by stress.  As I stated above, most often this stress is high ammonia, but lower oxygen content or higher carbon dioxide content in the water will also be stressors sufficient to induce the malady, and can be caused by overcrowding.  With two 5 to 6 year old Comet Goldfish in such a small tank -- when they really needed 150 gallons, so as not become crowded -- I find it difficult to believe their tank's water never had elevated ammonia -- but if all the parameters were always within a safe range, there could still be other conditions in your tank that could bring this issue on, supporting these pathogens passively. We're all aware that goldfish are heavy producers of organic wastes.  How often, and how well do you clean your gravel?  With heavy waste producers such as Goldfish, the gravel needs to not only be cleaned more often than with other fishes, but it needs to be ensured that the gravel be deep-cleaned (vacuumed) regularly -- as with a Python (Aqueon) gravel tube, as an example.  If the gravel is not thoughly deep cleaned regulary, a build up of wastes will accumulate -- especially over 5 to 6 years -- which promotes the very environment conducive to the conditions anaerobic bacteria (Aeromonas and Pseudomonas) thrive in, including the ones that can become pathogenic (but in a latent form) that will attack your fish at the first opportunity.  There are some of these species which reside in fishes' digestive tracts, showing how well they'll thrive in anaerobic conditions, but this isn't that common.  Most cases of this in the aquarium are caused by these bacteria residing somewhere in the aquarium, and the anaerobic conditions in waste impacted gravel is where they'd be found.  I'd advise you clean your gravel thoroughly, do a sufficently large water change afterwards to be sure the ammonia and nitrite is remaining at zero and treat with a good gram-negative broad spectrum, readily absorbed antibiotic.  While Oxytetracycline and Neomycin may be used the medication of choice would be Kanamycin (Seachem's Kanaplex).  Kanamycin is also instrumental treating against Pseudomonas-caused bacteria fin rot.  Additionally, a token amount of salt may be added to the water, as one teaspoon per gallon per day (for Goldfish) -- for two consecutive days -- total amount having been added after two days being 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon, which helps not only with the blood issue but makes it more difficult for bacterial fin rot. Your high pH -- while still not really excessively high for Goldfish -- makes even the smallest amounts of ammonia toxic when allowed to accumulate even at such low levels as 0.25 ppm, so keep monitoring your parameters at all times.  Keep a good water conditioner (like Prime or AmQuell+) on hand to be ready to dose at the first sign of ammonia if you can't do a PWC right away. This will turn any ammonia into toxic-free ammonium, and it's effective for 48 hours (only).      Ray  </HTML> ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54543	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Is it ok to use maracyn 2 after i just used fungus guard yesterday? The first fish looked like he had fin rot but the other one has't shown any signs yet but i did treat her. Petsmart (the only petstore around because they put all the good mom and pop stores out of business) has Maracyn 2. I could not find Neomycin or Kanamycin. However Maracyn 2 is Gram-Negative antibiotic so it should be good. My sister was doing alot of research lastnight and said that people were saying that septicemia needs to be treated with an internal antibiotic like triplesulfa, trisulfa, tc tabs (all the same stuff). However we can not find the triple sulfa stuff at petsmart. Is triplesulfa something that we need to use. If it is we have to go to a different petstore to find it.   From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish disease Hi  Melanie, It's unfortunate that you didn't contact us again, when your first fish got the red streaking in its fins.  The manifestation you describe for this issue certainly sounds like Hemorrhagic Septicema -- blood poisoning caused by toxins produced by certain pathogens in the circulatory system, and I'd say that this is exactly what's going on in your fish.  While you've indicated that your tank is 30 gallons, I don't recall your stating how large your fish are, although at 5 to 6 years old, they'd have to be considerably large, abeit most probably somewhat stunted since they should each have at least 75 gallons -- with them having the potential of reaching 14".  I'm sorry to hear that you lost one fish to this malady, though.  Indirect, but totally contributing causes are overcrowding and inadequate water conditions, although you're saying that your present parameters are zero ammonia and zero nitrite (with only 10 ppm nitrate).  The most frequent cause of this issue is high ammonia.  Have you recently been doing large partial water changes to produce better conditions for your fish, and might the ammonia and/or nitrite have been much (or any) higher when this disease first appeared? This issue has two different direct causes, one being Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia (VHSv) and the other being Bacterial Hemhorrhagic Septicemia (BHS).  The bacterial form in tropical aquaria is by far the most prevalent, being caused by an Aeromonas (A. hydrophila) bacterium, although the viral form (btw, very contagious) could still be causative.  As your septicemia issue is being accompanied by "fin decay" (fin rot, which you're assuming to be a fungal issue), I'd have to say that your fish most probably has Bacterial Hemhorragic Septicemia as this fin rot is undoubtedly a bacterial issue caused by closely related anaerobic bacteria (Pseuodomonas). Both of these bacterial pathogens are opportunists which, when present, will invade your fish and overwhelm the immune system when the immune system is compromised by stress.  As I stated above, most often this stress is high ammonia, but lower oxygen content or higher carbon dioxide content in the water will also be stressors sufficient to induce the malady, and can be caused by overcrowding.  With two 5 to 6 year old Comet Goldfish in such a small tank -- when they really needed 150 gallons, so as not become crowded -- I find it difficult to believe their tank's water never had elevated ammonia -- but if all the parameters were always within a safe range, there could still be other conditions in your tank that could bring this issue on, supporting these pathogens passively. We're all aware that goldfish are heavy producers of organic wastes.  How often, and how well do you clean your gravel?  With heavy waste producers such as Goldfish, the gravel needs to not only be cleaned more often than with other fishes, but it needs to be ensured that the gravel be deep-cleaned (vacuumed) regularly -- as with a Python (Aqueon) gravel tube, as an example.  If the gravel is not thoughly deep cleaned regulary, a build up of wastes will accumulate -- especially over 5 to 6 years -- which promotes the very environment conducive to the conditions anaerobic bacteria (Aeromonas and Pseudomonas) thrive in, including the ones that can become pathogenic (but in a latent form) that will attack your fish at the first opportunity.  There are some of these species which reside in fishes' digestive tracts, showing how well they'll thrive in anaerobic conditions, but this isn't that common.  Most cases of this in the aquarium are caused by these bacteria residing somewhere in the aquarium, and the anaerobic conditions in waste impacted gravel is where they'd be found.  I'd advise you clean your gravel thoroughly, do a sufficently large water change afterwards to be sure the ammonia and nitrite is remaining at zero and treat with a good gram-negative broad spectrum, readily absorbed antibiotic.  While Oxytetracycline and Neomycin may be used the medication of choice would be Kanamycin (Seachem's Kanaplex).  Kanamycin is also instrumental treating against Pseudomonas-caused bacteria fin rot.  Additionally, a token amount of salt may be added to the water, as one teaspoon per gallon per day (for Goldfish) -- for two consecutive days -- total amount having been added after two days being 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon, which helps not only with the blood issue but makes it more difficult for bacterial fin rot. Your high pH -- while still not really excessively high for Goldfish -- makes even the smallest amounts of ammonia toxic when allowed to accumulate even at such low levels as 0.25 ppm, so keep monitoring your parameters at all times.  Keep a good water conditioner (like Prime or AmQuell+) on hand to be ready to dose at the first sign of ammonia if you can't do a PWC right away. This will turn any ammonia into toxic-free ammonium, and it's effective for 48 hours (only).      Ray  </HTML> ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54544	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Hi Melanie, I didn't think my message was posted to the Yahoo group, as I never received a Yahoo email of it back in my in box -- which I would normally get. I'm glad you got it, as I wouldn't have had time to type it all again, IF I could remember everything I wanted to tell you. I saw the John sent you a message on it, and hoped his reply helped in place of mine. When I said that a gram-negative, broad spectrum readily absorbable antibiotic was needed -- and I recommended Kamamycin (or Neomycin) -- by "readily absorbable," I meant readily absorbed internally. Yes, just as your sister found, to treat Hemorragic Septicemia, the medication needs to get inside of the fish, and these two antibiotics will do just that; I would not have recommended it otherwise. Sulfa drugs will work, but they'll kill your nitrifying bacteria. Yes, fortunately Maracyn 2 (Minocycline) -- another gram-negative broad spectrum antibiotic -- is also readily absorbable -- internally! So yes, you may use that medication. There aren't many antibiotics that are absorbed internally by scaled fishes (all too many are absorbed, and at the wrong rate, by scaleless fishes -- like Cory's, etc). One other gram-negative bacticide that's readily absorbable is Naladixic Acid, which has ts uses. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54545	From: Melanie Crawford	Date: 3/21/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

ok. Thank you so much. Your answer has helped a lot :) From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Fish disease Hi Melanie, I didn't think my message was posted to the Yahoo group, as I never received a Yahoo email of it back in my in box -- which I would normally get.  I'm glad you got it, as I wouldn't have had time to type it all again, IF I could remember everything I wanted to tell you.  I saw the John sent you a message on it, and hoped his reply helped in place of mine. When I said that a gram-negative, broad spectrum readily absorbable antibiotic was needed -- and I recommended Kamamycin (or Neomycin) -- by "readily absorbable," I meant readily absorbed internally.  Yes, just as your sister found, to treat Hemorragic Septicemia, the medication needs to get inside of the fish, and these two antibiotics will do just that; I would not have recommended it otherwise.  Sulfa drugs will work, but they'll kill your nitrifying bacteria.  Yes, fortunately Maracyn 2 (Minocycline) -- another gram-negative broad spectrum antibiotic -- is also readily absorbable -- internally! So yes, you may use that medication.  There aren't many antibiotics that are absorbed internally by scaled fishes (all too many are absorbed, and at the wrong rate, by scaleless fishes -- like Cory's, etc).  One other gram-negative bacticide that's readily absorbable is Naladixic Acid, which has ts uses. Ray</HTML> ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54546	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Fish disease

Hi Melanie, Just wanted to clarify for your (and others') possible future medication needs, API's (Aquarium Pharmaceutical Inc's) Triple Sulfa and another brand's Tri-Sulfa are not the same stuff as API's T.C. Tabs. T.C. Tabs is Tetracycline, an altogether different antibiotic -- which has it definite uses -- but should not be used in hard water conditions above pH 7.5 as it binds with the calcium and magnesium in the water at and above this pH value and losses it's effectiveness. Even in softer water, it will still tend to combine with these hardening elements if present, but to a much lessor extent. I know I've stated this several times in the past, but thought this would be a good time to add this reminder again. As for your mixing any medications you're not sure of, this should be avoided when the results wouldn't be known, and I apologize for not catching this sooner, where you ask about mixing Maracyn 2 with the Fungus Guard you've been using. While I don't see any danger in using Mardel's minocycline with Jungle Lab's Fungus Guard (sodium chloride, potassium chloride, triethylene glycol, methylene blue, polyvinyl pyrroidone and nitromersol acriflavin), mixing meds indiscriminently just should not be done to avoid any possible negative effect -- unless you know otherwise that the combination would have no adverse impact. There are some medications that can be used together, and still others that always need to be combined together for best effect, but unless you know the properties of fish medications, it's something you wouldn't want to do. Medications having no further use can easily be removed from the water with carbon added to the filter before adding a new medication. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54547	From: Robert	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Feeding Amount

I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a day. How much total should I feed them in one day? Robert

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54548	From: Efrain Montanez	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low quantity of food... On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a day. How much total should I feed them in one day? > Robert > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54549	From: 708804@gmail.com	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Thanks. But Ive read the latest research says 5 times is good because in nature they graze like this. I'm wondering how many Hikari pellets to feed each time. -------Original Message------- From: Efrain Montanez Date: 03/23/13 04:08:55 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low quantity of food... On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a day. How much total should I feed them in one day? > Robert > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54550	From: harry perry	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Nature is not a contained environment. It would help if the research wasn't sponsored by the fish food industry. Once a day or once every other day is sufficient. Excess fish food is algae food. Harry ________________________________ From: "708804@..." <708804@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount   Thanks. But Ive read the latest research says 5 times is good because in nature they graze like this. I'm wondering how many Hikari pellets to feed each time. -------Original Message------- From: Efrain Montanez Date: 03/23/13 04:08:55 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low quantity of food... On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a day. How much total should I feed them in one day? > Robert > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54551	From: deenerzz	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

What Harry said. Also goldfish have over 1,000 years of domestication and it is fairly safe to say have changed from their wild cousins. Mike -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 22, 2013 10:43 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount Nature is not a contained environment. It would help if the research wasn't sponsored by the fish food industry. Once a day or once every other day is sufficient. Excess fish food is algae food. Harry ________________________________ From: "708804@...708804@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount Thanks. But Ive read the latest research says 5 times is good because in nature they graze like this. I'm wondering how many Hikari pellets to feed each time. -------Original Message------- From: Efrain Montanez Date: 03/23/13 04:08:55 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low quantity of food... On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a day. How much total should I feed them in one day? > Robert > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54552	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Robert, With respect to the other replies I don't think anyone has quite got what you are asking, my understanding is that you want to feed your fish the same amount that you would feed them once but broken up into multiple feeds so they are still getting the same amount each day but not all at once. I do the same with my fish & I think it is a good idea if you have the lifestyle to accommodate that regime. Even though Goldfish have been domesticated for a long time it surely is better to feed them in moderation rather than all at once, that would be like us having all of our daily intake of food in one sitting. What type[s] of food are you offering them? Pellets-sinking or floating are a better staple diet than flakes. Start by giving them just a tiny pinch & see how long it takes them to completely devour it all. Let's assume that it takes then 2 minutes to consume 10 small pellets [5 each] & using 2 minutes as a rough guide if you wanted to spread the feeds through 3 sittings you could have 4, 4 & 2. That would give a total of 10 pellets fed during the day the same as the one feed. This is just a suggestion, you can increase or decrease the amount according to the time taken to eat them all &/or any other factors. Obviously as they grow you will need to increase the amount pro-rata. Let us know what you think about this, can you also let us know what size tank you have? I'm guessing that you are new to Goldfish keeping? You must always bear in mind that what you put in at one end of the fish comes out at the other end as waste & that waste will immediately start to pollute the water so big filtration, large tanks & plenty of partial water changes-dilution is the key. If in doubt always under-feed, I have never heard of a Goldfish dying from under feeding but have come across plenty of problems related to over feeding. Another benefit of this split feeding method is your fish can enjoy some kind of variety, my 4 streamlined Goldfish are all approaching 8 inches in length so the amounts of food are considerably larger than for baby fish & consist variously of Tetra Pond Sticks, Large Pro Gold sinking pellets & 4mm Koi Premium floating pellets as staple diet. John*<o)))< * On 22 March 2013 23:32, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > ** > > > > What Harry said. > > Also goldfish have over 1,000 years of domestication and it is fairly safe > to say have changed from their wild cousins. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 22, 2013 10:43 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > Nature is not a contained environment. It would help if the research > wasn't sponsored by the fish food industry. > > Once a day or once every other day is sufficient. Excess fish food is > algae food. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: "708804@...708804@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > Thanks. But Ive read the latest research says 5 times is good because in > nature they graze like this. I'm wondering how many Hikari pellets to feed > each time. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Efrain Montanez > Date: 03/23/13 04:08:55 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low > quantity of food... > > On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > > > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a > day. > How much total should I feed them in one day? > > Robert > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54553	From: 708804@gmail.com	Date: 3/22/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi John, Thanks for your insightful and thoughtful reply. I'm not new to goldfish but am vague on multiple daily feeding sessions. I just got back into fancy goldfish having just bought 1 small lionhead and 1 small fantail (both about 1.5 inches). They're currently in my 6 gallon quarantine tank, though I have a 55 gallon tank that needs cleaning and disinfecting. Ive been feeding high quality Hikari sinking pellets and am now going to start feeding prepared vegetables as well. I'm running 2 filters now, a modern dual bio-sponge air fed type and a HOB. I'm big on doing weekly 30% water changes and will transfer them to the big tank just as soon as I have cleaned it well enough. Your goldfish are huge, love that, would cost several hundred dollars each to buy that size here in Australia. Its that or wait years for them to grow that big. Though Ive been told if kept in a very healthy tank and fed like we discussed they can get bigger sooner. Thanks for your great advice. It sounds like the right thing to do. Robert -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 3/23/2013 1:14:11 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount Hi Robert, With respect to the other replies I don't think anyone has quite got what you are asking, my understanding is that you want to feed your fish the same amount that you would feed them once but broken up into multiple feeds so they are still getting the same amount each day but not all at once. I do the same with my fish & I think it is a good idea if you have the lifestyle to accommodate that regime. Even though Goldfish have been domesticated for a long time it surely is better to feed them in moderation rather than all at once, that would be like us having all of our daily intake of food in one sitting. What type[s] of food are you offering them? Pellets-sinking or floating are a better staple diet than flakes. Start by giving them just a tiny pinch & see how long it takes them to completely devour it all. Let's assume that it takes then 2 minutes to consume 10 small pellets [5 each] & using 2 minutes as a rough guide if you wanted to spread the feeds through 3 sittings you could have 4, 4 & 2. That would give a total of 10 pellets fed during the day the same as the one feed. This is just a suggestion, you can increase or decrease the amount according to the time taken to eat them all &/or any other factors. Obviously as they grow you will need to increase the amount pro-rata. Let us know what you think about this, can you also let us know what size tank you have? I'm guessing that you are new to Goldfish keeping? You must always bear in mind that what you put in at one end of the fish comes out at the other end as waste & that waste will immediately start to pollute the water so big filtration, large tanks & plenty of partial water changes-dilution is the key. If in doubt always under-feed, I have never heard of a Goldfish dying from under feeding but have come across plenty of problems related to over feeding. Another benefit of this split feeding method is your fish can enjoy some kind of variety, my 4 streamlined Goldfish are all approaching 8 inches in length so the amounts of food are considerably larger than for baby fish & consist variously of Tetra Pond Sticks, Large Pro Gold sinking pellets & 4mm Koi Premium floating pellets as staple diet. John*<o)))< * On 22 March 2013 23:32, <Deenerz@...> wrote: > ** > > > > What Harry said. > > Also goldfish have over 1,000 years of domestication and it is fairly safe > to say have changed from their wild cousins. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Mar 22, 2013 10:43 am > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > Nature is not a contained environment. It would help if the research > wasn't sponsored by the fish food industry. > > Once a day or once every other day is sufficient. Excess fish food is > algae food. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: "708804@...708804@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > Thanks. But Ive read the latest research says 5 times is good because in > nature they graze like this. I'm wondering how many Hikari pellets to feed > each time. > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Efrain Montanez > Date: 03/23/13 04:08:55 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Feeding Amount > > too much bro... ones a day and in cold weather just one's a week, very low > quantity of food... > > On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:03 AM, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > > > I have 2 one inch fancy gold fish and I want to feed them 3-5 times a > day. > How much total should I feed them in one day? > > Robert > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54554	From: Patrick	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "708804@..." wrote: > I'm not new to goldfish but > am vague on multiple daily feeding sessions. If I can add my two cents. One important fact to keep in mind are that goldfish are mainly herbivores (plant matter) and have a long gut to help squeeze out every bit of nutrition from plant matter which is relatively low in nutrients compared to protein based foods. So while goldfish are a grazing fish and are constantly picking at things all day, this assumes a low protein low nutrient nibbling of plant matter and algae. A lot of high protein foods coupled with their long guts can lead to issues. Most commercial fish foods are high in protein. Read the label and most have the first ingredient as "fish meal" or something like that. Even so called "goldfish" foods are often not much different than standard fish foods. So if you want to feed multiple times a day, as Ray mentioned, for one thing you don't want to feed the same amount you do once a day five times a day, but instead break up that one feeding into 3-5 fractions of what you might feed once a day. But given what I wrote above, you might also try mixing it up by sticking to once or two a day with standard fish food and any other feedings try things like peas, Spirulina based foods, or even just taking a piece of blanched kale, Zucchini, parsley, etc. and weigh them down in the tank with a clip and let the goldfish nip at them all day. Things like fresh veggies you can leave in for hours and they won't foul the tank. Good luck, Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54555	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Patrick, I think you have me confused with John, on this thread. It wasn't I who suggested feeding 5 times a day. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54556	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/23/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Ray, I hope I didn't infer that it is desirable to feed Goldfish 5 times a day per-se, I am simply saying that once a fixed amount of daily food is agreed upon this limited quantity could be fed in as many 'sittings' as you like. That said, I'm not wanting to give out false or misleading information here so please correct me if I'm out of line. John*<o)))<* On 23 March 2013 20:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Patrick, > > I think you have me confused with John, on this thread. It wasn't I who > suggested feeding 5 times a day. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54557	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: DIY foam & concrete background question

Hi, So I've set up my mind and this is what I want to do for my new tank's background: Styrofoam rocky panel, coated with 3 layers of concrete. My question is , would it be necessary to coat the concrete with a sealant? Is Epoxy used for this purpose? I have access to some of this company's products: www.hempel.com but honestly I have no clue what to use if I had to seal that concrete background. I'm searching fish forums for this matter, but they mention brands that are not available here in Syria (shipping is not an option in these times of war). Thanks for any help, Noura T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54558	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Hi Noura, Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would be what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert once it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with it. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54559	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should have it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have more important things on your minds; other than going boating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Noura, > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would be > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert once > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with it. > > Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54560	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Hello Ray, The tank is for a community of fish. I found many aquarists reporting that the pH settled after 100% water changes on a daily basis for several weeks (without the fish), and that's exactly what I intend to do. I'm in no rush at all, and I'll do it right. I'm asking about the epoxy (or any fish safe sealer) because some DIY pages mentioned that Algae Eaters could peel bits of concrete off, resulting in Styrofoam exposure. I don't know if that's possible with 3 layers of cement. So now I'd rather spray a mate sealer IF someone is able of explaining what I should look for on the bottle "what to avoid and what to seek". Thanks From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:02 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY foam & concrete background question Hi Noura, Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would be what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert once it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with it. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54561	From: Ray	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi John, In all fairness, and with my apologies for not taking more time when I responded, it was only Robert who specifically mentioned anything about feeding Goldfish 5 times a day -- both in his original post which started this thread, when asking if this was alright to do and then in his Message #54548 (March 22, 2013 @ 1:37 PM) -- just before Patrick responded -- when he (Robert)mentioned about reading about it. While I read all the posts, I was too hasty when saying you suggested feeding 5 times a day. You only suggested feeding 3 times a day, if I understood you correctly. As for my take on feeding Goldfish -- in the aquarium, at room temperature -- I see nothing wrong with this when the combined food quantity of a number of feedings is similar to a once-a-day feeding. In reality, it's probably more beneficial as it makes the food even more digestible when fed in smaller amounts. Otherwise, I see no benefit gained from feeding numerous times per day (in smaller quanities) vs feeding once per day (the entire amount for that day), especially when it comes to full grown Goldfish. While I did mention -- "in the aquarium," -- I did so to clarify what I believe Robert has in mind, as maintaining his Goldfish in an indoor tank, unless I'm mistaken. I noticed that Efrain warned about food not being easily digested in colder water, but I'm sure he must be under the impression that these are pond fish. While I'm still not entirely sure what Robert attempts to gain by multiple feedings throughout the day, unless it's planned that each feeding is more substantial, making the total food quantity for the day much more than they'd receive at one feeding for the day. Actually, many of the top fish breeders recommend feeding up to 5 times a day when possible, for maximum growth of juvenile fish in the minimum amount of time -- and even fry when they're first started out, and these 5 feedings are each as much as the fish will consume at each feeding. While this maybe thought of as artificially growing out fish extremely fast, it's really more in line with what young fish will be exposed to in the wild during breeding season, as everything is flourishing then. It's at this time, in the natural environment when fry are first starting to feed, that they'll be confronted by a copious amount of foods, including daphnia, cyclops, mosquito larvae and many other smaller foods which are flourishing at this time of year. Nature couldn't have picked better timing for the optimum growth of young fry and for last years' juveniles this year to make available the most food for growth -- and they have the opportunity to browse all day long, as much as they can eat. Yes, the physical shape of the fancier Goldfish is far removed than the original form found in nature, but their internal organs -- including their digestive system -- is still very similar as compared to wild fish. There isn't a large variation of these parts of the fish from the way they evolved, nor can there be. Except for mature Goldfish already reaching maximum size, multiple feedings are always a benefit when trying to grow fish up to that maximum size with the best quality foods that will still be within their dietary requirements. The aquarist needs to be prepared for more frequent water changes though, when more waste can be expected to be produced. Getting to "quality foods" and Goldfish's dietary requirements, it's been long established that these fish are omnivores (not herbivores), even though there's occasional controversy on that, and as such they may be fed foods with moderate proteinous content. In the wild, the two root stocks that Goldfish were derived from -- the European Carassius carassius and the Asian Carassius auratus -- not only feed on vegetative matter in the wild, but are opportunists when coming across any small insects, worms, other fishes' eggs, albeit not as a steady diet, and any other animal matter. I've caught more common Carp -- up to 25 pounds -- on garden worms than I've ever caught on dough-balls or corn. As for the Goldfish predecessors and their relatives feeding on fish roe (about as high in protein as can be found), this is exactly why many fish & wildlife departments see them as detrimental when found in the same lakes with gamefish as they raid the nests of these other fish in attempts to get their protein meals. Commercial Goldfish foods often contain about 44% protein as compared with about 47% protein in many tropical fish foods. To ensure a variety of foods and a more balanced diet for these omnivores, a spirulina-based food may be alternated in their feedings, but even shrimp or meal worms may be given occasionally as this the type of food they'd come across in the wild, to consume. Sinking pellets, crisps and any other sinking food is much better fed to Goldfish than a floating food -- especially when it comes to the fancy varieties -- to avoid them gulping air, which can cause them problems in swimming correctly. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I hope I didn't infer that it is desirable to feed Goldfish 5 times a day > per-se, I am simply saying that once a fixed amount of daily food is agreed > upon this limited quantity could be fed in as many 'sittings' as you like. > That said, I'm not wanting to give out false or misleading information here > so please correct me if I'm out of line. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 23 March 2013 20:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Patrick, > > > > I think you have me confused with John, on this thread. It wasn't I who > > suggested feeding 5 times a day. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54562	From: Poul Wehner	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

I did a styrofoam rock wall three ago and used a two part epoxy sealer purchased at a hobby store. I don't remember the brand name- it's a generic product. When it's hardened it's chemically inert. This was brushed on and I made sure to use multiple coatings on all six sides of the structure. From what I recall of my own investigations the sealer is required to prevent leaching of chemicals from the cement. I would not trust 3 weeks of water changes to render the ph potential of the cement to tolerable parameters for fish. The fish will find any small crevice in the structure so design to minimize this. Also you'll likely have to silicon this to the tank wall. It took me longer to find aquarium safe silicon locally than the epoxy. On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Ray, > > The tank is for a community of fish. I found many aquarists reporting that > the pH settled after 100% water changes on a daily basis for several weeks > (without the fish), and that's exactly what I intend to do. I'm in no rush > at all, and I'll do it right. > > I'm asking about the epoxy (or any fish safe sealer) because some DIY pages > mentioned that Algae Eaters could peel bits of concrete off, resulting in > Styrofoam exposure. I don't know if that's possible with 3 layers of > cement. > > So now I'd rather spray a mate sealer IF someone is able of explaining what > I should look for on the bottle "what to avoid and what to seek". > > Thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54563	From: Patrick	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" wrote: > Otherwise, I see no benefit gained from feeding numerous > times per day (in smaller quanities) vs feeding once per day > (the entire amount for that day), especially when it comes > to full grown Goldfish. The benefit is probably more towards the enjoyment of the fish keeper more than anything. :) > Getting to "quality foods" and Goldfish's dietary requirements, > it's been long established that these fish are omnivores (not > herbivores), even though there's occasional controversy on that, Yes, that is what I should have said. Alto to be completely accurate, most carp are really simply opportunistic feeders who will eat whatever they can find, animal, vegetable, and probably not mineral ;). So they naturally have a grazing nature to them and if you keep putting food in they will keep eating it, so it is important to both not overfeed and to not over due it with higher protein foods if one wants to break up their feeding over multiple times in the day. Human nature is that most people would tend to feed too much if they feed multiple times a day even if they try to feed less each time, over the course of the day it will probably end up being more food total that if they had fed once. Because of that, this is why I would recommend that if anyone wants to feed multiple times, employing algae flakes or blanched fresh veggies, and that sort of thing might be a bit safer. Patrick p.s sorry to confuse you with John earlier.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54564	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Patrick, Yes, agreed -- If you keep putting food in front of them -- Goldfish (or most any other fish) -- they'll continue eating it. Sure thing, fish don't know when to stop eating. Probably in part, because it's ingrained in them to seek out in nature, as much food as they can find since it may not always be available to them there. A question might be, when would it be considered "overeating?" With growing fish, you can always keep them well fed, even with noticably bulging stomachs, and it wouldn't be considered overeating as long as they put the food to good use in growth -- and there's a balance realized not to feed them excessively to the point they can get sick. While it's a well accepted method known among some of the best fish breeders, as recognized in rearing fish close to a natural way of having them feed when food is abundant, it's not widely known by other hobbyists in general. In growing fish, it's increasingly beneficial with each additional feeding up to 5 feedings per day, as in duplicating nature when food is plentiful. Beyond that, there's comparatively little extra benefit if given extra feedings during this same normal daytime period (of perhaps 9 or 10 hours). While it's kept well within the realm of overfeeding, there are some unscrupulous breeders who don't have their fishes' best interest in mind, and "force-feed" them by keeping their lights on 24 hours a day, feeding them as often as they can. These people are far removed from those caring for their animals and are only interested in making money. I would not hesitate to call this overfeeding, but extra feedings can normally be done during the day which will benefit a growing fish. BTW, I did mention alternating their feedings with spirolina based foods (vegetable matter); your algae-based foods should cover the balance of the commercial foods, and we could add any other types of fresh and sometimes blanched vegetable foods like butternut squash, Romaine lettuce or even cucumber -- just as we'd feed to Plecos and other fishes having similar requirements. Some fish will even go for the broccoli buds if blanched Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54565	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Thanks Poul. Gladly, I already have the fish-safe silicone on hand. Is it safe to say that any epoxy sealer can be used for fish? How did you decide that yours was okey for fish? Noura T. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Poul Wehner Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] DIY foam & concrete background question I did a styrofoam rock wall three ago and used a two part epoxy sealer purchased at a hobby store. I don't remember the brand name- it's a generic product. When it's hardened it's chemically inert. This was brushed on and I made sure to use multiple coatings on all six sides of the structure. From what I recall of my own investigations the sealer is required to prevent leaching of chemicals from the cement. I would not trust 3 weeks of water changes to render the ph potential of the cement to tolerable parameters for fish. The fish will find any small crevice in the structure so design to minimize this. Also you'll likely have to silicon this to the tank wall. It took me longer to find aquarium safe silicon locally than the epoxy. On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Noura <n-ocean@... <mailto:n-ocean%40scs-net.org> > wrote: > ** > > > Hello Ray, > > The tank is for a community of fish. I found many aquarists reporting that > the pH settled after 100% water changes on a daily basis for several weeks > (without the fish), and that's exactly what I intend to do. I'm in no rush > at all, and I'll do it right. > > I'm asking about the epoxy (or any fish safe sealer) because some DIY pages > mentioned that Algae Eaters could peel bits of concrete off, resulting in > Styrofoam exposure. I don't know if that's possible with 3 layers of > cement. > > So now I'd rather spray a mate sealer IF someone is able of explaining what > I should look for on the bottle "what to avoid and what to seek". > > Thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54566	From: Noura	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Thanks Al, I remember that thread and how you wanted those rocks so badlyJ. Is this "spar marine varnish" mate? I don't want a shiny coating to spoil all of my efforts towards building a naturally looking rock panel. Noura T. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should have it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have more important things on your minds; other than going boating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Noura, > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would be > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert once > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with it. > > Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54567	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/24/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Ray & Patrick, Thanks for your interesting responses & yes I can completely understand how even with the best will in the world overfeeding can happen simply by human nature so with that in mind we have to be very strict in our regime. To be honest I probably feed my crew up to 5 times a day depending on my schedule but each feed is small so they are constantly begging for more & I think this is a healthy situation. I have a large amount of plants in the tank [Vallis, Anacharis & Hornwort] but unfortunately they don't seem interested in nibbling any vegetable matter. They used to decimate my Vallis, probably out of mischief more than anything else when it was rather sparse but after Dawn gave me those great tips about trimming the roots back in 2011 I have not looked back & the growth is staggering. I have often tried in the past to get them to eat Romaine Lettuce or Cucumber but they are simply not interested. I did used to place large chunks of Cucumber in the tank when it was shared by a Pleco but I got rid of him to a friend's Tropical tank a couple of years ago. One of my Goldfish did take an interest in the Cucumber but only to the extent of sliding his belly along it & chasing off anyone [including the Pleco] that came near it but he was not interested in eating it, my fish are a bunch of comedians & this is what I have to put up with. To their credit they will greedily eat Broccoli or peas but I don't feed those often. John<o)))< On 24 March 2013 21:39, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Patrick, > > Yes, agreed -- If you keep putting food in front of them -- Goldfish (or > most any other fish) -- they'll continue eating it. Sure thing, fish don't > know when to stop eating. Probably in part, because it's ingrained in them > to seek out in nature, as much food as they can find since it may not > always > be available to them there. > > A question might be, when would it be considered "overeating?" With > growing fish, you can always keep them well fed, even with noticably > bulging > stomachs, and it wouldn't be considered overeating as long as they put the > food > to good use in growth -- and there's a balance realized not to feed them > excessively to the point they can get sick. > > While it's a well accepted method known among some of the best fish > breeders, as recognized in rearing fish close to a natural way of having > them feed > when food is abundant, it's not widely known by other hobbyists in > general. > In growing fish, it's increasingly beneficial with each additional feeding > up to 5 feedings per day, as in duplicating nature when food is plentiful. > Beyond that, there's comparatively little extra benefit if given extra > feedings during this same normal daytime period (of perhaps 9 or 10 > hours). > While it's kept well within the realm of overfeeding, there are some > unscrupulous breeders who don't have their fishes' best interest in mind, > and > "force-feed" them by keeping their lights on 24 hours a day, feeding them > as often as > they can. These people are far removed from those caring for their animals > and are only interested in making money. I would not hesitate to call this > overfeeding, but extra feedings can normally be done during the day which > will benefit a growing fish. > > BTW, I did mention alternating their feedings with spirolina based foods > (vegetable matter); your algae-based foods should cover the balance of the > commercial foods, and we could add any other types of fresh and sometimes > blanched vegetable foods like butternut squash, Romaine lettuce or even > cucumber > -- just as we'd feed to Plecos and other fishes having similar > requirements. > Some fish will even go for the broccoli buds if blanched > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54568	From: sevenspringss	Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi John, No matter what amount of food one makes these numerous feedings throughout the day, and the purpose for them including putting on faster growth, the fish shouldn't be fed any more than they can eat at any one time. We need to always be careful of how much to offer our fish at any one feeding. In your case, as you plan only to space out the normal amount of food they'd receive in one day, there's no danger of overfeeding, as they'll always have the capacity to eat more. I don't need to repeat this again, but most of us already know overfeeding (feeding more than the fish will consume at any one time), will only result in the excess food decaying on the substrate, polluting the water. While Goldfish can be offered lots of different vegetables, their usually just as happy feeding on tender, nutritioius aquatic plants like Anacharis and Duckweed. That your fish haven't taken a liking to very many plants is unusual for Goldfish as it's often the case that plants can't be kept in their aquariums or they'll be decimated. It's not always the case that Goldfish will be that ravenous, but often enough that they've developed a reputation for it -- and Koi can be twice as bad. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54569	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/25/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Hi Ray, I'm all to aware of the need to feed sparingly, 100 gallons may sound a lot to those who don't keep Goldfish but it is not very much when you have 4 large streamlined ones, even with a 25% water change every 2-3 days it is a struggle keeping the nitrate below 30. I agree that is unusual for them not to nibble at the plants, especially now I have them growing in such abundance but it definitely has a positive side & that is the tank looks so green & healthy with plenty of places for my fish to hide & explore. I have not tried Duckweed so that may be worth investigating, I know it is a nightmare to get rid of from a pond but I think in a controlled tank environment it should be easy-especially if the fish don't eat it. John<o)))< On 25 March 2013 08:40, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > No matter what amount of food one makes these numerous feedings throughout > the day, and the purpose for them including putting on faster growth, the > fish shouldn't be fed any more than they can eat at any one time. We need > to > always be careful of how much to offer our fish at any one feeding. In > your > case, as you plan only to space out the normal amount of food they'd > receive in one day, there's no danger of overfeeding, as they'll always > have the > capacity to eat more. I don't need to repeat this again, but most of us > already know overfeeding (feeding more than the fish will consume at any > one > time), will only result in the excess food decaying on the substrate, > polluting > the water. > > While Goldfish can be offered lots of different vegetables, their usually > just as happy feeding on tender, nutritioius aquatic plants like Anacharis > and Duckweed. That your fish haven't taken a liking to very many plants is > unusual for Goldfish as it's often the case that plants can't be kept in > their > aquariums or they'll be decimated. It's not always the case that Goldfish > will be that ravenous, but often enough that they've developed a > reputation > for it -- and Koi can be twice as bad. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54570	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Hi, turned out my silicone tube has expired. I couldn't find any fungicide free silicone yet, but I found a solvent-free and fungicide-free polyurethane adhesive (Akfix brand – Turkey). I grabbed it anyway because I may not find any of it a few days later because of the import difficulties. I searched in the internet and found that many fish pond owners use it for underwater repairs. The manufacturers (of all brands) do not clearly state the fish safety status of this product. I intend to use it to glue the foam background to the tank. Any advice? Noura From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Noura Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:14 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question Thanks Al, I remember that thread and how you wanted those rocks so badlyJ. Is this "spar marine varnish" mate? I don't want a shiny coating to spoil all of my efforts towards building a naturally looking rock panel. Noura T. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should have it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have more important things on your minds; other than going boating. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Noura, > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would be > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert once > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with it. > > Ray </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54571	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

oops sorry Noura... I forgot to get back to you. yes spar varnish is a bit shinny, but it's not as noticeable when it's under water.... and less so when it gets a bit of stuff growing on it... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hi, turned out my silicone tube has expired. I couldn't find any fungicide > free silicone yet, but I found a solvent-free and fungicide-free > polyurethane adhesive (Akfix brand – Turkey). I grabbed it anyway because I > may not find any of it a few days later because of the import difficulties. > > I searched in the internet and found that many fish pond owners use it for > underwater repairs. The manufacturers (of all brands) do not clearly state > the fish safety status of this product. > > I intend to use it to glue the foam background to the tank. > > Any advice? > > > > Noura > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > > > > > Thanks Al, I remember that thread and how you wanted those rocks so badlyJ. > Is this "spar marine varnish" mate? I don't want a shiny coating to spoil > all of my efforts towards building a naturally looking rock panel. > > Noura T. > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone > rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should have > it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have more > important things on your minds; other than going boating. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far > > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would > be > > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert > once > > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with > it. > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54572	From: Noura	Date: 3/26/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

Good to know I have a little more choices on hand. Thanks, Al. Any experience with the adhesive I mentioned below "Polyurethane"? From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question oops sorry Noura... I forgot to get back to you. yes spar varnish is a bit shinny, but it's not as noticeable when it's under water.... and less so when it gets a bit of stuff growing on it... :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Hi, turned out my silicone tube has expired. I couldn't find any fungicide > free silicone yet, but I found a solvent-free and fungicide-free > polyurethane adhesive (Akfix brand – Turkey). I grabbed it anyway because I > may not find any of it a few days later because of the import difficulties. > > I searched in the internet and found that many fish pond owners use it for > underwater repairs. The manufacturers (of all brands) do not clearly state > the fish safety status of this product. > > I intend to use it to glue the foam background to the tank. > > Any advice? > > > > Noura > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Noura > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:14 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > > > > > Thanks Al, I remember that thread and how you wanted those rocks so badlyJ. > Is this "spar marine varnish" mate? I don't want a shiny coating to spoil > all of my efforts towards building a naturally looking rock panel. > > Noura T. > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:25 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone > rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should have > it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have more > important things on your minds; other than going boating. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH far > > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would > be > > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert > once > > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with > it. > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54573	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: DIY foam & concrete background question

no; sorry. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > Good to know I have a little more choices on hand. Thanks, Al. > > Any experience with the adhesive I mentioned below "Polyurethane"? > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:44 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > > > > > oops sorry Noura... I forgot to get back to you. > yes spar varnish is a bit shinny, but it's not as noticeable when it's under > water.... and less so when it gets a bit of stuff growing on it... :-)>>> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "Noura" <n-ocean@> wrote: > > > > Hi, turned out my silicone tube has expired. I couldn't find any fungicide > > free silicone yet, but I found a solvent-free and fungicide-free > > polyurethane adhesive (Akfix brand – Turkey). I grabbed it anyway because > I > > may not find any of it a few days later because of the import > difficulties. > > > > I searched in the internet and found that many fish pond owners use it for > > underwater repairs. The manufacturers (of all brands) do not clearly state > > the fish safety status of this product. > > > > I intend to use it to glue the foam background to the tank. > > > > Any advice? > > > > > > > > Noura > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Noura > > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:14 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Al, I remember that thread and how you wanted those rocks so > badlyJ. > > Is this "spar marine varnish" mate? I don't want a shiny coating to spoil > > all of my efforts towards building a naturally looking rock panel. > > > > Noura T. > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:25 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: DIY foam & concrete background question > > > > hmmm. could you get "spar marine varnish?" I've used it to coat limestone > > rocks that I've wanted to use....places that have boat supplies should > have > > it...but as you say, it may be tough to find... I'm sure you folks have > more > > important things on your minds; other than going boating. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Noura, > > > > > > Any concrete exposed to water will leach out its lime, raising the pH > far > > > above even what your Malawi Cichlids prefer. I don't know if Epoxy would > > be > > > what is used to seal this against leaching, although it should be inert > > once > > > it sets up and hardens. Not knowing epoxy's properties for certain, I'm > > > unable to recommend it. Maybe someone else here has had experience with > > it. > > > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54574	From: Robert	Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Snail keeping

I have one medium apple snail in a 10 litre tank running an internal powered filter and 2 bio sponge filters. The powered filter flow switch is missing so I cant adjust the flow speed. So the water is flowing fast in the tank. Anyone know how bad this might be for the snails overall well-being? I know its a tiny tank but have had success keeping snails in this heavily filtered tank. Please, no snide remarks if you find snails pesky. Robert

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping

Hi Robert, I don't know anything about snails but if you can position your power filter so that the outlet is hitting the edge of the tank rather than firing directly into the middle of your tank then that should impede the flow quite a lot. John*<o)))<* On 29 March 2013 21:32, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have one medium apple snail in a 10 litre tank running an internal > powered filter and 2 bio sponge filters. The powered filter flow switch is > missing so I cant adjust the flow speed. So the water is flowing fast in > the tank. Anyone know how bad this might be for the snails overall > well-being? I know its a tiny tank but have had success keeping snails in > this heavily filtered tank. Please, no snide remarks if you find snails > pesky. > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54576	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: A shell game.

Hi all. My pastor just came back from a holiday in Myrtle beach, and he bought a package of shells for my tanks. I think it's nice that he thought of me, but I believe that I've read that's a no no, due to them messing up the P.H. as they decay. Am I right in thinking that? If so, then I can coat a few in varnish first... that way I can say I used them. :-)>>> Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54577	From: Robert	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping

Thanks for the advice John. I didn't know that. Robert -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 3/30/2013 10:00:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snail keeping Hi Robert, I don't know anything about snails but if you can position your power filter so that the outlet is hitting the edge of the tank rather than firing directly into the middle of your tank then that should impede the flow quite a lot. John*<o)))<* On 29 March 2013 21:32, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have one medium apple snail in a 10 litre tank running an internal > powered filter and 2 bio sponge filters. The powered filter flow switch is > missing so I cant adjust the flow speed. So the water is flowing fast in > the tank. Anyone know how bad this might be for the snails overall > well-being? I know its a tiny tank but have had success keeping snails in > this heavily filtered tank. Please, no snide remarks if you find snails > pesky. > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54578	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.

Hi Al, Yes, I think it is dangerous using anything that is naturally harvested because there could be something nasty perhaps bacteria or spores etc even harsh washing would not get rid of. You are also going to cause problems with your pH because shells are calcium, however I think coating them in inert varnish woudl be fine as long as you are certain the varnish is completely harmless to your system. John<o)))< On 30 March 2013 20:15, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi all. > > My pastor just came back from a holiday in Myrtle beach, and he bought a > package of shells for my tanks. > I think it's nice that he thought of me, but I believe that I've read > that's a no no, due to them messing up the P.H. as they decay. > Am I right in thinking that? If so, then I can coat a few in varnish > first... that way I can say I used them. :-)>>> > > Thanks. > > Al. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54579	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.

Thanks John, I thought the calcium may be a problem. I'll coat a few with a few coats of spar varnish; I've had some rocks that I coated with it in my tanks, for quite a while... because they are limestone. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Yes, I think it is dangerous using anything that is naturally harvested > because there could be something nasty perhaps bacteria or spores etc even > harsh washing would not get rid of. You are also going to cause problems > with your pH because shells are calcium, however I think coating them in > inert varnish woudl be fine as long as you are certain the varnish is > completely harmless to your system. > > John<o)))< > > > On 30 March 2013 20:15, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > My pastor just came back from a holiday in Myrtle beach, and he bought a > > package of shells for my tanks. > > I think it's nice that he thought of me, but I believe that I've read > > that's a no no, due to them messing up the P.H. as they decay. > > Am I right in thinking that? If so, then I can coat a few in varnish > > first... that way I can say I used them. :-)>>> > > > > Thanks. > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54580	From: Al Keep	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: The finned crusaders.

Hi all. I picked up two "batman platies" today at my, not so l.f.s. Nice looking fish; instead of a mickey mouse shape on their tails, it's kind of a batman head shape. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54581	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping

Apple snails are pretty sturdy and can usually handle a bit of a higher flow rate. Watch the snail for a while when it's active in the tank and where it hangs out the most, does it appear to be avoiding where the water flows back into the tank? When it's moving around is the snail shell being pushed around by the water flow? Is the food settling anywhere in the tank so the snail gets plenty of opportunity to feed easily? If you answered no to either of the first 2 questions and yes to the last one, then you should be ok. I won't make any snide remarks or lecture you about the tank size, however, I do feel it important to make a note that true apple snails get huge. Unlike fish they don't experience growth stunting from keeping them in small tanks, they just die instead. A full grown apple snail is as big as a baseball (yes, I've seen them, we used to keep them at the store in the ponds before they were banned) I just want you to be prepared for that if you have a true apple snail. Often apple snails are confused with mystery snails and mismarked in pet stores and sometimes at wholesaler's too. I'm not fond of ram's horn or trumpet snails, but I love apples, mystery's, and trap door snails. Awesome animals and well worth keeping a tank just for one of them. :-) They're great entertainment. I had a gold mystery snail yrs ago that would climb around on my hand and arm whenever I did maintenance in the tank. Enjoy your snail! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > > I have one medium apple snail in a 10 litre tank running an internal powered filter and 2 bio sponge filters. The powered filter flow switch is missing so I cant adjust the flow speed. So the water is flowing fast in the tank. Anyone know how bad this might be for the snails overall well-being? I know its a tiny tank but have had success keeping snails in this heavily filtered tank. Please, no snide remarks if you find snails pesky. > Robert >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54582	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: Re: A shell game.

Hi Al! How nice of your pastor to think of you like that. :-) I think I would be a little concerned using varnish on anything going into a fish tank. Initially they may be safe, but what about once they have been scrubbed/scraped up a bit from cleaning? Disturbing the varnish may not be such a safe thing, and I'm thinking along the lines of chemical reactions and gases that can be emitted once something like a varnish surface seal is broken/damaged. Also any fish such as plecos that will scrape on it as they feed from it... Also, since I don't know what kind of shells these are, I'll just make mention... I would avoid any spiral shaped shells. If you've ever seen a broken one on the beach anywhere, or even from the bags of them you can find at craft stores, you can see how deep the spiral runs. Trying to seal that with varnish effectively would be quite difficult, but you'd have no way to know for sure if you reached the depths of the shell or not. There are various aquarium sealants out there on the market and I am pretty sure 2 part epoxy is also safe but will have to double check on that one before I suggest it. Or, what about a thin glaze of aquarium silicone? Then if/when you ever decide to remove the shells from the tank you can easily peel it off to restore them to their natural form. It would be a little messy to do, but not any worse than varnish, and at least you'd know for sure it's safe. Watch your pH carefully after you put this stuff in the tank just to be sure your fix it methods are working without any adverse side effects. Post us some photos when your done if you can please? I would love to see how it turns out. :-) Have fun with your shells! Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > > My pastor just came back from a holiday in Myrtle beach, and he bought a package of shells for my tanks. > I think it's nice that he thought of me, but I believe that I've read that's a no no, due to them messing up the P.H. as they decay. > Am I right in thinking that? If so, then I can coat a few in varnish first... that way I can say I used them. :-)>>> > > Thanks. > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54583	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: homemade replacement filters

A while back, someone was talking about making your own replacement filters. Could you refresh my memory on how to do that & what to use? Do I also need to get charcoal? The commercial replacement filters have the charcoal sewn in. I found nothing in the files about making filters. If it matters, I have an Aqueon Power Filter. Thanks for the help. Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54584	From: Patrick	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "daydreamdesign13" wrote: > Do I also need to get charcoal? The commercial replacement filters > have the charcoal sewn in. I found nothing in the files about making > filters. If it matters, I have an Aqueon Power Filter. Hi Deb, I personally don't use any activated carbon in my tanks. Fortunately my well water is good water to begin with. But carbon can easily be replaced simply by keeping up regular partial water changes. Usually a lot cheaper in the long run. But those proprietary filter cartridges have so little carbon in them anyway, they are basically useless as far as being a chemical filter. What little carbon is in them is probably used up in the first day (or less) of use. So my advice is try simply rinsing the cartridges out under the tap, maybe with hotter water to loosen stuff up. Many of them under enough water pressure clean up very nicely and that cartridge that you used to replace ever two weeks or so might not last a couple months and that three pack might get you through half a year or more. And as I said, if you are not already doing regular partial water changes, step those up and you won't miss having charcoal in the tank, especially the little bit those cartridges normally hold. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54585	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Patrick, Filter media should NEVER be rinsed under tap water, unless the "tap water" is from an unchlorinated private well. Chlorine and chloramine that water suppliers add to their water will kill the nitrifying bacteria that has taken so long to get established in cycling the tank. Hot water too, will decimate these bacteria, resulting in having to cycle the tank all over again to repopulate the filter with nitrobacters. Please don't clean you filter media in any other water than old aquarium water, to save all the nitrifying bacteria for continuing the cycle, and please don't recommend this to any other member on here. Without the filter no longer having bacteria to continue the nitrogen cycle, the fishes may suffer in being stressed by ammonia build up and may soon afterwards die from the toxic effects of these organic wastes. Many of us have stressed the importance of rinsing filter media only with old aquarium water on here; I'm surprised you've missed this important point after so many years of us stating this. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54586	From: hnorton74	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Snail keeping

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <708804@...> wrote: > > I have one medium apple snail in a 10 litre tank running an internal powered filter and 2 bio sponge filters. The powered filter flow switch is missing so I cant adjust the flow speed. So the water is flowing fast in the tank. Anyone know how bad this might be for the snails overall well-being? I know its a tiny tank but have had success keeping snails in this heavily filtered tank. Please, no snide remarks if you find snails pesky. > Robert > I lost two of my apple snails because I didn't put my sponge on the end of the intake tube and they were stuck on the intake filter so please take a piece of bacteria foam to protect them and other slower moving fined fish. I lost two snails and a lovely Beta in a 20 gallon tank

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54587	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54588	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

This is just not the balance of the entire system. The entire tank is covered with the "bacteria to continue the nitrogen cycle". The single filter pad is extremely small relative to the surface area of the walls, gravel, and all the elements in the tank. A new filter pad will recover quickly. Cleaning an old pad just removes the trash from the days of use. Shake out the tap water and use it again. Charles H >Filter media should NEVER be rinsed under tap water, unless the "tap water" >is from an unchlorinated private well. Chlorine and chloramine that water >suppliers add to their water will kill the nitrifying bacteria that has >taken so long to get established in cycling the tank. Hot water too, will >decimate these bacteria, resulting in having to >cycle the tank all over again to >repopulate the filter with nitrobacters. Please don't clean you filter >media in any other water than old aquarium water, to save all the nitrifying >bacteria for continuing the cycle, and please >don't recommend this to any other >member on here. > >Without the filter no longer having bacteria to continue the nitrogen >cycle, the fishes may suffer in being stressed >by ammonia build up and may soon >afterwards die from the toxic effects of these organic wastes. Many of us >have stressed the importance of rinsing filter media only with old aquarium >water on here; I'm surprised you've missed this important point after so many >years of us stating this. > >Ray. </HTML> > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ¥Ø` .½½.><((((†>. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½><((((†> ½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..><((((†> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject >(was re: old subject)" <- ><†((((><. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½<†((((><½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..<†((((>< ¥Ø` .½½. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 >posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post >replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54589	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

>I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that. No, there is no reason to do that. The small amount of substantial beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces of your tank will grow quickly on the surface of your filter. Washing your filter removes a lot of unwanted trash. Do it often and change your water, as much as often as you can! Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54590	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

>I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that. No continue. Your use saves money and is of no cost to the system. Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54591	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

I just use tank water to vigorously slosh the unwanted trash from the media. Best of both worlds. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Harrison Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 11:57 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: homemade replacement filters >I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that. No, there is no reason to do that. The small amount of substantial beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces of your tank will grow quickly on the surface of your filter. Washing your filter removes a lot of unwanted trash. Do it often and change your water, as much as often as you can! Charles H [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54592	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hello Charles, I'm not refuting your recommendation to rinse filter media under tap water, but I have a few questions as this sometimes results in the ammonia increasing for a while afterwards until the media gets established again with nitrobacter populations. Of course, much of this also depends on the bioload level of the tank, but then too, any material I've read on the subject from recognized sources advise rinsing the media in the tank water that's being discarded at the time of the partial water change. While many are aware that all inside surfaces of the tank contain these needed nitrobacters, aren't the majority of their populations inhabiting the filter media where conditions (food-&-oxygen-rich water constantly flowing past them) much more to their liking in promoting their multiplication, where they exist (despite the comparatively small size of the media vs the other inside surfaces)? If the inside surfaces contain large enough nitrifying bacteria populations to continue a cycle, why does a filter still need biological filtration media as opposed to just a mechanical media? If there's not enough chlorine or chloramine in tap water to kill these bacteria, would it not at least decimate them to much lower numbers, and would not hot water decimate many more? If there is not a long enough exposure to chlorine in the tap water to kill nitrobacters, would the results of hot water possibly killing a good portion of them off necessitate rebuilding the cycle again to properly convert the more toxic organic wastes to nitrate? It would just appear that Donna's (djransome) approach to cleaning the media would present no such risks, if risks are present otherwise, but I'd gratefully enjoy your further clarification of this point. BTW, I appreciate the fine job you're doing as AKA BOT Chairman so far this year. Keep up the good work! Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54593	From: Patrick	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Patrick, > > Filter media should NEVER be rinsed under tap water, unless > the "tap water" is from an unchlorinated private well. > Chlorine and chloramine that water suppliers add to their water > will kill the nitrifying bacteria that has taken so long to get > established in cycling the tank. Hot water too, will decimate > these bacteria, resulting in having to cycle the tank all over > again to repopulate the filter with nitrobacters. As Charles pointed out, in an established tank, all the surfaces are well established with the beneficial bacteria so it is usually not a problem. But the big thing you are missing in this particular instance is that she is using a filter with a replaceable cartridge. So every couple of weeks or so, the cartridge is pulled out, thrown away, and then a brand new cartridge is put in its place. Are you going to argue that all filter systems with replaceable cartridges result in having to restart the cycle every the time owner changes the cartridge? If so, we should all be lobbying new fish keepers to never use any of those filter systems, right? ;) Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54594	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hi all. While I do believe that most people could get away with rinsing their media in tap water; why would one want to do that, when we know that any killing off, of any "good critters" in the tank, is not the ideal thing to be doing? Fish can be delicate; so I think we should give them every advantage, when we stick them in boxes. :-)>>> I squeeze out my sponge every week,....in tank water... and replace it once a month or so; they're about $2.50. I do think you could get away with it though, because for convenience sake, I rinse my plants and big fake caves off in the tub every week. Committing to the time it takes, to do the regular cleaning and water changing, I think is the biggest key to keeping any pet successfully. I keep track of the maintenance that I've done, on the calendar, and don't let a tank get past, one day late. I find I need about an hour of work per week, for every 20 gallons or so, of tank; but I'm not getting any younger. :-)>>> and I do it old school, with buckets. Uh oh; that may be 3 or 4 cents worth. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I just use tank water to vigorously slosh the unwanted trash from the media. > Best of both worlds. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Charles Harrison > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: homemade replacement filters > > > > > > >I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that. > > No, there is no reason to do that. The small amount of substantial > beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces of your tank will grow > quickly on the surface of your filter. Washing your filter removes a > lot of unwanted trash. Do it often and change your water, as much as > often as you can! > > Charles H > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54595	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hi Patrick, You may have seen that I posed several questions to Charles on this, to which I have not yet seen his response. Until then, I'll reserve my take on whether filter media should or should not be rinsed under hot, chlorine injected tap water. I'm almost sure that hot water, if not chlorine, would kill off much of the nitrifying bacteria -- but of course, this too is due in part by how hot the water actually is. Also, a much decimated population of nitrobacters may or may not affect the nitrogenous waste levels to any toxic levels, but this is also due large in part to the bioload level and the amount of organic wastes that are produced by it. It goes without saying, that a low stocking level wouldn't adversely affect the parameters nearly as much, if the cycle were interrupted, as would a tank that's fully stocked to its limit. For one thing, we're dealing with a lot of variables here -- even including just how long the media is held under chlorinated, hot water.. As for Deb's replaceable filter media cartridges, I truly have to wonder where you've been -- and this is not meant as a put down. Perhaps you just don't always read the posts on here that don't pertain to your situations, but time and time again, many of us have stated that "replaceable" filter cartridges are NOT to be replaced, except when they're worn out beyond further use. Surely, you must have seen us recommend this. When I said that filter media should be rinsed in old aquarium water, I also had these cartridges in mind as a filter media to be treated in this manner. For one thing, it's a big waste of money to replace these cartridges every couple of weeks or so -- although I don't recall her saying she does. Secondly, each time the "used" filter cartridge is discarded for a new one, all of the nitrifying bacteria on the media is discarded with it, with the end result of possibly causing a mini-cycle since the new cartridge now needs to become established with new nitrobacter populations. Again, the chance of a mini-cycle is in part very dependent upon the bioload level, and may not necessarily reach dangerous proportions in a moderately stocked tank - since there's still bacteria on every other surface, albeit not in hugh numbers, but why risk it? It's generally recommended that when replacing the filter media, that a portion of the old media be retained and added to the new media to help jump start the bacteria populations. This goes also for cartridges with which just often have the carbon (if its felt that it's needed) replaced by slitting the top of it open -- buying the carbon in bulk -- and adding new. This would be the main reason why the newer hobbyists would replace the cartridges -- to have renewed carbon; the outer surface can just be rinsed off in old water, many, many times. As we know though, carbon is not really needed anyway and all too soon -- with no way of actually being made aware of to us -- it loses its effectiveness. It can act as another surface for bacteria to populate though. The manufacturers would have us all use it and replace it every week though, if they thought we all fall for this ruse. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54596	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hi Everyone, I don't want to ruffle any feathers [or perhaps scales??] here but I think the original poster, Deb may be getting confused by the experts apparently contradictory comments & sugegstions. We all agree that the good bugs that keep our tanks eco system running should be preserved whenever possible but I think I can see both sides of the argument here & they are both valid. Patrick & Charles are saying that it is ok to rinse away the small amount of good bugs on a replceable carbon pad. Assuming the tank is large & the filtration area also large then a small carbon pad is nothing compared to the tank it is in but if we are talking about smaller tanks with consequently smaller filters then the proportional amount of surface area on a small pad is then far greater & so destroying the beneficial bacteria on there could be risking a bacterial bloom or worse as Ray suggested. Personally I don't like the idea of disposable pads purely because they are geatred to the beginner & smaller tanks which need established colonies of good bugs & in my opinion thye are counter productive. I also have a problem with the vast amount of filter systems that include carbon as a default part of the set-up when [again in my opinion] that area would be far better used up with some inert sponge or polyester foam/floss because carbon does not hold a great deal of good bacteria, it needs replacing often or else it can leech the toxins back into the tank & you don't really need carbon in your filter unless you have a very heavy bio load or need to remove medications or other toxins from the water. The bottom line is that there are probably several hundred people reading these posts & if the experts are seeming to disagree [which they are not] then the newbies will not only get confused but may go elsewhere & we all know how hit & miss the aquatic info is on the net so having a great source of info like ours is quite a precious thing. The only time that I rinse filter material under tap water is when I am putting in new polyester foam/polyfilter pads as a water polishing stage or changing my filter socks but then it is just to make sure there is no loose fibres or dust on them. Finally I would say that almost all of the manufacturer's claims about replacement filtration is based a lot more on profit margins than tank eco system longevity. A couple of examples-the first filter I bought about 9 years ago was a Fluval 3 Plus & although I no longer use it regularly it is still in fine fettle & is used occasionally. They recommend changint the sponges in there at [I think] 3 month periods but htey are very good material & I still have the original pads although they are a little discoloured now. The only thing I did swap out regularly was the thin strip of polyester floss between the sponges for water polishing but that stuff is dirt cheap from any uphostery suppliers. As another example, I bought an Eheim 2026 canister about 6 or 7 years ago & it's still in use as part of a sub system on my 100 gallon & a most excellent machine it is too! However, they recommended changing the ceramic media in each tray alternately over a 6 month period which is quite ludicrous because that stuff is virtually indestructible & will last forever. There is also a thick blue sponge pad in the lower basket that they recommend replacing the same time & I still have the original one & it is completely intact. The supplied carbon pads supplied with both devices has never been used! John On 3 April 2013 23:03, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Patrick, > > You may have seen that I posed several questions to Charles on this, to > which I have not yet seen his response. Until then, I'll reserve my take > on > whether filter media should or should not be rinsed under hot, chlorine > injected tap water. I'm almost sure that hot water, if not chlorine, would > kill > off much of the nitrifying bacteria -- but of course, this too is due in > part > by how hot the water actually is. Also, a much decimated population of > nitrobacters may or may not affect the nitrogenous waste levels to any > toxic > levels, but this is also due large in part to the bioload level and the > amount > of organic wastes that are produced by it. It goes without saying, that a > low stocking level wouldn't adversely affect the parameters nearly as > much, > if the cycle were interrupted, as would a tank that's fully stocked to its > limit. For one thing, we're dealing with a lot of variables here -- even > including just how long the media is held under chlorinated, hot water.. > > As for Deb's replaceable filter media cartridges, I truly have to wonder > where you've been -- and this is not meant as a put down. Perhaps you just > don't always read the posts on here that don't pertain to your situations, > but > time and time again, many of us have stated that "replaceable" filter > cartridges are NOT to be replaced, except when they're worn out beyond > further > use. Surely, you must have seen us recommend this. When I said that filter > media should be rinsed in old aquarium water, I also had these cartridges > in > mind as a filter media to be treated in this manner. For one thing, it's a > big waste of money to replace these cartridges every couple of weeks or so > -- although I don't recall her saying she does. Secondly, each time the > "used" filter cartridge is discarded for a new one, all of the nitrifying > bacteria on the media is discarded with it, with the end result of > possibly > causing a mini-cycle since the new cartridge now needs to become > established with > new nitrobacter populations. Again, the chance of a mini-cycle is in part > very dependent upon the bioload level, and may not necessarily reach > dangerous proportions in a moderately stocked tank - since there's still > bacteria > on every other surface, albeit not in hugh numbers, but why risk it? > > It's generally recommended that when replacing the filter media, that a > portion of the old media be retained and added to the new media to help > jump > start the bacteria populations. This goes also for cartridges with which > just > often have the carbon (if its felt that it's needed) replaced by slitting > the top of it open -- buying the carbon in bulk -- and adding new. This > would be the main reason why the newer hobbyists would replace the > cartridges -- > to have renewed carbon; the outer surface can just be rinsed off in old > water, many, many times. As we know though, carbon is not really needed > anyway > and all too soon -- with no way of actually being made aware of to us -- > it > loses its effectiveness. It can act as another surface for bacteria to > populate though. The manufacturers would have us all use it and replace it > every week though, if they thought we all fall for this ruse. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54597	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

I have not replaced my sponges yet and I started my tank in 2005. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: homemade replacement filters Hi all. While I do believe that most people could get away with rinsing their media in tap water; why would one want to do that, when we know that any killing off, of any "good critters" in the tank, is not the ideal thing to be doing? Fish can be delicate; so I think we should give them every advantage, when we stick them in boxes. :-)>>> I squeeze out my sponge every week,....in tank water... and replace it once a month or so; they're about $2.50. I do think you could get away with it though, because for convenience sake, I rinse my plants and big fake caves off in the tub every week. Committing to the time it takes, to do the regular cleaning and water changing, I think is the biggest key to keeping any pet successfully. I keep track of the maintenance that I've done, on the calendar, and don't let a tank get past, one day late. I find I need about an hour of work per week, for every 20 gallons or so, of tank; but I'm not getting any younger. :-)>>> and I do it old school, with buckets. Uh oh; that may be 3 or 4 cents worth. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > I just use tank water to vigorously slosh the unwanted trash from the media. > Best of both worlds. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Charles Harrison > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 11:57 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: homemade replacement filters > > > > > > >I had been rinsing it in tap water so I guess I'll stop doing that. > > No, there is no reason to do that. The small amount of substantial > beneficial bacteria live on all the surfaces of your tank will grow > quickly on the surface of your filter. Washing your filter removes a > lot of unwanted trash. Do it often and change your water, as much as > often as you can! > > Charles H > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54598	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

I also rarely replace my cartridges they too can be rinsed vigorously in tank water. And my HOB or power filters have either a sponge plus media (no cartridge) or a cartridge plus a media grid. I do like the design of these because when you DO have to replace the cartridge, you always have the media grid full of bacteria. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: homemade replacement filters --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Patrick, > > Filter media should NEVER be rinsed under tap water, unless > the "tap water" is from an unchlorinated private well. > Chlorine and chloramine that water suppliers add to their water > will kill the nitrifying bacteria that has taken so long to get > established in cycling the tank. Hot water too, will decimate > these bacteria, resulting in having to cycle the tank all over > again to repopulate the filter with nitrobacters. As Charles pointed out, in an established tank, all the surfaces are well established with the beneficial bacteria so it is usually not a problem. But the big thing you are missing in this particular instance is that she is using a filter with a replaceable cartridge. So every couple of weeks or so, the cartridge is pulled out, thrown away, and then a brand new cartridge is put in its place. Are you going to argue that all filter systems with replaceable cartridges result in having to restart the cycle every the time owner changes the cartridge? If so, we should all be lobbying new fish keepers to never use any of those filter systems, right? ;) Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54599	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

>I'm not refuting your recommendation to rinse filter media under tap water, >but I have a few questions as this sometimes results in the ammonia >increasing for a while afterwards until the media gets established again with >nitrobacter populations. Of course, much of this also depends on the bioload >level of the tank, but then too, any material I've read on the subject from >recognized sources advise rinsing the media in the tank water that's being >discarded at the time of the partial water change. I would suggest one wipe their fingers along the inside of an active aquarium. The walls are slick with a slime of life. That is the source of bacteria for any new filter pad. An alternative to rinsing the filter pad is simply replacing it with new. There isn't much nitrobacters on those surfaces. I think that is the normal aquarists approach from instructions from most LFS so they may sell more consumables. I think this is the pivot point. - Either use new or wash the old and go on. One uses a biological filtration media and a seeming large surface area to convert the various Nitrogen compounds to Nitrates then less harmful to the animals in the tank. Water changes are now much more important to remove the Nitrogen compounds. As I see it, the choice is NEW or wash the OLD. Irrespective of the contents of the old filter media. Flush the toilet. Vacuum the septic tank. Charles H >While many are aware that all inside surfaces of the tank contain these >needed nitrobacters, aren't the majority of their populations inhabiting the >filter media where conditions (food-&-oxygen-rich water constantly flowing >past them) much more to their liking in promoting their multiplication, where >they exist (despite the comparatively small size of the media vs the other >inside surfaces)? > >If the inside surfaces contain large enough nitrifying bacteria populations >to continue a cycle, why does a filter still need biological filtration >media as opposed to just a mechanical media? > >If there's not enough chlorine or chloramine in tap water to kill these >bacteria, would it not at least decimate them to much lower numbers, and would >not hot water decimate many more? > >If there is not a long enough exposure to chlorine in the tap water to kill >nitrobacters, would the results of hot water possibly killing a good >portion of them off necessitate rebuilding the cycle again to >properly convert the >more toxic organic wastes to nitrate? > >It would just appear that Donna's (djransome) approach to cleaning the >media would present no such risks, if risks are present otherwise, but I'd >gratefully enjoy your further clarification of this point. BTW, I >appreciate the >fine job you're doing as AKA BOT Chairman so far this year. Keep up the >good work! > >Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54600	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

John, How often do you change how much water? Charles H > > I don't want to ruffle any feathers [or perhaps scales??] here but I >think the original poster, Deb may be getting confused by the experts >apparently contradictory comments & sugegstions. > >We all agree that the good bugs that keep our tanks eco system running >should be preserved whenever possible but I think I can see both sides of >the argument here & they are both valid. Patrick & Charles are saying that >it is ok to rinse away the small amount of good bugs on a replceable carbon >pad. Assuming the tank is large & the filtration area also large then a >small carbon pad is nothing compared to the tank it is in but if we are >talking about smaller tanks with consequently smaller filters then the >proportional amount of surface area on a small pad is then far greater & so >destroying the beneficial bacteria on there could be risking a bacterial >bloom or worse as Ray suggested. > >Personally I don't like the idea of disposable pads purely because they are >geatred to the beginner & smaller tanks which need established colonies of >good bugs & in my opinion thye are counter productive. I also have a >problem with the vast amount of filter systems that include carbon as a >default part of the set-up when [again in my opinion] that area would be >far better used up with some inert sponge or polyester foam/floss because >carbon does not hold a great deal of good bacteria, it needs replacing >often or else it can leech the toxins back into the tank & you don't really >need carbon in your filter unless you have a very heavy bio load or need to >remove medications or other toxins from the water. > >The bottom line is that there are probably several hundred people reading >these posts & if the experts are seeming to disagree [which they are not] >then the newbies will not only get confused but may go elsewhere & we all >know how hit & miss the aquatic info is on the net so having a great source >of info like ours is quite a precious thing. > >The only time that I rinse filter material under tap water is when I am >putting in new polyester foam/polyfilter pads as a water polishing stage or >changing my filter socks but then it is just to make sure there is no loose >fibres or dust on them. > >Finally I would say that almost all of the manufacturer's claims about >replacement filtration is based a lot more on profit margins than tank eco >system longevity. A couple of examples-the first filter I bought about 9 >years ago was a Fluval 3 Plus & although I no longer use it regularly it is >still in fine fettle & is used occasionally. They recommend changint the >sponges in there at [I think] 3 month periods but htey are very good >material & I still have the original pads although they are a little >discoloured now. The only thing I did swap out regularly was the thin strip >of polyester floss between the sponges for water polishing but that stuff >is dirt cheap from any uphostery suppliers. As another example, I bought an >Eheim 2026 canister about 6 or 7 years ago & it's still in use as part of a >sub system on my 100 gallon & a most excellent machine it is too! However, >they recommended changing the ceramic media in each tray alternately over a >6 month period which is quite ludicrous because that stuff is virtually >indestructible & will last forever. There is also a thick blue sponge pad >in the lower basket that they recommend replacing the same time & I still >have the original one & it is completely intact. The supplied carbon pads >supplied with both devices has never been used! > > John > > >On 3 April 2013 23:03, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi Patrick, >> >> You may have seen that I posed several questions to Charles on this, to >> which I have not yet seen his response. Until then, I'll reserve my take > on

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54601	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hi Charles, I change 25 gallons every 2 days. John*<o)))<* On 4 April 2013 04:38, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > How often do you change how much water? > > Charles H > > > > > I don't want to ruffle any feathers [or perhaps scales??] here but I > >think the original poster, Deb may be getting confused by the experts > >apparently contradictory comments & sugegstions. > > > >We all agree that the good bugs that keep our tanks eco system running > >should be preserved whenever possible but I think I can see both sides of > >the argument here & they are both valid. Patrick & Charles are saying that > >it is ok to rinse away the small amount of good bugs on a replceable > carbon > >pad. Assuming the tank is large & the filtration area also large then a > >small carbon pad is nothing compared to the tank it is in but if we are > >talking about smaller tanks with consequently smaller filters then the > >proportional amount of surface area on a small pad is then far greater & > so > >destroying the beneficial bacteria on there could be risking a bacterial > >bloom or worse as Ray suggested. > > > >Personally I don't like the idea of disposable pads purely because they > are > >geatred to the beginner & smaller tanks which need established colonies of > >good bugs & in my opinion thye are counter productive. I also have a > >problem with the vast amount of filter systems that include carbon as a > >default part of the set-up when [again in my opinion] that area would be > >far better used up with some inert sponge or polyester foam/floss because > >carbon does not hold a great deal of good bacteria, it needs replacing > >often or else it can leech the toxins back into the tank & you don't > really > >need carbon in your filter unless you have a very heavy bio load or need > to > >remove medications or other toxins from the water. > > > >The bottom line is that there are probably several hundred people reading > >these posts & if the experts are seeming to disagree [which they are not] > >then the newbies will not only get confused but may go elsewhere & we all > >know how hit & miss the aquatic info is on the net so having a great > source > >of info like ours is quite a precious thing. > > > >The only time that I rinse filter material under tap water is when I am > >putting in new polyester foam/polyfilter pads as a water polishing stage > or > >changing my filter socks but then it is just to make sure there is no > loose > >fibres or dust on them. > > > >Finally I would say that almost all of the manufacturer's claims about > >replacement filtration is based a lot more on profit margins than tank eco > >system longevity. A couple of examples-the first filter I bought about 9 > >years ago was a Fluval 3 Plus & although I no longer use it regularly it > is > >still in fine fettle & is used occasionally. They recommend changint the > >sponges in there at [I think] 3 month periods but htey are very good > >material & I still have the original pads although they are a little > >discoloured now. The only thing I did swap out regularly was the thin > strip > >of polyester floss between the sponges for water polishing but that stuff > >is dirt cheap from any uphostery suppliers. As another example, I bought > an > >Eheim 2026 canister about 6 or 7 years ago & it's still in use as part of > a > >sub system on my 100 gallon & a most excellent machine it is too! However, > >they recommended changing the ceramic media in each tray alternately over > a > >6 month period which is quite ludicrous because that stuff is virtually > >indestructible & will last forever. There is also a thick blue sponge pad > >in the lower basket that they recommend replacing the same time & I still > >have the original one & it is completely intact. The supplied carbon pads > >supplied with both devices has never been used! > > > > John > > > > > >On 3 April 2013 23:03, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Hi Patrick, > >> > >> You may have seen that I posed several questions to Charles on this, to > >> which I have not yet seen his response. Until then, I'll reserve my take > > on > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54602	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hello Charles, I want to thank you right up front, for your informative response. Yes, I totally agree, the instructions from most LFS (Local Fish Stores/Shops) to keep replacing filter pads with new, is just a ploy to sell more consumables. As for finding the slime coat of bacteria on the inside walls of the tank, that becomes obvious to anyone doing regular tank maintenance, although this shouldn't often be disturbed if there's no reason to do so, i.e., if there's no algae growing on the glass. While this coating is on all surfaces, there's still no way of knowing how much actual beneficial nitrifying bacteria this slime coat consists of and how much other bacteria are present there, especially when considering that a cycle can't be continued just by depending on this slime coat on these surfaces. We still need a filter to establish much greater populations of nitrobacters on the media, and we depend on the media's more numerous bacteria cultures (despite the media's comparatively much smaller size) to establish a nitrogen cycle -- do we not? I realize that changing as much water as possible is always a benefit for the fish, and that it's the only practical method to remove the nitrate -- other than just relying on plants -- but we shouldn't rely on frequent partial water changes to replace the filter's media in removing ammonia and nitrite (as it appears you may be saying), should we? If we fall back on just changing water to remove these organic wastes, we really don't need a filter then, from what I'm understanding you to say -- or if we do need s filter (besides just falling back on the bacterial slime), then this shows that the nitrobacters in the media are very important and that they need to be preserved -- don't they? Otherwise, why even have filters in the tanks -- except to clarify the water by mechanically removing suspended particals -- if we are to rely on water changes (and the bacterial slime coating) only? Yes, I certainly believe in changing water to get rid of contaminants, just as you illustrate in flushing the oilet, etc., but this alone can't replace a cycle -- or can it? Should we just do without the filter completely? After all, with enough water changes, the clarity of the water should improve in most cases too and mechanical fuiltration should no longer be needed either. We also need to keep in mind that to maintain a cycle, we need to allow for a certain amount of ammonia to briefly remain in the water as food fr the nitrobacters if they're to survive. Changing water excessively in the aquarium will not allow for a cycle to continue, since this is an enclosed environment. The ideal situation would be as in a stream, where contaminents are constantly washed away, but an aquarium does not allow for this luxury -- or if you maintain it similarly, as with constant "flushing," it will never develop a cycle, which is fine too but only provided this regimen is maintained. You'll please note that I'm offering these statements in the form of questions, as I don't mean to appear confrontational, yet this is the way I've come to learn things in my biological schooling as the normal processes of the enclosed aquatic environment. Many thanks again for anything you can add to my comments and/or questions. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54603	From: Georgene	Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

We have a pond, and anacharis grows in abundance.  I was throwing it away and giving it away.  I put some in with the goldfish as a cover.  I found out they constantly nibble at the it.   I also have tropical fish, but the anacharis doesn't do very well in that tank.  It flourishes for a while then rots.  I did get a new filter system, a fluval.  I do not rinse anything in chlorinated water.    Georgene, Hunter, Harley, Rocky and Cinderella Isabella                   >________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:26 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Feeding Amount > >  > >Hi Ray, > >I'm all to aware of the need to feed sparingly, 100 gallons may sound a >lot to those who don't keep Goldfish but it is not very much when you have >4 large streamlined ones, even with a 25% water change every 2-3 days it is >a struggle keeping the nitrate below 30. I agree that is unusual for them >not to nibble at the plants, especially now I have them growing in such >abundance but it definitely has a positive side & that is the tank looks so >green & healthy with plenty of places for my fish to hide & explore. > >I have not tried Duckweed so that may be worth investigating, I know it is >a nightmare to get rid of from a pond but I think in a controlled tank >environment it should be easy-especially if the fish don't eat it. > >John<o)))< > >On 25 March 2013 08:40, <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi John, >> >> No matter what amount of food one makes these numerous feedings throughout >> the day, and the purpose for them including putting on faster growth, the >> fish shouldn't be fed any more than they can eat at any one time. We need >> to >> always be careful of how much to offer our fish at any one feeding. In >> your >> case, as you plan only to space out the normal amount of food they'd >> receive in one day, there's no danger of overfeeding, as they'll always >> have the >> capacity to eat more. I don't need to repeat this again, but most of us >> already know overfeeding (feeding more than the fish will consume at any >> one >> time), will only result in the excess food decaying on the substrate, >> polluting >> the water. >> >> While Goldfish can be offered lots of different vegetables, their usually >> just as happy feeding on tender, nutritioius aquatic plants like Anacharis >> and Duckweed. That your fish haven't taken a liking to very many plants is >> unusual for Goldfish as it's often the case that plants can't be kept in >> their >> aquariums or they'll be decimated. It's not always the case that Goldfish >> will be that ravenous, but often enough that they've developed a >> reputation >> for it -- and Koi can be twice as bad. >> >> Ray</HTML> >> >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54604	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Feeding Amount

Really terrific fish names; I especially like C. Isabella but I like them all. You need a bigger pond, to get more fish, to give them more names! LOL, LOL. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54605	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hello All, Let me first take John's response: >"Hi Charles, > > I change 25 gallons every 2 days. > > John*<o)))<* > >On 4 April 2013 04:38, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > > John, >> How often do you change how much water? >> > > Charles H >> > > > I don't want to ruffle any feathers [or perhaps scales??] here but I >> >think the original poster, Deb may be getting confused by the experts > > >apparently contradictory comments & sugegstions. and say, that message speaks volumes in several ways (pun intended) 25 gallons every 2 days or 25% every two days is very close to a very slow moving stream. One might find Killifish in it if it were in west Africa. 25% water changes /2 days doesn't constitute a complete renewal but it does maintain Nitrates at very low levels even in a heavily stocked tank. The amount of Ammonia in that kind of well attended system would be maintained very low as well. That is the way I would best do most of my tanks as well. I just do 80% changes once a week. I maintain mostly 10's and fives. There are 4 to 6 20's in my fish room depending on the otherwise work load. 25%/2 days or 80%/week keeps the fish healthy, plants growing and producing lots of eggs. There is over 50 years of fish keeping experience in my memory. And the longer I keep small tanks and speak with wholesale breeders with hundreds of gallons, the more I am coming to the belief that a filter does little more than move water over the surface of a tank and circulate the bottom to the top. I have stuck with sponge filters in most all of my tanks because the other kinds suck the Newly Hatched Brine Shrimp and small fry out of the water and kills them. Even a sponge filter will do that to some extent if everything is small. Once a month or so I remove a sponge and clean it out. The center of the filtration area of the sponges are normally so thick with dirt, etc. that there is no way they have been doing anything other than just moving the water around. And in that tank there are a hundred 2 month old fry waiting for larger quarters. In my experience, critically washing & cleaning that filter pad the get it back to factory condition or replacing it with new would create a very small minimal incident in the ionic content of that tank and it would return to its previous condition with in a short time and have no affect on the life within the tank. All of this assuming the tank was established and functioning. I am concerned with keeping several dozen week old tetra fry alive and healthy or keeping that slate of Cichlid eggs from fungus and getting to free swimming stage. I move a pair of Killifish out of their tank, change the water in that tank and start feeding microworms and BBS. In another week when I take out 85% of the water - I have to let the syphoned water pass through a shrimp net to catch & return fry back to the tank. >I want to thank you right up front, for your informative response. Yes, I >totally agree, the instructions from most LFS (Local Fish Stores/Shops) to >keep replacing filter pads with new, is just a ploy to sell more consumables. Thank you > >As for finding the slime coat of bacteria on the inside walls of the tank, >that becomes obvious to anyone doing regular tank maintenance, although this >shouldn't often be disturbed if there's no reason to do so, i.e., if >there's no algae growing on the glass. While this coating is on all surfaces, >there's still no way of knowing how much actual beneficial nitrifying bacteria >this slime coat consists of and how much other bacteria are present there, >especially when considering that a cycle can't be continued just by depending >on this slime coat on these surfaces. We still need a filter to establish >much greater populations of nitrobacters on the media, and we depend on the >media's more numerous bacteria cultures (despite the media's comparatively >much smaller size) to establish a nitrogen cycle -- do we not? > >I realize that changing as much water as possible is always a benefit for >the fish, and that it's the only practical method to remove the nitrate -- >other than just relying on plants -- but we shouldn't rely on frequent partial >water changes to replace the filter's media in removing ammonia and nitrite >(as it appears you may be saying), should we? If we fall back on just >changing water to remove these organic wastes, we really don't need a filter >then, from what I'm understanding you to say -- or if we do need s filter >(besides just falling back on the bacterial slime), then this shows that the >nitrobacters in the media are very important and that they need to >be preserved >-- don't they? > >Otherwise, why even have filters in the tanks -- except to clarify the >water by mechanically removing suspended particals -- if we are to >rely on water >changes (and the bacterial slime coating) only? Yes, I certainly believe >in changing water to get rid of contaminants, just as you illustrate in >flushing the toilet, etc., but this alone can't replace a cycle -- or can it? >Should we just do without the filter completely? After all, with enough water >changes, the clarity of the water should improve in most cases too and >mechanical fuiltration should no longer be needed either. We also >need to keep >in mind that to maintain a cycle, we need to allow for a certain amount of >ammonia to briefly remain in the water as food fr the nitrobacters if they're >to survive. Changing water excessively in the aquarium will not allow for a >cycle to continue, since this is an enclosed environment. This is exactly what I get out of John's reply to my question about how much & how often. Nature doesn't scrub the rocks, plants and wood and other debris, she changes the water. It has been working for me and a lot of other fish keepers/breeders for many years. > The ideal >situation would be as in a stream, where contaminents are constantly >washed away, >but an aquarium does not allow for this luxury -- or if you maintain it >similarly, as with constant "flushing," it will never develop a >cycle, which is >fine too but only provided this regimen is maintained. > >You'll please note that I'm offering these statements in the form of >questions, as I don't mean to appear confrontational, yet this is the way I've >come to learn things in my biological schooling as the normal processes of the >enclosed aquatic environment. Many thanks again for anything you can add to >my comments and/or questions. > >Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54606	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hello Charles, Thank you so very much for for candidness, especially as related to the topic at hand, but also in detailing the ongoing maintenance methods you've been employing in your hobby for these 50+ years as it gives us some insight to your fish keeping experiences. Not quite as good as actually being in your fishroom, but at least a step closer to it. Immensely enjoying your input here, and starting the return discussion of equating a 25% water change every two days near to what West African Killifish would enjoy in their wild stream environments, I would have to completely agree with this comparison even if this flow were nearer the headwaters where faster flows have not yet accumulated. Keeping this in mind, I need to remind the readers here that a nitrogen cycle needn't be established in nature to promote the welfare of its fishes when constant water is continually flowing past them -- and when (and only when) this much water is constantly changed in the aquarium, a nitrogen cycle really isn't needed in the enclosed environment (aquarium) either, provided large enough water changes are done frequently enough to eliminate the need for the cycle in replacing the nitrogenous waste removal process. We'll also note that John's Goldfish require an every other day 25% water change to clean his water clean, since Goldfish do create much more waste than many other fishes and since his fish are being kept in a comparatively smaller tamk than would be more ideal for them. Addressing the use of filters regarding fish wholesaler's establishments, these apparatuses are not -- and cannot, because of their manner of use -- be used as a biological filter simply because their required frequency of complete cleaning (with new media) every week, with the new weekly imports of fishes set up in freshly cleaned tanks every week to accomodate these new fish, never allows for the time necessary to establish nitrobacter colonies. These wholesalers' filters are used primarily as both mechanical filters and as oxygenators in turning over the water surface as they equalize the tanks' temperatures in doing so. This is yet another example of not needing a cycle -- and rightly so -- as most (or all) of the fish in these tanks are often sold out within the week in time for the next week's imports to be added to these tanks after re-cleaning and set up with new water again. In the seven days' time most of these fishes remain in these tanks, the ammonia never even gets the chance to spike. Any left-over fishes are transferred to these newly set up tank, of the same newly imported species, after the temperature comes up -- provided they still remain healthy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, and it's the only practical way that new fish can be added to these tanks and turned over for sale every week. Having had a fish store myself and later, being in partners in a wholesale establishment, I know full well of what's needed to prepare tanks weekly for fresh shipments of fish every week. However, this scenario is far removed from the home aquarium that is set up for long-term where a nitrogen cycle is relied upon by most aquarists as part of maintaining their fishes. Having nearly 66 years (come June) of fish keeping experience myself (and after having a tropical fish store and being a wholesale importer/distributer) and still presently maintaining a hatchery of 90 tanks with over 3200 gallons, I too do exactly the same as you in changing out 80% of the water in my tanks weekly. With my tanks averaging 40 to 50 gallons each -- also with numerous 75's and 100's as well as 5's and 10's for my Killifish, and even many 20 longs, etc. -- I prefer giving my fishes large partial water changes; it's most often completely doable when keeping one's tank water parameters (pH and hardness) close to those of one's water source. I'll just remind others here that large water changes are not always feasible if the tank water's parameters are allowed to vary too much in between PWC's from those of their water source. I do maintain filters for every tank -- and also prefer a sponge filter for fry -- and yet prefer to keep these and all other filters cycled with as large of a nitrobacter population the conditions will support under these conditions, as a back-up method of keeping my ammonia and nitrite down between these weekly PWC's. For that reason, the filter media are always rinsed in a container of the same unchlorinated private well water I use for my fishes and never under my chloramine-loaded tap water -- even though I'm relying mostly on large partial water changes to rid the tanks of organic wastes, and you could say I don't even need a cycle either, but I prefer to maintain them as large as they'll develop under the conditions even if reduced from some lack of ammonia from what would otherwise accumulate with smaller water changes. Most often, with fry tanks, I wouldn't even use a filter until after 3 or 4 weeks, just because of the reason a sponge filter can still trap them. Instead, I just change out water regularly in them to remove any contaminants -- but use only hand-held 1/2" syphon hose to assure not removing any fry. Extremely young fry just cannot excrete enough ammonia in a 20 gallon long -- where I start them off -- in the one week's time between PWC's to even make a dent; the food needs to be properly controlled though, as excess dead BBS will raise the ammonia and needs to be vacuumed off the bottom if seen. One of the main things in rearing fry is not to allow any build up of grow-inhibiting hormones, though. I can understand your maintenance methods and can agree with them, in the way you continue your weekly schedule -- probably even being quite similar to mine. The major difference in all of this where it 's associated with this group, is that many hobbyists here maintain just one larger aquarium and/or possibly a very few other aquaria with which they change out no more than perhaps 25% of the water weekly, or maybe 33% at the most -- with many changing out only 10% or 15% (just what's needed to keep their nitrate down so that it never accumulates over 40 ppm). For this, they definitely need a cycle as they fully rely on it in keeping their ammonia and nitrite at zero -- and they shouldn't risk the possiblitly of killing any nitrobacters off, when it's not needed to take this risk (imagined by some, or not). Many, many thanks again for your input. I fully enjoyed learning your particular methods and experiences. In closing, I'll just say that what works for us, and that may include John, doesn't necessarily work for the majority here. Live plants can also replace some of the PWCing needs, or the complete reliance on the cycle in removing the contaminants, but not everyone includes large growths of live plants either. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54607	From: Georgene	Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Too Many Mollies

I added 3 mollies to my tank about a year ago. now my tank is crowded with mollies of all sizes.  The local pet stores will not take them?? and I've given mollies to every conscientious fish owner I know, even my Veterinarian.  How soon do they start to multiply? I sure could use some input or suggestions on rehoming them.  Truthfully I'm not sure how to distinguish male from female.  I need to resolve this problem soon.  I only have a 29L tank. Georgene, Hunter, Harley, Rocky and Cinderella Isabella [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54608	From: SUZANNE WEBB	Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Too Many Mollies

I opened a new pet store in Knox,In I would be interested in the Mollies,please contact me ________________________________ From: Georgene <woofs3in18103@...> To: Aquatic life <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 6, 2013 8:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Too Many Mollies   I added 3 mollies to my tank about a year ago. now my tank is crowded with mollies of all sizes.  The local pet stores will not take them?? and I've given mollies to every conscientious fish owner I know, even my Veterinarian.  How soon do they start to multiply? I sure could use some input or suggestions on rehoming them.  Truthfully I'm not sure how to distinguish male from female.  I need to resolve this problem soon.  I only have a 29L tank. Georgene, Hunter, Harley, Rocky and Cinderella Isabella [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54609	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/10/2013
Subject: Re: homemade replacement filters

Hi Ray & Charles, Apologies for the late response but I have been busy with my job of cleaning ponds over the past few days because the weather in the UK has been terrible & consequently I am a month behind because the pond fish are only just waking up. A very interesting thread indeed! I have to say that much of my current success & maintenance regime is down to the great advice from Dawn about 18 months ago when my tank was not all it should have been & I have built on her ideas & suggestions ever since. My 3 Comets & 1 Common Goldfish are from 8 to 10 years old, about 8 inches long & nicely broad are continually foraging around-especially in the late evening when the tank has only low LED Moonlighting so they are happy fish in their somewhat small world. The Nitrate is around 25, used to be well above 40 a couple of years ago but as my tap water comes out at 15 I add about 10 gallons of R/O in that 25 gallon change, otherwise the NO3 would spiral out of control. Ammonia & Nitrite are zero & have been for many years or at least that is what they register on all my test kits & I use a variety of makes including API. My pH has dropped slightly over the 8 years I have been keeping these fish from 8 to 7.8 so I guess I have a pretty stable supply there I never clean my decor, much of it has some degree of algae clinging to it & the only portion of the tank I clean completely is the front simply so that I can see the fish & they can see me. The back has some nice patches of green algae several years old, I do get strands of blanket weed much as a pond will when exposed to sunlight but this is easily removed by hand when I do a water change. Charles, your idea of frequently changing a very large amount of water sounds very similar to the system we use when have a hospital set up utilising the Tub To Tub method daily so we are constantly moving the fish away from the infection & throwing out the old water they had been in. It all makes perfect sense but for me to do that with dirty & high maintenance large Goldfish would mean either installing some kind of trickle system into my tank from the water supply or change around 40% of the water daily, neither of which is really workable for me. The trickle system is dependent on having no power outages, if that should happen when I was out it could flood the tank with chlorine & changing out 40 gallons daily would take up such a large portion of my days that it would soon become a chore. As it is changing 25% every 2 days is easy as it takes around an hour including the other maintenance jobs. I can also see that if we are frequently changing such a large volume of water then having a filter could be counter-productive because if not maintained properly it could actually send more toxins back into the system than if it were not there. Indeed, I have had such problems in the past when I was not cleaning the media in my wet/dry for months-I now do it around once a month & yes I do wash all 158 nylon pan scrubbers in old tank water rather than tap water, it takes ages. Thank you Charles for giving us such entertaining ideas that challenge some of the very basic methods we take for granted! John*<o)))<* On 6 April 2013 12:12, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Charles, > > Thank you so very much for for candidness, especially as related to the > topic at hand, but also in detailing the ongoing maintenance methods > you've > been employing in your hobby for these 50+ years as it gives us some > insight to > your fish keeping experiences. Not quite as good as actually being in your > fishroom, but at least a step closer to it. > > Immensely enjoying your input here, and starting the return discussion of > equating a 25% water change every two days near to what West African > Killifish would enjoy in their wild stream environments, I would have to > completely > agree with this comparison even if this flow were nearer the headwaters > where faster flows have not yet accumulated. Keeping this in mind, I need > to > remind the readers here that a nitrogen cycle needn't be established in > nature > to promote the welfare of its fishes when constant water is continually > flowing past them -- and when (and only when) this much water is > constantly > changed in the aquarium, a nitrogen cycle really isn't needed in the > enclosed > environment (aquarium) either, provided large enough water changes are > done > frequently enough to eliminate the need for the cycle in replacing the > nitrogenous waste removal process. > > We'll also note that John's Goldfish require an every other day 25% water > change to clean his water clean, since Goldfish do create much more waste > than many other fishes and since his fish are being kept in a > comparatively > smaller tamk than would be more ideal for them. > > Addressing the use of filters regarding fish wholesaler's establishments, > these apparatuses are not -- and cannot, because of their manner of use -- > be > used as a biological filter simply because their required frequency of > complete cleaning (with new media) every week, with the new weekly imports > of > fishes set up in freshly cleaned tanks every week to accomodate these new > fish, never allows for the time necessary to establish nitrobacter > colonies. > These wholesalers' filters are used primarily as both mechanical filters > and > as oxygenators in turning over the water surface as they equalize the > tanks' > temperatures in doing so. > > This is yet another example of not needing a cycle -- and rightly so -- as > most (or all) of the fish in these tanks are often sold out within the > week > in time for the next week's imports to be added to these tanks after > re-cleaning and set up with new water again. In the seven days' time most > of these > fishes remain in these tanks, the ammonia never even gets the chance to > spike. Any left-over fishes are transferred to these newly set up tank, of > the > same newly imported species, after the temperature comes up -- provided > they still remain healthy. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, and > it's the only practical way that new fish can be added to these tanks and > turned over for sale every week. Having had a fish store myself and later, > being in partners in a wholesale establishment, I know full well of what's > needed to prepare tanks weekly for fresh shipments of fish every week. > However, > this scenario is far removed from the home aquarium that is set up for > long-term where a nitrogen cycle is relied upon by most aquarists as part > of > maintaining their fishes. > > Having nearly 66 years (come June) of fish keeping experience myself (and > after having a tropical fish store and being a wholesale > importer/distributer) and still presently maintaining a hatchery of 90 > tanks with over 3200 > gallons, I too do exactly the same as you in changing out 80% of the water > in my > tanks weekly. With my tanks averaging 40 to 50 gallons each -- also with > numerous 75's and 100's as well as 5's and 10's for my Killifish, and even > many 20 longs, etc. -- I prefer giving my fishes large partial water > changes; > it's most often completely doable when keeping one's tank water parameters > (pH and hardness) close to those of one's water source. I'll just remind > others here that large water changes are not always feasible if the tank > water's parameters are allowed to vary too much in between PWC's from > those of > their water source. > > I do maintain filters for every tank -- and also prefer a sponge filter > for > fry -- and yet prefer to keep these and all other filters cycled with as > large of a nitrobacter population the conditions will support under these > conditions, as a back-up method of keeping my ammonia and nitrite down > between > these weekly PWC's. For that reason, the filter media are always rinsed in > a > container of the same unchlorinated private well water I use for my fishes > and never under my chloramine-loaded tap water -- even though I'm relying > mostly on large partial water changes to rid the tanks of organic wastes, > and > you could say I don't even need a cycle either, but I prefer to maintain > them as large as they'll develop under the conditions even if reduced from > some > lack of ammonia from what would otherwise accumulate with smaller water > changes. > > Most often, with fry tanks, I wouldn't even use a filter until after 3 or > 4 > weeks, just because of the reason a sponge filter can still trap them. > Instead, I just change out water regularly in them to remove any > contaminants > -- but use only hand-held 1/2" syphon hose to assure not removing any fry. > Extremely young fry just cannot excrete enough ammonia in a 20 gallon long > -- where I start them off -- in the one week's time between PWC's to even > make a dent; the food needs to be properly controlled though, as excess > dead > BBS will raise the ammonia and needs to be vacuumed off the bottom if > seen. > One of the main things in rearing fry is not to allow any build up of > grow-inhibiting hormones, though. > > I can understand your maintenance methods and can agree with them, in the > way you continue your weekly schedule -- probably even being quite similar > to > mine. The major difference in all of this where it 's associated with this > group, is that many hobbyists here maintain just one larger aquarium > and/or > possibly a very few other aquaria with which they change out no more than > perhaps 25% of the water weekly, or maybe 33% at the most -- with many > changing out only 10% or 15% (just what's needed to keep their nitrate > down so > that it never accumulates over 40 ppm). For this, they definitely need a > cycle > as they fully rely on it in keeping their ammonia and nitrite at zero -- > and they shouldn't risk the possiblitly of killing any nitrobacters off, > when > it's not needed to take this risk (imagined by some, or not). Many, many > thanks again for your input. I fully enjoyed learning your particular > methods > and experiences. In closing, I'll just say that what works for us, and > that may include John, doesn't necessarily work for the majority here. > Live > plants can also replace some of the PWCing needs, or the complete reliance > on > the cycle in removing the contaminants, but not everyone includes large > growths of live plants either. > > Ray > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54610	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Brrrrrr.

Just had quite an ice storm here; almost 24 hours with no power. It was 12 degrees c. in here last night when we went to bed, and 0 outside. Had the tanks wrapped in blankets and towels yesterday and last night... I remembered that's what Noura does... hope you guys are doing ok there still... I think of you when I see something on the news... Everyone seems ok now that the powers back on; but last night they were askin' me for coats....or if they could start a bonfire. :-)>>> Before next winter I need to look into getting some kind of backup battery pack. Anyone used one successfully for their tanks before? My wife and I survived with coats and blankets; but I was worried about the fish... our Australian Shepherd with the double coat... not so much. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54611	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/13/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.

I use a generator to run certain house items (fridge, well, heat) and fish tanks periodically during a power outage. An hour or two at each mealtime and at bedtime to hold the fish over for the six hour overnight period. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:48 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Brrrrrr. Just had quite an ice storm here; almost 24 hours with no power. It was 12 degrees c. in here last night when we went to bed, and 0 outside. Had the tanks wrapped in blankets and towels yesterday and last night... I remembered that's what Noura does... hope you guys are doing ok there still... I think of you when I see something on the news... Everyone seems ok now that the powers back on; but last night they were askin' me for coats....or if they could start a bonfire. :-)>>> Before next winter I need to look into getting some kind of backup battery pack. Anyone used one successfully for their tanks before? My wife and I survived with coats and blankets; but I was worried about the fish... our Australian Shepherd with the double coat... not so much. :-)>>> Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54612	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.

I have a power inverter that connect to a car battery & supplies a mains 240V supply while the engine is running. I bought this several years ago just in case I needed it but so far we have not had any significant power outages-luckily! John*<o)))<* On 13 April 2013 17:45, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > I use a generator to run certain house items (fridge, well, heat) and fish > tanks periodically during a power outage. An hour or two at each mealtime > and at bedtime to hold the fish over for the six hour overnight period. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:48 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Brrrrrr. > > > Just had quite an ice storm here; almost 24 hours with no power. > It was 12 degrees c. in here last night when we went to bed, and 0 outside. > Had the tanks wrapped in blankets and towels yesterday and last night... I > remembered that's what Noura does... hope you guys are doing ok there > still... I think of you when I see something on the news... > Everyone seems ok now that the powers back on; but last night they were > askin' me for coats....or if they could start a bonfire. :-)>>> > Before next winter I need to look into getting some kind of backup battery > pack. > Anyone used one successfully for their tanks before? My wife and I survived > with coats and blankets; but I was worried about the fish... > our Australian Shepherd with the double coat... not so much. :-)>>> > > Al. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54613	From: rachell7	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.

We have had some power outages occasionally in our area but not for a sustained period of time that it would affect our fish. However I have often wondered what people do when they have outages for that last longer then 8 to 12 hours! I can't imagine how cold it must have been with that ice storm! Never been in one myself (don't want to either!) but I did see the damage they can do when we went back to TN and VA 2 years ago! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Just had quite an ice storm here; almost 24 hours with no power. > It was 12 degrees c. in here last night when we went to bed, and 0 outside. > Had the tanks wrapped in blankets and towels yesterday and last night... I remembered that's what Noura does... hope you guys are doing ok there still... I think of you when I see something on the news... > Everyone seems ok now that the powers back on; but last night they were askin' me for coats....or if they could start a bonfire. :-)>>> > Before next winter I need to look into getting some kind of backup battery pack. > Anyone used one successfully for their tanks before? My wife and I survived with coats and blankets; but I was worried about the fish... > our Australian Shepherd with the double coat... not so much. :-)>>> > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54614	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/14/2013
Subject: Re: Brrrrrr.

8-12 hours would probably be OK, but once you get into 24 hours or several days it gets trickier without a generator. We have a wood burning stove that can heat the main part of the house, but without a generator we have no water. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rachell7 Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:37 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Brrrrrr. We have had some power outages occasionally in our area but not for a sustained period of time that it would affect our fish. However I have often wondered what people do when they have outages for that last longer then 8 to 12 hours! I can't imagine how cold it must have been with that ice storm! Never been in one myself (don't want to either!) but I did see the damage they can do when we went back to TN and VA 2 years ago! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Just had quite an ice storm here; almost 24 hours with no power. > It was 12 degrees c. in here last night when we went to bed, and 0 outside. > Had the tanks wrapped in blankets and towels yesterday and last night... I remembered that's what Noura does... hope you guys are doing ok there still... I think of you when I see something on the news... > Everyone seems ok now that the powers back on; but last night they were askin' me for coats....or if they could start a bonfire. :-)>>> > Before next winter I need to look into getting some kind of backup battery pack. > Anyone used one successfully for their tanks before? My wife and I survived with coats and blankets; but I was worried about the fish... > our Australian Shepherd with the double coat... not so much. :-)>>> > > Al. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54615	From: Robert	Date: 4/19/2013
Subject: Snails and hair

I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone please help? Robert

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54616	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54617	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54618	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Do the hairs wiggle? Nematodes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@... <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54619	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

They don't wiggle. I'm suspecting it might have to do with the sponge filter being moved because that's about the time it all started. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 04/21/13 04:13:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Do the hairs wiggle? Nematodes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@... <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54620	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Using hot water tap

Is it wrong to mix hot and cold water from the tap when filling a cold water tank? Robert

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54621	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Using hot water tap

I do it. My hot water is “instant hot” it does not hit in a hot water heater and get heated and cooled repeatedly, so no extra unwanted minerals. You just have to be careful when it is really cold outside that you don’t get too much gas dissolved in the water try to let the water tumble from some height or be aerated a little to outgas before adding it to your tank. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 8:35 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Using hot water tap Is it wrong to mix hot and cold water from the tap when filling a cold water tank? Robert [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54622	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Using hot water tap

Yes, only use water from the cold tap & then condition it because hot water is usually stored in a tank, cold water usually comes fresh from the mains. I would also suggest letting the cold water run for 5-10 seconds before using it, that should clear the standing water in the branch pipe between your tap & the main water pipe. If the water is colder than the tank you are adding it to then heat it up by placing the bucket in a bath or sink filled with hot water for a few minutes. Generally a simple dipping of the finger is a relatively good method of gauging a temperature match. John*<o)))<* On 21 April 2013 01:34, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > Is it wrong to mix hot and cold water from the tap when filling a cold > water tank? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54623	From: Robert	Date: 4/20/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Ive studied the tiny hair-like things in my tank. Looking very closely, they are moving. So you're right they are nematodes. And they obviously came with the new snail. I just rang the xxxxxxxx at the aquarium enquiring if they could harm my snails. He said he doesn't know. I'm quite upset over this. I m not sure how to proceed. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 04/21/13 04:13:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Do the hairs wiggle? Nematodes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@... <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54624	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

The ones I have had (like yours) did no harm. Mine came from some substrate litter in a "bare" bottom tank that never got vacuumed. I changed the water and removed the substrate and they went away. Maybe they just accumulated under the air-powered biofilter over time, and when it was moved they escaped? They don't have to be "introduced" with another plant or animal. They will show up in your tank if conditions are right, just like beneficial bacteria do. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Ive studied the tiny hair-like things in my tank. Looking very closely, they are moving. So you're right they are nematodes. And they obviously came with the new snail. I just rang the xxxxxxxx at the aquarium enquiring if they could harm my snails. He said he doesn't know. I'm quite upset over this. I m not sure how to proceed. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 04/21/13 04:13:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Do the hairs wiggle? Nematodes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@... <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54625	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/21/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Hi Robert, I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you see any on the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without actually seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54626	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

I don't have substrate. I am shocked they can appear without being introduced. They either appeared under the filter as you say or came in egg form from the new snail. Its impossible to say given the timing coincidence. Thanks for letting me know. -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 4/21/2013 9:53:25 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair The ones I have had (like yours) did no harm. Mine came from some substrate litter in a "bare" bottom tank that never got vacuumed. I changed the water and removed the substrate and they went away. Maybe they just accumulated under the air-powered biofilter over time, and when it was moved they escaped? They don't have to be "introduced" with another plant or animal. They will show up in your tank if conditions are right, just like beneficial bacteria do. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Ive studied the tiny hair-like things in my tank. Looking very closely, they are moving. So you're right they are nematodes. And they obviously came with the new snail. I just rang the xxxxxxxx at the aquarium enquiring if they could harm my snails. He said he doesn't know. I'm quite upset over this. I m not sure how to proceed. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 04/21/13 04:13:40 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Do the hairs wiggle? Nematodes? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi John, It's not snail droppings or spawn. But it did seem to appear after a snail moved one of the the bio sponge filters. It's not the filter outlet, it's the filter itself, here's a picture of the filter. Thanks, Robert. -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 4/21/2013 12:08:11 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, Bear in mind I know next to nothing about snails but could the white hairs be snail droppings? Also can you tell us if the white hairs were there before the snail moved the filter outlet? Finally if they only appeared after you got the second snail then could the stands be spawn? John*<o)))<* On 20 April 2013 04:39, Robert <708804@... <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> <mailto:708804%40gmail.com> > wrote: > ** > > > I'm concerned about my apple snails. I had one and then bought another a > week ago for breeding purposes. All at once now there are a lot of small > white hairs floating around the tank. Nothing different has happened, > except one snail pushed one air-powered bio filter way out of position. > I've tried the first 60 results on Google search, nothing. Can anyone > please help? > Robert > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54627	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Hi Ray, These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it kinda looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the tank is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the tank on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what happens. I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the tank If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then they're doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really not sure whats going on. Thanks, Robert -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you see any on the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without actually seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54628	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes we would normally siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had nematodes I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Ray, These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it kinda looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the tank is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the tank on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what happens. I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the tank If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then they're doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really not sure whats going on. Thanks, Robert -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you see any on the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without actually seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54629	From: Robert	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Donna, I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite perplexed Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny like a fine hair. Thanks for your advice, Robert -------Original Message------- From: Donna Ransome Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes we would normally siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had nematodes I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Ray, These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it kinda looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the tank is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the tank on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what happens. I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the tank If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then they're doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really not sure whats going on. Thanks, Robert -------Original Message------- From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair Hi Robert, I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you see any on the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without actually seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54630	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Robert, how big is the tank, how often do you feed them & how much do you feed at each 'sitting'? As I said earlier, I know next to nothing about snails but the answers might prove very useful for one of our experts. John*<o)))<* On 22 April 2013 22:29, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > ** > > > Donna, > I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the > debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or > two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a > mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite > perplexed > Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria > because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny > like a fine hair. > Thanks for your advice, > Robert > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Donna Ransome > Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > > > Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes�we would normally > siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had > nematodes�I didn�t and that�s why they showed up. I�ve never had planaria, > but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Robert > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > > Hi Ray, > > These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria > pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% > certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm > uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the > tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep > checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the > snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little > while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of > matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it > kinda > looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the > tank > is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the > tank > on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what > happens. > I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the > tank > If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then > they're > doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really > not > sure whats going on. > > Thanks, > Robert > > -------Original Message------- > > From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > > Hi Robert, > > I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't > moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you > see > any on > the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been > introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without > actually > seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54631	From: Dctrpangloss	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Do I need to put salt in an indoor tank of goldfish? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > Robert, how big is the tank, how often do you feed them & how much do you > feed at each 'sitting'? As I said earlier, I know next to nothing about > snails but the answers might prove very useful for one of our experts. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 22 April 2013 22:29, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Donna, >> I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the >> debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or >> two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a >> mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite >> perplexed >> Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria >> because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny >> like a fine hair. >> Thanks for your advice, >> Robert >> >> >> >> >> -------Original Message------- >> >> From: Donna Ransome >> Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair >> >> >> Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes…we would normally >> siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had >> nematodes…I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, >> but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. >> >> _____ >> >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On >> Behalf Of Robert >> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair >> >> Hi Ray, >> >> These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria >> pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% >> certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm >> uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the >> tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep >> checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the >> snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little >> while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of >> matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it >> kinda >> looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the >> tank >> is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the >> tank >> on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what >> happens. >> I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the >> tank >> If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then >> they're >> doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really >> not >> sure whats going on. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert >> >> -------Original Message------- >> >> From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> >> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't >> moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you >> see >> any on >> the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been >> introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without >> actually >> seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. >> >> Ray </HTML> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54632	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: [was ] Snails and hair - now goldfish

>Do I need to put salt in an indoor tank of goldfish? > >Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:48 NO! Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54633	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/22/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish and salt (?); was: Snails and hair

Hello dctrpangloss, No, there's no need to use salt for Goldfish, or any otherr freshwater fish. As Goldfish get large though == up to 14" -- they do need a large enough tank; up to about 75 gallons each, depending on the variety (Common and Comet Goldfish reach about 14"); and they're notoriously large waste producers. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54634	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Robert, Just a thought, Planaria ARE extremely skinny, although this description may be subjective as to how thin "extremely skinny" actually is. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54635	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

There is another possibility for what these are besides nematode or planaria... they could be fly larva. There are a number of tiny insects, mostly fruit fly size, who's larva get introduced to aquariums, feed on waste and other debris in the tank and eventually morph into small flies that tend to hang around the surface of the tank. I have had these in various tanks over the yrs and they resemble tiny white strands that wiggle through the water and on the substrate. I wish I could post a photo for you to compare, but they're too small for my camera to capture. If I see anymore of them anytime soon I will try to scoop a few out into a glass jar to see if I can get a photo for you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dctrpangloss <dctrpangloss@...> wrote: > > Do I need to put salt in an indoor tank of goldfish? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > Robert, how big is the tank, how often do you feed them & how much do you > > feed at each 'sitting'? As I said earlier, I know next to nothing about > > snails but the answers might prove very useful for one of our experts. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 22 April 2013 22:29, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Donna, > >> I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the > >> debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or > >> two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a > >> mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite > >> perplexed > >> Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria > >> because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny > >> like a fine hair. > >> Thanks for your advice, > >> Robert > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: Donna Ransome > >> Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> > >> Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes…we would normally > >> siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had > >> nematodes…I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, > >> but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of Robert > >> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Ray, > >> > >> These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria > >> pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% > >> certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm > >> uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the > >> tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep > >> checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the > >> snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little > >> while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of > >> matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it > >> kinda > >> looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the > >> tank > >> is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the > >> tank > >> on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what > >> happens. > >> I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the > >> tank > >> If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then > >> they're > >> doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really > >> not > >> sure whats going on. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > >> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Robert, > >> > >> I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't > >> moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you > >> see > >> any on > >> the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been > >> introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without > >> actually > >> seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. > >> > >> Ray </HTML> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54636	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Springtails? _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 12:06 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails and hair There is another possibility for what these are besides nematode or planaria... they could be fly larva. There are a number of tiny insects, mostly fruit fly size, who's larva get introduced to aquariums, feed on waste and other debris in the tank and eventually morph into small flies that tend to hang around the surface of the tank. I have had these in various tanks over the yrs and they resemble tiny white strands that wiggle through the water and on the substrate. I wish I could post a photo for you to compare, but they're too small for my camera to capture. If I see anymore of them anytime soon I will try to scoop a few out into a glass jar to see if I can get a photo for you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Dctrpangloss <dctrpangloss@...> wrote: > > Do I need to put salt in an indoor tank of goldfish? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > Robert, how big is the tank, how often do you feed them & how much do you > > feed at each 'sitting'? As I said earlier, I know next to nothing about > > snails but the answers might prove very useful for one of our experts. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 22 April 2013 22:29, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Donna, > >> I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the > >> debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or > >> two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a > >> mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite > >> perplexed > >> Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria > >> because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny > >> like a fine hair. > >> Thanks for your advice, > >> Robert > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: Donna Ransome > >> Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> > >> Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes…we would normally > >> siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had > >> nematodes…I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, > >> but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > >> Behalf Of Robert > >> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Ray, > >> > >> These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria > >> pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% > >> certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm > >> uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the > >> tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep > >> checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the > >> snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little > >> while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of > >> matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it > >> kinda > >> looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the > >> tank > >> is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the > >> tank > >> on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what > >> happens. > >> I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the > >> tank > >> If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then > >> they're > >> doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really > >> not > >> sure whats going on. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > >> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Robert, > >> > >> I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't > >> moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you > >> see > >> any on > >> the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been > >> introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without > >> actually > >> seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. > >> > >> Ray </HTML> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com> to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com> for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com <mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com> to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54637	From: Al Keep	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Dude. I think at this point, I would maybe just start over, sanitize everything, and switch pet stores if possible; you must have caught something from them; they didn't just evolve in there. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54638	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 4/23/2013
Subject: A life jacket for goldfish

Hope this is ok to post. Scientists are now actually looking into this to help humans . This crippled goldfish can now swim thanks to a homemade life jacket: http://t.co/BgpOH8QDxw ________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement includes...people too. ~ California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: A life jacket for goldfish

Hi Angela, That's a very ingenious device, I've seen a few instances of home made in-tank supports & harnesses for fish with mobility problems but that's the first one I've seen that gives the fish freedom to move-thanks for posting. John*<o)))<* On 24 April 2013 01:27, Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...>wrote: > Hope this is ok to post. > Scientists are now actually looking into this to help humans . This > crippled goldfish can now swim thanks to a homemade life jacket: > http://t.co/BgpOH8QDxw > ________________________________ > Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal > Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ > Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement > includes...people too. ~ > California Wildlife Center, volunteer wildlife warrior > www.cawildlife.org > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54640	From: Ava	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?

Hey folks. I have a couple live plants in my goldfish tank that aren't looking too happy. They're alive, but not thriving. I don't use CO2 or anything, all I have is the full spectrum fauna light on my tank. Substrate is gravel. I was curious if anyone knew of a good plant fertilizer that is okay for goldfish? Preferably something that doesn't require water changes? The water quality where I live is horrendous and it's difficult to get it to ideal fish levels. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54641	From: harry perry	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?

I've used Flourish Excel with some success. Harry ________________________________ From: Ava <aboswell91@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?   Hey folks. I have a couple live plants in my goldfish tank that aren't looking too happy. They're alive, but not thriving. I don't use CO2 or anything, all I have is the full spectrum fauna light on my tank. Substrate is gravel. I was curious if anyone knew of a good plant fertilizer that is okay for goldfish? Preferably something that doesn't require water changes? The water quality where I live is horrendous and it's difficult to get it to ideal fish levels. Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54642	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?

Hi Ava, I have great success with TetraPlant Complete Substrate in regular clay garden pots, the plants I grow are Jungle Vallis & Anacharis. The substrate is quite expensive but it last almost indefinitely with just a little topping-up from time to time. I would recommend placing a large pebble in the bottom of the pot before filling as this will stop the sand like substrate from spilling out & once filled the wet the substrate with a little tank water, that makes it so much easier to work with. Just make some holes & plant what you have just as you would a regular garden plant in a pot but following advice from Dawn I always trim a little of the root length before potting-up as this seems to increase the growth rate dramatically. Before you set your pots in the tank be sure to cover the exposed substrate at the top with marbles or pebbles or else your fish will dig it all out & make a mess. In addition to the above plants I also have 2 types of Hornwort & this plant doesn't root because it just drifts around in the water. I anchor mine down under rocks just to keep it tidy & it grows so much that I am constantly cutting the lower ends off when it reaches the surface. John*<o)))< * On 24 April 2013 17:04, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > I've used Flourish Excel with some success. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Ava <aboswell91@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 11:57 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] plant fertilizer safe for goldfish? > > > � > Hey folks. I have a couple live plants in my goldfish tank that aren't > looking too happy. They're alive, but not thriving. I don't use CO2 or > anything, all I have is the full spectrum fauna light on my tank. Substrate > is gravel. I was curious if anyone knew of a good plant fertilizer that is > okay for goldfish? Preferably something that doesn't require water changes? > The water quality where I live is horrendous and it's difficult to get it > to ideal fish levels. > Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54643	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54644	From: sevenspringss	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: plant fertilizer safe for goldfish?

Ava, Aquarium Planttabs broken into pieces and pushed down into the gravel between the roots works fine, as does Flourish Excel ("Liquid Carbon") added to the water. Seachem's Flourish Iron added twice a week helps in allowing the plants to use the Flourish Excel more easily and efficiently. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54645	From: Amber	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Ick on Tiger Barbs!

Hello, I got two new tiger barbs from the store a few days ago. I placed them in my 10 gallon for quarantine for exactly this reason. They were fine for a few days but I just noticed the tell tale white specks on them. What should I do? There are a few live plants but the can be removed if I need to. I also have a heater that I can use but it doesn't have the suction cups used to hold it on the glass. Is there any way I can use this? I lost 8 fish to ich before I started to quarantine. So, what can I do? Can I use that heater? What about salt, can I put some in and if so how much? Please help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54646	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 4/24/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!

The quickest and most effective treatment is Quick Cure with a tank temperature above 80F or any other ICH cure with Formalin and Malachite Green formulation. There are other cures but this one is the best tried and true treatments. Salt doesn't kill the parasite! High temperature kills the parasite but stresses the fish much more than the chemicals. Go to the store you got the fish from and complain!!!! COMPLAIN!! Isolated, the fish had the parasite from their tanks! it is their responsibility to help you cure them. Once they are clean and clear the parasite is gone. Should take 3 weeks. Get the store to work with you! Charles H Hello, I got two new tiger barbs from the store a few days ago. I placed them in my 10 gallon for quarantine for exactly this reason. They were fine for a few days but I just noticed the tell tale white specks on them. What should I do? There are a few live plants but the can be removed if I need to. I also have a heater that I can use but it doesn't have the suction cups used to hold it on the glass. Is there any way I can use this? I lost 8 fish to ich before I started to quarantine. So, what can I do? Can I use that heater? What about salt, can I put some in and if so how much?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54647	From: Robert	Date: 4/25/2013
Subject: Re: Snails and hair

Its possible, but I havent seen any small flies in my home. Thanks. Robert -------Original Message------- From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c Date: 04/24/13 02:06:14 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Snails and hair There is another possibility for what these are besides nematode or planaria .. they could be fly larva. There are a number of tiny insects, mostly fruit fly size, who's larva get introduced to aquariums, feed on waste and other debris in the tank and eventually morph into small flies that tend to hang around the surface of the tank. I have had these in various tanks over the yrs and they resemble tiny white strands that wiggle through the water and on the substrate. I wish I could post a photo for you to compare, but they re too small for my camera to capture. If I see anymore of them anytime soon I will try to scoop a few out into a glass jar to see if I can get a photo for you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Dctrpangloss <dctrpangloss@...> wrote: > > Do I need to put salt in an indoor tank of goldfish? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 22, 2013, at 6:48 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > Robert, how big is the tank, how often do you feed them & how much do you > > feed at each 'sitting'? As I said earlier, I know next to nothing about > > snails but the answers might prove very useful for one of our experts. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 22 April 2013 22:29, Robert <708804@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Donna, > >> I did a huge water change and siphonned the debris a few days ago. But the > >> debris started to build up at an immense rate already after only a day or > >> two. It's my strong opinion that there's too much debris even if it is a > >> mixture of algae wafers and snail poo. It's baffling and I'm quite > >> perplexed > >> Given what I now know I still cant tell if they're nematodes or planaria > >> because they are still small from being young and they're extremely skinny > >> like a fine hair. > >> Thanks for your advice, > >> Robert > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: Donna Ransome > >> Date: 04/23/13 02:47:37 > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> > >> Any amount of debris on the bottom can harbor nematodes…we would normally > >> siphon this out during weekly water changes. In the tank where I had > >> nematodes…I didn’t and that’s why they showed up. I’ve never had planaria, > >> but Ray knows his stuff so maybe they ARE planaria. > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > >> Behalf Of Robert > >> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:02 AM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Ray, > >> > >> These pests are extremely skinny. They don't look as thick as the planaria > >> pictures I saw online, although my pests are still young, so I'm not 100% > >> certain. The amount on the glass and floating around is roughly equal. I'm > >> uncertain about the considerable collection of matter at the bottom of the > >> tank. Ive been feeding my two snails one algae wafer at a time and keep > >> checking the location they fall at the bottom of the tank, waiting for the > >> snails to completely consume it before feeding them again after a little > >> while. The confusing thing is that in recent times there has been a lot of > >> matter at the bottom of the tank. I took this to be snail poo. But it > >> kinda > >> looks a bit like dissolved algae wafer. The amount at the bottom of the > >> tank > >> is a lot for poo in my opinion. I'm not sure whats going on. I keep the > >> tank > >> on my desk and spend a lot of time at my desk, so see a lot of what > >> happens. > >> I've never seen them push the dissolved algae wafer material around the > >> tank > >> If it is largely dissolved algae wafer pushed around the tank, then > >> they're > >> doing it behind my back only at night when I'm not watching. I'm really > >> not > >> sure whats going on. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert > >> > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: sevenspringss@... <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com> > >> Date: 4/21/2013 10:47:12 PM > >> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > >> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Snails and hair > >> > >> Hi Robert, > >> > >> I didn't suggest this before, since you said these "threads" weren't > >> moving, but now that they are they could be planaria, especially if you > >> see > >> any on > >> the glass. If this is what you have, they may or may not have been > >> introduced by the snails, but they often occur from overfeeding. Without > >> actually > >> seeing them, I say say this is defintely what you have though. > >> > >> Ray </HTML> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸ ·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , ·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54648	From: Ava	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Cost of a beginner salt water setup?

I've only ever had freshwater tanks, but my dad keeps subtly mentioning how awesome it would be to have a saltwater tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and some accessories left over, but wasn't sure if 10 gallon is even worth it or if I have to go at least 20+ to get some cool fish. I'm not the most financially stable right now, and we're short on space. Is saltwater too expensive to just "dabble" in? I haven't looked into it before. I have a spot on a table I could but the tank, but would I need a stand to hide canisters and such? If you could put a price on a halfway-decent small beginner saltwater setup, what would it be? Thanks folks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54649	From: harry perry	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Ava.....Re: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup?

Your going to get many posts talking about huge tanks, protein skimmers, etc. etc. I belong to a Yahoo group called Ultimate Sea horse. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ultimate_Seahorse/?yguid=141850848 They keep dwarf sea horses in a 10 gallon salt tank. The horses thrive and do much better in the smaller tank. It concentrates the live food which is a requirement. One of the biggest challenges in this hobby is to eliminate the myths perpetrated by the industry. Harry ________________________________ From: Ava <aboswell91@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup?   I've only ever had freshwater tanks, but my dad keeps subtly mentioning how awesome it would be to have a saltwater tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and some accessories left over, but wasn't sure if 10 gallon is even worth it or if I have to go at least 20+ to get some cool fish. I'm not the most financially stable right now, and we're short on space. Is saltwater too expensive to just "dabble" in? I haven't looked into it before. I have a spot on a table I could but the tank, but would I need a stand to hide canisters and such? If you could put a price on a halfway-decent small beginner saltwater setup, what would it be? Thanks folks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54650	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 4/29/2013
Subject: Re: Ava.....Re: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup?

My dream tank will be 36" with maybe 3 small fish like the Pseudochromis fridmani and easy soft corals. I think I will have to buy a skimmer though. And the cost of salt is an ongoing expense. I also hear the ideal is to mix the salt for a long time like in a holding tank with a pump. That alone is holding me back.having the water change water always ready and not getting it right out of the tap in an instant. I think it depends on your definition of cool fish because a lot of marines need a larger tank and may be territorial. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Ava.....Re: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup? Your going to get many posts talking about huge tanks, protein skimmers, etc. etc. I belong to a Yahoo group called Ultimate Sea horse. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ultimate_Seahorse/?yguid=141850848 They keep dwarf sea horses in a 10 gallon salt tank. The horses thrive and do much better in the smaller tank. It concentrates the live food which is a requirement. One of the biggest challenges in this hobby is to eliminate the myths perpetrated by the industry. Harry ________________________________ From: Ava <aboswell91@... <mailto:aboswell91%40gmail.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:36 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Cost of a beginner salt water setup? I've only ever had freshwater tanks, but my dad keeps subtly mentioning how awesome it would be to have a saltwater tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and some accessories left over, but wasn't sure if 10 gallon is even worth it or if I have to go at least 20+ to get some cool fish. I'm not the most financially stable right now, and we're short on space. Is saltwater too expensive to just "dabble" in? I haven't looked into it before. I have a spot on a table I could but the tank, but would I need a stand to hide canisters and such? If you could put a price on a halfway-decent small beginner saltwater setup, what would it be? Thanks folks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54651	From: hba1c98pump13	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: New member and poster

Hello~ I'm wanting to get a fish tank with a Betta and mystery snail. Do these two get along in the same tank? How big is the min. size tank that would work? I am also thinking of growing aquarium plants. Any information on how to get started? Whats needed etc? I live in a highrise and don't have a whole lot of room, but room enough for something small. I just need some color in my life plus I have heard that fish tanks help with blood pressure, anxiety and depression. Thanks in advance Lynn in Wisconsin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54652	From: Amber Larr	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

Hello! Welcome to AquaticLife. Bettas are often considered the fish that can live in very small tanks. I think that if you wanted a Betta and a Mystery Snail you would want a 5 gallon tank and a filter. Don't forget to buy an ammonia testing kit (Preferably liquid) as well as a nitrate and nitrite kits. These will allow you to know how toxic the water is to your fish. Fish, snails, and even uneaten food as it rots will produce the toxin ammonia. Ammonia will build up and suffocate your fish. But, don't be afraid! Good bacteria are present in every tank and can build up over time. This good bacteria basically eats the ammonia and creates nitrite, which is slightly less toxic. Then, the nitrite is converted into nitrate by the bacteria, which is even less toxic. It is not recommended that you ever change 100% of the water. 25-50% water changes are recommended every week or whenever you have an ammonia reading on your test kit. You should, after a few months, barely ever see any ammonia on your test. Water changes should still be kept up although at that point you can only do a water change every two or three weeks. For more information, do a search on 'cycling a fish tank.' So, you'd need the following things for your tank: net tank (Five gallons is alright) Filter Heater Food Water conditions Water testers Betta Snail I hope that was okay. ________________________________ From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:11 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New member and poster Hello~ I'm wanting to get a fish tank with a Betta and mystery snail. Do these two get along in the same tank? How big is the min. size tank that would work? I am also thinking of growing aquarium plants. Any information on how to get started? Whats needed etc? I live in a highrise and don't have a whole lot of room, but room enough for something small. I just need some color in my life plus I have heard that fish tanks help with blood pressure, anxiety and depression. Thanks in advance Lynn in Wisconsin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54653	From: harry perry	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: A beautiful documentory.....

Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzJU810AIk&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54654	From: Dora Smith	Date: 4/30/2013
Subject: Re: A beautiful documentory.....

I’ve been watching fish documentaries all night. Very nice. What are the clear little fish with bright red heads and black and white striped tails? I’ve never seen them before. Dora From: harry perry Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] A beautiful documentory..... Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzJU810AIk&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54655	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: Cost of a beginner salt water setup?

I don't recommend a 10 gallon (or any other "small" under 30 gallons) tank to a beginner in the saltwater hobby unless that person has some kind of help from someone who has experience with it. While Harry is right, there are some seahorses (dwarf species) that require a smaller tank, they are also very sensitive to water chemistry and fluctuations. What Harry neglected to mention is that the smaller the tank is the harder it is to keep it stable. I have been keeping saltwater for almost 20 yrs and my husband for over 30 yrs. When working with a small tank there is more evaporation to deal with and that can cause rapid and drastic fluctuations in salinity not to mention waste. Water evaporates but the salt does not. Aside from that there is some equipment that is needed to keep saltwater that isn't needed for freshwater. A hydrometer or refractometer is a MUST to measure salinity, and this has to be tracked regularly anytime water is added to the tank. Saltwater must be premixed at least 24 - 48 hrs before used in the aquarium to ensure thorough mixing and accurate salinity readings, so that requires a separate container along with a pump, and as Donna mentioned a ready supply of salt mix at all times. The smaller the tank the more often you will need to do water changes, thus the cost of salt will rise somewhat for a smaller tank. A steady supply of freshwater is also needed, again to keep salinity stable and within a safe range for the animals being kept. Something such as dwarf seahorses (yes, I've kept seahorses) are much less tolerant to these fluctuations than some of the other animals available for saltwater tanks. Skimmers are another consideration. For a beginner I always suggest a skimmer, however, there isn't an effective one available for a small tank and would require the hobbyist to do the skimming manually with paper towels. This takes a bit of practice but is not difficult to learn, just a little messy. Test kits are also vital to keeping a healthy and successful saltwater tank, but aside from the 4 used in freshwater (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH), there is also the calcium test that is needed. Calcium is vital to the survival of the animals be it fish, corals/inverts, or seahorses. Calcium that is too high or too low will quickly affect the health of the animals. (they rely on proper calcium levels for organ function) There is no way to predict ahead of time whether or not a calcium supplement would be needed for any given tank, but this is a cost that should be accommodated from the start because many do need it. In regards to expenses there is still the standard equipment such as filtration, heater, etc. that is required, and along with that, something such as seahorses or other reef animals would also require live sand or aragonite sand for substrate, and then there is live rock. Saltwater tanks rely much more heavily on biological filtration than freshwater tanks and saltwater is more of an exact science than freshwater, meaning less room for mistakes before you end up with sick or dead animals. Biological filtration should not be skimped on. Expect 1 lb of sand per gallon of tank capacity and at least 1 lb of live rock per gallon of tank capacity. For an estimated cost for keeping a saltwater tank I would suggest you make yourself a list of each thing mentioned here and do some browsing around online to price them, or search your local pet store. Even a 10 gallon can cost as much as $150 - $200+ to set up properly. If you wish to keep fish rather than seahorses, the limit for a 10 gallon tank would be 1 small fish that stays 3 inches or less, such as a shrimp goby. Small tanks, referred to as nano tanks, are best suited for inverts such as corals and shrimp, however, it will take some patience, research, and likely some experienced help to find animals that are compatible in that size of a tank. Not all corals are compatible and not all inverts are compatible. You may get 1 - 2 shrimp into a tank that size safely, but not more than that. The other consideration with corals is the growth rate. Healthy corals will grow quickly and if crowded will start to die off just as quickly. Incompatible corals will attack and kill each other, especially in a small confined space. If you desire to keep corals in a nano tank then you will want to learn ahead of time about fragging and propagation, and be prepared on how to deal with overgrowth. (either a larger tank ready to upgrade or an outlet such as a pet store that will take/buy the frags you are keeping... and this should be arranged ahead of time because most stores are specific in what types they will accept due to the difficulty in mixing and keeping them and the space, lighting, etc. involved) Lastly is the lighting. If you desire to keep corals then specific lighting will be needed and that is dependent upon the species in your tank. Some require much higher lighting than others and this can also be expensive. I hope this helps. I don't wish to discourage you from trying your hand at saltwater, but nor do I wish to see you end up with a dead and expensive mess because you weren't prepared. If you have more questions please feel free to ask. I will do all I can to guide you through. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > I've only ever had freshwater tanks, but my dad keeps subtly mentioning how awesome it would be to have a saltwater tank. I have a 10 gallon tank and some accessories left over, but wasn't sure if 10 gallon is even worth it or if I have to go at least 20+ to get some cool fish. I'm not the most financially stable right now, and we're short on space. Is saltwater too expensive to just "dabble" in? I haven't looked into it before. I have a spot on a table I could but the tank, but would I need a stand to hide canisters and such? > If you could put a price on a halfway-decent small beginner saltwater setup, what would it be? > Thanks folks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54656	From: hba1c98pump13	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a tank? Lynne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54657	From: harry perry	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Water is approx. 8 lbs. per gallon. Add everything up. Harry ________________________________ From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question   Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a tank? Lynne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54658	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Is this the 16 gallon version? Gallons are nice for a betta, but I don't like the smaller surface area for air exchange. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:58 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question Water is approx. 8 lbs. per gallon. Add everything up. Harry ________________________________ From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@... <mailto:hba1c98pump13%40yahoo.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:03 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a tank? Lynne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54659	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/1/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Hi Lynne, I agree with Donna regarding the small surface area of BiOrbs, really the only suitable shape tank for just about all aquatic animals is rectangular & not too deep at that. The large amount of surface area compared to the total volume of water then the better the oxgenation [gas transfer] will be. The only way for a spherical tank to have good gas transfer would be if it was only filled half way therefore giving the maximum amount of surface area [that goes for bowls as well] but it rather defeats the object so go for a rectangle. John*<o)))<* On 1 May 2013 20:59, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > ** > > > Is this the 16 gallon version? Gallons are nice for a betta, but I don't > like the smaller surface area for air exchange. > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:58 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > > Water is approx. 8 lbs. per gallon. Add everything up. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@... > <mailto:hba1c98pump13%40yahoo.com> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:03 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a > CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. > > Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a > tank? > > Lynne > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54660	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

I agree with the others about the lack of surface area for a betta who would need plenty of surface area to get oxygen. I've maintained a few of these kinds of tanks and there are a couple of other issues with them as well. They're difficult to clean because of the limited amount of space at the opening and magnetic scrapers don't do so well on the rounded surface. The other issue for anything tropical, especially a betta who needs the warmer temps is how to get a heater in there appropriately. Standard submersible heaters use suction cups to attach to glass but on the curved glass they don't stick/hold well which leaves them hanging and floating in the water. Not a good or safe situation plus it looks awful. The other type of heaters that hang on the side of a standard tank won't fit on those tanks properly to hang and those cannot be fully submerged. About the only fish I would attempt to keep in a tank like that would be white cloud minnows because they stay small enough and can tolerate an unheated tank... but then you still run into the difficulty with cleaning, especially trying to do gravel vacs. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "hba1c98pump13" <hba1c98pump13@...> wrote: > > > Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a > CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. > > Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a > tank? > > Lynne > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54661	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Agreed John. When I bought my 40g I bought the "breeder." It has a large footprint; it's about 36x18. It's better for them physically with the greater surface area; and I think they are probably happier, and feel like they have more room, the more "ground" they have to cover. Al. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Lynne, > > I agree with Donna regarding the small surface area of BiOrbs, really the > only suitable shape tank for just about all aquatic animals is rectangular > & not too deep at that. The large amount of surface area compared to the > total volume of water then the better the oxgenation [gas transfer] will > be. The only way for a spherical tank to have good gas transfer would be if > it was only filled half way therefore giving the maximum amount of surface > area [that goes for bowls as well] but it rather defeats the object so go > for a rectangle. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 1 May 2013 20:59, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Is this the 16 gallon version? Gallons are nice for a betta, but I don't > > like the smaller surface area for air exchange. > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of harry perry > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:58 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > > > > > Water is approx. 8 lbs. per gallon. Add everything up. > > > > Harry > > > > ________________________________ > > From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@... > > <mailto:hba1c98pump13%40yahoo.com> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:03 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > > > Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a > > CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. > > > > Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of a > > tank? > > > > Lynne > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54662	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!

Okay, so I lost one of the barbs. The other looks like it will die any second so please, I need an answer fast. The fish is acting very stressed. Should I do a 1/2 water change and replace with fresh water? Water temperature is at 85 degrees. And, to Charles, I've done a lot of research. Heat speeds up ich's lifespan, making it go into the stage where it is free swimming faster. The job of the salt is to kill these free swimmers. Although it doesn't seem to be working... Maybe I'll check and see if I still have any medication left from the last time I had ich. I doubt it, though. Not enough to fully treat all 10 gallons, I don't think... I just changed 3 gallons of the water and mixed in a little salt while I was at it... ________________________________ From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ick on Tiger Barbs! The quickest and most effective treatment is Quick Cure with a tank temperature above 80F or any other ICH cure with Formalin and Malachite Green formulation. There are other cures but this one is the best tried and true treatments. Salt doesn't kill the parasite! High temperature kills the parasite but stresses the fish much more than the chemicals. Go to the store you got the fish from and complain!!!!  COMPLAIN!! Isolated, the fish had the parasite from their tanks! it is their responsibility to help you cure them. Once they are clean and clear the parasite is gone. Should take 3 weeks. Get the store to work with you! Charles H Hello, I got two new tiger barbs from the store a few days ago. I placed them in my 10 gallon for quarantine for exactly this reason. They were fine for a few days but I just noticed the tell tale white specks on them. What should I do? There are a few live plants but the can be removed if I need to. I also have a heater that I can use but it doesn't have the suction cups used to hold it on the glass. Is there any way I can use this? I lost 8 fish to ich before I started to quarantine. So, what can I do? Can I use that heater? What about salt, can I put some in and if so how much? ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54663	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/2/2013
Subject: Re: BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question

Hi Al, That's exactly my thoughts, I only have any real experience with standard Goldfish but I am guessing that just about all fish-given the choice-would prefer to be able to swim in straight lines because that is what a wild fish would do & only a regular shaped tank can give them this option. Not very scientific I know but my fish seem to be happy in their home. John*<o)))< * On 2 May 2013 12:56, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Agreed John. > > When I bought my 40g I bought the "breeder." It has a large footprint; > it's about 36x18. It's better for them physically with the greater surface > area; and I think they are probably happier, and feel like they have more > room, the more "ground" they have to cover. > > Al. > :-)>>> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Lynne, > > > > I agree with Donna regarding the small surface area of BiOrbs, really the > > only suitable shape tank for just about all aquatic animals is > rectangular > > & not too deep at that. The large amount of surface area compared to the > > total volume of water then the better the oxgenation [gas transfer] will > > be. The only way for a spherical tank to have good gas transfer would be > if > > it was only filled half way therefore giving the maximum amount of > surface > > area [that goes for bowls as well] but it rather defeats the object so go > > for a rectangle. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 1 May 2013 20:59, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Is this the 16 gallon version? Gallons are nice for a betta, but I > don't > > > like the smaller surface area for air exchange. > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > > Behalf Of harry perry > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 2:58 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > > > > > > > > Water is approx. 8 lbs. per gallon. Add everything up. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: hba1c98pump13 <hba1c98pump13@... > > > <mailto:hba1c98pump13%40yahoo.com> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:03 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] BioOrb tanks at Petsmart and question > > > > > > > Has anyone had one of these? I like the look of them. I can see a > > > CrownTail Betta and snail on one of these. > > > > > > Another question I have is: How do you calculate full set up weight of > a > > > tank? > > > > > > Lynne > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54664	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!

Hi Amber L., If you're going to use an Ich medication, there's no need to increase the heat. Ich medications are formulation to act against Ich at normal tropical aquarium temperatures. As many Ich medications are toxic to living organisms to some degree (some organisms affected more than others) since this is how they kill Ich, they're also toxic to a lesser degree to fishes and can cause them stress. As such, there's no need to use any medications against Ich if using the salt and heat treatment; salt should be used at a level of oner tablespoon per 5 gallons. However, while raising the temperature to 85 o will of course increase the metabolism of any organism (except for warm-blooded mammals which regulate their temperatures), and will speed up their lifecycle -- including Ich's -- it also makes Ich more virulent as the temperature approaches 85 o. Fortunately, the increased temperature also increases fishes' immune systems even though it may cause them some stress as the treatment extends (which may take up to 10 days), although not as much stress as some medications will cause. The use of salt will help weaken Ich, but its main function is to stimulate the fishes' production of an increase of the body mucus coating, making it much more difficult for the Ich to get a toe-hold on the fishes' skin. To be effective though, the temperature must be boosted to minimum of 86 o, at which point Ich is no longer able to reproduce. At this temperature too, Ich's lifecycle will be speeded up to only 48 hours. With them dying off after this time, and with fewer of them being able to find a fish host as each cycle passes and then not having newer generations of them, they are soon decimated. However, as Ich's cycle is 48 hours at this temperature, one must ensure the temperature is not lowered until at least 48 hours after seeing the last signs of them on the fishes -- and preferably up to about 60 hours after seeing the last of them. Then, the temperature should be lower back to normal, but only gradually over a period of at least 24 hours. As the salt & heat treatment is by far the most effective against Ich, while producing the least amount of stress, most hobbyist who know about it now prefer it above any other treatments. There's no risk to scaleless species such as Cory Catfish, Loaches, "Elephant-Noses," and "Whales," as there otherwise would be if using a dye medication against Ich. As there are some species which normally prefer slight lower normal temperatures, they may be expected to have to endure somewhat more stress at this temperature, but increased aeration is always advised. Besides, heavy water circulation also makes it more difficult for Ich to find a host. As thermometers (and heater settings) can vary, it's always adviseable to boost the temperature up to at least 87 o rather than try for an exact 86 o, which you may not really achieve when considering these possible variations in equipment. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54665	From: Amber	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights

I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry about a stairwell getting in the way. I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will go back to normal and I can have free time again. Amber Berglund

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54666	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ick on Tiger Barbs!

Thank you, Dawn for telling me that. I wish I would have known that before. Ilooked an looked but nothing said anything about how tolertable tiger barbs are with salt and high heat. Both fish have died now. I had removed the remaining barb from the tank and placed it in a gallon bucket away from salt for the night. I survived but when I got home earlier it was dead. If the next tiger barbs I have get it, I'll probably search for some medicationor take them back and demand my money back or new fish.... Thank you for this information. ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54667	From: Robert	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

All I can say is that the added weight of gravel will make lifting very difficult if not impossible. My removalists even said so about my 55 gallon tank. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Amber Date: 05/04/13 05:23:42 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry about a stairwell getting in the way. I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will go back to normal and I can have free time again. Amber Berglund [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54668	From: pam andress	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: 708804@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? All I can say is that the added weight of gravel will make lifting very difficult if not impossible. My removalists even said so about my 55 gallon tank. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Amber Date: 05/04/13 05:23:42 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry about a stairwell getting in the way. I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will go back to normal and I can have free time again. Amber Berglund [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54669	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

Well, that's kind of a long trip. To move across town, I just put all the fish in aquarium water in a five gallon bucket. I don't know how to pack them up to move to Florida. Dora -----Original Message----- From: pam andress Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: 708804@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? All I can say is that the added weight of gravel will make lifting very difficult if not impossible. My removalists even said so about my 55 gallon tank. Robert -------Original Message------- From: Amber Date: 05/04/13 05:23:42 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry about a stairwell getting in the way. I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will go back to normal and I can have free time again. Amber Berglund [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54670	From: jaiko	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

well the good thing is your in florida like me and there tons of fish farms do to our weather. sorry to hear about the loss' were in fl are u now? -----Original Message----- Date: Saturday, May 04, 2013 12:52:59 am To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? Well, that's kind of a long trip. To move across town, I just put all the fish in aquarium water in a five gallon bucket. I don't know how to pack them up to move to Florida. Dora -----Original Message----- From: pam andress Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: 708804@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? All I can say is that the added weight of gr

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54671	From: aquaticjoy@...	Date: 5/3/2013
Subject: Re: A life jacket for goldfish

It's been a really long time since I have played with fish and I am finding a need for the water and having colorful vibrate animals in and outside. Got a Betta tonight, and want to put goldfish in pond outside. May dust off all my aquariums some day. Joy:) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54672	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

Hi Amber, I would suggest fixing your empty tank onto a rigid platform for the move such as a short aluminum ladder or a length of board. That will give you the rigidity you need to ensure there is no stress put onto the seals while also giving you something easy to hold on to rather than just holding the tank. Use some rubber matting [cheap stuff on a roll from hardware stores that you use under mats on slippery floors] between the board/ladder & the tank or some other non-slip material to ensure it doesn't move & then tie the tank on securely with straps or even lots of electrical tape. Depending on how large the entire thing is once it is ready to move then you could maybe use those carrying straps then if you need to. I'm assuming that your tank is glass & it's going to be some weight so empty it needs to be completely emptied, put everything into buckets for the short time that your tank is broken down to it's component parts. Put the fish in one bucket, the decor & plants etc in another & the filter media in another-each can then be moved separately & safely upstairs. Is your tank on a stand or a dedicated unit or is it going to be set on something new once you get upstairs? If it will have anew stand then it is easy, just transfer from one to the other but if you are using whatever it is standing on now then put the stand in it's new place first so that you can move it straight there. If possible, slide the tank on & off it's temporary 'stretcher' rather then picking it up & setting it down on it because sliding will cause less stress to the corner seals. John*<o)))<* On 3 May 2013 20:23, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move > my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. > Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry > about a stairwell getting in the way. > I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the > gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be > staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) > Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps > you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure > how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. > Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots > of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will > go back to normal and I can have free time again. > > Amber Berglund > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54673	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

Hi Pam, I'm sorry to hear you lost most of your fish on the move, was it a long trip & did you have battery operated air pumps running? John*<o)))<* On 4 May 2013 02:30, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. > Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 > for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 > cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: 708804@... > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) > fish tank up two flights of stairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can say is that the added weight of gravel will make lifting > very > > difficult if not impossible. My removalists even said so about my 55 gallon > > tank. > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: Amber > > > Date: 05/04/13 05:23:42 > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish > tank > > up two flights of stairs? > > > > > > > > > I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move > > > my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. > > > Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry > > > about a stairwell getting in the way. > > > I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the > > > gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be > > > staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) > > > Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps > > > you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure > > > how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. > > > Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots > > > of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will > > > go back to normal and I can have free time again. > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54674	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up tw...

Hi Amber, John may have a very good point here. I too would also suggest strapping the tank very securely to a long, wide board to move it. These lifting slings depend both on friction -- so as not to slide toward you and out from under the object being lifted -- and also on the lifted object being kept horizontally. When carrying the tank up the stairs, it will be impossible to hold the tank horizontally and the lifting sling held by the person on the higher steps will just slide right out from under the tank. Not only does glass not allow much friction, but the angle will ensure the sling will be pulled out from under the tank by the person at the top of the stairs. I believe you're doing the Walstad method for substrate in this tank. An empty 125 gallon tank is rated by the "All Glass Aquarium" manufacturer at 175 pounds. I know you don't want to mess around with removing and then replacing this soil, but saturated top soil weighs an awful lot. Why risk damage to the tank, or to you when lifting it up the stairs? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54675	From: pam andress	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

I moved from IN to FL. The heat packs in my fish boxes did not keep them warm enough. It was only a 24 hr move, but still not warm enough before we hit the warmer weather. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: simmonds.john@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 10:49:52 +0100 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? Hi Pam, I'm sorry to hear you lost most of your fish on the move, was it a long trip & did you have battery operated air pumps running? John*<o)))<* On 4 May 2013 02:30, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote: > I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. > Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 > for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 > cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. > Pam > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > From: 708804@... > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) > fish tank up two flights of stairs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can say is that the added weight of gravel will make lifting > very > > difficult if not impossible. My removalists even said so about my 55 gallon > > tank. > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: Amber > > > Date: 05/04/13 05:23:42 > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish > tank > > up two flights of stairs? > > > > > > > > > I am moving this month and am trying to figure out a way to safely move > > > my 125 gallon (glass) tank up 2 flights of stairs. > > > Thankfully it's 2 flights outside of the house so we don't have to worry > > > about a stairwell getting in the way. > > > I was hoping to not have to remove all of my gravel and just fix the > > > gravel that shifts once the tank is flat and upstairs where it will be > > > staying. I'm also hoping this is the last time I have to move this tank ;) > > > Does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about the carry straps > > > you can buy that help with proper lifting techniques, but wasn't sure > > > how well they would work with a 6 foot long fishtank. > > > Sorry I've been so quiet (and not moderating) the last few months, lots > > > of stuff going on that's been keeping me occupied. I'm hoping life will > > > go back to normal and I can have free time again. > > > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54676	From: pam andress	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

I'm in Melbourne FL. I don't know of any fish farms, but I have found a guppy club. I was able to get a trio at a meeting and I have babies already. I have some LF albino bristle nose and L333's being shipped to me Monday. Now I just need some cories and this tank will be okay. Then I need to get more of my tanks down here. lol They are in storage in IN still. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com CC: From: greychildren@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 00:09:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? well the good thing is your in florida like me and there tons of fish farms do to our weather. sorry to hear about the loss' were in fl are u now? -----Original Message----- Date: Saturday, May 04, 2013 12:52:59 am To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? Well, that's kind of a long trip. To move across town, I just put all the fish in aquarium water in a five gallon bucket. I don't know how to pack them up to move to Florida. Dora -----Original Message----- From: pam andress Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? I just moved to FL and brought 1-55 gal tank. I emptied the tank totally. Put the gravel in cat litter containers and it worked great. Only took 2 for the gravel and 1 for the live plants. Unfortunately I lost all but 1 cory, 1 cherry shrimp, and my mystery snails in the trip. Pam To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: 708804@... Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 07:21:02 +1000 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two flights of stairs? All I can say is that the added weight of gr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54677	From: janfuqua2004	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Decorative Barnacles in Aquarium

I purchased a barnacle cluster (decorative, non-living) and am thinking of putting it in my Malawi cichlid aquarium. Is it safe to do this? If so, how would I need to prepare it before placing it in the aquarium? It appears very clean, but does it need to soak in something first?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54678	From: deenerzz	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Decorative Barnacles in Aquarium

If it is clean go ahead and place it in the tank. Have done so several times over the years with no problems. Mike -----Original Message----- From: LJFUQUA <LJFUQUA@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, May 4, 2013 9:54 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Decorative Barnacles in Aquarium I purchased a barnacle cluster (decorative, non-living) and am thinking of putting it in my Malawi cichlid aquarium. Is it safe to do this? If so, how would I need to prepare it before placing it in the aquarium? It appears very clean, but does it need to soak in something first? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54679	From: Laura Galbraith	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

I would be concerned about not removing the gravel out of the tank and the integrity of the tank afterwards. On another note, my husband and I moved our tropical fish tank from Eureka California (about 1 hour and 45 minutes on the coast from the Oregon border) to Portland Oregon and with no deaths. We used those toss able plastic containers food containers and drilled holes in them for water circulation, separated each type of fish that we had. Emptied out almost all the water into the large buckets that aquarium salt comes in, one bucket had water and the plants in also. We then took out as much of the substrate as we could. Since the fish were tropical we bought a ice chest that was big enough to fit all the plastic containers that were going to hold all the fish and drilled a hole large enough to have a bubbler and heater fit into the cooler and had an inverter in the car and drove up all night, set up the tank (with our dogs) and returned back to old home waited for movers to pick up our crap and returned to our new home. No fish loss =) The fish store in Eureka where we shopped offered to buy back all our babies but we did not want to, they predicted a 50% fish loss, when we told them what we did and gave them pictures, they were impressed! Laura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54680	From: Laura Galbraith	Date: 5/4/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

Oh and FYI long time reader first time poster =) Laura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54681	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

Hi Laura, Great first time post, and very informative. Hope you've been enjoying yourself here. Please feel free to post more when you can. Ray (moderator)</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54682	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

Definitely an appliance mover (hand cart) like they use for refrigerators. Then you just need 2 people with strong backs to lift the tank onto the stand. This is how I moved mine.stone steps and all. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sevenspringss@... Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 7:25 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u... Hi Laura, Great first time post, and very informative. Hope you've been enjoying yourself here. Please feel free to post more when you can. Ray (moderator)</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54683	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

The appliance movers are the bigger hand carts with better wheels, and someitmes you have the option which way you want to use it – four wheeled or two. Dora From: Donna Ransome Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 6:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u... Definitely an appliance mover (hand cart) like they use for refrigerators. Then you just need 2 people with strong backs to lift the tank onto the stand. This is how I moved mine.stone steps and all. _____ From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 7:25 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u... Hi Laura, Great first time post, and very informative. Hope you've been enjoying yourself here. Please feel free to post more when you can. Ray (moderator)</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54684	From: Amber	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone :) I think I'm going to end up replacing the substrate so that I can move the tank. It's a walstad setup with soil under the gravel, so if I remove it it's not going to be reusable without a lot of work to clean all the soil out of the gravel. I was looking at prices for new gravel and I'm trying to figure something cheaper out, I may just do another walstad setup. Why does aquarium gravel have to be so darn expensive? I wanted to get a good flourite type gravel for my plants, but it's going to take around 15 bags of (15#) gravel at least, and that's several hundred dollars just for the gravel, thank goodness for Amazon Prime! Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54685	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank up two fli

Hi Laura, Well done! If everything goes to plan & you do your homework then there should rarely be any deaths when moving, great idea with the power inverter. I have one just in case we have a power outage for any length of time but fingers crossed there has been no need to use it yet. John*<o)))<* On 4 May 2013 20:26, Laura Galbraith <lauragalbraithrn@...> wrote: > ** > > > Oh and FYI long time reader first time poster =) > > Laura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54686	From: Jaiko	Date: 5/5/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

Use pea gravel from home depo 3 dollar a bag hope this help Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: >Thanks for all the suggestions everyone :) >I think I'm going to end up replacing the substrate so that I can move >the tank. It's a walstad setup with soil under the gravel, so if I >remove it it's not going to be reusable without a lot of work to clean >all the soil out of the gravel. >I was looking at prices for new gravel and I'm trying to figure >something cheaper out, I may just do another walstad setup. Why does >aquarium gravel have to be so darn expensive? I wanted to get a good >flourite type gravel for my plants, but it's going to take around 15 >bags of (15#) gravel at least, and that's several hundred dollars just >for the gravel, thank goodness for Amazon Prime! > >Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54687	From: Amber	Date: 5/6/2013
Subject: Re: Ideas on safely moving a 125 gallon (glass) fish tank u...

I don't have a home depot in my town (I'm on an island in Alaska). So it's not easy to get stuff here, I typically have to order most everything. I didn't want to use dirt/gravel again and wanted to get a "proper" plant gravel this time around. I'm actually considering selling the 125 gallon tank instead of moving it... Might be a better idea in the long run. Amber On 5/5/2013 6:06 PM, Jaiko wrote: > > Use pea gravel from home depo 3 dollar a bag hope this help > > Amber <arberglund@... <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > >Thanks for all the suggestions everyone :) > >I think I'm going to end up replacing the substrate so that I can move > >the tank. It's a walstad setup with soil under the gravel, so if I > >remove it it's not going to be reusable without a lot of work to clean > >all the soil out of the gravel. > >I was looking at prices for new gravel and I'm trying to figure > >something cheaper out, I may just do another walstad setup. Why does > >aquarium gravel have to be so darn expensive? I wanted to get a good > >flourite type gravel for my plants, but it's going to take around 15 > >bags of (15#) gravel at least, and that's several hundred dollars just > >for the gravel, thank goodness for Amazon Prime! > > > >Amber > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54688	From: mrbushy2003	Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: KH & GH

Hi Everyone, I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. John<o)))< [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54689	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/9/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi John, This is a good question, and one that most every hobbyist should understand to be able to know more about one's water chemistry and how changes may affect it. Neither KH nor GH is directly dependant upon the temperature, although the temperature may be partially responsible for the pH -- depending upon what other substances are in the water. While I won't go into all that chemistry, since it doesn't directly involve this question, to put things simply, KH is the measure of carbonate hardness (temporary hardness -- buffering capacity); it's also a "base" (as opposed to an acid) and may be expressed as a level of "alkalinity," not to be confused with the term "alkaline" as an expression of pH. GH or General Hardness, also at times called TH or Total Hardness, is a measure of all hardness influences including KH. As the elements Calcium and Magnesium are what causes water to be "hard," carbonate hardness is the result of how much calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate compounds are present in the water; these may be in the form of "carbonate" or as "bicarbonate," the latter being less stable. In combination with other hardening compounds such as Magnesium Sulfate (or Calcium Sulfate), etc., a measure of GH is obtained. I also won't go into other hardening agents such as aldehyde compounds as they're not related to aquaria issues. As for KH, it's not the carbonate part of it that makes the water hard. but these certain metals (Calcium and Magnesium) -- just as these same metals add to the GH as Sulfate compounds of these metals -- but these carbonate and bicarbonate compounds chemically react to Hydrogen ions, affecting the pH (pH is a measure of free Hydrogen ions in the water, with the greater amount of them causing a lower pH while a lesser amount of them adversely causing a higher pH -- not the other way around, as some tend to think). I'm trying to explain this slowly, as I go along, but please feel free to ask any questions after digesting this. Now, getting back to the KH (and the pH you asked about), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH are interdependant upon each other, but if you want to ask which one "affects" the other, it's more like the pH is affected by the KH to start with -- when considering the KH's initial value -- but after they interact, they're both affected. I'll try to explain this below, as it's easier said than understood by others, but essentially with a KH of 5 as an example (which yours is), if an acid were added to your water to drop your pH to 7.2, this action in increased buffering against this new acid would reduce your KH. Before going any further though, the GH is not affected by the pH, as the same amount of hardening metals will always be present regardless of the interaction of the KH and pH. Okay, now as for the interaction of the KH and pH, as I said, the KH level shows how much buffering capacity the water has. You might ask, "buffering" against what? The KH buffers against the influences of acids in trying to act against these acids dropping the pH. The higher the KH, the greater the buffering capacity of preventing the pH from dropping by these acids. While the carbonates of the KH are interacting with and combining with these hydrogen ions, the KH's buffering capacity is being used up (lowered), but then too, this influence is weakening the acid to stabilize the pH at a level that's a compromise between them. Too low of a KH can become dangerous if additional acid compounds (caused possibly by erroneously monitored organic processes, as an example) which suddenly and unexpectedly build up can overwhelm it, causing a pH crash. Erroneously monitored organic processes are those caused by poor and inattentive attention to the balance of one's aquarium, insufficient PWCing and overfeeding being only a couple of them. GH is often expressed either in "degrees" or in ":ppm" (parts per million), with one (1) dGH (degrees General Hardness, or degrees German Hardness) equalling approximately 17.8 ppm. Your 10 dGH is moderately hard, but not so much as to affect most fishes. Hope I've made this understandable. If not, please ask me to clarify anything still not clear. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54690	From: harry perry	Date: 5/10/2013
Subject: Fw: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Frank M. Greco <phrankg@...> To: uniquaria <UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com>; FreshwaterShrimp@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 12:12 AM Subject: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct   http://news.yahoo.com/london-zoo-seeks-female-mate-near-extinct-fish-093645236.html Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54691	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: Fw: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct

Let's hope their appeal is successful. John*<o)))< * On 11 May 2013 05:18, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: Frank M. Greco <phrankg@...> > To: uniquaria <UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com>; > FreshwaterShrimp@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 12:12 AM > Subject: [UniQuaria] Fish nearly extinct > > > � > > http://news.yahoo.com/london-zoo-seeks-female-mate-near-extinct-fish-093645236.html > > Frank > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54692	From: reneap7040	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: crawfish.

Hi, I had a crawfish for a week now.I got it from a exwife,who had a crawfish eating party,and this guy was left-overs.He is about 6 inches,and he is red with a lot of dark patterns all over.Is that enough for some of you to know ,what kind he is? I feed him twice a day.1st meal is a piece of plant matter,and 2end meal is a dead feder goldfish.He eats both very eagerly. He lives in a 20 gal tank,with filters and air bubbels.I change about 5 gal a week. He is living alone. Is there anything I need to know? Rene'.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54693	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: crawfish.

I used to have some "rescues" from the market;  First off- make sure the lid on your tank is tight; crawfish are Houdinis of the crab variety. All it needs is air tubing and it's gone! Second- it needs a cave to call "home", they feel safer if they have a place of their own to retreat to. If you have excess plants from another tank you don't particulary want to keep; put them in there, they will more than likely become his salad bar. Same goes for those annoying  snails that volunteer from one tank to another. DO NOT put any fish in there that you like; come night, that fish is on the menu! I hope that helps some, mine escaped via the teeny gap for the HOB filter and me and the cat found it dead in a corner of the family room. We both freaked out. Enid ________________________________ From: reneap7040 <reneap7040@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 12:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] crawfish.   Hi, I had a crawfish for a week now.I got it from a exwife,who had a crawfish eating party,and this guy was left-overs.He is about 6 inches,and he is red with a lot of dark patterns all over.Is that enough for some of you to know ,what kind he is? I feed him twice a day.1st meal is a piece of plant matter,and 2end meal is a dead feder goldfish.He eats both very eagerly. He lives in a 20 gal tank,with filters and air bubbels.I change about 5 gal a week. He is living alone. Is there anything I need to know? Rene'. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54694	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/11/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Ray, Thanks very much for the insight, been too busy to reply until this evening so I am just getting my head round the text & will let you know if I have any questions shortly. John*<o)))<* On 9 May 2013 17:24, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > This is a good question, and one that most every hobbyist should > understand > to be able to know more about one's water chemistry and how changes may > affect it. Neither KH nor GH is directly dependant upon the temperature, > although the temperature may be partially responsible for the pH -- > depending > upon what other substances are in the water. > > While I won't go into all that chemistry, since it doesn't directly > involve > this question, to put things simply, KH is the measure of carbonate > hardness (temporary hardness -- buffering capacity); it's also a "base" > (as opposed > to an acid) and may be expressed as a level of "alkalinity," not to be > confused with the term "alkaline" as an expression of pH. GH or General > Hardness, also at times called TH or Total Hardness, is a measure of all > hardness > influences including KH. > > As the elements Calcium and Magnesium are what causes water to be "hard," > carbonate hardness is the result of how much calcium carbonate or > magnesium > carbonate compounds are present in the water; these may be in the form of > "carbonate" or as "bicarbonate," the latter being less stable. In > combination > with other hardening compounds such as Magnesium Sulfate (or Calcium > Sulfate), etc., a measure of GH is obtained. I also won't go into other > hardening > agents such as aldehyde compounds as they're not related to aquaria issues. > > As for KH, it's not the carbonate part of it that makes the water hard. > but > these certain metals (Calcium and Magnesium) -- just as these same metals > add to the GH as Sulfate compounds of these metals -- but these carbonate > and > bicarbonate compounds chemically react to Hydrogen ions, affecting the pH > (pH is a measure of free Hydrogen ions in the water, with the greater > amount > of them causing a lower pH while a lesser amount of them adversely causing > a > higher pH -- not the other way around, as some tend to think). > > I'm trying to explain this slowly, as I go along, but please feel free to > ask any questions after digesting this. Now, getting back to the KH (and > the > pH you asked about), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH are interdependant > upon > each other, but if you want to ask which one "affects" the other, it's > more > like the pH is affected by the KH to start with -- when considering the > KH's initial value -- but after they interact, they're both affected. I'll > try > to explain this below, as it's easier said than understood by others, but > essentially with a KH of 5 as an example (which yours is), if an acid were > added to your water to drop your pH to 7.2, this action in increased > buffering against this new acid would reduce your KH. Before going any > further > though, the GH is not affected by the pH, as the same amount of hardening > metals > will always be present regardless of the interaction of the KH and pH. > > Okay, now as for the interaction of the KH and pH, as I said, the KH level > shows how much buffering capacity the water has. You might ask, > "buffering" > against what? The KH buffers against the influences of acids in trying to > act against these acids dropping the pH. The higher the KH, the greater > the > buffering capacity of preventing the pH from dropping by these acids. > While the carbonates of the KH are interacting with and combining with > these > hydrogen ions, the KH's buffering capacity is being used up (lowered), but > then > too, this influence is weakening the acid to stabilize the pH at a level > that's a compromise between them. > > Too low of a KH can become dangerous if additional acid compounds (caused > possibly by erroneously monitored organic processes, as an example) which > suddenly and unexpectedly build up can overwhelm it, causing a pH crash. > Erroneously monitored organic processes are those caused by poor and > inattentive > attention to the balance of one's aquarium, insufficient PWCing and > overfeeding being only a couple of them. > > GH is often expressed either in "degrees" or in ":ppm" (parts per > million), > with one (1) dGH (degrees General Hardness, or degrees German Hardness) > equalling approximately 17.8 ppm. Your 10 dGH is moderately hard, but not > so > much as to affect most fishes. Hope I've made this understandable. If not, > please ask me to clarify anything still not clear. > > Ray > > </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54695	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/12/2013
Subject: Re: A beautiful documentory.....

Thanks for sharing Harry, I've been waiting for some spare time to watch this & I wasn't disappointed! John*<o)))<* On 1 May 2013 01:59, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Enjoy. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzJU810AIk&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54696	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi John I'll make it smaller . . . KH is about how much acid is needed to make the water reach a pH neutral of 7.0 GH is about how much Calcium and Magnesium is in the water or how "Hard" the water is. pH is a value about how acid or caustic the water is. 7.00 is neutral, pH 14 is the highest value water will go caustic, pH 0 is as highest acidic value water will go. Now if you re-read Ray's letter and still have questions, I am sure we can give you an answer you will understand. There are several interrelated parts to this water chemistry thing. Charles H > I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of >water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. >I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each >result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to >understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it >so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my >constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. > > John<o)))< >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54697	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Charles, Thank you for that as it is quite hard to figure! For some time now I have been puzzling about the GH & KH so I thought it was about time I made the effort to understand what it all meant rather than just measuring my water & getting meaningless results. You say KH is how much acid is needed to make the water pH neutral 7.0 so how is my KH 5 when my pH is 7.8 & my GH is 10? John*<o)))<* On 13 May 2013 20:24, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John > I'll make it smaller . . . > > KH is about how much acid is needed to make the water reach a pH neutral > of 7.0 > > GH is about how much Calcium and Magnesium is in the water or how > "Hard" the water is. > > pH is a value about how acid or caustic the water is. 7.00 is > neutral, pH 14 is the highest value water will go caustic, pH 0 is as > highest acidic value water will go. > > Now if you re-read Ray's letter and still have questions, I am sure > we can give you an answer you will understand. There are several > interrelated parts to this water chemistry thing. > > Charles H > > > I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of > >water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. > >I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each > >result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to > >understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it > >so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my > >constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. > > > > John<o)))< > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54698	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/13/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

That means that there is a lot of acid necessary to move your pH to acid and great for your system. Buffering is then another concept you need to understand. Your water has a great buffer compactly so the change in pH is stable as long as you keep the water the same. That means a lot of water changes or just frequent changes of 20 to 60% once a week. Your water will remain stable at the same pH and that is what matters the most. All the other chemicals in the water stays safe when you keep your water fresh. Charles H > Thank you for that as it is quite hard to figure! For some time now I >have been puzzling about the GH & KH so I thought it was about time I made >the effort to understand what it all meant rather than just measuring my >water & getting meaningless results. > >You say KH is how much acid is needed to make the water pH neutral 7.0 so >how is my KH 5 when my pH is 7.8 & my GH is 10? > > John*<o)))<* > > >On 13 May 2013 20:24, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi John >> I'll make it smaller . . . >> >> KH is about how much acid is needed to make the water reach a pH neutral >> of 7.0 >> >> GH is about how much Calcium and Magnesium is in the water or how >> "Hard" the water is. >> >> pH is a value about how acid or caustic the water is. 7.00 is >> neutral, pH 14 is the highest value water will go caustic, pH 0 is as >> highest acidic value water will go. >> >> Now if you re-read Ray's letter and still have questions, I am sure >> we can give you an answer you will understand. There are several >> interrelated parts to this water chemistry thing. >> >> Charles H >> >> > I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of >> >water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. >> >I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each >> >result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to >> >understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it >> >so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my >> >constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. >> > >> > John<o)))< >> > >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ¥Ø` .½½.><((((†>. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½><((((†> ½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..><((((†> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject >(was re: old subject)" <- ><†((((><. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½<†((((><½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..<†((((>< ¥Ø` .½½. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 >posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post >replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54699	From: Patrick	Date: 5/14/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > have been puzzling about the GH & KH so I thought it was about time I made > the effort to understand what it all meant rather than just measuring my > water & getting meaningless results. > > You say KH is how much acid is needed to make the water pH neutral 7.0 so > how is my KH 5 when my pH is 7.8 & my GH is 10? Hi John, One thing to keep in mind is that normally naturally occurring waters will have GH and KH more or less in sync with one another. In other words, if the water is higher in one it will likely be higher in the other and if water is very low in one it usually is for the other. So seeing that your water is a GH of 10 I would expect your KH to be on the higher side as well, which it is at 5 and I would also expect an alkaline pH which it is, so your water looks normal. You have somewhat harder water with an alkaline pH and enough buffering (KH) to resist changes to the pH going down (it would take a fair amount of acid to bring your pH down). Your water is probably rather stable. On the flip side, if someone had water with a very low GH and KH (say 0-2 readings) I would also expect an acidic pH and also I would expect that the pH could easily drop very low if there wasn't much KH to offset the acidifying of the water from normal biological processes. So this water is soft, acidic and also prone to pH crashes. So you would either want to keep up frequent partial water changes and/or maybe add something to buffer the water a bit (increase the KH) to help offset these pH shifts. It is when those two values (GH and KH) are very different from each other that you should be concerned when talking about aquariums. For example, a very low GH ("soft" water) with a high KH (lots of buffering) would probably indicate the water is artificially high in pH. Something that is often done by water suppliers to reduce the acidity of the water to prevent corrosion of the water supply infrastructure and to reduce leaching of things into the water (for example old systems with lots of lead pipes still in use). For most of the fish we keep, "soft" water with a high pH is not normal, the pH will probably crash when the KH gets used up, and often this water is not "soft" to the fish as the water with an artificially high KH is heavy in ions. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54700	From: Amber	Date: 5/14/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

While we're on this topic I thought I'd ask some questions about KH and GH myself. I know what they are and what they do, I was just wondering if other people out there use rainwater for their tanks? I just recently moved and where I moved to I am no longer on city provided water and I have rainwater. My pH is the same as my in town water, but I have almost no KH and GH in my water which isn't much less than in the city (because the city adds it to the water to keep the pipes from rusting, along with the chloramines, but they add a kind that evaporates quickly or something). I have crushed coral in my filter to help keep the KH/GH/pH stable, are there any other things I need to be aware of with rainwater? Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54701	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Amber, It's good to know your pH of your rainwater is the same as your previously used city water. At least, that should be some comfort in knowing what to expect from your water short-term. If you've indicated in the past what your city water pH is, I don't remember it so I really don't know now what your rainwater's pH is, but I'm guessing your city water was probably on the alkaline side since most water companies prefer to distribute it this way to preserve their infrastructure -- and you did say they add hardening compounds to boost their KH and GH (which can raise the pH). With your rainwater having less KH and GH, the pH won't remain as stable, and can drop much faster under the influence of the nitrification process (which acidifies water). While you mention using crushed coral in your filter, you don't say what your KH and GH actually is with this calcium compound slowly dissolving in your water. To know how much faster your pH may drop -- if it will drop any faster at all (and it may not drop faster, with the crushed coral being present, depending how much is used) -- we need to know what the values of your KH and GH are, in numbers. Then too, I can't recall exactly what kinds of fish you have, although I think you said some years back that you have a large Pleco (but I could be wrong). The kinds of fish you have would indicate how hard your water should be in terms of Total Hardness, or even if you need much higher KH/Temporary Hardness water at all, but you should have at least an adequate KH to prevent pH crash. Again, not knowing if this could occur without knowing these parameters, we need to know the KH and GH levels. Crushed coral (such as Caribsea's "Aragonite," as an example) is good in boosting the KH, and more of it rather than less is even better if you have fish that will do well in hard water, but when having soft water fish, less of this would be better in combination with a pH buffer -- such as Seachem's Alkaline Buffer, or Caribsea's "Aragamight," a powdered coral additive that dissolves faster and maintains a more stable KH -- at a lower level -- rather than having the KH fluctuate. When using crushed coral and when making PWC's, since crushed coral does not dissolve immediately, when replacing new rainwater for the old water being removed, he KH will drop temporarily (until more is dissolved) unless a readily dissolved source of calcium carbonite (like Aragamight, or a pre-dissolved Buffer solution) is added to the water at this time to retain the KH. Actually, if having all soft-water-loving fish, one needn't use crushed coral at all, although the KH will still need to be maintained at a level high enough to prevent a pH crash, but this can be done with using just buffer additives. Besides needing to maintain a sufficient KH to prevent pH crash, a very small amount of salt may be added to the water to raise the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids); all water used for fish needing some such minerals. Water totally devoid of minerals will otherwise leach them over time from the fish themselves, removing the calcium from the fish's bones when used too pure. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54702	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Patrick & Charles, That's reassuring to know my water is stable & yes my water supply is very hard, my taps get hard calcium deposits around them & it is difficult to lather soap in the bathroom.One of the first things I remember from starting out fish keeping was a stable pH, even if not exactly the textbook level for the fish was far more important than letting it fluctuate trying to get it right with additives. Charles-regarding your suggestion of 20-60% water changes weekly, It's difficult to calculate my exact volume of water because of the displacement by the decor, gravel plants, substrate & fish but my best calculations give me in excess of 110 UK gallons of actual water circulating in the system. It's also difficult to calculate exactly how much % of water I'm changing on a weekly basis because I don't change it all in one go, rather I change 25% every couple of days so it follows that by my changing another 25% 2 days later it doesn't mean I've changed 40% in that time because the original 25% will have become diluted within the whole volume by the time of the next PWC. But at any rate I think I should still be well within your suggested parameters at the end of each 7 day period! John*<o)))<* On 14 May 2013 04:16, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > That means that there is a lot of acid necessary > to move your pH to acid and great for your system. > > Buffering is then another concept you need to > understand. Your water has a great buffer > compactly so the change in pH is stable as long > as you keep the water the same. That means a lot > of water changes or just frequent changes of 20 > to 60% once a week. Your water will remain > stable at the same pH and that is what matters > the most. All the other chemicals in the water > stays safe when you keep your water fresh. > > Charles H > > > > Thank you for that as it is quite hard to figure! For some time now I > >have been puzzling about the GH & KH so I thought it was about time I made > >the effort to understand what it all meant rather than just measuring my > >water & getting meaningless results. > > > >You say KH is how much acid is needed to make the water pH neutral 7.0 so > >how is my KH 5 when my pH is 7.8 & my GH is 10? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > >On 13 May 2013 20:24, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > > >> > >> > >> Hi John > >> I'll make it smaller . . . > >> > >> KH is about how much acid is needed to make the water reach a pH neutral > >> of 7.0 > >> > >> GH is about how much Calcium and Magnesium is in the water or how > >> "Hard" the water is. > >> > >> pH is a value about how acid or caustic the water is. 7.00 is > >> neutral, pH 14 is the highest value water will go caustic, pH 0 is as > >> highest acidic value water will go. > >> > >> Now if you re-read Ray's letter and still have questions, I am sure > >> we can give you an answer you will understand. There are several > >> interrelated parts to this water chemistry thing. > >> > >> Charles H > >> > >> > I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of > >> >water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. > >> >I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each > >> >result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to > >> >understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it > >> >so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my > >> >constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. > >> > > >> > John<o)))< > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > >AquaticLife … A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > >…¥Ø`….½½.><((((†>.…¥Ø`….½½.…¥Ø`….½><((((†> ½.…¥Ø`….½. , .…¥Ø`…..><((((†> > > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all > >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if > >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message > >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject > >(was re: old subject)" <- > ><†((((><.…¥Ø`….½½.…¥Ø`….½<†((((><½.…¥Ø`….½. , .…¥Ø`…..<†((((><…¥Ø`….½½. > > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, > >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your > >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My > >Membership" on the home page. > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to > >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 > >posts at a time in a single email > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for > >the No E-Mail option where you will still be > >able to read messages on the group and post > >replies. > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to > >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54703	From: Amber	Date: 5/15/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Ray :) I don't have the test results for the KH and GH just yet (I forgot the rest of my test kit at the condo and still have to go get it, oops). Not finished moving completely, some of my tanks are still at the condo, for now I set up a 45 gallon (tall) at the house and only moved a BN pleco and 4 (juvi) sword tails, and a few assassin snails. I wanted to move just a few fish and make sure everything was okay before I brought out ALL of my tanks. I will get you the KH and GH ASAP, I promise. The pH tested at 6.6-6.7 here at the house (but I want to retest it with my API test kit, not the one that was here at the house, just to make sure it was still good) and that's within .1 of what my pH always tested in town on city water. It was usually closer to 6.9 right out of the tap in town but when the water stabilized it was usually back to 6.8. They don't add very much to the water to buffer it and I was told it was only a temporary buffer and usually dissolves or evaporates quickly (not sure what it does but it gets used up pretty quickly, it must be similar to baking soda I would assume). I have mixed community fish for the most part that prefer the pH range of 6-7, I try not to get fish that like higher pH because of my soft water. I have a few varieties of Coryadoras, lots of BN plecos, Swordtails, Platy's (both in separate tanks so they don't inter-breed), Giant danio's, Angel Fish, 2 clown loaches, botia kubotia loaches, neons and cardinal tetras, black skirt tetras, upside down catfish, and a san raphael talking catfish (I think that's the name of it, lol). Don't worry these are all in several different tanks, not all in one ;) Amber On 5/15/2013 5:13 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > It's good to know your pH of your rainwater is the same as your > previously > used city water. At least, that should be some comfort in knowing what to > expect from your water short-term. If you've indicated in the past > what your > city water pH is, I don't remember it so I really don't know now what > your > rainwater's pH is, but I'm guessing your city water was probably on the > alkaline side since most water companies prefer to distribute it this > way to > preserve their infrastructure -- and you did say they add hardening > compounds > to boost their KH and GH (which can raise the pH). > > With your rainwater having less KH and GH, the pH won't remain as stable, > and can drop much faster under the influence of the nitrification process > (which acidifies water). While you mention using crushed coral in your > filter, > you don't say what your KH and GH actually is with this calcium compound > slowly dissolving in your water. To know how much faster your pH may > drop -- > if it will drop any faster at all (and it may not drop faster, with the > crushed coral being present, depending how much is used) -- we need to > know what > the values of your KH and GH are, in numbers. > > Then too, I can't recall exactly what kinds of fish you have, although I > think you said some years back that you have a large Pleco (but I > could be > wrong). The kinds of fish you have would indicate how hard your water > should > be in terms of Total Hardness, or even if you need much higher > KH/Temporary > Hardness water at all, but you should have at least an adequate KH to > prevent > pH crash. Again, not knowing if this could occur without knowing these > parameters, we need to know the KH and GH levels. > > Crushed coral (such as Caribsea's "Aragonite," as an example) is good in > boosting the KH, and more of it rather than less is even better if you > have > fish that will do well in hard water, but when having soft water fish, > less of > this would be better in combination with a pH buffer -- such as Seachem's > Alkaline Buffer, or Caribsea's "Aragamight," a powdered coral additive > that > dissolves faster and maintains a more stable KH -- at a lower level -- > rather > than having the KH fluctuate. > > When using crushed coral and when making PWC's, since crushed coral does > not dissolve immediately, when replacing new rainwater for the old > water being > removed, he KH will drop temporarily (until more is dissolved) unless a > readily dissolved source of calcium carbonite (like Aragamight, or a > pre-dissolved Buffer solution) is added to the water at this time to > retain the KH. > > Actually, if having all soft-water-loving fish, one needn't use crushed > coral at all, although the KH will still need to be maintained at a > level high > enough to prevent a pH crash, but this can be done with using just buffer > additives. Besides needing to maintain a sufficient KH to prevent pH > crash, a > very small amount of salt may be added to the water to raise the TDS > (Total > Dissolved Solids); all water used for fish needing some such minerals. > Water totally devoid of minerals will otherwise leach them over time > from the > fish themselves, removing the calcium from the fish's bones when used too > pure. > > Ray > > </HTML> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54704	From: rachell7	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Can I use these in my tank?

I found a cute ceramic set of row houses at our local thrift store - it's a napkin holder, a butter dish and salt and pepper set. They are completely glazed, nothing great, probably just a inexpensive set that was sold to tourists, I'm thinking the bay area, possibly SF, since it reminds me of some of the stuff I've seen sold there. I'd like to use it in my aquarium, but hesitate to just toss anything in until I run it by someone more experienced. The only two pieces i want to use are the napkin holder and the upper part of the butter dish. It looks like the set was never used, only displayed and there are no chips or cracks. I have washed everything thoroughly, is there anything I should do before placing them in the tank with my fish? Fish are redwags and a algae eater. Thanks! Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54705	From: rachell7	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Wow, that was quite a explanation and I had no idea how important a issue this is! Thanks for explaining that! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi John, > > This is a good question, and one that most every hobbyist should understand > to be able to know more about one's water chemistry and how changes may > affect it. Neither KH nor GH is directly dependant upon the temperature, > although the temperature may be partially responsible for the pH -- depending > upon what other substances are in the water. > > While I won't go into all that chemistry, since it doesn't directly involve > this question, to put things simply, KH is the measure of carbonate > hardness (temporary hardness -- buffering capacity); it's also a "base" (as opposed > to an acid) and may be expressed as a level of "alkalinity," not to be > confused with the term "alkaline" as an expression of pH. GH or General > Hardness, also at times called TH or Total Hardness, is a measure of all hardness > influences including KH. > > As the elements Calcium and Magnesium are what causes water to be "hard," > carbonate hardness is the result of how much calcium carbonate or magnesium > carbonate compounds are present in the water; these may be in the form of > "carbonate" or as "bicarbonate," the latter being less stable. In combination > with other hardening compounds such as Magnesium Sulfate (or Calcium > Sulfate), etc., a measure of GH is obtained. I also won't go into other hardening > agents such as aldehyde compounds as they're not related to aquaria issues. > > As for KH, it's not the carbonate part of it that makes the water hard. but > these certain metals (Calcium and Magnesium) -- just as these same metals > add to the GH as Sulfate compounds of these metals -- but these carbonate and > bicarbonate compounds chemically react to Hydrogen ions, affecting the pH > (pH is a measure of free Hydrogen ions in the water, with the greater amount > of them causing a lower pH while a lesser amount of them adversely causing a > higher pH -- not the other way around, as some tend to think). > > I'm trying to explain this slowly, as I go along, but please feel free to > ask any questions after digesting this. Now, getting back to the KH (and the > pH you asked about), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH are interdependant upon > each other, but if you want to ask which one "affects" the other, it's more > like the pH is affected by the KH to start with -- when considering the > KH's initial value -- but after they interact, they're both affected. I'll try > to explain this below, as it's easier said than understood by others, but > essentially with a KH of 5 as an example (which yours is), if an acid were > added to your water to drop your pH to 7.2, this action in increased > buffering against this new acid would reduce your KH. Before going any further > though, the GH is not affected by the pH, as the same amount of hardening metals > will always be present regardless of the interaction of the KH and pH. > > Okay, now as for the interaction of the KH and pH, as I said, the KH level > shows how much buffering capacity the water has. You might ask, "buffering" > against what? The KH buffers against the influences of acids in trying to > act against these acids dropping the pH. The higher the KH, the greater the > buffering capacity of preventing the pH from dropping by these acids. > While the carbonates of the KH are interacting with and combining with these > hydrogen ions, the KH's buffering capacity is being used up (lowered), but then > too, this influence is weakening the acid to stabilize the pH at a level > that's a compromise between them. > > Too low of a KH can become dangerous if additional acid compounds (caused > possibly by erroneously monitored organic processes, as an example) which > suddenly and unexpectedly build up can overwhelm it, causing a pH crash. > Erroneously monitored organic processes are those caused by poor and inattentive > attention to the balance of one's aquarium, insufficient PWCing and > overfeeding being only a couple of them. > > GH is often expressed either in "degrees" or in ":ppm" (parts per million), > with one (1) dGH (degrees General Hardness, or degrees German Hardness) > equalling approximately 17.8 ppm. Your 10 dGH is moderately hard, but not so > much as to affect most fishes. Hope I've made this understandable. If not, > please ask me to clarify anything still not clear. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54706	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Hi Rachell, As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no chips or cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing has been made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's not the baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years ago included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a certain color although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know that this metal was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery is still being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in part on where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if this ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that it is); inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported from countries not having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard of lead being discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in China -- where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap production? Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54707	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/16/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Rachell, The explanation I gave on the relationship between KH, GH and pH was my pleasure; you're most welcome. While it sounds like you understood it, please let me know if there's anything not clear. Yes, water chemistry is not as simple as it might at first appear. The better you understand it, the easier it will be to keep your fishes. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54708	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Hi Rachell, Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced ornaments *for * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they include toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to get stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly vigilant. I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people would not even think twice about using something in their tanks just because it looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! John*<o)))<* On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Rachell, > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no chips > or > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing has been > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's not the > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years ago > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a certain > color > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know that this > metal > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery is still > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in part on > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if this > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that it is); > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported from > countries not > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard of lead > being > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in China -- > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap production? > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54709	From: Amber	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? Amber On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > Hi Rachell, > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > ornaments *for > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they include > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to get > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly vigilant. > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people would > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just because it > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > John*<o)))<* > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@... > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no chips > > or > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing has > been > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > not the > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years ago > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a certain > > color > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know that this > > metal > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery is > still > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in part on > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if this > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that it > is); > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported from > > countries not > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard of lead > > being > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in China -- > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap production? > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54710	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: How can I keep my fish tank cool?

Dear Friends, Need your immediate support. I have 120 Gallon tank with Red Belly Piranha's inside. These days the temperature in Pakistan is getting too hot. My aquarium temperature is around 32-33 Degree Centigrade. The tank is not near window or direct sunlight. What should I do to keep the temperature low & what should be the ideal / best temperature for Red Belly Piranha. Best Regards, Faisal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54711	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?

If you have enough freezer space, I float frozen tank water in tupperwear containers in my tanks; I also live in a climate of extremes. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Need your immediate support. > > I have 120 Gallon tank with Red Belly Piranha's inside. These days the > temperature in Pakistan is getting too hot. My aquarium temperature is > around 32-33 Degree Centigrade. The tank is not near window or direct > sunlight. > > What should I do to keep the temperature low & what should be the ideal / > best temperature for Red Belly Piranha. > > Best Regards, > Faisal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54712	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Two words, oh now eight, oops. :-)>>> "spar varnish." --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to > seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? > > Amber > > On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > > ornaments *for > > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they include > > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to get > > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly vigilant. > > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people would > > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just because it > > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@... > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no chips > > > or > > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing has > > been > > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > > not the > > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years ago > > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a certain > > > color > > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know that this > > > metal > > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery is > > still > > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in part on > > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if this > > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that it > > is); > > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported from > > > countries not > > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard of lead > > > being > > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in China -- > > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap production? > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54713	From: Amber	Date: 5/17/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Just an update, our rainwater has some KH and GH afterall, I figured it would have almost none. GH was 75 and KH was 120 Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54714	From: Noura	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?

I usually go to a similar solution, I fill three (1 litre) plastic coke bottles with regular tap water, and float one of them (With the bottle still tightly closed) in the tank for 2-3 hours, then rinse it and freeze it back. But this will hardly change anything in a 125 gallon tank, it barely drops my 20 G temperature by 2 degrees. However, if you have plenty of free room in your freezer, you can try freezing more and bigger bottles to use in the hottest days. I also keep the tank's lid open and the lights turned off , and a high/ceiling fan turned on close to the water surface, that's if the fan was not needed by another family member J I was told to perform frequent water changes, using a cooler water, but I rarely have time/energy in the middle of the day when the temperature is the highest and the cooling procedures are most needed! At that time, I –myself - would be in need of "cooling first aid", oops..! Especially in the power rationing hours (8-12 hours/day in our Syrian Summer). Good luck.. to both of us! Noura - Syria From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:05 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool? If you have enough freezer space, I float frozen tank water in tupperwear containers in my tanks; I also live in a climate of extremes. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Need your immediate support. > > I have 120 Gallon tank with Red Belly Piranha's inside. These days the > temperature in Pakistan is getting too hot. My aquarium temperature is > around 32-33 Degree Centigrade. The tank is not near window or direct > sunlight. > > What should I do to keep the temperature low & what should be the ideal / > best temperature for Red Belly Piranha. > > Best Regards, > Faisal > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54715	From: Patrick	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber wrote: > Just an update, our rainwater has some KH and GH afterall, > I figured it would have almost none. > GH was 75 and KH was 120 I assume that is in ppm (parts per million)? That seems very high for rain water. So how is it you are collecting it? Run off from a roof or something of that sort? Rain water should be soft and usually a bit acidic. Did you measure the pH? Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54716	From: Amber	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Yes they are ppm, it's run off from a roof and it collects in a cement reservoir in the basement which is then filtered then pumped through the house. It's a 30 year old roof (needs replaced) so that could be part it, there's moss all over the roof, but I don't see moss as adding hardness, it should be using it up like any other plant would. I also expected the water to be a lot softer myself. The pH was 6.6-6.7 from what I could tell. Amber On 5/18/2013 8:46 AM, Patrick wrote: > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber wrote: > > Just an update, our rainwater has some KH and GH afterall, > > I figured it would have almost none. > > GH was 75 and KH was 120 > > I assume that is in ppm (parts per million)? > > That seems very high for rain water. So how is it you are collecting > it? Run off from a roof or something of that sort? Rain water should > be soft and usually a bit acidic. Did you measure the pH? > > Patrick > > __._,_ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54717	From: rachell7	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Thank you everyone! John and Ray, you are both right re: the use of toxic substances in the glaze, I had not thought about! These don't look very old and they aren't expensive china either. So I feel that as both of you have pointed out, they were probably made in another country that doesn't have the standards we have here. I know lead is banned here but so much of the pottery and china sold in the stores today are from countries that use lead in their glaze. So as Al and Amber suggested, would covering them with spar varnish be a safe option? I've never used spar varnish before! So what would I need to look for! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Two words, oh now eight, oops. :-)>>> > "spar varnish." > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to > > seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? > > > > Amber > > > > On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > > > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > > > ornaments *for > > > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they include > > > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to get > > > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly vigilant. > > > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people would > > > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just because it > > > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@ > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no chips > > > > or > > > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing has > > > been > > > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > > > not the > > > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years ago > > > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a certain > > > > color > > > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know that this > > > > metal > > > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery is > > > still > > > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in part on > > > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if this > > > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that it > > > is); > > > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported from > > > > countries not > > > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard of lead > > > > being > > > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in China -- > > > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap production? > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54718	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?

Hi Faisal, Warm water contains less oxygen than cold water so turning up the air pump &/or increasing the out flow from your filter[s] a little are other options to give your fish some relief during the hot weather. The more water movement there is at the surface the more oxygen will be transferred to the water. John*<o)))<* On 18 May 2013 09:01, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > I usually go to a similar solution, I fill three (1 litre) plastic coke > bottles with regular tap water, and float one of them (With the bottle > still > tightly closed) in the tank for 2-3 hours, then rinse it and freeze it > back. > But this will hardly change anything in a 125 gallon tank, it barely drops > my 20 G temperature by 2 degrees. However, if you have plenty of free room > in your freezer, you can try freezing more and bigger bottles to use in the > hottest days. > > I also keep the tank's lid open and the lights turned off , and a > high/ceiling fan turned on close to the water surface, that's if the fan > was > not needed by another family member J > > I was told to perform frequent water changes, using a cooler water, but I > rarely have time/energy in the middle of the day when the temperature is > the > highest and the cooling procedures are most needed! At that time, I �myself > - would be in need of "cooling first aid", oops..! Especially in the power > rationing hours (8-12 hours/day in our Syrian Summer). > > Good luck.. to both of us! > > Noura - Syria > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:05 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool? > > > If you have enough freezer space, I float frozen tank water in tupperwear > containers in my tanks; I also live in a climate of extremes. > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > > Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > Need your immediate support. > > > > I have 120 Gallon tank with Red Belly Piranha's inside. These days the > > temperature in Pakistan is getting too hot. My aquarium temperature is > > around 32-33 Degree Centigrade. The tank is not near window or direct > > sunlight. > > > > What should I do to keep the temperature low & what should be the ideal / > > best temperature for Red Belly Piranha. > > > > Best Regards, > > Faisal > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54719	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Hello again Rachell, I'm afraid I cannot help with the varnish query, I have never had any dealings with anything similar myself although I believe some top-end gravels are covered in an inert layer of something similar. John*<o)))< * On 18 May 2013 22:27, rachell7 <rachell7@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank you everyone! John and Ray, you are both right re: the use of toxic > substances in the glaze, I had not thought about! These don't look very old > and they aren't expensive china either. So I feel that as both of you have > pointed out, they were probably made in another country that doesn't have > the standards we have here. I know lead is banned here but so much of the > pottery and china sold in the stores today are from countries that use lead > in their glaze. > > So as Al and Amber suggested, would covering them with spar varnish be a > safe option? I've never used spar varnish before! So what would I need to > look for! > Rachell > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > Two words, oh now eight, oops. :-)>>> > > "spar varnish." > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to > > > seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > > > > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > > > > ornaments *for > > > > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they > include > > > > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to > get > > > > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly > vigilant. > > > > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people > would > > > > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just > because it > > > > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@ > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no > chips > > > > > or > > > > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing > has > > > > been > > > > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > > > > not the > > > > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years > ago > > > > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a > certain > > > > > color > > > > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know > that this > > > > > metal > > > > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery > is > > > > still > > > > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in > part on > > > > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if > this > > > > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that > it > > > > is); > > > > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported > from > > > > > countries not > > > > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard > of lead > > > > > being > > > > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in > China -- > > > > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap > production? > > > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54720	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/18/2013
Subject: Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Spar varnish is what they use to seal wooden boats. you can get it at most hardware stores or boat/marine places. I've used it for over a year with success on rocks I wanted to use, but turned out to be limestone. years ago people had to make their own fish tanks; and before there was silicone readily available to use, they sealed the glass where they joined with spar varnish. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hello again Rachell, > > I'm afraid I cannot help with the varnish query, I have never had any > dealings with anything similar myself although I believe some top-end > gravels are covered in an inert layer of something similar. > > John*<o)))< > * > > > On 18 May 2013 22:27, rachell7 <rachell7@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Thank you everyone! John and Ray, you are both right re: the use of toxic > > substances in the glaze, I had not thought about! These don't look very old > > and they aren't expensive china either. So I feel that as both of you have > > pointed out, they were probably made in another country that doesn't have > > the standards we have here. I know lead is banned here but so much of the > > pottery and china sold in the stores today are from countries that use lead > > in their glaze. > > > > So as Al and Amber suggested, would covering them with spar varnish be a > > safe option? I've never used spar varnish before! So what would I need to > > look for! > > Rachell > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > Two words, oh now eight, oops. :-)>>> > > > "spar varnish." > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to > > > > seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > > > > > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > > > > > ornaments *for > > > > > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they > > include > > > > > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to > > get > > > > > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly > > vigilant. > > > > > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people > > would > > > > > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just > > because it > > > > > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@ > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no > > chips > > > > > > or > > > > > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing > > has > > > > > been > > > > > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > > > > > not the > > > > > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years > > ago > > > > > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a > > certain > > > > > > color > > > > > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know > > that this > > > > > > metal > > > > > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery > > is > > > > > still > > > > > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in > > part on > > > > > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if > > this > > > > > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that > > it > > > > > is); > > > > > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported > > from > > > > > > countries not > > > > > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard > > of lead > > > > > > being > > > > > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in > > China -- > > > > > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap > > production? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54721	From: rachell7	Date: 5/20/2013
Subject: Thank You! Re: Can I use these in my tank?

Thanks! Everyone pointed some things that I had not thought about and I think I will pass on putting the ceramics in my tank for now. If I do, I will coat them with the spar varnish but then I'll worry about my algae eater. Thank you everyone! You have all been a great help! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Spar varnish is what they use to seal wooden boats. you can get it at most hardware stores or boat/marine places. I've used it for over a year with success on rocks I wanted to use, but turned out to be limestone. years ago people had to make their own fish tanks; and before there was silicone readily available to use, they sealed the glass where they joined with spar varnish. > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hello again Rachell, > > > > I'm afraid I cannot help with the varnish query, I have never had any > > dealings with anything similar myself although I believe some top-end > > gravels are covered in an inert layer of something similar. > > > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > > > > On 18 May 2013 22:27, rachell7 <rachell7@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Thank you everyone! John and Ray, you are both right re: the use of toxic > > > substances in the glaze, I had not thought about! These don't look very old > > > and they aren't expensive china either. So I feel that as both of you have > > > pointed out, they were probably made in another country that doesn't have > > > the standards we have here. I know lead is banned here but so much of the > > > pottery and china sold in the stores today are from countries that use lead > > > in their glaze. > > > > > > So as Al and Amber suggested, would covering them with spar varnish be a > > > safe option? I've never used spar varnish before! So what would I need to > > > look for! > > > Rachell > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Two words, oh now eight, oops. :-)>>> > > > > "spar varnish." > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > What about covering them in a 2 part epoxy (or something similar?) to > > > > > seal in anything that could be harmfully and leach into the water? > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 5/17/2013 2:03 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray has made a very good point about the toxic substances used in > > > > > > pottery-I would add that there are also some cheaply produced > > > > > > ornaments *for > > > > > > * aquariums that are still dangerous to your fish because they > > > include > > > > > > toxic materials & paints plus the danger of small holes for fish to > > > get > > > > > > stuck in & sharp or protruding edges so we have to be constantly > > > vigilant. > > > > > > I think you are a very responsible fish keeper because many people > > > would > > > > > > not even think twice about using something in their tanks just > > > because it > > > > > > looked appealing-your fish are lucky to have you! > > > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 May 2013 05:36, <sevenspringss@ > > > > > > <mailto:sevenspringss%40wmconnect.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As you stressed that these items are completely glazed and have no > > > chips > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > cracks, it sounds like since the material underneath the glazing > > > has > > > > > > been > > > > > > > made safe for fish, you feel fairly safe with using it.. But, it's > > > > > > not the > > > > > > > baked clay that you need to be concerned about. Much glazing years > > > ago > > > > > > > included the use of arsenic in it -- I believe, to bring out a > > > certain > > > > > > > color > > > > > > > although right now I can't be completely sure why. I just know > > > that this > > > > > > > metal > > > > > > > was used in glazing What I don't know though, is how much pottery > > > is > > > > > > still > > > > > > > being made with arsenic in the glazing, but this may depend in > > > part on > > > > > > > where it was made. I really wouldn't trust it to be safe, even if > > > this > > > > > > > ingredient has been banned in this country (and I don't know that > > > it > > > > > > is); > > > > > > > inexpensive pottery such as you're describing is often imported > > > from > > > > > > > countries not > > > > > > > having as strick of laws as we do. How many times have you heard > > > of lead > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > discovered in toys meant for children here, but manufactered in > > > China -- > > > > > > > where more and more things are being farmed out to for cheap > > > production? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54722	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/21/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Amber, Just now saw your post form last Friday, as my computer quit (and was not able to ge up on line). I'm using an old computer now, that is very shakey and may not even be up on line very long, but I see you have some hardness in you water. It appears those numbers are ppm -- parts per million. Not too bad. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54723	From: Amber	Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

I'm just confused how my rainwater has hardness in it. I've thoroughly questioned my boyfriend about the system and how it works and how it's filtered, etc. (His parents built the house about 30 years ago). The rain collects from the roof through the gutter system (the roof is very mossy and needs replaced and some of the gutters probably need cleaned out too). It collects into the tank which is built under the house in the basement. It's a cement (HUGE) tank, it has a house filter that filters it before it is pumped up to the rest of the house. Is it normal for rainwater to have some KH and GH in it? I'm new to this whole rainwater system, I've been on city water most of my life, and as a small child we had a well. So I'm learning something new ;) Amber On 5/21/2013 6:27 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Amber, > > Just now saw your post form last Friday, as my computer quit (and was not > able to ge up on line). I'm using an old computer now, that is very > shakey > and may not even be up on line very long, but I see you have some > hardness in > you water. It appears those numbers are ppm -- parts per million. Not too > bad. > > Ray</HTML> > > __. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54724	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/22/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Amber, Your rainwater is picking up the hardness from the cement. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54725	From: cliffl	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: tropical shrimps

Would some EHEIM (12/16mm) 4004940 green polythene tubing which is 7cm long and 10mm bore be suitable to use as a shrimp shelter. cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54726	From: cliffl	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: New Member from UK

Hi everyone, am Cliff a pensioner in UK starting keeping fish again after many years, only got a tiny single bed flat and have just acquired a Fluval Edge 46ltr tank, and am busy setting it up, they are a great tank for a small space but very awkward to work with as only opening is a 12.5cm x 17.5cm opening in the top, put Fluval shrimp strata in ( wish i had not) as makes water very dirty with sediment even after following instructions and will be a pain taking ages to filter to get water. Regards,Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54727	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/25/2013
Subject: Re: New Member from UK

Hi Cliff, Welcome to the group & welcome back to the wonderful world of fish keeping! I know the tank you have as my friend has one similar & I agree they are quite fiddly to access because of the small opening but they do look very nice when they are up & running. I Googled the Fluval stratum as I had not heard of it but I see that it is a planting medium-have you planted it up yet & what fish/shrimps do you have/are you planning on getting? John*<o)))<* On 25 May 2013 18:01, cliffl <cliff.lambton@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi everyone, am Cliff a pensioner in UK starting keeping fish again after > many years, only got a tiny single bed flat and have just acquired a Fluval > Edge 46ltr tank, and am busy setting it up, they are a great tank for a > small space but very awkward to work with as only opening is a 12.5cm x > 17.5cm opening in the top, put Fluval shrimp strata in ( wish i had not) as > makes water very dirty with sediment even after following instructions and > will be a pain taking ages to filter to get water. Regards,Cliff. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54728	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Amber, Your rain water comes down acidic from absorbed CO2 and Nitrogen compounds. That dissolves the Concrete. Concrete is made up of Cement and Lime Stone and sand. The acidic rain dissolves the Lime Stone and Cement (Ca(OH)2*Ca cpds) and becomes water with "Hardness". It is how Caves develop Stalagmites and Stalactites etc. Charles H >I'm just confused how my rainwater has hardness in it. I've thoroughly >questioned my boyfriend about the system and how it works and how it's >filtered, etc. (His parents built the house about 30 years ago). >The rain collects from the roof through the gutter system (the roof is >very mossy and needs replaced and some of the gutters probably need >cleaned out too). It collects into the tank which is built under the >house in the basement. It's a cement (HUGE) tank, it has a house filter >that filters it before it is pumped up to the rest of the house. >Is it normal for rainwater to have some KH and GH in it? I'm new to this >whole rainwater system, I've been on city water most of my life, and as >a small child we had a well. So I'm learning something new ;) > >Amber > >On 5/21/2013 6:27 AM, sevenspringss@... wrote: >> >> Hi Amber, >> >> Just now saw your post form last Friday, as my computer quit (and was not >> able to ge up on line). I'm using an old computer now, that is very >> shakey >> and may not even be up on line very long, but I see you have some >> hardness in >> you water. It appears those numbers are ppm -- parts per million. Not too >> bad. >> >> Ray</HTML> >> >> __. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ¥Ø` .½½.><((((†>. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½><((((†> ½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..><((((†> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject >(was re: old subject)" <- ><†((((><. ¥Ø` .½½. ¥Ø` .½<†((((><½. ¥Ø` .½. , . ¥Ø` ..<†((((>< ¥Ø` .½½. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 >posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post >replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54729	From: cliffl	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New Member from UK

Hi John, Put in a 50w Fluval E heater which are brilliant, got it planted up with red and green plants, some plants like grass for bottom at front and a madagascar lace plant in the centre, just waiting for tank to clear again, have put two lots of foam only in filter till tank clears then put proper filter material in, going to put co2 in for plants, thinking of getting breeding pair of red banded shrimps a pair of red coral shrimps and 4/5 cardinal tetras to see how they get on. cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54730	From: cliffl	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

Hi lynn, Seen this no clean betta tank? web address is http://www.nocleanaquariums.com Regards,Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54731	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Charles, Thank you for adding to my comment to Amber posted last Wednesday (May 22nd) stating this same thing, that the cement in her basement cement reservoir is hardening her rainwater. While I didn't go into the chemical reactions of this process, not feeling it germain to the issue, your further input is appreciated. I'm not sure if we can use a blanket statement in her case however, of her generally having acid rain in Alaska, you're quite correct in that rainwater is on average acid -- anywhere down to 5.7 -- due in large part just to the CO2 in the air. For the reason that rain with a pH of 5.7 is the result now (as compared to 40 or so years ago) due only to the "natural" interaction of atmospheric CO2 -- which has increased in content in recent years -- meteorologist are describing "acid rain" as having a pH of 5.6 or below, although any slightly higher level would not have a dissimilar result. I won't go into the other contaminents (sulfers, hydrocarbons, etc.,) that are picked up by rain in areas of the country downwind of midwestern coal-fired generating plants as an example, such as on the East Coast, as not everyone encounters these extremes. Alaska however, may at times have relatively pristine rainfalls though, measuring between pH 6.9 and 7.1 -- but any water in contact with limestone/calcite (a Calcium source) in cement will dissolve it, albeit acid water will dissolve it faster. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54732	From: johnd	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: A Few Daphnia?

Does anyone know where I can get a few Daphnia? All I need is a few because I am putting them in a netted encloser in my tank to get rid of green water. They reproduce to as many as needed. Or, does any shop sell them north of Boston MA?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54733	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool?

Guys, Thanks for the suggestion. I have taken the following action: 1. Frozen Water Bottles in Tank. This does not help in 120 Gallon tank. 2. Open the lid & put one of the dedicated Pedestal Fan direction towards Aquarium top surface. This help me a lot. I have seen that temperature is now reduced to around 30-31 instead of 34 Degree. Next action Plan I am thinking of: 1. Use 4 Air stones in Water tank at different positions? Or 2. Power Head Filter? Please suggest that which option is good. NOTE: Currently I have 1 Big size Air Pump, 1 Small size Air Pump along with Under Gravel Filter in tank. If you guys have any other option, please assist. Regards, Faisal On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:41 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...>wrote: > Hi Faisal, > > Warm water contains less oxygen than cold water so turning up the air > pump &/or increasing the out flow from your filter[s] a little are other > options to give your fish some relief during the hot weather. The more > water movement there is at the surface the more oxygen will be transferred > to the water. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 18 May 2013 09:01, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I usually go to a similar solution, I fill three (1 litre) plastic coke > > bottles with regular tap water, and float one of them (With the bottle > > still > > tightly closed) in the tank for 2-3 hours, then rinse it and freeze it > > back. > > But this will hardly change anything in a 125 gallon tank, it barely > drops > > my 20 G temperature by 2 degrees. However, if you have plenty of free > room > > in your freezer, you can try freezing more and bigger bottles to use in > the > > hottest days. > > > > I also keep the tank's lid open and the lights turned off , and a > > high/ceiling fan turned on close to the water surface, that's if the fan > > was > > not needed by another family member J > > > > I was told to perform frequent water changes, using a cooler water, but I > > rarely have time/energy in the middle of the day when the temperature is > > the > > highest and the cooling procedures are most needed! At that time, I > �myself > > - would be in need of "cooling first aid", oops..! Especially in the > power > > rationing hours (8-12 hours/day in our Syrian Summer). > > > > Good luck.. to both of us! > > > > Noura - Syria > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:05 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How can I keep my fish tank cool? > > > > > > If you have enough freezer space, I float frozen tank water in tupperwear > > containers in my tanks; I also live in a climate of extremes. > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > > , > > > > Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > Need your immediate support. > > > > > > I have 120 Gallon tank with Red Belly Piranha's inside. These days the > > > temperature in Pakistan is getting too hot. My aquarium temperature is > > > around 32-33 Degree Centigrade. The tank is not near window or direct > > > sunlight. > > > > > > What should I do to keep the temperature low & what should be the > ideal / > > > best temperature for Red Belly Piranha. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Faisal > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54734	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

I have just watched that video on the link posted by Cliff & I have to say-that is an amazing idea & a fabulous piece of kit-however [here's the gripe] the tank is desperately small-even for a Betta, being tall rather than flat makes the gas transfer at the surface almost non-existent, the Betta didn't look particularly happy when the new water was poured in, selling any living creature as good for beginners because they are cheap is a bad message to be sending & there appears to be no filter. I would imagine that this idea could be worked up to a much larger system & then the gravitational process of pouring in new water which automatically decants the waste would be a very impressive innovation. Even better if that waste could be hard-plumbed into some pipework to water your houseplants! John*<o)))<* On 26 May 2013 11:29, cliffl <cliff.lambton@...> wrote: > ** > > > > Hi lynn, > Seen this no clean betta tank? web address is > http://www.nocleanaquariums.com > Regards,Cliff. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54735	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/26/2013
Subject: Goldfish Basics Care Guide

Hi Everyone, From time to time I get calls from Goldfish owners or potential Goldfish owners via my web site wanting some decent advice but unfortunately even with the best will in the world it is not humanly possible to follow all the instructions spoken over the phone unless you have a tape recorder handy. To remedy this I have forwarded the most excellent Goldfish Basic Care Guide page on the Goldfish Aquarium Board [GAB] site so they can simply bookmark/favorite the site & be able to use it whenever they want. The problem is, the entire GAB site now been taken offline so can anyone supply a good alternative beginner's Goldfish care page please? Not only was this page well written with excellent advice but also was short & concise, almost everything I have found so far is either complete nonsense or about a million words long! John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54736	From: Garry Peak	Date: 5/27/2013
Subject: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

Hi Guys, Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and never post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 months ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female guppies in it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is happy and healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended guidelines, as discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a school(s) of tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go with as far as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm thinking either a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. What sort of numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other than the 5 guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one catches my eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few small ottos. Thanks in advance! Garry Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in the end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh because it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem bright- Anonymous [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54737	From: Amber	Date: 5/27/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

Before you pick anything keep in mind that you don't want to add too many too fast. Add 3-5 fish MAX each time you add fish, and give the tank at least a week to build up the bacteria to match the new bioload, you might want to wait closer to 2 weeks if you want to make sure the tank is better stabilized. Do you have soft or hard water? what is you pH? This will help us suggest fish types for you. :) Amber On 5/27/2013 5:04 PM, Garry Peak wrote: > > Hi Guys, > Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and never > post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 months > ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female guppies in > it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is happy and > healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended guidelines, as > discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a school(s) of > tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go with as far > as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm thinking either > a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. What sort of > numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other than the 5 > guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one catches my > eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few small ottos. > Thanks in advance! > Garry > > Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in the > end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh because > it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem bright- > Anonymous > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54738	From: joe t	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

Hi, Everyone: First thing I have to say is John is correct. There is not enough surface space for any fish, not only the betta. Second it is really not fair to sucker in beginners that do not know better; but anything for a buck I guess. Third, there is no such thing __so far anyway__ as a completely maintenance free "tank". That is if you want to call the jar they are using "tank". The "special reservoir" they are touting is, in my language, the bottom of the vessel. The debris and any tank, goes to the bottom. My main thought is that soon there will be a buildup on the inside glass and there is only one way to clean that. You have to get in there and rub it off. So be careful what you buy. joe t - >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54739	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

I'd go for rummynose tetras. they are nice looking, and I think they school the best. As for male guppies, I gave up on them over a year ago, they're nasty, in my experience they just swim around trying to bully everyone else... even other kinds of fish much bigger than themselves, the females are nice pleasant community fish. Platys are a fish I would consider also, the females are nice and friendly... and just as colourfull as the males. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and never post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 months ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female guppies in it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is happy and healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended guidelines, as discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a school(s) of tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go with as far as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm thinking either a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. What sort of numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other than the 5 guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one catches my eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few small ottos. > Thanks in advance! > Garry > > > Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in the end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh because it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem bright- Anonymous > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54740	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

Good thinking Joe, the glass is going to get very green sooner or later. John*<o)))<* On 28 May 2013 15:49, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, Everyone: > First thing I have to say is John is correct. There is not enough surface > space for any fish, not only the betta. > > Second it is really not fair to sucker in beginners that do not know > better; but anything for a buck I guess. > > Third, there is no such thing __so far anyway__ as a completely > maintenance free "tank". That is if you want to call the jar they are using > "tank". > > The "special reservoir" they are touting is, in my language, the bottom of > the vessel. The debris and any tank, goes to the bottom. > > My main thought is that soon there will be a buildup on the inside glass > and there is only one way to clean that. You have to get in there and rub > it off. > > So be careful what you buy. > > joe t > > - > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54741	From: Amber	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

One thing about platy's to consider (I love them personally, but not everyone does). The females can change genders to male (but not back to female). So even if you buy all females for your tank you will end up with males eventually (survival instincts). They are very curious fish, always checking out the crevices and foraging for food. If you like Platy's you can also consider Swordtails, they are very closely related though, so don't keep them in the same tank as they can interbreed and mix the species. Amber On 5/28/2013 7:36 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > I'd go for rummynose tetras. they are nice looking, and I think they > school the best. As for male guppies, I gave up on them over a year > ago, they're nasty, in my experience they just swim around trying to > bully everyone else... even other kinds of fish much bigger than > themselves, the females are nice pleasant community fish. > Platys are a fish I would consider also, the females are nice and > friendly... and just as colourfull as the males. > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Garry Peak <peakie_au@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Guys, > > Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and > never post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 > months ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female > guppies in it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is > happy and healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended > guidelines, as discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a > school(s) of tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go > with as far as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm > thinking either a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. > What sort of numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other > than the 5 guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one > catches my eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few > small ottos. > > Thanks in advance! > > Garry > > > > > > Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in > the end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh > because it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem > bright- Anonymous > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Reply via web post > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGNkZzA4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--?act=reply&messageNum=54739> > Reply to sender > <mailto:al_keep_fish@...?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Litre%20Tank> > Reply to group > <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Litre%20Tank> > Start a New Topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWJjcjRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > Messages in this topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54736;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NWFlM2JoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQR0cGNJZAM1NDczNg--> > (3) > > Recent Activity: > > * New Members > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWlsOWNiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-?o=6> > 2 > * New Photos > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcm5sbDQzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-> > 2 > > Visit Your Group > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNXJnZHM4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54742	From: Al Keep	Date: 5/28/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

Yikes... changing sex without surgery... I have 6 females and one male; with that ratio he's busy enough that he doesn't have much time to pick on anybody.... and the angelfish takes care of all the babies... :-)>>> I had a swordtail once but he was a real bully... I have heard they can be so. I would also consider getting rummynose tetras instead of neons, because as a rule if their faces are a deep red it tells you that that they are healthy and happy, and your water is good. And again, yikes. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > One thing about platy's to consider (I love them personally, but not > everyone does). The females can change genders to male (but not back to > female). So even if you buy all females for your tank you will end up > with males eventually (survival instincts). They are very curious fish, > always checking out the crevices and foraging for food. If you like > Platy's you can also consider Swordtails, they are very closely related > though, so don't keep them in the same tank as they can interbreed and > mix the species. > > Amber > > On 5/28/2013 7:36 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > > > I'd go for rummynose tetras. they are nice looking, and I think they > > school the best. As for male guppies, I gave up on them over a year > > ago, they're nasty, in my experience they just swim around trying to > > bully everyone else... even other kinds of fish much bigger than > > themselves, the females are nice pleasant community fish. > > Platys are a fish I would consider also, the females are nice and > > friendly... and just as colourfull as the males. > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Garry Peak <peakie_au@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and > > never post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 > > months ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female > > guppies in it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is > > happy and healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended > > guidelines, as discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a > > school(s) of tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go > > with as far as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm > > thinking either a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. > > What sort of numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other > > than the 5 guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one > > catches my eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few > > small ottos. > > > Thanks in advance! > > > Garry > > > > > > > > > Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in > > the end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh > > because it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem > > bright- Anonymous > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Reply via web post > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGNkZzA4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--?act=reply&messageNum=54739> > > Reply to sender > > <mailto:al_keep_fish@...?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Litre%20Tank> > > Reply to group > > <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Litre%20Tank> > > Start a New Topic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWJjcjRvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > > Messages in this topic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54736;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NWFlM2JoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQR0cGNJZAM1NDczNg--> > > (3) > > > > Recent Activity: > > > > * New Members > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWlsOWNiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-?o=6> > > 2 > > * New Photos > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcm5sbDQzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-> > > 2 > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNXJnZHM4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54743	From: cliffl	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: New member and poster

Hi John, Agree completely, on top of aeration problem there is no room to swim around, a goldfish bowl at worst would be better, can get small breeding tanks with dividers that can be slid in which would be far better. Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54744	From: Noura	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: Fish Numbers For A 100 Litre Tank

It happened in my tank once! I had 3 'mature' female Platies, and all one day, one of them grew a gonopodium.. Actually the anal fin turned into one. No need to explain how puzzled I was! As for the fish selection, it would be nice and useful to keep a pleco, maybe a species that doesn't grow too big and too fast, it will need a hiding place as these are usually shy and nocturnal fish. Noura --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > One thing about platy's to consider (I love them personally, but not > everyone does). The females can change genders to male (but not back to > female). So even if you buy all females for your tank you will end up > with males eventually (survival instincts). They are very curious fish, > always checking out the crevices and foraging for food. If you like > Platy's you can also consider Swordtails, they are very closely related > though, so don't keep them in the same tank as they can interbreed and > mix the species. > > Amber > > On 5/28/2013 7:36 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > > > I'd go for rummynose tetras. they are nice looking, and I think they > > school the best. As for male guppies, I gave up on them over a year > > ago, they're nasty, in my experience they just swim around trying to > > bully everyone else... even other kinds of fish much bigger than > > themselves, the females are nice pleasant community fish. > > Platys are a fish I would consider also, the females are nice and > > friendly... and just as colourfull as the males. > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Garry Peak <peakie_au@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Guys, > > > Been a member for quite a few years, but generally just read and > > never post. Have a question. Firstly, have set a 100 litre tank up 2 > > months ago, is well planted, and currently still has the 5 female > > guppies in it that I started with. Has cycled nicely, everybody is > > happy and healthy, and all my readings are in the recommended > > guidelines, as discussed on here quite a bit. I'm going to go with a > > school(s) of tetras I believe, what sort of numbers could I safely go > > with as far as bioload? I don't want a huge load for the tank. I'm > > thinking either a school of neons, or 2 school or neons & glolights. > > What sort of numbers could I have do you think? 10 of each? 15? Other > > than the 5 guppies (I may add a nice male to the 5 females if one > > catches my eye), the only other fish I intend to get will be a few > > small ottos. > > > Thanks in advance! > > > Garry > > > > > > > > > Don't fall for looks, they can deceive. Don't fall for wealth, in > > the end it fades away. Find someone who makes you smile and laugh > > because it takes only a single smile or laugh to make a dark day seem > > bright- Anonymous > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Reply via web post > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGNkZzA4BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--?act=reply <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxNGNkZzA4BF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0NzM5BHNlYwN mdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--?act=reply&messageNum=54739> &messageNum=54739> > > Reply to sender > > <mailto:al_keep_fish@...?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Li tre%20Tank> > > Reply to group > > <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ?subject=Re%3A%20Fish%20Numbers%20For%20A%20100%20Litre%20Tank> > > Start a New Topic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbWJjcjRvBF9TAzk 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGM Ec3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > > Messages in this topic > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/54736;_ylc=X3oDMTM2NWFlM2 JoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU0Nz M5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQR0cGNJZAM1NDczNg--> > > (3) > > > > Recent Activity: > > > > * New Members > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWlsOWNiBF9T Azk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3Zt YnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-?o=6> > > 2 > > * New Photos > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcm5sbDQzBF9TAz k3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG 90BHN0aW1lAzEzNjk3NjQzMjk-> > > 2 > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNXJnZHM4BF9TAzk3MzU5 NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3Rp bWUDMTM2OTc2NDMyOQ--> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54745	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54746	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, Don't panic! please tell us a little about your system & fish so that we can more easily help you: - How big is your tank? - How long have you had it? - Is it cycled? - What filtration do you use? - How much water do you change & how often? - How big is the hospital tank? - How often do you change the hospital tank water? - What are your parameters [main & hospital tank]? - What medication[s] are you using? If at all possible please upload some pictures of your fish & tank, don't worry of oyu don't know the answer to some of the above questions-let us know as much as possible. John*<o)))<* On 29 May 2013 17:32, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > ** > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54747	From: Noura	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened by more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and upped the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they –animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. Noura from Syria From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54748	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

-my hospital tank is 10 gal and my main is 30 gal, both have filtration but the carbon from the hospital was removed for treatment -I have pictures uploaded for reference to fish and the treatment -I recently created the tank for sick fish... around a month or a little less -I do a 20% water change every time my chemical testing kit says my ammonia is above 0.25 ppm --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > Don't panic! please tell us a little about your system & fish so that we > can more easily help you: > > - How big is your tank? > - How long have you had it? > - Is it cycled? > - What filtration do you use? > - How much water do you change & how often? > - How big is the hospital tank? > - How often do you change the hospital tank water? > - What are your parameters [main & hospital tank]? > - What medication[s] are you using? > > If at all possible please upload some pictures of your fish & tank, don't > worry of oyu don't know the answer to some of the above questions-let us > know as much as possible. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 29 May 2013 17:32, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54749	From: Michelle	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Can i get step by step directions for the salt? And what about the ick? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, > there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened by > more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and upped > the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot > stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, > and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this > illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they > –animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't > stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. > > > > Noura from Syria > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING > > > > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54750	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Noura, I agree with you, salt is a great healer & I hate using any medication, especially 'broad spectrum' unless it is recommended by a vet. I've used salt many times to heal all sorts of problems as it kind to the filters. A couple of years ago one of my male Comets tore a huge section of his tail away while chasing the female, so much that it affected the posture of his swimming. Must have been around 4" long x half an inch piece & it ripped along the grain of the rays. I just swabbed it with iodine & then salted the tank for a few days, it grew back over the next 7 or 8 months & now you would never know there had ever been any damage. Glad you got your Angels healed, even though the sound like they hate each other now! John*<o)))<* On 29 May 2013 20:02, Noura <n-ocean@...> wrote: > ** > > > My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, > there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened > by > more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and > upped > the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot > stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, > and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this > illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they > �animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't > stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. > > Noura from Syria > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54751	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Michelle, You've stated that you allow the ammonia to rise to 0.25 ppm and then make a PWC (Partial Water Change) at that time. If your ammonia is rising to that level, your tank must not be completely cycled. Besides your ammonia level, please give us the rest of your water parameters -- Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and temperature. Unless your fish are otherwise stressed (from a sudden temperature drop, etc.), there's no reason for your fish to get sick -- and especially not by two differrent illnesses unless there's something else drastically stressing them -- like water parameters too high in organic wastes, etc. Depending upon your pH, (and temperature), even 0.25 ppm of ammonia can be toxic and possibly even lethal at that range (when the pH is around 8.0). We need to know the rest of your parameters -- in numbers -- to properly advise you. After ensuring your water is free of toxic contaminents -- by adequate PWC's for starters -- raise the temperature to 87 o and add one Tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons (for treating the Ich). At this same time, medicate with Furan 2 to treat the fin rot -- which may be fungal or bacterial -- this medication will treat both. Hold the temperature at 87 o until at least 2 days after seeing no further signs of Ich on your fish. Increased aeration will not only help in providing enough oxygen but will hinder the Ich from finding it's host (your fish). No medication is needed for Ich; it connot reproduce above 86 o so it's lifecycle ends -- but latent cysts on the bottom need to extra time to hatch out and die off. The salt will induce the fish to create a heavier slime coating, which will make it difficult for the Ich to get a hold in the fishes' skin. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54752	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, I just now saw, in your subject line, that you're treating Goldfish. Raise the temperature only to 80 o [-- and use aeration. The 87 o is for tropicals. 80 o will speed up the lifecycle of Ich making them more prone to the treatment. Also, use the salt as this will promote a heavier mucus coating on the fish. Instead of Furan 2 (really one of the best Fungus meds), Kordon makes several combination Ick & Fungus meds -- Ich Attack is one and Rid-Ich is another. Rid-Ich is advertised as safe for Tetras and scale-less fish, so it should be quite safe for Goldfish. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54753	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Michelle, BTW, what type of "chemical testing kits" do you have? Just wanted to mention that the test strips can often be quite inaccurate and unreliable. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54754	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, Before you add any chemicals into the victims tank, change all their water. Use dechlorinated water the same temperature as the water they are in. Add a tablespoon of salt/5 gallons to the new water. Let things settle and treat the tank with a good Ich remedy. Give them two days and change their water again with the same amount of salt and Ich remedy. Keep their water clean and the fish well fed. Salt doesn't kill Ich but the Formalin and Malachite Green will, it just must stay in the water for a week at 80°F. The water changes do what nature does," Keep It Clean" Charles H > >I just now saw, in your subject line, that you're treating Goldfish. Raise >the temperature only to 80 o [-- and use aeration. The 87 o is for >tropicals. 80 o will speed up the lifecycle of >Ich making them more prone to the >treatment. Also, use the salt as this will promote a heavier mucus coating >on the fish. Instead of Furan 2 (really one of the best Fungus meds), Kordon >makes several combination Ick & Fungus meds -- Ich Attack is one and >Rid-Ich is another. Rid-Ich is advertised as >safe for Tetras and scale-less fish, >so it should be quite safe for Goldfish. > Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54755	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I've lost 8 fish to ick... It's nasty. Here's what you need to do: do daily 1/2 water changes and be sure to vacuum the bottom of the tank. The last time I had ick, I would change1/2 the water but I wouldn't vacuum the bottom. The bottom is where the ick live when it's not on the fish. If you can keep that clean, you should be able to kill the ick. Remember, make sure there is no gravel on the bottom of the tank as this will just make it harder for you. Also, when my goldfish had fin rot, I bought a bottle of Mela Fix. Within two days, the rotting had stopped and in four it was healed. Wonderful stuff. Next time you get a new fish, be sure to quarantine it before you introduce it to your main tank. That's how I lost 6 fish to ick. Now, I quarantine. If I hadn't done that last time I got new fish, I might have lost another 6 fish to it. Instead, I just lost two. Add an air stone to the quarantine tank as well if possible. If you don't have a gravel vacuum, you can create a suction through a garden hose. That's what we do. To create the suction, we connect one end of the hose to the outside faucet and put the other end into the water of the tank. Then, we turn on the water and wait for all of the air to be forced out of the hose. Next, you unscrew the hose from the faucet and let it lay on the ground. You should have a suction now. ________________________________ From: Noura <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:02 PM Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened by more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and upped the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they –animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. Noura from Syria From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING   My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54756	From: harry perry	Date: 5/29/2013
Subject: ICK ......something to consider.

Over the years there has been a lot written about ICK or ICH. The consensus seems to be that it is always present in our tanks and the only reason your fish doesn't come down with it is because of their immune system. Of course if you introduce new fish to your tank and they have it, your asking for trouble. As a moderator I get to read all the posts and I can tell you every time I see an ICK problem the same conditions are present. Infrequent water changes, overfeeding and too many fish for your tank. Overcrowding is the quickest way to compromise a fish's immune system. I feed my fish once every other day. Unless they are fry. I've read all the fish food containers. There will always be food left over and the excess food is algae food because of all the phosphates that the food adds to the tank. A tank will start out with a bunch of pretty fish, everybody healthy, it looks great, life is good. Then.....all of a sudden.... your fish are scratching themselves on the rocks. They have these white specks, what happened???? I take care of my fish. What happened is the fish grew bigger and what once was nice tank is now a nightmare. My local LFS sells 3" Alligator Gars. While trophy bass fishing in Florida I caught Alligator gars, they were 4 foot long. When buying fish you need to consider what the fish will grow to be. Oscar seem to be everywhere this fish grows to  12" that's 2 fish in a 100 gallon tank. Doesn't make sense to me unless you just love Oscars. The moral of this story ???? Go back to basics and research your fish before you buy them. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54757	From: Noura	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, I see that our group members gave you good and detailed advise. But I'd add what these members have taught me before, which is that I shouldn't add all the salt at once. What I did was to fill a 1.5 litre bottle with water + 4 tablespoons of salt (My tank is a 20 gallon), and add this amount gradually to the tank throughout the day. I kept my two sick Angelfish in the community tank as they needed the large water volume to heal, but I had to take one out later due to their aggressiveness towards each other. I was quite sure that one of them was going to die of fin rot because red strikes appeared on his fins, and his tail was rapidly shortening. But all went well eventually. Oh.. and remember to replace the salt proportionally with each water change , I made 50% water changes every 48 hours, so I added 2 tablespoons of salt with the new water each time. I gradually reduced the salt after the fish were healed. What other fish do you keep in the 30 gallon? Let us know how things go with your fish. Good luck, Noura. From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michelle Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:15 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING Can i get step by step directions for the salt? And what about the ick? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Noura" <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, > there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened by > more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and upped > the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot > stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, > and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this > illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they > –animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't > stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. > > > > Noura from Syria > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING > > > > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54758	From: sevenspringss	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, As a reminder, the manufacturers of most fish medications recommend making a partial water change before medicating -- just as I suggested -- often stating this right in their directions. Still, we need to know the results of the water tests for all your parameters to guide you in not having these issues return. As for Ich medications, many contain dye medications such as Malachite Green, which will decimate your nitrobacters, effectively eliminating your nitrogen cycle. There are some medications -- such as Kordon's Ich Attach(which is advertised not to interfere with your cycle) -- which won't kill off your nitrobacters, which you should consider. Unless absolutely needed, dye medications should be avoided if only because they'll stain the silicone sealant of your tank, and there are other options for treating fish. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54759	From: Amber	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I do want to point out something (and I know it'll be hard to hear because I've heard it myself, LOL). But your tank is over-crowded, that's the main reason your fish are getting sick. A 30 gallon tank is BARELY big enough for a single (baby/juvenile) goldfish, and not big enough for an adult goldfish. You should consider getting at least a 75 gallon or even bigger if you want to keep your goldfish healthy long-term, and I don't know how many fish you have total in that 30 gallon but you might need to rehome some of them (if they are healthy). They will have a lot of health problems if you try to keep them in a 30 gallon all together. Even with daily water changes and cleaning your filter several times a week it won't be enough, goldfish are very dirty (poo a lot, and eat a lot). Amber On 5/29/2013 8:32 AM, Michelle wrote: > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > __._,_. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54760	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I don't have temperature (no thermomiter), but our house is always 67-0 degrees. I DONT have a heater. I use a testing kit, and if nitrates get above 0 i do a change and I test pH as well Ill test real quick Ammonia 0.1 ppm Nitrate (NO2) 0.1 ppm Nitrate (NO3)0 ppm pH 6.5 (I used the 'API Freshwater Master Test Kit') Where can I buy Furan 2? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Michelle, > > You've stated that you allow the ammonia to rise to 0.25 ppm and then make > a PWC (Partial Water Change) at that time. If your ammonia is rising to > that level, your tank must not be completely cycled. > > Besides your ammonia level, please give us the rest of your water > parameters -- Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and temperature. Unless your fish are otherwise > stressed (from a sudden temperature drop, etc.), there's no reason for your > fish to get sick -- and especially not by two differrent illnesses unless > there's something else drastically stressing them -- like water parameters too > high in organic wastes, etc. Depending upon your pH, (and temperature), > even 0.25 ppm of ammonia can be toxic and possibly even lethal at that range > (when the pH is around 8.0). We need to know the rest of your parameters -- > in numbers -- to properly advise you. > > After ensuring your water is free of toxic contaminents -- by adequate > PWC's for starters -- raise the temperature to 87 o and add one Tablespoon of > salt per 5 gallons (for treating the Ich). At this same time, medicate with > Furan 2 to treat the fin rot -- which may be fungal or bacterial -- this > medication will treat both. > > Hold the temperature at 87 o until at least 2 days after seeing no further > signs of Ich on your fish. Increased aeration will not only help in > providing enough oxygen but will hinder the Ich from finding it's host (your fish). > No medication is needed for Ich; it connot reproduce above 86 o so it's > lifecycle ends -- but latent cysts on the bottom need to extra time to hatch > out and die off. The salt will induce the fish to create a heavier slime > coating, which will make it difficult for the Ich to get a hold in the fishes' > skin. > > Ray > > </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54761	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I have images of the medications I am using in the picture albums --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > I just now saw, in your subject line, that you're treating Goldfish. Raise > the temperature only to 80 o [-- and use aeration. The 87 o is for > tropicals. 80 o will speed up the lifecycle of Ich making them more prone to the > treatment. Also, use the salt as this will promote a heavier mucus coating > on the fish. Instead of Furan 2 (really one of the best Fungus meds), Kordon > makes several combination Ick & Fungus meds -- Ich Attack is one and > Rid-Ich is another. Rid-Ich is advertised as safe for Tetras and scale-less fish, > so it should be quite safe for Goldfish. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54762	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I use liquid testing using the API freshwater Master Test Kit --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Michelle, > > BTW, what type of "chemical testing kits" do you have? Just wanted to > mention that the test strips can often be quite inaccurate and unreliable. > > Ray</HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54763	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I agree with Amber, a larger tank is the way to go as more volume of water gives you so much more room for error. However-looking at your fish they will still likely survive if you follow the advice from the other members & please ask if there is anything that you need clarifying or don't understand-that is what we are here for. Best of luck to you & your fish. John*<o)))<* On 30 May 2013 15:46, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > I do want to point out something (and I know it'll be hard to hear > because I've heard it myself, LOL). But your tank is over-crowded, > that's the main reason your fish are getting sick. A 30 gallon tank is > BARELY big enough for a single (baby/juvenile) goldfish, and not big > enough for an adult goldfish. You should consider getting at least a 75 > gallon or even bigger if you want to keep your goldfish healthy > long-term, and I don't know how many fish you have total in that 30 > gallon but you might need to rehome some of them (if they are healthy). > They will have a lot of health problems if you try to keep them in a 30 > gallon all together. Even with daily water changes and cleaning your > filter several times a week it won't be enough, goldfish are very dirty > (poo a lot, and eat a lot). > > Amber > > > On 5/29/2013 8:32 AM, Michelle wrote: > > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > __._,_. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54764	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

With the second water change do i do all the water of the reg 20% --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > Before you add any chemicals into the victims > tank, change all their water. Use dechlorinated > water the same temperature as the water they are > in. Add a tablespoon of salt/5 gallons to the new > water. > > Let things settle and treat the tank with a good > Ich remedy. Give them two days and change their > water again with the same amount of salt and Ich > remedy. Keep their water clean and the fish well > fed. Salt doesn't kill Ich but the Formalin and > Malachite Green will, it just must stay in the > water for a week at 80°F. The water changes do > what nature does," Keep It Clean" > > Charles H > > > > > >I just now saw, in your subject line, that you're treating Goldfish. Raise > >the temperature only to 80 o [-- and use aeration. The 87 o is for > >tropicals. 80 o will speed up the lifecycle of > >Ich making them more prone to the > >treatment. Also, use the salt as this will promote a heavier mucus coating > >on the fish. Instead of Furan 2 (really one of the best Fungus meds), Kordon > >makes several combination Ick & Fungus meds -- Ich Attack is one and > >Rid-Ich is another. Rid-Ich is advertised as > >safe for Tetras and scale-less fish, > >so it should be quite safe for Goldfish. > > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54765	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

I have a very thin layer of gravel in the hospital tank. I use a gravel vac as well --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > I've lost 8 fish to ick... It's nasty. Here's what you need to do: do daily 1/2 water changes and be sure to vacuum the bottom of the tank. The last time I had ick, I would change1/2 the water but I wouldn't vacuum the bottom. The bottom is where the ick live when it's not on the fish. If you can keep that clean, you should be able to kill the ick. Remember, make sure there is no gravel on the bottom of the tank as this will just make it harder for you. > > Also, when my goldfish had fin rot, I bought a bottle of Mela Fix. Within two days, the rotting had stopped and in four it was healed. Wonderful stuff. > > Next time you get a new fish, be sure to quarantine it before you introduce it to your main tank. That's how I lost 6 fish to ick. Now, I quarantine. If I hadn't done that last time I got new fish, I might have lost another 6 fish to it. Instead, I just lost two. > > Add an air stone to the quarantine tank as well if possible. > > If you don't have a gravel vacuum, you can create a suction through a garden hose. That's what we do. To create the suction, we connect one end of the hose to the outside faucet and put the other end into the water of the tank. Then, we turn on the water and wait for all of the air to be forced out of the hose. Next, you unscrew the hose from the faucet and let it lay on the ground. You should have a suction now. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Noura <n-ocean@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:02 PM > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING > > > My Angelfish had fin rot a month ago, they're 3 inches tall , or wide, > there's no difference J They're probably two males, their tails shortened by > more than half an inch and became like strings, I just added salt, and upped > the water change routine, about 50% every 48 hours. Within 4 days the rot > stopped getting worse, and in two weeks the two fish were completely cured, > and their fins grew back. However, I don't know what happened during this > illness, but the two can't stand each other now. Telling them that they > â€"animals- should be good examples of peace and harmony to us humans, didn't > stop the fight L , I had to move one of them out before it was killed. > > > > Noura from Syria > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:33 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING > > > >   > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54766	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Again, I am using that... smells putrid though. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > As a reminder, the manufacturers of most fish medications recommend making > a partial water change before medicating -- just as I suggested -- often > stating this right in their directions. Still, we need to know the results of > the water tests for all your parameters to guide you in not having these > issues return. > > As for Ich medications, many contain dye medications such as Malachite > Green, which will decimate your nitrobacters, effectively eliminating your > nitrogen cycle. There are some medications -- such as Kordon's Ich Attach(which > is advertised not to interfere with your cycle) -- which won't kill off your > nitrobacters, which you should consider. Unless absolutely needed, dye > medications should be avoided if only because they'll stain the silicone > sealant of your tank, and there are other options for treating fish. > > Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54767	From: Michelle	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

its 50 gallons --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I do want to point out something (and I know it'll be hard to hear > because I've heard it myself, LOL). But your tank is over-crowded, > that's the main reason your fish are getting sick. A 30 gallon tank is > BARELY big enough for a single (baby/juvenile) goldfish, and not big > enough for an adult goldfish. You should consider getting at least a 75 > gallon or even bigger if you want to keep your goldfish healthy > long-term, and I don't know how many fish you have total in that 30 > gallon but you might need to rehome some of them (if they are healthy). > They will have a lot of health problems if you try to keep them in a 30 > gallon all together. Even with daily water changes and cleaning your > filter several times a week it won't be enough, goldfish are very dirty > (poo a lot, and eat a lot). > > Amber > > On 5/29/2013 8:32 AM, Michelle wrote: > > > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? > > > > __._,_. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54768	From: Amber	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Okay, and how many fish do you have in the 50 gallon tank? I had five in a 55 gallon and the tank was almost always dirty. They were four common goldfish and a single comet. Back then I didn't know a lot about fish but I knew that something was wrong. I ended up putting a free ad in the paper saying anyone with a huge tank or a pond could have them. They now live in a nice large pond... If you don't already have it, you should get a filter rated for 100 gallons or more. It'll save you a lot of hard work. Anyway, remember to do those gravel vacs. as I believe that be the best thing for you. If you can suck up all of the ones that fall to the bottom, you can effectively kill off the parasite. The salt is meant to kill the ick right after it leaves the gravel and before it attaches itself to the fish again. This is when it's at its most valuable. I don't know how salt affects goldfish, so I'd be very careful. Also, I'd remove what gravel you have in the tank for now. Doing this will make it easier for you to get all of the stuff from the bottom out. I haven't had any luck with the medicines, either... Honestly, I think you'd be best off trying to raise the temperature and vacuuming often.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54769	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.

I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead fish. Maybe in the future I will. Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save them... Sorry, I'm just rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the name of science. I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] ICK ......something to consider. Over the years there has been a lot written about ICK or ICH. The consensus seems to be that it is always present in our tanks and the only reason your fish doesn't come down with it is because of their immune system. Of course if you introduce new fish to your tank and they have it, your asking for trouble. As a moderator I get to read all the posts and I can tell you every time I see an ICK problem the same conditions are present. Infrequent water changes, overfeeding and too many fish for your tank. Overcrowding is the quickest way to compromise a fish's immune system. I feed my fish once every other day. Unless they are fry. I've read all the fish food containers. There will always be food left over and the excess food is algae food because of all the phosphates that the food adds to the tank. A tank will start out with a bunch of pretty fish, everybody healthy, it looks great, life is good. Then.....all of a sudden.... your fish are scratching themselves on the rocks. They have these white specks, what happened???? I take care of my fish. What happened is the fish grew bigger and what once was nice tank is now a nightmare. My local LFS sells 3" Alligator Gars. While trophy bass fishing in Florida I caught Alligator gars, they were 4 foot long. When buying fish you need to consider what the fish will grow to be. Oscar seem to be everywhere this fish grows to  12" that's 2 fish in a 100 gallon tank. Doesn't make sense to me unless you just love Oscars. The moral of this story ???? Go back to basics and research your fish before you buy them. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54770	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

Please reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis "There is no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " There have been many serious investigations into the life cycle of the Protozoa. Also PLEASE Note: " Heat treatment Heat treatment can be highly effective, and it can be combined with other treatments. However, it can only be used on fish that can tolerate high water temperatures, and is unsuitable for cold water fish like koi and goldfish, but even in those cases, a higher water temperature will accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite, allowing other treatments to take effect sooner." ~~~~~~~~~ There is very good information in this reference and the references included. Charles Harrison >I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. >In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my >perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 >gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I >just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain >that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had >some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead >fish. Maybe in the future I will. > > >Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it >sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm >sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying >that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because >I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no >matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I >don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels >are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm >sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you >I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you >don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how >these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or >meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with >ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save >them... Sorry, I'm just > rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right >now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the >name of science. > > >I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced >to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I >sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not >completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that >says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54771	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.

>I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. This is not a "Fact" - it is a simple belief. >In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my >perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 >gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I >just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain >that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had >some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead >fish. Maybe in the future I will. Careful with your "Facts" and "Proofs" of said infestation of Protozoa. Your deductions are correct however. There is no "Resting stage of the Parasite" just waiting for a stressed fish. Problem is - the large reservoirs in the big box pet stores that let the free swimming stage of the Parasite to contaminate most all of the live stock in their inventory. It is easy to contaminate and infest large numbers of inventory with first stage parasite. The customer should be aware that the potential of their purchases have a 90% chance of being infested with ICH. New purchases need to be isolated in a cycled tank and treated for ICH if they come from such sources. It is simple math. The Big Box Stores want to sell fish, foods, medications and larger tanks. Sick fish just require more purchases. It is good business. There are lots of Garage Sales of first purchased aquariums for sale all over the nation. No wonder why. Fish are easy to kill. Isolate new fish, treat for ICH, keep them clean with water changes and well fed to be healthy. Don't forget the filtration, etc. for the isolation. Charles Harrison >Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it >sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm >sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying >that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because >I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no >matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I >don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels >are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm >sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you >I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you >don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how >these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or >meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with >ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save >them... Sorry, I'm just > rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right >now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the >name of science. > I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54772	From: harry perry	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Amber.....Re: [AquaticLife] ICK ......something to consider.

'I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank". My point was......A fishes immune system is it's first line of defense against possible 100 different diseases that fish can come down with. "Then you are saying that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it." I'm simple saying it would make a lot of sense to give your fish the best chance of survival by insuring the health of their immune system by frequent water changes, not overcrowding, quality fish food fed sparingly. "I don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels are) none of my fish have gotten ill." Without testing your water parameters, when something does go wrong how will you figure out how to fix it?. Anytime I post in any forum, on any topic it is to help someone if I can.  Particularly here, where there are a lot of beginners who could use help starting out right and developing some good fish keeping habits. They're your fish. You can do it anyway you want. There are some accepted basics that work. If you don't want to follow them that's your prerogative. Aquariums make excellent Hamster habitats. Harry From: Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICK ......something to consider.   I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead fish. Maybe in the future I will. Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save them... Sorry, I'm just rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the name of science. I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:38 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] ICK ......something to consider. Over the years there has been a lot written about ICK or ICH. The consensus seems to be that it is always present in our tanks and the only reason your fish doesn't come down with it is because of their immune system. Of course if you introduce new fish to your tank and they have it, your asking for trouble. As a moderator I get to read all the posts and I can tell you every time I see an ICK problem the same conditions are present. Infrequent water changes, overfeeding and too many fish for your tank. Overcrowding is the quickest way to compromise a fish's immune system. I feed my fish once every other day. Unless they are fry. I've read all the fish food containers. There will always be food left over and the excess food is algae food because of all the phosphates that the food adds to the tank. A tank will start out with a bunch of pretty fish, everybody healthy, it looks great, life is good. Then.....all of a sudden.... your fish are scratching themselves on the rocks. They have these white specks, what happened???? I take care of my fish. What happened is the fish grew bigger and what once was nice tank is now a nightmare. My local LFS sells 3" Alligator Gars. While trophy bass fishing in Florida I caught Alligator gars, they were 4 foot long. When buying fish you need to consider what the fish will grow to be. Oscar seem to be everywhere this fish grows to  12" that's 2 fish in a 100 gallon tank. Doesn't make sense to me unless you just love Oscars. The moral of this story ???? Go back to basics and research your fish before you buy them. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54773	From: nonstopmom888	Date: 5/30/2013
Subject: Ick, how to get it...

Hi, last year I read a lot about ick online and as far as I remember: the parasite goes through a cycle within which it is also present in the water for a little while (free floating), looking for new hosts. It is so small, that you cannot see it but during that stage vacuuming the gravel is not enough. If one parasite stays floating in the water it will come back and multiply. If they are floating in the water they are most vulnerable and you have to kill it at that time. Therefore the treatment has to last as long as a complete life cycle lasts. What people sometimes forget and it was warned about it: During the small time that the parasite is in its free floating stage it can be on anything in the aquarium. Which means if you buy plants out of a tank that might have infected fish which in it you can catch ick by introducing those plants into your tank.... Good luck with the treatment! Nora

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54774	From: cliffl	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Michelle, I have always used a dye called methylene blue to treat white spot, it turns the water deep blue and gets rid of the ich, very good for treating any protozoan parasites, can buy it in pet shops or at a vets, another way to cure and stop white spot is keep the temperature at 89°, i also use malachite green for fin rot, neither harm the fish, but can stain plants and filter, i have always used them in a hospital tank with just some aeration. Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54775	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

Hi Charles, I was interested to see Chlorine treatment mentioned as one of the options on the Wikipedia page for treating Koi & Goldfish-surely the poisonous effects of the Chlorine would make this treatment deadly or am I missing something? John*<o)))<* On 31 May 2013 03:48, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > ** > > > Please reference: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis > > "There is no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait > for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " > > There have been many serious investigations into the life cycle of > the Protozoa. > > Also PLEASE Note: > > " Heat treatment > Heat treatment can be highly effective, and it can be combined with > other treatments. However, it can only be used on fish that can > tolerate high water temperatures, and is unsuitable for cold water > fish like koi and goldfish, but even in those cases, a higher water > temperature will accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite, allowing > other treatments to take effect sooner." > > ~~~~~~~~~ > > There is very good information in this reference and the references > included. > > Charles Harrison > > >I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. > >In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my > >perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 > >gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I > >just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain > >that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had > >some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead > >fish. Maybe in the future I will. > > > > > >Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it > >sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm > >sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying > >that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because > >I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no > >matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I > >don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels > >are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm > >sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you > >I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you > >don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how > >these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or > >meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with > >ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save > >them... Sorry, I'm just > > rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right > >now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the > >name of science. > > > > > >I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced > >to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I > >sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not > >completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that > >says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54776	From: Siva	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Question about fishy smell

Hi all I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. Do let me know if you require any information. Thank you for your kind reply. Regards Siva Bangalore,India

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54777	From: Amber Larr	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.

I agree with you about keeping the fish isolated... I learned that the hard way after I contaminated my main tank and lost most of my fish. Now I tell everyone who's getting new fish because it seems like no one was too clear to me about the importance of isolating. And yes, it is sad that stores think that way but the only thing we can do is take our business elsewhere. I'm sure we couldn't get them for animal cruelty, the let so much else go I'm sure they wouldn't consider sick fish to be cruel... ________________________________ From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] ICH ......something to consider. >I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. This is not a "Fact" - it is a simple belief. >In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my >perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 >gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I >just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain >that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had >some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead >fish. Maybe in the future I will. Careful with your "Facts" and "Proofs" of said infestation of Protozoa. Your deductions are correct however. There is no "Resting stage of the Parasite" just waiting for a stressed fish. Problem is - the large reservoirs in the big box pet stores that let the free swimming stage of the Parasite to contaminate most all of the live stock in their inventory. It is easy to contaminate and infest large numbers of inventory with first stage parasite. The customer should be aware that the potential of their purchases have a 90% chance of being infested with ICH.  New purchases need to be isolated in a cycled tank and treated for ICH  if they come from such sources. It is simple math. The Big Box Stores want to sell fish, foods, medications and larger tanks.  Sick fish just require more purchases. It is good business. There are lots of Garage Sales of first purchased aquariums for sale all over the nation. No wonder why. Fish are easy to kill. Isolate new fish, treat for ICH, keep them clean with water changes and well fed to be healthy. Don't forget the filtration, etc. for the isolation. Charles Harrison [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54778	From: Ava	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Betta fish as a gift?

So, my cousin and his 3 year old daughter recently moved into our basement. She has become entranced with my tanks, which is awesome, because not much keeps her entertained other than the television and we don't want that. She'll come into my room and look into my 10gallon betta tank, which also has a few african dwarf frogs. "FROG FROG!!! LOOK A FISHIE!" It's asian-zen themed, so I have a dragon bubbler, and a jade buddha in there. She'll point to the bubbler and say "DRAH-GAW" And then at the buddha and go "And dat's JESUS!" She loves watching feeding time for my axolotl tank, and her absolute FAVORITE thing, is what we call "Fish kisses." I make sure our hands are clean, and she'll dip her finger into the goldfish tank, and the fish come up and "kiss" her fingers, just looking for food. Haha. Anyway, I have a spare 10 gallon tank/filter/hood/gravel... I was thinking of possibly setting up her own betta tank! I'd have to pick up a heater and a light, maybe some seachem products to help the cycle along. I think she's too young to have this be a responsibility lesson, but I'm hoping it'll keep her interested long enough to not care about TV as much. I'd have to clear it with her dad, because if they ever move he'd take the tank with him. Has anyone ever worked with children and fish? Do you think it'd be worth the trouble? Anyone given a fish as a gift? I hope this works! Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54779	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: KH & GH

Hi Charles/all My tank water: PH - 8.4 API master test kit GH  - 13 (JBL testing liquid) KH - 20(API) TDS: 800 The input tap water: ph 7.4(API master test kit) GH  - 13 (JBL testing liquid) KH - 20(API) TDS:800 Additional info: My other 2 planted tanks have PH 7.4. I have not performed the other tests.  How do i manage the water parameters ?  i have a mix of  fishes, i think it will all be okay if i haev Ph around 7.8-8.0 and little more softer water. Please suggest how i can manage. The tank gets vac every alternate day to remove the droppings as the fishes are large(it is a 180G/640L) tank.  Now and then i do get fishy smell in water, but other planted tanks i do not. Please suggest,. Thank you & warm regards Siva ________________________________ From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2013 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] KH & GH   That means that there is a lot of acid necessary to move your pH to acid and great for your system. Buffering is then another concept you need to understand. Your water has a great buffer compactly so the change in pH is stable as long as you keep the water the same. That means a lot of water changes or just frequent changes of 20 to 60% once a week. Your water will remain stable at the same pH and that is what matters the most. All the other chemicals in the water stays safe when you keep your water fresh. Charles H > Thank you for that as it is quite hard to figure! For some time now I >have been puzzling about the GH & KH so I thought it was about time I made >the effort to understand what it all meant rather than just measuring my >water & getting meaningless results. > >You say KH is how much acid is needed to make the water pH neutral 7.0 so >how is my KH 5 when my pH is 7.8 & my GH is 10? > > John*<o)))<* > > >On 13 May 2013 20:24, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi John >> I'll make it smaller . . . >> >> KH is about how much acid is needed to make the water reach a pH neutral >> of 7.0 >> >> GH is about how much Calcium and Magnesium is in the water or how >> "Hard" the water is. >> >> pH is a value about how acid or caustic the water is. 7.00 is >> neutral, pH 14 is the highest value water will go caustic, pH 0 is as >> highest acidic value water will go. >> >> Now if you re-read Ray's letter and still have questions, I am sure >> we can give you an answer you will understand. There are several >> interrelated parts to this water chemistry thing. >> >> Charles H >> >> > I have always been confused about KH & GH, what they mean in terms of >> >water quality & how they relate to, & are affected by temperature & pH. >> >I have tried several times searching this on the internet but each >> >result is either 2 hours reading or you need a PHD in chemistry to >> >understand it! I guess I'm not the only one on here that doesn't get it >> >so can someone explain it in layman's terms please. As an example my >> >constant readings are: pH 7.8, KH 5 & GH 10. >> > >> > John<o)))< >> > >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife … A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >…¥Ø`….½½.><((((†>.…¥Ø`….½½.…¥Ø`….½><((((†> ½.…¥Ø`….½. , .…¥Ø`…..><((((†> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject >(was re: old subject)" <- ><†((((><.…¥Ø`….½½.…¥Ø`….½<†((((><½.…¥Ø`….½. , .…¥Ø`…..<†((((><…¥Ø`….½½. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My >Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 >posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post >replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54780	From: daydreamdesign13	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ......something to consider.

Wanting to be prepared, here is something I read when I googled "curing ich naturally": http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/freshwater-fish-disease/91043-curing-ich-naturally.html Deb

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54781	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

There is nothing about methylene blue that is antiparasitic in nature. Methylene blue is a stain medication primarily meant to treat fungus problems and has some antibacterial properties as well. I would suspect that your success in treating ich using methylene blue is a coincidence and that either the fish were able to fight the parasite on their own via their immune systems or something else occurred to rid them of the parasite. As for malachite green, yes, this can be an effective medication for some fish suffering fin rot symptoms, but it doesn't work for all fish or for all cases of fin rot. If the fin rot is fungal without the accompaniment of bacteria problems at the same time, then the dye in malachite green will often cure fungal problems. IF the fin rot is also accompanied by a bacterial issue, then the bacteria will continue to eat away at the tissue of the fish and the fungus will return in it's wake to feed on the dead tissue left behind by the bacteria. Malachite green is quite harsh on a fish's system and not all fish can handle it. Please be careful when suggesting medications to others or when using them yourself. If used improperly many medications can make matters worse or even kill the fish. It is important to understand the medication and it's ingredients and what it does, how it works, etc. before attempting to use it. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cliffl" <cliff.lambton@...> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > I have always used a dye called methylene blue to treat white spot, it turns the water deep blue and gets rid of the ich, very good for treating any protozoan parasites, can buy it in pet shops or at a vets, another way to cure and stop white spot is keep the temperature at 89°, i also use malachite green for fin rot, neither harm the fish, but can stain plants and filter, i have always used them in a hospital tank with just some aeration. Cliff. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54782	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

John, you are correct about chlorine being a dangerous way to attempt to treat any fish. Chlorine also kills beneficial bacteria on contact. Put simply, chlorine is toxic and that is one major reason why we in the fish hobby teach the use of water conditioners to all... to remove/detoxify the chlorine found in many water supplies. I read through that article at Wikipedia and was quite upset by the number of errors in their information. If you noticed, there was a tag/note in that article explaining that nobody claimed their place as author to that information and provided no references, thus that particular writing could at some point be removed if it is challenged. If I had the time to devote to it right now I would be contacting them at Wikipedia and challenging it myself. This is one more example of not believing everything you read just because it's on the internet. For all we know that article was written by a child or someone who has no real knowledge or experience with fish or ich. The way that article is written I would have to suspect it is one of those because it shows a large lack of knowledge about the topic. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Charles, > > I was interested to see Chlorine treatment mentioned as one of the > options on the Wikipedia page for treating Koi & Goldfish-surely the > poisonous effects of the Chlorine would make this treatment deadly or am I > missing something? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 31 May 2013 03:48, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Please reference: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis > > > > "There is no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait > > for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " > > > > There have been many serious investigations into the life cycle of > > the Protozoa. > > > > Also PLEASE Note: > > > > " Heat treatment > > Heat treatment can be highly effective, and it can be combined with > > other treatments. However, it can only be used on fish that can > > tolerate high water temperatures, and is unsuitable for cold water > > fish like koi and goldfish, but even in those cases, a higher water > > temperature will accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite, allowing > > other treatments to take effect sooner." > > > > ~~~~~~~~~ > > > > There is very good information in this reference and the references > > included. > > > > Charles Harrison > > > > >I don't agree with the fact that it is always present in your tank. > > >In fact, I bet you I could prove it to you now by taking two of my > > >perfectly fine tiger barbs and stressing both of them. One in a 10 > > >gallon never infected with ick and the other in the 10 gallon that I > > >just lost two barbs to a few weeks ago. I can almost be 100% certain > > >that neither will get ick. Neither. I would do it, too, if I had > > >some barbs to spare but I don't and I'd rather not end up with dead > > >fish. Maybe in the future I will. > > > > > > > > >Anyway, your tank is considered free of ick after a few weeks of it > > >sitting empty. Why? Because it cannot survive with a host. Well, I'm > > >sure you are thinking what if it has a host? Then you are saying > > >that my 55 gallon has a chance of becoming infected with ick because > > >I have never had no fish in it since I had ick in it. Well, no > > >matter how much I neglect that tank (Usually not too much but as I > > >don't have test strips I can never be sure what the ammonia levels > > >are) none of my fish have gotten ill. None. Want me to prove it? I'm > > >sure I can get two more barbs and torture them both just to show you > > >I'm right.(Just kidding) Luckily, I'm not that type of person so you > > >don't have to worry about animal abuse from me. But isn't that how > > >these things are found out? Perhaps I can go to my local walmart or > > >meijer and get some of their disgusting fish. The ones infected with > > >ick... They would have died anyway, and maybe I can even save > > >them... Sorry, I'm just > > > rambling on to myself. I'm concentrating on stocking my tank right > > >now, so I'm definitely not going to start sacrificing fish in the > > >name of science. > > > > > > > > >I believe that the only way you can get ick is if it is introduced > > >to your tank by infected fish or ornaments. That's all. But, like I > > >sort of said earlier, I can only be ALMOST certain of this. Not > > >completely, so please don't kill me if new research comes out that > > >says it can hide in your tank for a long time, okay. :) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54783	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > Regards > Siva > Bangalore,India >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54784	From: Michelle	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Ick, how to get it...

I tried using salt and its working really well.. but its table salt, which I didnt know was bad... im getting aquarium salt now to treat the ick and I am borrowing a heater. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "nonstopmom888" <ehebens@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > last year I read a lot about ick online and as far as I remember: > > the parasite goes through a cycle within which it is also present in the water for a little while (free floating), looking for new hosts. It is so small, that you cannot see it but during that stage vacuuming the gravel is not enough. If one parasite stays floating in the water it will come back and multiply. If they are floating in the water they are most vulnerable and you have to kill it at that time. Therefore the treatment has to last as long as a complete life cycle lasts. > > What people sometimes forget and it was warned about it: During the small time that the parasite is in its free floating stage it can be on anything in the aquarium. Which means if you buy plants out of a tank that might have infected fish which in it you can catch ick by introducing those plants into your tank.... > > Good luck with the treatment! > Nora >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54785	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

Dawn, You didn't look very closely at the References if you find little to support the major thesis of the wikipedia explanation of the Parasite "has no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " "Obviously the whole thing could have been written by a child . . . " ? I think not. There is a lot of good information within the article and it is worth knowing it is there. One might check out the references: http://www.metapathogen.com/ich/ Edward J. Noga, Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/ , University of Florida, Cooperative Extension Services http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Research/Whitespot.pdf Marshall Ostrow's book on Goldfish is also referenced and could be a good starting point for our Goldfish keeper. AND TO JOHN's thought: In 1992, I needed a way to check to see that I had added enough Thiosulfate to completely remove the Chloramine from my tap water. The amount of free Chlorine varied a lot month to month. I didn't want to add too much Thiosulfate because it can drop the pH if used in excess as it reacts with water and Oxygen releasing H2S and Sulfuric acid. Just the correct amount is most economical as well. I found a good formula for OTO Chlorine test solution and doubled the concentration of the active ingredient. I have offered this for sale since. I use this liquid test solution to test every batch of change water I draw. I have checked the water in a lot of fish tanks since 1992 for Chlorine. I have been shocked at how much Chlorine most fish will tolerate. Even my Killifish will live in 0.01 to 0.05ppm Chlorine. However, if a tank is empty of fish and has just had a bout with Ich, a complete water change with tap water would kill the free swimming stages and the Chloramine could be replaced with a major water change in a couple of days giving the life cycle of the Parasite a bath of Chlorine for 7 to 10 days and one would not have to add any chemicals to the tank to kill the Parasite, just cool it off and treat with Chlorine remover and restart the Bio-cycle to be Ich free. >John, you are correct about chlorine being a dangerous way to >attempt to treat any fish. Chlorine also kills beneficial bacteria >on contact. Put simply, chlorine is toxic and that is one major >reason why we in the fish hobby teach the use of water conditioners >to all... to remove/detoxify the chlorine found in many water >supplies. >I read through that article at Wikipedia and was quite upset by the >number of errors in their information. If you noticed, there was a >tag/note in that article explaining that nobody claimed their place >as author to that information and provided no references, thus that >particular writing could at some point be removed if it is >challenged. If I had the time to devote to it right now I would be >contacting them at Wikipedia and challenging it myself. > >This is one more example of not believing everything you read just >because it's on the internet. For all we know that article was >written by a child or someone who has no real knowledge or >experience with fish or ich. The way that article is written I >would have to suspect it is one of those because it shows a large >lack of knowledge about the topic. > >Dawn > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Charles, >> >> I was interested to see Chlorine treatment mentioned as one of the >> options on the Wikipedia page for treating Koi & Goldfish-surely the >> poisonous effects of the Chlorine would make this treatment deadly or am I >> missing something? >> >> John*<o)))<* >> >> >> On 31 May 2013 03:48, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: >> >> > ** >> > >> > >> > Please reference: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis >> > > > > "There is no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait > > > for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " > > > >> > There have been many serious investigations into the life cycle of >> > the Protozoa. >> > >> > Also PLEASE Note: >> > >> > " Heat treatment >> > Heat treatment can be highly effective, and it can be combined with >> > other treatments. However, it can only be used on fish that can >> > tolerate high water temperatures, and is unsuitable for cold water >> > fish like koi and goldfish, but even in those cases, a higher water >> > temperature will accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite, allowing >> > other treatments to take effect sooner." >> > >> > ~~~~~~~~~ >> > >> > There is very good information in this reference and the references > > > included. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54786	From: Dora Smith	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Betta fish as a gift?

Well, the 3 year old isn’t going to maintain the tank, so I’d check with your cousin. My brother has expressed interest in an aquarium from time to time, until he realized that there’s work involved. Dora From: Ava Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 9:19 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Betta fish as a gift? So, my cousin and his 3 year old daughter recently moved into our basement. She has become entranced with my tanks, which is awesome, because not much keeps her entertained other than the television and we don't want that. She'll come into my room and look into my 10gallon betta tank, which also has a few african dwarf frogs. "FROG FROG!!! LOOK A FISHIE!" It's asian-zen themed, so I have a dragon bubbler, and a jade buddha in there. She'll point to the bubbler and say "DRAH-GAW" And then at the buddha and go "And dat's JESUS!" She loves watching feeding time for my axolotl tank, and her absolute FAVORITE thing, is what we call "Fish kisses." I make sure our hands are clean, and she'll dip her finger into the goldfish tank, and the fish come up and "kiss" her fingers, just looking for food. Haha. Anyway, I have a spare 10 gallon tank/filter/hood/gravel... I was thinking of possibly setting up her own betta tank! I'd have to pick up a heater and a light, maybe some seachem products to help the cycle along. I think she's too young to have this be a responsibility lesson, but I'm hoping it'll keep her interested long enough to not care about TV as much. I'd have to clear it with her dad, because if they ever move he'd take the tank with him. Has anyone ever worked with children and fish? Do you think it'd be worth the trouble? Anyone given a fish as a gift? I hope this works! Thanks! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54787	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 5/31/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Dawn Thank you for your kind response.  EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  In case it helps, the water parameters are: KH-20 GH-13 ph-8.4 tds-800 Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. Thanks & Regards Siva ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > Regards > Siva > Bangalore,India > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54788	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Hi Cliff, Your input is appreciated, although what "works" for some hobbyists does not always work for others. Methylene Blue is an old remedy for Ich, which has fallen out of favor with the more recent treatments now being used as, as many early users of this dye med for treatment of Ich were often using salt in conjunction with this medication -- which was found to be the major agent in Ich decimation. While you may not be using salt, it has been seen that in these earlier treatments, that just as many or more successful Ich treatments were responsible from the use of the salt at these times rather than the Methylene Blue itself (which may sometimes work in mild cases, and when used in higher than recommended doses). I support Dawn entirely in everything she states here, and would further have to add that the blanket statement, that Malachite Green will not harm fish, is erroneous as even though it may not harm most fishes it can kill scaleless fish including Loaches, Cory Catfish and Mormoryds ("Elephant Noses" and "Whales"); the dye penetrates their skin. Unless a dye medication is absolutely necessary (and it seldom is), a very unnecessary drawback is that it will stain all of the silicone sealant at the joints resulting in an unsightly tank. I'll also add that 89 o is not necessary to eliminate Ich, athough a temperature of at least 86 o is necessary when employing the heat treatment. For the reason that aquarium thermometers and heater settings may occasionally be inaccurate, I always recommend raising the temperature to 87 o to ensure that it's at least 86 o. I also recommend increased aeration. There's no reason to raise it higher though, and no reason to subject the tropical fishes to any more stress than necessary by raising the temperature higher. BTW, Michelle's fish are Goldfish, which would not tolerate the heat treatment. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54789	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifec...

John, Please know that Wikipedia is well recognized as one of the few (perhaps the only one?) internet sites that permits and accepts additions and "corrections" to its content from anyone submitting new material -- without questioning their authority or the accuracy of their input. For this reason alone, and while this site may have excellent and accurate information at times (if the reader can predetermine this), this source cannot be counted upon for accuracy. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54790	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

Hi John, In following up further, on the chlorine treatment for Ich that you mention Wikipedia offers, I can only assume that perhaps this chlorine is administered by hobbyist as a bottled chlorine bleach solution -- unless you might explain it differently. In any case, and as I believe we all know, chlorine -- even in small amounts -- can be toxic to fish to the point of most often being fatal. I doubt it should be left up to the hobbyist to be able to determine the correct amount of the various percentages of bleach solutions now being offered in the market, to not be toxic to their fishes. One small math error or one small miscalculation in the volume of water being treated (after taking into consideration the space being taken up by rocks, gravel and driftwood, etc.) can easily turn into disaster. While I used to regularly use the chlorine contained in my fresh-drawn, water company-supplied chlorinated tap water (at the proper temperature) as a funguscide in the prevention of egg fungusing, the chlorine level was well advertised and consumers were made well aware of how much chlorine was being added to their water supply. Even so, I needed to be careful in the Winter, as colder water will hold a higher concentration of chlorine (and any other gases). Tank water, in this case of Wikipedia's input on a chlorine treatment, can also vary -- adding to the possible dangerous variations of chlorine levels in this Ich-treated water. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54791	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.

Hi Amber L. (love_animals07), There are other ways that Ich can be introduced to a tank which you haven't considered. I believe someone mentioned via plants (don't remember know who wrote it), but Ich can easily be carried to another tank in the water that a new fish is bagged in -- even if the entire tank of fish where this new one was bought appear healthy. This would especially happen in a stores display using a recirculating filtration system, where the same water frtom all the tanks (healthy or not) is circulated throughout all these display tanks after mixing in a central sump. Not all water goes though a UV sterilizer in these systems either, but get pumped back to all tanks after being mechanically and biologically filtered only. It's always recommended that the store's water should be discarded after the fish is acclimated, but not everyone heads this recomendation. Then too, there's always a small amount of water clinging to the fish during netting, and that's all it takes. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54792	From: Amber	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICK ......something to consider.

Yes, I suppose you are right there. I guess I forgot about that part. So, I shall amend my statement; quarantine any new fish or plants that you buy and do not mix the water your fish came in with the water in your tank. When I accidentally dumped most of the water from my bag one time, I ended up treating the tank with MelaFix as a precaution. I just wanted to take every step I could to protect the fish. They turned out to be healthy, so after a few weeks I turned them loose in my 55 gallon. My last fish I bought had ich and died... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Amber L. (love_animals07), > > There are other ways that Ich can be introduced to a tank which you haven't > considered. I believe someone mentioned via plants (don't remember know > who wrote it), but Ich can easily be carried to another tank in the water that > a new fish is bagged in -- even if the entire tank of fish where this new > one was bought appear healthy. This would especially happen in a stores > display using a recirculating filtration system, where the same water frtom all > the tanks (healthy or not) is circulated throughout all these display tanks > after mixing in a central sump. Not all water goes though a UV sterilizer > in these systems either, but get pumped back to all tanks after being > mechanically and biologically filtered only. > > It's always recommended that the store's water should be discarded after > the fish is acclimated, but not everyone heads this recomendation. Then too, > there's always a small amount of water clinging to the fish during netting, > and that's all it takes. > > Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54793	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/1/2013
Subject: Re: ICH ...thing to consider. no dormant stage in the lifecycle

Charles, I agree there was "some" good information contained within that article, but a person would first have to know what is accurate and what is erroneous to pick it out. For that reason alone it is an unreliable and dangerous source to provide for a group filled with beginner hobbyists... especially when there are many fully accurate sources of data to access online on that topic. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Dawn, You didn't look very closely at the References if you find > little to support the major thesis of the wikipedia explanation of > the Parasite "has no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not > lie in wait for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " > > "Obviously the whole thing could have been written by a child . . . " ? > I think not. > There is a lot of good information within the article and it is worth > knowing it is there. > > One might check out the references: > http://www.metapathogen.com/ich/ > > Edward J. Noga, Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment > > http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/ , University of Florida, > Cooperative Extension Services > > http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Research/Whitespot.pdf > > Marshall Ostrow's book on Goldfish is also referenced and could be a > good starting point for our Goldfish keeper. > > AND TO JOHN's thought: > In 1992, I needed a way to check to see that I had added enough > Thiosulfate to completely remove the Chloramine from my tap water. > The amount of free Chlorine varied a lot month to month. I didn't > want to add too much Thiosulfate because it can drop the pH if used > in excess as it reacts with water and Oxygen releasing H2S and > Sulfuric acid. Just the correct amount is most economical as well. > > I found a good formula for OTO Chlorine test solution and doubled the > concentration of the active ingredient. I have offered this for sale > since. I use this liquid test solution to test every batch of change > water I draw. I have checked the water in a lot of fish tanks since > 1992 for Chlorine. I have been shocked at how much Chlorine most fish > will tolerate. Even my Killifish will live in 0.01 to 0.05ppm > Chlorine. However, if a tank is empty of fish and has just had a bout > with Ich, a complete water change with tap water would kill the free > swimming stages and the Chloramine could be replaced with a major > water change in a couple of days giving the life cycle of the > Parasite a bath of Chlorine for 7 to 10 days and one would not have > to add any chemicals to the tank to kill the Parasite, just cool it > off and treat with Chlorine remover and restart the Bio-cycle to be > Ich free. > > > >John, you are correct about chlorine being a dangerous way to > >attempt to treat any fish. Chlorine also kills beneficial bacteria > >on contact. Put simply, chlorine is toxic and that is one major > >reason why we in the fish hobby teach the use of water conditioners > >to all... to remove/detoxify the chlorine found in many water > >supplies. > >I read through that article at Wikipedia and was quite upset by the > >number of errors in their information. If you noticed, there was a > >tag/note in that article explaining that nobody claimed their place > >as author to that information and provided no references, thus that > >particular writing could at some point be removed if it is > >challenged. If I had the time to devote to it right now I would be > >contacting them at Wikipedia and challenging it myself. > > > >This is one more example of not believing everything you read just > >because it's on the internet. For all we know that article was > >written by a child or someone who has no real knowledge or > >experience with fish or ich. The way that article is written I > >would have to suspect it is one of those because it shows a large > >lack of knowledge about the topic. > > > >Dawn > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Charles, > >> > >> I was interested to see Chlorine treatment mentioned as one of the > >> options on the Wikipedia page for treating Koi & Goldfish-surely the > >> poisonous effects of the Chlorine would make this treatment deadly or am I > >> missing something? > >> > >> John*<o)))<* > >> > >> > >> On 31 May 2013 03:48, Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > >> > >> > ** > >> > > >> > > >> > Please reference: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis > >> > > > > > "There is no dormant stage in the lifecycle. Ich does not lie in wait > > > > for a weakened fish to infect. However, any facto . . . " > > > > > >> > There have been many serious investigations into the life cycle of > >> > the Protozoa. > >> > > >> > Also PLEASE Note: > >> > > >> > " Heat treatment > >> > Heat treatment can be highly effective, and it can be combined with > >> > other treatments. However, it can only be used on fish that can > >> > tolerate high water temperatures, and is unsuitable for cold water > >> > fish like koi and goldfish, but even in those cases, a higher water > >> > temperature will accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite, allowing > >> > other treatments to take effect sooner." > >> > > >> > ~~~~~~~~~ > >> > > >> > There is very good information in this reference and the references > > > > included. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54794	From: handsomestick	Date: 6/2/2013
Subject: Re: HELP MY GOLDFISH ARE SICK AND DYING

Have you tried to treat them with copper?, add to your tank a piece of copper decoration previously deinfected, copper metal has the property of killing bacteria, and you should keep your filters out of bio filtering, (no carbon), because carbon counter strikes the copper effect --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > My fish have fin rot and ick. I have been treating the water for almost > a week and a half, but none of the 3 fish are getting better. they are > in a hospital tank. two of the fish with fin rot now have tails that > look like they are strings- I cant bear to lose any more of my sweet > fish... I am very scared to lose them! What do I do?? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54795	From: Michelle	Date: 6/2/2013
Subject: Move sick fish?

Okay so the ick is now somewhat in my main tank, but its minor. Two of the three fish in the hospital tank passed away yesterday, the last fish severely has ick- if I move him into the big tank will it make him better because he is exposed to less of the ick or would that make the outbreak in my main tank worse? :(

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54796	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/3/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Dawn/all Appreciate your kind guidance please. Thanks & Regards Siva ________________________________ From: Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Dawn Thank you for your kind response.  EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  In case it helps, the water parameters are: KH-20 GH-13 ph-8.4 tds-800 Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. Thanks & Regards Siva ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi all > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > Regards > Siva > Bangalore,India > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54797	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi everyone, A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. We fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, NO3, and ammonia under control? Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 or 2.5" inches long, so far. Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should be added per gallon? Tanks, Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54798	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus) sighted off the Coast of Palestin

Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus Lilljeborg, 1861) sighted off the Mediterranean Coast of Palestine By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. The appearance of a gray whale (Eschrichtius robustus Lilljeborg, 1861) off the coast of Palestine in May 2010 has stunned scientists, in what was thought to be the first time the giant mammal has been seen outside the Pacific in several hundred years. The whale, which was first sighted off Herzliya, north of Jaffa in central Palestine on Saturday 8th May 2010, is believed to have travelled thousands of miles from the north Pacific after losing its way in search of food. "It's an unbelievable event which has been described as one of the most important whale sightings ever," said Dr. Aviad Scheinin, chairman of the Israel Marine Mammal Research and Assistance Center which identified the creature (The Independent, 2010). A population of gray whales once inhabited the north Atlantic but became extinct in the 17th or 18th centuries and has not been seen there since. The remaining colonies live in the western and eastern sectors of the north Pacific. "What has amazed the entire marine mammal research community is there haven't been any gray whales in the Atlantic since the 18th century," he said. Dr. Scheinin said the creature, a mature whale measuring some 12 metres (39 feet) and weighing around 20 tonnes, probably reached the Atlantic through the Northwest Passage, an Arctic sea route that connects the Pacific and Atlantic oceans and is normally covered with ice. Dr. Scheinin said: "Here you have an animal that is supposed to live in the Pacific and because the ice in the Arctic is melting, it managed to get through this corridor near the Bering Strait," (The Independent, 2010). The population which lives in the northeastern Pacific normally migrates southwards in around October, heading for warmer waters around the Gulf of California in a huge round trip of at least 5,000 miles (8,000 kilometres). So when autumn came, this particular gray whale began travelling south, keeping the land mass on the left and heading for the Californian Gulf with the aim of "turning left" into the bay. But instead, it reached Gibraltar and turned left into the Mediterranean and ended up off the shores of Palestine. "The question now is: are we going to see the re-colonisation of the Atlantic?" Dr. Scheinin said. "This is very important ecologically because of the change of habitat. It emphasises the climate change that we are going through." So far, the whale seems to be happy enough in the waters off the shores of Palestine. "It is pretty thin, which indicates the trip was quite harsh, but we think it can survive here," Dr. Scheinin said. "Gray whales are very generalist in what they feed on." Now experts are mulling the possibility of tracking the whale by satellite - a costly operation that would need outside funding and expertise, Dr. Scheinin said. "It's quite a big operation to do this. If it stays around here for the next month, it's worth having someone come in and do this professionally," he said. "It will be interesting to see where it goes and to follow it" (The Independent, 2010). References: Drake, Nadia (2011). Wayward whale not a fluke. Nature. Published online. 4 May 2011. Nature 473, 16 (2011), doi:10.1038/473016a. www.nature.com/news/2011/110504/full/473016a.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie't Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman (1982). A'maar Al-Haywanat (Animal Ages). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). Blue Whales (Balaenoptera musculus) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 14, Fifth Year, Shawal 1407 AH, June 1987 AD. pp. 1-14. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The Minke Whale (Balaenoptera acutorostrata) in the Zoologisches Forschungsinstitut und Museum Alexander Koenig, Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 26, Tenth Year, January 1992. pp. 1-3. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (in Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae'q Al-Nouma'n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Wale und Delphine Club Yahoo Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Waleunddelphine/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage (First Edition), Juli 2004: 452 Seiten. Zweite erweiterte Auflage, August 2004: 460 Seiten. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gazelle_Bulletin.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Die Wal Sonderausstellung "Delphinidae Delphionidae" und "Kleinwale in Nord- und Ostsee" im Museum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 35, Twenty-second Year, September 2004. pp. 1. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Der Schweinswal (Phocoena phocoena) in der Nord- und Ostsee...The Harbour Porpoise (Phocoena phocoena) in the North Sea and Baltic Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 36, Twenty-second Year, October 2004. pp. 1-7. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Thema des Tages (5. Januar 2005): In See gespuelter Indopazifischer Buckeldelfin (Sousa chinensis) in Thailand nach Tagen gerettet. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 37, Twenty-third Year, January 2005. pp. 1-3. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Yunus (Jonah) and the Whale. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 9-13. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palaestina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005: 376 Seiten. Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Aquatica_Arabica.html Khalaf, Norman Ali (2005, 2006). Chapter 3: Geography, Flora and Fauna. Pages 32-39. in: Palestine: A Guide. By Mariam Shahin, Photography by George Azar. Co-Author: Norman Ali Khalaf. Northampton, Massachusetts: Interlink Publishing Group, 2005, 2006. xi + 471 pages. Appendices to page 500. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2006). A Bryde's Whale (Balaenoptera edeni) Stranding on Al Mamzar Beach, Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 50. February 2006. pp. 1-5. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Brydes_Mamzar.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2006). Mammalia Arabica. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980-2006. / Mammalia Arabica. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980-2006. Erste Auflage, Juli 2006, 484 pp. Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Mammalia_Arabica.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). In: Wikipedia-Arabic, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, September 2007, Sha'ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (Article in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi'ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Cetacea_Palaestina.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 - 2009. / Fauna Emiratus – Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4. Erste Auflage/First Edition, November 2010: 350 Seiten / Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2012). Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus Lilljeborg, 1861) sighted off the Mediterranean Coast of Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 100, January 2012. pp. 1-6. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2012). Fauna Palaestina – Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 – 2009 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Zwei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 1983 – 2009. ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2. 1. Auflage / First Edition : July 2012, Shaaban 1433 H. 208 Seiten / Pages (Arabic Part 120 Pages and the English Part 88 Pages). Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart2.htm Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2013). Fauna Palaestina – Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 – 2012 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Drei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 2005 – 2012. ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7. Erste Auflage / First Edition : July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H. Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine. (In Publication). http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart3.htm Scheinin, Aviad P. , Dan Kerem, Colin D. Macleod, Manel Gazo, Carla A. Chicote and Manuel Castellote (2011). Gray whale (Eschrichtius robustus) in the Mediterranean Sea: anomalous event or early sign of climate-driven distribution change?. Marine Biodiversity Records, page 1-5. Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom, 2011, doi:10.1017/S1755267211000042; Vol. 4; e28; 2011. Published online. http://www.oceanicsociety.org/sites/default/files/images/pdf_files/Scheinin%20et%20al_Gray%20whale%20in%20the%20Med_MBR_2011%5B1%5D.pdf The Independent (2010). Scientists stunned as grey whale sighted off Israel. WEDNESDAY 12 MAY 2010. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/scientists-stunned-as-grey-whale-sighted-off-israel-1971890.html Walker, Matt (Editor, Earth News) (2010). Mediterranean gray whale appears 'back from the dead'. http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8672000/8672970.stm

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54799	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

I have a couple of other questions... can you post nitrate (NO3) results please? Do you have access to carbon to put into your filters? Do you perform regular gravel vacs with a vac tube instead of just churning up the gravel and removing the debris as it comes up from the water? Can you also tell us how big the tank is and what animals are in it? Are there live plants in it? Sorry for all the questions but the more info you can provide the easier it is to sort out where the odor may be coming from and how to best fix it. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn > > Thank you for your kind response.  > > EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) > EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) > > Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  > > In case it helps, the water parameters are: > > KH-20 > GH-13 > ph-8.4 > tds-800 > > Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same > > Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. > > Thanks & Regards > Siva > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > >   > Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > Hi all > > > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > > > Regards > > Siva > > Bangalore,India > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54800	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Dawn Thank you Dawn for your queries. Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite all zero. it is 6ftx2ftx2ft, 180G/640L. It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoils, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin, red tail sharkk  etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above.  I have not added carbon to filters. Little hesitant to add anything to water, i have just lost a 16 inch BGK and that was too dear to us, and i have one more around 14 inch, too hard to digest anything to them and the other fishes as they were all brought up from 1 in size or so. I have synodontis which is again a scaleless fish. Regular gravel vacs is to remove the debris, i not just remove the surface ones, also churn the sand using the vac tube and drain finer debris as well. Regards Siva ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:25 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   I have a couple of other questions... can you post nitrate (NO3) results please? Do you have access to carbon to put into your filters? Do you perform regular gravel vacs with a vac tube instead of just churning up the gravel and removing the debris as it comes up from the water? Can you also tell us how big the tank is and what animals are in it? Are there live plants in it? Sorry for all the questions but the more info you can provide the easier it is to sort out where the odor may be coming from and how to best fix it. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Dawn > > Thank you for your kind response.  > > EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) > EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) > > Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  > > In case it helps, the water parameters are: > > KH-20 > GH-13 > ph-8.4 > tds-800 > > Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same > > Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. > > Thanks & Regards > Siva > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > >   > Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > Hi all > > > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > > > Regards > > Siva > > Bangalore,India > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54801	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, With no plants in your tank to use your nitrate, if this nitrate (the end product of nitrification) is zero, then either your tank has no nitrogen cycle established, or you make 100% "partial" water changes, or your test results are very faulty. What type of test equipment do you use for obtaining a reading for your nitrate level? The nitrate level should show the result of the nitrite oxidation (the action of the nitrobacters on the nitrite). Since it can only be removed either by plants utilizing this nitrate as food, or by physically removing it in waste water when making regularly scheduled partial water changes -- both of which will keep it reduced, but never completely eliminated -- you must have some level of nitrate if you have a functioning nitrogen cycle. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54802	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need at least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 gallon tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. Not to mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 gallon tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 gallons of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as possible, get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave them to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less important as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I first got them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so dirty that you couldn't see the fish inside ect) Here's a time line of my fish: Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I Put the fish in the 55 gallon. Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. One fish died. Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather all winter. Put fish back into 55 gallon Put ad in the paper. Gave fish to first caller with a pond. Got some platies and a rainbow shark. Platies died of ick. Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) Got a few Tiger Barbs. And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than they are worth... The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. So, powerful filters are needed. You need a large tank. You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your test strips. Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. ________________________________ From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... Hi everyone, A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their first pets.  I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also.  We fixed that.  But we know nothing about keeping fish.  I found out our 5 gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or reduce the number of fish.  Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so we are down to 6.  I have a few questions, though. The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help keep the water clean (nitrites).  It seems like some people are implying that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed off if it becomes too dirty.  Is this correct. The tank water is cloudy.  This is supposed to clear up naturally over a few days or weeks, correct?  Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, NO3, and ammonia under control? Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous?  These fish are about 2 or 2.5" inches long, so far. Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in the water.  The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate.  I also bought some calcium chloride.  The hardness is getting better.  I also read that some people think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish.  So, my question is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should be added per gallon? Tanks, Ken [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54803	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ken, To answer your question about 4 Goldfish in a 10 gallon tank-the answer is yes, it is ridiculous but please do not be offended-you had no idea until these animals were dumped on you & it is great that you have taken the trouble to seek out some help so hopefully we can do just that. Ideally you want at least a 50 gallon tank immediately with a filter capable of running a 100 gallon tank because Goldfish make a lot more waste than other fish. The cloudyness is a bacterial bloom & can be diluted by frequent partial water changes. Have a look at this link: http://www.firsttankguide.net/goldfish.php It's not an idea page [The very excellent Goldfish & Aquarium Board advice seems to have closed down unfortunately] but this page will help you keep your fish alive for the immediate future, big filtration, large tanks & plenty of partial water changes are vital to keep these animals healthy & happy. I would advise against using any chemicals or minerals to artificially alter the make-up of your water other than water conditioner. Goldfish make a lot of waste so dilution is essential to stop them from suffocating because their waste removes the oxygen from the water. Can you give us your water readings for both tap & tank please, we need to know pH, NO2, NO3 & Ammonia. John*<o)))<* On 4 June 2013 20:58, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > ** > > > Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need at > least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 gallon > tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. Not to > mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 gallon > tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 gallons > of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. > > You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as possible, > get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. > > Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave them > to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. > > Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less important > as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I first got > them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so dirty that > you couldn't see the fish inside ect) > > Here's a time line of my fish: > Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. > Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. > Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. > Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) > Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I > Put the fish in the 55 gallon. > Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. > One fish died. > Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather > all winter. > Put fish back into 55 gallon > Put ad in the paper. > Gave fish to first caller with a pond. > Got some platies and a rainbow shark. > Platies died of ick. > Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) > Got a few Tiger Barbs. > > And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than > they are worth... > > The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the > charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel > vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get > one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full > test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price > range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change > and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. > > So, powerful filters are needed. > You need a large tank. > You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your > test strips. > Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. > > ________________________________ > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > > Hi everyone, > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 > small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their > first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. We > fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 > gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or > reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so > we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we > use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to > bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help > keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying > that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed > off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. > > The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a > few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, > NO3, and ammonia under control? > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 or > 2.5" inches long, so far. > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in > the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little > bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium > chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people > think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question > is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should > be added per gallon? > > Tanks, > Ken > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54804	From: harry perry	Date: 6/4/2013
Subject: Something to cosider.....

So, I have a brood of Betta fry I'm raising. Started BBS in enough time to catch them free swimming. Checked on the BBS, they were doing fine. Checked on them again in the morning. They were all dead. I have a bowl shaped shrimp hatchery. A cut out for the air hose and a hole in the center of the cover. I put a light over it and the BBS swim to the light and drop into a small basket. The best shrimp hatchery I've ever had. Anyhow when I took the cover off I found 4 dead stink bugs along with their smell. Their chemical must be toxic. I now cover all my tanks and the shrimp hatchery to keep them out. I have back up fry food. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54805	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ken, Even though you know nothing about fish, it's commendable that you're seeking out help -- and you couldn't have come to a better place for advice. While many people keep goldfish in aquariums, you've undoubtedly seen already that some members here are stating to use a larger (much larger) tank, and I see that you're already aware that your 5 gallon tank is overcrowded with having 6 goldfish (each about 2 1/2" long). It's apparent though, by you question of reducing the number of fish to four for this 5 gallon tank, that you're still not aware of their actual needs. I'd venture a guess, that when seeing tanks advised to you, as large as 50 gallons or such, that you may feel this is gross overkill in providing a tank for four "small" goldfish and that a tank this size is hugh in comparison to their size. You may even question the recommendations of such a large tank by these members, which is understandable when not knowing very much about fish -- and about goldfish in particular. To this end, we're here to help. To help you understand their needs, the six 2 1/2" goldfish you have are the exact same goldfish you'll find people having in their ponds, which reach at least 12" and quite often up to 14". They are the same species. Now, perhaps you can try to picture four 14" goldfish in you 5 gallon tank (LOL). Of course, they'll never make it, but you can't expect to properly house these four fish in such a small tank as they do need (lots of) room to grow. You can't even properly keep one goldfish in a 5 gallon tank without stunting them. Those unknowing goldfish keepers of years ago, keeping a single goldfish in a bowl were not providing the best conditions for them at all, since all goldfish have the potential to reach at least 12"; they are really pond fish. As I said though, some people today do keep them in aquariums, but they provide the fish with adaquate room by giving them the large tanks they require, which have been recommended here as starters. Keep this in mind, to properly house one common or Comet (straight-tail) goldfish in providing them with the most optimum conditions one can, for them to reach their full potential -- each goldfish actually needs 75 gallons each. There aren't oo many fish hobbyists willing to do this, but this is what they need. While a slightly smaller tank may be used -- provided their water condition needs are met -- this means changing more more more frequently, essentially putting a larger and larger burden on you as theyt grow, Right now, at only 2 1/2" long, they of course wouldn't need a tank even half the recommended size, but they grow fast and it would not be very responsible for a fish keeper to not provide them with their required living quarters as soon as can be supplied rather than waiting "until they need it." The cloudy water is most likely do to a bacterial bloom in the water -- often called "new tank syndrome" -- and is caused by nitrifying bacteria feeding on the ammonia that the fish is producing by their wastes. Goldfish especially, are heavy eaters and just as heavily waste producers; just one more reason why they need "oversize" tanks. Sorry to say, that under these conditions with you presently having six fish in the 5 gallon tank (or even if you had only four fish), you can't expect this cloudy water to just clear up in a few weeks -- it will not. Under more normal conditions of having a proper bioload and not being overcrowded, then yes, you may expect this to clear but not with this overload on this small environment. A normal rule of thumb for stocking a tank is to have no more than 1" of fish per gallon of water (this rule being useful for slender fish up to about 3" in length), and this takes into account that any fish included in this plan will be eventually full grown with this 1"/gallon scale. By this, you should have no more than two 2 1/2" fish in this tank -- IF THIS WERE TO BE THEIR FULL SIZE (at maturity) -- which we know it's not. But this may give you an understanding of just how much overstocked your tank is -- and will increasingly become as the fish grow. I see you're reading up on the filtration. Activated carbon (charcoal is no longer used) is used mainly for chemical filtration in absorbing impurities, not for biological filtration. There are other filter media (for biological filtration) which may be used in conjunction with the carbon and for that reason the carbon may be discarded and replaced if you prefer to use carbon. As activated carbon's useful life is indeterminate, but roughly estimated to be about 4 to 6 weeks, it can be changed out after that time but most hobbyists don't use it anymore (partly for this reason of it needing changing) and instead use media such as highly porous glass and ceramic granuals of similar size marketed for this expressed purpose. Getting back to carbon though, there had been indications that once it reached its capacity of absorbing impiurities, that it would start to release these impurities back into the water (another reason many hobbyists no longer use it). More recently though, there has been much controversy over whether this really happens or not. There are still some hobbyists who continue to use the same activated carbon indefinitely, and use it as a biological filtration medium (not really its intended purpose), but it can no longer be expected to absorb any impurities after all that time. I may need to tell you though, that when rinsing out any filter media, that it should never be rinsed under tap water (containing chlorine, etc., which kills nitrifying bacteria), but only in a bucket of aquarium water that you're removing at the time if doing a PWC (Partial Water Change). To help in maintaining your goldfish, your filter will eventually build up colonies of nitrifying bacteria which will break down the toxic ammonia into even more toxic nitrite and finally into relatively harmless nitrate. This process may take up to 6 weeks to complete though. In the meantime, you'll need to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels that are the cause of the fish excreting wastes every day -- by getting a master (having several individual tests) aquarium water test kit. You'll need to keep these organic wastes at a minimum or more fish will die from the results of these toxins. If you don't have any test equipment on hand yet, I'd advise that you make at least a 25% PWC now, but not before getting a water conditioner which will remove the toxic chlorine (or chloramine) that your water company is adding to your tap water. If you haven't used this when first adding the fish to the tank, perhaps this was why you lost one fish. I would not be very concerned about providing the correct minerals as most fish are somewhat flexible in their needs and will adapt, provided these water parameters aren't extreme to being too soft or too hard. It's much easier and much less stressful to the fish, when making PWC's (not containing the added minerals) to just maintain your tank at the same hardness as your tap water -- unless you're planning to add the removed minerals every time you make a PWC -- and when cycling a tank, you may need to make PWC's every other day to ensure your ammonia and nitrite isn't climbing too high before the cycle completes. Let us know if you have any questions. Ray -- (moderator) </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54806	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Ken, I'd just like to add here, that when buying a master test kit, that you get liquid test kits -- NOT test strips. A.P I. (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc.) has excellent liquid test kits that are easy to use, and well worth the money for this item vital to keeping fish in theier required water parameters. Test strips are notorious for often being inaccurate at best, and totally unreliable at their worst. The A.P.I. kit can be bought for around $20 (maybe a bit more) from most discount aquarium suppliers -- preobably a little more at full retail. The A.P.I Freshwater master kit includes tests for low range pH, high range pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It comes with four test tubes, color charts and instructions. Be sure to get the FRESHWATER test kit -- not the saltwater test kit. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54807	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

"Can you give us your water readings for both tap & tank please, we need to know pH, NO2, NO3 & Ammonia." Well, that's been kind of a problem. We went to the pet store to get some water testing supplies. We bought these Tetra EasyStrips you dip in the water (5-in-1 test), wait a few seconds, and then compare the colors to a chart. Problem is, the resultant colors sometimes don't match well to anything that is on the chart (they're not expired), so I feel like I'm just kind of guessing on some tests. In any case, the numbers as of right now, are... NO3=0ppm NO2=1.0-3.0ppm GH=25-75ppm Chlorine=0ppm KH=??test strip show lime green, but there is no such color on the chart, so I assume it might be between 0-80ppm pH=6.2-6.8 Is it a bad idea to change the water every day or every 3 days, rather than waiting a week or two? Honestly, changing some water really isn't a big deal to me. Also, it is bad for the fish if I use a power filter that cycles much more water than the tank size? For instance, could I use a 20 or 30 gallon unit on a 10 gallon tank? My concern is that maybe the impeller will cause a lot of suction and hurt the fish if it swims nearby the intake grid. Tanks, -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > To answer your question about 4 Goldfish in a 10 gallon tank-the answer is > yes, it is ridiculous but please do not be offended-you had no idea until > these animals were dumped on you & it is great that you have taken the > trouble to seek out some help so hopefully we can do just that. Ideally you > want at least a 50 gallon tank immediately with a filter capable of running > a 100 gallon tank because Goldfish make a lot more waste than other fish. > The cloudyness is a bacterial bloom & can be diluted by frequent partial > water changes. > > Have a look at this link: http://www.firsttankguide.net/goldfish.php > It's not an idea page [The very excellent Goldfish & Aquarium Board advice > seems to have closed down unfortunately] but this page will help you keep > your fish alive for the immediate future, big filtration, large tanks & > plenty of partial water changes are vital to keep these animals healthy & > happy. I would advise against using any chemicals or minerals to > artificially alter the make-up of your water other than water conditioner. > Goldfish make a lot of waste so dilution is essential to stop them from > suffocating because their waste removes the oxygen from the water. > > Can you give us your water readings for both tap & tank please, we need to > know pH, NO2, NO3 & Ammonia. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 4 June 2013 20:58, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need at > > least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 gallon > > tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. Not to > > mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 gallon > > tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 gallons > > of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. > > > > You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as possible, > > get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. > > > > Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave them > > to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. > > > > Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less important > > as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I first got > > them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so dirty that > > you couldn't see the fish inside ect) > > > > Here's a time line of my fish: > > Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. > > Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. > > Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. > > Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) > > Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I > > Put the fish in the 55 gallon. > > Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. > > One fish died. > > Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather > > all winter. > > Put fish back into 55 gallon > > Put ad in the paper. > > Gave fish to first caller with a pond. > > Got some platies and a rainbow shark. > > Platies died of ick. > > Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) > > Got a few Tiger Barbs. > > > > And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than > > they are worth... > > > > The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the > > charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel > > vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get > > one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full > > test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price > > range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change > > and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. > > > > So, powerful filters are needed. > > You need a large tank. > > You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your > > test strips. > > Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 > > small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their > > first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. We > > fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 > > gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or > > reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so > > we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. > > > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we > > use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to > > bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help > > keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying > > that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed > > off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. > > > > The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a > > few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, > > NO3, and ammonia under control? > > > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 or > > 2.5" inches long, so far. > > > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in > > the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little > > bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium > > chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people > > think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question > > is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should > > be added per gallon? > > > > Tanks, > > Ken > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54808	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Thanks, Amber. Maybe you or someone can tell me, if it is a good idea to re-use my filter bags. The bag is made of this flossy mesh, and keeps a square-ish form with a plastic grid inside. Along with the plastic is some charcoal inside. The bio-bag can be completely disassembled, so I was thinking I can just clean off the flossy bag, plastic insert, and add fresh charcoal, instead of buying new filters every 2 weeks. My only concern was that I read that nitrafying bacteria might be growing on the bio-bag, and I may not want to clean those off. So what is the advice? Completely new bags filters every two weeks or just clean off the old one and recharge the charcoal? I have a "internal" filter, where most of the unit including the "bio-bag", is submerged. I bought this unit because I read that they are quiet, and it really is whisper quiet. My uncle initially gave us the "power filter" that hangs outside the tank, and the thing was noisy as hell. Are internal filters a good kind, because I'm really appreciating the quiet? Tanks -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need at least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 gallon tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. Not to mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 gallon tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 gallons of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. > > You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as possible, get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. > > Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave them to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. > > Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less important as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I first got them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so dirty that you couldn't see the fish inside ect) > > Here's a time line of my fish: > Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. > Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. > Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. > Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) > Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I > Put the fish in the 55 gallon. > Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. > One fish died. > Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather all winter. > Put fish back into 55 gallon > Put ad in the paper. > Gave fish to first caller with a pond. > Got some platies and a rainbow shark. > Platies died of ick. > Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) > Got a few Tiger Barbs. > > And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than they are worth... > > The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. > > So, powerful filters are needed. > You need a large tank. > You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your test strips. > Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > Hi everyone, > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their first pets.  I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also.  We fixed that.  But we know nothing about keeping fish.  I found out our 5 gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or reduce the number of fish.  Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so we are down to 6.  I have a few questions, though. > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help keep the water clean (nitrites).  It seems like some people are implying that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed off if it becomes too dirty.  Is this correct. > > The tank water is cloudy.  This is supposed to clear up naturally over a few days or weeks, correct?  Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, NO3, and ammonia under control? > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous?  These fish are about 2 or 2.5" inches long, so far. > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in the water.  The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate.  I also bought some calcium chloride.  The hardness is getting better.  I also read that some people think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish.  So, my question is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should be added per gallon? > > Tanks, > Ken > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54809	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, I can only echo Ray's questions right now, wondering about your water change schedule, type of test kits used, and how long this tank has been set up? I have to assume at this point that this tank has been running for quite some time considering the growth of the fish you mentioned. A reading of 0 for nitrate is concerning and that should be the first problem addressed. In regards to using carbon in your filter... this will not harm your fish. Carbon serves 2 purposes in your filter. 1 it helps to remove toxins from the water (things such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate as well as things like medications, odors, colors, etc.) and 2 it offers extra surface area for bacteria to colonize, and those bacteria will also help to rid the water of ammonia and nitrite. This is important for a healthy tank. My first suggestion to you would be to go ahead and add carbon to the filter while we work on figuring out the unexpected readings from your test kits. If/when this tank goes through a cycle the carbon will help a bit to ease the fish through it. Once we know the answers to the questions we've just asked then we can move forward and advise you further. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn > > Thank you Dawn for your queries. > > Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite all zero. it is 6ftx2ftx2ft, 180G/640L. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoils, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin, red tail sharkk  etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above.  > > > I have not added carbon to filters. Little hesitant to add anything to water, i have just lost a 16 inch BGK and that was too dear to us, and i have one more around 14 inch, too hard to digest anything to them and the other fishes as they were all brought up from 1 in size or so. I have synodontis which is again a scaleless fish. > > Regular gravel vacs is to remove the debris, i not just remove the surface ones, also churn the sand using the vac tube and drain finer debris as well. > > Regards > Siva > > > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:25 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > >   > I have a couple of other questions... can you post nitrate (NO3) results please? Do you have access to carbon to put into your filters? Do you perform regular gravel vacs with a vac tube instead of just churning up the gravel and removing the debris as it comes up from the water? > Can you also tell us how big the tank is and what animals are in it? Are there live plants in it? > > Sorry for all the questions but the more info you can provide the easier it is to sort out where the odor may be coming from and how to best fix it. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dawn > > > > Thank you for your kind response.  > > > > EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) > > EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) > > > > Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  > > > > In case it helps, the water parameters are: > > > > KH-20 > > GH-13 > > ph-8.4 > > tds-800 > > > > Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same > > > > Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. > > > > Thanks & Regards > > Siva > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > > > > > >   > > Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > > > > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > > > > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > > > > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > > > > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > > > > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > > > > > Regards > > > Siva > > > Bangalore,India > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54810	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

I would like to clarify some info here... 50 - 75 gallons for a tank will work for a little while in this situation because the fish are so small, but if all of these fish survive they are going to eventually need much larger than even 75 gallons to raise them all to adult size. Comet goldfish/feeder goldfish (these are the streamlined species) will grow to 14 inches each as adult and they grow VERY fast when they are healthy. A 1 inch comet can easily reach 6-8 inches within the first year (if it's healthy), and full grown by the end of their 2nd year. Fancy goldfish (the fantail variety) will grow to 6 - 8 inches as adults, and again they do this quickly. A healthy fancy goldfish should reach adult size by the 3rd year. (picture a standard softball with fins) It may help to give yourself and your kids a visual by cutting out the fish shapes in these size ranges and then holding them up to your tank... or for fancy goldfish, get 6 softballs together and set them in front of the tank. This is an easy way to really picture how big these fish will get. As the others have already pointed out, goldfish are waste machines so heavy filtration and frequent water changes are a must. Goldfish also use more oxygen than the average aquarium fish, so keeping the temp cool (68 - 72) and adding an air stone will also help. If you choose to keep all 6 of these fish long term please expect to need a tank well over 100 gallons within the next year or 2. I disagree with the others who stated 10 gallons is suitable for the time being. 6 goldfish in the 1 - 2 inch range is already beyond max capacity for that tank, not to mention would be crowded in regards to space. I would suggest at least a 55 - 75 gallon tank right away until there is a bit of growth in these fish, at which time you will need to go larger. There is an alternative to consider here that I would also like to mention. If this sounds like a lot of work (and expense) in keeping these goldfish (it is), then maybe parting with the goldfish and replacing them with something more appropriate for the tank you already have would be an option? You may want to ask your LFS if they will take these goldfish from you in exchange for credit towards appropriate fish so you can then empty the tank and start over the right way, safely... cycle the tank and then begin adding fish 1 - 2 at a time until you have found your full population. There are a lot of options for fish that will stay small enough to remain in a 10 gallon tank long term. White clouds and gold white clouds wouldn't need a heater, so you could even maintain this tank as a cold water environment that way if you choose. Guppies, rasboras, some of the smaller tetras, danios... (would all need a heater) and the list goes on. If you were to stick to species of fish that stayed 1 inch or less for adult size you could safely get 5 - 7 fish in there and call it a permanent situation and much less work than the goldfish will be. I will also suggest you get yourself a liquid master test kit that includes ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH tests. API makes a wonderful test kit that is reasonably priced and known to be accurate. Whether you keep the goldfish or decide to replace them with smaller fish, you're going to need those test kits. When you post for help it's going to be important to include those test readings so the rest of us can get a clearer picture of what is happening with your water chemistry. Test results will determine how often you need to do water changes and how much water to change at a time. So that's where to start... tough choices to make right now. I'm sorry that your uncle put you in such a situation but thank you for seeking help rather than just watching all these fish die, which would surely happen if they remain as they are now. Best of luck to you. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having their first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. We fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. > > The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, NO3, and ammonia under control? > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 or 2.5" inches long, so far. > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should be added per gallon? > > Tanks, > Ken >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54811	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ken, In theory yes it is a good thing to re-use filter material instead of throwing it away regularly because you are then throwing away the good bacteria that keeps your eco-system ticking over nicely & starting from scratch every so often is going to give you high toxins levels because there is no good bacteria to eat it-hence you cloudy water recently. However-as Ray said the charcoal will start to become poisonous after a few weeks when it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into your tank. I don't know what type of filter you have [can you tell us make & model number/name please?] If possible can you replace the carbon with inert media such as polyester foam or ceramic chips? This is because they hold a lot more good bacteria than carbon but more importantly they improve with age. Priority of course is to keep those partial water changes going so that you are constantly diluting anything nasty in the water. Those test results you reported are, unfortunately indicative of the strips-highly suspect & inaccurate. Basically when you put fish into an uncycled tank there are 3 stages to work through before the eco system kicks in. 1. The ammonia reading produced by the fish waste will climb, peak then die off to zero as the first of the good bacteria get to work eating it after a week or two. 2. Another deadly toxin-nitrite/NO2 is produced by the first process & this too climbs & falls as a second batch of good bugs get to work probably after 3 or 4 weeks. 3. The third stage after the nitrite dies is the production of nitrate/NO3 which is organic waste. This is far less dangerous than ammonia or nitrite but unfortunately there are no good bacteria that eat it so this toxin is removed by our partial water changes. Your test results from the strips are going to be out somewhat & that is why Ray suggested the API Master Test Kit. However-going through your results as they are: NO3=0 Probably correct as there is not yet any end product [see 3 above] NO2=1.0-3.0ppm Seems high for such a new tank There is no ammonia reading but I would guess the levels are very high with so many fish in such a tiny space. GH & KH I wouldn't worry about that at this stage. pH 6.2-6.8 rather low for Goldfish although this could well be the strips not giving you the correct reading. In general a stable pH is far more beneficial than the 'correct' one within reason. Chlorine=0 hopefully that is correct! Regarding water changes I would just say what another member of this group has on his signature & that is to "Change as much water as often as you can" because dilution is the key to success in just about every kind of aquatic system. John*<o)))<* On 5 June 2013 11:31, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks, Amber. > > Maybe you or someone can tell me, if it is a good idea to re-use my filter > bags. The bag is made of this flossy mesh, and keeps a square-ish form with > a plastic grid inside. Along with the plastic is some charcoal inside. The > bio-bag can be completely disassembled, so I was thinking I can just clean > off the flossy bag, plastic insert, and add fresh charcoal, instead of > buying new filters every 2 weeks. My only concern was that I read that > nitrafying bacteria might be growing on the bio-bag, and I may not want to > clean those off. So what is the advice? Completely new bags filters every > two weeks or just clean off the old one and recharge the charcoal? > > I have a "internal" filter, where most of the unit including the > "bio-bag", is submerged. I bought this unit because I read that they are > quiet, and it really is whisper quiet. My uncle initially gave us the > "power filter" that hangs outside the tank, and the thing was noisy as > hell. Are internal filters a good kind, because I'm really appreciating the > quiet? > > Tanks > -Ken > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > > > Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need > at least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 > gallon tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. > Not to mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 > gallon tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 > gallons of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. > > > > You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as > possible, get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. > > > > Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave > them to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. > > > > Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less > important as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I > first got them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so > dirty that you couldn't see the fish inside ect) > > > > Here's a time line of my fish: > > Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. > > Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. > > Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. > > Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) > > Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I > > Put the fish in the 55 gallon. > > Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. > > One fish died. > > Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather > all winter. > > Put fish back into 55 gallon > > Put ad in the paper. > > Gave fish to first caller with a pond. > > Got some platies and a rainbow shark. > > Platies died of ick. > > Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) > > Got a few Tiger Barbs. > > > > And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than > they are worth... > > > > The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the > charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel > vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get > one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full > test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price > range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change > and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. > > > > So, powerful filters are needed. > > You need a large tank. > > You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your > test strips. > > Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters > 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having > their first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. > We fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 > gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or > reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so > we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. > > > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we > use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to > bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help > keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying > that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed > off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. > > > > The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a > few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, > NO3, and ammonia under control? > > > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 > or 2.5" inches long, so far. > > > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in > the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little > bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium > chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people > think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question > is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should > be added per gallon? > > > > Tanks, > > Ken > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54812	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Dawn Thanks Dawn. PWC is done alternate days, when i get this smell, i do it consecutive days(perhaps 4 days or so and then it gets alright). PWC should be about 30%. The tank is about 2.5 yrs old, and i had a relocation some 7 months back but then substrate, filter etc all i did not clean while shifting to preserve bacteria, as i had to fill a large volume of water in the new place.   Let me also try to correlate with filter cleaning, i plan to take one of the filters off this weekend, will check all the 3 once again. I use API master kit. I will figure out how to add carbon in filter, or perhaps keep it in a net and let it lie near the filter outlet should be enough ? i have filtermedia filled up according to the manuals. I will update once again   Rgds Siva ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:00 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, I can only echo Ray's questions right now, wondering about your water change schedule, type of test kits used, and how long this tank has been set up? I have to assume at this point that this tank has been running for quite some time considering the growth of the fish you mentioned. A reading of 0 for nitrate is concerning and that should be the first problem addressed. In regards to using carbon in your filter... this will not harm your fish. Carbon serves 2 purposes in your filter. 1 it helps to remove toxins from the water (things such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate as well as things like medications, odors, colors, etc.) and 2 it offers extra surface area for bacteria to colonize, and those bacteria will also help to rid the water of ammonia and nitrite. This is important for a healthy tank. My first suggestion to you would be to go ahead and add carbon to the filter while we work on figuring out the unexpected readings from your test kits. If/when this tank goes through a cycle the carbon will help a bit to ease the fish through it. Once we know the answers to the questions we've just asked then we can move forward and advise you further. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn > > Thank you Dawn for your queries. > > Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite all zero. it is 6ftx2ftx2ft, 180G/640L. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoils, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin, red tail sharkk  etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above.  > > > I have not added carbon to filters. Little hesitant to add anything to water, i have just lost a 16 inch BGK and that was too dear to us, and i have one more around 14 inch, too hard to digest anything to them and the other fishes as they were all brought up from 1 in size or so. I have synodontis which is again a scaleless fish. > > Regular gravel vacs is to remove the debris, i not just remove the surface ones, also churn the sand using the vac tube and drain finer debris as well. > > Regards > Siva > > > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:25 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > >   > I have a couple of other questions... can you post nitrate (NO3) results please? Do you have access to carbon to put into your filters? Do you perform regular gravel vacs with a vac tube instead of just churning up the gravel and removing the debris as it comes up from the water? > Can you also tell us how big the tank is and what animals are in it? Are there live plants in it? > > Sorry for all the questions but the more info you can provide the easier it is to sort out where the odor may be coming from and how to best fix it. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dawn > > > > Thank you for your kind response.  > > > > EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) > > EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) > > > > Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  > > > > In case it helps, the water parameters are: > > > > KH-20 > > GH-13 > > ph-8.4 > > tds-800 > > > > Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same > > > > Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. > > > > Thanks & Regards > > Siva > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > > > > > >   > > Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > > > > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > > > > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > > > > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > > > > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > > > > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > > > > > Regards > > > Siva > > > Bangalore,India > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54813	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hey guys, Well, thanks for all the help. We decided that it will be better for us to let all the fish go. There is no way we can provide them what they really need. Our apartment is very small, and the landlord technically doesn't allow pets. I could probably do a 20 gallon tank, max. But that's still not even half of what they need. Which is too bad, because I have actually gotten quite fond of the little guys over the past few days. They even seems to know when we are around and appear excited and very ready to eat. Anyway, what is the best way to "get rid" of goldfish? Except for the one fancy one we have (my daughter named him "King Fat"), I think the others are just standard goldfish. I will post some pictures tomorrow. So do people usually take them to a pet shop and give them up, or do you post them on Ebay or what? I don't think they are worth very much. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > In theory yes it is a good thing to re-use filter material instead of > throwing it away regularly because you are then throwing away the good > bacteria that keeps your eco-system ticking over nicely & starting from > scratch every so often is going to give you high toxins levels because > there is no good bacteria to eat it-hence you cloudy water recently. > However-as Ray said the charcoal will start to become poisonous after a few > weeks when it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into your tank. > I don't know what type of filter you have [can you tell us make & model > number/name please?] If possible can you replace the carbon with inert > media such as polyester foam or ceramic chips? This is because they hold a > lot more good bacteria than carbon but more importantly they improve with > age. Priority of course is to keep those partial water changes going so > that you are constantly diluting anything nasty in the water. > > Those test results you reported are, unfortunately indicative of the > strips-highly suspect & inaccurate. Basically when you put fish into an > uncycled tank there are 3 stages to work through before the eco system > kicks in. > > 1. The ammonia reading produced by the fish waste will climb, peak then die > off to zero as the first of the good bacteria get to work eating it after a > week or two. > 2. Another deadly toxin-nitrite/NO2 is produced by the first process & this > too climbs & falls as a second batch of good bugs get to work probably > after 3 or 4 weeks. > 3. The third stage after the nitrite dies is the production of nitrate/NO3 > which is organic waste. This is far less dangerous than ammonia or nitrite > but unfortunately there are no good bacteria that eat it so this toxin is > removed by our partial water changes. > > Your test results from the strips are going to be out somewhat & that is > why Ray suggested the API Master Test Kit. However-going through your > results as they are: > > NO3=0 Probably correct as there is not yet any end product [see 3 above] > NO2=1.0-3.0ppm Seems high for such a new tank > There is no ammonia reading but I would guess the levels are very high > with so many fish in such a tiny space. > GH & KH I wouldn't worry about that at this stage. > pH 6.2-6.8 rather low for Goldfish although this could well be the strips > not giving you the correct reading. In general a stable pH is far more > beneficial than the 'correct' one within reason. > Chlorine=0 hopefully that is correct! > > Regarding water changes I would just say what another member of this group > has on his signature & that is to "Change as much water as often as you > can" because dilution is the key to success in just about every kind of > aquatic system. > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 5 June 2013 11:31, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Thanks, Amber. > > > > Maybe you or someone can tell me, if it is a good idea to re-use my filter > > bags. The bag is made of this flossy mesh, and keeps a square-ish form with > > a plastic grid inside. Along with the plastic is some charcoal inside. The > > bio-bag can be completely disassembled, so I was thinking I can just clean > > off the flossy bag, plastic insert, and add fresh charcoal, instead of > > buying new filters every 2 weeks. My only concern was that I read that > > nitrafying bacteria might be growing on the bio-bag, and I may not want to > > clean those off. So what is the advice? Completely new bags filters every > > two weeks or just clean off the old one and recharge the charcoal? > > > > I have a "internal" filter, where most of the unit including the > > "bio-bag", is submerged. I bought this unit because I read that they are > > quiet, and it really is whisper quiet. My uncle initially gave us the > > "power filter" that hangs outside the tank, and the thing was noisy as > > hell. Are internal filters a good kind, because I'm really appreciating the > > quiet? > > > > Tanks > > -Ken > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@> wrote: > > > > > > Goldfish, assuming they are the cheap kind (common or comet) will need > > at least a 40 gallon tank for a single one. I'd have around a 55 to 70 > > gallon tank for all of them. Goldfish grow fast and can be stunted easily. > > Not to mention that they are gigantic waste producers. I had four in a 55 > > gallon tank and that thing was constantly dirty. You'll need at least 100 > > gallons of filtration on a 55 gallon tank. > > > > > > You can get away with a 10 gallon for right now. But, as soon as > > possible, get either a plastic pond or a large fish tank. > > > > > > Goldfish can grow very large, as well. Mine were 8 inches when I gave > > them to a lady with a pond. I'd had them for quite a few years, as well. > > > > > > Cycling is important, but with goldfish I consider it to be less > > important as with more sensitive fish. Mine survived my stupidity when I > > first got them (changing all of the water in the tank, letting it get so > > dirty that you couldn't see the fish inside ect) > > > > > > Here's a time line of my fish: > > > Got 5 goldfish and 5 gallon tank with 2-10 gallon filter. > > > Got 10 gallon with 15 gallon filter. > > > Got another 10 gallon with 10-30 gallon filter. > > > Split the fish in half (2 in one, 3 in the other) > > > Got a 55 gallon tank for 25 dollars and another filter (50 gallon) I > > > Put the fish in the 55 gallon. > > > Strange leak made me put them back into the 10 gallons. > > > One fish died. > > > Got the tank fixed after it sat outside in the cold and snow and weather > > all winter. > > > Put fish back into 55 gallon > > > Put ad in the paper. > > > Gave fish to first caller with a pond. > > > Got some platies and a rainbow shark. > > > Platies died of ick. > > > Got a pair of bala sharks (o.O bad idea!...) > > > Got a few Tiger Barbs. > > > > > > And that brings us to today! So, I believe goldfish to be more work than > > they are worth... > > > > > > The charcoal is meant to keep the water clear. I'd try replacing the > > charcoal filter and changing 1/2 the water in your tank and doing a gravel > > vac. if possible. You probably don't have a gravel vacuum yet, but I'd get > > one soon. Also, while you are at it, buy some ammonia test strips. A full > > test kit would be nice but I don't know if that's outside of your price > > range or not... If you get a reading of ammonia, do a partial water change > > and then test again. That way, you can keep the water clean. > > > > > > So, powerful filters are needed. > > > You need a large tank. > > > You need to change water every time you get an ammonia reading on your > > test strips. > > > Never do a 100% water change unless absolutely necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 5:52 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > A week ago, my uncle annoyingly (out of the blue) just gave my daughters > > 7 small goldfish in a 5 gallon tank, and they fell in love with having > > their first pets. I think he also gave us the wrong food for them, also. > > We fixed that. But we know nothing about keeping fish. I found out our 5 > > gallon is overstocked. So the first thing to do is get a bigger tank or > > reduce the number of fish. Unfortunately, one of our fish died today, so > > we are down to 6. I have a few questions, though. > > > > > > The charcoal-filled filter bag that is part of the Internal filter we > > use...it seems like websites are saying that a bacteria population need to > > bloom so that it can become part of the ongoing environmental cycle to help > > keep the water clean (nitrites). It seems like some people are implying > > that the charcoal-filled bag filter should not be replaced, but just rinsed > > off if it becomes too dirty. Is this correct. > > > > > > The tank water is cloudy. This is supposed to clear up naturally over a > > few days or weeks, correct? Even if I keep adding chemicals to keep NO2, > > NO3, and ammonia under control? > > > > > > Would 4 fish in a 10 gallon tank be ridiculous? These fish are about 2 > > or 2.5" inches long, so far. > > > > > > Also, I became interested in the issue of having the correct minerals in > > the water. The hardness of my water is very soft, I increased it a little > > bit by adding a little magnesium sulfate. I also bought some calcium > > chloride. The hardness is getting better. I also read that some people > > think adding sodium chloride is also helpful to goldfish. So, my question > > is, what ratio should these minerals be to each other, and how much should > > be added per gallon? > > > > > > Tanks, > > > Ken > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54814	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Ray Thank you  for your kind response..  My PWCs are alternate days, 30% or so. I guess i am through with "settling down" as the tank has been in use for 2.5 yrs, did a recent relocation about 7 months back except water, which i had to empty due to large quantity, fiter media, substrate every thing carried fwd without washing before shifting to carry fwd the beneficial bacteria to the new place. i used the tank water to transport the fishes, hence the established water was added to a limited extent and rest is new water in the new place.  I use API master test kit. I will check once again and share the results. Rgds Siva ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2013 4:58 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, With no plants in your tank to use your nitrate, if this nitrate (the end product of nitrification) is zero, then either your tank has no nitrogen cycle established, or you make 100% "partial" water changes, or your test results are very faulty. What type of test equipment do you use for obtaining a reading for your nitrate level? The nitrate level should show the result of the nitrite oxidation (the action of the nitrobacters on the nitrite). Since it can only be removed either by plants utilizing this nitrate as food, or by physically removing it in waste water when making regularly scheduled partial water changes -- both of which will keep it reduced, but never completely eliminated -- you must have some level of nitrate if you have a functioning nitrogen cycle. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54815	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ken, Many hobbyists reuse their "flossy mesh" filter bags and just replace the activated carbon in them. This is easily done by using a razor blade to make a slit across the top of one of the sides of this bag, dumping the old carbon out and adding new. Some hobbyists replace this carbon with a filter medium designed for biological filtration. I don't understand your concern about the nitrifying bacteria possibly being "cleaned off" if you clean these filter bags. If you change them out for new ones every 2 weeks (which you shouldn't do), you'll be starting out knowing you have absolutely no nitrifying bacteria twice a month. To maintain your cycle, the filter bags should only be changed when absolutely necessary -- and many hobbyists continue using them indefinitely. I might understand your concern about the carbon's active life being used up after 4 to 6 weeks, which would necessitate changing these cartridges, but this problem can be circumvented by just exchanging the carbon (or replacing it with porous ceramic particles. etc.), retaining the cartridge's bag. When cleaning these flossy mesh cartridge bags, never run them under the fawcet but always rinse them in old tank water that you're removing at the time of doing a PWC. Tap water -- containing chlorine or chloramine -- can kill off a portion of the nitrifying bacteria, reducing the effectiveness of your cycle. While the extent of this die-off may vary, depending on a number of factors not the least of which is the temperature of the tap water and it's ability to hold a lessor or greater amount of these disinfectant additives, the nitrobacter populations will invariably suffer at least some portion of a loss. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54816	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi John, Thanks for your support on some of the points I've expressed, but to clarify one you may need to reread my post. Please note, that I did not say that the charcoal (carbon) will start to become poisonous after a few weeks, when it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into one's tank. To clarify, while I said -- there HAD been indications that once it reached its capacity of absorbing impurities, that it would start to release these impurities back into the water -- I went on to say that -- More recently though, there has been much controversy over whether this happens or not. As I included in parenthesis, this earlier understanding (of carbon releasing toxins back into the water) is -- another reason many hobbyists no longer use it -- (whether still justified or not). More recently though, this understanding has become controversial and nothing has really been resolved over whether carbon (or charcoal) will actually behave this way. As such, while I can no longer support this earlier theory (I don't think it had been proven), my take on this issue is that I'd still recommend not to use activated carbon after 4 weeks -- or after 6 weeks at most in a more sparsely stocked tank -- and this is only if the hobbyist still prefers to use carbon, which really isn't necessary when there are other methods of removing impurities -- not the least of which is partial water changes. After all, why take the chance that the impurities can be leached back into the water, even IF it's not a fact -- and I use "IF" here as we don't know if it's a fact or not. Initially, charcoal was used in the hobby at a time when it was universally recommended not to make PWC's very often as "old water" was valued as being more habitable for fishes (and I use the term "fishes" here as the accepted scientific way of referring to more than one species). The newer understanding that PWC's are the most beneficial way of maintaining fishes in as an impurity-free water as possible, closest to matching the environs of their natural habitat water, has made the use of carbon obsolete (at best) and even POSSIBLY hazardous (at worst) -- even if its releasing of impurities has not been proven. Manufacturers will still try to push using it though, as it's highly profitable when changed out every month. While on this subject though, I'll briefly cover a bit on charcoal (if it's even still available). When this filter medium was at its most popular (50 to 60 years ago), a method to "recharge" it after its use was to first boil it and then to spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it in the oven for about 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know if this method was even proven either, but many hobbyist at that time adopted this way of "rejuvenating" it. Ray. </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54817	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, After reading your posts about your moving and resetting this tank up after your move, I find a possible link to this move and your methods of carrying out the transfer and restoration of this tank as an aquarium again, to be a possible link to its odor. I noticed you tranferred the fish in tank water -- but not in the tank -- but most probably in buckets (or styrofoam fish boxes with bags); nothing wrong with this but I'm just trying to clarify what you did here. Now, getting to the substrate -- which you "carried forward" (relocated/moved?) without washing -- to carry forward the beneficial bacteria to the new place. This was not made clear exactly how you did this, but I suspect it was not done properly (although I don't know without your further input). Only if you carried the substrate as it was, in the tank, without disturbing it (and you may have?) -- and the surface of this substrate kept wet -- would the beneficial bacteria have survived. As the aerobic nitrifying bacteria is found only in the first 1/2" or so of the top surface of the substrate, ideally the substrate would have to be kept intact/undisturbed; not easy (nor recommended) to do if this were a large tank having a lot of weight. If however, you removed this substrate to buckets to transport it, to preserve this beneficial bacteria you would have needed to first remove only the first 1/2" of the substrate and place it in its own container. Then, after replacing the remaining portion of the substrate you brought with you back into the tank after the move, you would cover this with the 1/2" layer of nitrifying bacteria-laden substrate you transported separately. If you did not do this, and if this is the way you moved all your substrate, the buried beneficial bacteria no longer survives if it was all mixed in with the rest of the substrate. Also, if you moved your substrate by just scooping it into buckets without segregating the upper 1/2" w/bacteria, you obviously would have also buried any excess food and fish waste found in the first 3/4" of the subtrate's top layer. This will start rotting (putrifying) fast, by the action of anaerobic bacteria, producing all sorts of odors. This can become toxic and may be why you lost that one large fish. If you didn't take precautions to separate the 1/2" layer of beneficial bacteria before your move, you should have washed it all thoroughly, since burying it was going to kill the bacteria anyway. Depending on how you handled your substrate, you may well need to do a complete cleaning of it, which does not necessarily mean tearing the tank down if you have an Aqueon (Python) hose/water changer with a gravel cleaner attachment for deep cleaning it in portions. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54818	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Kn, Seeing as you can't properly provide for these goldfish's needs, you've reached the right decision in rehoming them. While they're not worth very much monitarily, they could be priceless pets to somone who has the right facilities. I doubt it would be worth it to anyone on eBay (or AquaBid) to have them shipped to them, so offerring them on line may not be the best idea -- unless they can pick them up. Pet shops should usually take them, most often in exchange for other fish or merchandise, but again you can't expect very much for regular goldfish. Just be sure that they don't intend on reselling them as "feeder fish." If you can keep a 20 gallon tank set up, we'll be looking forward to you and the family as new fish hobbyists. Even if you can keep the 5 gallon tank going, you could put 5 Celestial Pearl Danio's in that tank (note, not just plain Pearl Danio's; a different and larger species). They're also still called Galaxy Rasboras sometimes even though the name was changed. They're related to Goldfish, but only reach about 1" in length -- and they're extremely colorful. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54819	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ray, Apologies if I was out of line saying carbon was poisonous as I completely understand the situation you have talked about regarding carbon & it's abilities for removing toxins. I was merely trying to convey in layman's terms to a newcomer about the dangers of using carbon without going into the details because I thought Ken already had enough to consider without adding to his problems so my saying it was poisonous [which it may be if left too long in the system] was perhaps an over simplification but intended to take the carbon out of the equation in case it added to his problems. John*<o)))<* John On 6 June 2013 13:06, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Thanks for your support on some of the points I've expressed, but to > clarify one you may need to reread my post. Please note, that I did not > say that > the charcoal (carbon) will start to become poisonous after a few weeks, > when > it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into one's tank. To > clarify, while I said -- there HAD been indications that once it reached > its > capacity of absorbing impurities, that it would start to release these > impurities > back into the water -- I went on to say that -- More recently though, > there > has been much controversy over whether this happens or not. As I included > in parenthesis, this earlier understanding (of carbon releasing toxins > back > into the water) is -- another reason many hobbyists no longer use it -- > (whether still justified or not). > > More recently though, this understanding has become controversial and > nothing has really been resolved over whether carbon (or charcoal) will > actually > behave this way. As such, while I can no longer support this earlier > theory > (I don't think it had been proven), my take on this issue is that I'd > still > recommend not to use activated carbon after 4 weeks -- or after 6 weeks at > most in a more sparsely stocked tank -- and this is only if the hobbyist > still prefers to use carbon, which really isn't necessary when there are > other > methods of removing impurities -- not the least of which is partial water > changes. After all, why take the chance that the impurities can be leached > back into the water, even IF it's not a fact -- and I use "IF" here as we > don't know if it's a fact or not. > > Initially, charcoal was used in the hobby at a time when it was > universally > recommended not to make PWC's very often as "old water" was valued as > being > more habitable for fishes (and I use the term "fishes" here as the > accepted > scientific way of referring to more than one species). The newer > understanding that PWC's are the most beneficial way of maintaining fishes > in as an > impurity-free water as possible, closest to matching the environs of their > natural habitat water, has made the use of carbon obsolete (at best) and > even > POSSIBLY hazardous (at worst) -- even if its releasing of impurities has > not > been proven. Manufacturers will still try to push using it though, as it's > highly profitable when changed out every month. > > While on this subject though, I'll briefly cover a bit on charcoal (if > it's > even still available). When this filter medium was at its most popular (50 > to 60 years ago), a method to "recharge" it after its use was to first > boil > it and then to spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it in the oven for > about 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know if this method was even proven > either, but > many hobbyist at that time adopted this way of "rejuvenating" it. > > Ray. </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54820	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/6/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ken, A few ideas you could try for getting rid of your fish, firstly you could post them on a local web site such as Gumtree, Freecycle or Craigslist-pond fish free to good home. Otherwise, as Ray said you could take them to a local pet store but beware if the store is unscrupulous they may not just get sold as Feeder Fish [food for other species] or worse still they may end up being dumped in a trash bin once you leave the shop, I've heard of such things. Probably the best way to go along that route is a small aquatic only store rather than a general pet supplier because they will likely have more interest in the welfare of these animals. Perhaps you or one of your family & friends know of someone with a pond who could take them? Failing that I wonder if one of your local stores has a notice board for small ads where you could advertise them as Pond Fish? Let us know what happens! John*<o)))<* On 6 June 2013 20:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Kn, > > Seeing as you can't properly provide for these goldfish's needs, you've > reached the right decision in rehoming them. While they're not worth very > much > monitarily, they could be priceless pets to somone who has the right > facilities. I doubt it would be worth it to anyone on eBay (or AquaBid) to > have > them shipped to them, so offerring them on line may not be the best idea > -- > unless they can pick them up. Pet shops should usually take them, most > often > in exchange for other fish or merchandise, but again you can't expect very > much for regular goldfish. Just be sure that they don't intend on > reselling > them as "feeder fish." > > If you can keep a 20 gallon tank set up, we'll be looking forward to you > and the family as new fish hobbyists. Even if you can keep the 5 gallon > tank > going, you could put 5 Celestial Pearl Danio's in that tank (note, not > just > plain Pearl Danio's; a different and larger species). They're also still > called Galaxy Rasboras sometimes even though the name was changed. They're > related to Goldfish, but only reach about 1" in length -- and they're > extremely colorful. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54821	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Low light plants.

So, you go to your LFS and you see all these beautiful live  plants. Some of them are red. So you buy some. And in two weeks you have your own home made swamp. They melted. More accurately they died and decomposed because they didn't have enough light. The average covers and lights that come with your tank set-up are considered low light or low tech they are approx. 1 to 2 watts per gallon. High tech or high light are considered 3,4 or 5 watts per gallon along with CO2 and ferts. Here is  a list of low light plants. More than enough for a beautiful tank. One of them is actually red and their is a carpet plant also. You could print this out and take it with you, the next time you buy plants. Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' Rotala Indica - Rotala indica Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' Downoi - Pogostemon helferi *Do not ned high light to attain pink color. Dosing Iron can bring out this color. I have learned this from experience. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54822	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Thank, John. Until I do finally get the fish new homes, should I just partial change the water everyday? I have a feeling it will take some time to get the fish new homes. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > A few ideas you could try for getting rid of your fish, firstly you could > post them on a local web site such as Gumtree, Freecycle or Craigslist-pond > fish free to good home. Otherwise, as Ray said you could take them to a > local pet store but beware if the store is unscrupulous they may not just > get sold as Feeder Fish [food for other species] or worse still they may > end up being dumped in a trash bin once you leave the shop, I've heard of > such things. Probably the best way to go along that route is a small > aquatic only store rather than a general pet supplier because they will > likely have more interest in the welfare of these animals. Perhaps you or > one of your family & friends know of someone with a pond who could take > them? Failing that I wonder if one of your local stores has a notice board > for small ads where you could advertise them as Pond Fish? > > Let us know what happens! > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 6 June 2013 20:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Kn, > > > > Seeing as you can't properly provide for these goldfish's needs, you've > > reached the right decision in rehoming them. While they're not worth very > > much > > monitarily, they could be priceless pets to somone who has the right > > facilities. I doubt it would be worth it to anyone on eBay (or AquaBid) to > > have > > them shipped to them, so offerring them on line may not be the best idea > > -- > > unless they can pick them up. Pet shops should usually take them, most > > often > > in exchange for other fish or merchandise, but again you can't expect very > > much for regular goldfish. Just be sure that they don't intend on > > reselling > > them as "feeder fish." > > > > If you can keep a 20 gallon tank set up, we'll be looking forward to you > > and the family as new fish hobbyists. Even if you can keep the 5 gallon > > tank > > going, you could put 5 Celestial Pearl Danio's in that tank (note, not > > just > > plain Pearl Danio's; a different and larger species). They're also still > > called Galaxy Rasboras sometimes even though the name was changed. They're > > related to Goldfish, but only reach about 1" in length -- and they're > > extremely colorful. > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54823	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

So, in response to this, what do you think of my choice in plants? And with the Telanthera being a red plant, should I get iron as well? I haven't started this project yet but I am planning on doing it soon. :) First of all, I'll be using 15 pounds of CaribSea's FloraMax planted aquarium substrate. I will also add someAPI CO2 Plant Booster and API Leaf Zone. The plants will be: Dwarf Hairgrass (For a carpet; Eleocharis acicularis) Four Leaf Clover (Marsilea quadrifolia) Bacopa Carolina and Telanthera Rosefolia (Alternanthera reineckii) My lights would be two 9 watt daylight florescent bulbs. Should I get a bigger ones? That's 18 watts for the whole tank... The filter is a Tetra Whisper 5-15. What do you think? Should I change anything? If you don't agree with one of the plants could you suggest a similar plant? I want to try to stick as close to this layout as I possibly can... Thank you for your input. ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 6:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Low light plants. So, you go to your LFS and you see all these beautiful live  plants. Some of them are red. So you buy some. And in two weeks you have your own home made swamp. They melted. More accurately they died and decomposed because they didn't have enough light. The average covers and lights that come with your tank set-up are considered low light or low tech they are approx. 1 to 2 watts per gallon. High tech or high light are considered 3,4 or 5 watts per gallon along with CO2 and ferts. Here is  a list of low light plants. More than enough for a beautiful tank. One of them is actually red and their is a carpet plant also. You could print this out and take it with you, the next time you buy plants. Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' Rotala Indica - Rotala indica Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' Downoi - Pogostemon helferi *Do not need high light to attain pink color. Dosing Iron can bring out this color. I have learned this from experience. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54824	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

How many gallons is your tank?. Then we will research from there. Harry ________________________________ From: Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Low light plants.   So, in response to this, what do you think of my choice in plants? And with the Telanthera being a red plant, should I get iron as well? I haven't started this project yet but I am planning on doing it soon. :) First of all, I'll be using 15 pounds of CaribSea's FloraMax planted aquarium substrate. I will also add someAPI CO2 Plant Booster and API Leaf Zone. The plants will be: Dwarf Hairgrass (For a carpet; Eleocharis acicularis) Four Leaf Clover (Marsilea quadrifolia) Bacopa Carolina and Telanthera Rosefolia (Alternanthera reineckii) My lights would be two 9 watt daylight florescent bulbs. Should I get a bigger ones? That's 18 watts for the whole tank... The filter is a Tetra Whisper 5-15. What do you think? Should I change anything? If you don't agree with one of the plants could you suggest a similar plant? I want to try to stick as close to this layout as I possibly can... Thank you for your input. ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 6:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Low light plants. So, you go to your LFS and you see all these beautiful live  plants. Some of them are red. So you buy some. And in two weeks you have your own home made swamp. They melted. More accurately they died and decomposed because they didn't have enough light. The average covers and lights that come with your tank set-up are considered low light or low tech they are approx. 1 to 2 watts per gallon. High tech or high light are considered 3,4 or 5 watts per gallon along with CO2 and ferts. Here is  a list of low light plants. More than enough for a beautiful tank. One of them is actually red and their is a carpet plant also. You could print this out and take it with you, the next time you buy plants. Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' Rotala Indica - Rotala indica Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' Downoi - Pogostemon helferi *Do not need high light to attain pink color. Dosing Iron can bring out this color. I have learned this from experience. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54825	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

Dwarf Hair Grass requires high light and CO2 injection to thrive. I think your going to find most of the carpet grasses require high light. Harry ________________________________ From: Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Low light plants.   So, in response to this, what do you think of my choice in plants? And with the Telanthera being a red plant, should I get iron as well? I haven't started this project yet but I am planning on doing it soon. :) First of all, I'll be using 15 pounds of CaribSea's FloraMax planted aquarium substrate. I will also add someAPI CO2 Plant Booster and API Leaf Zone. The plants will be: Dwarf Hairgrass (For a carpet; Eleocharis acicularis) Four Leaf Clover (Marsilea quadrifolia) Bacopa Carolina and Telanthera Rosefolia (Alternanthera reineckii) My lights would be two 9 watt daylight florescent bulbs. Should I get a bigger ones? That's 18 watts for the whole tank... The filter is a Tetra Whisper 5-15. What do you think? Should I change anything? If you don't agree with one of the plants could you suggest a similar plant? I want to try to stick as close to this layout as I possibly can... Thank you for your input. ________________________________ From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 6:06 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Low light plants. So, you go to your LFS and you see all these beautiful live  plants. Some of them are red. So you buy some. And in two weeks you have your own home made swamp. They melted. More accurately they died and decomposed because they didn't have enough light. The average covers and lights that come with your tank set-up are considered low light or low tech they are approx. 1 to 2 watts per gallon. High tech or high light are considered 3,4 or 5 watts per gallon along with CO2 and ferts. Here is  a list of low light plants. More than enough for a beautiful tank. One of them is actually red and their is a carpet plant also. You could print this out and take it with you, the next time you buy plants. Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' Rotala Indica - Rotala indica Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' Downoi - Pogostemon helferi *Do not need high light to attain pink color. Dosing Iron can bring out this color. I have learned this from experience. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54826	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Dawn/Ray My PWC is 30% every alternate day. Today i tested, i could not change water yesterday, so will be doing little while later. i just tested aquarium water for Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite. It all came up Zero :) I use API master test kit, the liquid one. Regards Siva ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2013 12:00 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, I can only echo Ray's questions right now, wondering about your water change schedule, type of test kits used, and how long this tank has been set up? I have to assume at this point that this tank has been running for quite some time considering the growth of the fish you mentioned. A reading of 0 for nitrate is concerning and that should be the first problem addressed. In regards to using carbon in your filter... this will not harm your fish. Carbon serves 2 purposes in your filter. 1 it helps to remove toxins from the water (things such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate as well as things like medications, odors, colors, etc.) and 2 it offers extra surface area for bacteria to colonize, and those bacteria will also help to rid the water of ammonia and nitrite. This is important for a healthy tank. My first suggestion to you would be to go ahead and add carbon to the filter while we work on figuring out the unexpected readings from your test kits. If/when this tank goes through a cycle the carbon will help a bit to ease the fish through it. Once we know the answers to the questions we've just asked then we can move forward and advise you further. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@...> wrote: > > Hi Dawn > > Thank you Dawn for your queries. > > Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite all zero. it is 6ftx2ftx2ft, 180G/640L. > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoils, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin, red tail sharkk  etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above.  > > > I have not added carbon to filters. Little hesitant to add anything to water, i have just lost a 16 inch BGK and that was too dear to us, and i have one more around 14 inch, too hard to digest anything to them and the other fishes as they were all brought up from 1 in size or so. I have synodontis which is again a scaleless fish. > > Regular gravel vacs is to remove the debris, i not just remove the surface ones, also churn the sand using the vac tube and drain finer debris as well. > > Regards > Siva > > > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2013 11:25 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > >   > I have a couple of other questions... can you post nitrate (NO3) results please? Do you have access to carbon to put into your filters? Do you perform regular gravel vacs with a vac tube instead of just churning up the gravel and removing the debris as it comes up from the water? > Can you also tell us how big the tank is and what animals are in it? Are there live plants in it? > > Sorry for all the questions but the more info you can provide the easier it is to sort out where the odor may be coming from and how to best fix it. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Sivakumar Viswanathan <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Dawn > > > > Thank you for your kind response.  > > > > EHEIM Pro 3e has - Mechpro 25% and substratpro 75%.(canister is 8L capacity) > > EHEIM 2260 has ceramic rings 50%  and Mechpro 50%.(canister is 18L) > > > > Water is changed around 20%-25% every alternate day, i need to clear the droppings etc, big cagey about messing up water quality, such large volume will get difficult to rectify and it takes time to get spoiled too i guess. When i remove droppings i also sort of churn a piece of substrate to get buried smaller particles too. The filters are cleaned every 2-3 months. I do not clean both at the same time, give some 2 weeks or so inbetween.  > > > > In case it helps, the water parameters are: > > > > KH-20 > > GH-13 > > ph-8.4 > > tds-800 > > > > Input tapwater is 7.4 KH and GH is the same > > > > Kindly do let me know if any other information is required please. > > > > Thanks & Regards > > Siva > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013 1:15 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell > > > > > > > >   > > Can you tell us what filter medias you are using and what water change schedule you have for this tank? How often are you doing water changes? How much water at a time? How often are you changing or cleaning filter medias? > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Siva" <sub_mails@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > I have 4 tanks, and the biggest is 6x2x2(180G/640L) capacity. I am unable to correlate, but now and then i get sort of fish smell. > > > > > > It is non-planted tank, with sand substrate, community tank having reasonably large fishes, like tinfoil, BGK, synodontis, archer, blue dolphin etc. Has some root-driftwood and some rocks and mud & plastic pipe for my BGK. Most of the tank inmates are 6in and above. Runs an EHEIM 2260 and EHEIM Professional 3e 2078. > > > > > > Strangely i do not get the same smell in other tanks, the other tanks have the normal water/mud smell. Any clues ? The remaining 3 tanks, one is barebottom and others are planted. > > > > > > Water parameters are normal, the tank has been around for 2 years or so, and reestablished 6 months back when i had to move into another apartment. > > > > > > Do let me know if you require any information. > > > > > > Thank you for your kind reply. > > > > > > Regards > > > Siva > > > Bangalore,India > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54827	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Ray I have just posted the water test results, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate all are zero. and i use API master test kit the liquid type. The moving happened 7 months back. Will that have an impact now ?  The fishes were transported in plastic covers, individually. The move was just about 500 mts. The whole process was handled by aquarium guys who deal with large aquarium builds, shifting etc. Incidentally it was the same guy who built mine and he came with his team. We did not do 1/2" part, we just bagged about 60lts of substrate. I lost the fish 7 months after the shift, and i have always kept water quality on top of my mind, unmindful of the time, even if i happen to return home pretty late, i do PWC :) I use a water changer to siphon out water and also poke the substrate to churn it and siphon out any burried junk as well. Regards Siva ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2013 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, After reading your posts about your moving and resetting this tank up after your move, I find a possible link to this move and your methods of carrying out the transfer and restoration of this tank as an aquarium again, to be a possible link to its odor. I noticed you tranferred the fish in tank water -- but not in the tank -- but most probably in buckets (or styrofoam fish boxes with bags); nothing wrong with this but I'm just trying to clarify what you did here. Now, getting to the substrate -- which you "carried forward" (relocated/moved?) without washing -- to carry forward the beneficial bacteria to the new place. This was not made clear exactly how you did this, but I suspect it was not done properly (although I don't know without your further input). Only if you carried the substrate as it was, in the tank, without disturbing it (and you may have?) -- and the surface of this substrate kept wet -- would the beneficial bacteria have survived. As the aerobic nitrifying bacteria is found only in the first 1/2" or so of the top surface of the substrate, ideally the substrate would have to be kept intact/undisturbed; not easy (nor recommended) to do if this were a large tank having a lot of weight. If however, you removed this substrate to buckets to transport it, to preserve this beneficial bacteria you would have needed to first remove only the first 1/2" of the substrate and place it in its own container. Then, after replacing the remaining portion of the substrate you brought with you back into the tank after the move, you would cover this with the 1/2" layer of nitrifying bacteria-laden substrate you transported separately. If you did not do this, and if this is the way you moved all your substrate, the buried beneficial bacteria no longer survives if it was all mixed in with the rest of the substrate. Also, if you moved your substrate by just scooping it into buckets without segregating the upper 1/2" w/bacteria, you obviously would have also buried any excess food and fish waste found in the first 3/4" of the subtrate's top layer. This will start rotting (putrifying) fast, by the action of anaerobic bacteria, producing all sorts of odors. This can become toxic and may be why you lost that one large fish. If you didn't take precautions to separate the 1/2" layer of beneficial bacteria before your move, you should have washed it all thoroughly, since burying it was going to kill the bacteria anyway. Depending on how you handled your substrate, you may well need to do a complete cleaning of it, which does not necessarily mean tearing the tank down if you have an Aqueon (Python) hose/water changer with a gravel cleaner attachment for deep cleaning it in portions. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54828	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

approve</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54829	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

Hi Amber (love_animals07), Most red plants require high light, and I doubt the Telanthera is an exception. I'm afraid that dispite your great substrate and the nutrient additives, that this plant will still not do well, not being able to fully utilize these foods. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54830	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, First, my apologies for the single word (approve) message in my previous post. To explain, there are two ways us moderators can approve a message for posting; either from the Yahoogroups Home Page or directly to Yahoogroups as a reply (message, "approve") to Yahoogroup's moderator emails which are sent to us as alerts that moderated members are submitting messages. With your message already having been approved, I replied to this already posted message instead of to the Yahoogroup's moderator message intended for this post. Getting back to your post, as all three of these organic waste parameters (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are at zero, the only other way they can all (including nitrate) be at these low levels, when not having plants to use them, is for you to be changing out much more water during the week, either as larger amounts or in quite frequent intervals; much more water than even the nitrate can be built up to in that amount of time to reach any level. While a 30% PWC is not too much -- if it's done too frequently, like every other day with a tank only moderately stocked, the nitrate too can be totally depleted over time. I realize that you feel it necessary to change this amount more often to eliminate the odors, but this method will serve to starve out the nitrifying bacteria, greatly reducing your cycle's ability to convert the wastes under a normal regimen of water changing. Not only shouldn't you need to make PWC's this often, but you shouldn't be doing this -- for the sake of your beneficial bacteria. With your most recent explanation of the processes involved in moving this aquarium, I'm now even more convinced that it's your substrate that's giving you all these problems -- with odors, and quite possible even with the loss of that one fish, even though it was 7 months after the move. While this aquarium guy and his tank moving team you hired may have some knowledge of aquariums, for them not to take steps in ensuring the survival of the nitrifying bacteria when they buried it all with the balance of the substrate shows they just didn't know enough. Too, for them to just bag 60 ltrs of unwashed substrate to be set up again in the same state it was in before being bagged up, even though you may have directed them to, also shows they didn't have even knowledge to advise you against this. If you didn't direct them to move the substrate in this unwashed state, they should have known better not to. When top layers of substrate (having the potential of holding fish wastes and uneaten foods that will normally settle down into it) are mixed in such a way as them (these top layers) being distributed throughout the substrate -- and even at the bottom -- this is a recipe for anaerobic bacteria to establish themselves in feeding on these wastes. While you haven't stated how long you had your tank set up prior to the move, I would just like to point out that while you may have been cleaning off the surface of this substrate regularly as part of your aquarium maintenance, even possibly deep cleaning it occasionally, you may not have taken any specific care in this (other than what's normal) since you never had any obvious problem before the move. Under such normal maintenance procedures, and over a period of time, wastes and uneaten food can settle down into the substrate to a good depth. Anaerobic (not needing oxygen) bacteria feeding on organic wastes produce pockets of noxious hydrogen and methane gases, both toxic (and often lethal) to fishes. During the resumption of normal aquarium maintenance after the move, you may not have necessarily cleaned the substrate deep enough to remove these pockets of noxious gases, or to even reach these areas where the top layer is now near the bottom and putrifying -- even though I understand you poke the substrate to churn it. I submit, this is my take on this situation. I'm eager to see if Dawn can shed further light on this, but I suggest this is where your problem may well be. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54831	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: slaughter.

Hi all. My little 10 gallon tank beside the bed has gone over a cliff. I have some tetras in there, and I also use it as a quarantine tank. I have had 2 platys in there for 3 weeks, with a week to go until they would have gone to the 40; but now all is lost. All the inhabitants looked great, I keep a good watch on them when I read in bed. All of a sudden yesterday, one tetra was dead, and the rest have white spots, and large white patches flaking off them. 3 more tetras were dead when I got up this morning, and the platys are at the bottom. whatever this is, it's nasty, and fast moving, so I don't believe going into town to get a medication would do any good. So my question... It looks like I'll be starting over with that tank. How should I sanitize everything? Is there a way to do it and preserve the cycle? or is all lost? If I have to re-cycle it that's ok... sh.t happens. So I need to cleanse the gravel, glass, fake plants and cave, and the heater, by boiling or bleach I would guess. What about the A.C 20/mini filter? replace the media if re-cycling... what about cleaning it out? I sure am glad now that I quarantine. Maybe in the future I will medicate that tank when I put newbies in there, just to be safer. I have all my tank cleaning stuff soaking in bleach and water now, as it's the 40's day to be done. Thanks all. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54832	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

It's just a 10 gallon. The one that I was using for inspiration was a 29 gallon or something like that. ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Low light plants. Hi Amber (love_animals07), Most red plants require high light, and I doubt the Telanthera is an exception.  I'm afraid that dispite your great substrate and the nutrient additives, that this plant will still not do well, not being able to fully utilize these foods. Ray</HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54833	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

or could I just keep it running for 2-3 weeks with no fish, and whatever it is will die off with nothing to feed on? would I need to add something every few days to give the cycle stuff, stuff to eat and stay cycled? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > > My little 10 gallon tank beside the bed has gone over a cliff. > I have some tetras in there, and I also use it as a quarantine tank. > I have had 2 platys in there for 3 weeks, with a week to go until they would have gone to the 40; but now all is lost. All the inhabitants looked great, I keep a good watch on them when I read in bed. All of a sudden yesterday, one tetra was dead, and the rest have white spots, and large white patches flaking off them. 3 more tetras were dead when I got up this morning, and the platys are at the bottom. whatever this is, it's nasty, and fast moving, so I don't believe going into town to get a medication would do any good. > So my question... > It looks like I'll be starting over with that tank. > How should I sanitize everything? Is there a way to do it and preserve the cycle? or is all lost? If I have to re-cycle it that's ok... sh.t happens. So I need to cleanse the gravel, glass, fake plants and cave, and the heater, by boiling or bleach I would guess. What about the A.C 20/mini filter? replace the media if re-cycling... what about cleaning it out? > I sure am glad now that I quarantine. Maybe in the future I will medicate that tank when I put newbies in there, just to be safer. > > I have all my tank cleaning stuff soaking in bleach and water now, as it's the 40's day to be done. > > Thanks all. > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54834	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Al, Sorry to hear about your misfortunate experience with your quarantine tank, but it's good you keep new fish separate this way to keep a watch on them. I wouldn't put stock in keeping it running without fish, hoping anything needing a host will die out, as there are some diseases which have dormant stages or have latent forms waiting for the chance to strike again. Most methods of killing off pathogens also kill off nitrifying bacteria, so you'll have to resign yourself to the fact of having to cycle the tank from scratch again after you disinfect it. Bleach seems to be about the most popular way of disinfecting aquarium equipment. I keep one half of my hatchery double tub filled at all times with having a bleach solution in it just for this purpose. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54835	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Yes, I would do 40 or 50% daily changes using temperature matched, conditioned water. John*<o)))< * On 7 June 2013 11:06, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank, John. Until I do finally get the fish new homes, should I just > partial change the water everyday? I have a feeling it will take some time > to get the fish new homes. > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > A few ideas you could try for getting rid of your fish, firstly you could > > post them on a local web site such as Gumtree, Freecycle or > Craigslist-pond > > fish free to good home. Otherwise, as Ray said you could take them to a > > local pet store but beware if the store is unscrupulous they may not just > > get sold as Feeder Fish [food for other species] or worse still they may > > end up being dumped in a trash bin once you leave the shop, I've heard of > > such things. Probably the best way to go along that route is a small > > aquatic only store rather than a general pet supplier because they will > > likely have more interest in the welfare of these animals. Perhaps you or > > one of your family & friends know of someone with a pond who could take > > them? Failing that I wonder if one of your local stores has a notice > board > > for small ads where you could advertise them as Pond Fish? > > > > Let us know what happens! > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 6 June 2013 20:47, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Kn, > > > > > > Seeing as you can't properly provide for these goldfish's needs, you've > > > reached the right decision in rehoming them. While they're not worth > very > > > much > > > monitarily, they could be priceless pets to somone who has the right > > > facilities. I doubt it would be worth it to anyone on eBay (or > AquaBid) to > > > have > > > them shipped to them, so offerring them on line may not be the best > idea > > > -- > > > unless they can pick them up. Pet shops should usually take them, most > > > often > > > in exchange for other fish or merchandise, but again you can't expect > very > > > much for regular goldfish. Just be sure that they don't intend on > > > reselling > > > them as "feeder fish." > > > > > > If you can keep a 20 gallon tank set up, we'll be looking forward to > you > > > and the family as new fish hobbyists. Even if you can keep the 5 gallon > > > tank > > > going, you could put 5 Celestial Pearl Danio's in that tank (note, not > > > just > > > plain Pearl Danio's; a different and larger species). They're also > still > > > called Galaxy Rasboras sometimes even though the name was changed. > They're > > > related to Goldfish, but only reach about 1" in length -- and they're > > > extremely colorful. > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54836	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, I have been following this thread with interest but as you have both Dawn & Ray on the case there is no need for me to comment but something I woudl ask you regarding your zero nitrate readings. Can you tell us exactly how you do the NO3 nitrate test please? I'm wondering if your reading of zero is due to an error interpreting the instruction? Please accept my apologies if this is not the case but just trying to clarify things. John*<o)))<* On 7 June 2013 15:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Siva, > > First, my apologies for the single word (approve) message in my previous > post. To explain, there are two ways us moderators can approve a message > for > posting; either from the Yahoogroups Home Page or directly to Yahoogroups > as > a reply (message, "approve") to Yahoogroup's moderator emails which are > sent to us as alerts that moderated members are submitting messages. With > your > message already having been approved, I replied to this already posted > message instead of to the Yahoogroup's moderator message intended for this > post. > > > Getting back to your post, as all three of these organic waste parameters > (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are at zero, the only other way they can > all > (including nitrate) be at these low levels, when not having plants to use > them, is for you to be changing out much more water during the week, > either as > larger amounts or in quite frequent intervals; much more water than even > the > nitrate can be built up to in that amount of time to reach any level. > > While a 30% PWC is not too much -- if it's done too frequently, like every > other day with a tank only moderately stocked, the nitrate too can be > totally depleted over time. I realize that you feel it necessary to change > this > amount more often to eliminate the odors, but this method will serve to > starve out the nitrifying bacteria, greatly reducing your cycle's ability > to > convert the wastes under a normal regimen of water changing. Not only > shouldn't > you need to make PWC's this often, but you shouldn't be doing this -- for > the sake of your beneficial bacteria. > > With your most recent explanation of the processes involved in moving this > aquarium, I'm now even more convinced that it's your substrate that's > giving > you all these problems -- with odors, and quite possible even with the > loss > of that one fish, even though it was 7 months after the move. While this > aquarium guy and his tank moving team you hired may have some knowledge of > aquariums, for them not to take steps in ensuring the survival of the > nitrifying bacteria when they buried it all with the balance of the > substrate shows > they just didn't know enough. Too, for them to just bag 60 ltrs of > unwashed > substrate to be set up again in the same state it was in before being > bagged up, even though you may have directed them to, also shows they > didn't have > even knowledge to advise you against this. If you didn't direct them to > move the substrate in this unwashed state, they should have known better > not > to. > > When top layers of substrate (having the potential of holding fish wastes > and uneaten foods that will normally settle down into it) are mixed in > such a > way as them (these top layers) being distributed throughout the substrate > -- and even at the bottom -- this is a recipe for anaerobic bacteria to > establish themselves in feeding on these wastes. While you haven't stated > how > long you had your tank set up prior to the move, I would just like to > point > out that while you may have been cleaning off the surface of this > substrate > regularly as part of your aquarium maintenance, even possibly deep > cleaning it > occasionally, you may not have taken any specific care in this (other than > what's normal) since you never had any obvious problem before the move. > Under such normal maintenance procedures, and over a period of time, > wastes and > uneaten food can settle down into the substrate to a good depth. > > Anaerobic (not needing oxygen) bacteria feeding on organic wastes produce > pockets of noxious hydrogen and methane gases, both toxic (and often > lethal) > to fishes. During the resumption of normal aquarium maintenance after the > move, you may not have necessarily cleaned the substrate deep enough to > remove these pockets of noxious gases, or to even reach these areas where > the top > layer is now near the bottom and putrifying -- even though I understand > you > poke the substrate to churn it. I submit, this is my take on this > situation. I'm eager to see if Dawn can shed further light on this, but I > suggest > this is where your problem may well be. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54837	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Hi Al, So sorry to hear that, did you loose all of them in the end? I would suggest starting over because as Ray pointed out there could be something dormant in there even with no inhabitants. You could try sterilizing everything with a PP solution, that should take care of it. John*<o)))<* On 8 June 2013 00:29, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Al, > > Sorry to hear about your misfortunate experience with your quarantine > tank, > but it's good you keep new fish separate this way to keep a watch on them. > I wouldn't put stock in keeping it running without fish, hoping anything > needing a host will die out, as there are some diseases which have dormant > stages or have latent forms waiting for the chance to strike again. Most > methods of killing off pathogens also kill off nitrifying bacteria, so > you'll > have to resign yourself to the fact of having to cycle the tank from > scratch > again after you disinfect it. Bleach seems to be about the most popular > way > of disinfecting aquarium equipment. I keep one half of my hatchery double > tub filled at all times with having a bleach solution in it just for this > purpose. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54838	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Thanks guys. What did ya mean by PP solution John? Did you mean peroxide? and what ratio to water? If I do use a bleach solution what ratio of it to water do I use Ray? I can disassemble the A.C. h.o.b. and soak it in a bucket of solution over night.... but would it be ok to pour some into where the impeller goes? or would it harm the seal at the bottom of the shaft? I'll pitch the filter media and start the cycle over.. this does suck... but my dear wife, bless her heart just said, "why risk it, for the matter of a few bucks, just buy new gravel and plants.".....thanks hun.... oh and there's just a couple of tetras left John, and they don't look good, I'm just going to put them out of their misery. I've never seen or read about anything like this. I looked at all the fish every night when I got into bed with a magnifying glass even; and they went from all looking perfect, to patches of white so big that a couple of them had patches as big as their heads, in one day. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > So sorry to hear that, did you loose all of them in the end? I would > suggest starting over because as Ray pointed out there could be something > dormant in there even with no inhabitants. You could try sterilizing > everything with a PP solution, that should take care of it. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 8 June 2013 00:29, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Al, > > > > Sorry to hear about your misfortunate experience with your quarantine > > tank, > > but it's good you keep new fish separate this way to keep a watch on them. > > I wouldn't put stock in keeping it running without fish, hoping anything > > needing a host will die out, as there are some diseases which have dormant > > stages or have latent forms waiting for the chance to strike again. Most > > methods of killing off pathogens also kill off nitrifying bacteria, so > > you'll > > have to resign yourself to the fact of having to cycle the tank from > > scratch > > again after you disinfect it. Bleach seems to be about the most popular > > way > > of disinfecting aquarium equipment. I keep one half of my hatchery double > > tub filled at all times with having a bleach solution in it just for this > > purpose. > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54839	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Al.......Re: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.

A 2 to 5 % bleach solution will work with out ruining equipment. Since your starting over I would consider not having live plants or gravel in a quarantine tank. Quarantine tanks are normally disinfected on a regular basis between inhabitants. Live plants and gravel will harbor pathogens fungus and all sorts of nasties. Also it makes disinfecting more difficult. Plastic plants and PVC pipes can provide hiding places. Here are some more ideas on setting up a quarantine tank.... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=834 Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 10:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.   Thanks guys. What did ya mean by PP solution John? Did you mean peroxide? and what ratio to water? If I do use a bleach solution what ratio of it to water do I use Ray? I can disassemble the A.C. h.o.b. and soak it in a bucket of solution over night.... but would it be ok to pour some into where the impeller goes? or would it harm the seal at the bottom of the shaft? I'll pitch the filter media and start the cycle over.. this does suck... but my dear wife, bless her heart just said, "why risk it, for the matter of a few bucks, just buy new gravel and plants.".....thanks hun.... oh and there's just a couple of tetras left John, and they don't look good, I'm just going to put them out of their misery. I've never seen or read about anything like this. I looked at all the fish every night when I got into bed with a magnifying glass even; and they went from all looking perfect, to patches of white so big that a couple of them had patches as big as their heads, in one day. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > So sorry to hear that, did you loose all of them in the end? I would > suggest starting over because as Ray pointed out there could be something > dormant in there even with no inhabitants. You could try sterilizing > everything with a PP solution, that should take care of it. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 8 June 2013 00:29, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Al, > > > > Sorry to hear about your misfortunate experience with your quarantine > > tank, > > but it's good you keep new fish separate this way to keep a watch on them. > > I wouldn't put stock in keeping it running without fish, hoping anything > > needing a host will die out, as there are some diseases which have dormant > > stages or have latent forms waiting for the chance to strike again. Most > > methods of killing off pathogens also kill off nitrifying bacteria, so > > you'll > > have to resign yourself to the fact of having to cycle the tank from > > scratch > > again after you disinfect it. Bleach seems to be about the most popular > > way > > of disinfecting aquarium equipment. I keep one half of my hatchery double > > tub filled at all times with having a bleach solution in it just for this > > purpose. > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54840	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

I wonder how much water you changed & how often? This sounds like a water chemistry problem. Is there a microscope anywhere? No outside problems or parasites - >water chemistry - pH went south . . .? No need to disinfect anything, just change out all the water and keep on doing it weekly. Charles H >My little 10 gallon tank beside the bed has gone over a cliff. >I have some tetras in there, and I also use it as a quarantine tank. >I have had 2 platys in there for 3 weeks, with a week to go until >they would have gone to the 40; but now all is lost. All the >inhabitants looked great, I keep a good watch on them when I read in >bed. All of a sudden yesterday, one tetra was dead, and the rest >have white spots, and large white patches flaking off them. 3 more >tetras were dead when I got up this morning, and the platys are at >the bottom. whatever this is, it's nasty, and fast moving, so I >don't believe going into town to get a medication would do any good. >So my question... >It looks like I'll be starting over with that tank. >How should I sanitize everything? Is there a way to do it and >preserve the cycle? or is all lost? If I have to re-cycle it that's >ok... sh.t happens. So I need to cleanse the gravel, glass, fake >plants and cave, and the heater, by boiling or bleach I would guess. >What about the A.C 20/mini filter? replace the media if >re-cycling... what about cleaning it out? >I sure am glad now that I quarantine. Maybe in the future I will >medicate that tank when I put newbies in there, just to be safer. > >I have all my tank cleaning stuff soaking in bleach and water now, >as it's the 40's day to be done. > >Thanks all. > Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54841	From: harry perry	Date: 6/7/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Al, "My little 10 gallon tank beside the bed has gone over a cliff". 2 platys  one tetra was dead, and the rest >have white spots, and large white patches flaking off them. 3 more >tetras were dead when I got up this morning". How many fish were in this 10 gallon tank? and what size were they?. If your starting over....you might want to reconsider the number of fish. Harry ________________________________ From: Charles Harrison <charles@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 11:40 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] slaughter.   I wonder how much water you changed & how often? This sounds like a water chemistry problem. Is there a microscope anywhere? No outside problems or parasites - >water chemistry - pH went south . . .? No need to disinfect anything, just change out all the water and keep on doing it weekly. Charles H >My little 10 gallon tank beside the bed has gone over a cliff. >I have some tetras in there, and I also use it as a quarantine tank. >I have had 2 platys in there for 3 weeks, with a week to go until >they would have gone to the 40; but now all is lost. All the >inhabitants looked great, I keep a good watch on them when I read in >bed. All of a sudden yesterday, one tetra was dead, and the rest >have white spots, and large white patches flaking off them. 3 more >tetras were dead when I got up this morning, and the platys are at >the bottom. whatever this is, it's nasty, and fast moving, so I >don't believe going into town to get a medication would do any good. >So my question... >It looks like I'll be starting over with that tank. >How should I sanitize everything? Is there a way to do it and >preserve the cycle? or is all lost? If I have to re-cycle it that's >ok... sh.t happens. So I need to cleanse the gravel, glass, fake >plants and cave, and the heater, by boiling or bleach I would guess. >What about the A.C 20/mini filter? replace the media if >re-cycling... what about cleaning it out? >I sure am glad now that I quarantine. Maybe in the future I will >medicate that tank when I put newbies in there, just to be safer. > >I have all my tank cleaning stuff soaking in bleach and water now, >as it's the 40's day to be done. > >Thanks all. > Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54842	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Al, I see that Harry has already answered your question on the ratio of bleach solution to tank water to use -- as I believe your question to be. As you have a 10 gallon tank to be sterilized, the 5% ratio that Harry recommends would come out to be 1/2 gallon of bleach solution to the 10 gallons of water. Sounds to me though, that this is an awful lot. I use about 1 cup of bleach solution to 10 gallons and find it plenty strong enough, but perhaps Harry has a purpose for recommending the 1/2 gallon for your tank. To clarify that 5% of your 10 gallons would equal 1/2 gallon, it's easy to understand that 10% of 10 gallons is 1 gallon -- so we're talking about half of that. I've found that if I increase my usual one cup of bleach solution to 10 gallons to 1 pint (2 cups) of bleach solution to 10 gallons, that it can affect some rubber seals, although I don't know what rubber material your filter's impellor shaft seal uses (not all rubber is made the same). Harry did also say that as low as a 2% ratio of bleach solution to tank capacity (water) could be used, which would come out to be 3/4 of a quart of bleach solution per 10 gallons; still seeming to be a large amount. Not to confuse things, I start to wonder if perhaps you or Harry (or both of you) are referring to the actual bleach solution as bottled -- the ratio of the Sodium Hypochlorite to water as bottled -- although I didn't see your question that way and I didn't see you asking that (please clarify if you did). Bottled chlorine bleach is normally offered in solution of between 4% and 6% Sodium Hypochlorite to water solution (ratio), with the most commonly sold being 5.25%, but the newer "Ultra Bleaches" have a stonger solution so that you don't need to use as much. Charles makes a good point, in that those white patches could have been the result of adverse water quality, perhaps like a pH crash if I'm reading him right. Just as possible though, is that these white patches may have been a pathogen. This manifestation sounds to me to be very much like Columnaris (Flexibacteria, many now having been reclassified as Flavobacteria). These pathogens are extremely aggressive, fitting in with your description of these white patches progressing rapidly. Most species of Columnaris -- and they are numerous, also with many strains -- are quite virulent, even surviving freezing down to -196 o C with liquid nitrogen, in labs. Even though there's the chance that you had a water chemistry problem, I'd still recommend sterilizing this tank to be sure of eliminating any possible pathogens. A strong bleach solution should rid the tank of all species that I'm aware of, including Myxobacteria (not to be confused with the related Mycobacteria -- which needs alchohol or acetone to dissolve its protective wax coating first, not just chlorine bleach). Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54843	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi John, I read your apology early yesterday morning, about the remark you made that I said, that charcoal will start to become poisonous after a few weeks when it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into your tank. After I read your message, I passed over it, intending to get back to it after addressing those members having fish issues. When the time came a bit later, and I looked for your message again, I could no longer find it. I looked several times yesterday and looked again this morning thinking that I must have missed seeing it somewhere along in my search, but I find it no longer exists on my computer -- or at least not anywhere where I can see it if it is here. I checked my In (new) Mail box, my Old (read) Mail box and my Deleted Mail box numerous times but it's not in any of them, having mysteriously disappeared -- and I know I did not delete it. While I don't know of your message's full context, I would just like to say that there's no need for any apology. Up until recently, the concept of charcoal (or activated carbon) leaching impurities back in the aquarium water was universally accepted by anyone following the latest findings at the time -- with me included in that belief. I've even repeated this back here a number of times, as being the generally understood process at the time, that the release of impurities after an indeterminate amount of time was entirely possible. Some of the lastest findings though have changed this understanding, although it's still uncertain, as it's now a controversial subject. As I stated though, I still subscribe that these media may release their impurities and would treat them as if they do, erring on the side of caution -- either changing them at least once a month (if one insists on using them) or not employing them at all (replacing them with a different filter medium) -- even though I didn't state this impurity release would happen, in the post in question. So again, thanks for your apology but it's not needed, as I have said this in the past -- which is probably where you understood it from as most of us believed this then. One problem with activated charcoal or carbon though, is that it will reach a point where it will become saturated with impurities, but it's virtually impossible to know when that might occur. Even if it won't release impurities back into the water -- which seems to now be uncertain -- its term of usefulness can't be determined with any kind of accuracy. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54844	From: harry perry	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

To simplify. Just use 1 cup of bleach per 10 gallons. Just pour the cup of bleach into the full tank and let the filter run with out any carbon for 10 to 15 minutes. You did say your going to dispose of the gravel ????? do that first. Full strength bleach will compromise rubber seals. Also it will stain, stainless steel. At full strength it is highly corrosive. It is however perfectly safe to use when diluted because it breaks down into harmless by products quickly. That is why it is used in hospitals. Harry ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.   Al, I see that Harry has already answered your question on the ratio of bleach solution to tank water to use -- as I believe your question to be. As you have a 10 gallon tank to be sterilized, the 5% ratio that Harry recommends would come out to be 1/2 gallon of bleach solution to the 10 gallons of water. Sounds to me though, that this is an awful lot. I use about 1 cup of bleach solution to 10 gallons and find it plenty strong enough, but perhaps Harry has a purpose for recommending the 1/2 gallon for your tank. To clarify that 5% of your 10 gallons would equal 1/2 gallon, it's easy to understand that 10% of 10 gallons is 1 gallon -- so we're talking about half of that. I've found that if I increase my usual one cup of bleach solution to 10 gallons to 1 pint (2 cups) of bleach solution to 10 gallons, that it can affect some rubber seals, although I don't know what rubber material your filter's impellor shaft seal uses (not all rubber is made the same). Harry did also say that as low as a 2% ratio of bleach solution to tank capacity (water) could be used, which would come out to be 3/4 of a quart of bleach solution per 10 gallons; still seeming to be a large amount. Not to confuse things, I start to wonder if perhaps you or Harry (or both of you) are referring to the actual bleach solution as bottled -- the ratio of the Sodium Hypochlorite to water as bottled -- although I didn't see your question that way and I didn't see you asking that (please clarify if you did). Bottled chlorine bleach is normally offered in solution of between 4% and 6% Sodium Hypochlorite to water solution (ratio), with the most commonly sold being 5.25%, but the newer "Ultra Bleaches" have a stonger solution so that you don't need to use as much. Charles makes a good point, in that those white patches could have been the result of adverse water quality, perhaps like a pH crash if I'm reading him right. Just as possible though, is that these white patches may have been a pathogen. This manifestation sounds to me to be very much like Columnaris (Flexibacteria, many now having been reclassified as Flavobacteria). These pathogens are extremely aggressive, fitting in with your description of these white patches progressing rapidly. Most species of Columnaris -- and they are numerous, also with many strains -- are quite virulent, even surviving freezing down to -196 o C with liquid nitrogen, in labs. Even though there's the chance that you had a water chemistry problem, I'd still recommend sterilizing this tank to be sure of eliminating any possible pathogens. A strong bleach solution should rid the tank of all species that I'm aware of, including Myxobacteria (not to be confused with the related Mycobacteria -- which needs alchohol or acetone to dissolve its protective wax coating first, not just chlorine bleach). Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54845	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi John(and Ray) - Thank you so much for  your kind response. The instructions are followed every time as documented in the API master kit documentation. I refer to it every time i test. As Ray suggests, perhaps i have hit a rhythm that the PWCs are frequent and good volumes to prevent nitrate buildup. The PWC is inevitable as the large fishes leave quite a good amount of droppings, and i do not overfeed them  My BGKs signal first if the water is not good, they refuse to eat. So the frequency/volume/filter cleaning etc i have learnt from them :) , i have a range of Hikari food as each of my fellows have their preference :) I still have another clueless point, the tap water is 7.5ph and this tank has 8.4. That is inspite of these water changes etc. My LFS guy says it is the sand substrate that is causing ph to go up, i have to deal with this somehow. it holds rock-solid at 8.4, where as my planted tanks are 7.5. Regarding the substrate handling at the time of shifting Ray, there were a bundle of reasons, first it is sand, it never sets and moves even in water current and it is constantly churned. Perhaps may not matter much. Still when the bags were emptied into the tank and tank filled as dirty water, most got sucked into the filter. Time was a constraint(took the whole night) and we thought we should manage it the way we did and should not be a problem. Not sure whether we erred, but still 7 months i think Ray is quite a long period. Even earlier, prior to the shift(tank was running for 2 yrs), i used to get the smell, i used to increase the frequency of water change to get things back. Some of the posting on net had recommended that on any sign of problem, do a PWC and then start worrying about what could have gone wrong, saving life is important. I just followed the golden rule and it has worked for me.  Almost every time i change water, i poke the substrate, churn it and try to get the junk out, since it is sand this is not difficult. My LFS guy has advised me to ensure i churn so that i do not get into hydrogen-sulphide/methane etc. Poking is done even in planted tank.  Regards Siva ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2013 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, I have been following this thread with interest but as you have both Dawn & Ray on the case there is no need for me to comment but something I woudl ask you regarding your zero nitrate readings. Can you tell us exactly how you do the NO3 nitrate test please? I'm wondering if your reading of zero is due to an error interpreting the instruction? Please accept my apologies if this is not the case but just trying to clarify things. John*<o)))<* On 7 June 2013 15:49, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Siva, > > First, my apologies for the single word (approve) message in my previous > post. To explain, there are two ways us moderators can approve a message > for > posting; either from the Yahoogroups Home Page or directly to Yahoogroups > as > a reply (message, "approve") to Yahoogroup's moderator emails which are > sent to us as alerts that moderated members are submitting messages. With > your > message already having been approved, I replied to this already posted > message instead of to the Yahoogroup's moderator message intended for this > post. > > > Getting back to your post, as all three of these organic waste parameters > (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are at zero, the only other way they can > all > (including nitrate) be at these low levels, when not having plants to use > them, is for you to be changing out much more water during the week, > either as > larger amounts or in quite frequent intervals; much more water than even > the > nitrate can be built up to in that amount of time to reach any level. > > While a 30% PWC is not too much -- if it's done too frequently, like every > other day with a tank only moderately stocked, the nitrate too can be > totally depleted over time. I realize that you feel it necessary to change > this > amount more often to eliminate the odors, but this method will serve to > starve out the nitrifying bacteria, greatly reducing your cycle's ability > to > convert the wastes under a normal regimen of water changing. Not only > shouldn't > you need to make PWC's this often, but you shouldn't be doing this -- for > the sake of your beneficial bacteria. > > With your most recent explanation of the processes involved in moving this > aquarium, I'm now even more convinced that it's your substrate that's > giving > you all these problems -- with odors, and quite possible even with the > loss > of that one fish, even though it was 7 months after the move. While this > aquarium guy and his tank moving team you hired may have some knowledge of > aquariums, for them not to take steps in ensuring the survival of the > nitrifying bacteria when they buried it all with the balance of the > substrate shows > they just didn't know enough. Too, for them to just bag 60 ltrs of > unwashed > substrate to be set up again in the same state it was in before being > bagged up, even though you may have directed them to, also shows they > didn't have > even knowledge to advise you against this. If you didn't direct them to > move the substrate in this unwashed state, they should have known better > not > to. > > When top layers of substrate (having the potential of holding fish wastes > and uneaten foods that will normally settle down into it) are mixed in > such a > way as them (these top layers) being distributed throughout the substrate > -- and even at the bottom -- this is a recipe for anaerobic bacteria to > establish themselves in feeding on these wastes. While you haven't stated > how > long you had your tank set up prior to the move, I would just like to > point > out that while you may have been cleaning off the surface of this > substrate > regularly as part of your aquarium maintenance, even possibly deep > cleaning it > occasionally, you may not have taken any specific care in this (other than > what's normal) since you never had any obvious problem before the move. > Under such normal maintenance procedures, and over a period of time, > wastes and > uneaten food can settle down into the substrate to a good depth. > > Anaerobic (not needing oxygen) bacteria feeding on organic wastes produce > pockets of noxious hydrogen and methane gases, both toxic (and often > lethal) > to fishes. During the resumption of normal aquarium maintenance after the > move, you may not have necessarily cleaned the substrate deep enough to > remove these pockets of noxious gases, or to even reach these areas where > the top > layer is now near the bottom and putrifying -- even though I understand > you > poke the substrate to churn it. I submit, this is my take on this > situation. I'm eager to see if Dawn can shed further light on this, but I > suggest > this is where your problem may well be. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54846	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, Well, at least you're telling us more than we knew before, each time we ask or suggest something. You never said you substrate was sand. This is not bad if you don't have plants, but as it's obviously the substrate that's boosting your pH to 8.4 -- which I realized from the start (but as it wasn't an issue, I didn't pursue it) -- I have my doubts that you bought this sand in a fish or pet shop. Aquarium sand, sold by pet shops and fish stores are usually inert (unless sold for marine or Rift Lake aquaria) -- it doesn't increase the pH (or at least it shouldn't when sold by a reliable shop). You're telling us a lot just by describing the process of emptying the bags of sand into the tank after the move. As this caused a tank filled as dirty water (most of which got filtered out), do you really think this was the major portion of the dirt? The dirty water undoubtedly was caused by the dirty sand, but most probably only the upper-most portion of the sand that got emptied out of the bags. No telling how much dirt remains throughout the rest of the sand. If this is play sand, which may include limestone granuals (causing the high pH), this type of sand is not washed before sale and often contains ground up leaf litter. This would be enough organic matter to encourage the growth of anaerobic bacteria. No, 7 months is not too long a time for an unsuspected build up of hydrogen and methane to get established, causing the death of your fish. Yes, making a partial water change is one of the first things to consider on any sign of a problem -- but not necessarily carrying it out. If you do make a PWC, as a necessity towards controlling a problem, water parameter test results should not only be taken first (partly to see how necessary the PWC is, and then, to see where the water problem is), but all results should be recorded (in numbers). In this way, if you can't get a handle on the problem, the numbers can help others who may advise you. As your tank was running for two years prior to the move, it had plenty of time to have organic wastes created in it. While I won't say that this dirt penetrated very deeply in sand, it still had the opportunity to get down below the surface somewhat, after this amount of time. Still, it's starting to look like while some organic matter may be at fault, it just may be the sand itself originally containing leaf matter and other ground up organic impurities. I'm sure you must agree, that with the nitrifying bacteria growing only on the surface of the sand, that it was buried when the sand was bagged up. If you're not aware, please know that nitrobacters grow only where they're exposed to the most highly oxygenated water -- firstly in the filter and secondly on all inside surfaces of the tank in contact with the water -- including the top (only) of the substrate. For gravel substrate where oxygenated water reaches a shallow depth, these bacteria may grow down into it between the granuals to approximately 1/2" or so (depending upon the size of the granuals and the amount of water current flowing over the substrate). If you've been finding the need to continually make frequent PWC averaging the 30% (even during the 2 years before your move), mainly just because of the waste you need to clean up from the fish, your cycle can't be very far advanced then or now if its bacteria never had the normal amount of nutrients (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) to feed on and multiply. Not knocking this, but just to advise you that you simply can't have a large cycle (enough nitrifying bacteria to convert the wastes of your fish if you refrained from doing a PWC for a week) when keeping these dissolved organic wastes continually at or near zero, which you may already be aware of -- but there couldn't have been a large amount of these bacteria on the sand before your move to be concerned with. If you're in doubt about what I'm suggesting to you as your problem, try taking a scoop of sand from deep in the substrate with your hand and bringing it up into the water column, releasing it as spreading it throughout the water. Then see how much debris it fills the water with -- and do this AFTER cleaning the substrate in your normal tank maintenance procedure. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54847	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/8/2013
Subject: Re: Low light plants.

Yeah, ten gallon tanks don't normally come with high intensity lighting. Hard to grow red leafed plants in normal low light. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54848	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi Ray, I can't find it either-how strange! Anyhow, all I was trying to convey to OP as hr was unfamiliar with anything to do with fish keeping was not to use carbon rather than trying to explain the whys & wherefores of that suggestion. That way it was one less thing that could have possibly gone wrong. John*<o)))<* On 8 June 2013 13:58, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > I read your apology early yesterday morning, about the remark you made > that > I said, that charcoal will start to become poisonous after a few weeks > when > it begins leaching the toxins it soaked up back into your tank. After I > read your message, I passed over it, intending to get back to it after > addressing those members having fish issues. > > When the time came a bit later, and I looked for your message again, I > could no longer find it. I looked several times yesterday and looked again > this > morning thinking that I must have missed seeing it somewhere along in my > search, but I find it no longer exists on my computer -- or at least not > anywhere where I can see it if it is here. I checked my In (new) Mail box, > my > Old (read) Mail box and my Deleted Mail box numerous times but it's not in > any > of them, having mysteriously disappeared -- and I know I did not delete it. > > While I don't know of your message's full context, I would just like to > say > that there's no need for any apology. Up until recently, the concept of > charcoal (or activated carbon) leaching impurities back in the aquarium > water > was universally accepted by anyone following the latest findings at the > time -- with me included in that belief. I've even repeated this back here > a > number of times, as being the generally understood process at the time, > that > the release of impurities after an indeterminate amount of time was > entirely > possible. Some of the lastest findings though have changed this > understanding, although it's still uncertain, as it's now a controversial > subject. As > I stated though, I still subscribe that these media may release their > impurities and would treat them as if they do, erring on the side of > caution -- > either changing them at least once a month (if one insists on using them) > or > not employing them at all (replacing them with a different filter medium) > -- > even though I didn't state this impurity release would happen, in the post > in question. > > So again, thanks for your apology but it's not needed, as I have said this > in the past -- which is probably where you understood it from as most of > us > believed this then. One problem with activated charcoal or carbon though, > is that it will reach a point where it will become saturated with > impurities, > but it's virtually impossible to know when that might occur. Even if it > won't release impurities back into the water -- which seems to now be > uncertain -- its term of usefulness can't be determined with any kind of > accuracy. > > Ray </HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54849	From: Amber	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house

We haven't moved the 48 gallon bowfront yet, mostly because we're trying to find a home for the clown fish and live rock in the tank. My boyfriend has decided he would rather have a freshwater tank like mine are rather than a saltwater. So now we just need to find him a new home. The hardest tank to move was (of course) the 125 gallon. I set it up in the living room next to the tv so we can sit and watch the fish. I'm waiting on the gravel to get here (Tuesday) so that I can finish setting it up and buy more plants for the tank. I decided to purchase good gravel this time around and I ordered ActivFlora from my LFS. I'm hoping my plants do better, and this time if I have to move the tank again (I really hope not) I can save the gravel instead of having to throw away my mixed gravel/dirt Walstad setup. I set my smaller tanks up as Walstad tanks and they're doing very well so far. Has anyone out there used ActivFlora before? I'm excited to have a "proper" plant substrate, but more excited to have a really dark almost all black substrate, I think the fish and plants will all look brighter and more colorful. I was hoping to not have to remove my fish from the tank (again) when I put the gravel in, but I don't know how cloudy this gravel will be, the website says it's pre-washed and will have a slight initial cloudiness. Right now I have the fish in the 125 gallon tank with just ornaments (bare bottom tank). Amber Berglund

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54850	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house

Hi Amber, I�m using something similar I think. Its called Fluorite from the folks at Sea Chem. This is my first planted aquarium, after being in the hobby over thirty years. Next with some coaching from Dawn and a few others on group, I juiced up the lighting and have been doing pretty well. One thing I did find out the hard way; if you have good plants to start with, its generally a big help. My only issue now is that my Amazon Sword, although growing well has leaves that are on the softer side since it was trimmed back. They are not hard or shiny as the first leaves were even though the plant is growing well and quickly. I�m trying to read more to find out the why�s of this. bill in pa On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > We haven't moved the 48 gallon bowfront yet, mostly because we're trying > to find a home for the clown fish and live rock in the tank. My > boyfriend has decided he would rather have a freshwater tank like mine > are rather than a saltwater. So now we just need to find him a new home. > The hardest tank to move was (of course) the 125 gallon. I set it up in > the living room next to the tv so we can sit and watch the fish. I'm > waiting on the gravel to get here (Tuesday) so that I can finish setting > it up and buy more plants for the tank. I decided to purchase good > gravel this time around and I ordered ActivFlora from my LFS. I'm hoping > my plants do better, and this time if I have to move the tank again (I > really hope not) I can save the gravel instead of having to throw away > my mixed gravel/dirt Walstad setup. I set my smaller tanks up as Walstad > tanks and they're doing very well so far. > Has anyone out there used ActivFlora before? I'm excited to have a > "proper" plant substrate, but more excited to have a really dark almost > all black substrate, I think the fish and plants will all look brighter > and more colorful. > I was hoping to not have to remove my fish from the tank (again) when I > put the gravel in, but I don't know how cloudy this gravel will be, the > website says it's pre-washed and will have a slight initial cloudiness. > Right now I have the fish in the 125 gallon tank with just ornaments > (bare bottom tank). > > Amber Berglund > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54851	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house

I use fluorite as well...same instructions but I ignore them and wash the heck out of it. Swords are sold with leaves grown out of the water, they are stiffer to stand up without the support of the water. When you plant them underwater they lose the leaves and regrow softer ones that will go with the flow of the water. -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of oldies1433 Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 3:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house Hi Amber, I’m using something similar I think. Its called Fluorite from the folks at Sea Chem. This is my first planted aquarium, after being in the hobby over thirty years. Next with some coaching from Dawn and a few others on group, I juiced up the lighting and have been doing pretty well. One thing I did find out the hard way; if you have good plants to start with, its generally a big help. My only issue now is that my Amazon Sword, although growing well has leaves that are on the softer side since it was trimmed back. They are not hard or shiny as the first leaves were even though the plant is growing well and quickly. I’m trying to read more to find out the why’s of this. bill in pa On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > We haven't moved the 48 gallon bowfront yet, mostly because we're trying > to find a home for the clown fish and live rock in the tank. My > boyfriend has decided he would rather have a freshwater tank like mine > are rather than a saltwater. So now we just need to find him a new home. > The hardest tank to move was (of course) the 125 gallon. I set it up in > the living room next to the tv so we can sit and watch the fish. I'm > waiting on the gravel to get here (Tuesday) so that I can finish setting > it up and buy more plants for the tank. I decided to purchase good > gravel this time around and I ordered ActivFlora from my LFS. I'm hoping > my plants do better, and this time if I have to move the tank again (I > really hope not) I can save the gravel instead of having to throw away > my mixed gravel/dirt Walstad setup. I set my smaller tanks up as Walstad > tanks and they're doing very well so far. > Has anyone out there used ActivFlora before? I'm excited to have a > "proper" plant substrate, but more excited to have a really dark almost > all black substrate, I think the fish and plants will all look brighter > and more colorful. > I was hoping to not have to remove my fish from the tank (again) when I > put the gravel in, but I don't know how cloudy this gravel will be, the > website says it's pre-washed and will have a slight initial cloudiness. > Right now I have the fish in the 125 gallon tank with just ornaments > (bare bottom tank). > > Amber Berglund > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54852	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.

Hi Al, PP is Potassium Permanganate, a very potent oxidiser for topical treatment but in dilution it can be an effective disinfectant for equipment. John*<o)))<* On 8 June 2013 03:24, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks guys. > What did ya mean by PP solution John? Did you mean peroxide? and what > ratio to water? > If I do use a bleach solution what ratio of it to water do I use Ray? > I can disassemble the A.C. h.o.b. and soak it in a bucket of solution over > night.... but would it be ok to pour some into where the impeller goes? or > would it harm the seal at the bottom of the shaft? > I'll pitch the filter media and start the cycle over.. this does suck... > but my dear wife, bless her heart just said, "why risk it, for the matter > of a few bucks, just buy new gravel and plants.".....thanks hun.... > > oh and there's just a couple of tetras left John, and they don't look > good, I'm just going to put them out of their misery. I've never seen or > read about anything like this. I looked at all the fish every night when I > got into bed with a magnifying glass even; and they went from all looking > perfect, to patches of white so big that a couple of them had patches as > big as their heads, in one day. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > So sorry to hear that, did you loose all of them in the end? I would > > suggest starting over because as Ray pointed out there could be something > > dormant in there even with no inhabitants. You could try sterilizing > > everything with a PP solution, that should take care of it. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 8 June 2013 00:29, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > > > > Sorry to hear about your misfortunate experience with your quarantine > > > tank, > > > but it's good you keep new fish separate this way to keep a watch on > them. > > > I wouldn't put stock in keeping it running without fish, hoping > anything > > > needing a host will die out, as there are some diseases which have > dormant > > > stages or have latent forms waiting for the chance to strike again. > Most > > > methods of killing off pathogens also kill off nitrifying bacteria, so > > > you'll > > > have to resign yourself to the fact of having to cycle the tank from > > > scratch > > > again after you disinfect it. Bleach seems to be about the most popular > > > way > > > of disinfecting aquarium equipment. I keep one half of my hatchery > double > > > tub filled at all times with having a bleach solution in it just for > this > > > purpose. > > > > > > Ray </HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54853	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new house

Hi Donna, So what are you saying, not to worry? Now you know Bill, I worry about everything! Good hearing from you, and double check on that washing, without it you would not see your fish until Christmas. bill in pa On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Donna Ransome <djransome@...>wrote: > ** > > > I use fluorite as well...same instructions but I ignore them and wash the > heck out of it. > > Swords are sold with leaves grown out of the water, they are stiffer to > stand up without the support of the water. When you plant them underwater > they lose the leaves and regrow softer ones that will go with the flow of > the water. > > -----Original Message----- > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of oldies1433 > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 3:32 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Almost all of my tanks are moved to the new > house > > Hi Amber, > > I�m using something similar I think. Its called Fluorite from > > the folks at Sea Chem. This is my first planted aquarium, after being > > in the hobby over thirty years. Next with some coaching from Dawn and > > a few others on group, I juiced up the lighting and have been doing pretty > well. > > One thing I did find out the hard way; if you have good plants to start > with, its > > generally a big help. My only issue now is that my Amazon Sword, although > > growing well has leaves that are on the softer side since it was trimmed > back. They are not hard or shiny as the first leaves were even though the > plant is growing well and quickly. I�m trying to read more to find out the > why�s of this. > > bill in pa > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > We haven't moved the 48 gallon bowfront yet, mostly because we're trying > > to find a home for the clown fish and live rock in the tank. My > > boyfriend has decided he would rather have a freshwater tank like mine > > are rather than a saltwater. So now we just need to find him a new home. > > The hardest tank to move was (of course) the 125 gallon. I set it up in > > the living room next to the tv so we can sit and watch the fish. I'm > > waiting on the gravel to get here (Tuesday) so that I can finish setting > > it up and buy more plants for the tank. I decided to purchase good > > gravel this time around and I ordered ActivFlora from my LFS. I'm hoping > > my plants do better, and this time if I have to move the tank again (I > > really hope not) I can save the gravel instead of having to throw away > > my mixed gravel/dirt Walstad setup. I set my smaller tanks up as Walstad > > tanks and they're doing very well so far. > > Has anyone out there used ActivFlora before? I'm excited to have a > > "proper" plant substrate, but more excited to have a really dark almost > > all black substrate, I think the fish and plants will all look brighter > > and more colorful. > > I was hoping to not have to remove my fish from the tank (again) when I > > put the gravel in, but I don't know how cloudy this gravel will be, the > > website says it's pre-washed and will have a slight initial cloudiness. > > Right now I have the fish in the 125 gallon tank with just ornaments > > (bare bottom tank). > > > > Amber Berglund > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54854	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Hi John, One further thing about activated charcoal and activated carbon: A study found that these filter media may cause lateral line erosion in many South American Cichlids. Notice, I said "may," as I don't believe the study's conclusive. It has long been suspected though, that the use of these filter media has a connection with lateral line disease in these fishes. One more reason to avoid its use, especially when having any of these species and preferring to play it safe. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54855	From: harry perry	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

As hobbyist most of us do not have unlimited budgets, so we have a tendency to "stretch" our supplies. Those little bags of charcoal/carbon do not last forever. The charcoal will absorb until it reaches capacity and then all those toxins go right back into your tank. You would probably be better off without the charcoal,considering studies on the subject. There are a lot of alternatives. Many are much cheaper then those little bags with a teaspoon of carbon in them. Harry ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...   Hi John, One further thing about activated charcoal and activated carbon: A study found that these filter media may cause lateral line erosion in many South American Cichlids. Notice, I said "may," as I don't believe the study's conclusive. It has long been suspected though, that the use of these filter media has a connection with lateral line disease in these fishes. One more reason to avoid its use, especially when having any of these species and preferring to play it safe. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54856	From: Michelle	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: Are my fish pregnant?

I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54857	From: Michelle	Date: 6/9/2013
Subject: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)

I have 3 salamanders and countless tadpoles (2 of which are spending time on my wooden log). I randomly took them home from a pool in willis tucker park because kids kept taking them out and hurting them. I boil lettuice and then after shredding it i freeze it into ice cubes to put in the tank once a week. What else do I need to know about tadpole/ salamander raising. Also, how do I know if my salamanders will become land dwellers or stay in the water?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54858	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Is the main purpose of the carbon granules for filtering chlorine and toxins, or is there some other reason for it? I was just thinking it would be real easy to replace the carbon every week if need be. They sell these large containers of it for cheap. If I shouldn't use carbon, what's the alternative, and do I have to change it every so often. Anyone ever keep crayfish? I saw some orange and blue ones that look very cool. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > As hobbyist most of us do not have unlimited budgets, so we have a tendency to "stretch" our supplies. Those little bags of charcoal/carbon do not last forever. The charcoal will absorb until it reaches capacity and then all those toxins go right back into your tank. You would probably be better off without the charcoal,considering studies on the subject. There are a lot of alternatives. > > Many are much cheaper then those little bags with a teaspoon of carbon in them. > > Harry > > > ________________________________ > From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > >   > Hi John, > > One further thing about activated charcoal and activated carbon: > > A study found that these filter media may cause lateral line erosion in > many South American Cichlids. Notice, I said "may," as I don't believe the > study's conclusive. It has long been suspected though, that the use of these > filter media has a connection with lateral line disease in these fishes. One > more reason to avoid its use, especially when having any of these species > and preferring to play it safe. > > Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54859	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

I don’t think carbon filters chlorine you need a dechlorinator for that. It can remove bad odors or discoloration from your water, but you should not have these problems to begin with. The only thing I ever use carbon for is to remove medications from the tank. Replace it with bio media. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of megablasto2000 Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:01 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions... Is the main purpose of the carbon granules for filtering chlorine and toxins, or is there some other reason for it? I was just thinking it would be real easy to replace the carbon every week if need be. They sell these large containers of it for cheap. If I shouldn't use carbon, what's the alternative, and do I have to change it every so often. Anyone ever keep crayfish? I saw some orange and blue ones that look very cool. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > As hobbyist most of us do not have unlimited budgets, so we have a tendency to "stretch" our supplies. Those little bags of charcoal/carbon do not last forever. The charcoal will absorb until it reaches capacity and then all those toxins go right back into your tank. You would probably be better off without the charcoal,considering studies on the subject. There are a lot of alternatives. > > Many are much cheaper then those little bags with a teaspoon of carbon in them. > > Harry > > > ________________________________ > From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions... > > > >  > Hi John, > > One further thing about activated charcoal and activated carbon: > > A study found that these filter media may cause lateral line erosion in > many South American Cichlids. Notice, I said "may," as I don't believe the > study's conclusive. It has long been suspected though, that the use of these > filter media has a connection with lateral line disease in these fishes. One > more reason to avoid its use, especially when having any of these species > and preferring to play it safe. > > Ray </HTML> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54860	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Ken, The main purpose for using activated carbon in one's filter is to remove impurities, whether they be toxic or not. Chlorine (and Chloramine) should be removed/detoxified by using a quality water conditioner formulated for this purpose, and not left in the water to be relegated as a job for carbon. As PWC's (partial water changes) will remove toxins and other impurities from one's aquarium at a much faster rate and quanity than carbon ever could -- unless your tap water is toxic -- carbon filtration has become obsolete and unnecessary for the purpose it carries out, unless the hobbyist prefers not to make PWC's (which is adverse to all recommended practices for normal aquarium maintenance). As toxin and other impurities or now more efficiently removed via PWC's, the carbon may be replaced by any one of a number of different biological filtration media -- putting this space to a more useful purpose -- i.e., Cobalt Aquatic's Bio-Globes and Ceramic Rings, Eheim's Ehfisubtrat Pro, Seachem's De-Nitrate, Azoo's Bio-Glass or any similar medium. There are some very attractive looking crayfish in the aquarium trade, for the tropical fish tank, but as they're primarily nocturnal, no small fish is safe from predation by them in the same tank. If you want to maintain crayfish together with fish, mke sure to have these fish large enough to be able to fend off attacks by crayfish intending to grab them with their pincers at night when these fish settle down to the bottom to rest. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54861	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Ray Thank you for the detailed response. Regarding substrate, i guess i probably did not make it very visible, but i had mentioned few times that it is sand :)  The input water is hard and i have enough salt deposit problem on the tank glass as well as filter pipes etc. Not sure whether the water(and dissolved salts) and sand combination is triggering PH to go up. Will have to test water and see. The sand is bought from reputed aquarium shop, but then if there is a problem in his sourcing we will not know.   Regarding scooping and scattering debris, it is a thin and small cloud, it is difficult to make it 0, but reduced/controlled in every PWC. Agree with you on the other contents. Thank you once again for the detailed response. Regards Siva ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2013 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, Well, at least you're telling us more than we knew before, each time we ask or suggest something. You never said you substrate was sand. This is not bad if you don't have plants, but as it's obviously the substrate that's boosting your pH to 8.4 -- which I realized from the start (but as it wasn't an issue, I didn't pursue it) -- I have my doubts that you bought this sand in a fish or pet shop. Aquarium sand, sold by pet shops and fish stores are usually inert (unless sold for marine or Rift Lake aquaria) -- it doesn't increase the pH (or at least it shouldn't when sold by a reliable shop). You're telling us a lot just by describing the process of emptying the bags of sand into the tank after the move. As this caused a tank filled as dirty water (most of which got filtered out), do you really think this was the major portion of the dirt? The dirty water undoubtedly was caused by the dirty sand, but most probably only the upper-most portion of the sand that got emptied out of the bags. No telling how much dirt remains throughout the rest of the sand. If this is play sand, which may include limestone granuals (causing the high pH), this type of sand is not washed before sale and often contains ground up leaf litter. This would be enough organic matter to encourage the growth of anaerobic bacteria. No, 7 months is not too long a time for an unsuspected build up of hydrogen and methane to get established, causing the death of your fish. Yes, making a partial water change is one of the first things to consider on any sign of a problem -- but not necessarily carrying it out. If you do make a PWC, as a necessity towards controlling a problem, water parameter test results should not only be taken first (partly to see how necessary the PWC is, and then, to see where the water problem is), but all results should be recorded (in numbers). In this way, if you can't get a handle on the problem, the numbers can help others who may advise you. As your tank was running for two years prior to the move, it had plenty of time to have organic wastes created in it. While I won't say that this dirt penetrated very deeply in sand, it still had the opportunity to get down below the surface somewhat, after this amount of time. Still, it's starting to look like while some organic matter may be at fault, it just may be the sand itself originally containing leaf matter and other ground up organic impurities. I'm sure you must agree, that with the nitrifying bacteria growing only on the surface of the sand, that it was buried when the sand was bagged up. If you're not aware, please know that nitrobacters grow only where they're exposed to the most highly oxygenated water -- firstly in the filter and secondly on all inside surfaces of the tank in contact with the water -- including the top (only) of the substrate. For gravel substrate where oxygenated water reaches a shallow depth, these bacteria may grow down into it between the granuals to approximately 1/2" or so (depending upon the size of the granuals and the amount of water current flowing over the substrate). If you've been finding the need to continually make frequent PWC averaging the 30% (even during the 2 years before your move), mainly just because of the waste you need to clean up from the fish, your cycle can't be very far advanced then or now if its bacteria never had the normal amount of nutrients (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) to feed on and multiply. Not knocking this, but just to advise you that you simply can't have a large cycle (enough nitrifying bacteria to convert the wastes of your fish if you refrained from doing a PWC for a week) when keeping these dissolved organic wastes continually at or near zero, which you may already be aware of -- but there couldn't have been a large amount of these bacteria on the sand before your move to be concerned with. If you're in doubt about what I'm suggesting to you as your problem, try taking a scoop of sand from deep in the substrate with your hand and bringing it up into the water column, releasing it as spreading it throughout the water. Then see how much debris it fills the water with -- and do this AFTER cleaning the substrate in your normal tank maintenance procedure. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54862	From: cliffl	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

An old fish keeper told me you can re-activate the charcoal/carbon by heating it in the oven, don't know if it is true, has anyone any thoughts on it, if it is possible it could save us all some money. Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54863	From: Ava	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Betta with lump on his side?

Hello everyone. Some basic info: Housing What size is your tank? 10 Gallons What temperature is your tank? 80F Does your tank have a filter? Yes Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes Is your tank heated? Yes What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf Frogs Food What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and pellets How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of flakes, about 2-4 pellets. Maintenance How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? ~50% What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water Conditioner Water Parameters: Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? Ammonia: 0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 20ppm pH: 7.6 Hardness: N/A Alkalinity: N/A Symptoms and Treatment How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin rot, but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the middle of his body. How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year now. I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick google search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today though. Has anyone had experience with this?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54864	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the correct term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on the dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the photos that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. Can you either try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more detailed description please? Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best because of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had them, how big they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance schedule would help a lot in offering you some kind of accurate answer to your question. Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be a sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, and there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult fish (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water and temp conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54865	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Cliff, You apparently missed my post on this, but I already mentioned several days ago (on June 6 @ 8:06 AM) that earlier in the hobby, it was believed that baking the used charcoal was thought to rejuvenate it -- but not before boiling it first. To repeat my message, I stated; "When this medium was at its most popular (50 to 60 years ago), a method to 'recharge' it after its use was to first boil it and then spread it on a cookie sheet and bake it in the over for about 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know if this method was ever proven though, but many hobbyists at that time adopted this way of 'rejuvenating' it." I'm one of those "old fish keepers" you described, and I too used to treat used charcoal in this manner although I still couldn't tell you if it really worked or not. I did this with charcoal and I've done this with carbon, just as many others did, as it was recommended to work. I don't know where the idea started from, but just like any other charcoal or carbon today, it's impossible to know if even these partially used media are still useful when used for only 3 weeks or less. The recommendation included more than just "heating" it though; it was to be baked for the time period mentioned. Presumedly, boiling it ensured that most of the physical particles trapped were released from the pores -- which are more obvious in charcoal. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54866	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)

The first thing you need to know is that boiled and then frozen lettuce is NOT a proper food to be offering to the tadpoles or salamanders. Boiling the lettuce will decrease or deplete any nutrient content in the lettuce. Amphibians and fish should never be given food that is still frozen. These animals are cold blooded and thus their body temperature is regulated by their environment. Frozen food or ice cubes in the water will create cold pockets that can easily put their organs into a state of shock and cause them to stop functioning properly (or stop functioning completely). Rapid temperature change can be deadly for these kinds of animals. Consuming something stiff frozen puts them at higher risk for this problem. Considering these are wild caught animals, lettuce is also not on their list of proper foods to provide for their nutritional needs. Salamanders are primarily insectivore (meaning they eat insects such as small worms, mosquito larvae, crickets, small roaches, etc). The specific foods they require are dictated by their species. Tadpoles are vegetarian and feed primarily on various species of algae until they begin to morph into toads/frogs, at which time their diet changes to insectivore. Salamanders are amphibian and need both dry land and water habitat for their long term survival. Many species of salamander also tend to be cannibalistic, so if one outsizes the others at any point, the smaller of them could potentially become food. Again, some species are more known for this than others. Proper foods for the tadpoles would be algae wafers which are readily found in most pet stores. Other things you need to know about both would be their need for clean water. Not only will high waste levels cause them a great deal of harm but high nitrate levels can bottom out pH and amphibians are extremely sensitive to rapid drops in pH or very low pH. Poor water quality will cause open sores/lesions quickly and once infected there is little that can be done to save the animal. Something else to know about salamanders and tadpoles/frogs/toads is to avoid fish medications. These animals absorb such things through the skin which can be lethal. Proper food, clean water, and study of their natural habitat (because they are wild caught) is primarily what you need to know. If there is a safer place for them in their wild habitat near the location where you collected them, then you should work on trying to release them. That would be their best chance for long term survival. The sooner they are released the higher their survival rate. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > I have 3 salamanders and countless tadpoles (2 of which are spending time on my wooden log). I randomly took them home from a pool in willis tucker park because kids kept taking them out and hurting them. I boil lettuice and then after shredding it i freeze it into ice cubes to put in the tank once a week. What else do I need to know about tadpole/ salamander raising. Also, how do I know if my salamanders will become land dwellers or stay in the water? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54867	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Siva, Yes, I'm aware that your substrate is sand. I didn't know this before though, as previous to your last message, you never said your substrate was sand. I learned this only in your last post with your mention of this. After your making this point visible in your last response to me, it was the reason for my reply that its (sand) not bad since you don't have plants. Sand isn't recommended for a planted tank though, as it restricts the root growth. As up until now, you hadn't said where you bought your substrate, I was even starting to think that perhaps this was ocean beach sand -- having lots of minute organic particles trapped throughout it from past millenia. As you bought this sand from a reputed aquarium shop, it would seem that it should be aquarium-safe -- yet there's the good chance that it's still this substrate thats boosting your pH. I don't know if your aquarium shop's source for this sand may be from a beach, but if it isn't recognized by this shop as containing any limestone (which it still could), ocean beach sand would boost your pH as having dried marine salts throughout it. You may want to ask your shop owner about the source of his sand, if he happens to know. This possibility would also explain your salt deposit problem on the tank glass, unless your tap water is unusually hard. As I said though, this would also explain the boost in pH if this were to be ocean beach sand. Since your tap water tests out at pH 7.5, you know it can't be merely the salt deposits in your water contributing to your pH 8.4 tank water -- especially not if you're changing out 30% of your tank water as often as you do. I'd highly recommend changing your substrate if you can, although it would be best to move the fish elsewhere when doing this to make it easier. While your local aquarium shop may be reputable, I would buy your new sand elsewhere -- and then -- a good distance from your area, to ensure that the shop you buy it from doesn't deal with the same dry goods wholesaler. This is one point you should ask both shops about when you purchase your new sand -- who their wholesaler is, so that you're not buying sand from the same source. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54868	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Thanks for the filtration media refs, Ray. My plan is still to re-home these fish. But I will try to make an effort to make sure I feel good about where they go, rather than just give them up to some pet shop that might put them into the feeder tank. I just wanted to say that, in case people are thinking "It sounds like he is planning on having them for a while with all this advice requests." I wouldn't get any other animals until I re-home these fish. I was just thinking about crayfish by themselves. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Ken, > > The main purpose for using activated carbon in one's filter is to remove > impurities, whether they be toxic or not. Chlorine (and Chloramine) should be > removed/detoxified by using a quality water conditioner formulated for this > purpose, and not left in the water to be relegated as a job for carbon. As > PWC's (partial water changes) will remove toxins and other impurities from > one's aquarium at a much faster rate and quanity than carbon ever could -- > unless your tap water is toxic -- carbon filtration has become obsolete and > unnecessary for the purpose it carries out, unless the hobbyist prefers not > to make PWC's (which is adverse to all recommended practices for normal > aquarium maintenance). > > As toxin and other impurities or now more efficiently removed via PWC's, > the carbon may be replaced by any one of a number of different biological > filtration media -- putting this space to a more useful purpose -- i.e., Cobalt > Aquatic's Bio-Globes and Ceramic Rings, Eheim's Ehfisubtrat Pro, Seachem's > De-Nitrate, Azoo's Bio-Glass or any similar medium. > > There are some very attractive looking crayfish in the aquarium trade, for > the tropical fish tank, but as they're primarily nocturnal, no small fish is > safe from predation by them in the same tank. If you want to maintain > crayfish together with fish, mke sure to have these fish large enough to be able > to fend off attacks by crayfish intending to grab them with their pincers > at night when these fish settle down to the bottom to rest. > > Ray </HTML> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54869	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Got me a new aquarium light

Just thought I would share my latest lighting experience in case anyone now or in the future is looking for a review. My 3-foot 30 gallon tank's DIY (do it yourself) Compact Fluorescent light fixture's ballast died on me for a second time. So faced with buying another ballast to repair my cheap DIY wood hood plus being about time for a new 55W lamp anyway, I decided to price out current lighting fixtures. The tank is usually planted, although a little sparse at the moment, but my plants tend to be low light tolerant easy to grow ones like Java Ferns and Java Moss, various Crypts, Anubius, hornwort, or whatever else I run across that will do well in a low tech (plant-wise) tank. So I don't need one of those $200+ high light fixtures and wasn't looking to spend much more than about $100 or less if I could get away with it. I could replace the lamp and ballast in my fixture for about $40 or get a new 96W lamp for another DIY fixture I made for about $30-ish. Anyway, I ended up trying out an Aquatic Life's T5 HO 2-Lamp fixture... http://www.aquaticlife.com/products/277 which I got for $102.50 shipped and includes the lamps. Hard to beat that price. You pick freshwater or marine which determines which lamps are included. For freshwater the fixture comes with (1) 36" 39W T5 HO 6K ("Daylight") Lamp & (1) 36" 39W T5 HO 650nm Lamp, the latter being more or less your pinkish/purplish "gro-lux" type lamp. So I received it and set it up. Set up is a little bit of a pain in the arse. You have to take the end caps off in order to attach the included legs & each end cap held in place by 4 Philips screws. And even changing lamps will require removing one end cap and sliding out the acrylic shield to get to them. And then adjusting four independent legs to fit your tank take a bit of fiddling and three hands. Fortunately you should only need to set the legs ONCE and lamps only need changing once every year give or take. The nice thing about the legs system is that they can be adjusted to fit most tanks from the tank's length plus about 4 inches (the legs can stick out on either side of the fixture an inch or two on each side) down to sliding the legs in to fix on smaller lengths. The light looks very nice. I was a little concerned what the over all color would look like with the mixed lamps, but it looks very natural to my eye, not much different than the CF fixture I had up previously. The light on legs feature has a few tradeoffs. Previously I was using a glass cover and the fixture sitting directly on the glass cover, so all the light was going down into the tank. With the new fixture being up a good 4 inches or so above the frame, it tends to light up the room with direct light from the fixture (instead of through the tank). In addition, because of the light being above the surface of the tank, I decided to remove the glass cover as it caused a lot of reflection and glare coming off the top of the glass, especially as you approached the tank, you basically see the direct reflection of the lamps in the fixture. But on the other hand, I have always liked open top tanks (just don't pick fish known to be jumpers) and now with the fixture being a good 6-inches or so off the water surface, I am going to pick up some floating plants, many of which are often unsuited for tanks where the glass top and light are an inch or two off the water. Water Sprite is one that most people don't realize when you grow it floating will grow up out of the water if given room and looks nice I think. So over all I am very pleased with the light. Cheap, attractive, good light output and color and the lamps are included. I can run the tank open top and get to explore some floating plants. On the con side, a little bit of setup work required which could have been designed to be easier. And with the light raised above the tank, many people may find if they must have a glass top, that they may experience too much reflection, glare, and light in the room from the fixture. Obviously I have no experience on reliability as I just got it, so it remains to be seen if this fixture stays in use without troubles over the long term. We shall see. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54870	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there anything your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming into/out of hiding places. Amber On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > Some basic info: > > Housing > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > What temperature is your tank? 80F > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > Is your tank heated? Yes > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf Frogs > > Food > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and pellets > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > Maintenance > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > change? ~50% > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > Conditioner > > Water Parameters: > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? > > Ammonia: 0ppm > Nitrite: 0ppm > Nitrate: 20ppm > pH: 7.6 > Hardness: N/A > Alkalinity: N/A > > Symptoms and Treatment > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin rot, > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the middle > of his body. > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year now. > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick google > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today though. > Has anyone had experience with this? > > __ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54871	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Is the goldfish having trouble swimming properly? Is it upside down sometimes and has trouble righting itself, or does it have trouble getting to/from the surface? It's possible that they are constipated and that is why they appear "swollen or bumpy" How much and how often do you feed your fish? Amber Berglund On 6/10/2013 11:42 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live > birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the > correct term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". > It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on > the dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the > photos that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. > Can you either try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more > detailed description please? > Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best > because of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had > them, how big they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance > schedule would help a lot in offering you some kind of accurate answer > to your question. > > Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't > necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be > a sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, > and there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult > fish (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water > and temp conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Michelle" > <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing > pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one > that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has > been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time > near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent > pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? > > > > __._ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54872	From: harry perry	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Michelle,       Here are some pics of gravid fish...... https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+gravid+goldfish&complete=0&hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=B0S2Ud-NF9Kr4APlsoGAAg&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=597 Harry ________________________________ From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:42 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Are my fish pregnant?   Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the correct term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on the dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the photos that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. Can you either try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more detailed description please? Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best because of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had them, how big they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance schedule would help a lot in offering you some kind of accurate answer to your question. Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be a sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, and there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult fish (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water and temp conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54873	From: Amber	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Crayfish can be kept together in a species only tank, given that you have enough hiding places for them to all claim a territory. They like a well planted tank with caves/tunnels. If you want a very pretty and smaller crayfish (they can be kept in a smaller tank) check out dwarf crayfish also called CPO. They are a very pretty orange color and stay less than 2 inches in size max. I have read that they are less territorial if you have more crayfish together in a tank, as they stake out a smaller size of territory. But I don't know if this is true, it was not from a reputable source for information. Amber Berglund On 6/10/2013 12:35 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > Thanks for the filtration media refs, Ray. > > My plan is still to re-home these fish. But I will try to make an > effort to make sure I feel good about where they go, rather than just > give them up to some pet shop that might put them into the feeder > tank. I just wanted to say that, in case people are thinking "It > sounds like he is planning on having them for a while with all this > advice requests." > > I wouldn't get any other animals until I re-home these fish. I was > just thinking about crayfish by themselves. > > -Ken > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54874	From: Michelle	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

She has laid eggs before --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Michelle, > >       Here are some pics of gravid fish...... > > https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+gravid+goldfish&complete=0&hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=B0S2Ud-NF9Kr4APlsoGAAg&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=597 > > Harry > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:42 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Are my fish pregnant? > > > >   > Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the correct term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". > It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on the dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the photos that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. Can you either try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more detailed description please? > Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best because of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had them, how big they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance schedule would help a lot in offering you some kind of accurate answer to your question. > > Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be a sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, and there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult fish (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water and temp conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54875	From: Ava	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of that he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it looks swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there anything > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming into/out > of hiding places. > > Amber > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > Some basic info: > > > > Housing > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf Frogs > > > > Food > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and pellets > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > Maintenance > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > change? ~50% > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > Conditioner > > > > Water Parameters: > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > pH: 7.6 > > Hardness: N/A > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin rot, > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the middle > > of his body. > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year now. > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick google > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today though. > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > __ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54876	From: Michelle	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

She swims properly, but she loves sitting in the bubbles. I feed my fish twice a day. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Is the goldfish having trouble swimming properly? Is it upside down > sometimes and has trouble righting itself, or does it have trouble > getting to/from the surface? > It's possible that they are constipated and that is why they appear > "swollen or bumpy" > How much and how often do you feed your fish? > > Amber Berglund > > On 6/10/2013 11:42 AM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live > > birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the > > correct term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". > > It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on > > the dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the > > photos that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. > > Can you either try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more > > detailed description please? > > Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best > > because of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had > > them, how big they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters > > for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance > > schedule would help a lot in offering you some kind of accurate answer > > to your question. > > > > Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't > > necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be > > a sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, > > and there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult > > fish (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water > > and temp conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, "Michelle" > > <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing > > pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one > > that is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has > > been near the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time > > near the bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent > > pregnant, can I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? > > > > > > > __._ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54877	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Hi Michelle, I am by no means an expert in Fancy Goldfish but looking at your pictures there doesn't appear to be anything amiss with either of them at face value. Fancy Goldfish by their very nature are short, squat & fat bodied compared to their more 'fish shaped' cousins the Shubunkin, Comet & Common Goldfish. I would suggest you remove that sea shell because it's calcium & that can seriously affect the natural pH of your water & furthermore those sharp looking spines look like a potential hazard to your fish, if they caught themselves they could get some serious injuries. Always try to use decor that is smooth & has no protruding points or sharp edges. It may be just the lighting but your water looks quite murky so be sure to make plenty of partial water changes which keeps any potentially harmful toxins diluted. Can you tell us how often you do partial water changes? Spending time with her butt in the bubble stream is nothing to worry about at face value either. Goldfish are intelligent creatures & will often adopt unique habits or actions as they see fit. One of my fish often sits with his rear end in the bubble stream & will sometimes hook one of his pectoral fins around the airline to ensure he doesn't drift off his 'jacuzzi' he likes it so much! John*<o)))<* On 10 June 2013 22:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > ** > > > She has laid eggs before > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > wrote: > > > > Michelle, > > > > � � � � � Here are some pics of gravid fish...... > > > > > https://www.google.com/search?q=pics+of+gravid+goldfish&complete=0&hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=B0S2Ud-NF9Kr4APlsoGAAg&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=597 > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:42 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Are my fish pregnant? > > > > > > > > � > > Let me start by saying that "pregnant" refers to those who give live > birth to their young. Goldfish are egg layers/scatterers and the correct > term for a female full of eggs is "gravid". > > It's impossible to say if your fish are gravid, especially based on the > dark and blurred photos that were posted. There was nothing in the photos > that showed what you referred to as "bumpy" in the one fish. Can you either > try to post some clearer photos or try to offer a more detailed description > please? > > Determining when a fancy goldfish is gravid is difficult at best because > of their shape. Some history of the fish, how long you've had them, how big > they are, what size tank they're in, water parameters for ammonia, nitrite, > nitrate, pH, water temp, and maintenance schedule would help a lot in > offering you some kind of accurate answer to your question. > > > > Also please be aware that if your fish is gravid that doesn't > necessarily mean you will see eggs or fry. There would also need to be a > sexually mature male in the tank who is ready to fertilize the eggs, and > there would also have to be proper conditions to prevent the adult fish > (and other fish) in the tank from eating them, along with water and temp > conditions appropriate for the eggs to hatch. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > I have an album (pictures should be approved in a bit) containing > pictures of two fish i think may be pregnant. I have a ryukin and one that > is like a golden version of the black moor. The golden one has been near > the bottom lately and looks bumpy. She spends a lot of time near the > bubbles sticking her butt in the bubbles. Also, if they arent pregnant, can > I get some pictures of ones that are so I can compare them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54878	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about fishy smell

Hi Ray Thank you so much for your detailed advise.  I am planning to replace the substrate. Will keep in mind the points you have mentioned.  Thank you once again. Regards Siva ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss@..." <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 11 June 2013 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about fishy smell   Hi Siva, Yes, I'm aware that your substrate is sand. I didn't know this before though, as previous to your last message, you never said your substrate was sand. I learned this only in your last post with your mention of this. After your making this point visible in your last response to me, it was the reason for my reply that its (sand) not bad since you don't have plants. Sand isn't recommended for a planted tank though, as it restricts the root growth. As up until now, you hadn't said where you bought your substrate, I was even starting to think that perhaps this was ocean beach sand -- having lots of minute organic particles trapped throughout it from past millenia. As you bought this sand from a reputed aquarium shop, it would seem that it should be aquarium-safe -- yet there's the good chance that it's still this substrate thats boosting your pH. I don't know if your aquarium shop's source for this sand may be from a beach, but if it isn't recognized by this shop as containing any limestone (which it still could), ocean beach sand would boost your pH as having dried marine salts throughout it. You may want to ask your shop owner about the source of his sand, if he happens to know. This possibility would also explain your salt deposit problem on the tank glass, unless your tap water is unusually hard. As I said though, this would also explain the boost in pH if this were to be ocean beach sand. Since your tap water tests out at pH 7.5, you know it can't be merely the salt deposits in your water contributing to your pH 8.4 tank water -- especially not if you're changing out 30% of your tank water as often as you do. I'd highly recommend changing your substrate if you can, although it would be best to move the fish elsewhere when doing this to make it easier. While your local aquarium shop may be reputable, I would buy your new sand elsewhere -- and then -- a good distance from your area, to ensure that the shop you buy it from doesn't deal with the same dry goods wholesaler. This is one point you should ask both shops about when you purchase your new sand -- who their wholesaler is, so that you're not buying sand from the same source. Ray </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54879	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

Hi Ava, I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. John*<o)))<* On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of that > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it looks > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there anything > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming into/out > > of hiding places. > > > > Amber > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > Housing > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf Frogs > > > > > > Food > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and pellets > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > Maintenance > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > change? ~50% > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > Conditioner > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > pH: 7.6 > > > Hardness: N/A > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin rot, > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the middle > > > of his body. > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > now. > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick google > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today though. > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54880	From: Jaiko	Date: 6/10/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Were in Hollywood are you located? Wendsday at six well be fine Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: >Crayfish can be kept together in a species only tank, given that you >have enough hiding places for them to all claim a territory. They like a >well planted tank with caves/tunnels. If you want a very pretty and >smaller crayfish (they can be kept in a smaller tank) check out dwarf >crayfish also called CPO. They are a very pretty orange color and stay >less than 2 inches in size max. > >I have read that they are less territorial if you have more crayfish >together in a tank, as they stake out a smaller size of territory. But I >don't know if this is true, it was not from a reputable source for >information. > >Amber Berglund > >On 6/10/2013 12:35 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: >> >> Thanks for the filtration media refs, Ray. >> >> My plan is still to re-home these fish. But I will try to make an >> effort to make sure I feel good about where they go, rather than just >> give them up to some pet shop that might put them into the feeder >> tank. I just wanted to say that, in case people are thinking "It >> sounds like he is planning on having them for a while with all this >> advice requests." >> >> I wouldn't get any other animals until I re-home these fish. I was >> just thinking about crayfish by themselves. >> >> -Ken >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54881	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Hi Michelle, Following up on Dawn's reply to you, I felt the need to further clarify the terms being used -- even though it may add some confusion. Of course the term "pregnant" when discussing fish refers only to those Livebearer fishes (Mollies, Platies, Swordtails, Guppies, etc.) which give birth to live fry. While the term "gravid" most often refers also to carrying young, with fishes it means carrying eggs or carrying live young. So, "gravid" may be applied both to egglayers (such as Goldfish) and to livebearers (such as Swordtails). This term in not restricted to just egglaying fishes. Livebearing fishes carrying eggs that have not yet been fertilized are said to be gravid, as well as are livebearing fishes carrying live fry. With female livebearers having skin coloration not restricting our viewing of their ovaries (towards the rear of their abdomen), we're able to see this darkened area -- referred to as their "gravid spot" -- when noticeably carrying live fry. When these same fish are just heavy with yet to be fertilized eggs, we still refer to these fish as being "gravid," even though not yet pregnant at this stage (but are also described as "gravid" at the stage of carrying live fry). When these livebearers are just carrying unfertilized eggs (and they are described as being gravid at this stage), this area is often quite dark, often giving the hobbyist the impression that the fish is carrying young. Other terms for Goldfish and other egglayers noticeably carrying eggs are " egg-laiden" (not to be confused with the term, egg-bound), "conditioned" and "ripe," as with carrying eggs ready to be fertilized by a male, upon the expulsion of these eggs. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54882	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish owner - some noob questions...

Ken, Keeping a single crayfish, with no other inhabitants, would be perfectly fine. I do need to remind you though, that invertibrates are not quite as tolerant to impurities in the water. They may not be for the beginning hobbyist not yet having experience keeping aquatic animals. I'm not saying that fish can tolerate a lot of impurities (they can't), but crayfish won't tolerate as much. The water needs to be kept even more free of impurities with crayfish. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54883	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Are my fish pregnant?

Michelle, Amber makes a good point here. The fancy goldfish varieties are known to often have swim bladder problem and constipation issues. While other pics requested by Dawn , that you may be posting, may show this fish's condition better, constipation problems can often be cleared up by feeding shelled green peas if it's determined this is the problem. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54884	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: A whole new world (Tadpoles and Salamanders)

Hi again Michelle, I don't know what kind of lettuce you've been offering your little animals, but Iceberg Lettuce should never be fed to any smaller omnivores or herbivores. For your animals, please follow Dawn's recommendations especially as salamanders are insectivores (and tadpoles feed on algae). If you happen to acquire a small reptile or amphibian in the future which feeds on vegetable matter, part of its diet can be Romaine Lettuce, Green or Red Leaf Lettuce, Escarole and similar lettuces. I would assume that Arugula, Water Cress, Boston, Bibb, Endive and others may also be used, but I've never tried them. Iceberg Lettuce has very little (if any) nutrients, whereas the ones I've mentioned contain Vitamin C, Iron, Calcium and other benefits. Iceberg Lettuce will also promote diarhia in these animal that require vegetative matter and dehydrate them. As Dawn mentions too, none of these lettuces should ever be boiled. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54885	From: johnd	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Daphnia north of Boston?

I live north of Boston Ma. Where can I get some Daphnia?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54886	From: panickingberserker	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER

I'm so sorry to be so flustered. I've never owned a betta fish before, and all the information I get from friends seems rather conflicting. I've had him for two weeks in a second hand tank of about 5 gallons. He is the only fish in this tank. He has a filter and a real plant. The water has been conditioned. Unfortunately, I only managed to buy him a heater 3 days ago, and I have noticed this since then: His behavior has become lethargic. He doesn't seem to be eating well. His tail has an odd yellow discoloration. As a student in England with no car, I cannot get out to any pet store or aquatics house. All the shops closed at 6pm and i only got in at 8pm. I've foolishly tried to clean his tail off gently with a cotton bud, and I think I have torn and damaged it more than helped any. I am now very worried and would dearly love some assistance! Pictures below of current situation: temperature: http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2938_zps26ba44f7.jpg tank: http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2937_zps85b660c0.jpg when I got him: http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2875_zps74f65be8.jpg As he is now: http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2941_zpsc67f9d80.jpg Please answer as soon as possible! I feel just terrible watching him in his tank. :C

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54887	From: Ava	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

John, I created an album called "BETTA BUMP" --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ava, > > I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or > two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of that > > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it looks > > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there anything > > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming into/out > > > of hiding places. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > > > Housing > > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf Frogs > > > > > > > > Food > > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and pellets > > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > > > Maintenance > > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > > change? ~50% > > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > > Conditioner > > > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters? > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > pH: 7.6 > > > > Hardness: N/A > > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin rot, > > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the middle > > > > of his body. > > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > > now. > > > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick google > > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today though. > > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54888	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Here are my goldfish

http://youtu.be/ETXUJKi_kjg I think they are all "common" goldfish, except the pot-bellied one?? What do you think? Sorry if this is a re-post. I tried to send a message and got an error the first time. -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54889	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/11/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish

Hi Ken, Fabulous looking fish, I particularly like the one with the orange spot on his back-yes they are all Common Goldfish except the fancy which [I think] is a Ryukin. They all look so alert & happy so given the right conditions those Commons should grow to almost a foot long & live over 25 years, the fancy will grow to the size of a softball with fins! This is why you need vast tanks & massive filtration for Goldfish to thrive. Any luck yet with the re-homing? John*<o)))<* On 11 June 2013 22:13, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > http://youtu.be/ETXUJKi_kjg > > I think they are all "common" goldfish, except the pot-bellied one?? What > do you think? > > Sorry if this is a re-post. I tried to send a message and got an error the > first time. > > -Ken > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54890	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hello, I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following details. Size of Aquarium = Type of Fish & Quantity = Size of Fish = Regards, Faisal Ashraf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54891	From: Amber	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER

Is there a way you can get Pimafix or Melafix? They are good natural meds than can often help with torn fins. I have never heard of a betta having an odd yellow discoloration... what is his color normally? How warm is the tank now, and what was it when you added the heater? You may have raised the temps too fast and too much all at once, which can easily stress a fish and cause them to get sick. Amber On 6/11/2013 11:42 AM, panickingberserker wrote: > > I'm so sorry to be so flustered. > > I've never owned a betta fish before, and all the information I get > from friends seems rather conflicting. > > I've had him for two weeks in a second hand tank of about 5 gallons. > He is the only fish in this tank. He has a filter and a real plant. > The water has been conditioned. > > Unfortunately, I only managed to buy him a heater 3 days ago, and I > have noticed this since then: > > His behavior has become lethargic. > > He doesn't seem to be eating well. > > His tail has an odd yellow discoloration. > > As a student in England with no car, I cannot get out to any pet store > or aquatics house. All the shops closed at 6pm and i only got in at 8pm. > > I've foolishly tried to clean his tail off gently with a cotton bud, > and I think I have torn and damaged it more than helped any. I am now > very worried and would dearly love some assistance! > > Pictures below of current situation: > > temperature: > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2938_zps26ba44f7.jpg > > tank: > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2937_zps85b660c0.jpg > > when I got him: > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2875_zps74f65be8.jpg > > As he is now: > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2941_zpsc67f9d80.jpg > > Please answer as soon as possible! I feel just terrible watching him > in his tank. :C > > __ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54892	From: Amber Larr	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Size of Aquarium: 55 gallon (4 feet long) Type of Fish: Bala Shark (2) Tiger Barb (4) Rainbow Shark (1) Size of fish: Bala Shark (3-4 Inches) Tiger Barbs: (2-3 inches) Rainbow Shark: (4 Inches) ________________________________ From: Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 6:57 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] What type of Fishes you Have ? Hello, I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following details. Size of Aquarium = Type of Fish & Quantity = Size of Fish = Regards, Faisal Ashraf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54893	From: panickingberserker	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER

unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore. He's dead. I found the little guy lodged behind the filter. I figure he must have swam behind it and gotten stuck, then suffocated. Needless to say, I will take extra precautions should I attempt to get another betta. I thank you for replying so soon. I'm still very unsure about fish in general, people keep telling me contrasting infromation. Some saying tanks don't need cycling and others saying they do, same with PH testers and water changes. If I could have a clear and in detail list of what I need to do and what is a must, perhaps I will have better luck. I feel like such a failure as an owner, but thank you so much for replying. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Is there a way you can get Pimafix or Melafix? They are good natural > meds than can often help with torn fins. > I have never heard of a betta having an odd yellow discoloration... what > is his color normally? > How warm is the tank now, and what was it when you added the heater? You > may have raised the temps too fast and too much all at once, which can > easily stress a fish and cause them to get sick. > > Amber > > On 6/11/2013 11:42 AM, panickingberserker wrote: > > > > I'm so sorry to be so flustered. > > > > I've never owned a betta fish before, and all the information I get > > from friends seems rather conflicting. > > > > I've had him for two weeks in a second hand tank of about 5 gallons. > > He is the only fish in this tank. He has a filter and a real plant. > > The water has been conditioned. > > > > Unfortunately, I only managed to buy him a heater 3 days ago, and I > > have noticed this since then: > > > > His behavior has become lethargic. > > > > He doesn't seem to be eating well. > > > > His tail has an odd yellow discoloration. > > > > As a student in England with no car, I cannot get out to any pet store > > or aquatics house. All the shops closed at 6pm and i only got in at 8pm. > > > > I've foolishly tried to clean his tail off gently with a cotton bud, > > and I think I have torn and damaged it more than helped any. I am now > > very worried and would dearly love some assistance! > > > > Pictures below of current situation: > > > > temperature: > > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2938_zps26ba44f7.jpg > > > > tank: > > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2937_zps85b660c0.jpg > > > > when I got him: > > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2875_zps74f65be8.jpg > > > > As he is now: > > http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2941_zpsc67f9d80.jpg > > > > Please answer as soon as possible! I feel just terrible watching him > > in his tank. :C > > > > __ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54894	From: Ava	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

I have 3 freshwater tanks. 1. 30 gallon tall-3 fancy goldfish: Black Moor, Fantail, and a hybrid. Black moor and fantail are about 2-4", hybrid is a little 1" guy. 2. 10 gallon-1 male betta, 3 african dwarf frogs 3. 40 gallon breeder-3 axolotls (they're an aquatic salamander), they are around 7-8" long. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > details. > > Size of Aquarium = > Type of Fish & Quantity = > Size of Fish = > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54895	From: Amber	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER

I'm very sorry to hear about your fish loss :( I lost quite a few when I started out, I knew nothing about cycling a tank and learned the hard way. Anyone saying a tank doesn't need cycled doesn't know enough information, all tanks when they are set up new (even a betta tank) will go through a cycle. It doesn't affect a betta as bad as it would fish that are only gill breathers, but betta's have both gills and a lung like organ, so they can breathe through the water and go to the surface. I've found that most betta's will go to the surface unless you have very clean water. It is unusual for a healthy fish to get stuck to a filter intake, but a sick fish can easily get pulled in by the current and get stuck. If you want to stay with just a betta as your "starter" fish that's completely up to you, just keep in mind to do water changes regularly (it's better if you change a little bit of water often rather than changing all of your betta's water at one time). I would recommend changing 1/4 approximately of his water daily, if you can avoid dumping your fish out or netting him it will be less stressful for your betta. You can get airline tubing and use it as a tiny syphon, this way you can get the debris off the bottom of his tank and you can tie the tubing to a chopstick or something similar (plastic might be better as it wouldn't rot from the water) and use the stick to stir up the gravel in the tank (if you have any) that way you can get any detritus hiding in the gravel. If you have chlorine/chloramines in your water supply make sure to use a good dechlorinator product. Your local water company will usually provide information about your water, such as what is in it (chemicals) and what the pH is supposed to be from the tap. A good test kit is made by API called a master test kit (freshwater). This is a good kit for a decent price (usually at least). It has liquid reagents and glass vials, and it is much more reliable than the "dip strips" you can also find to test your tank parameters. Feel free to ask questions, I know I have asked plenty, and I still have questions from time to time. Amber Berglund On 6/12/2013 11:57 AM, panickingberserker wrote: > > unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore. He's dead. > > I found the little guy lodged behind the filter. I figure he must have > swam behind it and gotten stuck, then suffocated. > > Needless to say, I will take extra precautions should I attempt to get > another betta. I thank you for replying so soon. > > I'm still very unsure about fish in general, people keep telling me > contrasting infromation. Some saying tanks don't need cycling and > others saying they do, same with PH testers and water changes. > > If I could have a clear and in detail list of what I need to do and > what is a must, perhaps I will have better luck. > > I feel like such a failure as an owner, but thank you so much for > replying. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Is there a way you can get Pimafix or Melafix? They are good natural > > meds than can often help with torn fins. > > I have never heard of a betta having an odd yellow discoloration... > what > > is his color normally? > > How warm is the tank now, and what was it when you added the heater? > You > > may have raised the temps too fast and too much all at once, which can > > easily stress a fish and cause them to get sick. > > > > Amber > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54896	From: Robert	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER

Don't feel bad. Fish keeping is virtually an entire science full of knowledge, you just didn't know. All of us went through the painful stage of beginnerism. Now you can learn enough to give fish a happy home in the future. Robert -------Original Message------- From: panickingberserker Date: 06/13/13 06:32:41 To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: PANICKING FIRST TIME OWNER unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore. He's dead. I found the little guy lodged behind the filter. I figure he must have swam behind it and gotten stuck, then suffocated. Needless to say, I will take extra precautions should I attempt to get another betta. I thank you for replying so soon. I'm still very unsure about fish in general, people keep telling me contrasting infromation. Some saying tanks don't need cycling and others saying they do, same with PH testers and water changes. If I could have a clear and in detail list of what I need to do and what is a must, perhaps I will have better luck. I feel like such a failure as an owner, but thank you so much for replying. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Is there a way you can get Pimafix or Melafix? They are good natural > meds than can often help with torn fins. > I have never heard of a betta having an odd yellow discoloration... what > is his color normally? > How warm is the tank now, and what was it when you added the heater? You > may have raised the temps too fast and too much all at once, which can > easily stress a fish and cause them to get sick. > > Amber > > On 6/11/2013 11:42 AM, panickingberserker wrote: > > > > I'm so sorry to be so flustered. > > > > I've never owned a betta fish before, and all the information I get > > from friends seems rather conflicting. > > > > I've had him for two weeks in a second hand tank of about 5 gallons. > > He is the only fish in this tank. He has a filter and a real plant. > > The water has been conditioned. > > > > Unfortunately, I only managed to buy him a heater 3 days ago, and I > > have noticed this since then: > > > > His behavior has become lethargic. > > > > He doesn't seem to be eating well. > > > > His tail has an odd yellow discoloration. > > > > As a student in England with no car, I cannot get out to any pet store > > or aquatics house. All the shops closed at 6pm and i only got in at 8pm. > > > > I've foolishly tried to clean his tail off gently with a cotton bud, > > and I think I have torn and damaged it more than helped any. I am now > > very worried and would dearly love some assistance! > > > > Pictures below of current situation: > > > > temperature: > > http://i770.photobucket com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2938_zps26ba44f7.jpg > > > > tank: > > http://i770.photobucket com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2937_zps85b660c0.jpg > > > > when I got him: > > http://i770.photobucket com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2875_zps74f65be8.jpg > > > > As he is now: > > http://i770.photobucket com/albums/xx347/shivar_darling/IMG_2941_zpsc67f9d80.jpg > > > > Please answer as soon as possible! I feel just terrible watching him > > in his tank. :C > > > > __ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54897	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi Faisal, Size of Aquarium: 100 UK gallons, 8 feet long x 20" square section Type Of Fish & Quantity: 3 x male Comets & 1 x female Common Goldfish aged 8-10 years Size of Fish: All approx 8"+ long, growing approx half inch per year John*<o)))<* On 12 June 2013 19:56, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have 3 freshwater tanks. > 1. 30 gallon tall-3 fancy goldfish: Black Moor, Fantail, and a hybrid. > Black moor and fantail are about 2-4", hybrid is a little 1" guy. > 2. 10 gallon-1 male betta, 3 african dwarf frogs > 3. 40 gallon breeder-3 axolotls (they're an aquatic salamander), they are > around 7-8" long. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > details. > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > Size of Fish = > > > > Regards, > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54898	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

Hi Ava, Thanks for posting the pictures, could be an ulcer or a tumor-what do others think? John*<o)))<* On 11 June 2013 20:41, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, I created an album called "BETTA BUMP" > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or > > two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of > that > > > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it > looks > > > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there > anything > > > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming > into/out > > > > of hiding places. > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > > > > > Housing > > > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf > Frogs > > > > > > > > > > Food > > > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and > pellets > > > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > > > > > Maintenance > > > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > > > change? ~50% > > > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > > > Conditioner > > > > > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following > parameters? > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > pH: 7.6 > > > > > Hardness: N/A > > > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin > rot, > > > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the > middle > > > > > of his body. > > > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick > google > > > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today > though. > > > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54899	From: Ava	Date: 6/12/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

If it is one of those things, how would I go about treating it? I also have african dwarf frogs and live plants in the tank, so preferably something that wouldn't harm them. -Ava --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ava, > > Thanks for posting the pictures, could be an ulcer or a tumor-what do > others think? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 11 June 2013 20:41, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > John, I created an album called "BETTA BUMP" > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > > > I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or > > > two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of > > that > > > > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it > > looks > > > > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there > > anything > > > > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > > > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > > > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming > > into/out > > > > > of hiding places. > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > > > > > > > Housing > > > > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf > > Frogs > > > > > > > > > > > > Food > > > > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and > > pellets > > > > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maintenance > > > > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > > > > change? ~50% > > > > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > > > > Conditioner > > > > > > > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following > > parameters? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > pH: 7.6 > > > > > > Hardness: N/A > > > > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin > > rot, > > > > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the > > middle > > > > > > of his body. > > > > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick > > google > > > > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today > > though. > > > > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54900	From: cobra427lady	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

I have 3 tanks, two of which are heavily planted: 115G: assorted larger rainbow species (iranian reds, turquoise, goyter rivers, parkies, etc) and roseline sharks, plus a few cory, pleco and a royal farlowella for clean up. 90G: assorted smaller rainbow species (gertrudes, threadfins, forktails, mcchullochis, etc), peacock gudgeons and an assorted clean up crew. Also houses a thriving group of amano shrimp 20G Breeder: quarrantine/hospital tank with a few very hardy and breeding neolamprologus multifaciatis (shell dwellers) to keep the bio load going ... nothing affects these fish! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > details. > > Size of Aquarium = > Type of Fish & Quantity = > Size of Fish = > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54901	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

That does appear to be some type of tumor based on the photos you posted. Unfortunately there is no treatment to fix a tumor and there is no medication that you could safely put into the tank containing frogs. The best thing you can do is to keep the water clean and make sure he's getting a nutritious diet. He appears to be quite large in the abdomen aside from the "bump". Could you tell us what you are feeding him and how much, how often? Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > If it is one of those things, how would I go about treating it? I also have african dwarf frogs and live plants in the tank, so preferably something that wouldn't harm them. > -Ava > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > Thanks for posting the pictures, could be an ulcer or a tumor-what do > > others think? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 11 June 2013 20:41, Ava <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > John, I created an album called "BETTA BUMP" > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > > > > > I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or > > > > two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of > > > that > > > > > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it > > > looks > > > > > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there > > > anything > > > > > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > > > > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > > > > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming > > > into/out > > > > > > of hiding places. > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Housing > > > > > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > > > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > > > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > > > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > > > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > > > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf > > > Frogs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food > > > > > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and > > > pellets > > > > > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > > > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maintenance > > > > > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > > > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > > > > > change? ~50% > > > > > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > > > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > > > > > Conditioner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > > > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following > > > parameters? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > > > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > pH: 7.6 > > > > > > > Hardness: N/A > > > > > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > > > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin > > > rot, > > > > > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the > > > middle > > > > > > > of his body. > > > > > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > > > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > > > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > > > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > > > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > > > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > > > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick > > > google > > > > > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > > > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today > > > though. > > > > > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54902	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

1. 20 gallon (tall) with cherry shrimp breeding colony and live plants. Best guess would be about 20 - 25 shrimp right now. Started with a male/female pair. 2. 65 gallon with one 5" male angelfish, 2 gold white clouds, heavily planted with naja grass. 3. 65 gallon with 1 (3") angelfish, 1 (3.5") rubber pleco, 1 (2.5") clown loach, 4 (1") zebra danios, heavily planted with willow moss, brazilian swords, bacopa, frogbit, dwarf water lettuce. 4. 65 gallon with 1 (4.5") daffodil brichardi, 1 (4") dwarf synodontis catfish, 1 (3.5") upside down catfish, infested with ram's horn and trumpet snails, minimal live plants (naja grass). 5. 215 gallon with 4 (3 - 4") angelfish, 3 (3") botia striata, 4 (2 - 4") bristlenose plecos, 1 (2") gold barb, moderately planted with 2 different species of wisteria, various species of crypts, flame moss, taiwan moss, brazilian swords, java fern, frogbit, dwarf water lettuce, water sprite. 6. 215 gallon with 4 (7 - 9") geophagus iporangensis, 1 (6") firemouth, 1 (16") standard pleco, no live plants. I also currently have a 30 gallon (long) vivarium with plants growing up and out, no animals, and 2 saltwater reef tanks, 75 gallon and 29 gallon biocube. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > details. > > Size of Aquarium = > Type of Fish & Quantity = > Size of Fish = > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54903	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/13/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

1 20 gallon, with 8 pristella tetras and a gold tetra who have been with me for years, and three otocincluses. Plastic plants. Grin. Dora --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > details. > > Size of Aquarium = > Type of Fish & Quantity = > Size of Fish = > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54904	From: Avin Deen	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi Faisal I have a 4 X 2 X 2 tanks- which I think is a little more than 100 gallons- not very used to measuring in gallons. I currently have 1 wild type looking angel 1 blotched up wild pattern- angel 3 black angels I had 3 more angels but they were killed by the others in the last two months- they were approximately a year old. then there is a Pearl Gourami- probably male 2 bristlenose catfish and 1 Garra Cambodgiensis and a few plants I am planning to add a shoaling or schooling species- either cherry barbs or lemon tetras- would welcome any suggestions. cheers Avin   "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's" for "Here was a Caesar! when comes such another?" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54905	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update

I just put an ad up today... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pet/3870017202.html I wish I could keep them. They are so active and happy right now. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Fabulous looking fish, I particularly like the one with the orange spot > on his back-yes they are all Common Goldfish except the fancy which [I > think] is a Ryukin. They all look so alert & happy so given the right > conditions those Commons should grow to almost a foot long & live over 25 > years, the fancy will grow to the size of a softball with fins! This is why > you need vast tanks & massive filtration for Goldfish to thrive. Any luck > yet with the re-homing? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 11 June 2013 22:13, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > http://youtu.be/ETXUJKi_kjg > > > > I think they are all "common" goldfish, except the pot-bellied one?? What > > do you think? > > > > Sorry if this is a re-post. I tried to send a message and got an error the > > first time. > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54906	From: Ava	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

Dawn, all info is in my original post. :) He may be a tad chubby recently because I toss small pellets in the tank for my African Dwarf Frogs and some don't sink immediately so he'll gobble those up in addition to his food. I usually try and tap the pellet on the surface of the water though so it sinks immediately, he never goes down for food. A few people on www.bettafish.com have suggested I put him in a hospital tank and treat with epsom salt in case it is an ulcer or cyst and not a tumor... even just to rule those out :/ Has anyone ever treated with epsom salt? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > That does appear to be some type of tumor based on the photos you posted. Unfortunately there is no treatment to fix a tumor and there is no medication that you could safely put into the tank containing frogs. The best thing you can do is to keep the water clean and make sure he's getting a nutritious diet. He appears to be quite large in the abdomen aside from the "bump". Could you tell us what you are feeding him and how much, how often? > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > If it is one of those things, how would I go about treating it? I also have african dwarf frogs and live plants in the tank, so preferably something that wouldn't harm them. > > -Ava > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > > > Thanks for posting the pictures, could be an ulcer or a tumor-what do > > > others think? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 11 June 2013 20:41, Ava <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > John, I created an album called "BETTA BUMP" > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ava, > > > > > > > > > > I know fish are extremely difficult to photograph well but a picture or > > > > > two of your Betta would be very helpful if possible please. > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 June 2013 23:26, Ava <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He's been in there a while, and there isn't anything I can think of > > > > that > > > > > > he could hurt himself on. It doesn't look like an external sore, it > > > > looks > > > > > > swollen, kind of like a gut, but on his side :/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had my betta get injured on aquarium ornaments. Is there > > > > anything > > > > > > > your betta could have hurt himself on in your tank? They are VERY > > > > > > > curious and will even swim into tiny spaces just to explore, and if > > > > > > > startled by something they can injure themselves while swimming > > > > into/out > > > > > > > of hiding places. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ava wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some basic info: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Housing > > > > > > > > What size is your tank? 10 Gallons > > > > > > > > What temperature is your tank? 80F > > > > > > > > Does your tank have a filter? Yes > > > > > > > > Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes > > > > > > > > Is your tank heated? Yes > > > > > > > > What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 2 African Dwarf > > > > Frogs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Food > > > > > > > > What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Betta flakes and > > > > pellets > > > > > > > > How often do you feed your betta fish? Once a day, small pinch of > > > > > > > > flakes, about 2-4 pellets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maintenance > > > > > > > > How often do you perform a water change? Every 2 weeks or so > > > > > > > > What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water > > > > > > > > change? ~50% > > > > > > > > What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a > > > > > > > > water change? Water sits in buckets overnight with Aqueon Water > > > > > > > > Conditioner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Water Parameters: > > > > > > > > Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following > > > > parameters? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammonia: 0ppm > > > > > > > > Nitrite: 0ppm > > > > > > > > Nitrate: 20ppm > > > > > > > > pH: 7.6 > > > > > > > > Hardness: N/A > > > > > > > > Alkalinity: N/A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Symptoms and Treatment > > > > > > > > How has your betta fish's appearance changed? A little bit of fin > > > > rot, > > > > > > > > but most noticeably a small lump on his left side at about the > > > > middle > > > > > > > > of his body. > > > > > > > > How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't. He's still > > > > > > > > active, responsive, still eating, still flaring, etc. > > > > > > > > When did you start noticing the symptoms? I noticed the lump today. > > > > > > > > Have you started treating your fish? Not yet. > > > > > > > > Does your fish have any history of being ill? Only with fin rot. > > > > > > > > How old is your fish (approximately)? I've had him for about a year > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed my betta has a lump on his side shortly after feeding. At > > > > > > > > first I thought it was because he just ate, but after a quick > > > > google > > > > > > > > search, saw that's not where his stomach is, and it's only on one > > > > > > > > side. It could have been there longer, just noticed it today > > > > though. > > > > > > > > Has anyone had experience with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54907	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

Hi Ava, For treating an ulcer or cyst, you could try using table salt. I don't see how Epsom salt could be used for treating these conditions. Epsom salt is generally used for treating constipation -- at the rate of about 1/4 teaspoon per gallon (or a slightly heaped teaspoon for 5 gallons). While much more than that might loosen it's digestive system up too much, it has on occasion been used in much heavier proportions in attempting to treat against Pseudomonas and Aeromonas infections (Pop Eye, Dropsey, etc.) in conjunction with Kanamycin, when there was nothing to lose. I can't say how successful it was. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54908	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Keep in mind though that most of those small schooling types of fish can be fin nippers; some more than others, mind you. I had to move some rummy nose tetras once because they were torturing our Angelfish "Arc." > > I am planning to add a shoaling or schooling species- either cherry barbs or lemon tetras- would welcome any suggestions. > > cheers > > Avin >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54909	From: Amber	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

I've had good luck keeping my Angelfish with Platy's, swordtails, guppies, and danios. The danios can be nippy but usually go after fry rather than fins, so I have never had any issues with my Angelfish and Danios getting along. I've also had Black skirt tetras, Neons/Cardinal tetras, and Bleeding Heart tetras in with my Angelfish in the past, also with minimum issues (the black skirts can be fin nippers sometimes, but my Angel's were bigger and scarier than the black skirt tetras, LOL). I really want a school of bleeding heart tetras again someday, I LOVE them. Amber On 6/14/2013 11:13 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > Keep in mind though that most of those small schooling types of fish > can be fin nippers; some more than others, mind you. I had to move > some rummy nose tetras once because they were torturing our Angelfish > "Arc." > > > > > I am planning to add a shoaling or schooling species- either cherry > barbs or lemon tetras- would welcome any suggestions. > > > > cheers > > > > Avin > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54910	From: rachell7	Date: 6/14/2013
Subject: Dawn's reef tank pictures

Dawn, those are awesome pictures! Almost makes me want one too! But I'm doing well enough with my 10 gallon at the moment! How did you get such great close ups of your fish and tank? Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54911	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update

Hi Ken, Good on you, can you add info to your advert? If so then I wonder if you should say the Commons really need a pond? Keeping that many in a single tank it would need to be around 200 gallons. I agree with you about them being fun fish-looking at the video they are so full of beans they need plenty of room to burn off all that energy! John*<o)))<* On 14 June 2013 12:36, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > I just put an ad up today... > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pet/3870017202.html > > I wish I could keep them. They are so active and happy right now. > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > Fabulous looking fish, I particularly like the one with the orange spot > > on his back-yes they are all Common Goldfish except the fancy which [I > > think] is a Ryukin. They all look so alert & happy so given the right > > conditions those Commons should grow to almost a foot long & live over 25 > > years, the fancy will grow to the size of a softball with fins! This is > why > > you need vast tanks & massive filtration for Goldfish to thrive. Any luck > > yet with the re-homing? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 11 June 2013 22:13, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > http://youtu.be/ETXUJKi_kjg > > > > > > I think they are all "common" goldfish, except the pot-bellied one?? > What > > > do you think? > > > > > > Sorry if this is a re-post. I tried to send a message and got an error > the > > > first time. > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54912	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Dawn's reef tank pictures

Thanks Rachell. :-) All I can say is patience and persistence, lol. I have good lighting over that tank (LED) which also helps. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > Dawn, those are awesome pictures! Almost makes me want one too! But I'm doing well enough with my 10 gallon at the moment! How did you get such great close ups of your fish and tank? > Rachell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54913	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: Betta with lump on his side?

Hi Ava, Just to clarify something Ray mentioned-make sure the salt you use is 100 pure salt with no additives. It may not be the case in the US but here in the UK table salt has an anti-caking agent added to make it free running & that is harmful to aquatic life. Sea Salt & Rock Salt are also fine as long as they are 100% pure. John*<o)))<* On 14 June 2013 18:10, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ava, > > For treating an ulcer or cyst, you could try using table salt. I don't see > how Epsom salt could be used for treating these conditions. Epsom salt is > generally used for treating constipation -- at the rate of about 1/4 > teaspoon per gallon (or a slightly heaped teaspoon for 5 gallons). While > much more > than that might loosen it's digestive system up too much, it has on > occasion been used in much heavier proportions in attempting to treat > against > Pseudomonas and Aeromonas infections (Pop Eye, Dropsey, etc.) in > conjunction with > Kanamycin, when there was nothing to lose. I can't say how successful it > was. > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54914	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Hi all. Well, good call ray; I researched Columnaris, and sure enough it looked and sounded like it. When all other factors are considered, and rejected, it must be disease. What it was doesn't really matter all that much now; other than for curiousities sake, as there was no time to treat, it being so fast moving. It's all gone now though; I cleaned the tank and all accessories on Monday. Today I re-did some of the silicone along the bottom seals, as some had come up; probably not necessary, but why not for my own piece of mind. I'll probably set it up next week. I read up on fishless cycling again, and I'm all for it.... but try to find ammonium chloride... So I'll probably take the sponge out of the 40 and replace it with a new one... the A.C. hob's have the chips in them for the bacteria also; and I'll put the old one in the little filter in the re-setup 10... and I'll put a platy in there; if the poor thing survives in a month, she can go down to the 40. For the 10 after it's good to go; I am leaning towards a school of one of the three kinds of dwarf corys. Some sand substrate and a big piece of driftwood. I'm also thinking of some kind of smallish floating plant, or plants, to dim the light for them a bit. Anyone have any suggestions for something that would do well with the stock l.e.d's that came with the Marineland kit? Well; I think that's all I have for now. it's exciting planning a new theme... just a shame the way it happened. I shall get on it; we miss having the tank beside the bed; it's nice to fall asleep watching them in the blue light. Al. > a pathogen. This manifestation sounds to me to be very much like Columnaris > Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54915	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Hi Al, Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever happen again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the medication of choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not often that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even if you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why would you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per day, of plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. Do you have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not aware of? Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's a very attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover for any plants beneath it. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54916	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it said never use cleaner. Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting than the led's that came with it. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever happen > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the medication of > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not often > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even if > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why would > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per day, of > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. Do you > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not aware > of? > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's a very > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover for any > plants beneath it. > > Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54917	From: Amber	Date: 6/15/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Plain ammonia, no additives at all. Sometimes you will see Surfactants added in, these are soaps, you don't want soap in your fish tank. Amber On 6/15/2013 5:03 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > > That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it > said never use cleaner. > > Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people > looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. > > So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> > > I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any > real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting > than the led's that came with it. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever > happen > > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the > medication of > > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not > often > > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even > if > > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why > would > > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per > day, of > > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. > Do you > > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not > aware > > of? > > > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's > a very > > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover > for any > > plants beneath it. > > > > Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54918	From: harry perry	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Or you can buy nitrifying bacteria at your local LFS for about $4.00. Dr. Tims isn't the only one. Then you need to add fish within 24 hours or the bacteria will die. Your test kit will tell you if it works or not. I use it all the time. Harry ________________________________ From: Amber <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:00 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update...   Plain ammonia, no additives at all. Sometimes you will see Surfactants added in, these are soaps, you don't want soap in your fish tank. Amber On 6/15/2013 5:03 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > > That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it > said never use cleaner. > > Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people > looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. > > So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> > > I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any > real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting > than the led's that came with it. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, sevenspringss@... wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever > happen > > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the > medication of > > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not > often > > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even > if > > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why > would > > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per > day, of > > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. > Do you > > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not > aware > > of? > > > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's > a very > > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover > for any > > plants beneath it. > > > > Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54919	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Al, I haven't read that link, but you shouldn't use an ammonia cleaner (ammonia containing surfactants, or sudsy ammonia); you'd need to use only plain ammonia. Not really sure if plain ammonia is categorized as a "cleaner," although I know it does a good job on windows, but it has no cleaning supplements Of course, if you don't want to wait 4 to 6 weeks for a cycle to finish, and you still prefer to save money, you could just add Tetra Safe Start (instead of Dr. Tim's One and Only). It's only half as expensive, and it's one of the few bacteria additives that works. Ray </HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54920	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Pure ammonia (which is used as a cleaner) is OK as long as it has no extra cleaning ingredients such as fragrances or surfectants. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 9:04 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update... That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it said never use cleaner. Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting than the led's that came with it. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , sevenspringss@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever happen > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the medication of > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not often > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even if > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why would > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per day, of > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. Do you > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not aware > of? > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's a very > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover for any > plants beneath it. > > Ray > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54921	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

looked for pure ammonia this past week after not finding any of the other; I was aware that it had to have no additives... no dice. goin to my not so lfs within the next couple days... I did check though... no dr. tims... I had read here before here that it is good. I'll consider one of the others; but I thought that putting the sponge from my 40 in the 10's filter... or half of it... whatever I can fit would do the same thing... and i'm sure it would be living... not sitting on a shelf in a bottle... lol or maybe I will find some pure ammonia in the big city. :-)>>> small town life has its perks and drawbacks.... Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Pure ammonia (which is used as a cleaner) is OK as long as it has no extra > cleaning ingredients such as fragrances or surfectants. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 9:04 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update... > > > > > > > That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it > said never use cleaner. > > Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people > looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. > > So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> > > I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any > real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting > than the led's that came with it. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever > happen > > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the > medication of > > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not > often > > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even > if > > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why > would > > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per > day, of > > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. > Do you > > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not > aware > > of? > > > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's > a very > > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover > for any > > plants beneath it. > > > > Ray > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54922	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Is tank-cycling ammonia available from the LFS in the States? I haven't heard of it in the UK which is surprising considering fishless cycling is becoming more & more popular. John*<o)))<* On 16 June 2013 13:26, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > looked for pure ammonia this past week after not finding any of the other; > I was aware that it had to have no additives... no dice. > goin to my not so lfs within the next couple days... I did check though... > no dr. tims... I had read here before here that it is good. > I'll consider one of the others; but I thought that putting the sponge > from my 40 in the 10's filter... or half of it... whatever I can fit would > do the same thing... and i'm sure it would be living... not sitting on a > shelf in a bottle... lol > or maybe I will find some pure ammonia in the big city. :-)>>> > small town life has its perks and drawbacks.... > > Al. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Pure ammonia (which is used as a cleaner) is OK as long as it has no > extra > > cleaning ingredients such as fragrances or surfectants. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 9:04 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it > > said never use cleaner. > > > > Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people > > looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. > > > > So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> > > > > I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any > > real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting > > than the led's that came with it. > > > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever > > happen > > > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > > > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the > > medication of > > > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > > > > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not > > often > > > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > > > > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even > > if > > > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why > > would > > > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > > > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per > > day, of > > > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. > > Do you > > > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not > > aware > > > of? > > > > > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > > > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's > > a very > > > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover > > for any > > > plants beneath it. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54923	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/16/2013
Subject: Re: Here are my goldfish...update

I actually wasn't intending on selling them all together. Maybe only 2 or 3 at a time. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Good on you, can you add info to your advert? If so then I wonder if you > should say the Commons really need a pond? Keeping that many in a single > tank it would need to be around 200 gallons. I agree with you about them > being fun fish-looking at the video they are so full of beans they need > plenty of room to burn off all that energy! > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 14 June 2013 12:36, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I just put an ad up today... > > > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pet/3870017202.html > > > > I wish I could keep them. They are so active and happy right now. > > > > -Ken > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > > > Fabulous looking fish, I particularly like the one with the orange spot > > > on his back-yes they are all Common Goldfish except the fancy which [I > > > think] is a Ryukin. They all look so alert & happy so given the right > > > conditions those Commons should grow to almost a foot long & live over 25 > > > years, the fancy will grow to the size of a softball with fins! This is > > why > > > you need vast tanks & massive filtration for Goldfish to thrive. Any luck > > > yet with the re-homing? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 11 June 2013 22:13, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > http://youtu.be/ETXUJKi_kjg > > > > > > > > I think they are all "common" goldfish, except the pot-bellied one?? > > What > > > > do you think? > > > > > > > > Sorry if this is a re-post. I tried to send a message and got an error > > the > > > > first time. > > > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54924	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

It's sold in grocery stores with cleaning supplies. Buy the no-name store brand from the bottom shelf. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 8:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update... Is tank-cycling ammonia available from the LFS in the States? I haven't heard of it in the UK which is surprising considering fishless cycling is becoming more & more popular. John*<o)))<* On 16 June 2013 13:26, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@... <mailto:al_keep_fish%40yahoo.com> > wrote: > ** > > > looked for pure ammonia this past week after not finding any of the other; > I was aware that it had to have no additives... no dice. > goin to my not so lfs within the next couple days... I did check though... > no dr. tims... I had read here before here that it is good. > I'll consider one of the others; but I thought that putting the sponge > from my 40 in the 10's filter... or half of it... whatever I can fit would > do the same thing... and i'm sure it would be living... not sitting on a > shelf in a bottle... lol > or maybe I will find some pure ammonia in the big city. :-)>>> > small town life has its perks and drawbacks.... > > Al. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > > > Pure ammonia (which is used as a cleaner) is OK as long as it has no > extra > > cleaning ingredients such as fragrances or surfectants. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 9:04 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: slaughter.... update... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's what the link in the links section here said must be used..... it > > said never use cleaner. > > > > Maybe that link should be removed if its just going to have people > > looking for stuff that is virtually impossible to find... lol. > > > > So you're saying that ammonia cleaner is ok then? cool.... > > > > http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html > > <http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html> > > > > I'll look into floating water sprite thanks. I don't think Ill put any > > real ones on the bottom, as that would probably require more lighting > > than the led's that came with it. > > > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > , > > sevenspringss@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > Well, now you know what to recognize as Columnaris if it should ever > > happen > > > again -- and I'm sure hoping it won't as it can be deadly. As it's so > > > aggressively fast in attacking a stressed fish, treated with the > > medication of > > > choice ASAP should be done at the first sign of it. > > > > > > Good move in resealing the tank when you had the chance. It's not > > often > > > that a tank in use is completely dry between fillings. > > > > > > Yes, fishless cycling is the way to go, if you have the time (or even > > if > > > you don't have the time and have to make it). AMMONIUM CHLORIDE??? Why > > would > > > you need Ammonium Chloride? Certainly not for cycling a tank! To feed > > > nitrifying bacteria, give them between 4 and 5 drops per gallon, per > > day, of > > > plain (clear) Household Ammonia Solution -- NOT Sudsey Ammonia though. > > Do you > > > have another use for Ammonium Chloride for the aquarium that I'm not > > aware > > > of? > > > > > > Dwarf Corys would be nice. Floating Water Sprite would create a lot of > > > surface cover, offering the Cory's some shade from the lighting. It's > > a very > > > attractive plant too, but watch that it doesn't create too much cover > > for any > > > plants beneath it. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54925	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

John, There's no product labeled "tank-cycling ammonia" (or anything similar) sold in local fish stores here in the States. The product is just not carried in lfs's. One needs to buy it from their local grocery store or super market. If it were offered by lfs's, and labeled as for aquarium use, it would probably be priced at least 5 times more than it can be found for at the market -- just like "aquarium" salt. Ray Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54926	From: Michelle	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Hello to my fish!

These are my fish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcybF5SwTF0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0jz8I29qTc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0kZgz-XhPY Now can someone tell me if my fish is gonna have eggs?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54927	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Good alternative to goldfish?

There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54928	From: Amber	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their environment), they also stay small-ish. What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you ideas for fish to keep. Amber On 6/17/2013 1:20 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still > have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and > seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact > that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice > coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them > because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but > don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found > either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic > looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > -Ken > > __._,_._ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54929	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Ha ha, yes that figures! Once I realised I started using regular sea or rock salt & I always advise others to do the same. John*<o)))<* On 17 June 2013 12:12, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > John, > > There's no product labeled "tank-cycling ammonia" (or anything similar) > sold in local fish stores here in the States. The product is just not > carried > in lfs's. One needs to buy it from their local grocery store or super > market. If it were offered by lfs's, and labeled as for aquarium use, it > would > probably be priced at least 5 times more than it can be found for at the > market -- just like "aquarium" salt. > > Ray > > Ray</HTML> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54930	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

I've researched the salt question myself also... and there is much disagreement as to whether it is necessary at all.... I still use some.. but have cut down.... kosher salt works as well. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Ha ha, yes that figures! Once I realised I started using regular sea or > rock salt & I always advise others to do the same. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 17 June 2013 12:12, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > John, > > > > There's no product labeled "tank-cycling ammonia" (or anything similar) > > sold in local fish stores here in the States. The product is just not > > carried > > in lfs's. One needs to buy it from their local grocery store or super > > market. If it were offered by lfs's, and labeled as for aquarium use, it > > would > > probably be priced at least 5 times more than it can be found for at the > > market -- just like "aquarium" salt. > > > > Ray > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54931	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: slaughter.... update...

Hi Al, My thinking is if you don't normally add salt as a tonic [I keep Goldfish] then if there are any issues that require salt you need to use less to get a result whereas if you routinely add it to your tank as a tonic you will need a lot more if there are any problems because your fish [& their potential parasites/ailments] will already have some sort of immunity against it. John*<o)))<* On 18 June 2013 01:28, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > I've researched the salt question myself also... and there is much > disagreement as to whether it is necessary at all.... I still use some.. > but have cut down.... kosher salt works as well. :-)>>> > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Ha ha, yes that figures! Once I realised I started using regular sea or > > rock salt & I always advise others to do the same. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 17 June 2013 12:12, <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > There's no product labeled "tank-cycling ammonia" (or anything similar) > > > sold in local fish stores here in the States. The product is just not > > > carried > > > in lfs's. One needs to buy it from their local grocery store or super > > > market. If it were offered by lfs's, and labeled as for aquarium use, > it > > > would > > > probably be priced at least 5 times more than it can be found for at > the > > > market -- just like "aquarium" salt. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > Ray</HTML> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54932	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/17/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

20 gallon would be a fine size, I think I could deal with that. People were telling me 50 gal for one goldfish, and to me, that is insane (though I can see why it's needed). But I won't make the fish suffer for my lack a facilities, so I was just thinking of some other kind of fish we might keep. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their > environment), they also stay small-ish. > What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you > ideas for fish to keep. > > Amber > > On 6/17/2013 1:20 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still > > have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and > > seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact > > that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice > > coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them > > because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but > > don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found > > either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic > > looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > > > -Ken > > > > __._,_._ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54933	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Looking at Platties and swordtails, they look like a good option for sure. One concern...some owners declared that their fish had dozens of fry (one owner said his had nearly 100). What the heck do you do if your fish has that much offspring? -ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their > environment), they also stay small-ish. > What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you > ideas for fish to keep. > > Amber > > On 6/17/2013 1:20 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still > > have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and > > seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact > > that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice > > coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them > > because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but > > don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found > > either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic > > looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > > > -Ken > > > > __._,_._ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54934	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Does fish value increase based on size?

Small goldfish are worth nothing, money-wise. But if the fish grows to, say 4 or 5 inches, is it suddenly a more desirable creature? Not getting a lot of response on my ads so far (but some). If I ended up being "stuck" with the fish for some time and they grow, do potential owners find more interest in them when they are larger? Just thinking of the potential scenarios. Tanks, -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54935	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Hey Ken. I think you would be best with small, tropical, freshwater fish. The 1 inch per gallon rule works pretty well that way, but it breaks down the larger the fish you get; I certainly would not put 2 10 inch fish in a 20 gallon. This is a hobby that has a lot that can be learned; and there's lot's of info out there. Stick to the basics, with a regular maintenance schedule; and read, read, read, and you'll do fine. :-)>>> Al. These links are a good place to start planning. http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/freshwater_compatibility_chart.php <http://www.ratemyfishtank.com/freshwater_compatibility_chart.php> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freshwater_aquarium_fish_species <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freshwater_aquarium_fish_species> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" wrote: > > 20 gallon would be a fine size, I think I could deal with that. People were telling me 50 gal for one goldfish, and to me, that is insane (though I can see why it's needed). But I won't make the fish suffer for my lack a facilities, so I was just thinking of some other kind of fish we might keep. > > -Ken > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber arberglund@ wrote: > > > > Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their > > environment), they also stay small-ish. > > What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you > > ideas for fish to keep. > > > > Amber > > > > On 6/17/2013 1:20 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > > > > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still > > > have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and > > > seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact > > > that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice > > > coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them > > > because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > > > > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but > > > don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > > > > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found > > > either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic > > > looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > __._,_._ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54936	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hey Faisal. 40 gallon, 151 litre. freshwater. 1 angelfish 4 platys 5 matae corys 3 peppered corys 3 ghost shrimp 1 mystery snail There are pics' of it in the photo section. The stand, I designed and built myself. If I wasn't in a hurry, I would have made it look nicer with some routering...next time. It's very sturdy though. 10 gallon in the works... long story. Al. > --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > details. > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > Size of Fish = > > > > Regards, > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54937	From: Amber	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Most LFS (local fish stores) will buy back or offer you a trade for your fish if you end up over populated. If they won't buy them or trade food for them they will usually at least take them off your hands. I've given my LFS giant catfish that outgrew my 125 gallon tank, that they then sold to someone else. I didn't make any money off the transaction but they gave me a free mystery snail. I've also sold them my baby pleco's when they get a little out of control with babies. They don't give me much for them (maybe a quarter per fish, .50 cents at most). You might check with your LFS when you are buying fish, that way you will know ahead of time if they will at least take the babies off your hands for you. Amber On 6/18/2013 1:58 AM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > Looking at Platties and swordtails, they look like a good option for sure. > > One concern...some owners declared that their fish had dozens of fry > (one owner said his had nearly 100). What the heck do you do if your > fish has that much offspring? > > -ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > > Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their > > environment), they also stay small-ish. > > What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you > > ideas for fish to keep. > > > > Amber > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54938	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

A lot of fish eat their young, and/or the young of other types of fish in the tank, if they are not taken out and put in a fry tank. Our angel does a good job of eating the platy fry. The corys eat their own eggs. I don't let it bother me; big fish eat small fish..... the fish food you give them is largely made from... you guessed it, fish. Or like Amber said... just get rid of them before you get too attached; and need a bigger tank. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Most LFS (local fish stores) will buy back or offer you a trade for your > fish if you end up over populated. If they won't buy them or trade food > for them they will usually at least take them off your hands. I've given > my LFS giant catfish that outgrew my 125 gallon tank, that they then > sold to someone else. I didn't make any money off the transaction but > they gave me a free mystery snail. I've also sold them my baby pleco's > when they get a little out of control with babies. They don't give me > much for them (maybe a quarter per fish, .50 cents at most). > You might check with your LFS when you are buying fish, that way you > will know ahead of time if they will at least take the babies off your > hands for you. > > Amber > > On 6/18/2013 1:58 AM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > > > Looking at Platties and swordtails, they look like a good option for sure. > > > > One concern...some owners declared that their fish had dozens of fry > > (one owner said his had nearly 100). What the heck do you do if your > > fish has that much offspring? > > > > -ken > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Amber <arberglund@> wrote: > > > > > > Platy's and Swordtails are very lively and interactive fish (with their > > > environment), they also stay small-ish. > > > What size of a tank are you working with? This will help us give you > > > ideas for fish to keep. > > > > > > Amber > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54939	From: Ava	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Goldfish Swim Bladder Issues

I have 3 goldfish. One is a hybrid, and recently has been having swim bladder issues every day. He never used to have any issues, but now it's every day after I feed them. He'll be fine, eat the food, and then about 15 minutes later be stuck at the surface. He swims down and if he stops moving he just floats back to the top. He struggles like this all day until (I'm assuming) he digests or poops and then he's fine again. My other two goldfish are fine, though they aren't hybrid that I know of so I think it may be an anatomical issue. What I'm currently feeding: Omega One Goldfish Pellets--Small for my little hybrid that's having the issues, and medium for my bigger guys (the one having the issue couldn't fit the medium one in his mouth if he tried) and Marineland Color-Enhancing Goldfish Flakes. These are more of a 'solid' flake, instead of the really delicate ones I used to use. I tried soaking the food in a cup of water so it expands BEFORE I put it in the tank, though I'm not seeing any improvement. Also, a skinned pea is also still too big for my little guy to eat it :/ Has anyone had this issue before? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54940	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Are you looking for just a single species of fish or a mixture for your tank? The reason I ask is because you seem drawn to the personality of the goldfish most of all, and there is another small fish I can think of with such a bug personality, but it would have to be a species only tank because they are aggressive... dwarf puffers. The tank would also have to be well decorated to keep more than one long term and you would need to be able to provide ram's horn snails for food. Other options aside from the dwarf puffers would be smaller species of mollys (such as sphenops or gold dust mollys), platys, guppies (all of which are live bearing, so you'd want to stick with all males to avoid breeding), there are also small species of killifish (only very peaceful tank mates), dwarf gourami (somewhat territorial, so semi aggressive tank mates), zebra or longfin danios, choprae danios, emerald rasboras, any of the smaller tetras, and the list goes on. One of my favorite tetras are the green fire tetras, lots of color while still small and peaceful. What's most important is that you stick to fish that will remain small (under 3 inches) and don't put too many into the tank. You aren't likely going to get the same personality traits out of most of the smaller fish as what you're seeing in the goldfish, though, so please prepare yourself for that. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > -Ken >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54941	From: sevenspringss	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish Swim Bladder Issues

Ava, Your hybrid goldfish may not have as much of a swim bladder problem as much as it has a problem with gulping air into it's digestive system when it eats. While it may not be very easy to train it to eat mid-water since it's gotten used to eating at the surface, you might try feeding him sinking pellets (and no floating flake food). You could also feed it blanch veggies -- like butternut squash, etc. Veggies should sink after blanching them, but if not, get a veggie clip to hold them down. Ray</HTML>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54942	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Hello to my fish!

Hi Michelle, Thanks for posting the videos of your fish, I don't think any of them are pregnant, rather the Fancy Goldfish shape is typically squat & rounded, especially Pearlscales. John*<o)))<* On 17 June 2013 21:09, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > ** > > > These are my fish > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcybF5SwTF0 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0jz8I29qTc > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0kZgz-XhPY > > Now can someone tell me if my fish is gonna have eggs? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54943	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?

Hi Ken, I noticed on your previous post with the video link that you mentioned selling your fish, you are quite right that in monetary terms young regular Goldfish are virtually worthless but the value does increase with size & age although not by anything anywhere near worth making a business out of. However the tragedy of it is probably 99% of these lovely creatures never get to realise their full potential because of this cheap & plentiful supply so people continue to treat them as commodities with scant regard for their well being. I think the only way that you would be likely to find a good home for your fish would be to offer them free of charge with the proviso that they are moving to a pond or the very least a tank of at least 100 gallons. I also get the feeling that you would very much like to keep them because of their outgoing personalities & I can quite understand. Looking at your video I have rarely seen a happier or more inquisitive bunch of Goldies! Just for argument's sake, how much available free space do you have at home bearing in mind that a long, shallow tank is infinitely better for Goldfish than a short tall tank that takes up less room? John*<o)))<* On 18 June 2013 11:03, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Small goldfish are worth nothing, money-wise. But if the fish grows to, > say 4 or 5 inches, is it suddenly a more desirable creature? > > Not getting a lot of response on my ads so far (but some). If I ended up > being "stuck" with the fish for some time and they grow, do potential > owners find more interest in them when they are larger? > > Just thinking of the potential scenarios. > > Tanks, > -Ken > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54944	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Good alternative to goldfish?

Yes, single species is fine with me, although I'm not against a mixed tank (as long as there is no fighting). I do like the personality of the goldfish. If there were some other fish that just swam back and forth, doing the same thing all day, that would be rather boring no matter how pretty they are. Thanks for the tips, Dawn. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Are you looking for just a single species of fish or a mixture for your tank? The reason I ask is because you seem drawn to the personality of the goldfish most of all, and there is another small fish I can think of with such a bug personality, but it would have to be a species only tank because they are aggressive... dwarf puffers. The tank would also have to be well decorated to keep more than one long term and you would need to be able to provide ram's horn snails for food. > > Other options aside from the dwarf puffers would be smaller species of mollys (such as sphenops or gold dust mollys), platys, guppies (all of which are live bearing, so you'd want to stick with all males to avoid breeding), there are also small species of killifish (only very peaceful tank mates), dwarf gourami (somewhat territorial, so semi aggressive tank mates), zebra or longfin danios, choprae danios, emerald rasboras, any of the smaller tetras, and the list goes on. One of my favorite tetras are the green fire tetras, lots of color while still small and peaceful. > > What's most important is that you stick to fish that will remain small (under 3 inches) and don't put too many into the tank. You aren't likely going to get the same personality traits out of most of the smaller fish as what you're seeing in the goldfish, though, so please prepare yourself for that. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > There is one thing I've learned about these goldfish I currently still have: I like them. They have a lot of energy and like to explore and seem to have attention to me when I'm around. I also like the fact that they just look like a very standard common fish, but with nice coloring. However, i'm currently looking for new homes for them because I cannot house 50 gallon and larger tanks. > > > > Are there other fish types that have a good lively personality but don't require a humongous tank for a single fish? > > > > I was looking at some on Petsmart website, but many of them, I found either unattractive (Oscars and ciclids), too frufru and exotic looking for me (Bettas), or not for beginners. > > > > -Ken > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54945	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?

Hi John, Well, I definitely don't want to make a business out of these goldfish. I was just thinking that if I can't get any takers, then maybe I would keep them long enough until their supposed value increased, then I could let them go to someone who really did want them. But I see your point. I currently have these fish (with photos and video) listed on Craigslist Pet Community forum since Friday, as free, and two at a time. I live in the Bay Area (millions of people here), so there should be a good number of fish lovers here. I did get two responses, but the first guy was in a rush to get the fish and I couldn't accomodate him because I was out and about all weekend. He said if he couldn't get them by Sunday, then he would pass, so he passed. Then another lady has been asking me if I can't hold on to them, then she would take them... "They don't need that much room. They are goldfish. 50 gallons for one goldfish, LORD! Get a 25-30 gallon tank and as I said filter system and air pump. They will be fine. Give them houses, fake or real grass, those hokey toys that blow the bubbles..... they will be fine. They don't need a heater. They will not grow really. It's not like they are going to turn from a one ounce fish into a 20 ounce one. The goldfish I had for over nine years never got any bigger." So right away, I felt like these fish would just get put in a bad situation ("they are goldfish, they will not grow"), so I have NOT responded. I will give it a few more weeks, and if worse comes to worse, then I will take them to any pet shop that will take them. Granted, my tank is way overstocked, but at least for now, I am making water changes everyday, checking their filter, gravel vacuuming, and doing all the tests. The water is good and the fish seem happy, if not obviously overcrowded. Not optimal conditions for sure, but then again, we didn't really ask for these fish. I probably should have refused the fish right away, but didn't know what was involved. At least I feel right about how they are being treated, given the circumstances. If I were to estimate how much room I could afford, I could probably do a 5' long x 1.5' wide tank. I have a little wall that we are opening up soon because of furniture re-arrangement. The only thing that kinda bothers me is that the landlord supposedly doesn't allow pets, and we have a wood floor, so if there was a leak or the tank broke, I'd be in deep shit. A 5 gallon tank wouldn't be so bad, but a 50 or 100 gallon tank would be a true disaster. That's also kinda why I don't feel too good about keeping the fish long-term. I suppose I could talk to the landlord about it. Maybe he would make an exception (but that's a longshot). I'm also thinking about moving some time, but that's another story. Decisions, decisions! -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > I noticed on your previous post with the video link that you mentioned > selling your fish, you are quite right that in monetary terms young regular > Goldfish are virtually worthless but the value does increase with size & > age although not by anything anywhere near worth making a business out of. > However the tragedy of it is probably 99% of these lovely creatures never > get to realise their full potential because of this cheap & plentiful > supply so people continue to treat them as commodities with scant regard > for their well being. > > I think the only way that you would be likely to find a good home for your > fish would be to offer them free of charge with the proviso that they are > moving to a pond or the very least a tank of at least 100 gallons. I also > get the feeling that you would very much like to keep them because of their > outgoing personalities & I can quite understand. Looking at your video I > have rarely seen a happier or more inquisitive bunch of Goldies! > > Just for argument's sake, how much available free space do you have at home > bearing in mind that a long, shallow tank is infinitely better for Goldfish > than a short tall tank that takes up less room? > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > On 18 June 2013 11:03, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Small goldfish are worth nothing, money-wise. But if the fish grows to, > > say 4 or 5 inches, is it suddenly a more desirable creature? > > > > Not getting a lot of response on my ads so far (but some). If I ended up > > being "stuck" with the fish for some time and they grow, do potential > > owners find more interest in them when they are larger? > > > > Just thinking of the potential scenarios. > > > > Tanks, > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54946	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/18/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi, In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly Piranhas having size of 2" - 3" inches. 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. Regards, Faisal Ashraf On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...>wrote: > Hello, > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > details. > > Size of Aquarium = > Type of Fish & Quantity = > Size of Fish = > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54947	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?

Is it worth selling goldies on ebay? -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > Hi John, > > Well, I definitely don't want to make a business out of these goldfish. I was just thinking that if I can't get any takers, then maybe I would keep them long enough until their supposed value increased, then I could let them go to someone who really did want them. But I see your point. > > I currently have these fish (with photos and video) listed on Craigslist Pet Community forum since Friday, as free, and two at a time. I live in the Bay Area (millions of people here), so there should be a good number of fish lovers here. I did get two responses, but the first guy was in a rush to get the fish and I couldn't accomodate him because I was out and about all weekend. He said if he couldn't get them by Sunday, then he would pass, so he passed. Then another lady has been asking me if I can't hold on to them, then she would take them... > > "They don't need that much room. They are goldfish. 50 gallons for one goldfish, LORD! Get a 25-30 gallon tank and as I said filter system and air pump. They will be fine. Give them houses, fake or real grass, those hokey toys that blow the bubbles..... they will be fine. They don't need a heater. They will not grow really. It's not like they are going to turn from a one ounce fish into a 20 ounce one. The goldfish I had for over nine years never got any bigger." > > So right away, I felt like these fish would just get put in a bad situation ("they are goldfish, they will not grow"), so I have NOT responded. I will give it a few more weeks, and if worse comes to worse, then I will take them to any pet shop that will take them. > > Granted, my tank is way overstocked, but at least for now, I am making water changes everyday, checking their filter, gravel vacuuming, and doing all the tests. The water is good and the fish seem happy, if not obviously overcrowded. Not optimal conditions for sure, but then again, we didn't really ask for these fish. I probably should have refused the fish right away, but didn't know what was involved. At least I feel right about how they are being treated, given the circumstances. > > If I were to estimate how much room I could afford, I could probably do a 5' long x 1.5' wide tank. I have a little wall that we are opening up soon because of furniture re-arrangement. The only thing that kinda bothers me is that the landlord supposedly doesn't allow pets, and we have a wood floor, so if there was a leak or the tank broke, I'd be in deep shit. A 5 gallon tank wouldn't be so bad, but a 50 or 100 gallon tank would be a true disaster. That's also kinda why I don't feel too good about keeping the fish long-term. I suppose I could talk to the landlord about it. Maybe he would make an exception (but that's a longshot). I'm also thinking about moving some time, but that's another story. > > Decisions, decisions! > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > I noticed on your previous post with the video link that you mentioned > > selling your fish, you are quite right that in monetary terms young regular > > Goldfish are virtually worthless but the value does increase with size & > > age although not by anything anywhere near worth making a business out of. > > However the tragedy of it is probably 99% of these lovely creatures never > > get to realise their full potential because of this cheap & plentiful > > supply so people continue to treat them as commodities with scant regard > > for their well being. > > > > I think the only way that you would be likely to find a good home for your > > fish would be to offer them free of charge with the proviso that they are > > moving to a pond or the very least a tank of at least 100 gallons. I also > > get the feeling that you would very much like to keep them because of their > > outgoing personalities & I can quite understand. Looking at your video I > > have rarely seen a happier or more inquisitive bunch of Goldies! > > > > Just for argument's sake, how much available free space do you have at home > > bearing in mind that a long, shallow tank is infinitely better for Goldfish > > than a short tall tank that takes up less room? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > On 18 June 2013 11:03, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Small goldfish are worth nothing, money-wise. But if the fish grows to, > > > say 4 or 5 inches, is it suddenly a more desirable creature? > > > > > > Not getting a lot of response on my ads so far (but some). If I ended up > > > being "stuck" with the fish for some time and they grow, do potential > > > owners find more interest in them when they are larger? > > > > > > Just thinking of the potential scenarios. > > > > > > Tanks, > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54948	From: Ray	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hello Faisal, As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part of what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I enjoy caring for and watching: 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras armatulus (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - 5 ". 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni "Small-Spot" 6" - 8 ". 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 1/2", F - 4". 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he grows (they get to at least 24" or so). Regards, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > Hi, > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly Piranhas > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > Regards, > Faisal Ashraf > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...>wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > details. > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > Size of Fish = > > > > Regards, > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54949	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/19/2013
Subject: Re: Does fish value increase based on size?

Hi Ken, It's a pity that you are not keeping these fish because you seem to have a real feel for them even though you are just starting out in the hobby-they would do well with you! yes, you are fine doing the daily maintenence regime on their tank because all those water changes will be simulating a much larger body of water due to the dilution effect but obviously as they grow the effects of this dilution will become less & less as the fish grow & displace more of the available tank water. For argument's sake your available space for a theoretical tank of 5 feet x 1.5 feet x [for example another 1.5 feet of depth] & allowing for decor, gravel etc would give you a tank of approximately 70 US gallons which with a strict maintenence regime would not be ideal but certainly with a strict maintenece regime could support them for up to a couple of years. Bear in mind also that a taller tank will not take up any more floor area & will dramatically increase your water volume. Your building regulations regarding no pets, fish are probably exempt from that because it is aimed at loose pets such as cats & dogs that make noise & smells that could upset other tenants. Fish do neither & are contianed in convenient rectangular pieces of 'furniture'. There shouldn't really be any leaks or other problems, I live in a flat with a wooden floor-my tank is a one piece acrylic so no seals to burst. The location of the tank is important as it needs to be against a load-bearing wall, that is one that goes down to the foundations & supports under-floor joists. The tank needs ot be situated across as many joists as possible to spread the weight, my tank weighs around half a ton yet it is on a running base rather than legs & supported by 6 joists so the actual weight on each point is minimal. There is also the allowance of 'live load' on floors & in my case it is almost 2.5 tons so I am well within safety limits, my tank is 100 UK gallons which I think is around 120 US gallons. There is a most excellent page on this subject here: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html John*<o)))<* On 19 June 2013 03:00, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Well, I definitely don't want to make a business out of these goldfish. I > was just thinking that if I can't get any takers, then maybe I would keep > them long enough until their supposed value increased, then I could let > them go to someone who really did want them. But I see your point. > > I currently have these fish (with photos and video) listed on Craigslist > Pet Community forum since Friday, as free, and two at a time. I live in the > Bay Area (millions of people here), so there should be a good number of > fish lovers here. I did get two responses, but the first guy was in a rush > to get the fish and I couldn't accomodate him because I was out and about > all weekend. He said if he couldn't get them by Sunday, then he would pass, > so he passed. Then another lady has been asking me if I can't hold on to > them, then she would take them... > > "They don't need that much room. They are goldfish. 50 gallons for one > goldfish, LORD! Get a 25-30 gallon tank and as I said filter system and air > pump. They will be fine. Give them houses, fake or real grass, those hokey > toys that blow the bubbles..... they will be fine. They don't need a > heater. They will not grow really. It's not like they are going to turn > from a one ounce fish into a 20 ounce one. The goldfish I had for over nine > years never got any bigger." > > So right away, I felt like these fish would just get put in a bad > situation ("they are goldfish, they will not grow"), so I have NOT > responded. I will give it a few more weeks, and if worse comes to worse, > then I will take them to any pet shop that will take them. > > Granted, my tank is way overstocked, but at least for now, I am making > water changes everyday, checking their filter, gravel vacuuming, and doing > all the tests. The water is good and the fish seem happy, if not obviously > overcrowded. Not optimal conditions for sure, but then again, we didn't > really ask for these fish. I probably should have refused the fish right > away, but didn't know what was involved. At least I feel right about how > they are being treated, given the circumstances. > > If I were to estimate how much room I could afford, I could probably do a > 5' long x 1.5' wide tank. I have a little wall that we are opening up soon > because of furniture re-arrangement. The only thing that kinda bothers me > is that the landlord supposedly doesn't allow pets, and we have a wood > floor, so if there was a leak or the tank broke, I'd be in deep shit. A 5 > gallon tank wouldn't be so bad, but a 50 or 100 gallon tank would be a true > disaster. That's also kinda why I don't feel too good about keeping the > fish long-term. I suppose I could talk to the landlord about it. Maybe he > would make an exception (but that's a longshot). I'm also thinking about > moving some time, but that's another story. > > Decisions, decisions! > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > I noticed on your previous post with the video link that you mentioned > > selling your fish, you are quite right that in monetary terms young > regular > > Goldfish are virtually worthless but the value does increase with size & > > age although not by anything anywhere near worth making a business out > of. > > However the tragedy of it is probably 99% of these lovely creatures never > > get to realise their full potential because of this cheap & plentiful > > supply so people continue to treat them as commodities with scant regard > > for their well being. > > > > I think the only way that you would be likely to find a good home for > your > > fish would be to offer them free of charge with the proviso that they are > > moving to a pond or the very least a tank of at least 100 gallons. I also > > get the feeling that you would very much like to keep them because of > their > > outgoing personalities & I can quite understand. Looking at your video I > > have rarely seen a happier or more inquisitive bunch of Goldies! > > > > Just for argument's sake, how much available free space do you have at > home > > bearing in mind that a long, shallow tank is infinitely better for > Goldfish > > than a short tall tank that takes up less room? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > On 18 June 2013 11:03, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Small goldfish are worth nothing, money-wise. But if the fish grows to, > > > say 4 or 5 inches, is it suddenly a more desirable creature? > > > > > > Not getting a lot of response on my ads so far (but some). If I ended > up > > > being "stuck" with the fish for some time and they grow, do potential > > > owners find more interest in them when they are larger? > > > > > > Just thinking of the potential scenarios. > > > > > > Tanks, > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54950	From: cliffl	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: cardinal tetras

Was given 4 cardinal tetras and soon after acclimatizing put them in a 46L tank with shrimps and do not bother them, after putting them in the smallest one lost its red colouring and swims in centre of tank and shows aggression towards the other three, chasing them away if they go into the centre of tank, anyone have any idea why is behaves like it does, is it a male and other 3 female or what. Cliff.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54951	From: joe t	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hey, Ray: From the size of those babies we could have a nice fish fry!! ;0) joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hello Faisal, > > As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part of what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I enjoy caring for and watching: > > 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras armatulus (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". > > 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". > > 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - 5 ". > > 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". > > 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". > > 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". > > 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni "Small-Spot" 6" - 8 ". > > 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 1/2", F - 4". > > 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish > > 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish > > 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish > > 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish > > Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he grows (they get to at least 24" or so). > > Regards, > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly Piranhas > > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > > > Regards, > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@>wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > > details. > > > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > > Size of Fish = > > > > > > Regards, > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54952	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: cardinal tetras

Or the other way around. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "cliffl" <cliff.lambton@...> wrote: > > Was given 4 cardinal tetras and soon after acclimatizing put them in a 46L tank with shrimps and do not bother them, after putting them in the smallest one lost its red colouring and swims in centre of tank and shows aggression towards the other three, chasing them away if they go into the centre of tank, anyone have any idea why is behaves like it does, is it a male and other 3 female or what. Cliff. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54953	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

OK, this is a little complicated, but... For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54954	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi Ray, Wow, Now you are the winner with having huge number of tanks and fishes :). Definitely I will move my Giant Gourami into some other tank or replace with some other fish very soon. Regards, Faisal On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > Hello Faisal, > > As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd > add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part of > what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I enjoy > caring for and watching: > > 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus > octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras armatulus > (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". > > 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis > (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". > > 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi > Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - 5 > ". > > 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi > Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". > > 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 > 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". > > 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei > (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". > > 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni "Small-Spot" > 6" - 8 ". > > 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 > 1/2", F - 4". > > 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish > > 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish > > 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish > > 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish > > Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 > gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you > know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he > grows (they get to at least 24" or so). > > Regards, > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly Piranhas > > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > > > Regards, > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@ > ...>wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > > details. > > > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > > Size of Fish = > > > > > > Regards, > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54955	From: Ray	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi Joe, Yeah, you're probably referring to those two 14" "babies." There are many larger tropical fish they eat in South America -- including Discus and Piranha. Pacu is another favorite table fish. In Africa, many of the larger Rift Lake Cichlids are used as food, and they don't really get hugh. Any Lake Malawi Cichlid is caught and kept as food fish, provided they're large enough to provide a meal; there are no particular fish that are favored more than others -- just that the larger specimens are the ones kept for food -- and many food-type Mbuna don't get more than 6" to 8" max. Most actually get larger in captivity, when they're well taken care of, than they do in the wild. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Hey, Ray: > From the size of those babies we could have a nice fish fry!! ;0) > > joe t > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hello Faisal, > > > > As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part of what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I enjoy caring for and watching: > > > > 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras armatulus (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". > > > > 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". > > > > 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - 5 ". > > > > 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". > > > > 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". > > > > 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". > > > > 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni "Small-Spot" 6" - 8 ". > > > > 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 1/2", F - 4". > > > > 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish > > > > 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish > > > > 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he grows (they get to at least 24" or so). > > > > Regards, > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > > > > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly Piranhas > > > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > > > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@>wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > > > details. > > > > > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > > > Size of Fish = > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54956	From: Amber	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Yes throwing away the charcoal caused your filter to have to re-grow it's beneficial nitrifying bacteria. You'll need to watch the ammonia and do regular water changes to keep the ammonia from getting toxic. Careful adding anything that is supposed to do something miraculous (such as remove algae and ammonia) sometimes these products can be harmful to your tank inhabitants and can even kill them. I don't know anything about ammo chips personally, I have never used them. Amber On 6/20/2013 3:54 PM, megablasto2000 wrote: > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has > charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so > I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or > so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used > it and they seem to like it. > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called > Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in > overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't > really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss > filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 > times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter > bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, > previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about > .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because > of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate > the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > -Ken > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54957	From: Ray	Date: 6/20/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ken, Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). Best wishes, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > -Ken >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54958	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ray, I think there ha been a misundertanding. You said... "...since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief." and also... "While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl...you were in effect stunting these fish..." I think you may have misread my message from the other day. That information about the goldfish bowl and 9 years was quoted because that was someone else (not me), a woman who emailed me after seeing my ad on Craigslist. She was telling me that she felt it was overkill to have a big tank and all that for one fish, and that she just used a fish bowl, etc., etc. I was jut quoting her to let you guys know what kind of responses I was getting to my ad. I've never owned a fish before!!! Believe me, I have no intention to harm or stunt these fish. If I can't give them a good home per the advice on this forum, I will take them to someone who can. Two of the 6 fish received a new home today, and the 4 remaining already seem happier and more upbeat, particularly one of them. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > Best wishes, > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > -Ken > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54959	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Tanks for the advice, Ray. I guess I will take the Ammo-chips out of the filter bag, and look for the glass bead things that bacteria grow on (you guys mentioned a few days ago). So far, I "cleaned" the filter bag by gently shaking it in gravel vac waste water in a bucket (I let the waste water sit first for a little while, so the waste that was in the water settled to the bottom first). Would it be fine instead to just clean the bag in clean conditioned tap water, instead of used waste water? Am I rendering the nitrobacters by shaking the fish waste loose off the bag or are the nitrobacters actually stuck to the bag material? Tanks, -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > Best wishes, > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > -Ken > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54960	From: harry perry	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

I think Ray will agree. We have both been keeping fish for over 50 years. You and your fish will be better off to keep the chemicals out of your tank. Not only is it cheaper, it simple isn't necessary. Partial water changes once a week, feed a quality fish food sparingly, don't overcrowd your tank. Adherence to the basics will keep you out of trouble. Harry ________________________________ From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:55 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?   Tanks for the advice, Ray. I guess I will take the Ammo-chips out of the filter bag, and look for the glass bead things that bacteria grow on (you guys mentioned a few days ago). So far, I "cleaned" the filter bag by gently shaking it in gravel vac waste water in a bucket (I let the waste water sit first for a little while, so the waste that was in the water settled to the bottom first). Would it be fine instead to just clean the bag in clean conditioned tap water, instead of used waste water? Am I rendering the nitrobacters by shaking the fish waste loose off the bag or are the nitrobacters actually stuck to the bag material? Tanks, -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > Best wishes, > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > -Ken > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54961	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi Ray, Yes, very impressed with your collection! I had to Google several of the names as I didn't recognise them. The Blue Dolphins are beautiful fish, I've never seen them before. John*<o)))< * On 21 June 2013 04:22, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > > Wow, Now you are the winner with having huge number of tanks and fishes :). > > Definitely I will move my Giant Gourami into some other tank or replace > with some other fish very soon. > > Regards, > Faisal > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > Hello Faisal, > > > > As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd > > add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part > of > > what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I > enjoy > > caring for and watching: > > > > 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus > > octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras > armatulus > > (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". > > > > 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis > > (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". > > > > 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi > > Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - > 5 > > ". > > > > 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi > > Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". > > > > 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 > > 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". > > > > 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei > > (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". > > > > 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni > "Small-Spot" > > 6" - 8 ". > > > > 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 > > 1/2", F - 4". > > > > 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish > > > > 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish > > > > 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 > > gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you > > know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he > > grows (they get to at least 24" or so). > > > > Regards, > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > > > > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly > Piranhas > > > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > > > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@ > > ...>wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > > > details. > > > > > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > > > Size of Fish = > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54962	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

While reading this thread I did think that Ray had taken the quote from Ken out of context, easy enough to do when replying online! Ken, whatever filter media you use then it will, in time grow a colony of beneficial bacteria [good bugs] that will keep your tank's water safe for your fish. The better materials to use are inert ones like ceramic chips, beads or polyester foams, I actually use regular nylon pot scrubbers [over 160 of them!] because they are virtually indestructible, inert, cheap & hold a huge amount of good bugs plus they are very easy to clean. Regarding your query about rinsing dirty filter media in conditioned, clean water I don't know but I have never done it as I always rinse mine in old tank water-this is purely to get rid of any loose gunk & debris so that the filter material whatever it is can function at it's full potential. If for example a sponge is clogged up then the water will run around or over it & not get processes properly. Once the debris has been removed from the sponge then the water can once again flow freely through it & get the maximum benefit of the process. Finally I agree with everyone about not adding anything to your water unless you absolutely have to, all the claims & promises made by the various manufacturer's about their miracle products are mostly untrue-all they want is your money. Ordinarily all you need to add to your water is conditioner to make it safe. Ray-you mentioned adding water conditioner in the event of the tank having a high ammonia reading. surely all Ken needs to do is more partial water changes to further dilute any toxins? BTW well done on re-homing a couple of your fish! John*<o)))<* On 21 June 2013 11:03, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > I think Ray will agree. We have both been keeping fish for over 50 years. > > You and your fish will be better off to keep the chemicals out of your > tank. > > Not only is it cheaper, it simple isn't necessary. > > Partial water changes once a week, feed a quality fish food sparingly, > don't overcrowd your tank. > > Adherence to the basics will keep you out of trouble. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:55 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter? > > > � > Tanks for the advice, Ray. > > I guess I will take the Ammo-chips out of the filter bag, and look for the > glass bead things that bacteria grow on (you guys mentioned a few days ago). > > So far, I "cleaned" the filter bag by gently shaking it in gravel vac > waste water in a bucket (I let the waste water sit first for a little > while, so the waste that was in the water settled to the bottom first). > Would it be fine instead to just clean the bag in clean conditioned tap > water, instead of used waste water? Am I rendering the nitrobacters by > shaking the fish waste loose off the bag or are the nitrobacters actually > stuck to the bag material? > > Tanks, > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle > from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of > the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow > and multiply on. > > > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and > with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and > on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking > a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as > a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months > if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it > will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no > build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy > population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on > top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their > populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out > the window. > > > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in > the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution > overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of > ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing > salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia > it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if > you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever > reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted > aquarium water. > > > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other > aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you > don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" > the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original > belief. > > > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where > they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a > pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the > opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 > years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these > fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect > stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good > intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they > really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may > probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the > 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it > really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if > allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or > larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the > tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just > as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to > provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in > several years. > > > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the > greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach > their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I > realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since > you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what > we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are > not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the > knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up > to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. > If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come > from? > > > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other > requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and > giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of > having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. > Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow > normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is > a form of stress. > > > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in > short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize > you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's > just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the > good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your > care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn > and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium > ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free > water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no > salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good > sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there > are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's > web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The > goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not > have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in > fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if > eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the > fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) > of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the > possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly > beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, > without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon > in the water, for at least 3 > weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses > but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it > starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, > meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water > conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. > Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and > occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be > converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has > charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I > took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I > figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used > it and they seem to like it. > > > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called > Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in > overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really > know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag > was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already > using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it > seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with > the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer > liquid. > > > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because > of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the > ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54963	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ken, Yes, it appears I did in fact misunderstand your post. It was my understanding (obviously now, wrong) that it was you stating these things in one of your messages. I'm glad to now see that you were quoting someone else and that you're much more aware of these fish's needs. As I see it, in this relatively small volume of water you have these goldfish in, you're doing a great job so far in maintaining them. Try not to get too attached to them; they can be like puppies and then you'd never want to give them away < g >. Don't forget about using Prime at the first sign of increased ammonia after a partial water change (and of course to treat the new water of the PWC). The detoxifying effects of Prime lasts two days, but then, you're probably already doing another PWC by that time. You may still get an ammonia reading after using Prime, but it will be all ammonium (not ammonia). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I think there ha been a misundertanding. > > You said... > > "...since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief." > > and also... > > "While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl...you were in effect stunting these fish..." > > I think you may have misread my message from the other day. That information about the goldfish bowl and 9 years was quoted because that was someone else (not me), a woman who emailed me after seeing my ad on Craigslist. She was telling me that she felt it was overkill to have a big tank and all that for one fish, and that she just used a fish bowl, etc., etc. I was jut quoting her to let you guys know what kind of responses I was getting to my ad. I've never owned a fish before!!! > > Believe me, I have no intention to harm or stunt these fish. If I can't give them a good home per the advice on this forum, I will take them to someone who can. Two of the 6 fish received a new home today, and the 4 remaining already seem happier and more upbeat, particularly one of them. > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. > > > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. > > > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. > > > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. > > > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. > > > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? > > > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. > > > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54964	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ken, If you feel that the waste water still has too much suspended organic waste particles after letting it settle, to allow for good cleaning of the filter bag, then yes you can use a bucket of clean conditioned tap water. The water used for cleaning the filter media does not need to contain bacteria, it just needs to be free of toxic chlorine and/or chloramine. I clean my filter media in clean (room temperature well water which I draw from my private well -- the same water that I use for refilling the fish tanks during PWC's; it has no chlorine or chlorine-ammonia additives. Be sure the water is at room temperature and not recently drawn from the tap at 50 o (which would adversely affect the nitrobacters). The nitrobacters are on all surfaces inside of the aquarium, including on fish waste and other gunk (like decaying plant matter, food, etc.) as well as on the actual bag material. This is one more reason though, not to allow too much of a build up of gunk on the bag which would displace much of the nitrobacters from the underlying bag material (if the allowed build up of gunk accumulates too heavily on top of the material) to a location where they're in better contact with the well-oxygenated water passing through the filter -- that location then being on top of the gunk if a build up is preventing much water from reaching the bag material itself. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > Tanks for the advice, Ray. > > I guess I will take the Ammo-chips out of the filter bag, and look for the glass bead things that bacteria grow on (you guys mentioned a few days ago). > > So far, I "cleaned" the filter bag by gently shaking it in gravel vac waste water in a bucket (I let the waste water sit first for a little while, so the waste that was in the water settled to the bottom first). Would it be fine instead to just clean the bag in clean conditioned tap water, instead of used waste water? Am I rendering the nitrobacters by shaking the fish waste loose off the bag or are the nitrobacters actually stuck to the bag material? > > Tanks, > -Ken > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ken, > > > > Nothing complicated there. For starters, Ammo-Chips will prevent a cycle from starting -- when working properly -- as it will be absorbing all of the ammonia, leaving nothing as food for the nitrifying bacteria to grow and multiply on. > > > > Yes, your ammonia went up because you changed out the filter bag -- and with it, removed most of the nitrifying bacteria that was colonizing in and on it. The filter media is where most of the nitrobacters populate. Looking a little "dirty' does not take away from the filter bags ability to act as a biological filter. Most hobbyists reuse their filter bags for many months if not longer. Provided all the gunk is rinsed of of the filter bag, it will be more useful than when new. You need to just ensure that there's no build up of gunk, as for one thing, this encourages an off-balance heavy population of the nitrobacters converting nitrite -- which can then grow on top of the nitrobacters that convert the ammonia, reducing their populations by restricting their oxygen, effectively throwing the cycle out the window. > > > > The Ammo-Chips aren't working well, definitely because you have salt in the water. Ammo-chips are to be put in a small container of salt solution overnight to recharge them -- causing them to release their intake of ammonia into this solution. When used in the aquarium's water containing salt, it cannot absorb ammonia as this salt is making it expell any ammonia it would otherwise attempt to take up. But, it shouldn't be used anyway, if you want a nitrogen cycle. If a cycle can't be established for whatever reason, then Ammo-Chips may be used as a last resort -- but not in salted aquarium water. > > > > Goldfish don't really need salt in their water anyway, nor do most other aquarium fishes -- but then, I'm not sure if you believe this since you don't seem to believe that goldfish grow (and yet your plan was to "grow" the goldfish larger (like up to 4" or 5"), contradicting your original belief. > > > > Please know that goldfish in a small aquarium or goldfish bowl (where they don't belong) is the same identical species as the 14" goldfish in a pond. They will and they do grow to this size provided they're given the opportunity to prosper. While you did keep a goldfish (or several?) for 9 years in a small tank or bowl -- as was the accepted way of keeping these fish by people not knowing about their true needs -- you were in effect stunting these fish, preventing them from reaching their full potential. > > > > Please know too, that I'm not in any way trying to downgrade your good intentions; I can only chalk it up to your not understanding what they really require. Yes, as I stated back on June 5th, a 50 gallon tank may probably sound like gross overkill in the size of this tank compared to the 2 1/2" goldfish -- and it is, IF 2 1/2" were their maximum size, but it really isn't (since even these goldfish you have now will get to 14" if allowed to) if provided with a large enough tank. A 50 or 75 gallon (or larger tank) does not need to be furnished to them immediately, and the tank size may be graduated as they grow, but most of us believe it's just as easy (and economical too) and even more beneficial to the small fish to provide them with (or near) the size tank they'll eventually need in several years. > > > > As responsible keepers of these animals, we should want to ensure the greatest prosperity for the fish under our care, to enable them to reach their full potential. To do any less for them is to do them a disservice. I realize that you did not elect to take on this responsibility, but since you sought out our advice, I'd hope that you might at least believe what we're trying to help you with to best care of these fish's needs. We are not pulling these numbers out of a hat, they're based on fact and the knowledge that any common or Comet (straight-tailed) goldfish will reach up to or very near 14" given the proper environment that won't restrict them. If goldfish "don't grow," then where do all these 14" pond goldfish come from? > > > > BTW, stunted fish may still often live fairly long, when all other requirements of their's are met -- like ensuring their water is clean and giving them nutritional foods, etc., but stunted fish are deprived of having the full health that their fully grown brothers and sisters enjoy. Their health is actually compromised from being restricted to grow normally. They're even more prone to contracting diseases since stunting is a form of stress. > > > > I'm glad for you, that you found homes for two of these fish. Perhaps in short time, you might (hopefully) find homes for the remainder. I realize you had even intended to possibly keep them, at least for a while, but it's just not practical and would not be in their best interest. Keep up the good work in maintaining them the way you're doing while they're in your care. They should do fine until they're re-homed. > > > > Briefly getting back to the Ammo-Chips, this product does not absorbn and fill up with salt in its entirety. Rather, it absorbs just the Sodium ions of the salt, in being "charged." When exposed to ammonia in salt-free water, it then releases the sodium ions (but not salt, as it contains no salt) in exchange for ammonia. > > > > BTW, don't believe everything you read. While there are many good sources of need information about fish, especially on the internet, there are just as many sites, established by people not knowing enough but who's web site makes them look authoritative, but giving erroneous advice. The goldfish's ancestors never evolved in salted water, and this fish does not have a need for it. Salt does have its place (and uses) though, in fishkeeping -- not the least is in helping treat some diseases -- but if eventual poor water conditions are feared to potentially cause harm to the fish if the ammonia gets beyond your control, it only takes 1/8 (or less) of a teaspoon of salt per gallon in the water now to prevent the possibility of blood poisoning if the ammonia ever escalates suddenly beyond your ability to control it. Once blood poisoning set in though, without any salt in the water, it will take 3 teaspoons of salt per gallon in the water, for at least 3 weeks, to get the blood poisoning under control. So, yes, it has its uses but does not need to be used in any great quantity at all. > > > > One last thing -- whenever the ammonia rises so substantially that it starts to become a danger to the fish, just add a good water conditioner, meant to dotoxify chloramine -- like Prime -- to the water. The water conditioner will convert the ammonia into relatively harmless ammonium. Should this ever be encounter, extra aeration is very helpful -- and occasionaly essential when there's a large amount of ammonia to be converted (as the ammonia-ammonium conversion process uses oxygen). > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > > > OK, this is a little complicated, but... > > > > > > For my goldies, for a while, I was using the bio-bag filter that has charcoal in it. Then I was told that charcoal controversial to use, so I took it out of the filter bag after using it for a couple week or so. I figured it's fine anyway, since the tank is overstocked. > > > > > > I saw that aquarium salt is supposed to be good for goldies so I used it and they seem to like it. > > > > > > Ammonia levels were never very high, but I saw these things called Ammo-Chips that are supposed to help keep ammonia levels down in overstocked tanks (which mine is). Didn't seem to help much. I don't really know how fast they work, but soon after, I felt like the floss filter bag was getting pretty dirty (I had reused by cleaning it out 3 times already using aquarium water), so I changed the entire filter bag, and then it seemed like my ammonia levels went up (around 2, previously .25), even with the ammo-chips. I tamped it down to about .50 with some ammonia reducer liquid. > > > > > > Did my ammo levels spike because I changed out the filter bag? > > > > > > Also, is it possible that the ammo-chips aren't working well because of the aquarium salt? I read somewhere that aquarium salt might negate the ammo-chips purpose (they absorb and fill up with salt?). > > > > > > I did manage to find new homes for 2 of my 6 fish today! > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54965	From: Ray	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: What type of Fishes you Have ?

Hi John, Many fishes do not have common name, including the majority of the Rift Lake Cichlid species. The Malawi Blue Dolphin (full common name) is one of the few which do. Others which do are the Peacocks, as an example and still others are called by a shortened scientific name -- like "Julies" for Julidochromis (or Haps for Haplochromine -- but not necessarily only for Haplochromis). All Cichlid mouthbrooders are categorized as "Haplochromines." Yes, the Malawi Blue Dolphin is an extremely nice looking fish -- and has been in the hobby starting in the late 1960's. I started importing this species in the very early 1970's. Still keep them as they're an old favorite of mine, but didn't always maintain them for these full 40+ years. While they're still popular now, they were even much more popular back then, but constant new attractive imports from the Lakes displaced them in rank as perceived by the newer hobbyists (many who have to have the most recent import -- the newest fish on the block). One big plus for them, as a Malawi Cichlid, is that besides them being very nice looking fish, they're quite mellow in disposition -- which can't be said for many other Rift Lake Cichlids. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Yes, very impressed with your collection! I had to Google several of the > names as I didn't recognise them. The Blue Dolphins are beautiful fish, > I've never seen them before. > > John*<o)))< > > * > > > On 21 June 2013 04:22, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > Wow, Now you are the winner with having huge number of tanks and fishes :). > > > > Definitely I will move my Giant Gourami into some other tank or replace > > with some other fish very soon. > > > > Regards, > > Faisal > > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > > Hello Faisal, > > > > > > As the response to your question seems to be winding down, I thought I'd > > > add here some of what I'm maintaining in my hatchery. Following is part > > of > > > what I'm breeding and/or just maintaining as specimen fish as ones I > > enjoy > > > caring for and watching: > > > > > > 1) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Pair White Archocentrus > > > octofasciatus (Jack Dempey) - M - 11", F - 8", 1 Pair Platydoras > > armatulus > > > (Striped Raphael Catfish - M - 9", F - 11". > > > > > > 2) 72" L x 18" W x 23" H (125 Gallon) -- 1 Crenicichla aaxatilis > > > (Ring-Tailed Pike Cichlid) - 14", 1 Theraps zonatus 14". > > > > > > 3) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus leleupi > > > Tembwe 4 1/2", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Placidochromis electra (Deep Water Hap) 4" - > > 5 > > > ". > > > > > > 4) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Neolamprologus brichardi > > > Daffodil 3", 6 (2 M, 4 F) Protomelas taeniolatus (Red Empress) 5". > > > > > > 5) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 2 Pair Julidochromis ornatus 2 > > > 1/2", 6 (2 M 4 F) Electric Blue Haplochromis (Ahli) 5". > > > > > > 6) 60" L x 18" W x 23" H (100 Gallon) -- 8 (2 M, 6 F) Cyrtocara moorei > > > (Malawi Blue Dolphin) 6". > > > > > > 7) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 4 Paratilapia polleni > > "Small-Spot" > > > 6" - 8 ". > > > > > > 8) 48" L x 18" W x 21" H (75 Gallon) -- 1 Pr Australoheros oblongum M - 5 > > > 1/2", F - 4". > > > > > > 9) 36" L x 18 W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Koi Angelfish > > > > > > 10) 36" L x 18" W x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- Gold Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > > > 11) 36" L x 18" W x 19 H (50 Gallon ) Black Angelfish > > > > > > 12) 36" L x 18" w x 19" H (50 Gallon) -- German Blue Pearlscale Angelfish > > > > > > Plus, 78 additional tanks which I won't all list here (total of 3200 > > > gallons of fish space). Your Giant Gourami sounds nice, but I'm sure you > > > know that your 30 gallon tank won't be nearly big enough for him as he > > > grows (they get to at least 24" or so). > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > In response of below email, I am maintaining 2 tanks. > > > > > > > > 1) 4 x 2 x 1.5 (L x H x W) Feet = 9 Pair (18 Piece) of Red Belly > > Piranhas > > > > having size of 2" - 3" inches. > > > > 2) 3 x 1.5 x 1 (L x H x W) = 1 Giant Gourami of 5 - 7 inches. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Faisal Ashraf <faisal.ashhraf@ > > > ...>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > I am wondering that what type of fishes people loves to keep in their > > > > > aquarium (Fresh Water). Appreciate if you kindly share the following > > > > > details. > > > > > > > > > > Size of Aquarium = > > > > > Type of Fish & Quantity = > > > > > Size of Fish = > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Faisal Ashraf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > > to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54966	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Up and running.

Hi all. I've had my little tank beside the bed back up for a few days now. I was unable to find any pure ammonia; so I got to thinking that maybe there is a tighter reign being kept on it, because it could be used for some nefarious activity, like bomb making? just a thought. I did my best, by taking the sponge out of the 40 and cutting it to fit the little filter; that should have given the tank a head start. I put a little platy in there a couple days ago, who gave birth in the bag on the way here, and mother and fry all look happy still. When I was in the city getting my supplies, the salesman told me that Aqua Clear did not make bio bags any more, and hadn't for a couple of years, but that the ammonia chips are far better, and have now replaced them in the hobby; this coming from a store that mostly does fish. Better for them yes, as they have to be replaced every month, according to him. I knew better and called him on it, but he would not admit that he was full of it. I shall not be going back to "Big Al's" Few things bother a Polymath more, than having a salesman try to convince them of something that they know to be untrue. So what did we do? It just so happens that the store down the road sells all the sizes of bio bags, and still orders them regularly; they shall have our business; there's more than one pet store in the big city. I'll put some pics up after I get it decorated; I'm looking for that perfect piece of root looking type of wood. I did get some nice gravel; it is a natural darkish brown sand colour, and is very small; so the pygmy corys barbels should be happy; I figured this was a better choice than having to stir sand, or worrying about ending up with a million snails to stir it. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54967	From: Amber	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Up and running.

Glad to hear you had another tank on hand that was already cycled. Watch both tanks closely and be ready to do water changes if the ammonia level goes up. Both tanks might have a "mini" cycle for a week or two while the nitrifying bacteria re-grows. Glad you found a LFS that wasn't trying to lie to you just to make more money off of you. My LFS is very expensive (everything has to be flown in, so expensive shipping), but we're getting another fish store later this summer. Hopefully the competition will lower the prices a little. It's not fun living on an island with no selection of stores. Amber On 6/21/2013 11:40 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > Hi all. > > I've had my little tank beside the bed back up for a few days now. > I was unable to find any pure ammonia; so I got to thinking that maybe > there is a tighter reign being kept on it, because it could be used > for some nefarious activity, like bomb making? just a thought. > I did my best, by taking the sponge out of the 40 and cutting it to > fit the little filter; that should have given the tank a head start. > I put a little platy in there a couple days ago, who gave birth in the > bag on the way here, and mother and fry all look happy still. > When I was in the city getting my supplies, the salesman told me that > Aqua Clear did not make bio bags any more, and hadn't for a couple of > years, but that the ammonia chips are far better, and have now > replaced them in the hobby; this coming from a store that mostly does > fish. > Better for them yes, as they have to be replaced every month, > according to him. I knew better and called him on it, but he would not > admit that he was full of it. I shall not be going back to "Big Al's" > Few things bother a Polymath more, than having a salesman try to > convince them of something that they know to be untrue. So what did we > do? It just so happens that the store down the road sells all the > sizes of bio bags, and still orders them regularly; they shall have > our business; there's more than one pet store in the big city. > > I'll put some pics up after I get it decorated; I'm looking for that > perfect piece of root looking type of wood. I did get some nice > gravel; it is a natural darkish brown sand colour, and is very small; > so the pygmy corys barbels should be happy; I figured this was a > better choice than having to stir sand, or worrying about ending up > with a million snails to stir it. > > :-)>>> > > Al. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54968	From: joe t	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Ken and Ray; Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" joe t.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54969	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Joe, Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for the time being or leave it alone? We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 I have. I'll just be patient. Tanks, -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ken and Ray; > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" > > joe t. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54970	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/21/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

There is nothing like flushing the toilet our fish live in. Chemicals we might add to the water, save the Chlorine removers, do nothing to improve the general living conditions out trapped aquatic pets live in. Change as much water as often as you can! Charles H

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54971	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

The most important part of the ph is that it remains stable. It's the sudden fluctuations in ph that harms your fish. Unless you have extremely sensitive fish....most fish will adjust to less than ideal ph. They did it in the wild. The wilds of a Florida fish farm as well. Harry ________________________________ From: megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 9:21 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?   Joe, Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for the time being or leave it alone? We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 I have. I'll just be patient. Tanks, -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ken and Ray; > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" > > joe t. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54972	From: Ray	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Joe, You're not "over-riding" my message. If you were, uou can be sure I that I would have told you so. I never advocated not changing water. The measures I recommended for keeping ammonia non-toxic -- by usuing Prime -- were not in lieu of partial water changes but in concert with these PWC's. It has been my unsderstanding that Ken has been and is ccontinuing to do PWC's just about every couple of days. As Prime (or another good dechloraminator) needs to be used as water conditioner anyway, when making PWC's, and since Prime is effective for two days, this should ensure any ammonia remains in the state of ammonium. But, if by chance Ken sees the ammonia elevating and he doesn't have a chance to make a PWC on the third day (or his schedule regimen changes to extend out the PWC's for 3 days instead of 2), then an addition of water conditioner at that time will prevent toxicity. As Charles says -- change as much water as you can, whenever you can. Nothing can take the place of fresh water. The token, miniscule (1/8" teaspoon per gallon or less) amount of salt maintained in the water at all times, replaced whenever a PWC is made, will ensure the prevention of Brown Blood Syndrome (ammonia poisoning) in the fish in the event the ammonia climbs precipitously and unexpectedly -- but I can't see this happening with Ken's maintenance methods. Just covering all bases here in case he or any other member here foresees the possiblity of a period of not being able to kkep up with PWC's, as when goingv on a vacation, etc. If the time never comers, so jmuch the netter, but it's good to know that ammonia poisoning does not have to happen, even though salt does not normally need to be usded in the aquqarium at all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ken and Ray; > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" > > joe t. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54973	From: Ava	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: tank switch...cycle?

So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54974	From: harry perry	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?

Your only going to be able to tell by your test kit. Ammonia  0 NiTrite  0 NiTRATE  around 40. You should be fine with moving everything over especially the filter and the filter material. Check it with your test kit. If not Tetra Safe Start has been proven to cycle a tank quickly. Harry ________________________________ From: Ava <aboswell91@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:37 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] tank switch...cycle?   So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54975	From: Amber	Date: 6/22/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?

Only the top little bit of gravel has nitrifying bacteria growing on it, the rest of the gravel is full of detritus and should probably be rinsed out before re-using it. Scooping out the top layer and saving it and carefully adding it back onto the top of the gravel after you add the rinsed gravel will probably keep a good portion of bacteria still alive. Amber On 6/22/2013 9:08 PM, harry perry wrote: > > Your only going to be able to tell by your test kit. > > Ammonia 0 > > NiTrite 0 > NiTRATE around 40. > > You should be fine with moving everything over especially the filter > and the filter material. Check it with your test kit. If not Tetra > Safe Start has been proven to cycle a tank quickly. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Ava <aboswell91@... <mailto:aboswell91%40gmail.com>> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:37 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank switch...cycle? > > > > So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them > to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as > much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one > up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from > old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or > because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54976	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?

Hi Ava, be sure to keep the filter in a tank of the old water while you are switching over & then you should preserve the good bacterial colony on there. In case you have a new filter for your bowfront then still run your old filter alongside it for a couple of weeks so that it 'seeds' the sterile new media. After the two weeks then you could still keep both filter running because you cannot over filter messy Goldfish. John*<o)))<* On 23 June 2013 06:15, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > ** > > > Only the top little bit of gravel has nitrifying bacteria growing on it, > the rest of the gravel is full of detritus and should probably be rinsed > out before re-using it. Scooping out the top layer and saving it and > carefully adding it back onto the top of the gravel after you add the > rinsed gravel will probably keep a good portion of bacteria still alive. > > Amber > > > On 6/22/2013 9:08 PM, harry perry wrote: > > > > Your only going to be able to tell by your test kit. > > > > Ammonia 0 > > > > NiTrite 0 > > NiTRATE around 40. > > > > > You should be fine with moving everything over especially the filter > > and the filter material. Check it with your test kit. If not Tetra > > Safe Start has been proven to cycle a tank quickly. > > > > Harry > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ava <aboswell91@... <mailto:aboswell91%40gmail.com>> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:37 AM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] tank switch...cycle? > > > > > > > > So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them > > to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as > > much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one > > up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from > > old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or > > because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54977	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?

When I did that, I stuck my filter on the lip of a bucket full of old tank water, plugged it in, and ran it while I changed things over. It can't hurt, and these things usually take longer than we think they will. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54978	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: tank switch...cycle?

The gravel will help, the water won’t help. You would be better with an established filter or filter material, but if your new tank is lightly stocked the gravel might be enough. Test daily to be sure and have a back-up plan if you get ammonia. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 1:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: tank switch...cycle? When I did that, I stuck my filter on the lip of a bucket full of old tank water, plugged it in, and ran it while I changed things over. It can't hurt, and these things usually take longer than we think they will. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > So my goldfish are in a 30gallon tall right now. I want to switch them to a 36 bowfront. I plan on taking their current tank water, put as much as I can in buckets, take the tank off the stand, set the new one up, add all gravel from current tank to new one, as much water from old tank to new one, same filter... do I still need to cycle? Or because most is same water/bacteria would I be fine? Thanks. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54979	From: Andy Mills	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Is there such a thing as a blue angelfish

Hello, one of my local shops said they were hoping to get some blue angelfish in last week. I've never seen a blue angelfish before and am just wondering if there really are blue angelfish now or whether they're more likely to be silver/grey, like a blue oranda. Does anyone here know?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54980	From: deenerzz	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as a blue angelfish

I believe they may also be referred to as the Philipine Angelfish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmjJ9rP7MJs Mike -----Original Message----- From: Andy Mills <andy.mills@...> To: aquaticlife <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 11:25 am Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there such a thing as a blue angelfish Hello, one of my local shops said they were hoping to get some blue angelfish in last week. I've never seen a blue angelfish before and am just wondering if there really are blue angelfish now or whether they're more likely to be silver/grey, like a blue oranda. Does anyone here know? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54981	From: Ray	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Ken, Since you're now back to considering to keep one or two of these goldfish, may I assume that would only be in a 70 gallon tank you mentioned having room for if you rearrange the furniture? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > Joe, > > Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! > > I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for the time being or leave it alone? > > We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 I have. I'll just be patient. > > Tanks, > -Ken > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Ken and Ray; > > > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" > > > > joe t. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54982	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. I have two Penguin 10 – 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. Dora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54983	From: Ray	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Dora, I'd just like to add, that by using two filters, you do not double the amount of nitrifying bacteria. Instead, each filter will take on half the job of nitrification, i.e., each filter will have only half the normal amount of bacteria found in the usual single filter. You're right though -- when changing out the media in one filter for new media, the other filter will help maintain the cycle, if even only at half the capacity. The ammonia won't spike nearly as much at that time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. > > I have two Penguin 10 â€" 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. > > If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54984	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/23/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

makes sense to me ray. there can only be as much bacteria in the system total, as there is food for it. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Dora, > > I'd just like to add, that by using two filters, you do not double the amount of nitrifying bacteria. Instead, each filter will take on half the job of nitrification, i.e., each filter will have only half the normal amount of bacteria found in the usual single filter. You're right though -- when changing out the media in one filter for new media, the other filter will help maintain the cycle, if even only at half the capacity. The ammonia won't spike nearly as much at that time. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. > > > > I have two Penguin 10 â€" 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. > > > > If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. > > > > Dora > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54985	From: deenerzz	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

I am with Dora on this one. Some of my tanks have two power filters or in the case of the 55 gallon in my bedroom I have one Aqua Clear HOB filter and an air driven sponge filter. With all but the largest Aqua Clear HOB filter you can have two sponges in them. Remove one and clean it in old tank water and leave the other in until next maintenance cleaning and repeat. With the air driven sponge filter you can also keep an bait aerator air pump that runs on one or two D cell batteries. If you lose power you just hook it up and you still have a filter running. They are usually not too expensive and can be found at bait shops, walmart etc. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 5:52 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter? Dora, I'd just like to add, that by using two filters, you do not double the amount of nitrifying bacteria. Instead, each filter will take on half the job of nitrification, i.e., each filter will have only half the normal amount of bacteria found in the usual single filter. You're right though -- when changing out the media in one filter for new media, the other filter will help maintain the cycle, if even only at half the capacity. The ammonia won't spike nearly as much at that time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. > > I have two Penguin 10 â€" 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. > > If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54986	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Mike, There's no way you can refute the fact that a certain amount of ammonia given off by the fish can only support so much bacteria, regardless if you had 6, 8 or 10 filters running. Each filter would be more sparsely populated. You'll note that I didn't tell Dora there was anything wrong with using multiple filters, although it is normally unnecessarily redundant. Two or more filters do have their uses though -- as I pointed out -- as, at least half the bacteria will still be in place when changing out the media for new, in the other filter. Your example of the event of a power failure and the ability to continue running an air-operated filter on batteries is another benefit. The Aqua Clear HOB filters having two sponges in them, with one sponge to be cleaned and one to be left in place during alternating maintenance sessions, is the clear benefit that goes back to my reply to Dora as describing two separate filters. In this case, each of the two sponges in the Aqua Clear filter can carry only half the amount of bacteria that the system can support (with the present amount of ammonia being produced). Half the amount of bacteria is always better than none at all in being able to continue a cycle, even though it wouldn't be able to handle the daily ammonia output of the fish, but it will prevent a high spike in the ammonia (and nitrite), even though the ammonia level can't help to elevate until the new media becomes populated. In the interum, the old populated media will be increasing its population of bacteria as the new media starts becoming populated, since more ammonia will be temporarily available. As the new media's bacteria's population approaches that of the old media, the old media's bacteria population will self-reduce to its previous level --adjusting to the decrease in available ammonia -- as the new media becomes more populated, and increasingly uses more of the available ammonia up until the point where the populations in both media are uniform. A point I'm trying to make here is that if one of these two filters were to be transferred to a newly set up tank, having a similar bioload, it could not be depended upon to continue a cycle as being fully established, as it wouldn't be fully cycled (it wouldn't have a full population of bacteria); it would only be half cycled in proportion to the bioload and would need time to become fully established in building up its bacteria populations, while larger PWC's need to be made each week until it completes; or Prime is used in between PWC's to eliminate toxicity until that time. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > I am with Dora on this one. Some of my tanks have two power filters or in the case of the 55 gallon in my bedroom I have one Aqua Clear HOB filter and an air driven sponge filter. With all but the largest Aqua Clear HOB filter you can have two sponges in them. Remove one and clean it in old tank water and leave the other in until next maintenance cleaning and repeat. > > With the air driven sponge filter you can also keep an bait aerator air pump that runs on one or two D cell batteries. If you lose power you just hook it up and you still have a filter running. They are usually not too expensive and can be found at bait shops, walmart etc. > > Mike > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 5:52 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter? > > > > > > > Dora, > > I'd just like to add, that by using two filters, you do not double the amount of nitrifying bacteria. Instead, each filter will take on half the job of nitrification, i.e., each filter will have only half the normal amount of bacteria found in the usual single filter. You're right though -- when changing out the media in one filter for new media, the other filter will help maintain the cycle, if even only at half the capacity. The ammonia won't spike nearly as much at that time. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. > > > > I have two Penguin 10 â€" 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. > > > > If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. > > > > Dora > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54987	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Al, That's exactly it. There can't be any more nitrifying bacteria in the filter -- or filters -- than can be supported by the organic wastes that the fish are giving off. Just because one may have two filters doesn't mean that the amount of these bacteria will be doubled; they're instead distributed between the filters. If one were running three filters, than each filter would have only 1/3 the amount of bacteria that would normally be found in the one filter. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > makes sense to me ray. there can only be as much bacteria in the system total, as there is food for it. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Dora, > > > > I'd just like to add, that by using two filters, you do not double the amount of nitrifying bacteria. Instead, each filter will take on half the job of nitrification, i.e., each filter will have only half the normal amount of bacteria found in the usual single filter. You're right though -- when changing out the media in one filter for new media, the other filter will help maintain the cycle, if even only at half the capacity. The ammonia won't spike nearly as much at that time. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@> wrote: > > > > > > You know, you don’t have to restrict your filtration capacity to that advised for the tank, nor use just one layer of it. > > > > > > I have two Penguin 10 â€" 20 gallon filter units going in my 20 gallon, each containing one filter cartridge, one piece of filter pad, and one bag of plastic filter thingies that you can buy online to improve filtration capacity. > > > > > > If you just have one filter cartridge in one filter unit, then when you change it you will tend to have spikes. > > > > > > Dora > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54988	From: megablasto2000	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ray, That would be the plan, if we decide to keep one or two. I will be seeing what the response is when I renew my ads again this week. I'd really like to have two more fish re-homed ASAP. -Ken --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Ken, > > Since you're now back to considering to keep one or two of these goldfish, may I assume that would only be in a 70 gallon tank you mentioned having room for if you rearrange the furniture? > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! > > > > I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for the time being or leave it alone? > > > > We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 I have. I'll just be patient. > > > > Tanks, > > -Ken > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > Ken and Ray; > > > > > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > > > > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > > > > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or conditioner) in just like you told me" > > > > > > joe t. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54989	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi Ray, Interesting point about there being a finite amount of good bacteria & this will be distributed proportionally between as many filters as there are in the system. Obvious when you think about it, just that I never had before! I would still advise over-filtration together with plenty of PWCs in the case of Carps simply because they are very dirty fish so the more of that waste you can stop from floating around the tank the better. John*<o)))<* On 24 June 2013 11:29, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > > That would be the plan, if we decide to keep one or two. I will be seeing > what the response is when I renew my ads again this week. I'd really like > to have two more fish re-homed ASAP. > > -Ken > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > > > Ken, > > > > Since you're now back to considering to keep one or two of these > goldfish, may I assume that would only be in a 70 gallon tank you mentioned > having room for if you rearrange the furniture? > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> > wrote: > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the > water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I > actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! > > > > > > I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like > it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new > homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty > reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the > ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for > the time being or leave it alone? > > > > > > We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on > whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting > a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 > I have. I'll just be patient. > > > > > > Tanks, > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ken and Ray; > > > > > > > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to > fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do > what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > > > > > > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the > salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. > These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying > to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think > you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use > water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > > > > > > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given > such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to > me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or > conditioner) in just like you told me" > > > > > > > > joe t. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54990	From: Ray	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

Hi John, One can never have too much filtration, the same as one can never change too much water -- provided the source water doesn't contain contaminents -- and provided the aquarium's maintanence schedule is such that its parameters don't differ from those of the source water. Now, this doesn't at all mean water volume turnover through the filter, as with a faster rate, but the size and or numbers of the filter(s), as media area. A filter the size of the aquarium itself would not be too large if the flow were proportioned for the size of the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > Interesting point about there being a finite amount of good bacteria & > this will be distributed proportionally between as many filters as there > are in the system. Obvious when you think about it, just that I never had > before! > > I would still advise over-filtration together with plenty of PWCs in the > case of Carps simply because they are very dirty fish so the more of that > waste you can stop from floating around the tank the better. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 24 June 2013 11:29, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > That would be the plan, if we decide to keep one or two. I will be seeing > > what the response is when I renew my ads again this week. I'd really like > > to have two more fish re-homed ASAP. > > > > -Ken > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Ken, > > > > > > Since you're now back to considering to keep one or two of these > > goldfish, may I assume that would only be in a 70 gallon tank you mentioned > > having room for if you rearrange the furniture? > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" <megablasto2000@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of the > > water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I > > actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! > > > > > > > > I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded like > > it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new > > homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking pretty > > reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is the > > ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda for > > the time being or leave it alone? > > > > > > > > We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of depends on > > whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not getting > > a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of the 6 > > I have. I'll just be patient. > > > > > > > > Tanks, > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ken and Ray; > > > > > > > > > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to > > fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not to do > > what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > > > > > > > > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and the > > salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. > > These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are trying > > to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't think > > you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to use > > water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have given > > such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back to > > me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or > > conditioner) in just like you told me" > > > > > > > > > > joe t. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54991	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/24/2013
Subject: Re: Does ammonia spike if I change filter?

I agree with you completely Ray, a filter that size would work for anything! I was just suggesting more than one filter primarily to people new to Goldfish keeping because the majority through no fault of their own will already have a small filter in their [too]small tank but by adding this small filter to their new, upgraded tank & filter system they not only have good bacteria in the old filter to seed the new filter but also more gunk-grabbing ability to keep the water nice & clear. John*<o)))<* On 24 June 2013 23:27, Ray <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > One can never have too much filtration, the same as one can never change > too much water -- provided the source water doesn't contain contaminents -- > and provided the aquarium's maintanence schedule is such that its > parameters don't differ from those of the source water. Now, this doesn't > at all mean water volume turnover through the filter, as with a faster > rate, but the size and or numbers of the filter(s), as media area. A filter > the size of the aquarium itself would not be too large if the flow were > proportioned for the size of the tank. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > Interesting point about there being a finite amount of good bacteria & > > this will be distributed proportionally between as many filters as there > > are in the system. Obvious when you think about it, just that I never had > > before! > > > > I would still advise over-filtration together with plenty of PWCs in the > > case of Carps simply because they are very dirty fish so the more of that > > waste you can stop from floating around the tank the better. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 24 June 2013 11:29, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > That would be the plan, if we decide to keep one or two. I will be > seeing > > > what the response is when I renew my ads again this week. I'd really > like > > > to have two more fish re-homed ASAP. > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ken, > > > > > > > > Since you're now back to considering to keep one or two of these > > > goldfish, may I assume that would only be in a 70 gallon tank you > mentioned > > > having room for if you rearrange the furniture? > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "megablasto2000" > <megablasto2000@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > Since the tank is overstocked, I've been changing about 1/3rd of > the > > > water everyday (through gravel vacuuming), and it is NO CHORE for me. I > > > actually like to do it for these little guys, and they seem to like it! > > > > > > > > > > I was only using some of these chemical ideas because it sounded > like > > > it might be good while the tank is overstocked and I'm looking for new > > > homes for at least two more fish. But my test numbers are looking > pretty > > > reasonable. The only one that I can't seem to change through PWCs is > the > > > ph. It seems to be hovering around 6.2-6.5. Should I use baking soda > for > > > the time being or leave it alone? > > > > > > > > > > We are debating whether to keep one or two of them. Kind of > depends on > > > whether we can get the living room situated sometime soon. I'm not > getting > > > a lot of response to my ads, but I did manage to find homes for 2 of > the 6 > > > I have. I'll just be patient. > > > > > > > > > > Tanks, > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ken and Ray; > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything Ray told you you can take for gospel when it comes to > > > fish keeping. I and just concerned and would like to caution Ken not > to do > > > what a lot of beginners have done when I gave them advise such as this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't use the water conditioner "emergency measure" and > the > > > salt use Ray mentioned as an excuse to not do partial water treatments. > > > These are measures that should be used to help you out while you are > trying > > > to take corrective action on your water parameters. But please! Don't > think > > > you don't heave to do regular water changes because you are going to > use > > > water conditioner or salt instead. Big mistake. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Ray, didn't mean to "override" your message, but I have > given > > > such advise to people before and when things went wrong they came back > to > > > me and said they couldn't understand why cause .."I put the salt (or > > > conditioner) in just like you told me" > > > > > > > > > > > > joe t. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54992	From: Ray	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: O/T to Dawn and Bill Z.

Guys, please excuse this Off Topic message; I did make sure to include O/T in the subject line for others to delete before opening. Bill, please phone me when you can. My old ISP's computer quit accepting text in email format, so now I really need my emails to be routed to my new machine (through my new ISP). Everything else on that older machine is still fine; it just won't accept my typing even though my cursor's fine and I still get the blinking "I" that supposed to accept the typing. Dawn, As you see by my recent 'puter problem, I won't be able to continue my reply to your second email you sent yesterday until I'm able to type the text for it. Thanks all for your understanding if you opened this, in that I have no other way to reach these members except on the List. Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54993	From: Suzi	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: I have a question about German Rams

Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? *Suzi* Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54994	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/26/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Hi Suzi, It all depends, on what else are you going to put in there with them? You should also know that even though the Ram is considered a "Tropical" fish. They are a bit more Tropical, in that they like warmer water about 82 is just right for them. But as you can see, this higher heat requirement is not needed by other fish so you have to be very careful choosing their tank mates. bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54995	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them. How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference. Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn. They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point. How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference. Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank? That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@...> wrote: > > Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > > *Suzi* > Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54996	From: Suzi	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry.   *Suzi* >________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. > >Dawn > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@...> wrote: >> >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? >> >> *Suzi* >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54997	From: Suzi via Dropbox	Date: 6/27/2013
Subject: Suzi .. shared an image with you!

Visit this link to view what they shared: https://www.dropbox.com/l/Ae5rDbpohobjRRmCHLlaBe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54998	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

If that's all that's going to be in that tank you have more than enough room for a pair, and plenty of room for plants. They will give your Rams lots of places to hide, feeling more secure they will actually show themselves more, except at spawning time. Rams are usually good parents and with the lack of any other tank mates you should not have any problem raising the fry. Getting the right conditions for them to spawn is that magic ingredient. Don�t be discouraged though, we have had people on this group that have written in to ask for help for fish that spawned and the owners never knew it until they were doing a water change or other work in the tank and found the fry. It�s just the way things go sometimes. bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 54999	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Hi Suzi, This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to. You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long. On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry. If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@...> wrote: > > I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. > > >   > *Suzi* > > > > >________________________________ > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > > > > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  > > > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. > > > >Dawn > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: > >> > >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > >> > >> *Suzi* > >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55000	From: cobra427lady	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

I successfully bred these fish in the past two years in a 10G tank ( one prolific pair) which was heavily planted and provided lots of cover for the female since after the fry arrived the male was pretty possessive of them and pushed her out. He then proceeded to eat the fry after about 3-4 days of tending them, so I removed the fry to another 10G then finally to a 20g long to grow out. These guys are super tiny and only eat things like vinegar eels and microworms...even freshly hatched out baby brine shrimp was too big for them at first. Super fun to breed and care for but also very slow growing so be prepared to wait it out. In my experience the fry will not survive with the parents for too long....perhaps a bigger tank might have made a difference given how heavily planted my tank was and are. I kept the fry grow out tank bare bottom though - easier to clean and see progress. Good luck - these are great little fish! Cheers,Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@...> wrote: > > Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > > *Suzi* > Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55001	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Hi Suzi & Ray, I think Ray misread something in the original post. The tank that Suzi mentioned keeping these fish in is 32 liters, not 32 gallons... and 32 liters works out to 9.5 gallons. When it comes to smaller fish and smaller tank sizes, the average rule of thumb is 1 inch of ADULT fish per gallon of tank size. With blue rams averaging about 1.5 - 2 inches as adults, that isn't going to leave much room for breeding them in that size of a tank. They may successfully breed, and as Ray said, each spawn will average about 15 - 20 fry, which means even by the time the fry are 1/2 inch long each, that tank would be way over populated which is sure to cause a lot of issues, not just with water quality but also with the territorial habits of the adult fish. I do not suggest attempting to breed blue rams in this size of a tank unless you have another, larger tank available to move the fry to once they are free swimming, to be raised away from the parents. (at least 30 gallon minimum for a nursery tank to raise them even to 1/2 inch each). In that regard, I'd also like to point out that once they breed successfully, rams are quite prolific (as most cichlids are) and tend to spawn quite regularly thereafter if they are happy and in good conditions... so new spawns should be expected within 1 - 2 wks of removal of each previous spawn. This could quickly max out even another fry tank if it is small, and mixing of various sizes of fry could result in the larger/older fry preying on smaller ones. Another potential issue to consider before starting on this venture is that getting 2 rams of the same sex to avoid breeding in such a small tank may also likely result in aggression due to lack of territory. 2 rams of the same sex could, however, work just fine in a 25 - 30 gallon tank, especially if it is a long instead of a tall tank. With plenty of decor, that could provide plenty of territory for them each to claim without having issues with each other. My suggestion, Suzi, is to reconsider your plans and to plan ahead for what would be coming if you were to breed a pair of rams. Do you have an outlet for the fry? How big would the fry have to be before you'd have somewhere to send them? (this will help to determine exactly how much space and how many tanks you would need to raise fry) Do you have the ability to raise the live food (newly hatched brine shrimp) for the ram fry? (that would also require a container of it's own, marine/aquarium salt, air pump and air stones, brine net & brine eggs) The fry would need a food source and would not be able to eat the same food as the parent fish until they are at least 1 - 2 months old. I'm sorry if this sounds like a lot of work, but put simply, raising rams can be a lot of work and require a fair amount of space and time to accomplish. If this is too much for you, either financially or in regards to time or space, maybe there is another species of fish you might want to consider for your existing 9.5 gallon tank? If you'd like suggestions please feel free to ask. I and many others here would be happy to list some alternative species for you to consider. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Hi Suzi, > > This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to. You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long. On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry. If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. > > Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@> wrote: > > > > I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. > > > > > >   > > *Suzi* > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM > > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > > > > > > > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  > > > > > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. > > > > > >Dawn > > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > > >> > > >> *Suzi* > > >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > > >> > > >> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55002	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Thanks Ray. I have a 55gal with a Super Red Serverum. It's young right now.   *Suzi* >________________________________ > From: Ray <sevenspringss@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 9:45 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > >Hi Suzi, > >This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to.  You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long.  On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry.  If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. > >Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. > >Ray > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@...> wrote: >> >> I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. >> >> >>   >> *Suzi* >> >> >> >> >________________________________ >> > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> >> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM >> >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams >> > >> > >> >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  >> > >> >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. >> > >> >Dawn >> > >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: >> >> >> >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? >> >> >> >> *Suzi* >> >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >------------------------------------ >> > >> >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s >> > >> > >> >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > >> >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  >> > >> >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > >> >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > >> >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55003	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Thanks Clare, They are so pretty.   *Suzi* >________________________________ > From: cobra427lady <clare@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 9:37 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > >I successfully bred these fish in the past two years in a 10G tank ( one prolific pair) which was heavily planted and provided lots of cover for the female since after the fry arrived the male was pretty possessive of them and pushed her out.  He then proceeded to eat the fry after about 3-4 days of tending them, so I removed the fry to another 10G then finally to a 20g long to grow out.  These guys are super tiny and only eat things like vinegar eels and microworms...even freshly hatched out baby brine shrimp was too big for them at first. >Super fun to breed and care for but also very slow growing so be prepared to wait it out. >In my experience the fry will not survive with the parents for too long....perhaps a bigger tank might have made a difference given how heavily planted my tank was and are.  I kept the fry grow out tank bare bottom though - easier to clean and see progress. > >Good luck - these are great little fish! > >Cheers,Clare > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@...> wrote: >> >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? >> >> *Suzi* >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55004	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

my tank is 36 gallons.   *Suzi* >________________________________ > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:18 AM >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > >Hi Suzi & Ray, >I think Ray misread something in the original post.  The tank that Suzi mentioned keeping these fish in is 32 liters, not 32 gallons... and 32 liters works out to 9.5 gallons.  > >When it comes to smaller fish and smaller tank sizes, the average rule of thumb is 1 inch of ADULT fish per gallon of tank size.  With blue rams averaging about 1.5 - 2 inches as adults, that isn't going to leave much room for breeding them in that size of a tank.  They may successfully breed, and as Ray said, each spawn will average about 15 - 20 fry, which means even by the time the fry are 1/2 inch long each, that tank would be way over populated which is sure to cause a lot of issues, not just with water quality but also with the territorial habits of the adult fish.  I do not suggest attempting to breed blue rams in this size of a tank unless you have another, larger tank available to move the fry to once they are free swimming, to be raised away from the parents. (at least 30 gallon minimum for a nursery tank to raise them even to 1/2 inch each).  In that regard, I'd also like to point out that once they breed successfully, rams are quite prolific (as most cichlids are) and tend to spawn quite regularly thereafter if they are happy and in good conditions... so new spawns should be expected within 1 - 2 wks of removal of each previous spawn.  This could quickly max out even another fry tank if it is small, and mixing of various sizes of fry could result in the larger/older fry preying on smaller ones.  > >Another potential issue to consider before starting on this venture is that getting 2 rams of the same sex to avoid breeding in such a small tank may also likely result in aggression due to lack of territory.  2 rams of the same sex could, however, work just fine in a 25 - 30 gallon tank, especially if it is a long instead of a tall tank.  With plenty of decor, that could provide plenty of territory for them each to claim without having issues with each other.  > >My suggestion, Suzi, is to reconsider your plans and to plan ahead for what would be coming if you were to breed a pair of rams.  Do you have an outlet for the fry?  How big would the fry have to be before you'd have somewhere to send them? (this will help to determine exactly how much space and how many tanks you would need to raise fry)  Do you have the ability to raise the live food (newly hatched brine shrimp) for the ram fry?  (that would also require a container of it's own, marine/aquarium salt, air pump and air stones, brine net & brine eggs)  The fry would need a food source and would not be able to eat the same food as the parent fish until they are at least 1 - 2 months old. > >I'm sorry if this sounds like a lot of work, but put simply, raising rams can be a lot of work and require a fair amount of space and time to accomplish.  If this is too much for you, either financially or in regards to time or space, maybe there is another species of fish you might want to consider for your existing 9.5 gallon tank?  If you'd like suggestions please feel free to ask.  I and many others here would be happy to list some alternative species for you to consider. > >Dawn    > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: >> >> Hi Suzi, >> >> This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to.  You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long.  On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry.  If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. >> >> Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. >> >> Ray >> >> >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@> wrote: >> > >> > I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. >> > >> > >> >   >> > *Suzi* >> > >> > >> > >> > >________________________________ >> > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> >> > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM >> > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams >> > > >> > > >> > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  >> > > >> > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. >> > > >> > >Dawn >> > > >> > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? >> > >> >> > >> *Suzi* >> > >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses >> > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >------------------------------------ >> > > >> > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s >> > > >> > > >> > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >> > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >> > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- >> > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >> > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. >> > > >> > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  >> > > >> > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email >> > > >> > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. >> > > >> > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55005	From: Suzi	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Thanks Bill. I've had that happen to me with albino cories. Didn't know I had male and female and babies until I saw these 1/4" little things swimming around. LOL   *Suzi* >________________________________ > From: oldies1433 <db1433@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 3:35 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > >If that's all that's going to be in that tank you have more than enough >room for a pair, and plenty of room for plants.  They will give your Rams > >lots of places to hide, feeling more secure they will actually show >themselves more, except at spawning time.  Rams are usually good parents >and with the lack of any other tank mates you should not have any problem >raising the fry.  Getting the right conditions for them to spawn is that >magic ingredient. > > > >Don’t be discouraged though, we have had people on this group that have >written in to ask for help for fish that spawned and the owners > >never knew it until they were doing a water change or other work in > >the tank and found the fry.  It’s just the way things go sometimes. > > > >bill in pa > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55006	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Him Dawn, In Suzi's message (#54993) on June 26 @ 12:24 PM -- I guess, my EDT, as it appears in my InBox -- she wrote "36 gallon," the same message that you replied to with your message (#54995) on June 27 @ 12:22 PM. Check her message out again; you see she wrote 36 gallons. I'm allowing 4 gallons for the Ram pair (only as they'd be in this 36 gallon tank), and allowing the remaining 32 gallons for 32 1" juvies. Of course, most (if not all) of the juveniles would need to be pulled out of that tank once they reached 1" in length. If space were a real issue, 16 of those 32 juvies could stay in this tank to reach adulthood but that would defeat the purpose of having it set up as a breeding tank for the original pair. Definitely, all 32 of these juvies could not remain in this tank once they reached the 1" size. If she meant to write "litres," I don't see any other reference to that. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Hi Suzi & Ray, > I think Ray misread something in the original post. The tank that Suzi mentioned keeping these fish in is 32 liters, not 32 gallons... and 32 liters works out to 9.5 gallons. > > When it comes to smaller fish and smaller tank sizes, the average rule of thumb is 1 inch of ADULT fish per gallon of tank size. With blue rams averaging about 1.5 - 2 inches as adults, that isn't going to leave much room for breeding them in that size of a tank. They may successfully breed, and as Ray said, each spawn will average about 15 - 20 fry, which means even by the time the fry are 1/2 inch long each, that tank would be way over populated which is sure to cause a lot of issues, not just with water quality but also with the territorial habits of the adult fish. I do not suggest attempting to breed blue rams in this size of a tank unless you have another, larger tank available to move the fry to once they are free swimming, to be raised away from the parents. (at least 30 gallon minimum for a nursery tank to raise them even to 1/2 inch each). In that regard, I'd also like to point out that once they breed successfully, rams are quite prolific (as most cichlids are) and tend to spawn quite regularly thereafter if they are happy and in good conditions... so new spawns should be expected within 1 - 2 wks of removal of each previous spawn. This could quickly max out even another fry tank if it is small, and mixing of various sizes of fry could result in the larger/older fry preying on smaller ones. > > Another potential issue to consider before starting on this venture is that getting 2 rams of the same sex to avoid breeding in such a small tank may also likely result in aggression due to lack of territory. 2 rams of the same sex could, however, work just fine in a 25 - 30 gallon tank, especially if it is a long instead of a tall tank. With plenty of decor, that could provide plenty of territory for them each to claim without having issues with each other. > > My suggestion, Suzi, is to reconsider your plans and to plan ahead for what would be coming if you were to breed a pair of rams. Do you have an outlet for the fry? How big would the fry have to be before you'd have somewhere to send them? (this will help to determine exactly how much space and how many tanks you would need to raise fry) Do you have the ability to raise the live food (newly hatched brine shrimp) for the ram fry? (that would also require a container of it's own, marine/aquarium salt, air pump and air stones, brine net & brine eggs) The fry would need a food source and would not be able to eat the same food as the parent fish until they are at least 1 - 2 months old. > > I'm sorry if this sounds like a lot of work, but put simply, raising rams can be a lot of work and require a fair amount of space and time to accomplish. If this is too much for you, either financially or in regards to time or space, maybe there is another species of fish you might want to consider for your existing 9.5 gallon tank? If you'd like suggestions please feel free to ask. I and many others here would be happy to list some alternative species for you to consider. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Hi Suzi, > > > > This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to. You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long. On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry. If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. > > > > Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@> wrote: > > > > > > I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. > > > > > > > > >   > > > *Suzi* > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM > > > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > > > > > > > > > > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  > > > > > > > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. > > > > > > > >Dawn > > > > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > > > >> > > > >> *Suzi* > > > >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55007	From: Ray	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: I have a question about German Rams

Apologies for the typo in "Hi;" I deleted that inadvertant "m' on the end of it as soon as I saw it. Have no idea at all how in got back in there as I KNOW it was gone. Weird things keep happening on the 'Net (or maybe it's just happening in this machine!). Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Him Dawn, > > In Suzi's message (#54993) on June 26 @ 12:24 PM -- I guess, my EDT, as it appears in my InBox -- she wrote "36 gallon," the same message that you replied to with your message (#54995) on June 27 @ 12:22 PM. Check her message out again; you see she wrote 36 gallons. I'm allowing 4 gallons for the Ram pair (only as they'd be in this 36 gallon tank), and allowing the remaining 32 gallons for 32 1" juvies. Of course, most (if not all) of the juveniles would need to be pulled out of that tank once they reached 1" in length. If space were a real issue, 16 of those 32 juvies could stay in this tank to reach adulthood but that would defeat the purpose of having it set up as a breeding tank for the original pair. Definitely, all 32 of these juvies could not remain in this tank once they reached the 1" size. If she meant to write "litres," I don't see any other reference to that. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > Hi Suzi & Ray, > > I think Ray misread something in the original post. The tank that Suzi mentioned keeping these fish in is 32 liters, not 32 gallons... and 32 liters works out to 9.5 gallons. > > > > When it comes to smaller fish and smaller tank sizes, the average rule of thumb is 1 inch of ADULT fish per gallon of tank size. With blue rams averaging about 1.5 - 2 inches as adults, that isn't going to leave much room for breeding them in that size of a tank. They may successfully breed, and as Ray said, each spawn will average about 15 - 20 fry, which means even by the time the fry are 1/2 inch long each, that tank would be way over populated which is sure to cause a lot of issues, not just with water quality but also with the territorial habits of the adult fish. I do not suggest attempting to breed blue rams in this size of a tank unless you have another, larger tank available to move the fry to once they are free swimming, to be raised away from the parents. (at least 30 gallon minimum for a nursery tank to raise them even to 1/2 inch each). In that regard, I'd also like to point out that once they breed successfully, rams are quite prolific (as most cichlids are) and tend to spawn quite regularly thereafter if they are happy and in good conditions... so new spawns should be expected within 1 - 2 wks of removal of each previous spawn. This could quickly max out even another fry tank if it is small, and mixing of various sizes of fry could result in the larger/older fry preying on smaller ones. > > > > Another potential issue to consider before starting on this venture is that getting 2 rams of the same sex to avoid breeding in such a small tank may also likely result in aggression due to lack of territory. 2 rams of the same sex could, however, work just fine in a 25 - 30 gallon tank, especially if it is a long instead of a tall tank. With plenty of decor, that could provide plenty of territory for them each to claim without having issues with each other. > > > > My suggestion, Suzi, is to reconsider your plans and to plan ahead for what would be coming if you were to breed a pair of rams. Do you have an outlet for the fry? How big would the fry have to be before you'd have somewhere to send them? (this will help to determine exactly how much space and how many tanks you would need to raise fry) Do you have the ability to raise the live food (newly hatched brine shrimp) for the ram fry? (that would also require a container of it's own, marine/aquarium salt, air pump and air stones, brine net & brine eggs) The fry would need a food source and would not be able to eat the same food as the parent fish until they are at least 1 - 2 months old. > > > > I'm sorry if this sounds like a lot of work, but put simply, raising rams can be a lot of work and require a fair amount of space and time to accomplish. If this is too much for you, either financially or in regards to time or space, maybe there is another species of fish you might want to consider for your existing 9.5 gallon tank? If you'd like suggestions please feel free to ask. I and many others here would be happy to list some alternative species for you to consider. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Suzi, > > > > > > This all depends on how long you intend to keep the fry in this tank with the parents, and what size you plan on rearing them to. You could keep the pair and their fry in a 10 gallon tank -- but not for very long. On average, a pair of German Blue Rams will have about 150 eggs/fry. If you plan on raising them up to a juvenile size of about an inch (2.56 cm) long, then you can't keep any more fry than about 32 of them unless you move them to a larger tank -- or destroy the balance of them at around 1/4" long. > > > > > > Considering that the parents will be about 2" (5 cm) each, totalling 4" of fish, this 36 gallon tank will support only another 32" of fish. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <abook.lovr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am getting a pair. If they bred, I was hoping the tank would be big enough for the fry. > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > *Suzi* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > > > From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> > > > > >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:22 PM > > > > >Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I have a question about German Rams > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In addition to what Bill has said, it also depends on the amount of territory you are going to provide for them.  How much and what types of decor you use will make a huge difference.  Rams, while small, are still cichlids (dwarf cichlids) and that means territorial by nature and the ability to get aggressive, in particular with others of their own species, especially if any of them form male/female pairs and begin to spawn.  They are also very protective of their eggs/fry... which brings me to the next point.  How you mix them male/female ratio also will make a difference.  > > > > > > > > > >Can you post any photos of the tank before you get them so we can get a feel for the decor in the tank?  That would help us a lot in being able to guide you forward with a number of fish and even suggestions for the male/female ratio. > > > > > > > > > >Dawn > > > > > > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Suzi <a.pink.myst@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Can someone tell me how many German Rams is good for a 36 gal aquarium? > > > > >> > > > > >> *Suzi* > > > > >> Ravelry ID: PuppyKisses > > > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/<https://service.mail.com/dereferrer/?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fpuppykisses%2F&lang=en> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > > > >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > > >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > > ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > > >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > > > > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > > > > > > > > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > > > > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55008	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

From: Dora Smith Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:07 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent tube aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so flourescent tubes. They’re a real good thing to have on hand when they blow. The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. 120 V. maybe 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. What specs do I need to know to order new parts? See the list on this page. I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable replacement. It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he successfully used it in his aquarium. What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other than one is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? Could one use either in my aquarium? I’ve been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only supposed to be using 14 watts; does it make a difference? I’d actually prefer the light dimmer. Dora [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55009	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Dora, I would start with a Google search for Fluorescent Ballast, if I am reading you correctly? bill in pa On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > From: Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` > > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent tube > aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so flourescent tubes. > They’re a real good thing to have on hand when they blow. > > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. 120 V. maybe > 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? > > See the list on this page. > > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable replacement. > It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he successfully used it in his > aquarium. > > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other than one > is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? Could one use either in my > aquarium? > > I’ve been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only supposed to be > using 14 watts; does it make a difference? I’d actually prefer the light > dimmer. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55010	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." So opinions please.... New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. Sound reasonable? Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55011	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Does it say how long to let it cure before it is aquarium safe?. Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:31 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] More slaughter. :-(>>>   Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." So opinions please.... New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. Sound reasonable? Thanks. Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55012	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

nope... it says cures in 24 hours... I gave it 3 days to be safe... I'm sure it must be that chemical. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Does it say how long to let it cure before it is aquarium safe?. > > Harry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:31 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] More slaughter. :-(>>> > > > >   > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > So opinions please.... > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. > Sound reasonable? > > Thanks. > > Al. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55013	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Actually, I want someone who actually knows how to match a ballast to tell me how to do it. If I had the technical know-how to get the information from Google I would already have done so. Dora From: oldies1433 Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:32 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Dora, I would start with a Google search for Fluorescent Ballast, if I am reading you correctly? bill in pa On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Dora Smith <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> wrote: > ** > > > > > From: Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:07 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` > > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent tube > aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so flourescent tubes. > They’re a real good thing to have on hand when they blow. > > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. 120 V. maybe > 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? > > See the list on this page. > > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable replacement. > It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he successfully used it in his > aquarium. > > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other than one > is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? Could one use either in my > aquarium? > > I’ve been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only supposed to be > using 14 watts; does it make a difference? I’d actually prefer the light > dimmer. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55014	From: Patrick	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" wrote: > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent > tube aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so > flourescent tubes. They're a real good thing to have on hand > when they blow. So I assume you mean you have a 2-foot fixture that uses 18" F15T8 lamps. Are you experiencing a lot of ballast failures? > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. > 120 V. maybe 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? You need a ballast that will run a F15T8 lamp. > See the list on this page. What page? > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable > replacement. It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he > successfully used it in his aquarium. Yes, you could use that one. > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other > than one is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? > Could one use either in my aquarium? It would appear that the SX version has an energy star rating and is also RoHS compliant. Other than that, they are identical. Yes, you could use either one on your fixture. > I've been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only > supposed to be using 14 watts; does it make a difference? > I'd actually prefer the light dimmer. All of the above mentioned ballast will drive 15W or 14W lamps. Problem is that a 14W lamp is about 15" long while a 15W lamp is 18" long. So to use a 14W lamp you would have to somehow hack your hood to move the lamp sockets 3-inches closer to each other. Also, you generally do not get many lamp type choices with 14W lamps. If you like plain old cool whites, then it isn't a problem. But if you want more aquarium "friendly" spectrums, your choices are much greater with standard 15W 18" lamps. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55015	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

I just replace the ballast, not the hood. It matters whether a 14 watt ballast will work with a 15 watt bulb. It also matters if the ballast will match the screw holes. You have not told me exactly what specifications I do have to match. A list of them would be helpful. Thanks for answering the question I asked! Yours, Dora Smith From: Patrick Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:49 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" wrote: > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent > tube aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so > flourescent tubes. They're a real good thing to have on hand > when they blow. So I assume you mean you have a 2-foot fixture that uses 18" F15T8 lamps. Are you experiencing a lot of ballast failures? > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. > 120 V. maybe 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? You need a ballast that will run a F15T8 lamp. > See the list on this page. What page? > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable > replacement. It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he > successfully used it in his aquarium. Yes, you could use that one. > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other > than one is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? > Could one use either in my aquarium? It would appear that the SX version has an energy star rating and is also RoHS compliant. Other than that, they are identical. Yes, you could use either one on your fixture. > I've been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only > supposed to be using 14 watts; does it make a difference? > I'd actually prefer the light dimmer. All of the above mentioned ballast will drive 15W or 14W lamps. Problem is that a 14W lamp is about 15" long while a 15W lamp is 18" long. So to use a 14W lamp you would have to somehow hack your hood to move the lamp sockets 3-inches closer to each other. Also, you generally do not get many lamp type choices with 14W lamps. If you like plain old cool whites, then it isn't a problem. But if you want more aquarium "friendly" spectrums, your choices are much greater with standard 15W 18" lamps. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55016	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Sorry Dora, My best and safest advise is to call an electrician because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the equipment as well. Please take care and be careful, bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55017	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Already changed it. The bad news. I am so bright, I can work a screwdriver. But I specifically need the specs for being able to find more options than that one brand. I’ve no idea how I identified it to begin with; I got an extra the last time I needed to replace one. Is this give Dora a hard time instead of answer the question she asked today? Maybe I should find a list where they answer questions with the answer. Dora From: oldies1433 Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Sorry Dora, My best and safest advise is to call an electrician because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the equipment as well. Please take care and be careful, bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55018	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

May be they are just trying to help but don't have the answer you want to hear. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`   Already changed it. The bad news. I am so bright, I can work a screwdriver. But I specifically need the specs for being able to find more options than that one brand. I’ve no idea how I identified it to begin with; I got an extra the last time I needed to replace one. Is this give Dora a hard time instead of answer the question she asked today? Maybe I should find a list where they answer questions with the answer. Dora From: oldies1433 Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Sorry Dora, My best and safest advise is to call an electrician because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the equipment as well. Please take care and be careful, bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55019	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Hi Al, Sorry to hear about your poor fish, not only that but you have been inconvenienced both in time & financially by their blatant untruthful packaging. In the UK we have consumer laws that are quite stringent regarding false product descriptions, if you have something similar in the US I think you would be on a winner to pursue this. If methyltriacetoxy silane is toxic to aquatic organisms then someone has screwed up big time by labelling it as aquarium safe, the layman would not be expected to know what that chemical was unless it's effects were stated on the pack. John*<o)))<* On 28 June 2013 21:03, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > nope... it says cures in 24 hours... I gave it 3 days to be safe... I'm > sure it must be that chemical. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > wrote: > > > > Does it say how long to let it cure before it is aquarium safe?. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 3:31 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] More slaughter. :-(>>> > > > > > > > > � > > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... > the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be > singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a > platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the > poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours > later.... dead... two hours! > > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly > neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, > no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone > that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't > lie to me would they? > > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, > and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting > any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of > it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > > So opinions please.... > > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the > fish. > > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out > the filter and gravel. > > Sound reasonable? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55020	From: Dora Smith	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

That’s it. I’m off to find a list where they answer questions with THE ANSWER. What else in God’s great name would anybody think I would want to hear, and it ain’t been offered here yet. People have said everything ELSE on God’s green earth. You’d think it was still the full moon! Dora From: harry perry Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` May be they are just trying to help but don't have the answer you want to hear. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Already changed it. The bad news. I am so bright, I can work a screwdriver. But I specifically need the specs for being able to find more options than that one brand. I’ve no idea how I identified it to begin with; I got an extra the last time I needed to replace one. Is this give Dora a hard time instead of answer the question she asked today? Maybe I should find a list where they answer questions with the answer. Dora From: oldies1433 Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:14 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Sorry Dora, My best and safest advise is to call an electrician because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the equipment as well. Please take care and be careful, bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55021	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Thanks Harry, I don't have my flack-vest on today! <g>I was just trying to keep her safe. Apparently she's better equipped to handle the job than I am because I would not try it. Throw a switch or change a bulb, passed that I go to a professional. bill in pa On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 5:39 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@...>wrote: > ** > > > May be they are just trying to help but don't have the answer you want to > hear. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:35 PM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent > ballas?` > > > � > Already changed it. The bad news. I am so bright, I can work a > screwdriver. > > But I specifically need the specs for being able to find more options than > that one brand. I��������ve no idea how I identified it to begin with; I > got an extra the last time I needed to replace one. > > Is this give Dora a hard time instead of answer the question she asked > today? Maybe I should find a list where they answer questions with the > answer. > > Dora > > From: oldies1433 > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent > ballas?` > > Sorry Dora, > > My best and safest advise is to call an electrician > because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with > that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the > equipment as well. > > Please take care and be careful, > > bill in pa > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55022	From: harry perry	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

This is a fish keeping list. Not an Electrician's list. We don't have the answer you seek. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`   That’s it. I’m off to find a list where they answer questions with THE ANSWER. What else in God’s great name would anybody think I would want to hear, and it ain’t been offered here yet. People have said everything ELSE on God’s green earth. You’d think it was still the full moon! Dora From: harry perry Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:39 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` May be they are just trying to help but don't have the answer you want to hear. Harry ________________________________ From: Dora Smith <mailto:tiggernut24%40yahoo.com> To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Already changed it. The bad news. I am so bright, I can work a screwdriver. But I specifically need the specs for being able to find more options than that one brand. I’ve no idea how I identified it to begin with; I got an extra the last time I needed to replace one. Is this give Dora a hard time instead of answer the question she asked today? Maybe I should find a list where they answer questions with the answer. Dora From: oldies1433 Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:14 PM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` Sorry Dora, My best and safest advise is to call an electrician because you can get yourself in a real jam messing with that stuff to say nothing of the damage you may do the equipment as well. Please take care and be careful, bill in pa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55023	From: joe t	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Hi, Al: I would not bother with the store. They did not manufacture it. I would go to the source; call the manufacturer. Have the tube with you so you can give them whatever numbers they have on it and tell them you bought it specifically because it said "Safe for Aquariums". If it is a decent reputable manufacturer they may make good for it, or tell you what they think you did wrong. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55024	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Hi Dora, No one is trying to upset you & we don't want to see you leave, we are all here to help one another but we can only work with what you give us. Unfortunately there was no link to the list that you referred to in your first post so everyone that responded was having to use an amount of guesswork to fill in the blanks. I would love to help too but as your US voltages are different to those here in the UK I wouldn't take the risk in case I got it wrong. John*<o)))<* On 28 June 2013 20:09, Dora Smith <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > ** > > > > > From: Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` > > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent tube > aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so flourescent tubes. > They’re a real good thing to have on hand when they blow. > > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. 120 V. maybe > 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? > > See the list on this page. > > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable replacement. > It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he successfully used it in his > aquarium. > > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other than one > is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? Could one use either in my > aquarium? > > I’ve been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only supposed to be > using 14 watts; does it make a difference? I’d actually prefer the light > dimmer. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55025	From: joe t	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Hi Dora; If you do not know what your doing, DON'T do it. Especially with a mix of electricity and water! You can hurt yourself real bad. I presume you already know that, but I feel better giving you the caution. If you have an electric store around, ask someone if they can match the ballast for you. They might even set it up for you. You can ask first. Know how much a new one would cost and compare. You may be batter off just getting a new one. Don't let a few dollars make the difference to being happy and safe......your fish as well as you! :0) joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55026	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

You're close John, I'm in Canada, you can tell because I put u's and o's in certain words, like a good colony does. :-)>>> The problem is Joe, that the tube only says, "manufactured for Home Hardware" but it doesn't say by whom. I'm in a small town so they would probably give me my money back.... but I want to keep the evidence, in case I can go farther with the matter somehow. Anybody have any thoughts about just replacing the tank, and washing out the gravel and filter? My thinking is that once the thing that is producing the acetic acid is gone, the problem will be gone; and even if I miss a bit, it will be diluted to the point of not being a factor; P.H. factor that is. :-)>>> Whaddaya think Ray (Mr. chemistry) Donna, anyone? :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55027	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/28/2013
Subject: Re: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?`

Just looked it up... a t-8 puts out 300-600 volts... don't think I would mess around with that... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...> wrote: > > > > From: Dora Smith > Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:07 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: How do I match an aquarium flourescent ballas?` > > I need to order more ballasts for my T-8, 24 inch flourescent tube aquarium light. I use it with 24 inch T8, 15w or so flourescent tubes. They’re a real good thing to have on hand when they blow. > > The last one I got was Cat no IG13-20EL. Electronic blalast. 120 V. maybe 05/ 60 HZ 0.2 Amps? Hard to say. > > What specs do I need to know to order new parts? > > See the list on this page. > > I read somewhere that the Pony SC-120-113-CFL is a suitable replacement. It was someone’s opinion on Amazon; he successfully used it in his aquarium. > > What is the difference between IG13-20#L SX, and IG13-20EL, other than one is for a 14 watt lamp and one is for 15 watts? Could one use either in my aquarium? > > I’ve been using 15 w bulbs with my IG13-20EL, if I was only supposed to be using 14 watts; does it make a difference? I’d actually prefer the light dimmer. > > Dora > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55028	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Sorry Al, I should have noticed that! Indeed the spell checker in my browser is set to 'US English' so when I write a word such as 'colour' it tells me I am wrong with a little wiggly red line underneath it although to me it seems right. How annoying the tube of sealant doesn't give you any details about the manufacturer but surely the store will know where they get the supplies from & there will be a chain to follow there-assuming they are happy to give that information out of course-do you have any citizen's advice or consumer groups in your area that could help you with this? Good luck with pursuing it anyway. With regard to replacing the tank & then washing out the gravel+filter. Set it all up & then run it without any livestock for a couple of days while checking your stats & particularly the pH. If it remains the same as your tap water then you are good to go I would think. John*<o)))<* On 29 June 2013 02:15, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > You're close John, I'm in Canada, you can tell because I put u's and o's > in certain words, like a good colony does. :-)>>> > The problem is Joe, that the tube only says, "manufactured for Home > Hardware" but it doesn't say by whom. I'm in a small town so they would > probably give me my money back.... but I want to keep the evidence, in case > I can go farther with the matter somehow. > > Anybody have any thoughts about just replacing the tank, and washing out > the gravel and filter? My thinking is that once the thing that is producing > the acetic acid is gone, the problem will be gone; and even if I miss a > bit, it will be diluted to the point of not being a factor; P.H. factor > that is. :-)>>> > > Whaddaya think Ray (Mr. chemistry) Donna, anyone? :-)>>> > > Al. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55029	From: Ray	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Al, Sorry to hear about your problem with sealing your tank. I know nothing about these "generic" brands of silicone sealant, but I've always stuck to GE Window & Door Sealant, which used to declare that it was aquarium safe but which lately does not state this only because of receiving claims by hobbyists who didn't use it properly. I've recommended this sealant many times, on here and on other Lists. When I contacted GE, they told me that this is still the same formula that was used by the All Glass Aquarium Company, Inc to manufacture all their tanks -- which goes back many decades. I don't believe the All-Glass Aquarium Co is still in business anymore, having discontinued manufacturing just recently, but I could be wrong. In any case, most all (if not all) silicone sealants include Methyltriacetoxysilane as their ingredient. Yeah, they all like to used these long fancy names to keep us confused. "Silane" is a hydride, a compound of silicon and hydrogen (SiH4, etc.) which as many of us know by now (if we've used this stuff) gives off quite an odor; essentially it's similar to a hydrocarbon An "Acetoxy(phenyl)" is the chemical function of the curing of the silicone sealant, which smells like strong vinegar -- but which can cause one's eyes to burn, due to this activated form of acetic acid -- the combination of fumes which can cause gagging if breathed. It's better used outdoors. Once allowed to completely cure, there is little if any acetic acid residue, although I always rinse out a sealed tank just to make sure. With larger tanks having a much greater combined length of sealed joints, I sometimes fill the tank and drain it after 24 hours just as a precaution even if it's not needed. The main point is that the sealant needs to be completely cured or some acetic acid activity may still be going on. Instructions many years ago told the user to allow up to 48 hours for curing, and that was also when it was stated to be safe for aquariums. Lately, and without the claim of being aquarium-safe, they state to allow 24 hours for curing which is not quite enough time for it to be used for fish -- even though when I've been in a rush, I have used an occasional tank after only 24 hours, but I rinsed it thoroughly several times. These sealant formulas which are used for the home aquariums and even by the large aquarium manufacturers are free of any arsenic additives that are used in other silicone sealants designed to prevent mold, and used in bathrooms (sinks, showers and tubs, etc.) and places where there's a lot of moisture. That's the thing one needs to watch out for -- the arsenic additives. As such, they (arsenic-free sealants) are aquarium safe when allowed to cure longer. It would not surprise me if the Dow Aquarium Sealants specifically marketed for this use may recommend allowing it to cure for 48 hours, although I don't use the product so I can't really know. I suspect that you may not have allowed the sealant to cure long enough before using. If your Home Hardware stated that their sealant was "aquarium safe," it most probably did not contain any mildew and mold eliminators (arsenic additives) -- unless it's designed for bathroom use -- and so probably was safe for aquariums unless their specific formula possibly contains a higher percentage of acetic acid to help speed up the curing time. There's a good chance that, now that you bought a replacement tank, that you may still be able to use this sealed tank after emptying, rinsing and refilling it. Just check you pH again before using it, but if it's tube's directions says that it can be used for bathrooms, it probably contains arsenic and this sealant would need to be removed and replaced. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > So opinions please.... > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. > Sound reasonable? > > Thanks. > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55030	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I can make it there, the old one is dead to me now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a complete water change; I was just looking for opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess I'll just buy a new tank, and like John suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and hope for the best. Al. > > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. > > Sound reasonable? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Al. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55031	From: Brian	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Buying a new tank would probably be the best option to be sure your fish are safe but I wouldn't throw out the old tank yet. I'd give it a week or more to finish curing (empty) and try filling it back up with fresh water and then recheck the pH in a week or so just to be sure. If the pH still changes, maybe it could be used for other types of pets other than fish or it could probably be used as a nice terrarium. Offer it to someone else (Craiglist is needed) with the warning that it isn't suitable for fish. It probably isn't worth the effort to reseal it again considering the fairly low cost of the new tank but if it isn't broken someone may still want it. I find it hard to believe that the silicon would be labled wrong but it is possible. Just my thought. Brian in PA

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55032	From: harry perry	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Years ago I patched an aquarium with silicon while it still had water in it. It sealed the leak and no fish were harmed. I used aquarium silicon from my LFS. Harry ________________________________ From: Brian <kbgwp@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 10:10 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>   Buying a new tank would probably be the best option to be sure your fish are safe but I wouldn't throw out the old tank yet. I'd give it a week or more to finish curing (empty) and try filling it back up with fresh water and then recheck the pH in a week or so just to be sure. If the pH still changes, maybe it could be used for other types of pets other than fish or it could probably be used as a nice terrarium. Offer it to someone else (Craiglist is needed) with the warning that it isn't suitable for fish. It probably isn't worth the effort to reseal it again considering the fairly low cost of the new tank but if it isn't broken someone may still want it. I find it hard to believe that the silicon would be labled wrong but it is possible. Just my thought. Brian in PA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55033	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the Silicone Sealant time to cure. All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which reacts with water (moisture in the air) to release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and harden. They cure from the surface down into the deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the reaction to take place before trusting the structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on how deep the application more than 48 hours may not be enough. We can smell a few parts per million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone is a very good indication of when complete curing is done. Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 days one can fill the tank and check the pH if there remains a question. If it is very low, dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in the water. Give it another day and refill it. Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor anymore. There are many organic compounds which inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly into the surface of the cured sealant and thus can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. Look in the hardware stores for the standard Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price for the same thing at the LFS. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I >can make it there, the old one is dead to me >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a >complete water change; I was just looking for >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and >hope for the best. >Al. > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and >>gravel. >> > Sound reasonable? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > > > Al. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55034	From: Al Keep	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Charles. I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 days.... and said that buying a new tank is not a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. Read the posts before answering please... I have stated that I will just replace it... and still nobody has yet given their opinion about the gravel and or filter being tainted... Read the post... don't jump to conclusions about the question being asked, or the intelligence of the one asking it. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the > Silicone Sealant time to cure. > > All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, > the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which > reacts with water (moisture in the air) to > release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and > harden. They cure from the surface down into the > deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the > reaction to take place before trusting the > structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on > how deep the application more than 48 hours may > not be enough. We can smell a few parts per > million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone > is a very good indication of when complete curing > is done. > > Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor > is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass > structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 > days one can fill the tank and check the pH if > there remains a question. If it is very low, > dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in > the water. Give it another day and refill it. > > Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor > anymore. There are many organic compounds which > inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible > with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly > into the surface of the cured sealant and thus > can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. > > Look in the hardware stores for the standard > Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything > about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price > for the same thing at the LFS. > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I > >can make it there, the old one is dead to me > >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it > >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a > >complete water change; I was just looking for > >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess > >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John > >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter > >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and > >hope for the best. > >Al. > > > > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just > >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and > >>gravel. > >> > Sound reasonable? > >> > > >> > Thanks. > >> > > > > Al. > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55035	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 6/29/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Al, There is nothing wrong with the filter or gravel that some normal rinsing will cure. Don't try to bake it or any special cleaning, just tap water. Put it all back together, fill it with water and start the cycling process over again. All should be fine. Test the pH again after everything is back together. If it is below pH=6 then you might have to buffer it up or choose fish who may live in that pH water. Charles H }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> >I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 >days.... and said that buying a new tank is not >a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. >Read the posts before answering please... I have >stated that I will just replace it... and still >nobody has yet given their opinion about the >gravel and or filter being tainted... Read the >post... don't jump to conclusions about the >question being asked, or the intelligence of the >one asking it. > >Al. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55036	From: joe t	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Diatom Filters

Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? Just wondering. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55037	From: Ray	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Joe, The Vortex brand Diatom Aqarium Filter is still in use by many hobbyists. As it's not normally used continually, this may be why you don't hear as much about it as more conventional types of filters are being used everyday. I'm sure though, that some hobbyists use them as their main filter even though most just use them as "water polishers" or when confronted with a disease -- it will filter out the Ich protozoan. As the filter isn't normally put into full time use, it's special diatomaceous earth powder isn't as fast selling, and so some LFS have dropped it from their display shelves. The powder can still be obtained at some of the chain store -- like PetSmart, or from some of the major on-line pet supply houses -- like That Fish Place (which also has a brick & morter store in Lancaster, PA) You can get it at Amazon.com too. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > Just wondering. > > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55038	From: Lorraine Murphy	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for years and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that is. I’d love to find one. Laurie From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joe t Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? Just wondering. joe t [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55039	From: oldies1433	Date: 6/30/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

You might give these folks a try: http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters bill in pa On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > ** > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for years > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that is. > I�d love to find one. > > Laurie > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of joe t > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > Just wondering. > > joe t > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55040	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

AllGlass didn't go out of business or discontinue anything, they just changed the product line name to "Aqueon". Same company, same employees. :) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Al, > > Sorry to hear about your problem with sealing your tank. I know nothing about these "generic" brands of silicone sealant, but I've always stuck to GE Window & Door Sealant, which used to declare that it was aquarium safe but which lately does not state this only because of receiving claims by hobbyists who didn't use it properly. I've recommended this sealant many times, on here and on other Lists. When I contacted GE, they told me that this is still the same formula that was used by the All Glass Aquarium Company, Inc to manufacture all their tanks -- which goes back many decades. I don't believe the All-Glass Aquarium Co is still in business anymore, having discontinued manufacturing just recently, but I could be wrong. > > In any case, most all (if not all) silicone sealants include Methyltriacetoxysilane as their ingredient. Yeah, they all like to used these long fancy names to keep us confused. "Silane" is a hydride, a compound of silicon and hydrogen (SiH4, etc.) which as many of us know by now (if we've used this stuff) gives off quite an odor; essentially it's similar to a hydrocarbon An "Acetoxy(phenyl)" is the chemical function of the curing of the silicone sealant, which smells like strong vinegar -- but which can cause one's eyes to burn, due to this activated form of acetic acid -- the combination of fumes which can cause gagging if breathed. It's better used outdoors. > > Once allowed to completely cure, there is little if any acetic acid residue, although I always rinse out a sealed tank just to make sure. With larger tanks having a much greater combined length of sealed joints, I sometimes fill the tank and drain it after 24 hours just as a precaution even if it's not needed. The main point is that the sealant needs to be completely cured or some acetic acid activity may still be going on. Instructions many years ago told the user to allow up to 48 hours for curing, and that was also when it was stated to be safe for aquariums. Lately, and without the claim of being aquarium-safe, they state to allow 24 hours for curing which is not quite enough time for it to be used for fish -- even though when I've been in a rush, I have used an occasional tank after only 24 hours, but I rinsed it thoroughly several times. These sealant formulas which are used for the home aquariums and even by the large aquarium manufacturers are free of any arsenic additives that are used in other silicone sealants designed to prevent mold, and used in bathrooms (sinks, showers and tubs, etc.) and places where there's a lot of moisture. That's the thing one needs to watch out for -- the arsenic additives. As such, they (arsenic-free sealants) are aquarium safe when allowed to cure longer. It would not surprise me if the Dow Aquarium Sealants specifically marketed for this use may recommend allowing it to cure for 48 hours, although I don't use the product so I can't really know. > > I suspect that you may not have allowed the sealant to cure long enough before using. If your Home Hardware stated that their sealant was "aquarium safe," it most probably did not contain any mildew and mold eliminators (arsenic additives) -- unless it's designed for bathroom use -- and so probably was safe for aquariums unless their specific formula possibly contains a higher percentage of acetic acid to help speed up the curing time. There's a good chance that, now that you bought a replacement tank, that you may still be able to use this sealed tank after emptying, rinsing and refilling it. Just check you pH again before using it, but if it's tube's directions says that it can be used for bathrooms, it probably contains arsenic and this sealant would need to be removed and replaced. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! > > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? > > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > > So opinions please.... > > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. > > Sound reasonable? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Al. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55041	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Okay Dawn -- That's good to know. All-Glass always made a good tank, and so Aqueon apparently isd then keeping up with this same quality (same staff, etc,). I wondered what had happened to All-Glass; just like the Python water changers that were not made for a while -- but Aqueon replaced this hole in maintenance equipment products -- Python is back making their original. Hard to keep up with everything. Ray In a message dated 7/1/2013 3:27:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: AllGlass didn't go out of business or discontinue anything, they just changed the product line name to "Aqueon". Same company, same employees. :) Dawn --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Ray" <sevenspringss@...> wrote: > > Al, > > Sorry to hear about your problem with sealing your tank. I know nothing about these "generic" brands of silicone sealant, but I've always stuck to GE Window & Door Sealant, which used to declare that it was aquarium safe but which lately does not state this only because of receiving claims by hobbyists who didn't use it properly. I've recommended this sealant many times, on here and on other Lists. When I contacted GE, they told me that this is still the same formula that was used by the All Glass Aquarium Company, Inc to manufacture all their tanks -- which goes back many decades. I don't believe the All-Glass Aquarium Co is still in business anymore, having discontinued manufacturing just recently, but I could be wrong. > > In any case, most all (if not all) silicone sealants include Methyltriacetoxysilane as their ingredient. Yeah, they all like to used these long fancy names to keep us confused. "Silane" is a hydride, a compound of silicon and hydrogen (SiH4, etc.) which as many of us know by now (if we've used this stuff) gives off quite an odor; essentially it's similar to a hydrocarbon An "Acetoxy(phenyl)" is the chemical function of the curing of the silicone sealant, which smells like strong vinegar -- but which can cause one's eyes to burn, due to this activated form of acetic acid -- the combination of fumes which can cause gagging if breathed. It's better used outdoors. > > Once allowed to completely cure, there is little if any acetic acid residue, although I always rinse out a sealed tank just to make sure. With larger tanks having a much greater combined length of sealed joints, I sometimes fill the tank and drain it after 24 hours just as a precaution even if it's not needed. The main point is that the sealant needs to be completely cured or some acetic acid activity may still be going on. Instructions many years ago told the user to allow up to 48 hours for curing, and that was also when it was stated to be safe for aquariums. Lately, and without the claim of being aquarium-safe, they state to allow 24 hours for curing which is not quite enough time for it to be used for fish -- even though when I've been in a rush, I have used an occasional tank after only 24 hours, but I rinsed it thoroughly several times. These sealant formulas which are used for the home aquariums and even by the large aquarium manufacturers are free of any arsenic additives that are used in other silicone sealants designed to prevent mold, and used in bathrooms (sinks, showers and tubs, etc.) and places where there's a lot of moisture. That's the thing one needs to watch out for -- the arsenic additives. As such, they (arsenic-free sealants) are aquarium safe when allowed to cure longer. It would not surprise me if the Dow Aquarium Sealants specifically marketed for this use may recommend allowing it to cure for 48 hours, although I don't use the product so I can't really know. > > I suspect that you may not have allowed the sealant to cure long enough before using. If your Home Hardware stated that their sealant was "aquarium safe," it most probably did not contain any mildew and mold eliminators (arsenic additives) -- unless it's designed for bathroom use -- and so probably was safe for aquariums unless their specific formula possibly contains a higher percentage of acetic acid to help speed up the curing time. There's a good chance that, now that you bought a replacement tank, that you may still be able to use this sealed tank after emptying, rinsing and refilling it. Just check you pH again before using it, but if it's tube's directions says that it can be used for bathrooms, it probably contains arsenic and this sealant would need to be removed and replaced. > > Ray > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours later.... dead... two hours! > > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware wouldn't lie to me would they? > > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > > So opinions please.... > > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and gravel. > > Sound reasonable? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Al. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55042	From: harry perry	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Fin and tail rot.

I treated with E.M. Erythromycin. Not soon enough. The fish died. There was only one fish in this tank. Do I have to disenfect this tank or can I continue with the E.M. Erythromycin. Thanks Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55043	From: Ray	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.

Harry, Why wouldn't you want to disinfect this tank. Liquid bleach solution costs a lot less than fish medications. Either way, you'll have to recycle the tank again; erythromycin does the same thing to nitrobacters as it does to bacterial pathogens, it's not discriminatory -- it erradicates them. Disinfecting is cheap insurance. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I treated with E.M. Erythromycin. Not soon enough. The fish died. > > There was only one fish in this tank. > > Do I have to disenfect this tank or can I continue with the > E.M. Erythromycin. > > Thanks > > Harry > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55044	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Hi All, I've *b*een following this thread with some interest & looking at some links as I have never heard of a Diatom Filter. Would I be correct in thinking it performs the same or similar function to my water polishing polyester foam that I have in my wet/dry between the media compartment & the return pump compartment? What would a typical application be for one of these filters, type of fish, tank size etc & why? John*<o)))<* On 1 July 2013 02:18, oldies1433 <db1433@...> wrote: > You might give these folks a try: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters > > bill in pa > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy > <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for years > > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that > is. > > I�d love to find one. > > > > Laurie > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > Just wondering. > > > > joe t > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55045	From: harry perry	Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Hi John,     This filter is actually capable of filtering pathogens from the water. This purely mechanical filter uses diatomaceous earth to remove very fine particles from the water. They clog quickly and are only used occasionally as water polishers rather than continuously. It actually goes far beyond polyester foam in filtering. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters Hi All,   I've *b*een following this thread with some interest & looking at some links as I have never heard of a Diatom Filter. Would I be correct in thinking it performs the same or similar function to my water polishing polyester foam that I have in my wet/dry between the media compartment & the return pump compartment? What would a typical application be for one of these filters, type of fish, tank size etc & why?   John*<o)))<* On 1 July 2013 02:18, oldies1433 <db1433@...> wrote: > You might give these folks a try: > http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters > > bill in pa > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy > <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for years > > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that > is. > > I’d love to find one. > > > > Laurie > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > On > > Behalf Of joe t > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > Just wondering. > > > > joe t > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55046	From: oldies1433	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Good Morning John, You would be correct providing this material can remove particles down to 1 Micron. bill in pa On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:34 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...>wrote: > Hi All, > > I've *b*een following this thread with some interest & looking at some > links as I have never heard of a Diatom Filter. Would I be correct in > thinking it performs the same or similar function to my water polishing > polyester foam that I have in my wet/dry between the media compartment & > the return pump compartment? > > What would a typical application be for one of these filters, type of fish, > tank size etc & why? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 1 July 2013 02:18, oldies1433 <db1433@...> wrote: > > > You might give these folks a try: > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy > > <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for > years > > > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that > > is. > > > I�d love to find one. > > > > > > Laurie > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > > > Just wondering. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55047	From: joe t	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Hi John: I personally like this filter. I don't recommend it for a small tank, though, because it would be too powerful. Little fish, especially those that may be weak for some reason would, in all probability, get sucked up to the intake vent. It is, however, a big resource if you have large tanks. It will help with keeping the water looking clear (or polishing the water, as they say) and will help with the capturing of ich, etc. With big tanks, this is a blessing. The cons are that it is a little bit of a fuss to set up and use. Since you do not use it as a "steady" filter, some people have an issue with using it. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I've *b*een following this thread with some interest & looking at some > links as I have never heard of a Diatom Filter. Would I be correct in > thinking it performs the same or similar function to my water polishing > polyester foam that I have in my wet/dry between the media compartment & > the return pump compartment? > > What would a typical application be for one of these filters, type of fish, > tank size etc & why? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 1 July 2013 02:18, oldies1433 <db1433@...> wrote: > > > You might give these folks a try: > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy > > <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for years > > > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning that > > is. > > > I'd love to find one. > > > > > > Laurie > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > On > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > > > Just wondering. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55048	From: Ava	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

This may be long, sorry! So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon buckets. 4. Drain the remaining water from tank 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of planaria 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything right now) 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water 9. Add filter/air/decor 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55049	From: rachell7	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Lighting suggestions please!

What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55050	From: Just Micky	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

If you use a piece of plastic hose I/2 inch by 6 feet or so, It is very easy to siphon out the sand into a five gallon bucket. With daily changes of 50 to 75% dead material and sand are soon gone. Planarians can be removed this way dead or alive. Your ammonia content is most likely too high for fish now. Water quality will improve quickly I removed live bearing snails ,along with the sand, from a well stocked 50 gallon tank this way. Micky -----Original Message----- From: Ava Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:20 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Removing substrate without a cycle crash? This may be long, sorry! So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon buckets. 4. Drain the remaining water from tank 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of planaria 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything right now) 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water 9. Add filter/air/decor 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated! ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55051	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

Thank you, I don't think I will need one of these as my water is clear all the time & as I have a closed group of fish the chances of any pathogens is [hopefully] reduced anyway but very interesting to hear about these filters. John*<o)))<* On 2 July 2013 16:53, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John: > > I personally like this filter. I don't recommend it for a small tank, > though, because it would be too powerful. Little fish, especially those > that may be weak for some reason would, in all probability, get sucked up > to the intake vent. > > It is, however, a big resource if you have large tanks. It will help with > keeping the water looking clear (or polishing the water, as they say) and > will help with the capturing of ich, etc. With big tanks, this is a > blessing. > > The cons are that it is a little bit of a fuss to set up and use. Since > you do not use it as a "steady" filter, some people have an issue with > using it. > > joe t > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I've *b*een following this thread with some interest & looking at some > > links as I have never heard of a Diatom Filter. Would I be correct in > > thinking it performs the same or similar function to my water polishing > > polyester foam that I have in my wet/dry between the media compartment & > > the return pump compartment? > > > > What would a typical application be for one of these filters, type of > fish, > > tank size etc & why? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 1 July 2013 02:18, oldies1433 <db1433@...> wrote: > > > > > You might give these folks a try: > > > http://www.thatpetplace.com/vortex-diatom-filters > > > > > > bill in pa > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Lorraine Murphy > > > <trinityfarms@...>wrote: > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about them the other day. I worked in pet stores for > years > > > > and we used one daily. Moved it from tank to tank. After cleaning > that > > > is. > > > > I'd love to find one. > > > > > > > > Laurie > > > > > > > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto: > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of joe t > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:15 PM > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Diatom Filters > > > > > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > > > > > Just wondering. > > > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , > .���`�..><((((�> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT > important to > > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > > home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post > replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55052	From: Matthew	Date: 7/2/2013
Subject: Re: Diatom Filters

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > Or go to pool supply store to get it they call iy DE. You can get a ten pound bag for 19bucks. > Joe, > > The Vortex brand Diatom Aqarium Filter is still in use by many hobbyists. As it's not normally used continually, this may be why you don't hear as much about it as more conventional types of filters are being used everyday. I'm sure though, that some hobbyists use them as their main filter even though most just use them as "water polishers" or when confronted with a disease -- it will filter out the Ich protozoan. > > As the filter isn't normally put into full time use, it's special diatomaceous earth powder isn't as fast selling, and so some LFS have dropped it from their display shelves. The powder can still be obtained at some of the chain store -- like PetSmart, or from some of the major on-line pet supply houses -- like That Fish Place (which also has a brick & morter store in Lancaster, PA) You can get it at Amazon.com too. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > Ray, and any of you experienced Aquarists: > > > > I have a Diatom Filter for many years now and still use it. Yet > > I don't hear much, if anything, about them anymore. > > > > I have not seen the filtering powder at any stores either. > > > > Are they still being used? If not, any insight as to why? > > > > Just wondering. > > > > > > joe t > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55053	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm surprised she's not fermenting lol! Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! /r Marilynn On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:12 AM, AquaticLife Moderator <AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Hello, > > Welcome to Aquatic Life - the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. ><))))º> > > > To contact the Moderators directly, you can send an email to ~ > > List owner: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com ~ > > > this address is also available at the bottom of the Groups Home page ~ > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > > > Please take a moment to review this message. > > The Aquatic Life group at Yahoo! Groups, is a free, easy-to-use email group service. Whatever your level of interest in Aquatic Life, this is the place to be. Ask questions, share pictures, tell us about your Aquariums and Fish. > > PLEASE introduce yourself and your wet pets to the list. > Remember, this list is for you, an Aquarist. Keep it clean, keep it fun, and keep it to the point. A certain amount of off topic material may be allowed, but let's keep it in hand and try to stay on topic. > > To learn more about the Aquatic Life group, please visit: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to: > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > * PLEASE NOTE: In an effort to prevent SPAM & Viruses, Email attachments are not permitted & Messages from Members Require Approval. > This Means it may take some time for your Posts to be seen in the group while waiting for a Moderators approval. We thank you in advance for your patience and understanding in this matter. > > ~*~ Special Notice - Yahoo no longer stores photos sent in email. If you want your pictures to be seen, please upload them into the Photos section at left and then send an email announcing the new pictures. If you have a website or group with your aquarium photos, please add a link at left. Thank you. ~*~ > > Please, when posting to the list, use a subject header that defines your post so that others who have information to help will be more inclined to help you. > > To set your Message Delivery Preferences for this list, go to the Aquatic Life web site, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ and select the Edit Membership link from the menu bar on the left. Select a display format for any email messages you may receive: Fully Featured or Traditional. This menu will also let you change your subscription between Web Only, Special Notices, Daily Digest and Individual Email. > > We look forward to getting to know you. Thank you for joining us & WELCOME to the Yahoo! Group AquaticLife. > > > * Now on MySpace too! > > http://www.myspace.com/AquaticLifeGroup > > http://groups.myspace.com/AquaticLife > > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/ > > stop by and see ~ membership is free! > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55054	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Python was down for a while... looked like they were going out of business for a bit there, but the owner managed to pull it back together and get them up and running again this past year. I know the owner of Python, he's a friend of mine and we go back many yrs. I talked with him about the company about 6 months ago and he assured me that Python is once again secure and stable and no signs of going under. Aqueon has a pretty good water changer system similar to the Python, but there is nobody else out there who has the same kind of hoses that Python makes... and that rubbery material is patented, so nobody else will ever be able to copy that or come close to the quality of it. I actually prefer the sink hookup for the Aqueon rather than the one from Python, so what I use here at home is a combo of the 2, lol. I use the Aqueon connectors and gravel vac tube on the Python hose and am very happy with it. The sink connector that Aqueon makes is actually a better design than that of the Python and lasts longer without wearing out. Hose diameter on both of them is the same, so they are interchangeable. And yes... no worries about the AllGlass quality... it's still there and going strong just under the new name of Aqueon. Everything is the same, including how the tanks are made, the supplies used to make the tanks, dimensions of the tanks, etc. except that since the name change Aqueon has added to their product list, such as with the creation of the biocube set ups and addition of other equipment such as filters, heaters, etc. The Aqueon products overall are all top notch and I have a house full of it all. I especially like their pro series of heaters... no glass to worry about breaking, and even if it's taken out of the water before being unplugged (something I don't ever recommend due to the potential for burns) it will still work like a champ. There is also no need to let it sit in the water to acclimate to temp before plugging it in, and the price is very reasonable. If you haven't tried their line of fish foods yet I will also encourage that, too. That is all my tropical's eat here and they are thriving on it, from the cichlid pellets to the flake food, even the marine pellets. My African cichlid tank does incredible on a combo of the marine pellets and goldfish pellets, and between those 2 it's a very well balanced diet for them. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Okay Dawn -- That's good to know. All-Glass always made a good tank, and > so Aqueon apparently isd then keeping up with this same quality (same > staff, etc,). I wondered what had happened to All-Glass; just like the Python > water changers that were not made for a while -- but Aqueon replaced this > hole in maintenance equipment products -- Python is back making their > original. Hard to keep up with everything. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 7/1/2013 3:27:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: > > > > > AllGlass didn't go out of business or discontinue anything, they just > changed the product line name to "Aqueon". Same company, same employees. :) > > Dawn > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > "Ray" <sevenspringss@> wrote: > > > > Al, > > > > Sorry to hear about your problem with sealing your tank. I know nothing > about these "generic" brands of silicone sealant, but I've always stuck to > GE Window & Door Sealant, which used to declare that it was aquarium safe > but which lately does not state this only because of receiving claims by > hobbyists who didn't use it properly. I've recommended this sealant many > times, on here and on other Lists. When I contacted GE, they told me that this > is still the same formula that was used by the All Glass Aquarium Company, > Inc to manufacture all their tanks -- which goes back many decades. I don't > believe the All-Glass Aquarium Co is still in business anymore, having > discontinued manufacturing just recently, but I could be wrong. > > > > In any case, most all (if not all) silicone sealants include > Methyltriacetoxysilane as their ingredient. Yeah, they all like to used these long > fancy names to keep us confused. "Silane" is a hydride, a compound of silicon > and hydrogen (SiH4, etc.) which as many of us know by now (if we've used > this stuff) gives off quite an odor; essentially it's similar to a > hydrocarbon An "Acetoxy(phenyl)" is the chemical function of the curing of the > silicone sealant, which smells like strong vinegar -- but which can cause one's > eyes to burn, due to this activated form of acetic acid -- the combination > of fumes which can cause gagging if breathed. It's better used outdoors. > > > > Once allowed to completely cure, there is little if any acetic acid > residue, although I always rinse out a sealed tank just to make sure. With > larger tanks having a much greater combined length of sealed joints, I > sometimes fill the tank and drain it after 24 hours just as a precaution even if > it's not needed. The main point is that the sealant needs to be completely > cured or some acetic acid activity may still be going on. Instructions many > years ago told the user to allow up to 48 hours for curing, and that was > also when it was stated to be safe for aquariums. Lately, and without the > claim of being aquarium-safe, they state to allow 24 hours for curing which is > not quite enough time for it to be used for fish -- even though when I've > been in a rush, I have used an occasional tank after only 24 hours, but I > rinsed it thoroughly several times. These sealant formulas which are used for > the home aquariums and even by the large aquarium manufacturers are free > of any arsenic additives that are used in other silicone sealants designed > to prevent mold, and used in bathrooms (sinks, showers and tubs, etc.) and > places where there's a lot of moisture. That's the thing one needs to watch > out for -- the arsenic additives. As such, they (arsenic-free sealants) are > aquarium safe when allowed to cure longer. It would not surprise me if the > Dow Aquarium Sealants specifically marketed for this use may recommend > allowing it to cure for 48 hours, although I don't use the product so I can't > really know. > > > > I suspect that you may not have allowed the sealant to cure long enough > before using. If your Home Hardware stated that their sealant was "aquarium > safe," it most probably did not contain any mildew and mold eliminators > (arsenic additives) -- unless it's designed for bathroom use -- and so > probably was safe for aquariums unless their specific formula possibly contains a > higher percentage of acetic acid to help speed up the curing time. There's > a good chance that, now that you bought a replacement tank, that you may > still be able to use this sealed tank after emptying, rinsing and refilling > it. Just check you pH again before using it, but if it's tube's directions > says that it can be used for bathrooms, it probably contains arsenic and > this sealant would need to be removed and replaced. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > , "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > Ya more; anyone remember that song from the old Hee Haw t.v. show?.... > the song went "gloom, despair, and agony on me"... sorry if you'll be > singing that the rest of the day now. :-)>>> > > > My little 10 gallon beside the bed; I set it all up perfectly; put a > platy in; two days later... dead. I thought, "well it's cycling, and the > poor dear may not have been the best stock. Well strike one. > > > Off I go to my not so l.f.s. In goes the next victim; and two hours > later.... dead... two hours! > > > Hmmmm; "I'll test the things it shouldn't be", I think. > > > I get to the P.H. of my water that has always exited the tap perfectly > neutral, and bingo, unbelievably acidic. > > > I was at a loss, scratching my head for a couple days, when I wonder > if, no it couldn't be, but no, it says in big letters on the tube of > silicone that I used, "Aquarium safe" So that couldn't be it, Home Hardware > wouldn't lie to me would they? > > > So I get out my magnifying glass for the small print... > > > "contains methyltriacetoxy silane" ... on to the google I go... > > > As it turns out, when that stuff is in water, it releases acetic acid, > and is toxic to fish. Thanks a lot Home Hardware; good luck to me getting > any money back for expenses, or even getting them to admit they are full of > it; a big chain like that.... and the tube only says "made for them." > > > So opinions please.... > > > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the > fish. > > > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > > > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just replace the tank, and rinse > out the filter and gravel. > > > Sound reasonable? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55055	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.

I agree with Ray 100% on everything he said. Fin rot is usually both bacterial (gram negative AND gram positive both) and fungal infections together, so disinfecting the tank with a bleach water solution will help to ensure that the next fish are safe. Erythromycin can be great to eradicate gram negative bacteria, but will do little to nothing for gram positive bacteria, and it will do nothing for fungus, either. As Ray said, disinfecting the tank is a cheap insurance policy. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I treated with E.M. Erythromycin. Not soon enough. The fish died. > > There was only one fish in this tank. > > Do I have to disenfect this tank or can I continue with the > E.M. Erythromycin. > > Thanks > > Harry > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55056	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

I would have to agree with Micky. A siphon hose to remove the sand makes the most sense, the least amount of work, and makes it much safer for the animals. In regards to cycling, keep in mind that a sand bed is very dense so the amount of nitrifying bacteria found in a sand bed is very little aside from the actual surface of the sand itself. It's too dense for oxygen to penetrate beyond 1/4 inch or less of depth, and would instead, harbor denitrifying bacteria (which feed on nitrate). Once the sand is removed, along with all the organic waste built up in/on it, the food for the planaria will dwindle and you can starve them out this way, while doing some daily water changes over the course of 2 - 3 wks to help remove them as you see them. You can also use the siphon hose to suck planeria off of the plants and decor as well if you wanted... or you can remove them and rinse in the water you are taking out with each water change to help preserve bacteria culture on them and still being able to wipe/scrub them a bit in the dirty water. Just be diligent with water testing through the process and be prepared to do some small water changes if you notice any spikes in ammonia or nitrite. That should keep your axy's safe until the tank stabilizes again. With this method, that shouldn't take very long. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > This may be long, sorry! > > So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: > 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. > 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. > 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon buckets. > 4. Drain the remaining water from tank > 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot > 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of planaria > 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything right now) > 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water > 9. Add filter/air/decor > 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank > 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily > > Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55057	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

I use LED over my reef tank, but let me warn you... LED lighting is not all created equal and it is still rather new. A lot of the LED fixtures, especially those being designed for freshwater tanks, is crap. Not only do many of the fixtures out there not provide sufficient lighting for live plants in freshwater or corals in saltwater, but most of them also lack the proper reflectors and the LED's are spaced so that they only shine a strip of light down through the center of the tank... leaving the rest of the tank too shaded to grow anything under it. If this were my tank, being 10 gallon, I would opt for the fluorescent fixture without question... especially if it's freshwater. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > Rachell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55058	From: Ray	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Fin and tail rot.

Harry, Getting back on this thread in which you unsuccessfully treated this one isolated fish, there are numerous occasions when I may not pay attention to the Subject line, but go right to the meat of the text. When I first read your post, I wasn't aware of what issue you were treating this fish for as you said nothing concerning the disease in your text. I only first knew of what disease this was when Dawn mentioned it in her post. Yes, I suppose reading the Subject line always helps (LOL), but I dismissed looking further seeing that this was after the fact, in that the fish had died, and there was no way to reverse that; I focused on you question of how best to continue using this tank. Now realizing that you were treating against Fin & Tail Rot, it may not have been a case in which you were too late in treating. Erythromycin, as good as it is, is NOT the medication of choice in treating against Fin & Tail Rot. I'm a bit surprised that if you were at all in question as to what to use, that you didn't at least refer to the archives. Some of us have outlined in the past, just what medications are to be used for this disease. Fin & Tail Rot is mainly a bacterial issue, but since fungus is an opportunist secondary disease that attacks damaged and dying tissue after bacteria have invaded, this often accompanies the bacterial pathogen. Erythromycin is an antibiotic (bacticide) and not a broad-spectrum one at that, and will not adversely affect fungus. Medications of choice would be either Jungle's Fungus Eliminator (or Jungle's Fungus Clear), or Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Furan 2 -- all containing both Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone. And don't be mislead by the word "Fungus" in the label's description; these two ingredients are some of the best in treating against broad-spectrum bacterial issues. Continuing with Erythromycin would do absolutely nothing in eliminating this disease. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I agree with Ray 100% on everything he said. Fin rot is usually both bacterial (gram negative AND gram positive both) and fungal infections together, so disinfecting the tank with a bleach water solution will help to ensure that the next fish are safe. Erythromycin can be great to eradicate gram negative bacteria, but will do little to nothing for gram positive bacteria, and it will do nothing for fungus, either. As Ray said, disinfecting the tank is a cheap insurance policy. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > I treated with E.M. Erythromycin. Not soon enough. The fish died. > > > > There was only one fish in this tank. > > > > Do I have to disenfect this tank or can I continue with the > > E.M. Erythromycin. > > > > Thanks > > > > Harry > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55059	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Hi Marilynn, Welcome to the forum. I also have a custom made acrylic tank for my streamlined Goldfish, a long 100 gallon affair. What size is your tank going to be & are you incorporating any unusual features? The great thing about acrylic tanks is that unlike glass there is no seams to worry about & the whole tank is one piece. John*<o)))<* On 3 July 2013 08:30, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have a > husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm surprised she's > not fermenting lol! > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic tank > they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of them in a > year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! > > /r > Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:12 AM, AquaticLife Moderator < > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > Welcome to Aquatic Life - the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. ><))))º> > > > > > > To contact the Moderators directly, you can send an email to ~ > > > > List owner: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com ~ > > > > > > this address is also available at the bottom of the Groups Home page ~ > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > > > > > > Please take a moment to review this message. > > > > The Aquatic Life group at Yahoo! Groups, is a free, easy-to-use email > group service. Whatever your level of interest in Aquatic Life, this is the > place to be. Ask questions, share pictures, tell us about your Aquariums > and Fish. > > > > PLEASE introduce yourself and your wet pets to the list. > > Remember, this list is for you, an Aquarist. Keep it clean, keep it fun, > and keep it to the point. A certain amount of off topic material may be > allowed, but let's keep it in hand and try to stay on topic. > > > > To learn more about the Aquatic Life group, please visit: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to: > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > * PLEASE NOTE: In an effort to prevent SPAM & Viruses, Email attachments > are not permitted & Messages from Members Require Approval. > > This Means it may take some time for your Posts to be seen in the group > while waiting for a Moderators approval. We thank you in advance for your > patience and understanding in this matter. > > > > ~*~ Special Notice - Yahoo no longer stores photos sent in email. If you > want your pictures to be seen, please upload them into the Photos section > at left and then send an email announcing the new pictures. If you have a > website or group with your aquarium photos, please add a link at left. > Thank you. ~*~ > > > > Please, when posting to the list, use a subject header that defines your > post so that others who have information to help will be more inclined to > help you. > > > > To set your Message Delivery Preferences for this list, go to the > Aquatic Life web site, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ and > select the Edit Membership link from the menu bar on the left. Select a > display format for any email messages you may receive: Fully Featured or > Traditional. This menu will also let you change your subscription between > Web Only, Special Notices, Daily Digest and Individual Email. > > > > We look forward to getting to know you. Thank you for joining us & > WELCOME to the Yahoo! Group AquaticLife. > > > > > > * Now on MySpace too! > > > > http://www.myspace.com/AquaticLifeGroup > > > > http://groups.myspace.com/AquaticLife > > > > > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you! > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/ > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is free! > > > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55060	From: Ray	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

Hi Ava, As both Micky and Dawn suggest, syphoning the sand out of the tank is by far the easiest way of removing it. If you're not used to syphoning (and you don't want a mouthful of Planaria -- dead or alive), just submerse the entire hose under water, filling it completely. Then, making sure to keep one end of the hose under water without getting air in it, hold your thumb over the other end and pull it over the top of the tank, lowering it to your buckets near the floor; the syphon will automatially start. Getting to the part of your saving half the water. before removing the sand, THIS would be the time to test the water -- mainly for its ammonia, but also for its pH. There's no sense in necessarily saving four 5 gallon buckets of water, only to find out afterwards that it's high in ammonia. As the sand has been difficult to keep clean, and as you have a gross Planaria problem, I can't imagine your water quality is that good. While you definitely need to save a portion of this old aquarium water -- to prevent any stress on the Axolotis if your tap water is far different -- the amount of it to be saved depends directly on its present parameters, and you don't know what they are at this time or you wouldn't anticipate testing it. If your tank water is only moderate in ammonia (and your pH will tell you if it's still safe -- with a higher pH indicating the ammonia will be more toxic), you may save this 20 gallons of tank water, with the remaining 20 gallons coming from the tap after refilling as this would be like a 50% PWC (partial water change). If you find your ammonia level is high, then save only two or perhaps three buckets of the old tank water. If you're in doubt, take the pH and ammonia tests now and post them to us for evaluation. We'll tell you the amount of old water that's prudent to keep. Also tell us your tap water's pH. While it may change if left overnight, it will still give us some idea of the pH level it's starting at now. Now, getting to one of your main concerns, that of saving your cycle, please know that most of your nitrifying bacteria reside in your filter, and while you're going to keep this filter in a 5 gallon bucket, you'll need to keep it running to ensure oxygenated water is constantly flowing past them if this whole tank cleaning project is going to take an extended period of time. Even then, unless your tank water has a moderate amount of ammonia, without further input of new ammonia by the Axolotis, these bacteria may start to starve if the project takes longer than expected -- unless you can put the filter in this temporary container housing the axolotis. Before adding the filter back to the tank after it's set up again, be sure to clean it of any live or dead Planaria you can, in that same bucket of old tank water. All of the interior tank surfaces obviously have nitrifying bacteria growing on them, and while the filter contains more nitrifying bacteria by far, these interior surfaces can still harbor a substantial amount of these good bacteria, so you can expect at least a mini-cycle to one degree or another. As Dawn points out, nitrifying bacteria will not inhabit the substrate any lower than about 1/2" below it's surface -- and probably more like only 1/4" on sand. As the surface of a layer of sand is not as smooth as the surface of the glass panes of the tank's sides and ends -- which you'll need to wipe free of Planaria as a necessity (also removing part of the bacteria there) -- its relatively rough surface of grains will actually comprise an area up to 3 times the area of the tank bottom itself, and holding a considerable amount of beneficial bacteria. Unless you remove and replace (with new) half the sand now and the other half about a week to 10 days from now, you might expect a substantial "mini-cycle," AND, this is also dependant on your tank's pH right now as few to no bacteria species of any kind do as well in acid water (except perhaps for anaerobic types). I doubt that there's any way you could replace only half the sand at a time though in this case, as it would be impossible to keep everything else free of Planaria. You may want to keep a small container of Tetra's "Safe Start" on hand to supplement your nitrobacters after replacing all the sand and refilling the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > This may be long, sorry! > > So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: > 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. > 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. > 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon buckets. > 4. Drain the remaining water from tank > 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot > 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of planaria > 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything right now) > 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water > 9. Add filter/air/decor > 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank > 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily > > Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated! >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55061	From: Suzi	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Hi Marilynn, Welcome to the group. *Suzi* http://www.flickr.com/photos/puppykisses/ "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." -- Eleanor Roosevelt, This is My Story On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio < mlambinicio@...> wrote: > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have a > husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm surprised she's > not fermenting lol! > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic tank > they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of them in a > year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! > > /r > Marilynn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55062	From: Ava	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

Thanks a ton, guys! --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I would have to agree with Micky. A siphon hose to remove the sand makes the most sense, the least amount of work, and makes it much safer for the animals. In regards to cycling, keep in mind that a sand bed is very dense so the amount of nitrifying bacteria found in a sand bed is very little aside from the actual surface of the sand itself. It's too dense for oxygen to penetrate beyond 1/4 inch or less of depth, and would instead, harbor denitrifying bacteria (which feed on nitrate). Once the sand is removed, along with all the organic waste built up in/on it, the food for the planaria will dwindle and you can starve them out this way, while doing some daily water changes over the course of 2 - 3 wks to help remove them as you see them. You can also use the siphon hose to suck planeria off of the plants and decor as well if you wanted... or you can remove them and rinse in the water you are taking out with each water change to help preserve bacteria culture on them and still being able to wipe/scrub them a bit in the dirty water. > > Just be diligent with water testing through the process and be prepared to do some small water changes if you notice any spikes in ammonia or nitrite. That should keep your axy's safe until the tank stabilizes again. With this method, that shouldn't take very long. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > This may be long, sorry! > > > > So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: > > 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. > > 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. > > 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon buckets. > > 4. Drain the remaining water from tank > > 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot > > 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of planaria > > 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything right now) > > 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water > > 9. Add filter/air/decor > > 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank > > 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily > > > > Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated! > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55063	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

Hi Rachell, It doesn't surprise me to hear from Dawn that the LED lighting is not all it is cracked up to be. I've used LED lighting in non-fish applications & found that it it almost always under performs to the manufacturer's claims when compared to traditional lighting methods so it really doesn't surprise me to hear from Dawn that the aquatic LED lighting is not all it is cracked up to be. That said I do have some blue moonlight LEDs on my tank but their only function is to look nice for a few hours between the main lights going off & the tank in full darkness for the night. Incandescent lighting can seriously increase the temperature of your tank water, especially in small tank & when the lights are left on all day or en for more than a few hours & this can cause a lot of problems for your fish. In the case of Carps [& probably many other freshwater fish] they don't need specific tank lighting at all & are quite happy in ambient room light. You do need lights when you have live plants & this is where you need to strike a balance between giving the plants light to grow nicely & not heating up your water unnecessarily. I have 2 free-standing lighting units on my tank each with a pair of 39" T5 bulbs. In each unit one bulb is a regular while light & the other is a pink tropical light, I find this is quite good to replicate the natural spectrum for my plants & also gives a pleasant subtle cast to the tank rather than a harsh brightness. My lights are set to come on early afternoon & go off at 10 in the evening, after which the blue LEDs cut in for a further 3 hours until total darkness at 1am. The plants I have are Vallis, Hornwort & Anacharis-they all do well with the ambient room light in the mornings together with the 8 hours 'sunlight' in the afternoon. My tank is large enough to not be noticeably affected by the lights being on & also T5s kick out less heat than comparable T8s, the only drawback is they cost a little more but as I only change them once a year that is not a big deal really. John*<o)))<* On 2 July 2013 21:01, rachell7 <rachell7@...> wrote: > ** > > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the > original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more > often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter > but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, > to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon > tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about > changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I > believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > Rachell > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55064	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Removing substrate without a cycle crash?

Hi Ava, I don't know anything about Axolotls but I can also confirm that siphoning out the sand works great, I used to have very tiny almost sandy gravel until I removed it all about 18 months ago & replaced it with a larger size. Vacuuming it out works a treat! John*<o)))<* On 3 July 2013 13:37, Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks a ton, guys! > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > I would have to agree with Micky. A siphon hose to remove the sand makes > the most sense, the least amount of work, and makes it much safer for the > animals. In regards to cycling, keep in mind that a sand bed is very dense > so the amount of nitrifying bacteria found in a sand bed is very little > aside from the actual surface of the sand itself. It's too dense for oxygen > to penetrate beyond 1/4 inch or less of depth, and would instead, harbor > denitrifying bacteria (which feed on nitrate). Once the sand is removed, > along with all the organic waste built up in/on it, the food for the > planaria will dwindle and you can starve them out this way, while doing > some daily water changes over the course of 2 - 3 wks to help remove them > as you see them. You can also use the siphon hose to suck planeria off of > the plants and decor as well if you wanted... or you can remove them and > rinse in the water you are taking out with each water change to help > preserve bacteria culture on them and still being able to wipe/scrub them a > bit in the dirty water. > > > > Just be diligent with water testing through the process and be prepared > to do some small water changes if you notice any spikes in ammonia or > nitrite. That should keep your axy's safe until the tank stabilizes again. > With this method, that shouldn't take very long. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@> wrote: > > > > > > This may be long, sorry! > > > > > > So, I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with axolotls (aquatic > salamanders) in there. I have sand as a substrate. It's become way too > difficult to keep up with the cleaning, and I've gotten a TON of planaria > in there because I can't keep up with the waste that's harboring in the > sand. A lot of axolotl owners have their tank bare bottomed to avoid this, > so I wanted to take my sand out. However, I'm concerned about my cycle > crashing because of it. I was thinking about going about it this way: > > > 1. Buy a large, shallow container and put my axolotls in there with > their current tank water for temporary housing, and add a screen top. > > > 2. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with current tank water, add filter and > aeration, with as many decorations as I can fit in there, keep filter and > air running. I have a biowheel, I hope this helps. > > > 3. Take as many buckets of water as possible and fill with current > tank water. I'm hoping to save at least half the water with 4 5gallon > buckets. > > > 4. Drain the remaining water from tank > > > 5. Use a small shovel and remove sand from tank, use a vacuum or > turkey baster to remove what shovel cannot > > > 6. Take a magnet cleaner and wipe the walls of the tank free of > planaria > > > 7. Rinse but NOT scrub decor (there's dead planaria on everything > right now) > > > 8. Add old water and new dechlorinated water > > > 9. Add filter/air/decor > > > 10. Test water, add axolotls back into tank > > > 11. Test water daily, and do small water changes daily > > > > > > Do you think this method will help save my cycle? This tank is filthy > and I can't seem to keep up with it having sand. Any advice is appreciated! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55065	From: Patrick	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > What do you use for lighting in your tank? I use various types of fluorescent on all my tanks. > My 10 gallon still has the original hood with incandescent light So what is your budget for a new light? And what do you keep in your tank? Any live plants or just animals only? One option is to use screw in fluorescent lamps instead of an incandescent lamp. However it might be a bit of a tight squeeze and sometimes it is hard to find nice aquarium complimentary lamps in that form factor (in other words, you can find lots of cool white and warm whites which may not look good over the tank). If you do go with a new light, next decision is do you want to stick with a full hood? Or do you want to switch over to a glass cover with a strip light on top? Or you can hang a light over the tank or get one that sits up on the tank with some sort of legs. In those last two cases you can then run the tank open if you wanted, but only if you don't have jumping fish. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55066	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Hi John! Thank you! I'm getting a 20 gallon split tank for my bettas. It'll be acrylic with rounded edges & Im having it flame polished. I've also put in for a stand that can hold a small sump for it because I'd like all my equipment down below. As of right now, I'm trying to figure out what sort of top I'd like on it, because it will be a planted aquarium so I will need it to possibly hold special lightning needs but I'd like everything stream lined, I'm a minimalist. So just throwing ideas around until I figure out my lid preference then ill have them get started on it ASAP. /Marilynn On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:51 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > Hi Marilynn, > > Welcome to the forum. I also have a custom made acrylic tank for my > streamlined Goldfish, a long 100 gallon affair. What size is your tank > going to be & are you incorporating any unusual features? The great thing > about acrylic tanks is that unlike glass there is no seams to worry about & > the whole tank is one piece. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 3 July 2013 08:30, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have a > > husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm surprised she's > > not fermenting lol! > > > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic tank > > they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of them in a > > year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! > > > > /r > > Marilynn > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:12 AM, AquaticLife Moderator < > > AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Welcome to Aquatic Life - the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. ><))))º> > > > > > > > > > To contact the Moderators directly, you can send an email to ~ > > > > > > List owner: AquaticLife-owner@yahoogroups.com ~ > > > > > > > > > this address is also available at the bottom of the Groups Home page ~ > > > > > > http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ > > > > > > > > > Please take a moment to review this message. > > > > > > The Aquatic Life group at Yahoo! Groups, is a free, easy-to-use email > > group service. Whatever your level of interest in Aquatic Life, this is the > > place to be. Ask questions, share pictures, tell us about your Aquariums > > and Fish. > > > > > > PLEASE introduce yourself and your wet pets to the list. > > > Remember, this list is for you, an Aquarist. Keep it clean, keep it fun, > > and keep it to the point. A certain amount of off topic material may be > > allowed, but let's keep it in hand and try to stay on topic. > > > > > > To learn more about the Aquatic Life group, please visit: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife > > > > > > To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to: > > > > > > AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > * PLEASE NOTE: In an effort to prevent SPAM & Viruses, Email attachments > > are not permitted & Messages from Members Require Approval. > > > This Means it may take some time for your Posts to be seen in the group > > while waiting for a Moderators approval. We thank you in advance for your > > patience and understanding in this matter. > > > > > > ~*~ Special Notice - Yahoo no longer stores photos sent in email. If you > > want your pictures to be seen, please upload them into the Photos section > > at left and then send an email announcing the new pictures. If you have a > > website or group with your aquarium photos, please add a link at left. > > Thank you. ~*~ > > > > > > Please, when posting to the list, use a subject header that defines your > > post so that others who have information to help will be more inclined to > > help you. > > > > > > To set your Message Delivery Preferences for this list, go to the > > Aquatic Life web site, at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/ and > > select the Edit Membership link from the menu bar on the left. Select a > > display format for any email messages you may receive: Fully Featured or > > Traditional. This menu will also let you change your subscription between > > Web Only, Special Notices, Daily Digest and Individual Email. > > > > > > We look forward to getting to know you. Thank you for joining us & > > WELCOME to the Yahoo! Group AquaticLife. > > > > > > > > > * Now on MySpace too! > > > > > > http://www.myspace.com/AquaticLifeGroup > > > > > > http://groups.myspace.com/AquaticLife > > > > > > > > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > > > > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you! > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FishTankPics/ > > > > > > stop by and see ~ membership is free! > > > > > > .·´¯´`·.¸¸.><((((º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><))))º> .·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55067	From: morningstar1576	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: new here

hi I just got a male betta fish today... I've had them before and love them...

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55068	From: Amber	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, but so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any cleaning of the sides). I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. Amber On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > surprised she's not fermenting lol! > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! > > /r > Marilynn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55069	From: Amber	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

I think they can make a built in "lid" out of acrylic too, they do that with most salt water tanks, and leave spots you can open as needed to get to the fish/tank and feed the fish. I've watched more than a few episodes of Tanked, LOL. You could have a single light fixture that hangs over the top of the tank, I recommend CFL or Fluorescent bulbs personally, I prefer the CFL bulbs, but they can be expensive to replace if you get the tube CFL (not the spiral ones you can get at most big box stores that screw into a normal light socket, but they work very well for planted tanks too if you want them). Amber On 7/3/2013 10:14 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > Hi John! Thank you! I'm getting a 20 gallon split tank for my bettas. > It'll be acrylic with rounded edges & Im having it flame polished. > I've also put in for a stand that can hold a small sump for it because > I'd like all my equipment down below. As of right now, I'm trying to > figure out what sort of top I'd like on it, because it will be a > planted aquarium so I will need it to possibly hold special lightning > needs but I'd like everything stream lined, I'm a minimalist. So just > throwing ideas around until I figure out my lid preference then ill > have them get started on it ASAP. > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:51 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@... > <mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com>> wrote: > > > Hi Marilynn, > > > > Welcome to the forum. I also have a custom made acrylic tank for my > > streamlined Goldfish, a long 100 gallon affair. What size is your tank > > going to be & are you incorporating any unusual features? The great > thing > > about acrylic tanks is that unlike glass there is no seams to worry > about & > > the whole tank is one piece. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > On 3 July 2013 08:30, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > > <mlambinicio@... <mailto:mlambinicio%40ymail.com>>wrote: > > > > > ** > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55070	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here

Hi Im new too, welcome! Betta are my fav fresh water fish. Very beautiful! /Marilynn On Jul 3, 2013, at 1:22 PM, "morningstar1576" <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > hi I just got a male betta fish today... I've had them before and love them... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55071	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going make it richly planted! Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - there are some excellent breeders over there! Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) /Marilynn On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic > tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic > tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, but > so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any cleaning > of the sides). > I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes > smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've > recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in > 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm > hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. > > Amber > > On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > > a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > > surprised she's not fermenting lol! > > > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > > tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > > them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next hear! > > > > /r > > Marilynn > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55072	From: Suzi	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here

I have a Betta that I've had for close to 2yrs. *Sent from Suzi's cellphone* On Jul 3, 2013 2:51 PM, "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" < mlambinicio@...> wrote: > Hi Im new too, welcome! Betta are my fav fresh water fish. Very beautiful! > > /Marilynn > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 1:22 PM, "morningstar1576" <morningstar1576@...> > wrote: > > > hi I just got a male betta fish today... I've had them before and love > them... > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55073	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: new here

Ya mine too will post pics soon Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio <mlambinicio@...> wrote: >Hi Im new too, welcome! Betta are my fav fresh water fish. Very beautiful! > >/Marilynn > > >On Jul 3, 2013, at 1:22 PM, "morningstar1576" <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > >> hi I just got a male betta fish today... I've had them before and love them... >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55074	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: My photo of my new betta

Here hes a blue hes in a 1 gallon tank Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55075	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

My method to clean acrylic is to use a regular magnetic algae magnet with BiOrb pads in between the tank & the magnet both inside & out. These come in packs of 3 & can be quite expensive from your LFS but are all over eBay & very cheap. I use then again & again, they last ages & the abrasive side is perfectly safe even using it by hand & applying some pressure for those stubborn bits of green dot algae. I've been using these for nearly 5 years now & the acrylic is as clear & sparkly as the day it was made. John*<o)))<* On 3 July 2013 20:47, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right they > scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than > with the magnetic floating brushes. > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, > ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like company > & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going make > it richly planted! > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > /Marilynn > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > > Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic > > tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic > > tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, but > > so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any cleaning > > of the sides). > > I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes > > smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've > > recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in > > 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm > > hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. > > > > Amber > > > > On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > > > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > > > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > > > a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > > > surprised she's not fermenting lol! > > > > > > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > > > tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > > > them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > > > > > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next > hear! > > > > > > /r > > > Marilynn > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55076	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

When I had a problem with silicone, I reused the gravel and filter and all was fine. I also salvaged the tank I just scraped off the bad silicone and replaced it with silicone made by All-Glass. That was several years ago fish are fine. Look for 100% silicone. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Keep Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:03 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More slaughter. :-(>>> Charles. I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 days.... and said that buying a new tank is not a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. Read the posts before answering please... I have stated that I will just replace it... and still nobody has yet given their opinion about the gravel and or filter being tainted... Read the post... don't jump to conclusions about the question being asked, or the intelligence of the one asking it. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , Charles Harrison <charles@...> wrote: > > Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the > Silicone Sealant time to cure. > > All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, > the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which > reacts with water (moisture in the air) to > release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and > harden. They cure from the surface down into the > deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the > reaction to take place before trusting the > structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on > how deep the application more than 48 hours may > not be enough. We can smell a few parts per > million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone > is a very good indication of when complete curing > is done. > > Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor > is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass > structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 > days one can fill the tank and check the pH if > there remains a question. If it is very low, > dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in > the water. Give it another day and refill it. > > Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor > anymore. There are many organic compounds which > inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible > with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly > into the surface of the cured sealant and thus > can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. > > Look in the hardware stores for the standard > Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything > about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price > for the same thing at the LFS. > > Charles H > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > Change as much water as often as you can! > Charles Harrison in St Louis > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I > >can make it there, the old one is dead to me > >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it > >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a > >complete water change; I was just looking for > >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess > >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John > >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter > >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and > >hope for the best. > >Al. > > > > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the fish. > >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get more. > >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just > >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and > >>gravel. > >> > Sound reasonable? > >> > > >> > Thanks. > >> > > > > Al. > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55077	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Sweet! Ill look into that for my own tank. At the aquarium they don't use them because some ppl can be careless & substrate sometimes get between the acrylic & the scrub & scratch up the acrylic. But I think when you're at home & it's yours & you worked hard for it you have a large appreciation for it & you're careful. Sometimes volunteers from different backgrounds don't care as much as they should & the aquarium suffers. Although I may start off with just a hand sponge myself until I feel more confident. /Marilynn On Jul 3, 2013, at 6:37 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > My method to clean acrylic is to use a regular magnetic algae magnet with > BiOrb pads in between the tank & the magnet both inside & out. These come > in packs of 3 & can be quite expensive from your LFS but are all over eBay > & very cheap. I use then again & again, they last ages & the abrasive side > is perfectly safe even using it by hand & applying some pressure for those > stubborn bits of green dot algae. I've been using these for nearly 5 years > now & the acrylic is as clear & sparkly as the day it was made. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 3 July 2013 20:47, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right they >> scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than >> with the magnetic floating brushes. >> >> I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, >> ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like company >> & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going make >> it richly planted! >> >> Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank >> cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - >> there are some excellent breeders over there! >> >> Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) >> >> /Marilynn >> >> >> On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: >> >>> Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic >>> tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic >>> tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, but >>> so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any cleaning >>> of the sides). >>> I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes >>> smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've >>> recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in >>> 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm >>> hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. >>> >>> Amber >>> >>> On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have >>>> husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have >>>> a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm >>>> surprised she's not fermenting lol! >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic >>>> tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of >>>> them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. >>>> >>>> I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next >> hear! >>>> >>>> /r >>>> Marilynn >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55078	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Thanks Donna; that's comforting that all will probably be fine. I'll just grab a new tank, when I get into the city next... the old one is dead to me, and they're only $20. :-)>>> There's a kid down the street that's into hamsters and other critters, I'm sure she can find a use for it. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > When I had a problem with silicone, I reused the gravel and filter and all > was fine. > > > > I also salvaged the tank I just scraped off the bad silicone and replaced it > with silicone made by All-Glass. > > > > That was several years ago fish are fine. > > > > Look for 100% silicone. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:03 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More slaughter. :-(>>> > > > > > > Charles. > > I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 days.... and said that buying a > new tank is not a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. > Read the posts before answering please... I have stated that I will just > replace it... and still nobody has yet given their opinion about the gravel > and or filter being tainted... Read the post... don't jump to conclusions > about the question being asked, or the intelligence of the one asking it. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the > > Silicone Sealant time to cure. > > > > All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, > > the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which > > reacts with water (moisture in the air) to > > release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and > > harden. They cure from the surface down into the > > deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the > > reaction to take place before trusting the > > structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on > > how deep the application more than 48 hours may > > not be enough. We can smell a few parts per > > million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone > > is a very good indication of when complete curing > > is done. > > > > Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor > > is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass > > structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 > > days one can fill the tank and check the pH if > > there remains a question. If it is very low, > > dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in > > the water. Give it another day and refill it. > > > > Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor > > anymore. There are many organic compounds which > > inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible > > with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly > > into the surface of the cured sealant and thus > > can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. > > > > Look in the hardware stores for the standard > > Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything > > about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price > > for the same thing at the LFS. > > > > Charles H > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > > > >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I > > >can make it there, the old one is dead to me > > >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it > > >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a > > >complete water change; I was just looking for > > >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess > > >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John > > >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter > > >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and > > >hope for the best. > > >Al. > > > > > > > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the > fish. > > >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get > more. > > >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just > > >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and > > >>gravel. > > >> > Sound reasonable? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks. > > >> > > > > > Al. > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55079	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Hi Al, Just a reminder -- Petco has a tank sale going on; $1 per gallon (up to 55 gallons). That will save you $10 if they have a store near you, Ray In a message dated 7/3/2013 9:13:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al_keep_fish@... writes: Thanks Donna; that's comforting that all will probably be fine. I'll just grab a new tank, when I get into the city next... the old one is dead to me, and they're only $20. :-)>>> There's a kid down the street that's into hamsters and other critters, I'm sure she can find a use for it. Al. --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > When I had a problem with silicone, I reused the gravel and filter and all > was fine. > > > > I also salvaged the tank…I just scraped off the bad silicone and replaced it > with silicone made by All-Glass. > > > > That was several years ago…fish are fine. > > > > Look for 100% silicone. > > > > _____ > > From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ] On > Behalf Of Al Keep > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:03 PM > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More slaughter. :-(>>> > > > > > > Charles. > > I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 days.... and said that buying a > new tank is not a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. > Read the posts before answering please... I have stated that I will just > replace it... and still nobody has yet given their opinion about the gravel > and or filter being tainted... Read the post... don't jump to conclusions > about the question being asked, or the intelligence of the one asking it. > > Al. > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the > > Silicone Sealant time to cure. > > > > All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, > > the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which > > reacts with water (moisture in the air) to > > release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and > > harden. They cure from the surface down into the > > deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the > > reaction to take place before trusting the > > structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on > > how deep the application more than 48 hours may > > not be enough. We can smell a few parts per > > million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone > > is a very good indication of when complete curing > > is done. > > > > Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor > > is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass > > structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 > > days one can fill the tank and check the pH if > > there remains a question. If it is very low, > > dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in > > the water. Give it another day and refill it. > > > > Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor > > anymore. There are many organic compounds which > > inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible > > with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly > > into the surface of the cured sealant and thus > > can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. > > > > Look in the hardware stores for the standard > > Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything > > about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price > > for the same thing at the LFS. > > > > Charles H > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > > > >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I > > >can make it there, the old one is dead to me > > >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it > > >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a > > >complete water change; I was just looking for > > >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess > > >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John > > >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter > > >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and > > >hope for the best. > > >Al. > > > > > > > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and the > fish. > > >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get > more. > > >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just > > >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and > > >>gravel. > > >> > Sound reasonable? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks. > > >> > > > > > Al. > > -- > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55080	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: More slaughter. :-(>>>

Thanks Ray, that's a good deal, but I don't think we have them in Canada; I've never heard of one. Petsmart is about our biggest pet store chain. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Hi Al, > > Just a reminder -- Petco has a tank sale going on; $1 per gallon (up to 55 > gallons). That will save you $10 if they have a store near you, > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 7/3/2013 9:13:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > al_keep_fish@... writes: > > > > > Thanks Donna; that's comforting that all will probably be fine. > I'll just grab a new tank, when I get into the city next... the old one is > dead to me, and they're only $20. :-)>>> > There's a kid down the street that's into hamsters and other critters, I'm > sure she can find a use for it. > > Al. > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > When I had a problem with silicone, I reused the gravel and filter and > all > > was fine. > > > > > > > > I also salvaged the tank…I just scraped off the bad silicone and > replaced it > > with silicone made by All-Glass. > > > > > > > > That was several years ago…fish are fine. > > > > > > > > Look for 100% silicone. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > [mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > ] On > > Behalf Of Al Keep > > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:03 PM > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: More slaughter. :-(>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles. > > > > I DID state that I let it cure for about 4 days.... and said that buying > a > > new tank is not a big deal... I mean $20 yippe. > > Read the posts before answering please... I have stated that I will just > > replace it... and still nobody has yet given their opinion about the > gravel > > and or filter being tainted... Read the post... don't jump to conclusions > > about the question being asked, or the intelligence of the one asking it. > > > > Al. > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > > Charles Harrison <charles@> wrote: > > > > > > Al, you jumped to conclusions and didn't give the > > > Silicone Sealant time to cure. > > > > > > All of the Silicone sealers on the market today, > > > the RTV ones, are a compound of Silicone which > > > reacts with water (moisture in the air) to > > > release Acetic Acid and as they do, they cure and > > > harden. They cure from the surface down into the > > > deepest fill. Time must be allowed for the > > > reaction to take place before trusting the > > > structure or bond of the polymer. Depending on > > > how deep the application more than 48 hours may > > > not be enough. We can smell a few parts per > > > million Acetic Acid in the air so the scent alone > > > is a very good indication of when complete curing > > > is done. > > > > > > Acetic Acid evaporates away rapidly but the vapor > > > is heaver than air so it is best to let the glass > > > structure to setup up side down. after 3 or 4 > > > days one can fill the tank and check the pH if > > > there remains a question. If it is very low, > > > dissolve a table spoon or so of baking soda in > > > the water. Give it another day and refill it. > > > > > > Arsenic is seldom used as a mold inhibitor > > > anymore. There are many organic compounds which > > > inhibit the growth of molds and are compatible > > > with the Silicone sealers. These leach slowly > > > into the surface of the cured sealant and thus > > > can be toxic to our fish for years in the future. > > > > > > Look in the hardware stores for the standard > > > Silicone Sealant. Be sure it doesn't say anything > > > about mold inhibiting. Or pay 10 times the price > > > for the same thing at the LFS. > > > > > > Charles H > > > > > > }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ > > > Change as much water as often as you can! > > > Charles Harrison in St Louis > > > http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ > > > }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm just going to go and buy a new tank when I > > > >can make it there, the old one is dead to me > > > >now, I'm not going to try to fix it. I let it > > > >cure for 3-4 days and in between fish I did a > > > >complete water change; I was just looking for > > > >opinions on the gravel and filter. So I guess > > > >I'll just buy a new tank, and like John > > > >suggested, set it up with the gravel and filter > > > >rinsed off, watch the P.H. for a few days, and > > > >hope for the best. > > > >Al. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > New tank.. $20... no biggie... its more the time and work... and > the > > fish. > > > >> > The gravel is new however, and is an hour and a half away to get > > more. > > > >> > I'm thinking that I should be ok to just > > > >>replace the tank, and rinse out the filter and > > > >>gravel. > > > >> > Sound reasonable? > > > >> > > > > >> > Thanks. > > > >> > > > > > > Al. > > > -- > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55081	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

While we're on the subject of cleaning acrylic tanks you can get a real good sparkle with 2 soft cloths. Wet one under warm water & wring it out then wipe all over the outside. Follow this with the other one dry & buff it up-comes up a treat! Come to think about it I'm going to do mine now as it has lots of unsightly dried water drips down the front . . . . . John*<o)))<* On 4 July 2013 00:21, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > ** > > > Sweet! Ill look into that for my own tank. At the aquarium they don't use > them because some ppl can be careless & substrate sometimes get between the > acrylic & the scrub & scratch up the acrylic. But I think when you're at > home & it's yours & you worked hard for it you have a large appreciation > for it & you're careful. Sometimes volunteers from different backgrounds > don't care as much as they should & the aquarium suffers. Although I may > start off with just a hand sponge myself until I feel more confident. > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 6:37 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > My method to clean acrylic is to use a regular magnetic algae magnet with > > BiOrb pads in between the tank & the magnet both inside & out. These come > > in packs of 3 & can be quite expensive from your LFS but are all over > eBay > > & very cheap. I use then again & again, they last ages & the abrasive > side > > is perfectly safe even using it by hand & applying some pressure for > those > > stubborn bits of green dot algae. I've been using these for nearly 5 > years > > now & the acrylic is as clear & sparkly as the day it was made. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 3 July 2013 20:47, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > > <mlambinicio@...>wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > they > >> scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than > >> with the magnetic floating brushes. > >> > >> I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, > >> ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like > company > >> & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going > make > >> it richly planted! > >> > >> Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > >> cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > >> there are some excellent breeders over there! > >> > >> Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > >> > >> /Marilynn > >> > >> > >> On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > >> > >>> Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic > >>> tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic > >>> tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, > but > >>> so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any > cleaning > >>> of the sides). > >>> I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes > >>> smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've > >>> recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in > >>> 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm > >>> hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > >>>> husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > >>>> a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > >>>> surprised she's not fermenting lol! > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > >>>> tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > >>>> them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > >>>> > >>>> I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next > >> hear! > >>>> > >>>> /r > >>>> Marilynn > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55082	From: Judy Moon	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: - Welcome

I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. Judy Moon, a praying child of God <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55083	From: Amber	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown tails available. I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). Amber On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@... > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55084	From: kbgwp	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: - Welcome

Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55085	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: File - Welcome

Yea they're pretty athletic little fish :) /Marilynn On Jul 4, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't > get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown > tails available. > I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't > survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the > only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept > disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or > something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). > > Amber > > On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > > > /Marilynn > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@... > > <mailto:arberglund%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55086	From: harry perry	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome

Exactly how I saw it. Harry, a moderator. ________________________________ From: kbgwp <kbgwp@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome   Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55087	From: Judy Moon	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: - Welcome

Okay Judy Moon, a praying child of God <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kbgwp Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6463 - Release Date: 07/04/13 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55088	From: Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome

Agreed. Hi Judy. I have a cat as well. Her name is Mar, it means ocean in Spanish - she has blue eyes (she's a Siamese). /Marilynn On Jul 4, 2013, at 4:29 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > Exactly how I saw it. > > Harry, a moderator. > > ________________________________ > From: kbgwp <kbgwp@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > > > Â > Welcome to the group Judy, > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. > > Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > <http://heaven-is-my-home.us/> http://Heaven-is-my-home.us > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55089	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Deals.

I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with a bulb also... bonus. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55090	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Deals.

Glad to hear about that PetSmart sale, Al. Sounds like a sale not to be missed. I had wondered a few days ago if they were going to hold something like this, to keep up with their competitor Petco. In many areas they're in close proximity to each other -- as in my area here in NJ. In Paramus, NJ, in what has become known as the shopping hub of Bergen County, they're located on the same highway on either side of it, and not very far from each other. They're both only about 5 miles from me. It would make sense that the sale was extended to all their stores. Why not upgrade to a 15 gallon tank, while you're at it < g >? Ray In a message dated 7/4/2013 11:50:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al_keep_fish@... writes: I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with a bulb also... bonus. Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55091	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

One thing I would like to point out here is that the depth of the tank has a lot to do with choice of "proper" lighting needs regardless of what animals/plants you are keeping. This being a 10 gallon tank which is shallow, T5 lighting would be quite strong for such a small tank, so be careful not to over light the tank. Not only will too much lighting contribute to algae growth but it can also affect animals in saltwater situations and plant growth in freshwater situations. Not knowing what you are keeping in this tank, I am still going to suggest standard fluorescent lighting to you simply due to the depth of your tank. For freshwater, standard T8 fluorescent lighting is strong enough to grow Amazon swords, which is a plant that requires high light, and is also strong enough for saltwater to grow anything but things such as some of the SPS corals that require very high lighting. Because T8 is sufficient to grow almost anything in that size of a tank, jumping up to T5 lighting would be overkill in my opinion, and would likely cause more harm than good as an end result. Standard T8 lighting can work well over any type of cover and will fight right over the standard deluxe hood the same way the incandescent fixture does now. The "screw in fluorescent" bulbs that I heard mentioned in this thread are something else I have to question. This sounds like compact fluorescent bulbs to me, and that is another I would avoid because CF lighting can put out a great deal of heat as well... much more so than incandescent. For that reason I would avoid those since that would simply add to your current problem rather than resolve it, and has the potential to melt the plastic of your deluxe hood/cover that you are currently using. There are some situations where CF lighting can work great... but over a 10 gallon tank... not so much. Also to clarify the info I posted earlier about the quality of LED fixtures... there are a few on the market that are excellent, but the cost for them would make no sense if standard fluorescent will resolve your problem and suit your needs. You would be talking about a difference of anywhere from $50 - $100 for a good quality LED fixture vs standard fluorescent T8 lighting to get the same results. Unless you are keeping something such as special SPS corals in a saltwater situation, I don't see that as being worth the extra expense, thus my recommendation to not bother with the LED for this tank. It simply wouldn't be worth it. T8 doesn't give off excessive amounts of heat such as the incandescent or CF bulbs would, and should be plenty to fix your problem without raiding your pocketbook. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > Rachell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55092	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

Hi Dawn, I thought the thinner T5 lamp gave off less heat than the comparable T8? John*<o)))<* On 5 July 2013 10:44, dawnshungryeyes4u2c <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...>wrote: > ** > > > One thing I would like to point out here is that the depth of the tank has > a lot to do with choice of "proper" lighting needs regardless of what > animals/plants you are keeping. This being a 10 gallon tank which is > shallow, T5 lighting would be quite strong for such a small tank, so be > careful not to over light the tank. Not only will too much lighting > contribute to algae growth but it can also affect animals in saltwater > situations and plant growth in freshwater situations. > > Not knowing what you are keeping in this tank, I am still going to suggest > standard fluorescent lighting to you simply due to the depth of your tank. > For freshwater, standard T8 fluorescent lighting is strong enough to grow > Amazon swords, which is a plant that requires high light, and is also > strong enough for saltwater to grow anything but things such as some of the > SPS corals that require very high lighting. > > Because T8 is sufficient to grow almost anything in that size of a tank, > jumping up to T5 lighting would be overkill in my opinion, and would likely > cause more harm than good as an end result. Standard T8 lighting can work > well over any type of cover and will fight right over the standard deluxe > hood the same way the incandescent fixture does now. > > The "screw in fluorescent" bulbs that I heard mentioned in this thread are > something else I have to question. This sounds like compact fluorescent > bulbs to me, and that is another I would avoid because CF lighting can put > out a great deal of heat as well... much more so than incandescent. For > that reason I would avoid those since that would simply add to your current > problem rather than resolve it, and has the potential to melt the plastic > of your deluxe hood/cover that you are currently using. There are some > situations where CF lighting can work great... but over a 10 gallon tank... > not so much. > > Also to clarify the info I posted earlier about the quality of LED > fixtures... there are a few on the market that are excellent, but the cost > for them would make no sense if standard fluorescent will resolve your > problem and suit your needs. You would be talking about a difference of > anywhere from $50 - $100 for a good quality LED fixture vs standard > fluorescent T8 lighting to get the same results. Unless you are keeping > something such as special SPS corals in a saltwater situation, I don't see > that as being worth the extra expense, thus my recommendation to not bother > with the LED for this tank. It simply wouldn't be worth it. T8 doesn't give > off excessive amounts of heat such as the incandescent or CF bulbs would, > and should be plenty to fix your problem without raiding your pocketbook. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the > original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more > often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter > but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, > to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon > tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about > changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I > believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > > Rachell > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55093	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

Hi Dawn, Yes, these screw-in fluorescent bulbs are a type of compact fluorescents (CFL's). They're the latest in energy saving innovations made to replace the normal incandescent bulbs in household ceiling fixtures and lamps, etc. A CFL bulb producing the equivilent amount of light of a 60 Watt incandescent bulb uses only 13 Watts though, so it doesn't produce the amount of heat you're probably thinking of. It's advertised to use 75% less energy than "ordinary" bulbs. It does still get hot though, but unlike an incandescent bulb with which you'd get burned if you tried to touch it while it's working, you can actually hold one of these smaller wattage CFL bulbs while it's working without risk of being burned. Still, I agree with you that to avoid unnecessary heat (especially in the Summer), that a hobbyist would be better off using a T8 fluorescent bulb -- for a smaller (shallower) tank -- and probably a T5 for the deeper tank for normal aquarium illumination. I don't know if one produces much more heat than the other, as John is suggesting, although just one 18" (18 W) T8 tube for a 10 gallon tank is often not enough light for growing medium-light requiring plants like Amazon Swords. When dealing with fluorescent bulbs, the lumens really need to be considered rather that the wattage -- in addition to the "temperature" (Kelvin) for the plants' needs -- and I don't know what 18 Watts of fluorescent lighting equates to in lumens. I wouldn't think though, the difference in heat produced by these two tubes wouldn't be all that great, unless John has cause to explain differently, but either one has to be so much better in reducing heat than an incandescent, and still better than a CFL. Ray In a message dated 7/5/2013 5:44:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: One thing I would like to point out here is that the depth of the tank has a lot to do with choice of "proper" lighting needs regardless of what animals/plants you are keeping. This being a 10 gallon tank which is shallow, T5 lighting would be quite strong for such a small tank, so be careful not to over light the tank. Not only will too much lighting contribute to algae growth but it can also affect animals in saltwater situations and plant growth in freshwater situations. Not knowing what you are keeping in this tank, I am still going to suggest standard fluorescent lighting to you simply due to the depth of your tank. For freshwater, standard T8 fluorescent lighting is strong enough to grow Amazon swords, which is a plant that requires high light, and is also strong enough for saltwater to grow anything but things such as some of the SPS corals that require very high lighting. Because T8 is sufficient to grow almost anything in that size of a tank, jumping up to T5 lighting would be overkill in my opinion, and would likely cause more harm than good as an end result. Standard T8 lighting can work well over any type of cover and will fight right over the standard deluxe hood the same way the incandescent fixture does now. The "screw in fluorescent" bulbs that I heard mentioned in this thread are something else I have to question. This sounds like compact fluorescent bulbs to me, and that is another I would avoid because CF lighting can put out a great deal of heat as well... much more so than incandescent. For that reason I would avoid those since that would simply add to your current problem rather than resolve it, and has the potential to melt the plastic of your deluxe hood/cover that you are currently using. There are some situations where CF lighting can work great... but over a 10 gallon tank... not so much. Also to clarify the info I posted earlier about the quality of LED fixtures... there are a few on the market that are excellent, but the cost for them would make no sense if standard fluorescent will resolve your problem and suit your needs. You would be talking about a difference of anywhere from $50 - $100 for a good quality LED fixture vs standard fluorescent T8 lighting to get the same results. Unless you are keeping something such as special SPS corals in a saltwater situation, I don't see that as being worth the extra expense, thus my recommendation to not bother with the LED for this tank. It simply wouldn't be worth it. T8 doesn't give off excessive amounts of heat such as the incandescent or CF bulbs would, and should be plenty to fix your problem without raiding your pocketbook. Dawn --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > Rachell > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55094	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

I don't know any details Ray, or even if it's true that a slimline T5 generates less heat than the equivalent T8 or not-just what I had heard to be the case & I've seen no evidence to refute or confirm this so perhaps someone can set the record straight. Another thing for the beginner to consider with these tube lighting is the luminosity of them can degrade over time so they are not supplying the full spectrum needs of the plant. I notice this quite dramatically every April when I replace my T5s. I have 2 free standing rigs on my tank side by side & when I replace one set the other with the old tubes in is noticeably darker & casts less light into the tank than then the new set. My total depth of water is only 19". John*<o)))<* On 5 July 2013 13:19, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Dawn, > > Yes, these screw-in fluorescent bulbs are a type of compact fluorescents > (CFL's). They're the latest in energy saving innovations made to replace > the normal incandescent bulbs in household ceiling fixtures and lamps, > etc. > A CFL bulb producing the equivilent amount of light of a 60 Watt > incandescent bulb uses only 13 Watts though, so it doesn't produce the > amount of heat > you're probably thinking of. It's advertised to use 75% less energy than > "ordinary" bulbs. It does still get hot though, but unlike an incandescent > bulb with which you'd get burned if you tried to touch it while it's > working, you can actually hold one of these smaller wattage CFL bulbs > while it's > working without risk of being burned. > > Still, I agree with you that to avoid unnecessary heat (especially in the > Summer), that a hobbyist would be better off using a T8 fluorescent bulb > -- > for a smaller (shallower) tank -- and probably a T5 for the deeper tank > for > normal aquarium illumination. I don't know if one produces much more heat > than the other, as John is suggesting, although just one 18" (18 W) T8 > tube for a 10 gallon tank is often not enough light for growing > medium-light > requiring plants like Amazon Swords. When dealing with fluorescent bulbs, > the lumens really need to be considered rather that the wattage -- in > addition to the "temperature" (Kelvin) for the plants' needs -- and I > don't know > what 18 Watts of fluorescent lighting equates to in lumens. I wouldn't > think though, the difference in heat produced by these two tubes wouldn't > be > all that great, unless John has cause to explain differently, but either > one > has to be so much better in reducing heat than an incandescent, and still > better than a CFL. > > Ray > > > In a message dated 7/5/2013 5:44:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: > > One thing I would like to point out here is that the depth of the tank has > a lot to do with choice of "proper" lighting needs regardless of what > animals/plants you are keeping. This being a 10 gallon tank which is > shallow, > T5 lighting would be quite strong for such a small tank, so be careful not > to > over light the tank. Not only will too much lighting contribute to algae > growth but it can also affect animals in saltwater situations and plant > growth in freshwater situations. > > Not knowing what you are keeping in this tank, I am still going to suggest > standard fluorescent lighting to you simply due to the depth of your tank. > For freshwater, standard T8 fluorescent lighting is strong enough to grow > Amazon swords, which is a plant that requires high light, and is also > strong enough for saltwater to grow anything but things such as some of > the SPS > corals that require very high lighting. > > Because T8 is sufficient to grow almost anything in that size of a tank, > jumping up to T5 lighting would be overkill in my opinion, and would > likely > cause more harm than good as an end result. Standard T8 lighting can work > well over any type of cover and will fight right over the standard deluxe > hood the same way the incandescent fixture does now. > > The "screw in fluorescent" bulbs that I heard mentioned in this thread are > something else I have to question. This sounds like compact fluorescent > bulbs to me, and that is another I would avoid because CF lighting can put > out a great deal of heat as well... much more so than incandescent. For > that > reason I would avoid those since that would simply add to your current > problem rather than resolve it, and has the potential to melt the plastic > of > your deluxe hood/cover that you are currently using. There are some > situations where CF lighting can work great... but over a 10 gallon > tank... not so > much. > > Also to clarify the info I posted earlier about the quality of LED > fixtures... there are a few on the market that are excellent, but the cost > for > them would make no sense if standard fluorescent will resolve your problem > and > suit your needs. You would be talking about a difference of anywhere from > $50 - $100 for a good quality LED fixture vs standard fluorescent T8 > lighting to get the same results. Unless you are keeping something such as > special SPS corals in a saltwater situation, I don't see that as being > worth the > extra expense, thus my recommendation to not bother with the LED for this > tank. It simply wouldn't be worth it. T8 doesn't give off excessive > amounts > of heat such as the incandescent or CF bulbs would, and should be plenty > to > fix your problem without raiding your pocketbook. > > Dawn > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > , > "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the > original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more > often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the > winter > but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer > here, > to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon > tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about > changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I > believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > > Rachell > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55095	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Deals.

But then I'd need a bigger night table, it's beside the bed. Plus there's no plumbing upstairs, so I have to haul water up and down the stairs. I split them up though, and do the 40 in the living room on a different day. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Glad to hear about that PetSmart sale, Al. Sounds like a sale not to be > missed. I had wondered a few days ago if they were going to hold something > like this, to keep up with their competitor Petco. In many areas they're > in close proximity to each other -- as in my area here in NJ. In Paramus, > NJ, in what has become known as the shopping hub of Bergen County, they're > located on the same highway on either side of it, and not very far from each > other. They're both only about 5 miles from me. It would make sense that > the sale was extended to all their stores. Why not upgrade to a 15 gallon > tank, while you're at it < g >? > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 7/4/2013 11:50:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > al_keep_fish@... writes: > > > > > I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per > gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g > just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with > a bulb also... bonus. > > Al. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55096	From: kbgwp	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

In response to the compact fluorescent lights, I had a 10 gallon plant only tank set up a few years back that I used 3 clip-on shop light reflectors with the screw in CFL bulbs in them. It didn't look real professional and the tank had no cover but the bulbs did grow plants quite well and were cheap to buy as well as operate. I can't remember what all plants I had in that tank since I bought them off of E-bay as well as the LFS. I do know that there were Java Ferns and whatever the dry plant bulbs were that are sold in some fish stores as well as some marimo moss balls. Everything grew great. I'm not suggesting putting these bulbs inside a hood but just wanted to state that even the cheap lights can grow plants. My other freshwater tank was a 55 gallon with a single 4 foot tube light the same size as a shop light but this bulb was the one that came with the hood and was made for freshwater aquariums. That light also grew plants quite well and within one year, the aquarium was filled with plants starting with just a few that I got off of E-bay (again, I don't remember what these plants were though but were low or medium light plants) Right now I don't have any aquariums set up (lost all my tanks in a house fire) but would still like to get another one set up sometime. I have a 5 gallon tank that I keep looking at and a 10 gallon that could use re-sealed. I still miss that 55 gallon though and would like to have one at least that size if not bigger someday. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > Yes, these screw-in fluorescent bulbs are a type of compact fluorescents > (CFL's). They're the latest in energy saving innovations made to replace > the normal incandescent bulbs in household ceiling fixtures and lamps, etc. > A CFL bulb producing the equivilent amount of light of a 60 Watt > incandescent bulb uses only 13 Watts though, so it doesn't produce the amount of heat > you're probably thinking of. It's advertised to use 75% less energy than > "ordinary" bulbs. It does still get hot though, but unlike an incandescent > bulb with which you'd get burned if you tried to touch it while it's > working, you can actually hold one of these smaller wattage CFL bulbs while it's > working without risk of being burned. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55098	From: harry perry	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues

Let's not even think about starting something out of nothing. O.K. I read all the posts here. There was no religious proganda or religious discussion. And there won't be  !!!!!! If you find a link offensive don't click on it. Signature lines are allowed. So is freedom of religion. Just don't discuss it here. I will monitor this situation closely. That's my job not anyone elses. This discussion is closed. Harry, a moderator. ________________________________ From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> To: "aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com" <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 6:24 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] religious issues   For the person who said she's leave the group if someone had a problem with her belief in religion, I would hate to see you leave the group, but I find your mention of a god and links to religious content very offensive. This propaganda does not belong on an aquarium list. Imagine if I signed my posts "Worship Satan" or some such nonsense. I doubt you'd want to have to see that. Roseﾂ� ________________________________ From: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 4:23 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 4637 the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. Group 10 New Messages Digest #4637 1a Re: File - Welcome by "SIMMONDS JOHN" mrbushy2003 1b Re: File - Welcome by "Amber" barnsten 1c Re: File - Welcome by "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... 2a - Welcome by "Judy Moon" judymoon18 2b Re: - Welcome by "kbgwp" kbgwp 2c Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome by "harry perry" harryfisherman 2d Re: - Welcome by "Judy Moon" judymoon18 2e Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome by "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... 3a Deals. by "Al Keep" al_keep_fish 3b Re: Deals. by sevenspringss Messages 1a Re: File - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 9:51ﾂ�am (PDT) . Posted by: "SIMMONDS JOHN" mrbushy2003 While we're on the subject of cleaning acrylic tanks you can get a real good sparkle with 2 soft cloths. Wet one under warm water & wring it out then wipe all over the outside. Follow this with the other one dry & buff it up-comes up a treat! Come to think about it I'm going to do mine now as it has lots of unsightly dried water drips down the front . . . . . John*<o)) )<* On 4 July 2013 00:21, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio <mlambinicio@ ymail.com>wrote: > ** > > > Sweet! Ill look into that for my own tank. At the aquarium they don't use > them because some ppl can be careless & substrate sometimes get between the > acrylic & the scrub & scratch up the acrylic. But I think when you're at > home & it's yours & you worked hard for it you have a large appreciation > for it & you're careful. Sometimes volunteers from different backgrounds > don't care as much as they should & the aquarium suffers. Although I may > start off with just a hand sponge myself until I feel more confident. > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 6:37 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@ ntlworld. com> > wrote: > > > My method to clean acrylic is to use a regular magnetic algae magnet with > > BiOrb pads in between the tank & the magnet both inside & out. These come > > in packs of 3 & can be quite expensive from your LFS but are all over > eBay > > & very cheap. I use then again & again, they last ages & the abrasive > side > > is perfectly safe even using it by hand & applying some pressure for > those > > stubborn bits of green dot algae. I've been using these for nearly 5 > years > > now & the acrylic is as clear & sparkly as the day it was made. > > > > John*<o)) )<* > > > > > > On 3 July 2013 20:47, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > > <mlambinicio@ ymail.com>wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > they > >> scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than > >> with the magnetic floating brushes. > >> > >> I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, > >> ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like > company > >> & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going > make > >> it richly planted! > >> > >> Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > >> cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > >> there are some excellent breeders over there! > >> > >> Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > >> > >> /Marilynn > >> > >> > >> On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > >> > >>> Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic > >>> tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic > >>> tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, > but > >>> so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any > cleaning > >>> of the sides). > >>> I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes > >>> smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've > >>> recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in > >>> 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm > >>> hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. > >>> > >>> Amber > >>> > >>> On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > >>> > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > >>> > a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > >>> > surprised she's not fermenting lol! > >>> > > >>> > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > >>> > tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > >>> > them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > >>> > > >>> > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next > >> hear! > >>> > > >>> > /r > >>> > Marilynn > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > AquaticLife ﾃつｷ A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.><((( (ﾃつｺ>.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ>< ((((ﾃつｺ> ﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..><( (((ﾃつｺ> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <ﾃつｺ((((> <.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ.ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ<ﾃつｺ(( ((><ﾃつｸ .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸ. , .ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ..<ﾃつｺ((((> <ﾃつｷﾃつｴﾃつｯ`ﾃつｷ.ﾃつｸﾃつｸ. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ 1b Re: File - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 11:23ﾂ�am (PDT) . Posted by: "Amber" barnsten I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown tails available. I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). Amber On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com > <mailto:arberglu nd%40gmail. com>> wrote: > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ 1c Re: File - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 1:25ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... Yea they're pretty athletic little fish :) /Marilynn On Jul 4, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't > get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown > tails available. > I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't > survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the > only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept > disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or > something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). > > Amber > > On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > > > /Marilynn > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com > > <mailto:arberglu nd%40gmail. com>> wrote: > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ 2a - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 10:07ﾂ�am (PDT) . Posted by: "Judy Moon" judymoon18 I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. Judy Moon, a praying child of God <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ 2b Re: - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 1:25ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "kbgwp" kbgwp Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ 2c Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 1:29ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "harry perry" harryfisherman Exactly how I saw it. Harry, a moderator. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: kbgwp <kbgwp@yahoo. com> To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome ﾃつ� Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ 2d Re: - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 1:36ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Judy Moon" judymoon18 Okay Judy Moon, a praying child of God <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kbgwp Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 2:22 PM To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome Welcome to the group Judy, I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> , " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6463 - Release Date: 07/04/13 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ 2e Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 1:36ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... Agreed. Hi Judy. I have a cat as well. Her name is Mar, it means ocean in Spanish - she has blue eyes (she's a Siamese). /Marilynn On Jul 4, 2013, at 4:29 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > Exactly how I saw it. > > Harry, a moderator. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: kbgwp <kbgwp@yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > > > ﾃ�窶� > Welcome to the group Judy, > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. > > Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ 3a Deals. Thu Julﾂ�4,ﾂ�2013 8:50ﾂ�pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Al Keep" al_keep_fish I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with a bulb also... bonus. Al. Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (2) . Top ^ 3b Re: Deals. Fri Julﾂ�5,ﾂ�2013 2:21ﾂ�am (PDT) . Posted by: sevenspringss Glad to hear about that PetSmart sale, Al. Sounds like a sale not to be missed. I had wondered a few days ago if they were going to hold something like this, to keep up with their competitor Petco. In many areas they're in close proximity to each other -- as in my area here in NJ. In Paramus, NJ, in what has become known as the shopping hub of Bergen County, they're located on the same highway on either side of it, and not very far from each other. They're both only about 5 miles from me. It would make sense that the sale was extended to all their stores. Why not upgrade to a 15 gallon tank, while you're at it < g >? Ray In a message dated 7/4/2013 11:50:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al_keep_fish@ yahoo.com writes: I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with a bulb also... bonus. Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (2) . Top ^ Visit Your Group > View All Topics > Create New Topic > 6 New Members > We are making changes based on your feedback, Thank you ! Submit Feedback > The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog Check it out! > GROUP FOOTER MESSAGE AquaticLife ﾂｷ A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.><((((ﾂｺ>.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ><((((ﾂｺ> ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..><((((ﾂｺ> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <ﾂｺ((((><.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｸ.ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸ. , .ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ..<ﾂｺ((((><ﾂｷﾂｴﾂｯ`ﾂｷ.ﾂｸﾂｸ. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.ﾂ� Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails. CHANGE SETTINGS > TERMS OF USE > UNSUBSCRIBE > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55099	From: Ray	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues

All, I see this message was approved for posting just as I was writing a message to Rose and the group of other Moderators (other than myself), and was in the process of deleting it. This message had no good reason to be posted and should not have been. Please disregard this message in it's entirety. If anyone else choosing to post a message having any political or religious conotation, please know that this List does not allow such messages and postings (or attempted postings of them) and may result in the member being banned. While Rose's message has been posted as Yahoogroup mail, it will be struck from the home page's archives. I don't want to see any reply to her post. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> wrote: > > For the person who said she's leave the group if someone had a problem with her belief in religion, I would hate to see you leave the group, but I find your mention of a god and links to religious content very offensive. This propaganda does not belong on an aquarium list. Imagine if I signed my posts "Worship Satan" or some such nonsense. I doubt you'd want to have to see that. Rose  > > > ________________________________ > From: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 4:23 AM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Digest Number 4637 > > > > the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. > > the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group. Group > 10 New Messages > Digest #4637 > > 1a > Re: File - Welcome by "SIMMONDS JOHN" mrbushy2003 > 1b > Re: File - Welcome by "Amber" barnsten > 1c > Re: File - Welcome by "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... > 2a > - Welcome by "Judy Moon" judymoon18 > 2b > Re: - Welcome by "kbgwp" kbgwp > 2c > Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome by "harry perry" harryfisherman > 2d > Re: - Welcome by "Judy Moon" judymoon18 > 2e > Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome by "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... > 3a > Deals. by "Al Keep" al_keep_fish > 3b > Re: Deals. by sevenspringss > Messages > 1a > Re: File - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 9:51 am (PDT) . Posted by: > "SIMMONDS JOHN" mrbushy2003 > While we're on the subject of cleaning acrylic tanks you can get a real > good sparkle with 2 soft cloths. Wet one under warm water & wring it out > then wipe all over the outside. Follow this with the other one dry & buff > it up-comes up a treat! Come to think about it I'm going to do mine now as > it has lots of unsightly dried water drips down the front . . . . . > > John*<o)) )<* > > On 4 July 2013 00:21, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > <mlambinicio@ ymail.com>wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Sweet! Ill look into that for my own tank. At the aquarium they don't use > > them because some ppl can be careless & substrate sometimes get between the > > acrylic & the scrub & scratch up the acrylic. But I think when you're at > > home & it's yours & you worked hard for it you have a large appreciation > > for it & you're careful. Sometimes volunteers from different backgrounds > > don't care as much as they should & the aquarium suffers. Although I may > > start off with just a hand sponge myself until I feel more confident. > > > > /Marilynn > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 6:37 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@ ntlworld. com> > > wrote: > > > > > My method to clean acrylic is to use a regular magnetic algae magnet with > > > BiOrb pads in between the tank & the magnet both inside & out. These come > > > in packs of 3 & can be quite expensive from your LFS but are all over > > eBay > > > & very cheap. I use then again & again, they last ages & the abrasive > > side > > > is perfectly safe even using it by hand & applying some pressure for > > those > > > stubborn bits of green dot algae. I've been using these for nearly 5 > > years > > > now & the acrylic is as clear & sparkly as the day it was made. > > > > > > John*<o)) )<* > > > > > > > > > On 3 July 2013 20:47, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio > > > <mlambinicio@ ymail.com>wrote: > > > > > >> ** > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > > they > > >> scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge rather than > > >> with the magnetic floating brushes. > > >> > > >> I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community tank, > > >> ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some like > > company > > >> & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but I'm def going > > make > > >> it richly planted! > > >> > > >> Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > > >> cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > > >> there are some excellent breeders over there! > > >> > > >> Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > >> > > >> /Marilynn > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Welcome to the group, I'm sure we would all love to see your acrylic > > >>> tank once they have finished building it. I've always wanted an acrylic > > >>> tank rather than the glass tanks I have (acrylic is SO much lighter, > > but > > >>> so much easier to scratch, so keep that in mind when you do any > > cleaning > > >>> of the sides). > > >>> I used to keep my betta's in their own tanks (10 gallon sometimes > > >>> smaller), but they never lasted more than a year for some reason. I've > > >>> recently purchased a new male betta and a female betta and have them in > > >>> 2 of my community tanks instead of keeping them in their own tanks. I'm > > >>> hoping they'll live longer happier lives this way. > > >>> > > >>> Amber > > >>> > > >>> On 7/2/2013 11:30 PM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > Hi! My name is Marilynn & am new to the home hobbyist aquarist. I have > > >>> > husbandry knowledge via volunteering at the National Museum DC. I have > > >>> > a husband, he's a sailor & I have a cat, she's so spoiled I'm > > >>> > surprised she's not fermenting lol! > > >>> > > > >>> > Anyway, I'm speaking to a local contractor regarding a custom acrylic > > >>> > tank they'll be building for my bettas. Once I've gotten the hang of > > >>> > them in a year of so I may try my luck with a marine tank. > > >>> > > > >>> > I'm currently a student at UFC for my BS in Biology, I graduate next > > >> hear! > > >>> > > > >>> > /r > > >>> > Marilynn > > >>> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((( (º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸>< ((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><( (((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > > to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > > <º((((> <.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º(( ((><¸ .·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((> <·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > > you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > > the home page. > > > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife- digest@yahoogrou ps.com to receive the digest, > > which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- nomail@yahoogrou ps.com for the No E-Mail option > > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > > > Or email aquaticlife- normal@yahoogrou ps.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ > 1b > Re: File - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 11:23 am (PDT) . Posted by: > "Amber" barnsten > I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't > get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown > tails available. > I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't > survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the > only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept > disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or > something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). > > Amber > > On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > > > /Marilynn > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com > > <mailto:arberglu nd%40gmail. com>> wrote: > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ > 1c > Re: File - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:25 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... > Yea they're pretty athletic little fish :) > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 4, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com> wrote: > > > I purchased my betta's locally at my LFS (local fish store). They don't > > get a really great selection but they sometimes have some pretty crown > > tails available. > > I purchased a few betta's off aquabid a few years ago and one didn't > > survive the shipment. They didn't live long either, I think I had the > > only surviving male live for a year, the females slowly kept > > disappearing from my 125 gallon tank (I think they were jumping out or > > something, I've fixed the top so that they can't jump out now). > > > > Amber > > > > On 7/3/2013 11:47 AM, Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio wrote: > > > > > > Hi Amber! We have a few acrylic tanks at the aquarium & you're right > > > they scratch VERY easily, so we clean those by hand with a sponge > > > rather than with the magnetic floating brushes. > > > > > > I haven't decided if I'm going to make my 20gal split a community > > > tank, ill probably keep it species only, Betta can be so testy some > > > like company & others wont even accept a snail in their territory but > > > I'm def going make it richly planted! > > > > > > Where did you get your past & current betta from? After I have my tank > > > cycled Ill probably hit up aquabid.com for some Betta from Thailand - > > > there are some excellent breeders over there! > > > > > > Ill def post pics once I have everything up & running :) > > > > > > /Marilynn > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Amber <arberglund@gmail. com > > > <mailto:arberglu nd%40gmail. com>> wrote: > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^ > 2a > - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 10:07 am (PDT) . Posted by: > "Judy Moon" judymoon18 > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ > 2b > Re: - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:25 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "kbgwp" kbgwp > Welcome to the group Judy, > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. > > Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ > 2c > Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:29 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "harry perry" harryfisherman > Exactly how I saw it. > > Harry, a moderator. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > From: kbgwp <kbgwp@yahoo. com> > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > > >   > Welcome to the group Judy, > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. > > Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ > 2d > Re: - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:36 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "Judy Moon" judymoon18 > Okay > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > From: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com] On > Behalf Of kbgwp > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 2:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > > > Welcome to the group Judy, > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the > preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around > the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The > arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from > offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who > will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a > great hobby to add to your other pets. > > Brian in PA > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:AquaticL ife%40yahoogroup s.com> , > " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live > alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are > rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. > You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my > website given below. > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6463 - Release Date: 07/04/13 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ > 2e > Re: Judy....Re: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:36 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "Michael & Marilynn Lambinicio" mlambinicio@... > Agreed. Hi Judy. I have a cat as well. Her name is Mar, it means ocean in Spanish - she has blue eyes (she's a Siamese). > > /Marilynn > > On Jul 4, 2013, at 4:29 PM, harry perry <harryfisherman@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Exactly how I saw it. > > > > Harry, a moderator. > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > From: kbgwp <kbgwp@yahoo. com> > > To: AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:22 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: - Welcome > > > > > >  > > Welcome to the group Judy, > > > > I think your sig line should be OK as long as that is the extent of the preaching. Keep in mind that this is an aquarium group with members around the world. Religion and politics should be saved for other groups. The arguing (I mean discussing) here should all be fish related to keep from offending anyone else and keeping the group from getting off track. > > > > There are many people here with much experience in the aquarium hobby who will help with any questions or problems you have with your fish. It's a great hobby to add to your other pets. > > > > Brian in PA > > > > --- In AquaticLife@ yahoogroups. com, " Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I guess it is time I introduced myself. I am a 68 yr old widow. I live alone except for my 8 cats (all rescues), a parrot, and 7 little dogs (5 are rescues). All are spayed or neutered. I now live just outside of Wallace ID. You can find out all about me, my pets, my home and my God if you go to my website given below. > > > I someone is offended by my sig line let me know and I leave the group. > > > > > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > > <http://heaven- is-my-home. us/> http://Heaven- is-my-home. us > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (5) . Top ^ > 3a > Deals. > Thu Jul 4, 2013 8:50 pm (PDT) . Posted by: > "Al Keep" al_keep_fish > I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with a bulb also... bonus. > > Al. > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (2) . Top ^ > 3b > Re: Deals. > Fri Jul 5, 2013 2:21 am (PDT) . Posted by: > sevenspringss > Glad to hear about that PetSmart sale, Al. Sounds like a sale not to be > missed. I had wondered a few days ago if they were going to hold something > like this, to keep up with their competitor Petco. In many areas they're > in close proximity to each other -- as in my area here in NJ. In Paramus, > NJ, in what has become known as the shopping hub of Bergen County, they're > located on the same highway on either side of it, and not very far from each > other. They're both only about 5 miles from me. It would make sense that > the sale was extended to all their stores. Why not upgrade to a 15 gallon > tank, while you're at it < g >? > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 7/4/2013 11:50:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > al_keep_fish@ yahoo.com writes: > > I did find a pretty good deal though Ray. Petsmart has a sale now; $2 per > gallon, but includes hood and light fixture. so for the same $20 for a 10g > just the tank, I can get an extra hood and fixture, and hey if it comes with > a bulb also... bonus. > > Al. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (2) . Top ^ > Visit Your Group > > > View All Topics > > > Create New Topic > > > 6 New Members > > > We are making changes based on your feedback, Thank you ! > Submit Feedback > > > The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog > Check it out! > > > GROUP FOOTER MESSAGE > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails. > > CHANGE SETTINGS > > > TERMS OF USE > > > UNSUBSCRIBE > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55100	From: Ava	Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball

This morning I noticed my "silly" little african dwarf frog holding onto the side of a moss ball in their tank. After I got home from work 8 hours later, I noticed he's still on the moss ball, but was now on what appeared to be the opposite side. I lifted the lid of my aquarium to do some cleaning and everyone in the tank darted away except for him, which I thought was odd. Then I saw it... His front little feet were stuck IN the moss ball. Like, he clawed his little feet deep into the moss ball, got them tangled and couldn't get free. He was apparently like that for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they could stay underwater for a while, but 8 hours? I scooped him (and the moss ball attached to him) up towards the surface and carefully tore at the moss ball until his little feet were free. He's alive, though I'm not sure how. His front feet didn't seem in the best condition, it almost looked like he had them balled into little fists. I've never heard of this before--I thought moss balls were safe. Anyone have experience with this? If he did in fact hurt his feet, any ideas on what I could do?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55101	From: joe t	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: religious issues

I personally do not have an issue with a person signing their name and title as they wish. Judy Moon signed "a praying child of God" and I do not have a problem with that. I may sign "joe t, Everyone should have a garden." As long as the person does not try to pontificate and preach to everyone that they must believe as they do and keeps the subject on the matters of keeping their aquariums I see no harm. If someone doesn't believe in being a "praying child of God" or that "everyone should have a garden" that's fine. Just do not pay attention to it. It has nothing to do with the subject of fishkeeping and that is what this site is all about. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55102	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball

This kind of situation, while rare, does happen. Moss balls are quite dense, are a form of algae (not a true moss) and if you look closely to how the strands intertwine, any animal that crawls on it has the potential to get stuck. Unfortunately, if your frogs feet were injured in this ordeal there is nothing that can be done for that. If the injury isn't too severe the feet may heal on their own but may not look quite right again. As long as it doesn't prevent the frog from swimming the frog should be ok as long as none of the others pick on him. I would be more concerned about any open injuries such as strands of moss that may have tightened enough around a toe to amputate it (much the same way a human hair can wrap around a baby's toe and cut off circulation and into the skin). If there are any toes missing I would be concerned about infection while it is healing, so keeping the water very clean would be important. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > This morning I noticed my "silly" little african dwarf frog holding onto the side of a moss ball in their tank. After I got home from work 8 hours later, I noticed he's still on the moss ball, but was now on what appeared to be the opposite side. I lifted the lid of my aquarium to do some cleaning and everyone in the tank darted away except for him, which I thought was odd. > Then I saw it... His front little feet were stuck IN the moss ball. Like, he clawed his little feet deep into the moss ball, got them tangled and couldn't get free. He was apparently like that for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they could stay underwater for a while, but 8 hours? I scooped him (and the moss ball attached to him) up towards the surface and carefully tore at the moss ball until his little feet were free. He's alive, though I'm not sure how. His front feet didn't seem in the best condition, it almost looked like he had them balled into little fists. I've never heard of this before--I thought moss balls were safe. > > Anyone have experience with this? > > If he did in fact hurt his feet, any ideas on what I could do? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55103	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

Hi Ray & John, Let me please try to clear up the info being discussed here and apologize ahead of time if I miss anything either of you has directed to me in way of questions... it is sometimes difficult when the questions span multiple posts and I have the inability to track each one as I reply. For starters, Lumen is the measure of the human eye's perception of light and plays no bearing on the growth of plants or corals. Lux is also a measurement of light perceived by the human eye. Wattage is the energy consumption used to power an electrical device, and PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation) measures the level of useful radiation given off by a light source used in photosynthesis. (sorry for the vocab lesson but I felt this important to clarify) So, when trying to determine how much useful light any bulb will provide for any situation, it is actually PAR that matters most. John, you mentioned that you have noticed the differences in the brightness of the new bulbs vs old bulbs, and while this is accurate, it is the degradation of PHOSPHORS that is responsible for shift of spectrum while also reducing the amount of brightness and reducing the amount of PAR. Ballasts also weaken over time (years) and eventually need to be replaced to be as effective as a new fixture. It is the ballast that is responsible for the amount of power any bulb is going to give out. An old ballast will not provide the same amount of useful light as a new ballast, even if the bulbs are identical. I'd also like to add that not every new ballast of the same make & model gives off the same exact amount of power. There is an industry standard for what is called "ballast factor", which is the amount of power each individual ballast puts out. The standard ranges from approximately 95%-100%. The manufacturers do not test every individual ballast for ballast factor... they may test maybe 10 out of 100 from each lot produced. So essentially you can have 2 seemingly identical ballasts and one of them gives off 95% of the power while another gives off 100% of the power, so side by side one will drive slightly more wattage to the bulb than the other and they can be slightly different in lumen, but so slight the human eye can't tell the difference. This applies to all fluorescent fixtures. In regards to the T5 vs T8 and their heat output... the difference is so slight that it is usually not noticed in any measurable amount, however, the strength of a T5 light vs a T8 will make a difference in regards to plant (or coral) growth.. especially in regards to algae growth in a shallow tank, which is why I suggested sticking to the T8 for the smaller, shallower 10 gallon. If this were a taller tank, such as a 20 high, then I would agree that a T5 would be the better option. Due to the shallow depth of a 10 gallon tank I suggested the T8 be the better way to go to avoid algae issues, because the temp difference is so slight that the T8 isn't going to raise the water temp anymore than a T5 will, and because put simply, the amount of light needed to grow plants or most corals in a 10 gallon tank just doesn't warrant the expense of a T5 fixture for something this shallow. Cost difference between the 2 fixtures is quite a bit, so why suggest a more expensive fixture if it's not truly needed? Like anyone else, I enjoy saving money where I can in this hobby, and to suggest someone spend all that extra money and risk problems with algae blooms needlessly makes no sense to me. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Hi Dawn, > > Yes, these screw-in fluorescent bulbs are a type of compact fluorescents > (CFL's). They're the latest in energy saving innovations made to replace > the normal incandescent bulbs in household ceiling fixtures and lamps, etc. > A CFL bulb producing the equivilent amount of light of a 60 Watt > incandescent bulb uses only 13 Watts though, so it doesn't produce the amount of heat > you're probably thinking of. It's advertised to use 75% less energy than > "ordinary" bulbs. It does still get hot though, but unlike an incandescent > bulb with which you'd get burned if you tried to touch it while it's > working, you can actually hold one of these smaller wattage CFL bulbs while it's > working without risk of being burned. > > Still, I agree with you that to avoid unnecessary heat (especially in the > Summer), that a hobbyist would be better off using a T8 fluorescent bulb -- > for a smaller (shallower) tank -- and probably a T5 for the deeper tank for > normal aquarium illumination. I don't know if one produces much more heat > than the other, as John is suggesting, although just one 18" (18 W) T8 > tube for a 10 gallon tank is often not enough light for growing medium-light > requiring plants like Amazon Swords. When dealing with fluorescent bulbs, > the lumens really need to be considered rather that the wattage -- in > addition to the "temperature" (Kelvin) for the plants' needs -- and I don't know > what 18 Watts of fluorescent lighting equates to in lumens. I wouldn't > think though, the difference in heat produced by these two tubes wouldn't be > all that great, unless John has cause to explain differently, but either one > has to be so much better in reducing heat than an incandescent, and still > better than a CFL. > > Ray > > > In a message dated 7/5/2013 5:44:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: > > > > > One thing I would like to point out here is that the depth of the tank has > a lot to do with choice of "proper" lighting needs regardless of what > animals/plants you are keeping. This being a 10 gallon tank which is shallow, > T5 lighting would be quite strong for such a small tank, so be careful not to > over light the tank. Not only will too much lighting contribute to algae > growth but it can also affect animals in saltwater situations and plant > growth in freshwater situations. > > Not knowing what you are keeping in this tank, I am still going to suggest > standard fluorescent lighting to you simply due to the depth of your tank. > For freshwater, standard T8 fluorescent lighting is strong enough to grow > Amazon swords, which is a plant that requires high light, and is also > strong enough for saltwater to grow anything but things such as some of the SPS > corals that require very high lighting. > > Because T8 is sufficient to grow almost anything in that size of a tank, > jumping up to T5 lighting would be overkill in my opinion, and would likely > cause more harm than good as an end result. Standard T8 lighting can work > well over any type of cover and will fight right over the standard deluxe > hood the same way the incandescent fixture does now. > > The "screw in fluorescent" bulbs that I heard mentioned in this thread are > something else I have to question. This sounds like compact fluorescent > bulbs to me, and that is another I would avoid because CF lighting can put > out a great deal of heat as well... much more so than incandescent. For that > reason I would avoid those since that would simply add to your current > problem rather than resolve it, and has the potential to melt the plastic of > your deluxe hood/cover that you are currently using. There are some > situations where CF lighting can work great... but over a 10 gallon tank... not so > much. > > Also to clarify the info I posted earlier about the quality of LED > fixtures... there are a few on the market that are excellent, but the cost for > them would make no sense if standard fluorescent will resolve your problem and > suit your needs. You would be talking about a difference of anywhere from > $50 - $100 for a good quality LED fixture vs standard fluorescent T8 > lighting to get the same results. Unless you are keeping something such as > special SPS corals in a saltwater situation, I don't see that as being worth the > extra expense, thus my recommendation to not bother with the LED for this > tank. It simply wouldn't be worth it. T8 doesn't give off excessive amounts > of heat such as the incandescent or CF bulbs would, and should be plenty to > fix your problem without raiding your pocketbook. > > Dawn > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > "rachell7" <rachell7@> wrote: > > > > What do you use for lighting in your tank? My 10 gallon still has the > original hood with incandescent light blubs which need replacing far more > often then I like and do contribute to heating my tank, great in the winter > but not so great in the summer when it's 112 outside! But with summer here, > to keep the heat down, I borrowed the hood from a friend's empty 20 gallon > tank that has florescent lights and I like it. So now I am thinking about > changing to either the florescent or LED. Give me your opinion please! I > believe Dawn you said you use the LEDs when I commented on your photos? > > Rachell > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55104	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: plecostomus

Hello, I am tatts and new here. I inherited a plecostomus. Its in a 30 gal tank and has been alone for at least 5 yrs. I was thinking of adding a few little fish for company. Will it get along with a school of little neons? I was thinking maybe 10 at the most. The Aquarium is a 30 gal. Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55105	From: Noura T.	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball

"He was apparently like that for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they could stay underwater for a while, but 8 hours? He was apparently like that for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they could stay underwater for a while, but 8 hours?" I hope he will recover without permanent damage. I can't imagine he was down there for 8 hours, I'm wondering whether he managed to drag the moss ball with him to the surface to get some air (?), I don't know how big or heavy is that ball, but dragging it in water could be doable even for a small frog. Perhaps the frog wasn't yet stuck in the moss when you saw him on it in the morning, and only got stuck before you got home.. Just wondering! Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55106	From: Ava	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: African Dwarf Frog STUCK on moss ball

I'm hoping so, that or he went into some weird state and shut down his system, like what terrestrial frogs do when it gets cold out, they basically "shut down" like a bear going into hibernation. It happened AGAIN this morning. Not sure if it was the same frog or not, I have 3, but I have this moss ball for 2 months without issue and suddenly 2 days in a row frogs get stuck? I moved the moss ball into another tank, but that was just too weird... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > "He was apparently like that for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they > could stay underwater for a while, but 8 hours? He was apparently like that > for EIGHT HOURS unable to get air. I knew they could stay underwater for a > while, but 8 hours?" > > > > I hope he will recover without permanent damage. I can't imagine he was down > there for 8 hours, I'm wondering whether he managed to drag the moss ball > with him to the surface to get some air (?), I don't know how big or heavy > is that ball, but dragging it in water could be doable even for a small > frog. Perhaps the frog wasn't yet stuck in the moss when you saw him on it > in the morning, and only got stuck before you got home.. Just wondering! > > > > Noura > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55107	From: Patrick	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" wrote: > Ballasts also weaken over time (years) and eventually need to be > replaced to be as effective as a new fixture. This is a rather broad statement that I don't think is particularly true, especially if you are including newer electronic ballasts. But even with the older magnetic type ballast, there isn't much to wear out unless you have insulation breakdown with the windings. Assuming good insulation, a magnetic ballast should not weaken. And I can't think of what in an electronic ballast would cause the ballast to weaken rather than simply stop working. > It is the ballast that is responsible for the amount > of power any bulb is going to give out. Well technically the job of a ballast is to limit the amount of current through a lamp. The lamp itself will determine (usually by length of tube) how much power is being used. Many newer lamp types will use the same current but the length of the lamps will determine their wattage. > There is an industry standard for what is called "ballast factor", > which is the amount of power each individual ballast puts out. > The standard ranges from approximately 95%-100%. Ballasts are available with a much wider range of BF ratings, from the high 60s/low 70s to 120+%. There are many reasons why a lighting engineer or designer may need ballast with low ballast factors and with high ballast factors, so they are available in a much wider range than you have indicated. > The manufacturers do not test every individual ballast for ballast > factor... they may test maybe 10 out of 100 from each lot produced. I doubt they are production line testing of ballast factor. The BF rating is a design specification. Once you have designed a ballast, you can then test it with various lamp types and number of lamps to determine that ballast's BF ratings (a single ballast will often have a number of different BF ratings). Once those are determined, it becomes a specification of the ballast and won't change during the manufacturing process. Any testing in production will simply be to ensure operation of the ballast, not to re-validate the design. > In regards to the T5 vs T8 and their heat output... the difference > is so slight that it is usually not noticed in any measurable amount, And for roughly the same length lamp over a 10 gallon tank, I would also say that the slightly higher wattage of a T-5 18W lamp system run off an electronic ballast probably puts out the same heat as a T-8 15W lamp system since those old T-8 systems are usually magnetic ballasts with a starter and the ballast itself easily is going to be giving off several watts worth of heat compared to the much more efficient T-5 electronic ballast. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55108	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hi Tatts, Welcome to the group. On face value I would be very cautious about making any changes to an aquatic system or it's inhabitants if it has been running ok previously. That said, could you give us a little background about your inherited Pleco-how long have you had the fish & is it in the same tank that it has been in for the 5 years? Have you had fish keeping experience or are you a novice? John*<o)))<* On 7 July 2013 12:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello, I am tatts and new here. > I inherited a plecostomus. Its in a 30 gal tank and has been alone for at > least 5 yrs. I was thinking of adding a few little fish for company. > Will it get along with a school of little neons? I was thinking maybe 10 > at the most. The Aquarium is a 30 gal. > Thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55109	From: luvmylilguy83	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Have A Goldfish ?

Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55110	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hey John, Thanks for the welcome. I've had it for about 4 months. Yes its in the same tank since my brother had him in when he got it 5-6 years ago, but he did have other fish. My brother basically had different tetras in there. They've all passed now except for the pleco. After my brother passed his wife didn't want the tank so I took it. I think the pleco is about 5 inches long. Right before I got it the last black tetra died. I have had little 10 gal tanks before in the past. Little neon's/guppies and a betta tank once. I seen a sick betta about half dead sitting on a walmart shelf and the softy I am bought a 10 gal tank to put it in and he lived for 4 years. I do have a Japanese Koi pond in the backyard. I've had it with the same Koi I started with for 14 yrs. I don't know a thing about pleco's. I asked the pet store owner and he told me they were community fish but I also know the guy is running a business as well. lol I've read conflicting infor on the web. I feed it the algae wafers and give it a zucchini once a week. Its seems happy enough. Is there anything else it likes to munch on? Tatts -------------------------------------------------- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:31 PM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus > Hi Tatts, > > Welcome to the group. On face value I would be very cautious about making > any changes to an aquatic system or it's inhabitants if it has been > running > ok previously. That said, could you give us a little background about > your > inherited Pleco-how long have you had the fish & is it in the same tank > that it has been in for the 5 years? Have you had fish keeping experience > or are you a novice? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 7 July 2013 12:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> Hello, I am tatts and new here. >> I inherited a plecostomus. Its in a 30 gal tank and has been alone for at >> least 5 yrs. I was thinking of adding a few little fish for company. >> Will it get along with a school of little neons? I was thinking maybe 10 >> at the most. The Aquarium is a 30 gal. >> Thanks >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55111	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

You might want to grab a newspaper and check the adds to see if anyone is thinning out their tank. Sometimes I see people trying to give away goldfish or fish in general. Or there selling them pretty cheap. Their usually in better health than some I've seen in pet stores. If you do go to someone's home don't go alone or make sure you tell someone where you are going. I don't mean to scare you but its better to be wise than sorry. Or try your local pet store. Tatts From: luvmylilguy83 Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:26 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ? Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55112	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

On 7/7/2013 7:26 PM, luvmylilguy83 wrote: > > Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? > > > Reply via web post > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMGtzN29wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU1MTA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI0MzI0Ng--?act=reply&messageNum=55109> > Reply to sender > <mailto:luvmylilguy83@...?subject=Re%3A%20Have%20A%20Goldfish%20%3F> > Reply to group > <mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Have%20A%20Goldfish%20%3F> > Start a New Topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlazJ2dXI1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI0MzI0Ng--> > Messages in this topic > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/55109;_ylc=X3oDMTM2YzZvaDIyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBG1zZ0lkAzU1MTA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI0MzI0NgR0cGNJZAM1NTEwOQ--> > (1) > > Recent Activity: > > * New Members > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZzZpZm44BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNzMyNDMyNDY-?o=6> > 7 > > Visit Your Group > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife;_ylc=X3oDMTJlanNoaW1jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg0OTUxNTcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQyNzUyBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM3MzI0MzI0Ng--> > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Plea where are you located? if you are near the boston area there are a couple of places that have what you are looking for > ity is a lot like nuclear power; it can be used for good or evil but > either way you wouldn't want to get any on you>" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55113	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

If you live in nw louisiana my friend has a huge gold fish shes re homing Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com luvmylilguy83 <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55114	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hi Tatts, I am by no means an expert in Plecos as I keep streamlined Goldfish but it sounds like you have things well under control with his tank. As to introducing new tank mates hopefully someone else on here can jump in & advise you about that because as well as territorial issues there is also the danger of introducing ailments or pathogens from new fish. I agree about the conflicting info out there but you have come to the right place here. You do well to be wary of the fish store advice, far too many seller will tell the punter what he wants to hear instead of the truth which can often result in suffering for both fish & new owners. Well done for giving that Betta a happy home, 4 years is an excellent record. I'd be interested to hear a little about your pond. John*<o)))<* On 8 July 2013 01:51, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey John, > Thanks for the welcome. > I've had it for about 4 months. Yes its in the same tank since my brother > had him in when he got it 5-6 years ago, but he did have other fish. > My brother basically had different tetras in there. They've all passed now > except for the pleco. After my brother passed his wife didn't want the > tank > so I took it. > I think the pleco is about 5 inches long. Right before I got it the last > black tetra died. > I have had little 10 gal tanks before in the past. Little neon's/guppies > and > a betta tank once. I seen a sick betta about half dead sitting on a > walmart > shelf and the softy I am bought a 10 gal tank to put it in and he lived > for > 4 years. > I do have a Japanese Koi pond in the backyard. I've had it with the same > Koi > I started with for 14 yrs. > I don't know a thing about pleco's. I asked the pet store owner and he > told > me they were community fish but I also know the guy is running a business > as > well. lol > I've read conflicting infor on the web. > I feed it the algae wafers and give it a zucchini once a week. Its seems > happy enough. Is there anything else it likes to munch on? > > Tatts > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:31 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus > > > Hi Tatts, > > > > Welcome to the group. On face value I would be very cautious about making > > any changes to an aquatic system or it's inhabitants if it has been > > running > > ok previously. That said, could you give us a little background about > > your > > inherited Pleco-how long have you had the fish & is it in the same tank > > that it has been in for the 5 years? Have you had fish keeping experience > > or are you a novice? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 7 July 2013 12:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Hello, I am tatts and new here. > >> I inherited a plecostomus. Its in a 30 gal tank and has been alone for > at > >> least 5 yrs. I was thinking of adding a few little fish for company. > >> Will it get along with a school of little neons? I was thinking maybe 10 > >> at the most. The Aquarium is a 30 gal. > >> Thanks > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55115	From: Amber	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

That pleco is close to maxing out that tank, I hope he's fully grown and not one of the foot long varieties ;) I've heard of people keeping pleco's in ponds, but not sure how cold your pond gets in the winter, he may not winter over as well as the Koi do. About all you might change for your pleco is add him/her a piece of drift wood. Almost all pleco's are wood eaters to some degree or another, some eat a lot more wood than other types. A school of neons wouldn't over populate the tank too much and would be a good start for adding fish to the tank, make sure you don't add the whole school at once, get a few fish, then a few more in a week or two. That way the nitrifying bacteria has time to regrow inside the filter to accommodate the new fish and not affect the tank too drastically. Oh and welcome to the group :) Amber On 7/7/2013 4:51 PM, tattsmc wrote: > > Hey John, > Thanks for the welcome. > I've had it for about 4 months. Yes its in the same tank since my brother > had him in when he got it 5-6 years ago, but he did have other fish. > My brother basically had different tetras in there. They've all passed > now > except for the pleco. After my brother passed his wife didn't want the > tank > so I took it. > I think the pleco is about 5 inches long. Right before I got it the last > black tetra died. > I have had little 10 gal tanks before in the past. Little > neon's/guppies and > a betta tank once. I seen a sick betta about half dead sitting on a > walmart > shelf and the softy I am bought a 10 gal tank to put it in and he > lived for > 4 years. > I do have a Japanese Koi pond in the backyard. I've had it with the > same Koi > I started with for 14 yrs. > I don't know a thing about pleco's. I asked the pet store owner and he > told > me they were community fish but I also know the guy is running a > business as > well. lol > I've read conflicting infor on the web. > I feed it the algae wafers and give it a zucchini once a week. Its seems > happy enough. Is there anything else it likes to munch on? > > Tatts > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55116	From: joe t	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

Thank you, Dawn. That was very informative. Now I have a better insight as to what I am looking for in a "bulb" or any kind of lighting. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55117	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

aww no i live in fort worth,tx :/ ________________________________ From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ?   If you live in nw louisiana my friend has a huge gold fish shes re homing Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com luvmylilguy83 <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55118	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

Ok thats like 4 hrs from here Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com Erica Franklin <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >aww no i live in fort worth,tx :/ > > >________________________________ > From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:47 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ? > > > >  >If you live in nw louisiana my friend has a huge gold fish shes re homing >Jhanea >Cody .SD > >http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >luvmylilguy83 <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: > >>Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55119	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

if she didnt live that far i would get it for sure :) ________________________________ From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ?   Ok thats like 4 hrs from here Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com Erica Franklin <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >aww no i live in fort worth,tx :/ > > >________________________________ > From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:47 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ? > > > >  >If you live in nw louisiana my friend has a huge gold fish shes re homing >Jhanea >Cody .SD > >http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >luvmylilguy83 <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: > >>Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55120	From: rachell7	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Lighting suggestions please!

WOW! Thank you, thank you everyone for all the insightful information! Who would have thought lighting could be so complex! I have red wags in my 10 gallon tank and a few live plants. I like to keep it covered after finding that the bumblebee fish (or at least that was what PetCo called them!) I had purchased a couple of years ago like to jump! OMG! I had no idea that fish could jump like that or get thru such small openings! You've all been wonderful and I will have to think about everything you've pointed out and check costs and etc. before I decide which direction to go in. And thank re: the information about the quality of the LED lights! I was seriously thinking of going in that direction after seeing Dawn's pictures, but I will certainly re-think that! For now the hood I borrowed with the florescent light is working well. And I also now realize why the sword plants I had tired to grow didn't do well when my friend had no problem with them in his tank. It was the lighting - mystery solved! Thanks again for taking so much time to answer my question! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > Thank you, Dawn. That was very informative. Now I have a better insight as to what I am looking for in a "bulb" or any kind of lighting. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55121	From: Jhanea	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Have A Goldfish ?

Ok Jhanea Cody .SD http://myfurkidz.webs.com Erica Franklin <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >if she didnt live that far i would get it for sure :) > > >________________________________ > From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> >To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:17 PM >Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ? > > > >  >Ok thats like 4 hrs from here >Jhanea >Cody .SD > >http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >Erica Franklin <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: > >>aww no i live in fort worth,tx :/ >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> >>To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >>Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:47 PM >>Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Have A Goldfish ? >> >> >> >>  >>If you live in nw louisiana my friend has a huge gold fish shes re homing >>Jhanea >>Cody .SD >> >>http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >>luvmylilguy83 <luvmylilguy83@...> wrote: >> >>>Im looking for big fancy goldfish anyone know a good place? >>> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55122	From: Enid Rodriguez	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hey! I have had a pleco for the last 13 years. S/he loves zucchini. Mine is huge, over a foot long. The tank is overloaded with plants it wont eat and 2 large pieces of driftwood; they DO enjoy nibbling on the wood.  His tankmates, at present are guppies. Before that I had platties and swordtails. His tankmates are temporary fish; I get a few and care for them until they die out. If you have a common pleco he doesn't need a same species tankmate; they are territorial and don't exactly like sharing, plus you would need a very large tank to deal with the waste. It's diet consists of vegetables (zucchini, yellow squash) and homemade gel food that is mostly veggies, but I do add wild caught shrimp (shells and all) from the frozen food section of the supermarket. What I use for my gel food is kale, packaged frozen mixed veggies and shrimp and of course the knox unflavored gelatin. Other people cook the food, I thaw it and process it raw then dissolve the 4 gelatin packs in about 3 2 cups of boiling water , mix and mold. You can find many gel food recipes on the web. That, in a nutshell is what I use. Enjoy your pleco! They are long lived and interesting fish on their own. Enid ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 5:35 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus Hi Tatts,   I am by no means an expert in Plecos as I keep streamlined Goldfish but it sounds like you have things well under control with his tank. As to introducing new tank mates hopefully someone else on here can jump in & advise you about that because as well as territorial issues there is also the danger of introducing ailments or pathogens from new fish. I agree about the conflicting info out there but you have come to the right place here. You do well to be wary of the fish store advice, far too many seller will tell the punter what he wants to hear instead of the truth which can often result in suffering for both fish & new owners. Well done for giving that Betta a happy home, 4 years is an excellent record. I'd be interested to hear a little about your pond.   John*<o)))<* On 8 July 2013 01:51, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey John, > Thanks for the welcome. > I've had it for about 4 months. Yes its in the same tank since my brother > had him in when he got it 5-6 years ago, but he did have other fish. > My brother basically had different tetras in there. They've all passed now > except for the pleco. After my brother passed his wife didn't want the > tank > so I took it. > I think the pleco is about 5 inches long. Right before I got it the last > black tetra died. > I have had little 10 gal tanks before in the past. Little neon's/guppies > and > a betta tank once. I seen a sick betta about half dead sitting on a > walmart > shelf and the softy I am bought a 10 gal tank to put it in and he lived > for > 4 years. > I do have a Japanese Koi pond in the backyard. I've had it with the same > Koi > I started with for 14 yrs. > I don't know a thing about pleco's. I asked the pet store owner and he > told > me they were community fish but I also know the guy is running a business > as > well. lol > I've read conflicting infor on the web. > I feed it the algae wafers and give it a zucchini once a week. Its seems > happy enough. Is there anything else it likes to munch on? > > Tatts > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 7:31 PM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus > > > Hi Tatts, > > > > Welcome to the group. On face value I would be very cautious about making > > any changes to an aquatic system or it's inhabitants if it has been > > running > > ok previously. That said, could you give us a little background about > > your > > inherited Pleco-how long have you had the fish & is it in the same tank > > that it has been in for the 5 years? Have you had fish keeping experience > > or are you a novice? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 7 July 2013 12:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> Hello, I am tatts and new here. > >> I inherited a plecostomus. Its in a 30 gal tank and has been alone for > at > >> least 5 yrs. I was thinking of adding a few little fish for company. > >> Will it get along with a school of little neons? I was thinking maybe 10 > >> at the most. The Aquarium is a 30 gal. > >> Thanks > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55123	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hey John, My Koi pond is 20x24 feet and 4 ft in the center, 3 ft on the edges. It started 14 years ago when I bought 1 of those perform ponds from home depot and bought a couple of Koi from a pet store not educating myself and going on what the seller said. Needless to say my 2 Koi outgrew the perform in no time. So after reading everything and talking to a couple people on Koi pond sites I grabbed a shovel and didn't stop until a week later. lol I have the same 2 Koi I started out with. 1 is 27 inches long and the other is 22 inches. I have a biological filtration system and 2 uv lights that keeps the water crystal clear. I have 2 resident grass snakes that live out by the pond that help thin out the babies being born every year, along with a bull frog. I give some away but always make sure I tell people they are not aquarium fish, they are "pond" fish. Txs for asking Tatts -------------------------------------------------- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 6:35 AM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus > Hi Tatts, > > I am by no means an expert in Plecos as I keep streamlined Goldfish but > it sounds like you have things well under control with his tank. As to > introducing new tank mates hopefully someone else on here can jump in & > advise you about that because as well as territorial issues there is also > the danger of introducing ailments or pathogens from new fish. I agree > about the conflicting info out there but you have come to the right place > here. You do well to be wary of the fish store advice, far too many seller > will tell the punter what he wants to hear instead of the truth which can > often result in suffering for both fish & new owners. > > Well done for giving that Betta a happy home, 4 years is an excellent > record. I'd be interested to hear a little about your pond. > > John*<o)))<* > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55124	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hey Amber, Txs for he welcome. The pleco is the same size as it was the last 1.5 years. I don't think its going to grow anymore. I don't think I'll try the pond for the pleco. Although I live in the south a friend of mine put her pleco in her pond and it didn't do well. My pond is way to big and I would hate to have to hunt it down. Plus I wouldn't want it to get into the bottom drain and get stuck. I'll have to find it some driftwood now that I know. Txs Tatts From: Amber Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:39 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus That pleco is close to maxing out that tank, I hope he's fully grown and not one of the foot long varieties ;) I've heard of people keeping pleco's in ponds, but not sure how cold your pond gets in the winter, he may not winter over as well as the Koi do. About all you might change for your pleco is add him/her a piece of drift wood. Almost all pleco's are wood eaters to some degree or another, some eat a lot more wood than other types. A school of neons wouldn't over populate the tank too much and would be a good start for adding fish to the tank, make sure you don't add the whole school at once, get a few fish, then a few more in a week or two. That way the nitrifying bacteria has time to regrow inside the filter to accommodate the new fish and not affect the tank too drastically. Oh and welcome to the group :) Amber On 7/7/2013 4:51 PM, tattsmc wrote: > > Hey John, > Thanks for the welcome. > I've had it for about 4 months. Yes its in the same tank since my brother > had him in when he got it 5-6 years ago, but he did have other fish. > My brother basically had different tetras in there. They've all passed > now > except for the pleco. After my brother passed his wife didn't want the > tank > so I took it. > I think the pleco is about 5 inches long. Right before I got it the last > black tetra died. > I have had little 10 gal tanks before in the past. Little > neon's/guppies and > a betta tank once. I seen a sick betta about half dead sitting on a > walmart > shelf and the softy I am bought a 10 gal tank to put it in and he > lived for > 4 years. > I do have a Japanese Koi pond in the backyard. I've had it with the > same Koi > I started with for 14 yrs. > I don't know a thing about pleco's. I asked the pet store owner and he > told > me they were community fish but I also know the guy is running a > business as > well. lol > I've read conflicting infor on the web. > I feed it the algae wafers and give it a zucchini once a week. Its seems > happy enough. Is there anything else it likes to munch on? > > Tatts > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55125	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hey Enid, Your pleco has lived a long life! And its huge! I know mine won't get that big as it doesn't seem like it hasn't grown any the last 1.5 yrs. At least I hope not or I'll have to invest in a bigger tank and hubby won't like that. lol Thanks for the recipe. I'll have to make that next time I'm out shopping and see what he thinks of it. Tatts From: Enid Rodriguez Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:46 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus Hey! I have had a pleco for the last 13 years. S/he loves zucchini. Mine is huge, over a foot long. The tank is overloaded with plants it wont eat and 2 large pieces of driftwood; they DO enjoy nibbling on the wood. His tankmates, at present are guppies. Before that I had platties and swordtails. His tankmates are temporary fish; I get a few and care for them until they die out. If you have a common pleco he doesn't need a same species tankmate; they are territorial and don't exactly like sharing, plus you would need a very large tank to deal with the waste. It's diet consists of vegetables (zucchini, yellow squash) and homemade gel food that is mostly veggies, but I do add wild caught shrimp (shells and all) from the frozen food section of the supermarket. What I use for my gel food is kale, packaged frozen mixed veggies and shrimp and of course the knox unflavored gelatin. Other people cook the food, I thaw it and process it raw then dissolve the 4 gelatin packs in about 3 2 cups of boiling water , mix and mold. You can find many gel food recipes on the web. That, in a nutshell is what I use. Enjoy your pleco! They are long lived and interesting fish on their own. Enid [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55126	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: plecostomus

Hi Tatts, Thanks for telling us about your pond, I always find it heartening to hear about long lived fish & yours are still very much young fish at 14-I bet they are pampered! I used to have a couple of Plecos in with my Goldfish, a Highfin who was growing at a rate of knots & a small Rubbernose. They now live in a friend's 40 gallon tropical community tank. John*<o)))<* On 9 July 2013 03:07, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey John, > My Koi pond is 20x24 feet and 4 ft in the center, 3 ft on the edges. > It started 14 years ago when I bought 1 of those perform ponds from home > depot and bought a couple of Koi from a pet store not educating myself and > going on what the seller said. > Needless to say my 2 Koi outgrew the perform in no time. So after reading > everything and talking to a couple people on Koi pond sites I grabbed a > shovel and didn't stop until a week later. lol > I have the same 2 Koi I started out with. 1 is 27 inches long and the > other > is 22 inches. > I have a biological filtration system and 2 uv lights that keeps the water > crystal clear. > I have 2 resident grass snakes that live out by the pond that help thin > out > the babies being born every year, along with a bull frog. > I give some away but always make sure I tell people they are not aquarium > fish, they are "pond" fish. > Txs for asking > > Tatts > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 6:35 AM > > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plecostomus > > > Hi Tatts, > > > > I am by no means an expert in Plecos as I keep streamlined Goldfish but > > it sounds like you have things well under control with his tank. As to > > introducing new tank mates hopefully someone else on here can jump in & > > advise you about that because as well as territorial issues there is also > > the danger of introducing ailments or pathogens from new fish. I agree > > about the conflicting info out there but you have come to the right place > > here. You do well to be wary of the fish store advice, far too many > seller > > will tell the punter what he wants to hear instead of the truth which can > > often result in suffering for both fish & new owners. > > > > Well done for giving that Betta a happy home, 4 years is an excellent > > record. I'd be interested to hear a little about your pond. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55127	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Happenings.

It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. The contemplations continue. I have some reading to do. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55128	From: rachell7	Date: 7/15/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

Wow, you are ambitious! Where did you get your plants? Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. > We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. > They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. > There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. > It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. > The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. > The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. > I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. > > The contemplations continue. > > I have some reading to do. :-)>>> > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55129	From: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published

Fauna Palaestina - Part 3 (ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7). The Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 - 2012 Das Buch: Fauna Palaestina - Teil Drei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 2005 - 2012 By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7 Website of the Book: Fauna Palaestina – Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 – 2012 (ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7): http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart3.htm Published: First Edition, July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H Erschienen: Erste Auflage, Juli 2013, Shaaban 1434 H Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem (Al Quds), State of Palestine Tel. 00972-542263454, info@..., www.aljundi.biz Copyright © 2013 by Al Jundi Publishing House. Jerusalem, State of Palestine Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H, ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7, Hardcover. 1. Auflage / First Edition: 364 Seiten / Pages (English / German Part 350 Pages and the Arabic Part 14 Pages). zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen (Numerous black and white photography). Format: 24.5 x 17,5 cm, Gewicht (Weight): 675 gram. Preis: 40,00 Euro. E-mail of the Author: Jaffacity@... English / German Cover: A Wolf at Qalqilia Zoo, Qalqilia, Palestine in 2011. Photograph by Mr. Imad Atrash, the Executive Director of the Palestine Wildlife Society, Beit Sahour, State of Palestine. Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Mrs. Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Printed and bound in Al Quds (Jerusalem), State of Palestine. Preface: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL Packed into Palestine's small area are snow-covered mountains, parched deserts, fertile fields, lush woodlands and long stretches of sand dunes. No less than four different geographical zones are included in Palestine, and the country's climate ranges from semi-arid to temperate to subtropical. All of this makes Palestine home to a stunning variety of plants and animals. Some 47,000 living species have been identified in Palestine, with another 4,000 assumed to exist. There are 116 species of mammals native to Palestine, 511 kinds of birds, 97 types of reptiles and nine types of amphibians. Some 2,780 types of plants grow countrywide, from Alpine flowers on northern mountain slopes to bright red coral peonies and desert papyrus reeds in the south. My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". I was especially interested in the Arabian Wildlife, and in particular, in my Homeland Palestine. My first zoological article about the Palestinian Fauna dates back to February 1983. The article was entitled "The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula", and was published in the Palestinian "Al Khalisah" Bulletin, Kuwait University. Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide (ISSN 0178 – 6288). My first zoological article in "Gazelle" was about "Order Lagomorpha in Palestine". Till now 100 "Gazelle" Issues were published; and many of my articles were about Palestinian Animals. Finally, and after more than 34 years in Zoological research and studies, in Palestine and many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my zoological books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin in July 2004, Aquatica Arabica in August 2005, Mammalia Arabica in July 2006, Felidae Arabica in July 2007, Carnivora Arabica in September 2008, Fauna Palaestina – Part One in September 2009, Fauna Emiratus – Part One in November 2010, and my eighth book Fauna Palaestina – Part Two which was published by Dar Al Jundi Publishing House in Al Quds (Jerusalem), Palestine in July 2012; I finally decided to publish my newest scientific book in the Holy City of Jerusalem, Palestine, containing selected "Palestinian" research and articles which were published between 2005 - 2012. It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in Palestine. But recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and efforts to conserve the Palestinian Fauna. Palestinian animals lived with humans for thousands of years. There are a lot of stories concerning Prophets with Palestinian animals, which were mentioned in the Holy Quran, Bible and Torah. I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna Palaestina", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Palestinian and Arabian Fauna. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-von Jaffa. Al Quds (Jerusalem), the Capital of the State of Palestine and the Capital of Arab Culture. 05th July 2013 (My 51th Birthday). About the Author: A Palestinian-German Zoologist Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian-German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. His family originally comes from Al Eizariya (Bethany), east of Al Quds (Jerusalem), Palestine. The family then moved to the city of Jaffa, Palestine before 1948. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" (ISSN 0178-6288), the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of nine books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009), Fauna Emiratus – Part One (2010), Fauna Palaestina – Part Two (2012), Fauna Palaestina – Part Three (2013), and the co-author of the book "Palestine: A Guide" (2005/2006). He discovered and scientifically named five new animal subspecies. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates; and the Arabian or Emirati Four-Tusked Elephant Fossil († Stegotetrabelodon syrticus emiratus Khalaf, 2010) from the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. He is working now as a free Scientific Researcher, Publisher and Tourist Guide in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (14 Years). Contents of the book: English / German Articles: 1. Preface 2. About the Author: A Palestinian-German Zoologist 3. Mammalia Palaestina: The Mammals of Palestine / Die Säugetiere Palästinas 4. Israel uses the Eland Antelope (Taurotragus oryx) as a new front line force to protect the Israeli-Lebanese border 5. The Mediterranean Monk Seal (Monachus monachus, Hermann 1779) in Palestinian, Mediterranean and Atlantic Waters 6. Carnivora Palaestina: The Carnivores of Palestine / Die Raubtiere Palästinas 7. Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008: A New Golden Jackal Subspecies from the Gaza Strip, Palestine 8. Rodentia Palaestina: The Rodents of Palestine 9. Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007: A New House Mouse Subspecies from the Gaza Strip, Palestine 10. Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine 11. Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus Lilljeborg, 1861) sighted off the Mediterranean Coast of Palestine 12. The Story of Prophet Yunus (Jonah) and the Whale 13. The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa 14. The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish 15. An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea 16. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf) 17. Amphibia Palaestina: The Amphibians of Palestine 18. The Palestinian Frogs and Toads 19. The Extinction of the Palestinian or Hula Painted Frog (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943): The Result of Israeli Drainage of the Lake Hula 20. Das Aussterben der Palästinensischer Scheibenzüngler oder Hulesee- Scheibenzüngler (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943): Das Resultat der Israelischen Trockenlegung des Hulesees 21. The Re-Discovery of the Palestinian or Hula Painted Frog (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943) in Palestine Author & Webmaster : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa (2013).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55130	From: Desire`	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Koi pond question

Hi everyone! As some may remember, I wrote in awhile back about building a koi pond. It was completed in March and we put the three kois in it in April. They LOVE all the space they have now!! I will try to remember to post a pic of the finished product on the group page. The reason for my writing though.... I am hoping to add one or two more koi to my pond, but wondered if my system would support it since my pond isn’t large. My pond is 1645 gallons and 4 feet deep. It already has three koi in it. My filter is large enough to support a 4000 gallon pond. I also have a waterfall weir that filters but its primary use is for ‘looks’. Would this be sufficient to support one or two more koi? My pond is doing pretty well for a new pond (has a slight greenish tint to water- and I have a UV filter and I have barley in the pond) but I didn’t want to mess up and make a mess of the pond by adding another fish or two and it completely messing up the system. So I thought I’d ask here first. Thoughts? Desire’ In Louisiana Reply to sen Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 Visit Your Group AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55131	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published

Anyone else read this? soo you can talk about allah and the prophets ect. here ?... but you can't mention Jesus?... hmmmm... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf" <jaffacity@...> wrote: > > Fauna Palaestina - Part 3 (ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7). > > The Book: Fauna Palaestina - Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 - 2012 > > Das Buch: Fauna Palaestina - Teil Drei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 2005 - 2012 > > By: Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa > > ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7 > > Website of the Book: Fauna Palaestina – Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 – 2012 (ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7): > > http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart3.htm > > Published: First Edition, July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H > > Erschienen: Erste Auflage, Juli 2013, Shaaban 1434 H > > Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem (Al Quds), State of Palestine > > Tel. 00972-542263454, info@..., www.aljundi.biz > > Copyright © 2013 by Al Jundi Publishing House. Jerusalem, State of Palestine > > Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H, ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7, Hardcover. 1. Auflage / First Edition: 364 Seiten / Pages (English / German Part 350 Pages and the Arabic Part 14 Pages). zahlr. schwarz-weiß Abbildungen (Numerous black and white photography). Format: 24.5 x 17,5 cm, Gewicht (Weight): 675 gram. Preis: 40,00 Euro. > > E-mail of the Author: Jaffacity@... > > English / German Cover: A Wolf at Qalqilia Zoo, Qalqilia, Palestine in 2011. Photograph by Mr. Imad Atrash, the Executive Director of the Palestine Wildlife Society, Beit Sahour, State of Palestine. > > Cover Design / Umschlaggestaltung: Mrs. Ola Mostafa Khalaf. Dubai, United Arab Emirates. > > Printed and bound in Al Quds (Jerusalem), State of Palestine. > > > > Preface: > > IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL > > Packed into Palestine's small area are snow-covered mountains, parched deserts, fertile fields, lush woodlands and long stretches of sand dunes. No less than four different geographical zones are included in Palestine, and the country's climate ranges from semi-arid to temperate to subtropical. > > All of this makes Palestine home to a stunning variety of plants and animals. Some 47,000 living species have been identified in Palestine, with another 4,000 assumed to exist. There are 116 species of mammals native to Palestine, 511 kinds of birds, 97 types of reptiles and nine types of amphibians. Some 2,780 types of plants grow countrywide, from Alpine flowers on northern mountain slopes to bright red coral peonies and desert papyrus reeds in the south. > > My first published scientific article goes back to January 1980, when I was still a student in the Zoology Department at Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. The article was about "The Colouration of Animals". > I was especially interested in the Arabian Wildlife, and in particular, in my Homeland Palestine. My first zoological article about the Palestinian Fauna dates back to February 1983. The article was entitled "The Badger in Palestine and the Arabian Peninsula", and was published in the Palestinian "Al Khalisah" Bulletin, Kuwait University. > > Since that time, I had published many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, and established my own Palestinian Biological Bulletin. In July 1983, "Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" was created. It was the First Palestinian Scientific Journal Worldwide (ISSN 0178 – 6288). > My first zoological article in "Gazelle" was about "Order Lagomorpha in Palestine". Till now 100 "Gazelle" Issues were published; and many of my articles were about Palestinian Animals. > > Finally, and after more than 34 years in Zoological research and studies, in Palestine and many Arabic and European countries, and after publishing many scientific articles in different scientific books, magazines and bulletins, especially the "Gazelle Bulletin", and after publishing many articles in the Gazelle Bulletin Web Site, since 2001 under (www.gazelle.8m.net), and after publishing most of my articles on the internet under (www.webs.com), and after publishing my zoological books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin in July 2004, Aquatica Arabica in August 2005, Mammalia Arabica in July 2006, Felidae Arabica in July 2007, Carnivora Arabica in September 2008, Fauna Palaestina – Part One in September 2009, Fauna Emiratus – Part One in November 2010, and my eighth book Fauna Palaestina – Part Two which was published by Dar Al Jundi Publishing House in Al Quds (Jerusalem), Palestine in July 2012; I finally decided to publish my newest scientific book in the Holy City of Jerusalem, Palestine, containing selected "Palestinian" research and articles which were published between 2005 - 2012. > > It is hard to be optimistic about the future of Wildlife in Palestine. But recent years have shown the development of official and public interest, and efforts to conserve the Palestinian Fauna. Palestinian animals lived with humans for thousands of years. There are a lot of stories concerning Prophets with Palestinian animals, which were mentioned in the Holy Quran, Bible and Torah. > > I hope that I can participate with my new book to our knowledge about "Fauna Palaestina", and to help and to be part in protecting the endangered Palestinian and Arabian Fauna. > > > Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-von Jaffa. > > Al Quds (Jerusalem), the Capital of the State of Palestine and the Capital of Arab Culture. > > 05th July 2013 (My 51th Birthday). > > > > > About the Author: A Palestinian-German Zoologist > > Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa is a Palestinian-German Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist. Born in Saarbrücken, Saarland, Germany in 1962. His family originally comes from Al Eizariya (Bethany), east of Al Quds (Jerusalem), Palestine. The family then moved to the city of Jaffa, Palestine before 1948. Finished School in Kuwait. Studied Zoology, Geology and Ecology for the Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees at the Universities of Kuwait, Durham (England) and Ashwood (USA). Specialised in Animal Behaviour and Ecology. Done a lot of work and research in the Universities of Kuwait, Durham and Saarbrücken; and in the Zoos, Wild Parks and Field Studies in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, England, Scotland, Jersey Island, France, Austria, Switzerland and Germany. > > He is the author and publisher of "Gazelle : The Palestinian Biological Bulletin" (ISSN 0178-6288), the first Palestinian scientific journal worldwide (since 1983); and the author of nine books: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin (2004), Aquatica Arabica (2005), Mammalia Arabica (2006), Felidae Arabica (2007), Carnivora Arabica (2008), Fauna Palaestina – Part One (2009), Fauna Emiratus – Part One (2010), Fauna Palaestina – Part Two (2012), Fauna Palaestina – Part Three (2013), and the co-author of the book "Palestine: A Guide" (2005/2006). > > He discovered and scientifically named five new animal subspecies. Two Palestinian mammal subspecies from the Gaza Strip: The Gaza or Palestine House Mouse (Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007) and the Palestine Golden Jackal (Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008); and two Emirati freshwater fish subspecies: The Emirati or Wadi Al Wurayah Blind Cave Fish (Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009) and the Emirati or Bassam Khalaf's Tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009) from the Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates; and the Arabian or Emirati Four-Tusked Elephant Fossil († Stegotetrabelodon syrticus emiratus Khalaf, 2010) from the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. > > He is working now as a free Scientific Researcher, Publisher and Tourist Guide in the United Arab Emirates. He is married to Ola Khalaf and has one daughter, Nora (14 Years). > > > > Contents of the book: > > English / German Articles: > > 1. Preface > > 2. About the Author: A Palestinian-German Zoologist > > 3. Mammalia Palaestina: The Mammals of Palestine / Die Säugetiere Palästinas > > 4. Israel uses the Eland Antelope (Taurotragus oryx) as a new front line force to protect the Israeli-Lebanese border > > 5. The Mediterranean Monk Seal (Monachus monachus, Hermann 1779) in Palestinian, Mediterranean and Atlantic Waters > > 6. Carnivora Palaestina: The Carnivores of Palestine / Die Raubtiere Palästinas > > 7. Canis aureus palaestina Khalaf, 2008: A New Golden Jackal Subspecies from the Gaza Strip, Palestine > > 8. Rodentia Palaestina: The Rodents of Palestine > > 9. Mus musculus gazaensis Khalaf, 2007: A New House Mouse Subspecies from the Gaza Strip, Palestine > > 10. Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine > > 11. Gray Whale (Eschrichtius robustus Lilljeborg, 1861) sighted off the Mediterranean Coast of Palestine > > 12. The Story of Prophet Yunus (Jonah) and the Whale > > 13. The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa > > 14. The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish > > 15. An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea > > 16. Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf) > > 17. Amphibia Palaestina: The Amphibians of Palestine > > 18. The Palestinian Frogs and Toads > > 19. The Extinction of the Palestinian or Hula Painted Frog (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943): The Result of Israeli Drainage of the Lake Hula > > 20. Das Aussterben der Palästinensischer Scheibenzüngler oder Hulesee- Scheibenzüngler (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943): Das Resultat der Israelischen Trockenlegung des Hulesees > > 21. The Re-Discovery of the Palestinian or Hula Painted Frog (Discoglossus nigriventer, Mendelssohn and Steinitz 1943) in Palestine > > > Author & Webmaster : Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa (2013). >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55132	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

On the light, the maximum wattage refers to incandescent bulbs, the "old" type. With the newer CFL (compact fluorescent bulbs, those spiral ones) this is not an issue. Over a 10g two 10w CFK Daylight bulbs will be sufficient. I use this on my 10g and 20g and have excellent plant growth, even with floating plants too. I like the GE Daylight, but Phillips and Sylvania also make these. Just make sure it is the "daylight" or whatever they may individually call them, having a Kelvin of 6500K. This is the best light for aquarium plants. The 10w should be adequate, but there is alos a 13w, though I would start with the ten. You can get these at hardware and home supply stores. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. > We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. > They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. > There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. > It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. > The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. > The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. > I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. > > The contemplations continue. > > I have some reading to do. :-)>>> > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55133	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Hello Desire. I have had a koi pond for 14 yrs. It holds 5000 gals. 4ft deep in center. I understand the feeling of wanting to get another Koi. But please remember that you probably have a pair in the 3 you have and they will spawn as they get older. Go ahead and treat yourself and add 1 more if you want but I wouldn't add anymore after this one. I would take the time and pick out the "1" you truly want to have. Decide on the color and if you'd like a butterfly Koi. Those are beautiful. Remember more Koi means more waste in water. Also their growth depends on water quality and space. When they spawn you will have to decide what to do with the fry that live as well. Just my 2 cents. I'm in Ga and mostly during July to August when it’s the hottest here my water will get a slight hint of green. But after a couple of cloudy days its back to crystal clear. The pond does take direct hit of sun for a good 4 hours. I usually toss in some frozen watermelon for a cool treat and the Koi go crazy. That doesn't help the little green out in the pond. lol Tatts From: Desire` Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Hi everyone! As some may remember, I wrote in awhile back about building a koi pond. It was completed in March and we put the three kois in it in April. They LOVE all the space they have now!! I will try to remember to post a pic of the finished product on the group page. The reason for my writing though.... I am hoping to add one or two more koi to my pond, but wondered if my system would support it since my pond isn’t large. My pond is 1645 gallons and 4 feet deep. It already has three koi in it. My filter is large enough to support a 4000 gallon pond. I also have a waterfall weir that filters but its primary use is for ‘looks’. Would this be sufficient to support one or two more koi? My pond is doing pretty well for a new pond (has a slight greenish tint to water- and I have a UV filter and I have barley in the pond) but I didn’t want to mess up and make a mess of the pond by adding another fish or two and it completely messing up the system. So I thought I’d ask here first. Thoughts? Desire’ In Louisiana Reply to sen Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 Visit Your Group AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55134	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

Hi Al, I didn't have a clue what a dwarf corys was so I looked it up on youtube. Their cute! Good luck! Tatts From: Al Keep Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 3:27 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Happenings. It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. The contemplations continue. I have some reading to do. :-)>>> Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55135	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Hi Desire', What excellent news! I bet you are as pleased as your fish sound in their new home-very glad to hear everything went well. While you could quite easily add more Koi theoretically, there are some factors to bear in mind before you decide what to do. Adding new fish is always an exciting prospect but I have seen or heard of so many established systems that have been decimated by adding that one more 'special' fish, often because it was carrying something that the community had no immunity against. This is why it is always vital to quarantine any new stock [tank or pond] before adding & even then you are not 100% sure to be in the clear. Then there is the problem of introducing a 'new kid in town' to your close-knit group. They will obviously have their pecking order & be happy with their family unit because Carps [& probably most other fish too] have highly organised social structures, adding a newcomer could upset the balance which in turn could cause stress=white spot or any number of other potential problems. I'm not saying this will happen but it is a possibility & I know how fond you are of your animals, as I am of my 4 'indoor' pond fish! I agree with Tatts about the water dilution issue-if it's not broken, don't fix it. You really cannot over-filter Carps & even in your 1645 gallons, remember that your 3 Koi are each going to reach potentially 2.5 to 3 feet in length with the associated large amount of waste they will produce. Do you have the pond netted or use any other deterrent against predators such as electric fences or movement activated alarms? John*<o)))<* On 16 July 2013 17:44, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hello Desire. I have had a koi pond for 14 yrs. It holds 5000 gals. 4ft > deep in center. > I understand the feeling of wanting to get another Koi. > But please remember that you probably have a pair in the 3 you have and > they will spawn as they get older. > Go ahead and treat yourself and add 1 more if you want but I wouldn't add > anymore after this one. > I would take the time and pick out the "1" you truly want to have. Decide > on the color and if you'd like a butterfly Koi. Those are beautiful. > Remember more Koi means more waste in water. Also their growth depends on > water quality and space. When they spawn you will have to decide what to do > with the fry that live as well. > Just my 2 cents. > I'm in Ga and mostly during July to August when it’s the hottest here my > water will get a slight hint of green. But after a couple of cloudy days > its back to crystal clear. The pond does take direct hit of sun for a good > 4 hours. > I usually toss in some frozen watermelon for a cool treat and the Koi go > crazy. That doesn't help the little green out in the pond. lol > Tatts > > From: Desire` > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:58 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question > > > Hi everyone! > > As some may remember, I wrote in awhile back about building a koi pond. It > was completed in March and we put the three kois in it in April. They LOVE > all the space they have now!! I will try to remember to post a pic of the > finished product on the group page. > > The reason for my writing though.... > I am hoping to add one or two more koi to my pond, but wondered if my > system would support it since my pond isn’t large. My pond is 1645 gallons > and 4 feet deep. It already has three koi in it. My filter is large enough > to support a 4000 gallon pond. I also have a waterfall weir that filters > but its primary use is for ‘looks’. Would this be sufficient to support one > or two more koi? My pond is doing pretty well for a new pond (has a slight > greenish tint to water- and I have a UV filter and I have barley in the > pond) but I didn’t want to mess up and make a mess of the pond by adding > another fish or two and it completely messing up the system. So I thought > I’d ask here first. > > Thoughts? > > Desire’ In Louisiana > Reply to sen Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) > > Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 > Visit Your Group > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > . > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55136	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

Thanks tatts. there are 3 kinds of "dwarf" corries. I figure its only 10 gallon so I could get a fair size school of them... they're tiny... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tattsmc" <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > I didn't have a clue what a dwarf corys was so I looked it up on youtube. > Their cute! Good luck! > Tatts > > > From: Al Keep > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 3:27 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Happenings. > > > > It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. > We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. > They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. > There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. > It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. > The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. > The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. > I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. > > The contemplations continue. > > I have some reading to do. :-)>>> > > Al. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55137	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

Thanks Byron. that's a big help. and comforting to know it will be ok. I figured I had to use spiral cfl's cuzzz incandescents are no good for plants. I figured daylight would be better than soft white... but I'll check the Kelvin just to be sure also before I pick them up, thanks. I hear ya on the hardware store thing... what they want for them at the pet store is crazy... lol. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "amphibian_ca" <bhosking@...> wrote: > > On the light, the maximum wattage refers to incandescent bulbs, the "old" type. With the newer CFL (compact fluorescent bulbs, those spiral ones) this is not an issue. Over a 10g two 10w CFK Daylight bulbs will be sufficient. I use this on my 10g and 20g and have excellent plant growth, even with floating plants too. > > I like the GE Daylight, but Phillips and Sylvania also make these. Just make sure it is the "daylight" or whatever they may individually call them, having a Kelvin of 6500K. This is the best light for aquarium plants. The 10w should be adequate, but there is alos a 13w, though I would start with the ten. You can get these at hardware and home supply stores. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > It's been quiet here as of late, so I'll just give a little update. > > We went to Petsmart a couple weeks ago, to get the little tank on sale....10 gallon plus hood and light fixture for $20. > > They had none left, so we got a rain check. My wife picked it up last week, but on closer inspection, it had a big scratch in it. Well today she exchanged it after work and all seems fine. > > There was in fact though, no hurry in getting it, other than just getting it now since it was on sale. > > It may sit around for a month or so,..... because Lord help me... I've decided to plant it; and I'm not one to jump in with even just one foot, before researching thoroughly, something new that I want to get into. > > The wheels are spinning and I'm planning away.... root type wood, plants, couple rocks, and dwarf corys. > > The light fixture says on it "25 watts max." I'll try to contact the company.... top fin... to ask if that is per bulb, or total.... 12.5 per bulb?... hmmm seems odd. I've read that I would need 40-50 minimum for the rectangular "normal" shaped tank. So hopefully it's 2 25's. > > I plan on cutting the lid and attaching the l.e.d. thingy from the old tank as well; hopefully I will be ok with that and 2 25's if it will take that. > > > > The contemplations continue. > > > > I have some reading to do. :-)>>> > > > > Al. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55138	From: Desire`	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Thanks for the reply!! I didn’t really think about that. I wonder how I will be able to tell the differences with the three koi I have. How DO you tell the difference between the male and female koi fish? I might have three females or three males for all I know!! Elle and Ginger might be boys for all Iknow, poor things!! About how old are they when they start to reproduce? I have had Elle for a little over 2 years now and Spooks and Ginger for a year and a half. This is Elle’s third summer in an outside pond and only Spooks and Ginger’s second. I’ve kept them in a 60 gallon aquarium throughout the fall and winter (both this past year and year before), so they were still being fed and growing. Elle is about 9 or so inches; Ginger isn’t too far behind that, but Spooks is still pretty small as the other two get the food before ‘he’ does. Its hard to give exact measurements. You bring up some good points that I did not consider. I have decided not to add anymore fish to my pond. Especially considering I MAY have fry to take into consideration later on. I like to think ahead and yet did not even consider that scenario. I would not likely be able to keep any of them as they get bigger, lest I get another pond built and I do not see that happening as this isn’t MY home but my family’s home. I guess I will cross that bridge if/when I get there though. The pond is in direct sun for part of the day for a few hours. This fall we are adding a pergola top and putting canvas on top of it for the pond to be shaded. How do you do to keep the water temps from getting so hot? I worry about that with the extreme temps we get. I have an umbrella covering part of the pond and its 4 feet deep, but I tend to worry that the water temp is too hot for them at times. And I know the hotter temps does not help with oxygen levels, etc. I did not know that you can feed them fruit. Are there certain ones though to avoid? I really need to get a good book on raising kois, as not to bombard the group with so many questions!!! I will have to try watermelon for them. I don’t eat it, but I buy it for my parrots and rabbit, so why exclude the fish?!! They are such a joy to watch- so ferocious during feeding time! Love that! It didn’t take the biggest one (Elle) long before she started eating from my hand. Ginger (the orange one) seems to be wanting to follow suit , so we’ll see. Spooks is the smallest and as his name suggests, he’s not warmed up too much to humans just yet and can be quite skittish. Working on that though!! He will come around in his time, I’m sure. Elle and Ginger have kind of formed a bond it seems and are often found together whereas Spooks is normally somewhere by himself, but he will swim with the other two when its not feeding time. They seemed to all have formed a familiarity with each other so the new kid of the block might likely be excluded from the bunch. Elle was an only koi for awhile until it was suggested here to get her a tankmate, so I got Spooks and Ginger together. All good things though to take into consideration. This koi hobby can get addicting!!! To me though,- its all about the fish and keeping them happy, healthy and spoiled and I do get the enjoyment from watching them enjoy themselves in their new pond and grow more each season. I never realized just how fish can be such a pleasure to own! Since I am not getting anymore koi fish for this pond, I will start focusing my attention on cycling my 60 gallon tank (that currently sits empty) for a possible freshwater community tank or something- haven’t decided yet what kind of fish I’d like to put in there, but I definitely need to do that in the near future. I miss not having a fish indoors. I put a few pics of the pond and my koi fish on the group page. Its titled ‘ Elle the koi fish in Louisiana’. Yes, I have a net over the top of my pond. Since the pond is close to our house, its watched very often for possible predators. Excuse the stones I have on the edges. They are not attached yet- don’t worry, they hang more on the outside of the pond than the inside so I didn’t see any danger that the fish might get hurt with the stones on the edge. the net is going to be fixed better as well, just haven’t figured out HOW. I also ordered a bigger net (this one is a bit short on one of the ends) so when it comes in, the netting will be fixed better. Right now the stones is holding it in place. I think that about covers it. Desire’ in Louisiana From: tattsmc Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Hello Desire. I have had a koi pond for 14 yrs. It holds 5000 gals. 4ft deep in center. I understand the feeling of wanting to get another Koi. But please remember that you probably have a pair in the 3 you have and they will spawn as they get older. Go ahead and treat yourself and add 1 more if you want but I wouldn't add anymore after this one. I would take the time and pick out the "1" you truly want to have. Decide on the color and if you'd like a butterfly Koi. Those are beautiful. Remember more Koi means more waste in water. Also their growth depends on water quality and space. When they spawn you will have to decide what to do with the fry that live as well. Just my 2 cents. I'm in Ga and mostly during July to August when it’s the hottest here my water will get a slight hint of green. But after a couple of cloudy days its back to crystal clear. The pond does take direct hit of sun for a good 4 hours. I usually toss in some frozen watermelon for a cool treat and the Koi go crazy. That doesn't help the little green out in the pond. lol Tatts From: Desire` Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:58 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Hi everyone! As some may remember, I wrote in awhile back about building a koi pond. It was completed in March and we put the three kois in it in April. They LOVE all the space they have now!! I will try to remember to post a pic of the finished product on the group page. The reason for my writing though.... I am hoping to add one or two more koi to my pond, but wondered if my system would support it since my pond isn’t large. My pond is 1645 gallons and 4 feet deep. It already has three koi in it. My filter is large enough to support a 4000 gallon pond. I also have a waterfall weir that filters but its primary use is for ‘looks’. Would this be sufficient to support one or two more koi? My pond is doing pretty well for a new pond (has a slight greenish tint to water- and I have a UV filter and I have barley in the pond) but I didn’t want to mess up and make a mess of the pond by adding another fish or two and it completely messing up the system. So I thought I’d ask here first. Thoughts? Desire’ In Louisiana Reply to sen Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 Visit Your Group AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55139	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Hey Desire, From my own experience I couldn't tell my Koi sexes until they were around 3-4 yrs old and had started to spawn. My males is ( and shush you men ) a lot more slender and fast moving then my females. The females are more rounder and slower. Also the females are more trustworthy than the males. To keep my water temps down I have a huge pump, well more then I need and it feeds a waterfall and a sprinkler that shoots into the pond to lower water temps. I have a value on the sprinkle to where I can shut it off. Plus theres a huge tree that does shade the pond different hours of the day. But the sun does hit it about 4 hours. The Koi usually bunkers on the bottom of the pond and hangs out down there. I give my Koi little bit of treats now and again but have to stop myself. Every little treat can cause water changes. But they do love the watermelon. Not the rine. Cut that off. They like oranges. cut an orange in half and when they gobble the inside out take out the peel. They love cheerios. Chopped up shrimp. Just be careful how much you feed them. You don't want to over fed or cause damage to your water. Also it can cause an algal bloom. I'll check out your album tomorrow. Its been a long day and I'm off to spend time with the family. Tatts From: Desire` Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:13 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Thanks for the reply!! I didn’t really think about that. I wonder how I will be able to tell the differences with the three koi I have. How DO you tell the difference between the male and female koi fish? I might have three females or three males for all I know!! Elle and Ginger might be boys for all Iknow, poor things!! About how old are they when they start to reproduce? I have had Elle for a little over 2 years now and Spooks and Ginger for a year and a half. This is Elle’s third summer in an outside pond and only Spooks and Ginger’s second. I’ve kept them in a 60 gallon aquarium throughout the fall and winter (both this past year and year before), so they were still being fed and growing. Elle is about 9 or so inches; Ginger isn’t too far behind that, but Spooks is still pretty small as the other two get the food before ‘he’ does. Its hard to give exact measurements. You bring up some good points that I did not consider. I have decided not to add anymore fish to my pond. Especially considering I MAY have fry to take into consideration later on. I like to think ahead and yet did not even consider that scenario. I would not likely be able to keep any of them as they get bigger, lest I get another pond built and I do not see that happening as this isn’t MY home but my family’s home. I guess I will cross that bridge if/when I get there though. The pond is in direct sun for part of the day for a few hours. This fall we are adding a pergola top and putting canvas on top of it for the pond to be shaded. How do you do to keep the water temps from getting so hot? I worry about that with the extreme temps we get. I have an umbrella covering part of the pond and its 4 feet deep, but I tend to worry that the water temp is too hot for them at times. And I know the hotter temps does not help with oxygen levels, etc. I did not know that you can feed them fruit. Are there certain ones though to avoid? I really need to get a good book on raising kois, as not to bombard the group with so many questions!!! I will have to try watermelon for them. I don’t eat it, but I buy it for my parrots and rabbit, so why exclude the fish?!! They are such a joy to watch- so ferocious during feeding time! Love that! It didn’t take the biggest one (Elle) long before she started eating from my hand. Ginger (the orange one) seems to be wanting to follow suit , so we’ll see. Spooks is the smallest and as his name suggests, he’s not warmed up too much to humans just yet and can be quite skittish. Working on that though!! He will come around in his time, I’m sure. Elle and Ginger have kind of formed a bond it seems and are often found together whereas Spooks is normally somewhere by himself, but he will swim with the other two when its not feeding time. They seemed to all have formed a familiarity with each other so the new kid of the block might likely be excluded from the bunch. Elle was an only koi for awhile until it was suggested here to get her a tankmate, so I got Spooks and Ginger together. All good things though to take into consideration. This koi hobby can get addicting!!! To me though,- its all about the fish and keeping them happy, healthy and spoiled and I do get the enjoyment from watching them enjoy themselves in their new pond and grow more each season. I never realized just how fish can be such a pleasure to own! Since I am not getting anymore koi fish for this pond, I will start focusing my attention on cycling my 60 gallon tank (that currently sits empty) for a possible freshwater community tank or something- haven’t decided yet what kind of fish I’d like to put in there, but I definitely need to do that in the near future. I miss not having a fish indoors. I put a few pics of the pond and my koi fish on the group page. Its titled ‘ Elle the koi fish in Louisiana’. Yes, I have a net over the top of my pond. Since the pond is close to our house, its watched very often for possible predators. Excuse the stones I have on the edges. They are not attached yet- don’t worry, they hang more on the outside of the pond than the inside so I didn’t see any danger that the fish might get hurt with the stones on the edge. the net is going to be fixed better as well, just haven’t figured out HOW. I also ordered a bigger net (this one is a bit short on one of the ends) so when it comes in, the netting will be fixed better. Right now the stones is holding it in place. I think that about covers it. Desire’ in Louisiana From: tattsmc Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Hello Desire. I have had a koi pond for 14 yrs. It holds 5000 gals. 4ft deep in center. I understand the feeling of wanting to get another Koi. But please remember that you probably have a pair in the 3 you have and they will spawn as they get older. Go ahead and treat yourself and add 1 more if you want but I wouldn't add anymore after this one. I would take the time and pick out the "1" you truly want to have. Decide on the color and if you'd like a butterfly Koi. Those are beautiful. Remember more Koi means more waste in water. Also their growth depends on water quality and space. When they spawn you will have to decide what to do with the fry that live as well. Just my 2 cents. I'm in Ga and mostly during July to August when it’s the hottest here my water will get a slight hint of green. But after a couple of cloudy days its back to crystal clear. The pond does take direct hit of sun for a good 4 hours. I usually toss in some frozen watermelon for a cool treat and the Koi go crazy. That doesn't help the little green out in the pond. lol Tatts From: Desire` Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:58 AM To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Koi pond question Hi everyone! As some may remember, I wrote in awhile back about building a koi pond. It was completed in March and we put the three kois in it in April. They LOVE all the space they have now!! I will try to remember to post a pic of the finished product on the group page. The reason for my writing though.... I am hoping to add one or two more koi to my pond, but wondered if my system would support it since my pond isn’t large. My pond is 1645 gallons and 4 feet deep. It already has three koi in it. My filter is large enough to support a 4000 gallon pond. I also have a waterfall weir that filters but its primary use is for ‘looks’. Would this be sufficient to support one or two more koi? My pond is doing pretty well for a new pond (has a slight greenish tint to water- and I have a UV filter and I have barley in the pond) but I didn’t want to mess up and make a mess of the pond by adding another fish or two and it completely messing up the system. So I thought I’d ask here first. Thoughts? Desire’ In Louisiana Reply to sen Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 Visit Your Group AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55140	From: Amber	Date: 7/16/2013
Subject: Re: Happenings.

Sometimes you might find bulbs listed as "full spectrum" too, these are usually just another term for Daylight spectrum. You'll want something in the 6000 - 6700 kelvin range (usually most daylight bulbs are 6500 or 6700 kelvin) Amber On 7/16/2013 1:30 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > Thanks Byron. that's a big help. and comforting to know it will be ok. > I figured I had to use spiral cfl's cuzzz incandescents are no good > for plants. I figured daylight would be better than soft white... but > I'll check the Kelvin just to be sure also before I pick them up, thanks. > I hear ya on the hardware store thing... what they want for them at > the pet store is crazy... lol. > > Al. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55142	From: Amber	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published

A warning email was sent to the person who posted the email. The post went through unmoderated, we (moderators) are looking into what happened and why. Amber On 7/16/2013 6:57 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > Anyone else read this? > soo you can talk about allah and the prophets ect. here ?... but you > can't mention Jesus?... hmmmm... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55143	From: Ray	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published

Additionally, he's been put on moderation. He's been a member since 2005, so we never suspected an off-topic remark. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > A warning email was sent to the person who posted the email. The post > went through unmoderated, we (moderators) are looking into what > happened and why. > > Amber > > On 7/16/2013 6:57 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > > > Anyone else read this? > > soo you can talk about allah and the prophets ect. here ?... but you > > can't mention Jesus?... hmmmm... > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55144	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published

TXS Amber and Ray. Good to know the mods are there to keep spam out. Tatts From: Amber Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:58 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: A New Book "Fauna Palaestina - Part 3" is published A warning email was sent to the person who posted the email. The post went through unmoderated, we (moderators) are looking into what happened and why. Amber On 7/16/2013 6:57 AM, Al Keep wrote: > > Anyone else read this? > soo you can talk about allah and the prophets ect. here ?... but you > can't mention Jesus?... hmmmm... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55145	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/17/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Hey Desire, I just looked at Your album. Your pond is lovely!! Koi seems happy. I only seen 1 thing that may be harmful. Theres a part in the water where it looked like the netting is in the water a little. If so you may want to lift that up if at all possible. Mine did that once and it snagged a Koi in the gill when it went to nibble something and turned?? is my guess. But when I went out it was hung up in the net. Love your ghost Koi. I lost mine this spring when I had them in a holding pool doing repairs on the pond. Broke my heart. It was 1 of my first fry I had kept. They stress out so easy esp when their big. Luckily only one I lost. Tatts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55147	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/18/2013
Subject: Re: Koi pond question

Hi Desire' There are several ways that I know to tell males from females but none of them are foolproof & I have seen or heard of examples that contradict these suggestions but they are guidelines. Males are more streamlined & symmetrical when viewed from above whereas females can be squat & asymmetrical. Depending on the time of year males can have gill tubercles or breeding stars. These are small pimples that appear on the gill plate & also around the eyes. Sometimes you even see these bumps on the leading edge of the pectoral fins. With males, the front ray on the pectoral fin can be thicker than the rest of the rays on the fin. Maybe around two years old before they start to reproduce but you could easily see chasing before that as they are playful fish. Typically the males chase the females but as with everything else 'fish' nothing is cut & dried. Single sex groups will still chase one-another & my female Common Goldfish chases the boys in her tank sometimes. I think you have made a good decision in not adding any more fish to the group, you are definitely in it for the long-haul & your fish will surely thank you for their splendid home. Elle & her friends could well live 70 years or more. With regard to your asking questions of the group-that is what we are here for! You will soon be hand feeding them all-Carps learn by example of one another & they will soon realise that Elle gets the lion's share via hand feeding. The same thing happened with my Goldfish, once Apricot started eating from my hand the others soon followed suit, even the timid Buttercup & now when my hand is in the tank-even for some maintenance-they are all nibbling at me! No wonder you are having fun raising your animals, Carps are very friendly & intelligent fish. A suggestion for attaching the net, how about having pegs attached to the wall that the net can be stretched across much like using a tarpaulin to secure goods on trucks. That way your net will be secure & still be very easy to gain access whenever you need to. Here is a good Koi info site that belonged to a now deceased friend of mine: http://www.fishhelpline.co.uk/index.html John*<o)))<* On 17 July 2013 18:46, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > > Hey Desire, > I just looked at Your album. Your pond is lovely!! Koi seems happy. I only > seen 1 thing that may be harmful. > Theres a part in the water where it looked like the netting is in the > water a little. If so you may want to lift that up if at all possible. > Mine did that once and it snagged a Koi in the gill when it went to nibble > something and turned?? is my guess. But when I went out it was hung up in > the net. > Love your ghost Koi. I lost mine this spring when I had them in a holding > pool doing repairs on the pond. Broke my heart. It was 1 of my first fry I > had kept. > They stress out so easy esp when their big. Luckily only one I lost. > > Tatts > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55148	From: Michelle	Date: 7/19/2013
Subject: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55149	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/20/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

A garage sale, really? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55150	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/21/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Hi Michelle, I think you have to just be lucky-certainly my female Common has often deposited eggs around the plants but they end up eating them all. Probably one of the other members can advise you better as I have no specific knowledge of how to achieve this. John*<o)))<* On 20 July 2013 20:17, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > A garage sale, really? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already > showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that > can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry > food, as well as a mop for the fry. > > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55151	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/21/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > A garage sale, really? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. > > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55152	From: Amber	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... Amber On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55153	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

I have a Koi pond in the backyard I keep my Koi in. But you can breed 'goldfish" in a tank. They need a thick batch of live spawning plants like hornwart or star weed to lay their eggs on. What size tank do you have? And they usually spawn during spring. tatts From: Amber Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 9:52 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... Amber On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > Dawn > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55154	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Pleco update

So I took everyones advice and went to the pet store and bought pleco a big piece of driftwood. It loves it. Kinda expensive for a piece of wood! $20. Hubby told me I could have walked out to the marsh and got a piece but I told him I'm not putting something out of the marsh in my tank! And I also added 6 neon tetras in there a week and a half ago but lost 2. 2 on the same day so my guess is from stress. I checked the water and everything is on a safe level. Last remaining neons seem happy and so does pleco. Tatts [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55155	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Regarding what Dawn was saying about using water changes as part of the egg-laying conditioning process, I notice my Goldfish always chase the female a few hours after a water change. John*<o)))<* On 23 July 2013 00:02, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have a Koi pond in the backyard I keep my Koi in. > But you can breed 'goldfish" in a tank. > They need a thick batch of live spawning plants like hornwart or star weed > to lay their eggs on. > What size tank do you have? And they usually spawn during spring. > > tatts > > From: Amber > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 9:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need > directiona > > > Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 > gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... > > Amber > > On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > Dawn > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55156	From: Just Micky	Date: 7/22/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Daily Partial water changes, if the females are carrying eggs, that is 50% or more. With Spring breeding tropicals I have Done a 50% change one day and 80% the next. Also Gold fish will eat their eggs unless they are very very well fed. If you are feeding all they will eat twice a day, you need to do 50% changes daily anyway. Micky -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 8:22 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona Regarding what Dawn was saying about using water changes as part of the egg-laying conditioning process, I notice my Goldfish always chase the female a few hours after a water change. John*<o)))<* On 23 July 2013 00:02, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have a Koi pond in the backyard I keep my Koi in. > But you can breed 'goldfish" in a tank. > They need a thick batch of live spawning plants like hornwart or star weed > to lay their eggs on. > What size tank do you have? And they usually spawn during spring. > > tatts > > From: Amber > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 9:52 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need > directiona > > > Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 > gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... > > Amber > > On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > Dawn > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55157	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

I will add a +1 to what Micky said about them eating their eggs, especially if this is a small 30 gallon tank, and more especially if there are multiple adult fish in there. A spawning mop or plants by themselves is not going to protect the eggs from being eaten, the fish will still find and get to them. 30 gallons is not really appropriate for keeping goldfish mature enough to spawn, much less for the actual spawning. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Just Micky" <Too_fishy@...> wrote: > > Daily Partial water changes, if the females are carrying eggs, that is 50% > or more. With Spring breeding tropicals I have Done a 50% change one day > and 80% the next. Also Gold fish will eat their eggs unless they are very > very well fed. If you are feeding all they will eat twice a day, you need > to do 50% changes daily anyway. > > Micky > > -----Original Message----- > From: SIMMONDS JOHN > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 8:22 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need > directiona > > Regarding what Dawn was saying about using water changes as part of the > egg-laying conditioning process, I notice my Goldfish always chase the > female a few hours after a water change. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 23 July 2013 00:02, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I have a Koi pond in the backyard I keep my Koi in. > > But you can breed 'goldfish" in a tank. > > They need a thick batch of live spawning plants like hornwart or star weed > > to lay their eggs on. > > What size tank do you have? And they usually spawn during spring. > > > > tatts > > > > From: Amber > > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 9:52 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need > > directiona > > > > > > Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 > > gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... > > > > Amber > > > > On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > > > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > > > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > > > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > > > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > > > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > > > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > > > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > > > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > > > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > > > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > > > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > > > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > > > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55158	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Amber, goldfish can spawn in an aquarium setting if it's appropriate and meets their needs, however, a 30 gallon tank is not appropriate for spawning goldfish. They should have something much larger. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 > gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... > > Amber > > On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55159	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: EMERGENCY

I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love whiskers with all my heart

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55160	From: tattsmc	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

I think the minimal would be a 50 gal and just a couple adult goldfish. I have a cousin that has had success breading a pair of goldfish in a 50 gal. She has Oranda Goldfish and Ryukin Goldfish. She said in March she picks out a pair and moves them to the 50 gal. She said they have to be at least 3 years old. She said after they spawn and the male fertilizes the eggs she moves the pair back to another tank. That she doesn't move the eggs to a different tank like most people. You take a chance on hurting the eggs. I remember like 15 years ago I had a beautiful 55 gal tank with nothing but 3 huge angelfish in it and they spawn. Dummy me left the eggs in it and yep. They ate em. Then my son thought the fish needed a bath and while I was cooking decided to put hair shampoo in the water. Oh I cried. they were beautiful. I had them for at least 6 years. tatts From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:45 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona I will add a +1 to what Micky said about them eating their eggs, especially if this is a small 30 gallon tank, and more especially if there are multiple adult fish in there. A spawning mop or plants by themselves is not going to protect the eggs from being eaten, the fish will still find and get to them. 30 gallons is not really appropriate for keeping goldfish mature enough to spawn, much less for the actual spawning. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Just Micky" <Too_fishy@...> wrote: > > Daily Partial water changes, if the females are carrying eggs, that is 50% > or more. With Spring breeding tropicals I have Done a 50% change one day > and 80% the next. Also Gold fish will eat their eggs unless they are very > very well fed. If you are feeding all they will eat twice a day, you need > to do 50% changes daily anyway. > > Micky Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest . Unsubscribe . Terms of Use . Send us Feedback . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55161	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

Hi all. I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. Anyone done anything like this before? Thanks all. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55162	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

I dont think so. The lady I bought them from said they have laid eggs before. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Do goldfish only spawn in a pond? I'm guessing tatts is using the 30 > gallon with the pleco in it for these goldfish, but I could be wrong... > > Amber > > On 7/21/2013 10:31 PM, dawnshungryeyes4u2c wrote: > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring > > would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, > > larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional > > needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of > > sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter > > hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a > > set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire > > yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime > > conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself > > and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > Dawn > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55163	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

They were going to flush them so I got them! Fish from others are best because they are less likely to get sick and die easily like fish from stores --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > A garage sale, really? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. > > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55164	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

well the males have got tubricles and will that encourage the females? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring would bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, larger water changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional needs, and even timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of sunlight hours from what they would experience during winter hibernation turning into the spring season. If they are already on a set schedule then you may very likely have to go through the entire yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back to springtime conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare yourself and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > A garage sale, really? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. > > > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55165	From: Ray	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

Al, As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi all. > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. > Anyone done anything like this before? > Thanks all. > > Al. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55166	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Hi Michelle, Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your side of the pond can help you out there real soon. I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the readings are for your tank? John*<o)))<* On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > ** > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > whiskers with all my heart > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55167	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: I want my goldfish to lay eggs - need directiona

Hi Michelle, You have done well to save those Goldfish from getting flushed. Regarding the tubercles on the males, they don't necessarily mean the fish is going to mate with a female, just that they are sexually mature. Are your Goldfish in the same tank as your Catfish? If so then they will likely have the same problems that need addressing-what size is the tank? John*<o)))<* On 23 July 2013 20:22, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > ** > > > well the males have got tubricles and will that encourage the females? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" > <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > > > Goldfish tend to be seasonal springtime breeders. The best way to > initiate breeding habits is to mimic the conditions of what spring would > bring to them in a pond or natural habitat. More frequent, larger water > changes, plenty of food meeting the right nutritional needs, and even > timing the lighting to mimic the lengthening of sunlight hours from what > they would experience during winter hibernation turning into the spring > season. If they are already on a set schedule then you may very likely have > to go through the entire yearly routine/cycle until you can bring them back > to springtime conditions again... so the best advice would be to prepare > yourself and them for a springtime spawning next season and work now to > condition them and keep it up until then. Conditioning any fish for > spawning is not a "fast" thing that can be done spur of the moment and > expect results. It takes time, planning, patience, and diligence. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > A garage sale, really? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I have at least 4 females able to lay eggs and 2 males that are > already showing their tubricles. Is there any way besides heating the water > that can encourage my females to lay eggs? I have 2 extra tanks for fry, > fry food, as well as a mop for the fry. > > > > (Today I got some fish at a garage sale and one was a mature male) > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55168	From: Michelle	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > readings are for your tank? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55169	From: harry perry	Date: 7/23/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ Try this. Harry ________________________________ From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY   The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > readings are for your tank? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55170	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Hi Michelle, You need to address the water quality issues in your tank or it is a waste of time treating your fish if they are exposed to high toxin levels. Tell us about your tank-what size, how often & how much water do you change etc. That way we will be more able to help you take care of the situation & your fish. John*<o)))<* On 24 July 2013 01:27, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > Try this. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > � > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on > your > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what > the > > readings are for your tank? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a > catfish > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I > love > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55171	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > Try this. > > Harry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > >   > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > readings are for your tank? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55172	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. Good luck with your fish. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > Try this. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > >   > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55173	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

Hi Ray. Thanks for the info. no it doesn't float, this kind sinks like a rock. both those things should work... I was also thinking maybe those plastic things they use to spread body filler on, and the weight of the substrate would give some more stability. I'd just have to find the right type of plastic... I've read that it has a # 1-7 on a plastic item, and that 1-4 is aqua safe.. I will check to see if I can get one of your two ideas around here. nylon screws... never heard of such a thing... good call. It's in the tank making tea water now... I change it every 12 hours.. the woman in the store said her experience was about a week till being tannin free enough. it comes from a place called zoo med... looks like they are into reptiles big, by their site... and fish a bit. I threw a few pics of it up in my folder. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Al, > > As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > Hi all. > > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. > > Anyone done anything like this before? > > Thanks all. > > > > Al. > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55174	From: Ray	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

Hi Al, I've heard nothing but good things about Zoo Med. African Mopani driftwood is quality stuff for the aquarium; best of luck with it. I guess I'm looking the wrong place to find your driftwooed pics. Your last entries in your photo album were on November 8, 2012, and I don't see it under files. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray. Thanks for the info. > no it doesn't float, this kind sinks like a rock. > both those things should work... I was also thinking maybe those plastic things they use to spread body filler on, and the weight of the substrate would give some more stability. I'd just have to find the right type of plastic... I've read that it has a # 1-7 on a plastic item, and that 1-4 is aqua safe.. I will check to see if I can get one of your two ideas around here. > nylon screws... never heard of such a thing... good call. > It's in the tank making tea water now... I change it every 12 hours.. the woman in the store said her experience was about a week till being tannin free enough. > it comes from a place called zoo med... looks like they are into reptiles big, by their site... and fish a bit. > > I threw a few pics of it up in my folder. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > Al, > > > > As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all. > > > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. > > > Anyone done anything like this before? > > > Thanks all. > > > > > > Al. > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55175	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Hi Ray & Dawn, Glad that you guys are looking after Michelle, as I said I don't know anything about Catfish & I assumed there was a large piece of his dorsal fin missing looking at those views she posted. I was also mystified about the relevance of that link-it was not only confusing & over-long but dated from 2006 so the medications listed could well be out of date by now. Michelle, please let us know how you get on. John*<o)))<* On 24 July 2013 13:04, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it > to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a > different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by > the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to > the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and > indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, > Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to > Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I > was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be > explained (in short) here? > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what > are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the > same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water > parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main > tank would be at risk. > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic > bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot > that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that > I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed > (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches > (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, > unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these > blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue > that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it > appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying > tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't > already as it's often a secondary infection. > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications > containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of > choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients > address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative > bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any > medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, > especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about > the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) > purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make > at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is > often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, > this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> > wrote: > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > Try this. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@...> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > � > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a > treatment > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on > your > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water > in > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial > water > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will > weaken > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what > the > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a > catfish > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! > I love > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55176	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Salimander Home set up

Okay my salamander has finally lost its little tree like whiskers and has gained a sripe and i wish to make my old fish tank into a home for it. I live in Seattle and I want some advice on setting up a home that is suitable for my baby. I have gravel and water that can be used.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55177	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > Good luck with your fish. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55178	From: Michelle	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

my tank is 50 gal. how many boxes of that (Jungle Labs Fungus Clear) treatment do I need? It says it has 8 tabs for 80 gal but is that for one day or the whole treatment? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > Try this. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > >   > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55179	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

I tried the pics again hopefully I got it right this time. :-)>>> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > I've heard nothing but good things about Zoo Med. African Mopani driftwood is quality stuff for the aquarium; best of luck with it. I guess I'm looking the wrong place to find your driftwooed pics. Your last entries in your photo album were on November 8, 2012, and I don't see it under files. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > Hi Ray. Thanks for the info. > > no it doesn't float, this kind sinks like a rock. > > both those things should work... I was also thinking maybe those plastic things they use to spread body filler on, and the weight of the substrate would give some more stability. I'd just have to find the right type of plastic... I've read that it has a # 1-7 on a plastic item, and that 1-4 is aqua safe.. I will check to see if I can get one of your two ideas around here. > > nylon screws... never heard of such a thing... good call. > > It's in the tank making tea water now... I change it every 12 hours.. the woman in the store said her experience was about a week till being tannin free enough. > > it comes from a place called zoo med... looks like they are into reptiles big, by their site... and fish a bit. > > > > I threw a few pics of it up in my folder. > > > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > Al, > > > > > > As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. > > > > Anyone done anything like this before? > > > > Thanks all. > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55180	From: sevenspringss	Date: 7/24/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Hi Michelle, Could you please clarify this? While I understand from your latest message, that you have a 50 gallon tank, in your second message (#55168 -- July 23. 2013 @ 8:14 PM EDT), you wrote: "The water was bad so I moved him. . . " So, buy this, I'm just assuming that Whiskers is no longer in your 50 gallon tank -- unless your hospital tank is 50 gallons (?). What size tank did you move Whiskers to? Did you move him to a 50 gallon tank? If so, don't you have a smaller, hospital tank, in which to treat individual fish? Normally, a full treatment consists of three doses -- sometimes administered on three successive days and at other times every other day. To determine the frequency (and number) of the doses, you'd need to refer to the directions on the medication's label. One tablet treats 10 gallons. Eight tablets will treat 80 gallons of water. If you're using a 50 gallon tank as a hospital tank, and you have no other option with this tank other than to keep it filled with 50 gallons of water, then your first dosage would be 5 tablets. You would need to buy one more box of this medication which, along with the three remaining tablets from the first box, would be enough for up to two more doses of 5 tablets per dose (with one tablet left over), but again you'll need to check the directions for the number of doses. Usually a hospital tank is no larger than 10 gallons, and quite often just 5 gallons or even 2 1/2 gallons. A 5 gallon tank would be large enough to medicate one "average" size fish in. Your Synodontis catfish would do better in a 10 gallon hospital tank. With a tank this size, it's extremely easy to administer medications, and many medication doses (capsule or tablet) are manufactured to treat just 10 gallons. With a 50 gallon hospital tank, unless you have a filter on it which would cease working if the water level fell, many hobbyists drop the water level to a depth of only 20 gallons (or even 10 gallons) to facilitate medicating with less (but adequate) medication. BTW, if your using a filter in your hospital tank, remove any carbon you may have in it. Otherwise, this carbon will remove the medication. Ray In a message dated 7/25/2013 12:09:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kittycathobbes@... writes: my tank is 50 gal. how many boxes of that (Jungle Labs Fungus Clear) treatment do I need? It says it has 8 tabs for 80 gal but is that for one day or the whole treatment? --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > Ray > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/ topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > Try this. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > Â > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55181	From: amphibian_ca	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: Salimander Home set up

We will need to know the species of "salamander." Many are terrestrial, some are aquatic, some like newts are both. Byron. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > Okay my salamander has finally lost its little tree like whiskers and has gained a sripe and i wish to make my old fish tank into a home for it. I live in Seattle and I want some advice on setting up a home that is suitable for my baby. I have gravel and water that can be used. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55182	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

The driftwood (Mopani) pics came through just fine. Real interesting looking piece. Adds to the natural look of the tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I tried the pics again hopefully I got it right this time. :-)>>> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > I've heard nothing but good things about Zoo Med. African Mopani driftwood is quality stuff for the aquarium; best of luck with it. I guess I'm looking the wrong place to find your driftwooed pics. Your last entries in your photo album were on November 8, 2012, and I don't see it under files. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ray. Thanks for the info. > > > no it doesn't float, this kind sinks like a rock. > > > both those things should work... I was also thinking maybe those plastic things they use to spread body filler on, and the weight of the substrate would give some more stability. I'd just have to find the right type of plastic... I've read that it has a # 1-7 on a plastic item, and that 1-4 is aqua safe.. I will check to see if I can get one of your two ideas around here. > > > nylon screws... never heard of such a thing... good call. > > > It's in the tank making tea water now... I change it every 12 hours.. the woman in the store said her experience was about a week till being tannin free enough. > > > it comes from a place called zoo med... looks like they are into reptiles big, by their site... and fish a bit. > > > > > > I threw a few pics of it up in my folder. > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Al, > > > > > > > > As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be though. > > > > > Anyone done anything like this before? > > > > > Thanks all. > > > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55183	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: Salimander Home set up

Michelle-post a picture of your Salamander if you don't know the species. John*<o)))<* On 25 July 2013 15:17, amphibian_ca <bhosking@...> wrote: > ** > > > We will need to know the species of "salamander." Many are terrestrial, > some are aquatic, some like newts are both. > > Byron. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > > > Okay my salamander has finally lost its little tree like whiskers and > has gained a sripe and i wish to make my old fish tank into a home for it. > I live in Seattle and I want some advice on setting up a home that is > suitable for my baby. I have gravel and water that can be used. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55184	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: In need of some...feet...to stand on.

I agree, it's a lovely piece & standing it on your bilingually signed washing machine gives it scale! My Goldfish have a similar sized piece of bogwood in their tank, it has a small open arch at the bottom that they seem to like because they turn sideways & slide through. John*<o)))<* On 25 July 2013 15:34, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > The driftwood (Mopani) pics came through just fine. Real interesting > looking piece. Adds to the natural look of the tank. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > I tried the pics again hopefully I got it right this time. :-)>>> > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > I've heard nothing but good things about Zoo Med. African Mopani > driftwood is quality stuff for the aquarium; best of luck with it. I guess > I'm looking the wrong place to find your driftwooed pics. Your last entries > in your photo album were on November 8, 2012, and I don't see it under > files. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Ray. Thanks for the info. > > > > no it doesn't float, this kind sinks like a rock. > > > > both those things should work... I was also thinking maybe those > plastic things they use to spread body filler on, and the weight of the > substrate would give some more stability. I'd just have to find the right > type of plastic... I've read that it has a # 1-7 on a plastic item, and > that 1-4 is aqua safe.. I will check to see if I can get one of your two > ideas around here. > > > > nylon screws... never heard of such a thing... good call. > > > > It's in the tank making tea water now... I change it every 12 > hours.. the woman in the store said her experience was about a week till > being tannin free enough. > > > > it comes from a place called zoo med... looks like they are into > reptiles big, by their site... and fish a bit. > > > > > > > > I threw a few pics of it up in my folder. > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Al, > > > > > > > > > > As you may have seen, a lot of driftwood is mounted on pieces of > 1/4" -- 3/8" slate. That's easily drilled and countersunk to accept screws. > Stainless steel screws could be used, but most of the better hardware > stores carry nylon screws -- which isn't going to scratch glass or acrylic. > You'd need to also drill the driftwood. If you don't like slate, you could > go to a plastics outlet and buy 1/4" thick lucite, although this wouldn't > weigh the driftwood down like slate would, if it has a tendancy to float. > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > I picked up a fantastic piece of Mopani wood yesterday, for my > little planted tank that is in it's planning stages. It was expensive, but > I really like it. It's kind of an X shape, and while I think it would > probably stand up ok when buried a bit, I would like to put a couple of > feet on it; for my own piece of mind. I'll need a couple of waterproof > screws and... any ideas for something flat to screw to the bottom on each > side? Maybe something soft enough that the screw would countersink into it, > so as not to sit on the glass; I can always borrow or buy a bit if need be > though. > > > > > > Anyone done anything like this before? > > > > > > Thanks all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55185	From: Michelle	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

He was in a 10 but I moved him to the main 50 gal --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@... wrote: > > Hi Michelle, > > Could you please clarify this? While I understand from your latest > message, that you have a 50 gallon tank, in your second message (#55168 -- July > 23. 2013 @ 8:14 PM EDT), you wrote: "The water was bad so I moved him. . . " > So, buy this, I'm just assuming that Whiskers is no longer in your 50 > gallon tank -- unless your hospital tank is 50 gallons (?). What size tank > did you move Whiskers to? Did you move him to a 50 gallon tank? If so, > don't you have a smaller, hospital tank, in which to treat individual fish? > > Normally, a full treatment consists of three doses -- sometimes > administered on three successive days and at other times every other day. To > determine the frequency (and number) of the doses, you'd need to refer to the > directions on the medication's label. One tablet treats 10 gallons. Eight > tablets will treat 80 gallons of water. If you're using a 50 gallon tank as a > hospital tank, and you have no other option with this tank other than to > keep it filled with 50 gallons of water, then your first dosage would be 5 > tablets. You would need to buy one more box of this medication which, along > with the three remaining tablets from the first box, would be enough for > up to two more doses of 5 tablets per dose (with one tablet left over), but > again you'll need to check the directions for the number of doses. > > Usually a hospital tank is no larger than 10 gallons, and quite often just > 5 gallons or even 2 1/2 gallons. A 5 gallon tank would be large enough to > medicate one "average" size fish in. Your Synodontis catfish would do > better in a 10 gallon hospital tank. With a tank this size, it's extremely > easy to administer medications, and many medication doses (capsule or > tablet) are manufactured to treat just 10 gallons. With a 50 gallon hospital > tank, unless you have a filter on it which would cease working if the water > level fell, many hobbyists drop the water level to a depth of only 20 gallons > (or even 10 gallons) to facilitate medicating with less (but adequate) > medication. BTW, if your using a filter in your hospital tank, remove any > carbon you may have in it. Otherwise, this carbon will remove the medication. > > Ray > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2013 12:09:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kittycathobbes@... writes: > > > > > my tank is 50 gal. how many boxes of that (Jungle Labs Fungus Clear) > treatment do I need? It says it has 8 tabs for 80 gal but is that for one day or > the whole treatment? > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste > it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a > different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by > the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to > the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and > indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline > and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's > illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the > right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) > here? > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what > are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the > same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water > parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would > be at risk. > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the > plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot > that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that > I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed > (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches > (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, > unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in > all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs > attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be > a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by > the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a > secondary infection. > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications > containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of > choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients > address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria > which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any > medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially > those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital > tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, > feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a > 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often > recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this > medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > , harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/ > topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a > treatment > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other > stuff > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because > a) I > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so > your > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone > on your > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the > water in > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial > water > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will > weaken > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us > what the > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a > catfish > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help > me! I love > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55186	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Michelle, I just now approved your latest message of late this past evening, for posting, but before I address it I want to comment here on your reply to Dawn. I'm positive that Dawn did not suggest for you to remove Whiskers from his tank completely for you to photograph him. To the contrary; while the plastic bag is obscuring our view, it would be best to remove him from the bag (by just allowing him to swim freely out of it) into his aquarium -- in water -- free of the bag -- to get a better view of him for the camera. I'm sure you've done this already, as I know you're not keeping him in this bag all this time. I do realize your purpose in confining him in a bag for easier photograhic purposes, but it's not very easy to see all the details we may need to see -- unless his main issue is what appears to possibly be the whitish blotches on his body, which you haven't yet explained after our questioning this. If you can get a few more pics of him in the 50 gallon tank you put him in, all the better, but if it's the suspected white areas in your photos that are of concern, just let us know that rather than have us guess if that's just the plastic bag's reflection or not. At this point, I'm assuming that's his issue though, and I'll proceed from there unless you can advise otherwise. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55187	From: Ray	Date: 7/25/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Hi Michelle, Alright, now back to the gist of the matter. So -- you moved Whiskers from the 10 gallon which you were maintaining him in, to this "main" 50 gallon tank. Okay, we got that much established. Now, while we fully intend to help you (and Whiskers) as much as we can, we need your cooperation. So far, despite our requests for very important information from you -- such as you supplying us with the test results of the water both in the 10 gallon tank and in the 50 gallon tank, you have not complied. Such information is crucial to our recommendations in proceeding here. You also have not given us any info on what, if any, other fish you have or had in with Whiskers. We can only help you as much as you help us. For starters, as best I can see him in his plastic bag, I would tentatively identify him as Synodontis decorus or a very closely related species. The pattern of his spotting is indicative of a pattern that S. decorus gets at a certain age/size though, so at least for now this is what I'm going with. This is not this species' fully adult pattern though, albeit the species is somewhat variable. Young juveniles of S. decorum are often imported in small quantities from time to time, and without the hobbyist researching the fish further, its attractiveness often leads to its quick sales to unsuspecting fish keepers. A point here is that Synodontis decorus reaches about 12" to 13" when fully mature; he appears to be at least 6" or possibly 7" long at this stage. Difficult to discern when there's nothing else to compare him to in size, but even if he were 5", this fish does not belong in a 10 gallon tank as it's too small for him and with that, water quality issues can quickly pop up. You still haven't said if there were any other fish in this same 10 gallon tank with him, and I hope not as that would be crowding things even more, but even if he were just by himself, I'm sure you can see that a fish of this eventual size does not belong in this small of a tank as it will too soon cause issues that are unforeseen if you're not monitoring the water by frequent testing -- or doing enough maintenance of weekly partial water changes, etc. That said, the 50 gallon tank would be better for him to be maintained in permanently, but right now we need to get him on the mend. First of all, let us know what, if any, other fish you have in this same 50 gallon tank. Ideally (preferably), there should be no other fish in the same tank as one being used as a hospital tank to medicate a sick fish, as healthy fish need not be subjected to the medications needed to treat a sick fish. Now, while you can treat Whiskers in this 50 gallon tank -- provided there are no other fish in this tank with him -- it's going to be a lot more expensive to do so because of this much greater quantity of water, which I explained in a previous message. My recommendation is for you to drain and clean the 10 gallon tank and refill it only with water from the 50 gallon tank, provided that water is fairly clean (free of contaminants) -- but you'll have to give us the test results of this water, for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You can supply the test results for the pH too, but as Whiskers is already acclimated to it, it's a moot point unless it's adverse to his well being. Now provided this 50 gallon tank's water is suitable, fill the 10 gallon tank with it and transfer Whiskers back to it. Medicate him there with the Fungus Clear (by Jungle Labs) product I recommended, ASAP, and he should clear up shortly. These issues are usually not to be addressed at leisure as it's imperative that fish get treated promptly with the right medication in as short of time as possible, to ensure a good recovery, so further delay is not an option. After he's fully recovered, put him back into the 50 gallon tank for permanent maintenance and continue with a regular maintenance regimen. Let us know if you have any other questions, and keep us advised of his progress. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > He was in a 10 but I moved him to the main 50 gal > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, sevenspringss1@ wrote: > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > Could you please clarify this? While I understand from your latest > > message, that you have a 50 gallon tank, in your second message (#55168 -- July > > 23. 2013 @ 8:14 PM EDT), you wrote: "The water was bad so I moved him. . . " > > So, buy this, I'm just assuming that Whiskers is no longer in your 50 > > gallon tank -- unless your hospital tank is 50 gallons (?). What size tank > > did you move Whiskers to? Did you move him to a 50 gallon tank? If so, > > don't you have a smaller, hospital tank, in which to treat individual fish? > > > > Normally, a full treatment consists of three doses -- sometimes > > administered on three successive days and at other times every other day. To > > determine the frequency (and number) of the doses, you'd need to refer to the > > directions on the medication's label. One tablet treats 10 gallons. Eight > > tablets will treat 80 gallons of water. If you're using a 50 gallon tank as a > > hospital tank, and you have no other option with this tank other than to > > keep it filled with 50 gallons of water, then your first dosage would be 5 > > tablets. You would need to buy one more box of this medication which, along > > with the three remaining tablets from the first box, would be enough for > > up to two more doses of 5 tablets per dose (with one tablet left over), but > > again you'll need to check the directions for the number of doses. > > > > Usually a hospital tank is no larger than 10 gallons, and quite often just > > 5 gallons or even 2 1/2 gallons. A 5 gallon tank would be large enough to > > medicate one "average" size fish in. Your Synodontis catfish would do > > better in a 10 gallon hospital tank. With a tank this size, it's extremely > > easy to administer medications, and many medication doses (capsule or > > tablet) are manufactured to treat just 10 gallons. With a 50 gallon hospital > > tank, unless you have a filter on it which would cease working if the water > > level fell, many hobbyists drop the water level to a depth of only 20 gallons > > (or even 10 gallons) to facilitate medicating with less (but adequate) > > medication. BTW, if your using a filter in your hospital tank, remove any > > carbon you may have in it. Otherwise, this carbon will remove the medication. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/25/2013 12:09:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > kittycathobbes@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > my tank is 50 gal. how many boxes of that (Jungle Labs Fungus Clear) > > treatment do I need? It says it has 8 tabs for 80 gal but is that for one day or > > the whole treatment? > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , > > "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste > > it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a > > different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by > > the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to > > the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and > > indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline > > and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's > > illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the > > right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) > > here? > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what > > are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the > > same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water > > parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would > > be at risk. > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the > > plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot > > that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that > > I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed > > (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches > > (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, > > unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in > > all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs > > attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be > > a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by > > the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a > > secondary infection. > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications > > containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of > > choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients > > address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria > > which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any > > medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially > > those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital > > tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, > > feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a > > 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often > > recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this > > medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > , harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/ > > topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a > > treatment > > > > > > > > --- In _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ > > (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) , SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other > > stuff > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because > > a) I > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so > > your > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone > > on your > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the > > water in > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial > > water > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will > > weaken > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us > > what the > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a > > catfish > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help > > me! I love > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55188	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

As Ray pointed out, my suggestion of photographing the catfish out of the bag meant to photograph him while he is in the tank, not to "carry him outside of the water". That thought had never crossed my mind. Once again I have to agree with everything Ray has covered in his last posts in this thread. We are here to help but we need information to be able to help you (or anyone who needs it). Taking care of fish, especially in regards to medical issues, requires a bit of protocol in regards to safety. Many medications (or specifically, the ingredients within the medications) can turn toxic if water quality is not first checked and deemed within safe ranges. Some ingredients react strongly to ammonia, some to nitrite, and some to both. To offer a safe suggestion of treatment we first need to know where the water quality is at so we can suggest something that will not react negatively with points within the water chemistry. Not knowing or taking these precautionary steps could mean the difference between a recovering fish or a dead one. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55189	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Looking for a new fish

I am looking for the following fish to add to my collection: Thalassophryne amazonica aka the prehistoric monster fish Does anyone out there know a distributor? Aquabid has none. I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area and have already contacted some of the LFSs. Perhaps someone has this fish and is looking to rehome it? Look forward to hearing from the group! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55190	From: deenerzz	Date: 7/26/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish

Try Oliver Lucanus at Below Water http://www.belowwater.com/ Thalassophryne amazonica -----Original Message----- From: cobra427lady <clare@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:54 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Looking for a new fish I am looking for the following fish to add to my collection: Thalassophryne amazonica aka the prehistoric monster fish Does anyone out there know a distributor? Aquabid has none. I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area and have already contacted some of the LFSs. Perhaps someone has this fish and is looking to rehome it? Look forward to hearing from the group! Cheers, Clare [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55191	From: cobra427lady	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish

Thanks for the lead, Deenerz....anyone else, please feel free to provide information too :-) I am very interesting in acquiring one....saw it at a LFS about a year or so ago but that store has since closed. Thanks for any and all help! Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > > Try Oliver Lucanus at Below Water http://www.belowwater.com/ > > > > Thalassophryne amazonica > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cobra427lady <clare@...> > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:54 pm > Subject: [AquaticLife] Looking for a new fish > > > > > > > I am looking for the following fish to add to my collection: > Thalassophryne amazonica aka the prehistoric monster fish > > Does anyone out there know a distributor? Aquabid has none. > I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area and have already contacted some of the LFSs. Perhaps someone has this fish and is looking to rehome it? > > Look forward to hearing from the group! > > Cheers, > Clare > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55192	From: Parham	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: Looking for a new fish

On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:55 AM, "cobra427lady" <clare@...> wrote: > > Thanks for the lead, Deenerz....anyone else, please feel free to provide information too :-) > > I am very interesting in acquiring one....saw it at a LFS about a year or so ago but that store has since closed. > > Thanks for any and all help! > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Deenerz@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Try Oliver Lucanus at Below Water http://www.belowwater.com/ > > > > > > > > Thalassophryne amazonica > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cobra427lady <clare@...> > > To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Fri, Jul 26, 2013 8:54 pm > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Looking for a new fish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking for the following fish to add to my collection: > > Thalassophryne amazonica aka the prehistoric monster fish > > > > Does anyone out there know a distributor? Aquabid has none. > > I am located in the San Francisco Bay Area and have already contacted some of the LFSs. Perhaps someone has this fish and is looking to rehome it? > > > > Look forward to hearing from the group! > > > > Cheers, > > Clare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55193	From: Michelle	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

isn't possible. he hides the moment he touches the water. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > As Ray pointed out, my suggestion of photographing the catfish out of the bag meant to photograph him while he is in the tank, not to "carry him outside of the water". That thought had never crossed my mind. > > Once again I have to agree with everything Ray has covered in his last posts in this thread. We are here to help but we need information to be able to help you (or anyone who needs it). Taking care of fish, especially in regards to medical issues, requires a bit of protocol in regards to safety. Many medications (or specifically, the ingredients within the medications) can turn toxic if water quality is not first checked and deemed within safe ranges. Some ingredients react strongly to ammonia, some to nitrite, and some to both. To offer a safe suggestion of treatment we first need to know where the water quality is at so we can suggest something that will not react negatively with points within the water chemistry. Not knowing or taking these precautionary steps could mean the difference between a recovering fish or a dead one. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55194	From: Ray	Date: 7/27/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Okay then, we see it's impossible to get a pic of Whiskers in the aquarium if not confined. So if you could just confirm that the issue concerning Whiskers is that he has what appears to be open sores on his body -- as suspected from as much as can be seen by the photos -- then we'll know that's what we're dealing with. As it's taken you some time to get back to us on this, I'm assuming you're not available during the day, but his treatment should be started without further delay. I haven't seen any test results from you, as asked for. Do you have testing equipment for the parameters I asked for? If not, I'd advise you get a master test kit (containing tests for at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH), as you'll always have a use for it in addition to actually having a specific need for it when health issues come up in your fish. But, if you can't get this test kit in short time, you'll need to attend to Whiskers now. If you have a test kit, let us know the tests results. Clean the 10 gallon tank out and refill it with (only) water from the 50 gallon tank, but fill in only with about 7 gallons of water (it doesn't have to be precise). Then, fill it up the rest of the way with tap water of the same temperature (as near as you can approximate it) and add only enough water conditioner for 3 gallons -- of the tap water -- to remove the chloramine. Then place Whiskers in this tank and add the medication (Fungus Clear) you said you got; one tablet to this 10 gallon tank. Continue treating as per the directions on the label. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > isn't possible. he hides the moment he touches the water. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > As Ray pointed out, my suggestion of photographing the catfish out of the bag meant to photograph him while he is in the tank, not to "carry him outside of the water". That thought had never crossed my mind. > > > > Once again I have to agree with everything Ray has covered in his last posts in this thread. We are here to help but we need information to be able to help you (or anyone who needs it). Taking care of fish, especially in regards to medical issues, requires a bit of protocol in regards to safety. Many medications (or specifically, the ingredients within the medications) can turn toxic if water quality is not first checked and deemed within safe ranges. Some ingredients react strongly to ammonia, some to nitrite, and some to both. To offer a safe suggestion of treatment we first need to know where the water quality is at so we can suggest something that will not react negatively with points within the water chemistry. Not knowing or taking these precautionary steps could mean the difference between a recovering fish or a dead one. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55195	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

A suggestion for you to get a better photo of him... after the medication treatment is complete in the 10 gallon tank, water changes are done to remove the medication and you are preparing to once again put him back into the 50 gallon tank, remove all of the decor from the 10 gallon, slowly lower the water level to 1/2, then take the photos of him while he is still in the 10 gallon with 1/2 the water, just before you go to catch him to remove him. This will give us a chance to properly ID him for you so you know what you'll be dealing with moving forward in regards to size and safe tank mates. If during treatment he appears to take a turn for the worse, which may require more photos for us to provide proper help, again, removing the decor from the 10 gallon to take the photos should do the trick. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@...> wrote: > > isn't possible. he hides the moment he touches the water. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > As Ray pointed out, my suggestion of photographing the catfish out of the bag meant to photograph him while he is in the tank, not to "carry him outside of the water". That thought had never crossed my mind. > > > > Once again I have to agree with everything Ray has covered in his last posts in this thread. We are here to help but we need information to be able to help you (or anyone who needs it). Taking care of fish, especially in regards to medical issues, requires a bit of protocol in regards to safety. Many medications (or specifically, the ingredients within the medications) can turn toxic if water quality is not first checked and deemed within safe ranges. Some ingredients react strongly to ammonia, some to nitrite, and some to both. To offer a safe suggestion of treatment we first need to know where the water quality is at so we can suggest something that will not react negatively with points within the water chemistry. Not knowing or taking these precautionary steps could mean the difference between a recovering fish or a dead one. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55196	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY

Just a quick note about the 10 gallon hospital tank... there should be no substrate in this tank and no live plants. Pieces of pvc pipe make wonderful hiding places in a hospital tank, are easy to clean afterwards, and provide plenty of shelter for the fish. Just make sure pvc is plenty wide enough that the fish can't get stuck and avoid elbow pieces. Plastic and silk plants can also be used safely in a hospital tank. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Okay then, we see it's impossible to get a pic of Whiskers in the aquarium if not confined. So if you could just confirm that the issue concerning Whiskers is that he has what appears to be open sores on his body -- as suspected from as much as can be seen by the photos -- then we'll know that's what we're dealing with. > > As it's taken you some time to get back to us on this, I'm assuming you're not available during the day, but his treatment should be started without further delay. I haven't seen any test results from you, as asked for. Do you have testing equipment for the parameters I asked for? If not, I'd advise you get a master test kit (containing tests for at least ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH), as you'll always have a use for it in addition to actually having a specific need for it when health issues come up in your fish. But, if you can't get this test kit in short time, you'll need to attend to Whiskers now. If you have a test kit, let us know the tests results. > > Clean the 10 gallon tank out and refill it with (only) water from the 50 gallon tank, but fill in only with about 7 gallons of water (it doesn't have to be precise). Then, fill it up the rest of the way with tap water of the same temperature (as near as you can approximate it) and add only enough water conditioner for 3 gallons -- of the tap water -- to remove the chloramine. Then place Whiskers in this tank and add the medication (Fungus Clear) you said you got; one tablet to this 10 gallon tank. Continue treating as per the directions on the label. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > isn't possible. he hides the moment he touches the water. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > As Ray pointed out, my suggestion of photographing the catfish out of the bag meant to photograph him while he is in the tank, not to "carry him outside of the water". That thought had never crossed my mind. > > > > > > Once again I have to agree with everything Ray has covered in his last posts in this thread. We are here to help but we need information to be able to help you (or anyone who needs it). Taking care of fish, especially in regards to medical issues, requires a bit of protocol in regards to safety. Many medications (or specifically, the ingredients within the medications) can turn toxic if water quality is not first checked and deemed within safe ranges. Some ingredients react strongly to ammonia, some to nitrite, and some to both. To offer a safe suggestion of treatment we first need to know where the water quality is at so we can suggest something that will not react negatively with points within the water chemistry. Not knowing or taking these precautionary steps could mean the difference between a recovering fish or a dead one. > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Michelle" <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My catfish has spikes. I dont think I could carry him outside of water even if I wanted to. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I came to the same conclusion about that link as Ray did... not to mention that most of the medications listed there would be far too harsh to treat Michelle's fish. > > > > > > > > > > Michelle, your fish appears to be a species of synodontis catfish though as Ray has already mentioned, the photos of it in the bag make it impossible to offer you more info and make it impossible to identify anything such as fin rot. > > > > > > > > > > I agree with the advice Ray offered in terms of hospital tank, water quality, and medication choice. Be careful not to get carried away with medications. Synodontis catfish are scaleless fish and very sensitive to medications. Using the wrong med could easily kill your fish. > > > > > > > > > > In regards to your mention of your catfish eating your other fish, can you please tell us what other fish he has been sharing a tank with? Synodontis will tend to eat smaller fish that easily fit into their mouths, as will many other catfish species. That is their nature. If you send us a better photo of your catfish (out of the bag) we should be able to help you determine a more exact ID so you know how big this fish will grow to be, and thus that should help determine what other fish are safe as tank mates long term. > > > > > > > > > > Good luck with your fish. > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > As my IE browser would not open the link provided, I had to cut & paste it to my Mozilla FGirefox browser to open it. Unless I was redirected to a different page than what was intended, I read a series of posts -- both by the owner of a Cory Catfish named "Feldman," and by a couple of advisors to the owner. Unfortunated, because of an undeterminable diagnoses and indeterminate recommendations of medications (Maroxy, Erythromycin, Tetracycline and Kanamycin) for treatments not necessarily connected to Feldman's illness (never concluded), this fish died. So, I have a feeling I was not on the right page. Could the contents of this link's page be explained (in short) here? > > > > > > > > > > > > For Michelle, What size hospital tank did you put Whiskers in, and what are its water parameters (in numbers)? Do you have any other fish in the same tank that you just took him out of? If so, what are those water parameters? Please follow up on this part as any other fish in this main tank would be at risk. > > > > > > > > > > > > In looking over your photos, it's hard to see much detail when the plastic bag this fish is in obscures a good view. I don't really see the Fin Rot that John happens to see, but that's not to say it's not there. Just that I'm not picking up on that detail with the fish's fins being largely closed (and the plastic obscuring my view). I do see a couple of white blotches (one larger than the other) on the fish's side, beneath the dorsal fin, unless they're reflections from the plastic bag. As I'm seeing these blotches in all three pics though, I'm starting to assume this is an issue that needs attending to. If what I'm seeing is actually on the fish, it appears to be a bacterial infection, but if there's any dead or dying tissue caused by the bacteria, fungus could soon set it if it hasn't already as it's often a secondary infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > As we need to stay away from any dye medications, or any medications containing a dye in addition to its main ingredient(s), the medication of choice here would be Jungle Lab's (trademark) Fungus Clear; it's ingedients address both fungal and bacterial issues -- especially gram-negative bacteria which would be the cause for this issue. Before admninistering any medications though, the water must be relatively free of contaminants, especially those contaminants caused by organic wastes. If in doubt about the hospital tank's water being suitable to use for treatment (medication) purposes, feel free to give us those water parameters. You may need to make at least a 1/3 partial water change to this tank before medicating, as is often recommended on most med's labels, but this remains to be seen. BTW, this medication will also address Fin Rot if it's present. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/132050-help-help-cotton-like-fungus-on-cory-catfish-pictures/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > From: Michelle <kittycathobbes@> > > > > > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:54 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: EMERGENCY > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > The water was bad so I moved him but now I really need to find a treatment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michelle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your Catfish looks to have some serious fin rot & probably other stuff > > > > > > > > going on as well. I don't want to advise about medications because a) I > > > > > > > > don't know anything about Catfish treatment & b) I'm in the UK so your > > > > > > > > medications in the States are different to ours. Hopefully someone on your > > > > > > > > side of the pond can help you out there real soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do notice that the water in the bag is rather cloudy so if the water in > > > > > > > > your tank is like that too then you need to do some serious partial water > > > > > > > > changes because the toxins could be well off the scale & that will weaken > > > > > > > > your fish further. Do you have a test kit & if so can you tell us what the > > > > > > > > readings are for your tank? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 July 2013 09:52, Michelle <kittycathobbes@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what this is but it is harming my fish!!!!! It is a catfish > > > > > > > > > (look at the picture I post of my catfish!!) someone please help me! I love > > > > > > > > > whiskers with all my heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55197	From: rachell7	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: ich?

I have a question re: ich, those dreaded white spots. I got 3 tetras recently (2 weeks ago) I don't have a quarantine tank (bad I know, I've read your posts re: them enough over the years I've been on this group I should know better!) but now I'm seeing those dreaded white spots and from past experience I know it's ich. I have a bristlenose peco and 2 neons, I have live plants and would appreciate advice. I'm ready to get rid of the tetras, but I know the rest of my tank may already be infected. The fish I worry most about is my peco. I recently bought some marine salt is it OK to use with the peco? I have a heater, should I raise the temp, it's at 80 F now. I'm not sure about medication to use esp. with the peco, so advice there please! Rachell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55198	From: Ray	Date: 7/28/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Hi Rachell, Yes, marine salt is fine to use with your pleco, but no species of catfish likes much salt anyway. With Ich, you don't need that much salt though, just 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, which shouldn't bother him (her?). This is in combination with the heat treatment. You don't need to use a medication for treating Ich, which is especially good as many Ich medications are detrimental to catfish as many use the dye medication, Malachite Green. It can be used at half-strength for catfish, but then, it's of course not as effective. You can use an Ich medication that's without a dye in its ingredients, but you don't need to use any medication if you raise the temperature to at least 86 o. It needs to be kept there for at least two days after seeing no further signs of Ich on the fish, which can take up to about 10 days in all. Additional aeration is always recommended, if possible, to help ensure as much oxygen is being absorbed into the water at all times during the treatment. Likewise, the CO2 will disipate more freely. One caveat with having live plants in the tank though -- not all plants take that much heat for an extended time easily, while some will tolerate it with ease. It's generally the tenderer plants that don't like the heat. As you can't give away or return fish that have Ich, unless it's seen on the fish already when you first bring them home, you might as well figure on treating them in the tank at this same time. I guess I don't need to tell you, to consider getting a quarantine tank for the future. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > I have a question re: ich, those dreaded white spots. I got 3 tetras recently (2 weeks ago) I don't have a quarantine tank (bad I know, I've read your posts re: them enough over the years I've been on this group I should know better!) but now I'm seeing those dreaded white spots and from past experience I know it's ich. I have a bristlenose peco and 2 neons, I have live plants and would appreciate advice. I'm ready to get rid of the tetras, but I know the rest of my tank may already be infected. The fish I worry most about is my peco. > > I recently bought some marine salt is it OK to use with the peco? I have a heater, should I raise the temp, it's at 80 F now. I'm not sure about medication to use esp. with the peco, so advice there please! > Rachell >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55199	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Thank you Ray, Thank You so much! I did remove the infected tetras and they are in a bucket for now since I really don't have another tank to put them in. My peco and the two neons so far haven't shown any sign of ich but I am wondering if I should go ahead and do the salt treatment and raise the temp as you suggest for the next few days. You are right, I really do need to get quarantine tank set up for any future new comers. I'm really upset with myself right now for bringing them home in the first place, every time I have gotten fish from this particular Petsmart I seem to have problems. Thanks again! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Hi Rachell, > > Yes, marine salt is fine to use with your pleco, but no species of catfish likes much salt anyway. With Ich, you don't need that much salt though, just 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, which shouldn't bother him (her?). This is in combination with the heat treatment. > > You don't need to use a medication for treating Ich, which is especially good as many Ich medications are detrimental to catfish as many use the dye medication, Malachite Green. It can be used at half-strength for catfish, but then, it's of course not as effective. You can use an Ich medication that's without a dye in its ingredients, but you don't need to use any medication if you raise the temperature to at least 86 o. It needs to be kept there for at least two days after seeing no further signs of Ich on the fish, which can take up to about 10 days in all. Additional aeration is always recommended, if possible, to help ensure as much oxygen is being absorbed into the water at all times during the treatment. Likewise, the CO2 will disipate more freely. One caveat with having live plants in the tank though -- not all plants take that much heat for an extended time easily, while some will tolerate it with ease. It's generally the tenderer plants that don't like the heat. > > As you can't give away or return fish that have Ich, unless it's seen on the fish already when you first bring them home, you might as well figure on treating them in the tank at this same time. I guess I don't need to tell you, to consider getting a quarantine tank for the future. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@> wrote: > > > > I have a question re: ich, those dreaded white spots. I got 3 tetras recently (2 weeks ago) I don't have a quarantine tank (bad I know, I've read your posts re: them enough over the years I've been on this group I should know better!) but now I'm seeing those dreaded white spots and from past experience I know it's ich. I have a bristlenose peco and 2 neons, I have live plants and would appreciate advice. I'm ready to get rid of the tetras, but I know the rest of my tank may already be infected. The fish I worry most about is my peco. > > > > I recently bought some marine salt is it OK to use with the peco? I have a heater, should I raise the temp, it's at 80 F now. I'm not sure about medication to use esp. with the peco, so advice there please! > > Rachell > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55200	From: Ray	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Rachell, Why would you remove the infected fish to a bucket? Aren't you planning to treat them too, or are you just going to let them die -- which they eventually will when their illness gets worse? Or are you going to treat them in the bucket? The problem with treating them in the bucket is that you can't very well see when the Ich is gone, and may put them back in the tank too soon. Looks like you're planning to hold off on treating the main tank until you see signs of Ich. I don't know what temperature you're keeping them (Pleco and Neons) at now, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least raise the temp to 80 o, and add the salt. The 80 o temp will boost the fishes' immune systems and the salt will promote an increased slime coat to make it more difficult for Ich to attach themselves. That small, token amount of salt won't bother anything, not even the plants. If you're going to use a medication for the Tetras in the bucket, you should know that they too are not very tolerant of Malachite Green; it may have been best to treat all the fish, in the tank, at once. You can be sure that there's Ich in your tank if these Tetras had two weeks there to develop it, but time will tell if the others contract it. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@...> wrote: > > Thank you Ray, Thank You so much! I did remove the infected tetras and they are in a bucket for now since I really don't have another tank to put them in. My peco and the two neons so far haven't shown any sign of ich but I am wondering if I should go ahead and do the salt treatment and raise the temp as you suggest for the next few days. > > You are right, I really do need to get quarantine tank set up for any future new comers. I'm really upset with myself right now for bringing them home in the first place, every time I have gotten fish from this particular Petsmart I seem to have problems. > Thanks again! Rachell > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > Hi Rachell, > > > > Yes, marine salt is fine to use with your pleco, but no species of catfish likes much salt anyway. With Ich, you don't need that much salt though, just 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons, which shouldn't bother him (her?). This is in combination with the heat treatment. > > > > You don't need to use a medication for treating Ich, which is especially good as many Ich medications are detrimental to catfish as many use the dye medication, Malachite Green. It can be used at half-strength for catfish, but then, it's of course not as effective. You can use an Ich medication that's without a dye in its ingredients, but you don't need to use any medication if you raise the temperature to at least 86 o. It needs to be kept there for at least two days after seeing no further signs of Ich on the fish, which can take up to about 10 days in all. Additional aeration is always recommended, if possible, to help ensure as much oxygen is being absorbed into the water at all times during the treatment. Likewise, the CO2 will disipate more freely. One caveat with having live plants in the tank though -- not all plants take that much heat for an extended time easily, while some will tolerate it with ease. It's generally the tenderer plants that don't like the heat. > > > > As you can't give away or return fish that have Ich, unless it's seen on the fish already when you first bring them home, you might as well figure on treating them in the tank at this same time. I guess I don't need to tell you, to consider getting a quarantine tank for the future. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rachell7" <rachell7@> wrote: > > > > > > I have a question re: ich, those dreaded white spots. I got 3 tetras recently (2 weeks ago) I don't have a quarantine tank (bad I know, I've read your posts re: them enough over the years I've been on this group I should know better!) but now I'm seeing those dreaded white spots and from past experience I know it's ich. I have a bristlenose peco and 2 neons, I have live plants and would appreciate advice. I'm ready to get rid of the tetras, but I know the rest of my tank may already be infected. The fish I worry most about is my peco. > > > > > > I recently bought some marine salt is it OK to use with the peco? I have a heater, should I raise the temp, it's at 80 F now. I'm not sure about medication to use esp. with the peco, so advice there please! > > > Rachell > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55201	From: Amber	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Make sure to not add the salt all at once, do it gradually. The same for raising the temps, if you raise them up any higher don't do it all at once, raise it gradually over a few days. Also mix the salt into the water until it dissolves, don't pour it directly into the tank (fish will eat the granules and can burn their gills by doing so). Amber On 7/29/2013 3:19 AM, Ray wrote: > > Rachell, > > Why would you remove the infected fish to a bucket? Aren't you > planning to treat them too, or are you just going to let them die -- > which they eventually will when their illness gets worse? Or are you > going to treat them in the bucket? The problem with treating them in > the bucket is that you can't very well see when the Ich is gone, and > may put them back in the tank too soon. Looks like you're planning to > hold off on treating the main tank until you see signs of Ich. I don't > know what temperature you're keeping them (Pleco and Neons) at now, > but it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least raise the temp to 80 o, and > add the salt. > > The 80 o temp will boost the fishes' immune systems and the salt will > promote an increased slime coat to make it more difficult for Ich to > attach themselves. That small, token amount of salt won't bother > anything, not even the plants. If you're going to use a medication for > the Tetras in the bucket, you should know that they too are not very > tolerant of Malachite Green; it may have been best to treat all the > fish, in the tank, at once. You can be sure that there's Ich in your > tank if these Tetras had two weeks there to develop it, but time will > tell if the others contract it. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55202	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

> I did remove the infected tetras and they are in > a bucket for now since I really don't have another > tank to put them in. My peco and the two neons so > far haven't shown any sign of ich but I am wondering > if I should go ahead and do the salt treatment and > raise the temp as you suggest for the next few days. If you added them to the tank two weeks ago, then yes, your tank will have ich and you need to follow through with the salt and heat treatment. And put the neons back in the tank. Removing them now is simply closing the barn door after the horse left. Might as well treat them with the rest of the fish and tank. Regards, Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55203	From: joe t	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Why remove the tetras now? They were already in your tank before you noticed the ich. When you did notice it.....which was a while later (next few hours? Next day?) the ich was already in the tank. I would just treat all of them. If not you have to do everything twice. More risk to the fish with no tank. If you have been following posts on this blog as long as you say, you should know by now that most of these places, like PetSmart, with really few exceptions, do not care for their fish properly. You should really scrutinize the fish for awhile in the store to be sure there aren't any problems. Like this ich. I am sure you would have seen it on the fish in the store. A good LFS (like the one I had) will hold the fish a day or so to be sure there are no apparent problems. Problems, like ich, we would label the tank "Not for Sale" until the ich was cleared. The big stores will not and do not do that. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55204	From: Ray	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Hi Joe, I agree with you completely on treating all the fish at once, in the same tank (as I've already posted), but there's something you missed (and it's not the part that most PetSmart stores don't take enough care to sell healthy fish). Rachell bought these Tetras (unknown by us what species) two weeks ago. They could have picked up the Ich from there or they could have been stress on the way home and caught it from latent Ich already in her tank. The bottom line is she should have had a quarantine tank, but in all probability the fish may well have looked clean at the store or I'm sure she would have noticed this sooner on these fish in her tank. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Why remove the tetras now? They were already in your tank before you noticed the ich. When you did notice it.....which was a while later (next few hours? Next day?) the ich was already in the tank. I would just treat all of them. If not you have to do everything twice. More risk to the fish with no tank. > > If you have been following posts on this blog as long as you say, you should know by now that most of these places, like PetSmart, with really few exceptions, do not care for their fish properly. You should really scrutinize the fish for awhile in the store to be sure there aren't any problems. Like this ich. I am sure you would have seen it on the fish in the store. > > A good LFS (like the one I had) will hold the fish a day or so to be sure there are no apparent problems. Problems, like ich, we would label the tank "Not for Sale" until the ich was cleared. The big stores will not and do not do that. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55205	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

I would recommend quarantining *any* new aquatic animals or plants even if they do come from a reputable dealer because sometimes an ailment or parasite can be carried by a host & not affect it but could decimate your established system. John*<o)))<* On 29 July 2013 17:17, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Joe, > > I agree with you completely on treating all the fish at once, in the same > tank (as I've already posted), but there's something you missed (and it's > not the part that most PetSmart stores don't take enough care to sell > healthy fish). Rachell bought these Tetras (unknown by us what species) two > weeks ago. They could have picked up the Ich from there or they could have > been stress on the way home and caught it from latent Ich already in her > tank. The bottom line is she should have had a quarantine tank, but in all > probability the fish may well have looked clean at the store or I'm sure > she would have noticed this sooner on these fish in her tank. > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > Why remove the tetras now? They were already in your tank before you > noticed the ich. When you did notice it.....which was a while later (next > few hours? Next day?) the ich was already in the tank. I would just treat > all of them. If not you have to do everything twice. More risk to the fish > with no tank. > > > > If you have been following posts on this blog as long as you say, you > should know by now that most of these places, like PetSmart, with really > few exceptions, do not care for their fish properly. You should really > scrutinize the fish for awhile in the store to be sure there aren't any > problems. Like this ich. I am sure you would have seen it on the fish in > the store. > > > > A good LFS (like the one I had) will hold the fish a day or so to be > sure there are no apparent problems. Problems, like ich, we would label the > tank "Not for Sale" until the ich was cleared. The big stores will not and > do not do that. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line. > > > > joe t > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55206	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Thanks Amber, yes the salt is hard to dissolve as I found out! And I did add it a little at a time. I have adjusted the temp slowly as well, I have increased it from 80 to 82 and will raise it another 2 degrees tomorrow. Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > Make sure to not add the salt all at once, do it gradually. The same for > raising the temps, if you raise them up any higher don't do it all at > once, raise it gradually over a few days. Also mix the salt into the > water until it dissolves, don't pour it directly into the tank (fish > will eat the granules and can burn their gills by doing so). > > Amber > > On 7/29/2013 3:19 AM, Ray wrote: > > > > Rachell, > > > > Why would you remove the infected fish to a bucket? Aren't you > > planning to treat them too, or are you just going to let them die -- > > which they eventually will when their illness gets worse? Or are you > > going to treat them in the bucket? The problem with treating them in > > the bucket is that you can't very well see when the Ich is gone, and > > may put them back in the tank too soon. Looks like you're planning to > > hold off on treating the main tank until you see signs of Ich. I don't > > know what temperature you're keeping them (Pleco and Neons) at now, > > but it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least raise the temp to 80 o, and > > add the salt. > > > > The 80 o temp will boost the fishes' immune systems and the salt will > > promote an increased slime coat to make it more difficult for Ich to > > attach themselves. That small, token amount of salt won't bother > > anything, not even the plants. If you're going to use a medication for > > the Tetras in the bucket, you should know that they too are not very > > tolerant of Malachite Green; it may have been best to treat all the > > fish, in the tank, at once. You can be sure that there's Ich in your > > tank if these Tetras had two weeks there to develop it, but time will > > tell if the others contract it. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55207	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

The tetras are in a different tank Joe so I can see w/o the plants and other things that can obscure them. And in a area with better lighting. Yes I agree with you, the big box stores only care about the bottom line but I have been checking the tanks at this store for quite a while before I decided to purchase. I had no seen any problems. Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > Why remove the tetras now? They were already in your tank before you noticed the ich. When you did notice it.....which was a while later (next few hours? Next day?) the ich was already in the tank. I would just treat all of them. If not you have to do everything twice. More risk to the fish with no tank. > > If you have been following posts on this blog as long as you say, you should know by now that most of these places, like PetSmart, with really few exceptions, do not care for their fish properly. You should really scrutinize the fish for awhile in the store to be sure there aren't any problems. Like this ich. I am sure you would have seen it on the fish in the store. > > A good LFS (like the one I had) will hold the fish a day or so to be sure there are no apparent problems. Problems, like ich, we would label the tank "Not for Sale" until the ich was cleared. The big stores will not and do not do that. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line. > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55208	From: rachell7	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Yes John you are right! And as Ray and others have reminded me I really need to take that first important step next time! I think this has been a wake up call that taking short cuts do not work! Rachell --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > I would recommend quarantining *any* new aquatic animals or plants even if > they do come from a reputable dealer because sometimes an ailment or > parasite can be carried by a host & not affect it but could decimate your > established system. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 29 July 2013 17:17, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > I agree with you completely on treating all the fish at once, in the same > > tank (as I've already posted), but there's something you missed (and it's > > not the part that most PetSmart stores don't take enough care to sell > > healthy fish). Rachell bought these Tetras (unknown by us what species) two > > weeks ago. They could have picked up the Ich from there or they could have > > been stress on the way home and caught it from latent Ich already in her > > tank. The bottom line is she should have had a quarantine tank, but in all > > probability the fish may well have looked clean at the store or I'm sure > > she would have noticed this sooner on these fish in her tank. > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > > Why remove the tetras now? They were already in your tank before you > > noticed the ich. When you did notice it.....which was a while later (next > > few hours? Next day?) the ich was already in the tank. I would just treat > > all of them. If not you have to do everything twice. More risk to the fish > > with no tank. > > > > > > If you have been following posts on this blog as long as you say, you > > should know by now that most of these places, like PetSmart, with really > > few exceptions, do not care for their fish properly. You should really > > scrutinize the fish for awhile in the store to be sure there aren't any > > problems. Like this ich. I am sure you would have seen it on the fish in > > the store. > > > > > > A good LFS (like the one I had) will hold the fish a day or so to be > > sure there are no apparent problems. Problems, like ich, we would label the > > tank "Not for Sale" until the ich was cleared. The big stores will not and > > do not do that. The only thing that matters to them is the bottom line. > > > > > > joe t > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55209	From: harry perry	Date: 7/29/2013
Subject: Qyarantine tank.

Recent posts have brought home the importance of a quarantine tank. My question.....what, if any, medication is anyone adding to this tank?. There are general parasite meds. etc. available. Thanks Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55210	From: joe t	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Hi Ray, Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you and a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, cause it certainly happened before!! joet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55211	From: Laryl	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: new tank, best fish choice for hard water

I'm setting up a new 25gal tank, and have VERY hard water, very alkaline and high PH. What would the happiest fish be in this condition, besides dwarf cichlids and shell dwellers? Molly's, Rainbow? I'd like a little variety but since they need to school.. looks like I'll only be able to get 2 or 3 different ones at the most?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55212	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: Qyarantine tank.

Hi Harry, I would think a tonic level of salt would suffice because unless there are known, specific parasites or ailments present to dose fish with broad-spectrum medications could easily make matters worse, not better. John*<o)))<* On 30 July 2013 03:20, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Recent posts have brought home the importance of a quarantine tank. > > My question.....what, if any, medication is anyone adding to this tank?. > > There are general parasite meds. etc. available. > > Thanks > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55213	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Thinking about box stores in general, we have Pets At Home in the UK which sounds like the PetSmart chain in the US. What I would say in their defense is that their plants are really first class! I bought several bunches of top quality Anacharis almost 2 years ago & it's never stopped growing-don't think I'll ever need to buy any more. John*<o)))<* On 30 July 2013 12:42, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you and > a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned > checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, > cause it certainly happened before!! > > joet > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55214	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/30/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

I hope so John. I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run fish store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... but their fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they have many plant varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do well. They don't however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok with no co2.... if there is such a thing.... I've read varying opinions; so that will have to wait. I really like the little baby tears, but I've read they need co2, and I don't want to get into that, as it's just a little tank beside the bed. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Thinking about box stores in general, we have Pets At Home in the UK which > sounds like the PetSmart chain in the US. What I would say in their defense > is that their plants are really first class! I bought several bunches of > top quality Anacharis almost 2 years ago & it's never stopped growing-don't > think I'll ever need to buy any more. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 30 July 2013 12:42, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you and > > a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned > > checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, > > cause it certainly happened before!! > > > > joet > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55215	From: harry perry	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Live Plants......

Hi Al,      The biggest challenge with buying plants for any size tank is the lighting. The traditional hoods are usually about 1 to 1.5 watts per gallon. This requires low light plants. Usually pet stores don't differentiate. This is a list, probably not complete. You might want to print this out and take it with you. Your live plants will "melt" without the proper lighting. Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' Rotala Indica - Rotala indica Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' Downoi - Pogostemon helferi Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:29 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ich?   I hope so John. I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run fish store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... but their fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they have many plant varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do well. They don't however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok with no co2.... if there is such a thing.... I've read varying opinions; so that will have to wait. I really like the little baby tears, but I've read they need co2, and I don't want to get into that, as it's just a little tank beside the bed. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Thinking about box stores in general, we have Pets At Home in the UK which > sounds like the PetSmart chain in the US. What I would say in their defense > is that their plants are really first class! I bought several bunches of > top quality Anacharis almost 2 years ago & it's never stopped growing-don't > think I'll ever need to buy any more. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 30 July 2013 12:42, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you and > > a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned > > checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, > > cause it certainly happened before!! > > > > joet > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55216	From: joe t	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: Qyarantine tank.

Hi Harry and John: I would like to add here, the quarantine tank does not spell automatic medication. The whole purpose of the quarantine tank is to be sure the new fish are not having problems. The tank should be clean and void of any decorations to aid in seeing them and, of course, later netting them to their new home. I usually quarantine any new specimens for at least a week, sometimes two. If a problem occurs then I medicate only as necessary. Like for ich, as Ray has mentioned over and over, high temperature and some salt. Something else, use the medications as appropriate. If this is necessary their "hospital" stay will last as long as necessary until I am certain it is gone. joet

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55217	From: Al Keep	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: Live Plants......

Thanks Harry, that's a good list to have. I went to the store last week and wrote down what they had, so I could read up and see what I could use. I have 2 13w spiral daylight 6500k bulbs ready to go... I'm thinking that should be ok for a ten gallon that is only 12 inches deep. The plants I think would work from there would be.... corkscrew vallisneria for one back corner.. it will need haircuts... money wort. anubas or java fern to tie to the wood. 1-2 marimo moss balls to cut up and stick on the wood.... as they are supposed to be slow growing and won't take over the tank like java moss would. and a shortish foreground plant.... haven't come up with anything yet, I guess I can always see if I can order something, if I can come up with a suitable low tech plant for that real estate. I should probably pick up some fertilizer spikes while I'm at it, to start them off well with. The tank has been up and running for a couple of days, and has cleared up nicely. I may just start out with 2-3 plants first, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> On we go. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > >      The biggest challenge with buying plants for any size tank is the lighting. > > The traditional hoods are usually about 1 to 1.5 watts per gallon. > > This requires low light plants. Usually pet stores don't differentiate. > > This is a list, probably not complete. You might want to print this out and take it with you. Your live plants will "melt" without the proper lighting. > > Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus > Windelov Java Fern, Windelov Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' > Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf' > Java Moss - Vesicularia dubyana > Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma > *Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' > Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon' > Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia > Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green' > Rotala Indica - Rotala indica > Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum > Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum > Moneywort, Water Hyssop - Bocapa monnieri > Brazilian Pennywort, Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala > Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii > Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne Balansae > Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea > Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis > Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri v. barteri > Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble' > Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' > Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana' > Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia' > Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis > Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis > Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden' > Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf' > Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite' > Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' > Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red" > Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii > Pelia - Monosolenium tenerum > Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa > Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana > African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii > Hornwort - Ceratophyllum submersum > Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia > Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii > Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica' > Downoi - Pogostemon helferi > > > Harry > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 11:29 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: ich? > > > >   > I hope so John. > I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run fish store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... but their fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they have many plant varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do well. They don't however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok with no co2.... if there is such a thing.... I've read varying opinions; so that will have to wait. I really like the little baby tears, but I've read they need co2, and I don't want to get into that, as it's just a little tank beside the bed. > :-)>>> > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> wrote: > > > > Thinking about box stores in general, we have Pets At Home in the UK which > > sounds like the PetSmart chain in the US. What I would say in their defense > > is that their plants are really first class! I bought several bunches of > > top quality Anacharis almost 2 years ago & it's never stopped growing-don't > > think I'll ever need to buy any more. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 30 July 2013 12:42, joe t <jett07002@> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you and > > > a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned > > > checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, > > > cause it certainly happened before!! > > > > > > joet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55218	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 7/31/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

Hi Al, Carpet type plants are well beyond my limited expertise as the only plants I use are simple & easy to grow without CO2 with around 8 hours of lighting per day. In addition to the Anacharis I have straight Vallis & a couple of Hornworts all of which grow in profusion & need manually cutting back or pruning on a regular basis or they would take over the tank. My water is 19 inches deep & the lights are approx 4 inches above the water. John*<o)))<* On 31 July 2013 04:29, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > I hope so John. > I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run fish > store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... but their > fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they have many plant > varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do well. They don't > however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok with no co2.... if > there is such a thing.... I've read varying opinions; so that will have to > wait. I really like the little baby tears, but I've read they need co2, and > I don't want to get into that, as it's just a little tank beside the bed. > :-)>>> > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Thinking about box stores in general, we have Pets At Home in the UK > which > > sounds like the PetSmart chain in the US. What I would say in their > defense > > is that their plants are really first class! I bought several bunches of > > top quality Anacharis almost 2 years ago & it's never stopped > growing-don't > > think I'll ever need to buy any more. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 30 July 2013 12:42, joe t <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > Absolutely! A quarantine tank is a MUST. I didn't mention it cause you > and > > > a few others had already said Quarantine Tank. But no one mentioned > > > checking the fish at the store. When I read PetSmart I guess I flipped, > > > cause it certainly happened before!! > > > > > > joet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55219	From: Amber	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: new tank, best fish choice for hard water

I like Mollys myself, but they can get kinda big compared to other "community fish". Platy's and Guppies should also adapt just fine to a harder water and higher pH. A lot of fish will adapt to higher pH and harder water, but it's good that you're taking the time to ask first :) If I was to have a higher pH and harder water I'd get lots of Shrimp! LOL I love watching shrimp. I have very soft water though. Danio's will do good in higher pH and harder water as well. Do you have an exact pH measurement? It would be easier to help offer suggestions if we exactly how high of a pH and if possible your GH and KH readings too. Amber On 7/30/2013 1:19 PM, Laryl wrote: > > I'm setting up a new 25gal tank, and have VERY hard water, very > alkaline and high PH. > What would the happiest fish be in this condition, besides dwarf > cichlids and shell dwellers? Molly's, Rainbow? > > I'd like a little variety but since they need to school.. looks like > I'll only be able to get 2 or 3 different ones at the most? > > __._ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55220	From: Amber	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: ich?

I just recently bought a "carpet type" plant myself. I don't use Co2, but the tank gets natural sunlight a few hours a day, and I have a good quality "plant" substrate/gravel from eco-complete mixed with flora-cor substrate (both for plants). Most of the plants are doing really really well. The darn clown fish keep uprooting my marsilea (the carpet type plant), but I will let you know how well it does without co2. Amber On 7/30/2013 7:29 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > I hope so John. > I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run > fish store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... > but their fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they > have many plant varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do > well. They don't however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok > with no co2.... if there is such a thing.... I've read varying > opinions; so that will have to wait. I really like the little baby > tears, but I've read they need co2, and I don't want to get into that, > as it's just a little tank beside the bed. > :-)>>> > > Al. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55221	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: Amber

Thanks Amber, they look nice; please do, let me know how they do. They may just grow slower without co2. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I just recently bought a "carpet type" plant myself. I don't use Co2, > but the tank gets natural sunlight a few hours a day, and I have a good > quality "plant" substrate/gravel from eco-complete mixed with flora-cor > substrate (both for plants). Most of the plants are doing really really > well. The darn clown fish keep uprooting my marsilea (the carpet type > plant), but I will let you know how well it does without co2. > > Amber > > On 7/30/2013 7:29 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > > > I hope so John. > > I'll be taking the plant plunge in a couple days, and the locally run > > fish store only has a few plants, and they don't look too healthy... > > but their fish are great. I'll be getting them at Petsmart, as they > > have many plant varieties, and they look healthy; so hopefully they do > > well. They don't however have any "carpet" type plants that will do ok > > with no co2.... if there is such a thing.... I've read varying > > opinions; so that will have to wait. I really like the little baby > > tears, but I've read they need co2, and I don't want to get into that, > > as it's just a little tank beside the bed. > > :-)>>> > > > > Al. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55222	From: Laryl	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: Re: new tank, best fish choice for hard water

I actually am going to sell the 25 gallon because my granddaughter's friend was moving and didn't want to take his 55! :) So now I have more room. I had aquariums in this town, another house and it was 17 years ago. I was successful with a varied community tank, so I know they can adapt or at least live a few years, but yes I wanted to "think" first. With this 55 I'm tempted to do another mixed tank with a couple angelfish even though the water might not make them happy. I don't know. My PH is maxed at the end of the hard side of the chart, easily 8.4. Kh is in the ideal range, and GH again at the far end of the chart, 300. I just bought a liquid kit but will save it until I get the new tank going. These readings are from strips. I like mollies and platy when they are young but they don't impress me so much when they get bigger. I would rather have a few cichlids, they are so pretty. In the 55 I could have one male and a few females of the ones that don't get so big. It's tempting. If I go community, I'll put a shrimp in there. :) --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > > I like Mollys myself, but they can get kinda big compared to other > "community fish". > Platy's and Guppies should also adapt just fine to a harder water and > higher pH. A lot of fish will adapt to higher pH and harder water, but > it's good that you're taking the time to ask first :) > If I was to have a higher pH and harder water I'd get lots of Shrimp! > LOL I love watching shrimp. I have very soft water though. > Danio's will do good in higher pH and harder water as well. > > Do you have an exact pH measurement? It would be easier to help offer > suggestions if we exactly how high of a pH and if possible your GH and > KH readings too. > > Amber > > On 7/30/2013 1:19 PM, Laryl wrote: > > > > I'm setting up a new 25gal tank, and have VERY hard water, very > > alkaline and high PH. > > What would the happiest fish be in this condition, besides dwarf > > cichlids and shell dwellers? Molly's, Rainbow? > > > > I'd like a little variety but since they need to school.. looks like > > I'll only be able to get 2 or 3 different ones at the most? > > > > __._ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55223	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/1/2013
Subject: I have new tank

I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55224	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Hi Everyone, What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 large mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier running. The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: NO3=below 5 NO2=zero Ammo=zero pH=7.5 These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount & volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost reading but all results came back as 2. The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55225	From: Patrick	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 > gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. A few that come to mind that may work include... A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. Ummm, running out of ideas. :) Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55226	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen some thing fish forgot their name... Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. > >A few that come to mind that may work include... > >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. > >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). > >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. > >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. > >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. > >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) > >Patrick > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55227	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 large > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier > running. > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > NO3=below 5 > NO2=zero > Ammo=zero > pH=7.5 > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount & > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost reading > but all results came back as 2. > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55228	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along with most fish. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > > If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen some thing fish forgot their name... > Jhanea > Cody .SD & Ava > > http://myfurkidz.webs.com > > Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: > >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 > >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > > > >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. > > > >A few that come to mind that may work include... > > > >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. > > > >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). > > > >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. > > > >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. > > > >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. > > > >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) > > > >Patrick > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55229	From: Amber	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

A mystery snail requires 10 gallons per snail, so that's not a good combo, not to mention my bettas like to try to eat the mystery snails antennas (which I'm sure they don't appreciate, LOL). You might be able to get a few neon tetras, but not very many, 5 gallons is a really small tank. Amber On 8/2/2013 1:15 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along > with most fish. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> > wrote: > > > > If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen > some thing fish forgot their name... > > Jhanea > > Cody .SD & Ava > > > > http://myfurkidz.webs.com > > > > Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: > > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: > > >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 > > >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > > > > > >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too > overly active. > > > > > >A few that come to mind that may work include... > > > > > >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. > > > > > >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). > > > > > >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. > > > > > >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't > offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to > species that stay a bit on the smaller size. > > > > > >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. > > > > > >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) > > > > > >Patrick > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55230	From: Robert	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

A mystery snail requires a minimum of 2.5 gal. Robert --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > > I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > Jhanea > Cody .SD & Ava > > http://myfurkidz.webs.com >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55231	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Hi Al, I don't think so, the pond is very clear this time of year & almost all of the bottom is visible & there is nothing unusual in there. Update: Today the owner tested the water & it gave an NO2 reading of 1 which is half yesterday's value. Strangely he did a 50% PWC & re-tested this evening yet it was still showing 1. At any rate the problem seems to be lessening & the fish are all still acting & feeding as normal. John<o)))< On 2 August 2013 22:11, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 > large > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier > > running. > > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > > > NO3=below 5 > > NO2=zero > > Ammo=zero > > pH=7.5 > > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount > & > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost > reading > > but all results came back as 2. > > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. > > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55232	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

This tank looks like a 10 gal but the box said fish tank kit 5 so i just guess it meant 5 gallon Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: >A mystery snail requires 10 gallons per snail, so that's not a good >combo, not to mention my bettas like to try to eat the mystery snails >antennas (which I'm sure they don't appreciate, LOL). >You might be able to get a few neon tetras, but not very many, 5 gallons >is a really small tank. > >Amber > >On 8/2/2013 1:15 PM, Al Keep wrote: >> >> pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along >> with most fish. >> >> --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> >> wrote: >> > >> > If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen >> some thing fish forgot their name... >> > Jhanea >> > Cody .SD & Ava >> > >> > http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> > >> > Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: >> > >> > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: >> > >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 >> > >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... >> > > >> > >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too >> overly active. >> > > >> > >A few that come to mind that may work include... >> > > >> > >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. >> > > >> > >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). >> > > >> > >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. >> > > >> > >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't >> offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to >> species that stay a bit on the smaller size. >> > > >> > >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. >> > > >> > >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) >> > > >> > >Patrick >> > > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> >> _ > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55233	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

I mean noen tetors or how ever u spell that name Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: >pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along with most fish. > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: >> >> If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen some thing fish forgot their name... >> Jhanea >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> Patrick <ptimlin@...> wrote: >> >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: >> >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 >> >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... >> > >> >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. >> > >> >A few that come to mind that may work include... >> > >> >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. >> > >> >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). >> > >> >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. >> > >> >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. >> > >> >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. >> > >> >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) >> > >> >Patrick >> > >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55234	From: Priss	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Hey John, With it raining heavy is there a lot of run off in the pond? That could make the water spike. I am having the same problem with all the heavy rains here on the east coast in the US. Tatts On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 large > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier > > running. > > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > > > NO3=below 5 > > NO2=zero > > Ammo=zero > > pH=7.5 > > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount & > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost reading > > but all results came back as 2. > > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. > > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55235	From: Amber	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

-----Original Message----- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> Sent: ‎8/‎2/‎2013 3:47 PM To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond Hi Al, I don't think so, the pond is very clear this time of year & almost all of the bottom is visible & there is nothing unusual in there. Update: Today the owner tested the water & it gave an NO2 reading of 1 which is half yesterday's value. Strangely he did a 50% PWC & re-tested this evening yet it was still showing 1. At any rate the problem seems to be lessening & the fish are all still acting & feeding as normal. John<o)))< On 2 August 2013 22:11, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 > large > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier > > running. > > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > > > NO3=below 5 > > NO2=zero > > Ammo=zero > > pH=7.5 > > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount > & > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost > reading > > but all results came back as 2. > > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. > > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55236	From: Priss	Date: 8/2/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

I also forgot to say your NO2 spike can increase in a sudden warm temp change in your water. Like the beginning of spring or sudden warm front passing through. I really wouldn't do nothing atm. If the pond was stable before it should stabilize itself. It is normal with how you describe with heavy rains and warmer temp. I'd let the bio filter stabilize itself. It sounds like it just spiked from the rain and warmer temps. Tatts On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > Hey John, > With it raining heavy is there a lot of run off in the pond? That could make the water spike. > I am having the same problem with all the heavy rains here on the east coast in the US. > > Tatts > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 spike? > > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx 250 > > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 large > > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV clarifier > > > running. > > > > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & vac > > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > > > > > NO3=below 5 > > > NO2=zero > > > Ammo=zero > > > pH=7.5 > > > > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has been > > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same amount & > > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the test > > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several times > > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost reading > > > but all results came back as 2. > > > > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain recently. > > > > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > > > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55237	From: Jamie W	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: help

my friend said to come here .. i have cichlids and my jack as went from normal looking to all mot to a solid black can anyone help me am on yahoo msg. 95 % of the time any help would be grateful

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55238	From: Ray	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: help

Jamie, There are a number of stimuli which would cause the coloration of this Cichlid to deepen, some favorable and others not so favorable. As the normal background color of this fish is black, with blue spangling, this will darken when the fish modifies its coloration into breeding dress. One other influence on this fish into changing its all-over coloration happens when a darker substrate is added to its tank. Its pigmentation automatically increases when its eyes tell the brain that it's increasingly in an environment over a darker bottom and this stimulus promotes heavier amounts of dark pigmentation to develop to more closely match the bottom. This change can come as quickly as 4 to 5 days over a different bottom. This Cichlid can also darken when its environment is adverse to its liking. This includes the water that the fish is residing in, firat and foremost, and is often accompanied by a loss or decrease in appetite. Most often, the adversity is a lowering of the pH beyond what the fish is comfortable in -- a pH that's out of the fish's normal range -- even though it may be very adaptable to a moderately wide range. This can often be accompanieed by an increase in DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids), but not necessarily. I have several questions I need to ask you, to help in rectifying this situation. How often do you change water and how much do you change at each time? What is your pH level? What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Is this fish eating normally or has it lost at least some appetite? Has its behavior changed to being more reclusive? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie W" <no1fisherman20002004@...> wrote: > > my friend said to come here .. i have cichlids and my jack as went from normal looking to all most to a solid black can anyone help me am on yahoo msg. 95 % of the time any help would be grateful >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55239	From: Ava	Date: 8/3/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

I keep African Dwarf Frogs with my betta --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > > I mean noen tetors or how ever u spell that name > Jhanea > Cody .SD & Ava > > http://myfurkidz.webs.com > > Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > >pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along with most fish. > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: > >> > >> If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen some thing fish forgot their name... > >> Jhanea > >> Cody .SD & Ava > >> > >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >> > >> Patrick <ptimlin@> wrote: > >> > >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: > >> >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 > >> >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > >> > > >> >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. > >> > > >> >A few that come to mind that may work include... > >> > > >> >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. > >> > > >> >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). > >> > > >> >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. > >> > > >> >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. > >> > > >> >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. > >> > > >> >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) > >> > > >> >Patrick > >> > > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55240	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Hi Tatts, Yes we have had some heavy rain in the past few days & it also has been very humid & warm. Additionally the fish are all still acting & looking perfectly normal so I think you may be right about the weather temporarily upsetting the water. When you have the same problem, how long does it take before the pond stabilises itself? John*<o)))<* On 3 August 2013 03:55, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > I also forgot to say your NO2 spike can increase in a sudden warm temp > change in your water. Like the beginning of spring or sudden warm front > passing through. > I really wouldn't do nothing atm. If the pond was stable before it should > stabilize itself. It is normal with how you describe with heavy rains and > warmer temp. I'd let the bio filter stabilize itself. It sounds like it > just spiked from the rain and warmer temps. > > Tatts > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > Hey John, > > With it raining heavy is there a lot of run off in the pond? That could > make the water spike. > > I am having the same problem with all the heavy rains here on the east > coast in the US. > > > > Tatts > > > > On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 > spike? > > > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & approx > 250 > > > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has 2 > large > > > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV > clarifier > > > > running. > > > > > > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & > vac > > > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > > > > > > > > NO3=below 5 > > > > NO2=zero > > > > Ammo=zero > > > > pH=7.5 > > > > > > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has > been > > > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same > amount & > > > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the > test > > > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several > times > > > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost > reading > > > > but all results came back as 2. > > > > > > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain > recently. > > > > > > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > > > > > > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55241	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

I use to have them frogs but i always dream of them jumping out lol Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: >I keep African Dwarf Frogs with my betta > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: >> >> I mean noen tetors or how ever u spell that name >> Jhanea >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: >> >> >pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along with most fish. >> > >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: >> >> >> >> If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen some thing fish forgot their name... >> >> Jhanea >> >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> >> >> Patrick <ptimlin@> wrote: >> >> >> >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: >> >> >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 >> >> >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... >> >> > >> >> >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too overly active. >> >> > >> >> >A few that come to mind that may work include... >> >> > >> >> >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. >> >> > >> >> >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). >> >> > >> >> >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. >> >> > >> >> >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species that stay a bit on the smaller size. >> >> > >> >> >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. >> >> > >> >> >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) >> >> > >> >> >Patrick >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55242	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

Hi Jhanea, If you keep frogs then you need a fitted lid for your tank & make sure there are no openings they can climb through. Those fish you were talking about are called Neon Tetras. John*<o)))<* On 4 August 2013 09:43, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > ** > > > I use to have them frogs but i always dream of them jumping out lol > > Jhanea > Cody .SD & Ava > > http://myfurkidz.webs.com > > Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > >I keep African Dwarf Frogs with my betta > > > >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > >> > >> I mean noen tetors or how ever u spell that name > >> Jhanea > >> Cody .SD & Ava > >> > >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >> > >> Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > >> > >> >pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along > with most fish. > >> > > >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen > some thing fish forgot their name... > >> >> Jhanea > >> >> Cody .SD & Ava > >> >> > >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com > >> >> > >> >> Patrick <ptimlin@> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> > wrote: > >> >> >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 > >> >> >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... > >> >> > > >> >> >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too > overly active. > >> >> > > >> >> >A few that come to mind that may work include... > >> >> > > >> >> >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. > >> >> > > >> >> >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). > >> >> > > >> >> >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. > >> >> > > >> >> >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't > offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species > that stay a bit on the smaller size. > >> >> > > >> >> >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. > >> >> > > >> >> >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) > >> >> > > >> >> >Patrick > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55243	From: Ava	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Molly gave birth

I suspected my cousins molly was pregnant so he and I went out and bought a net box for the fry but unfortunately when we got back she apparently gave birth while we were gone. I was able to scoop the fry into the net box, I added a moss ball and one little plant to the box, and gave them some Hikari First Bites. Temp is around 78F. Unfortunately his 3 year old daughter tried to feed the fish earlier before the birth and gave waaaaayyyy too much, fouling the water. I really need to vacuum the gravel, but I'm afraid of stressing them out. Advice? I've never raised fry before. 10gal. Filtered/aerated/heated. Net box is on opposite side of air/filter so they aren't disturbed. Thanks.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55244	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Hey John, When we have heavy downpours it takes anywhere from 3 days to a week for my pond to stabilize. I try to leave it alone and just keep a eye on my fish. Unless the readings are off the chart and the Koi looks stress. Good luck Tatts -------------------------------------------------- From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:23 AM To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond > Hi Tatts, > > Yes we have had some heavy rain in the past few days & it also has been > very humid & warm. Additionally the fish are all still acting & looking > perfectly normal so I think you may be right about the weather temporarily > upsetting the water. > > When you have the same problem, how long does it take before the pond > stabilises itself? > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 3 August 2013 03:55, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I also forgot to say your NO2 spike can increase in a sudden warm temp >> change in your water. Like the beginning of spring or sudden warm front >> passing through. >> I really wouldn't do nothing atm. If the pond was stable before it should >> stabilize itself. It is normal with how you describe with heavy rains and >> warmer temp. I'd let the bio filter stabilize itself. It sounds like it >> just spiked from the rain and warmer temps. >> >> Tatts >> >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: >> >> > Hey John, >> > With it raining heavy is there a lot of run off in the pond? That could >> make the water spike. >> > I am having the same problem with all the heavy rains here on the east >> coast in the US. >> > >> > Tatts >> > >> > On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: >> > >> > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? >> > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hi Everyone, >> > > > >> > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 >> spike? >> > > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & >> > > > approx >> 250 >> > > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & has >> > > > 2 >> large >> > > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV >> clarifier >> > > > running. >> > > > >> > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change & >> vac >> > > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: >> > > > >> > > > NO3=below 5 >> > > > NO2=zero >> > > > Ammo=zero >> > > > pH=7.5 >> > > > >> > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has >> been >> > > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same >> amount & >> > > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday the >> test >> > > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several >> times >> > > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost >> reading >> > > > but all results came back as 2. >> > > > >> > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain >> recently. >> > > > >> > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. >> > > > >> > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? >> > > > >> > > > John*<o)))<* >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55245	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: I have new tank

Ya i wont keep frogs no more Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: >Hi Jhanea, > > If you keep frogs then you need a fitted lid for your tank & make sure >there are no openings they can climb through. Those fish you were talking >about are called Neon Tetras. > > John*<o)))<* > > > >On 4 August 2013 09:43, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> I use to have them frogs but i always dream of them jumping out lol >> >> Jhanea >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> Ava <aboswell91@...> wrote: >> >> >I keep African Dwarf Frogs with my betta >> > >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> I mean noen tetors or how ever u spell that name >> >> Jhanea >> >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> >> >> Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> >pigmy corys are just about an inch... or a platy... they get along >> with most fish. >> >> > >> >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> If i can find a 5 gal div i would do that.... what about them noen >> some thing fish forgot their name... >> >> >> Jhanea >> >> >> Cody .SD & Ava >> >> >> >> >> >> http://myfurkidz.webs.com >> >> >> >> >> >> Patrick <ptimlin@> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Jhanea <morningstar1576@> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I got my betta a new tank today he was in a gal now he is in a 5 >> >> >> >> gallon... i want to add more fish what fish goes ok with betta... >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Well nothing that nips fins, obviously and nothing that is too >> overly active. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >A few that come to mind that may work include... >> >> >> > >> >> >> >A large snail (mystery, apple, ramshorn, etc.) of some sort. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >White Cloud Mountain minnows (good for small and unheated tanks). >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Otto Cats (Otocinclus), especially if you put some plants in there. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >MAYBE Cory Cats, but they need a school and a 5 gallon doesn't >> offer a lot of room for them to roam and you would have to stick to species >> that stay a bit on the smaller size. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Put a divider in the tank and keep TWO bettas. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Ummm, running out of ideas. :) >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Patrick >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55246	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Is there something going around?

Hi all. I think my dear wife may have caught a bug; and while it may not be the fish bug; she enjoys looking at our tanks, but that's about as far as it has gone; it's close. Frogs; yup frogs. She had one as a kid, and now wants to use the 20 gallon that's empty, to set up a terrarium/frog enclosure in living room. Sounds cool, bless her. My only problem is that I had the whole thing planned in my head within an hour; and I'm trying to stay out of it, and let it be her thing. :-)>>> Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55247	From: Amber Larr	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Is there something going around?

I've got myself a turtle. I prefer them over frogs. A little less fragile. But, they do cost a little more in upkeep than a frog (Large tanks and filter and all...) In fact, my 55 gallon is going towards my turtle as soon as I get a bigger tank made/ built for my balas! :) Don't get me wrong, though. I'd get a frog if I could. Hmm... I do have some empty 10 gallons laying around... Ah well, frog after bunny. I'm already planning on getting a bunny, and then planting a 10 gallon and getting some fish... And then, if I can find room somewhere in the house, maybe I will get a frog! Muwahha (evil laugh...) ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 3:34 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Is there something going around? Hi all. I think my dear wife may have caught a bug; and while it may not be the fish bug; she enjoys looking at our tanks, but that's about as far as it has gone; it's close. Frogs; yup frogs. She had one as a kid, and now wants to use the 20 gallon that's empty, to set up a terrarium/frog enclosure in living room. Sounds cool, bless her. My only problem is that I had the whole thing planned in my head within an hour; and I'm trying to stay out of it, and let it be her thing. :-)>>> Al. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55248	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond

Thanks Tatts, I'll see what the readings are tomorrow & let you know. John*<o)))<* On 4 August 2013 17:00, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey John, > When we have heavy downpours it takes anywhere from 3 days to a week for > my > pond to stabilize. > I try to leave it alone and just keep a eye on my fish. Unless the > readings > are off the chart and the Koi looks stress. > Good luck > Tatts > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "SIMMONDS JOHN" <simmonds.john@...> > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 5:23 AM > To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Sudden Nitrite Spike In Pond > > > Hi Tatts, > > > > Yes we have had some heavy rain in the past few days & it also has been > > very humid & warm. Additionally the fish are all still acting & looking > > perfectly normal so I think you may be right about the weather > temporarily > > upsetting the water. > > > > When you have the same problem, how long does it take before the pond > > stabilises itself? > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 3 August 2013 03:55, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> I also forgot to say your NO2 spike can increase in a sudden warm temp > >> change in your water. Like the beginning of spring or sudden warm front > >> passing through. > >> I really wouldn't do nothing atm. If the pond was stable before it > should > >> stabilize itself. It is normal with how you describe with heavy rains > and > >> warmer temp. I'd let the bio filter stabilize itself. It sounds like it > >> just spiked from the rain and warmer temps. > >> > >> Tatts > >> > >> On Aug 2, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Priss <tattsmc@...> wrote: > >> > >> > Hey John, > >> > With it raining heavy is there a lot of run off in the pond? That > could > >> make the water spike. > >> > I am having the same problem with all the heavy rains here on the east > >> coast in the US. > >> > > >> > Tatts > >> > > >> > On Aug 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, "Al Keep" <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Could a critter have gotten there and died and sunk to the bottom? > >> > > > >> > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@ > ...> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Everyone, > >> > > > > >> > > > What would cause a mature & stable pond to suddenly have an NO2 > >> spike? > >> > > > The pond in question is 25,000 UK gallons with 10 large Koi & > >> > > > approx > >> 250 > >> > > > Goldfish. The pond has been up & running for almost 10 years & > has > >> > > > 2 > >> large > >> > > > mechanical filters. It is also aerated with 6 stones & has a UV > >> clarifier > >> > > > running. > >> > > > > >> > > > The owner has had no problems before, I do a regular water change > & > >> vac > >> > > > plus a filter clean every 2 weeks & the results are usually: > >> > > > > >> > > > NO3=below 5 > >> > > > NO2=zero > >> > > > Ammo=zero > >> > > > pH=7.5 > >> > > > > >> > > > These results have been constant for at least 2 years, nothing has > >> been > >> > > > added, changed or removed. No new fish have been added & the same > >> amount & > >> > > > volume of food is offered at the same times each day. Yesterday > the > >> test > >> > > > results were as above except the NO2 was 2. I retested it several > >> times > >> > > > from different parts of the system to make sure it was not a ghost > >> reading > >> > > > but all results came back as 2. > >> > > > > >> > > > The weather has been very warm & humid with lots of heavy rain > >> recently. > >> > > > > >> > > > The fish are all looking & acting quite normally. > >> > > > > >> > > > Should I tell him to do large daily water changes & stop feeding? > >> > > > > >> > > > John*<o)))<* > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > >> > > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, > which > > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where > > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55249	From: Robert	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: New goldfish

My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair so, based on my experiences with my beta, we got a 1.5gal Tetra tank a fake plant and a small decoration. My question is besides the usual PWT, feeding and cleaning, what else does a goldfish need? I am going to take a water sample to the local store and possibly get a Ph kit. Thanks in advance Rob

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55250	From: Erica Franklin	Date: 8/4/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Your going to need a bigger tank then that here is info for goldfish care hope this helps http://www.wikihow.com/Take-Care-of-Goldfish ________________________________ From: Robert <rpmazur@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 8:59 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] New goldfish   My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair so, based on my experiences with my beta, we got a 1.5gal Tetra tank a fake plant and a small decoration. My question is besides the usual PWT, feeding and cleaning, what else does a goldfish need? I am going to take a water sample to the local store and possibly get a Ph kit. Thanks in advance Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55251	From: Ray	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Hi Rob, Glad to see that your daughter has entered the hobby of keeping fish. I hope we can help in assuring her success with this goldfish and I'm glad you came here to inquire about this topic. I notice you've had some experience with Betta keeping, so this should help. The similarity of a Betta to a goldfish ends there (in that they're both fish) though. Bettas stay relatively small -- well, small enough to keep in a small tank, even though we really recommend at least a 2.5 gallon tank for them. Your 1.5 gallon tank is at least much larger than one of those Betta bowls, which they (Bettas) should never be kept in. With goldfish though, they do not stay as small as a Betta, and actually can grow to between 12" and 14" for the straight-tail varieties; they're really pond fish, although some hobbyists do keep them in large aquariums (VERY large aquariums). Your 1.5 gallon tank will house this goldfish for a very short while, but if you want to give this fish the most optimum conditions for it to reach its full potential, you'll need to upgrade a a larger tank very soon to prevent stunting. While it's true that goldfish have been kept in goldfish bowls and small aquaria in the past, such confinement does stunt these fish and compromises their health in the process; it's far from the ideal conditions for them. I doubt you were prepared for this reqirement, and you may even consider buying increasingly larger tanks as this fish grows, but after going through a number of tanks, it can get expensive. Ideally, one straight-tail goldfish actually needs about 75 gallons to grow to it's full size, but right now this fish would be lost in such a large tank, and it may seem like gross overkill in tank size. They surely will grow into it however. Some hobbyists use a smaller (20 or 30 gallon) tank to start with, then graduate to a 75 gallon tank once their fish reaches a size that they're about to outgrow this smaller tank, but I just wanted to let you know what you've gotten yourself in to. It's always best for the fish to consider its full potential size when buying a tank for it, rather than the much smaller size it is when it's first obtained, and this goes for any fish. Goldfish are not Tetras, and do not stay as small as them forever, or even for a very short time. That's about the best advice I can give you on goldfish's needs. They need adequate partial water changes -- which would be kept at a minimum of about once a week in a suitably large tank as they grow -- rather than once a day in a tank that's too small for them. They're large waste producers and will need lots of water changing to keep their water clean if their tank is too small. They also need a good filtration system, which you haven't mentioned here, so that's one more factor you might have been looking for. a Ph kit always comes in handy and sooner or later you'll find it as a must. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate kits are also very helpful in monitoring your water quality, and all of these kits can usually be found in one master kit containing them all. We (most of us)recommend Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brand as being one of the better ones. Best of luck with your new acquisition and keep us informed. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair so, based on my experiences with my beta, we got a 1.5gal Tetra tank a fake plant and a small decoration. > > My question is besides the usual PWT, feeding and cleaning, what else does a goldfish need? > > I am going to take a water sample to the local store and possibly get a Ph kit. > > Thanks in advance > > Rob >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55252	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Sadly dude, a goldfish needs a 30-40 gallon tank; so if that's not feasible, you may want to get rid of it before the young lady gets too attached. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair so, based on my experiences with my beta, we got a 1.5gal Tetra tank a fake plant and a small decoration. > > My question is besides the usual PWT, feeding and cleaning, what else does a goldfish need? > > I am going to take a water sample to the local store and possibly get a Ph kit. > > Thanks in advance > > Rob >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55253	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Hi Rob, By get rid if it surely Al meant you to give it away to someone with a pond or large Goldfish tank rather than any underhand methods!! Seriously, your Goldfish is lucky that you have taken the time to ask on here-unfortunately most of these poor creatures do not have that opportunity. As Ray said you will need to seriously upgrade that 1.5 gallon tank very soon because your fish will need as much room as he can get to grow to his full potential. The link Erica posted is an excellent introduction although I would recommend only using the tank lighting for up to 8 hours per day or even less if you don't have any real plants. Just to give you an idea how these intelligent & friendly fish grow & their needs have a look at my tank here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/list I have 4 regular Goldfish in a 100 UK gallon tank, my oldest fish turned 10 this year & like yours was a fairground prize although unlike yourself I had no idea what to do with him when I brought him home & his survival together with a couple of friends for the first 2 years were more luck than design. Large as possible tank, big filtration & plenty of partial water changes. Best of luck-please keep us posted, especially let us know if you have any concerns, questions or problems & we will talk you thought it because the initial setting-up & cycling of the tank can be problematic. John*<o)))<* On 5 August 2013 04:30, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Sadly dude, a goldfish needs a 30-40 gallon tank; so if that's not > feasible, you may want to get rid of it before the young lady gets too > attached. > > Al. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > > > My daughter won a goldfish at a local fair so, based on my experiences > with my beta, we got a 1.5gal Tetra tank a fake plant and a small > decoration. > > > > My question is besides the usual PWT, feeding and cleaning, what else > does a goldfish need? > > > > I am going to take a water sample to the local store and possibly get a > Ph kit. > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Rob > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55254	From: Amber Larr	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

I had goldfish once. Like you, I started out with a very small tank (I think it was 3 or 5 gallons). I had four goldfish at the time, I think. They were fine, and I thought everything was perfect. But, then one day our neighbor gave us a 10 gallon tank full of guppies. I took out one of them (a nice blue one) and put it in with my goldfish. After a while, most of the guppies ended up dieing. Looking back, I'm sure we did something wrong. Full water changes are survivialble for goldfish but not tiny baby guppy fry. Anyway, I ended up switching their tanks. The guppies had the 3 or 5 gallon tank and my goldfish had the 10 gallon. They grew to that really fast. Soon, they outgrew it. The water got so dirty so fast. Of course, it would help  if I had ever cycled the tank... Anyway, I decided to start looking for a bigger tank. I found one. A 55 gallon for 25 dollars. We got it right away. It came with the parts to an undergravel filter but not the filter itself. We never used it. One of the peices that go under the gravel is now being used as my turtle's basking area. We bought some decorations, and a larger filter. But, for some reason, we had a leak in the tank. So, we ended up draining it out and taking it outside. There it sat for a whole winter. Come spring, we decided to try again. We filed it up halfway outside and let it sit for a day. No leaks. So, eventually we cleaned it out and broght it in. We filled it up with water. I took the 10-30 gallon internal filter we had gotten for the goldfish and put that in there. Then, we put the goldfish in. Eventually, after a couple months with my goldfish in the 55 gallon, I leaned of cycling and did my best to cycle the tank. I didn't have any test strips, and I still don't have any to this day. But, I did my best. It turned out that my best was not good enough. I lost one of my female goldfish (I had two.) and eventually I decided that I could not provide for them. I wanted a change. So, I put a free ad in the paper and waited. A day later a lady called and said she had a pond that they could go to. So, we dropped them off at her house. I told her that the pure white one was a girl and the other three were boys. I also told her the  gold one was a comet, not a regular goldfish. I doubt she even remembers. Anyway, now I've got a rainbow shark, five tiger barbs, and two bala sharks in my tank. I'm planning on upgrading and getting some more balas soon. But, for now, the 55 gallon is more than enough. So, there's my experience. I hope it helps you, hearing from another person like you. ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: New goldfish Hi Rob,   By get rid if it surely Al meant you to give it away to someone with a pond or large Goldfish tank rather than any underhand methods!! Seriously, your Goldfish is lucky that you have taken the time to ask on here-unfortunately most of these poor creatures do not have that opportunity. As Ray said you will need to seriously upgrade that 1.5 gallon tank very soon because your fish will need as much room as he can get to grow to his full potential. The link Erica posted is an excellent introduction although I would recommend only using the tank lighting for up to 8 hours per day or even less if you don't have any real plants. Just to give you an idea how these intelligent & friendly fish grow & their needs have a look at my tank here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1235942302/pic/list I have 4 regular Goldfish in a 100 UK gallon tank, my oldest fish turned 10 this year & like yours was  a fairground prize although unlike yourself I had no idea what to do with him when I brought him home & his survival together with a couple of friends for the first 2 years were more luck than design. Large as possible tank, big filtration & plenty of partial water changes. Best of luck-please keep us posted, especially let us know if you have any concerns, questions or problems & we will talk you thought it because the initial setting-up & cycling of the tank can be problematic.   John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55255	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/5/2013
Subject: Planting a new beginning.

Hi all. Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a marimo moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood somewhere... don't know where yet. They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, and make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home in time. I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55256	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Hi Al, That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my bogwood it took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my tank. John*<o)))<* On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi all. > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a marimo > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood somewhere... > don't know where yet. > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, and > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home in > time. > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > Al. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55257	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Thanks John. Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, but I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The wood had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of water changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly won't do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are supposed to enjoy that type of water anyway. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my bogwood it > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my tank. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a marimo > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood somewhere... > > don't know where yet. > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, and > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home in > > time. > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55258	From: Ava	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Molly fry tank?

Right now I have 2 day old molly fry still in the net box in the 10 gal where the mother fish is. I have a 5.5 gallon tank and a small heater that I could potentially put the fry in. Here are my concerns: 1. Tank is currently empty--so it's not cycled. 2. Do not have a filter or air stone. 3. The heater is meant for a betta I think because it defaults at 80F. Is that too warm? So could I fill the tank with dechlorinated water without a filter and be okay? I'm not sure how quickly 20ish fry will raise the ammonia. Or should I leave them in the net box?

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55259	From: Jamie W	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: help

my ph is 7.4 all test comes back good and he eats fine he is about 2 inchs but as not went back to the normal color as when i got him from petco . here is all my fish ..that is in the tank Green terror,bicar,,silver tipped shark,3 lg convicts,black banded s,1 lg firemouths jack dempsey,upside down catfish,pleco,lace catfish and they all are doing fine pleaase add me to yahoo no1fisherman20002004@... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Jamie, > > There are a number of stimuli which would cause the coloration of this Cichlid to deepen, some favorable and others not so favorable. As the normal background color of this fish is black, with blue spangling, this will darken when the fish modifies its coloration into breeding dress. > > One other influence on this fish into changing its all-over coloration happens when a darker substrate is added to its tank. Its pigmentation automatically increases when its eyes tell the brain that it's increasingly in an environment over a darker bottom and this stimulus promotes heavier amounts of dark pigmentation to develop to more closely match the bottom. This change can come as quickly as 4 to 5 days over a different bottom. > > This Cichlid can also darken when its environment is adverse to its liking. This includes the water that the fish is residing in, firat and foremost, and is often accompanied by a loss or decrease in appetite. Most often, the adversity is a lowering of the pH beyond what the fish is comfortable in -- a pH that's out of the fish's normal range -- even though it may be very adaptable to a moderately wide range. This can often be accompanieed by an increase in DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids), but not necessarily. > > I have several questions I need to ask you, to help in rectifying this situation. How often do you change water and how much do you change at each time? What is your pH level? What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Is this fish eating normally or has it lost at least some appetite? Has its behavior changed to being more reclusive? > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie W" <no1fisherman20002004@> wrote: > > > > my friend said to come here .. i have cichlids and my jack as went from normal looking to all most to a solid black can anyone help me am on yahoo msg. 95 % of the time any help would be grateful > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55260	From: kbgwp	Date: 8/6/2013
Subject: Re: Molly fry tank?

If you have an air pump or can spare some air from your 10 gallon tank (like a multi-output valve), you can make a pretty simple filter with a small jar, some aquarium gravel and a piece of plastic pipe. It would be a simplified box filter. What you do is put the pipe in the jar with the air line at the bottom of the pipe. Then, just fill the jar with some aquarium gravel. By pumping air into the bottom of the pipe (no air stone is needed especially if you can regulate the air flow), it will draw water through the gravel and then back out the pipe trapping food or waste in the gravel. It won't suck the water into the jar with a lot of force so the little fry won't get stuck in the filter like could happen with a hang on back filter and, on a small tank, will clean the water pretty good. Using some gravel from your 10 gallon tank might even help seed the filter with good bacteria and help cycle the new tank. You will still want to do partial water changes and test the water if you have a test kit to keep the ammonia and nitrites under control but this is a cheap filter that can be thrown together without much work. I think the 80 degree heater will work but you might want to wait for other responses. Hope this helps. Brian in PA --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ava" <aboswell91@...> wrote: > > Right now I have 2 day old molly fry still in the net box in the 10 gal where the mother fish is. I have a 5.5 gallon tank and a small heater that I could potentially put the fry in. Here are my concerns: > 1. Tank is currently empty--so it's not cycled. > 2. Do not have a filter or air stone. > 3. The heater is meant for a betta I think because it defaults at 80F. Is that too warm? > > So could I fill the tank with dechlorinated water without a filter and be okay? I'm not sure how quickly 20ish fry will raise the ammonia. > Or should I leave them in the net box? >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55261	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Yes, I understand the tea effect is not detrimental to the fish, it just doesn't look very nice to us! I also believe you can secure the wood with fish friendly silicone but that seems a bit permanent if you want to alter the d�cor at any time. I have a large bogwood arch in mine, it's not secured with anything permanent as it is quite stable free-standing but for added safety I have a couple of hefty clay plant pots holding it in a pincer-like style at one end so it is safe from the boisterous play of my 4 big fish. Incidentally, the bogwood arch is not quite tall enough for my fish to pass through upright but they have all mastered the art of turning sideways & sliding under in a very nifty manner. John*<o)))<* On 6 August 2013 19:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks John. > Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, but > I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will > tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The wood > had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. > The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of water > changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the > filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly won't > do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are supposed to > enjoy that type of water anyway. > > :-)>>> > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my bogwood it > > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my tank. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to > > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a > marimo > > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood > somewhere... > > > don't know where yet. > > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, > and > > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home > in > > > time. > > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55262	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Hey John. I just saw the pic of your arch... that would be funny to see if you could tape them doing that trick, and put it on youtube. :-)>>> I did the same thing as you, only with a rock on each side of the wood for added assurance. the plants are still staying put; hopefully they put down roots well. They are in fluval plant substrate, but if they came up, I thought I could pile some of the gravel that I made a path with, at the base of each plant... may not look too bad... Your plants look good; do you use liquid or tab fertilizer? I used liquid. The platy I put in there to get the cycle started, looks healthy and happy, so that's good; I squeezed out the sponge from the 40 into the new media. How many hours a day would you recommend I keep the lights on? I've read various opinions; apparently if it's too much, you get algae. It's 26 watts, and the tank is only 12 inches deep. Thanks dude. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Yes, I understand the tea effect is not detrimental to the fish, it just > doesn't look very nice to us! I also believe you can secure the wood with > fish friendly silicone but that seems a bit permanent if you want to alter > the décor at any time. I have a large bogwood arch in mine, it's not > secured with anything permanent as it is quite stable free-standing but for > added safety I have a couple of hefty clay plant pots holding it in a > pincer-like style at one end so it is safe from the boisterous play of my 4 > big fish. > > Incidentally, the bogwood arch is not quite tall enough for my fish to > pass through upright but they have all mastered the art of turning sideways > & sliding under in a very nifty manner. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 6 August 2013 19:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Thanks John. > > Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, but > > I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will > > tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The wood > > had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. > > The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of water > > changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the > > filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly won't > > do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are supposed to > > enjoy that type of water anyway. > > > > :-)>>> > > > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > > > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my bogwood it > > > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my tank. > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to > > > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a > > marimo > > > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood > > somewhere... > > > > don't know where yet. > > > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, > > and > > > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home > > in > > > > time. > > > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55263	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Hi Al, I also very much want to capture that sliding action for posterity but my fish have other ideas & only do it when my camera is stashed securely away form the tank! I would recommend using only aquarium safe gravel because not only will it be smoother & more uniform sized so they cannot get any sharp bits stuck in their throats but also regular builder's gravel can contain any number of different rock such as limestone that could upset the pH. All I use for my plants is to set them in regular clay terra-cotta pots & planters that you would use in the garden because that is inert. Inside I use a sandy mix called TetraPlant substrate which is quite expensive but lasts virtually forever but you need to cover the top of it well with marbles/pebbles or the fish will dig it all out in no time. I imagine you can get that in Canada? I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical side of lighting so perhaps one of the experts can jump in here & explain why my set up works so well with the plants I have. My tank water depth is 19" but the two free-standing lighting rigs are set about 24" from the gravel. They each have 2 lamps-one being a standard white & the other a tropical pink both 39W & both 34" long. The lamps are only on for 7 1/2 hours per day, I think any more & you would have a serious algae problem. Not only that but the smaller the tank you have then the more the lights will raise the temperature of the water with the consequent drop once they are off which is going to be stressful for the fish going up & down all the time, my tank is 100 UK gallons so it can absorb the heat from the light better with almost no overall temperature change during a 24 hour period. Maybe there are low light plants that someone could suggest? all I have is regular Anacharis, Straight [Jungle?] Vallis & a couple of different Hornworts. I have tried many plants over the years, some really lovely ones like Pennywort & Cabomba but my fish have destroyed everything else so the hardy few plants I have are more by default than choice-obviously not nice tasting to Goldfish! John*<o)))<* On 7 August 2013 17:50, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hey John. > I just saw the pic of your arch... that would be funny to see if you could > tape them doing that trick, and put it on youtube. :-)>>> > I did the same thing as you, only with a rock on each side of the wood for > added assurance. the plants are still staying put; hopefully they put down > roots well. They are in fluval plant substrate, but if they came up, I > thought I could pile some of the gravel that I made a path with, at the > base of each plant... may not look too bad... > Your plants look good; do you use liquid or tab fertilizer? I used liquid. > The platy I put in there to get the cycle started, looks healthy and happy, > so that's good; I squeezed out the sponge from the 40 into the new media. > How many hours a day would you recommend I keep the lights on? I've read > various opinions; apparently if it's too much, you get algae. It's 26 > watts, and the tank is only 12 inches deep. > > Thanks dude. > > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Yes, I understand the tea effect is not detrimental to the fish, it just > > doesn't look very nice to us! I also believe you can secure the wood with > > fish friendly silicone but that seems a bit permanent if you want to > alter > > the d�cor at any time. I have a large bogwood arch in mine, it's not > > secured with anything permanent as it is quite stable free-standing but > for > > added safety I have a couple of hefty clay plant pots holding it in a > > pincer-like style at one end so it is safe from the boisterous play of > my 4 > > big fish. > > > > Incidentally, the bogwood arch is not quite tall enough for my fish to > > pass through upright but they have all mastered the art of turning > sideways > > & sliding under in a very nifty manner. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 19:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Thanks John. > > > Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, > but > > > I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will > > > tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The > wood > > > had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. > > > The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of > water > > > changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the > > > filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly > won't > > > do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are > supposed to > > > enjoy that type of water anyway. > > > > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > > > > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my > bogwood it > > > > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my > tank. > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > > > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four > plants to > > > > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > > > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > > > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a > > > marimo > > > > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood > > > somewhere... > > > > > don't know where yet. > > > > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone > survives, > > > and > > > > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it > home > > > in > > > > > time. > > > > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55264	From: deenerzz	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

You can use crazy glue or super glue. Just watch your finger tips. Hold it in place for a few minutes outside the water and it should be fine. -----Original Message----- From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 7, 2013 4:49 am Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Planting a new beginning. Yes, I understand the tea effect is not detrimental to the fish, it just oesn't look very nice to us! I also believe you can secure the wood with ish friendly silicone but that seems a bit permanent if you want to alter he d�cor at any time. I have a large bogwood arch in mine, it's not ecured with anything permanent as it is quite stable free-standing but for dded safety I have a couple of hefty clay plant pots holding it in a incer-like style at one end so it is safe from the boisterous play of my 4 ig fish. Incidentally, the bogwood arch is not quite tall enough for my fish to ass through upright but they have all mastered the art of turning sideways sliding under in a very nifty manner. John*<o)))<* n 6 August 2013 19:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** Thanks John. Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, but I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The wood had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of water changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly won't do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are supposed to enjoy that type of water anyway. :-)>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my bogwood it > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my tank. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four plants to > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a marimo > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood somewhere... > > don't know where yet. > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone survives, and > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it home in > > time. > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s lease, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ��`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> LEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the eply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> .e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- �((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. e Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can hange your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home age. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which ncludes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you ill still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! roups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55265	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: New betta

So i desided to get another betta.... and i got a div but it was for a 10 gal so i cut it to size but made it to small and betta was able to get thou....so i had to put my new betta in my 1 gal until i can get another 5 gal or a 3 gal.... Jhanea Cody .SD & Ava http://myfurkidz.webs.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55266	From: Robert	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Thanks for all your advice. I have the "stock" filter that came with the 1.5gal tank. It's the 1.5 gallon Tetra tank. It's square and has a light on it. We typically keep the light on during the daytime hours and shut it off at bed time. We have a 30 gallon tank that I need to test to see if it will hold water, but the bigger issue is that we really don't have the space for the 30gal at this moment in time. We are trying to see where we can put it and then we'd move the goldfish to the larger tank. We simply don't have room for anything much larger than the 30gal at the moment. I am on active duty so I have to plan for a move every 3 years or so, but I know that transporting fish really isn't hard if the correct steps are taken. Again, thanks for all the advice. The only other thing I will ask is about feeding. I've read on a few different sites to "mix it up" a little. Combinations of flakes/pallet with dried shrimp and the such. Cheers. Rob --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > I had goldfish once. Like you, I started out with a very small tank (I think it was 3 or 5 gallons). I had four goldfish at the time, I think. They were fine, and I thought everything was perfect. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55267	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/7/2013
Subject: Re: Planting a new beginning.

Hey John. Hope things are well across the pond. My fish don't like to cooperate for pictures either John. Ya, it's aquarium gravel that I had used to make a path under the arch in the wood. lol. I started with a ridge of it, and then put the fluval plant substrate on both sides of it; hopefully they don't get too mixed up, but I figured it was worth a shot. Thanks; maybe I'll keep the light down to about 8 hours a day; there's a lamp on the table so the fish don't have to be in the dark 16 hours a day.... I shall watch the temperature closely, they do heat up...maybe I can come up with some stilts for the summer, and then lower the light, to save on water heater cost in the winter... lol. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > I also very much want to capture that sliding action for posterity but my > fish have other ideas & only do it when my camera is stashed securely away > form the tank! > > I would recommend using only aquarium safe gravel because not only will it > be smoother & more uniform sized so they cannot get any sharp bits stuck in > their throats but also regular builder's gravel can contain any number of > different rock such as limestone that could upset the pH. > > All I use for my plants is to set them in regular clay terra-cotta pots & > planters that you would use in the garden because that is inert. Inside I > use a sandy mix called TetraPlant substrate which is quite expensive but > lasts virtually forever but you need to cover the top of it well with > marbles/pebbles or the fish will dig it all out in no time. I imagine you > can get that in Canada? > > I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical side of lighting so perhaps one > of the experts can jump in here & explain why my set up works so well with > the plants I have. My tank water depth is 19" but the two free-standing > lighting rigs are set about 24" from the gravel. They each have 2 lamps-one > being a standard white & the other a tropical pink both 39W & both 34" > long. The lamps are only on for 7 1/2 hours per day, I think any more & you > would have a serious algae problem. Not only that but the smaller the tank > you have then the more the lights will raise the temperature of the water > with the consequent drop once they are off which is going to be stressful > for the fish going up & down all the time, my tank is 100 UK gallons so it > can absorb the heat from the light better with almost no overall > temperature change during a 24 hour period. Maybe there are low light > plants that someone could suggest? all I have is regular Anacharis, > Straight [Jungle?] Vallis & a couple of different Hornworts. I have tried > many plants over the years, some really lovely ones like Pennywort & > Cabomba but my fish have destroyed everything else so the hardy few plants > I have are more by default than choice-obviously not nice tasting to > Goldfish! > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 7 August 2013 17:50, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hey John. > > I just saw the pic of your arch... that would be funny to see if you could > > tape them doing that trick, and put it on youtube. :-)>>> > > I did the same thing as you, only with a rock on each side of the wood for > > added assurance. the plants are still staying put; hopefully they put down > > roots well. They are in fluval plant substrate, but if they came up, I > > thought I could pile some of the gravel that I made a path with, at the > > base of each plant... may not look too bad... > > Your plants look good; do you use liquid or tab fertilizer? I used liquid. > > The platy I put in there to get the cycle started, looks healthy and happy, > > so that's good; I squeezed out the sponge from the 40 into the new media. > > How many hours a day would you recommend I keep the lights on? I've read > > various opinions; apparently if it's too much, you get algae. It's 26 > > watts, and the tank is only 12 inches deep. > > > > Thanks dude. > > > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I understand the tea effect is not detrimental to the fish, it just > > > doesn't look very nice to us! I also believe you can secure the wood with > > > fish friendly silicone but that seems a bit permanent if you want to > > alter > > > the décor at any time. I have a large bogwood arch in mine, it's not > > > secured with anything permanent as it is quite stable free-standing but > > for > > > added safety I have a couple of hefty clay plant pots holding it in a > > > pincer-like style at one end so it is safe from the boisterous play of > > my 4 > > > big fish. > > > > > > Incidentally, the bogwood arch is not quite tall enough for my fish to > > > pass through upright but they have all mastered the art of turning > > sideways > > > & sliding under in a very nifty manner. > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 19:21, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks John. > > > > Hmmm. They're not secured. I had read that it's a good idea to do so, > > but > > > > I risked it; whether or not that was a rookie mistake or not, time will > > > > tell. It's been almost 24 hours, and nobody has floated up yet. The > > wood > > > > had some nice crevices, so the Java fern roots are pretty secure. > > > > The wood was still leeching some when I set it up, after a week of > > water > > > > changes every 12 hours, but it looks pretty clear. I put carbon in the > > > > filter; that's supposed to help mop up the extra tannins. I certainly > > won't > > > > do that forever, and if the water gets a bit "teaish" corys are > > supposed to > > > > enjoy that type of water anyway. > > > > > > > > :-)>>> > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Al, > > > > > > > > > > That looks very nice, how are your plants secured? Is your wood still > > > > > leeching out tannins into the water? I remember when I got my > > bogwood it > > > > > took weeks of soaking it in a tub before I was able to put it in my > > tank. > > > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 August 2013 03:19, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I started planting my little 10 gallon beside the bed today. > > > > > > It's been up and running for about a week. I just bought four > > plants to > > > > > > start off with, to see if they survive me. :-)>>> > > > > > > I'll get more some time, when I can get a short, grass type plant. > > > > > > I put in a corkscrew vallisneria, java fern, a green cabomba, and a > > > > marimo > > > > > > moss ball that I'm going to cut apart and stick to the wood > > > > somewhere... > > > > > > don't know where yet. > > > > > > They all seem to be staying put so far; hopefully everyone > > survives, > > > > and > > > > > > make a nice home for the school of pygmy corys that will call it > > home > > > > in > > > > > > time. > > > > > > I put a couple pics in my folder if anyone's interested. > > > > > > > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55268	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/8/2013
Subject: Re: New goldfish

Hi Rob, I would suggest leaving the light off in the 1.5 gallon tank as Goldfish are quite happy in ambient room lighting, it's only if you have real plants that lighting becomes an issue. You are also in danger of heating the small volume of water up by several degrees only for that to fall off again during the night when the lights are off. This makes the temperature fluctuate which is stressful for the fish. That's great to hear about the 30 gallon tank, the sooner you can get it up & running the better really if you can sort out the space. The 30 gallon will also give you a break in maintenance because a 10 gallon partial water change every few days ensures a good dilution. While he is the 1.5 gallon, even with minimal feeding he will be polluting his water in a matter of hours which drives the oxygen out. Take care to set the 30 gallon on a very sturdy item of furniture or it's own stand if it has one because water is very heavy-also put a couple of sheets of bubble wrap or foam matting between the bottom of the tank & whatever it is sitting on. This will iron out any inconsistencies in the 2 flat surfaces & ensure the weight is distributed evenly. Obviously a 30 gallon tank is going to need a larger filter so I would suggest getting one that is rated for nearer 50 gallons. This is because filter recommendations are based on average stocking/waste but Goldfish are incredibly dirty fish & make a lot of waste. Make sure you have a fitted lid for this tank to prevent him jumping out. Once set up you could think about introducing another similar type of Goldfish because they thrive on company & are generally much more active & playful with friends in the tank. There are several points to bear in mind when doing this including the possible danger of introducing something nasty with the newcomer but you can quarantine the newcomer-we can cross that bridge when the time comes. You will also need to eventually upgrade your 30 gallon because these fish get huge over the years but one solution to that if a larger tank is not possible is putting them in a pond but again, something that can be dealt with when it arises. With regard to feeding, I would shy away from flakes because they are quite messy in the tank & relatively low in nutrition. Go for good quality pellet feeds, sinking or floating [both is ok & gives variety] plus frozen bloodworms & brine shrimp but all in moderation as your fish is still very young. I can't comment on the dried shrimp as I have never used it. John*<o)))<* On 8 August 2013 02:49, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thanks for all your advice. > > I have the "stock" filter that came with the 1.5gal tank. It's the 1.5 > gallon Tetra tank. It's square and has a light on it. > > We typically keep the light on during the daytime hours and shut it off at > bed time. > > We have a 30 gallon tank that I need to test to see if it will hold water, > but the bigger issue is that we really don't have the space for the 30gal > at this moment in time. We are trying to see where we can put it and then > we'd move the goldfish to the larger tank. We simply don't have room for > anything much larger than the 30gal at the moment. > > I am on active duty so I have to plan for a move every 3 years or so, but > I know that transporting fish really isn't hard if the correct steps are > taken. > > Again, thanks for all the advice. The only other thing I will ask is about > feeding. I've read on a few different sites to "mix it up" a little. > Combinations of flakes/pallet with dried shrimp and the such. > > Cheers. > > Rob > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Amber Larr <love_animals07@...> wrote: > > > > I had goldfish once. Like you, I started out with a very small tank (I > think it was 3 or 5 gallons). I had four goldfish at the time, I think. > They were fine, and I thought everything was perfect. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55269	From: Ray	Date: 8/8/2013
Subject: Re: help

You're ON Yahoo (groups); no further need to "add" you to it. As the fish in question were referred by you to be a "Jack," I'm assuming you're talking about your Jack Dempsey. Noticing you have several other Central and South American Cichlids in this tank, it's possible that your Dempsey may be intimidated as some of these other Cichlids can be aggressive. While this Dempsey is 2", you don't state how large the other Cichlids are. At 2", the Dempsey is far from being mature, so we can rule out breeding dress for the change in color. Getting back to your tank conditions, while it's understood that your pH is 7.4, we really don't know anything else except that all of them are "good," whatever that means (how "good" are they?). Whenever a hobbyist here needs advice on an issue, we need to know the results of these water parameter tests -- in numbers -- to be able to better understand the situation. If you can supply them, then perhaps we may have something more to go on. What color or shade of color(s) was this Dempsey when you first bought it at the store? What makes you think that its being darker now is not its normal coloration? Dempsey's are a dark colored fish, so perhaps it wasn't in optimum conditions at the store when you got it, and was really off-color there. How large is your tank? How large are all the rest of these fishes? What is a "Black Banded"? (A Black Banded what?) If your pH is 7.4 with all the rest of your water parameters being as "good" as you indicate, while every other fish is apparently doing fine and showing normal coloration, my feeling is that your Dempsey is showing its normal coloration now. Can you post a pic? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie W" <no1fisherman20002004@...> wrote: > > my ph is 7.4 all test comes back good and he eats fine he is about 2 inchs but as not went back to the normal color as when i got him from petco . here is all my fish ..that is in the tank Green terror, bichir, silver tipped shark,3 lg convicts, black banded s,1 lg firemouths, jack dempsey, upside down catfish, pleco, lace catfish and they all are doing fine please add me to yahoo no1fisherman20002004@... > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > > > Jamie, > > > > There are a number of stimuli which would cause the coloration of this Cichlid to deepen, some favorable and others not so favorable. As the normal background color of this fish is black, with blue spangling, this will darken when the fish modifies its coloration into breeding dress. > > > > One other influence on this fish into changing its all-over coloration happens when a darker substrate is added to its tank. Its pigmentation automatically increases when its eyes tell the brain that it's increasingly in an environment over a darker bottom and this stimulus promotes heavier amounts of dark pigmentation to develop to more closely match the bottom. This change can come as quickly as 4 to 5 days over a different bottom. > > > > This Cichlid can also darken when its environment is adverse to its liking. This includes the water that the fish is residing in, firat and foremost, and is often accompanied by a loss or decrease in appetite. Most often, the adversity is a lowering of the pH beyond what the fish is comfortable in -- a pH that's out of the fish's normal range -- even though it may be very adaptable to a moderately wide range. This can often be accompanieed by an increase in DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids), but not necessarily. > > > > I have several questions I need to ask you, to help in rectifying this situation. How often do you change water and how much do you change at each time? What is your pH level? What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Is this fish eating normally or has it lost at least some appetite? Has its behavior changed to being more reclusive? > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jamie W" <no1fisherman20002004@> wrote: > > > > > > my friend said to come here .. i have cichlids and my jack as went from normal looking to all most to a solid black can anyone help me am on yahoo msg. 95 % of the time any help would be grateful > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55270	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Hi Everyone, My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier today feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen & I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the tank behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he was joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all the food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I didn't have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my big clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing in the gravel itself. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55271	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

bummer the thing didn't go up as a link on your message... and cutting and pasting it into the address bar didn't work...maybe spelt wrong? --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier today > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen & > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the tank > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he was > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all the > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I didn't > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my big > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing in > the gravel itself. > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55272	From: Amber	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

The link worked just fine for me. Amber On 8/10/2013 1:02 PM, Al Keep wrote: > > bummer the thing didn't go up as a link on your message... and cutting > and pasting it into the address bar didn't work...maybe spelt wrong? > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>, SIMMONDS JOHN > <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > today > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would > happen & > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in > the tank > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when > he was > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed > all the > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > didn't > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of > my big > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are > growing in > > the gravel itself. > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55273	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/10/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Al, it worked fine for me too as I tested it before I posted. Do you receive group messages in your inbox as well as through the Yahoo! site? If so then try your email inbox version & see if that is any good. John*<o)))<* On 10 August 2013 22:02, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > bummer the thing didn't go up as a link on your message... and cutting and > pasting it into the address bar didn't work...maybe spelt wrong? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > today > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen > & > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > tank > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he > was > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all > the > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > didn't > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my > big > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing > in > > the gravel itself. > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55274	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I have lots... :-(>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier today > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen & > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the tank > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he was > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all the > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I didn't > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my big > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing in > the gravel itself. > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55275	From: harry perry	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

WE can put links to videos in the group. It worked for me. Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch   guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I have lots... :-(>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier today > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen & > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the tank > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he was > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all the > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I didn't > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my big > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing in > the gravel itself. > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55276	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Try it again Al, here is the link in full: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html & here it is as a TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/kqbonez in case there was a glitch in the long link. John*<o)))<* On 11 August 2013 22:08, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I > don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at > photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I > have lots... :-(>>> > Al. > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > today > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen > & > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > tank > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he > was > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all > the > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > didn't > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my > big > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing > in > > the gravel itself. > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55277	From: Jhanea	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: New tank

I brought a 3 gallon for my 2nd betta who is new.... Jhanea Cody SD & Ava Http://Myfurkidz.webs.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55278	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/11/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

It worked for me although I didn't get the original email. Looks good John and it gave me a giggle how Buttercup just did squeeze herself underneath it. lol BTW hows the pond readings doing? Did the nitrite spike ever work itself down? Tatts From: Al Keep Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I have lots... :-(>>> Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier today > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen & > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the tank > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he was > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all the > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I didn't > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my big > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing in > the gravel itself. > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > John*<o)))<* > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55279	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Hi Tatts, I better not let Buttercup see your email or he will be offended calling him a she! I suppose it is rather a feminine name but when I bought him as a Lemon Comet he was completely yellow so I named him appropriately. All my fish were named according to their appearance at the time although several have altered in the ensuing years. Apricot, my big male who is in the background of the video also has a seemingly strange name although he was a pale orange but turned all silver around 5/6 years ago. Marmalade my other male is the one swimming across the foreground & he has kept his colouring exactly as he was 9 years ago as a baby so his name is still plausible. My other fish not seen in the video is a female Common Goldfish & I called her Tiny for obvious reasons although now she is second only to Apricot in size & he only wins on finnage! John*<o)))<* On 12 August 2013 00:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > ** > > > It worked for me although I didn't get the original email. > Looks good John and it gave me a giggle how Buttercup just did squeeze > herself underneath it. lol > BTW hows the pond readings doing? Did the nitrite spike ever work itself > down? > Tatts > > From: Al Keep > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch > > guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I > don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at > photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I > have lots... :-(>>> > Al. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > today > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen > & > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > tank > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he > was > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all > the > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > didn't > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my > big > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing > in > > the gravel itself. > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55280	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Oh cute... there it is...when I cut and pasted the short one into my address bar it worked... but still neither one come up as a link in the message... it's typed out but it's not a link.... beats me; I'm in other yahoo groups for other hobbies, and links come up ok. and yes harry, I know links can be put up, but you said videos could... and they cannot, unless I'm missing something.. I see photos, files, links, ect... no videos. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Tatts, > > I better not let Buttercup see your email or he will be offended calling > him a she! I suppose it is rather a feminine name but when I bought him as > a Lemon Comet he was completely yellow so I named him appropriately. All my > fish were named according to their appearance at the time although several > have altered in the ensuing years. Apricot, my big male who is in the > background of the video also has a seemingly strange name although he was a > pale orange but turned all silver around 5/6 years ago. Marmalade my other > male is the one swimming across the foreground & he has kept his colouring > exactly as he was 9 years ago as a baby so his name is still plausible. My > other fish not seen in the video is a female Common Goldfish & I called her > Tiny for obvious reasons although now she is second only to Apricot in size > & he only wins on finnage! > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 12 August 2013 00:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > It worked for me although I didn't get the original email. > > Looks good John and it gave me a giggle how Buttercup just did squeeze > > herself underneath it. lol > > BTW hows the pond readings doing? Did the nitrite spike ever work itself > > down? > > Tatts > > > > From: Al Keep > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch > > > > guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I > > don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at > > photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I > > have lots... :-(>>> > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > > today > > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen > > & > > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > > tank > > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he > > was > > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all > > the > > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > > didn't > > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my > > big > > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing > > in > > > the gravel itself. > > > > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55281	From: harry perry	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

I thought I said links to videos. I could be wrong. Harry ________________________________ From: Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 3:04 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch   Oh cute... there it is...when I cut and pasted the short one into my address bar it worked... but still neither one come up as a link in the message... it's typed out but it's not a link.... beats me; I'm in other yahoo groups for other hobbies, and links come up ok. and yes harry, I know links can be put up, but you said videos could... and they cannot, unless I'm missing something.. I see photos, files, links, ect... no videos. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Tatts, > > I better not let Buttercup see your email or he will be offended calling > him a she! I suppose it is rather a feminine name but when I bought him as > a Lemon Comet he was completely yellow so I named him appropriately. All my > fish were named according to their appearance at the time although several > have altered in the ensuing years. Apricot, my big male who is in the > background of the video also has a seemingly strange name although he was a > pale orange but turned all silver around 5/6 years ago. Marmalade my other > male is the one swimming across the foreground & he has kept his colouring > exactly as he was 9 years ago as a baby so his name is still plausible. My > other fish not seen in the video is a female Common Goldfish & I called her > Tiny for obvious reasons although now she is second only to Apricot in size > & he only wins on finnage! > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 12 August 2013 00:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > It worked for me although I didn't get the original email. > > Looks good John and it gave me a giggle how Buttercup just did squeeze > > herself underneath it. lol > > BTW hows the pond readings doing? Did the nitrite spike ever work itself > > down? > > Tatts > > > > From: Al Keep > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch > > > > guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your message, I > > don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search at > > photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... I > > have lots... :-(>>> > > Al. > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > > today > > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would happen > > & > > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > > tank > > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when he > > was > > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to greet > > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed all > > the > > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > > didn't > > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of my > > big > > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are growing > > in > > > the gravel itself. > > > > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55282	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/12/2013
Subject: Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch

Hi Al, At least you've seen my fish performing their tricks now. The lack of a clickable link could be a Transatlantic glitch-I sometimes get various punctuation inserted where an apostrophe should be & I think that only occurs in messages originating from the Americas. Or . . could it simply be your anti-virus program being too vigilant? John*<o)))<* On 12 August 2013 20:04, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Oh cute... there it is...when I cut and pasted the short one into my > address bar it worked... but still neither one come up as a link in the > message... it's typed out but it's not a link.... beats me; I'm in other > yahoo groups for other hobbies, and links come up ok. > and yes harry, I know links can be put up, but you said videos could... > and they cannot, unless I'm missing something.. I see photos, files, links, > ect... no videos. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Tatts, > > > > I better not let Buttercup see your email or he will be offended calling > > him a she! I suppose it is rather a feminine name but when I bought him > as > > a Lemon Comet he was completely yellow so I named him appropriately. All > my > > fish were named according to their appearance at the time although > several > > have altered in the ensuing years. Apricot, my big male who is in the > > background of the video also has a seemingly strange name although he > was a > > pale orange but turned all silver around 5/6 years ago. Marmalade my > other > > male is the one swimming across the foreground & he has kept his > colouring > > exactly as he was 9 years ago as a baby so his name is still plausible. > My > > other fish not seen in the video is a female Common Goldfish & I called > her > > Tiny for obvious reasons although now she is second only to Apricot in > size > > & he only wins on finnage! > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 12 August 2013 00:24, tattsmc <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > It worked for me although I didn't get the original email. > > > Looks good John and it gave me a giggle how Buttercup just did squeeze > > > herself underneath it. lol > > > BTW hows the pond readings doing? Did the nitrite spike ever work > itself > > > down? > > > Tatts > > > > > > From: Al Keep > > > Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:08 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Swimming Under Bogwood Arch > > > > > > guess i'm not meant to see it. it didn't come as a link in your > message, I > > > don't get it in my email, pasting it into my address bar or the search > at > > > photobucket didn't work.... too bad we cant put videos in the group... > I > > > have lots... :-(>>> > > > Al. > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > My fish must have read Al's email the other day regarding my haing no > > > > footage of them swimming under the bogwood arch, I shot this earlier > > > today > > > > feturing all 3 of my Comets on the offchance that something would > happen > > > & > > > > I wasn't to be dissapointed. I'd just put some sinking pellets in the > > > tank > > > > behind the bogwood arch & Apricot was busying himself with them when > he > > > was > > > > joined by Buttercup who then proceeded to swim under the arch to > greet > > > > Marmalade at the front of the tank. Finally Marmalade having missed > all > > > the > > > > food at this end slinks away to search at the opposite end. > > > > > > > > Apologies for the annoying dead Vallis leaf in the foreground but I > > > didn't > > > > have time to set the stage. On the far left you can just see one of > my > > > big > > > > clay Vallis planters, some of which have sprouted runners & are > growing > > > in > > > > the gravel itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mrbushy/media/ButtercupSwimsUnderArch_zps6e11ada2.mp4.html > > > > > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55283	From: kristybeddow	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: salt water tank -- sump pump

we have a 55 gallon saltwater tank...I did a water change today..got it all set back up and now the filter that flows down to the sump pump is making a gurgling knows..how do I fix it. we are new to saltwater tank.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55284	From: Amber	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump

There might be air bubbles trapped inside... Try re-priming it maybe? Amber -----Original Message----- From: "kristybeddow" <kristybeddow@...> Sent: ‎8/‎13/‎2013 3:58 PM To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [AquaticLife] salt water tank -- sump pump we have a 55 gallon saltwater tank...I did a water change today..got it all set back up and now the filter that flows down to the sump pump is making a gurgling knows..how do I fix it. we are new to saltwater tank. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55285	From: kristybeddow	Date: 8/13/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump

Tried that it didn't work Sent from my iPhone On Aug 13, 2013, at 9:17 PM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: > There might be air bubbles trapped inside... Try re-priming it maybe? > > Amber > > -----Original Message----- > From: "kristybeddow" <kristybeddow@...> > Sent: ‎8/‎13/‎2013 3:58 PM > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] salt water tank -- sump pump > > we have a 55 gallon saltwater tank...I did a water change today..got it all set back up and now the filter that flows down to the sump pump is making a gurgling knows..how do I fix it. > > we are new to saltwater tank. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55286	From: Robert	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Start-up questions

I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your experiences are. The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as well. Thanks again. Rob

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55287	From: harry perry	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

I Rob,     I use a whisper in all my tanks (5) I've never had any problems with them. I find them to be completely quiet. I always over filter I.E. bigger filter than needed. Also I don't use air stones, never have for over 45 years. The surface agitation caused by the HOB filters is enough. Harry ________________________________ From: Robert <rpmazur@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 6:07 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Start-up questions   I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your experiences are. The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as well. Thanks again. Rob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55288	From: Ray	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

Rob, I've used Tetra Whisper HOB (Hang-On-Back) filters on a number of tanks and found them to be very reliable and quiet. For even better quality though, many experienced hobbyists prefer Hagen AquaClear filters (HOB's), which hold an excellent rating. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. > > Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your experiences are. > > The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as well. > > Thanks again. > > Rob >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55289	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/14/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

Hi Robert, What size is your tank & what type[s] of fish are you planning on keeping? I have only had experience of a few filter types & these are my findings. Fluval 2 & 3 are both excellent internal filters that are easy to maintain & do a wonderful job although I always supplemented the foam pads by setting a strip of white polyester foam in between to do the fine 'water polishing' & these can be renewed every filter clean. As for external canisters, the Eheim 2026 [& same thing but slightly larger2028] is excellent although the priming plunger is a bit of a gimmick & is just one more thing to potentially go wrong but they are very quiet & trouble-free machines that can be filled with many types of media-I've used both ceramic hoops & nylon pan scrubbers. I am still using one on a UV sub system in my tank that I had back in 2006 when my fish were in a 40 gallon & that has ran flawlessly since then. The blue foam pad on the bottom basket that Eheim 'suggest' you replace periodically is still going strong as are the nylon pan scrubbers that have been in both baskets since 2007. Air pumps seem to be invariably noisy, at least none I have ever known have been silent. Every manufacturer will tell you that their product is the quietest. In my limited experience the larger the machine the quieter it is pro-rata. I now use a small Superfish pond pump to run the 4 ball airstones on my tank, in the past I have used both double & single outlet air pumps from several manufacturers-the singles always seem to be noisy & generally if you turn them upside down & set them on a foam pad or piece of bubble wrap they are noticeably quieter. John*<o)))<* On 14 August 2013 23:07, Robert <rpmazur@...> wrote: > ** > > > I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or > so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. > > Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any > recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, > Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews > stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your > experiences are. > > The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of > you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as > well. > > Thanks again. > > Rob > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55290	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: salt water tank -- sump pump

Is this a home built sump or store bought system? Can you post pictures of the set up? It's hard to troubleshoot something like this if I can't see what you've got. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kristybeddow" <kristybeddow@...> wrote: > > we have a 55 gallon saltwater tank...I did a water change today..got it all set back up and now the filter that flows down to the sump pump is making a gurgling knows..how do I fix it. > > we are new to saltwater tank. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55291	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

I used to be a fan of the Whisper filters until I started using the Aqueon. Since then I have replaced all of my HOB's and internals with Aqueon. The filter you decide to work with should also depend on the fish you're keeping. As Ray mentioned, the AquaClear filters are good, but they have a stronger flow rate than something like the Whisper or Aqueon filters and not all fish can handle that much heavy circulation. The same applies to the air stone... some fish need higher circulation and more oxygen content than others. If you were to give us an idea of what you want to put into the tank that would help a lot. Are you planning a planted tank? If so, you won't want heavy circulation/strong current in a planted tank or it may damage sensitive plants. Something else to consider with the filter you choose is how easy will it be to get replacement parts if/when you need them, such as impellers? There are a lot of good filters on the market today, it just depends on what your specific environment and animals will need. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. > > Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your experiences are. > > The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as well. > > Thanks again. > > Rob >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55292	From: joe t	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Scale protrusion

Hi Gang: I was approached the other day by a young person keeping fish. He had a guppy with scale protrusion and asked my advise on what he could do for it. Well, going back a ways we thought this was caused by a dirty tank and an injury or sudden cold chill. It was/is contagious and we used to get the fish out of the tank quickly. There was/is two kinds: one very contagious, which I understood rarely occurred in a tank and the other was not too contagious to healthy fish. But at the time, and maybe even now, you could not take a chance of which it was. There was no cure, so the fish had to be got rid of. Guys like Ray would probably put it under a microscope and know which it was. But I am not into that stuff. Like I said, that was way back and I haven't heard about this for a real long time. Never gave it much thought. Is anyone aware of if there been any progress in possibly treating this? joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55293	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

Agreed. Aquaclear HOB's are reliable workhorse filters. They are easy to mix and match various media; but I've only found my 50 to be quiet; the 20 (mini) isn't the quietest thing; luck of the draw probably though, no manufacturer is perfect. I would recommend them. Al. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Rob, > > I've used Tetra Whisper HOB (Hang-On-Back) filters on a number of tanks and found them to be very reliable and quiet. For even better quality though, many experienced hobbyists prefer Hagen AquaClear filters (HOB's), which hold an excellent rating. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@> wrote: > > > > I acquired a used tank that I plan on "stress" testing in the next day or so to see if it will hold water and had a few other questions. > > > > Things that I will need to get include a filter and air pump. Any recommendations on either of those? I was looking at the Tetra Whisper EX, Tetra Whisper Internal and the Aqueon Quiet Flow. I've read some reviews stating that Whisper EX tends to be noisy. I'm wondering what your experiences are. > > > > The same holds true for the air pumps and I am also wondering if any of you use an air stone (or some other form of air bubbler) in the tank as well. > > > > Thanks again. > > > > Rob > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55294	From: Ray	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Scale protrusion

Hi Joe, I'll try to address this in as understandable manner as I can, but there's no definitive answer to this persistent and fairly common malady as far as effecting a cure. For starters, unless this is the very latest news on this subject, I've never heard of there being two kinds of Dropsy (scale protrusion), although perhaps you mean that one type is caused by disease pathogens and the other by internal physical problems. It's not so much that it's contagious when caused by a pathogen, but the very conditions causing this disease are affecting all fish in the tank at this time, rendering them all susceptible to it. And of course, the worse the conditions are, the more susceptible all the fish will be to this disease. There are many disease organisms residing in established, old (aged), freshwater aquaria which receive their regular weekly PWC as part of their maintenance, and a good number of organisms found even in fairly new aquaria. Still, PWC's by themselves do not ensure a stress-free environment. Many of the pathogens that cause Dropsy and that cause many other fish diseases just don't appear spontaneously, out of nowhere, but are pervasive even in the best maintained water columns. Fortunately, in well maintained aquariums, this relatively contaminent-free environment causes little stress on the fishes' immune systems, enabling them to successfully combat these pathogens preventing them from getting a foothold on or in the fish. When conditions worsen, which can still happen despite regular PWC's, if the rest of the maintenance procedures aren't properly kept up with, not only does this compromise the fishes' immune system, but in some cases -- such as with the various anaerobic bacteria that will cause Dropsy -- such otherwise lack of maintenance will promote the ideal conditions for these pathogens if the DOS (Dissolved Organic Solids) are permitted to build up in the substrate, ready to attack the fishes in numbers whenever adverse water parameters build up to being a stressor factor. While pathogens is just one one the causes of Dropsy in fishes, there is a multiple of different pathogens which cause Dropsy, most being bacterial and some being viral. If a certain case of Dropsy is caused by a virus, there is no cure for it. This does not say that there's necessarily a "cure" for a bacterial form of Dropsy but this all depends largely on when the symptoms were first noticed and how fast the medications where administered. Then too, much of this "cure" also depends on the specific bacteria that's causing the Dropsy -- although other factors -- as included below -- have lots to do with it. The two genera of bacteria causing Dropsy are Pseudomonas and Aeromonas; of these, Pseudomonas may involve P. punctata, p. fluorescens or P. granulata, etc. Aeromonas may involve A. liquefasciens, A. hydrophila or A. sobria, etc., just to name a few, although the most likely ones. There is yet a similar disease that causes the scales to stand out on end, called "Vibriosis," which is most often associated with brackish water fishes, but can still affect freshwater fishes when the bacteria, Vibrio anguillarum is present. So just by this, you can see you're up against different causes, having to expect different results from a treatment. Aeromonas and Vibrio are anaerobic bacteria - they don't require oxygen. Pseudomonas is said to be either aerobic or anaerobic, but does extremely well in anerobic conditions, but then, that's what facultative bacteria do. Just like organic-waste-consuming heterotophic facultative anaerobes (Pseudomonas butanovora, etc.) that rot the food deep in the substrate in the absence of oxygen (and produce rotten-egg - smelly hydrogen and methane), these facultative anaerobes too will find these conditions much to their liking, albeit not being able to manufacture its food from the DOS as their heterotoph relatives do. To avoid at least most of the prevalent forms of Dropsy, it would be best to minimize these anaerobic conditions with regular deep-vacuuming of the substrate. Most of the times I've encountered Dropsy problems on this Group, they were accompanied by waste-laden (including excess fish food) substrate; I extremely doubt this is a coincidence. There are medications that can be given for bacteria-caused Dropsy, but as I said, they're not necessarily a cure. The condition that causes Dropsy is an accumulation of fluids in the body, already caused by the deterioration of the liver and/or the kidneys by these bacteria. What you're seeing when observing the scales standing out is not the disease, but the manifestation of this disease which has advanced to this stage of body fluid retention. If it's caught early, and if not too much damage has been done to the internal organs, then perhaps it can be reversed -- but it's not the usual outcome, often because it's rarely detected early enough. Still, if there's the chance that it's still in its early stage, the temperature should be raised to 90 o f, and one of the (few) readily-absorbed (internally) Broad-Spectrum, Gram-Negative antibiotics -- such as Kanamycin or Naladixic Acid -- should be administered. Jungle Lab's Parasite Clear, in combination with one of these meds for 14 days is said to often help -- perhaps if there's a protozoan involved in association with the bacteria, but it may help as just a bacticide. Still, not a sure cure, but can hold promise when this disease is caught early -- and if not too much internal damage has already been done. Other causes of Dropsy, although not usually, can be a tumor, intestinal worms, being egg-bound or being constipated, this last cause having the fish eat green peas and/or adding Epsom salt to the water, starting at one teaspoon per 5 gallons to clear the digestive tract, just as one would do in a normal case of a blockage. Just things to try, but don't expect miracles. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "joe t" <jett07002@...> wrote: > > > Hi Gang: > > I was approached the other day by a young person keeping fish. He had a guppy with scale protrusion and asked my advise on what he could do for it. > > Well, going back a ways we thought this was caused by a dirty tank and an injury or sudden cold chill. It was/is contagious and we used to get the fish out of the tank quickly. There was/is two kinds: one very contagious, which I understood rarely occurred in a tank and the other was not too contagious to healthy fish. But at the time, and maybe even now, you could not take a chance of which it was. There was no cure, so the fish had to be got rid of. Guys like Ray would probably put it under a microscope and know which it was. But I am not into that stuff. > > Like I said, that was way back and I haven't heard about this for a real long time. Never gave it much thought. > > Is anyone aware of if there been any progress in possibly treating this? > > joe t >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55295	From: Robert	Date: 8/15/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

Thanks for all the suggestions. Some additional info: it's a 30gal tank (and holding water quite well) and we are looking for freshwater tropical fish, tetras, guppies and the such. Honestly, we haven't researched all the compatible types we are interested in yet I've been researching in stages if that makes sense. Thanks again Rob

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55296	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/16/2013
Subject: Re: Start-up questions

Rob, that new information does help a bit, thank you. My opinion, aquaclear and fancy guppies aren't a great mix. The water flow is quite strong with that particular filter and fancy guppies, especially the males, aren't the strongest swimmers because of their long delicate fins. I would lean towards either Aqueon or Whisper for something like that. I would also be sure to put some type of control valve on the airline if you decide to run a pump/air stone, too, so you have the ability to turn down the force of the current if need be. Delicate fish pushed around in the current causes injury and stress. A few other tips for you: If you're going to work with fancy guppies be sure your tetras have a school of 5 or more for each species to help keep fin nipping to a minimum and avoid the more aggressive tetras such as serpae, buenos aires, blue, and congo tetras. These don't mix well with fancy guppies or other small, extremely peaceful fishes. Be sure not to pair the guppies male/female. If you intend to allow breeding you'll want at least 2 - 3 females for each male, but do your homework on their breeding habits and make sure you have an outlet for the fry before you bring even a single female home. Guppies are extremely prolific and can easily overstock a 30 gallon tank quickly. Each female is capable of 30+ fry every 30 days if she is exposed to a male, and each female can continue to have fry for up to 3 months without a male present (if she's been exposed to one for even 24 hrs). That adds up quickly and relying on tank mates to eat all of the fry each time seldom works out because most fish that will eat that number of fry quickly tend to be too aggressive to keep with the adult guppies to begin with. This applies to all live bearing fishes (mollys, swordtails, platys, halfbeaks, etc.) Good luck to you and please, let us know what you end up with. New tanks are always fun and exciting, but even more so when you can share pictures and info with other fish enthusiasts. :-) Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rpmazur@...> wrote: > > Thanks for all the suggestions. Some additional info: it's a 30gal tank (and holding water quite well) and we are looking for freshwater tropical fish, tetras, guppies and the such. Honestly, we haven't researched all the compatible types we are interested in yet I've been researching in stages if that makes sense. > > Thanks again > > Rob >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55297	From: judymoon1945	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Introduction

I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans have to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a bigger home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55298	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hi Judy, Welcome to the group. John*<o)))<* On 17 August 2013 21:53, judymoon1945 <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > ** > > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 > cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get > back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but > especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans > have to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a > bigger home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55299	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Hi Judy, Welcome to the group. Your name looks familiar, as does your collection of animals. Are you also on other fish Groups I moderate? Could be wrong but not very many people have that many cats and dogs. Best of experiences here. Ray -- moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "judymoon1945" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans have to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a bigger home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55300	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Thank you John. I don't have any fish yet, because I am planning to move in a few more months. Trying to find a bigger house on a slightly larger lot. Gotta finish the remodel on this house so it will sell well. Judy Moon, a praying child of God -----Original Message----- From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SIMMONDS JOHN Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:41 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Introduction Hi Judy, Welcome to the group. John*<o)))<* On 17 August 2013 21:53, judymoon1945 <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > ** > > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 > cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to > get back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, > but especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these > plans have to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved > into a bigger home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6584 - Release Date: 08/16/13

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55301	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Ray, I’m not on any other fish groups, but cats, dogs, birds, yes. I think I was on this group about 2 yrs ago before I moved up here. Judy Moon, a praying child of God From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:51 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Hi Judy, Welcome to the group. Your name looks familiar, as does your collection of animals. Are you also on other fish Groups I moderate? Could be wrong but not very many people have that many cats and dogs. Best of experiences here. Ray -- moderator --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "judymoon1945" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans have to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a bigger home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6584 - Release Date: 08/16/13 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55302	From: Ray	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Okay, then THAT'S why your name's so familiar. Welcome back -- hope you stay longer this time < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > Ray, I'm not on any other fish groups, but cats, dogs, birds, yes. I think > I was on this group about 2 yrs ago before I moved up here. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction > > > Hi Judy, > > Welcome to the group. Your name looks familiar, as does your collection of > animals. Are you also on other fish Groups I moderate? Could be wrong but > not very many people have that many cats and dogs. > Best of experiences here. > > Ray -- moderator > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "judymoon1945" <judymoon1945@> wrote: > > > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 > cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get > back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but > especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans have > to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a bigger > home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6584 - Release Date: 08/16/13 > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55303	From: Judy Moon	Date: 8/17/2013
Subject: Re: Introduction

Ray, I’m going to try to. Judy Moon, a praying child of God From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:20 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction Okay, then THAT'S why your name's so familiar. Welcome back -- hope you stay longer this time < g >. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , "Judy Moon" <judymoon1945@...> wrote: > > Ray, I'm not on any other fish groups, but cats, dogs, birds, yes. I think > I was on this group about 2 yrs ago before I moved up here. > > Judy Moon, a praying child of God > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 4:51 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Introduction > > > Hi Judy, > > Welcome to the group. Your name looks familiar, as does your collection of > animals. Are you also on other fish Groups I moderate? Could be wrong but > not very many people have that many cats and dogs. > Best of experiences here. > > Ray -- moderator > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> , > "judymoon1945" <judymoon1945@> wrote: > > > > I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Judy and my family of 8 > cats, 7 dogs and a Senegal Parrot keeps me busy and happy. I want to get > back into having a couple of aquariums. I love all kinds of fish, but > especially bettas. I also plan to have some more birds. All these plans have > to wait until I finish remodeling this house and get moved into a bigger > home. Right now I live in Wallace Idaho. > > > > _____ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6584 - Release Date: 08/16/13 > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55304	From: Mary	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Question about lighting

Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. Thank you Mary

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55305	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi Mary, Welcome to the group. Getting the lighting right for a particular plant & tank size can indeed be a nightmare & I won't attempt to advise you about such matters as it is not my subject but I'm sure you will get some excellent guidance shortly! What I would say is that the equivalent T8 & T5 bulbs should produce the same luminosity but the slimmer T5 will make less heat because they are more efficient. John*<o)))<* On 18 August 2013 21:10, Mary <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, > silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused > trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read > it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I > bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good > for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought > a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect > but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 > fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will > I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I > dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to > buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than > guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55306	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/18/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi, and thank you. I know I should get the t5 for sure now. Hopefully I will find out the rest soon. Nice to meet you:) Mary -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 8/18/2013 4:48:42 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Question about lighting Hi Mary, Welcome to the group. Getting the lighting right for a particular plant & tank size can indeed be a nightmare & I won't attempt to advise you about such matters as it is not my subject but I'm sure you will get some excellent guidance shortly! What I would say is that the equivalent T8 & T5 bulbs should produce the same luminosity but the slimmer T5 will make less heat because they are more efficient. John*<o)))<* On 18 August 2013 21:10, Mary <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, > silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused > trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read > it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I > bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good > for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought > a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect > but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 > fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will > I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I > dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to > buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than > guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55307	From: Patrick	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi Mary, Welcome to the group... --- "Mary" wrote: > I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. So the first problem I see is that you generally do not want to mix goldfish (cool water fish) with tropical fish. Most goldfish get much too large for a small tank. And if your goldfish are one of the fancy varieties that generally are not the best swimmers, they will find it very hard to compete with faster fish for food. And most cichlids are likely to nip at and harass slow moving goldfish. What kind of ciclids are they? > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so > confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per > gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want > to plant for my guppies. Most Silver Dollar fish also get rather large and can be rather skitterish. A 29 gallon is a higher tank so not much longer than 30 inches I think. Versus a 30 gallon which is shorter but about a half foot longer. At any rate, you may find that your Silver Dollars crashing into the sides of the tank when startled. They really do better in longer tanks and larger tanks in general. Depending on what type of Cichlids you have, the same might be true. > I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read > they were good for beginners. With the exception of maybe the java moss, the other two will be excellent snacks for the silver dollars and perhaps the goldfish. In a nutshell, planted tanks and silver dollars don't usually go well as Silver Dollars are the lawn mowers of the fish world. When I have had Silver Dollars, about the only think that would work was Java Ferns and Java Moss. And even then the Java Ferns never looks great because of the Silver Dollars eating the better (new growth) leaves and leaving the old tough ratty ones. Sorry to be such a downer, but it sounds like you may have a problem mix of fish. Both for getting along together and possibly for the size tank you have. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about your lighting and instead rethink your occupants. If you decided to stick with the silver dollars, then my advice would be to leave the lighting as it is and go with Java Ferns or fake plants. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55308	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi, Mary - my tanks are heavily planted and I use Coralife T5 HO Quads and Duals. The plants you mentioned have low light requirements but I don't think would thrive with a T8 fixture. All plants also depend on substrate, fertilizer, etc.... The following link gives good information for a beginner: http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Basics-to-starting-a-Planted-Tank/4/ You can see pics of my tanks in this group's Photo section under "Clare's Tanks 2013". Good luck and most of all have fun - don't let it make you too crazy :-) Your guppies will appreciate anything you do to better their environment. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55309	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Just a thought Mary, you don't have all those types of fish in the same tank do you? John*<o)))<* On 19 August 2013 15:05, cobra427lady <clare@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi, Mary - my tanks are heavily planted and I use Coralife T5 HO Quads and > Duals. The plants you mentioned have low light requirements but I don't > think would thrive with a T8 fixture. All plants also depend on substrate, > fertilizer, etc.... > > The following link gives good information for a beginner: > http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Basics-to-starting-a-Planted-Tank/4/ > > You can see pics of my tanks in this group's Photo section under "Clare's > Tanks 2013". > > Good luck and most of all have fun - don't let it make you too crazy :-) > Your guppies will appreciate anything you do to better their environment. > > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have > cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > > > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused > trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read > it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I > bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good > for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought > a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect > but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 > fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will > I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I > dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to > buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than > guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > > > Thank you > > Mary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55310	From: Ray	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi Mary, Welcome to the group: I see you're already getting advise and input. Enjoy your stay . . . and I hope it's a long one. All of the advise by others that I've read so far is well meaning, even if some may appear to be critical (it's "constructive" criticism). In all fairness to others, a lot of your remarks are generalizations, not being very specific, and even I would ask you to clarify some of them. For example, what type of Cichlids do you have? For that matter, what kind of Silver Dollars do you have? As you only mention having A 29 gallon tank, I have to assume that this is your only tank and that your goldfish resides in this tank along with the other fishes you mention. Since you happened to join here, and since you outlined some of what you're doing in this hobby, we seem to be obliged to advise you when we see something that we know is wrong -- not to jump all over you for it -- but to advise you of what's properly done (even though you haven't asked for it -- LOL). Actually, just as John is beginning to question, and just as Patrick states, because goldfish have different requirements (they're cold water fish), they really do not belong in a tropical fish tank with higher temperatures, and you don't want to lower the temoperature too much to accomodate them as then the tropicals will get sick. They really belong in their own tank, and a much larger one at that since they're pond fish, which can grow to between 12" and 14". We're telling you this only to help to succeed, before you start having problems which you never suspected. Still need to know what kind of Cichlids you have, as many can get quite large -- more than large enough to eat your guppies. If they're Dwarf Cichlids though, you wouldn't have that problem, but may encounter your guppies suddenly becoming beaten up when these Cichlids reach a stage at which they'll start breeding. You may not necessarily have the best combination of tropical fishes in this tank, but your clarification of them would explain this to us better, to be able to better advise you. There are many species of Silver Dollars, some which would eventually get too large for your tank -- and yes, they do enjoy plants as their salad bar < g >. I see you're opting for the T-5 lighting. They are quite economical, but you would do just as fine with these plants if you used T-8's. You do need stronger lighting though, as 17 Watts is not enough for your 29 gallon (18 3/4" high) tank. A twin-tube reflector would be much better. As for the "K"-type number, yes, you want to stay within about 6000K -- 6500K for best plant growth. This has nothing to do with the brightness but is the Kelvin "temperature" of the lighting it produces, and in this case "temperature" has nothing to do with heat: it's the color of the white light that's being produced (it's slightly "warmer" [redder} instead of bluer). Do not get the 10000K lighting though. This is good for illuminating marine tanks but is not the best for growing plants. To give you some idea as to how much light you need for these low-light plants, I have Java Moss flourishing in tanks at almost floor level with twin T-12 lights suspended from the 6 1/2' ceiling. This plant doesn't need a lot of light to thrive. Likewise for the Water Wisteria. The Water Sprite needs more than what I'm describing for what I'm using, but it surely doesn't need T-5's, which seem to be very expensive from what I'm seeing lately in the catalogs. As the Java Moss continues to grow though, I've found it best to turn the clump over periodically, to give all of it equal lighting over time. If it sit's in one place, the bottom of these clumps can eventually start disintegrating from the light being blocked by the top-most growth. Best of luck, and feel free to ask additional questions you may have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55311	From: tkedsall721	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?

I just bought a Gar from a fish store a couple weeks ago. He's healthy, eating great, about 5" long....but his fins are turning pink. Any clues as to why? I asked one of the girls at a different pet store I frequent, and she was confused. Told me as long as he's healthy and looks fine (other than the color) not to worry. He's either a Florida Gar, a Spotted Gar or an Asian Spotted Gar. I don't know if those are all the same thing, or different variations. I'm just curious as to the color change. I love pink, so I think its great. Oh, he eats live Ghost Shrimp and live Guppies, had a few live Rosey Reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies).

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55312	From: Mary	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re question about lighting

Hi Everyone Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the more I find out I dont know. Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the same tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We have 7 goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so they wont be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by themselves. I dont know what kind they are. When I bought them they were real small and the sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had them a couple of years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were differant ones. No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one, bright yellow, blue, white, striped. The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon that has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. He is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit growing I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he sees me then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a couple of teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like I was told to feed him. All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the water. I try to do weekly water changes. Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked the way they looked. Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to learn. By reading and asking questions. Mary

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55313	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi, I looked at your tanks they are beautiful. I would like to have one like that eventually. I bought Flora Max substrate by Carib sea. I don't know if its good or not. Its what my store had and the package sounded good Thank your for the advice . Mary -------Original Message------- From: cobra427lady Date: 8/19/2013 10:22:09 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about lighting Hi, Mary - my tanks are heavily planted and I use Coralife T5 HO Quads and Duals. The plants you mentioned have low light requirements but I don't think would thrive with a T8 fixture. All plants also depend on substrate, fertilizer, etc.... The following link gives good information for a beginner: http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Basics-to-starting-a-Planted-Tank/4/ You can see pics of my tanks in this group's Photo section under "Clare's Tanks 2013". Good luck and most of all have fun - don't let it make you too crazy :-) Your guppies will appreciate anything you do to better their environment. Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55314	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

No, I sent another email explaining what I have. Sorry about that confusion. Thank You Mary -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 8/19/2013 10:58:16 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about lighting Just a thought Mary, you don't have all those types of fish in the same tank do you? John*<o)))<* On 19 August 2013 15:05, cobra427lady <clare@clarescreaturecomforts com>wrote: > ** > > > Hi, Mary - my tanks are heavily planted and I use Coralife T5 HO Quads and > Duals. The plants you mentioned have low light requirements but I don't > think would thrive with a T8 fixture. All plants also depend on substrate, > fertilizer, etc.... > > The following link gives good information for a beginner: > http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Basics-to-starting-a-Planted-Tank/4/ > > You can see pics of my tanks in this group's Photo section under "Clare's > Tanks 2013". > > Good luck and most of all have fun - don't let it make you too crazy :-) > Your guppies will appreciate anything you do to better their environment. > > Cheers, > Clare > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have > cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > > > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused > trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read > it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I > bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good > for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought > a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect > but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 > fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will > I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I > dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to > buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than > guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > > > Thank you > > Mary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55315	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi, Thank you for your advice . I sent an email explaining what I have. I wasn't clear. I have 7 tanks right now and in the process of setting up and 8th one. Mary -------Original Message------- From: Ray Date: 8/19/2013 1:10:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about lighting Hi Mary, Welcome to the group: I see you're already getting advise and input. Enjoy your stay . . . and I hope it's a long one. All of the advise by others that I've read so far is well meaning, even if some may appear to be critical (it's "constructive" criticism). In all fairness to others, a lot of your remarks are generalizations, not being very specific, and even I would ask you to clarify some of them. For example, what type of Cichlids do you have? For that matter, what kind of Silver Dollars do you have? As you only mention having A 29 gallon tank, I have to assume that this is your only tank and that your goldfish resides in this tank along with the other fishes you mention. Since you happened to join here, and since you outlined some of what you're doing in this hobby, we seem to be obliged to advise you when we see something that we know is wrong -- not to jump all over you for it -- but to advise you of what's properly done (even though you haven't asked for it -- LOL). Actually, just as John is beginning to question, and just as Patrick states, because goldfish have different requirements (they're cold water fish), they really do not belong in a tropical fish tank with higher temperatures, and you don't want to lower the temoperature too much to accomodate them as then the tropicals will get sick. They really belong in their own tank, and a much larger one at that since they're pond fish, which can grow to between 12" and 14". We're telling you this only to help to succeed, before you start having problems which you never suspected. Still need to know what kind of Cichlids you have, as many can get quite large -- more than large enough to eat your guppies. If they're Dwarf Cichlids though, you wouldn't have that problem, but may encounter your guppies suddenly becoming beaten up when these Cichlids reach a stage at which they'll start breeding. You may not necessarily have the best combination of tropical fishes in this tank, but your clarification of them would explain this to us better, to be able to better advise you. There are many species of Silver Dollars, some which would eventually get too large for your tank -- and yes, they do enjoy plants as their salad bar < g >. I see you're opting for the T-5 lighting. They are quite economical, but you would do just as fine with these plants if you used T-8's. You do need stronger lighting though, as 17 Watts is not enough for your 29 gallon (18 3/4" high) tank. A twin-tube reflector would be much better. As for the "K -type number, yes, you want to stay within about 6000K -- 6500K for best plant growth. This has nothing to do with the brightness but is the Kelvin temperature" of the lighting it produces, and in this case "temperature" has nothing to do with heat: it's the color of the white light that's being produced (it's slightly "warmer" [redder} instead of bluer). Do not get the 10000K lighting though. This is good for illuminating marine tanks but is not the best for growing plants. To give you some idea as to how much light you need for these low-light plants, I have Java Moss flourishing in tanks at almost floor level with twin T-12 lights suspended from the 6 1/2' ceiling. This plant doesn't need a lot of light to thrive. Likewise for the Water Wisteria. The Water Sprite needs more than what I'm describing for what I'm using, but it surely doesn't need T-5's, which seem to be very expensive from what I'm seeing lately in the catalogs. As the Java Moss continues to grow though, I've found it best to turn the clump over periodically, to give all of it equal lighting over time. If it sit's in one place, the bottom of these clumps can eventually start disintegrating from the light being blocked by the top-most growth. Best of luck, and feel free to ask additional questions you may have. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi, Im new here. My name is Mary and I live in Missouri. I have cichlids, silver dollars, gold fish, guppies. > > Could someone please tell me what kind of light I need Im so confused trying to figure it out. Ive read it goes by watts per gallon then I read it doesnt. I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. I bought wisteria, water sprite and java moss, because I read they were good for beginners. My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not enough light. Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? or do I go by the 6500k type number. I dont have alot of money to spend but I would like a nice tank. If I have to buy something I want to make sure I buy the right thing rather than guessing. Because I have no idea what Im doing. > > Thank you > Mary > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55316	From: Tracy Edsall	Date: 8/19/2013
Subject: Florida Gar/Spotted Gar - Turning pink?

I have a Florida Spotted Gar/Asian Spotted Gar/Spotted Gar (same fish? different variations? idk) that is turning pink. At least, his fins are. He is healthy, eating well, about 5". His diet consists of live ghost shrimp and live guppies. He's had a few live rosey reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies.) Like I said, nothing seems to be WRONG with him,, other than the color change. I'm just curious. I asked at the local pet store and they didn't know, or weren't sure. Thanks!   TracyKathleen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55317	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?

I caught a gar while trophy bass fishing in Florida. It was 4 foot long. Where are you going to keep this?. Harry ________________________________ From: tkedsall721 <tkedsall721@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?   I just bought a Gar from a fish store a couple weeks ago. He's healthy, eating great, about 5" long....but his fins are turning pink. Any clues as to why? I asked one of the girls at a different pet store I frequent, and she was confused. Told me as long as he's healthy and looks fine (other than the color) not to worry. He's either a Florida Gar, a Spotted Gar or an Asian Spotted Gar. I don't know if those are all the same thing, or different variations. I'm just curious as to the color change. I love pink, so I think its great. Oh, he eats live Ghost Shrimp and live Guppies, had a few live Rosey Reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55318	From: Patrick	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi again Mary, Thanks for responding back and clearing up our confusion about your tank setups. Now that we know that all those fish are in different tanks, it sounds like you have all that under control. So back to your original question... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote: > I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. > I bought , water sprite and java moss, Sounds good so far. Water sprite and Wisteria are nice in that you can grow either planted or floating, so you might want to plant some and leave a few floating. The guppies, especially the new fry, like to swim in and around the dangling roots of the floating ones. > My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. > Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not > enough light. It is not a lot of light, but the plants you have are not particularly demanding and if you grow some floating, it will be up closer to the light anyway. You might just give it six months and see how it goes. If you find the plants simply don't thrive, then you might consider a lighting upgrade. > Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. > How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? Generally for any particular fluorescent system, the wattage is related to length and to get brighter lamps in the same lengths you often have to change systems (e.g. from T12 to T8, T8 to T5, T8s to Compact fluorescents, etc.). Within any particular type, in your case T8, you are stuck with 17W lamps in 24" lamps. > or do I go by the 6500k type number. Kelvin temperature is a rating used to give the overall color of the light source. To give you a quick idea, normal cool white lamps which are usually rather yellowish/greenish tend to be in the 3000-4000K range. "Daylight" lamps will tend to be in the 5000-6500K range which are mostly whitish looking and then much bluer looking lights are above that typically in the 10,000K range. For freshwater you want to stick with stuff around the "daylight" range, mainly to look the most natural over your tank. Plants will likely grow under lamps on either side of that range, but your tank might look weird with lighting that doesn't look like natural sunlight. Patrick

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55319	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting

Hi Again Mary, In rereading this message you had posted yesterday, I'd like to add something in reply that I'm sure will help you, even if you don't realize it now. In going through your message, I note that you're trying to be diligent in doing weekly partail water changes (PWC's) and general maintenance -- which is good to see, as it will help prevent problems in the future. I also see that you're aware of when crowding may start to occur, and you take precautions to avoid this -- GREAT. In getting to the testing equipment you're using, please know that test strip results are notoriously misleading and very often erroneous. Undoubtedly, your pet shop again probably advised you to use them, but for much more accurate readings, I'd advise that you consider getting liquid test kits -- which are so much more accurate. You can get the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH tests all in one master test kit instead of having to buy individual ones. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc makes an excellent kit that's easy to read (and easy to use). If you can't find it at your LFS (local fish store), try going up on line to one of the more reputable aquarium supply houses (Drs Foster & Smith, That Pet Place, Big Al's, etc.). Seems that, That Pet Place (also called That Fish Place) has about the best prices for them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone > Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the more I find out I dont know. > Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the same tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We have 7 goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so they wont be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by themselves. I dont know what kind they are. When I bought them they were real small and the sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had them a couple of years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were differant ones. No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. > The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one, bright yellow, blue, white, striped. > The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon that has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. > The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. He is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit growing I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he sees me then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a couple of teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like I was told to feed him. > All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the water. I try to do weekly water changes. > Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked the way they looked. > Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to learn. By reading and asking questions. > > Mary >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55320	From: tkedsall721	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?

They sell them in fish stores. I have him in a 55gal tank for now, gonna upgrade as he gets bigger. I also am starting a pond next spring. He's only 5" right now. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > I caught a gar while trophy bass fishing in Florida. > > It was 4 foot long. Where are you going to keep this?. > > Harry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: tkedsall721 <tkedsall721@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink? > > > >   > I just bought a Gar from a fish store a couple weeks ago. He's healthy, eating great, about 5" long....but his fins are turning pink. Any clues as to why? I asked one of the girls at a different pet store I frequent, and she was confused. Told me as long as he's healthy and looks fine (other than the color) not to worry. > He's either a Florida Gar, a Spotted Gar or an Asian Spotted Gar. I don't know if those are all the same thing, or different variations. I'm just curious as to the color change. I love pink, so I think its great. > Oh, he eats live Ghost Shrimp and live Guppies, had a few live Rosey Reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies). > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55321	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting

Hi Mary, Just like to echo Ray's sentiments-you are doing some good work! John*<o)))<* On 20 August 2013 03:41, Mary <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Everyone > Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a > beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the > more I find out I dont know. > Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro > because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the > same tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We > have 7 goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so > they wont be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by > themselves. I dont know what kind they are. When I bought them they were > real small and the sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had > them a couple of years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were > differant ones. No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. > The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there > names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told > me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a > half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding > spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one, > bright yellow, blue, white, striped. > The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon that > has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. > The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. He > is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started > out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit > growing I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he > sees me then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a > couple of teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like > I was told to feed him. > All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, > some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the > water. I try to do weekly water changes. > Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked the > way they looked. > Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've > always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to > learn. By reading and asking questions. > > Mary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55322	From: Ray	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?

Hi Tracey, They sell a lot of different fish in fish stores with the potential of getting hugh -- but that's no answer to Harry's question. The hobbyist needs to consider whether he can propeerly maintain a fish long term, as it reaches full size, in the aquarium he can supply the fish with. A 55 gallon tank will not house a 4' Gar -- of any species (and they all reach about this size -- with the exception of the Alligator Gar, which reaches at least 6' and more often between 9' and 10'); it won't even afford the fish room enough to turn around. I've seen Pirarucu (Arapaima) sold in fish stores, at a size of about 7" to 9". This fish reaches a minimum of 12' (yes, 12 feet) on up to 14' or 16', and will weigh well over 600 pounds (at the smaller size). Do you think you can house that in a 55 gallon tank? Yes, you're certainly going to need that pond for this Gar, if you're in a warm climate year 'round where you can keep it outside during the Winter. You'll be needing to feed it more than shrimp and guppies when it reaches maturity, and rosey reds will need to be replaced by foot long red snappers! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tkedsall721" <tkedsall721@...> wrote: > > They sell them in fish stores. I have him in a 55gal tank for now, gonna upgrade as he gets bigger. I also am starting a pond next spring. He's only 5" right now. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > I caught a gar while trophy bass fishing in Florida. > > > > It was 4 foot long. Where are you going to keep this?. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: tkedsall721 <tkedsall721@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:30 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink? > > > > > > > >   > > I just bought a Gar from a fish store a couple weeks ago. He's healthy, eating great, about 5" long....but his fins are turning pink. Any clues as to why? I asked one of the girls at a different pet store I frequent, and she was confused. Told me as long as he's healthy and looks fine (other than the color) not to worry. > > He's either a Florida Gar, a Spotted Gar or an Asian Spotted Gar. I don't know if those are all the same thing, or different variations. I'm just curious as to the color change. I love pink, so I think its great. > > Oh, he eats live Ghost Shrimp and live Guppies, had a few live Rosey Reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies). > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55323	From: harry perry	Date: 8/20/2013
Subject: Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?

My pet store sells Arowanas. They can reach 47" in the wild. Usually around 30" for tank raised. Min. size tank would be about 300 gallons. Oscars 12 to 14". I've also seen the giant Gourami usually sold under it's scientific name. They can reach 24". Folks really need to think about this. Even if you have the room it gets expensive. I've always wondered why. A large tank can hold a lot of different interesting fish instead of just one big one. Harry ________________________________ From: Ray <sevenspringss1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:47 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink?   Hi Tracey, They sell a lot of different fish in fish stores with the potential of getting hugh -- but that's no answer to Harry's question. The hobbyist needs to consider whether he can propeerly maintain a fish long term, as it reaches full size, in the aquarium he can supply the fish with. A 55 gallon tank will not house a 4' Gar -- of any species (and they all reach about this size -- with the exception of the Alligator Gar, which reaches at least 6' and more often between 9' and 10'); it won't even afford the fish room enough to turn around. I've seen Pirarucu (Arapaima) sold in fish stores, at a size of about 7" to 9". This fish reaches a minimum of 12' (yes, 12 feet) on up to 14' or 16', and will weigh well over 600 pounds (at the smaller size). Do you think you can house that in a 55 gallon tank? Yes, you're certainly going to need that pond for this Gar, if you're in a warm climate year 'round where you can keep it outside during the Winter. You'll be needing to feed it more than shrimp and guppies when it reaches maturity, and rosey reds will need to be replaced by foot long red snappers! Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tkedsall721" <tkedsall721@...> wrote: > > They sell them in fish stores. I have him in a 55gal tank for now, gonna upgrade as he gets bigger. I also am starting a pond next spring. He's only 5" right now. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@> wrote: > > > > I caught a gar while trophy bass fishing in Florida. > > > > It was 4 foot long. Where are you going to keep this?. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: tkedsall721 <tkedsall721@> > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:30 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Spotted Gar/Florida Gar - Turning pink? > > > > > > > >   > > I just bought a Gar from a fish store a couple weeks ago. He's healthy, eating great, about 5" long....but his fins are turning pink. Any clues as to why? I asked one of the girls at a different pet store I frequent, and she was confused. Told me as long as he's healthy and looks fine (other than the color) not to worry. > > He's either a Florida Gar, a Spotted Gar or an Asian Spotted Gar. I don't know if those are all the same thing, or different variations. I'm just curious as to the color change. I love pink, so I think its great. > > Oh, he eats live Ghost Shrimp and live Guppies, had a few live Rosey Reds as well. (Main diet is shrimp and guppies). > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55324	From: Noura T.	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Anubias Flower!

My Anubias (Nana, I think) produced a flower yesterday! I was wondering why does that new "leaf" look abnormally tall, and.. VOILA! I've had this plant for 3 years, and managed to cut it and reproduce 3 new plants last year. They're all in my 6 G by the window, they get natural sun light for about 2 hours a day in Summer. They didn't do well at all in the 20 G (Poor lighting). I uploaded a pic, it should be here after approval: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/list Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55325	From: cobra427lady	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: Re: Anubias Flower!

Very pretty...means they are happy where they are :-)....mine frequently bloom in my 115 and 90 gallon tanks but as you mentioned it is definitely lighting that matters top get even these low light plants to flower ;-). Enjoy them! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Noura T." <n-ocean@...> wrote: > > My Anubias (Nana, I think) produced a flower yesterday! I was wondering why > does that new "leaf" look abnormally tall, and.. VOILA! > > I've had this plant for 3 years, and managed to cut it and reproduce 3 new > plants last year. They're all in my 6 G by the window, they get natural sun > light for about 2 hours a day in Summer. They didn't do well at all in the > 20 G (Poor lighting). > > > > I uploaded a pic, it should be here after approval: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/photos/album/1956468285/pic/list > > > > Noura > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55326	From: harry perry	Date: 8/21/2013
Subject: New Angelfish Tank

It's been years since I kept angelfish. I put 1 large and 2 small in my 30 gallon. They are by themselves. I was thinking perhaps the size mix was a mistake. This is a planted tank so the little ones can hide if need be. That didn't happen. The little ones are staying with the larger fish. The larger fish seems to accept them. That's for now. These fish are cichlids. So, we will see how it goes. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55327	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Recommendations, please

Getting back into the freshwater tank arena and upgrading from a 6G to a 20+. Love Marineland bio wheel filtration and LED lighting so..... currently looking at 20G or 30G half moon tank OR a bowfront 48G. Concerns on the half moon....BOY those suckers are TALL. I mean REALLY TALL. I might need a step ladder for maintenance and where do you get nets/vacuums for something that tall. Leaning toward the bow front which is only 20" tall. Have heard 1) the half moons are TALL and most tropicals aren't that thrilled with the lack of swimming length. Anyone own one of the half moons and your thoughts/exp. vs. a bow front (I frankly don't care but my partner has this thing about viewing pleasure and two stage LED lighting) Will keep angelfish (they are new to me) and some other tropicals (if there are any) that the ciclids won't devour. Thank you for your help.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55328	From: Amber	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: New Angelfish Tank

I've never kept more than 2 in a tank before, I've heard that eventually they will pair off and then the 2 will attack the odd one out. I currently have 3 angel fish, 2 in one tank (both females, but they're still trying to have babies regardless, LOL), and the newest one in another tank. I'm thinking about mixing them up to see if the new Angel fish is also a female. It's the prettiest one of the bunch (nearly all black, I love the black ones). Good luck with your 3 :) Amber On 8/21/2013 6:27 PM, harry perry wrote: > > It's been years since I kept angelfish. > > I put 1 large and 2 small in my 30 gallon. They are by themselves. > > I was thinking perhaps the size mix was a mistake. This is a planted > tank so the little ones can hide if need be. > > That didn't happen. The little ones are staying with the larger fish. > The larger fish seems to accept them. That's for now. These fish are > cichlids. So, we will see how it goes. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ._, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55329	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting

Thank you. I will get the regular water tester rather than the strips. I bought strips because when I first set up my tanks I took some water to the store to be tested. They used strips so I thought that's what I should use. I know better now and will correct the problem. Mary -------Original Message------- From: Ray Date: 8/20/2013 12:15:14 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re question about lighting Hi Again Mary, In rereading this message you had posted yesterday, I'd like to add something in reply that I'm sure will help you, even if you don't realize it now. In going through your message, I note that you're trying to be diligent in doing weekly partail water changes (PWC's) and general maintenance -- which is good to see, as it will help prevent problems in the future. I also see that you're aware of when crowding may start to occur, and you take precautions to avoid this -- GREAT. In getting to the testing equipment you're using, please know that test strip results are notoriously misleading and very often erroneous. Undoubtedly, your pet shop again probably advised you to use them, but for much more accurate readings, I'd advise that you consider getting liquid test kits -- which are so much more accurate. You can get the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH tests all in one master test kit instead of having to buy individual ones. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc makes an excellent kit that's easy to read (and easy to use). If you can't find it at your LFS (local fish store), try going up on line to one of the more reputable aquarium supply houses (Drs Foster & Smith That Pet Place, Big Al's, etc.). Seems that, That Pet Place (also called That Fish Place) has about the best prices for them. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone > Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the more I find out I dont know. > Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the same tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We have 7 goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so they wont be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by themselves. I dont know what kind they are. When I bought them they were real small and the sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had them a couple of years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were differant ones. No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. > The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one, bright yellow, blue, white, striped. > The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon that has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. > The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. He is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit growing I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he sees me then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a couple of teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like I was told to feed him. > All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the water I try to do weekly water changes. > Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked the way they looked. > Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to learn. By reading and asking questions. > > Mary > ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55330	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Thank you for advice. I was able to find a t8 full day light bulb 6500k to put in my fixture, plus I bought a plant blub. So I'm hoping between the two it will work for a while. Then I will get a T5 later. I had a really hard time finding a t8 daylight blub at the big pet chains. They were all t5. I was beginning to think I didn't have a choice but change to t5 immediately to save my plants. But I found a small mom/pop type fish store and they had a quite a few t8s to choose from. Mary -------Original Message------- From: Patrick Date: 8/20/2013 10:47:54 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about lighting Hi again Mary, Thanks for responding back and clearing up our confusion about your tank setups. Now that we know that all those fish are in different tanks, it sounds like you have all that under control. So back to your original question... --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote: > I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. > I bought , water sprite and java moss, Sounds good so far. Water sprite and Wisteria are nice in that you can grow either planted or floating, so you might want to plant some and leave a few floating. The guppies, especially the new fry, like to swim in and around the dangling roots of the floating ones. > My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt plant blub for it. > Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its not > enough light. It is not a lot of light, but the plants you have are not particularly demanding and if you grow some floating, it will be up closer to the light anyway. You might just give it six months and see how it goes. If you find the plants simply don't thrive, then you might consider a lighting upgrade. > Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. > How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? Generally for any particular fluorescent system, the wattage is related to length and to get brighter lamps in the same lengths you often have to change systems (e.g. from T12 to T8, T8 to T5, T8s to Compact fluorescents, etc.). Within any particular type, in your case T8, you are stuck with 17W lamps in 24" lamps. > or do I go by the 6500k type number. Kelvin temperature is a rating used to give the overall color of the light source. To give you a quick idea, normal cool white lamps which are usually rather yellowish/greenish tend to be in the 3000-4000K range. "Daylight" lamps will tend to be in the 5000-6500K range which are mostly whitish looking and then much bluer looking lights are above that typically in the 10,000K range. For freshwater you want to stick with stuff around the daylight" range, mainly to look the most natural over your tank. Plants will likely grow under lamps on either side of that range, but your tank might look weird with lighting that doesn't look like natural sunlight. Patrick ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55331	From: marywilson.1960@yahoo.com	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting

Thank you -------Original Message------- From: SIMMONDS JOHN Date: 8/20/2013 8:28:59 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re question about lighting Hi Mary, Just like to echo Ray's sentiments-you are doing some good work! John*<o)))<* On 20 August 2013 03:41, Mary <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Everyone > Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a > beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the > more I find out I dont know. > Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro > because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the > same tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We > have 7 goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so > they wont be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by > themselves. I dont know what kind they are. When I bought them they were > real small and the sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had > them a couple of years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were > differant ones. No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. > The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there > names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told > me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a > half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding > spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one > bright yellow, blue, white, striped. > The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon that > has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. > The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. He > is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started > out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit > growing I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he > sees me then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a > couple of teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like > I was told to feed him. > All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, > some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the > water. I try to do weekly water changes. > Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked the > way they looked. > Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've > always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to > learn. By reading and asking questions. > > Mary > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55332	From: Ray	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Re question about lighting

Hi Mary, You should consider shopping around locally for an API master test kit. If it's not much more than $5 or $6 over the price of one from one of these on-line discount aquarium supply houses, grab it. These supply houses charge between $.95 and $5.95 for shipping (flat rate). To get the most out of this shipping charge, you ought to consider ordering anything else you need or you're going to need, at this same time. Try going up to their web sites and having their catalogs sent to you to get an idea what else they're offering. For the absolute best service though, the mom and pop stores where you finally find the T-8 bulbs are the best. They take the best care of their fish too. Support them when you can, as they'll support you when you have a problem. PetSmart, PetCo and the rest won't. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "marywilson.1960@..." <marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > > Thank you. I will get the regular water tester rather than the strips. I > bought strips because when I first set up my tanks I took some water to the > store to be tested. They used strips so I thought that's what I should use. > I know better now and will correct the problem. > > Mary > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Ray > Date: 8/20/2013 12:15:14 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Re question about lighting > > Hi Again Mary, > > In rereading this message you had posted yesterday, I'd like to add > something in reply that I'm sure will help you, even if you don't realize it > now. In going through your message, I note that you're trying to be > diligent in doing weekly partail water changes (PWC's) and general > maintenance -- which is good to see, as it will help prevent problems in the > future. I also see that you're aware of when crowding may start to occur, > and you take precautions to avoid this -- GREAT. In getting to the testing > equipment you're using, please know that test strip results are notoriously > misleading and very often erroneous. Undoubtedly, your pet shop again > probably advised you to use them, but for much more accurate readings, I'd > advise that you consider getting liquid test kits -- which are so much more > accurate. You can get the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH tests all in one > master test kit instead of having to buy individual ones. Aquarium > Pharmaceuticals Inc makes an excellent kit that's easy to read (and easy to > use). If you can't find it at your LFS (local fish store), try going up on > line to one of the more reputable aquarium supply houses (Drs Foster & Smith > That Pet Place, Big Al's, etc.). Seems that, That Pet Place (also called > That Fish Place) has about the best prices for them. > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <marywilson.1960@> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone > > Thank you for all your advice and the link to help me out. Yes I am a > beginner in this hobby so I dont know very much at all. The more I read the > more I find out I dont know. > > Sorry I guess I should of been more detailed. I just did a quick intro > because I was in a hurry to save my plants. But no my fish arent in the same > tanks. My fancy gold fish are in a 50 gallon tank by themselves. We have 7 > goldfish. In the process of switching some to a 75 gallon tank so they wont > be crowded. My silver dollars are in a 40 gallon tank by themselves. I dont > know what kind they are. When I bought them they were real small and the > sign just said silver dollars. They are big now. Ive had them a couple of > years. They are a silver in color. I didnt know there were differant ones. > No they havent banged into the sides of the tank. > > The cichlids are also in a 50 gallon by themselves. I dont know there > names either. I bought them at the same time at the pet store and they told > me which would and wouldnt live together. Ive had them about a year and a > half they are doing great. No fights, no deaths. Of course they have hiding > spots too. They did tell me they were south american. I have an orange one, > bright yellow, blue, white, striped. > > The guppies are in a tank by themselves also. Then I have a 37 gallon > that has 3 ghost, fish and 7 neons and a couple of mollies. > > The last tank is a 40 gallon with one fish. Dont know his name either. > He is black and yellow striped probably about 6 inches long now. He started > out about a inch and half. I know hes tropical and if he doesnt quit growing > I will need a bigger tank for him. He hides all the time unless he sees me > then he comes out to be fed. It kind of looks like he might have a couple of > teeth in front, not sure. He does great with tropical flakes like I was told > to feed him. > > All my fish have heaters except for the goldfish. They all have filters, > some over the back some with canisters. I also have strips to test the water > I try to do weekly water changes. > > Sorry I dont know the names of the fish. I bought them because I liked > the way they looked. > > Thanks again for all the advice. I do need it being a beginner. I've > always just did what the pet store said to do. Now Im actually trying to > learn. By reading and asking questions. > > > > Mary > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55333	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Recommendations, please

Hi Lynn, I would always go for large surface area of a tank because that is where the gas exchange takes place & the more surface are you have then the more oxygenated the water will be, therefore a more pleasant place to live for the fish. A particular dislike of mine is those tall hexagonal column tanks which may well hold many gallons of water but the surface area compared to the volume is pathetic. In those tanks the fish have nowhere to go except up & down which is most unnatural for the majority of fish. A bow front is an excellent choice both for us to view as it magnifies the fish & also because it is relatively long it has plenty of surface area so the fish [of whatever type] can swim in long straight lines. Admittedly I am speaking from having to cater for large, energetic pond Goldfish in a tank but I think the same principle holds true for most species. John*<o)))<* On 22 August 2013 14:17, rookielynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > ** > > > Getting back into the freshwater tank arena and upgrading from a 6G to a > 20+. Love Marineland bio wheel filtration and LED lighting so..... > currently looking at 20G or 30G half moon tank OR a bowfront 48G. > > Concerns on the half moon....BOY those suckers are TALL. I mean REALLY > TALL. I might need a step ladder for maintenance and where do you get > nets/vacuums for something that tall. > > Leaning toward the bow front which is only 20" tall. > > Have heard 1) the half moons are TALL and most tropicals aren't that > thrilled with the lack of swimming length. > > Anyone own one of the half moons and your thoughts/exp. vs. a bow front > (I frankly don't care but my partner has this thing about viewing pleasure > and two stage LED lighting) > > Will keep angelfish (they are new to me) and some other tropicals (if > there are any) that the ciclids won't devour. > > Thank you for your help. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55334	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Re: Question about lighting

Hi Mary, They are the best type of stores as usually the owners keep fish as a hobby so at least the advice you get has some basis. Also, as you have found, they often have a good selection. Generally the staff in the big box stores have no interest in the goods & animals they sell & will tell you what they think you want to hear. John*<o)))<* On 23 August 2013 00:30, marywilson.1960@... < marywilson.1960@...> wrote: > ** > > > Thank you for advice. I was able to find a t8 full day light bulb 6500k to > put in my fixture, plus I bought a plant blub. So I'm hoping between the > two > it will work for a while. Then I will get a T5 later. I had a really hard > time finding a t8 daylight blub at the big pet chains. They were all t5. I > was beginning to think I didn't have a choice but change to t5 immediately > to save my plants. But I found a small mom/pop type fish store and they had > a quite a few t8s to choose from. > > Mary > > > > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Patrick > Date: 8/20/2013 10:47:54 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Question about lighting > > Hi again Mary, > > Thanks for responding back and clearing up our confusion about your tank > setups. Now that we know that all those fish are in different tanks, it > sounds like you have all that under control. So back to your original > question... > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" wrote: > > I have a 29 gallon tank, that I want to plant for my guppies. > > I bought , water sprite and java moss, > > Sounds good so far. Water sprite and Wisteria are nice in that you can grow > either planted or floating, so you might want to plant some and leave a few > floating. The guppies, especially the new fry, like to swim in and around > the dangling roots of the floating ones. > > > > My light fixture is a T8 that came with my kit and I bought a 17watt > plant > blub for it. > > Which the pet store told me would be perfect but from what Im reading its > not > > enough light. > > It is not a lot of light, but the plants you have are not particularly > demanding and if you grow some floating, it will be up closer to the light > anyway. You might just give it six months and see how it goes. If you find > the plants simply don't thrive, then you might consider a lighting > upgrade. > > > > Do I have to go to a T5 fixture? I only see 17watts for the t8 light. > > How many watts and bulbs will I need or does it even go by watts? > > Generally for any particular fluorescent system, the wattage is related to > length and to get brighter lamps in the same lengths you often have to > change systems (e.g. from T12 to T8, T8 to T5, T8s to Compact fluorescents, > etc.). Within any particular type, in your case T8, you are stuck with 17W > lamps in 24" lamps. > > > > or do I go by the 6500k type number. > > Kelvin temperature is a rating used to give the overall color of the light > source. To give you a quick idea, normal cool white lamps which are usually > rather yellowish/greenish tend to be in the 3000-4000K range. "Daylight" > lamps will tend to be in the 5000-6500K range which are mostly whitish > looking and then much bluer looking lights are above that typically in the > 10,000K range. For freshwater you want to stick with stuff around the > daylight" range, mainly to look the most natural over your tank. Plants > will > likely grow under lamps on either side of that range, but your tank might > look weird with lighting that doesn't look like natural sunlight. > > Patrick > > > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT > LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where > you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55335	From: harry perry	Date: 8/22/2013
Subject: Keeping large fish.

Or should I say buying large fish. Once the reality of what's involved sets in, the expense and up keep, they usually change their mind. Seems like perhaps Tracy got her ass up about our posts on large fish.  That's unfortunate. As moderators of one of the largest fish groups I feel we have an obligation to try and wake folks up about this issue. This impacts the entire hobby. They buy these fish and realize in a few years that they can't take care of them properly and don't want to kill them so they let them go. Tropical fish can survive in the wild in states like Ca and Florida.  That's why these states have very restrictive invasive species laws. Laws have a way of growing to include other imported fish. Some fish should just be left in the wild. They are happier that way. Or I could post my cook book on large aquarium fish. Harry. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55336	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Keeping large fish.

Hi Harry, I completely agree with you, I believe if you decide to take on any animal you have a moral obligation to do your level best for it. I think that this is also very true for most streamlined Goldfish owners including myself who took on the humble Goldfish only to realise that these animals really need big ponds to survive properly. I was lucky in that I got the info I needed & was also able to provide my lot with a large enough tank for them to flourish although the water change regime keeps me on my toes! John*<o)))<* On 23 August 2013 04:07, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Or should I say buying large fish. Once the reality of what's involved > sets in, the expense and up keep, they usually change their mind. > > Seems like perhaps Tracy got her ass up about our posts on large fish. > > That's unfortunate. > > As moderators of one of the largest fish groups I feel we have an > obligation to try and wake folks up about this issue. > > This impacts the entire hobby. > > They buy these fish and realize in a few years that they can't take care > of them properly and don't want to kill them so they let them go. > > Tropical fish can survive in the wild in states like Ca and Florida. > That's why these states have very restrictive invasive species laws. > > Laws have a way of growing to include other imported fish. > > Some fish should just be left in the wild. They are happier that way. > > Or I could post my cook book on large aquarium fish. > > Harry. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55337	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Recommendations, please

Thanks, John. Much appreciated. We're going for a 48 bowfront....really long, lots of surface area and the fish should be happy. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Lynn, > > I would always go for large surface area of a tank because that is where > the gas exchange takes place & the more surface are you have then the more > oxygenated the water will be, therefore a more pleasant place to live for > the fish. A particular dislike of mine is those tall hexagonal column tanks > which may well hold many gallons of water but the surface area compared to > the volume is pathetic. In those tanks the fish have nowhere to go except > up & down which is most unnatural for the majority of fish. > > A bow front is an excellent choice both for us to view as it magnifies the > fish & also because it is relatively long it has plenty of surface area so > the fish [of whatever type] can swim in long straight lines. Admittedly I > am speaking from having to cater for large, energetic pond Goldfish in a > tank but I think the same principle holds true for most species. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 22 August 2013 14:17, rookielynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Getting back into the freshwater tank arena and upgrading from a 6G to a > > 20+. Love Marineland bio wheel filtration and LED lighting so..... > > currently looking at 20G or 30G half moon tank OR a bowfront 48G. > > > > Concerns on the half moon....BOY those suckers are TALL. I mean REALLY > > TALL. I might need a step ladder for maintenance and where do you get > > nets/vacuums for something that tall. > > > > Leaning toward the bow front which is only 20" tall. > > > > Have heard 1) the half moons are TALL and most tropicals aren't that > > thrilled with the lack of swimming length. > > > > Anyone own one of the half moons and your thoughts/exp. vs. a bow front > > (I frankly don't care but my partner has this thing about viewing pleasure > > and two stage LED lighting) > > > > Will keep angelfish (they are new to me) and some other tropicals (if > > there are any) that the ciclids won't devour. > > > > Thank you for your help. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55338	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Filter/heater questions

We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan so looking mostly at their products. I am an "ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? Marineland is recommending an internal filter 20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for maintenance but I'm open to suggestions Also need a heater.......like an option for adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk Thank you

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55339	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Ciclids

My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a ciclid tank. I'm basically ciclid ignorant. Can you keep all ciclids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. Any ciclid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55340	From: rookielynn	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Heaters

Hi All, Heat wise, I'm getting the advice of 5 watts per gallon. We're getting a 48 gal so a 250 watt??? Or should I get two 150s and place at either end of the tank? Also read it's better to put the heater on it's side at the base of the tank for improved heat distribution? Am I being neurotic?....on second thought don't answer that one :-) One 250? of two 150's. BTW, I live in FLorida so it goes from warm to warmer...no wild temp. fluctuations Thank you all

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55341	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids

Oscar wants a big tank all to himself. Many cichlids can‘t combine with angels. Possibly even most. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rookielynn Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 10:44 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ciclids My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a ciclid tank. I'm basically ciclid ignorant. Can you keep all ciclids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. Any ciclid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55342	From: Ray	Date: 8/24/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

Hi Rookie, First, I'd like to ask, to please sign your messages so that we know who you are (thank you). I don't know where you got your advice, but if you're seeking advice here, know that the average wattage per gallon for a heater has always been 3 Watts per gallon, for the last 60 or 70 years -- or for as long as there's been electric aquarium heaters. "Average" in this case, meaning to take into account the various applications of one. These applications include the average temperature of the room the aquarium is being kept in. It does not include having to raise the temperature much above what's normally needed to maintain tropicals -- and more extreme temperatures are occasionally needed when encountering certain fish diseases. Three Watts per gallon will raise an aquariums temperature a minimum of 7.5 o above the ambient temperature. As the average room temperature during the winter is generally considered to be around 70 o, these three Watts per gallon will raise the tank's temperature to at least 77.5 o. Most often, this wattage is safe to raise the temperature a few degrees higher, and 80 o can often be expected. As you're in Florida, it's doubtful that your room temperature dips down to 70 o, and 72 o in the winter is probably the lowest it ever gets to -- but you would know that better. If 72 o is the lowest your room averages in the winter, then a 5 Watt per gallon heater could raise your aquarium to around a minimum of around 85 o, with the potential to raise it higher. Since your room's average temperature may well be higher than 72 o, then 5 Watts per gallon is really overkill, and could lead to cooked fish if the heater malfunctions (sticks on). Another variable is that different heater manufacturers use slightly different gauge heater wire elements and different slightly different heater element metal compositions, leading to varying efficiencies of the wattage a heater is rating for, with some heaters producing more heat per Watt and others producing less heat per Watt. The Watt being used is not necessarily always being used to create the same amount of heat in each different heater, with some of this wattage being converted into light when the heater element/wire glows a brighter shade of red and vice versa. You'd probably do best using 4 Watts per gallon to have the extra capacity to raise the temperature to at least 86 o, if you ever find the need for it -- and there are occasional needs for it, as I mentioned above. But, a heating system having the potential to raise the temperature much above your regular needs should never be concentrated into just one heater. It's always best to use two heaters, each of half the total needed wattage, to ensure that if one heater fails, that it will not cook or chill your fish. You'd do best with two 100 Watt heaters, each set at the same temperature, which should be more than adequate in your "warm to warmer" climate. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Heat wise, I'm getting the advice of 5 watts per gallon. We're getting a 48 gal so a 250 watt??? Or should I get two 150s and place at either end of the tank? Also read it's better to put the heater on it's side at the base of the tank for improved heat distribution? Am I being neurotic?....on second thought don't answer that one :-) > > One 250? of two 150's. BTW, I live in FLorida so it goes from warm to warmer...no wild temp. fluctuations > > Thank you all >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55343	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Cichlids

Hi Rookie, Cichlids are very easy to become fond of, in good part because they can take special attention to their keepers. They've evolved as some of the more intelligent fishes to be kept in the home aquarium. Yes, some Cichlids are kept better together than others, and no, not all Cichlids may be kept together. Oscars are nice, but as they can reach up to 18" in the best-kept aquaria (and at least 12" to 14" even in lesser-maintained aquaria), they can tear an Angelfish apart if any aggression issues ever arise -- and Cichlids are known to become territorial, with the necessary aggression accompanying this territoriality as a means to maintain it, if and when they want to own an area of substrate. It appears your statement of "angels and other freshwater OK" may be incomplete, as I'm not understanding your meaning. Would you like to clarify that phrase? To continue with what Cichlids may be kept with Angels, you may include one of the Chocolate Cichlid species (Hypselcara temporalis), various Severums (Heros efasciatus, H. appendiculatus, H. sp. "Rotkeil"), Festivum (Mesonauta festivus), Keyhole Cichlid (Cleithracara maronii) or many of the less agressive medium size Cichlids. Uaru amphiacanthoides may also be kept with larger Angels even though it can reach over 12", as it's more mellow, but it may have the tendancy to hog more of the food, the same as Angels will often do if kept with Discus. Things can change quickly though when any two of a Cichlid species want to breed as even the milder ones (and this may include Angels) can suddenly become terrors. I don't think any specific Cichlid site could answer your questions any more completely (and accurately) as the members on the List would do. You've already received replies from other members here pertaining to Cichlids, which were right on the money. You may even be mislead if you wound up on the wrong Cichlid site that's being run by someone appearing to be authorative but who may really know next to nothing. It's hard locating any good site unless you already know enough about a subject to know if the site is of benefit, as there's a lot of bogus sites up on the 'Net. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a cichlid tank. I'm basically cichlid ignorant. > > Can you keep all cichlids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. > > Any cichlid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55344	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions

Rookie, Since you're a Marineland fan, why don't you just go with Marineland's Visi-Therm heaters? They're one of the absolute best and one of my favorites. Eheim-Jager heaters are at least as good though. Yes, Marineland offers a Penguin "Bio-Wheel 200" filter, as one that hangs on the back. They don't make an internal filter (this is an outside filter). This filter is designed for tanks up to 50 gallons, and will turn your tank's volume over at the rate of 4 times per hour. If you want less of an outflow from your filter return, you could go with their "Bio-Wheel 150; actually advertised as designed for tanks up to 30 gallons, but with a tank volume overturn rate of 3 times per hour for your tank. Personally, while Bio-wheel filters are good, I've found them (the bio-wheel part) to be more difficult in starting the needed nitrogen cycle. They do have three-pack cartridges too, though. Instead, I'd recommend either Marineland's C-220 Multistage Canister Filter -- designed for tanks up to 55 Gallons (has a 220 gallon turnover rate per hour, just a bit more than 4 times oper hour) -- or their C-160 Multistage Canister Filter having a turnover rate for your tank of a bit more that 3 times per hour -- designed for tanks up to 30 gallons, but I'm including these somewhat smaller filters only as they're still adequate and when needing a reduced flow return so that slower moving fish (like Angels) won't get blown away from this outlet. They're usually for lighter stocking loads when used in larger tanks. If there's no need for such concern, the C-220 would be the way to go, or the Bio-Wheel 200 if you prefer this type. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan so looking mostly at their products. I am an "ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > Marineland is recommending an internal filter 20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > Also need a heater.......like an option for adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > Thank you >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55345	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids

I have to agree with Ray 150% on everything he just said about cichlids, not to mention, as Donna pointed out, the size of tank an oscar would require to stay healthy will far exceed 48 gallons. (Minimum of 90 gallons for 1 adult oscar) Most of the dwarf cichlids, some of which Ray has mentioned (keyhole, etc.) can usually work with angels if the tank is heavily decorated to help avoid issues with territory invasions... but, as Ray pointed out, any cichlid, angels no exception, can become extremely aggressive if/when they begin to spawn. Aside from personality compatibility it is also important to check environmental compatibility. African cichlids are not compatible with angels, not only due to aggression differences, but also the need for much harder water for the Africans. Central and South American species share more of the same environmental needs as angelfish, with a few exceptions due to temp needs or extremes in soft water needs. Today's "standard angelfish" don't usually thrive at the higher temps needed by discus, nor do they thrive in the very soft water requirements that discus and some of the dwarf cichlid species need. The standard angelfish tend to thrive mostly right down the middle in regards to water hardness... pH of 7.4 - 7.8. This will also depend on where the angelfish have come from (what they were bred and raised in). Some angels can do very well in harder water, up to 8.2 - 8.4 pH, and some can do very well in softer water, down in the 6.8 - 7.0 range. When looking for tank companions for the fish you are keeping, pay close attention to environmental needs. Most tetras (with a few exceptions such as buenos aires or blue tetras, which are very aggressive or neons and cardinals who often become angel food) will fit nicely with angelfish, as do rainbow fish, (except for the smallest, such as signifer rainbows, who could become angelfish food), and livebearers. Any of the rasbora species that grow to 1.5 or more inches in length can also make great companions to angelfish. If you choose to work with anything under the size of 1.5 - 2 inches as juveniles, be sure to add those fish before the angels and let them mature so they don't become food. Angelfish are notorious for eating tiny tank mates. I keep adult white clouds and gold white clouds as well as zebra danios with my angelfish and they all thrive. I have also had great success mixing giant danios with angelfish over the years. You have a lot of options, but if you choose to stick with cichlids be prepared with a quarantine tank in case problems develop, which can happen over time. Fish that live peacefully together for the first year or 2 can suddenly become incompatible, seemingly overnight... especially when dealing with cichlids. Many fish, not just cichlids, but especially cichlids, tend to go through behavior/aggression changes when they begin to mature, even if they are not spawning or pairing up. Overall, no matter what fish you decide on, the more heavily decorated the tank, the greater the chances of long term compatibility/success. For sure, though, along with African cichlids, others to avoid would be red or green terrors, jack dempseys, jaguar cichlids, oscars, convicts, midas cichlids, and red devils. Any/all of those would quickly shred angelfish, and some of them, such as the convicts, can and will do that even if they are small (1 - 2 inches). Most of these fish would also quickly outgrow a 48 gallon tank. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a ciclid tank. I'm basically ciclid ignorant. > > Can you keep all ciclids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. > > Any ciclid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55346	From: Parham	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions

There's some really great new products on the market these days. A 20i stands for internal filtration, not the best although I do like the Bio wheel filters. Check out cobaltaquatics.com Their heaters are the best made. Good luck and congratulations on your new tank. On Aug 24, 2013, at 10:09 AM, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan so looking mostly at their products. I am an "ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > Marineland is recommending an internal filter 20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > Also need a heater.......like an option for adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > Thank you > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55347	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Filter/heater questions

Hello Parham(?) -- Please sign your name to your messages! Yes, the 20i is an internal filter, but it's manufactured by Tetra, not Marineland as Rookie prefers. Tetra's 20i internal filter is rated for up to a 20 gallon tank, and has a flow rate of only 125 gallons per hour. I doubt this would be suitable for a 48 gallon tank even if it were made by Marineland. Cobalt Aquatics' site is impressive and their Accu Therm (25W to 300W)and Neo Therm (25W to 100W) heaters appear to be of good quality. Their Accu Therm heaters are priced comperable to Visi Therm heaters, perhaps a slight bit more, but their Neo Therm heaters are priced at approximately double that of any of their competotors. I do like the feature that these latter heaters are advertised as shatterproof though, but it's usually the larger Cichlids (with larger tank and heater requirements) that tend to shatter aquarium heaters. I wouldn't necessarily state that these heaters are the best, if going only by their price, as their competitors to the Accu Therm line -- notably Aqueon and Fluval -- are priced even higher. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Parham <rnp@...> wrote: > > There's some really great new products on the market these days. A 20i stands for internal filtration, not the best although I do like the Bio wheel filters. > > Check out cobaltaquatics.com > > Their heaters are the best made. > > Good luck and congratulations on your new tank. > > > > On Aug 24, 2013, at 10:09 AM, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan so looking mostly at their products. I am an "ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > > > What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > > Marineland is recommending an internal filter 20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > > Also need a heater.......like an option for adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55348	From: Ray	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids

Dawn's contribution to this thread is 150% accurate, and it should be noted she added a good deal more information, which I thank her for. I hadn't brought up the subject of African Cichlids, only as I didn't think that Rookie was considering them when the Tiger Oscar was mentioned -- and I trust the Rift Lake (African) Cichlids are what Dawn's referring to. As Dawn points out, there a difference of aggression when African Cichlids are entered into the discussion, with these fishes being much more aggressive. On top of that, Old World (African) Cichlids and New World (Central and South American) Cichlids do not recognize each others aggression/warning signals, and "misunderstandings" or non-communication issues can easily happen between the two groups, leading to confrontations. There are many Cichlids to be avoided (South and Central American Cichlids included) when considering them for tankmates with Angels, in addition to those we've pointed out here -- many, many more which are too numerous to outline here. If you have any others besides Oscars in mind and you aren't sure about them, just ask us if they may be housed with Angelfish and we'd be glad to tell you. There are New World Cichlids which may be maintained with Angels other than what I've already mentioned, i.e., I'm presently keeping Astatheros oblongus with Angels as well as Australoheros sp. Red Ceibal with Angels, but only one individual each, in different tanks of mature Angelfish. Keeping it down to just one individual of a different Cichlid species, I see no reason why a Firemouth (Thorichthys meeki) Cichlid or a Rainbow (Herotilapia multispinosa) Cichlid couldn't be housed with Angels. The Firemouth is mostly bluff anyway, but neither would have cause to set up a territory without a mate being present. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > I have to agree with Ray 150% on everything he just said about cichlids, not to mention, as Donna pointed out, the size of tank an oscar would require to stay healthy will far exceed 48 gallons. (Minimum of 90 gallons for 1 adult oscar) Most of the dwarf cichlids, some of which Ray has mentioned (keyhole, etc.) can usually work with angels if the tank is heavily decorated to help avoid issues with territory invasions... but, as Ray pointed out, any cichlid, angels no exception, can become extremely aggressive if/when they begin to spawn. > > Aside from personality compatibility it is also important to check environmental compatibility. African cichlids are not compatible with angels, not only due to aggression differences, but also the need for much harder water for the Africans. Central and South American species share more of the same environmental needs as angelfish, with a few exceptions due to temp needs or extremes in soft water needs. Today's "standard angelfish" don't usually thrive at the higher temps needed by discus, nor do they thrive in the very soft water requirements that discus and some of the dwarf cichlid species need. The standard angelfish tend to thrive mostly right down the middle in regards to water hardness... pH of 7.4 - 7.8. This will also depend on where the angelfish have come from (what they were bred and raised in). Some angels can do very well in harder water, up to 8.2 - 8.4 pH, and some can do very well in softer water, down in the 6.8 - 7.0 range. > > When looking for tank companions for the fish you are keeping, pay close attention to environmental needs. Most tetras (with a few exceptions such as buenos aires or blue tetras, which are very aggressive or neons and cardinals who often become angel food) will fit nicely with angelfish, as do rainbow fish, (except for the smallest, such as signifer rainbows, who could become angelfish food), and livebearers. Any of the rasbora species that grow to 1.5 or more inches in length can also make great companions to angelfish. If you choose to work with anything under the size of 1.5 - 2 inches as juveniles, be sure to add those fish before the angels and let them mature so they don't become food. Angelfish are notorious for eating tiny tank mates. I keep adult white clouds and gold white clouds as well as zebra danios with my angelfish and they all thrive. I have also had great success mixing giant danios with angelfish over the years. > > You have a lot of options, but if you choose to stick with cichlids be prepared with a quarantine tank in case problems develop, which can happen over time. Fish that live peacefully together for the first year or 2 can suddenly become incompatible, seemingly overnight... especially when dealing with cichlids. Many fish, not just cichlids, but especially cichlids, tend to go through behavior/aggression changes when they begin to mature, even if they are not spawning or pairing up. Overall, no matter what fish you decide on, the more heavily decorated the tank, the greater the chances of long term compatibility/success. > > For sure, though, along with African cichlids, others to avoid would be red or green terrors, jack dempseys, jaguar cichlids, oscars, convicts, midas cichlids, and red devils. Any/all of those would quickly shred angelfish, and some of them, such as the convicts, can and will do that even if they are small (1 - 2 inches). Most of these fish would also quickly outgrow a 48 gallon tank. > > Dawn > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@> wrote: > > > > My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a ciclid tank. I'm basically ciclid ignorant. > > > > Can you keep all ciclids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. > > > > Any ciclid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55349	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Ciclids

Hi Ray! :-) Just a quick note on the firemouths... I've had/kept firemouths on/off for yrs and I haven't known many I would trust with angels, even adult angels. Not sure if you remember my mention of the geophagus iporangensis that I keep, but these guys match oscars and jack dempsey in aggression levels and a single firemouth in the tank with 4 of them holds its own, often pushing the bigger guys into corners and etc., sparring with them on a regular basis, and yes, the firemouth picks the fights often enough to make me concerned about keeping one with angels. I have also kept firemouths with oscars in the past with much the same result... and it has never taken a pair of firemouths to show that level of aggression. For safety's sake, I would have to say that an angelfish/firemouth combination, especially in a 48 gallon tank, would likely be a very risky feat. I personally would never try it as I would fear for the angels. Dawn --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Dawn's contribution to this thread is 150% accurate, and it should be noted she added a good deal more information, which I thank her for. I hadn't brought up the subject of African Cichlids, only as I didn't think that Rookie was considering them when the Tiger Oscar was mentioned -- and I trust the Rift Lake (African) Cichlids are what Dawn's referring to. > > As Dawn points out, there a difference of aggression when African Cichlids are entered into the discussion, with these fishes being much more aggressive. On top of that, Old World (African) Cichlids and New World (Central and South American) Cichlids do not recognize each others aggression/warning signals, and "misunderstandings" or non-communication issues can easily happen between the two groups, leading to confrontations. > > There are many Cichlids to be avoided (South and Central American Cichlids included) when considering them for tankmates with Angels, in addition to those we've pointed out here -- many, many more which are too numerous to outline here. If you have any others besides Oscars in mind and you aren't sure about them, just ask us if they may be housed with Angelfish and we'd be glad to tell you. There are New World Cichlids which may be maintained with Angels other than what I've already mentioned, i.e., I'm presently keeping Astatheros oblongus with Angels as well as Australoheros sp. Red Ceibal with Angels, but only one individual each, in different tanks of mature Angelfish. Keeping it down to just one individual of a different Cichlid species, I see no reason why a Firemouth (Thorichthys meeki) Cichlid or a Rainbow (Herotilapia multispinosa) Cichlid couldn't be housed with Angels. The Firemouth is mostly bluff anyway, but neither would have cause to set up a territory without a mate being present. > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@> wrote: > > > > I have to agree with Ray 150% on everything he just said about cichlids, not to mention, as Donna pointed out, the size of tank an oscar would require to stay healthy will far exceed 48 gallons. (Minimum of 90 gallons for 1 adult oscar) Most of the dwarf cichlids, some of which Ray has mentioned (keyhole, etc.) can usually work with angels if the tank is heavily decorated to help avoid issues with territory invasions... but, as Ray pointed out, any cichlid, angels no exception, can become extremely aggressive if/when they begin to spawn. > > > > Aside from personality compatibility it is also important to check environmental compatibility. African cichlids are not compatible with angels, not only due to aggression differences, but also the need for much harder water for the Africans. Central and South American species share more of the same environmental needs as angelfish, with a few exceptions due to temp needs or extremes in soft water needs. Today's "standard angelfish" don't usually thrive at the higher temps needed by discus, nor do they thrive in the very soft water requirements that discus and some of the dwarf cichlid species need. The standard angelfish tend to thrive mostly right down the middle in regards to water hardness... pH of 7.4 - 7.8. This will also depend on where the angelfish have come from (what they were bred and raised in). Some angels can do very well in harder water, up to 8.2 - 8.4 pH, and some can do very well in softer water, down in the 6.8 - 7.0 range. > > > > When looking for tank companions for the fish you are keeping, pay close attention to environmental needs. Most tetras (with a few exceptions such as buenos aires or blue tetras, which are very aggressive or neons and cardinals who often become angel food) will fit nicely with angelfish, as do rainbow fish, (except for the smallest, such as signifer rainbows, who could become angelfish food), and livebearers. Any of the rasbora species that grow to 1.5 or more inches in length can also make great companions to angelfish. If you choose to work with anything under the size of 1.5 - 2 inches as juveniles, be sure to add those fish before the angels and let them mature so they don't become food. Angelfish are notorious for eating tiny tank mates. I keep adult white clouds and gold white clouds as well as zebra danios with my angelfish and they all thrive. I have also had great success mixing giant danios with angelfish over the years. > > > > You have a lot of options, but if you choose to stick with cichlids be prepared with a quarantine tank in case problems develop, which can happen over time. Fish that live peacefully together for the first year or 2 can suddenly become incompatible, seemingly overnight... especially when dealing with cichlids. Many fish, not just cichlids, but especially cichlids, tend to go through behavior/aggression changes when they begin to mature, even if they are not spawning or pairing up. Overall, no matter what fish you decide on, the more heavily decorated the tank, the greater the chances of long term compatibility/success. > > > > For sure, though, along with African cichlids, others to avoid would be red or green terrors, jack dempseys, jaguar cichlids, oscars, convicts, midas cichlids, and red devils. Any/all of those would quickly shred angelfish, and some of them, such as the convicts, can and will do that even if they are small (1 - 2 inches). Most of these fish would also quickly outgrow a 48 gallon tank. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "rookielynn" <rookielynn@> wrote: > > > > > > My partner loves angelfish and I have to say I've become quite fond of them so we're thinking of a ciclid tank. I'm basically ciclid ignorant. > > > > > > Can you keep all ciclids together, some better than others? My partner saw a Tiger Oscar and wants to know if they can go in with angels. Somewhere I read angels and other freshwater OK. That can't be right. > > > > > > Any ciclid sites that can help with this question are also appreciated > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55350	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 8/25/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

--- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > As the average room temperature during the winter is generally considered to be around 70   Wow, if I tried to keep my room temperature around 70 degrees during the winter, I would go broke.  :) > leading to varying efficiencies of the wattage a heater is rating for, with some heaters producing more > heat per Watt and others producing less heat per Watt. The Watt being used is not necessarily always > being used to create the same amount of heat in each different heater, with some of this wattage being > converted into light when the heater element/wire glows a brighter shade of red and vice versa. Sorry Ray, but this is not really correct. Electric heat is 100% efficient. Any electricity used by indicator lights in a heater or "glow" of the elements is insignificant. Your watt and my watt create the same heat. Now if you want to argue that not all "50W" heaters are exactly 50 Watts, then I would agree as the wattage rating is often more of a model number than anything. I am sure the heaters real wattage is probably +/- a watt or two above or below the rated value on the package. But as to heaters from one brand to the next, trying to add to the matter by claiming one manufacturer's "watt" is different than another's is just confusing the issue for someone asking about what size heater to use. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55351	From: Ray	Date: 8/26/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

Patrick, "Average," takes into account room temperatures maintained in a spread of various climates across the country during the winter. A room temperature of 70 o in Virginia would be much easier to maintain there than in Minnesota, and 70 o in Georgia or Florida would be even easier to maintain, but we're talking about "average." From what you're saying, I'd have to gather that you in a colder climate in which it's going to cost you more to maintain any certain degree of heat than it would in more temperate climates. Again -- AVERAGE ! The brightness of the wire glow has a relatively small impact on the amount of electicity that's being used, but still does reduce the amount of electricity that's being converted to heat for the same wattage rating. It takes a certain amount of Watts to create light even if that's not bright white light. The major factor in the variations of what a given size (wattage) heater will produce in actual heat though is the quality of metal that's used in producing the heater element. Inferior and cheaper heaters using inferior metals for their heater elements can produce significant differences in the amount of actual heat expected to be produced when compared to a better one of the same wattage rating. One heater from a superior manufacturer may be able to boost the tank's temperature from 68 o to 86 o, while an inferior manufacturer's heater of the same wattage in the same size tank at the same 68 o ambient temperature may be able to boost this tank's temperature to barely 80 o. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that either the latter manufacturer's heater is not really rated for the full wattage advertised or that much of that wattage is not being converted to heat. With a variation of only + or - a Watt or two above or below the rated value on the package, as you indicate -- and as I'd agree to -- then it's safe to assume it's not wattage rating that's causing this wide difference in the temperature each one is able to produce, if they're both that close, but the material used in the metal that the electrical current passes through in creating this heat. If you haven't seen such a wide variation in temperatures being produced by heaters from different heater manufacturers, then you haven't yet had the chance to use a wide enough variety of heaters to experience these differences. I have, and I've seen first-hand, the wide variations different heaters are capable of producing in the heat they're designed for. It's not a matter of each manufacturer's "Watt" being different, as you state, but a matter of the material being used to create each one's heat. The different heater's Watt rating may be exactly the same, with the same amount of Watts being used by all of them, but it comes down to how much of this wattage is actually being used in creating heat. Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim Jager or Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time and time again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will barely maintain the temperature needed and not near the temperature expected of them. As it's the HEATER that's the most important piece of apparatus used in maintaining tropical fish -- and you can argue that all you want -- it pays to buy the best one can afford as it's cheap insurance in the long run. One wipe out with Ich, or a tank of cooked fish would be proof of that. Yes, we need filters, but they're not essential as we can change water if we need to, but these fish MUST be maintained in a certain temperature range at all times. We don't even need lights to maintain fish, but only to grow plants. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick A. Timlin" <ptimlin@...> wrote: > >  --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Ray <sevenspringss1@> wrote: > > As the average room temperature during the winter is generally considered to be around 70 >   > Wow, if I tried to keep my room temperature around 70 degrees during the winter, I would go broke.  :) > > > leading to varying efficiencies of > the wattage a heater is rating for, with some heaters producing more > > heat per Watt and others producing less heat per Watt. The Watt being > used is not necessarily always > > being used to create the same amount of > heat in each different heater, with some of this wattage being > > converted > into light when the heater element/wire glows a brighter shade of red > and vice versa. > > Sorry Ray, but this is not really correct. > Electric heat is 100% efficient. Any electricity used by indicator > lights in a heater or "glow" of the elements is insignificant. Your watt > and my watt create the same heat. > > Now if you want to argue that > not all "50W" heaters are exactly 50 Watts, then I would agree as the > wattage rating is often more of a model number than anything. I am sure > the heaters real wattage is probably +/- a watt or two above or below > the rated value on the package. > > But as to heaters from one brand > to the next, trying to add to the matter by claiming one manufacturer's > "watt" is different than another's is just confusing the issue for > someone asking about what size heater to use. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55352	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/26/2013
Subject: John's Christmas list.

John dude. I think you'll need to have one of these. So cool. Al. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55353	From: Patrick A. Timlin	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious information} Again -- AVERAGE ! Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > Jager or Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > and time again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > barely maintain the temperature needed and not near the temperature > expected of them.   Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and some of it is just flat out wrong. With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters are 100% efficient. Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all exactly 50W. Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with the water. A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have experienced different heaters having different performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am guessing you didn't. So your observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they say they are. Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and wattage. I know it must really bother you. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55354	From: harry perry	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

You are totally wrong!!!. As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not just the person being replied to. Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about you. Harry ________________________________ From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@...> To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters   Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious information} Again -- AVERAGE ! Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > Jager or Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > and time again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > barely maintain the temperature needed and not near the temperature > expected of them.   Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and some of it is just flat out wrong. With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters are 100% efficient. Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all exactly 50W. Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with the water. A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have experienced different heaters having different performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am guessing you didn't. So your observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they say they are. Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and wattage. I know it must really bother you. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55355	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.

Hi Al, They are fabulous aren't they, make me wish even more that I had a garden! As well as looking amazing the fish seem to have a wonderful time inside & who can blame them-it must be quite amazing for them as well to suddenly realise there is something above the water as well as below. One of my customers is looking to install one of these, if not this year then next Spring I think. I'll post some pictures when it is up & running. John*<o)))<* On 27 August 2013 01:00, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > > John dude. > > I think you'll need to have one of these. So cool. > > Al. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55356	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Off -Topic: Heaters (debate)

Thank you Harry, for clarifying that point for Patrick. This same thought was going through my mind to advise Patrick of, when I saw his post in my mailbox. When I got up here on the Home Page to post a reply, I saw your message here which wasn't yet posted as an email. For Patrick, while you may see my posts as long-winded, overly long replies, I don't need to make it up as I go along as I already know what I want to say in my head -- nor do I need to try to show that I'm much smarter than everyone else. If it appears that I'm trying to impart knowledge to others here who are in need of advice, I tell them everything I know about a topic, keeping in mind that I need to include everyone one else's level of knowledge (or lack of it, on any certain subject), to give as full an explanation as I can to be made clear to everyone. Just as Harry points out, as being a moderator here, I feel I have the obligation to address everyone when I'm answering anyone in particular so that everyone understands the explanation or solution to the problem. They may have the same problem someday, possibly sooner rather than later. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn and you see my posts as self-serving, you're WAY off-base. I welcome any new knowledge that I don't know; thanks for the Joule-per-second instruction. With your attitude however, I almost feel that I don't owe you any explanation, but if you feel my posts are to show how knowledgable I am, you couldn't be further from the truth. My purpose is ONLY to see that hobbyists here seeking needed information succeed in this hobby; my concern is both for the hobbyists and their fishes. If you still feel that I'm putting too much factual information in my posts, maybe you're the one that doesn't know as much and are getting overwhelmed by the info, but I try to make things as easy to understand as possible, for the beginners here as well as for the more advanced. I need to meet everyone at all levels even though only one person is asking; hence my more detailed posts. I continue typing until I'm convinced that I've explained the subject throughly enough so that even the beginner can understand it -- you need to understand that part. For starters, I realize that you must already be fully aware of temperatures across the globe varying, but then when you made your remark about you "going broke" if you kept your house at 70 o, it appeared to me that you may have momentarily let go of that concept in bringing the attention only to your home. Your Smiley Face was not seen -- DID NOT APPEAR ! -- what I saw at the end of that sentence was this -- :) -- a colon and a parenthesis, which meant nothing to me except maybe some inconsequential typo at the end, so I dismissed it. Don't automatically assume things that may or may not actually happen or that others may have experienced something when they didn't. Looks like you're the one who feels the need to show how smart he is. I don't have a problem with learning something that I don't know, but the way you come across here doesn't deserve any further reply but I'll continue regardless. This isn't the first time that you've shown your attitude, and you well know it, but I've tried to overlook it. I won't be maligned though, and you leave me no choice except to try to set you straight. Oh yeah, it was you who brought up the term, "confusing," when saying that "trying to add to the matter by claiming one manufacturer's "watt" is different than another's is just confusing the issue . . . " -- as though this was what I was getting at. I never said that one manufacturer's Watt is different from another's, so I felt maybe you're confused . . . and please don't put words in my mouth; you were insulting ME, if you want to sort out who was getting insulted. "A watt is a watt is a watt" . . . NOW who's being condescending -- and insulting??? Do you take ME for an idiot? While you may not have meant it that way, the whole tone of your message would have me feel you implied it. BTW, the glow of the little red neon indicator light never entered my mind, nor did I ever suggest it affected the wattage. You completely misunderstood me. As you've had your say, and as I replied to this Off-Topic subject, it will not be continued and any other messages on this subject will be deleted before being posted. Thanks for your input though; I hope you can see that I need to include everyone on any one topic, which may make it boring for you. If this was too long, I felt I needed to illustrate exactly where I'm coming from as there are others here who thank me for my help. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not just the person being replied to. > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about you. > > Harry > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@...> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com" <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > >   > Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > Jager or > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > and time > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > barely maintain > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > expected of them. > >   > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and some of it is just flat out wrong. > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters are 100% efficient. > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all exactly 50W. > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with the water. > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have experienced different heaters having different > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am guessing you didn't. So your > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > say they are. > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55357	From: Al Keep	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.

Look forward to seein' that. aaah, I thought you built and maintained ponds... so I guess I just assumed you had one.....lol. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > They are fabulous aren't they, make me wish even more that I had a garden! > As well as looking amazing the fish seem to have a wonderful time inside & > who can blame them-it must be quite amazing for them as well to suddenly > realise there is something above the water as well as below. One of my > customers is looking to install one of these, if not this year then next > Spring I think. I'll post some pictures when it is up & running. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 27 August 2013 01:00, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > > John dude. > > > > I think you'll need to have one of these. So cool. > > > > Al. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55358	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: John's Christmas list.

My tank is my indoor pond-I live in a flat! John*<o)))<* On 28 August 2013 01:13, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > ** > > > Look forward to seein' that. > aaah, I thought you built and maintained ponds... so I guess I just > assumed you had one.....lol. > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Al, > > > > They are fabulous aren't they, make me wish even more that I had a > garden! > > As well as looking amazing the fish seem to have a wonderful time inside > & > > who can blame them-it must be quite amazing for them as well to suddenly > > realise there is something above the water as well as below. One of my > > customers is looking to install one of these, if not this year then next > > Spring I think. I'll post some pictures when it is up & running. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > > > On 27 August 2013 01:00, Al Keep <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > John dude. > > > > > > I think you'll need to have one of these. So cool. > > > > > > Al. > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded > > > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk7rTn8D9bY&feature=player_embedded> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55359	From: Donna Ransome	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the industry with many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. _____ From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harry perry Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters You are totally wrong!!!. As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not just the person being replied to. Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about you. Harry ________________________________ From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@... <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters Ray <sevenspringss1@... <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious information} Again -- AVERAGE ! Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > Jager or Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > and time again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > barely maintain the temperature needed and not near the temperature > expected of them. Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and some of it is just flat out wrong. With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters are 100% efficient. Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all exactly 50W. Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with the water. A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have experienced different heaters having different performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am guessing you didn't. So your observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they say they are. Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and wattage. I know it must really bother you. Patrick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55360	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: Heaters

You got it Donna, I have nothing to be grouchy about. I've loved working with fish most of my life and you can't beat that for happiness no matter how long you've had them or in whatever capacity. I still have a small hatchery going of about 6500 gallons, as a "hobby," and I can't foresee my ever giving it up. Thanks for the support. While you have your facts correct, you had no way of knowing that's only a small part of things. Yes, I've worked with famous importers, but before that, I had my own import business. Also had a tropical fish store for a good while with a partner, but gave that up for my hatchery. Speaking of more famous importers though, I was partners with Jack Freiberg -- probably better known by the Malawi Cichlid, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi being named after him by our exporter at the time on Lake Malawi, Peter Davies. Long story on the naming of that fish. It was first discovered off of Otter Point when Jack was visiting Peter and his wife Hennie at his compound near Cape McClear. Peter first named the fish after his son Trevor, as Trematocranus trevori but both him and his son decided to rename it after Jack, as the business I helped him (Jack) start -- African Fish Imports (in Verona, NJ) -- became one of Peter's best export accounts, if not, THE best account. I don't know if you remember this wholesale outlet we started back in 1971, it was a joy just being there. Not long afterwards, I sent a letter to Pierre Brichard, whom I knew through the ACA. Pierre was one of the charter members of the American Cichlid Association, as was I when I served on the first BOT. To make a long story short, we were one of the first to start importing Tanganyika Cichlids from Pierre, in the Fall of 1971. Can you just imagine the excitement!!! None of these fishes were ever seen before. Some German importers who collected some different species from the opposite shore several years prior to this (yes, I imported from Germany too), caught different species (like Julie ornatus for instance) but these fish we were getting were the first ones out of the Lake. You couldn't ask for anything better as it was just GREAT, for lack of a better word, after seeing some of these fish before then only in books -- some only as line drawings by ichthyologists. I guess you could tell by now, I've enjoyed every one of those unique experiences I've had in the fish industry all through the years, so what's to be grouchy about? While this is only a small part of the much larger tropical fish story that I was part of during the beginnings of the Rift Lake Cichlid introductions, I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I especially enjoyed meeting many of the other people involved in it back then, and still today. Some of my other pleasant times were when I went to Lake Victoria to start getting fish out of there. I was one of the first importers of Lake Victoria Cichlids but this was without Jack, but I'll have to leave it here as that's another story for another time. Could anyone be grouchy after all that (LOL)? A small story on that though. When I first started importing these fish, the exporter was shipping only the (colorful) males -- because he thought they'd sell much better than the silvery females. I had to fly over there to show them what I wanted, and to show them how to distinguish between the females of different species as they all looked the same to the fishermen < g >. Looks like I got too long again here, but I just enjoy the hobby. Hope I've been able to enlighten you a little bit on these more famous people, and a bit of what went on back then. Remind me to tell you about Jack being able to be the first to get Malawi Cichlids from Rich Frazier in Mossambique. The same species (Labeotropheus trewavasae, L. fuelleborni, etc.) from that eastern shore were colored completely different from those same species that were coming out of Monkey Bay -- even more excitement; I've been very thankful for it all. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the industry with > many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the > years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. > > > > _____ > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea > who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone > starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or > rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things > as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not > just the person being replied to. > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about > you. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@... <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > > To: "AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " > <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > Ray <sevenspringss1@... <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious > information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and > going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. > Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the > globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a > tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as > all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you > are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you > simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing > until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > Jager or > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > and time > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > barely maintain > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > expected of them. > > > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply > insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background > tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and > some of it is just flat out wrong. > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into > heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light > are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also > driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters > are 100% efficient. > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will > have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to > produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be > identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. > quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due > to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. > That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an > Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it > to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting > way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if > every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all > exactly 50W. > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of > heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just > designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the > maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some > heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with > the water. > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create > heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have > experienced different heaters having different > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am > guessing you didn't. So your > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > say they are. > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and > wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55361	From: stevebiondi	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: The Best,Ray!!!!

Ray, You are the expert. You never have to justify any thing you recommend. Steve From: Ray Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:45 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters You got it Donna, I have nothing to be grouchy about. I've loved working with fish most of my life and you can't beat that for happiness no matter how long you've had them or in whatever capacity. I still have a small hatchery going of about 6500 gallons, as a "hobby," and I can't foresee my ever giving it up. Thanks for the support. While you have your facts correct, you had no way of knowing that's only a small part of things. Yes, I've worked with famous importers, but before that, I had my own import business. Also had a tropical fish store for a good while with a partner, but gave that up for my hatchery. Speaking of more famous importers though, I was partners with Jack Freiberg -- probably better known by the Malawi Cichlid, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi being named after him by our exporter at the time on Lake Malawi, Peter Davies. Long story on the naming of that fish. It was first discovered off of Otter Point when Jack was visiting Peter and his wife Hennie at his compound near Cape McClear. Peter first named the fish after his son Trevor, as Trematocranus trevori but both him and his son decided to rename it after Jack, as the business I helped him (Jack) start -- African Fish Imports (in Verona, NJ) -- became one of Peter's best export accounts, if not, THE best account. I don't know if you remember this wholesale outlet we started back in 1971, it was a joy just being there. Not long afterwards, I sent a letter to Pierre Brichard, whom I knew through the ACA. Pierre was one of the charter members of the American Cichlid Association, as was I when I served on the first BOT. To make a long story short, we were one of the first to start importing Tanganyika Cichlids from Pierre, in the Fall of 1971. Can you just imagine the excitement!!! None of these fishes were ever seen before. Some German importers who collected some different species from the opposite shore several years prior to this (yes, I imported from Germany too), caught different species (like Julie ornatus for instance) but these fish we were getting were the first ones out of the Lake. You couldn't ask for anything better as it was just GREAT, for lack of a better word, after seeing some of these fish before then only in books -- some only as line drawings by ichthyologists. I guess you could tell by now, I've enjoyed every one of those unique experiences I've had in the fish industry all through the years, so what's to be grouchy about? While this is only a small part of the much larger tropical fish story that I was part of during the beginnings of the Rift Lake Cichlid introductions, I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I especially enjoyed meeting many of the other people involved in it back then, and still today. Some of my other pleasant times were when I went to Lake Victoria to start getting fish out of there. I was one of the first importers of Lake Victoria Cichlids but this was without Jack, but I'll have to leave it here as that's another story for another time. Could anyone be grouchy after all that (LOL)? A small story on that though. When I first started importing these fish, the exporter was shipping only the (colorful) males -- because he thought they'd sell much better than the silvery females. I had to fly over there to show them what I wanted, and to show them how to distinguish between the females of different species as they all looked the same to the fishermen < g >. Looks like I got too long again here, but I just enjoy the hobby. Hope I've been able to enlighten you a little bit on these more famous people, and a bit of what went on back then. Remind me to tell you about Jack being able to be the first to get Malawi Cichlids from Rich Frazier in Mossambique. The same species (Labeotropheus trewavasae, L. fuelleborni, etc.) from that eastern shore were colored completely different from those same species that were coming out of Monkey Bay -- even more excitement; I've been very thankful for it all. Ray --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@...> wrote: > > Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the industry with > many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the > years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. > > > > _____ > > From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of harry perry > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea > who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone > starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or > rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things > as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not > just the person being replied to. > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about > you. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@... <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > > To: "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > Ray <sevenspringss1@... <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious > information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and > going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. > Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the > globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a > tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as > all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you > are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you > simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing > until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > Jager or > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > and time > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > barely maintain > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > expected of them. > > > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply > insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background > tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and > some of it is just flat out wrong. > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into > heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light > are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also > driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters > are 100% efficient. > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will > have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to > produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be > identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. > quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due > to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. > That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an > Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it > to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting > way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if > every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all > exactly 50W. > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of > heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just > designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the > maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some > heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with > the water. > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create > heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have > experienced different heaters having different > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am > guessing you didn't. So your > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > say they are. > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and > wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > Patrick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55362	From: Ray	Date: 8/27/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!

Hi Steve, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I didn't write what you're replying to, to show that I may be knowledgable though, but only to show Donna how much I've enjoyed this hobby all through the years -- and that no one could be grouchy if they were in my shoes. I've learned early on in this hobby, that the more you know, the more you realize that there's all the more you need to know. No one can know all about the hobby, and they're a fool if they say they do. Well, I also wrote some because I like writing about the hobby and the many things I've seen first-hand -- and hoped that some of you would also enjoy hearing about them. Yeah, it's a bit of a change of pace from fishy problems, but it still has to be On-Topic, no? Best regards, Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@...> wrote: > > Ray, > > You are the expert. You never have to justify any thing you recommend. > > Steve > > From: Ray > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:45 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > You got it Donna, I have nothing to be grouchy about. I've loved working with fish most of my life and you can't beat that for happiness no matter how long you've had them or in whatever capacity. I still have a small hatchery going of about 6500 gallons, as a "hobby," and I can't foresee my ever giving it up. > > Thanks for the support. While you have your facts correct, you had no way of knowing that's only a small part of things. Yes, I've worked with famous importers, but before that, I had my own import business. Also had a tropical fish store for a good while with a partner, but gave that up for my hatchery. Speaking of more famous importers though, I was partners with Jack Freiberg -- probably better known by the Malawi Cichlid, Aulonocara jacobfreibergi being named after him by our exporter at the time on Lake Malawi, Peter Davies. > > Long story on the naming of that fish. It was first discovered off of Otter Point when Jack was visiting Peter and his wife Hennie at his compound near Cape McClear. Peter first named the fish after his son Trevor, as Trematocranus trevori but both him and his son decided to rename it after Jack, as the business I helped him (Jack) start -- African Fish Imports (in Verona, NJ) -- became one of Peter's best export accounts, if not, THE best account. I don't know if you remember this wholesale outlet we started back in 1971, it was a joy just being there. Not long afterwards, I sent a letter to Pierre Brichard, whom I knew through the ACA. Pierre was one of the charter members of the American Cichlid Association, as was I when I served on the first BOT. To make a long story short, we were one of the first to start importing Tanganyika Cichlids from Pierre, in the Fall of 1971. > > Can you just imagine the excitement!!! None of these fishes were ever seen before. Some German importers who collected some different species from the opposite shore several years prior to this (yes, I imported from Germany too), caught different species (like Julie ornatus for instance) but these fish we were getting were the first ones out of the Lake. You couldn't ask for anything better as it was just GREAT, for lack of a better word, after seeing some of these fish before then only in books -- some only as line drawings by ichthyologists. I guess you could tell by now, I've enjoyed every one of those unique experiences I've had in the fish industry all through the years, so what's to be grouchy about? > > While this is only a small part of the much larger tropical fish story that I was part of during the beginnings of the Rift Lake Cichlid introductions, I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I especially enjoyed meeting many of the other people involved in it back then, and still today. Some of my other pleasant times were when I went to Lake Victoria to start getting fish out of there. I was one of the first importers of Lake Victoria Cichlids but this was without Jack, but I'll have to leave it here as that's another story for another time. Could anyone be grouchy after all that (LOL)? > > A small story on that though. When I first started importing these fish, the exporter was shipping only the (colorful) males -- because he thought they'd sell much better than the silvery females. I had to fly over there to show them what I wanted, and to show them how to distinguish between the females of different species as they all looked the same to the fishermen < g >. Looks like I got too long again here, but I just enjoy the hobby. Hope I've been able to enlighten you a little bit on these more famous people, and a bit of what went on back then. Remind me to tell you about Jack being able to be the first to get Malawi Cichlids from Rich Frazier in Mossambique. The same species (Labeotropheus trewavasae, L. fuelleborni, etc.) from that eastern shore were colored completely different from those same species that were coming out of Monkey Bay -- even more excitement; I've been very thankful for it all. > > Ray > > --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> wrote: > > > > Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the industry with > > many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the > > years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com] On > > Behalf Of harry perry > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM > > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > > > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no idea > > who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or someone > > starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or > > rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain things > > as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading them not > > just the person being replied to. > > > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't about > > you. > > > > Harry > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@ <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > > > To: "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > Ray <sevenspringss1@ <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded obvious > > information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 and > > going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the line. > > Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and the > > globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people in a > > tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be perceived as > > all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is clear you > > are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you > > simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing > > until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that fact. > > > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > > Jager or > > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > > and time > > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > > barely maintain > > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > > expected of them. > > > > > > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply > > insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my background > > tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about electricity and > > some of it is just flat out wrong. > > > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted into > > heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator light > > are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also > > driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric heaters > > are 100% efficient. > > > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements will > > have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material to > > produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will be > > identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same wattage. > > > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) vs. > > quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to be due > > to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they claim. > > That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where as an > > Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably designed it > > to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are putting > > way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you believe if > > every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all > > exactly 50W. > > > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of > > heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just > > designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the wattage the > > maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so some > > heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact with > > the water. > > > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create > > heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you have > > experienced different heaters having different > > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of all > > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am > > guessing you didn't. So your > > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters are > > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a model > > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > > say they are. > > > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and > > wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > > > Patrick > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55363	From: reneap7040	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: black convict.

Hi. For a week ago I adopted a old Black Convict.He was in bad shape.He was very thin and his fins are shredded.He was in a tank with bigger cichlids that bullied him and ate all the food. I also saw he has Ich.So I raised the Temp.to 87-88. Would that cure the Ich?And how long should I maintain that Temp? He swims around ,is very curious,and eats well.I hear that cichlids dont do well whith salt,so I didnt put any in there.But is it true,that cichlids dont like salt? Rene'.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55364	From: Lynn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro

Hi all, My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping and remember just enough to get myself in trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change the email addy for this list to one more conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your generous supplies of information. I was on an aquarium list in the past and really gained a great deal of knowledge from those more experience. Lynn (old lady :-) At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan >so looking mostly at their products. I am an >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > >Also need a heater.......like an option for >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > >Thank you > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55365	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: black convict.

Hi Rene', Keep an eye on the temperature and don't let it get too high, but you want to be sure that it's at least above a true 86 o. Watch that this fish isn't stress or deprived of enough oxygen; add aeration if you see there's a need for it. Add salt -- one like Diamond Crystal is completely safe as it contains no idodine or anti-caking agents -- and use 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. While the amount of iodine added to some salts is insignificant and not dangerous to fish at this rate, the anti-caking agents used in other salts would be good to avoid. I have no idea where you've ever heard that Cichlids don't do well with salt, although perhaps some of the Dwarfs (like Apistotgramma's may not like a lot). Most New World Cichlids can easily tolerate up to 6 teaspoons per gallon when added progressively (smaller amounts over several days), but as the recommended dosage is a token minimal amount it can be added all at once. I mentioned only New World Cichlids, as this Convict comes from Central America. West African and Asian Cichlids will tolerate about the same amount of salt and Rift Lake Cichlids will do very well even with more -- but of course none need it, especially not that much, and this is only to show that what you heard is nonsense. Your temperatue will most certainly cure Ich, and it needs to be kept at this for at least two days after seeing the last signs of Ich on the fish -- and then, the temperature should be lowered gradually, not just twisting the heater control knob down to 76 o in one shot. The treatment can average about ten days; you'll have to keep watching those white spots. Any partial water changes should not be needed during this period, but if there needs to be one, be sure to use new water of the same temperature. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "reneap7040" <reneap7040@...> wrote: > > Hi. > For a week ago I adopted a old Black Convict.He was in bad shape.He was very thin and his fins are shredded.He was in a tank with bigger cichlids that bullied him and ate all the food. > I also saw he has Ich.So I raised the Temp.to 87-88. > Would that cure the Ich?And how long should I maintain that Temp? > He swims around ,is very curious,and eats well.I hear that cichlids dont do well whith salt,so I didnt put any in there.But is it true,that cichlids dont like salt? > Rene'. >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55366	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro

Hi Lynn, Thanks for signing, it's really appreciated. Yes, I did see your addy, and could have assumed your name was Lynn, but often enough an email name doesn't really reflect the person's real name -- so I'd only be guessing. So, since you've kept tropical a little while back, you're no doubt fairly familiar with this hobby and the maintenance work that goes along with it. Not very much has changed in 15 years, except that there are always a few new fish becoming available. No doubt you've learned that marine fish are much harder to keep than freshwater ones, as I see you've kept some, but I'm sure Dawn could give you some good guidance here. Good to see you still remember things about the hobby. I hope that up until now, we've been able to be helpful to you. Belonging to one of these aquarium lists can be very beneficial to a hobbyist, especially one with not enough experience yet to know what to do in all emergencies; I'm glad you found us. Would we know what list you were on in the past if you described it a bit? Info from groups is like this can be more assured to be accurate than just going up on the 'Net to any site you happen to come up with in a search, as many of those sites may give bogus information. At least on a list (group), if one member posts erroneous info, there's usually someone else who can help out by posting corrections. Best of fishy luck in your hobby! And what's this "old lady" stuff < g >? Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > Hi all, > > My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you > can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish > (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt > at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping > and remember just enough to get myself in > trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to > them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of > which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) > which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall > endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change > the email addy for this list to one more > conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your > generous supplies of information. I was on an > aquarium list in the past and really gained a > great deal of knowledge from those more experience. > > Lynn (old lady :-) > > At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > > > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan > >so looking mostly at their products. I am an > >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter > >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for > >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > >Also need a heater.......like an option for > >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim > >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > >Thank you > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55367	From: Lynn	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: slightly off topic was Clarification/Intro

Hi Ray, Like many fish rookies, I first thought you get a nice aquarium and pop in the fish and "Voila"....instant tranquility. After I killed off my first tank of goldfish, I returned to the lfs and told the guy my story. He replied "They're only goldfish". I was stunned.....goldfish may not be someone's prize fish BUT still I wasn't keen on murdering any fish....ordinary or extraordinary. Two things happened....I found a GREAT local lfs...VERY VERY HELPFUL and I found a yahoo list. I don't recall the name now as it was several years ago....but I quickly learned how to keep my fish alive. Again, thank you all for your kind assistance as I begin, again, proper fishkeeping Lynn Lambert At 02:24 PM 8/28/2013, you wrote: > > >Hi Lynn, > >Thanks for signing, it's really appreciated. >Yes, I did see your addy, and could have assumed >your name was Lynn, but often enough an email >name doesn't really reflect the person's real name -- so I'd only be guessing. > >So, since you've kept tropical a little while >back, you're no doubt fairly familiar with this >hobby and the maintenance work that goes along >with it. Not very much has changed in 15 years, >except that there are always a few new fish >becoming available. No doubt you've learned that >marine fish are much harder to keep than >freshwater ones, as I see you've kept some, but >I'm sure Dawn could give you some good guidance >here. Good to see you still remember things about the hobby. > >I hope that up until now, we've been able to be >helpful to you. Belonging to one of these >aquarium lists can be very beneficial to a >hobbyist, especially one with not enough >experience yet to know what to do in all >emergencies; I'm glad you found us. Would we >know what list you were on in the past if you >described it a bit? Info from groups is like >this can be more assured to be accurate than >just going up on the 'Net to any site you happen >to come up with in a search, as many of those >sites may give bogus information. At least on a >list (group), if one member posts erroneous >info, there's usually someone else who can help out by posting corrections. > >Best of fishy luck in your hobby! And what's this "old lady" stuff < g >? > >Ray > >--- In ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, >Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you > > can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish > > (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt > > at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping > > and remember just enough to get myself in > > trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to > > them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of > > which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) > > which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall > > endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change > > the email addy for this list to one more > > conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your > > generous supplies of information. I was on an > > aquarium list in the past and really gained a > > great deal of knowledge from those more experience. > > > > Lynn (old lady :-) > > > > At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan > > >so looking mostly at their products. I am an > > >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like > filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > > > > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > > > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter > > >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for > > >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > > > >Also need a heater.......like an option for > > >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim > > >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > > > >Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55368	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro

Hi Lynn, Welcome to the group, are you planning on keeping tropical fish again? John On 28 August 2013 19:24, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Lynn, > > Thanks for signing, it's really appreciated. Yes, I did see your addy, and > could have assumed your name was Lynn, but often enough an email name > doesn't really reflect the person's real name -- so I'd only be guessing. > > So, since you've kept tropical a little while back, you're no doubt fairly > familiar with this hobby and the maintenance work that goes along with it. > Not very much has changed in 15 years, except that there are always a few > new fish becoming available. No doubt you've learned that marine fish are > much harder to keep than freshwater ones, as I see you've kept some, but > I'm sure Dawn could give you some good guidance here. Good to see you still > remember things about the hobby. > > I hope that up until now, we've been able to be helpful to you. Belonging > to one of these aquarium lists can be very beneficial to a hobbyist, > especially one with not enough experience yet to know what to do in all > emergencies; I'm glad you found us. Would we know what list you were on in > the past if you described it a bit? Info from groups is like this can be > more assured to be accurate than just going up on the 'Net to any site you > happen to come up with in a search, as many of those sites may give bogus > information. At least on a list (group), if one member posts erroneous > info, there's usually someone else who can help out by posting corrections. > > Best of fishy luck in your hobby! And what's this "old lady" stuff < g >? > > Ray > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you > > can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish > > (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt > > at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping > > and remember just enough to get myself in > > trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to > > them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of > > which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) > > which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall > > endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change > > the email addy for this list to one more > > conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your > > generous supplies of information. I was on an > > aquarium list in the past and really gained a > > great deal of knowledge from those more experience. > > > > Lynn (old lady :-) > > > > At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan > > >so looking mostly at their products. I am an > > >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio > wheels etc. > > > > > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > > > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter > > >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for > > >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > > > >Also need a heater.......like an option for > > >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim > > >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > > > >Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55369	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: slightly off topic was Clarification/Intro

Hi Lynn, You did well to change your LFS if they think that little of an animal's life. Properly housed Goldfish will outlive not just many other types of fish but many pets in general. My 4 are all at or approaching 10 years of age & are still relatively young fish. John*<o)))<* On 28 August 2013 22:45, Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Ray, > > Like many fish rookies, I first thought you get a > nice aquarium and pop in the fish and > "Voila"....instant tranquility. After I killed > off my first tank of goldfish, I returned to the > lfs and told the guy my story. He replied > "They're only goldfish". I was > stunned.....goldfish may not be someone's prize > fish BUT still I wasn't keen on murdering any > fish....ordinary or extraordinary. > > Two things happened....I found a GREAT local > lfs...VERY VERY HELPFUL and I found a yahoo > list. I don't recall the name now as it was > several years ago....but I quickly learned how to keep my fish alive. > > Again, thank you all for your kind assistance as > I begin, again, proper fishkeeping > Lynn Lambert > > At 02:24 PM 8/28/2013, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi Lynn, > > > >Thanks for signing, it's really appreciated. > >Yes, I did see your addy, and could have assumed > >your name was Lynn, but often enough an email > >name doesn't really reflect the person's real name -- so I'd only be > guessing. > > > >So, since you've kept tropical a little while > >back, you're no doubt fairly familiar with this > >hobby and the maintenance work that goes along > >with it. Not very much has changed in 15 years, > >except that there are always a few new fish > >becoming available. No doubt you've learned that > >marine fish are much harder to keep than > >freshwater ones, as I see you've kept some, but > >I'm sure Dawn could give you some good guidance > >here. Good to see you still remember things about the hobby. > > > >I hope that up until now, we've been able to be > >helpful to you. Belonging to one of these > >aquarium lists can be very beneficial to a > >hobbyist, especially one with not enough > >experience yet to know what to do in all > >emergencies; I'm glad you found us. Would we > >know what list you were on in the past if you > >described it a bit? Info from groups is like > >this can be more assured to be accurate than > >just going up on the 'Net to any site you happen > >to come up with in a search, as many of those > >sites may give bogus information. At least on a > >list (group), if one member posts erroneous > >info, there's usually someone else who can help out by posting > corrections. > > > >Best of fishy luck in your hobby! And what's this "old lady" stuff < g >? > > > >Ray > > > >--- In > ><mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com>AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, > >Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you > > > can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish > > > (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt > > > at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping > > > and remember just enough to get myself in > > > trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to > > > them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of > > > which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) > > > which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall > > > endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change > > > the email addy for this list to one more > > > conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your > > > generous supplies of information. I was on an > > > aquarium list in the past and really gained a > > > great deal of knowledge from those more experience. > > > > > > Lynn (old lady :-) > > > > > > At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan > > > >so looking mostly at their products. I am an > > > >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like > > filter cartridges, bio wheels etc. > > > > > > > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > > > > > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter > > > >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for > > > >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > > > > > >Also need a heater.......like an option for > > > >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim > > > >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > > > > > >Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55370	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!

Hi Ray, It was quite shocking to see that email yesterday, especially as the contributors to our group are always so polite. I would just like to say how interesting your posts are, even those about aspects of the hobby that are not relevant to me because I don't think you can ever have enough info on a subject you are interested in. John*<o)))<* On 28 August 2013 06:13, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Steve, > > Thanks for the vote of confidence. I didn't write what you're replying to, > to show that I may be knowledgable though, but only to show Donna how much > I've enjoyed this hobby all through the years -- and that no one could be > grouchy if they were in my shoes. I've learned early on in this hobby, that > the more you know, the more you realize that there's all the more you need > to know. No one can know all about the hobby, and they're a fool if they > say they do. Well, I also wrote some because I like writing about the hobby > and the many things I've seen first-hand -- and hoped that some of you > would also enjoy hearing about them. Yeah, it's a bit of a change of pace > from fishy problems, but it still has to be On-Topic, no? > > Best regards, > > Ray > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@...> wrote: > > > > Ray, > > > > You are the expert. You never have to justify any thing you recommend. > > > > Steve > > > > From: Ray > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:45 PM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > You got it Donna, I have nothing to be grouchy about. I've loved working > with fish most of my life and you can't beat that for happiness no matter > how long you've had them or in whatever capacity. I still have a small > hatchery going of about 6500 gallons, as a "hobby," and I can't foresee my > ever giving it up. > > > > Thanks for the support. While you have your facts correct, you had no > way of knowing that's only a small part of things. Yes, I've worked with > famous importers, but before that, I had my own import business. Also had a > tropical fish store for a good while with a partner, but gave that up for > my hatchery. Speaking of more famous importers though, I was partners with > Jack Freiberg -- probably better known by the Malawi Cichlid, Aulonocara > jacobfreibergi being named after him by our exporter at the time on Lake > Malawi, Peter Davies. > > > > Long story on the naming of that fish. It was first discovered off of > Otter Point when Jack was visiting Peter and his wife Hennie at his > compound near Cape McClear. Peter first named the fish after his son > Trevor, as Trematocranus trevori but both him and his son decided to rename > it after Jack, as the business I helped him (Jack) start -- African Fish > Imports (in Verona, NJ) -- became one of Peter's best export accounts, if > not, THE best account. I don't know if you remember this wholesale outlet > we started back in 1971, it was a joy just being there. Not long > afterwards, I sent a letter to Pierre Brichard, whom I knew through the > ACA. Pierre was one of the charter members of the American Cichlid > Association, as was I when I served on the first BOT. To make a long story > short, we were one of the first to start importing Tanganyika Cichlids from > Pierre, in the Fall of 1971. > > > > Can you just imagine the excitement!!! None of these fishes were ever > seen before. Some German importers who collected some different species > from the opposite shore several years prior to this (yes, I imported from > Germany too), caught different species (like Julie ornatus for instance) > but these fish we were getting were the first ones out of the Lake. You > couldn't ask for anything better as it was just GREAT, for lack of a better > word, after seeing some of these fish before then only in books -- some > only as line drawings by ichthyologists. I guess you could tell by now, > I've enjoyed every one of those unique experiences I've had in the fish > industry all through the years, so what's to be grouchy about? > > > > While this is only a small part of the much larger tropical fish story > that I was part of during the beginnings of the Rift Lake Cichlid > introductions, I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I especially enjoyed > meeting many of the other people involved in it back then, and still today. > Some of my other pleasant times were when I went to Lake Victoria to start > getting fish out of there. I was one of the first importers of Lake > Victoria Cichlids but this was without Jack, but I'll have to leave it here > as that's another story for another time. Could anyone be grouchy after all > that (LOL)? > > > > A small story on that though. When I first started importing these fish, > the exporter was shipping only the (colorful) males -- because he thought > they'd sell much better than the silvery females. I had to fly over there > to show them what I wanted, and to show them how to distinguish between the > females of different species as they all looked the same to the fishermen < > g >. Looks like I got too long again here, but I just enjoy the hobby. Hope > I've been able to enlighten you a little bit on these more famous people, > and a bit of what went on back then. Remind me to tell you about Jack being > able to be the first to get Malawi Cichlids from Rich Frazier in > Mossambique. The same species (Labeotropheus trewavasae, L. fuelleborni, > etc.) from that eastern shore were colored completely different from those > same species that were coming out of Monkey Bay -- even more excitement; > I've been very thankful for it all. > > > > Ray > > > > --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > wrote: > > > > > > Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the > industry with > > > many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the > > > years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of harry perry > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM > > > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > > > > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no > idea > > > who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or > someone > > > starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or > > > rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > > > > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain > things > > > as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading > them not > > > just the person being replied to. > > > > > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't > about > > > you. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@ <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > > > > > To: "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto: > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray <sevenspringss1@ <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > > > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded > obvious > > > information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > > > > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 > and > > > going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the > line. > > > Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and > the > > > globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people > in a > > > tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > > > > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be > perceived as > > > all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > > > > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is > clear you > > > are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you > > > simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing > > > until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that > fact. > > > > > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > > > Jager or > > > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > > > and time > > > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > > > barely maintain > > > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > > > expected of them. > > > > > > > > > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply > > > insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my > background > > > tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about > electricity and > > > some of it is just flat out wrong. > > > > > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted > into > > > heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator > light > > > are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also > > > driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric > heaters > > > are 100% efficient. > > > > > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements > will > > > have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material > to > > > produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will > be > > > identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same > wattage. > > > > > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) > vs. > > > quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to > be due > > > to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they > claim. > > > That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where > as an > > > Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably > designed it > > > to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are > putting > > > way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you > believe if > > > every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all > > > exactly 50W. > > > > > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of > > > heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just > > > designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the > wattage the > > > maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so > some > > > heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact > with > > > the water. > > > > > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create > > > heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you > have > > > experienced different heaters having different > > > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of > all > > > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am > > > guessing you didn't. So your > > > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters > are > > > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a > model > > > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > > > say they are. > > > > > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and > > > wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55371	From: Ray	Date: 8/28/2013
Subject: Re: The Best,Ray!!!!

Hi John, I just hope that you didn't see the reply I felt necessary to post, as being shocking to you. Trusting that's not the case, I feel that I must refuse to comment further about anyone else's emails that you may have found shocking. I'm glad you find my posts interesting when they concern some of the unrealized bits and pieces about the hobby which all helped make for a more complete anthology of it as we know it to evolve to. Whether or not any one facet may be relevant to any individual is immaterial when the whole of them is what you're enjoying today. These different aspects turn out to be totally dependant on each other to the extent that the hobby has advanced to today. Ray --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > It was quite shocking to see that email yesterday, especially as the > contributors to our group are always so polite. I would just like to say > how interesting your posts are, even those about aspects of the hobby that > are not relevant to me because I don't think you can ever have enough info > on a subject you are interested in. > > John*<o)))<* > > > On 28 August 2013 06:13, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Steve, > > > > Thanks for the vote of confidence. I didn't write what you're replying to, > > to show that I may be knowledgable though, but only to show Donna how much > > I've enjoyed this hobby all through the years -- and that no one could be > > grouchy if they were in my shoes. I've learned early on in this hobby, that > > the more you know, the more you realize that there's all the more you need > > to know. No one can know all about the hobby, and they're a fool if they > > say they do. Well, I also wrote some because I like writing about the hobby > > and the many things I've seen first-hand -- and hoped that some of you > > would also enjoy hearing about them. Yeah, it's a bit of a change of pace > > from fishy problems, but it still has to be On-Topic, no? > > > > Best regards, > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <parkpac@> wrote: > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > You are the expert. You never have to justify any thing you recommend. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > From: Ray > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:45 PM > > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > You got it Donna, I have nothing to be grouchy about. I've loved working > > with fish most of my life and you can't beat that for happiness no matter > > how long you've had them or in whatever capacity. I still have a small > > hatchery going of about 6500 gallons, as a "hobby," and I can't foresee my > > ever giving it up. > > > > > > Thanks for the support. While you have your facts correct, you had no > > way of knowing that's only a small part of things. Yes, I've worked with > > famous importers, but before that, I had my own import business. Also had a > > tropical fish store for a good while with a partner, but gave that up for > > my hatchery. Speaking of more famous importers though, I was partners with > > Jack Freiberg -- probably better known by the Malawi Cichlid, Aulonocara > > jacobfreibergi being named after him by our exporter at the time on Lake > > Malawi, Peter Davies. > > > > > > Long story on the naming of that fish. It was first discovered off of > > Otter Point when Jack was visiting Peter and his wife Hennie at his > > compound near Cape McClear. Peter first named the fish after his son > > Trevor, as Trematocranus trevori but both him and his son decided to rename > > it after Jack, as the business I helped him (Jack) start -- African Fish > > Imports (in Verona, NJ) -- became one of Peter's best export accounts, if > > not, THE best account. I don't know if you remember this wholesale outlet > > we started back in 1971, it was a joy just being there. Not long > > afterwards, I sent a letter to Pierre Brichard, whom I knew through the > > ACA. Pierre was one of the charter members of the American Cichlid > > Association, as was I when I served on the first BOT. To make a long story > > short, we were one of the first to start importing Tanganyika Cichlids from > > Pierre, in the Fall of 1971. > > > > > > Can you just imagine the excitement!!! None of these fishes were ever > > seen before. Some German importers who collected some different species > > from the opposite shore several years prior to this (yes, I imported from > > Germany too), caught different species (like Julie ornatus for instance) > > but these fish we were getting were the first ones out of the Lake. You > > couldn't ask for anything better as it was just GREAT, for lack of a better > > word, after seeing some of these fish before then only in books -- some > > only as line drawings by ichthyologists. I guess you could tell by now, > > I've enjoyed every one of those unique experiences I've had in the fish > > industry all through the years, so what's to be grouchy about? > > > > > > While this is only a small part of the much larger tropical fish story > > that I was part of during the beginnings of the Rift Lake Cichlid > > introductions, I've enjoyed every minute of it, and I especially enjoyed > > meeting many of the other people involved in it back then, and still today. > > Some of my other pleasant times were when I went to Lake Victoria to start > > getting fish out of there. I was one of the first importers of Lake > > Victoria Cichlids but this was without Jack, but I'll have to leave it here > > as that's another story for another time. Could anyone be grouchy after all > > that (LOL)? > > > > > > A small story on that though. When I first started importing these fish, > > the exporter was shipping only the (colorful) males -- because he thought > > they'd sell much better than the silvery females. I had to fly over there > > to show them what I wanted, and to show them how to distinguish between the > > females of different species as they all looked the same to the fishermen < > > g >. Looks like I got too long again here, but I just enjoy the hobby. Hope > > I've been able to enlighten you a little bit on these more famous people, > > and a bit of what went on back then. Remind me to tell you about Jack being > > able to be the first to get Malawi Cichlids from Rich Frazier in > > Mossambique. The same species (Labeotropheus trewavasae, L. fuelleborni, > > etc.) from that eastern shore were colored completely different from those > > same species that were coming out of Monkey Bay -- even more excitement; > > I've been very thankful for it all. > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > --- In mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com, Donna Ransome <djransome@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Ray is a member of the fish club near me and has worked in the > > industry with > > > > many a famous importer and won many a prize for his fish over the > > > > years.complete opposite of grouchy, LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:AquaticLife% > > 40yahoogroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of harry perry > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:12 PM > > > > To: mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are totally wrong!!!. > > > > > > > > As a moderator and owner of several groups I can tell you we have no > > idea > > > > who we are posting to. In a group like this it could be a child or > > someone > > > > starting out from scratch without any knowledge of fish keeping or > > > > rudimentary knowledge of the equipment used. > > > > > > > > The best you can do is answer a reply with that in mind and explain > > things > > > > as you go. We look at our replies as if many people are are reading > > them not > > > > just the person being replied to. > > > > > > > > Believe it or not, you are not the whole group and the group isn't > > about > > > > you. > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Patrick A. Timlin <ptimlin@ <mailto:ptimlin%40yahoo.com> > > > > > > > To: "mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> " > > > > <mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com <mailto: > > AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 2:50 PM > > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: Heaters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray <sevenspringss1@ <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> > wrote: > > > > > "Average, " takes into account room temperatures {snip long winded > > obvious > > > > information} Again -- AVERAGE ! > > > > > > > > Settle down Ray. My comment about keeping my house at an average of 70 > > and > > > > going broke was meant as a joke. Hence the little smiley after the > > line. > > > > Clearly I understand that average temperature across the country and > > the > > > > globe vary. I am not an idiot even though you typically talk to people > > in a > > > > tone that would imply that is what you think of everyone. > > > > > > > > You strike me as one of those old grouchy guys that want to be > > perceived as > > > > all knowing and simple can not stand to be corrected. > > > > > > > > Trying to muddle through your (as usual) overly long reply, it is > > clear you > > > > are making it up as you go along trying to keep up that facade that you > > > > simply are much smarter than everyone else and you will not stop typing > > > > until you have convinced yourself that you have convinced us of that > > fact. > > > > > > > > > Metals more conducive to making heat will be more efficient at it. > > > > > Confusing as it still may seem to you, a 50 Watt heater made by let's > > > > > say, Penn Plax (if they're still making heaters) or a cheapo brand, > > > > > just won't create the same amount of heat that a Visi Therm, Eheim > > > > > Jager or > > > > Coabalt Aquatics heater will produce. I've seen this time > > > > > and time > > > > again; the cheap heaters -- of the SAME wattage -- will > > > > > barely maintain > > > > the temperature needed and not near the temperature > > > > > expected of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Statements like "Confusing as it still may seem to you" are simply > > > > insulting. You know nothing about me or my background. However my > > background > > > > tells me you don't know nearly as much as think you do about > > electricity and > > > > some of it is just flat out wrong. > > > > > > > > With an electric heater, all watts used by the device are converted > > into > > > > heat. As I mentioned earlier, the "glow" or the little neon indicator > > light > > > > are insignificant users of electricity. So unless your heater is also > > > > driving a fan or something other than the heating element, electric > > heaters > > > > are 100% efficient. > > > > > > > > Yes, different types of metals and materials used in heating elements > > will > > > > have different properties thus requiring more or less of that material > > to > > > > produce the same wattage as another material. But he heat output will > > be > > > > identical regardless of material used if they designed for the same > > wattage. > > > > > > > > As to cheap brands like Penn Plax (death in a tube waiting to happen) > > vs. > > > > quality brands having different heating abilities, this would have to > > be due > > > > to the cheap heaters simply not being the actual wattage that they > > claim. > > > > That "50W" heater is probably really only, for example, 40watts. Where > > as an > > > > Ebo Jager, for example, if it says 50W you can bet they probably > > designed it > > > > to be within a watt or two of the stated wattage. I think you are > > putting > > > > way too much credit into the "model numbers" of heaters where you > > believe if > > > > every heater manufacturer says "50W" on the package, then they are all > > > > exactly 50W. > > > > > > > > Also one other thing to consider is that almost all the crap brands of > > > > heater are clip-on and not designed to be submersible (they are just > > > > designed to be cheap). So in addition to probably not being the > > wattage the > > > > maker states, these heaters are also partially out of the water, so > > some > > > > heat loss may be through the top potion of the heater not in contact > > with > > > > the water. > > > > > > > > A watt is a watt is a watt and if you are using them strictly to create > > > > heat, then a Joule-per-second of all heaters is identical. Sure, you > > have > > > > experienced different heaters having different > > > > performances. But did you also measure the electrical properties of > > all > > > > those heaters to see if they were actually identical electrically? I am > > > > guessing you didn't. So your > > > > observations are simply that, the observations that not all heaters > > are > > > > what they say they are and the number on the package is more of a > > model > > > > number, just as tank sizes are not exactly the "xx gallon" volume they > > > > say they are. > > > > > > > > Sorry I had to correct your mistaken assumptions about electricity and > > > > wattage. I know it must really bother you. > > > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55372	From: reneap7040	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: black convict.

Hi Ray.Thanks for your reply.I will add salt today. Rene'. --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > Hi Rene', > > Keep an eye on the temperature and don't let it get too high, but you want to be sure that it's at least above a true 86 o. Watch that this fish isn't stress or deprived of enough oxygen; add aeration if you see there's a need for it. Add salt -- one like Diamond Crystal is completely safe as it contains no idodine or anti-caking agents -- and use 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. While the amount of iodine added to some salts is insignificant and not dangerous to fish at this rate, the anti-caking agents used in other salts would be good to avoid. > > I have no idea where you've ever heard that Cichlids don't do well with salt, although perhaps some of the Dwarfs (like Apistotgramma's may not like a lot). Most New World Cichlids can easily tolerate up to 6 teaspoons per gallon when added progressively (smaller amounts over several days), but as the recommended dosage is a token minimal amount it can be added all at once. > > I mentioned only New World Cichlids, as this Convict comes from Central America. West African and Asian Cichlids will tolerate about the same amount of salt and Rift Lake Cichlids will do very well even with more -- but of course none need it, especially not that much, and this is only to show that what you heard is nonsense. > > Your temperatue will most certainly cure Ich, and it needs to be kept at this for at least two days after seeing the last signs of Ich on the fish -- and then, the temperature should be lowered gradually, not just twisting the heater control knob down to 76 o in one shot. The treatment can average about ten days; you'll have to keep watching those white spots. Any partial water changes should not be needed during this period, but if there needs to be one, be sure to use new water of the same temperature. > > Ray > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55373	From: cindy.winter.t21@btinternet.com	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Goldfish ailment...

Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55374	From: Lynn	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Clarification/Intro

Hi John, I am keeping two ciclids presently in a little tank.....probably venturing to a much larger tank and will probably not attempt saltwater though I DO LOVE to go to the lfs and look at them :-) Lynn L At 07:09 PM 8/28/2013, you wrote: >Hi Lynn, > > Welcome to the group, are you planning on keeping tropical fish again? > > John > > >On 28 August 2013 19:24, Ray <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Hi Lynn, > > > > Thanks for signing, it's really appreciated. Yes, I did see your addy, and > > could have assumed your name was Lynn, but often enough an email name > > doesn't really reflect the person's real name -- so I'd only be guessing. > > > > So, since you've kept tropical a little while back, you're no doubt fairly > > familiar with this hobby and the maintenance work that goes along with it. > > Not very much has changed in 15 years, except that there are always a few > > new fish becoming available. No doubt you've learned that marine fish are > > much harder to keep than freshwater ones, as I see you've kept some, but > > I'm sure Dawn could give you some good guidance here. Good to see you still > > remember things about the hobby. > > > > I hope that up until now, we've been able to be helpful to you. Belonging > > to one of these aquarium lists can be very beneficial to a hobbyist, > > especially one with not enough experience yet to know what to do in all > > emergencies; I'm glad you found us. Would we know what list you were on in > > the past if you described it a bit? Info from groups is like this can be > > more assured to be accurate than just going up on the 'Net to any site you > > happen to come up with in a search, as many of those sites may give bogus > > information. At least on a list (group), if one member posts erroneous > > info, there's usually someone else who can help out by posting corrections. > > > > Best of fishy luck in your hobby! And what's this "old lady" stuff < g >? > > > > Ray > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Lynn <rookielynn@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > My name is Lynn....my email is rookielynn as you > > > can see. I'm female, 63 yrs. old, have kept fish > > > (tropical) about 15 yrs. ago. 1 failed attempt > > > at saltwater. I'm getting back into fish keeping > > > and remember just enough to get myself in > > > trouble. Some of my emails have a signature to > > > them (I have a crazy amount of emails most of > > > which are derivations of my name, Lynn Lambert) > > > which is why I didn't sign my posts. I shall > > > endeavor to sign my posts to this list OR change > > > the email addy for this list to one more > > > conducive to recognition. Thank you all for your > > > generous supplies of information. I was on an > > > aquarium list in the past and really gained a > > > great deal of knowledge from those more experience. > > > > > > Lynn (old lady :-) > > > > > > At 10:09 AM 8/24/2013, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >We're getting a new tank....I'm a marineland fan > > > >so looking mostly at their products. I am an > > > >"ease of maintenance" affecionado and like filter cartridges, bio > > wheels etc. > > > > > > > >What do you all recommend for a freshwater 48gallon tank? > > > > > > > >Marineland is recommending an internal filter > > > >20i? something like that. Sounds like a pain for > > > >maintenance but I'm open to suggestions > > > > > > > >Also need a heater.......like an option for > > > >adjusting if I get Ich. Currently have an eheim > > > >but can't read the top and nearly cooked the aquakids :-( tsk tsk > > > > > > > >Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------------------ > >AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > >Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. >·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> >PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all >TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if >CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message >MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- ><º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. >We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > >If you do not want all of the groups emails, >instead of unsubscribing, you can change your >delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. > >Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to >receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > >Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for >the No E-Mail option where you will still be >able to read messages on the group and post replies. > >Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to >receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55375	From: tattsmc	Date: 8/29/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

I looked at the photos and it looks like a scab, like its shedding a scale. Does he rub the sides of the tank like hes trying to rub it off? Then that would suggest a parasite or fungus. tatts From: cindy.winter.t21@... Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:50 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment... Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55376	From: cindy.winter.t21@btinternet.com	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Hi Tatts, Thanks for replying. A scale is a thought. No signs of him trying to rub it off though. It really is a mystery... Regards, Cindy --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "tattsmc" <tattsmc@...> wrote: > > I looked at the photos and it looks like a scab, like its shedding a scale. Does he rub the sides of the tank like hes trying to rub it off? Then that would suggest a parasite or fungus. > tatts > > > From: cindy.winter.t21@... > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:50 PM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment... > > > > Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55377	From: Noura T.	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Emergency Plan

I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55378	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Noura, I see no need for you to apologize here for something you feel you must do if and when that time ever comes. Any humane end to your fishes, should it ever become necessary, would be much better than prolonged suffering. We understand some of your plight, and sympathize with you for all the turmoil that's going on in your country. The news of this war is being broadcast on television almost every day, and my thoughts have been of your welfare in your dangerous situation. I hope these battles remain far away from your area. Since you may not have time to use clove oil or to put the fish in the freezer in a container of water, I must admit that I'm in unchartered waters here when it comes to euthanizing your fish so quickly. While the addition of liquid bleach or bottled household ammonia to their water would surely dispatch them in short time, I feel that these products may burn their gills causing them to suffer for those few minutes. Instead, a toxin that would promote no suffering and still be fast at the same time would probably be the best method to use, or at least one of the best -- unless another member here can suggest something better -- and I'm certainly open to any other suggestions. My recommendation, but depending on others' opinion(s) -- would be to overdose with a toxic medication that they would not feel, IF you can get it (and I know there are many meds you can't get there) -- and I'm thinking of one that contains copper as that metal is highly toxic to fish in larger amounts. For this, I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper. Normally it's safe for most fishes at it's recommended dose, except for the scaleless species. While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication. This will reduce this compound to Cu+ (Cu is the chemical abbreviation for copper), eliminating the organic amine, and making this medication 10 times more toxic than it ordinarily is when used for parasites, etc. This should be fairly quick, painless and free of suffering. Seachem also makes a product called Cuprasorb, which is very aggressive at removing this medication, so if you've already added the medication but found at the last minute that it was unnecessary to do so, the toxicity can be reversed if this second product is used immediately. Salt is not really toxic, but most freshwater fishes can tolerate just so much. After reaching that point to where the fish can't tolerate any more salt, they'll decline slowly. Salt, in higher concentrations, will dehydrate freshwater fishes -- pulling water out of them through their gills. It certainly doesn't dry them out completely, and not even close to it, but enough so that it starts shutting down their organ functions. I don't believe this happens very fast though, although -- and I'm not sure, so maybe Dawn or someone else can help me out -- it may put them to sleep at this point, which would be much better. Another resort to keep in mind if Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate -- a blue-green crystaline substance which is used to dye textiles as one of it's uses. I have about a pound of it here that my grandmother used to use 70 or 80 years ago, and could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport. You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. Anyone else have another suggestion on what to use? Ray In a message dated 8/30/2013 9:10:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, n-ocean@... writes: I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55379	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Noura, Reading through your email makes me realise just how very lucky all of us are who live in peaceful regions, we bicker & moan about such trivial things like our mobile phones running out of credit or someone cutting us up at a road junction on the way home from work & taking our easy lifestyle for granted while you are having to make such a heart-rending descision for the welfare of your beloved pets in what must be a terrible situation. You are an inspiration to us all. You say that you will not have time to use clove oil but I wonder if it would be possible to actually dose your tanks with enough of it to put them all to sleep-if you already had enough of the clove oil & containers to mix it with water in then it surely would be a quick method? Can you readily get hold of clove oil? I have no idea how much you would need but when I have to euthanise fish [happily not very often] I use around 20 drops in a gallon or so & add more should it be necessary & this is usually for larger fish than yours. Perhaps Ray or one of the the others could comment on this as it is merely a suggestion & I have no idea how it would work in practice. Hang in there sweetheart, hopefully you will never have to put this into practice. John*<o)))< * On 30 August 2013 16:09, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi Noura, > > I see no need for you to apologize here for something you feel you must do > if and when that time ever comes. Any humane end to your fishes, should > it ever become necessary, would be much better than prolonged suffering. > We > understand some of your plight, and sympathize with you for all the > turmoil that's going on in your country. The news of this war is being > broadcast > on television almost every day, and my thoughts have been of your welfare > in your dangerous situation. I hope these battles remain far away from > your area. > > Since you may not have time to use clove oil or to put the fish in the > freezer in a container of water, I must admit that I'm in unchartered > waters > here when it comes to euthanizing your fish so quickly. While the addition > of liquid bleach or bottled household ammonia to their water would surely > dispatch them in short time, I feel that these products may burn their > gills > causing them to suffer for those few minutes. Instead, a toxin that would > promote no suffering and still be fast at the same time would probably be > the best method to use, or at least one of the best -- unless another > member here can suggest something better -- and I'm certainly open to any > other > suggestions. > > My recommendation, but depending on others' opinion(s) -- would be to > overdose with a toxic medication that they would not feel, IF you can get > it > (and I know there are many meds you can't get there) -- and I'm thinking > of > one that contains copper as that metal is highly toxic to fish in larger > amounts. For this, I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is > an > organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper. Normally it's safe for > most fishes at it's recommended dose, except for the scaleless species. > While > you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how > much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med > becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the > same time you add this medication. This will reduce this compound to Cu+ > (Cu is the chemical abbreviation for copper), eliminating the organic > amine, > and making this medication 10 times more toxic than it ordinarily is when > used for parasites, etc. This should be fairly quick, painless and free of > suffering. Seachem also makes a product called Cuprasorb, which is very > aggressive at removing this medication, so if you've already added the > medication but found at the last minute that it was unnecessary to do so, > the > toxicity can be reversed if this second product is used immediately. > > Salt is not really toxic, but most freshwater fishes can tolerate just so > much. After reaching that point to where the fish can't tolerate any more > salt, they'll decline slowly. Salt, in higher concentrations, will > dehydrate freshwater fishes -- pulling water out of them through their > gills. It > certainly doesn't dry them out completely, and not even close to it, but > enough so that it starts shutting down their organ functions. I don't > believe this happens very fast though, although -- and I'm not sure, so > maybe > Dawn or someone else can help me out -- it may put them to sleep at this > point, which would be much better. > > Another resort to keep in mind if Cupramine can't be located might be to > try looking for Copper Nitrate -- a blue-green crystaline substance which > is > used to dye textiles as one of it's uses. I have about a pound of it here > that my grandmother used to use 70 or 80 years ago, and could send you > some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport. > > You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my > prayers to get safely through this. > > Anyone else have another suggestion on what to use? > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/30/2013 9:10:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > n-ocean@... writes: > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55380	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

electricity? you would need a generator though if the hydro went out, or maybe a car battery? I will pray for you and your fish as well Noura... the news is full of the happenings there. Britain has said it will not do anything, so the U.S. may have to go it alone if they feel they must... very difficult situation. Al.   --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Noura, I see no need for you to apologize here for something you feel you must do if and when that time ever comes. Any humane end to your fishes, should it ever become necessary, would be much better than prolonged suffering. We understand some of your plight, and sympathize with you for all the turmoil that's going on in your country. The news of this war is being broadcast on television almost every day, and my thoughts have been of your welfare in your dangerous situation. I hope these battles remain far away from your area. Since you may not have time to use clove oil or to put the fish in the freezer in a container of water, I must admit that I'm in unchartered waters here when it comes to euthanizing your fish so quickly. While the addition of liquid bleach or bottled household ammonia to their water would surely dispatch them in short time, I feel that these products may burn their gills causing them to suffer for those few minutes. Instead, a toxin that would promote no suffering and still be fast at the same time would probably be the best method to use, or at least one of the best -- unless another member here can suggest something better -- and I'm certainly open to any other suggestions. My recommendation, but depending on others' opinion(s) -- would be to overdose with a toxic medication that they would not feel, IF you can get it (and I know there are many meds you can't get there) -- and I'm thinking of one that contains copper as that metal is highly toxic to fish in larger amounts. For this, I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper. Normally it's safe for most fishes at it's recommended dose, except for the scaleless species. While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication. This will reduce this compound to Cu+ (Cu is the chemical abbreviation for copper), eliminating the organic amine, and making this medication 10 times more toxic than it ordinarily is when used for parasites, etc. This should be fairly quick, painless and free of suffering. Seachem also makes a product called Cuprasorb, which is very aggressive at removing this medication, so if you've already added the medication but found at the last minute that it was unnecessary to do so, the toxicity can be reversed if this second product is used immediately. Salt is not really toxic, but most freshwater fishes can tolerate just so much. After reaching that point to where the fish can't tolerate any more salt, they'll decline slowly. Salt, in higher concentrations, will dehydrate freshwater fishes -- pulling water out of them through their gills. It certainly doesn't dry them out completely, and not even close to it, but enough so that it starts shutting down their organ functions. I don't believe this happens very fast though, although -- and I'm not sure, so maybe Dawn or someone else can help me out -- it may put them to sleep at this point, which would be much better. Another resort to keep in mind if Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate -- a blue-green crystaline substance which is used to dye textiles as one of it's uses. I have about a pound of it here that my grandmother used to use 70 or 80 years ago, and could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport. You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. Anyone else have another suggestion on what to use? Ray In a message dated 8/30/2013 9:10:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, n-ocean@... writes: I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55381	From: harry perry	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: New group format.

Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55382	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Hi Cindy, I thought I had replied to you earlier, but I see I hadn't. So, trying to diagnose what this lump might be (or might have been), is really a bit difficult as it could be a number of different things -- just as you've had four different "explanations" from different shops. As whatever caused it may be underneath the skin, it's like a doctor trying to guess at what's causing a lump before taking an Xray. If there's something under the skin, it's hidden and could be a number of things that have already been mentioned. I'm glad to read that whatever it is, it's shrinking. This could mean that it's nothing serious, or maybe no longer serious even if it were an ulcer. While your medications are non-specific in treating any certain maladies, they seem to be addressing the issue in any case unless this is just coincidental. You'd probably do best with continuing this same treatment until this lump is gone completely. On another note, while I don't mean to upset the apple-cart, and while your fishes seem to be doing fine otherwise -- for these past seven years -- I feel I need to tell you that since goldfish are really more of a pond fish rather than an aquarium fish (even though many keep them in aquaria), these three goldfish (plus one Pleco) really need more room than a 90 Litre (23.78 U.S. Gallon) tank to have sufficient room to grow. Straight-tail goldfish -- if that's what you have -- have the possiblity of reaching from between 12" and 14" in length They're really pond fish, unless the hobbyist has an exceptionally large tank to ensure they'll reach their full potential of reaching their full size. Each one should have almost 75 gallons (284 Litres) each for them to reach this size and they can live for at least 20 years or more. To keep them confined to a small tank such as the one you described is to restrict their growth so that they attain only a portion of what they're able to grow to. While I'm not at all degrading you for possibly stunting them (many hobbyists have the idea that goldfish don't get any larger than a fish that's able to be kept in a smallish tank or even a goldfish bowl) I would please like you to know that not supplying these fish larger enough quarters to ensure that they thrive and prosper (that they'll reach at least 12" in length), may well compromise their health because of this unrealized restriction, causing prolonged stress in the fish. This may be why the one fish developed what may be an ulcer, but of course that can't be known for sure, but any degree of stunting can cause health issues and I have to doubt that these fish have reached even half their normal full grown size or they couldn't all be maintained in a 90 Litre tank. While you haven't mentioned what kind of Pleco you have, the most common ones will normally reach up to at least 18" or more, and really need a minimum of about 190 Litres just for themselves, with 280 Liters being more comfortable in affording the fish more room to swim. If, however, you have one of the Bushy-Nosed Plecos, they only reach a length of able 6" or so, and will do just fine in about 10 gallons (of their own) with being housed in a much larger tank when included with other fish -- which would reach the size of pond fish. I bring this up only to illustrate that these fishes' confinement in too small of a tank to allow them to grow to their natural size may be the cause of this issue, even while you were unaware of their full needs. I do regret I really can't pinpoint the cause of this issue though. Ray In a message dated 8/29/2013 4:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cindy.winter.t21@... writes: Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55383	From: harry perry	Date: 8/30/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Ray      I changed the photo on our home page. Harry ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment...   Hi Cindy, I thought I had replied to you earlier, but I see I hadn't. So, trying to diagnose what this lump might be (or might have been), is really a bit difficult as it could be a number of different things -- just as you've had four different "explanations" from different shops. As whatever caused it may be underneath the skin, it's like a doctor trying to guess at what's causing a lump before taking an Xray. If there's something under the skin, it's hidden and could be a number of things that have already been mentioned. I'm glad to read that whatever it is, it's shrinking. This could mean that it's nothing serious, or maybe no longer serious even if it were an ulcer. While your medications are non-specific in treating any certain maladies, they seem to be addressing the issue in any case unless this is just coincidental. You'd probably do best with continuing this same treatment until this lump is gone completely. On another note, while I don't mean to upset the apple-cart, and while your fishes seem to be doing fine otherwise -- for these past seven years -- I feel I need to tell you that since goldfish are really more of a pond fish rather than an aquarium fish (even though many keep them in aquaria), these three goldfish (plus one Pleco) really need more room than a 90 Litre (23.78 U.S. Gallon) tank to have sufficient room to grow. Straight-tail goldfish -- if that's what you have -- have the possiblity of reaching from between 12" and 14" in length They're really pond fish, unless the hobbyist has an exceptionally large tank to ensure they'll reach their full potential of reaching their full size. Each one should have almost 75 gallons (284 Litres) each for them to reach this size and they can live for at least 20 years or more. To keep them confined to a small tank such as the one you described is to restrict their growth so that they attain only a portion of what they're able to grow to. While I'm not at all degrading you for possibly stunting them (many hobbyists have the idea that goldfish don't get any larger than a fish that's able to be kept in a smallish tank or even a goldfish bowl) I would please like you to know that not supplying these fish larger enough quarters to ensure that they thrive and prosper (that they'll reach at least 12" in length), may well compromise their health because of this unrealized restriction, causing prolonged stress in the fish. This may be why the one fish developed what may be an ulcer, but of course that can't be known for sure, but any degree of stunting can cause health issues and I have to doubt that these fish have reached even half their normal full grown size or they couldn't all be maintained in a 90 Litre tank. While you haven't mentioned what kind of Pleco you have, the most common ones will normally reach up to at least 18" or more, and really need a minimum of about 190 Litres just for themselves, with 280 Liters being more comfortable in affording the fish more room to swim. If, however, you have one of the Bushy-Nosed Plecos, they only reach a length of able 6" or so, and will do just fine in about 10 gallons (of their own) with being housed in a much larger tank when included with other fish -- which would reach the size of pond fish. I bring this up only to illustrate that these fishes' confinement in too small of a tank to allow them to grow to their natural size may be the cause of this issue, even while you were unaware of their full needs. I do regret I really can't pinpoint the cause of this issue though. Ray In a message dated 8/29/2013 4:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cindy.winter.t21@... writes: Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55384	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi Harry, A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55385	From: harry perry	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi John,      Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room for more advertising. We shall see. Not much we can do about it.  Communication is pretty much one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care what we think. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. Hi Harry,   A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55386	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Agreed, I'm sure everyone will get used to the new layout & it's functions in time. John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 11:00, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > > Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided > it knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make > room for more advertising. > > We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much > one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care > what we think. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > > Hi Harry, > > A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was > some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess > it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that > isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the > photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing > site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a > specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & > downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one > particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will > > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife � A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ���`�.��.><((((�>.���`�.��.���`�.�><((((�> �.���`�.�. , .���`�..><((((�> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <�((((><.���`�.��.���`�.�<�((((><�.���`�.�. , .���`�..<�((((><���`�.��. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email > > Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55387	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Harry, Your Betta pic is a vast improvement over the test tubes! Good thinking. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 1:33:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes: Ray I changed the photo on our home page. Harry ________________________________ From: "_sevenspringss1@..._ (mailto:sevenspringss1@...) " <_sevenspringss1@..._ (mailto:sevenspringss1@...) > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment... Hi Cindy, I thought I had replied to you earlier, but I see I hadn't. So, trying to diagnose what this lump might be (or might have been), is really a bit difficult as it could be a number of different things -- just as you've had four different "explanations" from different shops. As whatever caused it may be underneath the skin, it's like a doctor trying to guess at what's causing a lump before taking an Xray. If there's something under the skin, it's hidden and could be a number of things that have already been mentioned. I'm glad to read that whatever it is, it's shrinking. This could mean that it's nothing serious, or maybe no longer serious even if it were an ulcer. While your medications are non-specific in treating any certain maladies, they seem to be addressing the issue in any case unless this is just coincidental. You'd probably do best with continuing this same treatment until this lump is gone completely. On another note, while I don't mean to upset the apple-cart, and while your fishes seem to be doing fine otherwise -- for these past seven years -- I feel I need to tell you that since goldfish are really more of a pond fish rather than an aquarium fish (even though many keep them in aquaria), these three goldfish (plus one Pleco) really need more room than a 90 Litre (23.78 U.S. Gallon) tank to have sufficient room to grow. Straight-tail goldfish -- if that's what you have -- have the possiblity of reaching from between 12" and 14" in length They're really pond fish, unless the hobbyist has an exceptionally large tank to ensure they'll reach their full potential of reaching their full size. Each one should have almost 75 gallons (284 Litres) each for them to reach this size and they can live for at least 20 years or more. To keep them confined to a small tank such as the one you described is to restrict their growth so that they attain only a portion of what they're able to grow to. While I'm not at all degrading you for possibly stunting them (many hobbyists have the idea that goldfish don't get any larger than a fish that's able to be kept in a smallish tank or even a goldfish bowl) I would please like you to know that not supplying these fish larger enough quarters to ensure that they thrive and prosper (that they'll reach at least 12" in length), may well compromise their health because of this unrealized restriction, causing prolonged stress in the fish. This may be why the one fish developed what may be an ulcer, but of course that can't be known for sure, but any degree of stunting can cause health issues and I have to doubt that these fish have reached even half their normal full grown size or they couldn't all be maintained in a 90 Litre tank. While you haven't mentioned what kind of Pleco you have, the most common ones will normally reach up to at least 18" or more, and really need a minimum of about 190 Litres just for themselves, with 280 Liters being more comfortable in affording the fish more room to swim. If, however, you have one of the Bushy-Nosed Plecos, they only reach a length of able 6" or so, and will do just fine in about 10 gallons (of their own) with being housed in a much larger tank when included with other fish -- which would reach the size of pond fish. I bring this up only to illustrate that these fishes' confinement in too small of a tank to allow them to grow to their natural size may be the cause of this issue, even while you were unaware of their full needs. I do regret I really can't pinpoint the cause of this issue though. Ray In a message dated 8/29/2013 4:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _cindy.winter.t21@..._ (mailto:cindy.winter.t21@...) writes: Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55388	From: Devgiri Prasad	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest river,lake, stream or what ever. ________________________________ From: Noura T. <n-ocean@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan   I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55389	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Devgiri, You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could become an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their breeding. They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are foreign to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish to survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, devgiriprasad@... writes: Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest river,lake, stream or what ever. ________________________________ From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55390	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Noura, I am very sorry to hear of your situation and pray that you never find a need to go through with this emergency plan.  However, if you must, John is actually starting down the correct path of advice here with the clove oil overdose as a quick sedative.  Clove oil is something we use as an anesthetic for performing surgery on fish but it needs to be done very carefully because too much means a certain death.  This is, however, painless, especially compared to using something such as copper.  Copper affects the nervous system and will cause things such as seizures and etc. as the effects take place and will amount to a great deal of suffering.  As Ray has pointed out that salt will dehydrate the fish, I'd like to suggest a combination of a LARGE amount of salt, such as 1 cup per gallon of water, combined with the clove oil.  Let me explain the procedure. Start by dosing the clove oil at 10 drops per gallon.  To make this procedure faster for you, you may want to get a few small glass containers with lids that will seal them tightly and figure out the dosage ahead of time, and dose each jar with the appropriate amount of clove oil per tank, mark each jar, and set them off in a safe place for future use if needed.  If/when the time comes, simply submerge each jar in the correct tank and swish for a moment to mix the oil into the tank water.  This should quickly put the fish to sleep. (1 - 2 minutes)  Once the oil is dosed, 1 cup per gallon of tank water (yes, I know this is a lot) of salt will make the concentration double that of sea water, and thus will euthanize the fish quickly while at the same time painlessly.  At that high concentration of salt their organs would shut down almost instantly.  This is the fastest, most humane method there is to euthanize those species of fish in such a short period of time.  You could, if you desire, also measure out the correct amount of salt for each tank and set it aside with the clove oil in preparation for a quick reaction if you should get the call to evacuate.  Just don't store the clove oil and salt together in advance as this will not have the same effect as dosing the clove oil and salt separately as I explained above.  1 word of caution for you.  If you should use the clove oil or the copper as methods to euthanize these fish, please be aware that those tanks will no longer be safe to put fish into in the future.  There is nothing, including bleach, that will completely remove the residue left behind by either of those things.  Salt could be rinsed out and cleaned later, but both clove oil and copper will remain on the glass and in the silicone seams as well as on any plastic surface permanently once it is used.  Both of those substances would render these tanks completely useless for keeping any live aquatic animal in them, permanently, so in the future you would need to start with new tanks if you wished to start up your fish keeping again at a later date. I will pray for you that it never needs to come to this and that the situation in Syria comes to a quick and peaceful end for all.  I, too, have been following the daily reports on tv here in the States and find it very disturbing & distressing.  I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to live with such fear.  I am very sorry for you.  :-(  I wish you and your family and all others in Syria the best of luck. Dawn  --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Devgiri, You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could become an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their breeding. They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are foreign to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish to survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, devgiriprasad@... writes: Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest river,lake, stream or what ever. ________________________________ From: Noura T. < _n-ocean@... _ (mailto: n-ocean@... ) > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55391	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Dawn, Thanks very much for your input into this topic as I requested, and for your clarification of the effects that copper will have on the nervous system. I was unsure of these effects, and so, asked for further comment on this method but I didn't see many other alternatives since Noura felt that Clove Oil was not convenient for her. I didn't look at it more closely, although perhaps it might also be expensive in Syria, but if not I see no reason why it couldn't work as you describe. I wouldn't have thought of using that high of concentration of salt, of one cup per gallon, but if that doesn't put an animal out in short time nothing will. As most freshwater fishes can't tolerate much more than 8 teaspoons of salt per gallon (many easily will tolerate 6 tps. per gallon), I'd estimate that half a cup of salt per gallon should be more than enough, but even more yet can only be better < g >; (quicker?) Yes, the fact that the copper (as well as clove oil) would be absorbed into the silicone was ever-present in the back of my mind as I wrote my reply, but I had preferred to concentrate on the issue at hand in having a plan to quickly dispatch these fish, if the situation every necessitated it. With the compromised safety of the silicone and the setting of these tanks back up afterwards being an afterthought, the intention here was to have been to advise Noura how to reseal the tanks for use after removing the sealant, but that would be a long way down the road after her return from evacuation which is hoped never needs to happen. With clove oil, the tanks may still be useful but not without work, although there's that point you bring out of the oil (possibly?) clinging to the glass. Would there be something -- like perhaps rubbing alcohol -- that might remove it so that new tanks wouldn't need to be bought? I'm thinking that might be worth a try; what's your take on that? I'd imagine that new tanks would have to be expensive in Syria. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 12:13:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: Noura, I am very sorry to hear of your situation and pray that you never find a need to go through with this emergency plan. However, if you must, John is actually starting down the correct path of advice here with the clove oil overdose as a quick sedative. Clove oil is something we use as an anesthetic for performing surgery on fish but it needs to be done very carefully because too much means a certain death. This is, however, painless, especially compared to using something such as copper. Copper affects the nervous system and will cause things such as seizures and etc. as the effects take place and will amount to a great deal of suffering. As Ray has pointed out that salt will dehydrate the fish, I'd like to suggest a combination of a LARGE amount of salt, such as 1 cup per gallon of water, combined with the clove oil. Let me explain the procedure. Start by dosing the clove oil at 10 drops per gallon. To make this procedure faster for you, you may want to get a few small glass containers with lids that will seal them tightly and figure out the dosage ahead of time, and dose each jar with the appropriate amount of clove oil per tank, mark each jar, and set them off in a safe place for future use if needed. If/when the time comes, simply submerge each jar in the correct tank and swish for a moment to mix the oil into the tank water. This should quickly put the fish to sleep. (1 - 2 minutes) Once the oil is dosed, 1 cup per gallon of tank water (yes, I know this is a lot) of salt will make the concentration double that of sea water, and thus will euthanize the fish quickly while at the same time painlessly. At that high concentration of salt their organs would shut down almost instantly. This is the fastest, most humane method there is to euthanize those species of fish in such a short period of time. You could, if you desire, also measure out the correct amount of salt for each tank and set it aside with the clove oil in preparation for a quick reaction if you should get the call to evacuate. Just don't store the clove oil and salt together in advance as this will not have the same effect as dosing the clove oil and salt separately as I explained above. 1 word of caution for you. If you should use the clove oil or the copper as methods to euthanize these fish, please be aware that those tanks will no longer be safe to put fish into in the future. There is nothing, including bleach, that will completely remove the residue left behind by either of those things. Salt could be rinsed out and cleaned later, but both clove oil and copper will remain on the glass and in the silicone seams as well as on any plastic surface permanently once it is used. Both of those substances would render these tanks completely useless for keeping any live aquatic animal in them, permanently, so in the future you would need to start with new tanks if you wished to start up your fish keeping again at a later date. I will pray for you that it never needs to come to this and that the situation in Syria comes to a quick and peaceful end for all. I, too, have been following the daily reports on tv here in the States and find it very disturbing & distressing. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to live with such fear. I am very sorry for you. :-( I wish you and your family and all others in Syria the best of luck. Dawn --- In _aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com) , <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Devgiri, You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could become an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their breeding. They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are foreign to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish to survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, devgiriprasad@... writes: Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest river,lake, stream or what ever. ________________________________ From: Noura T. < _n-ocean@... _ (mailto: n-ocean@... ) > To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55392	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Ray, in regards to the clove oil, even alcohol doesn't cut it.  Sorry, I know that's not what everyone wants to hear... :-(  Use of clove oil here for surgical procedures is limited specifically to a couple of tanks designated just for that purpose, nothing else is allowed in them.  My first experience with clove oil yrs ago had me thinking the same thing you mentioned... something must work to remove it... so I tried, and tried, and tried again... everything I could think of or find because I didn't want to sacrifice those tanks.  Nothing worked.  The odor and residue remained in spite of all efforts to remove it and any fish put into the tanks after attempts of cleaning went through the antithetic process though not as thoroughly as happened for surgical procedures... it still affected them.  I wouldn't dare try it on a small fish because the effects take hold much faster even just from the residual oil.  It's some nasty stuff.  The other thing I discovered was that anything I attempted to use to remove the oil residue was also trapped in the residue, in minute amounts, but still toxic.  Sadly I lost a number of feeder fish through testing these methods, but autopsy revealed that they did indeed expire via toxicity.  So for safety reasons, I would always advise anyone using clove oil to either retire the tank to non aquatic use or, if possible, don't use it in an actual aquarium for euthanasia.  Rubbermaid totes and expendable buckets are advised if possible.  In Noura's case I saw that she mentioned whatever method would be used would have to go directly into the tanks, catching the fish and moving them to put them down wasn't an option, so I included the warning for her just so she was aware and didn't come home later and attempt to reuse those tanks for animals.  Just a side note, one of the small 5 gallon tanks that I had used about 5 yrs ago, after thorough cleaning and dry storage, still smells like clove oil even now.  It is THAT potent.  Dawn  --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Dawn, Thanks very much for your input into this topic as I requested, and for your clarification of the effects that copper will have on the nervous system. I was unsure of these effects, and so, asked for further comment on this method but I didn't see many other alternatives since Noura felt that Clove Oil was not convenient for her. I didn't look at it more closely, although perhaps it might also be expensive in Syria, but if not I see no reason why it couldn't work as you describe. I wouldn't have thought of using that high of concentration of salt, of one cup per gallon, but if that doesn't put an animal out in short time nothing will. As most freshwater fishes can't tolerate much more than 8 teaspoons of salt per gallon (many easily will tolerate 6 tps. per gallon), I'd estimate that half a cup of salt per gallon should be more than enough, but even more yet can only be better < g >; (quicker?) Yes, the fact that the copper (as well as clove oil) would be absorbed into the silicone was ever-present in the back of my mind as I wrote my reply, but I had preferred to concentrate on the issue at hand in having a plan to quickly dispatch these fish, if the situation every necessitated it. With the compromised safety of the silicone and the setting of these tanks back up afterwards being an afterthought, the intention here was to have been to advise Noura how to reseal the tanks for use after removing the sealant, but that would be a long way down the road after her return from evacuation which is hoped never needs to happen. With clove oil, the tanks may still be useful but not without work, although there's that point you bring out of the oil (possibly?) clinging to the glass. Would there be something -- like perhaps rubbing alcohol -- that might remove it so that new tanks wouldn't need to be bought? I'm thinking that might be worth a try; what's your take on that? I'd imagine that new tanks would have to be expensive in Syria. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 12:13:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawnshungryeyes4u2c@... writes: Noura, I am very sorry to hear of your situation and pray that you never find a need to go through with this emergency plan. However, if you must, John is actually starting down the correct path of advice here with the clove oil overdose as a quick sedative. Clove oil is something we use as an anesthetic for performing surgery on fish but it needs to be done very carefully because too much means a certain death. This is, however, painless, especially compared to using something such as copper. Copper affects the nervous system and will cause things such as seizures and etc. as the effects take place and will amount to a great deal of suffering. As Ray has pointed out that salt will dehydrate the fish, I'd like to suggest a combination of a LARGE amount of salt, such as 1 cup per gallon of water, combined with the clove oil. Let me explain the procedure. Start by dosing the clove oil at 10 drops per gallon. To make this procedure faster for you, you may want to get a few small glass containers with lids that will seal them tightly and figure out the dosage ahead of time, and dose each jar with the appropriate amount of clove oil per tank, mark each jar, and set them off in a safe place for future use if needed. If/when the time comes, simply submerge each jar in the correct tank and swish for a moment to mix the oil into the tank water. This should quickly put the fish to sleep. (1 - 2 minutes) Once the oil is dosed, 1 cup per gallon of tank water (yes, I know this is a lot) of salt will make the concentration double that of sea water, and thus will euthanize the fish quickly while at the same time painlessly. At that high concentration of salt their organs would shut down almost instantly. This is the fastest, most humane method there is to euthanize those species of fish in such a short period of time. You could, if you desire, also measure out the correct amount of salt for each tank and set it aside with the clove oil in preparation for a quick reaction if you should get the call to evacuate. Just don't store the clove oil and salt together in advance as this will not have the same effect as dosing the clove oil and salt separately as I explained above. 1 word of caution for you. If you should use the clove oil or the copper as methods to euthanize these fish, please be aware that those tanks will no longer be safe to put fish into in the future. There is nothing, including bleach, that will completely remove the residue left behind by either of those things. Salt could be rinsed out and cleaned later, but both clove oil and copper will remain on the glass and in the silicone seams as well as on any plastic surface permanently once it is used. Both of those substances would render these tanks completely useless for keeping any live aquatic animal in them, permanently, so in the future you would need to start with new tanks if you wished to start up your fish keeping again at a later date. I will pray for you that it never needs to come to this and that the situation in Syria comes to a quick and peaceful end for all. I, too, have been following the daily reports on tv here in the States and find it very disturbing & distressing. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to live with such fear. I am very sorry for you. :-( I wish you and your family and all others in Syria the best of luck. Dawn --- In _aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com ) , <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Devgiri, You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could become an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their breeding. They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are foreign to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish to survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, devgiriprasad@... writes: Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest river,lake, stream or what ever. ________________________________ From: Noura T. < _n-ocean@... _ (mailto: n-ocean@... ) > To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) _ (mailto: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com ) ) Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55393	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Devgiri, In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea. John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55394	From: harry perry	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55395	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide vote going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against it, and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the voting site supposedly is; < http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works- > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo Groups you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes against it. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes: Hi John, Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room for more advertising. We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care what we think. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <_simmonds.john@..._ (mailto:simmonds.john@...) > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. Hi Harry, A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <_harryfisherman@..._ (mailto:harryfisherman@...) > wrote: > ** > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55396	From: sevenspringss	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Fwd: [AquaticLife] New group format.

____________________________________ From: Sevenspringss1@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: 8/31/2013 8:33:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time Subj: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide vote going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against it, and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the voting site supposedly is; < http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works- > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo Groups you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes against it. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes: Hi John, Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room for more advertising. We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care what we think. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <_simmonds.john@..._ (mailto:simmonds.john@...) > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. Hi Harry, A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <_harryfisherman@..._ (mailto:harryfisherman@...) > wrote: > ** > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > Harry > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page. Or e-mail _aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email _aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email _aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links ID required) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55397	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 8/31/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi Ray, Thanks for that-I just clicked it but I can't see the 36,000 votes against or the 35 for. All I can see is a number of votes [currently 21258] at the top left of the page & as far as I can see there is nothing to say what these votes mean either for or against. Perhaps I am on a UK page? There is, however, an opportunity to comment at the bottom of the page & I have added my dissent to this, hopefully Yahoo! are not deaf but they are obviously rather inept! I will certainly copy this link to all the other forums I'm in. John*<o)))<* On 1 September 2013 01:33, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide vote > going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against it, > and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going > for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were > 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the > voting site supposedly is; > > < > > http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works-> > > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a > chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo > Groups > you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes > against it. > > Ray > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > harryfisherman@... writes: > > Hi John, > > Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it > knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room > for > more advertising. > > We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much > one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care > what we think. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <_simmonds.john@..._ > (mailto:simmonds.john@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > Hi Harry, > > A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was > some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess > it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that > isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the > photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing > site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a > specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & > downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one > particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <_harryfisherman@..._ > (mailto:harryfisherman@...) > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators > will > > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail _aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email _aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email _aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55398	From: Cindy Winter	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi John, There is the option to vote at the top left of the page directly beneath the number of votes - I've just voted.   Yahoo did exactly the same thing on Flickr a while ago...  Regards, Cindy ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 2:04 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format.   Hi Ray, Thanks for that-I just clicked it but I can't see the 36,000 votes against or the 35 for. All I can see is a number of votes [currently 21258] at the top left of the page & as far as I can see there is nothing to say what these votes mean either for or against. Perhaps I am on a UK page? There is, however, an opportunity to comment at the bottom of the page & I have added my dissent to this, hopefully Yahoo! are not deaf but they are obviously rather inept! I will certainly copy this link to all the other forums I'm in. John*<o)))<* On 1 September 2013 01:33, <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> wrote: > ** > > > I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide vote > going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against it, > and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going > for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were > 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the > voting site supposedly is; > > < > > http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works-> > > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a > chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo > Groups > you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes > against it. > > Ray > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com writes: > > Hi John, > > Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it > knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room > for > more advertising. > > We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much > one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care > what we think. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <mailto:_simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com_ > (mailto:mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com) > > To: mailto:_AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:mailto:AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > Hi Harry, > > A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was > some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess > it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that > isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the > photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing > site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a > specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & > downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one > particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <mailto:_harryfisherman%40yahoo.com_ > (mailto:mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com) > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators > will > > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail mailto:_aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com) to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email mailto:_aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email mailto:_aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com_ > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com) to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55399	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi Cindy, I've sussed it now, thanks. Interestingly some of my groups are still in the old format-whether this is because Yahoo! have not got round to changing everything yet or they simply don't generate enough traffic to justify the change I don't know. John*<o)))<* On 1 September 2013 09:01, Cindy Winter <cindy.winter.t21@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi John, > There is the option to vote at the top left of the page directly beneath > the number of votes - I've just voted. Yahoo did exactly the same thing > on Flickr a while ago... > Regards, > Cindy > > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 2:04 > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > > > > Hi Ray, > > Thanks for that-I just clicked it but I can't see the 36,000 votes > against or the 35 for. All I can see is a number of votes [currently 21258] > at the top left of the page & as far as I can see there is nothing to say > what these votes mean either for or against. Perhaps I am on a UK page? > There is, however, an opportunity to comment at the bottom of the page & I > have added my dissent to this, hopefully Yahoo! are not deaf but they are > obviously rather inept! > > I will certainly copy this link to all the other forums I'm in. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 1 September 2013 01:33, <mailto:sevenspringss1%40aol.com> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > > I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide > vote > > going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against > it, > > and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going > > for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were > > 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the > > voting site supposedly is; > > > > < > > > > > http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works- > > > > > > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a > > chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo > > Groups > > you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes > > against it. > > > > Ray > > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com writes: > > > > Hi John, > > > > Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it > > knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room > > for > > more advertising. > > > > We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much > > one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care > > what we think. > > > > Harry > > > > ________________________________ > > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <mailto:_simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com_ > > (mailto:mailto:simmonds.john%40ntlworld.com) > > > To: mailto:_AquaticLife%40yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:mailto:AquaticLife% > 40yahoogroups.com) > > > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > > > Hi Harry, > > > > A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was > > some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I > guess > > it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that > > isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the > > photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing > > site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but > on a > > specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & > > downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one > > particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. > > > > John*<o)))<* > > > > On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <mailto: > _harryfisherman%40yahoo.com_ > > > (mailto:mailto:harryfisherman%40yahoo.com) > wrote: > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > > > > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators > > will > > > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > > > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > > You. > > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > > > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important > to > > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , > .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > > > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, > you > > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on > the > > home page. > > > > Or e-mail mailto:_aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com_ > > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-digest%40yahoogroups.com) to receive the > digest, which > > > includes up to 25 posts at a > > time in a single email > > > > Or email mailto:_aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com_ > > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-nomail%40yahoogroups.com) for the No E-Mail > option > > > where you will still be able to > > read messages on the group and post replies. > > > > Or email mailto:_aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com_ > > (mailto:mailto:aquaticlife-normal%40yahoogroups.com) to receive > individual > > > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ID required) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55400	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Hi John, I saw the same number of votes (21258) that you did, when I went up on that site. Looks like that wasn't updated in a while. The numbers I gave you (36,000 and 35) -- as of 7 hours ago when I sent the message -- where just what I read where I learned of this link; they're not what I know of first-hand. Ray In a message dated 8/31/2013 9:04:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes: Hi Ray, Thanks for that-I just clicked it but I can't see the 36,000 votes against or the 35 for. All I can see is a number of votes [currently 21258] at the top left of the page & as far as I can see there is nothing to say what these votes mean either for or against. Perhaps I am on a UK page? There is, however, an opportunity to comment at the bottom of the page & I have added my dissent to this, hopefully Yahoo! are not deaf but they are obviously rather inept! I will certainly copy this link to all the other forums I'm in. John*<o)))<* On 1 September 2013 01:33, <_sevenspringss1@..._ (mailto:sevenspringss1@...) > wrote: > ** > > > I've just learned from another group, that there's a Yahoo-Group-Wide vote > going on to be able to vote in favor of the Neo Yahoo thing or against it, > and there are apparently three places to add a vote. It's been on-going > for two day and has another two days to go. As of 7 hours ago there were > 36,000 votes against and 35 votes for this new format. The link to the > voting site supposedly is; > > < > > http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/4276993-return-groups-format-to-prior-format-that-works-> > > Haven't been up there yet, but if it's not bogus then maybe there's a > chance yet to change things back. Copy and paste it to any other Yahoo > Groups > you're on. Spread this far and wide. Maybe they'll get 100,000 votes > against it. > > Ray > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 6:00:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > _harryfisherman@..._ (mailto:harryfisherman@...) writes: > > Hi John, > > Your right. Instead of asking what folks want and need Yahoo decided it > knows whats best. Normally when Yahoo changes something it's to make room > for > more advertising. > > We shall see. Not much we can do about it. Communication is pretty much > one way with Yahoo. You can contact them but who knows if they even care > what we think. > > Harry > > ________________________________ > From: SIMMONDS JOHN <__simmonds.john@..._ (mailto:_simmonds.john@...) _ > (mailto:_simmonds.john@..._ (mailto:simmonds.john@...) ) > > To: __AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) _ (mailto:_AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) ) > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 5:29 AM > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] New group format. > > Hi Harry, > > A surprise indeed-spotted it late last night & at first thought it was > some kind of glitch, that was until I checked all my other groups. I guess > it will all work out fine but I feel like this is fixing something that > isn't broken simply for the sake of it. My first impression of the > photostream format option is that it is not much use. On a photo-sharing > site such as Flickr then it is a wonderful way to display pictures but on a > specialist help group such as ours this format is largely irrelevant & > downright confusing because many of the photos are specific to one > particular thread or query but maybe I'm just being an old grouch. > > John*<o)))<* > > On 31 August 2013 03:40, harry perry <__harryfisherman@..._ (mailto:_harryfisherman@...) _ > (mailto:_harryfisherman@..._ (mailto:harryfisherman@...) ) > wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 > > > > Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators > will > > help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. > > > > Harry > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s > > Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank > You. > ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> > PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to > the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the > SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- > <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. > We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. > > If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you > can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the > home page. > > Or e-mail __aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) _ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com) ) to receive the digest, which > includes up to 25 posts at a > time in a single email > > Or email __aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) _ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com) ) for the No E-Mail option > where you will still be able to > read messages on the group and post replies. > > Or email __aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) _ > (mailto:_aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com) ) to receive individual > e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links > > ID required) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55401	From: Cindy Winter	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Hi Harry, Thanks for taking the time to reply.   The lump is continuing to fade but is still raised - I'll take some photos for posting here.   Before I was told of this group, I did a lot googling and lymphocystis was mentioned.   Again though there were conflicting opinions with some sites saying that goldfish were never infected by the virus but others disagreeing with this. As far as the size of my aquarium is concerned, unfortunately upgrading is just not an option at the moment as I don't have the room.   @ 284 litres each I think my 3 goldfish and pleko would need an entire room to themselves! Best wishes, Cindy ________________________________ From: "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2013, 6:25 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment...   Hi Cindy, I thought I had replied to you earlier, but I see I hadn't. So, trying to diagnose what this lump might be (or might have been), is really a bit difficult as it could be a number of different things -- just as you've had four different "explanations" from different shops. As whatever caused it may be underneath the skin, it's like a doctor trying to guess at what's causing a lump before taking an Xray. If there's something under the skin, it's hidden and could be a number of things that have already been mentioned. I'm glad to read that whatever it is, it's shrinking. This could mean that it's nothing serious, or maybe no longer serious even if it were an ulcer. While your medications are non-specific in treating any certain maladies, they seem to be addressing the issue in any case unless this is just coincidental. You'd probably do best with continuing this same treatment until this lump is gone completely. On another note, while I don't mean to upset the apple-cart, and while your fishes seem to be doing fine otherwise -- for these past seven years -- I feel I need to tell you that since goldfish are really more of a pond fish rather than an aquarium fish (even though many keep them in aquaria), these three goldfish (plus one Pleco) really need more room than a 90 Litre (23.78 U.S. Gallon) tank to have sufficient room to grow. Straight-tail goldfish -- if that's what you have -- have the possiblity of reaching from between 12" and 14" in length They're really pond fish, unless the hobbyist has an exceptionally large tank to ensure they'll reach their full potential of reaching their full size. Each one should have almost 75 gallons (284 Litres) each for them to reach this size and they can live for at least 20 years or more. To keep them confined to a small tank such as the one you described is to restrict their growth so that they attain only a portion of what they're able to grow to. While I'm not at all degrading you for possibly stunting them (many hobbyists have the idea that goldfish don't get any larger than a fish that's able to be kept in a smallish tank or even a goldfish bowl) I would please like you to know that not supplying these fish larger enough quarters to ensure that they thrive and prosper (that they'll reach at least 12" in length), may well compromise their health because of this unrealized restriction, causing prolonged stress in the fish. This may be why the one fish developed what may be an ulcer, but of course that can't be known for sure, but any degree of stunting can cause health issues and I have to doubt that these fish have reached even half their normal full grown size or they couldn't all be maintained in a 90 Litre tank. While you haven't mentioned what kind of Pleco you have, the most common ones will normally reach up to at least 18" or more, and really need a minimum of about 190 Litres just for themselves, with 280 Liters being more comfortable in affording the fish more room to swim. If, however, you have one of the Bushy-Nosed Plecos, they only reach a length of able 6" or so, and will do just fine in about 10 gallons (of their own) with being housed in a much larger tank when included with other fish -- which would reach the size of pond fish. I bring this up only to illustrate that these fishes' confinement in too small of a tank to allow them to grow to their natural size may be the cause of this issue, even while you were unaware of their full needs. I do regret I really can't pinpoint the cause of this issue though. Ray In a message dated 8/29/2013 4:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mailto:cindy.winter.t21%40btinternet.com writes: Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into this raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days the lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an ulcer or pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old and shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55402	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/1/2013
Subject: Re: Goldfish ailment...

Hi Cindy, While I have no idea what this spot is on your Goldfish I seriously doubt that it is Lymphocystis or Carp Pox which is similar as I have come across both of these-on my fish as well as others & it has never looked anything like your mystery spot. How often & how much water do you change each time? The reason being if you cannot upgrade the size of your tank then increasing the amount/frequency of your water changes will have a similar effect to upgrading your tank size-albeit for a limited period but that's an option in the short term. John*<o)))<* On 1 September 2013 17:09, Cindy Winter <cindy.winter.t21@...>wrote: > ** > > > Hi Harry, > Thanks for taking the time to reply.  The lump is continuing to fade > but is still raised - I'll take some photos for posting here.  Before I > was told of this group, I did a lot googling and lymphocystis was > mentioned.  Again though there were conflicting opinions with some sites > saying that goldfish were never infected by the virus but others > disagreeing with this. > As far as the size of my aquarium is concerned, unfortunately upgrading is > just not an option at the moment as I don't have the room.  @ 284 litres > each I think my 3 goldfish and pleko would need an entire room to > themselves! > Best wishes, > Cindy > > > ________________________________ > From: "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2013, 6:25 > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Goldfish ailment... > > >  > > Hi Cindy, > > I thought I had replied to you earlier, but I see I hadn't. So, trying to > diagnose what this lump might be (or might have been), is really a bit > difficult as it could be a number of different things -- just as you've > had > four different "explanations" from different shops. As whatever caused it > may be underneath the skin, it's like a doctor trying to guess at what's > causing a lump before taking an Xray. If there's something under the skin, > it's hidden and could be a number of things that have already been > mentioned. > I'm glad to read that whatever it is, it's shrinking. This could mean > that it's nothing serious, or maybe no longer serious even if it were an > ulcer. > > While your medications are non-specific in treating any certain maladies, > they seem to be addressing the issue in any case unless this is just > coincidental. You'd probably do best with continuing this same treatment > until > this lump is gone completely. > > On another note, while I don't mean to upset the apple-cart, and while > your fishes seem to be doing fine otherwise -- for these past seven years > -- I > feel I need to tell you that since goldfish are really more of a pond fish > rather than an aquarium fish (even though many keep them in aquaria), > these three goldfish (plus one Pleco) really need more room than a 90 > Litre > (23.78 U.S. Gallon) tank to have sufficient room to grow. Straight-tail > goldfish -- if that's what you have -- have the possiblity of reaching > from > between 12" and 14" in length They're really pond fish, unless the > hobbyist > has an exceptionally large tank to ensure they'll reach their full > potential > of reaching their full size. Each one should have almost 75 gallons (284 > Litres) each for them to reach this size and they can live for at least 20 > years or more. > > To keep them confined to a small tank such as the one you described is to > restrict their growth so that they attain only a portion of what they're > able to grow to. While I'm not at all degrading you for possibly stunting > them (many hobbyists have the idea that goldfish don't get any larger than > a > fish that's able to be kept in a smallish tank or even a goldfish bowl) I > would please like you to know that not supplying these fish larger enough > quarters to ensure that they thrive and prosper (that they'll reach at > least > 12" in length), may well compromise their health because of this > unrealized > restriction, causing prolonged stress in the fish. This may be why the > one fish developed what may be an ulcer, but of course that can't be known > for sure, but any degree of stunting can cause health issues and I have to > doubt that these fish have reached even half their normal full grown size > or > they couldn't all be maintained in a 90 Litre tank. > > While you haven't mentioned what kind of Pleco you have, the most common > ones will normally reach up to at least 18" or more, and really need a > minimum of about 190 Litres just for themselves, with 280 Liters being > more > comfortable in affording the fish more room to swim. If, however, you have > one > of the Bushy-Nosed Plecos, they only reach a length of able 6" or so, and > will do just fine in about 10 gallons (of their own) with being housed in > a > much larger tank when included with other fish -- which would reach the > size of pond fish. > > I bring this up only to illustrate that these fishes' confinement in too > small of a tank to allow them to grow to their natural size may be the > cause > of this issue, even while you were unaware of their full needs. I do > regret I really can't pinpoint the cause of this issue though. > > Ray > > In a message dated 8/29/2013 4:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mailto:cindy.winter.t21%40btinternet.com writes: > > Hi one and all, I'm wondering whether anyone can through any light on a > problem I've recently had with one of my goldfish - see photos. The lump > started off as a flat dark patch which after about 2 weeks developed into > this > raised lump. His behaviour didn't change though inasmuch as he didn't show > any symptoms of distress and was as greedy as ever. In the past few days > the > lump has faded in colour and seems to be shrinking in size - good news but > I would still like to know what caused it. I have visited various pet > shops and been given a variety of diagnoses - either a parasite or an > ulcer or > pigmentation or a blood blister - and have been treating the water with > Aquarium Salts, General Tonic and Melafix. The fish is about 7 years old > and > shares his 90 litre aquarium with 2 other goldfish and a pleko who are all > fine. I do hope someone out there can help me. All the best, Cindy > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55403	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/4/2013
Subject: Any request about fish aliments - - !

" How often & how much water do you change each time? The reason being if you cannot upgrade the size of your tank then increasing the amount/frequency of your water changes will have a similar effect to upgrading your tank size-albeit for a limited period but that's an option in the short term. " There is the most recurring and important issue ALL our question need for answers. The Forum needs to put this in a "Required input" for any request for Fish Health requests. Charles H -- }}<{{{¿> <*{{(((>{{ Change as much water as often as you can! Charles Harrison in St Louis http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ }}<{{{¿> }}<{{{¿> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55404	From: Noura T.	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: New filter, N cycle question

Hi, We've had many major power outages, internet abruptions, and even water cutouts. So I couldn't check answers to my previous question (Emergency Plan), but I will thoroughly read them tonight. Thanks for helping "us" everyone.   Now the new issue, is that my Yellow Labs filter is electrifying the water. I discovered that right after a long power outage, the fish were acting very strangely once the power was back and the filter was on, jumping and trembling. An electric current inspector, and my own hand (!), confirmed my doubts. I immediately unplugged the filter and placed a small DIY sponge filter that my husband and I had made to be used in the 1.5 G bowl. The sponge filter was running for the last 2 months with two guppies and a bunch of MT snails, so it should be slightly populated. A trip to the LFS, a new filter, washed, placed it in the Labs tank. Now there are two filters running there, the new one, and the sponge filter. I didn't use the old filter's sponge because it has a very different size and shape than the new filter's.   Question: How long will it take the new filter to be properly populated with N-Bacteria, so I could remove the sponge filter? I will plant a 1"*1" piece of filter media from another filter in the new Labs filter to speed things up a little as well.   Thank you, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55405	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: New filter, N cycle question

Hi Noura,  Do you have your water readings for that tank? With the DIY filter running there will probably be some imbalance with your old filter but I would guess it will smooth things along, especially if you step up your water change regime a little. Hard to tell how long the new filter will take to cycle, could be anything from a couple of weeks to a month or so.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 09:57, Noura T. <n-ocean@...> wrote:   Hi, We've had many major power outages, internet abruptions, and even water cutouts. So I couldn't check answers to my previous question (Emergency Plan), but I will thoroughly read them tonight. Thanks for helping "us" everyone.   Now the new issue, is that my Yellow Labs filter is electrifying the water. I discovered that right after a long power outage, the fish were acting very strangely once the power was back and the filter was on, jumping and trembling. An electric current inspector, and my own hand (!), confirmed my doubts. I immediately unplugged the filter and placed a small DIY sponge filter that my husband and I had made to be used in the 1.5 G bowl. The sponge filter was running for the last 2 months with two guppies and a bunch of MT snails, so it should be slightly populated. A trip to the LFS, a new filter, washed, placed it in the Labs tank. Now there are two filters running there, the new one, and the sponge filter. I didn't use the old filter's sponge because it has a very different size and shape than the new filter's.   Question: How long will it take the new filter to be properly populated with N-Bacteria, so I could remove the sponge filter? I will plant a 1"*1" piece of filter media from another filter in the new Labs filter to speed things up a little as well.   Thank you, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55406	From: noura_taweel	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know that many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura     --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: electricity? you would need a generator though if the hydro went out, or maybe a car battery? I will pray for you and your fish as well Noura... the news is full of the happenings there. Britain has said it will not do anything, so the U.S. may have to go it alone if they feel they must... very difficult situation. Al.   --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Noura, I see no need for you to apologize here for something you feel you must do if and when that time ever comes. Any humane end to your fishes, should it ever become necessary, would be much better than prolonged suffering. We understand some of your plight, and sympathize with you for all the turmoil that's going on in your country. The news of this war is being broadcast on television almost every day, and my thoughts have been of your welfare in your dangerous situation. I hope these battles remain far away from your area. Since you may not have time to use clove oil or to put the fish in the freezer in a container of water, I must admit that I'm in unchartered waters here when it comes to euthanizing your fish so quickly. While the addition of liquid bleach or bottled household ammonia to their water would surely dispatch them in short time, I feel that these products may burn their gills causing them to suffer for those few minutes. Instead, a toxin that would promote no suffering and still be fast at the same time would probably be the best method to use, or at least one of the best -- unless another member here can suggest something better -- and I'm certainly open to any other suggestions. My recommendation, but depending on others' opinion(s) -- would be to overdose with a toxic medication that they would not feel, IF you can get it (and I know there are many meds you can't get there) -- and I'm thinking of one that contains copper as that metal is highly toxic to fish in larger amounts. For this, I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper. Normally it's safe for most fishes at it's recommended dose, except for the scaleless species. While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication. This will reduce this compound to Cu+ (Cu is the chemical abbreviation for copper), eliminating the organic amine, and making this medication 10 times more toxic than it ordinarily is when used for parasites, etc. This should be fairly quick, painless and free of suffering. Seachem also makes a product called Cuprasorb, which is very aggressive at removing this medication, so if you've already added the medication but found at the last minute that it was unnecessary to do so, the toxicity can be reversed if this second product is used immediately. Salt is not really toxic, but most freshwater fishes can tolerate just so much. After reaching that point to where the fish can't tolerate any more salt, they'll decline slowly. Salt, in higher concentrations, will dehydrate freshwater fishes -- pulling water out of them through their gills. It certainly doesn't dry them out completely, and not even close to it, but enough so that it starts shutting down their organ functions. I don't believe this happens very fast though, although -- and I'm not sure, so maybe Dawn or someone else can help me out -- it may put them to sleep at this point, which would be much better. Another resort to keep in mind if Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate -- a blue-green crystaline substance which is used to dye textiles as one of it's uses. I have about a pound of it here that my grandmother used to use 70 or 80 years ago, and could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport. You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. Anyone else have another suggestion on what to use? Ray In a message dated 8/30/2013 9:10:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, n-ocean@... writes: I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in order to avoid even more suffering. I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the long and terrible suffering. And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much time to spend on pets) The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method can't be used. Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not be any better than if they stayed here under my care. I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and Clowns "Botia"). Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to never have to use them! Many thanks, Noura [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55407	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Silent Pumps

Hi Everyone,   I did the annual clean & maintenance on my two Eheim Compact+ 5000 pumps in the wet/dry sump filter yesterday. The pumps push the water from my gravity fed filter back up to the tank outlets & the compartment they are in remains relatively clean but needs a once-yearly going over just to check the jubilee clips that fix the hose to the pumps, the shut off valves & clean the sponges inside the pump inlets. The sponges get pretty caked in muck & debris which is easy to rinse off under the tap, what I avoid doing now at all costs is to take out the ceramic impeller housing & clean that because in my experience the thin film of green slime that builds up on it acts as a lubrication & keep the pumps running almost silently. The fast action of the impeller prevents any build-up of debris so it really looks after itself. I did clean the impellers & housing once-big mistake, I had humming pumps in my living room for months until the slime built up again & because there are two pumps without lubrication as soon as they get out of synch with one another-only has to be by one or two RPM & you get an awful oscillation of sound waves around the house. I don't know if anyone else has or had the problem of noisy/oscillating pumps [all manufacturers claim their product are the quietest!] but hopefully this tip may of use to some of you.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55408	From: noura_taweel	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55409	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: New filter, N cycle question

Hi Noura,   I understand that all these outages and interruptions are extremely inconvenient.  At least, they're not immediately life threatening, and I hope things don't get any worse for you.  I'd hope that conditions get better for you soon, but we all know this probably won't be the case yet.  You're very brave, and we look up to you in your time of strife.   On the N-Bacteria and the time it will take for them to get fully populated, as John approximated, probably about a month or more -- but, as these bacteria are now populating both the sponge filter, and now this new filter, you can expect a mini cycle after they're fully populated and when you remove the sponge filter, as now you'll be removing a large quanty of N-Bacteria with the sponge filter.   There will always be just a certain amount of N-Bacteria sharing all filter surfaces.  That a sponge filter is in the tank means that even when the new filter is fully populated, it's only contains the share of N-Bacteria in proportion to it's surface area as compared to the sponge filter's area.  The new filter can't contain any more N-Bacteria than the sponge filter contains; they're now sharing the workload.   Ray     In a message dated 9/5/2013 5:04:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, n-ocean@... writes:   Hi, We've had many major power outages, internet abruptions, and even water cutouts. So I couldn't check answers to my previous question (Emergency Plan), but I will thoroughly read them tonight. Thanks for helping "us" everyone. Now the new issue, is that my Yellow Labs filter is electrifying the water. I discovered that right after a long power outage, the fish were acting very strangely once the power was back and the filter was on, jumping and trembling. An electric current inspector, and my own hand (!), confirmed my doubts. I immediately unplugged the filter and placed a small DIY sponge filter that my husband and I had made to be used in the 1.5 G bowl. The sponge filter was running for the last 2 months with two guppies and a bunch of MT snails, so it should be slightly populated. A trip to the LFS, a new filter, washed, placed it in the Labs tank. Now there are two filters running there, the new one, and the sponge filter. I didn't use the old filter's sponge because it has a very different size and shape than the new filter's. Question: How long will it take the new filter to be properly populated with N-Bacteria, so I could remove the sponge filter? I will plant a 1"*1" piece of filter media from another filter in the new Labs filter to speed things up a little as well. Thank you, Noura

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55410	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55411	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Any otto cat people here?

Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone here has any wisdom on otto's. I'm thinking of putting 1-2 in my planted 10 g, that has been running for about 5 weeks. All is going well; the plants are thriving, and growing, and the platy and mystery snail I put in there to get the cycle going, are both very happy and healthy; they will be going to the 40g in a couple days.  The plants will be glad of the snail's removal... it likes to dig... bad, bad snail...lol. So as I said, I would like to put in an "otto"matic  cleaning system. I have read people say that they are fine alone, and some that say groups... typical for the internet. So does anyone have any first hand experience with having 1 alone, or maybe with 1 friend? It is just a ten, I think there would be plenty to munch on for one, but with two, I may have to supplement with a bit of algae wafer; I'd rather not, if just the one otto would not be too miserable by himself. Opinions?   Thanks.   Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55412	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Any otto cat people here?

Hi Al,   In the wild we would see no less than two at a time.  I would do a supplemental feeding anyway just to be safe. Break off a piece of an algae wafer if they don't like whatever you are feeding the rest.   Mike -----Original Message----- From: al_keep_fish <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 6:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Any otto cat people here?   Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone here has any wisdom on otto's. I'm thinking of putting 1-2 in my planted 10 g, that has been running for about 5 weeks. All is going well; the plants are thriving, and growing, and the platy and mystery snail I put in there to get the cycle going, are both very happy and healthy; they will be going to the 40g in a couple days.  The plants will be glad of the snail's removal... it likes to dig... bad, bad snail...lol. So as I said, I would like to put in an "otto"matic  cleaning system. I have read people say that they are fine alone, and some that say groups... typical for the internet. So does anyone have any first hand experience with having 1 alone, or maybe with 1 friend? It is just a ten, I think there would be plenty to munch on for one, but with two, I may have to supplement with a bit of algae wafer; I'd rather not, if just the one otto would not be too miserable by himself. Opinions?   Thanks.   Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55413	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Silent Pumps

I hear ya John. my little tank beside the bed has been noisy at times. I clean the filter every 2 weeks... then it took a week for it to quiet down. I started putting eheim seal silicone on the impellor shaft when I cleaned it... that fixed the problem. now that the tank is planted, it is no longer a problem...  there's plenty of slime to go around..  :-)>>> Al. --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Everyone,   I did the annual clean & maintenance on my two Eheim Compact+ 5000 pumps in the wet/dry sump filter yesterday. The pumps push the water from my gravity fed filter back up to the tank outlets & the compartment they are in remains relatively clean but needs a once-yearly going over just to check the jubilee clips that fix the hose to the pumps, the shut off valves & clean the sponges inside the pump inlets. The sponges get pretty caked in muck & debris which is easy to rinse off under the tap, what I avoid doing now at all costs is to take out the ceramic impeller housing & clean that because in my experience the thin film of green slime that builds up on it acts as a lubrication & keep the pumps running almost silently. The fast action of the impeller prevents any build-up of debris so it really looks after itself. I did clean the impellers & housing once-big mistake, I had humming pumps in my living room for months until the slime built up again & because there are two pumps without lubrication as soon as they get out of synch with one another-only has to be by one or two RPM & you get an awful oscillation of sound waves around the house. I don't know if anyone else has or had the problem of noisy/oscillating pumps [all manufacturers claim their product are the quietest!] but hopefully this tip may of use to some of you.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55414	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/5/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Noura,   Please disregard my recommendation concerning copper.  If you read Dawn's post regarding this metal, she states that it affects the nervous system as it takes effect, and will cause seizures.  Looks like salt is the best choice as far as being humane, even if it takes longer.   Ray      In a message dated 9/5/2013 12:12:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, n-ocean@... writes:   P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55415	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Silent Pumps

Hi Al,   Of course there is always the possibility of a bit of trapped air in the pump & that also makes them noisy. Much more of an easy fix, all you do is switch it on & off rapidly a few times & that generally clears it.   John<o)))< On 6 September 2013 02:33, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   I hear ya John. my little tank beside the bed has been noisy at times. I clean the filter every 2 weeks... then it took a week for it to quiet down. I started putting eheim seal silicone on the impellor shaft when I cleaned it... that fixed the problem. now that the tank is planted, it is no longer a problem...  there's plenty of slime to go around..  :-)>>> Al. --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Everyone,   I did the annual clean & maintenance on my two Eheim Compact+ 5000 pumps in the wet/dry sump filter yesterday. The pumps push the water from my gravity fed filter back up to the tank outlets & the compartment they are in remains relatively clean but needs a once-yearly going over just to check the jubilee clips that fix the hose to the pumps, the shut off valves & clean the sponges inside the pump inlets. The sponges get pretty caked in muck & debris which is easy to rinse off under the tap, what I avoid doing now at all costs is to take out the ceramic impeller housing & clean that because in my experience the thin film of green slime that builds up on it acts as a lubrication & keep the pumps running almost silently. The fast action of the impeller prevents any build-up of debris so it really looks after itself. I did clean the impellers & housing once-big mistake, I had humming pumps in my living room for months until the slime built up again & because there are two pumps without lubrication as soon as they get out of synch with one another-only has to be by one or two RPM & you get an awful oscillation of sound waves around the house. I don't know if anyone else has or had the problem of noisy/oscillating pumps [all manufacturers claim their product are the quietest!] but hopefully this tip may of use to some of you.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55416	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Al,   I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons  for being in the hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 20:14, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55417	From: harry perry	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

In the world of animals.........survival of the fittest is the rule not the exception. Would you swat a mosquito ????. Harry From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   Hi Al,   I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons  for being in the hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 20:14, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55418	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Only if it bit me.   John<o)))< On 7 September 2013 00:09, harry perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:   In the world of animals.........survival of the fittest is the rule not the exception. Would you swat a mosquito ????. Harry From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   Hi Al,   I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons  for being in the hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 20:14, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55419	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Fish food is also in part made of fish.  I am fairly certain the fish used for fish food did not die of natural causes. -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   In the world of animals.........survival of the fittest is the rule not the exception. Would you swat a mosquito ????. Harry From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   Hi Al,   I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons  for being in the hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 20:14, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1.      Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2.      Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55420	From: harry perry	Date: 9/6/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

The good fish food is made from fish. If you have a pair of very special Bettas that you paid $250.00 for. You damn sure will use a lesser fish to make sure the water is perfect. Harry From: "Deenerz@..." <Deenerz@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   Fish food is also in part made of fish.  I am fairly certain the fish used for fish food did not die of natural causes. -----Original Message----- From: harry perry <harryfisherman@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   In the world of animals.........survival of the fittest is the rule not the exception. Would you swat a mosquito ????. Harry From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: Emergency Plan   Hi Al,   I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons  for being in the hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it.   John<o)))< On 5 September 2013 20:14, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like.   Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again.  :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology"  better than I.  Fishyology... I crack me up...  :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword.   We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok.   Al.  :-)>>> --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <n-ocean@...> wrote: P.S: Sorry if this message was sent twice, I can't tell if the previous one was properly sent in the new groups format. Thanks for your warm feelings and prayers. It's nice to know how many people are praying for you and your country. Please keep them coming! I have written detailed replies below, but if you don't feel like reading them all, then please skip them down to the "Conclusion", and if you have any helpful information, I'd appreciate hearing them.   Ray: - "I'd suggest getting Seachem's Cupramine (Cu+2) which is an organic amine compound (w/nitrogen) of copper.  While you could increase that dosage to where it's toxic, we wouldn't know how much extra to add to get that effect. A surer way to ensure that this med becomes toxic is to overdose with a dechloraminator, such as Prime, at the same time you add this medication."   The only organic amine copper compound I could find is a mixture of Humic Acid derivatives with copper, (13% purity). Copper oxychloride (80%), and copper hydroxide (80%) are also available. Would any of these work? Can these compounds be easily and completely removed from the tanks for future fish keeping use? Copper sulfate could be obtained as well, but I was told it's highly toxic to humans, so I won't come near it, there is always a possibility of the tanks to break due to a sliver and the water to pour all over the floor and furniture. So that's not an option.   -"If Cupramine can't be located might be to try looking for Copper Nitrate .( ….) I could send you some, but I don't know if it would get through Customs at your airport."   An American sending me a suspicious powder.. hmmm.. I would go straight from the Customs to jail! Lol . But I extremely appreciate your good intentions, Ray J. - "You, your family and your friends (and your fishes) will be kept in my prayers to get safely through this. "   This would be much needed, and highly appreciated.   John: Thank you for your sincere feelings. You're right about the necessity of looking to those who are in difficult situations, and learn to appreciate what we take for granted (Such as knowing that you will sleep in your own bed tonight, or that you'll be able to find bread in the store for your kid, or fish food in the LFS for your fish!).   But, really, I haven't gone through anything that makes me an inspiration to anyone, yet. We were so lucky so far if compared to other Syrian families who have and are enormously suffering, if they survived at all. Some are close relatives to ours. There are so many difficulties and anxieties that we deal with everyday, but at least we're alive and still in our home. And for that I thank God every day, and pray for the survival of specially innocent people from all sides of the conflict.   As for using Clove Oil, I have used it before to euthanize a couple of sick fish. It was a delicate procedure, and I don't feel it's practical enough to be used on all three tanks, and ensure the dose is high enough. Cleaning this oily substance when I eventually return home –if there was still a home- will not be easy as well. I'd rather turn into quicker methods. But thanks for the suggestion.   Al: "Electricity?" Thank you so much for the prayers, please keep them coming J.  I'm very interested in your suggestion. It's fairly quick for me and the fish, and  I do have a battery that we use to turn a couple of light bulbs on when the power is off.  Would you please elaborate on the procedure? My battery renders 220 Volts.   Dawn: Thank you for the hearty feelings and prayers. As you already figured out, and as I have just replied to John's clove oil suggestion, I'd rather use something that can be cleaned easily and safely. Now after reading your conversation with Ray, it seems that cleaning Clove Oil off the tanks won't just be difficult, but impossible. I believe that life will go on, and fish are a beautiful part of my, and my family's lives. Therefore I believe that I will be more than willing to resume the hobby later, even if not swiftly. Setting new tanks up would be a very exhausting and expensing process. I will do all of what's in my power to maintain the healthy and clean state of my current tanks for future use, assuming that they, and my home.. and me.. survived!    I really appreciate the time and thought it took you to put your suggestion together.   Conclusion:   So that leaves us with two or three valid options: 1. Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚  Electricity ( the cleanest and perhaps quickest): Need more explanations on how to implement this method with my 220 V battery. 2. Â Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚  Salt (Not too quick for the fish, but it can be done in all and any circumstances if I lost my battery): One half to 1 cup/ Gallon.   We may add the third option of cupper compounds (Oxychloride or Hydroxide) IF someone could confirm that it can be completely washed off the tanks. (Replacing gravel is not an issue, I’m more concerned about filters, the glass, and silicone joints).   Thanks, Noura       --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: Obama is seeking congressional authorization. Congress won't be back till the 14th. After that who knows. Harry ________________________________ From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan Hi Devgiri,   In addition to the possibility of the released fish becoming an invasive species in the natural eco system there is always the possibility of them being carriers of some nasty disease or parasites that will be transmitted to the local fish. This is also why I am always trying to stop people flushing poor fish down the toilet, sometimes they are not even dead but typically they will have died from some bacterial problems [brought on by housing in tiny tanks or poor maintenance most likely] & that infection could wreak havoc in the local eco system. I understand there are giant Goldfish in some of the Great Lakes due to unscrupulous releasing of pets & here in the UK I completely agree with Dawn regarding the toxicity of clove oil, it's horrible stuff! The few times I have had to use it I always throw the container & any other vessels I have use it in away because it is so nasty. Dawn, I'm glad my suggestion of clove oil for Noura was helpful-it was just an idea.   John*<o)))<* On 31 August 2013 15:53, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: > ** > > > Devgiri, > > You ask why Noura doesn't let them go in the nearest river or lake, ect.? > BECAUSE to do so would be very irresponsible. Fish species that are > foreign to any area should never be released into the wild as they could > become > an invasive species replacing the native fish population if there are not > enemies (predators. etc.) of them to control the product of their > breeding. > They could multiply unchecked, crowding out the native fishes. Then too, > who's to say that these tropical fish would do any better than to linger a > slow death if their needs can't be met in the local waters that are > foreign > to them. You don't even know if the area that Noura's in, in Syria > maintains a warm enough temperature climate all year around for her fish > to > survive in the wild. It's a fact that the natural foods needed for Noura's > Yellow Labs do not grow in areas much outside of the Rift Lake Valley (and > nobody will be feeding these fish flake food in the wild as a supplement). > Releasing tropical fish in the wild where they've never been part of that > area's local fauna should NEVER be considered. > > Ray > > > > > In a message dated 8/31/2013 10:36:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > devgiriprasad@... writes: > > Instead of killing them why don't you let them into the nearest > river,lake, > stream or what ever. > > ________________________________ > From: Noura T. <_n-ocean@..._ (mailto:n-ocean@...) > > To: _AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com) > Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013 6:30 PM > Subject: [AquaticLife] Emergency Plan > > I apologize in advance if this message will disturb some of the group's > members, but some things must be done no matter how painful they are in > order to avoid even more suffering. > > I have to be prepared for the worst circumstances here in Syria, an > immediate and unforeseen evacuation might be required. > > Should that happen, my fish will be forced to live in their tanks for weeks > in an abandoned home, without food, filtration, or aeration. Therefore I > must come up with a plan to kill them if I had to leave, and spare them the > long and terrible suffering. > > And here I need your help to suggest the most efficient, easy, and QUICK (5 > - 10 minutes) method to do that. (Let's hope that I will have that much > time > to spend on pets) > > The process should be performed while all fish are still in their tanks, > without having to net any fish or empty any tank. So the clove oil method > can't be used. > > Sometimes I think of taking them all to the fish store, but I know that > their chances to survive in there, or in any other aquarist's home will not > be any better than if they stayed here under my care. > > I currently have a 20 G, a 35 G, and a 6 G Freshwater tanks. (Corys, > Angelfish, Yellow Labs, Mollies, Plecos, a female Fighter "Beta", and > Clowns > "Botia"). > > Salt? A toxic substance? Please share your suggestions, and pray for us to > never have to use them! > > Many thanks, > > Noura > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ AquaticLife · A great way to share experience & ask ?s Please, DELETE this line and EVERYTHING below it when replying, Thank You. ·´¯`·.¸¸.><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..><((((º> PLEASE, when you REPLY to a post, DELETE all TEXT that is NOT important to the reply & if CHANGING the TOPIC of the original message MODIFY the SUBJECT LINE -> i.e. "new subject (was re: old subject)" <- <º((((><.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸<º((((><¸.·´¯`·.¸. , .·´¯`·..<º((((><·´¯`·.¸¸. We Thank You in Advance for Your HELP in this matter. If you do not want all of the groups emails, instead of unsubscribing, you can change your delivery option by clicking on "Edit My Membership" on the home page.  Or e-mail aquaticlife-digest@yahoogroups.com to receive the digest, which includes up to 25 posts at a time in a single email Or email aquaticlife-nomail@yahoogroups.com for the No E-Mail option where you will still be able to read messages on the group and post replies. Or email aquaticlife-normal@yahoogroups.com to receive individual e-mails.Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55421	From: joe t	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Whoah, John Let's not get carried away. It's called an experiment. How else can you do it? If something was not "sacrificed" somewhere along the line we would still be seeking remedies for all kinds of ailments, for example. I fully agree with you that a creature should not be killed just for the sake of killing it. That's where you draw the line between an experiment and a sick mind. joe t --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote: > > Hi Al, > > I hope your suggestion about using a feeder fish as a guinea pig was not > serious? I know other fish keepers have different reasons for being in the > hobby but ethically I see all fish as the same because an animal's > perception of life is not determined by the monetary value we put on it. > > John*<o)))<* > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55422	From: jaffacity	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Loggerhead Sea Turtle in Gaza, Palestine

The Bycatch of a Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta caretta Linnaeus, 1758) in a fishing net on the Gaza Coast, Gaza, State of Palestine. By: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference: Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). The Bycatch of a Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta caretta Linnaeus, 1758) in a fishing net on the Gaza Coast, Gaza, State of Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 108, December 2013, Safar 1435 AH. pp. 1-25. Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.   Website: http://marine-life-palestine.webs.com/loggerhead-sea-turtle On Wednesday 28.08.2013 a fishermen team from Gaza, State of Palestine, caught a Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta caretta Linnaeus, 1758) as a bycatch in their fishing net on the coast of Gaza. Fisherman Mr. Abd Al Salam Radwan said that the sea turtle weighed more than 70 kilogram and is more than 100 years old. The fishermen decided to give the sea turtle to Gaza Zoo to look after it, after they saw the happiness of children when they caught it (Dunya Al Watan, 2013). The Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta caretta), or Loggerhead, is an oceanic turtle distributed throughout the world. It is a marine reptile, belonging to the family Cheloniidae. The average loggerhead measures around 90 cm (35 in) long when fully grown, although larger specimens of up to 280 cm (110 in) have been discovered. The adult loggerhead sea turtle weighs approximately 135 kg (300 lb), with the largest specimens weighing in at more than 450 kg (1,000 lb). The skin ranges from yellow to brown in color, and the shell is typically reddish-brown. No external differences in gender are seen until the turtle becomes an adult, the most obvious difference being the adult males have thicker tails and shorter plastrons than the females (Wikipedia). The loggerhead sea turtle is found in the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans, as well as the Mediterranean Sea. It spends most of its life in saltwater and estuarine habitats, with females briefly coming ashore to lay eggs. The loggerhead sea turtle has a low reproductive rate; females lay an average of four egg clutches and then become quiescent, producing no eggs for two to three years. The loggerhead reaches sexual maturity within 17–33 years and has a lifespan of 47–67 years (Wikipedia). The loggerhead sea turtle is omnivorous, feeding mainly on bottom-dwelling invertebrates. Its large and powerful jaws serve as an effective tool for dismantling its prey. Young loggerheads are exploited by numerous predators; the eggs are especially vulnerable to terrestrial organisms. Once the turtles reach adulthood, their formidable size limits predation to large marine animals, such as sharks (Wikipedia). Loggerheads are considered an endangered species and are protected by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. Untended fishing gear is responsible for many loggerhead deaths. Turtles may also suffocate if they are trapped in fishing trawls. Turtle excluder devices have been implemented in efforts to reduce mortality by providing an escape route for the turtles. Loss of suitable nesting beaches and the introduction of exotic predators have also taken a toll on loggerhead populations. Efforts to restore their numbers will require international cooperation, since the turtles roam vast areas of ocean and critical nesting beaches are scattered across several countries (Wikipedia). Description The loggerhead sea turtle is the world's largest hard-shelled turtle. Adults have an average weight range of 80 to 200 kg (180 to 440 lb) and a length range of 70 to 95 cm (28 to 37 in). The maximum reported weight is 545 kg (1,200 lb) and the maximum carapace length is 213 cm (84 in). The head and carapace (upper shell) range from a yellow-orange to a reddish-brown, while the plastron (underside) is typically pale yellow. The turtle's neck and sides are brown on the tops and yellow on the sides and bottom (Wikipedia).  The turtle's shell is divided into two sections: carapace and plastron. The carapace is further divided into large plates, or scutes. Typically, 11 or 12 pairs of marginal scutes rim the carapace. Five vertebral scutes run down the carapace's midline, while five pairs of costal scutes border them. The nuchal scute is located at the base of the head. The carapace connects to the plastron by three pairs of inframarginal scutes forming the bridge of the shell. The plastron features paired gular, humeral, pectoral, abdominal, femoral, and anal scutes. The shell serves as external armor, although loggerhead sea turtles cannot retract their heads or flippers into their shells (Wikipedia). Sexual dimorphism of the loggerhead sea turtle is only apparent in adults. Adult males have longer tails and claws than females. The males' plastrons are shorter than the females', presumably to accommodate the males' larger tails. The carapaces of males are wider and less domed than the females', and males typically have wider heads than females. The sex of juveniles and subadults cannot be determined through external anatomy, but can be observed through dissection, laparoscopy (an operation performed on the abdomen), histological examination (cell anatomy), and radioimmunological assays (immune study dealing with radiolabeling) (Wikipedia).  Lachrymal glands located behind each eye allow the loggerhead to maintain osmotic balance by eliminating the excess salt obtained from ingesting ocean water. On land, the excretion of excess salt gives the false impression that the turtle is crying (Wikipedia). Distribution The loggerhead sea turtle has a cosmopolitan distribution, nesting over the broadest geographical range of any sea turtle. It inhabits the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific Oceans and the Mediterranean Sea (Wikipedia). In the Atlantic Ocean, the greatest concentration of loggerheads is along the southeastern coast of North America and in the Gulf of Mexico. Very few loggerheads are found along the European and African coastlines. Florida is the most popular nesting site, with more than 67,000 nests built per year. Nesting extends as far north as Virginia, as far south as Brazil, and as far east as the Cape Verde Islands. The Cape Verde Islands are the only significant nesting site on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Loggerheads found in the Atlantic Ocean feed from Canada to Brazil (Wikipedia).  In the Indian Ocean, loggerheads feed along the coastlines of Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and in the Arabian Sea. Along the African coastline, loggerheads nest from Mozambique's Bazaruto Archipelago to South Africa's St. Lucia estuary. The largest Indian Ocean nesting site is Oman, on the Arabian Peninsula, which hosts around 15,000 nests, giving it the second largest nesting population of loggerheads in the world. Western Australia is another notable nesting area, with 1,000–2,000 nests per year (Wikipedia). Pacific loggerheads live in temperate to tropical regions. They forage in the East China Sea, the southwestern Pacific, and along the Baja California Peninsula. Eastern Australia and Japan are the major nesting areas, with the Great Barrier Reef deemed an important nesting area. Pacific loggerheads occasionally nest in Vanuatu and Tokelau. Yakushima Island in Japan is the most important site, with three nesting grounds visited by 40% of all nearby loggerheads. After nesting, females often find homes in the East China Sea, while the Kuroshio Current Extension's Bifurcation region provides important juvenile foraging areas. Eastern Pacific populations are concentrated off the coast of Baja California, where upwelling provides rich feeding grounds for juvenile turtles and subadults. Nesting sites along the eastern Pacific Basin are rare. mtDNA sequence polymorphism analysis and tracking studies suggest 95% of the population along the coast of the Americas hatch on the Japanese Islands in the western Pacific. The turtles are transported by the prevailing currents across the full length of the northern Pacific, one of the longest migration routes of any marine animal. The return journey to the natal beaches in Japan has been long suspected, although the trip would cross unproductive clear water with few feeding opportunities. Evidence of a return journey came from an adult female loggerhead named Adelita, which in 1996, equipped with a satellite tracking device, made the 14500-km (9000-mi) trip from Mexico across the Pacific. Adelita was the first animal of any kind ever tracked across an ocean basin (Wikipedia). The Mediterranean Sea is a nursery for juveniles, as well as a common place for adults in the spring and summer months. Almost 45% of the Mediterranean juvenile population has migrated from the Atlantic. Loggerheads feed in the Alboran Sea and the Adriatic Sea. Greece is the most popular nesting site along the Mediterranean, with more than 3,000 nests per year. Because of this, Greek authorities do not allow planes to take off or land at night in Zakynthos due to the nesting turtles. In addition to the Greek coast, the coastlines of Cyprus and Turkey are also common nesting sites (Wikipedia).  One record of this turtle was made in Ireland washed ashore on Ballyhealy Beach in Co. Wexford (Wikipedia). Habitat Loggerhead sea turtles spend most of their lives in the open ocean and in shallow coastal waters. They rarely come ashore, with the exception of the females' brief visits to construct nests and deposit eggs. Hatchling loggerhead turtles live in floating mats of Sargassum algae. Adults and juveniles live along the continental shelf, as well as in shallow coastal estuaries. In the northwestern Atlantic Ocean, age plays a factor in habitat preference. Juveniles are more frequently found in shallow estuarine habitats with limited ocean access compared to non-nesting adults. Loggerheads occupy waters with surface temperatures ranging from 13.3-28.0°C (56-82°F) during non-nesting season. Temperatures from 27-28°C are most suitable for nesting females (Wikipedia).  Juvenile loggerheads share the Sargassum habitat with a variety of other organisms. The mats of Sargassum contain as many as 100 different species of animals on which the juveniles feed. Some of the prey, such as ants, flies, aphids, leafhoppers, and beetles, are carried by the wind to these areas. Endemic prey of the mats include barnacles, small crab larvae, fish eggs, and hydrozoan colonies. Marine mammals and commercial fish, such as tuna, dolphin fish, and amberjacks, also inhabit the mats (Wikipedia). Ecology and Behaviour Loggerhead sea turtles observed in captivity and in the wild are most active during the day. In captivity, the loggerheads' daily activities are divided between swimming and resting on the bottom. While resting, they spread their forelimbs to about mid-stroke swimming position. They remain motionless with eyes open or half-shut and are easily alerted during this state. At night, captives sleep in the same position with their eyes tightly shut, and are slow to react. Loggerheads spend up to 85% of their day submerged, with males being the more active divers than females. The average duration of dives is 15–30 min, but they can stay submerged for up to four hours. Juvenile loggerheads and adults differ in their swimming methods. A Juvenile keeps its forelimbs pressed to the side of its carapace, and propels itself by kicking with its hind limbs. As the juvenile matures, its swimming method is progressively replaced with the adult's alternating-limb method. They depend entirely on this method of swimming by one year old (Wikipedia).  Water temperature affects the sea turtle's metabolic rate. Lethargy is induced at temperatures between 13 and 15°C (55 and 59°F). The loggerhead takes on a floating, cold-stunned posture when temperatures drop to around 10°C. However, younger loggerheads are more resistant to cold and do not become stunned until temperatures drop below 9°C. The loggerheads' migration helps to prevent instances of cold-stunning. Higher water temperatures cause an increase in metabolism and heart rate. A loggerhead's body temperature increases in warmer waters more quickly than it decreases in colder water; their critical thermal maximum is currently unknown (Wikipedia).  Female-female aggression, which is especially uncommon in marine vertebrates, is common among loggerheads. Ritualized aggression escalates from passive threat displays to combat. This conflict primarily occurs over access to feeding grounds. Escalation typically follows four steps. First, initial contact is stimulated by visual or tactile cues. Second, confrontation occurs, beginning with passive confrontations characterized by wide head-tail circling. They begin aggressive confrontation when one turtle ceases to circle and directly faces the other. Third, sparring occurs with turtles snapping at each other’s jaws. The final stage, separation, is either mutual, with both turtles swimming away in opposite directions, or involves chasing one out of the immediate vicinity. Escalation is determined by several factors, including hormone levels, energy expenditure, expected outcome, and importance of location. At all stages, an upright tail shows willingness to escalate, while a curled tail shows willingness to submit. Because higher aggression is metabolically costly and potentially debilitating, contact is much more likely to escalate when the conflict is over access to good foraging grounds. Further aggression has also been reported in captive loggerheads. The turtles are seemingly territorial, and will fight with other loggerheads and sea turtles of different species (Wikipedia). Feeding The loggerhead sea turtle is omnivorous, feeding mainly on bottom-dwelling invertebrates, such as gastropods, bivalves, and decapods. It has a greater list of known prey than any other sea turtle. Other food items include sponges, corals, sea pens, polychaete worms, sea anemones, cephalopods, barnacles, brachiopods, isopods, insects, bryozoans, sea urchins, sand dollars, sea cucumbers, starfish, fish (eggs, juveniles, and adults), hatchling turtles (including members of its own species), algae, and vascular plants. During migration through the open sea, loggerheads eat jellyfish, floating molluscs, floating egg clusters, squid, and flying fish (Wikipedia).  Loggerheads crush prey with their large and powerful jaws. Projecting scale points on the anterior margin of the forelimbs allow manipulation of the food. These points can be used as "pseudo-claws" to tear large pieces of food in the loggerhead's mouth. The loggerhead will turn its neck sideways to consume the torn food on the scale points. Inward-pointing, mucus-covered papillae found in the fore region of the loggerhead's esophagus filter out foreign bodies, such as fish hooks. The next region of the esophagus is not papillated, with numerous mucosal folds. The digestion rate in loggerheads is temperature-dependent; it increases as temperature increases (Wikipedia). Predators Loggerheads have numerous predators, especially early in their lives. Egg and nestling predators include oligochaete worms, beetles, fly larvae, ants, parasitoid wasp larvae, flesh flies, crabs, snakes, gulls, corvids, opossums, bears, rats, armadillos, mustelids, skunks, canids, procyonids, cats, pigs, and humans. During their migration from their nests to the sea, hatchlings are preyed on by dipteran larvae, crabs, toads, lizards, snakes, seabirds such as frigatebirds, and other assorted birds and mammals. In the ocean, predators of the loggerhead juveniles include fish, such as parrotfish and moray eels, and portunid crabs. Adults are more rarely attacked due to their large size, but may be preyed on by large sharks, seals, and killer whales. Nesting females are attacked by flesh flies, feral dogs, and humans. Salt marsh mosquitos can also pester nesting females (Wikipedia).  In Australia, the introduction of the red fox (Vulpes vulpes) by English settlers in the 19th century led to significant reductions in loggerhead sea turtle populations. In one coastal section in eastern Australia during the 1970s, predation of turtle eggs destroyed up to 95% of all clutches laid. Aggressive efforts to destroy foxes in the 1980s and 1990s has reduced this impact; however, it is estimated that it will be the year 2020 before populations will experience complete recovery from such dramatic losses (Wikipedia). Along the southeastern coast of the United States, the raccoon (Procyon lotor) is the most destructive predator of nesting sites. Mortality rates of nearly 100% of all clutches laid in a season have been recorded on some Florida beaches. This is attributed to an increase in raccoon populations, which have flourished in urban environments. Aggressive efforts to protect nesting sites by covering them with wire mesh has significantly reduced the impact of raccoon predation on loggerhead sea turtle eggs. On Bald Head Island in North Carolina, wire mesh screens are used on every confirmed nest to prevent excavation by resident red foxes. A new concern with the steel cage technique is interference with the normal development of the nestlings' magnetic sense due to the use of ferrous wire, which may disrupt the turtles' ability to navigate properly. Efforts are underway to find a nonmagnetic material that will prevent predators gnawing through the barrier (Wikipedia). Up to 40% of nesting females around the world have wounds believed to come from shark attacks (Wikipedia). Diseases and Parasites Infectious bacteria such as Pseudomonas and Salmonella attack loggerhead hatchlings and eggs. Fungi such as Penicillium infect loggerhead sea turtle nests and cloacae (Wikipedia).  Fibropapillomatosis disease caused by a form of the herpes-type virus threatens loggerheads with internal and external tumors. These tumors disrupt essential behaviors and, if on the eyes, cause permanent blindness. Trematodes of the family Spirorchiidae inhabit tissues throughout the body of the loggerhead, including vital organs, such as the heart and the brain. Trematode infection can be highly debilitating. For example, inflammatory trematode lesions can cause endocarditis and neurological disease.  A nematode, Angiostoma carettae, also infects loggerheads, causing histologic lesions in the respiratory tract (Wikipedia). More than 100 species of animals from 13 phyla, as well as 37 kinds of algae, live on loggerheads' backs. These parasitic organisms, which increase drag, offer no known benefit to the turtle, although the dulling effect of organisms on shell color may improve camouflage (Wikipedia). Life History Early Life Hatchlings range in colour from light brown to almost black, lacking the adult's distinct yellows and reds. Upon hatching, they measure about 4.6 cm (1.8 in) and weigh about 20 g (0.7 oz). The eggs are typically laid on the beach in an area above the high-tide line. The eggs are laid near the water so the hatchlings can return to the sea. The loggerhead's sex is dictated by the temperature of the underground nest. Incubation temperatures generally range from 26-32°C (79-90°F). Sea turtle eggs kept at a constant incubating temperature of 32°C become females. Eggs incubating at 28°C become males. An incubation temperature of 30°C results in an equal ratio of male to female hatchlings. Hatchlings from eggs in the middle of the clutch tend to be the largest, grow the fastest, and be the most active during the first few days of sea life (Wikipedia).  After incubating for around 80 days, hatchlings dig through the sand to the surface, usually occurs at night, when darkness increases the chance of escaping predation and damage from extreme sand surface temperatures is reduced. Hatchlings enter the ocean by navigating toward the brighter horizon created by the reflection of the moon and starlight off the water's surface (Wikipedia).  Hatchlings can lose up to 20% of their body mass due to evaporation of water as they journey from nest to ocean. They initially use the undertow to push them five to 10 m away from the shore. Once in the ocean, they swim for about 20 hours, bringing them far offshore. An iron compound, magnetite, in their brains allows the turtles to perceive the Earth's magnetic field, for navigation. Many hatchlings use Sargassum in the open ocean as protection until they reach 45 cm (18 in). Hatchling loggerheads live in this pelagic environment until they reach juvenile age, and then they migrate to nearshore waters (Wikipedia). Maturation   When ocean waters cool, loggerheads must migrate to warmer areas or hibernate to some degree. In the coldest months, they submerge for up to seven hours at a time, emerging for only seven minutes to breathe. Although outdone by freshwater turtles, these are among the longest recorded dives for any air-breathing marine vertebrate. During their seasonal migration, juvenile loggerheads have the ability to use both magnetic and visual cues. When both aids are available, they are used in conjunction; if one aid is not available, the other suffices. The turtles swim at about 1.6 km/h (0.9 kn; 0.4 m/s) during migration (Wikipedia).  Like all marine turtles, the loggerhead prepares for reproduction in its foraging area. This takes place several years before the loggerhead migrates to a mating area. Female loggerheads first reproduce at ages 28–33 in Southeastern United States and Australia, and at ages 17–30 in South Africa. Age at first reproduction in the Mediterranean, Oman, Japan, and Brazil are unknown. Nesting loggerheads have a straight carapace length of 70–109 cm (28–43 in). Because of the large range, carapace length is not a reliable indicator of sexual maturity. Their estimated maximum lifespan is 47–67 years in the wild (Wikipedia). Reproduction   Female loggerheads first reproduce between the ages of 17 and 33, and their mating period may last more than six weeks. They court their mates, but these behaviours have not been thoroughly examined. Male forms of courtship behaviour include nuzzling, biting, and head and flipper movements. Studies suggest females produce cloacal pheromones to indicate reproductive ability. Before mating, the male approaches a female and attempts to mount her, while she resists. Next, the male and female begin to circle each other. If the male has competitors, the female may let the males struggle with each other. The winner then mounts the female; the male's curved claws usually damage the shoulders of the female's shell during this process. Other courting males bite the male while he is attempting to copulate, damaging his flippers and tail, possibly exposing bones. Such damage can cause the male to dismount and may require weeks to heal. While nesting, females produce an average of 3.9 egg clutches, and then become quiescent, producing no eggs for two to three years. Unlike other sea turtles, courtship and mating usually do not take place near the nesting beach, but rather along migration routes between feeding and breeding grounds. Recent evidence indicates ovulation in loggerheads is mating-induced. Through the act of mating, the female ovulate eggs which are fertilized by the male. This is unique, as mating-induced ovulation is rare outside of mammals. In the Northern Hemisphere, loggerheads mate from late March to early June. The nesting season is short, between May and August in the Northern Hemisphere and between October and March in the Southern Hemisphere.  Loggerheads may display multiple paternity. Multiple paternity is possible due to sperm storage. The female can store sperm from multiple males in her oviducts until ovulation. A single clutch may have as many as five fathers, each contributing sperm to a portion of the clutch. Multiple paternity and female size are positively correlated. Two hypotheses explain this correlation. One posits that males favor large females because of their perceived higher fecundity (ability to reproduce). The other states, because larger females are able to swim more quickly to mating grounds, they have longer mating periods (Wikipedia).  All sea turtles have similar basic nesting behaviours. Females return to lay eggs at intervals of 12–17 days during the nesting season, on or near the beach where they hatched. They exit the water, climb the beach, and scrape away the surface sand to form a body pit. With their hind limbs, they excavate an egg chamber in which the eggs are deposited. The females then cover the egg chamber and body pit with sand, and finally return to the sea. This process takes one to two hours, and occurs in open sand areas or on top of sand dunes. The nesting area must be selected carefully because it affects characteristics such as fitness, emergence ratio, and vulnerability to nest predators. Loggerheads have an average clutch size of 112.4 eggs (Wikipedia).                                                                                                                                     Taxonomy   Carolus Linnaeus gave the loggerhead its first binomial name, Testudo caretta, in 1758. Thirty-five other names emerged over the following two centuries, with the combination Caretta caretta first introduced in 1902 by Leonhard Stejneger. The English common name "loggerhead" refers to the animal's large head. The loggerhead sea turtle belongs to the family Cheloniidae, which includes all sea turtles except the leatherback sea turtle. The subspecific classification of the loggerhead sea turtle is debated, but most authors consider it a single polymorphic species. Molecular genetics has confirmed hybridization of the loggerhead sea turtle with the Kemp's ridley sea turtle, hawksbill sea turtle, and green sea turtles. The extent of natural hybridization is not yet determined; however, second-generation hybrids have been reported, suggesting some hybrids are fertile (Wikipedia).                                                                                                                                                                                                           Evolutionary History   Although evidence is lacking, modern sea turtles probably descended from a single common ancestor during the Cretaceous period. Like all other sea turtles except the leatherback, loggerheads are members of the ancient family Cheloniidae, and appeared about 40 million years ago. Of the six species of living Cheloniidae, loggerheads are more closely related to the Kemp's ridley sea turtle, olive ridley sea turtle, and the hawksbill turtle than they are to the flatback turtle and the green turtle (Wikipedia). Around three million years ago, during the Pliocene epoch, Central America emerged from the sea, effectively cutting off currents between the Atlantic and Indo-Pacific Oceans. The rerouting of ocean currents led to climatic changes as the Earth entered a glacial cycle. Cold water upwelling around the Cape of Good Hope and reduction in water temperature at Cape Horn formed cold water barriers to migrating turtles. The result was a complete isolation of the Atlantic and Pacific populations of loggerheads. During the most recent ice age, the beaches of southeastern North America were too cold for sea turtle eggs. As the Earth began to warm, loggerheads moved farther north, colonizing the northern beaches. Because of this, turtles nesting between North Carolina and northern Florida represent a different genetic population from those in southern Florida (Wikipedia).  The distinct populations of loggerheads have unique characteristics and genetic differences. For example, Mediterranean loggerheads are smaller, on average, than Atlantic Ocean loggerheads. North Atlantic and Mediterranean loggerhead sea turtles are descendants of colonizing loggerheads from Tongaland, South Africa. South African loggerhead genes are still present in these populations today (Wikipedia).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Conservation   Many human activities have negative effects on loggerhead sea turtle populations. The prolonged time required for loggerheads to reach sexual maturity and the high mortality rates of eggs and young turtles from natural phenomena compound the problems of population reduction as a consequence of human activities (Wikipedia).                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Threats   Loggerhead sea turtles were once intensively hunted for their meat and eggs; consumption has decreased, however, due to worldwide legislation. Despite this, turtle meat and eggs are still consumed in countries where regulations are not strictly enforced. In Mexico, turtle eggs are a common meal; locals claim the egg is anaphrodisiac. Eating turtle eggs or meat can cause serious illness due to harmful bacteria, such as Pseudomonas aeruginosa and Serratia marcescens, and high levels of toxic metals that build up through bioaccumulation (Wikipedia).  The US West Coast is a critical migratory corridor for the Pacific loggerheads, in which these turtles swim across the Pacific to California’s coast from breeding grounds in Japan. Important foraging habitats for juveniles in the central North Pacific have been revealed through telemetry studies. Along with these foraging habitats, high levels of bycatch from industrial-scale fisheries have been found to overlap; with drift gillnets in the past and longline fisheries presently. Many juvenile loggerheads aggregate off the coast of Baja California Sur, Mexico, where small coastal fisheries increase these turtles' mortality risk; fishers have reported catching dozens of loggerheads with bottom-set gear per day per boat. The most common commercial fishery that accidentally takes loggerheads are bottom trawls used for shrimp vessels in the Gulf of California. In 2000, between 2,600 and 6,000 loggerheads were estimated to have been killed by pelagic longlining in the Pacific (Wikipedia).  Fishing gear is the biggest threat to loggerheads in the open ocean. They often become entangled in longlines or gillnets. According to the 2009 status review of loggerheads by the Fisheries Service, drowning from entanglement in longline and gillnet fishing gear is the turtles’ primary threat in the North Pacific. They also become stuck in traps, pots, trawls, and dredges. Caught in this unattended equipment, loggerheads risk serious injury or drowning. Turtle excluder devices for nets and other traps reduce the number being accidentally caught (Wikipedia). Nearly 24,000 metric tons of plastic are dumped into the ocean each year. Turtles ingest a wide array of this floating debris, including bags, sheets, pellets, balloons and abandoned fishing line. Loggerheads may mistake the floating plastic for jellyfish, a common food item. The ingested plastic causes numerous health concerns, including intestinal blockage, reduced nutrient absorption and malnutrition, suffocation, ulcerations, or starvation. Ingested plastics release toxic compounds, including polychlorinated biphenyls, which may accumulate in internal tissues. Such toxins may lead to a thinning of eggshells, tissue damage, or deviation from natural behaviors (Wikipedia).  Artificial lighting discourages nesting and interferes with the hatchlings' ability to navigate to the water's edge. Females prefer nesting on beaches free of artificial lighting. On developed beaches, nests are often clustered around tall buildings, perhaps because they block out the man-made light sources. Loggerhead hatchlings are drawn toward the brighter area over the water which is the consequence of the reflection of moon and star light. Confused by the brighter artificial light, they navigate inland, away from the protective waters, which exposes them to dehydration and predation as the sun rises. Artificial lighting causes tens of thousands of hatchling deaths per year (Wikipedia).  Destruction and encroachment of habitat by humans is another threat to loggerhead sea turtles. Optimum nesting beaches are open-sand beaches above the high-tide line. However, beach development deprives them of suitable nesting areas, forcing them to nest closer to the surf. Urbanization often leads to the siltation of sandy beaches, decreasing their viability. Construction of docks and marinas can destroy near-shore habitats. Boat traffic and dredging degrades habitat and can also injure or kill turtles when boats collide with turtles at or near the surface (Wikipedia).  Annual variations in climatic temperatures can affect sex ratios, since loggerheads have temperature-dependent sex determination. High sand temperatures may skew gender ratios in favor of females. Nesting sites exposed to unseasonably warm temperatures over a three-year period produced 87–99% females. This raises concerns over the connection between rapid global temperature changes and the possibility of population extinction. A more localized effect on gender skewing comes from the construction of tall buildings, which reduce sun exposure, lowering the average sand temperature, which results in a shift in gender ratios to favor the emergence of male turtles (Wikipedia).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Conservation Efforts   Since the loggerhead occupies such a broad range, successful conservation requires efforts from multiple countries (Wikipedia).  Loggerhead sea turtles are classified as endangered by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature and are listed under Appendix I of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, making international trade illegal. In the United States, the Fish and Wildlife Service and National Marine Fisheries Service classify them as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. Loggerheads are listed as endangered under both Australia's Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 and Queensland's Nature Conservation Act 1992. The Convention on Migratory Species works for the conservation of loggerhead sea turtles on the Atlantic coast of Africa, as well as in the Indian Ocean and southeast Asia. Throughout Japan, the Sea Turtle Association of Japan aids in the conservation of loggerhead sea turtles. Greece's ARCHELON works for their conservation. The Marine Research Foundation works for loggerhead conservation in Oman. Annex 2 of the Specially Protected Areas and Wildlife Protocol of the Cartagena Convention, which deals with pollution that could harm marine ecosystems, also protects them. Conservation organizations worldwide have worked with the shrimp trawling industry to develop turtle exclusion devices (TEDs) to exclude even the largest turtles. TEDs are mandatory for all shrimp trawlers (Wikipedia).  In many places during the nesting season, workers and volunteers search the coastline for nests, and researchers may also go out during the evening to look for nesting females for tagging studies and gather barnacles and tissues samples. Volunteers may, if necessary, relocate the nests for protection from threats, such as high spring tides and predators, and monitor the nests daily for disturbances. After the eggs hatch, volunteers uncover and tally hatched eggs, undeveloped eggs, and dead hatchlings. Any remaining live hatchlings are released or taken to research facilities. Typically, those that lack the vitality to hatch and climb to the surface die. Hatchlings use the journey from nest to ocean to build strength for the coming swim. Helping them to reach the ocean bypasses this strength-building exercise and lowers their chances of survival (Wikipedia).    References and Internet Websites Animal Diversity Web. Caretta caretta Loggerhead. http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Caretta_caretta/                                      Arkive. Loggerhead Turtle (Caretta caretta). http://www.arkive.org/loggerhead-turtle/caretta-caretta/                                                                                                    Dunya Al Watan (30.08.2013). Animal World: In Pictures .. Catching a great turtle on the Coast of Gaza Sea. Photo by: Ihab Fasfous. (in Arabic). http://www.alwatanvoice.com/arabic/news/2013/08/30/430500.html    Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie’t Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (In Arabic).  Khalaf, N.A.B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv.                                                                                           Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4.           Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (In Arabic).                                                                                      Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae’q Al-Nouma’n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (In Arabic).                                                                       Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (2001). The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine. In: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin Home Page. Extinct and Endangered Animals and Reintroduction. http://gazelle.8m.net/photo3.html                                                                    Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. ISBN 3-00-014121-9. Erste Auflage / First Edition, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten / Pages. Zweite erweiterte Auflage (Second Extended Edition), August 2004: 460 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/                                                                                            Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8.                                             Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm                                Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic).                                                                                                            Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic).       Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/                                                Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha’ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86  Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/            Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html                       Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi’ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://cetacea-palaestina.webs.com/                                                Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/                                       Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa,  Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland.  http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm                                                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 - 2009. / Fauna Emiratus – Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4. Erste Auflage/First Edition, November 2010: 350 Seiten / Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm           Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2012). Fauna Palaestina – Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 – 2009 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Zwei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 1983 – 2009. ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2. 1. Auflage / First Edition : July 2012, Shaaban 1433 H. 208 Seiten / Pages (Arabic Part 120 Pages and the English Part 88 Pages). Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart2.htm                                                                   Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2013). Fauna Palaestina – Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 – 2012 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Drei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 2005 – 2012. ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7. Erste Auflage / First Edition : July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H. 364 pages (English Part 350 Pages and the Arabic Part 14 Pages). Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, State of Palestine. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart3.htm                                                          Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). The Bycatch of a Loggerhead Sea Turtle (Caretta caretta Linnaeus, 1758) in a fishing net on the Gaza Coast, Gaza, State of Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 108, December 2013, Safar 1435 AH. pp. 1-25. Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://marine-life-palestine.webs.com/loggerhead-sea-turtle                                                    National Geographic.  Loggerhead Sea Turtle Caretta caretta. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reptiles/loggerhead-sea-turtle/                                                                                                                         NOAA Fisheries. Office of Protected Resources. Loggerhead Turtle (Caretta caretta). http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/turtles/loggerhead.htm          Sea Turtles 911. Loggerhead Sea Turtle. http://www.seaturtles911.org/turtle/loggerhead.htm                             Wikipedia. Loggerhead Sea Turtle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loggerhead_sea_turtle

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55423	From: Joseph	Date: 9/7/2013
Subject: Re: Which Fish?? Bettas?

Endlers are great in small tanks as well: http://endlers1.com/ --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" wrote: > > Hi, > I have a heater for the tank. I am going to set it up tomorrow, and I have been told to wait a couple of weeks for water and filter to settle and the PH to be right before getting the fish. > > I am thinking of going for neons. I understand I could have 5-8 of these in the bioOrb > Is this right?? > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c" dawnshungryeyes4u2c@ wrote: > > > > Kez, > > You've been given some great advice by Amber and John both, and I also have to agree with what John wrote about the feeder goldfish. A goldfish is a goldfish and there isn't any type/species that belongs in a small tank. > > There are other options for your tank, however, besides just feeder guppies. In 3 gallons I would not suggest you add more than 2 - 3 small fish total as your full population. > > > > With no heater in the tank, male feeder guppies/endlers are 1 option, but also white clouds, gold white clouds, and zebra danios could do just fine. (because of the size of the tank and types of fish I would suggest you stick to just 1 species of fish) > > If you can put a heater into this tank then there are other options such as rasbora het, emerald rasboras, or galaxy rasboras. You might want to look these fish up in Goggle so you can get some idea of their appearance. If any of these interest you and you'd like further information about them please just ask rather than relying on all of the conflicting info found rampant online. > > I'm sure as today goes on I will have other suggestions for you so will pop back in and add to the list. These are just the first that pop into my head right away that are suitable for such a small tank. > > > > Once you get your tank up and running and cycled be sure to decorate it well before you begin adding the fish. There are many here who can talk you through cycling and getting your tank ready for the fish. I apologize for not having the time to do so myself right now but life here has been extremely busy as of lately. > > > > Best of luck to you with your new tank. I will keep an eye on this thread and offer any help I can when I get a chance to stop in. > > > > Dawn > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, "kezzabeast" wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I was recently ripped off by an independent retailer (1 gallon bowl, 2 goldfish, hence 1 died within 48 hours, returned to shop, false info from them initially) > > > I will be getting a 30litre bioOrb donated from a friend as i would love to have some fish in the house. > > > I was initially looking at Betta's, but I have just read its hard to keep them together and they can be aggressive. > > > > > > What would you recommend? I am looking to get two or three fish if possible. I will not be getting goldfish again. I have two children, (6 and 7) so something suitable for them and that will capture their interest. > > > > > > I want to make sure this time that i am doing this properly and offering the fish good life. > > > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Kez > > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55424	From: Noura T.	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Al, I don't know much about batteries, but my husband says that ours is 12 V (120 A). I wouldn't try the method on a living "breathing" fish for any reason unless absolutely necessary. I just can't do it. My husband jokes when I ask him so many questions about euthanizing the fish saying that when the time comes I won't dare to kill a single one! I'm afraid that time will prove him right!   Noura   Re: Emergency Plan Thu Sep 5, 2013 3:35 pm (PDT) . Posted by: al_keep_fish Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like. Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again. :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology" better than I. Fishyology... I crack me up... :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword. We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok. Al. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55425	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/8/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Noura,   You will be able to do what you need to do for your pets should the time come, the fact that you asked shows how much you care for them. Joe & Harry,  I understand everyone's viewpoint is different & I think that is what makes this group so interesting. Personally I could not sacrifice a fish but that's just me probably because 5 years ago I spent £3000 on a custom built acrylic tank for my 5 streamlined Goldfish that I adopted 4 years before that in 2005.   John<o)))< On 8 September 2013 10:18, Noura T. <n-ocean@...> wrote:     Hi Al, I don't know much about batteries, but my husband says that ours is 12 V (120 A). I wouldn't try the method on a living "breathing" fish for any reason unless absolutely necessary. I just can't do it. My husband jokes when I ask him so many questions about euthanizing the fish saying that when the time comes I won't dare to kill a single one! I'm afraid that time will prove him right!   Noura   Re: Emergency Plan Thu Sep 5, 2013 3:35 pm (PDT) . Posted by: al_keep_fish Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like. Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again. :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology&quot; better than I. Fishyology... I crack me up... :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword. We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok. Al. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55426	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

First, I have to agree with Joe & Harry.  As much as I cherish all life, sometimes sacrifices do need to be made for the bigger good for all.  Having worked in the aquatic medical field for so long, I do stand with them about what we refer to as "sacrificial lambs".  Without that, we would not have found cures or treatments for a great many ailments/diseases to treat others.  It sucks when it must be done, but there are times when it is warranted and necessary.  I also agree that it is very different than killing any animal just for the sake of killing or due to simple neglect/lack of care.  Anyone who eats any form of meat does, in some way, partake in the deaths of innocent animals.  It is the circle of life... or as some call it, the food chain.  There are also people who die for the same reasons... testing new drugs that may/may not work until cures are found.  While the people do have some say in whether they participate or not, it is still the same basic concept.  Life should be respected, always, but there is no way to get around making sacrifices at times.  In this case I feel it is warranted so long as the sacrificial animal is provided for or quickly euthanized if something goes wrong or the test doesn't work and the animal survives... to prevent needless suffering.    Noura, I understand your reluctance to use any substance that can't be removed from the tanks, in which case I would stand with Ray and suggest the salt, dosed at 1 cup/gallon instead of the 1/2 cup/gallon.  That would be much safer for you than electricity and there is no guess work left...  at that salinity there would be no chance of survival.  I would still suggest, however, that you prepare and bag the salt for each tank ahead of time and put it away for when it may be needed.  Then if/when the time comes you simply dump the entire amount into each tank all at once.  In regards to the use of electricity... I have never done that before but I do know from past experiences that fish do have some tolerance to electrical charges in the water.  I have known a great many hobbyists who have dropped things like light fixtures (even powerful ones such as metal halide) into their tanks and the fish were not phased by it though the people sure got jolted pretty bad.  There are also fish that give off electrical current.. such as freshwater electric catfish, and they can put out quite the jolt.. have seen them knock a grown man clear off his ladder and onto the floor, singed hair and all... yet the only fish it ever bothered were the ones it actually ate.  The electrical charge simply stunned the other fish it touched, but it didn't kill them.  I also remember watching an episode of River Monsters on tv a few times where he went searching for freshwater electric eels and I clearly remember his saying that just touching the water where they lived was enough to kill a person, yet there were a lot of fish species that coexisted in their habitat, totally unphased by the charges they gave off.  I would not rely on electricity for a quick method to euthanize your fish, as it may only stun them, not kill them.  The salt will for sure kill them and at that high of a salinity, it wouldn't take very long... a matter of minutes or less.  I continue to watch news of the conflict in Syria on tv.  Here in the states it has become a huge, daily conflict with the people in our country and around the world, too.  Our president wants badly to retaliate against your president for the use of chemical weapons against the citizens of Syria and he has gotten very little support.  Personally, I don't know what to think of that one.  As with your situation, it has it's pros and it's cons.  I would just like to see the confict/war end, in all of our countries, so we can all just get back to living our lives without worry of being attacked by anyone.  I know, world peace is wishful thinking, but I wish for it anyways.  I don't think a good solution to the problems truly exists, which is sad for all, so I continue to pray for your safety and that of all the Syrian people.  Good luck to you. Dawn --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Noura,   You will be able to do what you need to do for your pets should the time come, the fact that you asked shows how much you care for them. Joe & Harry,  I understand everyone's viewpoint is different & I think that is what makes this group so interesting. Personally I could not sacrifice a fish but that's just me probably because 5 years ago I spent £3000 on a custom built acrylic tank for my 5 streamlined Goldfish that I adopted 4 years before that in 2005.   John<o)))< On 8 September 2013 10:18, Noura T. <n-ocean@...> wrote:     Hi Al, I don't know much about batteries, but my husband says that ours is 12 V (120 A). I wouldn't try the method on a living "breathing" fish for any reason unless absolutely necessary. I just can't do it. My husband jokes when I ask him so many questions about euthanizing the fish saying that when the time comes I won't dare to kill a single one! I'm afraid that time will prove him right!   Noura   Re: Emergency Plan Thu Sep 5, 2013 3:35 pm (PDT) . Posted by: al_keep_fish Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like. Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again. :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology&quot; better than I. Fishyology... I crack me up... :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword. We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok. Al. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55427	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: Emergency Plan

Hi Dawn,   You make good points-especially the one about us all living in peace. It's a shame those in power throughout the world don't share these thoughts.   John<o)))< On 9 September 2013 09:07, <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote:   First, I have to agree with Joe & Harry.  As much as I cherish all life, sometimes sacrifices do need to be made for the bigger good for all.  Having worked in the aquatic medical field for so long, I do stand with them about what we refer to as "sacrificial lambs".  Without that, we would not have found cures or treatments for a great many ailments/diseases to treat others.  It sucks when it must be done, but there are times when it is warranted and necessary.  I also agree that it is very different than killing any animal just for the sake of killing or due to simple neglect/lack of care.  Anyone who eats any form of meat does, in some way, partake in the deaths of innocent animals.  It is the circle of life... or as some call it, the food chain.  There are also people who die for the same reasons... testing new drugs that may/may not work until cures are found.  While the people do have some say in whether they participate or not, it is still the same basic concept.  Life should be respected, always, but there is no way to get around making sacrifices at times.  In this case I feel it is warranted so long as the sacrificial animal is provided for or quickly euthanized if something goes wrong or the test doesn't work and the animal survives... to prevent needless suffering.    Noura, I understand your reluctance to use any substance that can't be removed from the tanks, in which case I would stand with Ray and suggest the salt, dosed at 1 cup/gallon instead of the 1/2 cup/gallon.  That would be much safer for you than electricity and there is no guess work left...  at that salinity there would be no chance of survival.  I would still suggest, however, that you prepare and bag the salt for each tank ahead of time and put it away for when it may be needed.  Then if/when the time comes you simply dump the entire amount into each tank all at once.  In regards to the use of electricity... I have never done that before but I do know from past experiences that fish do have some tolerance to electrical charges in the water.  I have known a great many hobbyists who have dropped things like light fixtures (even powerful ones such as metal halide) into their tanks and the fish were not phased by it though the people sure got jolted pretty bad.  There are also fish that give off electrical current.. such as freshwater electric catfish, and they can put out quite the jolt.. have seen them knock a grown man clear off his ladder and onto the floor, singed hair and all... yet the only fish it ever bothered were the ones it actually ate.  The electrical charge simply stunned the other fish it touched, but it didn't kill them.  I also remember watching an episode of River Monsters on tv a few times where he went searching for freshwater electric eels and I clearly remember his saying that just touching the water where they lived was enough to kill a person, yet there were a lot of fish species that coexisted in their habitat, totally unphased by the charges they gave off.  I would not rely on electricity for a quick method to euthanize your fish, as it may only stun them, not kill them.  The salt will for sure kill them and at that high of a salinity, it wouldn't take very long... a matter of minutes or less.  I continue to watch news of the conflict in Syria on tv.  Here in the states it has become a huge, daily conflict with the people in our country and around the world, too.  Our president wants badly to retaliate against your president for the use of chemical weapons against the citizens of Syria and he has gotten very little support.  Personally, I don't know what to think of that one.  As with your situation, it has it's pros and it's cons.  I would just like to see the confict/war end, in all of our countries, so we can all just get back to living our lives without worry of being attacked by anyone.  I know, world peace is wishful thinking, but I wish for it anyways.  I don't think a good solution to the problems truly exists, which is sad for all, so I continue to pray for your safety and that of all the Syrian people.  Good luck to you. Dawn --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Noura,   You will be able to do what you need to do for your pets should the time come, the fact that you asked shows how much you care for them. Joe & Harry,  I understand everyone's viewpoint is different & I think that is what makes this group so interesting. Personally I could not sacrifice a fish but that's just me probably because 5 years ago I spent £3000 on a custom built acrylic tank for my 5 streamlined Goldfish that I adopted 4 years before that in 2005.   John<o)))< On 8 September 2013 10:18, Noura T. <n-ocean@...> wrote:     Hi Al, I don't know much about batteries, but my husband says that ours is 12 V (120 A). I wouldn't try the method on a living "breathing" fish for any reason unless absolutely necessary. I just can't do it. My husband jokes when I ask him so many questions about euthanizing the fish saying that when the time comes I won't dare to kill a single one! I'm afraid that time will prove him right!   Noura   Re: Emergency Plan Thu Sep 5, 2013 3:35 pm (PDT) . Posted by: al_keep_fish Hi Noura. I hope your family is doing ok... I can't imagine what it's like. Hmmm. You now have me thinking about my high school electricity courses; I may need therapy now; thinking about high school again. :-)>>> Your battery would probably be 12 volts D.C. with a power inverter to change it to 220 A.C. I think if I were you, I would quickly unhook the inverter if possible, and hook some car booster cables right to the battery. That 12 volts will have the same power as the 220; and I do remember my teacher saying that, "it's not the volts that kill you, it's the amps." The inverter can't make more power, it just boosts one, and that lowers the other. I think straight off of the battery would also be better. because you could use wires that are thicker than household wire... like booster cables. That I think would be better, because with a short circuit like that, those wires would heat up pretty fast; you need to protect your hands from not only electricity, but also heat. Now would something like a car battery have enough current to kill fish? I should think so; but there are people here who know fishy "fishyology&quot; better than I. Fishyology... I crack me up... :-)>>> Ok let's get back to seriousness. Syria, serious? Now stop it Al, that's enough. It sounds kind of heartless; but could you pick up a feeder fish somewhere, and do a trial run with it alone in one of your tanks? The regular inhabitants could go right back in afterword. We're still praying for you. Please check in here once in a while, to let us know that you and your family, and fishy family, are ok. Al. :-)>>>

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55428	From: Rose Bustamante	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: unwanted fish

I realize that we shouldn't release unwanted fish into the environment, but what are we to do with them? All the local fish stores and pet stores around here refuse to take them. I know when we get an animal, we are obligated to care for it for life, but what if my health fails even more? Can they be put into someone's pond with their permission? Also, a bit off-topic-I recently set up a tank for Spanish newts and I was wondering if anyone here keeps newts or knows of a "newt group"? I haven't been able to find one that was not all spam. Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55429	From: deenerzz	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish

You can see if there is a local Fish club in your area. My local clubs try to help out people that contact us. You can try your local paper, or craigslist. Worst case you can euthanize them. There are ways of doing this humanely.   Mike -----Original Message----- From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 7:24 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] unwanted fish   I realize that we shouldn't release unwanted fish into the environment, but what are we to do with them? All the local fish stores and pet stores around here refuse to take them. I know when we get an animal, we are obligated to care for it for life, but what if my health fails even more? Can they be put into someone's pond with their permission? Also, a bit off-topic-I recently set up a tank for Spanish newts and I was wondering if anyone here keeps newts or knows of a "newt group"? I haven't been able to find one that was not all spam. Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55430	From: Charles Harrison	Date: 9/9/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish

>You can see if there is a local Fish club in your area. My local >clubs try to help out people that contact us. You can try your local >paper, or craigslist. >Worst case you can euthanize them. There are ways of doing this humanely. > >Mike There is AquaBid.com to advertise your excess fish. Check them out and try to offer them locally. Charles H > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> >To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Mon, Sep 9, 2013 7:24 pm >Subject: [AquaticLife] unwanted fish > > >I realize that we shouldn't release unwanted fish into the >environment, but what are we to do with them? All the local fish >stores and pet stores around here refuse to take them. I know when >we get an animal, we are obligated to care for it for life, but what >if my health fails even more? Can they be put into someone's pond >with their permission? Also, a bit off-topic-I recently set up a >tank for Spanish newts and I was wondering if anyone here keeps >newts or knows of a "newt group"? I haven't been able to find one >that was not all spam. Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55431	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish

Hi Rose,   What type[s] of fish are you looking to get rid of? If you have Carps & you know someone locally with a pond then by all means ask them.   John<o)))< On 10 September 2013 02:50, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> wrote:   I realize that we shouldn't release unwanted fish into the environment, but what are we to do with them? All the local fish stores and pet stores around here refuse to take them. I know when we get an animal, we are obligated to care for it for life, but what if my health fails even more? Can they be put into someone's pond with their permission? Also, a bit off-topic-I recently set up a tank for Spanish newts and I was wondering if anyone here keeps newts or knows of a "newt group"? I haven't been able to find one that was not all spam. Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55432	From: harry perry	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: unwanted fish

I've heard this story time and time again. In another list I read about a hobbyist who got all his fish for free. He simply caught them out of a local stream. No he didn't live in some remote tropical country. He lived in Florida. His local stream was like going to a pet store. Everyone let their fish go when they got tired of them. They totally destroy local habitats and cost millions to control. They upset the established ecosystem and the native fish starve. Then some horses ass in Washington decides he's going to fix the problem by making it illegal to import fish. Which hurts all of us. For all the trouble and expense it causes when we release fish to the wild we would be better off to euthanize the unwanted fish. Or Google a good fish cookbook. I would thing Oscars could be really tasty. Harry From: SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] unwanted fish   Hi Rose,   What type[s] of fish are you looking to get rid of? If you have Carps & you know someone locally with a pond then by all means ask them.   John<o)))< On 10 September 2013 02:50, Rose Bustamante <bustamante.rose@...> wrote:   I realize that we shouldn't release unwanted fish into the environment, but what are we to do with them? All the local fish stores and pet stores around here refuse to take them. I know when we get an animal, we are obligated to care for it for life, but what if my health fails even more? Can they be put into someone's pond with their permission? Also, a bit off-topic-I recently set up a tank for Spanish newts and I was wondering if anyone here keeps newts or knows of a "newt group"? I haven't been able to find one that was not all spam. Thanks, Rose

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55433	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/10/2013
Subject: Re: Any otto cat people here?

Picked up 4 ottos on saturday, they all seem happy, and my plants look shinier. they also aren't shy, I see more of them than the 8 corys in my other tank. Thumbs up, nice little fish.  --- In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <Deenerz@...> wrote: Hi Al,   In the wild we would see no less than two at a time.  I would do a supplemental feeding anyway just to be safe. Break off a piece of an algae wafer if they don't like whatever you are feeding the rest.   Mike -----Original Message----- From: al_keep_fish <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 6:56 pm Subject: [AquaticLife] Any otto cat people here?   Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone here has any wisdom on otto's. I'm thinking of putting 1-2 in my planted 10 g, that has been running for about 5 weeks. All is going well; the plants are thriving, and growing, and the platy and mystery snail I put in there to get the cycle going, are both very happy and healthy; they will be going to the 40g in a couple days.  The plants will be glad of the snail's removal... it likes to dig... bad, bad snail...lol. So as I said, I would like to put in an "otto"matic  cleaning system. I have read people say that they are fine alone, and some that say groups... typical for the internet. So does anyone have any first hand experience with having 1 alone, or maybe with 1 friend? It is just a ten, I think there would be plenty to munch on for one, but with two, I may have to supplement with a bit of algae wafer; I'd rather not, if just the one otto would not be too miserable by himself. Opinions?   Thanks.   Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55434	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 9/12/2013
Subject: 19year old invents way to clean our oceans within 5 years

19 yr old invents way to clean our oceans within 5 years <http://vr-zone.com/articles/19-year-old-inventor-finds-way-to-clean-up-the-worlds-oceans-in-under-5-years-time/19381.html> _______________________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive  reinforcement includes .... people too. ~ California Wildlife Center,volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55435	From: Lynn	Date: 9/13/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again

Hi all, I know a 25W heater is more than I need for tiny tank (5 gallon and under) but it's still OK isn't it? the mini heaters of 10 watts all seem to be preset to 78 degrees. If I get a 25 Watt heater won't it just come on less often and work alright in case I want to raise the temp. These heaters are for betta tanks. Thank you, Lynn aka rookielynn :-)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55436	From: Paul Gressling	Date: 9/13/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again

HI    I use 25 watt Hydor heaters   (CD-18872)  in my 2 1/2 gallon aquariums.    My temperature stays at 78 all year long.     Paul

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55437	From: megablasto2000	Date: 9/16/2013
Subject: filter bags and nitrobacters

Hi all, Two questions. I have two goldfish. I have their tank set up an internal filter. It has a pin grid plastic thing that I think is for growing bacteria on it, and the other piece is a filter bag for media and waste removal. I added a second filter bag with ceramic pellets hung by a rubber band in front of the intake grill of the internal filter, and the wierd thing is, it doesn't seem like the hanging filter bag or the one inside the internal filter ever really gets very dirty at all. Do the nitrobacters or some other bacteria eat up all the fish poop? The ammonia and ph are great, and I gravel vaccuum almost every night. Also, why do my fish like to eat up and spit out the gravel? One of my fish does this ALL the time? Does it mean he's hungry? I'm careful not to overfeed them. Best regards, Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55438	From: megablasto2000	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: nitrobacter media questions

Is growing nitrifying bacteria on a cellulose sponge OK? I note that some people said to use pot scrubbers, but what kind exactly? There are cellulose, plastic, and coconut (or some kind of stringy brown stuff). Is there anything I should avoid? -Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55439	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: filter bags and nitrobacters

Hi Ken.   Without knowing exactly what kind of internal filter you have, I can't really comment on it specifically, although most filters usually have two types of media -- one used as a mechanical filter in removing particulates and the other used as a biological environment to support nitrifying bacteria.  The ceramic pellet type of medium is a biological filter intended to grow nitrifying bacteria, not to filter out particulates from the water.  It's not going to get especially dirty as it's not designed for this, although the bag may get somewhat dirty depending upon it's mesh size.  You don't say how long of a period you're checking these media at, in determining the extent of them being dirty -- which has a lot to do with what's to be expected.   Yes, there are other (heterotrophic) bacteria which feed on and break down organic solids, including fish poop, which gets converted into ammonia on which the (autotrophic) nitrobacters feed.  Some of these heterotrophic bacteria may be facultative -- depending upon where they and their food (excess fish food and fish poop) are found -- having the option to switch to anaerobic methods of energy production and abilities of converting these wastes.    Glad to hear your water parameters are good.  Of course, only a zero level of ammonia is "great."  A pH reading of any particular value is "great" only in association with any particular species' requirements; it can't otherwise be "great" just because it may acid or because it may be alkaline.  It all depends on the fish being kept, as to how optimum the pH of their water is.  With Goldfish though, yes they do best in low to medium alkaline water.  Other water parameters you should keep tabs on would be nitrite and nitrate, with nitrite not being expected to be elevated if your ammonia is minimal, but it always pays to know the level of all your parameters all of the time.  Nitrate will tend to build up in proportion to the frequency and quantity of the PWC's (partial water changes), although live plants will eliminate (use) some of it -- but it's sometimes impossible to keep live plants with Goldfish only because many relish them.  Your water hardness(es) would be other parameters to consider, but they don't normally vary very much from your "norm."  They (KH and GH) may vary with changes of the season though, depending on the water's source.   Sifting through the substrate is one of Goldfish's normal ways of feeding as they've evolved.  If you fed them twice as much as you're feeding them now, they may still be exhibiting this behavior.  Many, even if not all, Goldfish will root through the gravel to find food particles as it's their way of being opportunists.  Despite the fact they may be well fed, they'll always eat anything else they can find.  Without knowing how much you feed them, it's hard to say if he's really hungry.  Every hobbyist has their own way of determining what that "pinch" of food amounts to and while we've learned to feed only enough that the fish will clean up in a few minutes, even if that amount of time might vary between 2 and 3 minutes (as an example), the hobbyist feeding only enough to be cleaned up in two minutes will obviously be feeding less than another hobbyist feeding 3 minutes worth.  But then too, this is also dependent on other variables, like the aggressiveness of any fish over others, and this fish's ability to get more of the food.   BTW, noticing you have Goldfish, I was wondering how many you have and what size tank they're in.  As Goldfish require large tanks (since they'll reach 12"  to 14"), it's not usual that internal filters would be used in such sizeable tanks.      Ray           In a message dated 9/16/2013 10:38:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Hi all, Two questions. I have two goldfish. I have their tank set up an internal filter. It has a pin grid plastic thing that I think is for growing bacteria on it, and the other piece is a filter bag for media and waste removal. I added a second filter bag with ceramic pellets hung by a rubber band in front of the intake grill of the internal filter, and the wierd thing is, it doesn't seem like the hanging filter bag or the one inside the internal filter ever really gets very dirty at all. Do the nitrobacters or some other bacteria eat up all the fish poop? The ammonia and ph are great, and I gravel vaccuum almost every night. Also, why do my fish like to eat up and spit out the gravel? One of my fish does this ALL the time? Does it mean he's hungry? I'm careful not to overfeed them. Best regards, Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55440	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: nitrobacter media questions

Ken,   You should avoid anything organic, such as natural coconut, as this will slowly deteriorate (rot) in water over time.  Most hobbyists using pot scrubbers use those made of plastic.  I'm not sure what you mean by "cellulose" in reference to pot scrubbers, but the term "cellulose" is usually used in context with plant matter as it's the major portion of all plant cell's walls.  I would avoid such pot scrubbers.  I just now pulled out of one of my kitchen cabinets, a small bag of two of the type of pot scrubbers I use for dishes, pots and pans and it just says "Plastic Scourers."  That's all you need to get.  There used to be (and maybe still are) pot scrubbers made of copper -- which should not be used in fish tanks as this metal is toxic to fish -- but I tend to doubt they're being made anymore because of the price of copper having risen so much recently.   Ray   In a message dated 9/17/2013 6:05:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Is growing nitrifying bacteria on a cellulose sponge OK? I note that some people said to use pot scrubbers, but what kind exactly? There are cellulose, plastic, and coconut (or some kind of stringy brown stuff). Is there anything I should avoid? -Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55441	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: filter bags and nitrobacters

Hi Ken,   Do you rinse the media bags out in the old tank water that you remove during vacuuming? Just a suggestion as I don't know anything about your fish or system but I would not vacuum quite as much as every day because in a Goldfish tank you want to have a degree of waste-that is if you take too much out then it can actually be too clean. The nitrobacters-I call them good bugs-don't actually eat the fish waste or any other debris in the tank.What happens is the ammonia from decaying debris is eaten by the good bugs & converted to less harmful nitrate but this can also be toxic if left to accumulate & that is the reason for water changes-to dilute the nitrate to safe levels, typically below 40. Your fish sound like they are behaving just fine by grubbing through the gravel. In the wild Carps are opportunist feeders & will constantly be foraging around at the bottom of the lake or river for anything edible. When I feed my fish they make a point of going to the bottom & getting a mouthful of gravel-even when the food offered is floating pellets, I guess it tastes better with gravel! You are doing well to feed sparingly.   John<o)))< On 17 September 2013 00:57, megablasto2000 <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi all, Two questions. I have two goldfish. I have their tank set up an internal filter. It has a pin grid plastic thing that I think is for growing bacteria on it, and the other piece is a filter bag for media and waste removal. I added a second filter bag with ceramic pellets hung by a rubber band in front of the intake grill of the internal filter, and the wierd thing is, it doesn't seem like the hanging filter bag or the one inside the internal filter ever really gets very dirty at all. Do the nitrobacters or some other bacteria eat up all the fish poop? The ammonia and ph are great, and I gravel vaccuum almost every night. Also, why do my fish like to eat up and spit out the gravel? One of my fish does this ALL the time? Does it mean he's hungry? I'm careful not to overfeed them. Best regards, Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55442	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/17/2013
Subject: Re: nitrobacter media questions

Hi Ken,   I use the regular nylon pot scrubbers, have done for many years & they are completely inert. If in any doubt about the scrubbers then simply put one in a bucket of water for a few hours & see if there is any film on the surface, if there is then avoid.   John<o)))<   On 17 September 2013 13:36, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Ken,   You should avoid anything organic, such as natural coconut, as this will slowly deteriorate (rot) in water over time.  Most hobbyists using pot scrubbers use those made of plastic.  I'm not sure what you mean by "cellulose" in reference to pot scrubbers, but the term "cellulose" is usually used in context with plant matter as it's the major portion of all plant cell's walls.  I would avoid such pot scrubbers.  I just now pulled out of one of my kitchen cabinets, a small bag of two of the type of pot scrubbers I use for dishes, pots and pans and it just says "Plastic Scourers."  That's all you need to get.  There used to be (and maybe still are) pot scrubbers made of copper -- which should not be used in fish tanks as this metal is toxic to fish -- but I tend to doubt they're being made anymore because of the price of copper having risen so much recently.   Ray   In a message dated 9/17/2013 6:05:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Is growing nitrifying bacteria on a cellulose sponge OK? I note that some people said to use pot scrubbers, but what kind exactly? There are cellulose, plastic, and coconut (or some kind of stringy brown stuff). Is there anything I should avoid? -Ken B.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55443	From: Lynn	Date: 9/18/2013
Subject: Re: heaters ...again

Hi Paul, Thank you, that's what I needed to know Lynn At 01:57 PM 9/13/2013, you wrote:   HI    I use 25 watt Hydor heaters   (CD-18872)  in my 2 1/2 gallon aquariums.    My temperature stays at 78 all year long.     Paul

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55444	From: genealogyresearcher7	Date: 9/19/2013
Subject: Re: New group format.

Harry, I am just getting to manage my groups again as a move, family issues etc have kept me away. I see you have managed to change your into page to a picture that represents your group. Could you kindly email me at leafbyleaf@... and tell me how you change it. I can't even figure out how to tell if I am signed in as a owner much less a moderator. Know in time everyone will get use to this confusing format but need to change that bizarre picture on my groups. Thank you. Debbie --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Yahoo has rolled out a new group format as a surprise and at random. http://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?locale=en_US&y=PROD_GRPS&page=content&id=VI57 Some of you already have it. Eventually everyone will.The moderators will help as much as we can. They can't roll it back. Harry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55445	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/24/2013
Subject: A little project.

Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55446	From: harry perry	Date: 9/24/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Hi Al,      I would think you could just place a larger net and leave it sit on the bottom and place wafers in it a few times. When they get used to it just pick up the net. Or....I use two nets one to "scare" them into the other. Harry From: "al_keep_fish@..." <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:12 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A little project.   Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55447	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Hi Al, Harry has the best idea; I too always use two nets -- one to "guide" the fish into the waiting (still) net.  Netting any fish is most easily done immediately after first turning the lights on early in the morning.  The fish haven't yet had to time to completely wake up that fast to be able to respond as quickly to a net, if it's done within minutes of first light.  Almost as easy as "shooting fish in a barrel" < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 9/24/2013 9:53:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, harryfisherman@... writes:   Hi Al,      I would think you could just place a larger net and leave it sit on the bottom and place wafers in it a few times. When they get used to it just pick up the net. Or....I use two nets one to "scare" them into the other. Harry From: "al_keep_fish@..." <al_keep_fish@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:12 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] A little project.   Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55448	From: jett07002	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Al,   I am sorry I have no suggestions, getting fish out of a tank like that is always a problem.  Be innovative!! LOL   But, my question to you is, why would you use a full set up tank with plants, etc as a quarantine tank?  It should be a temporary, practically bare tank especially to avoid such situations.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55449	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

It just happened to be a temporary Q-tank cuzz it was a new setup; I'll be getting a small Q-tank shortly. I'm going to set up a small desktop tank to breed mts's for the dwarf puffers. Anyway; back to my project.   Well; I've thinkin' about it. I was imagining a small lobster trap kind of thing, but then I remembered that ottos can breathe air; and so while they would probably be ok, I think they would appreciate access to the surface. So I thought that I could get a breeding box that hangs on the side, and modify it to serve one more purpose as well. Or I could do it on the cheap, and just attach hooks to a plastic Tupperware type bowl. Then drill out a circle in the bottom, and silicone in a small plastic funnel, cut to where an otto could get in. I'll call it "Al's' otto box" Send in $9.99...... :-)>>> ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Al,   I am sorry I have no suggestions, getting fish out of a tank like that is always a problem.  Be innovative!! LOL   But, my question to you is, why would you use a full set up tank with plants, etc as a quarantine tank?  It should be a temporary, practically bare tank especially to avoid such situations.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55450	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/25/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Send us a picture when you build your contraption Al! If ever I have to net one of my Goldfish I only get the one chance, all very well catching small tropical fish but trying to net a fast 8" monster that is solid muscle is no mean feat-many times the wall behind the tank & myself have been drenched. I have to came at them from the rear & slightly below if possible then scoop them up. Once they see the net I am done for as they will all go & hide in the tunnel & laugh at me.   John<o)))< On 25 September 2013 20:35, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   It just happened to be a temporary Q-tank cuzz it was a new setup; I'll be getting a small Q-tank shortly. I'm going to set up a small desktop tank to breed mts's for the dwarf puffers. Anyway; back to my project.   Well; I've thinkin' about it. I was imagining a small lobster trap kind of thing, but then I remembered that ottos can breathe air; and so while they would probably be ok, I think they would appreciate access to the surface. So I thought that I could get a breeding box that hangs on the side, and modify it to serve one more purpose as well. Or I could do it on the cheap, and just attach hooks to a plastic Tupperware type bowl. Then drill out a circle in the bottom, and silicone in a small plastic funnel, cut to where an otto could get in. I'll call it "Al's' otto box" Send in $9.99...... :-)>>> ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Al,   I am sorry I have no suggestions, getting fish out of a tank like that is always a problem.  Be innovative!! LOL   But, my question to you is, why would you use a full set up tank with plants, etc as a quarantine tank?  It should be a temporary, practically bare tank especially to avoid such situations.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55451	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 9/27/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Having worked in a store and not having had the privilege of waiting things out or relying on traps to catch the fish that needed to go home with a customer, I'd like to offer some alternative suggestions.  A fish does NOT have to be chased to death to be caught, even in a planted tank.  All 350+ of our store sales tanks were fully planted except the large South/Central American cichlids.  Ottos were not the easiest to catch, but nor were they the most difficult.  Catching the fish without stressing them to death, especially because they were being relocated to new conditions at the customers home and having to survive the trip in a bag... was a 2 handed process, but 1 net.  1 hand is used to herd the fish towards the waiting net or to a bare corner where we could get the net under them.  Solid objects in the tank were removed first, so large rock pieces and driftwood came out of the tank.  If an otto refused to come out of a piece of wood then the wood was moved to another tank and the opening was set into a net so that when the fish did come out, the only place it had to go was into the net rather than into a tank where it didn't belong.  The opened end of the wood sat just below the water's surface with net under it, and the rest of the wood was left out of the water so the fish was coaxed towards the net.  They will seek out whatever part remains submerged. The key to success was to move slowly with that free hand, guiding the fish to the end of the tank where we wanted/needed it to be.  The other hand was used to hold the net, changing it's position as the fish moved towards it... but slow is the key.  For your situation, if the otto is located inside of a piece of wood, why not just move the whole piece of wood to the other tank for a couple of days?  Then the fish can come out of it at feeding time and you can remove the wood when you see that the fish has come out.  The wood itself becomes the trap in that situation and there is no stress involved.  The other thing I'd suggest is to herd the ottos towards the surface with your free hand so you can get the net beneath them, 1 fish at a time.  Ray's suggestion of doing this first thing when the lights come on is also a good one.  You can bait them by dropping an algae wafer into the tank, make sure it sits in the front near a corner without obstruction of anything solid (rock or wood) and give them 15 min or so to come out to start feeding, then turn on the light and be prepared to catch them right away.  Since you are not on a strict time limit, you can move 1 otto/day this way much easier than trying to move them all at once.  Good luck with your move. Dawn ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Send us a picture when you build your contraption Al! If ever I have to net one of my Goldfish I only get the one chance, all very well catching small tropical fish but trying to net a fast 8" monster that is solid muscle is no mean feat-many times the wall behind the tank & myself have been drenched. I have to came at them from the rear & slightly below if possible then scoop them up. Once they see the net I am done for as they will all go & hide in the tunnel & laugh at me.   John<o)))< On 25 September 2013 20:35, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   It just happened to be a temporary Q-tank cuzz it was a new setup; I'll be getting a small Q-tank shortly. I'm going to set up a small desktop tank to breed mts's for the dwarf puffers. Anyway; back to my project.   Well; I've thinkin' about it. I was imagining a small lobster trap kind of thing, but then I remembered that ottos can breathe air; and so while they would probably be ok, I think they would appreciate access to the surface. So I thought that I could get a breeding box that hangs on the side, and modify it to serve one more purpose as well. Or I could do it on the cheap, and just attach hooks to a plastic Tupperware type bowl. Then drill out a circle in the bottom, and silicone in a small plastic funnel, cut to where an otto could get in. I'll call it "Al's' otto box" Send in $9.99...... :-)>>> ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Al,   I am sorry I have no suggestions, getting fish out of a tank like that is always a problem.  Be innovative!! LOL   But, my question to you is, why would you use a full set up tank with plants, etc as a quarantine tank?  It should be a temporary, practically bare tank especially to avoid such situations.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55452	From: Mary Guido	Date: 9/28/2013
Subject: Re: A little project.

Google fish trap videos. You can make one from a liter soda bottle.  Alternatively, get a very large net to use as your trap and chase with a smaller net.  Sent from my iPhone, please forgive me if this seems short or there are typos.  --- My memory is not as good     as it once was, Also, my memory is not     as good as it once was.  --- Mary Guido magicmarymac@... 530-906-6917 On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:35, al_keep_fish@... wrote:   It just happened to be a temporary Q-tank cuzz it was a new setup; I'll be getting a small Q-tank shortly. I'm going to set up a small desktop tank to breed mts's for the dwarf puffers. Anyway; back to my project.   Well; I've thinkin' about it. I was imagining a small lobster trap kind of thing, but then I remembered that ottos can breathe air; and so while they would probably be ok, I think they would appreciate access to the surface. So I thought that I could get a breeding box that hangs on the side, and modify it to serve one more purpose as well. Or I could do it on the cheap, and just attach hooks to a plastic Tupperware type bowl. Then drill out a circle in the bottom, and silicone in a small plastic funnel, cut to where an otto could get in. I'll call it "Al's' otto box" Send in $9.99...... :-)>>> ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Al,   I am sorry I have no suggestions, getting fish out of a tank like that is always a problem.  Be innovative!! LOL   But, my question to you is, why would you use a full set up tank with plants, etc as a quarantine tank?  It should be a temporary, practically bare tank especially to avoid such situations.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi all. Question. Well; maybe some background first. On Monday, I will be wanting to take out 4 ottos out of my 10g planted. Now I have a fair number of plants in there, and a big piece of Mopani wood. Now while the wood is not unstable; with the addition of my hand and a net, in a fairly tightly filled space, all bets will be off. The ottos will go to the 40g main tank, to make room for it's permanent inhabitants; a male and a female dwarf puffer. The ottos have been in there to quarantine; I wanted to let the tank mature for a couple of months before it is pufferville. Back the problem of getting fast little fish out from a place that isn't very maneuverable. I've been thinking of a way with less stress to the fish, plants, and the human with the net. The thought came to me, "what about ...a trap." Put a couple wafers in it, and leave it overnight, and hopefully walah, a box full of ottos in the morning. Any thoughts on how I could build one, and what out of? No big hurry, it's a week away; I shall start putting some thought into it as well. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55453	From: janicedewire	Date: 9/29/2013
Subject: Hello

Hello my name is Janice, and I have a beautiful Betta, El Guapo, that I adore.  Recently my daughter and her boyfriend have come to stay and he has fish.  They have a large tank upstairs with fish, but the Oscars are downstairs in the familyroom.   LOVE these fish.  I also have 3 dogs, 6 cats (strays that have made themselves home here), a finch, and a fiddler crab.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55454	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/29/2013
Subject: Re: Hello

Hello Janice,   A big welcome here, to you, your Betta and all the rest of your animals.  Hope you enjoy a long stay on this group.  Let us know if there's any help you might need for your aquatic critters.  Yes, Oscars have a way of getting to a lot of people.   Ray       In a message dated 9/29/2013 11:45:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   Hello my name is Janice, and I have a beautiful Betta, El Guapo, that I adore.  Recently my daughter and her boyfriend have come to stay and he has fish.  They have a large tank upstairs with fish, but the Oscars are downstairs in the familyroom.   LOVE these fish.  I also have 3 dogs, 6 cats (strays that have made themselves home here), a finch, and a fiddler crab.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55455	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Hello Everyone

Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55456	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello

Hi Janice,   Welcome to the group.   John<o)))< On 30 September 2013 04:58, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hello Janice,   A big welcome here, to you, your Betta and all the rest of your animals.  Hope you enjoy a long stay on this group.  Let us know if there's any help you might need for your aquatic critters.  Yes, Oscars have a way of getting to a lot of people.   Ray       In a message dated 9/29/2013 11:45:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   Hello my name is Janice, and I have a beautiful Betta, El Guapo, that I adore.  Recently my daughter and her boyfriend have come to stay and he has fish.  They have a large tank upstairs with fish, but the Oscars are downstairs in the familyroom.   LOVE these fish.  I also have 3 dogs, 6 cats (strays that have made themselves home here), a finch, and a fiddler crab.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55457	From: adonaikam	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Ops... I should have left my name shouldn't I. I'm Jasmine from Australia ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55458	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group although I wasn't here when you last were! I keep large Goldfish & have no experience of Angels so I cannot give you any specifics on those type of fish but you will get plenty of help from the experts on here. You say that you set up a quarantine tank & will let it cycle for a couple of weeks, are you doing a fishless cycle on that? if you are just leaving it to run then it will stay sterile & never cycle because you need something to produce the ammonia which kick-starts the good bacteria in the filter. Same thing with the main tank, if you have no source of ammonia to start out then once you put your fish in, only then will it start to cycle because you will have a source of ammonia from the fish waste so leaving it running without doing anything is a waste of time, effort & money. Using fish to cycle a tank is never a good idea because even the hardiest individuals are exposed to increasingly high levels of toxic ammonia & then nitrite which could possibly weaken them & cause problems in later life. I would suggest doing a fishless cycle, have a look at this: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/tips-and-tricks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/ As I said earlier I have no knowledge of specifics for Angels so pH may be critical but using any of the artificial pH products can be counter-productive & some of them have a cumulative effect so your pH may suddenly shoot up or down uncontrollably & then you have to use another artificial product to bring it back into line. In my opinion you are adding more chemicals into your water & that can only be a bad thing in the long run. Many of the products available over the counter are just filling your tank with more chemicals & wasting your money. If you look at a breakdown of what is actually in our tap water you will see that there is already more than enough rubbish without artificially adding more! Like you I'm also against having carbon in a filter as a matter of course yet almost all manufacturers seem obsessed with supplying it as standard. Unless you have to remove toxins or medications from your water the space taken up by the carbon is far better used for more regular inert filter media such as ceramic chips/aragonite/polyester foam/bio balls etc etc because they have the potential to carry far more good bugs in the same space than carbon does.   John<o)))< On 30 September 2013 10:04, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Ops... I should have left my name shouldn't I. I'm Jasmine from Australia ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55459	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group.  Good to see that you're back in the hobby.  I don't know what kinds of fishes you had in your main tank previously, or if you've even mentioned what you had, but a 50 Liter (13 U.S. gallons or 11 Imperial/British gallons) is barely big enough to house two adult Angelfish -- and in a somewhat tight of a situation at that -- and most Bristlenose catfish reach an average of about 15+ cm. (6").  I would suggest foregoing both of these species unless you upgrade to a much larger tank of at least 75 Liters if you want to also include the other fishes you mentioned.  A 100 Liter tank would be better yet, which may sound enormous to some people but not in most aquarium circles.  Your 26 o C temperature may be reduced to between 24 o C and 25 o C as otherwise, it's a tad too high.  Best of luck with your newly planned aquarium.  Let us know how it goes and if you have any questions along the way.   Unless your pH is normally much higher or lower than neutral (7.0) you shouldn't at all need to add this new "Proper pH 7.0" to your tank.  For starters, it's name is misleading as a pH of 7.0 is not necessarily "proper."  The aquarium is not an environment to be used as a chemical sink, and ALL chemicals should be avoided with fish whenever possible as they'll do much better without them.  Of course, there are times when you need to add "chemicals" such as when using a water conditioner, but this is only to eliminate the danger of the very harmful water additives (chemicals) that your water company uses.     You don't need to use carbon, but if you do, be sure to change it out every 4 to 6 weeks -- depending on the size of your bioload.  While carbon removes impurities, your weekly maintenance schedule of changing out a portion (usually 1/4 to 1/3) of your tank's water for fresh tap water will remove any buildup up impurities -- unless your tap water contains impurities (other than chlorine or chloramine, which water conditioner will remove) .       Ray       In a message dated 9/30/2013 4:19:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55460	From: janicedewire	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Anyone with Oscars?

I'm wondering what everyone feeds their Oscars?  I've been feeding the "grandfishies" JumboMin large floating sticks.  I've noticed that within a few days the tank is foggy.  I've also heard from a couple people that beetles are a big favorite, along with fruits and vegetables.  Thank you, Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55461	From: sevenspringss	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Anyone with Oscars?

Janice,   Many hobbyists feed their Oscars Cichlid sticks and/or Cichlid pellets, the size of these foods dependent upon the size of the fish.  As with any food that's new (and untried) to a fish, it often takes some getting used to a food as, often they may not recognize it to be food until they've tried it.  The way to get a fish to try an unfamiliar food is to add some with their regular food at feeding time.  They'll soon get the idea that this is food too, and will then try it.  Once they've tried it and discovered it to be another food, they usually look for more the next time -- unless they just plain don't like it.  Don't expect any fish to eat a food that they've never been given before, though, until they've learned what it is.   Beetles can be a big favorite, again depending upon if they know it to be food.  Usually (but not always) a live food that moves in or across the water is recognized as food and tried without further coaxing.  Mealworms can be another favorite as also can be crickets.  Earthworms are a HUGE favorite with Oscars right off the bat.  Full adult size Oscars enjoy nightcrawlers.  For another dry food, give them freeze-dried krill; Tetra offers an irresistible one, and it can be fed whole for large Oscars or broken up into pieces for smaller ones.  They often go nuts over this food, once they know what it is.  Wardley's offers this food too, but it sometimes has more limited appeal.    How large (and how many) are the Oscars and what size tank are they in?  Sometimes, in grinding up a dry food between their "teeth" -- the plates in their throat -- they'll allow some excess crumbs/powder to exit past their gill plates which can cloud the water.  I've never heard of feeding Oscars fruits or veggies, but if they accept these foods, so much the better.  As they're primarily carnivores, they don't have a large digestive system to be able to properly break down plant matter, so it should be given to them more sparingly and as only a portion of their feeding at any one time when it is offered to them.   Ray       In a message dated 9/30/2013 2:25:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   I'm wondering what everyone feeds their Oscars?  I've been feeding the "grandfishies" JumboMin large floating sticks.  I've noticed that within a few days the tank is foggy.  I've also heard from a couple people that beetles are a big favorite, along with fruits and vegetables.  Thank you, Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55462	From: harry perry	Date: 9/30/2013
Subject: Re: Anyone with Oscars?

For food for your Oscars......You can buy crickets etc. at your local L.F.S. Bearded dragon hobbyists raise their own live food. Crickets, roaches (not the kind that can infest a house), meal worms butter worms. I can't see why you couldn't raise your own night crawlers. Just Google bearded dragon food. When they get to be about 14" long you can raise mice. Baby mice will make excellent food for huge fish. Harry From: "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Anyone with Oscars?   Janice,   Many hobbyists feed their Oscars Cichlid sticks and/or Cichlid pellets, the size of these foods dependent upon the size of the fish.  As with any food that's new (and untried) to a fish, it often takes some getting used to a food as, often they may not recognize it to be food until they've tried it.  The way to get a fish to try an unfamiliar food is to add some with their regular food at feeding time.  They'll soon get the idea that this is food too, and will then try it.  Once they've tried it and discovered it to be another food, they usually look for more the next time -- unless they just plain don't like it.  Don't expect any fish to eat a food that they've never been given before, though, until they've learned what it is.   Beetles can be a big favorite, again depending upon if they know it to be food.  Usually (but not always) a live food that moves in or across the water is recognized as food and tried without further coaxing.  Mealworms can be another favorite as also can be crickets.  Earthworms are a HUGE favorite with Oscars right off the bat.  Full adult size Oscars enjoy nightcrawlers.  For another dry food, give them freeze-dried krill; Tetra offers an irresistible one, and it can be fed whole for large Oscars or broken up into pieces for smaller ones.  They often go nuts over this food, once they know what it is.  Wardley's offers this food too, but it sometimes has more limited appeal.    How large (and how many) are the Oscars and what size tank are they in?  Sometimes, in grinding up a dry food between their "teeth" -- the plates in their throat -- they'll allow some excess crumbs/powder to exit past their gill plates which can cloud the water.  I've never heard of feeding Oscars fruits or veggies, but if they accept these foods, so much the better.  As they're primarily carnivores, they don't have a large digestive system to be able to properly break down plant matter, so it should be given to them more sparingly and as only a portion of their feeding at any one time when it is offered to them.   Ray       In a message dated 9/30/2013 2:25:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   I'm wondering what everyone feeds their Oscars?  I've been feeding the "grandfishies" JumboMin large floating sticks.  I've noticed that within a few days the tank is foggy.  I've also heard from a couple people that beetles are a big favorite, along with fruits and vegetables.  Thank you, Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55463	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/1/2013
Subject: Rockin' and rollin'

Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55464	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013

† Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. By: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference: Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.   Website: http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm Abstract:  A new fossil species of Coelacanth Fish of the genus Coelacanthus (Class Sarcopterygii, Subclass Crossopterygii, Order Coelacanthiformes, Family Coelacanthidae) from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum in Sharjah, United Arab Emirates is described. The origin of the specimen is unknown. The new fossil species is distinguished from the other ten Coelacanthus species by its slightly different skeletal, skull and fin features. It is morphologically distinct from the other ten species. The new species was named † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. Keywords:  Sarcopterygii, Coelacanthiformes, Coelacanthidae, Coelacanthus sharjah, Coelacanth, Sharjah Coelacanth, Arabian Coelacanth, Emirati Coelacanth, Fossil, New species, Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates, Near East, Middle East. Introduction: During a visit to Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum in Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates on Thursday 26.09.2013, I examined and took measurements of a Coelacanth Fish Fossil. After examining the Coelacanthus fish at Sharjah Natural History Museum, I began comparing between the different Coelacanthus fossil species.  There are ten Coelacanthus recognized species: † Coelacanthus banffensis Lambe, 1916; † Coelacanthus evolutus Beltan, 1980; † Coelacanthus gracilis Agassiz, 1844; † Coelacanthus granulatus Agassiz, 1836; † Coelacanthus harlemensis Winkler, 1871; † Coelacanthus lunzensis Reis, 1900; † Coelacanthus madagascariensis Woodward, 1910; † Coelacanthus minor Agassiz, 1844; † Coelacanthus welleri Eastman, 1908; † Coelacanthus whitea Lehman, 1952. The new fossil species † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 is distinguished from the other ten Coelacanthus species by its slightly different skeletal, skull and fin features. It is morphologically distinct from the other ten species. Description:  Coelacanthus ("Hollow Spine") is a genus of extinct coelacanths that first appeared during the Late Permian period, 251 million years ago. In fact, this was the first genus of coelacanths ever described by Louis Agassiz in 1836, as the order Coelacanthiformes is named after it. They bear a superficial similarity to the living Latimeria, though they were smaller, and had more elongated heads. Individuals grew up to 3 feet in length, and had small lobed fins, suggesting that Coelacanthus were open-water predators (Wikipedia). Coelacanthus was a long-lived genus with a worldwide distribution. They survived the Permian–Triassic extinction event, and eventually died out during the end of the Jurassic, 145.5 million years ago. Measurements of the Sharjah Coelacanth Fossil: Total length: 35.00 cm; Head from mouth tip to gill cover: 8.00 cm; Tail length: 9.00 cm; Head width at the gill cover: 9.00 cm; Body width in the middle (dorsal-ventral): 9 cm, tail base width: 6.5 cm; Anterior dorsal fin: 5.50 cm; Posterior dorsal fin: 4.50 cm; Pectoral fin: 6.50 cm; Pelvic fin: 5.50 cm; Anal fin: 5.00 cm; Tail rays: 6.00 cm.  Etymology / Derivation of the Scientific Name: Coelacanthus in New Latin literally: hollow spine; “Coel” indicating a cavity within a body or a hollow organ or part, from Greek “koilos” hollow + Greek “akanthos” spined, adj. derivative of “ákantha” spine, referring to the hollow caudal fin rays of the first fossil specimen described and named by Louis Agassiz in 1836. The Arabic species name “sharjah” refers to Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates where the fossil specimen is deposited at the Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum. Conclusion: After studying, examining and measuring the Coelacanthus fish fossil specimen at Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, and comparing with the different Coelacanthus species, and referring to many zoological references, and searching the Internet, I came finally to a conclusion that we are in front of a new Coelacanth fossil species.  I gave it the scientific name † Coelacanthus sharjah, new fossil species. The species name “sharjah” is for Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.  † Coelacanthus sharjah, new fossil species: Scientific Binomial name: † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 Authority: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa. Common Names: Sharjah Coelacanth, Arabian Coelacanth, Emirati Coelacanth. Holotype Fossil: CSNHM-1, 35.00 cm, Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.  Origin: Unknown.  Date of Study: 26th September, 2013. References and Internet Websites: Animals. Wikia. Indonesian Coelacanth. http://animals.wikia.com/wiki/Indonesian_Coelacanth                                         Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institution. Coelacanthus lepturus Agassiz. http://www.brlsi.org/museum-collections/online-museum/fossils/23760 BioLib. Genus Coelacanthus Agassiz, 1836 †. http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxontree/id706087/                                                   Bruton, M.N.; Cabral, A.J.P.; Fricke, H. (1992). First capture of a coelacanth, Latimeria chalumnae (Pisces, Latimeriidae), off Mozambique. S. Afr. J. Sci. 88. pp. 225—227.                                                                                                                    Butler, Carolyn. Bilder: Laurent Ballesta. Der Quastenflosser: Ein Fossil taucht auf. http://www.nationalgeographic.de/reportagen/der-quastenflosser-ein-fossil-taucht-auf                                                                                                  Coelacanthus, Quastenflosser aus NW-Deutschland. www.fossilweb.de/fossilien/quastenflosser/ Courtenay-Latimer, M. (1979). My story of the first coelacanth. Occas. Pap. Calif. Acad. Sci. 134. pp. 6-10.                                                                                               Culture Grid. Coelacanthus granulatus. http://www.culturegrid.org.uk/search/2747678.html                                       Egerton, P. (1850). New fish descriptions. A Monograph of the Permian Fossils of England, 233-236. † Coelacanthus caudalis Egerton 1850 (lobe-finned fish). http://paleodb.org/?a=basicTaxonInfo&taxon_no=149738                             Erdmann, M.V.; Caldwell, R.L.; Moosa, M.K. (1998). Indonesian `King of the sea' discovered. Nature 395: 335. Forey, P.L. (1998). History of the Coelacanth Fishes. Chapman & Hall, Londres. 365 p. Freepedia. Quastenflosser. http://de.freepedia.org/Quastenflosser.html Fricke, H. (1997). Living coelacanths: values, eco-ethics and human responsibility. Marine Ecology Progress Series 166, 231-236. Fricke, H.; Hissmann, K. (1994). Home range and migrations of the living coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae. Marine Biology 120, 171-180.                          Fricke, H.; Hissmann, K. (2000). Feeding ecology and evolutionary survival of the living coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae). Marine Biology 136, 379-386. Fricke, H.; K. Hissmann; J. Schauer; M. Erdmann; M.K. Moosa; R. Plante (2000). Biogeography of the Indonesian coelacanths. Nature 403, 38. Fricke, H.; K. Hissmann; J. Schauer; R. Plante (1995). Yet more danger for coelacanths. Nature 374, 314. Fricke, H.; K. Hissmann; J. Schauer; O. Reinicke; L. Kasang; R. Plante (1991). Habitat and population size of the coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae at Grande Comore. Environmental Biology of Fishes 32, 287-300. Fricke, H.; O. Reinicke; H. Hofer; W. Nachtigall (1987). Locomotion of the coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae in its natural environment. Nature 329, 331-333. Hissmann, K.; H. Fricke; J. Schauer (1998). Population monitoring of the coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae). Conservation Biology 12, 1-8. Hissmann, K.; H. Fricke; J. Schauer (2000). Patterns of time and space utilisation in coelacanths (Latimeria chalumnae), determined by ultrasonic telemetry. Marine Biology 136: 943-952. Huxley, T.H. (1861). Preliminary essay upon the systematic arrangement of the fishes of the Devonian epoch. Figures and descriptions illustrative of British organic remains. Mem. Geol. Surv. UK Dec. 10 (1861). pp. 1—40. Kappeler, Markus (1999). Komoren-Quastenflosser Latimeria chalumnae. Markus Kappeler / Groth AG. (erschienen in der WWF Conservation Stamp Collection, Groth AG, Unteraegeri). www.markuskappeler.ch/tex/texs/quastenflosser.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1980). Tabie’t Al-Talawon fi Al-Haywanat (The Colouration of Animals). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 1. January 1980, Safar 1401. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 4-5. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1981). Fawa'ed Alasmak. (The Benefits of Fishes). Al-Biology Magazine, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. Number 1. Sunday 7.6.1981, 5. Sha'ban 1401. pp. 54-55. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2. February 1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 14-15. (In Arabic).   Khalaf, Norman (Translator) (1982). Al-Miah Al-Mulawatha Tohaded Al-Asmak Bi’ilinqiraad (Water Pollution threatens the Fish Fauna with Extinction). Al-Biology Bulletin. Number 18, Third Year, First Semester, Saturday 6.11.1982. Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp. 7. (Translation from German into Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (1983). Al-Samaka Al-‘Auljumiyah Al-Naqaqa fi Al-Khaleej Al-Arabi [The Toad Fish (Batrachus grunniens) in the Arabian Gulf]. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 3, 23 November 1983. pp. 10-11. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali (Translator) (1983). Al-Tasjeel Al-Hay Al-Awal li-Samaket Kozat Al-Snobar (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn) min Al-Bahr Al-Ahmar [The Pinecone Fish (Monocentris japonicus, Houttuyn), A First Live Record from the Red Sea] by: Chaim Kropach. Bulletin of the Biological Studies Club, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. First Year, Number 4, 7.12.1983. pp. 6-8. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Schooling of Fishes. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 1-13. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1986). The Fish Fauna in Van Mildert Pond, Durham City, North East England. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 9. Fourth Year. Ramadan 1406. May 1986. Department of Zoology, University of Durham, Durham, United Kingdom. pp. 14-20. Khalaf, N.A.B. (1986). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). Dissertation, Master of Science in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year. July 1987. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Germany. pp. 1-8. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). On a Collection of Devon Period Animal Fossils from the Saarland, in the Geologische Museum Saarberg in Saarbrücken, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 15, Fifth Year, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH, July 1987 AD. pp. 9-10. Khalaf, Norman Ali B. (1987). The Great White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) from the State of Kuwait, Arabian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 16. Fifth Year. Safar 1408 AH. September 1987 AD. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali (1989). Qa’ema li-ba’d Asmak Al-Kuwait fi Al-Mathaf Al-‘Ilmi Bi-Dawlat Al-Kuwait (A List of some Kuwaiti Fishes from the Science & Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 19. Seventh Year. December 1989. Bonn 2-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 3. (In Arabic and English).                                Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). A Trip to Zoo Budapest, Hungary. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 21, Ninth Year, January 1991. pp. 1-4. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part One). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 23, Ninth Year, July 1991. pp. 1-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Two). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 24, Ninth Year, August 1991. pp. 1-10. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1991). The Gulf War and its effect on the Arabian Ecosystem (Part Three). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 25, Ninth Year, September 1991. pp. 1-7. Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). Notes on the Biological Ecology of the Marshes in Southern Iraq. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 29, Tenth Year, September 1992. pp. 1-9. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). The United Nations Ecological Report confirms: The Regime of Saddam is destroying the Marshes (Al-Ahwar) Ecosystem. Sawt Al-Kuwait International Newspaper. Saturday 17 October 1992, 21 Rabi’e Al-Thani 1412. pp. 15. (In Arabic).   Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1992). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Gazelle. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Federal Republic of Germany. Number 30, Tenth Year, October 1992. pp. 1-7. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B. (1993). Al-Mushkilatan Al-Ma’eyah wa Al-Bi’eyah fi Al-Dafah Al-Gharbiyah wa Qita’ Ghaza Al-Muhtalain (Ka-Juzu’ min Al-Sharq Al-Awsat) [The Water and the Ecological Problems in the Occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip (As Part of the Middle East)]. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 31. Eleventh Year. December 1993. Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1- 29. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (1994). An Introduction to the Animal Life in Palestine. Shqae’q Al-Nouma’n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 16-21. (In Arabic). Acquaintance Card: Majallet Al-Ghazzal (Gazelle Magazine): The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Bonn, Germany. Shqae’q Al-Nouma’n (Anemone coronaria). A Quarterly Magazine Issued by the Program EAI (Education for Awareness and for Involvement). Environmental Education / Children for Nature Protection. In Cooperation with Dept. of General and Higher Education. P.L.O., Palestine. Number 4. Huzairan (June) 1994. pp. 51-52. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali B.(1995). Alasmak fi Filistin (Die Fische von Palästina / The Fishes of Palestine). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 33. Thirteenth Year. December 1995. Bonn, Germany. pp.1-35. (In Arabic). Khalaf, Ali Bassam (1997). Amir Al-Bahar Al-Arabi (The Arabian Sea Prince) Shihab Al-Deen Ahmad Bin Majed. Magazin der Akademie. Nummer 1. Zu Elke’da 1417 H, Maerz 1997. Koenig Fahad Akademie – Bonn, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Deutschland. pp. 23-24. (in Arabic). Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (2001). The Extinct and Endangered Animals in Palestine. In: Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin Home Page. Extinct and Endangered Animals and Reintroduction. http://gazelle.8m.net/photo3.html Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2001). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Wale und Delphine. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wale_und_Delphine/                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2004). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Eine Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2004. / Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. A Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2004. Erste Auflage / First Edition, Juli 2004: 452 Seiten / Pages. Zweite erweiterte Auflage (Second Extended Edition), August 2004: 460 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Bonn-Bad Godesberg, Germany. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38. Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Story of Prophet Musa (Moses) and the Fish. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 14-15.                                Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Moses Perch (Lutjanus russelli, Bleeker 1849). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 15. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Fish of Musa (Samak Musa). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 38, Twenty-third Year, February 2005. pp. 16. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Samak Al-Luchs (Al-Hamoor) or the Orange-Spotted Grouper (Epinephelus coioides) in Palestine (Mediterranean Sea) and the United Arab Emirates (Arabian Gulf). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 1-6. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Jaffa (Yaffa): The History of an Old Palestinian Arab City on the Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 7-8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Andromeda Sea Monster of Jaffa. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 8. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Jewfish (Epinephelus itajara) / Der Riesenzackenbarsch oder Judenfisch (Epinephelus itajara). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Number 39, Twenty-third Year, March 2005. pp. 9-12. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Arabian Freshwater Fishes in the Arabia’s Wildlife Centre, Sharjah Desert Park, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 40, Twenty-third Year, April 2005. pp. 1-9. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Arabian_Freshwater_Fish.html Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/ Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Koran Angelfish (Pomacanthus semicirculatus, Cuvier, 1831). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 44. Twenty-third Year. August 2005. Jamada Alakhira 1426. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8.  http://koran-angelfish.webs.com/  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm   Khalaf, N.A.B. (2005). The Schooling of Sumatra Barbs (Barbus tetrazona tetrazona) and Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus). [M.Sc. Dissertation in Ecology, Departments of Zoology and Botany, University of Durham, England. September 1986. pps. 59 + iv]. In: Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005. Erste Auflage, August 2005. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 28-93. Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Rafah Zoo in the Rafah Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip, Palestine : A Story of Destruction by the Israeli Occupation Army. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 46, Twenty-third Year, October 2005, Ramadan 1426. pp. 1-11. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic). Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). The Qalqilia Zoo and the Natural History Museum in the City of Qalqilia, West Bank, Occupied Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 1-10. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic).   Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (Member of PALESTA) (2005). Palestinian Scientists and Technologists Abroad (PALESTA). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 47, Twenty-third Year, November 2005, Shawal 1426. pp. 11-12. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (In Arabic).   Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine: Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 56, Twenty-fourth Year, August 2006. pp. 8-19. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.                                               http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2006). Ein Besuch im Neunkircher Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Deutschland / A Visit to Neunkirchen Zoo, Neunkirchen, Saarland, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 59, November 2006. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (in Arabisch / Arabic). http://khalaf.homepage24.de/text_88839638_85658724_59480041_deutsch.html Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Zum 1. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The First Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palaestinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 62, Februar 2007, Muharram 1428 AH. Seite 11.  Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit Juni 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Palaestina. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Palaestina/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit August 2007). Haie – Sharks Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Haie_Sharks/ Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (Gründer) (seit September 2007). Yahoo! Deutschland Group: Fauna Arabica. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fauna_Arabica/                                                Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Haywanat Filistin (Fauna of Palestine). Wikipedia, Al-Mawsu'a Al-Hurra (The Free Encyclopedia). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 69, Twenty-fifth Year, September 2007 CE, Sha’ban 1428 AH. pp. 1-4. (in Arabic). http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) caught off the Kuwaiti Coast: The Second Record from the State of Kuwait, Arabian / Persian Gulf. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 1-20. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinkuwait.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Rhiniodon typus Smith, 1828 or Rhincodon typus Smith, 1829: The Story of a Scientific Name. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 21. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/rhiniodontypus.htm Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: A Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) rescued near the Tantura Beach, Carmel Coast, North Palestine: The First Record from the Palestinian Mediterranean Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 22-23. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). Whale Sharks in Palestinian Waters: Whale Sharks (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) near Um Al-Rashrash (Eilat) Beach, Gulf of Aqaba, South Palestine: First Records from the Palestinian Red Sea Coast. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 71, November 2007. pp. 23-26. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. (Abstract in English and Arabic). http://whale-shark.webs.com/            Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2007). An Ocean Sunfish or Common Mola (Mola mola, Linnaeus 1758) caught off the coast of Gaza: The First Record from Palestine, East Mediterranean Sea. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 72, December 2007, pp. 1-16. (Abstracts in English and Arabic). http://www.geocities.com/jaffacity/Gaza_Ocean_Sunfish.html                                     Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2008). Cetacea Palaestina: The Whales and Dolphins in Palestinian Waters. Cetacean Species Guide for Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 83, November 2008, Thu Al-Qi’ada 1429 AH. pp. 1-14. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://cetacea-palaestina.webs.com/                                                    Khalaf, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Zum 3. Todestag : Eine Persönlichkeit aus Jaffa, Palästina / The Third Death Anniversary : A Personality from Jaffa, Palestine : Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf (Abu Ali) (1938-2006). Gazelle: Das Palästinensische Biologische Bulletin. Nummer 86, Februar 2009, Safar 1430 AH. Seite 21.  Sharjah, Vereinigte Arabische Emirate. http://bassam-ali-taher-khalaf.webs.com/                                                                                                                              Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). A Longcomb Sawfish (Pristis zijsron Bleeker, 1851) caught off the coast of Dibba, United Arab Emirates, Gulf of Oman. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 88, April 2009, Rabi’e Al Thani 1430 AH. pp. 1-14. http://dibba-sawfish.webs.com/                                                                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr.Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Garra barreimiae wurayahi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Blind Cave Fish Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 90, June 2009, Jumada Al-Akhera 1430 AH. pp. 1-15. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-blind-cave-fish.webs.com/                                                                                        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Flora and Fauna in Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 91, July 2009, Rajab 1430 AH. pp. 1-31. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://flora-fauna-palestine.webs.com/                                                                                         Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Oreochromis mossambicus bassamkhalafi Khalaf, 2009 : A New Mozambique Tilapia Subspecies from Wadi Al Wurayah Pools, Emirate of Fujairah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 92, August 2009, Sha’ban 1430 AH. pp. 1-25. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://emirati-tilapia.webs.com/                                                                         Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2009). Fauna Palaestina – Part One. A Zoological Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1983 – 2006 / Fauna Palaestina – Teil Eins. Eine Zoologische Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1983 – 2006. ISBN 978-9948-03-865-8. Erste Auflage/First Edition, September 2009: 412 Seiten/Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa,  Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland.  http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart1.htm                                                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Bowmouth Guitarfish (Rhina ancylostoma Bloch & Schneider, 1801) at Sharjah Aquarium, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 93, September 2009, Ramadan 1430 AH. pp. 1-18. http://bowmouth-guitarfish-emirates.webs.com/bowmouthguitarfishuae.htm                                                Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2009). Whale Shark (Rhincodon typus, Smith 1828) Records from the United Arab Emirates between 1989 - 2009. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Twenty-seventh Year, Number 94, October 2009, Shawal 1430 AH. pp. 1-28. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://whale-shark.webs.com/whalesharkinemirates.htm                                   Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Zoologist, Ecologist and Geologist : The Scientific References (1980-2009). http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-references.webs.com/                                                                Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2010). Fauna Emiratus - Part One. Zoological Studies in the United Arab Emirates between 2004 - 2009. / Fauna Emiratus – Teil Eins. Zoologische Studien in die Vereinigten Arabischen Emirate zwischen 2004 - 2009. ISBN 978-9948-15-462-4. Erste Auflage/First Edition, November 2010: 350 Seiten / Pages. Self Publisher: Dr. Norman Ali Bassam Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates & Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunaemiratuspart1.htm      Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2012). Fauna Palaestina – Part Two. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 1983 – 2009 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Zwei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 1983 – 2009. ISBN 978-9948-16-667-2. 1. Auflage / First Edition : July 2012, Shaaban 1433 H. 208 Seiten / Pages (Arabic Part 120 Pages and the English Part 88 Pages). Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, Palestine. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart2.htm                                                                   Khalaf-von Jaffa, Dr. Norman Ali Bassam (2013). Fauna Palaestina – Part Three. Zoological Studies in Palestine between 2005 – 2012 / Fauna Palaestina - Teil Drei. Zoologische Studien in Palästina zwischen 2005 – 2012. ISBN 978-9950-383-35-7. Erste Auflage / First Edition : July 2013, Shaaban 1434 H. 364 pages (English Part 350 Pages and the Arabic Part 14 Pages). Publisher: Dar Al Jundi Publishing House, Jerusalem, State of Palestine. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/faunapalaestinapart3.htm                                                          Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Garra rufa wadiqana Khalaf, 2013: A New Freshwater Doctor Fish Subspecies from Wadi Qana Nature Reserve, Salfit Governorate, State of Palestine. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 – 6288. Number 103, July 2013, Ramadan 1434 AH. pp. 1-25. Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.  http://palestine-fishes.webs.com/palestine-doctor-fish                                     Khalaf-von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam (2013). Taxon Profile: Subspecies Garra rufa wadiqana Khalaf, 2013. BioLib.cz. Biological Library. http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1059609/                                                   Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Palestine Doctor Fish (Garra rufa wadiqana Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life. http://eol.org/collections/80813 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Picture of the new Coelacanth fish fossil † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 at Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. 26.09.2013. Flickr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/50022881@N00/9962145603/        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Taxon Profile: Species Sharjah Coelacanth Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. BioLib. Biological Library.  http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1068520/                Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Sharjah Coelacanth († Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life.   http://eol.org/collections/95987/       Lambers, Paul H.  (1991).The identity of the type specimen of Coelacanthus harlemensis Winkler (Pisces, Actinistia) from the lithographic limestone of Solnhofen (Tithonian), Bavaria. Paläontologische Zeitschrift, June 1991, Volume 65, Issue 1-2, pp 173-189. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02985782 Moy-Thomas, J. A. and T. S. Westoll (1935). On the Permian Coelacanth, Coelacanthus granulatus, Ag. Geological Magazine / Volume 72 / Issue 10 / October 1935, pp 446-457. http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=EC3D0054E699FBFFBDFC5B1B21A66DB1.journals?fromPage=online&aid=4904620                                    Moy-Thomas, J. A. &  E. I. White (1934). The Pectoral Fin of Coelacanthus tingleyensis. Nature 133, 499-499 (31 March 1934) | doi:10.1038/133499b0. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v133/n3361/abs/133499b0.html            Nature. Ancient Coelacanths: Coelacanthus banffensis and whitea sp. Amazing Story! http://nature.ca/discover/treasures/foss/tr2/coe_e.cfm                                        Pouyaud, Laurent; Wirjoatmodjoc, Soetikno; Rachmatikac, Ike; Tjakrawidjajac, Agus; Hadiatyc, Renny; Hadied, Wartono (1999). Une nouvelle espèce de coelacanthe. Preuves génétiques et morphologiques. A new species of coelacanth. Comptes rendus de l'Académie des sciences - Série III - Sciences de la vie / Life Sciences - 1999, 322, 261-267. www.elsevier.fr/html/news/cras3mars99/pouyaud.html Schauer, Juergen; Fricke, Hans. The Biology of the Coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae. www.orn.mpg.de/~hissmann/coela.html Schliewen, U.; Fricke, H.; Schartl, M.; Epplen, J.T.; Paeaebo, S. (1993). Which home for coelacanth?. Nature 363: 405. Smith, J.L.B. (1939). A living fish of mesozoic type. Nature 143. pp. 455— 456. Smith, J.L.B. (1956). Old Fourlegs: The Story of the Coelacanth. Longmans, Londres. The Fish out of Time. Coelacanth Information. www.dinofish.com/                                 The Fossil Forum. Coelacanthus granulatus, a Permian Coelacanth from Germany. 2011. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/18163-coelacanthus-granulatus-a-permian-coelacanth-from-germany/                                                   Wikipedia. Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth                                    Wikpedia. Coelacanthus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanthus                 Wikipedia. Quastenflosser. http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Quastenflosser

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55465	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55466	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Hi Al, Not knowing for sure what is inside of these rocks or specifically what type of rocks they are, there are a few things to watch out for.  1 is if it will alter water hardness or not.  Limestone is of course the most obvious, but there are other minerals that can alter hardness.  You can test this quite easily by setting them into a quarantine tank without fish, run a filter and get the temp up to match your tank, and then track the water hardness over the course of a few wks.  The other thing I would be concerned with would be heavy metals contained within.  While water conditioner will detoxify heavy metals found in your tap water, it has a limited ability if those heavy metals are present inside the tank in the form of rocks.  There really is no way to test for the many types of metal that could be present, which is why I agree with John's suggestion of maybe looking into sealing them with an aquarium safe sealant.  There is a clear sealant that is used on boats and it's marine safe (aquarium safe) that you might want to look into.  I don't know how expensive it is, but I would suggest checking with anywhere that does boat repairs or sells parts for boat repair.  Of course, another option would be to coat them in a thin layer of clear, aquarium safe silicone.  It depends on what final appearance is most pleasing to you, and of course, there is the financial end to consider. Hope this helps. Dawn ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55467	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/2/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55468	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Ya; spar varnish is great stuff; I've mentioned it here before. I've had rocks coated it, for years in my tanks, that didn't pass the test. It is costly; I think it was $15 for quite a small can... but anything for our pets. I know from my studies, not to use anything that looks as if it has fools gold in it.... ah well... we shall read on; and they shall go in. That's the thing with fishkeeping... you keep getting "degrees" in other things as well. If it wasn't for the study involved, would people like us enjoy this little hobby quite so much? I think not.   Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55469	From: dominick1008	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

I have african cichlids, and i use slate to create caves and different levels for them, I get the slate form outside, broken sidewalks, mostly. I wash them then boil them in a large pot a good 20 minutes, then let them cool and wash them. I make sure the slate isnt in a high traffic area, look for any chemical stains, tar, oil stains... there are tons of rocks to use out their, just have to use common sense in picking them.     On 10/03/13, al_keep_fish@... wrote:     Ya; spar varnish is great stuff; I've mentioned it here before. I've had rocks coated it, for years in my tanks, that didn't pass the test. It is costly; I think it was $15 for quite a small can... but anything for our pets. I know from my studies, not to use anything that looks as if it has fools gold in it.... ah well... we shall read on; and they shall go in. That's the thing with fishkeeping... you keep getting "degrees" in other things as well. If it wasn't for the study involved, would people like us enjoy this little hobby quite so much? I think not.   Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55470	From: jett07002	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Yes, I remember back a while the use of spar varnish to seal tanks, etc. being mentioned here.  I think it was Al asking the same question!!  LOL   BTW, I still have a few tanks that have the black putty to seal the bottom and corners.   Haven't leaked yet, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.  LOL    There was something about the stainless steel frame that made those aquariums picturesque.   My problem is I can't find spar varnish anywhere.   Can any one point me in the right direction or are they not making it any more.   I haven't used it in years and I don't need it for a tank but I do have some other projects where I would prefer a water tight seal.    Thanks.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55471	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Hi Joe & Ray,   Now you mention it I do remember that black aquarium sealant back in the 60s when I was a kid & we had a couple of Goldfish in a tiny tank. My Dad kept a detailed journal for most of his life so I found out that those Goldfish [which were won at a local fairground] lived for 7 & 4 years respectively in a tank the size of a shoebox which was unfiltered & only cleaned out when you couldn't see in for green algae.   John<o)))< On 3 October 2013 22:01, <jett07002@...> wrote:   Yes, I remember back a while the use of spar varnish to seal tanks, etc. being mentioned here.  I think it was Al asking the same question!!  LOL   BTW, I still have a few tanks that have the black putty to seal the bottom and corners.   Haven't leaked yet, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.  LOL    There was something about the stainless steel frame that made those aquariums picturesque.   My problem is I can't find spar varnish anywhere.   Can any one point me in the right direction or are they not making it any more.   I haven't used it in years and I don't need it for a tank but I do have some other projects where I would prefer a water tight seal.    Thanks.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55472	From: Kim Floyd	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

Try your local ACE hardware for Sparr Varnish.   Johmanda GRCH & CH Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs AKC Group placing & UKC BIS & RBIS www.johmanda.com   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002@... Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Rockin' and rollin'     Yes, I remember back a while the use of spar varnish to seal tanks, etc. being mentioned here.  I think it was Al asking the same question!!  LOL   BTW, I still have a few tanks that have the black putty to seal the bottom and corners.   Haven't leaked yet, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.  LOL    There was something about the stainless steel frame that made those aquariums picturesque.   My problem is I can't find spar varnish anywhere.   Can any one point me in the right direction or are they not making it any more.   I haven't used it in years and I don't need it for a tank but I do have some other projects where I would prefer a water tight seal.    Thanks.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<     On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55473	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

A very, very, very long time ago I bought Sparr varnish. I applied it to my hardwood bedroom floor. Still looks like new. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: "Kim Floyd" <johmanda@...> Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 17:11:09 -0400 To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Rockin' and rollin'   Try your local ACE hardware for Sparr Varnish.   Johmanda GRCH & CH Australian Terriers & Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs AKC Group placing & UKC BIS & RBIS www.johmanda.com   From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jett07002@... Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 5:01 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [AquaticLife] Rockin' and rollin'     Yes, I remember back a while the use of spar varnish to seal tanks, etc. being mentioned here.  I think it was Al asking the same question!!  LOL   BTW, I still have a few tanks that have the black putty to seal the bottom and corners.   Haven't leaked yet, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.  LOL    There was something about the stainless steel frame that made those aquariums picturesque.   My problem is I can't find spar varnish anywhere.   Can any one point me in the right direction or are they not making it any more.   I haven't used it in years and I don't need it for a tank but I do have some other projects where I would prefer a water tight seal.    Thanks.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<     On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55474	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/3/2013
Subject: Re: Rockin' and rollin'

It's used to seal the bottoms of wooden boats, so a marina would be another option if ya' can't find it at a hardware store. Al.  ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Hi Joe & Ray,   Now you mention it I do remember that black aquarium sealant back in the 60s when I was a kid & we had a couple of Goldfish in a tiny tank. My Dad kept a detailed journal for most of his life so I found out that those Goldfish [which were won at a local fairground] lived for 7 & 4 years respectively in a tank the size of a shoebox which was unfiltered & only cleaned out when you couldn't see in for green algae.   John<o)))< On 3 October 2013 22:01, <jett07002@...> wrote:   Yes, I remember back a while the use of spar varnish to seal tanks, etc. being mentioned here.  I think it was Al asking the same question!!  LOL   BTW, I still have a few tanks that have the black putty to seal the bottom and corners.   Haven't leaked yet, but I am keeping my fingers crossed.  LOL    There was something about the stainless steel frame that made those aquariums picturesque.   My problem is I can't find spar varnish anywhere.   Can any one point me in the right direction or are they not making it any more.   I haven't used it in years and I don't need it for a tank but I do have some other projects where I would prefer a water tight seal.    Thanks.   joe t ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: John, Al,   It was spar varnish which was recommended earlier this year, for this same purpose.  Back in the '30's, '40's and '50's spar varnish was regularly used to seal leaking tanks, so it was widely known not only that it was adverse to lifting off a submersed surface but that it was completely fish-safe.  I've used it myself back when (back when there were no glass tanks yet and all tanks were put together with a black aquarium putty).    Ray     In a message dated 10/2/2013 1:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Al,   Personally I am always wary of using anything like that which has not come from a reputable dealer, the reason being you simply cannot know what it may or may not harbour even after boiling/bleaching etc but I have to admit I have used wild-harvested rocks in the past but I wouldn't again. I believe there is an inert varnish which was mentioned on the group earlier this year that may be useful? I'm sure the OP will recall & advise.   John<o)))<   On 2 October 2013 02:36, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Anyone know about rocks here? I put pics of 6 new ones in my folder. I picked these up on the weekend, from where the foundation of the house was, that my great, great grandparents built, when I was at our yearly reunion. I will of course be doing the vinegar test, and soaking the ones that pass, in bleach; but I have read that the "vinegar limestone" thing, isn't the only thing to consider. I was just wondering if anyone here could see any possible problems with these rocks; I love using ones with some history attached. Thanks. Al.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55475	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle

Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle, Then Catches His Next Wave <http://www.care2.com/causes/mystery-surfer-saves-drowning-sea-turtle-then-catches-his-next-wave.html> Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55476	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle

Top man-thanks for posting! It's nice to see some good news for a change.   John<o)))< On 7 October 2013 22:06, Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...> wrote:   Mystery Surfer Saves Drowning Sea Turtle, Then Catches His Next Wave <http://www.care2.com/causes/mystery-surfer-saves-drowning-sea-turtle-then-catches-his-next-wave.html> Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55477	From: joseph7787	Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Aquatic plant trade for planted tanks?

Hello,   If interested in swapping any of your excess plants, please email me (josph7787@...) with details of what you have to trade. I have the following available for trade (USA only):   ·         Water Trumpet           (Scientific: Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green)  ·         Staurogyne Repens     (Scientific: Staurogyne Repens) ·         Hornwort                     (Scientific: Ceratophyllum Demersum) ·         Frogbit                         (Scientific: Limnobium spongia) ·         Java Moss                    (Scientific: Taxiphyllum barbieri)   Thank you Joseph www.endlers1.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55478	From: joseph7787	Date: 10/8/2013
Subject: Aquatic plant trade for planted tanks?

Hello,   If interested in swapping any of your excess plants, please email me (joseph7787@...) with details of what you have to trade. I have the following available for trade (USA only):   ·         Water Trumpet           (Scientific: Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green)  ·         Staurogyne Repens     (Scientific: Staurogyne Repens) ·         Hornwort                     (Scientific: Ceratophyllum Demersum) ·         Frogbit                         (Scientific: Limnobium spongia) ·         Java Moss                    (Scientific: Taxiphyllum barbieri)   Thank you Joseph www.endlers1.com

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55479	From: Tamara Burnett	Date: 10/9/2013
Subject: do Jack Dempseys change sex?

I have a breeding pair of Jack Dempsey who have produced many littler of fry. Now these fish are fighting like cats in a sack. The female is growing in size and is developing the jeweled coloration typically found on male Dempseys. The male Dempsey has been chasing her around relentlessly in an aggressive manner. This leads me to my next question. Do Jack Dempsey Cichlids spontaneously change sex? And, if so, why? Any thought on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tamara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55480	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/9/2013
Subject: Re: do Jack Dempseys change sex?

Hi Tamara   Gender transformation in Cichlids is unheard of.  There could be a number of reasons why this pair is not getting along at this time.  To even try to get near the answer, we'll need as much information about their set up as possible, as well as their previous behavior before this turn of events.     How large are they?  Have they increased in size appreciably from when they got along much better?  What size tank are they in?  How large are the PWC's?  Has there been any change recently in the size of the PWC's?  Has this recent behavior coincided either with larger PWC's or higher temperatures?  What type of lighting do you use?  Has there been any change recently, in the intensity of the lighting?  Are there any other fish in their tank?  Has there been any other fish in there tank that aren't in their tank any longer?  Are there any changes in the tank's decorations, plants, driftwood, rocks, etc.?  Have they bred recently?  What was the outcome if they have bred recently?  Anything else you can tell us?         Ray     In a message dated 10/9/2013 2:22:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tamara@... writes:   I have a breeding pair of Jack Dempsey who have produced many littler of fry. Now these fish are fighting like cats in a sack. The female is growing in size and is developing the jeweled coloration typically found on male Dempseys. The male Dempsey has been chasing her around relentlessly in an aggressive manner. This leads me to my next question. Do Jack Dempsey Cichlids spontaneously change sex? And, if so, why? Any thought on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tamara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55481	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: do Jack Dempseys change sex?

+1 to everything Ray has said.  I would like to add that changes in color & behavior can be due to stress and also due to maturity.  Dempsey's along with many other cichlids such as oscars, terrors, etc. cannot be sexed just based on coloration.  Their sexual organs are internal, so unless they are actually spawning where you can see the ovipositor (egg tube) of the female or are actually watching her lay eggs, there is no other way to sex those fish except an autopsy.  There tends to be a slight difference in size from male to female dempseys, but, like any other living creature, size is also determined by genetics, level of care, health, and a multitude of other things, so is not a reliable way to sex them.  My first questions would be those that Ray has already asked, in particular changes in size, tank size, and amount of decor in the tank & how it's positioned.  Is it possible for you to post a photo of the tank so we can see how it's decorated?  Cichlids are extremely territorial and have a tendency to rearrange their own tanks as they see fit.  This can cause a spark in aggression if there isn't enough for them to move to accomplish what it is they are needing at a given time.  And, just like people, females can turn on their male mates for no obvious reason, lol.  ;-)  Male/female pairs will still often fight/spar with each other. I noticed your mention of a growth spurt, which means it is possible they have outgrown their tank/environment and are feeling crowded.  This will spark aggression in otherwise peaceful fish.  Keep in mind that in a wild habitat their territory is measured in miles.  When one is feeling crowded or discontent with the area they are in or the fish around them, they have the ability to relocate.  This is an instinct that is thwarted when they are kept in an aquarium.  Appropriate tank size is about more than just waste levels and whether or not they will "fit" into a tank... it's also about allowing them enough space for their natural instincts/habits to be satisfied.  I find myself teaching this almost daily to people who claim their large cichlids have "plenty of space" in a 55 - 75 gallon tank, yet all the fish do is fight.  I've had a lot of people turn up their nose at me when I try to explain that even 75 gallons makes for a crowded environment for fish who grow beyond 6 - 8 inches... but any of them who have followed my advice and moved them into larger tanks see a sudden change in behavior almost immediately.    As if to support what I'm saying about that, my pair of geophagus isporangensis (Central American cichlids) have been sparring with each other for the past 2 wks and now the female has a wound on her upper lip that I've been watching closely to make sure infection doesn't set in until it heals.  There have been many times I have had to redecorate their tank to keep the peace in there because their own decorating only increased their aggression towards each other.  (and this is a 215 gallon tank with only four 10" & one 6" cichlids in it)  It is their personalities that I tend to love so much about these species of fish.  From day to day their moods change and you can never know ahead of time what to expect from them. Dawn   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Tamara   Gender transformation in Cichlids is unheard of.  There could be a number of reasons why this pair is not getting along at this time.  To even try to get near the answer, we'll need as much information about their set up as possible, as well as their previous behavior before this turn of events.     How large are they?  Have they increased in size appreciably from when they got along much better?  What size tank are they in?  How large are the PWC's?  Has there been any change recently in the size of the PWC's?  Has this recent behavior coincided either with larger PWC's or higher temperatures?  What type of lighting do you use?  Has there been any change recently, in the intensity of the lighting?  Are there any other fish in their tank?  Has there been any other fish in there tank that aren't in their tank any longer?  Are there any changes in the tank's decorations, plants, driftwood, rocks, etc.?  Have they bred recently?  What was the outcome if they have bred recently?  Anything else you can tell us?         Ray     In a message dated 10/9/2013 2:22:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tamara@... writes:   I have a breeding pair of Jack Dempsey who have produced many littler of fry. Now these fish are fighting like cats in a sack. The female is growing in size and is developing the jeweled coloration typically found on male Dempseys. The male Dempsey has been chasing her around relentlessly in an aggressive manner. This leads me to my next question. Do Jack Dempsey Cichlids spontaneously change sex? And, if so, why? Any thought on the matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tamara [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55482	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi John Sorry for the delay in responding.  My husband and I only just returned from a trip away. I will try and answer your questions. Yes, the main tank is set up and has been undergoing a fishless cycle.  Before we went away we added the following to the tank: Drift wood (which I had boiled to help reduce the tannin); Plants which were a new variety (Tissue cultured. We removed all the jelly compound at the roots before added it to the tank) and we also purchased a Christmas Island statue so the Bristlenose (when we purchase the have somewhere to hide).  When we got back from our trip, the tank now smells of petroleum.  Not sure what has caused it.  The charcoal that was in the filter system has been removed.  Half the water has been replaced but it still smells.  I know it's not the water because the 'emergency/quarantine tank' and the outside fish pond do not have the petroleum smell. Just can't work out what has caused the odour. Thank you for the hyperlink regarding a fishless cycle.  I certainly didn't do what it suggested, I did do 'some' of it.  But a fantastic link to have and read. Many years ago I use to be able to purchase peatmoss and that was what I used instead of carbon.  It was fantastic however, I have found out that its no longer available to be sold in Australia. I have taken the charcoal out of my main tank now and had to throw it and the bags out as it stunk of that petroleum/petrol smell. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group although I wasn't here when you last were! I keep large Goldfish & have no experience of Angels so I cannot give you any specifics on those type of fish but you will get plenty of help from the experts on here. You say that you set up a quarantine tank & will let it cycle for a couple of weeks, are you doing a fishless cycle on that? if you are just leaving it to run then it will stay sterile & never cycle because you need something to produce the ammonia which kick-starts the good bacteria in the filter. Same thing with the main tank, if you have no source of ammonia to start out then once you put your fish in, only then will it start to cycle because you will have a source of ammonia from the fish waste so leaving it running without doing anything is a waste of time, effort & money. Using fish to cycle a tank is never a good idea because even the hardiest individuals are exposed to increasingly high levels of toxic ammonia & then nitrite which could possibly weaken them & cause problems in later life. I would suggest doing a fishless cycle, have a look at this: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/tips-and-tricks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/ As I said earlier I have no knowledge of specifics for Angels so pH may be critical but using any of the artificial pH products can be counter-productive & some of them have a cumulative effect so your pH may suddenly shoot up or down uncontrollably & then you have to use another artificial product to bring it back into line. In my opinion you are adding more chemicals into your water & that can only be a bad thing in the long run. Many of the products available over the counter are just filling your tank with more chemicals & wasting your money. If you look at a breakdown of what is actually in our tap water you will see that there is already more than enough rubbish without artificially adding more! Like you I'm also against having carbon in a filter as a matter of course yet almost all manufacturers seem obsessed with supplying it as standard. Unless you have to remove toxins or medications from your water the space taken up by the carbon is far better used for more regular inert filter media such as ceramic chips/aragonite/polyester foam/bio balls etc etc because they have the potential to carry far more good bugs in the same space than carbon does.   John<o)))< On 30 September 2013 10:04, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Ops... I should have left my name shouldn't I. I'm Jasmine from Australia ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55483	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi Ray Sorry for the delay in responding.  My husband and I only just returned from a trip away. I noticed that my old photos are still present under the photo page.  There are a few shots of some of the fish we had back around 2009.  Folder name is Jasmine.  Awww looking at those photos, some of those fish were amazing. Previously we had a four foot tank.  We are not wanting one so large this time around. We mainly want a medium tank that is more manageable at present. Only wanting a pair of Angles, a pair of bristlenoes (oh, I don't think I could get a nicer one than I had previously - a photo of my old one is in my folder) . You would have noticed the comment I sent to John (previous post).  Our tank at present smells of petroleum.  I have no idea what has caused it but would love to know how to fix it.  Both the quarantine tank and outside pond don't have the smell so it must be something we added to that tank. There is one other thing I would like to know and that is, in the past when I cleaned the tanks and did the partial water change I would up-root all the plants to clean the gravel etc. Do I really have to do that? Thanks again Regards Jasmine   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group.  Good to see that you're back in the hobby.  I don't know what kinds of fishes you had in your main tank previously, or if you've even mentioned what you had, but a 50 Liter (13 U.S. gallons or 11 Imperial/British gallons) is barely big enough to house two adult Angelfish -- and in a somewhat tight of a situation at that -- and most Bristlenose catfish reach an average of about 15+ cm. (6").  I would suggest foregoing both of these species unless you upgrade to a much larger tank of at least 75 Liters if you want to also include the other fishes you mentioned.  A 100 Liter tank would be better yet, which may sound enormous to some people but not in most aquarium circles.  Your 26 o C temperature may be reduced to between 24 o C and 25 o C as otherwise, it's a tad too high.  Best of luck with your newly planned aquarium.  Let us know how it goes and if you have any questions along the way.   Unless your pH is normally much higher or lower than neutral (7.0) you shouldn't at all need to add this new "Proper pH 7.0" to your tank.  For starters, it's name is misleading as a pH of 7.0 is not necessarily "proper."  The aquarium is not an environment to be used as a chemical sink, and ALL chemicals should be avoided with fish whenever possible as they'll do much better without them.  Of course, there are times when you need to add "chemicals" such as when using a water conditioner, but this is only to eliminate the danger of the very harmful water additives (chemicals) that your water company uses.     You don't need to use carbon, but if you do, be sure to change it out every 4 to 6 weeks -- depending on the size of your bioload.  While carbon removes impurities, your weekly maintenance schedule of changing out a portion (usually 1/4 to 1/3) of your tank's water for fresh tap water will remove any buildup up impurities -- unless your tap water contains impurities (other than chlorine or chloramine, which water conditioner will remove) .       Ray       In a message dated 9/30/2013 4:19:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55484	From: adonaikam	Date: 10/10/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Garry When we had gouramis we found the got very territorial.  We had other fish in the tank and I'm afraid the gouramis weren't on the top of our list to keep so we ended up giving them away.   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <garrywilliams59@...> wrote: My names Garry and I ahve just started collecting fish, so far it is getting manic, I have now got 5 tanks, and a few fish, I have one tank with 2 gouramis and 3 molly's in, we had 3 gouramis but one was found dead this morning, I think it may be the Betta we had in the same tank as it was chasing this gourami around the day before so I removed it today into a seperate tank. I also have a number of goldfish in another tank, I kind of got hooked on them for some reason, especially the black moors, and I have some tetras 6 and a few barbs in there as well about 4. I am looking to build a bigger tank soon, and slowly move a few fish into it so I can get rid of the smaller tanks, so my question for today is. 1. can I put the Betta in with the mollys or which would all fit into together?. 2. One of the mollys is pregnant and so I went out and got a floating breeding tank but when do I put her in it and which of all these species will eat the fry if in the same tank with them. thanks Garry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55485	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi Jasmine,   It's easily understood that you prefer a tank that's more manageable, but the larger the quantity of water, the more stable would be it's chemistry.  I see you want a medium size tank this time, but a 50 Liter tank is not medium, it's small (too small) for the fish you plan to keep.  Some people have this size tank as their quarantine tank, although most use about a 25 Liter tank for that purpose.   As for the petroleum smell, have you added driftwood to this tank?  I can't think of anything else that would cause this odor, but if I do I'll let you know.  A guess might be the filter (not the tank), of which the media needs a more thorough rinsing (in a bucket of some of the old aquarium water you're removing during PWCing).   I don't know whatever gave you the impression to uproot your plants every time you cleaned your tank -- and I'm assuming you mean when vacuuming the gravel(?).  Live plants need not (and should not) be uprooted once they're planted.  To keep disturbing them is to constantly be setting them back in being able to establish themselves in the substrate; you can't expect them to do nearly as well.  When gravel-vacuuming in their area, just don't go as deep or quite as near to their crowns.  If you're not vacuuming, and just moving there top layer of gravel around by hand to ensure the dirt becomes water-born for syphoning, leave the plants where they are and stir the gravel lightly around them with somewhat heavier stirring further away from them.  Vacuuming is preferred over stirring though, as the dirt takes a one-way trip out of the tank.    Ray     In a message dated 10/11/2013 1:52:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Hi Ray Sorry for the delay in responding.  My husband and I only just returned from a trip away. I noticed that my old photos are still present under the photo page.  There are a few shots of some of the fish we had back around 2009.  Folder name is Jasmine.  Awww looking at those photos, some of those fish were amazing. Previously we had a four foot tank.  We are not wanting one so large this time around. We mainly want a medium tank that is more manageable at present. Only wanting a pair of Angles, a pair of bristlenoes (oh, I don't think I could get a nicer one than I had previously - a photo of my old one is in my folder) . You would have noticed the comment I sent to John (previous post).  Our tank at present smells of petroleum.  I have no idea what has caused it but would love to know how to fix it.  Both the quarantine tank and outside pond don't have the smell so it must be something we added to that tank. There is one other thing I would like to know and that is, in the past when I cleaned the tanks and did the partial water change I would up-root all the plants to clean the gravel etc. Do I really have to do that? Thanks again Regards Jasmine   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group.  Good to see that you're back in the hobby.  I don't know what kinds of fishes you had in your main tank previously, or if you've even mentioned what you had, but a 50 Liter (13 U.S. gallons or 11 Imperial/British gallons) is barely big enough to house two adult Angelfish -- and in a somewhat tight of a situation at that -- and most Bristlenose catfish reach an average of about 15+ cm. (6").  I would suggest foregoing both of these species unless you upgrade to a much larger tank of at least 75 Liters if you want to also include the other fishes you mentioned.  A 100 Liter tank would be better yet, which may sound enormous to some people but not in most aquarium circles.  Your 26 o C temperature may be reduced to between 24 o C and 25 o C as otherwise, it's a tad too high.  Best of luck with your newly planned aquarium.  Let us know how it goes and if you have any questions along the way.   Unless your pH is normally much higher or lower than neutral (7.0) you shouldn't at all need to add this new "Proper pH 7.0" to your tank.  For starters, it's name is misleading as a pH of 7.0 is not necessarily "proper."  The aquarium is not an environment to be used as a chemical sink, and ALL chemicals should be avoided with fish whenever possible as they'll do much better without them.  Of course, there are times when you need to add "chemicals" such as when using a water conditioner, but this is only to eliminate the danger of the very harmful water additives (chemicals) that your water company uses.     You don't need to use carbon, but if you do, be sure to change it out every 4 to 6 weeks -- depending on the size of your bioload.  While carbon removes impurities, your weekly maintenance schedule of changing out a portion (usually 1/4 to 1/3) of your tank's water for fresh tap water will remove any buildup up impurities -- unless your tap water contains impurities (other than chlorine or chloramine, which water conditioner will remove) .       Ray       In a message dated 9/30/2013 4:19:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55486	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Looks like I'm not receiving all of my Yahoogroup mail from this group; another fine feature of this new "Neo" Yahoo.  Haven't seen Garry's post up until now, only through Jasmine's message -- so for Garry:   It's possible, even if not certain, that this Betta may have killed the Gourami although it could have died of other causes.  We can't put a blanket statement on Bettas as them having this trait of killing other fishes (other than other Bettas), as each Betta is different in their "personalities."  Moving the Betta to another tank may have been a good move in any case, if only to assure no other Gouramis get kill by him.  Some Bettas see another fish in their own fish Family as similar enough to their own species to warrant attack on them.  Likewise, yet other Bettas see any long-finned fish, even fancy Guppies, as a possible male of their own species and attack them, even if most Bettas don't.   I notice you have some Tetras and Barbs in with you Black Moors.  As these goldfish have different temperature requirements than these tropical fishes, they should be kept in their own, unheated, aquarium.    Depending on the size of the tank, your Betta may be able to go in with your Mollies, but you'll need to keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't go after these other fish.  I had a Betta in a community tank that would swim up very slowly next to Angelfish and then once along side them, would attack their eyes.  I know this is not the normal behavior of all Bettas, but like I said, they're all different. Mollies -- and any other large Livebearers (Swordtails, etc.) -- should not be put in breeding traps as this confinement often stresses them enough to the point of them aborting their fry prematurely.  I don't know exactly what you mean by breeding "tank," or what size this floating "tank" is, but if it's one of those small 4" x 6" traps this apparatus is best left for Guppies (and maybe Platy's).  If sufficient safety of the fry cannot be assured in the female's own tank, it should be removed to another planted tank of its own, without removing it from the water, i.e., you may net it -- using two nets so as not to stress it with a long chase -- and place it in a small submersed container of water while still in her tank to be transferred to her private tank of similar water conditions.  Sometimes (often), removing the female from the water via a net will be too much stress for her in preventing premature birth.   Ray       In a message dated 10/11/2013 1:53:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Garry When we had gouramis we found the got very territorial.  We had other fish in the tank and I'm afraid the gouramis weren't on the top of our list to keep so we ended up giving them away.   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <garrywilliams59@...> wrote: My names Garry and I ahve just started collecting fish, so far it is getting manic, I have now got 5 tanks, and a few fish, I have one tank with 2 gouramis and 3 molly's in, we had 3 gouramis but one was found dead this morning, I think it may be the Betta we had in the same tank as it was chasing this gourami around the day before so I removed it today into a seperate tank. I also have a number of goldfish in another tank, I kind of got hooked on them for some reason, especially the black moors, and I have some tetras 6 and a few barbs in there as well about 4. I am looking to build a bigger tank soon, and slowly move a few fish into it so I can get rid of the smaller tanks, so my question for today is. 1. can I put the Betta in with the mollys or which would all fit into together?. 2. One of the mollys is pregnant and so I went out and got a floating breeding tank but when do I put her in it and which of all these species will eat the fry if in the same tank with them. thanks Garry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55487	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: My Oscar has swollen lips

One of the Oscars recently has gotten lethargic, loss of appetite, and hangs out on the bottom of his tank.  I have another Oscar in there with him that is doing just fine,no difference what so ever...The Oscar not doing well is about 4 inches long, and the other is about 3 inches long. I've never seen any fighting at all.  The smaller one follows the larger every second of her life...Always side by side rubbing against the other delicately.   Also, it seems maybe his lips might be a bit swollen.  The tank is clean.  Do a 50 percent water change weekly.  Filters are clean.  Temp is at 80 degrees. There have been NO changes what so ever to their environment.  I'm really worried.  Thank you Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55488	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Hi Jasmine,   I can't imagine what the petroleum smell is but I would guess it has something to do with the condition of the tank without fish-you say you are doing 'some' of the fishless cycle method, if you are not adding some kind of ammonia or fish food to break down to ammonia then you will likely have problems getting it fish-ready. Can you tell us your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & pH readings please?   John<o)))< ps-Ray, Garry's post didn't appeaar on my computer either until Jasmine replied to it. On 11 October 2013 05:56, <adonaikam@...> wrote:     Hi John Sorry for the delay in responding.  My husband and I only just returned from a trip away. I will try and answer your questions. Yes, the main tank is set up and has been undergoing a fishless cycle.  Before we went away we added the following to the tank: Drift wood (which I had boiled to help reduce the tannin); Plants which were a new variety (Tissue cultured. We removed all the jelly compound at the roots before added it to the tank) and we also purchased a Christmas Island statue so the Bristlenose (when we purchase the have somewhere to hide).  When we got back from our trip, the tank now smells of petroleum.  Not sure what has caused it.  The charcoal that was in the filter system has been removed.  Half the water has been replaced but it still smells.  I know it's not the water because the 'emergency/quarantine tank' and the outside fish pond do not have the petroleum smell. Just can't work out what has caused the odour. Thank you for the hyperlink regarding a fishless cycle.  I certainly didn't do what it suggested, I did do 'some' of it.  But a fantastic link to have and read. Many years ago I use to be able to purchase peatmoss and that was what I used instead of carbon.  It was fantastic however, I have found out that its no longer available to be sold in Australia. I have taken the charcoal out of my main tank now and had to throw it and the bags out as it stunk of that petroleum/petrol smell. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi Jasmine,   Welcome back to the group although I wasn't here when you last were! I keep large Goldfish & have no experience of Angels so I cannot give you any specifics on those type of fish but you will get plenty of help from the experts on here. You say that you set up a quarantine tank & will let it cycle for a couple of weeks, are you doing a fishless cycle on that? if you are just leaving it to run then it will stay sterile & never cycle because you need something to produce the ammonia which kick-starts the good bacteria in the filter. Same thing with the main tank, if you have no source of ammonia to start out then once you put your fish in, only then will it start to cycle because you will have a source of ammonia from the fish waste so leaving it running without doing anything is a waste of time, effort & money. Using fish to cycle a tank is never a good idea because even the hardiest individuals are exposed to increasingly high levels of toxic ammonia & then nitrite which could possibly weaken them & cause problems in later life. I would suggest doing a fishless cycle, have a look at this: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/tips-and-tricks-for-your-fastest-fishless-cycle/ As I said earlier I have no knowledge of specifics for Angels so pH may be critical but using any of the artificial pH products can be counter-productive & some of them have a cumulative effect so your pH may suddenly shoot up or down uncontrollably & then you have to use another artificial product to bring it back into line. In my opinion you are adding more chemicals into your water & that can only be a bad thing in the long run. Many of the products available over the counter are just filling your tank with more chemicals & wasting your money. If you look at a breakdown of what is actually in our tap water you will see that there is already more than enough rubbish without artificially adding more! Like you I'm also against having carbon in a filter as a matter of course yet almost all manufacturers seem obsessed with supplying it as standard. Unless you have to remove toxins or medications from your water the space taken up by the carbon is far better used for more regular inert filter media such as ceramic chips/aragonite/polyester foam/bio balls etc etc because they have the potential to carry far more good bugs in the same space than carbon does.   John<o)))< On 30 September 2013 10:04, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Ops... I should have left my name shouldn't I. I'm Jasmine from Australia ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi. Its been many years and finally coming back ;-) Hope everyone is well.  I think last time I was chatting was 2009 but could be wrong. I ended up getting rid of all my fish and tanks as I couldn't put the time into keeping them as I should ( both mum and brother got sick so I was traveling a lot and away from home - at the most, 6months). Anyway, My husband wants to start up another tank - this time mainly for Angels.  I would like your advice on how to best set it up.  I want to get it right from the start. We set up the quarantine tank this afternoon (20liters). It just has filter and heater.  Will let it cycle for a couple of weeks. Main tank, 50 Liters. It currently has some medium and short plants in it. Drift wood. Filter. heater set 26 degrees Celsius. gravel and a hide hole for the bristle nose when we get them.  Currently no fish in the tank.  We have 'Proper pH 7.0' in the tank.  Apparently its a new thing that causes the pH to auto adjust/stablilse to 7.0 With my filter, I am uncomfortable with having carbon in it.  Should i use carbon? Once both tanks have cycled for another month we will start to get our fish.  We will be getting bristle noses, tetras (any sort) and Angels.  We will probably do it in that order one at a time. Chat soon

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55489	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips

Janice,   Please give us your water parameters (in numbers).  Can you tell us more about your maintenance regimen?  Gravel vacuuming, filter media cleaning or renewal/changing, etc.?  Any change in the color of the gravel from its surface to its depths?  How long was this tank set up?  What are you feeding, and how much (how long does it take for them to eat a feeding)?   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   One of the Oscars recently has gotten lethargic, loss of appetite, and hangs out on the bottom of his tank.  I have another Oscar in there with him that is doing just fine,no difference what so ever...The Oscar not doing well is about 4 inches long, and the other is about 3 inches long. I've never seen any fighting at all.  The smaller one follows the larger every second of her life...Always side by side rubbing against the other delicately.   Also, it seems maybe his lips might be a bit swollen.  The tank is clean.  Do a 50 percent water change weekly.  Filters are clean.  Temp is at 80 degrees. There have been NO changes what so ever to their environment.  I'm really worried.  Thank you Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55490	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/11/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Looks also like the Neo-Yahoo group is delaying many messages from being posted, as the one I sent below was submitted about 8 AM EDT -- not 3;40 AM EDT, it was received back in my inbox.  This present message is being sent @ 1:54 AM (10/12/13); we;ll see if it goes through immediately, or . . .   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sevenspringss1@... writes:   Looks like I'm not receiving all of my Yahoogroup mail from this group; another fine feature of this new "Neo" Yahoo.  Haven't seen Garry's post up until now, only through Jasmine's message -- so for Garry:   It's possible, even if not certain, that this Betta may have killed the Gourami although it could have died of other causes.  We can't put a blanket statement on Bettas as them having this trait of killing other fishes (other than other Bettas), as each Betta is different in their "personalities."  Moving the Betta to another tank may have been a good move in any case, if only to assure no other Gouramis get kill by him.  Some Bettas see another fish in their own fish Family as similar enough to their own species to warrant attack on them.  Likewise, yet other Bettas see any long-finned fish, even fancy Guppies, as a possible male of their own species and attack them, even if most Bettas don't.   I notice you have some Tetras and Barbs in with you Black Moors.  As these goldfish have different temperature requirements than these tropical fishes, they should be kept in their own, unheated, aquarium.    Depending on the size of the tank, your Betta may be able to go in with your Mollies, but you'll need to keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't go after these other fish.  I had a Betta in a community tank that would swim up very slowly next to Angelfish and then once along side them, would attack their eyes.  I know this is not the normal behavior of all Bettas, but like I said, they're all different. Mollies -- and any other large Livebearers (Swordtails, etc.) -- should not be put in breeding traps as this confinement often stresses them enough to the point of them aborting their fry prematurely.  I don't know exactly what you mean by breeding "tank," or what size this floating "tank" is, but if it's one of those small 4" x 6" traps this apparatus is best left for Guppies (and maybe Platy's).  If sufficient safety of the fry cannot be assured in the female's own tank, it should be removed to another planted tank of its own, without removing it from the water, i.e., you may net it -- using two nets so as not to stress it with a long chase -- and place it in a small submersed container of water while still in her tank to be transferred to her private tank of similar water conditions.  Sometimes (often), removing the female from the water via a net will be too much stress for her in preventing premature birth.   Ray       In a message dated 10/11/2013 1:53:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Garry When we had gouramis we found the got very territorial.  We had other fish in the tank and I'm afraid the gouramis weren't on the top of our list to keep so we ended up giving them away.   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <garrywilliams59@...> wrote: My names Garry and I ahve just started collecting fish, so far it is getting manic, I have now got 5 tanks, and a few fish, I have one tank with 2 gouramis and 3 molly's in, we had 3 gouramis but one was found dead this morning, I think it may be the Betta we had in the same tank as it was chasing this gourami around the day before so I removed it today into a seperate tank. I also have a number of goldfish in another tank, I kind of got hooked on them for some reason, especially the black moors, and I have some tetras 6 and a few barbs in there as well about 4. I am looking to build a bigger tank soon, and slowly move a few fish into it so I can get rid of the smaller tanks, so my question for today is. 1. can I put the Betta in with the mollys or which would all fit into together?. 2. One of the mollys is pregnant and so I went out and got a floating breeding tank but when do I put her in it and which of all these species will eat the fry if in the same tank with them. thanks Garry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55491	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

That one looks fine to me Ray, you are on EST so 5 hours behind GB & I got it at 0656.   John<o)))<   On 12 October 2013 06:56, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Looks also like the Neo-Yahoo group is delaying many messages from being posted, as the one I sent below was submitted about 8 AM EDT -- not 3;40 AM EDT, it was received back in my inbox.  This present message is being sent @ 1:54 AM (10/12/13); we;ll see if it goes through immediately, or . . .   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sevenspringss1@... writes:   Looks like I'm not receiving all of my Yahoogroup mail from this group; another fine feature of this new "Neo" Yahoo.  Haven't seen Garry's post up until now, only through Jasmine's message -- so for Garry:   It's possible, even if not certain, that this Betta may have killed the Gourami although it could have died of other causes.  We can't put a blanket statement on Bettas as them having this trait of killing other fishes (other than other Bettas), as each Betta is different in their "personalities."  Moving the Betta to another tank may have been a good move in any case, if only to assure no other Gouramis get kill by him.  Some Bettas see another fish in their own fish Family as similar enough to their own species to warrant attack on them.  Likewise, yet other Bettas see any long-finned fish, even fancy Guppies, as a possible male of their own species and attack them, even if most Bettas don't.   I notice you have some Tetras and Barbs in with you Black Moors.  As these goldfish have different temperature requirements than these tropical fishes, they should be kept in their own, unheated, aquarium.    Depending on the size of the tank, your Betta may be able to go in with your Mollies, but you'll need to keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't go after these other fish.  I had a Betta in a community tank that would swim up very slowly next to Angelfish and then once along side them, would attack their eyes.  I know this is not the normal behavior of all Bettas, but like I said, they're all different. Mollies -- and any other large Livebearers (Swordtails, etc.) -- should not be put in breeding traps as this confinement often stresses them enough to the point of them aborting their fry prematurely.  I don't know exactly what you mean by breeding "tank," or what size this floating "tank" is, but if it's one of those small 4" x 6" traps this apparatus is best left for Guppies (and maybe Platy's).  If sufficient safety of the fry cannot be assured in the female's own tank, it should be removed to another planted tank of its own, without removing it from the water, i.e., you may net it -- using two nets so as not to stress it with a long chase -- and place it in a small submersed container of water while still in her tank to be transferred to her private tank of similar water conditions.  Sometimes (often), removing the female from the water via a net will be too much stress for her in preventing premature birth.   Ray       In a message dated 10/11/2013 1:53:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Garry When we had gouramis we found the got very territorial.  We had other fish in the tank and I'm afraid the gouramis weren't on the top of our list to keep so we ended up giving them away.   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <garrywilliams59@...> wrote: My names Garry and I ahve just started collecting fish, so far it is getting manic, I have now got 5 tanks, and a few fish, I have one tank with 2 gouramis and 3 molly's in, we had 3 gouramis but one was found dead this morning, I think it may be the Betta we had in the same tank as it was chasing this gourami around the day before so I removed it today into a seperate tank. I also have a number of goldfish in another tank, I kind of got hooked on them for some reason, especially the black moors, and I have some tetras 6 and a few barbs in there as well about 4. I am looking to build a bigger tank soon, and slowly move a few fish into it so I can get rid of the smaller tanks, so my question for today is. 1. can I put the Betta in with the mollys or which would all fit into together?. 2. One of the mollys is pregnant and so I went out and got a floating breeding tank but when do I put her in it and which of all these species will eat the fry if in the same tank with them. thanks Garry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55492	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone

Yeah, surprisingly this one went right through, John.  It wasn't delayed over 9 hours like the previous one.  Could be this one wasn't held up because there's not much other emailing going on at that early hour of the morning here that I sent it.  I wouldn't be surprised if other members' posts are sometimes being delayed.   Ray   In a message dated 10/12/2013 6:25:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   That one looks fine to me Ray, you are on EST so 5 hours behind GB & I got it at 0656.   John<o)))<   On 12 October 2013 06:56, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Looks also like the Neo-Yahoo group is delaying many messages from being posted, as the one I sent below was submitted about 8 AM EDT -- not 3;40 AM EDT, it was received back in my inbox.  This present message is being sent @ 1:54 AM (10/12/13); we;ll see if it goes through immediately, or . . .   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sevenspringss1@... writes:   Looks like I'm not receiving all of my Yahoogroup mail from this group; another fine feature of this new "Neo" Yahoo.  Haven't seen Garry's post up until now, only through Jasmine's message -- so for Garry:   It's possible, even if not certain, that this Betta may have killed the Gourami although it could have died of other causes.  We can't put a blanket statement on Bettas as them having this trait of killing other fishes (other than other Bettas), as each Betta is different in their "personalities."  Moving the Betta to another tank may have been a good move in any case, if only to assure no other Gouramis get kill by him.  Some Bettas see another fish in their own fish Family as similar enough to their own species to warrant attack on them.  Likewise, yet other Bettas see any long-finned fish, even fancy Guppies, as a possible male of their own species and attack them, even if most Bettas don't.   I notice you have some Tetras and Barbs in with you Black Moors.  As these goldfish have different temperature requirements than these tropical fishes, they should be kept in their own, unheated, aquarium.    Depending on the size of the tank, your Betta may be able to go in with your Mollies, but you'll need to keep a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't go after these other fish.  I had a Betta in a community tank that would swim up very slowly next to Angelfish and then once along side them, would attack their eyes.  I know this is not the normal behavior of all Bettas, but like I said, they're all different. Mollies -- and any other large Livebearers (Swordtails, etc.) -- should not be put in breeding traps as this confinement often stresses them enough to the point of them aborting their fry prematurely.  I don't know exactly what you mean by breeding "tank," or what size this floating "tank" is, but if it's one of those small 4" x 6" traps this apparatus is best left for Guppies (and maybe Platy's).  If sufficient safety of the fry cannot be assured in the female's own tank, it should be removed to another planted tank of its own, without removing it from the water, i.e., you may net it -- using two nets so as not to stress it with a long chase -- and place it in a small submersed container of water while still in her tank to be transferred to her private tank of similar water conditions.  Sometimes (often), removing the female from the water via a net will be too much stress for her in preventing premature birth.   Ray       In a message dated 10/11/2013 1:53:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, adonaikam@... writes:   Garry When we had gouramis we found the got very territorial.  We had other fish in the tank and I'm afraid the gouramis weren't on the top of our list to keep so we ended up giving them away.   ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <garrywilliams59@...> wrote: My names Garry and I ahve just started collecting fish, so far it is getting manic, I have now got 5 tanks, and a few fish, I have one tank with 2 gouramis and 3 molly's in, we had 3 gouramis but one was found dead this morning, I think it may be the Betta we had in the same tank as it was chasing this gourami around the day before so I removed it today into a seperate tank. I also have a number of goldfish in another tank, I kind of got hooked on them for some reason, especially the black moors, and I have some tetras 6 and a few barbs in there as well about 4. I am looking to build a bigger tank soon, and slowly move a few fish into it so I can get rid of the smaller tanks, so my question for today is. 1. can I put the Betta in with the mollys or which would all fit into together?. 2. One of the mollys is pregnant and so I went out and got a floating breeding tank but when do I put her in it and which of all these species will eat the fry if in the same tank with them. thanks Garry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55493	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/12/2013
Subject: Coelacanth Fish from State of Kuwait

The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. By: Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf. Article Reference: Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year, July 1987, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-8.   Website: http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait.htm On Friday 14.03.1987, I have visited with the family, the Science & Natural History Museum in Kuwait City, State of Kuwait.                                                                One of the various Halls was the Fish Hall. It contains a big collection of local fishes, which was caught off the Arabian Gulf coast of Kuwait.   A rare species of fish was also displayed, the Coelacanth. It was a gift from the Government of the Islamic Federal Republic of the Comoros to the Kuwaiti Foreign Minister H.E. Al-Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, who in turn gave it as a gift to the Science & Natural History Museum in August 1976.   David Attenborough (1979) in his book "Life on Earth" writes: "Many species of coelacanth have been found as fossils. They are not large - thirty centimetres or so in length. Some specimens have been preserved in miraculous detail with every scale and fin-ray present. A juvenile was uncovered in the rocks of Illinois with traces of its yolk sack beneath its belly, plain to see. They are most abundant in deposits about 400 million years old, but thereafter they become scarcer and none has been found in rocks younger than 70 million years. Since they were flourishing during the period when the land was invaded and since they certainly possessed limb-like fins, it seemed likely that they were the creatures from which the first land vertebrates were descended. Their fossils were therefore studied with great care to try and determine exactly how they moved and how they breathed. But scientists reconciled themselves to the fact that the answers to such questions would never be known with certainty since the fish had obviously become extinct long ago.”                                                                        Attenborough (1979) continues: “And then, in 1938, a trawler fishing off the coast of South Africa brought up a very strange fish. It was large, nearly two metres long, with powerful jaws and heavy armoured scales. After the catch had been landed at East London, the curator of the small local museum, Miss Courtenay-Latimer, came down to look it over. She noticed this peculiar fish and although she was not a fish specialist, she became convinced that it was of great importance. She wrote to Professor J.B.L. Smith of Grahamstown University, the greatest authority on African fish, describing it briefly. Before he could get to the specimen, its entrails had decomposed so badly that they had to be thrown away, so it was a gutted specimen that he eventually saw. In spite of this, and the fact that it was so large, he recognised it immediately as a coelacanth. He named it Latimeria and informed an astonished world that a creature thought to have been extinct for 70 million years was still alive."                                                                 David Attenborough (1979) added: "The discovery was hailed as the scientific sensation of the century and a huge search for another specimen was mounted. Leaflets and posters carrying a picture of Latimeria and offering a huge reward were distributed among the countless fishing villages that dot the coasts of southern and eastern Africa. But without result. Then, fourteen years later, after it had seemed that this strange fish had appeared only to disappear totally, another was caught, not off South Africa but a thousand miles away in Anjouan, one of the tiny Comoro Islands that lie in the Indian Ocean midway between Madagascar and the coast of Tanzania. The first one, it seems, was a stray, for the fishermen of the Comoros said that the coelacanth was no stranger to them. They caught one or two each season in depths of about two or three hundred metres. They did not often fish for them deliberately, for a coelacanth fights hard when it is hooked and a man might have to struggle with one of them for many hours before it could be hauled on board his canoe. And after all that trouble, its flesh is oily and not particularly good to eat. Indeed, almost the most valuable part of the coelacanth anatomy, to the Comorians, is its rough heavy scales. They are very useful for rubbing down inner tubes when mending a puncture.”                      Attenborough (1979) continues: “Since that time, several dozen more coelacanths have been caught and paradoxically, science now knows more about Latimeria than many an abundant fish. A pregnant female has been caught with young inside her attached to their yolk sacs, just like the Illinois fossil, showing that the species does not lay its eggs but gives birth to live young. But because it is so powerful a fish, such a doughty fighter and has to be dragged up from such depths, Latimeria very seldom reaches the shore alive."                                              Attenborough (1979) added: “One of the fishermen brought a Coelacanth in, lashed to the side of his canoe. It, too, was nearly dead, but he was persuaded to release it in a bay long enough for it to be filmed with an underwater camera as it swam slowly above the bottom. And indeed, it did hold its stout pectoral fins away from the sides of its body, and it was not hard to imagine that had it been vigorous, it could have used them to help it move over the rocky sea floor of its true environment. What is more, it was also clear that, mechanically, such fins would be of real assistance out of water as in it, had the fish, like its ancient forebears, been living in shallow water and become stranded.”  John E. McCosker (1979) in his paper "Inferred Natural History of the Living Coelacanth" writes: "An hypothetical life history of Latimeria chalumnae can be constructed on the basis of its anatomy, diet, catch records, and Comoran oceanographic and meteorological data. On that basis, it appears that Latimeria behaves like a large, reef-associated piscivorous grouper.”                                       The ovoviviparous reproductive system is a specialization related to the retention of urea, not unlike that of the ovovivaparous elasmobranchs. The large 163 cm female of 5 January 1972 contained 20 eggs, 8.5-9 cm in diameter and 300-344 g in weight (Millot and Anthony, 1974; McCosker, 1979).                                                         McCosker (1979) continues: “Although it is possible that some may have aborted during capture, it appears that they represent the normal complement of a pregnant female. The only known embryos were near term and indicate that length at birth is more than 32 cm (Smith et al. 1975). The estimated gestation period is approximately 13 months (not unlike many elasmobranchs) with births presumably occurring in February (Smith et al. 1975; Hureau and Ozouf, 1977). The juvenile Latimeria are probably predatory as indicated by their dentition and jaw structure. The allometric growth of the upper jaw and head length (McAllister and Smith, 1978) would assist the predatory behavior of young fish. The smallest Latimeria captured on hook and line is 42.5 cm long and weighs 800 g. Its age, first estimated to be 3.5 years by Anthony and Robineau (1976), has been reinterpreted to be one year or less (Hureau and Ozouf, 1977). Age and growth estimates made from scale analysis suggest that the largest females (180 cm) are nearly 11 years old. It appears that females attain a larger length and weight than males (McAllister and Smith, 1978; McCosker, 1979), a condition shared by certain sharks and probably related to the reproductive commitment to ovoviviparity and pregnancy.”                                                                            McCosker (1979) added: “The limited geographic distribution of Latimeria must in some way be related to the reduced vagility which accompanies its live-bearing reproductive mode. The lower depth limit of Latimeria distribution has not been delimited, but it is quite likely that the seamount chain between the Comoros and the African coast is traversable by juveniles and/or adults. The chance discovery of a Latimeria off South Africa in 1938 has not been repeated, in spite of an actively continuing and reasonably informed fishery. It is likely that coelacanths exist uncommonly along the offshore seamounts and banks of the western Indian Ocean, but this has not been confirmed due to the capture difficulties and the lack of a prolonged exploratory fishing effort. Their presence might most effectively be explored using shallow depth submersibles.”             The seasonality and lunar periodicity of coelacanth capture indicates that their behavior and/or presence in shallow water fluctuates. Presuming that Latimeria presence in shallow water is affected by rainfall-fed submarine aquifers, it seems likely that the fat-investment of the swimbladder is an adaptation which assists vertical migration. Dead, intact specimens are slightly denser than seawater. The high, extracellular lipid and wax ester content of the muscles compensates somewhat for the lack of swimbladder function (Nevenzel et. al. 1966). The fish is therefore slightly negatively "buoyant" (not unlike large groupers, cirrhitids, and blennioids), allowing it to perch on a reef platform and lunge short distances to capture prey items. Its body shape and fin size and location are adapted for such a feeding method. The inter-cranial mobility, subcephalic musculature, and jaw angle (Thomson 1966, 1970, 1973; Alexander 1973) also contribute to rapid prey capture and engulfment (McCosker, 1979).                                                                The coelacanth eye is adapted to moderate depths in clear, tropical waters. The retina possesses numerous, densely-packed rods; cones (single type) are very rare and possess a single oil droplet (Ali and Anctil, 1976). The visual pigment maximum absorbance is at 473 nm (Dartnall, 1972). The large, nearly color-blind eye is therefore adapted to low light levels (indicative of a primarily nocturnal activity pattern?) and similar in habit and structure to elasmobranchs which occupy a similar habitat (Millot and Carasso, 1955). The relatively large eye of the embryos and juvenile specimen evidence an allometric growth (McAllister and Smith, 1978) which presumably would allow young fish to occupy the same photic horizon as adults (McCosker, 1979).                                                                     If the natural history of the living coelacanth is as I have inferred, then it is quite likely that Latimeria is amenable to aquarium captivity. Its lack of a functional swimbladder would allow its existence at ambient pressure and a minimal reduction in temperature and light level might be the only modifications necessary (McCosker, 1979).   I would like now to mention some general information about the Coelacanth (Quastenflosser in German) in German, which was published in the book "Riesenfische, Wale und Delphine" von J.R. Norman und F.C. Fraser (1963).  Quastenflosser, Familie Coelacanthidae, Gattung Latimeria:   Die alte Gruppe der Crossopterygii, als seit dem Zeitalter der Dinosaurier, d.h. seit etwa 60 Millionen Jahren ausgestorben geltend, erregte die wissenschaftliche Welt durch ihr Wiederauferstehen vor der süd-afrikanischen Küste um die Weihnachtszeit des Jahres 1938. Ein einziges Exemplar wurde auf einer Tiefe von 40 Faden im Schleppnetz gefangen. Es war von leuchtend blauer Farbe und äußerst ölhaltig. Es wog 57,6 kg und war gerade 140 cm lang und sollte deshalb vielleicht nicht als "Riesenfisch" aufgeführt werden. Doch wurde nach zuverlässigen Berichten ein weiterer ganz ähnlicher, jedoch über 1,8 m langer Fisch bei Flut nahe East London angespült, jener Stadt, in deren Museum dies einzigartige lebende Fossil ausgestellt ist (Norman und Fraser 1963).          Latimeria ist ein verhältnismäßig großer, plumper Fisch. Die Kiefer sind mit Reihen kräftiger spitzer Zähne bewehrt. Die zweite Rücken-, die After- sowie die paarigen Flossen sitzen auf beschuppten muskulösen Stielen. Schwanzflosse aus je einem ziemlich langen oberen und unteren Flossensaum bestehend, der in der Mittellinie der körperachse durch einen kleineren stark abgerundeten Endlappen unterbrochen und überragt wird. Färbung im Leben metallisch graublau mit helleren grünlich-blauen Reflexen auf den Flossen. Auge grünlich-gelb (Norman und Fraser, 1963).                                                                                                     Erreicht eine Länge von mindestens 1,7 m und ein Gewicht von 78 kg. Der Quastenflosser ist offenbar ein vorwiegend nächtlicher Bodenfisch, der den Tag vielleicht in Höhlen oder Felsspalten verbringt. Die Fangplätze liegen, vom Erstfund abgesehen, sämtlich auf der relativ stark abfallenden Böschung um die Comoren auf Tiefen von 150-390 m und etwa 500-1000 m von der Küste entfernt. Als Nahrung wurden kleinere Fische festgestellt, doch waren die Mägen der meisten untersuchten Tiere leer (Norman und Fraser, 1963).                                  Die Männchen messen in der Regel nur 109-130 cm und sind mit Gewichten von 20-40 kg auch viel leichter als die größeren Weibchen.                                          Über die Fortpflanzung ist nichts bekannt.                                                                Der Gattungsname Latimeria wurde dem Fisch zu Ehren der Kustodin des Museums von East London, Miss Courtenay-Latimer, erteilt, welche die Besonderheit dieses Fisches erkannte und Professor Smith von dem Fund verständigte. Der Artname chalumnae erinnert an den Fundort, da der Fisch vor der Mündung des Chalumna-Flusses gefangen wurde (Norman und Fraser, 1963). Ende. Al-Hamdu Lillahi Rabi Al-Alameen. References and Internet Websites:   Alexander, R.M. (1973). Jaw mechanisms of the coelacanth Latimeria. Copeia 1973 (1): 156-158.                                                                                                                              Ali, M.A., and Anctil, M. (1976). Retinas of fishes. Springer-Verlag, Berlin. 284 pp. Anthony, J. and Robineau, D. (1976). Sur quelques caracteres juveniles de Latimeria chalumnae. C.R. Acad. Sci. 283:1739-1742.                                                       Attenborough, David (1979). Life on Earth. Collins, London, Glasgow, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto, Johannesburg, and the British Broadcasting Corporation, London. 319 pp.                                                                                                                                   Convert Online Free. Convert JPG to PDF. http://convertonlinefree.com/ImageToPDFEN.aspx                                             Courtenay-Latimer, M. (1979). My story of the first Coelacanth. In "The Biology and Physiology of the Living Coelacanth". Occasional Papers of the California Academy of Sciences. No. 134, December 22, 1979. pp. 6-10.                                                   Dartnall, H.J.A. (1972). Visual pigment of the coelacanth. Nature 239: 341-342.        Hureau, J.C. and Ozouf, C. (1977). Determination de l'age et croissance du coelacanthe Latimeria chalumnae. Cybium, 3e ser. 2: 129-137.                                                                   Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Zoology, Second Year) (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2, February 1982, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp.14-15. (In Arabic). http://issuu.com/dr-normanalibassamkhalaf/docs/coelacanth_fish_al_biology_magazine                                     Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year, July 1987, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait.htm                                              Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38, Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/                                                                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/                                                  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm Khalaf, Dr. Norman Ali (Zoologist) (2011). A note on the Coelacanth of Kuwait. Readers’ Letters, National Geographic Al Arabiya Magazine. April 2011, Volume 2, Number 7, pp. 8. (In Arabic) http://www.flickr.com/photos/50022881@N00/10122383976/                                        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm                                     Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Taxon Profile: Species Sharjah Coelacanth Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. BioLib. Biological Library.   http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1068520/                                                 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Sharjah Coelacanth († Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life.   http://eol.org/collections/95987/                                                                         McAllister, D.E. and Smith, C.L. (1978). Mensurations morphologiques, denobrements meristiques et taxonomie du coelacanthe, Latimeria chalumnae. Nat. Can. 105: 63-76.                                                                                         McConnaughey, Bayard H. (1978). Introduction to Marine Biology. Third Edition. The C.V. Mosby Company, Saint Louis. 624 PP.                                                                                                                          McCosker, John E. (1979). Inferred Natural History of the Living Coelacanth. In "The Biology and Physiology of the Living Coelacanth". Occasional Papers of the California Academy of Sciences. No.134, December 22, 1979. pp.17-24.                                                                    Millot, J. and Anthony, J. (1974). Les oeufs du coelacanthe. Sci. Nat. Paris, No.121, pp.3-4.                                                                                                           Millot, J. and Carasso, N. (1955). Note preliminaire sur l'oeil de Latimeria (Coelacanthidae). C.R. Acad. Sci. 241: 576-577.                                                                                         Nevenzel, J.C., Rodegker, W., Mead, J.F. and Gordon, M.S. (1966). Lipids of the living coelacanth, Latimeria chalumnae. Science 152: 1753-1755.                                         Norman, J.R. und Fraser, F.C. (1963). Riesenfische, Wale und Delphine. Verlag Paul Parey, Hamburg und Berlin. 341 pp.                                                                                             Ocronline. Convert PDF to MS Word (Doc). http://www.ocronline.com/               Science & Natural History Museum (1977). Science & Natural History Museum, Ministry of Education, State of Kuwait.                                                                                                  Science & Natural History Museum Guide (1984). Science & Natural History Museum, Ministry of Education, State of Kuwait. 36 pp.                                                                     Smith, C.L., Rand, C.S., Schaeffer, B. and Atz, J.W. (1975). Latimeria, the living coelacanth, is ovoviviparous. Science 190: 1105-1106.                                                                                      Smith, J.L.B. (1939). A surviving fish of the order Actinistia. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 27: 47-50.                                                                                                                                      Smith, J.L.B. (1940). A living coelacanthid fish from South Africa. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 28: 1-106.                                                                                                                                            Smith, M.M. (1978). Enamel in the oral teeth of Latimeria chalumnae: a scanning electronmicroscope study. J. Zool. Lond. 185: 355-369.                                                   Thomson, K.S. (1966). Intercranial mobility in the coelacanth. Science 153:999-1000.                                                                                                                      Thomson, K.S. (1970). Intercranial movement in the coelacanth Latimeria chalumnae Smith (Osteichthyes, Crossopterygii). Postilla 149: 1-12.                                                    Thomson, K.S. (1973). New observations on the coelacanth fish, Latimeria chalumnae. Copeia 1973(4): 813-814.                                                                                                                     Von Wahlert, G. (1968). Latimeria und die Geschichte der Wirbeltiere. Eine evolutions biologische Untersuchung. Gustav Fischer Verlag, Stuttgart.                                          Wheeler, A. (1975). Fishes of the world. MacMillan Pub. Co., New York. 366 pp.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55494	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching

Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching  <http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/hatching-of-endangered-leatherback-sea-turtles-captured-on-video-by-beachgoer/> Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55495	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/13/2013
Subject: Re: Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching

Thanks for posting Angela, excellent video!   John<o)))< On 13 October 2013 18:37, Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...> wrote:   Video of the exact moment of at least 80 Leatherbacks hatching  <http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/nature/post/hatching-of-endangered-leatherback-sea-turtles-captured-on-video-by-beachgoer/> Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55496	From: janicedewire	Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips

I have the water tested quite often. Took another sample this evening to get tested..amonia was 0, nitrate 0 ppm, hardness 300 ppm, chlorine 0, PH 7.6. The tank has been the same set up for well over a month. I don't have the very very small gravel like I do for my Betta. It varies a bit in size...like the size of a cherry tomato down to pea size. Its from a fish store. Temp is 80 degrees. Nothing new has been introduced to their home at all. They eat blood worms, and worms. Have had beetles. When I feed them I take time doing it. They come up to the waters edge and they each get a "serving". Wait for them to be done...and then they get another. At night same thing. I noticed last night with the room dark and just the light of the TV my fish came up from the bottom and was swimming with the other nose to tail completely touching side to side and gently touching one another with their tails and bodies. QUITE the display actually. They did this off and on all night. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: sevenspringss1@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 01:51:27 -0400 (EDT) To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Oscar has swollen lips   Janice,   Please give us your water parameters (in numbers).  Can you tell us more about your maintenance regimen?  Gravel vacuuming, filter media cleaning or renewal/changing, etc.?  Any change in the color of the gravel from its surface to its depths?  How long was this tank set up?  What are you feeding, and how much (how long does it take for them to eat a feeding)?   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   One of the Oscars recently has gotten lethargic, loss of appetite, and hangs out on the bottom of his tank.  I have another Oscar in there with him that is doing just fine,no difference what so ever...The Oscar not doing well is about 4 inches long, and the other is about 3 inches long. I've never seen any fighting at all.  The smaller one follows the larger every second of her life...Always side by side rubbing against the other delicately.   Also, it seems maybe his lips might be a bit swollen.  The tank is clean.  Do a 50 percent water change weekly.  Filters are clean.  Temp is at 80 degrees. There have been NO changes what so ever to their environment.  I'm really worried.  Thank you Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55497	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/15/2013
Subject: Re: My Oscar has swollen lips

Thanks for filling in some of the blanks.  The water parameter results, in numbers, help if they're accurate.  I notice you have still not replied everything about your regular maintenance procedures, as was asked of you, nor have you yet stated anything about the way and frequency that you clean your gravel or filter as was also asked.   To start with though, a tank being set up for just a month has barely enough time to establish a nitrogen cycle.  You have said "well over a month," but we can't know by this if you mean 5 weeks, 6 weeks or more.  On average, it takes approximately 6 weeks for a nitrogen cycle to become fully established.  At 4 weeks, the tank could still be battling a nitrite (note, not nitrate) issue, which I notice you haven't given the test result for.  Getting to the zero test result for your nitrate though, unless you're doing copious amounts of PWCing (Partial Water Changing), a cycled tank will normally show at least some nitrate as the end result of the nitrogen cycle in a viable aquarium -- unless you have large amounts of live plants utilizing it all.  If plants aren't present and if large and frequent PWC's are being performed, then nitrate is expected to build up at least nominally as the last stage of the ammonia's conversion/oxidation by the nitrifying bacteria in your filter, so zero is very seldom seen as the level of this part of the dissolved organic wastes.    I do see that you make weekly 50% PWC's, which would limit the amounts of contaminants in the water, but which rarely reduces the end result of the nitrogen cycle to zero.  Additionally, if you were making 50% PWC's all along since starting the tank, it's quite likely that while the ammonia needs to be kept down to a safe level if you have fish in the tank at this time (while cycling), that you may not have been leaving enough ammonia for the nitrifying bacteria to become sufficiently populated to fully establish the cycle.   If in fact the nitrate actually is zero, then it usually means that the nitrogen cycle has not yet fully completed (since a presence of nitrate shows that the nitrite is being converted), and that your nitrite might still be elevated (if your nitrate is actually zero) -- which can cause issues with your fish.  As such, I need to question the accuracy of this test result.  Most hobbyists test their own water, in part because it's much more convenient to be able to know their water's quality at any given moment if they're having a problem, as this is most often where fish problems originate.  We recommend obtaining a liquid master test kit, having all the individual testing kits available in one large kit.  API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc) is one of the better ones and one that's very easily used and read; they're also not that expensive either.  Quite often, while LFS's (Local Fish Stores) will test your water for you and give you fairly accurate readings, they'll also tell you that the ammonia, nitrite or nitrate is "fine" or "none existant" when in fact there may still be a "safe" level present -- to appease their customers in not having them be concerned unnecessarily.  If by chance, your LFS uses test strips (instead of liquid tests) to test their customers' water, please know that these can be highly inaccurate and undependable.    With gravel having mixed sized pieces up to that of cherry tomatoes, it's extremely easy for any debris to fall down in between these pieces and decay, effectively degrading the water quality.  I'm not saying that your water is less than ideal, but I need to draw your attention to this possibility of that happening when having this type of a substrate of much larger pieces allowing for this.  While I haven't seen a photo of your tank, this sounds like it may be a type of what's referred to as "River Gravel" in the aquarium trade, which is not always ideal in ease of maintenance.  Unless you feed these fish their bloodworms one by one, and make sure they eat every single bloodworm you give them, it's quite easy for some of this food to fall down in between the larger pieces of cherry-tomato-size gravel -- which was another reason why I asked you about your gravel cleaning procedures.          While we have the sizes of your fish, an important question needed for us to know is what size tank they're being housed in, which should probably have been included initially, but answers to the first questions may well have precluded the need to ask this.  As some answers haven't yet been offered I'll also ask how large your tank is, which may offer further clues to your fish's problems and again, we need to know what you do each week in your method(s) of cleaning your gravel -- if you have a regular regimen for it.  Also need to know how you care for your filter.   Ray     In a message dated 10/15/2013 7:40:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   I have the water tested quite often. Took another sample this evening to get tested..amonia was 0, nitrate 0 ppm, hardness 300 ppm, chlorine 0, PH 7.6. The tank has been the same set up for well over a month. I don't have the very very small gravel like I do for my Betta. It varies a bit in size...like the size of a cherry tomato down to pea size. Its from a fish store. Temp is 80 degrees. Nothing new has been introduced to their home at all. They eat blood worms, and worms. Have had beetles. When I feed them I take time doing it. They come up to the waters edge and they each get a "serving". Wait for them to be done...and then they get another. At night same thing. I noticed last night with the room dark and just the light of the TV my fish came up from the bottom and was swimming with the other nose to tail completely touching side to side and gently touching one another with their tails and bodies. QUITE the display actually. They did this off and on all night. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: sevenspringss1@... Sender: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 01:51:27 -0400 (EDT) To: <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] My Oscar has swollen lips   Janice,   Please give us your water parameters (in numbers).  Can you tell us more about your maintenance regimen?  Gravel vacuuming, filter media cleaning or renewal/changing, etc.?  Any change in the color of the gravel from its surface to its depths?  How long was this tank set up?  What are you feeding, and how much (how long does it take for them to eat a feeding)?   Ray   In a message dated 10/11/2013 3:40:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   One of the Oscars recently has gotten lethargic, loss of appetite, and hangs out on the bottom of his tank.  I have another Oscar in there with him that is doing just fine,no difference what so ever...The Oscar not doing well is about 4 inches long, and the other is about 3 inches long. I've never seen any fighting at all.  The smaller one follows the larger every second of her life...Always side by side rubbing against the other delicately.   Also, it seems maybe his lips might be a bit swollen.  The tank is clean.  Do a 50 percent water change weekly.  Filters are clean.  Temp is at 80 degrees. There have been NO changes what so ever to their environment.  I'm really worried.  Thank you Janice

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55498	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 10/18/2013
Subject: Interesting Salmon turning yellow

Salmon and finding solutions to what is happening ; http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/ _______________________________________________ Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ..than being important. ~ Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive  reinforcement includes .... people too. ~ California Wildlife Center,volunteer wildlife warrior www.cawildlife.org

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55499	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Coelacanth Model at Museum Koenig in Bonn

A Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. By: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference:  Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). A  Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 111, March 2014, Jumada Al Oula 1435 AH. pp. 1–9.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.   http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthmuseumkoenig.htm On the 06th January 2003 I visited, accompanied with my daughter Nora, the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig (The Alexander Koenig Zoological Research Museum) in Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany.  The Alexander Koenig Zoological Research Museum is a natural history museum and zoological research institution in Bonn, Germany. The museum is named after the German Naturalist and Zoologist Alexander Ferdinand Koenig (1858-1940), who founded the museum and donated his collection of specimens to the institution. The museum was opened in 1934 and is affiliated with the University of Bonn (Wikipedia).   During my scientific visit I saw a model of the Coelacanth fish (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939). The model was made by Mr. Wolfgang Hartwig, the chief taxidermist of Museum Koenig, and was displayed in one of the glass vitrines. The Coelacanths constitute a rare order of fish that includes two extant species in the genus Latimeria: the West Indian Ocean coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939) and the Indonesian coelacanth (Latimeria menadoensis Pouyaud, Wirjoatmodjo, Rachmatika, Tjakrawidjaja, Hadiaty & Hadie, 1999). They follow the oldest known living lineage of Sarcopterygii (lobe-finned fish and tetrapods), which means they are more closely related to lungfish, reptiles and mammals than to the common ray-finned fishes. They are found along the coastlines of the Indian Ocean and Indonesia. Since there are only two species of coelacanth and both are threatened, it is the most endangered order of animals in the world. The West Indian Ocean coelacanth is a critically endangered species (Wikipedia). Coelacanths belong to the subclass Actinistia, a group of lobed-finned fish related to lungfish and certain extinct Devonian fish such as osteolepiforms, porolepiforms, rhizodonts, and Panderichthys. Coelacanths were thought to have gone extinct in the Late Cretaceous, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa. Traditionally, the coelacanth was considered a “living fossil” due to its apparent lack of significant evolution over the past millions of years; and the coelacanth was thought to have evolved into roughly its current form approximately 400 million years ago. However, several recent studies have shown that coelacanth body shapes are much more diverse than is generally said. In addition, it was shown recently that studies concluding that a slow rate of molecular evolution is linked to morphological conservatism in coelacanths are biased on the prior hypothesis that these species are “living fossils” (Wikipedia). Many species of coelacanth have been found as fossils. They are not large - thirty centimetres or so in length. Some specimens have been preserved in miraculous detail with every scale and fin-ray present. A juvenile was uncovered in the rocks of Illinois with traces of its yolk sack beneath its belly, plain to see. They are most abundant in deposits about 400 million years old, but thereafter they become scarcer and none has been found in rocks younger than 70 million years. Since they were flourishing during the period when the land was invaded and since they certainly possessed limb-like fins, it seemed likely that they were the creatures from which the first land vertebrates were descended. Their fossils were therefore studied with great care to try and determine exactly how they moved and how they breathed. But scientists reconciled themselves to the fact that the answers to such questions would never be known with certainty since the fish had obviously become extinct long ago (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). And then, in 1938, a trawler fishing off the coast of South Africa brought up a very strange fish. It was large, nearly two metres long, with powerful jaws and heavy armoured scales. After the catch had been landed at East London, the curator of the small local museum, Miss Courtenay-Latimer, came down to look it over. She noticed this peculiar fish and although she was not a fish specialist, she became convinced that it was of great importance. She wrote to Professor J.B.L. Smith of Grahamstown University, the greatest authority on African fish, describing it briefly. Before he could get to the specimen, its entrails had decomposed so badly that they had to be thrown away, so it was a gutted specimen that he eventually saw. In spite of this, and the fact that it was so large, he recognised it immediately as a coelacanth. He named it Latimeria and informed an astonished world that a creature thought to have been extinct for 70 million years was still alive (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). The discovery was hailed as the scientific sensation of the century and a huge search for another specimen was mounted. Leaflets and posters carrying a picture of Latimeria and offering a huge reward were distributed among the countless fishing villages that dot the coasts of southern and eastern Africa. But without result. Then, fourteen years later, after it had seemed that this strange fish had appeared only to disappear totally, another was caught, not off South Africa but a thousand miles away in Anjouan, one of the tiny Comoro Islands that lie in the Indian Ocean midway between Madagascar and the coast of Tanzania. The first one, it seems, was a stray, for the fishermen of the Comoros said that the coelacanth was no stranger to them. They caught one or two each season in depths of about two or three hundred metres. They did not often fish for them deliberately, for a coelacanth fights hard when it is hooked and a man might have to struggle with one of them for many hours before it could be hauled on board his canoe. And after all that trouble, its flesh is oily and not particularly good to eat. Indeed, almost the most valuable part of the coelacanth anatomy, to the Comorians, is its rough heavy scales. They are very useful for rubbing down inner tubes when mending a puncture (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). Since that time, several dozen more coelacanths have been caught and paradoxically, science now knows more about Latimeria than many an abundant fish. A pregnant female has been caught with young inside her attached to their yolk sacs, just like the Illinois fossil, showing that the species does not lay its eggs but gives birth to live young. But because it is so powerful a fish, such a doughty fighter and has to be dragged up from such depths, Latimeria very seldom reaches the shore alive (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). One of the fishermen brought a Coelacanth in, lashed to the side of his canoe. It, too, was nearly dead, but he was persuaded to release it in a bay long enough for it to be filmed with an underwater camera as it swam slowly above the bottom. And indeed, it did hold its stout pectoral fins away from the sides of its body, and it was not hard to imagine that had it been vigorous, it could have used them to help it move over the rocky sea floor of its true environment. What is more, it was also clear that, mechanically, such fins would be of real assistance out of water as in it, had the fish, like its ancient forebears, been living in shallow water and become stranded (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). References and Internet Websites Attenborough, David (1979). Life on Earth. Collins, London, Glasgow, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto, Johannesburg, and the British Broadcasting Corporation, London. 319 pp.   Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Zoology, Second Year) (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2, February 1982, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp.14-15. (In Arabic). http://issuu.com/dr-normanalibassamkhalaf/docs/coelacanth_fish_al_biology_magazine                     Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year, July 1987, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait.htm                                              Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38, Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/                                                                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/                                                  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm                    Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. In : Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005, pp. 110-117. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.                                                                                                                     Khalaf, Dr. Norman Ali (Zoologist) (2011). A note on the Coelacanth of Kuwait. Readers’ Letters, National Geographic Al Arabiya Magazine. April 2011, Volume 2, Number 7, pp. 8. (In Arabic). http://www.flickr.com/photos/50022881@N00/10122383976/                        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm                                     Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Taxon Profile: Species Sharjah Coelacanth Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. BioLib. Biological Library.   http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1068520/                                                 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Sharjah Coelacanth († Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life.   http://eol.org/collections/95987/                                                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). A  Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 111, March 2014, Jumada Al Oula 1435 AH. pp. 1–9.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthmuseumkoenig.htm Pouyaud, Laurent; Wirjoatmodjoc, Soetikno; Rachmatikac, Ike; Tjakrawidjajac, Agus; Hadiatyc, Renny; Hadied, Wartono (1999). Une nouvelle espèce de coelacanthe. Preuves génétiques et morphologiques. A new species of coelacanth. Comptes rendus de l'Académie des sciences - Série III - Sciences de la vie / Life Sciences - 1999, 322, 261-267. www.elsevier.fr/html/news/cras3mars99/pouyaud.html                                    Smith, J.L.B. (1939). A surviving fish of the order Actinistia. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 27: 47-50.                                                                                                                                      Smith, J.L.B. (1940). A living coelacanthid fish from South Africa. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 28: 1-106.                                                                                                                            Wikipedia. Museum Koenig. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Koenig Wikipedia. Museum Koenig. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Koenig Wikipedia. Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth        Wikipedia. Indonesian Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_coelacanth                                   Wikipedia. West Indian Ocean Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indian_Ocean_coelacanth                  Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig. http://www.museumkoenig.de/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55500	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Re: Coelacanth Model at Museum Koenig in Bonn

This post intrigued me enough to search YouTube for the Coelacanth & I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jl_txxYQEA I have to say what a fabulous looking animal it is, such a shame they are endangered.   John<o)))< On 19 October 2013 14:09, <jaffacity@...> wrote:   A Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. By: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference:  Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). A  Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 111, March 2014, Jumada Al Oula 1435 AH. pp. 1–9.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.   http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthmuseumkoenig.htm On the 06th January 2003 I visited, accompanied with my daughter Nora, the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig (The Alexander Koenig Zoological Research Museum) in Bonn, Federal Republic of Germany.  The Alexander Koenig Zoological Research Museum is a natural history museum and zoological research institution in Bonn, Germany. The museum is named after the German Naturalist and Zoologist Alexander Ferdinand Koenig (1858-1940), who founded the museum and donated his collection of specimens to the institution. The museum was opened in 1934 and is affiliated with the University of Bonn (Wikipedia).   During my scientific visit I saw a model of the Coelacanth fish (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939). The model was made by Mr. Wolfgang Hartwig, the chief taxidermist of Museum Koenig, and was displayed in one of the glass vitrines. The Coelacanths constitute a rare order of fish that includes two extant species in the genus Latimeria: the West Indian Ocean coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939) and the Indonesian coelacanth (Latimeria menadoensis Pouyaud, Wirjoatmodjo, Rachmatika, Tjakrawidjaja, Hadiaty & Hadie, 1999). They follow the oldest known living lineage of Sarcopterygii (lobe-finned fish and tetrapods), which means they are more closely related to lungfish, reptiles and mammals than to the common ray-finned fishes. They are found along the coastlines of the Indian Ocean and Indonesia. Since there are only two species of coelacanth and both are threatened, it is the most endangered order of animals in the world. The West Indian Ocean coelacanth is a critically endangered species (Wikipedia). Coelacanths belong to the subclass Actinistia, a group of lobed-finned fish related to lungfish and certain extinct Devonian fish such as osteolepiforms, porolepiforms, rhizodonts, and Panderichthys. Coelacanths were thought to have gone extinct in the Late Cretaceous, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa. Traditionally, the coelacanth was considered a “living fossil” due to its apparent lack of significant evolution over the past millions of years; and the coelacanth was thought to have evolved into roughly its current form approximately 400 million years ago. However, several recent studies have shown that coelacanth body shapes are much more diverse than is generally said. In addition, it was shown recently that studies concluding that a slow rate of molecular evolution is linked to morphological conservatism in coelacanths are biased on the prior hypothesis that these species are “living fossils” (Wikipedia). Many species of coelacanth have been found as fossils. They are not large - thirty centimetres or so in length. Some specimens have been preserved in miraculous detail with every scale and fin-ray present. A juvenile was uncovered in the rocks of Illinois with traces of its yolk sack beneath its belly, plain to see. They are most abundant in deposits about 400 million years old, but thereafter they become scarcer and none has been found in rocks younger than 70 million years. Since they were flourishing during the period when the land was invaded and since they certainly possessed limb-like fins, it seemed likely that they were the creatures from which the first land vertebrates were descended. Their fossils were therefore studied with great care to try and determine exactly how they moved and how they breathed. But scientists reconciled themselves to the fact that the answers to such questions would never be known with certainty since the fish had obviously become extinct long ago (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). And then, in 1938, a trawler fishing off the coast of South Africa brought up a very strange fish. It was large, nearly two metres long, with powerful jaws and heavy armoured scales. After the catch had been landed at East London, the curator of the small local museum, Miss Courtenay-Latimer, came down to look it over. She noticed this peculiar fish and although she was not a fish specialist, she became convinced that it was of great importance. She wrote to Professor J.B.L. Smith of Grahamstown University, the greatest authority on African fish, describing it briefly. Before he could get to the specimen, its entrails had decomposed so badly that they had to be thrown away, so it was a gutted specimen that he eventually saw. In spite of this, and the fact that it was so large, he recognised it immediately as a coelacanth. He named it Latimeria and informed an astonished world that a creature thought to have been extinct for 70 million years was still alive (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). The discovery was hailed as the scientific sensation of the century and a huge search for another specimen was mounted. Leaflets and posters carrying a picture of Latimeria and offering a huge reward were distributed among the countless fishing villages that dot the coasts of southern and eastern Africa. But without result. Then, fourteen years later, after it had seemed that this strange fish had appeared only to disappear totally, another was caught, not off South Africa but a thousand miles away in Anjouan, one of the tiny Comoro Islands that lie in the Indian Ocean midway between Madagascar and the coast of Tanzania. The first one, it seems, was a stray, for the fishermen of the Comoros said that the coelacanth was no stranger to them. They caught one or two each season in depths of about two or three hundred metres. They did not often fish for them deliberately, for a coelacanth fights hard when it is hooked and a man might have to struggle with one of them for many hours before it could be hauled on board his canoe. And after all that trouble, its flesh is oily and not particularly good to eat. Indeed, almost the most valuable part of the coelacanth anatomy, to the Comorians, is its rough heavy scales. They are very useful for rubbing down inner tubes when mending a puncture (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). Since that time, several dozen more coelacanths have been caught and paradoxically, science now knows more about Latimeria than many an abundant fish. A pregnant female has been caught with young inside her attached to their yolk sacs, just like the Illinois fossil, showing that the species does not lay its eggs but gives birth to live young. But because it is so powerful a fish, such a doughty fighter and has to be dragged up from such depths, Latimeria very seldom reaches the shore alive (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). One of the fishermen brought a Coelacanth in, lashed to the side of his canoe. It, too, was nearly dead, but he was persuaded to release it in a bay long enough for it to be filmed with an underwater camera as it swam slowly above the bottom. And indeed, it did hold its stout pectoral fins away from the sides of its body, and it was not hard to imagine that had it been vigorous, it could have used them to help it move over the rocky sea floor of its true environment. What is more, it was also clear that, mechanically, such fins would be of real assistance out of water as in it, had the fish, like its ancient forebears, been living in shallow water and become stranded (Attenborough 1979, Khalaf 1987). References and Internet Websites Attenborough, David (1979). Life on Earth. Collins, London, Glasgow, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto, Johannesburg, and the British Broadcasting Corporation, London. 319 pp.   Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Zoology, Second Year) (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2, February 1982, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp.14-15. (In Arabic). http://issuu.com/dr-normanalibassamkhalaf/docs/coelacanth_fish_al_biology_magazine                     Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year, July 1987, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait.htm                                              Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38, Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/                                                                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/                                                  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm                    Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. In : Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005, pp. 110-117. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.                                                                                                                     Khalaf, Dr. Norman Ali (Zoologist) (2011). A note on the Coelacanth of Kuwait. Readers’ Letters, National Geographic Al Arabiya Magazine. April 2011, Volume 2, Number 7, pp. 8. (In Arabic). http://www.flickr.com/photos/50022881@N00/10122383976/                        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm                                     Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Taxon Profile: Species Sharjah Coelacanth Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. BioLib. Biological Library.   http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1068520/                                                 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Sharjah Coelacanth († Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life.   http://eol.org/collections/95987/                                                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). A  Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 111, March 2014, Jumada Al Oula 1435 AH. pp. 1–9.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthmuseumkoenig.htm Pouyaud, Laurent; Wirjoatmodjoc, Soetikno; Rachmatikac, Ike; Tjakrawidjajac, Agus; Hadiatyc, Renny; Hadied, Wartono (1999). Une nouvelle espèce de coelacanthe. Preuves génétiques et morphologiques. A new species of coelacanth. Comptes rendus de l'Académie des sciences - Série III - Sciences de la vie / Life Sciences - 1999, 322, 261-267. www.elsevier.fr/html/news/cras3mars99/pouyaud.html                                    Smith, J.L.B. (1939). A surviving fish of the order Actinistia. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 27: 47-50.                                                                                                                                      Smith, J.L.B. (1940). A living coelacanthid fish from South Africa. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 28: 1-106.                                                                                                                            Wikipedia. Museum Koenig. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Koenig Wikipedia. Museum Koenig. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_Koenig Wikipedia. Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth        Wikipedia. Indonesian Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_coelacanth                                   Wikipedia. West Indian Ocean Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indian_Ocean_coelacanth                  Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig. http://www.museumkoenig.de/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55501	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: I'm in snails..

Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55502	From: Nancy Lee	Date: 10/19/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

In time, yr or so, you will have an uncountable amount. But  what you can do then, Is break down the tank, rinse the stone and replace. Remarkable how many you will get rid of and still have some if you want. On Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:44 PM, "al_keep_fish@..." <al_keep_fish@...> wrote:   Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55503	From: sevenspringss	Date: 10/20/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

Hi Al,   If these new snails are actually "pond snails," as you describe them to be, then you might want to know that Pond snails/Lymnaeidae (as opposed to Ramshorn and other types) are notorious for eating live plants -- with the exception of some tough-leafed plants like Anubias and Sagittaria.  So for that reason, if your newly-bought plants are tenderer, I'd suggest removing these snails whenever you see them.    Ray     In a message dated 10/19/2013 6:44:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al_keep_fish@... writes:   Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55504	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/20/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

Oh crap... thanks ray, I hadn't thought of that. I've taken out or squished 8-10 so far. I shall keep up the battle; I've gotten rid of them before that way.  It's just a matter killing them before they are old enough to reproduce. Too bad my good snails won't eat them.... lol. I found a pic that looks like them; I'll throw it in my folder.. pretty sure they're pond snails. Thanks again Ray. Al.  ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Hi Al,   If these new snails are actually "pond snails," as you describe them to be, then you might want to know that Pond snails/Lymnaeidae (as opposed to Ramshorn and other types) are notorious for eating live plants -- with the exception of some tough-leafed plants like Anubias and Sagittaria.  So for that reason, if your newly-bought plants are tenderer, I'd suggest removing these snails whenever you see them.    Ray     In a message dated 10/19/2013 6:44:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, al_keep_fish@... writes:   Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55505	From: Amber	Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

I've had both pond snails and MT snails, and also mystery snails. All in the same tank. The other two types out competed the mystery snails though and I lost those, I don't think they were finding enough food. Your pond snails can quickly over take a tank, I would be careful. I had them EVERYWHERE in one of my tanks. When I moved I ended up throwing all that substrate out, and started over. I no longer have any pond snails in any of my tanks. They usually come in as eggs on new plants. :( Amber On 10/19/2013 1:29 PM, al_keep_fish@... wrote:   Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55506	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time.   Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: I've had both pond snails and MT snails, and also mystery snails. All in the same tank. The other two types out competed the mystery snails though and I lost those, I don't think they were finding enough food. Your pond snails can quickly over take a tank, I would be careful. I had them EVERYWHERE in one of my tanks. When I moved I ended up throwing all that substrate out, and started over. I no longer have any pond snails in any of my tanks. They usually come in as eggs on new plants. :( Amber On 10/19/2013 1:29 PM, al_keep_fish@... wrote:   Hi folks. Well; I have snails; more snails that is, in my little planted tank. I was careful when I bought plants a few weeks ago, but I must have missed some eggs. I've picked a few out so far; the thing is, they seem to do more work than the MT's I have in there; but that's probably because the MT's are on the night shift, and these don't mind the day. Question. Has anyone had two different kinds in a tank? Am I asking for trouble? Should I try to pick out the newcomers as I see them? Or should I just leave it be, and have a day and a night shift? Maybe with more competition I would just have fewer of each kind? I wouldn't want the pond snails to outcompete the MT's though; I want them to stir the substrate. Anyone else had this dilemma before? Thanks.  Al

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55507	From: Dale Beasley	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: snails..

Has anyone any idea apart from squishing them on how to take some control over a population of Assassin Snails originally bought purposely to get rid of other snails accidently bought in on some weed. I just cannot squish anything so that is rather out of the question.   But what can I do about my assassin snails there appear to be lots of little ones growing nicely and about 6 bigger ones which wander happily about the tank.   If anyone lives on the Isle of Wight they could quite willingly have some little ones when they get big enough to catch most are about 2 –4 mm at the moment. Dale "The shortest way between two people is a smile"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55508	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: snails..

Hi Dale,   If all other means of rehoming these snails fails then you could always set up a small bucket or tank somewhere with a few plants in & use it as a snail sanctuary. Several years ago I had an excess of Vallis in my tank so I had a bucket with the plants I didn't need immediately. By chance there were some snail eggs on the plants & they rapidly developed into a thriving colony of small Physa snails-when I needed any of the plants in my maintain I just swilled the plant in a solution of water & white vinegar to get rid of any hitch hikers. The snail colony lasted for several years & was interesting to watch & cost absolutely nothing to run as all I did was top up some of the water whenever it evaporated. An old fashioned sweet jar would make an ideal venue for this. Just an idea!   John<o)))< On 25 October 2013 10:13, Dale Beasley <dalebeasley@...> wrote:   Has anyone any idea apart from squishing them on how to take some control over a population of Assassin Snails originally bought purposely to get rid of other snails accidently bought in on some weed. I just cannot squish anything so that is rather out of the question.   But what can I do about my assassin snails there appear to be lots of little ones growing nicely and about 6 bigger ones which wander happily about the tank.   If anyone lives on the Isle of Wight they could quite willingly have some little ones when they get big enough to catch most are about 2 –4 mm at the moment. Dale "The shortest way between two people is a smile"

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55509	From: cobra427lady	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > Al. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55510	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

So ya don't think 1 assassin would be enough in a 10 g Clare? I wonder if one would keep the numbers of the others down to an acceptable level, and reach a balance. That way I would still have some of the others, to eat algae and stir the substrate. Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <clare@...> wrote: Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > Al. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55511	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 1:0

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   1:00 am - 1:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55512	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 1:0

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   1:00 am - 1:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55514	From: dawnshungryeyes4u2c	Date: 10/25/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

1 assassin snail isn't going to do much of anything... they will overwhelm and likely kill it.  If you want to use assassin snails to control pest snails you will want at least 10 - 20 assassins.  I have a couple of friends who have been keeping/breeding assassins for a long time now (a few yrs) and I tried 5 of them in a 20 gallon that was overrun with mts and ram's horn snails.  The mts and ram's horns killed my assassins within a couple of wks.  I literally sat her and watched them gang up on my assassins, taking them out 1 at a time.  When I consulted with both of my friends they told me the same thing... it takes a lot of assassins to control even a moderate population of pest snails in any size tank.  Considering the cost of the assassins and the fact that they are live bearing and require male and female to reproduce, I didn't bother trying again.  They are very slow to reproduce as well... averaging 1 baby snail/wk once they get going.  The baby assassins also need to be separated from the adults or they, too, will be eaten by the adults.  Just thought you should know before you spend your money on 1 with hopes it will be of any help.  It likely will only end up dead.  :-( Dawn ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: So ya don't think 1 assassin would be enough in a 10 g Clare? I wonder if one would keep the numbers of the others down to an acceptable level, and reach a balance. That way I would still have some of the others, to eat algae and stir the substrate. Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <clare@...> wrote: Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > Al. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55515	From: cobra427lady	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

As I stated on my previous post...one assassin is not enough, even for a 10 gallon tank. To gain the upper hand, I agree with Dawn and would put at least 10 in to get the population in check. I have personally never seen mts or pond snails kill assassin snails...pnly the other way around. Have seen adult assassins predate their young as well as the other kinds of snails and though the assassins breed at a seemingly slower rate you will still have surviving baby assassins as long as there are still mts and pond snails to munch on. My 115G tank has a small self-controlling population of assassins as the clown loaches and assassins killed all the other snails a few years back. BTW, I no longer have the clown loaches in that tank as they outgrew it and I sold them to someone with a larger tank so it shows that the assassins are breeding and maintaining without any predators to eat them. They survive on the leftover bloodworms & algae wafers I feed to dragon goby, cories and plecos. Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote: > > 1 assassin snail isn't going to do much of anything... they will overwhelm and likely kill it. If you want to use assassin snails to control pest snails you will want at least 10 - 20 assassins. I have a couple of friends who have been keeping/breeding assassins for a long time now (a few yrs) and I tried 5 of them in a 20 gallon that was overrun with mts and ram's horn snails. The mts and ram's horns killed my assassins within a couple of wks. I literally sat her and watched them gang up on my assassins, taking them out 1 at a time. When I consulted with both of my friends they told me the same thing... it takes a lot of assassins to control even a moderate population of pest snails in any size tank. Considering the cost of the assassins and the fact that they are live bearing and require male and female to reproduce, I didn't bother trying again. They are very slow to reproduce as well... averaging 1 baby snail/wk once they get going. The baby assassins also need to be separated from the adults or they, too, will be eaten by the adults. > > Just thought you should know before you spend your money on 1 with hopes it will be of any help. It likely will only end up dead. :-( > > > Dawn > > > > ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > So ya don't think 1 assassin would be enough in a 10 g Clare? > I wonder if one would keep the numbers of the others down to an acceptable level, and reach a balance. That way I would still have some of the others, to eat algae and stir the substrate. > Al. > > > ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <clare@> wrote: > > Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. > > The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. > > The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) > > Good luck! > > Cheers, > Clare > > > > --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@> wrote: > > > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > > > Al. > > > > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55516	From: Harry Perry	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

I control my snail population by putting a net on the bottom, put a piece of lettuce in the net with a small stone on top to hold it. When the lettuce is full of snails I pick up the net and dump it. I have also had some success by waiting for lights out. In a planted tank the snails will come to the top because of photosynthesis. I simply put a sheet of stiff plastic cut to the size of the net , in the net and scrape  them off the sides.. To prevent them from coming back in large numbers I cut back on their food. Weekly water changes, eliminate dead plant leaves, vacuum top of the gravel at water change. I also only feed my fish once a day or every other day unless there are fry in the tank. Harry On Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:27 AM, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c@..." <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote:    1 assassin snail isn't going to do much of anything... they will overwhelm and likely kill it.  If you want to use assassin snails to control pest snails you will want at least 10 - 20 assassins.  I have a couple of friends who have been keeping/breeding assassins for a long time now (a few yrs) and I tried 5 of them in a 20 gallon that was overrun with mts and ram's horn snails.  The mts and ram's horns killed my assassins within a couple of wks.  I literally sat her and watched them gang up on my assassins, taking them out 1 at a time.  When I consulted with both of my friends they told me the same thing... it takes a lot of assassins to control even a moderate population of pest snails in any size tank.  Considering the cost of the assassins and the fact that they are live bearing and require male and female to reproduce, I didn't bother trying again.  They are very slow to reproduce as well... averaging 1 baby snail/wk once they get going.  The baby assassins also need to be separated from the adults or they, too, will be eaten by the adults.  Just thought you should know before you spend your money on 1 with hopes it will be of any help.  It likely will only end up dead.  :-( Dawn ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: So ya don't think 1 assassin would be enough in a 10 g Clare? I wonder if one would keep the numbers of the others down to an acceptable level, and reach a balance. That way I would still have some of the others, to eat algae and stir the substrate. Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <clare@...> wrote: Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > Al. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55517	From: al_keep_fish	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Re: I'm in snails..

Thanks all. I appreciate the kind of first hand knowledge found here. And to think; all this was not to be a factor, as I wanted a couple  of pea puffers in there. I couldn't find them, so I went another way. Al.  ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <harryfisherman@...> wrote: I control my snail population by putting a net on the bottom, put a piece of lettuce in the net with a small stone on top to hold it. When the lettuce is full of snails I pick up the net and dump it. I have also had some success by waiting for lights out. In a planted tank the snails will come to the top because of photosynthesis. I simply put a sheet of stiff plastic cut to the size of the net , in the net and scrape  them off the sides.. To prevent them from coming back in large numbers I cut back on their food. Weekly water changes, eliminate dead plant leaves, vacuum top of the gravel at water change. I also only feed my fish once a day or every other day unless there are fry in the tank. Harry On Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:27 AM, "dawnshungryeyes4u2c@..." <dawnshungryeyes4u2c@...> wrote:    1 assassin snail isn't going to do much of anything... they will overwhelm and likely kill it.  If you want to use assassin snails to control pest snails you will want at least 10 - 20 assassins.  I have a couple of friends who have been keeping/breeding assassins for a long time now (a few yrs) and I tried 5 of them in a 20 gallon that was overrun with mts and ram's horn snails.  The mts and ram's horns killed my assassins within a couple of wks.  I literally sat her and watched them gang up on my assassins, taking them out 1 at a time.  When I consulted with both of my friends they told me the same thing... it takes a lot of assassins to control even a moderate population of pest snails in any size tank.  Considering the cost of the assassins and the fact that they are live bearing and require male and female to reproduce, I didn't bother trying again.  They are very slow to reproduce as well... averaging 1 baby snail/wk once they get going.  The baby assassins also need to be separated from the adults or they, too, will be eaten by the adults.  Just thought you should know before you spend your money on 1 with hopes it will be of any help.  It likely will only end up dead.  :-( Dawn ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: So ya don't think 1 assassin would be enough in a 10 g Clare? I wonder if one would keep the numbers of the others down to an acceptable level, and reach a balance. That way I would still have some of the others, to eat algae and stir the substrate. Al. ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <clare@...> wrote: Hi, thought I would chime in since I have been where you are too and I used to purposefully breed the pond snails for my pea puffers. The assassin snails are fine as a predator for the smaller pond and mts snails...they are great at keeping a good balance of other snails in the tank but they never get them all and they will also breed, just at a slower rate. What I am getting at is that putting only one assassin into your tank will not make a dent, you will need a few, so be prepared for breeding of the assassins since the conditions are good and food is plentiful. The assassins will also predate each other if they get low on their favorite yummy snails....that is why I keep them. The only truly successful way I used to get rid of the snails without a teardown or chemicals is a school of young clown loaches, which you obviously do not have room for in such a small tank. My 115G planted tank is a testament to that. My 90G planted tank has a thriving population of assassins and some mts but are in good balance each doing their jobs :-) Good luck! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <al_keep_fish@...> wrote: > > I'm still squishing them, and they seem fewer; I did get on top of it early. > If I'm not successful that way, I think I'll get an assassin snail. When it's work is done, I'll remove It, and it can live out it's life in my other tank; and I'll repopulate the little planted tank with MT's. I will sure use one of the two methods I've read about to cleanse plants, before they go in next time. > > Al. > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55518	From: jaffacity	Date: 10/26/2013
Subject: Coelacanth at Kuwait Educational Science Museum

The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) at the Educational Science Museum, Kuwait City, State of Kuwait. By: Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa. Article Reference: Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) at the Educational Science Museum, Kuwait City, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 112, April 2014, Jumada Al Akhera 1435 AH. pp. 1–10.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait2013.htm On Sunday 22nd September 2013, I have visited, accompanied with my daughter Nora, the Educational Science Museum in Kuwait City, State of Kuwait. The Kuwait Educational Science Museum (Science and Natural History Museum) is located on Abdullah Al Mubarak Street, Kuwait City, State of Kuwait. The museum explores the country's technological and scientific progress and it contains big zoological collections, artifacts and demonstrations of the Petroleum industry in Kuwait. The museum is organized in the following departments: Natural History Department, Space Science Department, Planetarium, Electronics Department, Machinery Department, Zoology Department, Aviation Department and a Health hall (Wikipedia).                                                                 One of the various Halls was the Fish Hall. It contains a big collection of local fishes, which was caught off the Arabian Gulf coast of Kuwait (Khalaf 1987).   A Coelacanth Fish (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939) is displayed at Hamad Mohammad Al-Atiqi (Museum Director 1972-1988) Hall. The Coelacanth was a gift from the Government of the Islamic Federal Republic of the Comoros to the then Kuwaiti Foreign Minister (and now the Emir of Kuwait) H.H. Al-Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, who in turn gave it as a gift to the Science and Natural History Museum in August 1976. The Coelacanths constitute a rare order of fish that includes two extant species in the genus Latimeria: the West Indian Ocean coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae Smith, 1939) and the Indonesian coelacanth (Latimeria menadoensis Pouyaud, Wirjoatmodjo, Rachmatika, Tjakrawidjaja, Hadiaty & Hadie, 1999). They follow the oldest known living lineage of Sarcopterygii (lobe-finned fish and tetrapods), which means they are more closely related to lungfish, reptiles and mammals than to the common ray-finned fishes. They are found along the coastlines of the Indian Ocean and Indonesia. Since there are only two species of coelacanth and both are threatened, it is the most endangered order of animals in the world. The West Indian Ocean coelacanth is a critically endangered species (Wikipedia, Khalaf 2014). Coelacanths belong to the subclass Actinistia, a group of lobed-finned fish related to lungfish and certain extinct Devonian fish such as osteolepiforms, porolepiforms, rhizodonts, and Panderichthys. Coelacanths were thought to have gone extinct in the Late Cretaceous, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa. Traditionally, the coelacanth was considered a “living fossil” due to its apparent lack of significant evolution over the past millions of years; and the coelacanth was thought to have evolved into roughly its current form approximately 400 million years ago. However, several recent studies have shown that coelacanth body shapes are much more diverse than is generally said. In addition, it was shown recently that studies concluding that a slow rate of molecular evolution is linked to morphological conservatism in coelacanths are biased on the prior hypothesis that these species are “living fossils” (Wikipedia, Khalaf 2014). "Coelacanth" is an adaptation of Modern Latin Cœlacanthus "hollow spine," from Greek κοῖλ-ος koilos "hollow" + ἄκανθ-α akantha "spine," referring to the hollow caudal fin rays of the first fossil specimen described and named by Louis Agassiz in 1836 (Wikipedia). The coelacanths, which are related to lungfishes and tetrapods, were believed to have been extinct since the end of the Cretaceous period. More closely related to tetrapods than even the ray-finned fish, coelacanths were considered transitional species between fish and tetrapods. The first Latimeria specimen was found off the east coast of South Africa, off the Chalumna River (now Tyolomnqa) in 1938. Museum curator Marjorie Courtenay-Latimer discovered the fish among the catch of a local angler, Captain Hendrick Goosen, on 23 December 1938. A local chemistry professor, J.L.B. Smith, confirmed the fish's importance with a famous cable: "MOST IMPORTANT PRESERVE SKELETON AND GILLS = FISH DESCRIBED" (Wikipedia). The discovery of a species still living, when they were believed to have gone extinct 65 million years previously, makes the coelacanth the best-known example of a Lazarus taxon, an evolutionary line that seems to have disappeared from the fossil record only to reappear much later. Since 1938, Latimeria chalumnae have been found in the Comoros, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, Madagascar, and in iSimangaliso Wetland Park, KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa (Wikipedia). The second extant species, Latimeria menadoensis, was described from Manado, North Sulawesi, Indonesia in 1999 by Pouyaud et al. based on a specimen discovered by Mark V. Erdmann in 1998 and deposited at the Indonesian Institute of Sciences (LIPI). Only a photograph of the first specimen of this species was made at a local market by Erdmann and his wife Arnaz Mehta before it was bought by a shopper (Wikipedia).   The coelacanth has no real commercial value, apart from being coveted by museums and private collectors. As a food fish the coelacanth is almost worthless, as its tissues exude oils that give the flesh a foul flavor. The continued survival of the coelacanth may be threatened by commercial deep-sea trawling, in which coelacanths are caught as bycatch (Wikipedia). Coelacanths are a part of the clade Sarcopterygii, or the lobe-finned fishes. Externally, there are several characteristics that distinguish the coelacanth from other lobe-finned fish. They possess a three-lobed caudal fin, also called a trilobite fin or a diphycercal tail. A secondary tail that goes along and extends past the primary tail separates the upper and lower halves of the coelacanth. Cosmoid scales act as thick armor that protects the exterior of the coelacanth. There also are several internal traits that aid in differentiating coelacanths from other lobe-finned fish. At the back of the skull, the coelacanth possesses a hinge, the intracranial joint, which allows it to open its mouth extremely wide. Coelacanths also retain a notochord, a hollow, pressurized tube which is replaced by the vertebral column early in embryonic development in most other vertebrates. The heart of the coelacanth is shaped differently from that of most modern fish; the heart's chambers are arranged in a straight tube. The coelacanth braincase is 98.5% filled with fat; only 1.5% of the braincase contains brain tissue. The cheeks of the coelacanths are unique because the opercular bone is very small and holds a large soft-tissue opercular flap. The coelacanth also possesses a unique rostral organ within the ethmoid region of the braincase. Also unique to extant coelacanths is the presence of a "fatty lung" or a fat-filled single-lobed vestigial lung (Wikipedia). Latimeria chalumnae and Latimeria menadoensis are the only two known living coelacanth species. The word coelacanth is derived from the Greek for “hollow spine”, because of its unique hollow spine fins. Coelacanths are large, plump, lobe-finned fish that grow up to 1.8 meters. They are nocturnal piscivorous drift-hunters. The body is covered in cosmoid scales that act as armor. Coelacanths have 8 fins – 2 dorsal fins, 2 pectoral fins, 2 pelvic fins, 1 anal fin, and 1 caudal fin. The tail is very nearly equally proportioned and is split by a terminal tuft of fin rays that make up the caudal lobe of the tail. The eyes of the coelacanth are very large, while the mouth is very small. The eye is acclimatized to seeing in poor light by having rods that absorb mostly low wavelengths. The vision of coelacanths has evolved to a mainly blue-shifted color capacity. Pseudomaxillary folds surround the mouth, which replace the maxilla, a structure that is absent in coelacanths. There are two nostrils along with four other external openings that appear between the premaxilla and lateral rostral bones. The nasal sacs resemble those of many other fish and do not contain an internal nostril. The rostral organ of the coelacanth is contained within the ethmoid region of the braincase. It has three unguarded openings into the environment. The rostral organ is used as a part of the coelacanth's latero-sensory system. The coelacanth's auditory reception is mediated by its inner ear. The inner ear of the coelacanth is very similar to that of tetrapods because it is classified as being a basilar papilla (Wikipedia).   Locomotion of the coelacanths is unique to their kind. To move around, coelacanths most commonly take advantage of up or down-wellings of the current and drift. They use their paired fins to stabilize their movement through the water. While on the ocean floor, they do not use their paired fins for any kind of movement. Coelacanths can create thrust for quick starts by using their caudal fins. Due to the high number of fins it possesses, the coelacanth has high maneuverability and can orient its body in almost any direction in the water. They have been seen doing headstands and swimming belly up. It is thought that their rostral organ helps give the coelacanth electroperception, which aids in their movement around obstacles (Wikipedia). A group led by Chris Amemiya and Neil Shubin published the genome sequence of the coelacanth in the journal “Nature”. The African coelacanth genome was sequenced and assembled using DNA from a Comoros Islands Latimeria chalumnae specimen. It was sequenced by Illumina sequencing technology and assembled using the short read genome assembler ALLPATHS-LG (Wikipedia).   The vertebrate land transition is one of the most important steps in our evolutionary history. We conclude that the closest living fish to the tetrapod ancestor is the lungfish, not the coelacanth. However, the coelacanth is critical to our understanding of this transition, as the lungfish have intractable genome sizes (estimated at 50–100 GB) (Wikipedia). According to genetic analysis of current species, the divergence of coelacanths, lungfish, and tetrapods is thought to have occurred 390 million years ago. Coelacanths were thought to have undergone extinction 65 million years ago during the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. The first recorded coelacanth fossil was found in Australia and was of a coelacanth jaw that dated back 360 million years, named Eoachtinistia foreyi. The most recent species of coelacanth in the fossil record is the Macropoma. Macropoma, a sister species to Latimeria chalumnae, is separated by 80 million years. The fossil record of the coelacanth is unique because coelacanth fossils were found 100 years before the first live specimen was identified. In 1938, Courtenay-Latimer rediscovered the first live specimen, Latimeria chalumnae, which was caught off of the coast of East London, South Africa. In 1997, a marine biologist was on a honeymoon and discovered the second live species, Latimeria menadoensis in an Indonesian market. In July 1998, the first live specimen of Latimeria menadoensis was caught in Indonesia. Approximately 80 species of coelacanth have been described, including the two extant species. Before the discovery of a live coelacanth specimen, the coelacanth time range was thought to have spanned from the Middle Devonian to the Upper Cretaceous period. Although fossils found during that time were claimed to demonstrate a similar morphology, recent studies pointed out that coelacanth morphological conservatism is a belief that is not based on data (Wikipedia). References and Internet Websites: Association for the Preservation of the Coelacanth. http://gombessa.tripod.com/                                                                  Attenborough, David (1979). Life on Earth. Collins, London, Glasgow, Sydney, Auckland, Toronto, Johannesburg, and the British Broadcasting Corporation, London. 319 pp.                                                                                                 Blancpain. Project Gombessa. http://www.blancpain.com/projet-gombessa                                                                                                 Coelacanth News! http://www.dinofish.com/news.html                             Goldsmith, N. F. & Yanai-Inbar, I. (1997). Coelacanthid in Israel’s Early Miocene? Latimeria tests Schaeffer’s theory. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 17 (supp. 3), 49A.                                                                                                                  Gombessa Coelacanth Expedition. http://www.saiab.ac.za/saiabnews/gombessa-coelacanth-expedition.htm                                                                                                           Holder, Mark T.; Mark V. Erdmann, Thomas P. Wilcox, Roy L. Caldwell, and David M. Hillis (1999). Two living species of coelacanths? Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A. 1999 October 26; 96(22): 12616–12620. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC23015/                             Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (Zoology, Second Year) (1982). Samak Al-Coelacanth (The Coelacanth Fish). Al-Biology Magazine. Number 2, February 1982, Biological Society, Kuwait University, State of Kuwait. pp.14-15. (In Arabic). http://issuu.com/dr-normanalibassamkhalaf/docs/coelacanth_fish_al_biology_magazine                     Khalaf, Norman Ali Bassam (1987). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 15. Fifth Year, July 1987, Thul Qi’dah 1407 AH. Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Federal Republic of Germany. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait.htm                                              Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali Bassam (2005). Der Komoren-Quastenflosser (Latimeria chalumnae) und der Manado-Quastenflosser (Latimeria menadoensis). Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. Number 38, Twenty Third Year. February 2005. Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. pp. 1-8. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/                                                                        Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (Gründer) (seit Juni 2005). Der Quastenflosser: Coelacanth Latimeria Yahoo! Deutschland Group. http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/Quastenflosser/                                                  Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005: 376 Seiten / Pages. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://dr-norman-ali-khalaf-books.webs.com/aquaticaarabica.htm                    Khalaf-von Jaffa, Norman Ali (2005). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) in the Science and Natural History Museum, State of Kuwait. In : Aquatica Arabica. An Aquatic Scientific Journey in Palestine, Arabia and Europe between 1980 - 2005 / Aquatica Arabica. Eine Aquatische Wissenschaftliche Reise in Palästina, Arabien und Europa zwischen 1980 - 2005. ISBN 3-00-014835-3. Erste Auflage / First Edition, August 2005, pp. 110-117. Self-Publisher: Norman Ali Khalaf, Rilchingen-Hanweiler, Bundesrepublik Deutschland & Sharjah, United Arab Emirates.                                                                                                                     Khalaf, Dr. Norman Ali (Zoologist) (2011). A note on the Coelacanth of Kuwait. Readers’ Letters, National Geographic Al Arabiya Magazine. April 2011, Volume 2, Number 7, pp. 8. (In Arabic). http://www.flickr.com/photos/50022881@N00/10122383976/                        Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). † Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013 : A New Coelacanth Fish Fossil Species from Sharjah Natural History and Botanical Museum, Sharjah, Emirate of Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 106, October 2013, Thu Al Hijja 1434 AH. pp. 18–38.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthussharjah.htm                                     Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013). Taxon Profile: Species Sharjah Coelacanth Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013. BioLib. Biological Library.   http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id1068520/                                                 Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2013).  Sharjah Coelacanth († Coelacanthus sharjah Khalaf, 2013). EOL. Encyclopedia of Life.   http://eol.org/collections/95987/                                                             Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). A  Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) Model at the Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig in Bonn, Germany. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 111, March 2014, Jumada Al Oula 1435 AH. pp. 1–9.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthmuseumkoenig.htm                  Khalaf-Sakerfalke von Jaffa, Prof. Dr. Sc. Norman Ali Bassam Ali Taher (2014). The Coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) at the Educational Science Museum, Kuwait City, State of Kuwait. Gazelle: The Palestinian Biological Bulletin. ISSN 0178 - 6288. Number 112, April 2014, Jumada Al Akhera 1435 AH. pp. 1–10.  Dubai and Sharjah, United Arab Emirates. http://quastenflosser.webs.com/coelacanthkuwait2013.htm                    Pouyaud, Laurent; Wirjoatmodjo, Soetikno; Rachmatika, Ike; Tjakrawidjaja, Agus; Hadiaty, Renny; Hadie, Wartono (1999). Une nouvelle espèce de coelacanthe. Preuves génétiques et morphologiques. A new species of coelacanth. Comptes rendus de l'Académie des sciences - Série III - Sciences de la vie / Life Sciences - 1999, 322, 261-267. www.elsevier.fr/html/news/cras3mars99/pouyaud.html                                    Smith, J.L.B. (1939). A surviving fish of the order Actinistia. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 27: 47-50.                                                                                                                                      Smith, J.L.B. (1940). A living coelacanthid fish from South Africa. Trans. R. Soc. S. Afr. 28: 1-106.                                                                                                  Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History. The Coelacanth: More Living than Fossil. http://vertebrates.si.edu/fishes/coelacanth/coelacanth_wider.html Vorobjeva, E.I. and Obruchev, D.V. (1967). Subclass Sarcopterygii, pp. 480-498. In: Obruchev, D.V. (ed.). Fundamentals of Palaeontology, 11, Jerusalem: Israel Program for Scientific Translations.                                                            Wikipedia. Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth Wikipedia. Comoro Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comoro_Islands Wikipedia. Indonesian Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_coelacanth                             Wikipedia. Kuwait Science and Natural History Museum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait_Science_and_Natural_History_Museum                                          Wikipedia. Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabah_Al-Ahmad_Al-Jaber_Al-Sabah   Wikipedia. West Indian Ocean Coelacanth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indian_Ocean_coelacanth                  Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig. http://www.museumkoenig.de/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55519	From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013, 12:

Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55520	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...

Happy Birthday Aquatic Life Group.    Hope you've all enjoyed the waters!    We've enjoyed having you.     Ray -- One of Your Moderators       In a message dated 11/3/2013 7:01:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55521	From: pam andress	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...

I don't read the messages that often, but I'm still here. lol HAPPY BIRTHDAY AQUATIC LIFE GROUP! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss1@... Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 07:09:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...   Happy Birthday Aquatic Life Group.    Hope you've all enjoyed the waters!    We've enjoyed having you.     Ray -- One of Your Moderators       In a message dated 11/3/2013 7:01:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55522	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...

Thank you. Harry, a moderator On Sunday, November 3, 2013 3:01 PM, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote:   I don't read the messages that often, but I'm still here. lol HAPPY BIRTHDAY AQUATIC LIFE GROUP! To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com From: sevenspringss1@... Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 07:09:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/...   Happy Birthday Aquatic Life Group.    Hope you've all enjoyed the waters!    We've enjoyed having you.     Ray -- One of Your Moderators       In a message dated 11/3/2013 7:01:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com writes: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55523	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55524	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

On 11/3/2013 8:02 PM, megablasto2000@... wrote:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55525	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/3/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Hi Ken,   You are quite correct-they just want your money because most inert media material is almost indestructible & your ceramic beads are no exception. I have an Eheim canister that has been running with the same blue sponge divider for 7 years & it's as good as new, I think they suggested it was advisable to replace every 6 months or so. Before I upgraded I used a Fluval 3 internal & it had excellent sponges that lasted years. The longer you have inert filter media the better it gets.   John<o)))< On 4 November 2013 01:02, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55526	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/4/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55527	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Thanks, everyone! -Ken ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55528	From: jett07002	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,

A matter of curiosity;  just who is the groups founder?   Are moderators paid?  (As I am sure they should be for their time.)    joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > wrote: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55529	From: jett07002	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Just a suggestion.   Why don't you see what Fluval has to say?  At best, maybe we will learn something; at least, they would not answer you.       I would ask but I don't have any Fluval products and I, therefore, don't have any box registration or other information they may ask for.      If you would share their answer with the group that would certainly be a point of interest.   joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: Thanks, everyone! -Ken ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55530	From: Amber	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,

Aaron is the group founder. But he's a little hands off lately (busy life and such). All of your moderators are people who have volunteered their time to help everyone out :) I admit I'm not here as often as I used to be, but I do check in now and then to help moderate posts and sometimes reply to them if no one has yet. Amber On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:13:19 -0900, <jett07002@...> wrote:   A matter of curiosity;  just who is the groups founder?   Are moderators paid?  (As I am sure they should be for their time.)    joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > wrote: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55531	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,

Aaron Martin founded the group. No, the moderators are not paid a dime, It is strictly volunteer. Harry. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:44 AM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: Aaron is the group founder. But he's a little hands off lately (busy life and such). All of your moderators are people who have volunteered their time to help everyone out :) I admit I'm not here as often as I used to be, but I do check in now and then to help moderate posts and sometimes reply to them if no one has yet. Amber On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:13:19 -0900, <jett07002@...> wrote:   A matter of curiosity;  just who is the groups founder?   Are moderators paid?  (As I am sure they should be for their time.)    joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > wrote: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55532	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 11/4/2013,

Yes & you do an excellent job thank you so much!   John<o)))< On 5 November 2013 21:35, Harry Perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote:   Aaron Martin founded the group. No, the moderators are not paid a dime, It is strictly volunteer. Harry. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 11:44 AM, Amber <arberglund@...> wrote: Aaron is the group founder. But he's a little hands off lately (busy life and such). All of your moderators are people who have volunteered their time to help everyone out :) I admit I'm not here as often as I used to be, but I do check in now and then to help moderate posts and sometimes reply to them if no one has yet. Amber On Tue, 05 Nov 2013 06:13:19 -0900, <jett07002@...> wrote:   A matter of curiosity;  just who is the groups founder?   Are moderators paid?  (As I am sure they should be for their time.)    joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > wrote: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55533	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002, 1...

Are the Moderators Paid ??????   HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHAHa !!!!!!!!!   Ray -- (A Moderator Here)       In a message dated 11/5/2013 10:13:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jett07002@... writes:   A matter of curiosity;  just who is the groups founder?   Are moderators paid?  (As I am sure they should be for their time.)    joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > wrote: Reminder from:   AquaticLife Yahoo Group   Title:   AquaticLife Yahoo! Fish Group ~ Founded: Nov 4, 2002   Date:   Monday November 4, 2013 Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London Location:   http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife/message/31 Notes:   Add a Friend @ MySpace.com/AquaticLifeGroup ~ AquaticLife ~ the #1 Yahoo! Fish Group, was Originally Named "FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium" Group Name Officially Changed on: Friday, January 28th, 2005 ~ Moderator Activity 1771-1800 of 21521 Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm Edit (Changed name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium -> AquaticLife) by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8138 New Group Name - AquaticLife This message is to Notify all members of the group address change. Previous Group Name: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium New Group Name: AquaticLife New Email Address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com New Web Address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife Please update any Links and Bookmarks with the new name. Thank You ~ Message #8137 [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name change Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name to AquaticLife. This means that both the group's email address and the group home page location have changed. The group email address: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com The group home page location: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AquaticLife If you have links which point to this group or an address book entry for the group, you should update them, as the old addresses will no longer work. Regards, Yahoo! Groups Customer Care ~ Message #8140 Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm [AquaticLife] FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group name/addresses have changed Hello, The moderator of the FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium group has changed the group's name. ~ Jan 29, 2005 3:21 am Changed category by tropicalfishman ~ Message #8145 New Group Category: Fish We are now the Largest of all Yahoo! Fish Groups. Old Category - Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Hobbies > Aquariums NEW Category - Top > Science > Biology > Animals > Marine Life > Fish   Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55534	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/5/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Hi Joet,   Not a bad idea you have there.  But, as with any company in business to make money, do you really think you'd get an unbiased, objective answer?   Not that a respected company like Fluval would be out to mislead us, but they are marketing their products to make money.  There's the (good) chance that they'd promote the sale of their ceramic media as a filter maintenance procedure to be carried out as changing it rather than cleaning it.  After all, one seemingly really can't go wrong with replacing a used medium with new, as being in the best interest of quality aquarium maintenance to keep the hobbyists' fish in as top shape as possible (except for completely removing the nitrobacters which are keeping the tank cycled!!!).  It may be worth a try though, at least in taking their suggestions with a grain of salt, and see where they stand on this.   Ray       In a message dated 11/5/2013 10:17:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jett07002@... writes:       Just a suggestion.   Why don't you see what Fluval has to say?  At best, maybe we will learn something; at least, they would not answer you.       I would ask but I don't have any Fluval products and I, therefore, don't have any box registration or other information they may ask for.      If you would share their answer with the group that would certainly be a point of interest.   joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: Thanks, everyone! -Ken ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55535	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

Hi Ray & Joet,   I have noticed many manufacturers get round this stumbling block by suggesting we change a percentage of that media in rotation rather than changing it all out at once. That way they cover both bases-the old media seeds the new thereby keeping thee tank's eco-system nicely ticking over yet still replacing it all over & over therefore making them money. As you say Ray, it would be interesting to hear their viewpoint on this one.   John<o)))< On 6 November 2013 00:48, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi Joet,   Not a bad idea you have there.  But, as with any company in business to make money, do you really think you'd get an unbiased, objective answer?   Not that a respected company like Fluval would be out to mislead us, but they are marketing their products to make money.  There's the (good) chance that they'd promote the sale of their ceramic media as a filter maintenance procedure to be carried out as changing it rather than cleaning it.  After all, one seemingly really can't go wrong with replacing a used medium with new, as being in the best interest of quality aquarium maintenance to keep the hobbyists' fish in as top shape as possible (except for completely removing the nitrobacters which are keeping the tank cycled!!!).  It may be worth a try though, at least in taking their suggestions with a grain of salt, and see where they stand on this.   Ray       In a message dated 11/5/2013 10:17:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jett07002@... writes:       Just a suggestion.   Why don't you see what Fluval has to say?  At best, maybe we will learn something; at least, they would not answer you.       I would ask but I don't have any Fluval products and I, therefore, don't have any box registration or other information they may ask for.      If you would share their answer with the group that would certainly be a point of interest.   joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: Thanks, everyone! -Ken ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55536	From: Kevin Boyle	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Re: ceramic beads...do they needto be replaced?

On 11/6/2013 4:05 PM, SIMMONDS JOHN wrote:   Hi Ray & Joet,   I have noticed many manufacturers get round this stumbling block by suggesting we change a percentage of that media in rotation rather than changing it all out at once. That way they cover both bases-the old media seeds the new thereby keeping thee tank's eco-system nicely ticking over yet still replacing it all over & over therefore making them money. As you say Ray, it would be interesting to hear their viewpoint on this one.   John<o)))< On 6 November 2013 00:48, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi Joet,   Not a bad idea you have there.  But, as with any company in business to make money, do you really think you'd get an unbiased, objective answer?   Not that a respected company like Fluval would be out to mislead us, but they are marketing their products to make money.  There's the (good) chance that they'd promote the sale of their ceramic media as a filter maintenance procedure to be carried out as changing it rather than cleaning it.  After all, one seemingly really can't go wrong with replacing a used medium with new, as being in the best interest of quality aquarium maintenance to keep the hobbyists' fish in as top shape as possible (except for completely removing the nitrobacters which are keeping the tank cycled!!!).  It may be worth a try though, at least in taking their suggestions with a grain of salt, and see where they stand on this.   Ray       In a message dated 11/5/2013 10:17:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jett07002@... writes:       Just a suggestion.   Why don't you see what Fluval has to say?  At best, maybe we will learn something; at least, they would not answer you.       I would ask but I don't have any Fluval products and I, therefore, don't have any box registration or other information they may ask for.      If you would share their answer with the group that would certainly be a point of interest.   joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: Thanks, everyone! -Ken ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Ken,   I see absolutely no reason why a biofiltration medium would ever need to be replaced, regardless of the material it's made of, and ceramic can't go "bad" after 3 months or for any finite length of time.  Unlike activated Carbon, which does have a finite useful life period, Ceramic is an inert, stable material that is not affected by the aquarium water's chemistry and once the nitrifying bacteria colonize it, they're there for the length of time the aquarium is set up, or until the filter is moved to another aquarium having a smaller bioload.  It would be pointless to take the six weeks to cycle a tank using ceramic media if this medium had to be discarded after 3 months, necessitating the tank to be cycled all over again from square one with fresh ceramic filter media.   Aquarium filter Ceramic media however, is porous which adds to its effectiveness in colonizing nitrifying bacteria.  As its pores vary in size, the smallest of them may get clogged up in time but this in where cleaning them (instead of replacing them) comes in.  This medium should be cleaned periodically in a bucket of the same aquarium water you're discarding during a partial water change.  A vigorous swishing of them in this water will remove much of the built up debris.  After several years, the smallest pores may become too filled to be able to be cleaned (although the bacteria will still reside throughout).  At this time, you may want to consider replacing half of it at a time -- if that's possible.  I'm not sure if you're referring to the pre-filter Bio-Max ceramic rings or not, since you haven't stated that, but any pre-filter will be subjected to retaining more of the debris than the proceeding media -- which is why many filters position their mechanical filter medium first, rather than a biological medium.   Ray         In a message dated 11/3/2013 8:43:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I bought these Fluval ceramic bead things to increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria to grow on.  The box said they are only good for 3 months.  Is that true, or does Fluval just want me to buy more beads in 3 months? -Ken Bagwell The bottom line is that they don't wear out.  i have some that i have using for 20 years and they still look the same. Maybe once every couiple of years i will dump them into a tray and really spray them 'till they are clean and all the gunk is washed off, other than that why would you replace them? Being made of ceramic they just don't wear out and the once every three  months cleaning of the filter keeps them pretty much (but not too much) gunk free.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55537	From: janicedewire	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Gravel

Hello everyone. I had written in weeks back about my one Oscar not eating and just laying at the bottom of his tank. He is now after a month back to his old self again. I think he hurt his jaw or mouth from fooling around with the rocks in his tank. After 2 weeks no eating. Another 2 weeks of ONLY being able to eat meal worms, earth worms and very small pellets he all of a sudden one day made an attempt at trying to eat a frozen ball of blood worms..spit it out. This happened a couple times until one day when feeding his tank mate he aggressively came to the top, grabbed the blood worms and ate them. After he was on the mend I noticed he was picking up rocks and moving them/tossing them around. He had a large flat rock in there as big as him and I saw him lifting that. I removed now all the rocks. My question now is what is my next step? He also rips plants up and drags them all over. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55538	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/6/2013
Subject: Mystery Snails - - Color

I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55539	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gravel

First, you need to know that NO food should EVER be offered ANY fish in a frozen state, especially a clump (ball) of it.  All frozen foods large enough to remain frozen until eaten should be thawed out first before being fed to a fish.  Smaller foods, such as adult brine shrimp broken off as a piece containing many from the flat pack package may be swished through the water until thawed, when it will be eaten by the fish in this state -- but it too should not just be thrown in as a frozen section.  Would you want to swallow a scoop of ice cream without melting it slowly in your mouth?  Keep in mind, as fish are cold-blooded, they can't even melt anything in their mouths.  Yes, they can break it up, but it would still reach their stomachs frozen.    Oscars are territorial, and removing plants is something that needs to be expected of them.  They don't want any plants in their vicinity that would obscure their line of site within their territory.  They will also rearrange their aquascape to fit their own needs.  Now . . . what IS this "next step" that you're expecting -- or that you're looking for to happen?  If you're looking for a way to stop this behavior, there's no way it's going to happen, as that's just the nature of these fish -- it's their natural instinct.  Probably one of the best things you could have done, IF it was lifting a rock that cause it's injury, was to remove all of them.  Or, you could put much larger rocks in there that's impossible for him to lift; at least you'd have something more than an otherwise bare tank and gravel.    Ray       In a message dated 11/6/2013 10:28:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   Hello everyone. I had written in weeks back about my one Oscar not eating and just laying at the bottom of his tank. He is now after a month back to his old self again. I think he hurt his jaw or mouth from fooling around with the rocks in his tank. After 2 weeks no eating. Another 2 weeks of ONLY being able to eat meal worms, earth worms and very small pellets he all of a sudden one day made an attempt at trying to eat a frozen ball of blood worms..spit it out. This happened a couple times until one day when feeding his tank mate he aggressively came to the top, grabbed the blood worms and ate them. After he was on the mend I noticed he was picking up rocks and moving them/tossing them around. He had a large flat rock in there as big as him and I saw him lifting that. I removed now all the rocks. My question now is what is my next step? He also rips plants up and drags them all over. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55540	From: Amber	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

They won't change colors, they might darken or lighten based on what they started, but they won't change to another color :(  Depending on what colors the parents carried in their genetics though the babies can be different colors from the parents. I really enjoyed having mystery snails but they don't live very long for me, I think my water is too soft for them.  Try checking out applesnail.net they have a lot of info about snails, not just mystery snails, all of the types of apple snails, and how to identify them, and even the pest snails. Amber On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55541	From: Amber	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

I just wanted to add one thing about apple snails. They are a HUGE pest in a lot of countries now because they have "escaped" into the wild and repopulated and are affecting local waterways. Please be responsible and don't throw any of your snails into any local ponds or rivers.  Amber On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55542	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Gravel

Hi Janice,   Another point about feeding still-frozen foods, the block in it's solid state contains a lot of 'junk' in the fluid that will simply add to your bio-load once it melts & cause algae so it's always a good idea to thaw them out beforehand & preferably separate the solid stuff from the liquid.    John<o)))< On 7 November 2013 12:28, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   First, you need to know that NO food should EVER be offered ANY fish in a frozen state, especially a clump (ball) of it.  All frozen foods large enough to remain frozen until eaten should be thawed out first before being fed to a fish.  Smaller foods, such as adult brine shrimp broken off as a piece containing many from the flat pack package may be swished through the water until thawed, when it will be eaten by the fish in this state -- but it too should not just be thrown in as a frozen section.  Would you want to swallow a scoop of ice cream without melting it slowly in your mouth?  Keep in mind, as fish are cold-blooded, they can't even melt anything in their mouths.  Yes, they can break it up, but it would still reach their stomachs frozen.    Oscars are territorial, and removing plants is something that needs to be expected of them.  They don't want any plants in their vicinity that would obscure their line of site within their territory.  They will also rearrange their aquascape to fit their own needs.  Now . . . what IS this "next step" that you're expecting -- or that you're looking for to happen?  If you're looking for a way to stop this behavior, there's no way it's going to happen, as that's just the nature of these fish -- it's their natural instinct.  Probably one of the best things you could have done, IF it was lifting a rock that cause it's injury, was to remove all of them.  Or, you could put much larger rocks in there that's impossible for him to lift; at least you'd have something more than an otherwise bare tank and gravel.    Ray       In a message dated 11/6/2013 10:28:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, janicedewire@... writes:   Hello everyone. I had written in weeks back about my one Oscar not eating and just laying at the bottom of his tank. He is now after a month back to his old self again. I think he hurt his jaw or mouth from fooling around with the rocks in his tank. After 2 weeks no eating. Another 2 weeks of ONLY being able to eat meal worms, earth worms and very small pellets he all of a sudden one day made an attempt at trying to eat a frozen ball of blood worms..spit it out. This happened a couple times until one day when feeding his tank mate he aggressively came to the top, grabbed the blood worms and ate them. After he was on the mend I noticed he was picking up rocks and moving them/tossing them around. He had a large flat rock in there as big as him and I saw him lifting that. I removed now all the rocks. My question now is what is my next step? He also rips plants up and drags them all over. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55543	From: Gwydryn2000	Date: 11/7/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

I have not had luck with those. But I have the Japanese trapdoors . Mine are livebearers. Next spring I will try again mystery snails . If you raise too many let me know so I can get some. Enid  Sent from my Samsung Smart Phone -------- Original message -------- Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails - - Color From: Amber <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com CC: They won't change colors, they might darken or lighten based on what they started, but they won't change to another color :(  Depending on what colors the parents carried in their genetics though the babies can be different colors from the parents. I really enjoyed having mystery snails but they don't live very long for me, I think my water is too soft for them.  Try checking out applesnail.net they have a lot of info about snails, not just mystery snails, all of the types of apple snails, and how to identify them, and even the pest snails. Amber On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55544	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

Most snails are very prolific.  The worst, hardest to control in the aquarium I have experience are the Japanese live bearing.  Back in the 50’s; I removed the sand from each of my aquariums one at a time and boiled it in order to get rid of them.   A couple of years ago I went bare bottom in a 55 that contained a clown.  While I was picking out the larger ones the clown was eating the little ones.  It took about a year but I managed to get rid of all of them.   The thing with them you think all is well then one morning,  the substrate has become uninhabitable and the aquarium walls are covered with snails and hundreds more at the water line.   As for the mystery snails,  I let only nest hatch.  I have destroyed a half dozen or so.  Yesterday I crushed 25.  The corys love them.  I was surprised that the bristle nose plecos also had a feast.   I still have way too many.  If you are in the US of A I would be happy to send for postage.  Send contact info to my personal email.   Just Micky BCC: Enid   From: Gwydryn2000 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:13 PM To: aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails - - Color   I have not had luck with those. But I have the Japanese trapdoors . Mine are livebearers. Next spring I will try again mystery snails . If you raise too many let me know so I can get some. Enid Sent from my Samsung Smart Phone -------- Original message -------- Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails - - Color From: Amber <arberglund@...> To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com CC: They won't change colors, they might darken or lighten based on what they started, but they won't change to another color :( Depending on what colors the parents carried in their genetics though the babies can be different colors from the parents. I really enjoyed having mystery snails but they don't live very long for me, I think my water is too soft for them. Try checking out applesnail.net they have a lot of info about snails, not just mystery snails, all of the types of apple snails, and how to identify them, and even the pest snails.   Amber   On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55545	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

no pet should ever be let loose.  Even if it is a tropical that will freeze come winter.  Not only, it might be invasive in its new environment.  It might be carrying disease or parasites that could do great damage to the environment.       From: Amber Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 11:06 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails - - Color   I just wanted to add one thing about apple snails. They are a HUGE pest in a lot of countries now because they have "escaped" into the wild and repopulated and are affecting local waterways. Please be responsible and don't throw any of your snails into any local ponds or rivers.   Amber   On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55546	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: Re: Mystery Snails - - Color

Thanks.  I spent some time on the page you sent.   In years past I had one of the apple snails that has a large appetite for plants.  I put it in my pond with water hyacinth for the summer.  It got bigger than my fist.  I sold it at club auction in the fall.       From: Amber Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 10:57 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Mystery Snails - - Color   They won't change colors, they might darken or lighten based on what they started, but they won't change to another color :( Depending on what colors the parents carried in their genetics though the babies can be different colors from the parents. I really enjoyed having mystery snails but they don't live very long for me, I think my water is too soft for them. Try checking out applesnail.net they have a lot of info about snails, not just mystery snails, all of the types of apple snails, and how to identify them, and even the pest snails.   Amber   On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 18:56:57 -0900, Just Micky <Too_fishy@...> wrote:   I have a couple mystery snails, one yellow and one blue.  I let one nest hatch in my 50 gallon tank.  They are now a little larger than garden peas.   The color, I think is wild type.  That is; a mottled brown.   Question.  Does anyone know if they are likely to change color or is this the color they will stay.   Thanks for any comments. Micky -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55547	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/8/2013
Subject: What is the purpose of gravel?

I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55548	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?

Ken,   In general, not having gravel in a goldfish aquarium is neither good nor bad -- and I'm assuming you mean as associated with the fish, not the hobbyist.  Not having gravel will not adversely affect these fish, they really don't need gravel to subsist.  On the other hand, they do like to browse through it, looking for food, picking up individual pieces of the gravel.  While it's remote, there have been a small number of instances where these gravel pieces have become stuck within the fish's mouths and/or throats.  In nature, the wild Carassius auratus have evolved in waterways having a much less coarse bottom.  If you'd like, you could use a thin layer of aquarium sand but it's not at all needed, or even a small layer of aquarium gravel that's obviously much smaller than the fish's mouths -- but otherwise serving no practical purpose.  Not knowing what size goldfish you're referring to, even the commercial grade #3 aquarium gravel may be too large for some goldfish.  Definitely stay away from river gravel, having various larger sizes, some of which may be such a hazard to these fish.  A plus for the hobbyist when having a bare bottom tank is that it's so much easier to clean off the bottom when doing weekly tank maintenance.  Some fishes are nervous over bare glass bottom tanks, although I'm not aware that the goldfish is one of them.  Many hobbyists paint the tank's bottom (often black, but could be tan, etc.) -- from underneath, not from inside -- if you feel you need to go this route, which greatly reduces this anxiety in any fish so affected.  John (our resident, long time, large goldfish keeper < g >) on here may be able to add to this.    Ray     In a message dated 11/9/2013 2:27:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55549	From: jett07002	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?

Hi Ken,   Unless you want to have plants in a gold fish tank, there is really no reason to have the gravel.  Goldfish are plant nibblers and will probably pull them out of the gravel and so many hobbyists prefer not to plant the tank.  By not having gravel you make the tank a lot easier to clean since goldfish get to be pretty big, are almost constantly eating and dirty the tank.  It is much easier to siphon out that poop without gravel in the tank.   If you want more of a show tank and do not mind the extra work, you can use gravel and plant it.  But be prepared  to replant and replace plants often.   As with any other fish, you should try to keep the aquarium as clean as possible with frequent, timely partial water changes.  As you siphon you should go along the bottom and take out the poop.  Without the gravel this is an easier job.   joet   Good luck.  Enjoy your goldfish. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55550	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/9/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?

Thanks Ray!  Hi Ken-I have a 100 gallon long tank with large Goldfish & have tried sand, gravel & nothing over the past 5 years. I had 4 fish but unfortunately I lost my female Common of 9 years a couple of months ago, probably to internal cancer as she had skin cancer for some time which was treated but you never know how far it is spread so now I have 3 big male Comets aged 8, 9 & 10. Originally I had no substrate in the tank except my plant pots & several large aquarium safe pebbles. It was ok & easy to clean but the fish just seemed bored with it so after a while I started using a half inch thick layer of very fine, almost sandy gravel. This was better because the fish would churn through it constantly & were obviously happy & more at home. They did ingest large amounts of this stuff due to it being so small & passed it easily. This was not a problem in itself but their poop was frequently white because of this . White poop can be a sign of bacterial problems in the gut but also when you have a sandy substrate it abrades the gut & causes this so 2 years ago I syphoned out all my sandy substrate & replaced it with pea sized gravel which is the very best thing I have had for them-they love it & because they are so large there is no danger of them swallowing anything & I also made sure to get aquarium mix rather than general building mix. This is for a couple of reasons-firstly building mix has a lot of irregular & sharp edges that can hurt the fish but also it can contain rocks that alter the chemistry of your tank so a good quality aquarium mix is always advisable if nothing else it has only inert rock. For smaller fish use 3mm diameter 'Roman Gravel' or similar as it is rounded & not a danger to choking. In the early days one of my fish got a piece of sharp gravel stuck in the back of his throat & I was at a loss to what to do & had only had them a couple of months. I hastily fashioned a hoop out of a paper clip & gently worked it out from his mouth-must have been ok as he is my biggest & oldest fish Apricot! I have approx 1 inch of gravel throughout the tank & it works fine-looks very nice too plus the fish are constantly tilling through it getting big mouthfuls which they often spit over each other! True-a bare tank base can be easier to clean but there is also less surface area for good bacteria to colonise without substrate & you are largely relying on the  filter sponges alone. It is also true that Carps need a little bit of muck for a healthy environment-if you clean too much it can be detrimental, I always just vacuum a portion of the gravel when I do a 25% water change which is every 2 days. The fish take care of the waste anyway with their constant foraging they churn every bit of debris to a fine powder that goes into the water column & ultimately the filters, I hardly ever see any loose debris floating around the tank. A word about plants & Goldfish-my tank is full of real plants & my fish are not interested in them because they don't like them. They will only eat the plants that they find tasty & I have experimented over the years with many plants-some of them expensive & very nice looking but they have destroyed nearly everything! The ones I have now are Jungle Vallis, Anacharis & various Hornworts. I'm not suggesting all fish will be the same but my lot are not interested in these plants so they grow profusely. I am constantly pruning & cutting them back-my Vallis has just flowered again which I am very proud of because it had never done this until last year.   John<o)))< On 9 November 2013 20:33, <jett07002@...> wrote:   Hi Ken,   Unless you want to have plants in a gold fish tank, there is really no reason to have the gravel.  Goldfish are plant nibblers and will probably pull them out of the gravel and so many hobbyists prefer not to plant the tank.  By not having gravel you make the tank a lot easier to clean since goldfish get to be pretty big, are almost constantly eating and dirty the tank.  It is much easier to siphon out that poop without gravel in the tank.   If you want more of a show tank and do not mind the extra work, you can use gravel and plant it.  But be prepared  to replant and replace plants often.   As with any other fish, you should try to keep the aquarium as clean as possible with frequent, timely partial water changes.  As you siphon you should go along the bottom and take out the poop.  Without the gravel this is an easier job.   joet   Good luck.  Enjoy your goldfish. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55551	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Question about cermramic media

Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55552	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?

Thanks for the responses guys.   Maybe what I will try is making a boxed area with gravel in it and let the rest of the tank be clear on the floor.  That would be a compromise between having a bare floor and boring my fish to death.  They do seem to enjoy playing around with the rocks, so it probably would be inadviseable to eliminate the gravel altogether.   -Ken ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Thanks Ray!  Hi Ken-I have a 100 gallon long tank with large Goldfish & have tried sand, gravel & nothing over the past 5 years. I had 4 fish but unfortunately I lost my female Common of 9 years a couple of months ago, probably to internal cancer as she had skin cancer for some time which was treated but you never know how far it is spread so now I have 3 big male Comets aged 8, 9 & 10. Originally I had no substrate in the tank except my plant pots & several large aquarium safe pebbles. It was ok & easy to clean but the fish just seemed bored with it so after a while I started using a half inch thick layer of very fine, almost sandy gravel. This was better because the fish would churn through it constantly & were obviously happy & more at home. They did ingest large amounts of this stuff due to it being so small & passed it easily. This was not a problem in itself but their poop was frequently white because of this . White poop can be a sign of bacterial problems in the gut but also when you have a sandy substrate it abrades the gut & causes this so 2 years ago I syphoned out all my sandy substrate & replaced it with pea sized gravel which is the very best thing I have had for them-they love it & because they are so large there is no danger of them swallowing anything & I also made sure to get aquarium mix rather than general building mix. This is for a couple of reasons-firstly building mix has a lot of irregular & sharp edges that can hurt the fish but also it can contain rocks that alter the chemistry of your tank so a good quality aquarium mix is always advisable if nothing else it has only inert rock. For smaller fish use 3mm diameter 'Roman Gravel' or similar as it is rounded & not a danger to choking. In the early days one of my fish got a piece of sharp gravel stuck in the back of his throat & I was at a loss to what to do & had only had them a couple of months. I hastily fashioned a hoop out of a paper clip & gently worked it out from his mouth-must have been ok as he is my biggest & oldest fish Apricot! I have approx 1 inch of gravel throughout the tank & it works fine-looks very nice too plus the fish are constantly tilling through it getting big mouthfuls which they often spit over each other! True-a bare tank base can be easier to clean but there is also less surface area for good bacteria to colonise without substrate & you are largely relying on the  filter sponges alone. It is also true that Carps need a little bit of muck for a healthy environment-if you clean too much it can be detrimental, I always just vacuum a portion of the gravel when I do a 25% water change which is every 2 days. The fish take care of the waste anyway with their constant foraging they churn every bit of debris to a fine powder that goes into the water column & ultimately the filters, I hardly ever see any loose debris floating around the tank. A word about plants & Goldfish-my tank is full of real plants & my fish are not interested in them because they don't like them. They will only eat the plants that they find tasty & I have experimented over the years with many plants-some of them expensive & very nice looking but they have destroyed nearly everything! The ones I have now are Jungle Vallis, Anacharis & various Hornworts. I'm not suggesting all fish will be the same but my lot are not interested in these plants so they grow profusely. I am constantly pruning & cutting them back-my Vallis has just flowered again which I am very proud of because it had never done this until last year.   John<o)))< On 9 November 2013 20:33, <jett07002@...> wrote:   Hi Ken,   Unless you want to have plants in a gold fish tank, there is really no reason to have the gravel.  Goldfish are plant nibblers and will probably pull them out of the gravel and so many hobbyists prefer not to plant the tank.  By not having gravel you make the tank a lot easier to clean since goldfish get to be pretty big, are almost constantly eating and dirty the tank.  It is much easier to siphon out that poop without gravel in the tank.   If you want more of a show tank and do not mind the extra work, you can use gravel and plant it.  But be prepared  to replant and replace plants often.   As with any other fish, you should try to keep the aquarium as clean as possible with frequent, timely partial water changes.  As you siphon you should go along the bottom and take out the poop.  Without the gravel this is an easier job.   joet   Good luck.  Enjoy your goldfish. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55553	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: confused about biological media

so, if i use a ceramic media for biological filtration, and i supposed to allow the media to be exposed to air somwhow, or does it simply need to be submerged in flowing water? I was under the impression from a video that the media should have bubbles flowing through it because the media needed oxygen. but then canister filter designs dont have that, so what is the best method for porous ceramic media

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55554	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media

Ken,   Biological filter media do not need to be exposed to air, nor do they need to have bubbles going through it -- and this includes ceramic media -- and even in canister filters (as asked in one of your subsequent questions).  The purpose of having these media in a filter -- any filter -- is to have water flowing by them which will supply the nitrobacters with dissolved oxygen in a constantly renewed state.  "Renewed," because of the water flow continually flowing past these bacteria.  Nitrobacters thrive best in an oxygen-rich environment; they are aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) life forms (Monera), requiring oxygen and at the same time are also autotrophic (as opposed to heterotrophic) chemotrophs; their metabolism being able to synthesize their own food with oxidation of it at the same time.  By this, you can see that the cleaner would be the water, the more beneficial this flow would be in carrying the maximum amount of dissolved water at all times.  Exposing biological media to air in either form, just as pure atmospheric or as atmospheric bubbles, while continued to remain wet at all times (these bacteria still need to get their oxygen in an aqueous state), will ensure the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen in the water at any time but water at any given temperature can only hold a certain given amount of oxygen regardless of the height ("thickness," as in just a coating when emersed in air) of the water in the filter.  For this reason, among others, the aquarium water should be attempted to be kept as pristine as possible to be able to dissolved its maximum oxygen load.   To put it a simpler way, nitrobacters have evolved over the eons in a completely submersed state.  Excepting where water flows as a break -- over rocks in a river or over a waterfall -- nature does not supply these bacteria with air bubbles, yet they've thrived for millions of years.  They don't NEED to be exposed to air to be able to obtain their optimum amount of dissolved oxygen.  With the possibility of water quality going down in the aquarium environment, exposure to air (while still being kept wet) will help ensure the most dissolved oxygen but the quality of the water still dictates how much oxygen it's able to hold and to be available to these bacteria.   Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 3:27:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55555	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of gravel?

Hi Ken,   Having the gravel in a segregated area is a nice idea & I thought about it too but you will be wasting your time because your Goldfish will distribute it all around the tank in no time!   John<o)))< On 10 November 2013 07:54, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Thanks for the responses guys.   Maybe what I will try is making a boxed area with gravel in it and let the rest of the tank be clear on the floor.  That would be a compromise between having a bare floor and boring my fish to death.  They do seem to enjoy playing around with the rocks, so it probably would be inadviseable to eliminate the gravel altogether.   -Ken ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <simmonds.john@...> wrote: Thanks Ray!  Hi Ken-I have a 100 gallon long tank with large Goldfish & have tried sand, gravel & nothing over the past 5 years. I had 4 fish but unfortunately I lost my female Common of 9 years a couple of months ago, probably to internal cancer as she had skin cancer for some time which was treated but you never know how far it is spread so now I have 3 big male Comets aged 8, 9 & 10. Originally I had no substrate in the tank except my plant pots & several large aquarium safe pebbles. It was ok & easy to clean but the fish just seemed bored with it so after a while I started using a half inch thick layer of very fine, almost sandy gravel. This was better because the fish would churn through it constantly & were obviously happy & more at home. They did ingest large amounts of this stuff due to it being so small & passed it easily. This was not a problem in itself but their poop was frequently white because of this . White poop can be a sign of bacterial problems in the gut but also when you have a sandy substrate it abrades the gut & causes this so 2 years ago I syphoned out all my sandy substrate & replaced it with pea sized gravel which is the very best thing I have had for them-they love it & because they are so large there is no danger of them swallowing anything & I also made sure to get aquarium mix rather than general building mix. This is for a couple of reasons-firstly building mix has a lot of irregular & sharp edges that can hurt the fish but also it can contain rocks that alter the chemistry of your tank so a good quality aquarium mix is always advisable if nothing else it has only inert rock. For smaller fish use 3mm diameter 'Roman Gravel' or similar as it is rounded & not a danger to choking. In the early days one of my fish got a piece of sharp gravel stuck in the back of his throat & I was at a loss to what to do & had only had them a couple of months. I hastily fashioned a hoop out of a paper clip & gently worked it out from his mouth-must have been ok as he is my biggest & oldest fish Apricot! I have approx 1 inch of gravel throughout the tank & it works fine-looks very nice too plus the fish are constantly tilling through it getting big mouthfuls which they often spit over each other! True-a bare tank base can be easier to clean but there is also less surface area for good bacteria to colonise without substrate & you are largely relying on the  filter sponges alone. It is also true that Carps need a little bit of muck for a healthy environment-if you clean too much it can be detrimental, I always just vacuum a portion of the gravel when I do a 25% water change which is every 2 days. The fish take care of the waste anyway with their constant foraging they churn every bit of debris to a fine powder that goes into the water column & ultimately the filters, I hardly ever see any loose debris floating around the tank. A word about plants & Goldfish-my tank is full of real plants & my fish are not interested in them because they don't like them. They will only eat the plants that they find tasty & I have experimented over the years with many plants-some of them expensive & very nice looking but they have destroyed nearly everything! The ones I have now are Jungle Vallis, Anacharis & various Hornworts. I'm not suggesting all fish will be the same but my lot are not interested in these plants so they grow profusely. I am constantly pruning & cutting them back-my Vallis has just flowered again which I am very proud of because it had never done this until last year.   John<o)))< On 9 November 2013 20:33, <jett07002@...> wrote:   Hi Ken,   Unless you want to have plants in a gold fish tank, there is really no reason to have the gravel.  Goldfish are plant nibblers and will probably pull them out of the gravel and so many hobbyists prefer not to plant the tank.  By not having gravel you make the tank a lot easier to clean since goldfish get to be pretty big, are almost constantly eating and dirty the tank.  It is much easier to siphon out that poop without gravel in the tank.   If you want more of a show tank and do not mind the extra work, you can use gravel and plant it.  But be prepared  to replant and replace plants often.   As with any other fish, you should try to keep the aquarium as clean as possible with frequent, timely partial water changes.  As you siphon you should go along the bottom and take out the poop.  Without the gravel this is an easier job.   joet   Good luck.  Enjoy your goldfish. ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <megablasto2000@...> wrote: I have goldfish, but I notice some people on YouTube have no gravel in their aquariums. Is this good or bad? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55556	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media

Hello again Ken,   There might have been some confusion from looking at several different types of filter with regard to exposure to air. One type of filter that does have the media partially exposed as opposed to the sealed & pressurised canisters or the totally submersed internals is the sump filter [called wet/dry in the States I believe]. This is a very simple yet easy to maintain type of filter & one I  have been using for over 5 years. Look it up on YouTube, there are dozens of examples.   John<o)))< On 10 November 2013 13:02, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Ken,   Biological filter media do not need to be exposed to air, nor do they need to have bubbles going through it -- and this includes ceramic media -- and even in canister filters (as asked in one of your subsequent questions).  The purpose of having these media in a filter -- any filter -- is to have water flowing by them which will supply the nitrobacters with dissolved oxygen in a constantly renewed state.  "Renewed," because of the water flow continually flowing past these bacteria.  Nitrobacters thrive best in an oxygen-rich environment; they are aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) life forms (Monera), requiring oxygen and at the same time are also autotrophic (as opposed to heterotrophic) chemotrophs; their metabolism being able to synthesize their own food with oxidation of it at the same time.  By this, you can see that the cleaner would be the water, the more beneficial this flow would be in carrying the maximum amount of dissolved water at all times.  Exposing biological media to air in either form, just as pure atmospheric or as atmospheric bubbles, while continued to remain wet at all times (these bacteria still need to get their oxygen in an aqueous state), will ensure the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen in the water at any time but water at any given temperature can only hold a certain given amount of oxygen regardless of the height ("thickness," as in just a coating when emersed in air) of the water in the filter.  For this reason, among others, the aquarium water should be attempted to be kept as pristine as possible to be able to dissolved its maximum oxygen load.   To put it a simpler way, nitrobacters have evolved over the eons in a completely submersed state.  Excepting where water flows as a break -- over rocks in a river or over a waterfall -- nature does not supply these bacteria with air bubbles, yet they've thrived for millions of years.  They don't NEED to be exposed to air to be able to obtain their optimum amount of dissolved oxygen.  With the possibility of water quality going down in the aquarium environment, exposure to air (while still being kept wet) will help ensure the most dissolved oxygen but the quality of the water still dictates how much oxygen it's able to hold and to be available to these bacteria.   Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 3:27:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55557	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/10/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media

Hi John and Ken,   Yes, there's the "wet/dry" sump filter -- using bio-balls and other type media.  There's also the HOB "wet/dry" bio-wheel filter.  With the original question being if the bio-media need to have exposure to air, the answer is still no, although these types of filters do of course work.  I don't believe their method is any more effective -- but the sump filter allows for much more bio-filtration area, enabling it to contain a larger amount of media, giving it that advantage.  In effect, any bio-media -- as in a canister filter, including ceramic media, may have air passing through it, but it's not needed.    Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 9:15:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hello again Ken,   There might have been some confusion from looking at several different types of filter with regard to exposure to air. One type of filter that does have the media partially exposed as opposed to the sealed & pressurised canisters or the totally submersed internals is the sump filter [called wet/dry in the States I believe]. This is a very simple yet easy to maintain type of filter & one I  have been using for over 5 years. Look it up on YouTube, there are dozens of examples.   John<o)))< On 10 November 2013 13:02, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Ken,   Biological filter media do not need to be exposed to air, nor do they need to have bubbles going through it -- and this includes ceramic media -- and even in canister filters (as asked in one of your subsequent questions).  The purpose of having these media in a filter -- any filter -- is to have water flowing by them which will supply the nitrobacters with dissolved oxygen in a constantly renewed state.  "Renewed," because of the water flow continually flowing past these bacteria.  Nitrobacters thrive best in an oxygen-rich environment; they are aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) life forms (Monera), requiring oxygen and at the same time are also autotrophic (as opposed to heterotrophic) chemotrophs; their metabolism being able to synthesize their own food with oxidation of it at the same time.  By this, you can see that the cleaner would be the water, the more beneficial this flow would be in carrying the maximum amount of dissolved water at all times.  Exposing biological media to air in either form, just as pure atmospheric or as atmospheric bubbles, while continued to remain wet at all times (these bacteria still need to get their oxygen in an aqueous state), will ensure the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen in the water at any time but water at any given temperature can only hold a certain given amount of oxygen regardless of the height ("thickness," as in just a coating when emersed in air) of the water in the filter.  For this reason, among others, the aquarium water should be attempted to be kept as pristine as possible to be able to dissolved its maximum oxygen load.   To put it a simpler way, nitrobacters have evolved over the eons in a completely submersed state.  Excepting where water flows as a break -- over rocks in a river or over a waterfall -- nature does not supply these bacteria with air bubbles, yet they've thrived for millions of years.  They don't NEED to be exposed to air to be able to obtain their optimum amount of dissolved oxygen.  With the possibility of water quality going down in the aquarium environment, exposure to air (while still being kept wet) will help ensure the most dissolved oxygen but the quality of the water still dictates how much oxygen it's able to hold and to be available to these bacteria.   Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 3:27:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55558	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/11/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media

H i Ray,   I should have added in my reply to Ken that the aeration in the wet/dry is not needed but merely happens by default. I purposely didn't mention HOB filters because I know nothing about them!   John<o)))< On 11 November 2013 02:59, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John and Ken,   Yes, there's the "wet/dry" sump filter -- using bio-balls and other type media.  There's also the HOB "wet/dry" bio-wheel filter.  With the original question being if the bio-media need to have exposure to air, the answer is still no, although these types of filters do of course work.  I don't believe their method is any more effective -- but the sump filter allows for much more bio-filtration area, enabling it to contain a larger amount of media, giving it that advantage.  In effect, any bio-media -- as in a canister filter, including ceramic media, may have air passing through it, but it's not needed.    Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 9:15:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hello again Ken,   There might have been some confusion from looking at several different types of filter with regard to exposure to air. One type of filter that does have the media partially exposed as opposed to the sealed & pressurised canisters or the totally submersed internals is the sump filter [called wet/dry in the States I believe]. This is a very simple yet easy to maintain type of filter & one I  have been using for over 5 years. Look it up on YouTube, there are dozens of examples.   John<o)))< On 10 November 2013 13:02, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Ken,   Biological filter media do not need to be exposed to air, nor do they need to have bubbles going through it -- and this includes ceramic media -- and even in canister filters (as asked in one of your subsequent questions).  The purpose of having these media in a filter -- any filter -- is to have water flowing by them which will supply the nitrobacters with dissolved oxygen in a constantly renewed state.  "Renewed," because of the water flow continually flowing past these bacteria.  Nitrobacters thrive best in an oxygen-rich environment; they are aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) life forms (Monera), requiring oxygen and at the same time are also autotrophic (as opposed to heterotrophic) chemotrophs; their metabolism being able to synthesize their own food with oxidation of it at the same time.  By this, you can see that the cleaner would be the water, the more beneficial this flow would be in carrying the maximum amount of dissolved water at all times.  Exposing biological media to air in either form, just as pure atmospheric or as atmospheric bubbles, while continued to remain wet at all times (these bacteria still need to get their oxygen in an aqueous state), will ensure the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen in the water at any time but water at any given temperature can only hold a certain given amount of oxygen regardless of the height ("thickness," as in just a coating when emersed in air) of the water in the filter.  For this reason, among others, the aquarium water should be attempted to be kept as pristine as possible to be able to dissolved its maximum oxygen load.   To put it a simpler way, nitrobacters have evolved over the eons in a completely submersed state.  Excepting where water flows as a break -- over rocks in a river or over a waterfall -- nature does not supply these bacteria with air bubbles, yet they've thrived for millions of years.  They don't NEED to be exposed to air to be able to obtain their optimum amount of dissolved oxygen.  With the possibility of water quality going down in the aquarium environment, exposure to air (while still being kept wet) will help ensure the most dissolved oxygen but the quality of the water still dictates how much oxygen it's able to hold and to be available to these bacteria.   Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 3:27:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55559	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/12/2013
Subject: Re: Question about ceramic media

Hi John,   Maybe to explain it better to Ken, it should be said that it's the wet/dry filter's method of having oxygen rich water passing by the nitrobacters populating their biomedia.  The media is not submersed at all, but is above the water level in its sump.  Water from the aquarium to be filtered is constantly pouring over the media in a thin sheet, keeping everything (media and nitrobacters) wet at all times, and the action of the falling film of water in contact with the air ensures to absorb the maximum amount of oxygen the water will hold -- depending again on its temperature and quality.  Bio-wheel HOB filters employ the same principle, with both filters not needing as large of a flow of water as do submersed media filters.    Ray     In a message dated 11/11/2013 6:42:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   H i Ray,   I should have added in my reply to Ken that the aeration in the wet/dry is not needed but merely happens by default. I purposely didn't mention HOB filters because I know nothing about them!   John<o)))< On 11 November 2013 02:59, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John and Ken,   Yes, there's the "wet/dry" sump filter -- using bio-balls and other type media.  There's also the HOB "wet/dry" bio-wheel filter.  With the original question being if the bio-media need to have exposure to air, the answer is still no, although these types of filters do of course work.  I don't believe their method is any more effective -- but the sump filter allows for much more bio-filtration area, enabling it to contain a larger amount of media, giving it that advantage.  In effect, any bio-media -- as in a canister filter, including ceramic media, may have air passing through it, but it's not needed.    Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 9:15:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hello again Ken,   There might have been some confusion from looking at several different types of filter with regard to exposure to air. One type of filter that does have the media partially exposed as opposed to the sealed & pressurised canisters or the totally submersed internals is the sump filter [called wet/dry in the States I believe]. This is a very simple yet easy to maintain type of filter & one I  have been using for over 5 years. Look it up on YouTube, there are dozens of examples.   John<o)))< On 10 November 2013 13:02, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Ken,   Biological filter media do not need to be exposed to air, nor do they need to have bubbles going through it -- and this includes ceramic media -- and even in canister filters (as asked in one of your subsequent questions).  The purpose of having these media in a filter -- any filter -- is to have water flowing by them which will supply the nitrobacters with dissolved oxygen in a constantly renewed state.  "Renewed," because of the water flow continually flowing past these bacteria.  Nitrobacters thrive best in an oxygen-rich environment; they are aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) life forms (Monera), requiring oxygen and at the same time are also autotrophic (as opposed to heterotrophic) chemotrophs; their metabolism being able to synthesize their own food with oxidation of it at the same time.  By this, you can see that the cleaner would be the water, the more beneficial this flow would be in carrying the maximum amount of dissolved water at all times.  Exposing biological media to air in either form, just as pure atmospheric or as atmospheric bubbles, while continued to remain wet at all times (these bacteria still need to get their oxygen in an aqueous state), will ensure the maximum amount of dissolved oxygen in the water at any time but water at any given temperature can only hold a certain given amount of oxygen regardless of the height ("thickness," as in just a coating when emersed in air) of the water in the filter.  For this reason, among others, the aquarium water should be attempted to be kept as pristine as possible to be able to dissolved its maximum oxygen load.   To put it a simpler way, nitrobacters have evolved over the eons in a completely submersed state.  Excepting where water flows as a break -- over rocks in a river or over a waterfall -- nature does not supply these bacteria with air bubbles, yet they've thrived for millions of years.  They don't NEED to be exposed to air to be able to obtain their optimum amount of dissolved oxygen.  With the possibility of water quality going down in the aquarium environment, exposure to air (while still being kept wet) will help ensure the most dissolved oxygen but the quality of the water still dictates how much oxygen it's able to hold and to be available to these bacteria.   Ray     In a message dated 11/10/2013 3:27:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megablasto2000@... writes:   Does ceramic media need to have air, like bubbles, passing through it?   Seems like there is some debate about whether the media should be completely submerged with no air passing through it, and some people saying that it is good to have it either exposed to air (but still wet), or have bubbles going through it.   -Ken

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55560	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55561	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Hi Ken,   Sorry to hear you are having these problems but I'm wondering if the aggressiveness you describe could simply be breeding activity? How big is the tank? How big is the aggressive fish & how big is the Ryukin? Does the aggressive fish do it all the time & is this aggression a constant chasing & butting of the Ryukin along the rear flanks as if trying to push it along?  If your Ryukin is small then there is a very real danger that some harm may come to him but the Common is not doing it out of aggression-he is very likely just happy to be with other fish after being quarantined as they are very social fish & don't do well alone. In an ideal situation you don't want to keep fancy round bodied Goldfish in the same tanks as the streamlined fish because this can often happen. The Common Goldfish is not being aggressive, just playful & boisterous but because they are more solidly built & a lot faster than the delicate fancy types they appear to be bullying. You will also probably find the regular Goldfish get to the food first which can cause problems for your fancy types. I have seen the odd tank where fancy & streamlined Goldfish happily co-exsist but they are generally huge tanks with few fish & the fancy examples are usually as big as softballs & just as boisterous as the regular Goldfish! If your tanks [or budget!] stretch that far I would suggest keeping the two Commons together & putting the Ryukin in a separate tank but if you do then he needs another fancy Goldfish as a buddy-they don't thrive so well alone.   John<o)))< On 13 November 2013 10:48, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55562	From: Amber	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55563	From: love_animals07	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Fish got ick!

Hello... Well, I have tried to sort this out on my own but I just can't seem to do it. I got a new fish (black ghost knife) two weeks ago. I put it in the quarantine tank which had a bala shark and a tiger barb already in it. The two had fish issues (one's fins were ripped the other had fin rot). They were just about healed but I wanted to be sure. I knew that the second I put my new fish in the quaarantine tank I would not be able to move the two fish back into the main tank until the quarantine period was over. Well, I got a bunch of new plants a week ago so I moved the fish out of the tank for a few minutes so I could put them in and get every situated without bothering them too much. The next day, the ick began to show itself. I think the problem was I stressed the fish out a lot during my planting... Well, I decided that the best choice of action was to move the bala and the barb into a seperate tank so I could use the salt method along with the heat. It seemed to work until yesterday, when the ick came back full force. The shark did not make it though the night. So, one fish down, two more left... The knife is now showing spots and I have no idea what to do for it. I'm considering putting it in my last 10 gallon tank and doing daily full water changes on it. I'm just afraid that it will stress the fish out too much. I figure if I can keep the ick from attaching to the fish maybe I can beat it. Anyway, besides that "briliant" idea, not really, I know, what else could I try? We can't get to the store until Friday and I'm afraid that would be too late... Here's what I have done so far: Moved the Bala shark and the tiger barb into a different 10 gallon tank (100% clean water. Not cycled.) Put the power filter in the new 10 gallon and the air stone. Put the heater in the new ten gallon. Measured out 4 table spoons of non-idonized salt. Mixed 2 TEA spoons of salt into the tank at regular intervals for 48 hours until the whole 4 table spoons was gone. I have done nothing so far with the knife. The water temperature in the new tank is 85 degrees and counting (I'm aiming for just a little higher....) Questions? Comments? Concerns? Suggestions? Please, I need help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55564	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55565	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!

Hello . . . err, . . I don't know who I'm sending this to (please sign your posts):   For starters, at what temperature did this Ick come back in full force?  A temp of 85 o will only serve to speed up the Ick's metabolism, having it reproduce much faster than at a lower temperature.  While ideally, the temperature should be at least 86 o, you should try for at least 87 o as many heaters (and thermometers) are inaccurate.  Heaters may not necessarily be at 86 if set on that and some thermometers could be at 84 o instead of 86 o even though they may show the higher temperature.        I don't know where you got the notion to use 4 Tablespoons of salt in 10 gallons.  That you added it slowly was a plus as it didn't stress the fish, but the usual rate for treating Ick is half that amount.  The amount you used was undoubtedly more helpful -- if the temperature had been higher -- but both factors need to be in place to address an Ick infestation.  DO NOT subject your Black Ghost Knifefish to this amount of salt as it's considered a "scaleless" fish and won't tolerate large chemical changes of its environment.   Your best bet is to get the temperature up to where it will be effective.  Above 86 o, Ick can no longer reproduce, and not being able to multiply it cannot come back in force.  That it did come back in full force indicates without much doubt that the temperature could not have been high enough.   Doing daily full water changes is not going to decimate the Ick.  Instead, heavy aeration will make it much more difficult for Ick to find a host.  The salt will promote a heavier slime coat, making it difficult for the Ick to get a "foothold" on the fishes' skin.     What brand of heater do you have, and what's the wattage?  It sounds like it's struggling to get higher than 85 o.  Since you "put the heater in the new 10 gallon tank" (with the Bala Shark and Tiger Barb), does this leave you without a heater for the Knife Fish?  Just out of curiosity, what's the temperature of this room?  It takes about 2 Watts per gallon to raise the water's temperature 5 degrees above the room temperature.  So, for your 10 gallon tank to be raised to a temperature of 86 o, if your room is at 70, you'd need at least a 75 Watt heater (which has the capacity to raise it to 90 o, from 70 o -- if it's a quality heater).  Anything less won't cut it, and . . . if your room is at 68 o, a 75 Watt heater would be only marginal in being able to maintain 86 degrees.  A poorer quality heater may not be able to maintain the temperature for it's wattage rating, either.  If it sounds like either of these may be part of your problem, turn the thermostat up in the room.     I could assume that with the shark now gone, that you should be able to put the Black Ghost Knife in the same 10 gallon tank with the Tiger Barb for treatment -- unless you know that is was the Barb that tore the Knife fish's fins, which is entirely possible (Tiger Barbs are notorious fin-rippers).  IF you put these two fish together, be sure to first remove at least half of that salt by making a 50% partial water change.    Ray     In a message dated 11/13/2013 4:24:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, love_animals07@... writes:   Hello... Well, I have tried to sort this out on my own but I just can't seem to do it. I got a new fish (black ghost knife) two weeks ago. I put it in the quarantine tank which had a bala shark and a tiger barb already in it. The two had fish issues (one's fins were ripped the other had fin rot). They were just about healed but I wanted to be sure. I knew that the second I put my new fish in the quaarantine tank I would not be able to move the two fish back into the main tank until the quarantine period was over. Well, I got a bunch of new plants a week ago so I moved the fish out of the tank for a few minutes so I could put them in and get every situated without bothering them too much. The next day, the ick began to show itself. I think the problem was I stressed the fish out a lot during my planting... Well, I decided that the best choice of action was to move the bala and the barb into a seperate tank so I could use the salt method along with the heat. It seemed to work until yesterday, when the ick came back full force. The shark did not make it though the night. So, one fish down, two more left... The knife is now showing spots and I have no idea what to do for it. I'm considering putting it in my last 10 gallon tank and doing daily full water changes on it. I'm just afraid that it will stress the fish out too much. I figure if I can keep the ick from attaching to the fish maybe I can beat it. Anyway, besides that "briliant" idea, not really, I know, what else could I try? We can't get to the store until Friday and I'm afraid that would be too late... Here's what I have done so far: Moved the Bala shark and the tiger barb into a different 10 gallon tank (100% clean water. Not cycled.) Put the power filter in the new 10 gallon and the air stone. Put the heater in the new ten gallon. Measured out 4 table spoons of non-idonized salt. Mixed 2 TEA spoons of salt into the tank at regular intervals for 48 hours until the whole 4 table spoons was gone. I have done nothing so far with the knife. The water temperature in the new tank is 85 degrees and counting (I'm aiming for just a little higher....) Questions? Comments? Concerns? Suggestions? Please, I need help!

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55566	From: Amber Larr	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!

I still have the knife and the tiger barb seperate because of the salt the barb is in. The Watt sticker on the heater has been rubbed away, so I am not sure about that.... the thermometer is reading 88 degrees right now. The heater seems to run on intervals. The higher you have it, the more often it comes on And the longer it stays on. But, I apologize for any mistakes I may have made as I am trying to write this from a phone and, smart phones are not really smart... hehe. ------------------------------ On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:06 PM PST sevenspringss1@... wrote: >Hello . . . err, . . I don't know who I'm sending this to (please sign >your posts): > >For starters, at what temperature did this Ick come back in full force? A >temp of 85 o will only serve to speed up the Ick's metabolism, having it >reproduce much faster than at a lower temperature. While ideally, the >temperature should be at least 86 o, you should try for at least 87 o as many >heaters (and thermometers) are inaccurate. Heaters may not necessarily be at >86 if set on that and some thermometers could be at 84 o instead of 86 o >even though they may show the higher temperature. > >I don't know where you got the notion to use 4 Tablespoons of salt in 10 >gallons. That you added it slowly was a plus as it didn't stress the fish, >but the usual rate for treating Ick is half that amount. The amount you >used was undoubtedly more helpful -- if the temperature had been higher -- >but both factors need to be in place to address an Ick infestation. DO NOT >subject your Black Ghost Knifefish to this amount of salt as it's considered >a "scaleless" fish and won't tolerate large chemical changes of its >environment. > >Your best bet is to get the temperature up to where it will be effective. >Above 86 o, Ick can no longer reproduce, and not being able to multiply it >cannot come back in force. That it did come back in full force indicates >without much doubt that the temperature could not have been high enough. > >Doing daily full water changes is not going to decimate the Ick. Instead, >heavy aeration will make it much more difficult for Ick to find a host. >The salt will promote a heavier slime coat, making it difficult for the Ick >to get a "foothold" on the fishes' skin. > >What brand of heater do you have, and what's the wattage? It sounds like >it's struggling to get higher than 85 o. Since you "put the heater in the >new 10 gallon tank" (with the Bala Shark and Tiger Barb), does this leave >you without a heater for the Knife Fish? Just out of curiosity, what's the >temperature of this room? It takes about 2 Watts per gallon to raise the >water's temperature 5 degrees above the room temperature. So, for your 10 >gallon tank to be raised to a temperature of 86 o, if your room is at 70, >you'd need at least a 75 Watt heater (which has the capacity to raise it to >90 o, from 70 o -- if it's a quality heater). Anything less won't cut it, >and . . . if your room is at 68 o, a 75 Watt heater would be only marginal >in being able to maintain 86 degrees. A poorer quality heater may not be >able to maintain the temperature for it's wattage rating, either. If it >sounds like either of these may be part of your problem, turn the thermostat up >in the room. > >I could assume that with the shark now gone, that you should be able to >put the Black Ghost Knife in the same 10 gallon tank with the Tiger Barb for >treatment -- unless you know that is was the Barb that tore the Knife >fish's fins, which is entirely possible (Tiger Barbs are notorious fin-rippers). > IF you put these two fish together, be sure to first remove at least half >of that salt by making a 50% partial water change. > >Ray > > > >In a message dated 11/13/2013 4:24:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >love_animals07@... writes: > > > > >Hello... Well, I have tried to sort this out on my own but I just can't >seem to do it. > >I got a new fish (black ghost knife) two weeks ago. I put it in the >quarantine tank which had a bala shark and a tiger barb already in it. The two >had fish issues (one's fins were ripped the other had fin rot). They were >just about healed but I wanted to be sure. I knew that the second I put my new >fish in the quaarantine tank I would not be able to move the two fish back >into the main tank until the quarantine period was over. > >Well, I got a bunch of new plants a week ago so I moved the fish out of >the tank for a few minutes so I could put them in and get every situated >without bothering them too much. The next day, the ick began to show itself. I >think the problem was I stressed the fish out a lot during my planting... > >Well, I decided that the best choice of action was to move the bala and >the barb into a seperate tank so I could use the salt method along with the >heat. It seemed to work until yesterday, when the ick came back full force. >The shark did not make it though the night. > >So, one fish down, two more left... The knife is now showing spots and I >have no idea what to do for it. I'm considering putting it in my last 10 >gallon tank and doing daily full water changes on it. I'm just afraid that it >will stress the fish out too much. I figure if I can keep the ick from >attaching to the fish maybe I can beat it. > >Anyway, besides that "briliant" idea, not really, I know, what else could >I try? We can't get to the store until Friday and I'm afraid that would be >too late... > >Here's what I have done so far: >Moved the Bala shark and the tiger barb into a different 10 gallon tank >(100% clean water. Not cycled.) >Put the power filter in the new 10 gallon and the air stone. >Put the heater in the new ten gallon. >Measured out 4 table spoons of non-idonized salt. >Mixed 2 TEA spoons of salt into the tank at regular intervals for 48 hours >until the whole 4 table spoons was gone. > >I have done nothing so far with the knife. > >The water temperature in the new tank is 85 degrees and counting (I'm >aiming for just a little higher....) > >Questions? Comments? Concerns? Suggestions? Please, I need help! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55567	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/13/2013
Subject: Re: Fish got ick!

Okay, 88 degrees should be fine.  Sounds like it may just be enough wattage to get it to where it is, which is why it's coming on more often and staying on longer.  It's working to maintain that higher temperature, more than a higher wattage heater would -- but that's okay, as long as it can do the job and hold the temp where it is.  Keep an eye on it though, that it doesn't climb too much higher.  A larger wattage heater wouldn't stay on as long when it did come on as it wouldn't need to -- it would heat the water faster.  Do you have another heater to put with the Knife fish?  You're going to need one ASAP with the Knife fish having spots on it right now.  While you could put the Knife fish in this same 10 gallon tank, using the divider you improvised, you can't do this now with the temperature up at 88 o -- unless you drop the temperature -- but you'd need to also do that 50% PWC (partial water change) to reduce the salt content.    You're either going to have to treat the knife fish in the quarantine tank, hopefully with a heater you may have for it, or lower the temperature somewhat in the 10 gallon in preparation of putting the Knife fish in the 10 gallon (with a PWC).  Then you could bag the knife fish up in as large of a fish bag as you can get (using the water it's in, from the quarantine tank) and float it in the 10 gallon to increase the temp in the bag slowly.  Once the water in the Knife fish's bag is at the same temperature as the 10 gallon tank's water, you can release the Knife fish and raise the temperature again, back up to 88 o.  Ideally, you have a heater for the quarantine tank though.  But in any case, that Knife fish needs treating now.  You can't wait to treat this Black Ghost until after the Barb has been treated as that can take up to 10 days.    Ray     In a message dated 11/13/2013 10:34:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, love_animals07@... writes:   I still have the knife and the tiger barb seperate because of the salt the barb is in. The Watt sticker on the heater has been rubbed away, so I am not sure about that.... the thermometer is reading 88 degrees right now. The heater seems to run on intervals. The higher you have it, the more often it comes on And the longer it stays on. But, I apologize for any mistakes I may have made as I am trying to write this from a phone and, smart phones are not really smart... hehe. ------------------------------ On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:06 PM PST sevenspringss1@... wrote: >Hello . . . err, . . I don't know who I'm sending this to (please sign >your posts): > >For starters, at what temperature did this Ick come back in full force? A >temp of 85 o will only serve to speed up the Ick's metabolism, having it >reproduce much faster than at a lower temperature. While ideally, the >temperature should be at least 86 o, you should try for at least 87 o as many >heaters (and thermometers) are inaccurate. Heaters may not necessarily be at >86 if set on that and some thermometers could be at 84 o instead of 86 o >even though they may show the higher temperature. > >I don't know where you got the notion to use 4 Tablespoons of salt in 10 >gallons. That you added it slowly was a plus as it didn't stress the fish, >but the usual rate for treating Ick is half that amount. The amount you >used was undoubtedly more helpful -- if the temperature had been higher -- >but both factors need to be in place to address an Ick infestation. DO NOT >subject your Black Ghost Knifefish to this amount of salt as it's considered >a "scaleless" fish and won't tolerate large chemical changes of its >environment. > >Your best bet is to get the temperature up to where it will be effective. >Above 86 o, Ick can no longer reproduce, and not being able to multiply it >cannot come back in force. That it did come back in full force indicates >without much doubt that the temperature could not have been high enough. > >Doing daily full water changes is not going to decimate the Ick. Instead, >heavy aeration will make it much more difficult for Ick to find a host. >The salt will promote a heavier slime coat, making it difficult for the Ick >to get a "foothold" on the fishes' skin. > >What brand of heater do you have, and what's the wattage? It sounds like >it's struggling to get higher than 85 o. Since you "put the heater in the >new 10 gallon tank" (with the Bala Shark and Tiger Barb), does this leave >you without a heater for the Knife Fish? Just out of curiosity, what's the >temperature of this room? It takes about 2 Watts per gallon to raise the >water's temperature 5 degrees above the room temperature. So, for your 10 >gallon tank to be raised to a temperature of 86 o, if your room is at 70, >you'd need at least a 75 Watt heater (which has the capacity to raise it to >90 o, from 70 o -- if it's a quality heater). Anything less won't cut it, >and . . . if your room is at 68 o, a 75 Watt heater would be only marginal >in being able to maintain 86 degrees. A poorer quality heater may not be >able to maintain the temperature for it's wattage rating, either. If it >sounds like either of these may be part of your problem, turn the thermostat up >in the room. > >I could assume that with the shark now gone, that you should be able to >put the Black Ghost Knife in the same 10 gallon tank with the Tiger Barb for >treatment -- unless you know that is was the Barb that tore the Knife >fish's fins, which is entirely possible (Tiger Barbs are notorious fin-rippers). > IF you put these two fish together, be sure to first remove at least half >of that salt by making a 50% partial water change. > >Ray > > > >In a message dated 11/13/2013 4:24:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >love_animals07@... writes: > > > > >Hello... Well, I have tried to sort this out on my own but I just can't >seem to do it. > >I got a new fish (black ghost knife) two weeks ago. I put it in the >quarantine tank which had a bala shark and a tiger barb already in it. The two >had fish issues (one's fins were ripped the other had fin rot). They were >just about healed but I wanted to be sure. I knew that the second I put my new >fish in the quaarantine tank I would not be able to move the two fish back >into the main tank until the quarantine period was over. > >Well, I got a bunch of new plants a week ago so I moved the fish out of >the tank for a few minutes so I could put them in and get every situated >without bothering them too much. The next day, the ick began to show itself. I >think the problem was I stressed the fish out a lot during my planting... > >Well, I decided that the best choice of action was to move the bala and >the barb into a seperate tank so I could use the salt method along with the >heat. It seemed to work until yesterday, when the ick came back full force. >The shark did not make it though the night. > >So, one fish down, two more left... The knife is now showing spots and I >have no idea what to do for it. I'm considering putting it in my last 10 >gallon tank and doing daily full water changes on it. I'm just afraid that it >will stress the fish out too much. I figure if I can keep the ick from >attaching to the fish maybe I can beat it. > >Anyway, besides that "briliant" idea, not really, I know, what else could >I try? We can't get to the store until Friday and I'm afraid that would be >too late... > >Here's what I have done so far: >Moved the Bala shark and the tiger barb into a different 10 gallon tank >(100% clean water. Not cycled.) >Put the power filter in the new 10 gallon and the air stone. >Put the heater in the new ten gallon. >Measured out 4 table spoons of non-idonized salt. >Mixed 2 TEA spoons of salt into the tank at regular intervals for 48 hours >until the whole 4 table spoons was gone. > >I have done nothing so far with the knife. > >The water temperature in the new tank is 85 degrees and counting (I'm >aiming for just a little higher....) > >Questions? Comments? Concerns? Suggestions? Please, I need help! > >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55568	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Hello again Ken,   Thank you for supplying the info. It could be the reason Baby Goldie gets on well with King Fat because it is a female & I bet Stripes is a male. Sitting in a 3.5 gallon tank for some time will have made him pretty restless so he is going to appear to be boisterous when in fact he is probably just happy to be let of the leash as it were. Does the cookie tray divider work ok? if so then that might be the temporary solution until you get the 50 gallon up & running-even then I would be cautious about keeping fancy & streamlined types together. Saying that I do know someone who recently added 2 small Common Goldfish to a 50 gallon tank which already housed 3 fancy Goldfish & so far there has been no issues but in the long run I think you might be best with King Fat & another fancy in one tank & your two Commons in the 50. Not ideal I know but these are big fish that need big tanks & big filtration to thrive. Just a suggestion.   John<o)))< On 13 November 2013 21:57, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55569	From: Amber	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Sadly they have already outgrown that 20 gallon tank too. They need to be in at least a 75 gallon tank right now at that size. Common's need a lot more room too, since they're usually a lot more active than the fancy goldfish. Eventually (if they keep growing and aren't already stunted) they would need a pond instead of a fish tank. The best thing you can do for them until you can get them into a much bigger tank (75 gallons or 100+ would be best), you should do very frequent and regular water changes, and filter cleaning. I would recommend every other day at least. This will help keep them healthier and happier. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the aggression was related to being kept in small tanks and they're happy to be in a bigger tank, and therefor more playful and boisterous with each other.  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:57:50 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55570	From: jett07002	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Ken, sounds to me that you have two females and one male that is in season and wants to have sex with the females.   The activities you describe all point in that direction in my opinion.   One other definite fact is you need a much larger tank than 20 gallons, and a solid divider is now reducing the capacity to about 10 gallons or less (for each side).   BTW, if the divider  you are using is solid, I would also strongly suggest you put some form or filter on both sides.  A solid divider is not going to allow for the water to flow on both sides.   Good luck. joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Sadly they have already outgrown that 20 gallon tank too. They need to be in at least a 75 gallon tank right now at that size. Common's need a lot more room too, since they're usually a lot more active than the fancy goldfish. Eventually (if they keep growing and aren't already stunted) they would need a pond instead of a fish tank. The best thing you can do for them until you can get them into a much bigger tank (75 gallons or 100+ would be best), you should do very frequent and regular water changes, and filter cleaning. I would recommend every other day at least. This will help keep them healthier and happier. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the aggression was related to being kept in small tanks and they're happy to be in a bigger tank, and therefor more playful and boisterous with each other.  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:57:50 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55571	From: Lorraine Murphy	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: undergravel filter

I know not everyone is a fan of undergravel filters, especially since I can’t even find the 1” tubes in my local stores.  But I like them – they worked for me for years.  I’m getting back into the hobby and I’m going through my assorted collection of equipment.  I’m setting up a 60 gallon fresh water tank and would like opinions on the current opinion of their usefulness.  I will also be running two outside filters.    Besides their usefulness in general, I remember that it wasn’t a good idea to put any large décor on top of them as it inhibited the aerobic activity.  I have some undergravel filters of various sizes and I’m considering using them in the 60.  They would not cover the entire base, just partially.  Does the “dead” area in between the filters effect the aerobic function?   Thank you for any considerations,   Laurie Murphy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55572	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: undergravel filter

Hi Lorraine,        My concenr with undergravel filters is that the tank needs to be broken down to clean them. So, they have a tendency to be used for a while, uncleaned. I like live plants and they seem to do better without an undergravel filter. Also deadly gases can build up and be released when the filter is disturbed. For me, life is simpler with just weekly water changes to contend with. I like the HOB filters. I can add peat or whatever right into the chamber. Also I have been keeping fish for over 50 years without an air pump. The HOB filters create all the surface agitation I need. Harry On Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:23 PM, Lorraine Murphy <trinityfarms@...> wrote:   I know not everyone is a fan of undergravel filters, especially since I can’t even find the 1” tubes in my local stores.  But I like them – they worked for me for years.  I’m getting back into the hobby and I’m going through my assorted collection of equipment.  I’m setting up a 60 gallon fresh water tank and would like opinions on the current opinion of their usefulness.  I will also be running two outside filters.    Besides their usefulness in general, I remember that it wasn’t a good idea to put any large décor on top of them as it inhibited the aerobic activity.  I have some undergravel filters of various sizes and I’m considering using them in the 60.  They would not cover the entire base, just partially.  Does the “dead” area in between the filters effect the aerobic function?   Thank you for any considerations,   Laurie Murphy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55573	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: undergravel filter

Hi Laurie,   Getting right to the point of your question at the end of your message, any area outside of the area used by the undergravel filter plates has no effect, good or bad, on the aerobic action of the filter.  Almost all aerobic activity will occur directly above the filter plates, with a very small portion extending just beyond the extremities of the plates' dimensions.  The "dead" area between any two filter plates, and the dead area towards the outside of any filter plate just has no aerobic action at all.    Ray     In a message dated 11/14/2013 10:23:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, trinityfarms@... writes:   I know not everyone is a fan of undergravel filters, especially since I can’t even find the 1” tubes in my local stores.  But I like them – they worked for me for years.  I’m getting back into the hobby and I’m going through my assorted collection of equipment.  I’m setting up a 60 gallon fresh water tank and would like opinions on the current opinion of their usefulness.  I will also be running two outside filters.  Besides their usefulness in general, I remember that it wasn’t a good idea to put any large décor on top of them as it inhibited the aerobic activity.  I have some undergravel filters of various sizes and I’m considering using them in the 60.  They would not cover the entire base, just partially.  Does the “dead” area in between the filters effect the aerobic function? Thank you for any considerations, Laurie Murphy

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55574	From: megablasto2000	Date: 11/14/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

OK, joet, thanks for that tip.  Guess it might be good to find out what sex these fish are.  I never bothered to figure that out.  Do commons try to have sex with fancys or other goldfish types? The divider I'm using is just a stainless steel grid for cooling cookies, not solid at all.  Stripes looks like he's in jail, and has two visitors on the other side of the grid.   I've been removing the divider throughout the day, for a few minutes at a time, to see if Stripes let's up a little bit. I'll be giving away or selling one of these fish next week so there will only be two, and after the new year, I will start working on making a 50 gallon. -Ken Bagwell ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Ken, sounds to me that you have two females and one male that is in season and wants to have sex with the females.   The activities you describe all point in that direction in my opinion.   One other definite fact is you need a much larger tank than 20 gallons, and a solid divider is now reducing the capacity to about 10 gallons or less (for each side).   BTW, if the divider  you are using is solid, I would also strongly suggest you put some form or filter on both sides.  A solid divider is not going to allow for the water to flow on both sides.   Good luck. joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Sadly they have already outgrown that 20 gallon tank too. They need to be in at least a 75 gallon tank right now at that size. Common's need a lot more room too, since they're usually a lot more active than the fancy goldfish. Eventually (if they keep growing and aren't already stunted) they would need a pond instead of a fish tank. The best thing you can do for them until you can get them into a much bigger tank (75 gallons or 100+ would be best), you should do very frequent and regular water changes, and filter cleaning. I would recommend every other day at least. This will help keep them healthier and happier. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the aggression was related to being kept in small tanks and they're happy to be in a bigger tank, and therefor more playful and boisterous with each other.  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:57:50 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55575	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Re: Quarantining aggressive goldfish...

Hi Ken,   A few generalisations to help you figure out what sex your fish are,I would add that these are only a guide because I have seen all of these attributes in both sexes of streamlined Goldfish. Males tend to be sleeker & symmetrical when viewed from above whereas females can be lop-sided or have bulges & tend to be shorter & more squat. Males will sometimes get breeding stars or tubercles around their eyes, on their gill plates & sometimes along the  front ray of their pectoral [front] fin although I have seen female fish wit a few of these from time to time. The spots look  like little pimples & are sometimes mistaken for Ich. The front ray on males pectoral fins is sometimes thicker then the rest of the rays on the fin. Sometimes on male fish the front ray of the pectoral fin will become swollen with testosterone looking like a cotton bud & can be white or pink-could also be covered in breeding stars.   John.<o)))< On 15 November 2013 06:08, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   OK, joet, thanks for that tip.  Guess it might be good to find out what sex these fish are.  I never bothered to figure that out.  Do commons try to have sex with fancys or other goldfish types? The divider I'm using is just a stainless steel grid for cooling cookies, not solid at all.  Stripes looks like he's in jail, and has two visitors on the other side of the grid.   I've been removing the divider throughout the day, for a few minutes at a time, to see if Stripes let's up a little bit. I'll be giving away or selling one of these fish next week so there will only be two, and after the new year, I will start working on making a 50 gallon. -Ken Bagwell ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <jett07002@...> wrote: Ken, sounds to me that you have two females and one male that is in season and wants to have sex with the females.   The activities you describe all point in that direction in my opinion.   One other definite fact is you need a much larger tank than 20 gallons, and a solid divider is now reducing the capacity to about 10 gallons or less (for each side).   BTW, if the divider  you are using is solid, I would also strongly suggest you put some form or filter on both sides.  A solid divider is not going to allow for the water to flow on both sides.   Good luck. joet ---In aquaticlife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Sadly they have already outgrown that 20 gallon tank too. They need to be in at least a 75 gallon tank right now at that size. Common's need a lot more room too, since they're usually a lot more active than the fancy goldfish. Eventually (if they keep growing and aren't already stunted) they would need a pond instead of a fish tank. The best thing you can do for them until you can get them into a much bigger tank (75 gallons or 100+ would be best), you should do very frequent and regular water changes, and filter cleaning. I would recommend every other day at least. This will help keep them healthier and happier. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the aggression was related to being kept in small tanks and they're happy to be in a bigger tank, and therefor more playful and boisterous with each other.  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 12:57:50 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Ryukin (3", name: King Fat) Smaller common (3", name: Baby Goldie) Larger common (4", name: Stripes)   About 3 months ago, they were all in a 5 gallon tank.  Stripes, the larger common, started to harrass King Fat, at the time.  It was pretty frequent, so we decided to quarantine him in his own 3.5 gallon tank until we got a larger one that they all could share.  I thought a larger tank later on would take care of the issue, at least for a while.  Well, we finally got around to getting a 20 gallon last night, which I know is still not large enough for larger fish, but I figured while they are still relatively small, it should be OK.  The 20 gallon is really just a stop gap measure until I am able to contruct the 50 gallon after the new year.   Well, after I tranferred them to the new tank last night, they were ok for about an hour or so.  I guess they were familiarizing themselves with the new surroundings.  Oddly, though, they seemed to like to hang out mostly on one end of the tank all together, rather than swim around the whole thing.  Anyway, after an hour, Stripes, the larger common, started harrassing King Fat again with head butting and chasing.  In fact, he even has bothered Baby Goldie a few times, too, which I didn't see before when they used to be all together.  So, I used a cookie cooling tray to split the tank in half for the time being to isolate Stripes from the other two until I figure out what to do.   My plan was to sell or give away Baby Goldie, because I only want to keep Stripes and King Fat.  But now I'm not so sure.  King Fat and Baby Goldie get along pretty well, but I'm not sure if that's because Baby Goldie is only a 3" fish, or if it's just because he has a better personality with King Fat.   -Ken Bagwell   ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <arberglund@...> wrote: Not sure if I missed it in an earlier post... What size tank do you have the goldfish in?  Amber On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 01:48:51 -0900, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hi guys, Thanks for all the responses on the biomedia and air mix. I have a new question, as a result of tonight's activities at home. I've had two goldfish tanks. Tank One has a ryukin and a common that seem to get along pretty well.  Tank Two has another just slightly larger common that was aggressive a few months ago.  Well, tonight I put them all into a single larger tank, and the quarantined common is being aggressive again.  It kinda sucks too, because I like this fish, but he keeps bothering my ryukin.  And this ryukin is quite liked by the family, so I want him to not get too stressed and die from another fish bothering him all the time. How should I look at this?  Will the aggressive common stop bothering after a while, or will he just keep doing it till my ryukin might die? -Ken Bagwell -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55576	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Piranhas Eating Each Other

Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55577	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/15/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other

Hi Faisal,   That's a lot of 5" fish for a 90 gallon tank, especially considering the type.  They would do best in a tank twice that size, but as they can grow to at least 10", and at times even to 14", even a 200 gallon tank would be far too small for fifteen 10" Piranha.  Appears that it just might be that they feel too confined.  While a 90 gallon tank may seem large to you, it's still only 18" wide -- and 4" long doesn't allow for very much swimming room for a school of these large fish.  Much of the volume of these tanks is in the height.   I'd suggest that you may possibly not be feeding them enough, but only you know how much you're feeding them and how much they're capable of eating.  I don't need to tell you though, that they're voracious fish, generally with a good appetite.  If you've ever seen these fish in the wild, like I have, they're able to gorge themselves until their stomachs are literally bulging if they come upon a dead or dying animal in the water.  More feeding will require more water changes, but they'll require it.  You may also want to consider either a much larger tank and/or, rehoming half of them.  They'll need room to grow anyway.   Ray         In a message dated 11/15/2013 10:53:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55578	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 11/17/2013
Subject: Octopus Intelligence

So many times  when I see things like this ...I have to wonder just what more  don't know and what we could learn .   http://tinyurl. com/Octopus- wreaks-havoc http://tinyurl. com/6dyheg      I know a lot of  those who train and do research on animal intelligence and learning all using positive reinforcement and the stories are amazing I tried to find the third one about the octopus who when she gets bored she squirts the University researchers who got together and spent a fortune to  have a  huge beautiful tank with "toys " ( legos etc) .. I read that she especially  had a thing for one professor in  particular ... She would peek her eyes just barely  over the water .. take aim  and ...zap... she'd get him almost as soon as he entered the area. .... hysterical ...and  amazing how she truly could identify the poor professor from the others.  He was a sitting duck! Some years ago walking along one of the beaches in Malibu when I and  husband and two kids saw two people with their legs rolled up and bent over wading through the water ...then we saw the bucket and peeked in while they were with their backs to us busy looking bent over down and looking into the water ..there  inside was this  big beautiful octopus peeking out in the bucket half filled with water. I reached in and picked him up behind his beak /head and lifted him out and threw him back into the water. Then we kept on " innocently" walking past them ..and they kept on "fishing"... I would have loved seeing their faces when they  looked into the bucket!! Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55579	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/18/2013
Subject: Re: Octopus Intelligence

Good for you Angela & thanks for the interesting links.   John<o)))< On 18 November 2013 01:55, Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...> wrote:   So many times  when I see things like this ...I have to wonder just what more  don't know and what we could learn .   http://tinyurl.com/Octopus-wreaks-havoc http://tinyurl.com/6dyheg      I know a lot of  those who train and do research on animal intelligence and learning all using positive reinforcement and the stories are amazing I tried to find the third one about the octopus who when she gets bored she squirts the University researchers who got together and spent a fortune to  have a  huge beautiful tank with "toys " ( legos etc) .. I read that she especially  had a thing for one professor in  particular ... She would peek her eyes just barely  over the water .. take aim  and ...zap... she'd get him almost as soon as he entered the area. .... hysterical ...and  amazing how she truly could identify the poor professor from the others.  He was a sitting duck! Some years ago walking along one of the beaches in Malibu when I and  husband and two kids saw two people with their legs rolled up and bent over wading through the water ...then we saw the bucket and peeked in while they were with their backs to us busy looking bent over down and looking into the water ..there  inside was this  big beautiful octopus peeking out in the bucket half filled with water. I reached in and picked him up behind his beak /head and lifted him out and threw him back into the water. Then we kept on " innocently" walking past them ..and they kept on "fishing"... I would have loved seeing their faces when they  looked into the bucket!! Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55580	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other

What temperature are you keeping them at?   Ray   In a message dated 11/15/2013 10:53:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55581	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other

Hi Ray, Its around more or less 28 degree as heater is on because of Winter Sent from my iPhone On 20-Nov-2013, at 7:40 PM, sevenspringss1@... wrote: What temperature are you keeping them at?   Ray   In a message dated 11/15/2013 10:53:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55582	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other

Hi Faisal,   Okay, I realize it's Winter, but heaters are adjustable.  Piranhas don't need the temperature to be any more than 24 o C.  You should lower the temperature a bit, unless your heater can't be adjusted (which I've never seen before).  This much higher temperature is raising their metabolism, causing them to be much hungrier than normal.    Ray     In a message dated 11/20/2013 11:17:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Ray, Its around more or less 28 degree as heater is on because of Winter Sent from my iPhone On 20-Nov-2013, at 7:40 PM, sevenspringss1@... wrote: What temperature are you keeping them at?   Ray   In a message dated 11/15/2013 10:53:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55583	From: Faisal Ashraf	Date: 11/20/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas Eating Each Other

Hi Ray, Yea correct. I have set the temperature to 24 degree now Regards, Faisal  Sent from my iPhone On 20-Nov-2013, at 9:24 PM, sevenspringss1@... wrote: Hi Faisal,   Okay, I realize it's Winter, but heaters are adjustable.  Piranhas don't need the temperature to be any more than 24 o C.  You should lower the temperature a bit, unless your heater can't be adjusted (which I've never seen before).  This much higher temperature is raising their metabolism, causing them to be much hungrier than normal.    Ray     In a message dated 11/20/2013 11:17:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Ray, Its around more or less 28 degree as heater is on because of Winter Sent from my iPhone On 20-Nov-2013, at 7:40 PM, sevenspringss1@... wrote: What temperature are you keeping them at?   Ray   In a message dated 11/15/2013 10:53:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, faisal.ashhraf@... writes:   Hi Fellow, I am quite upset these days. My Red Belly Piranhas are eating each other. From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others.  I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55584	From: Angela Cancilla Herschel	Date: 11/21/2013
Subject: Piranhas eating others

I want to learn and work with all kinds of wildlife and exotics and I am wondering how this organ only diet can be balanced ? Where are thevother nutrients going to be coming from ..is it supplements? >From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others. I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55585	From: Sivakumar Viswanathan	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Piranhas eating others

I have heard that Piranhas get triggered into feeding frenzy, the moment one of them start to eat, the splashing and sudden activities..... I have not kept them, but i guess, since the numbers are quite a few in the tank it could be a possibility. I have seen a large shoal to be absolutely peaceful till one of them starts to eat something in some videos. Also, they could be given other live feeds, feeder fishes and so on... Regards Siva From: Angela Cancilla Herschel <angelasfeathers@...> To: AquaticLife <AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, 22 November 2013 5:51 AM Subject: [AquaticLife] Piranhas eating others   I want to learn and work with all kinds of wildlife and exotics and I am wondering how this organ only diet can be balanced ? Where are thevother nutrients going to be coming from ..is it supplements? >From last 2 months 3 of them is died and eaten by others. I always feed them on time with Chicken Liver and Beef Heart. Aquarium size is 90 Gallon and out of 18 Red belly, now I have only 15 :(. Size of Red belly is around 5 inches. What could be the cause of it. Please assist me to avoid this. BR//Faisal Ciao, Angela Cancilla Herschel in SoCal Being kind is more important ...than being important. Any good animal trainer knows the science of positive reinforcement ...includes people too. Wildlife warrior volunteer at; California Wildlife Center www.cawildlife.org Sent from my iPhone

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55586	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Filter Media Question

Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55587	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55588	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))<   On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55589	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/22/2013
Subject: Fw: Recent breeding.

On Friday, November 22, 2013 11:48 PM, Harry Perry <harryfisherman@...> wrote: These are a few of the offspring from the breeding pictured on our home page. The male was red the female blue. Look at the tail shape of the fish on the left. It would appear it has reverted back to a round tail. It is a male. http://s306.photobucket.com/user/harryfisherman/media-full//1385181476_zpsdd7e6c18.jpg.htmlI'll try to get better photos.. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55590	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/23/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55591	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55592	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/24/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55593	From: adonaikam	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Ants in tank/pump

Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55594	From: jett07002	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Where is this tank located?  If it's in your house or apartment, you my have a much bigger problem than the ants in your tank.  See if you can find a source.   Also, does this tank have water?  In other words, is the tank for fish as opposed to keeping a lizard?  They may not be ants, they may be termites.  Many people cannot tell the difference.   In any case, ants or termites, you should have this checked out.  Any chance that they may be in your walls I strongly advise you to get professional help.   joet ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <adonaikam@...> wrote: Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55595	From: Just Micky	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55596	From: adonaikam	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55597	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55598	From: Jasmine	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Hi John Didn't realise that you could feed the fish ant's eggs. I have read that fish died after eating 'fire ants' but my ants are not fire ants.  These are tiny little things.  Years ago, I found ants in the tubing and motor of a coffee perculator I had.  I couldn't remove them and ants kept floating every so often in the hot water so I ended up throwing the whole thing out. I still can't see any ants at the moment so fingers crossed that they don't come back. Have a great day. Jasmine On Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:29 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote:   Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55599	From: Harry Perry	Date: 11/27/2013
Subject: Thanksgiving.

Wishing a happy and healthy Thanksgiving to all. Harry

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55600	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Hi Jasmine,   Seems like this food is still available: http://www.123aquatics.co.uk/products/aquarium/fish-food/supa-large-ant-eggs-1874.aspx I wonder if anyone on the group can comment or uses ant's eggs as food? Would it be a suitable addition to a Goldfish diet for instance?   John<o)))< On 28 November 2013 00:41, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi John Didn't realise that you could feed the fish ant's eggs. I have read that fish died after eating 'fire ants' but my ants are not fire ants.  These are tiny little things.  Years ago, I found ants in the tubing and motor of a coffee perculator I had.  I couldn't remove them and ants kept floating every so often in the hot water so I ended up throwing the whole thing out. I still can't see any ants at the moment so fingers crossed that they don't come back. Have a great day. Jasmine On Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:29 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote:   Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55601	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

John,   I remember ant eggs being sold as a turtle food many years ago, but never as a fish food.  Still, I see no reason why this couldn't be used as yet another variety in a fish's diet.  As ant eggs are 100% animal protein, and as Goldfish are omnivores  (and not carnivores), I would only feed it occasionally and sparingly as part of their more rounded diet.  Carp in the wild feed on other fishes' eggs and will also eat earthworms and nightcrawlers when they find them, so while these foods are higher in protein they would not be adverse to these fish's diet.  Goldfish are opportunists and high protein foods on occasion would not be detrimental to their digestive system when fed at normal aquarium temperatures when they can digest them more easily.  The trick is to get them to know that this is a food, and that's done by mixing a little in with their regular foods to give them the idea to try it, not as a separate food.  They should never be fed to pond fish until the temperature reaches the mid-60's (F).    Ray     In a message dated 11/28/2013 6:11:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Jasmine,   Seems like this food is still available: http://www.123aquatics.co.uk/products/aquarium/fish-food/supa-large-ant-eggs-1874.aspx I wonder if anyone on the group can comment or uses ant's eggs as food? Would it be a suitable addition to a Goldfish diet for instance?   John<o)))< On 28 November 2013 00:41, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi John Didn't realise that you could feed the fish ant's eggs. I have read that fish died after eating 'fire ants' but my ants are not fire ants.  These are tiny little things.  Years ago, I found ants in the tubing and motor of a coffee perculator I had.  I couldn't remove them and ants kept floating every so often in the hot water so I ended up throwing the whole thing out. I still can't see any ants at the moment so fingers crossed that they don't come back. Have a great day. Jasmine On Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:29 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote:   Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55602	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55603	From: Jasmine	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Very interesting John. I know when we catch / kill mosquitoes we tent to feed them to the gold fish in the outside pond. Oh - those little rascals were back last night (in low numbers).  We got rid of them again so hopefully we are winning the battle. On another note since I have mentioned our outside gold fish, we have a two tear pond to which we do have plants in it (which we need to get in and half) but was worried that the goldfish may not be getting enough oxygen because they are making bubbles.  The bubbles tend to happen when we are standing over them and watching them so I've put it down to them being excited and hoping for food.  Could it be that they are short of oxygen. I just added 5 photos (of the pond) though they haven't appeared in my folder (Jasmine). Regards Jasmine On Friday, 29 November 2013 3:35 AM, "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   John,   I remember ant eggs being sold as a turtle food many years ago, but never as a fish food.  Still, I see no reason why this couldn't be used as yet another variety in a fish's diet.  As ant eggs are 100% animal protein, and as Goldfish are omnivores  (and not carnivores), I would only feed it occasionally and sparingly as part of their more rounded diet.  Carp in the wild feed on other fishes' eggs and will also eat earthworms and nightcrawlers when they find them, so while these foods are higher in protein they would not be adverse to these fish's diet.  Goldfish are opportunists and high protein foods on occasion would not be detrimental to their digestive system when fed at normal aquarium temperatures when they can digest them more easily.  The trick is to get them to know that this is a food, and that's done by mixing a little in with their regular foods to give them the idea to try it, not as a separate food.  They should never be fed to pond fish until the temperature reaches the mid-60's (F).    Ray     In a message dated 11/28/2013 6:11:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Jasmine,   Seems like this food is still available: http://www.123aquatics.co.uk/products/aquarium/fish-food/supa-large-ant-eggs-1874.aspx I wonder if anyone on the group can comment or uses ant's eggs as food? Would it be a suitable addition to a Goldfish diet for instance?   John<o)))< On 28 November 2013 00:41, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi John Didn't realise that you could feed the fish ant's eggs. I have read that fish died after eating 'fire ants' but my ants are not fire ants.  These are tiny little things.  Years ago, I found ants in the tubing and motor of a coffee perculator I had.  I couldn't remove them and ants kept floating every so often in the hot water so I ended up throwing the whole thing out. I still can't see any ants at the moment so fingers crossed that they don't come back. Have a great day. Jasmine On Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:29 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote:   Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55604	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/28/2013
Subject: Re: Ants in tank/pump

Hi Jasmine,   I don't think your pond Goldfish are starved of oxygen-the bubbles are probably produced as a result of them coming up for food & gulping a bit of air into the bargain. I'll wait until the pictures appear before commenting further!   John<o)))< On 28 November 2013 22:27, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Very interesting John. I know when we catch / kill mosquitoes we tent to feed them to the gold fish in the outside pond. Oh - those little rascals were back last night (in low numbers).  We got rid of them again so hopefully we are winning the battle. On another note since I have mentioned our outside gold fish, we have a two tear pond to which we do have plants in it (which we need to get in and half) but was worried that the goldfish may not be getting enough oxygen because they are making bubbles.  The bubbles tend to happen when we are standing over them and watching them so I've put it down to them being excited and hoping for food.  Could it be that they are short of oxygen. I just added 5 photos (of the pond) though they haven't appeared in my folder (Jasmine). Regards Jasmine On Friday, 29 November 2013 3:35 AM, "sevenspringss1@..." <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   John,   I remember ant eggs being sold as a turtle food many years ago, but never as a fish food.  Still, I see no reason why this couldn't be used as yet another variety in a fish's diet.  As ant eggs are 100% animal protein, and as Goldfish are omnivores  (and not carnivores), I would only feed it occasionally and sparingly as part of their more rounded diet.  Carp in the wild feed on other fishes' eggs and will also eat earthworms and nightcrawlers when they find them, so while these foods are higher in protein they would not be adverse to these fish's diet.  Goldfish are opportunists and high protein foods on occasion would not be detrimental to their digestive system when fed at normal aquarium temperatures when they can digest them more easily.  The trick is to get them to know that this is a food, and that's done by mixing a little in with their regular foods to give them the idea to try it, not as a separate food.  They should never be fed to pond fish until the temperature reaches the mid-60's (F).    Ray     In a message dated 11/28/2013 6:11:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Jasmine,   Seems like this food is still available: http://www.123aquatics.co.uk/products/aquarium/fish-food/supa-large-ant-eggs-1874.aspx I wonder if anyone on the group can comment or uses ant's eggs as food? Would it be a suitable addition to a Goldfish diet for instance?   John<o)))< On 28 November 2013 00:41, Jasmine <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi John Didn't realise that you could feed the fish ant's eggs. I have read that fish died after eating 'fire ants' but my ants are not fire ants.  These are tiny little things.  Years ago, I found ants in the tubing and motor of a coffee perculator I had.  I couldn't remove them and ants kept floating every so often in the hot water so I ended up throwing the whole thing out. I still can't see any ants at the moment so fingers crossed that they don't come back. Have a great day. Jasmine On Thursday, 28 November 2013 11:29 AM, SIMMONDS JOHN <simmonds.john@...> wrote:   Hi Jasmine,   I'm glad to hear the ants are gone-at least temporarily,  your post earlier today is one for the most unusual aquarium problems I've heard of on the group. This talk of ants reminds me-when I was a kid ant's eggs in a small cardboard tube were about the only fish food we could buy. You can still buy ant's eggs as fish food but they seem to have fallen out of favor a little nowadays.  John<o)))< On 27 November 2013 21:45, <adonaikam@...> wrote:   Hi Joet and Micky Its a fish tank which houses fish located inside. They are definitely not termites and are little ants.   We have found the entry point into the house and stopped them from coming in but then found that they found a new way in. after we got rid of them the first time and found them again, my husband did find the queen and we thought we got rid of them but alast they were back with their eggs. We decided to vacuum them out several times last night.  So far so good.  We haven't seen any ants but we will keep monitoring the tank. Thank you all for your help and advice Regards Jasmine ---In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, <Too_fishy@...> wrote: Many species of ants build satellite nests.  We had ants build a nest inside a bedroom door.  A friend told us to plug the hole in the bottom of the door where they were going in and they would be gone; but they might move to another location.  We did and have not seen an ant in the house for years.   The queen in not in a satellite nest.  She is out side in the primary nest.  The workers carry eggs in where it is warm to hatch babies.  You need to search for their travel route and block it.  or mix Roach powder with vegetable oil, bacon grease or peanut butter to make a thick past. place it near the trail.  (Some ants will prefer sugar)  If they take it, they will take to the main nest and feed the queen.  This will put an end to the entire colony.   I hope this helps. Micky   From: adonaikam@... Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:34 AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] Ants in tank/pump   Hi We just found ants building a nest inside our tank.  They seem to have built a nest on top of the inlet motor and we thought we got rid of them.  Then we found them in the corner so we got rid of them.  We just found them in our power supply and building another nest in the corner inside the tank again. Anyone got any idea on how we can irradicate these little intruders.  I don't want to do it but its a job that needs to be done. Thanks Jasmine

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55605	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55606	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Ray,   Don't worry-I'm well used to keeping the media in water when I do cleaning anyway so it will all be in tubs. I have two filter socks, one fed by each outlet weir that take the large debris out of the water before it passes across the drip tray. I keep carbon 'sausages' in the bottom of the filter socks.   John<o)))< On 29 November 2013 11:46, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55607	From: Amber	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:46:53 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: I'm going to do a wet/dry filter box like this in the near future, I've watched several videos on DIY ones on youtube so far. Looks fairly easy to get setup. I'm guessing that the bio-filter media should be on the lower most level of the filtration? I have some shredded/curly plastic type bio-media, will this type work okay or should I get some ceramic rings/balls/etc? Amber   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<   -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55608	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Amber,   The shredded/curly plastic type of bio-media should work just fine for wet/dry bio-filtration.  If you have more room, you could add bio-balls to this.  If your plan is also to have some media to be submerged, then the ceramic rings would be the medium to get for a purpose other than wet/dry.   Ray   In a message dated 11/29/2013 6:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:46:53 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: I'm going to do a wet/dry filter box like this in the near future, I've watched several videos on DIY ones on youtube so far. Looks fairly easy to get setup. I'm guessing that the bio-filter media should be on the lower most level of the filtration? I have some shredded/curly plastic type bio-media, will this type work okay or should I get some ceramic rings/balls/etc? Amber   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<   -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55609	From: Amber	Date: 11/29/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:59:38 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Thanks Ray, I'll have to look at the video's again, but I think the bottom most layer is usually submerged, but you don't have to have it submerged either. Does it work better for bio filtration if it's submerged? Or was that the debate at the beginning? LOL. Amber   Hi Amber,   The shredded/curly plastic type of bio-media should work just fine for wet/dry bio-filtration.  If you have more room, you could add bio-balls to this.  If your plan is also to have some media to be submerged, then the ceramic rings would be the medium to get for a purpose other than wet/dry.   Ray   In a message dated 11/29/2013 6:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:46:53 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: I'm going to do a wet/dry filter box like this in the near future, I've watched several videos on DIY ones on youtube so far. Looks fairly easy to get setup. I'm guessing that the bio-filter media should be on the lower most level of the filtration? I have some shredded/curly plastic type bio-media, will this type work okay or should I get some ceramic rings/balls/etc? Amber   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<   -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55610	From: sevenspringss	Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi again Amber,   Porous filter media such as Cobalt Aquatic's ceramic rings, Eheim's sintered glass spheres and Azoo's bio-glass (natural silicate) bio-rings work better than other media as a submerged medium, because of them offering so much more surface area when considering their porous nature.  The principle of wet-dry bio-filtration (using bio-balls, and it would seem, your shredded-curly plastic type medium [if it's not porous]) is to have it exposed to the atmosphere while the aquarium's water is constantly keeping it just wet in passing over it.  It will work while submersed but this is not wet/dry filtration then.  Many hobbyists just use only bio-balls in their wet/dry sump with a portion of it always being submersed in whatever amount of water level is always being retained in the sump but that portion of this medium is not being put to full advantage in the submerged situation.  While still colonizing bacteria in this position, it's main purpose would be just as a base for the emersed bio-balls to be supported on.     Ray     In a message dated 11/30/2013 12:56:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:59:38 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Thanks Ray, I'll have to look at the video's again, but I think the bottom most layer is usually submerged, but you don't have to have it submerged either. Does it work better for bio filtration if it's submerged? Or was that the debate at the beginning? LOL. Amber   Hi Amber,   The shredded/curly plastic type of bio-media should work just fine for wet/dry bio-filtration.  If you have more room, you could add bio-balls to this.  If your plan is also to have some media to be submerged, then the ceramic rings would be the medium to get for a purpose other than wet/dry.   Ray   In a message dated 11/29/2013 6:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:46:53 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: I'm going to do a wet/dry filter box like this in the near future, I've watched several videos on DIY ones on youtube so far. Looks fairly easy to get setup. I'm guessing that the bio-filter media should be on the lower most level of the filtration? I have some shredded/curly plastic type bio-media, will this type work okay or should I get some ceramic rings/balls/etc? Amber   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<   -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55611	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 11/30/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Amber,   Your curly plastic media sounds like what we call flock & is used extensively in home-made pond filters. In conjunction with Japmat or other sponges it works great but I've only seen it in use in vast quantities.   John <o)))< On 30 November 2013 10:57, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi again Amber,   Porous filter media such as Cobalt Aquatic's ceramic rings, Eheim's sintered glass spheres and Azoo's bio-glass (natural silicate) bio-rings work better than other media as a submerged medium, because of them offering so much more surface area when considering their porous nature.  The principle of wet-dry bio-filtration (using bio-balls, and it would seem, your shredded-curly plastic type medium [if it's not porous]) is to have it exposed to the atmosphere while the aquarium's water is constantly keeping it just wet in passing over it.  It will work while submersed but this is not wet/dry filtration then.  Many hobbyists just use only bio-balls in their wet/dry sump with a portion of it always being submersed in whatever amount of water level is always being retained in the sump but that portion of this medium is not being put to full advantage in the submerged situation.  While still colonizing bacteria in this position, it's main purpose would be just as a base for the emersed bio-balls to be supported on.     Ray     In a message dated 11/30/2013 12:56:15 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:59:38 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: Thanks Ray, I'll have to look at the video's again, but I think the bottom most layer is usually submerged, but you don't have to have it submerged either. Does it work better for bio filtration if it's submerged? Or was that the debate at the beginning? LOL. Amber   Hi Amber,   The shredded/curly plastic type of bio-media should work just fine for wet/dry bio-filtration.  If you have more room, you could add bio-balls to this.  If your plan is also to have some media to be submerged, then the ceramic rings would be the medium to get for a purpose other than wet/dry.   Ray   In a message dated 11/29/2013 6:44:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, arberglund@... writes: On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:46:53 -0900, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote: I'm going to do a wet/dry filter box like this in the near future, I've watched several videos on DIY ones on youtube so far. Looks fairly easy to get setup. I'm guessing that the bio-filter media should be on the lower most level of the filtration? I have some shredded/curly plastic type bio-media, will this type work okay or should I get some ceramic rings/balls/etc? Amber   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<   -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55612	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: plumber's grease in canister filter

Hey all,   I have a new large homemade canister filter ready to assemble.  I made a silicone ring gasket for one end (a removable threaded end).  I'm thinking it would be good to have some lubrication on the gasket and/or the threads, and plumber's grease comes to mind.  Would plumber's grease be safe for the water traveling through this area of the filter?   Although I plan to use it sparingly, is there any reason to suspect that water contact with the plumber's grease would pose any contamination or chemical issue with the aquarium water?   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55613	From: Just Micky	Date: 12/2/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

Plumbers grease is food grade to 700 F.  I have been using it on all “O” rings for years.  It keeps them in place and makes things a lot easier to assemble.   Micky   From: megablasto2000@... Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 5:44 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [AquaticLife] plumber's grease in canister filter   Hey all,   I have a new large homemade canister filter ready to assemble.  I made a silicone ring gasket for one end (a removable threaded end).  I'm thinking it would be good to have some lubrication on the gasket and/or the threads, and plumber's grease comes to mind.  Would plumber's grease be safe for the water traveling through this area of the filter?   Although I plan to use it sparingly, is there any reason to suspect that water contact with the plumber's grease would pose any contamination or chemical issue with the aquarium water?   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55614	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

Hi Ken,   Eheim supply a small sachet of lube with some of their canister filters which I believe is a separately available spare if you are worried. My tank was custom built by an aquatic specialist company & they used white PTFE tape on much of the plumbing.   John<o)))< On 2 December 2013 23:44, <megablasto2000@...> wrote:   Hey all,   I have a new large homemade canister filter ready to assemble.  I made a silicone ring gasket for one end (a removable threaded end).  I'm thinking it would be good to have some lubrication on the gasket and/or the threads, and plumber's grease comes to mind.  Would plumber's grease be safe for the water traveling through this area of the filter?   Although I plan to use it sparingly, is there any reason to suspect that water contact with the plumber's grease would pose any contamination or chemical issue with the aquarium water?   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55615	From: john	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

No, use food grade grease, very little ----- Original Message ----- From: megablasto2000@... To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 6:44 PM Subject: [AquaticLife] plumber's grease in canister filter   Hey all,   I have a new large homemade canister filter ready to assemble.  I made a silicone ring gasket for one end (a removable threaded end).  I'm thinking it would be good to have some lubrication on the gasket and/or the threads, and plumber's grease comes to mind.  Would plumber's grease be safe for the water traveling through this area of the filter?   Although I plan to use it sparingly, is there any reason to suspect that water contact with the plumber's grease would pose any contamination or chemical issue with the aquarium water?   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55616	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

http://blackswanmfg.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=114:plumbers-grease&Itemid=65   This is the exact product I actually have (just pulled it out of the tool box).  I guess because of the additives and soaps, it would be wiser to look for something else.   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55617	From: Just Micky	Date: 12/3/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

Read that label again.  Plumbers use this on you kitchen faucet where it is exposed to the water you drink.  I have a different brand but it has been in my canister filers for fifteen years.  No problems yet.   Micky   From: megablasto2000@... Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2013 4:30 PM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] plumber's grease in canister filter   http://blackswanmfg.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=114:plumbers-grease&Itemid=65   This is the exact product I actually have (just pulled it out of the tool box).  I guess because of the additives and soaps, it would be wiser to look for something else.   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55618	From: megablasto2000	Date: 12/4/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

Hi Micky,   Thanks.  I think you are probably right.  The amount of grease on the gasket is probably too small to really affect the fish very much, but I'd still feel more confortable with something that has less or no chemicals in it.  In any case, I did manage to procure a small tube of silicone grease from a local fish store today made by an aquaria company.   -Ken Bagwell

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55619	From: ptimlin	Date: 12/4/2013
Subject: Re: plumber's grease in canister filter

Alternatives for "food grade" lubricants that may also be safe for canisters include Keg Lube which is mainly sold as a homebrewing (beer) supply for keg systems for the orings and fittings. And also Taylor Lube which is made for use with softserve ice cream machines. Keg Lube can be bought at local homebrew stores if you have one in the area. Both can be bought online from Amazon. A tiny bit goes a LONGGGGG way so one little container of Keg Lube or a small tube of Taylor Lube will probably be a lifetime supply.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55620	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/5/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi Ray,   I've had 3kg of ceramic hoops in the bottom of my wet/dry for a week now & today I did a media clean above the egg crate so I took the opportunity to set all the bio balls at the top so they are all out of the water sitting on the pan scrubbers. There is still several inches of free space at the top of my media compartment so I'm looking to get some more bio balls to fill it up-the local supplier where I got the ceramic hoops also stocks 4 sizes of bio balls which brings me to my next couple of questions. Why are there different sizes of bio balls? which size[s] would work best in my system? The sizes I can get are 11/16", 1", 1 5/16" & 1 5/8".   John<o)))< On 29 November 2013 11:46, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55621	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/5/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Hi John,   Different size bio-balls require different flow rates, with the largest size needing more flow to keep their entire surfaces wet.   Smaller bio-balls will effectively populate more bacteria as you can fit many more of them in the same space, affording the bacteria more surface area.  The larger the bio-balls, the more empty space is being taken up by their hollow insides, comparatively reducing the surface area from what smaller bio-balls would offer.      Ray     In a message dated 12/5/2013 1:48:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've had 3kg of ceramic hoops in the bottom of my wet/dry for a week now & today I did a media clean above the egg crate so I took the opportunity to set all the bio balls at the top so they are all out of the water sitting on the pan scrubbers. There is still several inches of free space at the top of my media compartment so I'm looking to get some more bio balls to fill it up-the local supplier where I got the ceramic hoops also stocks 4 sizes of bio balls which brings me to my next couple of questions. Why are there different sizes of bio balls? which size[s] would work best in my system? The sizes I can get are 11/16", 1", 1 5/16" & 1 5/8".   John<o)))< On 29 November 2013 11:46, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55622	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/6/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Media Question

Excellent-thank you very much Ray-that is exactly what I needed to know. I'll order a load of the smallest ones then.   John<o)))< On 5 December 2013 19:16, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Different size bio-balls require different flow rates, with the largest size needing more flow to keep their entire surfaces wet.   Smaller bio-balls will effectively populate more bacteria as you can fit many more of them in the same space, affording the bacteria more surface area.  The larger the bio-balls, the more empty space is being taken up by their hollow insides, comparatively reducing the surface area from what smaller bio-balls would offer.      Ray     In a message dated 12/5/2013 1:48:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've had 3kg of ceramic hoops in the bottom of my wet/dry for a week now & today I did a media clean above the egg crate so I took the opportunity to set all the bio balls at the top so they are all out of the water sitting on the pan scrubbers. There is still several inches of free space at the top of my media compartment so I'm looking to get some more bio balls to fill it up-the local supplier where I got the ceramic hoops also stocks 4 sizes of bio balls which brings me to my next couple of questions. Why are there different sizes of bio balls? which size[s] would work best in my system? The sizes I can get are 11/16", 1", 1 5/16" & 1 5/8".   John<o)))< On 29 November 2013 11:46, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Your sump/filter should do great with all that bio-media material,  Don't let the scrubbers and bio-balls dry off when you do this conversion, even if you have to temporarily dump them in a pail of tank water.  Do you have a separate, mechanical filter to remove the suspended particles?   Ray   In a message dated 11/28/2013 5:28:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,  Just an update on our conversation earlier in the week-I've now put 3kg of large ceramic hoops in the space beneath my egg crate & next week when I do a filter clean I'll be separating the pot scrubbers from the bio balls-putting the scrubbers immediately above the egg box, then putting in another egg crate above the scrubbers for the bio balls so the balls will all be completely out of the standing water. I'll post a photo when it's all in place-meantime I'm keeping a close eye on my readings for when the good bugs start to kick in. I've also got another 3kg of ceramic hoops in store, there's probably still room for another 2kg in the base of the filter but I want to monitor things gradually.   John<o)))< On 25 November 2013 01:22, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   While I don't know if your wet/dry filter box/sump's open space beneath the media is specifically designed to be clear of media, or even if this is a commercially available (or home-made) sump, I'd have to say that as long as placing a medium in the space under the egg box doesn't interfere with the water's flow to any adverse extent, I see no reason why it couldn't be used for extra bio-filtering.  I'd add that such wet/dry filters are not necessarily designed to use a submersed filter media but instead primarily to use wet/dry media, again there's no reason I can see why an additional medium couldn't be used if it doesn't restrict anything.   As for using the bio-balls submerged, you're defeating their purpose and not utilizing them to best advantage, despite the fact that nitrobacters will colonize them under water.  They would colonize more bacteria in the wet/dry situation they were made for.  Yes, add as many as you can of these extra bio-balls as long as they fit.   Ray     In a message dated 11/24/2013 5:49:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Thank you for your input-very useful & you've already given me plenty to think about, in fact I wonder if my whole problem of high NO3 has been due to my not having the ideal type of media? What I am thinking is to get some flat draining board trays that are the same height as the water level above the egg box-approx 4" & fill them with the porous media-then leave a layer of pot scrubbers immediately above the water line & sitting on top of them the bio balls. I even found some more bio balls I'd forgotten about in a box so I may as well throw them in too as there is some space at the top-how does that sound? One question-I currently have a space under the egg box, is it ok to fill that with media? I have always just kept everything above it, keeping it open for the water flow-is keeping it empty wasted space? To clear things up for you-yes my bio balls & pot scrubbers are all thrown in together at random at the moment above & below the water line. There's a picture of my filter in my photo album called John's Fish here: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AquaticLife/photos/albums/2001173832/lightbox/1400469611 so you can see exactly what we're talking about.   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 12:15, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   It all depends on what you want to achieve, and what you expect of the improvised medium you're using.  While most any surface (including pan scrubbers) offered to grow nitrifying bacteria on -- either completely submersed or as 'wet & dry,' --  will grow those bacteria, a much more efficient submersed bio-medium would be one that's more porous.  These pan scrubbers may have also worked fairly well in your canister filters, but again, a porous medium designed for submersed conditions would have worked so much better as there's so much more surface area available in (and literally within) bio-media such as ceramic rings, sintered glass spheres and especially in bio-glass rings (actually a porous natural silicate).  Any non-porous bio-media is more efficient as used with the wet/dry method.    You may want to consider raising the egg box supports, as you asked about, and then add one of the media to the submersed part of the sump, which I suggested were best designed for submerged filtration.  If these porous media are not an option for you at this time and you don't prefer to raise the egg box supports, I believe that having the pot scrubbers all at the bottom (rather than the bio-balls all at the bottom) would give you the best results only because this allows for all of the bio-balls taking advantage of the wet/dry conditions.  With the pot scrubbers taking up at least 2/3 of the total filter area, there would still be a portion of them above the water line using the wet/dry method and all of the bio-balls would be allowed to do their thing.    One thing I'm not quite clear on, but which I'm guessing to be so, is whether this "mixture" of nylon pot scrubbers and bio-balls is a mixture as being used together, one media over the other (as two separate strata or tiers), or as a complete mixture of both media with each other -- and I'm guessing you mean a completely integrated mixture.  BTW, you may detect that I feel bio-balls are even more efficient than the pot scrubbers for wet/dry filtration < g >.   Ray     In a message dated 11/22/2013 8:32:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   Will the filter media subjected to the wet/dry process be working more efficiently than the media below the water line then? It would be quite easy to raise the egg box supports so that all the media was above water level because there is room at the top of the chamber. I had the whole tank custom built & the wet/dry was made that way because I already had previous success in using pan scrubbers in small canister filters which are completely submerged so I assumed a mixture of the two would be fine. I'm always very happy to hear any suggestions to improve the conditions for my fish. Yes, you are quite correct-my tank is 100 UK gallons making it 120 US!   John<o)))< On 23 November 2013 01:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Since your filter is meant to be working on the wet/dry principle, regardless of which media you have submersed, it wouldn't seem as though it's going to be as efficient.  If you're keeping the water level in the sump half way up the media, the submerged media is not being subjected to the wet/dry process.   On an unrelated (but curious) question, may I presume your 100 gallon tank is 100 British gallons (120 U.S. gallons)?   Ray       In a message dated 11/22/2013 7:16:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Everyone,   As some of you may know I keep large streamlined Goldfish in a 100 gallon tank, my filter is a wet/dry sump approx 20 gallons. The media I use is a mixture of nylon pot scrubbers [around 170] about 200 bio balls of various sizes from marble to golf ball sized. There are all distributed at random through the main drip tray chamber with the pot scrubbers taking up a little more than 2/3 of this total filter area. The water in the media is a little under half way up the media. When I clean the media I simply take everything out, rinse it through in old tank water & throw it all back on top of the egg box at random again. My question is, would I have better filtration performance to have all the pot scrubbers at the bottom or all the bio balls at the bottom or doesn't it matter?   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55623	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/7/2013
Subject: Coralife T5 HO Lights

Hi, All.... If any of you are in the San Jose, CA area and are interested I have various size CoraLife T5 HO fixtures to sell for any reasonable offer. The sizes: 48" Quad with LED Lunar Lights, a 30" Quad with LED Lunar Lights and a 48" Dual, 30" Dual, 24" Dual. As soon as the rest of my new fixtures come in I will also have a 48" Quad (no lunar lights), not made by Coralife. Also have replacement bulbs: actinic, 6700K and 10K that go with them. Also have 2 tanks, a 20L and a 39H....cheap to a good home, with a stand that will accompany one of them thrown in. The stand is sold wood and fits both tanks. If interested, please contact me with reasonable offer and I will send pics and/or we can meet. Thanks for your interest! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55624	From: Tim OMalley	Date: 12/8/2013
Subject: Re: Coralife T5 HO Lights

I MIGHT BE INTERESTED IF U STILL HAVE THEM LET ME KNOW THANKS TIM On Saturday, December 7, 2013 7:10 AM, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote:   Hi, All.... If any of you are in the San Jose, CA area and are interested I have various size CoraLife T5 HO fixtures to sell for any reasonable offer. The sizes: 48" Quad with LED Lunar Lights, a 30" Quad with LED Lunar Lights and a 48" Dual, 30" Dual, 24" Dual. As soon as the rest of my new fixtures come in I will also have a 48" Quad (no lunar lights), not made by Coralife. Also have replacement bulbs: actinic, 6700K and 10K that go with them. Also have 2 tanks, a 20L and a 39H....cheap to a good home, with a stand that will accompany one of them thrown in. The stand is sold wood and fits both tanks. If interested, please contact me with reasonable offer and I will send pics and/or we can meet. Thanks for your interest! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55625	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/9/2013
Subject: Re: Coralife T5 HO Lights

Sorry, the lights are sold :-) Thanks for your interest! Cheers, Clare --- In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com, Tim OMalley <timsexotichabitats@...> wrote: > > I MIGHT BE INTERESTED IF U STILL HAVE THEM LET ME KNOW > THANKS TIM > > > > On Saturday, December 7, 2013 7:10 AM, cobra427lady <clare@...> wrote: > >   > Hi, All.... > > If any of you are in the San Jose, CA area and are interested I have various size CoraLife T5 HO fixtures to sell for any reasonable offer. > > The sizes: 48" Quad with LED Lunar Lights, a 30" Quad with LED Lunar Lights and a 48" Dual, 30" Dual, 24" Dual. As soon as the rest of my new fixtures come in I will also have a 48" Quad (no lunar lights), not made by Coralife. Also have replacement bulbs: actinic, 6700K and 10K that go with them. > > Also have 2 tanks, a 20L and a 39H....cheap to a good home, with a stand that will accompany one of them thrown in. The stand is sold wood and fits both tanks. > > If interested, please contact me with reasonable offer and I will send pics and/or we can meet. > > Thanks for your interest! > > Cheers, > Clare >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55626	From: cobra427lady	Date: 12/9/2013
Subject: T5 HO Fixtures

Sorry, these fixtures are sold! Thanks to anyone who contacted me....have a good holiday season! Cheers, Clare

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55627	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/18/2013
Subject: Indoor/Outdoor Pond

Hi Everyone, I was sent these pictures earlier yesterday & I have to say I'm amazed as I know the area but knew nothing about this large pond-it is at the Railway Technical Centre in Derby, for those of you not from GB it is in the Midlands about 25 miles from my home in Leicester. My friend is on a course there & knowing I would be interested he sent these photos. It's very nice how the fish can come indoors-I bet the get spoiled rotten there! I did a bit of research & the place was built in the early 1960s so I woudl imagine the pond has been there from day one. I wonder if any of those fish have been there since then? My friend is back there next week so I have asked him to find out as much as possible. John*<o)))<* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55628	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/19/2013
Subject: API test kit question...

So, I have an API master test kit. My first question is, when do I absolutely need to do a water change? At what ammonia level, what nitrite level, and what nitrate level? The tank is not cycled, as last time I tested it for all three I got .25ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and some unknown level of nitrate. I thought it was around 40ppm but now I'm not quite sure. Secondly; Today I did a 50% or so water change. No more than 22 gallons. The tank is 55 gallons. Then, I did a nitrate test. It read about the same as before, at what I thought was 40ppm, or if that is true, it would have been closer to 80 last time. That does not seem right. I did 30% water changes every two weeks back before I got the test kit, the tank's not overstocked, and I only feed the fish once a day. (Fish are 5 tiger barbs, 2 bala sharks (one 3.5 inch, one 2 inch), and a full grown rainbow shark (4 inches.) So, it's not over stocked yet. I know it's coming due to my choice of fish, but so far it isn't. So, I did another water change the same size as the first about half an hour later. And, this time the reading appeared to be lighter, but it STILL appeared to be around the 40ppm mark. But, when I decided to hold the card and the tube up against a light, the nitrate looked to be closer to 20ppm, or even 10ppm. Even if I hold the tube an inch away from the card it still reads lower than it does if I hold it against the card and away from a light (but still in a well lit room.) Why? How should I do it? Something about it reading the same each time seems off. I did test the tap water, thinking that might be the problem but that test came out clean. So, where do I hold the tube? Against the card? Do I hold the card and the tube up to a light? Or do I hold the tube close to but not touching the card? Please, help. I think I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what for sure. This is my first time using tests, so I've got a little learning to do. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55629	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...

Hi Amber,  Don't panic-this is a classic situation that I'm sure many of us have been in before, you're not doing anything wrong. The fault is squarely with API for their lack of detailed info regarding reading their test results. Firstly your question when do I need to do a water change? The answer is before the levels get too high-that is over 40 with Nitrate & anything above zero with Nitrite & Ammonia-prevention is always better than cure. However-as your tank is not yet cycled you will still be having some readings of both nitrite & ammonia because your system has not yet built up a large enough colony of good bacteria to deal with the toxins & this is why you need to do [as you are] large partial water changes to dilute anything nasty in your tank. Discounting the readings for a moment-if you have a level of [say] 80ppm nitrate in your tank then by doing a 50% water change you will dilute that down to 40ppm. Now, the readings on the card don't agree with that fact-I know they don't appear to but that is because the colour graduation on the API card is absolutely terrible [despite it being one of the best tests around] because 40 looks just as dark as 80. I struggled with that for years & it wasn't helped by the fact that they used to advise you to hold the test tube a finger's breadth off  the card & now they just say hold it against the  card. Obviously if you hold it against the  card the colour refraction in a cylindrical tube will make it appear darker because there is no light getting through at the back-I don't think they thought that one through. I've also heard that it can take up to 24 hours after a water change for the true reading of NO3 to be apparent but I cannot substantiate this. While I'm ranting on the subject, the otherwise excellent Tetra O2 test falls down with similarly bad instructions as to how to properly read it so it's not just API. My personal way of reading the API NO3 test is simple-hold the tube a finger's breadth off the card with good neutral source of light such as daylight behind you. Artificial lighting can often play tricks. If it's yellow you have almost no organic waste, orange some waste but acceptable, red-do a water change! I do use API for NO3, NO2 [nitrite] & ammonia but I have always had similar problems with their pH colours so I prfer to use the Nutrafin [Hagen in the US I think] pH test which is a really well designed kit & has a colour that is unmistakeable through all the ranges. Finally-remember that whatever the card may read, changing a percentage of will water WILL ALWAYS dilute the toxin[s] by that amount. One of the members on here [I think it may be Charles] has an excellent saying on his posts: "Change as much water as you can, as often as you can" you won't go far wrong with that! Please let us know if you still have any concerns.   John<o)))< On 20 December 2013 01:50, <love_animals07@...> wrote:   So, I have an API master test kit. My first question is, when do I absolutely need to do a water change? At what ammonia level, what nitrite level, and what nitrate level? The tank is not cycled, as last time I tested it for all three I got .25ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and some unknown level of nitrate. I thought it was around 40ppm but now I'm not quite sure. Secondly; Today I did a 50% or so water change. No more than 22 gallons. The tank is 55 gallons. Then, I did a nitrate test. It read about the same as before, at what I thought was 40ppm, or if that is true, it would have been closer to 80 last time. That does not seem right. I did 30% water changes every two weeks back before I got the test kit, the tank's not overstocked, and I only feed the fish once a day. (Fish are 5 tiger barbs, 2 bala sharks (one 3.5 inch, one 2 inch), and a full grown rainbow shark (4 inches.) So, it's not over stocked yet. I know it's coming due to my choice of fish, but so far it isn't. So, I did another water change the same size as the first about half an hour later. And, this time the reading appeared to be lighter, but it STILL appeared to be around the 40ppm mark. But, when I decided to hold the card and the tube up against a light, the nitrate looked to be closer to 20ppm, or even 10ppm. Even if I hold the tube an inch away from the card it still reads lower than it does if I hold it against the card and away from a light (but still in a well lit room.) Why? How should I do it? Something about it reading the same each time seems off. I did test the tap water, thinking that might be the problem but that test came out clean. So, where do I hold the tube? Against the card? Do I hold the card and the tube up to a light? Or do I hold the tube close to but not touching the card? Please, help. I think I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what for sure. This is my first time using tests, so I've got a little learning to do. :)

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55630	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/20/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...

Okay, that's good. Then, with what you said, I'm down to about 20ppm (or maybe it's ten...) so I should be alright. I did not want to have to do another large water change, it's not easy taking one gallon at a time out and then putting it all back in again. If it was summer I'd use the garden hose to take the water out but it's far too cold out to do that. Anyway, thank you for the information. API's pH test won't even read my pH levels. I have to use the high range. The pH is a little high, about 8, but I don't know if I want to mess with it.  I've heard it can be difficult to adjust and none of the fish seem bothered by it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55631	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/22/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...

Hello again Amber,     Testing the pH-you are right to be using the high range kit [with the red label I think] as the regular test with the blue label is useless above 7.6. I am not certain what exact requirements your fish need as I only keep Goldfish so hopefully someone else can jump in & advise if I have left anything out.   John<o)))<   On 20 December 2013 12:16, <love_animals07@...> wrote:   Okay, that's good. Then, with what you said, I'm down to about 20ppm (or maybe it's ten...) so I should be alright. I did not want to have to do another large water change, it's not easy taking one gallon at a time out and then putting it all back in again. If it was summer I'd use the garden hose to take the water out but it's far too cold out to do that. Anyway, thank you for the information. API's pH test won't even read my pH levels. I have to use the high range. The pH is a little high, about 8, but I don't know if I want to mess with it.  I've heard it can be difficult to adjust and none of the fish seem bothered by it.

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55632	From: jett07002	Date: 12/23/2013
Subject: Re: API test kit question...

Hello. Your are right about the pH.  If you can use your source water and the fish do not seem bothered by it, you are better off.  I am not saying you shouldn't check your pH, but if you can, do not use the things used to change the pH of the water.   That would be like trying to change your blood pressure.  It is ALWAYS going to change when you try to "adjust" it from where it naturally is in your water source. A lot of hobbyists do try adjusting their pH, but it is a constant battle, and has to be monitored closely.  By doing this you are also leading the way to "pH drops" which is harmful to the fish. In short:  if you can use your natural water source without unnecessary adjustments, do so.  Less work for you and much better for the fish. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55633	From: barnsten	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] RE: API test kit question...

Not to mention having always watch and test your tank pH is going to take a lot of fun out of fish keeping 😉 Amber Berglund Sent from Windows Mail From: jett07002@... Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎December‎ ‎23‎, ‎2013 ‎7‎:‎55‎ ‎AM To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com   Hello. Your are right about the pH.  If you can use your source water and the fish do not seem bothered by it, you are better off.  I am not saying you shouldn't check your pH, but if you can, do not use the things used to change the pH of the water.   That would be like trying to change your blood pressure.  It is ALWAYS going to change when you try to "adjust" it from where it naturally is in your water source. A lot of hobbyists do try adjusting their pH, but it is a constant battle, and has to be monitored closely.  By doing this you are also leading the way to "pH drops" which is harmful to the fish. In short:  if you can use your natural water source without unnecessary adjustments, do so.  Less work for you and much better for the fish. joe t

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55634	From: Harry Perry	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Christmas.......

> However you celebrate it, around the > world..... > > I wish you Peace, Love and Happiness. > > Merry Christmas > > Harry >

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55635	From: pam andress	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Christmas.......

Merry Christmas everyone!   > However you celebrate it, around the > world..... > > I wish you Peace, Love and Happiness. > > Merry Christmas > > Harry > .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55636	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings

Click to play sound: Merry Xmas - Group Wishing Everyone Who Celebrates It --   A VERY MERRY   AND JOYOUS CHRISTMAS !       Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55637	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/24/2013
Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings

Thanks Ray,   Merry Christmas to all at Aquatic Life & thanks for your help this past year.   John<o)))< On 24 December 2013 23:29, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Click to play sound: Merry Xmas - Group Wishing Everyone Who Celebrates It --   A VERY MERRY   AND JOYOUS CHRISTMAS !       Ray

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55638	From: Farooq Ansari	Date: 12/25/2013
Subject: Re: Christmas.......

Merry Chirstmas and Happy New Year to all   Regards, Love Farooq   On Wednesday, 25 December 2013 4:16 AM, pam andress <pamandress23@...> wrote:   Merry Christmas everyone!   > However you celebrate it, around the > world..... > > I wish you Peace, Love and Happiness. > > Merry Christmas > > Harry > .

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55639	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/26/2013
Subject: Hi Noura

Hi Noura,   Not heard from you for some time & was hoping you are having a peaceful & safe Christmas.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55640	From: katgrrrrl99	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Fishless tank cycling??

I'd like to know how to do a fishless cycling with my new aquarium...How long till it's established and I can add fish??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55641	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Re: Fishless tank cycling??

To begin with, you'll need several test kits to monitor the nitrogen cycle through the time it takes to get established  -- which averages between 4 and 6 weeks, usually closer to this longer time frame.  But since you'll need test kits anyway to keep tabs on your aquarium maintenance, you may as well buy a master test kit containing these kits you'll first need to establish a cycle as it will be much less expensive than buying individual kits.   For the fish-less cycle that you want to build, you'll need to buy a bottle of household clear (NOT sudsy) 10% solution ammonia.  Add 3 - 5 drops of this clear ammonia per gallon to your aquarium.  This should give you an approximate ammonia test reading of between 4 and 5 ppm (parts per million) -- depending upon the size of the dropper/drops.  If your test reading doesn't indicate at least 4 ppm, just add a bit more until it does.   As the days progress, take tests for ammonia every day.  On the second day, the ammonia level may not have dropped much, if at all.  As soon as you see the ammonia level dropping, add enough more ammonia to the tank to maintain it at 4 - 5 ppm.  Each day, the bacteria will be able to use more and more ammonia converting it into nitrite, so you'll need to add a larger amount of ammonia to keep the level at 4 - 5 ppm.  At the end of ten to 12 days, the bacteria that convert nitrite into nitrate will start to multiply in earnest.  Start monitoring the nitrite level along with the ammonia level at this time.     After about 20 to 22 days into the cycle, you should begin to see the nitrite level dropping.  Keep adding enough ammonia to the tank to have it's level read about 4 ppm AFTER replacing the used ammonia, while the following day shows a zero level of ammonia.  This will tell you that there's now sufficient ammonia bacteria present to handle the wastes from a bioload of fish producing this same ammonia level.  If your nitrite level has now dropped to zero also, on this same day after you replaced the used ammonia, the tank should be cycled.   Your nitrate level will be quite high at this time -- too high to be able to add fish.  Before adding any fish, you'll need to do a large partial water change -- enough so that the nitrate level is at least below 40 ppm, and preferably much less.  Discontinue adding any ammonia before doing this PWC.  It's now safe to add your fish.  When you do, in order to keep the nitrifying bacteria fed so that they aren't starved off from lack of ammonia, try to add the larger portion of fish you plan on introducing to the tank at this time.   When adding any fish though, you'll need to acclimate them slowly to your water as the water they came from can be different.  Here, it's always best to test your water for its pH as well as the pH of the water they're coming in, so as to know how large of a difference between these two pH values there is.  The larger the difference, the more time you need to take to gradually add smaller amounts of your tank water to their water (done in a bucket if need be), after first equalizing the temperature by floating the fish bag for at least 20 minutes.  When transporting the fish from the store to your home -- keep them warm at all times.   Ray               In a message dated 12/30/2013 11:53:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, katgrrrrl99@... writes:   I'd like to know how to do a fishless cycling with my new aquarium...How long till it's established and I can add fish??

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55642	From: love_animals07	Date: 12/30/2013
Subject: Re: Fishless tank cycling??

I'll just add on a little;  If you have an Ace Hardware near you, they sell good ammonia. Janitorial strength with only ammonia and water. If you don't, the right kind of ammonia can be difficult to find. And, I usually wait for the ammonia to drop to 1ppm before I dose it back up for the first time, but it's all a matter of opinion. And, for a guide that has all of the information Ray has told you, I use The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling (goggle it if you are interested) . It has step by step information, as well as a little bit on fish care in general.  But, as I said before, Ray covered everything I had to say.Another thing I'd like to add: When you have completed the cycle, a   75-90% is what people use to get the nitrate levels down. And, until you get your fish, put 1ppm of ammonia into the tank each day so the bacteria does not die. If you have to wait several days before you get your fish, a 50% water change on the day you get the fish is usually a good idea. Amber

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55643	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Filter Update

Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55644	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update

Hi John,   Just caught your latest message on your filter progress, about 20 minutes after you posted it.  Consider your pics approved as I'll do that immediately.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55645	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update

Thank you Ray On 31 December 2013 13:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Just caught your latest message on your filter progress, about 20 minutes after you posted it.  Consider your pics approved as I'll do that immediately.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55646	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update

John,   A quick look at the Homepage indicates 0 (zero) New Photos in the last seven days, so it would seem your photos haven't been posted yet -- unless you've seen them.    This Neo-Yahoo is not recognizing every type of approval I'm sending them, so it's beginning to look like it won't take my approval of your pics, in which case another mod will have to attend to it.  I still can't stand this new format as it's completely useless sometimes.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 8:24:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Thank you Ray On 31 December 2013 13:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Just caught your latest message on your filter progress, about 20 minutes after you posted it.  Consider your pics approved as I'll do that immediately.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55647	From: SIMMONDS JOHN	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update

I know how you feel Ray, I just spent 10 minutes simply looking for how to access a member's recently posted comment on the photo albums-in the old style format you could find anything in an instant. Give me user Unfriendly websites anyday. Happy New Year to one & all!   John<o)))< On 31 December 2013 14:10, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   John,   A quick look at the Homepage indicates 0 (zero) New Photos in the last seven days, so it would seem your photos haven't been posted yet -- unless you've seen them.    This Neo-Yahoo is not recognizing every type of approval I'm sending them, so it's beginning to look like it won't take my approval of your pics, in which case another mod will have to attend to it.  I still can't stand this new format as it's completely useless sometimes.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 8:24:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Thank you Ray On 31 December 2013 13:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Just caught your latest message on your filter progress, about 20 minutes after you posted it.  Consider your pics approved as I'll do that immediately.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55648	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Filter Update

Hi John,   It still confounds me to try to understand why Yahoo would even want to change to a format that's so very unfriendly to use at best much of the time and virtually impossible to navigate most of the time.  It's as though they are encouraging the users to go to Facebook and give up their membership on any Yahoogroups they belong to.  Maybe they got paid handsomely by Mark Zuckerberg to make this awful change (LOL).   (it would really seem so)   Have a very Happy New Year too!   Ray        In a message dated 12/31/2013 6:57:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   I know how you feel Ray, I just spent 10 minutes simply looking for how to access a member's recently posted comment on the photo albums-in the old style format you could find anything in an instant. Give me user Unfriendly websites anyday. Happy New Year to one & all!   John<o)))< On 31 December 2013 14:10, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   John,   A quick look at the Homepage indicates 0 (zero) New Photos in the last seven days, so it would seem your photos haven't been posted yet -- unless you've seen them.    This Neo-Yahoo is not recognizing every type of approval I'm sending them, so it's beginning to look like it won't take my approval of your pics, in which case another mod will have to attend to it.  I still can't stand this new format as it's completely useless sometimes.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 8:24:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Thank you Ray On 31 December 2013 13:18, <sevenspringss1@...> wrote:   Hi John,   Just caught your latest message on your filter progress, about 20 minutes after you posted it.  Consider your pics approved as I'll do that immediately.   Ray   In a message dated 12/31/2013 7:56:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, simmonds.john@... writes:   Hi Ray,   I've just uploaded a photo of my wet/dry which should appear soon once it is moderated. As it is now with more bio balls at the top & new layer of eggbox dividing the bio balls from the pot scubbers which means the balls are all above the surface of the water now. I will gradually increase the amount of bio balls while at the same time decreasing the pot scrubbers until all the above-water area is taken up with bio balls. At the bottom is 3kg of ceramic hoops.   Happy New Year to everyone.   John<o)))<

Group: AquaticLife	Message: 55649	From: sevenspringss	Date: 12/31/2013
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

TO  ALL OF  OUR SO  VERY  VALUED  MEMBERS       Have  A  Very     HAPPY, HEALTHY & PROSPEROUS     NEW  YEAR !!!